Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - The Bachelor’s Nightmare: Dave Neal Exposes Clayton Echard’s Fake Twin Pregnancy Scandal!

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

I am so excited to welcome back the incredible Dave Neal to the studio today, and trust me, you are not ready for this updates on this mind-blowing saga! We are diving deep into how Dave completely cracked open the absolutely insane case of former Bachelor Clayton Echard and the fake pregnancy scandal that flipped his life upside down. After his stint on the show, Clayton was just trying to pursue real estate when a one-night liaison with a female client turned into a living nightmare of alleged twin pregnancies, fabricated medical scans, and even fake cancer claims. Dave is here to share the wild, behind-the-scenes details of how his relentless investigation exposed the truth, changed Clayton’s life forever, and proved that truth is truly stranger than fiction. -Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to Quince.com/juicy for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. -Right now, when you buy any Nutrafol Men hair growth supplement subscription, you get two free gifts — a full-size 2-in-1 shampoo and conditioner plus a hair serum, a $93 value — plus 20% off a subscription. Take advantage of this great deal at Nutrafol.com. -Go to RO.CO/JUICYSCOOP to see if you qualify. - Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at SHOPIFY.COM/juicy Subscribe to my new show Juicy Crimes!: https://bit.ly/juicycrimes Stand Up Tickets and info: ⁠⁠https://heathermcdonald.net/ Subscribe to Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald and get extra juice on Patreon: https://bit.ly/JuicyScoopPod https://www.patreon.com/cw/juicyscoop Watch the Juicy Scoop On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JuicyScoop Shop Juicy Scoop Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://juicyscoopshop.com/?srsltid=AfmBOopTZFUvAeokrJJ6dQ5wuAW1T3nssO6pHk47u7KymJUBtBgKCvfX Follow Me on Social Media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heathermcdonald/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeatherMcDonaldOfficial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Juice Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. You guys have been asking me to revisit a subject that we talked about before. That's the subject of the Bachelor Clayton. and the horrible paternity nightmare that he went through. And I was like, I have discussed it with my, again, guest who's returning, Dave Neal, who has a great YouTube following and you're very thorough, very opinionated. Also a father of a two-year-old married, right?

Yeah, still. And you've reached out to me about something we were talking about before. and I was like, oh, I love this. And now this story of Clayton has its own long-form podcast, which I listened to the whole thing. I was familiar with it. And I'm so excited to have you here because you really kind of helped crack this open, this whole case.

Yeah, 200 videos. And then they whittle that down into like 10 episodes to tell the chronological story. Story's still going on. But I went on your show just over a year. year ago, two weeks after going on your show to talk about it, um, is when Laura got charged with seven felonies. So that was like, everyone was shocked because at that point, no one thought she was going to get any accountability. I just want to just dumb down what this is and

then we can really get into it because a lot of people have no idea what this story is about. Clayton was on the bachelor. How many years ago now? Like eight? Not even. I mean, like just three or four. Yeah. From now? Yeah. He's like post-COVID. Yeah. He was like he was like, he was Oh, he was? Yeah, he kind of got plucked out of obscurity because he wasn't one of the top folks on that season. And usually it's like- He just didn't have COVID. They were like, come.

Yeah, they're like, we'll take you fresh body here. And they brought him in and, you know, they choose bachelors based on like the psychological thoughts of like, who can they not manipulate, but, you know, get to play the part. Who's really going to like want to fall in love and be in love and all that kind of stuff? And so that was really interesting to kind of hear his side of, like, like just being chosen, deciding to do it. And he had like a disastrous ending in that he ended up with nobody, right? Yeah, he did what everyone does, which is they all bang around in the fantasy suites. But he made the mistake of telling each woman in front of each other that it was intimate with the other.

That's right. He told them all he loved them. What's so worse is like, people are almost more offended when you say, I love you to multiple women than banging multiple women. But like these are the rules of The Bachelor, you know, like there's these are the rules. You have to wait. You can't bang someone before the, you know, the yurt or whatever special thing they set you up in. You know, it's like very, if you go against the rules, they get very upset. I've been watching The Bachelor from the very beginning and covered it a lot.

And I'd always make fun of how they would say the same thing. Being vulnerable. You really challenge me. You really, um, on this journey. And I was like, these same three words. like, what is this? Until I did an episode of The Bachelorette. And it was during COVID. And we were supposed to go to some beautiful place in Canada. But then Canada got COVID. I don't know. We were in like New Mexico and it was just dry. And I had to be like in this room for like five days by

myself. But I had worked throughout COVID. So I kind of liked it. Like I didn't mind just like being in this hotel room. And so then when we'd film the scene where I'm like kind of hang out helping to like facilitate a date and these guys had to like write us like. for her or something. It was, I saw the producer say, mention the journey, mention the, you know, vulnerable.

And I'm like, how is it in like 28 episodes or series, how is it that someone hasn't been like, oh, we need to change up this? Can we just get? And that's the issue with the show is they just kept playing it safe. And then, like, Love Island comes out with like thong bikinis. And everyone's like, oh, that show's more fun.

Like, it's just so unrealistic. and it was like ABC. It was like they're very safe with like, they don't say whether or not they had sex. They just like cut to a scene of the sprinklers going off. Right. And it's like terrestrial radio. It's like people were, they were just done with that.

Totally true. But still, there still is a handful of people that made it and got married and had kids. So you're like, hey, it could happen to me. And then of course, you know, it comes to a place of, well, this is the best way to get into TV, influencing, podcasting. Remember how many Bachelor people had podcasts?

Like, there were like 35 on Eyeheart at one point. There was this golden era where, like, just by going on the show, you cracked a million views. And there's people that have, like, clothing. A million followers. And there's people with, like, fashion lines and all of that. And it kind of just dried up. People stopped hitting follow. It's still kind of, but like, so Clayton was one of those seasons where he didn't get that, like, social contract, where you go on the show, we rip your heart out, everyone hates you.

But then you get a following and you live your dream. I mean, like, he didn't, he got only the worst of it. Right. And so it goes back and he's in, like, the Scottsdale area and doing the only other thing you can do, which is get your real estate license. Yeah. Yeah. Being that I'm, which is the bottle service.

And being that I've met an actor, stand up, and a realtor and a podcaster, I can relate to all of it. And a fitness coach, like a lifestyle coach or fitness. Right. Because you have a good body and you have to work out. and they showed you lathering up your abs on the show. And that's where he is all excited to get this client. And as someone that did real estate, a long time ago, when I was in my 20s, I worked with my parents.

And they, like, were so excited that I got my license. And I had a real headshot because I was also trying to be an actor. so I look pretty cute. And like at that time, there were very few male realtors. It was all like old lady realtors. So I really like stood out. And I would get people calling for me to show them houses. Yeah, you're like dating them.

You're showing you're in the car together going, you know, talking about personal. I remember I took out this cop that I was like, this is weird. Like I got to, this guy is not interested in buying anything. And it kind of creeped me out. So it's kind of interesting to hear. that essentially that happened to him. He was the new realtor. Of course, he had a big following

because he was the bachelor. Just got his license like two weeks earlier. Yeah, and he gets this girl who does the fake schmiel, you know, which is why also we would get all the rules so that we don't get raped and murdered because we're small for people than men. So it would always be what we learned was like, you don't take them in your car.

but if you're going to meet them at a house or whatever, you make sure that they already have a pre-qualification letter that they actually have the money. Don't waste my time. They meet you at the office. The reception makes a copy of their license, all this stuff, so they're not going to kill you. Well, he's a big, strong guy,

and he sees this young girl, and she writes him like, oh, I'm interested in, you know, investment properties. She sends them this like screen grab of a $450,000, you know, checking account. So she's like, he thinks like... Oh, so she was legitimizing herself. Yeah, I don't think the money was real because now she says she's never made a dollar in her life because, fast forward, she's filed for bankruptcy. But at the time, he's like, she's got money.

I'm going to make a commission. She talked about future properties. He's like, this is it. You know, he's blinded by like, oh, this is great. I mean, this really is so every girl's story of being, like, sexually harassed. or thinking that they got the job because they were smart and then the guy really wants to screw them. So it is quite the reversal of, you know,

of a story that it happens to this guy. And they're like chatting and it starts to get flirty. And she's an equestrian. And so she sends this photo of herself, like, turning around. And I guess she had a good butt. At least in the photo. I mean, everything's Photoshop so we don't know. But like, I mean, like literally everything.

She's like a, she's like, you know, been investigated mainly for her Photoshop skills because she's like, because she's lied in Doroth and all these things. But that, yeah, so she sends, she sends good old butt shot as you do in today's world. And he's like, let's get on over here. And they, and then he, he, he gets two blow jobs. That's it. And that is where it gets so crazy because then, you know, he shows a property, but he does say, she wants to write an offer and he does say like because she's so insistent on and I want to write an offer and last night was so great let's do it again and then he's kind of like I don't really think we should do this also I'm going to guess maybe he didn't know how to write an offer if he was that new so then that's just my interpretation so then he was like I'd like to just like push you off to an associate you could still get a portion whatever and and that's when she's like no no no like she it's crazy because what we really, the juiciest part of the story, which we will go through it all,

because I have so many questions, is that she's done this kind of crazy lie manipulation, pregnancy stories that aren't where she's not pregnant to three other guys? Well, at the, at least, there's a guy Matt. So there's at least four, but then there's non-sexual coercion of, of like a real, of a contractor. There's people in her apartment complex from pre. Like we have this whole like season two, three, four. But it's leverage. She uses leverage. She'll get him to do something that might be not ethical.

And then she'll go to the real estate board and try to get his real estate license removed. So that's what she did. She did that to him. She did that to a contractor in the past to leverage like $100,000 squeeze it out of this guy. And it's just leverage. And she grew up being a child of a radio star in San Francisco. her dad was Ron Owens who was like this big shot making over you know 1.4 million dollars a year at his heyday interviewing Obama when he was a presidential candidate so like this guy like walked on water in that area and everything was just leveraged so she was the kid who was like do you know who my parents are and and she's used that to and because the timeline with Clayton is he he like he like rejected her morning after blow jobs and he's like look we you know we should we shouldn't have done that and he said she just turned so So she had that, like, that rejection sort of like triggering where it was all of a sudden, like, I will get you.

And then that's when the coercion came in, like, like, you have to respond to me because you're my agent. You have to do this. You have to talk to me. And Clayton was like, all right, I'll put it the offer in. And he never did it. He tried to, like, pass her on to someone else. And that's when she got him for this violation. But she said, like, you had a fiduciary relationship to me.

And you have to have written the offer. And, like, as someone who grew up in real estate and a realtor and then sold my. own house as I'm not a licensed realtor anymore. But I was like, it really doesn't work that way as a buyer's agent. Like the real, the real only contract there is is when you list a house, you know, and are they obligated to you for this amount of time? And people would always try to get a contract as a buyer. And that really never worked because that you're basically telling someone you have to buy through me. And what if they walked into a house tomorrow, which makes it why most people want to be listing agents versus buying agents.

So I thought right away when I heard that, I was like, I don't think that's right. But it's like she's one of those people, the most dangerous kind, is that she's not a lawyer, but she's just smart enough to know enough to fuck you up. Fuck you up until it's public. And then experts are like, no. Like nurses and doctors, once they start looking at her medical stuff, they're like, uh-uh, comma's off, that's no time code. And they, but like, yeah, to the person who just thinks...

It's terrifying. And that's how scams work. It happens in the dark. It's mold, right? Right. But so that, so her trying to, like, leverage this realtor, sort of, like, hold that over his head. That'll come up a year later. I don't think it made it into the documentary, but she essentially extorted him off of that.

So the podcast is becoming a documentary. I don't, there's probably no, like, contracts yet, but that's the goal is that this will become, like, the Netflix or HBO version of what was made. I mean, I definitely want to see it also as a scripted version. Sure. And it's not even done. I'm a witness for the state of Arizona for the trial. And the trial will happen. So, so. Let's keep walking people through it. Because someone's not that familiar, which I actually don't think in the pop culture world,

it's not as big of a story as someone think because it is so long and convoluted that it's like, what? It's a tough elevator pitch. And that's why when you said you'd have me on a year ago, I like flew out. You're the only podcast. That was the only time I've spent a night away from my child. And I'm like, but it was important for my family because she's starting to sue me for over $100 million. So it was important for me to get this attention out there to get the attention of not just pop culture, but that gets the attention of the county prosecutors.

Because they let they let perjury happen all the time. No one gets charged for it. You know, and with cases where women get scammed by men too. there it's very the reason there's so many shows about women being scammed love scammed or love bombed or or that type of thing or the guy moves in and takes their money and find that they're dating five other people it's one of those things where it's not murder it's not this so it's like very hard for someone to then try to prosecute this case and then when I think it's even worse when you're a big strong guy who is Mr. All-American and is seen as wealthy, though he's not. And she's a girl. Like, you just look like, you know. She's a damsel, and she sells it.

And all the cops, they, she got cops all the way from Broward County, Florida to L.A. County. She got cops to feel bad for her and help her, you know, target these men. So Clayton was the third guy in a row she got restraining orders against. I would have been the fourth. A judge slapped that down because I was just, obviously, operating as a journalist. Had I ever met Laura, she'd probably have a restraining order on me right now because the judges err on the side of caution. If they... And she was trying to say, I need a restraining her against you, Dave Neal, because you are reporting on a story that is already out in the news.

Yes, she wanted... And there's already been court filings, which then would give you a right to discuss it. She tried to play both sides. She leaked this story. She sent it to everyone. Page six, the son, everyone. And the original story, because we haven't even told it the original story. that she said was. So then he's like trying to be nice, try to give her to another broker and she won't have it. She keeps writing.

Then she hits him with I'm pregnant. Five days later. Like short time later. I'm pregnant. And now he's like, how the hell did you get pregnant when I never even had sex with you? We can't even say the condoms lift off

or she poked it with a safety pin. I never had vaginal sex. with you and or pulled out or anything. Turkey basting became the trending term because people were like did she scoop in this? So they thought the only way

he thought it could be possible or other people is did she swallow run to the bathroom spit in her hand and then try to scoge that up there which you know I remember there'd always be stories where

you know like guys would have to dispose like if they were, you know, a valuable guy that doesn't want to get, you know, some NBA mama, whatever,

they would take out their condom and like put hot sauce in it. Or throw it away. Or women would take a condom and take a safety pin and poke it through the package. So then you're opening a brand new package.

So then it was like always make sure you bring your own condoms. It's like at a certain point. Yeah, what a hot ones episode. That would be. Yeah. What's Scoville level? as pregnancy. And there's even, we were looking up stories like there was one time where someone did

swallow and got pregnant. And it's like, what? In the fallopian jog, I wouldn't think so. And they even say the spitting that the saliva could kill it, but we're like, this is, he's a mighty man. So, you know, who knows? And but, but the reason why. I mean, when I was in Catholic school, they said to scare us that if there was any kind of ejaculation even near the area, one could swim on up there. Growing up Catholic, I thought I had AIDS from like making out too hard. Okay, like I was tormented. I went to the doctor and the doctor's like, what's wrong with you? I was like, I don't know.

I'm sorry. But that's, yeah, you don't know. We didn't have Google. You just knew what you knew. Start your alienware journey with the streamlined Alienware 15. We design this machine to refine the essentials. Creating a more focused gaming laptop for players who demand quality. without the clutter. We engineered a brilliant 15.3-inch 165-hirts display seamlessly into a portable 15-inch body.

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Each week on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a way to turn them into their greatest strengths. Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm hitting to the Emmys. And I have police complaints filed against me. When your free will is about to be taken from you, what would you do if it was given back? Where did that need come from where you thought that you had to succeed in order to feel loved? He said, I have a work dad. I need a home dad.

What happens next? When I came in he started crying. Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not those hard moments that they go through. It's about what happens next. I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.

Listen, Darra, I'm not going to pull punches. You can use your voice even if it shakes. The stories are different, but the impact is the same. Only one question matters. What happens next? So at any point... We have a video of Laura. I've literally seen it where she shows a video of her peeing under the stick.

You know, she doesn't pan down, but she pees onto the stick and test positive. He was there. He used his independent stick because I've heard some sodas. and certain things can trip it, but it's HCG, right? That's the, is that what it's called? Pormone. Yeah, I think H, and I might have the wrong,

I might be blanking on the, the, um. It was a, I think it was a kind of, a medication that you could get that then would reflect possibly a false pregnancy test. Yeah, like, when my wife got pregnant, and you could order it. We were like, is you are even pregnant or are the medications you're on tripping it because that could happen.

And with Laura, it was a very faint test. It was almost like if you have COVID, like you're a few days after and it's a faint test like it shows up on different levels based on how strong it is so it wasn't like it's an indicator of pregnancy she found this type of medication that you could get and you could order it yourself or there was some evidence that she had ordered it right right like a year later she gets raided by the cops swat raider at 6 a.m there's like a dozen they're all body cam they did it all and they found evidence that she purchased like black market style, this, I think it's like the diet medication, because we were like, you could drive to

Tijuana and get this stuff over the counter. You could go to a vet clinic and possibly get this fertility drug for animals. We didn't put anything past her. In fact, we, because she was starting to share photos of a miscarriage she claimed to have, and we thought it was some sort of animal product because it was like a photoshopped, who knows what. So the initial story that she decides to give to the son, the tabloid, is I was dating Clayton the Bachelor and I'm currently pregnant with twins and he is completely ignoring me, blowing me off. Yeah, and she was using that to threaten him, but she didn't want to be public. She was an anonymous woman. That lasted like all but an hour. I mean, you know, through Bravo. It's like you cover anything celebrity. People will,

they'll go to the courthouse in every county across America and find the information. So somebody found her. They were like a podcast. who did a TED talk and they were able to find her like that, which led Greg Gillespie, her other victim's current girl, her his wife, to be like, this is the chick who did it to you. And so then Greg. That was like the juiciest part. I was like, oh my God, that she's done this.

Greg got the, he got the, quite possibly the worst, because he knew she was fucking with him immediately and he played it really hard. and deservingly so. And she did a thing where she was like, you know, she was like, if you keep dating me, I will get an abortion. That was her plan. That was her leverage. If you date me, I'll get an abortion.

And the guy was like... Did she do that to Clayton, too, or just to him? With Clayton, she did it as well. So she tried to leverage... This is the craziest part. So she keeps writing them these long-winded emails, Derreet style. No if I said to Rit would ever lie about this,

but a very long winded. And it was like, you know, I understand, you know, your trepidation or something. It would be like, but I really think there's something here. And we had such a great time together. And I haven't been with anybody else. If you get with me now, you'll see how tiny am down there. If you date me for one week with intention, she said with intention.

It said one week's, which is funny because. Which is like such a Christian word to say, but it was. with intention. Then I will get the abortion and then we'll continue to try. And then if we don't, then if we break up, then I will go away and I also aborted the baby. So it's like, so you want to have a future with this person, but the negotiating skill is I will only abort the baby if you are my boyfriend. If you aren't my boyfriend, then I'm going to have this baby and you're going to have to deal with me for the rest of your life. Like, it is the craziest thing.

I could not get over that part. Yeah, and the guy Greg before, you know, obviously Greg didn't know about Mike, the guy before that. None of this was all tied together. So Greg was flying solo. So let's go to Greg. Okay, so let's put that. So that's what at first Clayton was dealing with.

But now since we're trying about other people, I want to talk about this guy, Greg, who was her boyfriend. just for like a week. I mean, it was like, you know. No, this is Greg and then his wife's Danielle, right? That's Mike. Oh, so Mike.

So now this goes back to about a decade ago. Okay, tell me about Greg. So Greg happened in like 20, I think just before COVID, in that range. 16, 17, yeah. Okay, do you want to go back to Mike? Mike was the one. Which one was, which goes back the furthest that you meant? Mike gets featured more and he gets a lot of attention.

But no, let's just for the people listening that didn't listen to the podcast that are just listening to this. who is the furthest person back that she did something similar to? On the on like the public record, it's Mike. It goes back further, but that's people that don't want to talk. But Mike in 2016 was dating her and like wasn't wanting to have things be serious, casual. And and then that's when, you know, she was, you know, talking about her father who's been dying, still, he's still dying. And she was kind of like using whatever she could. she created this contract that her and Mike were going to do a podcast together.

Oh, the podcast story is the best. And it was like a six-figure deal. And it was... And back then, I mean, no way. No way. And we've seen the emails and like she, somebody faked her dad's agent's name because there's no way that he's never come forward. They don't want anything to do with it.

They go to this, they go to him. And she's like, even though we aren't dating anymore, we have. an opportunity because my dad is like whatever the Howard Stern of San Francisco we got offered to do a podcast which back then like podcasts weren't even happening well I think technically it was a radio show but it would have been one of those shows where you like pay for the time to be on air but Mike but he might didn't know that but that's what it was it was like it would have been like a if they ever did release any of it it would have been like a tele you know whatever just an ad really and so it was dating a dating talk show between

the two of them. And because she was also like in that world with her mother. And so he's like, I never thought I would be a radio host. I don't even think I have like a great talking voice, whatever. But she's like, oh, we're going to make whatever. Like it was like 200,000 a year or something ridiculous amount. And that story is so insane. And then she goes, now the radio station wants to take You and I to Iceland for New Year's Eve to do a promo for it. Yeah. And however they're falling out happens, he's like, I don't want to date anymore or whatever. So he gets on the flight and she's like, yeah, yeah, you go.

You do the ticket. Fine, whatever. I won't go. He gets on the flight and sees that she's on the flight. And she gets hysterical because she's kind of a wild person, whatever she's got wrong with her. And she's going off on him to the point where he, like, goes to the bathroom. and locks himself in the bathroom on this cross, you know, on this long flight, until the flight attendant's like, dude, you got to get out of the bathroom.

And then he had to go back and sit with her. And apparently some lady watched it all happen and think she's the damsel. And, you know, like, you know, I don't know, becomes the centerpiece of this TEDx talk that she gives. That's still on air. So then, Laura, just to go back, because Laura then they get to Iceland. Was there any actual radio promo work to be done that you're aware of? I don't know if they recorded anything or they were just supposed to go on the experience

because they ended up doing it again in like Dubai or some other, you know, they ended up doing it one more time. And he was just trying to get, he was like, he's trying to get his paycheck. But he never got a paycheck. I think she ended up paying him, like, I think she ended up paying him. And it just probably wasn't suspicious to him. But like he got something. And then that was kind of the end of it.

But yeah, he was like, he was like, yeah, it was garbage on air. And like, you know how it is. It'd be like, like, you do comedy. You do the trenches for years to build your opportunities up. No one gets gifted something like that. But he doesn't know that. He's just like, oh, wow, great. You just, you get blinded by opportunity.

But at least she did pay for those trips. Something was paid for, but it probably wasn't the full amount. I thought it was so interesting about the parents, that the parents were like, she's a really great girl. You should give her another chance. I'm like, what dad? Like anytime I broke up with a boyfriend My sister broke up with her.

My dad would be like, you know, screw that asshole. You're Miss America. Like you would never be like... Man, that dad tried everything. But it's obviously he's dealing with a type of person that whatever their fit weird family dynamic, he was like, please, just be my daughter's girlfriend for a little longer.

And he's just like, look, yeah, she has a tendency to fake pregnancies. I mean, this was an assigned affidavit by someone on, by one of Mike's family that like that they were in the room when the dad said yeah she she has a tendency to fake pregnancy so we find all of this out now it's not on you know they don't have an audio clip of it but it is a sworn affidavit from someone who has like a high up job and like they're not they have no no credibility issues and the dad's like just say what she needs to say you know help her out she's she's like fake she's saying she's going to kill herself which by the way she's used against me and everyone else to have her story silenced and everyone's obviously

not wanting someone to hurt themselves, but at the same time, she's hurt so many people. So he just like deals with her as long as he can until, until like she's done with him. She gets a restraining order on him, which she had for like, you know, until recently. And in getting those restraining orders, you know, obviously for people that don't really understand, you don't want someone to succeed in getting one when you're innocent because then that's on your record. It looks bad. It looks bad when you apply for a job if you're trying to get.

And I had the same idea that Mike had where when she was trying to get one on me, I told my lawyer like, dude, I don't even care. Because I don't want to see her. And he's like, no, no, no, no. Trust me. You'll have issues getting through security at the airports. You'll never get a job. Like so Mike was literally. I mean, even if you were trying to join a country club or a Soho house or something or even a homeowners or something, it comes up.

Even if you were trying to do a gig at like the Tempe improv, she's going to email them and say, why are you letting an in an, an, known X, Y, and Z to be, you know, and so she used that on Mike. She used it on Clayton. She's emailed and tried to use it on Greg. And so it's leverage. So in choosing and trying to get it, let me just ask with the mic part because, you know, there's a lot of information there. But like, she, it was just her word against his, that there was some physical threat that happened or something. Yeah.

And when it's someone that you have been intimate with, it's almost a slam dunk that it'll be, it'll be granted. Pretty much. I mean, he, like, he did what he could. And it was, yeah, it was heard word versus him. She accused him of nearly trying to kill her and all in DV and all these things. And it's like, you want it. You don't, you don't, in most cases, people don't lie. But when they do, I mean, it's just insane. So. And then you kind of, then she sort of doubles down on this narrative in that she gets to do a TED Talk, which these are the TED Talk X things, which is not the actual TED Talk. It is so crazy. I don't like to use the term. cringe-worthy. It's so overuse. It is, you won't, I challenge your audience to get through the five minutes of it. It is brutal. She's reading off cue cards. I mean, she's just not good on camera in any way whatsoever. But you see the beginning of the ecosystem of lab growing victimhood. Because that TED Talk, she got a lot of praise for, oh, you're a survivor. Everyone's championing that. And then with Clayton, so she would use that on her self-help podcast to talk about her experiences and you know i'm sure i'm sure she welcomed that feeling of being like a

survivor um and it's like you know everyone's got i mean you know it's so offensive to to people who's had to deal with any dv or anything you know ever it's just so offensive it's offensive to anyone who's tried to get pregnant or to anyone who's had miscarriages because she used it all against people so so with um you know it's just like but she also she like open miced and work work shopped her scam with each guy. So she got better and better. What started with like just an ultrasound photo became video. But it wasn't like video that was easily tracked because she edited the video. But then it was still tracked just not through like Google. You like you had to like go on YouTube and like scroll till you found the videos. But like what is her kink? So she gets a guy

to kind of like her, have some intimacy with her. And when they don't want to be her boyfriend, then she says, well, I'm pregnant. But I'll get rid of this pregnancy if you agree to be my boyfriend. Then when they still don't want to be her boyfriend, then to then, instead of going away, then to punish them more, then she gets this restraining order so that she's always this person walking around going, I have this crazy ex-boyfriend. I just don't, I just don't have a good picker. I haven't heard a good explanation from any psychologist other than I think she wants to punish

because it's then not that she's a bad person, it's they are. You don't want me, I'm good, you're bad. And then I think it's the, so then she punishes him that way. But then also she has this narrative of that she's actually had all these ex-boyfriends. When actually most of them would say we weren't a boyfriend and girlfriend. So it's like you want, it's like you want to convince yourself that these were real relationships. and then and then of course

the attention that you do get with the pregnancy and it's like the one it's the one thing that we of women can do that men cannot do you know it's special you know you can do it and you can fake it

and it's believable when my wife was at like full full term was amazing we felt like we were in a parade everyone was so nice to us because you're like we all love we all love like babies and pregnancies like we're all happy.

It's like you really do get this kind of attention. It's a lot of attention. I mean, that's why there's, you know, from the beginning of time, there's women who have lied that this child is mine and someone's like. People fake, women fake two things. I say women fake pregnancies in cancer. And we expose that she faked ovarian cancer. We have cold, hard facts that she not only faked ovarian cancer,

but she faked the medical letters from the actual doctors where she claimed to have cancer. Not only did she fake ovarian cancer, but the photos that she used in faking that cancer, she ended up using those same photos of her in the same medical outfit to claim that she was the victim of domestic violence. So she was so gun, you know,

just shooting from the hip that she didn't remember her own lies. It wasn't until we were able to access Mike's old laptop and hire the sort of like, you know, technically IT expert who literally, testifies at like trials, we hired him and raised money to like verify because we knew she was going to say that's not true. And we had like thousands of pages of documents of her faking that all. And so a lot of that she's never been charged with. So again, when I've covered people that have had huge fake cancer scams, um, which are just, you know, there's been several in documentaries

and they are fascinating. And the denominator are sadly it's women. Um, just like the majority of Munchausen's by proxy is almost like 95% women. Men don't really do that with their children. And, you know, it's all attention seeking. I don't know why women, in general, as the other gender, requires this kind of attention more than men. Women are smarter. Like, men, we, like, try to push our way through situations.

Like, you know, we're aggressive in that way. Not always, but you'll see, like, the physical violence is primarily men. You'll punch a wall when you're upset. Your team lost. I'm going to throw the clicker. Like, we just, like, that's it. Women are smart. And the ones that take advantage of the system,

they might see that who's going to question a cancer? Who's going to question a pregnancy? And this would have never happened if it wasn't publicly, you know, discussed in a way where other women called Laura out. I mean, I think just like any scam, there is a high that the person gets in having you, believe it at first. I mean, even if you're,

you know, a big thing with scammers is that they act like they can buy a house. Poor realtors. Or car salesman. You know, like go and act like you're rich or you're dating a woman and, you know, the woman will be like, and then

we looked at $3 million houses. Turns out he had no money at all and they lied about everything. But I'm like, the day of them going around, the joy that they think this girl is looking at like, oh my God, I just found Prince Charming or the realtor, them thinking the realtor's adding up the 60 grand,

you know, that she's going to get. And it's like there's something there. And so I think the first time she did it, just like any other addiction, when someone says they try heroin for the first time and it's like, oh, my God. It's that dopamine rush. I think there's something in that it's, you know,

it's worked before. And then she changes it a little bit for each person. Yeah, she tweaked it because she would start to get caught. I mean, this ovarian cancer she faked, she literally had the doctor write her a note. And again, it sounds so foolish in hindsight, where the doctor says, yes, Laura, we think that your boyfriend should help take care of you while you recover. It's amazing. It's brazen. It's amazing the emails from the love trapped long podcast that you're part of, which is this actor read them and read these letters. And it's like so clearly she wrote them herself, like, you know, barely

does a doctor even like scribble even talk to you again like you know and like that's full nice insurance like what doctor is like writing a long thing about like wow

and we're so sorry to hear that you're person to doctors lawyer and these aren't just these are like really stole their identity these are like these are verifiable people she stole a law firm and then of course

the black journalist she created to come after me that was like a complete fabrication what's that story that's Chase Jones she created this guy to cancel Clayton and we tried to subpoena him when she sued me and he doesn't exist.

But she filed those documents through LA County Superior Court, claiming to be Chase Jones. So she's like literally impersonate people through, like California could totally come after her for that. We revealed, we learned that she, that her cell phone number was behind the creation of the Chase Jones YouTube channel because like I'm a YouTuber, we were able to figure out through a two-factor authentication

that she fake that too, which was like the big kind of like fun mystery because it was more, it was less harmful because it was like, I've been on the winning side of this. But at the time, it was like, we needed to know all of this because she was going to and will still come after us. So with Clayton, she, so he passes up on that real estate deal.

And so right as this thing's about to go to trial, right, she sends him a letter saying, I'm going to sue you. And what's the initial trial of why they're going to trial? It's an evidentiary hearing. So because our audience raised money for Clayton, and by the way, this is why I had all. all this beef with Nick Vile because he didn't cover it when we needed the help. He covered it afterwards.

But we raised his 10 grand overnight to get him the lawyer that previously represented Greg Gillespie, one of the other victims, because the lawyer knew that as soon as Laura claimed a miscarriage that her family court thing goes away. So Laura was using- And then she could go on to somebody else and it all just goes away. Oh, and like the bachelor was a dead-be-dead. She was going to ride that pony forever. There would have been no evidence of it. So Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick, great guy.

So without the 10K, Clayton just didn't have the means to hire an attorney to fight this false. Yeah, like respectfully, I mean this with respect for him, is that he has all this pride that he wanted to do it himself. He's like a DIY. He got himself to be a pro football player. He's like really like done it himself. And we were like, Bubba, like you're doing great, but we were watching the trial play out, like these little hearings. and he was getting, they were objecting to things. Like he just didn't have that legal vocabulary to know what to do.

So Woodnick is like, you need to file for the punitive registry for fathers, which means if Laura claims that she's going to give the baby up for adoption, the babies we knew were fake, that he was claiming to be the father of these unborn, these fake babies. Basically, I'm calling you on your BS. Yeah, and it's just like, so he protect himself there. So at that point, it's like she'd have to go to some third world country and claim she just gave them up for adoption because in the first world,

it's like protected. So then what Nick was like, we're going to fight over the bill. Who's going to pay for this? Because that's the only way to keep the court case alive. Because she can dismiss her claims that, you know, whatever she was claiming in family court and then it just walks away. So that was what they were now fighting over. And because of that, they were able to depose each other and get her on record to, you know, more lies.

They got her to, like, really, they pinned her down with all these lies. And right before the trial, she was like, she wrote him a letter saying, I'm going to sue you for $1.7 million. To Clayton. Yeah, because of the lost money I would have made in that real estate deal. Now, of course, that would have meant that she paid 100% cash and all of these other things. It was an absolute extortion letter. She never got, I don't think she ever got charged for extortion, but that's what it was.

And they ripped it up, and then they took her to court, and then they won. And she owes him like a quarter million dollars. And now she's like, obviously not going to pay a cent, but. Her own lawyer has kind of gone down on a sinking ship with her on this one. So I want to talk a little bit about that. First, I want to say in the Reddit world, so then she claims to be a victim of you because she said by you reporting on all of this, she's gotten such horrible backlash. And people are discussing her on Reddit and saying these awful things and death threats.

Well, as we know, Reddit's all anonymous. and anybody can write anything and you could have 20,000 aliases. I bet she was bullying herself. Oh, yeah, sure. And loving to keep it going. Because I'm like, this is enjoyable. I don't think she wants it to go away.

Yeah, she was fighting with people online. And at the time, this was a couple years ago, but she was probably using like chat chippedita that just like streamline a lot of her fighting. She was pretty like tech savvy. She had a lot, she had a lot going on. and things that we couldn't, as like public investigators, the audience couldn't crack into her laptop.

But when she got raided, they were able to find out, like, real stuff. Like, she faked, we knew she faked pregnancy because there's a video of her dad rubbing her belly, but it was really her sister's belly. Now, we knew that because she cut the audio out and she cropped it. And that was a video that she, what, sent to one of the guys? To Clayton, like, I'm pregnant, here it is. And it was like a big old belly. Well, it was two, because it's supposed to be twins, right?

Yeah. But then also in the lie, then she says one, she lost one. Didn't she at one point say she lost one of the twins? With Greg, she took, so this is why it's, this is why it's tough for Greg because he hasn't really spoken in the documentary. And he was like aggressive with her, which he should have been, because he was onto it right away. He was like, I wore a condom, I pulled out.

She's not pregnant. So she's like, I'm going to, I'll, if you date me, I'll take the abortion pills. So he was like, okay. All right, sure. Let's go for it. And he was like, you know, he's like, you know, he's like, I'll play that game. So she like takes the pills. And then he's like, I'm done. Get out of here. And then she go and then like a few days later, well, the pills didn't work. Only one of the babies is dead.

And that's where like the, she gets the doctor's note where it was like, oh, actually you da-da-da-da. And we really hope that your pregnancy continues to grow. And it's like, and that's when we found out she stole these ultrasounds from a lady in Texas who did lose her baby to the vanishing baby. which is when one twin passes horrible stuff. So our audience was just like, our audience, we raised money for that surviving baby who's now probably like eight or nine years old to like go on a great trip.

Like we just felt bad that she was sucked into this. And this was just a woman that had a small blog following, right? Yeah, she was, her chapters like things called mend, mothers enduring neonatal death. Terrible to think that she put her story out there to help others. And then she stole that actual ultrasound. And then that was the ultrasound which when we investigated and zoomed into it on my desktop, we would have never seen this just on a normal, like everything was being shared mobily. But when you really looked into it, that's where we found the Fiverr logo.

What does Fiverr say? Fiverr is a company that you can hire someone to like do Photoshop or like anything. It's just like F-I-V-R-R or whatever, F-I-V-E-R-R. So she did that to Photoshop like her name. My guess is that she hired someone to try to alter the image so it wouldn't be Google, like, reverse searched. And my guess is she never paid for it. So they have a Fiverr logo as a watermark.

And so what she did, and again, this is all we have, I have no idea how it got there. But which is so funny that it turns out her not paying for the, like her being cheap and not paying for the thing is what made that logo be there. What we found was a reverse watermark. So like, it was basically like the inverse. logo and you just can't see it because it's, you know, ultrasounds like black and white and it's, but when you zoom it in and overlay this fiber logo,

it fits. It's like the words are there and you can't unsee it once you see it. It's like one of those like puzzles you look at. It's there. When you were doing your show prior to this big story, just doing, you know, other pop culture things or things that interest you,

sometimes you're political and things like that. what was it about this that really sucked you in and then realized like this is kind of my like my duty in life to like pursue this yeah you would have never I would have never thought it would have taken so much of my life up but at the time I was making full-time bachelor content so that was already my world and then when she started coming she threatened to sue me like nearly immediately within weeks so then it became I better to I better be on the right side of this story so It really just became a project of telling the truth to protect my family knowing she was going to sue me one way or another. So right when the story came out, when she put it out, we all thought that he was the, you know, the deadbeat dad of a pregnant woman.

Did you doubt her story off the top? I didn't believe it because she said she was afraid for the safety of her unborn children and it just read weird. So I didn't believe it, but I also was like, shoot, I can't, I, you know, I was pretty. neutral because like I thought Clayton was a good guy but like I've thought that about other people and they turned out to be monsters. So I wasn't going to like like ride on right on his team. But within days, within days it was linked together that she had done this previously. And at that point, the whole internet turned on investigating her and like she's been literally on her heels ever since. And she hasn't like she went from being in charge for years to like she has not won one inch of

the battle since then. And that's when everything else was exposed. Just like systematically, boom, one thing after another. Do you think she regrets making the story public with Clayton? Because if she had not, then she could have done this to other guys and kept it going

that were not famous. Yeah, I mean, if she eventually did the restraining order against him, it probably would have gotten out. So, like, whether she made the story public or not, the fact that she fucked with a name... I mean, it's the first famous person that she did this too. Oh, she would, she could have done this 50 times in a row. That's what I'm saying. If she didn't choose a famous person,

because even if you're right, if she didn't make it, he might have made it public. That's why I say like how ironic that it was leaked to the sun and then she flew too close to the sun. It's literally like, it's a Greek tragedy that she got too high on what she thought she could get away with. And then and then she kind of went for the bigger story. I mean, imagine the Bachelor. Like, that would have been a big story as like a victim. I mean, like I said, there's been so many men that are love bombing scammers grifters of women's hearts there's you know

what was that one swindler flinner whatever yeah the tinler's tinler swindler and there's so many like that and I would cover it a lot because I'm like girls are like finally someone gets me like he loves me this much I must be this must be right because he's so into me

and he's blinded by the love You're the greatest thing ever. And I thought to myself before this case, I guess it doesn't really happen to women, to men being the victims, because it's just a woman being like a gold digger. Or just a woman, or you kind of know if this girl's much younger and hotter than you. She's not really with you. Well, use whatever tools you can. If there's some, like, douchebag improv guy, you're going to be like, let's go practice improv.

You've heard it every, let's go right together. Like, you just use whatever tools you can. tools you have. Right. And so for the, so I always thought, there's probably a lot of guys that get swindled out of some money from a woman. And they have their pride. And they're like, I'm not going to go to the police department and say, go after this stripper who said she was in love with me. Especially if they're cheating. The cops will laugh. Yeah. Because it happens in New York clubs where like someone, they'll target a guy. They'll hook up with them. And then like, I'm pregnant. And like, what's the guy and go? No, you're not. And she's like, well, I guess I'll tell Tanya on Facebook that I'm pregnant. We'll see how that goes. All right, here's 10 grand. Get the abortion. Get out of here. And that's the end of it. Right. But that's a different scam. That's a different thing. And so I'm like, the thing that makes this story so unique is this is a very unique scam.

Yeah. And grift and whatever. But she's also not like, I talk about this movie all the time because it was a scripted movie. It was called Black Widow. And it was like, I loved watching it because this really pretty woman would go and like, yeah, she's a Dallel. a socialite now she's like a Hawaiian hippie and meet rich guys and whatever and again this is different than that because she was living with her parents in the caseta in in uh Scottsdale and the mom and the dad and even appear as a sister has like stood by her and the mom's like a

who had one a Pulitzer as a reporter the mom's evil and I didn't think the mom I thought she was faking the mom because I couldn't believe the emails that were coming out You should date my daughter. Give her a chance. But then it turns out you watch the body cam footage. The mom's trying to smear me. Oh, he's just some podcaster trying to whatever. Like, she's evil.

And then there's this idea, well, allegedly Ron Owens cheated on her. So maybe she's like manhating. Yeah. So maybe she's like out to get it and living through her daughter. Who the hell knows? Is the Ron Owens radio host guy? Is he still doing radio? No.

He's like got Parkinson's and he's in rough shape. sick. He's sick. Okay, that part's true. And they're broke. So the family's filed for bankruptcy and they've had some issues like their home was supposed to go like to the auction this month. And I think they're delaying it. So this is literally a guy who is making $1.4 million a year who has a $25,000 a month pension still. So he's getting 25K a month. And they got wiped out by a YouTuber. Like that's how far they let this whole wildfire go. They're living in squalor. And Laura lived in squalor in Sanford Cisco. She was impersonating her sister. So her sister's kind of complicit in some of her crimes, which I don't even blame her. She impersonated her sister just to stay in a rent control place.

So I get it. Like, oh, I'll take over the contract. Oh, yeah, I'm Sarah. Okay. But she was like, and I empathize with Laura because she would take care of like elderly dogs. I had one at the time. My dog passed where you have to have the dog in diapers. But she was living in this old, like, rent controlled apartment where she'd leave like the waste in the communal highway, hallway and you know she was calling the cops on people back then she was sued for equestrian like you know i think she like fluff some numbers to sell a horse for money like she's a what does that mean what does that mean fluff some numbers to sell a horse like some numbers yeah i thought you meant like a fluffer like a porn fluffer with a horse i'm like what are you talking about if it could make a buck

she probably would but yeah she was like it's reckless this guy sean hasn't received his justice he had a construction company and she like got him to admit to something you know just you know just like on like oh yeah we we must have done the wrong fence that you wanted like she got him to he was just trying to be nice like the customer's always right and she used it against them were they dating nope but he said but he said and i've i've spoken him he said that he thought there were some weird stuff where she was getting close to him and his own like relative was like this is weird so like you just don't know it's like any tool any tool in the in the in the box that she has will be used and um and it's dangerous and so like she's been seen on local dating sites like

a league and it's like who's next and um yeah so it was like how old is she now she's like 35 36 and she's got so like parents parents are about to be homeless although they're like again they could just move to boca roteone and live perfectly fine off 25k a month the fact that like she she tried to get like a like a state appointed attorney because she was claiming she was broke and um she was given a plea deal so two weeks after i go on your show two weeks weeks after that, May 6, 2025, my son's birthday. I'm at, you know, the Nashville Sound baseball game watching a minor league baseball game, and everyone's blowing me up. Can you believe it? Laura Owens was charged with seven felonies. We really didn't think it was going to happen because

people get away with this. Those seven felonies later became 14. So she's been charged with 14 felonies. And what are the felonies? I don't, I can't tell you every single one, but it's, it's like, it's like that the belly photo, they were able to find the real one. So she lied about that. She lied about. That's a felony. Well, she lied in court. Oh, got it. So she perjured herself.

So the felony is perjury. Yeah. Okay. If this stuff never went to court, I mean, they could have gotten her in, like, impersonation, but they were like lying, lying under oath, lying under deposition, things that, again, they're normally hard to prove. But in today's world, there is a lot of evidence out there of what people say and do. In that court hearing, she claimed she went to Mission Viejo to get the ultrasound, this ultrasound, everyone knew was fake. and then they asked her what date it was and then they found out that date was a Sunday

and that one's closed on a Sunday. Oh no, I went to this one. Like she's just lying out of her ass. And so, yeah, so right now she's charged with 14 felonies, which could be like combined sentences like 50 to 70 years. It's a lot. So the plea deal is always like, plead guilty that you faked this, this and this

and will give you, you know, a probation. And it's normally very lenient. My sources tell me the plea deal would involve jail time. But being at a county jail is different than like the state prison. Which is worse? The prison is actually better because you've got this funding where like you get to see therapists and go to school and work and do all these things. But it's usually longer. So she would probably get, if I had to guess, if she takes a plea deal, she would probably have to go to this jail for 30 to 60 days and be done with it.

if she doesn't take it, she's going to be found guilty of all these crimes. Only 2% of court of these cases in Arizona go to trial because 98% of the time people are smart and they just take the plea. They go, all right, I'll plead to these lesser charges and like, let's just get this thing out of our way. Let's be done with it. I'll be a convicted felon. I don't think she's going to do that. And you can't just plead to certain things and then later on say, they forced me. I was lying.

You know, it's like she's stuck. She's literally stuck. but she missed the plea extension deadline, which is kind of arbitrary. And she has up until trial to agree to the plea or negotiate something else. She hired an attorney for $50,000. God knows where the money came from because she claims she's never made any money. Well, the parents, obviously. Yeah, but they're also broke.

Like they've sunk whatever they had left. Then she got a new attorney for $50K, you mean? Yeah. After the state won. She got one. Who was the other attorney that was featured in the place? podcast that did like a Christmas YouTube special with her. That's David

Jingris. He's a piece of shit. Like this guy's garbage, right? So he threatens me immediately. He was hired to come in in ruffle feathers to try to get us to shut the fuck up. And the exact opposite happened. We doubled down and we found even more evidence against her. It's because

of that one attorney that we ever found any of this evidence. So he was like bad news for her and he ended up working for free and he was doing all this PR and lawyers couldn't believe that he was saying all of this publicly. Yeah, why do you, do you think that he was my, I think maybe he was interested in her or something.

That's definitely a thought that people have is like, what was his release? I don't understand why this, why this attorney is giddy. Listen, I get, everybody, there are so many, there are attorneys, there are doctors that all just want to be famous too. They would give up their practice to be on YouTube or be on a reality show

in a hot second. So it's like, maybe he was, was just a thirsty attorney. He had already had some publicity. He was defending the guy who had a website where they posted revenge porn and he was like defending someone's First Amendment rights. So he claimed to be this attorney who's like so pro First Amendment right. But then in his bio at one time on Twitter, it literally said, I'm here to defend your First Amendment right unless your name's Dave Neal. He literally was like trying to make jokes about the fact that he was coming after me. And why were they acting like it was such a horrible thing that you were doing?

Because at the time I was really the only one, if you could cut my head off, a lot of the other things might have gone away. Because at the time, there weren't many people talking about it because they had already threatened to sue everyone they could. Like we had friends who have podcasts in The Bachelor World. If you have the same opinion Dave has, you will get sued as well. And so some of them were just like, forget it. All of them. Yeah. They did the same thing to Nick. He bitched out. Like everyone else, he bitched out. So you think they reached out to Nick? A hundred percent. And that's why Nick did. So why did he have vented? do the interview, only after.

It was all safe at that point. Okay. Like the publicity turned on Clayton and it was a little bit better and it was like there was no, I mean, it's like, look, if you're some random podcaster, I've got tons of friends that didn't cover it, it's like, all right, that's not your cup of tea, but like he had the size to help Clayton. And I had raised this big stink with all of the alumni, being like, you all could have shared his GoFundMe on Instagram.

You could have made something not about you for a second. I got blasted by some people for putting pressure. And I used all of like the equity, like the bandwidth that I had to try to pressure people to help him. Because like I needed the truth to come out too. And honestly, a lot of people just like were like, fuck off, Dave. Like literally fuck off. Here's the thing. I have been in a position where I reached out to people with a link.

And I was like, this is, you know, you know. know, if you share this story. And I realize now why people would say no. And we are just podcasters. And, you know, some people are more journalistic. Other people are more comedic. Yes. It's like not there, they're not diving into it.

Some people are writing me like, please cover this story. And I'm like, I just don't know enough about it. And like. Yeah. But with this, like I understand. Well, it's like a union. It's like you're all. all in the same team. Like if the, I'm not, I wasn't on the show. Like, I don't expect anyone to stick up

for me. But I know like reality, Steve will. I know that she's all batch. I know that like game of roses. I know that they would stick up for me because like they understand as like an independent podcaster if I go broke over some bullshit lawsuit that they might be next. Right. And it's like, and again, I'm not here to call people out, but like where the, the, the, the bachelor alumni that were interested in like all of the social. justice, like, where, where were they? Where was Rachel Lindsay? Nick, Nick, he gave Nick all the info. Nick literally, he said my name in the pot. When Nick finally allowed him on, he said my name, like, Dave Neal helped me out. He edited my name out. I'll be fine, but I'm not, but I'm not going to

be like pushed around because someone fucked on TV and I didn't. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to be pushed around because, like, his show's bigger than mine is. Like, I built my shit from literally nothing. I didn't have to get like the checkmark from ABC to make my stuff where I am. I'm just saying, I wish people would stick up for me if I was being accused of things the way I stuck up for Clayton. So, like, I don't need the victory lap, but, like, don't go have them on when it's all safe and think that you're, like, helping this. Like, you know what I mean? No, I totally get what you mean in that case. And that's really lame to, like, cut out your name because you do deserve all the props and you do deserve, you know, getting the story to this place, to this long-form podcast.

It's been a hell of a victory lap. And again, I take the credit. There's so many people that did so much work that didn't want their faces shown or whatever. It literally was a whole ecosystem. And we were the first people that were monetizing what Laura was doing. So like we were able to create an ecosystem to combat her. And I told her that. I was like, I'll make money off every one of these videos.

I'm going to have ads slapped on them. And you're not going to make me go bankrupt like all these other guys you did. And she thought she, you know, tried to use that against me. And I was like, I don't give a fuck what you're trying to use against me. Like, this is the business. I'm covering it and there's no quicksand here. Like you can't bankrupt me like these other guys who just wanted her to go away.

So yeah, so it's like there's people like Hannah Godwin who like makes dresses or some kupschi bikinis. Like I don't expect them to go to bat for him. But like for everyone who's so obsessed with The Bachelor or the alumni, like where the fuck were you on the biggest story that ever happened in Bachelor Nation? Well, I mean, listen, in this business, Hollywood and podcast, it's very hypocritical and people will, you know,

fight for the thing that they think. is important. Stand-up comedians stick up for each other though. Like stand-up comedians stick up for each other. Not all the time. But usually on like, unlike, like if you're trying to be funny or First Amendment stuff, usually there's like core stuff that you're like, we have to go to bat for each other because like they'll pick us off one by one.

I mean, I agree. And then there's time for you can always conveniently act like you didn't see the message, didn't see the DM, it's not really my thing. Or listen, I've got big things going on. and I'm about to like blow up or I have a, I have this new management company and they are saying they abs, I cannot F with you. I cannot hang out with you.

I can't be seen with you. Like that is the truth. And I think being that this was an ABC Bachelor from the very beginning, ABC didn't want that stink on them. No one did. The Bachelor didn't want that stink on them. So if you are still in a world where you might get to host something or be on an alumni bachelor and professional,

paradise or something and you get word like hey don't cover this story there's a million other things to cover and that's what happens you know and you you know I'm sure you're grateful now but you should be grateful that you're one of the few people because now when when this stuff happens there's not going to be 35 other people they can grab from yeah right like when I talk about a real housewife's thing and then they you know use little sound bites it's me and of other people's sound bites. Who cares? Oh, yeah.

I sleep well at night. It's just, but it's interesting to look at because I've met his parents and I've met Danielle Maruccini, Mike's wife, who had to deal with not knowing for sure if she should believe her husband

when he made all of his claims like he was being, you know, accused of all these things. Like you meet them and you go like, man, like this community has been robbed of so many years of joy because of her. But yeah, the distress of something like an,

an unlawful lawsuit. And even though someone could tell you like, look, it's not real. It's going to come out. Depending on your own emotional makeup, like, it can be completely crippling, debilitating, takes your creativity away. Like, frivolous lawsuits and stuff like that are just awful. And he doesn't have any corporate money. Legal abuse, you know. Yeah, like he makes his money primarily, he has an Airbnb.

be and then he makes it doing cameo. So he's like funded by the people. It's like very democratic. Like he makes fun dance videos. He decided to use dance as his therapy. I bet he'll be on Dancing with the Stars once. I think this documentary will happen in a year or two down the road he'll be on Dancing with the Stars and finally get a little bit of like love, you know, but he's like, he doesn't need it. I still think there's certain stories and certain lawsuits and things that I mention just don't get the crazy. response because of what you said. It's not an easy thing. It's not an easy victimization or it's too ugly or it looks like it's anti-woman. And this kind of is one. I think it will make a great

movie. I think there'll be money and profits to be had for you and for him and for, you know, if she was ever willing to really come forward, it would be, but she would have to admit. Oh, I'll never make any money off of this. Like my, I've moved, I'm like so many stories past this, but it's still interesting because like I will be a witness if it does go to trial. Right. I don't know. But I'm saying like I'm just saying but with certain other stories like I've talked about the Bravo reckoning, the reality reckoning that like Bethany tried to do.

And I'm like the fans don't want to get behind that because the result is that reality shows kind of end. So we don't really want the reality stars to, you know, have unions and things like that. And they don't feel sorry for them and they're kind of jealous. it's like that story just doesn't go. It's so interesting how certain reality shows generate no following, like Survivor. You don't get a following from that because it's like the show's over when it's over. Hannah Brown, who has been promoting Love Trapped because she was like kind of like the biggest,

like Hannah Brown, when her season ended, she was like, maybe I'll go on a date with Tyler Cameron. And they walked off. They made this whole like after the rose thing. Their followers went crazy because the parisocial love relationship transcends what happens on the show. No one's following survivor to be like, let's see if he opens up that taco shop. It's just like done.

So with Clayton, he does have, like I said, he's funded by like these cameos. Like he does have this loyal audience. And there are mainly women following true crime that are sharing the story being like rather, because I understand the point where people were like, are people not going to believe victims now? And I don't think that's the case. I think. No, not at all. But I think there's just certain like when you see like a dancing with stars.

And I'm not saying he won't get dancing with stars. And I do think it's the biggest fucking nightmare. When you listen to it, you're like, this chick is just a relentless nightmare. And I believe there are huge victims, you know. And I think she's like the most annoying thing with an enabling mom. And I think legal abuse and all that stuff, I hate it. But I'm just saying as far as like a PR easy thing versus someone who became famous maybe on reality TV because their boyfriend. friend fucked their best friend. Scandible.

Ariana. Perfect. Oh, she's perfect. Perfect. Yeah, easy. You know, like, it has to be like a perfect storm. And, you know, this is just because of all the reasons you said. I hope we can clip this to then him being, no, on dancing with us up. I wanted to get to. I totally agree with you. I think he deserves it. I would like to see it. Well, that would only happen if it becomes baby reindeer level where it's like Christmas

comes out and this is your must binge thing, eight episodes. It's crazy because obviously the video will be way stronger than the audio. Right. And then really falling in love with him again and realizing he's like a great guy. And this is like his only dream. And she even used that too. She tried to say, through my radio famous dad, we know somebody at dancing with the stars. So I just want to make sure like, you know, I'm sure this.

I mean, I've had weird things like that happen where I've like blown someone off. Not romantic because I've been married forever, but like blown someone off. and they're like, okay, I just want to make sure, you know, like it's business-wise, like you're not interested in this thing. And I'm like, BS. But in my day, there'd be times. I'm like, oh. There's so much BS in Hollywood where everyone says they know someone.

And there was, Shane Gillis had that story where he, like a comic who had never performed before, called the club and said, I'm Shane's guy. Right. And then called Shane and said, I'm the club's guy. And next thing, you know, he's on stage. And they said, like, where do you want the light? and he said on me. Yeah, yeah.

It was like, what? But, like, some people have that delusion where they can, like, slime their way in with a couple name drops. And, like, I think most people, like, you got to trust your gut. Yeah. But also, like, good example that, like,

just people, if you have something that someone wants to take, you just got to be guarded. And Clayton has talked a lot about that where he talks about, like, maybe I need to hold myself to a higher standard, so I'm not just banging the realtor. Like, not that he did.

But like, playing in the client, yeah. Yeah, but like, yeah, oh, yeah. But, like, hold yourself to that level. easy like for a good looking guy especially in this day of age um how easy it is for a lot of guys to get laid and i won't throw rocks because i've been there in my single days where like the night's over you're out on the couch having a pizza and you're texting with somebody yeah you know you get the equestrian booty photo slide in i'm not here to judge anybody consensual have fun do whatever you want it's just like gosh is that and again it only happens mainly to athletes people that have money

You know, like there's always the stories of like an athlete meeting the wrong person in their DMs. And it doesn't always have, right, it doesn't have to be someone famous or rich either. And this is one of the stories. But there was a crime I covered that the guy was not set in the world necessarily on fire. But this woman wanted him all for herself. And she was so jealous that he was, you know, had seen this girl and maybe was talking to her. again, that then she killed the girl. And then it really, she got convicted,

but it really like effed him up forever because it was like, honestly, it's not his fault. But had he been more of a stand-up guy and not playing with multiple women's emotions and throwing your dick around and being dishonest by having somebody on the side or revisiting someone on the side, maybe the crazy bitch girlfriend.

girlfriend wouldn't have killed your side check. When I say like there are stories that have happened recently of women literally cutting a baby out of another woman's belly. Oh yeah. And my wife was pregnant. Those have been around for years by the way. We were like 10 weeks pregnant when this thing started. And by the time we announced our pregnancy, we announced pretty late because we wanted to tell our family in person. And it was like now people can understand why we went so hard on this because it's like,

did we have any rational fear that Laura Owens was going to try to steal my wife's baby? what's even rational at this point? She's doing insane things. Like there was, there's always like, we had tons of fear, and my wife still does because they've threatened to, you know, they've tried to get the sheriffs to show up to our door.

They've called the FBI. When we moved... How are they trying to get the sheriffs to come to herds? Well, through trying to serve me the harassment lawsuit. Oh. And we didn't know at the time we found out afterwards

that the judge had like struck it down. Normally they give you the temporary restraining order and you have like a month where it's like, all right, The judge saying, knock it off for the month. Don't touch. Don't talk to each other. Then we'll present our thing in court.

And that's what I assumed was going to happen with me. But then that was shut down. So then when it came time to actually have a hearing, because she was suing me for harassment. She finally, after months of waiting for that trial date, she, like the night before, claimed, we signed an agreement that was like all of the, she had, like, points she wanted to make that.

I wouldn't, like, have anyone, I wouldn't promote any, like, violence towards her, which would have been illegal. You can't promote violence towards anybody. That's not protecting on the First Amendment. And so then we signed that, and then that night she got a death threat, probably from herself.

Probably from herself. And I came in that night and we're like, good God. So, like, she wanted to flirt with this line where she didn't want to be in court. But also, that's a really lame thing, too, where I've been, you know, a victim of that. Like I said, you don't know where it's coming where somebody, you know, shares that they got.

not a death threat, but let's say a horrible thing to say. And they like post that on a story. And in that horrible thing, it's like, because of what you did to HMD, Heather McDonald, we hope this awful thing happens to you. And then like reposted that. And I saw it. And I was like, I do not incite people to go after people.

and this is probably somebody else posing like a fan of mine doing this, or you did it yourself. It's like a little Jussie Smoletti. Like, yes, you did it yourself. Like, what are you talking about? And that exists, yeah. Unless you have the podcast where I'm saying, listen everybody, I want you to DM this person.

Yeah, go beat the shit out of Becky. You can't say that. You can't tell someone to go beat the shit out of somebody. So it's like, and there's, yeah, but that probably happens. So then when that came up, the death threat. We just, I couldn't believe it. I had bought my, I had bought my refundable ticket because I knew she was going to. And what are the death threats say?

Probably said, Dave Neal told me that you did it to do. By listening to Dave Neal, I just want you to know, I hope you. And you're alive. I didn't even say her name for the first year. I called her Jane Doe. We just like, we were like, we're not even saying her name. We're trying to get the justice. So then what happened once that came out, then the whole thing was.

Well, nothing because like she had, she had agreed to drop the harassment suit against me. She was going to lose, but I would have had to go to court. and I still had to pay my attorney all of that. And, you know, I was prepared, obviously. I never thought she would actually show up for the court because she just, like, bails on these things. And, yeah, I just moved on in my life. I almost forget that that happened.

So then she did show up? No, no, no. She, the night before, I'm in Nashville, like, talking to my lawyer because this was going to be in L.A. where she sued me, but I had moved since then. And I'm like, I got my refundable Southwest Airlines ticket. Like, I can refund it up until 20 minutes before the trip because I knew that she was going to pull

some last minute thing, which she did. And she did the same thing to Mike in her restraining order hearing where she didn't show up. So then from there, then it just went away. Yeah, it was over. It was agreed upon. And you never had to fly there and wait. That was over. But I still had the threats of her suing me for her for defamation. And of course, if she did, she would lose. But like, I also had to show her, you're not the one with the money. I am. I'm the one with the attention that can sink you in the court system. So I think she's realized, like, you just can't fuck. You just can't fuck with me. I've been by the books. I haven't done anything that constitutes any level of defamation. But they still make those threats. And that's why, like, I've just had to be, you know, I'm, I've just, I've had to

make it so that I'm on, if you Google my name, I'm on enough places where I've shared the truth. And it's so, it's so obvious in hindsight now, once people have listened to the stuff. But at the time, it was like, a lot of, I don't know who to believe. It was like people had to really look into it. And that's the problem with these restraining orders is no, like, when Mike's trying to get a job, HR is not telling him we didn't hire you because there's a restraining way. You just don't get that callback. Clayton got dropped from speaking engagements where he was speaking on mental health issues and you just don't know why.

So that's the real problem is that you don't even know how you've been fucked with for years. And Mike was working in tech and he's got two kids and he's probably lost out on millions because of it. I mean, I don't even know if they have the surveillance footage of this, but he works in San Francisco and she went into his course. corporate office in New York City, allegedly, to get to get him fired. Like, she's a, she's a savage. And we know that now. And it's like, okay, now that we know we're dealing with a savage, it's just like, wizard behind the curtain. Like, all right, that's how you pull all the strings. One of the thing I thought was really interesting was towards the end of the podcast and trying to

figure out more of like what really makes this woman tick. There was one friend from her youth who kind of said she and the mom were best friends. They did everything together. Definitely an enabler. She didn't even learn to drive until she was 18, which now some kids do. But back then it was a little unusual, especially if you had the money to do it. And then also that she was into being famous and wanted to be famous. So that's why I'm kind of like...

She tried to release a country album. She's tried different things, yeah. Podcasting and all this stuff. And going for someone who's famous, who's Clayton. And so I'm kind of like, do you think that she actually is getting joy from all of this? Even though she's acting like she's not and she's being so tortured and she wants it to stop and she didn't participate in the documentary, which I can see why. But actually would be sad when it all ends. That's why I think she's not going to take the plea because she'll be the ultimate victim.

I went to jail because of the injustice of getting pregnant by the bachelor. Like if she takes that to the grave... Because she still says she was actually pregnant. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. And I've told her... But that she unfortunately miscarried. Yeah. And we...

And of course, we had this deadline where at 20 weeks, it's not a miscarriage. It's a stillborn baby and you need a destrificate. And so, like, she changed the dates on when it happened from when she would have been like way past the deadline with some of these photos, which we know she faked, to, like, in hindsight, claiming it was months earlier. So it's like, which one was it?

And that she passed at home, like, she wasn't at a hot. And she sent, and she sent, like, photos. And she never went to a hospital after. Never, no. She did the thing where she, like, consulted with a telehealth doctor. It was always like. Over a miscarriage. My God.

And also someone, oh, and I also thought at the end where she was trying to get out of all these court appearances, it was that she has ADHD, ADHD, anorexia, autism, medical issues, this, this, this, and this. And a lot of people have said, most people with autism, again, I don't know if everyone, everyone's different, but like, they can't lie. They have to tell the truth. They're like, you know, and so some people were like, yeah, my son's got autism.

He would never lie about one thing ever. It's like jarring how truthful he is. She's lying to her ass. Whatever she is, Munchausen by proxy is interesting. Her mom's seriously evil. I actually think her mom's more dangerous and evil than she is because in the end her mom's not going to have a felony over her head and I've seen her mom lie.

Her mom even tried to, when the investigators went to talk to the mom, she was like, is this thing on the record? And she tried to get it off the record. They're like, of course it's on the record. Everything's being recorded. And at that point, she shared a story. And I was like, I wonder what she was going to say

if she thought it was off the record because she was operating like a reporter, right? She was a, I said she went. I said she wanted to Pulitzer, Peebidi, whatever it was. She probably thought she could get away with steering the detectives away from the direction they were going. But then when she realized it was on the record, she's like, yeah, you know, and she changed her tune. So before we wrap up, where, what is she awaiting right now? She's awaiting a criminal trial for 14 felony charges.

In Scottsdale. In Scottsdale or whatever the Phoenix. Yeah, wherever, yeah, Maricopa County. A Maricopa. And I think it would be like a week-long trial. And when is it set for? I think it's in early July. It'll be hot.

And then come July, she can fake, she can say she's sick again and not appear? I guess she could. I guess she could claim illness and then delay it. But she could also, I mean, yeah, I don't know if that would look. I mean, like how many times can you delay illness? I mean, that's why we think she's going to sue for emotional. distress because she's lost a ton of weight. And I do feel bad for her. Like she for sure has an eating disorder. She's probably in the 80s pounds from like probably 1 30 or 125. And so like, but we say that

because with Greg Gillespie, she tried to sue him for emotional distress. And the judge said, like, you can't prove why you have hives. And so now she's like, I know how to prove I'm sick. These guys did this to me. Now, it won't go anywhere. But I think that's where her brain's at. It's like, If I can't be a victim there, I'll literally destroy my own body to show how much they've hurt me. Or she's just already had that disorder. But either way, she's like really sick and her family's not stopping her or doing anything to help her. And that's why I think one of the safest things is to somehow get her help, like through a system that's going to actually monitor her. Because she's living in squal.

If she was a child, if she wasn't over 18 and you saw the conditions she was living in when they raided her home, you would want to call CPS. like she's not well and we want the best for her but we're also not going to let all these other families get railroaded by her lives. No I mean there needs to be justice it's like you can't be like well sorry now leave me alone like no there needs to be some justice and you need to pay for what you did for people to people and I've always said like the best thing she could do is admit to her lies and have one of those podcasts where she explains why she committed all these crimes I would love that I would want juicy scoop I would know I would love that but I feel like when I've always questioned people like that, they actually don't, whether they cheated.

And I'm like, do a podcast about cheating women and explain why you chose to cheat or whatever it is. Like, it's interesting that they, there is, it's very rare that someone, sometimes someone, once they've come out of prison, if they were like a gambler, they ran a Ponzi scheme. Like they get sober. while they'll come and like tell how it happened and how it, you know, tumbled in that way. But I've never seen it when it's someone lying about cancer or something like this. It might just be some things she takes to the grave. And maybe she's maybe she'd benefit from the prison system by having some structure. And like I've always said the friends.

She'd probably make a bunch of friends. I think the best thing she should do, like I've said this before is just get a job at like an Aldi's. Just go go like get a job that doesn't involve your famous dad. And like go live in a world where like you can work on a. you know, a farm stand, like, just go try to be normal again. What Clayton is advocating for is that they somehow, like, mandate her getting off social media. Because it's like, you could argue that social media and that whole side of the internet has made whatever condition she has exponentially worse.

And it's like you're a danger to society. Like, you can't, if you're a felon, you can't own a gun, or if you have mental health issues, you can't own a weapon. If you have issues where you scam people, maybe you shouldn't be able to have a smartphone. And just knowing all the loopholes and everything that she did. Dave, thank you so much. I think this is, like, amazing. Always a pleasure.

That you are doing so. Tell everybody where they can follow you and watch your show. Just search Dave Neal on YouTube. I do a twice daily podcast called The Rush Hour with Dave Neal. We cover pop culture, politics, and just kind of, I'll give updates on this case if it goes to trial. If I'm allowed to talk, if I am a witness, I might be throttled back a little bit. But until I take the stand, I can talk. And that'll be July as of now.

Yeah. Yeah, I will be buying a returnable, a refundable ticket because who knows? I was going to cover the Baldoni case in New York. That's settled. So I'm like, I've got all these plans this year and they're all getting fucked. So again, I don't want to be in Scottsdale in July, but we'll see. Yeah. All right.

Well, awesome. Thank you. Everybody can go to Heather MacDonald. com. For me to join my Patreon. Thank you. Bye.