Julian Dorey Podcast - 🧐 #102 - Who Was The CIA's Enhanced Interrogation Fall Guy? | Danny Jones

Episode Date: June 2, 2022

(***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ SUBSCRIBE TO KONCRETE: https://www.youtube.com/c/koncrete  “Tampa” Danny Jones is a documentary filmmaker, Hollywood cinematographer and podcaster. Danny spent the early days of his career as an underwater cinematographer and eventually worked his way towards creating his own documentaries. After releasing various films/features (including the viral YouTube Docuseries “Deckhands”) Danny launched a long-form, in-person podcast in 2018 called “Koncrete.” The show is phenomenal and the guests he’s had on are top-tier. Go check it out! ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - The brilliance of Breaking Bad; How Danny got into cinematography; The Blair Witch Project; Jumping over Sharks in Florida 20:08 - Danny talks about his early projects in the film industry including “Deckhands”; The TV Industry & Legacy Media vs. Modern Media 38:16 - Danny tells the story of former CIA Agent John Kiriakou; The Abu Zubaydah Al-Qaeda capture in 2002; How Kiriakou became the CIA’s fall guy; Russia and free speech; The madness of the post-Ukraine Invasion 55:38 - Danny talks about the tyrant Mao Zedong & his wife Jiang Qing; Do Russian Dissidents have a platform in America?; Oliver Stone’s role in policy debate 1:16:53 - Elon Musk and power grabs; Bill Gates and land grabs; Apple’s recent emphasis on Privacy marketing; Corporations run America more than the government?; How the rich get richer 1:43:49 - Danny talks about Koncrete’s most-featured guest, Mortgage Fraudster Matt Cox; Trump’s blogs are nuts 2:01:40 - Term limits and the middle ground between 4 years and forever; potential bellwether elections just happened; Skip Bayless is awful; The early days of YouTube; What’s the next content boom? 2:21:54 - Danny talks about his mentor, legendary Underwater Cinematographer, Pete Zuccarini (Pirates of The Caribbean, Avatar, Life of Pi, and more); Why Danny walked away from Hollywood 2:43:54 - YouTube vs TikTok content battle; Spotting liars 3:01:16 - The Johnny Depp Amber Heard Trial; Danny’s Marilyn Manson Bucket List wish; The Defiant Ones Documentary ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “TRENDIFIER”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier   PRIVADO VPN FOR $4.99/Month: https://privadovpn.com/trendifier/#a_aid=Julian Julian's Instagram: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

No disrespect to him, but I feel like he was kind of the Karen of the CIA. And that's what they called him. They called him the human rights guy. But they put him through the ringer. They put him through the fucking ringer, yeah. And anything that was morally unjust, he sort of spoke up and sort of called people out on it, which is why I call him the Karen of the CIA, because I feel like if you're in the cia you should kind of expect that danny jones what's up man welcome to new jersey thanks for having me on your podcast of course

thank you for having me on your podcast you're the first one having me that's had me on their show like in a legit studio like this matt cox hasn't had you on his show yet i've been on his show but he'd be recorded in my studio oh so you were at least on it i was on it yeah you let him use the space for that i let him use my studio yeah he had me on his podcast but in my studio that's i gotta see that one that's sick it's pretty good and by the way thank you for hooking up matt and andy bustamante up here hell yeah it's phenomenal those people are sick episodes. Super interesting guys. It's really funny how the world works sometimes, man,

because I was not aware of your show until, this is like maybe right after New Year's, something like that, and somebody pointed out Concrete and was like, hey, have you heard of this? Can you check it out? Let me know what you think. I said, no, actually. Let me go check it out.

So I turned on the, it was the Roger Reeves one, and i'm like holy shit this is fucking phenomenal so i was a fan and then i don't know maybe like a month later you hit me up and i'm like oh that's that's weird yeah like something's happening here and then you know we hit it off so it's it's been great getting to know you and have a show to look up to because you've been doing this longer than i have and you're doing a fucking amazing job man well thanks man that's exactly how i learned about you through the comment section that's it a guy commented it he's like dude you gotta check out julian doy or get him on here that's so cool i looked you up and i followed you on twitter and the rest is

history next thing we know we're playing golf together that's that's it man and that was that was fun down there enjoyed that with the boys that was super fun man i really enjoyed that as well give me your glass, by the way. I'm really enjoying this New Jersey neighborhood that we're in, this Soprano-esque neighborhood that we're in. I feel like you're so into it. You look at New Jersey as a science experiment. Yeah, it's definitely.

It's just all these memories of watching The Sopranos are flooding back to me right now. Now, did you watch that when it was originally on or did you watch it after? No, I watched it after. I wasn't into watching TV when that was on. That show, I mean, I'll defend it forever as the best there ever was, but it just... It definitely started the whole genre of good serialized drama. Exactly. They were really the place that legitimized it.

They took the movies and brought them home to your TV, effectively. good serialized drama exactly they were they were really the place that legitimized that they took the movies and brought them home to your tv effectively and they told the story so fucking well man i mean like and you're we'll get into it but like you know your background is film and everything and when you look at like the even today 20 years later whatever it is you know that of course the the style and how they told the stories, the cinematography, and even the way, especially I'd say, the way they scored it with the music and everything. It's timeless. Yeah. I enjoy doing stuff like that.

That's really my calling is creating shit like that. I told you before I was super inspired by Breaking Bad. That's kind of what gave me my style, my documentary style. I think Breaking Bad was kind super inspired by breaking bad that's kind of like what gave me my style my documentary style i think document i think breaking bad was kind of inspired by sopranos yes because it was really like the second biggest show after the sopranos was breaking bad that everyone talked about depends i mean a lot a lot of people talk about the wire too oh yeah the wire i never watched that person oh my god you've never seen that no i've never seen the wire you're a documentarian and you've never seen the wire oh my god are you in for it that show is literally it's a documentary it's a show it's a story it's got actors but it's the same shit like they told the story so well in the style that they did and it wasn't even like

this crazy high budget thing it wasn't all this fanfare it was just it was brilliant but i mean no matter what breaking bad is just like another perfect show yeah it was incredible the job they did yeah it was amazing that show that show really took it to the next level and uh especially like i told you before like there's the cinematography in that show and the character development and you know regardless of what the story is regardless of the not even taking the writing into account just just the filmmaking part of it was fucking blew my mind and when did you get into that like filmmaking i got i got into that when i was super young when i was probably 15 years old, 14 years old, maybe even younger. Just filming skateboarding and surfing and shit with my friends.

By the way, cheers. Cheers. I do that right. I appreciate you having me up here to Joy-Z. Of course, man. I've never said it like that in my life, by the way. That's not how they say it? No.

How do they say it? It's Jersey. Just Jersey. That's it. Just Joy-Z. Yeah, I don't like this. You're coming at me with some heat right now. I don't like it? It's Jersey. Just Jersey. That's it. Just Jersey. Yeah, I don't like this. You're coming at me with some heat right now. I don't like it.

That's not heat. It's just fun. I woke up to a text this morning that said, there's a lot of great characters on my flight to Philadelphia. A lot of gold jewelry going on. I'm like, okay. A lot of gold chains. He chose violence this morning.

I see what it is. A lot of wife beaters. A lot of tank tops. A lot of those. It's just the way she goes. For sure. Sometimes she comes. Sometimes she goes she goes there's styles there's styles to it but i'm sorry i cut you off you were saying you got into it when you were like 14 or 15 yeah yeah super young full in yeah yeah just skateboarding and surfing shit like me and my friends were just always like skating and surfing everywhere and filming each other and making little clips out

of it and then eventually i gave i became friends with a couple pro surfers that are from the same town as me and uh where are you from indian rocks beach florida which is like right next to tampa yeah straight shot west from tampa straight to the beach from tampa right south of clearwater and um yeah just uh became friends with those guys couple pro surfers from the area and um eventually their sponsors hired me to follow them around the world and shoot them like surfing and stuff and how old were you uh that time i was probably 18 maybe 18 wow early but i was also working construction i had a couple friends who had a a painting commercial painting business and we were painting like condos and like new construction high rises and shit like

that and i was doing that and then whenever i would get like a like an offer to go like travel and film some crazy surfing i would go do that and then that led to shooting for espn and mtv and just being like a hired hand to film content shows documentaries and stuff like that like as a camera operator and producer as a young kid did you go to film school in there too? No, no. I wanted to, but I didn't get in. No shit. Too much of an idiot.

You didn't get in? No, I didn't get in. I had really bad grades in high school. But what about creatively? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So you're hosting the family barbecue this week, but everyone knows your brother is the grill guy, and it's highly likely he'll be backseat barbecuing all night.

So be it. Impress even the toughest of critics with freshly prepared Canadian barbecue favorites from Sobeys. My grades, I didn't pay attention to high school. I skipped a lot of school to go surf, just go surfing and do stupid shit with my friends. And I neglected my high school education. So for that reason, I couldn't get into – I wanted to go to UCF for film school, which is University of Central Florida in Orlando.

And I actually even got a letter of recommendation from one of their top graduates of all time. His name is Rob Cowie, and he was the guy who created the blair witch project the blit wait i actually don't know you never heard of the blair witch project no wow what is that the blair witch project is the first found footage feature movie that ever came out so have you ever heard of paranormal activity yes that's that's like a full-blown feature film yeah so basically he was there they were it was the first movie that was marketed as real life found

footage so it's like it was these kids that went out into the woods they went camping and they found some fucking witchcraft shit and it killed them all and then the footage was found they found literally like the tapes and somebody found the tapes and – They were killed by witches. By witches. Some sort of fucking crazy witchcraft, yeah. Where was this? I forget where it was.

In the woods. Somewhere in America. Okay. All right. Continue. And they found the footage and then they cut it into a documentary. And they marketed it like, okay, we're going to – this is going to be – we're going to premiere this to the real world. But this is found footage of these college kids that all got murdered.

We found their cameras. We found their tapes. And fucking blew everyone's mind and it made like hundreds of millions of dollars and it only cost them 50 grand to make it really i gotta see this so wait when was when was the alleged attack or whatever the movie came out no no like they when they were killed in the woods i don't i don't remember a long time ago 90s early 90s maybe and when did this come out like late 2000s 90s i think oh it came out back then too so it's like right after maybe late 90s i don't know you have to look it up i can't remember i have to see this but so it was one of the most successful movies of an alumni of ucf ever so a fucking letter recommendation from that guy is like

a golden ticket sure but still didn't get me in danny grades wasn't good enough i was too so um at that point i was just kind of like i kind of gave up all hope and just you know i was getting a couple jobs here and there filming for i got a job when i was like 19 filming for espn in puerto rico for a bill fishing marlin fishing tournament where uh you know all these fucking rich guys go out in their boats and they catch blue marlin and and uh it's part of a tv show on espn and i was like i was the guy with the water housing because when i used to film surfing i'd be in the water with the water housing i put my video camera in this big like submarine it's like a submarine looking thing maybe like this big.

You put your camera in it, and then you can go in the ocean with it. Oh, is that like the thing you see the guys in the cage when they're shooting the sharks? Yep. And they're going, oh, wow. Except not that giant. I'll put that in the corner of the screen so people can see that. So you bought one of those young then? Yeah, so I got one of those when I was super young because I always liked getting footage of surfing from the water angle.

So then obviously that was an easy way to get cool fishing footage of bringing in the marlin into the boat. And there'd be times where I'd be like, they'd be pulling up a marlin into their boat and I'd jump overboard to shoot them pulling the fish up. And then a giant shark would come maul the fucking fish right behind the boat. And I'm in the water just filming it. Next to yeah oh no i'm filming i'm out sharks just mauling these giant uh marlin and sailfish and stuff it was insane now are you talking like bull sharks or what what kind of sharks down there no no i think down there it's mainly tiger sharks um a lot of a lot of different reef sharks are down there um mako sharks they'll get you they'll get you nothing like a great there's no great whites or anything like there's a lot of

hammerheads down in florida where i'm at like a lot of hammerheads and bull sharks um luisa said he used to swim next to him in the canal in miami when he was training he's a heavyweight boxer it's like his wife would would hit the his wife would be next to him in the boat and whenever she hit the engines he'd be like oh fuck there's a couple sharks and he'd have to jump back on the boat but there's like i mean florida's where you always hear about a significant number of shark attacks but it's interesting because there's not the great whites usually if you ever hear about them it's always in the summer and it's like up in massachusetts it's like not in california yeah yeah mexico yeah way out there no yeah i think the shark attack capital of the world's in new samaritan beach florida which is a place that i go all the time where is it new

samaritan beach it's right by daytona beach oh on the east coast on the east coast of florida yeah but there's a bunch of like little spinner sharks and black tip sharks and stuff like that little people get bit almost every week there. That's not really true. Every weekend there. But they're not like life-threatening bites. You get like a couple stitches or... Yeah, see, I'm out on that.

I went... It's worth it, Julian. I haven't gone in the ocean in Florida since I was 12 years old because the last two times I went in, I jumped over a bull shark and I was like, nope, that's it. Oh, bull shark. No, fuck that. Yeah, we're enough. We're done with the bull shark. We're done with that. went in i jumped over a bull shark and i was like nope oh bull shark no fuck that yeah we're enough of the bull shark we're we're done with that how did you jump over a bull shark well it was a total i trust me i wouldn't have jumped but where were you like you're jumping off a dock i was on the east coast and i was just swimming in the ocean the first time at the beach at the beach the second time i jumped over it the first time it

was like from me to that camera from me and i was luckily i wasn't far i was like 11 years old or something like that and so it was like a little gully in a calm day and got right in it wasn't i think it was like going after a fish so i didn't even know i was there yet but then the second time i heard my mom was back on the beach maybe like a year or two later i'm like all right I'll go in the ocean it was kind of rough too so my god they won't be out here and I went out I don't know how far but it's somewhat far and I was like waiting on a wave I just heard my mom yell and and I turned around she was going like this I was like okay and then I don't know why but I like turned back

around to the wave I guess to check if the wave was like gonna crash on me and then when i came back around i was a swimmer so i would always be looking for like a bunny hop like you'd go off a wall on a flip something like that and so i like bunny hopped and as i did i went up like into a into like a dive because i was like up to here and the fucking fin goes right beneath my stomach oh shit and i didn't touch it i would have felt that but i didn't touch it and i got over that i got inside i'm never going in here again it's never ever again in florida we're not doing it it's over yeah they won't fuck with you really there's a there's a crazy um video in miami of this woman like waiting out into the like towards the sandbar she must be like she must be like 100 yards from shore, but it's still

really shallow because it's low tide. I think she's walking up towards the sandbar. It shows a hammerhead shark swimming right towards her. The person on the 20th floor of this condo is filming it. All of a sudden, the shark just starts torpedoing towards her.

They're thinking, oh my god, we're going to watch this lady die. All of a sudden, when it's a foot or two feet from her it just turns around as a u-turn yeah i mean that's the thing like the chances technically despite what i'm saying about it with my attitude the chances are always more on the side of they're not going to do anything that is true but it's like they're out there every day if you're surfing it's like holy shit like you got there 50 straight days and like one out of the 50 it says like oh i think i'll take a bite yeah they're gonna be like and it's a certain type of sharks too that usually will bite like the bull sharks or the tiger sharks the ones that'll eat anything that was always the

one i heard the bull shark yeah bull sharks bull sharks are crazy because they have the most testosterone out of any shark that's why they're considered probably the deadliest shark i had manny puig you know who manny puig is is that the is that the cartel guy no no he uh i don't know if you've ever seen like jackass or wild boys yeah i have so manny puig's the guy he's the shark guy he's the guy who like who like levitates alligators out of lakes and swims with every single fucking shark. Looks like Tarzan. I can't picture his face, but I can picture some of the skits.

He's got kind of a weird soft-spoken Cuban accent. Anyways, he's crazy as fuck. He's missing one finger from a rattlesnake that bit him. Oh, that's nice. But I had him on my podcast when we were were talking about sharks he swam with every single shark on the planet and uh he's been bit by sharks probably like 14 times and he's been bitten by eight different species of sharks oh he keeps track yeah Nice. And he said the one shark, guess what shark you think is the worst to get bit by? What were you guessing?

Great white, tiger shark, nurse or nurse shark? I mean, if I had known he was bitten by a great white, of course I'd say that just because it's like the biggest. But if great white aside, I would have said bull shark. He said the worst bite is from the worst. Obviously, he hasn't been bit by a great white aside i would have said bull shark he said the worst bite is from the worst obviously he hasn't been bit by a great white yeah but he said the worst bite that he got was from a nurse shark i don't even know what that is a nurse shark a nurse shark yeah nurse like a woman yeah it's called nurse yeah nurse. It's one of the most docile sharks. It's like one of the most harmless sharks people... Yeah, I'm looking at it.

People are least afraid of nurse sharks. I'll put it in the corner of the screen for people. They kind of like hang out by the seafloor. They don't really come up. They don't swim. They're not pelagic. This thing. Yeah.

It looks like a catfish. Yeah. Does it have sharp teeth, I guess? Very, very docile shark. People swim with them all the time in the Bahamas. Like, you can go to places in the Bahamas and swim with, like, dozens of them. Yeah, look at this fucking guy. He's got one bite.

It's a baby, but he's got a bite in his arm. So he said the nurse shark was the worst bite ever. He said they have more jaw pressure. They have, like, five times more jaw pressure than a great white how big do these fucking things get they get they get probably 10 12 feet well that's sizable but damn but the thing is they have so much jaw pressure what they do is they'll bite on you and they'll just drag you into the deep water and you know there's nothing you can do about it no you're done it's like i mean that's like i mean they don't have giant like six six inch razors in their mouth like a great white

which will just shred you but they have that jaw pressure and they can just drown you so how did he get away uh well he every time he got bit they just let go they were just kind of like seeing what he was all about like trying to get a taste you know he wasn't trying to get i mean he does so what he said is when he goes out and he films with sharks he tries to get the sharks to eat him oh that's that's smart that's actually what he says wow sounds like a great idea they chum up the water and get the sharks you know super aggressive like they want to eat them and then that's how you get the best footage for the shows that that he films with which is fucking crazy he's a he's crazy. He's a wild motherfucker.

I gotta see that one. And listen, I wish that guy well, but at a funeral of someone like that, what do you say? He went out doing what he loved? What's the whole deal? Because it seems like whenever I see guys like that or guys climbing buildings without a harness on,

they're way up in the sky and shit like that, I'm like, I mean if if you're gone it's like i guess that's what you planned right yeah i guess no one's surprised right no it's final though but that would be the best way to go if you were one of those guys right you'd want to die doing what you love now that's an interesting thing maybe not you know i think a guy like him swimming with all those deadly sharks you know it'll he'll probably end up just going into sleep that it's funny how that works it is funny how that works like the last it's almost like Swimming with all those deadly sharks, he'll probably end up just going into sleep. It's funny how that works.

It is funny how that works. It's almost like attracting the opposite vibe, like begging someone to kill you. But nah, nah. It's like the opposite of Kobe Bryant, right? That's something you would never fucking expect. That's a great point. Like your idol, someone that you worship, never picture them picture them going down in a helicopter like it makes no sense you would but you would totally expect steve irwin to get stung by a stingray or something crazy whatever it was even though that was kind of nuts

like when it happened it's like well he does do some wild shit but he was like that's the thing he was a lot more controlled than like this guy. You know, Steve wasn't in there like trying to get a shark to bite him. No. Yeah. Steve was a lot more tame than Manny. But Steve, I mean, what are the chances that a stingray barb pierces your heart? Yeah, I think that's what it was literally like a spear kind of.

Yeah. Right. It was a big ass stingray and the barb is like probably what eight inches long the thing went right into his fucking heart and you guys have those in florida too right oh everywhere in florida yeah i just showed you a picture a second ago before we started that was in florida yeah my buddy tfue tfue yeah he catches stingrays and sharks and shit in his boat that's the great thing about where we live man there's so much so much shit to do like fishing surfing spearfishing diving well you know what you actually what i like about this is you scratched

your itch getting into filmmaking at the beginning because like you love surfing and stuff you're like oh i can film this too make it look cool but then later on and we'll come back to like some of your career and stuff because i think that's really interesting how this ended up but like you ended up doing documentaries and and you're like when you started to do your own and not just like stuff that you were coming into a company and making them it was like well let me just look in the backyard i'll make i'll make one like deckhands yeah looking under rocks that's it and it's like you have a story like that which by the way for people listening if you haven't checked out danny's channel concrete with a before the podcast, there was all kinds of feature films that you did, I guess like 2016, 2017, 2018-ish, something like that.

Yeah. And they're phenomenal. example with just some guys who were these commercial fishermen who seemed like they were crazy dudes with interesting stories and who went to the 7-Eleven and panhandled for alcohol and caught fish at some point during the day and you're like oh let's let's roll camera and then you get this amazing six-part series that has I mean it has so many layers to it from like a human study perspective and it was right there yeah right where you grew up it's fun wild how it happens wild how it turns out man but yeah before that way before that i was working on like feature movies and stuff like that like being a camera pa or a camera assistant or even a camera operator on like actual like feature movies for uh warner brothers well what'd you do

because you said you didn't get into film school. I didn't get into film school. And then you were in construction, but you stayed filming stuff. So how did you, like, did you get a break where, you know, you went to MTV or something like that? Well, yeah. So I started filming those fishing tournaments for ESPN. Then I eventually started getting calls from like different,

like VH1 was one of them, MTV and VH1 were two of them. Just to do on, like like that was in like the reality show era when their reality shows were first taking off um the competition shows and all that and i would get calls from those guys to come like be a camera operator on one show or one episode and that morphed into me actually developing concepts for TV shows, like developing pilots for shows. Were you writing? No, I wasn't writing. It was basically I had multiple friends who were involved in various businesses and ventures around the world.

And one of my friends ended up he had a pawn shop company he owned a chain of pawn shops in the caribbean there was like 20 something pawn shops from all the way from the bahamas through cuba jamaica barbados antigua cayman islands just some dude from florida some kid yeah my age and he was basically just taking this little puddle jumper from island to island managing all these pawn shops and a puddle jumper yeah like a small like like a little seaplane oh shit yeah like it land in the water wait how did he just wake up one day like i'm gonna own pawn shops in the caribbean oh that's really random it was it started with one pawn shop and then um it was an investor came in and said like like, do you want to expand this?

And they expanded it into – and they bought tons of them. And their base was in the Cayman Islands, in Grand Cayman. And then they bought a plane so they could make it easier to travel and manage everything. Ooh, these cloud lifters are crispy, man. I can't get over it. It's pretty good, right? It sounds so good. I need to get one of these.

Anyway, so me and him were sitting there talking one day, and I'm like, dude, this would be a fucking amazing show. So he convinced the guy who invested in the company to pay us to develop a pilot to shop the show around. So we spent a couple months doing that, like flying around. I hired a crew, and we spent probably two or three months on various islands filming. How many people did you have?

We had a crew of probably one, two, three, like probably eight people. That's a lot of money. Yeah, a lot of money. Who funded it again? Well, the people who invested in the pawn shop company funded the pilot. But when they funded it, were they saying like you're allowed to go get a full crew and everything for it or oh yeah they gave me a full budget so they weren't just like go give us like what do they call it um when it's like when you do like a fake trailer you know what i mean a pilot no no there's a sizzle sizzle that's it it wasn't

like you just going to get a sizzle they're like no we actually actually shot like you would we shot well we did a sizzle but we also filmed three episodes so we had three episodes in the can wow yeah so we shot we shot enough for three episodes initially we got that we we developed the sizzle and we shot the sizzle all around to every single big production house there is the the biggest one we shopped at too, which we had a couple of meetings with, was the production company that sold Duck Dynasty. This was in like the heyday of Duck Dynasty. When Duck Dynasty was like the biggest show on TV, making all this money

and it's all everyone was talking about. We had dozens of meetings, flew all around, met with every production company, every TV network and it never went anywhere. Dozens of meetings. Flew all around. Met with every production company. Every TV network. And it never went anywhere. And after all that time, it was just so, it was such a letdown to.

How many months are you talking here? Probably from concept to shooting and shopping it around. This whole process probably lasted two years. Oh, shit. Wow. Yeah. two years oh shit wow yeah long time yeah super long time that's how long it takes longer than that sometimes but but um yeah man those tv networks are there they only operate based on what's good for their advertising so you could spend you know all this money, all this time. I mean, I wasn't the guy who dumped all my money into it. I just dumped all my time into it.

I got paid for my time, but it's hard. The TV industry is extremely difficult. The whole gatekeeper mentality with the networks and the production companies, these production companies now, the way they they just they're just scouring the internet and scouring podcasts for content and locking people up in shopping agreements so they can sit up sit on the shelf for six months to a year because they have these relationships with these networks and they can go to these meetings every single month and the networks are saying hey we you know we got we got fuck we got coca-cola and good year we want to get some shows that line up with these new advertisers we got. So what do you got in this niche or this category?

And then the production company goes, oh, we got 24 shows on the shelf that we think will work for this, that we locked these people up in these agreements for six years ago or whatever. And it works that way. So it's like reverse engineered from advertising to content it's not like what's good what's interesting what's amazing content let's go find advertisers for it's the opposite right which i learned the hard way um with a lot of letdowns and i basically duplicated that process with that pawn shop show probably three or four times before i just decided

i'm gonna take all this fucking shit and put it on youtube myself oh so wait was that the genesis of something like deckhands you're like yes oh let me start shooting this and then sell the concept yeah and then i did another show with a guy uh a big guy in my town big real estate investor same thing same exact process is that that mallard's guy yeah yeah mallard's so what were you doing there so he was a real estate investor and he was just this fucking hilarious character and started filming commercials and advertising for his businesses and he was a fucking character like he was like larry david in a 500 pound body he was like Larry David and Tony Soprano had a baby that's who he was is he still alive yeah he's still alive okay barely but he's

still alive um worked on that show for a couple years at least two or three years before we started shopping it around that one we thought for sure that one that thing's gonna get picked up we had a couple big production companies and a couple big we actually got greenlit by Spike TV where we started shopping it around. That one we thought for sure, that thing's going to get picked up. We had a couple of big production companies and a couple of big, we actually got greenlit by Spike TV for that show. We went to the green light meeting. That sounds right up their alley. Yeah.

And the CEO in the meeting, the CEO of Icon was there and he killed it because they were trying to go very like religious, Christian, family friendly. At Spike TV? At Spike, yeah yeah they had a whole they had a whole rebrand right when we were doing this no wonder i haven't heard of any i mean i don't watch tv anymore so it's hard it's hard for me to say this about any one person but maybe

that's a part of it i haven't heard that name like even on social media anywhere in a long time yeah spike was going through a rebrand right when we were pitching it or right when they took it to green light meeting anyways so i took all that i took all that and i i re-edited it i re-edited three years of content repackaged it all for youtube into episodes he did a phenomenal and it fucking went off yeah and that's what that's the moment i realized that i'm gonna start just doing everything and publishing it independently i mean i look i prefer seeing it that way because you don't get any of those people in suits who don't have a creative bone in their body in between you to tell you how to optimize every single thing for in this case as you pointed out advertisers

for example but there's other things too there's all kinds of bullshit you know and you get to put out your vision and you get to sink or swim on it period right so you know it worked out for you because it built it built your channel a big base too and then you know you gave yourself the flexibility like i i'm i love how you built your channel where you had that and then you're like you know what i think i'll do a podcast and you could kind of like ease into it and be like yeah this is this is what we're gonna do and of course there's some people who are like okay well now i don't like this channel anymore i don't want to podcast i'm not. And of course, there's some people who are like, okay, well, now I don't like this channel anymore. I don't want a podcast. I'm not into that. But then there's a lot of people who are like,

oh, sick. This dude's doing a podcast now? Great. And now they already know you're a storyteller. So then they see someone come on and they're like, wow, that guy sounds interesting. Boom. They're in. Yeah. No, the podcast, I mean, it's a weird thing, too, because you get sick of doing shit as well. Like,

look at YouTube. Every YouTube channel that's successful has is got one knit they got one thing they stick to for a long period of time it becomes successful me i don't like doing the same thing for that long like any of these shows i get sick of them after a while like i get sick of hanging out with uh crack heads every weekend for six months straight it gets old yeah you know making a series about one thing gets old every once in a while or doing anything for that matter. I mean, I don't know if I'll fucking keep podcasting forever. Eventually, I might get sick of it and want to go back to editing crazy documentaries or short films or whatever it might be.

I hope you do, by the way. I don't want to see you stop the podcast because the thing I'll say on that is that the nice thing about it and it can be a curse and I do understand this because you and I have similar interests and talk to a wide range of people but like you don't necessarily have a niche there the niche is podcasts but there's a million kinds

of podcasts that's not really a niche it's like okay that's a type of content but then you're talking with Ben Maller's all the way to you know larry mazza and then you're talking to sean atwood who's over in europe and has a totally different story or you're talking to fucking matt cox you know like you you go across the board you're talking to all different types of people with with in in different things you have you've had guys on on the metaverse and stuff like that so it keep like that whole that human thing we have of like chasing in some way always needs some sort

of new shiny object to chase you have that built in in my opinion from the outside to your podcast because you have to constantly be like okay well this one's way different let's talk to this guy yeah you know the only thing that's the same is you know you can walk into the studio the cameras are there the mics are there you turn them on and you're going the thing about doing the the short films and the documentaries and even movies for that for that matter is that kind of content has some sort of like a it's it has like a soul to it it has like a vibe to it like there's a vibe it's like what like my the way i edit any sort of con like old content whether it be documentaries or short films or whatever the fuck it is commercials i try to make them like music videos you'll have

something that you can take away from it and learn from it as well as enjoy the ride it just carries you because the way the music because it's good music insane looking visuals combined with some sort of educational content or something that you take away from it which this is not that way this is just there's two people talking this is the most cut and dry type of content you could possibly create yes but the thing about it which is different is it's it makes you better at things like the most important thing i think to most people is probably communication there's probably nothing you can be better at other than communication because that can help you in pretty much every aspect of your life. Whether it be sales,

whatever the fuck it is. Convincing people of anything. And that's what I've gained the most from doing this podcast, is gaining the ability to communicate with people, different types of people, and articulate shit. Which I've learned when I first started doing this, that I didn't know the first,

I couldn't do to save my own life. Which is why I think you're perfect for podcasting because you're really good at that shit. You're a fucking great, you're great at communicating. You're a great talker. You're great at talking to all kinds of people. And that's why I like listening to your podcast,

Julian. I appreciate that, man. But seriously, like right back at you, it's when I see some of your earliest stuff, like once I started going and looking, the improvement in how you are so quick to understand where someone's going before they get there is so noticeable. And there's a – like I do this.

So of course I'm listening for certain things because I'm always trying to see like, well, this guy is great. What makes him great? But like even people that just are in the audience listening for entertainment they're not thinking about that shit they inherently notice that you know they see i was talking with you about this earlier but like they can see when you have no hesitation towards very calmly but blatantly out of nowhere challenging someone on something that's hard to do that's really like and i was talking about the boostamante episode you did with him, the most recent one, and that guy's a pro. I mean he's obviously great at doing this and communicating and nothing really shakes him. But you really – there were a couple times in there where it was like you had no problem going, wait, no, how does that make any sense?

And you're talking to a guy who was undercover in a serious place for years and years and years and years you worked at the cia he's very he's a galaxy brain and all this but to be able to do that and then keep the flow going and keep great rapport because it was very comfortable while i was going on too that is very very difficult so you should give yourself a lot of credit for that because i would guess at the beginning of your podcast that wasn't something that was as natural to you. You went from behind the camera to now also being on the camera. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It was super difficult. Definitely didn't come naturally. It came from basically watching all my worst moments talking to people because now I can't edit out the dumb shit. You know what I mean? I can't just put the best stuff in there and then cut away to some music or some B-roll whenever I want. Right. But yeah, no, it's hard.

I mean, it just came from watching how bad i sucked and figuring out how to make them better and i think when you challenge people or try to come up with a argument against something that somebody's talking about i think it makes the talking aspect more engaging yeah for a casual listener absolutely and it you know making something uncomfortable is such a weird line because it's great content it is great but some people also are like I can't I can't keep going I can't listen to this and you're it's a weird line but also you don't want to you think it turns some people off depends on which one it is like i can think of ones that i've listened to of other podcasts where i'm like oh that was amazing and other times where i'm like yeah i can't oh my god this is so uncomfortable i remember there was there was an old rogan podcast this was

years ago where some dude started he started to say there was no such thing as a man or a woman i mean it was an hour of that and joe was just like what like over that makes no sense yeah i'm just it probably went longer than that but i i'm like i can't yeah i can't this is like i have secondhand embarrassment for everyone in this situation so you felt bad for the guest i think i felt bad for everybody yeah but i the guest was all i mean i thought it was a pretty cold take from the guest i feel pretty comfortable about the definition there so yeah i was like okay but there's other times where if you're like if you want to argue with Andy over privacy, obviously, guys like you and me, we're coming out on the opposite end of that.

But it's a healthy conversation. It's uncomfortable, but it's – it's uncomfortable if you're listening to it a little bit. It's not – you make it so that you have no problem challenging to come at that. And then when you're in here, which is important to be able to get the communication across, it's good for the two of you. So then that ends up coming across, I think, to the listener. You do a really, really good job of that. Yeah. I try to do as much as I possibly can. I still don't agree with his point that he made about that, about the whole analogy about, do you have kids? Do you tell your kids everything? It's different when there's, when there's laws and the whole creation of a state thing too.

I've talked about that. I talked about that in that last podcast I did with, with, um, with Kari Yaku and, and he came up with a pretty good argument against it. Oh, tell me about this guy, by the way, John, I haven't seen this one yet. Yeah. What's the story there? Yeah. He's fucking fascinating dude.

Who's been banned on pretty much every social media platform except for twitter um and what's his background if you are looking to add some hours days months years to your life because maybe you're not sleeping too well every night and maybe you're waking up without enough energy to properly attack the day you should check out my friends over at eight sleep the eight sleep pod pro cover is one of the best things i've ever used in my life. It comes in queen or king sizes. In my case, a queen. Goes right on top of your current mattress. Is wired directly into 8sleep's proprietary app where it measures your sleep stages and all kinds of

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So check it out. And he was in the CIA for 15 years and he worked the CIA. They called him the human rights guy because when they, when they first came out with the enhanced interrogation program, he was like asking them questions. Like I said, you want to do this? And,

uh, he like was asking a bunch of questions about it and he went up he went up and talked to like his the guy who was in in charge of him who was his boss and he asked him questions like why would you ask these questions like we're in the cia and because of that because him always asking questions i feel like he was kind of no disrespect to him but i feel like he was kind of the karen of the cia and that's what they called him. They called him the human rights guy.

But they put him through the ringer. They put him through the fucking ringer, yeah. And anything that was morally unjust, he sort of spoke up and sort of called people out on it, which is why I call him the Karen of the CIA. Because I feel like if you're in the CIA, you should kind of expect that. How far does it go? How far does it go how far does it go that's the question but he had a life uh abu zabeda he caught abu zabeda and he was on the actual he was like guns drawn doing it oh yeah he well he was a couple he was like a couple blocks away supervising the whole thing over radio okay when

those guys were doing it and as soon as they shot those guys at well they they caught i was a beta and the guy in the security guard he was with at a safe house he heard a bunch of shots fired when there were supposed to be no shots fired so they they hauled ass to the location and i was a beta and a security guard were laying on the ground bleeding out abu zubaydah was shot in the leg the gut and like the torso or something was this in pakistan or jordan i don't remember this was in i think pakistan yeah i'm pretty i'm pretty sure it was pakistan it was like i'm trying to remember it i think maybe like number three at al-qaeda that's what they said that's what the that's what the cia said that he was like number three at Al Qaeda? That's what they said. That's what the CIA said, that he was like number three, but apparently he was a little bit farther down the totem pole than that.

God, I'll put his picture in the corner. And he was like... One of our wild terrorist pictures of all time. Wouldn't they? Yeah. That's him. That guy has been through fucking hell. One of the stories with his eye,

they fucking, once he was in Guantanamo. Oh, his eye wasn't like that. No, they fucking removed his eyeball. Guantanamo. They did, what the fuck did they do to his eye? They did something where they surgically fucking removed his eye. And then. The CIA.

The CIA, yeah. It was part of the interrogation process. Part of his torture was removing his fucking eyeball enhanced interrogation yeah enhanced interrogation we do not interrogate we do not torture yeah dude that guy's been through fucking hell it's amazing that he's still alive um but yeah karyaku he was over there he caught abu zubaydah and you know he told the whole story about that and then how after he was basically rushed into surgery because they needed to keep him alive. His mission was get Abu Zubaydah alive. And Abu Zubaydah was on the street bleeding out.

They fucking took him to the closest hospital. He talks about being in the hospital while Abu Zubaydah is getting surgery done. He's waiting in the waiting room while people are showering the hospital with AK-47s. He's ducking. And eventually they get him out and they extract him. And that was the last time he saw Abu Zubaydah and he got sent to Guantanamo eventually. Yeah, he hasn't...

That was shortly... I'm just reading. It was March 2002 in Pakistan. This was like right it's hard yeah it's hard to think about this but at the time the only thing the government like knew was osama bin laden 9-11 there wasn't like a whole they didn't have all the picture of like ksm and exactly how it all went down and what the planning was say nothing saudi arabia and all that shit too but you know that's all extra stuff that we'd love to find out about but like this was like a

crazy if you're at the cia at the time or something like that it's a crazy time because you're trying to figure out exactly all the pieces and you have a you have a very on-edge, pissed-off society looking for answers. You know, so to get a guy like this, even if he wasn't quite as high up as they thought, I got to check that out. I wasn't as aware of that. I haven't looked at this in a long time. But like, you know, this was like the first, like, oh, we got one. You know what I mean?

Like, they had done an okay job in Afghanistan, but they hadn't gotten these guys. Yeah. No, I don't really know much about that sort of time in history or any history for that matter of fact other than the documentaries that I watch. They sort of just go in one – I watch them. I remember them for a day and then I forget about them. That's hard. Like you have a fucking – you have like a picture book of history in your head from like every president, every war. I don't know how you do that.

Listen, like same deal I told you after we did our podcast with you. It's like the stuff that I look at, if I go on a podcast and someone starts digging for that, all right, yeah. I'm going to talk about the stuff I've like read before. But most of the time when I have someone sitting there i may know like the for something like this where i've actually read stuff on abusa beta like i read i remember i read uh george i think it was george tenet's memoir or something it's like seven years ago he's a cia director he's the head of the cia during this time so like i saw these stories and whatever and i saw it in a documentary like at the same time it's like i may know like a broad thing but you know that once you actually like say oh here's a crazy topic that happened let me go look at that

i remember this you start reading about it you're like oh shit i don't i didn't know any of this it's like the the layers to every conflict international crisis disagreement between groups it's insane i mean i just i'm working on a book right now about isis and i'm like you're reading it yeah i'm like what the fuck i didn't know any of this i just knew isis were the crazy guys like killing people with wild videos on social media you know and they took over they wanted to caliphate like i knew the basics everyone knew the basics but then i started reading about it i'm like holy shit this took like what book is it it's called i believe it's called black flags okay it's great it's great and there's an audio book too i know you're an audiobook guy yeah i don't like reading but but like this guy had you

know he won the pulitzer prize for it the guy guy who wrote it. And it's like, this shit was developing for a long, long time. And we forget, I live in America. I can't even name some of the countries over there. And you start reading this, you're like, oh shit, there's more than Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Wait a second. And Israel, I guess, because they're always in the middle of stuff. It's like, oh, these guys are building all these other places too. And then you're questioning, well, what's true what's kind of like right some sources cooking the books right

always got a question i mean do you find yourself doing that a lot with guys you bring in especially like even like a boost amante yeah but the government yeah usually after the podcast is over i'll kind of like think about it and i'd be like man that guy that seemed kind of fishy like that seemed kind of that kind that kind of felt like a reach you know was there something from john that felt like that like a few things john um is that his name john yeah john karyaku no not really he seemed uh i mean the whole the whole the crazy thing to me is he blew my mind at the end of the podcast where he talked about how he's doing a daily show on Sputnik. He signed a contract with Sputnik and he does a daily radio show with them. Is that a Russian?

Yeah, I think it's the government, the Russian regime's radio show, right? Why did he sign a deal with them? Beats me. I think they're the only ones who would who would hire him to do to talk i don't know obviously he's kind of like a dissident right because the cia they fucked him they fucked him because he came out on abc news talking about the interrogation program and when was that i i want to go right i want to say it was 2016 right around there when he came out about it i think it was earlier it might have been earlier maybe he got out of prison in 2016 no no he got out of prison in 2015 i think but he went to prison for two years under espionage because he basically

just I mean I told you the story about how he got called by the guy from ABC and then yeah 2007 was the ABC thing

I'm just I got it behind us but he was yeah you're right he was in jail and he got out 2015 2015

so they didn't he said in 2007 and then says on October 22nd 2012 Kiriakou pleaded guilty to so they didn't – he said it in 2007 and then it says on October 22, 2012, Kiriakou pleaded guilty to – so they didn't charge him for a while. Right. They went through – he fought it for a long, long time and he only pled to one charge. Like they originally had him doing like 50 years. And then he ended up pleading – I guess he had really good, he has a really,

really good team of lawyers that he had, like some of the best fucking lawyers in the country and he ended up only pleading to, he told me he had like a final meeting when they gave him his, like his final options of what he wanted to do

and he said he stayed up all night with his wife talking about what he wanted to do and he was like, no, I'm going to fight it. I'm not going to, I'm not going to take the plea and then his lawyers emailed him back instantly and they're like, no, I'm going to fight it. I'm not going to, I'm not going to take the plea. And then, uh, his lawyers emailed him back instantly. And they're

like, we're coming to your house right now. We need to meet you at this instant, like right now. So they came to his house an hour later, team of like five lawyers. And he said, uh, after he told him why he made the decision, why he doesn't want to take the plea, he wants to take it to trial. One of the lawyers is like, he's like are a fucking idiot he goes you he goes you got this all backwards you think this is about justice it's not about justice it's about mitigation of risk he was right that lawyer was right yeah it's sad yeah but he was right there's no i mean call me a cynic you know when the government's taking care of themselves, the order of business,

nothing's off limits, man. But it's crazy. Now he's got the show on Sputnik. He said they don't censor anything he says. He says he talks about whatever the fuck he wants. He said he's never been censored on there. Is he on any American platforms? I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. You'd have to look it up. He claims he's not. He says he's been censored on YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, Instagram. I think he's,

he is on Twitter though, but basically every broadcasting platform that is in America, he's been censored on. He's been banned from. For what? Did he say like why he thinks he did but i don't remember off the top of my head and he's also got these guys that work with him who he says they're on twitter and they get they get you know how automated bots on twitter get labeled like their tweets get labeled

like automated bot have you ever seen that have you seen on elon jet if you go to elon just twitter all the all the automated tweets they have a little little one. This is like automated bot tag. I was just on that yesterday because you had the guy on. A bunch of the people that he works with that work with him on that radio show have been labeled on Twitter

as Russian state media. And they even, he says, I don't know if it's true or not, but they even put a i don't know if it's true or not but he said like they even put a russian flag in their profile like twitter next to their name twitter does and labels them russian sponsored media but then russia doesn't censor anything and the u.s is censoring everything so that's that thing that threw me for a whole fucking loop because everyone tells me russia's the one that censors everything that surprised you that surprised me yeah it didn't surprise you no because

you were talking about something else earlier and i said this but the thing i try to keep myself aware of it's hard sometimes when you're just ripping somebody who's bad but like evil people can do really smart shit not all all of them. There's plenty of stupid ones. But evil people can do really smart shit. And like with Putin, one thing that he is very – has been very, very effective at, at least up to this point, is he fucks all his own people into submission, but he will tolerate to much more of an extent than other dictators would foreign people who say some of the same things. So like Anna Politskaya, I never pronounced her name right, but Anna Politskaya, who was a key journalist in Russia, from Russia, who reported against Putin all the time, was a check to the bounds of his regime. She was murdered, shot a bunch of times in the doorway of her home they made it very obvious russian government killed her he didn't give a fuck david satter who you and i've

had on our podcasts he walks around he's fine because david satter's from america david satter arguably was saying worse shit about putin than anna but what putin does is he then uses that he uses guys like edward snowden and says like oh look at this yeah he's allowed to say whatever he wants because with a guy like snowden and by the way a guy like john too because john had a righteous disagreement by the way with the u.s government he can putin says what's the trade-off he goes okay i gotta let this guy say shit that's not positive towards me, but I get to say, look, I'm even letting a Westerner do it. And look, look at this. Like, his own country censors him.

They don't even like him. Look at how free we are here. And then people in his home country go, I guess it's not as bad as we thought. Yeah. So he changes the narrative. Now, Xi doesn't do that. Xi Jinping is incapable, it appears to me unless someone has evidence to show me it appears he's incapable of that like if an nba player says something wrong

they're out right like we cut their games but putin he understands he seems to understand political chip trade-offs i don't know but i'd have to look into this and see what it is i just think it's putin seems like a fun guy why does the fucking propaganda video watch the oliver stone interviews with yes i've seen i've seen some of it but i haven't seen the whole thing because he's like a smart dude seems sharp seems intelligent seems like he's fit so he works out every single day he works out every day karate expert okay i'll give him that but he's not like... He shows people what he wants them to see. It's like any other... I mean, you look at like...

Just like anybody does. Sure. That's what everybody does. Look at Kim Jong Il's or whatever the fuck his... Kim Jong Un's videos. He's riding on a fucking white horse and looking at 1995 computers all excited and going, Ooh, bomb! Yeah, exciting!

It's got nice music. Of course, he looks like a great guy. Kills all his people. It's just like they show you what they want. It's no different in any government. I don't look past that here. But it's like, you know, we have such a weird thing. This is just my opinion.

We have such a weird thing going on where it's like conflict growth. They need to make it, right? So, you know, it's not good enough for the media to be like wow this is fucked up like look what putin's doing in ukraine they need to suddenly be like we in america are all ukrainians and like there's nothing wrong there's not a single wrong thing wrong in ukraine not one thing it's the perfect country everything's beautiful there and putin's just putin's hitler and what you do is you then turn people off who are like, well, that's kind of crazy. That's pie in the sky because it is.

And then it's like form the factions and everyone fights. And now they're suddenly like, oh, shit, we overcooked that one. We got to get the attention somewhere else. Oh, someone leaked the Roe v. Wade thing. This is what they do. It's like, what do they call it on Twitter? The current thing. you know it's just like in some ways we're all at fault though for it because we just too many of us just let it happen and get caught up in the moment for 280 characters to

make ourselves feel good yeah i told you about the documentary i've been watching the latest one called can't get you out of my head which is is wild and It's a great history lesson for someone like me as an idiot doesn't anything about history. Oh, is this the now one? Yeah it's about Mao and Jang Fucking I want to say it's like Jang Ching It's called can't get you out of my head. I think her name is Jang Ching It's basically it's Mao's wife and basically the whole documentary it's a six-part series and it basically it shows who was mao again who was the china guy

mao zedong he was the china yeah china he was the fucking whatever the president of china and um it talks about the whole history of China and his wife jengching where she came from how she came to be and it it kind of like shows the connections between individualism capitalism nationalism and like the rise of conspiracy theories and how the purpose of the original conspiracy theories that were created. It talks about how the whole Illuminati conspiracy theory was created. Can you explain that? At least what you've seen. Truck Month is on at Chevrolet.

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joke about the illuminati i've never done a deep dive on that i don't remember i mean the illuminati part was just kind of they kind of glossed over the whole illuminati part but basically the illuminati was just a way to discredit a lot of things that were happening in like the ruling class or like just to like for for the lower class citizens to sort of like the it talks about it talks a lot about conspiracy theories how like the connection between conspiracies and conspiracy theories the problem is there's tons of conspiracies there are tons of real conspiracies but the problem with conspiracy theories is that there's no limit on conspiracy theories like there could be so many conspiracy theories and they're the same thing as the conspiracies because you don't know if the conspiracies are real and you don't know if the conspiracy theories are real and it shows just the evolution of that and like the human mind and how it's evolved from from mao or even before mao from like early china to now

and it basically it shows what's going on in each empire and it shows like the rise of imperialism and the american empire and the banks in the 90s and it just basically shows what's going on in each of the big empires in certain times uh in certain times throughout history it goes back and it shows all the failed revolutions and it even shows like tupac's mom yeah fanny yeah fanny do you really i don't know should i i'm just gonna like regurgitate what I can remember I mean you look over I'm the biggest Tupac head of all time look behind the thing oh yeah oh yeah yeah so yeah it shows her and it shows like how they basically got set up

and went to court and how she represented herself in court and and all in this maldoc all in this maldoc bro it covers everything it's so hard to follow she was a panther she i mean she was like you know yeah she was in the middle of all that and there but there was somebody there was like a there was a cia agent in their group like a provocateur who was trying to set things up there was nobody really doing anything like there was a fucking in a government ci or i don't know if it was ci or fbi but there was some sort of insider a provocateur in their organization trying to set shit up set up these shootings in these shopping malls and stuff like that and then when they went to court

she points that out she's like look you were the one who conspired, who created this plan, not us. And she got them off, which was crazy. I mean, it just shows so many parallels and it shows like, just like so many times throughout history where there's all these coincidences and it's again, I probably only got, I only probably, you know, retained 20% of the whole fucking documentary so far. I have to go watch it three more times to actually really grasp what happened. It sounds like a lot of important themes. It's really good.

There's a lot of intertwined narratives in that documentary. And I'm only on episode four. So get back to me. Think about the symbolism on it. The term conspiracy, obviously, it's been around. But the idea of conspiracy theory was vastly spread far and wide at the behest of the cia not accusing anything here wink wink after the jfk thing right oh yeah he's in a huge wink wink

of course he is right so they they wanted they wanted to create a term that was a dismissal right so when i say conspiracy theory under the same cloak you can put people who believe in flat earth and people who believe that something fishy happened with jfk these two things are in no way equal one is filled with a bunch of morons the other one is filled with sincere evidence even if people don't know the exact thing which i think we actually can point to at least some of the exact things there but either way let's pretend we couldn't we know some fucked up shit happened there's no such thing as a magic bullet that's bullshit right like we know there was some sort of forces at play

and a sitting u.s president was murdered but those people can be dismissed with one term immediately right same way by the way that anytime you would i would see this in like 2017 2018 2019 as trump's presidency was going on anytime someone disagreed with like a mainstream like anti-trump narrative they were a trumper oh that's a trump supporter yeah right like they would just tag someone ultra maga yes ultra maga and now you've seen it start the other way too like someone's like oh that's a leftist anytime they say something that's like or a libtard or something anytime they say something that's like against the right word narrative because over time we see reactions have reactions man like what do you expect like that's what people do and so now we have a situation where politically

we're like that but then even on conspiracies i mean people have access to more information good bad and indifferent than ever before online and people will form narratives and so i try to look at like in studying like how regimes over time this is why this documentary is so interesting to me it's like how if regimes utilize that that doubt right like that little seed of doubt to say like nah it didn't happen or like what you saw not real To be able to grasp power and get people – like start with one lie and then people believe all the lies. Yeah. Scary. It is.

No, actually in the documentary, they have – they show all this archival footage. That's what this guy, this guy Adam Curtis, he's like a BBC filmmaker, documentarian. Oh, it's a BBC doc. It's – yeah, produced by the BBC. Wow. bbc wow um but what he does is he uses this archived footage and he pieces together these documentaries with just like weird artsy b-roll archived footage and dope music and he and he basically narrates it and strings it all together with his voiceovers he like writes a script that he does a voiceover for and tells the story. It's pretty good.

Are there a bunch of episodes of this? Or what's the... This specific documentary has six episodes, yeah. They're all on YouTube, by the way. You can watch them all for free. Wow. They're like an hour apiece? Yeah, about an hour apiece, yeah. This sounds great.

There's tons of footage of Lee Harvey Oswald's best friend. Who was his best friend? Another guy that he met in the military. I forget the guy's name. But the guy basically created this whole conspiracy about Lee Harvey Oswald being pro-communist and all this stuff. And there was a conspiracy theory

that he was putting forward, that he was putting forward that he was publishing called operation mind fuck the friend yeah lee harvey's friend have you heard of operation mind fuck never yeah so i can't believe that's where they published it yeah back then back then yeah and apparently it ended up being something that he was tricked into publishing by the cia dude i'm telling you this fucking thing goes deep well you know one time we got a like corner boost amante somewhere wearing like dark clothes with sunglasses on in a dark room with a candle and say you can't leave until you tell us the cameras are on we should definitely do that yeah he would know it's us though you should tell him that there's some enhanced interrogation techniques out back waterboarding

jim diorio back there waiting for him uh the things like do you think that happens like the cia like you have like a orientation but then a real orientation like here's all here's all the shit we did i don't know man i don't know i mean how many people work for the cia i was thinking about that i don't know i haven't googled that yet i mean i'm sure there's a lot there's gonna be a ton of pencil pushers right that work in the off like the main the main office. There's no way we know the real number. I think that's what Kiriaki started doing. He was like a pencil pusher at first, research analysis type guy.

Andy says that, but Andy's like pretty, I don't know if you talked to him about that. He's like very adamant about that, though. He doesn't like that term because he wasn't that, by the way. He obviously, like, he was undercover. But he's like, you have to understand to understand like that's not really a thing like the people who are sitting in langley even like literally at the main office like they're doing wild shit it's not just that like the secrets that they're exposed to every day that they have to build on top of is absurdly high so he was like we're all spies yeah he's like let's get that straight it's not just me doing undercover so i think that's a little different because you could definitely like about the fbi

and stuff i mean talk to jim like there's a lot of pencil pushers a lot of people doing no shit right but the cia it's like their goal is totally different they don't give a shit about arrests you know unless you know someone like abu zubaydah they want to have them here forever to talk to them whenever they want right for their own means but like they want sources they want people who can give them information can give them an idea of what's going on and they're willing to let they're willing to have trade-offs for that you know what i mean yeah that's the moral question yeah i have no idea what the initiation process would be like but i know they would never let me i know i would never make a cut make the cut no they would never

talk to me no absolutely not i like i'm the i'm the guy with the dark google searches i'm out right away yeah so like at 13 this kid was googling al-qaeda come on nope we're out the thing you said about the thing you said about um putin purposely letting american dissidents into his country and to speak on their rate their national radio station it's super smart because there's no are there any are we doing that in any way i I'm trying to think. Yes. Yeah. I can't name people, but we absolutely – well, I would say like a guy like Navalny and before him Boris Nemtsov, like the key political opponent was always raised profile here, which by the way, I thought was great.

That was very, very important because there, I mean, Nemsov was murdered by Putin in Russia. So there's, who is Nemsov? Nemsov was before Navalny. He was the head of the political opposition for years and years in Russia.

Okay. So, and they, and that's the thing, like they tried to discredit him left and right. And they tried to do the same thing with Navalny. I don't know as much about Navalny, just being honest. He was a YouTuber.

I have no... Honestly, like... Yeah, he had a fucking amazing YouTube channel with millions of views. I mean, he posted every Friday. I'm not educated on Navalny. He was the Logan Paul of Russia. Hilarious. But Nemtsov was like an old school guy.

I know his history a little bit. Like, a little bit. But, you know like these guys are the political opposition and they were of all knees in jail over the prison over there and and nemsov was killed and it's like well we raised their profile is that the same thing not necessarily but like as a guy like what's it what was the name of the guy jack uh the guy you had on barski yeah vaguely this vaguely the same thing i think it's a little less significant than snowden right but that's kind of the same thing but he spent

like he spent very little time in russia i think he spent like a maybe a month or two in russia but he was a spy here right he was a spy here you know but he had he had virtually zero communication with the russians like he was in Germany, got recruited in Germany. But they trained him. Trained him in Germany. Yeah, yeah. Then they finally flew him to Russia for a couple months, and they sent him off to the U.S. Still, like, they trained him heavily.

He was a KGB asset living in the U.S. I mean, those are golden children. Like, they treat those, and that's why they were trying to get him out. Like, he talked about that, and they kept on putting the sign in the subway. Get the fuck out right it's it's i'm sure it's the same way that andy describes the cia like the cia does not want to lose an asset it's it's not even they don't give a fuck about the person it's the money right training and the time you know yeah it's so impressed by the way great interview with that guy oh thank you really really good but that that dude i just shut up in the interview is great the things that that they were able to get him comfortable to be able to do like

even like own some of the accent but still be american i forget what the cover story was like it's his mom or something but he was raised somewhere else and he got like that's a hard thing to lie about like it's such bullshit and he was able to live no problem for i guess like decades here yeah the crazy thing is how he moved here and he just basically left his wife and his firstborn child in germany yeah and like just walked away from that when he met some new lady and had a new kid here like that came in a fucking imagine doing something like that i think a lot of these guys are inside i don't know how i wasn't there but i think they're trained in some ways if it's even possible to be somewhat desensitized towards that however like when this is my perspective hearing him talk i I wasn't there. You were there. Maybe you'd have a better feel. It felt like to me, to this day, there's a small piece of him that that bothers him.

Like it really – he's still a human. Like even after all that, there's still like a little bit of you that's a full human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that shit has to follow you especially when you're a guy who's his age you probably he's probably been through so much shit and then you really have no choice either you're fucking the kgb sent to the u.s what are you

gonna do you can't just ask them to come i mean you already ignored their call back to russia i mean there's no going back now you're gonna be stuck yeah it's weird such a you know the other thing is like we say there's no rules in the agencies here and to an extent that's right but like there's really no rules in places that like aren't democracies or something they do whatever the fuck they want. I mean, they may not like losing you, like I said, but if you step out of line and you're a threat, your whole family could be gone. Yeah. Which I don't say is impossible here, by the way.

No, it's not impossible here. It's not impossible. I don't know. It's hard to have a real good perspective on the U.S. when you're living here, when we're sitting here in New Jersey in the podcast studio. It's really hard to know when we're watching all these documentaries about all these other fucking crazy corrupt empires. Not to know. I mean, we do know a little bit, but people like Oliver Stone just get called like anti-American conspiracy theorists.

Listen, I think I told you this. I call, and I don't even like using this term because I don't like the connotation, so I always like to qualify it. I think Oliver Stone is a necessary evil. He is so jaded from being in Vietnam and seeing the worst of the worst. And so he is definitely,

I mean, the guy's like, Barack Obama's a war criminal, he should be in prison. Like the guy is a little – he's overboard. But he is unafraid – like if Oliver Stone shines the light on something that happened and he makes it sound like World War V, but 10% of it has validity and people aren't talking about it that's worth it to me yeah right i'll be like okay over that part all right you didn't even support that but okay all right i see i see like it's so he'd be so interesting to talk to but some people they can't like oh he hates america yeah he doesn't have the best opinion and people could say he

got rich here and you know fed off the system and he's hypocritical but i think you have to understand like you haven't walked in his shoes he's lived his he has lived his whole life throughout his career even when he was making money he has stayed towards the same themes when it comes to that topic of like trying to be a check to the what he views as some of the falsities of democracy does that make sense yeah yeah there's things there's things that that that spark when you're young that send you on this trajectory of life like with him talking about being in vietnam and seeing how he's been sent by this evil empire to the fight this war and he's that narrative has stuck in his head and he's acted on it from

a young kid you know making movies and he's built a giant name and a giant business off of it and that's what he's good at doing it you gotta have him in it's like uh it's like like this like just like on um on the documentary we were talking about jang ching the wife of mao she was acting in plays and she was always second best to this girl who would always get the number one role and she was always super jealous of this girl super resentful of this girl and that sent her on her trajectory to become what she became leading the revolutions that she was trying to lead. She hated losing. Yeah, she hated losing.

She always felt like she was second fiddle to somebody, and she didn't like that. She wanted to be number one. And that's actually why she married Mao. They say that she played to Mao to get him to like her. And then she was climbing. It was power it was all power that basically lured her to where she was eventually going and where she eventually ended up have you heard the story of Xi Jinping's childhood no I don't know anything about Xi Jinping

he's the current leader of China I really have to study him because I don't know nearly enough, but this always struck me. When he was a kid, I believe his father was in the Communist Party. Something went wrong. He did something wrong town, in like the town square, with a sign that said like something – it didn't say this, but it was like the equivalent of like, I'm a traitor or like fuck this or whatever. And his mom had to walk by him, look at him, and say, shame on you, Xi Jinping. And I think she even had to spit on him. I'm not sure about that second part. But he lived with that shame. And then he was made fun of and bullied in school over it. And so as he grew up, he was hardened.

He's like, never again. I'm going to own all these motherfuckers. And so he's a very smart guy. Educated himself, came to America evenica even i think and got some sort of education as well and then rose up and said i'm gonna i'm gonna own all this and i'm gonna be the head of the communist party and then when he did he's got a power trip on it because he's like he lives his whole life to get back at the people who told him he couldn't and told him he was less than told him he didn't belong and now he takes that out on other people in the worst of

ways by the way in with absolute unchecked power yeah yeah it's it's that doc this documentary explores all that like the the primal motivations for power and that basically the desires of the individual and you know how that ultimately leads to tyranny it's crazy makes me think about elon musk a lot why because like the whole everything elon musk does like he's he's basically he's a god elion elion i'm sorry elion's like he's a god right now he's a fucking everyone loves him he's all over twitter he's all over everything he's like fucking space he's gonna bring us to mars he's gonna buy twitter and free us free the speech and you know creating these amazing cars these what do you think of that electric cars it makes me

think like this whole like everything this subject we're talking about now like these primal motivations and these individualistic motivations makes me wonder like is he really this messiah or is he just trying is he uh is he just trying to get pussy is he just trying to get pussy? Is he just trying to get clout? Well, what are you leaning towards? I don't know. I've never really thought about it until recently. I've just been thinking about it more and more and more and more and more.

Is he just trying to get – is he love the attention? Does he love the cloud is he just is he does he have something that happened to him in childhood that that makes him just have this tremendous tremendous desire for power and popularity and i mean he's what donald trump was three years ago right i mean donald trump was the most popular polarizing person in the world he's becoming that if he's not already in a different way i want to i want to totally different way i still want to give you a lot of credit without going there but yeah elion gets more credit for sure but trump was a he's a product of his time i think that's an interesting yeah i mean is he a messiah or is he just that's dangerous you can't do that is he uh can't do that

is he uh well i talked about this i've talked about this 30 different times already but on west world the i don't know if you've seen west world on hbo i know i'm aware of it i've never seen it basically dr ford is talking to somebody at i forget who it is but in one of the episodes he's talking to them and he's basically their goal is they're creating these humanoid type robots trying to gather information on human beings. And after studying millions, you know, hundreds of thousands of human beings and analyzing all their decisions they make in this theme park full of robots, he basically says, human intellect is nothing more than peacock feathers. He goes, look at the Empire State Building. Look at Michelangelo, Mozart, the most amazing music, architecture, buildings,

anything in the world. And all it is is an elaborate mating call. And people might come up with another story to justify it like elon might say he's trying to make us an interplanetary species or he's trying to solve climate change he's doing it all for pussy free speech he's just doing it all for pussy that's it wow interesting interesting thought wow there's a lot there but maybe you're getting to primal motives yeah i mean when in doubt the complexity of the world comes back to that what you just described what i described a couple minutes ago was yi jinping

primal motive power other people told me i couldn't fuck them i'll tell them i can power i'll get any bitch i want yeah power equals pussy that's it yeah i don't know i listen i have them on the wall below steve jobs it made a lot of sense obviously i do that when i designed this studio two years ago and i got the i got the smoking one right here on i love it and and i'm a fan but i also make damn sure to say this and i hold myself to it i'm not a fan boy we have too much of that in society in my opinion where it's like we latch on to someone so much because we love everything that they can do no wrong like he's you know he's he's a human being he's an imperfect guy you know do i do i believe business insider coming out with what appears i read it appears to be another hack job report to take someone down no but you know if they come out with better evidence or something maybe at some point i would i don't know but

you can't you have to hold people to what they say okay elon you're buying twitter because you care a lot about free speech and opening up the full political spectrum of people being able to speak and if they say something stupid they get checked in the public square that theory i agree with a thousand percent i am with you i think we should be able to make like if if all those people who were in charlottesville in 2017 are tweeting whatever the fuck they want i think we should be able to make fun of them. I think that's great. Yeah. They're morons.

Totally agree. They're such a small percentage. Fuck those people. Like, that's hilarious. Like, what an idiot. You know what I mean? It's not funny when they do something violent, but, like, how do you get rid of those people? You laugh at them.

Right. Because then kids see, like, oh, they're getting laughed at. They're not taken seriously. There's no power to that. Right. because then kids see like oh they're getting laughed at they're not taking seriously there's no power to that right you know but if you shut it down if you take it away then some people you know their mind starts going and they start going oh i wonder what that's like i wonder why they're doing that they must be threatened those guys must have power so like now if elon's coming in and that's the true motivation here great that's what he says i'm gonna hold

him to that you know but if he's doing it he's doing it to get pussy like you know and that might be an oversimplified way of putting it but it's not you're not nuts that's that really the way you describe it like it's not crazy and don't get me wrong i love elon i fucking i have a tesla i love everything elon does i think he's cool i think he's funny i i'd like i think that's the way if you're a billionaire that's the way you should be versus fucking Bill Gates. Yeah, he's the worst, man. Yeah, I love Elon. I think he's cool.

What do you think Gates' deal is? I don't fucking know. I think he's a fucking nerd loser who didn't get any pussy. No, I don't know. Jeff got him some. Jeff did, yeah, man he uh found the found the roid the roids and he got him some a yacht rather young young blood unfortunately but yeah peers yeah he um gates gates is a weirdo i don't know i don't know enough about him to really talk about it but you know just to say that he was hanging out with epstein and um what he's doing with trying to buy up all the farm apparently

he's buying up more farmland in the u.s than anybody right now because he wants to create uh fake meat or something what's the deal he's all about veganism and he's like trying to get rid of i mean i understand getting rid of factory farming. Obviously, that's fucking shitty. That should be – It's horrible. That should be eliminated. People that haven't looked at that shit, it's so fucking bad. But what he's doing – I think he bought – he invested in the Beyond Meat stuff and he's trying to simplify or consolidate all of the food processing into one thing he's basically trying to be the the fucking i don't know the one stop shop for all

processed food in america but i'm not 100 sure on that that's a legend i mean he owns i forget what the exact percentage is but it's at least one percent of the farmland that's it at this point i mean that's that's a lot. Okay. He owns one out of a hundred. Imagine if one person owns one out of a hundred farm fields. Yeah, true. Right?

Like when you get over the bridge in Bumblefuck, New Jersey, how many fucking farm fields did you count? Yeah. Past 100 right there. He owns one of them. Right? Like now extrapolate that. He's just like...

He's... You're right. He's a total nerd. I think that's fairly obvious. But his body language at everything is like, if I'm the 12-person jury, I mean, am I even listening to the witness on this thing i'm looking at him going that motherfucker is guilty as fuck and i look people said the same thing about amanda knox you know some people just unfortunately have that but like when you're

that powerful and you go out of your way to do things in public and talk to people and do interviews with places that are paid off by x y and z and Z. It's like, which one is it, man? Yeah, I don't know about him. I haven't thought much about that guy other than what I've seen or what I've heard. But yeah, weird. Billionaires. Steve never liked him either. Steve Jobs?

Yeah, he didn't. They had talked. Bill was in his kitchen towards the end of his life having a talk and making peace and all that. Really? Yeah. But I don't really, I don't really, and this is just my theory, I don't know. But if I know anything about Steve Jobs based on what other people have who knew him have described him i don't believe for a second that he ever had a even after he may have had peace and been like i can't i'm gonna die i can't really control anything i wish you well like i could believe that but

i don't think he had a high opinion of bill and i do wonder because i think everyone unfortunately is subject to environmental changes that can go bad. And I don't think Steve is any exception to that, especially because he had a lot of flaws himself, by the way. But I do wonder how he would have handled our world over the last decade, like especially with his invention to what he would have thought of that. I don't think his intention was for society to be addictively brainwashed by something. Whereas, I don't know, it's just a vibe I get.

When I listen to Bill speak in general about things, I feel like it's the opposite. Bro, have you seen that new fucking Apple commercial? No. You have to fucking play it. Is there a way we can both like watch it and comment on it fuck yeah bro pull up the new apple i think it's the privacy commercial where it shows like an auction you haven't seen that one someone put a meme out of this dude it

is good it is a good fucking commercial solid strong move two days ago strong move came out two days yeah i think, I think so. All right, hold on. This is a brand new machine here I'm playing with. A fancy new M1 Max Pro. Yeah, baby. Can't afford it, but need it. But yeah, it shows the auction, and people are auctioning off this fucking girl's DMs, her shopping, browsing history, and all this stuff. It's fucking genius.

Oh, yeah. Is this it? I don't know. I can't see it. It's over there. Yup, this is it. They did a little play on Godfather Music there. It stopped before they dropped. The start of a world of... What priceless data do I hear for 8500? Sold. Allocation data. It's not creepy, it's harmless.

Do I hear 620, 640, 660? Sold. What? All her contacts, even sweet mother. Sold at 740. Her recent transactions, her browsing history. I think my texting habit. Sold!

And now the one you've all been waiting for. And I can promise you won't be disappointed. how fucking solid is that they did a great job but they really hit a nerve there didn't they i like to call them uh can you say this anymore i'm just i apologize if this is like whatever but i like to call them a dwarf among midgets they are the best that's from what does that mean the tallest midget yeah no it well it means you ever seen it was a family guy cut away that's where i saw it okay it was like you're like a dwarf among midgets and it cuts to a guy in a cereal box and they go john can you reach that why yes i can so i always use that but like apple is the best they are statistically of all the companies on privacy that solidifies it right there oh yeah and that that was a great fucking ad they want to convince you that but like they're the best ads they do still have some problems but like

you know i do feel like we have to play, unfortunately, lowest common denominator with stuff because it's like they're the dwarf among the midget. They still utilize all our data. They still – I'm going to get myself in trouble if I try to go fully into details. But they still basically package our data and send it to other people and allow it to be used. I don't – Justin Baker was in here and was talking about it, I think, like episode 57. Who's he? He's the CTO of Soar. They are a volumetric capture company.

They do holograms. Oh, you told me about this earlier. Yeah, they have like the fastest compression algorithm in the world. He's amazing. Like he's just – he's a galaxy brain. And he knows – he also is very aware of the – like he's not someone who lives in Silicon Valley and sits there and drinks the Kool-Aid of everything. He's like, well, no, this is a problem. That's a problem.

What are the holograms used for? Well, it's so new that they – Like Tupac dancing at Coachella? No. That was fake. That was fake. So they did a 2D play on the eyes. That was in 2012 i didn't know this but when i had anthony

on the the founder of that company he talked about that he was like no i i'm very aware of exactly what happened there they did a play on the eyes that made it appear a hologram and i can't remember if he said that the people there could tell it wasn't like the people who were actually in attendance but someone could tell it wasn't and like he knows the guys who who did that but they the amount of data that's required to capture like this right now like 3d is obscene it doesn't believe it or not it doesn't take expensive cameras well that doesn't mean it's not a hologram though i mean technically a hologram that's what it is a play on the eyes right no it's just lighting and no well no well and i explained that wrong i'm sorry i'm saying like it was a play on the eyes that made a 2d object appear that it had volume to it but it

didn't like if you had been standing next like he said what he did say snoop dogg who's on the stage knew he knew that was not a hologram. He was standing right next to it. From the audience perspective, it looked 3D. Yes, exactly. Well, let me ask you this. If something looks 3D, how do you know it's not really 3D? And is it not 3D? If something looks 3D to you, isn't it 3D?

If you're in person, you will know it's not. Then that's the idea. I can't remember if the audience knew, but Snoop knew because Snoop was next to him so he's standing right next to him so if you're in person you know and we're going to be at a point where you can really tell based on how the object interacts with the environment on an image on tech like you know on mobile or something like that but you know baker was running through some of that with me i can't remember i can't remember all the details i'll have to pull that up but you know apple's done some good things like i one thing you should talk with jim about because i was unaware of this until he brought it up on a podcast

but not number 100 the time before that when he was in here i found out that he was one of the agents leading the san bernardino iphone investigation into the terrorist out there so in 2015 when they when that guy killed like 13 people and then killed himself he had an iphone and jim good man moral man loves america longtime army ranger fbi agent he wanted the fucking iphone unlocked his job save american lives right i'm a good guy give me the fucking iphone tim and tim cook was like no i'm with you i know there's got to be information on that iphone i want to give it to you but if i give it to you it's a slippery slope because then who do i give the next iphone up of whose via whose privacy do it this is a bad terrorist we can agree on that but

who do you convince me to agree on it next someone not as bad yeah and like i always tell jim i'm like jim the problem is if i just had to give you that power i give it to you all day i know you're not going to do anything right but i'm like the problem is if i give you that power not only do i give every other person at the fbi that power and therefore the government exactly everyone who comes after you right is everyone you ever worked with a good guy he's like no i said okay well there you go same argument with andy by the way same argument with andy yeah yeah i mean it becomes something like it becomes something completely different when there's you know is it are we really in a democracy when you basically have corporations running the country because corporations are they lobby and they get these people in power and then

they make their decisions based on what these corporations are paying them to do or these laws these corporations are basically putting it that's another thing like going back to the fucking documentary i'm talking about a million times but they talk about like where how we mass democracy has has evolved into what it is today based on money strictly on so now it's not a democracy we're run by all these corporations that have quote-unquote politicians or government in their pocket and it's what i mean and this even goes back like i think it's a good idea i think it would be great if elon bought twitter but isn't elon super beholden to the government like doesn't he launch military isn't he super reliant on launching military satellites into

orbit and isn't tesla super reliant on federal grants so the word completely is strong so i won't use it but it's heavy yeah heavy yeah it's a great point you bring up yeah i mean he's not rich by accident i mean he saw a huge opportunity there to make a lot of money with spacex after the end of the shuttle program and he's also saudi aside we know that there's richer people in saudi who we don't know what they're really worth but if you don't include saudi arabia and like the uae he's not among like the rankings he's not really the richest man in the world because so like an overwhelming amount of it is on paper right it's all stocks yeah right like i knew when i worked at bank of america i did not have access to any of this this was not through bank of america employees telling me this i found this

out from outside the bank he had and this is now three years ago maybe when i found this out he had three rolling lines of credit to pay for his lifestyle which his lifestyle is his business right so it was around it was in the ballpark of 500 million it was i believe i believe it was a lot of credit yeah bank of america ubs and maybe one there was one other i think it was i could be wrong on the names but like i told people i'm like that's wild because like you hear 500 million dollars oh that's a fuck ton not for that guy think about all the shit he does think about all the shit like all the play you had on the guy who who tracks his jets all the times he charters jets pays for it like outside the

business and stuff you know or like has to put money through the business to pay for it or even beyond let's assume all that's paid for from the business his whole life is being in the middle of crazy situations his security team has to be insane the people he has to pay around him to get insulation from basic shit so like you know he's taking lines of credit i'm not saying like people wouldn't take easy money on that like bezos may very well do the same thing but the connotation was when you look at his assets so much of it is tied up in into stock that he hasn't traded and like look at how he's buying twitter i haven't looked at the full breakdown but a lot of it was based on like

levered or not levered it's was based on promise like Tesla stock. I heard he was selling SpaceX stock or promising space stocks and SpaceX. Maybe I, I don't, I have to look at it. That's how a lot of these guys live though. You're like, you don't,

you think that they're, they're not just living off their bank accounts. They're fucking, they, they finance everything in their lives. They're good. They're car payments and they're fucking the coffee. They buy itdonald's on

it's all credit everything is all bank bank loans and credit cards and and lines of credit from banks like their assets they leverage their assets to pay for their lifestyles if you are a smart guy that's how you should do it and you absolutely but let me paint this this scenario if you're a smart guy and you know you're a more aggressive investor you're very rich you know and not even in the investment business in another business but with your money you're an aggressive investor so if you're 50 years old if you are looking to search the web privately and not have all these websites track you when you leave, check out my friends over at Privato VPN. Privato VPN is the VPN company that gives you full privacy

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And you're allocated to 95% stocks, which is not recommended for the average human psychology, but you're smart. You know you make 40% on a good year. When the market hits shit's the bed, you lose 60%. But if you made 40% for seven years in a row like you live with it and it'll recover overall if you're diversified right if you know that you're not going to sell in that situation and panic like a bitch wouldn't you agree that taking a loan to be able to keep your money in stocks rather in cash to pay for something means you're gonna get richer yeah yeah so the quote it takes money to make money i didn't know that in college i knew the quote

but like i didn't understand how that worked i learned it in my career because i would see these guys call up and basically get free money i'll never forget one there was one dude not my client someone else's client worth billionaire right he was building he has a public company so he's got a lot of stock tied up in that he's got plenty of stuff like tied up in a lot of places that he could pull out some not necessarily his company but other stuff. No problem. But he goes to build a house in a very, very wealthy sector of America, we'll call it. The Hamptons. You're good. You're very good.

That was it. So that could mean a lot of things. But he goes to build a house in the Hamptons and we'll say it was in the ballpark of – he wanted to do a knockdown and a rebuild. So his ballpark full project was like $35 million, $40 million. Yeah, another day at the office for him. So it was like half and half. It worked out that way somehow I think where it was like the full knockdown including redoing the land itself and redredging shit was like roughly half of the full price and that building the house was the other half something like that or buying the house was half and then i forget but it was like half and half

and he goes all right i'm gonna pay for the first one in cash because why not but the second part he's like he said to his advisor he's like i got i got a stock portfolio can you give me a loan on that the guy's like yeah loans are at like 2% right now. Yeah, free money. So for a year, he paid 2% divided by 12 a month. No principal. He was handed a $15, $20 million check. Paid for everything.

House got built. And then one day he's like, yeah, fuck it. Hands in the money. Stocks went up during that whole time and the loan was dead. Isn't that amazing? I was like, that's how it it happens you need money to make money right how crazy is that it's it's it's so funny how you know even like a lot of people that have a ton of fucking money you're dumb when they like they just buy this massive house or this fucking expensive car like, oh, yeah, I paid cash for it.

A lot of people learn once they make a lot of money and lose a lot that, no, you should have just fucking taken a loan out on that house or taken a mortgage out on that house when you can basically get the money for free. You're borrowing it for virtually free, for nothing, for the interest payment, for 1%, 2% on your home loan, which you could have gotten a couple years ago or on uh on a car loan or whatever but no it and that's and that's it like you and i were talking about how i hate debt earlier right before the podcast that's because i'm poor yeah i don't like owning anyone anything right i like to know that my balance sheet is just what i'm looking at so i don't i don't do debt i pay my credit i pay something on my credit card i pay it immediately like i'd pay it at the store i come home paid yeah when i have money damn right i'm gonna lever like being able to take advantage of low rates and be able to make money on cash in the interim that is not a part of my rainy day fund right when you don't have money

everything's a rainy day fund right but like you have to you do have even if you're someone who doesn't like that which i inherently don't you have to recognize that because when you get to that that layer where it's like oh i can make seven percent against two or nine percent against three whatever it is you have a spread now i, why the fuck do you think loan sharks are so successful? Exactly. Exactly. There's some other guy who is like, it was legal. It was legal.

He wasn't connected or anything. Perfectly legit guy. But he would like take out money on his stock portfolio, pay 2% and then loan it out on the street to guys who couldn't get loans for like 15. It's just making us perfectly legal. All done through the bank, everything. It's amazing to me how some people can just make money. I just lost my headphones. Take this right here.

See this thing? Go like that. You see the middle? Yeah. Is it back? Oh, yeah, I'm back. Matt Cox was driving him nuts he had a panic attack

he was like mid-taught I actually took it out because he was playing with it for like 2 minutes and it flew no one would notice it was there he is high maintenance he was like halfway through a point so then I'm going in to get my social I gotta tell you I fucking hate this thing

listen this is fucking terrible I don't know what you need to fix this i'm like oh you got to put it right there it's like i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm real high maintenance oh my god man dying but anyway so funny no that's another funny he's a he's a i love that guy but he's so funny i mean that's another thing he'll he'll i think everything that motivated him to do everything that he did was his height. Yes. And his father. Have I talked to you about why are – maybe I asked this to Matt Cox. Shameless plug for you, by the way.

Huh. People should go to YouTube right now and search concrete Matt Cox. How many podcasts have you had him on? Probably 12, roughly, 10 or 12 maybe. And you had him on? Probably 12, roughly. 10 or 12, maybe. And you have him on about all different shit because he's a writer, too. Yeah, I've had him on to talk about pretty much every one of his books that he's ever done. He's, every episode that I, and I haven't listened to all of them for sure.

I've probably listened to like four, something like that. They're phenomenal. So people should check those out. But go ahead. No no what was I saying uh some of the most like murderous or insane people in American culture or not even just American culture just in the history of the world have been short people yes like Charlie Manson yeah who is the guy the uh the French Invader Napoleon the five foot two Napoleon yeah I used to I mean there's there's so many of them that are that are all short and I asked this to Matt and he went on this tirade for like 30 minutes on why it is and how that basically you know that was a big part

of what motivated him and and you know he's looked into getting fucking leg extension surgery he's actually like we went to the website on my podcast and he's like yep i've been on this website i know everything about this website i know everything about this doctor these butchers are fucking cutting into people's femurs and extending them by like two inches bro he's yoked matt oh yeah he's super jacked he's jacked he's like spongebob looking dude he's like spongebob when he has the giant arms he's yoked Matt? oh yeah he's super jacked he's jacked he's like Spongebob he's a good looking dude he's like Spongebob when he has the giant arms he's walking around

on his arm I don't know like he's short but like he made up for it like he's gotta chill yeah he's gotta relax

yeah he does have to relax he's got gray hair like he's got the he paid for that he's got the whole bit yeah his hair is great and he paid

he said he paid 8 grand for that hairline that's it? phenomenal hairlineine eight thousand bucks i think in like oh four oh five but still and it's fucking kept its shape even after prison bro he's got gray hair phenomenal hair and he's dude he's like 50 54 something like that yeah he's in his mid 50s i think bro i was not i had to check that after i'm like shit like he's like you mid 50s i think bro i was not i had to check that after i'm like shit like he like you're doing all right man like good job because you're supposed to like age like fucking crazy in prison he's one of the right he's he's uh he's got something there's

something about him he took that opportunity the first time he came on my podcast his podcast was like the most viral podcast ever done because he got like i think hit a million views in like the first two weeks i think i posted wow and it just went nuclear but he took that opportunity and fucking ran with it like no other he's turned that into so many opportunities for himself he was in like three months later he had these rich dudes flying in puerto rico to talk to their company like they were paying him to fly he's smart man to talk to people then he got this promote he got he became like a brand ambassador for home title lock he got paid to to talk to all kinds of companies be on so many different podcasts and i mean he's built his own youtube channel he's got like 50 000, he's built his own YouTube channel. He's got, like, 50,000 subscribers.

He's making a living off YouTube now. And, dude, kudos to him. More than that, too. He's really taken that opportunity and ran with it. Look, he capitalized on it. But, like, as a human being, like, I'm proud of that guy, too. Because he was, like, a textbook scumbag, right? Like, just stole people's identities and everything

and it was all based out of pride as he said pride type things which had to do with his height had to do with his dad and and you know that whole relationship there but like he is one of the most self-aware people i have ever met in my life he will say things and you've been with him a lot more than me so i'm sure you can think of a lot more examples than i can but forget on camera he said a lot of things on camera that it's like you'd be like damn you're saying that out loud like he doesn't care he'll tell you this is what's going on up here i'm telling you like i'm predicting like the things that he would have held in when he was a criminal like he says now to hold himself to it in a way but then even off camera like he was taught he talked to me about threshold on the podcast and then we talked about that afterwards like criminal threshold

and he's like my criminal threshold is sick i mean if i'm unless i'm wrong about you it's significantly lower than yours meaning i am willing to get everyone is capable of a crime at some point if a mother can't feed her kid and they're on the back road back corner like she's gonna steal bread to feed the kid right like everyone's capable of it as he explained it but he's like my threshold is much lower because i have something to prove right and so when i got out of prison even after all that and actually having to reflect on what i did and understand like who i hurt and all that like it doesn't mean my threshold changed so i have in everything i do i have to be aware of

that so that i don't do that again or not just that like something right to make money that's not legit right and i'm like like he was talking about conversations with his po and i was like damn i'll bet she liked you a lot like i'll bet she was like wow no one ever says this to me because he was like he's so legit about it and then he burned the boats he said well how can i make sure i never steal identities again well let me put my face everywhere yeah and people know that this is my experience i'll never be able to do it again and so he like he's he like set up a bar for himself like no matt you're not allowed to ever do that again even if times got really bad and it's like burn the bridge exactly i was

like i said to him before he got on before i dropped him off at the airport i was like i've never heard someone talk like that before but good for you wow very cool yeah i'm super proud of him man he really uh he really fucking made something to that opportunity nice guy too smart super smart very smart he that's the sad thing he would have been great at anything yeah he would have been great at anything yep like he could he could have he could have gone out to silicon valley and started a tech company no doubt about it like just a galaxy brain yeah guy but unbelievable storyteller he is an unbelievable storyteller super articulate super charismatic super charming i gotta piss all right we'll be right back bro i've gone a hundred and some episodes whatever it is without actually having to put the bathroom break in there

and i bring the pro podcaster in here the number one podcast i've had in here by a mile and he's like i gotta take a piss away to take a break yeah there's no you leave it in there man it's fun hilarious people like it it's going to turn anyone off. You bring something onto my bladder, though, dude. Because, like, that came out wrong. Tell me more, Julian.

Anyway, like, when we did your podcast, how long was that podcast we did? Like, three and a half hours or something? Yeah, it was almost four hours. Bro, we got done. You're like,

damn, bro, we just did, like, three hours and change. I know. It didn't feel like that long long i never had to stop to go i have the worst bladder in america like i had people we never hear it it's hidden but like there's a point at least one oftentimes two during the podcast where i'm looking at the guests going okay real quick we're going to the bathroom we're coming right back i'm usually really good at holding it but i'm fucking drinking a red bull a glass of whiskey and a giant cup of coffee at the same time we do a lot of liquid on the show so i'm like it's running through me i couldn't hold it any longer we haven't had i was

thinking about this like we always work in alcohol episodes i i don't think about it though it's very natural it's not like oh we need one it's like it just kind of happens but we haven't done one since i think like episode 86. I don't know. How many episodes have you done now? What number is this? 102 or 103. Okay.

Something like that. So what do you think happens to these podcasts now that moving forward, if Trump gets back in, what do you think happens when you think YouTube and Spotify and all these companies, they get stricter on us with all this disinformation and censoring and shadow banning and all this stuff? Or do you think it becomes more lenient? What do you think? I have no idea. I have no idea either. Look, I think it's becoming more lenient right now. I think we're kind of like they're kind of letting off. They're pulling the boot off our neck just a little bit but i think trump's gonna get back into office

you do i think so if he runs if he runs i think he'll make it i think he'll get in i think he's in the mind of running i don't i don't think he'll win and i look i i think um i'm very cynical admittedly i always have to say that on the political process i i genuinely have a strong distaste shall we say for pretty much everyone at this point you know if someone really presents me with a politician who's not a total scumbag and there's things to point to i'll be like okay you know like the the the mayor of miami seems pretty good but he's a fucking mayor you know and it is what it is the guy joe mansion is interesting you know because he doesn't he seems at least less beholden

towards just like following his party i have respect for that but he's been in office a long time so who the fuck knows but like you know we have a guy who can barely talk right now in office i think that's very bad but i think that trump is i don't think our country can handle that i can't handle maybe i don't know if they can handle it or not but who is gonna run against him that would win it's a good question but like do you have you read his blog posts no on truth where does he post blogs i is that his social thing yeah yeah yeah truth social i don't know if he posts i'm the number one app in the app store right now bro dead ass i well i i've never been on it but i don't know if

he is posting this stuff on i don't know how that website works i haven't been there but he was posting like these statements from the office of president 45 or whatever and they would show up as screenshots on twitter i started noticing i don't know maybe six seven months ago and i'd click them like someone would tweet in my feed like look at what he said or something like that i'm like okay well let's see and i'd read them and i'd be like there's no way this is real this isn't a real statement and i would go to google probably not no no no i check i go to google bup bup bup donald trump website whatever blog click it i'd have the screenshot on one tab i'd look it's word for word what's his blog called

i don't even know how to fucking blog i don't know what the fuck it's called but dude this is he's writing on a blog dude no way no it's his site no fucking way yes really i'm telling you no i'm telling like did you see the one where he put out and this one i didn't didn't bother me me as much it was kind it was very conceited but it's kind of funny like that when he got a hole in one i haven't seen that that was real right now that one that one didn't bother me much because it had no substance to it it was like okay this is him being a troll but like he puts out these tweets like the mother's day one i'm gonna pull this up i cheat in my business i cheat on my wife and i cheat in golf now fuck off it's a direct quote been confirmed by two people that's the fucking best quote ever

yeah it's i'm not gonna lie i've plagiarized that a few times on the golf course. Oh, my God. Donald Trump Mother's Day message. Now, mind you, this man, whether he's pissed off or not, he was the president, the most recent president of the United States of America. Right. All right. Am I watching something right now?

No, no. I accidentally pulled up a YouTube video. Donald Trump Mother's Day message. I want to get the actual image of it. This was a real thing. Oh, yeah, so he did put this one on truth because it's clearly a screenshot, and I know that's not Twitter. Unless someone photoshopped this, I assume that's truth.

That's probably truth, yeah. Happy Mother's Day to all, including racist, vicious, highly partisan, politically motivated, and very unfair radical left Democrat judges, prosecutors, district attorneys, and attorney generals who campaign unrelentlessly against you without knowing a thing and endlessly promise to take you down after years of persecution. Even the fake news says there is no case, or at best, it would be very hard to bring. Someday soon, they will start fighting record-setting violent crime. Love you all.

Now, click on this guy's link, though. Now, let me even... He's got a Ukrainian flag in his bio. I understand that, but, like, this was a real... I already read this statement and checked it. Like, not on truth. This is a real statement. All right.

So... If you say so, Julian. No, I swear i checked it even let me take his side for a minute and let's assume everything he said there's true in what way is that not insane to say just like you remember when biden's office put out the statement that looks like something elon would tweet right exactly exactly i think my thing's gone off for a sec but like this fucking amateur imagine imagine I don't know why that's going off because I turned that off

but like imagine if if like any president besides him ever tweet like it's mother just say fucking happy mother's day just it's not hard yeah he's nuts like I I don't at this point i'm like i'm listening to people he's got moxie talk for a minute because i gotta he's got fucking moxie julian that's what you're supposed to do to maintain the twitter cloud you gotta talk you gotta come up with some brilliant fucking statement in 120 characters or less it's gonna get retweets that's what it's all about it's not about fucking just saying happy mother's day you need the retweets i understand that but there's like and and that and by the way this is one that bothers me less like that's it's just like such a it's polarizing it's like yeah it's such a crass thing like just just fucking all right if you want to

get retweets put something funny in there that's ridiculous that makes you laugh at it like by the way like he used to do i mean that's like when i talk to people when i do my own autopsy of why at first i liked him it was because he was funny he is fucking funny he is and and he is but brilliant at trolling the fucking woke but here's the thing now like it's so ridiculous I haven't laughed in a while at shit he does. I'm like, it's not... This is crazy. By the way, it shouldn't be hard to be a foil right now.

You have an old man who can't talk in office. This is the easiest job ever. Especially if you're still interested in office. And he's like going up to the T and he's turning the other way and firing the drive in the opposite direction it's like what what are you doing i don't my point is i don't think people i think there are enough people who are just like i can't fuck this i can't yeah but you still haven't answered my question julian what was the question

who would run who could run against donald trump and beat him the fucking guy in florida will run the santo is not gonna run against trump yeah he will i don't think he will bro yeah he will and you think trump's base is gonna vote for de santo over trump no but i think trump's base is a lot smaller i think there are a lot of people. How would they be smart? What do you mean? Do you know how many people in this country right now, because of a couple issues, are so turned off by anything to the left that they will vote for anything on the right that makes sense? More people than ever, I think, are turning away from the left right now. I agree.

And by the way, to give some hope to the process, this is how politics has worked over time. Look at Bush's presidency. 06, 07, 08. Jesus Christ couldn't have beat Barack Obama. Right? Because people were turning away from that. They saw the evil that that was soup du jour of the moment but they're all the same shit like someone does something fucked up and people turn away so right now people are turning away but what i think is this time they they know what they're getting with him and now they see it's even crazier they're like this guy's out of his fucking mind there are enough people who are like this guy's out of his fucking mind yeah yeah but i think people like it it's all about entertainment you know it's all about just fucking mind. Yeah. Yeah. But I think people like it. It's all about entertainment. You know, it's all about just fucking social media and entertainment and, and getting the most possible attention that you, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a fucking popularity contest.

That's another thing. I think that the, the four year term is crazy. Yeah. Every four years you got to pick somebody who's never done it before which is a wild thing to do which makes me like i think the fucking the model of vladimir putin is better than every four years i think you'd rather have somebody for 15 years or 20 years than a new person every four years and just playing the charade over and over again the problem is he has a lot he has made himself a lifetime appointment it's not 15 20 there's no end in sight exactly there is no there is no term

right the answer is neither i agree i agree yeah the answer is and this is by the way perfect parallel my in my opinion to the right and left now like i truly believe that i really like the more and more i think about this and i try to like make sure i'm not leaning into things so i constantly talk with other people about it because i'm like well chew on this and then tell me what you think and then i want to hear their perspective you know people from all across the aisles too i want to it's not just people who are moderate i want to hear people who are left and people who are right but like i truly believe the most common answers lie in the middle really i really really do like when you average it out like look at the top line common

sense stuff like oh let's not do genocide okay yeah let's not do that like yes there's black and white stuff very human humanity common sense Right. But like everything below that that's not life and death. People try to make everything life and death, right? But I'm saying like the stuff that is like day to day how people are able to act within a society. I listen to the left and I listen to the right and I'm like, wait a minute. Hold on. If you won, you're leaving out all these people and telling them to go fuck themselves. If you won, you're leaving out all these people and telling them to go fuck themselves. But if the answer were here, none of those people have to go fuck themselves. Maybe some people have a little annoyance once in a while. Trump 100%. I think that he'd be, I mean, I would hope that he would, if he ran, I would hope that he would run against Trump and beat him. I don't think Trump,

I don't like Trump just because of how polarizing he was and how fucking just, just fucking cheap he was in the way that he, he polarized everybody and brought everybody against each other just to win, you know, to win. You know, he kind of like played a lot of his base i feel like um there was a bellwether election a few weeks ago too on this a what i might have used that

term wrong like bell i probably used that wrong but like a a sample election that gives you an idea of where it's not perfect but it gives you an idea of where people stand like you can take a small population to say well maybe that's extrapolated to a big population that kid madison cawthorne from north carolina the republican rep who talks to trump every day and is like a trumper like style everything he lost he was an incumbent he lost to another republican now that's one little it won't take long to tell you neutrals ingredients vodka soda natural flavors

so what should we talk about no sugar added So, what should we talk about? No sugar added? Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Interesting. District in North Carolina. It's only one place. But he was an incumbent.

Young, 26, 27, well-known, huge brand, an asshole, but like well-known, had a lot of vocal attention. Trump model, lost. Right. Interesting. That tells me something. Interesting. But then I see DeSanto now. Like I think people get pushed to where they are

you know what i mean like de santo at the beginning i love how you call him de santo i do that too but like at the beginning he was so ripped for some of the covid stuff and yet he was i'm not saying he was all right but he he was more right than wrong. Yeah. Than the other people. Yeah. And they kept on telling him, you're an asshole. You killed people. You son of a bitch. Even though he had like the highest old people vaccination rate compared to like New York, California, all these other high district places. And he, as a human being, what happens?

You get pissed. So then you go farther. And I see him going farther. And I hope, i hope you know yeah i hope to not see that but i feel like that's inevitable with with the left and right like they're always going to go farther yeah it's kind of like you see what gets you success or popularity and you kind of just like fall into that role or that character and you kind of become that person and then eventually one day you look in the mirror and you kind of just like fall into that role or that character and you kind of become that person and then eventually one day you look in the mirror and you're not even looking at the same person anymore you just you just keep reinforcing what gets your base riled up or

what gets you makes you more money it's like this is what this is my theory on skip bayless you know skip bayless he is so fucking cringe about like he has like everything he it's always tom brady tom brady tom brady michael jordan michael jordan lebron james is sick is the worst he's sick and it doesn't matter what it is he'll come up with some bullshit argument he said no matter how cringe it is no matter how cringe it is, no matter how ridiculous it is, it's always anti-LeBron, pro-Jordan, pro-Tom Brady. And it's like, even if you had a conversation with the guy in private, I don't feel like that's who he actually is.

But he's become this crazy polarizing sports figure because that's what got him to where he is today and now he's just skip balis is gone now he's just that guy on tv and he's become what has put him in that position when people show you who they are listen yeah this guy wrote a book 30 years ago trying to say like troy aikman fucks dudes and stuff who did skip alice did he oh yeah troy achman can stand in a room with him oh he'll kill him okay and and like he said troy even and it's not yeah and it's not like you know he wasn't it's a tough spot for troy because he's like you're making me have to be defensive about something ridiculous that i also don't care like like it then it then becomes like an anti-gay thing which

is totally unfair to you don't even want to get involved in that right it's it's like how fucking selfish are you doing that like and even if he was by the way how fucking scummy are you to do that like that's why peter t you had on bubble love sponge that's why peter teal funded hulk hogan because they outed peter teal gawker did yes i know that oh yeah really and he said fuck you yeah and it was true they added it for being gay like nobody knew he was gay before that he hadn't been public about it oh wow right and so it's not to say he wasn't going to be at some point but he did he wasn't an attention guy right and they did that to him and he's like on principle fuck you so like even if even if it was true and it's not troy igman was very clear i got a wife i got kids and which i guess doesn't

necessarily mean whatever but like he's a commentator now right yes like like that's who skip bayless always has been i don't give him any energy. He's a scumbag. He's an awful, awful, awful guy. Like, if you are doing that to make $20 million instead of $8 million, go fuck yourself. That's why I like you. Because you have a similar approach to things. You will do podcasts of a certain type of person and then go over here and not give a fuck oh i went from 500 000 views to 10 000 on this one i was interested in that one fuck it we're doing it

oh my documentaries were doing great i want to do a podcast now i'll do it you're not beholden to shit now you can't totally if if you didn't make any progress you have to at some point like you know work with okay well what things, but there's a morality to it. You've never touched that morality. You have always been like, I'm Danny Jones. I talk with people. I shoot some documentaries. This is what I do.

I hope you like it. That's how I – that's the bar I try to hold myself to. So when I see someone like Skip Bayless, compared to like stephen a smith and stuff yeah stephen a smith will still you know he knows what he's doing there's there's an acting element to it i get it but he will still go in on stuff he'll still come at the smoke right you know he'll say he's still kind of rational yes skip rationality is out the window he's a he's he's a moron but he's a very smart that's the worst part he knows he is he's a very smart guy yes exactly he's a very smart guy he knows exactly what he's doing i hate that and he always he would he would rip every single player

in the nfl or the nba for like like kairi shit on kairi for not getting vaccinated on his show and he was on Fox sports and they were just like he he was like the most outspoken guy against whenever players weren't wearing masks or whenever they weren't vaccinated skips on his Instagram like every time he got a fucking booster he posted on Instagram the guy's just so cringe, man. He plays on emotions. He's like a Trump. He's like the Trump of sports talk TV. Yes, I agree a thousand percent. Except he's super far, obviously, left.

He plays like... Supposedly. Who knows? You don't know what these guys are saying. You know how many people probably... His wife looks like him with a wig on. Please don't say it again. I can't. Come on.

She does. Come on. Google her, Ern it again. I can't. Come on. She does. Come on. Google her, Ernestine. I see that. Come on. You don't think she looks like him? Oh, come on. I can't look at that now.

I can't believe you just did that. I'm going to be thinking about that now. Have you ever seen them together in the same room? No. Oh, God damn it. It's always Ernestine. there's a difference between conspiracy theories six months exactly that's the difference oh i love that quote uh that is that's that's fair but again it's like well what are you so what do you think the next the next thing is after podcasts?

What comes after podcasts? Because before- What was it before podcasts? What was the most popular form? Was it pranks? YouTube had- There was always- There was a whole prank era, like prank YouTubers. They were the biggest thing.

You're thinking of it in YouTube form, which isn't wrong, by the way. Yeah. I don't think it's wrong. I think YouTube will last for a while. I agree. I'll actually say this. I will give YouTube credit. You know, COVID was a wild thing.

I'm not giving them credit on some of that, you know, even stuff I disagreed with. but like compared to the other platforms they get a lot of shit but from what i can see as far as looking at extreme opinions on the respective sides they let a lot go relative to the other maybe it's like apple it's a dwarf among midgets but i am for such a powerful place to fucking owned by google it's google right like okay you know my my expectations are low as fuck that's not good but like that's promising whereas you know this whole elon what it's going to be aside like it's not what i'd say about twitter right it's not what i'd say about tick tock right you know it's not the worst thing ever but i don't know to answer your question it's fascinating to me how how podcasts have just become the thing for media in the past 10 years

and it's all it's it's killed mainstream media it's killed the news it's killed television late night talk shows there's people who get it and there's people who don't that's kind of the that's the crux like i don't know if you spent like some time with david off camera or anything like when he had him down there but which one david satter oh yeah yeah yeah but like here's a 70 year old guy who came up legacy you know financial times the whole bit he's done a million does every network you know right now the donbass ding-a-ling what the donbass ding-a-ling david he was slanging it in the don boss ding-a-ling david he was slanging it in the don boss bro right this was this is allegedly this is not you said that this is not factual but like he was so

not only was he like so respectful of the process and like so he fucking came here he like flew home from paris to like be beyond this i was like wow cool but he was like wow this is really cool like he doesn't do anything like this right but he came up on all the networks and everything he's like yeah this makes sense regardless by the way regardless of like he and i talked about that we disagreed on like didn't take it personally okay you know how many people are like that not my guess i don't know i don't know a lot of these people but like from what i see seem they're not those people don't think like that yeah like people from that legacy right no they don't you're right

yeah i just always wonder what's next it's gonna be the next thing. It seems like this is almost a step backwards. How so? Because it's so primitive. This form of media. Look what we're doing right now. We're sitting here for three hours at a table talking about random shit. It's complete reverse of what it was before this. Before this, the whole YouTube algorithm was

make the videos under five minutes, a minute long. They have to be super engaging and they have to be over the top this is the opposite of that and this is basically taking over the media landscape so i always wonder what's going to be the next fucking thing and it's always the least obvious thing i'm going to push back on that actually when did you discover youtube like actually start going on when it probably 2006 when it came right when it came out yeah okay so you were day one i got the iphone one and it was pre-installed on it so 2007 me using it extensively you were earlier right like i i mean

i was on it a couple times but i didn't like wasn't like oh youtube i would say probably for me 2009 2010 is when i started to use it heavy and you know what i started using it for documentaries watching documentaries yes really now these would be playlists of a bunch of 40 minute ones i watch back to back to back or sometimes it'd be like a two three hour one what do a lot like what are a lot of your concrete podcasts so that's what i'm doing now i'm watching documentaries on youtube yeah i'm just 20 years late still but they're relevant they're more relevant than ever right i was probably a little early to it but like what are what are pocket when you have on a guy like john he's telling a wild story right right i think

you said it yourself you're like it's a it's a documentary without the editor or whatever yeah really change that's what it is but were documentaries really the thing on youtube in the truth in the 2000s they weren't the thing there's a lot of things but they were big these things had views yeah but when you think of like the whole the whole explosion with influencers and shit and you gotta have a podcast you gotta have you know you obviously you have the tiktok you have the uh twitter the instagram blah blah blah but now everybody has a fucking podcast like if you want to be big on youtube you got to have a podcast before it was it was something before podcasts what was it it was like vlogs before vlogs what was it pranks everyone was doing pranks and there was no podcast how many people

how many people stick with it yeah i've liked those people very few very few like i'm very impressed with logan that he like they weren't good at that do you like his podcast do you listen to his podcast yes not all the time it's a different vibe i i like it i i think I heard some of the early ones and they were not good. But the thing I've learned about Logan Paul, he's like anyone else. He's not perfect, but I like Logan Paul a lot because when he says

I'm going to put my mind to something and do it, he does. He's a very talented guy, but hosting a podcast is not towards the top of his list of natural talents yeah but he's you know and he has a couple other people there but like they do a good job like it's engaging it seems like the it seems like it's one of his top priorities yes and he's how many episodes is he in now who knows a lot no clue right like they

have put their money where their mouth is i respect that a lot yeah how many people do that right you know like does david dobrik have a podcast he's gonna be the next president he's gonna be president one day isn't he logan yeah logan paul president of the united states i would never bet, purposely bet against Logan. I wouldn't. I actually became a fan because I'm not a vlog guy. Right. The only time I've ever watched vlogs is to study how great content creators have pulled it off now since I've become one. I never watched a fucking, prior to 2012, I never fucking watched a blog.

Yeah. What about Casey Neistat? You never watched any of his vlogs? Really? Never. He has some of the greatest vlogs. i've seen some now but like i was never a blog guy but like i became a fan of logan after the japanese forest thing because i could tell he had done something wrong for sure like that was that was not smart what did he do exactly if i'm remembering correctly he was in the suicide forest in japan and they came across a guy hanging like who had hung himself he was literally and he showed it from a tree he showed it on youtube and he reacted to it like he

was vlogging during the time and then oh this will be a great thumbnail yeah and he kept and it was like his reaction i if i remember correctly was like pretty you know he was struck by it wasn't like oh let me totally act here but you know to then actually afterwards think about an upload that wasn't smart right but i'm like the dude is 22 years old exactly he's been working since he was 14 he's still 22 right right right we do stupid shit oh yeah and like you could yes was part of it oh i got caught in something i didn't think about yes that's human nature but like i saw that and then he launched a podcast shortly after. I'm like, you know what? I respect this guy working. He's trying.

He's keeping his head down, and he has recognized a million times that was... He says it wasn't just that. There were other things I was doing in my life at that point that were not smart. Right. My head was a little filled. Yeah. Right? And I respect that. I was an idiot at 22. I was, my head was a little filled. Yeah. Right? And I respect that.

Like, I was an idiot at 22. I was a fucking, I was an idiot at 24. I was a fucking moron. Yeah. Like, I can't imagine, as much as I regret not getting to my thing earlier,

I can't imagine doing this. At 22. Holy fuck. Oh my god. I'd be in prison. Dude, I was such a loser in my 20s like i wasn't doing anything i mean i was doing some shit but i wasn't like you were making content i was making tons of content yeah i guess i was doing stuff but if i think about i think back now about how fucking dumb i was i'm still an idiot wait a minute wait wait wait weren't you trained by the pirates of

the caribbean guy, yeah, yeah. Underwater cinematography. Yeah, I'm going to correct you on this. But I was still an idiot. Let's talk about it. I don't care. This was a serious talent. So you, at what point did this happen? Well, I was working on Dolphin Tale.

Dolphin Tale 1. What year was that? 2011, maybe before. 2010. What year was that? 2011, maybe before. 2010. What were you? I think the movie came out in 2011. Were you like 22 working on it? Yeah, early 20s.

Yeah, 22, 23 probably. Because you had shot, you had said you shot a lot of surfing videos where you used whatever that fucking thing was called. Yeah, the water housing. And, yeah. I started working on dolphin tail and i met this guy pete zuccherini and it's weird how that the film industry works because every single the the union runs everything in that business. And every single job is protected by the union. So the underwater cinematography job is one of the highest paying rare skills that you can have in the movie business.

And there's only a small amount of them. Pete, the guy I met, shot every single one of the parts of the caribbean movies so he's the goat he's the goat of underwater cinematography 100 he's also shot a handful of harmony kareen's movies i don't know if you know harmony harmony kareen is but he's one of the best filmmakers in the world ever harmony kareen how do you spell the last name? K-O-R-I-N-E, I believe. I think there's an E. But he made Spring Breakers. He made Beach Bum.

Gummo. I'm not familiar with the name. Cult Filmmaker. You've never seen Beach Bum with Matthew McConaughey? Maybe. He's a fucking genius. No, it says... He directed a ton of gucci man videos

i didn't see it interesting directed music videos for gucci man um he's a fucking god in filmmaking anyways him and his kid go to school together he so pete was working on dolphin tail he was the underwater cinematographer for Dolphin Tale. And me and Pete were like, we had so much in common. We both grew up on the water, both love fishing, surfing, everything on the water. And I was gravitated towards him and I was obsessed with everything he was doing. I was always asking him a million questions. He was helping me out, showing me his cameras and what he was, you know, the type of things he was shooting, showing me how he built. For Dolphin Tale the type of things he was shooting showing me how he built he for dolphin tail they had to build an underwater housing that was the size of a

volkswagen it because we the movie was filmed in 3d so we had this crazy 3d red camera rig that was enormous and they had to have a giant water housing that they had to build a custom dolly just to move it around. This guy's filmography, by the way. I have it up behind you. Oh, do you really? Absurd. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro.

It's insane. It's fucking insane. Life of Pi. What a crazy movie. That whole movie was shot in water. Avatar 3 coming up. Avatar, The Way of the Water coming up. He shot Avatar.

He's been shooting avatar 3 for 10 fucking years bro black panther the second one coming up he's been working he's been working on avatar since probably 2013 i think fast and furious 9 yeah i'm going through the best names is a legend he's a legend spider-man i did I did a podcast with him on an island off Key Biscayne. Oh, that was the guy in Miami you did that with. Yes. Yo. We took his boat out to a fucking island with downtown Miami in the background.

Oh, yo. He did Deepwater Horizon too. Oh, yeah. He... All right. Any movie that has the water element in it, there's like a 50% chance that he filmed it. Anchorman 2. Oh, he did Magic City was an underrated show, by the way.

Yeah. Underrated show. He did that. That's awesome. That was about Miami. The guy who looks like Javier Bardem but isn't. Underwater Director of Cinematography is the proper title. One.

He did 127 Hours. Dear John. Look, Breaking Bad. Oh, he did Breaking hours dear john look breaking bad oh he did breaking he filmed the pool he filmed a pool scene in breaking bad remember the members yo that's like one of the best scenes in the whole show yep when she falls in the pool and yes dude this guy's done everything they flew him out to arizona just for that fucking scene how fucking wild is that man so this is like your boy oh yeah he's sick yeah people google his senate google his filmography just like into the blue i don't

know if you've seen into the blue but that's a great walker yeah with paul walker jessica fuck yeah i love that movie bro jessica that was jessica alba at her oh my god yeah pete is the man pete rules. I love that guy. Yeah. R.I.P. Paul Walker too. Yeah. He told me some crazy stories about Paul Walker.

I'm not going to talk about him. We'll talk about him off air. You can't. Paul was a. I do that sometimes. Yeah. I try not to do that. Yeah. You're better than me.

I don't want to air out Pete. After we just talked him up, we just put him on a pedestal. I don't want to talk. I don't want to break him down. I don't want to. Yeah. You can't break confidence. People. can't you can't break people yeah you can't break you can't break confidence but paul paul was kind of a crazy person um i've heard i've

i've heard he was everybody's got their shit though he was a um what's the term someone used i forget who was telling me this he was a he was like an action junkie i mean that's how he died yeah maybe yeah he died yeah he died driving a porsche yeah and he was 100 miles an hour right it was like the passenger or was he the driver i don't remember but they were saying like the fast and furious series had like a truth of his existence in like a parallel universe of course a little bit yeah i'm sure or it created it in him. One of the two. Well, yeah, maybe. I don't know. I didn't know him. But yeah, Pete, I became really close friends with Pete.

He taught me a shitload. Working on Dolphin Tale 1 was like my film school. I learned so much, including the fact that I did not want to work in the film industry. Why? Because those guys, their lives are so remote and one of the guys that was working on the movie named mickey he was a camera assistant and uh i was like his personal slave for most of the movie i basically whatever he i he needed i would do and he put it the best possible way for me. He says, because they make so much fucking money. What does a great one make on a film, on one film?

Like, let's say a three-month shoot. These guys make, the guy that holds the slate, like that, those guys make, like, fucking 10 grand a week. Not bad. Yeah, it's pretty fucking good. And that's, like, low end of the totem pole in the camera department if you're an underwater cinematographer you're making an upward who knows i mean you're making like fifty to a hundred thousand dollars a week and it never ends and you and you're fucking going

to the craziest parts of the world like working with these people and doing the coolest shit swimming in the fucking middle of the indian ocean or the red sea great dude i mean it's like this one guy he this guy mickey who was the camera assistant he came directly to dolphin tail from filming the dark knight oh wow and and he what the way he put summed it up the lifestyle of those guys is they're carnies with dental plans. They're carnies, but they make a fuckload of money. But they never see their families. They're never home. They have no life outside of that traveling, working on movies in different locations.

I mean, don't get me wrong. It's fucking fun, especially if you're a young guy. It's got to be an incredible lifestyle, but I don't know how it ends up, you know, that that can't be good for later in life and trying to have a family and have kids. And a lot of these guys are going through divorces and aren't happy with their lives because they're in their late fifties or sixties. I mean, few of them make it through and, and still maintain relationships with their significant others or their kids because they have the money or the means to fly them out to every single movie they're working on. Especially if you're fucking Johnny Depp, you can basically bring your kids, your whole family with you everywhere you go.

It's another level of money. Yeah, it's another level. Good for you. But it's like working on a construction site. It's the same thing as working construction because I don't know if you ever worked construction before, but there's basically… I didn it's like working on a construction site it's the same thing as working construction because i don't know if you ever worked construction before but there's basically that was a caddy there's uh yeah you were a caddy i forgot about that joe biden um never caddy for joe caddied for some people he knows but joe was around here you were the same high school as joe

right i did yeah it's baller interesting baller They let me in there. That's all I'm saying. But working on movies is a lot like working in construction. And Pete got me into, well, he didn't get me into it. I was already into it. And he personally trained you? He reinforced my cinematography, especially underwater. He personally trained you with that? Personally trained me. Yeah, I guess legitimately trained me for sure.

That's awesome. It's like being trained by Michael Jordan. Yeah. Play basketball. Yeah, I guess legitimately trained me for sure. That's awesome. It's like being trained by Michael Jordan. Yeah. Play basketball. Yeah, exactly. I'm pretty sure he filmed Michael Jordan's documentary. Come on. He filmed the...

Does he do more than just underwater too? I think he has ventured out into being like a normal DP. I think he has filmed movies where it's not's not specifically underwater where he's the actual dp but um i mean his specialty is water water stuff what makes that besides the fact that you're literally fucking underwater and and handling not a gravity situation it doesn't have to be underwater it can be a scene where the camera is not even in the water it can be just above the water if there's any element of water it's everything he's got to be there wow yeah but what when you're actually underwater though what makes it besides the obvious of like hey you're fucking underwater and it's water not gravity and all that like and you're handling this big thing

but above ground you're handling big things too like very often you're not just doing handhelds obviously like what makes it what makes it so highly skillful to be able to do it when someone above land who does cinematography very well like phenomenal above land yeah can't if they're not trained well first of all i mean he is he's an outdoorsman i think before anything i mean the guy is the guy could probably hold his breath for five minutes he's he's been scuba diving his entire life he's been he was born and raised in miami and since he was a kid he's been jumping in the in the in biscayne bay fucking filming fish and not only free diving but scuba diving as well the guy knows the ocean like no other he knows he's trained when it comes to scuba diving and then when you combine when you combine his comfort with the ocean with the liability of being on set of a fucking multimillion dollar movie and the unions, you need somebody like him.

And the union protects that. They're not just going to take some filmmaker and throw him in the water and say, hey, just sit in the water. You'll be fine. No, the union has people like him for that job. And that's what makes it such a valuable position. Were you in the union? No, I was not. Did they ask you to come in?

No, you have to really put in your time to be in the union. You got to really cut your teeth. You got to beg to be an assistant on movies. And you can build relationships with these guys. And I could have built, I could have stayed an assistant on movies and you can build relationships with these guys and and like i could have built i could have stayed and you know begged pete to fucking carry his lunch pail with him everywhere he went and i probably could have eventually made it into the union but that's not the path i really wanted to go in my life like i didn't want to i didn't want to be

because i had already done that i already i had already traveled all over the world filming shit and going to various locations. I didn't, at that point in my life, I just didn't want to. I knew that I wanted to create my own content. I knew the internet. I knew I wanted to publish it on the internet eventually. I was already publishing some stuff on the internet. I was already doing like short films and little videos here and there on YouTube. And I didn't just, I didn't see it playing out going that route in life.

You strike me as a really, like spending time with you off camera too, like just your approach. Number one, you're a very, very easygoing guy. And when that comes to like your professional life, you genuinely like having a good time and having freedom, it seems like to me. Yeah, freedom definitely is the most important thing to me. Being in environments where there's a million moving pieces and different people who

all have the little piece of the cog of the wheel right right i think you'd be the kind of guy who's like oh god no that's a great way to put it you actually you actually nailed it i didn't want to be a cog in the wheel i wanted to do my own thing and when you're working on a movie set you're a cog in the wheel i mean look you you came off of it and like the content you created on your own i will budget by yourself and don't get me wrong if i can amazing if i could say i'm gonna end up and i'm gonna be the next pizzeria i would 100 fucking done that but it's so rare to become a guy like him you know what i mean and you I mean? But the trade-off, too. He is so fucking good, and he's made so much money, and he's got a great life.

He's got kids. He's got his whole family. Does he see them? He makes – oh, yeah. He actually does. He's so top of the food chain, he gets to pick and choose the movies he works on. He's got the means to bring his family wherever he wants to go he's in

la working on avatar for six months of the year he fucking buys a house in la and bring moves his family there how old is he he's probably i think i want to say early 50s maybe late 40s how long do you think it took him to get to that point like did he do the first pirates of the caribbean like was he there from the beginning sure i mean you can look it up on imdb but i'm pretty sure he did the first pirates of the caribbean yeah he's been doing his whole life i think he i i'm not sure exactly in my podcast he probably talks about when he first started when his first movies were yeah i haven't seen that one i gotta i gotta i'm very it's a good one it's a short one too it's only like an hour i think but there's like lots of b-roll and shit we like we took his boat out to this fucking island You were on the island. Yeah, it was like a special one. Yeah, it was super special one

Let me see if he was on the very fur. I kind of assumed he was but that was a lot that was 2003 Mmm, Pirates of the Carat. Yeah, Chris the black girl Chris of the black pearl 2003 so he was Let's see. How old was he at the time? Does it have birthday? Look, there's my video. If you Google his name, my podcast is the first video.

Oh, that's pretty sick. I can't get his age. But I guess if he's, let's say he's like 53, 2003, 19 years ago. So that means like by 34, that's not crazy late. That's pretty early to like be like on top dog. You know what I mean? Like once you make that movie, it's like, oh shit, that guy. You know what I mean?

For sure. So he's getting paid a lot of money. He has the means to move his family around. You can't count, like, you can't tell me he knew that like, yes, Johnny Depp's attached. It looks awesome. But like, you can't tell me he knew that was going to become like a fucking conglomerate yeah right you know probably not probably not but which one's your video it's the it's the first video on google this one right here no no it's a picture keep scrolling down right there up up up up right here oh this is you that's me all right so if i play this you're not going to block me for privacy. No, I'm not going to block you, bro.

Just making sure. Got to check on my people. Let me turn the... That's podcast number 34, Julian. Let me check my sound, get it on our headphones. Number 34. No, we're not doing that. Starting at just $40.

Oh, no, I'm sorry. $15. Sign up today. All right, let's get rid of this ad. Buy your own, you know, your underwater camera. Oh, you did? What the fuck? Alright, skip to 3.13.

This is more of like, kind of like a mini documentary slash podcast. It's a cut and B-roll. Oh, this is amazing. This isn't a podcast. This is how all podcasts should be done. And I learned a lot about underwater photography

in those days. Look at him, full scuba suit. I have it in the corner of the screen too for people watching. Obviously there's a point where anyone picks up a video.

I lost my voice the day before we did this. I was going to say, how much weed did you smoke the day before this? What clubs did you go to the night before? Zero. We drove there and we

were there and out the same day i don't believe you i mean i'm sure there's some people out there i know that there's some people out there doing some beautiful stuff he's such an interesting dude bro so interesting look at this be interested in dude this is features which is what i've been doing mostly the last few years when you were talking, all right, I'm going to turn this up. People check this out. It's called

The Art of Underwater Cinematography. It's Concrete Podcast, season one, 15, but it's number 34. It's because I had to delete a bunch of podcasts. Why? That Mallor guy.

He was on a bunch of my podcasts and I deleted them all. Why? We had an agreement. What happened there? I ended up selling him the series. I created a whole series called Life for Sale on YouTube and then we had a disagreement

and then I ended up selling the whole thing to him. Including, there was like 10 podcasts that we had done together. Oh, you included that? There was like 15 podcasts maybe me and him had done together, just me and him. And I gave them all to him.

I sold them all to him. You still talk with him today? Every once in a while. Not every day. I used to live with him. I lived in his house for like a year. Oh, shit. But you still have a relationship.

That's good. I wouldn't call it a relationship. We're friendly and we still talk. We still talk to his kids and a lot of people that work for him. I just saw him at a funeral a couple weeks ago that sucks yeah i hate it i hate when business gets in the middle of like cool shit i do everything i can to not let that happen but it's happened yeah it's a crazy thing i mean it happens all the time i mean stuff like like that i, it happens all the time. I mean, stuff like that. I mean, it happens with, you know, when companies like Barstool bring up big podcasts, like the Call Her Daddy podcast. And then all of a sudden, these girls who had nobody knew who they were.

And they had this opportunity to build a huge following. And they had all these assets at their disposal to build it. And they got paid for it. Now they've outgrown the nest, and they want to fly away and do their own thing. Well, you can't blame them for that. You can't blame them, but they also – Dave played that hand beautifully because he took care of them. He had no contractual obligation to come in and and be like wow you guys are really outperforming your contract he had no obligation to do that but right the right thing to

do right would be to do that right and he did now they were still underpaid relative to what it was i think he came in and he gave him after whatever it was nine months or something he went from 75k base salary to roughly for alex it was like 500k oh wow you know all the details on that oh yeah i was all over this when this was i was like whoa so i forget what the percent he changed the percentages and he gave them possession of ip at the end of the contract like he gave them a lot and it's all verified and he said it publicly and the girl the one girl and i i guess no one really knows but the one girl sophia she had another guy in her ear who was like you're getting fucked fuck he was a suit and they call it they literally called him suit man it was her boyfriend and she just wanted more and more and more. And how much Alex was in on that, I guess we'll never know. But eventually, at least, Alex was like, fuck that.

And Alex played it. She ended up playing it really, like, she's a businessman, man. She's a businesswoman, man. Yeah, it's a common theme. It's a common theme in media when that happens. She played it beautiful. And, like, it kind of kind of like i wasn't a listener of the show someone had pointed out to me maybe towards the beginning and i was like wow

like i knew how to respect it and be like all right this isn't what i would listen to right they're funny and they're really good yeah like okay they they're they're doing a great job so i listened to like three when they sent it to me and then never listened to it again and then that shit happened and then when i would check it out like after to see what it was like it's obviously way different so there's always a trade-off you know like that definitely changed the whole course of the value of what the actual show was about yeah you know yeah they're killing i mean she's killing on her spot i think she she got like how much money she got like 60 like 60 million dollars how fucking crazy is that

not crazy when you look at her numbers what are her numbers they were insane really i don't remember them offhand of what they said wow i don't even know i love spot Hey, look, Spotify's done a good job, man. I think they're coming for YouTube. I think they're going to keep YouTube honest. There is a tab now called Video Podcasts. On YouTube? On Spotify.

Oh, yeah, right. Not on YouTube. And they do video. They do do video. Have you thought about putting yours on there? All mine are on there. They're just not video yet. Not video. Yeah thought about putting yours on there my all mine are on there they're just not video yet not video yeah they're in the process they're in the process of transitioning to video at the moment i just talked to i just talked to the lady i had a conference called

the lady spotify two days ago really yep how'd that happen i emailed them i mean they talk to me they communicate with me they bring me sponsors they yeah they're helping me transition the whole fucking you and me are gonna talk off camera you motherfucker they're in the process of transitioning my entire podcast on spotify into video really yeah i'm replacing all the episodes with the video versions to be continued we're gonna we're gonna discuss this okay they're coming for youtube bro they're coming for youtube's throat so youtube i hope you hear this i do monetize an ass i do my best but i don't uh all the money i consider myself very clueless with the podcast business yeah very

clueless i was too for a long time but i mean it's it's a learning process just like anything but you can make you can make a fuck load of money by if you have if you can if you have the audience like that's the thing i like about spotify is every single one of the episodes of the podcast it's consistent on spotify yes within a few thousand yes literally everyone youtube fucking caution to the wind good luck if the algorithm likes the video and you get enough if you get enough click throughs or people like your thumbnail then your video will do good spotify it's it's not it's not like that the one thing i don't understand about youtube and i know they're trying but it makes me wonder like how out of control is the power of the algo like they don't

the algorithm doesn't know how to adjust different lengths of content so like my channel this is why i really admire how you built yours and if i had my choice and i didn't have a choice because i'm not a great documentarian and all that, but if I had my choice I would have built my channel your way because you built with some feature content that had some length to it for me, it's very simple it's all on me

I get my whatever views they send very few of my subscribers to videos and to the feed I get my few thousand views on a video I do bigger numbers on audio I'm a video i do bigger numbers on on audio that's always i'm sure you do way bigger numbers on spotify and itunes than you do on youtube yeah they're they're not not including the short way bigger like 20 000 not including the shorts yeah not including shorts i'm saying like it's not 20 000 more but yeah you know like well will

i do five figures on on spotify and apple yes like that happens but on youtube all the episodes that get a fuck ton of views are because i made shorts that went viral that had a link on them that's it so youtube then doesn't go oh wow people are coming to this episode and commenting and like it i think we'll start setting no they don't do that so the shorts actually did drive traffic to the long thousand percent what about tiktok it's a different app the conversion rate the conversion rate of a youtube short compared to a tiktok for one view on YouTube at a conversion rate of X I need a thousand views on tik-tok conversion rate of the same Wow like Louisa the big video and there were there were four with him that did well the big one

though that did eighteen and a half million on tiktok 19 whatever it was something up there that same video did i think like six and a half million at this point on youtube the short the full yes the short okay the same video short and tiktok 18 and a half on tiktok six whatever on on youtube i think youtube out of the views that happened that week youtube accounted for 85 90 of them wow and i had one third of the views might have been more than that because people have to change apps yeah and but and like i even have the genius link in there now i didn't have that for a long time the genius link makes people when they go to my body if they actually take the think about all the effort of that asking someone you're on your feed on tiktok there's a million videos coming up you didn't

choose it it's just based on your preferences now you liked my video cool thank you now take the effort click my profile go there click another link wait for it to load it takes two seconds to load click that whatever the prompt is. Go there and they'll interact with my – that's a lot of effort. Whereas if you're on YouTube, you're already there. Yeah, it's a hustle, man. It's still more effort but like you're there. So like Genius at least gives them the prompt that says open in the YouTube app.

Yes or no? Right. So I lose 50% of people right away who are like there's another prompt i'm out okay but instead of people clicking and it's just a internet page on tiktok where they can't hit subscribe now the people who actually click through which is 50 less probably because they have an extra click right they're already on their youtube so if they want to hit subscribe or hit a video they can and it's way they make it way easier to subscribe on the youtube shorts yes because you're there yeah the big there's a big fucking red button on every single short right

you're there right so like it's a gift and a curse yeah fuck tiktok man tiktok's they really tiktok likes inane inconsequential content that's it they don't anything that provokes thought they will when someone's running with it they'll take it and be like okay that was useful fuck you they don't like it i got banned for hate speech for ripping nazi germany that's insane that's like isn't it true that criminal isn't it true that china like turned turned tiktok off after a certain hour for young kids i believe so yes and their tiktok's entirely different it's all like educational it's all educational which is like how crazy is that it's the question of communism versus free democracy right like give me free democracy

all day obviously but this is where this is one of the few places where it's like fuck they're winning there because they can ban content and not give freedom of content choice to they have a way better education system than we do too right i don't know enough about it to comment on it i've heard they have better education i assume but i don't i don't know how could we ever know yeah how could you we couldn't we just take people's word for it that's the other thing like we do that for everything everything david sadder fucking john kiryaku yeah fair any guest all of them boost monte jim diorio that's the thing i wasn't on the boat with captain phillips you know what i mean yeah man yeah man that's the thing that's the thing about podcasting it's just

taking people's words for it but when you're making a documentary and you're there with your feet on the ground like the early days of vice when they would go like like heavy metal in baghdad where they would go to baghdad and like fucking go to these death metal show like and in the middle of these firefights and like there's a there's a difference between being there and filming something than just talking about it on a microphone can you spot it though at this point spot what like do you feel like sitting in the seat you are no you can't tell not really i think sometimes more than others but by and large not really some people are really good matt cox could be fucking selling me you know he could be making everything up and he's so charismatic and so articulate

and so charming the way he communicates it i would never know the difference i don't know i i think i haven't really had people blatantly lie in here to my knowledge. I could be wrong, but I haven't really had that, but I've had people, plenty of people just based on whether it's what's in their feed or what's been going on in their life where they're clearly blind to some things. You know what I mean? Like they're not,

they don't realize, like they're not self-aware to x whatever it is and i do feel like i had good training in my career to have to spot that for sure so i had like a learned skill of that but doing this headphones on straight across darkened out room nothing but me and you not phones on airplane mode chilling it's definitely gone to a new level and then i have the by the way i have the benefit of watching the video afterwards sometimes when i'm doing a short i mean you watch me today editing something quick yeah i watch someone say the same thing just through the edit a million times in a row that's something that you need to work on that's

something that i learned that's a lesson that i learned working on documentaries and working on movies is like watching you make that clip earlier you did probably what 50 takes on on that one clip you were talking about and he said once you have a good one, you just got to fucking stop. I didn't think I had a good one, though. You had plenty of good ones before. In fairness, you're right. On that one, in fairness,

that clip was six minutes. And when you're editing, yeah, right. You're editing a six-minute clip and you did 50 takes. Once you have one, maybe two decent ones, then you just fucking stop it's about time and then when you're editing and you come to editing is different editing you can obviously you can watch all the takes yes but even sometimes when i'm editing i find one good take if i'm

trying to like it's different with commercials there's no takes i mean it's different with documentaries there's no takes in documentaries you're it're just like you're videotaping what happens but in commercials when you're going for something and even when i'm editing like i'll find the first good take in the editing i know there's 80 more i'm gonna stop i'm not gonna fucking spend my not my all my time trying to find the best one i'm gonna do it and it and I'm going to move on to the next thing. Like that's, that's one of the biggest things. I mean, it's all about, I mean, you obviously have more to lose the more money that's at stake. Obviously you don't have much at stake here. You're fucking doing this all, you know, you're funding yourself. Um, but that's, yeah, that's a big lesson is managing your time when

it comes to editing and filming, especially when you're trying to come up with a super captivating short for youtube you saw a really small piece of that today but you really i agree with you a thousand percent i think that's something i work on all the time that's hard to do too i'm ocd yeah like i don't ever want to have a doctor diagnose me i ain't going on any fucking pills fuck that shit yeah i ain't doing that right but i have i don't like self-diagnosing but like i'm definitely on the higher end of the spectrum of ocd like and people would be sick if they saw how i edit some of this stuff but i have been trying to drill myself. Maybe I should look at that.

Maybe I didn't do a good enough job today when you saw that one today. But I have been trying to drill myself to be like, you're turning on this camera once. You're not coming back here, plugging it in, uploading it and saying, I twitched there. No, no. This is one clip right like what you saw

today if i'm gonna give myself a little bit of credit you might have seen me turn this on upload this and do it three times whereas today and maybe that was because you were here too and you're like no that one was good i'm like oh okay yeah someone knew that was good maybe i would have failed but like i do try to tell myself julian you Julian, you have one time to do this. That's why – and like this is probably stupid. But that's why I take more time each week and I make myself do those intros in one take. Yeah. So the second I fuck something up, right from the top because like it trains me to be like you have to get it right and you have one shot to do it.

Right. Which is a little counterintuitive on that one, I'll admit. But like the theme, I try to do that because I'm not good at that. I have a big weakness there. I'll be like, well, no, that one. Well, no, that. I'll sit there with five or six different songs as a potential on a fucking track when it's a really good clip.

Yeah. And I'm like, god damn it. They all work. Yeah. No, I know your pain. Even with something like Deckhands, yeah and i'm like god damn it yeah they all work yeah no i know i know your pain like even like with something like deckhands i would spend i would spend a whole week trying to find the right music just for one piece of a one piece of the documentary just for one five minute segment

i would spend a week just searching reddit for the right type of right type of clips or right type of music for that fucking unbelievable documentary by the way thank you i know i've said that but people deckhands concreteands, Concrete with a K. It's six parts. Go watch it. It's fucking amazing. For the podcast, what's helped me the most is being able to optimize the process of it. Being able to turn it into a machine where I don't have to edit, where i don't have to go back and watch it and

crin you know watch my cringe self talk to somebody and fumble and stutter through words that's made it so much more easy it's made it easier for me to do and it's made it i don't know i don't know i don't know what i'm getting at but i guess it's just saved me time and it's if i had to go back and watch every single episode and edit every single episode i would have quit i wouldn't fucking want i don't like doing it i feel like like it's not it's not fun for me to go back and watch what i already did and try to because once i start it, I start critiquing every little thing. I'm like, this fucking sucks. Why am I going to put this out? This is terrible.

When I created a system to where Austin's fucking switches it live and I don't have to watch it. I just add an intro and an outro. It's like, okay, this is great. I'm like in real time, I'm gaining these skills. I'm honing this ability to communicate with somebody and get the best information I possibly can out of them. And when I'm done, I just wash my hands with it and wash my hands of it and forget about it and take, you know, whatever I remember or retain from it. I try to retain the best I possibly can, but this hard drive only has so many gigabytes in it and I can only retain so much after however many hundreds of podcasts people do.

I think this is one thing i actually train myself to be okay at and i had a huge advantage i built this podcast silently without telling anyone for six months ahead of time right so i forget podcasts the number of times i watch myself to get that i still cringe at shit i do but I desensitize myself to it everything I ever say I'm like oh God that was terrible right but now like my hand doesn't go like this right I'm actively sitting there like God that could give us terrible yep wow that was awful but like we're on to the next one and then maybe at the end if I have a particular cringy episode I'm like for two minutes I'm like wow you were really bad but like when I was training myself to do this, it was every stop and I'd just be like,

Han, like, Julian, you just threw away that crazy contract and you have made the worst decision of your life. So like I had to get myself there. But like it seems like for you, you just kind of got yourself to a system somewhat early on where you were just like okay well now i don't have to think about it which seems to have worked in a different way which was necessary or else i wouldn't have done it yeah i still don't really enjoy it honestly i mean i enjoy doing the podcast but i don't enjoy i don't enjoy the final product really i enjoy other i enjoy listening to other podcasts it's i think it's like it's a productive it's a productivity thing oh well yes like i don't enjoy listening back especially once i edited it

like it's not enjoyment for me to listen back to a pie i was already there you know right my documentaries are different like the documentaries are little short films i love going back and walking sure so much fun yes i understand this is not that i would agree and i don't make documentaries to be clear but like i would agree whereas actually you know what way smaller example but sometimes i will enjoy picking apart a short yeah like oh what would i do different now and i'll respect the fact that at that time i did this right i won't it won't be that's one thing where i'm sometimes i am but i'm less like julian you fucking idiot why'd you do it like that now i'm like oh i could do that clip again in a year and i could do it like this you know like it's probably your documentaries are way

more work and drawn out because they take so long but like it's probably a similar attitude whereas the podcast just like okay we did it right by the way do you think johnny depp's full of shit when he said during his trial that he doesn't he hasn't watched any of the pirates caribbean movies i didn't know he said that they asked him about it and he's like i i haven't seen it sir i've never watched it no i don't my first reaction i could be wrong but my first reaction is no i don't think he's full of shit because i think johnny depp is a legitimate weirdo who is brilliant at what he does and he owned being a weird it's what makes him great that's why i respect him and i think

especially when i see what he knowingly has put himself through on this he knew his lawyers told him you know he's a big boy they thought hey john you have to read all those texts all this stuff and i know what it's like to write stupid shit when you're upset i have a lot of respect for that it's not a popular thing to do it's the harder thing to do yeah he doesn't need money even after even if his career is like a little hurt right now eventually it'll be fine right he's brilliant right like they don't care they let Harvey Weinstein operate for 20. right don't get me wrong I'm definitely a team Johnny not team Amber Heard but I think he was full of on that one I think he's I could see Johnny

he might be full you might be right I could see Johnny not I love the fact that he was doing coke with Marilyn Manson I think that's the coolest thing ever that's on my bucket list I want to do coke with me swear to God that's on my bucket list for sure but I might be like I might be able to help you on that one really you know somebody we'll talk after I'm actually emailing back and forth with him right now when Manson yeah no. No. Yep. He's coming on my podcast.

No, he's not. Yes, but he said he has to wait until his lawsuit's over with. And he didn't get charged. He's being sued. He's being sued by, what's the word for it when a couple girls sue you, a couple people sue you? Class action. Is it really class action? When it's multiple people.

I guess it is class action. Yeah, it's Evan Rachel Wood and one or two other girls are suing him. But Evan Rachel Wood is the one who's really going after him. I'm watching to see if he settles. If he settles, he's guilty. Well, he already countersued him. And he posted a link to his lawsuit,

his complaint, on his Instagram. But I hope he doesn't settle. I hope he does the same thing johnny's doing yeah if he yeah but like that that goes a long way it doesn't mean you're innocent but like it goes a long way because then you have to prove it like when i listen to johnny i believe him i think he just me too i think he just verbally tried to react to this stuff someone took a shit on your bed she was a cum dumpster for years for me like you know i think you're just like you know it's not like yeah i think that's a human thing but

i don't know you never know who the fuck knows who the fuck knows like it's not my problem my whole thing about my thing about the marilyn manson thing with with evan rachel wood was okay she was like what she was 20 years old or 19 years old when she started dating yeah you're 19 and you're dating marilyn fucking manson he was out of his mind he was like 15 years older than you and he's still marilyn manson yeah you have to know you're saying you have to know what you're signing up for yeah without going yeah i understand what you're saying like when it comes to sexual deviance he's at the top of the fucking food chain yeah you you know what you're getting his whole imagery is revolves around sex and violence and which doesn't doesn't uh doesn't take away that there's things

that are straight up wrong, sick, and illegal. I don't think she claimed that she was raped. I forget what it was. It was a few other things, though. Yeah, it's like she claimed that she was groomed

or psychologically manipulated into doing some fucking weird sexual things with him i don't know everything for sure but either way when it all shakes out he's coming on the concrete podcast he'll be an interesting one check that off the bucket list yeah he's he's a character for sure smart guy dude he's a fucking smart dude very smart have you watched any of his old interviews that he's done with on like bill maher and uh bill o'reilly he was on bill o'reilly bill maher fuck dude when he was like in his 20s i've just heard about some how he is like off count, like off the whole deal from people

who are. He was like in his twenties quoting Freud in like an interview on MTV, you know, when they're accusing him of, of Columbine shootings, all the, every single fucking shooting that happened was blamed on him when he was first starting his career in the 90s and going on mtv music awards and they asked he was on bowling for columbine like what would you say to the what would you say to the columbine shooters if they were here right now and what did he say he said like the best thing ever he was like i wouldn't say a word to them i listened to what they had to say and that's what no one did.

Wow. That's interesting. Dude's like 23 when he said that. Have you ever seen The Defiant Ones? Mm-mm. Oh, you're a documentary guy. A maker. And you haven't seen The Defiant Ones. No, there's a lot of good things I haven't seen.

All right. You're going to have to watch that. That was a four-part series on HBO 2017. It's one of my favorite things ever made. About the collision of Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre in the music industry, which commenced or ended with their selling beats to Apple Music.

But it started with Dre as an up-and-coming rapper producer. On the scene, Jimmy Iovine was an Italian kid from Brooklyn, like getting by with the East street band and making music with interesting people. And it is, I have seen this. It is basically a history of what's been important in music over the last

four decades, four or five decades. And it's fucking incredible. And in that like inner scope, they changed everything, man man like you think about it they went they were everything from dre and snoop to marilyn manson to nine inch nails to gwen stefani to tupac yeah they didn't give a fuck that's crazy they changed the world and not all for the best but like also a lot of great shit like nothing's all great or all bad

right like there's always well a couple things are but there's usually like nuance to it there's you know there's some things that aren't positive but there's so much like the brilliant things that were created there in the mentality behind the scenes of how they went about that and what the thought was and leading with the art and just saying let them be them holy shit i mean it's like the only my only problem with that documentary is it should have been 16 parts not four it was that fucking unbelievable. Wow. And it follows Interscope? Yeah.

The third part, which is about, I think it's like 90 minutes, which covers like the height of the 90s of Interscope, is like, it's like you, I've never done Blow, but like it's got to be like ripping five lines of Blow and hearing the wildest story of your life. Where they just like tell it way too fast but it's incredible wow i have seen the documentary that um what's the guy from 30 second to mars what's his name again jared leto yeah the documentary he did about when he sued

his warner music his record label crazy documentary where he just filmed the whole lawsuit i don't know that one basically exposes the whole predatory nature of record labels there is a lot of that there i mean it's so real how they'll give you the advance and then basically you end up owing them hundreds of thousands of dollars and you're a slave to them to make new music for the rest of your career. I had Famous Dylan here. Crazy fucking, what's the name of that fucking documentary? It's called...

Artifact. Artifact, yes. I had Famous Dylan here twice now. Who? He would, you know, the song Jordan Belfort. I be getting dirty money Jordan Belfort. You know that song? No.

It's been streamed hundreds, maybe billions of times. No, I've never heard it. I be getting dirty money Jordan Belfort no I'd have to hear it you would know it

no I haven't heard it I mean he and Wes who made that song they were kids they were fucking 19 they got fucked

yeah they got fucked there's another I won't name this person I don't like name dropping and this person's never been on got fucked there there's another person i won't name this person i don't like name dropping and this person's never been on the podcast but there's another large name whose crew i've been around on various projects of stuff and it's like when you hear the story and then that one's even worse like when you hear about what these labels did i mean and it's bad like some of the people i know in the label industry who are

amazing people there's one guy i'm thinking of in particularly who is you can look at his entire career he is beloved beloved by everyone he's ever worked with like when you hear people giving thank you speeches at the grammys they're putting him front and center really yeah and one of the most amazing people in the history of the business very few people know his name and that's how he likes it. True artist guy. He was always frank with me. He doesn't rip a lot of people. He's a very introverted, quiet, way too humble guy.

But I mean he says it without saying it you know and he's like not great yeah you know there's a lot of that unfortunately and these people are they're leeches they suck everything up in front of them yeah i don't give a fuck about you yep where you're from what your mom thinks they don't care right it's sad yeah i think i don't know i don't know i don't think that industry lasts it's changing it's definitely changed a lot i mean a lot of those companies have gone have gone under yeah i mean dill's been leading he's been like leading the way he hasn't even made a ton of music recently at all he's just been leading the way in music nfts okay like how that's being viewed

he's such an that guy's so funny he could make the most boring sentence sound like the world just flipped over he'd be like i just walked in this room and i sat down and i'm like wow so funny man he's i love that but like mean, there's got to, technology and innovation and, you know, the individual power over time. Yeah. I'll bet on it every time. Yeah. Danny, we just, we just did, I don't know how long, but it was a long time.

It was fucking, it's definitely over three hours. Definitely three hours at least. You're the man. That was awesome, man. Thank you for doing this with me. Of course. Thank you for inviting me up here and popping my podcast, Cherry. I'm being a guest popping my podcast, Cherry.

I'm being a guest. Podcast guest, Cherry. I don't know why you're not a guest on shit. That makes no sense to me. I was a guest. You asked me to be a guest on yours. I'm like, wait, you mean him, right? Wrong person. Dude, you're a fucking fascinating dude, man.

You're super interesting to talk to. I appreciate it. That was a fun podcast. I had a good time coming down there for the weekend. Thank you for the weekend. Thank you for the... How do you pronounce the whiskey? Dew-ish. Dew-ish.

Dew-ish. It's an inside joke. Yeah, we're a Dew-ish household around here. Not by choice. It's just going to happen. Shout out, Murph. Comes with the territory. When you're from Jersey, you drink Dew-ish.

Anyway, tell people where they can find concrete with a k k-o-n-c-r-e-t-e you just did it brother concrete podcast on youtube spotify everywhere it's all it's at k-o-n-c-r-e-t-e pretty much everywhere i'm gonna ask you an impossible question before we go who's the who's your favorite person you've ever talked to on there there is no favorite i thought about this the other day i was in the shower and i came up with a perfect answer to this because you know how many people have asked me that question and i'm i always get stumped i don't have an answer for myself so it's hypocritical to ask but i'm still asking julian dory good answer too slow cheers brother thank you for having me Julian Dory. Good answer. Too slow. Cheers, brother.

Thank you for having me. Cheers. We'll do it again. Yes, sir. All right. Keep it rolling. Let's go eat some Italian food. Yeah, this fucking guy loves New Jersey.

Classic. Anyway, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you.