Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Cheryl Hines on Hollywood Backlash, RFK, Curb and Comedy

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Cheryl and I became friends in 1996 in LA. We begin by laughing and reminiscing about Cheryl’s cheating ex and our time together at The Groundlings theater. Cheryl explains how she was cast in Curb Your Enthusiasm and how her career took off. Nothing is off limits from her divorce to why she loves RFK aka Bobby. We get into how Hollywood turned on her and how once very close friends refuse to speak to her anymore. Cheryl’s memoir Unscripted is coming out Nov. 11 and available for pre order. Get it! It’s so juicy, funny and poignant. -Use code JUICYSCOOP at ⁠https://jonesroadbeauty.com⁠ to get a Free Cool Gloss with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty #ad -For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to ⁠https://nutrafol.com⁠  and enter the promo code JUICYSCOOP Get Cheryl's book "Unscripted" here: https://a.co/d/hqX5pZj Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Scoop is the show to know she talks Hollywood Tales for real life Mr. Sagan's serial data and serial sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo. Hannah McDonald's. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, I am very excited for our guest because she is a star, an author. a sister and daughter a mother and a wife

and she is my friend we met in 1996 at the Groundlings please welcome Cheryl Hines Hello Heather Hello hello I have the book

Looking gorgeous unscripted Everybody needs to go right now and pre-order it because you guys It's juicy It's good I unfortunately

I've only got to page 200 because I just got it a couple days ago. And, but my God, it's great. It's really a good, fun, interesting, juicy read. Thank you. So. Yeah, I wanted it to be like I'm just telling a friend. Yeah.

This is what's happened. It's crazy. And it is so crazy. And, you know, for people that don't really know your life. Yeah. So, you know, you came from just a really close-knit family, middle class. Yeah. from what part of Florida?

Tallahassee or Orlando, yeah. And then you eventually went to college and made your way to L.A. We met at the groundlings, and I was trying to remember, I think I was in the Sunday show already for like six months, and then I think you were in it.

I think that's right. And we were in it for about a year together. And then I did not go on past 18 months. But you became a regular member, right? Yes. Okay, good for you. Well, look at where we are now. Okay.

So. But we wrote a lot together. No, we did. You used to make me laugh. Yeah, because you were already in and you knew the ropes. And then we would say, you know, you want to write together and you would say, I need you to show up with three good ideas. Did I really say that? Yes.

And I was like, Jesus. Okay. Well, I'm doing my best. You know what? That's so funny. Like how different. Okay, this is going to be a fun episode because there's probably going to be a lot of different memories that made me. Maybe match up and maybe don't.

Uh-huh. Because for me, I love funny people, but I am a shallow bitch. And I like a pretty friend. And I saw you walk in and I'm like, now that's a girl I could hang outside of this dorky theater with. Like I'm like, this girl can go to some fun spots with me. And we did. She is pretty enough to hang. Oh, my gosh, we did.

We did. So. Oh, my gosh. Now that you're saying, it's like, memories are coming back. Okay, go ahead. So I was like, do you want to go to the sky bar with me? What is that hotel now? Is that the Mondrian still?

I don't know. But Stindy Crawford's husband, before they were married, Gerber, he owned it. And it was just a hot spot because you were outside and was on sunset. It was beautiful. And overlooks the city. And it was really the place. And it was very hard to get in. But I had figured out a way to get it.

to which I would call this number with an English accent and I'd say, hello, I'm calling. I've got a few girls coming in from New York from the forward modeling agency that would like to enjoy the sky bar. Can I put their names down? And then I'd put our real names down because you have to show IDs, whatever. And so I picked you up and you were living with, you talk about your fun, for some of friends. Your two gay best friends, Paul and Eric, and Eddie, sorry, Paul and Eddie, sorry, Paul and Eddie. and then also your two roommates that you got a couple years into struggling in L.A.

Yeah. And you come out and you go, can I, I think you said, can I bring them both or something? And I was like, no, because I did this weird fake thing and I only have the certain names or whatever. And I am telling you throughout the last, so that would have been 1996, so almost 30 years, did it it's haunted me that that was so mean because maybe you ran out you're like oh god really and I was like yeah

and I was always like God she was so nice I wonder if she ever just like thought that that was super bitchy of me I you know I don't remember that at all good see that's what I'm saying that's so many times people like as you get older you know and it's why you got to give some people some grace and stuff because you're like no I was not even thinking

of that whatever but well I'm good I'm glad. Yeah. Because then I saw one of the girls when you came to Chelsea and she's still working with you. Maria. And she was such a delight. Yeah. Yeah.

She could have come to the sky bar. It wouldn't have mattered. Well, you know, she probably, you're right, though, because at that time, you really did. Your name had to be on the list. Yeah. And they were not letting people in. And, you know, I didn't know how the whole system worked and you were like, no, you got to do this. And I said, okay.

But they were fine with it, too. They were like, oh, okay. And then do you remember we met some two guys? and ended up back in their hotel room. Yes. But we did escape with clothes on. Nothing too much. What was it?

So, guys, you were like, I have to get out of here. Was it a guy sucking your toe or something? I think he did want, he was, he did want, yeah, he was doing something odd. And I was like, this is, this can't be a good Saturday night. I need to go. But we went, but we, you know, we got there together. So I remember one time when we were at the Skybar, and these guys ordered a bottle of Dom, Perry on.

Oh, yes. That's good. And I was chewing gum, and you put your hand out, and you were like, spit out your gum. You were not chewing that and drinking the champagne at the same time. And I was like, okay. See, like, that time of stuff, I don't remember. But I remember us doing some funny, really funny sketches.

And you sent me one of, like, remember this on a DM. And it was, we decided, but we did a sketch that our job was to test deodorant. We had to smell people's armpits. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, just, I mean, I don't know how long ago. Pretty recently I came across an article where there were women, you know, smelling people's armpits. And I said to you, I was like, Heather, this was us.

And then we had the guys, you know, when we did the sketch, they were so sweaty in, like, tank tops. And we would go, oh, actually, I'm smelling some aluminum. A little bit of lavender. You know, we were very serious about it. It just really made me laugh. Oh, my gosh. So, I mean, you, what's great is, you know, you share those, those struggling times. And one of the articles in your book is that you dated a non-theater entertainment person for quite a while.

Yeah. The investment banker while you were the struggling bartender. Yeah. I find that story to be so interesting because it's, there's that moment where you kind of are like, oh, what if he had, She did. And what if I had married him? I know. Would I had been satisfied just being a wife and mother and living in the suburbs and doing the country club life? Right. Like, that's so interesting because I've thought about similar things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think about that because I was so in love with him at the time. And he, you know, was, I want to say normal. But, you know, when you're in this industry, everybody is a little crazy. Yeah. And if they're not, then they're not. not going to make it because it's a crazy industry, right? So, but he would, he would always, like I said in the book, we would drive by Starbucks and it would drive him crazy that people are just sitting out there drinking coffee at two in the afternoon. He's like, does anybody in this

town have a job? They are trying to get one, but they're just having a latte while they're figuring it out. But he's to drive him crazy. I used to love to go there. And when you'd have the paper script that someone would send you know that the agents would actually have a run or drop it off at your apartment and then I could go to Starbucks on Montana in Santa Monica and look like I had some major shit going on you'd open your scripts yeah highlight those were the days simpler times but with that guy I was like wait a minute as we're getting to the book I'm like I feel like you might have left out a juicier part or is that a different point was there a story where you found a used That's him. It was. Okay. I didn't put that part in my book because I thought, I don't know if people want to hear about a used condom. Yeah, we do. Because I want to say, didn't you do something kind of like badass about it? Well, I, you know, I had a key to his apartment. He had a key to my apartment. I was going to go see him. We decided we should take one night off because we were together too much. So you go out with your friends. I'll go out with my friends. And then when I went over,

over to his apartment the next Sunday. He wasn't there, but as soon as I walked in, I was like, whoa, something feels weird here. Something weird has happened here. And I called one of my friends, and I said, I think, Charlie, cheated. And she said, why would you even think that? I go, I don't even know. I just feel it. I feel it in this apartment. And she said, well, when he comes back, just say, is there anything you want to tell me? And I said, okay, that's good. That's good. And then I took a shower. And then when I turned my hair over to put a towel on my wet hair, I could see in his trash can a used condom.

And I called her and I said, okay. I know he cheated. I was really devastated. But I packed all of my stuff. I put it in my car and just waited. And, you know, he's a golfer. And I remember he had like a, I don't know, three iron. or something by his fireplace.

And he had this huge window that overlooked the beach. And I just sat there. That's a sad place to leave when you get into your little crappy car with, were you in the garage at that point? Did you have wigs in the back door? The thing about with the growlings is it's a lot of wigs. A lot of wigs. There's always like five wigs and like a G string in my back,

like in a weird outfit. Wig caps. Yeah, your car was like a giant dirty purse. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a red Toyota to herself. But I had no air connection. I had a road silica.

Okay, continue. But I kept looking at that window and I was like, gosh, I wish I was one of those people that would just, I really wanted to smash his friggin picture window. But then, you know, I kept. I mean, that you didn't. I know. Because that would have made the news during the recently. But during now? What a crazy bitch you are.

I would, but I was like, oh, I see how people, I see how like. Somebody could just be so hopped up on adrenaline to do something like that. Then I thought, well, then he'll have a shattered window and then how is he going to fix it? And that's a lot of money. And, you know, this is what I'm thinking about while I'm waiting for him to come back. Yeah. And then I said, do you want to tell me anything about last night? He's like, no.

I said, oh, really? There nothing interesting happened? No. Really? Because I'm pretty sure you had sex with someone else. He was like, no, I didn't. I was like, oh, my God. I said, well, I'm going to stop talking to you if you're not going to be truthful because there's no point in this conversation.

I will just leave. And, you know, at that point, like, the, you know, the cabinets were open and the drawers were open because I was so mad when I packed all my stuff. And he's looking around like, I don't know what's going on. I know. Huh? And. He said your period. Yeah.

period. Why you're, I think crazy. How long you'd been dating him at this point? Two years. That's very significant. He had moved. He had moved from New York. To be. Yeah. To be together. That's very significant. Yeah. And you're at the age where like marriage is probably pending. I was, I was 29. Yeah. Like that's, yeah. And I said, and I said, well, okay, well, let's just cut to the chase. You clearly had sex with someone last night. He's like, why would you say? that um because of the use condom that I can see in your trash and he was like that's my roommates I was like oh okay so your roommate had sex with somebody then walked into your bathroom that you have to go through your bedroom to get to your bathroom to take off his condom and something's not tracking and um but that I you know I I guess he he did finally admit it and um and i just left and i said i never want to see you again that i talked about in the book that it's yeah it was hard really hard it was so hard it was sad that i talk about i was working at

that hotel um and one of the uh security guards who was this giant 300 pound guy who was very sweet to me and he you know he's walking me to me to my car and he said but you know what's going on, you seem so sad. And I said, yeah, you broke up with my boyfriend. He asked me what happened. And I told him. And he said, I could take him out. I was like, what do you mean? Take him out. He said, yeah, I know a guy that could take him out. And he was dead serious. 100% dead serious. And I said, oh. Your life really could have gone so many different ways. That's what's about the book. Like, literally, if you would have been like, you know what? Yeah. Fuck him. Yeah. Yeah. Now what?

Now I'm like, Cheryl, it's me, Heather. I'll tap on the phone. There's more we're doing the interviews now. There's a glass. We're putting our hands up to touch each other. You know, you're 30 years. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I said, no, I definitely do not want you to do that. But thank you. And he said, okay, where does he work? And tell me his full name. And I said, why? He said, because I'll just wait for him in the parking lot and take out his knee with the crowbar. I was like, my God, that is so nice of you.

But I'm going to say no. I will never tell you his name or where he worked. Yeah, that's amazing. The other funs, there's so many fun stories, but the other things of things that I didn't know was the $2,000 pyramid skiing. Do you remember that time in L.A.? Yes, I do because actually my husband,

when we watched a documentary in the last few years that was about the beach thing where this woman was murdered, they didn't know if it was her estranged husband or if it was someone pissed about that pyramid thing. The pyramid scheme. It was a pyramid scheme where, in a nutshell, you put in $2,000 and then you get other people to and other people too. And then eventually you can walk away with like $60,000.

But just like any pyramid scheme, whether you're selling clothing or whatever, when everybody in the neighborhood has done it, there's no fresh meat. And then the people at the bottom are just out two grand. Because they don't have the new, they don't have new people, but they don't have wealthy enough people to tap into. They don't have the relatives and all that stuff. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah.

And so your friends did well with it. Yes. They went through a few times, Paul and Eddie. And I was so, this was after, you know, cheating Charlie. And I was so down, so down. I was just like, I had no joy in my life. I was, and my sister Becky, who is still, you know, is in Florida. She was talking to me.

And the only time I would sort of come. come alive is when I would talk about the pyramid scheme because I was watching them and it was so exciting. Yeah. I mean, people would dress up. They go to. Yeah, the dinner, like a house dinner party, right? It was like a warehouse. It was a warehouse. I mean, I think there were different versions of it, right? Depending on your pyramid. Yeah. If you had a classy one or not. And I think Peter my husband was approached at Q's. Remember Q's the pool hall on Wilshire? Did he do it? If he did, it was one of those things It was very little money and he realized

Like this is wrong and this is scheme But he knew like a couple guys That it was getting scary Like their scamming was And he was just like, I don't want to be part of this Yeah Because before I knew him Yeah

Well I mean you figure Anything that's called a pyramid scheme They weren't even trying to call it something else I mean like I don't remember any other name for it It wasn't like you know The group or something. Right. Yeah. And so I, so my sister who had no money, she had no money. I don't, to this day, I don't know how she got $2,000 in cash, but she did and she sent it to me.

And I was so excited, dressed up. Pollinetti took me to the party and, you know, it was, it was, that you would tap somebody on the shoulder and then you go into a little private part of the room and you give them the $200,000 cash. I mean, $200,000. 2000. And then that would get you started on your pyramid scheme. But then mine's solved because I was not good at it. I'm not, you know, people will be like, well, should I borrow money from my mom? And I'd say no. Jesus, no. But that's what you're supposed to do if you want to be successful at this. You have to just like a sign, tell you whatever, max that every credit card, do whatever it takes. Because in the end, it's all going to work out. Yeah. I didn't have a good hustle.

Yeah. I was just like, no, this is, it's not going to end well. You definitely shouldn't do this. Yeah. And even Paul and Eddie said, yeah, we're not going to join your pyramid. You're terrible at this. We've got our own thing going. Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing. So then that was before the groundlings. Before you got to the performing part of the groundlings. And then I remember when, you know, this is, we were friends before. is Instagram and Facebook and all that stuff. So we were like on the phone talking friends. Yeah. And it would be so stressful when you'd find out how many scenes you were going to be in on Sunday.

And then we'd all like bitch and complain about it and talk about like, why did that one get in? And who's da-da-da-da. And one of the things was, and you've talked about it in the book, that really it was such a great showcase. And, you know, back in those days, people, we didn't, we couldn't just do really great TikToks or or, or, send a video of us doing stand-up to an agent. Right. Like, they had to be there. They had to be there.

They had to come on, you know, a Sunday at 5 o'clock. And so there'd be times where they'd be like, oh, my gosh, you know, I've got an agent coming. Yeah. And you were like, beg, can I get one more bit? You know, because it'd be like 18 scenes. And then other people would be like, well, I want to shine and maybe that agent would pick me.

Yeah. And that did happen to me when it was in stand-up. And stand-up. I paid $64 for all these agents to come. It was like the final thing, if they were going to sign me or not. And right before I went on was this really funny guy, who's a friend of mine, and he did well. And so right after he went on, they called him over to sit at the booth and talked to him the whole time while I was on stage, and then they signed him. That's so awful. There were just so many stories like that. But you had a successful story because you were on stage

doing a really funny bit that you also wrote and the casting person saw you that was looking to cast the wife of Larry David. Yes, yes. Yeah. And that was amazing.

And that was just, what people don't know, that was just like a one hour like special to kind of... Right. Curb your enthusiasm started out. Yeah, it's a one hour special like a stand-up doing

a one-hour special stand-up. Now I remember that was so funny where he says he's going to do it And then the whole thing was at the end, he's like, what the fuck am I doing? I don't have an act. I'm not doing this. It was so, to me as a stand-up, I thought it was the most brilliant, funny thing. Yeah.

And then to see you in it. And I remember I called you. Like, I remember where I was when I called you and I was like, oh, my God, congratulations. You were so great in that. And I remember you were like, and I go, and this is tacky. I don't know if I asked you or if you told me, but you told me what you got paid. Yeah, I got nothing. I don't even remember what I.

I do. You do? Can I just say it? I don't see why not. 7,000. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that sounds right. Because I remember, I go, oh, that's how much they're getting at S&L per week.

Really? Oh, I didn't know that. How much they were getting first year was 7,000 a week. I like remember weird stuff. So anyway, and then I think you told me then, but here's the secret, Heather, they're going to make it a series. Yeah. And I was so exciting. Yeah, because when I did that, when I were special, I asked my agent, I said, is it possible that this would turn

into a show. And he's like, no. I said, okay, that's fair. And then when I was at the Groundlings, somebody, and I don't remember who, you know, a writer or a producer, somebody came up and said, oh, yeah, I hear they're going to make it into a series. I said, oh, that's great. I haven't heard that. Nobody's told me. So I just waiting, waiting to, you know, for the call. Yeah. Always waiting for the call. And so he calls you and he says, okay, It's going to be made into a series. And obviously you're thrilled. That is all of our dreams.

It's your dream. All of our dreams was to get a television series. Yeah. That you had a place to go. Yeah. That you had a regular paycheck. Yeah. And that you could do your thing.

Yeah. That's all we ever wanted in that 99 person. That's the dream. Only 99 people could even sit in that place. And there was 18 of us in Sunday show. We couldn't sell it out. It's like our friends were like, I saw it last week in the week.

before. Can I have a break? No. But I would go to the show. I went to the sky bar one night. I don't know if you're with me or not. And I met Vince Fogg. I remember. And he did come. I know. And I couldn't believe he was there. I was like, yeah, come. He was really interested in it because he was obviously into comedy. And then

all of a sudden we're in between scenes and I'm backstage and one of the main company members comes in the back where our green room is or whatever, our dressing room. And he's like, oh, that guy from Swingers is upstairs. I'm like, oh, you didn't know he was going to be there? I just Yeah, I didn't know that he would come

Put it out there I called I mean I gave him I said I'm going to be there Whatever tomorrow night And and then like And then we like went on a few dates I made out with them and stuff

I know I remember that from your book Oh I remember that for reading my book I love your book I love her blue balls I love reading all of my friend's books I can't imagine a friend Even if you're not close writing a book And you don't bother to read it

Like how are you not so fucking curious Oh my God Heather When you wrote about the marching band the marching band uniform in the closet and you freaked out because you were like you were in the marching band a guy I was dating yeah

that made me laugh so I was like only Heather is mad that he was in the marching band because it's not cool and he didn't tell you like you didn't even have a chance to reject him on that on that alone

you were in too deep by the time you learned it and it was like I didn't even I didn't even even get to tell you no, because you're in the marching band. Oh, God. And so, I mean, Caribbean Thees had was such a great show. And also, I want to say, not to belittle the work of it, but what a great, honestly, easy job in that you are improvving. You're not memorizing your lines. You're not doing a million takes. Like, when I guest started on Reno 911, I felt the same way. And then when we did after lately, which was modeled kind of out.

after Reno 911 curb of like a, you know, or the office, well, the office is scripted, but more like a curb was, yeah, you do it a few times and that's it. I know. And you can improv and, I mean, how fun. No, Susie Esmond and I used to always look at each other and say, oh my God, this is the best job.

Anybody could ever have. No lines to memorize. I mean, yeah, usually when you're working, you have really early calls. Yeah. And you're up all night just like, got to get these lines down. I mean, even, you know, I remember a lot of time just sitting in traffic just going over my lines, going over my lines. But yes, curb was all improvised.

So even for the first three seasons, I didn't get to look at the story outlines. Larry would write a three to five page story outline. But he didn't want me to see them. So I would, when I would get to work, I would say, can anybody tell me? me what this show is about. And they'd say, no, you'll find out. Larry will tell you what he wants you to know. Like, okay.

And then in it, you know, you guys get divorced. Yeah. And I, was that because in his real life he got divorced? Like, why did that divorce happen? I think he, you know, he told me that he wanted to do stories about dating. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, yeah, I remember that call, too, because he called me.

He's like, well, you know, I've got some good news and bad news, mostly bad news for you. I was like, great. He said, you know, we are going to do another season, but you're not going to be in it. At all? So you weren't in that season at all? Yeah, there was one season I wasn't in when they went to New York. And I said, okay, you know, I mean, I was doing, I was doing other things. Yeah, you were getting.

You got a bunch of movies. Yeah, I did movies. I did, you did RV. Yeah. You did, waitress. Yeah, you were getting a lot. Now, were those movies, because now your established name, were they being offered and do you still have to read an audition? They were being offered.

But I had to meet, you know, meet and talk to the director to see if, and, you know, you have to talk about the script in a knowledgeable way. Yeah. You know, talk about how you see your character. But completely different, right, than auditioning is so hard, isn't it? Oh, I'm a horrible auditioner. I one time heard that people were doing beta blockers, so their nerves would like, I'd get so, like, and it's so much about, like, getting ready, driving over there. And, like, I really didn't totally memorize, and I, because I, some acting teacher told me not to it wrong, memorize it, know it inside and out. Yeah.

And you can still hold the script, but. Yeah. But de-memorize it. It's so much better, yeah. And so, and then, like, when you'd see your friends in the waiting room, and I always remember being like, oh, isn't that nice that those two girls are so, like, classy and they realize, like, it's not my part. If you get it, it's not, it's not in God's plan.

Because I'm like, fuck. I want it. Or when the casting director would come out and hug the girl. One of them. Only one of them. They go way back, and they're laughing. And they're like, I'm coming to your birthday on Saturday. I know you're not.

And I'm like, oh, fuck. I know. No, I remember Jennifer Coolidge. We were both auditioning for, is how long ago it was, right? What was that something around the sun? Oh, with the aliens? Yeah. Yeah, with Kristen.

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember the name. Third rock from the sun. Third rock from the sun, yeah. And so it was a guest role. Yeah, was a guest role. And when I got there, I see Jennifer Coolidge, he was amazing, right? and she's literally clipping in hair extensions while she's talking to me before she goes in.

And she said, what is going on here? I said, what do you mean? She goes, oh, all the, you know, all the girls are just like looking at their scripts. And I said, well, you know, it's an audition. A lot of people want to get their line. And she's like, I guess I should have, yeah, maybe I should have memorized it or something. And she went in And she's still clipping in her

She doesn't seem to have a care in the world, right? Yeah. She goes in And it was on the other side of the door So you could hear if somebody, if they laughed, you could hear it. But you couldn't hear what they were saying, but you could hear if they laughed. She went in.

It seemed like they laughed from the moment she went to the moment she left. And the rest of us are looking at each other. Like, do you have the same? Yeah. We all have the same scripters. hers just really funny and she got the part and then later when I saw her at the groundlings I said what was your take on on the script because they were laughing so hard

and I did not you know it wasn't that didn't seem that funny she said she said well when I went in they said oh we've been dying to work with you for 10 years and I said you can go yourself. You've had 10 years to call me. And she said they laughed and laughed and she got the part. But I also had really good. But I also had such an anxiety about like thinking that if I did anything wrong, it would ruin it. I know. It would ruin. And I'm like, and then I realize later on and I always tell people this with advice or whatever, I'm like, just know that you go, if you go out for any kind of job, acting whatever, any kind of date. The other person wants it to be you. Yeah.

They don't want to continue the search. That's not fun. Yes. That is important to remember. And I think so many times people walk in thinking the world is against them somehow. Yeah. And the casting director. Yeah.

Or like you're saying, if you're going to interview for a job, they want you to be so great because they want, they want you to walk out and say, wow, we just found that person. Right. Yeah. But for a long time, you're right. I felt like that too. There's so much self-doubt. Yeah. Well, you feel like, I have to go prove myself and they probably don't want me, but I have to go talk them into it.

Yeah. it's not, that's not really the case. Right. People want, people want to like you. They're the ones that called you in. Yes. I also remember Jennifer said to me, Jennifer Kulidh, she goes, if the part says, because we would get those breakdowns and you could read them. The part says, attractive, I can do it. If it says very attractive, no.

She goes, but if it says character looking, then I'm better looking than the character, then I get the part, then I really get the part because I'm just a little bit cuter than what they were expecting, but it can be funny. Oh my gosh. Yeah, she's so great. Yeah, she's really, you know, so talented. But also her attitude is fantastic. It's so, such a good attitude.

Yeah, I remember I, we talked on the phone and during her height of the White Lotus and I couldn't believe like she answered my DM and we talked because it had been years, you know, but when I didn't make the main company, she's the night before I, realized I didn't make the main company is who I had a conversation with. And she was like, let me tell you, Heather, sometimes people get in this company and they stay and they become fucking freaks. She's like, so if you don't get it, just know you're in great company. Like, you're a great, because you could be really comfortable, you know.

Yeah. When did you, because I don't know the answer to this. When did you, I don't explain grounding some people, but it's 30 spots. And of those 30 spots, you can continue to perform on stage. in the Friday and Saturday long run show. If you give that spot up, you could still come back and teach, do a Thursday, but you can't be in that.

So people that felt it was very important that they had that showcase, sometimes held on to it way longer. Like they're on S&L, they're on a WB sitcom, they're on a bus. Yeah. And you're like, can you get the spot up for this person?

Yeah, for somebody coming out. So how did you decide, like, okay, well, I think my career is in a good enough spot that I can give up the brown list. Yeah, well, when Curb, I got Curb, when I, I think I was in the Sunday company, maybe the Sunday company and, but I, you know, hadn't come out. I don't even know if I had shot it yet, but so when I got into the main company, I was shooting Curb. But, but, but Curb was only shooting 10 episodes and Larry said, this is, we're only doing one season, you know, nobody needs. needs to get excited.

So I'm right. Yeah. So I did the first, I think I did, I stayed in at least for a year. And then when Kerb, it was clear that we were going to do another season and the show was, you know, I would say critically acclaimed, you know, was getting attention and a golden globe. And, you know, it was clear that it was on a path. that's when I I didn't stay in the main company for very long because that's when I stepped down.

Yeah, because you're a classy lady and you care about others and you're like, I don't need this platform. But, you know, you work so hard to get there. You work so hard to get there that you don't want to give it up. And there's nothing, nothing's for sure. Nothing's for sure.

But that growlings, you can stay until you're 90. Yeah. So you had Lisa Kudrow as a team. teacher. I had her for intermediate. You did? Yeah. Did you love her? I loved her. And it was, and funny story about that, which I told on the show before, whatever, Cheryl hasn't heard it. Anywhere, quickly. So she was a teacher. She was, we had a lot of substitutes because she was on mad about you as the waitress. And then she said, I'm going to step down from the main company. And I was like, why? And she was, well, I got this pilot. And I was like, honey. A lot of

Yeah, it might not get picked up. And she goes, I go, what's it even about? She's like, it's about six friends living in New York. And I just remember, I just imagine, like, heard a bunch of people like on a subway. And I'm like, this sounds awful. She goes, I go, I don't know. Like, you're sure you want to do this, you know? At the time she was only like 31. And I go, and she goes, well, it's following Seinfeld. And I go, okay, you know what? I'll pray for you. Yeah, good luck with that little project. you've got to bet on yourself you've got to have the confidence of yourself yeah cooler days call for layers that last and quince is my go-to for quality essentials that feel cozy look refined and won't blow your budget guys i'm talking a $50 mongolian cashmere premium denim honestly the best pair of jeans i've ever i'm loving it i also love their luxed outerwear so i just got an incredible wool-cold because I am planning on going to the East Coast this fall, and I need that chic, fabulous coat. And listen, that is an expensive buy, but these look designer level, and they cost a fraction of

the price. And the quality, honestly, is just as good, if not better. I'm absolutely loving. I got a camel-colored wool coat. I'm going to look so chic with my jeans and my cashmere sweater. I'm going to have a whole quince look that just screams quiet luxury. Find your fall staples at quince. Go to quince.com. slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 days returns now available in Canada 2 that's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash juicy so when you met your first husband the father of your daughter Catherine who goes by cat now he was a manager I'm curious in that pairing of falling in love

with him did that elevate your career because he knew what he was doing? Was he putting you in even a better stratosphere than you already were as just a regular on a show? I would say yes. He wasn't my manager for a long time, but he was very helpful in guiding me and say, you know, curb your enthusiasm is a very specific show. And you should, you know, you have a lot of time off in between. seasons. So you should be going in for films. And even if you can't do another TV show, because at that point I couldn't because of curb, you should be doing other things. And my agent at the time, I remember him saying this. He said, and I said that to my agent. I wasn't

with a big agency then. Still, even though you're in curb. No one was trying to poach you? Uh, they were, but I, but I said, no, I, I, I want to be, stay with this agent. I want to be loyal because you're a classy lady. And, and I said, um, I would like to go and do films in between. And, um, he said, that's not really how it works. He's like, you're on TV and that doesn't happen. I, I said, and at the time, I remember Kelsey Grammer had just done a film. I said, Kelsey Grammer just did a film. And he said, you're no. Kelsey Grammar. I was like, and then it would go home and tell Paul and his brain would explode. He was like, oh, my God, now I'm going to have to call the agent. So he did a lot of work where he would call the agent or he would, if he knew about a project, he, you know, would say, oh, well, maybe you should look at Cheryl for this project, you know. So after.

Yeah, but going back to that agent thing, I always remember Kim Kardashian had said she had a publicist. a long time ago. And, right, I don't even know if the show had come out or whatever. And she's like, I want to be like on the cover of magazines one day. And the publicist said, oh, honey, you're never going to be on a cover of a magazine. We'll try to get you, you know, on the red carpet asking people questions. And luckily she had the confidence to be like, well, then this isn't the person, you know, that she re-representing me. And it's like, your dreams have to be bigger than everyone else's. Yeah. And so many times we do Like, you know, even with the Sunday company, I didn't realize I would manifest stuff.

And you clearly, in your book, you're manifesting things throughout your life kind of without knowing what that was. And same with me because the secret hadn't come out. But I remember going to the, you remember the crowd? Yes, the secret. And everybody read the secret. It changed my life. Really? Really.

How did it change your life? Because I was at home with my children. Well, does everybody know what the secret is? The secret was a book that came out that was truly about management. manifestation and like, you know, say it, believe it, see it. Some people would, you know, make boards and cut out magazines of like, I want to go to Hawaii next year. Here's a check for $1,000. You see yourself doing it.

Jim Carrey has a classic story of where he wrote himself a $10 million check and he put a date on it. And literally like weeks before that date, he was offered a movie for $10 million. But he'd written it like 20 years prior. Like just things like that. And so I was with my kids. and I was still going out for little auditions and things like that. And I hadn't done stand-up. In many years, I lived in Woodland Hills.

I, you know, I was just telling my son this, and I realized this later. I never lived, like, in L.A. I never lived where the agents and the people were moving and shaky. And I kind of realized in the last year, oh, I wonder if I had gone to those schools and seeing the parents. Like, would I just be top of mind? Because sometimes you just see someone, you know, and you're like, that's who I need. Like, I remember I was at a dinner.

with Trace Hales Ross. We had our first show together, Lyricist's Lounge. And she took me to this cool restaurant on 3rd Street. And then she called me to tell me she got girlfriends. And she goes, you know Heather, how I got that? The writer-producer walked in and saw me having dinner with you. And was like, that's Joan. Wow. And so I'm like, but then

all these years later, I'm like, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have built this. Right. Which now this is a great situation and I love it. I'm not, I'm not jealous of anything that I see anymore. Like, I'm not, there was a time when I'd be like, oh like I wish I was on a succumb and then my life took away where I'm like no I'm very very satisfied but like those kind of things but getting back to the secret so I um my friend dropped it off like on

my doorstep this DVD and I watched it and I was like oh if you just that's it and then like literally I went back to doing stand-up and then like six months later I was working on Chelsea and then from there, because I also knew I was getting, I was like 37. I'm like, if I don't get like a regular TV show now. Yeah. If I wait like another five years, it's going to be too hard. Yeah. Like I got it and it was hard and I have a lot of guilt about not being home with my kids. Yeah. How, your daughter was born when you were like 39? Yeah. And was there ever, how did you maneuver when you were gone like on a set or whatnot? Yeah, it was hard. And I mean, I would, it was easier when she was little, because when I did RV, I just brought her with me.

I did a maybe called The Grand and brought her with me. But, you know, she had a great nanny who would bring her to my trailer for lunch, you know. And then, yeah, when I was on location, I would have, you know, have someone fly out with her. but it is hard when you when you look back and it was hard even at the time because you as a mother you kept thinking am I am I doing the right thing but also you know work brought me so much happiness and it made me a happy full person so I would have to was always balancing both of those things because I wanted her to see you know this is what your life can be, you can have success, and you can, you can make your dreams come true. And I wanted to model that for her. And at the same time, there were times when, you know, where I wasn't there for Mother's Day or, yeah. I missed a Mother's Day.

Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. I remember doing like five shows, like in Phoenix or something. And it was a great deal because they were like, it's Mother's Day. mother's day weekend like let's listen to a funny mother right yeah and i just remember i like went down and there was all these people having mother's day brunch at the hotel and i was just like you know but this is what i chose this what i wanted and my husband was supportive of it and i know the kids they're okay it's all like my sons today are like it's mother's day i cannot wait to

wait on you hand and foot all that exactly yeah but it is it is such a uh you know it is a challenge and you always kind of go like what is the right yeah thing and you know you can't have it all you can have it most you cannot have it all like in my opinion like you just it's something's going to give right because would you be happy just be being home all the time and you you know one might be like if i was it if i wasn't driven all i i always know i wanted to be an actor so that was in me you know but my you know when i talk to my daughter who's grown now, she really, she really wants to be a mother. She's, so she, she talks about it, like I talked about being an actor, you know, but when,

so it's interesting because there are definitely some people who that, they're not, if they're home all the time, they're not sitting there going, thinking, ah, I wonder if I could have made that other thing happen to. Yeah, and yeah, that's why, yeah, exactly. I, you know, talking about when you're dating the Charlie guy when I was reading that I'm like I dated some people that um I was like oh I wonder if I would have just gone down the you know married the Newport guy yeah I'm like there's no way that family him would have been like oh your wife's going down to the improv again like what a fucking loser like when is she going to make any money at this like You needed, like, so whoever I was going to choose, like, even with my husband, I had

boyfriends that were like, I mean, do you ever get any of these auditions? I was like, no, I don't. I never book anything. I just like going on them. And it's like, why do you keep doing it? Why do you keep doing it? That was Charlie. Yeah. He would, you know, he'd be like, I don't, why would you do a play for free? Yeah. That's how you do it, because I love acting. It's like, yeah, but it doesn't pay. I'm like, I'll, I'll keep doing it and love it in the excitement of it until I don't love it. anymore like and then if I feel like yeah and so yeah I was always doing it when I was doing real estate when I was doing whatever I was always always had it on if I wasn't doing stand-up I was still like auditioning and booking enough stuff to like get things and so I find that like you know

so interesting and then as being a mom and the other part that I thought was so brave in your book of like the idea of why you didn't want to have a second child can you kind of speak on that because I think it's like... It's kind of embarrassing to admit. No, I don't think it is. I think it's really interesting. Well, when I had my daughter, Kat, Catherine, I was, I fell in love with her from the moment I saw her face. And I was, I was just like, nobody else in the world matters.

And I just, I mean, to this day, you know, I see her. And I just, oh, my heart, it just makes me happy. She brings me so much joy. And I love her so much. So when she was, when she was little, you know, I thought about having another child. And I thought, I'm not going to like them. Because I love her so much. Yeah.

All I wanted to do was even when she was sleeping, I would take pictures of her because this is her with her eyes closed. This is her sleeping. You know, and I would watch. And then I would think if I had another baby, I'm going to get stuck with the baby. Well, also, I mean, she looks, I'm going to go to her. She looks so much like you. She's gorgeous. She's very beautiful.

I know I wish I looked like that. I mean, blue eyes, big. And I remember when I met her, because you invited me to like a New Year's Eve party at your house in Brentwood, like a very casual one. I was pregnant with my second son. So she was like, two. A little. And I remember seeing her.

And I was like, oh, my God. that Cheryl's like a little big smile yeah yeah yeah she's stunning yeah and so I thought oh I I I'm not falling for this because if I have a if I have a baby then Paul will get to hang out with cat and I'm going to be stuck with a baby I don't like as much as cat and then you know but I would think about it think I know other people do it you know other people have more than one child. I don't know how they do it. You know, it is, it is weird. And, and I remember when I gave birth to my second son, who I love very much, Brandon, but I remember having weird thoughts going, if I had to choose one, I know this one so much better, the one that's two and a half. And I

already liked them. Yeah. And I was just like, but then, and I remember even Chloe Kardashian revealed that, you know, she carried one and had to have a surrogate carry the boy. And she was very honest about this connection and she thought it was the surrogate thing and I said oh I wish she knows it's not it's not that yeah it's that you know the older one yeah and the love and the love and the relationship will come and it's and then you know and then you have that younger one that's like into cuddling a lot longer than the older one like it's all interesting but I think that you know what's great about you know our world and women today is that you know you really can make those choices for what's right for you and you shouldn't be sucked into yeah well you know your parents

want you to have two or whatever and with your schedule and everything and one is always easier and one girl I think is the easiest. Yeah she would she liked to color you know and then I would be around you know moms with little boys that there's a whole different jumping on the couches and

but then I like I said like I talked about my book then when I met Bobby and Bobby had six kids already and I just love them I love them, but I realize, oh, right, this is what happens. You don't have the same, you're never going to have the same relationship with each child. It's so different.

It's so different. And so many times, you know, people are like, oh, she was the favorite or whatever. It's like, I think that it's sometimes if it's your personality just aligns better with one. Sometimes you're too much like the child and you might butt heads a little bit. or, you know, or you're also, you know, so much like that you get along or whatever it is. But the love, I believe, is the same. Yeah. It's just sometimes, yeah, the relationships are a little different.

And also in different stages of life. Right. A one child could be the easiest teenager ever. And then maybe they struggled in their 20s or vice versa. Like there's no, oh, get past the toddler years. You know, like, power years for some kids might be the easiest. I don't know. I don't know what your kid's going to be like in fourth grade.

Like, you know. And so, yeah. So, yeah. So when I had stepkids They're all so cute No, they're so And you have I didn't realize you have grandchildren

I do How great is that? It's pretty cute People don't realize the joy of being marrying someone that's maybe a little older or later in life Whether you have kids or not Even if you're a woman who never had kids

You can be hot step grandma I am hot step grandma I'm share bear Because just like my mom I talk about my mom in the book because her name is Rosemary. And when she became a step-grandmother, she didn't want to be called Grandma.

So we called her Crackland Rosie. And, you know, for so many years, I thought, that's so ridiculous. Yeah. She just want to be called Grandma. And then, you know, I have these, my step-grandkids, grandkids, they're, it's like,

just call me share bear. Don't you dare call me grandmother. You know what, though, speaking of which, You did a movie The mom's, what was it called? Bad Mom's Christmas. And I was like, why is Cheryl playing the mother of Kristen Bell?

And I'm like, I hope they established that like she gave birth at 14. I think we did talk about that I had her when I was very young in my, you know, 18 or 19 or something. I always think that must be, that must have been kind of interesting. Like when you got the offer,

was that an offer too? Was there any part of that? You were like, oh, okay. I don't know that I identify as a grandmother with a daughter of this age, but like I'm not going to turn down a role. Like, is there anything in that's like, good news is you got a part. Bad news is you're playing someone that you're not. It was a discussion, you know, because it was like, I was, you know, talking with the directors that I'm like,

is this, are people going to believe it? But then if you guys are saying that you want, then you, then you, see me as being old enough. So I guess that's all that mattered. Yeah. And then yeah, they sort of rewrote that part in the script where I was really, really young when I had her. Okay. So then what I also love before we get to, here we are getting married to your second husband, Bobby. What I loved is I know you got divorced to from Kat's dad. I did not know that you had the nicest divorce. Yeah. The most pleasant co-parenting. I mean, how the hell does that happen and in Hollywood? Like, how, who, and you know, you don't talk that much about it, but I don't know how much

more you want to tell me. Like, when did you kind of feel like I don't think this is forever or did you ever have the discussion before you guys both agreed? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, You know, we were married for seven years, and I know that there, he was working a lot. I was working too, but just so really it was cat, you know, everything was about cat. And we just have a different approach in life. You know, he, Paul is intense. He's like, he's great at negotiations, you know. He does contracts and stuff.

And he's like, if both sides aren't mad at the end, it wasn't a good negotiation. You know, and people would come up to me and go, wow, your husband's like, bulldog. And I'd say, oh, I know. So he, he, and he said he's mellowed out, but still has that intensity, but in a different way. But I was always, you know, I remember what time he, we were talking about money, you know, and talking about what happens if we don't have enough money for this. And I said something stupid, like, we'll just plant another money tree. And he's like, I'm trying to have a conversation.

You know. And it's like, oh, I know, I'm listening. And you're right. There are no many trees. Okay. But so I, my approach is always a little bit lighter, you know, and look on the bright side. Let's focus on the positive. And it was not, it's not a good match that way because we would have a hard time communicating sometimes because it's like. So you guys have a good divorce. He actually went on like you guys would vacation together. with Bobby and you and your daughter. And so you fall in love with Bobby and you know, you met him years back at the Waterkeeper event.

And then, which was a big charity, which I did a video, Rachel, your friend, your best friend, my friend too, Rachel Harris. I did a little video of it. And then I went to the evening and then I saw you guys there and you're like, what are you doing here? And you're just like walking through the thing. And I was like, oh, okay.

Can I go on the, Peter was like, get us on the ski trip. Like, we were watching this whole thing and there was like a celebrity ski trip. I'm like, I just think they wanted me for like the PSA video. I don't know what. But it was all good. And but I was, when you got married, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe that Cheryl is marrying a Kennedy because there's so many interesting things about the, like the connection of the universe. Yeah. One was that you loved Carol Burnett more than anybody.

Mine was the Joan Rivers and I met John Rivers too. I would stay up to watch Joan Rivers when she would a guest star on Johnny. But you would go in the other room to watch Carol Brunette. And because of our friend Julie Welch, who's parents worked on Carol Burnett show. Yeah. Carol actually came to the show to watch you guys. She came to the Sunday Company. I don't know if I was on there.

I don't know if I totally remember that. That might have been when I wasn't. You would have remembered. I think because it was such a big deal. Yeah. And remember at the groundlings, like you could peek through, like a tiny crack and stuff. Sometimes you could see somebody in the audience. And I just remember, yeah, Carol coming and feeling like, wow, the universe is crazy. And then do you remember when JFK Jr. came to?

I do. I do. Now, in my memory, but I don't know if it's true, he was wearing a beret. Remember when he was wearing berets a lot? I talked to about, talk to this with, to Carol Radswell, you know, who was, you know, Carol Roswell. So, and she was like, Heather. She's like left.

She was like, I don't know if he's wearing a beret shirtless in the streets of New York. Like the way I imagine like the big of the post. I don't remember he was wearing a beret. But he might have been wearing like a beanie. Like a be. Yeah. I don't. It would be.

That would be hilarious if he was in a beret at the ground. But the connection of Brian Ruff who was his friend who was Kevin. Kevin Ruff. Sorry. Kevin Ruff who was his friend who was an actor. Yes. But also a lawyer. He's the one who invited him.

Yes. And so then to find out, I'm like, This is such a weird thing that Cheryl is now marrying into the Kennedy family. And I'm like, how great is this? Like, like, this is like, and I remember thinking like, wow, Cheryl's led of life. Like, you know, like from the, you know, from like. From Tallahassee, Florida to, yeah, to that. And this is great.

You know, he does this great. Who doesn't like water? Right. Everybody likes clean water. Yeah, everyone likes clean water. Who's mad about that? Nobody. No one's mad about clean water.

And then when he was running for president, at first, it seemed quite positive for people from both sides being like, this is who I'm going to go for it because I don't like this person. I don't like this person. And I was like, oh my God, like Cheryl might be the first lady. And I was like, I wish you would have kept in touch a little bit better because I'm like, I want to fucking invite to the White House. And so I want to know During the window of where it wasn't Hollywood hating you And your husband

Were there some friends that was like This is fucking cool, Cheryl This could be a lot of fun for us Can I spend the night Like who was like in it and excited Or was everyone just like What the hell's going on? I mean most people were like

What the hell's going on? There was hardly anybody who who was daydreaming about... No, you should have kept in touch with this thirsty bitch. But people did like to ask me in interviews, you know, because... And there was no good answer, right? Because if I said, oh, yeah, I would love to be first lady and dream about picking out the wallpaper or, you know, starting my own foundation or whatever, then that answer would

be like, whoa, somebody's delusional. You know what I mean? And if you said, and the truth was I really did not sit around thinking about that because the reality of the what would have to happen and the universal lining for that to happen was so. So you never really thought it was a possibility that he could win. Did you act like you were like, I mean, do you have a conversation like he's doing? this, but he's not, or were you like, hey, Bobby, you do you, boo, and I'll be there if it works out. But then in your own head or on the phone of your sister, you're like, this is not

going to ever freaking happen. Well, there were, there were, I did feel like it was possible. Okay. It was, a lot of it was not probable. And mostly because, because of that way, the way that election unfolded. It was, because when he first, when he first that he was going to run, he was running as a Democrat. And that was before the primaries. So, so that was, I think he announced in July and then the primaries were they start in, you know, the next year in January. So usually the primaries, the Democratic primaries, it starts to, after a few primaries, one, candidate will start winning, and it's an indicator that this candidate has the most support. And so, so for me, it was like, okay, let's get to the primaries and see what kind of support

you have. So every, every bit of along the way, it was different hurdles that you had to get over. So at that moment, I'm not thinking, well, I can't wait to get to the White House. I'm like, let's get to the primaries and see what happens. But then. But then right before the primaries, word was, and it did happen, that they were canceling the primaries. And states were just saying, okay, we're going to support Biden. Right. So then it was clear he had no path as a, he could not win a primary if there were no primaries. Right.

So then he switched to an independent. and to get on the ballot as an independent is so different than if you were a Republican or a Democrat and I'll probably bore your audience because they're like... No, not, you know, in the past, because, you know, lived on this earth long. Yeah, there was, there was some that, like, got a little further, but they really, then they would say,

don't vote for the independent because they're never going to win and you're wasting your vote. Right, right. So, yeah. So it was never, it was never that idea. didn't believe Bobby. I think Bobby would make an amazing president. He's a, he's very, very smart. He's a great leader. And he's a graceful person. But it was for him to, yeah,

for an independent to win, and it just hasn't happened before. Right. So, so I, so I, so I wasn't like packing my bags for the White House. I was like, let's, get through, uh, April. And then we'll see what May looks like, you know. And so then we jump to, you know, when that's it, you know, he has endorsed Trump and all of this. And you get dumped from Hollywood friends. You are, you know, and I was like, it's, it made me sad to like, like, to like, like, Like, see that and read it.

Not surprised. Yeah. And in, you've been very graceful in talking about, I'm just going to say it, Tignitaro, she did a podcast. She said how she could no longer talk to you or have any association with you because you're married to Bobby Kennedy. And you said, could you please? We want to share our thoughts of where we realize that we're not any, you know, not different people. We could, whatever it was. And no, I don't want to hear that.

I don't want to hear, I don't want to be, like, in my, I don't want to hear anything that might convince me of otherwise, of the decision I'm made, of the path I'm on, whatever. And that was sad because you guys had a friendship, you had a fun podcast where you talk about documentaries. And I just want to say to that, that person did not love you enough to want to be your friend forever. and in Hollywood you can be very close and when you're comedians and when you're doing podcasting and the world is listening to a friendship they get very sad when the friendship ends because they're like we saw the friendship yeah but it still is a working relationship and sometimes that just happens I you know I've had a friend where I wasn't happy that they were still aligned with somebody that hurt me very much but I was like but I love this friend so much yeah that there's

no way, I'm going to let this friend out of my life. Yeah. And maybe in a couple years, this won't even matter. Right, right. But I'm not going to do something so definitive that they're no longer in my life. Right of your life. Yeah. And I can't, that must have been like so weird and hard for you.

It was, uh, it was hard, you know, and it was, I was surprised. you know and I guess you know and then I stopped being surprised but I was surprised that because I know people

are passionate about politics I know it's very upsetting to some people no matter who's in office No but it has changed I mean it's crazy people are really really I mean I forgot about this

until I was doing my makeup this morning But my aunt, Claire Carey, she passed. She was raised a Democrat with my dad because the dad was in the unions. He was a firefighter. And then in the 50s, she was, like, working as an independent lady. She didn't get married until she's 34.

And she married DJ Carey. And DJ Carrey came from the Carries who are a huge Democratic family. She had switched to becoming a Republican during the 50s. And she married him. And his brother became the governor of New York. And the Carrie friends,

were probably if you say it to your husband he'll know several of my cousins that they all the kids hung out they went to boarding school together they knew each other and she never stopped being a Republican and the whole all the families knew it

all the families knew it and she'd laugh about it and it was fine I think she voted for her brother-in-law but other than that and it was like life it wasn't like they didn't do not do Christmas together

they did not it was never it was kind of It was sort of interesting and kind of funny. And, like, that was it. And it's like, of course, now people are probably screaming, okay, I get it. But I'm just saying it is interesting that, you know. I know.

There was a time when either you didn't talk about it or you could agree to disagree and still be friends and family. Yeah, agree to disagree. And there's something maybe with social media, something where it's just so ingrained in you that for a certain population of people, they have decided this is this like a religion on both sides

and there is nothing that will change their mind no matter what and they will give up people because they've gone such down such a long path that they can never go you know what I was wrong about that nobody will say that of these types

other people yeah that's the extreme other people yeah a lot most of us will be like oh yeah I did think that now I feel differently Right. Or that's a good point. Well, God, you need. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, yeah. And I think that's what's really hard because you were never at that extreme person. You were a Democrat at one point independent, you know. So, and he was when I'm sure when you got with him, it was perfect. Yeah. You're with the Democrat. He's from the cool family, the loved family.

Like he does he, who doesn't like water? Yep. Everybody loves that. Yeah. It's like, it's like. I said, what about the cyber truck? I go, nothing went from so cool to so uncool, so quickly. Except for the cyber truck and Bobby Kennedy.

Bobby was a 180. I'm like, oh, oh, okay. This is where we are now. Okay. Yeah. And when he said, well, we could fake a separation because he felt so bad because nobody liked you anymore. And you're like, let's not do that.

I'm like, but you know what? I understand it because I have some friends that I, I don't want people having feelings about my friends being friends with me. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't want to bring anything bad into someone else's life. And I know that's what he was, he was watching it all happen. You know, he's watching the podcast end and, and yeah, I have. I have a few friends that I really, they...

What do you mean the podcast end? Oh, with TIG. Oh, yes. And he knew, oh, this is happening because of me. Yeah. I am the... People hate me so much. People hate me so much, they are starting to hate you.

And I feel really bad about it. And I don't want that. I don't want that for you. You know, it was very sweet, but... I mean, if anything, when people were like, and in the book, like, you know, yelling at, saying, like, you need to... to tell your husband and how could you be with that man and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And it's like, probably at one point, there was an, like, well, thank God I have you, Bobby. Like, thank God we have each other because fuck these other people. They obviously weren't real, real in my life. Do you imagine if you dumped your husband to go hang out with these other people to, like, go on a trip to Spain? And then it's like, no, like, this is family and this is this. And it's like, you're right. This two shall pass. like who knows where things will be in a couple years and you said that about time like I wish

I could just skip two years ahead and I've had that in times in my life too or like parenting challenges like can I just see where you are at 25 so I can just like stop worrying like I don't know but you just have to go through it right you have to go through it you just have to go through it and you're right it was really it was um it was always uh I've always been a very a family oriented person It's always, it's always been my family first. No, I always remember that because you're so close to your sister like I am. Your parents were at that little New Year's Eve party at the Bruntwood House. Like, yeah.

So I, it was strange when people were, I mean, people still, some people, you know, feel like, oh, you should leave him. It's like, why? Because you don't like his politics? Like, that's, oh, that's not what our marriage is about. Yeah. And I mean, the, the, the, with the vaccine thing. You know, I don't know if you know, but I fainted on stage. I did see that.

And I thought, finally, I have a viral moment doing stand-up, and it absolutely did nothing for my career. Everybody just hated me because the left thought I was like a plant for the anti-vax and the right thought I was being disrespectful because I said, Jesus loves me the most right before I fainted. And they thought Jesus came down and flaked me. And I said, you know, I've been Catholic my whole life. like Jesus and I are good. Whatever. But it was one of those things. And, you know, but it, it, I was like, well, maybe this was meant to be because it did add to the discussion. Yeah. Didn't help my career at all, but my career is fine. But it didn't, but it was, even then I would do interviews and stuff. And they would say, well, what is it? And I go, look, and I, I don't know, but I did get the booster two weeks before to the day. Yeah. And, and so, and then, you know, and even. Chelsea had a situation right before going on stage where she had like a heart thing. And but, you know, she, we, whatever, she didn't talk about. I didn't talk about it. Because people are like, just don't talk about it.

Like, it's just going to be banned and you're going to be in trouble for even discussing it. And the truth is, like, I don't know. I just know. I've never fainted before. I've never fainted Astro. I'd had every test done. Thank God I'm fine. Yeah. And also I'd say, you know, you don't know how many people felt dizzy, but just sat down. Right. Or were sitting down when they felt dizzy. When I felt dizzy, I was on. stage. So there was no way for me to grab or go, you guys, hold on. Right. I know I have two shows and two meet and greets, but I'm seeing dots. Yeah. Like, no. So that's why a lot

of people, I think, you see all those of people feigning because they were on camera so they weren't addressing the fact they don't feel real. Well, because you're like... Well, imagine the athletes. That was also the problem. Yeah. I mean, the athletes were out on the field like going 90 miles an hour and then and then to feel that way. Right. But yeah, and it's so It's such a It's so interesting because I'm like

Why are people mad at you? Why are people mad at you? Yeah, what is your experience? Yeah, what if for some people It didn't work out for others it did Let's just make sure it's safe going forward Like what does it matter? Like I mean I had to

I had to show that I was vaccinated To perform at the clubs And I was fine with that I've always been I never had an issue with anything with my son during the Jenny McCarthy time because he was just a little younger

than her son I was watching the operas and everything and talking about the vaccines and the connection to autism and the next day my child didn't look at me in the eye and he was coming on

his 18-month shots and I was like oh my God, oh my God for six months I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do I don't know what I'm going to tell this doctor I don't wake up in the middle night I went to the doctor and I'm like

I don't know what I'm going to do about this appointment he's like what are you trying me I'm like I don't know about getting all his shots, he goes, Drake got all his shots at one, at one year. Oh my God. That guy was like, what? Like, he had like 15 at one time and luckily he was fine. Yeah. So what? Like that you spread it out or wait or whatever. And I don't know if people get mad because they feel like in some way maybe they made the wrong choice and therefore it's their

fault or they want to make sure that no matter what their choice was right. Like, again, like, who cares? Like, who cares? Like, we're not, nobody's judging anybody. or they shouldn't be. Yeah. So that's what is hard to understand, too, about why can't we listen to someone's experience? Yeah. Without calling them crazy or making it political. Yeah.

You fainting on stage has nothing to do with politics. No. Zero to do with politics. It was a moment in time for you. It was a health moment. And that's it. Right. So there's something about, you know, the back.

vaccine situation that really has people, people want to tell other people how they feel about it. They need to tell other people how they, not everybody, of course, but how they, one way or the other. Right. Or when people say, well, you know, I had an uncle who died of COVID. I'm like, yeah, that is really horrible. But why does that matter if your neighbor didn't get, it or doctored up a card so that they could work. I don't know. I didn't, you know, it didn't matter to me. I was like, I don't care if you get it or not.

I'm getting it because. Right, the vaccine. For the vaccine, because for me, I would go out and when it was before the vaccine and I'd wake up in the middle of the night and I'd be like, can I still smell my hand lotion? Because they always said you couldn't smell. So I was like, I want the, I just don't want to worry about getting it, you know? So I was happy to get it.

And I was happy to get the booster. and I was happy to do all the things and I never even I was like whatever but I also respected people that were like I'm not doing that okay fine you know and I had jokes about it

on the other side too I'm like yeah all these people that are like I'm not putting a needle in my and they're like going to get Botox like I'm like you know like who cares but again it's whatever your thing is so it's just I just think that so that when I saw the view

so you go on the view and I'm curious because you've been on the view over the years, I'm sure, promoting a million things. And what was the, did you know you were going into this situation? Or were they hugging you and were sweet? Did they act like it was going to be more about funny stories like we told earlier in this episode? Or did they, what did they think it was? Well, I was told that, you know, they were glad that it was coming on, which was good.

and that they that it wasn't that they weren't going to attack me yeah but then you know when I when I talk to a producer about what the you know the segment would look like

it was clear it was like oh okay they want to talk to you about backseeds they want to talk to you about Bobby and it's like oh okay all right you know so I so at that point I knew oh we're not just

I'm not going to have a good time I'm going to field questions about Bobby. And at that point, I felt like, that's okay. Like, bring it on. And it was good timing for me because Bobby's, you know, been secretary of HHS for, what, 10 months now and has accomplished a lot of really great things, you know, for the health of America.

So, so I was, I was glad to talk about it. And even some of the things that even, even me, even for me, when, like, when he was during his Senate hearings while he was getting grilled about being secretary and they kept saying, you're not a doctor. You are not a doctor. And I, the first time I heard that, I thought. Oh, no, he's not a doctor. This is, did they not know he's not a doctor? Or why is this so important? Is this usually like a surgeon has this, you know, this title?

And then now, you know, knowing what I know, most of them are not doctors. Our last secretary was not a doctor, was a politician. A lot of them have been politicians, governors, there was a economist. You know how many Democratic secretaries of HHS? Zero. So it's like, but I believed it too, even during that hearing where I was like, ooh, he's not a doctor. And then I've just been, like I said, I've been learning so much where it's like he's not, doesn't need to be a doctor.

That's not his role as secretary. So I was ready for those kind of questions and really attacks. Some of them weren't questions. They were just like, your husband's not qualified. It's like, was the economists qualified? So I knew going on that show that they were going to come at me. And, you know, and I really just wanted to try to connect with them and have a conversation about it. Do you imagine, though, too, like if there was a man who was on a show with a bunch of other men

and his wife was in some type of powerful position and they're like, tell your wife, she's a dumb bitch. I know. That doesn't know anything. And you need to divorce her ass. Otherwise, you're kicked out of the club. Like, that would never happen. And it's just so interesting that, you know, women like can judge. like, hey, even if you, you know, it doesn't, like, you're married to him and you, you know,

you do support and obviously believe what he's doing is great. But like, even if you didn't and just stayed silent during these years or whatever, what is it anyone's business? I know. You're going to tell your husband of whatever, how old he is. Like, um, no. You're not, who's a lawyer who's lived in this life and been around the Kennedy forever. Yeah, it's been working so hard. Right, and knows about stuff like this and has fallen, you know, it's just yeah, what are you supposed to do?

It's going to hurt people's feelings. They're going to be mad that you, if you get this job. When you guys got in this position in politics and now in the White House, did you have any friends or wayward family members that was like, hey, can you help a third cousin out with some shit? Did you have anybody that was like,

oh cousin Cheryl she can get us what we need. She can pull some string. Yeah. I don't have that. I don't have that, but I do have, you know, it's hard because because it's health. Yeah. I have a lot of people that want to tell me their health situations. So that's hard because it's like, I hear you. Yeah. And I can help research with you. But I can't, I can't do anything. I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I have a doctor I can call for you. I just, it's not, so that's hard, you know. It's not like comedy where it's like, oh, I wrote a script. Can you give it to Spielberg? It's like, no, but give me the script and I'll, if I run into him, I'll try to give it to him. Yeah. It's so, it's such a, you know, serious situation that it's that part. But no, nobody's calling like, oh, can you get me

out of a speeding ticket? No, nobody's. Now, I mean, it's hard to say like, you know, have you been blackballed or not been asked to do as many things as you would think or maybe you're not longer at the top of the list to play the mom and the whatever do you have some pretty clear understanding that might be the case? I think, you know,

it's a hard thing to say. It is. Because it's an unprovable thing. It is. You know, it's like when people were like, when I was like, I don't know if I was blackballed, but like I never, you know, got no longer these things weren't happening for me

and I just had to accept it. because there isn't necessarily a blackball. There's just one person saying, no. Right, right. No, I don't want that person here. No, that's not what I want. Or maybe having her on screen will trigger people at home because she's associated to something who's associated to somebody else

that half the world hates. Right, which is quite possible. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, it's quite possible. I mean, it's especially, I would imagine, if your spouse is a high profile person that's, yeah, some people really love and some people really don't. I mean, maybe you're right. It's like, I don't know. I don't know what people

are saying behind, you know, closed doors, but it's quite possible. But also, I have people calling me, offering me things. And are any of those people, people that might. have been at one time in your position or currently and they're like don't let this bother you like I've been there I wasn't getting nominated for the things I was blackballed at one time I was you know on that side and had to keep it a secret yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I say yes to that right I mean I was talking to somebody who very successful uh is you know producing more very successful things and said, yeah, I mean, I basically moved out of L.A. because people are so mad. So was this person still in the closet or no? The closet

of their politics? I don't think so, but I think they've moved to a place where that doesn't come first. Right. So now this person has moved to literally a different city where you know people are like oh what are you what are you making next what are you shooting next and it's not I don't even I don't think politics it comes into it at all I mean I've never I've never been a person to ask anybody about their politics I don't know what I have never asked somebody who they voted for the first time I realized and I had no idea. I was so naive or whatever is I was guest starring on something it might have been I can't remember what it was I didn't have that many guest stars so whatever and I just remember it was like

the third day of the week long thing and and Bush had won or something was going on we didn't I think that was the time we didn't know if it was going to bush or Gore like lasted weeks or whatever and that's when I was like oh everybody feels one way yeah and And interesting. Like, everybody feels one way and is all voicing that one way. And if anyone didn't feel that way, I, you know, oh, okay. You wouldn't say it. Yeah.

Don't, don't say it because it can be interpreted and it can, you know, stick with you forever. And now you have like this. I guess a set of a scarlet letter A, it's a scarlet letter R or something. I don't know. And then it's just, and then even you're like, no, that's not true. That's not the way I feel or whatever. and it's like they're just trying to like, you know, it's like a witch hunt, literally, like a sailor.

It's like, what does it matter? And like, what do you care? And then sometimes it's like, oh, that person has the luxury to say what they want, what they feel. Yeah. Doesn't that? That could be fun. Right.

That could be fun to have the luxury to say what I and just know that you're so above and it doesn't matter. But I kind of feel like with you, now, you know, obviously you love acting. It's something you've dreamt and wanted to do your whole life and it took a long time to get there. you know, first 10 years here was not, you know, a success story. So it's not like overnight, you know, showed up.

But is there a part of you at all that's just like, oh, well, fuck you? Like, then, you know what? I'll take a little break from it. And I'm going to enjoy this part of my life. And, like, it'll all be there when I come back. Yeah. And if or not, or I'll produce my own things or like, is there any of that? Like, because you've already accomplished so much.

You've been to all the awards shows. You've been in the movies. You've been in the things. So, like, yeah, there was a time when I, I wasn't ready for change. I didn't want things to change. Like you said, I worked really hard. I was very focused on my career. And I've worked with great people.

I've done, you know, really fun projects. And I was not ready for that to change. And so when Bobby started running, I was like, I don't know if I'm, this is going to change everything. I don't know how. I don't know if I'm ready. And I talk about that in the book too, right? There are moments in your life where you're like, I'm just not ready for what's about to happen.

Can I have a minute? And the universe says, no, you can't. And so it's a lot of, you know, self-reflection and just saying, okay, change is coming. So you either embrace it or, or you're going to be really unhappy. You're just going to always be unhappy. Yeah. Because you don't know what, you don't know how it's going to work out. But odds are it is not going to work out the way you think.

I mean, I don't know one person who thinks, that's going to work out exactly this way and then it unfolds that way. So I'm at a place now where, yeah, I'm completely fine with. however it works out you know what I mean it will I'm I'm producing a film with my ex-husband good um and we're having a lot of fun doing it and whatever it's going to unfold is going to unfold and you're right I have I've done a lot of things that I dreamed of doing so I so that's great so I don't feel like oh my God I never had the chance to do that one thing.

So, you know, if people feel like, and I don't think they do, I'm sure there are individuals that feel like, you know, I hope she never works again in her life. Yeah. It's like, I will be okay. Right. I'm okay. Like, I have a really fun life. I always have, even when I didn't have an acting job, even when I was, you know, 25. struggling. I mean, we have a lot of that in common is that I've enjoyed the journey the whole way.

Yeah. And, you know, and when I've been sad, I'm grateful that I knew the reason why. Yeah. I didn't suffer from any kind of like, you know, mental depression or whatever. Yeah. And it was just very get up and go and be positive and like laugh about it. And I think that's like what we connected. And you're very spiritual and you can see in the, in the book. And like I said, a lot of the, what do you call it? prayer manifestation universe the way things lined up is like very intriguing as we get to this age of like oh my god you know isn't that interesting because that happens yes that happens so that thing can happen right exactly and like the lack of then where you're like oh my god my you know my regrets are minimal and my regrets are just like oh I should have gone to that wedding or whatever and but

they're not you know they're not huge they're not the big the regrets of yesteryear you're like are no longer regret because you're like oh a that had exactly what you were saying. You know, and with, yeah, with everything of what you're doing now. And, like, I do want to say, like, now I was always intrigued by the Kennedys. I watched every lifetime movie about Jackie O. I was obsessed with JFK Jr. Like, you know, like, just so intrigued by it all.

And one of my questions was, you know, was that you? Because some people say, oh, Megan Markle. said, Harry, who is he kind? You know, and they're like, you knew who Harry was. You had Diana's book by your bed in college. What was your relationship of knowing the history of the Kennedy family? As far as just pop culture knowledge or... No, I really didn't know anything other than what I learned in school.

Right. So, you know, I knew John Kennedy, the president. I barely knew Robert Kennedy was the attorney general also. never showed up on my radar. I was never a person that was where we'd sit around

and talk about Jackie. Yeah. I just don't know. I didn't know anything about them. And I know it's, you know, it's probably worked to my advantage because I didn't have expectations. That's why mom's,

I remember my mom said when she married my dad. She was like, that was like the first time she voted, they voted different. voted for Kennedy and he voted for Nixon and she was like, I don't know if this marriage is going to work. Clearly it did. It's not going to work. You know, we're together till they die. You could do that. Right. With your spouse. And it wouldn't be this like thing. Right. I was like, okay, well, now this, okay, my guy didn't win. Like, whatever. Yeah. And it just doesn't feel like that

for a lot of people. But yeah. So you weren't all, you weren't the person that was reading all the stuff. Not at all. Yeah. Not at all. all. I didn't know. I really didn't know. It just seemed like a far away, you know, people far away doing something on a beach or something. It's like, that's not my life. And how is your daughter's relationship with her stepfather? It's really good. I mean, there definitely have been times that were hard because I don't know that many kids want. their parent to run for president, you know? It's, because it's so out of your control. Yeah. It's, that's, I mean, I felt like that as a wife where it's like, right.

It's so out of my control. This isn't my life. I'm not saying I want to run for president, but so. Are people cruel to her? You know, I think once in a while, somebody online will say something. Everyone can be brave online. Yes. But in real life, I mean, she's such a lovely, smart, funny girl that,

I don't think, I've never seen anybody be mean to her. I mean to me either. They're mean to Bobby. Yeah, you said you've been in public where like, and you said the demographic of people that come and tell them to fuck you are middle-aged. White women. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm going to get one on, I'm going to get one on camera one of these days. I got to, and I can't. So you'll just be like eating, like enjoying a Chinese chicken salad. Yes. He's having his, you know, lean meat or whatever he eats. And then I heard the sauerkraut thing. That was very funny.

I have heard that sauerkraut and things like that is really like a good, good diuretic for everybody. But anyway, so he's into eating that. So he brings that with him sometimes. And you guys are just having a meal and someone just comes up. And what does he do? Just smile? What does he say? Just sits there and listens.

And it's, it. It does not have the effect that the person is hoping it will. Yeah. Because they end up looking crazy. And, I mean, it's kind of comical. Yeah. Because when they walk away, you're like, holy shit. Did everybody see that?

But it's, you know, sometimes, yeah, I think I say in the book that we were at some restaurant and some women said something on her way out. But nobody even looked up from dinner. They're just like, well, there goes the crazy lady. So it's weird. Yeah. It's strange. And I don't think people realize you've been married since 2014.

Yeah, we've been married for a long time. For 11 years. And so when the digital scandal of this girl saying that she was interviewing him, your husband, and there was flirtation going on. And it was very weird how it came about. I was suspect to how it came out because it was like her husband who she's divorcing said went to her boss

who said I saw this weird thing and you know and it's the height of well the election was happening in two months yeah Bobby's appearing dangerous to possibly be successful in this situation and

but what was that like I mean when you had to wake up to that latest thing I was a I mean by that point you know he'd been running for a year and a half he was he had um endorsed a Donald Trump and people were going crazy people were going crazy already so there were already so many stories like so many headlines that were just You learn to not even pay attention to them. But that one, I was, I was in Italy with my girls and then this story breaks. And I'm like, I, I can't, I can't hear one more. This is too much.

It just felt like too much. I was just like, it's such a circus. Yeah. that running for president is such a circus. And, you know, election day was November 5th. And you were in Europe with your daughter and your stepdaughter, yeah. I love that you say my girls and my children and I'm a stepmother too. And that's, I refer to my daughter as my daughter.

She calls me mom. Like, you know, it's all lovely. And I love that they're close to. But yeah, I see. So you were just like. I was just like a kid. You all sound crazy. that's how it felt like um and i you know i stayed with my daughters and we've had a

a good time and um then when i got back i was just when i got back it was just like a stop down with bobby just like tell me everything what is going on and then you know we got to the truth of what was going on and then you know we got to the truth of what was going on and then and then then that felt like, oh, okay, okay. And what do you think is the truth? That it was like a setup thing? You know, I'm not the, I couldn't know this person. I don't know this person.

That's a question for somebody else. Okay. You know? Yeah, I got it. But everything about it was, it's a lot of, like you were saying, Even to try to get to the bottom of it, it just turns into a strange rabbit hole of this thing happened, this person said this thing. And then it just gets exhausting. Right.

And I'm just like, I can't. I'm not interested. Now, has there been any, like, holiday party of a celebrity person you've worked with that you've been in mind to every year? And then, like, last year you just, like, didn't hear. And then you opened up Instagram and it was still going on. And you're like, oh, I've gone for the last nine years. I wonder what happened to my invite. Checking my mailbox.

Like, it's got to be in here. No, I don't have that. But, I mean, but listen, yeah, I do have friends that. I have, you know, two friends from the Sunday company that I've been friends with, but this long and they're not talking to me. And it's like, okay. Okay, you'll tell me after. I'll tell you after. Well, I have to tell you one last funny thing before we close. So when I was at Chelsea, you know, like I said, we're busy.

I don't live in your neighborhood. I don't see you, but like I love for you and everything. And I get this email to go to your birthday party. And I literally just told my friend Kate Casey. I go, I'm interviewing Cheryl. and she's a great podcaster too. And I go, I don't know. I'm going to ask her because until I read this part in your book,

I, okay, so this is what happened. I get an invitation to go to Cheryl's birthday party. And it seemed like it was like a big year or something. And it was a pool party barbecue, bring your favorite exotic animal. So I thought it was Cheryl just being funny, but I thought it's going to be a beautiful pool party in this house in Brentwood. And of course I want to go because I'm not hanging out with this side of Hollywood as much. And I want to, like, reconnect with the groundling type people.

And, oh, my God, I'll, you know, see all the important people that might say, oh, have they'd be good for that. Okay, you know, because it's not on the 818. She's over here looking to you. So anyway, I was like, and then, like, shortly after this email comes, and it's like, my daughter hacked my email, this party's not happening, whatever. And I was like, oh. And I remember thinking, how old is that daughter?

Like, well, how could she do this, you know? And so the time went on, and I have to tell you, I convinced myself that there was somebody else that my email is Heather DeBias at Haimel.com. I've had it since before. I was married. I have other emails. But that's where it came. And I go, I wonder if she had a frame name, Heather Debbins or whatever. And somehow she misinvite, she invited me, and she didn't really mean to invite me.

I really did think that. Until I read in the book last night. That is so crazy. And I'm sitting at like 11 at night and I'm like, oh my God, I really was invited. Well, I wasn't, I was invited about your daughter. You never had the party. But I'm like, it wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a mistake.

That's so funny. But like how you just get in your head. But I still was like, I still love Cheryl. I'm still going to ask her to come on Juicy Scoop. I still support her. I still think, yeah, it didn't make me go, oh, fuck you, whatever. That is so crazy. And then I still also wondered because.

Because in, people were saying, oh, Cheryl and TIG's show is so funny. And at one time, they tried to call you or something. You had a phone number. And I was like, oh. And then I listened to it. And Tigg was like, Heather's not relevant. Something like that. She's like, nobody, like, the average person wouldn't know who Heather McDonald is or something like that.

And I remember I just heard it. And I was like, you know, I know I'm not on a TV show. I know I'm not, you know. at the level of that part. But I was like, I do fucking pretty well for myself. And I was like, okay. So then when someone was like, no, you really need to call into their show. I was like, no, I think they might be like, like mocking my, my podcast.

Like being like, you know, like, I don't know. And I know it. And I didn't really let it get too much to me, which is why I was like, when I thought you had a book and I want to come on. No, because we were talked, there was some documentary that I knew. that you had a connection to her? Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God, we've got to call Heather. But I don't remember what happened.

I think I tried to call you, no. No, you did. People said it was funny, and I just, whatever, didn't see that. Oh, but like TIG, like, probably just, like, you know, I probably, if I have your number, it's probably just three one or whatever. I, like, didn't have it in my thing because it'd been so long. I was in no way mocking you. I was just like Heather would know.

No, and when I heard it, it wasn't you. it was kind of, and I was like, you know, like, whatever. Like, I know, like, I know, like, there's times where I'm like, I think sometimes people see me as like, oh, that's, that crazy bitch that talks about housewife, whatever, you know, and I'm like, but I know, like, my life is great. And I know, like, what I've done. But I was just sort of like, okay, you know, like, whatever. But I, but still, I still always knew you.

I know. I always knew you and I knew how sweet you were and I knew what you I wouldn't do that for your nephew I wouldn't do that you know people don't know like the charitable stuff that you always did like your nephew had cerebral palsy you're so involved in that and I remember seeing it and all of that I remember when Ken Polk died and like the stuff that you know we put together and that you were a big part of his memorial and you've just always been that nice person, you know, that said, I was like, so I was just kind of like, oh, I think that was just whatever it was. And I'm so glad I didn't let it get to me to the point where I was like, not, you know, but I was a little confused by it, but I wasn't like, well, hey, you know, we hadn't been in touch on the way that we were 20 years ago. Yeah. But I was still really happy for your journey. But, okay, we're having a truth, truth circle. First of all, I would never do that to you. I would never, I think you are amazing. And I'm really proud of you

from what you've created, who you are. I mean, you've created something really special. And I think it's unbelievable. And when I, because I did send you that, what I saw the picture of the, of the women smelling people armpits. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, this makes me think of Heather. And I sent it to you, but you never responded. I never saw it. Oh, because I was like, I never saw it until I wrote you and said, oh my God, you have a book coming out. You have to come on my show. Well, it's funny. And come before it comes out. Well, Heather, because I was like, when I sent that to you, it wasn't that long ago. No, I looked. And I, when I was going through the stuff, I was like, oh, fuck, I missed this. Heather's turned. Oh, no. That's what I thought. I was like, oh, she's not speaking

to me. Okay. That's what I thought. Oh, look at us. But just to be... Because also in this business, you always wonder like, what was it? You know, like I always say when people go, I don't know if I flipped my hair

in someone's face in an elevator in 1998 and they've hated me ever since, and they could. And then sometimes it's something bigger. And sometimes it's just a miscommunication. Right. A miss DM, a whatever. Right. Right. Right. A misunderstanding.

Someone's relaying to me what they like heard on the show, you know. What they thought they heard. Yeah. And that's what I always hate. Now when people say they talked about you,

sometimes I don't bother to listen. But I go and listen before and then I go, oh God, they weren't dissing me. Yeah. Like, who cares? Everyone has a podcast. We all talk.

I heard what you said about me on your podcast is like the name of my next book. Like everyone talks about each other now. And that's how. Yeah. Where people, yeah. Like, we used to talk behind people's backs.

Now we just put a bike and fucking let it. rip but no I would never and I felt I felt really badly like watching that view thing and I felt that you came off great and I just I you know and I admire like to the point where you're like you know what enough because so many of us in this business and during this time have like coward and has been like oh I guess you know I can't well yeah you can't see I don't want to say anything because this business is hard enough. Yeah.

You can't give people a reason to say no to you. You learn that early as an actor. Yeah. Don't be late. Know your lines. Take direction. Right. Have a good attitude.

Don't give people a reason to not cast you, to not hire you. So, you know, there is that going on. And like you said, you can feel it. Like if somebody says, I remember after Donald Trump won, you know, the first time, and I was in a green room with a bunch of actors. They were all saying, you know, I can't believe it. And one guy said, oh, yeah, I voted for Trump. And it was like, whiplash.

Everybody looked and like, and everybody stopped talking to this person. And I said, I said, that's, I said, why did you vote? You know, and we, and I had a conversation with him because I thought it was interesting and interesting that he was perfectly at ease with saying that when it, he just created a huge, reaction from everybody. I thought the whole situation was, you know, eye opening. I had no idea. I honestly had no idea. There was that. Like I said, I didn't, I've lived in L.A. my whole life and I didn't really understand it until I started to work. And then I remember someone saying, don't, my friend had a husband who was a director and he was a Mormon. And I went to her house and she had a big bottle

champagne shows here do you want this and she goes every time my husband gets a job directing his agent since him a big ball of champagne and i go why doesn't he know that he's Mormon and he goes she's like no and don't ever tell anybody and don't you know and i'm like what like this is so weird like that you're like pretending like to be this other person and so i'm like okay so um yeah and i and i thought it was like a joke like i thought it was people being dramatic when they talked about like, oh, there's a secret group and da-da-da, and keep your mouth shut. And I was like, oh, come on, who cares, you know? And then it proved to be true.

And then it's like, you know, no matter what you did or said, they just are trying to, you know. And so then I was just like, you know what? And so then with this show, like there was a day in like 2016 where I'm like, I'm just never going to talk. and it was hard to come up with topics sometimes that were not political. There was some funny-ass shit that happened that I would have loved to have talked about making fun of all the different sides.

And I just was like, I'm not going to do this because I just want this to be the escape. Yeah. And so then even with having you on, I go, I know this is going to be a controversial thing. And I'm like, finally, fuck off. I don't care.

Yeah. You're my friend. The book is great. Very interesting. Interesting life. I hope you enjoy living in both places. I hope another book comes out after. I think this could be a great movie, like, about your life.

I think it could be a really interesting movie. And, you know, and whatever happens a couple years from now, like, I just hope you're still, you'll always have each other. Yeah, we'll always have each other. And you still have Sunday. We'll always have the sky bar. We'll always have the sky bar. you'll always have your family and like the rest of it

yeah who cares yeah it's gonna come and go and things like happens there's such big thing you know oh my god we'll never get over this and then like

sometimes you just keep your mouth shut a week later they've moved on something else you know it's true yeah it's true I had a group of haters and then I stopped addressing them and then I realized

they went over to this other girl I know and I saw her be like and I'm like oh god they're the same ones I literally I'm like they're the same ones I had and they went over to you just like just but it is hard and when you see it it's it's hard to always be like that and it takes a lot yeah sometimes it gets to you go and enjoy yourself and and anyway the book is very good and I can't wait to finish it and I mean you talk about

some really profound things and oh the last thing I was going to say is I also think it was interesting you're raised Catholic I remember that about us I too and of course the Kennedys are Catholic And I also thought Ethel must have liked that. Yeah, I guess. We hardly talked about religion, though. But even if you're not practicing in the sense that you're going to Mass every day,

it's like there's something there's an understanding. There's like an understanding of that kind of Catholic guilt that makes you sometimes go. Fall in line. Yeah, or feel guilty. Feel guilty. Yeah. We have to take Maria to the sky.

bar. I still feel very guilty. That is so... I'm going to tell her that you said that. However, listen. I feel really... I know. And when I saw her years ago and she was telling me like all the stuff she was doing and she was like working reality TV and I was like, oh good, she's not mad about the sky bar. No. That's so funny. You know what that reminds me of?

One time... This is a long time ago. I went on Jimmy Kimmel. Long, long time ago. And I made a joke, you know, about his chipe. And, because I didn't think he wore a toupee. I was just, you know, making a joke, like his hair looked funny or something. And then I, I then when I got home, I thought, oh, my God, what if he does wear a toupee? And I just said that on live television. And I worried about it until the next time I went on his show.

And then during commercial break, I leaned over and said, I'm so sorry that I said that about your toupee. Because I don't wear a toupee. I said, oh, that's what I thought. But then I said that joke. And he's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. He said, have you been carrying this around for years? And I said, I have.

I felt so badly. I didn't want to hurt your feelings. He's like, Cheryl, let it go. I don't have a toupee. Nobody cares. No, but you're so similar like that. Like, that there's a weird thing that, like, haunt me. That'll just kind of haunt me.

Like, that was not nice. Oh. I'm going to forgive you right now. If I would have said the models had a plus one. Then we might have been able to do it. Then both the remains could have come and they could have squeezed on the back of my tortoisella. Oh, my God. Everybody, the book is unscripted.

You're going to go and pre-order right now so that you're going to get it on Tuesday, November 11th. They always come out on Tuesday. It'll make the bestseller list the following Tuesday you'll know. We'll see. We'll see. It doesn't matter. I think it will. And because it just, it's funny, it's intriguing.

It's spiritual. It's sad. There's some very sad parts. And, yeah, I loved it. And thank you for coming and staying for so long. Thank you, Heather. And everybody follows Cheryl, right? What's your Instagram?

I think it's like underscore Cheryl Heinz. Yeah, very easy. You guys unscripted. And of course, go to Heather McDolland. dot net. I have just a few tickets left for my Vegas show. So you better go November 14th. Bye. Love you. Thank you.