Julian Dorey Podcast - 😱 #110 - The Unsolved Delphi Murders | Alex Voorhies

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Alex Voorhies is a hacker. Currently one of his focuses is information surrounding cold cases including the Delphi Murders. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Intro; The Delphi Murders of 2017; The Bill & Peggy Stephenson Murders; The Tech Millionaire’s son 22:56 - “Anthony Shots” and how Alex hacked him; The “Gait” Murderer; Jack The Ripper ties? 42:38 - Chelsea Small and the Gait Killer?; The Michigan Gun Store Robbery; Alex helping law enforcement 1:09:57 - How Alex got into hacking; The Lapsus$ hacking group; How Sim Swaps work 1:22:01 - The XBox Underground and revisiting the story of Nick Castellucci (Episode 72); Xbox Underground member, Anthony Clark; Uptight internet culture; Cookies explained 1:42:34 - Swatting; AlphaBay; The traceability of crypto transactions ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “TRENDIFIER”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier PRIVADO VPN FOR $4.99/Month: https://privadovpn.com/trendifier/#a_aid=Julian Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey ~ Beat provided by: https://freebeats.io Music Produced by White Hot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is that where they describe killer with a gate? Yeah, killer with a gate. That's what's weird about that one. You have certain things that match, but you don't have the throat slashing, you don't have the body posing, you don't have the staging. What you have is the gate, the brown hair. She had triggered an alarm so he didn't have time to stay there too. Yeah, exactly.

But this is with a gun. Have the other's been with guns what's cooking everybody i am joined in the bunker today by mr alex vorhees alex is a hacker who is currently working among other things on some hacking around the 2017 Delphi murders. Now you'll hear he's cagey at times about it because I'm sure there's some things he's not going to discuss on camera but he got into a little bit of some of that stuff and then really also walked us through a bunch of cases that he found online and through some research that started to put some things together that look a little sketchy. I'm sure not all of them are tied, as he said himself, but it's worth looking at and some of them very well could be. So that was a fun conversation and I hope you guys enjoy. Now, if you are on YouTube right now, please hit that subscribe button, hit that bell

button. And as always, would love to see you leave a like on the video and some comments down in the comment section. To everyone who is on Apple or Spotify, thank you for checking out the show over there. If you haven't already, be sure to leave a five-star review on either one of those platforms. That's a huge, huge help. And I look forward to seeing you guys again for future episodes.

That said, you know what it is. I'm Julian Dory, and this is Dreadfire. Let's go. This is one of the great questions in our culture. Where is the nuance? You're giving opinions and calling them facts. You feel me? Everyone understands this, but few seem to do it.

If you don't like the status quo, start asking questions i typed in internet sleuthing into google and then the delphi murders popped up and uh the delphi murders can you explain what happened here uh two girls died in February 2017, and one of the victims, Libby German, so it was Abigail Williams and Libby German. One of the girls took a video of the murderer before she died, and so it blew up because of that because it's just so eerie the video of him walking towards them and everything so they were on it they were on the

delphi trails in or the delphi historic trails in delphi yeah so they were like hiking trail yeah yeah this was in this was their bodies were found on february 14th yeah like a day later yeah so i noticed there was a lot of noise around that murder so i was like you know i'm not gonna do much like if there are any clues not gonna be online like it's it's gonna be some like traditional detective work so i'm like what i can do is search for murders that i think were committed by the same dude and And I came across one. What made you think the guy committed other murders? He's professional, man.

It's like, dang, dude, you got away with all that? It's like, it just seemed like, to me, my gut instinct said it was professional. They had done it before or done it after. And there would be some similarities somewhere, you know, that would pop up on Google somehow. So I found one. Did did you i'm sorry i just want to stay on this for a sec for people that aren't familiar with the murders did you think that because of the nature of how he did it because he basically the killing i think one of the girls he was one inch from decapitating her yeah and then the other one he stabbed in the heart and in and in

the artery in the neck so yeah it was viewed as someone who's done this before like this is this was a tactical killing yeah and that's kind of what had you thinking like okay there's got to be other cases that we find a similar way that he murdered people yeah i'm like you know that it was just a hunch i could have been wrong at the time and i i could still be wrong on that but uh i looked for similar cases i was looking and you gotta remember at the time the cause of death wasn't known this was uh beginning of 2021 so like january 2021 oh so years later they hadn't said how they know it just came out recently so the rumors were correct so i was going off rumors back then so why didn't they they're keeping the cause of death a secret like they do in a lot of the similar murders i'm

mentioning so a bunch of whack jobs don't you know try to get you know free uh motel six for the night in jail basically are whatever reason they want to go to jail or copy yeah you know they're trying to stop that and and also if information does come forward they like are able to verify stuff like fast track it because they're like yeah that clicks yet that clicks yep that clicks so and they got more of that still uh but more is known now than it was uh previously for sure but back, I was just going off rumors and stuff. So I was looking. I typed in double homicide. I'm like, let's see what other double homicides are out there,

just for the hell of it. So I was going on the states around. I started with Indiana first, and I started with the states around. So I hit Kentucky. Double homicide is Bill and Peggy Stevenson back in 2011. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Now, they had, I just want to make sure, they had released the video, the one second video of the killer on the trail that was caught on some footage years before, right?

Like, they released it after the murder actually happened. Yeah, not until two years later in 2019, I think. Oh, so they waited two years to release that video. Yeah, they had the picture they released first, and the video came way later. And we'll explain why that's important in a minute. So Bill and Peggy Stevenson, you found their murder, double homicide in Kentucky.

Yeah, and so I was looking for info on that. And right off the bat, I saw some similarities because the cops were not saying the cause of death, and they said things were staged. So I'm seeing staging posing body posing and i'm like what is that so staging is like where uh you stage a crime scene after the fact so like somebody's dead and let's say you put a christmas tree over their head or something. That's like staging, you know, it's like you're trying to like.

You're tagging. Yeah, draw attention off the fact and then body posing, you know, goes without saying, like you pose them after the fact, you know. And so this one hit a couple. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. You know, uh... Snags?

Yeah, I hit a couple snags, struck my curiosity. So, I was looking at this old Blogspot website, and in the comments, somebody had said that they knew the grandson and that the Stephensons had been nearly decapitated as well, and it didn't say that in any other news articles, so I'm like, alright, nearly decapitated, posing, staging, you know, and my whole reason for going to- How were they staged? I don't know, the cops haven't't said that they just said that the whole things

were moved around uh in their house uh you know furniture was just all out of whack and they they didn't give away all the details but they said it was staged and they said the same thing about the delphi murders as well yeah something staged where he left the bodies yeah robert ives he's some sort of law enforcement but he he was saying that it was staged signatures. So I didn't know about the posing other than the rumored text at the time. So going off that comments I had, I'm like, damn, we got one, dude. And, you know, far less noise than the Delphi murders. So I'm like, you know, less noise.

I could probably see a lot clearer over here where it's away from all the craziness over there on the Delphi murders. And, you know, I clicked a site on, what was it? It was Reddit, a news article about them, right? Peggy. Bill and Peggy. Yeah. And somebody was making like an out of whack comment like all cryptic and uh the thing with them is there wasn't any other weirdo comments on their death like delphi comment he said that they were

swingers and somebody asked him what he was talking about and if there was if he was implying there was more than uh one murderer and he's like uh i already said too much like all cryptic like he was he was just like going all wacko so you know i showed my brother and he's like a bunch of weirdos on the internet i wouldn't take it so i wouldn't look into it like it's you know it's whatever but i was thinking like delphi gets a lot of those comments like daily because it's so popular i'm like stevenson's you know it's it happened so long ago barely anybody's talking about it's 2011 yeah barely anybody's talking about them you know on social media like the delphi murders so i'm like this you know so delphi murders you know let's say you got a case with

thousands of weirdo comments a day and then you got a case with no weirdo comments a day but then you hit you know one weirdo comment out of the blue so it's like which one you take more serious which one you're going to look at you know which one can you do more damage on so i was looking at this weirdo comment uh what else you know stuck out to me was that he was local he was local so he was uh not too far from where they were and this account was rigged to be anonymous like no real name on it the username didn't check out anywhere else he would talk about what city he was in what his hobbies were um that his job was in programming and say where and uh he said on reddit yeah yeah yeah he said he was using a pine phone for privacy like all

this wacko stuff and uh you know i i showed this to detectives and they're like yeah we want to we want to know who's behind this you know who's writing this like it is uh interesting you know so i told them who i thought it was based on the reddit comments and it was a completely wrong like different guy you know it was like he matched all the same things and I didn't post it publicly like I'm not doxing anybody or anything

but I told detectives who I thought it may be so you know I gave them that info because he had the same occupation lived in the same city you know Redditor said they lived in. He had the same hobby, which was the big one was Go or Baduk. It's like a Chinese chess-type game, some nerdy game. This isn't – maybe I think I am mixed up in my head.

This isn't the same case where you hacked into the one dude's email, right? No, that's later. That's later on. Okay, we'll get there. We're going to get there. Got it. So, you know, I gave him that info. And this guy, the Reddit account knew that people were looking for him, right?

So he deletes his account, right? It's gone like a week after I reported to police. Like everything deleted, dude. So I didn't hear back from police for about a month. And I'm like, you know what? Like I had a hunch that something wasn't quite right. Like it wasn't, I didn't have enough to be like, yeah, this guy's the one who did that, you know? So it's not like I said he did or anything.

It's not like police went over and like arrested him or something they're probably gonna go talk to the you know the poor guy that i turned in you know who i thought it was or whatever so uh there was a github site it's not up anymore but you could look through a bunch of deleted reddit comments and posts like deleted reddit accounts too right so i put his username in there how does that work uh it just like scrapes all the data off reddit and it plugs into reddit's api it does like all sorts of weird weirdo stuff but so anything anytime something's created on reddit it saves but they deleted it they got rid of it because people were complaining they want people seeing like you know their old porno comments on reddit you know if they delete their account or they you know so they deleted it yeah github got rid of it

for uh i think it was pressing yeah yeah because it was running off github or whatever now is that going to be available somewhere else on the dark web probably uh it'll be somewhere on the surface web most likely like somebody will make their own version of it you know they probably it's probably already up right now you know on the web the surface web yeah yeah like uh right you know google and uh oh that's everything yeah yeah yeah well my term for i don't know it's the real term but it works for me dude but uh i went through like 2 000 comments i was reading like looking for any clues and i hit one he said a username um i'm not gonna give out the username because you know it'll give out his name or whatever but

the username for his um badook club or whatever like some badook app so i said chinese game yeah so i found i put the username into google and uh Bidook club came up in Ohio, like near that part of Kentucky or whatever. And from there, I got the Bidook club's Discord. So I go in the Discord, I add myself to the group or whatever, right? And I look through all the members and his full name is on his username. So now I have his full name, right? How did you know it was him?

Oh, because it was the same username. At this point, yeah, same username. At this point, I don't know that. It could be someone that just happens to have the same username that plays the same game, whatever, right? So I add myself to the group. I send him a message, and he doesn't reply so that day i like in the group i'm like does anybody know who this guy is because like cops are looking for this and i'm trying

to talk to this guy and he's not answering and he hits me up like immediately he's like why are you doxing me blah blah blah and i'm like uh dude like i'm like did you write this or what and he's like yeah that's my account yeah i wrote that oh right away yeah you admitted to it and uh so i'm like all right dude and uh you know he looks scared for his life dude he and he said to like freaked him out he's like i don't know how you found that i was trying to real hard to be anonymous on that account like not hard enough yeah he's all that's some good work you did but uh i had nothing to do with the murders and like i was just joking around and i didn't know people would take it like that and i'm like well uh go and tell the police that and clear it up is the

joke whatever dude like no you know the you know just explain to them and then you'll be on your way or whatever so he asked for their phone number and uh it was detective uh coy cox by the way he's amazing detective and uh you know he hit he hit up he didn't even hit up coy cox so what happened is i called uh the police and told them that i have like the proof of the guy who did it and uh that comment yeah who did the comment you know what they wanted and uh he said he was going to call them so they waited a few days and they call me back they leave a voicemail and they say hey he didn't uh he didn't contact us so i hit him up and i said uh hey did you reach out to them he's like yeah and i'm like, I don't think you

did because they're saying you didn't. He's like, oh, just let the detectives do their job, blah, blah, blah. He's acting weird, dude. I'm like, dude, you don't speak ill on the dead. That's why you're in this mess. And I'm like, I was like tearing up a new one. And he's like, you know, all right, I'll reach out to them, whatever. And then his Discord got deleted like a month later or whatever. And I don't, you know, I haven't heard back from them. I didn't call to see if they connected with him, but they had his address and phone number and everything. And the weird thing about him is that his dad, you know, I'm not going to say the names. People will figure it out on their own, I guess.

But his dad is like a famous tech millionaire out of Indiana. So, I'm like, and he worked at Google. This guy is a Google employee. He's a programmer for Google at the time, at least. I don't know about now, but I'm like, what the hell? I'm like, you got a decent job. You know, your family's doing well. You look like you're doing well. Like like what do you need to go saying weird stuff about you know old cold case for like what's the point dude i'm like if it's a joke just say it's a joke and freaking explain you know why you thought it was funny i told him like all right so if it's a joke what you know why it was so funny like i don't get how that's funny it's because it's double homicide you say swingers and like double double like is that the punch line like you know and he didn't want to go into it he was like

being a weirdo about it you know it's like it's like when a dog pees in a corner and you're trying to put the dog's face in it and they're like turning away like this that's what he was doing so i was like all right yeah something's going on here so whatever they took care of it whatever and then you know I took a couple months off cause you know true crime it's like a rabbit hole dude like you know your mind could get

burnt out in there I like coming back with like a fresh perspective you know every take at least two months off you know so at this point did you have a connection on the gate no that comes later yeah sick uh so uh you know uh months later i'm working on a new game clown field 24-2 you know uh because you develop yeah games on pcs mostly uh yeah only for pc i haven't hit the console or mobile

gaming market yet because PC is the easiest to get to. When you do console or mobile, there's extra stuff you got to go through, licensing stuff, extra permissions you got to get, extra middleware you got to get. You got to optimize everything more, make polygons smaller, everything run faster so it doesn't burn up your

phone. How do you make a game so fast too, like you do? Yeah, because i do uh asset flips basically what does that mean it's like djing uh for uh games but it's uh more frowned upon than current djing but it's like how djing was when it first came out so you take something from over here something from over there and you mix it all together and then people say hey that's not art at the end of it but you know you're mixing games you could take from like halo and call of duty and put it together yeah pieces you know you can't take a model directly from a game or you'll get sued by the company that paid the person that made the model but people will sell

models online like the uni store when you sit just for people out there translation when you say model uh 3d model 3d model so like a car a 3d sculpture in 3d space that you then use to create an actual digital asset with so someone could have like the model of a ford or something then you take that model and you put it in the game's atmosphere yeah exactly we're using all models to put together games all model most models that i didn't make you just modify it to fit into you know whatever you're trying to make so it's like forcing a jigsaw puzzle that doesn't belong there but in this case you know when it goes there it fits quite well you know and then i'm doing like meme games comedy games

you know like stuff that has like charm to it like a sense of humor so what what do you mean like kyle simulator you know that got in game informer because it's funny it's stupid game but it's funny like sim simulator went viral in japan because it's funny uh why was kyle simulator funny because it's just a game of being kyle at the time that was a meme and you punched the the walls, and people loved it, dude. It's like Real Housewives or something. They're just flipping tables and punching walls. Is there any objective in the game?

Yeah, you punch the wall until you get out of the room. That's it, dude. Yeah, so that was sick when I got into Game Informer. I love that. And then the Japan thing was sick. I like that. Yeah, I've had a couple games go, like, viral. And Clownfield was definitely the biggest one.

Is it a free download? No, I sell them for a dollar, you know. So, you know, I'll go to Walmart and look at the prices on the Coke machine and decide that's the price I'm going to be selling. Yeah, so, you know uh clownfield was huge because people hated uh ea games so much at the time uh you know dice they were pissed off they made a crap product so like i made a game making fun of it you know i captured lightning in a bottle and people went crazy making fun of what uh battlefield 2042 and so you did clown field 2042 yeah yeah

and then uh oh man that was sick and you don't get any copyright on that no i you know i've been uh i've dealt with lawyers a lot and like they try to push me around they try to scare me and be like oh you did this like it's similar to ours or, you know, whatever. For instance, my first game ever, Hunting Simulator VR, I used the same font as another game called Hunting Simulator, which was made by Big Ben Interactive. They're associated with Sega out in Europe. And now they're called Nacon, I think. Anyways, they try to push me around, and they're like, oh, you're using similar font as us, and similar name, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, dude, the font you're using is a Dick's Sporting Goods font.

You do not own the font. And their lawyer was named Serge Susini or something. He was trying to push me around i'm like dude i'm like you can sue me whatever i said you're gonna give me more free press than i could ever imagine i'm like your whole font thing is stupid because you're using the dick sporting goods font like you know i don't think they have dick sporting goods in europe or something but he didn't know he didn't know i would know you know so you know i bitch slapped him you know in the emails it was hilarious and uh he backed off because they had a whole dmca thing against us

and they backed off of it it was so sick so they didn't want to give us uh more free press than uh they bargained for you know so uh yeah clownfield uh blew up was way, way many games later. And, yeah, it happened at the same time, you know, December of 2021. Clownfield? Yeah, as, you know, I was browsing Reddit, and something pops up from the Delphi Murders subreddit that police are looking for information. And this is what started the rabbit hole yeah dude on uh they're looking for information on uh anthony shots account which

was a catfish account oh no so this is later so you had already started because you had said the fall of 2020s when you started looking into it you get deep on the delphi you get deep on the stevenson's case you get the guy in the comment section you talked about so then you take a couple more yeah you take a couple months off yeah yeah okay so you started at least like in the summer instead and then in december now this is the one where you have the email yeah okay so what happens what's the what's the story with anthony shots like how does he play uh he messaged uh libby and libby was one of the victims in the Delphi case. It wasn't the picture he said he was.

He was some other guy that was way slimmer. Got it. So it was a fake picture. He had messaged Libby's account on Reddit? On Instagram. On Instagram. Yeah, so it was Instagram that messaged her and uh he uh oh my god this guy yeah i call him kegel klein he's so disgusting

his name is king klein and uh you know he's catfishing her and keegan klein yeah he he's already in jail this time because he uh he's basically you know uh i don't know if you say that word on here or whatever but the p word and uh right so he's messaging her and all that and uh because she was like 13 or 14. yeah and he's pretending to be someone younger too you know younger look in he's like some model or something he didn't know that he was using yeah he didn't know his pictures were being used and uh so they're looking for information on this account and i'm like damn dude like this is my thing dude catfishing and finding out information about stuff so they were looking for it strictly because he had messaged her yeah

and it had been somewhat romantic yeah so they wanted all interaction anybody that interacted um you know with him anybody that met up with him you know got got duped when they met up with the Catfish account. So what happened is I hacked into his email. I hacked into his Instagram. I hacked into his Keek account. How did you do this? I don't know if I want to give the sauce, but people smart enough will know, you know.

But, yeah, I go to my little sources, you know, where they got all the information, any information you want, you get, you know. So not only did I find out, you know, the emails they were looking for that were in the affidavit that they, that had been released at that time, because his phones had been taken from the house. So they had dumped it into Celebrite and I didn't know if they already had his passwords. I assume they did, you know, had, you know, enough information to see what was going on in the account. So I assume they already knew a lot, right? So what I did is I gave them a bunch of

different emails that I knew were his that weren't in the affidavit and those passwords and stuff and i emailed uh the fbi i called the fbi too and uh i was talking to uh matt sullivan and his girlfriend kate at the time they're uh delphi podcasters you know they talk about true crime and stuff and i was telling them the situation and they were telling me you know how i should go about it and stuff so uh they took the information to uh the local delphi police you know carroll county or whatever and then uh i took it to the fbi and i was on the phone with the fbi agent he was like all giddy man it was sick he's like oh the delphi murder oh yeah yeah so he's making me like spell out all the passwords all the emails like everything and then and they went in themselves then yeah and let me just say

when i logged in the accounts i just logged in made sure it worked i didn't touch anything i didn't open anything because i don't want to like i don't want to contaminate anything uh as much as possible you know so you had everything you had his emails you had his. You had his emails. You had his Twitter. You had his Instagram. All of it. Yeah. He didn't have a Twitter. He did have a Twitter, but not related to the Anthony Schatz thing. So Anthony Schatz was the catfish that he used.

And he called it Anthony Schatz on every platform. Yeah. But just the way things were in the affidavit, I could tell they were struggling with a lot of stuff. He definitely was deleting stuff. And I know Celebrite, the program they use, the law enforcement uses to scrape phones and stuff. What is it called? Celebrite. So what does it do?

Like, you plug a phone in. I don't know exactly how it works, but you plug it into a machine or their computer and you know when you uh text somebody on your phone or use an app or whatever it saves hidden stuff in your phone like files like that are just like gibberish or whatever that uh it saves like pictures that you receive or whatever and um messages that you receive it's all saved like deep in your phone that you can't really access um when you're regularly using your phone you know if you don't have the phone you can never if you're law enforcement you can never get that information exactly so you know you get you could be messaging somebody on instagram and have a back and forth and delete your instagram off the app like delete the instagram account but there will still be traces on the phone of that interaction and uh he he tried to

wipe all his phones and stuff but it was still on the phones dude so like they had they definitely had a lot of stuff on him but you know i could tell by the affidavit it was mainly like the stuff ripped from celebrite it wasn't it didn't seem like they had access to a lot of stuff, but you know, I gave them all that. And, uh, Matt said he noticed like changes, like his Facebook and stuff, they were changing stuff and privating stuff. And like, so I definitely think it helped them a lot, you know, but, uh, you know, we go a few months later and, uh, I didn't hear anything back or whatever. I didn't expect to, cause you know, I know how police roll with that stuff, but. Did you think after you figured out who he was, Keegan, and what he actually looked like,

cause he was a bigger guy. When you look at the video of the alleged killer, which is like a one sec, it's literally one second long, but it's long enough to get a couple strides in. I'll put it in the corner of the screen for people to see it. The video that was taken on the Delphi trail the same day as the murders, you know, he does, he's wearing baggy clothes, so it's hard to say, but he does look like a little bit of a bigger guy. Yeah, I don't think it's him. Yeah, but when you saw it, did you oh this might be him no because the theory around it was that that guy he was um you know catfishing girls for photos and uh he was selling them almost like a kind of subscription service for bad people or whatever yeah so the theory was young girls too yeah somebody hijacked his account

or you know somehow tricked him manipulated him into being like hey let me meet up with these girls or what what's going on with these girls over here and then you know basically used that person's infrastructure to get them to the bridge and then you know they think they're meeting a model that's a theory that's a theory and it hasn't wait hold on a second hold on I haven't I just I was thinking of the wrong thing when you were starting to explain that you're not talking about Keegan you're talking about the actual the killer yeah I'm talking about the killer so Keegan's infrastructure to you know lure the girls thinking they're going to meet, you know, a model. This is what people were thinking might have happened.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it didn't happen. That's not what happened. It hasn't been proven either way, and, you know, nobody knows for sure, but, you know, that's a, the thinking sure wasn't that Keegan is the guy on the bridge because it doesn't really look like him. But he's in prison, or he's in jail in jail i guess like a waiting trial now for like child pornography charges yeah so he's a yeah he's a full-blown psycho yeah the keegan guy

hell yeah okay so it's so it's not him but when did you because and i'll put that video on the corner again so people can see it but the thing that was noted in this very short video where you at least get to see the the alleged killer take a stride or two it's it's clear that he has some sort of a gate which could be a limp but it also is like the way people walk some people walk on the outside of their foot with the feet open some people are more likely to walk inside rather than neutral so it can change how you like hop off the pavement so you notice that in some way he has some sort of gait which other people obviously online we're now talking about and you're like okay yeah that's another thing that hasn't proven either way because it's a rickety bridge purely he's just

walking weird because the bridge he's just walking weird uh you know the video is not long enough to tell if he has a hitch in his right leg or left leg or any hitch at all you know so but if you look up online you type in gate whatever you know right leg whatever for delphi uh a lot of people that's like a common thread a common theory that something's going on weird with his walking you know yeah they were trying to say like oh maybe he was in the military and he had some sort of injury or things like that but none none of that's in any way proven or even possibly true yeah and you know law enforcement doesn't even know themselves i don't think for delphi but uh

well when did you start thinking like okay there could be a connect there with other killings like if someone had a gate i came across a post that i'm not gonna say what side it's on or whatever i'm trying to find out who's behind it right now but a person mentioned a right uh gate on the right leg and the thing that stuck out to me was that they mentioned it way before the video was released so like a month after the murders so this thing just hit it a lot of things clicked in this person's comments and the person that made this comment they were an anonymous poster but thankfully the site still logs, you know, IP addresses. Which site? I'm not gonna say it right now. I gotta give it to law enforcement first, you know.

Yeah. But, you know, it's gonna be out there soon enough. But he said his psychic friend had told him all this BS, you know. Yeah, he's like, everything was like, my psychic friend said this, my psychic friend said that, and usually there's a lot of those type of comments out there. I don't think anything of them most of the time, but this one stuck out to me. A lot of things clicked.

So he made a comparison, he said, yeah, this, my psychic friend told me he did the, is it the Evansville or Evansdale? I can't remember remember which one was that iowa two girls missing everybody thinks the same murder is the delphi oh i yeah i'm less familiar with that i may have looked through it when you and i were talking yeah let me pull it up yeah he made mention of that evansdale murders yeah yeah yeah all right let's plug that in. So the commenter made mention of that.

So this was Evansdale girls kidnapping. Okay, under investigation. All right, let's get one from six days ago. I'm just going to read the source here. So we have, investigators still hopeful of solving Evansdale murders 10 years later. It is Evansdale. The 10-year anniversary of the disappearance of 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins

and 10-year-old Lyric Cook Morrissey is today. Iowa Department of Public Safety Special Agent Scott Rieger says they continue to look at new and old tips on the case. Our team meets regularly. It's still kinds of ebbs and flows as far as how often, but we meet regularly doing both of those things, evaluating old information, evaluating the new information. The girls' bodies were found in a Bremer County wildlife area five months after they disappeared but no suspect has been found or charged in the

case he says the tips aren't aren't coming in as fast as they were early on but they haven't stopped either the last 10 months we've received 117 tips into our email address that we have assigned specifically for the case so that's a good handle on the volume that comes in all right so what was the connection here again so that's one thing that stuck out to me right so that's not enough commenters talking about this so all i got is a gate i got evans dale and then he said also there's an oklahoma connection incident blah blah blah and so i look up oklahoma i type in body posing oklahoma sure enough somebody with throat slash body posing staging and i'm like dang it's a case of uh pastor carol daniels in 2009 yeah so right now just keeping track at home 2009 2011 2012 and 2017 are different murders

that you're looking at as possible as possibly linked yeah let me check this one now so this is from this is an april 15th 2022 article what does it say the murder of carol daniels on a surprisingly mild august afternoon 2009 carol daniels made a trip she had made many times before she traveled from her home in northeast oklahoma city to a church at Which she was the pastor in anadarko, oklahoma the trip would take on average just over an hour anadarko is a small poor town Southwest oklahoma city metro area miss daniels has made the trip many times before she would arrive at the church close to 10 a.m Often there would be no congregants to preach to but in case they did show up miss daniels was there

Oh, this is gonna go into like this is like written like a like a novel but essentially i guess she disappeared on the way is that what happened um she was murdered in her own church okay yeah so the incident was between 10 and 12 p.m in her own 10 a.m and 12 p.m in her own church and we know that she arrived at the church and no one was there yeah okay and i just want to say, these murders may not even be related. This is my own theory. It's my own personal theory, you know, that there's something, you know, going on here that they may be connected, you know. So, another thing that stuck out to me, the person said that their psychic friend said the names the name the killer is joseph or

charles quick question just before you get into that what again about carol phillips made you think it was connected throat slash and body pose crime scene stage so she was same thing yeah and body posing is like super super rare in murders And then if you got like the throat, when you see nearly decapitated like three times, you're like, damn, dude, something is going on there. Dude, nearly decapitated and body posing. It's like, dang, dude, what a combo. So the psychic says Charles, or what was the other possible name?

Joseph. So the psychic's saying in the comments, or the guy's saying in the comments that his psychic friend yeah is saying that the killer was named one of these first two names which could be total bullshit i know and then it clicked to me that joseph and charles were the two main suspects of jack the ripper so i'm like you know what this guy may be a jack the ripper fanboy doing all this uh post-mortem mutilation you know along with the posing and stuff like that so i'm like dang this guy's like kind of trolling

you know in your mind in your mind when you're reading this are you thinking to yourself the person behind this account could be the person yeah or knows who did it so uh you know all these things are clicking and you know i'm thinking i may be schizo and it could be just another whack job and I'm like making things fit that shouldn't fit. But it's enough for me to like at least want to know who's behind this, you know. And I still don't know who's behind this account, but I will find out. I'll tell you that much. Another thing that clicked to me last year, there was a murder of a woman in Atlanta, Piedmont Park. I think that's how you say her name

was katie janice and how do you spell the last name uh j-a-n-e-s-s and her murder was completely jack the ripper inspired and it had can you explain jack the ripper to people who aren't familiar uh he's you know a uk uh serial killer has never caught but you know he did the throat slashing and all the extra stuff uh afterwards like post-mortem mutilation staging body posing so you know so this woman in atlanta what was her name katie janice katherine janice okay law enforcement sources and a former prosecutor say elements of the katherine janice murder at piedmont park in midtown suggest that there may be quote a familiarity unquote between the victim and

the killer the top atlanta police department commander said recently investigators are getting close to solving the gruesome crime from last july the they did not provide further details now mind you this article is from six months ago, so it's still not solved. I guess they weren't that close. It happened last year. I don't think they're going to solve it for a while, dude, unless some major break happens. I would like it to be

for me, but who knows, dude. Anyways, she was killed, and certain things stick out. There's a lot of jack the ripper inspired murders but when it's like it's kind of like a stalking thing that has to go on beforehand and not just like somebody uh going ham on homeless or escorts or something like that there has to be like certain things that click you know for me to

think that they're they're related you know question on the i'm just thinking of this out loud based on how you just explained that with some of the familiarity stuff here but like do we know if the delphi girls decided to go there to hike because they were meeting somebody that is unknown at this time you know i don't i don't know it might be known by law enforcement but i don't know that i don't know that could be interesting yeah that's that's a theory that's out there you know because this could be like the kind of person who in different ways be it through just online and then meets him in person and fucks him over or also meeting people in person as well before and getting to know them

then decides to take action on these various individuals that are targeted here's the thing that's not known at this time it's like you know it could be this person just sets a trap it could be the person sets a trap and uh whoever walks in walks in and they do their thing but it could also be where they're stalking you know each victim and that's what i tend to believe because like stevenson's knew the the door code to buzz into their condo like um delphi just like i i just have a gut feeling they were being targeted beforehand and And same with the pastor and same with, you know, Katie and probably Evansdale too. I don't know much about that case. A lot more is kept hush on that case, you know.

But I tend to think they were targeted. It's not just people picked at random, you know. I think he knows of them beforehand that's just my own personal theory but um what other ones did you see that the killer was described as having a gate on um missy bevers this is like my this is where we get like into the offshoots where it's like half and half i'm like iffy on if it's the same killer but this is where we get like into the offshoots where it's like half and half i'm like iffy on if it's the same killer but this is my own theory i call the gate killer theory uh yeah you got missy bevers chelsea small um you know once i plugged once i saw the gate from that posters uh

you know comments i plugged in gay and all this crazy stuff popped up man I'm gonna put the picture from the Chelsea small case in the corner of the screen so it's a security camera footage but it's not moving it's just a it's just a shot yeah just but if you look at this individual it is a very very similar profile to the Delphi same colorway same like choice of clothing i'm not saying exact exact uniform i'm saying like the you know construction looking uniform the body like shape yeah looks so similar the hair out the back as well with a low-brimmed hat on you see just similar things across all of them like And who was Chelsea Small? She was a worker at Advance America in

I believe it was Jackson, Michigan. When was that one? I want to say 2016. 2016? These are all happening. Wow. Okay. No, was it 2013? 2013. Yeah, it was 2013.

Good call. November 2013. Taylor, Michigan. Police respond to a silent alarm triggered from a check advance company they find 30 year old chelsea small the teller dead behind her desk so she was at a bank yeah was it an attempted bank robbery uh i don't think so because they didn't take anything that one's not known for sure either they took like a small amount of cash but not as much as they could have but it looked like a hit to me or like not that somebody paid for it but that he planned it he he knew he wanted her yeah he wanted her or at least somebody in that building for whatever reason he wanted whoever was in that building for sure um yeah yeah that one uh

is that where they described killer with a gate? Yeah. Killer with a gate, you know, and that, that's, what's weird about that one. Like you have certain things that match, but you don't have the throat slashing, you don't have the body posing, you don't have the staging. What you have is a gate, the brown hair, you know, um. And she had, she had triggered an alarm, so he didn't have time to stay there too. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Now, but this is with a gun. Yeah. Had the other ones been with guns? No. The gun was rumored to be used in Delphi to gain compliance. That's not known for sure. But now, based on the information we have, we don't think that's the case.

It may have been used, as you said, to get them to go with him, but that's not how he killed them. Yeah. What what i noticed across all these murders like a sense of flair it's like something's got to be unique like special like something that's just not normal it's like you know eccentric you know so uh yeah it's my personal belief that chelsea small is you know the same killer as delphi you know uh because you got yeah it's like same eight you know it's a it's a white dude who similar build the brown hair you see brown hair across all them i'm gonna get into the other murders too and then then, uh, it just seems like professional, like he's been doing it a while, you know? So I think when you're talking

about the posing and the stuff like that, do you think there could also be a connection to some sort of cult ritual with it? Like something bigger than the person not just their own personal tagline um yeah my theory is that is like a red herring for police just to like shock them and get them and looking into rabbit holes that I don't so it's not like a satanic ritual or something it's just I don't think so I I think he likes uh making people scratch their heads that's what I think he likes making people scratch their heads. That's what I think. Yeah. So fascinating. Fascinating is actually not the best word there. It's frightening is a word that comes to mind first, but it's a lot of different things.

When you think about why certain people become wired this way, like when you look at serial killers, unless – I'm sure I'm missing one out there that's like this. There's got to be some exception. But it's never about money. It's never about things like that. It's about this – it's about a combination of power, insecurities that they want to act on to feel – to remove that feeling. And obviously, clearly, a sick psychosis that leads them to believe that a higher power or something has told them they're supposed to do this to people. Even if it's just an excuse they make to themselves to get their own pleasure out of it because they're sick. They have like necrophilia, shit like that, whatever it is.

Like there's something in that that as a human being, we're very lucky to be able to say, well, we don't understand what that is, but we want to know how someone gets to that point because they were another functioning human being born onto this earth and they ended up becoming so fucked up that they were capable of this. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think, uh, his brain box is gone, man.

He's gone, dude. Clearly. Yeah. Um, but like, even like the famous, like the Jeffrey Dahmers of the world,

the Nightcrawlers, the Zodiac Killer, who allegedly, obviously, was never caught. I think someone recently, they tried to say he's dead now, but it was him. I don't know. But these people,

they do this crazy shit, and they don't get anything out of it other than their own joy in doing the shit. Yeah, you know, just like in True Detective, he says this goes way back. Yeah, now that's the first season of that show I think might be the best season of TV I've ever seen in my life. I love it, dude. It doesn't get old. It's so fucking good. Like if people haven't seen that, I mean, Jesus Christ, go watch that. It's incredible.

But that was like – it's been a while since I watched it. That was – spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. That was like there was the family down in in louisiana that was tied to all this satanic and they were doing like ritual killings yeah love crafting and stuff yeah which is enough that that's even like another level to it but again that's not what you you view you view this guy as his own yeah just solo soldier it's flare over religion flare over occultism at least that's how i view it you know i could be wrong on that but how many have there been like you seem to be the guy making the tie between a lot of this stuff but these true crime podcasts like the one you were mentioning there's

so many of these out there now that just sit around and talk about cold cases and they help solve some of these things i can't think of examples off the top of my head but i've seen stories before where it's like oh it's solved because of a podcast you're gonna love this one their uh murder has actually been solved like someone's been put behind bars that wasn't murder because the delphi killings because somebody called on their neighbor i forgot what state it was but uh they thought somebody had murdered uh like somebody or you know well that's usually what happens somebody murders somebody they put in the they put in the call and uh you know it turns out he did murder that person but he wasn't the delphi killer so you know the person they were calling about the delphi murders yeah they said they

thought it might be him and then they found out he killed somebody else yeah exactly and then they kind of like died down the person who made the call didn't really uh i don't think they poked their head out but you know almost seems like people were discouraged you know they don't care if they catch like five other killers as you know as long as it's a delphi killer it's got to be caught and i'm like dang that's crazy dude that's why this thing is like it's almost been gamified like it's been uh it's like the super bowl man it's crazy like everybody just wants the top prize even if uh what they get along the way is more important you know well that's the thing we make a game out of out of it it's just like like I make the example between sports and politics now it wasn't like this when I was growing up but like now politics are are like the worst side of sports

people are are they they're rooting for like their favorite player and their favorite team and they get so provincial over and it's not like it's not like you're tailgating on sunday getting drunk having a good time and getting in fights with people you know verbally in that case hopefully where where you're just fighting over teams and then you go to work on Monday. It's like, no, no, like they carry this with them everywhere. And to me, like now you look at crime stories. I mean, you saw what happened

with the Gabby Petito thing last year, which I was tracking it too. That shit was wild. But like the thing that annoyed me is that we turned it into, it was about, yeah yeah it was about more than actually trying to get justice and find brian laundry and get to the bottom of it it became like this like social media i don't want to desensitize it but people did like they they

became this social media like meme war sometimes you know and it became like team gabby team brian's like dude like a young lady was murdered here like this is some serious like you know i i go back to thinking about that and i'm like imagine being her family like she's with her boyfriend and her boyfriend like that's a one of the worst things that can happen you know what i mean it's it's like we we make it this like there's people taking drone footage of the parents house and trying to do breakdowns of was there a hand coming out of the garden it's like guys i get it like you know you're trying to be whatever but like to your point like you were saying about that one commenter these are people's lives dude you can't be shit talking like that

it's like no uh everybody wants to be a know-it-all you know and like that's why i always like stay humble and don't say that i have all the answers or know who did it because i don't yeah but you know theories are one thing but having something tangible is like what you want something tangible is always better than a theory you know that's what cops want that's what cops get excited over they don't want to hear theories they want they a theory you know that's what cops want that's what cops get excited over they don't want to hear theories they want they want something you know well they like someone coming with concrete stuff like you where you were able to get into accounts and prove connections and links that they couldn't identify themselves like that's that's not just someone like yo i got this

friend he's a little nutty like i don't know man like they're like oh fuck it's like scooby-doo sometimes yeah they're like uh the donny osmond brothers did it i'm like what i've never heard of them they're like they did it they did it he did it you know but um well i cut you off somewhere in there you were tying together i think the last one we talked about was chelsea small but then we were talking about like the the whether or not this guy was doing his own type of symbols versus like sort of cult shit, and you were saying it's his own shit, but then you said something about there were even some more murders. Yeah, three more events, and actually four more. In relation to Chelsea Small, there was a gun store robbery.

This is why I got her confused with Jackson, Michigan. The gun store robbery was in Jackson, Michigan. So she was like November 2013. The gun store robbery was May 2013. And this guy stole a bunch of silencers from a sporting goods store. Now, how did you find this? Because people online, websleuths.com i believe they said they believed uh that it was the same person that did the robbery that you know pulled the silencer out

on chelsea small and the reason they believe that is because the police even kind of suspect that the atf has been looking for this guy forever since where was that robbery? Jackson. So if you type in Jackson, Michigan, gun store robbery, ATF, make sure you put ATF in there. It'll show up. Gun store robbery ATF. All right. ATF, this is from September 2019.

Yeah. And the ATF, they have a tweet. atf still looking for gun theft suspect in jackson they believe he may be a suspect in another case they have they have that tagline see that's what i'm saying now he's now he's a little bigger here exactly that's what kind of throws me off so i'm like it could be him it can but he matches a lot of stuff i don't i don't hear anything about a gate the surveillance is too crappy to make that assumption i have to be the people that saw him in the gun store and this was in may 2013 he then killed chelsea in november yeah but i believe that person at the gun store definitely knew who killed chelsea why do you believe that because even the police kind of

think so because no other homicide had happened with a silencer in that whole state. Like one of the detectives on Chelsea Smalls. Wait, where was Chelsea Smalls killed? Michigan, same state as the gun store robbery, months later. So I believe that guy knows the killer or is the killer and just like, you know, did meth or something, lost a few pounds, whatever. But he's associated with it. Let me play cynic though on that one. There's so much on the black market

with guns and gun pieces like if i wanted to and i obviously don't but if i wanted to commit a federal crime right now and go get myself a gun silencer i'll bet i can i'll bet i can take out my phone and it is it is i can find three people in there that are going to get me to the source or be a source right away yeah most likely man you got a point there but yeah i you know in 2013 yeah they still had that stuff going on back then but you know did they did they recover the gun from the scene or he took it no he took he took it with them right so they never recovered any of those silencers ever so they can't measure like the serial numbers yeah that's another uh you know it's like a what if and it's like a maybe big maybe on that one but either way i think chelsea smalls uh killer is you know my

own theory is that it is the delphi murderer for sure just because the colorway choice choice of everything man it's like dang that guy does that when you look at that shot i'll put it in the corner again so people can see it and i'll put it next to the image that we have of the delphi murderer it is obviously they're both blurry the delphi murders from farther away but the shaping it's creepy i mean it definitely it could be i'm not saying it is i'm saying it could be there's um you know two comments i want to make uh go ahead one uh i think he kind of looks like michael moore and two he's kind of like in the gun store robbery that guy's trying to dress like the guy from no country for old men the serial killer hitman hybrid but he's like the plus size version he's a smart value version

the great pantry version you know that is true that haircut there's no doubt about that he's a weirdo dude that's yeah dude i don't man it is a fucked up world out there yeah people do some weird shit for purpose that's all i'm saying yeah that whole gate thing led me to any others that tied in the gate the florence salon killings i forgot what state uh florence f l o r e n c e yeah i forgot what state that was was in missouri or something some of them yeah okay now you see uh 20 years ago yeah 2001 so this is a little off timeline the other ones we were talking were more recent i think the oldest one was 09 is that sound right but this one was 2017 the great band in florence elgin and great man a little bit they're kind of like on more on the outer realm of my theory of like they may be maybe not but a couple things stick out the gate brown hair like he dressed like jack the ripper for that uh murder so it kind of plays

into my whole this guy's a jack the ripper fanboy, you know? Well, that's the other thing. This is where it gets wacky. If the quote-unquote killer from the other ones we were looking at is ripping off Jack the Ripper, Jack the Ripper's a famous killer, so the things are known about him. There could be several different copycatters. Exactly. Just like the New York Ripper, which I don't believe has any relation. Maybe, whatever. But exactly, exactly.

So, you know, throw a great bend in there, too. That's on, like, the outer realm, mainly because of the timeline and, like, it doesn't have the body posing or the staging, but those are possibilities. And minus the husband, what was it, Penny and... Oh, yeah, that one's more recent. Stevenson. Yeah, that one.

But minus the husband in that, these are all women. Yeah, yeah. All the other mermaids are women. All the old guys, yeah. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life. But you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans,

you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile, different is calling. It's all women, little girls, like this guy's weird. I'm never a man. Weird. Yeah. It's all like, little girls. This guy's weird. Never a man. Weird. Yeah. It's all, I'm guessing, easier targets or whatever. I guess, yeah.

Yeah. Another one that came up when I typed in the gate thing was Honey and Barry Sherman. Honey and Barry Sherman. Another old couple. Another old couple. I fucked up that typing there we go the bodies of honey 70 and barry 75 sherman were first discovered on december 15 2017 at their mansion at 50 old colony road yeah which was in toronto oh so this is out of country yeah it was near the u.s border oh yeah because this guy's doing shit in michigan indiana and it has the body posing the gate i'm gonna take a wild guess he's white and uh

how close i'm forgetting toronto's close to pittsburgh right yeah so let's see i'm just pulling up a map on my end just to check out some shit here. Okay. Was it like 100 miles? Yeah, it's still dangerously close to Michigan. Looks like I'm eyeballing it. Looks like you could get to Michigan in at least a couple hours. So, you know, that's another one in my whole realm of possibilities, you know,

and that's the final one i would say but it had the weird staging body posing the gate you know and uh looked like a targeted attack as well wasn't some random thing this guy he was definitely gunning for them and you know oh i forgot about missy bevers that's another one with a gate targeted attack we talked you and i might have talked about her off camera yeah missy bevers yeah pull her up yeah we didn't talk about this one yet on this so this was april 2016 yeah but the one in texas that one gets iffy because it's in texas and uh the cause of death isn't released on that one that's what kind of makes me look into things a lot is like when i see the cause of death isn't released i know something really weird happened you know because usually if it's a shooting or just straight up stabbing they'll

just say that but if there's some weird stuff going on they'll say they won't release the cause of death like evan stale bill and peggy stevenson um yeah the other one they did not they did not confirm whether it was the weapon of murder a police warrant alleged that uh or bevers was found with several puncture wounds to the head and chest a police warrant alleged in these that these wounds were consistent with tools the suspect was carrying through the building although police did not confirm whether it was the weapon of murder. The hammer was found alongside other tools near Bever's body. So there's a little bit of information now on it, but still not the full—

Yeah, it's just one thing. It's the whole gate, you know. This guy had a gate, too. He had a gate, too. That's what I'm saying. So you see all these gates, you know, Florence Gate, this one gate, Delphi Rumored gate, Honey and Barry Sherman gate. That's why I say the gate killer, you know. So it's just like, it could be there's four or five guys out there with like gates, you know, gates weird enough where the cops are saying, look at the gate, look at the gate. It's like, I don't know, man. It's like, I think there's some some connection at least with a few of these you know well i'm actually thinking also now because all the ones we're looking at what was the latest one we looked at like 2017 or something like that 2021. what was the one in 2020 uh janice oh that's right so there has been one recently again and that was katie jeaness which one was that

that atlanta her and her dog got sliced up but the investigators said they think they knew each other yeah okay so there has been one pretty recent because like i i always wonder if something like this got a little more mainstream that like oh they're looking for a gate killer because people started to make noise about it online and started to get on more true crime podcasts of which there are fucking thousands of them yeah you know if in today's world that would put the rabbit in the hat even for like a sick person like this you know because like we've seen serial killers walk away in the past from like they stopped

doing and they never got caught because of that there was even the one guy finally got caught a few years ago maybe it was like the golden gate killer or something like state killer state killer yeah like that guy just stopped doing it apparently like he did it for a while and then i guess it was too hot so like today the way the trail could get hot as if like there's some online public interest campaigns about it run through you know different forums and podcasts and stuff one can only hope i guess i guess yeah there is a huge possibility of uh over linkage but you know the way it seems where i stand right now is anybody with a gate should be uh held with Well, that really narrows it down.

Yeah, there you go. There's plenty of people that have a gate. But what are you – you had the one guy where you had the opportunity to be able to use some of your more discreet skills and hack into his accounts once you figured out who it was. But what are you looking for now? Are you looking for more loose end people of interest that the cops can't figure out who it was but like what are you looking for now are you looking for more like loose end people of interest that the cops can't figure out who it is like is there anyone without revealing revealing details of some active stuff you're working on is there stuff that you're that you're checking out yeah besides that post getting behind who made that weirdo cryptic post i uh contacted the great

bend uh bakery murders those those were two women uh whosecks were sliced near the Florence era, you know, the early 2000s. And my whole purpose for that... What's it called? The Great Bend Bakery Murders. So you contacted the detectives? Yeah, the Great Bend Police Department. And they have a witness in that murder. I don't know if he's still alive, but police know who it is.

2002, Kansas. Yeah, so I contacted them. I said, I showed them all the murders I think may be related. that murder i don't know if he's still alive but please know who it is 2002 kansas yeah so i contacted them i said i showed them all the murders i think may be related and i said hey show your witness the picture you know the picture of the gun store robbery and see if something clicks you know and hopefully if something clicks they're linked whatever if nothing clicks, they're linked, whatever. If nothing clicks, then you could cross XOs out as a whole other murderer, and that's like it narrows things down, you know? So another thing I did too, I contacted Kevin Donovan. He's in charge of unsealing all the documents in the Sherman case,

and I showed him Honey and Barry Sherman, the billionaires that were posed. In Toronto. Yeah, I showed him all the murders that I were linked he got back to me uh i showed him the picture of uh you know the gun store robbery and stuff like that and you know he since he's the one unsealing the documents on the civilian side uh what is what does that mean that means stuff that's sealed he's arguing with the courts to get it unsealed because he's part of the press so the reason i sent him all the stuff wait he's a he's not a detective he's a press journalist got it yeah so i'm hoping by showing them what my theories are what i got that if anything clicks

it narrows stuff down so i'm creating like a huge dragnet same thing i did with like matt sullivan and kate by the way they're great people they've shown me a lot of stuff behind the scenes those are the podcasters yeah they're amazing people and uh you know kevin he's got you know eyes out more eyes out than he had before for different things and uh also there's a twitter account called aggressive fruit it's a chick i don't know her name but she shared info with me i've helped her out with a lot of stuff um she's like the probably the smartest person on the katie janice case that i know of online on the civilian side so i tell her all my theories and she's got a dragnet out um you know looking for different things as well so yeah my goal is to just like get more stuff click in and whether it's over linkage or not you know uh wherever

there's less noise on older cases you could hit like huge home runs when it comes to uh getting cops tangible leads versus theories you know what what really drives you to do this because we'll get into some of the stuff like and you come up through hacking and things you've done in the past where let's be honest like you've done some stuff where it's not on the law enforcement side it's on the other side right so like what you know you said you got interested after the whole like catfishing thing that we talked about at the very beginning. But like you seem to also have a drive to want to solve these things. Is it as simple as the fact that like, you know, unsolved murders, it's the worst thing another human can do to another human.

And you feel a calling to want to be able to use your skills to help that or is there something more to it yeah it's like it's cool because you could like do illegal stuff like docs people or a hack and as long as you do it you know within certain boundaries and tastefully you get away with it it's sick dude but besides that it's um yeah you get to help families out, and that's nice. I don't care about reward money at all, if I'm being honest. And, you know, I like kind of – I know this guy's out there, and I know he's watching, and I kind of want him to be scared. I want him to be unnerved that he's got somebody on his ass, dude.

Somebody that is, is like just like some dude connected to the cases you're saying no me no i'm saying like that guy oh the guy that i want to be scared is the killer the killer himself or you know who all the killers if there's multiple you know now how did you like when did you first get into hacking was this something you were working on all of growing up or like something started to pick up high school college what's the story uh i used to hack like my wife my neighbor's wi-fi when back when it was wep uh it was way easier back then and like what's wep uh that's like the old protocol for wi-Fi routers.

Now it's WPA2 and probably some other stuff or whatever. You were doing this when you were a kid? Yeah. And what do you do when you hack a Wi-Fi? You could use it. That's all you wanted it for? Yeah. They have a code on it and you break it.

And the reason I would do that is because I would move around a lot. We get into a new house, and at the time it was Verizon. The Verizon people couldn't come until two weeks later, so that's two weeks without internet. But the neighbor's Wi-Fi is, like, booming, so I would hack into it, and I would have Wi-Fi before the rest of my family. It was so sick, dude. How would you hack in?

Use programs like Kali Linux at the time was pretty freaking solid, man. That was so sick dude how would you hack in uh use programs like cali linux at the time was pretty freaking solid man that was sick dude and uh you know it's all linux stuff at the time and then how for people who have no idea what you're talking about how does that work uh you basically run a different operating system on your computer that's not windows or mac it's linux yeah and it's pre-loaded you know depending on what version of Linux you get, this version of Linux was like preloaded. I'm sure there's better stuff out now. I don't really mess with Linux too much these days,

if I'm being honest. But this one was preloaded with a bunch of goodies, you know. And it had something on it that could crack the WEPp codes at the time so you know i would i would let it run come back a day later and it would crack the code and then i would use it and i would do sql injections on like old you know rinky dink websites and get their databases dumped and what does that mean sql injection uh that's where like you you mess with the you basically like kind of confuse a website to spitting out stuff it wasn't supposed to spit out you know so like what like uh passwords and usernames for all the people on the database of that forum or website whatever it's pretty sick

dude you get so okay so those passwords and usernames can include obviously emails and yeah yeah you have all their info there it's so sick dude so i did that cox would have loved this oh yeah he definitely would have wow okay so you would do that yeah and then i uh i did uh there was a this one i was a little older it was like the heartbleed attack i did that the first day it was revealed i did that on a couple sites and what is that man that was i can't remember the time but uh metasploit had released you know metasploit is like a real uh what they call script kitty like a new uh program and i am a new when it comes to hacking like i just use what's available i'm not like freaking a mathematical

genius or anything like that. I use that thing and I would basically shoot that at a couple websites and it would spit out stuff it wasn't supposed to. Similar concept. Like usernames and passwords. Yeah, exactly.

Certificates, stuff that was supposed to be guarded would get revealed once you spit the right stuff at it, you know? Yeah. So were these different programs exploiting zero days in the software pretty much? Yeah, at the time before they were patched, yeah. And it was a lot easier back then than it is now for sure because back when I was dabbling in it,

sites weren't as taken care of as they are now they were just kind of like janky you know there was a lot like a lot of forms from the 90s like still left over so you could you can experiment with it so well how like because a lot of people now use like squarespace and stuff like they won't build things from scratch so how amazon that's like a that's centralized protected then yeah it's so possible but it's um it's hard a lot harder a lot harder yeah it is good bad for you good good for everybody else but the way I do hacking now I made a lot of friends in the gaming community uh like Voxy who's from bulgaria he got arrested for breaking denuvo uh bird yev he's a flipper

denovo yeah it's a drm protection on games uh it makes games run like really slow but so when a game releases it takes them a little bit to crack it like you know a couple days to a month but it makes it makes games run slower so it like a third-party software you get a license for, and it makes it so your game can't, like, you can't just, like, get the game files and put it online and people could spread it around. Like, it only works for your machine. It's only good for that PC, basically.

Wait, so what's the benefit of it that it it delays a game getting pirated so there's more profit and this guy was cracking it like oh god i was thinking something else so this guy cracked it and then he was able to get pirated yeah and he got arrested and he's a good friend i love oxy man how'd you meet him uh through discord yeah i didn't meet him meet him i just talked to him a lot that's what it means in today's culture when we say we meet people i mean yeah exactly online but he taught me a lot about asset flipping he taught me a lot when you say asset flipping again what does that mean it means uh you like the modding of stuff yeah you make you take assets

off the assets store and a lot of stuff that's pre-built basically means a lot more stuff in your game is not custom made it's like frankensteined in so you know you might have a roblox looking model with a

triple A you know call of duty resident evil looking model and they just don't match because they were not meant to be in the same game but you bought both of them off the asset store so you feel like you have to use them so you just shove it all in there it's like if you were video editing and you had a bunch of random videos in a folder and you just threw the whole folder in your video editing software that's's pretty much what it is, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, but I love it because, you know, to polish a turd into gold, that's basically what it is. It's what music's about, sampling's about, like all that stuff. It feels like alchemy, dude. That's why I compare it to being a DJ or a beat maker because you're taking stuff that wasn't supposed to be together and you put it together anyways and you make it work and you know people bitch about and stuff but it makes money it makes if it makes people laugh then you know it's a good thing right yeah uh recently i met the leader met i should say talked online with uh the leader of Lapsus, Arion. That guy's amazing, dude.

I love that guy. Now, he's like 17 years old, right? Yeah. He's young. He's smart, dude. He's smart as hell. Now, can you explain Lapsus? Lapsus dollar sign is the hacking group.

They've done some wild shit. Yeah, they've been in the news, man. They're making bangers, dude. They hacked NVIDIA, hacked Microsoft, hacked t-mobile hacked octa yeah they're hacking everybody dude like but they know who arianne is so how is he not in handcuffs yet uh because he got since you know he was like a first-time offender in terms of the law and he just got slapped on the wrist and uh so they did pick him up. Yeah, he got scared for sure. March 2022.

Yeah, but he's back on the streets, man. He's hot and ready, dude. All right, so notable breaches in 2020. And you can literally get a Wikipedia page on him. It's Lapsus, L-A-P-S-U-S, dollar sign. In 2022, the group was involved in several cybersecurity crimes, leading to the publication of victims' data, including leaking source code and employee credentials from NVIDIA, including the release of code signing certificates, a breach of Microsoft, and the release of 37 gigabytes of source code for the Bing search engine a breacher a breach of Mercado Libre and e-commerce company a release of the source code of Samsung Galaxy phones and Samsung company data a

cybersecurity incident with the gaming company Ubisoft a breach in the identity and access management company Okta a breach of 70 gigabytes dump from Globin and a breach of T-Mobile systems. So what, specifically, how was he doing this? Was he using phishing techniques? How did he get in there? I hook or crook, dude. Sim swapping, fake subpoenas, bribery, extortion, all sorts of crazy stuff, man. That guy's crazy. That's the thing about hacking.

Ransomware attacks. Yeah, hacking, you know, most of the hackers I talked to today, they're doing everything but touching a command prompt. They i talked to today they're doing everything but touching a command prompt they're buying cookies they're doing the sim swaps bribing the employees like all this crazy stuff not the hacker man stuff you see in movies they're doing all these weird tricks that may exist for only this moment in time but they work what's a sim swap like how does that work you basically trick the phone company to giving someone else's whole phone onto your phone, basically.

Now, how would you do that? In his case, you could bribe a phone employee. You could call them up, pretend to be the other person and social engineer them and they swap it out anyways that's how like a lot of beats get leaked from rappers and stuff and producers so they have to they need some form of information they need like the last four digits of their social security they need their address and stuff like that so basically they're using other hacking protocols to be able to scrape and get that information, and then they use that to do a full SIM swap.

Just keep pivoting just like the whole fake subpoena thing. What's that? Where you hack into a rinky-dink local police department, and you start shooting out fake subpoenas to get companies to cough up stuff. So let's say you can't get an iCloud account. Well, you want something in that iCloud account, you could just fake subpoena Apple and they'll cough it up. But they won't just give that up because Apple does protect data, right?

They do give it up if it's the right court order, right subpoena, and it tricks them, you know? But, huh, that's kind of weird because the sam bernardino thing that guy was a terrorist that was more at the hardware level though like the actual device yeah this is the service side you know so they make a distinction that because i would say like okay the actual device has the hardware so it has everything on it but like an icloud account has a fuck ton on oh yeah so so why would they just give that up because if they're they're always getting swarmed with requests so

they just try to make the best of what they got so like if they get a bunch of like a bunch of requests in a day saying uh hey you got to cough this up because somebody's life might be in danger they're gonna do their best to like fulfill all those requests, you know? If you have not gotten the Eight Sleep Pod Pro cover yet, then you are missing out because there's no way you're sleeping as well as I do. The Eight Sleep Pod Pro cover comes in queen or king sizes. It goes right on top of your current mattress and it is wired directly into Eight Sleep's proprietary app that measures your sleep stages and all kinds of scientific stuff throughout the night to make sure that you get the sleep, I almost said the sleepest deep possible, the deepest sleep possible. So if you use the link in my description along with the code TRENDIFIER at checkout, that's T-R-E-N-D-I-F-I-E-R,

you will get $150 off your own 8 Sleep Pod Pro cover today. Once again, that is T-R-E-N-D-I-F-I-E-R, TRENDIFIER at checkout to get 150 off and start sleeping as well as i do today so in in the gaming underground yeah you and i were talking off camera about my lack of knowledge i would say on this space but like you know i was on xbox when it was xbox 360 early in high school like 2010 something like that i was a playstation guy this is before playstation was getting big again so i sucked at xbox long story short basically quit after a little while but i was there for the early days of when you know you had the headsets going on you were in different in different rooms with people and i was like wow

i remember thinking to myself this would have been so cool having this on like ps2 growing up and stuff but one of the things that came out of that in like 2011 2012 2013 2014 was the quote-unquote xbox underground oh hell yeah which is how you and i got connected to yes because for people who haven't heard it i had a podcast back in i guess like october november of last year with nick castellucci which actually even though it's one of the more popular podcasts it's one of the ones i'm most embarrassed of like i thought i was he was great i was awful because he was in the xbox underground and he before he came into in here his case was explained incorrectly to me so i already had very little knowledge of this i was convinced to do the podcast which i'm glad we did nick's awesome but like then he got on camera and i was

like wait what so he starts explaining it to me and i had to keep on making him repeat himself because i'm like i must be hearing this wrong but after that podcast and talking with him i started looking into like this whole xbox underground and what a world this was and as someone who's not like an active gamer i could only help but think that pretty much anyone who's not an active gamer has no fucking idea what went on here but this shit was wild as well so can you explain from like 30 000 feet in the air what the xbox underground was vaguely as we know of like who was involved and what they did and you know when this was going on when it was in the come up like 2012 2013 2014 i don't you know there's two members in particular that uh really stuck out to me and uh you know the reason why i started contacting all

the cyber criminals i do in gaming is because i was inspired by xbox underground state pakora anthony clark anthony clark's not with us anymore but he's from my hometown of whittier california and uh they were doing some crazy they were doing uh is it the jtag stuff for xbox 360 they were stealing all sorts of stuff like blueprints prototypes from microsoft they were hacking like all these game companies they were going crazy but um what happened was i was working at target scrubbing toilets and i was a car attendant by the way. And I read an article in the break room on Wired Magazine about Xbox Underground. And it was probably like the most important article I ever read in my life. And none of this true crime stuff would be happening right now.

None of the game stuff, nothing. A lot of good stuff in my life wouldn't be happening right now if it weren't for that article. And when I read it, just like the camaraderie they had the ingenuity and uh and what were they doing oh man they were what were they known for at the time they were like the suicide squad of gaming man they're just pissing everybody off like doing crazy stuff uh they they were selling like mods and modded systems uh xbox 360s allow people play on modded servers they're charging people in english can you explain that to non-hackers um so they were making the game unfair by giving people access

to special hack xboxes they they like hacked a chip in the xbox 360 and they're allowing people to go around and call of duty uh you know not being the the people when they were playing call of duty they couldn't die they were flying around they were doing all this stuff regular players couldn't and they were charging people for that service and they were making a fuck ton of money dude they were going ham dude and uh they eventually got caught up because they they just kept pivoting to bigger and bigger things this always happens in cyber crime man you get carried away like you hack one thing and you don't get caught and then you're like you just keep going deeper in the pool now here here's the other thing

too so let me provide a little context for the people who are unfamiliar out there and the people who are familiar but like where nick castellucci from episode 72 in here was involved among this was the one project that they worked on the fifa one the fifa that was an option that was anthony clark's deal and that that one pissed off thea games real bad but uh well they didn't even know about it until the fbi told them i know and my so anthony clark for full context who's one of the founders of xbox underground that you're talking about who was involved in all these different projects unlike nick yeah he is the partner that nick and i respected totally, did not really talk about a ton on the podcast, and I'm going to keep some of the things he said off record.

That guy's a martyr to me, man. I love martyrs that just make it to the top, man. Well, he killed himself. Yeah. He killed himself. During the court case, EA Games came after his parents. There's stuff that they don't talk about in the news, and I don't want to...

I've been very careful not to even come close to breaking confidences, but I will say this. There is a reason why Nick did not want to talk about that much on the podcast I had with him, and it's not because he couldn't. And I know that it's something he does think about going public with but anthony was a genius he was and he was involved in other things besides that what was so interesting to me and the saddest part is that the case that he went down for that made him kill himself was this fifa case where nick was one of the three one of the four

guys including anthony that brought him down man and that case i can't speak to this other stuff was this FIFA case where Nick was one of the three, one of the four guys, including Anthony. Yeah, that's the thing that brought him down, man. And that case, I can't speak to this other stuff. I'm going to ask more questions on like the Call of Duty thing that you were just talking about and things like that. But like the actual FIFA case, there is a weird law. Fuck, I forget the name of it now, but I've had lawyers from other countries even hit me up about it

since that podcast and say, bro, I'm so glad you talked talked about this it's fucking insane what they do in the u.s but there is a weird law where they were able to find these four guilty of a crime against fifa but in reality fifa was not a victim of anything they didn't they did not steal anything that was of worth money they were able to to basically and I'm oversimplifying it, but this is really what happened. They were able to get the computer to play games. They were able to mod a hole

in the software to get the computer to play games at a high rate so that every time they played a game, they got a moneyless object. It is not worth money. An object called FIFA coins. So the more FIFA coins,

the more games they could play at once to earn coins, the more coins they could get. And there happened to be a secondary market completely away from FIFA online where gamers who were just really into like gaudy things would actually spend a little bit of money on FIFA coins because then they could get something in the game. There's no money loss. There's no anything but they were able to use this weird law to basically say oh if you violate the terms of service via hacking of in this case ea sports with fifa we can find you guilty of like the same thing as wire fraud which is insane yeah it's a bunch of man total but this other stuff that's what i want to know the other stuff that he was involved in because this may make some stuff make sense to me was he also stealing things in other projects where it's

technically a malicious hack and he's getting things that are of worth monetary value not on just like some bullshit secondary market yeah and xbox underground they were doing a lot of crazy shit man but it wasn't you know it's malicious by the law but it wasn't like you know they they had a charm to them for sure they weren't cryptic man they weren't like they weren't like swatters or anything like that they were you know was he known by only his username at the time and not his real name i don't know about that because i didn't find out about all this till like years after the fact but you know i just saw a kid that went from selling popcorn at disneyland to uh making it big as a cyber criminal was like super inspiring to me you

know i was working at target the woman's restroom everybody's having blowouts it was like shark week in there dude i was yeah that's rough dude You're like, this sounds a lot better. Yeah, I just wanted adventure, man. I wanted to do something bigger, man, and definitely held, man. So he was Anthony Clark, and how many other guys were the ringleaders of it? What was the total? Oh, there was a lot of them, man. There was like five or six, and I don't remember all their names uh i think one was like dylan wheeler i think one still on the run i'm not sure he was for a while he was like from australia or something but oh i do know about

that person yeah exactly that's another story okay yeah and uh that thing just blew out of control but my whole goal was thing i'm like let's take the all the good from that you know the camaraderie the ingenuity the innovation the you know being a community around gaming and uh let's let's make the cash legal and we're not going to get as much cash obviously but we're gonna we're going to um you know not go down in jail or whatever. So what are some ways you do that? Oh, well, obviously the games or whatever, but I've sold like software and stuff like that. I put together stuff for like, you know, Maya and stuff like that.

For what? Maya is 3D software. Yeah. So are you fine when you say you put stuff together, are you finding like... Building on top of existing software and finding new ways to do stuff and then selling that asset? Yeah, like plugins.

Like how do you have a plugin for like Adobe Premiere or whatever? Yeah, stuff like that. Which is what they did. I understand what you're saying. That's what they did. They just did it where they would then use it and get, depending on the project, some illicit gains and then sell that for profit and basically steal from the companies.

Yeah. And that's not what you do. No. No. I ain't as smart as them, if I'm being honest. But yeah, I kind of like, you know, I make money off the games or whatever, but my little crew and all my friends and stuff, like, I mainly, they're mainly just friends, dude. Like, they're not really, you know, like, Voxie, for instance, we talk about everything but video games or hacking.

Like, we talk about the DeNovo hacker. Right. Yeah, that got arrested. It's almost like that thing that people say, you're only as too because like it brings the the amount of for good and bad depending on what it is the the amount of intellectual capital that can be brought together at the snap of a finger around the most specific subject matters from around the world to share ideas is crazy so it's almost like to me, I look around now and like, I don't know how everything's not hacked. Because I'm like, all these people, they can all talk to each other all the time.

Like, oh, I tried this. Oh, you tried this out? Oh, I tried this out. And they can use, you know, you guys are smart. You can use encrypted text or whatever. Obviously, it's not stuff you would do. But like, you know, you look at some of these people who are doing this stuff around the world.

Like, they're playing the game too too so they know how to cover their tracks on shit and they they should be able to figure anything out like it doesn't surprise me for example when i hear a story like what laps has pulled off i'm like well how does that not happen every fucking day i know man yeah it's like it really is um still the wild west you know parts of the internet are still the wild west and like that's what i like about gaming too it's like there's still a good chunk of like the gaming community where it is how the internet used to be and like what do you mean a lot of freedom like um like just the way the decorum and the way you carry yourself and stuff it's like not as um claustrophobic like you're allowed to talk like uh more freely and stuff like i'm not talking

like politically or something i'm just talking like everybody's not as uptight you know what i'm saying and uh you know hacking and cyber criminal stuff it's like not as frowned upon as it is in other spaces so like you know well people people are less to me and correct me if i'm wrong here or in your experience if i'm wrong but like people are far more open still on platforms like reddit and platforms like YouTube comments and stuff like that where there's no faces or you can be anonymous versus on like Instagram where it's like your profile and this is who you are you know yeah for sure man yeah yeah they get out of hand sometimes or whatever but um you know yeah I just want to say if uh yeah the youtube comments man uh if you're gonna attack for

this one uh no need to defend me man i'll take my beating you know yeah i always tell people don't even ignore that one don't even look at the youtube comments just ignore that one man it's fucking like i think they're hilarious they're like yeah there's some the shit people come up with i mean they make even if they're like ripping me which is 95 of the comments i mean it's pretty funny man like i'm like wow the creativity on here there's even there's an account on twitter called something like absolutely ridiculous or insane youtube comments you ever seen that yeah fucking hilarious what people come up with man yeah it's like a free uh commu central roast you know 100 yeah but what else like what's the next frontier here like let's talk about some actual

hacking that goes on so like the common ones that people are aware of that seem to happen a lot are phishing right so people will send you an email or a text and you click the link or then when some of them it's just you click the link and you're good they're good like they get in or other ones you actually have to fill out info that they use but like what are some major vulnerabilities that are becoming in mass now among like the hacking community that normal people like like you know anyone out there could be vulnerable and so definitely the sim swapping um definitely the cookie the purchasing of cookies and loading them in your browser now you talked about sim swapping but can you explain the cookies and the purchasing and how that works? There's websites you go to and you could purchase people's browser cookies.

Can you explain what that is to people? It's how the site remembers that you were there, basically. So you kind of full a website that you already visited it on your computer. If you're from a separate computer that actually visited it like you purchased it like somebody's computer got hacked uh you know whether it be by pirate software or whatever you know there's all sorts of ways and then their cookies get uploaded to site and you purchase it that's how ea was hacked uh uh last year i believe somebody purchased like

cookies for like five ten bucks and then uh so someone's crazy ea's stuff was hacked yeah their cookie information was then put up for sale someone purchased the cookie information got inside their system how did they use cookie information to get inside they got in their slack channel uh with the cookies and they fooled uh one of the like ea employee uh customer service basically or you know the self-help thing I don't know what it is but it's EA's like way of helping employees if they have technical issues so basically the EA's own personal geek squad for their own employees or something you know and then so they posed as someone else once they were in the channel and they were able to fool them into getting information

that they then used to get in. Yeah, they got in the system, got a bunch of files, like models, like all sorts of stuff. How did the cookies let them get into the Slack channel? Because basically the cookies for that whole EA thing, it basically said, hey, we logged in already or had the login information in it already. They get it in the Slack channel because it lets them log right in

because it's like, hey, yeah, that's you. Come right in. Based on the data from the cookies. Yeah, the cookies that they loaded in. Oh, because that'll be like remember password and shit like that. So then they pivoted from that to something greater. I don't know what exactly but they were able to like get deeper in their system and then like leak everything from there you know

yeah or grab everything then leak it i think they extorted ea on that one yeah didn't pay up i'm not sure so i guess i never knew the full extent of what cookies were i always thought i had the broad idea but maybe i didn't so it includes it's not just measuring it's not just the website measuring you that you were there it's the website measuring you that you were there and then including any pre-loaded data for the next time yeah exactly like device id so it's like customized yeah it could have login information you know yeah you have a lot of stuff and then uh it just makes getting into stuff way easier because it doesn't view you as a foreign device you know so this is like wow yeah people it is but the big takeaway i seem to get from talking with people who know who are

hackers or know a lot about hacking now and i'm trying to like get it through my p-brain of like hacking is that usually pretty much in all cases it does require on the back end you then getting tricked to give up the mother load yeah so they can get in but they can't re like they're at they're outside the door looking in but they're not in the house and then they have to interact with you under false pretenses and you have to give them information be it social security or something as simple as like yeah you know password to a slack channel or uh device id stuff like that and once they once you the user being fished by someone in this case a hacker gets that now they're in they're in they're ready to go man yeah you know it's

basically a non-verbal way of social engineering you know yeah if you watch most uh if you go down the hacker rabbit hole you just hear that term thrown around all the time, social engineering, social engineering, social engineering. But yeah, it's all about tricks, man. And you get the same result with multiple types of tricks. So you got an arsenal, a whole arsenal, whatever is hot at the moment. Things change all the time. So something that works one year might not work the next year. Same with months or days or whatever you

know yeah yeah so you mentioned cookies you had mentioned the sim swaps earlier we had talked about that what what else what else are you looking at across the space oh like up and coming sure dude i can't even begin to guess man because I'm more like follow the leader on that type of stuff. I see what's like popping at the moment and that's what I'll use, you know. But I'm not the one making these zero days or these methods or whatever. I just see that something works for somebody else and I use it, you know. Yeah. Now, on another note, totally totally separate thing i just thought of this

though there was this netflix docu-series that came out a couple months ago i still have only watched like maybe two and a half of them because i never get to watch netflix these days but like one it was a six-part series on various like internet culture phenomenons that are that have been going on and there was one the first episode was on swatting now oh yeah i had heard of this before i've seen some news stories kind of in one ear out the other like oh wow they someone it's when someone falsely calls in a swat team on another person which is like the full you know guns blazing whatever but i did not realize how prevalent this is like it happens all the time dang yeah uh me personally i've never swatted ever i'm not a fan of it it's just like you know people have died from it and you kill innocent

people so like yeah that's not something i'm a fan of but uh i'm glad you're not a fan i know dude it's just like that's how you get that's how you get caught up doing stuff like that you know anytime there's like anything cryptic like that or scary like jarring uh you're gonna grab a lot of police attention it's just like it's morally wrong because like you know you put innocent people in real harm's way you know you're not just like goofing around jacking up their computers or something you're like actually you know making a threat to their their life so like yeah it's just not cool it doesn't have a cool factor to me it's just not cool it's kind of lame you know i'm saying it you know like it strikes me like and mind you in the documentary they're looking at an extreme case where totally innocent people who weren't even involved at all

like just random neighbors the call of duty one right yeah uh that's the one that happened off the video game the guy from california right yes i'm trying to think of it because he did a bunch of them trying to yeah this was the one where the people in kansas were the neighbors were murdered because the doxed kid gave a fake address yeah that's it i'll tell you one thing about swatters they all have like you know if you see a mugshot of a school shooter or before the shooting picture and they have those bug eyes you know that's what a lot of swatters have dude they're like that's what i'm saying man yeah when you listen to some of the recorded communications and when you listen to some of these people talk

the emotional disconnect that these people have is nuts now a lot of a lot of people these days have more dry ways of talking i would actually say you're definitely one of them for sure but like there's a lot of people like that this is i'm talking about a whole different level to where people are almost talking like almost like they have i don't know if this is the right way to describe it but the way it comes across to me is like a subdued schizophrenia like they have no concept of reality and they do this shit for fun like that case guilt yeah that case it was the person they were fighting over over a dollar bet on a call of duty game and so this dude who was a known swatter online behind some username was somehow involved and the kid who was on the wrong side of the bet who was getting

yelled at hit him up like fuck you by the way here's my address i dare you bitch and he gave his old address so the people who lived at the address are some randos who have nothing to do with gaming and uh the SWAT team shows up and a cop shoots, shoots the guy and kills him. Like, it's fucking unbelievable how, and like, they don't, they have no sense of feel over it. They're like, oh yeah,

that's what lives and dies. IRL lives and dies. IRL just cause there's, they're on some fucking computer playing games. I just, I can't wrap my head around that. Yeah. And all started,

you know, with Pong, just the pixels going back and forth, and now we got all sorts of craziness going on in gaming, man. It's crazy, dude. Wait, Pong? What do you mean? The pixels, the Pong, the frigging, what was that?

One of the first video games ever. It was just a couple of pixels, man. Then it evolved to this. It's crazy, dude. It's crazy, man. Well, I guess the last question would be is there anything you know you've talked about like your own end of it the legal xbox underground 2.0 you're trying to build and stuff like that but is there anything going on right now

in a different light like not an xbox underground or something but like within the hacking community that you view as oh i just thought of another question too after this and we'll keep going maybe i have something else for you but that you view as like the the new era rebels like the stuff that's really making noise that we haven't talked about yet? I would say definitely AlphaBay's been making a lot of noise. BreachForums. AlphaBay? Yeah, look up AlphaBay. It's like

Silk Road. It's like the modern day Silk Road. That's where people get the credit cards, where people get any bad stuff. But they've been going pretty strong lately and that hasn't crescendoed yet it definitely will in the future but um they're going for like the longest run any cyber criminal market has gone for right now and it's been shut down before but one of the previous guys he's running he's evaded police i think the previous owner like committed suicide in jail and they said the other guy's saying

he doesn't think it was suicide but whatever like that that's where a lot of hot spot stuff is right now I know somebody leaked like a bunch of Chinese stuff on um breach forums recently like a like the biggest ever and binance I don't know how you pronounce it but a lot of the crypto places were watching for big transactions uh you know going for that particular purchase of all that Chinese data. So basically, I see hacking. And what are the things that, like the specific, say, top line three types of things that are offered on Alphabay? Drugs, for sure. Credit cards, for sure. And just other. for sure uh credit cards for sure um and just other like illegally

gotten credit cards you were talking about i'm sure they're on there and uh yeah that you know uh i see a lot more of that in the hacking community like the buying and selling it's becoming more easy and rapid so you know you can start out from not knowing anything about hacking and like basically buying your way in and that's becoming easier and easier and easier and easier so that's probably the future of um of hacking is like buying your way in pretty much you know yeah i also thought of this when you were saying that, and I haven't asked about this. I can't believe it. It's a huge oversight. The crypto stuff. How do I feel about it?

Well, let's start there, yeah. All right, so crypto to me is only as good as a real utility. I don't see it. I don't mess with the investment side, because utility-wise, it's great for cyber crime or hacking stuff like you know that's how you purchase a lot of stuff and I I just love bitcoin and monero I don't fuck with anything else nfts I love the concept it's just like not there for me like I there's too many marketplaces going on and kind of they kind of devalued each other by how many popped up and it's kind of like you know everybody makes a dot com bubble comparisons like i'm kind of waiting to see who's the last man standing before i even

like look at that space at all yeah so i don't really mess with that and as terms of uh in terms of crypto as an investment i don't know you know about mlm scams and like avon makeup herbal life like all that type of stuff i just see crypto crypto as like a Herbalife car that just keeps coming around the block every couple of years and people that weren't burned the first time get excited and get on board for the next round. But I do love crypto, you know, for what it's meant to be used for minus all the investment stuff like i love it as a utility for anonymous payments uh you know for anything like you know people want to donate or support something politically that they can't normally like it's great for that or like how so uh because you know like monero and stuff like people can't track it you can't be uh you can't be prosecuted or persecuted, whatever,

for supporting something that's not popular at the moment. Because it's untraced. Yeah, it's good for what it's meant to be used for. As an investment thing, it's just like, I'm not going to knock somebody for making money on it or investing in it because, obviously, it probably will get bigger, but it is going to drop again like that's a problem there's a lot of does false promises with the utility of it they're like this is gonna be used in the

metaverse is gonna be used in and to pay your bills it's like no it's not it's like no you haven't figured that out yet like why are you they're trying to like cash their check early and they they do sell a lot of people on that so i just like it for what i use it for it's like you know you need if you need to buy cookies or you need to buy this or that then you go and buy it and it's simple it's fast you know you can't buy that with a credit card because the site won't let you or whatever like it works for that you know but uh everything else is just not there for me yet. It's too volatile.

It's too much going on right now. Yeah. Yeah. So I have to put a waiver on this in that I haven't read it yet. But my friend Andy Greenberg, who is on this podcast, he's going to be on again, I believe in November or December after his next book comes out. And I say I put a waiver on it because I just got sent it from his publishing company in early copy just to go through it. But in talking with him a little bit about it, the broad scope is it's called Tracers in the Dark. I believe it's going to be out November 15th.

And I've talked about Andy a bunch. He was, as as i said he was on this podcast for number 99 he's a phenomenal writer he wrote the book sandworm about the russian hackers a few years ago he wrote a book on wiki leaks and julian assange because he had that whole story and everything he was one of the big reporters in that but this one tracers in the dark essentially the premise is that andy figured, I don't know if it's all or I'll hedge and say the word most crypto transactions are actually quite traceable by the government. And they actively have been tracing them for years. Bitcoin for sure. But let me say this. Alphabay uses Monero.

A lot of places switching over to Monero. So I don't know how traceable that is at the moment. But yeah, definitely Bitcoin. You're not safe from traceability but in terms of a utility as like getting what you need and you're like let's say you just don't care if you're traced or not and bitcoin is just like it is a utility because it's widely used like it's widely accepted it's like it was first to market so it's like got brand recognition right it's like it's there you know it's it's never going away so for that it's good you know but if you want traceability definitely go monero like you know i've heard of a lot of um people lack of traceability you're saying uh if you want lack

of traceability yes yeah go to Monero yeah exactly exactly but yeah a lot of people launder money through Monero you know when it comes to like carding and stuff like that like Monero's like always in the transaction somewhere whether it's like cash out to Bitcoin to Monero like somebody else's hacked this or that you know they they funnel it a lot of times it goes through Monero. And a lot of that shit happens out of Russia and Ukraine. Yeah, Russians are smart. I mean, there's a theory that Russians are so good at reverse engineering stuff

and so good with computers because during the Soviet Union, they really went hard on engineering and computer stuff. And, you know, a lot of their kids and grandkids, like, they were more fresh with it at a younger age than people over here. So, I don't know. That's just a theory, though. I don't know that for sure. But, like, if you go to any gaming modding site or whatever,

a lot of guys doing the reverse assembly of models and games and all sorts of stuff they're a lot of them are russian or or ukrainian somewhere on you know in uh that part of europe and asia you know yeah there's a guy i'm going to be having come on in the next couple months who i want to ask him a lot about that because he was a major credit card scammer like he had been homeless and it was like the way he got out of that when he was a kid and my understanding is that a lot like the majority of the creation volume on the carding comes from that region like the russian ukraine region like right i think i may be wrong about this but it's like literally like in the bordering areas of both so there's like some sort of

overlapping network i might be wrong about that but i know it's from that part of the world it's just so it's kind of wild to me that like even in the internet world there can still be focuses of of areas of expertise on things that are moved online as opposed to like it could technically be anywhere right there's still like places where they congregate and that seems to be one of them yeah even more so like you know credit cards are more valuable a bulk thing of credit cards more valuable than a bulk thing of like bank account information bank and routing you know all that all that type of stuff yeah why is that i i think it's because it's easier to funnel the money out of it's easier to launder

the money out of quicker you know and that's probably why because like swipe of a card yeah with transfers there's a lot you know you could trigger a lot more alarms especially just logging in or you know whichever way you get the money out is you're trigger a lot more alarms especially just logging in or you know whichever way you get the money out is you're going to trip more wires in uh with a credit card or debit card whatever for sure so yeah it has more value yeah you know well that's an interesting to go back to the crypto thing that's an interesting way to look at it like you seem to have a very passive view on it that's not overly emotional either like you see the utility but you also it's like miss me with the with the explosion of adoption right now it's not there so i'm gonna let the dust settle a little bit i'll never uh knock on anybody for

investing in it because could very well be a good investment down the road but um to me that's not like what sparks my interest about it i've seen a lot of people get caught up usually a lot of people that get caught up with the investment side of it and they're doing all the coins everything but like the top three or top four or whatever um yeah there there's like a lot of fluff in there that you know is going to come crashing soon they're like oh yes like they're just there for the whole mlm side of things you know it's been it's like in what you're explaining to me your whole like everything you're excited about you're just excited about how far this coin is going to go up like yeah is this coin really

going to have everlasting value is like going to actually be used for something that's widely adopted? It's like, no. You're just waiting for it to go up and cash out. You don't care what it's actually going to be used for. And everything's on a promise. This bank's going to do it. This game's going to use it. This store.

One store uses it, but we're getting more stores in the future. And then everything comes crumbling down. The coin goes away. That's what I've seen mostly. You don't have to name names, obviously, here or anything like that, but if so, have you seen any hackers that you've been involved with online or speak with who have openly, behind the scenes, launched coins that they're just looking to

basically rug people oh the rug people um no i don't know any personally uh you know for for a moment in time it was a quick and easy scam it's definitely getting harder as as things go on more people are aware of it and more people are hesitant than ever before so i also tell people man if the government wants to figure out how to make a case they will oh yeah so if it seems like it's up it doesn't matter if they use the existing laws or not they will find just like they did to nick you know like they wanted to so they did you know and yeah so with people who are like well it's not a security or stuff like that i I'm like, well, they'll make it one. Yeah.

Retroactive. Like, you just have to understand. And that's the thing. Like, if it feels like a crime, you know, their view of justice is, well, then let's make it a crime. Even if that's not constitutionally the way to do it and I can have a problem with that end of it, it's like, well, you know in that position for that to happen they want to get you they'll get you man they got they have like more tools to persecute people than you know they do to like it seems like to catch a serial killer apparently it's like they get people on such bs stuff it's it's like they'll burn their brain out trying to get somebody on some low-level stuff and then go after the big fish.

It's because, to be honest, I feel like they're lazy. It's just like easy big fish, easy notch in the belt. Thank you for doing it. Much appreciated. And I hope everyone else enjoyed. This was interesting for me. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought.

Get back to me. Peace.