Julian Dorey Podcast - #22 - Ty Martin

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

Ty Martin is an entrepreneur, podcaster, and athlete. Currently, he is the Co-Founder & CEO of Athletes United, a lacrosse training & performance company that works with blue chip lacrosse prospects from middle school to college. In addition to Athletes United, Ty is also a long time expert in real estate and has hosted two podcasts over the past half decade. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:38 - 15:54 ~ Julian talks about how he limited his phone and social use; AIM, the Razr phone, & the iRocker, iPhones & phone interventions 15:54 - 26:46 ~ How you can't put the genie back in the bottle with tech; iPhone vs. Blackberry; Ty talks about the two types of social media users 26:46 - 37:33 ~ People have different priorities because they have different personalities; Ty talks about chasing "freedom" in business & life; How Ty balances running his company and leaving time for himself 37:33 - 46:59 ~ Company cultures; How there are a lot of leaders who aren't really "leaders"; Putting people first in a company culture (Holman story from Ty) 46:59 - 1:02:46 ~ Groupthink & Echo Chambers; How companies like Facebook started in garages but "lost" that culture at some point in favor of the corporate mentality; The 90's Bulls, Michael Jordan, and the cohesive culture highlighted in "The Last Dance"; Ty & Julian discuss Brady, Belichick & "The Patriot Way" 1:02:46 - 1:16:44 ~ The US Military & "The Slippery Slope" with their Chain-of-Command; Edward Snowden, Stellar Wind; The intersection of National Security & Civil Rights (and Ty talks about "The Operator" by Robert O'Neill) 1:16:44 - 1:28:00 ~ The conundrum of giving up civil liberties for the national security; Governments that take power don't give it back; How Former Vice President Dick Cheney sold Former President George W. Bush on the Iraq War (The 1% Doctrine) 1:28:00 - 1:41:16 ~ Why CHINA is in danger of becoming a problem on the world stage; The WeChat App; The Chinese Communist Party's "Made In China 2025 Campaign"; How China is all about tech dominance for global power 1:41:16 - 2:00:58 ~ Ty & Julian recount TikTok's rise; The addictiveness of the TikTok app; the problem with Bytedance (a Chinese company) owning TikTok and collecting data; How TikTok solved for the sins of Vine & Instagram 2:00:58 - 2:05:58 ~ Ty brings up an old "learning song" from grade school 2:05:58 - 2:13:33 - How Foreign governments like China can utilize apps to undermine our youth and therefore our country's progress 2:13:33 - 2:26:12 ~ The Social Dilemma and how it represents a downside of Capitalism; Ty ties social media to Morgan Spurlock's famous "Super Size Me" Documentary 2:26:12 - 2:33:18 ~ Socials are the modern day "public square"; Kids and their practically-since-birth addiction to phones: Ty discusses his company's Amazon partnership 2:33:18 - 2:40:23 ~ How the youngest generations have always (and always will) drive both culture and pop culture; Why Zuckerberg has a problem with Instagram; Andrew Schultz and his Kanye West Theory 2:40:23 - END ~ What Ty's seeing the Commercial & Residential Real Estate Markets; NYC Real Estate Problems; Why the last Podcast Episode Julian & Ty did together was important Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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terms apply. Instacart. Groceries that over-deliver. There is a campaign right now in China. I believe it started in 2014 or 2015. Tell me about this the other day. This blew my f***ing mind. Called Made in China 2025. Now when I say Made in China 2025,

what do you think? I remember saying to you, I was like, oh, that just means that they want to have more things made there sure, which everything's been made in China for the last 40 years, so what happens? the world looks at that and goes, oh well that's already the case, like instantly people kind of turn a blind eye because they're like, that doesn't sound like anything

here's what they were really doing. Living like a robot, I think it's the freest way of living is to be able to block out your schedule, right? Yeah. Like the freest way. You know what? One of the big things I miss when I was building this thing, I didn't tell anyone about it. Yeah, you did.

Well, because you got me pointed in the right direction. That's my point. No one, and I swore you to silence the entire time you really did i was related to didn't know this was happening and i've been through it nauseam why that all was but you know i just want to do the damn thing yeah and i'm like all right let's just bring it to market we'll be ready to roll when we do and then boom we're just gonna keep going and and build this thing out and and kind of adjust it over time but when i was building it and it being prime covid and there's fucking nothing to do i would go off the radar man you did dude i would take my phone and i still try to do this sometimes but naturally once you've started the podcast you have so much inbound

coming and you have to take it just because it's like new listeners or people that found you or people you haven't talked to in 20 years who found it. So I have to have my phone on me all the time now, but I'm better than I was. But what I would do is I would literally take my phone and I would put it underneath the mattress back there for 12 hours a day. Good.

Like I would, the, my schedule was like I was up later because i would stay up until 4 30 working so maybe i woke up at like 11 and then i just want to talk about how you must have hated me for this um kind of like right during i guess when it started to be okay to see each other again i would say um i call you at like, I don't know, 9 p.m. And you wouldn't answer. I'd call you again at 11.

Maybe I'd get you on the phone. Or maybe you'd call me back at 12. I could get, like, and that was the thing. I would see, I took my text off my Mac. Yeah. But like, so I would have that shut. But I would see the phone calls come in and I would decide if it was something I wanted to answer. So once in a while.

I'd get you back and I'd be sitting here going like, all right, man, well, when are we boxing tomorrow? And I'd be like, can I come at 7? Because with me, this is before the morning routine movement, but I like getting my workout done early. And this is when I was lifting three days a week rather than five. So I'm like, hey, man, can I come in at 7? You're like, yeah, how about like 11.30?

How about like 11.30? I'm like, yeah like yeah man let me fuck up my whole day you live 45 minutes away yeah but anyway sorry but that's but it it was a way different schedule and i'm not like that far off that schedule right now i'm up very late more often than you know being up very early which is just kind of different it's the nature of the beast of what i'm doing but when i would have that maybe 10 straight hours where i wouldn't be touching that phone it was a beautiful thing man yeah and then i would just go it was great because if you want to go check your socials and stuff which in a way was actually kind of important to me just to be able to check that during covid

because you're so disconnected from people it's fucked up as that sounds like that's kind of what i thought you just go in and maybe like 1 30 in the morning check it and then you you put the phone right back there and you're like shit i got two more hours left in me and your phone's not next to you so i've noticed that since i haven't really been able to do that to keep the phone off me as much there are like some of the old habits are picked up a little bit another main thing i took the instagram app off my phone i did not have it on my phone the entire quarantine i fucking hate having it on my i will literally admit i've done that three times i've never been like addicted to anything like i can honestly say i can sit here and say i've never been addicted to anything it's like actually for me you know what it is

i guess it comes back to what i was saying to you before about like having to make it for yourself. I feel like when I'm not able to get in touch with stuff, like I'm just missing stuff. It's like this weird, like FOMO, but it's not even like, I don't want to use it in the FOMO of like,

I don't care who went to what party or whatever. And this is even before COVID. It's literally like, I don't want to miss something that like could really be an opportunity for me like for instance this is a really dumb example but being in real estate i'd hate to miss like someone saying something about like wanting to buy a place or like so you're thinking okay do you know what i mean or like or like missing putting the the the dots together on something with that or on the lacrosse side if someone reaches out to us hey I'm interested in training with you guys if I don't

get that we're not the only people doing it now we're doing it the best I can honestly say that especially in this market huh oh yeah yeah oh dude listen you we are like you know um on Facebook it says usually replies within have you ever seen this? Wait, what is it? So go, like, real quick, just go to a Facebook page. Play the Jeopardy music or some sort of whole music. So just like go to us. Go to Athletes United Lacrosse. And I've been hammering my team about this.

What's the context, though? The point is that it literally will tell you how quickly companies respond. Holy shit, I never knew that good us fucking like us sorry pal you're good i'm not on facebook as much these days so scroll down scroll down where is it click message sorry message up top yep yep oh they might have gotten rid of it so it would tell you like how little says average response time is go back up it's i'm telling you it's here so i'm telling you it's here what was that what was the premise just come back and tell me the premise it would literally say like usually replies within a

minute or two that's fucking crazy damn it i wish i was there i'm telling you you know what just for curiosity but that that is the that's the problem. Because like, I thought about this. When I was putting my phone to the side, right? I'm listening. You know how I, you and I are similar in another way. We're kind of similar in this respect, just based on the businesses we've been in and what we've done. I'm Mr. Reachable. I'm Mr. Connector.

I'm Mr. 24-7. We both are. Exactly. And so what does that require? It requires that I'm on the phone all the fucking time of course and like i'm talking like on the phone no here it is so i pulled up eat clean bro see what says right under their thing yeah usually replies within a day for us i want us to be usually replies within hours and that's and that's the thing when i was doing this it was the first time

in my career and then i really thought back to college and like the shit i did there and as far as like what my roles were with in my friend groups and stuff and i'm like nah this is the first time maybe since like the beginning of high school where i was not 1000 accessible at all times like 24 7 julian and so it was it was a crazy thing at first because i'm like, wait, I always answer the phone. I always take care of it yesterday when it's there. And so when I was first doing it, because I told you, I would see the phone calls come in. But I wouldn't take them very often.

And when it was first happening, that was really hard. I'd be like, oh, it's that guy. I got to talk to him. It's like an itch. And you know what? Nobody really cared hey you i cared like they they know as long as i would get back to them you know within a day which sometimes i didn't get back to people because then i'd forget about it or whatever

and i would feel bad about that so after this was like all done i was like apologizing some people like oh i never called you whatever but there was this really powerful thing, just because it was like a detox, where I was looking at it and going, oh my god. It is very exciting to look at all the people whose calls I am not going to answer and whose texts I am not even going to open. It's like when you just step out of that bubble and you realize, oh my god, I've been in the middle of this game for so long and now I'm taking like maybe six months in that case to myself to be like no i'm good i i think it's a really it's a really interesting piece because we're we're in that weird middle ground i think i might have said this before too but we are the only generation i can think of where we grew up kind of without that yeah and then right at those really pivotal years, I mean, 14, how old are you?

27. 27. I'm almost 26. So really we were at that same time where it's like, also we went from like, it's not a thing to like when we were like 10 to 12, like aim became a thing. Oh my God.

But even that you couldn't take with you. So it wasn't a phone. It was as long as you were sitting in your way statuses. And that's what I'm saying. So like, I would literally be like, all right, you know what? You couldn't take with you. It wasn't a phone. It was as long as you were sitting in your room. Remember the away statuses? And that's what I'm saying. So I would literally be like, all right, you know what? Go and play football with the boys. Don't text.

Remember those? Don't text. That's what people would say. Don't text. It's like, where'd that go? And then, you know, really though, we went from that. I can't even think of, I guess the next wave was MySpace. Well, where it really got flipped is when you had the phones that had the slide-out keyboard. That's where the game changed.

Because then BlackBerry came with that whole generation. When it went from the Razer phone, oh, we're dating ourselves right here. Oh, dude, well, I got one too. When it went from the Razer phone, which was the last great flip phone, and then went to maybe it was like the Envy or something, where it flipped up and you had the actual keyboard and you could physically type, that was it. That's when people really started. I didn't have the Envy, but I forget which phone I had. Like it was the Slider or something. Was it the Chocolate?

No. I think it was literally called the Slider. And then, dude, it didn't take long. That's right after then the iPhonehone started coming into like big time adoption because i came out in 07 but it really you know like end of 08 into 09 that like during the global financial crisis is right after that is when people really started picking up the iphone like oh i think this is the thing now yeah you know i'm gonna uh i'm gonna date myself with this one but my first phone was apple's first phone that they had it was called the i rocker look it up i want a picture of this i rocker i rock i don't i actually don't know

ckr all right type in apple you're gonna have to type in apple i rocker no it's gonna have to be apple i rocker what year was this dude this was i was fifth grade so oh five let's see it i've never heard of this in my life or it was just the rocker boom there she blows the the first ever itunes iphone i think it's i'm gonna put the picture in the bottom right i think it's stored like 200 songs and they're click on that one the the the itunes phone was the why do i not know about dude i remember going to the apple store with my parents and like literally being like oh like this is gonna be my first phone and they surprised the hell out of me oh i did know about this it's because they partnered that's what this was they partnered with motorola steve jobs

hated this yeah they had because the way that the i do you know that story like how that was created by iphone no absolutely not oh my god They all hated, it was very simple. It was scratching the itch. They all hated their phones. The entire design team and like Steve Jobs and the leadership at Apple, they would complain about their phones all the time, like this piece of plastic garbage or whatever.

So they did, I mean, you must've gotten this during like the five minutes that they did this. No, it was like, I still remember like very specific things about this. One, it was the was like i still remember like very specific things about this one it was the first phone that i knew of that you could plug in like normal headphones too and the music was like real good yeah which at that time like but it was still shitty like like the product was plastic and shit right oh yeah it was definitely plastic yeah so they had done that and they didn't

like it because they had to brand with another company which they were like against so i got it i must have gotten in december of 05 so like literally it was i was turning 10 yeah so i don't yeah i don't know how long apple remained partners with them but all the designers hated it so much that you know how like the ipad came out in 2010 yeah like three years technically after the first iphone they were making the ipad first they were in the midst of doing that and steve jobs was like him and johnny ive who was their cdo head designer probably the greatest industrial one of the greatest industrial designers of all time they they always thought on the same wavelength and they're like all right why are we making this eight or ten inch screen fuck it we're gonna make it smaller and make it the phone and so they started building it where they're like, all right, why are we making this eight or 10 inch screen? Fuck it. We're going to make it smaller and make it the phone. And so they started building it where they're

like, okay, number one, we want it to be elegant. That's why they had the hard silver back and not the plastic. They wanted to keep all plastic away from it. They're like, we want it to be a one-stop shop where we take the music integrated into that and the iPod here, essentially take the internet integrated into that. So it's like you have a little mini computer and then they wanted to make it something where you could literally just feel around so it had to be touchscreen in that way so they solved for the sins of all this stuff because they felt like the phones that were being used first of all like touchscreen technology was available and some companies were doing a great job so they bought like a really not big company out of Delaware.

They quietly bought them. That whole, so when you scroll from page to page on the iPhone, you know how there's the little delay and it's like the loose wave? Yeah. That's the patented technology that that company had. So they're like, Steve Jobs was like, that's like artistic. That's what we want. We want people to feel like a wave is almost splashing over the page instead of you know and so they they basically took everything that

they hated about the phones on the market whether it be the one they partnered on like this the rocker or you know some of the one like the razor or and then even like the blackberries like the early blackberries because they're like it's like you drop it it's it's like a little piece of plastic and like you gotta press it it's it hurts your fingers and stuff so they're like what should we do instead like make something when you drop it literally fucking gets ruined and just shatters completely nah but but it was that was the point when when it's glass yes that happens and so they had to fix that over the years and make it at least better. But it's elegant. Whereas with the plastic, it was never elegant.

It's like, all right, it cracked and broke. I've seen the jokes about it all the time on Twitter. That Nokia phone could literally survive a day. Oh, my God. You remember, what was the game? Snake? Yeah. Snake.

Dude, you could literally throw that thing out your window and have no problem. If your buddy's like, oh, I forgot my phone. You're like, I'll just throw it out my bedroom. My aunt deadass had that phone from 2002 through like, it was like 2014 maybe. She literally had it. Snake champion. Oh, yeah. She had it.

But she literally had that phone for like 12 years and finally i think her i forget the exact story but i think her kids were like mom yeah we're gonna get you everyone's had a phone intervention with their parents i my dad had uh it was a razor and i finally was like dad like get with it man i text you and it comes up green that's it and that's the thing about technology like when people are talking about like putting the genie back in the bottle with stuff like people talk about like oh everyone's renewed interest in social media with the social dilemma and all that or everyone's renewed interest in like art they don't know anything about it but they just know artificial intelligence real thing like it's apparently around us like problem and they talk about the

downsides of technology and they're like we we can't let this happen or whatever. Statistics and history, more than anything, say that when a population wants to adopt something, there are going to be people who have enough self-interest to adopt it. And then other people will. And you can't undo it. Oh, okay. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. can't undo it so okay you see what i'm saying so all these you i always look at the iphone as one of the best examples because you had all these people in society like fuck that first the first type of person you had the corporate blackberry guy it was called the crackberry because it was

like smoking crack like you had it and that was your thing and they said we will never ever adopt this touch screen madness that's for that's for people who want to see exactly yeah it's like it's like that juvenile i still remember that stigma i mean i can't think of who it was but someone said that at some point if it's good people are going to use it yeah listen here's something that i don't think any of us can you know deny and there's going to be like that one dude that you don't even have in your group chat because he doesn't have an iphone but like at the end of the day it it checks every single box at least in some way and that's why you know we're not here to sit here and be like oh my god apple's the best thing ever i mean there's a million people that talk about that stuff every day i'm not a tech blogger but

it really is one of those things that they got it right and they continue to just make it and we talked about this one of the first times it might be the first time we met, it continues to get a little bit better, but they never perfect it because if they perfected it, it'd be done. There's no such thing as perfection. But what I mean is we go, oh my God, why just now? And I talked about this before. Why just now can you swipe someone while you're FaceTiming to the corners

so you can go do all their shit? Yeah. They could have done that like you know and my favorite thing is they send the ios update man and the ios update is just like this time bomb i have noticed with because i have the iphone xr and i've had that for a while is that what i have no maybe i never paid attention like this but i'm the no that's the next one up that was right after the xr so slightly newer but i have noticed this time around the ios update doesn't kill your phone like in the past your battery life went down 25 every single time they sent that thing and like it's crazy just because you wonder how much they work in game theory of like or i don't know if the term's

game theory but they work in planned obsolescence or some of those things like where it's like okay once we do this update that next update will be four months later and we'll integrate this thing we already have right now but we're not going to do it yet and yeah but i mean to get back to the original point on this people i remember my grandpa for example who's a farm boy growing up like a simple kind of guy like that like not someone who's into like crazy gadgets or or whatever he would pound the table for years i'm not getting one of those iphones this is ridiculous or whatever fucking guys had an iphone for five years yeah you know if you would have told him in 2007 you're gonna own an

iphone he would have said when i'm dead no i own one. And then that just trickles into like 16 other things, right? Like the same thing, my dad, you know, oh, I won't go to Facebook. Who's on Facebook? 16 times more than me sending me videos of like a rabbit humping a dog. Like my pops. Like it's just one of those. How amazing is that? Like I remember when social media was coming up

parents were like you know it was like a thing like if you were in middle school or something it's like were they gonna let you have it that was like a big thing because the internet's this dangerous place and now you know 10 15 years later our parents are the ones like spreading like fake news pictures up there and shit i swear man they they knew what was happening the social platforms did they knew what they had there yeah i agree with that what was the one guy the sean parker guy the he was one of the original facebook guys oh the one who started timber lake and that yes yes yes where he napster napster that's He was like, heard this quote years ago. He said that the way that they designed these platforms in the early stages, so the companies like Facebook and stuff, is they just wanted to be able to create all these little data-backed impetuses or impedi, whatever it is.

Impedi. Yeah. I don't know. We make upwards. Yeah, we do but he wanted to be able they all wanted to work that in so that you could get this little dose of like oxytocin every time something happens so like one of the main things are obviously the push button notifications and the way that they design those they make you want to click it because you feel like you're missing

out on something or you feel like you're not going to respond. It's genius, man. I hate it, but it's so genius. And you know what it is? We can't control it. It hits that little like piece of your mind that no matter how much I tell myself that I don't care what's going on, like there's still a piece of me that's like, well, someone tagged me in what? Or I got this. Like, it's crazy.

It's just, it's almost frustrating honestly we forget and it's also like the way we think about it like i think we talked last time you were in here about like when you're thinking about stories that you put up when it's like a heated time and you would put you're taking down the one stop fucking killing each other right yeah so the way that we think of like a story or a post or something we put up is we picture all the people who are seeing that as if they're sitting in an arena and we are we are projecting to all of them up on the stage we're not real first of all it's interesting way we're separated in that it's online so it's not in person so there is a degree of separation there yeah like literally geographically

and physically and then also yeah sometimes like people will be in a group together and be like oh did you see so-and-so's post and there's like four of them looking at at the same time but they're all looking at it like in general your audience is looking at it yeah one off like one by one so now picture you know random person x follower x just pick one out and be like oh yeah that's someone who's liked my post before or something like that they're doing it alone they're not like announcing out loud i am checking julian dory's instagram right now hold on let me let you know if it's going to be a like or not it's like they're scrolling here silently they might be talking with someone and just be like, you know, even a comment.

They might literally be, you and I could be talking right now and I could be commenting on a post. All right, you're throwing me through a loop. You're right. And it's odd. And this gets deeper than, I guess, just the piece of like, all right, well, yeah, we're all interacting, but I've never thought of it that way.

To like, you could be sitting on the couch with other people, let's just say Jim, Tom, and Bob, but you're interacting with whatever. Like that person over in Mexico. You know what I mean? It's actually insane. I've never actually once thought of it like that. You could interact with this person even in the presence of these people yeah and stop interacting with these people when you are in their presence yeah and then you think people you think everyone

is is taking note of how many likes you have or how many no one fucking does that unless they're already obsessed with you i've never like that's one thing that we've spoken on. That, to me, and I like, you said this last time, I don't give a flying fuck. I don't, I really don't care about that. And that's something that I think, and that's something you just said, I don't care about. Like, I really just don't. Like, it likes, that piece of it to me is not what it's about. We spoke on this, but it's just about sharing things

that like make me happy and putting out some positivity yeah it's really always or things that we're working on yeah you're sharing you're gonna share some clips from the show why because you worked on it and you're proud of it yeah exactly like putting out stuff you you stand behind yeah and another thing by the way because when i put the instagram ad back on my phone obviously doing this and i just generally keep it there sometimes i'll still like delete it during the day just like hey i know i'm not gonna need it like over these next eight hours i'll take it off there it's not that hard to do yeah but one thing i didn't ever turn back on was notifications i gotta do that oh it's the best actually i have that right now i don't have

notifications it's the best like i have literally put up posts now and for just forgot i put up a post because the phone's not reminding me i put up a post and i'm like oh shit i did post yesterday and then i go in i'm like all right that one did well that one didn't do well and that's you know and you're saying did well because you're worried about your your way of spreading yeah right that's that's the thing i want people to understand it's there are two types, really two types of users when it comes to users. But seriously, when it comes to social media, it's the people that are trying to grow something and the people that have some sort of need for that attention. And I truly think that one can be mistaken for the other very often.

Yes. I know, I know, I said this before, but I know I get mistaken as the latter, where it's for, like, attention. Where it's like, no, you fucking idiot. I literally, like we talked about, go all day every day. Like, a picture of me on a lacrosse field, like that, I don't know if you saw this, I posted one, like, recently where I'm on the phone, but I have a lacrosse stick in my hand.

Yeah, yeah. Throw that in here because this is important. That's not a picture where I'm looking cool. I'm literally closing a real estate deal, like getting terms accepted in the middle of a water break of one of my lacrosse lessons. As soon as you're doing that, you fucking post it. And no one has to see that you were like, hold on, Eddie. Eddie, do we have the angle?

No, Eddie, to the left. Dude quite quite literally though shooter nick i call him shooter i don't know this is a great story and i want to tell this eddie's your cameraman by the way eddie's my video uh videographer my head videographer we have we have uh four or five guys on our media team but um i do want to tell the story and then get back to it. But Nick, Nick Iorati, who I call Shooter, this might be a little bit funnier to me. It's like one of those, had you be there? You had to be there, whatever. I'm sitting with him. First time we ever met. He's a photographer. He's super talented. I saw some of his work and we're sitting there going back and forth and he's like, yeah, COVID's just been killing me. And I'm like, oh, you know, why? What's going on? He's like, sometimes I'm just sitting at home and he's like yeah covid's just been killing me i'm like oh you know why what's going on he's like sometimes i'm just sitting at home he's like god man i wish i could just go out

and shoot something right now like i just want to shoot somebody doing something like i'm like and he's saying this loud i'm like yeah you can't say this in public like people don't know you're talking about photography so since then he's been shooter he'll always be shooter everyone calls him shooter i don't know if that's like even a funny story but i love it because he was it took a minute for it to land. We're across the table right now. Sometimes I just sit at home and wish I could just shoot somebody. It's great.

So shout out Shooter. But yeah, you're right. I'm not sitting there like, did we get that? No, like legitimately. You have the guys around and you're just doing your thing. Yeah. And that's what it is. It's half me working on whatever and half me working doing your thing. Yeah. And like it's, that's what it is. It's half, you know,

me working on whatever and half me working on whatever else. And I'm going to post that because I'm proud of it. And if you like it, awesome. If you don't, I'm fine. I actually look at it as like motivation more than anything

because you're one of those guys, you are a true, whatever those 16 personality things are, you're one of those guys you are a true whatever those 16 personality things are you're you're one of those true like entrepreneur types like constantly moving constantly doing so you have your guys out there shooting you and yeah like you're not just running your lacrosse business you are in real estate and doing all these other things and constantly you know obviously that's why you're a guy who blocks out his day but one of the things that's kind of crazy is when you think about it, everyone's got different priorities because they have different personalities.

So like a lot of people, they may look at that. They may look at the picture of you on the phone closing a deal and then holding a lacrosse stick like, what the fuck is this guy's deal? Whereas other people look at that and they're like, oh my god, I want to be that guy. Like he gets it. He's all over it all the time. Yeah. I think part of it, and this is interesting because obviously I work with the next generation of lacrosse players, right?

So I think part of it for them is I wonder, I do actually wonder this sometimes. I don't do it for anyone besides myself. I don't live the life I live for anyone besides myself. But I do wonder at times if those guys get inspired by what I do, because at times, yeah, like I do wish that, you know, there was, I wish my service existed when I was 15. And that's part of the reason we exist today. But I would have loved to have someone like that to look up to not down this like model says in perfect story, whatever. But I am curious once in a while, if these guys look at that and go, you know what, that's something I want to be like. And then there's also that other type of group where it's not like kids I work with, people, my peers, whoever, people our age, who look at, you know, what I do.

And I try to be that because, you know, as like I get more involved in, you know, talking to people and work and everything. I'd love to have more people on the same wavelength. And I'd love to have more people, you know, kind of bring fitness and time blocking and meditation and all that into their lives because I think it works for me. Now, what are you chasing? Oh, man. One thing, honestly, one thing. It's just freedom. And I think that's like the classic like thing honestly one thing um it's it's just freedom and i think that's like the classic like no no it's 25 year old wonderlust fucking answer um no i am literally chasing the freedom and i kind of have it have it in some ways the the

freedom to wake up and go all right what i want to do today what do i want to do today i mean i just joked with you in the kitchen i was like do you want to go to colorado next thursday flights are 60 bucks yeah like literally because i can you know why i can reschedule my lessons if i have to i don't like to do that i have like two books for next weekend as of right wait a second hold on god how do you even do that because yes like obviously you do a lot of one-on-ones, and that's the nature. That's one of the key tenets of the business. But it's a full-blown business.

You guys put together content. You put together – you literally put together like a podcast strictly for like kids applying to college as great D1 lacrosse players. So you're even like niched out on content where it's not the moneymaker. It's what you do to add service. Of course. You do nutrition plans. You set up workout plans. You deal with like running the company itself. So how can you do all that when it's not just like,

oh, I got to cancel my lessons? Because I've built such a relationship with every family. Every family we work with, either I, you know, I myself or one of my coaches have built a serious relationship with. We made a video where we talked about that just kind of briefly in there. We're not just the people that roll the balls out. And this is why we don't do the group session bullshit where we throw everyone into one now. We will get player 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

and go, all right, you know what? You guys have all worked with us. It's time to kind of compete and throw them into a compete day. But it's the reason we don't do that. Let's throw everyone out. On Tuesday nights, you guys are all going to pay this, and you're going to show up, and we're going to go through drills.

No one's going to get better, and we're not going to know any of you. And we don't really get to pay attention to any one of you because we're just here to make some money and go home. That's not us. It'll never be us. So for that reason, I have a relationship with my parents that I say, hey, guys, listen, I haven't taken a vacation in literally a year. Not that I need that all the time, but if I wanted to, I'm sure I could text a couple

of parents and be like, actually, I found a cheap flight to Colorado. I'm going to take off for a weekend. There's nothing wrong with that. That's another thing, too. I'm an entrepreneur. Yeah, I am, but I am not one that pretends like it's life or death on everything we do. Andrew might say differently. He might say, God, you act like everything's the most important thing.

That's just a different person. He's a different personality type. He's so laid back. Yeah, it's fair. I mean, listen, there are things that are, like us missing an important message or email or whatever, that is life and death. But it's not life and death for me to go, you know what?

Hey, I know you were booked with me. You already know Andrew. You already know Brandon. were booked with me. You already know Andrew. You already know Brandon. You already know Colin. You already know Anthony. You're already one of my coaches. They're going to cover you this time. And by the way, I said cancel or reschedule.

I just meant have someone fill me. Yeah, yeah. We rarely, rarely cancel on someone or reschedule. It's just sometimes we cover each other. I mean, for right now, you know, Andrew has a full-time job. Someone might go to book him at 3 on a Tuesday. It's like, guess who you're getting?

It's going to be me. It's not going to be Andrew. Yeah, I'm shocked he's, like, still doing that, you know, because – and look, that speaks to, like, his work ethic too because he could easily give that up just to go do full-time what you guys are doing right now with all the success. But in your 20s why not double dip if you can i mean i i know it leaves short time but that's what makes you guys

so impressive because you know you close real estate deals all the time he's got his full-time job as well and yet you guys run a full company here and have grown it i mean it's mind-blowing how exponential the growth has been and and it has to go into so many of these things. You talk about the time management. You talk about understanding your limits and your balance and stuff. But yeah, there's also, hey, it's a business, but it's not. No business is 365, 24-7 per person. It's not per person.

The business doesn't, and that's where we set it up in the right way, right? The business will never be in a spot where, unless we've really screwed up our schedule, but there's never going to be a time where someone needs help with their game or their recruiting process and no one's available. I've been lucky enough to have such great people jump on. And honestly, I want to take a quick second, and it's because there's a big event for us coming up. I just want to talk about Rachel real fast because she's the perfect example of someone that comes right in line with what we're trying to do.

Trains girls at an extremely high level. Builds relationships with the family. Does little things like writes birthday cards for the girls she trains and makes personalized videos and sends them to them. Now, let me ask you a question. Sure. Because this is applicable to any kind of business. Sure. You hear corporate speak thrown around all the time.

It's in everything I say, you say. It's a part of some stuff. But one of the things I say all the time that you've now said a couple of times as well is like building relationships. Yeah. And it's so key. And it's really just what it means.

It just has turned into this corporate buzzword. But when you say like i'm building relationships with these families does that go beyond just like writing the birthday card to doing the personal thing like that or does it go into like you understand who they are and what they're about and what their priorities are for their kid and what their kids priorities are that they put forth and that's where i was getting to it's it's like she does all the stuff on the surface that's great and then there's a million other things behind the scene. And it's funny that we're touching on the building relationships part

because that's actually the slogan of the firm I'm at right now, building successful relationships. And it's so much deeper than just like, yeah, we're going to give the charity and we're going to do this. Someone like Rachel, and I really want to dive into this, she knows so much about the way the parents that the parents of the kids she works with and the kids think operate the way like, you know,

mom might be a little bit more supportive here than dad. She's just, she's like tactical with it. And it's kind of amazing to see because this is someone who her day job, social work. So she helps people all the time, has to kind of dig into like her cases like there could be a drug abuse problem there could be whatever right and she almost applies that to lacrosse and it's crazy because you know she's she's working with mostly like younger girls but she's able to kind of like

surgically get in there to where she understands the families. So, like I said, if she was in a situation where, I don't know, say she wanted to go somewhere, Puerto Rico, and she was supposed to have a lesson.

She could say in the right way, Hey, listen, I can't, I'm going to actually like leave country, but I know based because I know you, you're going to love Lauren. You're going to love Christine.

You're going to love Nicole. You're going to love Talia. You're going to love who it doesn't matter. You know, you're going to love Brittany. You're going to love Nicole. You're going to love Talia. You're going to love whoever. It doesn't matter. You know? You're going to love Brittany. It could be literally any one of our coaches. So that's the type of way we're built. And there's not one bad egg on our team.

And if there is, I'm unaware of it. We take, you know, pretty good. Well, you don't really have turnover. That's what I noticed. You really, people, like, you've only grown your team. you know pretty good well you don't really have turnover that's what i noticed you really people like you've only grown your team and i think i know of one person that had that in the last year was there and is no longer there yeah and and again no hard feelings there like had to go and then and actually you know i did just mention christine she is moving for her daytime job and

she's not going to be able to train for us anymore it's not like it was like yeah she's moving away she had like she's moving hours away so yeah that that's the way we're built and we're listen man we are like a tight-knit group we have a group chat called the friday night squad because that's when we meet and like literally we meet on fridays we get done whatever we have to get done then we'll have drinks. We'll go bowling, whatever. We enjoy each other. So we celebrate stuff for each other. We're always like, you know, hoorah for each other.

Outside of, well, really, no. I was going to say outside of me, but really none of us, it's our only thing. It's not our only thing. So we celebrate each other in every other way. Like I passed the New Jersey real estate exam and someone, I think it might've been shooter puts that or no, it was Eddie puts that into the group chat and then everyone's pumped up for me for that.

Like, you know, uh, when Christine gets this, got this promotion and she was moving away, like we were all like, good for you. Like it sucks.

We're going to miss you. But that's the team, man. So supportive. It's a real, it's real. It's not this hunky dory. Like, you know sucks we're gonna miss you but like that's the team man so supportive it's a real it's real it's not this hunky-dory like you know we're the um what the hell's the show with all the the the brady bunch probably we're not like all like yeah and then hate each other yeah because i've seen that culture um that's called by the way that's the culture in a lot of places everything's everything's a

facade don't get me started man it's like i right before you came here i took a call from someone i haven't talked to in a while and he's he works in tech sales like high up and some crazy shit and even there because i you know what i don't even know if i would call it that like he's not like a salesman like it's it's not like straight up sales it's a i don't even know if i would call it that like he's not like a salesman like it's it's not like straight up sales it's a i don't want to get it wrong but he was talking about the culture of like frontline sales at companies today because he had come from a couple other places before and originally when he first started out he was literally one of the guys on the phone you know b2b whatever and he's like it's bullshit they're telling people

they transform just based on medium like what you use as far as like how to make a sale but as far as the actual tactics behind a sale and who you are and what you're about and how you go about hitting your number and doing it nothing's changed in the last 40 50 years but what has that leaves a lot of people like this behind is people have changed an ability to understand other individuals and what goes on in their head just by and i don't want to go too far with that but being able to perceive things or saying like that kind of seems like bullshit the the level of bullshit meter that literally everyone has even if they don't realize it is at such an all-time high that when you see these places,

whether it be a sales team or a company or any kind of corporate front. Football teams, we're like, we're a family. Like, no, no, no. Some of you are. You're not. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I actually want to roll that into something here.

And I want to talk about coaching a little bit. Not like coaching in what I do physically, like coaching in a lacrosse program but thank God I didn't have to bring this up yeah I'm happy right yeah so I I truly think that 90 this is a crazy stat that like I'm just pulling out of the air but I'd say 90% of people that are coaches or team leaders or whatever, whatever, whatever, aren't really that. And there are very few companies, teams, even like families that do this right. And it goes into what we're talking about with my current spot. I have always operated better in a situation where I am getting coached.

I'm receiving the tools of the trade. I'm receiving the do's and don'ts. I am learning about the fuck-ups that someone's had, okay? I think that so many times people think they build... Like, you actually heard me take a call right before this. I could send you some free training. I think so many times people think they're building something like that, when in all reality, it's watered down. It's not genuine. It's not legitimate. And it's getting to a point where it's seriously bothering me to see so much of that out there.

Yeah, and another point within that communication and wanting to get not just validation and reassurance but also getting like the criticism to be able to respond to it you're a big affirmation guy enormous i mean you talked to it like you literally have it as a part of your morning routine there and that's i can tell you it doesn't surprise me at all that that's your morning routine and i guarantee you based on that and like the idea of having to write the love letter to money which is like reassurance the idea of having to be grateful to shit which is for shit which is literally reassurance too like that speaks to you like that's who you are like you're that guy that's like about like hey i need to do this i need to get this done i want to do it this way i want my people to be like this so that we can all be at like you're one of these

and that's what makes you such a good team player because you want to project that on everyone. To that point, though, not everybody's like that. And a lot of times the people who are in those positions where you've experienced it and you're like, oh, I don't get that from them. They suck. It's because they're not like that, and they don't understand that. And this is such a problem in society.

We don't have – everyone overuses the word empathy. Let me use that buzzword real quick. But beyond just empathy, we don't seek to understand why other people think or feel or are the way they are. And it's – everyone likes to point out the politics example. Of course, that's 100 true you know people from especially people who are polarized hard on one side or the other make you feel like you are less than if you support x candidate or whatever it happens all the time yep but it happens on the day-to-day which is i would argue is even more important because it leads to stuff like the politics

like having it happen in politics i completely agree where people are like you know i'm not you said it earlier on an example you were giving i'm not like that so why the fuck is this person like that and when you look at things like corporate cultures and naturally like sales cultures which is supposed to be like a family at the office or whatever there's that culture of hey the top of the pyramid feels this way so the rest of the pyramid has to be that way. And you forget that you're dealing with people. I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who has built a few companies. There were like 12 things from this conversation that made me go home and take notes. I've definitely mentioned him on a couple other podcasts, I think.

Maybe I haven't. Who knows? I can never tell what's a podcast anymore and what's not. Your life is just like a perpetual right but he he's not like this overly charismatic guy or anything at all he's very like laid back and unassuming but he has built literally like the best company in the space that he's in twice and now the third one he's building right now which is a little bit of a different space is i mean it's doing tens of millions of dollars and so i like to get a feel especially when i meet guys like this and i'm like you know this isn't like the person that's like i would go through

fucking hell burning hell with you because i just believe in you right away it's someone who's like laid back and getting some of some of the information from him as to what drives him like people always say that they'll literally ask you, what drives you or why are you successful? And they'll ask you these buzzy type questions. I like when you get into the conversation, then it just kind of comes up naturally based on something he's saying. And one of the things I started to realize,

and then I asked him about directly that then became the answer of, this is why I'm successful without me having to say that, was he led with people. And when he first said it, of course, it felt like a buzzword to me or a buzz sentence or buzz phrase. I'm like, what do you mean? And he goes, the way I've had my businesses go is when if I have employees who are happy and motivated, he describes it like if I have employees who are going to treat the company like it's their own, they need to feel like the company treats them like their life is first. Yep. So he said, yeah, you want to use like a more extreme example?

If somebody's mom gets cancer and, you know, she wants to go take care of her, I will pay her for four years if I have to. That's more important go do it and he said do you think they ever forget that no he's like there's a concept of you give and you receive and it's all a beautiful karma because you're not necessarily receiving things you're receiving people's happiness and you're receiving people's effort because they believe in what's happening because they believe in you so i worked in in that type of culture. And though I left the company, it had nothing to do with the company. I just wanted to do something else. I wanted to get into real estate. And I wanted to say the name of the company because it's important. So I worked

for a company called ARI, owned by Holman Automotive. That's the Holman family of businesses they have. Oh, they're huge. Yeah. They have a bunch of car dealerships, ARI, which is a fleet leasing company, a truck upfitting company. They have a ton of business that they uh ari which is a fleet leasing company a truck upfitting company they have they have a ton of business that they do mindy holman and this is she's a third gen owner is one of those people that does just that that you spoke about and literally to that example that you just gave among you know amongst 75 000 other ways that she's been part of people's lives. Anyone goes down with anything, she's there. Even

if she's never met you. There are people that work for her in Seattle. She's based out of Mount Laurel. She's there. That's important and it's real. And it's real, right? Because we just talked about it. She's not checking a box. Well, you know what part of it is? I think this is

really part of it. They're privately owned. They're a family-owned company. I think sometimes it's funny. It's when you have that privately owned but to that scale, because they're a multi-billion dollar business, it's that perfect medium. It's not like the little whatever.

Even like athletes, we are small compared comparatively speaking and we and i think that we have a you know good culture like we talked about but there's a lot of other companies that are our size that have horrible cancer cultures um and then there's the the publicly traded massive companies where quite literally like without saying his name you know i'm talking about if he leaves tomorrow yeah they're like oh wait for your two weeks we don't need your two weeks we got we got 85 other ones of you like they'll just take the next call yeah so like and and that's it it kind of dehumanizes it a little bit like when you are

the ceo who's the public company where you have to get your quarterly yeah it's just when you make when you how do i put this numbers are important if you don't sell you don't hit x number you don't have the right revenue you can't pay your people your business can't exist like people are like to say numbers don't matter no no no they do a lot you, where you put the numbers in the expression of the mission of the business, which sounds a little fucked up, so let me explain. All right. Are you with me? Is what matters.

Because when you are just leading with, we have to hit this number and we have to do this thing, it dehumanizes it and makes people feel like a cog on the machine. Yep. it dehumanizes it and makes people feel like a cog on the machine. When you are leading with, hey, how do we feel? What do we think about our product? Like, are we excited about this? What's good about it? What's not? What are people saying?

Hey, man, how's like, just talking to employees, like, how's your life going? How's your wife doing? Whatever. Stuff like that. It's real. And then you know what happens? People care more. And then when they care more, you tend to get better results over time. And when you get better results over time, there's that culture of, oh, yeah, we're getting the numbers, but we don't have to come out and just say like that first and that is something that I've taken into what we're doing right now. I never lead with, I actually never talk about what my goals are as the business owner, right?

It's more about, all right, let's put everyone in the best chance to succeed because then those numbers will happen. Unless I set some unbelievable, unrealistic goal, and then I just have to look at myself and say, what are you doing? Publicly traded companies, it's always about the next quarterly. It's always about the earnings report. It's always about that. It's almost like a catch-22 because if you climb the ranks or you come in as a CEO of a

company, how are you supposed to not be focused on that? Because your job is that. Your job is to keep investors happy, right? Keep that stock going. I think that i'll never i will truly i can say with almost full confidence i'll never be a ceo of a publicly traded company so i can't even pretend like i know um but in many ways you know when you look at it you can't you almost can't blame them for for having that attitude where it's numbers first because at the end of the day you gotta look out for you if that ceo is not worried about the quarreling they're gone they're gone and i think every ceo

for the most part is pretty happy with the money they're making if they're at a publicly traded company you know what it is ty it is the ultimate ultimate ultimate example of forced groupthink proof yeah you have when there is an agenda that has a key priority on it and it relates to nothing that that really relates to human life you are immediately now slaves to that result that intended result and i just think about this so much more than i ever have now because i had seen it in college where in a class they threw out that buzzword and i had i had never heard of group think before i thought the professors made it up for this class i'm like that's kind of a stupid word yeah and it was one it ended up being one of the most important things I ever learned, and I didn't even focus on it in college. It was after college I started to go, huh. Oh, yeah.

Oh, okay. And you hear people talk about like echo chambers and stuff. That's what happens. When you are no longer able to think for yourself because you're slave to one idea, to borrow a phrase from my friend Horo who's on this podcast you're a robot yep and again like of course comes back just like the thing i said earlier it comes back to we see it politically but that is such a narrow way of looking at it it's it's politics or one end of it it's everything well right and and it's probably the worst in businesses and i'll give an example that that i saw a lot i think you might be right about that. Yeah.

Here's where I saw it the worst. At one point in my life as a former employer, I really wanted a promotion. I was in supply chain. I wanted to be in sales. You think I'm more built for supply chain or sales, right? So I want that promotion so bad. So I'm waiting for this opportunity to come up in this position. It's not i'm sitting here in supply chain i'm like you know what i'm gonna go apply for something in customer service because that's one step closer to sales that's the way i looked at it sure it

could be right could be wrong i want to be an account executive so let's just let's just put it this way it's kind of like a hierarchy thing but there was this new business development role that i wanted but i couldn't get there because it wasn't open there was an account executive role in customer service and underneath that was client administrator i'm sitting here in supply chain i was waiting for the first thing in customer service to open client administrator or account executive so i could hop at it and you know what i was told well you don't want to look like someone that's you know just applying for anything to get out of their role i'm like you don't want to look like someone that's just applying for anything to get out of their role. I'm like, no, no, no. You don't want to look like.

Right. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I have my goals and this is what I want to do. And I don't want to be in supply chain anymore. So I want to take a step to at least working with clients on the back end so that I can start to learn our business more to go to the front end. But no one's going to ask me that question. Why is Ty Martin applying to get out of supply chain so bad? He's applying to every open position in customer service.

Account administration, whatever it's called. Account management, I forget. It's easy to just say the buzzword, corporation. I'm going to go way beyond that. Whether it's a corporation, a government, an agency, a large group of people. A team. A team. Yeah, sure.

This is where groupthink existed before social media. And it was every bit as strong as the same things that are the downsides of social media. The same reasons why you're afraid to post this or afraid to post that because of what people will think. Everyone in these big groups, they get into these organizations. And I don't know what the crossing point is but every organization like think about it facebook even mark zuckerberg kind of known as an iron fist kind of you know a little bit of a weirdo as a leader there was a day where it was him and one other guy technically there was a day where it was just him but let's relate to when he

brought on people there was a hint a day when it was him and one other guy or two or three other guys and like yeah mark was probably still making a lot of hardcore decisions or whatever but it was this garage back door like let's throw shit against the wall and try it type movement at some point i don't know if it was employee 100 or employee 1000 or employee you know fucking At some point, they crossed the chasm and it now became a total new culture. And it's funny to me always, I've never looked this up, but the element of the word cult is the start of culture. And that's what everything becomes

because you suddenly have to act a certain way or be a certain way because that's how we're supposed to do it here or that's how it looks so now we live in this time where we're kids and young adults are more rebellious than ever and trying to change culture and things like that and trying to say like especially in the social media era it's all about being an individual it's all about being yourself and all that. But in reality, most of these people are trying to post the same types of things on social media that they think other people post and other people are going to want from them. And most of these people try to inject whatever culture the entire culture says needs to be the standard on whatever it is they do, whatever their company is, whatever their group is, their

team, whatever, regardless of whether or not that actually works or is going to appeal to the other people they work with. This is the problem we have. And then you want to drag that out and get to like what you see with some of these tech companies doing censorship, which I talk about all the time. And I'm only going to talk about more as time goes on here. That's where it comes from because they believe, oh, we are this type of company in this type of space.

So we must have to think this. And if we don't do that, people are going to say oh we are this type of company in this type of space so we must have to think this and if we don't do that people are going to say that we are no good yep no it's the other way around you're a little fucking sheep doing what you think the sheep are supposed to do every single big group loses this and then like you even look at like sports teams like you look at the bulls who the 90s bulls, who came back to fame during COVID because of the whole Last Dance documentary. There was an element to which Michael Jordan had a way of saying,

I wear the highway. No doubt about that. Let's not be misheard here. But there was also an element to which they took the game of basketball and said, I know everyone says you should do it this way. And obviously we have a ton of talent. We have the best player ever, so that helps. But we're you should do it this way. And obviously we have a ton of talent. We have the best player ever, so that helps.

But we're going to try it this way. And then even like some of the things, think about it. Jordan hates the one guy, Jerry Krause, who is the GM of the team. The guy's dead. He still hates him. And that's just the competitive in Jordan. But they needed each other. They needed each other because Jerry Krause hated that Jordan was that good.

But if he hadn't been that good, they wouldn't have been as good as they were and jordan hated that jerry wanted to put his own stamp on the team but if he hadn't they wouldn't have gotten tony kukoc they wouldn't have gotten some of these other players that he brought in there fuck they might have not gotten rodman right you know the in and these guys hate you know jerry kraus just died a couple years ago these guys hate each other from beyond the grave in one case. So funny. But they needed each other and they don't realize that it was because they offset that fucking, no, no, no, this is the only way it goes. Yep.

So here's a question for you. Do you feel like, and he's having success right now, so I can't even pretend like this is going to be a great point, but Brady Belichick had that. Where it's like everyone says, behind closed doors, they actually don't get along that much. Behind closed doors, there's this issue, that issue. Now, here's the part that's interesting when it comes to something like football, is that can be overcome because ultimately,

the coach is here, the player is here. It really does come down to, does the player make the play? Whether the coach calls here, the player is here, it really does come down to does the player make the play. Whether the coach calls the perfect play, if Brady overthrows someone, then it can't happen, right? A little bit different than business. If the manager says or whatever, the vice president says

this is what we're doing and someone goes Lone Ranger and does something else, their ass is gone. Gone. Gone. Gone. So I want to make a quick point to it. I just used the example of a play. If Belichick said to Brady,

you're throwing it to the 10-yard out, and then Brady airs it out to the left side and gets picked off, okay, they could bench him. They could lose that game. But at the end of the day, it wouldn't have ruined the Patriots' entire franchise. If a vice president says, hey, we're going to handle client scenarios this way, and one person goes off what we're supposed to do and goes, like I said, Lone Ranger,

that could become a news story. That could fuck up everything for that company oh i don't know company x has someone that's i don't like yeah i know what you mean whatever right and and then are they wrong they broke the the group thing this is what we do this is how it is for instance we're gonna censor i don't know how this works but let's just say twitter if you see this tweet you were told this tweet like this you were told to censor. I don't know how this works, but let's just say Twitter. If you see this tweet, a tweet like this, you were told to censor it. Censorship team. That's scary.

Don't say that. Censorship team. You know what I mean? So John's on the censorship team, and he's watching after everything in this kind of sphere. Let's just say it's sports. He's watching everything that goes on in sports, and he's supposed to censor, let's say, anything where one athlete is talking negatively about another athlete. He happens to love athlete A, and he's talking smack on athlete B.

He lets it slide. So now, is he wrong? Is this making sense the way I'm presenting? It's making total sense, and you're making more points. Keep going. You're making more points that you don't even know you're right so is he wrong because he broke what whatever i said i said twitter is he did he break what twitter wanted of him so is he wrong he probably gets canned right because he didn't follow what they said is the ideology that goes exactly that's the danger of any ideology yep it's it's and and that's that's where that's where the group think is man

i mean you use the brady belichick example let's look at that one first sure and like now people are trying to make the argument because like the patriots aren't having a good year that like oh it was it was and brady's playing pretty well in tampa bay that it was belichick who needed brady and brady didn't need belichick i think that's all premature that the patriots basically like kind of sold their roster the last couple years to try to keep the roster around Tom and it worked and now Tom got to Tampa Bay who was able to assemble this super team around literally just take ground value yeah right and and it's just it like it's one of those things so I I don't everyone wants to have the

instantaneous reaction argument there I don't want to do it belichick and brady are both guys who are my way or the highway yeah and so yeah they like i do my understanding like take it for what it's worth i won't say that there's any kind of ironclad sources on this is more a vibe i get from people who may know may not i don't know is that they do they did legitimately have a great relationship and then it just was so long that at the end you know it was like eventually it was like hey it's actually best for both of us if like you know you know tom you you go play with tampa bay and we'll call it a day like we had a lot of success but we got an impersonation even despite that it's a known fact that they would be like this still behind the scenes over the years because they were both competitive sons of bitches

but that was a way that they could offset each other and then inject a couple different hardcore cultures into the locker room where people might actually gravitate towards one or the other so there was more of a choice so you had the guys going over to at tom brady had the tb12 facility right there which was his fitness facility remember that whole thing yeah and what was it his his personal trainer like used to come to practice eventually eventually belichick was like i'm not letting him around and tom had like a fucking meltdown about it but he still had the building right there and he still had gronk coming over there and gronk this big beast stopped and i don't even know if i agree with this part but you know gronk stopped doing squats and stuff like the strength and conditioning team on

the patriots wanted him to do and he started doing all the bands and all that bullshit like hey it worked for him you know what I mean so obviously like he was still a beast and still played great so there was this these different cultures were colliding but because they both had so much power they were able to then create that where there was a little bit of choice in the locker room and players even if Belichick hated it players could gravitate towards what Tom did the building was right there the tb12 building was right there players could gravitate towards what belichick did too and i mean am i making sense with that no it's it's perfectly healthy yeah it's healthy yeah it can't just be see that's the thing people say the patriot way is actually kind of bullshit because it was the the patriot way involved really

two main drivers one being coach one being quarterback and they were it was give and take like i understand that belichick had to make the decision to put or keep brady in after bledsoe got hurt but you know as far as that goes that was at the very beginning though Brady wasn't right and then let's say Brady went off like he did and Belichick pulls him out I think everyone would have been like whoa exactly like you know he was never being pulled out that the decisions oftentimes make make themselves for the people who have to make them you just follow the vibes and obviously that worked out with the super bowl title i think was it it was the first year the second year like he literally replaced him i think it might even been the first year like he replaced blood so they won the super bowl but either way

it was within two years and like he led him to the playoffs and everything but it goes beyond all this i mean that's why i raised the point. Like, it's not just one thing. Right. And I think about this a lot because I've been talking a lot about the slippery slope with people. It's so relatable to everything. I mean, people are constantly thinking about civil liberties and rights now in light of all this shit. And so the Constitution and stuff around that comes up but one of the institutions that people immediately shut you down if you speak out against and i'm someone who goes towards that too and says like wants to shut it down right away too is if anyone says anything bad against the military it's like fuck you

like my first reaction is to say fuck you to somebody who does that. Right. Yeah. But I think about the military and I, and I have, I have this, there, there's two ends of it and pretty much all of it is positive. But what's the thing that the military leads with? What's one, there are several things, so I don't expect you to get it right. But what's one of the main things that they say if we don't have this there is no military and there's no organization and therefore we are not going to be powerful well the first thing i was i was thinking it was money but i mean well that's for anything but no no of course they need their funding all right i actually i

want to get this i'm talking about an attitude like something or a a a way of doing business the way that they work what what would you describe their operation just like you gotta have like a lack of remorse and just be a hard motherfucker that's the way i look at it i don't know maybe not wrong i'm talking about the chain of command oh okay yeah yeah so i it's hard to like describe i gotcha it was hard to describe what i was getting at so the chain of command is everything yep because they believe that the military that that's why they're all about respect and organization that's what makes the military great yep it does but it also does something because they they're all patriots serving the

country it's the ultimate thing and And I fucking love this country. And the fact that someone is willing to risk their life for the country is an amazing thing to me. So there's a deification of that. There's a deification of the flag and everything it stands for. And most of that, 99% of it, is great. Where I think about this is what it then stretches to in their life. Like all these guys who are in the military, they then end up, it's one of the best applications you can have to life.

It makes you disciplined. It makes you responsible. It makes you feel a higher call. Also, whether this is true or not true, but that's the perception. There's a lot of people that join the military and are fuck-offs and come home as fuck-offs. Some people, yes. But I agree with you. That is, like you said, 99..9 that's the person you get you know and by the way some of the people who do come

back like that sometimes it's because they're right they have they have mental problems because of what happened for sure things they had to do no doubt when they're in the military i mean they're either making their morning run or they're not or they're out you know like there's there's a level of discipline and so that discipline and respect and that chain of command that sets those schedules and sets what happens is one of the key tenets of the military that if you don't have it you don't have a military sure and this is where i think about it because it is taken to another level because of i guess they're always worried about the slippery slope. So I think about this a lot with like Edward Snowden and what he did. Because Edward Snowden, to be clear, he was in the military at one point, but like that's not where it mattered for him,

like in the context of how we know him. Edward Snowden, I've talked about him before on a podcast, but it's a story that just got, in my opinion, eventually ignored. It was not when it happened, but people just kind of went about life afterwards and were like, okay, whatever. But Edward Snowden was working – after working at the CIA, he worked at the NSA. So he was in these high agencies. Even if he wasn't then in the military like he had been when he was younger, he was working for the government. And so you look at the CIA. You look at the NSA.

You look at FBIbi it's very similar to the military in that there is the chain of command and there's there's ways to do they don't like cowboys they don't like stepping out on the side because by the way in fairness to them the scrutiny they get is insane it's never like oh tell us about all the things you did to save the day yesterday nsa it's like nsa what why did you fuck this up? And now you're going to have a Senate hearing about it. They don't have a cheering session in Senate. They come there when they fucked up. So, I get it. But Edward Snowden recognized for a long time he had access to Stellar Wind, which was the program that basically, to make it overly simplified,'ll put it in the show notes like what it was it allowed it was

where the government stretched laws illegally like straight up they changed the laws quietly on their own to match what they could do which then allowed them to violate all of our civil liberties to basically spy on us and store data on all of us regardless of whether we were even being investigated for anything let alone whether or not a judge viewed it as just cause. And this was going on for years. Dick Cheney was the one who really pushed it in the Bush administration, and it was on record. It had been going on since the Patriot Act, and they kept on changing the laws to get around it, and then it just continued into the next administration. And so Edward Snowden lived, I think he lived in hawaii okay okay lived

in a great place he was working for the government was paid very well worked for the nsa at the time his job at the time where all this happened was like a very easy job he said he basically just sat at a desk and and like you know did his thing and it was it was a simple job mindless for him at this point after all the shit he had done in his career, this one was easy. Right? He's got a woman he loves at home. A great life. Again, living in Hawaii. He had everything to lose.

Right. But what did he do? He came out and he took the risk, knowing, and the fact that he is living in asylum in Russia right now so he's just to be clear because by the way i'm 99 sure that i know this story like thoroughly but he was the ultimate whistleblower right he yes he moved first so what he did is he he contacted glenn greenwald and he contacted laura i think her last name is poetress laura was a she's like a documentary a documentary journalist who had been studying the NSA for a long time. Glenn Greenwald is like a savage journalist who's just all about getting to the bottom of it regardless of what the issue is. He's one of the better journalists in the world.

So he picked these people individually and he ended up flying to Hong Kong. Obviously, he didn't tell anyone he was going there and meeting them. And it's actually a documentary if you've never seen it. It's on it was through hbo i think but it was called like citizen four or something like that and they documented the the week of meeting with him in hong kong in the hotel and there they all thought including snowden that there was at least a 90 chance that he was gonna get taken into custody and extradited and therefore live in like Florence supermax prison for the rest of his

Life so he had he let and he couldn't tell his his fiance about this Otherwise she'd be complicit so he picked up and left his whole life to meet with these reporters to release this he lost Everything through it and and what he just sought them out to say hey I gotta tell he gave them all the documents and he redacted certain things to be able to not put certain American lives in danger in that case to try to try to do it the best way. But what he had wanted to do was he had gotten there was no ability. I bring this all up because he points out and he's right. There was no ability for him to or anyone to raise the issue and bring it public or better yet do the right fucking thing and get rid of it because in groupthink and in the chain of command when you

report doesn't matter how powerful you are unless you're at the very top even then there's a million people below you who report to a guy who reports to a girl who reports to a guy reports to a guy who reports to a girl who reports to a guy over and over again and it's this chain of command and because that's the way we do things here things that are just inherently wrong are kicking the can down the curb over and over again that's what people do so edward snowden looked at it and said we've been kicking the can down the curb on this for like 11 years and people's constitutional rights are getting violated every day and no one's changing it so at some point here the only chance to change it is to bring this whole fucking thing public and show the public what we're doing because that's the right thing to do for 330

million people who are being violated without knowing it so what did edward snowden do to do that he broke the chain of command because he morally realized this is wrong and no one's doing anything about it because why? The chain of command that is frankly critical for things like hey when the when our nation needs us we're there because there's this organization and this clear this is how we do things here type mentality this was the downside of it and so when he released all this stuff who were the first people saying he should be executed tried for treason all this shit the fucking military and the fucking people at these agencies who said he broke code and he broke the chain of command and he did everything wrong. No. He did the one thing that maybe he asked you to do

or other people in the agency felt and didn't ask or kept it to themselves because of the chain of command because it would be turned down. He did the hard thing, gave up everything. He wasn't just some guy who was like angry at the world. He gave up his entire life to do the right thing and to do it he had to break that sacred chain of command so to me i look at it and i go the slippery slope could be that oh he had to break the chain of command so what is that what does the next guy

do does the next guy do it on something less serious and all the way down to where people are just breaking the chain of command left and right in which case i take the military side of the argument but i'm not on their side of the argument because I go, he did the heroic thing and broke the chain of command and told us what was happening to us. And, of course, we just ignore it 70 years later like it didn't happen, which is disgusting. But at what point do you draw the line and say,

hey, anything above this or below this, you can break the chain of command versus you can't. And it comes back to groupthink because you're either one or the other. You're either the breaker or you're the follower. The complier. Complier? It's a confusing thing to think about, but do you understand what I'm saying? No, I absolutely do, and there's no right answer to it.

I think that for someone like that, see, here's the part that's tough. I've got to be honest with you. As someone that would not give a flying fuck if i was spied on or looked into part of me is like well you know what after seeing well you said cheney so was this pre or post 9-11 right post 9-11 can't even pretend like in that situation i would have personally i would have cared now you obviously dug into the constitutional rights and the piece of that and what you would probably say that is well then when does it stop right because then it's like i was supposed to 11 well that was the post next

isis thing that was supposed to right okay right part of me thinks that i might come off as just ignorant here, but I don't really care. Part of me thinks that national security is such a complex issue that at times, yeah, the constitutional rights, that's where our country was founded on, and obviously there's amendments and there's everything like that that can be put in to ultimately change that.

It shouldn't have been done in secrecy, but also, part of the war against terrorists is that we need to be a step ahead of them and not put it out in the public. I'm reading The Operator. We mentioned this last time we spoke. You're what? Reading The Operator. Oh yeah, the book. The book. Rob O'Neill

talks about Al-Qaeda at the time and he talks about how they studied Americans to a T, whether it was the way Navy SEALs would approach a room. They talked about slicing a room. Basically, when you walk into a room, you're able to cover 90, whether it was the way Navy SEALs would approach a room. They talked about slicing a room. So basically when you walk into a room, you're able to cover 90% of it immediately, basically up until this point, right? Because whatever place you come in and you cover, it's to the back 10%.

But anyway. Yeah. So when Ty, for people now watching, Ty was turning around and basically checking everything except directly behind him. Right. Well, not even that. It's my direct, whatever side I come in pointing to, it's only the 180-degree pie.

Got it. I can only cover to... You know what I'm saying? Yep. So what they would basically do is they would just have someone hang out in both blind spots, and that guy's getting... That's how so many military members got killed.

Anyway, the reason I brought that up is these guys, terrorists and people that hate our country are smart and they study us and if all of a sudden an amendment came out about this about spying there'd be some step in action taken on their end they're not dumb if they knew they know that constitutionally that that we couldn't be and i don't know the ins and outs of this you know far better than me but they know constitutionally that we're not able to be looked into this way or that way so that's the only part where i go i have to see both sides because i care about our security and and national safety more than anything especially as someone that would never spy on anything what are you gonna

see like in my phone so that's my only takeaway i'm not saying you're wrong i'm not saying you're right i'm just saying that's the only thing where i i say you know and i i know you're gonna say like a slippery slope of well if we allowed that to be a constitutional right that was broken well what's next and what's next and what's next but at the end of the day national security is like the number one issue of every, you know, every day since the 2000s. Yeah, yeah. Before then, but yeah. But really, like, to where terrorism, it wasn't just a country attacking us.

It was an ideology attacking us. That's my take. I could be wrong. This is a deep one. Because, like, I love when we get into the conversations where I got to, like and make sure I'm not confused on what part of it we're at. But yes, there is a level to which for the good of the nation, you'd be willing to give some things up. There are aspects of the Patriot Act, maybe not all of them, that I think in response to seeing guys tear down our buildings here everyone was cool with it comes back as you pointed out i would point out to the slippery

slope of government takes power right they're not going to give back yep and this is a prime case of what happened here because stellar win was birthed after the patriot act this is something and let's fact check that and everything but but this is something, I believe it was, you know, the Patriot Act was the bootloader to things like this. And so Snowden wasn't so much pointing out that like, oh, the government's just spying on you and it doesn't mean much for you guys, which for the average stranded 30 million people, it doesn't mean much. Does not. Right now. Right. He was pointing out it doesn't mean much right now because you always have to plan for potential tyranny. That's why these things are written into the Constitution and everything.

You have to plan for the fallacy of human beings. change and new norms are accepted you could call it the slippery slope there can be ways that people just take a little more and a little more and then expect a little more and a little more and a little more to the point where you lose yourself from what it is that made you great in the first place and as tech i think snowden would make this point but i won't speak for him and he can speak a hell of a lot more eloquently on this than i can so go look him up and like someone some of the speeches he's done in the past he's an extremely interesting guy but i think he would make the point of because technology is developing so far the power that data storage has and the power that it has towards things like machine learning and just a total change as to what the capability or even the existence itself of what technology is, is shifting so hard and is only going to continue shifting so hard to the point of technology getting to the singularity with us.

He is saying that if you allow this to happen now, you don't know how it can be used later. You don't know how it can be used when it gets into the wrong hands because shit has gone wrong for so long unchecked that's true and and right exactly it's easy to look at it through the scope of like you know i don't want another terrorist attack to happen on american soil or any place in the world so it's easy for me to put on those glasses and be like well you know what is it that big of a deal but you're right because there's no going back right it's like anything else once once once you take that step then there's only another step in our step there's no you know what by the way we saw what we had to see we're gonna backpedal everything now

do you know how cheney sold the iraq war to george bush have you ever heard that story i mean possibly maybe if i tell it because i think about this a lot, because I know a lot of guys in the military. I know guys who fought in Operation Iraqi Freedom. What was the second one? Fallujah. Yeah. Like all the big ones. And the thing is, once we were there, there were a lot of people there.

There's a lot of innocent people whose lives are torn apart. They never had a shot. Yeah. Because they're owned by by you know a sadistic motherfucker like saddam hussein or something like that so once you're there this is what people lose in this okay you want to make the argument that the war was was totally unnecessary i agree with you a thousand percent but the guys who fought there it's very hard for them to admit that or say that because once they were already there the things from a human

perspective that they related to and were responsible for, they felt the purpose in that because they became family with some of these people. A lot of these civilians who just wanted to live their life in peace, be able to have their businesses, be able to worship their God, like do all the normal things that people do, they couldn't do it and they viewed the americans who were there as the savior so that was that was the good to come out of the bad here but the way that we went in there obviously was the threat of oh saddam hussein a sadistic motherfucker everyone could agree with that potentially had or he has weapons yeah

and so the way that and it's all a controversy how that was brought out because the CIA apparently had no evidence of it, and that seems to be pretty clear at this point. dude like Saddam Hussein might potentially have weapons of mass destruction, capable of starting a nuclear holocaust. If I told you that he might have them and it was only a 1% chance, wouldn't you want to just make sure and go in there that he doesn't have them? Just go in there to make sure that it's a 0% chance and not a 1% chance? And he was looking at Bush saying, you're the president and the leader of the free world and if that one because remember the one percent thing had happened to him the the fucking buildings came down here and so you have a president who all presidents don't care who they are they're thinking about their legacy and they're in in this case you're in a corner a little bit you

already had one thing happen to you he traded on fear he traded on fear right there and so when you look at it from the perspective of how these things are sold and what they mean yes you talk about national security being such a core tenant and it is it is the if you don't have national security you don't have security you don't have a country i agree with you a thousand percent but the fear the fear of not having it is what drives every single decision i'm not saying it shouldn't drive some there is just like everything else all the hippies who are like no just it's whatever we'll be fine they're full of shit yeah but the people are like you must do this every single time or like we're dead we're done Whatever. It's fear. And it's not real. It's not real.

Because they take it to the extreme. Every single time. And why do you think. The greatest sales in the world. The one thing. The human beings. Can be tricked into doing something. Again and again and again.

The most common thing. The most common marketing tactic. Is fear. The fear. Not. The potential of gain. The fear of loss. Even when they sell you. That bullshit gain. Like. I make X amount of dollars on YouTube doing doing this.

They are still selling you. Watch those ads closely. They are still selling you the opportunity cost of loss and what that means for the fact that they are reminding you your life sucks right now and it doesn't have to. It is the most universal true it's the biggest universal truth in anything whether it's a product service whatever down to like toothpaste man like do you want to be the guy that doesn't have white teeth you know what i mean i know it's a really like no no that's a great example back example like with any product i mean it comes down to anything. Whole foods.

Do you want to be the person that's eating saturated fats? Or, but see on the other hand, McDonald's, do you want to be the person that's not enjoying this burger while they're at the skate park with their friends? Like it's just all fucking. Yeah. It's like a Black Mirror episode. Yeah. But you're right. Yeah.

It all does come back to fear. And I think that it's interesting because whether it comes from something like war like i'm looking at a mushroom cloud over here or something as as small as like yeah literally what you put on your toothbrush in the morning fear does hit something in the brain that just triggers whether it's a snap decision or what we think is a well thought out decision it's always there well you know the irony of this right here you're looking that was a test you're looking in my studio right here yeah so for people now watching i talked about this with mitch because he was curious about this the top picture is a nuclear bomb test post-world war ii in the pacific

that we ran you know at the start of the whole arms race and that was an island i forget what it's called it's like bektari or something like that it's no longer there we like bought the island and like it's gone the bottom picture is the picture of michelangelo's hand of god in adam but the hand of god is is replaced by a robot hand and so some people say like oh you're just fearful of the worst to happen in a weird way no it's kind of the opposite here because everyone and i understand it is leading with fear about artificial intelligence and technology and moving to the singularity and things like this and they're saying some people are like it's inevitable it's already too late like we don't know what this means for the future

of humanity all this fear fear fear fear fear i lead with having the nuclear bomb up there because you see the power of that thing that can take that can take countries off the face of planet earth when you use enough of them and i lead with it because everyone thought at one point in the 40s 50s and 60s that that was inevitable and that someone was going to prisoner's dilemma hit the button and then everyone was going to hit the button and we weren't going to exist anymore yep but we and it's still technically always a threat but do you hear about it every day no no we as with all the evil in the world and all the good somehow there was some sort of understanding that like that ain't it and it's not the same thing as machines but i have i try to have

that similar hope with machines so like right here is a prime example. I'm trying to lead with hope on this, not fear. I want a reminder of what can be, but I want the reminder to be led with what already was and where we want as humanity. Right. At the end of the day, here's the thing. The country, if not the world, is set up in such a way that unless everyone all of a sudden becomes a bad egg, that should never happen.

One person can't ultimately put that into place. And I want to take it back way, way, way, way long ago, but I'm sure without the literature and the media side of it, look at, I don't know, ancient Rome, right? When they looked at some of the people that were enrolled there, or Egypt, whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm sure at times people were like, this person is taking over here and here. They're going to rule the world. And ultimately, that was because of, I guess, force, military force.

It never got to a point where someone ruled the world, right? Well, that's the thing. It did kind of get to those points. There were empires. But they fell. Right. That's that's the thing. It did kind of get to those points. There were empires. But they fell. Right. That's what I'm saying. Yes.

And I agree with you. Yes. Because there is no, even right now, and it's because things exist, like the UN, it doesn't really matter what group we're talking about.

There's always that checks and balances, not just in our own country set up, but in the world in technology. If we started to, we're not the best example. If any country started to really hammer on that side, the left side of that picture, the rest of the world,

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wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, is that not are you sure about that because that's happening right now yeah i mean well i guess what i would more say is that wait ty this is important oh my god this actually you bring up a lot of shit where you don't even know you're doing it but you're tying it all together like you're in this is amazing that's why i'm here but this whole rabbit hole started with the chain of command and talking about like the example of like snowden literally breaking the chain of command and it was over something where data was being collected and then you talked about well there's some stuff i'm willing to give up for national security and i know you'll make the slippery slope argument etc well to come back to that this is the type of

scenario where there are people who don't have that best interest at heart, and there are countries sometimes and ideologies that don't have that best interest at heart. And so they are doing some of these things. And of course, I'm just not saying it right now, but yeah, what's going on in China, very few people actually understand because they've never looked into it, let alone been to China. I haven't been to China.

You opened my eyes to that uh to that app which one every person you told me in china had it oh we chat we chat yeah that blew my mind a little bit for a second and i think that i kind of want to give you the platform right now to explain that to people like myself a week ago who had no idea what that was so i think that that's your floor to kind of talk about it for a second this is just one one area but wechat is it is a social messaging connectivity app i guess is what i would call it in china it's owned by the biggest i think the biggest company yeah tencent which is like the biggest company in china which we could talk about a whole another way um i think they own it i'm not

entirely sure on that i should pull that up but wechat regardless there's over a billion people in china wechat has adoption of maybe like 800 million users or something like that and it's a place where people can instant message each other think of like dms and stuff like that they can send money think of venmo there's a level of uh social media think like facebook and stuff like that and then there's like video sharing it's like youtube and there's i believe there's a level of search engine in it but i'm not positive i saw there's like coupons you can get your coupons they basically have like some some groupon stuff in there they like know your

location you walk into a mcdonald's you also know a coupon will pop up on your phone it's pretty crazy and so all these people in that country in particularly have adopted it and they share their data with it and we complain about stuff like what snowden pointed out here but to your point we are not even the tip of the iceberg and i'm like almost lost where we are right now that this is how dense this conversation is so there might have been original points we brought up in this conversation that we didn't address but we're down the rabbit hole so fuck it let's just go with it but all these people are giving their data on so many different levels, money, thought, like communication through text, through search, sharing their location and their data and where they are through the social media, preferences, all these different things. And all the data goes to the company who is required to give it to the Communist People's Party of China, which is their their government which doesn't exactly care about human rights and doesn't exactly care about freedom of

their citizens and so that's just one example but this is where like a government like that seized control over time and then you know it's communism so it doesn't work and it's evil and it's tyrannical and it's i mean they do you they believe in like eugenics it's straight up like everyone has killed the word hitler and the word nazi because they call everyone that who they don't like this is the one country that you could legitimately say that out loud about and have the case behind you through like literally ethnic cleansing even to back up your argument go look that stuff up but they have allowed this to happen because they can the government can do it so on our end the argument

i think you brought up at some point there was like you know when you were talking about the national security and like well i'm okay giving it up the thing that a guy like snowden was looking at was a if we do where does it stop the slippery slope which we talked about and b how do we stop it from becoming eventually just the constitution's thrown out and they our government can effectively become that and then lead us that way and then at some point here i'm trying to keep track of everything we said but you also talked about like you know it's people will realize or governments it doesn't take just one bad person for it to happen and like shit will always be held in

check or i'm not i'm putting words in your mouth but something along those lines but the fact of the matter is there there is a campaign right now in china i believe it started in 2014 or 2015 tell me about this the other day this blew my fucking mind called made in china 2025 now when i say made in china 2025 what do you think i remember saying to you i was like oh that just means that they want to have like what i say more things made there sure which everything's been made in china for the last 40 years so what happens the world looks at that and goes oh well that's already the case like instantly people kind of turn a blind eye because they're like, that doesn't sound like anything. Here's what they were really doing.

China got all the manufacturing over the years, not just taking advantage of us, but taking advantage of every country around the world and making them beholden to them. And that's another thing I could go into, but I won't. And so they started to get really curious at the turn of the century with technology they were a third world country technologically in the year 2000 they were a third world country then what they did is they stole everyone including our ip for years our intellectual property and they effectively that's why you always hear these terms like oh it's the chinese google oh it's the chinese oh, it's the Chinese Google. Oh, it's the Chinese Facebook. Oh, it's the Chinese – when we're talking about companies over there. Because they literally just copied models we had here.

And by the way, communist Chinese government can block our models from being allowed in their country. That's why fucking Twitter isn't there. I don't think Facebook's there. All these – they have their own. And it's after stealing our stuff and then building on top of it and adding their own innovation so the china the made in china 2025 campaign was yeah it probably had aspects like manufacturing and stuff in there i gotta go fact check that and see what else they rolled in there but the key central tenet of it was technology and innovation they want to have

the money that rules the world that's why they banned Bitcoin and banned all these cryptos because they see what that is and they've invested billions to trillions of dollars. I don't have the numbers. I don't want to say what it is, but it's a lot into blockchain and into developing their own cryptocurrency for their own government

that they want to then use to devalue the dollar and take away all the international money and becoming the center of the thing that makes everyone survive, which is money. It's why they banned these social apps, like I pointed out. It's why they did all these things, because they want total control. And then with the Made in China 2025 campaign, on top of that, with the innovation specifically, they want to be able to build and improve in things like artificial intelligence and the things that allow machines and therefore them, the Chinese government, to control said machines to control the world. Now, what they don't get, the government doesn't get because they're sociopathic,

is that if you get machines to a certain point unchecked, they won't give a fuck what you think. It's a machine. It will outwit you. Just because you're fucking Xi Jinping sitting on your throne, banning images of Winnie the Pooh in the country. I don't know if you know he did that. He banned images of Winnie the Pooh because people said he looked like Winnie the Pooh online. But yeah, you know, this is a country we totally want to do trade with.

And all these other countries do too, and we allow them to exist like this. But they don't realize that if they're building the fucking killer if they especially if they get there first you want to know why data matters you want to know why governments shouldn't shouldn't be able to collect that shit unchecked without your constitutional rights and why it needs to apply in other places look no farther than that because that's how artificial intelligence evolves it evolves through machine learning which in english means that machines that they build whether it's software which is generally where it is it's not like it's fucking terminator walking outside it's software programs it's the mind right like you have a body if you didn't have a mind you'd be a vegetable and

you'd be in a hospital unable to do anything your mind is what matters they build the mind by using the data to build the mind out i mean you already see it on small scale in what we do and the world we live in. Something as small as, and I said this to you last time too, not on the air. I was like, can we talk about how when all of a sudden I click on something, something else that was in my life shows up in my life or shows up marketing-wise? And you're like yeah it's all machine learning it's all you know it's funny because sometimes i i like to think i'm intelligent and i feel like i have a small brain when it comes to that stuff because it's like how is it possible

but it is just data collection and programming right that's what it comes down to completely and when you put that in the hands of an entity that wants to have control, especially a government who can legislate and who can decide what goes or who can take power where they didn't used to have it through slippery slope metrics of just taking a little more ground over time and eventually becoming something that's bastardized from what the entire idea was. That's where you run into that problem. And so now here's the other argument. Well, China doesn't take the moral high ground because they don't care about their people they're evil their government i mean and and here's another thing that needs to be said we need to be very careful and we need to separate the chinese people versus the chinese government because the people it's not their fault it's the

government is comprised of very bad people and some people they brainwashed but the people it's not their fault it's the the government is comprised of very bad people and some people they brainwashed but the people are victims of this thing and what you don't want to do is just be like china and make everyone think all chinese people suck that is not the case at all we need to be really careful with that but the government sucks and i'll say it i i don't i will say that as loud as i can because it's true and people got to listen because they can take the high ground of well we don't have to care about our people so if we want to take their data we will and by the way we'll take data anywhere else we can get it too because you know we don't respond to the u.s people or the german people or the french people

or whatever we'll just take it wherever we want and use it for our own means and so then you look at the u.s and you say well we are above that we don't do that and this is where an argument like yours could come in because you're like well then we don't get access to the same things that they do and maybe we fall behind them in innovation which in many ways has happened so i understand that argument the problem is how do you and this is the moral dilemma how do you compete to stay ahead of evil without giving up the goodness in yourself being some sort of evil yeah and like people complain about google they complain about twitter they complain about these platforms and their data harvesting and what they do to us and all this stuff and they're right to do that i mean the fact that the government is bringing an antitrust suit against Google is huge and it's big.

The thing is, Google exists within our country and we got to fix it. But we're not going to have something to fix if we don't pay attention to how we're getting pillaged in other ways. It's why this whole TikTok thing taken forever is really pissing me off. And the fact that the election like overtook that and we're not talking about like while we're recording this the election happened i don't want to fucking talk about this shit this is fucking crazy but we at somewhere along the way the focus came off that forced tiktok sale and tiktok is still collecting data left and right the company bite dance was which is a Chinese company. And that data, which is video data, is going straight into the hands of the Chinese government.

They can deny it all day. The Chinese government wants it. They're going to take it. And if you want to know how important and how good video data can be, think about this. Back in 2001, do you know how we almost got bin Laden? And some conspiracy theorists are going to say we kept them alive or whatever pretend that's not the case do you know how we were how we almost got bin laden back then he was hiding in caves how do you get a guy in a cave when you

don't know where a cave is right you would think that they would study the videotape and they would they would use technology machine learning to evaluate the the wall the cave wall behind him for like phosphorus or elements or whatever and be like oh that must if there's this percentage of that that must mean that this cave is approximately located at this longitude and that latitude that was 2002 2001 what do you think a machine can do with every kid picking up their phone and giving data of wherever they are all the time all the time now why do you think the military where actually they were military members were some of the first people to adopt tiktok why do you think the military banned it a year ago they banned it because they said oh having our military members

take videos of themselves on our fucking bases probably isn't a great idea scary man you're not wrong you're not wrong and and honestly um who would have thought we'd get to this point it's funny because right now it's nove 2020. We first ever spoke about TikTok. It was probably March or April of 2019. I was new in the real estate world. And we were talking about it. And it's funny because I remember seeing a post by Gary Vee that day where he was like quadrupled down on TikTok. And now he is, right?

Quadrupled down on TikTok, TikTok, TikTok, TikTok. I'm sitting there like, yeah, man, I know it's just me. It's the last thing I need. And to this day, I've only ever had the app on my phone for a very short amount of time. And I actually forgot about this for a little cross business. And I had to leave. I was like, I don't need this. You were higher than high on TikTok.

I remember certain aspects. And I know you're going to be able to tell me other pieces. I remember you telling me one thing that was interesting about it was, it was like a time, like suck. You literally didn't realize how long you, you'd be on the app. And I'll let you respond to this. I'm just going to throw out what I remember. Remember you saying that you were able to include music and video and everything that, um, you wanted in one spot was able to be combined. It was having an Instagram story where you could bring in things from the outside into it without ever having to worry about the limitations of the app. It was truly limitless, I think was your word. And it ultimately intrigued me a little bit.

Didn't get me to a point where I got it. You obviously have now had a change in your mindset towards it is because you saw how powerful it became in that. Yeah. It's basically just like a, like opening the door to whoever, well, to China, I guess, to see what's going on over here, whether it's in this room on a military base or anywhere else. Yeah. And I was not, I had read like at the very beginning that it was a chinese company and i didn't like think about it but yeah i was on there when the 14 year olds were on there and nobody else and actually the only other people who were really on there were military members on bases who were bored it was it was them and 14 year olds and i

just saw that it had solved for the sins of vine and some of the sins of instagram which you just kind of pointed out with first of all vine had never business modeled out what they did that was an app that allowed you know the six second clips and everything you had to be creative it didn't allow flexibility of length and it didn't they just believed in a utopitarian world where they were just going to find a way to make money and they'll just let the app guide it tiktok on the other hand stretched out how long the videos could be it could be up to 60 it integrated pop culture with music and with the aesthetic by the way like how nice the videos looked so it took some of that without

the pictures that instagram model but it also allowed it it hid its addiction in the in the way that it allowed people to leave the app so one of the things about instagram people talk about how the instagram like like instagram doesn't really allow it doesn't have a ton of api capability i think that's like api yeah the buzzword they explain for it and so what that means is that as an example when you do a post can you put a link in your post no nope and how many links can you put in your bio and you have to say link in bio and get people to actually go off the post click your profile all the shit they have to do today, all the feed they got to scroll through. They got to click your profile and go to your profile and then click the link there.

As a new Lululemon ambassador, I know the struggle. I had to. I had to include it here somewhere. You literally just laid me up for it. But quite literally, I was saying that today, but I want to be serious. I was saying that today as I spoke about this. I got approved for this yesterday. I'm like, how the fuck, honestly, how the fuck is anyone going to go,

you know what, let me go from this story to his profile to click the link to find something I like to check out. It's a lot. It's a lot to ask. Ultimately, it's a challenge, but I think I'll end up making something out of it. But, yeah, it's unbelievable, man. think i'll end up making something out of it but yeah it's it's it's unbelievable man and and that's the thing and i'm curious i'm curious if you have any insight into it why i guess tiktok was the first group to do that and why instagram didn't catch up it's out

there now why is instagram still keeping it very much you stay in here you're in you're in the app just stay right here right in here the answer to number two is i don't totally know i could speculate but i don't know why instagram is keeping it that way yeah but the answer number one is because tiktok cloak the ability to allow you to go outside the app and let's define that so people understand the first thing i noticed on tiktok where i whoa, was they allowed you, I think you can disable it as a user, but very few, if anyone, do. They allowed you to download the video onto your phone and put it anywhere. And you know what else they did? They put the logo on the top left of the screen, TikTok, and then it works its way down to the bottom right.

And then the video ends with the person's profile picture for one second under TikTok. It's branded so you know where it comes from. And they invited it to be shared on other social platforms where everyone sees the brand and goes, I got to check this TikTok thing out. Now you'd say, well, why do they want people going outside their app? Because technically once they leave, they may not come back. They may get distracted by something else. The reason is they made the app incredibly, incredibly addictive in that they made the user experience immediately jump at you. When you open up the app, the videos with the sound start automatically, immediately.

And all it is, their main feed is simple. It's just scroll new video, scroll new scroll new video scroll new video and by the way they did it full 1920 by 1080 just like a full iphone picture as opposed to instagram that people still don't know the the metrics for igtv they still don't know whether their video is going to fit inside their stupid little fucking box and whether or not it's gonna it's to cut off at 59.9 seconds or at the full minute that might cut off their final line. There's no flexibility with it. Whereas TikTok allowed the flexibility. So they made it like, Hey, we're going to use the API thing to our advantage and allow people to leave our app. But when they're in there, we're going to make it extremely addictive

so that maybe they, they love that they the api capability to go outside the app but they'll still stay in the one thing that's alarming is this okay so i even mentioned earlier like oh with instagram it's easy to get caught in the rabbit hole and blah blah you get a notification people literally talk about tiktok like it's a drug. Like, for instance, I said to you, yeah, man, Instagram. Like, all right, you know what? I want to see what's going on, what's in the mix. I want to check up on my friends.

That's the main thing. It's really the reason I'm on there. I want to share what I'm doing and check up on my friends. That's not the case with TikTok. It's like this entertainment suck. And that's the thing that's scary is as someone that really doesn't does not use the app i talk to people that do and they literally talk about it as like oh you know i stayed up till 2 a.m last night watching tiktoks i can't say i stay up till 2 a.m watching instagram videos or pictures or looking at pictures because the reason why and

this kind of goes back to what you said it's easy to kind of disengage from it. Like, ah, I'm scrolling pictures and I'm kind of tired. And honestly, the next picture doesn't really matter. Versus, wow, I'm stimulated, video, bam, I'm stimulated, video, boom, boom. Like that's the way you're describing it. I can see how people kind of get down a rabbit hole here. Yeah, I just pulled up something behind you while you were going there. That's why I was sick of it. No're good because you you just you hit something that's

critical when you go to tiktok's wikipedia page now obviously it's been mass adopted in the u.s and it's had all kinds of stuff around it it's a fairly long page it's probably i'm not looking at instagram's wikipedia page right now but it's probably not that long but it's long and one of the things this used to be a very short page i just saw the word isis like like dude literally a year a year ago hold on one sec a year ago this was not that long of a page but there was one thing that they had in there that was that stood out to me right away maybe it was like four or five different um paragraphs that made up the entire page but what they did is they had this data on things that were already studied and it's under here

where it says addiction concerns and i remember and it's a little longer now but this was out there back then and this is right when i was first i saw this right when i was first trying the app maybe like april, something like that. But it said, some users may find it hard to stop using TikTok. And this is obviously all cited within Wikipedia. In April 2018, an addiction reduction feature was added to Douyin, which is the, that is the Chinese version of TikTok. Is it called, like, is it seen as acting? Vaguely, yes. of tiktok is it called like it's the same exact thing vaguely yes this encouraged users to take

a break every 90 minutes every 90 that means they were already expecting to roll them in for 90 minutes later in 2018 the feature was rolled out to the tiktok app which is the one in the u.s but this is that many were concerned it says here here, it just goes on to say, excuse me. Many were also concerned with users' attention spans with these videos. Users watch short 15 second clips repeatedly and studies say that this could report, could, what does that say? Report to a decrease in attention span. This is a concern as many of TikTok's audience are younger children whose brains are still

overdeveloping. Now, it said something else on here originally as well because that point is entirely correct it makes us want to expect that we get the next thing right away and these young impressionable minds want it and they're already trained in other social platforms like instagram stories and snap stories to do that but it also what it had said was it included that users could use the, I'm paraphrasing here, users could use the app for a very long time and not realize the time had gone by. Yeah, the time suck. That's what I was saying. Yes. Terrifying.

And it's terrifying for a few reasons, right? So the first piece obviously goes on to what you were saying with the data collection. Terrifying. Terrifying also in that wherever you are in the world and you're consuming this, it's certainly, and I don't think there's probably a lot of arguments, it's certainly not productive. So from a societal standpoint, right? And this is probably the reason I'm really glad I don't have this app.

Is any social media productive? Well, yes, I actually think so based on what we were talking about earlier. I truly think that for certain businesses and industries, it could be productive. And I actually talked about this yesterday. I talk to sports psychologists a lot because I like what he gives to me.

I try to give some of it back to my guys that I train and just perspective. But he basically explained that social media shouldn't be something that they're like, I spent 20 minutes today on Instagram. Now, if you spent two hours, okay. But if there's a piece of that, it's like it's entertainment. It's like turning on the TV, whatever. It's like for the longest, for you know point in time uh humans have

been around we find entertainment in some way this is different because it's something that you lose yourself in i've never once told myself like even in college like when i had to study for something like oh my god how the hell is it 2 a.m and i've been on instagram for three hours no you haven't other people have though but but i guess this is like times 50 yes i and like listen so and it comes down to who you are as a person i'm sure some people can open tiktok look at one video like that and close it but if it's raising concern to a point where it's being recognized over and over and the actual app in china was encouraging people to take a break after 90 minutes and that's encouraging doesn't make you right yeah fuck it because they don't want their The actual app in China was encouraging people to take a break after 90 minutes.

And that's encouraging. It doesn't make you, right? Yeah, fuck it. Because they don't want their people addicted to it. In a way. Not all of them, at least. It's just that that perplexes me to a level that kind of hurts in the stomach. It's like, especially because, you know, I care about my little cousins and the younger kids i train and everything i've i've noticed it in such a way

with some of the behavior of like the younger kids i work with or you know kids i train as little siblings which like it's almost like next level of like you never fully have their attention and that's scary too i feel like i'm a person that has a hard time being present but it's because my mind's on like business my mind's on this it's in that i don't see you mindlessly scrolling much at all so around you so you're constantly you but that's the thing you have that distraction of you're constantly doing something yeah people are relying on you. Not everyone has that. I do mindlessly scroll.

For instance, my screen time. I might have done this last time. My screen time for today is at 10 hours and 26 minutes. 10 hours and 26 minutes. Holy shit. Yeah. But guess where the majority of that's going to be? I'm already going to tell you.

It's in my text. Because that's my entire life. Yep. Your business, yeah. I was on the phone today for three hours and 30 minutes and i was texting for two hours and 12 minutes yeah see and that but that's the thing and especially how you're using it you're not you're not texting people left and right going yo what's up you check this thing out your your business that's where you were complaining before we started the podcast you were actually complaining about the fact that a lot of your kids text you even though you have a system set

up online for them to schedule like a calendar and it's like and it's not even their fault it's like that's what they were used to with me and what can i do tell my most reliable long-term clients don't text me anymore you have a personal line don't text me anymore can't do that and i care about them this goes back to i do care about them and I kind of want to keep up With them, but then if you literally look at it, it's a breakdown Phone the messages and the next the very next thing is Instagram 38 minutes for the whole day. I was on my phone for 10 hours and 27 minutes. I spent 38 of that Yeah On Instagram and I guarantee have that was answering DMs on Athletes United.

So, like, that's the issue. And that's work, yeah. Yeah. And, like, as you scroll down here, it's just, like, other, like, little things. By the way, 20 minutes of this, headspace, meditating. It's just, I guess the point, again, I'm not sitting here like I'm a fucking hero, but the point is that, like, there's a piece of that that's terrifying, because also the younger generation doesn't think like that.

You think they care about their screen time? Hell no. What do you notice in your kids' attention span-wise? Singing out of nowhere. Singing and dancing out of nowhere. Especially the real little kids. I'll be having a conversation with Johnny. You know what you could have done that play?

I'm looking over and Billy's doing one of those stupid tiktok fucking tiktok dances i hate to call it stupid but like i'm sitting i'm also you you could literally probably loop me trying to do a tiktok dance and make fun of me for the next year but i'm serious it's and you know where else it came in which i also found to be almost like this it was like it was here and now it's kind of gone it's like fortnight was like that for almost like this it was like it was here and now it's kind of gone it was like Fortnite was like that for kids where it was like parts of that were like it was like a time suck

because you're like the games were very long and you don't realize that like you just played a game for one match if you make it far for 45 minutes why do you think the people who design these things don't let their kids play them? Why do you think Steve Jobs didn't let his kids have an iPhone?

Yeah. And Steve even knew. I always wonder what he would think today, and I think he would not be very happy. But there was still a level to which he understood, like, hey, there's some of this that potentially is a Pandora's box, if not great. And I always, that's why i'm always curious to talk to

guys like you who deal with that on such a personal level because yeah like one guy i know he's the headmaster one of the greatest people i've ever met just the nicest guy he's the headmaster at one of the oldest schools in the united states one of the most prestigious high schools in the United States, like the kind of place where, you know, if you're pulling up in a Mercedes, like something went wrong in your life. And, you know, he's not, I love how down to earth this dude is

when he's constantly around technically a cop that's not, but he cares so much about the kids and was admitting to me openly that it is so difficult getting ahead of the trend to figure out how to help them and no one's paying attention to it. And he specifically, the number one thing he would hit on is the attention span. He said, we are still teaching these kids out of textbooks when they are living in a world where they get all kinds of information and they expect it inside of 15 seconds he goes we're sitting there telling a kid not to use their phone we sound like the get off my lawn guy that was the honestly the most pinpointed perfect thing you've said uh maybe since i've known you i'm not even kidding because you're fucking right and listen

i had trouble reading out textbooks for my mba after at my undergrad they gave me an ipad for my books you know quick you can scroll through shit my books were all on an ipad then when i had class online for my mba still had that hard physical book and in an online textbooks never felt the same because with that you're on a computer and it's not the same it's still the same concept though you know what i mean though like at least with the ipad and you're talking about the usability there which is interesting because that's even like six levels down and that affected your attention span like the medium through which we're using You were using it like physical book or literally on with everything else like with all your apps and everything on the ipad Yep, take that all the way the highest level and he's talking about the method through which you teach you can't expect anymore

I mean, I remember when when we were in middle school in high school It was like, you know an hour class was like a fucking lifetime. Do you know what this feels like for these kids now? I just saw something. I'm serious when I mean this. Let's see if we're on the same page with this. Think of all the things you had to study in high school. Because I know we used to have to.

I doubt it's still a thing. What kind of quiz was your least favorite to study for? And you probably had them fairly often. I'm going to say it and you're going to be like, yep. Say it. Vocab quizzes. Hear me out. I bet today, if you need kids to remember,

I remember we used to need to know like 50 vocab words. If you gave each one of those vocab words a six second or a 10 second video and a dance with it, guarantee kids would score so much higher than if you put them on flashcards the way we used to study. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. Take that one to the bank.

I guarantee it. I agree a thousand percent. It's associative memory. If, if whatever, let's just think of, give me your favorite word right now. You have a million.

My least favorite word. Unprecedented. Sure. So you put that with this dance and and the person's doing that dance and saying the definition guaranteed these kids remember it whereas to me i would have been like uh i i remember to this day the bill of rights song i can sing you the Bill of Rights right now. Do it. I'm not going to do it. Do it.

No, you have to. You can't just announce that you can do something and then not do it. Can you just put it up? Pull it up? The Bill of Rights song? Yep. The Bill of Rights song. The Bill of Rights in a song with...

You remember those old cartoons you used to have to watch about America? I'm a Bill or something? The Bill of Rights song. Go ahead. You remember those old cartoons you used to have to watch about America? I'm a Bill or something? The Bill of Rights song. Go ahead. What grade did you learn this? I was in 7th grade. I forget her name.

My history teacher. Go ahead. It's like I'm a Bill. Nope. Boom! I'm just a Bill. It's the third one? Yep.

I'm just a Bill. What is the... 8.2 million views. How old is this? Eight years! Did I not just hit the nail on the head i'm telling you i was in seventh grade oh my god all right let's check this out now if i remember this was a whole um like episode but then like he breaks out into song and he sings what it's like to be the bill of rights this is just like This is just like the insurance. You don't remember these?

No. Oh, dude. These were awesome. This is the song? Put it on full screen. Yep. You sure gotta climb a lot of steps to get to this Capitol building

here in Washington. Well, I wonder who that sad little scrap of paper is. Oh, my God. I'm just a bill. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. On Capitol Hill, yep. I remember this. Now, this one...

You're not going to sing along, Ty? No, so there's actually a different part this way sings the like being racing he sings one like the actual like like I'm a turn off but we get it yeah so the point is that like you know I learned even that way through song but I guarantee today that you put if you paired it with a quick video because that's what they're so used to that's how kids will learn but you also

so this is another Pandora's box because it comes down to context we're living in a world of 30 second clips or 15 second clips and quick bites of stuff to borrow the phrase of R.I.P. Queeby, who literally named it Quick Bites and changed it phonetically to Queeby.

It's probably the worst name I've ever heard in my life. Neither here nor there. But anyway. How bad is that? I did not know that. I actually knew nothing about that app when I first heard it. Mitch was, they were like a last-minute client of Mitch's, and he was like, just a case study and whatnot to do.

But anyway. Jesus. They, anyway, people want things that fast. That's why they pay for the guys who tell them all the information in one or two minutes. And in a way, if you can get all the information that quickly, awesome. But what we lose is context. And that's why I think Bill Maher said this. People's attention spans are either and it's a little bit of an exaggeration but he said they're either three seconds or three hours and it really depends on the medium yeah because guess what people's attention spans are not three

hours not even adults it's not but if you have that that's why like rogan is so big if you have a long-form podcast where people can only put one sense to it, like in this case, stick it in their ears and listen to it. Even if they have the YouTube video up, they have it up in the background. They glance over when they want to, but they're just listening, and they can go about their day. And maybe if it's conversational, they don't have to pay attention like a lecture. They can zone out for a minute and then come back in and kind of understand the context.

That is where in conversational format like that, which doesn't feel like it's being dictated to you that is where people can learn more because they're learning through experience of the people talking and they're learning through conversational methods where they feel like they're a part of it so i always felt as though the class i learned the most in about anything was my debate class because it was it was just that. Now, there were monologues, right? You had two minutes of uninterrupted speak. I think it was like a one minute,

then a 30-second rebuttal, then the other side got one minute, 30-second rebuttal, then two minutes of... Whatever the format was, even that was a little bit... And I was like, oh, you know what? And that's how I learned about this policy or this.

And it was actually an opinionated debate. Because people are talking it out with reason. Right, exactly. Because you knew after side A said something, side B was going to get their turn versus shoving it down people's throats on a textbook or a lecture. And yeah, Jimmy might ask the occasional question,

but Jimmy always asks questions so when he raises his hand for the sixth time in the class you're like let me check my phone i don't give a shit what this guy has to say again if i were this is gonna open up a can of worms but if i were a foreign country that had an interest in america not being as powerful one of my first priorities would be to take our youngest generations and make sure we lock them into addiction to certain things which let's be honest here it's not like the main drivers that did that are the social media platforms which are american companies so that's not foreign companies let's be clear but i would take advantage of spaces where there can be addiction

and i would put the focus on things to take away from development and i would put it towards things where you also took away as much as you could you you pitted people against each other and took away the idea for being able to have a free exchange of ideas and have conversation around things and so i wonder about like i already see this playing out with our oldest generations some of the nastiest people online are fucking 65 years old sitting on facebook literally like some of the nastiest ones or twitter like go look at it it's real and then you know you have nasty 30 year olds and nasty 20 year olds but the youngest kids who grew up with this in that reality, I wonder about their ability to – like some of them to step back and be like, hey, I'm thinking this way right now. And I don't know if I'm really thinking that way.

I may have just been told that a million times. But it comes back to – I mean all of this ties back to the idea that people are concerned what other people are going to think about them. That's what social media is built off, and that's unfortunately what free exchange is built off of and so especially when you pack it into 15 second punches or 60 second punches on tiktok and they're just repeatedly looking at this stuff and repeatedly looking at what's trending and therefore what's important and what what's important to other people so therefore should be important to them they lose their own like concept of like what's important to me in a lot of ways and take away individuality where it can exist another piece of this too

is the exposure that kids are getting the things they normally wouldn't if it wasn't for this now when i was like 10 my my computer had a like blocker called net nanny okay seriously i remember these things net nanny so you know whatever whatever 10 year olds would want to look up you can use your imagination we get blocked and i remember like literally being like wake up now nanny blocked it guess again look at that on the next thing the things and again this is all from what i'm hearing the things that kids are getting exposed to now with free reign is crazy i'm a firm believer honestly and i mean this in like when people freak out on others for like not watching their language in front of kids it's like they are going to hear this one day okay but let me keep but let me keep rolling

because that's that's not really that big of a deal like if you really get that mad at me saying fuck in front of your kid i'll do my best not to say fuck yeah i train kids all the time i know i have a little bit of a loose mouth if i honestly felt like it was a problem i don't think i would i think i'd be really really looking after now of course i try to watch a little bit but whatever now yeah there's there's still a level you edit it but it's like yeah it's like once in a while and that's the thing like and kids are all about what they're trying to be treated like adults too right so hear me out on this i'm hearing kids who are 10 years old saying things that they saw on tiktok that i'm like okay

i know i wasn't exposed to that until college or post-college or at least high school that's the scary part that's not the same way we talked about it's still up here where they're talking about the the let me read it real quick whose brains are still developing is the way they said it yeah on the children yeah children whose brains are developing. You all of a sudden pump something down that might be rated M for mature. I'm not talking about when we were kids and you'd play Grand Theft Auto when you were 10 and you'd see a video game gun.

You can see some real shit on there from what I've heard. It's very uncensored, right? Very uncensored. Well, minus when it's very uncensored right like very uncensored very that well minus when it's like politically motivated in china's interest or against their interest that's where it gets censored but go ahead there you go but then you look at that and that can't be good for development and that's something where like listen i'm their psychologist someone smarter than me is going to figure this

one out and really and they probably have spoken spoken spokeoken. Yeah. Well, I'm really like, sometimes I'm in here. They've probably spoken on it. But in all reality, that's the part I'm concerned about. It's like, just as much as like the stupid dancing, it's like, what are these kids seeing? And what's it going to do? I got to be honest. One thing that I know that these kids are exposed to are like innuendos about like drug use and like how so so like i heard like a 10 year old kid that

i not that i trained but that um i was coaching a team and this could actually play for a different team but talking about tiktok he saw him like some sort of like reference to um to like cocaine and this kid was literally 10 years old and i'm just like i literally can tell you i did not know what cocaine was when i was 10. let alone like seeing tiktok's like joking about it yeah yeah it's it's just like that's that's the thing though you can't fight the crusade of information incoming like it's gonna happen you know and there's a level to which you want to stunt the development at a younger age however you can and that's where i empathize with parents and and how hard that must be but there's also a level to which you have to change standard you have to accept that

the world has changed and you have to figure out how to adjust in the best way so that you become morally the best type of kid. And I guess the argument to that is like, okay, but when we were kids, Scarface was probably on the TV while we were flipping channels. So, you know, sometimes when I say things and I actually hear them back to myself, I'm like, all right, maybe I should take a step back on that. But I think it was just more alarming to hear the medium in which they got it. Yeah. And I don't know how the age bracket stuff works. I know YouTube had all kinds of litigation

and still does sometimes and had to really up their standards of kid-friendly versus not. But what about the kids to figure out how to go in there and put their birth date as something different? Well, it's like the same thing. What about the kids, when we were kids, if you found out your parents' password on Comcast,

when it was still just comcast um and then got into like the the blocked channels or the blocked you know content or whatever yeah it's and but even more than that that's a closed channel where there's a limited number to choose from with the internet there's no limited number man if you figure out how to use google and you can get around certain things the world is your oyster and it's it is you cannot fight the for the more free exchange of more information over time and you have to learn to adjust to it i just made that point a couple minutes ago but it's like that's what it is and and we need to we need to realize that and i think a lot of parents have had trouble adjusting to it yeah i i gotta be honest i mean i talk about this sometime you know sometimes with my girlfriend even just i just think about this like it's a

scary time to have a kid and like here's the scary part right if i had a child today you know in 2020 by the time he's 10 what the hell is this gonna look like i mean 2030 2031 i told you earlier i have a lot of hope for things i recognize that anyone who says it's all gonna be good man we'll figure it out no problem don't it. And in some ways, that was a little bit your attitude on the national security thing, which is why I was coming back at it. Which is good, and that's why we're here. didn't say that sadly i wasn't that surprised but it still like blows my mind to think about it how many people were blown away and shocked by the social dilemma movie i wish i saw it man well listen it's extremely well done i am thrilled they did it because apparently people needed to see it i don't know if they're going to change but people needed to see the basis is about how like we just consume and we're addicted yeah and why it's designed that it's literally set up that way they take

you in the inner world my thing was incredibly well done glad they made it i watched it once i don't need to watch it again and i didn't need to watch it before i knew that shit already yeah but again that's because i was doing the research most people they're just sheep to the flock here and they don't think about what they're doing even if they know like in the back of their mind like social media makes me miserable they don't ask why and then they don't go to fucking google and ask why i mean you might as well use the tools to learn about yourself right so i saw this and i'm like no this is not shocking and i wonder if shit is going to change i've heard over like 40 million people have seen this in this country so now we have mass adoption of like people seeing it so let's see if they actually change

because the bottom line is like these and if people haven't seen that documentary i think we just touched on it but just to be very clear it's made by people who have worked inside the social companies inside companies like google and things like that and talk about how this was designed. Like you heard me talk about Sean Parker earlier with the Facebook example and how he was saying like they, all these social companies that started back in the day, they wanted to hit you with a dose of oxytocin over and over again. This actually puts context behind that and tells you the story of how it happened and how it progressed. And it's all based on the fact, again, this is like, you know, I make the argument for why capitalism is the best system all the time, and I will make that argument. But every system has its downsides. And this is a downside,

because in capitalism, companies are incentivized to compete with each other. And so they compete with each other. And guess what, if they want to take the moral high ground on some stuff, they may die. Because other people are going to be incentivized if they have free reign to completely do it to make the worst thing if it makes the most money because they're also as a public company their job yep is to make sure the shareholders are taken care of it all it all loops back into that and i think that you know this is probably just the start of the conversation with it but what what i am very interested in this is outside of the social dilemma but what i am very interested to see is okay social media is one box right where we feel as though we are like kind of controlled kind of um not just addicted but like

like it's like a magnet right we're drawn're drawn to it. There's going to be another pocket or box. And I don't know what it is. I kind of feel like in a way, for some people, it's like for a while, it was like unhealthy foods. This might be getting kind of out there. Keep going.

So like, for instance, I don't know about you, but I remember a time, it was kind of before that Super Size Me movie, where like McDonald's twice, twice three times five times a week was like a pretty american norm we're like ah busy families i don't know throw a fucking happy meal in the back for the kids and whatever and everyone tell people what supersize me was oh sorry so supersize me basically was a documentary that i think you probably had to watch in school. Morgan Spurlock. It was like 2006, I think. Yeah, so it was basically just about a guy who literally, McDonald's used to have what was called the Super Size Meal.

And it would be like the extra, extra large fry and the quadruple motherfucking burger and everything. But wasn't it an experiment? Well, this is what I'm saying. No, no, no, no, no. That was something on the menu. So, for instance, you would be at McDonald's and they'd say, do you want to supersize that? And he would say yes. Or you would say yes. Right, but his whole premise was he wanted to... He took the supersized meals and basically what he did is he ate only McDonald's exclusively

for, I believe, 60 days. Yeah, 30 day period. 30 days. From February 1st to March 2nd of 2003. He ate nothing but McDonald's for every meal. Now, one thing I want to touch on before we dive into this. It was very, very normal in my life and a lot of people's lives to eat McDonald's or any fast food multiple times a week. Now, here's what I want to say.

Did our parents in the back of their minds go, this probably isn't the best thing for my son or daughter to be eating multiple times over? Probably. Honestly, probably. The same way I'm like, there's probably a better use of my time than social media. But it was the ease of it.

There's McDonald's everywhere. If you live in a large city like New York, like, come on. It was the ease of it. The kids were happy. It tasted good. Same way I was. You know what? Well,

I like some pictures or whatever. And at the end of the day, there was no big attention brought to it. Now, did we need supersize me to tell us all that shoving fries in our mouth? Like he's doing on that cover is bad. No, we certainly did not.

But it's all of a sudden when there's one thing, a documentary, something brought to it. All of a sudden everyone goes, one thing, a documentary, something brought to it, all of a sudden everyone goes, wow, wait. It was a documentary. Right.

It was, what was the runtime on this thing? We can see it right now. 98 minutes. So inside of a hundred minutes, people could get an encyclopedia's worth of information with visual evidence of it, of a guy who was living through it

and showed you him working with doctors beforehand and afterwards and seeing his body shape and everything where they could understand this and and he one thing that's that's important to know here and they say here he was a he was in shape he was a very you know like above average person when it comes to fitness six foot two 185 at the start let's scroll down and see yeah i think he would didn't he put on like 40 pounds or something like that huh uh how much uh he gained 17 pounds in 12 days hold on on. He gained... Day 30. After five days, he had gained 9.5 pounds. And what was the total... Hold on, hold on.

Why does it not even say the total weight? That should be like... Hold on. Why is Wikipedia burying that? That's like a little conspiratorial to me. Hold on. The fact that they're burying the total amount of weight. Hold on a little bit.. He gains 7 and a nutrition

which weighs identical volume. By the end of the month he weighs about 210 pounds and increases about 24.5 pounds. There it is. Almost a pound a day. 24.5 pounds. Eating McDonald's. Remember his

insulin levels and shit? He basically gave himself diabetes. I'm not even kidding. So the point of what I'm trying to say here is there's these boxes in culture or in society more so where we recognize that something's not great for us, but it's easy, convenient, nice to have, tasty. And we kind of just go, huh? Acceptance. And then something brings an attention to it. Hey, you should really look into this.

I think it's at the box office. The $22 million. Can you scroll up? Yep. So $22 million in the box office. I don't know what that... It did so much afterwards in DVDs. I don't know what that... It did so much afterwards in DVDs. I don't know what that equates to.

To the amount of people who have probably seen this. It's staggering. You said 40 million have seen The Social Dilemma. And that's been out like a month and a half. But now, do people still stuff their face with McDonald's? Yes. But there's probably a group of people that... Me personally, I rarely eat that stuff i haven't

i couldn't tell you the last time i've been to a mcdonald's and couldn't tell you that could now hold on a second though sure because part of it was it was called supersize me which was based on mcdonald's lingo and the entire documentary was aimed at mcdonald's now does that mean that things like burger king and wendy's and stuff would definitely hurt too because people associate those right away with it yeah but where'd you say when we were talking I can't remember if it was before the podcast or on the podcast or something but you were talking about like eat clean bro and how it saves you time and stuff because you're like I would just go to like Chipotle all the time but now I honestly I I would be willing to and I would actually love to to pull this up here

even if we have to take a little uh like pause compare a chipotle burrito bowl to a mcdonald's big mac just literally type in chipotle burrito bowl versus mcdonald's versus mcdonald's big mac okay boom go all right so what is and you're looking for the nutrition right yeah i'm just curious but i guess it really comes down to what you put in your burrito bowl but yeah so let's let's start with like quora all right here we go no screw up screw up i saw calories so chicken white rice pinto beans sauce the sour cream cheese a thousand calories 1045 for the burrito bowl yeah and the big mac only has 540 but now let's give a little context the bit if i remember correctly i'm not looking at this the big mac

it's like it does not satisfy you right so you are immediately hungry afterwards whereas the burrito bowl does have things like pinto beans fresh tomato salsa rice rice so it has some things that are and chicken you know it has some things that are decent for you that may satisfy you but the point is yeah like you're having one maybe midday random meal and you're taking in that case it said 1045 calories you are literally taken for the average person who might be like 510 and and 170 or whatever you are literally taking in like half the caloric intake you're supposed to have for the day and it's high in sodium which makes you it does still make you hungry not like a big mac would but that's the point and like people respond to stuff where it's visceral and

that's we're talking about where the movie officially the supersized me came out in 2004 i'd said 2006 but it was 2004 yep this is before the social era this is before the really really short attention span era and everything but it's still packed an encyclopedia worth of issues into an interesting case study that you watched and got invested in and learned in 98 minutes that this is bad for me right and like i said people recognized it and some people may have gotten turned off to the idea of fast food forever really really really you know took a couple steps back on how often they consumed it now what i think is it's kind of like the flow of

society there's there's things where it's kind of like the flow of society. There's things where it's like a box, like I said, where people go, oh, I do this, and they kind of ignore it. And then something comes out. Oh, this is bad. Next thing, social media. Oh, this is bad. And there's going to always be things like that. And I'm curious if that's just human behavior, if that's just how society kind of moves along like i don't really know the answer to that but there's going to be another thing that's coming after

social media there is oh 100 yeah and social media will be old in 10 years from now i think i just don't know what it will be you never do i mean people looked at social media brought in internet 2.0 right and they say we're at the frontier of internet 3.0 whatever that is right now so are we at the point where like you know internet 2.0 was kind of birthed with like a myspace which was the precursor to all this are we at that right now and if we are what is that thing that is the myspace for the next thing i don't know podcast no um no it's not not. I'm kidding. No, really, though. I mean, I can't even pretend like I know the answer to that,

but it's just intriguing. And I think that there has to be, like I know you said, yeah, well, we already knew that before I watched The Social Dilemma, but there has to be something that throws it out there, or it just never, like it just kind of keeps going off into that path. Like we might have recognized it. Not a lot of people do. Here's the difference. Sure.

What is McDonald's? Food. What do you mean? Exactly. It's food. You eat it. You shit it out later. It's something you do three times a day.

It's a necessity to survive. Would you agree that there are a lot of different options for food out there? Yeah. Would you agree that you may go to a restaurant that only a thousand people on the face of planet earth know about or you may go to a restaurant like mcdonald's that maybe you know a billion know about yeah right you see what i'm saying you have choice right it doesn't you go where you enjoy and you can bring people there and they'll go with you like oh where oh you want to meet there bet sure with social media these are the public squares

you look at it effectively facebook slash instagram which are owned by facebook obviously so we'll just for the sake of platforms call them one right twitter youtube which is owned by google and you know we could go off on snapchat whatever the whole point is they are a place that you go to on your phone and you connect into with the expectation that other people you know and other people you don't all go there because it's a community that has consistency. There's not a thousand, a million different Instagrams that people go to that are of differing size. That's fair. And so then they have, this is where the comparison culture comes in because then when you go all to one place, that culture,

we talked about cult talk earlier, the word culture, it creates standards that then everyone from every background in some way has to follow. That's fair. And I never really thought of that, honestly. That is, I mean, I guess the piece of it

that you just brought up that I didn't really think about is there are so much more choice when it comes to the first piece I mentioned yeah if I guess if Instagram, Twitter and YouTube aren't cutting it your options are pretty much dwindling

why do you think censorship matters? it matters because if you're not on one of the main ones the chances of someone going to find you on something else is insane yeah i mean like it's it is such a moral dilemma here because we're talking about we call them platforms but we are talking about the most basic accessible communities that there are so when i see a documentary like The Social Dilemma, yes, it is the first of its kind in a 90-minute documentary to beautifully outline step-by-step why this is damaging. It's not, it wasn't the first of its kind though. These

warnings have been there in other mediums and recognized by people, at least were retweeted, re-parodied, ironically enough, by other people over the years. And yet people, they go to do social cleanses and whatever. But what do they do? They come back. They know they're coming back. And then they realize a month in, like, oh, I'm right back to where I was. You and I talked about it earlier.

You know, when I had the Instagram app off my phone. I've had it back on there. I've always been pretty good about Instagram. That's not the one. I don't get lost on that like i might get lost on twitter i knew it yeah but that's what i'm saying because that's where more of the research is instagram is very visual and whatever and it's a certain type of content i'll get lost on twitter and youtube a lot easier than i will on instagram but even then yeah like insert app here that you take off people know what happens like they understand why do you think youtube went and vimeo didn't at least at the beginning

i can't speak to vimeo now because i know very little about it but it went because youtube created that recommended which then became the youtube algorithm yep which the entire purpose is to engage people and keep them engaged and the algorithm learns what your hot buttons are so that you go, oh, I'll do one more. Oh, it's insanity. I mean, even right now. Like, I rarely go on YouTube, but if I put on one thing, it just knows. Do you, are you a heavy Netflix guy? No.

No? Reader. Are your kids Netflix people? Like, do they watch it? I haven't really heard any of my kids talk about any shows, man. It's literally just the phones. That's, I mean,flix is on the phone too but that's interesting you know i mean it's just like the phone apps and then like for me honestly i'm watching peaky blinders right now that's like the first show i've watched since blue mountain state dude in college yeah and

peaky blinders just happens to be like the perfect show for me yeah netflix obviously has a fuck ton of users because their stock only goes up and their numbers only go up. So some kids obviously got to be using it heavily. Yeah, I guess in my experience, I just hear kids talk about TikTok. Honestly, when we're on the field, it's about the field. I wonder about kids' ability. I wonder about what they think when they see.

Because remember, it's different when you're watching something. When you're listening to something, you can toss in your ears and go about your day. That's what makes podcasting really interesting. But when you are watching something, you both have to listen. And if you're watching on your phone, it takes over your phone. You can't do anything else on your phone. And you have to invest that time. New iPhone update.

You can push it to the corner. Yeah, true, true. anything else on your phone and you have to invest that time new iphone update you can oh yeah yeah true true but still like and twitter's had that for a while yeah i noticed they've had that for a long time within there but that's the point like i wonder about these kids like do they sit there and watch shows on netflix i'm curious about that yeah that's that's interesting to me i honestly don't know and that And that's something I'll get to definitely asking. I mean, I work with enough of them. And I'm curious to hear that. You know, I was going to say something really interesting that I thought you could do.

We obviously have this huge event with Amazon Sunday. With who? Amazon. Wait, it's with Amazon? You didn't know that? No. I know like nothing about this event. Oh, man. All right. Well, let me touch on that real quick. wait it's with amazon you didn't know that no i know like nothing about this about oh man all

right well let me touch on that real quick so uh basically amazon does community engagement events for the communities that they're new into because they want to get i mean ultimately they want to get the community to accept them as a as a large company i mean it's it's genius on that part and we are very thankful to be working with amazon this event um no but seriously so they they helped us out with um with a bit of money to put on an event to engage the community, which we are ultimately giving back in that we're putting on a free Let's Play Lacrosse day, 150 free lacrosse sticks, all the gear you can imagine, 50 sponsors with giveaway baskets, Philadelphia Wings are coming.

It's going to be crazy. What is Amazon's involvement in this? The money. They paid for you to do this? Yeah. How does that happen? Did you contact them? We went through a crazy proposal process.

We beat out non-profits, other small businesses. Yeah. Because they are looking for a group that engages the community well, gets the kids involved, so the parents ultimately are open to them coming into the community, opening a new warehouse, hiring from that parent pool um everything so anyway what i thought would be interesting would be if you were just there as like one of our staff members just talking to kids and yeah yeah i would like to do and just gaining like you could ask them what's your favorite

netflix show yeah and like just sort of genuine like question asking dude i think that's a great idea just because i'd be really curious about that because i like whenever i'm around kids i always like to ask them like what's going on right like what are you like and what are you into because and that's one of the things the fact that people haven't figured out yet that everything that's ever happened in human history that changes culture starts with the youngest generations yes blows my fucking mind the fact that people and that's where you know get off my lawn guy is like so stuck up his ass anyone that wants and this is where i run into some problems with the way people think anyone that expects the world to stay the same because they want it to stay the same is living in a

fucking fantasy land the way to remain relevant is to be relevant and and to understand what's relevant on on the most impressionable people i had one like you know i'll talk with like my mom about like recommendations of stuff and whatever and she'll be like oh well i would want to recommend this that you were involved in to my friends or whatever because they have kids and they'll recommend it to them and i'm like you know mom that's not how it works yeah you are less likely you immediately brand something when your parent right or someone older recommends it to you as opposed to when the fucking kid comes up and recommends something even if he's a twerp little kid or something it's like oh that must be interesting i will give you a great example that it's brought back and i'm a culprit of this so denim jackets okay i'm not

kidding yeah lamest thing in the world when your parents wear them i have four you know what i mean seriously it's like it's actually fashion I think might be the number one driver of that it's like oh you want to wear

whatever shoes and those are super lame until someone starts Crocs you kidding me are you kidding me they're cool

they're really cool now Justin Bieber's involved with Crocs do you know why a lot of these things happen by the way it's all one guy a lot of it a lot of these things happen, by the way? It's all one guy.

A lot of it. A lot of it's driven by the actions of one guy. Kanye West. Kanye West, I think it was Andrew Schultz gave this theory. It's one of the smarter things I've ever heard. He said something along the lines of, I have a theory that Kanye West just wants to take the most uncool things and do them and then make them cool. He is the ultimate contrarian.

Yeah, like running for president. Well, step before that. Hold on. That'll be the last one. Maybe. But yeah, you could even roll that in there. Like he came out and what did he do? He made it cool to wear like pink polos and shit.

Of course. Which could you imagine like someone in urban culture wanting to wear a pink polo and shit of course which could you imagine like someone in urban culture wanting to wear a pink polo like a decade ago even they'd look at you like you were crazy could you imagine like us as kids wanting to wear a pink we'd have been like get that fucking shit off me now it's like the thing he's like in a lot of ways the godfather streetwear which by the way brought back a lot of bad 90s trends that people thought weren't cool and some that were cool but now they've been dead for a while yep he also came out and he was like oh i mean he he came out and changed his music to christian like god worshiping music and made it a cultural event it was always like not cool to bring religion into what you do and then look at like chance like became that guy and then

yeah it's it's a trickle-down effect and then what did he do before running for president what did he do marry kim kardashian no he made it cool no not that one because he's in tune with pop culture in that way but what did he do are you talking about just becoming friends with trump um yeah the most uncool thing you could possibly do apparently as a black male in this country was wear a maga hat and become a trump supporter and the fucking guy did it yeah and he didn't get canceled it is which thank god i mean i hate all cancel culture so i i never want it but and and it goes to show you the group think that because he did that. Oh, my God, a black guy cannot like Trump. How racist is that to say that?

Like, do you realize all the people in the media who were like, he's a disgrace for that? Not all of them. Many of them are white people who claim to just be like, you know, supportive of all minority causes and whatever. And what they're doing is a minority. And maybe he did it with the wrong intentions you don't know that though you don't know that if he had if he actually thought that and was actually like fuck it like i'm friends with this guy i like what he does you are telling a black guy how to think it's crazy it's crazy that's not liberalism is

supposed to be open-mindedness that's what i believe in that's not liberalism that's authoritarianism but that's that is what he's done in so many ways and so when you when you flip the paradigm to where you then do the things that maybe older people do but it starts with the younger generations that's the only thing that can make it cool right you see it's you're not gonna you immediately put a brand on something when when your parents or your grandparents recommend it to you whereas when again i said this when the kid recommends it to you you're like all right bet let me try it yep it's just it's it's how it is spot on honestly spot on like do you see any of your kids even using Facebook? No. Exactly.

Certainly not. Honestly, like, none of them. Why? It's just because their parents are on it, man. And their fucking grandparents. Their aunts in QAnon. And listen, we see it. You think we're not...

When we post on Facebook, it's not for the kids. It's for the parents. Literally, everything we've posted about this Amazon event on Facebook starts with, in all caps, PARENTS! I've watched the engagement on Facebook dissipate over time. And then I got off Facebook. I literally deactivated it for like eight months there. And then I got back on

just to share stuff on top of it. Can't hurt for extra eyeballs on Facebook. Which, even when people engage less on Facebook now as far as likes and comments, but people are seeing it because like some people have like started listening to the podcast because of facebook and i've never seen them on facebook well but the engagement yeah dude we post we post we have 34 people reached on that versus instagram we have like 16 000 yeah what it's not um no i yeah i completely agree with that and now you know like zuckerberg didn't create

instagram no and then he had a lot of problems with sistrom and i always forget the second guy's name the coder who was his partner that created instagram he always had problems with them because like he hated the fact that they were the thing that unseated his cute blue f but they did it by again like we talked about tiktok solving the sins for instagram and vine instagram solved the sins of facebook facebook became a cesspool and it also they recognize all the old people are going there and the young millennials like the aesthetic and the art behind technology to feel like there's humanity in it which is ironic you know it's like not the way it is but they then made it this simple feed. And Mark Zuckerberg hated that all the popularity and volume and brand went there.

And it went there because the youngest people went there. Those are the people who do it, man. Yeah. They are the drivers, ultimately. All right. Enough on that. Before we get out of here, I'd remiss if if i didn't ask you um what is what are you seeing in real estate right now is that i know that obviously you

know a lot about that yeah i'm just curious with covid not a lot of supply uh demand's obviously ridiculous man i mean i've never and obviously i haven't been in it too long, but interest rates this low are insane. It's the best time ever to buy a house. There's just not a lot of houses to buy. I truly think that you'll never get to lend money this cheap. And that's what they said six months ago. What I mean by that is, yeah, interest rates could still go down. They could.

But we're getting to a point now where it's almost like, what's the point of being a lender? Yeah. But what about like, because you know a lot about the commercial side too and have done a lot of work in that. What about that just because this sent everyone remote and a lot of people aren't calling back? Sure. So on the commercial side of it, office space will never be the same. I truly think that. I mean, people are like, yeah, you know what?

It's going to have to rebound. It's going to have to shift. At the end of the day, you're never going to see people sitting in a traditional office in the same capacity as we saw before. You're never going to see the companies that get eight floors of an office building on a new lease for traditional office use. Industrial will never be the same in the other way. You're going to see more last mile distribution.

Like I said, amazon opening a new warehouse every 30 seconds um you know that side of the business is insane that the flex industrial all that's going up i truly think office will never be the same i think medical is going to be that that weird even ground this is just my opinion where it's going to kind of just kind of float on through not change much um what are the numbers like right now like on a on a hard number basis what are you seeing in that marketplace commercial like office space like are prices down 30 percent are they down 40 do they vary here's the pen here's the weird part right the pricing on the on the listing like price per square foot for office space in Center City, isn't that much changed.

It's really not. Now, ultimately, after this quarter, when we look back at it year over year, it'll probably be down a little bit. But there was such little vacancy before this that most of these office buildings are still pretty full because they're sure as hell not letting companies out of their leases. They're not. So wait, do you mean the leases need to turn over yeah and that's what i'm saying so there's those forced majeure situations that gets into the contracts and the lease itself and and everything like that but it's a really weird world where you're seeing like multiple office suites like relatively empty if completely empty. So supply hasn't glutted the market yet because it hasn't,

they're not letting them out of the leases. What is like the typical length of a lease in like your average office or does it really vary? So the typical way you would look at it is the larger the office, the longer the lease, right? So you're seeing like 10,000 square feet,

10 years, 2,000 square feet, years 2 000 square feet five years what's the shortest lease you really see uh in in like philadelphia center city office space yeah basic city three and that's really five you're not seeing there there's no point to leasing in the middle of the city if you're not willing to sign on for five years so that's interesting it's normally 10 yeah because if you have 5 10 15 and let's even go suburbs and say it could be down to two or three for in some areas yeah so let's just say like here in mulca hill if someone i don't know if there's like a main street near here but if someone has like a retail place on on main street like landlord might start them on something shorter like maybe two or three years it just just really depends at that point. It depends if it's a small landlord and they're willing to

take that risk, then sure. Either way, either way, we're like seven, eight months into COVID. Yeah. So we have not even had a full calendar year go off as, as long as it's been, just think about it in the context of these leases. So the number of leases that have come up are just leases that happen to be coming up during that time period right and then we also are now just reaching the point after all the stimulus and all the things and now that's running out and stuff and like the grace period of payment is also running out we are still arriving at the point in many places where people are gonna start being evicted and kicked oh it's about to be insane so so one thing that's where the supply outcome one thing that's crazy and I don't know how I even mentioned this,

retail will never be the same either. Of course not. One of the kids I trained, great kid, his dad's a super high power attorney in New York, and he told me, like he's like Times Square, and then I think he said Fifth Avenue. I do not know New York well. He's like, he names this store, that store, this store, that store, gone, gone, gone, gone.

And these are companies where they're not getting out of their lease. They're literally just abandoning and just paying for that fucking space. It's crazy. So my one friend up there who's powerful in commercial real estate, like he's a killer. He's been doing it his entire career. He was giving me numbers. This is like maybe three, four weeks ago. He was giving me numbers saying there was like seven percent capacity use right now just based on people actually back at the office i mean it's it's bad yeah it's bad and honestly

who can blame him because if you really think about it the idea the the old school i guess idea of like wake up get your shit together hop on on a train, go in, sit in your fucking cubicle, melt away, go home. Like it's actually not a way of life. And I believe in, in hard work, right? That's something I want to mention, but it should literally be a choice. It should be. If you're able to perform at the same level, I would find myself to say, all right, well, I have a dog who's distracting. I live in a loft. I got a couple of roommates. I'm probably better off in the office. That's something I know.

I'm in sales, so I should go do that. But there needs to be some sort of change, and there will be. For that reason, you're not going to see the same thing in any aspect of commercial real estate ever again. You're not. And it's also, I mean, you named it. It's time. Everything you just said that is a part of that process is time out of your day. That's why real estate costs so much to live in New York City because it saves you the bridges and the tunnels and the traffic that comes with it.

It puts you there, so you are saving X number of hours per day. But now imagine even that. You get showered. You have to get up at a certain time you have to get down your building you have to get out of your building after you're dressed and already and done up and everything which for men and women can take a while and then you got to get to work and maybe it's a 15 minute walk or two subway stops or whatever and it's 45 minutes now even those people who supposedly had to live in new york because they wanted to do that instead of the two-hour thing it takes to get from new jersey to New York. Now they don't have to do that because they're able to work remote and that saves more time because they can roll the fuck out of bed and go to their desk and not worry about what they look like. And part of it's like, okay, listen, I think there's two sides

of it. You can get in a good flow having a morning routine and getting into it. But what we talked about before, that time spent on a commute, if you spend that to meditate, you spend that to take care of your mind, you eat a good meal, you get a workout in, you maybe do all of that combined like I would, you tell me that you're not more productive after that for your day than if you woke up, showered, got in the car, drove to the train station, hopped on the train, took the train into Philly, got off the train in Philly, walked 10 blocks, and you're finally at your office in Center City. You sit down.

You tell me who has a more productive day. Hamster wheel. Yeah. It's a hamster wheel. And it's changing. Yeah, we've been talking for a while, so we can close it up. But I mean, we could do a whole episode just talking about that and what's going on there and how that's going to affect things and like you introduced one thing that i was ready to go down the rabbit hole on

but we'd still be here three hours from now and that is the amazon concept so that's that's something we definitely want to talk on again but listen brother thanks for coming in again you crushed it the first time this is like the other side of you last time was like we were having the whiskey we were talking about our mental health and and you know what though ty that episode was really really important because we were raw and like we're two upbeat guys we're two active guys we're two people that like to spend time around a lot of people and i think it was important to show you know in long form content because we forgot everything was going and we just talked about it to actually discuss these harder things I mean it's a vulnerable thing to do but it was really

important so I really appreciate you coming in for that and of course I wanted you to come back in so we could have a more upbeat conversation like we usually do but listen man I'm looking forward to having you again in here already appreciate it man yeah it'll be good I'm sure I'll be

able to talk on, on Amazon a little bit more next time. And that's going to be something that, uh, I definitely want to dive into. So, yeah. And we'll enjoy the benefits while you have them. Thanks man. Everyone else. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace.