Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - The Reality Show War with Carole Radziwill

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Hello from NYC! Former Real Housewife of New York, Carole Radziwill jumps on to discuss the possibility of a union for reality show talent, how the talks got started, and the pros and cons of unionizing. Carole sheds light on the monumental decision to have her life filmed and whether or not she'd do it all over again. Then she drops a bombshell about who took the infamous photo of Tom at The Regency, and why it was even taken in the first place. Wayne Brady declares he is now pansexual...but why would he come out with that now? Enjoy this juicy episode with one of the most brilliant housewives of all time! Vote For Juicy Scoop: realitytelevisionawards.com/vote Get extra juice on Patreon: patreon.com/juicyscoop Subscribe on Youtube: youtube.com/@JuicyScoop Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/heathermcdonald Follow me on TikTok: tiktok.com/@heathermcdonald Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/HeatherMcDonald Follow Carole on Instagram: instagram.com/caroleradziwill Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Heather McDonald has got the juices scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juice is scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales. Her real life, Mr. St.Van Cereal Data and Cereal System You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tab or real life hot cat. Listen in, Listen up.

Woo, woo, and a McDonald. Juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy scoop straight from New York. I'm with my friend, the one the only former real housewife

New York person. What do we call them? Uh, Carol Radswell. Thank you for coming back. We've been friends for a while. You've been in the GCSQP before. This might have been my first podcast. Thank you. Like way back when. Yeah, we did it when we did it in LA at that other spot. Yes. And now we found a great little place to record today. Thank you. I haven't done a podcast in years. So I'm super rusty.

Well, that's what I'm glad you're okay. So this I, I don't know, I don't know if people are doing like 10 a day, like I want you raw. Okay, I'm raw. I just got off a flight from Europe. So I don't really know. You look great. Beautiful as always, stylish and fun.

I think. And I just recorded Waterhub's Live, which aired on Tuesday night, who was the guest? Because then we didn't the afternoon, because I think he was like stacking up a few. Maybe I was like, watch what happened. Recorded. Well, I mean, you know, it's summer. I'm assuming we should do that.

There was a show at ABC called Primetime Live. Yeah. And it was live for like a month and then it was like, fuck this. Take it. Well, yeah. And then it's summer. I'm like, I'm sure he wants to get out of the sentence. Of course.

No, so I had not been on, I've been on watch for Homeless Life once before. Right. Which was, I, someone looked it up for me because I had known, I was like, it was May 2012 and I was on with camera. And throughout the years, I've had like another book amount.

I've had two specials come out. I've had, of course, I've had podcasts for eight years. I've had two specials come out. I've had, of course, a podcast for eight years. I've been out here. I've had numerous people pitch me. Yeah. Finally, they said, yes. And it was today. I would think you would be like, almost like a regular. Like I mean, I sure said, nobody knows the stuff better than me, but I look, I'm happy to be back. I mean, you should be able to grab a back. I'm usually on the Bravo payroll. You're like on the marketer. You're like, you know what that's like? I love it.

I love analyzing all of talking about it. It's okay. It's all very pleasurable and fun. Do you still do Ramona? Of course I do. You do. I get her in the first. Okay.

Now, it's been two days. I haven't seen it yet. I think I did okay to be totally honest. It wasn't like my favorite performance of my life. And I was like so kind of leading up to it. What am I going to wear? Dada Dada. I was with Jeff Lewis who's a good friend of mine. So that made it really fun. He's on it all the time. Yeah. Like you should be like the female Jeff Lewis. Like just come to you. I'm happy to come time. Yeah. Like, you should be like the female Jeff Lewis. Like just come to you. I'm happy to come back.

Whatever, like everyone was super nice. Annie was really nice. I brought him a Barbie. I brought the Annie Barbie. You were the original. I know. Did you bring my Barbie? No, I didn't bring your Barbie, sorry.

But I brought the one that I used for Annie. And I've like colored his hair gray with a marker, a bunch marker. And then I had to a boy, little boy and a little girl. Oh, I did. And I called their hair brown. And I made him a little thing. And I gave to him in the green room.

I didn't want to walk out there with the time on a stupid Barbie. And he was very sweet about it. Totally fun. He was completely nice. And he was very sweet about it. And totally fun. He was completely nice. And I weird fun, but like the first joke, so we talked about real housewives of New York. Okay.

And that's not exactly what do you think, like I before, but starks. I knew they were gonna ask you about it. And I go, can I give advice of what I think it should be and can I bring up old real housewives in New York people? And he's like, yeah, do whatever you want. So have you watched any of it? No.

So when I watched the latest episode, I'm interviewing Aaron tomorrow, which you guys will hear next week. She's one of the girls. I like her a lot. She's like, very nice, normal person. And hopefully I'll get you to know her better. But I do feel it's a little slow, the show, or the show itself.

The show is a little, you know, I mean, I think all, it's like, nobody's annoying or anything. All the girls are like, well, that's pretty cool and likable. But yes, it's like, it's gonna take us, I think, a minute. But if you recall season five, which is the first season, I was on they blew up the show in season four, I don't for some reason, and when they got rid of Jill and who was great and Kelly Kelly and then also of Alex McCord.

Yeah, yes. And and it was really slow. If you and the ratings weren't even that great because the audience really is connected to the old cast. And I think there's a little that maybe going on now, but it takes a minute. It takes a minute. They're all like smart and pretty and stylish.

And the first episode I really like because we got to see their apartments and I liked their style. And I just love watching anything. It's from Married. With Jesus. What happened was it was it was a little rough start because this one cast member ended up leaving.

And you mean like in the middle of the season? Yeah, like within like I only did that last season. Like, no, I don't think that far along. But like, so they had to like shoot, I mean, they had to edit around the fact that they probably had a lot of initial meetings when this woman was there. Oh, so they edited her out of the show. Yes.

And I think in putting it together post like that, there is a little bit like, I'm like, wait, is this girl married? Is this one still single? Like I'm kind of like, but anyway, so my suggestion was, so one girl had something at the Hampton, that's Erin. She hosted everyone at the Hampton's, and everyone said the place was cold, and she didn't have any food,

was it her Hampton's house? Yes, okay. So not like an Airbnb. So what I wanted to say to Amy, like was to be like, Dorenda needs to tell her how to work a thermometer, like the service data, I mean, how to work the service data,

or whatever, then this other girl, Israel Flirty, her name's Brynn, and I'm like, Luanne needs to help her work with, you know, how to be a Flurk, because she's flirting with the chef, and she's flirting with the dada da, she's flirting with, you know, the guy's only teaching them to work with, you know, how to be a flirt because she's flirting with the chef and she's flirting with the dada da. She's flirting with, you know, the guy's only teaching them to work out

with literally the exact same stuff. They studied, I think they studied it. They had to work out at the Hampton. So with a hot guy. And so she, or the other girl flirted with them. I don't know. They were all flirting. And then they have, and then I go and then this other one hasn't had sex with her husband since her twins were born. And so everyone's like, you need you and your husband need to go on by themselves. The twins are like a little over one. So yeah, so it's been over a year and she reveals that and the husband is like, well, we're busy. Like he wasn't even like, I know. So glad those chicks are safe.

I'm like, so I'm like, what they need to do is then have Ramona take her to the exact same hotel. I'm so right. The exact same hotel that she did that horrible cringey scene with Mario. Do you remember, which is like, you are hot and sexy. She's like crawling on it. And so I kind of wanted to, so I kind of wanted to like, so I'm like, I'm sexy, she's like crawling on it. And so I kind of wanted to do this. So I kind of wanted to like, so I'm like, I'm just gonna get right to the room, the room on a part of it.

But it kind of like bombed. Like he looked at me like, and I didn't do it really well. And I got kind of nervous. But I get, I mean, so that, that show cut it bombed. But then I had two other moments that were good where he'd asked me about Kyle that might have been the after show.

Okay. Kyle is dating, we think. She acted like she was dating this woman. Okay. I, from the beginning, have gone back and forth. I like, I think she dropped crumbs. Yeah. Is this our storyline on the show?

Is it gonna be a story on our show? But one thing I'm so glad I said, was a couple of weeks ago, when this first came out, or through, I said, I believe she'll have some type of financial interest in this girl's career. Well, Loan Behold, last week, she is producing and filming a documentary for her Morgan Wade. And she's also featured in her music video, As Her Love Interest. Kyle's The Love and Kyle is, yes. Oh, that's hot. That's fine. Yeah, but I mean, she's still married. She's still married, but now I'm like, so I said that to me.

That's what it is. Yeah. I said that to Annie, I go, I still don't know if they're messing around. If lesbianism is a side effect of ozempic, I don't know. So I think I had like a couple funny moments. I had a couple funny moments. Then it's like, the audience is so small. Yeah. And I just came off of doing like five shows where it was like, you know, almost 400 people

at night. So to hear just like, like a weird chuck, I just kind of, yeah, yeah, you can't get your vibe. I think it'll be, hopefully it was fine. Hopefully it was fine. And people have watched it by now. And hopefully they'll ask me back. Everyone's very nice that works there and everything.

I mean, they should ask you you should be like a regular, you have such good takes on it. And you really, you really know the characters. Yeah. Like I would trust whatever you, like whatever you think about the Kyle storyline or whatever, or any of these newbies. Yeah, so he asked me to come newbies, whatever.

He was like, do you think candy brought up this girl and girl kiss because she's doing a movie that involves the girl and girl kiss? I go, yeah, I do. I do. And it's also in your life. And that is like always a narrative about and every franchise and every lesbianism. Yeah, there's always making out. It's always making out because I said that's provocative. It gets the camera time, it gets attention. It makes- I kind of think it's played out a little bit. Yes. So there is an actual real life lesbian.

Well, Jen and Lyon. Yes. She's a real lesbian. There's a lot of girls who are not real lesbian. Like now this girl is like, I'm a real lesbian. I'm in a relationship. And I feel like there is these moments where some of the girls are sort of flirty with her.

Like, ooh, do you like what I'm wearing, Jen? You know, that's not cool. No, I think it feels weird. I mean, I have two very good friends that are lesbian's fortune-fuser and Julie. And never ever have I like flirtyed with them like that. Like I think it's just like lesbian, pre-election, it's lesbian light.

Yeah, I mean everyone I think on the older cast, I remember like this was like seasons or even before me, they were all making out with Sonya. That was like the New York. You know, if you didn't make out with Sonya, were you really even a New York housewife? I mean, I never did. But like everyone took a turn. Yeah, yeah. You know, if you didn't make out with Sonia, were you really even a New York housewife? I mean, I never did.

But like everyone took a turn. Yeah, yeah. And I said to Annie too, I go, I think this was on the show. I just said, can we just get more guys in there so they don't have to make out with each other? Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is also they have a,

so the first time to the slumber party, Jenna brings lingerie for everybody, everybody's supposed to wear lingerie, but Jenna never gets in it. And this other girl hates her lingerie. And I was just like, I'm like never in my life have ever been on a girls trip, where we're like, you know, it would be really fun, you guys.

If we all wear, you know, bondage lingerie outfits. Like never, no. Would that have, and it just feels very, like those kind of things. I'm like, maybe it just needs to get its groove. Yeah, it needs to get its groove. I know it's always, I'll never not watch it. Cause at least it's like, at least it's shot in New York.

Yeah. And I like that. And Jenna has a great apartment. Oh yeah. Right? She's a great apartment, great clothes. Yeah. And ran into her recently. Yeah. She was in the middle of her confessional interviews. Like they go on for a really long time

after you stop filming. And then they bring it up, then they make you they go like, oh, five months ago. Yeah. So, and so I said this and you're like, uh, no. Well, I may ask you the question over and over and over again, and so they get some answer that feels, you know, provocative. But so I think she had just come from one when I saw her at dinner. Did you ever do when you were doing that? Did you ever just go just tell me what you want me to say? Yes. So I could get the fuck out of the lab. And not in the beginning seasons, but definitely in the last season. I was just the my season 10, where that was.

Yeah. What do you want me to say, Barry? Right. You know, like this, because they asked the same question in 10 different ways. And it's just like, and it's really six months earlier.

And you just know recollection or like, and you know, you may, you should be upset about something, some slight, some, but you don't you should be upset about something, some slight, some, but you don't really give a shit. Where there are moments when you'd be doing those confessions and you're like, now I know why someone confesses to murder just to get out of the room. Yes, it's a fuck.

It's like force, good. It's a force confession. You're just like, well, I mean, if I say what you want me to, if you say that I killed you're like him, then can I just go lay down? Can I just get out of this tidy room? Yeah. I mean, they go on for hours.

Yeah. Hours and hours, between the hair and makeup and it's like three or four hours. And you just like, it's like, you know, waterboarding. It's like, I don't remember. I don't remember. I have no memory of, you know, but I'm sure she was a bitch. So speaking of that, what do you think about the letter that has come from two attorneys that's not a lawsuit?

No, I know. And it's about, you know, should... Let me just... Let me end in the talk of like making a union or just, I mean, the letter. Well, I am pro-union. Yes. And so I think, generally speaking, there is a labor movement in this country that started

probably around the pandemic. I mean, you see an ad Amazon and Starbucks and people unionizing. I've always said, well, before it was trending or cool or safer to say that specifically with reality, those contracts that are signed are, like ironclad legally, but there's a morality to it that just is not,

is exploitive. And people can say you know what you're getting into, but you don't really, it's just like anything, you really don you know what you're getting into like, but you don't really it's just like anything. You really don't know what you're getting into until you're in it and yeah, I mean, I think I always thought that they should I always thought that that there's room for discussion with SAG or AFTER or whatever it would be to form a union because, it's not like when Ramona and Luanne and, you know, they all and Jill started season one. Like, it's a huge business, a billion dollar business. And the talent is not paid. There's no provisions. There's no provisions for, they're safety.

We ran into a really tight spot when we were in Cartagena. Oh, on the boat. Yes. And there's no provisions for, there's no like break time. There's nothing. It's just like unregulated labor. And so sure, there's definitely room for talks about organizing that. There's no residuals. I mean, I was just in Europe.

Some of the people came up to me like a woman from Kuwait. She's like, I watch your show. I mean, it's on playing 24-7. And the network is making a lot of money selling it again and again, again, to advertisers to streamers. And we get paid, you know, we didn't get paid a lot of money at all, you know, compared to scripted. And so, yeah, there is certainly, I'm pro union.

And I've always said that. I've always, you know, I think early on, I used to say that no one exploits talent and mental illness and addiction and alcoholism for entertainment better than Bravo. I know Bravo used to hate when I said that, but it is exploited. It's exploitive. In the end of the day, it benefits everyone when you're pay a fair wage and when you're treated with respect and when you have, when you have, you know, this is a business. And that would be...

And you can't say it when you're on it. Like people are like, well, why didn't you say it when you were on it? Well, working for a company, a big corporation, right? I'm signed a contract, it's a job. It's like, who talks about big corporation, right? I'm signed a contract, it's a job. It's like, who talks about their corporation? Probably. I also think you probably didn't,

you obviously are gonna have a different perspective, you know, a few years in, then you did the first day, and you're gonna have a different perspective for many years after you're not. And also, everybody's, it's fair to say I was the first house I've ever say anything about exploiting talent. I know you did.

Thank you probably said on my show too. I've kind of been saying it for a long time. Low is like slow and steady in my style. I'm not like right and bullying, but I think there's room for improvement with the network and the talent. Yeah, I mean, I think, like, for Andresher, I was just born or played right now,

but like, what would have been good as if Sag, like, started to think about incorporating them, they should have. You know, for Andresher is a Viva, one like it. Yes. cousin, right? And it's interesting. It's interesting.

I just thought of that because one of the, Yes. cousin, right? And it's interesting. I just thought of that because one of the, so I follow a TikTok account called Celeb Fail official, I think. I don't know who this person is. Whoever does it, he, she will call her, she does like weird voice over. So it's Millen's voice.

And she's used a couple times that I've talked about Bethany Frey-Colomai show and put them in her videos. Yeah, I think I see. And she is someone who really is about calling Bethany Freykel out on her hypocrisy, whether you... Oh my god, that's a full-time job. Yeah, it's and it is a full-time job. I mean, the work, it's a first time job. It's a mean, so a lot's time Bethany will post something and then take it down. And this person is able to capture it and then go back and then pick out all the, you know, hypocrisy that she's done.

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of it's pathological. Yeah. The gaslighting, the misinformation, the disinformation, and the straight-up pathological lying. I mean, I don't know who this person is, but I know she is either. But what's amazing is, you know, in Bethany's, like Quest to be, I'm the one that's gonna get this happening and I'm the one that can do it. It's like all she does is talking about, I was the most special housewife. I left and I came back and I was more successful and I did this and I did this and I did this. And I was the first special housewife. I left and I came back and I was more successful.

And I did this and I did this and I did this. And I was the first to have a cocktail and I was the first for sure. And she's so blessed. You would never, yeah. The biggest the first is like, okay. You would never, but in all any time we've seen Fran Drescher talk about, you know, this being like the fight of the life, you know, for the sag actors, she's life, you know, for the sag actors.

She's never like, I was on the nanny. I was, I wasn't just the nanny. I created the nanny because she did. I created the nanny. I thought of the nanny. I sat next to this person and got the nanny made. I was the nanny. I was the love interest of the main character as the nanny.

Like, of course, she would never say that. But she, there's something on ice used to say this, you know, I repeat myself because I've said everything like on the reunions and interviews since a bit and while there's something about narcissism, the upside of narcissism is that some people do get help because this is quest to be the hero of your story all the time. So I mean, I think Taylor Swift said it best in that anti hero on my family. I'm a Swiftie. And she says covert my covert narcissism just my my covert narcissism disguised as altruism. And that's what we're seeing. You know, right. The the narcissism actually has like

a savior. Yes. This is disguised as altruistic. Yes. It's just it's just narcissism. But that's like the upside. Because someone might get helped along the narcissism. But that's like the upside because someone might get helped along the way. Right. It's like the B-strong. Right. And in model. And actually the Slough Fail brings up the B-strong too. Which, you know, people always said it's her charity, it's her charity. And it's she's a fundraiser for global empowerment mission. Which is still good. It's still good to raise money. I do the same thing for a not profit in based in Europe. Yeah, so I mean, she's still fundraising, which is still good. But she definitely hasn't mentioned it in a while, and she's been, you know, going to the Red Lobster and, you know, cheesecake factory, whatever she does to when she does her

middle class cosplay and goes to, he goes to the 99 cents store and everything. So she's like a loop. Yeah, I'm so glad. I'm, oh my God, I'm so glad I'm away from it. I mean, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the brands that then were deleted. Okay, so.

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I'm just smelling violent and gardenia. I absolutely love it. Live life your way and get your fast fix for healthy looking hair. Go to THEOUAI.com. Thouway.com and use CodeJuicy for 15% off any purchase. That's Thouway.com THEOUAI.com CodeJuicy. So at one point, she's like this rant that Latest Rare,

that she was leading, she says, you know, and I wasn't always like the greatest person. And so she removed that, but then in this video, she was all the times that she is just like screaming, calling cast members, you know, you've sent her to have a camera. For everything she's drunk, it gets losers. Nobody's.

You're a dumb person, you said does it on that podcast. Yes. Yes. And she, the latest episode is from August 6th. So she's still watching the, I thought at least she'd put a pause in that. I mean, she's exploiting the town. And the real I think she's exploiting all of us again and again and again for, for, for the cash.

So I guess a while back of Eva Drescher had made a tweet saying that she at when she was on the show that she was forced to drink alcohol or something. Oh yeah, yeah. Bethany was with Ramona or something. Bethany on June 16, 2018 tweeted this. Hello at Aviva Dresher as the person respond, as the person responsible for putting you on Rony. Of course. So Bethany put Aviva on. It's pathological. It's like so Donald Trump. It's crazy. I know. I take offense to you, misrepresenting the truth and saying producers prodded you to drink. As someone here since day one, with 13 years of reality TV experience, it is a flat out falsehood at Bravo TV at Andy.

Now that was 2018. Interesting, because you're right. A Viva Dresher is the cousin of a friend of a Dresher. But that was true. I remember a Viva was, she didn't drink at all. Okay. And she, and there was a scene I recall, she was upset that they wanted her to drink with Ramona.

And so she was telling the truth. Yeah. So Bethany is, like, not only is like, she lied, she lied there now that she lied about her lying. And now, you know, anyway, so, so she told, she called Aviva Dresher out as a liar. But now she's actually claiming that they do what Aviva Dresher. Correct.

Said that they do. Correct. So yeah. So I mean, great thing about social media and tweeting all this and talk about the receipts, it's just like there's everything is transparent. And if when your story doesn't track and a lot of just generally speaking, a lot of housewives stories just do not track. Yeah. And it's just so, I mean, if someone takes a time like this TikTok account to really piece it together, it's quite a beautiful thing. I mean, it's really amazing, like all the clips and everything.

And it is the other one where she's like, a lot of people saying that you think that I'm doing this to say relevant, riddle me this. I'm like, riddle me this. Just like riddle me this. You think like, riddle me this. You're just like, riddle me this. You think I'm going out and trying on lip glosses and everything for fun. And I'm like, yeah, I do.

Well, she, I do. I mean, you're doing it. So then I'm like, okay, so that's why she took it down because I'm like, oh, wait, you're not doing it for fun? You're not. You just admit it. It's all business. When you act like I never getting sponsorships.

I'm just letting you guys know that this is the best lipstick. And this is the best. She's literally saying, you think I'm, no. Well, so then she realized, okay, I gotta delete that one. I'm just imagining like, who's the one running in and going, Bethany, take that down. Like, which maybe she, I mean, I have my boyfriend, the daughter, I don't know. She's so, she's just like, I have a boyfriend, the daughter, I don't know.

She's so, like, I didn't realize she was so still so pressed about like exploiting housewives and just talking. And she said she just a little while ago said I would do ultimate girl strip for a million dollars. And this is why I want on it. I want her self because she said these are the only people that are raw and messy. The kind of housewives I like,

they don't care about, you know, looking perfect. They're, you know, imperfect. And the only people that I can say is myself, Teresa, Tamera, and Neeney. That's who she'd have on the thing. But now, Neeney should be the one leading the charge of trying to eat the meat. Well, that's one leading the charge of trying to. Well, that's what I mean.

I mean, was trying to years ago, I think I remember reading something about she had her own personal like campaign and losses at all this other stuff against Bravo and trying to say that like it wasn't fair. And I mean, no one was very. Yeah. Choose to it. I mean, I think there's room for discussion about how they can you know, treat talent better. Well, of course, we say emotionally, emotional labor of being a housewife is extraordinary. Like, it's very, I don't want to say the word toxic because it gets overuse and stuff, but it's the emotional labor is intense and that can be exploitive. And you're dealing with women who do have some addiction problems or drink a little too much

or just are mentally not balanced. I mean, I think most of them. Right. I mean, especially now, you know, 15 years later, we know a lot more than we knew 15 years ago. $1 billion business. And they're not getting paid 60. The first season, how so I've got $60,000. And I know they like the season one, Ronianing people, some of them like to say, oh, we only got paid to $8,000 and stuff, but there's only six episodes season one, but at times, and it was unknown, no one knew what it was. So everyone was taking a chance, including the network. By season five, it was a bonafide monster hit, and we were putting out 18 to 20 episodes and the pay was $60,000.

So it wasn't a perfect episode fee. It wasn't even that much more than that first season if you put it in context. But, you know, there's definitely room for improvement. And there's definitely, like, the union would benefit too to incorporate, I mean, realities, especially now with the strike. The irony is that they're going to depend, never going to depend more on reality. the union would benefit too to incorporate. I mean, realities, especially now with the strike, the irony is that they're gonna depend, now we're gonna depend more on reality.

Well, here's the thing, she has been clamoring. This is just a PR thing, you know. Yes, definitely. I mean, the same lawyers feel like it. And they love the press too. And it gets people talking. And she didn't hire them. They're not, she's not spending money.

No, but I kind of feel like her calling out certain bravo people that are currently on a show. Like, oh, I heard from Paige, she was on Summer House. I'm like, well, God, you know, maybe she wanted that to be private. Like, why are you calling her out when she's currently like on a show and then she's like, everyone should stop working.

They should boycott it. They shouldn't go to bravo and I'm like, bravo, and well, I'm like, Bravo Con. And while I'm like, nobody is. Nobody is, the Vanderprunk kids are not, you know, getting hopping out of jacks pool. It's like you've made your millions now. And now you know you, she's probably know it.

She's burned the bridge so she's gone nuclear. But also she's exploiting still. She's talking about all the episodes, some of which I was on and she does not say nice things. She's very passive aggressive in the way that she speaks where it's like a word salad, but I know. And I'm like, oh, I know what she's saying. And she's trying to just be nasty.

It's like, why? Why? Why? I don't know. Listen, I'm so happy in my life that I don't have to deal with anything. But like, I want to ask you, okay, because so I definitely think anyone that would be entering the game today, like let's say the new girls on Rony, yeah. They, you know, would really, they really have to look at everything where this might go. Even if they think they're in a great marriage, even if they think no one's gonna find out about this weird thing they did when they were 17,

like you gotta know, like they're probably will. They're gonna know if there's a tax lien, they're gonna know, like these people will find out every little thing. So are you willing to do it in the hopes to get a kind of career that you want, which this fame will may or may not give you. It's a gamble.

Just taking whether it, whether there's a union or not, whether you get paid for residuals or not, you're still opening up your life, which is different than being an actor. And what may happen in your life will get exposed. You don't know if someone is going to die tomorrow that's in your life will get exposed. You don't know if someone is gonna die tomorrow that's in your life. You don't know if you're gonna break up by the person, you know, you don't know when you sign up. And so my question is like for you,

the show had already been on, but other shows like it, you were approached, I'm sure it didn't occur to you that, you know, 12 years later you're gonna be sitting sitting down talking about it with Heather McDonald and you're going to be in Europe and people are going to be recognizing you. I'm sure that never even, like where were you when you made the decision of how big or little you thought it could become by you going on the show? I recall, I hadn't seen the show because it was season five and it was a big hit, but it wasn't just not,

it was not something that was on my radar at all. And I just knew Andy a bit through friends. And I knew, the only thing I knew is he had a talk show. So I thought it was like the talk show and he would interview these people called Housewives. But I'd never seen the show and I'd seen his talk show and he used to do a blog about the talk show or something and my friend, Karen Duffy, would send me this box because it's so funny. You gotta read this and this show, this watch happens a lot.

Yeah. And so when I did it, I did it because I was, I didn't, I know a lot of housewives, they go on and they're like, well, we really, you know, we, you know, we listed the pros and cons and I discussed it with my family, my husband, my pastor, my whatever. I'm like, I didn't discuss with anybody. I was just like, I don't, it seems like a really weird, funny thing to do. And I was kind of at a crossroads. I had written one book. I had almost finished a second book. I was writing for magazines, Clammer magazine, and style, all those things.

And I just thought, A, it would sell books. And I wouldn't really, I made a promise myself that I wasn't gonna do anything that, and I didn't have kids. It was just, I mean, I was like, I'm thinking about how to use that. You worked to me, I feel like you, you did benefit from it

and it didn't also tarnish your reputation at all. Like there's nothing that you did on the show in my opinion that I think you should be embarrassed of. Like there literally isn't, like, no. Even the things that you said, even if they were, yeah, you know, the nicest, they weren't cruel. They were just funny and they were witty.

And, you know, but it didn't, it didn't, it might be, whether I had a reputation or not, I don't think I did, but it didn't. People even now come up to me. They're not, I'm not like a housewife. They don't, they talk about my books. They tell me a lot, a lot of young, younger women. They want to know about my, you know, ABC news and all that.

So, but it did hurt me. Like, it is, it to be in an environment like that for six years. And, you know, there's a lot of gaslight and a lot of pathological lying, a lot of all this, you know, misinformation and like mind fuckery. And it does get to you. Like, you know, so it did, And it does get to you. So it did, and I just did like an emotional mental level. Like I had to like really detox from it. Yeah. Because I remember like the reunion.

The last one was terrible. The last reunion was terrible. It was just like, I mean, I was feeling there. Someone recently sent me this brand that I went on. I guess it was about Beth. It was about Beth and I don't recall exactly. But I was like, damn, I went in. Like I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, like a blog that you wrote or something. It was something I was saying on the show. And then Andy was reading a blog that I had written about Beth and his behavior in one of the episodes about,

you know, how she weaponized her charity and we were all losers and cared. Oh, right. And then she said, oh, like so, Ramona only gave me this much. This person only gave me this much. You're a boyfriend at the time. Yeah, she wasn't a terrible kid.

It was all weaponized. I gave her $5,000. She never gave me a penny for any charity. I ever was supporting on any of the years I was there and not one penny. But anyway, I Was surprised at how strong and direct that I was and Andy was reading the blogs and it was saying a lot of things about You know narcissistic behavior and and then there's cutaways of me saying yeah, that's true true And then there's kind of ways of me saying, yeah, that's true true. No, that's true. Like I was just like, I'm like, who was that girl?

Like I was pretty fierce and then, but it was hard. And then when I left, it was, it was interesting. Well, what was interesting about the time that you guys were on was it was, there was social media and Instagram, but it wasn't the way it is now. When it started the same year, I was on. Oh, so people, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no to do it or their assistant helped her whatever. And, but then, then you would be privy to reading the blogs before, like now, when they do the shows, it's probably why they got rid of the blogs, actually.

Now when they do the shows, someone, like, let's say, the latest season of New York, they're now watching it and be like, oh my God, I can't believe she said that about my house. That's the first, that this person is seeing it because they're watching it. Back then, they would see the blogs from the episode before and be like, I can't believe that person wrote that

or whatever. And it was your reaction, you know, that type of thing. So when you guys were talking about the blogs in the reunion, she had said, though, Bethany, on the show, she was like, Carol has no career, has no kids, and has no husband. That was so cool because you are a widow and you lost your husband.

But that moment, I wasn't on the air, but I kept saying, no, this is what you said. And that's very hurtful. Don't listen to the air. No, that part was, but then Andy was yelling and the producers came out and they kept saying, she didn't say that you didn't have a husband, Carol. She didn't say that.

So, and there was a moment in the reunion, I think they left it in. I'm like, she did. She did say that. I'm not like me, I'm not trying to make a drama. That is what it said. That's really hurtful. And they're like, she did. She did say that. I'm not like me. I'm not trying to make a drama. That is what it said. That's really hurtful. And they're like, no, sorry.

And it was such a gaslighting moment. So they were saying she did say the thing about no career, no kids, but she never mentioned my late husband. And that's not true. And then it's still no current. No kids is really mean to me. I know, but Andy was like, no, the producer. I'm having like,

Andy was in his ear. He's like, no, I'm having like, Andy was in his ear. He's like, no, the producers are telling me they're watching the episode in the control room. There's no control room. We're taping them. And they're telling me that she didn't say that. I mean, it was so, and I think that's what led to me saying you're a soulful of shit or something.

But I made the mistake and I would do something different if I did it. I would never do it again, but I would do something different if I could go back in time. But I just thought you could go back in time. Would you go on? Well, knowing what I know now, probably not, or maybe I would, but I would do it differently. not, but or maybe I would, but I would do it differently, you know, what would you do differently? You'd have to, I was very authentic on it. Like I was in trying to be like a lot, most of the housewives, they try to, they act richer than they are. And they also buy into the, the, the, the, the, the, whatever the delusion that Bravo is creating, like you're

the business woman, you're the crazy one, you're the junk, you're the, you know, and I guess I was in some way the cool one, which I never bought into because it just is corny, like, and I wasn't, I was more like nerdy, but in that way that you combine to your persona, it does protect you a little, but I was just too normal and raw and out there. And like, I just felt like if I did it again,

I would be much more calculating like they all are. Much more like having an agenda, no one I'm saying. And I just didn't, I would go into scenes. And, but I think that's also where the show is not as enjoyable. That's why when you back then, they were all a gen. Some of them more agendas than others. But when you hear about somebody who's like, I'm just starting to watch, I've never watched before. I'm just starting to watch the comments that I'll get when someone like post that in my group or whatever, they'll be like, oh my god, I'm so jealous

that you're going to start from the beginning and you're going to my group or whatever. They'll be like, oh my God, I'm so jealous that you're gonna start from the beginning and you're gonna enjoy it for yourself. And you know, even though it's like 10 years old, it's like, because I think everybody was more authentic because they didn't know what being on the show would mean for the future and how it would be now going on for infinity. You know, and-

It started changing a little like season nine and ten, like where it was just much more calculated. And some of the, some households were better at it than others. Yeah. But it just became like the same scene, like one house that she'd like, cut man and scream and you're whatever, whatever you are, drunk a hornet yet and then, and then there'd be like a pen scream and you're whatever whatever you are drunk a hornet idiot and then and then there'd be like a penance you know like homes, you

know, I can't believe I did that and then there might be a cry and then it was like repeat and you know another scene come and insult a woman and then I can't believe I you know I said that and cry and become the victim. It was like a lot of that. Well now like on the new Rooney, it's like this one girl kind of sent a really, I mean, we went to our house and she just had like a shark, shark, couldery board that wasn't that great. That has gone on for four episodes. Oh, that's not good.

Like what would you do? How would you feel if someone said that about your shark, couldery board? I'm like, are you kidding me? That's it. I would feel like I don't care. Yeah, and then another one was about, they didn't wanna go to catch. They thought it was a little over.

And so the two girls went to a different restaurant and blew them off. I mean, I think it's, I think it's because, it's a little studied, right? Yeah, because nobody does wanna say, and because it is awful, you don't wanna get to a place

where you're calling someone a horror and a dumb dumb and whatever, as they shouldn't do that. But then the other part is, it's like the audience, you can't satisfy the audience because they say, oh, this has gotten too harsh,

and it's too mean. They like fighting. They like you. And then, when everyone's just kind of like nice and normal and respectful, and the snarkiness is pretty low key that people are like, it's boring.

Yeah. Like, I'm sure people thought me, I was always, you know, boring, like some, some people, some fans would be like, oh, you're so boring because I wasn't getting drunk or taking my clothes off or making out so I knew more again or, you know, you know, I was just like, I was like,

I don't think I would do that in real life. Like, I'm not doing that. You know, and I wasn't calling with, you know, I never, I mean, I got career-shamed, age-shamed. I mean, you know, there was a lot coming at me, even though like, I was like, not the drama. But when I think about it, the women, you know, went after me. I mean, Luanne, when I started dating Adam, I mean, it's like they really started, they went after me. But I never, I wasn't into calling women, you know, names and stuff. I'm, that's the work of the patriarchy. And every real narrative on that show is on some level, a patriarchal trope about women.

You know, women betraying women, age-shaming, having a career, not having a career, not having kids. I was shamed for, you know, it's just like a lot of shame, it's like the shame game. Yeah. That's a very good point actually. But you know, and there was just a lot of producing at the end, a lot of fakery. Yeah. A lot of fakery. I can see, I mean, you can see that. I mean,

Louis, I'm married. I mean, good for her. I was about that because that's a moment. It's about Tom. Please tell me it's not about Tom. It's about Tom. And right when that started to remind people, Louis was engaged to Skyneam Tom, please tell me, it's not about Tom, it's about Tom. And right when that started to remind people, Luanne was engaged to SkyName Tom, who had dated several other women on the cast, and it seemed like the engagement came pretty quickly after they did it.

It was like the second week. And you guys were all in Miami or something. But you were on it, we on the show at this time. Yeah, we were in Palm Beach at the time. A Palm Beach engagement party. Lake at an engagement party. And we went to Miami. Bethany is beside herself because a friend of hers happened to have been at the reading scene and happened to have taken a photo of Tom with an ex-girlfriend in which

they look like they're engaged in a kiss. Yeah. And now this information that she never asked for is on a phone while the cameras are there. I mean, that she's got to tell the way out. Yeah. And then what's the way I'm going to do? Is she going to forgive me? I'm still going to marry to him. What?

And a lot of people, not just me, we're very suspicious of how that came up. We were all suspicious. Like, and I've said this adosium in interviews or the few podcasts that I've done. But at the time, it's just so funny that you bring this up because at the time, I was like, there's just no way Bethany happened to have a friend. She doesn't have a lot of friends. One happened to be at the British.

I don't think you're just any friends. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't me. One happened to be at the Regency, like on a random Tuesday night at 10 o'clock when Tom would walk in with an ex-girlfriend and kiss at the bar. It just seemed so implausible and unbelievable. But it's like a storyline and there's a photo allegedly. And they were like like we saw a photo a photo was there she had a friend who happened to be at the Regency who took the photo and

sent it to her I remember that night she said she said it's all a fake I can't tell you why but I'll tell you my amy you know it's all it's not real what's not real the engagement was a real that was her take on it and And I was like, well, we're going to the engagement party. We're filming a show. I don't know. I got it. I'm going. I won't.

And so anyway, she does this whole thing about, and I talked about this. There's a book called Diamonds and Death. Right. Dave Quinn. Dave Quinn's book. And I downloaded this whole scenario about how she really found out that she knew a friend of hers knew the girl and was told that they still kind of see each other and hook up and on and on and on. So she said next time you know that's going to happen, let me know.

So she was told that Tom was going to be there on that Tuesday night at 10 o'clock with the ex-girlfriend and they were gonna whatever So then who's a friend that took the photo? So I could never figure out the piece of like who took the photo, right? Heather this is like talk about like there are no secrets Like six months ago, maybe eight months ago. I'm having dinner downtown the friend of mine This is a movie business And in walks Michael Cohen. Now Michael Cohen, I know he's Trump's lawyer.

And I'm like, whole mind. And they're no longer friends, obviously. I don't know. Oh yeah, right, no, no, no. And I was like, I can't. And Michael wrote a book and he wants to talk to my friend about maybe doing something like the book. And I'm like, oh my god, I just like a fucking Michael Cohen.

Is that dinner? And he sits down and he's a character. And I'm like, oh my god, I just like a fucking Michael Cohen is at dinner. And he sits down and he's a character. And I'm like, I'm prepared to not like, because all I know about him is from the the impeachment trials and all that. And I'm like, I got me on as he was really funny. And he's like, I know you. And I'm like, you don't know me. I mean, it was just that way. Because I know you. I met you 10 years ago with a Viva dresser. And I know.

And he starts listening. He goes, I know all those Evan Housewives and this one and this one and this one. And he gets Harry Dubin on the phone. He's like, you're never sleep with Harry? I'm like, I never slept with Harry Dubin. He goes, you're the only one. He gets Harry on the phone. He's like, you're never sleep with him. I'm like, I never slept with Harry Newman. He goes, you're the only one. He gets Harry on the phone. He's like, you're

sleep with him. I'm having to do a carer at school. You're never sleep with Harry. He's like, no. And we started talking and he talked about Bethany and Luanne and Sonia. He knew all of them. Durinda. He actually liked Durinda. You know, they were, they were friends. And then we started talking about Tom or the the wedding and and he's like please he goes I goes of course I know Tom who do you think took the picture and I was like wait what do you say and he goes who do you think took the picture of the regency so Michael Cohen was at the regency night. So I think he did Dennis shields who was then, then Bethany's boyfriend, he's boyfriend.

Piaw and say, I don't know what was friends with Michael Cohen. They both lived, they both lived at Trump Towers and they were, they were friends. And he actually talked beautifully about Dennis. And I'd met Dennis a few times. And he was really, really interesting, very smart, interesting guy. And so he was talking about Dennis.

Maybe that's how, and then he started talking about Tom. And he said, I took the picture. And I was like, I just, like, I'm like the picture that was on. And he's like, yeah, because I don't get it. And then he said that Tom knew or something or eventually knew that that that Michael Cohen had taken the photo that ended up being forwarded to Bethany and ended up being on the show now I cannot I so let me just say allegedly because this is right. He was telling me he wasn't

He wasn't drinking. He wasn't drunk. He and he came out with it like it was like, big deal. He's like, yeah, I took it. So allegedly, you can tell a bullshit story on a reality show eventually and all comes out. So allegedly, he took it, allegedly, his friend, allegedly, Dennis, former boyfriend, Preston P in piece of Bethany. Yes, that's how Bethany talked about on the show. And yeah, and Bethany allegedly knew the woman

and said, let us know when this moment comes. Yeah, it was all set up. Yes, that part I knew because I met the woman. I've ran into the woman I got up some event in New York like a couple years ago. But I just was not that I cared, not that I was looking to find out who took the fucking picture. I did care. But like it just literally sat at my table. I was like,

this is nuts. Yeah. Well, that's a good one. I don't think I ever told anyone that. No. Yeah. Because I'm just imagining like some girl being like, but I really do. So weird. Because you're right. like there aren't friends you have. I mean, the chances of, I thought actually production had set something up, but, yeah. I mean, in a million years, I would not have thought that Michael Cohen was gonna sit

at dinner and like tell this whole story about how he's thinking. And then nobody was invited to Louis on his wedding, right? Was he been so? I think Dorenda was and so? I think Dr. Rinda was. And so I'll maybe drive away. Yeah. I mean, I never told the WAN about that. I never told anyone.

I mean, I just just like six months ago and Michael mentioned it. Wow. Allegedly. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly. Yes. Yes.

Ah. Oh my god. How's that show? Crappy Lake doing, speaking of. I think it's really fun. I mean, I think it's really well. And that is why, and I talked to Andy too, I go, oh, because Jeff was there and Jeff said,

oh, I've got Carol, Caroline Manzo coming on Jeff's show. And he was kind of like, mm-hmm. And I go, oh, interesting that you, the ultimate girls trip with Caroline Manzo, the juicy thing that happened on that, which they shot that before they shot, the OGs going to St. Bart's. So that was supposed to air first.

They have now put that on hold. The one with Caroline Manzo and Brandy because another lesbian thing happened where Brandy tried to make out Caroline Manzo and grab her Gentles and HR and whatever not involved. And so I said, oh, it's interesting that you are pushing that one back and moving. So that one, if we ever do see it, is not going to be till 2024. And the, um, the, the Rony one and now the Rony one will be in December. Oh, yeah, they went back to the house that we went with the pirate. Right. And they, and they, they believe that, oh my god, I mean, I think the thought is that crappy lake is doing well. I mean, I'm talking with the fans, so they'd rather obviously, but I see

I say little by the time to talk and it looked, I mean, listen, what say what you will that Luanne and Sonia? I like what they were not my, you know, they weren't my pals on the show, but, but that show looks, that's like perfect. That's like a perfect show for them. I mean, I think it's like funny and comforting. And the thing about, and I said it's too late on too. I go, you know, throughout watching you,

you and Sonia both, never in all the years ever like did the really mean, you know, not just on New York, but other franchises. There's certain housewives that would really be like, I have this thing I'm holding that I'm gonna plop and ruin your life. Like a photo. Yes, like a photo. Like a, I know.

I know what their husband did. And I think that you're lying. I think, you know, and I, I was in the car with Kathy Hilton, you know, like, to be so run, I like, there's certain people that, that throughout their career, whether you like them or not, have done really kind of cruel or manipulative or said really cool things. And I just can say, I don't think, in my opinion, of watching everything, Luana and Sonia are just not outwardly cruel people. They're not manipulative and they're not calculating, they're not planning shit out. They really are silly and fun and they're just out to like fuck some guys and drink. Yeah, and I have some fun. Yeah, I mean, she

called me a pedophile. She got a little, a little, they went right up to the line. Now she goes on on the press tour. I don't think, I don't think I'm a favorite of hers, which I don't mind it all and she's super pressed about it. Did she say something about it. Someone sent me a clip about it. It was so random and I kind of laughed because I thought I harbor no real will. But the question was, who do you never want to see again? And Sonia said someone on a different show. I'm like an OC lady. And Lou Ann was like, well, Carol Ratz, I was like, really? And because then she does the work of the patriarchy too,

because she is that woman who is going to defend the corporation. And she said that I may have said things that were against Bravo. And I'm sure I did, but I'm not genuinely reflecting at the altar of corporatism or capitalism even. So I'm gonna speak my truth and my experience, but she came, it was just so random. And I almost thought like, oh, no, no, no,

Louie, it's fine. Like, I think you're great on your show, and I'm happy for your cabaret. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that's, and I think that's all she wants to do. I think it was like, I just wanna be silly and be fine and do my shows and maybe just some other fun stuff along the way and find a guy.

I mean, that's really, this she married again? No, she's, I mean, really, when I was hanging out with her recently in LA, I'm like, your buddies. And she is really like a dude. Like she's like a rock star guy that gets like dudes hitting on her all the time. And she goes for them young, gets late all the time.

And she's a little bit bragging about like in a good, like I love it. Cause she's like, oh wait till you see the St. Bart show. Oh, I got the hottest guy there. And like, and I'm like, I think it's kind of funny and I think it's kind of great because it's like, you know, I'm that part of I like that feminist side of it. Like yeah, you're you look freaking amazing. You're super sexual guys like you guys hit on you and you are not ashamed to be like, yeah. Yeah. I'm on the road of a free agent

and she's got her groupies. Like I did. She's a little bit like guys and I'm like, good for you. That what was straight guys that watched. Oh, no, straight guys. I mean, just saying like she'll just be out and like a hot guy will like hit on her and she'll go for it and like put a little notch on her belt.

And I'm like good for you. Yeah, I mean, yeah. But then she's also like I would, you know, eventually she's like I would love to, you know, be married again and everything. But right now, yeah, she's just enjoying, yeah, enjoying and she should because, you know, like anything. She was good at it. She was also someone who bought into she's a delusion there, right? So she bought into her. Well, do you have a musical here? I mean, and so those those house I was who've got to buy into their bullshit. Yeah, they they can survive and they can keep them. Because like I remember it was Bethany that was said to really horrible things to her and she just

sort of let it roll. I don't think she's a fan of Bethany anymore. No, absolutely not. Absolutely not, but she just bought into that persona so it can protect you a little bit. And maybe she brought it to crappy late, but I've never seen it. I'm not going to watch it just because I don't really watch reality at all. But it looks funny. I thought, oh, that makes sense.

I'd like to produce that show. Yeah. That makes sense. It's like a simple funny, like the simple life a little bit. Yeah, it's like the simple life. I'm doing like a whole fucking advertisement for a crappy like, but I think on the payroll. But I think that, but no, but I think it is. I think it was a good idea for sure. Yeah, it was a really good idea. Fed, you know,

that little simple like escape, they're not mean to each other, but they're still our two girls that we like to see, you know, because it's like, you do kind of like the OGs you do, because you know, I'm so well. And it's just kind of, it's like when I was on the plane and going from LA to, um, to New York. And I'm in, you know, my, I didn't, my iPad wasn't like working. So I'm like, we have to watch what United has to offer, right? And I wanted to watch what I saw the television, any television show. Like, please, I get to the SS police sex in city, police sex in city. And all my then first I thought that they only had three. No, I watch like seven.

I mean, the old, the first, the old, yeah, and the United picked or whoever's in charge of United is freaking that they picked all the best episodes. Like one or two a season that like, you know, that's nice. Like when, you know, Carrie starts to have her affair with Big while she's still with Aiden, like any pushes her up against the wall and the elevator like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so good. All the like iconic episodes. And I'm like having a couple glasses of wine

and I'm just loving it. I'm going to New York, I'm watching the New York scenes. I, it holds up and you know, when you're up in the air too, you get like more emotional. So now I'm crying. I was walking, because I was like, I have an,

oh my God, I currently have a, a Charlotte at a summit. And all of a sudden hit me. Oh my God, my one friend, Laney, even though she's been married like 30 years, is very much like Samantha, the personality, the funny. Yes.

And I mean, that show really holds up. That was in the 90s. Oh my God, it's the best. That holds up. That holds up in a way. Roni, OG, that doesn't hold up as much. Or maybe a death, too. No, but I kind of have the same feeling

which is why I do love peacock and I do wish people were getting money when I watched the peacock stuff. I know. Because I will be like, sometimes I'm like, I just want to watch. I looked on there to see which things, they did have one reality show, one real house I've on there, but I can't remember, but it didn't interest me as much as watching Seif and Sidney,

but if they did, like season four or five of Roni or something, I probably would have watched that because it's like comforting. Say what really should be getting paid for that. The first three seasons of Real House was a post-C, first year four seasons of I will, I could watch that. It would. Or it's like there's something weird about, it's like weirdly comforting.

It's like me watching Wonder Years or I love Lucy. Yeah, and it reminds me of like, oh, you know, this was around, you know, this was around, you know, when we were in our recession of 2008, I don't know, it's like, there's weird like kind of like funny history. It's just, yeah. So I think it's kind of like that. Do you think it's Latin? It's going to last or it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's seen its day and it's kind of

winding down. Which is, this whole franchise, this whole idea of female betrayal, being entertainment and kind of exploiting all those patriarchal tropes that women. I hate you. I feel like it's coming. I think that just like sex and city, I think that young that young people younger women

Will find it and they will love it the old the old stuff Yeah, I don't know about the going forward. I think it's gonna be a more of a challenge, but the one thing that My friend Kate Casey was saying was she's like I do and even Spencer Pratt said it on my show for the hell I've seen him on your show. I would go on a reality show right now for free. And he was like, this is why I don't think it would, why I think it's gonna be a challenge as much as I, you know,

is he's like, because, why would he do it for the first time? Because honestly, I think, what else, like if you're trying to, if you're a woman, you want to be famous and you, but you want your job to be being an influencer, you will never at this point in 2023, it'll be so hard to gain traction without being on TV. Without being on TV, but if you suddenly go on TV, even if it's one season, you will

get up to, I mean, you don't know, either, most of them are influencers. Yeah. And so they're like, even if, hey, even though I just do this for one year, yeah, I'm going to walk away with 800,000 followers, and that's going to be enough to build on and get deals. And if I want to sell a product, if I want to find, like, how else am I going to get it to be famous? There's no other way. of brought because Bravo is not

interested in promoting your product right right it is but so but you now Instagram and take tag is so big you can take it off but I mean imagine being like like we you know we were saying like in watching real house as I was seeing stuff and people are like oh I think they need a new cast or whatever they need and it's like the oh, I think they need a new cast or whatever they need. And it's like the stuff that's really interesting about Orange County, what you want to see, is you want to see, like I want to see that fourth wife,

who's 30 and her husband is 59, and he has a new set of white veneers, and they're tan, and she has to don't judge the younger women with older men or older women with older men. I'm actually not judging. I'm saying, I want to see what that life is like. I'm not saying she shouldn't have done it. But I would like to see the benefits of it, the challenges of it. What is it like to be a step mom? Is

she friendly with, we saw a little bit with like Megan King Edmonds, you know, she was friendly with one ex wife. She wasn't friendly with the other But like those those things are interesting when you see them And I do think actresses all watch it just bothers me for some reason when you see real bonafide Serious actresses. It's upon escape Okay, it's like what people like to me and they're like What like watching my show and they're like, there's more important things going on in the world.

I'm like, fuck yeah, there is. This is an important, this is an escape. And I think it's the same thing where it's funny and it's like an escape. It's just like a comforting thing. It's not, because they do the promotion for Bravo so well. Like sometimes I think that they're like, one of the things that Bethany always refers to it

is that like the sport, she always used her new thing is referring to housewives as a sport. She's like, and this is how you play the sport. And she was like to Jill, she's like, you dropped the ball. You fall, you know, see always, and I'm like, you look at historically

at how she speaks in that word salad kind of way, which is just idioms strung together sometimes. You know, you have to execute and take, you know, take the ball into the end zone and like, what the fuck are you saying? It's just, it's got, it's hilarious, but it's, it's like a bunch of phrases and, and like, like a cheerleading kind of thing, but there's no substance to it. Yeah, I agree. Okay, let's just talk about a couple of topics. A couple of hot topics for four. I hope I'm going to be well versed in all these hot topics because I've just I've been away. I've been away. I haven't got some of the juiciest ones. So Wayne Brady,

comedian, I know whose line is it's anyway, and he's been around forever, and he's the host of, let's make a deal, and he was married and he had a child, and now he just came out as saying, I'm pansexual. He didn't say it's bisexual. He said, he's pansexual. What is that? I think it means I'll take anything, but isn't that by? Oh, no. No, because you might maybe you would get someone who can't change or something. Okay.

So you're just any person that interests you, any whatever their sexuality is for gender, you might be open to it. Okay. Why did he come out and say, okay, well, that seems. I don't know why he came out. And I'm kind of one of the man now, is that well, I think, I think the only reason you would say that

is because some of these come out. I feel like I'm getting ahead of something. I've never I've never acted on this ever. But I just wanted the world to know that I would it could possibly in the future. If I met the right guy, might be a track of a guy, not that it's happened yet. Yeah, I feel like he's getting what they say get ahead of the story. I feel like he might be getting ahead of a story that we haven't heard yet. Well, it's a great time to be something other than straight. That's having history.

So like, if that's what you are, good, be honest. It's not, I think maybe it was, oh, I think maybe, okay, maybe there was something coming out or someone threatening. And because he is on such a squeaky clean network show. Oh, he is. Okay. Let's go. Okay. Well, they wear like the goofy costumes and stuff. Yeah. That he leaned into it. That's a strategy to take the wind out of the sale. Or maybe his contract was up. And they might be thinking not based on sexuality, but as talented as he is and as likable as he is, maybe he's at a place where he's getting paid so much that they might be like, you know what, let's get away. Let's get a younger version of Wayne

or different person or a woman or whatever. And he was creating some press around us. And so then I think he was like, well, let me come out, let me hit the world with this because if they try to fire me now, they won't be able to. Yeah. I think that's happening.

Genius. Because I'm sure he makes a lot. that's because he's been doing it for a really long time. It's so good. It's a staple show that's been around for like 30 years and he's been the host for like at least 10 or 12. That is so good. I agree with you. I think now he's setting himself up as a double trip minority or triple one. Oh, he's checking, it's called checking boxes. He's checking boxes. Okay. Well,, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it.

I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it.

I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it.

I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I mean, he's trying to get it. I it also includes gay and then includes trans. Yeah. Oh my god, he's hanging a lot of money. Not that he's trans, but that he could be with a trans person. Right. So that's five boxes.

I mean, I'm just boring head or row. I need more boxes. Well, I mean, it's like, yeah, it's the boxes. Okay, so that's kind of juicy. Yeah, that's, that's, let me see. What else is going on? Well, this, I, that's kind of juicy. Yeah, that's, that's, let me see. What else is going on? Well, this, I thought was kind of, so Jamie Foxx, who we still don't know what happened to him.

We don't know if he had a stroke. No, no, it happened. Some people on TikTok believe he's been replaced by a whole other person because his complexion has changed. Oh, I shape this change. I think it's still Jamie Foxx. Right. But he had a medical situation.

Yeah. Anyway, he wrote a post that was like, I saw it on the top. It was something about like, like, killed Jesus. What were they going to do? Yeah, they killed Jesus. What are they going to do to you? Fake friends, fake, whatever.

They, right. And Jennifer Aniston liked it. They killed you. Yeah, they killed Jesus. What are they going to do to you fake friends fake whatever they right and? Jennifer Aniston liked it. She later on said I didn't not like it. I didn't like it. I didn't mean to like it. She didn't really admit to like Invertly she didn't say it was my social media. She just said I'm horrified that anybody thought that I liked it because What we don't what what people thought it was anti-semitic By saying that in the Bible, okay, you know the Jewish people the Jews crucified Jesus, okay So by saying they killed them. What are they gonna do to you fake friends fake Hollywood and that feels like he

I don't know I'm the wrong person because I do not believe in any sort of organized religion on my own. I can explain it so it was raised Catholic. So I always raise Catholic. But so my dad used to say things like he'd go, hey, there was only one person who was perfect and you know what they did to him.

And never, yeah, when my dad said that they, did we ever refer, were we ever thinking of Jewish people it's like people in general so don't try to be perfect but he's someone who's fake like he was talking about who who was the Judas Judas yeah yeah so a lot a lot of people then came to his defense about, it feels like he was talking about a betrayal of a friend. Right. It was like his, Judith and Judith.

I don't know, Judith was maybe his wife. Maybe his wife told his pronouns. And Judith, now. And Judith goes by, baby. Maybe, baby, it was just one person. It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't just, it was just one person.

Right. But pronouns. He meant Judith, me and David. It feels like he was talking about a very specific person. It wasn't yeah, it wasn't just it was just one person right but pronounced he meant Judas Me and it feels like he was talking about a very specific But Judas betrayed him for you know in the Bible for 75 Silver points out something like that and was and told and told the and and let the These soldiers know where Jesus was hiding. Yeah, wow. He was like Please these soldiers know where Jesus was hiding. Yeah, wow. He was like, well, please, Father's kind of school, but I remember. So I remember wearing a rosary as a headband

and then I got that's not okay. I know. We're supposed to wear rosary as a necklace either, but I remember I'm not getting really mad at it. Like because we were like in that like Madonna era. I was wanting to wear that and she was like, I know it would be bad. You don't be wearing never trusted organized.

I know, I know, organized. Right. I believe in higher. But as Christians in general, I believe that Jesus is the son of God, whatever. A lot of people, Cajunist offense, because they're like, no, no, no, it's never been like that. When people have said that, it's been like what my dad said.

Like, don't try to be perfect, because there was one person who was perfect. Yeah. And then they hated him for being perfect. So like people in the lesson was, people are gonna hate you no matter what. So don't be a good person. But it was never like an anti-summit.

So anyway, that girl Lizzy, who I talked about earlier, Lizzy, who they have left. Rodi, I follow her, you know, because she's very pro-Israel and she's a Jewish matchmaker and she's like an orthodoxy or something. So she first talked about it how she said this is horrible, horrible that he did this, but then she did another one after and she was like, okay, thank you for educating me.

Then she did another video and she said, listen, this was upsetting to me because I was a Jew in Texas. And there were times growing up where people would be like, your people killed Jesus. Because when you'd be like reading or taking a religion class, they would say, you know, in the Bible, and then the Jews did this. And then the Jews said this. So you're the one Jewish person in the school. And dumb little kids might

have said that to her. So that's why she was sensitive to it as well. And then the she apologized. She said, a lot of people have written me and explained that it's not that. It's not attacking. He apologized. He said, he took it down and he's like, I think it absolutely wasn't anti-Semitic at all. It was like people betray people. Right. So I've been betrayed fake friends, fake Hollywood. It wasn't me.

Anti, but you know, it seems odd. He has this mental condition. He's been under the radar and the first thing he's come out with is going to be some crazy anti-Semitic trope about killing I mean it was but it is sad and it is something that you know you know we have to be people are aware of because the crimes you know the anti-Semitic crimes have been horrific and I mean I totally totally get it but it just goes to show you and then the but the Jennifer Aniston, what did you know what she accidentally liked something

and somebody caught that. Oh my God. And I have accidentally liked, it wasn't even a post, it was like a comment in my private thing that then somebody screen grabbed sent to the person that everyone has the sex. I recently accidentally followed the ex-girlfriend of a guy that I see.

So, I mean, that's worse. There is a very blue check, and it's very obvious. And I did it. I said, what did you do? Then you had to leave it or then you'd try to unfollow. No, I just unfollowed. It was just innocent. I was just looking, I don't wanna go into the whole thing,

but it was one of those moments where I'm like, oh no. There was a really funny TikTok of this girl. And she's sitting. By the way, I like to talk about funny TikToks I see all the time and I saw somebody wrote me and they're like, you're stealing material. And I'm like, I'm not saying that I did this.

I'm saying I saw a really funny TikTok. I did not execute this video. I literally saw it. Like I'm not saying I create, but this girl's sitting there and she's, they're like, they show her and then it's like the writing and they're like, and then when you ask, when you're stalking your boyfriend's,

your ex-girlfriend, and you accidentally like a post from 2017. And she's like, oh, she's like rolling out, she's like rolls into the pool. Like that's how it goes. Because there's no way. And you know, and especially if someone isn't famous all of a sudden, they might not know what's going on. They might not know what's going on.

And someone follows them or someone likes it. But I think you get notified. Like, I don't care. I don't read. It's following you. Why? Somebody started following me. I don't know that someone started following me.

Because I don't have those notifications up, but for a regular person that has whatever, 200 followers. Yeah. They're like, oh, this person I met at the party is now following you, so they get it. But, anyway, it's like I have like three fake accounts and like 10 aliases. Like I wanted to snoop at.

Right. I could do it It was just totally innocent, but I was like you need that like it should be like a premiere service where you can pay into it And then you could immediately Unlike or unfollow with before a notification. Yeah, like I think a lot of women would pay pay for that service. Yeah Harry and Megan. Harry, wow, they still, they're still today. They actually bought the rights to a book called Meet Me at the Lake, which was a novel that is based on their lives on Megan in here.

Yes. Somebody wrote a novel like that. They bought the rights and now Netflix Netflix is gonna do the movie. So I don't think they're completely out of the game. I thought they were like, I said some of like, Netflix didn't do that. The podcast is dumb, I guess Netflix was like, you better come up with some material,

and I guess this is one of the things. But of course, the novelist, the story was, they knew the book was based on their romance. Did they meet at the lake? I think it's like a fictional murder. No, I mean, why are they meeting at a lake? Girls go missing. Yeah, I don't know.

What? I don't follow them that much, although I was in London, and there's a lot of headlines about Megan and Harry and how do they what's the vibe? Did they still hate her or did they have to come back? No, I think the vibe is that they're not well liked or she's not. Yeah, I mean, you know, of she's like the the the the the the peasant girl that stole the prince away. And you know, it's like that old trope.

I always settle there. I always say that if they don't last, she's got a Lauren Sanchez and get someone like a Jeff Bezos or somebody. So now she's going to do it like a Sanchez. And I'm not the first person to suggest this, but I do I would not be surprised. She's going to do it like a Sanchez and I'm not the first person to suggest this, but I do I would not be surprised. She's going to do it after Dirty Sanchez. Isn't that like a sex thing? Yeah. What is it though? I think it's like shitting on something. No, she's going to go after the prime minister of Canada.

He's getting divorced. He's getting divorced. I still hot. And he's still hot. He's getting divorced. He's getting divorced. Should I still hot? And he's still hot. He's so hot. I will just say, he's probably like 20 years to old for me. Thurdo? Thurdo?

What is it? Thurdo, what is it? Thurdo. No, he's like 53. That's too old for you now. No, no. I don't think you like him now. I like guys who like me.

You like guys who, what? I like guys who like me now. I like Isaac, like me. You like Isaac, what? I like Isaac, like me. And they just tend to be younger. Anyway. So that's always a possibility. So she's got, I always find those like marriage on the rock stories to be just blatantly untrue. No, no, they are filing.

They filed. Prime Minister of Canada and his wife, Harry, Harry, Megan, getting divorced is just a bunch of made up stories. I mean, I felt like there were a lot of stories about John and Caroline getting divorced before they passed. Right. You know, and it was just so many stuff.

Yeah, it's just all made up stuff, you know, so I'm sensitive to that. I'm like, nobody knows really what's happening. And they accept the two people in the marriage and. You don't want to ask me about that because obviously you were so close to them. And I don't, this is no disrespect. I just want to ask you in my retrospect. And I never saw it until I saw one of the millions of documentaries about them.

Where I'm like, I really do think JFK would have preferred to pursue acting. He wanted to act in college and then you know he couldn't. So then you know he had to go to law school and then he okay I'll come up with this magazine. But like he obviously did. Yeah. Even though he there was always these fights and there was always these fights you know about oh my god leave Caroline alone when they were together. But then there was this one fights, you know, about, oh my God, leave Caroline alone when they were together. But then there was this one thing I saw where someone was going, hey, look,

he went riding his bike shirtless around the city. He lived in a building that with no German, that you could always see him at. And I think he, and there's nothing wrong with liking being recognized in famous. I mean, I like being recognized. I always wanted to be famous. I always wanted to perform as a kid.

I don't think it's a shameful thing to say that you like, that you are an extrovert and you like that. I think honestly, and this is just my opinion, I feel like that kind of stuff, he really tried so hard to be normal. He just, I think that his entire family lived in the Upper East Side. And then he decided to move to Tribeca. He was the only one.

And it was weird in this not nice building with no dormant. He just went, I think in the riding the bike around in the shirtless. I think to a non-New Yorker that just, that seems like nothing. Because it would be different. But I'm saying it would be like if you, if it was like his whole family lived on the upper West Side of New York, whatever. And he moved to South Carolina on the Bayou or whatever. Like that would be like getting away, saying I moved a few blocks down the road to try

back to New Yorker that just seems like that is not a big deal. It is though. It is a big it's like it's like in these tiny little ways, he was declaring his independence from a family that was very entrenched and hierarchical and and and you know you did certain things you went to certain job. I mean starting getting into the press you went to certain jobs. I mean, starting, getting into the press, you know, starting a magazine. I think those are the things he did to do, to maybe as an expression of his artistic.

From, because I, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would, no, I know he did like, I don't think he would, he did acting and stuff and college. He did, he did. And he loved it. And but I think ultimately he probably wouldn't have pursued it, although he, you know, he was a bit of a drama. My when we were in college, like a couple of years at a school, my friends invited me to

go to like a party or whatever. And I never turned a party, dad a party ever. It was like the one time, I'm like, I'm not gonna go to this Christmas party. I'm just too burnt out. And they came back and this is when he was single. And they're like, he was in LA at this great Christmas party. When was that?

90, 90, let's say like 94, 95, okay? 94. And I was just, I was so excited. Like it could have been you. Absolutely. I'm thinking it could have been me. He is my type, whose type is he not? He looked, you know, he Irish Catholic,

my mother was obsessed with the Kennedys and everything. And I literally was about to throw myself off the balcony and then they said, no, we made up the whole thing. He was not the part. They just were like so mad that I didn't go. They're like, who could we say? Oh my god. Those are good friends. So fucking mad. Those are good friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is he about? What do you think about his uncle running?

For present. I don't know what say anything about that. I would not be supporting him. All I can think about is if he did win. No. Cheryl Hines, who I was in the growling's with, would be the first lady. Oh, you'd have an in. Do you still, I mean, I mean, we're kind of friendly.

And now I feel like she's laying very low. Like, I don't even know if she's doing her podcast anymore because I'm like, oh, she had a podcast. Yeah, but it was like silly with TIG and they would like talk about documentaries and like they're just like funny. It was never she was never being, she was never sharing anything personal. Like my podcast is so personal, like everything I've ever said, if I was over to run to office, you know, be used against me.

But like, I think she's like, let a pretty like safe normal life. And then it's his wife, but he'll be very interesting out there. I mean, is there a chance? I don't think there's a, there's a, I mean, who knows? I know. Who knows? Country is gone nuts, nuts, nuts, nuts.

Carol, is there any say? We can talk about Barbie. Did you love the movie? I mean, I love the movie. I was great. I didn't know what to expect and I was really happy. I took my seven year old nephew, who loved it for a different reason.

But like, I didn't know what's about the patriarchy. Like I didn't know nothing. I just wore pink. I was like, everyone's wearing pink. I wore pink. I mean, what I think is cool is that if you did take a younger person, they still might enjoy it. And they're not gonna get a bad message,

but they may not get the full message, but they're not gonna get a bad message. But I may not get the full message, but they're not gonna get a bad message. But I think for young girls, like I think even if they ask, Mommy, what's the patriarchy? Like, that's big. That's, they're doing their job then. I mean, I thought it was,

I was just blown away by it. I mean, it was funny. It was, it was, I mean, there's just so many things that like, as a woman and the last man hated it. Even about the last like, you know, a few years of like me too and sexual harassment and stuff that me, I would be like, well, we just put up with it. I'm like, and the reason, and that's why it was because we live in a patriarchal society. That's why I went on so

long. I want to old man would flirt with you at work or say, yeah, you would just giggle because you were so embarrassed for that old fucker that thought he had any chance with you. And there was no outlet for you to complain without getting fired. Like the 90s, like when we came of age in the workforce, it was the first generation of young women and mass that went into corporate America.

Like my mom was like in the 70s and they were like making all these breakthroughs, but less in mass. And suddenly it was like, you know, I was at ABC News and it was like, it was like the men were there thinking, oh my God, like now they don't have to go to the bar after like the girls are right there down the hall and like, you didn't have to go to happy hour. It was just they didn't know how to behave. And we didn't know to go to happy hour it was just they didn't know how to behave.

And we didn't know any different right like there was a lot of touching and inappropriate talk and fondling and handling and like and right we've been like okay I do see an unfortunate flip side of what's gone down. I mean the 90s was brutal women today they would do young girls today if they were going into that workforce. Yeah. I mean, they would faint. I think something that somebody that no one wants to talk about,

but I do think it's true. And I've heard people tell me is unfortunately now, it's like, if you're going to hire someone and you're going to, maybe you, you have a, you know, financial, whatever with mostly guys, you're going to almost, you know, ten years ago, you would have picked the woman now. have a financial, whatever with mostly guys, you're gonna almost, you know, 10 years ago, you would have picked the woman now. You're like, I can't control these fuckers 24, seven.

And even though you're the better candidate, Jennifer. Right. I mean, I wonder if I've got, and God forbid you're like attractive and stuff. Yeah. Well, that's because we still live in this world where men are in charge. And when it was like, but not even with reverse. Yeah, but like my friend works at HR and it's like literally the only way that a company

will not get in trouble. Yeah. If something sexually happens is if the man and the woman for Friday, et cetera, is if the man and the woman from Friday and Tetero, the man and the women were both hired the exact same day. They had the exact same position. They made the exact amount. If they fuck, company's okay. But if one comes, well, what if they got together

but then one of them complained, even if it was mutual, if they break up, then the subordinate can just say, it wasn't, well, I mean, my, my husband at work, we, we were the same level and, you know, now like, what you have to do is he was actually a little above me. So, okay, so now that was today. And he want like, he would have you'd have to you'd have to go together and say and you'd have to sign a thing saying, I absolutely want to fuck this man. Like I am willing even though he was here a day longer than me. He made this much more. Yeah, ahead of me. And then oftentimes I ask my friend in HR,

she goes, and I go, what do you tell? And she goes, I advise the senior person, unless you think like you're going to marry this person. You don't do it. You should not do it. And it's just a bummer because that's where people are at your spouse. You meet the spouse at work.

And now everyone's so afraid. Yeah, that's like that's the other flip kind of bummer side of it too, is like, I mean, the Ken and Michelle's definitely swung way far in the other direction. But I mean, there needed to be a correction. Carol, let everyone know if they're not following you at already what you're up to and where they can follow you. Well, I'm still on Instagram and

I'm so sure named yeah, it's just my name. Okay great. I mean New New Shazards you books. I have my That's still working on my third I'm very I'm in a I'm just into a really good place. I mean, I'm so it's just a great Feeling to have made it almost right like you just made it, I'm so, uh, it's just a great, um, feeling to have made it almost, right? Like you just made it. Like I'm turning 60 and people are just bringing out. And I'm like amazing. And it's gorgeous. And it's like, um, they don't tell you all the fun things about getting older. Like you're, you're still like, uh, you know, you could be 60 and still be a dumb

bitch, right? Like that saying that one of another podcaster, she said you can stop me. You don't really don't appreciate talking about me like this. Yeah, yeah. But, but, but you have so much wisdom and context and, yeah. And if you still have a child like Wonder Man and Curiosity, which, which I do, you, it, it's great. Like, it's so much fun being older. It's like when you were 11 and you really wanted to be older and you wanted to be 13 and

why did we want to be as kids want to be older? Now I get it. It's really cool to be older. That's cool. Right. So I like getting older too. Carol, thank you so much. you