Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Sugar Baby Confessions and Assassin’s Clues

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

We are learning more about the Assassin’s privileged life and what may have led him to committing murder. Megan Fox and Machine Gun Kelly broke up. Jay Z’s attorney shares disturbing information.�...�Then I interview Brook Urick, author of “Wink Wink Nudge Nudge: Sexual Exploits and Secrets from Inside a Sugar Daddy Website.” Brook answers all my juicy questions about how she found herself in sugar baby relationships to eventually working for a website and revealing their surprising secrets. So juicy enjoy!  • Go to https://bluenile.com to shop Blue Nile, the original online jeweler since 1999! • Save big during SONO BELLO'S FRIENDS AND FAMILY - HOLIDAY SAVINGS EVENT. Schedule your FREE consultation now at HTTPS://SONOBELLO.COM/JUICY  • Get on your OUAI to save for the holiday. Go to https://TheOuai.com for 15% off sitewide and enter promo code JUICY. Stand Up Tickets and info: https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald on iTunes, the podcast app, and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPodApple  https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop  Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: https://juicyscoopshop.com  Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www/instagram.com/heathermcdonald  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald  Twitter: https://twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This podcast is brought to you by Aura, a complete online safety toolkit. This past summer, national public data reported a breach potentially affecting every American. Over 2.9 billion records used for background checks were stolen. If safeguarding personal information wasn't a priority before, this incident should serve as a critical wake-up call. You're more vulnerable than ever in today's digital landscape. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura monitors the dark web for users' phone numbers,
Starting point is 00:00:32 emails, and social security numbers, delivering real-time alerts if any suspicious activity is detected. Additionally, Aura provides up to 5 million in identity theft insurance, offering a robust safety net in the event of a worst-case scenario.
Starting point is 00:00:47 Aura is a complete online safety toolkit, which includes a variety of other features to keep you safe online, including a VPN for secure browsing. DataBroker opts out to stop companies from selling your personal information and a password manager to help you create and store strong passwords. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14-day trial plus a check of your data to see if your personal information has been leaked online. All for free when you visit aura.com slash defense.
Starting point is 00:01:16 That's aura.com slash defense to sign up for a 14-day free trial and start protecting you and your loved ones. That's aura.com defense. Certain terms apply, so be sure to check the site for details. Wei is making it so easy to give Wei better gifts this holiday. Their hair and body products are specifically designed to customize a routine that works for you and personalize a gift for everyone on your list. So get on your way to save for the holiday. Go to theway.
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Starting point is 00:02:26 To have your say, just go Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales, her real life Mr. Snake and serial data, and serial system. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Hannah McDonald, Juicy Scoop.
Starting point is 00:03:04 Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have such a juicy interview, you guys are gonna die. But first let's just do a couple updates and hot topics. I wanna tell you, Patreon is gonna be off the hook this Friday because I'm going to the Kathy Hilton holiday party for DirecTV, that's happening. I'm gonna have that to talk about and so much more. So make sure you go to heathermcdonnell.net,
Starting point is 00:03:32 join the Patreon, and also that is where you'll get my tickets to my three shows in February, February 14th, New York City, DC is February 15th, and February 16th is in New Jersey, Red Bank, New Jersey. So get on that. Okay, you guys, a little bit more about this such a strange situation with this young man who has been arrested, the assassin. We talked a little bit about it on Tuesday's show. We obviously know more.
Starting point is 00:04:05 You'll probably know more as you're listening to this as well. This is the information I have. As we stated, this kid comes from a great education, great privilege. He went to an all-boy prep school in which he was the valedictorian. There's videos of him giving a speech where he comes off just great, then went to college. And there was a thing that said both of his grandparents had died in 2016, one in 2017. But a couple years ago, he had some back injury. And I don't know if he went surfing after or before, but he was a surfer.
Starting point is 00:04:45 And he got a surgery that did not go well for him. And what is being reported is that allegedly that affected his ability to have sex and that made him what people call an incel, which is this idea that these young men are really turned towards kind of hating women or they don't have sex with women and they turn inward and become kind of strange. And it's something with that because he is a good looking guy. People have shown his social media and he looks very fit and he obviously was a surfer and he's fit now, what he appears to be.
Starting point is 00:05:27 And just went down this really crazy dark path and it's a very interesting thing, especially someone of such great privilege, that you would think, what is it? What was the psychological break that made this young man decide, I should be doing better in life, I shouldn't be in pain, this is someone else's fault, this is, you decide, I should be doing better in life. I shouldn't be in pain. This is someone else's fault. I'm going to do this thing and become a famous hero of the people by murdering this executive of healthcare. I mean, it's really crazy. I thought it was weird that he wasn't a McDonald's. I'm like, was he really eating at McDonald's or was he using the internet so he could open
Starting point is 00:06:06 up his computer because that is what he was doing? For a few days, he was the hero. People were dressing like him. People thought it was great. There was definitely a lack of empathy for the murder victim's family, his kids, his mother, anybody that was associated with him. There was not a lot of outpouring for him online. What was, was like, who is this hot guy and everything. So it was interesting that he was probably looking at that when
Starting point is 00:06:39 the patron that was at the McDonald's called him in and he was arrested. I just saw a video of him going into a jail and he's yelling out to the cameras saying, this is an injustice, this is unfair, this is an injustice to the American people. His parents, I guess, have spoken slightly saying, we are just devastated, but that's about it that I've seen. Like I said, I'm just gathering it now. So really weird and awful. Also people are saying, why do we know so much
Starting point is 00:07:16 about this guy yet we still know very little about who attempted to assassinate Trump. There were other shooters recently that we don't know anything about, maybe because that man was killed and this one is going to go on trial. I don't know. It's just very, very strange. So that's where we are with that, with Luigi Mangione. And I'm sure we'll know more and more. Okay, Megan Fox, who is expecting her fourth child, her first with Machine Gun Kelly, they have broken up. TMZ is reporting they have broken up. And the latest report is people wondered if her co-star for a movie that's coming out, it's called Servience or something,
Starting point is 00:08:06 about a year ago, she was with her co-star who's a good-looking guy named Michelle Morones, if there was something going on between them. But the social media in which they were flirting and doing all this was, I think, over a year ago in which she obviously got with Machine Gun Kelly within the year to, you know, procreate. So who knows why they broke up? Machine Gun Kelly and she are twin flames. They share the blood thing they have on and off and on and off with their relationship. So who really knows? Also a little bit update on the Jay Z. You know, in talking about it, I read your comments and you know, Kate had said like, you know, on Tuesday's show, who would let him write this statement? Well, his attorney is Alex Spiro and he has now spoken on Jay Z's behalf
Starting point is 00:09:00 and he has an interesting thing to say. He said a young woman has contacted their law firm and said, I just want you to know that I contacted Busby's law firm to look into the representing me in a sexual assault case. But it didn't involve P. Diddy or Jay-Z or anybody else. And they were saying, well, when did you meet P. Diddy? And the girl was like, well, I didn't. And then they were like, well, when were you given drugs in this particular case? And she's like, well, I wasn't. And so that is their, they're now saying that they got this call from this woman to say that maybe, you know, Busby's firm is not
Starting point is 00:09:40 really, maybe they are sort of the ambulance chaser of this and maybe they're encouraging people to say things that aren't particularly true to add in the narrative of what they're saying. Also, people said in that initial statement that Jay-Z said that he was, he never really said it didn't happen, just that this was like a travesty and this is wrong and all this other stuff. So that's a little update on that. All right, you guys, as I said, great interview. And here we go, go to HeatherMcNaul.net for Patreon and everything else. And now for the juicy interview. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I'm very excited for my interview guest. She has written
Starting point is 00:10:27 a real juicy book right here. And here she is, Brooke Yurick. Welcome. This book is excellent. Thank you. It's really juicy, really good. Thank you. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge is the name of the book. Shhh. Okay, girl. So we've talked a little bit before booking this interview and why don't you give a little background of how you came about writing the book
Starting point is 00:11:13 and then we'll get into some of the subjects that you cover. Well, thanks for having me, Heather. I'm really happy that you responded to me because I love the show. Oh, thank you. And this really is a juicy scoop, so I think your audience is gonna like it. So I worked behind the scenes at Seeking Arrangement,
Starting point is 00:11:30 which is a popular, notorious sugar daddy website. And I started there as a sugar baby. I actually got the job because I was cast in one of their reality shows. It was not a reality show. And the casting was basically me being told to lie on camera. And so I ended up meeting the people who work for the company and later on ended up working there
Starting point is 00:11:54 while also trying my own luck as a sugar baby. And I was very young. This was from the time I was 21 to the time I was 26. And- So what years is that approximately? Started in 2013. So the book actually takes place from 2013 through 2018. And that's the way I've written the parts,
Starting point is 00:12:13 is they take place over like different years. And I wrote it in first person, present tense. So you can see my evolution over that time, because I really did have my own coming of age and started to realize the patterns that were yucky. And at first, when you're young, you think, what's the big deal? And I feel like it's always-
Starting point is 00:12:35 What's the big deal? You mean being like a sugar baby or having transactional relationships with men? Exactly. And I live in Las Vegas, so it really wasn't far off from the lifestyle I was kind of already living as a 21-year-old girl in Las Vegas,
Starting point is 00:12:50 going out to clubs and partying with rich guys. So when you read it, you can see how the changes are incremental. Like this doesn't seem like such a big deal, and then this isn't so far from that, and then you just kind of go down this rabbit hole, and then on the other end, you don't even recognize yourself.
Starting point is 00:13:07 And I was paid for sex a couple times. I realized that wasn't for me. I didn't like the straight up transaction of it. And I was looking for a rich boyfriend. And I thought that that's what you would find on the website, but I was sorely mistaken. These websites are not places where good Prince Charmings come to sweep you off your feet.
Starting point is 00:13:29 They're places where predators hide in plain sight and use the marketing tactics of the website as an agency to recruit and convince and coerce young people into lives of sex work. And it's scary. It's actually terrifying. OK, So that was an amazing introduction. Oh, thank you. There's no way no anyone's going to turn off this interview now. But of course,
Starting point is 00:13:51 I want to go back and ask lots of questions. With the website Seeking Arrangements, I had Rachel Ucatel on We've Since Become Friends. And her story that I recall when she was on was someone discovered her on the website and wrote an article about it. And she made lemonade out of lemons. And they hired her to be almost like a spokesperson. And when she was doing that, you know, her in presenting it was, yeah, this is a dating site for women who want a man of a certain level and is putting it out there on the table. Like,
Starting point is 00:14:35 if you want to date, this is what I expect. And there was like a thing of like, you know, this girl's wish list. So you know that these are the Prada sunglasses that she would like if you'd like to, you know, a lot of men really get off and you know, the way it's presented, these rich guys get off and they love to buy gifts and you know, a $500 pair of sunglasses, why not get the ones you want?
Starting point is 00:14:59 You don't want them just going buying ones that don't fit your face. So like that type of thing. That relationship with her in that business ended and I'm not getting into why it ended because I don't really remember the details and I don't want to get into like a legal thing when it ended. And I actually had the owner also on Juicy Scoop promoting the website and what it was. He also at the time had a very young girlfriend.
Starting point is 00:15:28 I was like, oh, that's interesting. Do you think he'll get married and how does her family feel about it? With that all being said, yeah, I feel like I have kind of been following the world of sugar babies. I did a lot of episodes on it when it kind of exploded. There were billboards probably around 2017, 18, like off of Sunset Boulevard and things like that. And I talked to people that called in and wrote me. And I remember calling a couple of people myself just hearing their stories.
Starting point is 00:16:02 And it's interesting because we're going to get into that too, but their stories were similar to what you and I discussed, which we'll share on the show, that they were not that a lot of them would meet these guys on a date, have sex with them, thinking now it'll turn into a relationship in which I'll get my $10,000 a month and see them twice and go on a shopping spree. And they either never got paid at all for the initial time because it wasn't a boyfriend girlfriend yet, right? It was like an audition. And then they never hear from them again. So essentially, the man got sex for free.
Starting point is 00:16:36 Yes. And when you think about that Prince Charming fantasy, right, it's a bit of a fallacy because... It's a pretty woman fantasy, right? It's a bit of a fallacy because... It's a pretty woman fantasy, right? It's too good to be true for a reason because it's not true. Like, I mean, just let's logically think about it for two seconds. Why would a super rich, generous man need a website to find someone to spoil? It just doesn't make any sense. Like, when you think about the conundrum we're in with dating right now, it's that the high-value men have so many options and they can easily get sex without a website. So why would a high-value man need some sort of agency to get girls?
Starting point is 00:17:20 That is the first thing that just isn't true. And then the other part of it is the law of supply and demand dictates there are not enough rich men to go around. So if you simply think that every single girl who joins the site is going to find some rich man, where are they? They don't exist, right? So the majority of the men use the website and they pick up where Seeking's marketing leaves off, right? And they say, oh, yes, I'm this rich guy and I'm going to take you to Aruba, which is something
Starting point is 00:17:52 I write about in my book. My first experience on the website, I was coerced and tricked into sex. Instead of gifting more meaningless stuff this year, Shutterfly allows you to create truly personal and meaningful gifts for your family and friends with custom photo gifts upload photos from your phone How easy is that or social to shutterfly app to start creating gifts in minutes? Get photos off your phone and into a photo book don't have time you shutterfly 24-hour free designer service and they'll design the photo book for you. You guys, this is so fabulous.
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Starting point is 00:22:03 Pop Culture Moms. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. So why don't we hear about your first experience? Okay, well, let's go back a little bit on your life because it's a pretty juicy life to start. So in the book, you do share some of your teenage sexual experiences, which aren't unheard of, but definitely not,
Starting point is 00:22:27 didn't come out of committed love relationships. It seems like you were sort of seeking something as a teenager. And I want to ask you a little about that because you are bonafide across all, Kate, very attractive. Oh, thank you. But you are. I mean, did you not, like when you were like, did you not feel a pretty privilege? Like, or was it the pretty privilege of being pretty and getting attention that made you be a little bit promiscuous at a young age? Like, what is it?
Starting point is 00:22:56 Because I mean, it's like. It's a good point. I certainly had a glow up. I don't think when I write about an experience I had when I was 14, when I was preyed upon through AOL Instant Messenger, and the man lured me to a motel room to have sex with me. And he was much older.
Starting point is 00:23:12 He was in his 20s, right? Yeah, he was 26, and I was 14. And in my mind, I thought like this older guy likes me. I was like, wow, like he must think I'm really pretty. And I wasn't super confident back then. Like I don't think I was like super attractive as like a young kid. I mean, maybe I was, but I didn't feel that way necessarily. So to have a guy like tell me I'm so sexy and beautiful,
Starting point is 00:23:37 like we know now exactly what he was doing. He was coercing me and luring me with false promises. You know what's really interesting is you may have never seen this movie because you're younger, but it's a movie called Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Oh my gosh, I love Fast Times. Okay, so do you remember this part? So Jennifer Jason Leigh is working at the pizza place. And Phoebe Cates, and this book was written by a guy who these were his high school stories experiences in a mall in like Riverside or something.
Starting point is 00:24:07 I don't know where it was. In the mid to late 70s. And so she's like, you gotta have, you know, you gotta divergent yourself. This guy is hot, he works at the pizza place. That guy was about 26, drove a car, you know, and I think he said he was 26. She lied and said she was 17 or
Starting point is 00:24:26 something. He picked her up, took her to a baseball field where no one was, and then she lost it to him and she like never heard from him again. And so that was pre, you know, that was pre internet. All the internet has done is made this behavior that always existed much easier. And at a much greater scale. It's funny you mentioned that. I have not thought about that scene in so long, but yes, I remember it perfectly.
Starting point is 00:24:51 It's literally your story, but without the internet, it was just, you would have met him working at an ice cream store, you know? Exactly, and he would have known just what to say to me. And I mean, that's what men on any dating site or in the world like, I mean, yes, they do this. But the problem with this particular website is that it preys on vulnerable populations
Starting point is 00:25:12 and it sets them up to fail. And then the shame and secrecy of sex work and not wanting to share their experience because they're ashamed of what happened to them because they're ashamed of getting conned because they're scared that they were soliciting and they were asking for it, so they don't come forward. So I would guess there's thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions maybe of victims out there. Because when you think about it, one predator can hit dozens,
Starting point is 00:25:39 hundreds, thousands of girls. The site's been around for almost two decades. So the good ones, if there are any good ones, they get off the site. So do you think because your first few times of having sex were young and they were not these long committed, you know, I'm going to marry you, let's just have sex now that we're 15 or whatever kind of relationship. Do you think then, you know, then your perspective along with media and everything else was skewed as sex is casual, it's not really a big deal, it's not so what that I had sex with this person doesn't mean that he used me, doesn't mean that I'm a slut. Like what was your perspective?
Starting point is 00:26:20 I was, I guess, kind of tricked into thinking that sex could be casual as a woman. And I don't believe that anymore. I don't think women can have casual sex because of the hormones that we excrete when we're having it. It's the bonding hormone, whereas men don't release that. They release testosterone. So it's really easy for them to sleep around and not think much of it. But for women, that's not true.
Starting point is 00:26:42 And when I was young, I was kind of force-fed birth control, because at even the slightest hint of thinking about having sex, I was given a deprevera shot. Your mom took you? Yes. My mom took me to— And did she have a talk with you? Was she like, I don't know if you're thinking of having sex or not, but let's get you on the pill?
Starting point is 00:26:58 Like, what was the discussion about sex before marriage or whatever in your home? She thought that I was going do what I was gonna do anyway and wanted to embolden me to make my own decisions. And good on her because she was doing what she thought was right. And I think at the time that was kind of the thought is that, well, you know, their kids will be kids, they're gonna do what they're gonna do.
Starting point is 00:27:21 So you might as well have them be safe. And I mean, the real truth that I actually didn't mention in the book, but it's sort of an extension of that experience when I was 14. So after he had sex with me. The AOL guy. Yes, the guy from AOL.
Starting point is 00:27:36 He told me to go get the morning after pill. And so I did. Because you didn't use any protection at that point. And so I did. And I didn't really, like I detail kind of my mindset at that time, how I didn't really know what was going on. I was like, I knew like a little bit, but I didn't know what the morning after pill was.
Starting point is 00:27:57 Like I really didn't know. And so I went to Planned Parenthood, I think the next day, got the morning after pill and they gave me birth control. So a spiral of birth control. And I had it in my drawer and my mom found it. And she was like, what is this? I told you that if you ever wanted to have sex,
Starting point is 00:28:14 come to me and we'll go get birth control together. And so I was like, oh, I don't know, I just made up some lie or whatever. And at the time I hadn't had sex very many times. I probably had sex like three or four times. And I started taking the birth control pill and just thought that that's what you do if you want to have sex. And it wasn't until I was probably like 28 that I realized that birth control made me unstable and made me like seek out sex. Like made me like very horny and like willing to have sex, made me very horny
Starting point is 00:28:46 and willing to have sex with basically whoever because your hormones are all out of whack. And I'm not saying this is true for everyone. I'm just talking about what happened to me. But it took me a long time to understand that because I didn't have a chance to get off of it because it's kind of shoved down your throat at the doctor. They're like, oh, well, you're having sex.
Starting point is 00:29:02 You gotta get on birth control. And I just don't think that's right to do. I mean, in general, I don't think it's right to shove pills down people's throats when you could treat the symptom. But to go back to kind of what you're saying about my mindset at the time, I was very struck with the like slutty characters on TV, like One Tree Hill, there's that girl named Brooke. I never watched One Tree Hill. So tell me about Brooke. The other Brooke.
Starting point is 00:29:29 The other Brooke. Yes. Your Brooke and the character's name was Brooke. So of course, I was like, oh, her name's Brooke too. And she's like a white girl with brown hair. I was like, oh, cool. And it's Sophia something. She's a fantastic actor, so I love her.
Starting point is 00:29:41 But she is this kind of floozy kind of character who's always getting lots of attention from men and she kind of experiments with drugs. She's kind of like the bad girl, but she gets all of this attention and has storylines that revolve around her. And back then when I was watching it, I was like, oh, this is a character I can play.
Starting point is 00:30:02 And this is when you're like 14, 15. Yeah, I was so young. And then I actually rewatched the show recently. And I was just like, oh my god, I can't believe they were showing this to people. And I'm curious, and I don't know. What I realized in just a few years is how many of these things that did influence my mindset about romance life, all that, are
Starting point is 00:30:28 all male writers. They're all male. Like you know, even joking about bad, what I call dry bar 2000 romantic comedies, meaning they play them at the dry bar, are like almost all of them are written by guys. You know, the 27 dresses, all these kind of things. It's like, what do you know? are like almost all of them are written by guys. You know, the 27 dresses, all these kinds of things. I was like, what do you know? You know, a bunch of baseball cap wearing, you know,
Starting point is 00:30:48 writers in a room drinking coffee, wrote this movie about women and love, and you know, and if they're, you know, working, if they are successful and they can't find a man and they're tripping and they're falling over themselves. And once, you know, that whole cliche. But I want to go back to one thing which is crazy. So I remember watching some talk show before I was even probably a teenager.
Starting point is 00:31:15 And it was this woman who said, I give my daughter the birth control in a little cup with other vitamins. And she doesn't know she's on it. Oh my God. So this way if she does have sex, because the chances are no matter how much you beg your daughter to be open with you, she might not and she's protected. So she would take the little pop it out of the spiral, put it in with whatever, vitamin C and da-da-da. I remember thinking, put it in with whatever, vitamin C and da da da. And I remember thinking, oh, that's really genius.
Starting point is 00:31:47 I remember thinking that's kind of a genius move of a mom so that their daughter doesn't get knocked up. Because also when I was growing up, there were like these things called afterschool specialists and stuff. And teen pregnancy was like, if you get pregnant, you are thrown out on the street and your parents hate you and you are living in an apartment and then your boyfriend and you will eventually
Starting point is 00:32:10 hate each other and like it just was the worst stories. And parents would tell their kids, if you get pregnant, you're on your own. Then it's like then we saw, you know, teen mom where the 50 year old mom totally embraced the grandchild of the 16 year old. And they were really fucked up too. But it was a different thing where it's not people weren't throwing away their daughter and grandchildren the way even if if that was to happen to me, I don't know that my parents would do that.
Starting point is 00:32:40 But that was like the fear. So it was a really you really, really didn't want to get pregnant when I was growing up. And if you did, you know, you're going to do something about it or give the baby up or just be completely have your life ruined. And so I kind of thought, oh, that's sort of genius. But your reaction is mostly when I've told people that they're like, that's just horrible. I'm like, I don't know, like, is it? Like, I kind of wonder if nowadays with the rise of like Ozempic and stuff, would somebody go and go into their daughter's room and poke her in the middle of the night and have her not know that she's on Ozempic if she's struggling with weight? Like, I don't know that parents wouldn't do something like that.
Starting point is 00:33:20 Like, I get it's a weird, weird thing, something I would never do. Yeah, right. But like, the same way of your mom being honest, I think there's, I wonder how many other parents maybe weren't honest about that because the fear was so strong of like, yeah, it's weird. So then you, so then what happened after high school? Did you go to college or did you, where was your romantic life at that point? After high school, I went to UNLV to college and I ended up meeting a guy who made my fake ID and we got into a relationship and I found out about a year into dating him that he had
Starting point is 00:34:00 another girlfriend and was cheating on me the whole time. So at like 1920, that really like warped my view of relationships. And it kind of made me lean into the sugar life because I thought that if a guy who said he loved me so much could do that to me, then like maybe I wasn't ready for love and maybe I just needed to find myself. And then because of birth control and the idea that you can just have fun and have casual
Starting point is 00:34:30 sex, that's what I thought I would do. And it's not until looking back that you realize how those things really messed you up. And it did mess me up. You talked about One Tree Hill, but I feel like when Sex and the City started, we talked a little bit about this, when Sex and the City started, I was recently married. But these girls were basically just about my age, a couple years older than my age, the characters. And then of course, Kim Cattrall was supposed to be like 40 and the other girls were supposed to be like 32, 33 when the show started.
Starting point is 00:35:01 And of course, I love the show because it's so entertaining. But I remember watching it, you know, I'm from LA, I have friends, and I was like, you know, that were single and stuff. And I remember the amount of casual sex that they were all having. I was like, this is not my friends. Like who are the—does this exist in New York but not in LA? Like who is having this much sex? And you know Miranda
Starting point is 00:35:25 has sex with some guy after working out at the gym. I'm like who the fuck has sex after the gym? You know who does? Gay men. You know who's writing the show? Gay men. Yeah, right. You know so it was like there were some of that where I think glamorize like what a fun time to be single and dating and da da da da. And I kind of wonder if there was all the young girls that were maybe watching that at like 14. I was watching it at 30, but watching it at 14 who now are in their mid-30s, like did
Starting point is 00:35:53 it affect their view of dating and romance and taking more control, which could be seen as you know, not falling for these creepy guys, but also it could mean in your case like, no, I'm going to get something out of this. If I'm going to have sex with someone, I'm not going to clean the guy's house, be a loving thing and then still have him cheat on me. Fuck that. If every guy is an asshole, I might as well get a purse and is that sort of the toot that you had?
Starting point is 00:36:22 Yeah, that is exactly the toot. And I started on Tinder. I was on Tinder when it was in beta. I found it in the games section of the app store. And I was like, what's this game? I thought it was hot or not. And then I got on it. I was like, oh, it's an app where
Starting point is 00:36:37 you can date people. So I started meeting guys on Tinder and would have casual sex with them. And then they would ghost me. I wouldn't get anything. So I was like, well, I'm already online dating. I'm already kind of living this lifestyle in Vegas. Like it really didn't seem so far off to believe that. And actually the reason that I ended up joining the site initially was because my friend told me about it and she told me they were doing a reality show casting. So me at 21, I was like, oh shoot, like a reality show?
Starting point is 00:37:06 Like, yes. So I signed up for the website, emailed casting at seekingarrangement.com. So this isn't Tinder now, this is Seeking Arrangement. Oh, sorry, yes, that's how I got on Seeking Arrangement. Oh, okay, so first you just did Tinder for a while. Yes, and I found that myself. I found it like in the app store.
Starting point is 00:37:22 And then between Tinder and actually reaching out to the Seeking Arrangements, did you have any kind of sugar baby, light or whatever experience that you cultivated on your own? I was going to the club on the weekends. I would have guys pay for my nice dinners and obviously the bottle service and whatever. So that was happening. And then I saw my friends getting things from paid for by guys. But I didn't have any of those experiences. I actually was scammed by a sugar daddy type guy.
Starting point is 00:37:54 Let's hear that story. So he took me and my friend on this weekend. To where? To well, we were in Las Vegas to Newport. So we just like went for the weekend to Newport, just like for a couple nights. And did he like pay for your flight? Yes. OK.
Starting point is 00:38:09 Paid for everything. He was coming off a big win in Vegas. So first we had to. How old was this guy? Was he cute? What's the deal? I mean, he wasn't like that bad. He definitely like wasn't cute.
Starting point is 00:38:18 He was probably like 38, 39 or something like that. And you guys were in your early 20s? I was 21. OK. And why could you take a friend? Did you think that you were going to have to perform a threesome, or did you just think you could guys were in your early 20s? I was 21. Okay. And why could you take a friend? Did you think that you were gonna have to perform a threesome or did you just think you could take a friend
Starting point is 00:38:28 and figure it out? She actually took me. Oh, okay. So we had gone out to dinner with them one night. I guess she knew one of his friends or whatever. We went to STK one night and they spent like $1,000 probably on dinner and then they gave us money to go to the blackjack table.
Starting point is 00:38:44 And so I ended up going home after that, but she stayed with him. And the next day she calls me and she's like, hey, get down here, we're at Nordstrom, we're shopping. Like, he's asking about you. And I was like, okay, cool. So I go down to Nordstrom, he bought us like some swimsuits and stuff.
Starting point is 00:38:56 And he's like, do you wanna go to Newport for the weekend? And I was like, sure. So we went to- But I have to ask a question. When you're trying, when you're, so you get there, cause I always wanted this too. When you're trying, when you're, so you get there, because I always wanted this too. When you're in a situation with either sugar baby or just a new boyfriend who's generous and he's like, let's go shopping.
Starting point is 00:39:11 This is where I think it would be hard for me. How, where do you go from just picking up like, you know, a $200 outfit to going, oh, can I see the Chanel quilted bag for 11 grand? Like, how do you waver that? And did he say, I'm just buying you bikinis, and I want to see you come out and model? What was the story there? So it's funny.
Starting point is 00:39:35 I actually write about that push and pull in my head of, like, what do I get? Do I get too much? I don't want to squander the opportunity. But I also want to walk away with something. So no, I didn't have to model the bikinis or anything like that. He wasn't even with us when we were shopping.
Starting point is 00:39:49 We were like doing our own thing. And then he came back, I guess, from wherever he was shopping for shoes or something like that, and just went to the till and he just paid for everything. So it wasn't, I didn't feel like I had to do anything with him. I mean, he was like coming off a big win.
Starting point is 00:40:04 So I think it was just like pennies to him. He just like wasn't really, and they love to, that's the thing is like guys love to flaunt it when they got it because they want you to know they got it like that. And that's the only reason. So then he was like, oh, do you want to go to Newport? And I was like, all right, sure.
Starting point is 00:40:19 Like this might be a sugar daddy situation. Like, what are we going to do? So we ended up going to Newport. It was kind of weird. I didn't do anything with him. I don't think she did anything with him, like sexual or whatever. What was the room situation? It was a double queen, like kind of near the water.
Starting point is 00:40:33 And she slept in the bed with him. And when I woke up, his arm was around her, and he was like snoring. But I don't think they did anything. I think we were both all, we were all really drunk. So I think we just kind of like stumbled home or whatever. And then the next day we left. And at the time he had told me that he was a bookie.
Starting point is 00:40:54 So he needed people to place bets for him in Las Vegas. And I was like, oh shoot. I was like, I'm 21, like I could do that. Obviously I didn't really think it was illegal at the time, which now I obviously know it is. But I was like, okay, sure. Yeah, I'll do that for you. So the next week he calls me up and well, there was another situation where he had come out, I think promptly after the Newport trip, he came back out to Vegas and stayed at the Cosmopolitan and we ended up getting him kicked out of his suite.
Starting point is 00:41:23 Why? How? Because, and this isn't the case anymore, I think, because of us. They probably changed this. But there's this suite on the 14th floor. It's like a wraparound suite. And the railing of the balcony is kind of flush with the rooftop of Marquis Day Club or nightclub or whatever. And one of the guys that was staying there was like, hey, look, we can go on the roof. Like, do you guys want to go on the roof? And the guy who's the scammer guy was like, no, no, don't go out there. We're going to get in trouble.
Starting point is 00:41:51 And so then like after a few shots, we like went out on the roof of Marquis and like, we're like, we like took a picture out there. And then when we came back, there was like a knock at the door and it was security. And they were like, you gotta go, like kicking us out. Cause we had obviously like gone on, we're not supposed to go on the fricking roof.
Starting point is 00:42:06 And they kicked him out, like back up the shit? They kicked him out of his suite. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was like a comp. Because like that's when you spend a lot of money at the casinos, you get like a free room or whatever. So yeah, basically they were like, you're out of here. And so he was obviously very perturbed about that. So after that happened, I think it was like a few days later,
Starting point is 00:42:24 I felt bad about that happening, after that happened, I think it was like a few days later, I felt bad about that happening, kind of guilty. And he called me up and he's like, hey, I've got this bet for you to place. You got to make it fast though, because the game is about to start and like you got to go down there and do it. And I was like, I don't have any money for that. He's like, no, I'll pay you back. I'll pay you back. Just like do whatever you can to like get the ticket. Like I promise I'll pay you back. So what did you have to spend? It was $500.
Starting point is 00:42:46 And it was literally, I had like $512 in my checking account. And I was like, all right, like he's gonna pay me back. Like big risk, big reward. I was like, well, if it wins, I win 6,000. And then maybe I'll have to split it with him or something like that. But I was like, shoot, like I could come up. And the ticket was not a winner.
Starting point is 00:43:03 He ghosted me and I was out $500. And so I was destitute right in need of money. And I was still trying to like recoup my funds. And I paid for my own college like I was like working at the time I was actually working for an adult novelty wholesaler, which I talked about in the book, which kind of like got me into the sex industry without really being in the sex industry because I was selling like these novelties. I was working at like a warehouse basically for a manufacturer. You're selling like what like dildos and stuff? It was a male chastity device. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:43:34 What is that? Exactly. It's like a fetish, like a tease play device. For straight men or gay men? For both. I mean, for I I guess, people with a penis. And it's like a medical-grade polycarbonate device that goes over the shaft, and there's a ring that goes behind the testicles. You might have seen them in novelty shops and stuff, and it traps the balls between the ring and the cage, and there's a lock on the top.
Starting point is 00:44:03 Listen. All that effort, I'm like, I'd rather just get it one and done and go to bed. This is a lot. Anyway, go on. Yeah, I mean, I don't wanna kink shame, but I worked there for three years. I don't wanna be there.
Starting point is 00:44:15 It's just not my thing. It's just a lot of effort. And the people who are very interested in that have weird proclivities and whatever. Anyway, so I ended up working there because my mom is a graphic designer and she actually designs packaging for novelties. It's kind of her niche that she developed proclivities and whatever. Anyway, so I ended up working there because my mom is a graphic designer and she actually designs packaging for novelties.
Starting point is 00:44:28 It's kind of her niche that she developed after this job. Anyway, it was all very weird, but it was a family-run company. It really wasn't weird when I was there. It was only weird when I was answering the phones and talking to people with their wiener in their hand or whatever. Anyway, so I was working there at the time.
Starting point is 00:44:42 I write about it a little bit. Didn't have a lot of money and was broke after that guy scammed me. And then my friend told me about this little website where you can get guys to give you money. And I was like, oh, really? I was like, well, that's not so far off from what I'm already experiencing, right?
Starting point is 00:45:00 These guys are signing away $5,000 at the club for a couple bottles. Like what what's so far-fetched about me thinking that they would just give me some of that money? Or sometimes the guys will give us money to play at the tables. So it really wasn't that far off. And then the reality show idea, that sends a deal for me. I was like, oh, shoot. Like, now explain that.
Starting point is 00:45:21 So they send out email. This is back in 2013, okay, so they would send out emails to the girls on the site, the sugar baby accounts that said, hey, we're doing a reality show casting. Let me know if you want to be on the reality show. So of course I'm like, yes, like I want to be on the reality show, you know, like I don't want to get a job. I want to go be a reality star.
Starting point is 00:45:41 So I know, right? And so I emailed them. And I was like, hey, I really want to do this. And like 20 minutes later, the guy calls me. He's like, hey, you're perfect for this opportunity. Like, all you need to do is like come down to the palms and like this and that. And I write about exactly what happened.
Starting point is 00:45:57 But basically, it was a one-off show. And like I told him, I was like, I don't have any experience on the site like I've I literally just signed up I've never had a sugar daddy like I don't know he's like oh that's fine don't worry about it I'm like okay so I go down there and it was a complete farce like I was so terrible like what year around 2013 okay so the PR manager actually cast a sugar daddy as well to be in the piece, but the sugar daddy didn't show up. So the PR manager assumed the role of sugar daddy himself
Starting point is 00:46:29 and went on camera for this interview. It was like, what I remember is it being for the travel channel and it was about the most wildest parts of Vegas or something. I don't know, it's kind of like gossipy news. Back then it was really popular. And I know the interview was so terrible because I was so nervous.
Starting point is 00:46:45 And this guy, I didn't even know him, and he's supposed to be my sugar daddy. It was so weird. But before they would even cast me, it was a paid opportunity. So they paid me $250 to appear. But they had me sign a contract that said I wouldn't tell production that I was paid,
Starting point is 00:47:04 because in most cases, like journalistic integrity dictates that you can't have paid case studies. Like it's different if it's an actor or an actress, but if it's a case study that is saying what they do or talking about their lives, then that person isn't supposed to be paid because like there's like an unspoken agreement
Starting point is 00:47:23 that like you're doing this because you wanna share your story, not because you're being paid to share your story. Got it. So most journalists won't even work with you if you're being paid. But I had to sign a contract that said I wasn't being paid. But I of course was. And I also had to sign the contract said that I wouldn't say
Starting point is 00:47:37 I've been paid for sex, which at the time I was like, what? I was like, I wouldn't do that, you know? But then when I actually got on the site, I realized that that's what was happening, is people are trying to pay for sex. But they tout it as, oh, no, no, it's not that. It's just rich guys. It's just this and so your mindset kind of is like, oh, but they're saying it's not that. So I believe what they're saying. And it's on TV. It's in the New York Post. So if it was illegal, if it was really sex work,
Starting point is 00:48:07 if it was really prostitution, then why would it be on TV? Why wouldn't it be shut down if it was really illegal? And so that's kind of the mindset that kind of tricks you into thinking that it's not sex work, which is what it is. So when you get on the site, there's a flood of messages in my inbox, 500 no condom. Like, that's the norm of what— That's what they're offering you.
Starting point is 00:48:29 Yes. Yes. That's the messages that I would get from sugar daddies. Not like, do you like to go sailing? Absolutely not. No. It's—I'm not saying that there isn't like maybe a small piece of the pie that's guys who really just want to spoil you and really just. But in that case, like, why would they need a website to do that? Like, why wouldn't they just like be a normal guy and just like be nice and like go out and meet girls? Like you don't need a website where there's an explicit exchange of money for something in order to to get those girls. Like it just it doesn't make any sense. And that's really not what happens
Starting point is 00:49:02 on the website. Okay. The problem with the website is that there's two parties who neither one of them think it's sex work. The girls on the site are willing to be paid for sex, of course, but they're not sex workers. And the men on the site are. They're giving you the girlfriend experience. That's what it's called, yeah. An escorting term is the girlfriend experience,
Starting point is 00:49:24 which is where the girl actually pretends that she likes you and like goes out on dates and stuff. And I mean, it's sometimes that but I would say trips and shopping. Yeah. And I mean, maybe it is sometimes that. But most of the time, in my experience, it's men who are lying about what they're going to offer you trying to get sex for free, or just straight up paying for sex. But neither party in it see it as sex work. So it leaves both parties to be very vulnerable and be able to get scammed in one way or another because no one's being honest about what's going on and the marketing and the fact that the website still exists and is still around despite like actually legal changes that happen. So what is your approach to gift giving?
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Starting point is 00:52:45 shipping on qualified orders. See site for more details. So tell me about your first experience and what you were hoping for when you decided to like actually have a conversation with this person. Did you talk on the phone before you met? Like walk me through it. So the first guy I met on the site was named John, fitting, of course. So John said he was in the movie business, and I think we just texted beforehand. And did you see a photo of him first?
Starting point is 00:53:11 He sent me a photo, but his face wasn't in the photo. What was the photo of then? I mean, his body, I guess. I don't even know if it was of him after meeting him. But that's what most people on the website did back then, is they didn't have real pictures of themselves. And how old did he say he was? He said he was like 45 or something like that,
Starting point is 00:53:27 and I was 21. And so I went to the Hard Rock Hotel, which is now The Virgin, and to the Circle Bar, and met up with him and got very drunk. Of course, I was so nervous, and he's just pouring me more and more wine. And so I went back to his room with him. So you're chatting for like a couple hours at the bar?
Starting point is 00:53:48 Yeah, maybe like an hour. And then he kept complaining that it was too loud that he couldn't hear me. And so he wanted to go up to the room so we could talk better. And I was like, okay. And then he poured me a drink. In the room.
Starting point is 00:54:00 In the room, yeah. And I mean, I don't know for sure if I was drugged, but what I remember after that is being like very disoriented. And like maybe I was just super drunk, but I mean, he did like pour me a drink or whatever, like with his back turned to me in the room. So I don't really know what happened, but he starts telling me all these sweet nothings.
Starting point is 00:54:20 He's like, you know, I have this trip to Aruba planned and I want you to come with me and be my sugar baby and all of this and like, you know, I have this trip to Aruba planned and I want you to come with me and be my sugar baby and all of this and like being so sweet, telling me how beautiful and wonderful I was. And I had literally never had any experiences on the website. So me, I was like, oh, shoot, like, this is exactly what the website promised is this guy that wants to take me on a trip. Like, oh, lucky me.
Starting point is 00:54:44 I just found it right away. And then, of course, he sleeps with me and then tells me to leave. And how was that? Two seconds. Two seconds, and you play over and over again. I don't even remember. I really don't.
Starting point is 00:54:57 So then he asks you to leave? Yes. So then he asks me to leave. And I remember I could barely walk. And there's like those chairs right by the elevators. And I remember sitting in the chair by the elevator for a little while and just kind of trying to catch my balance. And this lady wakes me up and she's like, are you OK?
Starting point is 00:55:13 And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And so then I, I guess, went down to my car and drove home. I woke up the next morning in my bed, not really sure how I got there. And then I tried to call him and text him. He never talked to me again. So that is the typical experience on the website. So no money exchange.
Starting point is 00:55:29 Absolutely not. No trip to Aruba. No trip to Aruba. OK. So then after that experience, did you try it one more time, or what happened? Yeah. So I got back on the site.
Starting point is 00:55:38 I was like, oh, god, I'm such an idiot for falling for it. And so the next time I got on the site, it was actually another guy named John, John number two. And he was very curmudgeonly, like he was a little bit older, probably like 55 or something like that. And he was just kind of crass and rude a little bit. I was like, oh, it's obvious why he needs to pay for girls because he's not a prize.
Starting point is 00:56:01 And he ends up winning at the craps table. With you, while you're singing. Yeah, with me. Yeah, I'd never played craps before in my life, but of course, got very drunk. And I think that's a common thread in all of these stories is like someone gets very drunk and that's because you're nervous, right?
Starting point is 00:56:17 So, and I was 21, I like didn't really know how to hold my alcohol. And he ends up winning probably like 10 grand or something like that. And we went back up to his room but I was so drunk, I just passed out. And I remember waking up just on top of the bed with my shoes still on. Like nothing happened like him or whatever.
Starting point is 00:56:38 Clothes are on, shoes are on, like nothing. And where's he? Asleep too? So he was actually, I woke up to him pushing the room service cart in. Okay. He had just gotten some, is it the wind? So it's like a rather large room. And he's like, oh, I got you some room service
Starting point is 00:56:53 and I left you something in your purse. I was like, oh, okay. So I get up and I like go look in my purse and there's like a wad of cash in my purse. How much was it? It was $1,500. Okay. And so I like kind of thumb through it.
Starting point is 00:57:04 I was like, oh shoot. I was like, that's more money I'd ever seen in my life in cash. Like, that's mine. I was like, Oh dang. So then I go on the couch and he's like, kind of like fondling me and feeling like holding it up like pretty woman. Remember when she did that? I always thought that was such a weird scene that she didn't use a knife and fork as if she's so like eating a pancake like a muffin. Yeah. I was so nauseous from like, I mean, I have actually found now that I think I'm allergic to alcohol. Like I cannot have large quantities of alcohol. I just I thought that like when you take a shot, you just have to throw up. Like that's how everyone feels.
Starting point is 00:57:36 I mean, if I was you at this point, I would be like, all right, I got $1500. I didn't have to do anything with this crotchety dude. I got a good breakfast. Yeah, I'm a little hungover, but that's on me. I'd be like, I'd probably be game to go do this again now, even though I had the shitty first experience. Well, that's- Is that what you were thinking?
Starting point is 00:57:58 Yes, but that's not where the experience ended. Okay, keep going. So he starts like loving on me and stuff and like I like take the money and leave. No. Yeah. Like I like hadn't showered and like I feel like I smelled really bad. And so I was like, Oh, no, like, I don't like no, I don't think so. And so I told him I was on my period. And so that like turned him off, right? Right. But then he's like, do you want to take a shower? And I was like, with him? Yes. And so at the time I was like, well, I mean, if he's going to be filling my purse with money all the time, like all I have to do
Starting point is 00:58:29 is go take a shower with him. Like, all right, might as well. I was like, okay, not really sure how I was going to navigate that particular situation. Get in the shower, basically gave him like a quick oral sex experience. Cleanup was easy and then off he goes. And he was like, oh, you can order room service or whatever you want. But I was like so sick, I like vomited and then I just left. And I was like, okay, like one experience was really bad. And then one experience, I guess it wasn't like great. Like I didn't love this guy.
Starting point is 00:58:55 Yeah. Like I didn't want to hit him up again. But I ended up leaving my watch in the room. Was it expensive? I mean, I don't really remember. I think it was like, I think I had gotten for Christmas or something. So it wasn't like not a nice watch. And I called him, tried to maybe get the watch back and he didn't answer me.
Starting point is 00:59:13 He goes to me. He never talked to me again. So like, okay, whatever. So it's kind of not- It's crazy that you're doing this and you're still getting horrible ghosting rejection that a normal person would be getting on dating. Like it's even worse, you know? Okay, so then what happened?
Starting point is 00:59:33 Well, I mean, just to say that like a lot of times it's not so cut and dry. It's more nuanced than maybe you think it is. It's not like I said, hey, you're going to pay me $1,500 and I'm going to give you a BJ in the shower. No one said anything like that. No one said anything at all. It was just like kind of implied, like, oh, well, he gave me the money,
Starting point is 00:59:52 and if you want more money, then you know you have to do this. So I think that's a lot of times what it is, and I think people think it's more cut and dry. This is how much it costs. I'm not to say that that doesn't happen. Like a lot of people are specific about like their pricing and stuff, but I was never like that
Starting point is 01:00:08 because I wasn't a sex worker. I didn't know what I was doing. And most of the women on the site don't know what they're doing. They're super young. They don't consider themselves sex workers. So it leaves them very vulnerable in these situations. So then after this guy, you don't hear from him again.
Starting point is 01:00:25 So now there's been two experiences. Then what happens? Then I ended up meeting a guy who was like a little bit younger and he was very cute and said he was different than the other guys on the site. He's called the trust fund guy in my book. And I did end up meeting up with him a few times. But the first time I met up with him, he bought me a bikini. Apparently these guys always buy you a bikini.
Starting point is 01:00:48 And we went to Wet Republic. And then he kind of ditched me to like go hang out with like his other friends basically. Like- While you're at the Wet Republic. Yes, we were all at Wet Republic and he's like, okay, we're gonna go to dinner now. I was like, okay, cool.
Starting point is 01:01:00 So we all go back to the Wynn. And he's how old? He was 29, he said. Oh, okay, great. So I was 21, he was 29. So I was like, oh, win. And he's how old? He was 29, he said. Oh, OK, great. So I was 21, he was 29. So I was like, oh, cool. And he was really nice. And then when we get back to the win, he's like, OK, bye.
Starting point is 01:01:10 I'll see you later. We're going to go to dinner now. And I thought I was going to dinner with them, but he was ditching me at the win and telling me to go off and with my new bikini or whatever. I was like, OK, fine. So then I end up meeting up with him again, like a few months later. And he tries to sodomize me without my consent. And we get into an argument and I left. And then
Starting point is 01:01:35 that was that situation. And I write about all these in the book. And then the last time I met up with him was actually at his place in New York. When I realized how rich he was. So he was very rich. He was a very rich, trust-fund guy. His family name is on many buildings in New York, and so he's like a legacy. And I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know who the heck he was, but I was able to learn. And he basically wants sex to be easy. So he's got money, he pays for it.
Starting point is 01:02:04 There's a lot of different kind of categories that these guys fall into. It's a very small percentage are like these super rich guys who just really want it to be easy and just pay for it. That's like maybe 10% or maybe like 5%. I feel like the image is a guy in his mid 40s to like 55. This is the way I feel like it's portrayed. And he may or may not have a wife, but he'd like a hot girlfriend to be discreet, not expect to get married, not have his baby. But when he has a business trip, when he has something, then you could go with him and, you know, be there for the sex, shut up when he wants to watch the game, and he's not going to care about your feelings, you can't say you were mean to me, like, and that's
Starting point is 01:02:53 where it's like transactional. Yes, exactly. And the sex workers, and just to clarify, like sugar babies are sex workers, like straight up, like I don't think there's a difference. I think there's a girlfriend experience kind of situation. But if you are being paid a lot of money and you are being elevated to that level, you are having sex and that is what you're being paid for.
Starting point is 01:03:14 You're being paid to keep quiet, to be complacent and sometimes be complicit when you're reeling in other girls for sexual. Like a threesome or whatever. Or orgies or whatever. Like a lot of these people are kind of like sexual deviants and so they're interested in like having orgies and like doing crazy stuff. And I'm not saying everyone is like that but yes the situation that you're talking about it certainly does happen. I would say maybe like five, ten percent of the people on the site
Starting point is 01:03:42 are really just like kind of well-meaning, just want it to be easy, want someone to go on a trip with them or whatever. Of those type of people, I would say 90% of them are married. And the majority of the people, not just those type of good people on the site, right? The majority of the people are married. Like that's a common through line is that these are married men who want to easily get sex on the side and they don't want a professional because they don't want the idea in their head that they're paying someone for sex because that just hurts their ego. So they want to find someone who's young, a young college girl who doesn't have the perceived stank of like a weathered sex worker. And so that's who they find. And I mean, I'm not
Starting point is 01:04:32 saying that there are all bad experiences on the site. Like a broken clock is right twice a day, right? So there are like a fraction, like maybe like 5% of people who do really find that and have really good experiences. But the majority of experiences are not that at all. And when I first started on the website in 2013, it was a very different place because- I know people are going to be mad at me if we don't finish the trust fund. Oh, yeah. So I just want to finish that story before we forget. Okay, so you go to New York, you really do see how rich he is, you are having sex with
Starting point is 01:05:09 him, and then that unfortunate night happens where he wanted to do something you didn't? Or how did it end with him? So, I saw him three times. The first time was the wet republic experience, the next time he came back to Vegas, tried to sodomize me, and then the next time I was actually in New York already, I was there for my job and I changed my seeking arrangement location to New York to see what kind of guys I would meet and he ends up hitting me up again. And I go over to his place and it was very late at night and I think he had just taken
Starting point is 01:05:40 a Xanax or something and nothing happened. He basically got me a car. When I got there, I was there for an hour, we smoked some weed and then he got me a car and sent me home. And I thought we were gonna have sex because I was like, he's hot, he's rich, whatever. But that ended up not happening
Starting point is 01:05:54 and then I never talked to him again. Or maybe I did talk to him here and there but I was like, no, I don't think so. So I mean, if you want the details, you can read what's in the book. No, read the book, okay. So I was just wondering what happened without. Yeah, no, nothing really.
Starting point is 01:06:06 So then after you said you had a few experiences, and then what happened? So I ended up meeting a guy on the site who lived in Miami and was kind of like no prize or anything. But he was really spoiling me. He was like, he came out to Vegas. He bought me stuff from Saks, and he flew me out to Miami a couple times.
Starting point is 01:06:27 And when you were, you know, I've had this guy on, and he calls himself like the, you know, the, I don't like the name, but he calls himself the Horror Whisperer. That's where I found him on TikTok. And he was saying, I encourage my friends who are dating rich guys to only buy from, only get things from, oh gosh, what were the two stores? I think Neiman's and one other store, you can return the thing for cash. In these other stores, you can't. And in choosing items for the sugar daddy to buy you, like really stick with like Chanel and like Rolex and like Hermé because they actually go up in value where a lot of like the Yves Saint Laurent and stuff like that don't aren't worth that much as a when you with the spoiling guy were you thinking about that or were you
Starting point is 01:07:18 just getting what looked cute? I was getting what he wanted me to get. Oh, okay. So tell me about that. And I mean, I think that kind of is the situation a lot of times is the man decides what you get. Oh. You get what you get and like it.
Starting point is 01:07:31 So he dresses you, he bought what he bought for me. Okay, so you go to the store. Like I kind of want to hear the shopping experience. Yeah. Okay. Well, so here, let me hear that. So first, before I even met him, I was at work that day and he went shopping for me that day. And this is why you're still working
Starting point is 01:07:46 at the novelty adult place. Okay. Yes. This was the, and he hated that. He was like, oh no, I don't want you in the sex industry. So I was like, well, if I'm gonna get out of it, then you're gonna have to pay me. And so, so before I'd even met this man in person, he was shopping for me at Saks
Starting point is 01:08:02 and he bought me a dress and some shoes, some Jimmy Choos, a size too small. So I go up to his room to like... The shoes were too small. The shoes were too small. When you can't wear those. When I get up to the room, I realize they're a size too small and try to shove my wide foot in them and that doesn't work. So he's like, oh, don't worry, we'll go back to Saks tomorrow and we'll exchange them. And I was like, okay, great. Like we're gonna go shopping. So we go back to Saks the next day
Starting point is 01:08:26 and he picks out a St. Laurent pump and I picked out like a different, like the tribute sandal and he's like, those are hooker shoes. And I was like, okay. So then he picks out another one, equally hooker-ish if you ask me. And he's like, no, I like these ones.
Starting point is 01:08:42 You're gonna get these ones. And I was like, okay. So like my, I have like really wide feet. Like my toes are kind of all the same size, like not shaped for European shoes at all. And so I like shove my foot in there like Cinderella's ugly stepsister and then trot down the aisle for him. I'm like, do you like them? And he's like, yeah, they're great. And so I was like, okay, like I guess this is what I get. And do you think when you were doing this, did you think anyone was looking, observing, knowing
Starting point is 01:09:08 what the situation was? I mean, the salespeople were watching me, with this guy with a pot belly balding, not cute, playing on his phone. And me, this little girl, the optics were very clear what was going on. Okay, okay, cool. And so I call him the Milk Dud in my book, but, because his head looked like a giant Milk Dud.
Starting point is 01:09:32 And so- Sexy. Yeah, so I kind of like write about like how my mindset was in that situation where I was thinking that I was gonna receive these spoils. So I was complacent with his bad actions. And even when I got the shoes, I was gonna receive these spoils. So I was complacent with his bad actions. And even when I got the shoes, I was like, do I even want these shoes? Or do I just like want my friends to know I have them?
Starting point is 01:09:53 Do I even care? But then obviously I had the shoes. And then when I went out with my friends and the shoes, I'm like, oh, cute shoes. I'm like, oh, thank you, they really hurt. So it's weird. Like you think that- So then what else did you get?
Starting point is 01:10:05 Did you get anything else or just the shoes? It was just, yeah, it was just the shoes. We just returned the Jimmy Choos and got the Saint Laurent pumps. And then when he flew me out to Miami the next time, he didn't really get me anything. So did you sleep with him that first time? Yes. Yeah, I slept with him the first time.
Starting point is 01:10:22 It was gross. And I kind of assumed that was the case because he bought me this dress. And so I'm like in the dress. And how much was the dress? I think it was like 500 or something like that. He had already bought it from me. He had already picked it out for me. And did that look good on you? I mean, I had a few extra pounds on me, so I was kind of like stuffed into it. But I
Starting point is 01:10:42 mean, I thought it was really cute. I think I still have it somewhere. But I mean, it was a really cute dress. And I wore it that night. And then I obviously went back up to his room with him. And then I'm like in the dress. I'm like, well, I guess this is consent if I'm wearing the dress. I mean, I guess I have to now, right?
Starting point is 01:10:56 And so yeah, I mean, we had very brief sex. And then the next couple of weeks later, he flew me out to Miami. And I was under the impression that like, oh, we're gonna go shopping, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. And that was not the case at all. We went to the Gator Park and we did like basic crap.
Starting point is 01:11:17 Like it wasn't, like I was under the impression that- You mean alligators? Yes. Oh. Like a wildlife park. We did like an airboat ride. Like it was- So now you really had to like hang out. So then I was like just kind of enjoying his company
Starting point is 01:11:31 or whatever. And so- And did you have sex there too? Yeah, I think we did. I don't remember. It was like, I mean, it was all very quick. So I don't exactly remember what happened that trip. But then he, for my birthday, it was my 22nd birthday,
Starting point is 01:11:47 he flew me out to Miami again and we were gonna go to Key West. And I was like, oh, it's my birthday, he's really gonna spoil me this time. You're gonna be on a beautiful beach resort at least. I was like, oh, he's probably gonna get me a helicopter ride or something cool. And we drove in his truck to Key West from Miami,
Starting point is 01:12:05 like the drive, which is actually a really beautiful drive across the aisles. It's like the seven mile highway or whatever. And so I was like, all right, fine. My birthday is coming up. He's really going to- And are you having to talk to him the whole time, or could you just look out the window?
Starting point is 01:12:18 I mean, yes and no. Oh, I remember he took me by the University of Miami campus. And he's like, oh, this is where I used to go to school. And that's where you'll get your master's degree. And I was like, my master's degree? I don't even want to be in school right now. But his fantasy was that I would be a college girl forever. And I would just stay this young college girl that just is.
Starting point is 01:12:42 And I'm like, OK, well, you have it twisted. And was he ever married or anything? He had not been married, he said, but he did have a son in Michigan or something like that. So he was generous with you, but you really don't know if he was a wealthy person. No, and I don't think he was. I think he had a few bucks to spend on me,
Starting point is 01:13:00 but then for my birthday, he's like, oh, we're gonna rent a boat. And so me- In Key West. Yeah, in Key West. So I thought we were gonna rent a boat. And so me, yeah, in Key West. So I thought like we're going to rent a speedboat. Like Miami Vice. Sporty. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:13:10 I was like, I'm going to be on the bow of something sporty. And he rented me the fishing boat from hell. It was not cute. It was a freaking fishing boat. It smelled like tuna guts. Like there's one little seat and didn't get any food. It was like a terrible, like it was not what I thought it was going to be at all. And then when it finally came time to like give me my gift, he had asked for,
Starting point is 01:13:30 I wanted a watch with a big face. And so- And the gift was a dick in the box. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. And then I go- What was the gift? It was like a Burberry watch. Okay. And I mean, it was probably like 500 bucks or something. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And I think he got me like another dress. It was like a Roberto Covelli dress, but it didn't fit me. He didn't understand my sizes or thought I had like giant breasts or something. Like I did not fill out this dress. And so I was like, okay, like this is nice. But I just felt like he spent more money on me in Las Vegas than he did for my birthday. And so I was just
Starting point is 01:14:04 like, oh, like, I guess it's not really what I expected. I was like, but fine. So at that point, we had negotiated that I would quit my job. And he would give me money each month. He was going to give me $1,500 a month. That's not enough to quit your job, though.
Starting point is 01:14:18 Well, it was for my bills. And then he was going to, like, I mean, the plan, he wanted me to move to Miami eventually. So I think he was, like, kind of giving me going to, like, I mean, the plan, he wanted me to move to Miami eventually. So I think he was like kind of giving me enough to like sustain me. And then was trying to just like get me out there, like I guess as I would need things or whatever. And then, I mean, it was back in 2013.
Starting point is 01:14:35 And what were you thinking at that point? Were you thinking really this is an option or were you like, were you like, oh my God, Brooke, you do not want to be hanging out with this guy for the next five years. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, when did you have like a come to Jesus moment where you're like, what am I doing this? Isn't that fun? This isn't that great?
Starting point is 01:14:50 I mean, I guess not yet. Well, so he wanted to take me on a trip around the world. He was like, oh, well, you know, we could go on a trip and our different locations will like progress our latitude and we'll go around the whole world. So we're going to go on this like long month long vacation. So that was kind of like in my mind. I was like, oh shoot. Like I am.
Starting point is 01:15:08 Do you think like because for me I would be all yeah excited about the trip. But then I'd be like, but if you didn't, maybe you did like him, but I'm thinking you didn't. So I'm like, you do have to talk to him, see him, be around him, see his toenails. Like all of that for a year. Like I don't think anything sounds worse, honestly. At the time, I didn't like him and I didn't think that I like wanted to be with him. But I think part of it too was like my mindset
Starting point is 01:15:35 was that like, I want to have these experiences. Okay. Like the experiences and the feeling that I had seen, cause I'm in Las Vegas, right? So I've seen other girls like getting these experiences. Got it. And I was like, because I'm in Las Vegas, right? So I had seen other girls getting these experiences. And I was like, I'm cute enough to get that. I want that too. And so, social media was kind of on the rise, right?
Starting point is 01:15:54 Like Instagram had been around for a few years, and people are posting all this crazy stuff on Instagram. I was like, oh shoot, I could do that. So I really wanted to take the trip. I had never been on a big trip like that. So I really wanted to take the trip. Like I had never been like kind of on a big trip like that. And that was my goal. So I ended up not selecting my final semester of classes, because he was going to take me on the trip. And so it ended up that I requested my allowance from him a little bit too promptly, and he got the feeling that I was using him.
Starting point is 01:16:30 And so he ghosted me. So that was after he was supposed to like pay me, but I had already quit my job and not picked my classes. So I was kind of in a bind where I was like, well, financial aid had passed. So I didn't have money for classes. I couldn't pick my classes. I didn't have a job. And it just so happened that when I met the people that worked at Seeking Arrangement,
Starting point is 01:16:55 they had offered me a job. How did you meet them then? So after the initial casting, I was then offered a modeling opportunity for some content they were shooting for a new dating website. And if you want to look at the most cringe photos in the world, you can go find the photos for carrot dating, not the diamond kind, the carrot with green stems. There's some very cringe photos out there. There's like a W wired article that came out at the time for this app they were launching. And what was that about? It was about bribing someone for a date. So instead of giving her money, you would give
Starting point is 01:17:32 her a gift. Oh. I know. So all very weird, very salacious. And that no longer exists. I don't think so. I honestly have no idea. Okay. But I went to this stock photography shoot and it was clean. There wasn't anything in particular.
Starting point is 01:17:46 It wasn't like I didn't have to take my clothes off or anything like that. And at the time I was like broke. So it was before that, the Milk Dead guy. It was before any of that happened. It was like right after I had joined the site. So I really had no experiences yet. But when I met the marketing manager at that shoot, she asked me what I did. She's like, do you have a job? You're in school. And I told her I was a journalism major and I was working
Starting point is 01:18:12 at this adult novelty company. So I was telling her my little spiel that I gave you. And so I was like just talking about, you know, sex very casually. And she was like, you're really good at talking about sex. You should work for us. And I was like, oh, thank you, but I think I'm gonna go find a sugar daddy. And so I tried my luck finding a sugar daddy. I found out it was not at all what I thought it was going to be. And then I was really in a bind and my mom actually,
Starting point is 01:18:36 and she's like, well, didn't that lady offer you a job? And I was like, yeah, she did. I was like, but- And did your mom know that you were doing the sugar baby thing? Yes, yeah, she did. And how it was, were your parents married? Like how did she feel about that?
Starting point is 01:18:48 They're divorced and they got divorced when I was young and she was always kind of of the mind that like I'm gonna do whatever I'm gonna do and if she were to tell me not to do that, it would only make me do it more. So she would rather me be honest with her about what I was doing than to be left out of the loop because I think that she's gonna tell me not to do that.
Starting point is 01:19:11 So I mean, I think there was like a certain element of permissiveness that kind of led me to do this. And the fact that she like wanted me to be open about sex and like wanted me to like be on birth control. And those are the lies that I think parents were told at the time as well, that you want your children to talk about sex. You want your children to be honest with you about these things. But then there's like a double edge sword to it because I was so easily talking about sex and I was,
Starting point is 01:19:42 and then it was kind of like that that turned me into that person a little bit. I mean, working at the novelty place obviously didn't help. But yeah, I ended up meeting the founder and the marketing manager that day. And she offered me a job, but I was going to go try my luck as a sugar baby. And then when I was destitute at the bottom of my bank account and hadn't picked my classes, had quit my job.
Starting point is 01:20:05 And I thought that even without my degree, like I didn't have, I hadn't walked yet. I had like one semester of classes left. I was going to do all my electives the last semester and just have kind of like a fun semester. But I never picked my classes because I thought I was going on a trip around the world. So I never got my degree. Like still to this day, I don't have a degree. I did do all my core classes though.
Starting point is 01:20:24 So I called her and I was like, Hey, are you still looking for people? And so she ended up hiring me as a PR coordinator making $35,000 a year, which was more money than I'd ever seen. And I was like, Oh shoot, I actually got my offer letter on the day I was walking. So at UNLV, they let you apply for graduation before you've actually finished your credits. So I was like, oh, perfect. I can walk for graduation. Everyone will think I graduated. I'll get a picture of me in the cap and gown, and then I'll just start my job.
Starting point is 01:20:52 And like, trella. And so I did. So I was 22 when I started the job. I just turned 22. It was after that birthday. Working for the Seeking arrangement. Working for the company, yeah. And I had no idea about corporate life. I had been
Starting point is 01:21:06 working for like a family run warehouse adult novelty company. So like I didn't know anything about like how corporate America really worked. And I didn't have any experience in PR. I didn't even know what PR really was. And I mean, if you if you don't know what PR is, I know it's kind of tossed around a lot. So basically, PR reps are liaisons between companies and media. So you're as a PR representative, you're trying to get different media news outlets, podcasts, whoever it is, to cover your brand, essentially. And so what years did you work there? The very end of 2013, I actually started on December 30th, 2013. And then I ended up getting laid off along with like 12 other people at the beginning of 2019, like January 2nd, 2019. So it was five years, but on paper, it's the years are
Starting point is 01:21:59 a little bit different. So were you there when Rachel was... No. Okay. So I was the spokesperson internally for the company. And then after we all got let go at the beginning, very beginning of 2019, I believe her contract began in 2020 or 2021. And she was an external spokesperson who was hired for the company to kind of do the same thing that I had been doing, but not as like an internal like PR employee. It was more just like as a talking head kind of thing. And I mean, their relationship went very sour. And I believe it's because after the Matt Gaetz scandal
Starting point is 01:22:34 broke, their PR strategy changed and they no longer wanted to use her. And what is the Matt Gaetz scandal? So Matt Gaetz is a Republican congressman from Florida, or he was a Republican congressman. I think he stepped down. I don't really know what his deal is. But if you've heard about him in the news recently,
Starting point is 01:22:53 Trump appointed him to be the attorney general. And people didn't like that. So he stepped down as attorney general, and Trump appointed Pam Bondi, who ironically was lobbying for anti-sex trafficking, which is very interesting. Anyway, so what happened in 2021 is news of this scandal broke where this man named Joel Greenberg, who was like a tax collector in Florida, he was found to have been sex trafficking minors using seeking, using seeking arrangement, using the website.
Starting point is 01:23:27 And then allegedly Matt Gaetz had sex with one of these minors. And I mean, to be clear, like, I don't know what happened with Matt Gaetz. I don't know Matt Gaetz, never met him, don't know him. So what I can tell you about that is there was an indictment against him for a long time. They were building up this indictment, but it ended up getting dropped and people were kind of wondering why this indictment got dropped. And I mean, I think I know why it was dropped. So in 2022, I was contacted by an attorney who was representing the minor who had been trafficked on the website by Joel Greenberg.
Starting point is 01:24:12 And Joel Greenberg is currently serving an 11-year sentence for like tax evasion and sex trafficking. So I'm pretty sure that he really was on the site and he really was doing this. But the attorney that contacted me in 2022 told me that he was suing Matt Gates and suing Seeking Arrangement on the girls behalf. So he had some questions for me about the mechanics of the website and just how things work. So I basically gave him the T because at the time I was also involved with other journalists. In 2021, when the scandal initially broke, the New York Times reached out to me,
Starting point is 01:24:47 and so did ABC 2020. They were both pursuing stories, and I gave them everything I had. They were very clear that they were gonna do this story, exposing the website, showing that, you know, it really is very easy for underage girls to get sex trafficked on this website. And those stories
Starting point is 01:25:06 never came out. After you did the entire interview. I did. I probably talked to the New York Times journalists for like seven hours, ABC 20, respectively. They were like separately working on the same story around the same time. ABC flew me out to New York, had a day of production buzzing around me at the beginning of 2022. They were going to do a sizzle reel for like a concept about the sugar world and like what it really is. And those stories never came out. And when you reached out and was like, hey, just check it in. When is this going to air? What response would you get? Oh, we're working on it. We're working on it. But now they don't talk to me anymore. They don't even respond to me. So if you wrote them today, they would just not write
Starting point is 01:25:43 back. Well, the last time I talked to the 2020 guy, he was like, Oh, I'm going to call you. And then he never did. So okay, whatever. But oh, back to the Matt Gaetz thing. So then at the time, I was corresponding with that journalist. And he told me that the reason the indictment was dropped was because the girl who was a minor at the time believes that the relationship was consensual between her and Gates. So she's not willing to testify. And so therefore, it's dropped.
Starting point is 01:26:14 And I think what kind of happens in these situations is when you hear the term sex trafficking thrown around, you think that, oh, they're being forced. They're being put in cages and immigrants, children being sold. I'm not saying that doesn't happen because I'm certain it does. But a lot of times sex trafficking is more nuanced. So what it really is is when one person, usually a man, someone like Joel Greenberg, procures women off of the website. So he reached out to them, says, hey, establishes
Starting point is 01:26:47 a relationship with whatever. And then he transports that woman to somewhere else to then have her paid for sex. And a lot of times the participants are willing because they're being paid for sex. So sex trafficking isn't always someone being lured and coerced and forced into sex. Right, like in the back of a van driving over state lines and blindfold and thrown into a dirty hotel room. And I'm sure that all does happen. That all does happen. But yeah, there's different levels of situations.
Starting point is 01:27:21 The majority of the time, the trafficker is someone you know. Sometimes it's a family member. And a lot of times the people who are willing participants, the young girls who are willing participants who are willing to be paid for sex, they're the ones who are then chosen to be then trafficked. And it's kind of like incremental, right? Like it escalates from there. And then it's unspoken, like, well, I did this for you. So you
Starting point is 01:27:45 do this for me. And the people who are complacent are the ones who then get more money, get more trips, get more this, get more that. So it puts you in a very bad situation if you're one of these people who's being trafficked, because now you've done something illegal. So you're in a position where you think that you're going to get arrested, or you're in a position where you think that you're gonna get arrested or you're gonna get solicitation charges. If you don't, drop the case or do whatever. So it's like they have you in this bind
Starting point is 01:28:17 when you're participating in sex work that you are ashamed, you don't wanna share it with anyone, but also you're scared because they threaten you with lawsuits and they tell you, if you don't do what I tell you to do, then we're going to file solicitation charges against you. And I don't know if any of that happened with this girl or anyone, but I just know that that's the situation that they get put in because anecdotally I've heard it many times. Well, this was fascinating.
Starting point is 01:28:43 You explain it so well. The writing is great. Get this book. What a juicy read over the holidays. Can you tell everybody where they can find it? Tell everybody where they can find it. You can find it where books are sold. It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can get the audiobook pretty soon. I think it's coming out in a couple days. So hopefully by the time the podcast comes out. Did you do it? I did.
Starting point is 01:29:07 Okay, great. I recorded it myself. I read it myself. And it was very emotional reading it. Oh, good. But yeah, it's a quick read. I wrote a book kind of for people who don't really like to read very much.
Starting point is 01:29:19 So it's like kind of gonna hook you in and hopefully teach you some lessons along the way. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge by Brooke Yurick. And thank you for your complete and total honesty. I know I ask a lot of like straightforward kind of weird questions because it's like what I'm, what the audience is thinking too, since I have never experienced it. That's why I was always sort of fascinated with the rise of this type of thing. And so it's really interesting to see someone your age. How old are you now? I'm 33.
Starting point is 01:29:54 Yeah. See someone your age 33 that went from the meeting the guy online at 15 to find yourself in Vegas with this thing that seems so cool and very transactional and let's just be honest in this relationship with these guys to the real truth of it. Now your perspective as a young, educated woman, you're really smart, and I'm really glad that you shared it. And I'm also glad that people know that these stories get reported on by the biggest news media in the world, and then they get squashed and silenced and thrown away. And you go, oh, I wonder why. Well, this person at the company that you're talking about is associated with this person and this person and this person, story's not being run. So that's why I like what I do, though it's not,
Starting point is 01:30:51 I have had my share of difficulty with people trying to shut me down too for the last almost 10 years. And I'm glad I haven't and I'm glad that I get to meet people like you that, you know, so smart and strong and really, really great interviews. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the candid questions too. I'm sure like lots of people have questions, so reach out to me. I'm definitely willing to answer them. And where can they find you on Instagram?
Starting point is 01:31:17 At Brooke Yurick. I'm just starting out. My following is small because I was waiting to come forward on Instagram until the book was out because I was scared like something might happen. I might get silenced. So yeah, please give me a follow, DM me if you have questions. And I'm willing to tell you literally whatever you want to know because I think this is a really important topic. And a lot of the book is kind of revealed on Instagram. Like I created a visual companion to the books. You don't necessarily need to read the book to understand what's going on just because I think it's really important to tell people what the heck is going on. But we want you to buy
Starting point is 01:31:50 the book. But also buy the book. All right, thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Aura, the most complete online safety toolkit. 2024 has seen a massive surge in high profile data breaches, raising serious concerns about the security of your personal information. Dell's breach exposed 3.9 million customer records, and Ticketmaster also faced a massive breach, compromising over 560 million records. And most alarming of all, this past summer, national public data reported a breach potentially affecting every single American. 2.9 billion records used for background checks were stolen
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