Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Head of Scientology’s Niece, Jenna Miscavige Tells All

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Nick Reiner had a diagnosis before the murders if Rob and Michele Reiner. Real Housewives are life coaches and lesbians. Then I talked to Jenna Miscavige who not only escaped Scientology but her uncle, David Miscavige is the leader of the church. What she shares is shocking. I thought I knew everything about this cult but I did not. From lack of education, separation from parents and child labor, Jenna only knew it to be her life until she got out. So juicy. Enjoy! Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription plus free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com and use promo code JUICYSCOOP Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people really love, beautiful, timeless pieces that they'll wear for years. That's why I am going with quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. Find gifts so good, you'll want to keep them with quince. Go to quince.com slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada. a two. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash juicy. Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and sip. Play. Post. Taste. View and enjoy. Via rail. Love the way. Heather McDonald has got the juices.

Scoop when you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know she talks Hollywood Tales for real life Mr. Sigmund Serial Data and Serial Sister, you'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Whoop, woo. Hannah McDonald's Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well, I have a great brand new show for you today. A super juicy interview is going to come after I get into a few hot topics and updates with the niece of the head of Scientology. Yeah, it's a real juicy one. First, a couple updates. So we now know that Nick Rob Reiner's son, who is being held for the murders

of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle Reiner, who is also of photographer and quite a call for accomplished singer, he has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. And in that diagnosis of schizophrenia, they had changed his medication around, which they thought was going to work, it was not working. Also, there's been reports that Rob Reiner did share with friends, that he was very afraid of him. Also, there was talk that there were people who did want to call the cops on Nick, being that his behavior was so bizarre at Conan O'Brien's party. But according to page six, he didn't want to do that. He didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it. Maybe at the request of Rob, I don't know. Also, that he was either not living in the guest house or was

not being kicked out of the guest house, something to that effect. But like I said before, I think that there, besides him going through his mental situation, I think there was probably some type of finality in some type of conversation. I don't know that would have set him off. We will never really know, even if he comes to, I don't know that he'll ever really tell us the steps of what happened. But, you know, it's just very disturbing and his family has spoken out and thank everyone for the outpouring.

that's what we are with the with the schizophrenia and he was in a very expensive place just prior to what happened which was $70,000 a month then the diagnosis of schizophrenia the change of medication so if they are going for a not guilty by reason of insanity but then he gets put away I don't know that people ever get put away for life so if that is the case I think then in you know 10 years, 15 years, maybe he'll be evaluated again. But I'm guessing that is what they're going to go for. They have the Karen Reed famed former attorney. And I think that there's some definite valid points that he was absolutely not in his right state of mind and was in fact insane when he committed these crimes. So there we go. Okay, switching gears to some light fun. A little update on real housewife

of Beverly Hills. Well, finally, Kyle has come even more clean than she did before about her former relationship with this person, doesn't say Morgan Wade, and that they have this speed dating kind of a party that Bose throws, which was very reminiscent of Patty Stanger's million-dollar matchmaker. To one point, Bose goes, just reminding you guys, you're halfway through your conversation. Like, I remember those type of things. And one of my friends was there, Ben Glebe comedian. And I was like, how the heck did this happen? I do believe he was single at the time. So that part was real. It doesn't seem like there was any great matchmaking. But it was pretty fun. And they are all single, except for Bose and this new girl, Amanda, who is a money

manifestation life coach for women. And has a book, Rich A.F. And I find her likable. I think she's like positive and everything, but she starts to tell Doreet, you know, what she should be doing as she's going through this divorce with PK, and she doesn't know where the money is, and she doesn't know what's going on with their retirement. And Bose, being the businesswoman that she is like, well, your job is to help women with finances. What do you think she should do, Amanda, since you're like the life coach of finances? And she's like, well, I think the biggest thing that you need to do to figure out, Doreet, yes, I'd have to figure out a lot of things. P.K. is one minute he's paying the mortgage. The next, he's not. And it's very confusing. And I don't know,

but my name is on everything, but I don't know where all those accounts are. And then Boses like, so Amanda, like, what's the next thing she should do? Well, the next thing that you should do is you need to manifest where you want to see yourself financially after PK. Who is Dorete in a year? That's what you need to do. And Bose is like, I mean, Boz's BS meter was just off. You know, Amanda did nothing wrong. What she's saying is good advice, but it just isn't real financial advice. There wasn't anything like, okay, this is first what you need to do is you need to get a letter from your attorney stating that you need to do this.

Then you need to get a forensic accountant and you have to do it an international one. And I actually have a great one I can recommend. Like something, like that's what Bose was wanting like an answer. but it's very, very entertaining and juicy at that. Oh, and then that's when Kyle goes. I might go Brad, I might go Angelina. So, you know, I, we'll see. My prediction is Kyle ends up dating a man next.

And that's just my prediction, but we'll see. Then we hop over to Real House of Salt Lake City, which was really fun. They're in Greece. And to just continue with the lesbian housewife theme, they ask, oh, have you ever kissed a girl? And Bronwyn is like, I have. I have kissed a girl and I've enjoyed it. And they're like, how many? She's like, more than one. And she's like, oh, well, have you done more than kissing? I may have. And then Brittany is like, well, I know how many guys I've kissed. And they're like, how many? She's like, 67. So I was like, okay, so this like,

45-year-old woman has been like keeping along of everyone that she's hooked up with just for kissing. And I just want to say back in the day in college, we had our last senior year of college in my sorority house, we had a scam board, which meant kissing or more. But if you kiss somebody, you would be like, put the date and the name and how many people got, how many people did you hook up with before the end of graduation? And I won. I won. And then I brought that scamboard home. to my parents' house. And my dad was like, this is great. This is the only thing you've ever won in your life. And he thought it was the funniest thing. I was very proud of it. So I can relate to Brittany. Why the heck not? But Brittany goes, where's, no, sorry, Bronwyn goes, where is Whitney in this

conversation of, you know, kissing girls? And now listen, we are ending 2025. This has been a crazier. But what we have not had in the real housewife franchise is a real lesbian love relationship, like a, not a makeout in front of the cameras and a jacuzzi, not a one-time situation like they had in Real Housewives of Atlanta with that guy with his huge boner, I forgot his name, not where a couple of them hooked up with them, whatever. No, I'm talking, two girls are like, it's you. I'm into just you. I'm into just you. And I'm not saying it's going to be Bronwyn and Whitney, but I'm just saying it's something that hasn't happened yet. And I feel like 2026 is the year that something like that might happen.

When I was in the Groundling, there was, this is a long time ago, there were two girls in the Sunday show that came in straight and went out gay. And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. Also, remember when I was talking with Chris last Thursday about those really funny VHS dating tapes and if they're real or not. And I said it reminds me of how we were taught to do funny characters for the groundlings and how you do a backstory and everything. So my girl, friend of the show, Emmy Award winning a comedic actress, the mom on Goldbergs, Wendy, um, McClendon Covey, my friend, she loves to listen to Juicy Scoop, even when she's not on it. And she said,

she left me a voice message and she said, Heather, you're right. They are all people from the groundlings. I know them. They're comedic actors. You're completely right. It was the groundlings people. And I am like, wow, you know, sometimes it's just amazing to be right all the time. It's just sometimes just chilling for everybody involved. Okay, getting, before we get to our interview, I did want to do a little update. For those of you that are subscribed and enjoying juicy crimes. Thank you so much. We love doing it. And there's a little update on the juicy crime from last week. Brian Walshie was convicted of killing his wife, who went missing. Last year seen was New Year's Eve two years ago. He was convicted and he got life. So there was a little

update there. And before we get into our Scientology episode with Jenna Ms.cavage, I wanted to say there was a really weird story that came out that Riley Kino, who is the, let me see, yes, she would be the granddaughter of Elvis, daughter and granddaughter of Priscilla Presley, and she's a really good actress. She's like 36 or 38. There was some weird lawsuit filed, and within the lawsuit that was like basically like managers suing her for some money thing, it was revealed that she, in fact, donated her eggs to John Tarvolta and his now late wife when they had their child who was now 13, that she's the biological mother of that child. It was so weird.

She has since denied it. I don't even know. I tried to read the article. I didn't know why that was even brought up. But, you know, for a day or so, I was like, if this is real, that is so interesting. and if that had anything to do with the Scientology world. When you listen to this interview right now, it's very interesting how they,

according to Jenna, who was raised in it, how they see parental relationships and procreation and all of it. So I hope you have a great Christmas. And during the holiday, we will be dropping fresh and new content and episodes only on Patreon.

so make sure that you're part of Patreon, you go to Heather MacDonald.net, click on Patreon, join it, change your life, and get ready for the new year. Please welcome my guest now. Thank you. Well, I'm very excited to talk to our guest because Scientology is something that we have been fascinated about, especially on Juicy Scoop for years. And today's, my guest, really knows everything about it. Welcome, Jenna Miscavage. Did I say it wrong again? Miskavage. No, Miscavage.

Miscavage. Yeah, it's like savage. Jenna, Miscavage. You have shared a lot about your life. You have written a book. And let's just really start from the beginning of this journey that you've had. What was your family's history with the religion? So both of my parents got into Scientology as kids.

their parents became involved. And then so by the time I came along, they were already Scientologists, but there's different levels of Scientology. And so just before I turned two, they joined Scientology's like most dedicated military-esque group called the C-organization, C-org. And it's just basically where people wear military uniforms, they have ranks and they live communally. They eat communally and you sign one billion year contracts, dedicating your soul lifetime after lifetime to Scientology. And, you know, there's just like, like you're not

allowed to have sex before you're married. You're actually not allowed to have kids that they already had me. And previously you were allowed to have kids in this group. But then shortly after that rule changed. And so you work like 100 hour weeks with little to no time off. And, um, Yeah, basically you're, you make 50 bucks a week. So you dedicate your whole life, your whole being to this organization. So when you were to approximately what year was this? Uh, 1986. So were they on the actual ship working on the ship or were they, what were they doing?

So it was not actually a ship, but previously like the seorog was created on an actual ship. They just had moved to land. So that's why it was called the seor. And this was in L.A. Oh, so this is all in L.A. So they didn't want them, they didn't want these people at this level where they're just working, you know, almost like indentured slavery to have kids because then because then someone would have to take care of the kids that would take away from them dedicating so many work hours. So how did it work? Like where did you guys live and who did take care of you?

So it was not only that they, that somebody would have to take care of us, but I think. was also seen as a distraction to our parents. And also like a maybe an alternate place of loyalty, you know, that wasn't just to Scientology. But so when my parents were at work during the day, up until I was six, I would like go to this nursery where we would just like, I don't know, they would teach us stuff. And we would learn like ABCs at first. But we, our parents would come, at first they would come home for about an hour. Like we would meet them at the apartment. for about an hour and then go back to work and then they would come home at night so we only saw them for like an hour a day really and then what kind of work were they doing so my mom was in a

department where she basically like there was a cruise ship that scientology was building where they could do like special Scientology counseling on there and so she was like getting the money raised for this from Scientologist. She was literally like doing the space plans, the architecture work. She was like getting that done. In fact, she actually left like before I was four to go do that. So I was just with my dad. And my dad worked in their computer department where, you know, it's kind of like IT, but it's like they have their own internal computer system. So that's where he worked at that time. And were you an only child? No, I had a brother. I actually have two brothers. brothers, but my one, they were twins and my mom took one brother and the dad took the other

brother. It's all fucked up and weird. When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things people really love beautiful, timeless pieces that they'll wear for years. That's why I am going with quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. You guys know I have loved. quince for years, because every piece is made with not only premium materials, but made from ethical, trusted factories, and priced far below what other luxury brands charge. And the craftsmanship really shows in every detail, the stitching, the fit, the drape. I absolutely love my quince silk blouses and their cashmere sweaters. I got a beautiful long silk skirt that looks

just so great with boots. Find gifts so good, you'll want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.com slash juicy for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash juicy to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash juicy. Maybe it's just a phase you're going through. You'll get over it. I can't help you with that. The next appointment is in six months. you're not alone Finding mental health support shouldn't leave you feeling more lost

at CAMH we know how frustrating it can be trying to access care we're working to build a future where the path to support is clear and every step forward feels like progress not another wrong turn

visit camh.ca to help us forge a better path for mental health care wait when did that have so let's okay so now you're like so when you're are you the oldest or younger younger yeah they're eight years older than me okay so when so you're born the boys are they

join the weird so are they going they're not going to regular school they're going to regular school at eight no they're not yeah they're going to like Scientology school place in LA like not even a school it's just like it's like a place where you work and do school a little bit so then when did your parents split up oh no no so sorry, they're my mom's kids from a previous marriage before I was even born. So my parents, my parents will only split up a few years ago. Oh, well, then when you said the twins, one took one and one took, I'm confused then. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Oh, so you only had one living with you. Yes, exactly. And she never saw the other one? She did when we were in L.A. She did. But it was like his mom and dad were his mom and dad and my mom. and dad were the other ones mom and dad and did that um did the first husband was he involved in scientology yes oh so so so they still were scientologists even though yes definitely and did the boy

so would the brothers the twins see each other and and play with each other and stuff they did when we were in l.a but before that you know there were several years where they didn't um but yeah when they're back in LA. It was like they were brothers again and it was like I was like meeting this new brother that I never even knew about. And were they identical? No, they don't even look like brothers. Oh. That is so crazy. Yeah. What is their relationship like now? To each other. Yeah. I think they get along great now. And are they still Scientologists? No, they're not in Scientology. No. Okay. My immediate family's all out of Scientology. Okay, so let's go back to, okay, so now you're a little girl. They're working these crazy hours. You go to this little Scientology school. And, okay, then where are we in

life? So when I turn six, I go to basically like Hemet in Riverside and I get put at this Scientology boarding school where it's like 15 minutes away from where my parents work, but now I live there. I live in like a dorm with seven other girls. It's connected to a bat, like one bathroom, then seven other girls. And, you know, we wear uniforms. We're all divided into like units and we like salute like, you know, every morning when we wake up, we go to a muster and it's like unit one report, all present and accounted for, sir. And so basically like 30 hours a week we're doing like manual labor like groundswork, whether it's rock hauling, gardening, planting trees, painting. all that sort of thing

and then after lunch we are doing like we're doing studies but we don't have grades it's just like kids who are like six years old to 16 years old all in the same classroom and we're doing these like

self-led things where we like check off a list it's called the check sheet we check off each thing we do and then in the evening we're doing Scientology studies so you know we're up at 6.30 a.m. and then our studies end at 9 p.m.

You know I've always really been fascinated about the weird education of it. Because when I've talked to people and stuff, I'm like, you know, as much as we say psychology is, you know, weird and strange, the people that come out of it, whether it's Leah Remini, that's good actress, good writer, you know, good vocabulary, good communicator, they're able to have businesses, you know, and it makes an and work and it makes you wonder like well is traditional education like really that important if you can communicate and read and write like you know i mean did you learn algebra you know all the things that we're required to learn in regular school that we do say do we need algebra do we even

need to learn a second language with like you know google translate and things like that so i'm kind of like i do think it's you know strange and weird that you didn't have the experience of being a cheerleader or doing a sport but like the education part doesn't seem do you what do you think do you think it's like the no I hear what you're saying and I and I can totally like I totally get it in Scientology we were very much like very literate like we were we were taught to read a lot and to look up the meanings of words obsessively the problem really comes when like I was isolated from the whole world. Like I was in this. So I didn't know about like civics. I didn't know any of my rights. I got it. No history, no like American history. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, everything that Scientology

taught me was was all I ever had access to. Right. So on one hand, yes, very literate. On the other hand, I was like a weirdo. Yeah. And was afraid of people. And, you know, beyond just the education. part of school. I mean, we didn't learn things like science and physics or even about our bodies, like what parts do what and that sort of thing. And so like later coming out of Scientology, becoming a mom and other things like you don't really know anything. So things like Yeah, got it. Especially when you're taught that you're not a body. You're a spiritual being and your body is like a piece of meat that you basically, when that body dies, you're going to a new one. So it's all sort of like part of devaluing who you are as like a person and taking

care of yourself. And so it winds up being okay if you work as a slave for hundreds of hours because you don't really know anything about yourself or the world. Yes, you guys could read it right. You're good communicators. But that because they wanted you to live this world of this is all there is, then they, you didn't really know about American history. or science or anything which that is so crazy or civics like I didn't know anything about our government or my rights you know I didn't I didn't know like you know what was a wrong way to be treated what was a right way because remember at the same time it's not like we're living in a home with our parents so it's not like we're getting that information from anywhere else we're at this ranch

seven days a week well one day we do go to our parents apartment and you know they come home at midnight and then we're leaving their apartment again by like 11 a.m. the next morning. Did you feel like you even like had a mom or knew who she was or anything? I did, but I constantly missed my parents. Like I constantly was, especially when I was younger, later on, I just kind of got used to it. I think that when you live a life with your mom and your dad and then it gets taken away, it's a lot different than when you just don't have them around. I think that you know what you're missing when that happens, and it's a lot sadder where I think that in my case, I just didn't have it.

So it sucked. I felt this like yearning and I like wanted to be with them. And my goal was if I finished all my studies at this boarding school, then I could work at the base with them. And so that was always my goal was to get to the base so I could see them every day. So yeah, I definitely missed them. and I felt like I knew them just as much as I knew anybody, anybody else, really. And so did you guys like have, celebrate like Thanksgiving or Christmas or anything like that?

So like on Thanksgiving, we would have like a little bit longer of a meal at the, at the boarding school. And that was pretty much it. At Christmas, we would do a little bit more. Like we would go to the base where our parents were and there would be like a show. and then we would usually have one day off. That was when I was a kid. Later on, like, it would be like Christmas would get canceled because, like, everyone was in trouble.

Nobody was doing good enough. But, yeah, when I was a kid, we did have Christmas. We would have, like, a day off together. So Christmas would be canceled. You mean at the boarding school or whatever? Well, I left the boarding school when I was 12. So it would be past when I was 12 when I was like a regular Scientology worker from when I was 12 until I was 22.

And that's kind of the time when Christmas would get canceled. And so did you even know what Christmas was celebrating? Like, did you understand what Christianity was? I knew it was a religion, but I mostly thought of it. Like Christmas was just a celebration that we got. And I was like, do not be questioning this. You take what you get. This is the highlight of your year.

Yeah. Oh, my God. And so now you're 12. And now you don't, now you're just, like, working. And what's your job at 12? So when I'm 12, I get sent to Clearwater, Florida. And I have, like, a few jobs. So part of the time I'm just doing Scientology studies all the time.

Like, I'm learning even how to use their, like, e-meter. I don't know if you've seen that. Oh, yeah, that's like the lie detector looking thing. Yeah. I have one somewhere around here. Okay. Yeah. So I'm, like, learning how to do that.

And what is that really? It's just, I mean, is it just like, yeah, somehow it just tied up to your nerves. And so if you get nervous, like a lie detector, you could say you're not telling the truth to somebody or what? So basically it sends like the tiniest current, like you're holding two cans. So like, and the cans are attached to the emeter. So it sends a current like through your body out through the other hand back into the e-meter. And it's just if there's a, if there's an interruption in this current, whether it's from body movement or you getting tens or something, it shows up on the e-meter dial. And that's just, they're interpreting it to mean

that that e-meter reaction, that needle reaction is from your mind. They believe that your mind influences the current that's going through your body. And so when they ask a question and it influences the current, they're like, ah, we've got you. What are you thinking about? So like at this time, like I just remember seeing the Dianetics commercials everywhere. One billion, book sold and I and it was like earth exploding and as a little kid I first thought it was a diet book dietetics like a diet book and then I was always just like yeah what is this you know it was just like oh how people like create such a better life for themselves and you know now that we've learned more it's like that that whole what was that book what it was just it was just a history of

Scientology and how to make your life better. And they really didn't sell a billion books, right? Well, when they forced Scientologists to buy them over and over again, oh, okay. And also, or when they just, like, give them away. Or, because they have their own printing presses. They can, so I think they say that's how many are printed. So they have their own printing presses.

They can print however fucking many books they want to. Right. But Scientology actually, I mean, sorry, Dianetics was before Scientology existed. And it was basically about how certain illnesses or certain bad things you had gone, fears or whatever, it basically taught people that it was because of painful incidents that had happened in the past, specifically things that were said during those painful moments of unconsciousness and that those past things were controlling, were making you sick now. but basically Dianetics then turned into Scientology when when basically

they would have people recall these moments of pain and unconsciousness and then they would recall things from a past life so so then it became you were a spirit because if you had a past life you had to have

you know you had to be a spiritual being and then that's where it sort of started going into a religion and psychology then grew from there into what it is now so so

dynetics is like their book one that's what they call it and so how is david your uncle he's my dad's brother okay and how so tell me how that came where he he got to be the head of the church so i was really little when this all happened like two so i wasn't any part of it but from what i understand Elron Hubbard died and there was a dude who was like working with him a couple and they were sort of all like set to be in charge and my uncle like outmaneuvered them and like tricked people and he became the boss because he went for it pretty much. I don't know. I don't know all this specific. But then did that also elevate your dad's position being that they were brothers? Well, my dad had only just come back into Scientology at that time.

Like he had grown up in it, but he came back into the Seorg. So, yeah, I guess at that point, like my dad did become a senior executive. So did my mom. But, and so, yes, it was, but it wasn't like an automatic promotion. Like in Scientology, they don't really care about your family. They think that you're all spiritual beings. So it wasn't an automatic promotion. It was also like they were the people.

who had grown up with and worked with my uncle. So it's almost like he's putting his confidants or friends or like high school buddies in charge as well. And okay, so now you're like 12 working and all that. And were you, what was your relationship with like, so you're in near like the LA Hollywood scene when that starts to kind of become more popular like in the 90s and stuff with like a Christy Alley and John Travolta Christy Allie yeah Christy Alley

John Travolta all those Jenna Elfman like all those people where are you in that world you're still in Florida and they're here or what's happening yeah so I was in Florida and those people are mostly in L.A but there actually are so in Florida and Clearwater Florida there's Scientology's biggest base. People go there to get the highest level of Scientology training and counseling. So I often saw Jenna Elfman, Kirstie Ali, John Travolta there as well. But they were sort of going back and forth because in L.A. there's the Celebrity Center. Right. And then like so what were you guys told like of the outlet? Like how do you think now that this was ever even allowed that kids would be able to not go to school and not work.

But I guess because it's almost like a Catholic school, like because it's a religion and it's non-profit, you know, like a nonprofit religion, whatever it is. Or it is a profit religion. I don't know. The fact that religion is not regulated for taxes. So they were able to do that and they were able to have their own schools and no one was checking on the kids.

Right. Like they're able to say, like in a private school. well you basically there's no oversight on the curriculum there's very few requirements so they could say even when we're doing Scientology studies that that's our schooling when in fact we did go to a like place that where we did regular schooling one day a week but that was it and again it wasn't regular schooling it was there were no grades we were on the check sheets again so self-led but um but we did like that was some educational thing that we did, but yeah, there was just no oversight. Like, none of us got diplomas. And were you ever, like, part of, like, the recruiting side of, like, getting people

to join? No, I wasn't. And so, so then, okay, so now you're like, your teen years are spent there. You're, are you in the same, are your parents still in LA? Are you? My parents are back in Riverside and Hemet. So the whole time from when I'm 12. And, I'm 16, I pretty much, like, I see them once or twice, and that's it. In fact, I'm forbidden to call them by my aunt, Shelly Miscavage, because, like I said before, like they kind of consider the child-parent relationship, like a distraction, especially if you're a member of their most dedicated group. So it's seen as you, like, putting over-importance on the family instead of the group.

And so I wasn't allowed to call them. And in fact, several times when I tried, I was physically restrained from doing so. They would just like, you mean you'd try to grab the phone and they would like say no. They would say no and then I would try to grab the phone again. And then one person would grab each arm and a leg and I would be like fighting to get to the phone and they wouldn't let me. And so then at 16, where do you go off to? So at 16, out of nowhere, when I was still in Clearwater, I was picked out of my day and I started getting these interrogations on the e-meter for like nine hours a day. And it was from this like really important boss lady who was terrifying.

And, you know, she was asking me all sorts of weird questions like, you know, do you have evil intentions against your uncle? All of this stuff. And then they basically had me be in a room all day when I went. wasn't getting these interrogations where I was supposed to listen to these lectures. And then when I wasn't doing that, I had to scrub the bathroom. And somebody would be watching me all the time in case I tried to escape. So there was someone with me at all time. I had no idea why. And basically after like a month or more of this, and also by the way, someone would sit outside my door while I was sleeping to make sure I didn't escape. I don't even have anyone to call if I wanted to escape. I was

terrified of the outside world. I wasn't going anywhere. Right. But then they brought me to L.A. They told me that my parents had left the most dedicated group, that they were now living in Mexico. And they wanted them to go to Mexico because they didn't want the press to get a hold of the story that they had left. And so they had set them up there and then that they wanted me to go with them. So they had left the religion? Yes. But you had no idea because you weren't communicating with them. Yes, I had no idea. Exactly. Yeah. So two dudes were like telling me this after I got flown to L.A. And they were like, your parents are gone. And so then, so then do you reconnect in Mexico? Nope. I said, well, I barely know these people.

Now I've been away from them my whole life. I've, have all of these friends that I've made, this whole like all of these people that I care about yeah that's my world now and I've already been ripped away from my world previously in California to go to Florida and now you're trying to rip me away from it also in Scientology they teach you that if you go to well I was way behind in school so the idea of me going to a regular school was terrifying right not only that they teach you in Scientology like in Scientology the big enemies are the psychs the psychiatrist and they teach you that they like drug you and they like lobotomize you and stuff and so I was like I ain't going to a regular school where they're going to lobotomize me and like whatever so the whole thing

like I was afraid of the outside world I had like no contact with people who weren't Scientologists at all yeah we called we called um non-scientologist wogs and it was like muggles so it was like yeah I was and we were we were like I was always told that we had to tell them a certain story like I was a student and I never understood why we had to lie so I was just afraid of them and so going into the outside world with my parents who at this point I had spent no time with leaving everyone behind to a school where I was essentially going to get drugged and lobotomized I was like hell no I'm staying here and and when why did your parents leave do you ever connect with them and did they tell you what what was their reason for finally getting out

yeah for sure I mean the things that were going on at the base where they were at I mean my uncle Dave was beating people he was like keeping people in a trailer making them sleep overnight on the floor making people stand in trash cans while people threw stuff at them and like yeah just regular beatings and psychological torture and they were just like I'm not doing this anymore I'm out this is this is insane and so they decided to leave and then when they went to mexico i mean did they have like that that's why i always think if when you when you defect it then you have how do you even start like a career or a business right that's what's really hard when you don't have an education first of all you don't have any connections outside of scientology because everyone you know is in Scientology. I mean, being on Mexico is another level, but I guess maybe it's easier if you're like white in Mexico and American, but they basically sold timeshares at that time. Yeah. And then they eventually moved back to the to the U.S. and got their real estate license. I mean, all of these

things when you leave Scientology, you lose those connections, no education, et cetera. Those are all setbacks. But one thing you're used to doing in Scientology is working your ass off. Right. So like nobody, nobody else in the world. So usually people who leave Scientology in this way, in this group, are very hard workers. But that being said, like you kind of maybe burn out at some point if you've been working since you're six years old. So now you're 16. You're back in L.A. You have no relationship with your parents.

They are, you know, seen as the enemy. Then what is going on with you? Like, where are you living then? so I'm living on Hollywood Boulevard I don't know if you see that information center or their testing center where people sort of that's where I lived on the top floor okay and yeah that was after about another like basically so now I wasn't allowed to answer the phone at all I wasn't allowed to receive any letters from my parents or anything like that and yeah I worked there I mean I wound up leaving when I was 22 but things just gradually became worse and worse. And one of the big things that happened is that I had sex before I was married. And that if you do that, you basically get assigned, well, normally you get assigned to what they call the rehabilitation project force, which is basically a program where you are all black. You're not allowed to speak unless spoken to. You have to run everywhere you

go you're basically ostracized and you do heavy manual labor all day and you do five hours of interrogation like basically confessions and people stay on this program for like nine years sometimes and what about the guy that you had sex with was he also banished to this group well i didn't so what happened is that i wanted to get married but they wouldn't let me because they were afraid that my parents were going to like try to like meet with this person's family it was just all paranoia. They were going to meet with this person's family and they were going to conspire to take down Scientology. And so they wouldn't let me get married. And so that's when we wound up, we wound up sleeping together before we got married. But because it was kind of their fault

and because I was kind of really bitchy, they didn't assign me to the program. But now where are you guys finding time to be intimate? Are you like still living in this dormitory type life or do you have like your own apartment? We don't have our own apartment. No. It was literally like there was an empty room and we went in there and there's no time like you get home at like midnight literally and then it's like you hold hands in the hallway and then everyone's like giving you the side eye and like being like don't touch each other don't and if you like even look at somebody long enough straight in the eyes like 20 people will write reports on you because in Scientology they have this culture where you have to write reports on each other

So still at like 22, are you able to, like, go with your boyfriend and, like, walk on Hollywood Boulevard and go get lunch somewhere? So this is even before I was 18. Okay. No. Well, one day a week you are. One day a week, we were allowed to go, like, down the street to combos and get pizza. But on a regular day, absolutely not. You cannot leave the building.

There's a guard there the entire time. So you have to, like, have his permission to leave. and that sort of thing. Now, I did walk home frequently because the building I worked in was on Hollywood and Ivar. So it was just a few blocks down. So we would walk home or take a van home, but it wasn't like, like it was at midnight. It wasn't like any sort of free for all or free time or anything. And then what about like those big Scientology like events at night, like those big fancy things that they'd have that we've seen videos? Would you be like working those or seeing the stars or what about those? Yeah. So those happen. Scientology has like five or six regular events that

they do throughout the year. They're not always at the shrine in L.A. They're sometimes in different places. But basically at every one of those events, they come out with a new book. Like for instance, they'll come out with a new addition of dynetics that has like a different sticker on the front or something like that. And then basically it's our job as staff to basically, basically, force the Scientology parishioners to buy these things and essentially stay up all night until we make our quota. And so our script would be to go to each person and be like cash our credit and like try to basically make everyone buy whatever is being, whatever new course is being is coming out or is being announced at this event. And so, okay, so then, so when do you start to go? This isn't for me.

Like how, when did you leave? I think the first time I ever started thinking this wasn't for me when I was when I was probably like 16, but it is sort of a building up. But one of the main things that happened is that when I was 21, I believe, maybe 20, me and my then husband, because we got married when I was 18. And none of our family was there or anything. It was just kind of crazy. But we got sent to a mission, on a mission to Australia in order to help a local Scientology church get a new building to work out of and to like raise money for it, et cetera. And it was, you know, when we were there, it was the first time I was in the regular world. Like we had an apartment and we dealt with like realtors

and we and one of the ladies who was on staff there, it wasn't like this, it wasn't the most dedicated group. So like she had kids and we would kind of like hang out with her little daughter who was two years old. She was really cute. And we would like go grocery shopping. We would make our own food. And I had never experienced this in my life. So all of the people who I once thought were terrifying and the outside world, which I thought was like horrible and full of drugs and whatnot, I kind of learned that it wasn't really true. It was all just like kind of made up. In fact, half the people who I met didn't even know what scientology was because we were always taught that Scientology was like taking over the world and everybody loved it and it was like so big

and that's what we'd get told at these events oh wow yeah so you never like watch TV or like did you so you didn't so you didn't even see like the celebrities that were in it on their shows or anything so you were now there's no way to be like Starstruck even well like we if there was a Tom Cruise and John Travolta movie, like they would play that at like Christmas or other things. But yeah, I didn't grow up watching TV at all. So actually when I was in Australia,

I was like the first time we would like watch TV, like we would watch Big Brother or like Australian Idol or whatever. Yeah. Okay. So then what happens in Australia? Do you start thinking I think there's more to this life or? Yeah. I think a big part of it for me was like,

like the little girl because we weren't allowed to have kids and my husband at the time he really wanted to have kids and he always thought the rule would change which was stupid so is the rule is the story's true about how they would do forced abortions and stuff yes it's true yeah I never had that when I was in Scientology because I never got pregnant but yeah it would be like people in the group that I was in it's not like they're holding you down and forcing you to do an abortion but they're like yeah the right thing for you to do is get an abortion otherwise you're going to betray the group and leave and so people would have to like be put through like you know different steps that they would have to do to decide what's for the greatest good for the world

and just be like pressured and like ostracized if they didn't do that and so yeah it's absolutely true so you see this little girl and you're like I do think I want to be a mom Is that what was happening kind of? Yeah, she was just like so funny and so cute and we would just hang out. And I was like, hmm, I was like, maybe I really am missing out on something that I never thought. And it was also the first time that I had kind of my own space. Like I was always surrounded, you know, by everybody all the time. We ate in big mess halls.

I lived in dorms. And it was the first time that I even had like privacy to think my own thoughts without being, like inspected upon every day. And then we went back and then it really put everything in stark contrast. Like it like we had a little freedom and then we got back and it was like even worse. Like they were just treating people more and more horribly. People were expected to work through the night like nearly every single night to get to finish projects that like just wound up having to be redone. It just, you know, they were just doing little things to take things away from people that they didn't have to. And I always thought, like, you know, I'd

always believed in giving up certain things in order to maybe have to sacrifice in order to make the world a better place. But some of the things that they were forcing people to give up were just because of humiliation and cruelty. And I couldn't unsee that anymore. It became a point where I was like, yeah, I'm not helping people. If everybody who I care about is being treated like shit in front of my face like we're not helping anybody and I was like yeah I can't I can't do this anymore and so that what what held you then when you said that's it and how do I get out of this I was 22 almost 21 so I wound up saying that I wanted to leave they tried to like placate me in many different ways I was like nope I'm leaving they basically try to make you get an

interrogation before you leave because if you don't get it, then you basically are what they call declared a suppressive person, which means that no Scientologist can ever talk to you. Again, you're like the enemy. And I was to a point where I'd had had so many of these interrogations, like even where I tried to get out of the room and they like chase me down Hollywood Boulevard, chase me down the stairs, physically restrained me, wouldn't let me out. And I was like, I'm not doing it. Like, at this point, I didn't even really believe in Scientology itself anymore. So I was like, I'm not doing it. And did you get to the level of where you found out about the spaceships and the aliens and stuff?

No. I found that out. After, they teach you in Scientology that if you learn about that before it's your time, then you'll basically die. So, like, they literally tell you that you'll get, like, pneumonia and die. So even long after I left Scientology, when I was like watching the South Park episode, I was like, I tested it on my husband first. I was like, let's see if you die. If you live, then I'll watch it. And yeah, like, and then you always think about like the person that gets that level.

Are they like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, this is the story? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so like I could see somebody who's like, you know, who's like maybe like you if you were in Scientology like because not all Scientologists work in the dedicated group that I did right grew up in the way I did so like if I was in the regular world and I heard that I'd be like what the right right I was already just like a brainwashed weirdo

the entire time I was there so I probably would have been like oh cool wow so when people say the reason like you know Tom Cruise and Sutton you know and John Travolta got in it and stayed in it so long. You know, some people feel it's because they, like you, were like kind of brainwashed in that, you know, all your success and everything is because you're a Scientologist. The other part is in one of those weird truth telling, holding the two cans, that maybe at that time they revealed some deviant behavior or even homosexual behavior, and they use that as blackmail to be like, if you ever leave, we'll tell, we'll tell.

at you know now it doesn't matter but 20 30 years ago being gay when you're playing this like macho guy could have really hurt your career what do you think is the deal with those level of stars that are still in it i mean i think it's a combination of all of them i think it is a matter of blackmail at some point even if it's not being outright said they know what scientology does to people who speak out about them. And I also think that they've been in Scientology for so long at this point that all of their connections, all of the people who work for them, all of their, all of everybody is in Scientology. So they stand so much to lose all of their friends. Now they have other friends, I'm sure. It's not like how it was for me. But I think that's a big loss for them. And I think that

Scientology really appeals to the ego of maybe like insecure actors or whatever. And it really like it can make you feel really empowered, especially when, you know, you're just going there and paying for it and getting treated like a king or a queen, which is very different than, you know, the experience that I'm having. I'm one of the people who are serving those people or who are carrying their folders or who, you know, are. cut out. So I honestly, so part of me is like I can understand why someone like me stays. I can understand why someone like them stays, but I really think it's extremely fucked up that they're living this life in their mansion and, um, you know, have millions of dollars and are getting basically taken care of by kids who are my age, who are running their courses on them, who are running their counseling and they see all this and they hear the stories in the media and they just say oh it's all bullshit well it must be nice to experience scientology in that way but i've met many of those celebrities i've seen them around when i was when i was in clear water floor there was tons of

kids like me running around so they know that it's true they just don't care it's just inconvenient for them and what do you think happen with tom and so with first his first marriage or second marriage was with Nicole Kidman and they adopted two kids and then they break up and she never has any never sees those kids again right yeah what do you think happened in that situation so I remember speaking to my aunt Shelley miscavage at the time when like Tom Cruise was getting back into Scientology and she basically told me that Nicole Kidman her dad was like a psych a psychologist or a psychiatrist yeah which is like the devil in Scientology so basically because of that and Nicole wasn't like as much into Scientology like Tom was she was seen as somebody who was like badly influencing him and was keeping him away from his full potential in Scientology and so she was like sort of like bad news so it's my understanding that Scientology basically orchestrated him seeing her as the devil and them splitting up and then that's when he like went full on into Scientology and do you think in her

case, you know, the kids were adopted, but she, you know, was with the kids in the beginning. I just wonder if she just couldn't fight it. Like between being an actress, him, the being adopted, I don't know what, why she forgot, just forwent, whatever you call it for, she, that's not a word, but like, that she just went, that she just gave up. Yeah. And like, okay, I'll marry someone else and have, you know, the kids with Keith Urban and like she never saw those kids again. Do you just think it was just too overwhelming the power? No, I don't think it was for lack of trying. Like I believe that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But the kids were essentially brainwashed and had been in Scientology for many years. And so there comes a point. Like even when my parents were

out of Scientology and I was still in, if they had said one bad word about Scientology, I never would have spoken to them so you have to like you have to like there's like this line that you have to like make it clear that you're there for them no matter what and you love them and you have to be a nice person so that when they're ready they will come to you but you can't force the issue and so honestly that's what i believe that she was doing and so then he gets with um you know katie and they have surrey and then they they break up and from everything that we've read he is never seen surrey really right and now she's like 19 or something and so what do you think happened there do you think that um that you know she realized oh shit you know i'm not going to lose my dog

this is what i think i think maybe like anybody that gets married you fall to love you realize like this isn't really this Tom Cruise that I had a crush on because the poster in my room is different now and now that I have a mother that is the most important relationship to me and I think maybe she felt if she doesn't divorce him now the kid will be sucked into the ideology world and then then she'll never regain that power as the mom so yeah yeah yeah and then I always wonder like I wonder if Tom didn't seek trying to see Surrey because of that whole idea of children. Like maybe he was like, this isn't that.

Continue this relationship with her. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, basically once Katie would have pulled that maneuver and like divorcing him and it looks bad on him publicly and it looks like it's because of Scientology, she would have then been considered a suppressive person. And like, you know, as having sort of done something to prove Scientology is psychotic so publicly. And so if somebody is a suppressive person, you can't even be connected to them through a child. You have to disconnect to anyone who is connected to them. So because Katie is her mom and is not going to let go of custody, I actually believe that he's signed over sole custody as a sacrifice he would do for Scientology and for not being connected to a suppressive person, which is her mom. And then what about the mystery of your aunt, Shelly,

and where she's been for the last 15 years, whatever it's been? Right. I mean, it's a little bit, it's a little bit, well, I don't personally believe that Shelly was ever missing. Like, she was reported missing, but she, by somebody, like, several, like, maybe six years after they last saw her. Shelly wasn't somebody who spoke at Sintosh.

events she wasn't necessarily a public person she was somebody who maybe would have like had been at a party with lea remini yeah and but it's not like like everybody there is in a cult so you can't really say that they're missing yeah somebody who you're expected to see every day so i understand lea being like well they wouldn't answer my question where is she and that's weird but also lea doesn't necessarily have a right to know where she is and scientology who at this point hates Leah Remedy isn't exactly going to be like, you know, breaking their backs to answer her questions. I always remember like her being like, okay, so she takes J-Lo to the Tom Cruise wedding and they put J-Lo on a different table and they didn't want her at that table. And then she's like, where is Shelly?

And I feel like there's something in that story that like switched her to this to be like pissed on in a few levels. Like, oh, you think my best friend J-Lo is a bigger star than me. You're trying to recruit her. And I'm being seen as the less famous person. So that probably pissed off her ego. And then that's kind of, I think then when she just like really turned because I always tell when I was doing Chelsea lately, she was friends with Chelsea. And we would have some jokes about Scientology back then.

I would watch you back then. And before we even talked about it. And we did something where we like did something about Scientology and we like Photoshop like an alien like working at the office like with a copy machine or something. And then the next day she said she heard from Leah who was like, hey, Chelsea, you know, can you lay off of the jokes? And so then Chelsea's like, we can't do this anymore. And then there was something else that happened. And I was like, wait a minute. And I like figured out that whatever.

Leo Rebony was doing. She was either traveling or something. And I was like, Chelsea, there's no way she could have watched the show. And I'm like, I think they have Scientology people that are assigned to our show. And she is the vessel that's, you know, so. And, you know, then eventually she got out and it's all fine. But it's just like when she was doing all that stuff, I'm like, I hope she knows what like a bully she was. You know, and getting people to shut up and everything for all those.

years and um but at least she's you know she's sharing the truth now right yeah exactly but yeah that's what that's the kind of thing that they use celebrities for you know for influence whether it's in a tv show or having them go speak to congress to get certain Scientology programs into schools things like that that's what that's why they treat them so well but yeah I believe that after Leah got pissed off about not sitting next to J-Lo and asking where Shelly is, they actually punished her after for like quite a bit of time where they forced her to do interrogations. And then that's when she wound up leaving. You mean, she had to be questioned by them, like do certain hours. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So similar

to what they're always trying to do to me. Yeah. She probably had an experience it on that level at that time. So that was like more of her first taste of that where I had been like experiencing that since I was a kid. Right. You know, so I guess sometimes just when something doesn't, like when it's happening to someone else, you know, it's, you don't really feel it until it's happening to you. Absolutely. That's so true about so many things or someone that's a horrible person to a lot of people,

even if it's not the level of like, you know, what you dealt with. And then people are like, well, it was nice to me. I don't, I mean, I don't know. I don't know the story. And you're like, but I told you the story. Like, you know it. Like, and then when it does happen to you, you. you look back and you're like oh well yeah i was enjoying it too when it wasn't when i wasn't

really really willing to face it i know that you wrote a book and um tell everybody where they can find that and follow you because you're doing a lot of videos and doing a lot of interesting things you're continuing to expose it and in your exposure and writing of the book has the backlash ever been, you know, super terrifying or something, would have made you stop? I mean, just crazy things like being followed by PIs, having certain people being inserted into my ex-husband in my life to sort of spy on us. But I do think that I get the better, like other people they really, really go after. I think that I have the benefit of having my last name be miscavage and that they would be the first people that anybody would suspect if something

happened to me so i think that they like kind of maybe chill a little bit but it's still like you know they still went out of their way to try to destroy my family after we left scientology and my marriage um so yeah but my book is called beyond belief my secret life inside scientology and my heroin escape and you can buy it on amazon my youtube channel's jenna miscavage my ticot is Gennemus Gavage. My Instagram is the real Gennemus Gavage because somebody stole the Gennamus Gavage name. And when when Leah was doing her show, were you approached by them at any point and doing anything with that show? I was approached at that time and I just, there's a few things going on like I was raising my kids and then also like, you know, the guy that was involved,

he had been a really big part of sort of trying to ruin my life. Mike, right. Mike Rinder. Rinder. Yeah, yeah. And so I, yeah, I didn't, I don't know, I felt like we, I never, like, really got an apology from him. And it was just like, yeah, I mean, I think they did a great job in the show. Like, I think that they told so many people's stories in such an important way. So, like, when I look back at it, now I'm like, wow, they did really did a great job and they really got the word out there. But at the time, that's kind of what I was thinking. Are you surprised that it's still, that people are, I can see what people are still in it, but I'm like shocked that anybody would join it new and with everything that's out there now. How could someone join? Do you think they're getting any new people?

I do think they are. But yes, I mean, many people who are, their parents, like, are in and then their kids are getting in. So I think that's a big part of it. But, I mean, they get to people in sneaky ways. They have all these front groups, they have like Narcanon, Criminon, Citizens Commission on Human Rights, all of these organizations that are really Scientology, but they get people, like, without them knowing that's what it is, or even whole business programs. People get recruited through business, but it's called World Institute of Scientology Enterprises. So it's just like there's so many little scams going on where they get people.

Yeah, I came across some weird, like, you know, TikTok, video of like people being interviewed in a show that kind of was trying to look like vice or something you know that shows like a documentary and it was just these no-name people then saying that like oh lear remini was you know horrible on set and she was so mean and i started to look it up and then they talk about this other guy and i go who's this other guy and i look him up and they're all ex-scientologists that they're attacking and i'm like well this is just they're just trying to make it look like a show so then you come across it and you don't really do the research and you're like oh lea remini is like a bitch on set or whatever you know just like you hear about anybody telling on

celebrities you know just to completely still you know trash their name yeah they do these production quality videos and they just get people to come on and absolutely trash ex-scientologists and the sad thing it's usually like their family members or it's usually like their ex like best friends and it's like you know not only that is a horrible thing to do to somebody like publicly but it's also like it sort of discourages you from speaking out it discourages many people from speaking out and um so are you connected with your parents now um i do i am connected with them like they're out of scientology but you know it has been a little bit up and down and whatever like unfortunately once you leave scientology not everything goes away you know you don't

just like miraculously get your whole childhood back right you're fine so it's had good moments and it's had bad moments and I just kind of think that it's like something that you work through and deal with for the rest of your life pretty much yeah well this has been so interesting I'm really glad that we got to connect again and and hear about it because it's been a minute I feel like, you know, people, it was such a big hot topic. And then it's kind of like, and then, but there's still all these unanswered questions. So thank you for answering them. And I appreciate you so much.

Thank you. And tell everybody where they can follow you one more time. Okay. So my book is called Beyond Belief, My Secret Life Inside Scientology and my harrowing escape. You can find it on Amazon. And my YouTube channel is just Jenna Miscavage. My TikTok's Jenna Miscavage. And my Instagram is the real.

gentlemen scaven Got it All right Thank you so much Have a good rest of your day Thank you Bye