Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Diablo Cody on Oscar Win, Stripping and Hollywood Truths

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Diablo Cody won her Oscar for writing the original screenplay “Juno”. Diablo is hilarious, loves pop culture and we have known each other for 15 years. We get into how her career started and how being a stripper played a major role. Her latest film “Lisa Frankenstein” is out February 9th in theaters. She shares about her inspiration for her storylines and characters. She opens up about her method for writing a screenplay has evolved over the years. She sheds light on the dark Hollywood secrets everyone knew about. We also get into future of The Bachelor franchise and when Taylor and Travis will get engaged. Enjoy! Go to https://www.PeacockTV.com/the-traitors to watch Traitors Season 2, out now, only on Peacock! New episodes drop every Thursday at 9pm EST Go to https://StoryWorth.com/juicy to save $10 on your first purchase! Shop Juicy Scoop Merch https://juicyscoopshop.com  Get EXTRA Juicy on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Follow Me on Social Media Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Here the McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr. Sakeman's serial data, and serial sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo. Hannah McDonald. Juicy Scoop.

Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, I'm so excited of an old friend of mine, meaning that we met many, many years ago. Oscar winner, writer, TV personality in your own right. Well, mother of three boys, boy mom, most important title of all, Diablo Cody, probably best known for your Oscar win, which is Juno, most amazing movie,

but you've done so many movie sense and you have a new movie out, Lisa's Frankenstein, which is, I saw- It's just Lisa Frankenstein. Oh, sorry, Lisa Frankenstein. Sorry, Lisa Frankenstein, which is, I saw- It's just Lisa Frankenstein. Oh, sorry, Lisa Frankenstein. No possessive. Sorry, Lisa Frankenstein. And it is a dark comedy.

It's from your funny twisted off the beat, mine. It's 80s, which I love. It's from the 80s. And yeah, congrats on everything. But how many movies have you done now? I actually don't know. I'd have to count. I want to say it's like seven or something.

Amazing. Yeah. And you wrote the play, the musical, Jagged Little Pill, which uses all of Atlantis' Morissette's music. I did do that. How did that come about? That is honestly one of, first of all,

thank you for that lovely introduction, Heather. It's wonderful to see you. That came about in, you know, these things typically start in a very unsexy way with a call from an agent. And, but normally like people had maybe, you know, suggested that I get into the theater space before that, but I'd always been like, yeah, I'm not interested. I'm not interested.

Like I'm not a theater kid. I don't want to go to New York. But when they said, Alana's more set than, you know, come on. Like I'm obsessed New York. But when they said Elanus Morissette, then, you know, come on, like I'm obsessed with her. I was obsessed with that album. And I just said, okay, I have to at least meet with her. And maybe I just wanted an excuse to meet Elanus. And I was kind of thinking, I still don't know if I'm going to do this. And then I met with her. And then the next thing I know, I'm on this like, it was like a six or seven year journey to get that show to the, I mean, it took a long, it's a spoiler alert, it's hard work.

So I have not seen it. So how did you come up with what the play would be about? So the only like creative direction that I was given was that that Alanis didn't want to do like a biography. Like she didn't want it to be about her life. Got it. Cause everybody who hears about the show and hasn't seen it, they always say like,

who played Uncle Joey? Yeah. Always. And I'm like, there is no Dave Coulier in the show. But, No, that's always a yeah. Yeah. Or like who played Elana?

So it's like she's not in it. So I just thought like I listened to the album a few times, not a few times, a million times. And I thought like, I think that this is about a dysfunctional family. And few times, a million times. And I thought like, I think that this is about a dysfunctional family. And it's about like religious trauma. And it's about like, sweeping things under the rug versus addressing them and allowing yourself to heal

and like all these kind of big themes and we did it. Amazing. And now it's touring? Yeah, we just finished the North American tour and then the plan is eventually it'd be wonderful to have it in the West End. Do you think it'll be a movie the way they're doing like so many musicals are now becoming a movie? It's usually the other way around. This gets brought up a lot and I gotta be honest with you like being real and not being like promo person. I'm scared to do it because some musicals I do not think work as movies.

Okay. Some do. Uh, Grease. Grease, for instance. I'm very excited for the Wicked movie. Yeah. I haven't seen the Mean Girls musical. I haven't yet.

But I want to. I will, yeah. And so, yeah, it comes up, but I always think to myself, like, what if we, like, accidentally took this property that's special to us and like butchered it? Yeah. I'm kind of a pessimist.

You are? Big time. You don't work the secret? Oh my God. No, I've, should I start vision boarding? You don't, you know what? I've never done a board. I've never, I'm not crafty.

So I've never gone to Michaels. I've never gone to, my friend used to go to parties every January with a bunch of women and they'd get the magazines and they would do it. And, but I've had things work out in other ways. Like when we first got married in the Catholic church, we had to do like, they're like, now draw a photo, draw something of like, what your life will look like in 10 years.

So I wasn't overly, I wasn't in the sky, okay? So I did a normal ranch home that was bigger than what we had because at the time we had a condo. So I did like a little, you know, half acre lot with a certainly circular drive and this many bedrooms. And I was like, okay, I'll have a stepdaughter. I'll be pregnant with one and have another one that I already gave birth to within 10 years.

Or somewhere around here. Did you manifest your exact vision? So then I was moving out of my house and I found the notebook. And that was the exact house that we were moving into. And I was pregnant with Brandon. I already had Drake. And it was four bedrooms.

We added onto it after, but it was four bedrooms. It was a, it was a semi-circular drive. And so I'm like, I, so there was lots of things that I would do in my life that I didn't know I was actually doing the manifesting. And then someone else said something recently that they're like, you know, whether you work the secret manifest, believe in the universe or God, or you are a Christian who prays, if you're praying for something, that is manifesting. So, whatever works for you, but it's putting out positive thoughts, and it's the opposite of like jingling yourself. I do pray a lot.

So, maybe that's part of it. But generally, the pessimism stems more from, you know this probably, when you're in the business long enough, you see how many things don't come to fruition. Right, especially for me. Maybe everything you've done has. No, no, not at all. I mean, I had, you know, I had pilots and auditions and everything that didn't work out.

And I'm just like, most of the time it doesn't work out. Right, you probably have so, especially you, being a writer, producer, so many projects. Yes. Graveyard of failed projects. So for me, I'm like, the fact that we're even, like this movie is gonna come out in a couple weeks and at this point I actually believe it's gonna happen. Like I'm like, okay, but if you had asked me

a couple months ago, I would have been like, I don't know. Like. Well, obviously, and also with the writer strike and COVID and movie theaters and all that stuff, that really probably changed the normal plan of things. Completely, yeah. Yeah, it's just like, I can't count. Or even just when Jagged Little Pill opened on Broadway,

we, you know, it was a culmination of years of work and we had to shut down like two months later because of COVID. I think that was the last time I saw you. You were, we were in like a Newport airport. Yeah, I saw you at the airport. A New York airport, yeah, you were coming back from there or whatever we were going. A New York airport. Yeah. Yeah, you were coming back from there or whatever.

We were going. We were sucked. And because that, now how I always did not understand how you could have three kids and do your writing. And because when I, okay, so let's do a little bit background. So we met on Chelsea lately. You were, were you a guest first? Initially, I was a guest, yeah.

Okay, your guest. Back when Chelsea wasn't booking like A-Listers and she had to have Diablo Cody on her show. Yes. And so what I also love is that then you like are such a pop culture, like you love all that stuff and you're fun to talk about it. So then you sort of became a regular on the show. You were sometimes on the round table and everything. And then your husband at the time, he was working on the show as an editor.

And so then we were like all would all hang out and we went to Vegas together. We went to Cabo. Yes, Cabo is where we hung out at first. It's just crazy that, I mean, that was like, Chelsea Lately was like our social life for years and it was fun. It really was. That is was fun. It really was.

That is so true. It really was. And it was, it really was fun. And, um, wait, I'm just remembering something. You came to my house and I had some weird psychic. I remember it well. That psychic told me I was going to have a daughter and I never did. So that's, that did stick with me.

That psychic is not good. Oh, really? Did you also get a disappointing reading? Yeah, whatever. Yeah, nothing came true. And then also, she's read me like five times at different people's parties in LA. But she doesn't really remember it.

But I'm like, oh. And they're like, and we have a psychic. I'm like, ah, we can pass. Here's what I'll say, though, about that party, Heather.'re like, and we have a psychic. I'm like, oh, we could pass. Like, here's what I'll say though about that party, Heather. Yeah. The psychic greeting may not have come true. However, you did gift me the best hairdryer that I have ever used in my life that I still use to this day.

I don't even know if I, you know what? I'm so bummed because I remember that whatever the PR person that I was working with gave me an amazing, amazing hair dryer. It's a rough and speed freak. Do you remember what it's called? It's called a speed freak. And it's the fastest blow dryer I've ever used. And it's still in my regular daily rotation.

And I think of you when I use it. So thank you. Oh my God, I love it. Now you had a really interesting start to your writing career. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? You were a stripper. I was.

I was also like many other things. I was like the queen of odd jobs. I was like stripping. I was doing phone sex. I was in insurance claims. But what process? So you said you went to Catholic high school and grammar school? Yeah. I went to Catholic school for 12 years. Which is amazing. So then... And so when you finished that, did you not go to traditional college after that? I did. I went to traditional college after that? I did.

I went to University of Iowa. I graduated. And then I graduated at the perfect time because it was 2000. And there were so many jobs. And I moved to Chicago. I got an apartment. I had a nice job as a secretary at an ad agency. And I was just doing my little 20-something thing, right?

And then I just had this feeling like I'm like I had, I felt like this is tough to articulate, but it seemed like I had just done too linear and too perfect of a path. All right, let's get into Traitors Episode 6. It has gotten so juicy. I'm really enjoying Kate Chastain. She's like, has all these little funny remarks and it's gotten really, really good. So the three traders who are Dan, Phaedra, and Parvati, they decide they are going to murder, give their letter of murder to Berge,

because they believe that Peter and Trashel have the shield because Peter told them that. So they go, let's kill Berge. So now they go to breakfast and every each person comes one by one. Oh my God, oh my God. And then they're like, I guess it was Berge. I guess Berge, you know, got killed and Phaedra who killed him was like, Oh, not my burger, delicious. And then Berge walks in and everyone's like, what? And of course the traders have to act like all,

like not overly surprised, but kind of like, yay. And she's like, oh thank Jesus, Bergolicious is still here. And they're like, how are you still here? And he's like, I have the shield. So then Peter the pilot's like, yeah, I'm telling you guys, it's Dan, CT and Parvati that I had the shield and so did Trishelle. So don't you find it interesting that they picked Berge?

They're clearly the traders. And Dan's like, I don't know why you're saying that. Yeah, you told me, but like, I'm not a trader. So then they have to go do their challenge, which is fun to watch. And they have to find, they have to throw this cannon and see who gets the closest and Shari gets the immunity. She gets the shield. So now they go back to the round table.

The only person that's safe is she, she barks Shari from Atlanta. And Peter again says his thing. I think it's you, Dan. Um, maybe Parvati, but I really think it's you, Dan, but he was also really think it was Parvati. And meanwhile, you know, Phaedra's just like, and then Dan goes, well, I've been watching this game and I've been quiet because I really think it's Phaedra. I think Phaedra's a traitor. I think, you know, when she said, oh, burgalicious acting like she's sad, when she was comforting Larsa acting like she

cared. And then Kate, Kate, uh, Chastain is like, well, that's her friend and Larsa's boyfriend had just gotten murdered. So like, was that that weird? Fedra is like steaming. She's so pissed, but she can't reveal like, dude, we're both traders. So then she just annihilates him, bringing up all the points that, which makes him look suspicious and her not. And everybody votes and almost everybody, um, votes for Dan. So, and the fact that he had one he had one big brother and all this stuff. So he gets up and then he says, I was the traitor.

So then when it ends, we see that it's now Parvati and Phaedra. And then Alan Cummings comes out and goes, you can do one of two things. You can kill somebody or you can invite somebody to come join your trader. So you have the three. So they decide to invite Peter the pilot to come join them. And he can either say yes or no,

that's where the episode ends. And he's like, wow, this is really smart because if I say no, they'll probably just kill me anyway. But they wanna take him because now he's like, wow, this is really smart because if I say no, they'll probably just kill me anyway. But they want to take him because now he's got, he's like the leader of all the faithfuls and they want to break up that, that, that little group. So it's gotten so, so juicy, so good. You can watch every new episodes every Thursday only on Peacock. They drop at nine Eastern and there's six episodes out now.

So catch up and get into it. So I was talking to one of my old sorority sisters and we were laughing so hard because she was telling me a story that her mother told her about she and her sister that reminded her so much of her own daughters and she never heard the story before. And that's what I said, have you heard about Storyworth? Storyworth is an online service that helps you and your loved ones connect through sharing stories and memories and preserves them for years to come. I absolutely love this.

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That's story, S-T-O-R-Y, worth, W-O-R-T-H, dot com slash juicy to save $10 on your first purchase, storyworth.com slash juicy. And I went, Yeah, at that time, because you're always, you're so pretty. Oh, thank you. And you always had like the black hair and the blue eyes

and you've always kind of have like the edgy fashion style. Kind of, you know. Yeah. Like, were you like that then or not yet? Not really. Okay. I kind of hadn't really figured out who I was. And I met this guy online and he lived in Minneapolis and I went,

I'm just going to move there to be with this guy, which is the kind of thing I do. But wait, had you seen him before you moved? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you were like had a little long distance thing going. We had a little long distance thing going. Which by the way, at the time, it was quite unusual to meet someone on the internet. So everybody thought I was gonna get murdered. Yeah.

But it was- Well, guess what? You still couldn't get murdered. You can. You can. But I mean, people were shocked. Like what? You met him online?

I did. Right. Moved to Minneapolis and when I got there, I thought like, this is crazy. Nobody knows who I am. Like I could just do whatever I wanna do. I don't have to. And I walked into a strip club

and I said, I'm gonna start working here. And were you right to stripping or were you a waitress first? No, I went right to it. I took my clothes off that night. A complete, like complete badge out. No, actually that was, so this, the first club I went to was topless only.

But I was down to like a thong. Okay. Which is, sorry for the visual. I was cute then. But it was, I'm just saying, no one wants to see me in a thong now. At the time, I'm sure it was adorable. And then I made a little bit of money. I was never one of those strippers

that brings home like thousands of dollars a night. And this turns into regular. So you were one of those strippers that knew how to, yeah, so you weren't one of those that could get a regular and make them think that you love them and get so much. That is like such an art. It is.

People do not realize it is sales. Yes. And the girls who are the top sellers are absolute geniuses. Like they should be in a different field because if you have the ability to convince people that you actually have an emotional attachment to them while they are paying you for your time, you're a genius. And all you have to do is just go like this, right? On their bed.

More than that. Like you're just to do the, what I'm saying sexually, you don't have to do that much. You don't have to do much. Right. And the girls who made the most money were never the prettiest. And they were never had the best bodies

and they never, it was 100% like intellectual, cerebral, emotional intelligence. Wow. Okay, so you just were like, I was. Wow. Okay, so you just were like... I was like, whatever. Okay, yeah. Like I was having fun and I also... And did you make friends with the girls?

With the girls nice or was it weird and competitive? No, some of them were nice. Like the problem was that kind of environment, similar to the Playboy Mansion, if you've ever talked to the girls that came out of that system. Yeah, I've talked to all of them. That environment just fosters like competition and negativity. I've talked to all of them. That environment just fosters competition and negativity. I wanted it to be like a sorority house,

pajama party, but like most people were not very trusting and you can't blame them. Right. Yeah, because everyone, there's certain people have a story, but you didn't have a story. You weren't that girl that had nothing going on. I recognize that now at the time,

I think I didn't recognize my own privilege to be honest. And now I'm like, oh my God, like I had a college degree, like I had a supportive family and I wasn't an addict. I just, there were so many women in that situation that didn't have what I had. Right. Right. That go about life differently and they have to be a little bit cutthroat. Absolutely.

Because people were not looking out for them when they were young. No. They didn't look out for themselves. Yeah. And so, is this when you started to start your Tumblr account or whatever? Wasn't that it? Like you started to blog about it. This was pre-Tumblr actually.

I actually had to build my own blog with, I had to take an HTML class. So I took an HTML and JavaScript class so I could code my blog. That's how long ago this was. And then I started just, it's funny because initially I was just writing about my stupid day and my stupid hobbies and of course four people are reading it. Right. The day I started writing about stripping, all of a sudden, I have readers. All of a sudden, the hits are piling up and I went, okay, this is, I guess this is the shtick. Sex sells. I'm just going to write about stripping. And so that's what I did. And you know, it's so interesting too, because with influencers now, and you sometimes hear that and all of a sudden someone blows up and they're like, I've been on TikTok for two years doing cooking videos or whatever.

But then one day I talked about whatever my narcissistic mom and it went crazy. So I was like, sometimes you just don't know what the thing is. And you're like, well, yeah, this is interesting to people and it's interesting because it's the way I tell it. You know? I mean, it is. And I admit it's kind of a cheap hook. I mean, literally the reason I'm talking to you right now, the reason as a screenwriter,

they're sending me out to promote this movie, which usually they don't do with writers, is because of all that like wacky stripping should I did back in the day. So you start- Like that was how people found out who I was. So what was it? Didn't an agent somehow come across it?

So my manager that I'm still a manager. 20 years later. And I love when someone can be with someone for that long. We produce together now. And all of you people are lucky enough, you know? But then you see that a lot of successful people are ones that were able to find that great person. It's like finding the perfect marriage or whatever,

because they're the ones that when they get their thing, they're like, we've been working together for 30 years. You're like, oh my God, I, there's so few people that can say that in this business that has found that one person and stuck with them. Yeah. Heather, I was so lucky. I would, I'm still with the, my original manager, agent and attorney. And my, I was my agent's first client.

I mean, we're still, I have like, I really found the right people right off the bat and that's such a huge part of what I've been able to do. So this person reaches out to you. He reaches out to me over email through, because I had an email link on my blog and he was just like, I'm a Hollywood person. I'm a Hollywood manager and like, I think you have a voice for screenwriting.

You should try writing a script. And I was like, this guy's full of shit. Like, who is it? Can I swear? I was like, who is this dude? Like, this has to be fake. Right. So I Googled him, and I saw he had just worked... Yeah, I guess Google was there. Yeah. I looked him up.

Yeah. I searched Engine, and he had just worked on a movie with Wes Craven, and I'm a huge horror fan, and I was like, oh, my God, this is a legit person. I can't believe it. Right. So I said, okay. I I said I'll try writing a screenplay. And I just like bought some screenplays at Barnes & Noble and read them and I went, okay, I think I'll just try it.

And that was the beginning. And what was the first screenplay you wrote? Juno. Oh, that was the very first one. And how did you get the idea for that? I don't know. I think, here's what I remember, because it was a long time ago. I remember I was sitting at my little kitchen table in Minnesota,

and I was thinking to myself, like, I want to write a movie about a relationship that, like, exists in the world, but you don't see movies about it. And I was thinking about how, what a strange dynamic it must be for a couple to meet the person that is carrying the child they're going to adopt. And I went, all right, so I wrote, the first scene of the movie that I wrote was when the couple meet Juno, right? And it was a really, at the time I didn't know what I was doing, so the scene was like

17 pages long. I think in the movie it's probably two or three minutes, right? And, but I remember after writing it, I was like, okay, I think I, weirdly I think I the movie it's probably two or three minutes. Right. And but I remember after writing it, I was like, okay, I think I weirdly, I think I know who these people are. Like, and then I started from the beginning. Oh, okay. Very. And yeah, because, you know, it was such a great movie. We loved. And of course, you know, you got so blessed with the actors that were chosen. Jason Bateman and who was the wife? Jennifer Garner. And she was great. Her way of being so earnest and pure was just perfect, right? Yeah.

And I mean, everything about it was just, but then there were the twists. So like the twist of the Jason Bateman character not being so great. No. And he was- And now like when did you decide, did you know from before you sat down that that, did you know like this was gonna be the beginning, the middle, and the end before you ever started, or were you just starting to go

and it like led you to these- It's funny, at the time, I think I really was writing on like gut instinct, and I don't think I knew exactly what was going to happen. Now I'm really different now, especially because I have to be much more economical with my time. Yeah, with three sons.

Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, so now everything's outlined, everything's planned. I know exactly what scene is gonna come next. And also at the time, I just, I had no education in screenwriting or storytelling. So I was just, I knew I had to have three acts. And so I think I knew how each act was gonna end, but that was it.

So you're writing the script, are you still stripping? At the time, I was, but for most of Juno, I was working at an insurance company because I remember sitting at my little computer and switching over to Juno when I was on my lunch break. Oh, okay, okay. And then, and you're still with the guy? Yeah, I was still with my first husband.

I've now been married twice. Okay. But I was still with my first husband at the time, yeah. And he knows you're writing this script and he's like, this is amazing or all this is his thoughts. He was super supportive. Yeah. Like he was reading it as I went and he was like,

you know this is really good, right? And I was like, of course you're gonna say that. You know, but like he was like, he was reading it as I went and he was like, you know this is really good, right? And I was like, of course you're gonna say that, you know? But like he was like, no, no, no, he's like, I actually think this is like a good movie. So then when you send it over to the manager person. Yeah. And what, how quickly did, did he get back and was like, no, see, this is what I love about Mason.

He is like the most blasé person. He has never ever in all the years that I've known him, he's never blown any smoke up my ass. He is just very like, yeah, let's see. I remember even in the beginning, before I even wrote the script, he said to me, he's like, look, you really don't have to be very good at this.

He's like, cause I have a pile of scripts on my desk and most of them are bad. So you just have to be like a little bit better than these bad scripts. And he's like, I think you can do that. Like you see maybe kind of talented. Like he was never like Hollywood about it. Like he was very, and he still isn't like that.

So he read it and he was like, look, he's like, let's see what we can do with this. He didn't, you know, he wasn't, I should ask him about it now. Cause maybe he did love it, but he didn't let on, but he did. And then one day I was at work and he was just calling me over and over

and I was like, oh my God. And then he told me- And you're still at the insurance thing, typing away, doing your thing. So at that point, I was always bouncing from job to job and I still would be if I hadn't landed here. At that point I was working at a local paper. I actually had a paid writing job at that point,

and he called me at the paper while I was in a staff meeting, and I was like, I can hear my phone ringing in the hallway, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go get that. And he's like, pick up, I have the best news, and it turned out that someone wanted to make the movie. So, and so then, then from there, how quickly do you and your first husband move to LA? I moved to LA.

I mean, that was like, I don't want to, I can't talk about that. Right, but that's when you were like, okay, I think this relationship has run its course. Well, there was a lot going on, but it was, I wound up moving to Los Angeles. Yes. So then, I mean, when the movie hits,

you get nominated for original screenplay. Yeah. And where were you when you found out you were nominated? Because Chris and I, Chris was on yesterday. Not yesterday, but whatever the search, you know, last week. Chris Frangelo was on and we talked about the Oscars. Oh, Chris Frangelo was here? Yeah, we talked about the Oscars.

And I always remember people would say that story of like, some people I think would lie and be like, oh, the phone ring at 5 a.m. and I thought someone died. I hate that when people act like they didn't know the nominations for that day. It's like, come on, you were sitting up and you know it. No, I was actually so I was scheduled. This is like, did you know it was a possibility? Yes. Yeah, totally. Yes. Because all the other things and yeah, I had been nominated for everything leading up to it. Okay. So I was like, yeah, I knew I was gonna get nominated. Like, I wish I could be like, I was shocked.

I knew it. But I was sitting in a hotel because I was gonna be on Letterman that night because I think they also knew I was gonna get nominated. So they were like, this'll work. And I had a friend with me and they announced the nominations and we did the weirdest thing.

We ran out of the hotel. We ran down the street to the gap. We burst into the gap and then my friend yelled, she got nominated for an Oscar, I'm going to buy her a sweater and bought me a green sweater. Just because. Yes, so I have a green sweater

that is my souvenir of that day. I kept it. Yeah. And okay, so you get nominated. And I remember, I remember what you wore. You wore a leopard dress. Yeah, that they picked out for me. I mean, at the time it was like just this whirlwind of like,

here's what you're gonna wear. What do you mean? You didn't get to pick it out? I mean, I sort of did. So the studio hired a stylist for me, which I've never had a stylist since then, which you can probably tell. But I was like, and it was like, you know, like a fancy,

it was like Jessica Simpson's stylist. Like I was like, what is going on? And at the time, Heather, in 2007, 2008, they did not know how to dress anyone that was not the sample size. Like, and no designer would dress anyone that was not the sample size. So it was a challenge.

Like they were just like, here is a Moo Moo. But yeah, that was a leopard Dior dress. I still have that. I actually thought it was really great. Thank you. No, I loved wearing it too. I just remember at the time everyone was like, that is so ugly. Who's, oh, you mean like critics? Well, that's back when people were, that's fashion police time where people would say awful stuff.

That was the time it was like, snark was like the things that Chelsea lately tried. No, I was literally going to say, and we were part of it. I was always like, oh my God. We said such God, the amount of things that I was like, Dan and I sometimes talk about how problematic some of the content on that show is for now. about how problematic some of the content on that show was. Oh my God, for now. I remember with the YouTube, they had a fan post.

It was a fake fan. It was one of the editors would post on this YouTube. And that is how I kind of became better known, is I did this video where I was Heidi of Spencer and Heidi and we went to the beach and we did this whole thing and we mocked their music video. Now I'm very good friends with both of them, you know, and they're still married and they're like, you know, I love them. Yes, they're like two kids and all the whole thing. But that got millions of views on YouTube. And then E was kind of like,

oh, we don't want people posting it till after whatever. It airs and then so then they controlled it. Nobody could post anything but that, which was fine. But then when the show ended, I think they were mad at Chelsea and they took it all down. And at first I show ended, I think they were mad at Chelsea and they took it all down and at first I was like, I can't believe that. No, I'm like, thank God. Oh yeah, no, I know. I'm like, oh my God, please. And there's still some like hate groups that will bring up stuff

that I do. I'm like, what do you want? No, it's good that it's scrubbed. Yeah. I mean, it's there. I did it. We did it. It happened. What do you want from me? You know, like it exists. People grow and change.

That's the whole point. I'm not doing it today. Yeah. So, so. Well, that's my, that's always the point that I'm making is like, I don't understand. Like I think it's a wonderful thing when people change.

Yeah. And grow and educate themselves. Yes. So for me, it's like, I don't quite understand sometimes the, I get the, I understand call-out culture, I get it and it's necessary. And cancel culture is necessary in some situations too. Goodbye Harvey. But like, I think if somebody has shown a willingness to change and like an actual actual growth, like, that's a good thing. Most weight loss plans are one size fits all. And they don't take into account each person's individual needs. Well, that's a good thing. Most weight loss plans are one size fits all and they don't take into account

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recipes to grow better living. Available to buy now, everywhere books are sold. Speaking of Harvey Weinstein, had you ever heard any rumblings before it all came to fruition? Everyone had. Oh, really? Oh yeah, everybody knew. That's what's so crazy about that situation.

And so many of those situations where it was like, no one is surprised to hear that, you know, Scott Rudin's abusive or like, you know, it's like people just knew that. But did you ever have any opportunity to work with him in which you'd have to make a decision? No, I never was cornered by Harvey. I never worked with him.

But what if you had been approached to work on something? To work on something? Not where you had to go and meet him at the peninsula. But having heard rumors and stuff, do you honestly think that would have ever made you go, you know what, can we look for a different film? No, I'm going to be honest with you. Right. At the time.

I love that you're honest. I would think I can see what people did. I would have done it. And so did many other people. Yeah. You know, I probably would have said like, okay, I'll just, I'll be careful. I wouldn't have been thinking about the fact

that I don't want this monster to continue to profit. Like, and now I would feel differently. But at the time I was, honestly, I was very, I had tunnel vision and was very self-centered. Yeah. I mean, I understand that when it's Hollywood and you don't want to turn down any opportunity and you think that opportunity may not come around again. And so you can, you know, put the blinders on or compartmentalize or whatever it takes to be like, yeah, exactly that. And then in retrospect, you're like, yeah, you know, I'm always waiting for someone to come out. And I've said this so many times and be like, look,

I did sleep with these people to get apart because I knew that was the only way to get me in front. And then guess what? I, everyone saw how great I was. And then I never had to sleep with creeps again. But I would love it if some actress who I know is walking on this earth still today could just be really honest about her story. Heather, this is like the exact,

like I sent this whole Ted Talk to my group chat at one point where I said the same thing. Oh really? I said, you know, the people we are not hearing from are the people who willingly slept with people as a transaction to get ahead. Right.

They exist. Why is nobody talking about it? Because I actually think that's an important story to share. And I actually think- If I had, I would tell you. And thank you. And I also think there's, that's being a feminist too. That's being like, I was smart enough to know that I was not gonna get that part the legit way.

Yeah. And I knew the guy was here and I knew what I had to do. And I said, just give me this part and I fucking killed that small part. And from there, I never had to suck another dick. Like just say it, like just, I mean, I never- It would be so interesting.

And I think it would be empowering. Empowering, powering. And also I think it would, yeah, women had to do stuff we didn't wanna do, but we were smart enough to be like, I'm gonna count to whatever, hold my breath, get through it, and know that I just need people to see me, and they're not gonna see me because my parents aren't famous, or whatever, you know?

That's the thing, I mean, that's why I've always fully acknowledged the fact that the reason that I got to become like a screenwriter with a face, a recognizable screenwriter, which there are not that many of us, is because I did like sexy stuff, at the time, that was how I got my foot in the door. And I mean, I also just think, yes, you're a female,

you're unique and you were young. Yeah. How young were you when you got nominated? I wasn't that young, I was 29. So that's pretty, you know. Yeah, I know, but I was like. It's still somewhat on your show, right? Yeah.

And also you were like hip and you had like a, you know, an edgy style and I think that was just something that was fun to see. It was, you know, it all fit and it was cool. And at the time it was, it's funny looking back because I feel like the new generation of public figures are able to really express themselves and talk about their sexuality. And it's like, it must be so fun. Right. It must be so fun to just be like, yeah, I'm queer. I'm this and that, you know, it's like at the time it was just like

me having tattoos was wild. It was wild. Yeah. It was like, oh my god, it was like people thought it was the craziest thing and I'm like, I don't know. It was like, how does this tattoo girl know how to write? I know. It was honestly that was that was that was really like the dialogue around me.

It was like a stripper with tattoos who's literate. Yeah. And it's just like so ridiculous. Yeah. Okay, so, well, we started to have fun. You started to become such a personality. And you had some other, I remember you had your red trailer. What did you have?

Oh yeah, I had a red band trailer. Thank you for bringing this up. This is like, nobody talks about this. You had your own talk show. I had a little YouTube talk show in my Airstream trailer and interviewed celebs and it was fun. And how does it, I mean, do you, what was it like to kind of go from being the writer,

then kind of being your own famous person, you know, where you were like a famous person and recognizable and going back to sort of being more of the writer, you know, have you directed as well? I directed once and I didn't like it. Okay. But the writer creator, do you get recognized as you walk through it? No, oh my God, no, no, no. And that's honestly, I prefer it that way. To me, I-

Do you don't miss any of that? No, absolutely not. And I avoid it honestly because when you're in the academy, you were asking me before we began. You said you get invited to the Oscars. The answer is no. However, I do because I'm in the voting body get invited to these crazy parties every year

where it's like, fancy A-lister type parties, but I never go to any of them. I haven't been to one in years because I just, I don't, I realized from that whole experience you're talking about that I'm not comfortable being a public figure. And I'm not comfortable being a public figure. Like, and I'm not comfortable in like celebrity circles and I just like being in the valley with my dirty kids.

That's what I like. It's too much to get all dressed up and go. It's too, it's like stressful for you. It is not fun. I find it incredibly stressful. Okay. It's, I guess, like sometimes I think to myself, you should just get back out there and I'm like, I guess, like sometimes I think to myself, and you should just get back out there.

And I'm like, I don't know. I think it's good to recognize, you know, at a certain point like, no, that's not my vibe. It's not my vibe. It's like the girl that pretends like she's into camping with her boyfriend. And she's not into fucking camping. I literally had to pretend that I was into getting dressed up

and like into like being- Shmoozin'.. Yeah, it's not I just don't like it Yeah, I like it do you that's great. You ever decide you want to go to something again and bring you yeah Well, I got invited to your other premiere. That's why that's actually one of the times I saw you in the last few years I'm sorry that I don't remember the name, but it was the movie about the mom suffering from post-partum. Tully, tell me. Yeah, you were there. Tilly. Tully.

Wait, how do you- T-U-L-L-Y. Oh, that's it. That's a really good movie. Thank you. That was a really juicy movie with a twist. And knowing that you were a mom of three, was that at all your story?

Oh yeah, definitely. You suffered from postpartum? I did, and it's funny because the first couple of times it didn't happen, and then I had Nico and I was just- That's your baby? Yeah, my baby who's eight now. I'm making it sound like it's his fault. I'm like, and then Nico came and fucked every, no he's-

Well also, a third, I'm just thinking, you have more going on with, you have two other ones you have to watch, you know? So I just think every situation is different, which is why birth order is something I find fascinating. Same. Because you can have the same parents, you could have raised, been raised in the same neighborhood, the same home, and you're going to have a totally different experience

than maybe your sibling who's six years older. Or younger. 100%. And I'll be honest with you, like I bet off more than I could chew with three kids. I couldn't believe you had a third. Me neither. It was because that psychic told me I was gonna have a girl. And I was like, oh, here she comes.

This all, is this all your fault? I think this is all my fault, but you have a perfect Nico now. No, I'm just kidding. No, Nico's incredible and he's also so necessary to the dynamic of our family. Like, you know how to mean like every person. He needs to be there and he's awesome.

But like at the time, I definitely bit off more than I could chew. And how did you suffer from it? Did you know this was what was happening to you? No, that's the thing. I think it's really hard to see. And I didn't realize what was going on until I went to, Nico was a few weeks old and I briefly ducked out of the house

to see a friend. And she immediately saw that there was, it was the same friend that bought me the sweater actually. Oh, so she knows you well. Yeah, and she, Dana, she saw that I was suffering. And she said, you need help. I'm gonna help you. And she's one of those very connected people

that makes a phone call and makes things happen. And she made a phone call and that night, there's this knock on my door and it's this baby nurse, which I'd never had like one of those night nannies. I never did either yet. Yeah, and I just- Which by the way, I'm like, if you can afford it or if you're looking to give someone a gift

Oh my god or something life changing even if it's can be like every other night they come or something I think that is so great and I had been so like Let's not be about it But it's like you know that you meet people in this business where it's like their entire parenting experience is outsourced Yes, and you're like i I'm not gonna be that one. I don't wanna be that person. And so I'd always been really like, no, I'm gonna sit up with my babies every night.

And I did it with Marcella, I did it with Rocco. Nico, I wasn't even able to parent the other two during the day because I was like so depressed, so tired. And then this angel shows up and suddenly I just handed her the baby and I went to sleep. And Tully that was based on this experience of like, what if somebody could just help you? Yeah.

Yeah, I thought that was great. I think it was great. So that was wild time. So now you've got these three kids, three boys, They're older. You're divorced. Are you dating? Yeah, I've had a boyfriend for almost three and a half years. We've been together. Oh, how nice. Yeah Yeah, and everybody's great along. You know that I'm not gonna knock the table because I've been advised not to do that But usually I'm a wood knocker. Yes, and I am very very fortunate for the extended sort of blended family unit that I have going on I love that. Yeah, so nice because it's so rare.

It's more rare than normal. It is. I wish it was less rare because it really is nice when it works, especially for the kids. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the Oscars. What did you think of the Barbie snub? Well, here's the thing.

Like, if you told me I could write a movie that would make a billion dollars worldwide, but you said I had to trade in my Oscar for that, I would do it so fast that you don't, like, basically I'm saying Barbie already won in my book because I think that to me having a movie that is that powerful, that successful, like a topic of conversation for like a freaking year.

Like, I think that's better than an Oscar nominate. Plus, plus, Margot and Greta both got nominated for as producers. They got nominated as producers, Greta got nominated for writing, and like, I obviously, I think she deserved to be nominated for Best Director. And I think Margot should have been nominated for Best Actress. But they're fine. Well, I think I like to make lemonade out of lemons often. And I think it's like poetic justice. It's almost like a gift that they got a little snubbed because it was like, yeah, this is what it is.

This is what the movie is about. Oh yeah, like it's just- Like it's almost perfect. Like had they also- It's part of the movie is about. Oh, yeah. Like, it's just. It's almost perfect. Like, had they all- It's part of the marketing campaign to get snubbed. Yeah, it almost like, like it literally almost like works people to be more behind the movie and more like, girl, you know, that next movie is going to even be bigger and better. And you're right, they still get to go.

They still get the accolades and all of that. But the other thing I was going to say so much, but you do get to vote, right? As a winner they still get to go, they still get the accolades and all of that. But the other thing I was gonna say so much, but you do get to vote, right? As a winner, you get to vote? Or you don't get to vote? I get to vote in the Writers Branch. Oh, okay. So you only get to vote for the writing ones?

I don't get to vote for Best Director, no. Oh, I think I do. Okay, I'll be honest with you. I did not vote this year because I didn't see everything and also I'm late on my dues. Like I'm not eligible to vote right now and I just gotta be real. So how does it work? Who does the nomination?

How many people are in charge of nominating who these five people are? Do you know that answer? I know. No, I don't. Where is your Oscar? It's so I have- Do you even deserve to have this? Knowing no answers?

No, just kidding. The answer is no. I have my Oscar and my Tony, which are the, because I'm hoping to build the EGOT event. I don't know if that will happen. It rarely does. I have them out on just a nice little sort of console table in my living room. But you've had television series. I have them out on just like a nice little sort of console table in my living room. But that's... But you've had television series. I have, but I've never won an Emmy or anything. But you could.

I could try. Now, we liked... You're still a fan of The Bachelor. Yes, always was. There's a... There was a season I've skipped, but... Wasn't there also a Bachelor like after show that you were on? I was on... Like you and Kris Jenner were on it all the time. It was like I've skipped, but- Wasn't there also a bachelor like after show that you were on? I was on-

Like you and Kris Jenner were on it all the time? And it was like, yes. I used to be like a more committed member of Bachelor Nation. I would do like the after shows and stuff, but like- Me too, I used to cover it on- Yes. On Juicy Scoop and everything. And I did sort of start to, you know what?

I think I, I kind of, I, much like Chris Harrison got a little, you know, I mean, there's a reason why he got the boot, which is stupid, but like, I, what happened, I was like, well, he's a little old. He's no longer the wingman. Like when it started a million years ago, he was the same age as that first Michael Michelle or whatever his name was.

Alex Michelle. Alex Michelle. The first bachelor. They were like buddies. Like it was the same age. And then I was like, you know, as time goes on, I think that the host should be some, you know, cause it was like,

she'd come out there towards the end and the girls would have no makeup on and they look like they're about 12, you know, even though they're like 22 or something. And he'd be like, so girls, overnight's her tomorrow. And I was like, I was just kind of like, okay, maybe this is a little, so I think, you know, I think,

and I was just on Caitlin Bristow's show. Am I too old to be honest? Is that what you're saying? No, I think that, I'll tell you really quite honestly, they stopped having douchey of frat guys on, and that's my type. And I stopped being attracted. They were too artsy-fartsy for me.

And I liked a douchey frat. And then also I think they're just too young. Like now I'm just like, oh my God, like 24, 25. There were times when the bachelor was like 35 and like owned bars. Remember that one guy? Yeah. Like there were a little bit older and the actuals. That's why I love Nick Viles because he's like, he was always like the older dude in

the group. Yes. And now, and they had, sometimes they had money now it's just like you're the run up, the runner up. So it was like originally it was like, they picked that bachelor because Alex Michel because he had money and everything. And but now it's just who was the fan favorite from the prior season. He never got married.

I don't think I didn't know. No one could probably correct me. So he truly what he manifested being the bachelor. I think I always thought he seemed kind of gay, but not that that matters. But I don't know. I mean, certainly would have come out now. I mean, the other guy did come out. He did and got married.

Yeah, well, I just watched the premiere of the new season of Bachelor the other night. And I have to say, it's excuse, incredibly young this season. Because the Bachelor himself's in his 20s. And the girls are like 23, 24. Yes, it's all too young for me. Yeah. So when I did the show, I was Katie, it was a Bachelorette,

and I was facilitating a date was a bachelorette, and I was facilitating a date. And I remember this, and I was just like, these guys were just, there was, you know, of course I was only like into talking to like one of them that was like, turned out to be the biggest dick, but like he was like dark hair and darker skin, I don't know, and he was, I can't remember his name, but he was really tall

and he was really charming. I was helping him with his skit or whatever. And he was like, I was feeling it. Yeah. I was feeling it. And I was like, OK. But I do think that, yeah, I just sort of, but I could get back into it.

And then I started to watch the gold in Bachelor. And then I came across this guy on TikTok that did such a good impression of Jerry. Oh, I saw him. It's incredible. And he was like, oh, you make me feel so special. That's so special. I was just dying laughing.

No, that is a solid impression that he has. Do you think that Jerry was into Teresa, you perked up? What do you realize how much money she had? It was so obvious. I'm sorry. Like, I don't want to talk trash about them. I wish them all the happiness in the world. Because they are now married, right?

But it was so obvious to me that his whole vibe changed when he found out that she was successful. And lived in North Carolina and had her home. Well, they always say old guys want a nurse and a purse. Oh. That's the saying. They want a woman who can take care of him as he ages and money.

Okay, I've heard that expression, but I've heard it differently. What have you heard a woman say? I don't want to be a nurse or a purse. I don't want to be a nurse for an old fart and I don't want to be a purse for a young buck. Oh, if you'll see, you could also wind up being a nurse and a purse to an old guy,

which would be the worst of both worlds. Right. I'm happy to be a purse for a hot young man. I know my friend's mother, who was incredible looking. She was, you know, not a stranger to the plastic surgery, but she was always petite, always had like a nice ass and like just really good body. Anyway, she meets this guy at the gym

and he keeps asking her out and she's like, do you know how old I am? And he is like 52 and she's like 70. And he was like, aren't you like 52 or something? Like, aren't you like my age? And she's like, no, and he won't stop. And she's got grandkids and she's married and everything. And so they get married.

And he goes on a bike ride and he gets in an accident. And she was the nurse in the first. Interesting. And then when he recovered, then they got divorced. I mean, those are scary stories. Well, you never know. I'm saying, like, everyone thought, oh my god, how is he going to marry this woman

and she's going to be in a wheelchair. And it was like, no, it's, oh my God, how is he gonna marry this woman and she's gonna be in a wheelchair? And it was like, no, it's the opposite. So you never know. Like, there's no guarantee of like marrying someone old and rich or marrying someone rich, they're gonna stay rich or marrying someone young. And she's gonna stay hot. Yeah, like there's no, so if you like someone,

you like someone, just be happy that you guys have something to talk about at dinner. That's, I agree with you completely. And I also feel the same way when people are like, how can someone have a baby when they're 45? Because they're gonna, and it's like, you don't know what's gonna happen to anyone. Right.

Like you could have a baby when you're 21 and something bad gonna happen. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like, we have no clue what happens in life. So like, let's just roll a dice in the end. Or when someone's like, like I saw this girl, like she was like, I'm an old mom or whatever, she's holding a baby. She's like, I'm an old mom or whatever, she's holding a baby.

She's like, I'm gonna be at a high school graduation at 60. So what? Who cares? That's why I say, like, is 60 old? Is 60s not old if you take care of yourself? Like, what are you talking about? You could be at a high school graduation at 60, that is not, you could be at a high school graduation

for your 18 year old when you're 70, it's not. This is what I say. Yeah. Because like, obviously I have no, I'm done having children, so this is not me personally. But when I have friends who are my age or older and are like, should I have, I'm like, yeah, why not? Yeah, like exactly.

It's kind of chic, to be honest. It's like a celebrity thing to do. And then when people are like, oh, but look at the world today, I'm always like, the world's been shit forever. Yeah. I'm like, people are still having babies during World War II. People are having babies after Vietnam.

People are having babies when there was no gas Yeah, and I mean my mom said she was at the grocery store with the five kids and this woman walked up to her and said How dare you overpopulate the world like this? I Mean and that's what people thought people thought we were gonna be overpopulated That that people like my mom, having five kids was ruining the environment. I mean, there's a lot of people who still fell that way. Imagine if there was no Heather.

And look, the problem is you don't have a private jet, you're fine, I know, imagine, exactly. No, but it's like, it's just so dumb. So I'm like, no, if your desire on this earth is to be a mother or a father, go for it. Whatever means it takes. That's your right. Don't think about that the world is ending and you just go be friends with Jeff Bezos

or Mark Zuckerberg and swim down to the cave. Living anything. Yeah, I need to live in Mark Zuckerberg's bunker that he's building in Hawaii. Mix friends with that lady. Try to find out what's, yeah, what's cool. I need to figure that out. Yeah, what's cool. Hi, wanna work on the committee together? Okay, so you started to watch The Bachelor

and you're into it? I'm into it, but it is harder to relate to. I keep getting older, they keep getting younger. Did you like the Golden Bachelor? I got a little bored. You loved it? Okay, so I do think it fell off a little bit as the season went on, but I did love it. And the reason I loved it is because it was the first time in many years that we had seen

a cast of people who weren't all trying to become influencers who weren't like they were just they were truly looking for companionship. So there was a sincerity to it that you don't see with the younger folks. And what I loved is the women, like really kind of became friends and everything. And I'm like, yeah, this is great. Like you guys all have, you're all older,

but you're still fit. Like you can all go to Europe together. Go to your Malthecosis summer. You found a bunch of women that are single. That's like a dream come true. I said before the show aired, I said I would not be surprised if a group of the women wind up just walking off together. Yeah.

Because these are older women who are like no bullshit. Right. Like are not gonna like stand for shit. And like they're all gonna like each other and they're all gonna be like, you know what, fuck this guy. Yeah, like who cares? Like I'm surprised it didn't happen. And then I, did they ever say

is there gonna be a golden, golden Bachelorette? So here's the thing. They are trying. It's an inside scoop. I wish I had like the full like Mike Fly scoop, but like they're trying to, but it's difficult to find a bunch of guys that aren't like, because of-

The nurse of the purse. The nurse of the purse or like honestly, a lot of these, a lot of old dudes who are like great on paper want to be with like way younger women. Totally. Which is, you know, sad. But reality. I kind of think you gotta do it a little bit all around.

Like you did it in the, they had to be over 60. Cause I guess by somebody I know, oh, my friend who lives in Phoenix, she had a friend who went out for it. And according to her, they said, no, the women have to be over 60, at least 60 for that, for the Golden Baxler because you're 72. So they didn't want women in their fifties. But I think you do it more like the 55 ish range. Because then if you find like a, like a woman who is like the 55-ish range. Because then if you find like a woman who is like maybe

55 but like fit and your kids are growing and everything, then you could, she could skew both ways. All right. So we could have older guys and younger guys. Like if she's like a young, youthful 55 and she's banging, which there's tons of them around. I mean, I'm not too far off. And so I'm like, there's tons of them around, they exist. And, but so she could date like a guy who's like 65, but she could also date like a 48 year old and it would not be weird.

It's a good idea, but here's what I'll tell you. The discourse around this would be so negative because people would go, how come the golden bachelor gets to be 72? Or however old Gary is. But why does the golden bachelor ratorette have to be 55? We need to call it something not the golden bachelorette. We need to create, you know how there's like Cougars.

Yeah, like a Cougar. There was Cougars and there's Pumas. Like there's got to be a name. I guess there's a, it's Gray Cougar, which is a good. Gray Puma, no. But yeah, you're right. It's a hard thing and I, who cares? What do you think of Travis and Taylor?

Do you think they're going to get married? I do. I have been calling this from the beginning. I think they're- So have I. Because first of all, like she's at that exact stage of her 30s where you were just like, let's do this. Exactly.

I think that she is, first of all, I am a Swifty. Who isn't? Who isn't? Yes, who isn't? Let's her all, I am a Swifty. Who isn't. Yeah, who isn't. I love them together. Let's her mom, she's a good friend. But she gets to, she's getting to cosplay as a normie in a way that I think is thrilling for her. Like she's hanging out in Kansas City with people.

And like, do you know what I mean? Like she's just like getting to have an experience. I don't think she got to have because she spent her teens, you know, building this career. Yeah. And I think now she's getting to be the like girlfriend that stands with like the football player.

But I just think it's like, I think she's happy. Now I followed Taylor's career as well. I like her music just like anybody else, but I'm not hardcore Swiftie. But what I love about Taylor is so much, but she's a super talented, good girl, thanking her mother when she won her first award. But she's kind of a geek.

Let's just, in the expression, she's kind of a geek. And, but she was a talented, pretty geek. So the people around her when she was coming up in high school were fucking assholes to her. They were really mean and they mocked her because they were jealous bitches. And she kind of knew that. And there's some classics, there's some urban myth story or something where like she knew it and she like invited everybody to something.

And like she knew that these people in high school were like dicks about it, even though she was like on and winning and everything. So then now after the Kanye thing that really fucked with her brain and everything and really like everyone hated her and Kim made it seem like she lied when she didn't. And she was like, I have the proof and everything and really like everyone hated her and Kim made it seem like she lied when she didn't and she was like, I have the proof and everything and she went away for a year and then she comes back stronger than ever. And everybody just realizes that like she totally is a girl who supports women, isn't jealous, is a heart like has her girls with her, celebrates women, gives them a way for

them to shine too. She's just so great. And yeah, now she gets to be with this cute normal guy who has, you know, that everyone likes who's super talented. And I said the same thing as you. Like I think she's kind of pragmatic and like, this is my time to, this is appropriate time, age wise, to get married and have kids and stuff. And I will be heartbroken if it doesn't happen.

So my theory, because I really think about this a lot. Who does it? So she's playing, I'm probably gonna ruin it now. I hope they don't see this. We do predictions all the time. Your predictions can win. I believe in May that she's gonna be playing, the heiress tour is gonna be in Paris.

And I'm like, he's going to do, because doesn't he seem like the kind of guy who does the like, kind of tower proposal? Like he's kind of like basic in a hot way. Yes. So I think they're going to get engaged in Paris. Is there a chance that his team is going to the Super Bowl?

So if they do, that's going to be tough for her because she's playing Tokyo. Like I said, this is my Roman Empire. She is, she's gonna have to do a quick jaunt from Tokyo to wherever the Super Bowl is, but like, can she make it? Is her show Saturday night?

She can make it, don't worry, she can make it. Wait, so is her Tokyo show Saturday? I believe it is, but she's gonna cross the international date line. What does that mean, you gain the hours back? It means like you like get the day back or something. Oh, okay, okay. I'm a moron, okay you like get the day back or something. Okay, okay. I'm a moron. Okay, let's just be real about this.

Okay, so she comes and she goes to game. Yeah. But if they win, it won't be then because that's, she's not gonna wanna step on that moment. He's not, so I agree with you on that. They won't get engaged at the Super Bowl, no. Okay. I'm saying, I'm thinking Paris, but like, I don't know.

I also thought they were gonna get engaged at her birthday and I was wrong about that. Maybe that was too soon. I like her idea of the May because I feel like, won't that be almost like, almost a year of dating which is also appropriate? Oh yeah. I mean, you know they're on that accelerated 30s timeline?

Yeah, yeah. But I think that that could be, I don't know. Yeah. I don't want to be this invested, but like, it's, I, oh wait, when people didn't think it was real, I was like, no, I totally think it's real. I think it's so cute. And yeah, I just love it.

I have a question for you about though, that is it real of it all? Yes. I find that people, the sort of general public discourse about relationships with celebrities is people are always like, this is fake, this is fake, this is for publicity. Because they don't want people to be happy.

But I don't think it ever is. Like I personally, I've been in this business for 20 years now. I've never known anyone in a publicity relationship. Interesting. Nor have I ever gotten any inside scoop on a relationship being fake. So I'm kind of thinking that maybe that doesn't happen,

but maybe I'm naive and I'm being left out of that whole conversation. Okay, and now? Like do you Heather, do you know anyone who's been in a relationship that's fake? I can't remember now who this couple was, but they would go out a lot, they'd be in paparazzi and the walks looked like it was fake and they were young.

Like I can't remember who they were. And now I can't remember if it ever stuck. It was... Yeah, you're right. I think every... Well, I did kind of wonder about the Kylie and the Timothy. I mean, that seems real to me. But I don't know. They're cute.

I mean, I just also think in this day and age, who's faking, why fake it? Like, what are you gaining? I mean, does anyone really need like a beard anymore or whatever like who cares? So I don't know what the point of that would be. But in the beginning of the Kylie and Timothy, it just seemed weird.

It seemed like- But they were being so private about it. I feel like if it had been for publicity, they would have been doing pop strolls and stuff. Yeah. And also it just so not, well, we think we know her type, but she's young. Not everybody has a type, obviously.

She went from like this hardcore rapper to like this, Well, we think we know her type, but she's young. Not everybody has a type, obviously. Yeah. She went from like this hardcore rapper to like this, you know, artsy thin boy. So it's like, I think people were like, but you know. The heart wants what it wants. Yeah. I mean, that'd be pretty amazing if they really. They went the distance. Yeah.

That would be cute. And he's like a stepdad to the kids and everything. Are you friends with Kris Jenner? I mean, I'm friendly. Yeah. That would be cute. And he's like a stepdad to the kids and everything. Are you friends with Kris Jenner? I mean, I'm friendly. I've always been friendly with her, but I certainly am not calling her and asking her about Timothy.

No, I'm just saying she must be psyched because this is really, they're leveling up. I mean, I think she's happy. She is the most supportive of everybody, probably too supportive of the men in the lives. Like, ah, she's making like a stocking for Tristan and stuff. Yes, I remember like, I'd put his stocking in the street

and run over it with my car. I remember going to a dinner years ago and Lamar and Chloe, if they weren't getting divorced yet, he had been caught with women and they were broken up and everything. And she had like a dinner for her birthday at her house, Chris did. And Lamar shows up with, you know, some designer box, some fancy purse. And she was like, oh, Lamar, and they sit down and, you know, he's just like

pouring his heart out to her and she's being so sweet. And I think she was always, you know, I thought, well, he doesn't have parents, Lamar. So I think she was always like a mother figure. She was a mother figure. Scott's parents both died very young. When he was very young, I mean, when he was, you know, whatever, like 10 years ago, they passed.

So she was always for him being like, I'm not gonna let this right relationship end. Then the Tristan, everyone's too nice about the Tristan. Yeah, so she's- The Kanye though, I think she's been like, she's probably- Yeah, she's like, yeah, she's not- She's not started calling her Chris Jong-un on Twitter. I think that might've been the breaking point

for Chris Jenner. And there was that moment where Kim, I guess, wrote, it was like, please, my mom is 65 years old. Can you leave her the fuck alone? And then he screenshots that and puts it on Instagram, which to make matters worse. What are you doing, man? I mean, when I see, talk about the opposite of what you have in getting along with your ex and raising your kids together, all the money in the world, all the planes, all the perfect bodies, skims, perfect face, you know, muted home, whatever.

The fact that she has to deal with that fucker for at least, I think the youngest boy, Psalm, couldn't even be three yet, or four max. So and then college, I mean, we're talking for the next 20 years, she's going to have to deal with him. And whatever new weird chick he brings around or what this is, I mean, I think the girl's in on it. I think she's getting paid. Oh, really? I think she's getting paid. And I think this is his weird artsy, and I think it's to mock him. I definitely get the vibe that something about it is meant to trigger and mock him. For sure, where it's like this person looks like you, but I'm going to put them in submissive situations or something like that.

And she's younger and she's pretty, very, very pretty. I really respect him because she refuses to speak negatively about him and that's got to be challenging. I know. I'm like really good gonna go to the soccer game when she shows up with a pair of nylons up to her nipples holding a purple pillow. And you have to be like, hey,

I got the orange slices together. Like, I mean, I just like, that is where I'm like, but you know what, they knew he was weird and they all, he elevated them first. Oh Totally elevated them and I feel like they all were like oh My god, you know, he's such a genius. He's so great. He's so gentle He was richer than them when they got together and now Kim's a billionaire. I mean Kim has in, in my opinion, from what I understand,

she's got way more money than him. Yeah, for sure. And does he even have the ability to get Ever back on track? Does anyone care? I mean, I almost feel like he's kind of passed his prime, and then all the awful things that he said, all the anti-everything that he has said, is, I mean, are we going to want

his ugly clothes? I remember when the whole family, including Caitlin got into, did the fashion show was wearing like ripped, ripped clean, and they're all like, oh, we love it, ripped cream clothes. And I mean, it was so the emperor has no clothes. I was like, what is this? I want to believe, Kanye has said and done some extremely problematic things. With that aside, I mean, in his prime as a musician,

I was such a fan. And it's like, I would love to see him make that level of music again. I just don't know if he will. But like, what happened? Remember when he had the church every Sunday, like two years ago? Oh yeah.

And everybody was going, it was at the forum. And then he was like, then he was gonna have the... He was starting, gonna start like a Colton Wyoming or something, wasn't he? No, he was like... He was starting something, he calabated, he abandoned that, then there was gonna be a school, that's been abandoned.

Then he was telling her when they were still together, when she was getting ready for the Met and she wore the one outfit that looked like it was wet, but it was like all these drops. It was amazing. It was amazing. And she like, and he was like, well, your mother for why are you wearing that? And I remember she was like,

I know you're only your like journey to Christ, but like the thing is tomorrow, fucker. And you were part of picking this out. Cause he was originally wearing, making her wear weird clothes. Remember that's, I think he kind of, I can't, I don't want to speculate about someone's mental health, but it seems like Kanye has episodes

of religious psychosis. Because then in a couple of weeks, he'll be totally different and he'll, you know, but I, yeah, it's a tough situation for him. Yeah. The movie, Lisa Frankenstein. I want to know, like, again, I asked you how you thought of Juno, and that's Nis being your latest film.

What made you think of doing this movie, because it's about a girl who falls in love with this corpse, but then comes around, and it is very dark, and it is very funny, and there's some really crazy scenes that you have never seen in any other movie. So like, how did you think of this like Frankenstein idea of kind of creating this monster

that she then falls in love with? Well, I feel like over the years, we've seen so many movies about men creating the perfect woman. Whether it's- Oh yeah, it's like weird science. Weird science major in spoke for this movie. That's why the main character is named Lisa.

But there's also, you know, even just like a my fair lady type story, this idea of like creating the perfect woman. And I just thought like, who's the perfect man? He can't talk. It was, in my mind, I'd had this idea for a teenage girl with an animated, reanimated corpse boyfriend idea for a long time. And then when the pandemic hit in 2020, right after the show would close down Broadway, obviously the entire world shuts down. It's a nightmare. We're in this like surreal, dark,

alternate timeline all of a sudden. And I just, the kids are home from school and I thought, I'd need to escape into something. So at night, I was writing this movie and I was able to channel kind of all my anxiety into it. And it's a very romantic movie, which was fun for me because I haven't really ever done anything like that. And I just, I love the movie. And it's a love letter to the 80s, which was like my era. And is that why you chose to maybe, to make it an 80s movie versus today? Like how did you think to do it a different era?

Well, having a teenager in my home, I see where most of their social interactions live and that is on their phones. And I just thought to myself, like, I miss the immediacy of my teen years where it was like, you'd meet up somewhere. You didn't really, you just had to trust that the other person was gonna be there. Yeah. And like- They'd just be like, meet you at the JCPenney's

where the bells are. Yes. And you just, yeah, and you had to find your own entertainment. I know I sound like the most grizzled Gen X part where it's like, we used to ride around in the bed of a pickup truck, which we did. Yes. But it's like, that's, to me, that's where, that's where my,

my deepest feelings of nostalgia live. So. Yeah. And you know, it was so funny cause I was watching, I made my son watch, uh, Fast Times, or Edgemont High. And we loved it. And when he started it, he goes, wait, really this many people wore jeans all at the same time? I just thought that was the funniest thing.

Because he's like, now everybody wears just like pajama pants. It is weird that kids don't really wear jeans anymore. They do. It's so- My son has nice jeans, but you're right. They want to wear those like soft joggers. Yeah. But it just, it was so funny.

But he liked- That was his takeaway. But he did like the movie. Yeah, I'm sure he did, especially a couplegers. Yeah. But it just, it was so funny. But he liked, he liked the movie. But he did like the movie. Yeah. I'm sure he did, especially a couple parts. Yeah. But this is great. I'm so happy. And when does a movie come out to be available for everybody to go see? It will be out on February 9th. Great. And in theaters. And the plan beyond that, I should know. I really have to get my details straight. But I really hope people go out and enjoy it. And it's like a great Valentine's Day movie. It's PG-13. So there's- I love that. It's available for many people to see, not for kids, but teenagers definitely. And yeah, I'm just

excited about it. I think it's going to be great. And I think it's like something you could go with your kids to, to- That's what I'm saying. That it. I think it's going to be great. And I think it's like something you could go with your kids to, to. That's what I'm saying. That's what I love. It's like, it's definitely, I love that the Gen X and the Gen Z, there's, there are so many fun things that, that you can enjoy together. And I like, definitely think this is a good one. So go to the movie theater, go to the fancy movie theater or sneak the candy in

your purse, whatever works for you. Just go see the movie. And where can they follow you on social media? I'm not on social media. Oh, you're a real, you're like a real person. You're like a real actual industry. I love it. Honestly, I'm just kind of, I'm kind of check and shed.

I can't deal with, but like, you're not missing anything. I'm not? No, I mean, I have to do it. Sometimes I wish I could take a break. I wish it would go away, but it is also really great for what I do. I really need it. But I feel like if you don't, you are not missing out. I do like I am on TikTok, but I don't post. If that's what I'm saying. I'm Diablo Cody on TikTok. So follow me if you want, but I'm not going to be posting anything.

Right. But you can look at it and everything, but there is something nice about not seeing all the immediate responses to something you do every day. No, it's scary. If you don't need to do it for your business, I say don't. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. So fun.

No, this was a blast. I really appreciate it. Oh, I loved it. Thanks. You know, you can tap into Casino right now at Botano, an award-winning online casino experience for the World 1500 Games. I loved it. Thanks.