Judging Freedom - Unjust Prosecutions with Roger Stone

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

Judge Napolitano discusses Republican politics and unjust prosecutions with the inimitable Roger Stone. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Save $80 with code SPACE80 at Talkspace.com. hello there everyone welcome to judging freedom judge andrew napolitano here my new podcast where i get to think whatever i want and say whatever i think and join friend and foe today a longtime friend a very well-known person in American political circles and in the media, one of the smartest people I know, and for me, a friend of over 40 years, a good friend of the former president. And he has suffered along with the president by people who hate both of them. We'll get to that in a moment. Roger Starr. Roger, what a pleasure. Thanks for joining us.

Judge, it's great to be back with you. You have graciously agreed to write the foreword for my new book. I owe you a manuscript, I know. But it's just great to be back on the airwaves with you. And I know you're going to have huge success on this platform because you are, without any question, the single most articulate advocate for freedom out there. Perhaps you and Tucker Carlson, two of my heroes, absolute heroes. Well, thank you, Roger. It's very kind and very generous of you to say that. I want to begin our conversation with your thoughts on 2024. Is Donald Trump the appropriate messenger, are Mike Pompeo and Chris Christie serious when they

have begun to talk to intimates about running against the former president? Does the Republican Party stand for anything other than what the former president wants them to stand for? Well, I hate to answer your question with a question, but are we going to have a free, fair, honest, and transparent election in 2024? See, I'm not sure we did in 2020. I'm also not sure that we didn't. We had a record number of anomalies and irregularities, but no court, no legislature, no honest broker, as it were, no honest forum was willing to even examine that. When the fake news media says to you, no, there's absolutely no evidence, well, then you know it's a lie because every election has some level of voter fraud. It's human nature. Now, it's possible that the voter fraud was not

sufficient to have changed the results of the election, but it's also overwhelmingly possible that it was. We could just never get a fair hearing anyplace. There was never any real examination of the facts. And you have to be concerned about that, particularly if you're Donald Trump. Now, to go to your other question, let's be very clear. At the grassroots of this party, we are the America First Party. The nomination of Donald Trump was the hostile takeover of the party, and the country club elites who had run it previously, mostly for the purposes of lining

their own pockets, they're gone. They're not coming back. Anybody who thinks things are going to go back to the way they were are wrong. Our next nominee will be a populist conservative who supports the America First agenda. Donald Trump, I think, has earned this nomination if he wants it, despite the fact that he made mistakes, largely because he's not a politician, and I think because he had no idea how deep the swamp runs. Is he, Roger, the best messenger? Because for all of his rhetorical skills and ability to generate overwhelming enthusiasm amongst the base, he also generates overwhelming hatred on the other side. Well, I guess the problem is, tell me somebody who would be better. Mike Pompeo is a deep state

actor. If you read the extraordinary pieces in Yahoo last week about his plans to assassinate Julian Assange, no one can take him serious. I don't care what his social media says. He went to Yale. That's a disqualifier right there. He also went to West Point. And it's funny you should say that. And I'm glad you raised the issue of Assange. Was it Pompeo who was the head of the CIA at the time they concocted the plans to murder Julian Assange? Well, according to the piece I read last week in Yahoo, now Mike Isikoff, who is himself a Russian asset, or I should say is himself an intelligence asset, not a reporter, a guy who pushed the Steele dossier relentlessly. But he had a very telling piece. Pompeo goes public and he says WikiLeaks and Julian Assange are foreign actors. No, no judge, they're not.

There's no evidence to support that. That's John Brennan's cracked fever dream is what that is. Well, you and I both believe that Julian Assange is a hero, a hero to transparency and to the freedom of speech. The government has no business prosecuting him for that and concocting this tortuous environment in which he's been confined in the most hellish prison that the Brits have. I had hoped that President Trump, as he pardoned you, and you know, many of us lobbied for that, would have pardoned Julian Assange, but he hadn't. I think Assange is going to be freed

very soon. But back to Pompeo. I pray that's right. But it was Mike Pompeo who convinced Donald Trump not to pardon Assange. Mike Pompeo is not who you think he is, just as Ron DeSantis is not who you think he is. So Ron DeSantis has a statewide mask mandate ban. You're talking about the governor of Florida, which is where you live. Right. So he has said with great fanfare, we are banning mask mandates in the public schools. 1.6 million, probably 1.4 million students in the state and the largest counties are still required to wear a mask because the school boards are openly thumbing their nose at the governor. The governor of Florida has unlimited power to remove them with the stroke of a pen, but he doesn't do it. Then we have 1 million phantom voters on our voting rolls. No, the fake news media gets it wrong

again. I'm not talking about an audit of the last election. I'm talking about our current voting rolls. A phantom voter is defined as someone who does not exist. They're deceased. They moved out of state. They were fraudulent to begin with. Why are they still on the voting rolls in Florida? Why don't you ask Governor Ron DeSantis and his secretary of state, Miss Lee? He said we have the cleanest, most honest election we just had. I don't think so. is heavily front and center, or not front and center because it's below the radar, in the deep state. Why would he have concocted something and why would it have been leaked that he was planning to murder Assange? Well, that's an excellent question. I mean, clearly he is part and parcel of the very same group that tried to take Donald Trump down as president. I don't know whether he was put under the ether by the guys at Langley.

But again, I point out he went to Yale. Ron DeSantis went to Yale, the governor of Florida, Yale and Harvard. Those are disqualifiers as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're stupid. Legacies, I think they call them. Is Princeton a disqualifier, Roger? Well, it depends on how you got in.

No, my point is that these people are elites is what I'm saying. Yes. I mean, I don't think everybody who ever went to Yale or Harvard is an elite. Only 99.9% of them. My point, I guess, is that Mike Pompeo is not a viable America first candidate. Ron DeSantis, who talks the talk in a very effective way but on issue after issue does not walk the walk i don't think he's actually an effective uh america first candidate he's also a terrible campaigner judge i've been in this business 40 years you have to look people in the eye and you have to say thank you when a guy gives

you a half million dollars you're usually supposed to say thank you. Ron DeSantis is allergic to people. He doesn't like people. He doesn't like to mix with people. Whereas Trump is one of the greatest campaigners that ever lived. The former governor of New Jersey, whom you and I know, Chris Christie, is telling friends that he has each of his feet in the two camps, the pro-Trump part of the Republican Party and the anti-Trump part of the Republican Party, and that he is the only human being or the best human being to unify those two wings of the party

and to present a competent populist message that will appeal across the board do you buy this well first of all it's very clear to me that governor ron desantis is taking dietary tips from governor uh christy at this point but second but secondarily uh that's a joke i mean first of all he's a failed govern. He most certainly can't carry New Jersey today. You could speak to that better than I do. His book, Attacking Donald Trump, demonstrates the level of his disloyalty. Loyalty is the most important thing you have in politics or in life, for that matter. Chris Christie has, I have a better chance of being the Republican nominee than Chris Christie. You and I have always been looking

at Republican nominees from the libertarian side of them. Is there any libertarian on the scene? Maybe not as libertarian as Ron Paul, but do any of these people have a libertarian streak within them that would draw you and me and a lot of the people watching us now, Roger? You know, it's very sad. If I could just wave a wand, I'd make Rand Paul president. He would be, on policy, he would be an excellent president. He completely understands the deep state and the intelligence agencies and the national security apparatus. He understands the generals in the Pentagon and their desire for endless war, regardless of whether our inherent national interests are present. I mean, my politics, I guess, would be closer to his than anyone in the country. I don't think in the television age, just like Chris Christie is not a television candidate, unless you've got one of those big screen TVs, I guess.

I don't think that Rand Paul is a candidate for the television age. Now, Rand Paul would be a superb vice president, and that's kind of where I'd go if I were the Republican nominee. I don't see anybody else in this list of wannabes who can generate the kind of enthusiasm, the kind of money, the kind of momentum that Trump can do. Is Trump polarizing? Yes. But there's not a candidate we can nominate who won't be polarizing if they're running on a conservative agenda. I think that Rand Paul generated a lot of goodwill amongst conservatives and libertarians for the thrashing he gave to Dr. Fauci. I mean, perhaps only another

physician could talk the talk the way he did, but Fauci was bloodied and bowed, in my opinion, when Senator Paul was finished with him. This is a matter rather close to my heart. What was I charged with, Judge? Lying to Congress, despite the fact that no misstatement i made to congress was either material or relevant or hit any underlying crime yet dr fauci lied before congress ran paul called him out on it fauci actually called him a liar called a member of the u.s senate a liar when it's very clear based on the documents released several days later by nih that then it's Fauci who is a liar. So here's my question for you. When will 29 heavily armed FBI agents wearing full SWAT gear and night goggles surround his home at six o'clock in the morning to take him into custody for the first time

nonviolent, in his case, probably second time, nonviolent crime of lying to Congress? You are referring, of course, or alluding, of course, to the Gestapo tactics that were used to arrest you. Your case has a happy outcome, but you suffered egregiously for having done nothing, in my view, whatsoever unlawful. But Bob Mueller and crew sent an army, including a boat and two helicopters. Oh, and by the way, a CNN camera crew, along with the 29 heavily armed SWAT team personnel to arrest you, even though they knew who your lawyer was, they knew where you lived, they knew you're nonviolent. You have no criminal record. You didn't have any weapons.

All they had to do was say to your lawyer, Mr. Stone's going to be indicted. Can can he visit us tomorrow? But instead they put on this big show. Your point is that that would never happen to Dr. Fauci because he's part of the elite mentality that went after you. Here's the other part that, Judge, I don't think even, you. On November 3rd, 2020, this pastaks collaboration, or the theft and publication of John Podesta's emails. Mueller further opined that even if they had found such evidence, which they didn't, they had concluded that none of it would have been illegal. Wow. I did not know this, nor did I see this anywhere in the media. You're talking about two days ago. No, this would have been the election, the presidential election.

You're talking about a year ago and I didn't know this. Well, don't look for it at CNN. Don't search for it in the archives of the New York Times or the Washington Post. It was carried precisely by two outlets, BuzzFeed, who brought the lawsuit that disgorged these documents. And even they had to admit that I was, quote, vindicated, and the Washington Examiner. No other publication in the country carried this news. It is indeed entire vindication on my part. But the news outlets who for two years said I was a traitor, a Russian spy, a collaborator with the Russians, none of them bothered to correct. You were convicted of lying to Congress in a profoundly unfair trial with a jury foreperson who was convinced of your guilt prior to the start of the trial. We know that from her emails.

Presided over by a judge who hated the president, hated you, and hated many of the people that are colleagues and friends of the two of you. The president, in a constitutional act of mercy, pardoned you. When the Biden administration came into office, obviously they weren't happy with the pardon. What did they do to you? Have they brought litigation against you? Yes, they're actually have filed a civil action against my wife and I regarding our 2007 and 2008 taxes. Wait a minute. 2007 and 2008. Yes. Talking about 14 years ago.

Yes, absolutely. Because you see, they bankrupted me. I had to pay for my legal defense and therefore I had to stop making payments on my past taxes. I paid them half a million dollars in the months prior to my trial. But at some point, I ran out of money and I had to stop making payments. But the most disappointing thing about my trial was the fact that Steve Bannon was the government's chief witness against me and that he perjured himself at my trial. If you compare his sworn testimony before the House Intelligence Committee and his sworn testimony on the stand at my trial, he's asked the exact

same question. Did you communicate with Roger Stone regarding WikiLeaks or Julian Assange in 2016? Before the House Committee, he says, no, never. Before my trial, he says, in every telephone conversation we had, we considered Stone our liaison with WikiLeaks. That's perjury. Even Jonathan Turley, who read both transcripts, concluded that he had to have lied one place or the other. Now, remembering that I was charged for what? Lying to Congress. Right, right.

When is Mr. Bannon going to be charged? That's my question. Well, he's probably not going to be charged for lying, but I do believe that he is a target by the Manhattan D.A. for the same crime for which the president pardoned him since whatever he has alleged to have done in New York City. And I'm not sure what it is. It was some financial crime. It triggers both the potential for both a federal and a state prosecution. But has there been or have there been copycat litigation, stated differently, have people sued you, threatened to sue you, as sort of a surrogate for suing the former president of the United States? Well, first of all, almost every one of the litigations against me is baseless,

groundless, unsubstantiated. None of them can hold water. Again, they're not legal pleadings. They're press releases. They don't cite any evidence or proof. They're just opinion. In one particular suit, I'm being sued with the president regarding January 6th. The funders of this lawsuit are lawyers for civil rights under law, a Soros-backed group of crackpots.

So they're suing you and former President Trump. On behalf of their clients are six Capitol Hill police officers who say that we conspired to deny them their civil rights and we endangered them. Well, I conspired with no one. I never urged anyone to hurt anyone else anywhere on January 6th or any other place or time. Nice try. But it's the headline, Judge. You know that the idea is to defame you, to generate negative press. Roger Stone sued in January. I wasn't at the Ellipse. I wasn't at the Capitol. I never left my hotel grounds. There is no one who can testify contrary to this. I know nothing about it. It was a boneheaded thing for people to do. It looks more and more to me like a honeypot, looks to me like a setup. The government seeks very hard to hide that, but Tucker Carlson, I think in his brilliant new documentary, makes a very good case. If you follow the actual investigative journalism at revolver.com

by dr darren baity i think he's proven time and time again the government's involvement uh in entrapping people to to trespass well roger even the new york times has discovered a member of the proud boys who was an undercover agent for the feds and they share he he shared his his uh uh real-time texts with his FBI handlers and the federal prosecutors are telling a federal judge a version of events starkly different from what this Proud Boy person trusted by the Proud Boys unknown to them that he was also an undercover agent, and trusted by the FBI. So the government possesses a human being who is in the middle of this melee

who gives an entirely different version to government agents than the government is telling a judge. Now the government is obliged to make this person available to the defendants and they haven't done so. Well, this is par for the course. The government had an obligation to tell my attorneys that Robert Mueller had found no evidence against me. That was specifically withheld by the judge. In other words, the prosecutors in my case wanted to give us none of Mueller's report. My lawyers moved to get all of it. She said, I will read it myself and determine what you can have.

Everything she gave us was innocuous, but she hid the most important fact. You can't lie about something you don't know about. You can't lie without a motive. You have to have a motive to lie. What would have been my motive? What was I lying to cover up? The judge said to me in my sentencing, you have been convicted of lying to cover up for Donald. No, your honor. That's not what I was charged with and not what I was convicted of. It was the most egregious

Soviet style show trial in American history. And I have to say this now because it's important. You were one of the few voices out there publicly pointing out all of the irregularities and illegal nature of my trial and calling for justice. And this is something I will never forget. Now, I do need to buy you a necktie, but that's a different question. Roger, I'm in my house. You know, God love you for all of the people that are after you and all the things they have done to you and all the bankrupting they did to you. You haven't lost your feistiness or your ability to explain common sense ideas so that everybody can understand it. Will you come back on this show?

Anytime. Look, let me just wrap this up by saying this. This entire experience caused me to redeem myself with Jesus Christ, caused me to re-examine my faith and to confess my sins and get right with the Lord. And you cannot imagine the burden that that removes from your shoulder. I'm protected by God now. I'm here to do his will. The famous evangelist, Kim Clement, prophesied that when the stone is released, the giant will fall, he says. The Lord will take down the giant with a simple stone. Remember that name, he says. I don't know what God's will is, Judge, but I do know that

I will do it, that I'm having my own problems with the Catholic Church because our current Pope is a communist. But that's a whole separate question. Roger, you're one of a kind. It's always a pleasure. Thank you very much for joining us. We'll have you back soon. In fact, I can't wait for you to come back. I look forward to it. All the best.