Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Matt Rife’s Bad Joke and the Murder Scoop with Matt Murphy

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

Stand up comedian Matt Rife is getting dragged on social media for his Netflix special. Were his jokes that offensive, or just not that original? Then, former prosecutor Matt Murphy joins the show to fill us in on several high profile murders. Matt highlights the Tupac murder mystery, and why it took two decades to get kicked back up again. A cycling love triangle ended in tragedy. To wrap it up, Matt gives us the latest scoop on the horrific Idaho murders and the Gilgo Beach serial killer. Happy Thanksgiving! Enjoy! Shop Juicy Scoop Merch https://juicyscoopshop.com Get EXTRA Juicy on Patreon https://patreon.com/juicyscoop Follow Me on Social Media Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Follow Matt Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattmurphylaw Treat yourself to the best bras on the market and save 20% at https://honeylove.com/juicy Go to https://theouai.com and enter promo code JUICY for 15% off! Request a Cologuard prescription today at https://cologuard.com/juicyscoop Experience the ease and convenience of shopping Blue Nile today. Go to https://bluenile.com. Get affordable luxury for everyone on your list with Quince. Go to https://quince.com/juicy to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This message is brought to you by Cologuard. Cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer if you are 45 or older and at average risk for colon cancer. It's uniquely effective because it is the only FDA-approved non-invasive screening test that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool. And Cologuard is delivered straight to your door. In addition to the convenience and ease of use,

it's also affordable. Most injured patients pay $0. Yes, you heard that right. Now I get it. Talking about screenings isn't the most glamorous topic, but it is crucial. Trust me, taking care of your health is essential, and Colorguard makes it accessible and effective. Let's stay on top of our health game ladies and gentlemen, and keep that colon cancer screening in check. So if you're 45 or

older and at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with cologuard. Cologuard is available by prescription only. You can also request a cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com slash juicy scoop. Do not use cologuard if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or personal or family history of colorectal cancer. Balls positive and negative results may occur. Any positive result should be followed by a colonoscopy. Not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients.

Had the McDonald Has got the juices Scoot When you're on the road when you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juice is scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales. Her real life is to segment serial data and serial systems. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life hot cat. Listen in, listen up.

Woo, woo,. Hannah McDonald. Juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy scoop. I have a great Juicy scoop for you. This Thanksgiving and maybe one that you're enjoying this after Thanksgiving or whenever because it is a Juicy conversation with Matt Murphy. One of your favorite Juicy scoopers. He has a former prosecutor of Newport Beach, but you also know him from 2020,

but best you know him from his many now appearances on juicy scoop. And we have a great conversation about several high profile crimes that he has some insight that nobody else knows. But first, I wanna talk about a lot of people that I've asked my opinion on this, and I have gone deep dive,

and I've gotten your opinions. I've gotten TikTokers of opinions and it does interest me because it's about a comedian, one of our most popular comedians today, which is a guy named Matt Rife. He's a good looking white guy, little frat boy looking. He has, I thought it was a Southern accent. Some people say it's a black accent, which he's getting criticism for that, meaning he is trying to sound like a black man. I don't know.

I just thought he was Southern. And he had an admitted glow up. He's been doing comedy for 12 years. He didn't just pop off from his living room. He has been doing actual stand-up comedy for over 12 years. He was best known for being on Wild and Out, which is, you know, you know, that show with Buchanan. And then he was having trouble. He wasn't even getting into like festivals or anything. And he always posted videos and one popped and it was him doing crowd work. Then he started

post more and more about his crowd work and people, comedians, myself included, were very impressed with that, the way that he could do so well talking to an audience that he doesn't know and building on it and really making fresh, funny material. Some comedians are really good at that. Others don't do it as much.

When I do my shows, I don't do much of it because I'm really excited to tell you guys new stories I'm a storyteller about my life when I go on stage other people do more observational jokes some people do one-liners and some people do crowd work some people do it all okay he gets a Netflix special he starts selling out arenas incredible amounts there's podcasts where say he made 25 to 45 million last year, things like that. And you know, he's only 28 now. He got his teeth done the first six. I suggest always getting a few more because you can see the, the ones that are not veneered in the back, but he is a good looking guy. He has full lips. Those appear to be natural. The jawline is questionable. It's very easy to fill your jawline. But also, guys, I'm growing, I'm raising two of them. They do start to get more chiseled as they get into their 20s and some people are

late bloomers. Okay. So that is why people are like, wow, this guy is good looking. And a lot of women loved him flock to a show thought he was funny. Prior to a special, he started doing some interviews and whatnot where he's like, I know I have a big female comedy fan base, but I'm not pandering to the females. My comedy is really for the guys. Keep that thought in mind. The special begins and the overall review of the special is his crowd work is much funnier than his actual written material. I watched a solid 25 minutes of it. I did fall asleep in between. I don't really always laugh out loud at communion because I, being a comedian, I sort of like,

oh, he's talking about that. Okay, that's slightly clever, whatever. I didn't think the standup was great. There were some things. He did a bit about old people that I was like, that's kind of weird. You know, that's really cool, but whatever. And the thing that he's really getting heat for is a domestic violence joke. And the joke is basically, it starts. It's the first joke of his special. And he comes out and he's like, oh, I was in Baltimore

with my buddy, with my boy, and we walked into a restaurant and the woman who greets us the way to us had a black eye, like an obvious black guy. And his boy says, wow, I feel kind of bad that she's like the face of the restaurant. Maybe, you know, maybe they should put her in the kitchen and Matt Rice punchline is, I think if she could cook, she wouldn't have a black eye. Okay. Now, obviously he's not, doesn't really believe that women who shouldn't, that aren't good at cooking should be beaten up. He does not believe that women who shouldn't, that aren't good at cooking, should be beaten up.

He does not believe that, I, please. He's making a joke of the absurdity of how horrible domestic violence is. That's my opinion as a comedian. However, I do think there's certain subjects that are not really worth tackling today in 2023. I think this might be one of them. So a lot of women didn't find it funny, found it triggering. But mostly, I agreed with some of the comedians. I saw comment

on this on social media where they're like, this isn't really an original joke. And then I remembered where I first heard something like this. And it was a female comedian friend of mine had a joke. I believe a friend of hers wrote it and then gave it to her. And I'm not saying her name. I'm just saying it's not my joke. I'm not saying her name because I don't need people to go after her whatever. But the joke was she comes out and she's like, no woman should ever be hit, touched anything no matter what the circumstances is.

I do believe that. And everyone cheers and she goes, but you got to ask yourself, did you gain a little weight? Did you get a little snappy? Did you spout your name on your, you know, your, your head off again to your man? Something to the effect of that. Now, of course, she was joking as well, but you know, but it was the surprise element of the punchline that, and I believe that joke might have gone in one of her early specials.

But you retire material. I had a joke earlier in my standup, and it was the one joke my mom's like, I don't like that joke. I don't like it, and I'll tell you now. I said, so my husband, he was an altar boy, and everyone goes, you know, and I'll tell you to you now. I said, so my husband, he was an altar boy, and everyone goes, mm, you know. And I said, and he's upset because he was not molested. And he's like, where's my archdiocese pay out?

What was my ass not tied enough as I brought the chalice back to, you know, the altar? Where, why was an eye chosen? That was the joke. And my mom's like, I don't like it. And I'm like, Mom, I'm saying it because not everybody was molested. And you should be happy about that. I mean, but you know what? I did stop saying it. I was like, if it's upsetting my mom, it's probably subsetting other people. And I couldn't write other stuff. I've talked about that with you guys in the past that I retire jokes, I give up jokes, I'm never like, I'm doing that joke.

If it bothers people, I write another thing. So anyway, my point is I don't think his jokes are very clever. They're not original thoughts and they're, and I don't know that I, you know, we believe these stories is not really telling that many personal stories about his life, but whatever. So TikTok who blew them up starts going crazy in the last couple days. And they're realizing that he doesn't really care about his female fans, which is stupid,

because female fans are the most powerful, the most loyal, the most coveted demographic. I'm so grateful to have them. But I will say, because I'm being honest here, and I don't like this about myself, that there have been times when I've had shows and I've done a meet and greet. And all my girls are coming up and they're loving me, and I listen to juice to scoop, and you're standing up with so funny. And then they're like, I dragged my husband, which I always say, don't say that drag your husband. And then the straight man is like, you were hilarious. You were so funny, I'm so pleasantly surprised, I'm so glad I came, something like that. And I get mad because I'm actually more excited

to hear that comment from a straight man than females. I'm just admitting it, I don't feel that way anymore, but there was a time where I was like really excited to get that adoration and that you're cool girl from straight men. That's just the way I'm just being honest. I don't like it, I'm being honest about it. So he says, I don't pan to Matt Rive says, I don't pan to my female audience.

He said this in several interviews. I'm really, guys really find my humor really funny. So now people are like, I think we know the real Matt Rive. I think he's a frat guy. I think this is the way he talks about his friends. I don't think he respects women. I think he's misogynistic. And maybe men will like him better.

I mean, when Louis CK was being attempted to be canceled for everything he did, men kept going to CM. He got a Grammy. He's selling at Big Eric. Men kept going to see him. He got a Grammy. He's selling up big rooms again. People are going to see him. They don't really care.

I don't feel like the straight men are really the ones with the torches in the streets trying to cancel people. So do I think Matt has anything to worry about? Some maybe, but I don't know. There's probably a lot of people that never even heard of them until you're driving around listening to Juice the Scoop now, and now you know that he's kind of

this controversial feat. Guy, you might go watch a special now and go, I thought it was really funny. To me, it's fresh. I thought it was cool. I liked looking at his jawline, you know, and everything. We'll see if that's real or not.

I'm sure someone I kind of was doing side-by-side photos, but whatever, that's important. But of course, plastic surgery is an interest in mine. He also did podcasts where he got into the anatomy of female genitalia and what he likes and what he doesn't like down there and said some really graphic things that I'm not going to repeat here that are not about bashe on trans women and a bashe on women in general and so people don't like that. But that's what podcasting is. It's people talking about what they talk about when they're alone with each other. That's what we like podcasting or listening to a conversation. And there's locker room talk on a lot of podcasts. And there's also a lot of women

that will talk about men's penis size and if they were circumcised and that they were bad and bad and they outmen all the time for their performance in the sack and the size of their penis. But men aren't in the street saying those women should be canceled, how dare they talk about the size of our. So I don't really agree with either one of the conversation.

I think it's gross. I don't think it's cool when you date someone and you don't like him and he hurts your feelings and you're like, by the way, everybody, because how do we know? The only way we know, or you say to, I know someone who her friend was getting married to a wonderful guy and she told everybody to party, oh, but he has a small penis.

So don't be jealous. And you know who was jealous? The friend saying that. And who the fuck knows if it's true and who cares and why is it our business. I think it's really gross. I think women could do better. This message is brought to you by Cologuard. Cologuard is a one of a kind way to screen for colon cancer if you are 45 or older and

at average risk for colon cancer. It's uniquely effective because it is the only FDA-approved, non-invasive screening test that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool. And cologuard is delivered straight to your door. In addition to the convenience and ease of use, it's also affordable. Most injured patients pay $0. Yes, you heard that right. Now I get it.

Talking about screenings isn't the most glamorous topic, but it is crucial. Trust me, taking care of your health is essential, and Colorguard makes it accessible and effective. Let's stay on top of our health game ladies and gentlemen and keep that colon cancer screening in check. So if you're 45 or older, end at average risk, ask your health care provider about screening

for colon cancer with Colorguard. Colorguard is available by prescription only. You could also request a Colorguard prescription Drisk. Ask your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with cologuard. Cologuard is available by prescription only. You can also request a cologuard prescription today at cologuard.com slash juicy scoop. Do not use cologuard if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or personal or family history of colorectal cancer. Pulse positive and negative results may occur. Any positive result should be followed by a colonoscopy, not a replacement for colonoscopy

in high risk patients. So anyway, the final thing is he responds, Matt Rife. And he's like, anyone that's offended by my comedy, click on this link. And this was honest stories about a day and a half ago, two days ago. You click on the link and it's a website for helmets for children with special needs. So he's doubling down on, I don't give a fuck. And maybe this is his goal. Maybe this is his goal to get rid of the audience that did care and did come.

Maybe he really doesn't like looking out to a sea of women. I had a, you know, on my show that said, I'm tired of, you know, comments from middle-aged women. Hey, some men feel like that. Some people are like, I'd really rather have this other audience. Love me, not this one. I'm happy to have anybody. It means so much to me that there's all different walks of life coming to see my stand-up. I love a mother daughter, a mother son. I love a husband wife. I love to husband. I love to women, to late life.

I love it all. I try to do an act that everyone can relate to and, you know, as some people relate to it more than others, but hopefully everybody will laugh. Other comedians are different. And so that was the controversy that was happening. A little update on P-ditty. Now, this just popped up. Now this guy, this is from Rolling Stone,

her way Pierre that used to work for Bad Boy Records. He has just been hit with a, I believe it's a lawsuit. It's from a Jane Doe. We don't know her name, but at one time she was his assistant, and she is saying that she was groomed and sexually assaulted by him for years. And there's, of course, this is from Hollywood, a lot locked, not of course,

but it was Hollywood unlocked, and there's a photo of P. Diddy with this man. Also, I saw in Rader Online that someone close to Cassie is coming forward and saying another part of being P. Diddy's little Barbie doll in which he did horrible things to her He wanted to get her boobs done. She went to a plastic surgeon who was no longer with us He's deceased because he was texting Someone and he went off a cliff in Malibu and he died

Anyway, they get a boob's job and she comes home and he's like, they're too big. The next day he's sitting in the office with the, according to this friend from Writer Online, sitting in the office with the now deceased plastic surgeon and he's like, take him out and get put smaller ones in. And she's crying and she's not speaking for herself and he's like, the surgeon's like, no, no, wait, there's a lot of swelling. It'll go down and it's not good to do and he's like, the surgeon's like, no, no, wait, there's a lot of swelling, it'll go down and it's not good to do surgery so close to each other.

She went along with it, I assume she had to sign even though she was crying and never spoke. And then he put her under a week later to replace the boobs to the size that P diddy wanted. There is a photo of her out with her daughter, Cassie. I hope she has a beautiful Thanksgiving. I love that she has shared her stories, that people are coming out,

that she wasn't silent, even though people are like, shut up, move on. You were with them for these. I totally believe everything this woman said, and I think this is a perfect scenario for her. She got her story out, she got her money, and she doesn't have to be dragged through a court thing for years to come. But that is why her story out, she got her money, and she doesn't have to be dragged through a court thing for years to come.

But that is why I speak out, and I have, anytime someone has said lies about me or whatever, I speak out, and I share because I'm not going to be silenced, I'm not going to keep the secrets of the people that treated me horribly. And that has been my, you know, M.O. since I started this podcast eight and a half years ago. So anyway, we haven't you seen one. I also want to tell you guys, if you're part of Patreon, they.O. since I started this podcast eight and a half years ago. So anyway, we have a juicy one. I also want to tell you guys if you're part of Patreon, there'll be not only a Friday Patreon, there is going to be the Get Me Be Got behind Gates Patreon that I've been promising

you guys. I just wanted to have all the information which I now do for a real juicy one. I'm going to be doing a true crime with Shannon, a juicy crime since she's here. That's all going to be dropped over the weekend while you're cleaning or walking or, you know, doing shopping, speaking of shopping, all of the Heather McDonald dot net merch will be available with a discount. And we're going to give that discount on our Patreon. So if you want to get anything for anyone you love, that's what you do.

And now for a juicy one with Matt Murphy. We've got the juicy crimes expert here, Matt Murphy, welcome back. We have so many juicy crimes to discuss. So much. First of all, the most important question for the juicy scuopers. What is going on? Are you still single?

Yeah, I'm still single. Got a place. The disaster that is my love life continues. I'm on a baited. I've got a place in New York City. So I'm splitting time right now. I'm doing a bunch of media out there. Okay. I've been working on a book. People know you best, I think, from 2020. You're regular on 2020, right? Right. So yeah, I've worked for ABC News in New York City. They just had the season premiere for 2020. They went head-to-head against Dateline on the same story and-

What story was that? That was this case out of Austin. Oh so let's talk about that. But before we do a different case? Tell me the case out of Austin. So this is one where it is, it's an old plot line. It's this one that manipulated the Green Beret, the former special forces soldier in a murdering her husband. And it's actually tragic. And this is one where I, after 17 years on homicide, I've finished working on that story,

feeling kind of sorry for the guy, for the slayer. Okay, now I know the story. Yeah. It's awful. It's awful. This woman is, so basically she wanted, she wanted life insurance money, the oldest motive in the world, right? And she wants a randomly getting hit up or hitting up her high school flame who had six combat tours, got blown up on, so we had a traumatic brain injury, certainly affected his reasoning, and then did the plot to body heat, where she convinced him she's being sexually abused by her horrible husband.

Which is such a common thing. It is. It is, that is the storyline for it all. Body heat for those who haven't watched it. And finding a guy gullible enough and into you enough to believe it. And then be that protector. Yeah, so for those who haven't seen Body Heat,

William Hurnt, Calping Turner, awesome movie, Mickey Rourke is in it too. And wasn't it a redo of another old movie? Yeah, that's right, that's exactly what I said. An old redone noir, and that is basically the sample outline of the case we talked about in Newport, the drop in murder. Getting your boyfriend to kill your husband.

Yeah, only what's different about those, those two cases and the noir is that the women in those cases were all stunningly beautiful. And so at least you could sort of see it. This one in Texas, she is, she is horrible in every way. And she like, you wouldn't't you wouldn't kill somebody Based on superficial aspects of her personality alone. She's not that smart She's not pretty and she wants to convince in the scatty killer husband and it is awful in every way So wow, okay, so that so you're doing that you have a place in New York place in New York, yep, and

And then you still have your place here in LA. Yeah, still a law practice here in LA. Yeah. And so what's going on, so you haven't found anyone that you like? You know, I mean, I actually very recently have met somebody that I've only gone out a couple dates sort of thing, So we'll see.

But now I'm going to go on. Is she a juicy scooper? You know what, she is not, but you know who's become a juicy scooper? Me. I have become, since we did that interview in Newport, it was that last summer or two, it was like that. Yeah, last, it would have been, not this past summer, but the one before, yeah. Okay, right.

I've washed this. This is while they're entertaining to me. Thank you. I'm glad I can do all the horror that is your job and glad you can laugh. No, the Jada Piquet Smith stuff, we're just talking about this. I am so like you express exactly what I'm thinking. So that tends to bring you back.

Like you'll say things on some of this Hollywood stuff that it's super entertaining to me. And you were also saying before we get into seven of the cases I want to cover that you have a book deal. You've so you've already done it and now they're editing it or you're still writing it. No, the manuscript's done.

Okay. We turned it in on time September 1st and now it's with the editor who's I'm actually really excited to work with this guy. He's normally edits for National Geographic and he's the man. So if you can make me sound smart, I'm all for it. So it's a cool- They can enjoy the process of writing it.

Yeah, so what I would do is I got this place in New York with the idea, I saw this interview with a guy named Ryan Holiday, who wrote a bunch of books on stoicism, randomly, and they said, what is your recommendation to a new author? And he said, number one, move to a city you don't live and number two, don't tell anybody what you're doing. So I've already blown number two,

but the move to a city you don't live, New York is dynamic and it's fun and not being in a committed relationship right now. It's an amazing place. I'm from here. And so you found him like a nice place with like sunlight coming in the window and just got your fingers typing or like you walked. Nice shirt.

Yeah, nicer than I deserve this exact right. And did you feel like you were living like a movie? I walked. I'm a writer now. I walked into this place and it was like this is where I wanted to. It's right on park avenue. It's got a view of park avenue. Awesome.

And so I'm super close to Central Park. So my morning routine is get up in the morning, get coffee at this place called St. Ambrose, right, right across the street. Okay. Walk to the park, find a bench, and then write and tell my budher and then walk around the park. You're right on your laptop or what? Okay. Yep. And then back and that was my routine for most of the summer. And before I knew it, we had 10 chapters, 100,000 words. And yeah, and I hope people like it.

It's kind of a mix of, it's a memoir. It's a mix of sort of my personal experiences, stony personal thoughts, going to murder scenes, and then some of the bigger cases that I did over the years. So awesome. Let's get your opinion on some of these hot ones. So this is a story of

Caitlin Armstrong. Remind everybody, because I was like, wait, this is a girl that got jealous of an ex-boyfriend's new girlfriend and involved bicycles. What is the story behind this? This is it's fabulously awesome is what this is and tragic at the same time. So there's this, it's essentially love triangle. It is this sort of famous but fading cyclist who's hitting his mid-30s and starting to go downhill a little bit and he's in the off-road biking thing. His name's Strickland, I think his name is.

And he's sort of a fading star and he's got this girlfriend who he lives with. They started a business refurbishing trailers like camping trailer. Yeah, thanks and then he wants to meeting the young up and coming beautiful 25-year-old off-road biking star from San Francisco and they have a they have an affair He says he's broken up with his girlfriend. Yeah, Caitlin Armstrong and she His girlfriend, yeah, Caitlin Armstrong and And she Loses her I love him mind, Caitlin does and winds up and you know for a lot of people in the committed murder

It's their first rodeo. So it's like when we do anything for the first time we suck at it and she made pretty much every mistake That you could possibly make and they can do what did she do? How did she kill first of all she drove her own car To to go and kill this poor young woman who's staying with a friend. So she goes in, she uses a firearm that her boyfriend purchased for her. But wait, the cyclist boyfriend? The cyclist boyfriend. This is Austin, Texas. Okay, botter gun. Botter gun. Okay.

She used that gun. It's a semi-automatic six-hour, so what that does forensically and some of the true crime fans will will know this. They eject shell casings and shell casings are as unique as fingerprints when it comes to firearms. So there's a thing called the Niven system and all they do, they look microscopically at the lands and grooves and they can match expended shell casings left at a crime scene if they can recover the gun at Firedom and guess what? They recovered the gun in the place that she lived with her boyfriend. And so they were living together, but at one point, he's like, we were on a break, but

and he, you know, has a little with this girl. But was he currently still seeing her at the time of the murder? So this is one of those things. He's, he has turned out like for people who have followed the story, he doesn't come off looking very good because it looks like he's kind of hedging his bets. In the view of some, I'm not saying that, but yeah. But yeah, he's, he's got,

there's some text messages that have gone public between him and the 25 year old professional cyclist, where she's basically saying, hey, I'm a little bit confused, super awkward because it's one of those things where it gets so bad, she's confronted a couple times by Caitlin Armstrong. Oh, so she knew that this chick was after. And so she's writing him like,

are you broken up or what the hell? Right, and he's come out, said, hey, we got back together, it was, I was on a break, it was all legit, but you read some of those text messages and it's, he was not, didn't appear he's entirely clear with the 25 year old. She comes out to Austin to stay with a friend to do some, some professional race and that's when she's murdered.

And how is she murdered? Did she walk out the, she was in her friends apartment. Okay. And, uh, Caitlin Armstrong drives her own vehicle and they're, they're all in the bike circuit, right? So they've got, it's a very distinct black Jeep Cherokee with these specialized bike racks on the back and on the top, which, and there's probably a couple of cars in all of Austin that fit that.

So drives her own car, it's everything but the license plate. She's driving around for a while right before the murder. And she was the guy went out with the 25 year old victim, took her to do all this outdoor swimming thing. They had a couple drinks and dropped her off right before she was murdered. So she comes in, the friend she's staying with was gone and the victim gets shot and is found in the bathroom. And there's a...

So Caitlin went into the house. Right. And we don't know, do we know if she like knocked on the door and they had a conversation or did she just burst in an unlocked door and find her? We think that the doors, what they think, the door is unlocked because she had a lock with like a, it's an electronic lock. So with a code. All right.

So, we know exactly when, when the victim got home and then shortly thereafter, there's gunshots, her friend finds her and then there's this gut wrenching I don't want more. Her friend is giving CPR, and it got very graphic. She's, because she's shot once in the chest and twice in the head. And with ammunition that's designed to fragment. So as she's giving CPR, I don't know if I can say this.

Yeah. Yeah, on the nine of one type, and she's absolutely distraught. She's trying to save her friend. She's like, but her brains are coming out as I'm giving chest compressions. It is horrific, which is also like, you know, the actual visceral horror of what people look like when they've actually been murdered is something that most people thankfully never get to see. But it's also, it's a reminder of just how awful this was. And then she runs for it. She flees to Costa Rica, has a nose job, tries to change her appearance.

Again, not super smart. Starts working at a youth hostel. So she's encountering Americans everywhere. Costa Rica is a horrible place to disappear because the Costa Rican judiciary actually is somewhat functional and the cops will catch and extradite people. The US Marshals office has a really good relationship with them. Like, there's a lot of places surprisingly in Latin America that are very extraditioned friendly, including Mexico.

Where is a good place to go? That you have a better chance of- As I tip off all the murders, where to flee to? would, that you have a better chance of. As I tip off all the murders, where to play to? No, I don't mind doing it. It's like what is a place? What is a place? Would suck so bad that it might.

Where is a place that would be a harder chance? I'll give you three. Cuba, Venezuela, and Iran. Those are all places that are never going to exorbitate the United States, which was of course my naeuri case. I don't know if we've ever talked about that. So my last trial, he was a citizen of Iran

and we lured him out. We learned into the Czech Republic and basically threw a net on him and an extra net on him. And what was this grab again? He kidnapped a marijuana dispenser, your honor. Took him out into the desert and when he didn't get the money that he thought was buried out there,

he cut off his penis. Yeah. And the guy lived. And he lived. Yes, it's horrific. That's the case. I just presented on a crime con. Okay.

So, okay. First I want to talk about crime con. Let's finish this. So what has happened to her now? She escaped. So they found her in Costa Rica. They found her in Costa Rica. So and she was only there for, I think it was 42 days before they caught her okay, which is like

That's like tomorrow and as far as international extra editions. Go. That's instantaneous The extraditer they bring her back to Texas and then they were her trial was scheduled to begin in like a week And they take her to this medical appointment and there's this Benny Hilsin that a lot of people have have seen on video where she is in handcuffs running from this from the police. She somehow got away and they're chasing around this parking lot and like this police officer keeps falling down as they're like I feel kind of bad for that cop. It just kept falling over and over like and this and this one is she's like a semi-professional cyclist. She's an awesome shape. And she's running around this tree, tries to climb a fence with her arms behind her back, which doesn't work very well.

And they eventually caught her. And that's totally admissible against her. So. Is that something that happens? Like, you have to go to a medical appointment. Like, what kind of medical appointment cannot wait when you're like a healthy woman? Like, oh, I have a toothache or so.

What the hell is it? They're required to provide medical care. Any sort of like specialized medical treatment is always off campus. It's always outside of the table. It's always at some facility. So they do that routinely. But for a woman that's already fled, it's like, they're getting a lot of heat right now, probably just five or should have been in an ankle chance or something because she's already

starting made a runner, but they did catch her. She's back in custody now and she's fundamentally, I think I can say that she's an idiot because everything she could do to get caught, she did. She's being tried in Texas. Texas jury is going to do her and she's going to, she's going to eat first scrimmurder with a gun and that'll be that for her. she's gonna eat first-degree murder with a gun. And that'll be that for her. Where is the boyfriend?

Will he be part of the trial? I'm sure, right? Yeah, he'll be part of the trial. He's basically been in damage control ever since. So all the sponsors dropped on, I think except for Red Bull. But he had a bunch of sponsors, and he was doing it as a profession.

Yeah. So they've all run from him. And yeah, I don't know. It's a... So she had confronted the victim like on the street or called her or what? Called her. Yeah, called her.

And there's witnesses to that. And then... And Ben like said what? Like stay away from her man. Yeah, stay away from my man. Words out of fact. And then she's with the guy. And she's like, I just had the weirdest phone call and he's

like, oh, I'm really embarrassed. It's my ex girlfriend. She's a psycho. Yeah, just true. The victim is. The one time a guy says a girl is the ex girlfriend's a psycho. He was telling the truth. Right, right.

Yeah. And ex not really ex anymore type thing. And the victim was totally innocent in that. Completely innocent. Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, totally innocent. So. Oh. Oh yeah, totally. And yeah, totally innocent. So, yeah. But, so, Justice, Justice will be done on that.

She's gonna. Before we get to the next case, tell us about how you into crime con and we're scared that I'm scared that you won't be your humble self anymore. Oh my God, trust me. So, crime con is absolutely surreal. I'll give a little closer. Crime con is surreal.

CrimeCon is. Is this the first time you've been? No, it's my third time to CrimeCon, but this is the first time. It's the second time I've presented myself. So, I went once with ABC News in 2019 right before COVID, and that was a blast. Where was that? That was in New Orleans. First time I'd ever been.

When it was in Nashville, I think the year before, Keith Morrison. Yep. And Josh Mankowitz came to my standup show after they'd been at CrimeCon all day. So ABC will be mad at me for saying this, but they're two of the nicest guys. They're like the enemy and like the, you know, the head-to-head true crime stuff. Josh was at this last one. I love both of those. I know. Everybody's nice in real life as they seem to be on TV. Great. Okay, so where was this one held? So this was in Orlando, Florida, another place I'd never been.

And it's this Marriott world, Orlando world, Marriott something that is probably the biggest building I've ever been in. It was like the Pentagon with endless hallways that just go forever. These massive rooms and they do big national conventions. That's kind of their gig. And I got a room to talk about my nairi case, the who's saying nairi, that one that I told you about. The guy we lowered out of Iran. And I figured, you know figured a few hundred people might show

for my little horse and pony show, and there was 3,200 people in the room. It's a gray crowd. Everybody's super nice. But it's this weird mix of true crime. What's the word? Phenatics are too strong because they're not crazy enough for Phenatics that are fanatics is too strong because they are all they're not crazy enough for Phenatics. They're too nice. Yeah, and then the a lot of industry. I don't even know if that's

right word, but like podcasters like date line will show up 48 hours will show up so it would be kind of people that that are in the business of true fun. And then they'll also have they'll prosecuteers to talk about cases. I could have a panel with Camille Vasquez, who is a former student of mine, who cross-examining Amber Hurd. She was a student of yours? I coached her for three years in high school mock trial. Believe it or not.

And it's... Wait a minute, what high school was she at? She was at Cornelia, Econoli in Orange County. Oh my God, amazing. So yeah, her teacher was married to a buddy of mine who was... Were you on mock trial in high school at Loyal? No, they didn't have it back then. At least I don't think so. It's Constitutional Rights Foundation. They need coaches. You know, my sister's an attorney. I just want to say and she did not make the mock

trial team in high school. Oh, that's awesome. And it was like the one male teacher. And when I saw him, I'm like, you know, my sister's an attorney now. And you didn't. And he said, do you know that every girl that has come up to me that became an attorney that I did not allow them to be on a mock trial? So he's like, so I actually think I did more for those women. Am I motivating them?

Yeah, I'm motivating them. Okay, so continue. You're coaching her now. So basically Jane Monos is the teacher's name. She's married to Ed Monos, who's a buddy of mine from the homicide, you know. So she's one of those women that I've learned I, who's a buddy of mine from the homestead. So she's one of those women that I've learned.

I just need to do what she tells me to do. So she's like, okay, you're going to coach my team. So Mia, buddy of mine, Brian Garowitz, another friend at Flores. We went up coaching our team for four years. Camille was on it for three in high school. And did you think she had a lot of talent as an attorney back then? I did. Okay, she was so into it, wanted to be a lawyer, nicest kid,

and has grown up to be the nicest woman. And Camille Vazquez is the real deal. Like for those of you who didn't, or you can watch anything. No, we covered it a lot on this show. And she did a great job. She did a great job. Yeah.

So I got to watch that, like talk about a fanboy, like watching that. And I did some commentary for Good Morning America on that case. And, you know, I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, the single greatest method of attaining truth or brawmater of truth is the art of cross examination. It's like a famous old quote that you learned in law school. Yeah. And that's an example of that.

Like she owned Amber Heard and kind of saved a guy's reputation, I think, from their perspective. Yeah, that was, I mean, that was an amazing, I talked a lot about it, but I still was sort of shocked that by doing this open op letter or whatever that she did, that it led to that. Right. You know what I mean? I was a little bit like, wait a minute, you know, about First Amendment and all that. And I was like, this is her perspective and she didn't, so that's where I was, I was probably the only one talking about that aspect of it.

Like, I'm like, look, like, she's, you know, not a good wife and all this stuff, but he was also an awful husband. Yeah, terrible toxic relationship. you know, not a good wife and all this stuff, but he was also an awful husband. And terrible toxic relationship. Yeah. But he, from Camille's perspective, she's like, yep, terrible toxic relationship, but he never sexually assaulted her.

He never physically abused her. And that was like, that was the allegations that you can be, you can be accused of being a bad husband, bad boyfriend, but not get canceled. But once allegations of sexual assault, which they made in spades against him, and that's a tricky thing, too, because I'm huge advocate of victims rights. I did sexual assault before I went to homicide. I do pro bono work for rape victims.

But the one that makes the false claim is what makes it difficult on the real victims. Totally. Right. And that is an important thing to point out. Right. And yeah. And she, at the end of that relationship, she made allegations that got him completely canceled. And now he's like, I think he's negotiating or back with Disney or something. And he's back. Don't you just say he's got. And that was the other stuff about how she means she was about like, what who'd want you? You old fat man and all the stuff. And then now, you know, now he has the

sponsorship for the clone and all this other stuff that he's still, it's great. And so that was just, but that was like a part of history with like all the fans of Sither, the Edward Sither hand people and the pirates outside. I mean, that was like a glorious time. Right, and then Camille's walking out

and they had a gag order. And you know, part of the technique, and this is kind of trial 101, but you want to sort of somebody that's, a man that's been accused of abuse, you want the most diminutive, petite, pretty young woman sitting next to him, because it demonstrates that the jury like jury is not a monster, right?

Right. So, Camille was kind of thrust into that position. And I don't think anybody knew what was coming, cross-examination wise, I did, but getting to do that, but then the rumor started, like, oh, look at her, she's, look at her. I think it started, I kind of started the rumor. I really kind of did, because he was so, like, but he look at her. She's like, I kind of started the rumor. I really kind of did because he was so like, but he's just sort of a gentleman and other people had tested like, no, I worked with him

and he is that guy that's, you know, puts his hand on someone's back and you go first and that kind of thing. It got physically touchy. Yeah. That's a tactic. That's a trial tactic. Oh, really?

Yeah, that big time. Do they plan that out? Um, probably. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You want the jury to see that because it demonstrates that he's not a danger, right? It's a very primal communication and a jury does not mess with thing. I mean, they like, whatever you do in front of a jury, they're they're they're watching it. You know, I've done 132 jury trials, and it's 24 eyeballs watching everything you do. And so that was, yeah. And so, and certainly, he is that guy.

He is like physically very touchy. And by not recoiling and not keeping it, you know, at arm side. I was glad that she didn't go on to like, stop doing real trials and become like a TV personality. Yeah, now she's, she's a real lawyer. I'm glad she went, I mean maybe in 10 years do that, but I'm like, I wanna see her like,

win some other really important cases, you know. She is the most humble, nicest person, kind of like Ethan and Josh. Like the real life Camille Vazquez is as nice as you can possibly imagine. She's amazing. That's awesome. Yeah. All right, I want to ask you about two-pock. What is the deal? Yeah, explain. Okay. So

here's one of the things that I think is fascinating about this. All right. Okay. Number one this is second to the maybe the Kennedy assassination as far as conspiracies go and This is second to the, maybe the Kennedy assassination, as far as conspiracies go. And books have been written. There was a lawsuit on these elaborate, multi-part things that were fascinating. And this is like East Coast, West Coast. You got bad boy records. You've got the diss songs that, you know, that Tupac made famous. I don't know if you're listening to the lyrics, I've hit them up. But I used to have this on my playlist. I was in the Orange County Gang Unit when this murder happened in 96.

Can you just explain for the people that are like confused because there's the Biggie murder. And then there was a two-pock, which took place in the streets of Las Vegas, right? Right, so in Vegas, a bunch of guys went out to Mike Tyson fight, and he was with a guy named Shug Knight, who was the CEO of Death Row Records and a thug.

Okay, a documented gangster, the real deal. Like back when like gangster rap was the thing and that was, it was so glorified. And this one, the Compton mayor was coming out calling himself on the gangster mayor and I think he went up going to prison too. I'm a stick and but. Oh my God.

But so he is on the strip. He'd been shot multiple times before. Two pocket. Two pocket and survived. And so had Shug Knight. And they're on the strip. And a car pulls up next to him. It's a white Mercedes-Benz.

And Shug and two pocket are in the same car. The Shug is driving. Two pockets in the passenger seat. And the car gets lit up with gunfire. And I can't remember how many times each was hit. They're both struck multiple times and Tupac lived for six days and then died. So then not long after, Biggie Smalls was out in Los Angeles at a record event. Oh gosh, I'm forgetting the name.

It's an auto museum near the medical mile. Yeah, right I know exactly shot in a drive-by and killed so There's been these all these conspiracy theories about involvement of the LAPD and All these all this wild stuff what it turned out to be with two-parks of cure Shakur He got a fight at the casino about 15 minutes before where they beat up a guy That was associated with a rival gang in LA, and they beat him up because he stole a freaking gold chain at the Lakewood Mall,

they happened to run it on the strip. It was with all the conspiracy theories, it was a totally been all stupid run of the mill gangler. And when one of the things that's also interesting to me. So wait, hold on. So, okay, so Tupac and Shug see this guy that stole a goal chain at the Lakewood Mall. Yes. And give him some shit physically. They beat him up, yeah, it's on video and there's a famous video inside a casino. Inside a casino, I think it's the MGM grand after this mic is fine.

And then they leave, they're like screwed. They leave. They get in the car, the guy that was beat up that stole the gold chain of the lake would mall. Off of somebody, you're like at a grocery store. The allegation was either heated or a gang associated has did it, but it was all over the stupid chain. This is like nothing.

And so then that guy gets in the car and shoots him all up. That guy and then happens to run into them. And he's in a car with four men, including this guy, Keithy D or whatever's in him is the guy that's got arrested. So of the two cars, there's six young men, okay? And you've got one of them is the CEO of a super successful record label.

One is Tupac Shakur, who's one of the most famous musical talents in American history. And then you've got four other young men in the car of all of them. Every single one of them is either dead or in prison today. So you talk about like the gangster rap lifestyle and the glorification of all that. And the first chapter in my book, I get rid of gang murders right away because gang murders are friggin boring. It is over stuff that normal people could never understand. It's like disrespect.

So it had nothing to do with Puffy or P Diddy. Because that was what was going on in the news in the last couple weeks. It had nothing to do with him. And I mean, I think they'll prove that, but the thing is the guy that was arrested, one of the interesting things about the case is that he's made a series of public statements where he says he handed the gun back to the guy who shot.

So there's a firearm in the car. They run into him, hey, that's the guy that just tuned me up. Here you go, take care of business. That's aiding and a vetting. That's co-conspirator. That action that he's admitted to multiple times. Once with a lawyer sitting next to him for an interview, I think it was BET, which is an absolute head scratcher, that's a full on aiding in a betting.

The problem is with the reason why there was never a prosecution in it. And there's a great quote from one of the investigators on the Biggie Smallsmerer. He said, we have, the two-pock murder has always been solved. It was never unsolved, it's always been unproscited. That was the line, which I thought was great. So they always knew that this guy did it, but they couldn't get anybody to actually pull the trigger and get an indictment. And one of the reasons for that is because gang culture, they have this like silence until death, oh, Marita, rule of the street thing. So shug night, the guy who was also shot, who's now in prison for, I think he, they finally put him to a volunteer man slaughter because

that on the set of, gosh, the straight out of the content movie, he ran over a guy, actually two guys killing one. So now he's back in prison, he's been in out of prison. He's, you know, he was out of prison when they were filming straight out of contra just a few years ago Yes, and then he ran over a guy now He won't be eligible for parole for like because of all the strikes and other crimes I think for at least another 10 or 11 years. So all of these guys so you think you'd get out and be like a total boy scout, right? Yeah, you would think unless and like and I'm gonna lie, whatever. So he refused to talk, then he's been,

he's been giving interviews from jail, going, oh, well, you know, this happened, that happened, but I ain't saying nothing, you know, and, so, and they certainly didn't file it with any expectation that he would testify. So they don't, they don't need it. So the kid that actually shot the gun with the gold chain, he's already been dead for how long?

Years, and that's another thing. And go down, so there's this famous video of two-pock and Shugnai beating up this guy. And there's gotta be 15 or 20 guys like in their entourage behind them, kind of all sort of momming up on the guy that they got beat up. And as they go through the list of names,

like of the car that they shot from, three out of the four guys in the shooter car are dead. The final survivor, just, he's one that got arrested. Tupac is dead. Shugnight has been in prison four years and will be for years. So there's this gangster lifestyle and it went, it was a dead end for all these guys. And in the entourage, name after name of witnesses

that sought, you know, killed in a drive-by three months after this, killed in an unrelated drive by six months later, they're all dead or in prison. There's, so it's fascinating. It's like where did, I mean, we're talking about mid-90s, where did the gangster lifestyle lead

and it went nowhere for all these guys, all dead or serving life in prison? And I think that's fascinating. You know, where it went. And this thing was just as dumb and mindless as every other gang were. So. Brian, I mean, this should be the lesson

to any kid that's like glorifying this. Yeah, it turns out, yeah. It's really. All right, let's talk. What is the latest going on with the Idaho murder? I saw the latest thing was, you know, now they're saying the victims were awake, were texting each other. And so let me just, so we're trying to remind people

yes, these the four kids that were slaughtered. Right. in at Idaho and they have the guy, you know, getting ready for trial. When this was all going down, I was at a party with someone whose kid went to Idaho. And this is before everyone's like, what is going on? Who, with this before they caught him, nobody knew what happened, why the girl wasn't, how did they not hear it, all that kind of stuff. And the story that was told to me didn't match up,

but now it is. The story that was told to me, which I was told do not say anything, Heather, don't say anything on your scoop. This is an active investigation, which I did not. You know, which is, I want people to me, which I was told, do not say anything, Heather, don't say anything on juicy scoop. This is an active investigation, which I did not. You know, which is, I want people to know. I mean, my God was that one or both of them were hiding under their bed, under the bed, and was texting each other. And then, and then we're all came out. I was like, well, I don't know if that's true. So what do we know right now?

Well, so yeah, those rumors are out there, but I don't think that information's been released in any sort of court document yet. So I don't think that's official. And the problem is, is that the case it had so much media. Right. Everything you kind of got to take with the grant

of salt unless it's in a search warrant or unless it comes out in a court document. The court, because the media attention has thrown a gag order over the whole thing, and so nobody can really talk. But I can tell you, the nuts and bolts of this are fascinating. So this is, first of all, it is horrific.

You've got four innocent kids, and this is an American psychopath. Yeah, this is the guy he's obsessed with at least one of them. I think he shows up there. And I love all the different conspiracy theories. Like, oh, wait a second. One of them was that the, and I think the defense actually sort of prompted this

in one of their filings that the police might have planted the sheath with the DNA on it. So there's a knife sheath that was found prompted this in one of their filings that the police might have planted the the sheath with the DNA on it. So there's a knife sheath that was found at the murder scene that had Brian coberters DNA on it on the on the on the buckle. And you know, where we heard that before, right? Like the the famous glove that right, which is down the street from where we are right now or not too far. But yeah, the police, uh, police didn't plan anything on that. They would, uh, when you, when you take it to the next logical step, it means that they basically would have had to have gotten his DNA from before the killing,

which means if they knew the killing was going to happen, they would have stopped it or they had to commit it themselves. Yeah. It's absurd. But, but it's a, it's a really interesting thing. So his, his, he leaves his apartment right before the mirror and he takes his cell phone with him and he doesn't turn it off until he's already on the road. So he's pinging in the direction of where the murder's happened. And then he turns it back on before he comes home. So he's pinging again, you can tell the direction

that a cell phone is moving because all those cell phone towers are actually, there are three panels. If he was studying criminal justice and was such a crime person, why would he have ever taken his phone with him in the first place?

There's a great line in the movie, Banner Brothers, should we see that? Where they're trying to figure out why the Germans are shooting at nothing. And one of the guys turns to his lieutenant and goes, because they ain't as smart as me and you. I think that's the answer. It's like this is his first rodeo, like we talked about.

It's, he is, everybody is generally bad at new enterprises. Like, first time you play golf, you suck at it. First time you go surfing, you suck at it. For a lot of people, when I go to commit murders for fun, which is what this boils down to, he was suck at it. For a lot of people, when I go to commit murders for fun, which is what this boils down to, he was bad at it. So you don't think he, so he was aware of these people. In your opinion, because, you know, going through it all, did he was obsessed with one of the girls? Did she reject him? Did they ever, did she swipe on a, on his face, on a dating thing? Did he expect only two people to be home, like all that?

And the boyfriend that was spending the night with the girl was the surprise that came forward. What are your thoughts? So I think that what happened, if I had a guess, he's obsessed over one for reasons known really only to him. Maybe that'll come out, maybe there'll be some social media contact between the two, she is not,

he is not her a cup of tea. He's a graduate student, and it's actually very close, even though it's across the state line in Washington state. Yeah. But we're talking about, both of the women in that room are beautifully young women. And Brian Cobrager is kind of a weird

illusor. Yeah. And, you know, sorry, Brian, but he was. Yeah. And I mean, that's probably the most normal looking photo I've seen the guy. Right. I agree. So he, I think that he went there expecting her to be alone. She, what he found out was she was sleeping with her friend. So I think he expected one person in the room. I can't imagine he didn't go over with the intent to sexually assault her. That didn't happen, probably because everything went nuts when he got in there.

So there's a second person there now that he wasn't expecting. This is sheer blind speculation based on everything. Yeah, and I've prosecuted enough of these guys. So they're very seldom, do you see a serial killer who there was an essential component to the motivation to do something like that. So I think he goes in expecting to rape and maybe murder one, there's two in the bed, she probably makes enough noise. I think the boyfriend probably came down to see what was going on, went up encountering a guy who's armed with a Marine Corps caber knife, which next to the Roman Gladius is probably the most vicious stabbing instrument ever invented in human history.

Which is another thing, like how could you take on four people? Trust me, a full grown guy who's motivated with a knife in his hand could kill four college kids that could have when he's getting him. Two of them are asleep. They're young women. They're probably all buzzed. They are all buzzed. Like if you look at the video of them are asleep, they're young women. They're probably all buzzed. They are all buzzed. Like if you look at the video them at the taco truck or whatever the place, like it's a typical Saturday night that we all had in college, they're not doing anything wrong. Right. And they're, but yeah, they're all, they're all buzzed that the one downstairs that saw him has gotten a whole lot of heat for she says that she looks out in season and then goes back to sleep.

or she says that she looks out in season and then goes back to sleep. So I think that, you know, it's a bunch of young, I think I can say, well, young women, I can say without a fanning anybody, right? Like back in our day, our day would have been a professional. Because there were the two that survived. There's one that saw him and then one that we've never heard from.

Right. And the one that saw him, I think that when she was talking to police, I think that she was doing that through the filter of what she woke up to in the morning. And I don't think she connected that ever. I mean, we're still in the middle of COVID. She's a guy with a mask leaving the house for young women living in a college house.

Like, young men walking out of that house in the middle of the night was probably not an unusual thing Yeah, so I think she sees that things okay Everything's quiet now goes back to sleep wakes up to help her skeleton in her apartment And so I think when she was giving that interview with the police it was through the shock But now they're saying that no now there is some text Proving that they were awake. That was the latest thing I saw that that she was awake Or that they were awake. That was the latest thing I saw. That she was awake? Or that they were awake when you were kind of

texting each other about like, did you hear that? That's weird. I'd be curious to see those. But I also think, you know, it could have been something where they just are like, what was that? You hear like a boom, like shatter. You know, then it's silence because they're dead. And then you're like, well, is the girl fighting

with her boyfriend or all right, whatever, I don't want to get involved. And then did you hear that? No, I didn't or something like that. And then the other girl that we've never heard from, I heard from like my person that she is just, was just, you know, done like so, meaning major mental health, help everything.

Right. And I mean, imagine walking into that. Both of them, I'm sure. Yeah, knife homicides are really ugly, thanks. Yeah. Because people die from what's called a sangwanation, they bleed to death. That's how you die from a knife.

Right. And so, yeah, this scene, yeah, would have been horrific. So. Yeah, and just everybody depicting like the kids and how they did it. And I'm like, gosh, you know, I think that's always the biggest thing with like watching the 2020s and the date lines. It's like when someone, you know, is the suspect or is the husband and it's like, well, he

he was crying, but no tears came. He was doing this and here's a moment where we see them chuckle. Mm-hmm. Well, like, you know, even after the worst deaths and stuff and people coming around, there's a moment where you're like, you know, you might have like a laugh. Like, and you know, and then that gets on camera

and forever that's what they play over and over again. Oh, obviously he did it or she did it or, you know. Yeah, that young woman downstairs has gotten an unfair amount of criticism, I think. I mean, and like, there's no way that either one of them even certainly didn't go back to that school. How could you ever go back to school? Oh, yeah.

So I mean, like besides the worst thing and the growth that could happen, your friends being murdered, you don't have a college life anymore. Right, right, right. You don't have anything to... Yeah, and imagine that. You're the one that has to have

people go, wait, how come you didn't call the cops for the rest of your life? Yeah, which is, you know, I mean, just, and it wouldn't have made any difference either, by the way, it wouldn't have saved them. Because this was, this was quick. He was in and out. Things went wrong. I think originally people thought she heard it and, you know, originally I thought she heard it, but she was smart enough to just stay quiet and maybe in staying quiet, like didn't even wanna turn on her phone or anything, like then she fell asleep,

like in staying quiet, fell asleep, then woke up, and then was like, was that a dream? What happened? Then saw it, then called the guys that live next door, then they called the cops. Yeah, I mean, I think you had to know on the head, though. It's life altering for them and their victims too. Yeah.

And I'll tell you what, when they put the pieces together on this guy, another thing that hasn't been released is what's on his computers. I can't wait to hear about that, because it's gonna be a cornucopia of, you know, massacistics, say-to-maskism stuff, you know, got only knows, but it'll be telling to the mental state

and of Bryant Cobruder, I'm sure. The computers are always, especially you get a couple of good friends with people on it, they can always find whatever six stuff he was into, it's gonna be on his computer. Yeah. And he wasn't smart enough.

Like, we got to take his freaking cell phone with him. Like, I mean, it's laughably stupid. Do you think the dad knew? Which dad? His dad remember they were driving together? Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so either. And here's another fascinating thing about serial killers.

A lot of people don't know. We always think of Buffalo Bill and Sounds of the Lams and somebody that was horribly abused. Vast majority of serial killers are spoiled as kids. And like Jeffrey Dahmer came from an intact home. He had a pretty good relationship with his dad. They kind of fudged that a little bit, I think, in the documentary, because almost trying to make it fit. Rodney Alcala, the case

I did the dating game killer. And Anna Kendrick is coming out of the movie on that that I got to help out on. Which is awesome. What's that one? What's that about? What's that crime about? It's on, it was a serial killer in the 70s. And then I went up prosecuting him in, after I got reversed for the second time, and then we got a whole bunch of DNA heads to a bunch of murders in LA.

But he was, he had a genius level IQ, had a loving home, had successful brothers and sisters. His brother came back a war hero from Vietnam, went to West Point. Wait, so in the 70s he killed. In the 70s, yeah. In where, what city? LA, LA, American County.

And who, who was he killing there? Um, he was, I mean, a lot of these guys go towards prostitutes. He was following really nice women home from bars. Um, all of them, every, every victim he had was like a, was a legit, like one was a pediatric cancer nurse killed her in Georgia, Wix state up in Malibu. And would he like, I just just as they're getting out of their car, walking to their door or how would he do it? He would break in and he would fall into their to their apartments and then cut screen doors and he'd do it in the summer.

He was, it was same time. The same night or he'd know where they lived and then come back another day. We think the same night, but probably a little bit of that too. He'd meet him out in bars, fall in the home and so he would. And would they think he was normal? When he met him in bars? Yeah, like... Yeah, well he was a handsome, like he had the look of the 70s

and he had a genius level IQ. He graduated from UCLA, I went to NYU Film School. It is quite a story. And now he'd appear on the dating game in the middle of his story. Oh, this is the dating game killer. Okay, and then did he, like, how would he do it? It's like strangler.

He raped them to death in every way. He would use, and then he would strangle them, bludgeon them some of them. One, he murdered with a hammer after raping or with a hammer. Imagine that. And he was brutally sadistic and he came from he went to Cantwell High School. That was in our little world of Catholic private prep schools. Yearbook committee got a varsity letter in cross country. And so then, wait, then he was got

away with it for how long? Well, so he murdered a girl named Robin Samso in 1979. She was 12. And... So then you started doing kids? No, yeah, he was equal opportunity. He raped and attempted to murder a girl in Tel-Aishapiro, who was eight years old in 1968. Goes back to the East Coast, gets away.

Like cops broke his door down, and it was like, saved dying little girl, catch bad guy and they saved the girl. He got to New York. Well, they went in while it was happening. Yeah, there's a good Samaritan called it in. It's an amazing story. Wait, tell the story. Okay. So he is living in Hollywood, graduated from UCLA Film School, picks up an eight year old-old. After he's already killed, right? Really, I'm killed anybody yet that we know of. This is as he's getting started.

This is 1968. Oh, okay. So he, she's walking to school. She's eight back in the days when parents would let eight-year-olds walk to school. Mm-hmm. Get's running in his car. A good smirret and sees this drives her

instead of the school to his house, walks her into his little bungalow in Hollywood. The Good Samaritan finds a pay phone, calls police. The cop who shows up, last name is Kamacho, is a freaking hero, was shot in Vietnam and shot during the Watts riots. His first day back at work, he gets this call for a welfare check, knocks on the door, all calls like, hey, I'm just getting out of the shower. He gives it like two seconds, kicks the door in, finds this little girl who's been raped with,

raped brutally, and there's a barbell on her neck, and she is dying. She's in a coma for 32 days, and he gives, and naked bad guy goes running out of the house, and he renders life saving age to the little girl, saves her life, but'll call it got away, gets to New York, gets somehow gets accepted to the NYU film school, really wanted to be a photographer, uses a fake name and he's on the FBI 10 most wanted list. Because they know who he is because he owned the house or whatever,

or lived in the house. He left all this idea and also inside the house were thousands of photographs of young women, young boys and girls and, you know, in the woods, in rooms with him. Like, nobody knows what happened to any of them. He killed a hundred people, at least. Yeah, because especially back then, it was like so far. Oh, yeah.

And no, D&N, and he's also the way he's doing. He's disposing of bodies and routines. So, then, okay, so then he goes to New York for a while and he's working get this at as at an all girls summer summer camp in Vermont and two of the little campers are getting caught in a rainstorm duck into the post office and they're waiting for the rain to pass and they see Mr. Berger as a waste was John Berger. Mr. Berger is on the FBI 10 most want to listen. All right, maybe we should tell somebody the extra item back to LA. And this is he didn't kill it right at the camp. He didn't kill

anybody the camp that he killed at least three people who we know of in New York and in Vermont areas. Yeah, at least three certainly more, but he eventually was convicted of at least two murders during that time. Okay, so then he comes back to LA. Comes back to LA. So this is a guy who has kidnapped, raped, and attempted to murder an eight-year-old, and he gets a life sentence,

but the DA gave it away for a simple childmellist, but back then it was what's called indeterminate sensing, which is an outrageous prosecutorial decision. I hope the person who made it is a lot of listening. Because they didn't know that he'd kill anyone in New York. Because they sucked. They sucked.

So they let him off. And then the parole board, border prison terms, released him with a life sentence. They released him after 34 months in custody. Now into LA again. Now, until again. And that's where he gets on the dating game. That's where he started killing everybody. That's where he killed all of our own victims.

So we had while getting on the dating game in the middle of his sprees on the dating game. He was given permission to travel cross country and his car. And he killed four in Los Angeles that we convicted him of. And then one in Orange County, he was suspected of I think four or five on these coasts who's convicted of two. He did one in Marin County that was clear to him. Yeah. And then when you were how did you work on it? So so he was convicted and sentenced to death in 1979. Rose bird with the old bird Supreme Court in California and choosing anti-death penalty, Zallette essentially, who would reverse every death penalty case she got.

So reversed it, he gets tried again. I got him, Tom Goldfloss was the prosecutor's second time. He's now in a fellow court justice, really smart, really good prosecutor. Convicts him again, gets another death penalty, goes through the California Supreme Court, then winds up in front of the night circuit, and he gets reversed again,

and it lands on my desk in 2004 for its third retrial. And that was before we had any of the DNA hits in LA. And it was interesting reading like, you know, some of the the opinion on that, it was almost almost as if- How old is he? Did he die? Yeah, he just passed away a couple years ago on death row dementia of all things. Yeah, yeah, it's an amazing story. And it's a cautionary tale to kind of some of the stuff. And so the new work done, you got to go through all that stuff. Right, so I teamed up with a DA named,

Gina Satrano, who I loved a death. And we had that case for probably seven years. And then he wound up representing himself at trial, because he's a psychopath, just like Ted Bundy. They all loved to represent themselves. So I had to like, to deal with this guy and it was fascinating. He'd come in because he's got, he's a genius,

a certifiable genius, super charming, super manipulative and he's representing himself. And, you know, if one juror buys into it, we lose. And he got, got his child in front of this fantastic judge named Francisco Bersenio who is awesome. That was one of those that's one of the stories in the book because the whole awesome. Yeah. Yeah. All right, we're gonna end soon, but what is going on with the the beach serial killer. Yeah, so this is who are men. Yeah, so another kind of another fascinating example of

serial killers. So this guy is you know that, that image that we have that they're somehow abused, like what could make them do it. And the reality is a lot of these guys are born more than they're made. And O'Call was not abused by anybody. This guy also, he is, he had his own architecture firm in Midtown Manhattan. He had a family, he lived in a nice area of Long Island, and he is suspected of 18 different murders. They've charged him right now with three, and these women were bound up in these burlap sacks, and one I will be really interested to see if you're from, you know, the show Dexter, where he was like, he would gown up and make sure that no DNA was right. He was doing, he had to be doing something similar to that because all of these bodies were wrapped in burlap, which is a unique signature, but there's no DNA, no nuclear DNA.

So there's two kinds of DNA. There's nuclear DNA and there's mitochondrial DNA. Do you think that Dexter, the show show may have given people ideas? Maybe, maybe there's a there's a great scene in the departed to or Mark Walberg at the end murders The corrupt cop that was Matt Damon, right? And he's wearing like he's all gloved up and he's got a he's got a hair mask or hair. Yeah hair thing on So you see that now and well written stuff. I don't know. I think that this guy somehow managed not to pass on DNA. And that's fascinating. And you got him with hairs.

And I mean, there were stories done on this. And yes, all these girls were sex workers that a lot of them were called up. And there was one where dropped off and running. And like, weren't there like one or two that survived it or survived him or there was one that yes but there was one in particular that burned them that did what's called a John role where he she she took his money but didn't provide services like had her boyfriend come in and feign and the night before she was murdered it was that's the witness who saw the,

his car, or a car that was matched the description of his car, and he said that, you know, hey, that wasn't a nice thing to do. And then she disappeared the next night, and so, and she was found. So wait, she met him as a John, and then ripped him off. Didn't have sex with him.

Didn't have sex with him. And then the next, and then she disappeared. I think it was the very next night. So, so he found her wherever she was, not necessarily at his house. Yeah. But what's what's every good case is a collage of evidence. Like you never want to just rely on DNA or or just one thing you always want cross-corroborating information. So might the DNA that they got on this guy is, we're from hairs. And hair instead of like, so you've got nuclear DNA or you've got mitochondrial DNA, nuclear DNA is where we get that like one in eight octillion numbers, right? Like that's, they'll, they'll, you'll

hit on every genetic marker. So that's where you come up with these super crazy numbers. The numbers on this are going to be like one in a hundred because it's mitochondrial or myto as they call it. So it's going to be that, I don't know if you, if you're not as good, obviously, it's not as good. So his defense lawyer was out on the courthouse steps going, no competent professional, it's going to say that this is my guy, which is a little bit of a plan words because no matter how, what the numbers are mathematically, the term of art is they cannot be eliminated. That's what the forensics, that's what the numbers are, mathematically, the term of art is they cannot be eliminated. That's what the forensic scientists will say. We cannot eliminate him, even if it's the frequencies like one and eight octillion or made

up numbers. So what's fascinating about the human case is that they're going to have to overlap the cell phone stuff because this guy was so sadistic, he wasn't done just with them. He would actually take some of the victim's cell phones and top their family members. So one of these victims got phone calls from the killer of her sister, saying essentially mocking her and taunting her.

And, but the cell phone, he was doing that as he was on the road. So that cell phone was pinging to towers along with his burner phone that he was using for like dating apps and stuff. And also his personal cell. So they are reeling off the same towers back and forth from his home to Midtown Manhattan, which is even more convincing than the DNA, I think. This is just like a crazy thing, but I saw this on a TikTok where it was years ago

in Howard Stern and Robin were like talking about this case and who this killer might be. And he's like, watch, he's gonna be an architect or something. Did he really? Yes. I mean, it was just a lucky guess, all of his way. But it's like kind of crazy when you actually, because I predict things all the time,

a lot of times my stuff comes true, never to that effect. I was like, wow, that's pretty on the nose. But if you think about it, how it's turned, whether you like them or hate them, he's a super intelligent guy. Right, and he was like, this basically what are you saying is this guy is going to be someone who's walking among us that's like, has a shit together

and that type of thing, not some weird guy from the woods, you know? That, and that's fascinating about true serial killers. Right. They can be in front of you in line in Starbucks and you would never know in a million years. And that's how they get women to get into their cars. That's how they're able to lure people into positions of vulnerability. And they're almost all smart and they've, and almost all are, in my experience, they tend to be spoiled as kids. It's really interesting, not abused, but spoiled. And so it's a bizarre sense of entitlement.

And yeah, yeah, they, I think we're going to see more and more of these as we tack Society-wise towards stuff like Nobel and you know all that sort of soft on crime business that we're seeing in our beloved city of Los Angeles Yeah, that doesn't end well and I think we're gonna we're gonna see more Rex Hurman's more go-go beach guys And this things go forward because had al-Qaula in in the modern era kidnapping an eight-year-old girl, and almost killing her, that guy never should have been released. And the fact that he was cost the lives of probably a hundred people. And I just, I worry because it's been so long since we had like the reign of the serial killers in LA because the Hillside Strangler and Angela Bono, a skid row slasher. We had all of these guys were active at the exact same time

in the late 70s and early 80s. And I fear for all of our safety, these guys will be getting out. Yeah, for some of them. And you can't fix that, either. Of course not. Yeah, they don't get better medication, doesn't work. You think Sarah Killers that are going to get out, they don't get better medication doesn't work. You think Sarah there are

Sarah killers that that are going to get out. They don't have a life sentence you mean? 100 percent. Yes, absolutely. I guarantee it. I mean, there are there are people that are in from murder right now like George Gaskone in Los Angeles County has prohibited his deputies from going in opposing life or release on parole. So the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office right now, as a matter of course, you send a deputy to oppose dangerous murderers from getting out. Gascon has ended that in Los Angeles County. So if it's a murder committed by somebody when they were 18 and they've got all the Jews in them and they've got one of these guys, if they're paroled because it is not opposed by the sitting district attorney of Los

Angeles and they get out, they will absolutely kill again, no doubt. Like, little gangster who does it back in the day, I think a lot of them, the juice is out of them. By the time they're 45, they just want to sit on their couch and watch a lecture game. Like, a lot of them aren't dangerous. Right. And I, that was part of my job for years. I'd go to, I've been to every prison in California that has the lifers. And some of them, um, you actually,

you know, they really don't pose a danger, you know, depending on the circumstances. But these guys, the, they will until, until they stop drawing breath. Like the serial killers, the psychopaths, those guys, if they're in for murder number one, and we're only prevented from pass those guys if they're in for murder number one and we're only prevented from murder two through 25 because they're in prison when they're out they will pick up again. Yeah 100%. Well, well, lock your doors. Not to end on a downer. I'll try to vote correctly.

So do you have any 2020 stuff or anything coming up? Yes, so I got I got so much stuff I'm excited about. A quick, funny story. I mean, they're letting me do a bunch of stuff with news nation, which is a new up and coming. And I've gotten to be friends with a couple of their hosts. One of them is Elizabeth Vargas. Yeah, yeah.

And she's awesome, by the way. She is a phenomenal person. Her whole history is interesting, but she's been really nice to me, and giving me a bunch of live spots on her own. Live TV is a different ballgame. I don't know what camera to look at, and it feels a little bit like a closing argument.

And so last week I'm in New York City, and I've just done her show, and we were talking about, I think we were talking about that Armstrong case, the little runner, if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, I'm at the elevators, and do you know who Ashley Bantfield is? Which little runner, what's your...

The Katelyn Armstrong. Oh, Katelyn Armstrong. Sorry, and then who do you ask me? Yeah. And I'm leaving, and the production assistance walk me out, and Ashley Bantfield, do you know who that is? Yes.

Yes, super famous, like, used to be with NBC, also could not be nicer. and the production assistants walk me out and Ashley Bamfield, you know who that is? Yes. Super famous, like used to be with NBC, also could not be nicer. She comes up to me at the elevator and she's like, she's got her makeup thing around her neck and you know, so she got up out of the chair to come up and she's like, hey, I really enjoy your interviews,

which is hugely flattering to me. And she's like, my name's Ashley. I love it if you came on my show. It's like Ashley, you know, she, it's like, yeah, you're very famous. I would love to do it. So she had me on three times last week. Cool. Yeah, super fun.

So doing a bunch of Icrime stuff with Elizabeth Vargas for her show. Icrime, it's basically videos of the day. And so I've got to do some commentary on that. I got it, I got it, I got it, just shot for a new 2020. Last week I did 14 different interviews last week in New York City for different shows and stuff which is an absolute blast.

And hopefully that keeps going. And helping. No one knew who you were before juicy skips. So good luck. I've got to tell you, the people that have started following me, your fans are so nice. Like, I've got the best, I've gotten the nicest comments. You know, and it's a weird, hateful world on online media.

And everybody that has followed me from your show has just been really, really nice. So I'm super grateful for you. Now, the real juicy skippers are the best and honest and love the people out around my show and are not. So if you ever get some weird psycho, they're not really a juicy skipper. They're pretending to be, to make me look bad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

The real juicy skippers are great. So tell everybody where they can follow you though. Matt Murphy Law on Instagram. And yeah, and I've got, if anybody's interested in the book, that'll be, it's a glacial age before it's actually going to come out right now. They're telling me, Well, you know what's good about this?

You know, you got to be strategic. Like, I'm like, right now, there's like three or four books out that would is in the juicy scoop world. There's Britney coming next week. There's Julia Fox, there's Jada Pinkett Smith. I want to say there's like another one. And like, I'm like, God, I would not want my book to be coming out this week. So it's good about you with a good publisher, they'll make sure that your book is not going to be competing with

anything remotely similar. Hopefully. And that's where it's going to be. Yeah, and I'm not complaining. They've treated me great, but it's just I want to, I'm super eager. I want people to read it. Well, what I think would be is great is, especially your story, like it could totally be a movie, it could be a series, it could be whatever. So I think that's why there's no rush. That's always so great about a book. It's like the, it's the ultimate calling card. Like, even if something doesn't have, even if it's a hit and nothing happens for,

and you're like, oh, I guess all those meetings, nothing happen. You don't know that in like five years, 10 years, all of a sudden, you know, and that's what's so great about it. Yeah. Putting all the time and effort into it, it's like you have this piece of property,

just like a piece of real estate, it can be sold later on. Yeah, plus it's just, for me, it's been, it's been fascinating to write it. Like just going back and I kept journals for all this. Oh wow, that's great. I'm going through reading old journal entries and it's mostly that's like,

stony thoughts in my head, like, you know, I should probably be committed after people actually to read what I wrote, but it's like watching an autopsy, the stuff that would go through my head, you know. So I think I hopefully people will like it. And I will. It's more personal than I originally set out for it to be.

So. I think it's great. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully. Matt Murphy, what's your Insta? Matt Murphy law. Great. Matt Murphy law. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.