Judging Freedom - U.S. Sending More $$ to Ukraine w/Tony Shaffer fmr CIA

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, July 24, 2023. I am back from my brief vacation, and thank you very, very much for all the welcome back emails and texts and comments that you've been sending. But back to the real world, and Tony Schaefer joins us now. Tony, always a pleasure. Welcome back to the show. Good to be here, Joe. Before we show you some clips of President Biden claiming that Ukraine has won the war and the Russians have lost, and General or Secretary of Defense Austin saying Ukraine is going to join NATO. What would happen if Ukraine joined NATO? There must be a reason that Ukraine was not admitted to NATO last week when Zelensky was there begging for admission. Well, there's three reasons they weren't admitted. First, I think anybody who recognizes the fundamental politics of Europe understands that there's too many issues still outstanding

regarding Ukraine that are, some are unspoken. I mean, there are issues with corruption. There's issues with the democracy. I mean, come on, Judge. Zelensky himself just called off elections. That's not much of a democracy if you go down the path of the Third Reich and start, oh, we don't need elections. And I know that's going to draw some fire for that comparison, but I'm just telling you, you don't want to stop elections. Lincoln didn't stop elections during the Civil War, just saying. So I think that's a bad sign. So that's one factor. Second factor is the corruption. The basic fundamental corruption of Ukraine is extraordinarily, I don't even know how to describe it. It was the most corrupt nation in Europe up until the war started.

Then all of a sudden, they're all good guys. As I've said several times, both nations, Russia, Ukraine are cut from the same cloth. What we have now, as I've said, is a combination of Tony Soprano with a country and the hunt for Red October, if you can kind of put that together in your head. These guys are not good guys. They're oligarchs. They have the oligarchs in the Ukraine side. They have the oligarchs in the Russian side. And I feel sorry for the people of Ukraine because there's no true democracy there. And I just don't think they figured it out. Third, and I think most importantly, Article 5, the moment Ukraine becomes a NATO nation, we are obligated, the United States and the other NATO nations, to respond to an attack.

An attack on one is an attack on all, and these responded to. And nobody that I know wants to go to war. I mean, well, that's not true. People I know of want to go to war. Nobody I know in my circle wants to go to war. And I don't think most of NATO. I know the Germans don't wants to go to war. And I don't think most of NATO, I know the Germans don't want to go to war. I think other folks in the union don't want to go to war. I think there's a,

that would be a, and by the way, I think that would shatter NATO. If they did that, NATO would basically say, I can no longer support being a member. I no longer support Article 5, which ends the alliance. So I think people understood the moment you say yes to Ukraine, you say no to NATO. And I don't know, I'm just saying, I'm not sure if that's a bad idea at this point, but that's what the reality would be. Right. Here's Secretary of Defense Austin. So this is 10 days ago, right after Vilnius being asked point blank, should Ukraine join NATO? So you have no doubt that after the war, Ukraine will become a member of NATO? I have no doubt that that will happen.

And we heard just about all the countries in the room say as much. And I think that was reassuring to President Zelensky. He didn't sound very credible to me. But what would Russia do if Ukraine became a member of NATO? I mean, this is like declaring World War III. It is. And I think that's the issue. The Budapest Accord, I believe is the name of it, from 94, when the separation of Ukraine and Russia was finalized, creating Ukrainian independence. The agreement was no nukes in Ukraine, nukes go back to Russia. And then on our side, British included, no eastward expansion of NATO. So those agreements have long since been broken. And I've, I for one, I've always said, you need to recognize, even if you don't agree with it,

the fact that the Russians have legitimate issues, traditions, and cultural concerns that go back generations. So the moment you start, you know, it's like I was talking to one of my colleagues who was a very staunch conservative yesterday about this. And it's like, well, we would never accept Mexico becoming a Soviet satellite. Probably not. Probably that would have been a bridge too far. And we would have not stood for Mexico becoming essentially an organization that, a country that responded to Soviet Union during the Cold War. I don't know why people think it's different with them. The Russians have a lot of issues that go back generations. So I think

ignoring those issues, Judge, is part of what's brought us to this point in time is in the moment you put another nation, NATO nation on the border of Russia. Yeah. I think Russia is going to look at how it can be, become more aggressive and pushing things back. They have an inherent paranoia. I'm not here to, to, to, to, to support it. I'm just telling you, they have an inherent paranoia that's going to result in a global war.

If you continue to push them. Well, isn't there paranoia rational when Jim Baker and George H.W. Bush said NATO won't move one inch eastward and it's now 800 miles eastward? And you're right. Think of how we would react if Mexico became a satellite of Russia or of China. Right. And they had missiles and they're aimed at Dallas and Miami. How would we react? I'm completely with you.

And it's like our side, this cultural projection. It's like, oh, well, we're the good guys. You know, I don't trust our good guys. I've seen the good guys from the inside. Those, they ain't so good. So I, I think we need to recognize that, that left to, uh, Western devices, Victoria Nuland, uh, Tony Blinken and Biden, because I think he doesn't have any ability to, to, to discern or push back would actually push for a war. And there's, there's some great scenes in Dr. Strange Love.

I love that movie where, you know, I recommend to people younger than us, way younger than us to go watch that for the first time, if they haven't, that, that inherent idea that somehow a war is winnable, a nuclear war is winnable. Also Fail Fail Safe, another great movie, Fail Safe, the original. Both of them. George Clooney's version is good, too. But people need to go back and look at some of the obtuse rationalization made by certain leaders during the Cold War that we could win a nuclear war. It's the same thinking now by Newland and the knuckleheads who are trying

to get us into war. You mentioned a few minutes ago a friend of yours who was a conservative. I won't ask you who it is because we have a lot of mutual friends and it might be someone that I know as well. Very likely. What do conservatives believe is being accomplished for the United States of America by the massive introduction of wealth and American wealth and American arms into a place like Ukraine? Well, this is where that conversation started about what is the expectation of any practical gain out of the investment?

And my answer was nothing. Not a darn thing. I know. I know you and I are on the same page as are the people watching us now. And that's my point. Conservative Republicans, people who have rationally voted the way we have, how do they answer that? So I think that's where it's going. I think a lot of folks are recognizing now because for better or for worse, the last year, the mainstream media has been lying. They've been carrying the party line in the water for Zelensky and Biden. And a lot of folks are now recognizing that, oh, yeah, this offensive is not going so well as everybody told us it would.

Oh, yeah. By the way, there's no real gain. So I think people fundamentally, just like the Russia collusion narrative, Judge, I mean, I get tired of trying to tell people, you need to stop listening to the mainstream media. Just stop. You need to pull away and go to sources you trust, because the mainstream media's motivation is based on on on profit, not on reality. And so the reality in this case was the Russians have the numbers. The Ukrainians don't. And I'm not taking sides. So I'm just so I think the biggest issue at this point when we're talking about this and I was going through this this with my friend who's been a big Ukrainian supporter, that there's no there there. There's no,

even if the Ukrainians somehow pull it off, then what? What if they get, what if they're somehow by some miracle able to take back Bakhmut, able to take back Crimea? Do you really believe first off the Russians are going to accept that as an outcome? I don't think so. Secondly, are you then prepared to go in and help the Ukrainians occupy that space, putting NATO or U.S. lives at risk to defend that territory? I don't think so. So the idea is, then what? Okay, you do this, then what? But I don't think there's going to be a then what, because I don't think there's going to be a then what because I don't think they're ever going to get there.

I think I've said this publicly and I'm going to say it again here for clarity. I think this looks a lot like there's parallels to the Battle of Kursk during World War II where the Soviets were able to kind of goad the Germans, the Nazis into basically overplaying their offensive hand. Basically at the end of the Battle of Kursk, this was in 43 July, by the way, I guess, there's kind of a parallel there, too. The Germans had great intentions of taking back great areas of the Soviet Union. And the

Russians just watched them. It's like, okay, come on, come on. A lot of delays. Hitler kept delaying the offensive. Not that I'm comparing Hitler to Zelensky, just saying. Hitler kept delaying. And then by the time it came, the Russians were prepared for it and just let the Germans uselessly throw their energy into it. Did the Soviets lose a lot of folks? They did. Are the Russians losing folks now? They are. But in the end, the Nazis had nothing left. And from there on and during World War II, the Nazis were never able to win another battle on the Eastern Front. I see the same thing here potentially happening. And I think this is where, again, people who listen to the rational thoughts of strategists like Doug McGregor, Danny Davis. You know, I like to believe I'm pretty rational at times.

We're trying to say, just look at what's going on. Don't pay any attention to the propaganda. Just examine the facts for what they are. All right. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll run a clip of President Biden for Tony to comment on, saying that Putin has lost the war right after this. Hi, everyone. Judge Napolitano here, and the verdict is in. Everywhere I go, people are complaining how expensive things are and how their stomachs turn every time they get their IRA statement. Listen, many experts are predicting a recession. When, how, where, how bad, who knows? But why wait and see? Do what I did and learn how adding gold to your portfolio can help. Now, you all know that I am a paid spokesperson for Lear Capital, but I believe

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Back with Tony Schaefer. So here's the president. Well, I'll let you evaluate what he said. The issue of whether or not this is going to keep Putin from continuing to fight. The answer is Putin's already lost the war. Putin has a real problem. How does he move from here? What does he do? And so the idea that there's going to be what vehicle is used, he could end the war tomorrow. He could just say, I'm out. But what agreement is ultimately reached depends upon Putin and what he decides to do. But there is no possibility of him winning the war in Ukraine. He's already lost that war. Imagine if even if, anyway, he's already lost that war. An embarrassment at an international function that was in Helsinki 10 days ago. But can he

possibly believe or even understand what he's saying, Tony? So, yeah, I think I'm one of those who've been calling for his impeachment for a long time. I think it's long overdue. The simple fact that he would say something that's so completely detached from reality is a grave concern. Anybody who studies the war for any length of time understands the dynamics. And Putin is not in any jeopardy, either domestically. I think the whole Purgosian thing was designed in some ways. Maybe he was aware that was going to happen and was able to use that as Stalin did to kind of purge people who were disloyal. I mean, as I've said before,

Judge, you can take the man out of the Soviet. You can't take the Soviet out of the man. And I think they're still using Soviet tactics to govern. So I think that's one aspect. Second aspect is the numbers. The Russian economy is on wartime footing. They are outproducing the West, the whole West, by about 10 to 1 across the board. And plus, they have found alternate sources of high-tech gadgetry, Iran, China. They're in no danger. And they've worked around the sanctions. So I just don't see how Biden has any ability if he's any copacetic at all. Copacementus, what is it? What is that term? Is it Latin? He's like he's non-copacementus.

Right, right. He is not. And because that's in control of his own brain. Yeah. So someone told him to say that. And it's Victoria Nuland and Tony, Tony Blinken, which I think they are criminally, you know, liable for the stupidity of what she he's exhibiting. Why do you think Biden should be impeached? All right. Three reasons. First, Afghanistan, there were, there was ample warning and military decisions made to essentially allow for the fall of that country. You and I agree. We worked with Walter Jones on this. It was time to get out. I, we should have get up now, but not with not leaving the fourth largest military on the planet there for the Taliban to basically use or sell, which they did. And a lot of us saw this coming.

It's like, you know, you need to figure out a way to get everything out. Tony Zinni did a review for us, for the United States, kind of under the radar for Walter Jones. You're talking about General Zinni. General Zinni, Tony Zinni went over. I was asked to bring him in, and I did. Walter Jones and Representative McGovern from Massachusetts basically worked bipartisan to convince Tony to go. I helped him. And Tony figured out, this was back in 12, 12 or 13.

Right. I want you to get to the reasons for impeaching Biden. Well, I'm getting there. I'm just telling you that basically that we knew that there was going to be a long haul to get us out of Afghanistan. People knew that. And I'm not saying we shouldn't get out. I'm saying we should have taken our stuff with us. We should not have enriched the enemy. That's my point. Biden did. Secondly, Biden has done things to, by my account, taken bribes from Ukraine. There's no doubt at this point, part of the reason we have such an aggressive Ukrainian strategy and support, not strategy, there's no strategy, support, is because I think Biden was bribed. I think Biden took upwards of, at least on the books now, $17 million, probably more. And I think that's adequate right there. Those two points are

adequate justification for his removal from office. Let me push back. Not that I'm a Biden lover by any stretch, but the president can only be impeached for something done in office, which would preclude your second reason. And the president can't be impeached, sadly, for incompetence or wrecking the military. He can only be impeached for treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors committed while he's in office. What's the third reason? Well, the third reason to me is the complete violation of the Constitution multiple times. I don't know if that raises your level of concern, but he's done it with the student loan issue. He's done it with, I believe, exceeding his authority that's gone to the Supreme Court several times relating to, I can't remember off the top of my head because I'm not a legal scholar, sorry. But there's several things that have gone to the Supreme Court that has been gone against him. So I think that his constant use of executive authority oversteps

his ability. And one question for you, Judge, before we go, I thought he could be impeached for things he did as vice president because that was a high office. So to me, Agnew, Spiro Agnew was removed from office based on his activities as mayor of Baltimore and governor of Maryland. So I'd- Well, Spiro Agnew resigned as part of a NOLO contender plea because they had to get him out of the way before they were going to get rid of Nixon and put somebody in there compatible to them,

which turned out to be Jerry Ford. Let's switch gears back to where we started. I want you to watch Admiral Kirby doing his best Baghdad Bob imitation, talking to my friend and former colleague, Martha McCallum at Fox News. What they really need are the four A's, artillery, ammunition, air defense, and armor tanks. And on all four of those, we have provided an extraordinary amount of support at, quite frankly, unprecedented speed. Those are the four capabilities they need most. And if you look at the packages, just we just announced one

yesterday, and there's going to be one here in coming days, you'll see that we are really trying to get them those kinds of capabilities. Now, look, the F-16s will get there probably towards the end of the year, but it's not our assessment that the F-16s alone would be enough to turn the tide here. What they really need more than anything of all those 4As is artillery. And that's why the president made a difficult decision to provide cluster munitions as a bridging solution as we build up our production capacity of normal, conventional artillery rounds. That's what they're—they're firing thousands of them a day uh it's really a gunfight two points one he said turn the tide which is the first time i've heard him even intimate that the tide needed to be turned that

the russians are prevailing something rational people understand right and secondly the ukrainians need uh artillery we've run out of artillery to give them because we've given away so much. So we gave them cluster bombs instead. Which are technically a violation of most countries. And in my experience, we've talked about already, it's not a good idea. Judge, do you remember during World War II D-Day when Eisenhower first sent in the artillery and put them on the beach and then he waited about two days and then he sent in the troops. And then after that, they sent in the B-17s to bomb the rear area. And then after that, they really allowed them to have Jeeps for

the men to kind of run around. Remember how this was laid out over six months? They did the Normandy invasion over six months. I'm being completely a smart ass here. That's my point. Eisenhower hit them with everything we had on June 6th, 1944, an overwhelming use of military force, the biggest armada, the biggest air assault ever to that date, everything at once. It was a strategy based on the knowledge of how the Germans processed information and then knowing where their weaknesses were. That's war. What John Kirby is laying out is the same basic format of throwing money at something and hoping for the best that screwed up our education system across the board. Just throwing money at it. No strategy. How much longer does this last, Tony? Well, it can't last indefinitely. I think, look, it's gone past my prediction.

I thought we'd be done at least into talks by now. I thought June would have gotten us to talks based on what I thought would have been people, rational people in the room. I think it's going to go another three months at the current kind of issue. The next big issue, I think, is going to be the fall rains. The rains are going to have an effect on the battle space. I don't think either side is going to want that. I think the Ukrainians, because they are not doing well, just a little note.

I mean, they publicly acknowledge 20% loss of Bradley's. I think it's closer to 30. Every Bradley maintainer on the planet is heading to Poland to help recover these things. We're sending more stuff. I think they're going to do this piecemeal battle of curse nonsense, probably till October. Unfortunately. Got it.

Tony Schaefer. Always a pleasure, my dear. Thank you for joining us. Welcome back to the show. We'll see you again. Good to be here. Thank you.

Where's we get it. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. I'm out.