Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Gretchen and Slade, RHOC Lies and Lil Nas X

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

Real Housewives of Orange County’s Gretchen and Slade tell all! 17 years ago a night of excessive drinking on camera is now the main storyline. Who is lying? Who is exaggerating? Can anyone in the Bravo blogger universe keep a secret? Which housewife is really doing the most behind the scenes to destroy their co star? Lil Nas X was arrested and the couple who claim to have their baby kidnapped have also been arrested for murder. -Go to https://hungryroot.com/juicyscoop and use code juicyscoop to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life! -Get your first great love story for free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at https://audible.com ! -Head to https://letsliveitup.com/JUICYSCOOP and use code JUICYSCOOP for 15% off your first Super Greens order! -For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://nutrafol.com and enter the promo code JUICYSCOOP! -Ready to give MASA a try? Go to https://masachips.com/JUICY and use code JUICY for 25% off your first order! Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, it's Heather McDonnell from JuicySoup, and I have the juiciest of them all on Audible. Romance has always been a crowd-placing genre on their platform, and there's more to imagine when you listen to their expansive collection. They have audiobooks to satisfy every side of you. I'm talking about the Romantasy genre, which is huge on book talk right now, with authors like Sarah J. Mass and Devney Perry. Get your first great love story for free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at Audible.com.

This is Trixie Mattel, co-host of The Bald and The Beautiful Podcast, drag queen, and Amazon Prime enthusiast. And I'm Katya, interpretive dancer, chaos agent, and someone who orders from Amazon Prime more often than I check my email. That's true. Yeah. Prime gives us fast delivery that makes unpacking almost glamorous, endless streaming of our favorite shows, which we call research, and music playlists that are both chaotic and calming. Prime isn't just convenient. It's a gateway to trying new things. It helps us discover new obsessions in dive deeper into old ones. From one day delivery to top shows to music, whatever you're into, it's on Prime.

Visit Amazon.ca slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. With summer in full swing, I feel that urge to just refresh my closet. That's where Quince comes in. 100% European linen tops starting at $30. Washable silk dresses and skirts and soft cotton sweaters. I mean, so versatile. I just got the cutest white linen. and blazer that just goes with everything.

Give your suburb closet and upgrade with Quince. Go to quince.com slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com slash juicy. Heather McDonald has got the juices scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood Tales for real life, Mr. Segment, Serial Data, and Serial Sister,

you'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Whoop, woo. Hannah McDonald's Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. All right, let's get into what has been going on. All right, little gauze. was, had quite a weekend on Ventura Boulevard in the valley. And he was arrested and charged

with four felonies. I guess he did resist arrest and possibly touched an officer. That's where those come from. And also I think public like nudity. This is what happened. My understanding is he was strutting up and down Ventura Boulevard in some adorable white cow. my boots and just white underwear. But the body's banging. And as someone who has lived close to Ventura Boulevard and especially in the last five years, I would not have batted an eye. That's another day in the life of living in Los Angeles of someone talking to themselves, strutton. Or, I mean, that's an outfit that you'd wear to Burning Man, quite honestly, which is right around the corner and still my worst nightmare, please don't ever invite me.

And there was just a big wind sandstorm that happened and I'll never understand the appeal. But anyway, he's walking down. And, you know, it's a hot summer night. The valley gets hot. What's the problem here? But I guess somebody thought the underwear, like, counted as nudity or that he didn't seem well. So they called the cops. Honestly, I don't know anyone that would have called the cops.

cops that lives in the valley that would have seen someone like this unless you might have known he was little gnaws then when by the time the cops comes there's footage of he got rid of the underwear and uh but still again not something you haven't seen if you've lived in los angeles for the last five years of someone just buck naked going to the bathroom whatever and but he wasn't doing any of that he was just walking just you know having fun talking about who's coming to the party or something. So after Little Nas was arrested, they did keep him in prison or jail over the weekend. He had a hearing. He's out now. And originally they thought he was high. I don't really know what happened personally when I saw the video. I didn't think he was acting that crazy.

But then again, I told you what my experience has been with people on Maternity Boulevard. So I hope he's okay. It's giving a little Britney Speer. It's giving, you know, just wanting to be dancing and free on the streets. So hopefully he's okay. There's that. Brittany of the Valley is appearing to have a boyfriend that showed up an event with her. And he too is a father of a couple kids. And in one of some posts, apparently his wife commented, this is coming from the

Vanderpump Rules Party. They have a big Instagram account and where they cover everything, Vanner Pump. And the son is who reported that she was seen talking to this guy. And, you know, he looks cute, some tattoos, you know, age appropriate for her. And his wife, who kind of is similar in looks to Brittany, commented like, he's still married and everything. But the story is that he has been, he and his wife have been separated for seven, at least seven months. We know Brittany and Jacks have been separated for over a year. It does take a while to get a divorce. So I don't think it's really that juicy that people can date other people while they're going headed towards divorce. And also, they discovered that several of Britney's

good friends who are cast members are following him. So it tells me that he is well-liked. I think Sheena and Kristen Doty followed him. So, you know, this is what will be exciting. If we're going to follow these people and what their life is in the Valley, raising young kids, co-parenting, being separated, you're going to date other people. So we'll see if he makes an appearance on the show. Some sad news, but not unexpected, in the kids. that I covered last week about this couple who claimed to have had their child kidnapped outside of a big five in Yucaypa. If you recall right off the bat, from the moment we saw their press conference, everyone was very suspicious of this couple with their story. The mother claimed that

she was changing her seven-month-old son in the backseat of her car when someone said, Ola and punched her and she fell to the floor. She said floor, not ground, which I thought was interesting. And when she came to, the baby was gone. And in this particular dark park of the parking lot, which happened at 8 p.m. There were no surveillance cameras. So no one could see if this happened at not or not or if anybody was there. They didn't issue an Amber Alert. They found out that the dad had a previous record of child abuse on another child where there was brain damage ensued, how this guy is even out after or something like that with other children is truly shocking. Sadly, the son looked like he had some type of special needs. They have not

found him. They didn't, the wife didn't want to take, the mother didn't want to take a lie detector test. And they have been arrested. Both of them have been arrested. And the latest as of this recording is the father was seen with police in a field we are assuming that maybe he was showing them where the body might be very sadly so you know all of our suspicions were correct right off the bat that this just

none of it made sense and I want to do a follow up on that okay Real Housewives of OC I will be including after I talk about this, my interview with Gretchen and Slade. First time they came on the show, we did record it. I did give a preview of it to my Patreon people, and it's been very well received.

If you didn't hear it there, you can hear it now. And what makes it really juicy and interesting, if you're not following this season of Real HouseWive OC or this at all, you're going to want to listen to this interview because when I cover Housewife stuff, I always try to do it in a way that you don't need to be really watching the show because it's very relatable. And this involves a very long history between Gretchen and Tamara Judge. They have been, she first came on the show in season four or I think, yeah, I think it was four and Tamara had been on for a season prior to that. I'm not exactly sure. But right from the start, it seemed like Tamara kind of had it out for Gretchen.

and Gretchen naively thought that Tamara would be a friend to her. And we get into the history of how the show started with her now life partner and father of her child Slade, how the show actually began when Slade was on with a previous girlfriend. It's very juicy. But what Gretchen wanted to do on the show was really explain what has happened this season, which is this, this,

Newer cast members, she's only been on two seasons, Katie, went to a blogger, they call them bloggers, podcasters, meme accounts, whatever, and asked her to have lunch. This woman named Kiki. And at that lunch or dinner, spilled all the juice that she had collected from her castmates. Katie brought it like a silver platter. This is all my opinion. Kiki then went and told other people that do what we do, whether they're legit journalists, authors, podcasters, I think the line is really blurry. And I don't think anybody that talks to someone and is told not to tell. If they go and tell, I don't think that makes you a, you know, a journalist or someone of high integrity. Whatever, it's all Bravo stuff. I mean, we're not, this isn't a criminal case. So though the fans are making it seem like it and Gretchen is on trial.

So Gretchen really wanted to clear the air what happened. Basically, what happened was 17 years ago on the show, or whatever it was, a long time ago. Gretchen was new to the show and she was engaged to an older man named Jeff who she gets into that in the interview of how they met and what their, love affair was like, who had cancer he has since passed. They presented her as the gold digging young harlot, whatever, on the show. And Tamara really was trying to, I think, get that out there when she says, did you go to Bass Lake? You went to Bass Lake. Like Gretchen can never have one day off or do anything fun while her fiancé is suffering with cancer. And it was like, but I can't remember what came first or what,

but they have this infamous night and Tamara has a dinner party and now we're seeing the scenes. Everyone's putting up the scenes again of this night, which if this aired today, you would be hands down canceled. I mean, basically, Tamara says, we are going to get Gretchen wasted, naked, wasted.

And I have my 22-year-old son, Ryan, bartending and the producers show us footage throughout the night of them plowing tequila shots into Gretchen in which she says I've been at the hospital for you know this amount of time you know this is so it's like she's probably sleep deprived she probably hasn't been out or had fun in a while and there's cameras and you know she's getting all this attention and drinks are being sent given to her at this small dinner party at Tamara's house Lynn Curtin, a cast member, says to her, you know, slow down, like, you know, you need to drink some water. Gina Kino is like, what the hell is going on here, looking at the producers like, what the fuck is happening?

Gretchen's getting more drunk. Ryan, the 22-year-old son is, you know, coming around and really, really flirting with her, and she's kind of slurring her words. And then he follows her into the bathroom. And they have the whole exchange, we hear it because they've got their mic. on. Gretchen says no to his advances numerous times. It's really quite shocking. Numerous, numerous times. And she's like, you're cute. You're attractive, but I have a very nice fiance. And no, don't try. Stop. And he's like, just one more kiss. Just one more kiss. I mean, so predatory. I mean, I, no way if this was happening today would producers not go right

in there and take her out. And, you know, but this is, this is a long time ago. Also in the episode, then we see that Lynn Kirtner, husband, say we will take Gretchen home. And Tamara says, I offered her a cab or to stay at my house and she'd rather stay at my house. So, and then Gretchen says in a confessional, I mean, Tamara says in a confessional, Gretchen stayed at my house. I think that's really important. Cut to all these years later, Gretchen and Katie, off camera, have a meal with Jen and Ryan. And I'm sure in discussing and catching up on her history with the castmates, she tells the many stories that she believes has happened with Tamara and maybe the other housewives.

And this story gets told. Katie then goes and meets with this girl, Kiki. Now, I have heard personally from like 10 to 12 other people that Katie has also DM these, DM'd people like this that anybody that has Bravo in their medium account, Katie has gotten a hold of you. Either talk to you on the phone, met with you in person, DM'd you, sent you articles, or all of the above. I don't know why Katie thought this was a great idea, but I think she just wanted to get anybody in the Bravo universe on her side because she was so pissed that Emily and Heather brought up the fact that she did not have legal custody of her children on the last reunion,

which I do think was a pretty low blow by their part. So in sharing all the scoop at lunch, she tells Kiki allegedly that Gretchen was so wasted that night that she had to go to the hospital the next day. Then that story gets relayed. Then Kiki goes and tells us, couple other people, and then those couple other people tell Tamara that this story is going around. And now it's that Gretchen said that she was roofied and went to the hospital. Cut to Tamara sits on it for weeks. Now they're filming. And Tamara brings it up to Gretchen.

Why, I don't know. Does nobody have a subscription to Peacock? Does nobody want to rewatch what you did on the shows in the past Real House I suppose see girls. You guys have filmed each other. You tried to plow drinks into Kelly Dodd in Ireland. You have made up horrible lies about many people, including Kelly

and the train. You've made, I mean, you've all been part of awful rumors and things. You've done awful things. This, I think, being one of the worst ones, because it involves your son being quite predatory. Like, in this, I believe Tamara was a real Gazane Maxwell-ish, okay?

I'm going to say it. This is my opinion. That's what I'm saying. I don't know why she would want to bring it up. I don't know having this knowledge, why it infuriated her enough to want to expose this. When Tamara has also been one of those people that's talked to all of us, myself included years and years back, behind the scenes over and over, like so many people, you know, in sharing information. She was doing what Katie was doing before anybody was doing it. Okay. So all. of it is there and then Gretchen says, you know, no, like this is not, I don't, I don't, I don't, never said that. I never said Roofie. Like, what are you talking about? So then the show airs on Thursday and it gets brought up and Gretchen says, I don't, I mean, did I go to the hospital? I don't know. I should have gone to the hospital. Something like that.

And she explains the state she was in when she stated that in the car because that's where the discrepancy comes. That's why I'm glad that she did my interview, which we taped at the end of last week. and why then when I listened back and I watched it, why I think it's really important that you look at it a different, in the way of what does it matter if she went to the hospital or she didn't go to the hospital? I believe Gretchen that she never said about the hospital. She probably, she may have said, yeah, it was pretty bad, whatever.

It was never a story to be repeated to anybody for an article in a, you know, newspaper or a podcast or whatever, it was a girlfriend venting to another girlfriend at a dinner. And it was really a case of, I think, miscommunicated telephone, exaggerated things. And even if she did say it, in my opinion, who the fuck cares? Like, this was a horrible thing that happened. She was probably hung over for three days. However, she spent the night at Tamras. Tamara knows and she knows that she didn't go to the hospital. So why would she have said it and why would she have made that up? And again, the bigger picture is what went down all those years ago. And I mean, there's so much history there, which I will get into on this week's Patreon, of that I know about my involvement of when I was really close to all the girls years ago when I was the only one doing this. And I did have the scoop. And guess what? I didn't fucking tell. I didn't go. tell 12 other people, because there weren't 12 other people doing this, let alone 120 people, which is probably the amount of people that Katie has spoken to. So Katie denies it.

Gretchen's trying to clear the air. And, you know, I just want, there were some, a lot of comments about what you're here in this interview. And one was that I asked, why are you in Slade not married? And she said, well, you know, we put it off many years ago because we wanted not to get married until all Americans could get married. And people were writing, oh, that's convenient. Now you say that, Gretchen, as if she didn't really mean it when she sat on my couch. Well, in 2013, there was an article written in which Gretchen Rossi says, I'm 100% behind gay marriage. And she says right here, I'm 100% behind gay marriage. The Orange County Houseway firmly tells Star Plus, I have so many wonderful friends in the community some have been with their partners for over 20 years it would be

great if they could get married and show the world their love and commitment in the same way that straight couples can said that in 2013 so i'm just saying this is not for show and also um you know she i remember she threw the tupperware party with a very famous drag queen that is just the greatest um tupperware person, your cassidia in 2010, if you know, you know, like very fun. So like way, I'm just saying these things can be strewed a certain way. And I do believe that it's just gotten really dark in that I feel that, you know, Tamara has had it out for her and has been putting out things. And I think it's been very obvious. And again, that is my opinion as somebody who not only has interacted with these people for 20 years behind the scenes, but also has watched

the episodes, remembers it, and is watching the new dynamics of social media and how it drives a storyline. So with that being said, I want you guys to listen to this interview. I think you'll really like it. I think you'll have a different perspective. And with all that being said, it's a juicy season. It's a juicy season. It's got us all talking. So for all the players involved, touch. Maybe it'll be different next year, but this is the story now. So here we go. Hello, you guys, it's Heather McDonald and I have a juicy scoop for you on Audible. I've been loving their romance collection. They are a leading creator and provider of premium audio storytelling and they've got this down. Romance fans are among their most engaged and voracious

listeners. So there is nothing guilty about this pleasure. There's more to imagine when you listen and they have audiobooks to satisfy every side of you. Audible has modern rom-coms by Lily Chew and Allie Hazelwood and titles from the Romanticie genre that is going crazy right now, like the ones taking over book talk. We're talking about authors like Devney Perry and Sarah J. Mass. Plus, you can get into classic regency favorites like Pride and Prejudice or all the really steamy stuff.

I mean, imagine a dalliance with a Duke or a sexy billionaire. You can find a book boyfriend in the sixth. city on a hockey rink or find love in another realm with dragons. When it comes to what romance you're into, you can't be pinned down. So here's your invitation to have it all. Get your first great love story for free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com. Hello, you guys, it's Heather McDonald and I have a juicy scoop for you on Audible. I've been loving their romance collection. They are a leading creator and provider of premium audio storytelling and they've got this down. Romance fans are among their most engaged and voracious listeners.

So there is nothing guilty about this pleasure. There's more to imagine when you listen and they have audiobooks to satisfy every side of you. Audible has modern rom-coms by Lily Chew and Allie Hazelwood and titles from the romanticcy genre that is going crazy right now like the ones taking over book talk. We're talking about authors like Devney Perry and Sarah J. Mass. Plus, you can get into classic regency favorites like Pride and Prejudice or all the really steamy stuff. I mean, imagine a dalliance with a Duke or a sexy billionaire. You can find a book boyfriend in the city on a hockey rink or find love in another realm with dragons. When it comes to what romance you're into, you can't be pinned down.

So here's your invitation to have it all. Get your first great love story for free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.com. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited because I've got a super juicy one for you today. Reality, royalty, Gretchen Rossi, Slade Smiley, Real House of O.C. Parents to Skyler Gray, most famous little child, beautifully dressed, always, always coordinated. Your Instagram was really fun to follow. And I love, I don't know if you've ever referred to, but I started something years ago when I started to follow you, that you are always going to these fancy parties.

And I call them the cupcake ladies. Oh, the cupcake ladies? Because of Casey being the cupcake? No, I didn't even know that she was a cupcake lady. I just thought that you guys looked like pretty cupcakes all the time. That's so funny. Because it was always like, oh, we're doing a Tiffany's theme. Oh, we're doing a pink and diamonds team.

And I was just always like, why are these girls not on the show? And then you just said they're too nice. Oh, you know what? They've all been asked. They all have been asked to do the show. And they really are. They're like the nicest humans ever. And they just would never want to be involved.

that kind of crazy drama. Yeah. Yeah. Besides, they're going to go, what? Film Housewether go to Santerpe. Yeah, exactly. They're like, we're like, we're going to go to the Santerpe. Speaking of which, and then we're going to get into the deuce.

But when, like, how much preparatory time do you have to go to these fancy parties and does anybody eat at them? At these fancy lunches. Okay, I'll give you a juicy scoop. So we definitely eat, but we always have like this big fancy cake and everyone's like, who's the cake for? Well, the cake is mainly food. fake, except for the very top piece.

That's just the small piece. Because the other two layers are just faux to like make the cake look like really big and pretty. So it's like cute for our theme. But the top part is the only part of the cake that's like edible. Isn't that funny? And you do eat the cake? Oh, we do. Yeah. You do eat the cake. Yes.

And so but how much has it ever happened that one of the cupcake girls is having a competing fancy lady luncheon party in Newport and you or do we all coronate before? No, because Because most of our friend groups are, like, because that group that is together is like one group. So we all are friends.

And then if there's another, yeah, and we're all friends. So when there's a party, we're all planning a party because we basically, there's 12 girls in the group. So there's basically 12 parties throughout the year. How hard would it get me, would it be to get me invited just to one cupcake party? So you're not allowed to be invited because they cut off anybody else being allowed to be in the group. I swear to God Because I really actually love your honesty Because so many times

What I've asked to be invited to something People are always like Oh my God absolutely And then I like never hear from them I love that you're like no We've cut it off And I only know when the parties are coming Because sometimes the guys call me going

Right Dude it's another party Like are we just gonna have cigars And have a whiskey in the corner Like what are gonna do? Yeah exactly No and you do have to prep Because there's always a theme

So you have to get like the look for it And then you have to We have to call the cake people And we get the flowers And listen we're all about celebrating life and making things special for our girlfriends. And we just have a really fun time at these parties. And it's an excuse to get dressed up, be with your girlfriends and just have a nice lunch.

How much time, honestly, is spent on the Instagram shoots? Just as you're there, you're all have a good Instagram following. At least probably the first 15 minutes, we'll take pictures. You try to get that out of the way. Yeah, we get it out of the way. So then the rest of the time we can enjoy ourselves. Thank you. This was riveting.

Honestly, I have been talking about the cupcake ladies. I love this years. Yes, it is a well-oiled machine. So, Slade, you entered the world of Real House was a OC first. First. Did you tell Vicki Gummelson that? Oh, my God, that's right. First.

And first spin-off. First. And that was where you and Joe, right? We're going to have a dating, a dating show. Yeah, you know that story. I know the story, and I remember watching. Do you know why it happened? Why?

Because I was offered the Bachelor. Really? So wait, tell me how that came about. So for people that are like, you know, newbies to the world of the OC, it was a totally different show back then. Yeah. You were at a charity event with Scott Dunlop and he was like, and it was like, who wants to be on a pilot or something? And you, what was the story? So Scott and I already talked.

And he's the creator of the show. Yeah, he's the creator of the series. He came out of the groundlings. You know, very funny kind of dry humor guy. Yeah. I was doing some light acting. I was doing some commercial work. And I moved into the neighborhood.

So I was a couple of houses up from him. And a mutual neighbor introduced us. And he said, you should know Slade. He does some stuff, you know, up in L.A. And he's, I'm doing this show. Like, you should be part of the show. It's going to be really funny. We're going to do our own version of Kirby enthusiasm.

That's how it was sold to you. Yeah. That's how it was sold to me. It's all comedic. Honestly, that's my favorite thing of how Housewife shows. were sold to people. Right? Which is,

it was not at all the way. We're going to focus on your charity work. Yes, exactly. It was. It really was. It was really different. If you saw the first trailer, like with the original trailer,

it's really funny. Yeah. It was always about the families. And they had characters. They had the guy who was the 70 and 7. He made $70,000 every seven minutes. Who was that? Well, he would stand in his backyard.

Yeah, but it wasn't meant to be a reality show. It was a comedy. That's what I'm saying. It was a comedy. So there were characters. Life. It was like a character. I remember being at the grocery store and seeing like a star or magazine or something and then promoting the real houses of Orange County holding an orange. And my first thought was what a brilliant idea. This is a parody of Desperate Housewives holding an apple. And I was like I was a fan of reality shows even back in the day. So I was like, you know, from MTV the first one, the real world. So I was like, oh, I cannot wait to watch the show. What a smart idea.

But that is the brilliance, I want to say, of NBC and Bravo. Yeah. Because it was originally designed to be this unscripted comedy. It was our version of Kirby enthusiasm. So the concept was exceedingly wealthy people in the largest gated community in the United States, highly dysfunctional. Yeah. So you had a character. You had the guy who's $70,000 every seven minutes.

And he'd be in his backyard. you go, what a great day. I just made 70K. You know, it was really slapsticky, kind of funny. There was a kid called the boomerang. Every time his parents kicked him out, he'd come back again. This is what was pitched to you because I don't remember these parts. This is the actual trailer.

Oh, this was the trailer. It was pitched to the network. Oh. So we filmed for three and a half months doing satire, doing a lot of setup, a lot of comedic stuff. So that's where we see like her in the front, Joe and the French made costume and things like that. Exactly. So for the first three months of production. And when you did like that weird scene where you were like doing exercise and you're like,

I got it going on. Yeah, it's all designed to be slapstick. Right. But what happened is three months into production, the network came back and said, look, we've been really thinking about this and we want to change format. We want to call it a docu soap. So we want to film me in a documentary style, but be soap opera-esque in the stories that we tell. And this whole reality genre is kind of blowing up.

So we've decided we want to be the answer to the afternoon soap opera. So now we're going to focus on the women, the husbands and kids. will kind of be ancillary and we're going to do all this however we don't want to lose the three months of footage we're still going to use it so you can imagine now what you were doing with satire i mean i'm on the golf course with my assistant right i tee off and i'm like me grab my balls you know it's designed to be slapstick or my clients are coming to me and they're saying hey dude like you really suck at golf yeah like yeah but i'm rich you know saying these obnoxious You're playing like a character, a douchebag.

You're playing a new poor douchebag. And so three months into that. Because you had a Hummer, too. Well, I had a Hummer and I was looking to get one. That's right. And by the way, when I watched the show, because I had known him, because he was a title rep and I was selling real estate. When I watched the show, I was like, who the hell's this guy?

Like, that's not who I know, like in my day-to-day life. Like, why is he being so dushy on TV? But it's because of this whole story that I didn't know. So it comes out. And it's like a slow hit Because I'll tell you When I was at Chelsea lately I was like

I was doing invitations of Vicky And they're like, what are you talking about? And I'm like, I'm telling you Like we have to start watching the show And then finally, not until New Jersey Did we do a parody The first parody ever of Housewives

I wrote Which was a parody of their reunion Because we had Teresa Right, I remember that And all that I played slutty Danielle with the legs I remember that. That was funny.

Chelsea was a, um, Dina Manzo and, and a guy played my friend who, Brad Wallach, who is naturally a redhead, he looked gorgeous as Caroline Manzo. Like, it was hilarious. It was all so funny. Chris Ranjolo was Andy. Like, it was really great. Yeah, that's right. So then, um, so then once it starts getting going, you and Joe break up.

Yep. But they come to you to say, would you be interested in being the bachelor? Yes. They come to me and say that. Well, Joe and I break up, Scott Dunlap says to me, I want you part of the show. Can you take Lori on a date? Oh. And I go, yeah, I'll take Lori on a date.

She's awesome. I'm single. She's single. She's a great lady. So we go out and we hang out. Yeah. All suddenly it's like, oh, he's chasing housewives. Yeah.

That's like, no, we're friends. We're working together. We're both single. I take the girl on a date. I mean, she was cute. Yeah. We're friends with Lori and George today. I mean, yeah.

I always remember when she got George. And Vicky, and she gets that car. And Vicki's like, the jealousy where you're, we're seeping jealousy, but you also want to be happy with your friend, but you're so like that, like, those real moments of like, he's the best guy in this. And then, of course, Lori did get the best guy in the world. You know, they're so meant to be together.

They're such a great couple. Okay, sorry, go on. So you do that little date thing. And then I was offered an opportunity to go do The Bachelor. Yeah. And so I go back to the network and I said, I'm going to take this opportunity. They go, no, you're not. I go, what do you mean?

Your contracted to NBC. You can't go do ABC. Right. I'm like, this is not cool. And they go, look, we'll develop something, you know, around this concept. And the idea was to become the real bachelorette. Okay. And so that's when they pulled Joe back in.

Joe was already dating and she was off and we'd been separated for a minute. We were still doing some work together because I would help produce her record album. Like she wanted to sing and all these things. But she was off doing her own thing. So that's what they decided to do. Here's the concept. Joe's going to be the real bachelorette. The guys live in your house and they're going to try to, you know, work with you to win her over.

So that's how that happened. And then the end of the twist is, can you sit up and put that up a little? I know him well enough. He's going to look and go, I look so fat. I know he's going to do that. I know he's going to say that. So I'm trying to help my being out here. There you go.

I like the pillows for that reason. The pink pillow looks cute. Okay. So wait. Question. Okay. Yes, I remember that. And I remember at the end and the twist was I'm going to be one of the final guys.

Right? Oh, you're talking about the guy that got kicked out? No, she came at the end. And you said it was like, yes, there was a twist. Like, I don't remember that. And I knew it was fake watching it. But it was like at the end, twist was, I want to be, I want to be in the. the running. Oh, I want to be in the running? Yeah, at the end. Yeah. That was definitely someone

other than me suggesting that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so that show has a one and done situation. Yeah, they wanted, they, they came back and asked to do season two. It actually did pretty well. With other people or you guys again? No, Joe wouldn't cooperate. It was supposed to be my turn. Oh, and then she was going to find you something. She said, no. Because she had already run off with whoever she was doing it that time. Sure, she regrets that one. So just because, why, not you could have put her in a different thing that she's a very nice person okay so then when do they approach you to join the season it's his fault okay tell tell the story so then they were looking for somebody to replace joe and slade and i'm at season two uh season four four right season four

because they left season two and then they did their spinoff and then they had come to him and said we're looking for somebody that's similar like you and joe like a younger couple or younger, like, you know, person like that. And so we're at a mutual birthday party, a friend of ours, and him and Joe were there. And he starts talking to me about doing the show. And I was like, oh, hell no. I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I have no interest in the show.

And he's like, well, just think about it. You know, producers want to talk to you. And I was just like, no, no. Well, he gives him my number. And they start calling me. And I was just like, I'm not interested in doing this. Now, at that time, are you dating your. I'm with Jeff.

You are dating Jeff. Yes, I'm with Jeff. And so I was just like. it um because this is so many years ago wasn't engaged yet i don't remember so many years ago i mean this is what 18 years ago dating someone so much older you know it's weird because it just kind of organically happened like it happened over a period of time when i was when we because i sold him a house so that's how i met him originally and i didn't realize until much later that he was like smitten with me and wanted to like take me out on a date like he would make comments and stuff

because then i ended up helping him like decorate the house because i've done that for for a lot of clients. And so I didn't really get it until much later. But honestly, we ended up falling in love. And I didn't, I didn't see the age difference. I just didn't. How much was it? It was, I think, 23 years.

Okay. Yeah. So, but he was just such an incredible amazing man. Like, you know, my parents and I, we would travel with him. Like, he was just a great, great human. So I never really saw it that way. But looking back, I mean, I was clearly naive, you know, saying yes to the show and getting on. And I mean, I have to say they must have seen this.

beautiful girl with this older guy. It's such a classic Newport story. It's like, oh, we got it. We got a good one. And here's the worst part. So the very first scene they do with us, and of course they don't show like exactly what the deal is. But we're in Michigan, and I'm filming with Jeff in Michigan, and they say, oh, let's go

to the jewelry store that Jeff is part owners in and go around the jewelry store and show all the pieces that you like in a store. But they forget to tell the audience that Jeff is part owner in the jewelry store. So it looks like I'm walking around the jewelry store going, I love this and I love this and I love this. And I'm like, I watched the first episode. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm such an idiot. Like, why didn't I know that they were like going to set me up to look like this? So that was hard because, you know, I had been a very successful real estate agent for many years on my own.

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So, yeah, I walked right into it, you know, not even realizing that it was going to make me look like that. So when you join the first time, right on. the bat we do see there's a there's a blonde budding of heads between you and Tamara right and jokingly she says you know before you get in the car hang on to your daddy's girls you know like you're a husband stealer or whatever right and did you you came in just so like hey you know like not understanding what's going on did it do you think it started there because I know there are times when you throughout the seasons, you guys did have a come to Jesus and got to hang out.

Yeah. What do you think it was from the very start? Why there was this thing with her appearing to be against you. You know, here's the thing. I wish I knew because I, you know, back then I didn't understand it. So many years later, after being able to, you know, look back and see what was happening. And everybody at the time was like, she's so jealous of you. And I felt like it was conceded to be like, oh, she was jealous of me.

You know what I mean? because it just felt weird saying stuff like that. But looking back, I feel like she was always like, I'm the hottest housewife, I'm, you know, this, that. And then I come in and then it's like somebody's stealing a little bit of that limelight from her, getting, you know, look at this cute girl, who's this person? And I just think that she just didn't like that. Like she didn't like anybody coming in and taking over any of that rain for her.

And she just, and then she was so, and then the audience really started liking me. So then it was like she was just determined to be like, she's this horrible human being and she's this and she's that. And I was just like, wow. And also back then, we didn't have the access of knowing truly who the audience was rooting for anything because there wasn't like social media. There was barely even a reunion the first couple years and there wasn't podcasts and there weren't, you know, like sometimes you guys would do those blog things and then you'd have to do that like a homework assignment. Right. And then so it was a really kind of a different thing.

But there was that scene where Gina Kino goes, oh, well, Gretchen, you know, is another cute blonde and da-da-da. And she kind of calls it on it. I didn't really think about it. But it's true, you know, it was like you had Vicky and Gina who were kind of similar of age and, you know, attractive, but not of the same, you know, I think, like level of just like being done. And so that is very interesting. So then we have you on the show for how many years were you on it for? I did the show for half a decade. So what is that?

Five seasons. And between your fiancé passing and dating Slade, you stayed on the show the whole time. Or did you leave in between? I can't remember. No, I stayed on the show. Okay. And then, so how does your romance begin then with Slade? So Slade and I had known each other for 10 years.

And so we were just good friends for many years. Because like I said, he was a title rep and he owned a title business. And then I was a real estate agent. So we had known each other for several years and been really. good friends. And then when Jeff was really sick and then after Jeff passed away, he was like one of the only people in my life that called and checked on me all the time. And he, because, I mean, he was going through it with his own son. So it's like he just knew what it was like to always be in a hospital and be drained and tired and dealing with all of the stuff that you have to do is,

you know, dealing with somebody that's sick. And so he would just check in on me all the time. And I remember, especially after Jeff passed away, he would check in on me. And then he would be calling me and talking to me about all the girls he would be dating to try and just, like, he'd have to date five women to feel like he was dating the person that he wanted. Because, like, he just could not find anybody that he really liked or whatever. And so we would talk about this. And then he would call me and be like, can my girlfriend come down and stay at your house? And I'm like, sure. Like, that was the relationship that we had because his girlfriend was coming down.

She was a model. She needed a place to stay. And I was like, absolutely. So we had this relationship for nine months. And then I was going to like my first business meeting since Jeff had passed. And it was with men. And I felt a little vulnerable still. So I called him and I was like, hey, would you mind coming and being kind of like the male presence to like represent me in this meeting? Is this when you were doing like your makeup and bags and stuff? Gosh, I don't even remember what the meeting was, but probably. Yeah. And it was just before that. And so maybe. And so I walked into this meeting and he walked through the door. and I just, I remember literally going, huh, I don't remember him being that cute. Like, it was like this really weird aha moment. And I think because in timing in life, when, you know, I'm no longer with somebody and

he's no longer with somebody, he walks in, I was just like, huh, like, this is weird. And then in the meeting, the guys that were in the meeting were like, is there something going on between you two? Because it was like so obvious that we were like giddy and like flirting with each other and like all this stuff. And then that night we went. They were rescheduled, right? Yeah.

They wanted to reschedule. They were like, okay, well, let's like just. have a second meeting or whatever, because we were just, like, giddy. Yeah. And so then we went to dinner that night and literally I feel like we haven't spent a day apart since then. Like we just, I don't know, it was just weird. It would just like, and four days later, we went to Vegas. And on that ride, drive to Vegas, we literally said we felt like we could tell each other we loved each other.

It was so weird. And then we didn't tell each other we loved each other until like a month later. But we both said in that moment and when we were driving in Vegas, we felt like we felt like we were going to say it too soon. We knew we were going to be together for the rest of our lives. Like we knew it in that. that moment. So then when you come, you're filming the show and now it's like, oh my gosh, Gretchen's dating Slade. Yeah. How was that like reaction, you know, because this is like, this certainly isn't a story I have ever heard before, didn't know. Well, we tried, I said no

initially to go back on it. He said he didn't want to go back on. And then at the time it was Kathleen French and Kathleen French calls me and I remember this so like distinctly. She calls me And she goes, out of anybody, why Slade Smiley? Like, you could have Richard Branson. And I was like, what? I was like, what are you talking about? The airline first of God. And I was like, I don't know.

Like, I don't, I'm sorry that like I happen to fall in love with Slade Smiley. Like, you know, and it was to me at the time, I remember that he was such an odd question because it's like, because I fell in love with him. And it was like, they wanted me to have somebody that was like richer, older, whatever. I don't know. I think it also had to do with the fact that when we did the spinoff show, you know, I was in those development meetings, you know, I worked with production pretty closely on that because I'm technically almost hosting, hosting these guys. And so as things are happening and transpiring, you know, in that reality, I'm working directly with production to keep story moving. Yeah. So you kind of step behind the wall a little bit and you're working closer with production than you are just being someone who's out front in a reality position.

And so to go back on this show. but yet have worked with them in a different capacity. That's interesting. It's just a different relationship. It becomes very different. Right. Yeah. But so then you guys are on the show for how many seasons together before you take the big break.

So that was five, six, seven, eight. So four seasons. And everyone now is aware of what season was a naked wasted? Was that? Four. Yeah, that's when I first came on. The naked wasted thing happens. I talked about it on the previous show and that, you know, of course,

someone wouldn't do that today, you know, because it's not okay to get someone that drunk and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So now we jump to the show and the latest episode. Yeah. So why do you say, you claim, no, I never said roofied. Katie said that you told her on a night out that you were so drunk that night that you believe that you're roofied, meaning somebody slipped some roofing means somebody slipped something in your drink. It doesn't mean I fed you too many shots of tequila. It means something, a drug that's not legal was slipped in someone's drink so that they lose all control. Right. So you're shocked by that when Tamara reveals that to you. Right. And now in this latest episode, you're in the car. Explain what happened and what was going on. So what happened was,

so what happened was when Tamara tells me that story, I'm obviously blindsided. I'm just like, wait, what? Like my brain is trying to comprehend what Tamara just told me that supposedly Katie said I said. And my brain starts going back, because you got to remember, this is months and months prior, like back in September, October that we went. Is when you guys chatted. Is when we went to dinner. Me and Katie, Jen, Ryan and Matt, we all went to dinner. And there was, it was a three-hour dinner. So there was a lot of conversation that was happening that night. And Matt and Katie had asked, like, what my experience had been with Tamara. The boys are down at one in, kind of talking about their stuff. The girls are at this in talking about one thing. And so then it was just like any other

conversation I would have with you. I'd have with anybody. Right. You know what? My experience with her has not been great. Like there's been a lot of things over the year. She tried to give me naked wasted at one point. And she was like, naked wasted, what's that? And I explained to her what naked wasted was. She tried to get me drunk. And I was like, yeah, and I was so sick, I probably should have gone to the hospital the next day. That was the gist of what happened that night. So when all of a son, I'm hearing now months and months and months later that Katie is telling some blogger that I said that I got Roofie by Tamara. I'm just like, wait, what?

I'm like, I couldn't even comprehend what she was telling me in that moment. So then we're in the car and you can see in the scene where I look very tired. I'm exhausted. We've been filming for two days straight. I just get, you know, blindsided by this information. And she says, so did you ever tell Katie that you went to the hospital? And you see me like, wait, can we ask that again? Tamara asks.

And so I'm, you see me in the car kind of being like, I mean, like, because I'm trying to remember what happened months prior. I'm like, I mean, did I tell Kate? Like, I'm trying to think of like what was said that night. And clearly I miss speak in that moment, just like all of us on this show have done before. I could see in your face. Like you were exhausted. It almost like if you look at the scene, it's like she's almost experiencing a. again, the horror of being that embarrassed and, you know, being taken advantage of.

I could just see her. Well, it's like I was having PTSD from it. It's like weird. Like I get, you can see that I'm like really distraught just going. And she was mumbling. Yeah. She was mumbling like she was thinking through like she was mumbling going back to that moment and time.

And they, you know, they put the words up on the screen. It's like I don't think what she said was clear. I can barely hear what I say. I mean, honestly you telling me this because I'm a big true crime person. Yeah. And my sister is a criminal defense attorney. It's like reminding me of when someone like. inadvertently, like, confesses to a crime because they're being, like, you know, have another

cup of coffee. Let me talk to you now. Right. And you're finally like, I guess I was there. No, no. And I totally get what you're saying. But, like, that's not what it was. I mean, and even when I saw the episode, I was like, wait, what?

And you said, so then you do say, yes, I think I said about going to the hospital. Yes. And so then, so then, and then it like cuts to me saying, no, I never went to the hospital. So I'm sure people are going to be like, well, that doesn't match up. Well, the right, because the way that it shows, it's not matching up. But my point is, is that I misspoke in that car right. Right. And, you know, I mean, Tara's misspoke about autism, she said.

And she just misspoke about the FBI allegations. You know what I mean? So it's like we all have misspoke at some point on the show. Right. And this is a reality show too. Like, you should be, if you're truly doing your job as a reality start, you're living in the moment. You're, you know, you're talking. And we've seen it happen on other shows with.

the valley and everyone hating Janet because she says something, you know, that seems extreme about another cast member. But at the same time, in her defense, I'm like, well, if you're, this isn't a trial. You're living in real life. It shouldn't be taken as oath. You do not put your hand on a Bible. This isn't, you weren't prepped by an attorney before you took the stand. Like, you're literally living your life and you're trying to figure it out. And so I'm like, I mean, did I tell her? Like, I was trying to think about what, what? was talked about that night because it was been so long ago. So then, and what's even we're even we're even weirder is then months later.

So we go to this dinner in September, September, October. And then months later in February, Katie calls Jen and Ryan says, what was said that night at dinner? So I'm like, nothing's matching up to me here on the stories that Katie's telling. Because now- She calls them. So where, so they- When, wait, when was February?

Was that while you were in New Orleans? No, no. No, no, no, this is a four-month gap between the time that did the dinner took place to when all of a sudden, I think we were traveling, Jen and Ryan were traveling, they get a call from Katie. And Katie says, hey, what was said that night at dinner about naked wasted? And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, why are you calling us? Right. Why are you calling us asking us?

So, like, let's call Gertrand Slade. And they can tell you what happened. John and Ryan. Okay. Yeah. So then she, so then they're like, we don't remember. They call, well, it's not even the. they don't remember. They're like, that's not our story to tell. So, like, why are you even

asking this? Yeah. And so then they called Slade. We're in Las Vegas at the time. I'm in the bathroom. I'm kind of overhearing like this conversation, but I can't really hear it because I'm in the bathroom getting ready. And Slade's like, why is she asking about naked wasted? Like, why is she even asking that? And then she could hear, yeah, he could hear somebody in the background. And so he's like, who's she even talking to? And then she hangs up the phone. And she's like, never mind. She didn't realize that Ryan three weighed me in on the call. Because Ryan's like I don't even know what you're talking about

If you have a question about this You should just be talking to Gretchen Slade and Slave Let's just call him And he like he three-wayed me in And the minute she heard us on the phone call She hangs up She was just like okay never mind And then like hangs up

And so both him and are like that's so weird So then fast forward to us in New Orleans And how much time is between February and filming in New Orleans Well so technically we were We started filming but I think New Orleans was like in March maybe Right after soon

And so And so, and so I'm just, like, so confused about why she's even asked this, whatever. Well, the reason she's setting this up for you is because, you know, in the episode, she's adamant that she knows what was said. And she lays out all these specific details. Yeah. She said, Gretchen, and what's even weirder is so we're in New Orleans and Katie is swearing that she did not tell Kiki this fake story. She's like, I swear I did not tell Kiki this story. I swear. I did not. I did not. And she's like, adamant. And so I'm believing my friend Katie and

as like an idiot defending my friend Katie saying, my friend Katie's telling me you shouldn't say this. So who am I going to believe? The person that's lied and said all these things about me for years, Tamara, or my friend Katie. So then all of a sudden I'm watching this episode and she's like, I'm no longer protecting Gretchen. I'm telling the truth. Gretchen and Slade have been out spinning the story to everybody. And I'm like, protecting me from what? Your lies? Because I have not gone out and told anybody this. And the point is, is that had I told anybody the story, it would have already been out. Somebody would have put it out forever ago. And if I actually thought that, I would have been the first person to put it out. Do you know what I mean? Because this was 17 years

ago. Right. If we're going to follow with what Tamara says her beef is with you is where she says you've talked about me for years, then why wouldn't you're right? Why wouldn't she have brought up this, which there's video evidence of pretty bad behavior, not illegal, but you know, trying to get your friend pretty drunk on camera, regardless of if something was to happen to you're not, you're just not making that girl look that good. I remember seeing it actually on OC with Kelly Dodd. There was this episode when they were in Ireland and Kelly was like, no, I'm good. And then Shannon gets up and goes, make sure her drink is a double or something. Oh, yeah.

You know what? And so there was a little of that. And it's like still, it's not terrible. No, but I'm saying it's not because I heard that story differently. But I did. Okay. Well, I'm saying what we say in camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

With the audience. So there was like, well, why are you trying to get me so? So I'm just saying it's not great to do to anybody. Right. But you're right. If you really had that kind of like visceral reaction where you really, you know, felt like something criminal happened. I would have been yelling that 17 years ago. Right. By the way, I'm not trying to protect Tamara from anything. You know what I mean?

So like, why would I, when Katie says, I'm, I'm no longer defending Gretchen Slate or protecting them anymore. I'm like, protecting us from what? Your lies? And I think what happened is. Yes. Why did you say what? I think like, I've had like five theories. It's very hard to figure out what was the motivation. Even from Katie's point of view is that while she was in New Orleans, I think she started to realize that the women were on to her that she was out telling bloggers the story. Got it. And in particular, Kiki, because they kept saying, no, we know Kiki said you said this, right? And so I think when she got home, she all of a sudden started realizing like, oh shit, I'm going to get busted for this. I need to come up with a plan B as to why I went out and told people this story. And people have come out even beyond Kiki saying, oh, she told me the story, too. Other bloggers since then, since the show's been airing.

So I'm like, clearly she's the one that's out doing this. I'm not the one that's out trying to spin some story. And really, from Tamara's point of view, she should be mad at Katie. Because Katie's the one that's out trying to, like, spend the story. If I wanted to have that story like that out there, if it was a true story, I would have said that 17 years ago. And I certainly am not going to be protecting Tamara over that. I'm going to be telling everybody that. And every single one of those cast members

who have known me for years and said, I've known Gretchen for years. She's said a lot of shit about Tamara. She's never once said this. Gin was present at that dinner and she said Gretchen definitely did not say that. She said she felt so sick. She should have probably gone in the hospital.

Well, did the reporter she was trying to leak to investigate to? Called around. Yes. We've never heard that before. No one's ever said that. And because it was never real, they just decided not to do the story. They're like, we're not even going to post the story.

story because it's not even a legit story. So then Katie and now Matt are doubling down. And now Matt's, Katie's husband, is claiming that Slade called him in New Orleans and said, protect Gretchen, hold the line. And I'm like, what are they talking about? And you should tell that story because you're the one that called Matt. I'm pretty disappointed in Matt, obviously. Because I did call him.

We had just had a conversation about, you should. shouldn't be going and speaking to bloggers or media. Like, it's not a good look. Obviously, it's against your, your contracts. You shouldn't be doing it. We just had that talk. So when I get the phone call from her that I'm being told that Katie has done this, I called Matt.

I go, Matt, like, not cool. Like, is your wife actually out there doing this? We just had this talk. I swear, she didn't do it. She did not say that to Kiki. And I said, well, I don't want to hear a month from now that she actually did it because that's been her track record where she denies, denies, denies, and then all of a sudden she flips and there's an admission.

And that's exactly what's happened. Yeah. Is that she now is changing her story after denying it on camera. Because she denied the filming Shannon Bidore, right? Or did she not deny that? I can't remember. There's like five things. I know, but that's the problem.

And see, this is what the audience doesn't see. Yeah. That's what you see on camera. Just these five things on camera. There's so much going on behind the scenes that people are unaware of, of all the things that all of us as cast members are catching her and weird lies. I'm putting the dots together.

And we're all going, something is weird about this. Something's up with this. And then every time we turn around, like every day, we wake up to some new story that Katie's out in the press spinning. And we're like, what's going to be next? I mean, honestly, I always say that Real Housewives sometimes remind me of when I'd read Shakespeare in high school, but I was too dumb to read it so I'd get the cliff notes. And it's a lot of, and then this person whispered in this ear.

and the deception and then da-da-da-da-da. And because of this misinformation, this person then did this. And, like, it's like a Greek tragedy or a Shakespearean tragedy. Like, it is kind of like a weird... Like a game of telephone sort of thing. Yeah, game of telephone. But that's such a good analogy, because I have to tell you, and I've told her this, too, I feel like I'm suffering a bit of a loss because I really enjoyed Kay and Matt.

Yeah, I really did too. They were very cool people. We enjoyed hanging out with them, and it's just something that we never expected. even though the rest of the cast was trying to warn us. This is who she is. We're like, no, we've never experienced that. And I know Gretchen went out of her way to really defend her because she's like, she's never been that person to me.

Yeah. Now she's become that person. And they all were telling me, Gretchen, like, you need to be careful. Like, this is what she does. And I was like, no, like, I did not want to believe it. I did not want to believe it. What I don't understand is one of the things I have been very interested since I'm doing this podcast are stories where people have.

lies, elaborate lies, whether it's lying about cancer, or something Vicki, lying about there's like the cancer scam story of this girl and there was one that was a writer on Grey's Anatomy. And I'm always really fascinated

like when someone starts something, I always am like, when do you realize it's gone too far and now you don't know how to backtrack? But I think that's what happened. That's what you kind of see happen, at least for me as being Katie's friend. Because, and what's even weirder for me,

is that in this episode, like, I'm still in New Orleans, but she's on camera saying, oh, this is what really happened. And I'm like, wait, I'm like, it's like it's not the same timing of what happened for me when I'm watching it. What do you think the motivation was? Or do you think that she found herself exaggerating, sitting across from someone for attention to get them interested, to reel them in?

No, I think that she, I think that, I think twofold. I think, okay, so we know, I don't want to. say who she did this with, but there's cast members that she would call and be like, oh my God, I have this story, like every morning, like, oh, my God, this story, this story. I think she's online, reading stories all day long, talking to all these bloggers, gathering all this information. And I think that partially what's happening is she's taking part truth of what was talked about. Of what she read on Reddit or a DM or whatever.

I think that's what's happy. I think she's combining the two, whether it's knowingly or not. Yeah. I think she's combining two different stories together, and then when she's sitting in front of somebody, because at this time, she wasn't like, didn't hate Tamara, but let's be honest, when we were at dinner with her, she wasn't like praising Tamara either. So it's like, I don't know if she's just sitting in front of these bloggers going, Tamara's not a good person. And she's mixing up part of what I said with other things that she's reading on Reddit or people. Because if you go and look at any of the things that we're talking about naked wasted, I mean, the comments are not kind. They're like, Tamara was trying to sexually harass him, da, da, da. So I don't know she's reading comments on there that Gretchen probably was drugged, Rufie. I don't know. You know what I mean? Where it came from. I think she got caught

over-embellishing. Well, that's what I think. And I think to Heather's point, she was probably looking for the attention that I've got some piece of information. I want to facilitate a relationship with this media person. And get this person on my side. I think she probably, in studying housewives in the last couple years,

especially with New Jersey, where people actually, I don't know if they're in the payroll or what, but there was certain people that would obviously be very pro Teresa or very pro Melissa. And that's all they would, they weren't, they were unbiased, you know. And so, or they, sorry, they were very biased. They were very biased. They were very biased. They were very biased. They weren't unbiased. And so I think maybe in her being the new girl, she was like, let me befriend these people. So in reporting on the show and talking about the show. And this does happen when you're friendly with some of the housewives. I've been there

too you you are a little bit like well and covering it i'm not going to i'm going to be a little bias you know whatever so i think that might have been her goal of just like let me collect as many people as i can and and when you go to some of these people because there were so many but she they are maybe newer to this space and they're like i'm really good friends with a housewife Like it's very, very exciting. Right. You know, versus someone like me where I'm like, okay, I've been doing this for 10 years. I was Chelsea later before.

Like I've known everybody for years. And I'm like, yeah, you want to come on the show? Great. If you want to go on someone else's doesn't change my life, you know, whatever. But to someone like that, that's like a jewel, you know, to be like, oh, my God. And then their friends are like a little envious, you know, all that. So I think that kind of was her thing. And then in doing it.

She didn't expect that the research being done though. Yeah. that was going to come back. And it was going to get to Tamara that someone was out investigating the story. But she also didn't expect that a lot of these bloggers or these people were going to come out and call Katie out on her lives. And that's what's happened.

Like, I mean, you know, even just yesterday, another thing came out that somebody was like, oh, she's spinning this story in the press. And it's like every time we're turning around, there's some new blogger, like even the thing that happened with Tamara. Yeah. That blogger came out and said, Katie is straight up lying. Like, this did happen. She did call me.

So it's like, that's the part that's frustrating is the audience thinks we're all just ganging up on Katie and all going against Katie. But it's like she has strategically like done this to each and every cast member. And she's out spinning these really horrific stories about each cast member. And she's done it to every single one of us. Gina, Emily, Heather, Tamara, Shannon, now me. I'm just like, what the heck? Like, why is she doing this? And I kind of think that the intention wasn't all bad.

I think she got, you know, little girl who cried wolf. Like, I think it got where she was just here and there and, oh, isn't this some juicy scoop and isn't this? And then when she realizes, oh, shit. I'm getting caught for this. This exaggerated story is now going to be on camera and is causing major problems between two, you know, major cast members. and I'm at the center of it so I just can deny that I said it and then when she couldn't

you know and now we get someone reputable being like no that's what you said and like I'm not even on the cast you know with Kiki and like so yeah I don't think she sat down and was like all right no I do. How do I destroy the women in the seven of women's lives

I don't think that was it yeah. I think that she like is just out talking and like saying stuff that she may be heard or like I said that got mixed up between something she thought she heard and then also something she read. And then, unfortunately, because of that, and then when she realized she's getting, like, the girls are on to her, like, you're not going to get out of this one. I think that's when she was like, oh, crap, I got to come up with another reason. And then all of a sudden, she switched the blame to Slade and I are, like, secretly, like, plotting and

planning. And by the way, why did Slade get pulled into that? Like, that's so weird. And what did she say about you and Slade? That was the whole thing about her going, oh, he called Matt. Oh, called Matt. And I'm like, what? are you talking about that is not the conversation. She said that you and I were out trying to get this story out. Yeah, that we've been out telling all these people. So what she's trying to do is say that Kiki lied. Yeah, like, why do you want to even reflect that like not a great night?

Tam, right, exactly. And again, like I said, if that was a real story, I would have said that 17 years ago. I'm not trying to protect Tamara from a story like that. You understand what her plan was. The plan is is that if she's denying that she said it to Kiki. So she's trying to convince everyone that you and I are putting the story out. So Kiki heard it somewhere else. Kiki's lying.

Right, right, right. That's what she's trying to do. But here's the point. How in the world would Kiki know that Katie knew anything about it? Yeah. She could have named anyone if that was the case. Right. Of course it came from Katie.

Yeah. And this is actually something we should clear up right now. Because we've known you for a very, very long time. You know a lot of people in this business. Have you ever heard one time? that myself or Gretchen have called and tried to put out a story. No.

Have I ever, in the 20 years I've known you? No. This is the first time we've been on your show. Right. And, and you've never, ever heard me say, oh, Tamara, tried to look. We've never talked about naked wasted ever. I, like, forgot.

Answer, honestly. Like, you've ever heard that, ever. And we've been accused of that. Yeah. As when we left the network last time. We were accused of that by Tamara. That was her biggest thing. Oh, they're out leaking stories.

She's out leaking stories. Gretchen and Slater leaking stories. That's what... Were you accused of leaking back then? Oh, no. Tamara said I leaked every story. Tamara said that we were leaking stories. She told that to the network back in the day. I thought I remember as just a viewer, that it was just kind of like, somehow it bothered them that the other cast members that you guys did your whole engagement thing on the roof.

Yeah. Yeah. By the way, that was the story that I found out later from a... what was it called they were like with what magazine Life in Style or us I forget

from the West Coast Bureau Chief yes from the West Coast Bureau Chief this is late years later they're like you know Tamara's the one that came to us and like leaked that story about it was a fake engagement and all this and I was like really wow so it's just so frustrating to me

that like I was accused of all of this stuff and she's the one that was out doing it and then when you told me that she is already out leaking story for this season. You know, I want to say, I remember it, and I thought it was really pretty. The engagement. Will you? How did it go marry me? It was something like you saying. Time is now. The time is now. Get it on iTunes. Okay. You can get it on iTunes still. Yeah. And you have your radio show and you play, and you do cry.

Yeah. I did. They got me. I got him good. Just here's some more juice on that story is that I had attempted to plan a proposal for her, I think, on two different occasions. And she found out. I intercepted the phone because, like, something came up on his phone from production and said, like, let's talk about the ring. And I was like, what? And we have the same pass codes on our phone. And so I open it up and I'm like, is this guy, like, trying to propose to me?

And, like, I was having issues from my previous marriage, meaning, like, some, still some, like, struggles from that. Because you were married and divorced before you were engaged to Jeff. Yes, yes. And so, you know, and I talked about it on the show. like there was some financial things that I found out about my ex that I didn't know until in the marriage and whatnot. So I just had a lot of like anxiety around being back in a situation that had financial issues. And we talked about openly on the show at that time he was going

through some financial issues. So I was just like, I don't know if I'm ready to be married yet until you get these things worked out, you know? So when I found that out, I was just like, wait, what? You're trying to like propose to me? And so. Oh yeah. She messed up. So I messed up. I messed up twice. And then I mean, I intercepted twice. And then that season, sadly, Grayson got really sick and he was flown to New York and he was on life support and it just had had bad issues from the surgery that he had had. And I just remember, you know, being told by the doctors like, you need to say your goodbyes. Like, it was horrible. And I just remember sitting in that hospital room with him and I was like, you know what,

like life's too short. Like I can't let my past like affect me moving forward with this man. You know, I love him. He loves me. This is ridiculous. And that's why I wrote the song, The Times Now. Like, the Times Now, like, let's, let's do this. Let's not wait anymore. So you have been engaged for like 10 years. How long is it been? How long is it been? It might be more. It might be more. And at this point, we've been together 16 years. At this point, you have a beautiful daughter. You've guys been together 16 years, engaged for 10 or whatever it is. You have a double ring. You have a big diamond with like a very big band. So we're married. I mean, it seems like married. Now you feel what is. What is.

the reason. Is it still financial? Or is it because you're like, it's gone so well, we're going to do a, you know, what's the couple, Goldie Hawn? Yeah. I always say that. I've always referenced them. What is it? Because we did have a date on calendar. I ended up booking a film and we postponed because I went to Mexico for a month on that project. And then we came back and we had conversations about, you know, trying to replan it. And at that time, we said, we really want to have a baby. Yeah. Because I was like 37 or something at that. time. And so we were going through IVF, my fault, to go through the IVF process. And IVF is very expensive. I know. And we went through five rounds of it. So I just, I decided like, rather than

putting all this money into a big wedding, I wanted to put it into the IVF. At my time was ticking. And so we put it in the IVF. And then after Skyler, we had Skyler, obviously you're in mommy mode and you don't, you feel like crap for two years, you know, getting through the newborn stage and all that. And it really wasn't until just recently this year being back on the show and everybody asking or being like, are you going to get married or you can get married? And we're like, yeah, I mean, now would be a good time because I finally feel good. Skyler's of an age. We're like, you know, she could be in it. So it's never been about not getting married. And honestly, we're fine with it being like this too. So like it could go either way. I mean,

we're not sitting around right now. Like let's plan our wedding. You know what I mean? But if if something comes up where we're like, you know what? Let's go do the time is now. The time is now. Let's go do a wedding. Then we're not opposed to that either. And back in the day, like, even on the show coming back on the show where they like, would you guys ever consider doing a wedding on the show? I mean, we've been asked, like, you know.

We've been asked a couple different times if we would do it. Yeah, about just like wedding stuff. But like even back in the day, like I was on the show and I remember his mom asking about us getting married and we're like, we're not going to get married until all of our friends

within the LGBTQ plus community can get married. And like that was like our stance for a while too. It's like, you know, we feel like everybody should be able to be married if they're in love, you know? So there was, just, I don't know, it's just interesting because I don't, I don't think we look at each other is not, we call each other husband and wife, we've been together 16 years, we have a child

together. So I don't feel like a marriage license is going to make us feel like we're any more married or not. I mean, honestly, you guys are like a version of Spencer and Heidi too. Because everyone made fun of them. Right. Everyone thought they were the, they were like the villains. And now people are like, oh my God, this is like the, they've been together like 16 years. Yeah. He's, you know, a great husband and dad. They're super committed. He came down Gavin Newsom. Yeah. Oh, my God.

He's going after him. And he's, you know, really being a voice for everybody that lost something in the fires as well as just like the ultimate hype man husband. Yeah. And, you know, and I remember that early on when we were hanging out before iPhones were so good. Slade would bring a big, fucking huge camera around. Oh, yes, he would. He literally would. He was so sweet because I liked the photos not on the camera because they were ugly back.

then. The cameras are so much better now. But I would ask him to bring the big camera because we look better on the pictures. I know. I remember we all went to dinner one night. I think Mastro's ironically. And I think, yeah, it was like Courtney 6. Yes. That's right. You and me and yeah.

Yes. And we actually came from Heather DeBrow's book party with Terry. That's so funny. That was one of those. No offense. People do it. But it was like the book wasn't out. Yeah. It was one of those things like let's promote the book, which you should do anyway, pre-orders are important before, whatever. So I went to the book party and that was fun.

And that's, you know, and I didn't know, that was, I think, during the Cancer Brooks thing. And I remember Vicki's like, they're so mean to me. You have no idea what's going on. I don't know what the Brooks cancer thing. You know, so I'm like, what's going on? Then we go meet you guys for dinner. Yeah. Slade has this good camera.

Camera. Yeah, it was, I was like, oh, my God. That's hilarious. Yeah. There was the other time we went to a Christmas, like three Christmas parties in L.A. I don't know. We've been to a lot of events over the years. You know, always fun.

And it is one of those things that, yeah, when you see like, oh, my God, you know, you're from there from the beginning and you had these other girls. How did you feel when you saw Joe come to the party with Tamara? You know, the thing that was interesting about that scene is I really didn't care about Joe because as far as Joe, like, that's so old history. I don't care, whatever. Her and I had had a talk at BravoCon and I thought we were all good and everything was fine. the part that rubbed me the wrong way is it was obviously Tamara trying to cause issues. And the thing

that frustrates me is Tamara's out, you know, impressed saying, oh, Gretchen's so stuck in the past. She's just all about the past. She can't let anything go to, but yet she walks to the door with the past. I'm like, who is, who's holding on to the past here, you know? Like, it just, it obviously was to get my go, which it didn't work. And that's why I said in the episode, like, you're getting rusty here, because this isn't even getting my go. And, and the truth. Truth is, too, is Joe had been asking and trying to get on the show. And so it was like, come on, Joe. Like, really, you're going to walk in with my arch nemesis, like, of all the people. Right. And you can't blame if Joe wants to get back on the show. You got to be in the mix.

So it's like, I don't know about that. But it's like the fact that, but again, and her and I actually kind of got in a fight about that because she was like, you called me desperate on a podcast. And I go, well, I feel like you are desperate. Like, you're literally calling production. I didn't have to call production. They called me. I said no three times. Like, you're calling trying to get on the show, and I'm not. Like, you're calling all the housewives trying to hang out with them when you're not even friends with them. You're walking in the door with Tamara. Like, why are you trying so hard?

I didn't have to even try. Like, so we got in a fight. Actually, on camera, they didn't show it, but it was funny. So why this time did you say yes at this point in your lives? I think there was a lot that went into the decision. I mean, obviously, it was months of negotiations and talking through it. And even when Alex Baskin first called me, I was just like, yeah. I don't know. And he's like, listen, he's like, just take the meeting with the execs when they're in

town. They're in town a couple weeks from now. Just take the meeting. Just hear what they have to say. So I was like, okay, you know, I'll do that. I'll hear him out. So, and it was funny because every time I would say no, Alex would just be like, okay, okay, I respect that. But then like two days later, he'd be calling me again. I was like, gosh, and the third time that he called me, I was like, you really want me back on the show. I was like, what is up? And so, and so, and so, really when it came down to it, I think I just said to say, look, if there's any time to come back to the show, now probably would be the optimal time because I had organic real relationships with girls in the cast. I had become friendly with Katie. I had been friends with Jen now for a couple of years. He'd known Ryan for 20 years because they both worked back in the real estate business. Who's the nicest guy, by the way? The nicest guy ever. 20 years. He was my rep at Countrywide Mortgage. I've known him

forever. Shannon and I reconnected at an event and so her and I were back talking and being good. I've known Heather for years. I've known Emily for years. The only one I actually really didn't know was Gina. But we would always comment on each other's Instagram. We're supportive.

So I was like, you know what? If there was a time to come back, it probably would be now where I actually have real organic friendships with these girls. And so I, and that's really why I came on. Everyone's like, oh, you came on to like do this thing with Tamara. I'm like, no, I actually really didn't. As a matter of fact, I had that specific talk with Alex of like, I don't want to come on and just have this like full out thing with Tamara. Like that's not my

intent. And he's like, that's not our intent either. We just have to see where it goes. And unfortunately, that's where it goes because, and this is the thing. This is another thing that I really like want to address about what's being said in the press. What frustrates me is I didn't come back with a vengeance for Tamara. I didn't any of this. But everybody has to understand when Tamara starts repeating the same patterns as she always does and starts saying the same things and starts playing the like, feel sorry for me, feel bad for me, of course it's going to trigger me. Of course it's going to make me bring things up. And she's been doing the same thing for the last 15 years. So it wasn't even just about me anymore. She had done it to Jen. She had done it to

Ryan. She had done it to Shannon. She had done it to her friend Heather. She had done it again and again and again and again, to everyone. So it was like, I just was simply stating that. I was like, you don't learn. You don't learn your lesson. You literally make up lies and then you get to a point where you get sued for your lies and you still do it. Like you still go on and talk shit about people. She thinks she's so clever, by the way. She shows all her. They're always talking about me. Yes, because you're doing the most stupid egregious things on the show. Of course we're talking about you. You don't think we see the pattern. Yeah. You don't think we see that you, your first husband called you out for cheating on him, you got caught cheating on Simon, then you're with Eddie, then there's

articles that come out about you having a fling while you're with Eddie, but you're going to point your finger at Jen and go, oh, you're the cheater, you're the cheater. You know, oh, you're the deadbeat dad. Well, your kids are the ones that came out and said you were the monster mom. Not your kid. Not mine. So there's this deflection. Every time she points her finger, it's because she herself is going to do it.

Oh, you're the ones leaking stories. But then she wants to say anytime there's a microphone in front of me, I'm talking about her. Yes, because people ask me about all the stuff that you've done to me over the years. So I'm going to respond to the questions I'm getting asked. Speaking of which, the Jen, um, fat photo thing, I will say, was kind of funny. Just in that she's just like, like, major shit's going down and Jen's like, and if we're just being honest, can I ask about the fat photo? It was like, I thought it was funny. Yeah.

Her delivery of that was funny. You know, and she is very, I think she's really likable. Oh, she's the best. She is nice to look at. She is very attractive. Beautiful, yeah. And, you know, it's funny because, you know, it's like, oh, my God, she wanted to be me. She started to working out.

She got hair extensive. She got lip filler. I'm like, well, that's every woman, not just in Newport, but every woman. Yes, exactly. You get divorced. You have a fucking glow up. But by the way, you know, you want to look better. It's the most narcissistic thing to say.

And Tamara has said that about everybody, by the way. She said Lizzie wanted to be her. She said I wanted to be her. Now it's a sin. You're obsessed with her. Lizzie's obsessed with her. We're all obsessed with her and we all want to be Tamara. Newsflash, nobody wants to be you, Tamara. Like, nobody wants to be you. It's ridiculous that she even makes those claims. And it really is such a narcissistic thing to say. And, you know, the audience in the comments at least doesn't really seem to be very sympathetic to blaming poor, cruel behavior on a friend suffering with cancer. And people brought up, you know, well, Kyle's been Teddy's friend for many years, the point that Teddy lived with her. after they separated she and her husband and Kyle's never, you know, done anything, you know,

tried to, we don't know. No, we also don't know because we're there filming now, so we don't know what Teddy's, Kyle's going through, but I'm just saying with that. And, you know, I saw in an interview, this is my recollection, that Tamara even was saying things about her podcast partner, like, you know, it's really sad. She can't remember things. She can't, she doesn't remember she said, when do you start filming? And I'm like, you know, Teddy, we already finished, you know, wrapping up. And I remember watching that and thinking to myself, well, if I had a podcast with someone in which you have to be sharp and remember things and whatever, even if the story was true, I don't think I would share it. Why would you share about your partner possibly having trouble

grasping at words? Because she's under cancer treatment. She's planning a takeover. Well, who knows? I don't know, but I just thought. that's interesting. That could be not bright or it could be strategic or whatever or not cool or whatever. Because she is still doing the show and when I see it it seems like she's

you know keeping up her work as far as talking about these shows and everything Teddy and still doing everything that she's to do and everybody obviously wants her to recover and succeed as a mom. See and that's the thing. I don't think anybody didn't have compassion for what Tamara was and I hate to even say

what Tamara was going through because really it's what Teddy's going through. It's not what Tamara's growing through. Tamara happens to be a good friend of Teddy's, and I understand that it could affect her. But I'm sorry, when Jeff was going through cancer, I wasn't an asshole. When his son died, he wasn't an asshole.

Like, it doesn't give you free reign to still be an asshole and be a bad person. And that's the point that everyone is angry about online. It's like she always has an excuse for her behavior. It's like, oh, I was horrible to Shannon because I'm on the spectrum. Oh, I was mad to you. I mean, you even see it on one episode with me. Oh, I was treating you that way because I was in a bad marriage with Simon.

Oh, I was this because Eddie had a heart thing. Oh, I would, all of the stuff, she always has an excuse. And Simon suffered going through cancer too. And here's the thing. All those things might be true that those people are going through those things. Nobody's doubting that any of that is true. It's that she uses all of those things as excuses for her behavior. And that's why I went out and made that post.

And I just said, look, at the end of the day, like, because she was like, oh, God forbid you ever have to go through what I've gone through and deal with the pain and depression I'm going through. I'm like, I, what are you talking about? Like, I am, I know exactly what that feels like. My P.S, like, do you remember, my fiancé died. His son died. Like, how dare you say something like that, you know? Like, that is so far-fetched. You see the pattern, right?

The pattern to me is like reputation management. The minute she gets called out again for her behavior, oh, I'm going to go get baptized now. So I don't just go get baptized. I'm going to find an empty swimming pool of my buddy's listing at a hotel. No, it was at a hotel. It was at a hotel. It was at the Bay Club.

I said, why didn't they do it at someone's house? It was at the Belboa Bay Club. Is that the Bell Boa Bay Club? Yeah. And it's just like. Because the local pastors also, you know. I was like, you see like the chair, you know, for handicapped people to get down in. And then like I saw like the five feet, the three feet.

And it was like, I don't know. I think I would have had it at someone's house. I would think I would have gone into Vicki's Grotto, but whatever. But we've had people in that circle say, well, she did it because she said that no one would challenge her faith. And that now all of a sudden she's renewed and she's a new person. I actually was told that she said that she wanted to do that because all of the Christians are sheep and they'll just believe in. anything. I was like, and it was one of her close friends. But anyways, but the point is, is that, you know, and like even this season, she's like, oh, you're talking about the past.

Tamara, you are literally in therapy talking about your past and about all the things that cause you trauma. So I'm not allowed to talk about the things that caused me trauma. You just happen to be one of the people that caused me a lot of trauma. So why are you allowed to talk about your past, but I'm not. I'm just out of line for talking about it. That's the connection. You're not the only one she causes trauma to you. Causes trauma to everyone. Yeah, I really wonder, yeah, it's, you know, it is very interesting, you know, in the history of the show of when it first started, it was just, you know, following families and really like getting a peek inside of their home, which I understand why it has become more than that because we could look at on our phone on lots of different families in their home now. So it's like we do need to see the interaction. between the women and, and even though it's changed, I'm still intrigued. I'm never going to stop

watching your show. Like, I'm very intrigued just because I, you know, have watched all these years, know all you guys. But, you know, it was the moment in my opinion that she chose to throw the drink that changed the trajectory. And I think that, I don't know if that happened before. Give me another, you know, juicy scoop history person, but like, I don't know if that happened before or after the flip of the table. I think it happened before. I think it was before. Yeah. Yeah. And then the flip of the table happened. And then it was like, okay, now this is our women's version of like football or whatever. And, you know, and we get... We have the

ante almost. Yeah. Like that kind of a thing. Yeah. And so, you know, you wonder like what is the real motivation or when you like step out of it and you've done it for so long. when I think because some of you have been not you consistently you've been on a lot of years but you had this big chunk but when I think of like a Jacks Taylor a Tamara when it's like almost coming on a third of your life

you know that you bet on the care like I do think it gets to a place where you're not thinking about real life anymore like it's almost like that's why I think it's really a fact that's why I think it's like a fascinating study besides being entertaining and I'm not making excuses

for anyone I just think it like talking about it, I do think it's kind of fascinating. Well, and what's frustrating to me as, you know, just as a viewer and also a cast member that was on half a decade is that, you know, I constantly see people like Tamara out in the press going, oh, I'm just, you know, what else would you get if I didn't do this? And I'm the villain. And then she said even on Watch What Happens Life, she's like, well, I just did that just for TV. And it's like, to me, it's insulting to me when I'm coming on there and really giving like

my real life and really just. just being me and I'm not trying to like up the ante for something you know like even that scene like with um with Shannon this season like that wasn't me like plotting and planning behind the scenes came to your head of like well honestly like if you're going to say filming someone is illegal well so is getting a DUI and I still chose to be friends with you which was like and you did say it in the moment and you know it wasn't like and it wasn't a great thing to say because I love Shannon she's my friend but like at the end of the day it was a real authentic moment and so for me I would like that, you know, these reality shows actually still be that.

And so it's hard when you're filming with people that are just like, oh, I just got to give, you know, this whole, like thing. And it's like they're willing to say and do anything for this moment. And it's like, I think we can actually have a lot of moments without trying to like have this moment or like make shit up about people or go erect their life. That's the problem. Like that's just sometimes for me, you're taking it too far. Those people are profiting off the hardship of others. Right. Manufacturing things that wreck lives, get them canceled, get them fired, wreck marriages, and they're profiting from it. As the audience, we don't want that, you know.

I love the show. I think it's juicy. It is juicy. This season keeps getting better. It's pretty juicy. And every season has a different thing. Sometimes there's a great cast and it's really just funny, silly shit. Sometimes someone breaks up with their husband and the girls gather around.

And sometimes it's this too. And that's what makes it really good reality TV. And I'm glad that you guys are back. I'm glad you guys finally came here. Yeah, right? And you guys got to stay tuned for next week because it's even, like, that's a whole thing again. Like, I think that we're, because we go through the lie detector test. So I think it's going to be a whole other round of like, wait, what?

Like the story just keeps changing every single week. And even us as cast members were like trying to follow the story because we're like, wait, what happened now? This is happening. And I think that's what's fun about this season in particular is, I think. I think, you know, a lot of seasons have, like, a linear story all throughout the season. And I think every single week there's, like, a new story going on. Because you're really, like, interesting. Yeah.

So, obviously, it's on Bravo. Yep. It airs every Thursday night. At 9 p.m. Also on Peacock, the greatest invention ever, in my opinion. Peacock, you can watch it the next day, and there's sometimes extended scenes. There's the after show. Yeah.

And I think that's on Bravo, too, but I like the after shows. And, of course, follow Gretchen, Rossi. Now, do you not, you probably don't have, you don't have Instagram, do you? Not really. I mean, he does, but he doesn't really like post it. So it's Gretchen Rossi, you have, you know, whatever, two million people following. What? Yeah, it's just, just Gretchen Rossi.

Yeah. And, you know, and your Instagram is really fun and really fun to watch and great, you know, give great tips and all that. My wife is cute. Yes. And she's cute. I have fun. Yeah. I love all my fans on. Thank you so much for coming.

I really appreciate it. Thanks for having us. We'll see you in another 20 years. Yeah, exactly. Well, you guys, there's so much more juicy stuff coming on. I've got another great interview coming later on this week that you will die over with Real Housewives of Miami. And she reveals stuff that you wouldn't believe. All of this is leaning up to the greatest night ever, which will be November 14th, the Friday of Brabocon in Las Vegas. tickets are getting up there so there are still some left get them for your friends come see my show

as you know i do not hold anything back i'm saving so much juice brandy and julie will be there along with special guests so i hope you get that at heather macdallan dot net and that's also where you can join my patreon and everything else don't forget to subscribe to my youtubes as well all is there at hathamcdallon dot net