Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Sugar Baby Confessions and Assassin’s Clues
Episode Date: December 12, 2024We are learning more about the Assassin’s privileged life and what may have led him to committing murder. Megan Fox and Machine Gun Kelly broke up. Jay Z’s attorney shares disturbing information.�...�Then I interview Brook Urick, author of “Wink Wink Nudge Nudge: Sexual Exploits and Secrets from Inside a Sugar Daddy Website.” Brook answers all my juicy questions about how she found herself in sugar baby relationships to eventually working for a website and revealing their surprising secrets. So juicy enjoy! • Go to https://bluenile.com to shop Blue Nile, the original online jeweler since 1999! • Save big during SONO BELLO'S FRIENDS AND FAMILY - HOLIDAY SAVINGS EVENT. Schedule your FREE consultation now at HTTPS://SONOBELLO.COM/JUICY • Get on your OUAI to save for the holiday. Go to https://TheOuai.com for 15% off sitewide and enter promo code JUICY. Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald on iTunes, the podcast app, and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPodApple https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: https://juicyscoopshop.com Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Hannah McDonald, Juicy Scoop.
Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
I have such a juicy interview, you guys are gonna die.
But first let's just do a couple updates and hot topics.
I wanna tell you, Patreon is gonna be off the hook
this Friday because I'm going to the Kathy Hilton
holiday party for DirecTV, that's happening.
I'm gonna have that to talk about and so much more.
So make sure you go to heathermcdonnell.net,
join the Patreon, and also that is where you'll get
my tickets to my three shows in February,
February 14th, New York City, DC is February 15th,
and February 16th is in New Jersey,
Red Bank, New Jersey. So get on that.
Okay, you guys, a little bit more about this such a strange situation with this young man
who has been arrested, the assassin. We talked a little bit about it on Tuesday's show. We
obviously know more.
You'll probably know more as you're listening to this as well.
This is the information I have.
As we stated, this kid comes from a great education, great privilege.
He went to an all-boy prep school in which he was the valedictorian.
There's videos of him giving a speech where he comes off just great, then
went to college. And there was a thing that said both of his grandparents had died in
2016, one in 2017. But a couple years ago, he had some back injury. And I don't know
if he went surfing after or before, but he was a surfer.
And he got a surgery that did not go well for him.
And what is being reported is that allegedly that affected his ability to have sex and
that made him what people call an incel, which is this idea that these young men are really turned towards kind of hating
women or they don't have sex with women and they turn inward and become kind of strange.
And it's something with that because he is a good looking guy.
People have shown his social media and he looks very fit and he obviously was a surfer
and he's fit now, what
he appears to be.
And just went down this really crazy dark path and it's a very interesting thing, especially
someone of such great privilege, that you would think, what is it?
What was the psychological break that made this young man decide, I should be doing better
in life, I shouldn't be in pain, this is someone else's fault, this is, you decide, I should be doing better in life. I shouldn't be in pain. This
is someone else's fault. I'm going to do this thing and become a famous hero of the people
by murdering this executive of healthcare. I mean, it's really crazy. I thought it was
weird that he wasn't a McDonald's. I'm like, was he really eating at McDonald's or was
he using the internet so he could open
up his computer because that is what he was doing?
For a few days, he was the hero.
People were dressing like him.
People thought it was great.
There was definitely a lack of empathy for the murder victim's family, his kids, his
mother, anybody that was associated
with him. There was not a lot of outpouring for him online. What was, was like, who is
this hot guy and everything. So it was interesting that he was probably looking at that when
the patron that was at the McDonald's called him in and he was arrested. I just saw a video of
him going into a jail and he's yelling out to the cameras saying, this is an injustice,
this is unfair, this is an injustice to the American people. His parents, I guess, have
spoken slightly saying, we are just devastated,
but that's about it that I've seen.
Like I said, I'm just gathering it now.
So really weird and awful.
Also people are saying, why do we know so much
about this guy yet we still know very little
about who attempted to assassinate Trump. There were other shooters recently
that we don't know anything about, maybe because that man was killed and this one is going
to go on trial. I don't know. It's just very, very strange. So that's where we are with
that, with Luigi Mangione. And I'm sure we'll know more and more.
Okay, Megan Fox, who is expecting her fourth child, her first with Machine Gun Kelly, they
have broken up. TMZ is reporting they have broken up. And the latest report is people
wondered if her co-star for a movie that's coming out, it's called Servience or something,
about a year ago, she was with her co-star who's a good-looking guy named Michelle Morones,
if there was something going on between them.
But the social media in which they were flirting and doing all this was, I think, over a year
ago in which she obviously got with Machine Gun Kelly within the year to, you know, procreate.
So who knows why they broke up? Machine Gun Kelly and she are twin flames. They share the blood thing
they have on and off and on and off with their relationship. So who really knows? Also a little bit update on the Jay Z. You know, in talking about it, I read your comments
and you know, Kate had said like, you know, on Tuesday's show, who would let him write
this statement? Well, his attorney is Alex Spiro and he has now spoken on Jay Z's behalf
and he has an interesting thing to say. He said a young woman has contacted their law firm and said, I just want you to know
that I contacted Busby's law firm to look into the representing me in a sexual assault
case.
But it didn't involve P. Diddy or Jay-Z or anybody else.
And they were saying, well, when did you meet P. Diddy?
And the girl was like, well, I didn't. And then they were like, well, when were you given drugs in this particular
case? And she's like, well, I wasn't. And so that is their, they're now saying that
they got this call from this woman to say that maybe, you know, Busby's firm is not
really, maybe they are sort of the ambulance chaser of this and maybe they're encouraging
people to say things that aren't particularly true to add in the narrative of what they're
saying. Also, people said in that initial statement that Jay-Z said that he was, he
never really said it didn't happen, just that this was like a travesty and this is wrong
and all this other stuff. So that's a little update
on that. All right, you guys, as I said, great interview. And here we go, go to HeatherMcNaul.net
for Patreon and everything else. And now for the juicy interview.
Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited for my interview guest. She has written
a real juicy book right here. And here she is, Brooke
Yurick. Welcome. This book is excellent.
Thank you.
It's really juicy, really good.
Thank you.
Wink Wink Nudge Nudge is the name of the book. Shhh. Okay, girl. So we've talked a little bit before booking this interview
and why don't you give a little background
of how you came about writing the book
and then we'll get into some of the subjects that you cover.
Well, thanks for having me, Heather.
I'm really happy that you responded to me
because I love the show.
Oh, thank you.
And this really is a juicy scoop,
so I think your audience is gonna like it.
So I worked behind the scenes at Seeking Arrangement,
which is a popular, notorious sugar daddy website.
And I started there as a sugar baby.
I actually got the job because I was cast
in one of their reality shows.
It was not a reality show.
And the casting was basically me being told to lie on camera.
And so I ended up meeting the people who work
for the company and later on ended up working there
while also trying my own luck as a sugar baby.
And I was very young.
This was from the time I was 21 to the time I was 26.
And-
So what years is that approximately?
Started in 2013.
So the book actually takes place from 2013 through 2018.
And that's the way I've written the parts,
is they take place over like different years.
And I wrote it in first person, present tense.
So you can see my evolution over that time,
because I really did have my own coming of age
and started to realize the patterns that were yucky.
And at first, when you're young,
you think, what's the big deal?
And I feel like it's always-
What's the big deal?
You mean being like a sugar baby
or having transactional relationships with men?
Exactly.
And I live in Las Vegas,
so it really wasn't far off
from the lifestyle I was kind of already living
as a 21-year-old girl in Las Vegas,
going out to clubs and partying with rich guys.
So when you read it, you can see how
the changes are incremental.
Like this doesn't seem like such a big deal,
and then this isn't so far from that,
and then you just kind of go down this rabbit hole,
and then on the other end,
you don't even recognize yourself.
And I was paid for sex a couple times.
I realized that wasn't for me.
I didn't like the straight up transaction of it.
And I was looking for a rich boyfriend.
And I thought that that's what you would find on the website,
but I was sorely mistaken.
These websites are not places where good Prince Charmings
come to sweep you off your feet.
They're places where predators hide in plain sight
and use the marketing tactics of the website as an agency
to recruit and convince and coerce young people
into lives of sex work.
And it's scary.
It's actually terrifying. OK, So that was an amazing introduction.
Oh, thank you.
There's no way no anyone's going to turn off this interview now. But of course,
I want to go back and ask lots of questions. With the website Seeking Arrangements,
I had Rachel Ucatel on We've Since Become Friends. And her story that I recall when she was on
was someone discovered her on the website
and wrote an article about it.
And she made lemonade out of lemons.
And they hired her to be almost like a spokesperson.
And when she was doing that, you know, her in presenting it was, yeah, this is a dating site
for women who want a man of a certain level and is putting it out there on the table. Like,
if you want to date, this is what I expect. And there was like a thing of like, you know,
this girl's wish list. So you know that these are the Prada sunglasses
that she would like if you'd like to,
you know, a lot of men really get off
and you know, the way it's presented,
these rich guys get off and they love to buy gifts
and you know, a $500 pair of sunglasses,
why not get the ones you want?
You don't want them just going buying ones
that don't fit your face.
So like that type of thing.
That relationship with her in that business ended and I'm not getting into why it ended
because I don't really remember the details and I don't want to get into like a legal
thing when it ended.
And I actually had the owner also on Juicy Scoop promoting the website and what it was.
He also at the time had a very young girlfriend.
I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Do you think he'll get married and how does her family feel about it?
With that all being said, yeah, I feel like I have kind of been following the world of
sugar babies.
I did a lot of episodes on it when it kind of exploded. There were billboards probably around 2017, 18, like off of Sunset Boulevard and things
like that.
And I talked to people that called in and wrote me.
And I remember calling a couple of people myself just hearing their stories.
And it's interesting because we're going to get into that too, but their stories were
similar to what you and I discussed, which we'll share on the show, that they were not
that a lot of them would meet these guys on a date, have sex with them, thinking now it'll
turn into a relationship in which I'll get my $10,000 a month and see them twice and
go on a shopping spree.
And they either never got paid at all for the initial
time because it wasn't a boyfriend girlfriend yet, right? It was like an audition. And then
they never hear from them again. So essentially, the man got sex for free.
Yes. And when you think about that Prince Charming fantasy, right, it's a bit of a fallacy
because...
It's a pretty woman fantasy, right? It's a bit of a fallacy because... It's a pretty woman fantasy, right? It's too good to be true for a reason because it's not true. Like, I mean, just let's logically
think about it for two seconds. Why would a super rich, generous man need a website
to find someone to spoil? It just doesn't make any sense. Like, when you think about
the conundrum we're in with dating right now, it's that the high-value
men have so many options and they can easily get sex without a website.
So why would a high-value man need some sort of agency to get girls?
That is the first thing that just isn't true.
And then the other part of it is the law of supply and demand dictates there are not enough
rich men to go around.
So if you simply think that every single girl who joins the site is going to find some rich
man, where are they?
They don't exist, right?
So the majority of the men use the website and they pick up where Seeking's marketing leaves off, right?
And they say, oh, yes, I'm this rich guy and I'm going to take you to Aruba, which is something
I write about in my book.
My first experience on the website, I was coerced and tricked into sex.
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So why don't we hear about your first experience?
Okay, well, let's go back a little bit on your life
because it's a pretty juicy life to start.
So in the book, you do share
some of your teenage sexual experiences,
which aren't unheard of, but definitely not,
didn't come out of committed love relationships. It seems like you were sort of seeking something as a teenager. And I want to ask you a little
about that because you are bonafide across all, Kate, very attractive.
Oh, thank you.
But you are. I mean, did you not, like when you were like, did you not feel a pretty privilege?
Like, or was it the pretty privilege of being pretty
and getting attention that made you be a little bit
promiscuous at a young age?
Like, what is it?
Because I mean, it's like.
It's a good point.
I certainly had a glow up.
I don't think when I write about an experience I had
when I was 14, when I was preyed upon
through AOL Instant Messenger, and the man lured me to a motel room to have sex with
me.
And he was much older.
He was in his 20s, right?
Yeah, he was 26, and I was 14.
And in my mind, I thought like this older guy likes me.
I was like, wow, like he must think I'm really pretty.
And I wasn't super confident back then. Like I don't think I was like super attractive
as like a young kid.
I mean, maybe I was, but I didn't feel that way necessarily.
So to have a guy like tell me I'm so sexy and beautiful,
like we know now exactly what he was doing.
He was coercing me and luring me with false promises.
You know what's really interesting is you may have never seen this movie because you're
younger, but it's a movie called Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
Oh my gosh, I love Fast Times.
Okay, so do you remember this part? So Jennifer Jason Leigh is working at the pizza place.
And Phoebe Cates, and this book was written by a guy who these were his high school stories
experiences in a mall in like Riverside or something.
I don't know where it was.
In the mid to late 70s.
And so she's like, you gotta have, you know,
you gotta divergent yourself.
This guy is hot, he works at the pizza place.
That guy was about 26, drove a car, you know,
and I think he said he was 26.
She lied and said she was 17 or
something. He picked her up, took her to a baseball field where no one was, and then
she lost it to him and she like never heard from him again. And so that was pre, you know,
that was pre internet. All the internet has done is made this behavior that always existed
much easier.
And at a much greater scale.
It's funny you mentioned that.
I have not thought about that scene in so long,
but yes, I remember it perfectly.
It's literally your story, but without the internet,
it was just, you would have met him
working at an ice cream store, you know?
Exactly, and he would have known just what to say to me.
And I mean, that's what men on any dating site
or in the world like, I mean, yes, they do this.
But the problem with this particular website
is that it preys on vulnerable populations
and it sets them up to fail.
And then the shame and secrecy of sex work
and not wanting to share their experience
because they're ashamed of what happened to them
because they're ashamed of getting conned
because they're scared that they were soliciting and they were asking for it,
so they don't come forward. So I would guess there's thousands, hundreds of thousands,
millions maybe of victims out there. Because when you think about it, one predator can hit dozens,
hundreds, thousands of girls. The site's been around for almost two decades. So the
good ones, if there are any good ones, they get off the site.
So do you think because your first few times of having sex were young and they were not
these long committed, you know, I'm going to marry you, let's just have sex now that
we're 15 or whatever kind of relationship. Do you think then, you know, then your perspective
along with media and everything else was skewed as sex is casual, it's not really a big deal,
it's not so what that I had sex with this person doesn't mean that he used me, doesn't
mean that I'm a slut. Like what was your perspective?
I was, I guess, kind of tricked into thinking that sex could be casual as a woman.
And I don't believe that anymore.
I don't think women can have casual sex because of the hormones that we excrete when we're
having it.
It's the bonding hormone, whereas men don't release that.
They release testosterone.
So it's really easy for them to sleep around and not think much of it.
But for women, that's not true.
And when I was young, I was kind of force-fed birth control, because at even the slightest
hint of thinking about having sex, I was given a deprevera shot.
Your mom took you?
Yes.
My mom took me to—
And did she have a talk with you?
Was she like, I don't know if you're thinking of having sex or not, but let's get you on
the pill?
Like, what was the discussion about sex before marriage or whatever in your home?
She thought that I was going do what I was gonna do anyway
and wanted to embolden me to make my own decisions.
And good on her because she was doing
what she thought was right.
And I think at the time that was kind of the thought
is that, well, you know, their kids will be kids,
they're gonna do what they're gonna do.
So you might as well have them be safe.
And I mean, the real truth
that I actually didn't mention
in the book, but it's sort of an extension
of that experience when I was 14.
So after he had sex with me.
The AOL guy.
Yes, the guy from AOL.
He told me to go get the morning after pill.
And so I did.
Because you didn't use any protection at that point.
And so I did.
And I didn't really, like I detail kind of my mindset
at that time, how I didn't really know what was going on.
I was like, I knew like a little bit,
but I didn't know what the morning after pill was.
Like I really didn't know.
And so I went to Planned Parenthood,
I think the next day, got the morning after pill
and they gave me birth control.
So a spiral of birth control.
And I had it in my drawer and my mom found it.
And she was like, what is this?
I told you that if you ever wanted to have sex,
come to me and we'll go get birth control together.
And so I was like, oh, I don't know,
I just made up some lie or whatever.
And at the time I hadn't had sex very many times.
I probably had sex like three or four times. And I started taking the birth control pill
and just thought that that's what you do if you want to have sex. And it wasn't until I was
probably like 28 that I realized that birth control made me unstable and made me like seek
out sex. Like made me like very horny and like willing to have sex, made me very horny
and willing to have sex with basically whoever
because your hormones are all out of whack.
And I'm not saying this is true for everyone.
I'm just talking about what happened to me.
But it took me a long time to understand that
because I didn't have a chance to get off of it
because it's kind of shoved down your throat at the doctor.
They're like, oh, well, you're having sex.
You gotta get on birth control.
And I just don't think that's right to do. I mean, in general, I don't think it's right
to shove pills down people's throats when you could treat the symptom. But to go back
to kind of what you're saying about my mindset at the time, I was very struck with the like
slutty characters on TV, like One Tree Hill, there's that girl named Brooke.
I never watched One Tree Hill.
So tell me about Brooke.
The other Brooke.
The other Brooke.
Yes.
Your Brooke and the character's name was Brooke.
So of course, I was like, oh, her name's Brooke too.
And she's like a white girl with brown hair.
I was like, oh, cool.
And it's Sophia something.
She's a fantastic actor, so I love her.
But she is this kind of floozy kind of character
who's always getting lots of attention from men
and she kind of experiments with drugs.
She's kind of like the bad girl,
but she gets all of this attention
and has storylines that revolve around her.
And back then when I was watching it,
I was like, oh, this is a character I can play.
And this is when you're like 14, 15.
Yeah, I was so young.
And then I actually rewatched the show recently.
And I was just like, oh my god, I
can't believe they were showing this to people.
And I'm curious, and I don't know.
What I realized in just a few years
is how many of these things that did influence my mindset about romance life, all that, are
all male writers.
They're all male.
Like you know, even joking about bad, what I call dry bar 2000 romantic comedies, meaning
they play them at the dry bar, are like almost all of them are written by guys.
You know, the 27 dresses, all these kind of things.
It's like, what do you know? are like almost all of them are written by guys. You know, the 27 dresses, all these kinds of things.
I was like, what do you know?
You know, a bunch of baseball cap wearing, you know,
writers in a room drinking coffee,
wrote this movie about women and love,
and you know, and if they're, you know, working,
if they are successful and they can't find a man
and they're tripping and they're falling over themselves.
And once, you know, that whole cliche.
But I want to go back to one thing which is crazy.
So I remember watching some talk show before I was even probably a teenager.
And it was this woman who said, I give my daughter the birth control in a little cup
with other vitamins.
And she doesn't know she's on it.
Oh my God.
So this way if she does have sex, because the chances are no matter how much you beg
your daughter to be open with you, she might not and she's protected. So she would take the little
pop it out of the spiral, put it in with whatever, vitamin C and da-da-da. I remember thinking,
put it in with whatever, vitamin C and da da da. And I remember thinking, oh, that's really genius.
I remember thinking that's kind of a genius move of a mom
so that their daughter doesn't get knocked up.
Because also when I was growing up,
there were like these things called
afterschool specialists and stuff.
And teen pregnancy was like, if you get pregnant,
you are thrown out on the street and your parents
hate you and you are living in an apartment and then your boyfriend and you will eventually
hate each other and like it just was the worst stories.
And parents would tell their kids, if you get pregnant, you're on your own.
Then it's like then we saw, you know, teen mom where the 50 year old mom totally
embraced the grandchild of the 16 year old.
And they were really fucked up too.
But it was a different thing where it's not people weren't throwing away their daughter
and grandchildren the way even if if that was to happen to me, I don't know that my
parents would do that.
But that was like the fear.
So it was a really you really, really didn't want to get pregnant when I was growing up. And if you did, you know, you're going to do something about it
or give the baby up or just be completely have your life ruined.
And so I kind of thought, oh, that's sort of genius. But your reaction is mostly when I've told
people that they're like, that's just horrible. I'm like, I don't know, like, is it? Like, I kind of wonder if nowadays with the rise of like Ozempic and stuff, would somebody
go and go into their daughter's room and poke her in the middle of the night and have her
not know that she's on Ozempic if she's struggling with weight?
Like, I don't know that parents wouldn't do something like that.
Like, I get it's a weird, weird thing, something I would never do.
Yeah, right.
But like, the same way of your mom being honest, I think there's, I wonder how many other parents
maybe weren't honest about that because the fear was so strong of like, yeah, it's weird.
So then you, so then what happened after high school?
Did you go to college or did you, where was your romantic life at that point?
After high school, I went to UNLV to college and I ended up meeting a guy who made my fake
ID and we got into a relationship and I found out about a year into dating him that he had
another girlfriend and was cheating on me the whole time. So at like 1920,
that really like warped my view of relationships.
And it kind of made me lean into the sugar life
because I thought that if a guy who said he loved me so much
could do that to me,
then like maybe I wasn't ready for love
and maybe I just needed to find myself. And
then because of birth control and the idea that you can just have fun and have casual
sex, that's what I thought I would do. And it's not until looking back that you realize
how those things really messed you up. And it did mess me up.
You talked about One Tree Hill, but I feel like when Sex and the City started, we talked
a little bit about this, when Sex and the City started, I was recently married.
But these girls were basically just about my age, a couple years older than my age,
the characters.
And then of course, Kim Cattrall was supposed to be like 40 and the other girls were supposed
to be like 32, 33 when the show started.
And of course, I love the show because it's so entertaining.
But I remember watching it, you know, I'm from LA, I have friends, and I was like, you
know, that were single and stuff.
And I remember the amount of casual sex that they were all having.
I was like, this is not my friends.
Like who are the—does this exist in New York but not in LA?
Like who is having this much sex?
And you know Miranda
has sex with some guy after working out at the gym. I'm like who the fuck has sex after
the gym? You know who does? Gay men. You know who's writing the show? Gay men.
Yeah, right.
You know so it was like there were some of that where I think glamorize like what a fun
time to be single and dating and da da da da. And I kind of wonder if there was all
the young girls that were maybe watching that
at like 14.
I was watching it at 30, but watching it at 14 who now are in their mid-30s, like did
it affect their view of dating and romance and taking more control, which could be seen
as you know, not falling for these creepy guys, but also it could mean in your case
like, no, I'm going to get something out of this.
If I'm going to have sex with someone, I'm not going to clean the guy's house, be a loving
thing and then still have him cheat on me.
Fuck that.
If every guy is an asshole, I might as well get a purse and is that sort of the toot that
you had?
Yeah, that is exactly the toot.
And I started on Tinder.
I was on Tinder when it was in beta.
I found it in the games section of the app store.
And I was like, what's this game?
I thought it was hot or not.
And then I got on it.
I was like, oh, it's an app where
you can date people.
So I started meeting guys on Tinder
and would have casual sex with them.
And then they would ghost me. I wouldn't get anything.
So I was like, well, I'm already online dating. I'm already kind of living this lifestyle in Vegas.
Like it really didn't seem so far off to believe that. And actually the reason that I ended up
joining the site initially was because my friend told me about it and she told me they were doing
a reality show casting. So me at 21, I was like, oh shoot, like a reality show?
Like, yes.
So I signed up for the website,
emailed casting at seekingarrangement.com.
So this isn't Tinder now, this is Seeking Arrangement.
Oh, sorry, yes, that's how I got on Seeking Arrangement.
Oh, okay, so first you just did Tinder for a while.
Yes, and I found that myself.
I found it like in the app store.
And then between Tinder and actually reaching out to the Seeking Arrangements, did you have
any kind of sugar baby, light or whatever experience that you cultivated on your own?
I was going to the club on the weekends.
I would have guys pay for my nice dinners and obviously the bottle service and whatever.
So that was happening.
And then I saw my friends
getting things from paid for by guys. But I didn't have any of those experiences. I
actually was scammed by a sugar daddy type guy.
Let's hear that story.
So he took me and my friend on this weekend.
To where?
To well, we were in Las Vegas to Newport. So we just like went for the weekend to Newport,
just like for a couple nights.
And did he like pay for your flight?
Yes.
OK.
Paid for everything.
He was coming off a big win in Vegas.
So first we had to.
How old was this guy?
Was he cute?
What's the deal?
I mean, he wasn't like that bad.
He definitely like wasn't cute.
He was probably like 38, 39 or something like that.
And you guys were in your early 20s?
I was 21.
OK.
And why could you take a friend?
Did you think that you were going to have to perform a threesome, or did you just think you could guys were in your early 20s? I was 21. Okay. And why could you take a friend?
Did you think that you were gonna have to perform
a threesome or did you just think you could take a friend
and figure it out?
She actually took me.
Oh, okay.
So we had gone out to dinner with them one night.
I guess she knew one of his friends or whatever.
We went to STK one night and they spent like $1,000
probably on dinner and then they gave us money
to go to the blackjack table.
And so I ended up going home after that,
but she stayed with him.
And the next day she calls me and she's like,
hey, get down here, we're at Nordstrom, we're shopping.
Like, he's asking about you.
And I was like, okay, cool.
So I go down to Nordstrom,
he bought us like some swimsuits and stuff.
And he's like, do you wanna go to Newport for the weekend?
And I was like, sure.
So we went to-
But I have to ask a question.
When you're trying, when you're, so you get there,
cause I always wanted this too. When you're trying, when you're, so you get there, because I always wanted this too.
When you're in a situation with either sugar baby or just a new boyfriend who's generous
and he's like, let's go shopping.
This is where I think it would be hard for me.
How, where do you go from just picking up like, you know, a $200 outfit to going, oh,
can I see the Chanel quilted bag for 11 grand?
Like, how do you waver that?
And did he say, I'm just buying you bikinis,
and I want to see you come out and model?
What was the story there?
So it's funny.
I actually write about that push and pull in my head of, like,
what do I get?
Do I get too much?
I don't want to squander the opportunity.
But I also want to walk away with something.
So no, I didn't have to model the bikinis
or anything like that.
He wasn't even with us when we were shopping.
We were like doing our own thing.
And then he came back, I guess,
from wherever he was shopping for shoes
or something like that, and just went to the till
and he just paid for everything.
So it wasn't, I didn't feel like I had to do anything
with him.
I mean, he was like coming off a big win.
So I think it was just like pennies to him.
He just like wasn't really, and they love to,
that's the thing is like guys love to flaunt it
when they got it because they want you to know
they got it like that.
And that's the only reason.
So then he was like, oh, do you want to go to Newport?
And I was like, all right, sure.
Like this might be a sugar daddy situation.
Like, what are we going to do?
So we ended up going to Newport.
It was kind of weird.
I didn't do anything with him.
I don't think she did anything with him, like sexual or whatever.
What was the room situation?
It was a double queen, like kind of near the water.
And she slept in the bed with him.
And when I woke up, his arm was around her,
and he was like snoring.
But I don't think they did anything.
I think we were both all, we were all really drunk.
So I think we just kind of like stumbled home or whatever.
And then the next day we left.
And at the time he had told me that he was a bookie.
So he needed people to place bets for him in Las Vegas.
And I was like, oh shoot.
I was like, I'm 21, like I could do that.
Obviously I didn't really think it was illegal at the time,
which now I obviously know it is. But I was like, okay, sure. Yeah,
I'll do that for you. So the next week he calls me up and well, there was another situation
where he had come out, I think promptly after the Newport trip, he came back out to Vegas
and stayed at the Cosmopolitan and we ended up getting him kicked out of his suite.
Why? How?
Because, and this isn't the case anymore, I think, because of us. They probably changed
this. But there's this suite on the 14th floor. It's like a wraparound suite. And the railing
of the balcony is kind of flush with the rooftop of Marquis Day Club or nightclub or whatever.
And one of the guys that was staying there was like, hey, look, we can go on the roof. Like, do you guys want to go on the roof?
And the guy who's the scammer guy was like,
no, no, don't go out there.
We're going to get in trouble.
And so then like after a few shots,
we like went out on the roof of Marquis
and like, we're like, we like took a picture out there.
And then when we came back, there was like a knock
at the door and it was security.
And they were like, you gotta go, like kicking us out.
Cause we had obviously like gone on,
we're not supposed to go on the fricking roof.
And they kicked him out, like back up the shit?
They kicked him out of his suite.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was like a comp.
Because like that's when you spend a lot of money
at the casinos, you get like a free room or whatever.
So yeah, basically they were like, you're out of here.
And so he was obviously very perturbed about that.
So after that happened, I think it was like a few days later,
I felt bad about that happening, after that happened, I think it was like a few days later, I felt bad about
that happening, kind of guilty. And he called me up and he's like, hey, I've got this bet
for you to place. You got to make it fast though, because the game is about to start
and like you got to go down there and do it. And I was like, I don't have any money for
that. He's like, no, I'll pay you back. I'll pay you back. Just like do whatever you can
to like get the ticket. Like I promise I'll pay you back.
So what did you have to spend?
It was $500.
And it was literally, I had like $512 in my checking account.
And I was like, all right, like he's gonna pay me back.
Like big risk, big reward.
I was like, well, if it wins, I win 6,000.
And then maybe I'll have to split it with him
or something like that.
But I was like, shoot, like I could come up.
And the ticket was not a winner.
He ghosted me and I was out $500.
And so I was destitute right in need of money. And I was still trying to like recoup my funds.
And I paid for my own college like I was like working at the time I was actually working for
an adult novelty wholesaler, which I talked about in the book, which kind of like got me into the
sex industry without really being in the sex industry because I was selling like these novelties. I was
working at like a warehouse basically for a manufacturer.
You're selling like what like dildos and stuff?
It was a male chastity device. Yeah.
What is that?
Exactly. It's like a fetish, like a tease play device.
For straight men or gay men?
For both. I mean, for I I guess, people with a penis.
And it's like a medical-grade polycarbonate device that goes over the shaft, and there's
a ring that goes behind the testicles.
You might have seen them in novelty shops and stuff, and it traps the balls between
the ring and the cage, and there's a lock on the top.
Listen.
All that effort, I'm like,
I'd rather just get it one and done and go to bed.
This is a lot.
Anyway, go on.
Yeah, I mean, I don't wanna kink shame,
but I worked there for three years.
I don't wanna be there.
It's just not my thing.
It's just a lot of effort.
And the people who are very interested in that
have weird proclivities and whatever.
Anyway, so I ended up working there
because my mom is a graphic designer
and she actually designs packaging for novelties. It's kind of her niche that she developed proclivities and whatever. Anyway, so I ended up working there because my mom is a graphic designer
and she actually designs packaging for novelties.
It's kind of her niche that she developed after this job.
Anyway, it was all very weird,
but it was a family-run company.
It really wasn't weird when I was there.
It was only weird when I was answering the phones
and talking to people with their wiener in their hand
or whatever.
Anyway, so I was working there at the time.
I write about it a little bit.
Didn't have a lot of money and was broke
after that guy scammed me.
And then my friend told me about this little website
where you can get guys to give you money.
And I was like, oh, really?
I was like, well, that's not so far off
from what I'm already experiencing, right?
These guys are signing away $5,000 at the club
for a couple bottles. Like what what's so far-fetched about me thinking that they would just give me some of that
money?
Or sometimes the guys will give us money to play at the tables.
So it really wasn't that far off.
And then the reality show idea, that sends a deal for me.
I was like, oh, shoot.
Like, now explain that.
So they send out email.
This is back in 2013, okay, so they would send out emails to the
girls on the site, the sugar baby accounts that said, hey, we're doing a reality show
casting.
Let me know if you want to be on the reality show.
So of course I'm like, yes, like I want to be on the reality show, you know, like I don't
want to get a job.
I want to go be a reality star.
So I know, right?
And so I emailed them.
And I was like, hey, I really want to do this.
And like 20 minutes later, the guy calls me.
He's like, hey, you're perfect for this opportunity.
Like, all you need to do is like come down to the palms
and like this and that.
And I write about exactly what happened.
But basically, it was a one-off show.
And like I told him, I was like, I
don't have any experience on the site like
I've I literally just signed up I've never had a sugar daddy like I don't know he's like
oh that's fine don't worry about it I'm like okay so I go down there and it was a complete
farce like I was so terrible like what year around 2013 okay so the PR manager actually
cast a sugar daddy as well to be in the piece, but the sugar daddy didn't show up.
So the PR manager assumed the role of sugar daddy himself
and went on camera for this interview.
It was like, what I remember is it being
for the travel channel and it was about the most wildest
parts of Vegas or something.
I don't know, it's kind of like gossipy news.
Back then it was really popular.
And I know the interview was so terrible
because I was so nervous.
And this guy, I didn't even know him,
and he's supposed to be my sugar daddy.
It was so weird.
But before they would even cast me,
it was a paid opportunity.
So they paid me $250 to appear.
But they had me sign a contract that
said I wouldn't tell production that I was paid,
because in most cases,
like journalistic integrity dictates
that you can't have paid case studies.
Like it's different if it's an actor or an actress,
but if it's a case study that is saying what they do
or talking about their lives,
then that person isn't supposed to be paid
because like there's like an unspoken agreement
that like you're doing this because you wanna share your story,
not because you're being paid to share your story.
Got it.
So most journalists won't even work with you
if you're being paid.
But I had to sign a contract that said I wasn't being paid.
But I of course was.
And I also had to sign the contract said that I wouldn't say
I've been paid for sex, which at the time I was like,
what?
I was like, I wouldn't do that, you know?
But then when I actually got on the site,
I realized that that's what was happening, is people are trying to pay for sex. But they tout
it as, oh, no, no, it's not that. It's just rich guys. It's just this and so your mindset kind of
is like, oh, but they're saying it's not that. So I believe what they're saying. And it's on TV.
It's in the New York Post. So if it was illegal, if it was really sex work,
if it was really prostitution, then why would it be on TV?
Why wouldn't it be shut down if it was really illegal?
And so that's kind of the mindset that kind of tricks you
into thinking that it's not sex work, which is what it is.
So when you get on the site, there's
a flood of messages in my inbox, 500 no condom.
Like, that's the norm of what—
That's what they're offering you.
Yes. Yes. That's the messages that I would get from sugar daddies.
Not like, do you like to go sailing?
Absolutely not. No. It's—I'm not saying that there isn't like maybe a small piece
of the pie that's guys who really just want to spoil you and really just. But in
that case, like, why would they need a website to do that? Like, why wouldn't they just like
be a normal guy and just like be nice and like go out and meet girls? Like you don't
need a website where there's an explicit exchange of money for something in order to to get
those girls. Like it just it doesn't make any sense. And that's really not what happens
on the website. Okay. The problem with the website is that there's
two parties who neither one of them think it's sex work.
The girls on the site are willing to be paid for sex,
of course, but they're not sex workers.
And the men on the site are.
They're giving you the girlfriend experience.
That's what it's called, yeah.
An escorting term is the girlfriend experience,
which is where the girl actually pretends that she likes you and like goes out on dates
and stuff. And I mean, it's sometimes that but I would say trips and shopping. Yeah. And I mean,
maybe it is sometimes that. But most of the time, in my experience, it's men who are lying about
what they're going to offer you trying to get sex for free, or just straight up paying for sex. But neither party in it see it as sex work. So it leaves both parties
to be very vulnerable and be able to get scammed in one way or another because no one's being
honest about what's going on and the marketing and the fact that the website still exists
and is still around despite like actually legal changes that happen.
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So tell me about your first experience and what you were hoping for when you decided
to like actually have a conversation with this person. Did you talk on the phone before
you met? Like walk me through it.
So the first guy I met on the site was named John, fitting, of course.
So John said he was in the movie business,
and I think we just texted beforehand.
And did you see a photo of him first?
He sent me a photo, but his face wasn't in the photo.
What was the photo of then?
I mean, his body, I guess.
I don't even know if it was of him after meeting him.
But that's what most people on the website did back then,
is they didn't have real pictures of themselves.
And how old did he say he was?
He said he was like 45 or something like that,
and I was 21.
And so I went to the Hard Rock Hotel,
which is now The Virgin, and to the Circle Bar,
and met up with him and got very drunk.
Of course, I was so nervous,
and he's just pouring me more and more wine.
And so I went back to his room with him.
So you're chatting for like a couple hours at the bar?
Yeah, maybe like an hour.
And then he kept complaining that it was too loud
that he couldn't hear me.
And so he wanted to go up to the room
so we could talk better.
And I was like, okay.
And then he poured me a drink.
In the room.
In the room, yeah.
And I mean, I don't know for sure if I was drugged,
but what I remember after that is being like very disoriented.
And like maybe I was just super drunk,
but I mean, he did like pour me a drink or whatever,
like with his back turned to me in the room.
So I don't really know what happened,
but he starts telling me all these sweet nothings.
He's like, you know, I have this trip to Aruba planned
and I want you to come with me and be my sugar baby and all of this and like, you know, I have this trip to Aruba planned and I want you to come with me and
be my sugar baby and all of this and like being so sweet, telling me how beautiful and
wonderful I was.
And I had literally never had any experiences on the website.
So me, I was like, oh, shoot, like, this is exactly what the website promised is this
guy that wants to take me on a trip.
Like, oh, lucky me.
I just found it right away.
And then, of course, he sleeps with me
and then tells me to leave.
And how was that?
Two seconds.
Two seconds, and you play over and over again.
I don't even remember.
I really don't.
So then he asks you to leave?
Yes.
So then he asks me to leave.
And I remember I could barely walk.
And there's like those chairs right by the elevators.
And I remember sitting in the chair by the elevator
for a little while and just kind of trying to catch my balance.
And this lady wakes me up and she's like, are you OK?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine.
And so then I, I guess, went down to my car and drove home.
I woke up the next morning in my bed,
not really sure how I got there.
And then I tried to call him and text him.
He never talked to me again.
So that is the typical experience on the website.
So no money exchange.
Absolutely not.
No trip to Aruba.
No trip to Aruba.
OK.
So then after that experience, did you try it one more time,
or what happened?
Yeah.
So I got back on the site.
I was like, oh, god, I'm such an idiot for falling for it.
And so the next time I got on the site,
it was actually another guy named John, John number two.
And he was very curmudgeonly, like he was a little bit older,
probably like 55 or something like that.
And he was just kind of crass and rude a little bit.
I was like, oh, it's obvious why he needs to pay for girls
because he's not a prize.
And he ends up winning at the craps table.
With you, while you're singing.
Yeah, with me.
Yeah, I'd never played craps before in my life,
but of course, got very drunk.
And I think that's a common thread in all of these stories
is like someone gets very drunk
and that's because you're nervous, right?
So, and I was 21,
I like didn't really know how to hold my alcohol.
And he ends up winning probably like 10 grand
or something like that. And we went back up to his room
but I was so drunk, I just passed out.
And I remember waking up just on top of the bed
with my shoes still on.
Like nothing happened like him or whatever.
Clothes are on, shoes are on, like nothing.
And where's he?
Asleep too?
So he was actually, I woke up to him pushing the room service cart in.
Okay.
He had just gotten some, is it the wind?
So it's like a rather large room.
And he's like, oh, I got you some room service
and I left you something in your purse.
I was like, oh, okay.
So I get up and I like go look in my purse
and there's like a wad of cash in my purse.
How much was it?
It was $1,500.
Okay.
And so I like kind of thumb through it.
I was like, oh shoot. I was like, that's more money I'd ever seen in my life in cash.
Like, that's mine. I was like, Oh dang. So then I go on the couch and he's like, kind
of like fondling me and feeling like holding it up like pretty woman. Remember when she
did that? I always thought that was such a weird scene that she didn't use a knife and
fork as if she's so like eating a pancake like a muffin. Yeah.
I was so nauseous from like, I mean, I have actually found now that I think I'm allergic
to alcohol. Like I cannot have large quantities of alcohol. I just I thought that like when
you take a shot, you just have to throw up. Like that's how everyone feels.
I mean, if I was you at this point, I would be like, all right, I got $1500. I didn't
have to do anything with this crotchety dude.
I got a good breakfast.
Yeah, I'm a little hungover, but that's on me.
I'd be like, I'd probably be game to go do this again now,
even though I had the shitty first experience.
Well, that's-
Is that what you were thinking?
Yes, but that's not where the experience ended.
Okay, keep going.
So he starts like loving on me and stuff and like I like take the money and leave.
No. Yeah. Like I like hadn't showered and like I feel like I smelled really bad. And so I was
like, Oh, no, like, I don't like no, I don't think so. And so I told him I was on my period.
And so that like turned him off, right? Right. But then he's like, do you want to take a shower?
And I was like, with him? Yes. And so at the time I was like, well, I mean,
if he's going to be filling my purse with money all the time, like all I have to do
is go take a shower with him. Like, all right, might as well. I was like, okay, not really
sure how I was going to navigate that particular situation. Get in the shower, basically gave
him like a quick oral sex experience. Cleanup was easy and then off he goes. And he was
like, oh, you can order room service or whatever you want.
But I was like so sick, I like vomited and then I just left.
And I was like, okay, like one experience was really bad.
And then one experience, I guess it wasn't like great.
Like I didn't love this guy.
Yeah.
Like I didn't want to hit him up again.
But I ended up leaving my watch in the room.
Was it expensive?
I mean, I don't really remember.
I think it was like, I think I had gotten for Christmas or something.
So it wasn't like not a nice watch.
And I called him, tried to maybe get the watch back and he didn't answer me.
He goes to me.
He never talked to me again.
So like, okay, whatever.
So it's kind of not-
It's crazy that you're doing this and you're still getting horrible ghosting rejection
that a normal person would be getting on dating.
Like it's even worse, you know?
Okay, so then what happened?
Well, I mean, just to say that like a lot of times it's not so cut and dry.
It's more nuanced than maybe you think it is.
It's not like I said, hey, you're going to pay me $1,500 and I'm going to give you a
BJ in the shower.
No one said anything like that.
No one said anything at all.
It was just like kind of implied,
like, oh, well, he gave me the money,
and if you want more money,
then you know you have to do this.
So I think that's a lot of times what it is,
and I think people think it's more cut and dry.
This is how much it costs.
I'm not to say that that doesn't happen.
Like a lot of people are specific about like their pricing
and stuff, but I was never like that
because I wasn't a sex worker.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And most of the women on the site
don't know what they're doing.
They're super young.
They don't consider themselves sex workers.
So it leaves them very vulnerable in these situations.
So then after this guy, you don't hear from him again.
So now there's been two experiences.
Then what happens?
Then I ended up meeting a guy who was like a little bit younger and he was very cute
and said he was different than the other guys on the site.
He's called the trust fund guy in my book.
And I did end up meeting up with him a few times.
But the first time I met up with him, he bought me a bikini.
Apparently these guys always buy you a bikini.
And we went to Wet Republic.
And then he kind of ditched me
to like go hang out with like his other friends basically.
Like-
While you're at the Wet Republic.
Yes, we were all at Wet Republic
and he's like, okay, we're gonna go to dinner now.
I was like, okay, cool.
So we all go back to the Wynn.
And he's how old?
He was 29, he said.
Oh, okay, great.
So I was 21, he was 29. So I was like, oh, win. And he's how old? He was 29, he said. Oh, OK, great. So I was 21, he was 29.
So I was like, oh, cool.
And he was really nice.
And then when we get back to the win, he's like, OK, bye.
I'll see you later.
We're going to go to dinner now.
And I thought I was going to dinner with them,
but he was ditching me at the win and telling me to go off
and with my new bikini or whatever.
I was like, OK, fine.
So then I end up meeting up with him again, like a few months later. And he
tries to sodomize me without my consent. And we get into an argument and I left. And then
that was that situation. And I write about all these in the book. And then the last time I met
up with him was actually at his place in New York. When I realized how rich he was.
So he was very rich. He was a very rich, trust-fund guy.
His family name is on many buildings in New York, and so he's like a legacy.
And I didn't know that at the time.
I didn't know who the heck he was, but I was able to learn.
And he basically wants sex to be easy.
So he's got money, he pays for it.
There's a lot of different kind
of categories that these guys fall into. It's a very small percentage are like these super rich
guys who just really want it to be easy and just pay for it. That's like maybe 10% or maybe like 5%.
I feel like the image is a guy in his mid 40s to like 55. This is the way I feel like it's portrayed. And he may or may
not have a wife, but he'd like a hot girlfriend to be discreet, not expect to get married,
not have his baby. But when he has a business trip, when he has something, then you could
go with him and, you know, be there for the sex, shut up when he wants to watch the game, and he's
not going to care about your feelings, you can't say you were mean to me, like, and that's
where it's like transactional.
Yes, exactly.
And the sex workers, and just to clarify, like sugar babies are sex workers, like straight
up, like I don't think there's a difference.
I think there's a girlfriend experience kind of situation.
But if you are being paid a lot of money
and you are being elevated to that level,
you are having sex and that is what you're being paid for.
You're being paid to keep quiet, to be complacent
and sometimes be complicit when you're reeling
in other girls for sexual.
Like a threesome or whatever.
Or orgies or whatever. Like a lot of these people
are kind of like sexual deviants and so they're interested in like having orgies and like doing
crazy stuff. And I'm not saying everyone is like that but yes the situation that you're talking
about it certainly does happen. I would say maybe like five, ten percent of the people on the site
are really just like kind of well-meaning, just want it to be easy, want someone to go on a trip with them or whatever. Of those type of people,
I would say 90% of them are married. And the majority of the people, not just those type
of good people on the site, right? The majority of the people are married. Like that's a common
through line is that these are married men who want to easily get sex on the
side and they don't want a professional because they don't want the idea in their head that they're
paying someone for sex because that just hurts their ego. So they want to find someone who's
young, a young college girl who doesn't have the perceived
stank of like a weathered sex worker. And so that's who they find. And I mean, I'm not
saying that there are all bad experiences on the site. Like a broken clock is right
twice a day, right? So there are like a fraction, like maybe like 5% of people who do really
find that and have really good experiences. But the majority
of experiences are not that at all. And when I first started on the website in 2013, it was a
very different place because-
I know people are going to be mad at me if we don't finish the trust fund.
Oh, yeah.
So I just want to finish that story before we forget. Okay, so you go to New York, you really do see how rich he is, you are having sex with
him, and then that unfortunate night happens where he wanted to do something you didn't?
Or how did it end with him?
So, I saw him three times.
The first time was the wet republic experience, the next time he came back to Vegas, tried
to sodomize me, and then the next time I was actually in New York already, I was there for my job and I
changed my seeking arrangement location to New York to see what kind of guys I would
meet and he ends up hitting me up again.
And I go over to his place and it was very late at night and I think he had just taken
a Xanax or something and nothing happened.
He basically got me a car.
When I got there, I was there for an hour,
we smoked some weed and then he got me a car
and sent me home.
And I thought we were gonna have sex
because I was like, he's hot, he's rich, whatever.
But that ended up not happening
and then I never talked to him again.
Or maybe I did talk to him here and there
but I was like, no, I don't think so.
So I mean, if you want the details,
you can read what's in the book.
No, read the book, okay.
So I was just wondering what happened without.
Yeah, no, nothing really.
So then after you said you had a few experiences,
and then what happened?
So I ended up meeting a guy on the site who lived in Miami
and was kind of like no prize or anything.
But he was really spoiling me.
He was like, he came out to Vegas.
He bought me stuff from Saks, and he flew
me out to Miami a couple times.
And when you were, you know, I've had this guy on, and he calls himself like the, you
know, the, I don't like the name, but he calls himself the Horror Whisperer. That's where
I found him on TikTok. And he was saying, I encourage my friends who are dating rich guys to only buy from, only get things from, oh gosh, what were the two stores?
I think Neiman's and one other store, you can return the thing for cash.
In these other stores, you can't. And in choosing items for the sugar daddy to buy you,
like really stick with like Chanel and like Rolex and like Hermé because they actually
go up in value where a lot of like the Yves Saint Laurent and stuff like that don't aren't
worth that much as a when you with the spoiling guy were you thinking about that or were you
just getting what looked cute?
I was getting what he wanted me to get.
Oh, okay.
So tell me about that.
And I mean, I think that kind of is the situation
a lot of times is the man decides what you get.
Oh.
You get what you get and like it.
So he dresses you, he bought what he bought for me.
Okay, so you go to the store.
Like I kind of want to hear the shopping experience.
Yeah. Okay.
Well, so here, let me hear that.
So first, before I even met him,
I was at work that day and he went shopping for me that day.
And this is why you're still working
at the novelty adult place.
Okay. Yes.
This was the, and he hated that.
He was like, oh no, I don't want you in the sex industry.
So I was like, well, if I'm gonna get out of it,
then you're gonna have to pay me.
And so, so before I'd even met this man in person,
he was shopping for me at Saks
and he bought me a dress and some shoes, some
Jimmy Choos, a size too small. So I go up to his room to like...
The shoes were too small.
The shoes were too small.
When you can't wear those.
When I get up to the room, I realize they're a size too small and try to shove my wide
foot in them and that doesn't work. So he's like, oh, don't worry, we'll go back to Saks
tomorrow and we'll exchange them. And I was like, okay, great. Like we're gonna go shopping. So we go back to Saks the next day
and he picks out a St. Laurent pump
and I picked out like a different,
like the tribute sandal and he's like,
those are hooker shoes.
And I was like, okay.
So then he picks out another one,
equally hooker-ish if you ask me.
And he's like, no, I like these ones.
You're gonna get these ones.
And I was like, okay.
So like my, I have like really wide feet. Like my toes are kind of
all the same size, like not shaped for European shoes at all. And so I like shove my foot
in there like Cinderella's ugly stepsister and then trot down the aisle for him. I'm
like, do you like them? And he's like, yeah, they're great. And so I was like, okay, like
I guess this is what I get. And do you think when you were doing this,
did you think anyone was looking, observing, knowing
what the situation was?
I mean, the salespeople were watching me,
with this guy with a pot belly balding, not cute,
playing on his phone.
And me, this little girl, the optics
were very clear what was going on. Okay, okay, cool.
And so I call him the Milk Dud in my book,
but, because his head looked like a giant Milk Dud.
And so- Sexy.
Yeah, so I kind of like write about like how my mindset was
in that situation where I was thinking
that I was gonna receive these spoils.
So I was complacent with his bad actions. And even when I got the shoes, I was gonna receive these spoils. So I was complacent with his bad actions.
And even when I got the shoes, I was like,
do I even want these shoes?
Or do I just like want my friends to know I have them?
Do I even care?
But then obviously I had the shoes.
And then when I went out with my friends and the shoes,
I'm like, oh, cute shoes.
I'm like, oh, thank you, they really hurt.
So it's weird.
Like you think that-
So then what else did you get?
Did you get anything else or just the shoes?
It was just, yeah, it was just the shoes.
We just returned the Jimmy Choos and got the Saint Laurent pumps.
And then when he flew me out to Miami the next time,
he didn't really get me anything.
So did you sleep with him that first time?
Yes.
Yeah, I slept with him the first time.
It was gross.
And I kind of assumed that was
the case because he bought me this dress. And so I'm like in the dress.
And how much was the dress?
I think it was like 500 or something like that. He had already bought it from me. He
had already picked it out for me.
And did that look good on you?
I mean, I had a few extra pounds on me, so I was kind of like stuffed into it. But I
mean, I thought it was really cute. I think I still have it somewhere.
But I mean, it was a really cute dress.
And I wore it that night.
And then I obviously went back up to his room with him.
And then I'm like in the dress.
I'm like, well, I guess this is consent
if I'm wearing the dress.
I mean, I guess I have to now, right?
And so yeah, I mean, we had very brief sex.
And then the next couple of weeks later,
he flew me out to Miami.
And I was under the impression that like,
oh, we're gonna go shopping, we're gonna do this,
we're gonna do that.
And that was not the case at all.
We went to the Gator Park and we did like basic crap.
Like it wasn't, like I was under the impression that-
You mean alligators?
Yes. Oh.
Like a wildlife park.
We did like an airboat ride.
Like it was-
So now you really had to like hang out.
So then I was like just kind of enjoying his company
or whatever.
And so-
And did you have sex there too?
Yeah, I think we did.
I don't remember.
It was like, I mean, it was all very quick.
So I don't exactly remember what happened that trip.
But then he, for my birthday, it was my 22nd birthday,
he flew me out to Miami again
and we were gonna go to Key West.
And I was like, oh, it's my birthday,
he's really gonna spoil me this time.
You're gonna be on a beautiful beach resort at least.
I was like, oh, he's probably gonna get me
a helicopter ride or something cool.
And we drove in his truck to Key West from Miami,
like the drive, which is actually a really beautiful drive
across the aisles.
It's like the seven mile highway or whatever.
And so I was like, all right, fine.
My birthday is coming up.
He's really going to-
And are you having to talk to him the whole time,
or could you just look out the window?
I mean, yes and no.
Oh, I remember he took me by the University of Miami campus.
And he's like, oh, this is where I used to go to school.
And that's where you'll get your master's degree.
And I was like, my master's degree?
I don't even want to be in school right now.
But his fantasy was that I would be a college girl forever.
And I would just stay this young college girl that just is.
And I'm like, OK, well, you have it twisted.
And was he ever married or anything?
He had not been married, he said,
but he did have a son in Michigan or something like that.
So he was generous with you,
but you really don't know if he was a wealthy person.
No, and I don't think he was.
I think he had a few bucks to spend on me,
but then for my birthday, he's like,
oh, we're gonna rent a boat.
And so me- In Key West.
Yeah, in Key West. So I thought we were gonna rent a boat. And so me, yeah, in Key West.
So I thought like we're going to rent a speedboat.
Like Miami Vice.
Sporty.
Yeah.
I was like, I'm going to be on the bow of something sporty.
And he rented me the fishing boat from hell.
It was not cute.
It was a freaking fishing boat.
It smelled like tuna guts.
Like there's one little seat and didn't get any food.
It was like a terrible, like it was not what I thought it was
going to be at all. And then when it finally came time to like give me my gift, he had asked for,
I wanted a watch with a big face. And so- And the gift was a dick in the box.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. And then I go-
What was the gift? It was like a Burberry watch.
Okay. And I mean, it was probably like 500 bucks or something.
And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And I think he got me like another dress. It was like a Roberto Covelli dress,
but it didn't fit me. He didn't understand my sizes or thought I had like giant breasts or
something. Like I did not fill out this dress. And so I was like, okay, like this is nice. But I just
felt like he spent more money on me in Las Vegas than he did for my birthday. And so I was just
like, oh, like, I
guess it's not really what I expected.
I was like, but fine.
So at that point, we had negotiated
that I would quit my job.
And he would give me money each month.
He was going to give me $1,500 a month.
That's not enough to quit your job, though.
Well, it was for my bills.
And then he was going to, like, I mean, the plan,
he wanted me to move to Miami eventually.
So I think he was, like, kind of giving me going to, like, I mean, the plan, he wanted me to move to Miami eventually.
So I think he was like kind of giving me enough to like sustain me.
And then was trying to just like get me out there, like I guess as I would need things
or whatever.
And then, I mean, it was back in 2013.
And what were you thinking at that point?
Were you thinking really this is an option or were you like, were you like, oh my God,
Brooke, you do not want to be hanging out with this guy for the next five years.
Like, what the fuck are you doing?
Like, when did you have like a come to Jesus moment where you're like, what am I doing
this?
Isn't that fun?
This isn't that great?
I mean, I guess not yet.
Well, so he wanted to take me on a trip around the world.
He was like, oh, well, you know, we could go on a trip and our different locations will
like progress our latitude and we'll go around the whole world.
So we're going to go on this like long month long vacation.
So that was kind of like in my mind.
I was like, oh shoot.
Like I am.
Do you think like because for me I would be all yeah excited about the trip.
But then I'd be like, but if you didn't, maybe you did like him, but I'm thinking you didn't.
So I'm like, you do have to talk to him, see him, be around him, see his toenails.
Like all of that for a year.
Like I don't think anything sounds worse, honestly.
At the time, I didn't like him
and I didn't think that I like wanted to be with him.
But I think part of it too was like my mindset
was that like, I want to have these experiences.
Okay.
Like the experiences and the feeling that I had seen,
cause I'm in Las Vegas, right?
So I've seen other girls like getting these experiences. Got it. And I was like, because I'm in Las Vegas, right? So I had seen other girls getting these experiences.
And I was like, I'm cute enough to get that.
I want that too.
And so, social media was kind of on the rise, right?
Like Instagram had been around for a few years,
and people are posting all this crazy stuff on Instagram.
I was like, oh shoot, I could do that.
So I really wanted to take the trip.
I had never been on a big trip like that. So I really wanted to take the trip. Like I had never been like kind
of on a big trip like that. And that was my goal. So I ended up not selecting my final semester of
classes, because he was going to take me on the trip. And so it ended up that I requested my allowance from him a little bit too promptly, and he got the feeling that
I was using him.
And so he ghosted me.
So that was after he was supposed to like pay me, but I had already quit my job and
not picked my classes.
So I was kind of in a bind where I was like, well, financial aid had passed.
So I didn't have money for classes.
I couldn't pick my classes.
I didn't have a job.
And it just so happened that when I met the people that worked at Seeking Arrangement,
they had offered me a job.
How did you meet them then?
So after the initial casting, I was then offered a modeling opportunity for some content they were shooting for a new
dating website. And if you want to look at the most cringe photos in the world, you can go find
the photos for carrot dating, not the diamond kind, the carrot with green stems. There's some
very cringe photos out there. There's like a W wired article that came out at the time for this app they were launching.
And what was that about?
It was about bribing someone for a date. So instead of giving her money, you would give
her a gift.
Oh.
I know. So all very weird, very salacious.
And that no longer exists.
I don't think so. I honestly have no idea.
Okay.
But I went to this stock photography shoot and it was clean.
There wasn't anything in particular.
It wasn't like I didn't have to take my clothes off or anything like that.
And at the time I was like broke.
So it was before that, the Milk Dead guy.
It was before any of that happened.
It was like right after I had joined the site.
So I really had no experiences yet.
But when I met the marketing manager at that shoot, she asked me what I did. She's like,
do you have a job? You're in school. And I told her I was a journalism major and I was working
at this adult novelty company. So I was telling her my little spiel that I gave you. And so I
was like just talking about, you know, sex very casually. And she was like, you're really good
at talking about sex. You should work for us. And I was like, oh, thank you,
but I think I'm gonna go find a sugar daddy.
And so I tried my luck finding a sugar daddy.
I found out it was not at all
what I thought it was going to be.
And then I was really in a bind and my mom actually,
and she's like, well, didn't that lady offer you a job?
And I was like, yeah, she did.
I was like, but-
And did your mom know
that you were doing the sugar baby thing?
Yes, yeah, she did.
And how it was, were your parents married?
Like how did she feel about that?
They're divorced and they got divorced when I was young
and she was always kind of of the mind
that like I'm gonna do whatever I'm gonna do
and if she were to tell me not to do that,
it would only make me do it more.
So she would rather me be honest with her
about what I was doing than to be left out of the loop
because I think that she's gonna tell me not to do that.
So I mean, I think there was like a certain element
of permissiveness that kind of led me to do this.
And the fact that she like wanted me to be open about sex
and like wanted me to like be on birth control. And those are the lies that I think parents were told at the time as well,
that you want your children to talk about sex.
You want your children to be honest with you about these things.
But then there's like a double edge sword to it because I was so easily talking
about sex and I was,
and then it was kind of like that that turned me into that person a little bit.
I mean, working at the novelty place obviously didn't help.
But yeah, I ended up meeting the founder and the marketing
manager that day.
And she offered me a job, but I was
going to go try my luck as a sugar baby.
And then when I was destitute at the bottom of my bank account
and hadn't picked my classes, had quit my job.
And I thought that even without my degree, like I didn't have, I hadn't walked yet.
I had like one semester of classes left.
I was going to do all my electives the last semester and just have kind of like a fun
semester.
But I never picked my classes because I thought I was going on a trip around the world.
So I never got my degree.
Like still to this day, I don't have a degree.
I did do all my core classes though.
So I called her and I was like, Hey, are you still looking for people? And so she ended
up hiring me as a PR coordinator making $35,000 a year, which was more money than I'd ever
seen. And I was like, Oh shoot, I actually got my offer letter on the day I was walking.
So at UNLV, they let you apply for graduation before you've actually finished your credits.
So I was like, oh, perfect.
I can walk for graduation.
Everyone will think I graduated.
I'll get a picture of me in the cap and gown, and then I'll just start my job.
And like, trella.
And so I did.
So I was 22 when I started the job.
I just turned 22.
It was after that birthday.
Working for the Seeking arrangement.
Working for the company, yeah.
And I had no idea about corporate life. I had been
working for like a family run warehouse adult novelty company. So like I didn't know anything
about like how corporate America really worked. And I didn't have any experience in PR. I didn't
even know what PR really was. And I mean, if you if you don't know what PR is, I know it's kind of tossed around a lot. So basically, PR reps are liaisons between companies and media. So you're as a PR representative,
you're trying to get different media news outlets, podcasts, whoever it is,
to cover your brand, essentially. And so what years did you work there?
The very end of 2013, I actually started on December 30th, 2013.
And then I ended up getting laid off along with like 12 other people at the beginning
of 2019, like January 2nd, 2019. So it was five years, but on paper, it's the years are
a little bit different. So were you there when Rachel was... No. Okay. So I was the spokesperson internally for the company.
And then after we all got let go at the beginning, very beginning of 2019, I believe her contract
began in 2020 or 2021.
And she was an external spokesperson who was hired for the company to kind of do the same
thing that I had been doing, but not as like an internal like PR employee.
It was more just like as a talking head kind of thing.
And I mean, their relationship went very sour.
And I believe it's because after the Matt Gaetz scandal
broke, their PR strategy changed
and they no longer wanted to use her.
And what is the Matt Gaetz scandal?
So Matt Gaetz is a Republican congressman from Florida,
or he was a Republican congressman.
I think he stepped down.
I don't really know what his deal is.
But if you've heard about him in the news recently,
Trump appointed him to be the attorney general.
And people didn't like that.
So he stepped down as attorney general,
and Trump appointed Pam Bondi, who ironically was lobbying
for anti-sex trafficking,
which is very interesting.
Anyway, so what happened in 2021 is news of this scandal broke where this man named Joel
Greenberg, who was like a tax collector in Florida, he was found to have been sex trafficking minors using seeking, using seeking arrangement, using the website.
And then allegedly Matt Gaetz had sex with one of these minors.
And I mean, to be clear, like, I don't know what happened with Matt Gaetz.
I don't know Matt Gaetz, never met him, don't know him.
So what I can tell you about that is there was an indictment against him for a long time.
They were building up this indictment, but it ended up getting dropped and people were kind of
wondering why this indictment got dropped. And I mean, I think I know why it was dropped. So in 2022,
I was contacted by an attorney who was representing the minor who had been trafficked on the website
by Joel Greenberg.
And Joel Greenberg is currently serving an 11-year sentence for like tax evasion and
sex trafficking.
So I'm pretty sure that he really was on the site and he really was doing this.
But the attorney that contacted me in 2022 told me that he was suing Matt Gates
and suing Seeking Arrangement on the girls behalf. So he had some questions for me about
the mechanics of the website and just how things work. So I basically gave him the T
because at the time I was also involved with other journalists. In 2021, when the scandal initially broke,
the New York Times reached out to me,
and so did ABC 2020.
They were both pursuing stories,
and I gave them everything I had.
They were very clear that they were gonna do this story,
exposing the website, showing that, you know,
it really is very easy for underage girls
to get sex trafficked on this website.
And those stories
never came out. After you did the entire interview. I did. I probably talked to the New York Times
journalists for like seven hours, ABC 20, respectively. They were like separately working
on the same story around the same time. ABC flew me out to New York, had a day of production buzzing
around me at the beginning of 2022. They were going to do a sizzle reel
for like a concept about the sugar world and like what it really is. And those stories never came
out. And when you reached out and was like, hey, just check it in. When is this going to air? What
response would you get? Oh, we're working on it. We're working on it. But now they don't talk to
me anymore. They don't even respond to me. So if you wrote them today, they would just not write
back. Well, the last time I talked to the 2020 guy, he was like, Oh, I'm going to call you. And
then he never did. So okay, whatever. But oh, back to the Matt Gaetz thing. So then at the time,
I was corresponding with that journalist. And he told me that the reason the indictment was dropped
was because the girl who was a minor at the time
believes that the relationship was consensual between her
and Gates.
So she's not willing to testify.
And so therefore, it's dropped.
And I think what kind of happens in these situations
is when you hear the term sex trafficking thrown around,
you think that, oh, they're being forced.
They're being put
in cages and immigrants, children being sold. I'm not saying that doesn't happen because
I'm certain it does. But a lot of times sex trafficking is more nuanced. So what it really
is is when one person, usually a man, someone like Joel Greenberg, procures women off of
the website. So he reached out to them, says, hey, establishes
a relationship with whatever. And then he transports that woman to somewhere else to then have her paid
for sex. And a lot of times the participants are willing because they're being paid for sex. So
sex trafficking isn't always someone being lured and coerced and forced into sex.
Right, like in the back of a van driving over state lines and blindfold and thrown into
a dirty hotel room.
And I'm sure that all does happen.
That all does happen.
But yeah, there's different levels of situations.
The majority of the time, the trafficker is someone you know.
Sometimes it's a family member.
And a lot of times the people who are willing participants, the young girls who are willing
participants who are willing to be paid for sex, they're the ones who are then chosen
to be then trafficked.
And it's kind of like incremental, right?
Like it escalates from there.
And then it's unspoken, like, well, I did this for you. So you
do this for me. And the people who are complacent are the ones who then get more money, get more
trips, get more this, get more that. So it puts you in a very bad situation if you're one of these
people who's being trafficked, because now you've done something illegal. So you're in a position
where you think that you're going to get arrested, or you're in a position where you think
that you're gonna get arrested
or you're gonna get solicitation charges.
If you don't, drop the case or do whatever.
So it's like they have you in this bind
when you're participating in sex work
that you are ashamed, you don't wanna share it with anyone,
but also you're scared because they threaten you with lawsuits and they tell you, if you
don't do what I tell you to do, then we're going to file solicitation charges against
you.
And I don't know if any of that happened with this girl or anyone, but I just know that
that's the situation that they get put in because anecdotally I've heard it many times.
Well, this was fascinating.
You explain it so well. The writing is great. Get this book. What
a juicy read over the holidays. Can you tell everybody where they can find it? Tell everybody
where they can find it.
You can find it where books are sold. It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can get the
audiobook pretty soon. I think it's coming out in a couple days. So hopefully by the
time the podcast comes out.
Did you do it?
I did.
Okay, great.
I recorded it myself.
I read it myself.
And it was very emotional reading it.
Oh, good.
But yeah, it's a quick read.
I wrote a book kind of for people
who don't really like to read very much.
So it's like kind of gonna hook you in
and hopefully teach you some lessons along the way.
Wink Wink Nudge Nudge by Brooke Yurick. And thank you for your complete and total honesty.
I know I ask a lot of like straightforward kind of weird questions because it's like what I'm,
what the audience is thinking too, since I have never experienced it. That's why I was always
sort of fascinated with the rise of this type of thing. And so it's really interesting to
see someone your age. How old are you now?
I'm 33.
Yeah. See someone your age 33 that went from the meeting the guy online at 15 to find yourself in Vegas with this thing that seems so cool and very transactional
and let's just be honest in this relationship with these guys to the real truth of it.
Now your perspective as a young, educated woman, you're really smart, and I'm really glad that you shared it. And I'm also glad that
people know that these stories get reported on by the biggest news media in the world,
and then they get squashed and silenced and thrown away. And you go, oh, I wonder why. Well,
this person at the company that you're talking about is associated with this person and this person
and this person, story's not being run.
So that's why I like what I do, though it's not,
I have had my share of difficulty
with people trying to shut me down too
for the last almost 10 years.
And I'm glad I haven't and I'm glad that I get to
meet people like you that, you know, so smart and strong and really, really great interviews. Thank you so much for coming.
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the candid questions too. I'm sure like lots of people
have questions, so reach out to me. I'm definitely willing to answer them.
And where can they find you on Instagram?
At Brooke Yurick. I'm just starting out. My following is small because I was waiting to
come forward on Instagram until the book was out because I was scared like something might happen. I might get silenced. So yeah,
please give me a follow, DM me if you have questions. And I'm willing to tell you literally
whatever you want to know because I think this is a really important topic. And a lot
of the book is kind of revealed on Instagram. Like I created a visual companion to the books.
You don't necessarily need to read the book to understand
what's going on just because I think it's really important to
tell people what the heck is going on. But we want you to buy
the book. But also buy the book. All right, thank you.
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