Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Holly Madison on Playboy Murders and Dating Much Older Men

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

Holly Madison of Playboy fame and now best selling author, podcaster and host of Playboy Murders is back! We discuss the discovery that Hugh Hefner took out life insurance policies on the girls next door without their knowledge. What is it like to date men your age after dating men 50 years your senior. Then we get into several of the disturbing crimes Holly covers in the upcoming 3rd season of Playboy Murders on the ID Network. So juicy! Enjoy! • Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.yeah! • Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and get $625 off with the code JUICYSCOOP at  https://www.irestorelaser.com/JUICYSCOOP ! #irestorepod • Listen to the original Dying for Sex—plus new bonus episodes—on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. • Upgrade your sleep during Boll & Branch’s Annual Spring Event! For a limited time get 20% off at https://BollAndBranch.com/juicyscoop  • For a limited time go to https://SpotandTango.com/juicyscoop and use code juicyscoop to get fifty percent off your first order.  Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod  https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: https://juicyscoopshop.com  Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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be your fourth or fifth time on Juicy Scoop. I think it is the fourth total. It's Holly Madison. You know her from her bestselling books. We're also going to talk about her Juicy Show third season of the Playboy Murders. You and Bridget, formerly both of Girls Next Door, have a great podcast that people love where you rewatch the shows. Welcome back. Thank you so much. You always have so much fun here.

Thank you. Thank you. As always, a couple of things new in your life besides the third season and these juicy crimes is your single again. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not really looking either. I'm like the next person is going to be the one or nothing because I do not have time Like I'm co-parenting two young kids. I have like three jobs

I don't have I don't have a minute to carve out unless you're the one so so I mean I don't want to get too deep into it Yeah, but was it a long time coming because you guys been together for like six months or was it a six years? Sorry, but or was it a six years sorry six years but or was it a reason that it was undeniable? Well it was very often on for a long time. I don't want to say too much because I have so many male enemies I feel already. What do you mean male enemies that you really know are male enemies that are typing away? No male enemies that like I've dated. Oh okay. So I have a couple. But anyway I mean but people would know because it's like he was on dating apps behind

my back constantly. And he probably won't be happy that I said that, but he was putting himself out there, verified account linked to his Instagram. So like every girl in Vegas is hitting me up like, oh, isn't this your man? So they would be on like a Bumble or whatever. It wasn't even Raya. Okay, so to let people- It was Bumble or whatever. It wasn't even Raya. Okay, so to let people-

It was Bumble and Tinder. Because the way I know, the way I understand it is, since I've been married almost 25 years and know I've never been on the dating apps, but I'm fascinated by it and when my friends are on it, I'm like, let me see what's knocking on your door. Okay, so you go through it. And the way I understand it is Raya is for

not only like entertainment people, but they really verify that you are who you are, you have the money that you say you have, and it's the most difficult to be accepted on, right? Yeah, and it's private. Like if you get caught screenshotting, you're kicked off, you know. Now, couldn't you take a second phone and screen grab? Yeah, people do that. And then they get kicked off the app, but you know, things leak out that way.

But how would they know if someone, they can tell too? Well, I think if somebody's like watching your social media or something like that, I've heard of people getting kicked off or things like that. Oh, okay. And then, but with like a Tinder and a Bumble or whatever. Anyone can see it. Right. And so people saw his face.

Was he using his real name too? Yes, it was verified and linked to his Instagram account. So he used his real job, his real face. Yeah, all the things, full bio. And so when you, did you confront him and what did he say? I did. Well, guys always like to do the it's not really me or that's an old account, I'm not on.

Okay. But you get enough screenshots and receipts from other people that it's just like, okay. Right. So it wasn't that. It wasn't just like, oh, I was mad at you that night and I just put it up there and then I took it down. Yeah. And we were very off and on.

So there was room for some of that. But then you start catching it with verified dates and screenshots and things like that. So it wasn't... You know what I think I think it's like, originally, like, you know, years ago, a few years ago, I was like, Oh, my God, you know, with all this technology, it makes it so easy to cheat. Yeah. But now I think actually, it's the opposite. I think so, too. I think it's way harder to cheat than like, 2030 years ago, where like people had entire other families. Yeah, people would know.

With all the Facebooking and groups and did you date this guy? And TikToks and everyone being on social media. And then if you meet a guy who's like, I don't have social media, then your antennas go up too. Cause you're like, why? What are you hiding? Or like when girls say I'm dating a guy and they never,

and he's always just like, no, don't take my photo. And you're like, well, why? Also, have you seen the Facebook groups? Are we dating the same guy? Right, yeah, I've heard of that. The Vegas one is lit. The Vegas one is? Yeah.

Because that's where you mostly live, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so people just go on there. And if they're even thinking about going out with a guy, they're like, okay, does anybody have any red flags on Evan? And every girl in town knows Evan. It's like with every guy, it's crazy. I just remember this one guy who he was like my age,

so he was dating someone younger, like 27 or whatever. And he's like, I don't know, you know, he's like screw dating young girls, it's really hard. He's like, I had a girl that broke up with me because I didn't tag her in a photo. He's like, I don't even know what the fuck that means. So then she was like, you're not tagging me in the photo, because you don't want the world to know.

And he's like, I just, I posted the photo. I didn't tag her. Like, it's so weird. There's a whole new set of etiquette. Yes, that has to be described. Speaking of which, dating older people, because you of course were half, for how many years were you guys together?

Seven years. Seven years. And when we watched the show, you were clearly the most devoted. He seemed to be, you know, put you at the top. Like you were a more special thing, even though there was the girlfriend theme of the show. And as much as I watch, you know, watching it, it seemed that you were headed towards marriage or you thought it would lead to marriage. And so since then, you've dated other people, but nobody has been significantly older than you at all. Now, he was 30 years older than you, 40. How much older was he? Like 50 something years older than me. Right. So that is very much like Bill Belichick and his girlfriend. They're in the 50 year range. They're almost the 50-year range.

They're almost in the great-grandpa, like not even just grandpa, a great-grandpa range. And, you know, now he's a very powerful man too, and all of that, but she's only like 23 or four, which I saw a joke, I talked about it before, where it's like she can't even rent a car, you know, because she'd be 25. Right. They asked her, joke, which I talked about before, where it's like she can't even rent a car, you know, because you'd be 25. Oh my God.

Right. They asked Tom Brady, they're like, this good comedian was like, would you rent a car for your former coach's girlfriend? And it took like a second to go, oh my God, I have to do that. That's so funny. But like when you see that, like what do you think, because she also has dated much older men. Yeah, I'm kind of fascinated. Like I'm not in a judgmental way at all,

because obviously I dated a much older man who I was in love with and fascinated by. So I understand being attracted to the super successful guy that you can look up to, who's super interesting and iconic and whatever. But nobody else I've dated since has been significantly older. So I'm kind of fascinated

because there are women out there who will, and again, no judgment, significantly older. So I'm kind of fascinated because there are women out there who will. And again, no judgment, like whatever. But I'm kind of fascinated, like the woman who had a baby with Al Pacino, like she has a really interesting roster like Mick Jagger, Clint Eastwood, Al Pacino. I'm like, wow. And she was a girl who I kind of like looked into her a little bit just because I'm curious. And, you'm curious. I think she was brought up like upper middle class or wealthy, went to NYU, film student. I'm sure she's talking to these guys about career stuff. I don't know.

I don't know. It's just fascinating. I think there's two types of women too. I do think that it's like I remember this Jill's there in his friend of mine, her boyfriend, Gary said this to me, he goes, he was talking about somebody who went from one billionaire guy to another billionaire guy, but kind of in the same pool of like a Palm Beachy golf, whatever world. And he said, and I go, oh, I would think that they would be going for the young hot thing, whatever. He's like, and not that this woman wasn't, but she was not, again, she was not significantly younger.

She was someone else's former wife and then went to another. And he's like, billionaires want another billionaire's fabulous wife. 100%. I've noticed that too. They want what their friend would rather have than just some like yacht girl that's like, they know they can get that girl. They know they can manipulate the 25 year old when they're 55. But certain men would rather like, no, I want, yeah, a really quality woman,

but she's 48 and I'm 55. And she's already been married and divorced and is well liked and has her own shit going, which I think is kind of fascinating. And then there's the guy that seeks out the much younger woman, never went past a girlfriend. I mean, he never started the relationship with any girl that was like, what?

Over 30. Yeah. And then, so it's like, that's what he was comfortable with knowing that that was the age he needed to, I think, control, manipulate, impress. Yeah, 100%, that's what, impress. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 100%. That's what it was.

To be impressed. And so my other question is, so then when the relationship ends and then you're like getting together for the first time with a body that's like a good body, like tight skin, like not an older man. Yeah. Is that like, like, and also just somebody not knowing, not having all the connections too that the older guy had. Like what was that transition like to now date guys that are just, you know, have their shit together

but are normal guys? I don't know if I've ever dated a normal guy, honestly. I mean, my common denominator when I look at who I've dated is I tend to really be fascinated with like really successful people who are really creative and kind of create their own worlds. Okay. That's kind of like what I'm drawn to, I feel.

So I feel like the weirdest thing in dating for me transitioning out of the mansion is just dealing with other people's judgment because people will be excited to get together with you knowing exactly who you are and what your history is. But then you get into, a few months later, the relationship and they start developing deeper feelings and they start getting really jealous. And they start overthinking my past or what my past would have been

or what they imagine it is. And it just gets crazy. And is that about the wealth and the connections that you had in your previous relationship that maybe they couldn't provide as a guy? Or is it something else? I think so. Or just worrying about what other people might say because what they imagine about the relationship or something. Yeah.

And so, I mean, has anyone ever come to you and asked like for advice, like, hey, I was with this much older guy for a long time. I want out, how do I, you know, now I'm going to not have all the amenities and cushions of having a guy that's like wealthy and established, knows how to do everything. Like, is there any advice you'd give to somebody that's like maybe in a relationship where they're like, it's been such a like a parental relationship that you know, is a couplehood, but like. Yeah, you just have to save as much money as you can and start thinking about what you wanna do

when you get out. Like I was always very conscientious of that from the minute I entered that relationship. I was always in school for other things or setting aside as much money as I could. We didn't get paid much for different things, but I always knew that this could come to an end at any minute.

Even when I was in the mindset of I never wanna to leave or I feel like I can't leave, there was always a part of me that was saving money and going to school and doing things like that. Yeah, that's very important. And like one of the things I saw recently, a clip from your and Bridget's show is that she brought up the fact that she recently found out that heff had life insurance policies on you, which you oftentimes see an ad like, oh, the Gerber baby life insurance policy,

where people could get a life insurance policy on their child. But to do it on another person that isn't their spouse. And then I saw in the comments that this insurance person said, yes, that can happen, but that you as the adult who's not, you know, would have to agree to it. Whether you're married or not, you'd have to agree to it. But I'm imagining when I'm watching the show how you'd go into Mary's office or whatever and there's

papers and this and that, and you're doing a show and here's a release and this is for the photo shoot and this is that if you signed it, who's just, you know, I'm sure it wasn't presented and this is a life insurance policy. So if you die, HEF's just, you know, I'm sure it wasn't presented. And this is a life insurance policy. So if you die, Heff gets this, but like, I don't think that was ever presented. Yeah. And I wouldn't put it past just because sometimes when people are so influential, especially somebody who's such a character as Heff, he might be working with an insurance broker

who just loves him so much that they'll just take his word for it. Like, oh, it's fine. And, you know, I'm not saying signatures were forged, but I wouldn't be surprised either, because there's all kinds of weird things like that going on. We didn't even know about the life insurance until years after somebody called Bridget

and was like, do you want to extend your policy? She's like, what are you talking about? And they said what year it was taken out and who took it out. So she called one of the secretaries at the mansion. They're like, oh yeah, I have had these life insurance policies taken out on you guys. Just the three of you.

Yeah. You don't know about the girlfriends before or after. Not that I know of. I think it was because we were thought of as an asset from the show. Yeah. Oh, that's even like gross. It's creepy, right?

Yeah, I don't like it. Yeah, because it's like, oh yeah, yeah. If one of you died, yeah, how much money would that be worth in loss revenue and production? And especially weird because we were always constantly told how replaceable we were. So it's like, okay, if we're so replaceable, why are we insured? How would they tell you that you were replaceable? Well, the first time I remember hearing it directly was the executive producer of the

show had a little luncheon with us outside by the pool at the mansion, just me, Bridget, and Kendra. And we weren't getting paid at all for the first season of the show at that time. And Kendra got up the nerve to ask, well, shouldn't we be getting paid for this? And the mood at the table changed so fast. You feel the energy drop on this guy, and he gets really serious, and he's like...

Wait, what was his role? He was the executive producer of the show. And he was also really close with Hef, so they were like in cahoots on everything. And you could just feel the energy drop from this guy. He got super pissed, stared her down, and said, you are replaceable. There are so many girls who would come in here and do this.

Like, you get free rent here, you get this, you get that. And we were just all kind of like, whoa. And eventually we did end up getting paid, but, you know, we were always told anytime we were asking for raises or anything like that, it's just you guys don't matter, you're replaceable, this show isn't about you, it's about the mansion. Well, if it makes you feel any better, I was on a show and we were told that too. It's crazy, right? And we were not in romantic relationships with the boss and we were just funny comedians

who were told that as well. And sometimes it's like a throwaway. Sometimes it's whatever. And maybe they're frustrated and they're stressed out. But it's not a great way to ever treat your employee, whether you're on a TV show or not, because it just makes you feel resentful. Exactly.

Yeah, especially in Hollywood, like, oh, yeah, you're a diamond dozen. But maybe it does make someone then realize, oh, OK, I better shut up, because, but then I also better start storing my nuts away for the winter. Yeah, totally. But the fun part is we were replaced, and then the show flopped.

Yes. There you go. I know whenever they try to do like a re-boot of anything, whether it's you know, Therese Company was never the same once you know, Suzanne Summers left. Yeah and she got booted because she asked for more money. Yes, she asked for more money and then, and she should because she was like the star and it was her husband who was also in TV that acted as a manager and and then I remember from the scene from the From the made-for-tv movie was based on their books and everything was he came out and he was like She's like, how did it go? She was hoping to go back on the show and he's like

He had already introduced her to this thigh master Yeah, I think you could sell this and then he's like get ready to this thigh master. And he was like, I think you could sell this. And then he's like, get ready to sell a thigh master. And that was like the first QVC exercise thing that really made them like millions. That was brilliant. I mean, that was on TV all the time growing up. And I will say about Suzanne Summers and her husband, she was so in love with him as he with her and so much mutual respect.

And many, many years ago, my mom was in real estate and I was in real estate too before I met. And she either sold her house or she was looking for their longtime assistant, they were buying a house for, which I believe for the assistant to keep after. So that's the way you treat it. Yeah. Like someone's been there for that long and you're like, I want you to live close enough to work for whatever it is. So I'm just saying that's, you know, you hear about people being like nice like that, but yeah, that's so, it's so true whenever that that happens, it just isn't the same. And some

things, that's why sometimes people, speaking of which, I'm just going to bring this up because we're talking about shows. So I don't know if you, like you know Kelly Clarkson has a show. I don't watch that much, but I see the clips. Extremely popular. She's so likable. She sings on the show. She left for two weeks with no real reason of just, I have to just take two weeks off. Not like someone in the family died or whatever. But she has two kids. They're like eight and 10. And she has to film it in New York and lives in the city with her kids. And so there's talk that she might want to end the show in a year when her contract is up. And I think it's really interesting because it is so much time to do a daily show.

And her kids are at an age where she feels like, I remember her saying something on a show like, you know, I wish they would do these performances and stuff at night so that working moms could go. And then the response was like, yeah, but the teachers don't wanna come back at night. And I'm like, well, that's true too. Like you can't please everybody.

And, you know, I'm sure she doesn't need the money to do the show and I don't feel she's like a fame person. And so then I was like, well, then you know what? This is kind of a good move because then they're gonna wanna keep her. And she'll be like, all right, let's just build a studio in Nashville or wherever. And we can have the show there.

And then the argument is like, oh, but all the guest stars that come through, they interview guests, they're doing just their press and that only happens in LA and New York. And I'm like, she doesn't need those people. First of all, people would fly to go do her show in Nashville. More and more things are happening in Nashville.

I feel like you could go to Nashville and do a whole press week these days. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, so that's what I think she should do. I think she should put her foot down and be like, if you want me to do the show, and then she should do a contract where she has many more weeks with a guest host, so where she doesn't have to be there. And yeah, she should take this time to be with the kids, because it goes by fast.

It does go by fast. My kids are grown, and I'm very happy of where they are. But I didn't have that freedom, because I wasn't the star of the show. But if I did, I would have definitely made it a more conducive thing. Yeah, she has a residency coming up in Vegas at Caesars. I would have definitely made it a more conducive thing. Yeah, she has a residency coming up in Vegas at Caesars.

I was just gonna say, why does he just do that? Yeah. What is it, do you know what it is? Like how long it is or? Well, when you're at Caesars, you rotate with other people. So it's not like she has to be there all the time. It would be like a chunk of dates, like maybe two weekends a month here

and a weekend a month there. That's usually how they schedule it out. So she can sing any song and it's great. We talked about this in my last episode and she sang that song, you know, you know, like my girl's a little bit older. And then it was like every girl that was either lesbian or thinking about it is like dying for her. And so she changes the words and it's just like,

she did another song where I saw where she was just like ripping on her ex-husband, like she changed the words on the ex-husband, like how dare you get half? And I think, yeah, I think that's what she should do. I think she should. But sadly for the people that work on the show, it's so great to have a hit show.

Totally. But hopefully that's what I think is going to happen. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Booking.com, Booking.Yeah. Guys, summer's around the corner and I know we're thinking family vacations, let's take the kids somewhere. Maybe you've got a couple weddings you want to hit. All of that involves booking the perfect place. That's why I love booking.com, booking.yeah. Because every time I use booking.com to find a place to stay in the US, I know they'll have exactly what I'm looking for. They have a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation

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and the ultimate bucket list of pleasure. This is a story that had everyone talking. Listen to the original Dying for Sex plus new bonus episodes on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge the original series before anyone else. Completely ad free on Wondery Plus. But let's get into what your show is, which is the Playboy Murders on ID. This is your third season. And so explain a little bit. They find kind of juicy murders, which sadly involve women being murdered, that have some connection to the Playboy world.

Right, whether it's a playmate or a Playboy model or somebody who worked as a bunny in one of the clubs. And there were so many clubs back in the day that we have a third season of the show now. Yeah. And which was so interesting. So the first one I wanna talk about is Kim Thaderini. Yes.

She was so pretty and she died when she was 30. And she was not only modeling and would do the events, but she was also helping to cast parties and stuff. And this was only in 2017. Yeah, it just happened in 2017. And this case was brought to my attention on social media. I would have people come into my DMs like, can you please cover this case? Friends of hers who really wanted her story to be told, because in some ways it's still kind of unsolved. She was found dead of an overdose. It was kind of written off as an accidental overdose. But they found alcohol, cocaine, and GHB in her system.

And people don't tend to do GHB as a recreational drug. Also, she was sending texts right before she passed to someone else saying, come help me. Somebody put G in my drink. I've never done this before. And then the text messages start to get really incoherent. It just looks like a bunch of like Letters strung together. Yeah, so it's a really scary situation and there wasn't enough evidence

Apparently to do a criminal case, but there's a civil trial pending right now and explain who the civil Pending is against it's the guy this guy that she was hanging out with Yeah, Sean Merryman a former football player and Weeby, who was a club promoter, who was the one who got the text messages. I believe that was him that got the text messages and they're being sued for negligence in her death. Well, and so is the friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Monica Mash. She's named in the suit as well. And I think that is so the friend, so the night, so they were like, you know, she's named in the suit as well. And I think that is, so the friend, so the night,

so they were like, you know, this was back in the day, which I just saw a video of two young girls being like, why is there no LA nightlife in LA? There's no nightlife for the Gen Zers. And I guess it's because they just, A, they don't drink as much, they'd rather watch nightlife on their phone by themselves. It's just, I don't know if it'll ever really come back,

but they were saying, no, the highlight years of LA and people were listing it, it was like, you know, maybe 98 to like 2010 or something. Those were the years that they, all those clubs, it was fun, like always something to do every night. Those were the Paris Hilton years. Those were the years that you guys were seeing at the clubs all the time. Especially back before people had smartphones because celebrities felt like they could go

out and when they were inside the club away from the paparazzi not get tattled on. So things really changed and people got cameras on their phones. You know what? You're right. Yeah. That ruined it all. That is a bummer. Because even for me, I've stopped doing as many stories on my evenings out and stuff.

Because I'm just like, I don't know. All you need is one tile. You don't need the whole, and God, concert videos, can people stop? And fireworks. Yeah, concerts and fireworks. Just don't, just enjoy it. I know, and it is better.

Take your one photo, post it the next day. Show a picture of the poster. I saw, well, I do like seeing some Sabrina Carpenter footage, I'm not gonna lie, she's cute. Yeah, but it also like, I used to hate it because I would like, the next day I'd be like, like my voice, like because I'd get buzzed, you know what I'm saying?

I'd be like, happy, man! And I'm I'd get buzzed, you know what I'm saying? I'd be like, happy birthday! And I'm like, oh God, you fucking old piece of shit. Like I just was like, no. And so now I'm like, no, I'm gonna put more video and like on my Patreon where people are like, okay, I do want to see your evening, but I don't need like, you know, people picking apart, like, you know, what you were doing, where you were.

And so I do think that makes people just be like, yeah, you're right. And so with this case, so she was with her girlfriend, they were gonna go out, this girl, Monica, and then they come back and it was that, they partied so late, right? They came back to the apartment, Monica's place, and she didn't wake up till three in the afternoon. And that's when she

found that she was unresponsive. But there was the discrepancy when I was reading all the notes you sent me that of like, first it was that she just called and was like, we came back and, you know, she's now not waking up on the couch. Then it was that she saw her and this guy having consensual sex, which I feel like she's just. Yeah, how can you know when somebody's blacked out? And like what were, and you were probably wasted too. You probably had the GHB in you too, but you didn't, you lived, you know, it could be one tiny ounce more

with a combination that would cause someone to. But I do think there's something, I don't know, kind of scary about it, if you were just the friend that came along. I mean, we all wanna have our girlfriends' backs and stuff, but I was like, oh, to have it haunt you all these years later and then be faced in a civil case that you didn't do everything you were supposed to do

as the friend, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it's really scary. I mean, it is kind of a freak out thing. But I liked hearing about her. But we want people to watch the show. Okay, now let's talk about this other episode. Now this girl had many different names. Yeah.

Carissa and then Carrie. Yeah, we can call her Carissa. That was her playmate name. She was a playmate in 2000. And she was involved with a guy who was trying to start a cult. He seriously wanted to create, this story's so wild, I feel,

I'm done even repeating it. But he was brought up Mormon. He did his missionary work in Brazil. He was very charismatic, was really successful at that apparently. So he came up with his missionary work in Brazil. He was very charismatic, was really successful at that apparently. So he came up with a scheme later in life, he was around 30 when all this went down, that he wanted to get a group of Brazilian orphans and brainwash them into becoming assassins to go take out the leaders of the Mormon church so he could take over

the Mormon church. So that was his scheme. She was involved in this really toxic relationship with him. He convinced her to send her photos to Playboy because he wanted her to become a Playmate. And his scheme was he wanted her to be accepted into Playboy and then use the connections that she got there to create like a high paid escort agency. That's what he wanted to do.

And she got accepted into Playboy but broke it off with him and got away. Once she got to LA. Yeah. So she gets to LA, she gets a waitressing job. He stalks her down there, shows up at the job. And when her issues about ready to come out, she tells Heff and Playboy that she's worried about this guy.

So they agree that on her promotional tour, they're not going to keep her in one place for more than two days. So she probably got away in the nick of time because not long after that, they find these five bodies, three of them were dismembered in duffel bags in a river and he had gone on this killing spree, trying to get money from people. They were people that he knew, cause he was a stockbroker,

so they were former clients of his. I mean, it's such a crazy story because it's like he, and he had a brother. Yeah. He had a brother that he involved in this. And this other woman named Dawn. And convinced them that this was like all for the good of the god or whatever. Yeah. And it's crazy because it's like I, you know, I don't want to say anything. There's lots of lovely Mormon people, but the amount of horrible, crazy crime that's come from, I was raised Mormon, and then I went on the offshoot, whether it was Lori

Vallow who was raised Mormon and then went crazy in a whole different direction and thought her kids were evil spirits, so she killed him with her boyfriend. There's just been like, oh, of course, of course there's like the Warren Jeffs of the world. And it's just it's strange that like some there's just a lot of that, unfortunately, that comes and now people are gonna say, yeah, and how many horrible Catholics? Yes, I agree. But there's a fringe in every group. There's a fringe in every group. But there's something about like, I don't know, this was just, you know, very strange and that, yeah, you know, and I always, I do believe that Mormons as business people are extremely successful, these men, because they do go out on the missions. And they imagine

how much rejection they get knocking on doors for two years. So then when they get into sales, it's like, they're an actor. It's like the best sales like training on earth. And so yeah, and then add to like mental illness and delusion that you're this cult leader. It's really crazy. And the more I read about this guy, the crazier it gets like he had this fetish for eating out of a dog bowl. And when he was planning these murders, he wanted to feed the victims to a dog. So he got these three dogs and he was practicing by giving them just like animal meat on bones. And I guess they weren't eating it as much as he wanted them to or something. So he abandons two of the dogs on the side of the road, red flag, keeps one of them. And it's just weird.

Like the more I read about it, it's just the layers to it are so bizarre. I know. And I always just think that and then also when women get involved and are also convinced to either you commit the murders like a Charl Manston person or you're there and you're participating with the cleanup and the planning and then like in the case of the woman that was with them, she was basically the eyewitness to it all. She got a lot of time too. Yeah, 25 years. Yeah, but they, the two brothers, you know, had it worse, but I don't want to give it

all away. But I just, so what I found interesting about the playmate is, so then what happened was this crime, they had arrested them while she started still like in the limelight. Yeah, she was doing a signing in Vegas. Because she was the actual playmate of the year. She was a playmate of the month that month. Which is a huge deal.

Yeah, and her issue was out. Especially back then. Yeah, for sure. Oh my God, that was, like the playmates of the month would be like on KTLA. Totally. And like it was very mainstream. It was very much, okay, this is absolutely a launching pad to be on sitcoms and be a host on an E show.

Yeah. Yeah, we have so much cute footage of her on the show from like when Ben Stein's money and like fun shows like that and she's so adorable on it. But she was doing a signing in Vegas when the police came to question her about, you know, what could she possibly know about this? She got taken right there from the signing.

So it was really scary, but luckily she got that job just in the nick of time. Cause you wonder like what else could have happened had she not had that excuse to leave. But then she really kind of went into a very private life after that. And I think that's probably for a couple of reasons. One is she was freaked out

and you know, that might have been what she wanted to do either. But don't you think also Playboy was like, yeah, let's not have the hard copy episodes about the fact that this woman is involved with someone that's absolutely guilty of like five gruesome murders. Yeah, I think that's probably the case. Like they worked with her a lot to keep her busy and not keep her in one place and keep her as protected as they could. You can't babysit everyone who models for you, of course. I think they did their part with that.

But also that when those stories are breaking, that might not be the person they reach out to for the promotions or who they're considering for Playmate of the Year because then that's what the story would be about. Right. It's unfortunate. Yes, that's very juicy. Okay, now this girl. Lisa Kale.

Yes. This is kind of interesting, more the backstory of this era of Playboy. Yeah, it was the 80s. They were doing different features around the country. Like there would be like, this one was Girls 80s. They were doing different features around the country. Like there would be like this one was Girls of Texas And this was one like Dallas was huge and like the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders were huge and all that stuff I saw the cover in the materials that you sent me. Yeah, it's really and I remember it. Yeah Yeah, that was a big issue. They say that that issue like was double what their usual sales were

Right. So in how would they they do the girls of Texas? So it was like, you literally would do some amateur photos and mail it in with a stamp. How would they find these people? You could do that if you wanted to get in Playboy in general. But for these types of pictorials, they would travel around the country and they would have casting calls in the different cities.

So what happened was this girl's sister, Crystal, went to the audition to submit a picture of her sister. But they also saw her and liked what they saw. So they were both in the pictorial in separate shoots. And yeah, it was a fun experience. And unfortunately, she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time the month that issue was out. And I can't remember what happened to her.

Her boyfriend was throwing her a surprise birthday party and he was there getting the party ready. He had one of his friends, who I guess allegedly was a drug dealer, take her to the party, but he wanted to make a stop along the way. And he goes to this house with her and unbeknownst to him,

there were two hit men waiting for him and they ended up killing her as well. So it was just totally the wrong place at the wrong time. And I feel like also, like I was saying back, you know, yeah, of course, like, of course, when you're that beautiful and stuff, the fact that she could be doing better, but then she's still kind of with this guy

who has like unsavory friends, it reminded me of the Dorothy Stratton one, where before she got the Playboy, he was this guy that like she's working at this cute restaurant where you could wear like kind of the sexy outfits or whatever, but it wasn't, wasn't she the one that was working at the restaurant?

Yeah, a place called Confetti's. And the boyfriend carrying her around, I don't like sitting there the whole time. And then they get their moment and they feel like, oh, they can't leave the guy that like was there when they to kind of help, like the Dorothy Stratton. Right. Couldn't get rid of him.

And then of course, if you don't know that story, the guy, Paul, whatever his name was, went insane when she went to break up with him. And she really was gonna be like a big star. Totally, yeah, she had a whole movie coming out, everything. Star 80 was like the name of the movie about her life. And also Pamela Anderson, she was, you know, got discovered at a game

with her boyfriend because they put her face up on whatever at the sporting game. And then she got to be like a poster girl for like a beer company. And it was another thing where it was like, oh, I don't know if I can leave this guy that I live with that's just from my small hometown. Yeah.

It's like a guilt complex. Yes. Yeah. And also because in all those kinds of cases, it seemed like the guy was a little bit more like encouraging or okay with her doing it or sent in the photos or took the photos or like and then you're like, ugh, and then you want to... And the other part is, because I remember this back from when I would go to the Playboy Mansion, I was like so not into like meeting anybody

or doing anything nefarious. I just like to go eat the food, take the photos. The girls were wearing the painted outfits. I like loved it. Would see like Carmen Electra there and blah, blah, blah. So then after I got married and I got invited to like New Year's Eve, I was like, oh, instead of bringing a girlfriend

for my plus one, I'm gonna bring my husband. And I remember when I called and I go, oh, and my plus one is, and I'm like, oh, instead of bringing a girl for my plus one, I'm gonna bring my husband. And I remember when I called and I go, oh, and my plus one is, and I'm like, he's my husband now. And she, the woman on the phone was just like, absolutely not, this is a singles party. Oh my God. And I go, oh, well, I don't have to take him. And she like literally hung up on me

and I was off the list forever. Oh my God, whoa. And he wouldn't have cared. If like, he would have been like, you can keep going with your friends. He, you know? Yeah. I just thought it didn't occur to me by bringing him that I would then be off the list.

Yeah, that's abrupt. Because I would go to Halloween. Yeah. It was fun. And it was the best Hollywood party. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and so anyway, I think that's crazy. And also, so who was Hef's, because I was thinking about this era of like how they would, the play, there were a couple of playmates

that would like get on the love boat and stuff. Who was the one that he had for so long with the brown hair? Oh, Barbie. Barbie Benton. Barbie Benton. What was the deal with her? Because I feel like they were together a long time. I feel like she was always like on the Tonight Show as Hef's girlfriend. Yeah. But then they never got married. Yeah.

He had a whole other, well, at the time, his original mansion was in Chicago and then he bought the one in LA, which Barbie actually found that house. Barbie was from California and he would go back and forth. And Barbie was a playmate as well? She was in like a couple of celebrity pictorials. She wasn't like a playmate of the month, but she was on several covers. And when he would go back to Chicago, he struck up this other relationship

that got pretty deep with another woman. And I think that was a big thing that they couldn't really get over. Oh. Yeah. Okay. So then, yeah. So then she went off. So she wasn't a playmate. She was an actress in her own right or what?

Yeah, she actually, I have met her. She was an extra on the set of a show he was doing out in LA and that's how they met. And she was, you know, auditioning and doing things. And she did a few country music albums and then she was on Hee Haw. Oh. Yeah. And then whatever happened to her?

Oh my gosh, well, she, it's so funny you bring her up because Bridget and I are recording these episodes that's like the season three finale of Girls Next Door, because that's what we're watching. And she's in that episode. She was on like five different episodes of Girls Next Door. And she's such a character and such an interesting person. She was a lot of fun. So there was no weirdness between you and her or anything or like was there anything that... No, there was at first, but I don her or anything or like was there anything that?

There was at first, but I don't feel like it was because of her. It's because the show wanted to like pit us against each other. I always wanted to like cut to my resting bitch face and be like, look how jealous she is. So that I didn't like. I didn't like any of that, but we got to know Barbie over time and she was really cool. Yeah. Okay.

So this, this other one, this was back, this is Adrienne. Adrienne Pollock. Pollock. And this was back about when girls were really wearing the outfits and like working at the clubs, and it was a big deal for all these businessmen to have the keys and go to the clubs. And like, how was it, I was like thinking like,

you know, my dad was a member in Chicago. And then even after he was married, he would like bring clients there and stuff like that. I don't know, I guess, I mean, my mom didn't care, but like, I was like, our girls, were girls like meeting the patrons and like, falling in love or having- They weren't supposed to be.

But we do have another case, not this one, another case this season where a woman gets involved with a married doctor who was a customer at the club and that didn't end well. But they weren't supposed to. It was really against the rules for the bunnies to date the key holders and they weren't supposed to even give was really against the rules for the bunnies to date the key holders, and they weren't supposed to even give out their last names

or anything like that. Well, see, this is the thing. This is how I feel about dancers or cheerleaders of professional football games and Laker games. They kind of do that same thing. They don't want them to, I'm like, what the fuck is the point?

What, I mean, honestly, they don't make them to, I'm like, what the fuck is the point? Honestly, like you're not, they don't make a lot of money, the dancers. And I get it, it's to perform. But in this case, like I would think if I was an attractive girl and I got the job and it's all these young businessmen, and this is 1960, whatever, I would be like, I'm hoping to meet

like an up and coming like finance executive. I'm wearing this cute outfit, I'm charming, I'm hoping to meet an up and coming finance executive. I'm wearing this cute outfit. I'm charming. I'm serving their drinks. I guess if you did, you were supposed to quit. I don't know. But they were making really good money for women at the time. Oh, they were?

Yeah. So you would want to work there, even if you're not just going to meet people there. But this was also during the time where they thought that there was like drug trafficking going on. Yes. Yeah. You know, the authorities were really trying to catch Heff doing something for whatever

reason. They were just annoyed with him. So they caught one of his secretaries, not this woman, but one of his secretaries with cocaine and were trying to get her to like testify against Heff. And she ended up killing herself around the same time. And then this woman was living at the mansion for a while and going on trips with everybody and flying on Heff's private jet.

And she would write letters home that made some of her friends think she was like, kind of a drug mule for these guys sometime. And then she ends up mysteriously dead of an overdose out of nowhere. So the family really feels like they have a lot of unanswered questions. And now in her system, it was the Queloads, which was like the drug of choice.

Even up to my era. Yeah. And because they would call them like thigh openers. Yeah, thigh openers or legs. And so it would just kind of make you loopy, but it wouldn't put you out like a... I don't think... I never took one, but I've heard people say if they took one and didn't know what it was,

they just trusted it, because like, have handed it to them and they're drinking champagne, they're out of it, and next thing they know, they're waking up and somebody's on top of them. So, yeah. So it can do a lot. So it can, maybe not as bad as like a GHB where you just completely don't know what happened.

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That's A U R A dot com slash defense. Certain terms apply, so be sure to check the site for details. Yeah, this one was really, this one was crazy, but also with the woman that then unfortunately killed herself, the letter that she left that's featured in your episode is a little... Yeah.

It was like they found a letter and it said, you know, I'm ending this world or whatever because you're thinking that Hugh Hefner did this and there's absolutely no way, like I could find it in here. Like it is... Yeah, she says something like he he's such a moral man. Hugh M. Heffner, also, that you would put someone's middle name. Okay, this was her suicide note. Though few will ever realize it, a staunchly upright, rigorously moral man, and I know

him well, and he has never been involved in criminal activity, which is being attributed to him now. This is the irony. But I have come to know that innocence is of small significance when compared to the real purpose and intent of the various government agencies engaged in pursuing him and leveling their harassment against me to the masses. So therefore, I'm going to end my life. Yeah. I mean, come on. I'm not saying that he ended her life, but this note. It seems like a lot. I mean, granted, you could look at it as if you're in the state of mind to

end your own life, you could be thinking all kinds of weird things, but it does seem, it seems like a plant or something. Yeah, like come on. It's like, yeah, like he's so moral and so fabulous and there's no way. I mean, I'm not saying he had anything to do with her death or that he was a trafficker, but just very convenient like that the person who they were looking into for your criminal activity happened to kill themselves and then write you a glowing recommendation. Yeah. It's very strange.

It really is. Yeah, so then why did all those clubs end? Because they just were not profitable anymore? Yeah, I think things changed. You know, the clubs opened up in 1960. This was like the Mad Men era when people were going out to these really decadent business lunches.

And they'd go out and they'd want to see comedians and bands at the club and things like that. But then in the 70s, you get to discos and nightclubs as we know them now, and people weren't really going to the type of place that a Playboy Club was. So it just kind of went out of style. Just like how clubbing of the aughts

is totally different today. Totally. Yeah. Times change, it's crazy. Yeah, I was saying, so my dad was from that Mad Men era. And we were out with some people this weekend. And one of the people ordered gin. And I'm like, oh, gin's making such a big comeback.

And I'm like, you know. And I remember my dad saying gin was, it was a gin martini that started. That's what they used. But then the marketing around vodka was get a vodka martini because it has no smell. So you could have a three martini lunch and go back to work. I like that tidbit of information. That's interesting. Yeah. Now it's like everybody just goes, I'll have a vodka martini or what kind of vodka

do you want your martini unless you say gin. And yeah, that's okay. So we, okay, what was the, this was the bunny hunt. Okay. So this was the photographer. Oh my God. That case too. This case could be a mini series. This took place in the Tampa Bay area in 1983. And there was a serial killer that killed at least eight women, and they called it the summer of hell locally. And it started off, the Playboy connection is there was a club in the Tampa Bay area and they were having their bunny of the year pageant, which is something they would do every year at the Playboy clubs. And they hired this up and

coming female photographer to come photograph the bunny of the year pageant. And the next day, or I think it was, I'm not sure how much time had passed, not much time had passed since that event. She was found a shot in the head and raped and murdered. And then so that kind of kicks off this summer of hell, as they called it, where there was a serial killer killing all these women locally. And this case is just so crazy because they put an 18-year-old man in jail based on bite mark evidence, which was something that really caught on because it was effective in the

Ted Bundy trial. But it- And also we didn't have DNA. Yeah, no DNA back then. But it wasn't very accurate. They ended up putting this 18-year-old man in prison for 37 years, only to find out later because they took the old evidence. This is in the year 2000. They took the old evidence from the rape kit, from that woman's murder, and found, you know, based on the DNA evidence that that guy they put in jail was actually innocent.

And they found out who actually did it because the two men who did it were currently serving life sentences for something else. And they were in the database. So that's how they figured out who was doing it. But even crazier coincidence is after that photographer was killed, a year later, the woman who won the bunny of the year pageant

was found stabbed in her home. And she won and then got to go to LA. Yeah. And what was also unique is that she was a black woman and she was the only black woman running in the contest. And which is also interesting because Hugh really was someone, this is so long ago, and that wasn't even brought up or made a big deal.

It was just, she was the prettiest, she had the best personality, everyone really liked her, the people voted for her, and she won. And he did break a lot of, you know, at the time, like barriers, social barriers, and just putting people of color in front of people, you know, and made a difference. It's just like putting them, putting a different diversity

in media is really important because you see it, you accept it, and like, then hopefully it will make you a more accepting person in your own life. But yeah, and so then, but they, what happened with her? So that happened in LA, her crime in LA? No, she won a, when you win the contest, you won a trip to the mansion. So she went to the mansion, but then came back.

Oh, okay. And she ended up being stabbed in her own home. And that murder is still unsolved. They haven't found out who did that. They know it wasn't the same two men who were doing the other killings because they had already been put in prison before she was killed. So that one is still unsolved. It's like reading these yesterday, I just like oh I understand why that whole conversation of like would you want to be left in the woods with a man you don't know or a bear. I know. It's just I feel like these bunnies were like hunted literally like real bunnies are being

like it was just it was scary it was such like an unsafe situation and that was around the Bundy years and just people being like, oh, I think I'd like to go and just kill some people. It's just so interesting. But during this era of these contests and things, it reminds me of the Tropicana Contest. Remember the contests? Like the Hawaiian Tropic? Yes, the Hawaiian Tropic Contest. And would there be a crossover a lot with that, with like the girls that would do the

Hawaiian Tropic and then go to Playboy? Was it ever like, well, if you were already featured in that, we don't want you? Or was there ever any exclusivity where it was like someone would come along and they weren't as fresh of a face because... Well, a lot of girls would become a playmate, would come from Hawaiian Tropic. I worked for Hawaiian Tropic before. I thought you did.

A bunch of playmates in that era worked for Hawaiian Tropic before they came to Playboy. And now, does none of that exist anymore? No, it's crazy. Why doesn't it? Because it's just too sexist? I don't know. It's a good question.

I'm fascinated by businesses that are really successful and what do you do with that business once it's not politically correct anymore? Like I think the same way about Hooters. I worked at Hooters in college and I loved it. I thought it was such a fun job. But what do you do when that's your company and it's no longer politically correct? Like how do you pivot? Where is Hooters right now? Well they said they were going bankrupt but now they're not. I think there's just less restaurants than there used to be.

I remember with flight attendants back in the 60s too, because I had a second cousin, whatever that was, one, and they would weigh you. And then it was another job. Either you went, only a handful of women were going off to college at that time. And oftentimes encouraged to be like a nurse or a teacher. And then if you didn't do that, a really great job was either being, and you were attractive, is like doing the playmate or being a secretary,

which you didn't need college, you could have gone like secretary of school, or the flight attendant thing where again, again, you might, like, meet a businessman. But also, it put women in a place to, you know... Travel. Or be seen as just the girlfriend or the promiscuous girl or whatever. And so during that time, like, they would,

you got to be, like,, I think in age, weight, you wore the really cute, sexy outfits. I miss old flight attendant outfits. I think those are so cute. I mean, I've never seen them in real life. So I shouldn't say I miss them, but like when I see pictures, they just look so cute. You know, really it was such an elite thing to do.

So people did dress up and they were also flying for like business meetings. So it was mostly men. And I remember my dad would come home and have all the little bottles of alcohol, like they'd give it to him or whatever. And so he'd have these extra bottles of alcohol. And he was like,

oh, they would do these drinking games on the plane. Yes, and they would be like, okay, for a free drink, guys, who has the largest hole in their dress sock? And whoever had like the largest hole. I thought you were going to say something totally else. I'm sorry, I just realized that. But it was like, they were like playing games like that.

And I'm like, this is so flirty. Yeah. And so then I remember my mom. Okay, so my dad had this niece, but because she was adopted, it wasn't, but still it was his niece. And so she's the flight attendant. She brings over another cute flight attendant for dinner. And my mom makes this like great dinner and everything. I was like, all these kids.

And then the niece is like, thanks so much for dinner, Pam. Uncle Bob and I and like Marissa, we're just going to, I want to toodle off. I want to show her off, I wanna show her that fun bar down the street. Oh my God. And my dad said, my mom looked at him like, and he was like, no, you guys just go ahead without me. But it was just like, it was just this whole,

there were women that, at that era, that then the housewives at home saw them as like, oh, those are the flight attendants. Yeah. Oh my God, it's crazy. It's such an interesting time. So do you think, when you talk about these political age, do you think this is ever, like now women have such autonomy, which if they want to use their looks in a more sexual way, they can go to like OnlyFans or whatever like that. How do you feel about that movement

towards where we are now, like with all of that? God, I don't know where it's going. I don't think people will ever stop talking about it. There's always gonna be people who hate it and there are people who accept it. And then when you do things like OnlyFans, there's always like kind of a downside to it and things like that. So there's gonna be people who come out of it regretting it and saying, don't do it. And then when you do things like OnlyFans, there's always like kind of a downside to it and things like that. So there's going to be people who come out of it regretting it and saying,

don't do it. And then there's going to be people who don't make all the money. It's just like never ending circle. Yeah. But it is. It's like, I was just thinking like, do strip clubs still exist? I mean, I'm sure they do in Vegas. Absolutely. Yeah. But people, people say that people don't go as much anymore. Like the younger generation really doesn't want to go to strip clubs for whatever reason. I'm curious why that is. Maybe they're just too addicted to porn on their phones.

I think you also have to sort of be introduced to it. So if none of your friends are going and they've never gone, I just don't think it like occurs to them to go. True, yeah. Like, you know, like I can't imagine, I don't know. I mean, I can't, yeah, like being like, okay, let's go. Like if it's not something you're doing or your boss isn't taking you.

And also just, I think they're like wiser this generation of men, knowing that these girls don't like you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I think, you know. They're just hopping on dating apps instead. Yeah, and it feels like they're watching Sopranos now

and they're like, ew, I don't wanna be that guy that's like... And also I think they do as a generation realize that's not cool to see women in a more disrespectful way or whatever. Also with the strip club thing, it could be that nothing's private anymore. You know, like men probably used to feel like they could go to strip clubs and no one would know.

But everybody's still gossipy and filming everything and taking photos of everything. Right, there'd be such a stand, or like have you seen the glitter thing? Yeah, yeah. Like, so it's like what women, so women who are like going to meet a guy, it's so hard to know if they're,

even if they're on the apps, if they're truly single, or they've got girlfriend, wife, whatever. So somehow they put glitter, right, on their bodies. But then are guys being able to realize what... I feel like you'd have to be a seasoned cheater to be like, I can't touch her because I'm gonna go home with this glitter on me. Yeah, so let's just switch gears, going to go home with this glitter on me. Yeah.

So let's just switch gears because we were talking about this before the show. So we've talked a lot about Megan and Penny and she's got her thing. I've said, look, I understand the criticism. Also, I'm like, girl, she's no longer making money with her husband in England. She's got kids to take care of. She's got this guy that I don't know what he's gonna do out here to make money. So she's doing all the things that all of us does.

She's got a little jam company. She's got a show, a cooking show. It's not a YouTube, it's on Netflix. I love that we all have a jam company. Yeah, we all have these side games. She's got the podcast. She's got whatever. She's got the podcast, she's got whatever. She's got shop with me.

These are my favorite jeans, whatever. But you were saying you saw something interesting on YouTube. Oh my God, there's this YouTube channel that keeps coming up in my algorithm. I don't know what I did to get there. I want to say it's called like Dan Wooten or something like that. I forget the name of it. But it's this guy who all he does, maybe it's not all Dan Wooten or something like that. I forget the name of it, but it's this guy who all he does. Maybe it's not all of his content.

I haven't gone to his page and looked, but everything that comes up every day is just, he has like a whole new setup and it's just criticizing Megan. And he'll have like these, you know, royal insiders come up and the way they go in and just criticize like the dumbest stuff, I watch it, I think,

cause it makes me feel better about myself because we all have these haters online. And I'm like, well, if people are going so hard over this stupid shit, then I don't feel so bad because I've never seen a woman get on TV and do the most bland things you can do. And people will find like evil intent in like everything she says.

It's wild. I mean, I just think in exploring it, it is fascinating. it is interesting. And obviously, people realize, oh, well, those videos do better than this because it's a more universal subject. Everyone who's known as Macon Markle is, but now the latest is that he had this charity,

Prince Harry, that he founded in 2006 in honor of his mother and it was, you know, for HIV AIDS unit in London, helped kids and everything. It's called Centibale. And now, according to these articles, it's in jeopardy or it's on hold or they want to get rid of him because one of the chair people was so annoyed with Meghan trying to do this trophy moment. And then after that moment, allegedly, he wrote her an email that now she says was on the verge of bullying. Whoa. He wrote and was like, kind of like, how dare you treat Megan like that?

She was, you know, whatever, trying to do something nice. And so that's where it is. So it's like another story that the public can get on and be like, this woman is ruining his life. And I'm like, all the things, take the royal stuff out of it, could happen to anybody. Low level drama. Anyone could like, a woman like have you move closer to their family away from yours because she's having kids and she wants her mom nearby.

Like granted it's England to California, but like, but then people go into all the other things, I get it, but I'm just saying in defense of her, because I've been oftentimes, you know, like talking, making fun of the same, but I've also been in defense of her a lot. And I think that's like one of the things. Now, this is another thing, like, you know, we don't know that after that, she was like,

wow, that was like really weird and disturbing. And he was like, yeah, you know what? I don't want that to happen again, because you're going to be with me at the next thing. So let me write this email. Yeah. And then it becomes this other thing. And so totally. And this was like his one thing that he was doing. Right. So now. Oh, no. I guess I can put a little block on the jams and make the string. I don't know. And then the other article that came out was from page six, Prince Harry's allegedly not overly happy with his wife,

Meghan using their kids to promote her brand. Well, I mean, those are her kids. And it feels like I'm just seeing like more of the back of the kids. Yeah. Yeah. I think somebody made that one up. What do you think is gonna happen with the two of them?

I don't know. I could imagine them staying together because they feel like they have to if they were having problems. Because wouldn't you feel dumb after all that, getting a divorce? Well it would be, yeah, you wonder when you're at that level. I always think when people go about even couples that seem happy, like even like Jada and Will before we knew about the entanglement and the slap and everything, when they would like wear matching outfits and gush about each other on Oprah.

I mean, I remember like working with the Wayans Brothers and being like someone had broken up like Tom and Nicole Kidman. And there was another breakup. And I was like, if Jada and Will break up, and they were like, oh my God, people lose their mind at that time. Once they did, it was like, okay, we've seen some weird interviews and we've seen some,

but when they were like wearing the matching outfits and talk gushing about each other, and this is my bonus son, cut to 10 years later, she's screwing the bonus son's friend. Like all that stuff. I think it's a lot. Like same with like a Chrissy Teigen and John Legend, like oh, relationship goals.

When like your persona is so like, we're this funny couple, we tweet each other funny things, it's all about our cute family. And it's like, doesn't mean you're gonna necessarily break up and get divorced, but you might have some like rough years. Mm-hmm. And feel extra like you have to hide it because there's so much invested.

Oh, the extra of like, we gotta stay in it when we really wouldn't want. Like, it is a lot. And I do think if they were to break up, yeah, like so many people would like fucking be dancing a jig and being like, I told you, you know, and nobody, why would you want that? Like they have two little kids, they're in their forties. I hope they do stay together and make it work and they have fun. And you know, he's just not a prince anymore. He's just not going to the

English factories and like shaking hands and cutting ribbons. But it is like a bummer that he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing with his brother, but at the same time, he was the spare. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Well, tell everybody where they can watch it and also listen to your podcast.

Playboy Murders, season three comes out Cinco de Mayo, May 5th, and it'll be on Investigation Discovery, and then later you can stream it on Max, and Girls Next Level is anywhere you find your podcasts. And for those of you who haven't watched it, there's already two seasons. Yes, so there's a lot to binge. Yeah, there's a lot to get into.

And so it was so great to see you. You look absolutely gorgeous. Thanks for having me, so do you. Everything, how's a lot to get into. And so it was so great to see you. You look absolutely gorgeous. Thanks for having me. So do you. Everything, how's the Vegas life? I love it. I love it. And the weather's perfect there right now.

So it's so great. And what's like the new hot Vegas thing to do? I don't know what the new hot thing to do is. I just like to go around and try different things. I like quirky places. Yeah, and your Instagram's really fun. Thanks to follow. You just went to a restaurant recently.

With the Singing Frog, is that the one you're thinking of? I don't know, but I like hearing, this is the place to go, and this was the meal. And no, it was a restaurant with an oyster bar, and then. Oh, that was at Palace Station, which is this kind of random, like off the strip casino. That's what I was kind of surprised about

because I was like, isn't that like the old part of Vegas? It is, and it's right by where I live. So it's where I go to watch movies all the time. That's the movie theater I go to. And we went to go eat at the steakhouse there. That was so good. And I show everything I eat, blah, blah, blah. And they have this like really famous oyster bar

that I haven't tried yet and like the line for it always goes around the whole casino. So I'll have to go back there and make a video about that too. But I was there with a couple friends, the two guys who are married to each other. And in one of my food shots, somebody sees a ring and in the comments, people are like,

where are you at with a married man? So that's like my new shtick because I always have to borrow one of my married man friends to like take me out. That's so true. You could, everyone. Yeah, if you have a gay best friend who's a man and he's married, yeah, you could really start some,

you could start some major rumors. Yeah, it's my new thing. Yeah, those are the only married men you'll have dinner with. I love it. Thank you so much. Yeah, this is great only married men you'll have dinner with. I love it. Thank you so much. Yeah, this is great. Thank you, Holly. I really love all your content. So great and juicy. Love it. Thanks.

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