Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Juicy Crimes with Matt Murphy on Menendez Brothers, Marijuana, Murders, and Serial Killers

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

Update! Justin Baldoni releases raw footage to prove Blake Lively’s complaint against him has no merit. Then everyone’s favorite prosecutor and 20/20 Correspondent, Matt Murphy is back! Matt gives his opinion on the LA fires even if it’s controversial. Matt explains why fhe Menendez Brothers should not be released and why. Then Matt explains why his last case, now a Hulu documentary, was so shocking. It involves marijuana, Newport Beach, Iran and a severed penis. Then Matt shares how he was a consultant for Anna Kendrick on “Woman of the Hour” because he was the real life prosecutor! So juicy! • Start the new year off right with Honeylove. Get 20% OFF by going to  https://www.honeylove.com/JUICY ! #honeylovepod • Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/juicyscoop/  • Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and get $625 off with the code JUICYSCOOP at  https://www.irestorelaser.com/JUICYSCOOP ! #irestorepod Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald on iTunes, the podcast app, and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPodApple  https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: https://juicyscoopshop.com  Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Like so worried about my sister. You're engaged! You cannot marry a murderer! I was sick, but I am healing. Returning to W Network and Stack TV. The West Side Ripper is back! If you're not killing these people, then who is? That's what I want to know.

Starring Kaylee Cuoco and Chris Messina. The only investigating I'm doing these days is who shit their pants. Killer messaged you yesterday? This is so dangerous. I gotta get out of this. Based on a true story. New season premieres Monday at 9hood and society's expectations, Academy Award-nominated Amy Adams stars as a passionate artist who puts her career on hold to stay home with her young son.

But her maternal instincts take a wild and surreal turn as she discovers the best, yet fiercest, part of herself. Based on the acclaimed novel, Nightbitch is a thought-provoking and wickedly humorous film from Searchlight Pictures. Stream Nightbitch January 24 only on Disney+. Clear your schedule for U-Time with a handcrafted espresso beverage from Starbucks. Savor the new small and mighty Quartado, cozy up with the familiar flavors of pistachio, or shake up your mood with an iced brown sugar oat shaken espresso.

Whatever you choose, your espresso will be handcrafted with care at Starbucks. Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr. Snake, and serial data, and serial systems. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up, woo woo,

Hannah McDonald, Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well you guys, I'm so excited. I'm getting ready to come to the East Coast and I'm bringing Juicy Scoop, the hilarious comedians that have come on the show before, Andrea Lopez and Anna Roisman. You know them, you love them.

They're gonna be featuring with me. We're gonna be doing some funny sketches, some improv, some standup, all of it. And that is February 14th at the Playdome in New York. Then we go to DC on the 15th and on the 16th, Red Bank, New Jersey. Everything is at HeatherMcDonald.net. Now, before we get into my really juicy interview with everyone's favorite prosecutor, Matt

Murphy, you're going to die. We get into a lot of it. But first, I just want to give a little update on the Blake versus Justin legal battle. You know, the last two times I've talked about it, I've gotten a lot of comments like, Heather, I can't believe that you are at all siding with Blake. Like, Justin has been in your position where people have said lies about you and you want to prove that these are not true. And I have done more research on it. Look, it's a lot of pages, it's a lot of things. And I will say the more and more is coming out. I see why the majority of people are team Justin Baldoni. I really do. And it is very interesting. And now, originally, I thought maybe this is why he's doing this $400 million lawsuit,

is just to get this lawsuit out in the public so that people can read it all and see all of his text messages. And he's got all these uncut scenes and videos because it's his production company that was in charge of this film to prove his point that he was not ever acting inappropriately to Blake Lively and all of this. There are so many details to it.

So he recently, his people put out a video from the movie, which they were shooting for a montage. So it was going to be just parts of music so they could talk. And but they had to be like romantic and act like they're dancing and they're having this conversation and they're trying to like act like they're about to kiss. And she goes, Oh my God, this is so many noses. And he's like, Oh, I have a big nose. And she's like yeah and you you know I want to talk to you about that and they're kind of joking and she's like

you know you could take a day off or we could do an insurance month or something meaning like stop production and get you a nose job and then he goes oh yeah that's why we hired Jenny Slate because they play brother and sisters sister and so that I kind of thought was like a dig to her, but you know, whatever. But also then people did some research and Blake Lively indisputably has had a nose job, which maybe that's why she was like talking about it.

Maybe she would have confessed to him. Maybe he already knew. If you look at her first movies She has a very different nose than she has now just a little interesting but in this he was like look clearly we had a Easy relationship. She's comfortable with me. I'm I'm supposed to be Acting romantic with her for this montage scene. So he snuck,, you know, sniffing her neck and she's like, oh, sorry, that's my spray tan. It must smell. He's like, no, it smells good.

So he puts that out. And then her team are like, good, I'm glad you put it out. Now you can see how inappropriate it was and how uncomfortable I was. And I was saying these weird jokes because I was so uncomfortable with you. I don't think the audience is buying it. I think this is a real fine line because it's a movie and because you are playing a romantic couple. So it is very, very strange. And now he has set up a website so that everybody can go to this website

and see for themselves all this evidence. Blake Lively's team has asked a judge to stop this, like, you know, and his attorney doing interviews and everything. There is a consensus of was she secretly in love with Justin, flirting with him and once he officially rejected her, then she went on this campaign to destroy his life. Did Ryan Reynolds maybe see these long texts that now we are privy to and think that it was inappropriate or flirty on her end and therefore he also went after Justin? It's weird because the movie, we knew they weren't getting along. The movie was a success. We kind of forgot about it. We forgot that they

didn't go. When I saw this like a month and a half ago before the lawsuits, I wasn't thinking, oh that's right, the two of them didn't really like each other when they were at the premiere. I had totally forgotten about it. She came forward with all these complaints to say, you have destroyed my reputation. I didn't think her reputation was at all destroyed, but was it a little tarnished? Did we think she was a little bitchy? Sure, but not to the point that no one wanted to work with her. But because she did that, then he had to go after her. Otherwise he was staying silent about it. So what do we think is gonna come of it?

There are predictions from, he will get a settlement that we will never know because she won't want to go to trial with this because it appears he has so much evidence in his favor to say that her complaints were invalid, or will they end up getting, will she and Ryan end up breaking up over this? Like, what is going to happen? My prediction, or will it go to trial, like

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard? I don't know. I'm going to, I'm going to say it does get settled and, and he ends up prevailing and he ends up getting a lot of work because of it. And she goes away for a little bit. We just don't really hear from her in a while. And then she comes out and does something really good in about like two or three years, like a series or something. And this is all forgotten.

People forget about it. And as long as whatever new project she does, she brings cookies, and it is a delight and looks everyone in the eye, and Ryan Reynolds is nowhere to be seen on the set, providing they're still together, then I think everyone could be fine. So that is my prediction settlement. And Ryan continues to have a successful career. She goes away for a little bit, comes back, continues to have a successful career. She goes away for a little bit, comes back, continues to have a successful career.

But if where their relationship is as Ryan and Blake, I don't know, but Ryan will continue with Deadpool and continue to be successful because he's a dude and nobody cares. Girls are much harder on Blake for sure. And judging her behavior than anything Ryan could do. Also, Real Housewives of New York. Wow, I know I haven't talked much about it.

I've said it's boring. The finale was very upsetting and weird. Juicy, like I leaned forward, I watched it. It involves Bryn straight, straight up, possibly lying about a situation with Uba. And I'm gonna get into it because I have a lot of theories and some personal things that I know about the players involved.

But I noticed that even though I thought it was a really juicy episode, again, nobody was really talking about it because I think that you guys have lost interest in it. But I will share that and so much more on my Patreon. You guys have to join my Patreon if you have not already. I've been doing it for eight years. You get access to all the past episodes. They never have commercials. And also, we get into so much juicy stuff with Matt Murphy that we go long. And I saved the more controversial, juicy conspiracy theories, things like that, for a special episode of Juicy Crimes, which is on that tier of Patreon.

Also, you'll be getting that this weekend. All of that and the tickets to my shows, as well as March 1st at Agua Caliente in Palm Springs, are at heathermcdonald.net. Okay, now for my interview. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have returned author, former prosecutor, everyone's favorite surfer, Matt Murphy. Welcome back to Juicy Scoop.

Thank you. Me and Kelly Slater, we're colleagues. Are you guys, do you know him? No, I got paid to do, I got a Hulu thing coming out on a three parter and they wanted to do some B-roll with me surfing. Okay. Which was the worst day of surfing

the history of Manhattan Beach. It was like two feet, even smaller. It's just like embarrassing. Super gray, like nothing that I could possibly do. But technically I got paid for it, which makes me a pro surfer, which means Kelly Slater is my colleague. Are they going to use it in the Hulu thing? Yeah.

And what is the Hulu thing on? So the Hulu thing is on my Nyeri case, my last trial as a DA that we were going to go into. OK, we're going to get into this. Your book is out. Juicy Scoopers have loved it. And I wanted to ask you, the first thing you've said when you got here,

I was like, ooh, has anybody wanted to make this a series or a movie about your life in general? Because the book covers Juicy murders, but also your life as a prosecutor in Newport Beach. So, right when I left the DA's office, and this is really kind of fun, Jerry Bruckheimer bought my life rights. Oh.

And that was a really interesting ride for me. So I go from 26 years as a government public servant doing all these interesting cases, and they really liked the idea of a surfing prosecutor. So for like a series. For a series, yeah, for like a scripted series. They loved the base. They hired these two great writers who I really liked.

They write for the show Bull. And we completely, we hit it off. And, but this is, COVID is just kind of starting to set in. It was a weird time. And then we wound up, they put together this idea and it was like, sort of ensemble, like who's your investigator, who's your paralegal. Yeah, I can totally see it.

You're going to murder scenes and it was, essentially it was all loosely based on real life. I can totally see it, it's like your character holding the surfboard and then you're like, what's my investigator doing here? And he's like, here's a coffee. Well, let me tell you what I got. Like, I can totally see it. Which the funny thing is, you can see it on TV and that's the way it really kind of was.

Yeah. That's the thing about working for a vertical homicide unit for all those years, because they let you stay. I was in homicide for 17 years. And I had Newport, Costa Mesa, as you know, Laguna Beach and Irvine. So every one of those murders, I was at Costa Mesa yesterday doing some admin work. I still think this has got to happen.

I, yeah. The case, the made up cases could be so fun if we stick to that area, which is true to you. And now America is much more familiar with because of TV and Real Housewives of OC and all of that. And, oh, I think that's okay. We got to make it happen. So this deal is dead now. We need to find a new buyer to sell your TV show. Yeah. So the book came out in September and I've got my, my agent's a guy named Mark McGrath

at CIA and he is a rock star. I love him. And so he's got, he's one of the, he's constantly thinking, he's constantly got ideas. So this is like next phase. Well, this is, this episode of Juicy Scoop is what's gonna seal your deal. I make careers happen. Which is very nice.

I'm gonna tell you what the show idea is going to be. And there could be some humor in it. You know, a real housewife could make, you know, there could be some crime, and actually A real housewife could make, there could be some crime. And actually, one real housewife is like a witness or something. She's an ex-wife of somebody. And she's like, I don't want this.

And then you're like, wait, look at this episode of Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen. Wait, go back, go back. Do-do-do-do. What did she say right there? And like, oh, done. My god, why is this not already happening? I'm all for you being a soothsayer, especially since I've been cheating on you with Megyn Kelly.

Right. Let's get into the real issues here. Yes, I saw you on Megyn Kelly. You know what? I just, it's fine. You know, there are people we could see, you know, they could talk to us. I think we could make great progress with a professional. But you did say this is more your favorite. You do enjoy me more than my blonde counterpart. This is absolutely my favorite.

Here's the thing with Meg and Kelly, and also Sonny Hassen had me on as well. And in the Venn diagram of those two women, politically in the world, I may be the one point of agreement because I actually get along great with both of them. Of course, why wouldn't you? But Megyn Kelly is such, she's like,

she's such a pro when you sit down with her that it's, to me, it's almost weirdly intimidating because she's got like, every clip is lined up perfectly. You know, like she's, and she's just, and they don't, she doesn't tell you, you know, ahead of time, and so I wind up with like, she's like, she pulled ancient clips of me in court during the cross-examination.

She's like, I'm telling her a story, and she's like, oh yeah, we got that. Here it is, boom, and all of a sudden I'm watching myself and it's, but yeah, she is, it's funny, we live in an interesting time though, because she helped me talk about the book, you know, and she's a true crime fan too, like just in general. And it is, you know, you go on Megan Kelly's show

and I think she's frigging awesome. And then I get Instagram hate because I went on her show and then I go on Sonny's show and then I get like Instagram hate you know like it's. But you don't get any hate when you come on mine. Very little. Probably about certain opinions or something. You know what I got in trouble was when we were talking about the Karen Reed case.

People were freaks about the Karen Reed case. Like they you know what it is, is with certain legal cases, which I do talk about, I'm talking a lot about Blake and Justin, you know, and some of the people that are really, really into it happened with with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. And I'm like, let remind remind you, and even though I am doing some juicy crime stuff with you, I am not a lawyer. I did not read 179 pages of the case. I was not in the jury. But there are lay people that really have put in

eight to 10 hours, and they're watching other people that are putting eight to 10 hours. And then I do seven minutes on it, and I'm doing a comedic commentary. I'm like, that's the show. It's comedic commentary on pop culture and crimes and stuff. I don't know it. I'm just saying this is out there and this is what I find is interesting.

Like chill out. But I love that it sparks any kind of emotion for someone to write something good, bad or whatever, you know? Camille Vasquez. I told you she was my old student, right? Yeah, who was the Johnny Depp's? She was the lawyer that cross-examined Amber Heard. Well, a lot of people are comparing this Justin Blake

Lively stuff to that kind of a situation. And people really already, before we even get to any kind of trials or whatever with Justin the everyone has shifted to pro Justin and Anti, you know anti Blake, which I can understand why however You know, we'll see we'll see I think it'll never make it to trial. I think we're heading towards some type of like Quiet shut up, but we'll see what happens You know I think we talked about this

back in the day about Johnny Depp. Like I kind of thought when that first got filed, that was the best result for everybody. If it's just, you know, without really understanding it before I talked to Camille about it. I thought like this should just quietly go away and everybody kind of goes there. But you know, it wound up being sensational.

It wound up being a trial. And I understand why he did it now. Like he wanted, he was trying to restore his reputation after getting just mauled and that's what just apparently that's what Justin is doing too And it's kind of like he got I think both of the men feel like they're in a place where they're like I've got nothing to lose. Yeah, I already lost it. And so it's like no, let's go. Let's go and so Yo, I'm super hyped to say that today's episode is brought to you by Whole Foods because I actually shop at Whole Foods. We get all our groceries there where they're like a couple of times a week, man, just buying

all the food for the family. Okay. They got mad organic produce. They got no antibiotics ever meat. And did you know they have such standards? All right. Whole Foods bans more than 300 questionable ingredients from all of the food they sell. For example, nothing in the store

has high fructose corn syrup. I didn't even know that until I read this ad and that's lit because all I know is that stuff is bad for you, okay? And they got these low price signs, these yellow signs that you can look for that show you their most competitively priced items with the highest quality you can expect from Whole Foods. And

um I just you know and they got their house brand the 365 which we actually shop from. I get their 365 cheese. We get the bread. I go to their their in-store deli. I buy the bacon from there. They just sell like just bacon every morning so I don't have to you know cook my own bacon. I I act and there's different flavors. It's so good for real. And you can order your Whole Foods delivery. You can order your Whole Foods groceries on Amazon and get free pickup and convenient delivery on all of your wellness journey essentials. It's lit. Terms apply. So, you know, look for your local Whole Foods and get some groceries, man. Bye. Telehealth has made mental health care more convenient and accessible for millions of people. However, critical challenges like finding a suitable therapist, scheduling appointments, Telehealth has made mental health care more convenient and accessible for millions of people.

However, critical challenges like finding a suitable therapist, scheduling appointments, and the expensive out-of-pocket costs still keep many of us from getting the care that we need. Rula is on a mission to make high-quality mental health from a licensed professional easy and affordable for everyone. Rula's got you covered. They take most major insurance plans, and the co-pay is only $15 per session. You can now get the quality care you need when you need it at a price you can afford.

I think mental health is so important. I think talking to a therapist is really key for so many of us, whether it's something that you're going through that hopefully is temporary or just an ongoing therapist to get through life's everyday challenges. And it is hard to find a good therapist.

And oftentimes people don't go because they've made it so difficult. That's what I love about RULA. Thousands have already trusted RULA to support them on their journey towards improved mental health and overall wellbeing. Head over to rula.com slash Juicy Scoop to get started today.

After you sign up, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support juicy scoop and tell them I sent you. Go to rula.com slash juicy scoop and take the first step towards better mental health today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. Let's get into real quickly too. You know. We talked about right when you got here, what are your thoughts about the LA fires? And this is where it gets a little juicy, a little controversial. Might have to put this on Patreon. Tell me what you think.

Well, first of all, I lived in the Palisades. When I was in high school going to Loyola, I had some problems with my dad, and he wound up kicking me out for a while. And the family that took me in was one of my friends at Loyola, still one of my best friends, Greg Maffei. His parents are now 90. They live in the Castlemore section of the Palisades,

and half their neighborhood burned down. And I don't think I ever want to see- They're still alive in their house's standing? Their house is standing. How it is standing, it's probably just good old fashioned, like asbestos everything, you know, asbestos bricks, because their next door neighbor, the house behind them,

like literally all in a ring, and their fence is burned down. But they're 90 years old, and it was traumatic for them. Of course. And I never wanna see another 90 year old man cry. We grew up here, right? Everybody in LA knows somebody that was fundamentally traumatized by this. And look, and this is not getting political here, but when you hear that the fire hydrants

weren't frigging working and we had an empty reservoir, and everybody from the governor on down is just trying to point fingers somewhere else, it is infuriating when you see the actual like, you know, like somebody needs to step up and take some responsibility for that and we haven't seen it yet. And it is when you get into the nitty,

like the actual human trauma of that, that everybody in LA has experienced vicariously with somebody, like my buddy, I'm going to Samoa on Saturday, like two days on a surf trip with my buddy Sean, who I've talked about before. We go on all the trips, he's in the book. You know, he lost his house, his mother's house,

and his mother-in-law's house in those fires. And now he's obviously not going on the trip. Like this was- Do they have kids? Does he have kids? Yeah, he's got kids. Everybody is, it's awful. And like finding new schools.

Right. I mean, that's the thing with the kids, you know, like the finding new schools, the sports, the all of that, the you know, I think I saw something recently when someone said, you know, it's hard because you might know five people and one person really might be doing OK. They, you know, weren't super sentimental about their house. They're grateful that they have money or whatever. And then another person, it was all about their house.

And that was their sanctuary, that was their memories, there was this. So it's like in speaking to someone just like in death or whatever, you have to be really kind of careful and because one person seems like they're okay, you know, and then it'll go in waves, you know, and so it's like a month, like people need to be around and do stuff for people six months from now. Maybe that's when they

need the fun to buy the furniture, you know what I mean? Like so we have to be there for the long haul for our... Yeah, and then you see the clips of the looters, you know, and you see the clips of people trying to light stuff on fire. I mean there's like, there's consequences to the way LA has been Then you see the clips of the looters, you know, and you see the clips of people trying to light stuff on fire. You know, like all the, I mean, there's like, there's consequences to the way LA has been run. And we're seeing it, you know, in stark, you know, high definition right now.

It's kind of, it's maddening. And also like their house is there, but they can't go back to it. The entire neighborhood's closed. And what's happening right now in a lot of those, I mean, this is a very wealthy part of the city, for those who haven't heard or don't know. A lot of people have safes and fire safes with, like, jewelry in there and diamonds.

And if they didn't get out in time and get their safes, so these looters are going into those areas. And fortunately, we got Nathan Hockman now and George Gascon is out, thank God. Our former DA in Los Angeles that was, I think, responsible for a lot of the lawlessness that we're seeing. But that might be a little political. But Hockman is, he's coming down much harder on them

and hopefully gonna offer a little deterrence. But now it's really, I went from being brokenhearted over it to kinda semi-furious. And I think a lot of us are entering that, you know, the five stages of death. And when they're able to move back into their house, their neighborhood is all burned down. Like there's no stores there.

There's no, you know, 90 year olds. I don't know if they'll ever go back, even though the house is still standing. So. It's gonna be a long haul, but since you brought up the prosecutor, I'm actually gonna get right into the Menendez brothers. You know, I've talked a lot about it.

I don't need to remind anybody of the Menendez brothers, but the latest one is the resentencing hearing for Lyle and Eric Menendez has been postponed due to disruptions caused by recent LA County fires. And originally it was scheduled for January 30th. But now the new dates are March 20th and 21st. What are your thoughts about

did you watch the series? Yes. Varied Murphy. OK, let's just hear what your thoughts are. Everything and what you and what your memories were back when it was happening to us in real life.

And people our age were able to watch court TV and everything. Okay, so what we saw on Netflix was, this is something that it's like, this is not a documentary documentary, especially the dramatized version, the Netflix though.

It's something that was written successfully to evoke emotion as any good movie would be, and it's based on real life. But look, I was a baby DA when that case was going down, and this was the case of the world back then, right? Everybody's paying attention to it. I knew David Cohn, who was the second prosecutor, pretty well, and he was a no nonsense, good, fair guy. And you know,

this what Gascon did was massively unpopular in the L.A.D.A.'s office among the rank and file, the actual people that prosecute cases for a living that have dedicated their life to public safety. Like they... What he did just a few months ago. Recommending that they be re-, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, so when we watch that. Do you think he did that as a Hail Mary to get reelected because he knew that there was such a sentiment in LA of like they've done enough time,

this evidence of molestation of the siblings, not the siblings, but the cousins having evidence and they weren't being able to be heard in the second trial and all of that. Again, I personally, as a taxpayer, if they got out, I am okay with that too. I feel like 35 years or whatever it's been, I don't think they're going to go and kill anyone else's parents. So for me, I feel like it's been done.

But there's a lot more legal stuff that I want you to of why that maybe shouldn't happen or what you're talking. Looking at it that way, objectively, it's like you're 100% right. Like it's an inter-family homicide, OK? And it is a, and they've done, what, 35 years, right? So when you just look at the numbers,

you ask, am I gonna lose any sleep if they get out? Answer's no. And I mean, probably same for me, kind of, maybe, but here's the real deal here, is that when you talk about victims of sexual abuse, and that's the emotion behind it, and that's Kim Kardashian going to prison and going, I think they were sexually abused.

Okay, so when you break it down legally, and I've done these cases where when you have murder for financial gain in the state of California, if any part of the motive is financial gain, you have satisfied all the elements of that. Okay, so you can be motivated by 90% revenge against somebody that sexually abused you, but if you know that you're gonna gain financially,

the idea goes back ancient Rome. 99% motivation to go to the gym means we sit on our couch, right? Like it means you don't go. 99% motivated to do something means it doesn't happen. 100% equals a whole. So if you're motivated 99% by being molested in the past or something else, and that 1% thing is,

and I'm also gonna inherit a whole bunch of money, and that's all it takes. That's really interesting. I don't think anyone has laid it out like that, and you know that because of the law. That's the law in the state of California. But you're right, and they definitely proved that even, like you said, even if it was proved that, you know, even like you said,

even if it was just that 1%, it's like, well, why shouldn't we have that money? Or, you know, even when they brought up the fact that the one older brother didn't like the brand new car that he was presented with, it was like, well, if you were being abused for all these years, and part of the deal was, if you don't tell, I'm gonna get you a Ferrari and now you got a Carrera or whatever, it was like, he could still be mad about that. But you're right, it involves money. And if you're following the law, then it involves money.

And I mean, we knew from what they did that they were absolutely, and there were so many things with the movie script that they were absolutely and there were so many things with the movie script that they wrote before about the two boys that kill their parents. The shotguns with fake IDs. Right. And another part of the way that it's been discussed by Kardashian by George Gascon is quote unquote the victims. Right. As if they're one block and the family as if they're a block. So legally when you break it down and you get an imperfect self-defense, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal, so after it goes through the state system,

it winds up in what are called habeas proceedings in front of the Ninth Circuit. They are no rubber stamp for the prosecution. And some of the cases, including dating game killer, which we're going to talk about, is they reverse that at one point. They view every conviction with a very skeptical eye. The Ninth Circuit, which has long been viewed as the most liberal district court in the federal court system in the United States,

wrote the most scathing opinion about the Menendez brothers and their defense, which is what is known as imperfect self-defense, which means actual but unreasonable, which means Eric and Lyle had to actually believe that Katie Menendez, not dad, Katie Menendez posed a threat of death or great bodily harm at the time they blew her face off with a shotgun. Okay, so when you take California law and you put it over, you overlay these facts,

you know, these guys started this- That was the instructions for the jury. Yeah, that guys started this. That was the instructions for the jury. That's yeah, that's California law. And I don't think there's anybody that believes that that night they felt it's either now or tomorrow we're going to die. And that whole thing of they took us on a boat and because they were going to throw our bodies over when they like rented a boat with like the captain and the guy that made the sandwiches.

And I was just like, I don't think anybody believed that, but did they believe that they felt there was no way getting out? The one brother, he's like, you're staying here. You can't live in the dorms at UCLA so that I could abuse you for the next four years. And I'm just saying, so I'm saying like, I get when you watch it all you're like this

was the most horrific family horrible person I definitely think that he was an abuser I think he probably abused some of the people from Menudo as well but you're right if those are your instructions as a jury you have to say no I don't think they actually thought they were going to be murdered that next day. And as a prosecutor you you look at that, and number one, Eric was a professional athlete at that point. And his mom weighed 120 pounds, so can I.

And so let's just say for the sake of argument that Jose Menendez did all that and it was all true, okay? You don't get to blow your mom's face off and that's what they did. These were Mossberg 12-gate shotguns and I've seen mercy. Do you think if she was away that weekend with her sister and they just did it to their dad,

do you think they could have either got a lesser sentence or be more likely to get out or never be convicted at all? Well, I think that what they would be able to do is they'd be able to say, this is motivated by something other than financial gain and be believed. Remember, everything- Well, because you're right,

because then Kitty would have gotten the money. But by killing her too- Why kill Mom? You're right. Why kill Mom? And I mean, there's so many problems with it. And everything you just said about, you know, going on the boat and all that,

the fundamental problem with everything that we're seeing right now is it comes from them. These are guys that lied to the 901 operator. They lied to the responding officers. They lied to the detectives. Then they have this whole thing with Dr. Oseal and who believed that Lyle was gonna murder him, which is the only reason why they were able to violate

the confidentiality. The confidentiality, that's the only reason why that was ruled admissible. And they never said anything about sexual abuse. They never said a word, so you're talking to a shrink. Like when we see our counselor about my Megyn Kelly problem, we will have confidentiality when we go to our couples

counseling on that. And everybody's been in therapy at one point or another, and you have confidentiality. And you talk about murdering your parents, and they told him the reason why they killed their mom was it was a mercy killing because the dad was cheating. There was nothing about sexual abuse until he got a legal defense. And Leslie Abramson-

So wait, hold on. I have a question. Because I remember thinking maybe when, so they, according to what I recall, they had to go see this therapist as part of this to get out of the fact that they were robbing homes in Calabasas. Eric was. Okay. And then he began talking about the case, and then Lyle began seeing him. And again, we're talking about that. And then also did the dad find this shady person

and also tell the boys, don't share any, you have to go do this so you don't go to juvenile hall. But in doing it, you better not say anything about what goes on in our house. So maybe they didn't share it prior. And the source of that was 100% the same guys who killed their mom. She survived somehow this volley of 12 gauge rounds.

And this has conclusively been proven. Lyle went out to the car, reloaded the shotgun, and put the shotgun against his mom's face, and blew off her mom's face. Having been to shotgun murders, I can tell you like, the visceral brutality of that act, you better have a pretty good friggin' reason to kill your mom, as in something that mom did.

And another thing is, remember, Lyle, after the first trial and it hung, Lyle picked up a court groupie who began visiting him in jail who tape recorded a series of conversations where he was bragging about how effectively he lied on the stand in the first trial. So not only the lie to the cops, and apparently they're therapists, if you believe their story, then they go to court. They got, Eric got caught in one of the biggest cross-examinations, the prosecutor's guy named Lester Kuriyama, who him in a flat out lie about the shotguns like demonstrable falsehood on the stand so he

lied to the jury he lied to the judge they lied to literally everybody and here we are and Kim Kardashian thinks they should get out like and here's my biggest problem with this when we start out we watch these shows and I dedicated my professional life to fighting and advocating on behalf of victims of sexual abuse it's been my since from my junior law clerk summer to my private practice where I represent victims pro bono in sex cases. It has been my entire professional career. When you, in the state of California, there's a huge movement here to eliminate LWOP or life without possibility Possibility of Parole, as a sentence.

The three groups that serve LWAP are rapists, child molesters, and murderers. The people serving life sentences in the state of California are overwhelmingly those three groups. Those crimes, yeah. And this has become the poster case essentially for the elimination of life without possibility of parole, which is what they were sentenced to, which is the sentence if you kill somebody for money, right? So if this goes through and if they are resentenced, I have a, I think that it's what's gonna happen next,

every single one of these people in California state prisons is gonna line up for their resentencing. And if this is successful, the people that will benefit most aren't even Lyle and Eric, because it won't end with them. It's called precedent.

Starry decisis, our entire legal system is based on what other judges do on similar cases or on cases with similar charges. And the people that are going to benefit most on this are child molesters and rapists. And if they start getting out, these people that are motivated by wanting to advocate on behalf of purported victims of sexual abuse will wind up creating more victims of sexual abuse because the last people we want out, trust me, people in the state of California who are in there doing LWOP are the worst human beings on the planet. And if we make it easier for them to get out, it's like, I mean, I love my state.

I grew up here like you did. It's like we just keep shooting ourselves in the public safety foot over and over and over again. And so we start out with empathy because we see a documentary or a purported documentary or a show on Netflix and we see the way it's portrayed. There's so much that is left out of that. Like we would need another,

we'd need two hours to go through what they did not include that were actual facts. Like Jose Menendez was talking about writing them out of the will. That happened beforehand. Right. It's well documented and that's what we call a clue. Like if they think they're about to lose all the money

regarding the timing of this. So when you talk to DAs in the LADA's office, the real pros, like a buddy of mine, Jeff Lewin, or John Lewin, his brother, who's very well, and he's a guy that prosecuted Robert Durst in the Jenks. Or my co-counsel on Rodney Alcala, Gina Saturano, who is her whole career's parallel to mine. It's all sexual abuse.

The idea that these two guys might get out because of a friggin' Netflix story and everybody watches this and they don't read the transcripts, none of your viewers probably, and this is not a criticism, but who reads the Ninth Circuit opinion? Unless you're a lawyer. I've read it and it is probably the most accurate takedown of these legal concepts with these guys who keep getting caught and lie after lie after lie. And now we believe them all of a sudden.

And it's like- Let me ask you this, because the fascination to me is that they're brothers with just a couple of years in between. And there's something beautiful about the fact that they got to finally be in the same prison. I remember feeling like, I know they're murderers, but, and then I also understood why they were separated back then because they, you know, my sister, who's a criminal defense attorney is like, you put two

sociopaths together and they're multiple times more dangerous. There's something. And so now you have, you know, murdering brothers who are also most likely abused in a fucked up home. And one has more power over the other, the older. Like, do you feel that Lyle is, is and was more dangerous than Eric? And do you think he at all, like if this was just, if Eric had been an only child and even suffered this abuse, would he have ever gotten to this place of killing his parents? Well, number one, just hypothetically.

Yeah, so we're talking about big brother, little brother. Yeah. So there's that dynamic that I think is very much in play here, but I don't know. Right. It certainly seemed that way to me. Eric is the one that is basically giving this tearful thing to Ozil.

Right. And then Lyle comes in, like Ozil thinks Lyle's gonna kill him. The counselor. He's the counselor. Right? And then so we learn about all this because of what he perceives as a danger. Then who's involved? And Lyle is the one that actually went hands-on and murdered his mother. Right? So and in the most gruesome way I can answer this enough. He's the one who came back. He's the one that loaded a Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun and blew his mom's face off, literally.

Somehow she'd survived the initialing. By the way, her brother is totally opposed to them being released, her brother Milton. So like when they talk about the family, the family. But then isn't his sister, isn't her sister also wanted them out? Like the 95, yeah, like the 95 year old sister. Right, and like on an emotional level,

we can sort of understand it. But at the same time, he's also entitled to, Like the 95- Wanted them out. She wants them out. Yeah. Right. And like on an emotional level, we can sort of understand it. Yeah. But at the same time, he's also entitled to, he's considered a victim and he's entitled under California Constitution, it's Article 1, Section 28 of the California Constitution, was known as finality and sentencing because he is a victim of violent crime, the brother. So it's like, so, and also going back to Gascon, there's two legal pathways here. One is just a motion to rescind.

The other is what's known as a habeas proceeding, where it's like, hey, we got new evidence, which is the letter and this thing from this Menudo guy. The letter from his cousin that, that it looks like the letter was written by Eric to the cousin a couple years before, and it was stating the abuse. It was supposedly about six months before.

Okay. It's undated. It's vague. He comes in, you can't understand how much I hate him. It's vague. There is no date. That cousin has now died. But here's my problem with the letter.

But also someone could argue that if this was sent six months prior that the pre-planning of the murder, because they're going to be cut out of the will, we're dropping seeds that maybe we were abused. If that is the, you know, you could argue that too. Every murder that I have done where it's a murder for financial gain, there's fake evidence put in front of it. Not saying that necessarily is, but here's another problem that I've got with that is that this was the biggest trial in the world.

This was the case right back then. And he has one of the best defense lawyers and they've got virtually unlimited funding for their defense because the family is wealthy. Did Eric forget he wrote the letter? They have subpoena power. They've got the cousin who actually testified in the first trial. So you're saying why didn't Eric bring it up back then? How come we didn't see it then? Yeah. The holidays may be over, but it's never too late to give yourself what you really want. Treat yourself to the iRestore Elite

and get hair regrowth solution you actually deserves. Now, this is not a gadget. It's a powerful FDA cleared laser cap designed to fight thinning hair and hair loss with clinically proven results. With 282 lasers and LEDs delivering light therapy to your scalp, it's like a spa date for your follicles. I have a girlfriend who is really suffering with hair loss. She absolutely loves it. I just talked to

her today. She's like, it feels kind of nice. I put it on my head. I watch TV and she's really noticed a difference. Also, I know you want a radiant glow on your skin. Well, iRestore also has the best LED mask. The Illumina face mask is a fabulous LED face mask like no other because they did a clinical study and 90% of people saw reduction in wrinkles, redness, pore size. The red light therapy is not just a fad, it really does work. Now is the perfect time to treat yourself. For a limited time only, our Juicy Scoop listeners get $625 off their iRestore Elite. When you use the code JUICYSCOOP at iRestorelaser.com, that's $625 off your iRestore Elite at

iRestorelaser.com. With promo code JUICYSCOBE. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Hair loss is frustrating. You don't have to fight it alone. Thanks to iRestore. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life.

You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. Hey, everybody. My name is Bob the Drag Queen. And I'm on Xchange. And we are the hosts of Sibling Rivalry.

This is a podcast where two best friends gab, talk, smack, and have a lot of fun with our Black queer selves. Yeah, for sure. You know, we are family. So we talk about everything, honey, from why we don't like hugs, to Black Lives Matter, to interracial dating, to other things, right, Bob? Yes, and it gets messy, and we are not afraid to be wrong.

So please, join us over here at Silvergrivery, available anywhere you get your podcasts. You can listen and subscribe for free. For free, honey. And why do you think that? Why would that? Well, I've got a friend in the DA's office who will remain nameless who is convinced that the letter is complete BS.

It's fake. It's fake. It came out. It was delivered by a family member who has always advocated for their release. And who knows? And that's what's known as foundation. Somebody could say I found it in my son or my cousin's stuff as I was going through it after he died.

That's probably enough foundation to get it in. But that doesn't, like, there's no, their allegations of sexual abuse were never really corroborated by anybody except for them and each other, and that's it. And when you, I did sex crimes for four years before I went into homicide, exclusively. Okay, wait, finish your thought

but then I wanna ask you a question about that, go ahead. Yeah, so I mean, look, if you've got, if this is the smoking gun that everybody wants it to be now, right, if this is Gascon who sat on the habeas petition for 18 months, by the way, like that sat on his desk for a year and a half. So there's a lot of people in that office who think,

yes, he waited until the last minute because he was about to lose an election by 30 points. So he wanted to, this was a Hail Mary. People think that. I don't know what he's thinking on that, but when it comes to that letter, like if it is that important, Eric wrote it. Eric knew about it. He's got one of the finest defense lawyers. He's got a cooperative person who received it. Why are we hearing about it 35 years later? Why didn't we know about it then if it's so important? If that was the smoking gun that corroborated the sexual abuse, and it is vague. He doesn't say my dad is molesting me. It says he keeps coming in

here. You have no idea how bad it is. Could be interpreted that way. Maybe that's exactly what was happening. But I'll tell you who isn't in the letter. My mom is sexually abusing me. Or my mom is holding me down as my dad is doing it. Or my mom has, like, there's nothing about mom in there at all. And if you kill one person for financial gain,

if you give them a freebie murder on dad, you cannot kill your mom if financial gain is the motive. If it's 10%, 20%, 1%, if you kill your mom if financial gain is the motive. If it's 10%, 20%, 1%, if you kill your mom with a Mossberg shotgun, and one of the very first things they did after, as they began this exorbitant spending spree with Porsches and Rolexes and 24 hour security, and you know, is they got a locksmith to get into the safe,

because based on the prosecution, to get into the will because they thought he might have actually written him out of the will, and they wanted to get that before anybody else did. That is totally consistent with the idea that they murdered their dad before he had a chance to do it because there was evidence of that

that was presented multiple times. I wish David Cohn was alive today to come in and address this because that guy... Who was that, the prosecutor? He was the prosecutor in the second trial, the one that actually convicted them. And, because that... I mean, I knew him. I had cases with him. That guy was the real deal.

He's everything that you would want as far as a professional prosecutor who's fair and listens and considers all the evidence. Like, that was that guy. And he passed away seven or eight years ago now. And I just wish he was here to address it. Well, I will, one thing, and then I wanna ask you this, that's quite about it. I will say Lyle cheated on his first wife

by having other people came in, Anna Menendez. Then he had another wife for like 25 years and it's just been revealed that he has been cheating on her with this other young, I think she's German, she's blonde, she's in her 20s, she's been visiting him, they have photos together, so now they're going through divorce. Do you imagine being the woman that visited him for like 30 years and you're like talking to your sister-in-law Who's also married to Eric for 30 years being like we're gonna get them out for Christmas only to find out that he is Seeing like a blonde 24 year old. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know cheaters don't mean murderers, but

No, no, come on. Not a great character this is like This is not these aren't nice guys you know they're like they killed their friggin mom guys like have we forgotten? Katie Menendez was crawling away they blew Lyle Menendez blew his mom's face off with a shotgun. It's like that visual alone you like you better have something better than it was a mercy killing because our dad was cheating on her.

Like you can't, you know, so people see that, they see the cute kids, these cute brothers and like we think victims of sexual abuse and you know, look, I did four years in sexual assault. Let me ask you this as a prosecutor of it. Have you ever in your career been prosecuting a case and there is something that you're like, oh fuck, the victim is lying, maybe it didn't happen. And how do you handle that?

So not in the middle of trial, but absolutely. Especially in murders, because when you catch the guy, typically you catch the guy pretty quickly or the woman, you catch him pretty quickly and then the investigation really begins. That's when you send in the computers. Like I had one, I had a case out of Newport, very, very wealthy family.

And this guy was, they were having a divorce and there's so much cash. They're Newport Coast, they're neighbors of Kobe Bryant. And this guy, I filed this special search because it really looked like they were arguing about money, that that was a part of it. And it only has to be, again, it only has to be a part of the motive.

And he strangled his wife in the bathtub and he wound up dumping her body in San Diego. This crazy case. The rich guy, the rich husband. Super rich guy. And we wind up, and that's when, I would go to the autopsies. I remember standing, watching this autopsy,

and she'd been, it was, you know, all the classic signs of strangulation. He came up with a story about a painter at the house murdering her and putting her in a car. It was absolutely preposterous. But, so I charged him with that, and he can't get out, because it's a Nobel hold on a special circuit of murder for a financial gain.

And then we get the computers back and turns out what this guy was doing, frigging weenie that he is, he was having sex with hookers, I'm sorry, sex workers, I believe is the correct term, sex workers without a condom and bringing home STDs for his mom. You mean for his wife? I mean, for his wife, for the mom of these kids, because they had three boys.

Oh, okay. So, yeah, he's infecting his wife. Okay. That's what they were arguing about. And as the investigation goes on, turns out her family's got a ton of money. His family's got a ton of money. It was 0% about money. Now I've got a very wealthy guy, and I have an ethical obligation to answer the question,

you must dismiss it or strike that enhancement immediately. You do not stopgo. As soon as you entertain a subjective doubt as to somebody's guilt or the efficacy of any sort of charge or enhancement, your ethical obligation is to immediately dismiss that. A lot of people don't know that. To dismiss that it was not, so then you have to say this was not money motivated. Yep. This was like truly a crime of people don't know that. To dismiss that it was not, so then you have to say this was not money motivated. Yep. This was like truly a crime of passion. I had to strike the enhancement which allowed that guy to make bail which sucked because

then he fled to Mexico. He's on the lam and he killed somebody in Mexico. Who like some other girl? He was driving super aggressively. He had two Mexican sisters that were in his car that came from a nice family, like nice people. He killed one, he crashed, and he killed one and permanently disabled the other.

In the car accident. In the car accident. Absolutely horrific. And he was... So this guy was just... Is that how then you guys found him? From the car accident? We had great work from the U.S. Marshal's office Absolutely horrific. And he was, so this guy was just- Is that how then you guys found him? From the car accident? We had great work from the US Marshals Office and a bunch of like actual heroes behind the scenes.

And Newport Peach, a guy named Court Depwig, who was head of the homicide unit down there, who, detective sergeant, like studs. So what happened to him? They brought him back, finally prosecuted him up here in, well, in Orange County. And he was convicted of murder and he got a life sentence. He'll get a parole hearing too soon,

because that's, it turns out being a second degree murder, but like, there's no, like, that guy should never get out. You know, he shouldn't get out, he, you know, like, but I put ahead a dump it. It was second degree because it wasn't planned. It was an argument that went to murder. It wasn't, I'm coming home tonight, she's here, I bought the guns three days ago.

Right, right. It was nowhere near as bad as, I know another one with a guy who, he was a finance manager at a car dealership. He had this big history of domestic violence. And he called 911, she already had rigor, his fiance, beautiful young woman. And rigor mortis, so she'd been dead for a while. She'd clearly been choked. She's got petechal hemorrhaging in her eyes, which are like all the classic signs. She's got the finger marks on her neck, the whole deal.

And cause of death was asphyxia. So that looks like he choked her. He's been arrested multiple times for doing that to previous wives, girlfriends, whatever. And then three weeks, four weeks later, I get the tox results, and it turns out they had a huge fight. He was a choker.

He choked her out, and she went in and took about 150 sleeping pills. So when we get that back, it's like, I've got a huge causation problem. And even though, like, on a moral level, he basically killed a British she, suicide, so that's another one I had to dismiss right away. So yes.

So then he could only get, was he convicted of anything? Yes, oh yeah, no, no. Just abuse, but not murder. I then gave that to a guy who wanted, actually the guy was so good, he wanted to becoming my boss in homicide. His name was Berhiem Baitai.

But you've never had like a female try to say I was sexually assaulted by somebody and you are totally convinced. And then as you do the interviews and stuff, you're like, you know what, there isn't enough here. Or even in your brain, you're like, this girl's lying. Has that ever happened? Yeah, we have tons of those.

Tons, but we don't file those. Like when you look at those, when it's sexual assault, you're just reviewing sex cases all the time. So when you have one of those, I'll tell you the common one of this is sad, in custody disputes, when you got a little girl or a little boy

and the complaint comes and you look, and you can almost, it's almost like a script. It's like, custody dispute, okay. Mom reported, no corroboration. You see that, you actually see that a lot. Or saying that the dad that she's divorcing, she believes is sexually assaulting her or a child. Yes, you see a lot of that.

And then she kinda coaches the child and then. Right, and the good detective spot those a mile away. There was a guy named. That I think has to be like the cruelest thing that someone can do. Well, people go crazy when they're, in divorces people can go crazy. Right, it's the ultimate.

And when they're fighting over their kids, there is no limit of what they'll do, there's no lie they won't tell. Right. You know, and sometimes it turns out to be absolutely true. Right, of course. But those who do falsely import are totally unfair to the people

that are actually suffering abuse like that. Because it comes in with such skepticism when it comes in with five fake ones and there's a real one in there. So you try very hard to figure those out before you file. And it's critically important to do that. It's one of the hardest parts of the job

or the opposite when you have somebody that you absolutely's one of the hardest parts of the job, or the opposite, when you have somebody that you absolutely believe was being abused, especially with little kids, and you just don't have any points of corroboration, and you believe the kid, and California law says you can proceed on those, but the only thing worse than some poor kid getting molested is some poor kid getting rejected

by a jury after they come in and testify. So those are refusing the ones that you can't corroborate. It's emotionally taxing, but it's still, it's a critical part of the job because at the end of the day, people are presumed innocent and it's a real thing. And you know, you gotta be, you have to be, you need smart detectives, smart prosecutors,

smart judges, and ultimately a good jury, you know? And following California law, they get, they make the right call about 99% of the time, you know, in those. The jury will come to the right decision when the case gets out far, but it, you know, but you gotta be very careful as a DA on any case. Okay, so now let's talk about a case

that you did prosecute back in 2019 about a man who was, was he left for dead? Why don't you tell the story? This is your story, this is your case. And I was reading a little bit on it because I knew you were gonna tell me about it. And I'm like, I have so many questions, so let's just tell the juicy skipper.

Yeah, this is a wild one. So this is, it went up in my last trial as a DA. So this is, I got a three-part Hulu docu-series coming out in February. Oh, okay. Yeah. And it is a, this is the Hussein Nayyari case. So this is a guy who is, California, when we passed that medical marijuana thing back

in the 90s, right, now it's just- I don't think it was in the 90s. Oh, the medical was 90s and then around like 2008, then it's like, just legal. Yeah, right, okay. So here's the trick that nobody knows. That F of the FDIC that we see on the front of every bank we go to stands for federal, okay?

So marijuana, cultivation, sales, use, all that is straight up legal. It's not just decriminalized, it's legal in the state of California. However, it's still a federal crime. So what that means is the banks cannot do business with marijuana dispensaries or marijuana shops. So what that means is-

A lot of cash. There's a lot of cash. And there's cash, there's a big pile of cash waiting in those businesses for the successful businesses at the end of every work day, there's a pile of money. And the people in the marijuana world, it's like the Wild West right now. And there haven't been, still.

And there haven't been a lot of really good solutions to this. And they're, and look, there's one of the biggest investing groups in marijuana businesses, and marijuana in the state of California, a lot of detectives believe are Mexican drug cartels. So this is not, it is a very complex, dynamic thing to this day.

But the bad guys, so marijuana for decades was just ruled by criminals, like that whole world. To grow it, you're a criminal, to sell it, you're a criminal, even to use it for a long time, you're committing crimes. So when they made it legal, a lot of legitimate business people saw the opportunity there and they came in with doing these hydroponic grows. And what it did is it drove the margins down

and you get business people that come in that are like honoring contracts and paying people a fair amount and like shocking, like they're actually engaging in fair business practices because they're business people and for the criminal element their margins used to be huge for the mayor and then they get smaller and smaller and smaller and They know who who's doing well, right? and you know like

The the marijuana world there are unicorn riding hippies who grow it and sell it and that's always been sort of part of it but The the truth is a lot of the people in that business, especially before it went legal, were hardened, gnarly criminals who committed murders and would rip each other off. And I mean, one of the most vicious murders I had was a guy who got murdered in Irvine

over a $7,000 marijuana debt. And they killed him with a meat cleaver and drove him up to freaking humble and buried him in a place called Stinky Beach. I mean, it's just awful. 22 years old, a family who loved him. So let's get into this one. This guy had his own dispensary.

He has his own dispensary, and he's very successful because he's one of those business guys. Didn't even use marijuana himself. But he's like, he's running a business, and it's successful. He gets kidnapped in the middle of a business, and it's successful. He gets kidnapped in the middle of the night,

and these guys pop out of nowhere in his apartment, and he lives in Newport, and he's sharing this town home with another guy whose girlfriend was over. So they both wind up getting kidnapped, but they tie her up, they throw her in a van, but with him, they wake him up by beating him with a 12-gauge shotgun. Okay, so in a van, but with him, they wake him up by beating him

with a 12 gauge shotgun. Okay, so in the face with the barrel, and they tie him up, they take him down out of the stairs, face down by the feet, so his face bumps on every stair, like immediately ultra violent, super heavy, and they throw him in this van, and they torture him all the way out into the desert and it like they had a blowtorch on them they've got like and

they get out there and the whole time they're demanding the million bucks wherever that comes from and they he keeps telling them the money's in the safe in the business and they drive them out into the middle of Mojave Desert in the middle of nowhere. What were they hoping that he would say, though? Like, I guess I don't get. They ultimately, we learned, they thought that he had buried money in the desert.

Did some other criminal tell them that? How did they get that idea? Eventually, we learned that the mastermind in this had put trackers on his car, and he'd gone out into the desert on a meaningless real estate trip with some friend of his and they drove around for a while in this area. And this guy who puts together this super elaborate plan

over months, gets it in his head, he must be burying money in the desert. So they drive them to those GPS coordinates because he had those. And that's where they believe the money was. There's so many problems with the conclusion, but it's that's where they believe the money was. There's so many problems with the conclusion, but it's, that's what they believed. So it's three men in this van.

He's been tortured the entire way out, and he's like, for the last time, the money's in the safe. Let's go there. I'll give you every penny of it. And they say, fuck you, and they cut off his penis. While he's alive. While he's alive. And does he live? And he lives.

And they take it with them, which is another thing. The penis? They don't just cut it off. So there's no way it can be attached or anything. There is, and you know what's funny? I mean, this is, every woman that I've talked to about this case,

it's like, isn't there something they can do? And it's, the- Well, just cause, forget about sex,, has to say, it's like, can't they, isn't there something they can do? And it's, the- Well, just cause, forget about sex, but like you pee, you know? Like, that just means you're gonna be, have some attachment down there for the rest of your life. It's like losing an eye.

Yeah. He's the poor guy that's gonna have no nerves, and they cut it off at the base. It's absolutely horrific. But they, so basically what happens is, they wind up in the desert, they cut it off, they drive off into the night, he is in shock, and the girlfriend who wasn't supposed to be

So they leave him in the desert though? They leave him in the middle of the desert, bound. Okay. Tied up, bound, there's almost no way that this guy should have lived. Right. Okay, so the girlfriend of his roommate, she manages to, they throw a knife in the bushes,

the knife they used. She gets to the knife, cuts the bindings off of her feet, can't get the bindings off her hands, which are behind the back, tries to cut his bindings off, winds up severely cutting his palm. Her own boyfriend. No, no, her boyfriend, so her boyfriend was out of town. This is the victim, the male victim's roommate's girlfriend.

Right, but he's in the desert, so what are you talking about? Who's the guy she's trying to cut? Sorry, so they kidnapped them together. Oh, she was in the desert too. She was thrown in the van. I thought she was, oh sorry, sorry. Okay, continue. So they drive them both out there,

but they took her so that she wouldn't be able to call the police. She wasn't a part of their plan, she wasn't even supposed to be in the house. So they take her as an also add-on. They leave him with middle of nowhere, middle of the night, bleeding, totally exposed, and he has been tortured.

Also, they poured bleach all over him before they drove away, which is forensically significant because bleach destroys DNA. So this is something that immediately stands out to detectives as something that was thought out. But she manages to get the bindings cut off of her feet. She tries to free him. She can't. She gets the blindfold up just enough that she can see. And off in the distance she sees lights and begins running barefoot through the open friggin'

Mojave Desert. And you can't make this up, the very first car she sees is an off-duty sheriff's deputy, Deputy Williams, who's on his way to work in his patrol car. And he sees this woman in her pajamas running, bound, like duct tape and stuff all over her head, bound with zip ties behind her back running across the highway. And she, he stops and this guy was so good, he takes photos right away. So this whole thing is documented with photos

and then she is able to lead him back to our poor victim. And they immediately do a grid search and like they take him to the hospital but the everybody that they're responding cops, they do what's called a grid search where they're looking literally through every inch of the area and they realize that these guys took it with them.

So, and this is cool. They do a canvas and we have nothing. He has no idea who would do this to him, our poor victim. And this is like unbelievably cruel, right? And they do a canvas around the apartment where the kidnapping happened. And canvas is basically, they just knock on the doors of neighbors.

And you almost never get anything out of canvas. It's like a due diligence to say that you did it, that you did everything you could. And people wanna help. So it's like, yeah, I heard somebody screaming down the street, but it might've been my neighbor's loud wife, or I did hear a noise, but it could've been raccoons in the trash can again.

Like, what you get is you get a bunch of red herrings that suck up a lot of resources and you almost never get anything good and they talked to a woman who's one of the neighbors in the across the alley behind the house and she's like they knock on the door and she's like you know I did see something weird I saw three boys in yellow hard hats but the hard hats looked too clean to be real and I saw him put a ladder against that house, but I didn't see two of them come out.

And they're like, you know, that's like potentially home run of home runs. And they're like, please tell us you can describe the car they're using. And she's like, well, I wrote down the license plate, will that help? And these, can I swear? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

These dipshits, these dipshits had a rented van and they went to all of these elaborate lengths to hide their identity and to put this plan together that went on for months. There's this planning and on this one day, one of these guys was a mastermind, really, really smart guy, Hussein Nair, who put the whole thing together.

The rest of them were basically idiots, and one of these idiots used his own truck. So with his license plate, we show up at his house, the first thing the cops smell is bleach. And then we start finding zip ties that match, and they find a blue nitrile glove underneath his car seat, and we send everything into the crime lab and we get, so we arrest him.

Did you find the penis? No, never. So they took it with them. Which is like, which full circle I did eventually get to ask this guy about, but this is a, I almost don't wanna blow the ending here, but what happens is, so we arrest the burnout idiot that drove his own truck, and we're prosecuting him.

The mastermind has fled back to Iran, where he's originally from. He grew up here, he's an American guy, he was in the Marines for about a minute before he went AWOL, but he's an American kid, but he's got Iranian citizenship. So he, and he's got family back there, so he flees back to Iran and

and he's gotten away. So the conventional move on that is you you issue a warrant and you hope one day he's dumb enough to come back to the United States. But we wanted to catch him because it was one of the cruelest cases I saw in 26 years as a prosecutor. So his wife was a law student and their family hired a guy named Lou Rosenblum, who was my mentor. He brought me into homicide. He's one of the best lawyers I've ever known. He's one of the best humans and Lou wants to save her because she's up to her eyeballs on this thing too. And Lou begins plotting and he was the head of the Homicide Unit. He's a hunter. He loves to catch the bad guy. And so here, Lou has this young woman who was in this horrifically abusive relationship

with this guy. Her family didn't even know they were married. And she comes from a very good family, out of Fresno. And he can save her from incredible legal jeopardy because she was looking at potentially life in prison. Why would she? Because she was on the periphery of this conspiracy. There's a thing you learn in law school

called wagon wheel conspiracies, where if you do anything to aid a better facilitate. Is that what they mean with like, let's circle the wagons? Well, kind of, yeah. So in the middle, you can have one person that's running the whole thing. Every wagon wheel, even though the wagon, I'm sorry, even every spoke of the wagon wheel,

even though the spokes might not even know the other spokes exist, if you're helping the hub in any way, you're on the hook. And it's an ancient legal concept, it's not unique to California. So basically, conspiracy law, if you help somebody knowingly in any way in a criminal enterprise, even if you don't know the full scope of the conspiracy,

you don't know who the other conspirators are, if you do anything to assist, you face legal jeopardy for that. And they, you know, and she, I've never believed that she was a full-blown planner in this. And the more we learned about the abusive nature of the relationship, the more sympathy I had for her, my co-counsel, Heather Brown, the detective.

And so basically she's like, she, there was a high speed chase involving this car that was in her name, like a week before the kidnapping. And it was still an impound and she went to go get it. And that had a bunch of this surveillance equipment in it. And she signed this thing indicating it was her car, she knew who's driving it, you know, and she reported it to Snowden,

but she faced great legal jeopardy and she was a life worth saving. And the job of a prosecutor really is to do justice, right? So if you got somebody that doesn't deserve the full weight of the law to land on them, you have to show discretion in that. You have to recognize points of mitigation. And so her husband's a psycho who has been abusing her

for years, and we've got corroborating domestic violence call-outs to their house. And she is clearly not the heavy in this. But he's gotten away. So Lucy's an opportunity, and it's like maybe we can save her life and catch the bad guys. So we wind up enlisting her to lure him out of Iran. It took us almost a year.

I've heard it just be like, I'm so in love with you and I miss you. All of that, we sent her to her uncle's funeral and it's an incredible story. Never gotten to do anything this cool probably my whole time as a prosecutor. And then we wind up buying a ticket for her post-bar trip that she'd been talking about

taking with his sister, who didn't know we were doing any of this. Like she passed the bar? Passed the bar. So she was a lawyer too? She was in law school when all this went down. Oh my God. And then we went to bat for her with the state bar

because she was under investigation. Oh. We really, and Lou, she owes a debt of gratitude to Lou Rosenblum that I don't think she will ever fully appreciate or repay because that guy saved her life. Because she was on the short bus to stay prison. Because this is such a horrific crime. Everybody was going down in one way or another,

but the main guy had gotten away. And Iran is never gonna act right back to the United States. So by the time we were able to identify him He was going down in one way or another, but the main guy had gotten away. Iran is never going to act right back to the United States. So by the time we were able to identify him, based on the DNA from the club, which took weeks, he was in Iran within days. I have a question. There are certain countries that people go to because even if you are like, this person's up for murder, they're like, we don't care.

We don't cooperate. We don't cooperate. We don't send them back. Why? What are those countries? Are there a handful of them or are there like 50 of them? And why do some countries, why do they want the potential murder? Like I would be like, what? Here you go.

It's a great question. And look, there are there are countries that just to kind of stick their thumb in the eye of the US. Okay. Like Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, probably even I mean, maybe I'm sure Russia now there. So there are countries that are that are basically a diplomatic war with the United States. Okay, there are there are geopolitical adversaries, enemies, whatever. So they'll keep they won't extradite anybody. And so you have all those dissonance that went to Cuba in the 60s, like the LA radical terrorists

that were blowing stuff up. But he was able to go to Iran, and they wouldn't just blanket accept like a child blaster who fled. But counterintuitively, so part of this was, as we put this whole plan together, we're communicating with the FBI in various places and proving that there's at least one person

with a sense of humor in the FBI, which I've doubted many times. They call themselves Task Force Welcome Home. So the people that are out there to repatriate violent criminals back to the United States, they call themselves the Welcome Home Unit, which is funny and kind of cool. But so they were like, so this guy,

I got a whole education on it. Like, so we were going to fly him out of Iran to Spain, which is where they'd been talking about this. And we want to route him someplace that we can throw a net on him and catch him. Right. So literal net. Well, no, and even a, no, a cooler net,

like this one involved police dogs and big cops with mustaches. Yeah. So he's like, look, and counterintuitively here, you don't want the worst countries to extradite back to the United States, the UK. The UK is a pain in the ass,

and they think that we're savages, and our legal system, even though it's based on common law, it is, and they have, and that's where your question released, I don't know why the UK is in love with all of our child molesters, but there are so many in the UK right now living freely that have escaped the United States that are dragged down in extradition proceedings. Wow, I didn't know Wow. France is bad. Spain is bad. Like, like, yeah, I mean, there was a guy who murdered Einhorn, who was a radical in the 60s, who murdered his girlfriend.

And he was like an academic, like Vietnam War protester guy. And he sat in France for decades before we finally got to our friends. Where did Roman Polanski end up? France. Yes. Yes. So there are all these countries that will. There's countries that just won't extradite. And then there's others that are massive pains in the ass. And it's scary for the people that

live in France and England to have like, watch them. Well, not only that, it's a huge slap in the face to the victims of violence. Yeah. Wow. And so anyway, so we get them in the Czech Republic. Because all the former Soviet bloc countries apparently love the US and trust our judicial system, for fairness. So we get them in the Czech Republic because all the former Soviet bloc countries apparently love the U.S. and trust our judicial system for fairness. So we get him in the Czech Republic.

He winds up spending a year in solitary confinement in a prison built by the Nazis during World War II. And then we extradite him. We get him back. Everything is good. Full steam ahead. We've already prosecuted Hanley. We got everybody in the conspiracy. So you already had the two other guys. We got everybody involved in this. And we've got, and they're in various stages of like, you know, we worked some immunity deals with some, and others are doing less time because they're more powerful.

And this guy of the three, he was there hurting him too, or was he just the mastermind? We've always believed he was the movement shaker. He was the mastermind of the whole thing. And we proved he was the mastermind? We've always believed he was the, he was the movement shaker, he was the mastermind of the whole thing and we proved he was the mastermind of the whole thing. But you don't know if he was there that night in torturing him? No, I know that he is,

one of the interviews we did of one of his co-conspirators, the co-conspirator flat out said, he's the one that cut off the penis. Oh, so he was there. Yeah, no, we have information. We didn't introduce that into evidence, but that is as a matter of empirical truth here, whoever is ever watching this, like I've got that tape, like one of the codefendants pointed

his finger at him. And when you look at the background of all these guys, this guy was, he was a really smart guy and he was in the marijuana world and he just wasn't making it with the margins and all of that stuff. And he was also involved in a homicide, a voluntary or involuntary manslaughter of a friend of his that he did in a roll over car accident and killed him. Accidentally, but like driving recklessly.

So we get him back in Orange County jail, all is well. Takes us probably two years later. And I get a call from the sheriff's department that they had a count, which is when they count the prisoners, and he was classified as what's known as a white bander, which is like DUI guys or misdemeanor domestic violence guys. Somehow this manipulative mother effer convinced them that he was not a risk. This is a guy who's fled to Iran, takes us like over a year to catch this guy, and

he has escaped from the Orange County Jail and when he escaped he left my photo on his bunk. He had a photo of me and my co-counsel Heather Brown on his bunk and he had tunneled out like literally escaped from Alcatraz through a vent in this dorm with 50 other prisoners. Took them months. They got hacksaws. They hacksawed through a bunch of bars. Just like that movie where they would, yeah,

enjoy a little every night. Just like the movie. It's like Shawshank Redemption meets Escape from Alcatraz only way less sympathetic characters and he escaped with two other guys that were charged with murder and they repelled off the roof, got a cab driver, went up and I am convinced this guy, it was like 18 hours

between the time he was actually out and the time they missed him in the first count. It was like, because these are the least secure prisoners. Like, if you're a white bander, you're a misdemeanor basically. And then it goes yellow, orange, red, and then blue. All the way up through, like blue is medical, but red bander's the most dangerous.

Like, this guy should have been a friggin red bander the second he walked into the end but they gave him a white van designation because he's so you know he's so manipulative or do you want to say it make everybody know hopefully there's a lot more in the book but yeah no we get him and then he's captured a week later all he needed to do was head south. Iran has an embassy in Tijuana. And they don't check IDs when you go south. You can drive across the border.

All he needed to do was go south, and instead they went north. And we went and recaptured all the guys. They were in San Francisco. They were busted in a van in Golden Gate Park smoking weed. And it's like, Lou kept calling it 95% genius, 5% pure dipshitter. It's like all the planning,

and then he figures the money's in the desert because the GPS corners that are one day. And let's just smoke a joint and say I'm friend. They won't look there. Like all he has to do is go south, show up to the American. And like, I was convinced he was, he should have escaped. The guy we outsmarted, outsmarted us.

So anyway we wound up on the stand in my last trial and I'm cross-examining him and that was my final question was we're all wondering man, why not just leave it there so the poor guy at least has a chance to reattach it? Why not, and he, and it's called flashing where you get the guy accused of the violent crime to get super angry and he freaking threatened me from the stand in between a superior court judge

and the jury that's gonna decide his fate. And he's like, you, you are done. And he knew, he knew what we had done. We turned his wife against him. We like, we, and that itself was just the process. Like that, I'd never heard of anything like that. And we, but we did it and we caught we caught this guy, and he hated me. He personalized a lot of it.

And so he is just like, he's like, you, you are done. I'm like, I'm done? What do you mean I'm done? He's like, you, personally, you're done. Super menacing, which is what you want, when you're trying to draw it out. And then to the jury, it's like, ladies and gentlemen, think about this.

He's threatening me. I'm a senior deputy district attorney in a superior court, literally in between a superior court judge and you, and we're surrounded by armed police officers and bailiffs. Imagine what that guy is like in the back of a van when he's not getting the million bucks that he's fantasized he's about to get. Like, is that the type of guy who would cut off a penis?

When he, you know, like, and it's, I mean, the trial itself was so wild and he was convicted and he's been sentenced to life without possibility in California state prison and hopefully he will never get out. Wow. Yeah. Well that, so that's on Hulu this month, but you can also read about it in the book. Listen, tell everybody where they can get the book and what else you have going on.

The Hulu thing you don't know, it's in February. It's coming up. You don't know the date? It's coming out in February, yeah. I think it comes out on the seventh. I don't think they've made a final determination, but it's coming out soon. Great, we will be watching.

Yeah, so the book is available on Amazon. Barnes and Noble, I just found this is cool. They've run out of copies in their warehouses. Wow. So that's pretty good to hear. The Audible also, I narrated it myself. I don't get it because I hate the sound of my own voice, but that's done really well.

People seem to really like the Audible, that you can download that on Audible on Amazon. And then one of the chapters, one last final thing, is on my dating game killer case. Anna Kendrick has a movie right now. Yes, I have it right here. Go ahead. She has a movie.

I watched it, it was great. Called Woman of the Hour, and she brought me in as a consultant. Danny Lovato is the actor in that. I had to deal with Alcala in court every day because he represented himself. And that actor did such a phenomenal job. Oh really?

Absolutely fantastic. And they brought me in. For anybody who's wondering, Anna Kendrick is lovely. I love dealing with her. She was absolutely fantastic. That's nice to hear. And it was such a good experience overall. They let me come to the set.

Meanwhile, she had a little bit of a, there's been some weird videos of her and Blake. Oh, I did not know that. Because they did a show called The Simple Favor, which is a great movie too. But it's interesting to hear, like Blake does not have a good reputation about people who've worked with her on set,

but Anna does, so that's sort of. Anna was fantastic. And very quick quick funny story. She invites me to the premiere. Yeah. So I get, I get, I almost, I was gonna do an interview. They asked me to do an interview for Entertainment Tonight or one of those, one of the dailies

and they wouldn't let me on the red carpet. The bouncer wouldn't let me on because I'm by myself and apparently look like I did not belong. Finally talked my way around it out but then I went up sitting in between people wouldn't let me on because I'm by myself and apparently look like I did not belong. Finally talked my way around it out, but then I went up sitting in between people that turned out to be Anna Kendrick's agent on one side of me and her manager on the other.

And the manager turns to me and she has no idea who I am. And she's like, so, and I'm with like the heavyweights, right, and she goes, so who are you again? And I'm like, I was the prosecutor on the case. And she's like, oh, oh. And then that's it. And then movie ends, she's on her feet and out. And then so I go, they had the after party.

And this is the day, it's a premiere. This is super fun for me. I'm by myself. Yeah, of course, fun for anyone, yeah. And I go in and then Anna shows up. And I got to work with her a bunch. And really kind of got to be friends, you know? Like, and I got to work with her a bunch, and really kinda got to be friends. And we kinda hit it off,

and she's smart as hell, funny as can be, and I really kinda felt like I made a new friend. So she comes in, she's like, take me to the bar and let's get a drink. And I go in, and then she starts introducing me to people, and I've got this semi-circle around, and they're like, so what was he really like? And I'm talking about dealing with alcohol.

And this woman, the manager comes back over and she's like, wait, who are you again? And I'm like, I told you I was the prosecutor in the case. She goes, I thought you were like a prosecutor from some scene that we cut because you didn't make the movie. I thought you finangled your way in as like some cheeseball actor.

They're like, yeah, I got it written all over my face. And I'm like, no, it's the actual prosecutor on the case. And that was such a good experience from beginning to end. And I brought her down and introduced her to the lead detective who's a spirit court judge and a friend of mine. And she was like frickin' smart. And she was asking questions of us that, like, 20 year detectives ask when you're sitting there at lunch,

going, what do you think these guys think? Or what's the, like, she was already at that level and she just really wanted to understand it. I was blown away by it. And one of those things that we all wonder, it's like, who would get in the car with the serial killer? You know, who would be dumb enough to like go into the woods with this guy?

And then when you actually deal with them, okay, like with Rodney, five minutes after dealing with him and the first day after you went pro-pro, representing yourself, it's like, that's why. Because you get that, you get that. Yeah, like the Ted Bundy, yeah. You get the Ted Bundy,

you get that hard dose of superficial charm. And it's like, which is one of the most fascinating things about serial killers in general, but this actor friggin nailed it and he and he and he is such a good job you saw it of going from that like charming guy to going dark and that was Rodney Alcala and that movie was phenomenal. Yeah it's really good. So anyway it's a chapter out of the book for anyone who wants to buy it. Yeah so everybody get the book or the audio and then we're gonna watch the three part

on the Hulu now that we know something about it. It'll be that much more interesting to watch. Thank you. Okay, well now we have even more we want to discuss, but the time is up. So that is going to be over on my Patreon. You go to heathermcdahl.net, join Patreon, and you can see the tier that includes Juicy Crimes, and that will be, we will cover Luigi, we will cover Epstein, we will cover P. Diddy, and so much more. That is all over on the Patreon.