Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Introducing JUICY CRIMES: The Fiancé, the Fake Cancer, and the Ultimate Scam

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Want to listen to the rest of this episode? Head over to Juicy Crimes: ⁠https://bit.ly/juicycrimes⁠ My guest today goes simply by Harry, and his story is one for the ages. What started as a 20 year love affair turned into a web of lies and deception so wild it’s hard to believe. From fake careers to serial cheating, Harry still believed in her love enough to propose, only to be told she was battling stage four cancer. Standing by her side, he hoped to make it to their wedding day, never realizing the shocking truth beneath it all. This case isn’t just messy romance, it’s betrayal, fraud, and a twisted love story straight out of a crime thriller. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, Juicy Scoopers. It's me, Heather here. I am so excited to announce that my True Crime podcast, Juicy Crimes, is now live. And I want to give you guys a taste of the first episode. In the debut episode of Juicy Crimes, I dive into an outrageous cancer scam with the victim himself. My guest, Harry, takes us on his very deeply personal journey through love, loss, and a betrayal that you won't believe. And he reveals how his perfect love story really just turned into an elaborate con that lasted for over 23 years. So get ready because episode one of Juicy Crimes starts now. Hello and welcome to Juicy Crimes. I have got a real juicy one for you. I discovered this podcast. Someone sent it to me. It's called the Rachel

Cancer Scam. And as my listeners know, throughout the 10 years of doing juicy scoop, I've been extremely interested in grifters, people who fake cancer schemes, people who love bomb, Dirty John. I was the first person to interview the person who cracked open and wrote about Dirty John on L.A. Times. It's something I've always been obsessed with. You guys might remember when I did serial dater about a man who dated several different women that I was just starting to tell my guest about. There's so much to get into this story.

Please welcome the host of the Rachel Cancer Scam and the person who was scammed by this Rachel, Harry. It's so great to be here. You know what? I have this hidden gossip obsession. It's like a, you know, it lives in a little place in my brain that I try to not let out, but, you know, hunting wives.

and, you know, there are things. Like, my girlfriend got me into hunting wives, and I said, oh, Heather's talking all about it. And now I'm, you know. Well, I'm glad to hear that you have a girlfriend. Yes. Because this other girlfriend, Rachel, is a story that is so incredible. So I start listening to it.

And in the first episode, you say, this is a woman I was involved with over a span of 20 years. And at the tail end of it, which is just in the last few years, You were engaged. You thought you had a baby on the way. She told you that she was a helicopter pilot, a trauma nurse, so she can fly the helicopter and save the people. She also was an attorney.

And she and all these things and a mother of how many kids? Four. of four kids and I'm going how a would you ever believe that someone could accomplish all that and have four kids and still at a regular job at the airport in san lewis obispo as a baggage handler and gate agents by the way not a lawyer not a trauma nurse not a pilot just so i can clarify this so so so let's get into it we can talk about it all so that i don't look like a complete moron only a partial moron. With Rachel, with my relationship with Rachel, she was an LVN, which is the level below an RN, and she had become a pilot just privately had taken some lessons. That was it. But she was a

lawyer and a nurse. Those were the two things with me. So she was never a helicopter pilot as I knew it. She was never a trauma nurse. She ran those scams on women that she worked with at the airport. So she was a high-level grifter where she could grift different people with different things. So let's go to the beginning of how you met her. Sure. Okay.

So here we have the, it's called the Messenger, the Rachel Cancer scam. That's the second season. Here is a photo of her. You blacked out her eyes. And she really was a beauty pageant, successful in beauty pageants.

What pageant was this? She was. This was one of the Miss Texas USA pageants, maybe the Miss Teen Texas USA pageant, I believe. And so she's very attractive, but what I recall from your podcast is you met her when she was a stripper. I met her. So let's hear the story of how you met. You're starting with the worst. She, I had moved to Las Vegas from New England. Okay. Came out to Vegas. I didn't know anybody. And now what year were we talking?

2001. Okay. I took a business trip to Houston. You know, I was single. I was making a chunk of money and I didn't know anybody. Can you say or be vague enough about what you did? I worked in a field related to the broadcast industry. I have radio in my background. I do voice work. At the time, I was working for communications college. Got it. And, you know, I didn't know anybody in the West Coast. I had a bunch of money in my pocket. And I went to Houston and I found the beauty queen. At a strip club. She was actually working as an escort. Okay. So you hired her as an escort. And how did you hire it as escort? Are we talking this? I mean, internet was around.

Was it through internet? It was through the internet. So I knew when I got there that that's what I was going to do. Okay. I thought, you know what? I'm 32 years old or 33 years old. I'm single. I'm having a tough time meeting people.

And this is what I'm going to do for an hour of fun. Okay. Whatever. So I met her, and immediately I was captivated because she really, at that time, was stunning. And she presents so well. And I was just enamored by her. So you have your one experience with her. And then do you keep in touch?

What happens? We kept in touch. The name she gave me when she was working as an escort was Madison. And when she met you as an escort, did she say, like, I don't do this a lot. or did she give you a girlfriend experience or what? She didn't really say much. She said she was new to it. I didn't know anything about the beauty page and stuff.

And when we were done, she said, listen, I had a really nice time. I'm going to give you my phone number. And my name isn't Madison. My name is Rachel. I thought great. So I ended up seeing her after that without the exchange of any money.

It was once as an escort and that was the end of that. And how often would you see her since you lived in different places because she lived in Houston and you're in Vegas. She ended up moving to Los Angeles shortly after I saw her. So I think I saw her once more in Houston and then a few times in Los Angeles. And when in Los Angeles in those early years, what did she say she was doing with her life? Going to law school.

Okay. Studying to become a lawyer, taking classes. But in reality at that time, was she a married mother yet? Not yet. She was working at the silver rain. Oh, the strip club. Okay, in L.A. I didn't know that.

But yes, that's where she was. And, okay, so then, so you, but you guys, how often are you talking? And do you talk on the phone? A few times between October of 2001 and maybe over the next year, we would talk on the phone periodically. She came to Vegas a couple times. I went to L.A. and when I was there on business, I'd take her to dinner. We'd visit and spend some time. And then she ended up getting married.

So you take her to dinner, you guys would have sex, spend the night together, and then, like, kiss her goodbye, no strings attached, nothing like that. I'm not going to disagree with what you said. I don't kiss and tell. I'm just going to say yes. Yes, Heather. Yeah. Okay. So then, okay.

So, what happens then where she gets married and starts having kids and you also get married and have some divorces? This is the craziest part of the story. It literally, the nonsense began. in a way here. In 2002, she meets a guy that she's working with at the strip joint. They get married. His name is Mark. By the way, Mark is still her husband today.

Right. Still her husband. Okay. They realize about six months into the marriage that Mark's divorce hasn't been finalized properly. Okay. So they get the divorce finalized properly. The next year, May 27th of 2003, Rachel and Mark go back to Las Vegas, go back to the Bellagio, go back to the marriage office. They get married again. Seven months after that, Rachel goes to Flint, Michigan and

marries a guy in Flint, Michigan. So she is a bigamist at that point. Who is the Flint, Michigan guy? He's a guy if you're familiar with the story that was connected to a guy named Bobby. Bobby was a hockey player in Houston, a guy that Rachel had a crush on. He's a part of the story. But Bobby was a friend, a sidepiece, for lack of a better word, of Rachel's. When Rachel went to see Bobby, after she married Mark, Bobby broke up with her. She said, you know what, I've had enough. When she had gone to see Bobby, he introduced her to this guy, Brian. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Rachel said, I'm not going to take this breakup lying down. She went back to the bar to meet Bobby's friend, struck up a relationship, and two months later she was married. married to him. So to get back at Bobby, the hockey player, she's like, I'm going to not only fuck your best friend, I'm going to marry him too. That's right. And by the way, I'm still married to Mark, who I just married seven months ago. And what does Mark think's happening

during all this? He doesn't have any suspicions? She disappears from Mark. Mark calls her phone one day. His own admission is 20 times. Brian answers the phone. Mark says, who's this? Brian says, I'm her husband. Mark says, I'm her husband.

In the history of arguments, who's ever won that conversation. And during this time, are you not in contact with her? Correct. I think, I think I was already out of the situation. Okay. So you're living your life and you do get married at some point, right? Correct. Twice, right? A couple years later. That's correct. Okay. And so you have two marriages, two divorces, no kids? Correct. And you're all in Vegas this whole time. Correct. Okay. So let's go back to what's really going on in her life. So how does, how does she, who does she end up divorcing and what's going on. She's married to two people.

It took Brian three years in Flint to divorce her. And the only reason it took him that long is Rachel refused service. So he was trying to divorce her trying and tried to serve her. And finally the judge said, we're going to grant you a divorce with her in absentia. Okay. So, so then she's back with Mark and he doesn't care that she was fucking somebody else? You know, I don't know. That's a really good question. And son of a bitch, shame on me for not saying, Mark, what the fuck? You know what I mean? How did you, like if my wife ran out? I mean, I just have to say, like what, I don't, like I said, I've listened to a lot of it. I follow you on social media. Have we seen what Mark looks like? Or he's staying in it. And is he like a decent

looking dude? Decent looking guys. Got one of those little Abe Lincoln things. He's, you know. What was his career? He worked as a sound and security installer. So he's a pretty bright guy. He's a tech guy. Okay. By all accounts, a good husband. And so when you find out that your wife had another husband in a different place, but you take her back, does someone like Mark ever share with his mother that her daughter-in-law is a hoe?

Like, do you share any of this? And how would anybody ever embrace her at another family function, knowing that she pulled. this even if your son takes her back. You haven't even gotten to this part in the podcast yet, Heather. Well, it bounced around, but yes. In 2012, Mark starts working up and down the coast, up to San Francisco, down to the, you know, Malibu, and Mark's mother is living with them. Okay. Rachel ends up bringing another guy named Mark home into that home where Mark's mother is. We're just friends. We're just friends one night in the middle of the night there are noises upstairs mark's mother realizes she's screwing this guy i'm in their house like what what is what so mark's mother says to mark

i can't be part of this i got to go and rachel you know the enemy of the narcissist is the truth so rachel had mark ostracized mark's mother from the family so for like 10 years mark didn't talk to his mother but why is mark so okay with her her being a serial cheater? You know, it's a great question. I've asked him a million questions. He's been on the podcast twice. I talked to him several times a week.

I mean, when he's up and down the coast, is he at least like getting love elsewhere? Maybe that's why he doesn't care that much. Did they have like an unconventional thing? They had four kids. And I think he just loved her and wanted to believe what he wanted to believe. Shame on, you know, for the same thing you'd say to me,

shame on you for not seeing it or dealing with it. For him, I don't know. know why and it was there it wasn't just one guy it was the marriage to the other to brian this guy whose name is mark also in 2012 there was another guy at that very same time that rachel told the same story she told to me which was i'm pregnant and i have cancer that she was working with the bank there were a group of guys in 2012 that she ran scams on okay so let's just because this is where i kind of just for my purposes need to just keep a limit are all, because I find it very confusing.

So now you're not in touch with her. You don't follow each other on anything because it's like mid-2000s. And then she gets back with Mark, has kids. Do they have money? Do they live in a decent house? Like, they're not like struggling. They're not like. Yeah, they made a decent living.

And honestly, they were never estranged. So once they were married officially in 2003 in Las Vegas, they never divorced again even to this day they're still married okay so she's having these kids yes when do you connect with her again around 2012 and how does that happen i reach out to her my marriage at the time is falling apart i found out number two marriage number one oh sorry i find out that my wife has been unfaithful and i reach out to her and how did you reach out to her she still had the I found her on social. Okay.

Facebook, I think. And hey, great to see you. Great to see you. We start talking. And I said, I'd love to reconnect again. And she said to me, what are you looking for? And I said, I don't know. I said, maybe happiness, right?

I was just unhappy. And then she told me, I've got a couple things to tell you to update you on my life. Number one, I have four children. number two daughter number two is the product of an essay a rather violent one and I have full custody of the kids because Mark has been beating me up and had beaten me up and then fast forward six eight months she suffers a really bad beating and when they open her up she tells me that she they found cancer in her and now she's got cancer that's where that started so let's go back a little bit So when she says, I have four kids, all with Mark, but number two was with someone else that came and what?

Was it someone she knew or she said? Somebody in a bar. Okay. And he was okay with that. She's pregnant. She's going to keep the baby or whatever. Okay. So these kids, when you start talking to 2012, are ranging in what age?

At that point, they were two to maybe seven or? something like that eight and at this point why would you want to get involved with a woman that has four kids and an abusive husband to be ex-husband to be like was she still looking that good in her Facebook posts that you were like I don't care that you have four kids I mean that's a lot hot or not that's like a who wants to take that like are you seeing yourself as stepdad of the year like when you never been a dad before is this where I get the phone a friend the fuck what

this was supposed to be fun this was supposed to be like hey these are the things like I'm just like listening to it as I'm walking my dog going I just don't like I want to know because I believe there are women I've always said this that have an ability just like men do

to kind of be a chameleon and turn into whatever that person is. When you hear about someone who's, when I find a woman's been married four times or whatever, I'm like, wow, you got four guys to get on a knee and say you are the greatest thing ever. And I am someone that's like, do they give the greatest blowjobs? Do they have some secret venous trap vagina? What the fuck is it? Or is it they're so, like, I think it's more that they just make you feel like you're the greatest thing. Like when I talk about a dirty John type, what I studied that case, I was like, I think a guy comes around and is like you are the

greatest, most beautiful, the funniest, the smartest. And us, as women, go, finally someone gets me. Obviously, we should be together because you think I'm this great. Like, if you didn't even come for me, I wouldn't come for you. It's just that you thought I was so amazing that therefore I love that. Heather, in the history of the world, and I learned this from a friend of mine that's 82 and he's never been married, he said to me, young man, in the history of the world, the only thing that's undefeated is pussy. And I thought about it for a minute. I thought, besides it being the most misogynistic thing, you could imagine, it's true. There is something that in the power that women have. To me, Rachel, there was something when I first met her

that was so charming and so wonderful and the way she would talk to me, there was something disarming to me about her and I was in a shitty spot. You said something interesting. You said they mirror you. Narcissists, one of their specialties and this one is a narcissist,

they mirror you. This is what she did to me when I got caught up in the cancer scam. I was just in a spot where I was, I suppose, in love with the idea of being loved or in love. I mean, you see yourself as a Captain Save a Ho. What are we doing here?

Yeah. And I've shared my background a little bit with you and on the podcast. Captain Sabahoe is an interesting descriptor. I think that when I found out that she was getting beaten up and she had cancer, my instinct kicked in. It took her three days to try to talk me out of going to deal with Mark. So she tells you this. And yeah, that's what I was like, wouldn't your first instinct to be like, why aren't you calling the police?

Why aren't you getting a protective order? Do you need an attorney? I'm not going to risk my life and end up in jail. Like, I'm not going to beat him up, but like he better beat the fuck out of the house. Like, if this is something that you really cared about, why didn't you go that route? Honestly, my opinion was fuck the police. I'll go there and take care of it myself. Okay.

I've got a background. Okay. And I didn't have an issue with it. And that's what I wanted to do. It just infuriated me that he would do that. And to find out. And this is all just on the phone. Is she sending you photos of a black guy or anything?

I think I got a couple of pictures when she was beaten up. And by the way, she invented a friend by the name of Laura, who shared part of this story. I would get texts from her and all that. When I was investigating the entire story, one of the things that came up was the number for Laura was actually registered to Rachel. I talked to this woman.

This was before people were cloning voices. I talked, she had someone that was complicit in her storytelling. Wait, you think it was a whole other person or you think it was just her doing a voice? I think it was a whole other person. I think she had a friend who she said, will you do me a favor and use my phone and call him and tell him? I think she had a partner and cram. I think it was just her doing voice. I don't think it's that hard to do a voice, maybe because I do voices.

But I used to like break up with guys for friends and they would like listen on three way. and I would be the person breaking up with them because they didn't know what to say. And then I'd be like, you're such an idiot. That guy was so nice. But I'd be like, hi, and I would just do their voice. So I'm like, I think she could just create a voice. Okay.

I don't know that she, you really think people would, I guess she could lie to them. Here's what I think. Okay, tell me what you think. Mark knows Laura. Laura Edwards is her name. Okay. Rachel and Mark work together.

Oh, so she does exist. Okay. She's a person. Okay. Laura Edwards and Rachel worked together at Kindercare in Santa Clarita. So she was also a daycare provider?

She did, she had a little daycare, I saw it, she had a license to, not even, you know, I guess a daycare provider. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So she worked at one of those places. Okay. Yeah.

Okay, so when she says this horrible thing happens in 2012, then are you like, now have you, physically gotten together yet since 2002? No, I think I saw her maybe a year and a half after. It took time, but I did end up seeing her after that.

After what? After 2012. So the fake attack happened to 2012. So then when you see her after that, is it your understanding that now she is free of him? And she's a divorced woman. Correct. And she is, yeah.

She also had a new guy come into. her life that Laura told me about, a hero. Okay. Guy named Bobby. Turns out Bobby was the same guy from the early 2000s that she was obsessed with in Houston. The hockey guy. She invented him to come back into her life. She ends up marrying her in our story.

Wait, so Bobby doesn't exist? Bobby does exist. But he doesn't exist in 2012. Bobby existed in 2000 and 2001 in Houston as a professional hockey player who, ended up breaking up with Rachel. So then she tells you, professional hockey player, my ex-boyfriend, has come back in my life.

When she told me about Bobby and I know this is a lot to follow. When she told me about Bobby in 2012, he wasn't Bobby the hockey player. He was a guy that was in the wine business in Paso Roble's. Bobby's father owned a law firm. It was a lawyer.

When Rachel graduated law school, she worked in Bobby's father's law firm. Bobby ended up apparently fathering another child outside of the marriage and then she killed Bobby off. In her fake story. In her story. So Bobby

never existed because she never went to law school. She never worked at a law firm. Bobby was a hockey player in the early 2000s. So do you think she told you that she had this winner of a guy that has money and is of a law firm

world to make you be jealous and desire her more? I think ultimately it was to desire her more. I think she had a storyline. This is no different than a movie script. I think she said I'm going to develop this character named Bobby, a name from my past, and I'm going to create this

new plot line for Bobby. And Bobby was in her life from 2014 to 2017, and Bobby passes away of an overdose. Now, during this time, you're still in Vegas. she's in San Luis Obispo's now.

Yes. And you're into her, but are you physically seeing her? I saw her once or twice. I got divorced at that time. Okay. And then I ended up getting remarried to someone who I was friends with who I, I don't want to say much about that. Well, does wife number two, did she know about Rachel?

Did not. Did she ever suspect that you were talking to something? I wasn't talking to Rachel during those two years. I never did that. I never communicated with Rachel during those two years when I married wife too. So then wife number two, how long does that last? A couple years. There's infidelity there, not on my side. And it was ugly. So every girl in your life has cheated on you? Yeah, at least a couple of them have. And have you looked into that? Heather. I'd like to phone a friend.

Again, how many calls, how many friend calls can I make during this? I mean, what are these, are these women all a certain type? I mean, you went for someone that was selling her body, that was a stripper. Is that kind of your type?

Like a girl that, you know, is super sexual, but will make you, convince you that, you know, she's Mary Magdalene and she's going to change her ways because you are that. that moral high ground and great guy.

So you're going to make a whole a housewife. Listen, moral high, and I'm not some moral high ground. I hired a hooker. Right. But I'm saying in your mind, what, like, is that the trick that these women use? Sure. Okay. And that, by the way, that's the expression the hookers have.

A guy is a trick. Why is he a trick? I'm going to trick them into thinking that I'm into them. I'm into them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so so then the other marriage dissolves and then went and then and you weren't talking to her during the second marriage

I might have gotten a couple messages but nothing nothing in person no and I'll tell you what now that I think about it Rachel sent me some pictures during my marriage that I just like put away and didn't I don't think I even responded to like pictures sexy pictures yeah sexy pictures and and I just quickly like hey miss you and it's just like... Yeah, you know, naked. And weren't you scared that the wife might lean over and see that? I deleted them off my phone.

Okay. I'm like, no, I don't want any part of that. I can't be part of that. I can't have that temptation around me, not because I can't resist it, but I just can't... It's not okay. Yeah.

Like if my... If I saw that my wife was getting naked pictures from a guy, I'd be fit to be tied. Okay, so now this is a photo who covered her eyes to, but you can see she is attractive. She has pretty blonde hair. She has a good dye job extensions or real hair.

I don't know. She has a sense of style. And she tells you, she sends us to you and says, it's picture day at the law firm. Now, what year is this? 2017. So you think during the time that you're in and out of these two marriages, she has successfully gotten divorced,

had another boyfriend who died, and is no longer pursuing, is no longer really a nurse anymore because now she's a lawyer. The nurse was a backup. She said, I'm keeping the nursing license just in case I need it. I'm keeping it active. So you must think that this beauty pageant turned stripper, turned hooker, turned nurse daycare provider, now lawyer. I mean, when does the end mother of four?

Like, when does she sleep when she's going? I mean, even Kim Kardashian is still not a lawyer. And she had all the help in the world to pass the bar without going to long. school. And she has four kids. So how did you think that she was doing this? Was she just the most genius stripper that ever lived? Listen, I thought in 2001 when I met her and she said she was going to go to law school and starting to take classes. And the fact that she didn't end up passing the bar until 2015 or 16, I thought that seems to be a reasonable enough time. If she's taking her classes online, California is the only state in the country that allows you

to take the bar online and then pass it and get your JD and then allows you to do an apprentice program to become a lawyer you don't have to go to actual law school there's only one person in the history of that program that's gone through that program and is now a practicing lawyer by the way just I found that out after the fact so to me the accomplishments weren't anything out of the ordinary she got an LVN license because she went to college she told me she went to college. She said that she had a, excuse me, a degree in biomathematics. So she had a degree in biomathematics after she was doing beauty pageant stuff, with Eva Longoria, by the way, was in the also pageant. And with that degree, she's like, I would also like to have,

I'd also like to be a high class hooker because that looks like fun and pretty woman was my favorite movie. I think she left high school and thought the way I'm going to make money is I'm going to capitalize on the fact that I'm beautiful. that I get attention. You think she ever went to college? She never, by the way, she barely graduated high school. Right. So, no, she didn't go to college.

Didn't go to college. But you believe she did have a college degree, and she was just doing this to supplement her lifestyle. I'm a man of reasonable intellect. I may be an asshole and an idiot or whatever you think I am. I don't think you're a bad person. I'm fascinated by the story, obviously. And I do ask the questions people don't ask.

So I appreciate your honesty. I firmly believe that she she's a smart woman, but she's sneaky smart and she's evil smart. Yeah. And I fell for that. I wanted to believe, listen, I wanted to believe her and I wanted to believe in her. So what I get, what I don't get is, and we haven't even gotten to the cancer part. The scam is just being a pathological liar, getting people to, you know, you know, be in her life, believe her, whether they're friends or romantic or whatever,

loving the attention of various men and playing them against each other. But at this point, she's not making money off of this. She's not having you send her $5,000 a month or anything like that. So like, so it's really just a scam of mind-fuckery. when the scam was exposed heather she sent mark a message and she was trying to explain her lies and she said to mark i lied to harry about cancer for attention okay so now let's go back to how the lie happens so now you think she is practicing lawyer she is divorced she has four kids She lives in San Luis Obispo, and she also works at the airport?

She was not working yet physically at the airport. To me, with me, she never worked at the airport. Until her cancer scan was exposed, I never knew she worked at the airport. Okay, so when is the next time that you physically, like, get together romantically? August 27th, 2021, we meet in Santa Barbara. That's where the whole thing begins. Okay. So you have, like, a lovely weekend.

And chemistry, just like it always was. Stunning. Still very, very attractive. How old is she at that point? She's 40 maybe. And so, and she, you think she is a divorced mom of 40 practicing attorney living in San Luis Obispo. Correct. Who drove a few hours down to meet you in Santa Barbara.

Correct. And you have a lovely evening or weekend. Yeah. And at that point, you leave Santa Barbara and you're like, this is the woman of my dreams. I'm going to, we're going to live together. I'm going to be a stepfather. I'm going to go see when she tries a case in court. Like, what in your mind are you thinking your future looks like?

That night over dinner, I'm looking at her and I'm thinking, I've known you half of your life. I met you when you were 21. And you are an accomplished woman. And I'm proud of you. And like, Heather, I could do without the laugh. this is this is where I was like I know I know I don't I get I get why you know the thing is it's so embarrassing when someone love bombs you lies as a grifter whether it's a friend whether it's romantic because you are a good person and you don't lie yourself so it doesn't occur when people

like I was so dumb I can't so I know I'm like laughing whatever I'm not because it's like I've interviewed enough people and I've counseled enough people when they are so hard on themselves. And I'm like, but why wouldn't you believe that you were lovable and that this person was this great person and that you deserve this great person? Why would you think that someone who's entering your life is lying about their career? You wouldn't think it. So I'm saying yeah. So I, you know, but I get, but you know, when you add it all up, yeah, it all, it doesn't make sense. But at the same time, I see where you're coming from. Especially at that point on August 27th the 2021. I'm thinking, boy, look at what you've become. You're still very beautiful and you're

sweet. And the way she would talk to me, there was something to me about that, always. There was something that provided comfort to me and her voice. Well, why don't you tell us so girls can hook some guys? Like, a lot of girls are trying to get a guy. What is the secret? Rachel told me something in October when I was getting ready to go to Billy Bush's birthday party, which I talk about in the podcast. She had written me, and this is how she hooked me, I think. She wrote to me and said, we can no longer keep doing what we're doing. We can't be friends with benefits. You can't fly to Santa Barbara. I can't come to Vegas. I need to see what I'm capable of. And I looked at that like it was an ad. It was like my hold my beer moment.

I said, wait a minute, if that's what you're looking for. Like a full, a real relationship. Like a relationship. Why don't we look at doing that? Like, why haven't we ever connected before? There have been periods of time where we were both single between 2012 and now. Between Mark, Bobby, and Michigan, Flint, or what if Flint, Michigan? Okay, go on. Yeah. God, you are, you are tough. This is like Ted Cople with tits.

Like, what the fuck? I thought this was going to be fun. Go on the gossip show. It'll be great. It'll be fucking great. Now my, thank God I'm not wearing my Apple watch. It would be calling the police. Like, have you fallen?

Is there an emergency? Jesus Christ. Okay, go on. Yeah. Okay, so, I'm thinking, where was I? You said, why don't we have a real relationship? Why don't we have a real relationship? She's like, you know.

She's accomplished. She's a lawyer. Nothing is far-fetched. Like, she's got an LVN license that she doesn't use. She's Reith Whitherspoon and Legally Blonde. That's right. Yeah. And she's just doing her thing.

And I thought, boy, she's beautiful and she's smart. And she loves me. And so she writes to me before we go to Billy Bush's house. and she said, I can't do this. I'm looking to see what I'm capable of these days. I'm ready to be loved and I'm ready to love. And I said, if that's what you're looking for, if you're serious, I'm interested in exploring that with you.

Not like, let's get married today. But if that's what you're looking for, maybe this is our time. Now, at this time, does she even talk about her kids? Their activities. Oh, my God, this one is doing this in the house. I mean, a mother of four, it sounds from your podcast that she really didn't, and you didn't overly ask. I did, and I've deliberately kept the children out of it. One of her daughters is a very accomplished, very good softball player.

Her oldest daughter, who she is estranged from, Madison, is in school, and I think he's going to end up being a doctor. Her 14-year-old, and this is verified, just graduated college over the spring last year. Real story, true story. It's been in the paper. There was a new story. Her 14-year-old graduated from college. Yeah, while in high school. the way while in high school brilliant it's on the news i'll send you crazy well i mean sometimes

i'm just like yeah sometimes that hype i mean i do believe intelligence is somewhat genetic not always but somewhat can be and i do think they're it like not skips a generation or the parents didn't really use their intelligence in the right way and like and then they like push their kids so much. But that's insane that she has like a genius child while she, what was she even home with them? By the way, in the middle of this podcast, two months ago or three months ago, she calls the local news station in San Luis Obispo and says, my daughter is this genius child that graduated from college at 14 years old. And she's on the fucking news. And I, Rachel is. And I saw, and I didn't put it on my podcast. I didn't talk about it in social media.

And I thought, the nerve of her to know that I'm talking about her every single day. And you're going to put yourself on the news? Get the fuck out of here. Okay, so we got to get to wear this all. Okay, so she doesn't talk that much about the kids, but you're just like, let's try to have a real relationship. So after that, then how often are you physically seeing each other? We saw each other a bunch. There's a bunch of, there's a bunch of time between August 27.

and the, you know, really through April of 2022. So August of 21. So for like five, six months, you're seeing each other always in these like rendezvous cities or do you ever, did you ever go to her house and see her kids and spend the night? I wrote to her and called her on November 1st of 2021. I said, I need to talk to you. I flew to Santa Barbara and I sat with her and I said, listen, I want to make. a go of this. I want us to be a couple. And she looked at me like I had six heads.

Finally, I had to say it three times. Finally, the next day we agreed to it. We become a couple on November 4th, 2021. From that point, we begin communicating every single day. I end up going back and forth to Santa Barbara once or twice. And then I go to a Tascadero, which is where she was living. A month and change after that. So a Tascadero, where is that? In between Paso-Robles and San Luis and isro. Okay. And do you ever go to her house? or you just stay at a hotel? I stay at a hotel. I meet the girls once.

Where? Only once. In-N-Out Burger. Her daughter, Madison, worked it in-and-out in a Tascadero. And she's like, did she say this is my boyfriend, Harry? Oh, no.

What she told, first of all, what she told me was, we have to pretend like we're not together. I promised them after Bobby that I would never bring another man into their life. All right, Juicy Scoopers. Thank you for listening to the first half of Juicy Crimes' first episode.

If you want to find out more about what happened to Harry, click the link in the description to listen to the full episode. New episodes of Juicy Crimes will drop every Wednesday. So subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss out.