Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Real Housewife of Miami Lisa Hochstein and Smear Campaigns

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Before my juicy interview with Lisa Hochstein, I cover the latest on Diddy, Karen Read, Blake Lively and Jax and Brittany on the Valley. Plus, I uncovered an online smear campaign on Tik Tok! Then Real Housewife of Miami Lisa Hochstein is here! We get into how she met her now ex husband Lenny and his shocking betrayal all caught on a hot microphone. She addresses the swinging allegations and those infamous Halloween parties. She shares about her app which is so valuable for anyone going through a divorce or considering one. We also got to talk to her boyfriend and get the real scoop on what it is like to date a real housewife while she’s filming and going through a horrible divorce. So juicy! -Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to ⁠https://Zocdoc.com/JUICY⁠ to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today -Go to ⁠⁠https://MeUndies.com/juicyscoop⁠⁠, code juicyscoop for 20% off, plus free shipping. -Find exactly what you’re booking for. Booking.com, Booking.YEAH! Book today on the site or in the app. Go to ⁠⁠https://Booking.com⁠⁠ -You can get a 30-day free trial PLUS 25% off your annual subscription when you go to ⁠⁠https://DipseaStories.com/JUICYSCOOP⁠⁠ -Go to ⁠⁠https://legacybox.com/JUICY⁠⁠ to get 50% off today.  Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TikTok: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Thank you for supporting me. The best way to do that is to head over to HeatherMcDonell.net because I have exclusive limited edition special merch because Juicy Scoop is celebrating 10 years. It's also my birthday this week, June 14th. So if you want to give me a little gift, head over there. And also, why don't you look into the almost 900 episodes of Patreon that I have done. If you've not already joined, you go to heatherydonnell.net, check out the Patreon, check out the Heather McDonald shop and make your life even better. On this episode, I'm going to do some updates of some hot topics, some new ones. And then

I have a great interview with Lisa from Real Housewives of Miami, which just aired their latest season. She hints at what we're going to see in the season. We talked to her boyfriend, which we got a lot of questions for him. And she really gives valuable information, especially if you are in a bad marriage, going through divorce, very valuable. But we also get the juicy questions about the housewives. So first, let me just get into a couple things. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by booking.com, booking.yeah. From vacation rentals to hotels across the US,

booking.com has the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. I'm talking about a big family, maybe even a family reunion. You need to have a place for the kids to enjoy, like a fun pool. You want to have that great spa. Well, Booking.com has it all. So even if your family is difficult to please, they can find it.

Find exactly what you're booking for, booking.com, booking.yeah, book today on the site or in the app. Think you know everything about The Bachelor? Think again. Dive into the Reality Steve podcast, your ultimate insider for all things Bachelor Nation. From juicy spoilers and behind the scenes drama,

to candid chats with former contestants, I'll deliver the scoop you You won't hear anywhere else. Every day new episodes drop daily packed with unfiltered takes. And on Thursday's episode, I'll have exclusive interviews. Don't just watch the drama, understand it. Subscribe now to the reality Steve podcast and stay ahead of the Rose ceremony. Let's clear this up right now. Bros love reality TV. You may think it's all sports all the time,

but have you ever noticed your boyfriend or husband in the background while you're trying to wind down and enjoy the housewives? Oh, I know the type. They linger in the back of the room and ask questions, offer their opinions, but when you ask them to take a seat and watch with you, suddenly they're not interested.

Well, here at Bros and Shows, we are tired of perpetuating that dudes don't love reality TV because guess what? We do. And it's time we erase the stigma that comes with it. And we cover it all from Real Housewives to The Bachelor, from Vanderpump Rules to The Traders, and we're ready to give you our takes.

We aren't here to step on any toes. We just want to join the conversation. Bros and Shows, a podcast from the bros for everyone, for whoever wants to listen. Okay, you guys, I know I gave a controversial take on what might have happened with the Karen Reed case. And I said, maybe, you know, after being beat up at the party, maybe he did stumble out and somehow have contact with the car. Well, after yesterday's testimony, I have changed my mind, which is why people have trials, which is why people watch the whole thing if you're on the jury and then deliberate for hopefully days or not, depending on what you want the outcome to be. I did say on my last episode, I don't think she should be convicted of anything because there's

way too many questions. It's definitely beyond a reasonable doubt. It is absolutely so much doubt. definitely beyond a reasonable doubt. It is absolutely so much doubt. So, they had an expert on the defense, this doctor and Dr. La Pazado, I hope I'm saying it right, but she was just a badass. And she lightly said, I've been doing this, you know, she's like probably a woman in her sixties. I've been doing this my entire career, figuring out, you know, impact of car accidents on bodies and all this. And there was not any broken bones. And she just was emphatic about saying, he just was not hit with a car. He died from blunt, traumatic hits to the head. That is what he died from,

not ever being hit from a car because he never was hit by a car. So, that, I mean, was pretty profound. She teaches in this everything. And if that is in fact true, what I said two days ago makes the guys in the home and the women way more culpable because that means according to her, either he died in the house and they threw him out in the snow or they beat him so badly that he stumbled out into the snow and then fell and died. But when you get into all the other evidence of what the temperature was of the body, it's very hard. So, now there is rumors going around that Higgins, No Neck Higgins, who was the guy that she was flirting with, and you know, there's so many rumors about this group of people being swingers that the bars that they attended were swinger type bars, that he is maybe going to make some type of deal. That's just the

rumors that are going around because after so much has been exposed, will they ever investigate them? It's crazy. It's juicy. And I can't wait for the movie. And I love when people are like casting all the different characters down from the judge that I think they're calling Aunt Bev, that, you know, the people that are pro-Karen Reed are definitely don't think that she is being non-biased. They definitely think she's being biased. So that's what's going on. So yeah, I changed my mind because I saw some compelling testimony. So there you go. Also in the P Diddy trial, well, my God.

So this Jane Doe who dated him after Cassie and she dated P Diddy from like anywhere between like 21 all the way up to April of 2025 is when she stopped talking to his attorneys, but was with him this whole time. Her stories are, you know, very disturbing, but some of the interesting things are that she and P. Diddy's favorite show was Dateline. And she was doing these freak offs and having sex with these men to please him and to comfort him and make him feel safe that he was into this weird shit. Like I wanted to protect him because it's weird shitty like. I guess they're basketball fans because part of their fantasy was they would change their names. She was Kobe. The hired Jiggalo, if you will,

or twerker man was always Shaq. And then Sean Diddy Combs got to be Jordan. So, I mean, what I think she's saying is that he was, you know, into seeing this happen, into seeing men perform and all of that. So, maybe him really realizing if the world knew, they would see him in a different light. So, she was like, I'm going to provide this for you because I love you so much. But at a certain point, she wrote him or left a voice audio message saying, I'm not a foreign star. I've been doing this for three years. My body is exhausted. I'm not a foreign star. I've been doing this for three years. My body is exhausted. I'm not a performer. It means something to me. I don't have these people anymore. And because of some of them were so gross is why she then went and was like, all right,

I will hire the escorts. At least I can get one to like take a shower before he has to show up. I don't know. She went to Vegas one time when they were on a break and ended up at a party where she saw one of her former guys that she had to have sex with. And at that party, there was going on where people were watching the same guy. Several of the people that have been seen as the male sex workers were part of a Showtime show called Jiggalos, which followed male escorts and their life in Las Vegas on Showtime many years ago. And it was as cheesy and gross as you thought, but I was watching it. So, she then was with him when they found out his son came in and was

like, oh my God, you got to see this. And that was when the whole Cassie story broke. And when she read that lawsuit from Cassie, she told him, I feel told Diddy, I feel like I'm reading my own stories. The similarities, as we know from the testimony, is exactly the same thing. He just replaced Cassie with her. And he also saw all these other women, which also, because she said, I was in love with him, I did love him, I would get jealous. And I'm like, I thought I'm the only one doing this. I'm doing all this gross shit. Like, what do you mean you're seeing other women and whatever? And that is the one time when she accused him of cheating that, maybe not the one time, but the time she describes in which then it got very physical in that he physically abused her, but she also said I punched him as well. And, you know, she seems to be very truthful, but in doing so, kind of helping

his case a little bit in my opinion. As far as the public opinion of thinking, you know, she was a willing participant. The defense says, how old were you when you met him? 35. She said again, my baby daddy, my ex-boyfriends is a rapper and they don't get along. And at one point, one of the escorts threatened to expose a video of her having that one of these freak offs and, you know, put it out so her ex would see it and the whole world would see it because the escort had it on his phone. Diddy filmed it on the escort's phone and the escort had it. So there was a lot of that blackmailing fear going on that this would get out. And here now she sits completely exposed in a federal case. It's crazy. You know, a lot of people have been saying that she is the ex of 50 Cent. I think he denied it. I'm not sure. But, you know, again, she wasn't

making a lot of money being this girlfriend that was, you know, also having sex with, you know, three to four other men a week. She was only getting 10,000 a month. He put her, she was, you know, a single mom. So I don't know, maybe this rapper isn't him. Cause I can't imagine her not having more money than that. That he was put $20,000 towards her business, which was a clothing business. And throughout the relationship, she said he maybe gave her 150,000. Again, I don't think that's that great. You were there with him for years and providing this whole other lifestyle for him to participate

in. So, there's still so much more. I was trying to like catch it all, but that is the crazy stuff. And then she said at one point she got him a gift. She got him a little like a TV on a roller so they could watch Dateline and not have to, you know, have with three other people. And she's like, can we just watch a juicy crime? Like, that's all I want to do with you. And like, you know, yeah, if she met him at 35, now she's probably close to 40. Like, yeah. Who wants to do a freak off? And you're a mom? I mean, my God. Anyway, so there's that. Oh, I want to tell you

the craziest thing that I found. So I'm on TikTok, okay? And I see this weird video of someone talking like almost in a documentary style to the camera. And over the top of the video, it says, Leah Remini and her daughter were the worst or something. And it's this girl, woman, who sounds like at one time she was a housekeeper for them saying that, you know, they were very, very messy. It took a whole separate staff to clean up Leah's mess every day and they never had any time off.

And even though she had a cappuccino machine in her room, she would ask for a cappuccino to be made for her while she laid in her bed, Leah Remini. At 10 PM, this poor woman was forced to do this. And then she's talking about the daughter. The daughter was four, color on furniture. And I'm like, what is this? The daughter's like, I think in college now. I'm like, this is such a weird thing. So then I look at it again. and then there's this other video talking about what an awful person Tom DeVocht is. I'm like, who is Tom DeVocht or whatever his name is? And I'm like, I bet this is a site created by Scientology to make ex-Scientologists look bad. Let me just see. And I typed in, was Tom DeVocht a former Scientologist? Yes, he was. Well,

guess what? There's a bunch of people on this site too. It's called Vetted Facts saying, oh, he was a rude to a waiter. He, you know, sent back his food. And then the next video is Leah Remini. I hated having dinner with Leah Remini. I'm a former friend and it was just so awkward. She was just like wouldn't look the waiters in the eye. All this kind of bullshit. And it's just so obvious. So I just wanted to tell you about it. It's ridiculous. And I believe it popped up because I think she's on the cover of a magazine still talking about Scientology and she's been away from it for 12 years. So, very interesting. Brooklyn Beckman of, you know, David Beckman's oldest son. He apparently is not going to be there when his dad gets his knighthood. He wasn't there for the 50th birthday. He has three brothers and a sister, no two, well yeah, two brothers and

a sister. And he apparently and his wife are not talking to any of them, which is really sad. I can't imagine what the family is going through. And, you know, of course everyone's going to point the finger, you know, at the daughter-in-law and maybe that's the case, but it's just a very hard thing when that happens, whether you're the most famous, rich, best looking family in the world or you're just living, you know, in middle America, but it happens. Okay. Also, Alison Mack, remember that weirdo? She went to prison for recruiting women to be abused in the NXIVM cult.

And she was an actress on like Smallville. Anyway, she's getting married. Yeah, she can find a husband. I don't know why you can't. Just kidding. Anyway, anyone can see you get married if you're a little bit famous and in prison. The Valley. Let's wrap up with The Valley before our interview.

Okay. Wow. Poor Brittany is really going through it. Also be aware, this was all filmed like nine months ago. It's when she goes to the attorney and she does fill out the paperwork to file and she does this a day before Jax is set to get out of the rehab place. So, to make her feel better, they go, let's have one fun night at Jax and they cover the Jax sign with like a sheet that says Brits and they actually get a big lit sign that says Brits and they all get the same Jax shirts printed but with Brits. And she's like, oh my God, you guys, this is so nice. Oh my God. I think, I don't know. I would hope that Jax would find it was funny. And everyone's like, oh my God, you guys, this is so nice. Oh my God. I think, I don't know.

I would hope that Jax would find it was funny. And everyone's like, I don't think he would find it funny, but okay. But we're all on her side. He stopped paying the mortgage. And their deal was I pay the mortgage, you pay all the other bills, which seems like a pretty fair thing. But the mortgage started at $8,000. He, as this was all in the news, owed $1.2 million in back taxes. So, they did like a loan on the house with that. So, the mortgage went up to $17K,

which he was going to be responsible for since it was his thing. She also said that the government took 100,000 from her bank account being that she was his spouse. So, she really, you know, thank God is so well liked and has such a bright future as an influencer and a young mom because, you know, he has with all this lost the podcast to her. I don't know how many people are listening to the podcast. I don't know what's going to happen with this restaurant. Hopefully people are still going, you know, so that she gets the money. I said this before, this is the only way that Jax is going to keep it going and be that likable character again, if at all possible, is he needs to find another Brittany. He needs to find another wonderful girlfriend who is so lovely to little

cruise and maybe, you know, the exchange of it is sure she likes to be on TV, but she loves him and it's his second chance. And Brittany loves her around her kid and feels like she's a good buffer. And so she's grateful. Sometimes when you divorce a horrific guy, the greatest gift is when they get another woman and that woman has to deal with them. And you and the women get along and you're like, thank God, I don't have to directly talk to him. So that is what I'm putting out in the universe to save this family and also keep them all making money and keeping them being our entertaining selves. That would be that he would have to, you know, change as far as how he's now. I see him in the

after show and he's like, I never speak badly about Brit. You know, I'm just trying to move forward. I made these mistakes. I'm da da da da da. The after show is really juicy. But then we see, you know, again, it was nine months ago, but as he was leaving the rehab right before it gets revealed that he had lied to Brittany and his sister and said that he was having a heart attack and that he was on his way to the ER.

And then he told the woman at the front desk of the rehab place, if anybody calls for me, say that I'm at the ER having a heart attack. And she is, you know, brought to tears because he's so, you know, like he just doesn't stop, just like you see the rage texts. He doesn't stop when he's talking to you. So, that was completely not true. If you remember when he was on the villains, House of Villains, he said that Brittany had a stroke and she's like, what? I did not have a stroke, Jack. So, he's very comfortable lying which is always fascinating to me. Like when you have to lie about things that, you know. I remember when I had him

on my show, he's like, oh, he was doing, I guess House of Villains or something else. And he was like, yeah, everyone just hated me because all I did was, you know, talk about my beautiful wife and how much I love my beautiful wife. And I remember going, wow, that's really nice, but it didn't seem real to me. I was like, I don't know that he walks around and just talks about his beautiful wife all the time, but maybe he does. You know, sometimes guys that are horrible to their women are very nice about them when they're not around and brag about them because it's an extension of their narcissistic self.

My wonderful kids, my fabulous wife, even though then when they're in the house, he's a nightmare. So all very juicy and all she can do is just, she's got to laugh about it. And I say, good for you. Let me see if there, what else I was going to talk about. Oh, Blake Lively, latest on the Blake Lively. Now listen people, when I said Blake Lively won, yeah, it was a huge win for her. I don't care what you say, it's a huge win that the judge threw out this lawsuit. Huge win for the New York Times or whatever the paper was as well. However, Justin Valdoni's attorney, Brian

Friedman, who's very powerful, said to TMZ, let's pray that she does not drop her lawsuit pray that she does not drop her lawsuit claiming that she was harassed on the set of It Ends with Us. He actually doesn't want her to drop that lawsuit because by having the lawsuit, he has, he can depose Blake and ask her about all these falsehoods that she has said and done and also at that same time, I guess, try to prove even more nefarious things that she and Blake have done. I predict she will drop the lawsuit for that exact reason because once she does drop that lawsuit and they continue to try to go after these two other things, these two other lawsuits that they can still pursue, which I'm not totally aware of. I do think at a certain point the public is going to be like, we're over this story, you know? They got over the

Tom Girardi story, you know, who's going now to do his seven years in prison. If he finally got sentenced, you know what? The Bravo world, we weren't that into it, you know? It's like, okay, fine. We knew that was coming. We accept the pretty mess. Hopefully, she'll share more about her life. Hopefully, she'll get a real boyfriend that we can see. Who knows? But when people lose interest, same thing happened with the Menendez brothers, the second case. Second trial, people had lost interest and they weren't fighting for their innocence as much publicly. So, I don't know. But if I was Blake's attorney, I'd definitely say drop it. And then hopefully for her it'll end. For people that are fans of Justin, I

know they want justice for him and they want the truth to get out. I think we really see who Blake and Ryan are. But again, people forget he's got Deadpool. You really think a 15-year-old boy cares about this shit? No. If he does another Deadpool, it'll still be a hit in my opinion, in my prediction. All right, you guys. Let's get into this exciting interview. You're gonna love it. Even if you're not familiar with The Real Housewives of Miami, this is a story of a young woman, Lisa, who fell in love with a powerful plastic surgeon, got on reality TV, he cheated on her, it was caught on camera, and everything that she's done to rebuild

her life. And I think you're going to really see a juicy, interesting side to her story that is sadly relatable, whether you know someone or it's you. Here we go for the juice with Lisa from the Real Housewives of Miami. Have you ever woken up with a weird symptom, like a swollen itchy eye and you're like, is that pink eye? I don't know what that is. And you don't really know where to begin. That's why I love ZocDoc.

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of booking, you can score the same day appointment, which when you're not feeling well, you wanna get in as soon as possible. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com slash juicy to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash juicy, zocdoc.com slash juicy. Ladies, it's time that you break up with your old uncomfortable undies and bralettes. Okay, spring is here and that means fresh starts starting with me

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Spring into comfort with MeUndies. Support the show by going to meundies.com slash Juicy Scoop and using my code JUICYSCOOP to get 20% off your first order. Plus free shipping. That's meundies.com slash JUICYSCOOP code JUICYSCOOP for 20% off plus free shipping. MeUndies. Comfort from the outside in. This episode of Juicy Scoop is brought to you by Booking.com Booking.Yeah! From vacation rentals to hotels across the U.S., Booking.com has the ideal summer stay for absolutely anyone, even those who might seem impossible to please. I'm talking about a big family, maybe even a family reunion.

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book today on the site or in the app. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm so excited to talk to my guest, Real Housewives of Miami, Lisa Hochstein. Welcome to Juicy Scoop. It's great to see you. We've hung out in the past and this, you know, hopefully we'll get to hang out in person in the future,

but I'm so glad you're coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Finally, you know, this is my first official podcast. I think, I mean, I've done stuff for Bravo, but this is my first podcast talking about all things Lisa. Well, I know because I remember we were like DMing and it was a while ago, like a year and a half ago, and you were like, I'm ready to come on. I'm like, yeah, girl, I'm ready to have you on. But so much has happened in your life.

And it's a very juicy life. And for people that don't follow Real Housewives in Miami, I think your story is one that women especially, but anybody truly married, can really benefit from, especially if you're going through divorce with kids. And what's crazy is we really got to see this journey of your life unfold because Miami, when you joined the first time was like what 15 years ago? Yeah I would say 2010, 2011. Is when we first saw you with the original cast you guys did how many seasons three or four?

We did three. Three and then there was like an eight-year break. A very long long. A lot happened. And then you've come back and now this is like the third season is coming up for us to enjoy on Bravo. That's coming up on the 11th. The seventh season. And that'll be the seventh season. So the first three count and then this is like the fourth of the new season.

We should be on season 18, honestly. Yeah, really. But okay, so I want to get a little bit about you. What was your life before you met your ex-husband and how did you guys meet? My life before my ex-husband. I was very young when I met him. In today's world, I would consider me getting married very young. I was married at 27.

Yeah, 27. And we met when I was about 24, turning 25. And he was, how old was he when you met him at 25? He's 16 years older than me. So, yeah. So it would have been like early 40s, yeah. Yeah, early 40s. He was Yeah. Early 40s. He was never married, no kids. I thought it was going to be perfect. We met in Las Vegas at a pool party.

I had just broken up with a guy I was dating, a realtor, his name was John. Dated that guy for about two years. I was going traveling back and forth from Toronto where I grew up when I was born in Toronto. And I was driving the four hour drive, going to auditions, booking modeling gigs, going back to Toronto. So I was kind of all over the place. I had just broken up with my ex.

I was at a pool party in Las Vegas when they were actually cool. When they were cool. And yeah, and I met him there. He was very, very shy. And a couple weeks later, he messaged me on MySpace. Wow. Yeah. Remember those days. Yeah. Like ancient times. Messaged me on MySpace and was very polite and asked if, he thought, he said, you're very beautiful. I would love to, you know, see you again and whatever else. And I kind of ignored the message. And then I happened to be in Miami for the infamous Halloween party. And we went on a date and then went to the Halloween party.

And then we were together. So then you guys go went to the Halloween party. And then we were together. So then you guys go to this infamous Halloween party. So this was a party that was always going on, but then eventually you guys as a couple ended up posting it. Like take me through the Halloween history. The first one I went to, I think was maybe his second Halloween party. He had just moved into our Sunset Island house

and he wanted to have this big party because that's what people were doing back then. They were having parties, house parties. So we met there, well we had a date and then we were at that party and then I never left. And then I was moved, he moved me in, he asked me to move in and that was like two months later, seven months after the day we met, he proposed and two years or about two years after the day we met, we were married. And how like, initially, this is such like a whirlwind of like romance, and you're in this beautiful house, and you're young, and he's a plastic surgeon. I mean, every, you know, one thing to marry a doctor, but plastic surgeon, you know, that's

an extra bonus for the girl. How did like, how did your family and friends feel about it? Did anyone have any reservations or? Oh, everybody, everything was great in the beginning. Like, it was a fairy tale, you know? It was wonderful and really no issues. Everybody was happy for us.

And so then how many years into the marriage were you approached to possibly do Real Housewives of Miami? And how did that go about? So we met in 2007, married in 2009. And about a year after that or two years after that, 2011, I believe we started filming. And when it came to you, were you a fan of The Housewives? Had you ever thought like, you know what, when you'd watch reality TV,

like I could see myself doing that or, I mean, cause you had already been like kind of in that modeling entertainment world. So what was your relationship with reality TV before you decided to be a star yourself? Yeah, you know, of course, I have watched them. You know, I think a lot of the women that say they have never watched it, I think they're lying. I agree.

I mean, why would you go on a show that you've never seen before? I mean, it just, I think there's a lot of liars out there. So I did watch the shows and yeah, I was like, I could probably do that. It's almost like a soap opera and I always wanted to be on a soap opera. So there was no, so is it all positive? Like you and your husband at the time didn't think like, well, we are exposing ourselves or no, this will be great.

Like it'll be fun. We can advertise the, you know, the plastic surgery center. That's it. Well, that was it. He said to me, he said, if we're going to do this, you're going to promote the plastic surgery center. And I said, of course, because you know, you obviously have to promote something like you can't just, I don't know if I'd want to go on a show and just give it all up

and not get anything in return. So yeah, that was kind of the, that was the goal. And to see what else could come out of it. I did actually launch a skincare line the last year of filming. And then that got put on ice because we separated then, you know, at the end of 2013, we separated and then got back together. Oh, okay.

That's what I don't think we really know. So we see you the first part back in those years when it was like Leah Black and the original cast. And at that time, as a viewer, it seemed like everything was great. You were, you know, young, you had, you were trying to get pregnant, you know, it seemed like a really like, you know, on the same page kind of a relationship. So when the show then went on pause for eight years, what happened in your relationship that caused you to separate, which we did not see because you weren't filming. Right, it happened right after, I think,

the last reunion era when Joanna Krupa was still on the show. Uh-huh. And it was on also. That's when it happened, right after that. And we were separated for all about maybe two months, a month, maybe two. And we were separated for all about maybe two months, a month, maybe two. And we quickly resolved everything. And for that, I'm grateful because if not, I would not have had my Logan and Elle.

So very happy that that happened. And then it was just me busy raising the kids. That was one of the story lines. They were focusing on, you know, the house, the Star Island house. We finally got the permits to knock it down and rebuild. And so a lot happened that the show was following. And when we were off air, all of that happened.

You know, the kids, the house, the med spa, you know, all of that. So then cut to, we're watching it, you have your two young children, and you do say, after you guys come back from filming with the new cast at that reunion, that you were, that the marriage was not in a great place. And I remember that was sort of like the first time we like heard you ever really say that or reveal it.

And was there any hesitation in sharing that at the reunion? Did you think it through or did you plan on it? You know, you really don't have much of a choice on these shows. You gotta tell it or you could possibly lose your job. I mean, you have to be authentic and you have to say your truth. And that happened. A lot of people did know about it. It would have came out anyway. So I'd rather me tell the story than other people tell the story.

And at that time, what was the reason you gave? I can't remember. Was it that he had an emotional affair or texting or what was it? You know, I'll never know exactly what actually happened. Only he will know and whoever else that was would know. But I was sleeping in the other room trying to figure out my life. Apparently it was emotional affair, who knows? Yeah. I guess I'll never know. So I guess you'll never know. So then you come back and we're watching and it is amazing what a reality show will catch in the dynamics of a marriage.

Yeah. Which was very obvious that you were trying very hard, trying to connect again. But then as a long time viewer of these shows, sometimes I do give the husbands the benefit of the doubt cause I'm like, maybe they just don't like filming this anymore. Maybe they thought it'd be more fun

and now maybe they don't appreciate that their wife is famous. They don't appreciate that they are getting their own thing, and they're like annoyed that the cameramen have been setting up for an hour, they're waiting to do the stupid breakfast scene. Like, I get all of that. So sometimes I'm like, are we seeing a real thing,

are we seeing the causation of, you know, production? What were you feeling as you were filming these things? Did you realize it was as bad as it was? No, I actually didn't. Maybe I'm just used to Lenny and him being maybe dismissive. Maybe that's not great to say out loud. Yeah. But Lenny has, Lenny's different.

But I really didn't think we were headed to divorce for real. Like, yeah, we fought, like we were together for, I don't know, what, 15 years almost. So we've had the ups and downs and we've had the threats of like, ah, we want to, we want to divorce on both sides. But then it was never real. It was almost like, like an we want to divorce on both sides. But then it was never real. It was almost like an empty threat.

Yeah. So it wasn't, there wasn't ever any real thought of us getting a divorce. I mean, it was a shock to me, honestly. Well, I mean, when we saw, when we saw like the hot mic moment where he is mic'd, you guys are getting ready for a party, and he reveals, tells, is talking to another man.

Wasn't that it? And he kind of was like, well, I almost feel like I'm gonna leave her, I'm almost feeling like I'm cheating on my girlfriend with my wife or something. Like is that what it was something like that. I mean, did he really forget that he was Mike? I saw that for the rest of the world. I didn't know about that. I didn't know. I got a little warning, you know, the day before that episode came out, I got a little phone call. So everybody knew except for me.

I mean, on the other side, but it was really hard to watch because, you know, of course, my feelings were hurt. And that's still like, it stung. No matter what, how long had I was with Jody watching that episode actually and I was crying like he was he was feeling bad for me because that that is really hard to hear when you don't know that you know divorce is literally right around the corner and you know a week before that I think we were talking about having a third child so we were talking about having a third child a week before that. You know, he came to support me at the Smile.

We had a charity for the Smile training and that actually didn't get aired, but he came to support me. We went to dinner. Everything was fine. We actually went to a birthday party that same after that hot mic moment. We went to a birthday party that same evening and hot mic moment, we went to a birthday party that same evening and holding hands, kissing, doing all the stuff, you know, photos. It was a good vibes party. I was having the time of my life. I was just dancing, happy. My kids were involved.

I thought he looked happy. Had no idea that that was a conversation with one of my friends, and had no idea that that was a conversation with one of my friends, one of my good friends also. And then nobody told me. And the way it was said was just like... It was crazy. Like I can see it in my head. It was so... I didn't know he had another life, you know, because that's what it sounded like. Yeah. Okay. So that happens. And you aren't aware that that happened on film. You continue to go, like you said, have fun on and off camera with him. And then when was it revealed that, no, I am, we are separating because I am in love with someone else? Two days after that scene, it was March 27th, 2022.

I remember all the dates. And how did he tell you? So you think things are okay on the mend? You're planning a future together? Yeah, he was acting really extra cold. And then I asked him, I go, is everything okay? He's like, no, I just, I don't want it. It's done. It's over. I want a divorce. It's like very cold. I'm like, whoa, what? Yeah, so I just, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, Whoa, what? Yeah, so I just, I couldn't believe it. I'm like, No, just really, I'm like, let's talk about this. This worked this out. What do

you mean you want to divorce? What's happening? You know, trying to get all of the information and Mike, we're also filming like, is this a joke? We're in the middle of the season. Like, I have to go back. What am I gonna say? What am I gonna do? I'm thinking so many thoughts. Like, what am I gonna do? Where am I? What's gonna happen to the kids and us?

It was just a lot to take in. So when he said it, it wasn't on camera. But then when you go to the other, like you had like a little girls trip at like the beach. Yeah. And then when you show up and you tell them and that moment, which really was, I mean, horrible for you but like such kind of a great moment for the cast

that really gathered around. And I loved like the anger. It really valued, everybody came to the anger. It really rallied. Everybody came to the corner. And then like Alexia being like, I knew it. You know, with the accent. There was something very empowering about it in such a real moment because sometimes as someone that's been a fan of Real Housewives from the very beginning, you know, there's

certain things that have lost authenticity along the way just because the people that are on the show have been watching them for 15 years and they do start to perform or believe they have to bring something that it doesn't exist or the cast is more casted and it's not real friends or whatever. So that moment where they really gathered around you and you were just like broken and just spilling the beans. It was like, I mean, that was, you know, so just so real. It was honestly, I was hiding this and trying, I didn't know how long I could hide it for. I wanted to quit the show when it happened. I just didn't want to. I wanted to quit the show when it happened. I just didn't want to, I was in a really obviously understandably

a very dark, dark place. They were trying to get me to film. I'm like, I can't, I'm feeling sick. I can't, I can't. We did a couple of scenes at the house. We had just put our dog down, the boxer, because he had a medical issue that just we couldn't fix at the end.

So we tried our best, had to put him down. And we had to film a scene with the kids and to talk about that. And I was it myself and everyone knew the producers, everybody was like, something's off. And I just didn't want to tell anybody. I finally had to tell them I didn't want to go on the cash trip. They're like, you have to go. This is part of, this is our job, you know? I'm like, I can't, I'm sorry, I can't. And I remember one of the producers

who I'm very, very close to literally had to come and like almost lift me off of the floor and like help me throw some stuff in a suitcase. I'm like, I can't do this. And then I went, cause I had to go. It's part of my contract, I had to go. Yeah. You know?

And now like I'm, what am I gonna do? I just didn't know what to do. I was so confused. And was there any time, now obviously, couple of few years later, which I just was saying this on my Patreon the other day, I said, you know, out of all my friends that have gotten divorced, it can be horrible.

But I said, I don't know anybody that three years later isn't in a better place. I don't know what those three years are going to be like, but like every single person I know is like, thank God it happened. You know, sure, I have some regrets along the way or not, but like three years later, like so obviously you're in a much better place. You've been with your current fiance now for a few years. Yeah, boy. But I just wonder, like, were there any moments in just, you know, not believing it's true that did you have any regrets of, like, maybe if I had never become a public figure,

maybe if I had never brought cameras into the home, maybe this, did you ever think anything like that? No, I think it would have happened without, with or without the cameras. Yeah. For sure, like, you know, the parties didn't help all of the eyes on our life. You know, there's a lot of, you know, a certain type of woman female that like is attracted to Miami and those parties. And I didn't I didn't love those parties.

So how often would the parties happen that you guys would host? Where it was just like Halloween party was the most important one. And I never loved them because I just didn't want to be a part of my husband communicating with all of these, you know, 20 something single women having to invite them. I thought that was weird. I'm like, can't we just like, maybe have your office do the inviting or maybe have a joint page, which actually he has now with his ex, Beyonce, where we can both kind of communicate and do the invites. They have someone at his office running the invitation lists. What was the point? Was it a profitable party? Was it to PR for the plastic surgery or was it just fun?

Oh, in the beginning when I was doing it with him at the Old House, I incorporated charities like Make-A-Wish. I love Make-A-Wish, the Humane Society. We made over a quarter of a million dollars, I think. We would raise money for that. Everything was open bar. But wait, I just have a question. So how would you raise the money? Like people would want to come to the hottest party of the year and therefore the tickets would be $500 a person and then they could go or how? Just whatever donation and we would have the actual make-a-wish volunteers. I had nothing to do with them, Scott brought them in. I just opened my home up with Make-A-Wish,

and I had their people come in and collect the money. So Make-A-Wish or Humane Society. And we raised a lot of money. But then my ex didn't wanna do that because it was just inviting just anybody. So he didn't wanna do that anymore. I wanted to do it, but he didn't want to do that because it was just inviting just anybody. So he didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted to do it, but he didn't want to continue to make it more exclusive, I guess. So that was more exclusive. And Halloween is always a slutty time. So, you know, dressing scantily on Halloween is nothing that is of suspect. But is it because of these like sexy

Halloween parties that you guys would have that the rumors began that you guys were swingers? Yeah. You know, that was so strange to me because I am not that. I don't do that. But yeah, that was rumor for many, many, many years because of these scantily clad women all over the house. They were single. Some of them were porn stars. There was a lot of like OnlyFans girls. And you know, I get why people would would think that understandably, but I believe it, you

know, it brought in a lot of business for Lenny, you know, like, yeah, he did get a lot of business through this, I guess, networking party. And so then in that, that is where he met the woman who he got engaged to and then they broke up, but are they back together now? I've seen, where are they now, him and the current girl? They're not together. They're not, okay. They're looking up for maybe

the third, fourth, fifth time. I don't know. But I think the initial time it's over for now. What the future holds. Yeah. But and then so that we got to see there was a little bit of talk among the girls that they were at parties and they would either see them together or see her and were like, oh my God, how do we warn you? I mean, were you ever scared that maybe somehow like she would try to weasel her way onto the show? I think that that was the goal all along. I think that she saw an opportunity

and she wanted to be famous. I think she was on The Hills, maybe? She was on that show as... Oh my God. No, wait, I think you were, you're right. Because when I was interviewing Spencer Pratt, who's a good friend of mine, like a few years ago, he's like, no, we know that girl. The Jenner son. Brody. She was married too, by the way. She was married, had a boyfriend, and was fully trying to get on that show. Yeah. So there was something that she, yeah, was talking to them.

Clops chaser. Yeah. And so in the time that they were together and with your two kids, obviously they got to spend time with her. And was that okay? I don't know how much I should comment on that, but for me it was not okay for many, many reasons. Yes.

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So tell us about the app a little bit and how it works for people. I'm actually going to even show you the app. And actually we are launching tomorrow, which is super exciting. My have, my team and I have worked on this for the last year and a half. It's been a lot of work and I'm super proud of it. And I think it's gonna help so many women, so many people. I wish I had it when I was going through my divorce. I think it would have saved me so much money,

so much pain, anxiety, and just helped me understand my documents, understand how to choose a lawyer. And so these are some of the tools that we have in our app right now. We have four tools, which we will be expanding on in the next coming months and the next version. So we have the recommended attorneys. That's for me, that was the hardest to choose an attorney. So right now we have four major states, Texas, California, Florida, and New York. So we had to scour the country to find the best lawyers that are ethical and that have the same goal as everyone else does, which is to try to have, you know, a painless as painless as possible divorce. The next feature, the chat advocate is almost like having an expert or someone that's like

a best friend that will stop you from saying something you can't take back. Because once you stop the conversation with your partner and there's no going back, you're literally handing that over to your lawyers and that costs a lot of money. So this chat advocate is there to deescalate, deescalate the chat, deescalate the conflict and just help that conversation. I love that. I mean, it's very true. You know, you need a friend, but sometimes a friend is not who you need because sometimes they can't be trusted. Sometimes they're playing, you know,

I mean, the Kyle DeRite and PK situation on Beverly Hills, it can get icky. Also, sometimes you exhaust your friend, your free friend. Right. Or sometimes when you're going through a divorce and you're sharing everything, it can be a little weirdly contagious or people believe it's contagious.

And so by you sharing, sharing, sharing, sometimes it can affect your friends' relationships with their husbands or because of it, they abandon you. So I think it's really important to have, yeah, I think it's really important to have another outlet, like you said, that's not your sister, not your best friend, not the mom at the school, you know. Like a vault, you know, like an expert friend vault

that is not going to let you ruin this relationship and have to go get the lawyers to figure out all your problems. Okay, great. And then you have the meeting advocate. So this is basically a note taker, an expert, another, you have a team of experts in Spitwell. So this note taker is sitting with you in your meetings,

in your phone calls, is taking all of your notes, analyzing all of your documents, and helping you make the best decisions for your specific case. And then we go to the document advocate where you can upload all of your paperwork, all of your legal documents. You can upload your prenup, your-nup, your MSA, which is your marital settlement agreement.

You can upload your parenting plan, all of these very important documents. And honestly, like mine was about 80 pages long. So it's incredibly difficult to go and find exactly what section or whatever answer I need. So here you have your expert helping you find the answers that you might have. So instead of asking every little question,

calling your lawyer, racking up those bills, you can just go into the document advocate and you can ask the questions and it will give you the answers. So speaking of which, we also saw on the show that he, your ex, decides to buy you a house, but that you can live there, he would own it, but you could never move in a man that's not your child.

So. We changed that. We made some changes. and that's not your child. So. We change that. We made some changes. Now if you would have asked split well if that was a great idea. Oh well, I have my back would have saved me from that you know split well, I that's what I mean I wish I had split well

to help me make better decisions right. In the auto and a lot of time and made better decisions. So where are you now with your own situation that you can share as far as how close are you? Did you guys finally get divorced or no? Yeah. Oh, you did? Yeah. We are officially divorced as of November of last year, 2024.

But it doesn't end there. I know you're not divorced, you're happily married. I've been married 25 years, but I do feel like half of people get divorced. That's been like that for a really long time. And, you know, I think there's, there's just some really, there's some things, yeah, that if it can be helpful, you know, I didn't know what your app was, but I know there's, you know, other times where people communicate with their spouse through like a court appointed thing to kind of keep track so that nobody says disparaging awful things. And then this is almost like your situation is a split well. So this is something that you could even get

before you're getting divorced, right? And just kind of like... Even if you're contemplating divorce, even if you've been divorced for years, it's literally for anybody. It's free. You have nothing to lose. It's free for right now. We want to get as many users as possible

because we want their feedback. My team and I want the feedback so we can just make it that much better. Whatever we feel that people need to know, we want to incorporate that into the app. Do you know how much the industry is, the divorce industry, like how much? No, do tell.

50 billion. 50 billion, wow, that is a lot, yeah. Yeah, 50 billion that's going into the lawyer's pockets and it's coming out of everyone else's pockets. So if Splitwell can save at least five or 10% and just help people and help families and help put that money back into the children's future or their future, whatever it is, that's what we're here to do. We want to help people because divorce is devastating.

It's the worst thing next to death you can deal with in your lifetime. And how are you with your ex-mother-in-law? Because that was also a really interesting thing to see. When you are, at first it seemed she was just appalled and it is her son, however. And so it seemed like she was supportive of you. I do think it's a hard position to be in, obviously. It's your child and what are you going to do? And also a man, if it's a son, and you got to stick with your kid. But it was sad to see your situation. Is there any repair in that with your mother-in-law? We haven't spoken since that day. I haven't seen her and I haven't spoken to her

since that day. I think everyone saw on the show. I believe that she was kind of getting cozy with the now ex. And I've heard that she now kind of saw through it. She understands what was going on. Everyone eventually figures it out. But no, it's very sad because I've known her for so long. The kids see her all the time. She is very helpful with the kids, I have to say. But I don't see her.

And it's just, it's a loss. The whole thing is like a loss. I think that's always the thing people don't think about, like how hard that really is to maintain a relationship with your child's ex when there's kids and it's contentious. Of course it can be done. But, and then there's this moment I would think if I was in her position where I still just wanna be with my son and my kids.

So it's like if he's making me choose, then I'm just going to make the best out of the situation, even though she might've had real love for you. You know, she's an older woman. You'll love for me, but I believe that I eventually want her over once the kids came along. Yeah. We had a different relationship.

You know, we were never perfect, but I mean, I wish things didn't go down the way they did. I think it's best in the best interest of the kids. If we could all just, you know, get along, whole parent and just not have all of this drama, I don't want it. I just want happiness. And I'm trying to be that. And I am happy. Finally, I'm on the other side. Finally, thank God for anyone out there. If this is like beginning stages for you, just know that you will get to the other side

and it does get better. And if you're using Splitwell, it's going to help you that much more. And have things gotten better? Like with the co-parenting exchanges, like, do you have a pattern down that's like, you know, maybe less contact and a little more seamless? Are you still working on that with your ex? You know, you're going to have to communicate about the kids no matter what. I have very young kids and when this happened, they were two and six at the time. Now they're five

and nine, But there's always something that comes up and we have to make joint decisions. Like schools and yeah, we do. You know what? These parenting plans are never thorough enough. They're very, very vague. So there's a lot of issues that come up that's not in the parenting plan and you wish you had put that into the parenting plan. And again, if I had had this AI powered app split well, I would have made better decisions. I would have put certain things in my parenting plan

that I would not have known about. What's a couple things that you didn't think could cause a fight that you wish you would have put in writing? Oh, like the birthday parties, for example. Yeah. You meaning with the parenting plan? Yeah, yeah.

So what you would have put in what? Like, every other year you get it on? Like, we have, I'm not gonna go too deep into it, but we have something where it says we have to agree on the camps, like summer camps and any of that. And Lenny is responsible to take care of those camps. But if they're not camps, according to him, if it's, you know, it's not the definition of,

I don't know, a school extracurricular camp. I mean, if it's like a cooking class or something, which the kids enjoy, then he doesn't wanna pay for it because to him, that's not a camp, but it is. It, you know, it is a camp. So all of these little things, I wish I had made a little more clear in the parenting plan. There's a bunch more, but I don't know how long you have. I could be here all day.

I mean, I always think of just having to use the uniform. What is the uniform? Now you've got to specify, okay, he's taking care of the uniform, but what is the uniform? Is it backpack a part of the uniform? like little petty things like that. And you know, all of it adds up. And is it that important at the end of the day? No. But you know, people get heated. And this is why the chat advocate comes in handy, because it, you know, deescalates those conversations. I also think if you can afford it is because it seems to always be a thing, but if you can afford it to buy two basketball uniforms, two school uniforms, the shoes, the cleats,

the whatever, and have them both have a matching set at each parents because you are, there is going to be someone's going to forget. And was it the dad's fault, the nanny's fault, the kid's fault? You've got to, and you know, and the kid doesn't want to like get in trouble for forgetting or you know what I mean? And so I do think that is expensive for most people, but I always thought, God, if you could afford to just have double, that could save some heartache. For sure. If you can do that, absolutely do it because it's quite annoying to like, you know, have everything go back and forth and you forget things.

So we do have that, but you know, there's always something that comes up and I have to refer to the parenting plan and because it says agreed upon, you'll say, no, but I didn't agree to that. And so then it's a problem. And then you says agreed upon, you'll say, no, but I didn't agree. I didn't agree to that. And so then it's a problem. And then you have to go and is it worth it to fight it? Sometimes it's just not.

So yeah, the parenting plan is very important. You really have to think about the parenting plan and the changes that will happen when you have young kids all the way until they're 18 or 21 years old. Because they're going to have a different set of needs when they're 15 and 16 than they do right now. Right. And once they can decide, yeah, I know it's my weekend with dad, but it's my friend's birthday and we're all going to Disney World. And then that has to be worked out and the dad has to realize it's not you turning the kid against him. The child has a social life and she needs to properly communicate with the dad and the

dad can't be sensitive and you can't be sensitive. And so it's like there's so much with it. But before I let you go, so we've got you filmed the season, it's going to air. What, what? June 11th. June 11th. What have you loved most about being a real housewife? What's the best thing about it? I think the platform being able to, you know, have Splitwell and helping people. I think that's what the platform should be used for. And I feel like this is not a vanity project.

This is a passion project. And it's coming from my own experience and just women's experience. I have had so many DMs from so many women and horror stories. So just being able to help people and now use my platform for better. I know there's a lot of bickering and fighting and people love to see that,

but I love that I'm able to do something positive. And I really hope that it really helps a lot of people. I think that's the best thing about being a housewife and having this huge platform. And what's the best thing about being a housewife and having this huge platform. And what's the worst thing about it? Oh my God, like all of the fighting, all of the petty bickering. I get anxious so many times going into like group settings

when you know there's gonna be something, something's gonna pop off. Yeah. And that's, I don't like that. Like I've never really had a fight with any of the women really. It's always been, I've always been very neutral in the, you know, from day one, from the moment I got on the show.

And this season is very different. This season, I actually have some issues. Well, you know, for the last three years, it's been Lenny. It's that ex, it's been Lenny. That's who my enemy was. And now nobody wants to hear about Lenny anymore. We get it, noted, right? So now, you know, it's really the group friend dynamic

has really shifted. And in episode one, it pops off right away. So yeah, like we get into it right away. Good. Well, I mean, look, it's a really fun city to watch. You know, I love when the city is also gorgeous. So, you know, that's what I loved about New York. That's what I love about Beverly Hills. It's like, you know, that's what I loved about New York. That's what I love about Beverly Hills. It's like, you know, the girls can be great,

but when the girls are great and the fashion's fun and the city is beautiful to look at, Miami is, you know, so good. I love that, too. I love watching to see what are they wearing? Let me see where they live. Like, I want to see all the glam, the glitz. I want to see all of it.

And I want to see a little bit of fighting, but not too much. I also want to see real part-tips. So are we going to see like a wedding or anything coming up for you? Where do you stand with your boyfriend, Jodi, your fiance? Not sure yet. We don't know. We have to discuss that a little more. But you are engaged, right? No. Oh, you're not engaged. I'm't know. We have to discuss that a little more. But you are engaged, right?

No. Oh, you're not engaged. I'm over there. Do you want to say hi? Come on over and say hi. You want to ask him? I really, I thought that you were. I couldn't remember.

I miss it. Hey, how's it going? Oh, you're so cute. So, you guys have a great relationship and how's it going? Oh, you're so cute. So you guys have a great relationship. And how did you meet? I slid into her DMs. Oh, so were you watching the show? No, I just had heard from our friend,

because I just lived over on the next island. So I had heard from some of my friends that she had heard Lenny had broke up. And I had, like everybody knew who they were. And then I just broke up with my acts and I was like, maybe I'll maybe I'll like who am I going to date maybe I'll maybe I'll try her. So then I didn't realize that that was like a long shot really. I don't know. I haven't like dated a lot of people you know I was in a

almost a 20 year relationship and then a six year relationship and then a six-year relationship and Lisa. And by the way, his ex-wife and I are like really close friends. That's so nice. They were married for 14 years. Then for six years, he had another relationship. The first one you never get along with. Maybe the second one after it's probably easier. The dust has settled by then. But his ex is great and her husband is great. They take my children out to the movies if we're not here. They come over for Christmas. Yeah, we've done trips together.

We have done ski trips together. It's like we're like a little family and I love it. Do you have children too? Yeah. Yeah. She's here it. Do you have children too? Yeah, yeah, she's here today. So I have a 16 year old. Oh, that's great. I guess that's the reason why I like to take things, you know. You don't want to make anything too traumatic.

So we took a year and a half before we moved in together. You know, now we've moved in together. Now we're kind of, I wanted to see, I wanted to make sure she was getting divorced. Yes, that was important. Right. Because I mean, I totally clowned my ex for getting engaged while he was still married. You remember that? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think that's good. I don't think there has to be like any rush either. I think, you know, especially when there's kids involved and stuff, it's think it was great because that was another thing where it was like, I mean, we're all watching it at home

and we're rooting for you, but at the same time, we're like, Lisa, this is gonna be a lot for the boyfriend. Maybe he can't take this anymore. I'm a part of it too, because I was like, can I make it through this? Like it was, it was just Lenny coming at her and this girlfriend of his just coming at her the entire time. And I was catching a lot of the shrapnel coming after that and helping her through the whole

thing, you know, because it was just amazing how much she got picked on. Yeah. And so... He protects me a lot. Like he really has been such a support for me. I don't know how I could have gone through all of this without him. Like he's talked me off the ledge many times. Yeah.

You know, but you know, people don't understand our relationship and you're going to see that in this season too. The poor guy gets beat up way too much and he doesn't deserve it. He's the nicest guy in the world. He doesn't raise, I don't think he, he's never raised his voice. Like he's the, he's the calmest guy ever. The nicest guy, most supportive guy. And I'm not trying to be a cast member.

You know, I never wanted to be on the show. I don't want to be, I didn't want to be a cast member. I'm not getting paid to be on the show. I didn't expect that everything was going to happen the way that it ends up going down this season. I asked him I said, you know, I'm on the show. I'm a little worried for you. Are you sure? Are you sure you want to?

I was like, how bad can it be? Yeah, you said how bad can it be? And now it's bad. Yeah, he said, how bad can it be? And now it's bad. How do you though go on with your life without like an episode airing and based on the edit and based on where they're steering the story, you guys get, you know, you open your phone

and people are assuming things that are not correct and you like, how do you keep yourself from like wanting to defend yourself and just turning off your phone or do you not do you get engaged with talking to fans? I mean I would prefer to not even watch the episodes I tried to not watch as much as I could but but she likes for me to watch them with her. But when it comes to the, yeah, it was really shocking to me when I read things that are completely off the wall and you get all these people supporting and believing it.

Like for example, there was a story that came out that my ex wasn't my girlfriend, she was my wife. I was like, what? Go look it up. There was another one that I've the real home record Miami, like all these fake stories that we tried to ignore because these people want clout, right? Like the all of them, they're just like leeches. They're just trying to get in there. It was

just a shock to me how the whole world works around this stuff. Like I wasn't that familiar with all of it. You know? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just in the world that we live in everyone can have an opinion and they can put it in writing and they can put it under a under a photo which then that comment might also spark another story of just some random saying I know the truth and then that going down a rabbit hole. So I mean it's very different from when people signed up for the show 15 years ago. I'm sure you, I mean, even with you, Lisa, I mean, I'm sure it's such, you used to just have to do those little like blogs yourself and then wait till the reunion to confront each other. Now,

it's like, you know, Oh, yeah, we had to write a little diary after every episode, and then we put it up on the website. And now, every we have everyone else doing it for us and podcasts and it's like become a whole thing with social media. It's its own animal. Right. Yeah, which, you know, look, I have always loved the show. So, I mean, I'm one of those people that have made this a part of my podcast

along with like pop culture and comedy and stuff. So I see it, but I also understand how hard it is too, because at a certain point I've had that happen to me and I'm like, that's not true, how am I? And then I'm like, well, I guess I deserve it because I've talked about you guys. So I do think the more that you can get to a place of like, this would be my advice to anyone,

is just like, even though it seems like it's so huge and the whole world is talking about it, it still is this like weird niche thing. And they do move on and time will always get you to the truth. And in the meantime, I just wouldn't like, let it keep you up at night or ruin a whole day by looking at your phone or what, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I think what makes it hard is because I have, well, I had a pretty public life as a tech founder and I have to try to balance that. And so I don't, you know, my main business for the last, I don't know, 15 years has been selling software to law firms actually. So like, you know, I really don't want, you know, all this kind of stuff getting skewed in one direction or another. I would, I'd like to get as little camera time as possible. Sorry for bringing you into this.

No, I don't mind. But I always wonder, you know, because it's like, you know, if you fall in love with a woman on The Housewives, you have to agree to be on it. And then you get all these women watching that are criticizing either you're too involved or you're not involved enough or you want to be a housewife or you're being aloof or you know they because they listen a lot of people are miserable that watch the show and they don't really want to see they love they probably will love you more Lisa when you are crying as like a shell of yourself than what we're probably going to see this season now that you're doing better.

You know, there's gonna be people like me and other people that are gonna like love it and then there's going to be people that just will come out of the troll bridge and and just be kind of bad that like they just don't want it. They don't want because you know when they they related when you were suffering because they you know were in a happy place and you were suffering because they, you know, were in a happy place and then you recover from it and you're doing better than ever. So that's a part of it too. And that can happen with castmates, but it can also just happen with the viewers not being so happy that you're doing better. They like you better when you're crying. It's part of the job, you know? Yeah. It's part of the job. That's what I signed up for. What would be your advice if someone came to you and said,

Hey, I've been approached. They're doing a new season somewhere. And I'm contemplating if I should go be a real housewife in whatever, Chicago. What would you, what would be your advice to someone thinking of doing it? Okay, so my advice would be, don't go on the show if you have things you don't want to get out there, because they will come out. I think a lot of people, not a lot of

people, but some people make the mistake of thinking they're going to keep these skeletons hidden. Yeah. Somebody always dig them up. Right. So I think that is like my best advice to give. And you know, have something you actually want to do with the platform. Don't just go and just give away your life for free. You know, try to use the platform and do something with it. I think that's great. I think that's great advice. I mean, I also think, you know, for younger people that are joining reality TV, it is a little different for them because

especially if there's someone that already has been giving every thought every moment of their life on social media from like 15 on and now they're 30 and they want to be entertainment and they're being approached to be on a show. I'm like, yeah, you've got nothing to lose, you know, like I get it. And then I think there's people that haven't been like that and have lived kind of private, wealthy lives. And for them, it's probably not the wisest sometimes to go on the show, you know? Nope, definitely. Yes.

Have I had some regrets? I mean, I would have never done the show if I was going through the divorce, but I was already, you know, I already signed up years ago. Everything was fine. I was loving it. I was having a blast until I wasn't. Yeah, right. But then, you know, it's like,

truly everything happens for a reason. Cause like, look at you now, you are launching this incredible app, which I think is going to be very successful, and you're in love and like you have your own thing going. And, you know, maybe if this show never would have come, you would have just, you know, still been, or you would have been divorced and not in a financial place to support yourself. So like, I do see that there's a lot of positives, you know,

that happen from it. So like, yeah, your marriage wouldn't, the marriage wasn't right anyway, obviously, if he stepped out on you, he was going to step out on you no matter what. Being on a reality show doesn't cause someone to, you know, be, you know, to practice infidelity. So, yeah. Anyway, this has been really fun. I loved talking to you. It was really great getting to know you a little bit, Jodi, in your honesty. We're so excited for the season. The app is split well. Lisa, where can they follow you if they aren't already following you? You can follow me at LisaHockstein on Instagram, on really every platform, TikTok. I need TikTok followers. I'm just getting on that.

Okay. But splitwell.com. Tomorrow the app goes live. It's available for iOS and it will be available for Android in the next coming weeks. Awesome. Thanks so much, you guys. And then hopefully I'll get to hang out with you in person soon. Are you going to BravoCon? Yeah. We're going to. I hope to see you before that. Yes. We're going to come visit.

Okay, cool. Thanks. Bye. Thanks. Good to see you. Thank you so much. Bye.