Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Fake Boyfriends & Production Secrets: Former Housewives Producer Patrick McDonald Spills All!

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Former Real Housewives producer Patrick McDonald is back, and we are going deep into the wildest behind-the-scenes secrets of reality TV. First, we break down the alarming, now-deleted airport video posted by Milania Giudice showing her in a tense confrontation with Teresa, Gia, and local police, unpacking what really went down and the story behind it. We also get into advice for producers on what to do with Taylor Frankie Paul on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Then, Patrick faces my toughest questions about how production actually operates: do Real Housewives franchises in Potomac, Atlanta, and Salt Lake City really hire and pay fake boyfriends? We discuss why RHOSLC has become top-tier television, how producers assist housewives with restaurant storylines, what happens when a cast member gets demoted from diamond holder to "friend of," and how cast trips are secretly orchestrated. Plus, we spill the truth on the "Bethenny Clause" and my personal strategy for featuring a business on camera so Bravo can never edit your product out! -Right now, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you visit https://Nutrafol.com and enter promo code JUICYSCOOP  -Head to https://fromrebel.com to shop daily deals on top baby, home, and kitchen brands — save up to 70% off retail. -Find the fall pieces you’ll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to ⁠https://Quince.com⁠ Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/cw/juicyscoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopTZFUvAeokrJJ6dQ5wuAW1T3nssO6pHk47u7KymJUBtBgKCvfX⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dustin from Sacred Symbols here. Have you ever wondered what it actually feels like to have a better laptop like the Dell XPS powered by Intel Core? With its premium thin and light design, it feels smooth in your hands. The responsive touchscreen keeps things fast and precise for easy scrolling and swiping. And with long-lasting battery life, you get non-stop energy to keep working without constantly hunting for a charger. Built for those who want better.

The Dell XPS built for you. For 50 years, Canadians have wondered what the names of IKEA furniture mean. Like Natopa, the guardrail for children's beds. Natopa means giving your favorite person room to grow. It means their safety and your piece of... No. In Swedish, Natapa means night monkey. Mom, he's back.

IKEA, 50 years of Swedishness at home. Look, he's wearing little pajamas. So cute. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion-dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle.

We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg. Heather MacDonald has got the juices scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood Tales for real life, Mr. Sigmund Serial Data and Serial Sister, you'll be addicted and addicts it fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.

Listen in, listen up. Whoop, woo. Heather McDonald's. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have Return Favorite, fresh from his own now new hit podcast. I've got, we're not related yet. We have not figured it out. I'm Heather McDonald.

This is Patrick McDonald. Welcome back to Juicy Scoop. Rainbow Renegade. Renegade Rainbow. Sorry, Renegade Rainbow is the name of your podcast. Correct. Very fun name. I love it.

You know, in listening to one of your episodes, I forgot that you had gone on Bethany Frankel's show back when you broke away from being a Bravo producer and how many people were writing you really nice things and writing public things that you were great to work with. And were you on back when she was working on that reality reckoning? No, so I did I did her podcast after. It was like probably I think like a year maybe after that. Okay. Because it was after, yeah, after I had gone like public with like my exit from Bravo and everything that happened there. And I'd like talked a little bit about some just some of like the work culture and some of the stuff that kind of happens there. She had had me on.

And yeah, it was crazy. It was like I was in Thailand like on vacation and she had me on. And so like with the time zone, I like shot that at like two in the morning in Thailand. Yeah. It was like jungle hut. It was crazy. Did you think that the reality reckoning was ever going to be a big lawsuit windfall for any reality stars when it kind of began? Yeah.

I mean, it definitely got a lot of attention. And I think it kind of got like squashed, unfortunately, because of just like, you know, the news cycle and other things moving on, you know. But yeah, that's kind of unfortunate because there, you know, there are a lot of things that were brought to light during that time. I think that were important and some conversations that were started there that I think kind of have fallen aside. Well, I think that Leah McSweeney's case is still going. Yeah. From Real Housewives of New York. But I think hers was like really the only one.

Yeah. I feel like the Nini Leaks one was like settled or whatever, but she's good with them again because she's on the Real Housewives of Ultimate Girls. trip. Yeah. So I think everything's fine with that. But really. I think there's a few more. There's like some below deck stuff going on.

There's like. Oh yeah. There's a few more going. But the actual like thing that she, Bethany Frankel was like spearheading. Yeah. I think. Yeah. I think also I just think as audience members, you know, we like watching the show as general, as general people.

And so basically you're asking the only people that care about it are the, the viewers. And it's almost like if you, if you, like it's not something that we're going to march in the streets about because then our shows will be taken away. Even though we could all say, yeah, we do think they should, they should get, you know, residuals and health insurance and things like that. Yeah. But it's also like, it's not like you're like, what do you mean a a teacher doesn't have health insurance? You know what I mean? Like we, I think not we, but the audience still sees it as they have a great life. It's a glamorous life. They know what signed up for. So there wasn't really anyone, normal people, like, championing what they were going

after. And I think that's kind of why it's sort of fizzled or why attorneys dropped it or whatever. Yeah. I don't know. I think there was a pretty, there was a pretty, like, loud, like, group of people that kind of supported both sides of that, you know? Because I think one of the main parts about it was just calling for, like, better treatment of the people, like, in front of and behind the camera and like better protections, unionizing, just like making sure that everyone's like taking care of and is safe on set because there are a lot of times the reality shows are like the Wild Wild West. You're out filming things. Things go wrong. You're in the real world. And like there just needs to kind of be a little bit more checks and balances to make sure everyone is safe and everyone's protected physically, mentally. It's hard because it's not part of the SAG union. Right. So I think it was very valid. The reality recognition thing was very valid and still is today. I think that we're seeing that like case in point with like secret lives of Mormon wives. You're seeing how someone, I mean, look, reality television is like free basing fame. You know, it is a straight shot. It is a straight shot to fame. So you go from like being a normal person and in complete obscurity to like being at the top, number one on Hulu, on every like blog, every, like, magazine, all the things, you know, like a Taylor Frankie Paul. She's like her trajectory was like

skyrocket into fame. And so that is enough, that is like unbelievable pressure for anyone. And so if you're like already kind of struggling, you have all this religious trauma, you have sexual trauma, you have relationship trauma. I mean to be to be struggling with all those things, to be in your early 20s and to be catapulted into super, super stardom in terms of like, to the world is does something to someone's mental health that I don't think we are even as a society aware of yet. And I don't think that anybody can really know the long-term ramifications of what these reality shows are going to have on these people, especially these young girls, like 30, 40 years

from now. I mean, with the Taylor Frankie Paul, like, juggling the three men and her friends knowing it, because she's got the one, you know, she had the basketball. guy that's that we don't see. And because I'm about three or three or four, maybe three episodes in there in New York. Then we have her TikTok singing boyfriend who shows up at the hotel to, you know, have sex with her. And then she came home from the bachelorette that night and slept with her baby daddy. And in some ways, I'm like, you know, this girl could be the luckiest chick on earth and live in her life.

And it could be, you know, a sexual addiction. love addiction, it's whatever it is. But you see the other girls and some of them are just like, you know, they don't really approve of it, you know, and they are like a little, probably a little annoyed too that she's got, you know, three dicks to choose from. I don't know. But like, it's kind of, you know. I never thought of that. Maybe they could be jealous of that. But no, look, I think watching the Mormon wives, I, like I empathize so much with Taylor because I know how much pressure she's under to be the kind of like star of that show. But at the same time, I have so much empathy for the other girls who are kind of like

watching her spiral. And it's hard to watch because they clearly care about her and actually do show up for her and like love her. And she, you know, in her, when she's caught up in all of it, she doesn't see it. And then there'll be moments of clarity. Like she'll come down, you know. Taylor will come down and be like, look, I know I've reacted. sorry. And that's like the real her that they like and they connect with, I think. But I think the show

has become so amplified, like, and with the domestic violence and all of her personal things being so, so under a microscope. Like, I think what we're seeing here with Taylor, Frankie Paul is a spiral. Like, just like, she's like, enough. You know, like, she needs a break. Yeah, I don't know. Where did we end up? Because it was so confusing about all the people leaving and then is is the show coming back to film for a sixth season we don't know and we don't know who's the cast yeah i mean as the show is i think picked up for a six season um but we know macaela announced her departure soon after the fifth season came out citing you know taylor being her reason and then taylor a few days later announced that she was leaving the show okay

um which was kind of seemed like it was reactionary maybe to macaela's thing And then she was feuding with both Miranda and with Layla online. They both said, like, don't wait up for our call. Right, right. So you can see that they're clearly kind of like, they're kind of over it, you know. One of the things I saw someone bring up on social media, which I thought was interesting, is, and I don't know if this is true, but like, you know, I remember the Bravo women, the housewife women could get fined if they,

were fighting online or I don't know how they would judge if someone broke a social media rule or and then but on when you look at this so it's all social media you know and it doesn't it flows in and out it's different they talk about the show they say the guys just are want to be on the show and they all they care about is that you know and we're the stars get away guys and they talk about the show like that but what was the deal when in your bravo day? days about what were the rules for the social media for the housewives? Well, there's definitely rules of like you can't talk current story, you know? So if like, you know, you're getting into an argument with somebody or you're having beef

with somebody, you can't go home, you're not supposed to go home and like fire off on Twitter. Got it. About the current storyline. I mean, as we've seen that's happened many times. But and then they'll get reprimanded for that and then because, you know, they'll be like, look, this hurts the show. At the end of the day, when you're talking about, when you're revealing so much of the story of the season and it comes out beforehand, by the time the season comes around, like nobody cares about the show. So, right.

So like if a housewife gets in a fight with someone and then goes on Twitter that night while you guys are mid-filming and was like, you know, Suttons a bitch and you know, you're dead to me, girl or something. Yeah. Then everyone's like, what? Jennifer Tilly said what? Like that's so unlike her. But like something like that. And you're like, what? They're the closest ones, you know.

And I always wondered, you know. Well, look, it's a balance. A little bit is good. A little bit gets you excited. A little bit is good. It's a tease. It gets you going. But too much is too much. That's why I always thought it was interesting when I would hear from a housewife who really did get fined,

$500, $1,500, whatever. And then another one wouldn't. And I'm like, well, I just don't think it's like black and white. And probably someone who has more power won't get fined and someone that needs to stay in line. Someone that has more favor. Yeah. You know, it's more well-liked by the network. Yeah.

Yeah. But if there's someone they want to like keep in line, somebody probably like a Whitney Wild Rose or something. Right. Someone that's unpredictable saying kind of crazy things. I'm sure that they've reprimanded her for something like that. Yeah. But real quick on Taylor, though, like Taylor, Frankie Paul, I think like what we're seeing, like I said, is this, like a spiral that is a result of the fame, you know?

Definitely. Yeah. It's kind of crazy that we have documented the entire journey of her, I mean, remember, I mean, that body cam footage of her arrest. Okay, first of all, and I said this on my podcast, but there was a moment where Michaela was like, I don't know when our show turned from cute little Mormon wives to Jerry Springer on the street. I was like, honey, did you see the episode with the body cam footage that pulls up like. Well, that's how they start the first episode of like season. Well, no, of the very first part of the show. Is it the very first episode?

Yes. I think it is. it was too, but then I went back and watched it and I didn't think it was there, but I don't know. Whenever it was, it was early. But yeah, like, the show has always been kind of about that. So that kind of was funny to hear Michaela say that. But I also do understand what she means, though, of like, you know, of being frustrated with Taylor and wanting to work it through and how, like, the other girls are all, I think they're all really compelling too. You know, obviously Taylor, Frankie Paul is a star. Obviously, Whitney is a star. Whitney's also leaving the show. But I think that there is potential for like a Macy, you know, to emerge as a leader in the group.

I think they need to give the other girls a chance to like build some stronger, some stronger presence on the show. And I think they could do that by giving Taylor a season off. Like we don't have to depart ways she's leaving the show. Just give her a season off. And that means like no filming, no confessionals, no opening titles, no nothing. give her time off to like really heal, let the other girls build their presence, they become stronger,

throw a couple new girls in the mix, and then the following season, bring Taylor back. We have a big, the return of Taylor Frankie Paul, and it's a big, a big exciting moment, and she can be rested and,

but now, so let's say if you were working on that show, I would do. I totally agree, but I think the only way that it would work and for her to truly get better is she would also have to put away the phone.

Yeah, I agree. Put away the phone, and that's the thing like, would there be enough money? Like, I mean, if I was... She's got enough money to take a year off. Yeah, but also if I was the producers of it, I would be like, could we give her a chunk

to, like, an unconventional thing, but like, here's $500,000. You're not going to do this season. You're going to get mental health. You're going to... What a dream. You're not going to be on social media. And if you follow all that,

then you can come back the next year or whatever. Some, like, I would try to work some type of deal like that. But also. That warms my heart to hear. Like, seriously, that would be so lovely of them to do that. And would really send the message that, like, hey, we care about our talent. Right. This girl has built this titan of a franchise for us.

We're going to show the world that we really care about her. And we're going to, yes, pay her. let's pay her but give her the time off so she truly takes it you know I think that would be an incredible gesture I guess the other thing would be that when she's off of it for a year she's so healthy that she's like no I don't want to be

on reality to me anymore and they're like what? I'm healed I'm healed and I definitely don't want to get on the show again because that's what makes me go crazy you know what's so funny that you mentioned that though so like the housewives that like I always like really like loved deeply deeply cared for and grew to like love

as a friend you know I would always be like secretly hoping they would leave the show because I would be like, go live your life, go be happy. Yeah. Go be happy and be at peace because you're never going to find peace here. You know, you are never going to find. You need to know that going into those shows. You need to have a solid marriage unless you like don't care about your marriage

and you're fine with it dissipating like someone like I feel like kind of Tamara was her first marriage. Yeah. Fine with that ending. But like go get healthy. Be healthy. and like be clear-minded because it's it's hard and it will be it will be a complete strain on your life you know what I mean and you will not find true peace in this world you know what

when they like dump like a you know a one one season person yeah I'm always like actually they should be so flattered because it means that you're kind of boring because you probably are like mentally healthy and it just kind of isn't but you know that's what everyone gets so upset about if they get called boring. Right. Sometimes being like a little chill and not this crazy person, you know, sometimes you can be very healthy and funny and those are the housewives that like laughs and, you know, and they have hard times and they come back and they love doing it and they have fun doing it

and they're themselves the whole time. But, um. Yeah. Dustin from Sacred Symbols here. You know when you're in the middle of a heavy recording session, editing a show, or just trying to get real work done on the go and your laptop starts slowing down or burning up in your lap,

it's the worst. So, what does it actually feel like to switch over to a better laptop, like the Dell XPS powered by Intel Core? For starters, it's built with a premium design that's incredibly thin and light, so it feels smooth, meaning far less weight on your shoulders

when you're packing up for travel. Then you open it up, and the responsive touchscreen makes scrolling, zooming, and swiping feel completely fast and precise. Everything just flows. Best of all, with its long-lasting battery life, it feels like non-stop energy. You get a better way to work without being changed to a charger all day.

Built for those who want better. The DellXPS built for you. I'm Darmann, and this is what happens next. Each week on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a way to turn them into their greatest strengths. Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to the Emmys and I have police complaints filed against me. When your free will is about to be taken from you, what would you do if it was given back?

Where did that need come from where you thought that you had to succeed in order to feel loved? He said, I have a work dad. I need a home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he started crying. Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not those hard moments that they go through. It's about what happens next. decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.

Listen, Dar, I'm not going to pull punches. You can use your voice even if it's shaped. The stories are different, but the impact is the same. Only one question matters. What happens next? So I want to touch on this, because this was breaking news over the weekend. So Melania is Teresa Judeyce from Real House of New Jersey's daughter. And there was this quick video that she posted Melania, who's 20 and goes to college, where it was her mom. She's filming her mom and her sister Gia. And she's like, is that what we're going to do now? Is that what we're doing now? Okay, so we're doing this now. And you see like cops and it looks like they're in an airport. And she put it on her, posted it, and then shortly deleted it. But of course, people caught it.

And everyone was sort of speculating, what is this? Is she, are police arresting her? Is she going to a rehab? What happened? Now it's come out that they were at an airport and she like went missing or something and they were worried about her. So they called the police and they just wanted to get her on the plane to go home to New Jersey. And now this body cam footage has come out and you see Melania being like, what? I was laced with fentanyl. So she's like there was fentanyl in your, there were fentanyl in you. Teresa says to Melania and I'm trying to save your life

and she's like yeah because I was laced I'm like I don't think I know people that are like I was laced with fentanyl like usually you're slumped over or dead like it was very weird I don't know what's going on there

yeah I had no idea I literally just read the fentanyl thing as I'm sitting here I did not know that part I had seen the initial video of them at the airport of that the first one you said and it was just it was confusing

because it was her saying is this what we're doing now? And then Teresa's just like, I love you, I love you. Clearly, Teresa was trying to, like, maintain composure in the video. Like, her daughter is in distress. She's like, I love you. I don't know what you're doing. Clearly, you're trying to provoke.

She was trying to provoke them. It felt like. Right. And then Melani is like, that's what my mom wants. You wanted a scene, mom. Get over here, mom. Run, run. Like, she was being really awful.

And Teresa's being really calm. Yeah, she was being really calm. Yeah, she was being really calm. And it's, I don't know, like she's, there is thoughts or whatever that maybe she tried to hurt herself. Maybe she did like some type of 50-150. I don't know for a few days. Maybe she's back now in college doing fine. I don't know what's going on.

But I do know, I believe they're filming right now for New Jersey. I think they finished, didn't they? Oh, I don't know. Maybe they finished. And would any of this be addressed? But, you know, when you think about it, you know, these kids don't have a right to any of it. They put these mics on them when they're little and like, and the cameras in their face. And everyone thought it was so funny that Melania would talk to Joe Judeyce and be like, give me my pizza, you old troll.

And they just were like, Malania. Like she was just so crazy. And then Gia was like, you know, such a perfect little firstborn Italian daughter. like, you know, second mother to the girls taking over control. And I don't know. Like, have you ever worked on a show where the kids, like, didn't want to be on it and their parent or somebody was like, we really need to, we really need to film this? So, like, figure it out.

Well, I mean, I can't. I can't think of some, like, specifically someone's kids. But, I mean, there were many times where, I mean, kids do not like filming. You know, they're like, it's boring, you know, because you're. kids just want to play and live their life. So the weird hurdle when you're filming with kids usually is to get them to not be looking at and be interested by the cameras and the equipment and the crew. Because usually they're all like, because this is abnormal for the, you know, like, or if they're

new or something, they get used to it. But like, you know, you go into a new housewife's family and you start shooting with them and the kids are like the whole time they're just like looking right into the camera. Right, right. What are you doing? What's your name? And they're like, it's Patrick. Just hop back in there and talk to your mom.

Right, yeah. But yeah, so it's funny to see them try to figure it out. Yeah, look, you're right. They don't sign up for it. They're just kind of going along with whatever their parents are doing. And I think as they get older, and then you start to see, like, some of them like it and are drawn to the camera and some of them don't and retreat from it, you know. Right.

So it's just a case-by-case kind of basis. Like with the next-gen. Yeah. There was a thing I just saw that they're doing NextGen in LA with Heather Dubrow's son and Camille Grammer's daughter, Kyle's daughter. Somebody else. Like Leah Remini's daughter or something. Oh, really? Oh, that's kind of interesting.

I think she's joined one of them, yeah. Really, Leah Remedy's daughter? I think her daughter or son or something. Well, because Leah Remedy just joined Real House with Beverly Hill. So she might. She might. Her daughter could be that age now. But I always wonder, like, were there times where someone's like, oh, my God, just, they're coming over. We have to get this scene done. Just we're going to have the talk about how you got a speeding ticket. And as long as you knock it out, like, let's just get it. And then I'll give you $100 and you can go and go bowling with your friends. Like, I wonder if there's ever been moments like that that you might not be aware of, but parents probably have to do. I am sure there has been a bribe or two to come film a scene that's happened.

Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, come on. Look at our players here. You got the housewives, you know. If a housewife will pay a boyfriend to come play their boyfriend for a season, I think they'll pay their kid, you know, 20 bucks to say something nice on camera, you know. Let's bring us to our next subject that I had on my notes for Mr. Patrick, McDonald,

is the history of some housewives being accused or caught or denying it, whatever, of hiring a love interest that might not truly be real because they want to look like they got a man, they want to have something else to talk about this season. Right now, Heather Gaye on Real House of Salt Lake City says she's in love, she's got a boyfriend. and some people think it's not real, but then other people are like, it's probably real. He's just a player. So I'm like, that's not that. Of course he's a player.

Like, I mean, you know, when you get past a certain age and you meet someone, like everyone's got a history. Yeah. And there's going to be ex-girlfriends and ex-wives. They're just saying because he's got like a history of dating other people. That and just that they wondered if it was even real,

like if this was even a real relationship or did she know him from before? and they dated before and she was like just come on the show. Yeah. And we'll film some scenes. I don't know, but it so bugs me about Heather does this thing with her kids all the time with every time she's talking to them. She's like they're making brownies and she's like, oh, these aren't like the drug brownies you make at school or like, oh, like, oh, what are you doing this weekend? Well, oh, I'm having some sex with my boyfriend. Like, or you know what I mean?

Like, it's like, Jesus Christ, Mom, what do you? Like, okay, well, I'm going on a walk with my friend, you know? Like, it's just, have you not noticed that how she's. So that's self-produced. That's planning it out. That's coming up with lines before. Her trying to be a cool mom. It's very like Amy Poler and girls like being the being the cool mom, you know.

Yes. And it's just so like. You're right. It's so on the nose. I just wish Heather is like really turned into this like a caricature of of herself and of a housewife, you know. And you see it at the girls trip when she was like kind of like so drunk kind of. fawning and fan-girling over everyone. And, like, I don't know, she's just, and now in her individual scenes, it's just she's trying

to be the cool mom, she's trying to do this. And it's, it's, like, Heather just feels so performative where, like, at the beginning, I think what makes Salt Lake so great is because it felt so real and felt so raw and, like, different. And these women are, these women were different from any of the other women we've ever seen on Housewives. And they've got, like, this religious trauma aspect and, and, and religious. just shame that they were all grown like kind of raised with and how that shows up in their adult

lives. But I don't know. It's just Heather specifically, I feel like, has really just become one of those housewives that's like become a caricature of a housewife. Yeah. And I think that once that happens, it's like it's time to tap out, you know, because it doesn't, it becomes so much less interesting. Yeah. If something feels scripted and produced, like, great, look, I'll give it to her. the receipts proof timeline screenshots. That was an iconic moment. That landed. It hit.

But I also think that's what changed her. And then she's been trying to chase that high ever since. Like I have my flipping table moment. Right. And, you know, only a handful of housewives have those moments that really like kind of catapult them. And I think she thought that she was at that level with the receipts timeline and was like, I'm a really big deal.

And, you know, which is fine. Like you are. You're on a show. You had a spinoff thing about your documentary. You've written some books. Like good for you. Like you are your your beauty lab was there. You have a second one. Like all of that is true. It's successful. It's like, yeah. She is successful. It's like, calm down and be just be chill. Yeah. I think it's kind of hard to like, yeah, how to navigate that. Is that, you know, in your experience, is it weird when you see such a dramatic change? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. It's wild. It's wild when you see like, a first season housewife come in and then you see them by like like coming into season three like their third season or something yeah just how much changes physically um how much changes just like in the way that they move within the group how much changes within the way they move in public it's it's fascinating you know and and it's it's uh yeah it's like in a watching this like I don't know, the rise of a phoenix or something, like, you know, or like a Pokemon evolving

into like its top form, you know. Right. I mean, I can see why that would be, you know, I've talked about a lot on the show of like how that would be when you never really were an actor, you never really were on stage. And then all of a sudden, there's people, you know, with a heavy camera on their shoulder in the heat hanging on your every word. Yeah. And, you know, because I used to be like.

Like whenever I was filming anything and it was somewhat improvisational, I would be like, oh my God, let me give all the funny. Let's get like, I don't want this guy being bored and I don't want his time being wasted. So it's like as a comedian, like that's what I would think. And so I'm like, what with them, you know, I do think sometimes it's boring. But then other times I want to know like, when do you guys as a producer decide like, yeah, we can wrap it up here. We got it. How do you know when you got it when you don't? Okay, well, that's the thing. So, you know, when you go to a scene, like usually, okay, there's usually, there's at least two crews on every housewife show. Some shows have three, depending on the budget. So like a Beverly Hills is a three crew show.

Vanderpump Rules is a three crew show. Meaning one whole crew just stays together. So there's like A crew, B crew, C crew. And on that crew, on each crew, there is a producer. Okay. Like a field producer, the head producer, the lead of the team. So there's that producer. Then there's like a six. segment producer who's like booking locations and who's kind of dealing with like the venues. They're going to like go find the manager of the restaurant and be like, hey, they're going to be your point of contact. Because like what I would be doing is be like kind of I would talk to the manager, but they would manage them, you know.

And so they're dealing with the location. Then you have like an associate producer, right? And that person's taking notes, logging the, logging the scene and all that. And then you have the crew, which is two cameramen, one audio mixer or, audio supervisor. You have an AC, which is the assistant camera person who's helping out, like, the cameras and like, you know, just kind of helping out. And then like a PA.

So there's like seven to eight people on your crew. And so. When do you know, like, we can wrap it up here? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you got your crew, right? And you get to a scene and like your day is scheduled. You usually have two scenes, you know, if it's a regular day.

So you'll have a scene in the morning and a scene in the afternoon or like scene in the evening, whatever. And those scenes are usually scheduled for like about three hours of shooting. Okay. For a normal, regular scene. Now, you don't always need that, you know? So some people, well, some showrunners are like, you got to shoot the whole three hours, like, shoot the whole time. Some are like, will give you more personal, you know, judgment of like, if you get the scene, if you got it, you got it, you know. I was like a personal, like, I did not overshoot. Like if I got the scene, like, we're wrapping up.

Let's get out of here. Yeah. You know, but I know, I would know what the scene was and I know if we got it or not. There would be times when you're like an hour and a half in, you're like, I'd be like, okay. I'd walk in and be like, okay, ladies, we're an hour and a half in here and we have not gotten anywhere. The main meat of this before we leave here is we need to set up your party this weekend. Are you going to invite Teddy? Are you going to make up with Erica before the party?

and for you, what's going on with you and Sutton? Are you guys moving forward? Have you, like, we haven't gotten anything there. So we have about 30 more minutes here. I need us to get to this, you know? And so let's like get to it, you know? And so then you'll come in and you'll kind of rain it in. Because sometimes they can go off the rains, you know?

And you let that happen for a little bit because you get good stuff there. You know, sometimes if they're just randomly talking. Sometimes it's boring as hell. And you're like, okay, I'm falling asleep. Please let's get back on topic here. Yeah. So yeah, you can step in all the time. And then so it's just up to the producer's discretion.

And then sometimes it's just you have a two hour window to film here. That's their only availability. And so you got to be, you got to get what you can get. One of the things I've always wondered is why do I have to hear what everybody ordered? Like, why do we have to? That is such a weird Bravo thing that they like, it's a must have. It's a must have every time someone orders, like, you must include that in the footage. Like, you let's shoot that.

Someone brought up, like, does the Real House of the O.C have like a deal with like 100% beef or something? Because I've noticed that too, that every, lately, all the girls are ordering like steak and fries or hamburger and fries. Like, and they all, that and Diet Coke. And I guess it's just about the protein when you're on the shot. I don't know what it is. But I'm just like, oh, wow. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't noticed.

Yeah. And then I would think. Especially with the, with the beef crisis going on. Yeah. And like, it's a weird time to be ordering. But I also think like, um,

I mean, I love to go to restaurants and eat, especially when I'm not paying because you're filming, right? And I just think like, it would be hard to resist not to eat the whole time. Oh my God. If I would go hungry.

But I mean, you know, there, there was, there was some people who would, uh, like what you just said would, started, would abuse the, would abuse the meals. The comp deal, the comp meal.

People started ordering at the end of the meal to go. Can I get this, this and this to go? Like three more meals to go. And they would like take it home to their kids. I won't say, I won't say who did that. But they got, they got reprimanded and they were like, you cannot do this. And then they started putting a cap on on dinners. Yeah. Because they're like, yo, y'all are getting crazy for this lunch. And then like bringing home food for your family. So what would be the cap? like okay it would depend on where you are

like for I think I think in Atlanta it was like 250 okay on like a lunch or dinner meal you know

right if it's like a if it's like a two person scene right you know obviously a big bigger bigger meal is different you know yeah

and there would be a little more loosey goosey on the all cast kind of things but like for a for a two person meal scene there there's definitely like a limit and then there was what's also

so fucked up is that they would like be like tip limits they wouldn't like let them tip uh too much right you know what i mean the pa so the pa's i would be like dude we're doing all this like you need to tip we got to tip well right you know what i mean um but they would be oh they would always be trying to skimp on the tips i was like you guys we got a you got a tip good for these places that we're going you know and then is it ever a problem because it also like looks bad for because like the housewives aren't paying you know what i mean right but like the servers i mean they don't necessarily know that because I would, what I would do is a lot of times I would slip a housewife of P-card, be like, here.

I was like, I'd be like, who's paying ladies? Yeah. And they'd be like, oh, you know, Marlowe's paying. You give Marlowe the card or, oh, like, candy's paying. You give candy the P-card, you know. And so they would throw it down, you know, and then like. Okay, so when they're at a restaurant and there's real people that are eating there that did not know that there was going to be filming that day.

And let's say they're fans and they're kind of excited. Is it ever a problem? Like, do they ever try to come up to them? 100, yes. And how do you handle all that? You got to have like, well, you got to have a PA. You have people kind of guarding the, like, the area. Yeah.

So like, they're not going to make it to the table to be right next to them. Usually. I mean, maybe they might. But like, you know, it depends on the situation. But so every single person in that restaurant, by the way, has to have an appearance release. So it's actually a lot more involved. like then you would think when you're at a restaurant. So like a PA has to go around to every single table and be like,

hi, if you, like if they're on camera. Yeah. And be like if they're even seen in the background at all. They go, hi, you know, we're filming Real Housewives of Atlanta. You know, do you guys mind signing a appearance release if you might be used in the show? And usually people are fine and they're excited to do it. I wonder if there's everybody that's like no because they're like having an affair or something. Yeah, people say no.

People will say no. Because if what if you're like not supposed to be having dinner with someone, you know, that you should not be seen with. Well, that's true. I never, I didn't, like an affair. Yeah. I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure that's happening. And when they say no, do you ask to have them moved?

Yeah. So you'd be like, you'd be like, okay, that's totally fine. We would ask if you don't mind if we like just move you to a shot where you're, if you don't want to be seen, let's move you somewhere where you're not going to be in the shot. Because otherwise you're going to be a real ugly blur in my, in my shot, you know, and I don't want that. And sometimes I would say that, you know what I mean? It would kind of like cut up with them.

And they'd be like, okay, fine. And, you know, it's just about like people skills. And usually that's the person usually doing that is like a PA or the segment producer if they really need to step in and someone's problematic. But then if like someone's really having an issue, which has happened. Yeah. Then I would go over there and talk to the person and try to do some, you know, damage control or whatever. But and then you'll also have like unruly people who are like drunk and are trying to come in to break the scene or stuff like that. And that's when you have to get a little more, you know.

Right. Like, get the fuck out of here. Right. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. So are you liking Salt Lake this season?

I mean, the first episode was very sad about Mary's son. I love Salt Lake. I'm so excited at Salt Lake's back. I think it's... I find them all very. entertaining. Salt Lake City is the best franchise right now. I think it is taking the reins as the strongest franchise for sure. And I think that that's very indicative in the in the fan base, too, in the audience. Everybody's hyped about Salt Lake. And I think they're hyped about Salt Lake in a way

that they haven't been hyped about the other shows in a while because it's firing on all cylinders and the girls are giving it. And they're funny. I think there's a lot of funny. There's a lot of humor, which is really important in these shows. Like when Whitney kind of did her Meredith face, when she's like, I'm scared of Meredith. And I don't want her to be like, and she did that. Like, I thought that was like very funny. You know what? You're right.

I actually, I have, I kind of have like come and gone on Whitney. Coming into this season, I was kind of like, I'm kind of good on Whitney, to be honest with you. But then she said that comment about, um, she's like, Meredith's face looks so good in her wig. And they're like, I don't think she revealed the wig. And like, sorry, I was like, all right, maybe she can say. Yeah, I mean, they all have interesting lives. They do. That's what's working.

There isn't like a dud in the bunch. There isn't a dud in the bunch. Yeah. For me, I would say the two weakest links at this point are Heather and Whitney, bad weather. But that being said, even though they're the weakest two on this cast, I don't think they're anywhere near like weak. characters as as we see on some of the other shows. Heather, I just... What do you think was the black guy? Jen.

You do think it was Jen. Of course. She said it was. No, she didn't. I finally, like, got her book and, like, you still just in the book said, like, I still don't know what happened. Like, I woke up with a black guy. I think she got wasted and fell.

No, the book was written before that she eventually said it, right? Oh. The second book, which was weird because she didn't promote it, I, like, went and found the part and it still just said, I don't know. Who cares? What I will say, though, is that she should have been fired for that. Because when she implied that it could have been a production member that gave her the black guy, that was like a hard line for me. That she really lost me with that. I thought that she, I interpreted it more as like when I was trying to figure out. I was like, did she fall or something and something was unsafe in the Airbnb that production rented? And

therefore there was like a weird thing that could have been production i don't know oh i interpreted i could have been production like i fell while filming or something i know but you come on you like have worked in television and all that stuff like you know all the people that work that bust their ass to make these shows and you're going to jeopardize yeah like even even imply that any of those people could have been involved when they make such like a fraction of the money you make they work 20 million times harder than you do. Yeah. And they're like vulnerable and they're working.

They need these jobs and like, I don't know. That was so gross to me and I don't think it was ever truly like addressed and rectified it in a way that was satisfying to me. And if I was if I was a producer or a crew member on that show, I would not fucking trust that woman. I think. I would not ever want to be alone with her. You know what I mean? Because she could say anything, you know. You can't trust a person like that.

I think that they were both wasted. I think she could have like fallen out of bed or something happened and she just, like, you have a party wound and you're kind of like, how did I get this big bruise on the side of my leg or something? I think it was something like that. And then knowing with the dramatic thing, I'm taking the glasses off, I'm going to reveal this. And even Jen kind of played along like, did I do this? But then Jen was like, better not say that I did it. Like I thought when you're talking about like kind of producing yourself, I think that whole thing. I think she saw that she had a black guy

and was like, I'm going to make something out of this. Yeah. And then... Well, if she did, it made everyone just dislike her. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I love the Lisa Barlow. I think that they are jealous of her. They're definitely jealous of her.

And I just think she's a good time. She is good. Look, Lisa is an incredible character. You know, she'll do things that, like, piss you off. And I've said this. Like, I've... At the beginning, I loved Lisa. and then somewhere along the way, she really lost me, you know, and I was like, God, this woman's

terrible. And then, like, the next season she'll win me over again. I'm like, I love her. Yeah. But that, but that's good, you know, because that's somebody who's not afraid to look bad. Right. Even though she acts like she's like, I won't look bad. I need my glam, you know what I mean? But, like, she's willing to look bad. And, like, that makes for an intriguing, interesting housewife, you know? Speaking of the glam. Some people that are fans of housewives felt like that's kind of when the show lost its authenticity, when everybody would hire glam to go to a barbecue. Yeah.

And it's one thing to do glam because it's someone's, it's the finale party and it's, you know, a gorgeous thing and it's a black tie event. There's another where they all do it. And I get it. It's TV. Everybody else is doing it. And if you're not going to do your own makeup, you don't want to be the one that doesn't have a contraud nose, you know. And you don't want to be the one that's asked the question, did you do your own makeup?

Yeah. So do you think that that has, I mean, it's always that's okay. They FaceTime each other. They have the pins in their hair. But they have to pay for that, right? Oh, yeah. So the show only pays for glam on interview days for confessionals. So when the women are doing their confessional, the show plays for their glam.

When, if it's any other thing, it's up to them, you know. I mean, that is a huge expense. If their glam is on trips, they're paying for that glam to come on that trip. Wow. You know, and so that's, we're talking hotel room. We're talking, you know, their rate, their day rate for their make for their glam or hair or whatever. I mean, they're watching and food while they're there.

And then with the parties that they throw. So let's say I'm a housewife and we go through the calendar and I go, I'm going to have a birthday party for myself. Well, now that I'm on TV. I want that birthday party to be super fabulous, right? Because I'm supposed to be this fabulous housewife. Right. Maybe I can get some free liquor or a catering thing, but then I would have to like work that

myself. And if I'm not a huge housewife star, I probably don't have a PR team yet. You can help get that. So let's say the party really is like 15 grand. Is that 100% out of the pocket of the housewife? Case by case. Oh. Case by case.

So there will be most of the time, yes. If there's something special that they really want to slap and like make a big moment out of, the show will be like, look, we'll put in 5K, you put in 5K, we'll put it in 10K, you put in 10K, you know. But then the housewife is still the one that has to plan it, get the caterer, get the decorating, get the party planner. Look, if it's something, if it's like a wedding, a 40th birthday, a 10-year anniversary, these are things that they were going to have anyway, you know? Yeah.

And so, yes, of course, they amplified them for the show. and they spend a lot more money on them because it's being filmed. Right. But, you know, the show's not like, oh, yeah, we're going to pay for your 20th anniversary party. You know, like, we're going to film your 20th anniversary party. What a great way to do that, you know. Sometimes I've interviewed housewives and they revealed that like, and they never showed any

of my charity work or they never showed my business. They wouldn't allow me to talk about, like when we talked about, you know, Crystal. When Crystal came on my show, Crystal from Beverly Hills, I didn't know that she had this coconut water company that she'd had for a long time. That was a huge deal. Well, yeah. So there's also, you know, there's the Bethany Frankel clause. And is that real? That is real. Yeah. What is it? Explain it. It's like a percentage. If they're going to let you promote your show. Your product. If they're going to let you promote your product on the show, they want something. You know, they want a percentage of that. But I kind of feel like it's one of those things that's like royalties off a book. Like it's really hard.

It gets crazy. No, they get crazy because there have been reality shows where there have been like only fans creators, for example. Okay. Who have established only fans, right? And they're going into a reality show. And the people are like, oh, well, you know, you're going to be amplified by the exposure of this reality show. It's going to make a lot of money on your only fans. So we would like a cut of your only fans.

I know someone that that happened to So And it was like a major Because I feel like an only friend's thing It's such like a personal thing Exactly, it's a personal thing Just like a podcast or something like that I get it if I'm launching lemonade

Right And I've never had lemonade before And I've never had lemonade before So they're making like A shitload of money off of every year And they're like fuck no you're not getting a piece of that So did they've been doing that They didn't even end up doing the show

Because they were like We're not doing that Yeah it's too much Yeah. That's crazy because I understand why that would make sense with Skinny Girl and why maybe going forward, someone's like, hey, if you launch a product on the show. Yeah. I mean, sure, it makes sense, but they want like way too much. So you'll have people who will hold back on promoting their thing. And then sometimes like the Bravo will just say no. You know, they won't they won't promote that, you know? So what if I, okay, so I'm not launching a lemonade, okay? I'm a housewife, just hypothetical. And I'm like, well, I'm having this party. And it's my lemonade party. And at this party, I'm going to fucking tell my co-housewife off.

I'm going to tell her that I know that she cheated with a pool boy. So this is going to be an eye as a calculating, you know, self-producing housewife, I decide I'm going to save that fucking juicy action for my lemonade party so that they can't cut it out. and we will have to see, and I'm going to even have the fight in front of Heather's Lemonade or whatever. Do you think anyone's ever been that calculating?

Because I think that's pretty smart. I think that's what you should do. That is smart. And people, yes, people do stuff like that. Yeah, like if you're good, because otherwise, if nothing happens at the party, and you also spent $20,000 of your own money. Oh, yeah, you better make sure something interesting happens at that expensive party.

They might cut it out of the thing because also they don't want to promote your other. side gig. So it's like you almost got to make the fight, the tears with the husband, something happen. Right in front of your product of thing. Yes, exactly. Well, no, okay, so there's like, look. Same with like wearing birch, you know, I've got my shirt on, like wearing the agency hat every time he came to film. He had that agency hat on. Like, that is smart, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was a, there was a housewife. So we would do, um, there's times when like, you'll be at the beginning of a season, right? And

they're in casting and we're talking to a few different ladies as housewives to be potential housewives and you'll come in and someone will come in for like a test test shoot you know you'll do a scene um and we had a lady test for Atlanta and um went into I didn't shoot this scene but one of my closest friends another producer she did and she's like we went in there to shoot this scene of her family like in her kitchen right and this woman had a problem product line. And the entire kitchen counter was like QVC of all of the products of her like, I don't even know. It was like maybe some vitamins and stuff, whatever, supplements, some kind of thing. But they were everywhere. And like throughout the scene, she kept like going to get them and like

opening it and pouring it in like, uh-huh, like talking to her daughter and like did it. And they're like, babe, no. We're not doing that. Definitely. If you're going to write a book on how to be a housewife. Yeah. If you're having how to be on housewife, don't. bring up your products. Don't bring up that you're a boss babe. Right. That you're looking to, you know, become your, yeah, become your own, you know, entrepreneurial thing. But yeah, that is definitely a thing. And, and that was born from, from Bethany, you know, like, we don't want someone coming on the show. Now making all this money, we want a piece of that. So, yeah, if they're going to, if they're going to promote it on there, there's definitely

some kind of, some kind of thing worked out with the product. I mean, I don't, I don't. think it's pretty hard to launch something else. Like if you release a Vanderpump and you already have the restaurants, totally great. But when you think about, you know, like a Vicki Gunvelson, besides podcasts and things like that,

or maybe a one-time book, like she had the Vicky vodka, she had the Vicky Diamond, she had the wine by wives. The thing that's still standing is insurance. Never heard of any of those things. Yeah, because it never,

like, and then, you know, other tried to do different things. And I, it's like, I commend them to do it. I mean, like, some had success. So, like, you know, there's... I also feel they're so susceptible, though, to, like, a grifter guy. Yeah.

Or a woman coming in being like, we're at a white label, a skincare line. Isn't that what happened with Whitney, Wild Rose? Yeah. I don't know what's going. Well, they was accused of being some kind of Ponzi scheme or something. Well, it was supposed to be, it wasn't going to be an MLM and then it was. And she's like, I thought I was going to be in Sephora and Alta. But there's been other housewives in the past where they're just like, we're just going to put your name on like a skin care and then they'll have the party and all that stuff and then

if it doesn't really like gives everyone crazy yeah like and over doesn't nope i mean people aren't necessarily selling it you know buying it because it's like taylor armstrong's in the lab conforming this new facial lotion serum i always just imagine the housewife that's like first season and then gets a email that's like i'd you have such great skin we'd like to talk about form your own skin care company. And you're like, okay, you're not a dermatologist. You have no idea how to do skin. You're not a makeup artist.

And then you just get with some weird woman that you don't know. And now you're involved in this business. Yeah. And now you've, you know, and they encourage you to put like $100,000 into it. Now you've made $2 off of Housewives because you spent it on your glam team and the party for the Heather's lemonade. And the lemonade never sold. And now you're like, oh, you're like, fuck. And then all the other women are talking about what a lose.

you are and how the lemonade tastes like shit. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the other thing. They all will say like, ugh, this food is awful or this lemonade is awful. Well, yeah, then you'll, you know, you do all that buildup to promote your product. And then it just takes, like, one snide comment from the Housewives that hates you to, like, sink your whole entire business. But it's like with Shamiya on Housewives of Atlanta this year, she was working on like a rum, a rum deal, right? Oh, rum, that's kind of good.

Yeah, I know. You know, and she's got this big butt now. And so they she was like rum bum. She was like in the bottle was going to be in the shape of a butt. But then like the people she was working with, they were like, we don't make rum or something. Or like we make tequila or whiskey. I forget what happened. So the thing ended up being like, anyway, the whole thing fell apart.

And so it was like not not it, you know. Right. But she still had the party though of like, because that was her plan like all cast event was her rum bum party or whatever. And. Well, like the Kenya Moore. As the product party, but they're like, when is the rum coming out? And they're like, well, we're not sure. Actually, it's not.

Yeah. And it never was. And then at the end of the season, it was like, the rum fell through. I mean, that's the one thing. It's like they're always, they're on the show and they're like, well, here's my big opportunity to like finally be a boss bitch or whatever. And then if it doesn't work out, all the other women are really snarky and like mocking them and kind of unsupportive.

It's like. Yeah, it's brutal. I would say don't fall into these grifters that knock on your door that want to try to do some weird product with you. Just be yourself. Be likable enough. And then you can stay on the show and have some fun and make some money just by endorsing a bunch of other products as an influencer. That's what it should be. Yeah.

You don't have to get in there and like, you know, have something your first season to showcase and show. I think that is a mistake that a lot of housewives make. they come in their first season trying to do everything. They're trying to do a product. They're trying to do a song. They're trying to do all the tropes. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, just kind of go in there, be yourself and really work on, like,

if I was giving an advice to a new housewife. Yeah. Like your first season, I think your biggest priority should be building relationships. Go in there and like genuinely try to build relationships with people. Don't go in and try to like see who you're going to fight with. Don't going to try to see who you're going to spar with. Who you're going to take down. Right.

Like genuinely go in with the idea of like, I want to make friends here and I want to like build some genuine relationships. When you do that, that's what's going to lead to like good stuff down the line. Yeah. And that's what's good because it's going to be authentic. It's going to be based in reality, you know? Totally. And so that's what I think so many people forget and lose sight of. And I think also like there was a, in Atlanta, there was Kenya and somebody.

And she like called her out on it. She's like, okay, you're like. coming after me because I'm the queen and this is your first season and it seems so comes out of nowhere. Like when a new person attacks an older cast member. And it comes, it feels like, wait, what's the basis of it? What beef do you have? This is so weird. Did I miss an episode? You're like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Oh, that chick just wanted to have her moment. Yeah. And then when the more experienced housewife kind of calls them out on it, slightly breaking the fourth wall, like, we know what you're doing here.

Yeah, I think you're talking about with Kenya and Britt from last season. Yeah, there was something. From season 16 when she was like, okay, you want to have your moment, have it. You know, like, can you was like have your moment? And she was like, oh, you want to have your moment. And she was like, oh, no, honey, I am the moment. She like didn't even really have to say anything. When we were talking about fake boyfriends before, what was your opinion of the whole

controversy over the beautiful Stacey from Potomac? She was getting a divorce and then she had this boyfriend. A QVC queen. That she worked at QVC and this guy also worked at QVC. And they on camera and they just had a heterosexual love affair, you know, and some people questioned it. And then he basically. An asexual love affair. I know.

Yeah, that's what I was joking saying heterosexual. Okay, whatever. And I guess he told some people and it got back to the house, the other housewives, that it was not real. and she was actually like paying him on the side. Well, it got back to them because he called Wendy's husband while they were at the reunion and revealed that Stacey had offered him 50% of her housewives paycheck, of her first season paycheck to do that. Allegedly. This is what they, and this is all to discuss on the reunion.

Look, Stacy, I think Stacy has been, wow, what an enigma in the Housewives universe. what a unique, interesting, like one-of-a-kind character we've never had. When she first came on her first season, that season with TJ, I was like, what? This girl is, this is not going to work. Like, this girl's like QVC in all of these scenes. Like, so, hello, how are you? I'm like, this isn't going to work, you know? But I'll be damned if it does.

Like halfway through that season, I was like, oh, this girl's like, she's great. because she has the audacity to be utterly ridiculous, you know. So do you think other people, though, have paid or had a side deal? Yeah. I do think she did that. And but, you know, I respect her commitment to the, to the lie. Yeah, she was just like, it's not true. She will go to the grave with that, you know.

Yeah. And I can respect that. I think that's like, look, she committed to it. She's like, it failed. I'm committing to my story. and I'm going to keep a trucking. And people like her, you know? People like her because, A, she's driving the other ones.

Like, Jezell can't stand her, you know. I thought Jazelle had a fake boyfriend. Remember when Jazeel was dating some really cute guy from Winterhouse? Oh my God, I know him. Jason. Yeah. That wasn't fake. That wasn't fake?

No, they were just like, it was like a fun little moment. Okay. You know? No, yeah. So he was on Winter House. Right. And I, which I did Winter House. Super nice guy.

Great guy. And I was so excited that they... So they had a full boning flame. Yeah, they were like, they were going and hanging out and seeing each other and stuff. Look, I think she... I just thought, as a viewer,

I thought, you know, she was like, come on the show. We'll keep you a little relevant. You'll come on your off season. No, I mean, I think they were hanging out. I don't think that they were like a super serious thing. Yeah. I think they were hanging out and he was also like already in reality TV.

So I was like, why not? Yeah. Like, why not, you know? Remember, didn't Kenya have like some UPS man or something? that she and they accused and the girls accused her of not being role thing. Kenya had been accused

definitely of. No, did he work for UPS? He had like some normal job, that guy. He wasn't particularly cute and it was like this whole storyline where, you know, are we to get married or not? It's before she had her daughter. Yeah.

And they were like, this is, they accused her of this whole thing not being real. Yeah. And I just wonder like, you know, if. That was like the first one. That was the first one. That was the first.

case of this kind of i feel like in housewives where where someone was accused of that right yeah and and it's been a it's been a familiar trope throughout because look the these women are under a lot of pressure to deliver you know so when you're coming in uh to contract negotiations again you know it's like oh we're looking ahead the next season we're we're having they start having calls with everybody like oh what does next season look like what does your story look like next year what have you got going on. What's been happening since we wrapped, you know? And you start to talk about that. And if, you know, you're like, well, my kids are all gone and they're gone. Last week, I, I played tennis once. So, shit, what am I doing? You know? So, like, you got to come up with something. And so I understand that, that, that, that, the fire that's lit under them to be like, oh, I guess I got to start fucking dating somebody. And they will point my

Will a producer ever give them some ideas, like on the side? Absolutely. Like you're my friend, you know, and you would be like to meet, Heather, as your friend and your producer, here's like three ideas you could get going. Okay? You know, if it's not a new boyfriend, it could be, can you remodel something in your house? Like, what are some of the things that you would suggest that someone do if they've gotten literally nothing's changed for two years straight in their boring ass life? Well, I think the first thing go to is like, is there a traumatic experience that you've been through that you haven't talked about yet? Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Is there some story that you have never told anywhere?

Story that you about something that you have overcome, something that was challenging for you, something that was tragic. Yeah. Anything. Do you have a trauma? Yeah. Is there a traumatic story you haven't revealed on camera yet? Let's do that. You know, and then it'll be like, oh, then we'll process that all season. We'll go to. We'll go to. The third, but all season will be in therapy about that traumatic events that happened seven years ago or whatever it is. But, you know, like, yeah, you'll, you'll come up and come up with something like that. And then we'll be like, oh, that's the one thing I really don't want to talk about. They're like, well, what else you got? I feel like that with OC last season, Heather DeBrow shared like about her father who passed. But like, whatever their relationship was, and they go to Amsterdam and stuff.

And then this season, she, like, accused Tamara of, like, talking about her dad. And Tamara was like, you made that your story last year. Like, you brought it up. And I did think it was kind of interesting. Like, when you've been on for that many years. Yeah, she's like, shit, did I? And you're like, yeah, you know, I can see it when someone's like, I, you know, had a depressive thing where I wanted to end my life. And that happened when I was 21.

And now I'm 50. I'm going to talk about it or whatever. And look, that's great. If it's something that was traumatic that you overcame and that can help other people, I think that's actually great, you know, and I think you should talk about it. And that's something I would always tell people, like, sometimes the thing that you don't want to talk about the most is the thing that, A, people are going to want to hear about you, hear from you the most,

but also the thing that's going to make people connect to you the most because people connect to hardship and things that you've, like, been through, like, oh, my God, I've been through that, too. And they see themselves in you. So when you tell a story that's, like, traumatic, and something that was scarier that you overcome. It makes you human, you know, and like it makes you relatable. And that's why that is a go-to in those moments where it's like, look, honey, you got nothing else.

You need to open up. We need to see a part of you that we haven't seen before, you know? Yeah. And so that's like a peeling of the layer of the onion, a revelation of something deeper that's kind of getting to, you know, a deeper level of who this person is. So I think it is a functional tool when someone may not have a level. lot going on. Look, we all have like quiet years where, you know, maybe, maybe you didn't date anybody and maybe, maybe you didn't have like the big exciting thing happening in your career.

And no one died. And yeah, it's like, it's just a quiet year, you know, that's human. And so when someone's having a quiet year and but they want to stay on the show. Yeah. I mean, what do they do? Do they plan? Are they then remodel a house? Yeah. Or think about where the trip is. Like, how do you guys come up where the trip should be? And who should be in charge of it? Well, the trips are all like done with tradeouts. You know what I mean? So there's deals being done. And that's like there's the segment producers have a lot to do with that.

And then if the show has a bigger budget, sometimes there's actual like a tradeout producer and like who's like specifically working on cash trips. And so you're reaching out to resorts. You're reaching out to different places, tourism boards and like seeing what kind of deals we can work out, what kind of tradeouts. And then, you know, seeing what kind of comps you can get for the, not only the. cast, but the whole crew to stay at some resort while you go and shoot. Okay, so let's say find a great resort in Cabo. Yeah. And now, so then you look at the cast of, you know, the seven girls. Yeah.

And then you're like, okay, who could say, let's go to Cabo because that's where I got married. Yes. Because I'm going to build a house there. Yeah. And so, well, I mean, Cabo would be. That's not a good example. Yeah. Let's say, let's say, it's Jamaica. Yeah. So, yeah, like, like Jamaica we went to in Atlanta like obviously Sonia was like that's where her whole family was from you know so that's obviously going to be Sonia's trip and she hosts that trip she has a personal

personal connection now sometimes a trip is selected for that like which was that like we we sought out Jamaica because Sonia was from there right and so like her family is from there you know and so we went and like they pursued tradeouts there and like resorts there and stuff like that.

Right. But then sometimes it's just like we're we're having general conversations with different resorts and different things. It's like, oh, well, this place in Hawaii has offered a like 60% tradeout on 300 rooms for us and like meos, blah, blah, like whatever the deal is. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, so that's pretty attractive. Like, all right, well, I guess we're going to Hawaii.

Who the hell in the cast has got some reason to go there, you know? So we'll like come up with something, you know. And then that's how it's, so it's narrowed down. But then it also, a lot goes into the decision of who leads the trip. Because it also has to be typically someone who's in a good enough place with the majority of the group, that it would make logical sense for them to invite all these people on a trip. Now, sometimes you have such a fracture group where it's like, there's not a single person who's good with everybody. And so you're like, why would they be inviting this person?

on a international trip when they just told them to like eat shit and die, but they have to come. So then when that does happen, because there's been a few occasions that I've watched, where this person, I'm in charge of the trip, and I'm like, no, this person is not going. Because I don't like that person. And then that one is really annoyed because maybe they're not a regular housewife and therefore they get paid per day, like they're a friend of. And they don't get to go on the trip. So now they're missing out on nine days of pay and several episodes.

Yeah. And so the real, that's where I'm like the anger of you fucked me on my money and being on the show versus if this was real life and you just didn't include me in a free trip, which in real life, women aren't inviting friends on free trips. Yeah. This doesn't happen, you know. Right. I mean, I know one group of people in real life that do this, but they're very wealthy and they're the only ones. Like most people, it's like maybe someone organizes it, but everyone's paying for their own hotels, you know? Yeah. And also, I never want to see another housewife get mad at the host of the trip about their accommodations.

Because they'd had nothing to fucking do with those accommodations. Like when they, when Shemilla and Kelly got mad at Cynthia Bailey this year for their accommodations on their trip, like the room was dirty. I was like, do you think Cynthia has ever laid eyes upon that room before you got in there? Yeah. Like, you know, she did not. Go talk to the segment producer, you know? Like, it's just so funny. Right.

And the picking of the rooms and all that. But the picking of the room, it's always done to like amplify drama. But specifically the thing of like not cleaning the room, it's such fake drama. I have a question when when someone is being demoted. Yeah. As just going to be a friend of. And I know contracts are all different for different people, whatever. But one of the best examples of why, you know, it's a gift from God is when Luann got demoted.

But then her life was so interesting in Real House with New York that, like I heard, like she made more of that season than ever because they were paying her per day. And then they kept using her and everything. And then the next year she was back holding the apple. But some people, their ego gets too bruised. Yeah. And they go, I'm not. going to just, you know, be a friend of. I think there's a lot of benefits to just being the friend of.

The friend of is a cute little gig, you know? You're just not in the poster or... The friend of is a cute gig because it's like you can come in and come out. You're not expected to do as much. You know, you're not expected to be at every single thing. So if like, you know, you have a trip coming up one weekend, you're like, I'm going to be gone. I'm not going to be there. You're like, all right.

You know, and... Like here's Beverly Hills from a couple years ago and it's like, These people were all the actual housewives. Right. But, you know, like Kathy Hilton, I feel like she likes just being the friend of. And it works for her. Well, Beverly Hills is a unique case because the friends on Beverly Hills are Kathy Hilton and Jennifer Tilly. Now, they are, they're making a lot more than the friend of's on other shows.

Yeah. You know, because they're, you know, they're coming in with name recognition, star power, all that stuff, you know, especially like Jennifer Tilly. And they're just fun to watch. Yeah, exactly. And they're bringing, they're bringing it, you know. Right. But like, you know, a lot of times the friend of position was kind of, was kind of designed as like to bring, like to expand the universe of the show, to expand the friend group, right?

That we can see these other people that may not necessarily be a part of the show permanently, but they're friends. And so there were kind of peripheral characters at the best. beginning, but then they became more integral to the story. And I think that really the first friend that, like, made the friend role iconic was Marlowe, Marlhampton, Atlanta, you know. Marlowe Hampton took the friend role and ran with it. And she made herself like an icon in the Atlanta franchise, you know, before she was a housewife, you know, and bringing the fashion, bringing, bringing iconic moments with Shiree and they have like they have there there's several like iconic moments of in her and Nini had a great friendship.

And then then they made Marlowe a housewife, you know. And I think that it just kind of goes with like what you do with it, you know? Yeah. You can go into if you know your place as a friend and like go in, make drama where it is like, you know, like do some interesting shit and like fall back and like you. like you you can be good and like I don't know I think it's a cute a cute gig and I think Cynthia has really like settled into that role really nicely I think it's a really cool way to to reintegrate housewives that have left and a good way for them to come back and also a good way to like test the

waters if that's going to work you know if this housewife is going to work with this new group you know right maybe we don't need to make her a full housewife at first let's bring her in they're starting to do that now. Like with Potomac, we have, we've seen Monique back as a friend for her second season. Now, Robin's back as a friend. Yeah. And so it's kind of a cool way to see the women that we've said goodbye to, to see them come back and like be involved in. And yeah, it's sometimes the friends have big, big iconic moments and sometimes they edit them out of the show completely.

We've seen that happen on Salt Lake a few times where there was like. like a friend of that they introduced and then halfway through the season you're like, whatever happened to that girl? Remember that girl like Mackay or something that started with an M? On Salt Lake. Yeah. Well, there was one season. There was also a girl Danny.

She had like a gray streak in her hair. Yeah, yeah. Remember her? There was a few of them on Salt Lake. There are some that they start. And then you just see this person off to the side and you're like, clearly they thought they were going to pop and they didn't. And then you just never, and that's kind of fun.

When you're like, you're halfway walk, you're like, is this person? Like, why are they always there and they don't address them at all because they were like, oh, we could cut around them? I think that's kind of funny. When you have, when producers have like a specific housewife that like they call every day. And so you're in charge of this person and your friend, the producer's in charge of that woman. Do you as each of the producers talk or purposely don't talk? Oh, yeah, we talk. So you have every, uh, week you have a cast insight call usually with your cast members so usually every uh and every show does it a little different you know like um of how they assign this and divvy it up and stuff but a lot of times it's like

the segment producers are the ones assigned to cast members um so usually they'll have like two or three depending on how many segment producers there are like my first season on housewives of Atlanta that was my first housewives season my first housewives that I was assigned to were Candy in Kenya and so every week I had to do a call on Mondays with both Candy and Kenya where we would talk about

everything that happened over the past week like all the scenes that they had done like how are you feeling about and then we'd go through the whole cast how are you feeling about Drew? Okay like you know we'd go and talk about all the things about Drew

and I'm taking notes you know and then so we go through all the people and then you go through, okay, what do you have going on this week personally, like what's coming up or really like in the next two weeks because you're kind of planning two weeks ahead. And so it's like, oh, I want to do, I want to, you know, my daughter has a tea party coming up. I'd like to invite some of the other girls, kids or whatever. And so you're getting all that information so you can book a place for that. Right, right.

And you do all that. So you take all that information, right, your whole cast insights. I got my candy cast insights and I got my Kenya cast insights. And then I am sending that an email, a big ass email to the entire producing team. Yeah. A detailed thing of everything we discussed. How she feels about Drew, how she feels about Marlowe, how she feels about Sonia, how she feels about Shiree, you know. And then so everybody gets those emails.

The whole team gets them. And then we have a story meeting. And then we're going through each one. Okay, so here's what's going on with candy in the coming weeks. Here's going on with Chiray. Okay, here's what's going on with the conflict between candy and chalet. Okay, here's where we need to like build upon this this week. Here's where we need to get these other women talking about X, Y, Z.

So then by the time they all get back together on Friday for, you know, Drew's beat the bomb party or whatever the hell it is, we'll be ready for Shire to confront candy. And when we see the confessionals, so, Do you do like, let's say shooting is, you know, 60 days? Do you do like a day of confessionals like 20 days in and then 40 days in? The first confessional starts like usually probably about like week four. Okay. You know, you've started doing, like three weeks into production. They're starting to cut the first episode.

So like we'll get them in the interview chair. And then whatever. And whatever that first look is for the confessional. Do they ever get back in that look 20 years later? I mean 20 days later. 20 days later. 20 days later. And they have to get in the same thing.

Oh, hell yeah. So recreating confessional. Because I remember one time Megan King Edmonds or something like dyed her hair pink, but she still had to do the confessions. So then, no, so they like put a wig on her, but it was like a bad wig. Oh my God. It's like at that point, just give her a new look. Yeah.

It's so stupid. No one's going to remember. Yeah. Yes. So they do try to, well, you will recreate looks because it depends on how far you got, right? So say I'm interviewing you and we've shot three episodes, right? We're in episode four. Yeah. Currently in the real world. But in this interview, I have questions all the way to episode three. Yeah. But in this session, we may only get to like the beginning of episode two. Right. depending on how long we took on the first episode. So it just depends. Some housewives are a lot faster in interview.

Some are a lot slower. And do you guys throw them funny lines to say and stuff? I mean, yeah, you'll do like, I think we talked about this last time. There'll definitely be like moments of like when you'll be like talking in conversation. And then if I think of something funny, I'd be like, oh, I wouldn't fucking put that past her or whatever. And then I'll always offer that up and then sometimes they'll just take it and say it. and say it. Do you, what about, do you think there's housewives that, like, hire professional

writers before a season? I've never seen that. I've never seen that. Not for an interview. I mean, maybe I'm sure they, I'm sure someone has done that. But I have never seen. Because I'm feeling like that's going on right now in the new Roney. Oh, yeah.

Like Jessel's coming with like these. And Aaron kind of calls her out on it. And it's like, how long you've been thinking about this, you know, before you came. this lunch to like say these zingers hoping to like pop it you know like trying to have a moment you don't have a housewife that is kind of like all right how much more do we have to do to get you guys out of my kitchen yeah what do you need me to say absolutely because you'll have you know the i think we may have talked about this before but you know going into each scene you have beats right so like in the mornings we all all the crews we get a beats email so it's like

all the scenes break down and then all the beats for each scene. So say it's like, this is a scene with Heather and Patrick. And in this scene, they need to talk about these 10 topics. And within those 10 topics, here's like 10 bullet points of questions they should ask each other. So you kind of tell them that before, but then sometimes they get go off or forget. Yeah, you meet with them both privately before the scene and prep them. Okay. And then, yes, then they get in there and, of course they get off track, you know. So that's when the big words thing comes in or you're like, all right, give them, you know, you, I would rate, because I'm behind monitors, right? Yeah. And then I would radio my segment producer on the floor, be like, hey,

give them big words to talk about, um, big words. Big words. What do you mean big words? Big words. I'll show you. Oh, like I'm sitting there and you're going to go, don't forget to talk about the, I'm going to show you this is what it is. The peach cobbler. Okay, so we're at this restaurant, right? And like, we're shooting the scene. I'm like, God, when are they ever going to get to, um, you know, Gina pissing Heather off? Okay. I need you to go get and, and Tammer. Tamara's eye and give her that. Oh. You know?

Why is Gina scared of pissing other? Okay. Yeah. And then so whoever that was for. And then so like, it's so funny. Some housewives are really good at getting the notes and do it. And then someone will be like. And then so he's like, well, I might as well just fucking tell you.

You know what I mean? But oh, then you can get that. You can get it to blink too and they really don't, they don't get it. But it's funny. But I mean, honestly, like I, you know. Look at these. These are all from the. shows. I have them all. Look. Like, we have, there's so, this is, years of them.

You know, when people say, oh, my God, it's not scripted. It's not scripted, but it is somewhat contrived. I mean, you can say that. I mean, it's, it's, it's not a full documentary where cameras are falling. And I think people know that. No, it's not un, it's not unaltered or something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, uh, like, like, look, you think Shire knows, Martel is dating that other girl. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's like just different, all sorts of questions. Right. And like the quicker you get to it, the quicker we all get. Well, yeah, because these are the story we're tracking, you know, so that's what we have to get.

The last thing I want to ask you about is I've joked that certain shows are, you can tell when the person is, you know, doing the real housewives of the DMV. Like they are checking in, they're checking out. How fucking quick can I get this mic off my back? I want out. What I also think is really interesting, is when the girls start to get really mad that someone's getting out of shit. Like they're leaving the scene early. Oh, absolutely. You know.

Absolutely. Well, that just happened on Mormon wives, too. You can see of like Taylor coming in. Taylor leaving early. Well, she came to. God, that scene was so unhinged. She came to that dinner, ordered everything on the menu. Right.

She said, we'll take one of everything. And then she left like five minutes later. Yeah. Can you imagine someone doing that? in the real world. You'd be like, what is this tornado? You know? But then she left.

But when she left, the girls were like, you're not. You're not. You could hear them saying like, you're not. You already got here late. They're like, you're not. Okay, clearly. And there was such a sentiment, clearly, of those girls being like, I'm glad they used that too.

And they were like, well, this is going to be edited to make like Queen Taylor, you know. So there was clearly like a sentiment between those other girls that like, the show protects and prioritizes Taylor. And they're going to like show her in the best light. But the fact that. the show used them saying that, which kind of makes the show look bad, right? Well, also, it's like, they don't know that she's got the guy in the hotel room.

Oh, yeah, they don't know half of it. But also, she's filming more than they are. Yeah. Because they got to take a nap and she had to take a bathtub with the guy with two cameramen in the room. So it's like, but they don't know that. And they think that she's just being like a lazy reality star. And instead she's fucking three guys. Not showing up at the events.

And, you know, it's one thing to like film one-on-one scenes in your personal story, but like the other girls are like, look, we need Taylor in the group events, the group scenes. Yeah. You're the star of the show. Like so I get the frustration of that, of them leaving. And also like, I'm sure they're like on time and stuff. Like, well, I don't know.

I'm just, I'm speculating. But Macy seems like she's going to be on time, you know. Right. And Michaela seems like she's going to be on time. Oh, being on time. What about all the times that they've held a star back? Yeah. And now, and they're all like, where is Heather?

My God, it's already 830. but I'm told to come at that time or I'm being held back in a car and now there's a whole fight making it that I'm disrespectful and I'm late but I can't say that producer Patrick made me sit in this town car for 40 minutes

You very, I have never had to make someone late like I've never intentionally made someone late I have never tricked someone into being late Okay honey the housewives are going to be late on their own That's good to know I never knew They are always going to be late on their own And like, and it will always be story, you know, because, because the people, they're always like, well, why don't they just leave, right?

Yeah. Because, like, the producers are like, all right, well, fine. Like, the executives are like, we're going to fucking sit here and we're going to have this entire production wait for them. And so let's let all these other ladies get furious with her. Oh, okay. And so, yeah, so let's make it a big moment of the story. Right.

Like when Lisa Barlow was, okay, so Lisa Barlow was late in Ultimate Girls trip. And they're like, we're going to miss our flight. I mean, would they really come close to missing? a flight. Because how would they rebook all those people if they missed the flight? I mean, what at what point do they... That would have been an absolute situation. What at what point do they leave

the girl who's late? I mean, if they were truly going to miss the flight, like everyone was truly going to miss the flight, they would have left her, you know? And they would have gotten her there on her own, you know? Yeah, so they probably have a time in their head that they're like, this is the cutoff. And then look, now there's times on cast trips.

Like, look, they always want the cast together. You want everyone to go. You want everyone to go to the dinner. You want everyone to go to the dinner. want everyone to go to the thing. So, because it's, you know, you're a team. You want all the teams on, all the players on the team. So when it's like a cash trip and it's like we're late for, we're trying to leave and someone's late, a lot of the time they would make the big thing about it, make the stink. But then if it's something that happens all the time, like a Dorit or something,

then sometimes it'll be like, fuck it. We'll have, like, we'll just have them go. We'll have like another car take Doree later or whatever. Because then it gets to the point where it's like, okay, well, this is not going to be an interesting story because it's already happened seven times. So let's just fucking do it. And, you know, we shoot the dinner at 2 a.m. You know, and that's what they do. Most of the dinners you see on a Beverly Hills cash trip are done like one in the morning. Oh, God.

Because it's like she will make those things so late. It's wild. This was, I mean, I love all the behind the scenes stuff that you've shared and your perspective on things is great. And now you have your own podcast that you. are just, you know, again, giving opinions of current shows, how it relates to your past experience. I think it's really great. Tell everybody where they can find it and subscribe. Yeah, thank you.

Yes, the podcast is called Renegade Rainbow. You can find it at Renegade Rainbow on Instagram and on YouTube. And it's everywhere you get your podcast, Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, all the things. And yeah, we're going to be doing, I have some, I'm going to be interviewing some housewives, some former housewives. some former housewives that's coming up. And I've done some like collabs with some other Bravo, you know, pages and stuff that are coming out. So, yeah, it's been fun. The response has been really cool and exciting.

So it's fun. Good. Well, thanks for coming back on JeeC scoop. And everything for me is at hathamintel.com. I will be in San Francisco this weekend at Cobbs, October, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4 shows. and then Phoenix, October 9th and 10th, and then November 14th in San Diego. Everything is at Heather MacDonald.com. Thank you.