Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - I Stole Millions From My Celebrity Clients with Jonathan Todd Schwartz

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

This is a story of one man who lived a pristine lifestyle as a married father of three children in the suburbs, while managing the finances of huge celebrity musicians on their tours and their personal lives. When he got caught up in gambling, he decided to steal from the celebrity clients. After getting caught and doing prison time he has entered his redemption. The story is so juicy and interesting and I’m really grateful for how vulnerable he was in answering every question I asked about what makes a married, father and respected businessman go down a road of deception and addiction so quickly. Go to ⁠https://MeUndies.com/juicyscoop⁠ and use promo code juicyscoop for up to 50% off. Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to ⁠https://www.honeylove.com/JUICY⁠ #honeylovepod Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and unlock HUGE savings on the iRestore Elite with the code JUICYSCOOP at ⁠https://www.irestore.com/JUICYSCOOP⁠ !  #ad Click this link⁠ ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3HDwJKc⁠ to start your free trial with Wix Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Safe and Serial Data, and Serial Sister. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Heather McDonald, Juicy Scoop.

Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Okay, I am very excited to talk to my guest. He has a very juicy life story. Welcome Jonathan Todd Schwartz. We're gonna get all into it, but you were a financial manager for huge celebrities in LA in which you went to prison for stealing from them and to support a drug habit.

And really your redemption story today, part of it being on Juicy Scoop. But yeah, like just tell me a little bit, because I'm so intrigued when I was pitched your story, I was like, yeah, I wanna know about this. So you're a good looking guy, what was your background in college? How did you get into financial management of celebrities?

Yeah, great question. So going to college, I knew I always wanted to be an accountant, a CPA, because I had seven cousins in my family that were CPAs. And frankly that was probably the only subject that I was good at in school, both in high school and college. But I really like loved numbers because... Where did you grow up? I grew up in upstate New York, the Catskill Mountains, where there are a lot of comedians,

at least when I was growing up. So when I graduated college, one of my cousins at the time was a preeminent music entertainment business manager, his specialization was touring and royalties and whatnot. And so I called him when I graduated college and I said, cuz, I'm ready to come work for you. He said, no you're not, you're immaturity irresponsible. What do you know about business management?

I want you to work for an accounting firm so that you can hone your analytical skills, and when I think you're ready, I'll give you a call. So fast forward three and a half years, I got a job working in the financial district of San Francisco for a sole practitioner CPA. I did learn a lot. In hindsight, his suggestion, his advice was well worth it.

In 1995, he called me and he said, you're ready to come work for me. At this time, I married to my high school sweetheart. I had the first of my three beautiful sons. And we were living in San Francisco, so we just got in our little Honda Accord. And we drove down south and this was my entree into the entertainment world. I was the first one in the office, the last one to leave because I didn't want nepotism associated with me. I worked really hard.

I didn't get paid very well, but for me I viewed it as an opportunity to learn from my cousin who I really respected at that time. I was like a pseudo mentor. And it's like instead of absent learning from him, I'd have to go to grad school and take out a FAFSA loan. So getting paid something was nice. And that's how I got started in the business.

And so when you were there with your young family in the late 90s and you're living in LA. So were you at all fascinated by the entertainment industry because you're on this kind of like drier side of it working in business? Like were you getting to going to parties? Were you getting what was that that culture shock like? So I wasn't enamored by it at all even initially. In 1999 my cousin's firm was acquired by Chase Manhattan Bank now known as JP Morgan and he asked me if I wanted to get into family wealth management investment banking I said cuz I love you thank you for the opportunity you afforded me in the

family but I want to if I can may I have your blessing to take a small book of business and join another firm. So in February of 2000, he had previously given me his blessing, I joined GSO Business Management, not as a business management partner, but just as a business manager, still young, and there became a time in 2000, sometime toward the middle of 2000 where a band called Lincoln Park

was looking for business managers and So my former partner Michael Oppenheim may rest in peace. He passed away a couple years ago and he was my favorite partner and someone whom I absolutely adored and looked up to and and hurt very much by my later poor choices will learn about but They did they signed with us and that was like my crossroad into like A-level clients. Prior to that I had I would say like B-level because I was still young in the business and you have to earn that within the industry. Now I have never had a business manager, you know, my husband and I, we handle our own things.

But if I didn't have my husband, I probably would have wanted one, to have one, because there's just so much that goes into making sure that you set up things right and you know, pay the taxes right and everything. But hearing that people give this power to people and then they take advantage of them or they find out they never filed taxes for them or whatever the case might be, it happens a lot. So like, how does it really work if back in the day you were going to work for me? Is it like you pay

my mortgage, you pay everything, every check goes to you and I just I either can check it or I can just trust that hey can I afford this portion then you say yes or no or like how does it work? It works just like that frankly. At least it did when I was in the business. I'm hoping there are stronger internal controls today in the industry. I'm not connected to the industry anymore so but what I would recommend to your listeners is there should be dual signatures on checks. Your business manager has power of attorney or has power of attorney. That's how I eventually started making those poor choices

because I had power of attorney. But had there been stronger internal controls, such as like a second signatory over a certain threshold. Like over like $10,000. $10,000, you know, the client signs it along with the partner and now you have safeguards in place. There were no safeguards in place, unfortunately. There were no safeguards in place. And I mean, you're working with traveling musicians

that are artists. So, I mean, I'm guessing this is kind of an easy way to start to swipe. So where do you go from being legit and doing everything right to just like when was the first time you were you just were like well they're not going to miss this. Like what was the first indiscretion that you made as their manager. Yeah I would say so in 2000 like I said earlier when I joined this firm shortly after a few years go by three four years I become a partner so now I'm building a really solid book of business and frankly I owe it to Lincoln Park because that was that client where everyone kept saying how these guys are

amazing. I had a big ego back then yes and the same time I was humble to not take credit for an artist's success the same time, I was humble to not take credit for an artist's success or even think that I was in the entertainment space because I wasn't. Right, you're not booking them at the form, you're just collecting the checks and making sure they get paid on time. Yeah, we're doing the risk management with insurance,

we're doing their tour accounting, their royalty accounting, the bookkeepers are paying their bills and getting collecting income and ultimately I'm responsible when they go on tour for presenting them with the tour budget and does that meet their expectation with respect to the profit margin. And if it does, great, if it doesn't, then I need to modify it for them.

But I never got enamored to your original question you asked in the beginning by celebrities. So we represented music clients, film, TV, and professional athletes. And to be honest, I viewed it like they put socks and shoes on the same way you and I do. And that's what I think did help me get a lot of the clients because they knew I was not enamored by them.

I treated them like I would treat anybody else. I also shared with them, you know, I'm not a yes business manager. So if you're gonna ask me in your example earlier, if you can afford a Porsche, I'm gonna say no if you can't. And I'm also gonna back it up with evidence to support that. So I was never enamored by it.

The crossroad came in my career probably about 10 years into my 20 plus year career around 2009, 2010. I was coaching my kids youth sports teams in Agoura Hills and I met this assistant coach and he said, do you want to place a bet? And I said, sure, I'll place a bet. I love sports. So I placed a small bet and that bet... Like on like a NFL game or something? Yeah, I was a sports bettor. So I bet on... I mean I was a degenerate gambler. And did really... prior to that you weren't into gambling? I gambled twice prior to that in like sort of like a binge but not in moderation. I was not considered a composer.

So how much were you betting? At this point in time when the gentleman assistant coach asked me, that's actually too nice of a comment to call him a gentleman. When this, you know what I would like to say, asked me to place that first bet, it was small bets. It was like $50 to $100. Call it on day one

of a seven day week. But by the end of the week it became $50,000 bets or this type of bet. And now I had to make a decision. Because so with a gambling addiction, it's the high of because at one time you did get $50,000. Rarely. So you couldn't limit yourself like when we go gamble at a casino or whatever, it's always like, okay, we took out three to $500. When we're done with that, we're done.

But obviously with an addiction, you can't set the limits, just like an alcohol addiction where you're like, yeah, I'm not gonna have more than three drinks, you know? So. Yeah, so my father left me when I was four and he was a gambling addict, a cocaine addict, and made some poor choices and I never really wanted to be like him.

But now as a therapist I understand and I don't use this as an excuse at all. In fact I own all the mistakes that I make and I really believe in taking personal accountability. But there's evidence-based literature that supports that someone who's experienced childhood type trauma can carry that into adolescence and adulthood and there's that disease component of addiction. So I believe addiction is both

a disease and a choice. So the disease is that it was transmitted let's say likely from my father to me. The choice became my choice, right? So I don't blame it on the disease, I blame it on my poor choices when I became addicted to gambling. And so that was the choices when I became addicted to gambling. And so I- So that was the first thing you became addicted. Now did your wife know? So for six years of my gambling run,

I gambled literally every day on sports. And at that time, is it your own money or are you starting to dip into the business money, the account, the, you know, your clients? So the first time I took money from Alanis was the first time, was that moment where I decided I can take the money from myself because now I'm making seven figures a year. We're doing really well.

We have this, you know, the American dream of a beautiful home in Agoura Hills. The kids are, you know, going on vacations. But money never brought me happiness because now I'm starting to gamble. And now I'm violating my clients' fiduciary responsibilities. So I should have taken it from my own bank account rather than quote unquote borrow it or otherwise the truth stealing it with the intent to pay it back.

What was like the first time and what did you tell yourself the first time you did this, what you knew was wrong? What was the conversation that made you convince yourself to do this? The conversation in my head using self-talk was, I'm just gonna borrow this from Alanis for this week. And how much was it?

It was like 25,000, week one losses. And then I'll pay her back next week. But pay her back next week meant I'm gonna gamble more next week. And was it always sports games through a private bookie or what? Yes, through a bookie who was that coach that I mentioned earlier that for until about after four years I realized he was taking advantage of me because a bookie

generally collects 10% of your losses plus your loss principle. He was collecting not only that from me but if I ever won which was rare he would take 10% of my winnings but because the amount of money that I was betting hundreds of thousands of dollars now a day no one else would take my bets so I kind of had the confidence. And how do you even do it? You call up the person like how do you send the money to the I don't even know how this works so like. So what happened was now I have power of attorney, right? Yeah. So I would, the sports world is Monday through Sunday.

Okay. On Sunday night and every night for six years, I can't sleep because I know what I'm doing is outside. And your wife has no clue. Not only does my wife have no clue, I've shared this with nobody. And how were you sleeping at night? I wasn't.

So for six years, I struggled to sleep. I And how were you sleeping at night? I wasn't. So for six years I struggled to sleep. I had to sometimes take sleeping aids nobody knew. I hid this dark secret from everyone. I still hadn't dealt with my childhood trauma that was suppressed inside. I was living in fear every day and I was living a double life. So to the outer world I presented myself as Superman,

you know, this conservative business manager wearing a suit every day. And the moment I would get home, I now wanna go and just cry. You know, like how could I do this? Like I thought I had a moral compass. How could I, yeah, I have such a great opportunity to provide for my family,

yet here I am as degenerate gambler. And I hated gambling, but I'm chasing it. Because the mindset of a gambler is one of grandiosity. It's summer but let's talk about sweat and if you're not wearing the right underwear it gets real uncomfortable real fast. That's why I swear by me undies their micro modal fabric is legit magic super soft breathable and somehow just stays cool even when it's 90 degrees and your AC is losing the battle. And they've got everything from briefs, boxers,

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been some stories in in my years of just being like a mom in the neighborhood where there'd be like some juicy gossip of, oh my God, now this woman hates this woman because her husband's a secret bookie, and she found out that he's betting through, like did any of that happen, where there were other guys in your circle that were businessmen that were using these

and getting into a bad spot? There were, and probably still are, people in the entertainment community who are embezzling money from clients. Not just embezzling, I mean the betting part. Oh yeah, there's always gamblers, yeah. There's many gamblers, but I never associated with them because I isolated so that I can keep this secret

from everyone, like literally nobody knew. So you just call the bookie guy, and're like I'm wiring you 50 grand to bet on this NFL game No, it's worse than that. So Sunday night now I know how much I owe the bookie, okay, cuz I lost for all the loss from the previous week Monday through Sunday So now I really can't sleep. So you think maybe you weren't making good bets there. So no, there's just way. It's obvious it's gambling. There's no way to know what the team... but I mean aren't you kind of betting on like the team because the players this person or the odds or all that stuff? So it's a good question. So I was... there's no good gambler for starters, right? Inevitably if you continue to gamble even if it's on

one game a day you're likely going to lose. So let's just take the NFL Sunday, for example. Even though I bet on the NFL, college football, NBA, basketball, college, baseball, I didn't just bet on one game, let's say the Rams against the Niners and pick the Rams and making this up. I picked not only who I thought was gonna cover the spread,

I bet the over-under, which is the total scores. I bet teasers parlay. So I had six, seven bets per game and every game on the board. So there's no way to win. You can't win that way. And clearly I did not win. And so in doing all this, which I'm assuming is also time consuming. You're still paying people's mortgages and stuff for them at the business, but you've taken from Atlantis. Are you taking from other people now too? But she doesn't know because she's trusted you or how does that work?

So the irony, and I know her song is ironic, with Atlantis was when she was looking for business managers, she interviewed, let's say half a dozen, including me. The reason she hired me is because I brought visual aids to the meeting to present to her what I will do for her. Here's what a tour budget looks like, here's what the personal budget looks like,

here's what your portfolio looks like, even though we're not asset managers managing your portfolio, we're the quarterback that sits with you and directs the asset manager based on your wishes, how to meet your expectations, so're the quarterback that sits with you and directs the asset manager based on your wishes, how to meet your expectations, so on and so forth. So she hired me for that transparency. So now I'm taking from her. Now every month I'm going to her house and I'm showing her those same spreadsheets, except this time those spreadsheets are not authentic, right? They're me are not authentic, right? They're me, not kind of me,

kind of altering the Excel spreadsheets and making a PDF out of it for her. And then afraid every time I walk in there that she's gonna ask me for a source document, i.e. a bank statement, so that she could reconcile on the statement to what I'm presenting to her, and she didn't. And unfortunately, because I wish she did,

I would have been caught a lot sooner. I wished I had asked for help but I never had the courage to ask for help. So none of the other people working with you knew? Nobody, not my former partners, not my employees, literally nobody because I didn't want anybody to know. And then besides her how many other clients were you also dipping into? About four or five more, total five, some say six, I would say five. And when does it all come crashing down? So in 2015,

2000, yeah, 2015, early 16, I'm in Tampa Bay, Beyonce is doing her rehearsals at the Raymond James Stadium in Tampa Bay. And she's your client. She's my client for the Lemonade Tour. And I'm responsible for her, you know, meeting those profit margins that we talked about earlier. And I get a call from my former partners.

At this point in the fourth quarter of 2015, Alanis fired me. And I became really careless. I just told the bookkeeper, give her anything she wants. I'm not even gonna fix anything. I want to get caught at this point. And she fired you because she did realize there was something funny going on or what did she realize to fire you? What I've been told is when she originally fired me she fired me because I wasn't giving her the attention I once did. Oh and that's... So she didn't even know that... Not yet. Okay. Not yet but and she's not wrong. I didn't give know that not yet. Okay, not yet, but um, and she's not wrong

I didn't give her that attention because to be honest there were clients that Were more relevant at that time that needed more of my time then let's say she did and no disrespect to her I think incredible, but that's just the truth So that's the way I always say that's the way it is with agents and managers Even if they're just on the creative side not a financial side You know, it's like anything else. It's kind of like a boyfriend in the beginning They're like trying to woo you and they're really into you and sometimes it is a marriage and you're with them for 30 years and sometimes After three years, you're like I need to get a new boyfriend. That's gonna be excited about me again. So yeah, right and yeah, so

Here I am in Tampa Bay and my partner say Alanis is asking by the way Alanis went and hired my cousin's firm. So he left Chase Manhattan Bank Here's another you know, you guys were cousins when she I was told she did. Uh-huh So she didn't use my cousin, but she used his partner Howard Okay, but I thought that was another ironic thing in this whole journey of mine. And they discovered that 4.6 million of the seven million I embezzled was from Alanis. 4.6 million had gotten that high?

It was crazy, and I never thought it got that high. That's how naive I was. You weren't even doing the accounting on yourself. No, I was afraid to look. I was just, I was afraid to look at, and then when I got the call and they said 4.6 in my mind I'm like 4.6 I'm thinking maybe a million and even though a million is ridiculous. Yeah. And so I of course still had an ego when I was so. But like why you're stealing from your clients you're

still managing to pay all your personal bills and your mortgage and your whatever activities. Right because I'm not using my own money. Right, okay. So we continue, the family continue to live that lifestyle. And how do you get paid from these clients? So a lot of clients in business management, they pay us a percentage, like 5% of gross. Okay. But if you're making, there are certain clients that were making just way too much money,

and I would approach them and say, instead of paying me 5% on gross dollars from all earnings, why don't we go to, let's say, the first $10 million will be at, you know, 5%, the next 10 million would be at 3.5%, and then thereafter 1% in the calendar year. So you're being great, you're cutting them a deal, but you're also stealing from them.

Not all of them, but yes. Some of them, okay. To be fair, no, but yes, a handful of them I was, yes. And I was obviously completely wrong. So they call you while you're at the Beyonce thing and they're like, what the fuck, or what do they say? How do they say it? Probably worse than what the fuck,

but yeah, they said, Jonathan, Alanis is asking what this line item is of cash withdrawals for $4.6 million. So I immediately have to, I'm in denial still, right? Right. By this time, I'm really heavy into cocaine as well. Now how did that start? It started because I couldn't go live like this anymore.

I couldn't live in fear in year six. I literally can't, I'm having psychosis from sleep deprivation. I'm not being present for my kids. Like I can't do this. But when did you like Go from someone who did you ever were you a casual drinker? Like what was your experience with drug and drinking before you got into gambling? So I was in college We did I did cocaine maybe once a year when I'd go home to New York where I'm from, from LA on business trips, maybe I'd do it once a year. At that point I could do it in moderation.

But now I'm having suicidal ideation. I'm really starting to think about, how am I gonna get through this? I'm gonna inevitably hurt my lovely wife, my children, my mother who's battling stage four lung cancer at this time, my partners, the employees, the whole entertainment community, the employees, the whole entertainment community, the community of Agorios. I'm hurting countless people.

I don't want to live anymore. And then I was just able to identify reasons to live, but I was started, and I have heart disease, so I would now, how I got started on cocaine is that my assistant, I asked her what she did one night and she said I was out with a girlfriend at a restaurant and this waitress asked her and I if I'm gonna if I want to do they if they do cocaine and she said we don't but ultimately they went to the bathroom with this waitress and they did cocaine I said this is great can you please give me her number I'd like to start doing cocaine is that what you say to your assistant? Or did you just?

Absolutely. No, I surely did. You didn't even try to go around it. You're just like, oh, I'd like to get some coke for myself. We were friends too. And she didn't think it was anything bad. She's like, oh, sure, yeah, if you want, I'll hook you up, like casual. Thinking that you wouldn't get addicted.

Thinking like you just wanna have like a fun Saturday night over the top, once in a blue moon. That's right, so now I'm doing it 24 seven. And you know. And getting it always from that waitress or other people. Yeah, and it was terrible cocaine. From what I didn't know good from bad, so it was terrible cocaine filled with chemicals,

but I needed that rush. Like I needed to like numb myself to get away from the horrific things that I was doing. And so with this heart disease, I would wake up with my sheets soaked at night in the morning. Sweat. Sweat, heart racing, and that's why the experts believe

I was trying to hurt myself. Yeah. And now in this time with your wife, are you, is there any infidelity? Are you also doing, okay, tell me about that. Yes, unfortunately, part of my many poor choices was because I was so insecure on the inside from my childhood trauma, but yet Presenting myself with high reasonable self-esteem Deep down the side. I didn't feel good about myself and that was even before the gambling just my entire life

So I'm 55 years old now at this point in time I was like 46 and it hadn't dealt with my trauma and so because of those insecurities and everything I sought out I didn't seek out but there were about three I had like two or three affairs. And who were and don't tell me they were their names but like are they other moms are they younger women like what kind of women would you and would they approach you or would you kind of like fish and see who's down to to cheat? No I didn't go searching for who was willing to cheat but when I would go to Vegas for example you know you had that big shot mentality you have to buy a table bottle of liquor you know you know you I'm thinking I'm a big shot and

this big shot mentality got me in a lot of trouble and so women would come over and then now I'm with that woman or... And were they like one night stands or were they like they would continue and did you ever catch feelings for some of these women? They lasted, one lasted almost like six months and we had feelings she wanted me to leave my wife. Did she live near you? She did. Was she within the community too? Like was she like a mom too? No, no, no, nobody was married. Actually, I'm sorry, this one was married. Okay. And she said that she, I thought she was in a great relationship, but she said she wouldn't.

And again, where's my integrity? Like, you know, like, why would I be with a woman who's married? And so those poor choices continue to mount. But like, where are you like sneaking, how are you sneaking around with these people? Like do you- Hotels. Like, so like you just go, you're at work,

your wife's at the Little League, whatever. And then you're like, oh, okay, well, Wednesday I have a thing with Beyonce's agent, so I'm going to whatever, not be home. And then you would get a hotel and meet the woman. You could take nice dinner first, but yes. And did anyone ever see you out to dinner with someone else? No, but the funny story is my ex.

Because she's your ex now, your wife. Right, well yeah, they're all I've done to her and to everybody else. We got divorced officially in 2017, but we had a rocky last several years before that. Yeah. But I was at this woman's house and my wife suspected

that I was cheating on her. And so she hired a private detective to follow me. And ultimately she was away on vacation and she called me, so hey, where were you last night? So I said I was at a client meeting, I'm lying. She says, well that's funny because I understand you were at XYZ place and so that was the moment that the infidelity was discovered.

And when she called you with that confrontation I'm just curious because if I was in that position was she cool as a cucumber or was she like heart-beating like I can't believe I actually have evidence and I'm going to confront my husband? The latter. Yeah she was really angry as she should have been. Right. And how old are the kids now at this point? This point so this is in two so right now the kids are 31, 29, and 22. Uh-huh. So now we're talking about 2000. Oh 10 years ago. Yeah 10 years ago. Yeah. So she at this point she knows you're cheating. Does she know you're doing coke? No, she knows nothing. She doesn't know about the gambling,

doesn't know what's dealing. So she just thinks that you guys are having marital issues and you stepped out on her. Yeah, and I left the house. So I left her in the house. Eventually we were separated because of all this. And I lived in Westlake Village and rented a house while she stayed in that house until the demise,

until 2015, 2016 happened. So you get the call. You get the call and at this point, you're separated or you're not separated? Separated. You're separated, you're still doing all the coke, but you're still managing to look like you're working for other people.

Yes. And so what do you say when they say, where is the 4.7 of Atlantis' money? What do you say? My immediate reaction was, I was lying. I said, she invested in the cannabis business. I don't know where I got this, but it just came out of my head. And so they're like, okay, well, she doesn't, she doesn't, she claims you never told her that.

I said, well, I'll get her to sign something. I'll fly back tonight So now I leave Tampa Bay and I fly to LA and I'm greeted back at my firm By my partners and now a legal team that they retained and so I had this genius idea to play poker with my partners And I said well if you guys don't believe me, you know, just give me a lie detector test. And so they said, okay Thank you. We'll consider it. And so. Because you're still saying she wanted to invest

in this cannabis company. You're just like, what did you call it? Green clover fun? Like what did you come up with the name to? I wasn't that creative. Okay. And that's sort of like the whole way through this journey of almost six years gambling every day.

I have to come up with lies every Sunday night of what I'm going to tell the bank, like to your question you asked earlier. It wasn't that I said wire the money. It was, I'm going to use Alanis as an example, hey private banker for Alanis, I need you to deliver $40,000 of cash to me by two o'clock tomorrow, and they would ask why, and I'd come up with a story, because Alanis is working with a producer in the studio, and she wants a discount by paying cash. Like the countless lies that I had to say to the bank,

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Do they keep coming around? Or does it ever turn sour? And they, like, do you ever not pay them on time and they, like, threaten to come kill you? What is that relationship like? First of all, I believe most people in entertainment space are phony. Okay, and this, despite me being completely an awful human being for

call it six years, one of the things I was able to do and I still do is like when I got caught I was seeing an Eastern Western Medicine doctor and once it became public he called me and he said I want you to meet me at a house Jonathan tomorrow But I want you to wear a suit So I go to my doctor so I go to this house and I walk in I know nobody I don't even know where the doctor is and I look outside and there's a funeral going on in this homeowners backyard a Rabbi is giving a eulogy I'm like this must be the wrong dress, but I'll trust the doctor

I sit in the last row cuz I feel uncomfortable and the doctor walks in I said, Doc, what is this? He goes, Jonathan, this is a staged funeral. The person who owns his house is upstairs and he fears death and he's interested to know what his loved ones would say about him. They think he's dead. Isn't this weird? So, but to my point, now fast forward, we leave, and the doctor asked me, he said, Jonathan, what's your takeaway from this? I said, let me process this, Doc.

So, 30, 45 seconds into the processing, I say, here's my takeaway. I said, if I were to die today in the height of my career, or prior to getting caught in the height of my career, or prior to getting caught in the height of my career, I would probably have six, 700 people at my funeral. Of those six, 700 people at my funeral, 98% are there at a professional obligation. Today, if I pass away, I said to them,

maybe 50 people will come to my funeral. But those 50 people, about 100% of them care and love me. And why was that an important message for me? Is because today I don't believe in having a quantity circle of friends, but rather a quality circle of friends. And today I set boundaries with people that are healthy for not just my recovery, but for my well-being. And in the entertainment space, there's none of that.

It's completely phony. And I don't wanna generalize the entire entertainment space, there's none of that. It's completely phony. And I don't wanna generalize the entire entertainment space, but I would say the hardest part about being a professional in that space is sometimes you can get caught up with, like you said earlier, like the party scene. I really didn't get caught up in that. I mean, I did go out to places,

but it wasn't really to party. It was sort of to schmooze, and I really didn't like to schmooze either. But those are things about the entertainment space that I believe still go on today, but I don't know that factually. So, okay, let's grab a, so you're saying, give me lie detector test, I swear she wanted to invest

in cannabis, I've done nothing wrong, then what happens? So now we're kind of reconciling again. This is in like December of 2015. Who, your reconciled? My ex-wife and I. Okay. So we're starting to socialize again and sleep over at each other's place and it would have been our 23 year anniversary in May. So now it's like May 7th and I say why don't we go up to Santa Barbara and you know have a vacation,

celebrate what would be our 23rd year anniversary. She said, okay. So I get a call from one of my partners. This is like on a Saturday, I believe. Still gambling, still doing coke. The whole 24-7. And still cheating? Not cheating, no. Okay. So now I get a call from my partner.

He said, you know how you told us that you would take a lie detector test? We want you to come down to Beverly Hills tomorrow and meet a former retired FBI agent polygrapher. I'm like, by the way, when I received the call, I'm high on cocaine. And how long, how much time has passed before the first time that Alanis people are like, where's the 4.7 and let's do the lie detector test? Six months. Oh, okay. Five, six months.

And who are you stealing from now? No, so I'm still, I'm taking from other clients now. Now you're taking from other clients, okay. And the same type of thing, 20,000, 40,000, okay. Yes. And so I tell my, so now I have, now I'm really caught. Now I have to tell my wife the truth, right? Because they want me to go leave.

We were at a hotel, they want me to leave. And so I hang up the phone and I told her for the first time what I've been doing for almost six years. How did you tell her? In a nutshell? I said, babe, I have to go down to take a lie detector test tomorrow. I just want you to know that I've been gambling for almost six years, embezzling money from clients. And, you know, I'm sorry for all the pain.

This is probably causing you. And she was obviously in shock. Did you mention the coke then or no yes I was doing cocaine in the hotel room she saw me doing it and was she concerned or was she just like I thought we're gonna have a chill weekend why do you feel like you need coke or like were you drinking too and then you you didn't hide the lines and she was like how often are you doing that like what was her questioning on that really posed that question to me I mean I think it was just because I was mostly hiding in the bathroom or when she would go down to the pool Okay, but she saw that I had some with me. Yes. Okay, but she ever did she want any did she know she was she was

Pretty she was a really incredible woman. Yeah, I didn't realize that until now if you were So so she you tell her all that is she cry, she cry, scream? Is she, does she not think it's as serious as it is or what? So, I said to her, listen, it's gonna be okay. Go to the spa, lay out at the pool. Great relaxing massage you're gonna get. Right. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna leave in the morning and I'll be back. So now this is May 8th, 2016, because my sober date from all drugs and gambling is May 9th, 2016. So I'm driving an hour and a half from Santa Barbara

to Beverly Hills, I'm snorting lines of cocaine for the fly detector test, I'm placing my last bet. I walk into the polygrapher's office, I put my, with a big ego and shaking from the cocaine, I put my feet up on his desk, I lay back on his chair, and I Googled how to beat a lie detector test once I got off that call with my former partner. And what does it say?

Whatever it said, I certainly didn't follow the instructions because the one thing that I didn't pay attention to, I'm thinking this whole two hours of establishing some dialogue with the polygrapher and myself between us, that I'm the one establishing a rapport with him. But what I didn't realize, because I must not have paid too much attention to what I Googled, that it's his responsibility

to build a rapport with me. So I'm thinking I'm winning, because I'm like this guy likes me, we're having this conversation for almost two hours. Before he hooks you up? Before he hooks me up. Then he hooks me up. Okay. And I leave there thinking I beat this thing.

And the questions are like, what's your name? All that stuff. And then did you steal money and you say no. Right. And with cocaine, you can't beat a lie detector test. You're already shaking from a stimulus. Right. I would think that'd be the worst drug you could take ever before a lie detector test. You're already shaking from a stimulant. Right, I would think that'd be the worst drug you could take ever before a lie detector test. And these bad choices and bad decisions continued for me, right?

The saga continues. So now I leave the test and I call up my ex-wife or with the wife at this time, and I say I'm on my way back, let's have dinner tonight, blah, blah, blah. I get back to the hotel room, I load the computer, I try and get access to my firm, and I'm denied access. So I know that now this is that moment.

So I call my assistant, and she said she has access. So now I call my attorney, who's now the district attorney of LA, Nathan Hockman. I said, Nathan, how'd I do? He said, Jonathan, you failed that test worse than anybody in this polygrapher's career. So now is the first real time that I'm now recognizing that I'm facing 23 years in federal prison. And does Nathan, your attorney, say, they know you're lying, like, I'm gonna do what I can to help you.

Yes. Like, but then you come finally clean to him? Oh yeah, so he said, here's what you're gonna do, Jonathan. You're facing 23 years, you need to come to my office tomorrow with your wife, and we need to figure out a strategy. And thankfully, he was able to negotiate

a four to six year plea agreement on what could have been a 23 year sentence. And how much time between going to his office that next day after failing the FBI test of the polygraph test and you accepting that you're going to do four to six years, like how much time goes by? A year. So this was in May of 16, in May 3rd, 2017, I was sentenced to six years in federal prison. And leading up knowing that you're definitely

going to have to do some time, how do you, I mean, there's like a comedy about that, where like Will Ferrell talks to people because he has to go to like white collar crime. Did you talk to people of what prison you might go to, and like how you would get through those years and keep a relationship with your sons like what did you do leading up to that? I hired a prison consultant.

Oh so you did just like the movie. Yeah I hired a prison consultant because you know I didn't know anything about prison like am I gonna my first question was am I gonna get raped? Yeah. And also my younger son was really scared and he was concerned so I wanted him to to hear what this consultant was saying. And we basically chose that the facility that I should ask for at Sentencing is called Sheridan Federal Prison Camp in Sheridan, Oregon because it's the only west coast camp that has a residential

drug and alcohol program and I can get a year off my sentence if I complete the program. And so I did after two years up in Sheridan, Oregon, and then I transferred on Con Air, which was awful experience. Where you really have to be like in the shackles on a plane with only prisoners? Prisoners of all security levels. So now I had, it was really scary.

Yeah. And I'm vegan and they're offering bologna sandwiches and I would maintain my veganism in prison. So I ate a lot of rice and beans and that was pretty much it. And so now I transferred to Taft at this point which was a federal prison camp it was the only private federal prison camp in the country. Where is that located? It's near Bakersfield. Okay. And that's not governed by the Bureau of Prison so they have like their private COs and that was I was there for nine months because now COVID hit.

And was that significantly better? So much better. I mean, there's no such thing as better. Better than the Oregon one or the Oregon one was okay? Oregon one was awful, it was dirty. They don't, you know, yeah, it was just a bad experience. It was a bad experience. So you weren't with like white collar criminals in Oregon?

I was. Oh, you were? Yeah, I was with white collar criminals and I was with drug dealers, non-violence. And I got very close with the drug dealers. I got very close with all the inmates. There were about 450 plus inmates on the grounds. I led a victim impact program.

And at this point now I've accepted my crime. I'm in prison. And like how often would you talk to, and between the time of you failing the test and telling your wife and going to prison, did she file or were you together when you went to prison? So now I'm going to criminal court for my sentence and family court for my divorce.

So she did file shortly after. It was the worst year. Did you try to save it or were you like, no, you should just divorce me and be free? I was still being disrespectful to her. Uh-huh. Like it was just like, how could you like say these things in

court when you know I'm gonna be you know sentenced to prison and the truth is today as I reflect on all the things that I've done she deserved a lot better than me. Yeah I would think so. And she she's happy today I made amends when I came home to her. Now did you leave her in financial ruins? Like you didn't have any money. Like what is she gonna do? Did she have a career? So my brother helped her and my kids out financially. My mother and stepfather helped her out and the kids out financially. The government seized all the assets. There was no money.

Did they even take like her jewelry and purses and things? No, they were very kind to her. She worked with the government. Okay. She sat on the government side during my sentencing. And that was hard to see. But she had to give up the house? No, she let the house foreclose after about three years of my time being away, which I she survival mode, you know, she was was incredible she became a reiki instructor and and she she really stepped up to the plate to help the children as best she could and herself and what was it like in her in your social circles did she have friends that stuck by her or was

everyone just like no most people stuck by her it's not her fault she didn't know anything about it and that's why inevitably during this journey I I knew I was going to get caught. And that's one of the main reasons why I never told her or anybody. I didn't want her to be a conspirator. I didn't want her to know anything. And the truth is that most people stood by her. And did she ever fly up with the kids when you were in Oregon? No, we once said we still don't communicate to this day, other than when I came home making amends to her on the phone

That's the only conversation I ever had and then how did the kids communicate with you during this? So total how many years did you do between the two places? So I did 34 months incarcerated. Okay, and during those 34 months What was your communication with the three sons? So my Younger son and I spoke every week. You get 15 minutes on the phone. My middle son and I did not speak on the phone nor my older son and I but they came to visit me once or twice when I was in Taft. Still to this day, nine plus nine years and three months sober. My two older boys still don't talk to me. My older son sees

me maybe three or four times a year. He calls me Jonathan. I heard him. You know. Wait, you said that you don't, so wait, which sons are you talking to? So my oldest and my middle son I don't communicate with, but with the exception of my older one, Elisa Marina Del Rey, he calls me three or four times and we go and have lunch together. Oh, so then you do communicate. We do. I'm grateful that we speak three or four times a year. Middle one, nothing. Nothing.

And are the boys close with each other? Oh, they're best friends. Oh, that's good. I'm so blessed to have kids with them. And then the younger one you do talk to? Every day, four or five times a day. Yeah. I mean, the biggest, my biggest hope in life to this day is that my kids will come back in my life Because they were my best friends like they were literally my best friends and then I embarrassed them and what would be like

so when you're in that time in the prison and you're now, you know getting you're sober you're working on recovery and What what was the fallout maybe part of that? What with the other celebrities and people, like how much news media was about this, about like was your face on TMZ? Like what was happening with it? Yes, my face was on TMZ. I was in a lot of trade magazines,

the traditional ones, Variety, How They Would Report, or Billboard, some of the financial magazines, but I didn't pay attention to any of them. I had my best friend from Childhood Tracked, I had a Google alert, and he would call me, I said, Mark, I told you, I don't wanna know anything anymore.

Like, the last thing I wanna do is read all the hatred out there, and it's just gonna make me feel worse than I already do. And did it make, like, other people in your business pissed because then their clients were gonna be a little more on edge Believing that it could happen to them. Yes, so someone handed me about a few weeks to a month into my incarceration someone handed me I think it was a

variety or Hollywood Reporter and in that Magazine there was a story where at this point in time Johnny Depp was suing his business manager and there was a my face and Johnny Depp's face and it said it took a survey of the business managers and they asked the business managers who should get more time Johnny Depp's business manager or Jonathan Schwartz the manager. And if you think about who was taking it, the census, the sample size was all business managers. They're clearly gonna say Jonathan, and probably they should have said it regardless, Jonathan.

I deserved a lot more than Johnny Depp's business manager for whatever he did. And so that was like the first time I read something in prison where there was still people who really hold a lot of, like, hatred toward me. And they should. Again, I mean, I won't deny that I hurt a lot of people.

So then you get finally released. And do you go to like a halfway house, or where do you go right after? Because now you get released, and I mean, do you have any money to your name at this point? No. Zero. Okay.

So April 16, 2020 I'm released. I need to do 16 months of home confinement with an ankle monitor which is almost worse than prison because you're restricted. I couldn't leave this small little apartment that I had except for going grocery shopping with permission, going to doctors so I made sure I saw a lot of doctors so I could at least get out of the studio apartment I was in and I needed that time to get more humble. I came out with a little bit of... You still weren't humble after four years of prison? I came out of prison with ego that was dropped, but not completely dropped.

I needed to become more humble. I couldn't get a job. That was part of the process of getting more humility. Really working the steps again, the 12 steps, helped me also become humble more than I was when I left prison. And I got a job working at Dunkin' Donuts. And I was cleaning the countertops and mopping the floors. And I got fired after two months. I wasn't doing a good job doing that. And then I got a job working as an auto sales person for Lexus of Thousand Oaks.

And I didn't realize this, but in California, the Department of Motor Vehicles governs auto sales person for Lexus of Thousand Oaks. And I didn't realize this but in California the Department of Motor Vehicles governs auto salespeople. I know nothing about cars. So what I do know though is now immersed into the 12-step program and I'm practicing the principles of the program like rigorous honesty and not trying to manipulate people or be dishonest anymore. And when a customer would walk in I'd say have you heard of TrueCar? TrueCar is like strategic. No, I remember that was one of my first sponsors. Yeah, but TrueCar about how to find out what you could.

The best price for your lease if you want to lease or finance it. So if they said that they saw TrueCar or even if they didn't, I said, tell my manager you did because I want because I'm looking you in the eyes and I'm telling you I can get you the best price because I could with TrueCar. So now three months into this four month provisional license to be an auto salesperson I get a notice that my pending approval from the Department of Motor Vehicles has now been revoked and you're not allowed to work as an auto salesperson. So I decided I'm going to take this to an administrative hearing on Zoom. This was during COVID.

Yeah. And I'll represent myself. And so the judge can see all the rehabilitation I've done. I've never got a disciplinary action in prison. I led this victim impact program. I helped inmates. I taught accounting in prison. I'm doing everything I can to better myself

from the moment I walked into prison, and still to this day. And so I'll never forget, the judge said, Jonathan, while you've really rehabilitated yourself, I'd like to grant you the authority to go back and work as an auto salesperson. This lawyer from the Department of Motor Vehicles says, no, your honor, auto sales people are the number,

is the number one profession with workers with integrity. The old Jonathan, can I curse on you? The old Jonathan would say, are you effing kidding me? You're saying that, no disrespect to listeners who are auto sales people, but I can't put them in the bucket of the most integrity-filled profession. And so I was revoked that license, so for me, this is, I'm gonna give you a little 12-step talk.

Like my higher power wanted me to be denied from that, wanted me to get fired from Dunkin' Donuts because he was giving this message that, you know what, Schmuck, it's time for you to go to addiction study school, you become a certified addiction drug counselor, then I want you to go to grad school to become an LMFT with an emphasis in addiction and trauma, and I want you to pay forward what was once given to you

to your brothers and sisters in the program. And to me, I mean, that's what I am today, and that's what I'm most proud of, is that today I can speak with a level of humility. Today I can be vulnerable. Today I can ask for help. Today I can be emotionally present. I don't live in my past, but I don't forget my past.

Are there any people from your past, clients, Atlantis, whatever, that you have ever had contact with, or you've written a letter to, and they've responded in a negative or positive way? So during probation I wasn't allowed to communicate with or incarceration slash home confinement slash probation when I was prohibited from speaking to any victims, direct or indirect or any of my firm partners. And I did communicate with one of the asset managers who worked with a

few of the clients I embezzled because I put him in a really bad spot because he trusted me when I would call him and say client A needs $25,000 sent to me and I can't only imagine how much he had to deal with as a result of how much I lied to him and so I reached out to him, this was probably about six months ago, and I made amends to him, and he, to my pleasant surprise, really appreciated that phone call.

Probably the best asset manager in the entire entertainment space, bar none. A good, humble man who didn't deserve that. And so I'm blessed that he accepted my amends. To my former partners, I would have started to make amends to them but recently they handed me a civil judgment that I don't want to get into now but it's likely because they think that I'm making money from a book and movie which I don't have out yet

the good news is I've retained an attorney and we're gonna beat them at their own game and So today I just I haven't made amends to him I wanted to make amends to him, but now that they're playing games with me. I'm not gonna make amends to them and But none of the celebrity clients, like none of the singers and people that you represented, that there's been that distance, obviously. When you make amends, your sponsor will tell you that you only make amends to people that may not be harmed by you making amends.

And my sponsor and I decided that if I were to make amends with Alanis it would probably cause her more harm than anything and to bring that up to her again wasn't isn't the right suggestion from my sponsor and I happen to agree with him. So out of the four points so how much money did she lose out on by being involved with you? All clients got paid back including Alanis 100% in full. How did they get paid back? They got paid back, including Atlantis, 100% in full. How did they get paid back?

They got paid back by my firm and Lloyds of London as well. Oh, okay. So that's why I pay restitution today. Towards that payment? To Lloyds of London and to my former partners. Oh, okay. And so now what, first of all, you have tattoos. With like names, I'm assuming those are your kids.

Yes. So when did you get those? Not in prison. When you got out? No, before prison. Before prison you were this straight laced guy or because you were like kinda hip with your tats and your cool glasses.

Nobody knew I really had tats. I wore a suit or a long sleeve shirt. I did it about a year before I started gambling. What this art is is a lot of Jews, it's religious. So it's a Torah scroll. It's the Israeli wall. Even though if you're a Jew, I thought you weren't supposed to have tattoos.

You're not, so my rabbi wasn't happy with me. Because in theory, I don't own my physical body okay right so I'm not allowed to desecrate it but all this is Jewish tattoos and spiritual sayings I probably do regret that I did it today but again I can't I can't live in my past because a person who's in recovery to live in our past would not be healthy for our mindset. Right. So, so now tell me about like your day to day. So you, about, this is the place in which you are counselor.

Altus is that pronouncing right? Altus rehab. So it's in Encino. It's we have two homes. There's six beds. It's like a beautiful house. It looks like a real house if Beverly Hills would live there. Definitely. It's beautiful home. I'm a program director there. I'm a therapist there now. And I'm living like, I don't even consider it a job. I can use my academia in grad school and addiction studies along with my experience to establish

instant credibility with the clients that I see in sessions because the way addicts minds work, we have a lot of commonality and even though I make very little money today I literally am the happiest I've ever been. I live in a small one-bedroom apartment, I struggle financially, I go paycheck to paycheck, barely can pay my bills, I get a lot of overdraft fees every month in my bank account, but that's a result of my poor choices. Like I don't play the victim role. I don't play the woo me party.

I mean the truth is I own it, and it's something that I've learned to surrender to my higher power and accept that these consequences are a result of my choices. And what about your romantic life? What's that like? Today I'm blessed to have a woman in my life who she knows everything about me she's accepted me for who I am. I don't believe in cheating so when I got home

from prison this woman that I was sort of like engaged to. How did you meet her? Did you meet her while you were in prison or you were dating her before you left? When I was separating in from my wife. We started dating. And she stuck with you all throughout the prison? No, she didn't. Well, I thought she did, but she didn't. So when I came home, I learned that she cheated on me. And that was a really good lesson for me.

But you thought during the four years that she was being true to you? I suspected that she wasn't because she wasn't really touchy-feely. Like when she came to visit me rarely did she come to visit and on the phone I could hear a guy's voice and all of my All of the inmates that I hung out with would say Jonathan. You're so naive. She's cheating on you I'm like nah, she loves me stop come on and so it turned out that when I came home that she picked me up there was no hug it was she basically said me, you're sleeping on the couch and you're not, there's no intimacy. So I kind of knew, right? Well, why did she even want to, why did she even pick you up at all?

She had to pick, well she didn't have to, but if she didn't pick me up, I wouldn't have been released because she was the designated person to pick me up. So now I get an apartment. After two months living there, she's not talking to me at all and I'm wearing an ankle monitor and I have limited movements. I had to remain in the same apartment complex because that was the address for the probation officer. So now I have to get this small one bedroom,

this small studio that looks in her two bedroom apartment and I could see her and her boyfriend for nine months. So now I'm crying every night for nine months, woo me now. Back then I did the woo me. And it was such a great experience for me. Why? Because now I know how it feels to be cheated on. And the last thing I can, will do ever again

is to cheat on a woman. And, because now I know how it feels to be cheated on and know also how it feels to cheat on someone. So like, I really have beautiful communication with my girlfriend today. And because now I know how it feels to be cheated on and know also how it feels to cheat on someone. Yeah. So like I really have beautiful communication with my girlfriend today. She trusts me. I trust her.

By the way, I don't expect people in the entertainment space or anybody that I harm to trust me. If you're going to try to trust me, don't believe the words that you identify as my mouth as someone that manipulates and remembers because you're right, that was me. The only way I can earn back your trust is through my actions on a daily basis.

If you're interested to observe me and see who I am today, then I think you might consider trusting me again. And when I say trusting me again, just maybe accepting me to come and communicate with you. Have a cup of coffee. Okay, I have one last question. Up until the point that the assistant little league coach or whatever came up to you, have a cup of coffee. Okay, I have one last question. Up until the point that the assistant little league coach or whatever came up to you,

which was the beginning of the downfall end, you really were a completely truthful person. Yes. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. Because I mean, I always kind of wonder when you meet a liar, like when did the lie start? When can that happen? And yours truly was through the addiction.

Yeah, those six years were the worst six years of my life, including infidelity. And I mean, I could sit and laugh about it, for lack of a better word now, because the truth is, I don't, like I said, I don't continue to say like, I don't live in those in the past anymore, because I live in the present today. I don't think about tomorrow. Where is that? In doing your sentence and getting the lesser time, were they, were the government or whatever at all interested in who the bookie players were? No, I wish they were interested because if they were interested,

the bookie actually had $7 dollars and they could he could have given it all back to them and I my sentence would have been maybe a year and It's not pro-recovery behavior today for me to call out who his name is And to but they didn't want to go get him because they wanted to focus on me And if you so there was no benefit of telling but had you told would would you have thought that maybe that would have put your life at risk that or anything? I wasn't fearful of that. I mean this guy, he, if I were in his situation I would have taken care of his kids

had he been in prison. And not one time did he offer to give my children or my ex-wife money that he knows darn well he obtained illegally and he should have been the kind person to do that but he didn't. So again I don't carry resentments toward anybody. Well like where is he today? Is he still doing the same thing? He's still in Oak Park which is next to Agoura Hills. Yes I know. And I saw him one day and I had to bite my tongue. Where'd you see him? So when my Where is he today? Is he still doing the same thing? He's still in Oak Park, which is next to Agoura Hills. Yes, I know. And I saw him one day and I had to bite my tongue. Where did you see him?

So when my younger son graduated high school, we went to a restaurant in Westlake and my my my mom and stepfather and all three boys showed up. And actually, the woman I'm dating now showed up as well. And I saw him walking in and I know darn well he saw the family and I had to literally just say, okay, Jonathan, like this is a test for you from your higher power. Like just, you know what, don't stoop down to his level. Be the mature person you are today. Be emotionally present there for your son and his graduation dinner. And I did. And that's probably was the right

decision at that time. And if I were to see him again, I'd probably walk away. I don't really get involved in escalating conflict today. I try and live like a pretty flat lifestyle. I don't have too many ups and downs. Like I view every challenge as an opportunity today for me to learn and to be a better human being and to help people not make the same mistakes that I made.

Well, I really find it fascinating and whatever you do in sharing your story, and I mean, I do see it like it could be a movie. It's very interesting and juicy and kind of like a Wolf of Wall Street type of a thing. So I hope that if that's what you want, someone will make it happen for you. But in the meantime, for anyone that's listening to this

that wanna know more about you and the place that you work, where can they find you? So they could follow me on my Instagram account called TheRealJonathanSchwartz. And they could also look up altisrehab.com. It's spelled A-L-T-U-S. Yes, altisrehab.com. If they need help, we'll be happy to help them

if they're struggling with mental health or substance use. But if you just wanna talk and you have some questions, you could DM me on Instagram. I don't even know if that's the hip word to say at my age. You know, it is. It's called DMing, yeah. You could DM my kids. My youngest son makes fun of me because I try and ask him, how do you do this? How do you do that? He's like, word to say it. You know it is, it's called DMing. You can DM my kids, my youngest son makes fun of me

because I try and ask him how do you do this, how do you do that, he's like, dad enough already, you're not from Mars. And also you were gone for the four years that all of it came, it must have been, you must have come home and been like, what the hell is this? This is what I say to him, I said,

son it's like me coming back from planet Mars, I don't understand this. He said, dad please, enough questions. It's cute though, it's like cute panther so that anyone who needs help please have the courage to ask for help and you could DM me and I'll do whatever I can to help you don't be like me have the courage to be vulnerable and ask for help awesome well thanks so much for coming on this is great thank you for having me