Julian Dorey Podcast - #20 - James Corbett

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

James Corbett is the Co-Founder of Project Refit, a Non-Profit Organization that works to combat isolation and reduce depression/suicide rates within the veteran and first responder communities. To learn more about Project Refit, visit their website: https://www.projectrefit.us/  ***TIMESTAMPS*** 3:01 - 12:37 ~ Fight or flight communication; James’ “childhood curiosity”; Steve Jobs & attention to detail; Learning how to be wrong; Jeff Bezos’ analytical mindset 12:37 - 20:42 ~ James’ baseball dream growing up; James talks about dealing with anxiety; James’ path through Columbia University studying complex systems 20:42 - 31:01 ~ Caring about what people around you and the outside world think of you; Julian tells a Kobe Bryant story from Bryant’s Patrick Bet-David Interview; “Society’s anxiety”; Negativity Bias 31:01 - 36:41 ~ Veterans understanding of life and death; Veterans mentality towards the rest of society; “The monsters” in the world 36:41 - 42:44 ~ James’ early work to find solutions for cancel culture; Apes & blunt communication; What genocide data charts tell us about other things completely unrelated 42:44 - 47:26 ~ How James and veteran Dan Lombard started Project Refit; Comedy, Argumentation, & Logic 47:26 - 58:26 ~ How comedy is a form of problem solving; Project Refit concept analogy: balancing gym partners with gym trainers; the Project Refit app and online community and how they work 58:26 - 1:02:31 ~ The military “tribe” and the struggle many veterans face once they leave it behind; The parallels between athletes and the military 1:02:31 - 1:11:04 ~ The Project Refit “Fire Teams” and how they work; How veterans just want to help people; Other trauma victims outside the veteran and first responder communities who gain comfort from Project Refit; “Trauma is trauma”; Helping encourage veterans and first responders to see therapists 1:11:04 - 1:19:17 ~ Therapy and the problem of “telling people what to do”; The DARE Program and why it failed; the problem with Suicide “Awareness” and why Breast Cancer Awareness works; Copycat suicides; Psychological conditioning; Empowering the every day person 1:19:17 - 1:27:43 ~ “Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell and its discussion on war games; General McChrystal, JSOC, and the actions the US military took after 9/11 to empower their units on the ground 1:27:43 - 1:32:23 ~ How the Project Refit  app was built; The importance of taking Project Refit directly to the veterans and first responders; James tells a story about a young marine veteran he met on the road 1:32:23 - 1:36:16 ~ Town fairs, the mobile “box” project, and the Project Refit Hybrid Model 1:36:16 - 1:44:39 ~ Veterans, First Responders, and the evil they see and therefore understand; focusing on the “little thing... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. I want you to really think about that. We can sit and silence you for a little bit. I really want you to think about that. I'm not even joking. Anybody that's listening to, think about that. Because I get where you're coming from, like that combat. I get that. But a lot of

these guys don't want that for anyone. There's some things that happen to me I would never wish upon my worst enemy. And it's not even close to that. Right? Not trying to compare it, but, like, dude. We're talking life and death. Literally.

What's up everybody i am joined in the bunker today by james corbett james is the co-founder of a non-profit called project refit who works with veterans active duty members and first responders both current and former. Some of the issues that they deal with relate to PTSD or stress from past work or current work, whatever it may be. And specifically, they really work to combat isolation. You'll learn all about the actual organization within this podcast, but I mean, James is about as passionate of a human as you will ever hear he talks at a million miles a minute he probably came in here hopped up off enough coffee to kill six horses and I gotta tell you maybe it was just me sitting across from him but I hope it comes across when you're listening that this guy is all about what he does he just wants to help people out and and he's been building

this organization with his co-founders for four years. They're doing a great job. And I will say it got a hell of a lot more relevant, especially when COVID hit. Not that they could have ever planned for that, but dealing with isolation specifically and some of the downsides that come with that, especially for people of this background, you might imagine that COVID put an entire new lens on that. And so it was pretty cool. The project refit was right there already booming and ready to roll when COVID actually did hit. So if you are not subscribed to Trendify with Julian Dory, please subscribe. If you haven't left a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, please do that as well, along with a comment. That's a big help for new listeners coming in to check out the show. And continue sharing the show with your friends.

We're building a nice audience here. I'm very excited about the direction. I say it every week, but I want to reinforce that. I'm having the time of my life doing this, and the audience I'm building is really thanks to you guys spreading the word. With that all said, you know what it is. I'm Julian Dorey, and this is Trendify. everyone understands this but you seem to do it if you don't like the status quo start asking questions james thanks for coming in man for sure man dude i i love it you rolled in ready to roll we we've been talking for like an hour and a half yes for this podcast we literally didn't even get the cameras rolling because you were ready to just go off on a whole bunch of things going on but uh really appreciate you taking the time man for sure i'm here i'm

really happy to be here so one of the things that we were talking about a little bit ago i just wanted to touch on because i forgot to follow up on it when when you were going through it but you were going over like the fight or flight response yeah and you were talking about how you integrate that into what you do. Can you, can you expand upon that a little bit? So it's actually the way I like to use it. So, just to go over it so everybody knows where the conversation was, we were talking about how do you communicate with someone who has a certain belief or something like that, or has their, their steadfast on something, right? They don't want to give up on it. Cause it's, it's almost like they identify with it. What I like to

do is I like to talk to people and I like to say, Hey, listen, before I say what I'm about to say, cause it might upset you, right? Before I say it, I want to explain to you what's going to happen to you. When I say what I'm about to say, you're going to get really upset and you're, you're going to maybe hate me for a second, but I want you to know that I'm just spitting logic and fact, and I'm just trying to talk to you. All right. I'm caring about the person sitting across from by saying that I want them, I want them to know that I'm not trying to make them uncomfortable, you know? So, um, and then I explained to them the fight or flight, like if, so I've done jujitsu and I've wrestled and I've, you know, uh, Muay Thai, all that shit, like for many years.

I haven't done it since the COVID thing and all that stuff. I was going to get back into the gym and everything like that. But I'm a little weird. I don't know. I'm probably going to go back soon. But anyway, so what happens even in those situations is sometimes like I can explain a certain time when I was doing a training where we had a bunch of guys around us and then they'd all attack from different angles and shit like and you're just in the middle defending yourself my uh my professor my professor so in jujitsu it's called professor so my my my professor was like are you good man like you looked like you're like losing your shit

i was like i don't know i was under attack you know and i just went into the mood you know so um but it was it was obviously just a joke. But for real, like it does happen. People, they see cloudy, like it's cloudy to them. They're seeing red almost, right? When you're telling them things that make them uncomfortable. So I like to explain to them, remind them that I'm your friend. I'm here.

I'm actually just, I care about what you're saying. You're setting expectations up front. I'm trying to set the expectation that i do care i don't hate you i'm not trying to harm you i'm not attacking you because i even talk i also do recognize how i speak sometimes it's super aggressive man like i just it's just how i speak um and some people get really uncomfortable i just like spit on your mic some people get like really uncomfortable with that right so. So, but I would rather a person be caring and direct. And that's how I like to be. Cause it's what I want, how I

want people to talk to me. Right. I want them to understand I do have feelings, you know, but at the same time, don't hold back, but just remind me, Hey, I'm going to make you really upset, but here it is. and then what's the chemical imbalance whatever's happening in your brain you fight or flight mode it's all going to be triggered and you might not hear me and you might hate me during the conversation now if you go to give your opinion on something to somebody and it's the kind of situation where you have to diffuse it up front and they might get upset at it i do that that all the time. Right. But do you still go into it with the idea that there might be a possibility your mind could be changed if you successfully diffuse it and it's not? So I don't even think about me. I know that I

operate different than a lot of people with my brain. I'm, I'm, I was actually just describing this today to someone I was talking to. I have a childlike curiosity and I don't want to be right. In fact, I'm going to put this out at the very beginning of this podcast. Like I'm, I'm not right about a lot of things because I know that in the future, a lot of things that I like, I think, or whatever are going to change. Yeah. This moment in time where we're at might, we might have knowledge or whatever, but I know nothing. I will always stand by that. And that's the only reason why it gives me an opportunity

to work in the creative realm, right? To innovate, to think, to, I mean, like you have Steve Jobs up there on your wall. Like he said, the greatest artists borrow. I love that you called him an artist. Right. Only the real ones know. Yeah, like that's what it's all down to.

My man, like what did he put? Calligraphy is what sparked his innovation yeah right like sitting in the college classrooms and stuff like that i actually it's funny because i didn't know that and i one of my favorite things so my family my grandmom she passed rip rest in power that's what i say um so yeah it was years ago i love her like i'm not writing it off but like you know it's i'm over it you know like just she had lived a good life, she was really into calligraphy, and I love calligraphy. And then I found out Steve Jobs loves calligraphy. And I was like, what? This is cool. I'm not saying I'm Steve Jobs, by the way. I'm just saying it's cool to have an idol who also enjoyed things that you or I or most people don't think about he was and his his dad who he didn't have a ton in common with just because his dad was you know he was adopted and his dad and him were definitely different but one of the things that really got him thinking on things like calligraphy and and all the little things around product was that when he was a

young kid maybe like five or six he saw his his dad finishing off building a cabin or not a cabin, a cabinet. Sorry. And his dad was taking just as much time on the back end that goes against the wall as he did on the front. You know, every single angle, smoothing it out, whatever. And Steve was asking him, like, why do you do that? No one's going to see it. And his dad explained to him, said but you know and if you are going to make anything that you wouldn't want to be able to look at yourself you shouldn't sell it to other people and so that really sparked steve's idea of

like hey every little thing matters because even if one person notices it you'll know that they did and so then he got he he took that whole artist realm and all the details like the writing like how a product feels what what what materials are used how design takes the forefront of technology even i mean it all it all was born out of that and to bring it back the reason why i'm open to listening to other people is because of that. If you think about it, I just know what I know or think I know, but I'm always open being wrong. And I think that's like an important thing, right? I think that's important for any communication. Actually, that's something that I think of all the time. I think it's wrong. We're not taught how to be wrong. Actually,

we're always taught how to be right. And we're not taught how to be wrong. And're always taught how to be right and we're not taught how to be wrong and it's uh you know i love my family i love my dad and my mom and all that stuff like but something i recognize with my with my dad actually he used to push on me books books books books read i read read read read read and then like oh hey dad i read this blah blah and then it'd be like oh you're always reading books and it's like you told me to do that yeah it's like you know like why did you but it's because like you're learning something new Me in this case. I'm learning something new and I'm going hey I learned that this thing that you told me was actually wrong and I learned how there's it there is a delivery to it

and actually the only time ever ended up being okay with it is I read a story about us Jeff Bezos and then I actually listened him talk about this story also on, I just remembered that. I also listened to him talk about this direct story. I forget where it was. It was a conference. But about how he was like, one day he figured out when his grandmom smoked or his mom smoked

or something like that. It's like, oh, hey, grandmom smokes for so many years, she's actually knocking off this many years of her life. She's going to die around this time. And I figured it out when he was young. And she started crying. And he's like, what? I just did the math i thought that was smart and then the grandfather later said hey look like or his grandfather father i forget which it was doesn't matter the sentiment of the story has brought him aside and said listen you're very clever and clever is good but you can't just like do that to people you got to care about the people and what

they say which is why i'm saying here to you also bringing it back to the original question you have to be able to do the listening part mmm it's key right like you have to be able to have your mind open and you I know that I know a place where they're where they're gonna want to do exactly correct yeah you have communication sometimes you will have to have the the leader in the communication yeah right and I think I'm not, the, the leader in the communication. Yeah. Right. And I think I'm not saying I'm the leader or whatever. I'm saying like in most communication scenarios, I try to be the person that's leading because I want to learn. It's actually a selfish thing that I'm doing because I want to hear you, right? Like, but I also want

you to hear me. Yeah. So that is why I'm doing that. That's why I let people know like, Hey, this is what's going to happen to you potentially and I want you to remember I want to hear you I'm going to argue with you I'm going to say no to things and I'm going to question your logic and question where you got things because I want you to do the same thing

I want you to eventually pull out your phone and look something up and it's like okay cool thank you I love that that's how you learn I hope people hearing this can feel it themselves It's like, okay, cool. Thank you. You know, like, I love that. Like, that's how you learn. You have such, I hope people hearing this can feel it themselves just listening to you. But you have such an aggressive passion for things.

And yet it's not off-putting at all because you really do strike me as the guy who walks the talk with that and is very open to hearing what people have to say. But, you know, the reason I brought you in today is because what you're doing now and yeah obviously i i know what project refit is and how that's going and what that is but before even getting to that what what did a guy like you do like what was your journey how did you get here what what were your interests and your passions when when you were younger and then maybe even going to college and trying to figure out what to do with your life? All right. We're going to do this right now. We're doing it. We're going there.

Something I don't really talk about very much ever on any kind of interview, but I like you and I think this is cool. I like the way the setup feels. This is a great time. You like the bunker here? Oh, it's badass. I like it a lot. Thank you, man. But I wanted to play professional baseball, actually.

Yeah. That was good, right? But a lot of people don't know what ended up happening to me even during high school. I expressed how I wanted to do that. Now, again, God, I'm going to paint him in a really bad light. But I love my family. I'm not going to say all that shit. I just want to make that really clear.

I do. Putting it up front. Let's go. And you know what? Before I get into it, I'm not saying all that shit. I just want to make that really clear. I do. Putting it up front. Let's go. And you know what? Before I get into it, I'm actually going to put out a caveat. I found out later in life my dad suffers greatly from anxiety issues. Greatly. Like chronic anxiety.

And he projected his own anxiety onto me when I was a kid. Right? Like there's nothing. I don't blame him. I actually understand now. And I understand him to block out and all that shit. Like it's just fear that is his own. That's why I'm also like, I guess, obsessed with the thought of like, listen to other people. Sure. Block it out. Just listen to them. Listen to their heart. That's interesting though, because you took, and it can go the opposite way very often with people. But you took your own, in this case, negative experience of not feeling like you were heard.

And instead of then projecting that onto other people knowingly or unknowingly, you go for the opposite on purpose. Yes. That's very cool. Because it's – I think my brother did this. My brother is brilliant by the way. My brother is super smart. He works in nursing but he's got his master's doctorate. He works specifically with people with mental illnesses and such.

Oh, wow. Yeah, my brother's brilliant. Respect him to no end, actually. And I think that with having the upbringing that we had is why both of us are kind of going towards this realm. I just love business and I knew I had to create something when I was 12, so I did it. And when did the baseball dream? So this, yeah, I'm going to bring it back to the baseball thing, why it's so important. So I wanted to play baseball.

I was really good. And I actually started to get in my own head because at home, right? Baseball is mental. Baseball more than like anything else is mental when I would come home I would hear only one percent of baseball players make it to the big leagues all the time right only is only like negative negative so I kept on thinking so what the fuck is the point why am I why do I care to have this dream right and that was really affecting me that really that affected my play I wasn't focused on the field I kept kept on thinking like, what the fuck am I doing here? What is the point of this? Why am I playing this shit anymore? Right. It affected me with like everything, actually. right so um that's when i recognized like as i got older uh when i was actually at columbia when

i had this thought i was talking to a professor um uh and he he was cool guy uh so professor coleman so we're in class columbia up in new york yeah yeah yeah yeah columbia university um so but this guy was like he impacted me in such a. I don't think he ever like even knew. He has a TED Talk and I'll show you. Go check it out. But it's all conflict systems and shit that we're talking about, right? What is conflict systems? So I'm sorry, complex systems.

I was studying negotiation and conflict resolution, right? So like on mass scale, like countries, governments, shit like that. Could you give an example of what you would work with? Israeli-Palestine, right? That's a great example. We studied that. That's the example? Yeah, that is the example i can give that everybody can understand like that system so so many different things playing all at once and you know trump got that through like the i think it was a treaty between israel and palestine happened recently like he's

gonna win a nobel prize or whatever peace prize potential for it um there's so many issues that were around that right i mean like that's what we studied extensively over there um you were also talking to me about yeah and i don't remember the context of this so i'll bring you back to baseball after this yeah but if this is totally out of left field i don't know if this was it but you were talking about like traffic jams and stuff and the data around that is that an example of the data it was so yeah that's complex systems so I think it was Sweden that did it but they basically got rid of traffic lights in a lot of areas to reduce accidents

that were via looking at your phone and shit because they're like hey pay attention now you have to there's no traffic I think it was that country but there's no added like i think it was that country but there's like no added um help like you know like system that's helping you navigate the road you have to do it on your own so you have to focus more now on the road get rid of your fucking phone so they

people are now putting down their phones and you know accidents are decreasing in the country where that was put in or in the area that was put in. Now, are they slowing down roads, though, because they're basically taking out the things that keep them flowing? I don't know. Like I said, I read and I grab the main point and I leave. I don't know what that is. This is the way my brain works. I don't remember names very well or anything like that. None of that shit.

But I remember main points of things. But anyway, yeah, bringing it back to the point. Baseball really fucked me up. Having all the anxiety pushed on me and uh negative thoughts very loving guy again my dad very loving it's just i want everyone to understand like that is an actual mental issue he has yeah um he misses vacations because of it like he doesn't go to the different like places or whatever because he's afraid he's going to miss out on work he's going to get fired and all the worst scenarios in the world are happening in his head. So it's debilitating.

And it affected you directly. It did. And I look at it because only great things come out of great conflict. Great good things come out of great conflicts, right? Even internally or externally, it doesn't matter, right? Hard times create hard men and hard men create good times right i think that's what the quote was so like that makes sense to me that's one of those like quotes i actually hate little quotes but like that's a quote that i understand the logic of one right because then good times

create soft men soft men create hard times it's a fucking like we just said circle of life man exactly so uh baseball sports ended up fucking me up because it's a lot of mental game but it made me harder right i i am now you cannot convince me not to do what i'm doing now right it has made me a new part i'm a brand new person i went through my my turmoil internally affected other people as well if you know hurting whatever i hurt other people when i was younger. You know what I mean? Like, I know I messed up,

but I also know because I was tormented in my own head and I know where it came from, right? And I don't blame at all, actually. When did you figure that out? I was probably, again, besides at Columbia, actually when I had a lot of these thoughts, I really, dude, I love the train rides back from Columbia. I would actually take,

I would take like three hour trips to, if I can go to school and shit. Like I was still living in South Jersey. You commuted to Columbia. It was out of my mind. Yeah. I was, it was cheaper.

I did the math. You're crazy. I know, but it also allowed me, I actually wrote, uh, I wrote a book on how to do spray paint artwork. And I was on the train.

Like I wrote papers for myself on like, I was doing a lot of work on me when I was when I was on the train. Like I wrote papers for myself on like, I was doing a lot of work on me when I was going to Columbia on the train. You strike me as a really self-justice kind of guy. And here's what I mean by that. It appears to me like you're somebody who is constantly introspective on your own actions and you genuinely care about how other people feel

feel about you as a result of that i don't okay i was just having this conversation on the other day i actually don't really care how the outside world views me because i look outside world that's different yes but i'm talking about your people exactly but the people that i'm close with the people that i interact with i want them to know that I hear them and I care about them. I want them to, for sure. Key distinction there, too. Yeah. Because a lot of people these days get so caught up in all the fucking noise online and everyone just being able to say whatever they want at any time and we we genuinely stay up at night worried about what

some dude we've never met in our life thinks about us or thinks about that thing we did or why we got this comment on that or whatever and everyone gets in their head and they're they're worried about people they don't know and they're never gonna that's right but they often lose sight of the fact of what the people they actually do know think of them because they're worried they're worried about the general public and and they think everyone's crazy enough to think all the eyes are on you at all times and they're not no one gives a fuck you know we're all individuals in this world there's 330 million people in this country and that's not how it works but when we leave behind like our own

relationships our own family our own friends and and we we kind of take for granted that connection we have and and how they might be feeling a certain way about us or, you know, not even taking the cues of when they're like, Oh, I didn't really like that. Or, Oh, that was great that you did that or whatever. We lose that ability to even communicate at all. Yeah. I think too, um, when it comes like the outside world, I think we shouldn't, when I say, I don't know how you mean it. How do, what do you,

I'm going to ask you a question. That's cool. Dude, you can do whatever the fuck you want. So here's a question for you. Cause I heard you say this and I have my view and I'll share it. But when you say no one gives a fuck, how do you really mean that?

In the context of? The outside. Outside. Not immediate circle. I mean that in that if people already don't even know you, they don't have any psychological tie to you or your doings or what's going on in your life in general. And maybe the best way to explain this, I heard this ironically from Kobe Bryant, and this was a line I heard shortly before he died.

Rest in power. Yeah, seriously. Literally. And he was talking about his rookie year. He did this great interview with this guy, Patrick Bet-David. It was like four or five months before his death. You ever seen that? it's it's amazing and it was the most it was almost poetic I guess with how it all ended up tragically going down but it was the most uncut unedited no bullshit Kobe Bryant I've ever seen like actually really digging into what goes goes on in here and he was

talking about his rookie year when the Lakers were in the playoffs and he was starting to get a big role on the team and I think they were in the second round playing against the Utah Jazz who had at the time Carl Malone and John Stockton they they ended up playing the Bulls that year they played them two years in a row in the finals against Michael Jordan but they went to overtime and maybe like game six or something like that when the Lakers got eliminated. And in overtime, Kobe had four or five air balls. I think it was the fourth quarter overtime. He had four or five air balls. And so on a national stage, people were like, oh, and the rookie Kobe Bryant, the young kid out of high school,

gonna have to take a lesson from this air ball and left and right and people were laughing and so once he finished that game like you he looked at it very logically and he said okay why did i airball like why was that happening i don't do that when i'm practicing i never fucking airball and he realized that before this season where he had played an 82 game season in the nba and then you know 10 15 games in the playoffs the longest season he had ever played was like 35 games in high school so he's like I don't have the legs straight up I don't have the legs to do this so obviously that's what I'm going to train and I'm always going to have the legs from here on out but he started training that night and the reason he explained this is my point the reason he explained he was able to start training that night and not worry about it is because he said no one cares he goes i'm somebody on it on a national stage at that point actually like supposed to be an important

athlete playing in the playoffs playing at the highest level they cared about the air balls when i did it they'll talk about it in the news stories in the morning and two days from now three days from now because we're eliminated we're not even in there anymore no one's gonna fucking talk about it and so the outside world if you let that just constantly come in like all these people are saying all these things all the time the attention's on me and and and no matter what i do like like people are gonna be judging me for it and i gotta worry about that and that's gonna drive the decisions i make then you lose yourself and you lose your ability to focus on the things that matter and actually focus on what's going to make you better in the future.

That's what I mean when I'm saying no one gives a fuck in the outside world. Cool. That's how I view. I'm not going to share anymore because that's it. All right. Well, great. Just had to make sure that we got that out there because I feel like when people say that and the reason why I wanted to, and I'll explain now why I asked that question to you,

when people say nobody gives a fuck, like they make it like super negative yes right and it's like no no like it's not about the negative it's not about like oh fuck that guy and fuck that guy no man you're still a human you should still respect people you should still listen to people even on the outside world right i might i might listen really closely to the people that are close to me and like really hear them out sure but like even on the outside world i'll still listen to you i still care i still think your life matters yes and and that's that's not what i'm saying i'm saying i know you're not yeah that's very clear that you're saying that actually the general you're not saying that i should say yeah the general noise is

bullshit right general noise is actually society's anxiety pushing it on to you that's what it is, bro. That's what general noise is. And I was trying to explain that. I've never heard someone put it that way. Yeah. That's what that's literally. I explained that to my friend the other day.

I was like, listen, society's wrong all the time. Society is wrong. The only thing society's good for is that we're now not getting preyed on by bears and fucking mountain lions and shit. I can't believe you said that, man. Everything else is literally just bullshit. You just create your own story within society. It's cool for that too, is stories. Like that's the Greek tragedies of the world, right? People are always talking about like,

oh, everything should be good and mamby-pamby. Fuck that. No, it's not, man. Sometimes somebody has a great business and then they get hit by a fucking train. You know what I mean? Like that's what happens. You're cracking me up right now because this is a conversation I've been

having with people just where I literally use that example to over the past two or three weeks. Like it's happened like three or four times. And it is the idea that as mankind, our general default is negativity. Negativity bias. It's by the way. Yes,

exactly. And the reason is why were we put on this earth? Like, what, what, or not why were we put on this earth? What happened from the beginning of time when man existed, and it exists in other, you know, animals as well? What happened? When you're born, you are... Other species you're talking about? Like, other human species?

No, no, no. I'm saying, like, even, like like regular species, like bears and shit. Got it. Every organism is born with an inherent need to try to survive. Some is stronger than others, but they don't want to die. Who can gather food fastest? What do you mean? Who can gather food and water fastest and most productively is the most successful species.

Where we're made. Yes. Our brain. Now I understand. We're collecting food and stuff better like our appendages all that good sorry yep so when you think about where the earliest humans when they came on this earth what what they had to worry about with that inherent need to survive they they walked out they walked outside and it was like well i hope i don't get mauled by a

fucking bear today or like how am i gonna make it to when it's dark tonight and i go back into my cave to wake up no one thinks about this but that's how we're wired so when we look at society now we have the easy iphones and all that shit there's still that wiring of like shit is gonna go wrong and my life is not gonna be great so let me project that onto everyone else that's right it's society's natural anxiety that's right and you know i just realized oh my god this is a cool thought okay all right all right it's not this isn't necessarily fact but it's a thought i just had i'm going to share it because i think it's super fucking cool okay all the way back when cavemen right cavemen were really good at being in like small tribes then we have to communicate

better we get fire all that shit then we uh have larger tribes and we have people who now can relax there's more relaxation time now right because we're safer a little bit safer and then the safety factor of how intelligent we get actually increases increases increases increases which means our brains can develop our brains now are thinking about other things like the greek tragedies happen because there are these huge cities and shit so there's more people who have more time to think about things deeper dude holy shit so think about this with me real fast we actually became the reason why we got so good at like collecting food and everything our brains were so smart that we got so good at it we started making other issues and troubles around that right around our like we just

started making shit up because we stopped worrying about what actually matters life and death right these simple for survival is going away right now bro it's freaking me out right that just freaked me out that was my thought man and now with all this connectivity we have we have more time and and more resources yes to get worked up about i think you literally said that line get worked up about it and it's it's it's a common theme in everything what a cool thought dude what a fun thought it injects all the way across culture dude i got chills dude i totally i totally did too i mean it's everything that we do comes back to our need to feel a purpose on the earth yeah and the ultimate purpose you

feel is survival and so now when people are less afraid of that and and how about that too with covid because everyone how about that with veterans yeah well that's what we're gonna be talking about today holy shit okay keep going let's let's come right to that someone said something well listen so someone actually gave me this thought the other day because i was i'm thinking about constantly about like veterans first responders like they're under those are like those guys like the guys that are out there like protection wise they're tapped into real purpose real life they actually have a little bit more they have a better understanding of what life actually matters like what matters

life and death constantly and they volunteer to put it at greater risk and here's the other thing too so someone i've never put it so elegantly and simply actually as uh so this girl lisa she said this to me okay i'm gonna give her credit so flat out like i've talked to people about this before but never so elegantly was it stated and simply she's like oh my god um and she's one of the smartest people i think i've actually talked to like in a long time um it's actually kind of an honor to talk to her brain but anyway um she she was like oh my god um a lot of like veterans are like nurses where like we we sign up because we want to help people and stuff and sometimes it's out of necessity and sometimes when they leave or a lot of times it seems like now veterans and then first responders like when they're done they feel like everyone might owe them something and they might not do

it intentionally by the that's not not talking shit on veterans at all right that's something we have to maybe address that was like maybe you feel like like because you say things like oh it's a fucking civilian like that's for the you gave yourself you literally were willing to die for that person who didn't hold that door for you yeah and it triggers you yeah right you are literally willing to die for they got to cut you off in traffic it's subconscious it's subconscious exactly so that thought when she said that i again i've talked about something like that but that was so simple and elegant i was like what the f Lisa that's brilliant and i'm and i'm saying that again as a way for us to better understand each other right because one of the goals of even project refit is kind of bridge

that gap between veterans first responders and civilians because some civilians are like fucking scared of like veterans and shit because especially combat veterans like oh because he can fucking kill me right and it's like, stop it. That guy literally put his fucking life on the line for you. You should understand that. But like, you shouldn't put him in a higher place than you or her,

and they shouldn't put themselves in a higher place than you. Right. But like, it's just an understanding of the life choices. Right. It's just, that's all it is. Right.

And just be grateful for that. Like, thank you for doing that. Thank you for signing up. Whether you did it out of necessity or not, I really appreciate you for signing up and volunteering to be in the armed forces, right? Put yourself in the front lines.

And that's why I'm so, I love, they're Americans. Everybody's an American to me. I love America. I love America. I love the United States, right? The freedoms that we have. You're starting your own dream here. I love that shit.

I do. And I want to protect that. It's a country. I want to help facilitate your own dream here i love that shit i do and i want i want to protect that it's a country i want to help facilitate your own success you know what i mean like you continue blowing up you keep on doing this i'd love to be a fucking guest again you know what i mean i'd love to do that shit you know like because that means i'm supporting friends or i'm supporting a guy that i think is super fucking cool right and like i just want to see you grow right because i think you're gonna do a lot of good and stuff like that you know and and i think veterans the veterans i get it the guys that sign up because it's a lifelong dream i would love to see the data actually i don't know if

this exists or not but i would love to see a study done on the guys that did sign up out of a dream like i've always wanted to be in and whether they have really bad ptsd depression anxiety when they get out because it's actually almost like they fulfilled the dream and then the guys that did it because it was almost like a necessity like i have no other option i'm gonna go in you know like i need i need this and they're grateful for it some of them come out super grateful for the military and shit like that but someone come out and they're like bitter i wonder if they fulfilled their dream they could have thought it was going to be a bootloader to whatever their dream was because military opens a lot of doors and then maybe it didn't. Sometimes it does.

And I think that's something else that's a problem. It's information overload. It's another thing we're actually trying to solve with Project Refit. We'll get into it. But like those are thoughts that I've had. And I'm like I'm trying to really understand. But I don't know if that data exists. I haven't looked into that.

So I'm not going to. That's just a thought that I had. I just want to put that out there. Like, I want to know, I would love to know actually the severity rates. And if like the guy, and you can't talk to the dead.

So like, you can't talk to a guy that committed suicide and see where he was. Like, did you fulfill a dream or not? You know, like, was it truly a dream of yours to go into the military and like, see what you saw? Cause dude,

they see the monsters. They see humans are monsters monsters are humans right scooby-doo they fucking pull off the mask of that monster you know pull off the head and it's always a human humans are the monsters right like they see that they've seen they've pulled off the mask off of all those fucking guys even themselves sometimes and they look at themselves as monsters and it's totally understandable and they shouldn't be judged for it which is nothing i'm trying to say you have to be super tough man when you're in the military especially combat guys like they have to

be fucking tough and even if they're not combat and they're in the supply line like you know bullets fly bullets don't fly without supplies something that's said all the time so like even supply line guys like they are very important but their job sometimes can be mundane and tedious and like whatever else it is and they feel like they're not moving forward if like they're stuck in the mud they're not like you're just doing what you gotta do at the time being you still have dreams you can still push forward you can still go go with it you know what i mean you can still go after whatever you want that's something i think people forget is like you can go after whatever you want you can do it there is a way but um

i think that that's that's just something i would love to see, to bring it back again. I would love to see the data on, was this your dream or not? Now you were, to go back to your journey, you went to Columbia for? Masters. I left, started a business. Yeah. Got it. And what business did you start? So I've been building up, I've been trying to figure out a way to help local communities communicate effectively and on non-bibiased terms actually since uh like i was 24 so what does that mean um what we were talking about actually before the podcast about how like you know so all right so i kind of had this thought years ago that oh our society is getting super like extreme and people aren't a terrifying thought and the cancel culture is going to be real. And I actually started trying

to figure out how to solve that problem of cancel culture with algorithms and with like, and not me developing algorithms, like me developing the logic that would go into the algorithms. Actually something Mark Cuban talked about, my bad. Something Mark Cuban talked about was, you know, the future, you're going to see a lot of jobs being created for uh the people that are philosophy majors within the technology world right and then you talk to the developer to develop out that logic so i've been trying to figure out how to like solve the problem of cancel culture before it happened and i obviously wasn't able to catch up with that but something i recognize along my journey is there's actually communities that are having this trouble. And the only way you can affect that change is by affecting change within a community.

At Columbia, studying, I just chose a negotiation and conflict resolution. I wanted, I just, something about it called my name. I just fucking went for it. I was like, fuck it. I'm just going to listen to my gut. Just go for it. I did it. I was like, fuck it. I'm just gonna listen to my gut. Just go for it. I did it. And I was like, oh, oh, oh, cancel culture and political correctness is coming from a super liberal college saying that political correctness is a problem.

And then we looked into why deeply. Right. And when you look into it deeply, it leads to cancel culture. Yeah. So I heard that from a guy that I believe leans left, taught us that. And with data, right? And one of the coolest studies to describe the importance of blunt communication and direct communication actually comes from apes. I forget the name of the study and everything, again this study just stuck with me where uh there would be a younger ape pulling off the the maggots or fucking bugs

and shit eating the bugs and cleaning the uh alpha male the alpha mape right the alpha ape if that little ape fucked up you know what that alpha ape did now remember uh it's an ape what i'm about to say okay this is not what you do to your kids i'm not saying you do this to children and actually any kind of physical abuse is really bad for kids but anyway turns on smacks the shit out of the fucking smaller ape smacks the shit out of it and he runs away like basically crying and like goes into a little but you know what the ape does later the ape walks up after it's thought about you think about what you did you know and he fucked up he comes over and he showed he actually turns the apron and then

shows him what to do and then he goes and then he like taps on his back or whatever and the ape turned around and starts doing doing it the way that he was just taught deterrence and building it's fucking it's crazy dude yeah it's crazy so like so if you look at that like the the ape was very direct and what it wanted and and hit the other ape whatever but like that's how they communicate um in our world we're canceling thought right for years now it's been building up political correctness when you say for years where did you see so when did you first see it and and social media facebook uh also actually i think it was actually yik yak um is the yik yak uh craziness right that's the second time yik yak has come up in like the last two weeks hilarious

yeah yeah but like but it's a great example for for what happens when you begin so they they fucked up when they changed they started like they started feeding into this like they would have been still around i think if they didn't change the brand, it didn't put names to people. They kept it anonymous. It would have been a shit show for sure. But you're allowing people to get out what they want to get out. There's another website, Whisper. I think it's still around.

Like you can just like post up like random shit, like whisper.com or whatever. Like, but the thing is like, you have to allow people to be them yeah right like i personally don't think that it's okay to silence people because like the when you begin to silence people um if you look at i forget the data i actually forget the data again i remember the main points you have a quick there was a study quick mind i i could tell there's a lot in there there's a lot yeah so there was a study that i read it was actually at columbia also there was a study that i read that showed genocide okay where genocide started and you look back 10 years and you see the point in time where you saw like a little uprising would pop up and that would be sequestered it would be silenced and pop up silence pop up silence pop up silence exactly correct just

fucking hockey stick right investors look for that in their businesses that they invest in and once you had a hockey stick projection you don't want to see that in a society when you silence people for long enough it will explode stop the silencing stop cancel culture bit big media is doing it yes all the time but the bottom line is when you push an agenda somebody's going to push back and you don't want you don't want to keep on silencing a one side all the time you got to hear you got to listen to each other which actually is something that i want to even with project refit it's very important to project refit actually because like we're talking mental health now, right? You don't want to silence somebody who tells you,

hey, I'm having an issue. If they tell you that they're confiding in you, you don't tell them, suck it up. You don't think about yourself in that moment. People think about themselves too much. Like, oh, I don't know what to do here. You know what you do? Just listen.

Actually, also, if you're so tough, suck it up, embrace the suck, and go down that rabbit hole and just let them vent. All right. I think it's time for us to actually go there. People keep on hearing about refit. We were going through your story, how it all happened. But now you hear an answer like that. And as a listener, you're like, okay, what's this project?

What's this guy all about? So just take it from the top. What is Project Refit? How long have you guys been around, and what's the general story right now? So I leave Columbia. I start a business, an app or whatever, and it's all around, again again like that uh trying to find a community trying to help the community communicate better right in a in a real manner have real constructive conversations i recognize it's not working out because it's just like people look at it as

it's just another social media platform it's like it's not but okay so like then you sit back and i'm like oh you were making a platform yes i didn't know that yeah okay so i sat back and i'm like oh you were making a platform yes i didn't know that yeah okay so i sat back and i was like all right so what's the what is the thing that i have to do and i started studying more in like community right i'm like all right we need to bring it back to marketing 101 basics business basics what's your community right so my a lot of my friends are military and first responders you know growing up in combat sports, that's what it is. And to be clear, you weren't. I'm not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm civilian. You're a civilian. I'm a civilian. I'm an American. Some say, oh, you're a patriot. Whatever. I'm an American.

I do love our country. And I'm like, who are the people that I know really well I'm like it's always been the you know veterans and first responder military guys like I just know them right um and I'm like what are some things and issues that they're running into what are some problems that they're suicide of course right boom of course and but, why hasn't it gotten better? So many organizations are out there, right? What's going on. And then when you ask guys questions and what I did is I, before getting the asking questions part, what I did is, you know what? I think I have an idea for it. So then I see a friend of mine that are an acquaintance, really, he was an acquaintance at the time,

uh, an acquaintance of mine, uh, that year prior year and a half prior right his name is dan lombard co-founder that's your project refit yeah met dan lombard out of the bar he's home just got back from uh i think it was afghanistan uh and you know he's just about to deploy to africa and um you know we just were talking and he's a cool dude what year is this uh 2014 2014 2015 i think yeah 2015 just about so he's there we're talking he's a good guy i like him you know nice enough and and you know, fast forward a little bit. He puts up a status on Facebook and he's like, hey, so listen up, everybody. Getting discharged, medically retired out of the military.

Got PTSD. So I'm a dickhead to you. Sorry, I'm working on myself. You know, it's not personal. You know, like he's, by the way, he's one of the funniest dudes you'd ever meet in your life he's super cool uh but he got medically retired yeah yeah uh pts he got transitioned out so when i saw that i was like the way i look at that status uh i was like okay that's a leader in the making you know he's not afraid to just be direct just like me i'm very direct i like that. And he's open, right? And I know he's funny.

I fucking noticed he's funny, you know? And I like funny people because I think funny people are actually some of the smartest people. I think that's a sign, a major sign of intelligence, actually, how witty you are and clever, right? So anyway, so because actually to be funny, you have to be logically sound so yeah if you look into the uh this is a tip for everybody if you really want to get in the comedy if you look into the makings of comedy it's actually all logic it's incredible what do you mean by that so so so so if i don't know if you ever done like argumentation or anything like that ever looked in argumentation like modus ponens and all that shit like okay okay but there's a good communicators and people who are super smart have a certain

sect of like rules that they follow almost like the um it's almost like the scientific method there's a certain processes you have to go through right so uh comedy actually follows very similar things like if i say this and then i say that is that funny or do i have to mix it up a little bit like where do people actually chuckle and laugh kind of you're you're actually learning how to communicate is all it is it's you're actually learning how to tell a story better you don't you and you don't view crafting a good story as problem solving uh i don't i don't actually no i don't i would say it is because whenever you are crafting communication especially when it's through a story you feel a certain way about it and you

are trying to project how you feel about it to get other people onto other people to get them to feel a similar type of way or to experience it in their own way where they are moved by it or they understand it or they you know through storytelling they you build a relationship with people that way and so when you're doing that if you know this full detailed story in your head whatever it might be personal something you heard whatever and with to bring it back to comedy if you know the way that a joke is supposed to land because what it's what how you're going to describe it is is in a certain way that makes people go ha i understand okay and then they find it funny well you have to be able to do that in a way that isn't just boom boom boom boom boom it needs to be

very nuanced and have a certain flow to it and do it like the communication has to be it has to be special in a way so if you just take take the bullet points and read that, there's nothing interesting about bullet points. You could take the best joke of all time, again, comedy is the example, and just list the bullet points of it and no one's going to laugh. Whereas when you have that little flow of the way you use your tone and the way you move from this point to that point and and then it comes down right to the final landing and and boom hits people across the face that's that's what i mean by the problem solving you essentially the the problem there quote unquote is that you need people to be able to laugh and they can't laugh right now you need to make them do it and then you make them do it by the way that you communicate and the way that you formulate the communication throughout the beginning to the end i can see that okay so um so uh as you're going through this scientific method right and as you're like developing like whatever it is like and using the logic behind

the statements and such right um i i saw the that dan was good at this communication right i saw that he had he had a semblance of it and leadership also is communication all that shit so i reached out to him right and i was like hey dan uh what does the army do for you like when you get diagnosed with ptsd and is that why he was medically discharged because of being diagnosed with PTSD? Yeah. Wow. So he responded. And by the way, go Army, go Navy, go everybody. Military is great.

We need you. But he was like, I don't do dick. I was like, all right, cool. So I was like, hey, how about this? And I put forward an idea that I had that I thought of. And I was like, hey, man, when I'm communicating with people, I really like to see them like their faces. I want to, cause I want to read your eyebrows and your nose and the way you wrinkle your fucking mouth and shit. Like I want to see you, you know? And the reason why is because you get to tell a lot about a person when they're doing that. You

can see what's actually being said behind their eyes, right? Cause they give themselves up all the time, right? People do that and they can do it through their voice everything right so i hit him up and i'm like i have an idea for a video chat platform where we connect guys instantly at the tap of a button and he was like it sounds dope love it and you're talking about for veterans yeah that was the original idea original just veterans got. An active duty military. And he was like, dude, that's fucking cool. I was like, right, man. Isn't that cool?

Because he, at the time, he'll say this himself. He's like, at the time, he was craving to talk to another guy that went through the same shit he did from the same time period, same war, all that stuff. Now, he'll even even say like so i he downloaded this app where they did it you know where they had something where they matched you up with a veteran or whatever he's like he's like the man's a beautiful man he'll say he's a beautiful man it's a beautiful app i'm not going to say the name of the organization but they're a beautiful organization but it just didn't work right that's literally what he you can look at why like that's what i'll tell you that's what that's what like he would say that shit and like it's all good but the reason why is because this guy was from the 80s right navy 80s shit oh the guy who made the app no no the guy he was connected with through the app okay and he

was like that just didn't scratch the itch as he says too right didn't scratch the itch and what we're trying to do is bring uh we're eventually going to develop the algorithm even bigger and better, but the thing that we're doing now is we're letting you choose your friends that you get connected to. So what we're doing, so I'll give you the perfect analogy so everybody can understand,

and I'll even show it in a second. So did you guys build an app through this? We did, and I'll explain the whole process and all that shit, but what we're doing with the logic and the thought process, okay? You have gym trainers, you have gym partners.

Your gym trainers are the guys that will teach you. They're your therapists, your psychologists, your psychiatrists, your trainers, right? Then you have your gym partners. Just as important, actually,

if not sometimes more important in the whole health journey of lifting and all that shit. Your gym partners are people cheering you on keeping you accountable keeping you accountable or sometimes just as important if not more important than your gym trainer right so your gym partners don't have anything they're your regular friends they don't have anything built right now for them in the mental health game right they don't have anything right it's just like you just text them call them whatever but

like and i'll get into the study that brought me this i did my own independent research actually i went out to for a year and a half actually from 2017 when we were founded we were founded in 2017 till like 2019 beginning of 2019 summer i was doing research on my own talking to people constantly going out to events like local town fairs and shit talking to every veteran and first responder i could find because eventually we opened it up to first responders well because so many first responders are retired veterans like fuck it they have issues too bring them in baby and by first responders you mean like emts police officers and firefighters yeah and corrections officers and shit like that right that and that realm right so i sit there do a lot of research, and I find this one quote, every single one of them say,

life gets in the way, man, like I would do my and conduct my buddy checks, my radio checks, the buddy check, meaning I'm calling you, check on you, but life gets in the way, I'm like, I get that, I actually understand that, I'm not blaming you, I understand that, actually, that makes sense, that actually, that's a problem, pick up a phone, call, call, call, it gets tiring, right, you have to set aside maybe up a phone, call, call, call, call. It gets tiring, right? You have to set aside maybe three hours every week to do that. And if you send out a text, even sending a text out to your main boys takes a while, okay? Life gets in the way and you forget.

And that's okay. Forgive yourself. I'm not blaming you. That's not the point of this. What we did is we solved that problem. We broke it down to one button that you press and you're going to check in on your top five fire team members we call it a fire team your top five boys or girl women as well when i say boys i'm a boy i'm a man like you're my boy

right but like you're your people your top five people right and you get to send that message and you can even customize it, whatever, but it gets sent out to all of them. Like, Hey, how you doing? You good? And you conduct that check-in. And then if they hit the, or if you hit the talk button, that's on there called the radio check tool, hit that talk button, a push notification gets sent out to your gym partners. Again, gym trainer, gym partner to gym partners. Hey, I kind of want to talk. I got to get something off my chest. Right? And if it's an emergency, we have emergency routing and stuff like that where you can call it a suicide hotline and stuff, but sometimes they just want to vent. Yeah. And you're going to put the people that you trust most on your fire team.

If your fire team doesn't pick up, you know, within the first minute, it's going to get pushed out to your friends list. If somebody from a friends list doesn't pick up, it gets pushed out to the entire Blue Skies community, which we eventually want to have millions of people downloading it. So like we, millions of veterans and first responders downloading it, right? And that's what we're excited about. We also built this tool

to help out other nonprofits. Nonprofits like Recalibrate, for instance, they have a peer mentor program. They have a one to two ratio right now. One guy with PTSD, two peer mentors. They keep in touch with each other.

Well, why not expand it from one to five instantly, right? And at the tap of a button, one to five. Help that organization help more people. We're not going to tap into your money. We're not taking money from you because in the nonprofit space, it's very competitive. I think it's an issue. I'm not going to talk about that though because it's not important right now. Very competitive. Not a lot of partnerships happening. It's actually, you see more partnerships, I think, in the for-profit realm than you will ever see in nonprofit realm. It's very weird. I don't know why that is. Kind of have an idea, but that's what I've noticed. Could be wrong. I'm open to being wrong, always actually. And in this case,

I hope I am wrong. But what we're trying to do is we're trying to also add like dashboard on there. We have a list of other nonprofits. We have a list of therapists we're going to put in there. A list of podcasts that are, you know, run by veterans and first responders. Books written by them. Musicians that are in that space. I want to have that thing built for you to see your brothers and sisters succeeding. And you're going to do it together.

There's a form in there. We can have an open conversation between you and uh group chats and single chats how did you get the earliest veterans to buy in and and was it just mostly through dan's friends or uh kind of uh but no at the same time it was actually just us uh so we have another program that we have it's called the uh Check Buddy Check-In where we go live every Monday and Friday and Wednesdays are private. Who goes live? We do. Project Refit. Got it. And we go live on our Facebook

page, Twitter, and Twitch. Well, Periscope for Twitter. But we go live and we talk just about anything actually. We're just hanging out. And if somebody needs to get in there, they can come in. We'll send them a link.

Just message our page. If you need to talk, fucking come and event. It's cool. We're actually bringing our Radio Check tool that we built into the app and putting it into practice and showing you from the front, leading from the front. Right? How important it is that we're doing that. Right? And that's what guys respond to.

They see that we're trying to build a community of trust. They're seeing that we're trying to build a community that they understand. They understand. And that the people within understand each other. Right. Because when you leave the military, you're losing a tribe a lot of the time. Right. And sometimes purpose. And it's hard for them to find purpose again. Something so meaningful. Again, going back to the idea of like, you know, the world owes me something. They come out and they recognize, oh shit, nobody owes me anything. And that's a lot to take on sometimes. That's a lot. It's heavy, man. That's super heavy. That can get dark fast. Right? And it's, again, it's not a complaining thing. It's not talking shit on them this is real human emotion and thoughts right this is not talking negative this is not me putting you down you need to empower yourself through story and and let people see who you are and you'll be okay anyway the mo you're working against is that a lot of veterans and first responders they come from a world where that that is the reality they know it can end like that that's right and

they know they have a job to see the monsters they Scooby-Doo their Scooby Doo they're pulling off the mess they see that humans are the monsters 100% yeah and they also learn that way that they have to look out for themselves completely they have to be self responsible and they you know in order to be responsible for other people as they do doing this job, they first need to be able to be self-responsible for themselves. They forget that. Right. And so when they have these thoughts and they come back into society and they're struggling,

even the ones who aren't struggling with necessarily PTSD, but are struggling with that reintegration in society which also you know as you're alluding to is veterans who struggle with that have suicide problems as well it's not just people with ptsd i mean it's it's it's a wide-ranging type thing and as you're struggling with that your natural inclination is to not ask for help it's to not recognize that because you're supposed to be military strong because society's anxiety is being projected onto you. Yeah.

Yeah. Society's anxiety is being projected onto you and you're listening to it because actually you want to, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like this is a personal opinion. I feel like military guys are so actually, they're so good at listening to direction because that's what they were

taught. Listen to direction. They're actually being trained to go into running the fire right getting shot at doing something illogical right they're being taught to do something illogical they have to listen but um when they come back into the world they have to be self-reliant again and it's hard that's fucking hard by the way right make your own decisions and shit people who are employed by employers you know your job you actually understand veterans better than you understand yourself yeah believe it or not you get where they're coming from because you don't want to lose your job you're going to do what your boss tells you to do almost always you're

going to do that chain of command chain of command society is that they the people have that social anxiety like you have to do this you have to do that you have to have the the white picket fence and the kids and this and blah blah blah no you don't man you can do whatever you want you can be a fucking gypsy you can do whatever you want right whatever makes you happy fucking just do it stop living under this weird construct and i think that veterans are very susceptible to feeling those pressures because uh veterans and first responders feel that pressure because it's like they're for also because of the chain of command thing and they want to have that back that structure back structure is great for humans really great actually for humans and um well that's that's key they come back home and

there's no structure yeah now it's not someone – like when you're in the military, your day is scheduled out. That's right. It's not scheduled – like you don't schedule it. It's scheduled for you. That's right. And you know what? And not to draw a false parallel here, but you see some of these guys who are professional athletes and they leave their careers – That's not a false – that's not false. That's correct. Yeah. I don't feel that anymore. athletes and they leave their careers that's not a false that's not false that's correct yeah there's actually an organization there's an organization out there that exists i forget

what it's called you can look it up but where it's like literally bridging the gap between professional athletes and veterans and they're talking to each other there's a crossover there right 100 you're correct the the athlete's day is scheduled out they're told what to do they're told on practices what to eat all that everything and then like that it's gone and then what the fuck they then they have all this money and they lose it all because they don't have to do with it and like there's tons of tons of parallel actually yeah tons of it it's a great analogy thank you great analogy thank you because like there's and and i think that also is a great analogy because it softens the blow a little bit again if you're a veteran you probably already turned us off if

you hate me for what i'm saying i'm sorry but like if you didn't hear me out there's there's things out there for you to use ask for help right like and veteran first responders same thing ask for help right i think we're so afraid to ask for help people because you're tainted by the distrust right when you've seen so much shit like that you're jaded you're jaded and rightfully so why wouldn't you be jaded and how – so you talk about the fire squad. Is that what you call it? Fire team. Fire team.

Fire squad, you're getting killed. Yeah, yeah, sorry. It's okay. Wrong equivalent there. But you built this out by creating these pods, so to speak, of your earliest adopters of veterans three, four years ago. And now you guys have, what, a network of over 10,000 veterans? We reach, we've actually reached this year alone, helped out directly and indirectly through our Radio Check program and also even our app, over 200,000 people. Wow.

And I actually include civilians, too, that come in. It's actually kind of cool to see. I'll explain what that means. So in our chat, we have people now that are coming into the program. So it's usually all veterans that come into our radio chat program and like, you know, hang out and talk. Well, we're seeing an influx of civilians that are coming in and saying, hey, can I talk about chatting? And you're letting them chat. No, no.

They're doing a chatting on like, well, yeah. So if it's like they want to come in, like, fuck it. Like, come on. We're going to back you up. Americans. We're fucking Americans. Okay. Yes.

Veterans and first responders, the guys we want to bring in have them hanging out talking like almost that's what you focus on but you're saying the veterans are open to having other people with similar experiences because that's the person they protected they're still in that mode almost all the time yes like every single person can say oh i fucking hate people right all that bullshit but at the end of the day, like, you'll still help somebody out. What kind of people come in? Anybody. I don't know how to answer that.

But what are they? Yeah, but what are they looking to talk about? Like their own traumas? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's people with traumas. Like the other day, we had a woman who was like, hey, I was referred here by one of the veterans actually in project refit, like refer me over. Just,

it's a civilian, right? She came and said, can I, can I just like talk about something? And she was typing in the Facebook chat during the live stream. And I, I stopped everyone from the account.

I was like, Hey, hold up. I just want to say something to somebody real quick. And I said to her, I was like, Hey, listen,

like, go ahead. Don't like, don't fucking hold back. Like type it out. We're going to keep talking, but please like type it out. Once you type it out. We're going to keep talking, but please like type it out. Once you type it out,

we're all going to read it. Okay. We're going to be there for you. She typed it out. She fucking put it up. Another, she, she put it in brave.

She put her story, whatever the hell happened to her. I'm not going to say it on here, but like then someone else came in, just another civilian backed her up in the chat. Then we talked about it, backed her up, validated. You are allowed to feel the way you're feeling it's okay it's almost like it's almost like we we need sometimes humans need like that reinforcement of like you're not fucking crazy

you are you have you you have negativity bias it actually protected you for so long now what protected us as humans whatever whatever that was and you don't have to say i have an idea in my head i might be right i might be wrong but sure was it something because when you do these obviously the majority of your audience and and you're buying are the veterans and the first responders and stuff but sure was that you mentioned that a civilian came in and backed her up but was that something that some of your veterans who were in there and and in your community related their own experiences to very seamlessly or was it a little different um

i think it's just trauma is trauma okay um and when you grow up in this world everyone experiences a type of trauma you'd be lying to me if you told me you didn't have any kind of trauma everyone has everyone does every single person every person and i think what we're actually beginning to prove to people is that whether you're a veteran and you were holding, I'm not going to get too deep because it might trigger somebody, but whether you're a veteran seeing shit, first responder seeing shit, or you're a civilian seeing shit, we all have that one word in common.

We've seen shit. It smells. It's terrible. If I can step in, I'm going to scrape it off with your fucking boot, whatever it is, right? It's not that easy, though. It's not that easy. You get some crevices in there. You might miss it. Even even when you get the power washer out you might not be able to get it

you know i mean like still somewhere in there right like there's still some leftovers some particles bottom line is like we all stepped in it okay and when a person steps in it all you have to do is just be there for the other person just the way you wish someone listened to you even if you don't do it all the time even though open up just remember that you wish you had that at some point in your life and just be that person for that person at that time it's simple it's actually simple yeah and people we we make it complicated because we're told all the time this is not talking shit on therapists psychologists psychiatrists or the medical industry mental health industry at all when I say this.

Okay? So I want you to, if you're a therapist or anything, listen to this. It's not an attack. Okay? I want you to know that there is a thing that happens when we tell people that they have to go to therapy. You actually end up disqualifying everyone's voice from helping each other like the regular joe that jim partner's voice at that point is then sequestered and silenced and you're actually doing more harm than good what do you mean by that before i before i go at that the therapist

and the psychologist psychiatry and all that like there's there's just like realm of like oh you don't know how to deal with a person when they're when they're hurting really bad it's my friend i i'm gonna talk to my friend it's okay if i talk to my friend and you're trying to create that outlet where people are friends yeah gym partner gym trainer analogy right right like i'm trying to create the tools and trying to empower individual voices hey you can help your friend out gym partner you're just as important actually and in fact you're so important if your buddy needs to go to therapy you can cheer him the fuck on or her on to go to the therapist. And you become the ally of the gym trainer or the psychiatrist, therapist, psychologist. And frankly, by default, unless the therapist is a veteran, there are inherent things.

If we're talking about veterans specifically, there are inherent things that you can understand about what someone's going through as a fellow veteran that a therapist may not be able to every time? Yes. Yes and no. I don't want to minimize that, actually. So I thought you were going to say something else. Therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists, they're trained. A lot of them, some are good, some are bad, just like everything else, right?

But they're trained in how to communicate with anyone. And that's actually something that veterans need to understand. You don't have to talk to a therapist that was also a veteran you can talk to a therapist that never saw shit but they're so well trained and they actually care you just gotta look for somebody who cares that's it just like the friends that's that's actually what you kind of just stay away from this thought because that's actually you may be minimizing what you could do for one of your friends that's a veteran you can listen to your boy and hear him out and you actually might be able to understand some of the pains that he's going through right and qualify it with an i statement like oh dude like i i might not understand what it's what that is exactly but

your pain that you're feeling i feel that because of this so i get that empathy yeah you can break it down empathy for sure and and but anyway so the the tools that we built we are trying to help out the friends group the gym partners right because eventually we want people to go to therapy like the greatest news i just got the other day was one of the veterans that we we've helped out significantly i love the guy uh he he's off of social media all this shit like he deleted it all and everything the only way we're saying contact them now is like call him up or like through like app or like whatever like and text and shit his wife messaged us she's still on social media so she messaged us through facebook and she's like i have the best news i was like

what's that and i just got done talking to this guy like a week ago and she's like i just want to say thank you for calling him and just like talking to him i was like yeah she's like he's he's in therapy he's going through cbt cognitive behavioral therapy I was like, yeah. She's like, he's, he's in therapy. He's going through CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. I was like, let's fucking go. Right. I was down. I was like, dude, this is it.

That's it. That's it. It gives me chills. And I think about that because it's like, that is literally what we're talking. It's a patient game. Be patient with people. And you're not telling him to do i'm not telling him shit i told him i i suggested if i was like dude you should think about therapy but i'm here for you

but think about it that's all i'm saying think about if you ever want ever want me to give you an introduction or do research for you on finding one like just please think about it and then somebody else in the chat because he actually came in one of our radio checks before he was like hey man i went through therapy dude i actually seen similar shit to you man it fucking helped me out it did and and then he's like oh okay thought about it for months months but you don't like someone in your position you may tell him that right up front but you're not when you do the radio checks with him or when you're in one of the fire teams or whatever just talking talking. Yeah, you're just talking. You're not reminding them every day you should do therapy or whatever.

That's right. You're not holding it over them. That's right. Because we deal with it so much in society now. And I think we just don't recognize it. But people fucking hate being told what to do. People want to feel like they make a decision for themselves and they weren't pushed into doing it. Because they are doing it for themselves and they weren't pushed into doing it because they are doing it for themselves yes and so there can be ideas whether it be culturally personally

politically whatever you want to say that might be right or might be far more correct than the alternative or whatever's happening right now and they don't get through to people because it's preachy and you tell them that just because just because you know it's right or really believe it's preachy. And you tell them that just because you know it's right or really believe it's right, you're not seeing that other people already have that not diffused front where it's like, oh, well, why are you telling me exactly that this is the 100% right thing for me? It's like with your parents. They tell you when you walk up to your 15-year-old and you say, don't drink. Now they're more likely to drink. Can I give you an analogy to back you up on this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The D.A.R.E. program. Yeah, go off. So it's – Tell people what D.A.R.E. is. Tell people what D.A.R.E. is. It's an awareness campaign. Yeah, awareness. It's an awareness campaign on not using – it actually educates you on drugs.

What does it stand for um i'll look i'll pull that up start explaining it something education or whatever uh i'll pull it yeah yeah i i i'm so mad anyway uh drug abuse resistance education exactly fucking mouthful yes okay so so. So D.A.R.E. failed, right? Actually, they noticed and they did it and they had it out. There's more people using drugs, okay? So D.A.R.E. created more use, actually, at the end of the day. And it's something that over at Project Refit we focus on heavily.

There's some awareness campaigns that do a great job. I'll give you an analogy, or not analogy, I'll give you an example of a great awareness campaign. Breast cancer awareness. It's great. Breast cancer awareness is great because it doesn't cause breast cancer. Right? Breast cancer awareness never has a chance at causing breast cancer ever. Ever.

Not once. Not once did somebody get breast cancer because of the awareness. However, dare and suicide awareness can sometimes lead to drug use or suicide. Oh, how does it lead to suicide, James? I'll tell you, listener. How it leads to it is kind of, but it's actually, there's an example called copycat suicides. Yes, that's what I mean. Yeah, it called copycat suicides yes that's what i mean yeah it's copycat suicides right that's real you talk about it so much normalize it and then the copycat suicide is where let's say uh chester bennington's a great example love him rest in

power brother um like i love lincoln park got me through that when i was younger um obviously now you know a little bit about my story but like you know got me through a lot right i love lincoln park people died because he died they killed themselves because a leader that talked about not killing yourself killed himself and then other people killed themselves they found out about it and it's a copycat suicide epidemic right we're not epidemic but suicide uh i can't think of a word but doesn't matter you get it so um i hate suicide awareness all of us do we think it's trash awareness without action is actually bad because it also but here's the thing when you say suicide awareness and let's even take it a step farther let's say suicide awareness for veterans that is reminding or telling normalizing normalizing that attitude in in the heads of veterans who see it and that's the point

it this is not psychological conditioning 101 because you are you are coming out and you are defining entire groups of people entire tribes that you may be a member of in this case if you're a veteran you are a member of the veteran tribe or first responders it's getting really bad in police community too because that's the thing and firefighters and you constantly what do we talk about earlier with negativity and how we how we fall back to that automatically yes so what happens is over time you hear it again and again and again and eventually when it's beaten into you so much that oh that is something that happens in my tribe and it happens to people it clicks off in your head that oh that must be happening to me too.

Or maybe, even just maybe that's happening to me too. Whereas I love the example you bring up of breast cancer awareness because breast cancer is a tangible bad cell cancer, right? Like that's what happens. Like some people get it. Maybe they eat the wrong food. And the awareness is teaching you how to take action for yourself yes and it's also trying to drive money to be able to increase the medical research that's right it's not actually like saying like oh you're gonna get

breast cancer it's saying hey yeah some of us do just be aware of it and like do your checks correct yeah whereas with suicide it's not tangible not tangible. It is an idea born out of a mental – Be careful with that. Why? Because sometimes it does – it is tangible. Just you can't see it. What do you mean by tangible? Sometimes it's a chemical.

It is a chemical imbalance sometimes, right? Depression, anxiety, things like that. Yeah. Sure. So just – that's what I'm saying. Like don't – so here's the thing. Breast cancer awareness is great because it teaches you how to check yourself. Suicide awareness needs to get better at checking yourselves.

We need to teach people and build tools like we did. By not saying the word. Tootin' my own horn, right? At Project Refit. Tootin' our own horn by Miami hour, right? Project Refit. Tootin' Project Re refits horn that we built tools to help you check each other check in on your boy without reminding without leading with suicide and

saying you guys may commit suicide here's suicide awareness right it's just hey look check on your boys yeah we already know about it it's fucking out there we know it's a it's a major problem we need to we need to stop talking about it so much and doing shit right so we actually talked about the uh the the push-up thing right and like we're like dude like we're over it we're done doing push-ups it's not doing like all right great like there's there's like push-up people do push-ups 22 or whatever push-ups or something something like that it's like a thing in the veteran community like do push-ups and like for suicide awareness right great you did push-ups you know and there's a guy over there that's fucking in a corner you know hovering over bullets that are like fucking dropping to the

ground he's trying to put him in his gun and kill himself in a second you're doing push-ups over here you should actually instead like like on the back of the shirt like on that i'm wearing right now for the ruck we say ruck awareness take action call a buddy right i think social groups a great organization also called irreverent warriors they get guys together and they do rucks like they want the community to come back together get outside again bring your boys bring your brothers and sisters together and let's rock together and that's where you're carrying around all the the weight and such yeah yeah but but the point being is the group matters we we're trying to build tools for groups like irreverent warrior right we're trying to build

groups for groups like like recalibrate i like organizations that take action right i like groups that are trying to create more than you don't have to be a therapist and a psychologist to have an impact on this community you don't have to be is what i'm saying but that's not minimizing their job their job is still very important but we're not doing enough of empowering the everyday person because it's a i described this to someone recently and they were like and it was it was a veteran i was like dude i'm gonna bring you down the rabbit hole war that you understand we're actually in a war with this and there needs to be more money going towards tools that get your infantrymen like the bullets don't fly without supply they get your infantrymen supplied and give them the tools necessary to check on each other you need to get funding into

this space for helping the everyday joe help them to help each other. And you're actually now maximizing your resources in an intelligent manner. Right? There's a great example I can actually give for what we're trying to do. There's this book called Blink. I don't know if you've ever read it or not. Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. That's correct. So, there's an example in there of General Van Ripper. Okay? General Van

Ripper is brilliant. He beat the United States military. He's the United States General, by the way, in what's called the war games. Okay. He was brought in because he's such a brilliant general. And he said to his men, I actually want all of you to navigate this war. This war. I'm putting up air quotes for everybody who's listening.

Like, it's not truly. It's war games. They're actually testing out new theories and hypotheses and things like that to create new theories. So, hypothesis and theory, the scientific method. Theory is sometimes based on fact, but it can still be challenged and changed. Anyway, so based on these hypotheses, okay? And the first go-round of this war game, Van Ripper fucking annihilates the United States military. The United States military made things really complicated in terms of how they were approaching the battle right they had everything planned out they knew every scenario they thought they knew

every scenario every piece of technology that they had right like they would knock out the they would throw an emp blast and knock out all their communications via you know uh like cell phones and and radio and shit like that you know what they did they actually communicated via fire signals and lights and like they morse code and things like they actually were still communicating effectively amongst each other they were actually communicating more effectively because they were doing it silent so now you can't hear anything when you knock out all their communication vmp and they actually uh took out i think it was with a small Navy. This is all hypothetical, by the way, right?

This is again, war games. Took out like 20 of their ships in one night, okay? And he did that because he didn't have his men report back to him. They didn't make a, he didn't make a complicate. He said, I want you to react and then tell me about it later. So what we're trying to do at Project Refit is I'm trying to take those individual friend groups and treat them the same way. Right.

Project Refit is trying to treat each friend group that comes out of the military or is in the military and first responders or retired first responders. Let them communicate with each other. And then it's right. And if they have issues, give them the tools to get them to the leader or get them to the help that they need we need to do more of that that kind of communication will change lives there i i believe it was uh general mccrystal i think i'm gonna check after this if I have that right. I wish I had my laptop. I'd be helping you out.

He does a lot of speaking engagements now because he's retired from the military. And I think it was Afghanistan where it happened after 9-11. Okay. He talks about how the military finally started to have success after really a lot of stop and go, prone to not taking action on things type patterns that they were falling into. And the way he explained it was with the chain of command, there to make a move on position x or whatever they had to go through their direct colonel who had to go through this guy who had to go through that guy who had to go through that guy whatever and so what was happening was decisions didn't happen because that all takes time and then also the message gets lost along the way it's it's too far there's too many layers are you talking about jsog i don't know i i'm not sure keep going but there's like this the the chain of command ends up losing the the message over time and then taking too long and

nothing happens so what and again i believe it was mccrystal what he explained is that when they first went into afghanistan you know obviously responding to 9-11 and a great disaster that happened here, and there was a clear goal. Take down the Taliban. Mop the floor out there. And what they proposed in the military was that they would allow for pods to make decisions so they would empower infantrymen and their direct chain of command to make a decision on micro issues and things that they were actually experiencing in the field such that there was still a level of like check and balance to it so you still check through something but you weren't requiring decisions to be made where it's like well we should check with this

guy and then he may need to check with that guy and so on and so on and so on up that they ended up having the chains off and they were able to go in there and basically just completely reinvent how we did warfare at the time yeah that um that actually reminds me of uh the reason jsoc is because uh there was i was at the international joint special operations command yeah so um there was a general don't know his name I was at the International Association of Joint Special Operations Command. Got it. So there was a general, don't know his name, that gave a presentation at the International Association of Chiefs of Police in 2018. And he was talking about his time with JSOC and how they were able to go from like conducting like via communication, effective communication, kind of like what you're talking about. It went from, it might be the same guy, actually. It went from like 30, it went from like 30 missions a night to like 130. Yes, this is it. Whoever it was, I think it was McChrystal, but whoever it was, this is it. This is what it was. Dude. Yeah. That's fucking, think about that. When you empower your individual men, okay?

Now, we're talking to veterans and first responders directly, right? Because you guys get this. Like, that's what we're trying to do here at Project Refit. Like, we're trying to empower the individual groups, right? And then they feel a greater responsibility towards it, too. They feel, not even just a responsibility. Yes, for sure. For sure.

But it's also, they feel more confident that they can check in just a responsibility. Yes, for sure. For sure. But it's also they feel more confident that they can check in on their friends. Yes. Right. Like, oh, I now have a tour. This fits into my schedule because, again, going back all the way back, I was doing my independent research tables, set up different town fairs and shit all around New Jersey, South Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware. I fucking went everywhere I could. California. We flew out to California. I mean, I wanted to talk to everybody and hear everything I possibly could. Just take it all into my brain, right? Thinking Steve Jobs, where he said, the greatest artists, you know, like pick, pick, pick from

everyone. I wanted to pick from everybody's brain as much as I could. And what I ended up realizing was exactly what we're talking about, that you need to build something that can actually fit into your life and your schedule at the tap of a fucking button. Because it actually goes back to what we were talking about before, where as we get humanity, we're so good, we have so much downtime, we don't know what the fuck to do with ourselves. We got all that anxiety and anxious. Let's make life or death a thing, especially for the veteran community and first responder community, a thing that they no longer have to worry about internally and just check on each

other fast, make it simple, fast and quick. So they can out that within their own community. Fucking let's get rid of it. Let's fight it. It's going to happen. You're never going to get rid of it. You're never any organization says, let's get to zero. I's fight it it's going to happen you're never going to get rid of it you're never any organization says let's get to zero i have some really bad news for you that's almost impossible if not actually impossible you're never going because like i like you were saying before like breast cancer has like an actual tangible perfection this also does have an actual tangible you're you will have some friends that have chemical imbalances i have some friends of mine that are depressed just like they they're depressed, right? They're my boys. I check on them. I make sure of it. I almost model Project Refit after how my friends, my core

friends group, how we look out for each other. We check in on each other. You know what I meant by tangible, by the way? I think this is important just to go back. Go ahead. Yeah, man. It goes to your point of the copycat with suicide, which is a real thing. And it's not just for suicide. There's other things that it's like that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My point is you can't inject breast cancer cells into your body because you feel like you're going to get breast cancer. So, yes, there are people who get chemical imbalances and that directly causes suicide.

And that's important for you to make that distinction because it's entirely true. But you can inject the idea of suicide into your head because it's an idea strong heard yeah strong but you guys like i i want to go back for a second to like when when you started this so did you start with the app right away and was it basically you know you have the radio check-ins that you talked about but then you created the it sounds like you created the fire teams pretty much right away and was it basically you know you have the radio check-ins that you talked about but then you created the it sounds like you created the fire teams pretty much right away and like was that all through video chat or did you have in-person stuff like what was the story so there's a guy uh i can't say his name because he asked me never to say it which is fine he's actually special forces operative he actually active some other stuff um i don't know he might be out now

uh but again i'm not trying to get too many clues away anyway because i don't want people to look him up uh but he said it kind of his heart he wanted to work with us to build the first prototype and he did okay um he is the man we were in forever debt to him for that because i was able to take that prototype that he built for us and take it to people ask them how they what they thought of it right like part of the whole like uh development process actually have a new app or anything like right you have to have something built and then take it to people who would use it potentially and then have them tell you what they think okay um but there's an added element for what i was doing where it's like okay well with this whole like what do you

think of the app what are we actually solving all right so that's where that research came in whatever but this guy built that app. So we started with the app. Okay. He built it for us. Simple prototype, super bad-ass, really grateful to him. Love him forever.

Um, this is back in 2017. This was about 2017, 20, 2017, 2018. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so we do it, we get that shit done. Uh, and then as I'm talking to people and, uh and I'm out at events and stuff, I'm having some deep conversations with guys. I mean, like deep. And what kind of events were you going to? Literally town fairs and shit.

Oh, really? Like that broad? Yeah, dude. I wanted to meet them where they're at. That's one of the things Project Reefit's going to do. Interesting. And here's why. Here's a story.

One of the things project. We've it's gonna do interesting and here's why there's a story one of the most important There's a couple times We're a project we've recognized dude You're doing the right thing The first time was when a Marine came back to me the second day because it was like a three-day festival came back to me The second day young marine just got out like 22 23 hands me a pin. It was an o 311 pin, right? He goes to know 311. That's his mos so it's uh his job in the military that was his number so he comes back to me uh he's like you're a fucking marine to me bro like to me

you're a fucking marine i was like well that was a huge compliment i really appreciate that i get chills thinking about it's an honor it's fucking it's an honor right it's cool that's fucking cool that he views me as that because what i did with him the day before i actually listened to him for hours i could have been talking to hundreds of other people but i didn't i had him come i was that he views me as that. Because what I did with him the day before, I actually listened to him for hours. I could have been talking to hundreds of other people, but I didn't. I had him come. I was like, dude, come in that fucking tent and chill with me.

It's just fucking, he's like, I don't want to like, you know, I was like, fuck everybody. What did he talk about? His shit. Okay. I'm not, I'm not going to put it out. Yeah. Yeah.

His shit. Right. Talked. And then we just bullshitted. And we just hung out at this fucking fair that he was just and he was a veteran he was already out as a veteran and he was just there hanging out man like but then he but he wanted to be around either somebody who understood it and i told him i'm a civilian he knew that's why he said to me you're a marine right he knew he knew where i stood you made a sacrifice i made a sacrifice for my dreams to help you everything i did led

up to me right here with you you know i'm the only guy that's paid right now with project refit by the way very small amount right like a thousand dollars a month right now then i have to have another job on the side where i do like websites it's like photography and shit like that with people to make extra cash coming in right but i'm dedicated to this shit this is me. Right? It's your way to change the world. 100%. 100%. This is my fucking dream to help you.

Right? This is also going to show veterans that they can be leaders in their own communities for their civilian brothers and sisters. That, hey, it's okay. I was out there with fucking bullets coming at me. And I'm telling you that it's okay to feel down. We all have trauma. We all have shit. Alpha speaking you that it's okay to feel down we all have trauma we all have shit alpha speaking here it's okay right that's what i that's the way i view it right start out with a community that's viewed as strong that's feared actually sometimes i said that earlier too

like a lot of people look at them like oh that motherfucker killed yeah exactly right and i fear them well what if there's an attitude what if that dude who you fear a little bit also says to you listen i'm not gonna fucking kill you i also struggle i actually didn't even want to be just a straight up killer right yeah there's some fucking crazy people in the military who do that shit and they do it well and it's good that they have the outlet whatever but at the same time it's crazy everywhere okay have the outlet, whatever. But at the same time, it's crazy everywhere. Okay? I went in because I wanted to serve my country in one way or the other. And now I'm serving by being here telling you,

it's okay, I'll listen to you. You're building, by and large, and it's not the only focus because you'll talk about the other stuff too, but by and large, the key spot is getting people to buy into the app and the community online to be able to get it at the push of a button, to your point. But you are building that through basically brick and

mortar old school tactics of going to where it hits home, going to the people themselves. Yeah. So you're almost right. Almost. That's close. Hybrid. Hybrid. Okay. Online and in person. This is what I reckon. That's why it's so important we got back to the fair because I wasn't able to go over this yet. Because are you're right you're right you're right but you're

you're like missing a piece and it's my it's my it's me like i didn't get to that point yet so now to fill in the rest i recognize one day when i was out i i was out there and i was talking to people and i just got done talking to uh i think it was a family member actually and i hit dan up and i was like dan dude if we want this thing to succeed we're gonna have to have like some kind of like in-person thing and i was like i was at i was at uh it's called fringe festival actually it's in hamilton new jersey and actually it happens all over the country but this one was in hamilton new jersey i was at i'm on the phone with him and i was like we gotta have something and like we're talking about

whatever hung up and i looked up and had someone else come by, talk to me, and I had this conversation. Like, yeah, we're also gonna do an in-person thing, blah, blah, blah. And I look over, and there's a mobile bar right over there, like in a big truck and trailer. And I was like, a lounge like that. And I pointed. And a woman turned around, she turned around,

and I was like, wow, that's really cool. That's exactly what we're gonna do for for the in-person because it's mobile. We can show up to you at your cardboard box, your house, your apartment. We can bring the technology with us. We can do our radio checks in person with you and bring you into this community where you're now going to be in the app all the time, touching projects, refit, touching these other nonprofits all the time. You're going to be in the app all the time, touching Project Refit, touching these other nonprofits all the time. You're going to have support anywhere.

Anywhere. And that mobile base brings it. The mobile base brings it to you. We're going to be able to go to sports venues, concerts, because a lot of these guys, a lot of the issues actually, and another reason why I came up with the idea is because I used to work security concerts. It used to be called the tweeter

center uh it's bb and t now here in new jersey whatever bro aging me i'm 30 what's up so um i worked there and i never forget i don't know what this guy i don't know what was wrong with this guy before i say anything i don't know what was wrong with him i don't know what happened but i didn't remember taking this guy who like basically froze up he was sweating like motherfucking crazy his friends were like dude like i don't know what's going on but he's got to get out of here and i was like right so we just escorted this guy out and put him in a concrete fucking room and it was right around that it was like 2008 2009 so it's right when a lot of guys were getting out you know like they were in war it could have been a veteran i don't know it could have been a first

it could have been just a dude that went through some traumatic shit and was like i have no idea but a lot of veterans okay they don't like veterans and first responders don't like to go back on the society again like they don't like to enjoy they actually asked this question on one of our radio checks resounding yes to i don't want to go around a big group of people anymore because i don't trust them because they know what monsters are dude like you oh man i try to i try to say that with like also empathy too because like i want civilians understand like the greek tragedy it's real okay not everything works out not everybody's good there's people out there there is a lot of fucking bad.

There's a lot. But there's more good. That's a positive thing. But there's a lot of fucking bad, man. There's 7 billion people on this planet. Even if 10% of that 7 billion. It's a problem. Holy shit, that's a lot.

Millions. Millions of bad. That's a lot. And see, that's another thing though that's another thing you see this problem all the time with veterans who come back who know what bad is they have been to the doorstep of bad they have looked it in the eyes they understand it and they come back to a country like ours which is the freest in the world has its problems has its things that always need to be improved. And they see people, whether it be complaining about small shit or things that don't matter or faulting America for stuff that they shouldn't be faulting them for. This is the worst one to veterans in a lot of ways, at least some of the guys I know very well.

They see the world in a way that they want to see it and not how it actually is and it is very very difficult in my experience talking with some of my guys and i'd like to get your thoughts on it it is very very difficult for a veteran to be able to process that other people don't know what reality is and yet you can't just tell them because they haven't seen what veterans have they haven't done what veterans have had to because they haven't seen what veterans have they haven't done what veterans have had to do they haven't had that experience where they again they come to the doorstep with that evil and they know what it looks like yeah we've talked about that actually even on our um our radio checks a lot and the thing that we always come down to and we always say is that's actually one of those

thoughts that could almost be negative for a veteran to go down because you shouldn't be thinking about what the social anxiety is right and like what the next thing is or whatever you just got to focus on the little shit in life we had a guy dude oh my god and i'll and i'll get back to the um the the veterans in the trust because this is all part of it but i'll get back to the thing in a bit but there was a a guy that came on one of our radio checks and he was battle-hardened this fucking dude battle-hardened even hearing him talk we thought this guy might have gone like way off the rails, but he ended up becoming this fucking

deep philosopher. A lot of veterans, they understand life. This guy literally said, I stopped worrying about what the fuck everybody was saying a long time ago, and man, I've been in peace. I enjoy flowers. I enjoy the sunset. I enjoy the sunrise. I enjoy fucking

grass, bro. And I was like, that's awesome. Like, that was so cool to hear that. Like, and it, because it's real. He stopped worrying about what people were focused on. Because he knows that it's not healthy to focus on that. Whether he actually got the therapy or not, which I'm pretty sure he did go to therapy, but he genuinely believes in nothing but the small things because he's seen what's actually bad. So there's a, there's actually, um, I think a chance most veterans and first

responders, I really want to drive home that first responders see the worst of the worst here on this free soil. That's why a lot of veterans have nothing but respect especially for like cops and firefighters or like see charred bodies or murder or or rape or all these terrible things that happen in this country because it happens everywhere when did you add in the first responders to your entire umbrella that was pretty much in uh 18 that was okay very shortly after like that was very much early evolution super early on yeah so all of them see you know what life is and that's when you have this great opportunity though to appreciate like i said all did i say it on here the dolphins thing did we say that during this okay like remember the dolphins they made the right choice to stay in the water they have the chance to be the dolphin right to simple fucking flowers

i'm gonna go garden i'm gonna i'm gonna go cut the grass i'm gonna enjoy the fact that i'm alive cutting the grass they're accepting right you're saying they're accepting the fact that people don't know what they don't know they're accepting that just accept it just accept society's fucking weird but at the same time it can be beautiful because you'll have time to enjoy those small things yeah right so um i think that that's like a point of the mindfulness so there's this uh great organization veterans path john mackeskill he's a navy seal former navy seal commander he runs that um we were talking on the phone man he helped me out with actually doing a project of a grateful

challenge uh really cool thing i'm actually trying to bring it from linkedin over to other social media platforms and make it blow up somehow uh because on so on linkedin it's like it's going viral like it's it's everywhere like 500 000 plus people like you know fucking seeing it participate in it otherwise it's insane so um but it's all about mindfulness right being grateful every day you're changing your brain so we're trying to basically so it's all about mindfulness, right? Being grateful every day. You're changing your brain. So we're trying to basically, so it's an awareness with action. Action is important. By creating the grateful challenge, the thought process behind it is it takes about two weeks

up to 18 days to create a new habit. 18 days to like, I think it's like two months or something like that or three months. It takes between two weeks and two months or a little longer to create a habit. Okay. So the project of a grateful challenge for 20 plus days, you are supposed to post a video or status every day of something you're grateful for. Just one thing that you're grateful for, to train your mind, to be grateful for life, for the little things, right? Grateful for my family. I'm grateful for this podcast today. I'm grateful for technology. I'm grateful for the clothes that are on my back. I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for my dog. I'm grateful. I'm happy. Creating a habit

of being grateful. Mindfulness, right? So that's what John Mackeskill loved about it. He's like, dude, fuck yeah, let's go. He's a killer, bro's he's a killer bro he's a killer he's fucking he's real deal he's a savage but he's also at the same time humble loves people loves his men right wants to help him he needed help himself he still needs help he's very open about he's like i need the help i need the help too i need mindfulness right for sure he needs. He's back in society where it's not as bad as warfare. Sure, shit can go down, but it's also time to decompress and relax. Teach yourself.

Everything's okay, right? So that's why it's like, everything's fine. We're okay. As soon as like veterans begin to recognize that they have a chance, they have a chance at the ultimate peace where they understand violence. They understand it very well. Okay. But, and they also, they played in it. They were fucking in it. Their, their, their, their field, their football field was war.

Okay. They understand it. But at the same time, they also can take it to the next extreme and be super mindful, be a warrior monk almost, right? And just like, you know, you understand peace too. You know what war is, you never want to go back to it. You just want peace, which brings me all the way back to the point where we're at these events. We're trying to get guys back out to go enjoy things in society again, around a bunch of people that they don't know and that they might not trust, but bring them to a community or to a spot around these mobile bases. Let's say at a concert, because I love music, metal all day.

I love metal and rock. And go to these concerts and or, well, in this case, concerts only. And give them a place, almost like the dads that go to the mall with their wife and their kids and they sit on the couches out in the mall and they're chilling talking to other dads shooting the shit i want to give them that place away from the stores and all the hectic bullshit choices that are going on there and just let them hang out on the side and be together with other veterans and first responders and family members right these mobile bases that we want to truck and trailers we also want to build truck and trailers that'll actually go directly to a husband or husband or wife's house of a spouse

that is deployed and give them the mobile base to talk to their loved one that's deployed and we'll watch the kids so they can have a conversation with them right we want to have 110 years i want to have 150 mobile bases all around the country operating with veteran retired veterans or retired first responders and or veterans 150 so we have uh we want to have retired first responders and veterans that are hired that operate these things and their number one mission is to have a purpose go help out your brothers and sisters do whatever you got to do operate like general van ripper take the idea of the app and put it into person. Hybrid. Hybrid strategy. That's the hybrid. We're built for COVID, by the way. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because when COVID hit, you saw a lot of different businesses sprout up and a lot of different

opportunities present themselves with this quote-unquote new world where everyone is disconnected and you know everything is remote disconnected connected right right right right exactly and what i loved about this is that when i first heard about it my first thought was that oh they must have made this up in like march or april or something and just hopped on the train and so you know you get a little skeptical when you think that and then i saw that you guys have been doing this since 2017 and this this was not new and I thought it was incredible that and obviously not good at all but the COVID happened foresight homie right and you guys were it's like yeah like we're built for this

this is what we do and I think it goes beyond this, though. Here's the key. The mission is combat isolation. Yes, yes. But what is your mission? It's to combat isolation with veterans and first responders. And that's what you're going to do. And that's your focus.

And you've made it clear. That's the sandbox you want to stay in because you're building that exact type of community but you've also talked about how you've had them you've invited in civilians and stuff when when they just want the help or whatever and what you it is more proof that what you guys are doing is something that other organizations can take up for people as well because forget the fact that people lost their businesses and their jobs with this forget the fact that they got disconnected from the family members, from their friends, and the world is, in this country at least, tore apart. Not just with polarization and opinions. I'm saying literally. You put people in little circles. You put them in their homes. You put them away from society. The amount of mental struggle and pain and the wrong type of tattoo on people's brains that that has created has built a society

that was already feeling isolated by the lack of connectivity that the connective platform social media is supposed to give them because it makes them feel bad about themselves all the time. But it created a society where all these people now are literally isolated and they're literally creating more time for them to think about shit in their heads and go deeper and deeper and deeper into these holes and not know who the fuck to talk about it with and so for you guys to do this with veterans and first responders but then set the example with it with something that was already created before this for people who aren't like that for civilians for people who are like hey i need to feel connected to the world too you're creating

opportunities for this to become a movement. That's right. I love that you just said movement because Raul Herrera, who runs Backyard Sports Podcast, right, all about sports. He's a Navy veteran. Created a video for us, actually, where he's so passionate about what we're doing.

He's like, you guys are creating a fucking movement. And he put it out. He's like, this has been an issue since 1776. Here's what he said. 1776 like this has been an issue since 1776 here's what he said 1776 this has been an issue since that time we aren't talking about it we're not talking about our our issues we're not talking about shit we're afraid of it and project refit is

kicking down your fucking door and here we are yeah here we are you can still be tough as shit and talk about your shit okay you can be tough as all balls and nails and all that bullshit, right? You gotta be, but you also have to talk about it, man. Like you gotta trust the people that you're around. We're trying to build that community of trust, trying to bring it back, you know? So isolation is a killer. It's a killer. It's a silent killer, actually. And isolation is promoted as society begins to grow, grow, grow, grow. Remember what we were talking about before about that? It's the opposite evolution.

That's right. Humans need a mission and a purpose. When we're younger generation or whatever, older generations, I should say, they would have to have the farm. They'd go hunting, gathering, all that shit. Constant threats everywhere. Modern society society there's not as much it's the hardest so like what's the hardest thing for a man to do man or woman you gotta let me know i don't just sit in a room alone with their thoughts and be okay yeah that is very difficult for sure That's got to be the most difficult. For sure. And it's creating this incredible social anxiety.

Yeah. Incredible social anxiety. Right? And it's weaving its way throughout society. And weaving its way throughout people, I should say. And there needs to be trust built back up. Number one thing. Trust.

We need that. What do you mean by that? We need to begin to trust each other, even within your friends groups, to talk about about the shit that you're going to be validated like yeah yeah yeah i feel that way too and not be like oh you're being a bitch you know like like in saying it negatively instead of being instead there is i think there could be a positive way of saying that actually it's like hey man i get it like you're feeling like a bitch today yeah i get it like you know what i mean like it's like i get that but you're still strong bro like. Like you still got this, like everything's going to be okay. There's hope. That's the other thing. Hope is needed so badly. Hope is needed. Future,

something to look forward to in the future, right? That's a part of the missions and all that stuff. And that's something that we really want to bring to like even these mobile bases, you know, I want to be able to like get these people together have them talking networking together veterans first responders and everything have them talking and helping each other again you know i mean like their mission can be to continuously do better so they can help facilitate better connections for their brothers and their sisters when they get out you know there are so many opportunities that exist for veterans and first responders so many are there any mostly for veterans there's a that exist for veterans and first responders. So many. Are there any? Mostly for veterans.

There's a lot more for veterans and first responders. But is there anyone really doing what you're doing specifically within this community? I really, look. The approach that we're doing? I don't think so. Well, let me qualify that. I know there's, and you've pointed them out, there's organizations that provide support and support groups.

And there's even online organizations that provide communities and all that what you guys are doing though with your focus on the hybrid model which i love how you're putting that where you are going to the people where they are and you are also allowing them to come to you and to come to everyone where where they are which is on the internet yeah at all times and creating and fostering that communicative community. Is there anyone? Social media with a purpose. Yes.

Is there anyone who's really actually doing that? I haven't heard of that. Me either. Nobody. No, it's social media with a purpose, man. You can come in, you can shoot the shit on this app. You can like talk practically at blue skies. You can literally just make jokes.

That's something else, by the way, it's one of the rules in the buddy check in check, buddy check, radio check, buddy check in. Again, radio check, buddy check in. I know I just like fucking stumbled over my words. One of the rules that we have is kind of the rules and then buddy check in check uh buddy check radio check buddy check in again radio check buddy check in i know i just like fucking stumbled over my words one of the rules that we have is kind of a joke um if you're not funny you don't make jokes right so like if you're not funny shut the fuck up you know like no but but in all seriousness like we want people because the veteran community they use humor a lot to like you know cope yes right like it fucking yeah it makes sense why we do that we want them to do that come on in make your jokes man like have fun you know you give them a place of trust you keep talking about like you've hit on on a million times

purpose and not just for veterans but for like all of us people and yeah it's a common theme but a few minutes ago too because i can't get this out of my head. You said something about the fact that veterans have seen war and they don't ever want to go back and things like that. And in theory, symbolically, yes, I think a lot of them would say that. who signed up because of the patriotic duty and wanting to fight for their country and everything, they may not be able to admit it to themselves even. Maybe it's just subconscious, but there is a part of them that's always looking for that battle. That is their purpose. When they're not on the ground in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever the fuck they may be, or if they're not even like on their base somewhere getting ready to roll, it's like, what am I doing?

Why am I here? Why am I not being able to do what I'm supposed to do which is to literally be on behalf of the tribe the tribe being this country the hunter or the protector whatever whatever you need to be in that moment that is why they do this type of thing so do you when when you're working within these communities because now you've worked with thousands of these guys you talk with all different people from all different ages and all different types of experiences ptsd no p no ptsd whatever do you feel like a lot of these guys are are they come back here and they don't feel that fulfillment because they don't have that fight no matter what it is they sink their teeth into in regular society as a civilian they don't have that purpose because they don't have that fight they live for that um i think that there's some guys maybe but man most of the guys that i talk to

they genuinely don't want it really yeah man like it's gonna be a crazy analogy i'm about to make but i think it's a right one and i'm not minimizing this thing that happens to people but that's do it it's all right i'm gonna come up with another one that one's too hardcore that one might that one might be a little bit too uh all right do it do it seriously so if you if you get stabbed okay i'm not gonna say what i was gonna say the other thing i'm not because it's too deep but if you get stabbed do you think you want to get stabbed again no okay so if you lost one of your best friends would you want to live through that again? No. And you saw his body parts everywhere. No.

Do you understand? I want you to really think about that. We can sit and silence him for a little bit. I really want you to think about that. I'm not even joking. Anybody that's listening to, think about that. Because I get where you're coming from. Like that combat.

Like I get that. But a lot of these guys don't want that for anyone there's some things that happen to me i would never wish upon my my worst enemy and it's not even close to that right not trying to compare it but like dude we're talking life and death literally i'm not and you know what i mean clear. Yeah. Because I am picturing that. Yeah, yeah. And no one in the sanity of their mind ever...

Like, if you experience that where you're holding your dead friend in your arms, no one wants to experience that. For sure. That's one of the ultimate levels of trauma there is. Here's where I can answer. Do they want purpose to help others? Yes. That's my point. Yes.

Hold on. Because I want to stick with the example you gave. I love that you used that. Yeah. In that scenario, they don't want to go back to that moment. If they can help it, they never want to experience that again. They don't want anyone. And they don't want to have the possibility of going on to the front lines with their friends and knowing like hey either me or one of

them you know we're going to experience that by one of us being dead in the other person's arms they don't want to experience that oh oh real quick at the backtrack some guys do love the firefight some guys do some guys do want to get back and they do want to fight and they fucking love it because they're good at it right they do that's a purpose a little bit a touch of it maybe but i think it's the i think it's the it's so real it's real right some guys the adrenaline all that shit that's why i see some veterans they get out they go skydiving they're fucking going 120 miles an hour with a fucking you know crash rocket dude like all that shit that's why i see some of them doing that kind of stuff um but But I think that there are – you have a certain part of the population that loves the war, the fight.

They love that fight. I think that – I've heard that before definitely. And they respect the men next to them doing it. And in fact, some of them even respect their enemy more than even respect some of the civilians back home what do you mean by that they're they're out there fighting i heard one guy came into our a couple of them actually said this but there was one guy in particular that said this is stuck in my head he's like you know those dudes like like some of the taliban and shit like they're fighting like what the fuck would you do if you had somebody coming to america ask me that i was like i'd fight

they're like right dude like that's what they're doing do they ever do they ever they're fighting us do they ever keep in the equation though what what they're fighting for in that case of course yeah but the thing is dude uh just like ufc fighters ufc fighters respect ufc fighters. And they don't like the man in the arena. Yeah. Okay, I think it was Theodore Roosevelt said it out. The man in the arena, right? It's a great quote.

So you respect the man that's in the arena. And it goes back to what we were talking about very early on in this with the people on the outside, the social anxiety, not letting it come in. They're not listening to the outside world. They know who they're fighting against. They actually kind of sometimes even respect that guy that they're fighting against because they're willing to fucking shoot at them their bullets can change history imagine that kind of power and a young guy right where you you have such a job with such important purpose you're in the army you're in the navy whatever it may be you know you're fucking

you're an infantryman your bullet literally every time you fire one bullet it's history changing yes and that's and that's what i want to ask about because no one in their sane mind wants to ever go back to the possibility even of seeing of holding their dead friend in their arms or or you know the shoe being on the other foot with them being dead no one wants to do that but the purpose of the fact that they are fighting what they perceive and believe to be an enemy that wants to inflict evil on the world and they are the beacon of shining light as america representing their country no higher calling to fight back against that and allow light to win the day and And so when I say that... Freedom.

Yes, freedom. Exactly. When I say that people don't want to go back to that, or when you say that, I agree with that entirely. But I'm saying that battle, that fight, that central part of the purpose, it may supersede everything, including the very, very bad visceral shit that comes with it. And so when these people, when these veterans are talking about that, I wonder sometimes if even if they're really struggling with some of those experiences they had, and we talked about it before the podcast. I know some guys who to this day, could be 30 years later, 40 years later, they still go back to that moment and they can't talk about it.

You can't bring it up with them. It's a real thing. But even if they struggle with that, there is a part of them that knows like hey my calling is to go take that risk again take the risk that it's going to be me or take the risk that i'm gonna have to experience that again because what we're fighting for is that important that's what i want to know do these guys who even struggle with that some not have the purpose okay some of them for sure and that's why it goes back to it where it's like you know you have your bullet can change history it's a lot of responsibility right um and it is a major calling and it is a mate not even just calling but it's also a major responsibility just go that's the word that's the word just responsibility and when you get out and even though you're being told your day's being scheduled and shit the purpose of what you were fighting which is why

also i think a lot of guys struggle with it, that heavy weight where every person you interact with out in the world, every civilian you interact with, where it can be a trigger movement. You can be triggered by the anger, even though you're suppressing it, like I motherfucker didn't hold the door for me, I was willing to die for you, my friend died, it could spiral. Yeah.

It could take them out, right? Like, that's why I think we need to be understanding of where they're coming from, understanding of what they went through. And I don't think we do that enough, right? And I don't think society does that enough for them, right? I don't. I don't think we hear each other. I don't even think veterans hear civilians out enough, actually, right?

I think there needs to be a bridge. We need to bridge that communication as a society to help heal. Well, you talked about the ones that effectively, and you didn you didn't in fairness to you you didn't say they did that but you did highlight that there are there are some guys who have the ability to not sweat the small stuff as i think as you put it like they focus on the the beauty in life and and they can kind of see that and that helps because they went through it already yes yes they went through the hang the anger and the hate and they went and got therapy and they got the help okay and they can kind of see that and that helps because they went through it already yes yes they went through the hang the anger and the hate and they went and got therapy and they got the help okay and they were able to recognize it you know what i mean like so they did come back and

they viewed it wrong a lot of them a lot of people okay of course of course man i mean look it's like a woman who her body is not hers anymore in a situation of rape okay or a man men i think it's one in five men one in four women raped right yeah so um or child child sexual abuse or something something terrible regarding sex and think think about that right so your body is no longer yours in that moment kind of deal and how could you not view it's in the case of the woman how could you not view all men as a threat all of them how could you not and a man who is with a woman who has that ptsd and she can't always have sex because she's her sexual drive is not broken because she didn't have dude like there's so it goes so deep man like it's yeah and like that guy has to be super has to be a special

man to be understanding to be like i'm you're right i'm sorry like we don't have to do this right now i can see it's like bothering it's fine super special because she will not be probably as sexually active some of them are not as sexually active people go through that men as well are not as sexually active because it's no longer that sometimes they feel like it's no longer their body yeah can you imagine if you're in war and you feel like you don't have control of your life because the bullets coming we can't even see the bullets you have no control over your life or death scenario at that point there are some legit fucking horror stories that i've heard right and and i i don't want to say it's an honor

okay that i was a guy that they confided in at all um but i treat it as such only because it's an honor. Okay. That I was a guy that they confided in at all. Um, but I treat it as such only because it's like, I'm not gonna, I won't judge you for how you feel. I'm not gonna, dude, fucking cry. Come on, man. Like let it out. And they do fucking finally let it out. Right? Like go write or something. Go, go fucking start a podcast on it. Go talk to your brother, call your friends up, talk to them, man. Like talk to your brother. Call your friends up. Talk to them, man. Like the purpose is to look out for each other. You didn't lose the tribe.

Just because you're out of the military doesn't mean anything. Just because you're not a first responder anymore doesn't mean anything. You can still be a part of it. And we're trying to give them instant access to it through the app to bring it all the way back. We're trying to give them instant access back to that community again. I want, again, I want nonprofits. Again, I'll give the example of a Reverend Warrior. I hope to one day partner with an organization like that where they can promote their own events on our shit. I want them to. I want the community to be talking and to be going outside again,

because it's actually one step closer to bridging the gap between society and veterans. As soon as you can get the veterans jobs again, because jobs are now understanding that, oh, they're just, they're a bunch of, it's a community of, especially combat veterans, a community of traumatized people. They're good. They're still good. And they will still listen and they will still do work, but they're going to struggle sometimes. And I, it's a responsibility that I do understand trauma, not just a responsibility to the veteran because it's a veteran, but to the person that went through trauma, including employees, maybe of a female who was raped and a male counterpart just scared her for a second.

He needs to understand, dude. Oh, I understand why you went through that. Now. I'm S I'm sorry. I didn't like, I just want to say nice dress or something. I didn't mean anything. You don't know, man. People just, you got to stop. The judgment is so annoying to me. It's a gripe I have actually with society. And it goes all the way back actually to, I guess, how and why it was just pushed onto me of like the anxiety. Anxiety is, it's a lie. Your anxiety is lying to you. We actually have a sweatshirt that says on the back your anxiety lies like it's lying to you you're it's lying to you you can live a happy life most is good not everything's bad enjoy the small shit you're a guy who who leads right out front to these guys that you're the civilian co-founder here.

Fuck yeah, dude, 100%. And they all gravitate to you and they see your passion. In some of the more extreme cases, someone even calls you a Marine just for being that guy who truly cares. But to me, there's something that comes across about your mission here, not just in how affirmatively you say it. I mean, you can't even wait to get to the next point all day today. I love it. Like, normally, if I'm on a podcast and someone's ripping away, it's like it means we're going off tracks or whatever. But you just have – there's this fire in your eyes, and I hope people can see it on video, even below the hat and everything that just it every angle of this this

is all you think about this is all you do and that comes obsessive compulsive disorder maybe maybe maybe but that comes across like i'm not a veteran and i feel it you know and i can only imagine when they see that and they go this this dude this dude's here to help us and then when i look at your own story you you talked you said someone earlier always talks about like scratching the itch. That's what you do because you're the guy who had the problem with anxiety because of other people's anxiety being projected on you. You're the guy who recognized something like, hey, I want to do something that changes shit. I want to do something that changes the world. And you're the guy that was able to kind of put that all together and say, hey, some of my own flaws and some of my own things that have gotten me to places or gotten me to go after things that I didn't want to do or gotten me off tracks in my own life. It's because of what happened to me.

And now I can go help people who are literally there because they made the ultimate sacrifice and the things that happened to them and first responders too it's because of the choice they made what what happened to them made them who they are and made them have these flaws and made them have these things that that that maybe they they can't always deal with that fire going on in their mind at all times and someone like you even if you're not a veteran there's a way that you can respond yes there is a way that you can actually understand that because of your own experiences and still be able to get across them that like hey even if i'm not you i get you can i draw an important analogy too for first responders right now yes here we go this is really important they're people okay and so trauma is trauma we've said that a few times during this podcast police officers are shit on.

A lot. Yeah, they are. All the fucking time. Okay? Now, are all of them perfect? Nope. We already said this. Not every veteran's perfect.

Not every fucking nurse is perfect. Doctor. Right? Not everybody's perfect. By the way, could you imagine if we treated doctors with the rhetoric that we treat cops? Do you know how many more? Actually, I don't want to pull that out of my ass. You can go pull up some numbers. I don't have them right now.

But think of all the malpractice suits. And some of them are bullshit. But think about that for doctors who train for years and years and years too. Now probably compare that number to bad cops who do a bad thing. Can I help you with that analogy? Yeah.

And then I'll bring it back to the cop thing, but with doctors in malpractice, doctors that communicate really well with their patients and their patients feel like they're being heard, even, and the family feels like everything's being heard, even if that doctor does fuck up, they're less likely to sue that doctor because they like him or her.

Bedside fucking manner. Yep. Huge huge really important anyway so so here's something too like not just bedside manner let's talk about uh uh door side manner okay so door side manner meaning you pull over a police so the most dangerous interaction that a police officer has is when they pull over a a civilian or whatever right pull over a car right most date that's the most dangerous few reasons why you don't know who the fuck is in is when they pull over a civilian or whatever, right? Pull over a car, right? That's the most dangerous. Few reasons why.

You don't know who the fuck is in the car and you don't know if you're going to get hit by a car on the side of the road. Very stressful situation, right? So they walk up to the car, whatever. There needs to be better door side manner on the civilians part almost always, actually. Because they forget they're dealing with a human, right? That's right there.

The dude's just doing his job. Yeah. Is it always to your benefit? Fuck no, because you probably fucked up, right? In some way broke the law. Are all laws great and good? No. So go affect change, right?

That's the point of the country. People forget the point of this country is for you to take control of your life. And if you don't like something, go change it. It's about hard work. Actually, this country is for you to take control of your life and if you don't like something go change it it's about hard work actually this country's made to create hard men it's meant to do that yeah we're supposed to be tough and by men i mean women too it's supposed to create hard situations you don't like what you don't like fucking go change it do the work yeah come on now anyway so coming back to it like there are people too they go through through shit. First responders, police officers specifically see a lot of stuff. Guess who else sees a lot of shit and they can get it?

People that are in the ghetto see a lot of shit. There's actually a lot of organizations now that are popping up that are bridging the gap between combat veterans and young kids that are in the ghetto. To actually bring them together and talk. Because they have similar brainwaves. I remember reading it somewhere, similar brainwaves between rape victims, combat victims, and kids that grew up in trauma,

like amongst trauma and like violent situations. Very similar how they think. Okay? So if we bring these together, these people together, right? There's going to be an effect in change because most people dealt with shit, especially in a scenario of like, like if you were in a war-like scenario as a kid in america in the

united states of america if you see that kind of stuff and then you're talking shit on the guys that are actually trying to protect these kids in the ghettos and shit you're actually causing a lot of stress that these guys are trying to help these kids trying to protect these kids go to school yeah right so like it's it's a violent cycle that they're now getting infected by and nobody wants to listen to the police officer because the police officer is silenced by everyone they don't give a shit they're like you have all the power it's a power it's a power structure it's like it's like wait a second i actually have i have interpretation here i can interpret i can actually like just interact with me better.

Treat me like a per, if I have to give you a ticket, I'm giving you a ticket. Like it's just, it's also coming up to responsibility of the everyday person. They push their blame off to so many other people instead of owning their shit. Yeah.

There's so many issues like that. And we also look, there are, there are patterns where you have certain areas or certain neighborhoods that are neighborhoods that happen to be systemized and set up in the wrong way so that cops can mistreat them. And then some bad cops are in there and some bad cops do it. And that's the thing. Yeah, there is bad police officers as well who are in there taking advantage of the system. They're corrupt and there's bad shit happening.

We need more. We actually need more therapists and i i agree with a liberal view of we need more um uh social workers social workers who can help alongside the officers and shit but that means we need more funding to go towards i'm not trying to get into that shit i'm not but like we need to help trainees officers right we need these guys are being they're constantly being attacked right and if you look at, the military is so well-funded. They're war-ready all the time. They're war-ready.

They're battle-ready. Yeah, you can't have it both ways. That's a good point. We need to start funding more so that the officers are better trained, better training, so they can communicate better with people. Because a lot of these guys don't have the training to communicate effectively, where a lot of the breakdown happens. A door-side manner matters. the door side manner matters door side manner matters 100 and like i think about that a lot man if doctors can do it successfully they have great bedside manner why aren't we doing

similar things with police officers most people only want to be cops anymore because it's so difficult the job's so difficult yeah so hard they're putting their lives on the line every fucking day they might not be dying as much as a fisherman who goes out in deep sea hard they're putting their lives on the line every fucking day they might not be dying as much as a fisherman who goes out in deep sea but they're putting their lives in a line with with people like oh it's not as dangerous as fishermen like shut the fuck up it's really dangerous actually their mental health too like think about it you're getting chipped away at every day you put on that vest chip chip chip chip chip right so why aren't we bringing that like to the forefront of like why aren't we training them more why aren't we getting them street ready why don't we get him

doorside ready right because you have the military who are war ready they have to be training constantly right constantly so why aren't we trying to when you understand violence and you like trainees even in jiu-jitsu like training officers in jujitsu and such, you're training these guys a lot. If you understand violence and how to actually fight, you know how to control the violence. My professor said, he's a Marine, he's a veteran, he's a Marine. He said, learn how to control the violence, right? If you learn how to control the violence, not only can you control it within yourself, you can control it with the other person coming out. You know how to control their body and move their body, calm them down without hurting them. Right?

People are like, oh, but they're killing people in the street. Come on, man. If you train them on how to actually effectively control the violence, maybe people wouldn't be dying. They wouldn't be dying. They wouldn't be dying. Yeah. And that's why also police officers, firefighters, EMTs, they need the backup to correctional officers. They need the backup and people that get them are each other for sure. But also veterans, they get it. Active duty military, they get it. They understand that side of life, that life or death scenario.

So that's why the community, the tribe that we're trying to build onto here and go and support directly show them that they're not alone it's huge it's huge so how do people go and help project refit what what's been your number one source of of funding and and and donations right now it's been private uh small donations people come in they throw uh project refit.us go and donate through there or they start facebook fundraisers uh facebook fundraisers huge. We're actually going to start a thing where we're going to give you a shirt. If you start a Facebook fundraiser, we're going to start doing stuff like that. That's cool. You know, and we also have an idea to fund the mobile bases. So the mobile bases are going to be huge, especially for revenue for coming into this nonprofit so uh we want to get name plates of our donors 25 or more

name plates put inside of the mobile bases all over the walls it's going to be like a 26 foot trailer so it's all like we could have you know 10 000 fucking name plates in there and it covers all the wall that'd be great right and like those people would get their recognition almost like a, um, when you, when you, when you see those, those benches that have a name on it, you know what I mean? Kind of like that. Like you helped build this, you were a part of the change. Um, and you know, we're, we're looking to do, do that. Uh, get you your name on our website, like get your names on the app actually in like

certain direct sections. Like we're going to add a page where I have all the donors we donors we're helping out um you can purchase our gear go to our website again project refit.us um go to the shop section you can click on the bonfire store you can purchase a hat like this one right here um you know this this shirt the one that's sitting here and the one that i'm wearing it's the ruck shirt uh we're actually going to be putting those up too soon we have some leftovers we're going to sell those off like 25 um and yeah so that's that's it man that's that's ways that they can support us right now and if you are a part of a big company or you have someone you know that's a decision maker like a ceo executive director or whatever of a company um that does a

lot of oha or out of home advertising um please contact or if you know that just do a lot of advertising general please put us in touch with them know that they just do a lot of advertising in general, please put us in touch with them. You know, let us talk to them. And what's, what's the next step in the goals of the organization here? Cause obviously you guys are big now,

but what's getting bigger, getting bigger. That's simple. Yeah. We're trying to grow the community. We're getting, we're not big, we're getting bigger.

You know what I mean? Like we were reaching, we reached like 32 million people in, in 2019. We're hoping that our numbers are about the same that was crazy we blew up i was like oh shit that's when i actually realized like we're resonating like this is working that's that's what that's what social media you're talking about yeah social media and website uh yeah we reached 32 million people um and this year, you know, hopefully we're doing the same numbers. Obviously, I'll know in January.

January 28th, I'll know, actually, of 2021. But that's when, like, the reports come out and all that shit for your year. But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get the mobile bases funded so that we can give people a tangible thing to see. So that they can be a part of it and they can see us doing our work in person right so they because people see oh you have an app what does that actually do exactly it's like what does it do i'll tell you what it does it gives guys hope it gives it gives the individuals the chance to help each other right yeah but also like because people there and this is fine you know touch see feel kind of thing right? You're touching, you'll be able to interact with us. You'll be able to meet us and see us.

We'll be out in the community kind of thing, right? I think that the mobile base is key. It's huge. So we achieved our goals. So what we achieved so far, we achieved launching the app. It was huge. We got Drexel University helped us build that actually. So we got Drexel University, launched it out.

And now it's launching the mobile base. And we did the radio check, the radio check, buddy check-ins. That was actually out of necessity that we did that. Because we recognize, oh, we got to do something now. And you guys do that live on social media three times a week. Monday and Friday's live on social media. And then Wednesdays are private just for veterans and first responders. Got it. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So they can come into are private just for veterans and first responders. Got it.

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So they can come into Zoom and just chill, hang out, shoot the shit and like make really inappropriate jokes. And then Mondays and Fridays, you know, we simmer it a little bit, but we're open and we try to have conversation around things, right? It's almost like a, it's like a show.

It's like a podcast. Yeah. It's not a podcast. But we are like, I'll give you a great example that radio truck buddy check in um we had a guy uh who came in it was a police officer referred this marine to us he came in and he and he just like let everything out he's he's angry a police officer like look you didn't he's called there for a domestic he's like you didn't do anything yet don't do anything check out this non-. Go fucking sign on, message our page,

whatever. They're fucking live right now. Go talk to them. Just go hang out with some of your boys. The guy's like, all right, fuck it. Came in,

talked to us, got a lot of shit off his chest. And he has a job now. He's in therapy. He's like all this shit. There's so many stories like that. It's fucking amazing actually to say it. Another guy that called my personal Facebook page told me that I saved his life, actually.

He's like, you, James, you fucking saved my life. You gave my life meaning and purpose again. I was on the phone, and I was like, cool, yeah, man, no problem. And I was like, what the fuck? And I started crying, dude. I cried for like a half hour. I couldn't hold it back because all the sacrifice that I've made to get to that point say that one fucker's life it's cool as shit it's giving you that validation fuck yeah but it's also giving me the test i've been i'm being put through the gauntlet constantly and i

welcome that shit dude like and now more than ever i just welcome it like give me a challenge the fuck people like dude why do you make it difficult? I'm not making it difficult. It is difficult. And I'm just not afraid to just go for it. Because who fucking cares? You're supposed to do that. We're humans, man. Like, that's how innovation comes.

You got me, dude. Well, James. Just saying. Thank you for coming in, my man. I hope all you out there heard what I heard today, which is just absolute flames, a flamethrower sitting across from me. And I will tell you,

you are where you're supposed to be, my man. So Project Refit, they can get you online. Is it projectrefit.com? Literally? .us. Okay. And you can also Google it, Project Refit, exactly what it sounds like.

And shirts are pretty cool too. Thanks, bro. This logo. That's actually the blue for PTSD blue. Going through it. All pointing to, it's a flag pointing downwards to no longer fight alone. Wow. It's an arrow.

The American way. Don't fight alone. Let's go. That's awesome. All right. Well, everyone else, give it a thought. Get back to me. Thank you again's awesome. All right. Well, everyone else, give it a thought. Get back to me. Thank you again, James.

Thank you.