Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Gina Gershon on Showgirls, Bound and Hollywood Tales

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Actress Gina Gershon is here with her new book “Alpha Pussy, How I Survived the Valley and learned to live my boobs.” Gina has stared in numerous films and television shows but most notably, the infamous “Showgirls”. She shares about her upbringing in the drug days of the late 1970s in the Valley and how she got out to pursue acting. She survived the casting couch and the darkest side of Hollywood. She also starred in “Bound” opposite Jennifer Tilly, which broke barriers in which she played a lesbian. I also share an update on Taylor Frankie Paul at the top of show. So juicy, funny and inspiring! Enjoy! -If you have an iPhone, head to ⁠https://ladder.fit/JUICYSCOOP⁠ and take a quick quiz to find your perfect Ladder plan. Use my link and get a free 7-day trial with NO credit card, and $10 off your first month if you join. -Right now, go to ⁠https://quince.com/juicy⁠ for free shipping and 365-day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada, too. -For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you visit ⁠https://nutrafol.com⁠ and enter promo code JUICYSCOOP -Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at ⁠https://shopify.com/juicy⁠  Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather McDonald has got the juices scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood Tales for real life, Mr. Sigmund Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicts it fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen to us. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, little update on Taylor Frankie Paul. She is now being investigated from People Magazine following the allegations of a third domestic violence incident. Since recorded last, all TMZ has been doing is putting out more and more body cam videos from the police of the infamous night on the 23rd. So a lot more video, a lot of the parents, her parents, come.

over her talking to the police. That's all been released. It's all on TMZ. She has said, this is just making it harder for her daughter who has to relive it. I'm sorry for that, but also why is an eight-year-old having to relive it? She shouldn't be online and she shouldn't be watching TMZ at night. So maybe just maybe keep it away from her. But apparently there is a third incident. So there's a one that we've been seeing in 2023 with Dakota. Then there was the one that happened in February. That was two days. And now there's some other one that apparently he has video evidence as well that he has come forward and talking to the police about.

So it's a huge mess. There's talk of rumors that maybe the beautiful Mora who was on traitors, she might be the bachelorette. This is coming from DuMois and might be the bachelorette and they would do it live. A lot of people have wondered if they'll fill that time with maybe a live type of dating experience in the Bachelorette world. Anyway, so we have that going on. Just wanted to update you on that. I'm really excited to share with you an incredible interview that I did with Agena Gershon in person. And she has been a huge movie star for many years.

and her stories are so interesting about her life. She has a new book out, Alpha Pussy. She'll be in San Francisco with a book signing next week. So check her out. But let's get into that interview now. And for everything for me, you're going to go to Heather MacDonald.net. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I am so excited for my guest today.

Gina Gershon, you know her from her so many movies you've done. Always sexy. You have broken boundaries with being one of the first and second. You've had a few bisexual characters in the juiciest movies, and this being juicy scoop, when I saw that you had a new book coming out. Your memoir, it's funny, funny, interesting juicy stories. Gina Gershawne's book is called Alpha Pussy.

Great title. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Now, this is not your first book. It's my third book. Yes. How have you enjoyed the writing process compared to acting and doing everything else you do? I mean, this was a different sort of, I have all different, you know, listen, after like writing this and now like selling this, I kind of miss my day job.

I think acting is so much easier. But, you know, it's a different, this was an interesting process for me. It was different than the last book I did, which I never really meant to write a book. and then I did a one woman show, and then I got a book deal. I was like, oh, I'll just write out what I've already performed. And then the other book was a book with my brother who already had the story. And I kept saying, oh, I want to make this into a movie. He's like, I don't want to write it. You write it. And so I was like, no, you write it.

And so I didn't, it wasn't my intention to do that. I just did it because I wanted to get it made into something else. And this one was the first one I did that I'm like, all right, I'm going to write this book, which was, it was interesting, you know. Yeah, I liked what, in just like getting excited for this interview. I like how you were saying, you know, I was, it was COVID and we were just like drinking

and telling stories. And my agent was like, these stories are so funny. Why don't you do, why don't you write a book on these, like, fun stories? And you're like, well, you know, I probably should before I forget them. And I thought that was like great. And I tell people that all the time,

like write your stories or tell your stories. or tell your stories or, you know, make sure that you have these memories because... I mean, I think as an exercise as we get older, and you forget everything. I've already forgotten what I've written in the book. And in a way, when you write it down, then it's like deleting something in your mind. Then you could like make space for, you know, other stories. Yeah. Because I start reading them. I'm like, oh, yeah, that was really funny.

I, you know, no, he wanted me to tell stories. He was really, he was my agent as well. And I, we had happened. you know, been out one night and I told him some stories that I never really talk about, about showgirls. And the next day he was like, you really need to write this book. And I said, I really don't want to write that book. And then COVID happened. And then he said, just start sending me stories just because I'm like, we're all stuck here. It'll be cheery. And so then I just started writing him little essays about showgirls and about prints and about band and just anything that

was coming up. And he was like, oh my God, I love these so much. I'm going to take this out and sell it as your book. And I'm like, what? What is it? And then I just, I didn't want to do that book. I said, you know, I'm not, I mean, believe me, I could write the tell all of tellals. But I'm a very discreet person. And some of the stories, I'm like, I don't know if I want to spend all this time doing that. I said, there's something there, but I don't know what. And then little by little through a series of events with, you know, my mom and she wasn't doing well. And I was dealing with therapy and, you know, and just all of some of these valley things started coming up. Stories started emerging in my mind that I started noticing a theme.

And then once I thought about the alpha pussy story, which really was based on my cat and training him, but then it, you know, when I got showgirls, people were kind of saying, oh, show girls and making me feel uncomfortable. And when I utilized my technique that I did on my male cats to become the alpha pussies and, you know, not be a victim to them. I tried it on, you know, the guys who are, you know, making me feel strange talking about it. And I realize, oh, my God, if I use this technique, it actually works.

I become the alpha pussy. They back away. And it's really about just having agency and standing your own two feet and, you know, not letting anyone push you around, bullies or anyone, you know, in life or in your career. Well, we got the email about having you on the show. show, my husband who works with me was like all excited. He's like, she's from Woodland Hills. So I was born and raised in Woodland Hills. No way. And I talked about Willie Woodland Hills my whole life. And my book talked a lot about that area of town. And we're in Woodland Hills. Can I ask?

I'm just, I just moved last year, but I had a house there for 19 years. I bought it next door to the to the house I grew up with my parents. It was on Lander Drive, just south of Wells kind of near Westchester County, the gated community and Serenia Park. Oh, that was a different, so I was off, you know, if you had Wells and then Oakdale. Right. Okay. So if you went a little further towards DeSoto. Okay. Before you get to DeSoto and you're on Wells and you're going up a hill, you would go to the left and there's a flat area of homes that are like kind of ranchy homes and the technical name is Vista Dero. But they're these flat homes and they're, so, it's like, I mean, flat meaning flat.

So you're in the fancier area. A little. It was a little bit. And then they built. Nice. And then I remember Westchester County got built, but before that it was called the NBC lot. And they would film Little House on the Prairie there. Oh, yeah.

And that's next to Serenia Park. I was near right off of Ventura Boulevard, basically. You know, between Ventura and Wells. Right. In that long strip. Like Oakdale went from Wells to Ventura. It has all the orange trees. It was all orange groves.

It was all pomegranate trees. Yeah. You know, that's what the valley used to be. Yeah. I mean, across the street from my house was a vacant lot. That was like the Garden of Eden. It was like plum trees, fig trees, you know, everything. I had a, my fig tree was my fort, which I talk about in one of those stories, how my fort was infiltrated.

But yeah, it was a different time. I mean, I went to Parkman Jr. High. And when I went there the other day, I was doing something. I said, oh, I'm going to drive by and see what it's like. And it's not there. I couldn't find it. And in fact, I'm driving around Chalk Hill, which, you know, Venture that. Yeah.

Everything. I was like, I might as well have been in Ohio or somewhere. I had no idea where I was. Everything's changed so much. I love that you, that you talked about, I talked about it. And that it was like so interesting to you. Because I was like, oh, it's like, to me, growing up in the Valley, it was. was very interesting because, you know, I grew up thinking it was great.

Right. Being really grateful. My parents were realtors. I went to St. Mel's in Louisville. My brothers went to Taft. I was like, we have a pool. Life is great. Yeah.

Not until I went to USC. Did I realize it was like a negative connotation to snobby L.A. people? Like I didn't, I was like, what? They're like, how do you handle it there? Isn't it like 10 degrees hotter? and I was like, I don't know, we have air conditioning. Like, what's the deal? And then when I worked on a TV show, I just got shit every day for living in the Valley.

And now all those people are dying to buy a house here because, you know, everything's so expensive. But it is sort of like, yeah, the Valley has kind of come back in a big way. Everyone's like, I want to live in the Valley. It's kind of sheep now. I was like, really? Yeah, I kind of had a chip on my shoulder a little bit about like the pride. I was like 818 till I die and like, why is everyone such a dick about it? You know, like, but there were times where I was like, oh, yeah, I wonder if I had ever moved.

Like, and you're around people that are all making movies happen and they're, you know, like, they're at the restaurant that you're at. I'm like, that probably would have maybe been better for me. Maybe I would have, I don't know, you know what I mean? Because my neighbors, I didn't even know. I mean, you don't know. How are you supposed to know that growing up? Yeah.

I mean, I, but I do believe that it's, you know, they say nature or nurture, you know, I think that when I was growing up in the valley, and of course, I don't, I don't know anything other than that. Yeah. And, you know, it was just a very precarious time because, you know, my best friend's brothers were like the weed dealers in the valleys. No, my brother was the weed dealer. Really? Do you remember a man named Jim McDonald? No. Oh.

But I think we were in different. He was older than I am. Oh, so maybe he didn't have the territory. Yeah. He was the Taft one and he would be... This is when I was like barely in Parkman, junior high, barely out of elementary school. Okay. He was doing it more in high school.

He would have been closer to your age. And by the way, this is when you're not supposed to... You have to beep out his name because active... No, he died. It's okay. Okay, he's dead. That's great. He did and I brag about it.

It was the one and only job he had. It was great. I know that we were talking about like people suing. I changed names in here. just so. Oh, you know what I want to say about changing names that I was always like,

thanks publisher. That would have been nice. I tell people all the time if they're going to write any memoir. I'm like, from the moment you do the outline of the story, change the names. Because I wrote the whole thing

with the names. And not until the very end they're like, change the names, but also change the city where this guy was. If he was an eye doctor, make him a podiatrist. And I'm like, I'm like,

I would have done that. But now then I would be doing a book. signing and someone would be like, oh, the Craig story. And I'm like, wait, who's Craig? Because I changed it at like the ninth hour. And no, I do joke about how my brother, I didn't know it, but he was a weed dealer and or more than that. And they had added on a room so you could go through the garage and then he had like a separate door to like the hallway into his room. And my parents were busy all day long trying to sell houses. And I just thought my brother was the most popular guy on earth because people stopped by all the time. They didn't stay very long, but they

stopped by and they left. And then he was like, here, help me grow this. And I didn't, I'm like, what are we making? He's like tomatoes. And we were like growing it in the back. And my parents had no clue. Yeah, that's so funny. But, you know, but at the time, like, there was, you know, I wasn't surrounded by other creative people, you know. I mean, to get, you know, I think my brother and sister were older, so they didn't want anything to do with me. You know, I had the weed dealers over here. And then I'm like, I'm going to go to the bowling alley. Oh, I could sell, you know, pinball games.

I liked movies. So I learned how to sneak in to the Corbin Bowl or the theater. Right, there was Corbin Bowl. And then there was the Tarzanum movie theater. That's what you're talking about, on Ventura. Right, right next to each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I changed it for the cover because it didn't look right.

Yeah. I had to make it a little bit, whatever. But yeah, but then one day I snuck into that movie theater to watch Billy Jack for the zillionth time. And I heard all these sounds like, oh, oh, like, oh. And I'm like, I don't remember, I don't recall those sounds in Billy Jack, you know. And I looked up and there's a smattering of men in the audience with raincoats on. I'm like, raincoats. It's not raining.

I mean, I was clueless. I was so young, I'm like, why are they wearing raincoats? And I looked up at the, you know, the screen and I'm like, what? Like, wait, what? What's she doing with that snake? I mean, it was just, you know, and I was like, oh, my God. And so it's just, isn't it crazy that people would go into, like, a regular movie theater and sit next to other people to watch porn?

That must be the most insane concept to, like, Gen Z today. That is so weird when you think about it. Why even like buy it and get it free on your like, you know, computer? And then you would be like showing your face and going in there or going into a sex shop or like giving your ticket to the person selling the movie the dirty movie. Yeah. Like, you know, listen, that was the valley at a time. It was like strewn with people like that. You know, it wasn't a time of helicopter parents.

So it was like, be home before dinner. Yeah. You know, at six or seven years old, like, I'll walk home, you know, a mile to my house. And like, that's fine. And, you know, listen, predators and toxic and gross people have been around forever, you know. But then all of a sudden I realized, wow, they're around a lot. And, you know, obviously they're here now more than ever. Yes.

So, you know, but growing up, I didn't, I just started getting depressed because I think I was artistically inclined, but I didn't have anyone to play with. And then at some point I started doing theater, but no one really took it seriously. And at another point, I was like, I just need to get out of here. My parents were like, we're pulling you out because all my friends were either getting busted for drugs or it just, it wasn't a, it wasn't a creative, healthy environment. And I was really going down, you know, I didn't have friends I wanted to hang out with anymore. And so then when they moved me, it was either a girl's school or Beverly. And I'm like, I'm not going to a girl's stool.

Yeah, you would have probably gone to Louisville. That's where I went. Birmingham. No, not Bram. Corvallis. No, what was the other two? Buckley. Oh, that's not girls.

And Westlake. Was Westlake the girls' school? Yes, Westlake. Before Harvard, Westlake became Harvard Westlake. Harvard was all boys and Westlake was all girls. I think it was Westlake or Buckley. And Westlake was non-religious. So it was Westlake.

That's where they were going to send you. And I just said, I don't want to do that. They said, or you can get into Beverly. Because my brother and sister, they said, you know, basically moved to the slums of Beverly Hills. because my dad was traveling a lot. So he was closer to the airport. And my mom was an interior decorator.

And she had clients all around. Oh, that was a smart idea. So they're like, you know what? This is a great school. I had an aunt and uncle and cousins there. They were like, we're moving you over here. And I'm like, Beverly Hills. Like, oh, my God.

I just want to go to Calbasis or the beach. I was like a surfer chick. But then secretly, I was happy I was leaving. And once I got to that school, I was like, whoa, there's like a theater. There's a little theater. There's pizza. There's chocolate donuts. They had that planetarium.

They had that pool. They had a pool. I could take surfing for P.E. I was like, this school is rad. I love this school. Yeah. So, you know. But more importantly, I kind of found my people there, you know, like I found

dancers and actors and singers. And to this day, I'm friendly with my gang of girls there. That's so awesome. Yeah. And then I, but then you actually wanted to go to like a professional school for kids, right? Not for kids. When I was at Beverly, one of the older girls, she was like in 12th grade, she had just come from American Conservatory Theater, the summer program. Oh.

And something clicked. Once I started really getting into it, I'm like, I want to be a serious actress. I really thought this is what I want to do. And she told me about the program. And I thought, wow, I have to go. Like, I want to be a professional. And, you know, you go between the summer, between 11th and 12th grade. The only problem was I wasn't old enough.

But, you know, like everything else, I just lied about my age. I had a fake ID. And I auditioned. I got in. And then I had to talk my parents into letting me go, which, you know, eventually they did. But then I had to kind of lie to them about, oh, yes, I'm living with this woman. She's 28. They met her.

She worked at in the costume department at the American Conservatory Theater. So I was with a grown-up. But as soon as I walked in, my parents, you know, my mom was like, I don't think this is a kind of idea. My dad really trusted me. He said, you know, she'll be okay. And then the woman turned to me, she said, guess what? I just got a gig in Hawaii. I'm not here all summer.

I'm like, great, don't say anything to my parents, you know. And so I was living there on my own. So you're living in this pretty nice, normal, safe apartment, though. Yeah. Buy yourself at how old? I had just turned 16. And I'd lied and said I was 17. And you don't know the city because you just got there.

Right. That's amazing. It was fun. That's like that is probably, and so all day long you would take these classes and stuff in the summer? All day long. I just was at school the whole time. And then I met this girl. I can't remember how I met her through a friend of ours and her parents were gone.

And she was like a real socialite fun party girl. And she lived in Pacific Heights, which was the fancier area. And so she's like, just moving with me. She's like, no one's here. And so we lived in her place. So I would go to school all day. And then at night she's like, let's go to this club. Let's go to a party.

Such a fun girl. So I was kind of like living as like totally fun life. And it was kind of nice to have their like have a roommate of a friend, you know, instead of just being alone. Maybe I would have gotten a little weirded out at that stage. Right. It was fun. It was a great, it was great training. And it made me realize like, oh, I want to take this seriously and I want to keep continuing.

and the teachers there were very supportive, and they all just kept saying, go to college, keep studying, you know, this is really important that you learn other things. And I felt that way too, so it was good. And so what was like your first, like, I'm in a real thing that people can watch or see and I'm like on my way.

I have representation. Like, this can be like a real career. Well, when I was in high school, this woman Tina Landau, this woman, she was my best friend at the time, she wrote a play, faces on the wall that we ended up taking to the Coronet Theater. So that was my first professional show.

And I remember I got, you know, all these different people kept saying, we want to be your agent. We're going to represent you. And yet, but most of them were like, we're going to put you on a TV show right now. And I kept thinking, I want to go to college. I don't want to be like a dumbass actress, you know, to me,

just because A, it was important for my parents that I go to college. And B, all the people I respected like studied other things. And I just knew, I hadn't grown into my body yet. Yeah. Even though I was 15,

I looked like I was 24. You know, I, I just, I wasn't there yet, but when I would watch like Jessica Kallang and Francis, I'm like,

that's what I want to do, but I don't know how to do that yet. And I know I need to be older, you know. And so I ended up going with an agent. I'm like, I want to go to college. He's like,

great, go to college. And so I felt, I felt, I felt reassured, I guess, when I did the play. Although I didn't doubt it, you know? I always thought, oh, this is what I'm going to do. Like, you know some things you know. Yeah.

And then I went to school. And as soon as I graduate, he's like, great, come out here. We're going to put you to work. And where did you? How was college for you? Where did you go? I loved it. Well, I went to Emerson for the first year just because I thought, I think my parents

were like, you're not going to New York City, like right out of here. You don't. Yeah. So Boston was a very good introduction to the east, although. I mean, I don't regret a lot of things, but I kind of wish at Emerson I had taken more of the creative writing program because I think it was stronger in that suit. And the acting, it was okay, but I wasn't like blown away by, you know, what I was. And I got into a professional show there. So I had to stay. But then I went to NYU. And I kind of looked at the classes and then I just secretly auditioned again. And then I got in. They said, you know, you can come into the second year because you seem a little advanced. I said, great. So I said, mom, dad, guess what?

I want to go to NYU now. And, you know, they were always very respectful. And, you know, my dad's like, well, we'll do it. But, you know, you have to make your own money to do all the other stuff and we'll take care of this. I said, fair. So, yeah. That's amazing. I mean, I always remember the thing that I thought was so memorable and, like, unique about you.

This is, I love that you did this video. the word on the street, the 90s are back. It's a trending thing. I have this girl who's so great helping me do social media right now because I've never done that. Yeah. You know, I thought for the book, I'll do it for like a month. And she puts, she's like, okay, so we're going to do this.

And I'm like, why? She's like, because it's trending. I don't even know. I'm like, okay. But then she sends it to me. I'm like, oh, that's kind of cute. And sometimes I'm like, I don't like this song. She goes, that's the song.

I'm like, ugh. So I always think this, like the thing that made you to me, so memorable was that you had this very sexy mouth. And it was so unique. And I tell people when I talk about stars from our era, I'm like, yeah, they would pop because you couldn't buy lips. You couldn't buy cheekbones. You couldn't like, so if you had a unique kind of sexy, the way you're like,

you had these full lips that like kind of curved, I was like, that is just. Nobody else has. I mean, didn't people? And as time went on when people started getting all that stuff, they're like, so who did your lips? I'm like, what? I'm like, my mom. Like, I didn't even understand the question. I'm like, what do you mean?

Like, well, I just put this makeup on. And I was like, oh, no, who did them? Yes. I said, they're mine. Look at my mother had the same mouth. My sister has the same mouth. My niece has the same mouth. Like the Gershon lips.

My mom, when she was born in Wisconsin, they came out to L.A. the valley. And my mom said, like, one of the first couple weeks that she was here, she was at a grocery store and someone came up to her and was like, who did your nose? And she's like, what? Because she had a really good nose better than mine. She had like a perfect, like models nose. And it's true. It's like now everyone just assumes that like, because it's thick, you can do it. Yeah. But yeah, and I just think being brunette and your brown eyes, like even that was like a unique look. It seems like we always were just at that time, it was all about, you know, blonde hair, blue eyes, and just even bringing brunette was like something we didn't actually see.

I talk about that in my book, you know, I talk, I can't remember which chapter. But, you know, when I came back here, oh yeah, the first play, so I came back from college and I auditioned and I got my first equity job here because they were, remember when Los Angeles Theater Company opened up. So it was a new theater and I was going to be playing with fabulous people. You know, it was Ed Harris at the time that turned into Bill Pullman and Adam Arkin. And I mean, it was such a great cast. And I was cast as Sharina, the Afghani girl, like, who goes up against the Russian, it was about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. And it was an incredible part. I couldn't believe I got it. I had a whole retinue of, you know, Greek chorus of all

my Afghani girls. And it was an incredible part. So I got to speak with, you know, a little little Farsi. I got to look very, you know, Middle Eastern Afghani, you know, did my hair and my makeup. And I really love this part and got really good reviews, all that, could not get an audition to save my life. They're like, she's fabulous, but we need an American girl. You were too convincing. And I was like, dude, I'm like, from the valley. I'm like, you know, what do you mean? I like, can't be more American. But I was also too exotic. You know, I was dark hair. dark eyes. It was very much the blonde hair, blue-eyed culture. It's so funny that they would say that they would call just a brunette exotic. This guy, I had a book signing in New York, you know, about a week ago.

I'd like this big talk and this, and I, he read the book and he said, I am one of your casting, I was one of the people who got your, you know, to cast you in something. And he had my, one of my original headshots. That's so amazing. But on the back, you know, where it has your listed you know, circus training. You write out anything you can to sound really cool. And on the top, he said, too ethnic, very good, but too ethnic. He said, he goes, you're right, like you were too ethnic for things. And of course, so I made a career of playing Italians or, you know, Colombians,

Afghanis. I mean, anything but like a nice Jewish girl from the valley, right? Or a surfer girl. I always thought you were Italian. Yeah. That's what I thought. And of course now. Maybe it's Gina too is traditionally an Italian name.

And I look very Italian. But I mean, I played absolutely anything European. But of course now they're like, oh, no, no, you're not ethnic enough. You have to really be that. So it was such a crazy time in most of my parts, you know, I was like, I like the guy's part better. They're like, okay, so I ended up playing the guy's part or here's this, which things that you're not, you know, it's not politically correct to do. and it's great that so many people are included, but I'm sorry, you know, I wouldn't have had a career

had I not been able to play, you know, inbound, the gay girl. Oh, you're not really gay, so you better not play that. Bound, like, that's amazing because, no, I agree with that too. I'm like, it is called acting for a reason. If we all just played ourselves, then that's a reality person. I'm very, like, you know, I mean, I get the lines and everything. you know, yeah, if we can find someone.

But also, like, that's what makes people get an Oscars because they're like, I can't believe this person transform themselves into this person. That's called acting. And I'm a big believer. I just, listen, I think if it's a super historical situation where, you know, everyone has to be, you know, Japanese, right? Like, it's this sort of story, then, yeah, you stick with that.

But if it's a story and, you know, here's a brutal, blah, blah, blah, person, some guy who has this sort of energy, I just feel like if a girl comes in and has that energy, I don't care who's playing it. I don't care your race. I don't care your ethnicity. I don't care your gender. But if you like embody the essence of what that character needs, that to me is what I would be looking for. So yeah, exactly. You know, I don't know. I don't, it's also limiting. We're like, well, how old are you? It's like, what does it matter? I mean, especially today. You know what I mean? because you can, with CGI and all the AI stuff, like I could play, I don't know if I'd go under three months old

because two months is a tricky age. But like I could go to 2,000 years old. I could go to easily eight, like you could do anything. Right, right. That to me, and it's an essence of what you're doing. So I really like that part of acting, you know, so. Well, I remember this movie because it really was kind of groundbreaking and it's bound. And you were.

a lesbian. You were working on this house. You fall in love with Jennifer Tilly who is you know so fun. On this show we all watch Real House Fes at Beverly Hills. So she's super funny on it and just

you know and was in a great actress. Perfect for this role because she plays a mob awful mob guys, you know, abused girlfriend. So of course she's like is happy to have like a sexy lesbian girlfriend. And So tell me a little bit about that.

Was that the first time you played a gay character? Well, I was just coming off of showgirls where I was, I guess, technically. Showgirls came before this? Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought this was before showgirls. They kind of were around the same time. Okay. Playing show girls, I wasn't, you know, I was, I don't even call her bisexual.

I call her whatever sexual, power sexual. I think that character would have slept and done anyone to achieve her ambitions. you know, but I kiss guys and that, I kiss girls in that. Who knows what she does? But I think inbound was my first, she was my first real lesbian who, you know, happened to be an ex-convent, who happened to be getting out of prison. And to me, that story was all about learning how to trust. You know, yes, she was bound in the closet and, you know, it was a very beautiful

lesbian love story where I got to be the hero. You know, it's usually I played the typical guys part. And in fact, Warner Brothers, I think it was Warner Brothers said to the Wachowski's, we'll give you a lot more money, but just make quirky a guy. It's a typical noir, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, no, she's staying a woman. Right, the noir of like the girl gets her lover to take care of her awful husband, that type of story.

Yeah, the noir woman who's kind of shady. She probably has the secret idea. and she wants to offer mafia boyfriend. Right. Usually probably screws over the hero at some point, or maybe not, you know, maybe they end up together. But structurally, it really fit that except quirky. The guy, the hero, happened to be a woman.

Yeah. So I was like, ooh, I want to play that. That sounds cool. And how was it? Like, did you already have the part before you ever met Jennifer? Or did you have chemistry tests and stuff? No. I think when I first started talking to the Watch House

because it was about the part, I wasn't, I think they weren't sure and I wasn't sure, like, am I going to be quirky or am I going to be Violet? Because, I mean, typically, Violet was an easier part to put me in because, you know, especially coming off as showgirls, although no one had seen that yet because we had just finished rapping. But I was like, guys, and they were guys in,

I was like, I want to play quirky. I want to cut my hair, I've cut my nails off, not wear makeup, you know, quote unquote, no makeup, but that no makeup look. I said, this is an exciting part. Like, I never get to play this. And so when we finally decided me on Corky, I think they had Jennifer in mind. And I said, well, we have to meet, you know, just because I was nervous about who I was going to be playing with, you know, since coming off a showgirls, I was a little bit. I just like, oh my God, I, you know, the work environment wasn't great for me.

And so as soon as I met Jennifer, I think we went up to Vegas. Gosh, I can't remember now. We went somewhere to meet her. And as soon as we started talking and she's like, oh, you know, she talks in my minute. She's like, oh, you know, I like those chants. She talks and talks and talks. She gets up and walks around. I'm like, oh, my God, she's going to make my job so easy because she's so entertaining.

And I could just watch her. And she just like, she's so charming and funny. and I just adored her right away. And I'm like, oh my God, I love her. So, you know. Yeah. It was a pretty easy. It's a great movie.

It was so good. So, wait, I won't, obviously I have a lot of questions about show girls. I saw it the minute it came out. I was thoroughly entertained. I do remember that they were like, this is the worst movie that ever lived. Now, it wasn't, but, but like in the previews and stuff, It looked to me like I was so excited. I was going to be juicy.

I love stories about Las Vegas. Yeah. I like the genre of it. I love it of like where it's like Hollywood, but everything is quicker and faster and sadder and more dangerous than trying to make it in Hollywood. So the backdrop of it and everything was great. But then there were some scenes that, you know, got people to go, is this crazy? But I, and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting across you me,

but I really liked your character. I like that you were the showgirl that had, you know, been around a minute, and she was the new girl. And it was like, is she a bitch or is she trying to help her? Like, I thought, what, tell me, let's talk a little bit about it. Like, were you, what were you thinking when you got the part? Like, what was your feeling? I mean, I talk a lot about it in the book, just because, you know, after 30 years,

which is now 30 years, the people were like, this is the worst movie. There's same, people cannot wait to talk about showgirls. Like, it's just like the movie that just keeps on giving. You know, I was excited when I got it. It was Paul Verhoeven, who I'd been a huge fan of from his Dutch films. You know, I was really into spettors and, you know, Soldier of Orange and all that. And they'd just done basic instinct, you know, Esther House. Yeah.

And when I read it, you know, I've always been a big fan. of All About Eve, one of my favorite movies ever. And I will always like, oh, I'm the Eve character. And I'm like, wait a second. Can I actually be the Margo character in this? You know, and I felt that I was kind of in between. You know, I was a little... Oh, I didn't even think about the All About Eve element of this.

Oh, yeah. That was just for people that don't know, all about Eve was a great movie where there was a... She was a big theater actress as an old movie. And her understudy, or was it her assistant? No, Betty Davis is a big, huge diva star. She's fabulous. She has her husband who's wonderful, a writer. And then along comes, you know, the Eve character who's just so innocent and she just wants to watch her and

be her understudy because she wants to be an actress too, but she just is in love with Margo, who's larger than life, super diva. And then, of course, little Eve, conniving Eve, which we don't realize until later, little by little, you know, doesn't push Margo down the stairs, but she plots it so then she becomes the big star, right? It's a fabulous movie if you haven't seen it. And she does end up with her husband, right, too? And she ends up stealing the husband. And you know it is a story that is as old.

As old as time. It really is as old as time. It still happens today. I think people can relate to it. Whatever, whether it's a, yes, you think you're mentoring someone or it's an assistant or whatever. And you're like, is this at all about a situation? What the fuck is this? You know, but the only line I really remember in showgirls, people always come up and they say things.

And I'm like, uh-huh. Like, I'm like, why are they saying these weird things to me? But there's, and I'm, of course, I'm going to totally paraphrase it. But it's, and I'm sure Joe Esther House got it from someone else that I should probably figure out who that was. But it's like there's always someone younger and hungrier walking down the stairs after you. Yeah, that's good. Right? And of course, she ends up pushing you down the stairs.

There's always someone trying to take your place in this, you know, But really, watching showgirls now, I didn't see it then because I was too traumatized by the whole thing. You know, it's really a story about, you know, as Paul is very sneaky with his other movies about ugly America, about fascism, about capitalism, about power dynamics. Because at the time, I'm like, why is this rape scene in here? This, like, get rid of it. And now I'm like, of course it's got to be in there. because, you know, the powerful and the whole patriarchal system of it, like, of course they get away with it, you know,

until the women come back and get their comeuppance, which is what I think, you know, is exciting in it. But I didn't see it at the time. I just thought, oh, my God, I've got to get in their job right away to show that I'm really an actress because this is going to be a disaster. So when you were doing it and filming it, was it a pleasant experience? Were you excited for the outcome and then was disappointed in this? feedback or what was it? You really got to read. There's like five chapters. I heard there was five chapters.

What can you share with us so that people still get the five chapters? I mean, I feel like that's such an interesting thing because you never know when you get a role. Like I'm sure there's been times with you and there's been little things with me and going out and things where I laugh about it now like when I went out to be one of the host of American Idol and they described the show me and I did audition for it, but I remember thinking, this thing's never going to make it. There's been like a couple moments where, or I've read a script for like a pilot

and I've been like, this is the dumbest thing. This doesn't even make sense. And I never got it anyway. It wouldn't matter. But where I'm like, clearly my picker was off. So I always think when you're reading a script or you're seeing, you don't really know what it's going to, what the final practice is going to be or what the feat or maybe even times

where you thought something wasn't going to be a hit, has become ahead, you know? I think for me, my, you know, I'm sure other people do this as well. A lot of people, like, maybe it's the director person and me. Like when I read this script, I, first of all, I see what I, in my mind, I think, oh, my God, this is going to be so incredible. And I also thinking about Paul Verhoeven. So I know his films and I'm like, whoa, this is going to be so dark. This is going to be so cool.

I fell in love with the part. I'm like, wow, I get to, I mean, I had to lie about my age and pretend it was older and all that stuff, but I ended up eventually getting it. So I thought it was going to be, and I prepared in my head a very particular part, very Margo, very like, you know, there's the Aphrodite psyche story that I really kind of grabbed onto and the Margot and Eve of it all. but then I got to set and it was a totally different movie I was like oh huh like what you know I think I'm doing a black and white

intense film and then it's like Technicolor sparkles you know and so like I just Even the poster is I'm sure not what you This is one of the posters I've never even seen this poster wow There were different posters I just kind of thought this one was great just because like your names on it

And you see. Yeah, but that's not me. That's Elizabeth. No, down here, your name, Gina. Oh, yeah, there's my name. Well, yeah, my name should be. I'm like, the start of the show.

I know. I know. So what I was looking at, but the other one was one was just the leg. That poster is kind of sexy. Which honestly is more like, yeah. And I thought the poster was a big mistake.

I came into the guys. I remember I was going to the production office and I had this inspired idea. I said, oh my God, I know what the poster should be. I know what we should do. to advertise it because I was driving on sunset. I said, we should have a billboard.

And like there be a curtain with lights around it. Every day it's like 100 days to showgirl, 99 days of showgirl. And the like the curtain keeps rising little by little. And you see the leg, the shoe not wearing much. And at the very end, it's, you know, one of those like kind of nudie girls, like a burlesque thing. Like showgirls, show, but like fun. Because I thought, oh, this is a fun movie. Yeah.

And then they said, oh, no, this is the poster we're using. And I was like, what? Like, wait, what? First of all, it was a known photograph. That was, like, ripped off from this photo. I can't, Angelette. Oh, my God, I'm spacing it on the, you know, it was a photo I had seen. I'm like, I've seen this.

They're like, oh, yeah, we're taking this image and doing that. I just thought it was way too serious. Yeah. But it's so serious. And I thought, oh, do these guys think this is a serious movie? And I mean, I realized at some point I was probably, I had to change. changed my way of thinking to make it make sense. So I did 180 degrees with my character just so I could have fun with it.

Yeah. But then I thought, wow, I think they're selling this as a serious film. I don't know. I was clearly in a different movie. That is so interesting because I think that's what maybe the confusion from the audience and maybe some of the criticism was, is because you didn't understand, like, when Elizabeth Berkeley was like, like, you get all that. And there were these lines.

And people were like, what the hell is this? Like, who acts like this? And it was more of those things where like, you're in the movie theater and people are laughing at things that they shouldn't be laughing at. And so that's kind of where. But then it became like this cult classic that people just love. And, you know, and it's interesting too that you've had such a, you know, a great varied career and stuff that like probably what that must have been like, you know, where there were. real reviews, like Roger and Ebert reviews, not just a million people just, you know,

doing rotten tomatoes or whatever. And you kind of have to see that as, you know, as a major Hollywood star, like, like how does that work? Like you said I need to get a job right away. But like, I wasn't a Hollywood star. Then that was a big break for me. I'd done little movies here and there, but I never had a lead in a film quite like that.

And, um, I, you know, listen, I didn't direct it. I didn't produce it. As an actress, I go in and my only job is to do the best job possible I can, you know. And when I'm hanging from a rope in like a little S&M outfit, watching all these naked dancers below me, it really occurred to me like, wow, how did I get here? Like, I studied the classics. You know, I wanted to play Antigone and Medea. and I'm going to do a lot of checkoff.

And I thought, you know what, we better be really good in this, really good else we're not going to have a career. And so I was very, I stayed on my own track of what I wanted to do. And, you know, there was just a few. But for most part, I kind of walked away unscathed. Yeah, I think you did. The rest of the movie got like lambasted, which, by the way, isn't fun either. I thought you were a very believable character.

Yeah. Like I believe this girl worked in Vegas. all these years, you know, like, you could, and she's like, you know, she's a great character. Yeah. And I, you know, I did a good, I did the best job I could. And I, but it's just, it's hard when you're the one getting good reviews and everything else is getting slammed. It doesn't make you feel great. You know, I mean, thankful that I'm not included in all that. Yeah. But, you know, listen, reviews. I learned a lot from that because, you know, if you read the good ones, if you believe the good ones, you have to believe the bad ones. And, you know, it's just an opinion. And some of those same

journals who were like, this is the worst movie, you know, for years and years and years. They're like, so let's talk about show girls. I really like that. People would say, I really like that movie secretly. And, you know, I'll tell you, the only person, and I know he's been very controversial lately with a couple things, but God bless Quentin Tarantino. He was the only, like, kind of a major player at that point. He came out with a big article saying, I love show girls, and these are the reasons why.

And I was like, oh, God, good for you. Because everyone was just kind of going along with the tight saying, oh, they're saying it's bad. Well, I better say it's bad too. And people sometimes don't have their own opinion. So I really appreciated that he supported the movie. And so, yeah, it was. So anyway, before it came out, it was supposed to be this big brouhaha, but I secretly, in my head, thought I better show that I'm actually a real actress because I don't know what this movie's going to do. So that's when I said to my agents, find me something fast.

And they were like, no, we're going to put you in a big studio thing. We're going to do this. And when I read Bound, I'm like, I want to do that. I want to do that. And I want to do that now. And they were shooting it now. And I'm like, I couldn't find a part that was so diametrically opposed to everything that Showgirls was.

And so I thought, perfect. Yeah. And what was your relationship? Like you've always had, you know, you've always been, you know, sexy, great body. How was it like doing more, showing off your body more on film and acting? Like, did you, like, what was your relationship with that? Did you enjoy it? I mean, I talk a lot about that in the book, you know, these are things I address, like, through a lot of different chapters.

You know, I, listen, I grew up. I was a dancer. I was a modern dancer. Me and my girlfriends, we'd take off our tops and we'd do our Martha Graham movies, you know. So the dancing part to me wasn't that big of a deal because I just, that was a dancer. And originally, I actually never was really supposed to show my body in it. A little, systematically like all of a sudden you saw my chest, you know. And, you know, the one, the most naked kind of you see me in is in that, in the big volcanoes.

scene and I have a, there's a whole chapter about that specifically, um, about how it turned into a G string from that, you know, uh, you know, listen, I, I don't have a problem with anything, really, as long as it's justified. As long as it makes sense for the, as long as it makes sense for the character and the story. Yeah. How does this move the story forward? What does this do? There's a whole chapter about I it's it's one of my favorite chapters you know um I called out crazy the crazy I believe that it is when all of a sudden you know it came to my attention like oh we need to be totally naked on this scene I'm like what like you know and I talk a lot about that how I kind of wiggled out of that one although you know listen anyone who is going to be especially now I mean

get intimacy coordinators. We didn't have that then, but this is why you have... That's what I was going to ask you. Like, when did that start happening to have intimacy coordinators? Not until, I don't know, last 10 years. I don't even know. Yeah, it seems like the last 10 years. It's not really my, I'm not so used to... This is why you have lawyers. This is why you make a contract ahead of time and you, it's so, you, it's not very sexy, but you go very systematically through, oh, you know, you'll see 5% of my hand. Okay, on a screen of this. And you go through every sex scene, every nudity scene. So you are protected, you know, in case all of a sudden your director turns out to be a psycho saying, we're going to do it like this. And it's like, well, no, actually, I don't have to because we discuss this ahead of time. Unless you're a smaller player or a stunt woman or something, sometimes you maybe don't have the say because it's like, do switch it up, you know.

I think it's really important whether you have a lawyer or not, then you have those conversations ahead of time. And I could certainly sympathize. And obviously it's happened a lot, as we've seen in the last few years. And that's one of the reasons I wrote this book as well when I talked to some actresses. And they're like, oh, my God, this is what is happening on the set. And I'm listening, like, dude, you can't like, A, you have to look the person in the eye and say, hey, you know, I'm not really comfortable doing that. Tell me exactly what. And they're so intimidated or stressed out, which I can appreciate.

And everyone's like, well, you're so tough. You know, you know how to do that. But like I wasn't always tough. That's all those. I set up the valley for a very specific reason to show how I had to learn how to have an antenna and this and that. But, you know, at the very least, I just am a big believer in don't do anything you don't want to do. You know, that doesn't feel right to you. Right. And I'm sorry, like, I, you know, I feel really horrible and bad for, you know, a lot of these people are victims. And because they have no say. What about the person that's going to be deported somewhere unless they do something horrible with their boss? Like, these are the people we have to be protecting, right? Right. Exactly. And unfortunately, and hopefully, fortunately in the future, I don't know why we don't have this now. There's a thing called accountability and consequences. And maybe that will prove to be a deterrent for the future.

the people who really don't know how to defend themselves and really kind of get in a situation, you know, we definitely need to help protect. And I definitely think in Hollywood especially, but in a lot of industries, if you do stick up for yourself or demand or whatever, then, you know what, they don't ever have to hire you again. And they could also tell their friends, don't you hire them either, because now they have a bad story about me and I don't want them telling that story in the room. Yeah. And that's happened. And that is the blackballing thing that happens.

And I think that's why people do stay quiet. It's why we have a union. But even if you go through the right channels, it's still, it's a subjective thing. It's just weren't right for the part. And you never got another part. And you're like, okay. I'm sure I've lost at least 35% of rules because I didn't play along or. You didn't comply.

There's, you know, the head of the agency is like, oh, let's go out. And I'm like, oh, oh, for lunch, good business. And then you realize, oh, no, this is a, oh, this is a date date. Like, oh, no, no, I have a boyfriend. Like I always just said I had a boyfriend. But then, you know, but these are choices. And you know what? If all of a sudden, if I was like, oh, my God, I want to be famous. I want to make money. I want to do this and that. And if that was a way to get what I wanted, you know what, that's between me and me. And I just have to own up to it, right? I don't judge anyone for their choices. But because, clear with what your choices are. And if you don't want to do that and you're not comfortable either,

you know, some of these stories, a lot of these stories is how I kind of manipulated my way out without completely confronting these little egos so they could completely blackball you. But like, you know, as women, there's so many ways you're like, oh, ha ha ha, like what? And then you get out of it. And, you know, listen, I get along with, I haven't met a wild animal. I haven't been killed by, you know, whether it's dangerous, you know, swimming with alligators or snakes, you know, or wolves or, you know, I'm very good with animals in yet, I wouldn't walk through a jungle after dark by myself. Right. Because animals are animals. Don't put yourself in a situation that is, you know, could potentially be very dangerous. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I have. I.

always said because I was been doing the show since the beginning of the Me Too and I covered it all and the Harvey Weinsteens and stuff. And in hearing all these stories and, you know, with actors and things, I'm like, I am still waiting for the one actress who doesn't give a fuck anymore is a woman of a certain age who will tell the true story of like, yeah, I did do this. So that, that I could get that part. And once I got that part and showed the world what a great actress I was, I never had to do it again. But I felt that was my only choice because I was at this level or because I didn't have a good agent or because I want as a Nepo baby. You know there's so many people. And I just want one person just to like tell their juicy story. You know what I mean?

I think you'll be probably waiting a long time to hear that story. I probably will. But it must exist, right? I'm sure it does. I mean, we all have our things of like. Yeah. Listen, I tell another story in there, and it's the one I don't really name the actor, because my job is to throw anyone under the bus. Yeah. But it was very clearly, it was the closest thing to like a casting couch because I kept saying, what am I, chopped liver? How come I never, although so funny, I kept, I said that in the book, like, no one ever really did that to me. And this woman who read the whole book, she's like, she tried to hit on you or whatever. No, she was just like, she goes, you say you don't have that.

She goes, but you literally have story after story after story where you were navigating it. I said, you know what? I realized that now. I didn't realize it then. Just because I'm like, you were just like dodging bullets. Well, we're so used to that. And I was so used to that in the valley dealing with that. But there was one story where the guy at the casting thing is like, oh, you're so cute. Why don't you stand up and walk around? And I remember like, like, this is gross. Like, you know, good luck. If you're going to get gross, I actually am going to leave. He's like, no, no, no. I think you should be my wife. And I'm like thinking, ooh, you got to kiss this guy if you do that. I'm like, no good. I'm good with it's just two days of a work.

Anyway, I thought for sure I would never get the job. Oh, you mean he was like, I want you to play my wife. Yeah. Oh, okay. Play my wife. And that would be a bigger part. Bigger part. And I thought, oh, I have to kiss him.

No, I don't want to do that. I said, no, I'm good with this the two days. Anyway, I thought there's no way I got that because I was like, listen, you're getting weird. Like, I'm out. Good luck with your movie. You know, because I thought this isn't worth it. And I still got cast. And then I was on the set and he said something weird.

And I'm like, you know what? And I mean, who was I? I was doing theater then. I was just like, you're young. Yeah. I was like, we could get along just great if you just don't talk to me anymore. And I thought, I'm going to get fired. And guess what?

I didn't get fired. But it's like I didn't want someone, I didn't want him talking to me like that. So you have to either. And you, yeah, I think that's so interesting and it is so hard to do. But it is kind of like, you know, when they say, um, especially if you're like walking on the street and you feel like somebody's walking behind you, like the thing that you're supposed to do is like turn around and look them down and be like, get the fuck away from me. And then you like act crazy, get crazy back, be direct. Out crazy the crazy. Yeah.

And so I also think like being also just, you know, just calling them on like, was that supposed to be funny? Are you trying to be funny with like, you know, the women that can do that, which is not me. I was a person that laughed at the gross joke because I was like uncomfortable and wanted this old man to feel comfortable. And I was like, I love it when a woman calls it out and is like, really firm. And if you do it

the way you did it, so I want everyone to read this book. The way you do it, it's like it's a strong way. It's in the moment but it's also not making them feel that they do have to fire you because they're so insecure now. Like you did it just the right way, it sounds like. Yeah, but I learned how to do it. Yeah. I mean, there's a story in there about when I went to the Playboy Mansion. When I was 15,

you know, I never been to a mansion. I didn't even know what a heck was. Now, how did you get invited to that? Oh my God. You got to read the book. I mean, there's all these, you're going to like this book because there's so many of these stories that you're, but they're just so long. I don't know how I look at the time. Yeah, we want people to buy the book. Yeah, buy the book, crow, read all these juicy. And I love that there are little stories because I think that also is so good because people, you know, their intention, they're, though people are reading a lot more books that's coming back in.

But I love essay funny books that tie together, but also that you. Yeah, you could jump around. I know, me too. But, you know, I remember when I was at the, I went to, ended up, there's a whole long story to get into it. But at the end, at one point, you know, I'm 15 and I'm at the Playboy Mansion for the first time. And there's some guy saying, do you want me to show you around? I'm like, yeah, I've never been to a mansion. I'm like, this is rad.

Like, free pinball, free food. This is cool. You know, I was so naive, right? And then he shows, and my mom's an interior decorator. I'm like, oh, I can't wait to tell my mom about the molding on this. Look at that molding. That's beautiful. So he shows me the red room, this room, this.

And then he's like, do you want to see the grotto? And I'm like thinking, what the fuck is a grotto? I'm like, yeah, sure. I want to see a grotto. I thought it was like an animal. I had no idea. And then, of course, it's the inside of the pool. And there's a couple people swimming naked around it.

And then I was like, whoa, this is interesting structure. I mean, you know. And he's like, so should we take a swim? And only then I realized, oh, my God, is this guy totally hitting him? How old was the guy? Ancient. He must have been at least in his 30s. Right, but that's where like the innocents is too, because when girls are in that position,

even if it's someone who's, you know, they're contemporary and they think like you're just some guy, but you just think they really want to be your friend. Or they are so older and unattractive, you're like, how would you think I'd ever like you? I wasn't even thinking about it. I was like, oh, this is neat. Oh, look at rocks in the water. That's so cool. Because you're 15, that's why.

But when he said that, when I realized he was hitting on me, I just looked at him. And it was so neat. I said, dude, you know I'm only 15. You could get in so much trouble. And he laughed. He goes, ha, ha. What are you? 23, 24. I'm like, dude, I'm only 15. I'm seriously 15. You could get in a lot of trouble. And I was just laughing my head off. That guy ran. He didn't even back away like the other people. He just like ran. And I was like, oh, like, but it was coming from a very innocent place. And I think later on, with the whole alpha pussy, when that started thinking, shit, I got an alpha pussy the situation. It was definitely, you know, sometimes you don't want to lose a job. Sometimes you don't. So you have to figure out a way to sometimes, you know, caress in a way not to like totally destroy their ego, but to, I find sometimes just looking at them in the eye and just say, oh, I see. I was like, oh my God, that's, yeah, that's making me so uncomfortable. like, oh yeah, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and owning up to it, and then they get uncomfortable

and they walk away. So good. You have to finesse it, you know? And it's just about, and anyone could do it. It's not just a female thing. Right. There's other bully stories where people were pushing me, and I had to figure out, how do I get out of this?

And believe me, sometimes I was not very elegant about it. I just, like, you know, jumped on them and ended up breaking my nose or, you know, I had a lot of rage me as well. I don't know. I just think obviously toxic people and bullies and people trying to push you around and telling you what to do. They're not going away. So to me it's important to have agency, know yourself, understand what it is that you want and, you know, just do what feel and listen to your instincts. And if you don't care how you get a job or if you're going to be pushed around because you want to get, then anything is fine. This is not a how to book. This is not a how to book. This is not to like, you know, guide to whatever.

This is just how I navigated my own personal journey. And if people love the stories because they're kind of funny. And if they get something from it, like, oh, the alpha pussy concept, that's a good idea. And that works amazing. I love that. I mean, you've worked in this business for, you know, a long time, many decades of just the 90s and on and you continue to work. Like the industry, you know, we hear all the time, it's changed so much.

and, you know, there's not enough production here in L.A. And people are going to movies or whatever. Like, what do you want for your future? What do you see happening in this business for you? Going on, continuing to act and direct and doing all the things you do? I think the next, you know, I think I kind of got into the writing bug all of a sudden. But I have what I like to do, I've written one script, but it kind of set aside. but I want to address that

and I'm in the middle of finishing another script that I'm absolutely obsessed with and these are parts that I would play. So to me if I could write scripts that I think are really cool and get cool people involved and I get to do it. That's exciting.

That's really exciting to me. And it's the only, I mean, listen, if someone just offers me a part that I think is cool, like that's the easiest gig. To me, that's like, oh my God, I love this. This makes life easy.

You don't have to do the whole thing. Yeah, but until I find that, I'm still interested in exploring characters that I want to explore and I like stories. So if it's a, I'm really into original stories, you know. I'm just sick of seeing the same story again and again. I like supporting first time directors. I like supporting just fresh, you know, stories and projects just because they're harder

and harder to come by. And, you know, I like a good story. I'm a storyteller. And if I get to act in it, something that's a fun part, different for me to play, amazing or if I just write it or I don't know then I might just turn around and start painting for a while I know do you paint I started to during COVID and I think I'm really into it I was but you know that's so cool I don't know if it's an age thing or a COVID thing but I used to build a multitask and I can't it's like once I go into one thing it's all I'm doing you know once I go into this that's all I'm doing

so like it took me a while to write this because of course my day job which is acting all of a sudden I'd get a gig. I have to put everything aside. I'm like, well, you could write at night and do your acting a day. I'm like, I don't know how to do that. I can't. I just get absorbed in what I'm doing. Yeah. Well, I'm, this was a real thrill for me to get to talk to you. And the book is Alpha Pussy and so juicy. And I think you teased it just enough that everyone needs to buy it. And where can they follow you on Instagram and make sure that they... I'm just, I'm only on Instagram. I'm not on any of the other social medias.

And my name is, what's my name on Instagram? It's just Gina Gershahn. Yeah, it's Gina Gershaw. Okay. It's Gina Gershon. And of course you can get the book. But there's other Gina Gershant's like this. You have to look for the little blue dot.

Did you do an audio version too? I did an audio version. I believe it's out now. Yeah, everyone loves an audio version. Yeah, I listen to audio all this time. And especially when it's your story and your voice and like I think that's super valuable. So get the book. if you want to read it, otherwise get the audio version.

Thank you so much, Gina. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So great to get to know you. So fun. Thank you. Thank you.