Judging Freedom - Who is winning Hamas_Israeli war? Intel Roundtable w/ Ray McGovern & Larry Johnson

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Who is winning Hamas_Israeli war? Intel Roundtable w/ Ray McGovern & Larry Johnson See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, November 3rd, 2023. It's time for our Intelligence Community Roundtable with my dear friends Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern. Ray, I want to start with you. What kind of a fool is Secretary Blinken making of himself since the Israeli-Hamas conflagration began on October 7th? Well, to those who know something about the background, the fact that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict did not start in a vacuum, as the Secretary General of the UN has said, he's making a fool of himself. For those like President Herzog, who has the lead up in the New York Times today, he's just reaffirming, reaffirming U.S. total support for Israel. He's against Hamas violence. He's against he's against terrorism.

But he's for genocide. As the Israelis are, as they openly admit they are. So I don't know what Blinken thinks that he can achieve in Israel today and tomorrow, which Biden didn't already waste the opportunity to achieve. But this is going to get worse, and it's going to get still worse if the American people continue to be deceived by the stakes here and about who is in charge of the genocide now, not the terrorism. As we speak, Secretary Blinken, Ray, is in Israel trying to persuade Prime Minister Netanyahu to order a pause. I guess that's a euphemism for a temporary

ceasefire so that humanitarian aid can be brought into the people that they're about to kill. While he's there, the Prime Minister said, no deal. Surprise, Ray? Well, let's have a pause in the genocide. I mean, does that sound strange to you? Let's have a pause in the genocide to let some food in and so forth. 50 trucks, whereas 500 was the regular rule here. I mean, how bad does it have to get? You know, it wouldn't be such a surprise if Netanyahu himself hadn't told some constituents 22 years ago, it's on tape, America is easily moved, 80% of Americans support us. This is ridiculous, says Netanyahu. Well, let's see if it's still 80%. I think as the carnage continues and as the dangers arise from surrounding countries, Arabs, Turkey, and Iran, there may be a sort of

sense come into the American consciousness, but it's not going to come from the major media. Larry, who's winning the PR war here? Israel, Hamas, the U.S.? Yeah, Hamas and the Palestinians are winning it. It is appalling what has just happened today. The Israeli defense forces attacked civilians standing outside the al-Shifa hospital, killed several. And then there was a column of civilians walking and in vehicles that were going south as requested by the Israelis. And they were civilians. They were not carrying weapons. They were bombed and killed. Their bodies are littered over the highway. Now, these images keep coming out day after day. I'd add to that images of a dead Palestinian child cut in half, her father holding her and wailing.

Then another child being pulled out. Looks like they're wearing white flower makeup because they've been buried in this concrete. These images are continuing to emerge. They're not manufactured. They're not ginned up by artificial intelligence. They're real. They reflect the fact that the Israelis are killing civilians. In practical speak, there's no difference between what the Nazis did to the Jews at Babi Yar,

where they lined them up, stripped them naked, shot and murdered them, and what the Israeli Defense Force now is doing to these Palestinians. It's horrific. How soon do you think there'll be a reaction to this, Ray, from the countries around there, the King of Jordan, the President of Egypt, the President of Turkey, the mullahs that run Iran? When I say reaction, I mean military reaction, something that is intended to put a stop to this. Yeah, well, before I comment on that, let me just add a little piece to what Larry said. Go right ahead. Here is President Herzog, a lead op-ed in the New York Times today, saying it's really Hamas that's blamed for the carnage

occurring when Palestinian children get blown apart. Okay, here's his words. Civilian casualties are rather encouraged by Hamas in order to draw global sympathy and blunt Israel's response. Wow, you know what that reminds me of? That reminds me of General Petraeus when several children were killed in Afghanistan and he went to President Karzai and he said, you know, I think that they faked that. I think those parents killed their own children

just to give us a black eye. That's the kind of, there's no adjective I want to use on air about this, but it shows a complete disregard for conscience and for morality. And it's got to stop, and it's got to stop soon. The slaughter that Larry described, and I think it was a fair description, can only be tolerated for so long, given the Arab and Palestinian populations of the countries around Israel. So my question is, you know, what happens next? The American Secretary of State, himself Jewish, takes three days to beg Prime Minister Netanyahu for a pause. We can talk about what that means. It's insufficient, obvious. He doesn't even want to stop to allow five trucks in, let alone 50 or 500, says no to his face. The slaughter continues. President Erdogan is riling

up a million and a half people in a talk that he gives at a public square in Istanbul. At some point, something's got to give, right? Well, you know, there's a racial aspect to all this, and that's what's going to make this very inflammatory. Vietnam, was wrapped up and chained and put on the cover of Newsweek magazine, okay? James Baldwin wrote this, and it's so applicable today. He said, as long as white Americans take refuge in their whiteness, they will allow millions of other people to be slaughtered. Now, most of the other people in this world are people of color. The world has been divided right into now with the Lily White West and NATO as its embodiment and the US and Israel as its presence in the Middle East. Bottom line, Israel could not do this without full support from the United States. We are the primary people to blame.

Larry, what happened on the evening of October 7th and the morning of October 8th when the Israeli defense forces reached the Kibbutzim that had been attacked by Hamas on the morning of October 7th? They used tanks and aircraft to bomb the houses that contained both Hamas fighters and Israeli hostages. The evidence of this is pretty overwhelming, and it's not from a Palestinian source. It's from Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper, and they've got other Israeli citizens on the record

citing what happened. So Israel, in the immediate aftermath of this attack on October 7th by Hamas, which was, it turns out to be a well-planned military operation, they attacked both Israeli military outposts and also took Kibbutzim in order to take hostages. And they used the hostages to exchange them for prisoners, as they've done in the past. Israel was caught so unaware, so surprised, that they were both humiliated and they reacted without regard for human life, and then proceeded to blame all of the burned, charred bodies of Israelis

in these buildings on Hamas, when in fact, the destruction that was caused, Hamas did not have a tank or an aircraft that was dropping 500-pound bombs or JDAMs. Only Israel had those, and the houses reflected damage that could only be caused by Israeli defense forces. So someone from Prime Minister Netanyahu to a commander on the scene, somewhere in that chain of command, ordered the Israeli Air Force and military to attack and kill Israeli citizens in order to kill at the same time Hamas that was there.

Right. And in fact, you had Israeli helicopter pilots who were flying, to kill at the same time Hamas that was there. Right. And in fact, you had Israeli helicopter pilots who were flying, I think, Apaches, which are attack helicopters. They admitted they were firing on vehicles that were fleeing from that rave, that desert rock festival. And they had no way of knowing who was in the car or who wasn't. And in fact, they did end up killing Israeli kids. And yet the audacity of this is that Israel turns around and blames it all on Hamas and proceeds with the lie that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. Well,

you know what? Give me the list of the names of those babies. You haven't seen a single grandparent show up on television anywhere saying, have you seen my grandson or my granddaughter? Because grandparents are fierce when it comes to their grandchildren. It was a complete, total lie made up by the Israel and sold to the news networks across the United States. Well, Joe Biden himself at one point claimed he saw a picture of it. Then, of course, the White House had to walk him back because the picture didn't exist because the event didn't happen. Right. If they existed, fine, put it out there. And then if Hamas really did that, then they should absolutely be condemned. But what Israel did was manufacture a big lie because it got caught with its pants down.

They were embarrassed, humiliated, because Israel's reputation is having this great intelligence service, this great military. They were completely beaten on October 7th, and they're now extracting revenge on the Palestinians because of their embarrassment. I want to play this clip from Benzie Sanders, a young man born in New York City, raised in America, who went to live in Israel and joined the IDF. He appeared on MSNBC just a few days ago. And what he said there is remarkable. Watch this. After we went in and we suffered our own casualties, killed also thousands of Palestinians in that operation, I came out and I looked and I started thinking about what we accomplished. And I saw that actually what happened was that Hamas

just got stronger. And not only did it get stronger, it got stronger with the help of my own government. My own government thought that it was convenient and preferable to bolster Hamas while it simultaneously delegitimized and called Palestinian initiatives from the Palestinian Authority at the UN diplomatic terrorism, delegitimized Palestinian human rights activists, human rights organizations, designating them as terrorist groups, meanwhile facilitating the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars to Gaza into the hands of Hamas. And they just got stronger. All of that for the purpose of preventing the creation of Palestinian state, preventing hope, really, for Palestinians to achieve the same rights and

freedoms that we cherish so much for ourselves. And that is actually crushing Palestinian hope, which also plays into the hands of Hamas. All right, he's talking about what happened in 2014, obviously, but his recitation of the history is consistent with our understanding of it, Ray. It is, and Hamas is not going to be defeated. Hamas is an idea. Hamas is a strong urge to be independent and to have their own life, that is, for the Palestinians. What worries me is that when the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, actually get into Gaza City and confront those tunnels, the ones that haven't been blown up yet, the ones that are really deep, there's a likelihood they'll use poison gas. Now, why do I say that? I say that because the very author of the lead up in the New York Times today, Israeli President Yitzhak, has gone on TV a week

ago and said, look, one of the Hamas fighters had the blueprints, had the instructions as to how to make cyanide. That's what they're going to do. And that's what they're going to do. Well, this is a classic false flag sort of operation. Those tunnels are formidable. And I don't put it past the Israelis to use that kind of gas, sarin or cyanide or whatever, to flush Hamas out and blame it on Hamas in the first instance. False flags are the most odious and most prevalent kind of tactic that the Israelis and others have used in this war. Larry, which is more likely to happen, a diplomatic solution to this or a widening regional war? The war is going to widen. You know, in his trip to Netanyahu, he tried to, you know, as they said, a pause, you know, euphemism for ceasefire.

And within 30 minutes, Netanyahu came out and basically told him, you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine. No. And so then Blinken's going to set off. He's going to go to Jordan and see if he can enlist the help of the other Arab nations to try to calm down the Hamas. They're going to show him the door as well. The United States has lost its credibility. And the problem is the masses of the people in the streets. Don't worry about the leaders. in Iran, and in Indonesia, are becoming enraged more and more each passing day as they see the images of these slaughtered children and these mangled bodies of women. It is not a military target, and it's not just a one-off. It's happening with increased frequency.

They're going to fight back. This thing's going to get out of control, and I fear that millions are going to die. Chris, let's play Secretary Austin 3. We'll eventually get to 4, which I know is going to get our guests angry, but 3 is Secretary Austin. I love you guys. You know that. Secretary Austin testifying under oath about our aid to Israel. It's just about two days ago in the United States Senate Foreign Affairs Committee. We're flowing security assistance into Israel at the speed of war. We're providing air defense capabilities, precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, and other

key equipment, including more interceptors for the life-saving Iron Dome system. Can Israel wage this war, Ray, without American military assistance? Stated differently, can the Biden administration say to Netanyahu, stop the slaughter of innocent civilians, or we stop sending you military equipment? Judge, the Biden administration is Blinken and Sullivan, Newland, and to a degree, Austin. It's not the president. Even if it were the president, his instincts are completely wrong. What is important here is that there's a new element in this equation, and that is the latest technology, and it's this kind of thing here.

Whoops. Am I still on? Yeah. You're still on, Ryan. Go ahead. Okay. I'm showing an iPhone. And what I'm saying here is that Larry is completely right. This will be fought in the public arena. The people in the Arab countries, Iran and Ukraine, not Ukraine, but Turkey, can see these photos. It's just like back when, in the late 70s, when Khomeini was in Paris and they used the latest technology, those little, what do you call them? Tape machines, you know, tape recorders. They were put on cassettes, blasted from the minarets all over the Middle East, especially in Iran. And you know what happened to the Shah. So this is what's going to happen. The world is going to be sensitized to what's going to happen. And the U.S. is not going to be able to continue this kind of thing

very much longer. What I fear is that the genocide will continue until it's too late to prevent the slaughter of half the people in Gaza. We'll switch gears before we leave to the latest in Ukraine, because in that same, right after that clip, Secretary Austin, cut four, Chris, said the following about Ukraine. This is mind boggling. Under oath. Yet even as we surge support into Israel, we remain focused on Ukraine. Nearly 20 months into Putin's failed campaign of conquest, the Russian military has been badly weakened.

Ukraine's brave forces have taken back more than half of the territory seized by Russian invaders since February 2022. And that was made possible by bipartisan and principled U.S. leadership and our coalition of some 50 allies and partners. Red, just like Victoria Nuland wrote it for him, Larry. Yeah, now, listen, he's displaying a level of stupidity that's appalling

in someone who holds he occupies the role of Secretary of Defense. The Russia's losing. Russia says, boy, if this is losing, we want more of it. You know, they've been advancing steadily over the last four weeks. They completely stopped the counteroffensive in its tracks. It didn't even breach the first line of three lines of defense over a five-month period. Now, if that's what Austin's definition of success is, it helps explain why he doesn't understand that there's no difference, that there are differences between male and female. He's just quite comfortable with transgender.

He'll accept any kind of nonsense that's presented to him as long as he gets to keep his job and ensure that when he gets done, that they'll welcome him back to Raytheon. Ray, I'll give you the last word. Well, the cynicism here is incredible. Here's Secretary Austin assuring the defense minister in Ukraine exactly five weeks ago. Secretary Austin assured me that the U.S. support for Ukraine will continue. Warriors will continue to have the strong backup on the battlefield. Well, you know, that's five weeks ago. Now, of course, we know that Ukraine is not going to get what it needs, at least not immediately. The denouement is in prospect. It's going to happen

within the next month. What are Biden and Blinken and Austin going to do when it's shown that they've been lying about Russian losing, that they have to now accept the fact that the Ukraine has lost? Are they going to redouble? Are they going to send send 60 billion more money. It's crazy, and it's all going to come to a head before the election, and that's the wild card here. I don't know what Biden and his crew will be tempted to do because they have a personal stake in not losing the war, not losing the election. I know I said the last word, but before you jump in, Larry, we're going to extend this because Chris reminded me we have a cut of President Zelensky from yesterday, who sounds like he believes what Secretary Austin just lied to the Senate about.

Take a listen to this. The results are good. Russia is gradually losing control of the Black Sea and retreating to the eastern part of the waters. We will reach them there as well. Second, an extended meeting with our government officials regarding the steps Ukraine needs to take, both in the context of our transformation and in our work with partners. Specific reforms in various areas.

We are preparing bills and government decisions. Some of them will be adopted in the coming weeks. Larry. Yeah, I was going to just jump in and point out that the lies, as is exemplified by Zelensky in this, it's across the board. Our U.S. bases that are in Syria and shouldn't be in Syria and in Iraq are being attacked on a daily basis with increasing frequency. And it's not being reported in the media and it's not being reported out by DOD. They're keeping it quiet. But I've heard from people who have seen what's going on, and they said it's getting worse, not better. And so then you look at what's going on in Ukraine. You saw the front page of the cover of Time magazine this week, which basically features Zelensky as Adolf Hitler in the last days in his bunker. And you compare a year ago,

here was Zelensky being touted as the next Winston Churchill or something better than Winston Churchill, Times Man of the Year. Now he's a dud. Nobody wants him. And he makes these kinds of crazy statements just trying to attract attention, people are ignoring them it is just it is so dangerous because in the process of underestimating Russia these Ukrainians began believing their own propaganda and so now they're they're left facing the fact that they've lost and they're losing badly and they're going to lose even more in the coming weeks. Thank you, my dear friends. This stuff is never happy to discuss, but the audience and I deeply appreciate your candor and your insight. All the best.

We'll see you next week. Thanks, Judge. Coming up later today, Professor John Mearsheimer, University of Chicago. We'll talk about the history of how all of this happened. And of course, ask the judge, ask me anything you want about the things we discuss on air. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. I'm out.