Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Spencer Pratt, Oscars and Ruby Franke

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

I got a triple header show for you! First I go through a recap of the Oscars and all you need to know that was juicy. Then I talk to Spencer Pratt! He gives his take on the Oscars, if dating Kylie Jenner hurt Timothee Chalamet's chance of winning, and what Kim Kardashian needs to do in light of Kanye. Then he fills us in on all he has uncovered about the Palisades fire and who is responsible. Heidi is going on tour and they have big news to announce! I interview journalist Fortesa Latifi who has been uncovering the dark side of family vlogging much like Ruby Franke who was convicted of child abuse and doing up to 30 years in prison. She shares some of her findings and it’s all fascinating in this time of everyone being on social media. • Head to https://acorns.com/juicyscoop or download the Acorns app to get started. • Go to https://legacybox.com/JUICY to get an incredible 50% off. • Find exactly what you’re booking for on https://Booking.com, Booking.yeah! Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald on iTunes, the podcast app, and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPodApple  https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: https://juicyscoopshop.com  Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear off about transferring your business

when the time comes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do, business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business. This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Booking.com. So I love using Booking.com.

You know I travel a lot, but I travel doing different things. And Booking.com has a huge variety of options from hotels to vacation rentals, and I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that Booking.com has something for everyone. No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for on Booking.com, Booking.yeah.

Heather McDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop. You guys, I have such a packed show for you. I'm going to cover the Oscars and then I'm going to talk to Spencer Pratt. He's going to give us the latest of everything that's going on. And then I also have a great interview that I recorded a couple of weeks ago, but I wanted to save for when the Ruby Frank documentary came out on Netflix. Ruby Frank is doing up to 30 years for child abuse, but at one time she was one of the

biggest moms in family vlogging with a YouTube channel called 8 Passengers. I watched the documentary over the weekend. It's absolutely, it's very disturbing, but it's so fascinating, really sticks with you. And this interview that I did with a journalist who's writing a book about it, she has also interviewed many other children of family vloggers that are anonymous still at this point,

but such a juicy interview. So we have a really packed show for you guys. So let's just get into the Oscars. Okay, Conan O'Brien was the host. I think he did absolutely great. He had such a great attitude. He changed his tuxes a few times and he looked great. On the other hand, I didn't like Robert Downey Jr.'s look.

You're like, Heather, I can't believe you're talking about the male outfits. Well, yeah, I can't believe you're talking about the male outfits. Well, yeah, I am, because Robert Downey Jr. wore these like, kind of like flowy, weird, I'm sorry, I'm going to say it, womanly pants. I just did not think it looked good compared to Conan's fitted pants. It just, sorry, that's what I'm going to say. The show opened up beautifully with a wicked, you know, with the two girls singing and their love for each other and bowing to each other and singing and sounding fabulous. Also, all of their dresses were stunning. I really don't think anybody wore

a bad dress except at the after party, which was at Vanity Fair. Oh, and then also there was an after party that Elton John always has that they said made over $8 million for AIDS. He's had this forever. And his husband and his two twin sons, who are like teenagers now, made an appearance, which we never see, but they're very cute and polite. And he sang Pink Pony Club with Chappell Rhone, and she also did his classics, and that looked like a really fun party.

To remind you, this is the party that Sutton called out Lisa Rinna for, for never paying to come to. What I remember, allegedly, is Sutton got a table, because she's a rich lady, and charitable, and invited Lisa Rinna to sit at her table and mention that she never made a donation or paid her back. And Lisa Renna was like, I've always been invited because I'm fucking Lisa Renna, okay?

With Harry fucking Hamlin. And so anyway, I just wanted to just make always a housewife reference in the biggest night in Hollywood. So Demi Moore who has worn the best dresses I have ever seen, the best gowns, her body is amazing, she did not win. Okay, well this was kind of juicy.

So Mikey Madison, she's very young, she won best actress for Anora. Mackenzie saw it, a lot of other people I know saw it, and they're like, Heather, you will love it, because it is about a sugar baby or a sex worker. She gets up on stage, and along with thanking all the appropriate people for the film, she says, and I'd like to thank everybody in the sex worker industry, or something to that effect.

And it was just kind of weird to hear like an audience of Hollywood elites like cheer for that. But honestly, I thought about it and some of my favorite movies involve stories involving sex workers. I'm obsessed with it. From Pretty Woman to Monster. So I looked up how many actresses have won for roles where they play a sex worker. And there are so many, or they've been nominated. And I think that these, you know, I think it's, my mom used to say, oldest

profession in the world. And it is something, it's very intriguing storytelling. It's very juicy. And, you know, when you're not living it, you're intrigued by it, like someone like me. That's why I also like affairs and that type of film genre too. And Fidelity, I like that stuff. So I'm excited to see it. And of course she was very gracious in her acceptance speech as well about being with everybody like Demi Moore and so many others that were nominated. Okay.

Oh, Conan in his monologue, I think he did great. And he went there. You know, not Ricky Gervais went there, but kind of trying to be. He called out the actress that was nominated for Amelia Perez, who did not win, for her horrific tweets saying, and if you're going to tweet about this, I'm Jimmy Kimmel. And that was good. She's right in front of him. He brought it up. He also said, oh, it's the show is halfway over. So this is when Kendrick Lamar comes out and calls

Drake a pedophile. Just saying the word pedophile is a memorable moment in a Hollywood award show. Again, recoup your face. Y'all pedophiles. Y'all pedophiles. He said pedophiles. Y'all pedophiles. I don't care. I don't care. Don't ask me to host the Golden Globes again. Like it was good. But he was self-deprecating and funny. And like I said, I liked his tailored suits. It was just a really good show. There was a beautiful moment, another great act,

which they did a James Bond thing and saying, diamonds are forever. And it was just great. Like all of it, I mean, yes, it took long and everything. There wasn't any like super scandalous moment. And it was good. But now let's talk about the horrible outfits. Well, Julia Fox, and you know what?

She knows what she's doing because the only time we're talking about her, she's not really, she's not in movies, she's not dating anyone exciting, is when she goes on the red carpet and wears something weird. So she knows what she's doing. So she saw what happened with Bianca, who is now dating, married to her ex-boyfriend Kanye. She did a sheer dress too, but she wore a long wig and put, had full nip out, but then had the long wig kind of like Adam and Eve come down to cover just the split part of

the vagina. So that was classy. Zoe, who won Best Support best supporting actress for Amelia Perez, she had a great speech and she also had a great moment where someone asked her, oh, how do you feel about Mexican people not liking this movie because it takes place in their country or something like that?

She was very diplomatic in her answer and just so well spoken and her speech was great. Thank you, your mom and her husband. So she had, I thought, an incredible speech. But anyway, there was that naked outfit. Sofia Vergara came and I just thought her outfit was just, her dress was nothing great. She had the cutouts. If anyone did the sheer thing, which I think is definitely on its way out, it was only at the after parties. Nobody wore it to walk out. Oh, Olivia Wilde did a really sheer one, like bottom of the nip showing full breast, whatever. But you know what? We're talking about you. I wouldn't have mentioned you

if you were in a sequins strapless, well-fitted, beautiful gown because that's what everybody wore. Selena Gomez, I always wonder how they change then like when they're a presenter and then they go to the party. Then I was like, Heather, they obviously have a hotel room and their glam is waiting there to go immediately there, change, and then go to the next party. But anyway, her dresses were beautiful. I didn't realize how much shorter her fiance was. Not a big deal.

People had a bigger problem that he was chewing gum. Oh, Adrian Brody, who won Best Actor, he was chewing gum. And then when he went up to do his speech, he took out his gum and threw it to his girlfriend. And I guess she caught it. That was like a big moment, whatever. His speech was nice. And that's it. You know, no, I was here recovering, had a great show at Agua Caliente Saturday night

with Brandi and Julie. We had so much fun and I wasn't feeling well. And I was like, how many? I've only probably performed three times when I'm not feeling 100%. And they sometimes are the most fun shows. I don't know what happens. God comes down and blesses me for an hour and a half. But to everybody who came, I really had such a good time. And thank you so much for coming to live shows. They are just so much fun. All right, you guys. And now for my first interview with Spencer Pratt. I want to get into everything that's going on, but right before we started, you mentioned some Oscar thoughts and I just did a little recap on the Oscars. So let me

get your thoughts on it and then we'll get into all everything that's going in your going on in your world. I was just so surprised that Demi or Demi thought she was going to beat Anora, even though I wish the best for her, but she's living the real life substance. So of course, the young version of her is going to beat her in the Oscars. So I just saw that coming and her reaction. I thought everyone on the lip readers on TikTok says she says nice. I think she says F-U-C-K, but maybe I want it. I want to see that. You know who I thought really loved it though, and I wish they'd cut to her face, but it's not the Grammys.

So they don't do that type of stuff, is Kylie Jenner. I would have loved to see Kylie's reaction to Demi. Is it Demi or Demi? Demi. Why? Why would Kylie's reaction matter? Oh, you don't remember what Demi did to Kylie with that whole viral thing at the... whatever award show it was? You missed that? Oh, when she kind of rebuffed her, but I think it was just...

that who she was sitting with were people she actually knew and worked with. I remember that whole thing with Debbie Moore and Kylie. And I just think she didn't know Kylie. And I don't think she's trying to be rude. But I felt like Kylie has been such a great girlfriend, which is interesting because a lot of people wondered if that relationship was real.

But I think two years in, I do think it's real. And I was thinking how Kris Jenner has really risen in her daughter's dating. Because it used to be like, whoa, remember when they were so excited and Kris and Kim came down on the field when, what was the first boyfriend that won the Super Bowl? Reggie Bush. When Reggie Bush won the Super Bowl? It was the was not the Super Bowl. It was just like the road.

Like I think maybe it was the Rose Bowl. It was like when he was at USC. Was it? Well, I don't know. I thought it was a Trojan. Well, he was a Trojan, but I don't think they were dating when he was a Trojan. I don't think she ever got Super Bowl clout. Really?

OK. And then of course, you know, NBA with, um, you know, with Lamar and I'm like, and now it's Oscars. And married a Nazi. That's horrible. I know I'm like, what if North has to do a book report on Anne Frank? That'll be an awkward day at dad's house. Disgusting. Okay. Back to the funny Oscars. What else about the Oscars?

Speaking of Kylie though, I was thinking if I was Timmy Chalamet's agent this morning, I would be thinking if Kylie is not good for his like brand. Like I'm sure that's an agent's thing because he didn't win the Oscar and there is it too, like, as he takes his acting so serious and then he has like a, like a Kardashian Jenner relationship. And I wonder if the Academy, like if I'm playing Hollywood agents, that's my first thought. Like, oh, you didn't win. Maybe this is not a good look. Like initially they were very private until this like award season and they like for some reason pivoted. So that was just what I was saying on the car ride with Heidi.

I was like, if I was an agent, I would be like, I'll know about this one. But I think that Kylie out of all of them has like kind of conducted herself in a different way, maybe because she was raised in it so young and you know like keeping her first pregnancy private keeping this initially private as the girlfriend she's shown up looking stunning a lot of like the look I thought was a lot of less makeup to on a lot of people but she sort of started that she looks really good. She's you know never trying to draw attention from him. So I don't know, I think she has a, I think she has her own kind of following that respects her that's separate

from the rest of them. Like when Kim, like Kim's outfit for the after party, did you see that? It looked like someone's like comfort or duvet. The wedding one? The wedding dress? Yes, very, very weird. Like, like it was just, it didn't look good. And I never thought I'd feel bad for Kim, but I don't think anyone deserves to have an ex doing like, Kim has worked so hard to now just have, it's the craziest toxic cloud nightmare just haunting. There's no way that can't be, you can't just compartmentalize

that. So, I totally agree. I've said over and over, I don't think there's a worse person that you would have to co-parent four kids with. And I give her that and she's in such a difficult position to be in. Thank God she divorced him before this got to this level. Because there were stuff that I think where he was acting crazy that got her to the place to finally say, I've got to leave you. But thank God it didn't happen on her watch. She just needs to do like a real public apology to her and get the Swifties back on her side right now. But he's not sorry. Like heies back on her side right now.

But he's not sorry. No, no, not Kanye. Kim needs to do multiple interviews about how she played Taylor out and get Taylor and give Taylor $500 million to do a skims campaign and just get that because it's hard for me even as a Swiftie to have any sympathy publicly for her. But if she did a real effort to be like, I messed up, please forgive me. And, you know, kind of like the Zelinsky thing if she, you know, but yeah. Okay, here's a juicy fact that really might surprise you. 66% of men are investing

in the stock market compared to just 48% of women, which is crazy because they found that actually women are better investing because they know exactly what drives them and they have passion and why they think it would be a great investment. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich.

Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. What I like about Acorns is that it got me investing. I got to see my money grow. And honestly, it's such a great feeling to know that I'm just not continuing to put that off. Sign up now and join the over 13 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested

over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com slash juicy scoop or download the Acorns app to get started. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Paid non-client endorsement, Okay, we all have our favorite childhood memories, maybe it's you performing in a play or Christmas morning. I came across all these VHS tapes of my first time doing stand-up, also at the Groundlings Sketch Comedy Theater, and I want you guys to see it. Well, you're going to because I've got Legacy Box and Legacy Box makes it so easy. You just fill your legacy box with old VHS tapes

or camcorder tapes, pictures, their team professionally digitizes everything by hand in the USA and you'll get a bath plus your originals on the cloud that makes it so simple to share, stream and download the memories. Like I am so excited to do this, you guys. I mean, it's such great content out of it and I'm a little scared but kind of excited to see what my first jokes were. Go to legacybox.com slash juicy to get an incredible 50% off. By today,

send in when you're ready. Go to legacybox.com slash juicy, legacybox.com slash juicy. Wait, also, speaking of Swifties, how do you feel about Taylor Swift being dragged into the Blake Lively Justin Bell Doning mess and not taking a stand either way, but also not inviting her to be in the suite at the Super Bowl. The dragon stuff, I'm sure spooked her up a little bit. Yeah. Unless she called, you know, we don't know, maybe Taylor refers herself as a dragon secretly,

I don't know. And that's the part we're missing. But if I were Taylor, I'd be like, huh. And that whole setup where like timing Justin's meeting and having Taylor show up with Ryan there. But again, I've already said I've been bought off by Ryan and Mint Mobile and Blake Lively. So I'm trying to get another Mint Mobile commercial.

So I think they're great, jolly old folks. I look forward to it. What do you mean? You've done, there have been Mint Mobile ads on this show. They gave us that commercial that aired during the Golden Bachelor. Oh. And it was an incredible check

that I will forever be thankful for. So I don't bite the hand that feeds me. Even though that hand is writing scripts. They shouldn't be writing or whatever. Right. Well, you know, it's the honesty of you that keeps the juicy scoopers in your back pocket because you are so transparent about everything. And so let's get into your life. This morning, you finally got to meet with the appointment. Tell us about that.

About the. No, no, that that is coming up. I was supposed to meet them this morning. I told him I was going to be late. So no, I found two guys right now. I don't know if what's going on with immigration and checkpoints or it is impossible to hire anybody to just I want to dig all of my shattered crystals out of the rubble before the army corps comes in.

So I've been trying for weeks to hire anybody to come up because I was trying to do it myself and just digging. Like I'm not in the shape level where I could just dig everything myself, put them in buckets, carry them up the hill, like, because we lived on a hill. So I finally found two guys that specialize in debris clearance and that's what their current job is. So they're going to help dig all my shattered crystals out of the rubble before the Army Corps supposedly comes and just clears everything and puts it in dumpsters. So today-

So that is the plan that the Army is going to come and clear the whole neighborhood for everyone? If you submitted all the forms in time, you could opt in, but most of these rich people in the Palisades are choosing privately because I think you have more. I'm not sure why you choose private because everyone I talked to was like minimum $100,000. Wow. To dig out rubble. And how are you feeling? What would you like to share your opinions now that it's been over a, what, we're almost coming on two months, right?

Yeah. I think it's 41 days or 42 days. Um, how are you feeling about all the theories? What do you think happened? What would you like to share with us? Yeah. I mean, obviously I have the court case going. So my lawyer is like, we have a big thing unfolding this week, so we can catch up. But I won't know until that comes out. And I think that's Thursday. So there's a big like, aha moment coming, which is I'm excited for. But really, the lawsuits, my only hope to ever go back to the Palisades because we just had that fair plan since farmers had dropped us and all you could get was a fair fair plan, I think it was called. And that only covered the structure. And since we're on a hill to just bring our house up to code,

the whole amount of fair plan money that they said was going to rebuild our house is actually only covers the cement and the piling. So, you know, we truly need to win this lawsuit, which is hard when you sue a city because they have so many of these immunities, which are insane. If you know, if you're the reason why a house is destroyed, you should have no immunity, which is ugly. Why we're going to get our a house is destroyed, you should have no immunity, which is ugly why we're going to get our case held in front of a jury, which is the goal. And is it just you guys or is this like a class action? Yeah, I've added my entire all day long neighbors are finally getting my number and texting and I keep thinking I added five houses from the neighborhood yesterday. So as I keep telling people on social media, reach out and I can add you to the case. So I want to say I have at least a hundred,

I'm guessing a hundred houses in the neighborhood. And again, probably four people are adding a day because they're looking at, you know, I think it was so much in the initial, you know, I knew right away, like this should never have happened. And, you know, I knew right away like this should never have happened. And, you know, obviously I'm not an expert and I'm in the comment section trying not to argue with, you know, firefighter accounts and, you know, climate change people and you know, you know, people that are just brainwashed and I don't care what anyone says, period. I don't care about like the pre-planning or whatever. All I know is when the fire first started,

you could have put it out because it wasn't a surprise. Everyone said for three days, there were gonna be these hurricane winds. And again, these winds did not get crazy until the afternoon. I was Snapchatting on the hill from 10.30 a.m. till five o'clock when it got really windy. And initially that shout out Canada. Everyone informed me there were Canadian planes.

There were two Canadian planes doing a great job, but there should have been 20. It should have been a hundred. I mean just amount. I don't have money in my bank account because I pay since 2007. We started making money. I pay all my money to taxes. So all of my money goes to taxes. So there should be enough for the palisades where pays all these

taxes to have 20 of these planes parked in Van Nuys or at Point Magoo at the, you know, because they got a runway there would probably take, I don't know how fast these planes are. Again, I'm not an expert for all these people that don't come tacking me in my DMs. This is my opinion. You park these planes at Point Magoo and there's the ocean. I watched these two, they would go and they would scoop it and they would drop it. If there had been, you know, I have friends saying a hundred, which I feel like the Mount Palisades paid in taxes, there could be a hundred of these planes. They're not fighter jets. Keep in mind, like we got enough F 22 Raptors. These things all costs $350 million a plane.

These are just like propeller looking things that dump water. So I'm not saying like build an air force. So my whole thing of. We saw what happened with the fire, the paradise fire, we saw the woosley fire, like that nobody. And again, it's my bad that I haven't been making TikToks, you know, because I was never engaged in this. I just assumed the palisades would have water and the hydrants we have. I live on a street with a reservoir and in the last six months they kind of were like working on it and I was asking like oh what are you guys doing? They're like oh we're

fixing this reservoir. I'm like oh there's no water in that? And like oh no so for the eight years we've been living on our street we have one of those reservoirs and I know it's empty because they told me it was empty. So this isn't even the reservoir everyone's talking about, the one in the Highlands that was empty. There was also one on my street that was empty as well. So let's not even count the water and the reservoirs and the no brush clearance. Cause I saw this one, like obviously paid off,

former fire chief, like there could have been two football fields of brush clearance. Like that's not true. Cause the houses to my right that are didn't burn down on this hill, I used to always see they were so good about their own backyard brush clearance and those houses are all fine. So all the ones that didn't have that. So if you go back, I don't know. I'm again, I'm not an expert. It's all just me just thinking about this all day long now every day. You clear the brush for, you know, maybe the wind's still going to bring it, but it's not all the way up to everyone's houses. So, you know, there's the brush clearance, there's the water, there's

they're not the planes. Also, my friend, shout out Jamie Geller, who reminded me because she's a little older than me. She grew up in the Palisades. She said back when she was in high school and she was younger, she remembers on these wind events, they would have fire trucks parked on these trails going into it. So keep in mind, I've said it a million times on my social media. The reason why Heidi and I didn't really like believe, and I think all my neighbors maybe that our houses were gonna burn down. There was never one fire truck in, I never heard a siren from 10 a.m. to four o'clock when I left.

So I didn't hear a siren. There was no police cars coming up the streets with megaphone. Like nobody felt that energy. I think I would have stayed and tried to like put out our house and probably died. Because now I go back all day long thinking, well, maybe if I somebody with water, you know, because you watch it in the cameras, I'm like, Oh, if I put water on that deck and I'm, but you know, I obviously I would have needed some more friends. But my point

is that's why Malibu this happened in Malibu. And they started, you know, all these locals started the, uh, citizen brigade where they bought, you know, all these locals started the citizen brigade where they bought, they raised $2 million. They bought their own fire hoses. They bought their own fire trucks. And just like 60 days ago, the citizen brigade helped save my friend Brian's house in Malibu because no fire trucks came. You know, he said he was on his balcony in Malibu and he saw, you know, a

hundred fire trucks parked like going into Cross Creek as he's with his buddies putting out the fire around his house. And I'm like, what is that? And he's like, it's just a bureaucracy because first off they don't know what streets they are allowed to go on. If they're going to get, so there's just so many things that, you know, again, because I mean, because each fire department is only allocated which places I would have to have an expert, you know, there now there's a lot of citizen experts because they've lost, you know, all these friends I have from Malibu could, I will be like them, I'm sure in a couple years, because I'm learning daily about it. But the moral of story is they didn't have water in the hydrants. I have videos of my friends who did stay back

and they're like I said before, there's fire just starting on their deck. They're showing no waters coming out of their faucets. So they can't even hose it. So there's no water. And then they have quotes were like, Oh, we weren't prepared to fight an urban fire. Like nobody told me that. I would have said like, give me some tax money back. I'll do what Rick Caruso did and I'll have private tankers parked in front of my house, spraying the house down with fire retardant or whatever it's called. You know, so it's just, you just assume, cause we pay so much money that, oh my gosh, they have what they need, but clearly they don't or they didn't. So yeah, I am very confident in winning the lawsuit.

Again, I'm not trying to sue to like have a hundred million dollars. I want to my house back and my furniture. I'm just not give me my house, give my furniture, maybe some of my clothes are burned down. So my lawsuit, my intention isn't like, like, Oh, give me a hundred million dollars. Like, no, give me my house. You took from me back from my family. So, and you know, what, so how do you feel about the latest news where Karen Bass, our mayor is recorded saying, I know, you know, she tweeted about it. I know about these issues, but I'm still going to go to Ghana and then her subsequently then firing the fire chief. You know, everyone's, you know, people know I, the problem with, I can't even say I love conspiracies anymore because there's now it's like, if you say that you're like an evil monster. Like I used to enjoy TikTok conspiracies. Now you can't even

say that anymore. But everyone sent me the James O'Keefe investigative, that phone call, you know, I got a thousand people sent me that. And I wish there was more of a smoking gun. Regardless, it shows her character, like that she knows something. And that's like, maybe it has nothing to do with the fires, but it's just, it was was such a weird energy so that was my takeaway from it I didn't think because everyone was sending it this phone call that where they have Karen Bass somebody and honestly recorded her talking about before the fires like three days something big is happening I can't tell you it was just so creepy that's the energy you know so I don't even know if it was the fires, you know, that they

knew like, this is probably gonna, you know, I don't think they lit. I know people think energy direct weapons and you know, they're this is a land grab, you know, every single thing is sent to me. So there's nothing I haven't read. I don't think it's that I do think it was arson. I think they can't say arson. Because if they say arson, now they get no money from the federal government because then it's not a natural disaster. Oh, I do think someone started it for sure. Because there wasn't a lightning bolt at 10 AM. I know people, everyone will message me and they're like, it was from the New Year's Eve fire and it was rekindling and deep. You know, there's that angle.

There's people will tell you that. And there's also people say, no, they checked out that thermal imaging, blah, blah. And here's so again, if that was it again, I could win my lawsuit. So if it was, they prove that it was rekindling from a fire that they supposedly put out like I should win a lawsuit. Like the city shouldn't have immunity if they mess up. Like, that's not how, like... I mean, what is the explanation to not have water in your own, like... So there wasn't

water in the fire hydrants, but there also weren't people's water. What I saw, when people have like a hose thing outside of their house and there wasn't water coming out of there, what was that? It's all connected. So there was not enough water for the whole city, which... Oh, because they were using some of the water, but it ran out. Yeah, I guess it ran out fast. I think there was some, you know, enough. There was something that we read that was one of the reservoirs, why it was empty, was because some animals had fallen in it and they wanted to clear it out and put a cover on it so no more animals could fall in it. And I'm like, but was this reservoir like not, it's not drinking water.

It would have been the saving water. So who cares if some animals fell? And I don't understand that. Do you know about that? Yeah, I don't know. I know that the cover was damaged. But when my older sister grew up and everyone in the Palaces grew up, there was no cover on that reservoir.

They used to swim in it. It was like you jump in. So I just know the reservoir didn't need a cover. So maybe this, regardless of this cover didn't exist from the history of the Palisades I knew because everyone used to swim in this reservoir. So I don't know why maybe the animals were going in it and that's why they made the cover. I don't know, but I know that for the water to work, you didn't even need the cover. Also here's another thing. This is a new scoop. So I'm in like the whole Palisades WhatsApp chat. And one thing that just came out, LA Times is telling, again, I'm misquoting.

This isn't exact. But they're saying they weren't ever told that the fire hydrants didn't have water. But all my neighbors have emails. Somehow they knew about this. I got to read all these emails. I asked for them all to send to my lawyer. But there's emails that lots of neighbors in 2020 have evidence of sending and they got the names of who at DWP sending these emails telling them these fire hydrants don't have water in them.

So the whole storyline they're saying they know they were unaware that there was no water in these hydrants and I think that was just in LA times. That's why all these WhatsApp chats with the neighbors are all, you know, sharing their emails they've sent. So there's just so much lying and finger pointing and back to that chief. I'm not saying she's like, I know people are like, I'm glad she threw the, uh, the mayor under the bus, but she also didn't. I love that the mayor threw her under the bus cause they're all, it's like that, like a meme or everyone's pointing at each other, like, which it should be.

They should all be, they should all be fired they should all be investigated and criminally, I want them to go like I hate that people are just gonna get away with this and That's my takeaway that I want to become like a better Citizen like I'm not trying it like I don't want to be like political, but I just want accountability from my level. I'm like local level. I'm not trying to get into politics. I'm just saying, I want to be in a place where you burn down a whole city. You're responsible for it. You're going to have criminal charge. Like if a law enforcement officer, like right now there's a sheriff, I don't know the whole story, but like use their taser to the person didn't even die. No, not even taser. They're mace. They use their mace. Now they're getting held for a gam. These are all do not come at me out. These are perfect facts, but from what I recall, they use their mace, blah, blah, blah. They're now getting got fired. They're getting criminally charged. Why did like it was a law enforcement person have that happen

to them? But if the mayor or the fire chief causes a whole town to burn down because of ineptness or whatever they didn't do, why can't they be held? Why can't I take them to like criminal court? Because I feel like if people in these positions of power and sit on these city councils, if there was consequences to just like messing up like law enforcement has, I just don't, I would imagine there are people would be more serious about their job. Again, that I love that the mayor said there should have been a thousand of these. I know we're going to hear more of it. I'm sure the mayor didn't say that they get out of the funding. Like I'm not saying the mayor's right. I hate the mayor. I hate the fire chief.

I hate all these people. So, but I love that the mayor did say, well, you didn't do what you're supposed to and we've done in the past. And in the, uh, they just, the mayor's text just came out. There were no texts from, so maybe there's a different phone there, but there were no texts from the fire chief to the mayor, which the mayor's office did say, usually you call. So they're like, they didn't lie about that.

You weren't calling and texting and asking for, hey, cause if you're saying you didn't send the thousand people because of your budgets and overtime, why didn't you text? Where's the text? Like, hey, I think we should, can you make sure I'm cool on the budget? I need these thousand. Cause it's back to the thing. If the fire started at five 30 with the high

winds, I agree with everybody. Then this was, this is a climate change event. Nothing could happen. But when I was there at 10 30 and it was up on the hill, 10 30 am, which you have all the evidence because you were filming it. Yeah. If I was, if you have a thousand firefighters again, maybe my house burns down up on the hill, but my parents' house should not have burned down on the other side of the Palisades. So that's my whole take. I'm not saying they could have stopped houses

from burning down. I just feel like if we'd had the resources, the planes, the helicopters, again, I know the wind came, but for three hours they were flying. And then when they left and then they came back, I don't know. I know there's conspiracies about that and I got attacked for even mentioning that. So I don't know why they left and came back. My friend things they out of like protocol, they left because the wind. And then when they realized the firefighters like get back here, protocol

is over. Like if you know if you can do it and then they came back because they realized oh my god, everything's going to burn down. So you know I think there's going to I hope because I know knew some are awesome governor said there's going to be an investigation. So I hope in the investigation we hear why the planes left and why the planes came back and then in the future if it looks like there's an emergency Don't leave and you know these pilots and other people are you and me in my comment section It looks like it's doing less than it really is. Yeah with two of them, but a hundred of these planes You know, so whatever I know know I'm so, I'm so mad.

Well, you're probably thrilled to know that Gavin is doing all he can, because he is starting his own podcast. It's just Gav or something. So maybe you can be his first guest because he says I want people that disagree with me. I think personally, he's like everyone else has a podcast and has cool people come to their mansion. I'm going to start my own. So in case I'm not the governor anymore, then I have this to look forward to. Oh, my joke on social media was since Alex Earl left the unwell network, I thought Gavin

would be perfect for the Unwell Network because it seemed like such an unwell mental, you know, it's a hundred percent. That's what it is. He's like, oh, I can't now that I burned down LA, I probably won't be president. I better have my wine and my podcast. So I'm sure he'll be selling wine ads on his podcast. Absolutely. Okay. Now, before we wrap up, tell me the latest that's happening with Heidi. I love the Pitbull. I played at the end of my last four of my live shows. We danced to it at the end of the show. The I'll do it with Pitbull. What is going on in that world? Heidi has a huge record with one of the most famous artists alive.

Top, I'd say as famous as you can be, talented superstar. So that record's done. That artist even directed the music video, edited it. So that's coming out within the next four weeks, I would say. Oh, wow. That's awesome. So that's coming out within the next four weeks, I would say. Oh, wow. That's awesome. So that's incredible. That artist reached out, wrote the song with this other Grammy-nominated producer for Heidi about, you know, it's a very uplifting song. So that's- Oh my God. I love that.

Really exciting. Heidi's now living a dream that she never imagined would come true in the sense that she's gonna have to be a mom that you know She has a show in Seattle. She's like she's like a juicy scoop She's like you mom. So she has Seattle San Francisco She's performing at the hoop hoop la in England in front of 30,000 people so in England in front of 30,000 people. So, it's very funny. Are you guys going with her? Or is she gonna just go be gone for two days and come back? I'm going with her.

Her mom and dad are gonna come stay with our kids. So that's great. And I'm gonna go with her because somebody needs to film her and sell the merch. I'm gonna be in charge of the merch booth. So it's very- As someone with two young boys who was traveling, the few times that I would like,

I remember like one time I was like, oh my God, I'm doing three nights and five shows at like some Phoenix improv. So I made it that we could stay at this hotel that had like a water slide at it so that I could like be with my kids in the day. And of course, my younger son wasn't tall enough to go down the water slide. It was extremely traumatic for the whole family.

But you know, you're so tired, honestly, you need to save your energy for the day that my suggestion to any mom, if it's the short stints is to not bring the kids rest during the day, rest your voice, not be exerting energy and then, you know, and then come back and just be gone for a short period of time and then come back. Yeah, like I said, if we were like, if we'd gotten a reality show, then you bring the family.

And it's just like the Griswolds, you know, international tour and then at bring the family. And it's just like the Griswolds do the international tour. And then at least the insanity of parenting and traveling to the show, then there's a purpose to it. But I was like, if there's no reality show, these are just strike missions. But that was my initial pitch. Like, this is it.

This is the show. We travel the world. And Heidi's looking at me like, no, we're not doing that. It's too much. You need to have your downtime. Yeah. So it'll be already too much, which is great. But again, these are all high-class problems because, you know, thank God, these opportunities are happening so that I'm looking into a TP, like, uh, I mean, like a really large TP to put put on our former house since we can't build a

house. I'm like, well, we could get a nice one. These nice teepees like you see in Saudi Arabia and these deserts, you know, like the like really nice teepees. So why a teepee? Why not one of those like where they talk about these homes that are like 3D and can be like made like a Lego and, and it could be still nice and temporary but maybe you could just make that your ADU at the end or something like what about something like that?

Our house is like on a hill so that's why we can't rebuild because we would need the pilings and that you know to put so a teepee could be on the side of a hill, like, you know, more like camping style. So like, like those, the Swiss family Robinson style is the vibe, like seeing our future. Okay. And, and you know, so well, I'm hoping that that happens sooner than later. I love that you become the Aaron Brockovich of the Palisades and so much more. And, you know, spreading the word, any listeners that know any one of the policies, what I need right now is any wire sparking in it because they didn't turn the electricity off till

like five o'clock or whatever. Like it's that supposed to go off way. So if I have footage when the Palisades fire started of wire sparking transformers, gonna be really good for the case. So keep that, you know, any juicy scooper. As you see anybody in the Palisades posts and DM them and say, you have anything on your camera roll? Some wire sparking? Well, that's good.

Yeah. All right, well, thank you so much for taking the time. I know how busy you are. Love you. And hopefully you can come back in studio soon when you have a minute and we can all pop in. Well, I think I'll be in your studio once a week coming up. So I'll be available.

Yeah, we're gonna, think we're gonna be sharing the facility very soon here. Once a week coming up. So we'll be available. All right. I love it. Yeah. Got it. I think we're going to be sharing the facility very soon here. Okay. I love that so much. Okay. Love you.

Bye. Bye. All right. That was such a great time talking to Spencer. And now for my interview with the journalist who cracked open the case and is a Ruby Frank expert about family blogging and exposing your kids on social media. Very juicy. Let's go. This episode of Juicy Scoop is sponsored by Booking.com. So I love using Booking.com. You know I travel a lot, but I travel doing different things. Sometimes

I'm by myself, but I bring a couple featured comedians as well. And we need nice hotel rooms that have accommodations. We need a gym. We need the coffee in the room, that type of thing. And then other times I've got my family and maybe you're a family with little kids and you're traveling a lot and you wanna make sure that they're taking care of, that there's enough for them to do the kind of food they like

or maybe you want an included meal for breakfast, which makes it so easy, because you know these kids wake up and they're bouncing around and then they're gonna go jump in the hotel pool. All of that can be found. And Booking.com has a huge variety of options, from hotels to vacation rentals,

and I'm always able to find something that fits my specific needs. I found that Booking.com has something for everyone. No matter who you are, Booking.com helps you find the stay that's ridiculously right for you. Find exactly what you're booking for onrd. Rules apply, Canada only. No purchase necessary. Visit the Tim's app for details.

When you get into an Escape plug-in hybrid, you get the perfect mix. You can chill in electric mode, turn it up in gas mode, or get the best of both in hybrid mode. Choose how you move in the all in one Escape. And right now get a $2,500 rebate on the Escape plug-in hybrid and all 2025 Escape models.

For details, visit your Toronto area Ford store or ford.ca. I have a new Juicy Scoop guest here, recommended by a Juicy Scooper. I love when you guys come across someone interesting that you want me to interview and we've got that today. I've got Fortessa Latife E. Yes. Okay, I said it correctly. Yeah, I really love what you are doing on social media, but I know you're a journalist and you wrote this article for Teen Vogue about influencer parents and the kids that had their whole lives documented

without their consent, because they're children. And I've talked about this on the show a little bit and some of the changes. I think there's only, is there only one state or three states? Three now. And what is that law now that protects those kids and what does that entail? Yeah, so there's one, the first one was in Illinois

and it basically is, so in California, we have the Coogan Law for child actors, which is the 15% of their profits goes into a trust that is saved until they're 18. So that's basically the same kind of idea in Illinois, Minnesota, and California. Oh, at least we have it too. Yeah.

Because I was like, we don't have it. Come on. I know. We just got it. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Because Illinois was the first, right? Illinois was first.

Minnesota was second. And California was third. So let's start out with, you know, you've interviewed quite a few of these kids. But why don't you tell me, because you're a journalist, so why don't you tell me one of the ones that really struck you as like, wow, this is something I really want to explore more. Yeah, sure.

So the main young woman in this story, I call her by the name of Claire. That's a pseudonym. So people are always trying to figure out who it is, but nobody will figure it out. That was very important to me to keep her protected. But she grew up in a YouTube vlogging family. She first went viral when she was a toddler,

and their channel has over a billion views. So it's very popular. And weirdly enough, that doesn't even really narrow it down for who it is, because there are so many family channels that have that many views. Wow. Yeah. And so how did you find her to talk to her?

I found her through an advocate in the space. So there are people who work for protections and I was reaching out to them and I was like, I'm working on this story and they were like, well, we know this young woman and she's in this circumstance and now that I've done a lot of work on that and I've reported on it for the Washington Post

and for Rolling Stone and Teen Vogue and I'm writing a book about it, now people come to me, which is great. So I'm looking for them, but they're looking for me too because they want to tell their stories. And when the first time you wrote an article about this interviewing somebody, how did that come about?

Was that your idea or was that an assignment from your editor? That was my idea. Okay. And what made you think something's not right here and I want to explore more of it and see how children are affected as young adults? Yeah. I mean, I was thinking about basically how there are like reality TV kids, right? And they're also not protected the way that child actors are. And I grew up in the time of like teen mom and 16 and pregnant.

And I would see these kids like now they're reaching the age of 16 and they're still on TV. And I remember watching that and then looking at influencer kids just on my phone on TikTok and thinking, this is the same, but with fewer protections. And it's basically like the parent is the producer. And what does that do to that relationship when your parent makes themselves your boss? So true.

And also with reality TV, the way I know it, and maybe they've changed it, but I don't believe they have, is let's say real housewives. Only the housewife is getting paid. The husband and the kids that are standing in the back with the dog are part of it. And that's, you know, and the only time the kids aren't part of it

is when there's a contentious divorce and the dad is like, screw you, the kids can't be on it till they're 18. And the wife is so mad because she wants the audience to see her make turkey tacos and being a cute mom instead of just throwing wine at people. But I've even talked to some of those housewives when they've been mad about it.

And they're like, no, but my daughter wants to do it. And this was like years ago when I was friendly with one of them and this was the case. And I said, I know you don't want to, I know I don't want to be that friend that says your husband's right, but I'm like, it's not the worst thing in the case. And I said, I know you don't want to, you know, I know I don't want to be that friend that says your husband's right, but I'm like, it's not the worst thing in the world. Like, so what? Then she can come around, hopefully you'll be on TV and she can do it when she's 18. You know, if she if she still feels that way. Yeah, I don't think there's any harm in being cautious

about things like that, especially. So tell me about this interview with this girl. What was her experience like? How is she dealing with it now? How's her relationship with her parents? Tell me everything. Yeah, it was, oh my gosh. I mean, I could have written an entire book just about her. It was just so interesting.

But basically, like I said, she first went viral when she was a toddler. And her parents thought, OK, this is an opportunity. And what did she go viral for? Was she dancing? Was she dancing? Was she cute? What was it? Sassiness?

It was like a skit. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was just like a skit on YouTube. And this was like in the heyday of like when all the family vlogging skits were like doing really well. And kind of, so this would be like before we had Instagram, before we had TikTok.

So this was really where you were watching people, regular people, like you would a TV. Yeah, on YouTube. And when family vlogging was really like at its peak, although I would argue that it's at another peak now, but it's just on TikTok instead of on YouTube. Got it. But yeah, Claire, she just had this experience

where her parents decided, OK, this is going to be our business. We're going to put everything into this. And eventually, they made enough money that they both quit their jobs. They got a new house, they got a new car, all this stuff, they kind of got to like- And how old was she when they got to that place?

Was she a little older then or? She was still a young, she was, I guess I would say like a young adolescent. Okay. Yeah. So it took a few years. Did she have any siblings? I can't share. Okay. Yeah, I don't wanna get too specific with her.

But that's also a burden too, that if you didn't want to do it, right? Yeah. Then it's like, well. Well, that's the thing. So I asked her, have you ever told your parents that you don't want to do this? And she said, I told my dad and he said, okay, yeah, that's fine,

but we're going to have to move out of our new house. Mom and I are gonna have to go back to work. There's not gonna be enough money for nice things. That was the quote that really stuck with me. And so when you're putting that much pressure on a kid, like is that really a choice? I don't know that it is. Right.

So how, when did she finally get out of this situation? Or she's still participating? I can't get into it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So she, like her, so yeah, so she's still anonymous. Nobody knows.

Nobody knows. Oh, oh God. Yeah, nobody knows who she is. Yeah, she did tell me that eventually she wanted to share her actual name and she wanted to, you know, come out against this practice. But I think it's very difficult because people often ask me, like, why aren't more kids speaking out against this?

And I'm like, because that's speaking out against your parents. Like, that's very difficult. That's a I mean, that's your family still, you know? So I don't blame these kids for being cautious. Yeah, it's always that really hard situation because even even when you look back at your own childhood or whatever, and there's things that you might look back and are like, well, that was fucked up. Yeah, like whoops.

But then you're also like, but. They tried their best. Yeah, like, I mean, you know, like, because it's not, it's not, you know, sexual physical abuse or anything like that. So even if you're like, God, can you believe that mom and dad did that whatever, and that was weird. But then you're like, God, can you believe that mom and dad did that whatever and that was weird? But then you're like, you know, no, but still like we, you know, had a nice home and it

was fun and we had some fun life. And also it's like, yeah, there's, it's also because they're young kids, so they aren't mature enough to really like speak or whatever. But then also it's kind of like your own little cult. Yeah, like family is a cult. If you turn on the cult, then the other kids that might still be doing it or, you know, the thing is, it's like, like, if you have a couple kids, and the oldest one, you send to soccer and he's really, really good at soccer, now you're traveling to all the soccer things.

So then the next kid, you're like, let's do soccer. And the third kid, you're like, let's do soccer. If either one of them are not that great at soccer or don't wanna do it, you don't have the bandwidth to go, okay, let's start ice skating with child three. You don't. It's like, so it could be that too. It could be the first kid is a total ham,

loves it, wants to do it, may never wanna stop. But just like a kid that loves gymnastics at six and then at 14 is like I hate it I don't want to do it anymore and the parents are like what we've just put all this but they change their minds so even if your kid was super enthusiastic and into it at a certain age yeah yeah lose interest or they don't want to and the thing is that this isn't just a sport this is a a sport, a thing that the whole world is seeing. Right. And I think it's important to note that even if the child is really interested and wants to be doing this, the onus is on the parents to make sure that there are boundaries

in place and that they're not sharing things that maybe later when they grow up that they'll be like, wait, why was that on there? You know, like if something's like really personal and like, let's say you're three or four years old and you really love being on camera, but then you are a teenager and you're like, why are there YouTube videos of my potty training on, you know, because this is not like,

and I can make these examples because there are so many, like most YouTube families have videos of like, this is how we potty trained so and so and like it has like millions of views and you just like wonder like what it's gonna be like to grow up and be able to look up your potty training on YouTube, I don't know. It's so crazy and you know, did you ever see the movie,

The Truman Show? Yeah. It's so crazy that millions of people are living The Truman Show? Yeah. It's so crazy that millions of people are living The Truman Show and for my audience that doesn't know it, Jim Carrey starred in it and it was this really fascinating idea and I remember reading an article about how the scriptwriter came up with it, the writer of it. This idea of basically this kid doesn't realize he is in the most popular TV show on earth and he doesn't realize he's even in a sound studio until he tries to

leave and it's like the backdrop at Paramount that looks like the clouds, and he goes to leave and he can't leave. And yeah, it's like, they don't know. Like I've read some of your stuff and seen some of your videos where, you know, somebody like goes up to people, that goes up to a kid and they're like, why do they know who I am? Why, you know, and that must be like very,

cause they don't know that they're like in a thing. And the thing is that the phone is everywhere and the iPad is everywhere. So the fact that your parent is like going like this, like since from the moment you're like six months old, you're used to that. But then all of a sudden you're like eight and someone's like, yeah.

Oh, I saw it. And then you're like, what? Like there was something, was that you that wrote the thing where the person's like, oh, I saw it. And you're like, what? There was something, was that you that wrote the thing where the person's like, why did everyone see my dance or something? It was like, what was that story? Yeah, I mean, there's a few that are like that, but it's like, in my book, the research that I'm doing

for my book that's coming out in a year or so, stay tuned because speaking of juicy scoops, I can't even tell you what I've found in the research for this book. But, I mean, kids will literally be, like, in the supermarket. And this influencer mom told me that they were in the supermarket and they're, you know, in the cart, whatever, there's, like, a toddler. And someone comes up and just starts talking to the toddler. And the mom is like, was, like, very taken aback.

And she's telling me, me like that really made me rethink about whether I wanna show them online. She didn't end up changing it, but it is like. She still shows them online. Because you get into a comfortable thing. It's like any job that you're like, I don't really like this job, but the paycheck's worth it. But in this case, it's like the paycheck's worth it,

or this way I can be home with my kids, and I'll just make sure that they don't get kidnapped. But now it's really scary with the AI stuff. So, I mean, not to get gross, but I'm gonna get gross right now. Like when I've done my research, which is really with really younger kids, which is even the grosser, like where they'll say, isn't it strange that this video of this little cute sassy whatever cute thing, two year old, it's been, this video has been saved, you know,

18 million times, saved. I've never even saved one video of anybody's, you know, like I have my own videos on my phone. Who's saving? And then how many times has been shared? And you, but me, as like a young mom, I see some little sassy Shirley Temple type, you know? Which is also weird when you really think about Shirley Temple.

But there's some little Shirley Temple type, and I'm like, oh my god, what a little sassy, cute thing. And I'm watching, and I know the mom's feeding her lines and things like that. But then I was like, wait a minute. I'm not saving this, and I'm not sharing this. Who the fuck is? This isn't for another mom who likes seeing little cute kids. This is for a pervert.

I mean, that is a worry, I think. That is definitely a worry. And the New York Times did this incredible and harrowing story where they basically were talking about how there are pedophileophile groups who like search through this like influencer content. And so it's difficult. And share it with each other.

Yeah. And I mean, these parents also are aware of this as a problem because when in my reporting, I've talked to parents and I've asked them, is this something that you worry about? And so for example, I talked to this mom who has twin daughters. They're very young and one of them is a dancer. And so obviously, she wears like dancer clothes.

And like you said, like someone normal would see that and it's just like, oh, a kid like dancing, whatever. But I asked her, do you worry about like posting things that people might like use it in the wrong way? And she said, I do worry. And I noticed that people save more like when it's the dancing content. And so I asked her what she does and she said,

why only share it once in a while? And I understand, like what I hear from parents is that we can't let people, bad people dictate how we share online. But... But the child can't give that consent. Like when we grew up, you know, it's like, even if I did a play and they filmed it for the school, I don't think we ever put that VHS tape ever in the TV

to ever watch again. Never. Like as if we're gonna sit down and be like, you know what, let's watch Heather's Ave Maria. Like we never did, you know? Totally. And you know, and it is, when it first started, it was so great that a grandparent could like,

you know, follow and everything. And now it's just like, yeah, to see every, yeah, every little weird thing, every awkward thing, every, you know, like you were saying, oh, but getting back to the toddler thing, this was really disturbing. So there was, when I followed this girl who was kind of exposing it too, there was this woman

and she would, what's that thing what people do when they're just eating food called a monkey? Oh, mukbang. What is it called? Mukbang. How did that name even come about? I'm not sure. Anyway, it's just like people eating.

So they would put their little beautiful little whatever one year old in the high chair. And now she's going to try this, you know. Well, they give her a big long popsicle. It's the first time she's going to try a popsicle. And this was 30 million views of her sucking on a long popsicle. And to think that what that could become with the help of AI, it's just and this is this is your child. This is your and when it was brought to this woman's attention, I don't even think she removed it.

Yeah, I mean, even like regular parents are worried about this kind of stuff. Like I wrote a story for the Washington Post about regular non-influencer parents who are deciding that they're not gonna show their kids online at all because they're worried about AI, they're worried about online footprint, they're worried about privacy. And so, you know, people are making this decision

as technology changes, they're just like, why? Why even like take the risk? Why? Yes, in the photo, text, they have a family shared album and email. Like, you're right. Like why? So you told this one, you interviewed this one girl about

when she got her period. Can you tell that situation? Yeah, so her mom was a mommy blogger. So not, she was like when, so there were like the mommy bloggers came first and then the family vloggers came on YouTube And then after that came Instagram and tick-tock. So this was and what years what did this kind of begin? I would say that the first mommy bloggers got really big around 2005 to 2008 So it's been just about 20 years, okay

Which is why I think it's so fascinating that it took so long for legislation to happen because this has been a thing for two decades now. But this young woman, her mom was a mommy blogger and when she got her period for the first time, her mom got a sponsored brand deal for menstrual pads and so she had to do a brand deal about getting her period for the first time. And she said it was mortifying and she wanted to crawl on the floor.

So the child also had to participate. It wasn't just the mom saying, oh my God. Yeah. That is like so awful. Like, is there anything? It's so personal and it's so difficult. And like, I just think about like,

when I got my period for the first time and how like, how hard it was and how scary and how weird you feel. And like, imagine that like being online and like, and like that kind of stuff is like still happening, you know? I wonder, and like, I wonder who even thought to do the brand deal.

Like, was it a woman executive? I'm gonna guess maybe it wasn't. Because I just think sometimes, I just think sometimes men, they just don't get it. They just don't understand because it's not their experience. And it's like, in raising my sons, I feel like I've done a really good job in telling them.

But it's also been a education for me in how it's not really men's fault. They just have a totally different life experience than us. So it's like, they don't know what it's like to get a period and have it for 40 years. They don't know every month. Yeah, totally. You know, it's like kind of insane. Now, what is the Ruby Frank? Can you remind everybody of who Ruby Frank is and what's happening with her situation? So Ruby Frankie was a huge family vlogger. Frankie, yeah.

Their channel was called Eight Passengers. They were Mormon, they lived in Utah, which most, not most, but many family vloggers. Yeah. Which is also interesting. Yeah, which is a whole thing. They went from like MLMs to, you know, and now there's so many reality shows now

in Salt Lake City with the Mom Talk. I know. And Selling Salt Lake is another show about realtors in Salt Lake. And yeah, it's kind of interesting. Yeah. They're busy. Yeah. But yeah, Ruby Frankie, they interesting, yeah. They're busy. Yeah.

But yeah, Ruby Frankie, they had 2 and 1 half million subscribers at their peak. And she eventually ended up being charged and arrested on aggravated child abuse. It was just this terrible story. And people were fascinated by it because it was like this picture perfect YouTube family vlogger, and then behind the scenes like this terrible thing and just to remind it She and her husband had separated

She was living right or were her kids living with her podcast partner who was like teaching yeah, it was very I have this different way of Disciplining the kids. Yeah, And there were people that would watch these videos in which she was basically telling on herself as an abuser, saying, oh, well, I got a call from the school that my daughter needed me to bring a lunch. And I was like, no, I told her to pack her own lunch and she didn't, so she can starve.

And this, another kid like didn't have a bed. Yeah, for a while, yeah. And she would share that. And so this, so then the kids were like living or a couple of the kids that were abused were living, where were they living? At the other woman's house? Yeah, with Ruby and this other woman's name

was Jodie Hildebrandt. And so that the, allegedly that the kids were living with them. I don't think it's allegedly because they were convicted. Yeah, no, they were. I just don't know like how long they were like, I'm just being a journalist. Like, I don't know how long they were living there or whatever. But that is where they were arrested is at this house.

And it's finally a child. What are the children escape escape from the house and was like starving and had like emaciated and had like masking tape on his legs where he was. So his limbs were tied together. Yeah. And they were like 10 and 12, I think those kids were. And so the older daughter, so they,

they've been convicted, both the women. Do you recall how long Ruby, the mother is doing? How much time? So it's, it depends, but at least four years and up to 60. So she had four counts and she got one to 15 years for each count. So at least four years and up to 60, which is the max you can get in Utah.

Wow. And so tell me what you know about her daughter who is the, now what, of the six kids, what number is the daughter? She's the eldest. And she has a book. It just came out today. OK. Yeah.

And what can you tell us about her story? I mean, it's a terrible story. It's obviously, it's very complicated because there's like the family vlogging aspect and then there's this thing, Sherry, the daughter, she calls it like the kind of like cult aspect with the whole thing with Jodi and all of her teachings But what I took from it at least with the family vlogging is that?

Sherry doesn't think and I interviewed her for Rolling Stone She told me she doesn't think family vlogging should be legal at all ever I asked her if there are any exceptions and she said no She doesn't think that that's how her childhood should have been. She doesn't think it was fair, the privacy, the consent, the money. Do you recall how old she was when it began?

She was around 11 or 12, I wanna say. That's a great age to have a camera in your face. Like a little awkward little adolescent. And then was she also probably had the burden of caring for the other kids as well as making all this content and having to be a delight all the time, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, but being the oldest is obviously very difficult.

Yeah. Wow. OK, so what else did she tell you? Yeah. I mean, she, it was, there were a few bomb shells in the story. She said that Ruby and Jodie were in some type of relationship. I mean, she it was there were a few like bombshells in the story. She said that Ruby and Jodie were in some type of relationship, which was like lovers or. Yeah. Yeah. So that was huge.

She there was always questions about like how involved her dad was and like where he was when all of this was happening. But he had kind of been like pushed out of the family. And so he wasn't around when did you remember how she met this woman, Jodie, if she was married at one time, how did how did this woman come in and infiltrate their lives? Jodie was recommended to them as like a therapist type figure, but it turned out later that she had had her mental health licensure revoked years before.

And so I think that's also why Sherry seems to consider her like a cult-like figure is because of this like pull that she had on people and she obviously did. And so did she share anything of like, where was she when the two younger kids were living, you know, what happened? Was she aware this was happening at this time? No. She had already left?

She was in college. She was the oldest, she was in college. And also Jodie and Ruby had kind of driven like a stake in the family. And so Sherry wasn't really allowed to have contact with the other kids because they kind of like, I don't really know why, but they kept Sherry kind of to one side and did the same with the dad.

And so, yeah, it was just terrible. And Sherry as the eldest, you know, was like, she writes in her memoir, she was calling the Department of Child Protective Services over and over. She was asking them, you asking them to do something. And what response was she getting? There wasn't enough to go on. It's interesting because in Utah, specifically,

there are these free-range parenting laws. What does that mean? Well, it's basically that parents should have the final say, and they can like, you know? It's very conservative. Yeah, like if you know, it's very like a very conservative like. Like if you wanna hit your spanker kid or whatever. Yeah, or like you wanna let them like take care of themselves a little bit more than like maybe

in another state that would be like considered neglect, but in Utah it's like considered like free range parenting. Like a free range chicken? That you like let it run around? I guess so. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Oh my God.

Okay. So that made it difficult. The political climate of the state made it difficult also because they're very like, you know, small government and let people do what they want and it's not the state's business and you know, so that made it more difficult. Well I'm excited for you to keep exploring this and tell everybody where they can follow you because you do you're constantly doing interviews with people. Yeah.

And you like mask their voice and stuff. And they are interesting when they share their stuff. It's yeah, it's really incredible stuff. I mean, the things that I've found in the people that I've talked to, it's just incredible. You can find me anywhere online at hifortessa, H-I-F-O-R-T-E-S-A, TikTok, Instagram, wherever. Yeah, I have a lot coming out. And my book is really going to blow people's minds, I think. Thank you so much.

This was great. Follow her. And yeah, be careful what you post. Thanks for having me.