Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Behind the Drama: The Real Secrets of Real Housewives with Jack Tarantino

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

This week on Juicy Scoop, I’m joined by executive producer Jack Tarantino for a no-holds-barred look behind the scenes of Real Housewives of OC and Miami. What’s actually real? What’s secretly produced? Jack spills the truth about casting secrets, producer tricks, and how the most iconic moments in Housewives history really came to life. If you think you know Housewives… think again. -Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code JUICY at ⁠https://www.irestore.com/JUICY⁠ !  -Take proactive care of your health and head to ⁠⁠https://OPositiv.com/JUICYSCOOP⁠⁠  or enter JUICYSCOOP at checkout for 25% off your first purchase.  -To get 6 bottles of wine for $39.99, head to ⁠https://NakedWines.com/JUICYSCOOP⁠ and use code JUICYSCOOP for both the CODE AND PASSWORD  -Don’t miss NOBL’s biggest Sale of the Year! Head to ⁠https://NOBLTravel.com⁠ for up to 58% off your entire order! #NOBL #ad  -Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at ⁠⁠https://on.auraframes.com/JUICYSCOOP⁠⁠. Promo Code JUICYSCOOP Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View and enjoy. Via Rail, love the way. Heather McDonald has got the juices scoop.

When you're on the road, when you're on the go, juices scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales. for real life, Mr. Segment, Serial Data and Serial Sister, you'll be addicted and addicts it fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen to us. Hannah McDonald's Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.

I'm very excited for our guest because I know so many times we've talked about what really goes on behind the scenes and casting of reality shows, especially our favorite Housewives. and we have a man that knows it all. Jack Tarantino, welcome to Juicy Scoop for your first time, but we know each other. We do know each other. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

When I came across your TikToks, kind of spilling the beans, I liked your style. I was like, why does this guy look familiar? But I reached out to you to have you on here because you have produced housewives and many other things that we talk about here on Juicy Scoop. And then you're like, we work together. I'm like, that's why you look familiar because we did a show. that I did right after Chelsea lately ended, but before I started the podcast called All About Sex.

Yes, on TLC. We did six episodes. Which was, it was literally one of my most favorite shows to work on at TLC. Really? That's so sad and nice at the same time. It was such a big swing for the network and I really, really tried to get it to a season two. Yeah. And unfortunately, it didn't go that way.

sorry. But you were great. It's okay. I mean, yes, I was very excited for it. And it was fun because it was myself, Margaret Cho. There was four of us. And it was talking about sex and relationships, which really was all the thoughts I had that then I parlayed later on after go anywhere is when I started the podcast. So, you know what they say? I don't know if you know what they say, but they say, life's rejection is God's protection. Not that I need to be protected from the show, but sometimes, you know, one door closes, one door opens kind of a thing. But I was excited and I thought, oh my God, this is going to go for like six years or something and I'll have this another opportunity just to talk about things on camera like I was doing on Chelsea.

You know, it's funny because it was such a favorite amongst the execs there at TLC. So when the numbers started coming in and, you know, it's such a hard time slot. You were on at 11 o'clock or 1130 on a Saturday night. Yeah, they thought like all these women would just be like running to go watch it. And I was like, and I thought if this is going to survive, I was like, first of all, it can't be just sex. It could be just lots of juicy, exactly what I'm doing now, type of topics and things. But it could go a long way. But yeah, you never know.

I had so many ideas to sort of take it out of the studio and go out on the street or go around the country. Oh, that would be so fun. like meet the women where they were, meet the men where they were, because it's, it's such a universal but yet taboo topic. Right. So, I don't know, maybe we should revisit something like that in the future. I know, it was, it was a good, it was a good time. And anyway, but prior to that, would have been when you worked on Real House Festival

O.C., season five and season six. Yes. And tell me a little bit about your background and how you even gotten. business. Yeah, so I moved to L.A. out of college, and my first job was on the dating game. Oh, my God. And my boss was a man by the name of Brian Graydon, who went on to run MTV. Oh. And my first job was making all these half-inch tapes to send to all the community. And I was like, what is this show? It was South Park. The very first episode of South Park, Brian helped get that show sold. And so when Brian went over to MTV, you know, he took a group of us over there.

And so I cut my teeth at MTV. I worked at a bunch of shows. What years were you there at MTV? I was there from like 96 to like 2002. Okay. So then that's when I was doing Lyracist's Lounge. Oh, yes. On MTV with Tracy Ellis Ross.

Yes. I remember that show. My big show I did there was a show called BioRhythm. Yeah. Yeah. Those were great. I mean, talk about getting your feet wet. It was amazing.

It was fun. Yeah, it was fun. And then from there, I went on and I started doing shows like Baldwin Hills, which caught the eye of Evolution Media, and that's how I got the meeting for Housewives. And that was a reality show about Baldwin Hills. It was the Hills, but for black kids. Right, which was sort of a community in L.A. That's sort of upper class just outside of L.A.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And so from there, I was actually in Paris. And I got a call for my agent and I said, yeah, I'll be home in a couple days. They said, well, the Real Housewives of Orange County is looking for a showrunner. And I knew instantly like, you know when you just know. I was like, this is my show. Because I grew up in San Diego and I hung out with girls like that. My whole life. I mean, I just loved it. The hair, the nails, the makeup, the drama around the guy. I mean, it was the whole nine yards. And so when I went in and met with Evolution Media, who produced the show. We hit it off right away and then I went to the network

and then the rest is history. You know what is so funny about this side of the business which the listeners like don't know but like when talent or a production company is looking for a showrunner even when I've had deals

and stuff where I've met with a showrunner and I remember this with Chelsea too when she got her show. She's like I met with all these guys for Chelsea lately to be showrunners and only one who was a woman even looked me up on YouTube

even knew anything about me and I'm like wouldn't you want somebody to work on the show that either knew about you was excited or was a fan of it already which is what you were

like that's what it should be and it's so weird sometimes when they would put somebody on a show that like it's exactly like I'm not going to be running a show on ESPN like I don't know about sports I don't care.

Like, why would I even try out for that job? But sometimes that happens. And it's, like, weird that you would, that they don't think how logical that, how illogical that is. Well, it's so funny, too, because there's men's programming and then there's women's programming, right? And I've always been a big fan of women's programming. And so when I started coming up, you know, in my career, I only focused on the women's programming and things that really lit me up. because these shows, you can have no life when you produce a show like The Housewives. It's a year of your life, and I did it three years in a row.

So when they say you're going to work on this show, so does all the camera people, does everybody have to find a residence in the OC because you are filming there? So if you lived in West Hollywood, you'd have to find another place to live? Or how does that work? So the production company puts us up. We all move into an apartment complex, and we all get apartments in that complex. Okay. And then we also have an apartment that we turn into our production office where my war room is.

Oh, wow. And what I mean by that is that's where we plan all the scenes. That's where we, it's a small group of us. I have boards up. I have cards up. Like, you know, everyone says, oh, the number one question I get is, as a showrunner, has always been, these shows are scripted. And you know this from being in scripted world.

I wish it was scripted. Yeah. And here's an example of why it's not scripted. So you know the taglines for each of the housewives? Yes. Those are scripted lines that we spend weeks getting approvals from the network. And let me ask a question. Yeah.

It's my understanding that let's say, okay, you guys are finishing up this season, come up with some taglines. And so the producers and you will write like maybe five and then you give it to the women and then they choose one or how does it work? No, we do it. So we come up with five. We give it to the network. They tell us the ones they like. Then we get the women to record them.

And some of the women don't know how to do it. And if you know what I mean? Yeah. Some of them will just read the line. So we have to like rehearse with them. Right, because they're not actors. They're not actors. And so it's my, that's my point.

Like these shows, you can't script this stuff. Yeah. It would be so much easier if these shows were scripted, right? Because we knew, we would know what we were getting. We would get in and we would get out. We would go and spend, you know, for any of these shows, I would go live in Orange County or Miami for like five, six months at a time. Because you have to ingrain yourself with these people.

And then how do you decide, like, because I remember, so Heather Debrough was on it and I became friendly with Tamara and then Heather Debrough and Heather Debrough was having her groundbreaking party for her for that house and she invited us and then that night my husband and I went over to Shannon Bedores

and we were going to go have dinner at Mastros and I remember like Shannon and Vicky saying that some producer was texting them like pissed that we were going to dinner when cameras were down. So how does that work? Because it's like, you know, you can't, this isn't the Truman show. So they've got to have some time to do things on their own.

And you almost prefer them not to socialize during the months that you're filming. Yes, absolutely. I've always said it's the best part-time job out there, right? Because they work like three days a week. but we do encourage them not to see each other off camera, but they're real people. Right. So you can't guard against that. But I think part of the reason we also have to go live down there and we're there, I mean, I was there seven days a week and I'm on the phone with them every day all day, or I'm shooting scenes with them, or I'm doing interviews with them.

So we have to ingrain ourselves into their lives because that's the only way we're going to know things. like they went to dinner and they didn't tell cameras that they were going to dinner. You know, because what happens is then they'll start talking about story that then we're going to have to. And, you know, I never did recreations. We were in the moment following the stories as they were coming along. So we would always, I would always discourage them from that. And in order to get to that point where they would listen to me, I had to be a very strong person with them. because, you know, you wear many hats as a showrunner. You're part psychologist.

I was going to say there's a lot of psychology. Oh, my God, Heather. There's so much psychology. When you are looking, wait, finish what you're going to say, and I'm going to ask my next question. Well, yeah, you just, I would always discourage them because you're on a show. Yeah. Right? And you want the show to be successful.

So this is your job. You're being paid for this. So it's not a lot to say, hey, Vicki, Shannon, don't go to dinner without cameras there. Yeah. You know what I mean? So. And so, like I've said about the psychology, when you're interviewing people to be segment producers or producers, do you, is that a bonus that they like studied psychology or that that is a true interest of theirs? Because in the psychology, are you, are some producers, you know, part of their job is, I think, to manipulate and convince someone to share more, right?

If they're holding back, you'd say, you know, Emily, share about your struggles with your son because think of how this might help other women, which it has. But then at the same time, she got heavily criticized for sharing her son's struggles, like, you know, with the hippo laws and he's a child, and I see both sides. I see both sides. I think it's a really difficult thing, and that's why I think there's certain mothers on this show that their now relationship with their adult child is extremely. extremely strained because the child didn't enjoy having their life shared on TV.

Yeah. We can talk to Brianna Vicki's daughter about that. I mean, that poor girl has PTSD. But, you know, going back to your question about hiring field producers for this show, it was a very tedious process because, to your point, these people were going to be spending months on end with these women. So it was part experience, but it was also part intuitive, like who understood the psychology, because that is a big, these are like, you know, social experiments, if you will, in human behavior. And, you know, these women don't always act grown up, especially when you add a little bit of alcohol to some of this stuff.

You have to have somebody who has very thick skin who's going to be able to take vicarious. yelling at you, you know, and humiliating you in front of a restaurant full of people. Now, why would they, why do they get mad at the producers and stuff like that? If they're just supposed to be like a fly on the wall, why would a housewife get mad at a segment producer? Because it's somebody they can take it out on, right? So if, for example, if one of the women got into a confrontation and it didn't look good for them, um, they would immediately throw it back on production and they would come

find me and they would try to yell at me or yell at the team. And it just, would they ever try to say please don't use that. Oh yeah. And don't and then do they know that's just probably probably by saying that would maybe make you, if you might have cut it. I would think that the reverse psychology is not to say that and just like go to church and pray that you don't use it because I think by saying don't, don't use it, it'll kill me, would mean I would be like, well, then I better use it because it's obviously going to be a good reunion moment. I mean, the contracts that Bravo has them sign are like Bibles. So they know everything. We can only put on TV, on camera, what you give us. So that's another reason why when people say it's scripted, I can never have the blowback of that. So if I

tried to go up to Tamara or Vicky or one of the girls and say, I need you to go, that would never fly with them, right? So when people say it's scripted or, no, this is just the, I, I like to say that I would put them in a, I would paint like a sandbox for them and then they go in and then they play in the sandbox. Now, I mean, this was, when you were working on Housewives, you have this, this is one of the seasons you worked on, right? You had Peggy, Tamara. Peggy, was only on one season. Yeah. And you had told me that in looking at the casting that you guys had already discovered Heather

Debrough as a potential. Yeah. We interviewed Heather and Terry during season five, and we loved her. We thought she was a breath of fresh air. The network, I think, was a little reticent at first because she was an actress. And at that point, Beverly Hills hadn't debuted yet. And so they weren't really keen on having actors come in yet. But we really push for her.

And the network at the time just felt like they wanted to go in a different direction. I think they wanted somebody that had more of the aesthetic because Heather was a brunette and all the girls were blondes. So Peggy fit that type. They weren't ready for that DEI hire just yet. They weren't. I mean, we pushed and pushed and pushed because we just thought Heather was amazing. And she lived that aspirational lifestyle for real. She wasn't like one of the fake ones, like renting a house.

And she was down for it. She was down for it. And you see her now. She's great. Do you know if she reached out or someone had discovered her? No, it came through our casting director, um, discovered her and brought her in. And then we met with her and we fell in love.

with her and we put her on tape her and terry on tape and we sent it to the network and they just that first season they just weren't it's funny yeah because you said they wanted all blondes but who is this girl on the end i don't remember her at all fernanda she oh she was our first lesbian yes the first lesbian she was tamra's trainer and remember they made out yes they made out but that was also the i mean listen Tamara tried to make out with me in cobo i mean i'm a gay man I mean, God bless her. She made out with Bronwyn. Yeah.

She was really the, you know, the originator of it. Yeah, she was. Now it's like half the cast. Half of the housewives are like, have had some type of lesbian liaison storyline something. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now it's, now it's, I mean, look at Portia Williams.

Yeah. I mean, now she's got a full on girlfriend. Full on. I mean, amazing. But yeah, season five was also the. first season with Alexis, who I have to say, like, when she walked into the audition, or the meeting, I should say, I was like, oh, God, this woman is gorgeous, but, you know, she was married to her husband and just leave it at that. Yeah. And, yeah, I mean, they were

fun. I mean, it was very fun the way, you know, that type of, um, mega church Christian cultural movement that was kind of happening at the time in those 2000s, I think was very representative of what was going on. And then also really interesting to the people at home. Yeah. And hence where the Jesus Jugs came. Jesus Jugs. Classic line. Yeah. I mean, you know, the other thing is her and Gretchen were really tight. Yeah. You know, they were God-fearing women and they were really good friends. And it's interesting to see them now have drifted so far apart. And I never would have guessed, and it was never on my bingo card, that Tamara and

Alexis would become friends, ever. Yeah. And why do you think they did? Because I think it's because of Shannon. I really do. I just think that, you know, Tamara gets her feelings hurt, and I think that's her way of acting out. Yeah.

You know, because she couldn't stand Alexis for many years. Juicy Scoopers, let's talk hair and why I Restore has everything you need to stop the thinning and the shedding and get your best, most luxurious hair for 2026. The I Restore Elite is the only device on the market with triple wave length technology penetrating deeper into the scalp for maximum follicle stimulation. The LEDs provide that broader uniform coverage to fill in the gaps in between the lasers. The I Restore Elite device is the best at-home laser device in the world. It has more lasers, LEDs, and power output.

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a great sex life again, which is so important. And I know really changes as we age. So right now, take proactive care of your health and head to opositive.com slash juicy scoop or enter juicy scoop at checkout for 25% off your first purchase. That's O-P-O-P-O-P-O-S-I-T-I-V.com slash juicy scoop for 25% off. I think that Tamara, I think that Shannon is someone that is a very needy friend. And when she was very, very needy, I know Tamara was there for all the calls and all the things and and then when she was not on the show for a year or two she didn't hear from her and i think that built a lot of anger and resentment and that's where the tamer grudge comes which people are like what are is that coming from like it's coming from that yeah and that's what i think is really

hard and i think that happens especially with the women of o'c is when they're friends they're you know on the show and then they're friends and then one gets the boot and they're like, well, I can't be friends with the person that got the boot anymore because then it'll cause problems with me filming with these other women. And I mean, what would you suggest about that? I mean, I do think that's really a very hurtful thing. It's like being in high school where you didn't make the varsity cheerleading team and now your best friend who's on it never talks to again. Because you're not on the squad. And you're like, what? We shared everything together we had sleepovers like it it never changes like that generation ex women we honestly

this just is representative of that we are still the bitchy assholes that we were in 1988 that's why we love to watch these shows i know i mean seriously it's not going to be the same with whatever the younger housewives are they'll have their own dynamic but our gen x dynamic of women are great and funny but also can be really mean bitchy slumber party witches you know really catty yeah i would say that point about not talking to tamra when she got let you know on pause or whatever but she did keep talking to vicky so at that Shannon did so it doesn't really make sense i think it was a way to be a little more up up like Shannon had the upper hand because she was asked back to the show and tamara at the time

was the longest serving housewife. Listen, I spoke to Tamara and Vicky right after they both got let go. In fact, I developed a show with them and took it out. Anyway, it was a different story. But they were both heartbroken because their whole identity was wrapped up, as you can imagine. I mean, like any job, when you've been on it that long, and that it then is wrapped up in fame, too. And I also think the Bravo con that began, and I think the first year was 2019 or 18. Was it 19?

I don't know. No, it would have been, yeah, I think it was 19. I think that that that has also really changed these women. Absolutely. I mean. It's a fan fest. It's like there was a humbleness about them. that like I watched the show

and I was so into it but it wasn't that popular and when I would meet them they'd be like oh you know like you know who I am I don't think that even walking around OC it wasn't this like famous thing they were still don't you think in those years they were able to kind of like

and so they didn't see themselves as stars like maybe they had one time they were on a talk show or whatever but now it's like that you're a rock star and it's like I think that's I don't I just think it changes the dynamic of what it was and you can't blame them for it they they should have that fun and they you can't play Bravo for wanting it and the fans love it but it definitely changes what it was it does and it makes it harder to sort of produce the women because they become so savvy you know when they're when they're going to something like BravoCon, and they're being treated like when the Beatles came out, and people are screaming. In 1960, yeah. I mean, and people are screaming for them. I'll give you a funny example.

My husband and I flew down to Puerto Vallarta a couple of Christmases ago, and we had dinner with Vicky and Mike. We're going to Mexico. We're in Mexico, and we went with her to Andalais. Of course. And on the way there, I'm arm and arm with Vicky. Yeah. And this woman comes out of nowhere and screams, Vicki Kavosan. And it freaked me the hell out, right?

And I was like, Vicky, don't you get, like, freaked out when your fans, like, come and scream your name? She's like, are you kidding me? They love me. Like, you know, she's like the mayor down there. Yeah. So, and now that the show's, like, global, right? Yeah. They really have become full-on celebrities and they're getting brand deals and they're getting commercials.

I mean, look at Candy Burris. She's like a full-fledged Broadway. She's worldwide. She's worldwide. Yeah. I mean, she had a career, a very successful career in one of the hardest industries, you know, songwriting and producing prior to it. So, like, that's really great. And she makes great TV.

And she's just smart and extremely likable. Yeah. But to break into the Broadway, that's such a tight. Oh, totally. Yeah. That's a tight group of people. And so, you know, for her to, like, be able to break in. As a producer, not just doing Roxy Heart.

Absolutely. Yeah. Not just doing Roxy Heart. It kind of is, you know, you're blonde and you're on a popular reality show. Who wants to play Roxy next? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Gina Kino, yeah, she was an original.

Yeah, Gina was one of the originals. Here we go. And, you know, there was always that controversy. She's done some interviews about why, what happened with why she loved. left. And my understanding is that it just came down to negotiations, which we know back then it wasn't a big moneymaker. As far as, as far as for the cast, you didn't make, the money wasn't, I mean, the money was better than working in, you know, as a, you know, an executive assistant or something or working at Nordstrom. But it wasn't actress changing money. It's not like you're

on friends. No, it was not life changing money. In fact, the first season, these girls go on. They end up spending more money than they make. Right. Even today. Even today. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, by the time season five rolled around, I would say that for Gina, you know, I think it did come down to contract negotiations. And I also think that from Bravo's perspective, that I think they wanted to make the franchise, the franchise was bigger than any one housewife. And so I think it's, sent a shockwave throughout all of the franchise. I mean, back then it was only OC and I think New York had just started and I think they were starting to look for other cast in different cities. But I think that gave Bravo the upper hand. It's like no, no one, no one housewife is bigger than the franchise. Everyone is a dispendable. Everyone. I mean, and you saw it when Vicky got let go. I think that also was another one because the O.C of the, the O.G of the

OC is being let go. That meant anybody could be let go. And don't you think sometimes even if it wasn't conscious, it's kind of like, you know, if we're going to let her go, you better just get your marching orders and stay in line. You know the assignment. Yeah. And you, you know, you act accordingly. That's why it's, to be honest, it's a little hard watching the shows now with all these like giving stories to bloggers and you know watching OC this past season i don't know if i really enjoyed it i have to say the truth and i was so hopeful when gretchen came back on because i love gretchen my husband and i have socialized with her and slayed and but i just felt like she didn't really capture what i think everyone was hopeful that she was going to capture meaning like

taking tamer to task i think yeah but you know that's a thing think you're you don't have the control of the narrative and so then that so when the stories were presented then that was the thing that she had to then defend herself against whether she said the thing about the naked wasted or not or whatever and I don't think that was like the intention I think the intention was to show this fun side of her life now as a young mom and a successful influencer and she's still with the guy from 16 years ago that everyone thought that he was just there to be on the show you know like I think they wanted to show that but then they still have trauma, you know, from the residual effects of being on the show and, like, defending

themselves. And, yeah, I think that, yeah, it's all that, you know, of, like, how that, how it changes. And I think that, you know, even, like, when I met Shannon Bedore for the first time, she was like, oh, I had to, like, go down the street to have someone do my eyelashes or whatever. She's like, I've never worn fake eyelashes before I was cast. And now every woman has full hair and makeup, hair extensions. And those things, once you start them, like, you can't stop it. Like, you have to keep that up. And that is such an expense.

And I can understand why. Because they look back and they're like, oh, my God, I had no upper lip. Now I get lip filler. Oh, my God, you know, how was I not knowing about contouring my skin or whatever? And then also the house and stuff, someone being like, I can't believe you have that old thing from a, you know, Z Gallery. I got it in 2008. And they're like, oh, I still do have that thing from Z gallery in 2000.

I better change that now. There's a whole other expense there. It's funny that you say that. So I got interviewed. A book is coming out next year. And it talks about the 2008 market crash. Yes. And specifically season five of the Real Housewives of Orange County.

because of how that show was perceived, right? And all these women had to sort of live up to this lifestyle. Most of them did. Most of them owned their homes and lived in Cotto and these beautiful homes, but there were a couple that did not. And we ended up capturing, you know, one of them on camera famously was Lynn Curtin. She got evicted from her Laguna Beach home that they were renting. So you were really filming that day and really the person who actually owned the property had

someone knocked the door and serve them? No. So I got a call from the realtor who, you know, when you're living in Orange County and you're shooting the show, everyone, every, you make friends with people that, you know, are going to be in the orbit. So they called me and they actually wanted to come during filming to serve her the eviction notice. But we had this big dinner party and there was so much story to service, I said, well, can you just give it a beat and come tomorrow morning? So that's why we knew the cameras. That's why the cameras were up. We knew it was coming.

So those are happy accidents that happened because, you know, when you're a good producer, I think knowing the town and knowing the right people, it's sort of, you know, you get a leg up on sort of knowing exactly what's going on in the world, not just with each of the individual ladies. But the truth is, we knew that Lynd and Frank were, you know, they couldn't really afford that lifestyle. But, I mean, don't rent $17,000 a month home or however much it was. If you can't afford it, we're still going to fall. You're on the show. I remember they gave one of the girls at BMW, and then she got the facelift. And, you know, and this is all on the budget of selling a cuff or two. Exactly.

You know? And I also remember that Gretchen went and was trying to be like a big sister to the daughters and help. And that was not received well. And the girls have struggled, you know, sadly. And that's also really what's interesting now is that now there's so much, as I would say, juicy scoop history that we can actually go back and be like, wow, how did this affect this person positively or negatively or whatever, being on the show? show. So interesting. Let's talk a little bit about Brooks and Vicki. This is by far my favorite of all storylines that have ever happened because it was not a blogger leaking it. No. We did not know it. No. And I don't think even though I was friendly with the women, I don't think I knew what was happening, except I went to, I'm pretty sure this was happening. Heather, Heather DeBrow and Terry did a book call like the Mr. and Mrs. Guinea Pig or whatever. And it hadn't come out yet, but they wanted to have like a book party for it. And I went to it and actually then had dinner with Gretchen and Slate after. And they weren't on the show anymore. And I'm in that episode because

I'm talking to Vicky. And I want to say it was around this time. And she was telling me the girls are being horrible to me. And I had already had dinner with Brooks. So we thought he was nice. So I didn't know why they were being mean to her. She just told me they're being horrible to me this season. And then I got to watch it and saw that it was the fake cancer story. Oh. I mean, it's something that she will never let down. I think it's her biggest regret was the day she met that guy. I mean, I never, I actually never met Brooks because I had already moved on from the show. But I have to say, I mean, here's something that you know that most people on camera know. The camera never lies, right? So what that means is the essence of whatever's happening

in the situation, the camera picks up on that. I mean, we all saw it with him as soon as he walked on. I mean, I was watching as a fan from home because I watched the show before I started working on it, And I watched it after I left. And it's just, Vicky, you know, I think I reached out to her at one point and just to check on her. She was not having a good time. That story will forever go down as a black cloud over her, for sure. And in your opinion, because I don't know the truth. I don't know anybody knows the truth.

do you think she as she was making the binder from him going to Hogue or which he wasn't do you think she ever suspected it or she was just like la la la la la la and didn't really want to know and just hoped that he would get better once the cameras were done

and then they would never have to talk about it again yeah I think it was the latter Ella McKay coming to theaters December 12th your father's here why A heartwarming new comedy from James L. Brooks. I'm a different person. I have never in my life out this way about any other woman. Jesus! I wasn't counting your mother!

It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family. You can use a scream, Ella. Starring Emma Mackey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Camel Nanjani, Iowa Debrie with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. You should do that every afternoon. Ella McKay. I mean, Vicki's a very smart woman. So I'm sure there were red flags for her, but I think if she really, really knew the extent of his scheming, I think she would have confided in someone. And that person would have come forward by now.

So I really do think she was bamboozled by, I hate to say it, but her love tank was full from him. You know what? I have gone back and forth. And one of my things that I'm kind of obsessed with is just. grifters in general. And there have been a lot of long-form documentaries and podcasts on grifters. And one common denominator is the making up of cancer, of lying about cancer. And there are so many people that get tricked by it that, you know, oh, my God, I met her at church. And I was, oh, we were mom friends and she was my girlfriend and and when you hear it you're just like how could you not know

but now that there's been so many other stories besides bickies yeah i'm actually a little more sympathetic to what it was because if you are not a medical professional if you never had cancer if you never cared for someone that had cancer you could just be like oh my god he's so strong those jama juice you know smoothies are really working I mean, here's what I will say. In Vicky's defense, I would say that if she did really know, like, I think she would have come clean at some point. I really do. But then that would have meant, you know, if you're going to come clean about your partner, no matter what it is, fake cancer, he yells at me, he's abusive, whatever.

If you're going to come clean to anybody, but especially on TV, then you know you can't be with that person anymore. And I think that was the hard thing. She wasn't ready to give them up. She wasn't. And, you know, look what it did with her relationship with her daughter. I mean, and that was all on camera. I mean, poor Brianna has PTSD from that show anyway, but I think that exasperated everything because she also fought a potential cancer diagnosis afterwards.

And so of all the things. Of her, on herself? Yeah, they thought that she had all those thyroid issues. I mean, Brianna. Brianna, yes. And so, you know, I mean, that's a hard thing to sort of have to deal with with your own daughter. Even to this day, Vicky, if you bring up that name, you just can see her. It just is the biggest mistake of her life.

Yeah, because, I mean, it sounds like through the reunion that they had something going on, but while she was still married to Dawn, whether it was just emotional. or whatever. He was, you know, in her, texting her something, Brooks. And so I think that she ended her relationship with Dawn knowing that she had this other guy. And he turned out to be, you know, a piece of shit. So, and did she get him all new teeth? 100%. I'm sure of that. I mean, he didn't have a pot to piss in. I mean, listen, that's the thing about Vicki. She's very, she's got a big heart. Was there any time that you thought that she would be, the First Lady of California.

No. Remember when he was dating? Steve Lodge. Yes. Brother of Roger Lodge, host of Blind Date. Blind Date. Yeah. One of my favorite shows.

Steve was another one of those guys that is, it's just like Bronwyn's Todd. Yeah. I mean, I just don't understand. Like, he gives, like, grandpa energy. Like, I don't. And then he married, like, a 35-year-old. And he's the one that bitches about

the show so much and yet he's doing scene after scene after scene if you really have that big of a problem with the show they don't be on the show there's you know there's many husbands that have said they just don't want to be on camera and can that hurt a housewife um her employment it can hurt a housewife getting on the show because the show's about being a housewife right um but if the husband suddenly decides you know in the next season that they don't want to to be on, they can't force him to be on. Right, but don't you think that could cause problems for them in a marriage? Because I would be like, if I love doing this and I think, and, you know, and then the

producer's like, oh, really? Peter's not going to show up for that? No, he's not. All right. Well, all the other husbands are going to be there. I'd be like, oh, my God, Peter. Like, you're ruining, you're ruining this for me. I've always wanted to be on TV, but I gave it up so that I could be a mom. And now it's my time to shine, and you're just taking it away.

and I think that's why it leads to so many divorces. I think with not that everyone that got divorced had a perfectly happy marriage before, but I think without the cameras, at least half of those divorces probably wouldn't have happened. They would have ridden the wave of tougher times with teenagers and whatever and probably ended up to stay together because why not?

Because the opportunity to leave financially or whatnot wouldn't be there. Do you agree? I totally agree. And it's funny because there's this thing, the housewife curse, right, that they all all all all all all alluded to. And I think the kicker was when Kyle and Maricio parted ways because I think we all thought that is a relationship we all can aspire to. And once that was over, it's like, oh, wow, there really is some truth to this housewife curse because there's not very many housewife marriages that are still intact. In fact, most of them aren't even in relationships. I think only Lisa Vanterpump and Ken.

And Melissa and Joe Gordon. And Melissa and Joe. That's it. Yeah. And so, and I think with Kyle and Maricio, what also, there was one thing that she said when she was like just, you know, crying about it, where she was like, it was the thing. She said something, not the thing I'm most proud of, she was saying something like, it made me think that, again, if she wasn't at the. this level of being a public figure for being herself. She was just continued to be an actor or a mom or whatever. Probably they would have gotten divorced 10 years ago. I think she hung on because she was the one

giving this example. She was put on this pedestal as this cute couple that still screwed and looked attractive and were fun. And the only person that had it was Kathy Hilton. So her sister, Kim, and been married, divorced four times. And, of course, she came from a mom that had several husbands, so I think she wanted to have that. And why do you think she won't come out as just whatever she is? I guess we're going to finally see it a little bit this season, which airs, I think, tonight, is, you know, well, maybe I'll go for Brad or Angelina.

Like, what is, now that everyone's gay on the housewives, we're like, oh, you should have come out when you could. Like, who cares? It's been so much, such a bigger story. I think your point about Kyle having to sort of hold it all together for A, her daughters. Yes. Right. Which a lot of women do.

Yeah. And a lot of women do that. And I think that they were sort of that prized couple that everyone looked, even though the streets were talking about him for years. Yeah. Having a wandering eye or whatever. So I think it was her responsibility to keep that marriage intact. but you know she only did it for as long as she could and now we'll see but I agree if she would have come out five years ago oh my god she would have like her star would have really taken off

now it's kind of like well who isn't yeah everyone I mean they all are now I mean she might have an only fans page next I mean who knows you know right geared towards a late in life lesbians how about that there's a business let's move on so Jen Shaw, Real House of Salt Lake City, who did, was sentenced to like nine years, only did about a little over two and a half, I think. She's getting out December 10th. And, um, her crime was pretty bad in that she ran a huge scheme, um, that really took, took advantage of the elderly and vulnerable people, which was so cruel because it gave them hope to like have their own business. So it was like a triple screw over.

Oh, yeah. You know? And then she, I didn't, I never liked her from the moment I saw her on camera. I didn't like that she was screaming and yelling. I didn't like that she was all flashy. And that was another thing I was going to say that someone said, maybe it was Tamara, whoever, not until Heather Dubrow came on did with her Chanel and her real Chanel and her actually, you know, because she came from money too.

She did. She came from money. She had her own money. She married someone that has a potential of making a lot of money, and he did. So, yeah, she, I don't think she was buying her stuff, you know, out of someone's trunk. Like, it was all real. And I think that also up the ante of all these women having to have this label is stuff. And I think probably 80% of it's fake that we see.

Oh, yeah. And probably maybe a 20 is real. Or it's on loan from a stylist. Maybe. You know what I mean? Like, some of these girls are wearing. stuff that, you know, they begged, borrowed, and steeled to get on. But Heather, that's why we loved Heather so much because she was the real deal. Right. She was living. Bravo used to like

talk about the aspirational lifestyle like it was Bible. So we were indoctrinated with that word. And so that, when I was shooting the show, I always shot it through that lens of how are we showcasing their aspirational lifestyles. And I feel like the essence of the housewives has kind of gotten away from that a little bit because there's so much fighting and drama that we're not really getting to see a bunch of their real life, you know, and how they live those aspirational lifestyles, but with someone like Heather, who is the real deal. That's why I love her on the show.

And I know she sometimes can be polarizing to people, but she really, it's. embodies that in a housewife. You know what I just kind of realized just now? Because I'm so brilliant. No. I remember one time asking somebody, why do you watch Hallmark movies? You know, they're so boring compared to like a lifetime movie,

but the same level of cheese. And someone said, because nothing ever bad happens on them and I don't have anxiety watching it. Like I would, a dateline or even a lifetime movie where the nanny, you know, tries to kill the mother or whatever. And I feel like that's the difference in the last eight years of housewives. it was fun. It was comfort. You'd watch a marathon of it and you'd go out and you'd almost feel like you were in it. You know what I mean? Like even like the real world back in the day. And now I think you watch it and it gives you anxiety. You have some anxieties for some people. Some people love that. Some people, you know, like I said, some people I like watching datelines and whatnots. I'm okay watching it. But when you go back and you saw them doing Angel Water and,

you know what I mean? And it was more their individual lives, but maybe the women would like kind of know each other. But they didn't have like conflict with each other. It was more like we're inside their home, seeing what their life is like. Yeah. That's what I think the difference is and I don't know that it could ever get back to that. Well, these are guilty pleasure type shows to begin with. But you're right. When you, all you see is drama, drama, drama. It's like you've eaten one too many chocolates. Yeah. You kind of feel sick to your stomach. Yeah. When we were doing the show, the recipe was really balanced in showcasing them as a mom, as a wife, as a business person, and then they would get together with these women. And then, of course, you would need a

little bit of drama and a little bit of comedy. I mean, I think that's what was so fun about the Trace Amigas when they would get a little tipsy. And it would be fun to, like, laugh with them. Yeah. Now, especially on a show like Salt Lake City, Housewives, where it's just like the screaming like the pitch of the scream yeah it's hard to digest that when it's just constant constant drama so with her yeah here's what i would say about jenshaw and i hear you once all this stuff came out i was like absolutely not but i actually liked her as a character and here's why she was the anchor of that show yeah she was the one that they're all vying now on the current season to be the head bitch in charge.

And I don't see it from anyone, really, other than Mary Cosby. Because for me, she's like, she's the comedic genius. Like, I don't think they use her enough. But I don't know. Like, I would love to see Jen back on the show just to see what that would elicit. But it sounds like Andy's been pretty clear that she is not coming back. Why do you think they're so against it when they've had so many criminals on the show as it is? And she actually did her time

I mean And if Karen Hugar Of Potomac after her fourth DUI Actually went and did her time And came back and got A standing ovation at BravoCon And people were like Yeah because she did her time

And we love her Like well then why Why not? I mean she's single Jen out Because she I mean Teresa went to jail Right

I think we're also with Karen Hugar Like she only heard a tree And herself And even with Shannon Bador Archie was okay, she hit a curb. Yeah. Like with this, they were real victims.

So no one died. They were real victims. Yeah. Though it's a little of a complicated thing to follow, which is why the audience then loses interest and they would forgive her if she came back. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if she made her way back onto the show. As much as they keep protesting that she is absolutely not coming back to the show. Because here's the thing.

What part of the reality is going to be. censored and for what reason. You just said all these other women have gone to jail and have done all these really bad things as well. Yes, she did something bad, but let's hear why. We never got to hear Jen's side of the story. And so wouldn't you want it to be from a Bravo show where she was able to finally tell her story and redeem herself? She did her time. She's paying restitution to these people. Listen, I don't agree with what she did at all. It's horrible. But when we're talking strictly from a cast perspective, she, imagine her walking into, I already have it in my mind, she would meet Heather and then Heather would. Heather Gay.

Heather Gay. And then they would do a surprise, like dinner where Jen would show up. Imagine what that would look like on that show. I think it would be genius. Yes, I agree. Do you think she'll do Dancing with the Stars? She's going to do something. I think it'll be the villain, like villains.

first, which I don't even think is that big of a hit. So maybe she should hold out for traitors. Oh, yeah. And then maybe something. I don't think dancing would bring her on until somebody somebody's got to be the first to do it. That's why I don't

know why Bravo wouldn't bring her on. Yeah. Or at least do a sit-down interview with her. Let her tell her side of the story. We never really heard it from her perspective. This is what she has to say. She has to say. I compartmentalized it and I told myself that what we were doing was not going to hurt anyone's

life and we were giving them hope and I didn't think it was, and I just did not think it was a big deal because also what they were taking was not millions, but to someone it was a big deal. So for some people it was like $3,000, for other people was $35,000, but there were so many of them. Yeah. So I think to her, what she could say is to me, because I lived a privileged life, I felt like we were just scraping off from a lot of people. And in the process, I was making the people that were stealing for the poor people a better life. And I know that's absolutely horrible, but I got rolled up in it. And she could also say, and I was supporting the whole Polynesian cultural center or whatever it was.

And like she, I don't know, she needs to come up, she had two years to come up with it. Yeah. So she's got to come up with it where she takes responsibility, but then she also says how she was able to wake up every morning and continue to do it. And even then a lot of people will still despise her. But at least she'll open the door to sort of, you know, make amends. Right. Okay. So what do you think about Wendy, Dr. Wendy and Happy Eddie.

they apparently they wanted to separate their cases and the judge said no and so I mean I would think the reason you want to separate your cases is just hope that one could blame the other or maybe they had a plan where Eddie would take the fall

and she could be with the kids but it seems pretty clear that they were 100% in it together from what the evidence that's out there so the judge is like no oh yeah I think your point about him taking the fall so that she could be at home with the kids is that that makes the most sense.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't think it looks good for these two. I think they're definitely going to do some time. Definitely. I just don't think you go this route unless you, even the little bit that we've seen is like done. You know what you were doing. They knew what they were doing.

The neighbors knew what they were doing. The streets knew what they were doing. I just wonder if with all her four degrees, if she's going to go another route of, the pressure of being on this show to look a certain way, throw the parties, do all this. I was a professor. We don't make a lot of money. When I'm on CNN as a talking head, it's for free.

You guys didn't pay me a lot. It's your fault, Bravo, that we had to do this. And not that she would, maybe she could sue. Who knows? Anyone can sue. But, like, will, because he's an attorney, So just watch. Some things are going to happen where it's going to be the blame is going to be completely shifted on we had to do this.

Oh, yeah. To keep up. 100%. But here's the argument against that. Right. She's got four degrees. She's a smart cookie. Well, this is why people say higher education doesn't matter anymore.

She knew what she was doing. Oh, sure. She knew what she was doing. That's what she's going to say. I knew what I was doing, but I had to do it. I had to do it. And I didn't think, again, stealing from an insurance company, per se, when we've paid this much a month, I didn't think it was that terrible of a crime. And I think, again, some people sitting at home might be like, yeah, you didn't kill anybody.

You didn't molest a kid. You know, okay. But just, I mean, I disagree. I think they're awful. I hate this kind of stuff. Teresa signed those papers that her husband put in front of her. And she went to jail. And so what was her, you know, I just don't see any, she can try to sue.

She can try to spin it any which way. She's just not as likable as a Teresa, too. No, she's not. She's not. So when we're, let's go back to Salt Lake real quick. So what, so you say you love Mary because she's funny. I agree. Anything, how do you feel about Whitney and her husband, Justin?

A lot of people think they're the next to. break up and get divorced. They are literally hanging on by a thread. And I wouldn't be surprised if not this season, then next season they go down because the scene on this past week's episode, he is so guilty. I mean, again, I go back to the camera never lies and you can see, even though he's not saying anything, his body language is like guilt, guilt, guilt. Guilt for how he screwed up the business or whatever.

How he screwed up the business and whatever he took from the business. And I think she's trying to hold it together for the kids. I, yeah, I think whatever this beauty line is, I don't really understand it. I don't know if she just like white labeled it, but because she had a name, Sephora was, could have been excited. He took her to the MLM route. It went nowhere because she's not, you know, she's not a dermatologist. She's not, I don't know.

I think it's very hard for these people to sell products. We had Shannon Madora's lemon pants and her sphinxer or whatever it was, her frozen fish. Sonia's toaster oven, candles, like things like that. Like the only one that's really made at work is Lisa Vaynerpom because she already was a restaurateur. And she already had successful things. And Bethany Frankel, I mean, I think she knew the assignment better than anyone.

She had in her head what she wanted to. used this platform for and she's super succeeded. And if you don't know, she'll tell you. Oh, she'll tell you. But I think going back to Whitney, it proves my point about the essence of these shows. And I think because we haven't really seen her with her kids being a mom, that it's almost like... Whitney, you mean? Yeah.

Yeah. It's kind of hard to invest in like feeling empathy for her with Jason. because I think, I'm sorry, Justin, when you see them mothering and being a mom, there's something a little bit more forgiving that you want to lean into. I always feel really badly for Brandy Glanville because her husband, Eddie, wouldn't let the boys be on the show. And she was always like, no one's seeing me like cook with them and do all these things. So it's just me dating guys, being drunk, whatever.

And yeah, you kind of, and same, you know, same with Tamara. And she couldn't have the kids on all those years. You get to see the softer side. And I think you can relate to them a little bit more when you see them as a mom. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I mean, it is very entertaining. Lisa Barlow. What do you think her deal is?

Does she have these businesses or not? What's up with it? I think she has probably some of her businesses. But there's another marriage that is in real trouble. Yeah. And her husband looks like deer in headlights. Right. And I feel for him.

But I think he's finally trying to grab his voice on some level. But she, she's a piece of work. Well, I saw the four of them together, Meredith, Seth, and Lisa and John. And they were all together. And it looked like they were having fun. So hopefully they're not going to let this, like, end their family and their marriage. But, like, it's, and then Bronwyn and Todd, I mean, that has got to. go. So I actually didn't really care for Bronwyn in the beginning, because I felt like every

time she came out, she was wearing couture, or the couture was wearing her. Or the blow-up costumes. I mean, it just got one. How annoyed was you? He was like, oh, we have to film at the airport again. Again, I just got off a 10-hour flight and I have to be like, oh, what are you today? A sloth? Yeah. All right. Let's deflate you before we get in the car. I mean, that's my point about he's, he does. Do you really think she did that before the show aired? No. Neither do I.

No. And not all the time. I really think every week she's coming in a different, when he doesn't love it. He's like, hi. Like, she's like, he loves it. Todd loves it when I dress up into us. He doesn't love it. No, he doesn't love it.

He probably would be just fun hopping in an Uber and you're not even picking him up. But how gross is it to imagine that. kissing some girl while he's farting. Like, the whole story just, like, if I was the producer on that show, I would have such a tough time with, like, dealing with a man like that. Like, imagine what my job was like, Heather, when I would not only have to produce the women and their children, but then I had the element of the husbands. That was not fun.

The one I would say that I really respected the most was Don Gumbullsen and Slade. Because they were, they were just respectful people and they understood the process of being on a TV show and they understood their roles. Some of these husbands come on and it's like they can't give their wife the spotlight. Like just step behind them. This is your wife's time to shine, you know, with the exception of Joe Gorga, because we all love him, right? We all feel like he's a housewife, which is, I think, a big reason why they keep Melissa on the show is because they get Joe, so they get two for the price of one. So true. Going back to what I was going to say about housewives when you had it, the infamous scene of when Tamara and Simon's marriage where she just had fucking had it in the limo, where she's like, you're fucking asshole, I'm going to divorce you.

And he was just like, you said you'd go bowling with the kids. She's like, I had an event with Vicky, which I think, without breaking the fourth wall, it was probably something housewives related. It was. And again, he was like resentful that she was not only, you know, becoming a star and being on TV, but, you know, that she wanted to do these things. So I was there that morning. That was our, the day of our final party, the finale.

And he was just being a dick to her. he didn't like the outfit she had that she was going to put on like the the bickering had gone beyond just like the normal bickering because he was so controlling for her and but i noticed the change in her like her tone back to him because she used to cover for him a lot on camera she would play the doting wife and then when the cameras were off you know they'd have their fights or whatever but on this particular day i just remember it and my whole being was like we got to follow this because something's going to go down in the limo. So I threw a producer and a camera in their limo ride over... Because normally you wouldn't? Well, back then, I only had a certain amount of cameras. So I had to follow where I thought the action was or where the story was taking us. So we'd shoot a little with this one and then the camera would move and go shoot a little of this one.

When we used to shoot them getting ready for these events, because you would always get some gold moments in those moments. But I knew there was something here. So I had the producer and the camera guy get in the car with them. And as soon as the producer came and he grabbed me and he's like, oh, my God, she just asked Simon for a divorce. So all the cameras now were following that story. But those are those moments. Like as a producer, I am an intuitive. So I am an intuitive producer.

So I would go with what my gut and what my feelings were. And I just knew that that was coming But that was like one of the most iconic moments That season It was because it's like you just You felt it and you knew it And Now you, so you weren't there when she was

She was the first housewife to do a bathtub scene Oh yeah, no With Eddie Were you there for the bathtub with Eddie? So let me just clear something up For all of those people who wonder if Eddie's gay Eddie is not gay I don't wonder it

I don't know where this... I've been saying this from the very beginning. I'm like, do you know how much easier Eddie's life could have been if he was gay? If Eddie was gay, A, he would be gay. And B, do you really think someone like Tamara would be married to a guy that was gay? Absolutely not. I was there. Tamara wanted to do something romantic to introduce Eddie to the audience.

He was so nervous. And I didn't blame him. I mean, it was his first time. really being on camera. So, um, I did a shot of tequila with him. Yeah. As he was doing pushups. Yeah. Getting ready for that scene. But that scene was all, I know people think it was kind of cringe and maybe it was, but that's what she wanted to do. Right. Well, then following it was in, uh, Salt Lake was when Whitney and Justin did the roll around, um, painting or whatever it was. Uh, what do you call that thing where you when you do the hands on the spots.

What do you call that? You know what I mean? Where it's like all the circles. Anyway, it was like that. And allegedly, that's, or not allegedly, I think she said it. That's how he lost his executive position at whatever MLM he was working at because of that. And so, yeah, where does that come up? How does a producer convince somebody to get in their underwear?

and do a sexy paint scene. Well, it has, here's the thing. The stories originate from the women. Okay. So we, that's, we constantly. She must have said we did that or, yeah. Or this is something we do to sort of like show our love for each other or our sexy time or whatever it was. Yeah.

Like for the bathtub scene, Tamara wanted to do something really romantic for Eddie and that, she came up with that. We didn't come up with that. Yeah. Because any time we. you would try to come up with a story. It wouldn't be organic. Right. And that was something that Bravo was really, they wanted it to be as authentic and organic as possible. So we would make stories out of what they would come and give to us. Yeah. Right. It always originated with the women. When I was producing the show, now I see elements of stuff that I'm not quite sure is so organic. Right. I definitely think it's changed since you've done it. And I think a lot of this, stuff with the costumes and whatnot, every party being like a costume-related party, which does make for a more entertaining scene when they're wearing George Washington wigs and things like that. So I kind of get it. Like if she, you know, why someone would be like, oh, you know,

it could be fun if you did this kind of a theme or whatever. I mean, in real life, no, women get together at the four seasons and they have lunch. Nobody's doing costumes. But, wait, I wanted to talk about before we go back to the last thing. is then you left OC because you had an opportunity to either produce real housewives of Beverly Hills or real housewives of Miami. And do you think this was one of your worst decisions in your life that you chose Miami?

Oh, Heather. Well, guess what, guys, Jack did answer that question. And then we got into a lot of things that are just too juicy for the regular show. So you got to go over and enjoy my Friday Patreon to hear the rest of this interview. Thank you so much. and you go to heatherbiddle.net to get that.

And now, Jack, tell us where they can get more of you and everything that you talk about on TikTok. Yeah, so my TikTok is new. It just started like a month ago. Yeah. And it's at Tarantino Files. And, you know, I started it because of all the shows I've produced, Heather, the ones that I get asked about all the time still to this day are the housewives.

Right. because of, you know, how big they are. And so people are just really curious about, you know, how these shows work and what they're like. And I feel like I have a rare point of view because I've also been a network executive. Like I was an executive at the Style Network and I was an executive at TLC for a long time. So I feel like I have that cross experience of being both in the field making television and the being the ones that sort of buy the shows. And I just, I love it.

I mean, when I first met my husband, he didn't watch any of the shows. And can I tell you, when we watch the show, I can't get him to shut up. Now when you watch new episodes. And I have to stop the show because I'm like, listen, I have to talk about this show on my TikTok tomorrow. And I can't hear what they're saying because you're so invested in it. So now he's a huge fan of it as well. So, yeah, so I started the TikTok about a month ago, and I'm having a blast.

It's so much fun. Oh, good. Well, I'm so glad you came. You'll have to come back. I'll come back. Maybe, like, when there's, like, in a couple weeks with the reunions and stuff like that, or Beverly Hills. Let's talk Beverly Hills next time you come. Okay.

And everything else. And so everybody, thank you so much. Go to Heatherbondon.com. Join my Patreon. Love you. Bye.