Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald - Work Place Affairs, Jimmy Kimmel, Fat Shaming

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

Big announcement! I am going on tour! Get tickets at heathermcdonald.net  The new Little Mermaid live-action trailer is out, and the reactions on TikTok are priceless. I watched the Emmys and have much to say about Jimmy Kimmel and the fashions. Britney fat-shamed Christina Aguilera’s backup dancers. I will update you on what's happening at Windsor Castle since the Queen’s passing. The Bravo Con schedule is out, and it seems like a Family Feud rip-off. Sherri Papini was sentenced to 8 months. Then Jamie Fiore Higgins is here to talk about her book Bully Market. She talks about her experience as a woman who worked on Wall Street at Goldman Sachs. She addresses the toxic work culture and how it impacted her personal life leading her to do things she never thought she would. So juicy!  Subscribe on Apple Podcasts to get exclusive Extra Juicy episodes every Friday and get all episodes of Juicy Scoop, ad-free Or get access to Extra Juicy on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/juicyscoop To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Head of McDonald has got the juices scoop. When you're on the road, when you're on the go. Juice is scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales. Her real life, Mr. Sanctuary, real data and serial system. You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one tab on real life hot cat. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo, and a McDonald.

Juicy scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Gonna go through all the topics. And then I have a great interview that you're really gonna love that has a lot of juice in it. So let's get right into it. Guys, I just have to talk about Britney's latest post

because it's caused a lot of controversy. She did a quote card on her Instagram that said, I found there was only one way to look thin. Hang out with fat people. Rodney, danger field, picture quotes. Now, you're like, who the hell is that from the young people? He was a very funny comedian that actually didn't even really make it until he was in his late 50s. He was a very funny comedian that actually didn't even really make it until he was in his late 50s. He was very self-deprecating and he was very popular in the 80s. Okay, so already it's out of touch of a joke, but you know, an original joke at the time. I had a friend who had a big huge black comer and she was single and I'm like, why do you need such a big car and she's like

how do you don't know how thin I look when I come out of it at the valet. So I get the idea. But she went on to then under it say this which is just not good. Going on she just repeats a lot of herself which is the right to do about the shit that she went through the last 13 years. I wish I could have chosen my nannies for my children also wish I could have chosen my dancers. I mean, if I had Christina Aguilera's dancers, I would have looked extremely small, three dancing ladies emojis. I mean, why not talk about it? Because you're going to see why.

Don't you think my confidence would have been a bit better if I could choose where I lived, eight, whom I called on the phone, dated, and who I was on stage with me? It's hard sometimes. Now I see how much of my womanhood was stripped. Okay. So she goes on immediately. I wasn't surprised to see this because I think, you know what? I think she's getting to a place a lot of women do.

She's not like the way she looks right now. Listen. Your body changes. When you're a teenager, when you go through puberty, when you have kids, when you go after kids, I was probably the thinnest when I was working full-time, coming home at 7.45 at night, putting my kids into a bath, and I would just skip dinner. I was like, oh my god, I look pretty good. I look better now. It all changes. So, I think she wasn't feeling great about her that herself that day. And then in her mind, well, people are like, what the hell, including Christina Aguilar was like, what the hell is happening? She unfollows her. She's pissed. And people

bring up photos of Christina Aguilar and her dancers. And her dancers were more curvy size dancers. Okay, and I don't, but we don't body shame, girl. This is very unpopular right now. So what she was saying was sort of factual, but so she gets wind of it that people aren't pleased with her. And then she does an apology and she didn't even get it. She's like, I'm not calling Christina fat like she's beautiful she's my friend left you girl were like no you were calling her fat you're calling her dancers fat it's not

good here's the thing we can talk about Christina and Britney but the the thing is Britney is is suffering and she needs therapy and she needs to get to a place where she has other things going on her life besides Instagram. That's my opinion. She doesn't have a publicist. She has no one controlling it and she still didn't even really get what she should apologize over. So, but you know, I just want to say Brittany, if you ever go on tour, do not be stealing Lizzo's dancers because they're very happy to go on tour with her. Okay, this was so sweet, you guys.

Um, I have been obsessed with the TikTok videos of parents showing their young black daughters and some of their sons. And even older women, I saw someone show their like grandma and aunt, the opening trailer scene to the Little Mermaid, which is the new live action Little Mermaid, Starling, Starling, Halle Bailey, not Halle Berry, Halle Bailey. And she's a beautiful girl with an incredible voice. And it is so cute. So it's called a blind reaction. You can look it up. And little girls are usually familiar with with Dithni and with this show. So they're kind of like, what is this? And anyone we were talking about this and Annie goes I mean how do these little girls don't know that you know that they've changed it to a black you know

that they've changed it to a black, verbate, I'm like, I'm sorry, I guess the four-year-olds weren't listening to Juicy Scoop seven months ago when the news came out. But anyway, it is really sweet, and it really shows people that as especially a little person, people always have a problem with Disney because the stories are about,

oh, I don't want my daughter to grow up thinking that she can marry a prince or it's so patriarchal. It's a fairy tale. And if you're a good parent, your child can enjoy fairy tales. And Little Mermaid is a fairy tale about a girl who is half fish, okay? So when there was a big problem with it going from a drawn girl who had red hair to now a live action girl who was black. I mean, and people freaked out about it. It was so stupid.

Because I'm like, I love when they remake classic stories. Like, don't break it. If there's a classic story that everyone loves, remake it every 10 years with different characters. Well, not definitely characters, because that wouldn't be a remake. But like, you could add a little, maybe a new character, you can modernize it,

you can make it fun, and you can make it that the girl or the boy is a different, from a different culture. And I think that's super fun. And then they showed a little white girl, and she was just as excited about watching the little mermaid. So it's really cute,

and I'm sure it's making everybody really thrilled. And,, and then I said I'd talk about a woman going, but Disney's going to make all this money. And are they going to give the money to the black community afterwards? I'm like, what? This is a movie. And they're providing entertainment, providing you want to buy a ticket. Or I'm sure you'll be able to stream in a month later on Disney plus so like why then do Like yeah, the profits go. I don't know. I don't understand that the point is people are excited It's really fun to watch this reaction. I think she's an absolute gorgeous voice. I'm excited to see it There are some people who are

naturally born redheads that are marching the streets. And so, hey, why not make beauty in the beast remake that one and make that girl a redhead? I don't know. As a brown-haired, brown-eyed girl who had a sister who was blonde, haired, and blue-eyed, yes, all the Disney characters, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty. What was some of the other ones? No white was black hair. I couldn't relate to her. Also, I was not into hanging out with seven old men. Okay. So, I was never into that story. But I liked Beauty and the Beast because she was brown-haired and I like to yell yellow dress, but I'm like, I don't want to marry an animal.

I don't care how rich you are. I'm not into it. So I was always looking for a princess I could relate to and I never really could. So I might relate to this little mermaid too because I love to swim. So I'm going to probably watch this one and really enjoy it. So it's very cool. It's just it's just so cute. Look it up. You'll it'll make you happy. Okay, let me get into the Emmys. I watched the Emmys. I didn't expect to watch them. I love that they came on in LA early because I that's so that was perfect and it moves quicker. It felt hipmer. It was cool to see all these like movie stars like Reese Wizards Boone and stuff because they're all basically on TV now doing these

limited series and so Sheryl Lee Ralph won for Abbott Elementary which is this show that got a lot of awards and about a public's working in a public school and under an underfunded public school and it's a big head. It's on ABC. Anyway, she won for supporting actress. And when she won, you know, she appeared to be like she was absolutely shell shocked. It took her so long to walk up to the stage. And what's nice is they must have known what she was going to do and then you ever was going to do because then you could submit. You're like and these are the people I want to thank in case I miss it or in case I want to sing a song. So she sang an original song that she wrote about how she's an endangered woman but she's not going to sing a victim song and she has a really

good voice and it was like wow great. Later on I was watching TikTok and I saw her two actual kids in the audience in the back being like mommy one now i hope there there are two actual kids and not just kids that want to be adopted by her but she did mention she had two kids and this tiktok i believe was from their perspective and they were like so excited that their mom one and she thanked her kids and her husband and everybody in her life and i just want to say if i win

best podcast from a single female comedian host, because I do believe in the next five years, there will be an actual kind of a big deal podcast awards. So I'm secreting it and I'm secreting when I'm going to win. And I'm going to come up and sing a probably an original song, but let's just say I sang somewhere over the rainbow since that's what I sang when I was doing the day in my sorority where we did a play, which was Wizard of Oz and I was Dorothy. Anyway, I am going to warn my sons I will be singing that original song because if I just came out and did that instead of being like oh my god thank you to everyone that listened to my show I just came out and I was like somewhere over the rainbow is juicy scoop there's a podcast to listen to that makes you feel like you might want a poop

one day I wish upon a microphone. So if I just came up with that, I would want them to make sure that they were prepared for that embarrassment. Anyway, good for her. She's worked a long time and she was the first black actress in 35 years to win best supporting. And she's been in a lot of shows. She's super talented, good for her. Mindy Kaling looked gorgeous and I loved what she said because I didn't even think about this. She came out with BJ Novak and their bit was, we're kind of pissed because when we were doing the office,

we had to do 22 episodes a year for the category of series. Now these series are eight episodes long, Mike White, who did White Lotus and you can go off to Hawaii in a pandemic and film something with 20 people in your bubble, and everyone can go back and do other movies, and they're not, you know, they don't sign a contract for seven years. So like, you guys have it real easy. And I thought that was so funny, and I really believe like Mindy wrote that because

she's so funny. But anyway, she looked gorgeous. That was great. Pete Davidson wore a Kanye West outfit and came out in glasses, sunglasses, and was actually kind of funny because he was self-deprecating and said really nice things about Kenan, who was the host of the show and really kept the show moving from SNL.

This pissed me off. Jimmy Kimmel. So Jimmy Kimmel was in the category of best late-night talk show host, along with John Stewart and Trevor Noah, I think, all guys, you know, who else, Jimmy Fallon, Steph, but I don't know. They were all nominated. Anyway, he didn't win. John Oliver won. stuff but i don't know they're all nominating anyway he didn't win um... john Oliver one i mean i guess it wasn't john strut john Oliver one and because he didn't win then when he had agreed to

uh... do a presenting uh... thing with uh... will aren't that he's like oh won't the world find this funny that i've never won and therefore they should feel sorry for me and it's such a travesty. So I'm going to lay on the ground and will not will. You pull me like I'm a dead person and I'm going to lay down and I'm not going to participate in what I was contracted to do is read the bit, the nominees for this category. I thought it was so rude and so annoying. I'm

so sick of Jimmy Kimmel. I'm so sick of him crying on, you know, ever about once a month he cries on his show. I don't know. I don't watch it. He's never going to ask me to be on it, especially after now. So who the fuck cares? Okay. So, this is for best writer of a, I believe, pilot or an episode or a show. Okay, the girl who created the show and wrote it and stars in it, the Abbot Elementary, Quinta Bronson, who's beautiful, black, and like, the her story is like it took four years, she had an idea like, this is everything I can relate to except my pilots never got picked up. But to star in it, to come up with a concept to write it she wins. Looking gorgeous comes up there.

He's doing his dumb bit. He didn't pop up and be like congrats and walk away. He laid there. He pulled a fricking Kanye and he laid there. So then she had to go stand there and go high and do her speech and so rude and so annoying especially really Jimmy Kimmel like let's just let's just be woke for a minute. You know a black female wins for writing and a show that's got like one four other Emmys and is a hit and on your network ABC and you the white male male who was handed this show like 10 years ago, who got in trouble for doing blackface, and had to go away and do these, that's like, maybe you didn't know that she was gonna win,

maybe you thought something else was gonna win and it would have worked out better. You're an asshole, you should have her on your show and you should straight up apologize if it's not already in the works. She was really classy about it. She's not being mad also because she's on ABC so she's you know playing it right and she's like it's not a big deal.

I'm happy to win who cares. And also she's smart. Why why use her time in answering questions by like starting a beef with him. It's not worth it. It's not necessary to the show she plays a teacher she's being a classy teacher so uh... hated that moment uh... zendaya one i love sorry sorry don't cancel me you know i have a problem with the age but you know i loved uforia and i watch both seasons

i believe i can speak on the fact that I'm thrilled that she won. She plays a Rue who is a girl who struggles with pill addiction as a teenager. And her speech with stunning, she's like, if you were, if you are a Rue, if you've loved a Rue, I love hearing your stories. I've chills thinking about it. She looks absolutely stunning. She's extremely tiny person. And the dress she chose was absolutely perfect, very like breakfast, activities, classic black strapless and beautiful hair. And she just she looked great. So good for her.

Lizzo to wore a fabulous dress, big, big fabulous red dress, and she won her Emmy for her show, a dance competition show about what is it called? Watch out for the big girls, about girls that are not size two that are excellent dancers, and she's picking them to be on tour with her, and now they're gonna go on their own dance tour of these girls.

One thing I notice though and we all love Lizzo but it took a lot of time for her in her big dress that took up a lot of space to get up there. Then she's calling out to her girls telling them to come down. Thank God they didn't because that would have also taken more time. I just noticed for her the music never played to Shufflelar off. You know who the music did play to shuffle her off? Jennifer Coolidge, who's been in this business forever. I knew her from the growling.

She was always so fricking nice. I talk about another fabulous supportive person that I know from the growlings, like Lisa Kudrow. The day I found out I was no longer going to be in the company because they voted. Before she knew the results, she called me, I was going longer going to be in the company because they voted before she knew the results She called me I was gonna I was gonna go rollerblading and because I didn't know if I was gonna go Make it to the main company and she called me and she's like, you know what Heather You're so freaking talented. I don't know I voted for you, but if you don't go

Any further who gives a fuck? You know people that stand that theater get weird. It was so encouraging and I went and rollerblade it and like She's just a great great person and she handled her speech great But she was the music went and she couldn't say everything she wanted to say and I'm just saying I get it You're the director you got to save the minutes for the people and who doesn't love Lizzo and her dress was great You know his dressed wasn't great? What is this girl's name? Julia Garner, one for best supporting.

She was also nominated, which would have been amazing if she went for both. But she was also naming for, nominate for inventing Anna in the lead role of a drama. And this was for Ozarks. She won. This is an awful dress, okay? It was velvet, which made no sense that then she had a cut out, a diamond cut out on her stomach.

Now she has a great stomach. She's pale, I don't mind that. It's a flat, tiny, non-surgical, perfect little belly button. You know when you see those weird belly buttons, because you know They got like a tummy tuck note. This is like solid thin this girl knew how to do some crunches I just it's an awful awful look, okay

Gerard Carmichael one for his best stand-up Special and I think it's great. You won again not a fan of the outfit It was about 90 degrees out that night and he chose to wear a big white fur. I'm assuming it's faux I don't know where pita is You know why aren't they angry about this fur and no shirt Just nips out to the world to see also would have been a problem if he was a girl But whatever nips out no shirt and a fur He won.

I felt it was very like little Nas-ish, like, come on. He's gay and not that that matters, but I just felt like, you know, it was like, hey, I'm going to really be me right now, which is great. And congrats on winning. My girl from Haxe1, Jean Smart, she is the best body. I mean, I don't even know how old she is, but this body is so good and I loved her dress. It was off the shoulders, white, it was fitted, it was long sleeve. I didn't love the color on her.

I'll say that. If she was my friend, I'd be like, this cut is perfect, but I just think white washed her out a little. Okay? cut is perfect, but I just think white washed her out a little. Okay. Seth Meyers and Amy Polar did an awful bit that wasn't funny at all. Sorry, not funny. Connie Britton, you guys, I loved this coral pink color on her. It was like a strapless dress with a cape. And I think you should have the cape.

Someone said, you know what? You're wearing this beautiful cape that cover your shoulders. You shouldn't wear your hair down. You should put it back. No, Connie, Britain, no, and no, and no. Connie, Britain, for the rest of your career, okay, you need to wear your hair down at these events. Your hair is gorgeous. It makes you, I'm sorry, like, it just just I don't think you look that great with your hair back. Angela Bassett oh that body yellow dress with like a sequence bod bodice stunning she looks so good that's it for the Emmys it really nothing more to talk about um but it was good I liked it I didn't expect to like it I liked it the queen is getting I don't even know where we are in this thing.

It's like a lot of days. It's a lot of comments. I said on Tuesday show that if Megan Markle was not being well received, it could be that, you know, people weren't happy with the way she spoke about the monarchy in the last year and a half when she's talked to Opraha and what came from that i have to make for that really how that you don't think it's because andrew's perv no i totally think it's because prince andrew's a perv and claim that he didn't sweat i mean of course i think he's guilty of course you know and grossed out i just

i guess i'm not i just forgot to say it you know and for all those being in Markle fans, good. I'm glad you're happy to see her. She looks beautiful. There's TikToks of her being very nice to people, and there's ones where she's like annoyed, and like, didn't like the flowers some handed her. People can nitpick it. There's body language experts. I don't care. She wore the pearls, pearls the Queen Gamer and I think that's what you do you wear the jewelry of someone who that Queen gave you I wear this ring every day it was my grandmother's and then it was my mother's so I like a princess I definitely think where the jewels of

the people who pass that that love you and you know it'll be a beautiful ceremony people are being mean about King Charles that he has fat sausage fingers also that he doesn't like the pens that people hand him. So it's going to be a lot of that. Like I said I'm just like whatever. You know obviously she couldn't get her podcast out this week so I don't know what the rest of you guys are doing. Good thing I'm here to pick up the slack. Okay, so let's move on. Oh, okay, Sister Wives, you guys.

Yes, the show is boring and I can't stop watching it. I've told you about this. The first episode is out. They still are talking about COVID and basically Christine breaks up with Cody who is so awful. And Cody, she's like, I just, I don't want to be around you anymore. You said you never want to have sex with me. We probably haven't had sex in 10 years and you don't and you said the future is a knot

he goes. A lot of people are in non-romantic marriages and they make it work. I don't know what the hell her problem is. Yeah, but those people don't already also have three otherwise, one of which who they are boaning, which is Robin. And she's like, I de facto that there's no hope. I'm just not freaking into it anymore. I never liked it.

I had to have my own kids watch all the other kids in the day. And then I would go and work at night because I had to bring in an income. And I would ask you, can you come and just put our kids to bed? And you were like, no, I've got other wives. Well, at that time, they were all living in one big house. Like, he could just walk down the hall and put the two kids to sleep that she shared with them. So, she started having resentment way back when and she is out and he is just a dick.

Like people like he's such a narcissist. Oh, you think he has four wives and a TV show and cameraman falling around him around for the last 12 years. Yeah, he's a narcissist. And he's like, I just don't want you getting some other husband that's going to try to take our money and see my kids. So promise me you won't do that.

And she's like, I promise. You got a girl after her name Robin adopted her kids, made wife number one, divorced you so that she could be the only legally married wife, and then adopt her kids. And you're like, yeah, you better not have a guy come around my kids. He is the worst. Can't stop watching it. Bravo, con, you guys, is coming. I'm so happy that you knew to get the tickets to my show.

I've got Carlos King who's got all the juicy scoop. And he is my guest and I'm gonna bring it all and I'm going to be there right down the street from where Bravo Con is at the juicy scoop. And he is my guest, and I'm gonna bring it all, and I'm going to be there right down the street from where Brawavikana is at the palladium, October 15th. If it's not sold out yet, I think I'm like down to probably like 50 tickets. I would definitely get those tickets, whether you're gonna Brawavikana or not,

because I'll be recapping all the juice that's happened, and they talk about all the stuff that's going on. There's a lot of things happening on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, there's the three days. And Holly would like just posted all the different panels and stuff that you can go to. It's different than it was three years ago. It was definitely more exclusive three years ago.

They couldn't sell as many tickets. Now it's like just, you know, I think it's almost like when you go to like a convention, like a Comic Con really, and you can go to all these different things. So I assume there's going to be definitely a couple happening at the same time in which you'll have to choose. But basically, it's a lot of putting these panels together. And some people have agreed to do like six or seven panels others You got to see them that one time because they're a legend, okay?

So there's like here are some of them Bravo family night. That's like Candies family The this you know versus Dolores his family a lot of family feud type of game stuff is what they're doing with these these panels Every housewife franchise will have their own panel with the cast and then they kind of mix up people. There's a Bravo crew night. There's Bravo to Bravo, which is like all different people. Josh Altman, Golnesa, Shep, Daisy, and they play games. There's a Bravo's most golden moment out, Power Hour. That's like with the legends, like with Jill Zaren and you know,, the people that really started it. Write the relationship.

Those are the biggest flirts. All the single people talk about like Vicky Govison talk about like their horrible relationships and their funny stories, okay? I assume. Modern love is with everyone's favorite couples. So Amanda Kyle, Melissa Jo, Lindsey and Carl, Ariana and Thomas. They're still together. There's a rumor that Ariana, Tom from Vanderpump, are on the rocks. Okay. Jersey boys, all the Jersey house husbands, million dollar listing guys, East Coast versus

West Coast knowledge of Bravo, lots of games and stuff like that. Some are house people, then there's a second legends panel, then there's the battle of the sexes so just a lot of ripping off old game shows but it's fine we have a lot of fun with it Bravo Bravo fucking Bravo is Bravo they call it the way it was described was Bravo super fans like Mercedes Whitney Rose and Tamara judge their super anyway. They get tested on their Bravo knowledge, because I guess they love all the other shows, which we know, I guess that's a pretty good idea. Jersey, the Jersey housewives, housewife to housewife where they like, one from each, like one on one or more than one from different houses,

from different cities, talk to each other. Bravo BFF, so two Bravo stars that are BFFs, play a game against another brawl bff everything is basically games so uh... if you want to come in the juice you're gonna come to my show the live to scuba saturday night

which i don't think it conflicts with anything from what i've told from the schedule so like i said if you're coming you should be thrilled if you haven't get your tickets now and uh... because after, I don't know what you're going to do with yourself. Oh, latest on Sherry Papini. Remember her? She was the asshole that faked her own kidnapping so she could hang out with a boyfriend who she claims she didn't even screw people said Heather they found his DNA on her underwear but it wasn't like sperm it would could have been like he touched her he said

that she never slept with them and she just like use this guy to have the world worry about her then she showed up and acted like she was shackled like a justy, you know, justy small, right before Thanksgiving, that Wednesday before Thanksgiving. But oh my god, I heard from so many people that said they met their husband, that Wednesday before Thanksgiving in their hometown at the local bar. I don't know what she was playing

to, but she came home that Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Okay, so then she comes home, everyone's like, oh my god, thank you, Audrey's found. But people were like, this is so weird. Turns out it was all set up for attention. She's a weirdo, and the husband is divorcing her, and prosecutors are seeking eight months in prison for everything that she put us through.

She also has to pay back like the $40,000,000 that she got from like a victim's fund that happens where the state pays you if got from a victim's fund that happens where the state pays you if you're a victim of a crime. And then also, I think there were some go-fund me's and some personal money and stuff that just makes her look like a horrible person. She's a photo of her going to court and she's very thin and definitely not as cute as she used to be and

one-assault so we'll see i think eight months is that very appropriate time i wonder if anyone remembers what i predicted i know i predicted something short like this for her time but i don't know what it was i think it was but it eight i think eight months honestly is appropriate i don't really think she should get more than that. So I hope she gets it, does it, gets some therapy why she's in there.

Okay, you guys, I'm going to see you this Friday in St. Paul, this Saturday in Chicago with Justin Martenail, and then the following weekend, I'll be in Seattle and Portland with Chris Frenjolla. I've got a bunch of weekends including Vegas, of course. East Coast, Texas, you want to get these tickets. This is my fall tour. It is all live juicy scoops. All the meat and greets happen immediately after the show. Literally, like I'll go get a sip of water, come out

and we'll start the meat and greet. That's how it works. And the meat and greet tickets are a limited number. So if it's sold out, it's sold out. Please come to the show and get your tickets because the tickets, the shows will sell out as well. And I'm not going to be adding a bunch of second shows. The only second show I added was Dallas, Texas so far. And I don't know that I'll be adding anymore. So please get your tickets now. HeatherRittall.net joined the Patreon in joy. And now for a great interview, this is an author of a book called Bully Market. This is for anybody that's ever been in a high-stress

job, married kids. It really, there's such a life lesson in all of this and it's a great book but we had a super juicy interview and even some surprises I did not know were coming that I was like, uh, you came to the right place to share this scoop girl. Enjoy. What goes great with the summer vibe? How about a checking account with no monthly fees? Like a cool breeze chime, is there a checking account with no monthly fees? Like a cool breeze, chime is a refreshing way to handle your money. With no monthly fees, no maintenance fees, or minimum balance fees, it's how banking

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Sign up for a chime checking account, which only takes two minutes and doesn't affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com slash juicy. That's chime.com slash juicy. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided by and debit card issued by BandCorp Bank or Stride Bank. NA members FDIC out of network ATM withdrawal fees apply except money pass ATM in an X711 location and at any all point or visa plus alliance ATM. Other fees such as a third party and cash deposit fees may apply. So I have a real juicy book and I'm excited to speak to the author about it and get all the scoop. The book is called Bully Market and I'm here with the author Jamie Fiore Higgins.

Welcome to juicy scoop. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. So, basically I think I saw like a, a New York Post or something about it and really intrigued me. And that you were in the whole Wall Street stock market world, which doesn't have a lot of women in it. And just from seeing what we saw like in the great movie Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street, and everything we kind of know about being like a man's business, I just wanted you to kind of tell me exactly like what, not exactly, but really just give it the juice.

What happened? What is your advice? What is this book about? All of it. All right. So where should we start? Like how did you get into such like a male driven business and did you find it difficult or did you just always excel in math and that kind of the way that the brain works?

So funny enough, it's not really what I ever wanted to do. I wanted to be a social worker. You know, growing up, I had a lot of health issues and really benefited from my kind doctors and you know that kind of support work therapists. So that's really what I wanted to do. And my parents were basically like no way. She's always said every generation has got to do better. You got to move the family forward. So in 1998, you wanted to make money, you went to Wall Street. And I went to this small liberal arts college called Brynmar and Goldman happened to recruit there. And I went to an event there one night. And it was so fancy because it was at the alumni house and there were canopies and cocktails.

And there was a super sharp, amazing, gorgeous woman who took the stage. And she was so smart, but she was also really kind. And I didn't even know what Goldman Sachs did at the time, but I was enamored with her. And I went home and I called my mom, and I'm like, I don't think, I don't know what Goldman Sachs does, but I really want to work there.

And then I did my research, and I had 40 interviews to get the job. Wow. It's like, they really run you through the gauntlet. So I interviewed on campus, then at the local office, which was Philadelphia, and then I had a super day. And I was so happy I got the job because it was just the job everyone wanted. And I was making my family so proud.

Right? So yeah, so that's kind of how I got there. And then early on, I started to really see that maybe the woman I met on campus was one of those paid spokespeople that wasn't really there. Because I kind of envisioned this Goldman Sachs being this kind of uppercrossed and pinky raised with tea. I don't know. It just seemed like this very fancy posh place.

And I was kind of dropped into this like locker room, you know, with a lot of what I call like the white noise of Wall Street, just comments on women's press size and leg length and there are butt and how good it looks. And I was kind of like, where the hell did I go? Because I went to a woman's college too. So I kind of, although I didn't rush for sorority,

we were kind of one big sorority. So it was very weird going from being where I was with women all the time to being one of the few women in the room. I was like really approved, like coming into Goldman. I mean, they used to joke, they used to call call me sister Jamie because they would just like make jokes in fact There was a woman I worked with a couple years older and she was always off the desk like so we you've seen wolf of wall street Or boiler room, you know, there's big long rows of workstations and I kept getting calls and I kept filling out the wall. You were outslips. And I see, you know, I hope she's so and so's okay. And the guys that goes, she's out of

fucking XYZ at the hotel down the street. How else does she win the business? And I was just like, oh my god. So wait, so she did what you did, but she did to get clients, she would sleep with them. Absolutely. Yeah. And then that's when one of the guys is like, don't you know Jamie, sex gets you further on Wall Street than any Ivy League diploma? And so it definitely felt like as a woman, we were almost like Barbie dolls that they played with.

So I was like, none Barbie, sister Jamie, and then she was kind of like the slut who slept, and we were all like these archetypes almost in this kind of man's world, which was funny because they were all kind of being themselves together, having a great time. Now knowing about the girl that slept with the people to get the clients,

like, are you like, oh, thank God, I don't have to do that. Thank God I don't have the morality to put the clients. Like, are you like, oh, thank God, I don't have to do that. Thank God I don't have the morality to put myself in that position. Do you like good for you, girl? Use every asset you have. Like, what's your added or are you disgusted? You know, I feel like if you were to ask me today,

I feel a little more like empowerment with it. But back then, I was just like, it was just like, it was just like, it was just like ill, right? Like I was just like ill. And the shame is Heather. She was super smart. Like she had everything she needed without that. So it kind of was more frustrating to me that this organization rewarded that or encourage that. rewarded that or encourage that. Or is she smart and she's like, what do I, if I gotta think about something for a half hour or why I have sex with you

and then get your huge account and get to do what I really like doing, investing it, like I am smart for doing that. What the hell do I care? Or like knowing, or kind of knowing, I always say with the Harvey, all the Harvey Weinstein stuff and everything. I'm always like, where's the woman that comes forward now at like 60 and says, yeah, 20, you know, 30 years ago

or whatever, I knew the only way I was gonna get this great part was to sleep, you know, sleep with the producer. Once the world saw as a good actress, I never had to sleep with the producers again, but I knew there's no way I'm gonna get it just by auditioning. So it's like, I'm kinda like, I always want, I actually really would love to hear

from women that actually say that. And they're like, and not that they, and hopefully today, and hopefully you guys don't have to do that today because we've exposed it, but I did have to do it back then. And 100% and what I think about my reaction then, having the years since I've been gone, the process of writing the book, and also not thinking about things as a 46 year old woman, not a 22 year old woman,

to say, you know what, she made the decision she made. And to your point, you know what, maybe in her estimation, this is what she needed to get ahead. Goldman's really good. Like, I always say, I started off my career and I was really, really good at numbers. And I worked really, really hard. But as I got more senior, I was really good at keeping my mouth shut, really good at keeping my mouth shut.

So it started off early on when one of the women who I meant for it, and I would be kind of like the poster child, oh yeah, you can have it all at Goldman Sachs, and one of the women who I meant for it started having a real hard. And one of the women who I mentored started having a real hard time with some of the guys who didn't like her and just had it in for her and basically drove all her business away from her. Basically called clients and said, she's on our list.

Don't do business with her. And then what happened was her volume started going down and therefore her performance started going down. She complained, I tried to support her, she quit. I was happy. She ended up suing or someone sued, I think it was her. And my partner, the senior guy was like, she's saying that these two guys, excuse me, made her life hell.

And I said, they did. And then the next thing you know when she sued, my partner said, oh did. And then the next thing you know, when she sued my partner said, oh, outside counsel's gonna call, they wanna know from you what it's like to be a working woman at Goldman Sachs that you're not gonna say anything, because I'm about to promote you.

And then you'll really get paid. So what's negative to say about that? So I didn't say a thing. So like what's, what's like you're attitude now because sometimes I'm thinking in the world of like there is no hazing anymore, you know, there and sometimes with the hazing back in the sorority and fraternity days, it really doesn't bond you just like a boot camp. I mean, it does bond you. It does it does weed out the people that aren't into it. And but I get in this society we look around

and we're like, that's awful, but at the same time, I mean, maybe those layers are what does make someone a really successful investment banker or stockbroker or whatever. So like what do you think about it now looking back of how it could be done better or some things that should stay or what. Listen, I think their focus on attention to detail is like super, super

important. So I think you can still have the expectations for incredible work ethic and incredible production, but I think you can get that without the shame component. Right. You know what I mean? I think you can have super high expectations for like nailing different projects, but I don't know if it's necessary to like lock you out of the door that you're like banging on the door, you know, and like shaming people. So I think there's a way that you can still require excellence, but I think at the end of the day, most people are motivated more by out of boys than oh shit. So I think there's a way that you can still get

that best response and best production without the shaming piece. And then I also think the whole shaming piece around your appearance or your interests is like really not necessary. How would they do that? Well, I mean, you know, in my experience, I found that if your values aligned with whoever's in the glass office, which is what you would expect,

like kind of a, you know, a heterosexual white male, like you're good, but if you have different, you know, a heterosexual white male, like you're good, but if you have different, you know, if you have different interests, you know, watch out. So for example, I wanted to pump for my kids, you know, I was basically told, no, because it's a waste of time though it's okay if you leave your desk to get your hair cut or your shoe shined, right? Right. And then, and then when I actually had the guts with my fourth kid to hump, they moved at me, put stuff cows on my desk, put milk cartons on my desk. You know, there's kind of like stupid little image or crap.

And what year was it? What year was that they were doing that? 2016. Wasn't that long ago? I'm just shocked that like, if someone wasn't like, hey dude, like, what the fuck? Like your wife is home doing this, why can't she? Like, I just can't believe it.

I, you know, like I always wonder in all this like sexual harassment stories and stuff. I'm like, you know, the people that we never hear about is the guys that do tell the other guys, like knock it off, Dick. Was there anybody like that that was like, you know, cause once someone, once their peer tells them, like, yeah, you're reading a creak. Can you back the fuck away from her?

It always seems that seems to really work the best. And so I always say, hey, if you're a guy listening to this and you see it happening, be that guy for your female coworker before it gets to a place of HR and someone having to quit or whatever. Did you experience any of that? So not enough. I'm not going to say there were none, but what I found is, and I feel like in some ways I joke that goalmen put the cult and culture.

There's this like unwavering um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um mic um um um um um um because so for example, this guy used to work with, who was a partner at the firm, like one guy was demoted because he wanted to leave early to get to coach his kids' little league team. You know, like these things were just like, honestly talked about, so I think there was so much fear to stand up that even if in your gut, you're like, this doesn't feel right? But like, you know what, I don't wanna shoot my mouth off

and have my bonus slash too. So it's that kind of like group think mentality where that one person has the power to create the environment or one or two people had the power to create the environment. So that's one of the things like I want to spread the message with this book and I've gotten like 200 different messages from people, a lot of women, but a lot of men who are like, you know what, I don't look up enough and pay attention. I'm just so focused on my own world and my own stuff that I don't look up enough around and say, hey, cut that out and I'm gonna start doing that more.

Yeah, that's good. Do you think though in this post Me Too World, that, because I've heard this, especially in the finance world, that women were getting hired more, and we were seeing more women in this field. And then, with the Me Too, it's too risky for the boss,

because he's like, I've already got, you know, 20 guys. And if I hire this pretty girl, that's, you know, got a lot going for her and the grades and everything, if I choose her over this guy, I can't trust that they're gonna go out for drinks after in a big group and someone's getting it drunk and say something wrong or possibly, you know, hit on her. I'd rather just hire all guys. Do you think that's

starting to happen? Listen, I think that yes, I do think that's happening and in fact too like I know that's happening with women who are like nearing childbearing age. Like I had a guy who told me offline, like I was looking for someone and I just want to avoid anyone in their 20s or 30s because I don't want the headache of a maternity leave, which is just like crazy to me because it's like men can father kids in perpetuity.

That's cool, they're like, die day. And it's never thought of as like an affliction, you know? And so yeah, listen, I think a lot of the big corporations are saying we want to hire 50% women. And the good thing is that they're doing it. The problem is they're not sticking around. But I really think that the sentiments are changing. And I think it has a lot to do with the experience

your parents had. Meaning, I don't know about you, but my parents were the like, you suck it up, you stay for 40 years, you get the gold watch, you know. I feel like a lot of these younger kids say have parents who kind of work through the 2008 crisis and maybe don't have that loyalty that you suck it up. It's maybe you look for the best environment for you and make it work. And so I think companies have to be really thoughtful about number one, what they're expecting from their employees off the clock.

And if those expectations are in line with everyone, so you could have a fair, where women and men can have a fair, you know, way to both succeed, where it's not slated all the way for one side to succeed and the other side not. I mean, do you feel like I know I feel as a working mom, that I oftentimes have a lot of sadness about what I missed when they were little. You know, I said my biggest regret is that I didn't fight my husband

more on putting this and purchasing a play set in our backyard because I could have used that after work with my kids. I could have gone and had my coffee out there with them and stuff. And I've so much work time now that I have my own business, then, but I did have the commute. I never, I never ever used the mom card. I was the only mom on staff.

And then as the men started having children, they did leave for doctor's appointments. They were going to the doctor's appointments. And I was like, wait, where is he? Oh, you know, little Timmy has a, his six month checkup. And so he went with his wife. And I'm like, are you kidding? Like I've been here for seven years.

I started when my kids were four and one and a half and seven. My stepdaughter was seven. And I'm like, my husband took them, you know? And then on my in my office, they would often really make fun of the fact that my husband was the main caregiver. And I was like, so you, it would be better that he was working full time. And we just had a nanny that didn't give a shit about our kids raising them. Would you, would that, would you prefer that get all these other men therewys for home all the time? Yeah. And I'm like, I will never diss your wife for being home with your kids. And so it's like, I just think so many times

it just has to be pointed out. Like you did with that story about the, which was biologically impossible for a woman to go off to Asia. Like once you bring it up, then people are like, oh my God, you're right. That is so wrong. You're totally, you know?

It's totally. It's just pointing it out so much more than I think is so. Like, you know, it's just very important. And I think in going forward and like finding the careers that work for you, I also think the other thing that I've noticed is really interesting. And maybe it's my for you page on TikTok, I don't know.

But I'm seeing a lot of like young women and that their flex is, that they married well and they don't have to work. Mm-hmm. And they do that there's a whole trend where they're like, yeah, look at this. And you know, I can just go to Starbucks and wear Lulule lemons and I can have as many kids as I want because that's what he says.

And people, and it's kind of weird because like when I was growing up, you know, my mom was so happy to go to college herself and she was so happy to work after being at stay at home on for 17 years that I just assumed I would always work. But there was this little part of me that was like, well, that would be nice

if I didn't have to. And now I think people are realizing, like you should be able to, if you can, that's not like a shameful thing, even if you have an education or whatever. Like, I mean, I do think it's hard to get back in the workforce. That's the only thing. I do think that is hard if you go like 10, 20 years or that ever

having some type of job. And I also think for your own self esteem, I think each parent, man, and woman should always have at least something outside of the home that gives them confidence, whatever that might be, a bigger small of a career or a charity or whatever. I think that's really important, because I think if you make it too comfortable, and if you get divorced, I don't care how rich you thought or how great your thought the deal was, it could be pretty crushing. Like, like if you get divorced

and you're a stay-at-home mom and all you did was raise your kids and at seven, you know, your last kid's 17 and the husband's like, yeah, I'm not, we're not loving anymore and I'm leaving. And you don't have a job to go to and you don't have a career and you don't have anything. And now all the kids are out of the house. I think that could be extremely devastating. And that's why I don't think it's a, that's why I say you should always have something else going on just for your own like confidence because the kids leave.

They leave. Yeah. I mean, listen, I would say that I think it's, oh, I think when I think of women's empowerment, it's like having the power to choose what's best for you, right? So it's not necessarily if you have that college degree, put it to good use with the job, if that's not the choice you make, what I would say is like part of the problem I had was I had my identity was so tied up to being a managing director of

Goldman Sachs, which kind of to your point, someone's identity could be so tied up and being someone's trophy wife or being someone's mom. And to me, it's a super slippery slope. When your identification is tied to one thing, when I left woman's hat together, I was depressed, so depressed. Like it was as if my identity at woman's hats was like the anchor, like the balloon weight, to my balloon, and now I was just floating in the,

like never sphere, like who am I, what do I do? So I think that as people as humans we have to have an identity that's our own regardless of what we do for money or what we do for a career I guess what some careers don't pay right yeah your career might be to be someone's mom or someone's home is they don't pay but you have to be more than that because to your, the job might end, the man might leave, the kids might go to school, what then?

Right. And to me writing this book has been such a discovery of like, I am beyond what I do. I am who I just am. It's like now just what we do, it's just who we are. You know, what's also interesting is that I was talking to someone and her parents were older and they lived in this really nice like retirement, stun city community thing. And they were like very outgoing to when they're 70s and they're like, oh my God, we're so

busy every night. You know, we're part of all these clubs. And the mom goes, you know, it's so amazing is no one asks, what did you do? They just say, what do you like? What are you binge watching on Netflix? Yeah, they're like, what did you read? What podcast do you listen to? Yeah, and I'm like, well, why do you have to wait till 70

to start a conversation like that? Like everybody in our age range, you know, it's always like, oh, what do you do? What do you do for a career? What's your job? And it's like, yeah, that, and now it and not then when you're 75, no one's asking. Oh, so you were a doctor. I don't really care. Are you joining the singer? Yes, we can cluck over here, whatever. I ask people now, what do you watch? What do you binge watching? What are you reading?

Because I don't care because I refuse to believe that that's how we're defined. Right. because I refuse to believe that that's how we're defined. Right. And you know, for me, like, when I walked away from that, you know, it's part of the reason why I did this, because I have one of the big reasons why I walked away from Goldman Sachs is to say, she did not have my husband while I was at Goldman. Well, let's get to that. Yeah. I only hear about that. Tell me about that. Let's end on that cheesy bit. Yeah. Yeah. So like, and you know, you'll look how long were you married for when this happened? Ironically seven years.

So, and you had to have many kids at that time. Three. Okay. And so, how did this affair start? And so, you know, kind of going back to the guilt. I mean, I wanted to be everything to everyone. I wanted to be that mom. I was, I was, I was like, zipping out, dialing into Girl Scout meetings. So, you know, for my girls, and I was trying to be, well, probably not even at that point, but I would say PTO meetings to be a class mom, right?

I was trying to be everything to everyone, and I just couldn't do it, and I just felt like I was failing at everything. And I worked with this guy for years. He had just sent his youngest off to college split, we talked about often what happens. And it was my, you know, you'll appreciate this, and I feel like a lot of people the young people don't but it was my cow gone take me away moment Yeah, for your young listeners. They won't get that but it was like my escape and so here I was I was strung out

And here comes this guy who'd be like let me take out for a glass of wine You know you're doing everything right. You're such a good mom. You're such a good employee. Like, let me just take it out and like, just tell you how great you are. And I just melted because I just felt. And so what, how many times did you go out for the glass of wine to the point where you got the tingles

and then it led to more? And that's the funny thing, because I had worked with this guy before this and I had it in the tingle. So it just goes to show you a lot of times when this stuff happens, it's just more, it's a fix. Like it couldn't be cocaine, right? It was just a phrase.

Right. So circumstantial. Totally. Totally. And I had three kids under three. And I was just, my husband was miserable because he took a step back from work to help with the kids. And we never had time to talk. And so it was glasses of wine every Friday.

And then it was, let me take you out to dinner. And then it was, oh my gosh, like, full it around in a dark bar. And wait, so when did the first kiss happen though? The first kiss happened in the back of a town car, like in a back of like a Cadillac escalate on the way after a dinner. And it was just like, he made me feel so beautiful, so wanted. I felt like a woman again, you know, not just a mom and a

breadwinner and a daughter and, you know, and, you know, my husband and I, we hardly talked and he was miserable. And it felt so good. And then of course I had so much shame afterwards. So I'm like, what the hell am I doing with my life? But he also knew I was right for the picking too. And he was lonely and he was always. So now would you like go to hotel rooms and stuff like in the middle of the day? No, because he was an empty nester.

So, and that's how I actually got caught. Because we would go to his house. And then my husband saw my activity on easy paths and he would like track my phone. And he'd be like, I know where you were. And really the biggest moment was that we were at the point where we were hardly talking. And then my daughter called one night

when I was like literally like we were like naked there. And then my daughter called one night when I was like literally like, we were like naked there. And my little daughter was like, mommy, my belly hurts, when are you coming home? Like I want you to snuggle me to bed. Oh, and I was just like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Like this is just like,

it was my kind of come to Jesus moment. And then you know what I really realized, Heather? Was that like, you know, this sounds so bad, but it's just true. Like I realized my husband could pick up off and leave me. Like here I was like, I was making all these bad decisions. I had a really unhealthy habit of taking Xanax like TikTok, so you know, drink it at night, fool around with this guy. And then, you know, and my husband night, fool around with this guy. And then, you know, and my husband was like,

if you don't call it off with him, I'm outta here. So now how do you find out? Oh, okay, oh, the easy pass. So, when you're tracking my phone, okay. So like, so wait, first the daughter called, but he didn't know about it, and that made you feel bad. And then he found out about it. And then I came home and I was like, oh, I'm sorry.

It was a late night and he was like, I know where you were. I was tracking your phone. I see your easy pass. I know you were around. And I was. I was in New Jersey, but did he think that you were sleeping with someone at that point and they just thought you were like blowing off the family? I think he thought I was more blowing off the family.

And like, kind of to your point, like, why the hell do you want to come home to this hot mess with the three kids under three? Like, you know, plus, and in my defense, I did go out with clients a lot. Right, right. So then when did you admit it or stop it or what? Get right then and there, he was like, I will leave you. And Heather, I'm embarrassed to say that like,

I didn't even think that was an option, you know? And I'm like, oh my god, like I could just lose it all. Like I could lose it all. Like and again, I can't tell you enough. This thinking back to our original conversation about the girl who was fooled around with the guy in the middle of the day at lunch, like, I remember just being so shocked by that. And here I was messing around with my boss, like what a cliche I had been.

And what I really realized was it was just my escape. Like I was in such a pressure cooker there, basically constantly looking the other way when I went to bad things happening, telling lies to protect my job. And then now doing this, I was like, what did I become? Like I was like, Sister Jamie, I was the good Catholic girl. So that night you guys,

you admitted all to him that night. Yeah, and then I made all of it. He put his fist through the wall. My husband is like such a nice guy, but literally he had had enough. He put his fists through the wall. My husband is like, my husband is such a nice guy, but literally he had had enough. And he was doing bad stuff too. He was drinking way too much. He was parting with his friends.

Do a gonos, gonos, who stopped wearing his wedding ring. And I'm like, here I am, working my butt off to make this money for this family. For what? And the family could be destroyed. Yeah. And I talk a lot about my grandmother in the book, but my Italian grandmother, with the St. Jude candles

and working the beads, the Rosary beads for me, she had been long gone, but I was like, what would she have thought of me? You know? Like, she didn't raise me to be like this. And so then, go ahead. So yeah, so then I called it off with him and you know, ironically it was such a mess

but I had gotten promoted. And the way it works at Goldman is they have these titles. Basically everyone eventually becomes a vice president. That's not like a super exclusive title. And then there's managing directors of partners. And they really manage the number of those to keep it exclusive. And so basically, I have been promoted. He had been asked to leave. I didn't realize it at the time. But basically, right when I called it off, he basically resigned. Because it all worked out nicely. It all worked out that he wasn't there.

I mean, how did you tell him that it was over and did he try to convince you otherwise, to do otherwise? Yeah, he, he, and listen, I don't really know what his real intentions were at the end of the day, but he gave me the best lines that, you know, he wanted to take care of me. And, you know, he wanted to take care of me. And, you know, he loved my kids and he wouldn't mind stepping in.

And imagine we have these amazing weekends together in the city and we'd go look at art galleries. And he was kind of selling me this like amazing thing, where I'd, you know, only have my kids every other week and I would get to play in the city and kind of going back to, I was kind of the arm candy, right? Like yeah, here I was in my late 30s. He was in his late 50s like I was his like young, you know, romantic interest and

Yeah, I hit if you told me he loved me. He said all the right things. I don't know if he meant them. I don't know How did you tell him? I told him it was over and I pulled him in the office and then that's when he told me he was leaving that his days were numbered there. And so it was kind of this crazy moment, but then honestly, I was happy because he was like, the temptation was gone, you know? Right.

And then did you guys go to counseling? Yeah. You ever see them again? I never saw them again. And it was the best thing that never happened to my marriage, Heather. It was the best thing. Like, because you know what,

I've been married 18 years now. So this happened maybe around the time I was married 10 years, that kind of thing, eight years, nine years, 10 years. And you know what, if people are married long enough, they either go through some major crap. Agree. They're super lucky and they don't,

or they're lying about it. And the major crap doesn't have to be a fair. It could be issues with substances. It could be issues with money. It could be lying, you know. Some sort of, and so to me, I always say to my husband I'm like, we like basically knocked down the building back to its studs and rebuilt it. But now I'm so good because and she is such a gem My husband because he realized it wasn't about him. It was about

My affair was a coping mechanism It was a coping mechanism. It could have been drugs, it could have been alcohol. I mean, I was also taking drugs and alcohol, but you know, in the day it was just one other thing, I was trying to do to kind of cope with this unbelievable pressure to perform, to make money, constantly with that carrot dangled in your face to just do what you need to do, constantly making decisions that were completely

against who I was and who I wanted to be, and it just took its toll. And so then when did you officially leave? So I ended up leaving a couple of years later, you know, as I said in my book, I couldn't quit at Colturkey. Like I couldn't quit the money just like that. Like I really felt I needed, you know, Goldman really does a number on you. They made me feel like I was nothing without them. You know, in fact, one year, right after bonuses were paid and we all made all this Udals of money, my partner handed out bananas to all of us, the Toro bananas, to say that you're like a little working monkey or what?

You're all monkeys in my book. Ew. And every day the bar gets higher and every day you're earning your seat. And if you don't earn your seat, someone else is, there's a line out the door looking to take your spot. So I really felt Heather that I was nothing without them. I really walked out. Even the day I walked out, I felt like, wow, I'll never make any money again. I'll never be successful again. Because they really mean now looking back, I'm like, you know what? Sure. DeGolman's bags get me access to client's shore. but I was good at what I did because

of who I was. Because I was smart and I worked my butt off and I was thoughtful and engaging and I was great with clients. So it took me a couple years and then unfortunately I ended up ironically that guy left and the guy who replaced me was a real difficult one. He actually was a really bad actor and the end result was, I told you all those years I looked the other way. Got this new boss after the guy had a fair with left and we were out at a client event

in public and he used a racial epithet on a person of color. Outside. And I don't know Heather if I had already kind of started to return to who I was, right? I was making amends with my husband. And I think, you know, I always felt like Ed Goldman. We were kind of this dysfunctional family, but all the dirty laundry was inside, and now it was out in public. And I said, that's it. And I called employee relations.

All those years where I never said something, you know, I mean, there's so many things we didn't cover, but I was assaulted. I didn't say something, you know, the woman sued. I didn't say something. Constantly harassed proposition. Didn't say something. And now I said, that's it. I'm saying say something. The woman sued, I didn't say something. Constantly harassed proposition, didn't say something. And now I said, that's it.

I'm saying something now. And I went to employee relations and they promised me anonymity. So I told them what happened. Because finally, seeing it out of public, I was like, this is bad. And the next day, my partner calls me in my office and stooping Jamie, thinking he wants to talk about

my latest profitability report And he said I got a call that you complained against you made a complaint against Justin He's like, you know, we're a family here. You've just gone against my family. I've taken care of you Like you're my daughter and you've got against my family and I don't appreciate that and from that point on Heather My reviews went down my compensation went down, and they made my life how. That's when the moving happened, that's when all that stuff happened.

And for me, it was like, I've got to get out of here. So at that point, I'm like, let's put a date on it. I ended up getting pregnant and I left. We can have baby number five. But you know, baby number five? Baby number four. Oh, so it had three and then they made my life miserable. I actually had a really bad miscarriage. And I say bad, like a lot of like, dramatically physically.

I mean, miscarriages are always traumatic, emotionally. But this one was resulting in a lot of, you know, blood loss. It was resulting a lot of blood loss. It was like a spontaneous abortion. I think that's what they call them. And they just made my life miserable. And I left. And you know what? I am so better off without their money.

And without their kind of Jedi minds, effing that they do. Well, I mean, I'm not ready to book it. I'm definitely going to read it. I'm very excited for our listeners to get it because it sounds juicy. There's a lot. Obviously we didn't cover in this.

And just as a female pursuing a career, I think there's going to be a lot of life lessons in there. So where can everyone get the book? So it's anywhere where books are sold, Amazon, your local bookstore, the big bookstore is like Barnes and Noble. Did you do it audio? I did, I actually narrated it myself,

which is funny, because I have this raspy, nasal, Jersey voice, but I made the cut and I did it. I felt really strongly that if I had the guts to tell my story I should have the guts to say it. Yeah, great. So yeah, I think you know in some ways it's almost like a cautionary tale and I really want I really want people to not have to sacrifice who they are for what they do because that's what I did. And I think we all deserve it. Men, women, anyone deserve better than that. Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much. The book is full, the link market, the link market, and I'll, you know, we'll share all of it in the, in the next show, and it's in stuff too. But it was great talking to you. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you being interested in my story and sharing it with your listeners.

Absolutely.