Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Hollywood casting couch with Will and Grace Star, Megan Mullally

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

There is an update in the mystery death of the pastor’s wife. Drake’s security was shot in front of his mansion. Then, award winning actress of TV, film and stage Megan Mullally is here! We discuss auditioning for sitcoms and how the part she didn’t really want was the one that made her a star. The creative behind the hit sitcom Will and Grace changed the plot from the original pitch, thankfully. Megan shares about her decades long marriage to the hilarious actor Nick Offerman, including their age difference and childless joy. Then we get into what really goes into preparing to dress for awards shows and the stress of it all. We go through some of the looks at the Met Gala and the Roast of Tom Brady. Enjoy!  Go to https://Rakuten.com or download the Rakuten App. Membership is free, and when you sign up and shop today you get an extra 10% Cash Back Boost. Go to https://ProlonLife.com/JuicyScoop to get 10% off their 5-day nutrition program. Shop Juicy Scoop Merch https://juicyscoopshop.com  Get EXTRA Juicy on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Follow Me on Social Media Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Safe and Serial Data, and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up, woo woo. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. As always, I have a fabulous show for you. Do not forget to go to HeatherMcDonald.net and get all my latest tour dates in your city or maybe you want to go on a trip as I said, we've got Las Vegas in September

We've got Denver May 17th and 18th. Oh so many Pachanga With Chris Franjola everything is at Heather McDonald net and also that's where you join the patreon Okay, Drake not my son Drake the singer I talked about on the last episode how there's a rap battle thing going on with Kendrick Lamar and that they're dissing each other and saying things about each other in their different songs that are not flattering and accusatory. They're saying Drake likes younger women and things like that. It goes back and forth and there's a lot to the songs.

But here's the latest juicy part, which is scary. I hope this guy is okay, but there was a man part of his security team who was shot right near his house in Toronto. This is in front of Drake's house. They think that it was a drive-by. The police that are investigating it are aware of the Kendrick Lamar rap battle thing. So we don't know if he's involved at all, if this is a crazy fan, if this is maybe they were actually really just trying to get the security guard. Maybe he has a beef of his own or something.

Or maybe it was random. Maybe who, we don't know yet. But the guy was shot in the chest, he is in the hospital, and I hope that he's okay. But that is insane that that just happened. Update on the very sad and mysterious death of this pastor's wife named Micah Miller. JP is the pastor, and the church has cut ties with him as of yet. However, the latest news he said, my wife had died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. There was a lot of controversy, a lot of things about it that didn't seem right. She has shared information with others. There is a supposed diary slash

binder of all the abuse that she endured by him. We also found out that prior to marrying her he was married to a woman with five children who then he left her for, but he met her when she was only 14. So there's an element of grooming. She still was quite religious in her videos and stuff that she shared. She did suffer from some level of mental illness. She did spend a time in a mental hospital. She did believe that he was stalking her. She did try to get a restraining order against him. There was so much stuff that made the death of suicide questionable. And then there was stories saying, oh, the shot was from the back of the head.

How could she kill herself? Well, today the news did come out from the authorities in this town, which is Robinson County is where this happened. And they are saying it was self-inflicted. But now there's information saying that this county is, there's a lot of alleged corruption happening there and maybe this isn't all true. But regardless, this guy is coming off really weird and awful. And now all of his sermons are like available online. A lot of people have posted them because he was always filming them and streaming them because he's like this young preacher. And he had this girl that people said, oh, we don't, she said, oh, I'm not his girlfriend. Well, she's also a widow, this girl, and her name is Susie Skinner.

And her husband has died as well. And he married them. JP married the two of them. And then he died, and now they are supposedly together. And the way her husband died was he was a paraplegic or quadriplegic and he was in a wheelchair and somehow he fell in a pool and drowned. And then JP the pastor gave the eulogy for it and ran the service and that whole thing was odd. He's like, I'm so excited to be here.

And the video is almost like he's toasting him at a birthday party, not really celebrating his life. So it's very, very suspicious, lots of suspicious things about this. And this final bit of information saying, yes, in fact, it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound. We don't know if that'll make the story end or if more will come out about this guy in general. But that's where that is. So I want to give an update on that. Okay. And now for our very juicy interview with a Hollywood legend. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Very excited to have a first time guest. Multi, multi, oh my God, won so many SAG awards, Emmys, Golden Globes, best known from Will and Grace, but so many other things.

Megan Mullally, welcome to Juicy Scoop. So exciting. First, but not last time. Wow. On the show. I love your hair. Thank you. And it's so funny because you have such like a youthful,

young, like hip way about you, but when you were doing the show 20 years ago, it was like you were such like an older acting late. Like it's weird. Like when I was like, when I look at other things that you're in, I'm like, people must not even really recognize you that much when you're out because it was such a different look. No, it's funny, like Nick always gets recognized because for men too, there's nowhere to run. Who is your husband and how many years?

Remind everybody well, need to go to- Almost 25, Nick Offerman. Yes. Yes, so he gets recognized because when you're a guy, it's like, that's kind of what it is. And the distinct look. But no, I don't get recognized, but if I start talking, then I sometimes do.

But I also feel like your character from Will and Grace, that you were Karen, Karen, what a name. But was your voice, did you, okay, let's talk about how you got the job and how you created. First of all, the look thing. Yeah, that's interesting because- Did you come up with that yourself in reading the character or what? No, that was more their thing. But I don't, you know, I don't dress like that. I've never dressed like that. Right, that's more their thing, but I don't dress like that.

I've never dressed like that. Right, that's what I think is- That is exactly the way my mom dressed, pretty much, though. Very Nancy Reagan, very Gloria Vanderbilt, but on a budget, but you'd never know it. I never did that. Then, of course, the hair and all that is not the way- It's just not my thing. I don't even wear makeup in real life. And so yeah, they would always say at the end of the season,

like, do you want to buy any of the clothes? I was like, no. I'm like, are you sure about all these gorgeous, you know, designer things? I was like, no, no use. So your background was, you know, I saw that you were in a ballerina and then got into acting.

And of course you got a ton of guest roles before this killer role of Will and Grace. And I also read that you were up for Elaine in Seinfeld and tested for that. Yes. So what I know what it's like to come to the, what testing means is it's like you and two other people and they do your contract and they

and what's what's so heartbreaking about it is before you do the test you have to do the contract so they're you have these calls with your agents where they're like and then in year five you'll get this much. You're like why are we even doing this? I might not get it. I know. It's horrible. It's really yeah it's torture. But it's funny because I actually went to college with Julia Lou Dreyfus. She's so great. She's great. And so I still know her and everything. She's amazing. But yes, I was up for that.

And now when you said you went to college with her and you see people when you go on auditions, because I always remember this too. And there was a weird part of me that I wish I wasn't like this back then, but was, where you're like happy to see your friend but you're not happy to see your friend. You know what I mean? You're like, oh yeah! And there's always that conversation between everybody and one person's read. You know what always got me crazy is the girl that would be reading a full book before she's about to go in, she's not looking at her sides. And I'm like, that must be a psych thing where it's like, I'm not even gonna let this bother me.

I'm in chapter four. I'm so ready. Isn't that weird? And then there's the girls that spend the entire prep time catching up. Yeah, yeah, like they're not ready at all. Yeah. I know, no, but you know, I didn't see Julia there

because I think that what happened was there were a couple of us that were gonna test and then they ended up offering it to her because she had just done a show, I think for this, I guess it was, that was NBC, right? Yeah. So she'd just done some other show and then they were just like, oh, let's just offer it to her.

It was a known quantity, yeah. Now, how much time between that show starting and Will and Grace was there? I don't know. Will and Grace started in 1998, and I'm not sure what year. Because that was more like 90. I think it was probably like two, like 91, 92. I think it was.

93 maybe, Matt. I think it was definitely before 92. Yeah. I think it was like, or maybe it was around there. Yeah. Yeah, so it was a while. But I had done a few shows that never went anywhere, like 13 episodes or something.

And then I had gone to New York to do a couple of musicals. I did a revival of Grease in 94. And then I did this. What did you play? I played Marty, who sings Freddie, my love. Oh, so now are you... And then I did How to Succeed. And that was kind of a big break for me because

it was the female lead opposite Matthew Broderick, and it was a good production. And then from there I kind of, I would do it, yeah, from there that kind of led to Will and Grace. So did you consider yourself a singer or just musical theater? Like, what was your singing background? I think singing is really my best thing, or it was, yeah. It was always kind of my best thing. And I should have probably moved to New York after college and auditioned for Broadway shows, but I was dating this guy in Chicago and he said-

So wait, where did you go to college again? Northwestern. Oh, that's right. Yeah, and then I did theater in Chicago for a few years and then he said, well, where did you go to college again? Northwestern. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And then I did theater in Chicago for a few years, and then he said, well, let's just go to Los Angeles and see what that's like, and then we'll go to New York. Because he's an actor too. He was an actor too.

Uh-huh. And then he left me in Los Angeles after two weeks. And so then I ended up... I got an agent right away, and I got all these auditions, and I was like, well, I guess I'll just stay. And so I did. So when he left, you mean he broke up with you or he left LA after two weeks? He did not break up with me for about two years, during which time he refused to have sex with me. So finally I had to kind of,

you know, take matters into my own hands. Literally? Well, I was doing that, yeah. Wait, so what was the deal? Is he married to a lovely man today, or what is going on? He is very close to his parents and his, I don't know, I think. Do you know where he is today? Yes.

He lives somewhere in like the Pasadena area and he's married and to a woman and I think you know very happily married. He's a really nice guy, he really is, but that particular that might not have been his finest moment. But now then when you you know become a household name and everything, did you ever hear from him? Do you think he was watching your episodes with his... I talked to him. We got back in touch maybe about five years ago. And his wife actually came to see me and something. And we started talking and then I started texting with him. And then we did talk on the phone once. So the wife came to your show and you gave her a green room pass to say hello?

Yeah, yeah. And she was really great. Oh, so you were fine. Yeah, she was really nice. I mean, it's been like 157 years. I tried to get in touch with my old boyfriend. You did? Yeah.

From how long ago? You know what's so weird about it now? OK, so I have two boys boys and they're 21 and 18. And I know that you guys don't have kids. And I think that is so wonderful that that is becoming a normal thing. Always should have been normal. Always. One of the nicest things someone said to me is that my friend who got married, since got divorced, but she always was like, I'm childless by choice, I just don't see it in my future.

And I'm like, oh my God, that's so great, whatever. And one day she goes, do you know you're like the only person that didn't challenge me on it? And I'm like, probably because I have them. Like probably because I realized like, if you're not dying to have them, then you shouldn't have them, and you can have such a full, fabulous life,

and such a life of non-worry because I was thinking. So just earlier today, my son, he's so responsible and so great and he was not answering his phone and he helps cut some clips and stuff for me for social media. And he's in Arizona. He's supposed to come out tomorrow because he just finished his third year of ASU. And after one hour, I was kind of like, oh my god. This is it. He's gone. He's died. Like, I mean, then you go to these things, and I just go.

And so then my other son who's 18, I'm like, do you have? I didn't realize I didn't have the location because my husband has it. So I just always ask, and he'll go, oh, Drake's an hour away, whatever, but I never did that on my phone. And I kind of don't want to do it because I think it can make some moms crazy. But I'm like, Bren, I just want you to know

that you better always have your phone charged. And if I call you, it's a proof of life. You just have to say, I'm in class or whatever. You don't have to call me back that day. It's because I'm having a weird feeling. Anyway, he was asleep and his phone died. It was not a big deal, but like, ugh. I know, I know. I'm kind of like that with Nick a little bit too though.

You get nervous about him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do. Yeah. Well, everyone has some people in their life. And because of the phone, before the phone, I know. You wouldn't hear from someone for a day and you're like, oh, they just have to get back to their answering machine. But because there's a phone now, you don't hear back from someone for 15 minutes and

you're like, well, they're dead and what will I wear to the funeral? It's just saying the words. This Juicy Scoop episode is sponsored by Rakuten. Are you guys ready to shop? Rakuten's big give week is back. Get 50% cash back at hundreds of stores, including places like Ulta. You get splendid. Good American. Rakuten is how in the know shoppers get the best savings. They shop the brands they love and earn cash back on top deals. During Big Give Week, May 6th

to May 13th, the cash back rates are even bigger. I'll be shopping for fashion and beauty. You could save on everything you need for summer like clothing, outdoor gear and travel. Membership is free and when you sign up and shop today, you get an extra 10% cash back boost. That's an extra 10% cash back on top of the 15 percent cash back. You won't see higher cash back rates than these. Go to Rakuten.com or download the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Shoppers get it. But you know what you said about not having kids. I mean that's really true that um it I used to say that it was the last taboo to not have children because nobody does it, you know? Nobody did it, certainly from my generation.

And now it's, like you said, it's getting more and more common. But I was just saying to somebody yesterday how so many of my friends are so, like they love their kids. And I'm talking about really good mothers and the whole thing, who would just be like, ugh. You know, they just, and their kids are like grown or almost grown and they're like, oh God,

you're so lucky you didn't do it, blah, blah, blah. So it is interesting. I mean, I think everybody, it all works out the way it's supposed to work out. But I always say it's supposed to work out. Yes. But I always say it's the worry, like when someone goes, will I regret it if I don't have children? So like I sometimes feel girls come up to me like, I don't know if I have that urge

and you know, and I say, hey, listen, you know, if you're happy and you want to go off birth control and it happens, then great. But also you're in that great place that if it doesn't happen, you're not going to go to the umst degree and be heartbroken and all that because you don't care that much. So just like kind of put it out there. And if it doesn't work out, then how great for you,

if you know what I mean? Yeah, and I think also if you're in a place financially where you can't afford to, you know, have your own life and feel like you're able to be creative and stuff, then that could make you a lot more resentful. I did read a study years ago, this was probably 10 years ago, that's some crazy statistic, like 78% of women who had kids said they wished they hadn't had them.

Oh really? And I sound like I'm anti having children, I'm not. I'm just kind of to your point saying, I just never had an organic burning desire to have children. I think that's really interesting and just what people don't talk about, because it's like I had such a burning desire

and knew that I was like, I remember one time, I was like 26 or 27 and I wasn't in a relationship and I was like, well remember one time I was like 26 or 27 and I wasn't in a relationship and I was like, well, even if I'm, because I used to come home and like turn on the TV and whatever, watch like an old rerun of Jerry, you know, Jerry Springer. And I was like, you know, even if I'm by myself, like I'm going to have, I'm going to be a mom. Like I just was like, I will have, I just, from the moment I was little, it was like baby dolls. Like I was very into wanting that experience. So for me, I would have made it happen.

And then for other people that struggle with it, my sister was struggling with fertility and she had a friend who had no desire to have kids. And I said, does it make you envious of her? And she goes, yes, you know, because she's very happy in her marriage and it's nothing that either of them wanted. And she never had to go through the journey of wanting it and not being successful at

it or whatever, you know. It's just, but no, I think it's so interesting and so great. But, you know, people need to really tap into what they want in life. My mom wanted to have literally 10 children. Like, she would have been happy having 10 children. How many did she have? Just me. And she could get pregnant.

She had a lot of miscarriages. So she couldn't get pregnant for many, many years. And then she had me. And then she had a lot of miscarriages. But then I got the thrill. So did she ever give you any pressure to have kids? Well, I think she would have been thrilled if I had a child. But you know the other thing is I never, you know I was 41 when I met Nick.

Right and he's a little younger than you right? He's more than a little younger. He's almost 12 years younger. Nice, hot. And the cast of Will and Grace was on Oprah once and she said, he's younger. And I said, yeah, 11 and a half. She goes, 11 and a half. So now I say 12.

I was really like humiliated, publicly humiliated by Oprah. So anyway, yes. So I was a little, it was a little late in the day for me to have kids. Although I have to say, we did try kind of the old fashioned way for, you know, like a year or so, but it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah. You know, we both have been so busy and everything that I think Nick, who probably, if he'd met and married somebody else, would have had kids, you know?

He was never, like I think he went that far, but he wasn't like absolutely dead set on having children. And so he has never been like traumatized about not having children either. I think, and I think this is something that not a lot of people say either, I think most guys wouldn't, I think it's really rare that that's the thing that makes the guy say no to a woman. Like leaves her while they're married or oh we got this close and found out you didn't want to have kids, I'm out. Most guys, because they're not the ones carrying it or whatever, they can be a great father,

it's just a different thing. Where a woman, if she really wants to have a child and a guy's like, absolutely not, either she's like, well, I'll change him, which is a horrible idea. Or she is like, well, then goodbye, because I really want to have that kid. Or sometimes when a woman marries an older guy and they're like the second wife, they'll say, oh, I don't want him. And then they have, and then they make sure, well, you better give me one or I'm leaving. And then the guy's like, God, I didn't know I was going to have a baby at 53.

You know? Well, you know, so it's like, good that everyone's like kind of on the same page and then there's enough there that whatever happens. But the whole reason I got on this was not to talk about all this. But I was going to say, so looking now that my boys are older, it's such a weird perspective to understand, like when you're in high school and you're a girl and you're like a boy or post college or whatever,

like, oh, I wonder what they're thinking and da da da. And now that I like have the boys, I'm like, when I tried to find this old boyfriend of mine, and he was like, oh hey, how are you, and I wanted to talk to him more because I just wanted to know what was going on in his life. And he was like, I don't know why you're trying to get a hold of me, we dated when you were 30 years ago,

like he was a little bit rude, but he wasn't rude, he was right, I broke his heart. Oh, you broke his heart. I broke his heart, and then I was like, hey, it's me again. Like, and I'm married and I have no intention of like fucking you. I just kind of wanted to like figure out what you were like.

That was a big part of your life. I was just curious because you weren't anywhere on social media. We found, I had someone do some research, he wasn't married. And I was just kind of like, oh my God, we did have such a fun time. I just didn't want a serious boyfriend at that time.

But I also like completely broke your heart. And now that I have boys that age, if some girl did that to them, I would be like, fuck that bitch. Like it's so, was so weird when you start raising boys. Cause for your whole life as a girl, you're like, you know, your girls are like kick into the curb and fuck them and then when you have them, you're like,

what did that bitch say to you?? It's like a completely different thing. And I'm like of course you didn't want it. Why would you want to deal with me? And I'm a comedian. He's like I don't need you to fucking put me in your act or something. I get that. You know it's like. Okay so getting back to Will and Grace. So Will and Grace was such a great script. And I can't remember if I heard this on a talk show or if I was told in person. But the story that I heard of how the show came about was whoever was the creators of it were pitching a show about, let me think, it was like, yeah, they were pitching a show about a couple that then had a best friend couple that was a gay guy and a girl.

And then they said, that's the show we'd rather have is the couple that's the gay guy and the girl, not these other people. Yeah. It was this guy, Warren Littlefield, who ran NBC back in the day. Oh, yes. Okay. And he was great. And he was the one who said that. And everybody bridled against it.

Everybody else said, no, no, you can't do that. You can't have gay people, you know, anywhere. I know, but it seems so crazy now, but it was so groundbreaking. Yeah, it was the first, I mean, so Ellen had come out, her character had come out on her show. Several seasons in, yeah. Yeah. And immediately got canceled, right?

And so then, but she really did set the stage, you know? And then the only other gay character I could think of was there was a show called Soap way back. Yes! Billy Crystal's character was gay, but that was a big ensemble and he was just one of the characters. But that's all I can really think of.

Well, you know, there was this other show that my mom loved, which was the original reality show. And they actually did a... Oh, is it called, like, American Family? Yes, and they were like this family in, like, a, you know, Santa Barbara, and they brought in the cameras, and it was PBS. And in it, like, one of the,

I think one of the boys came out, and then, but it was real life, and then the guy was having, was cheating, and then they did like a movie about it recently, maybe in the last 10 years. And so that was just so like, oh my God, you know, like such a big deal. And, but no, I remember the Billy Crystal character

in Soap, yeah. Why did they call that show Soap? It wasn't a soap opera. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe, yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, that's interesting. So, okay, so then did you, okay,

so let's talk about the auditioning process. So did you get the script before and just prepare like you would any audition or? So I auditioned for Grace originally. Oh, okay. And they were like, no. And then I forgot all about it. And you know, weeks went by and I get this call, like they want you to come in for this pilot,

well, and Grace and I was like, I went in and they said, oh, it's for this other part. And I was like, I went in and they said, they said, oh, it's for this other part. And I was like, what other part? I didn't even remember it. So they sent it to me and I was like, I don't like this part. I don't want to go in. Why didn't you like her? Well, it was totally different. It was not written the way it, it evolved into the thing that we remember as the character of Karen. But the character of Karen was, I thought,

very much like Christine Baranski's, she was the sidekick to somebody on, Sybil, maybe? Yeah. Yeah, and it was very much like just this rich sidekick, best friend who had like a zinger here and there, but just did a lot of shopping and more a lot, which, you know, Karen did all of those things too,

but there wasn't anything very different. And I was like, I feel like Christine Bransky already did that recently. And they were like, well, just go in. And so I went in and then they were like, well, they want to test you at the network tomorrow and you're the only person. And I was like, so then the next day, it was tomorrow,

and it was an hour before the test and I was in my pajamas eating a plate of eggs and my agent called, she was like, are you going? I was like, I don't know. Wait, why did you feel like you didn't want it? Because I didn't- That's so interesting. I didn't feel like I could bring anything to it,

you know, anything different. So when you went and auditioned the first time as the character of Karen, you didn't dress like this? Or what were you dressing up? I didn't have any fancy clothes. So I wore a vintage, I wore a skirt that I had cut off with a pair of scissors below the knee, black tights, big platform shoes, and some kind of shirt and a vintage leopard print, like really kind of bad like coat, you know, jacket, coat. Yeah. And so yeah, I didn't have anything else

that looked kind of fancy, but no, I really just thought like, I was kind of over pilots at that point, because like I said, I was 41, and I had done a pilot like every year or a show that didn't go past seven episodes or 13 episodes, and I was kind of over it. And I think I was just like,

if this isn't gonna be funny or good, then what's the point? Like get somebody who really is dying to play this part. And so then I decided, you know, I obviously then did decide to like get up and change out of my pajamas and go over there and do it. And even the pilot, I was like, kind of, I mean, it was fun, and Sean Hayes and I

didn't have any scenes together, but we really hit it off. You just hit it, oh my gosh, okay. And so that part was really fun. But then I was kind of in the scenes, like in the actual playing of the scenes, I was slightly miserable, because I knew that it wasn't really that funny.

And I couldn't, like, you can't make it something that's not. And I wanted to be like really funny and really different. And the other characters were really funny. And I was like, you know, I'm the least funny. So then over the course of, you know, then it got picked up and over the- And then how did you feel when you got picked up? Were you like, eh? Or were you like, okay, great,

this will go for 13 episodes and then it'll get canceled and I got this check and who cares? Well, no, you know, something really funny happened. This guy, I can't remember his name now, but he was a guy who was like, I don't think he was working at the network, but he was like a really rich guy who was like a friend of somebody who was working at the network, but he was like a really rich guy who was

like a friend of somebody who was like running the network or something. And he came to the set one day when we were shooting the pilot and he basically told us, he gave his gold lighter to Deborah Messing who was trying to light a cigarette and he handed it to her and she tried to hand it back, and he was like, keep it. And she was like, what? It was a Cartier lighter. And she was like, I can't keep it.

And he was like, oh, you can keep it. This show's gonna be around for a long time. And then when the show got picked up, he sent us all Cartier lighters. Anyway, so then we thought- And he was just what, someone's friend? We thought he must know. Well, he was a friend of somebody who

was running the network. Oh, wow. So we thought, oh, he must know what he's talking about. Or maybe he did work at the network, but he was also a really rich guy in his own right. And so then it did get picked up. And as it was kind of going along, I sort of started just instinctively, because I'm not a very, I'm more of an instinctual actor than a, I don't know, I'm not as analytical

about that kind of stuff. Or it's a little bit of both. And I started, kind of my voice started getting higher and higher. It's pretty high to begin with, but it started getting even higher. And then it was about the 10th episode. And I feel like it wasn't, I feel like Michael Patrick King, who did Sex and the City, he went on to do Sex and the City. He had done a lot of stuff before that, but he was a writer on Will and Grace briefly,

maybe for the first 10 or 12 episodes. And he had written this episode. And it took place at the end of the 10th episode. And it was a really, really good episode. And I think it was a writer on Will and Grace briefly, maybe for the first 10 or 12 episodes, and he had written this episode, and it took place at the Ice Capades. And this was when I really remember the character coming into being.

I had brought in a lot of things like saying honey and just all the physical stuff and everything. And then we're sitting there at the Isopades and it's just the audience for the whole time and Karen's sitting there. And of course, Karen and the Isopades do not mix and they had sat this woman next to me, this atmosphere person who was not-

Like an extra, you mean, yeah. A great beauty, yes, shall we say. And she was not thin and she was aesthetically not Karen's thing. Karen's type, yeah. A great beauty, yes. Yeah, okay. Shall we say. And she was not, you know, thin, and she was, you know, aesthetically not Karen's thing. Karen's type, yeah. Yeah, and so I just remember that episode, like I had all these sort of unwritten things with her where I was just, or, you know, kind of improvised.

I was like, honey, you look so pretty. Like I was giving her compliments, even though you knew that it was really costing Karen to like be in this close of proximity to somebody who wasn't. So yeah that's when I remember it really like coming together for me. That is so fun because like with all the stuff that you guys would do. Now how many seasons was it? It was eight seasons and then we did a reboot that was three but we did 246 episodes and Jim Burroughs directed every episode.

So then was it always kind of like, then it becomes sort of just such a school type of thing where, okay, this is when we come back, right? Like, oh, we're starting, this is when we take the promo photos, this is when we come back, this is when the premiere date is. This is when we go to up fronts. And it must have been feeling like such a fun, like routine of your life. Was it so strange when it ended? Yes, it was, you know, I think as a, as you know, working in the arts,

it's so rare to have a job that goes for eight years. Like if you're an accountant, that's a drop in the bucket. Right. But to have a job for a long period of time is so rare and it was great and it was, you know, like a 20-minute commute right over the hill and all of that stuff was so great. And yes, when it ended, it was very traumatic. Like, we all cried a lot. And, you know. And why did it end? Well, it shouldn't have ended.

It should have gone for at least, I think it should have gone for two or three more seasons. I think they just thought, oh, you know how it is, the networks, they just think, well, there'll be like a billion more of these. We don't need to keep paying these people a lot of money because there'll be so many more. And of course, there weren't any others. And it's so interesting during that time of just the height of sitcoms where it was your

show, Friends, Seinfeld. And then that's what I was auditioning for stuff and never getting it. And there were so many copycat shows where you just know they got the writing orders to do another Will and Grace. Do a Friends. How about Friends in San Francisco? How about Friends in Alaska? So many Friends rip-offs.

And they were never funny. That's the problem is they just weren't funny. None of them were funny. And they, you know, now this sitcom is just kind of dead. I mean, there's maybe one or two that, you know, people watch, but hardly any multicam shows. That's kind of, but you know, I think they just thought, oh, there'll be so many more and this will just go on forever and ever.

But they should have, they should have tried to, they should have beat the horse till it was dead. You know, they should have really run it into the ground until people were like, you know, bashing their television sets in with the baseball bat because they're so sick of it. You know, I think that's what they should have done. I can't even remember what happened towards the end. She got married, right? We never see your husband. Don't we never see your husband? Isn't that one of the things?

You never see him. You saw like a few body parts. Like you saw his foot one time and you saw like a really hairy arm. You saw his shadow and the shadow was like gigantic. It was so great. Cause you're just, you know, this little like gold digger that puts up with it. I love that we never saw the husband.

I thought that was a great move. And then wasn't it that Grace did get married or was going to get married? She married Harry Connick Jr.'s character and then they split up. And then I think Will married somebody and then they split up. And then at the end, there were like dream sequence, there was a dream sequence, but we all, it kind of cut to us all 20 years later, the finale. And everybody looks older except Karen looks exactly the same because she's had so much work.

That was funny. And, but I feel like I was so lucky on that show to have all these, you know, so, I mean, I had Sean Hayes, who's one of the great comedic actors ever. And, but then I also did a whole season with Alec Baldwin, who is one of the great comedic actors ever. Yes. And Leslie Jordan. Oh, yes. Jordan. Oh yes.

Who played Beverly Leslie. And you know, he and I had a very special working relationship. I also did a whole season with John Cleese that was like, it was the sixth season. And I was basically in my own world where my character gets married to John Cleese, or almost gets married to John Cleese or almost gets married to John Cleese and my daughter-in-law is Minnie Driver and the

three of us had I barely even saw the other cast members that year it was so fun though did you ever think that they would ever do like a spin-off or something well no I mean you know not of that but I mean that would have been great but you know they did they had talked about spinning I think they wanted to spin off Jack and Karen, but then I don't think Sean wanted to do it for some reason But then they were gonna spin off my character Then they spun off Joey from Friends and that did not go right and I think then they got cold feet Maybe yeah. Yes

Okay, let's talk about like awards show. Now you would go to so many awards shows. How many you've won? You've been nominated for like how many Emmys? Eight or something. I don't know. I won twice. Yes.

But I was nominated maybe six times. I wasn't nominated for the first two seasons. So six. When you got nominated, cause I know you've also won seven. Oh and then I was no, I was seven because I got nominated for the first two seasons. So six. When you got nominated, cause I know you've also won SAG. Oh and then I was, no I was seven because I got nominated during the reboot too. Okay. So you've been nominated a bunch of times.

You've gotten, you've won. You've gotten to go up and give your speeches. Yes. Also for SAG, also for Golden Globes. Yeah. I won four SAG awards and yeah. Now, how do you come up with your speeches and how do they change for each thing? The first time you were nominated, was that a more like unique speech because it's the

first time and you may never come again. Yeah. You know, I always had this thing where I didn't, as a viewer, I didn't like it when people think they're agents and managers and lawyers and stuff. Yeah, you're right. That is so boring. And so I never did that., you're right. That is so boring. And so I never did that. But you're right.

That's not good. It's actually not good content. You're right. I think my agent and manager weren't very excited about that. But I just thought, what are we doing? I get it because. Why does a person in Oklahoma care about my lawyer?

Yeah, you're right. They'd rather hear a more intimate story of how you got there. So I always thought, like try to say something that is, has, that's more inspirational that will, so that whoever's watching can apply it to their own lives. That's like a general things. Not about being an actress, but just about being like a human being. Although I will say I did break that rule once, which was the last time I won an Emmy. It was for the last season of Will & Grace.

I thanked some of the crew because I thought they never get anything. And then they start playing me off, you know? Yeah. Because that was boring. But yeah, that was the only time I got played off. But yeah, so I tried to think of things that were sort of could apply to anybody.

And so what do you remember some of the things that you said that you like? I think I remember my first Emmy speech more, which was I just saying like, you know, kind of like to boil it down to its essence, like dreams can come true or just, you know, keep, keep the faith and persevere. You know, you never know what's right around the corner. And then how do you decide what to wear each time? Oh, God. You know, I can never get clothes sent to me. I never got a dress. Are you kidding?

Listen to this. When I hosted the SAG Awards, which was about five years ago, I hosted it. So you know I'm gonna be on camera. Could not get one dress from one designer. So you have I'm gonna be on camera. Could not get one dress from one designer. So wait, so you have to get a stylist to like go to Neiman's and pick out dresses? Like a regular person? No, I have to go online. I bought all my dresses. I had three or four dresses for the Saga Awards. I had bought them all online from like

Saks or something. Well do they cover those? No! Wait, do you get paid to do it? No! You don't get paid to host the thing? To do the sag? Uh, I don't think, I don't know how much you get paid. They cover your hair and makeup. I don't think you really get paid. Oh my gosh.

I think they pay for like, so I had one writer, so he and I wrote all the jokes. Yeah. I think they paid my writer, yeah. Yeah but no I could never get the first Emmy I did get a dress that this is a good story. So Donna Karen, they were like Donna Karen wants to make you a dress and they sent me a sketch and I was like great I mean I was so starstruck I would have worn like a you know a pickle barrel if they'd said that it was from Donna Karan, even though I couldn't care less about Donna Karan. I barely knew who it was. And so I wore this

dress and it didn't fit very well. And my right boob was threatening to fall out for the entire night. And I remember I saw Bill Maher backstage. He goes, you look great. And I said, I look like an old hooker on our last good night out. Like, I just didn't look that good. So. Did he laugh? Yeah, he did. Now, OK, you're telling a story, and I understand it.

And I've heard stuff like this from like 20 years ago, or even 15, where, you know, and then it's like, I remember watching Rachel Zoe as a stylist. And I was like, how do people get their dresses? And I remember this one girl was friends with this girl who was, this is like 15 years ago, was dating Ryan Seacrest. And he would say, come with me to all these things.

But according to this story of people, Ryan, he was not helping her with her budget to get these dresses, and she wasn't on a level to get anything for free. And now, you know, there's, for the regular people, there's Rent the Runway, there's a lot of, you know, things like that, but, but it's like, who are all these people that are just like, oh my God, we'll help you put this whole look together?

I mean, I don't really, like I think people think that that is the case because they see it like on the Kardashians and Kim has that. But I think a lot of people that are in this game do not have access to that stuff. Well, you know, I had stylists over the years. I don't do it anymore. I had stylists over the years. I don't do it anymore.

I had stylists over the years. And you have to pay the stylist a shitload of money, first of all. Like how much do you think? So much. So like you'd get a stylist if you had an award ceremony. So if you had an award season back in the day where you are going to like the Spirit Award,

you're going to like 10 things, then you probably need to hire someone and then they get all the dresses and then could they get them for free or no? You still have to pay for them? No, not for me. They couldn't get them for me. And these are big stylists. We're big stylists. And the designers would just be like, sorry. And so sometimes I would use this woman, Lori Eskowitz, who did the costumes for Will and Grace, she was great. So sometimes she would help me, but then I'd pay her separately as a stylist for an award show. But the thing about stylists is not the one from Will and Grace, she was lovely, but a

lot of the people I hired over the years, not only do you have to pay them a lot of money, but they're all crazy. And they come with their own baggage. Like they come blowing in, like absolutely spinning out and like flipping out and have with all a lot of, you know, just some problems. So I have thought, God, and then the other thing is I didn't ever feel comfortable. I always felt like, let me just kind of do my own

because I know at least then I'm gonna feel, I didn't do that during Will and Grace, I did it later. But at least I'm gonna feel comfortable. Like for a talk show or something, I'd rather just pick it out myself because I'm gonna feel better. Yeah, I feel that way about hair and makeup. And I do the few times I've gotten that, you know, of course I would do it when I was on

Chelsea lately and I had a great relationship with that girl and stuff. But then it just took like one time to go with a bare face and hate what they did. To now I always, I'll always do my own hair and makeup, but then I'll be like, zhuzh me up, contour it a little bit more, tease the hair a little more, whatever. But I come, because I'm like, that will stress me out before an appearance.

And then if I don't like it, then I'm thinking about the makeup artist point of view. And then I'm thinking about the makeup artist doing a TikTok about how I was a bitch doing the makeup, which is now so like every day there's a there's a story about some stylist makeup artists hairdresser saying this person didn't pay me this person didn't tip me this person. Do they name the people? Oh yeah. Or they're like they didn't or they said they were going to tag me and they didn't.

And I'm just like, God, I mean, I just want to thank God I can do my own stuff because I'm like. That's horrible. It really is. And people are just dying for the bad stories about people. They're just dying for them. So like you could have met one person one time. And then it's like, well, good luck anyone else hiring you. But at the same time, like it's just better to do your own because then also if I stress too,

so you're not going to be a delight getting ready before a major event. You're going to be nervous. You're not going to be thinking about the feelings of the girl that's teasing your hair. And you never have as much time as you think you have. So you're always rushed. And then what happens with me, if I don't, if it doesn't,

if I feel like my hair or my makeup or both don't look right, then I go upstairs and I try to fix it. Yes, yes, I've done that too. And then their feelings are hurt. And then I'm like, oh, no, I know it is so trying. It's not as fun as you think. It is stressful. It's not as fun as you think.

Because like, I remember like as a young girl, I'd be like, oh, if I could be a model. I thought about comedy and things like that. I always thought about being an actress. And I always loved watching the awards shows. But when you'd watch someone with a fan flowing like a Brooke Shields, and I was like, oh, to do a photo shoot and have people do my hair and make it.

And the first time I did that for like to get headshots, I was like, oh my God, this is so much more tiresome, more stressful and more like, like so not as fun as you think it is. There's nothing worse. I mean, I don't have a princess complex. Like I don't like to get dressed up. I don't have any dressy clothes.

I have nothing. Like if I had to go to something nice tomorrow, I couldn't go because I don't like to get dressed up. I don't have any dressy clothes. I have nothing. Like if I had to go to something nice tomorrow, I couldn't go because I don't have anything. And I don't like to get dressed up. And so I find it all very stressful. And photo shoots. Oh my god, when we started Will and Grace, like Debra Messing had done so many more shows.

And she had had so much. And Eric, they had had so much more experience doing interviews and photo shoots, and they were both really good at it, and very photogenic too, extremely. And so, they knew all the things, and they were so comfortable, and I was an absolute basket case, and so was Sean. And I remember we had, this is gonna sound, Donnie and Marie Osmond used to have a daytime talk show. Yes, I was on it, yes.

And early on we had an interview on set, all four of us. Oh no, I was just on her. She had one later on just by herself. Oh, Marie. Yeah, but okay, Donnie Marie, take one. And so Donnie came and he was interviewing us and we were on the set of Will and Grace. And we got done and I absolutely like, I walked off and I burst into tears.

I was so stressed out and I thought, oh, everything I just said was so stupid. Not that they cared about me. They were more interested in the people that they knew about. And oh, it was so stressful. I just, I couldn't get the hang of it. And I felt like it was so fake, and it is. And I felt like photo shoots are so fake, and they are. And so that's what's really hard about it. You have to know how to flip into that.

And have fun with it and everything. Okay, well, since we're talking about it really quick, I want to jump to the Met Ball. This girl. fun with it and everything. Okay, well, since we're talking about it really quick, I want to jump to the Met Ball. Um, Oh yeah. This girl, how do you pronounce her name? Anokai. What is she in? I don't know. I think she was the most beautiful of the night. I mean, that looks unbelievable. She wore a, this was a jumpsuit. What was the theme exactly? The theme was a good theme as far as pretty dresses because it was sleeping beauty in

the garden of whatever. So anything that looked, you know, like gardenies, like princessy, flowery, like really worked well. So there were a lot, you know how some years it's like all weird stuff. This was probably the most normal looking, pretty flattering stuff. I usually don't like it and I liked it this year.

I thought everybody looked really cool. Like I thought it was, yeah, I thought it was cool this year. And that some of the makeup too was just incredible. And I think though, this is what I always think about. And then I think about this with Four Awards Show too. So maybe like, whenever I watch him, cause I don't go to them where I mean, I've gone to like a red carpet, but it's never me, you know,

and my car is being held back. And I've never been in that situation, right? And there's just such a, so many questions I have, especially this. So you have all these people that put you in this outfit and do your makeup. So each person has like eight people, okay? Then they have to get in this van, and some of them have these big dresses, they have to like stand up in the van.

Then that takes them to the vet thing, and then they take the photos and stuff. And then what? Then after the photos, before they sit down for their chicken breast, then does the group come and then change them again and then take that big dress out? Like all of that logistic stuff, I can't- How can you even get certain dresses into- You can't sit down in some of them. So that's why they have a couple different outfits. But then where do they go to change that? Are they just going to the average bathroom inside? No, they must have rooms for people to change. Like I noticed that Zendaya, she had two or three

outfits. I love her. I think she's cool. She looked great. But did you see Cardi B? Yes. Like how do you get that into a car? So that outfit then she changed and she had just like a cute red dress on. Let me see if I have her. I don't know if I do, oh here she is.

So then when they went to the after party, she just showed up in like a normal red dress. Oh yeah. But like yes, but you know, I guess if you're going to do this thing, I feel like did this really, I feel like this wasn't a big deal like 15 years ago. The Met Gal, I feel like it's been exploded.

No, I know. I don't even remember it until about maybe 10 years ago. I do feel like the Kardashians kind of made everybody like want to do it. Everyone like, why are they here? I'm like, they're the only reasons anyone cares. So like, if you don't want them to come around anymore, fine. But like nobody, this has been going on for a long time and nobody really talked about it.

I think really just rich people went and gave their money. And then it became this whole thing that designers like bought tables and okay. So then we have Kim and she put out her own photos on her own Instagram before she walked on the red carpet. Oh look at her waist. Oh god. So okay the waist is really disturbing. That doesn't look good. That's creepy. It's so creepy and if you zoom in. But that's creepy. It's so creepy. And if you zoom in... But that's surgery. That's not... When you zoom in, it was like, it's like red underneath. Like, she's... it's so

tight and painful. And that's what people were saying. So in this photo... So this is real life. This is other people's photos. So she didn't doctor. No, this is the photo from... So that's when you take some ribs out, I think. Right? Because I don't think it could be like that. I mean, I don't know, but it said Kim Kardashian. This is just a comment. No, but she wore those trainers too, right? That traitor stuff is gone. Nobody talks about those traders anymore.

That used to be a thing. If you doesn't do that. So Kim Kardashian, once again, showing up in a look that does nothing but showcase how artificially small she can make her waist. It honestly was disturbing. Like it was, you know, she was the first person to do, she put the Ozempuk on the map. They won't say they did it, but she did that to get into the Marilyn Monroe one two years ago. How do you lose 14 pounds in

a week or two weeks or whatever? But then this is like, I don't know, it like pains me. Also that dress, I just saw a picture from the front and I was like, I don't, that wasn't my, okay, let's waist a side. No, and then Kim Kardashian's side. It's all the way sheer with the sheer butt. I'm so sick of the sheer look. Me too, I'm so over it. But I also felt like it wasn't my favorite look.

Just Kim Kardashian herself and her waist aside, I didn't just the dress itself. I thought there were so many other ones that were way, way better. And then everyone's like, what's with this weird sweater? And she said, the sweater was part of the theme. Like, I'm in a garden and it's my boyfriend's gray sweater And I put it on so she that was her backstory for this outfit Sleeping Beauty's boyfriend has a gray sweater. Okay Sure, then this is

Emrata Emily and so that she wore a whole sheer thing. What's her name? This is Emily right I got right a jet ski whatever and whole sheer thing. What's her name? This is Emily Radekowski, whatever. And she's very pretty and she's always, I don't know, she's just, and then the whole nude thing. I'm like. I feel like that was good for about, like six or seven years ago, that was good for a minute

when I was like, I can't believe I can see everything. But now it's like put it back on. Now I feel like you stand out if you don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't do it and you like are not showing your nips and your butt crack. Crazy, amazing boobs. Her boobs and her ass are amazing.

And I get it. You're like, why not? Cause otherwise I don't have that much going on, and I still have a great ass, and I might not have this ass forever. So if you're going to invite me, I want my photos. If I'm going to go through all this trouble, I want my photos to go somewhere. So I kind of see that. Like, you're not going to gain anything in being subtle at this thing.

Yeah. But I mean, it's absolute work doing all this. How is it legal, though? mean, it's absolute work doing all this. But I guess one- Is it legal though? How's it legal? Like, why is that not indecent exposure? I'm just curious. I don't know. I'm not on judgment.

I don't know who's doing it. I'm just saying, like, isn't that against the law? I think there's been times where Instagram would take down nips. A nipple. And then, but then there's other times, like I'll be watching a reality show and some girls boobs are out and they just barely fuzz it out.

And then you're like, what if men can have their nipples out? So I don't really, I just think it's like, who knows? Yeah. I guess the police aren't like busting into the, you know, to the Met Gala. And then this was Pamela Anderson. And this was, I was like, what the, so I saw this thing around her hair. She looks beautiful.

And she has this, but she has this feather thing around her. It kinda looks like her hair. Right. Yeah. And I go, is this supposed to be like Sleeping Beauty woke up from her nap or whatever? But then I saw another one and I go, oh, it's just a feather. Oh, it's just the angle.

But whoever thought of that feather should have thought about that. Yeah. They should have said, we's just a feather. Oh, it's just the angle. But whoever thought of that feather should have thought about that. Yeah. They should have said, we should choose a feather that doesn't match the color of your hair. Yeah. And I feel like it seems a little bit like an afterthought. You know, like maybe you don't need it.

She didn't need the feather. Because then look, from the front, it's really good. And now she's been doing the no makeup thing. But she did put a little makeup on this day. I doing the no makeup thing, but she did put a little makeup on this day. I love the no makeup thing. I thought that was so great that she started doing that. I like her because, you know, Nick, Nick, my husband was in this, um,

the Tom and Tommy. And I thought that was so good because it really showed like how, you know, she was the loser in that whole thing. It was really interesting. I thought it was good. Yeah, I thought it was really well done. We really liked it, but what I found interesting in watching it with my sons is that they were like,

oh my God, she just needs to get over it. Like, who cares? Like, this is not a big deal. Because to them, that isn't a big deal that someone is out there having sex with their husband. But I'm like, yeah, but do you see this was like 25 years ago and why that was like she was trying to take seriously and it was stolen and it was this and it was put out and it really was so crazy that they really didn't get any money for it. It was crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy. And then everybody just thought, well, I found it, so too bad. That was really, that was like very well done. And then, and then she, that did her own thing. And so her own like documentary kind of about her life and yeah, she's still so stunning. I'd love to see her like do something more. Me too. Act or something.

But also when you have a perfect face like that. It's nice that she was at this and that but look at her waist. You know what I mean? Like that's small but it's not it but it's not insane. No it's small and it's she's got nice big you know boobies. But like also she's the thing that made her so famous that I think is so interesting today is like and she was discovered You know out of base Some sporting game someone saw her face and then they're like, oh would you like to be a model for this beer or whatever? and

it's because she had such a perfect nose and such a perfect smile and she had like naturally full lips and You just couldn't buy that back then like naturally full lips. And you just couldn't buy that back then. Mm-hmm, right. And now anyone can have good teeth, anyone can have a perky nose, anyone can have lips. And everybody looks the same. And everybody looks the same.

Like I thought when I saw this Emily, I thought that was Kendall Jenner. Uh-huh, yeah, totally. Yeah, they all, yeah. And I was like, and not saying that neither of them have stuff done, but they, people do, they do a little tweak and they really start to look alike.

Queen Latifah and her partner Ebony made their rare red carpet appearance. Now I think this is really great because she was one of those people that I was like, I feel like she didn't come out for a long time, but everybody knew she was a lesbian. Yeah, yeah. And then she had a talk show,

and I was on that for two years. And it was like, I'm gonna be real. But then she wasn't honest about her relationship, which I can see why she didn't wanna be. But especially on daytime. Yeah, but also at that time, how real can you really be if you unfortunately feel that you have to keep the most important

relationship in your life a secret? I mean, I can't imagine if all, like I talk about my husband all the time and if all of a sudden, you know, I had to be like, well, you know, like if the flip was the norm and all of a sudden I always had to be like, well, my wife, Patty, and you know, and I have this, you know, like if you think about it that way, it just is like so weird and strange. So it's nice to see that they got to go and like have fun. I think that's great. Yeah.

And like, you know, look great. And then this was weird. This was Doja Cat. I saw that. And then she went in just a towel and a towel on her head and did this weird makeup. But so did you, so do you have a picture of her dress? No, it was just a towel.

It really was just a towel. Oh, cause I saw a dress that was all wet, like her tears had soaked the dress. Oh wait, maybe I have a different one then. I think I have it. So many people change so many times, I'm like maybe I don't have the right one then. Yeah, I think I have it. But many people change so many times. I'm like, maybe I don't have the right one then. Yeah, I think I have it.

But I get, like, you're with a team, and they're like, let's do something different and creative to match this theme. So I just feel like it's not really, it's not so different than like going to the Oscars and wearing something weird. Like, you're supposed to be wearing something kind of weird. Well, the thing I liked about,

so I don't remember the towel on her head in the photo I saw. I remember the tears, and then she's wearing this white, very plain dress that looks like a long t-shirt, and she's kind of holding it up, like crotch level. She's kind of holding it, and then it's all soaking wet,

like her tears soaked her, and it's kind of sheer, but it was, I thought it was kind of sheer, but it was, I thought it was a good idea actually. Yeah, it was cool then, all right. So this, I wanna get your opinion on this, this is about The Roast. Nikki Glaser did really well, I think she was the only female comedian

that did The Roast of Tom Brady. It was at the forum, it was for Netflix as a joke. I've watched most of it. But now of course there's some controversial stuff because the whole point of a roast is really going there and being cruel and we haven't seen them in a while since Comedy Central ended them.

I personally as a standup have always been like very uncomfortable. I've never wanted to do it. I don't like watching them. I don't like them. I just feel like first of all to be to be good at it. You have to go there and you cannot care about anything. You have to be John Rickles.

You have to be so and she was great at it. It's her thing. She's good at it. You have to be Ricky at your vase, you know? Like, where you really, well, do anything and you don't care. Yeah, well, a lot of them didn't care. And they went for some things that now they're getting some shit for.

So with Tom Brady, a lot of the jokes were easy jokes. You're good looking, you look gay, whatever. Then Kevin Hart is there, he's the host. You're short, you're short, you're short. And what I remember from the past is there would always be, and Pamela Anderson, I remember, this was the one that turned me off to the roast. They did a Pamela Anderson roast years ago

on Comedy Central, and it was all about, or maybe she was sitting there, maybe it wasn't her roast, maybe she was one of the people, and then they get to roast her too. And it was so many things about her vagina and her vagina size and all this other stuff. And I just remember watching it and I'm like, she has two boys, like why is she doing this?

And I think at the time they would get people to do the Comedy Central roast because quite frankly, it was a big paycheck. And then I think sometimes people were like, well, it'll make me relevant again, or I can laugh at the joke, or I'll at least be part of the joke, or whatever. But then, so with this one, it was, you know,

there were some good, you know, fun moments, but these are the things they're getting criticized for. So she said on Howard Stern, she did cut a joke about Tom Brady kissing his son. So there was this video that went viral that he was on a table, Tom Brady, this was years ago, like probably eight years ago, maybe it was a long ago,

whatever, he was laying on a table getting some physical therapy done or whatever. And they were filming it and his son walks in, and I think it was his older son, and he's like, hey, what are you doing? And he's like, well, come here and give me a kiss. So the kid leaves already, just kisses him, like on the lips, whatever.

And it went out and 20% of the people thought it was sweet and normal and 80% was like, that kid's too old to be kissed on the lips. And it became a big thing. And so she's like, I had a joke about it, but then I decided to take it out. She goes, because we decided the kids shouldn't be part of the thing. And but she's like, I had a dad that kissed me on the lips, you know, whatever, I'm fine. And but I get why it's like awkward and why some people think

it's weird or whatever. So I kind of thought, okay, so she decided to drop the joke. Then she said the joke on Howard, which was funny. So, but in the special, they do talk about him. He was with Bridget Moynihan and she was pregnant when they broke up, or they broke up and then she found out she was pregnant. And she's gone on to have a good life. I don't think she wanted him. I don't think she felt like she was being stood up.

And then he went to get with Giselle, who's now he's divorced from. So there were jokes about leaving your pregnant wife and all of that. I don't really think. Then there was also jokes about Giselle and how much money she would get. So she's not happy today.

She's pissed over the divorce jokes, according to people. None of these people seem like they have wild senses of humor, though. You know what I'm saying? These are not the people who seem like they have rollicking senses of humor. Well, I think Tom Brady was OK with everything. It was more of a couple other things.

And then this one, there were Aaron Hernandez's jokes. And to remind people, he was a professional football player. He was, I guess, on the Patriots, same team. And then he was the one, do you remember the story? He was the one that then he killed somebody, like in a shooting situation. And then when he was in prison, he ended his life and he hung himself. And he did it in a way so people thought so that his fiance or mother of his child and that child would get his money.

And I don't know, it was a big thing. So now she's coming forward. Wait, they made some jokes about him? They did. Oh my gosh. Something about a ring around the neck, meaning because he hung himself. God. And so it was just like that was just not...

That's not... And making like oh you know because they because they were teammates and making some throwaway jokes about, I don't know, some reference to him. And yeah, I mean, it's hard. There were a few people that I was like, OK, that's one joke. Like, I was watching it, and I love Tom Segura and Burt Kreischer and their whole thing, they had a screen and they were going through all these jokes and they were laughing and they were doing well. But then there was like

a Hitler thing. And I was like, I just don't, listen, people have made jokes about Hitler for a long time. But at this particular time, I'm like, I just think that would be the one that I'd be like, like we have 12, we don't need 13 jokes. Like if we're gonna like, but then it was like, hey, you know, I get that comedian way of like, we're not gonna, you know, whatever. And it's out there and it's like, you don't like it,

but it's live, so it was a live thing. And I think it was like, we're gonna be edgy, we're gonna bring back comedy and you can't be sensitive. And that's the thing. But it- Well, I agree with that, that you can't worry about being, you know, it's gotten to the point where you can't say anything.

But so I agree that that does, that is the enemy of comedy because comedy has to keep pushing the envelope. But no, I think there's a time and a place also for certain things. But the whole thing is like, yeah, at a certain point, you do have to just be like, and I used to be like, oh my God, no, that's not what I meant.

And people would write, I don't like that you said that on the show. And then I finally like basically blocked all those people, and now I don't really see it anymore, and I don't go to the places where I could see it. Yeah, because at a certain point, you're like, I just, I'm not going to be able to be creative. And like, I'm going to say things. And I'm not even controversial. It's just, it's just having a different opinion than somebody and then be like, I can't believe that you, you know, think this or said that. I was like, Oh God, there's a 10 billion other ones to listen

to. But I, for the most part, like people really liked it. I was like, oh god, there's a 10 billion other ones to listen to. But for the most part, people really liked it and people did well in their delivery. But I thought those were interesting things that are not, that some people are like, did they go too far or not? And then you read the comments and a lot of people are like, no, we have to bring back comedy and just deal with it. Yeah, that's good. I barely go on social media anymore. I just, I don't know, something just happened. I just didn't want to do it anymore. But I mean, I totally get it.

And I was only on it for maybe three or four years. I was really into it. I thought it was fun. Yeah, you have so many followers. I know, and I hardly ever do it anymore. You're like a million seven or something. Yeah, you have so many followers. I know, and I hardly do it anymore. You're like a million seven or something. Yeah, not that many, but I... No, you do. I just was on it. You're over a million.

Do you know that you're over a million? Yeah, I do know that, but I guess I liked Instagram, but then I just started feeling like, ugh, it's... I don't know. It's just tough. Now, I think here's a fun kind of juicy story. Do you remember 16 Candles? Of course you do, right?

Yeah. So Jake Ryan, he was so gorgeous. He's the one at the end of the one that she likes. He starred in the movie. He was just a model. He was handpicked by John Hughes. He really hadn't acted much. He was 23 at the time.

And anyway, then he was such a babe. It was such a classic movie, but then he dropped out of acting completely. He's been with his wife forever and dropped out of acting completely. I don't know what he does, he's 63, but now his daughter is like a famous model. She's gorgeous.

Wait, is 16 Candles the one where Molly Ringwald puts lipstick on with her boobs, between her boobs? It's one of the- No, that's the one where they're in detention the whole day, I think. No, 16 Cancels is so funny. I auditioned for the lipstick boobs one. Oh, wait. So wait. Oh, wait. Breakfast Club.

Oh, wait. To be which part? I guess Molly Ringwald. I don't know. Or it was kind of mix and match. Wait, but were you... Okay, there were two girls in it. But I did the, I did the boobs lipstick thing. Oh, well then that was the part, that you were gonna be the pre-Madonna person. But I think they would be dressed for different parts, yeah. And then, yeah, and it was Ali.

Ali Shidi. Ali Shidi was the one that was like the kind of emo one. Yeah. And then she was, yeah, this one was so funny. It was like my favorite movie. But it was one of those movies that then I was like, so excited, you guys, you're gonna die. This is the funniest movie ever.

And then my kids are kind of like, and then you like watch it and there's like sexual assault in it. Oh wow. Like this girl gets, his girlfriend gets really drunk. His character's girlfriend. He doesn't care about his girlfriend anymore because he's in love with Molly Ringwald

because she looked at him and he was like, that's who I want to be with. Like it was just like never would happen, but anyway. And so then he tells Anthony Michael Hall, take my drunk girlfriend home. And she passes out. And then he looks right to the camera and he's like, oh.

And then at the end, she realizes, because she thinks Anthony Michael Hall is Jake Ryan. So she has sex with him. But they don't show them having sex, but they just show her after going, um, did we have tabs? And he's like, yeah. And she's like, okay, you know, whatever.

And it was like, wait, what? Like she was completely passed out. He basically said, have your way with this drunk girl. I don't care about her anymore because she's drunk and she had a party at my house and I'm going for this classier redhead girl. And so then he goes to the wedding and she's like, and then they have that scene where they're like sitting on the table having the cake.

Isn't it so crazy how things have changed? Yeah. Things have really changed. I know and then that's the funniest thing because that's what a lot of my friends have said. Like, you know, we're all like Gen X and we're all, you know, raising Gen Z kids. And they'll be like, Mom, like, this is so problematic. What is this thing? And I'm like, oh my God, these kids are like so much nicer and better than we are.

Like, it's just like, I won't remember. I just feel like, oh, this was such a funny movie. And it's like, it's like racist. And like, they're like, why is everybody white? And then my one said- Kids now are so colorblind. I mean, it's so, so different. And then they're like, one thing I said is like,

oh, people all, all these people actually all wore jeans like at the same time. Like you're watching like, Fast Outta Ridge behind me. He's like, oh, everybody wore jeans like this, you know, and there was so, and they're like, there's like so much sex in those movies and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. These kids are like 14 and having sex. Yeah.

Yeah. I know that's nuts. Yeah. You don't see it as much. So tell me, is there any, what else is going on? Anything that we should watch out for that you're in or doing or working on? Oh, not really. A couple things in the works, but nothing. Just enjoying your life. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I'm so glad you came. This was so juicy. Oh, it was so fun. And you answered so many questions and everything. Yeah, I'm such a fan of yours. Thanks for having me on. Oh, thank