Julian Dorey Podcast - #255 - WW2 Savage Recalls Horrific Nazi Weapons, D-Day & Beating Hitler | Jake Ruser

Episode Date: December 1, 2024

- FOLLOW RISHI SHARMA’S AMAZING “REMEMBERING WW2” CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/@RememberWW2  - SUPPORT RISHI’S MISSION TO INTERVIEW ALL SURVING WW2 VETERANS: http://Www.gofundme.com/250ww2heroes  (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Jake Ruser is a WW2 Veteran, Medic & living legend. He landed on the beaches of Northern France w/ the Allied Forces in 1944 –– and made his way into Nazi Germany right before it’s fall in May 1945. PATREON https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey  FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/   INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/   X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey  GUEST LINKS RISHI SHARMA TT: https://www.tiktok.com/@rememberww2  JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips    - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily    - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP    CREDITS: - Host, Producer, and Editor: Julian Dorey - In-Studio Producer: Alessi Allaman - https://www.instagram.com/allaman.docyou/  ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Jake’s Nazi Gun; Rishi’s Story 4:49 - Growing up in the Depression 12:25 - Father served in WW1 15:29 - Jake remembers Day of Pearl Harbor Attack 18:19 - Deferment, Draft & Basic Training 27:04 - Set Boobie Traps 31:04 - No understanding of War 35:54 - Nazis & Geneva Convention; Hitler’s Rise 39:34 - Talking w/ Dad; Shipped to Hoboken & England; Outrunning German UBoats 49:24 - Nazi Germany bombs Jake in England 52:24 - D-Day & Preparation Disaster 1:04:09 - Saving Private Ryan D-Day vs Reality 1:06:39 - Insane Jersey Shore UBoat Story 1:09:54 - D-Day goes down; Jake Lands on beach 1:20:14 - Breaking down every D-Day beach landing, Band of Brothers Easy Company 1:25:54 - Jake’s first missions ashore Europe 1:34:24 - Getting hit w/ White Phosphorus Shells 1:42:39 - Cherbourg captured; Vibe on the ground 1:47:24 - Mortar Barrage 1:55:44 - Marching on Nazi-Occupied Paris; Bombers attack; Jake treats Nazi 2:06:09 - Jake’s WW2 Medals 2:08:44 - Saint Lo (July 1944); George Patton; Comfort in Battlefield death 2:15:04 - Nazi Panzer Divisions; Battle of Mortain 2:21:29 - Paris Liberated; Nazi Snipers go rogue 2:29:54 - Orders after Paris fell 2:35:29 - Preparing for Battle of Hurtgen Forest 2:40:54 - The Battle of Hurtgen Forest 2:52:29 - How Hurtgen Ended; Dead STILL being collected from Hurtgen 3:00:29 - Meeting President at D-Day Memorial 3:04:16 - Build up to the Battle of the Bulge 3:06:58 - Germans attack at Battle of the Bulge 3:09:52 - Story of the Nazi Gun & Fighting thru Belgium 3:18:24 - Entering Germany in 1945; Nazi Prisoners 3:26:34 - Jake finds out Hitler’s dead 3:29:49 - German UBoat Scare; Another UBoat surrenders to Jake’s Captain 3:32:34 - Jake takes care of paraplegic patients 3:34:38 - Jakes’ Service Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 255 - Jake Ruser Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jake, you're trying to give me a federal weapons charge coming in here, my friend. I told him that. Can we pull this thing up, Rishi, if you don't mind, and bring this over here? What is this? That's a German, I think they call it a Mauser. A Mauser. It's a rifle, they're a German rifle. Well, let me hand it to its rightful owner over here,

if you can grab it. You want to help him, Rishi, on the other side? I got it. You got it? Where did you get that? I picked this up in Niederprum, Germany. Niederprum, Germany. When?

I believe it was February the 13th. 1945. Wow. Where did you find it? Well, we had pushed the Germans back, so they dropped their weapon, or we'd taken prisoners. They had dropped their weapons. So they were laying on the ground, so a few of us decided we were going to pick it up for a souvenir and take the rifles home. I was able to mail this home, believe it or not.

You were able to mail it home back then? Right. Wow. Yeah, the guys outside Deer Maud were looking at me like I was the most interesting terrorist in the world when we were bringing that thing in. That's what I was afraid of. You're lucky you don't have that many people around. Yeah, there were a few, but I felt like you gave me some legitimacy with the uniform and everything. That definitely helped.

But thank you so much for being here this is going to be amazing today rishi if you don't mind we can put that right over here for later i think you said jake this is the first time you've ever taken it out of the home right i think that's the first time really out of my house to come to hoboken since it came 80 that's over 80 years ago it's not loaded right, right? No. Okay, just making sure. I don't want a little desk pop in here. But I'd like to set the stage here for people just because we do have two of you in here. And obviously, you had a, if we can show those medals right there, you had quite a decorated military career and are a World War II veteran who served throughout the European theater, entering on Utah Beach and making it all the way into Germany with a bunch of stops in between.

Right. So we will get into all that today. But I also want to take a minute and recognize our mutual friend here, Rishi Sharma, who if people did not hear Mike Ritland and I talk about Rishi's channel in episode 215, I want to give it another huge plug here. Rishi has essentially spent the last decade traveling around all the allied countries, not just the United States, but where? Canada, New Zealand, where else? Yeah, across all the US, all 50 states, Canada, the UK, Australia, France. Wow. You've been traveling across these places, though, to interview on camera all of the still surviving World War II Allied Forces veterans. And I believe you've done like 2,500 on-camera interviews, something like that?

Exactly. I hit the road in December of 2016. And in that time, I've interviewed just over 2,500 World War II veterans across all 50 states, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, France. And we have some trips coming up to Brazil, Poland. I mean, it's so important to document all these veterans because it wasn't just the US that was involved, obviously. It was a combined effort to get rid of the tyranny and the oppression of the Japanese empire and the oppression of the japanese empire and the nazi regime absolutely people like jake are my biggest heroes and it's just such an honor to be able to help spread his story yeah we're gonna get into some of your story interspersed today i think that would be really good but you know i've had a chance to see what you do up close

and how much care you put into it as well. And it is not only an amazing thing, but I hope you realize you are essentially writing the encyclopedia of history through the eyes of people like you, Jake, who were brave souls who were there to do this. And you're also honoring the memory of those who fell on these battlefields and never got a chance to tell their story and and rely on again people like you jake to tell their story so i'm going to put the link to your channel for these specials we do down in the description i want everyone to please go subscribe to it there's amazing interviews on your channel and i want you to keep doing what

you're doing because it's really really cool thank you so much of course brother but you have set up a great guest today as we said don't want to bury the lead here so jake you're almost 100 years old now 30 there 27th of december oh my god i make it congrats i think you're looking good you move really well so i I'm betting on you making it, but congratulations on that. You were such a young man, though, when you went and did your service, essentially, for, what was it, about 15, 16 months of action, something like that? I was overseas for 16 months. I served 22 months in service. Wow. So where'd you grow up?

I grew up in Contrahock in Pennsylvania. I went to school, St. Matthew's Elementary School, and to their high school. Back then, the churches had their own high schools after the war they turned around and went to archdiocese high schools so but people just say I went

to St. Matthew high school they say where was that because they never heard of it it was back in 1889 I I think, they started the school. So it was around a long time. Did you have a bunch of siblings too? I only had a sister who was one year, 13 months actually, younger than I was.

And just the two of us, we grew up in Contrahock through the Depression years. Yeah, that was some tough years. Like I say, my parents never complained about it. They did it. They tried to make things. We had our own garden. So in the summer when the food came in,

my mother would do canning with the excess food, and we would have fresh food for the winter. What do you mean canning? They would put them in jars and seal the jars. They'd be hot and all, and they would seal the jars, and they'd call that canning. They were like mason jars a quart about quart sized jars yeah and they have a seal on them and all trying to think the depression would have hit when you were around five or six years old because you were born at

the end of 1924 right right yeah so that's like basically your first memories are the world, just everything's stopping and people suddenly, like you said, having to focus on basic sustenance. And I never heard my parents complain about it or anything else. But I did find out my father got $4 during the Depression for two weeks' salary. $4. $4.

He had to travel from Konchalkin to Germantown, which is in Philadelphia, and buy gas and all and keep a car and all going. And also we had to have food to eat and clothing to go to school and all. So he said one time, it wasn't for my mother being thrifty and able to do things that he don't know how we would have made it.

What did your dad do? My father, during the 20s and 30s, he was in elastic hosiery he made like garments and stockings and all for elastic then as the

when the war the heart of depression got going the French started sending their merchandise over which was similar. But to come in unfinished, they would even aisle it off or something. So it was considered unsettered, and they could sell it cheaper, shipping it over, and then they could do it, build it here.

And that's before unions. Yeah. What an interesting time in history. That's right. So much was happening. So then, I don't know whether the plant closed down or what, but then my father got a job in the 40s working as a bartender. He took care, he was the steward at the VFW post in Consul Hocken in the 30s. Do you remember a time where maybe you were a teenager,

even possibly shortly before World War II, where it felt like the effects of the Great Depression had thawed a little bit, or was it still all the way up to the war kind of bad? To be truthful, I never never even i don't think her depression as a child you know he knew things were tough we stand around and my sister and i never kept asking for stuff or anything else i don't know why i know i got had an aunt got mad at me she said would you like this and i said i don't care and she said i'm tired of hearing you say you don't care but i never put my heart and soul

into having something that i didn't know whether i could get it or not and as a boy they came around we were playing uh baseball on the street one day and a guy comes telling us about selling magazines so then they turned around got a magazine route and I started selling magazines and

then I turned around as I got older in high school I turned around and started serving newspapers at the North Sound Times at night wow or in high school, I turned around and started to serve newspapers at the North Sound Times at night. Wow. Yeah, the North Sound Times. No, the Country Recorder, I guess it was.

Yeah, so you guys are hustling as young'uns. Well, I was never told I had to do that or anything. I just, for some reason, it just was my nature, I guess you would say. Yeah, it ended up serving you pretty well. Definitely. I did all right. It didn't make a lot of money, but I did all right. I kept going.

Yeah. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please take a second to hit that button and leave a five-star review. It is a huge, huge help to the show. You can also follow me on Instagram and on X by using the links in my description. Thank you. Now, do you remember one of the things we've been talking about on some different podcasts that's just kind of come up as a topic with different guests is the buildup in World War II in America.

I was reading this book somewhat recently called The Splendid and the Vile by this guy Eric Larson. And essentially it's a one-year history of May 1940 to May 1941 of Winston Churchill and Britain during the bombing of Britain and the bombing of London specifically. I've never heard of it. It's an amazing book, would highly recommend. But one of the themes that the author discusses a lot in this book is about the attitudes in America towards war before Pearl Harbor. And he's explaining how they were extremely isolationist. They did not want to get involved with the war. Do you remember any of those sentiments? Well, my father served in World

War I. Really? He was a sergeant with the 314th Infantry of the 79th Division in Company B. And later on, I'll tell you a story about that. But he got around, and my father in the 30s, when they turned around, the veterans tried to get a bonus from World War I. They had a hard time demonstrating. They marched down and marching and all. I understand that some of them were shot and killed down there marching. Oh, yes. MacArthur was the commanding officer at the time of the group.

And they turned around. My father, back in 34, 35, 33, they started their post. 33, 34, 35. He was very active in demonstrating to get that bonus. And he would go and participate as a veterans group. He was a charter member

of the Continental Post 1074 of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. So anyway, we were all grew up being in the sons of the VFW and being active around veterans. So I more or less always stayed that way, even to this day.

And then when the war came along and I was drafted and I knew I was being sent overseas, I turned around and had to fill out all my papers to join the post and all I had to do was put the date of official arrival. And they turned around to show that I was in an overseas organization.

When I landed in England, I turned around and sent the letter home. And I now look back, I've been a member of the Conshock and Post 1074 since April the 18th, 1944. Wow, over 80 years. Over 80 years. That's amazing.

And it's in the family bloodlines, too, your father being a World War I. My father was always active. My mother got active in the Ladies Auxiliary of the Post, and all our dedication was to veterans and to their offsprings. Did your dad ever talk to you about the Great War? My father never mentioned much about the war because on November 1st, my father was wounded in 1918. Oh, right before the end. On the 11th, the war ended.

But when he was wounded, a piece of the shell hit him. It hit his body directly and blew his body apart. So my father never talked much about the war or anything. But he would refer to different things that would happen, but never got any details about it. Do you remember where you were when Pearl Harbor happened? Yes. We had a semi-detached home in Contra Hocken,

and it had a side driveway. I took it down to the car, go down and park under the garage, under the house. Well, they turned around, and one day, the day of the war broke out, my father was working on his car out by the side of the house, and I was out there helping him. And they turned around, and they interrupted the football game. Yeah, the Eagles football game.

The Eagles were playing. And they interrupted the game because, and to tell us about the attack on Pearl Harbor. And we heard Roosevelt and all. So I remember very well. What did you think? I didn't think much. Being young, you don't think that much of it or anything until you get involved. You get more involved.

I think people pay more attention and know more. But as a young child, you didn't pay that. It's just that the family was shocked to hear such a thing and to hear that we were probably going to go to war. I mean, your dad had been a veteran, though. He had served in a really awful war. My father served in war. He was in the Meuse, Argonne, and all them.

Right. Big battles over there. So I got to imagine, if he's with you, when he hears something like this yeah he knows what's coming very uh upsetting but uh you know and they didn't go out of our way throw things around or anything else get all but other than that the uh it was uh quite a uh it was a shock. And knowing about war, it was sorry to hear we were going to go to war. Would I be going to war?

Now, at that point, December 7th, 1941, you're about to turn 17 in a few weeks. Right. Right? That's right. And so the draft age was 18, correct? Right. So you couldn't go into the Army, but did you then, I guess, throughout 1942, we start ramping up for war, start getting into the theaters,

and then December 1942 comes, you turn 18. Did you get drafted right away? No. No. I turned around and I finished school. I was still an infant, so I was given a deferment. I had to sign up for the draft, but I was given a deferment until I finished school.

And then they turned around, and then in 43, they called me up in August. Get it right, September. In August the 18th, I told you we were called to the draft board for our final exam. I had to go out. We went there a few times during that period. But then when I got out of school, I was called up, and I was with a group. Now, I was an exception. I took my barber to the service with me.

Why'd you do that? Because he fell in the draft board. The draft board took him. I didn't do it, but I tell everybody I drafted him, I took him with me. Sounded like a rich guy. But anyway, yeah, it's funny. Now, he's in his early 30s, around 30, I guess he was. And I'm only 18 and a half.

But I went to him to get haircuts. And then when the draft notice came, he was involved and him and several other older men were drafted who were married. And they turned around so when we went to the draft

board in Ambler, they turned around, put us on a train, and shipped us up to Allentown, Pennsylvania to get our final physical exam. And what goes in the physical exams back then? What kind of things did they have you do? Eyes, ears, and that stuff. But I don't know why we had to go all the way up there to get the final. But they checked you out a little better I guess than most of the time.

But anyway, I think we all passed and went up that day. And one fella, he walked across the hall when he found out he passed and turned around and went over to an engineer

group and signed up to be an engineer. So anyway, when we were in the service, he left immediately that day. But the rest of us, we were given

three weeks to clear up any things, details we had at home or anything, or financial situations. And the married men had their families and all. They didn't have families that were married, but they had to clear up with their wives and all that. So anyway, after we get over in England, well, I'm getting ahead of my story. You want me to go ahead? Wherever you want to go.

Yeah, you mentioned England a few times. I turned around on March 21st. We went into service. We were drafted. And on the 8th of September, we did have to leave until the 8th of September, we didn't have to leave until the 8th of September. We all went and we went to New Cumberland, Pennsylvania, where they sent us. And there they gave us our military equipment and our uniforms and all. And then we took our civilian clothes and mailed them home.

Now, you ended up becoming a medic. At what point did they say that's what you're going to do? Well, then we turned around and we're there in New Cumberland after we got our equipment and all. And funny thing, the whole group was drafted, was put on a train. And a group from Pittsburgh was brought in at the same time. We were both put on a train and sent to

Chicago, where the train was picked up and taken to Rockford, Illinois, which is 90 miles north of Chicago. There we got off the train, and we turned around and lined up, and the first thing they told us, you're going to be medics.

You won't be carrying any guns. So they turned around, and all the married men said, not me. I'm going to have a gun. I want to defend myself and support myself. So anyway, we all went through basic training. It was at the Camp Grant Army Depot out there it was right outside of Rockford, Illinois

and I think it was a World War I camp because there were double barracks and we had to clean them all up and get them shining and all, sandpaper, wood and all to make it white but anyway we had, instead of normally,

you'd get maybe six, eight weeks of basic training. Well, we got 18 weeks. Our 18 weeks consisted of basic training plus medical training, whether it was something new they were trying or what, I don't know. But we had the whole, the both schooling together, the training together. And we turned around and when we ended up,

it was in, right before, the week before Christmas, we went on a two-week bivouac, which would have been over the Christmas holidays. A two-week what? Bivouac, which would have been over the Christmas holidays. A two-week what? Bivouac.

I lived out in the field. Oh. And we turned around to learn how to do things out in the field as medics. We turned around to learn how to give shots. We learned how to put up all the different type tents, from the message center tent up to the big what they call war tents which was those big hospital

tents they used. And we had to learn how to put them up and take them down. But the day we left to go in bivouac it was 40 degrees. That night it dropped to zero degrees. They wouldn't allow us to put up any a shoulder house

which is a half of a tent two fellows get together and put their two halves together to make a pup tent whoa but we weren't allowed to put that up because we're going to test some new arctic equipment the government was looking into. And what was that? Clothing and all we had. And that was about the whole thing, to check this clothing out to see if it would hold up. And the sleeping bags and all, see if they would hold up. Anyway, we turned around.

We got on the BIDWAC. We had our basic training. We went on BIDWAC. I said I went down to zero that night. The next day, it didn't get above zero all day. And that night, it dropped to 20, 25 below zero. The entire two weeks we were out there, it stayed at 25 below zero or more. 25 below zero.

Below zero. Oh, my God. When you get up, you take your mesh gear, you put it in the hot water to warm the pan up. You stick it under to get the eggs coming off the griddle. And then by the time they hit the pan, they were frozen. All we could do was go over and shake them out into the garbage pit.

That's nuts. So we actually had, they gave us oatmeal too, so we actually were living on oatmeal and coffee. Oh, my God. But we got through, and Christmas Day, the night before Christmas, they brought us back in, and we stayed in the barracks overnight for Christmas. Then the next day we went out, the day after Christmas,

we went out again onto the field. We came back in around New Year's. The 18 weeks, though, that you were in camp learning. So you didn't have any previous medical-type experience before they told you you were going to be a medic, right? Well, I did. You did? Most then.

What was your background? I was a Boy Scout, so I learned some first aid. Very cool. But anyway, when we went, during our basic, our basic, we had to learn, the medics had to learn how to do, set booby traps and how to disarm booby traps. Set booby traps. We had a course in that. So if we ran into any occasions, we would know what,

be able to help and save. And one of our fellows during the war in the Hürken, dismantled a booby trap when it was put on one of our soldiers who was wounded by the Germans. And when the medic went to take care of him, he turned around, the guy was conscious, and he told us that he was booby-trapped. So he was, the medic had the first,

they saw him in a booby trap before he could treat him. What did the booby trap look like if the guy himself had it on? Sometimes you have low explosives, sometimes you had bigger ones. But most of them were small explosives where you touch a thing, it would blow up or something. And just the way you would pull it or something. And it varied. Now, one town, I'm jumping way ahead,

but one town during the bulge, the town of Ekernach in Luxembourg. They turned around the whole town. The jewelry store and all was booby-trapped by the Germans. So if any of our guys went and touched anything, they would blow up and lose their hands

or get killed or something. So they worked very good in a lot of cases. So you learned how to build them, though, too, you were saying? We learned how to assemble them, right, and what to put together and how to hook them up for different occasions. And our main purpose was to dismantle them. So then we had a course.

We'd turn around, and different days we'd turn around, go over and booby trap the platoons in basic training. The 1st and 2nd platoon covered each other, and the 3rd and 4th platoon would take care. And then we worked back and forth. And we would go over and booby trap the 4th platoon. I was in the 3rd platoon, and we would booby trap the fourth but I was in the third platoon and we booby trapped the fourth they were over booby trap in our place so then we had to come back to see we could find the booby trap and dismantle

them just so yeah they didn't have explosives on them at that time but they would you know flick off but anyway, that's how we learned. And we got acquainted with the different barriers. But we had to learn all that in our basic training. One day you have some work in the field,

then you come in and have classes, medical classes and all. And we had, first day after the guys got their first pass, we had one on VD. And how we had to go in and treat it

and the different probes we had to use, tape the probe, and you had to go in and get it real bad. You go in and cut it and all. We had them. So a lot of guys got sick. Watch. And went through it. But we had to learn all that stuff. So when you got in, you didn't know where you're going to be. Well, you're

going to be on the field in battle as an A-man. Well, you're going to wind up in a battalion aid station as a litter bearer or a medic, take care of the wound as they came in. So you never know. Or you may wind up going to a hospital, being part of a hospital group, which I did at the end. I'll try to remember to tell you that. You did a lot of different things. Yeah. So I'm just trying, you know, I'm doing my best to put myself in your shoes. And it's really impossible given that literally the freedom of the world was on the line.

And also you're like 19 years old when this is happening. I turned 19 doing basic training. I turned 20 doing the battle of the bulge we'll get there okay but that is insane i just wanted to because before you even get to the theater right then we're going to talk about that in a minute and everything you saw there what i want to know is is there any reality setting in in your head while you're in training where you're saying yourself like shit i am about to go in to hell no we i don't think we thought that because you keep getting new orders and do this and do that that you paid attention what you were doing and

you didn't think ahead or imagine this or that. And we had no idea really what war was. We really wasn't in a war for so many years, you know. So people didn't know what war was. We heard about it. We were in North Africa in 42, I think we went in. In 43 in Sicily. We were in Italy, right, in think we went in. In 43, we were in Italy. Right.

In Sicily and all. So, you know, and those fellows are only starting to come back. A lot of them were wounded and all. But you had no imagination of what war was really like. And like in Normandy, the battle we fought through the hedgerows in Normandy was so much different than the battle we fought after we got into the open plain. We changed our system of how we did things and all. No orders, but we just seemed to make changes to give us a better going and what we thought would be better. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you look at the strategy of the war itself and the way that the American military and the British military and the allies altogether,

the Soviets as well, you know, totally changed the game with, in how they won this thing. It's, it never gets old to me to study that stuff because it's truly amazing what they pulled off. When you learn by doing.

You think different things, and next time you try to avoid it and do something different to try to improve it. So many of the veterans who I interview were young men, obviously, at this time. And you ask a very reasonable question. You're 19 years old. know, you're 19 years old. You obviously you're an O'Dummit, you're gonna go into war, you could get killed, you think about it. But overwhelmingly, the answer I hear from the veterans is that it was an adventure. And for so many of them, I mean, when you're 19, you're invincible. And as he mentioned, as Jake mentioned, besides some of the men of the country who fought in World War I, the U.S. for such a long period of time had been a largely civilian majority country.

You didn't have eons of generations of military families like we do have today, you know, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. I think at the start of 1940, the U.S. had the 18th largest military in the world. We were behind Uruguay. So we had 183,000, right? Not only that, when they were training, they didn't have guns to give the fellows a train. And when we went to war, they'd turn around and they'd say they were given brooms to carry as a rifle to practice on the manual. Yeah. That's what they were doing in Ukraine last year, too.

Probably. Yeah. Because they don't have the equipment they get to have to train them, and that's what they... have the equipment they get the have to train them and that's what they uh so but we were lucky by time 7 43 they were getting the equipment even though they never gave me a guy like a rifle or a pistol well you got one you want to get your own i i brought one home anyway but uh i think jake you told me in our interview didn't you you say you seriously considered suing the government for sending you into harm's way? I'm just saying, now we hear all the suing going on in the government.

Can I sue the government for sending me into battle? It means the courts have already authorized that everybody's allowed to carry a gun. Yeah. So now can I sue the government or the tens of thousands of medics? That's crazy they didn't let you guys carry a gun. Yeah. So now can I sue the government or the tens of thousands of medics? That's crazy. They didn't let you guys carry a gun. Joint lawsuit. Well, there was a reason for it.

And why was that? In Europe, Germany recognized the Geneva Convention. Oh, they did? Yeah. This is news to me. The Japanese did not recognize it so in the European theater they think it was no carrying the gun even some guys I understand on their own carried their own gun but never never issued the Pacific I don't

know some tell me they didn't carry a gun. Some tell me they did. So I don't know. That's interesting that the Nazis observed the Geneva Conventions. It doesn't really, in my head, when I think of history, it doesn't really jive that people building gas chambers observed any kind of conventions. That was the reason they gave for us not receiving any guns. Well, keep in mind, though, I mean, the Geneva Conventions were right after World War I, right? So it was before Hitler got into office or any of that stuff. I think Germany maybe was hoping to be a normal, civilized country. Didn't work out.

Yeah. They had to rebuild. And, you know, he built that order by law, which was the thing for Eisenhower when he came back to build the highways across the country. Yeah. So we learned a lot from the war, too. We did. You're right.

It's really amazing when you look at how opportunistic Hitler was because the Great Depression is what ended up giving him his opening because it affected them over there like what we did bled over to them and then he was like oh you're all poor now so you gotta listen to me and then put in some economic things and then said by the way we're gonna do a hundred million other things here including like getting rid

of everyone who's not white and people are like oh and then they went along with it. Yeah. I mean, isn't it true, Jake, you know, after the war, you couldn't find a Nazi, right? All the Germans you guys would encounter during occupation. A lot of the veterans who I meet, that's what they mention.

They say the Germans who they would interact with, the first thing they would say is, I'm not a Nazi. But if you look at those pictures from Nuremberg, those early rallies, when things were going good for the Germans, a lot of them supported Hitler. Well, everybody had us. You go out and you didn't support them, they'd shoot you or lock you up. So either you go out and you act like you're interested and you're a part of them, or you don't. This is the thing today. Our country's the same way right now.

Did you – you had said your dad didn't really talk about World War I because of his experience there. Right. Never got any details about it. The only thing he mentioned about France, when you went into France, all the, along the corners and all, they had the latrines, like where they just go in and go to the bathroom. On the corners? On the corners, yeah. In the trenches?

Huh? In the trenches? No, no, no, no. No, the French people lived that way. In the towns. in the towns. In the towns. I'm sorry. I missed the boat on that one.

When we went into Sherbrooke, we turned around, we were up in a building, and right down in front was a latrine right in the middle of the wall. And they just had a cover around it, and men and women both go in and use the same one and they thought nothing of it convenient right that's right that's right it was for convenience but when when you got your orders to to go to basic training and and you got drafted and you leave home was there any type of conversation with your dad, not necessarily about his own experience, but about the weight of what you may be undertaking?

The only thing is I was a friend of our family from the veterans, VFW folks. He turned around and he stopped by by and he said to my father, did he ever talk to me about any of the thing? And my father said no. So he turned around and he just got out of the Air Force. He had been in and he became 38 years old

so he was discharged. And so he turned around and was talking to me about the women and he had to watch all these women and all when he'd go to towns, different towns so so not with your dad though so you just kind of

left and went and did your thing I did do you remember the last time you saw your folks before you shipped overseas oh yeah I'll tell you that later oh you thought it was that later or now? Well, we turned around after we left Shenango. They sent us from Shenango, which was three weeks.

They gave us some new equipment and upgraded our equipment, what we had. And the next day, we were packed up and put on a train from there, from the depot, from the Camp Chang. They put us on a train and sent us down to Hoboken, New Jersey. Where we are right now? Where we are right now. We got off the train. Oops, I knocked. Where we are right now? Where we are right now. We got off the train and walked over and got on a ferry boat. And they turned around and took us on a ferry boat across to Manhattan to a pier. Now, when we got off and got on the pier,

walking up the pier, there was a big ship on our left side and went on our right. The one on the left, they said, was the Queen Elizabeth. The one on the right was the Queen Mary. We went up the gangplane of the Queen Mary, so we sailed on March the 21st. I left about noontane of the Queen Mary. So we sailed on March the 21st and left about noontime of the 21st. And we shipped out for England, Europe.

Did you go, what base in England did you go to? We turned around, we sailed out of New York Harbor up along the coast towards Iceland. When we got near Iceland, they turned and went across the stretch there. And our first morning on the high seas, we were on a British ship. They served us oatmeal. And the next course was blood kidneys. Oh, nice.

That was an English breakfast, which we didn't know. Nobody ate blood kidneys. Yeah, it sounds terrible. So we turned around and we lived on the oatmeal and coffee all week. But then we finally, when we got over, we went up and we got over near England. I think the day before, we picked up a submarine reading. So they turned around.

Since we didn't, since the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and the bigger ship all traveled without a convoy. Traveled without the convoy. We had to, so the captain had to outrun them they feel they could outrun the submarine so they turned around and the captain made a big circle and it took us a whole day so we were one day late getting into

our thing but we came back and ran into the English Channel and up the Irish Sea between Ireland and England. We sailed by Liverpool on up into Scotland. And we docked right off of Scotland. And it was Greenock, Scotland, where we got off the ship. They had to take us off in smaller boats and bring us into the rail station. When you're saying submarine, you're referring to German U-boats, right?

German U-boats, that's right. So the captain felt like he could outrun them. So he was outrunning them. He lost them on that day. So we went up to England, up into Scotland. And then when we're standing on the train platform waiting for our train to come in, we're looking out.

It's about a mile or so. You're seeing a distance, the Sheriff's Church steeple. So we're inquisitive, asked where that was, because we didn't know where we were. And they told us it was Glasgow, Scotland, the church. So anyway, when the train came, we all got on the train, we boarded the train, and we went through the Scottish countryside the entire day.

And we got into Liverpool, England England as it was getting dusk. And it didn't get dark until after 11 o'clock at night. Really? We were on double British summertime. So we used to, our days used to, during the summer,

I think, daylight lasts up to midnight. Wow. By the way, Rishi, I see you over there. If the headphones are going out, don't worry about it. Just twist them like that on the thing. While you're doing that.

So, Jake, just try to keep it in front of you. Yeah, yeah, you're doing great. I bumped it. You're doing great. No, no, that was me. I'm moving it. You're doing great. I thought I bumped it.

What you're saying is so incredible, we just want to pick up every word. Yeah, your voice is really good. I'm watching your levels the whole time. What is it? Yeah, you're doing great. But anyway. Yeah, let's is really good. I'm watching your levels the whole time. What is it? Yeah, you're doing great. But anyway. Yeah, let's continue where you were. Anyway, we landed in Grenoble, Scotland.

We got on our train, and we traveled through the Scottish countryside, which is now beginning of spring over there also. So it was the 28th of March when we landed. So they turned around, and we went on into England, and we got off the train in Liverpool, England, which is the northeastern part of England, Liverpool. And they turned around, and we're waiting for our train now. It's getting dark and dusk setting in.

And you look out over the town of Liverpool, and we see all these blown-out buildings. Yeah. And just shells standing in front of you. Yeah. And all was blown out. And I got such a funny feeling like I was standing in the middle of a battlefield. Yeah, yeah. But that's the way it hit me. But anyway, when our buses came, they put us on and took

us about an hour, hour and a half towards the Manchester Island. And it was a camp there called Oaten Park, they called it. Well, that camp was an engineer camp, which they were supposed to only bring engineers, I guess, in. But for some reason, they took us in there. So for the first two weeks, the cadre of the camp was engineers. So we did engineering work. We were supposed to do medical training, but we did engineer. Then the last week, they took us out on the field and devoted that to giving shots and how to wrap bandages and everything in the field.

And you still don't, at this point, have any idea where you're going to be going at this point we had no idea then they start turning around and breaking us up and shipping us out to different locations now I was sent down to with a group I knew none of them except from just being with them I was sent down to southeast.

It was about halfway between the English Channel and Bristol, the town of Bristol. Now, Bristol was a manufacturing town, and it was an important hub for the British. Well, anyway, I turned around, and we were halfway between. Now, on our one side, it seemed like there was a lot of airplanes. It must have been an airfield

because these cargo planes were coming in and out. And then later on, we find out that a lot of the fellows were living at home and all, they're not just in barracks. So, anyway, the rest of the fellas were living in homes and all their marriages and barrages. So, anyway, the rest of the outfit, when it was broken up, went to different things. Now,

one fella I'm going to tell you about later, him and I was drafted together. We went all through basic training, all through the medical training, and shipped out together. And we were together and separated in northern England.

And we turned around, and during the war, I'm going to come back today. And then during the war, we'll turn around and we met each other. But anyway, on the 4th of June the Germans came over to make a bombing run on Bristol the town of Bristol and the Yakut was so heavy

I said I never saw a German bomber maneuver to escape the flak any aircraft that German pilot did. But he put that plane like it was a pursuit plane. Harry Whitney didn't realize he had a whole load of bombs on board. He got over Bristol, dropped his bombs on his target, and came back. Yeah.

The British claim they got him going over the channel, but it's hard to believe. But I never saw a German bomber with a full load of bomb dive and everything else to avoid the flak. Yeah, that part of the... It's unbelievable. That book I was telling you about earlier talks about the similar things

that you saw I had no idea how tactical this was for so long where they would do this and the way the technology was back then they basically had enough to fly to the target drop and then they had to get back

because they run out of gas that's right that's a problem but anyway after that bombing then we turned around, and during that bombing, we had no holes to get in for security, had no place to go for security. There was a little wooded area at the end of the patch, the ground we were on, so we all had to go down and stand there, and we were watching the planes.

That's why we could see how they were maneuvered and all. And about a month or a month and a half before the D-Day was scheduled, or the 5th of June, they turn around and they start painting the white circles on the stripes, the white stripes on the fuselage of the bombers or on the planes, our planes,

and on the wings. And the reason, it made sense, because when our pursuit planes were flying out of Germany, a German 109 looked like a P-51 at a glance. One only want to have more curves to the outer wings, but when you're flying and diving on them, you can't recognize. So by having those marks on there,

our American plane could identify the Americans easier than the Germans. So if they didn't have the marking, they shot them. It's crazy how, like, because they're moving so fast throughout the clouds and the sky, and you've got to try to make sure you have your own. The stripes would catch your eye right away. Now, you said, if I heard it correctly, on June 4th is when you witnessed? With the bombing. Okay.

With that bombing. And then? June 5th was the scheduled landing right uh d-day landing but due to the weather condition they had gotten very heavy storm and the channel was really uh rough and uh heavy storming so they turned around and eisenhower postponed the landing now a lot of guys were in some of these smaller boats or going across on smaller boats. And they turned around, and a lot of them got seasick from the heavy waves.

But they turned around, and the next on the 6th, they got a report. The Eisenhower staff got a report that the weather was supposed to break for so many hours. We'll say maybe 12 hours or so. So it would calm down a little. So Eisenhower made a decision that they would have the landing on June 6th, the morning of June 6th. And that's when the day was officially scheduled for the 5th, wound up on the 6th. And D stands for date of and H stands for hour of the first troops moving.

When did you first, when were you first apprised of the plans for what were going to be D-Day? Like when did you find out? Nobody knew the plan. No were going to be d-day like when did we have nobody knew the plan no one no one knew and the lower echelon okay okay they now the higher echelon the colonels and generals of divisions or were given briefings up to at that point by the british and all of what they were saying and when when the 4th Division, now I just read an article, I didn't know it, but when the 4th Division was training for the landing, they trained in the States, then they went over to England, and they trained over there.

And a month before the D-Day was a maneuver called Slapped in Sands. And when they were practicing this maneuver for the landing of the 12th Division going in and the 4th Division going in on D-Day, they had a beach that was supposed to be similar to the one they were going to land on in France. And when they were going to land on in France. And when they were going in, the German U-boats came out of Cherbourg and caught the convoy and sunk several of the troop ships.

I forget how many, 600 or 700 were killed. And the landing itself was called off. And two fellows I knew who were two fellows were scheduled were on the beaches waiting for the landing to happen to observe

how they were the sergeants or battalion sergeants so I'm staff sergeant, never staff sergeant. I never supposed to observe the landing, make sure they see any floors or anything.

You said six or seven hundred people were killed? And nobody, and when they, people, and those who survived were taken to the hospital. And they, people, the nurses and doctors were sworn not to mention that affair. And it just came out only a few years ago.

That Slaxton Sands, because they didn't want the Germans to know how bad those sinkings were. And it was kept sacred for 50 years or more. Yeah, I want to see if we can pull this up. Were you saying Slap the Sands? Slap the Sands and for England. Okay.

Let's see if we can find that. I'd love to read some more info on this. I think the actual operation was Operation Tiger. Is that right? I don't know. I think the actual operation was Operation Tiger. Operation Tiger. Is that right? I don't know. I think that was the name of it.

I don't know if it's left in Shenzhou. I don't know. Rishi's on it over here. But the U-boats, there were three U-boats, I think, German U-boats, who came over from the Cherbourg port and sunk them. So nothing was said so that they would not know how much damage they'd done.

A whole engineer group was eliminated, I think. Whoa. Our artillery group was taken out. So we have it right here. We got Exercise Tiger Disaster at Slapton Stands 28th April

1944. April 24th.th it said we sailed along in fatal ignorance writes lieutenant eugene e extam a medical officer aboard the first of two tank landing ships to be sunk by german s boats off the southern coast of england on the night of 27 slash 28 april 1944 the attack which happened to be in the midst of an Allied dress rehearsal for the Normandy landings, killed hundreds of men. Some of them succumbed to blast injuries and burns, others to drowning or hypothermia. The disaster that beheld Convoy T4 was not a fluke. It was a product of an effort by the Germans to disrupt preparations for the invasion of northwestern France, and it happened as a result of actionable intelligence from the left wafa and germany's bdnst tank landing ships lsts slow unwieldy and

cavernous were ideal targets for fast torpedo boats and patrol who which patrolled those areas that the german admiralty determined most likely to host enemy convoys and training exercises with only one escort and no meaningful radio capabilities, Convoy T-4 stood little chance. That's the first time I ever heard of that. I never heard of that one. That's nuts, man. So they were getting us.

And this is, you know, we had. It was a fluke. Yeah. That was accidental. They caught those ships and they took. And the British guy, Calfer, the commander of the British guy, Yeah. That was accidental. They caught those ships and they took... And the British guy, Kelfler, the commander of the British got... Because...

I'll bet he did. He wasn't secure in the landing. Yeah. Probably got chewed out a bit. He did. But... Keep in mind, though, I mean, Normandy was the largest invasion, seaboard invasion in history at that point. And they were so close to enemy occupied territory.

To keep any of it a secret would have been so difficult. I mean, there's stories of inflatable tanks that were used. Dummy. Oh, the dummy. Yeah. Army. 15th Army. Yeah.

Patton. Exactly. Yeah, because General Patton had slapped a soldier in sicily and he got reprimanded and the germans didn't think because he was he was such a brilliant general that the allies would be serious about reprimanding him and that he would have to be involved in normandy so they took him and they had him in charge of these dummy outfits with the fake names, fake insignia. And it was all decoy. The Germans thought when you guys, you know, they thought all the allies were going to land at Calais. Well, you see that lately where they had these dummy tanks and all,

and they blew them up. And they would blow them up and they looked, the arrow looked good. They looked real. So they thought for sure Calais was the closest land on France. Calais was a narrow area of the channel. Where they were. So that's why they were so sure they were going to land at Calais.

And they put them there and it became such a decoy. That's why Hitler would not release their Panzer Division on D-Day, when they were being attacked, because he was sure they were going to come in with that other army. It's crazy how much intelligence really graduated during World War II and became the thing that was in charge of the world with all the different things they did. There was the one that was made famous by a movie a couple years ago on Netflix

called Operation Mincemeat. Did you ever see that? I don't think I saw that one. So this was the – you probably heard of this mission at some point. This was the one where the – I think it was British and U.S. intelligence working together, but British – Britain was running it. The British and U.S. intelligence working together, but Britain was running it. The British had the most control. Yeah, where they tricked the Nazis into thinking that they were going to invade from the south.

I want to say it was like Greece instead of Sicily by getting a drunk dead guy's body. A major or a colonel, I forget. He was a British officer. officer well and he had the papers they found found the papers on yep yep exactly so they they they got a random dead guy and then named him this new colonel dropped his body into the into the southern shores of spain where the nazis would pick it up. And then they're like, oh, shit, they're going to Greece. And then we got into Sicily.

Stuff like that blows my mind. Right, yeah. It's unbelievable. So stuff is pretty interesting. And the trouble is we didn't know anything at the time. We don't know anything at the time we don't know towns mostly you don't remember towns or any of that

where things were going to happen but after they happened now in history we're starting to find out I found out I went in the same spot twice once in September of 44

of 44, and once in the beginning of January or March, or February or March of 45. That was January of 45. Where was that? That's in Chenille, Eiffel, in Belgium. When we get to it, I'll talk about about okay but we never knew it we were in and out but i got a interesting story there all right we're gonna get to that soon we were on d day though and and when that went down the reason i had asked like when you guys were ready was

because i didn't know if maybe like the morning of when they were literally shipping out and people were like oh where are they going if they start to tell you i don't recall if maybe like the morning of when they were literally shipping out and people were like, oh, where are they going? If they start to tell you. I don't recall. All we heard, the planes flying, taken off from the airport nearby, which meant the airborne had to be on the other side or within that area. And airborne, whether both the 101st or the 82nd were both there, I don't know.

But they had to be in that area because of the plane. That's where they got on the planes. Okay. A week before D-Day, though, a lot of the soldiers were confined to camp. They were locked down. Even the soldiers who were not going in on D-Day. Really? Because they didn't want any leaks.

I mean, people talk about leaks today but back then i mean it was even more important that you couldn't have anyone because there was so much effort was put into trying to fool the germans like you mentioned that we were going to land somewhere else the you know if we think omaha beach was bad right now with the amount of casualties imagine if the germ Germans had been prepared and knew that we were coming. Ten times worse. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't know if it's like rewriting history to say this, but if they've been prepared, I almost don't know how that could have been successful. Well, even up until almost noon, I believe Eisenhower was seriously considering calling

them back. Yeah. Because there were so many casualties. There's a town in Bedford, Virginia. The 29th Division... Why he was going to call them back? Omaha Beach. On Omaha? Omaha Beach turned out to be a disaster.

It had a lot of problems. But we'll get to that after we catch up. Okay. Yeah. Because one thing,. They had a lot of problems. But we'll get to that after we catch up. Okay. Yeah, because one thing, I've had a lot of veteran friends of mine, not World War II guys, but guys who served a long time and saw battle, who certainly have talked to a lot of World War II vets

who survived D-Day and stuff, and they said Saving Private Ryan, the opening scene on the beach is probably one of the more accurate depictions in military history in the movies. And every time I, because it's a movie, it's not the real thing, but every time I watch that

and you just see the open, the boat come down and just, oh my God, I can't even, I can't even fathom what would be going through my mind as that hatch comes down and just, oh my God, I can't even, I can't even fathom what would be going through my mind as that hatch comes down. Well, that unit that they're representing, that's the 29th division. Besides the Rangers, you know, Tom Hanks and all of them, that's where the 29th division landed, which was the Maryland, Virginia National Guard. It's called the Blue and Gray because of the Confederate Union ties.

And there's this little town called Bedford virginia where the d-day memorial is now there was because back then companies you know abcd used to be based on where they were from because a lot of these were national guard guys why so many are from that area because they're all national guard and they changed that later in the war because they realized this is not the way to do it because in that in one day about 22 of them from this little town were all killed and so that town d-day i think yeah has the highest per capita uh of men killed uh during d during the war actually take from one place they gotta get in their game and kill they gotta be killed from your group you know yeah absolutely it makes sense understood one thing i just wanted to mention if you don't mind

when you were talking about the whole mincemeat thing right spain uh you know they talk about these neutral countries spain was neutral but in war there really is no such thing as neutrality which is so unfortunate even ireland you were talking about how you saw Liverpool all blown out. Well, I've interviewed veterans who survived that, who grew up there. And they told me that the German bombers, because they couldn't see anything over England, but they used the lights of Ireland. They would fly across the Irish sea, determine where they were based on the lights in Ireland, and then circle back and bomb the UK. That's right. That's nuts.

You never think of that. That's right. The Irish people proclaimed proudly that we were neutral, but in a sense, they weren't. They were accidentally underwritten. That's wild. Those are the things we also don't think about. That's wild. Those are the things we also don't think about. You don't think about.

That's right. Yeah. You know, we did that here. There's famous stories. It wasn't just the Jersey Shore. It was up the eastern seaboard because of U-boats. Right. But I found this out on episode, I think, like 31 with Dr. John Schneider.

He was telling me about it. But in America, we had this like citizen agreement that during World War II at maybe it was 7 o'clock or something, everyone would turn their lights off. Right. And they lived at the shore because the U-boats wouldn't be able to see exactly where shore was. You know Ocean City? Uh-huh. You know Sea Isle? Oh, yeah. Well, in between there is Strathmere.

Oh, I know Strathmere well. Do you? Well, next is between Strathmere and Seattle. There's a little section called Whale Beach. Whales had washed up there, I think. That's where it got its name. But anyway, there was a gully right off the beach. And a German U-boat used to sit in that gully. Off Strathmere?

Off of Strathmere. Whoa. After the war, the captain of that submarine turned around and bought ground. He had the ground right along the beach. He had some places up, small buildings for summer residence. And they turned around, and when the 62 storm came,

I washed them out. And the state had to get him across the highway on the other side of, what the heck they call it, the road between. Route 9? No, no. Parkway? It's on the beach.

I can't think of the name. It's from Sea Isle. Ocean Drive? Ocean Drive. That's what I'm trying to say. I know, though. I had the wrong thought in my mind. Ocean Drive.

Yeah. Well, they had to give him, after the 62 storm, on the other side of the highway. Whoa. Which was the mainland more. That's why he was. The base behind him. He was that close, though, in the goalie.

They must have went down to the Doughbill or them for a beer. That's awesome. And I just talk English. And I learn to talk English. And I watch a brogue and it was only a couple blocks away. This is just

in the context of time 80 years ago is not that long ago. I had a place in Strathmore that's why I said I could tell you. Oh, so you know Strathmore real well. Yeah, I know the Deauville. I know the Deauville well. I know what you're talking about.

But it's just crazy how many layers there were to this thing. Right, yeah. So many. So D-Day happens, though. You're not... On D-Day, the ships are turning around. Now, there's still rough seas from the storm.

It's turning around and the to come off the ships to get into the landing craft the fellas had to climb down what they call cargo nets. Big rope nets.

They turned hanging over the side of the ships. And the fellows would have to, they would be fast at the top, had to climb down these nets and get in and bounce a boat. Now, when the wave would come, it would lift the little boat and drop the big boat as it would go by. And then when the next wave came, it would go under the big boat, it would raise the big boat,

and lower the little. Well, you had a time now, so when you had to jump from the cargo net over to the landing craft, and they're going up and down. If you get slipped or anything, you get crushed. Oh, my God.

That's why a lot of guys were lost that crushed. Oh, my God. That's why a lot of guys were lost that way. Oh, my God. And they had full cargo. They had their equipment with them, too. Exactly. If they fell in between with their pack, there were so many things that could go wrong that day. Could go wrong, and you don't even think of them.

No. But then when they landed, a lot of these landing crafts hit sandbars off the beach. Yeah. So it would be deep on the other side. So the guys would jump off, and they'd go right down because of their equipment so heavy and it was so deep there a lot of guys are lost that way and then like we said the boats would open and they're just getting well actually when they open the boat they fall you jump out yeah they start running they get into the water and they go right down with their equipment. Yeah. They have 60 to 100 pounds of actual equipment.

It's weighing them down. Yeah. That's, wow. So did you have friends who were there on actual D-Day who landed? Did you have friends who? I fell. Friends from the 4th Division Association, yeah. Did you have friends who fell that day as well?

They never talked, but that was some of the things they pointed out. Now, when did you land on Utah Beach? I landed on D plus 8. D plus 8. The division landed on D day, H hour. The 4th Infantry Division landed D day,Day, H-Hour, on Utah Beach. And so, but you came eight days later. I came in with a group to be in the VAC hospital, establish the first VAC hospital in the Utah Beach area.

Oh. And when we landed, we turned around and on the 15th, we were supposed to rendezvous with 21 nurses and I think three doctors to establish. In other words, we didn't know it up to this point

we were only a paper organization. So until we rendezvoused with the doctors nurses we can set up the hospital so we so on the 15th the we landed on the

14th the 15th the 4th division at 10 o'clock in the morning put an emergency call down for medics or that's when it reached us. And they turned around and our whole group, we were supposed to rendezvous with the doctors and nurses

at noontime to establish the hospital. At 10 o'clock, they broke our entire outfit up. We had all the personnel for the operate, set up and operate in the back hospital. The enlisted personnel from Sergeant down.

We had, and the ambulance drivers were sent to Fourth Medical. So the entire Fourth Division sent an emergency call down for a medic. So they broke us up, and I wound up going to the 12th Infantry Regiment, and then from there they transferred me to the 2nd Battalion medics. And where were they when you got to them? Around the 11th to the 13th, I think, they were up near Monaberg, outside of Monaberg.

Monaberg. And Monaberg, Uctaw Beach wasn't the correct beach. The beach they were supposed to land at, Uctaw, the name of Uctaw, was to be a mile further west than it was towards Sherbrooke. Okay. The port of Sherbrooke or the Atlantic Ocean, whichever you want to call.

Sherbrooke is on the channel and also on the Atlantic Ocean. The bottom of it is the Atlantic Ocean. So that's all Atlantic Ocean on the north side of it. So anyway, they turned around, and when they landed, the tide carried the ships further to the west, further to the east. So it could have been the tides that were coming in instead of going out. I don't know. But if it carried to the east,

it had to be coming in. And they were supposed to have been, the tides were supposed to be the controlling point for the landing. So, you know, it don't make sense. But anyway, when they fourth landed, they landed on a beach that was a mile west of where they should have landed, or east of where they should have landed.

And it may have been a godsend because it was all flooded behind it. The area in the Germans didn't have it heavy fortified. Oh, wow. They didn't expect them to land in a flooded area. So it was an accidental godsend condition, like you might say, where they landed at this beach. And then they had to decide. When they got on the beach, there was a house on the beach.

The plans didn't call for a house, which told the general that it was a wrong beach. And the colonel. So they turned around, and now the general was Teddy Roosevelt, Jr., who was a brigadier general of the 4th Division. He was the assistant general. And General Barton was the commanding officer. He was the assistant, told you.

And he insisted to Barton to be able to land. And he wrote a letter and all because Barton refused because Teddy Roosevelt had been wounded in World War I in the knee. And he had calcium in the knee. Oh, okay. They didn't have to cut his knee off, though. No. Okay.

So he had his knee, but it was a stiff knee. Got it. He walked with a cane. So that's why he walked on D-Day with a cane and only his pistol, because that were one wound. But anyway, he insisted to Barton, and Barton finally gave in and permitted him to go with his excuses and all. And he's the only

general officer, only general who landed on D-Day on the first way throughout the entire landing. That's why he got

the Congressional Medal of Honor. Because when they got there, they had to make a determination whether to send the balance of the troops to the correct landing area, beach, or to go from there. And Teddy Roosevelt made a decision that we will go from here. And they figured out a way to get across the flooded area, get the troops through the flooded area

and across, because there was a crossway nearby, but it was zeroed in by the Germans. Zeroed means they had it all, knew all the positions. So they had it zeroed in. So they couldn't use that to bring the troops in. So they brought them through the flooded area.

And now how they did it? I'll leave a secret out now. How? The old bucket brigade. Old bucket brigade? They turned around and lined the tall men in the center because they figured it could only be so deep. And then I worked them down.

And as the smaller men would come in and lose their footing on the floor of the ocean, they would turn around and be floated across from one to another like a bucket being passed on. And they got them across. That's how they got across. Now, that that came from somebody was involved in that deal that came from one of your guys one of the fellows was involved so many things to plan for alessi can you pull up just this should be like a graphic map if we google it of a map of the invasion of Normandy. It'll show – it'll probably show the U.S., where the British troops were, where the Canadian troops were.

But it was – it's a wide area. It's like one little spot. I forget how many miles it covered. Yeah. Maybe that third one. Does that look good? It takes like an hour and a half to get from one end to another. The first one off the Atlantic wasantic was utah the second was omaha then there was gold juno and sword oh yeah okay perfect so

this is a vox animation so you can kind of see them spreading out uh-huh as they as they land and then they're going to go south through france can can you can we edit the uh search to invasion of normandy map by allied country and see i there was one i was looking at really got a good selection here yeah i i should have i should have brought this up before oh yeah utah beach is on its own that's what we want yeah in between utah and omaha's point to hawk where the rangers climbed the cliffs? Right, the cliffs, right. Wait, they were climbing cliffs? Yeah. Those are the rangers. 105, 110-foot cliff. Whoa. So you can see, so U.S., U.S., and then British going on to Gold,

Canadian going on to Juneau. You see that one in between near Omaha Beach? Yeah, in between Omaha and Gold? That's Pointe du Hoc. It's a 105 or 110-foot cliff. And it was being protected by machine gun fire, right? And mortars. Of Nazis.

They had pillboxes sitting up on top of it with guns in. That's why they were trying to knock out the guns so they couldn't hit the ships or the landing on the beaches. It's amazing. How the guys could climb that, The guns so they couldn't hit the ships or the landing on the beaches. It's amazing. How the guys could climb that, and they were being shot at from above and dropping hand grenades on them and all. How does anyone survive that?

I don't know, but they did it. Yeah. I think the 5th Ranger made the landing, and the 2nd Ranger came up the side and went around the Ranger. For anyone who's seen Band of Brothers, if you notice the Airborne landed mostly in the Utah Beach sector, the 82nd and the 101st. The 82nd was supposed to land around St. Mary's.

But instead of that, some landed in St. Mary's. But some of the 101st spread all over and landed in that flooded area and drowned. But there's a scene in the series, you know, what Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment did. They knocked out some artillery, Dick Winters and his group. And that's some of the accounting of why there was not as many heavy casualties on Utah Beach, because a lot of those artillery pieces were aimed at Utah Beach, and so the casualties on Utah Beach compared to Omaha were a lot lighter. Yeah. Thank God. They had less than 200. Now, like you're mentioning, when they hunted them first, the first thing the Germans had, trees.

They found out trees. What are you looking for? Tree trunks. Tree trunks, yeah. Sticking out to look like guns out of the pillboxes. Here they found they were back in an open field where the Germans had a battery set up. And that's what the 100 first ran into. When they started assembling, a couple of them ran into it.

They were able to go in and blow it up. And the Germans didn't know what was coming. They didn't expect them. And you had some Philly guys in there, too. You had Babe Heffron, Garnier. The 101st was well represented by Philly. Yeah. Very cool.

So you were starting this by explaining the 4th Infantry Division they landed. Once you went in D plus 8, you were then sent to where they were to join up with them, right? I joined them outside of – I joined in Monterburg, in Monterburg. We were in pillbox along the side. It was high ground around the side of Montenberg can we pull up Montenberg same as

Scherberg Scherberg outside of Scherberg they had the high ground too yeah yeah pillbox well the Germans had the pillbox

and they that's where I think I never got sat down to figure it out I think that would probably be about a mile to where they should have landed in that area because it was supposed to be heavily fortified. And where they landed was not heavily fortified.

So like I say, it was a godsend where they landed. And they got off the beach with less than 200 casualties. One place 197, another place 199. where they landed, and they got off the beach with less than 200 casualties. One place 197, another place 199. Whereas I don't remember the casualties on Omaha offhand, but it was insane. When they came in Omaha, they ran into heavy, not only that, I mean, I just was over there. And in a few, about a half a mile, maybe a quarter of a mile,

there's this big high dune. And they had to go up over those dunes and get down. So that was their trouble. They ran into a wall, like, more or less.

Did you guys, back in England, while you were there, when they did this invasion, I would imagine you guys got word, maybe inside, correct me if I'm wrong. We didn't get word. You didn't get word a couple days later about whether it was successful or not? I think we had to wait until the stars dropped. I forget when they came out. It may have been maybe a week later. So they didn't tell you it was even successful for a week?

No. Wow. To my remembrance, no. Wow. So when did you get your orders that you were going to be dropping in? Like the day of? We were given orders to move to the port. We moved to Plymouth, England. We were there

a couple days. That's the first time I saw American Marines in England. They had the Marines who were in their dress and they were security around the port. So that we wouldn't take off. Deserve. And anyway, we were in there a couple days, two or three days. so that we wouldn't take off, desert.

And anyway, we were in there a couple of days, two or three days. They turned around and took us down, put us on the ship. On the 13th, the night of the 13th, or the afternoon of the 13th, and that night we sailed out into the channel, and when we woke up, we were across the channel off of Utah Beach. Whoa. So when you landed on Utah obviously we've already taken the

beaches at this point. Right. They were all cleaned up. Right. But do you remember like could you see the aftermath still? No. Like I said we were moving fast. You had to get off. You didn't have time to stand and look around.

But you glanced around, and I don't remember seeing it. I couldn't get over how the beaches had been cleaned up from the original battles. Totally. Wow. Yeah. I didn't see any equipment or anything that I can remember. I mean, this is when we started the giddy up in the war because at this point it's like all right let's go south and and then east as fast

as we can and get this thing over you when you met up with the fourth infantry division where did they where did you guys first have a mission to go and what were you guys supposed to do all right when we first came ashore the division came ashore the eighth regiment came ashore first and their assignment was to go inland and i think they went inland the first day seven or seven and a half mile inland near saint maricolese that why. So units of the 4th Division, the 8th Infantry Regiment, made contact with the rear. So they turned around, and the 8th went in, and they were supposed to come in and make a turn,

go in so far and make a turn. The 22nd Infantry Regiment of the 4th Division came in, and they went up along the coast. And then the 12th turned around and came in and did a center, an old football play they said. Made a center plunge right up the center and they turned and the

three of them went up towards Sherbrooke. Their assignment was Sherbrooke and the city of Sherbrooke, the port city of Sherbrooke. Are we looking at a map of this, Rishi, right now? I'm just turning to the screen now. What did we pull up here? Yeah, there's a website that has all the different divisions and their battle routes. And so if you zoom in, you can actually see this is where the 4th Division went. If you click on it again, it should should expand and then you can zoom in and so they landed as Jake is saying

right in on Utah Beach yeah and then they actually head back towards Cherbourg where there was a lot of jurors right turn and hide it each yeah I saw and there was no I'm rule because I read something that that's north. I thought England was north. Well, obviously, you know, when you're in the foxholes, right, all you know what's going on is in front of you. You only know where you're going. But I just read something that Cherbourg is north of where they came in,

which meant I'm always under the impression that Normandy, across from it, would have been north of England, would have been England in the north. I'm amazed you can see that. Well, anyway, they went, and our objective was, now the 79th came in behind us, and the 9th Division came in right near us at the same time. The 9th came up

and went around our left flank. And the 79th came in like it was our backup. And there also was one battalion, one regiment, I'm sorry, one regiment of the

one regiment of the 60th Division, I think it was. Or not 60th. Perhaps I forgot. 160th Regiment. And they came in behind, too. The regiment came in behind us. And our 159th was behind and another one wound up

being on the original landing down with on Gold Beach or one of them they got the arrowhead for the initial landing if you came in on the second wave you didn't get it, only the first wave

got that arrowhead so you see the cluster there it's an arrow like an arrow on it that indicates they were on a first landing what was the because obviously you guys in some ways are spreading out

to be able to go through France what was the I'm trying to think how to say this. I guess first combat? Yeah, yeah. What was the first combat you remember seeing? That's a great way to ask it. Combat, we were in – normally they consider having hedgerows.

And every hedgerow was like somebody would take a fence off 50 or 100 yards, and you'd have a hedgerow. You'd go over. I just came back from there. I'm saying I can't find it. Nobody else said they'd done away with them. But anyway, they had these hedgerows. We had to climb over. Some were maybe 3 1⁄2 feet high, some were 4 feet high,

some were higher. Anyway, we would have to climb over them to get to the next field. And after we got out of the Normandy, we got to Sherbrooke and came out of Normandy and then worked our way up and had to break through at St. Louis. We were going in from the hedgerow country,

which is in Normandy, to the open country leading to Paris. It was more level. So our fighting, the way our headquarters and all operated was different.

Our battalion aid station operated different than the day after we got into the open country. We turned around and we had, normally we didn't have that many buildings where we could take and set up an aid station. So we had to do it in a tent or just in the open field. Where at the Sherbrooke

we turned around and got in there and then we started taking and moving into buildings. Maybe a barn or most of the troops would move into the barn. But it had to be spread out. And you have your front line

to hold the line and you have the others would be able to infiltrate into it if your headquarters personnel could get into a house or something. Now, when we went into Cherbourg, or first on the way to Cherbourg, I think it was about the 23rd, I'll say, of September, of June. We turn around, and the Germans, we're crossing this open field, and the Germans opened up and threw white phosphorus shells on us.

Now, white phosphorus is when it hits you, a piece gets in your body, it keeps burning, and it's got to be removed. And the only way we could treat it was to take water and try to saturate it and hold it down until they could get back and get it removed. But it would keep burning. But anyway, we had a barrage of that. Some guys got killed.

Now, I saw the Catholic chaplain, Chaplain Freeze, out on the battlefield doing that barrage, treating fellas or saying prayers over fellas who got hit with that white phosphorus. And that was fooling around

him. But I gave, he got to give him, but everything changed because we all worked. The book used to call for it. Now you find out how to do things and you start changing things. You don't go out and feel like you used to. You bring them in to the AIDS station and get them. And that's for the chaplain. I used to feel sorry for his age for his what his

cha his uh uh age the fellow that worked with him why because arch father freeze came in on atlanta they all the three of them uh chaplains for the uh for the uh regiment came in on the landing craft. All of them came in on. They had to come in with the aid station. So the others went back to regiment after they got set up, where Father Freeze, who was a Catholic chaplain, he's turned around and he stayed at the 2nd Battalion throughout the entire war.

He got chewed out for it, but he stayed anyway. And he lost a jeep and his trailer with his equipment and all up during the breakthrough of the bowls. And he just got it back and he lost it again as we were going through Prune. And he lost the Jeep anyway. Anyway, he turned around

and the book used to do this and that. Well, now you find out you can't just go away. The book called for you. This book's got to be rewritten. And they learned from doing because, like I said, we fought a different type war going through

a hedgerow country than we did when we got to open country yeah because we moved the houses or they could put a 10 up where they could bring in make an aid station for people do you remember like you kind of mentioned it in passing there but when when you have this first real incident where the nazis are throwing white phosphorus at you guys you mentioned some guys fell and now i'm just thinking of it 20 year old you 19 20 year old you i think you're 19 we have to pick them up. Right. Try to retrieve. If they would fall and it was a wound. Now, see, you had an aid man. A company would have an aid man with it.

Not only one, but the different companies in the battalion would have an aid man assigned to them. That aid man traveled just like he was an infantryman. He lived with them day and night. And if anybody got hit, normally they would call a doc for treatment. But some would call A-man, but some would call doc.

And that would mean he would have, but some would call Doc. And that would mean he would have to get out of his hole and go treat them. They'd turn around to try to stop the bleeding. And then if the A-man deemed a wound was serious and the man had to be evacuated and couldn't do it on his own. Now, if they got wounded, the aid man would patch them up. And then they would send them to the aid station to get treated.

If they turned around and weren't able to go back by themselves or have a buddy help them back to the aid station, then they needed a litter team. They would call for a litter team to come out of the second battalion aid station, come out and retrieve

that person off the battlefield. And the idea was to get them out of the line of fire as fast as possible so they could get back, get medical treatment, and get back up to do their job. Now, you're talking about the job aspect of it and how it works, and that's serious stuff.

But, you know, on a more, like, I guess, personal, emotional level, you're 19 years old. You've been doing hard training now over the last year. You've been building up for this moment, but now you're here. You're out there, and you're watching dudes die. Was there a moment where you're like, holy shit? No, but it was many a prayer said. Yes.

Many a prayer by people who would never think of saying a prayer. They may deny it, but they said it. Oh, yeah. And Patton already came out and said that. You know, so, yeah, a prayer was asking God to help and watch over and protect you and get through that, the situation. What was that like, though, to see that? I mean, are there thoughts going through your mind like,

I can't believe? You say it to yourself, and, you know, it wasn't out loud or anything, but you say it to yourself and to God. But it was, I said many a prayer. Many a time when they're dropping a mortar or a tac-to-yer or something, or a shelling, and you're laying there and it's going,

and just going over you and missing you, you're praying that it keeps missing you. Where were they throwing, where were they launching white phosphorus at you again? It was going through around, on our way up to Sherbrooke. It was about two days out at Sherbrooke when they threw in a barrage of

white phosphorus. Then they turned around and as we pushed them back, then on the 24th they turned and were up on Turnerville, outskirts of Sherbrooke

which was high ground and they had pillboxes a couple of pillboxes up there and they used to shoot down now one day on the 23rd I was going across the field and they opened up and they had to feel a fire

from the hills and they had to feel a fire from the hills or the pillboxes on us. And I was going across and they started opening up. We hit the ground and one shell, it must have been an anti-aircraft shell, it was about that big, hit the ground. I heard a thud.

But due to the fact the ground was soft, it went in and didn't blow up. And it missed my left foot about an inch when I saw it. But you had some very close calls, you know, without getting hit. Sometimes you got hit. Wasn't that from a German tank? No, no, not that one. That's later on. That's back in July.

I'm only up to June. We're still in June. That's wild. So you guys are making your way towards Paris, though. We're making our way towards Cherbourg. Yeah, but wait, can I look at that map again? We're making our way towards paris though we're making our way towards sherbert yeah but oh wait can i look at it can i look at that map again we're making our way to sherbert we captured sherbert on the 25th of june june sherbert the the city was okay on the 28th or 29th there was the germans

had built a pillbox in the uh port out the water. And they got in that. And it took us three days, I think it was, 28. It took us three days to bomb them and show them before they surrendered. Yeah, in my head, I was thinking Sherbrooke was in a different spot. Then we came out of Sherbrooke, and we went back. Now, when we got back, we were supposed to get a few days rest. Well, that was July the 2nd we got back, and the chaplain, he set up and had a service, a church service on the 3rd. I turned around, and on the 3rd, I went into

the church service. As I'm walking in, a guy coming in the other direction, I see talking to some fellow. Here was a fellow I went to school with. But I never got... What a small world. The service started, so I didn't get to get

over to talk to him. So after the service, I was going to get over, and I didn't know it was him or not. You look a little different in uniform. And they turned around, and so I looked, and they disappeared. So I turned around and wrote home to my sister and asked if he was. So by the time she got in touch with his family and we found out harry was in the first battalion i'm in the second battalion of the fourth of these 12th

infantry regent so it was him i saw but i never got to talk to him and we were some tough battles after i saw i never thought anymore about it. Where were some of those? Like in Carrington? Well, all through, we had some tough fighting through these hedgerow countries. The Germans would try and make a stand. And in some of the towns,

they'd try to do it. You'd run into some heavy fighting in the air. Sometimes it'd take a couple days or a week to get through, to break them up. What's the vibe at this time? Like once you guys are there in land, it's been successful post-D-Day, you're starting to get some ground.

Are you guys starting to think like, oh, we're going to win this thing? No, no. Not at all yet? i don't think so i don't think until we got up into it after paris was taken then they very start thinking the command start thinking this too that was in august right when they took paris that was august august 25th so in we were in we were on julyrd. So we got down in July. The 3rd of July, Teddy Roosevelt came up to congratulate us for the job we did in capturing Sherbrooke, the city of Sherbrooke. And I wish us all well.

We were supposed to be going into a bivouac area for a few days. the city of Sherbrooke, which was all well and all. We were supposed to be going into a bivouac area for a few days. But instead of that, the next day, we wound up, we were put on trucks and taken down from the 7th Corps over to the 5th Corps, which is where the 29th and the 1st Divisions were. But the 83rd Division was in there,

and they were given an assignment to cut a highway between Pierre and St. Lowe. So they turned around, and they ran into so much heavy opposition. A tank, if I recall, it was a crack panzer division came from the Eastern Front, who did good, who were given a high mark, stood against the 83rd. And also an outstanding airborne outfit from the German outfit was against them. And they ran in so much heavy opposition that we were rushed over to help them out. Oh, wow. And we'd take over to see if we could get this.

So we were there, and on the 10th of July, we were bombarded with a mortar barrage. Our headquarters and the aid station was hit with a heavy mortar barrage. And a sergeant who took care of the mail for the aid station was killed, and a couple of the medics were wounded. And then from there, on the 14th, we were on a 14th we were on a patrol where we were moving up a hedgerow now the area on our side of the hedgerow was

considered a swampy area wasn't all water but in heavy tide it was swampy it wasn't solid ground when the other side where the roads were the Germans had they had a't solid ground. On the other side where the roads were, the Germans had, they had a good solid ground.

So they had their tanks and all. We couldn't bring any tanks up to support us or artillery or anything because of the softness of the ground. Anyway, on the 14th, we were up all day to try to find an opening, get across the hedgerow to cut off the supply line, the German supply line to St. Louis. So anyway, we're on our way back because we can't stay there.

We're on our way back for the night, and we're leading the withdrawal of the company. And they turn around and all at once a German tank puts its 88 gun over a hedgerow. So we spotted it and we all

scattered. And we jumped in. I jumped in an old German abandoned foxhole. And as I'm falling I hear bang pow that was the last thing I remember there I didn't know it but it hit the top of the hole

and blew part of the hole in on me I was knocked unconscious and didn't know it and the entire when they came down when the German tank withdrew, they turned around and came over and must have checked. So I was covered with debris and unconscious.

They figured I was dead. So they turned around and reported me as being killed. Oh, my God. So I turned around and once I heard this funny noise in the ground, and I finally came to. I didn't know I was knocked out. So I came to, and I heard this noise like something crawling. So I gently get up, and people go over the end of the hall I was in,

and I see it was American soldiers walking. And so I climbed out of the home, and I go over, and the last two guys are gone, and I say something to them about their company. He said, we're the last two men of the company. We're the rear guard. So I said, oh, fine. So I followed them in.

The rest of it, we was leading that whole company, or two companies that withd had withdrawn for the day. So I don't know how long I was knocked out, but it must have been a while. And they reported you as dead. So when I get back, I followed them in. When the company turned to where the Bidwack area was, I turned to where the aid station area was to my left. So I come walking in, and my CO was a medical officer,

and his assistant was a medical officer. At that time, we had two medical officers. They turned around, and one said something to me, and he turned around, and all at once, he got this funny, strange look on him. The CO got the strange look. He said, you think you saw a ghost? Well, he comes over to me, points his finger,

said, what are you doing here? You're reported killed. So I don't know what my answer was, whether the devil wasn't ready for me or what. I don't know. So I go walk over to where my equipment is, the hole, and he come over and he says, get your stuff. I'm sending you back to regiment.

He realized that I did not until years later, until things started adding up. But then I found out that I had been knocked down. And then, so I was back at regiment that night and got to sleep. So I'm back there in a farm yard where the regiment was, and we were sleeping in a barn. So I turned around, and I was out in the yard, and, oh, once I looked up, and these, I forgot,

three or four planes come over, over treetop. Here are three German 109s, Messerschmitts. They must have been coming back from a raid and they were flying real low. So I turn around and go over. I sit down to

write a letter home to my parents. I start writing a letter and all at once a bird or a pigeon put a deposit on the top of my letterhead. So I had to get rid of the letter and start over. But the next day

they came and picked me up and took me back. So on the 16th, that was the 14th, the 15th I was at Benjamin, the 16th. The 15th, I was at regiment. The 16th, our litter team was sent back up to the forward position to try to find a way to get through to cut the supply line of the Germans. That's July 16th. That's July 16th. That's July 16th.

So while we're there, they turn around and I'm back up. And all the line troops are lined up. The whole company's lined up along the hedgerow. And the colonel in charge of the battalion was there, and he was directing them. They were pinned down by one or two snipers out in the way. But this other couple of us went out in the field next to us. Now we know it's swampy, but to dig and see if we could dig down.

And we were trying to dig a hole. Every time we would stand up to use our shovel to dig, we would get shot at. But it didn't hit us. It was hitting near us. So we didn't know whether it had observation or not. So we turned around. This other fellow and I finally laid down.

We had decided the day before to carry trench knives for any occasion we came up. We had a couple of bandages or anything. So anyway, we start digging in with a trench knife, and another fellow comes crawling over to borrow a shovel. So all at once, he crawls back, and we keep digging, and he comes back. What are you doing here?

He said, right where I was while I was over here, a shell hit right where he was going I was over here, a shell hit right where he was going to dig. So he gave that one up. And we had to keep digging. And then all of a sudden, a sniper,

the colonel stuck his head up once too often in the same spot. And the sniper got him right between the eyes so we had to evacuate him instead of uh we're trying to get through i have a a battle going on so we evacuate the colonel he was or he was only a major then he was put in for a colonel. But he led our, from Normandy, from Montenberg, all we threw up. And you were shot between the eyes?

Right between the eyes. O'Malley, Major O'Malley. Brutal. That was the end of that. So that night, we didn't know it, but that morning the colonel was informed that we were being relieved from that spot that night.

We were going to be relieved, go back from the 83rd Division back to the 4th Division, back in the 7th Corps. So we turned around, and we didn't go off anymore. So when they brought the troops back, we turned around, and it went back to the 4th Division around and went back to the 4th Division and became part of the 4th Division again. We were with the 83rd up to that point. Is this when you start turning the focus on marching in the direction of Paris? No, that's right. They turned around and they were getting ready for the breakthrough at St. Lowe.

Now, we went, Carentan is where we were located, and we turned around and we went back and joined the rest of the division at Carentan, getting ready for the, yeah, the breakthrough.

St. Lowe. I couldn't think of St. Long. The breakthrough of St. Long. Your memory is insanely good. It's getting terrible, like I said. If my memory is as good as yours at 100, I'll be very happy. But anyway, we turned around and we

went back and joined them. And then we were there preparing for the breakthrough. And on the 20th, we moved on up, moving up. And the 8th and 22nd regiments were both online. The 12th regiment of the 4th Division was in reserve, so we were in the hill behind them. On the 24th, or the 23rd, they took our steel helmets from the medics,

and they took them back and painted the red cross on them. So that's when we first upped it up when we didn't wear them with a cross on them. But they put the red cross on them. So then on the 24th, we got our helpers back. And that afternoon or evening, they turned around and started, Germans started shelling us. And a couple of shells came in with a funny sound to them,

a noise to them. And all at once, they started hollering, gas. What was that? Gas. So it became a gas attack. Well, we found out later, a fellow was going to want a gas for his Jeep. He wanted a can of gas to pour into his Jeep. And when he said gas, somebody picked it up.

Oh, my God. And I understand that. It went all the way back to the beaches. From St. Louis all the way back to the beaches from St. Louis, we went back to the beaches, the gas attack. But anyway, we're laying there a couple hours in the hot barn with gas masks on. Oh, my God.

And we have fellows coming in saying, you've got to get me a gas mask. Well, where is it? Well, he threw it away. The carriage is junk in it. And now he needs a gas man. He don't have one. We had the regiment come around and get all their gas masks out.

And those that didn't have it, they had to evacuate them. But anyway, that's how the funny things developed. But then the next morning, the 24th, they turn around, the bombers come over. Now we're sitting on the hill before the hill is going to be bombed. And the bombers came over, the American bombers came over so low, you could see the men moving around inside the bombers getting ready to drop the bombs on the next hill.

That was quite a sight. Something to remember. By the time the bombers got there, they had thrown smoke grenades out. The smoke had filled our back over our own lines. Our planes came down and bombed our own line

instead of bombing the German line. And General McNair, a three-star general, I think the highest one killed in World War II, was one of them killed in that bombing. Now, Ernest Hemingway and Ernie Pyle were both up there, but they didn't get hurt. Like the author, Ernest Hemingway? Ernest Hemingway and Ernie Pyle. Both their correspondents were up there, but they didn't get hurt. Like the author, Ernest Hemingway? Ernest Hemingway and Ernie Pyle. Both their correspondents were up there for the bombing, and neither one, both of them survived it.

What did the bombing look like to you? The bombing, it looked beautiful, seeing all those. But we didn't know it was coming down on our troops. And it killed a whole lot of men and wounded a lot of men on that I mean it's not an exact science right

and we were dug in for that or pulled back or anything they were on the line so they were thinking they were Germans and they were bombing us but some of the Germans did get hit with the bomb run. So it stunned them a little. Right.

So it was some heavy fighting to take over the hill. And we're in like the end of July now, right? Yeah, right. The 25th of July was the bombing and the capture of St. Louis. Okay. The fall of St. Louis. Okay. The fall of St. Louis. Just to set the context, what Jake's talking about, Normandy was supposed to be a relatively easy campaign,

but the planners did not expect the hedgerows, which were these fortifications that you mentioned, that really bogged units down. I mean, there were trees and bushes, but they were really almost like cement walls. Tanks couldn't even go through them. But after that, they got out of the hedgerow country. There was this huge air raid, as Jake just mentioned, over St. Lowe to really soften up the Germans because this was going to be when General Patton finally comes back and is leading the men into the breakthrough, into what Jake called the plains. And if you look at the map, you can see a lot of little battles all the way from D-Day

up until like Mortain. But after that, it's a lot of very quick movement with the armored units. And so this was it. I mean, but but this bombing you can't even overstate how huge of a thing it was there are stories of germans who were in their pillboxes when the allies after the bombing finally moved forward they're coming out blood running out of their ears out of their noses they were so concussed uh by all the shelling it wasn't just like one raid i mean it was thousands of planes dropping huge loads and i think the situation what happened with the american troops some smoke

that was meant to signify the front line, went over the American side because of the wind. That's why the airplanes dropped it on the American troops. Yeah, that's an accident. God, that sucks. In other words, they should have waited before they threw the smoke bombs out. Again. That was stuff you learn from doing things. So many things that can go wrong, though, like we were saying.

But after that, a couple days later, we went up and if I recall, it was a day or two later, there was this German tank. It was knocked out on the road, side of the road. And on top of it was this German body spread across.

It was burned to a crisp. It was climbing out and got hit or something, fell down across the turret. And then we would go down the road away as we were moving on. We'd find a pair of pants laying there. Next thing you'd find a torso that was in the pants. And down a little further you'd find the top of a body laying there.

A guy was hit by an artillery shell and blown apart. And his bottom fell off. He was running. Ran out of the pants. You wouldn't believe it. Ran out of his pants. And the body laying at the bottom part of him laying over here. And the top part carried on.

You're saying this like it's another Tuesday at the office. But, I mean, there's some of the stupid things you saw. I mean, a lot of the veterans. This was a German you're talking about, right? Yeah, it was a German. A lot of the veterans, there's the adage, right, the only good German's a dead German. Yeah, at the time, that's what you're thinking.

Going through Normandy, they would take a German who'd be dead. They'd come around, had a ring, and the guy would take his net and cut it off. Yeah. And take the ring. I think some guys were doing the scalping thing too, right? Was that made up in English? I'm not. I love

my German scalps. I doubt that would be. The closest thing is the veterans who fought the Japanese were known, some of the men, Marines or Army even, would take the gold teeth out. Oh yeah.

They said they. They did in Germany. Americans did that in Germany. Really? Yeah. Anything that throws value. They had a nice watch. They took the watch. Or the gun.

Gun. Oh, no. I got the after effect of that. I am curious, Jay. Would you mind enlightening us some of the casualties that you treated? What were some of those early ones? Well, you had an octype. You had a belly.

We picked a German up, I forget, in Normandy there, who had a belly wound. We brought him in. His intestines were crawling out. They made contact with the hospital or something, and they notified us. There was no damage done to his intestines. How they got knocked loose, I don't know. But they turned around, and they picked him up.

And he was good? He was his prisoner, yeah. Oh, my God. And the other fellow, later on, I was going to tell you about a fellow. He got hit. And they turned around. And I'll tell you when I get to it. Okay.

But real quick, Jake. We're up to St. Lowe. Can we stop for one sec? I just have to go to the bathroom. But we'll come back and talk about St. Lowe. All right. We are back. We were just going to talk about St. Lowe. But real quick before that, would you mind just walking us through the many medals you have right there?

I keep looking at these all day. You have a million of them. The first medal is a bronze star. It's a decoration. It's a bronze star medal. It's a V device on it which was given for valor. The first two medals were valor.

The third the second oak leaf cluster represents the third medal which was given for meritorious service. Wow. I have the Purple Heart, which I was wounded in the Herculean Forest.

We're going to get to that. Then the Good Conduct Medal. Then North American Campaign Ribbon. Then the European Theater of Operation Medal, ATO Medal, was five battle stars for the five major campaigns that was fought. I participated in all of them. And the Victory Medal.

The medal below is the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg Medal, which is the highest medal given by the Luxembourg government. The next medal is the French Chevalier, which is the French Legion of Honor medal. And then the next medal is the 25th anniversary of D-Day. And then below them are three new ones that are just coming out The next medal is the 25th anniversary of D-Day. Whoa. And then below them are three new ones that are just coming out for the 80th anniversary of the Battle of D-Day, of the Battle of the Balls, and of the victory in Europe.

That's so cool. Wow. Yeah, like I said, you got a really decorated uniform there. I was supposed to get a silver star, but for some reason it never got it for going into enemy territory, infiltrating through into enemy territory. Was that in the forest? No, I was up in Niederbrunn, Germany. Okay, and that's where you... I know.

Yeah, okay. That's where I got the rifle. Right, right. I'm putting two and two together now. We went up there and the rifles, so we grabbed one. Somebody got an idea to go gun hunting. Oh, nice. To make a stock.

Yeah, get a little German memorabilia, if you will. Right, yeah. I got you. Okay, so St. Lowe, though, This is at the end of July, right? And what happened here? Well, we were, after we left St. Lowe, we went down the roads, and we passed, I told you about the fellow getting shot,

hit by a shell and blown apart, and lost his bottom and all. Then we continued. Then on the second, oh, as we're marching on the road, you know, Patton's supposed to be coming in, so everybody's asking, where's Patton, where's Patton? So about, I think it was around the 2nd of August, they turn around and some tanks come rolling down the highway

or the roadway they didn't have big highways, they had roadways and they just rode down and we were on each side of the road and they went through and then they went down and we didn't know it

but Patton turned and when he got down to Brittany Peninsula, he made a turn to the right and went down into Brittany Peninsula to clean that area out, because there was supposed to be some high German, I think, Nazis or SS troops or something down that area. So he went down to clean that out. And next thing we, the 12th Infantry Regiment was rushed up to support the 30th Division. And when we got there, they turned around and instead of being a support,

we had to go right into battle. And here the Germans had pushed, had tracked the armored divisions there at Mortain and pushed the 30th Division back one company on 1,000 yards, which was a big loss. So they turned around, and one of our battalions helped. They had one company, one battalion out there.

We, the balance of the 2nd and 3rd Battalion, were turned around and given us an order to clear out a marshland which was 8,000 millimeters wide to clear that out, which was a swampy area. So they turned around, and the 2nd and 3rd Battalions worked, and the Colonel of the 2nd Battalion had a match made,

and we were able to bring in some armor because it was a swampy area. We had to have something to stabilize some tanks and all to come in. So they were able to stabilize it, and we were able to get some support, artillery support and all to come in. So they were able to stabilize it, and we were able to get some support, artillery support and all. So we fought, and we went from the 7th of August until the 13th, the night of the 13th of August. They turned around, it was heavy. Some of the worst fighting of the war

happened during that fighting. And on the night of the 12th, the Germans threw a heavy barrage, and one of the fellas said, they must be leaving, and they instead of taking their shells with them, they

turned around and went, leave them with us, dump them with us. So we had an awful heavy barrage. But anyway, he had a colonel who was the battalion commander who was killed in that. He was seriously wounded up in Mortain in the battle, trying to gain ground. And they turned around, and a cap,

he had a major who was seriously wounded, and several of his radio men and a couple others were killed. But anyway, they turned around, and they had two litter teams come up to get the colonel and one of his aides. And they turned around, and they brought him back. Now, I was on one of the teams, and the colonel was very in bad shape.

We didn't expect him to make it. But we got him back to the aid station, worked on him, and they turned around and was able to evacuate him. And I was up at Boston to a reunion up there, and who comes walking in but the colonel and his wife. So he survived. He made it. What were his injuries?

He had shrapnel all over from the German tanks were firing on there, and we had little support, mostly just manpower. And I got to think, with such heavy weaponry like that, when you're coming up on some guys who maybe are still alive, but they're just, you know, they've been decimated by this weaponry, are you just holding their hand on the way out and giving them comfort in their worst moment? Sometimes. A lot of times, no. Their wounds sometimes aren't that serious. Now, this one I'll tell you later about. He kind of had a hip wound, so he fell as they were withdrawing. But I'll get to that when we get to it. I was at their rifle deal.

What was that called again? Niederberg? Niederbrum. Niederbrum. Niederbrum. Okay. They tell me Little Prune. It means Little Prune or North Prune or something.

It's probably the lower end of it, of the area. Got it. So after they leave on the 13th, is this the point where you guys have a straight shot to Paris, or is there still more that happens in between? On the 13th. Then we're saying about Patton coming through. Well, on about August 2nd,

the tanks rolled through us, which was Patton's third army going through. And they went down to Point... Yeah, I can't remember. To the... Oh, I forgot the name of it. What did I call that?

Where they went? Yeah. It's all right. Brittany. The Brittany Peninsula. World War I, that's where most of our troops came in to land in World War I to go in the battle. But anyway, they turned around, and after we left, we were rushed up to help the 30th.

When we had such heavy fighting and all, two German panzer divisions, crack panzer divisions, had been involved. Now we learned, I don't think from German record, there were three panzer divisions, which I think was a corps. And there was a whole... And they turned around, and you wonder now, why was there so much hiding for the town and around that area, around Mortain?

And you look in the map, and it looks like Mortain was the gateway to the Brittany Peninsula. And if they were... The Germans could have cut Patton, Third Army, and they could have eliminated them and been out of the war, and eliminated from the war. But it's just a theory.

But there's something to look into. That would have changed things. Historians should look into that. Yeah. Yeah, Patton, there was a big headache for them. So anyway, then after Mortain, the funny part about Mortain, we went in.

When we were going in, we got off and went in through this field. And we passed, and there was a 4.2 mortar, which was a big mortar crew there. And we passed them, and we went in, and we went over to some field. We made like a picture. And we went into this field where we bivouacked.

Then after that, we turned around, and during the mortain, they turned around and had this fighting back and forth. Well, then when we pushed the Germans out on the 13th, we turned around and we came back out and we wound up in the same field, something we'd never done before

throughout the war. We wound up, we just made like a big circle to clean out a nest of Germans that were in there. But anyway, on our way out, we're coming towards the 4.2 mortar group was still there, set up. And that was on the 13th. The Germans withdrew on the 13th. And they turn around, and, around and we heard this big explosion.

So we turned around and Newsy would go to see what the explosion was. And we go out past the mortar group and out to the roadway. And here was an American tank, Sherman tank had hit a land mine,

a German land mine, and blew up. But the tank wasn't on fire. The driver was laying on the ground, and he said all the rest of the crew got out. So we don't know what happened or anything. But the driver, he was peppered from head to foot with gravel from the mine blowing up and going off. And so we turned around and we picked him up and we took him back and set up an aid station, the aid station. And the doctors worked on him and all. But he was so barely bruised and all, and both his hands were burnt to a crisp, both.

All that was left was skin, no bones, and so to this day, I do not know how he was able to get out of that tank because it wasn't on fire or anything, but something had to be so hot to burn both his hands full of grit. But he said the rest of the crew got out. So anyway, the doctors, after they finished bandaging him up and all and getting him ready to ship out to the hospital,

he said to the doc, can I ask you one question? The doctor said, yeah, sure, what is it? He said, am I going to be blind? The doctor said to him, well, you've got a lot of dirt in your eyes. And he said, the nurses get back and wash them out quick. He said, I think maybe you have your eyesight but the fella did not know he didn't have any hands or left oh right so i did his dad if you think about him i can't i can't even fathom that right because the first time i saw bones

and were so deteriorated that you had none but it seems like you were from from the get-go the way you describe it at least from the get-go of getting onto the field of battle you were putting your training into work and all business let's get this taken care of let's help people you it doesn't sound like obviously something stayed with you, but it sounds like in the moment, you were constantly on your game. Nothing was too shocking for you to, you know, kind of be frozen. Right, yeah. Yeah, it's in your mind yet. Sure.

But this thing, you know, you just had to keep going. But then we were turning around and put on trucks. And it was a team in rain. And on the 23rd, I think it was, we were put on trucks. And we were rushed 165 miles to a heavy rain, team in rain, to the outskirts of Paris. Now, on that way, we passed through the French 2nd Armored Division, which was lined up on the road. And somebody said they'd been there for several days. I don't know why they haven't moved into Paris. Now, the people in Paris were supposed to start uprising.

The FFV and all were supposed to start uprising, the FFV and all, were supposed to start uprising against the German command. So they turned around, and at 6 o'clock on the morning of the 25th of August, the 4th Infantry Division, 12th Infantry Regiment was giving orders to move in the Paris. So the Americans liberated Paris, not the French. And we went in. It was such a nice day, but the people came out. They're all over you.

We were moving by truck, and they were all over our trucks, everything. They brought wine. They brought champagne out, and we always heard that they claimed that the French hid the champagne from the Germans. Well, they had dirt on the bottles of some of the champagne they were giving us. So maybe they did.

So they did hide it, but then it was a terrific day. Then the next day, the morning of the 26th, we were supposed to move out to the other side of the same river, across from the city outside the city of Parra, over the same river to the outskirts, to the other side of the river, where they had a racetrack, a horse racing track. So what happened on the, give my memory a minute, the 25th, the night. 25th was when you came in. Yeah, 26th.

Yeah. The chaplain, I said it was a Catholic chaplain. He traveled with the, he had a church service. He made arrangements to have church service in Notre Dame Cathedral. Oh, wow. At 930 in the morning. So anybody in a regiment who wanted to go was able to attend it. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. But it went in. It was like a dungeon. I think the glass thing, glass windows were out, and they had them all boarded up. So it was so dark in there you could hardly see. Now the windows are putting back in for the new. You know what? It's funny you say that.

I've never looked into that. But, you know, the Nazis occupied, obviously, Paris for a long time. Four years too much. Right. And we know that the Nazis loved to plunder wherever they were, historical art or history stuff like that i've never looked into what they might have messed with in notre dame cathedral because it sounds ever heard anything about sounds like they left it alone that's well i'm glad they did that's crazy though okay but uh yeah it was a beautiful uh structure i'm glad they're able to rebuild it

or reconstruct what was damaged yeah that fire what was that like five six years ago something it's going to be open this december i think really yeah they expect to finish the top yeah that looked that was nasty when that happened and they're building back the way it was that's awesome bring it back such a good such a historical place yes 500 and something ad or something i think yeah sounds right so you're then you're in paris over those couple days it's pretty much a celebration right because the nazis are gone you guys are just riding in the citizens or if you ever seen the video of that like i mean you lived it but like not only that so cool that evening there was music going on so we turn around go war wandering around and a couple a block or two over and we heard the music we went over and down there was. I didn't know it, but there's a zoo in the middle of Paris. Really?

Yeah. It was a zoo there. We got down to the bottom, and the Frenchmen are all dancing and all. Well, when some shots start coming down, some snipers were up on the roof shooting at the people. Wait, Nazi snipers? Yeah. They were still there? They were still on the roof.

Like leftover? So they turned around and some of the FFE went over, climbed up the side of the walls. I don't know how they do it. And they started chasing the FFE or the German snipers. So some snipers just stayed back and decided to have their own little last stand. They couldn't get away. They were trapped. They were probably cut off, had no way to get out.

Ooh. Imagine that. You're one of the people killed by the last snipers there. The general, the German general in charge, he surrendered to an American colonel over there. Oh, he did? Yeah. So they didn't get everyone out? They didn't go, no.

He lived powers and he went to destroy it. Whoa. He would have been killed otherwise because Hitler would have, he didn't obey orders. Yeah, yeah. Hitler didn't want anyone, anyone. Hitler had ordered to be blown. See, that's why we were ordered to go in as well, because they heard that the Germans had booby-trapped so many of the buildings

and the bridges to have them explode so we were sent in this before the french up uh would have an uprising and create a have them start blowing the place up right right yeah what was it operation operation barbarossa the one that was in the east soviets i forget the name of the general, but like Hitler wanted to have the guy executed for surrendering when he surrendered because their army was surrounded by the entire Red Army and was going to be killed. That don't make sense. Yeah, he was quite crazy. So how long were you in Paris? We were just in the city overnight. Next morning we moved out, went to the church service,

and we moved from there across the same river. And there's a racetrack a short distance from the river. And they, all during the war, they operated that racetrack. But the medical, the 2nd Battalion medical det medical took over their canteen area and used that as the aid station so we were there about four or five

days and during that period the Germans had bombed the lower part of Paris and they had also we were fighting back and forth the lower part of Paris and they had also we were fighting back and forth and we finally got them

and they withdrew so on the 28th I think or 29th when they had the parade we were expecting to make it the 12th infantry ride but instead of that with them withdrawing we had to keep past them.

So we wound up, we were one day from when they had the parade in Paris. And they brought the 28th Division from the Brittany Peninsula over to Paris to make the parade.

And you had said earlier that it was once you got to paris and saw that where the vibe started to be oh we're gonna win this thing well then we went on you know start moving faster and over open country so it made it a lot easier did they so when you you spent those four days at the in the area of the racetrack and everything, and then you start moving east, did you – were you told at this point, hey, the objective is we're basically now like trying to get into Germany proper and this thing? Or what was the – what were the orders coming down at that point? Well, in September, well, we were, the end of August was when they liberated, I think the 28th or 29th of August. We were about, we were a day away from Paris.

We had just left Paris the day before. And we were chasing the Germans. And we turned around and we went up to St. Quentin. St. Quentin's a big town over there. And there, some German horses, they had horse-drawn carriages, some horse-drawn

carriages. Some horses got killed. And while we were going through, liberating this town, the people were out carving up the horse to get the fresh horse meat. Because that was a delicacy.

But then we were there a couple days, about two, three days. Then they brought trucks up, or buses, I forget which. And they turned around and put us on and took us down around and brought us down to the bottom of...

Can't think of the country. You're fired. What's the name of the country next door? You got Belgium, Luxembourg? Belgium. You're getting on yourself. I can't believe the names of the infantry divisions you can remember, all the towns and everything.

Your memory is unbelievable. We went around to Belgium. We went through Belgium, up through St. Hubert and La Roche and all that, cleaned them all out. Very little damage done to the towns or anything. They turned around and kept the Germans on the run. In LaRoche, the Germans were making a stand. I was sent up.

No one expected to stay long. They didn't lay wire for communication between the company and battalion headquarter so i was up at a forward aid station which was a cliff overlooking the city of la roche and the colonel and all was there directing they were and we were watching them and we had a 75 millimeter gun up there anti-tank gun. And we were shooting across. There was a fort on the opposite side of the town,

and we were shooting across at that fort. Anyway, you could see the people moving around down there and all, like looking out of a window. Oh, yeah. It was really something. Anyway, I turn around, and all at once, there's somebody starts climbing up the castle, the wall of the castle. I order them to stop, and they wouldn't stop. I kept telling them not to go and all that.

Anyway, then they gave orders, put a.50 caliber shells, make a circle around them. They still kept climbing. They figured it was a high German trying to get away, get in the castle. So they turned around and cut him down, cut him right in half.

And here it turned out to be an 18-year-old French FFA. He joined us and he joined up with us in Paris. When we were in Paris, they turned around and left them, joined up and come with us. We gave them the ammo and the food and all.

And so after that, that was the end of them traveling with our outfit. I'll bet. So when I was over there back in 23, in March of 20. When you went back. Back in La Roche and we had a ceremony and I was made an honorary member of the city

and I told them the story about that French boy, how he got killed. Nobody knew how he got killed. Couldn't figure it. But I didn't realize there's a river runs right through by the castle. Right through the town. What river?

I don't remember. I don't know what river it is. But right through the town. I was? I don't remember. I don't know what river it is. But right through the town, I was shocked when I saw it because where we were, you couldn't tell it was a river there. Everything's just moving so fast. Yeah, but the castle's still standing. It's dilapidated, but it's still standing. What's left of it. It's amazing how the battlefield for this war was going through so much prestigious history i mean we mentioned it with with the notre dame cathedral is one example in paris but i mean everywhere you go there's incredible incredible history and architecture

and yet there's mortars flying everywhere and and dudes shooting each other and you know chaos right crazy so where when when did you you were in the battle of the bulge which well that was later that was later so there was stuff in between there oh yeah what happened in between there we liberated from St. Vith in Belgium all the way down to Bastogne one division in September and

turned around and then we turned around and went up into Germany back and forth now we went into this little town along the wooded area which they call Shemuel

Eiffel. Shemuel Eiffel. I don't know what it stands for. But anyway, we had a long carry out. It must have been a couple miles over rough terrain along the wooded area. We didn't go through the wood. We came along the wooded area.

And we couldn't get any cars or jeeps or anything up there, or artillery. So there was just a soldier. Well, in September, I'm coming back on a litter carry. There's four of us on a litter.

I'm coming back on a litter carry. There's four of us on a litter. And I'm coming back on a litter carry with a patient, and we stopped to change positions because it's such a long haul. So we turn around, and I stop, and I look out, and I see this beautiful valley. You could see for And somebody said, well, that's the Cologne Plain. So we go on, and we pick up, and we keep on. And it's beautiful. So then back in, then the bulls, we wound up in the Hürken Forest. Yeah. We came back and forth, and we wound up in Germany and back in the Hürken Forest. Yeah. as a separate unit. Our regimental combat team was sent up

and became part of the 28th Division. So the 12th now is assigned to the 28th Division. And we were supposed to support the 109th Regiment of the 28th. Well, on our way, we were going to take good roads. And on our way way our orders changed which is unheard of but our orders changed that we would immediately replace

the 109th regiment of the 28th division so we turned around started taking back road shortcuts and it was rain, heavy rain and our trucks kept sliding off the small roads and all but And our trucks kept sliding off the small roads and all.

But we finally got there around midnight. And they turned around and we went up and how? Yeah, we went up, we went down and crossed the

bridge and there was a German pillbox there which must have been the first line of their defense of the Siegfried line. And we turned right and on the left was the I think the 3rd Battalion. And a doctor was up

on the 8th at the pillbox. He was, they made that an aid station for their battalion, and he was banished to the fellow's arm. Well, we went up and around, and that was on the 7th of November. We turned around and went up to the edge of the woods. It was like a fire break.

A fire break? A fire break, an opening of the woods. It was like a fire break. A fire break? A fire break. An opening in the woods. So they followed the road and they went up the fire break about 30 feet or so. Then we turned around and went down. It was an open spot. So we turned around

and decided to put the aid station in there. So we built from the 9th, from the 7th to the 8th and 9th, the three days. We turned around and we dug a hole, a big hole, and we put two message center tents. Now, message center tents, I think, are about 16 by 8, something like that. Well, anyway, we put two 16 by 8, something like that. Well, anyway, we took two of them lengthwise in the ground. Then we turned around and had people from the A&P,

from the headquarter, come over, and the platoon come over and cut down some trees for us and all. And they turned around, and we hauled them over, and we put them on the side of the tents and all around. Made it like a bunker. Then we took an 8-inch tree and put it on top.

And made a bunker out of the 48 station. Then on the 10th, we were supposed to jump off and attack against the Germans so to get to there we had to travel about 1500

feet down a steep ravine across a little stream and up the other side and then of course a plane about another 1500 feet before their line, the Germans' line. And they turn around, and when we were there, we were moving up.

They were back to their line of defense. And we were waiting to move into position. Excuse me. They turn around, and I'm standing there. I look out. Watch, it's starting to get daylight, and I see about eight piles of American dead, just American, in one spot.

I never saw it from the beaches all the way through. You said piles? Piles, eight piles. And there were four abreast, shoulder to shoulder, neatly stacked, not thrown in a pile. They're only about 100 feet from the line of departure, the front line. So you're wondering in your mind, how can this happen?

It just don't make sense. And there's only Americans. The 9th Division was on the bottom, and the 28th was on top of them so it didn't make sense well anyway all these years on the 50th anniversary the 28th division

was supposed to have presented a mural of the Indian Town Gap Museum and it has the thing showing where two troops were supposed to be called. And the Germans and Americans worked together to gather up the American casualties.

And that's when they would throw them in the pile. They neatly stacked them to show respect to the dead. But I have a picture here. neatly stacked to show respect to the dead. But I have a picture here. Yeah, I don't even know what you say to that. To show

this is a picture. Oh yeah, we were looking at this right before. That's a picture of them bringing the medics and the aid station was over a tent over here. I showed it on a big picture. And what we were talking about before we were on air is about how during this time there were some sort of truces called. Yeah, two truces.

Yeah. And that's the only made sense. Now you can make sense of how American bodies would be stacked so deeply. Yeah. And you have Germans. They showed a German there. Right. You have Nazis and Americans.

That guy with the big red cross in the center, he's a German. What's that? Move the photo more. It's off. Oh, here? Yeah, there you go. Right there? Sorry.

Yeah, that's an unbelievable image. I never knew anything about that history about how there was there was like you know i mean we had heard stories from world war one where they called truces because there were wolves out there and they're playing soccer outside the trenches but we don't hear about that in world war ii we only think about i say hirkenfar is going to become more well knownknown, I think. People are just starting to hear about it and we get interested in it. Every outfit that went into the Hurricane Forest,

good fighting outfits. It's just like going through a meat grinder. They were so chewed up, it wasn't funny. And the casualties we had, and to get the casualties from the front line, where they'd be wounded, down the ravine, across and up the other side,

another 1,500 feet to the aid station, it's unbelievable. Now, on the 10th, we jumped off on an attack. On December 10th? On November the 10th. November. November, in Harkin in November. November the 10th, we jumped off on an attack. On December 10th? On November the 10th. November. November. In Harkin in November. November the 10th we jumped off on an attack to take a town.

We got one squad across the roadway and all hell broke loose. We had thrown an hour barrage on them. The night before we sent a patrol in they thought there was nobody there. And we'd go back the next day. They stopped us cold at the highway, the road, and we had to withdraw.

We threw an hour bright. They threw an hour and a half. Now, we were set up. We had two line companies, a German minefield, and another mine company. I was with this E company at the time, which was the one company. The E and F were on the other side. Well, during their barrage, they sent their troops through their minefield and infiltrated their minefield and cut the whole three companies off from the rear.

We were all cut off for the whole day surrounding. So we turned around and we were getting our casualties and then we had made this advance to 8th Station. So we're looking around, we find a

German white flag with a red cross on it. they must have used it as an aid station but we had about 20 21 men in this area including the medic and uh the the pains as the days grew longer the pain started hurting them more so we we turned around and we decided. Now we had seven litter cases. We had two litter teams. Four men to a litter team. So one man, he turned around and we took the

German Red Cross flag we found, got a branch from a tree and tied it to it. And he carried that. And seven of us, each of the other litter bearers, carried a litter casualty.

Each one should have been a separate casualty. Carried one of them on our backs, 1,500 feet. 1,500 feet. Then we turned around, and the other wounded, the slightly wounded, helped the more serious wounded to get out. Now, they weren't allowed to carry their guns with them because they weren't allowed. So when they didn't have their gun, the Germans left us through. When they saw such a crowd, they probably maybe decided to leave us go through instead of have to take care of all these casualties.

But we must look like a sad sack. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a different, so what you're talking about is a different place than what they showed Easy Company and Band of Brothers. But in the episode where they're out in the forest and you see them build, that was another one, you see them build that was another one you see them building these foxholes and you see one of the episodes is through the eyes of the medic himself who had to come on into where the foxholes were get people out get them to you know an

emergency evac center in town which was being bombed too right you see the reality of this and you're just like, oh my God. They told us when we came up that they had artillery and they told us the sizes, some many miles deep, were hub to hub. And we said, what? I found out one mistake. Instead of jumping off on a division attack, they jumped off on a battalion's attack. What do you mean? Only one little group.

So the Germans were able to concentrate all their gunfire in one area. Oh. Sitting ducks in some way. That's the way we were. Whoa. Yeah, that must be. And you actually, I want to say this, you sitting to your left right here. Yeah, this is a, that is out in the Hurtin Forest.

They presented that to me up in Hurtin, Volsnik. This was a few years ago, right? The 20th, last 2023. March of 2023. So you went back to

the Hurtum Forest and this is a piece of I was back in part of the Hurtum Forest right so this is a piece of no it's a tree you can see it's part of a tree you have a tree from within there where this battle was fought

they put a museum a German museum in Wostnick, Germany which is near Schmidt and they turned around and when they were putting this museum the museum

they had a ceremony there where I was presented that I was also, I was sitting in a group and I looked out and I said, over the monument they were going to dedicate,

I said, that's a Fourth Division insignia there. I wonder how that got there. It was a cover over it, over the monument. And with that, the color guards come out.

I said, that's the National Fourth Division color guard. They know it here. Anyway, the color guards come out. I said, that's the National Fourth Division color guard. They know it here. Anyway, the ceremony. And then I'm sitting in the crowd. They call me out. They come up and ask if I would help to participate

in presenting the monument to the museum, which I did. And here I was the one presenting, actually made the presentation of the monument. That's amazing. But in the first place... That's a stone light. What was it like to be back there? Well, you look for places. I'd look for holes. You see pictures of me looking. But we were in the wrong spot. I got to get

somebody. Now, I just talked to a fellow the other day, and he's a friend of another fellow, a German fellow, who was our Jeep driver during the trip I was on in 23. So he's going to talk to him, does research and all. And I'm going to find the information I wrote down, the town and all, and see if he can go in that way and go and find a location. Because I'm trying to find out how deep was that ravine. Was it 75 feet?

Was it 85 feet? Or 100 feet? I don't know. I have no idea. I may have only been 50. But it took us a couple hours to go down one side and across and go up the other side without any patience. And all our supplies, our food, their ammo, and all had to go through the same routine.

And of course, that open plane. It's such a savage warfare. You think back, you wonder, how in the name of God did we do it? I don't know. I mean, to bring them down a steep, the cliff was almost straight up and down, about, I'd say, an 85-degree angle. It was almost straight.

Oh, my God. And when you get about 15 feet from the top, then it tapered to a 45 degree. It reminded me of an old riverbed. And I asked somebody if it was, but they said they didn't know. But hearing about those dams, the dams that there was

on the other side of Hurricane Forest, hearing about them, you wonder if that was the main course of the water going through for years and it made that deep ravine and all because just like it just looked like me at the time that it wasn't grass or anything was a no river bay how did this battle end like it it ended on december 8th it says it right here but like was that was it as simple as the Germans had enough and moved back? The Germans, every division that came in after us,

wound up the same way, just like going through a meat grinder. Oh, everyone was chewed up. Yet now we find out right next door in the Ardennes Forest, the Germans were building their Panzer divisions up. So they were chewing us up and pleading our security while

they were building theirs up. For the bulge. So then they basically wanted to put all their chips in that basket. Seems that way. But the thing is, that was November. Then on the 16th of November, the 28th Division was relieved by the 8th Division. So it meant the 12th Infantry Regiment, now it was Regiment of Combat,

they went back to the 4th Division. We were part of the 28th. Our orders were coming from the 28th Division. Okay, all right. The regiment, we came next to the regiment they gave them. Got it. So we were part of the 28th. Then we came back to the regiment they gave them. Got it. So we were part of the 28th. Then we came back to the 4th.

Now, on the 16th, they brought the 4th up to the Herkampars, and we were set down right next to the 8th Division. So we had to come out of here, and we were there for two weeks. We'd come over, and we joined the 4th Division there for another two weeks. We were there a whole month, the 12th Infantry Regiment. And this is where, I mean, again, you're getting into the winter, it's cold, there's more heat dropping everywhere. As the winter's setting in, that's right.

I mean. Matter of fact, on the 9th, the morning of the 9th, I said the 10th we jumped off. During the day of the 9th or the night of the 9th, there was a snow squall. A squall. And all the bodies I said I saw, there was some dust along the base of them.

And the ground was white from a little, you know, early snow. But they had snow that night on the 9th. The 10th is when we jumped off the attack when I saw the dead bodies but for 50 years that was in my mind I couldn't come up with an answer and you were saying off camera

some of this is really they're just learning about it and it's history we got to study there's a General Gavin of the 82nd Division. He turned around, and I saw an article he wrote in the Heritage Foundation. Okay.

A couple years ago. He said they came up and replaced the last ones, I guess, in the area. They came up to replace. He didn't say who they took, but he said when he walked through there, he went and walked through and he found dead bodies laying there. He questioned how come there's still American dead bodies laying, still laying ground. They're still digging people out of the ground,

bringing them back to identify them. I was down there. Now? Yeah. I was down at Dover Air Force Base last year. And they're turning around and they got a big, what do you call these things? To take care of the dead.

Well, they got a big one of them doing research down there. Bringing them from the Hurtgen Forest. Because I was invited down. When they heard I was in the Hurtgen Forest, I was invited down to the go-through. To the ceremony. No, to this. Receiving the remains at the base, right?

Yeah. I forget what they call it. All right. So let's type in Hurtgen Forest. I keep saying it wrong. Hurtgen. Hurtgen... I keep saying that wrong. Hurtgen. Hurtgen Forest remains

recovered U.S. soldiers 2023. That's unbelievable. So they're still digging up... body. Matter of fact, they... they had the natural... I think it's their second line of defense after the ravine.

What we got to was their second line of defense. And that was all natural, like shrubs or weeds or fields, like a wood line. And in there, they turned around and had pub wire and satchel wire. So when a guy would try to go through it, he got hung up on it. One guy got hung up in the 22nd

Division. It was over on the other side of the 12th after that. He got hung up, and he must have hollered or cried so bad that a German lieutenant came out and tried to help him to get out of the entanglement. And as the German lieutenant was helping him out, the German lieutenant stepped back on a German mine and blew himself up.

And the American 22nd Regiment put a monument in in his honor it's over there today well we just we just pulled up this article about what you were talking about unless he got this so all right that's stuff i don't never heard about this is september 2023 remains identified of michigan soldier who was killed in the hurtkin forest during world war ii okay the remains of a u.s soldier from michigan who died fighting in the hurtkin forest were identified in july the defense pow slash mia accounting agency dpaa said monday that the remains of u.s army staff sergeant max w thurston were identified on july 7 2023 thurston of flint was 19 just like you assigned to company b first battalion 109th infantry regiment 28th infantry

division the dpa says its regiment was fighting near germany germany in the hirken forest when he was killed in action on november 6 1944 his body couldn't be recovered due to the fierce fighting and once americans secured the area there was dense vegetation and heavy snowfall so say anything about the lieutenant about who that lieutenant german lieutenant right right it doesn't say that one but i'm saying like that you know they have stuff i never heard of i you know i never heard of any of that it's crazy i guess mine was all verbal right yeah but still like like the battle's so intense there's so many things going on that you don't even have time to get somebody.

To this day, they've got to watch. There's mines buried there. Yeah. There's a lot of mines there. And a lot of our guys died from mines, blowing them. Yeah, we don't think about this stuff. But how do you even get rid of that? Like, it's just in there.

You've got to go back and get them out then go back and dig them out try and dig them out i mean you say we don't accept you say we don't think about that like in the west we don't but countries that were occupied definitely do like germany has just like we have fire departments police departments they have a whole unit in their civil government dedicated to finding unexploded ordnance, bombs that were dropped from the planes. That's right.

I mean, so they definitely have outfits that, I mean, the war is still very real in Europe, right? Wow. Yet they live, and they're very appreciative to us. When I was over there in Normandy they were so appreciative. Even German people came up thanking us. Of course.

Yeah. That's great. You liberated us too. Yeah. You had a chance to go that you're mentioning. I was over there in Normandy. I met the President of the United States over there. Oh, that's amazing. How cool was that? Him and his wife. I was great.

I was honored. Yeah. And then, not only that, but I go up and be a swank, and I say, I'm Jake Ruzer. I'm from Philadelphia. Because I knew he liked Philadelphia. Yeah. Here he's been. So anyway, he says, you take a picture with you? I said, be honored to.

So he turns around, he says, wait a minute. He turns around, he takes the America flag. They're both standing together, America and France. He moves the one over. Then he took the French and moved it over. And we stand like in the middle between them. Oh, that's cool. And he took our picture.

I was the first one. The rest of them came through after he talked to them too. I met him and his wife both. It's got to be pretty cool, though, not only to go to that and reflect on what that is and how you were there, but also you have these people from all different countries who are so grateful for what you did. That's why I can't get over so many young people. Yeah. Generations.

And they had their children, all their families there and all. And like I said, we had a ceremony on the 4th, I think it was, on Utah Beach. Then we went to St. Mary's. And we were there and we spent a day there. And we went back to St. Marie-Domaine. And we were in another little town the other side near khan but that town near khan they had uh you know what blessed virgin mary is it's a blessed mother god's mother yeah you saw i know what that is they had a statue

i think it must have been about seven feet tall, standing out looking over the ocean and the beaches from the town. And then maybe 20 feet below that was a cross up and looking out. But I got to get the name of the town. I don't remember. But I think it was near Cannes. How long were you there for this trip in 2024? A week. You left on the 3rd and got back on the 10th.

At the airport in France, the captain of the plane came out and came over and congratulated each one of us separately.

And then he turned around and introduced us to all the people in the airport. That's so cool. Yeah, it was really nice. It looked like, I mean, you were there, Rishi, the coverage we had here,

it looked like a pretty amazing it looked like they did it right. Yeah. and a funny part you good? yeah the ear block at this thing ceremony

I was in the middle and they put everybody in front of me I'm held by myself here the president's standing there and I'm right here. Oh, that's cool. He was giving, and French president. Oh, Macron was up there too. He was, he made the presentation from there.

Yeah. Yeah. It was cool to me to see that. How did I get it? Nobody in front of me. Yeah. Well, you got the best seat in the house. I had the best seat in the house.

It was cool to see how large and pomp the circumstances. As far as you can see, there were people. Yes. Listening. Yeah, very well deserved. But we left off. So you finish in the Hurtgen Forest, and you said the Germans had been building their panzer division in the Ardennes Forest for the bulge. All their panzers were in the Ardennes Forest.

Right. Now, in September, when we went through that area, the Germans, we didn't go through neither forest, neither the Hürken nor the other. But actually, it wasn't the Germans. But, actually, we didn't, it wasn't the Germans, it was our dens we bypassed. The Hürken was German territory

at that time. So, we didn't go through there. But, anyway, we found out later from this thing, if you get a chance, get it from about Gavin, in the Hürken Forest. Okay. From the Heritage Foundation.

Oh, the one you were talking about. Yeah. And he tells you about them going through. And more or less, he says, which he never went through. They claim Eisenhower's staff, who was doing the planning of the attack, did not have any idea of any roads or anything else, fire breaks or anything. They had no idea of the valley.

They had no idea. That's why they kept sending us in troop after troop to keep attacking because they thought it was level, most forests are level. Or, you know, there are hills hills but they're not ravines and all but this one was something exceptional yeah it might be i mean this is total monday morning quarterbacking but it's like once once they got in the south and sicily and carefully moved across okay success we're getting onto the mainland then they do the wild mission in Normandy, which somehow gets pulled off. They start taking land in France, and suddenly you're moving faster and faster, and you get a lot of momentum. So as you're doing that, you're getting closer and closer to Germany, and you start, like, the wheels get a little bit out of control.

That's what the ICE group figured. We were rolling so fast. So that then causes something. We went in a hurricane for ours. If we were to bypass, we went around it. They said for the dam, but they never mentioned the dam up to this point. So when did the Battle of the Bulge begin?

The Battle of the Bulge began. Well, anyway, we were in a hurricane. We were there two weeks with the 28th Division, the 12th Infantry Regiment, and the two weeks with the 4th Infantry Division, who had now been brought up. That's right. So, on the morning

of the 23rd, the Germans attacked. Now, they gave the order if the Germans attack, don't wait till they get on top of you before you shoot why did they say that? I guess to see the weight of the rise so they got a better target

that's the only thing I can assume but anyway they turned around and they waited until they were in so many feet of their line and then they all opened up the entire line. There was 278 men

who were attacked. 273 body counts after the thing was counted dead. Two of them had escaped.

One was wounded, and one was killed in the advance. So on the night of the 24th, we were relieved, and given a couple days, we were sent down toward a couple towns near Roxenburg and a little villa-like where we had a couple farmhouses. Nice. Can we pull up Battle of the Bulge on Wikipedia, by the way? And then we turned around, and Christmas we didn't get any turkey

because with the fighting going, nobody knew what was going on or what was what. So we turned around so when we got back there they had a defrosted turkey so we could have turkey dinner. It took two days. So here we had a nice turkey dinner

on December 27th, my birthday. I didn't tell everybody it was my birthday. It worked out well, though. It worked out. I can brag about it. That's great. But this battle, though, lasted. I want to double check it to make sure I wasn't messing up here.

This battle lasted like the Bulls. It lasted from the 25th of January. Yeah, 28th. Yeah, deep into January. The 28th official. Yeah. So there was still ath of January. Yeah, 28th. Yeah, deep into January. The 28th official. Yeah. So there was still a lot going on after the New Year came in. The 22nd was supposed to be the official date.

So did you go back onto the battlefield? Well, then we went back. We worked our way back. On New Year's, we were about one town from Consor. And we had a nice movie set up for us and all in the auditorium there. And then we had a nice New Year's Eve party. Oh, nice. They were going to get me drunk.

And the chaplain saw I wasn't a drinker, and they called me over to sit with him in his aid so they wouldn't bother me. And forced me to never go to have me drink, you know. He had your back. And then you got into possession of this gun in February, right? This happened in February. A couple months later. That was December.

So this is two months later in Germany. You get this. And you were telling me off camera there was like a bridge that the Germans would repeatedly not let you cross, right? Let me get my Do you want to

take somebody to drink? Oh, that's right. I'll take a straw. This thing's amazing. I feel like I'm, I am holding his foot here. Look a lot better than they do

over 80 years later. Go ahead. Take us through the story. How did you get it? Well, they turned around and then in,

in, yeah, but I got to get you up today. In January, Yeah, but I've got to get you up to date. In January, 25th, they finished the Battle of the Balls. We went back up, and then we picked up and continued fighting and went up through. Now, we fought through a couple of towns and areas. Then we turned around and put on, I guess, trucks

and taken up to Belgium again. And we fought in Belgium. Oh, you did? And we were fighting in Belgium. Now, on a water carry, when there's a long field along these trees and the deep snow up to my knees, and, well, it was such a heavy carry. Now, normally, you have four men about the same size.

But this day, one guy, who was supposed to be on the saloon team, four six-footers were on the team. They were going up to do the saloon carry. Well, anyway, as they were going up, the other guy had just left to go, I think, to the men's room or something to relieve himself. Anyway, instead of waiting, they said,

well, keep waiting, go. So I turned around, and I went with them. They sent me with them. Well, now I'm 6'7", and they're 6 plus. I'm 5'7", I should say. So these guys are 6 foot or a few inches. I was going to give you a couple extra inches. But anyway, we're on this long carry.

Now, they're carrying a normal. I'm struggling to hold it up to keep it level so the guy don't fall off. So we put him down to rest in the spot and change position. And we

put him down. I turn around and look around. Here I'm in about the same spot I was when we stopped in September, looking out over the ravine and the Cologne Plain. It was all snow now, and they didn't have the observation, but I can't get over it. We didn't know where we were until years later. I mean, you hear, read about where the different outfits were at different times. So that's how you find out we're back fighting

in the same area before then. Now, we went through some of Belgium. Those areas were... When I went back on this trip, I found out the 87th Division was the ones sent up. They were new over. And they had some very bad fighting and a lot of damage was the one sent up. They were new over. And they had some very bad fighting and a lot

of damage was done to those towns which we left almost perfect for. But that's the way the whole thing changed during the bulge. Then we fought our way back and we fought on up. And when we went through

Schnee Eiffel Forest after the bulge, that was the sixth time we were going back into Germany. The 4th Division was going back into Germany. Wow. The sixth time. We were in and out. In and out. Yeah.

So that was the sixth time. Then we continued on, and we went on up towards Prune. Well, on February the 12th, we were several miles outside of Prune. And I don't know how, whether it was the 22nd Regiment had been sent up to Prune, Germany, or Niederprune, I'm sorry, Niederprun, Germany, to hold some area, because the outfit that was in there, or they were in, in the Niederprun,

but they had to withdraw, because their both flanks were exposed, they couldn't bring them up, or I don't know why, whether they couldn't bring them or they were able, didn't decide not to. But anyway, instead of having the thing stick out like this, a group stick out where the Germans could come up the side and cut them off and surround them. They turned around and had them withdraw. Well, when they were withdrawing, the sergeant in this regiment got wounded

and he was laying on the battlefield. He got a hip wound, and he couldn't walk. So all the rest withdrew. Well, then we were sent up to take this regiment's place. And when we did, we sent a patrol in that night. And they turned around, and I don't know where they found the guy, a Russian or a Polish immigrant. Remember, when the Germans captured part of Poland and part of Russia,

they took the older men as prisoners, and they put them on their farms, to run their farms. And they used the young German farms, to run their farms. And they used the young Germans as soldiers, took them as soldiers. So anyway, they found this fellow on the battlefield at night, in the wee hours of the night, one, two o'clock, I remember, three o'clock. Anyway, he was hidden in a barn nearby

in the hay, so he wouldn't be detected right away. They turned around and they had called for us a litter team. Well, that was early in the evening. So the litter team started out, but a heavy fog had set in, and you couldn't see your hand

or finger. And they were going up and we had a sergeant trying to guide the jeep off those narrow roads and he turned around and he was a sergeant first class and he turned around

and he was going to be our sergeant in charge of the hospital, the back hospital anyway he was they would cap him. He worked in the 8th Station. And he was guiding the jeep, and it slipped off the road, came down Christian's foot.

So they came back, and within the meantime, they had called back where the Germans had called up to them and chased the patrol out of Germany, out of their area of Germany. So we turned around, and the next night, my group, the Lindenberg team I was with, was sent up forward to be up near the line

so that we could jump off and go away. So anyway, we got up there, and that's where I got that rifle, in Niederprum, right outside of the front line. That seems heavy, by the way. It is. Hey, just in carrying them with shells and all. Have you ever fired it?

No. Yeah, let's not do it then. I never touched it until I threw it a couple of times. Well, sure, this isn't loaded. Oh, you open that thing. I just want to make sure. All you got to do is open the hammer. Yeah, let's not do that in here.

But this is really, really cool. So you mailed this home, you said. I mailed home. I had it so well tied up, they didn't even cut it open and inspect it. Oh, my God. That's so funny. You were allowed to send guns home. I guess they needed some memorabilia going through there.

God damn. That's cool to be able to have something like this. We went into Niederprum, Germany I went up to the front we went up, our litter team went up and then that night right before dusk, before it got dark

we moved up to the line of departure, front line which was back in a wooded area they had to go back to a wooded area and the guys are saying, you guys are great. I don't think we even knew what we were going to go into. We were going to have to

infiltrate through the German line. But anyway, we turned around and we went. And I think it must have been, it seemed like awful long. It must have been maybe four miles to the line. And I only would know by some check. But anyway, to this farmhouse, anyway, we turned around, we worked our way up.

We were going to leave, and it got dark at 1110 that night. So the sergeant said, in charge of the patrol, he said, we won't go, we'll wait 10 minutes. So make sure it gets real dark so we don't have any glares where we'll be picked off easy. So going across the open roadway.

So we turn around and we wait until 20 after 11, that's why I remember. And we start the patrol and we work our way back. Well now we're up until midnight, 2 o'clock in the morning, 1 o'clock in the morning, and we've got to get in and get the guy and get back out. So anyway, we get down there.

Well, now we had to pick up their patrols, how they were working their security. The Germans were working their security. And then we had to slip through, individually slip through the line. They put a couple of the men on the patrol in first. I think there was five men

on the patrol. They took the patrol first. I got into the German secured area. Then the medics slipped in behind, got there. They had to get the timing and get in behind them. And then the others came in afterward. Then we went and got the casualty and brought him out.

He's smelling to the high heavens now. Only a couple days of crud in his... Oh, yeah. And we got him out, and we worked our way back. And we got near the line. We had to slip through. But this time, we had four men had to get out at one time. Because we're a litter team, you have four men, plus the litter. So you're spread're a litter team you have four men plus the litter

so you're spread out you know six feet apart with the litter so we turned around and we were able to get out and we got back in the other side of the line back in our American territory

and then as the patrol all worked their way, everybody got out. Then we came on back. And this is where, is this overlapping with where you were talking about the potential Silver Star? We were supposed, for doing such a rescue, we were supposed to get a Silver Star. They put us in for a Silver Star.

But they were denied. Now, think about it. Why was it denied? Maybe because of the situation going, send an unarmed medic into a German... They don't want attention on that. So, it's easy to say, no way

and forget about it. Then they turn around and have the answers higher command. Why would you attempt to send people in? Do you? Go ahead. Then a couple days later, we moved on up, and we moved into Prum Germany itself. Now, in Prum Germany, there was a big road, a bridge across,

which the Germans had blown when they were evacuating. And then right behind was a level, and then it went into a hilly area, up a hill and back for a couple miles. So anyway, we were there a couple days. So every time we were getting ready to cross, the Germans would shuttle at the area and blow the bridge out. Then they had to start all over because we couldn't get equipment across.

So they finally put a walk bridge across. They got troops across and sent the troops up, and they pushed the Germans back. And then we were able to get equipment in. But then we had to take some German prisoners. Then we had this long carry. The guys are way up behind, out of sight, and we had to carry them several miles.

So we took the German prisoners and used them to help to carry some of the litters back. So we didn't have to carry it all the way ourselves. It's too much. Did you have any conversation? I don't even know if they would have spoke any English, but did you have any interactions with the German prisoners? Only one that I remember.

That was in Cherbourg. The colonel went... In the Louis Pasteur Hospital, I don't know if I told you. The hospital in Cherbourg, there was two hospitals. It was the Louis Pasteur Hospital and was an underground hospital the Germans had at the north or west side of the town, whichever way you want to call it.

Anyway, they turned around, and when we were in there, they turned around, and we were about a block or a couple blocks from the port when they captured the town and trying to capture the port. So the battalion aid station, they moved a couple blocks inland to the hospital, and we moved into hospital buildings. Well, when we were moving to these hospital buildings, I think I may have told you that they turned around

and a group was coming out from the 79th Division, and I knew this one fellow from the hometown. Well, anyway, that hospital was declared an open hospital. And the German colonel and his staff continued to operate the hospital. I think it had civilians in it too. And they turned around and they continued to operate

and the Americans could bring some survivors or American personnel to take over the responsibility of the hospital. So you interacted with those Germans? Then the Germans would have been evacuated too. But you were saying you did talk with some of the POWs there? Well, I started out with the Jeep driver. The colonel needed some supplies from the underground hospital on the other side of town.

So one of our Jeep drivers was given the assignment to drive him. So they went there to drive the stuff. Well, while they're going, the German colonel's jeep driver and I were standing there. We had one jeep parked next to theirs, one of theirs. And of course, it's open there. We were able to go and allow them to go, but they had to go with our security. So they turned around and we were starting. His went up to 60 kilometers. security. So they turned around and we were starting and his looking at his, his went

up to 60 kilometers, ours went only up to 55 miles an hour. So he's looking, oh, ours is so much faster. I didn't want to argue with your kilometers and your miles, you know. But anyway, I conversed. So we weren't able to converse properly, but we were able to understand each other. So nothing like crazy pro-law. That's right. Right. Do you remember where you were when you found out the war in Europe was over? Oh, it was very well.

We didn't know that. Where were you? On George Washington, the? On George Washington. The SSS George Washington. Oh, so you were shipping out. I was already on the high seas halfway home. No kidding. I left on the 18th of April, and the war ended on the 8th of May.

We heard about it. It ended on the 7th of May. We heard about it and then on 7th of May and they turn around and I had well maybe I should pick up I went to after we went to Prum Germany. Prum was a big place a big place that had supposedly some high SS troops stationed there or something. Well, anyway, we went through there, and a couple times after we got through there, our outfit was transferred now from the 3rd Army down to the 7th Army, which was in southern France.

We went by 40 and 8 boxcars down to southern France. I think we traveled maybe a day or so. And then we got down there, and I thought we were with the First Army, and then the Third, and then the First. But for some reason, the First just died out of the picture after the bulge.

I don't know why. But anyway, we went down to the 7th Army. It was supposed to be our first official break that we had in combat. And where the whole division was served. But anyway, I was there with them, and on the 18th of April, they probably got word that I was high on points,

these fundamentals, and being that battle. So I was high on points. So they probably found out why I was transferred. Yeah. So you're on the high seas when it ends. So I went and on May the 1st I got on. I went to Le Havre. They sent

me. I was sent back through the channel to Le Havre, France. And in Le Havre I was there about three days or so when our orders were all cut and changed and prepared us to come home. And I was given I was sent to a ship on May 1st in the Lahore Harbor.

They had to take us out by smaller boat to get on the bigger ship. And then we turned around and sailed from there to Southampton, where we picked up 500 litter casualties and brought them back to the United States. Wow. So we left May the

1st, so we were on the 15th. The war ended on the 8th, and I got back on the 15th. But on the way back, about a day out, right after we left the...

Right after we left LaHare, we turned around and ran into a submarine scare. Again? I detected a submarine coming when we were going out. You were attracting those submarines on these boats. But anyway, we were all down in bunks on the hull of the ship. So they got around and locked the hatches.

Next day, a guy got up to go to the men's room and couldn't get out. That's how we found out we were locked below that night. But anyway, when they unlocked it, they locked them in case they got hit, that it wouldn't sink so fast. It would fill up with water and just stay at a level,

and the whole ship wouldn't sink. So that was the idea of locking the hatches. But anyway, I had to work my way back. I had to work, so I got a job working. They gave me a job working in the kitchen coming back, in the butcher shop, I'm sorry. In the butcher shop. Butcher shop, where I do some cutting up.

So anyway, several of us were assigned to that job. When we came back early, we were coming back on T-day, temporary duty, and we had to work our way back. And then the war ends. Then about the night of the 14th, near the evening of the 4th, in the late afternoon, a German submarine surfaced

and surrendered to our captain. He could have sunk us as easy as not, but he surrendered to our captain. In the middle of the water? No, the war had ended on the 8th. I know in the middle of the water, though. Oh, in the middle of the water, right. So anyway, we were only a day out, or 14th, I say. Still, that's crazy.

A day out from that. So during that night, the Coast Guard from Cape May Courthouse came out, picked a submarine and escorted it back to Cape May. Whoa. Cape May, from Cape May to be there. And we sailed on into New York Harbor on the 15th. Well, Jake, your story is amazing. I got some more to tell you about. I know you got some more, but we've been talking for four and a half hours. Oh, you have? I got a call at seven that I got to do.

I got an alarm set to go off on my phone. I'll give you a quickie then. All right, let's get a quickie. Then I was sent to Dix. I was supposed to be back to the half. I got told we were going to be reassigned to begin the war. At Dix, I was sent to England General Hospital, which is in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

It was one of the largest paraplegic hospitals in the country. There I was assigned to the paraplegic work, do nursing work. Then I took care where I had to take care of paraplegic patients. I had a full colonel, a captain, a first lieutenant, and a second lieutenant, which is in my homeroom.

I took care of personally. And the colonel, when I was going to get discharged, the colonel said that he would like me to go take care of him in civilian life. So I didn't want to sign up again and join up for four more years. That's how I think it was, four years, three or four years, to stay in the Army. I probably got caught in a Korean situation yeah because that was what like 50 to 53

if he would have died I would have been living with him I think he lived in Kansas City but if I didn't live with him I would have been a whole new life together I wouldn't be in these parts that's really cool that you did that though it was good experience learning how to be a nurse. Yeah. And being a nurse. I got

where I could give an enema with one hand and drink a milkshake with another. Because the Colonel got a milkshake and he didn't drink it by the time that the nurse giving him out came back to pick it up, pick up the empty glass. Yeah. So he said, do you want it? So I tried it. It was a good milkshake. So I started drinking it.

So I'm getting a milkshake one day, and I'm drinking it. You don't need any of these pictures, do you? I don't. We held that one up. We got the rifle on camera and everything, the German sword over there. I really want to thank you for your service and telling us all about it as well and getting your story out there. We can make something out of it. Oh, we definitely will.

And it was a real, real honor to hear about all that. And also, once again, Rishi, your channel is incredible. So we will have the link to that down below. If people enjoy content like this, Rishi has 2,500 interviews like this on his channel. So thank you so much for coming here, sir. You're quite welcome. It's been a real, real pleasure. It was my honor to meet you.

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