Julian Dorey Podcast - #258 - No. 1 UFO Crash Retrieval Expert on Majestic 12 & CIA Alien Files | Ryan Wood

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Ryan Wood is regarded as a leading authority on the Top Secret classified Majestic-12 intelligence documents and the 1941 Cape Girardeau, Missouri UFO Crash amongst others. He is the author of MAJIC EYES ONLY: Earth’s Encounters with Extraterrestrial Technology, a landmark synthesis of over 100 UFO crash retrievals along with authenticity discussions of many of the majestic documents. PATREON https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey RYAN'S LINKS Website: https://www.majiceyesonly.com/ Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0CP4KKS5R/allbooks?ingress=0&visitId=6853d60e-bee3-4121-9075-a78149740069 LISTEN to Julian Dorey Podcast Spotify ▶ https://open.spotify.com/show/5skaSpDzq94Kh16so3c0uz Apple ▶ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trendifier-with-julian-dorey/id1531416289 ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 - Richard Dolan (UFO Crash Retrieval Program), Meeting Stanton Friedman & Father’s Interest (1967) 08:39 - Brian Scott Abduction Cases, Danny Sheehan, Government Disclosure Confusion, Anti-Gravity Secret 19:21 - Alien Abduction (Male to Female Ratio) Issues, Historical Mount Ararat UFO Story, Burying Alien Story 27:35 - Jim Mars UFO Investigative Reporter, UFO Dex AI Tool 32:11 - Majestic 12 Breakdown, James Forrestal 41:47 - Majestic 12 Debunk or Truth? 55:03 - National Archives Hiding UFO Information, Tim Cooper UFO Leaks 01:04:21 - Vernon Bowman Encyclopedia UFO Files, Liquid Chromatography, Roswell Crash Parts 01:13:01 - Ryan’s Dad Theory on UFOs, AI Alien Theories 01:23:31 - Cape Girardeau UFO Case, Joe McMonagle Stargate Program, Hieroglyphics in UFO 01:37:29 - UFO Mexico Crash (Kill People), Simulating UFO Abductions 01:50:21 - UFOs & Nukes, James Erwin Astronaut, Einstein Posed w/ Alien Colonization 02:02:31 - Government’s Massive Secret (Manipulate Gravity), Theories on Aliens 02:09:47 - Skunk Works, Men in Black Recovering Crashed UFOs 02:18:03 - CIA Level 7 (Alien Convos), David Grusch Coming Forward 02:26:11 - Hitler Germany & UFOs Tied to Foo Fighters, DARPA Connections (Dr. Brandenburg) 02:32:11 - Transmedium UFOs Crashes, What is Next? 02:40:37 - Nuclear Fusion, Israel UFO Confirmation of Alien Life 02:49:07 - Belief in God CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian D. Dorey - In-Studio Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@alessiallaman Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 258 - Ryan Wood Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In one of the majestic documents, there's a mention of the Missouri 41 crash. And Stan Friedman had heard about this case from Reverend Huffman. And Reverend Huffman was a Baptist minister in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. And he was called to give blessings to three dead, allegedly cloned aliens that looked identical. So he was driven in a squad car about 15 minutes out of town. And he was driven out of town into a field and there was sort of an acorn, crashed, burnt saucer and three dead aliens. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please take a second to hit that button and leave

a five-star review. It is a huge, huge help to the show. You can also follow me on Instagram and on X by using the links in my description. Thank you. Ryan, welcome from Denver. Well, thank you. It's great to be here. I'm excited to tell you all sorts of things. We got a lot to talk about. You've been doing this pretty much all your life. We'll get into your backstory backstory but i was on the phone with our mutual friend well becoming my friend your longtime friend though richard dolan a few months ago he's like julian you have got to talk to ryan wood when it comes to ufm crash retrievals there's no one better i was like all right richard let's do it so i had a chance to read your now famous book magic guys only yeah and essentially, you keep it very simple.

You just, after the beginning where you outline, you know, the broad strokes of crash retrievals and what this is, you basically just paint the picture of here is every, you know, notable one that's ever been reported that had allegedly multiple witnesses and you grade them from like a no fucking way to a i think this really happened right exactly it's yeah it's pretty cool but this is something you've been looking at you were telling me since you were like 13 or 14 well yeah my original story or started uh was when my father came home um and brought Stanton Friedman to dinner, because he started a program on gravity control at the Douglas Aircraft Company and McDonnell Douglas ultimately, you know, and this is, you know, 1967 or something like that.

So I got an early age intellectually exposed to, you know, abductions and physics and Michelson-Morley interferometers and how do we change the speed of light and how do we implement gravity control and what sort of theoretical processes you might go through to try to analyze UFOs and their capabilities, you know, of high magnetic fields and electrostatic fields and so forth. So that sort of laid the seed for me. And I sort of, you know, I'm 15, 16. Okay, this is kind of cool, but I'm going to go back to girls and music. And then, you know, I started a normal corporate career

at Intel and digital equipment and a bunch of Silicon Valley startups and so forth. And it was only till maybe 1994, 93, when the Special Operations Manual, Extraterrestrial Entities, Technology, Recovery, recovery and disposal was leaked, that I started working with my father about authenticating government documents and leaked documents. And we started to get a lot more. And that spawned a whole much deeper ufology interest up until today. And I went to a lot of the various mutual UFO network MUFON conferences and I was frustrated at the MUFON conferences because they didn't talk

about the things I wanted to talk about. Like what? Well, I wanted to talk about crashed hardware and UFO parts and physical evidence. I was like, lights in the sky video analysis oh that's neat and stuff uh but hey it doesn't do it for me you know show me a hieroglyphic hatch you know you know that's that was the the acid test so i said i can do a better job than these guys and so i started the ufo crash retrieval conference in 2003 and ran for seven years in Las Vegas.

Vegas. Vegas, yeah. Vegas, baby. And all sorts of – George Knapp was there. He came and talked. And all these people that are mainstays of ufology right now came to the conference and made presentations. Typical 500 people from around the world all in Vegas for, you know, a Friday night, Saturday, Sunday. That's dangerous.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was fun. And that kicked off a much deeper dive. But one of the people at the conference said, you know, Ryan, aren't you going to be done with crash retrievals in one or two conferences? And I said, no, no, there's a lot of crash retrievals. So then I decided, well, I should write the book. That's how I started writing the book.

So I wrote the first edition in 2005, and it had 74 crash retrievals from around the world. Now it's got like 100-something, right? 104. And as I was telling your producer, I mean, I left another one. I left several on my desk because I just wanted to get it done. Damn it, Ryan. Go back.

Go back. We need them. We need them. Yeah, I know. But it's interesting that, you know, every crash retrieval deserves, as you mentioned earlier, a push towards authenticity. You know, is the needle for authenticity in the middle where it typically starts off? But with more investigation, the needle gets higher credible or lower credibility as you look through all the witnesses, you look through all the documents, you do all the

investigation, you spend a bunch of money to analyze what's going on with a particular case. And I'm not the only person doing this. I mean, I'm leveraging all the work of many other experts that have written whole books on Virginia or Kecksburg or Shag Harbor or many other. Yeah, you got one right here. I was telling you, unless he was down making a moment of contact with James.

Yeah, that's right. A few years ago. You can cite him in the next book. There you go. So I started to synthesize all these cases and the majestic documents, weaving, because they tell a big story about Roswell and about other crashes from 1897 onward. Uh, so that was the impetus of creating the book, um, at that time and, uh, just kept pushing along with, uh, ufology, uh, for those crash retrieval times. And then, uh, and family and kids and took a little pause, but, uh, basically in the last, oh, a couple of years, I've reemerged into the field and tried to focus on what I perceive as the fundamental big issues of ufology.

Yeah. Which are, in my mind, there's three of them. Credibility. There's not enough credibility in the field. Good point. Leadership. Are people doing what they can do to make a difference? Are they leveraging things? And then finally, the elephant in the room, money and funding.

I wrote a paper in 1999 called Ufology in Search of Leadership. And there was roughly a quarter of a million dollars spent on everything in ufology then. And now it's probably on the order of $2.5 million, excluding, you know, TV stuff. Ancient Aliens is not a pure play in my mind. I'll leave that one there. Yeah, right. I mean, they do good work at times

so and in theory you need to spend at least 20 or 30 million dollars you can't even protect one whistleblower for less than a million bucks why aren't there more whistleblowers well I'm going to lose my pension how can you protect me

and they if you want me to tell you everything I know, you better have the insurance policy to make sure I get paid for the rest of my life and that I get protected. And so that takes real money and let alone other things. But I'm just, I monologued on there, but. No, it's great. It's good to have the background.

And, you know, to your point, it seems like a lot of people have emerged over the past several years, especially since the 2017 disclosure, which can have a downside, too, because people start running to a space and you get a lot of disinformation in there as well. monetize it or people who could be there to literally try to muddy the waters if you know what i mean we'll talk about that today but you mentioned the first dinner where fucking stan stan friedman just rolls in like did you have any appreciation of that no no no no appreciation it's just another random guy coming to dinner who's damn it dad yeah exactly so that was uh that was fun i i remember sitting at the dinner table and and I heard about some of the first abduction cases of Brian Scott, which is – Brian Scott. Yeah, it's like one of the early ones. I don't even remember. I mean, you can look it up on the web. Maybe there's something on the web. Yeah, I don't know that one. Brian Scott.

Yeah, I don't remember to i just remember the name um and uh stan was talking about stanton and my father but he interviewed him he was uh um you know had an encounter or multiple encounters um and abductions and they did regression hypnosis analysis and that was the first time i got exposed to that whole methodology of analysis that's what john mack would do right yeah john mack or um or the other or jacobs for example david jacobs did wrote his wrote his book there but uh john mack was a seminal uh researcher from harvard you know that's huge book book called Abduction, which is in Ufodex, by the way.

Oh, your site. Yeah, ufodex.com. I just had Danny Sheehan in here actually, who was his lawyer for the last 10 years of his life. Yeah, Danny Sheehan came to the Crash Retrieval Conferences and gave a talk. Oh, that's awesome.

When he was young. He's still young.rieval Conferences and gave a talk. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, when he was young. Yeah, he's still young. That guy's insane. He's a firehose, man. Yeah, I know. He is a firehose. The challenge is to keep him on point and quiet. Well, you know what?

I just caught the back end of that. But he literally, you know, he has a photographic memory and you can just see him churning and making the timeline in his head while he's talking. And he'll just rip through the whole thing and you'll listen to it back later and you'll be like, oh, that made sense. When you're listening to it, you're just like, oh, my God, there's so many details there. Like, what are we even talking about here? And the guy, he's like almost 80 years old. But whatever that like energy gene is, he's got it. Right. I've never seen anything like it.

But he would speak at your conferences. Oh, yeah, yeah. He spoke there. I mean, Linda Moulton Howell spoke. There was a few, Nick Redfern and his work. Timothy Good once came. So there's a long list. And you can get the conference proceedings on Amazon UFO crash retrieval conference proceedings.

Oh, there's proceedings. Oh, yeah. I mean, I did it right. Do you guys wear like some cloaks and daggers in there? Well, I mean, every speaker had to write a paper or provide their PowerPoint slides. That's cool. So it was just like the MUFON conference in essence in that everybody had to submit a paper. And that always helped the quality and the credibility and the scientific focus of the presentations.

What do you think – we just mentioned the disclosure in 2017 and obviously everything that's happened since, but what do you make of the government having people who, you know, I had Lou Elizondo in here. He's one of them, the guys like Christopher Mellon, you can look at the science side, like how put off even Jacques Vallée, like these guys who have been in the Pentagon, you know, allegedly working with all this stuff? What do you make of like the government making an effort to have their people come out and say, it's real? Yeah, I think knowing Hal Putoff and knowing Jacques Vallée and knowing many of these people, I think that they were never really cleared for the truth. I mean, the deep truth. I mean, anti-gravity is the ultimate secret and they have always been,

or gravity control has been the key thing they're trying to control and protect. And so I think that they had some exposure to craft and that sort of thing, but I don't think they ever got read into the deepest compartmentalized secrets. I mean, there's sort of two compartments. There's the tech and the bodies. So they're naturally bifurcated since Roswell when they had a bunch of bodies or maybe earlier in Cape Girardeau in 41. Or maybe, you know, Grush's comment on 33

Magenta so I think that they're they've been exposed to a lot and they have a lot of knowledge and secrets that the government probably told them but I don't think there's layers upon layers upon layers

and that's the way you protect the ultimate secret of the most disruptive thing is gravity control. Yeah. And that's the holy grail that would rewire the world. It would solve a bunch of problems, both environmentally as well as energy. Can you elaborate on that? Sure. Well, there's sort of two ways to move the planet

from what I call a bunch of warring factions and political discord into a, you can now join the cosmic kindergarten of the galaxy. And the only way to do that is to, you know, get rid of the nukes, fix your environment, feed everybody, educate everybody. I mean, these are grand socialistic ideas, but I think that's, you know, you have to do that. And the you have to do that and the only way to do that is to solve the energy problem and so you can have two choices you have either uh fusion and a neutronic fusion basically radiation free neutrons um or radiation free uh fusion energy

what we're on my day job is a ceo of electric, so we're working on a roller bag. It's a casual day job. Yeah. Working on fusion in a roller bag that's portable. Or you do gravity control. So you either lower the cost of electricity by a factor of 10 to 100. You can do that with gravity control. If you have 1% less gravity here, you have a flywheel spinning

and the flywheel just keeps going. I mean, it is 1% gravity from the desk to space. And so that's a powerful thing that can be harnessed as well. So with free electricity, you can decarbonize the planet. You can suck, you know, they have decarbonization technologies right now that allow you to suck carbon dioxide out of the air. But it uses tons of electricity and that costs money. And that's the challenge is that you can't scale it up because electricity costs a lot of money and you burn hydrocarbons and so you want to get rid of the hydrocarbons

and there's only two ways to do it that i'm aware of i mean you could do some sort of tapping of zero point energy and make some box that uh does uh some sort of cashmere cavity some sort of cashmere cavity, some sort of approach to make electricity too. So those are the two or three ways that are possible to create super low-cost, free electricity, which would enable, along with Starlink, and grow food anywhere, suck water out of the air anywhere on the planet, turn the desert into green, et cetera. It takes time. I mean it takes 10, 20, 30 years a generation. But this is the process that I think we're on.

Well, you mentioned that maybe it would include like getting rid of nukes and stuff like that. That's tough. I was going to say like do you think we can live and stuff like that that's tough i was gonna say like do you think we can live in a world where that's the case because even if we figure some of these things out they're still going to be first second and third world countries they're still going to be rivalries they're still going to be people fighting over bullshit like race or whatever you know they choose today like humans are inherently flawed we are a flawed species in that way and i feel like when we start getting to the

and danny sheehan talks about the same thing but like it's an amazing goal of like oh let's have no nukes let's all get along let's suck energy out of the air like to me that's that says like all right yeah maybe like 12 000 years from now like am i too cynical to believe that no i mean that's a normal reaction i'll give you an example. One of the guys who was on my board of directors for frontline aerospace was Lieutenant General Kanaan. And so, you know, here's a career Air Force Academy lieutenant general who had a huge career. And I asked him one time, you know, Tim, what causes wars? And he, after going through Army War College

and all this experience, he says it's a lack of resources. It's fundamentally a lack of resources, be it water, fuel, education, power. There's a lot of things. But fundamentally, it turns out to be a lack of resources.

I think he's right. Yeah. No, I agree. And so if you start to chip away at that problem, you can change the dynamic. So they get to the point where, well, we don't need nukes anymore. We're satisfied. We don't have to have a contentious society. The other thing is miscommunication. So that's one of the big challenges. AI and more computer tech, we're going to get to the point where you can drop into the middle of Africa and have a little, you know, cell phone on your hip or something that dynamically translates everything from Swahili into English or any language, any other language, and all

linked to Starlink or something like that, or some other communication technology. And it's the miscommunication which causes wars and stress. Yes. And so if you clean that up, you sort of decrease the anxiety of people against people. And then maybe the final thing, which is really sort of out there, which I think some one of the uh alien abduction experiences highlighted was that oh gee the problem with planet earth is that the male female ratio is wrong yeah i said i had the same reaction the sort of oh weird now what now what

do you mean there and the the answer is that um you really need to have like five females for every one male. Basically, the female compassion and empathy and mindset is something that calms the whole population. Is that what starts wars? It's, you know, the 20 to 30-year-old male density is also highly contributing to this warring faction. You know, China is, God, they got all this unemployment and they're all in this prime age and they're all men. I'm just waiting for China to say, well, I think we need more water.

Let's go take over a big corner of Russia. Yeah, I hope you're wrong, but I understand why you think that way. Yeah, I mean, this is sort of the feedback from the ETs coming from their perspective, anthropological. We've seen this planet a million times before. From the ETs. Yeah, the ETs. This is a typical Earth planet. You've got a 50-50 male-female ratio.

But no, if you have a 20% male, it's not about sex or procreation or anything like that it's just about the calming effect of having less men and and their power and their their focus i mean it's as a controversial thing and i'm probably get get junk for it but well we we love a good ratio at the club that's all i'm saying i see five dudes walking in one check it's like get the fuck out of here see five checks in one dude you're like let's go. So anyway, I thought that'd be a little weird, but controversial. But I think it's relevant. Hey, look, it's a good start to our conversation because we've got a lot of controversial stuff

today. Yeah. But you open your book as far as like when you get to the retrievals with an ancient story. And it's the only one of its kind in there and it's about turkey and it's about at mount ararat yep and specifically you're getting into the question of whether or not you're looking at the remnants of noah's ark and somehow it's tied to ufos can you please explain this sure yeah. Well, Nick Redfern did some original work on this.

But the CIA had paid a lot of attention to Mount Ararat with 1957 overflights of U-2 and then 74 and 78. And then maybe a special operations team dropped in and pulled out. Yeah. Pulled out an alleged, you know, rusty old saucer. That was our boy Dale Comstock down there, baby. Delta Force. Delta Force.

Yeah. And so that's – but what's fascinating about that story is that multiple congressmen pushed their – the CIA and the intelligence community to say, give me the photographs. I mean, what's the big deal? Why can't I have a 1957 YouTube overflight? Give me the nine-inch negative of Mount Ararat. And to this day, they won't declassify and give it to you. And several other congressmen ask the same thing. And so I find it an interesting sort of early tickler that they're hiding something. There's something important, something classified about something so old,

about an old piece of dirt in the middle of Turkey. And from there, you know, I go from 3000 BC to 1897 in Aurora, Texas. But that's great. Like they're trying to date Noah's Ark, which is this not just ancient biblical story, it's this ancient story that exists on different planes across pretty much like every ancient text. Right. Yeah.

And there's a question there that like, oh, is there something extraterrestrial about it? Like, was it the aliens that said Earth is going to flood? Yeah. And we're going to send you a UFO hovercraft, Noah. It's speculation, but did the aliens cause the flood? This is the ancient alien theory, right? Is that Nephilim or the giants were getting too rambunctious with the humans.

And they needed to wipe it off and start over so they created the flood but you know i'm just speculating what i heard but i don't have any evidence for that but you mentioned the aurora one oh yeah where you start getting into like your timeline essentially goes from 1897 to almost present day right 2008 yeah right yeah The 1897 case was started by the late Jim Mars, who he wrote the book Crossfire about the Kennedy assassination, did a lot of research. He was a Dallas Fort Worth reporter, investigative reporter. And he did a lot of the work on the Aurora, Texas crash case. But in short, the rancher, I think, saw a UFO. It crashed into his windmill. There's a bunch of parts. They gave him a proper burial in the local cemetery.

They gave what was in the— Yeah, they found a little body, and they gave it a proper burial in the local cemetery. They gave what was in the... Yeah, they found a little body and they gave it a proper burial in the local cemetery. Who buried him? The local ranchers in 1897 or the farmer. I can't remember his name. And so there's even a plaque erected in Aurora, Texas as a state monument there. So that was an interesting case.

There was apparently some radiation. Didn't people's hands get fucked up? Yeah, their hands got fucked up with a gourd. And there's some pictures in the book where they're all disconfigured. You don't know if it's from radiation poisoning or natural causes or some combination of the two. The other thing is that the headstone had a little sort of triangular picture and a circle on it. Apparently there was two parts of the headstone, one part went away. And then the little alien was buried with parts of the saucer or the event, but that was dug up and disappeared and the headstone disappeared in, I don't know,

in the mid-70s or so forth. Was he dug up too? As far as I know, yes, and taken away. So he's gone. Yeah. I mean, nobody knows where the exact gravesite is anymore. This is the historical reporting and research of both Jim Mars and there was another investigator at the time that did that.

And it sort of disappeared in the middle of the night, the typical sort of thing that happens with all crash retrievals. But for 70 to 80 years, there was allegedly a body of a potential extraterrestrial buried in this Texas backwoods town. Right, in their cemetery. Or open plain town. Yeah, exactly. And no one dug it up for 70, 80 years. That was the part that was hung up on that one. Yeah, nobody dug it up as far as I know.

I mean, I'm not the primary investigator on the case. Jim Mars really was. Who was Jim Mars again? Jim Mars. He was an investigative reporter. He wrote a book called Rule by Secrecy, which is a very interesting classic, as well as he wrote the book JFK Crossfire, which was a national bestseller and all about the Kennedy assassination. He also wrote a book about 9-11. He's hitting all of them.

He's hitting all of them. He was a conspiracy researcher. And he was very well known, very well respected. I mean, since we've never met Jim Mars, but he was um uh i remember out in lawful nevada at one of the ufo conferences a bunch of us went off and and he could really smoke a cigar and down his whiskey and tell these incredible stories and uh it was it was impressive and that was the charm of him is that he was he was encyclopedic in his knowledge. The same thing with like Rich Dolan. I mean, he can be very... He can go. in ufology. And that's actually what motivated me in part to try to capture that wisdom into an

artificial intelligence tool called Ufodex, ufodex.com, is to get all that information, to be able to pull it in and be able to query it in a responsible, interesting manner. Yeah, we'll put the link to that down in the description for people. But essentially, it's AI that goes through all these different primary sources from ufology to answer a specific question you may have and spit it out for you. Yeah, that's well said. But you can ask specific and challenging questions. You know, you can do the simple things like, you know, what's the ET agenda or complicated things like compare and contrast the three major aerospace companies' efforts on reverse engineering. Please cite the names of the people and the programs if you have knowledge and give me the sources and file names of your references. So you can do lots of different things or everybody has questions.

That's the thing is everybody wants, they have their own expertise, their own motivation, their own enthusiasm. And they want to get their question answered you know it's i really enjoy presentations where you know the speaker does you know half speaking and half questions because everybody in the audience has their own hot button oh yeah for sure yeah yeah so back to this case though in aurora yeah where so if if it gets dug up in the 70s who's doing that you think do they have do they have any idea down there in aurora that might have been well um i'm sure it's the control group or MJ-12. I mean, what's interesting is that in one of the majestic documents, I think it's in 42 or 47, they mention, let's reinvestigate the Aurora, Texas, 1897 case, or let's start there in our complete analysis of ufology and so maybe it was um back in the 40s that they uh started looking at it maybe in the 40s that the little alien was dug up

but the headstone was left um where the parts were retrieved. Actually, now that I hear myself talk about it, I think that's what happened. Because any responsible intelligence agency or counterintelligence people would have said, oh, we got that. We can't let that hang around. They let it hang out there for a long time. Yeah. Well, if they got it in the 40s, they let it hang out for 50 years, you know. Yeah. Right.

So let's get that. And I'm sure that there's been many other, I mean, there's other crashes that happened in Cape Girardeau in 41. What happened there? Well, Cape Girardeau is also mentioned in the Majestic documents. So. You know what, can I cut you off for one second, just for people to have context out there, then we'll come right to Cape Girardeau. Can you just take us through Majestic 12 and what that is and the history of it being uncovered? Because there's questions, there's people that try to say it was debunked, there's people that try to say it was real, but I just want to make sure the listeners have context, they know what we're talking about. No, that's perfect. So the broad brush is that there's been a series of leaked documents starting in 1984.

And the last one is like 1999 or 2000 from seven different sources spanning some 3,500 pages of leaked documents. That's a few. That's a few. Some of it classified top secret magic. Like that, right? Yeah. Well, like this one. Yeah. This is the first one that is the Eisenhower briefing document. I'll hold that up to my camera real quick. This is a first generation negative from the Eisenhower briefing document, which came in 1984 what does that mean first generation negative well so you have a undeveloped tri-x film that came in the mail to jamie chandre in la

uh it was an la producer so you go to the dark room and you develop it and then you print it and so this is a first-generation print from that. And it says Top Secret Magic on the top of it. M-A-J-I-C. Yeah, and that stands for Military Assessment of the Joint Intelligence Committee. M-A-J-I-C. They've got these big terms back there. Yeah, right. Well, there's a document called that. And then it has a whole list of people down at the front.

The alleged 12. The alleged original MJ-12. And this is the one that somebody sent to the FBI, and the FBI ran around all the three-letter agencies and said, well, did you lose this? And none of them said, we lost it. Oh, yeah, because they were going to tell the truth. Right, exactly, exactly. Oh, you didn't lose anything? Case closed. Right, so they stamp it bogus,

and the FBI says it's bogus, and they have it on the web, and they have it in the National Archives as, quote, bogus, because nobody admitted that they lost it. Can I read this for people right now? This is pretty cool. So it says, as you pointed out, Ryan, it says top secret magic eyes only on the top, like

it's stamped on. And then down here it says Operation Majestic 12 is a top secret research and development intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the president of the united states allegedly was set up by truman operations of the project are carried out under control of the majestic 12 magic 12 group which was established by special classified executive order of president truman on 24 september 1947 about a couple years after the nukes here upon recommendation by dr vannevar bush and secretary james forestall who i know james fox has brought up a bunch the members of majestic 12 group were

designated as follows admiral roscoe h hillencoder first director of the cia okay dr vannevar bush secretary james forestall general nathan twining General Hoyt Vandenberg, Dr. Detlev Bronk, Dr. Jerome Hunsaker, Mr. Sidney Sowers, Mr. Gordon Gray, Dr. Donald Menzel, General Robert Montague, and Dr. Lloyd Berkner. Yeah. Okay. So some of those people are very interesting in that... Yeah.

Can we get context? Yeah. No, I'll give you a few that – Yeah, can we get context? Yeah. No, I'll give you a few that I have a good memory for. Well, Hill and Coder is very interesting. He was the first director of the CIA, and he's got a lot to do with pushing this along, as well as Vannevar Bush, who was head of OSRD, Office of Scientific Research and Development. He was the key scientific guy. So he's a super scientist and managed all the crash retrieval analysis and reverse engineering in that effort. Okay.

And then you go to James Forrestal. Forrestal is interesting for, I have Forrestal's FBI file. And yeah, I have a bunch of FBI files. But he had sort of a drinking problem, a little bit of psychological stress, but he also was sort of thrown out the window as the hospital defenestrated, so to speak. He couldn't fly. He couldn't fly. And now the question is why, and was he going to tell the truth? He was a loose cannon. Was he mentally unstable at the time? But, you know, he was the, you know, Secretary of the Navy. General Nathan Twining was the key guy in the Roswell

investigation, and then, and was very much the good soldier and worked hard at the whole Roswell reverse engineering. Hoyt Vandenberg was his boss. D. Liv Bronk was a scientist um somebody capable of doing an autopsy of an alien in one of the majestic documents capable of doing capable he actually did an autopsy of an alien that was in one of the majestic documents he worked uh was good friends with leslie groves the head of the manhattan project matt damon uh in the movie yeah matt damon in the movie right um and then um uh don menzel was a famous harvard astronomer um and sort of a debunker of ufology. So he's a disinformation agent in the front-facing world of ufology in that era. And Lloyd Berkner was another one working with Bush and plugged into the White House. I actually got, I think in Berkner's FBI file, I have a document that says he was assigned to the White House for Special Studies

Project, quote, M for majestic in theory. It doesn't say majestic, but there was another person that has the the highest level. In the Majestic Documents, I have this list on MajesticDocuments.com of MJ-12 personnel, which is like 100 names of people and their affiliation, their Social Security numbers, their military ID numbers, their date of birth, date of death. And that's all findable on MajesticDocuments.com. Guys, if you're still watching this video and you haven't yet hit that subscribe button, please take two seconds and go hit it right now. Thank you.

Yeah, let's pull up the Wikipedia the wikipedia because this is going to be biased against majestic 12 oh yeah they debunk like everything on there i just want to see yeah what that says for people so again like they're gonna debunk everything on there to take this with a grain of salt but go down alessi well let's let i'll the the top i pretty much already read off what that is go down to analysis all right so class's investigation of the mj12 documents found that robert cutler was actually out of the country on the date he supposedly wrote the cutler twining memo and that the truman's signature hold on we lost the screen yeah truman's signature was a pasted on photocopy of a genuine signature including accidental scratch marks from a memo that Truman wrote to Vannevar Bush on October 1, 1947.

Can you scroll down, Leslie? Class dismissed theories that the documents were part of a disinformation campaign as ridiculous, saying they contained numerous flaws that could never fool Soviet or Chinese intelligence. Other discrepancies noted by Klaas included the use of a distinctive date format that matched one used in Moore's personal letters and a conversation reported by Brad Sparks in which Moore confided that he was contemplating creating and releasing some hoax top-secret documents in hopes that such bogus documents would encourage former military and intelligence officials who knew about the government's alleged UFO cover-up to break their oath of secrecy.

Yeah, no, those are the classic objections. So I'll make a few comments. One is that Truman had an auto-pen, which is a pen where you move your hand once and five other pens do the same thing at the same time. Yeah, it's called an auto pen. I have a picture of Truman using it. Can we get, is that on the internet? It's on, I think it's on majesticdocuments.com in photos. So are the pens attached to each other?

Mechanically attached. Oh, okay. All right, that makes sense. I thought you were talking about like magic anti-gravity pens or some shit. No, no, no. They're mechanically attached. And it's something called an auto pen. so they used it for signing invitations and signing documents and the whole date format thing that class mentions um is uh was widely debunked

by uh by stan friedman and written up in his book he actually won a bet against class for uh a hundred dollars a signature a $100 per date format. How many date formats were there? Well, Klass refused to pay past 10, so he paid $1,000 to Stan Friedman. But Friedman found like 20, 25. Wow. Yeah, these were all at the Library ofash uh library of congress manuscript division so that whole that whole message um is uh and then class himself uh is part of the disinformation campaign uh in ufology

i distinctly remember him coming to a variety of conferences and sitting in the front row and basically throwing barbs and refusing to accept any evidence. He clearly had connections to government agencies, and his focus was on debunking the same way Richard Doty is in his history. And there are several others that are also, Bill Moore is mentioned there in that Wikipedia mention. And Bill Moore in 1989 was in the Las Vegas MUFON conference and he ran out the back of the stage

when the CIA was brought up and he's questioned about that. He, so he had a, and my father knew him. I had met Bill Moore before. So this needs to be done. I mean, to do a good job of writing a book about the, the cases and aspects of disinformation and ufology. There's many other cases. Richard Doty tried to manipulate Linda Moulton Howe on several classified documents.

How so? What do you mean manipulate her? He showed her a bunch of documents and then was going to give them to her and then took them away. The thing to do would be to interview Linda and ask her what's going on. I've heard her talk about it before.

I remember the Paul Benowitz story where Richard Doty was also involved where they basically tried to, and Bill Moore as well, psychologically destroy and manipulate a man to suicide. I believe Darcy Weir talked about that one, right? Alessi, that was the same one, because he was talking about Richard Doty. Yeah. And so there are cases like that. I'm not an expert in that.

I just hear that through osmosis of being around the field for a long time. So going back to the majestic documents, there's this Jamie Chandra event. And then the next major event happened 1994, when a undeveloped film canister of Tri-X film, again, was mailed to Don Berliner in Washington, D.C., who was an aviation week and space reporter. And when developed, it turned into the Special Operations Manual, Extraterrestrial Entities Technology Recovery and Disposal. So this particular manual is the most powerful, the most authentic, the highest confidence of all the majestic documents. I've done the most analysis along with my father about its authenticity. And how do you authenticate something like this?

Well, we'll take the first page just for an example. So you see at the bottom, there's the war seal. So first of all, you find another manual that's in 1954 that has the war seal. And so you can go to the government documents library at Stanford or CU Boulder or Library of Congress, et cetera, and pull up other manuals that use the war seal. Some of the critics have said, well, this is fake because the government issued an order in 1952. You're not supposed to use the war seal on any documents anymore. You're supposed to use the federal seal or something.

And so it's fake because of that. But no, you could find other examples of where they used it. And so that is a hallmark of authenticity, for example. Or the style of the Psalm 101 at the very top in that style is correct. Is that copyable, though, 40 years later? Well, this leaked in 1994. Right. And this was April 1954, allegedly. Right, well, the latest edition of that was 57. But when you say copyable, could you fake it?

Yes, the CIA could fake it. The question is why, or the KGB could have faked it. But the question is why, why leak KGB could have faked it, but the question is why, why leak it? Why? It's a disinformation thing. So I think it's not so much a clandestine leak to try to do something to scare the living daylights out of the Chinese or the Russians or the Israelis or whoever about it. It's more that it's authentic. And there's a couple other points of authenticity before I just moan on, really. The biggest thing is on the inside page, there's what's called a change control page, where it's stamped Kirkland Air Force Base N.Max Unit KB88 Building 21. And there's initials EWL and JRT that for the changing out certain

pages in the manual. Uh, and so I said, who are these guys, EWL and JRT? And I went to the, uh, Albuquerque phone book, uh, for 1954 and found the two officers, their names in the phone book. And they both were on perimeter road, like four houses from each other. One was a lieutenant colonel and one was a captain, I think. And so I literally found the guys that were responsible for marking that. The also thing that we did is we took this manual to – Well, they were purported to, right? And what did they – did you talk to them?

I hired a private investigator to go find them and try to talk to them. One was dead and the other wouldn't talk. But the point is that this came out in 94. This is before computers. The next thing we did was we took it to Robert McCarter, who is a retired government printing office employee, basically wrote the government printing style manual for several years, which is a big thick book, all about the nature of how you write government documents. And my father and I went to his house in Virginia. We had this green card table and we slid this document across to him and said, well, what do you think of this? And his response was, well, by the title, I would think it's fake.

But then he flared flipping through all the pages and said, oh, the Z in synchronizer was raised off the line, which is an artifact of a hot lead printing press. So and he said federal was capitalized correctly and that screwdriver. Why do you think the first page was fake? I don't know. Just from the title, it was so weird. He'd never seen extraterrestrial entities, technology. So that was sort of his – as a Joe Blow citizen in the mid-'90s saying – Right. And he went through and concluded that this follows all the various style details associated

with hot lead printing presses and classified documents and some of the what they call entomology, which is the word usage. That's critical. That's critical. It's critical. So, for example, screwdriver is two words or one word today. And in the document, it's two words, which is a hallmark of or first aid was capitalized instead of a single word today. And there's other little subtleties in the language use, as well as all

the references in the back were correct. But these are sort of hallmarks of the authenticity. What was so stunning is the content. You know, if you just go to the page that says what to do with the bodies and the parts and where to send it and ship it. That's the, you know, from Wright-Patterson Blue Lab to Area 51 S4. So that's the part that's very interesting. Whoa. Okay. I see that right here. It says like living entity, living non-human organisms in apparent good or reasonable health. Code EBE010, receiving facility, OPNAC BBS-01. Yeah. Now, are we able to have, well, some of these say Area 51 S4, which a lot of people have heard of. Yeah. But are we able to know if all these are government or actually run by a contractor? Well, I think they're all

government. I think that this time, I mean, Area 51 S4 is great. And the blue lab at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Oh, yeah, WP. Yeah, WP. But OPNAC BBS-01 is still somewhat of a mystery. I think BBS-01 stands for Bronx, Detlef Bronx Biological Section. What makes you say that? Well, because Bronx was the guy who did the autopsy of the alien, along with Charles Ethan Ray in the Majestic Documents.

So those are the two guys that did... And then, you know, we're getting ahead of ourselves, but in one of the Majestic Documents, the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit document, it says D. Lefbronk and Charles Ray did the autopsy of an alien. And I said, well, who's this guy, Charles Ethan Ray? And so I hunted around and he was a surgeon. He also was at the Mayo Clinic and worked with Leslie Groves. And he had the

credentials to do an autopsy of an alien. And then I called up his daughter in Seattle and talked to her on the phone. What'd she say? I said, well, do you think your father autopsied an alien? And she said, yeah yeah I wouldn't put it past him yeah she didn't elaborate she didn't say that he ever told her that she did it he did it but he no hesitation in her voice we talked a little bit about her her father and she sent me some documents and pictures and so forth. But you can get his military personnel file. And he was part of the medical corps and very relatively famous. There's a huge plaque about him in Minnesota. So he's a real stalwart, along with

D. LeBron. I mean, if in 1947, you wanted to do an autopsy of an alien, these are two people you'd tap, particularly because Leslie Groves, the head of the Manhattan Project, would have chosen these people in a super classified way to do that. Yeah, that Leslie Groves guy had a lot of behind-the-scenes power. Jesse Michaels was in here talking about him a bit too. He keeps coming up in a lot of conversations, but he's a mysterious guy in this history. Yeah, and he's somebody that needs more research. For example, I don't have his FBI file, but you could certainly file for it. And you could get his military personnel file probably faster than you can get his FBI file, but you could certainly file for it. And you could get his military personnel file. Probably faster than you can get the FBI file.

Why faster? Because the National Personal Records turns things around in three months to six months where the latest request for this guy, Lay. No, no, he's not on this list, but, um, I put in a request and they, they had 3,900 pages at the national archives and, um, and their response was, well, if you want us to declassify all 3,900 pages, you got to get in line and it'll be six years. Six years. Six years. I might be dead in six years. Exactly. I might have moved, you know. But if you reduce your request to 400 pages, we can get you in the queue faster. We have your higher priority and it'll be 39 months. That's still over three years. Exactly.

So this is an example of how the cover-up works, is that the National Archives doesn't have the resources to even process all the people. I have a long list. I could give the National Archives 40, 50 names of people that need their files declassified, and they don't have enough lawyers or resources to go through it and declassified and they don't have enough lawyers or resources to go through it and declassify it all so it's underfunded and

Congress passed that law recently, it was sort of stripped down but it still requires the National Archives to publish on their website UFO, UAP stuff as well as submitted to, I think, AATIP. So they're doing some work and it's difficult to get them to focus on what I want. I wrote them a letter. I wrote the archivist, uh, head archivist, the letter saying, you know,

if you want help in pointing you in the right direction to find the truth in the national archives, uh, I can help you. And they never responded. Yeah. I didn't think they would. Yeah. So, uh, anyway, that's, um, so we're talking about the majestic documents. So that's the Special Operations Manual, 1994. And then there's a variety of documents that come to Tim Cooper and some – Who was Tim Cooper again? Tim Cooper is father, Harry B. Cooper, worked at Air Force Base in the National Photographic Interpretation Center.

And he got an accommodation from Curtis LeMay for his outstanding work in the USAF UFO program, which I have. It's in my book, Magic Eyes Only, an example of this combination letter with the gold seal and everything. Curtis LeMay, another strange dog back there. Yeah, right, who definitely was up to his eyeballs in control. Yes. Harry B. Cooper did a lot of work printing lots of classified documents in a cage at Air Force Base, which is now, I think, Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado. And his son, Tim, was watching his father at the JFK assassination on TV. And his father basically burst into tears and said, oh my God, they did it.

And this made a really lasting impression on Tim. And he learned more from his father about UFOs and started filing Freedom of Information Act requests for lots of various things at White Sands Proving Grounds. And he was very much, he was a private investigator. He was a detective by training. Yeah. And so he did a level of investigative journalism that I haven't done, but I've got a lot of his original research.

But his dad says, oh, my God, they did it. They did it, yeah. And it's the connotation there that he had something to do with UFOs. And his emotional crying of his father is that the counterintelligence guys assassinated Kennedy. Now, the question is, why did they assassinate? And so there's lots of reasons. I mean, there's a lot of reasons. But you could add the, he's going to tell the UFO secret.

And there's also one of the majestic documents called National Security Action Memorandum number 271 and 274, one FOIA released and one leaked. But basically it says, like, I don't know, a week before he's assassinated, I want you, this is a memo to the head of NASA, James Webb, saying I want you to share the knowns and the unknowns with the Russians. With the Russians. With the Russians.

The unknowns being UFOs. And basically, I think that may have been yet another reason. They're like, all right, this guy's got to go. This guy's got to go. He wants to open the kimono and share the secret sauce with the Russians. He just, you know, he'd gone through the Bay of Pigs and, you know, the whole nuke thing. And that was not a pleasant experience for Kennedy and all those back channels. And we need to stop this. And he decided to make a strategic decision to say, let's, outcomes of those conversations

were these discussions between the two of them about the dangers of nukes and about decreasing the supply of nukes and disarming both. And so when you talk with a lot of these ex-Intel guys, especially the ones who have some Cubano in their background, I think usually because of that and even more so than the Bay of Pigs it seems to me at this point, that's why they like – they'll still call him a traitor or whatever. I would disagree with that assertion for sure. But, you know, there were just so many things in even just like the six to nine months before he was killed, where he was on, say, the wrong side of the issue versus intelligence. And then the head gets blown off. Right. And James Jesus Angleton, which is the head of counterintelligence. The spookiest of them all.

Right. Where a lot of the majestic documents and these leaks to Tim Cooper occurred. that kept giving Tim these various mail drops, as well as some direct mailings from other parties, was a gentleman by the name of a pseudonym called Cantwheel. And Cantwheel claimed to be part of the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit, the IPU. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and the IPU has been freely admitted in multiple Freedom of Information Act requests to be a real unit, part of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Technical and Scientific Branch, Counterintelligence, Interplanetary Phenomena Unit. So there's this chain down and um cantwheel was you know going to the um crash retrievals in uh at the la air raid in uh in 42 right and and at

roswell and maybe many other cases and had a a fairly large file of material sort of outside of, you know, the Army, the Air Force and the other agencies. So he was, he had a lot of information and I think he was one of the people that was probably recruited to declassify material at Fort Meade because he had all these tickets and clearances. And he was sympathetic to young Tim, who he knew, knew through his father. And when his FOIA requests came by, he decided to do some leaking. And that's how I think it happened for Tim. And over several years, he got a variety of mailbox drops. I have some of the original envelopes. Some were mailed to his post office box. Some were put inside his post box. Some were mailed from Sacramento. One of the most interesting ones, which is original documents,

this is the Bowen Encyclopedia of Flying Saucers. So sort of changing the subject a little bit, Vernon Bowen wrote this book about Encyclopedia of Flying Saucers, basically a history of flying saucers from 1960 backwards. And he went to the New York Public Library, did a lot of research. He was a copywriter. And he submitted this to the Air Force as being a duly good citizen. And it went in and never came back out except 39 years later from the Freedom of Information Act office at Fort Meade, Maryland to Tim Cooper.

And this, this original document, which I have here, which is, it says the highest classification for this document is top secret magic. No foreign dissemination for USIs only exempt for declassification or RADA originating agency. This is the original one.

This is the original paper. They came. I have other original pieces of paper. This is the original one. This is the original paste paper that came. I have other original pieces of paper. You'll never see that except out of my hands or out of my safe. But, you know, I'd love to do, we did forensic on ink and paper and pencil marks, but we can't get exemplars to compare against the inks when the top secret stamped, you know, this red stamp that's here. So to do forensics on that, you need to punch out a little hole and do that. Well, no, on this, this is the most, file copies probably. We can do both, but you need to do liquid chromatography on the dots. Liquid chromatography.

Liquid chromatography on the dots to do the forensic analysis, but you've got to have something to compare with. What is that, liquid chromatography? So you punch out a little hole, you put in some chemicals, and it goes out of gel, and it fingerprints the ink. That's really the principle. So you can fingerprint the ink. the national archives found another top secret manual or top secret document of this era that wasn't um uh stamped top secret magic something something else something prosaic and you were

able to take a little thing a little dot out of it and compare them you send it off to a forensic laboratory to do it and they write a report and say, yep, we compared the two inks. They're of the same batch or style. They were both Air Force inks. Then you have something you say, oh, I can prove in a court of law that this is really from this era. And so that's the forensics that you have to do to sort of prove things to the next level but the national archives will never let you uh take your original document and put a little hole

in it of course and take it out so did you get this again this was mailed to uh tim cooper yeah 300 pages but did he give it to you yeah you got give it to my father uh father and i uh who just passed away three weeks ago oh your dad passed away three weeks ago yeah oh i'm sorry to hear that well let's see he was he was 96 um and you know, he had been investigating UFOs earnestly since, well, since 1967. It was a theoretical, well, it was a physicist and a rocket scientist at McDonnell Douglas. Douglas and then McDonnell Douglas and then Boeing. Oh, at Boeing, too? At Boeing, too.

Oh, he hit them all? He hit them all. That's the same program, same company. You know, Douglas became McDonnell Douglas, then came Boeing. So they were all there. I know, too. Oh, he hit them all? He hit them all. That's the same program, same company. You know, Douglas became McDonald Douglas, then came Boeing. So they were all there. I know, but he hit every era. He hit every era. When he retired in 93, he was working on the space station.

Wow. Yeah. So he did rockets. He did this anti-gravity program at Douglas Aircraft Company. And he did a lot of contributions. He wrote this book, Alien Viruses. Alien Viruses. Yeah.

Oh, I love this cover right here. Alien Viruses is available on Amazon. I'm getting some flashbacks. Yeah. Here we go. This is Bio bio warfare mj12 and crashed ufos so it goes a little bit more into the bio warfare aspect is one of the leaked majestic documents i think it's the uh the fifth annual report talks about the serums collected from the samples of the Roswell aliens can launch us to unheard of heights in biological and chemical warfare. All right.

Based on what sources do we know that? Well, that's one of the leaked documents. It's in a paragraph in one of the leaked documents. It's on Majestic Documents. One of the Majestic ones. On the MajesticDocuments.com website. Now, your dad, who's quite literally a rocket scientist, did this for many, many years. Yeah.

Friends with guys like Stanton Friedman. Yeah. Stanton Friedman worked for him for three months. Worked for him. So your dad is obviously a genius. And yet, for so many years, he felt like this was something worth using his genius for, pursuing the investigation of potential craft that the government could be in possession of. Yeah. I mean, he had seen lights in the sky and forensics. He sort of decided to focus on

authenticating documents as sort of his focus. And I tagged along for the ride. And we have so much in the way of the majestic documents now. And we've done a lot of authenticity that I'm carrying on the mantle of advocating for the trove of documents that have been leaked so far. And talking about why they're authentic. It's not that I'm, you know, head over heels. Every document can be investigated so far and they have, like crashes, have authenticity. You know, some can be thoroughly investigated

and some you can't do much with. Like the Aquarius documents, for example, there was another leak, but it was allegedly a briefing for Carter. But there's not much to authenticate. Wait, a briefing for Carter? Yeah, a briefing. Because I just had Sheehan in here talking about how Carter wanted to know, and he had to like go to the, know underneath congress to try to get the docs

yeah well uh this is one of the challenges with um this particular document this aquarius document is that allegedly it was a briefing for carter um and uh i don't know i have to go look it up on the the web but you can't do much investigation or analysis on it because it doesn't have a bunch of facts to check. And so it's in the gray basket, as Stan Friedman would call it, or the neutral zone where you can't push the needle of authenticity one way or the other. And so you're just left with, oh, interesting sort of of uh that particular document so uh and so there's a lot of um a lot of documents we got original documents we got uh photocopies and leaked documents some have gone through lots of forensic analysis some have not so this is a mismatch there's lots of pictures too. Some

are on the website. Some are still in my filing. And since my father died, I cleaned out his office and I cleaned out 23 boxes of material, books, filing cabinets, and I'm still just going through it. And I don't know, I went through one filing cabinet. You know, here's a write-up, some background, and a little vial of allegedly Roswell crash parts. Well, it was dust or granules. He had a vial of that. He had a vial of it. I didn't know anything about it.

It's like, okay, Ted, when were you going to tell me this shit? So – and there's a bunch of stuff, and I suspect there's probably some other leaked Majestic documents in there that he didn't share with me. He didn't tell me everything, but we work closely together. Most of the major stuff is all on the website. What did your dad think this was? Did he ever give a real definition to you of that? And what I mean is, did he look at this as purely extraterrestrials potentially coming from another planet in the galaxy far, far away? Or did he look at it as future humans or some sort of other phenomenon like that?

What was his take? So there's two answers to that i think the short answer is that uh there's multiple civilizations with multiple missions visiting planet earth that was his conclusion but he was a physicist so he was far more interested in the nuts and bolts of of gravity control and what is what's the analysis of the electromagnetic spectrum or what is it why are some of these early craft having you know smoke rings around them that seems really weird or uh it was it was far more the uh the nuts and bolts of the science of ufology and the evidence and the authenticity of documents. So that was his sort of lane. We both sort of were fascinated by abductions or interface experiences, but never really investigated those.

We didn't go down that path. You were more interested in the engineering side. Yeah, the engineering side, exactly. And that was our focus. So that was his conclusion. It's sort of my conclusion too. And there's lots of reasons. People ask, what's the ET agenda?

And different races have different agendas, from the grays being maybe more genetic manipulation to the blonde Nordics being more altruistic and benevolent. But I'm just sort of speculating, sort of highlighting what the AI ufologist – Your latest book. Yeah, the latest book that I did, The AI Ufologist, which was a really fun process. I was working on electric fusion, you know, my day job, and using AI. So we had taken, you know, two or three hundred scientific papers and went through, put them all into AI and started to analyze them for fusion interactions and how we do various potential fusion devices and so forth.

And I was so impressed with the quality of that that I said, well, I don't know, what happens if I just take, I had all these PDFs that I had scanned long ago and ask it questions. And so I did that. And the first question of what's the agenda? And I get 14 paragraphs back in one minute. Yeah, exactly. And what was the most compelling part of that answer? The breadth and the completeness. It's like, oh, I got like five or six of them right,

and I've been in the field a long time, but I had forgotten a lot of the other ones. So it was, you know, that was the thing that was powerful. You know, what's the agenda? Scientific study. I mean, that's the sort of typical one. Then resource acquisition. Resource acquisition.

Yeah, they're here for water or gold or you know human gna is what you know uh benevolent guidance uh well we've got to urge this little emerging planet to clean up its act in the next hundred years and join the cosmic kindergarten benevolent guidance could could point to either you know some sort of like we are a simulation or where they're a video game that could be it or it could point to like the future humans argument where they're playing with dimensions and potentially coming into this dimension as we exist here right now visiting it to try to improve its future i mean that's yeah when i see stuff like some of the things that were alleged in virginia but then really

specifically in 1994 in zimbabwe that's where my thought goes huh maybe that could be something from the future because of the the almost like the calm gravity with which the alleged ets express their hope for our potential as a as as a human race yeah right on julian i mean that's uh very very relevant um you know some of the other ones that they they highlighted benevolent intentions intentions in contrast to benevolent. And then there's the sort of I just don't give a damn, the indifference attitude. Survival was another concept that came up.

Survival. Survival. I'm, you know, from planet Z. My sun is exploding and, you know, I need to find a new place. And so I'm whipping over to planet Earth. They got some good places in Antarctica, under the ocean, under the Earth that I can come and visit and hang out.

And there's a good environment here, maybe. There's diplomatic relations. Diplomatic. Diplomatic. There's the alleged Eisenhower Accords and all that stuff. Is that, well, let's start a diplomatic relationship. Well, some of them may be doing that.

There's the whole observation or anthropological approach where, you know, I'm getting my PhD in anthropology on emerging kindergarten civilizations. Let's go over to planet Earth and see how they manage this nuke, no nuke, kill the world, environmental conflict, overpopulation, dot, dot, dot, you know, all the problems of the world. Experimentation, you know, let's tune up these inhabitants, maybe give them a DNA boost or somehow tweak their biology to maybe have more girls and less boys uh you know who the rest

may be coming um spiritual and metaphysical goals you know if they're all practicing buddhism uh it's going to be happier world uh you know i something for with hope yeah exactly or genetic manipulation uh salvation preservation of genetic salvation salvation of human species aliens may be acting as guardians of humanity concerned about our future survival this can involve plans to rescue a select group of humans in the event of global catastrophe ensuring the continuation of the species you know so that's heavy it's heavy so that's an example of the sophistication of ai i mean at times it writes better than i can it's getting scary out there yeah exactly yeah um and then uh preservation of genetic stocks um and then uh you know some sort of advanced cosmic consciousness so what what impressed me with that that flew before my screen in under a minute was wow that is good

and then i asked the next question of well why did they abduct humans uh and it gave this huge list and the next question the next question and 16 hours i was did they abduct humans? And it gave this huge list. And the next question, the next question, and 16 hours I was done. It was like I was possessed. I was in the zone, just going for it, asking tougher and tougher questions about, you know, how does, why does MJ-12 do what it does? Or how do you resolve the conflict between MJ-12 and transparency? How do you come clean? Or what's the reaction of the economies and the business environment to a certain level of disclosure?

And so it was a very interesting, um, process and, and, and I enjoyed it. It was, uh, and I sent it off for review and there's lots of, uh, these are all yours. I'm going to, Oh, thank you so much. I have this one on Kindle as well. Um, so that, that's a fun, uh, twist. Um, and I, and I'll, I used, uh used ufodex.com. I'm going to probably do it every year and do the next edition where because I get more and more data, the answers can get more complete. And AI will get better. Right, exactly. AI, it's just moving so fast.

And it's scary because you know how much faster it is behind the scenes of what we don't have. And you see how fast it's moving out here right now exponentially. I mean, when I started using Midjourney in February 2023, I used it for James Fox's first episode, 138. That was the first time I ever used it. Looking at that then versus now night and day and that's just some bullshit app that like you know someone like me can use to produce some pictures but you see some of these like ai movies short films that are being produced and you know they still suck but like the impressive quality of being able to get like some sort of cinematic theme in the lens, you know, having characters, having a real, you know, plot point or whatever, it's only going to get better. Right.

That's right. I particularly focused on text, you know, trying to get the silo of ufological data. I mean, AI still has a garbage in, garbage out problem. And so I was going to manage that problem by only putting what I considered to be high quality information in. Right. I mean, you still have books and periodicals, but I also have FBI files, stuff from the National Archives and things that are… Primary sourced. Primary sources, right.

Yeah, gotcha. Yeah. And so that was the impetus for that particular exploration into AI. And I still use it and it's still a powerful tool to start people down the path to investigate. Yeah. Now, I had gotten you off of the Cape Girardeau case like an hour ago, right? And we got deep on Majestic and everything, which was good. But I know people out there didn't want to be left hanging on that.

So what happened in that one? Yeah. Well, in one of the Majestic documents, there's a mention of the Missouri 41 crash. And Stan Friedman had heard about this case from Charlotte Mann, who is the granddaughter of Reverend Huffman. And Reverend Huffman was a Baptist minister in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. And he lived on Main Street. And he was called to give blessings to three dead, allegedly cloned aliens. They looked identical.

Blessings. Blessings. Because they wanted that. Yeah, that's what, you know, in 41 in baptist world it's blessings rather than we're gonna bring you to christ in death that's right so that was his um that was what the local police asked so he was driven in a squad car about 15 minutes out of town um they put a little blanket over his head yeah no they didn't they didn't put a blanket over his head yeah uh and he was driven out of town into a field and there was uh sort of an

acorn crashed burnt saucer and three dead aliens and he he gave him last rites or blessings and they did he describe what they looked like no he's not in the testimony given to Charlotte Mann from her grandmother. That would be – that's kind of an oversight though, no? Like I feel like that's the first thing I would do. I'd probably like say I saw three fucking aliens. Here's what they look like, no? I mean, Charlotte Mann got her information from both osmosis throughout her time with her grandfather, Reverend Huffman, and grandmother, Flo Huffman. They had talked about a little picture of an alien and occasionally she heard whispers about all this crash and so forth. And it was after Reverend Huffman had died

and Flo Huffman was basically on her deathbed in the last few days, that Charlotte Mann pressed her grandmother for details about this event. And over those few days, Flo Huffman provided Charlotte Mann with all these details about the event. And that's where this story comes from. And it's written up in the book, Magic Eyes Only.

I interviewed her on camera several times. And it's the subject of a 2002 or 2003 MUFON conference proceedings. Rich Dolan's interviewed her a couple of times. Anybody that ever talks to her, she's very sincere, very genuine in her responses. And so Reverend Huffman was called out, provided blessings, and then the military showed up and swept up the bodies. Everybody's sworn to secrecy. And it's all taken down to Sykeston base, which was where they trained a lot of World War II pilots in Cape Girardeau, which is 30 minutes down the road or so.

Oh, that's why it's called the Cape Girardeau. Yeah, Cape Girardeau was where it was at. And so then you back up and say, well, what investigation did you do, Ryan, to analyze what was going on here? So you have the testimony, you have a document, you have the witness.

And so what I did next, and Paul Blake Smith continued on in his book, Missouri 41, that he wrote about the Cape Girardeau event, is that I went there, went to the Baptist Church and found pictures of the reverend and the church at the time and tried to figure out on a map in a 1941 roadmap, you know, what is 15 minutes driving at certain miles per hour. Imagine you're a police car going and trying to identify the various zones or fields that could be the right locations. And then I cross-referenced that with historical aerial photography at the National Archives. So I got 1939 aerial photography and 1942 or 43 aerial photography in 1942 or 43 aerial photography and look for places where there's disturbances and try to isolate where this crash could occur. And so the fundamental challenge with all crash retrievals is precisely where and precisely when did it occur. And if you have those two clues, you can make a

lot, a lot of progress on figuring it out. So then I went to the National Archives to try to figure out, well, where was it? And I had a few spots. And then you go back to Cape Girardeau and you discover, well, one of the areas is a housing contract, housing track now. And then I took Joe McMonigold, one of the wait, Stargate, Stargate. Oh yeah.

I know Joe. Well, you know, Joe. Well, I know Joe. Well, Joe and I get Joe in here.

He, he went on my show. You might, you might ask, we could ask him. I know him. So, I mean, Joe and I did um two investigations together one was we went to Cape Girardeau Missouri with uh into a target field that we had uh with metal detectors trying to find where the crash site was. And for context for people, Joe was a remote viewer.

Yeah, he was Stargate and Grill Flame. I would say – Grill Flame. Grill Flame, that was the other – What a name. And so the three best remote viewers in the world, to our knowledge, were Pat Price, Ingo Swann, Joe McMonigle. And Pat Price and Ingo Swann are both dead.

Come on, Joe. Let's go. That's right. He's down in Virginia, I think. That's dangerously close. Yeah, he's in Charlotte. I can get him here easily. Yeah.

Him and his wife Scooter. They're he's in Charlotte. I can get him here easily. Yeah. Him and his wife scooter there at the Monroe Institute. So, but he's sort of retired, but we went there and we tried to find where the crash site was, and we weren't successful. We found a few horseshoes and other things in these various

fields, but we weren't able. I'm sure the wreckage was sort of all picked up uh effectively yeah you're going there yeah yeah and then you look for the fire department logs um you could go to the fire department and find the historical logs uh and look through 1941 and so this is how you investigate a crash retrieval but if joe was investigating this with you is he trying i would imagine, I'm using my imagination here,

like he's trying to use his remote viewing skills to re-see some things? We had some targets where we thought they would be and then we went on ground truth and so forth. You know, you're not always successful, but we did work on that. I have his report, I'm sure, someplace.

So this was – and then we actually, speaking of Joe continually, we also investigated another event outside of Death Valley. It was – I can't remember the date but anyway we went there and we searched around with metal detectors and did some psychic work and so there was a few

adventures with Joe you know 10-20 years ago when he was younger and that was fun. That was fun. And he did a lot of, he did a lot of work for me, um, on various targets where I had, well, like in one of the majestic documents, um, in the white hot report, which is on majestic documents.com, there's one whole blacked out page where there's nothing there. And somebody

redacted it all. And I had him do a blind target on... A blind target. Yeah, basically said, here's the blacked out page. What does it say? And he basically wrote what it said. And what did he write? He said that this was about hieroglyphics and alien communications and the investigations of how the government was working to decipher the alien writings inside

craft. So that was a particular target and a particular result. I mean, I don't have any way of proving it. It seems logical and credible. And I feel confident coming from Joe that- Because it's Joe you're saying. Yeah, because it's Joe. Remote viewers- No, no, no. Here's the other thing though. I got to ask this. It's the same thing when Lou was sitting there. I got to ask him too, because he comes from the government. Joe comes from the government. Are they out here playing a joke on all of us to get us running in the wrong direction

you know saying that in this case joe's like oh yeah hieroglyphics aliens pyramids the whole bit's there you know what i mean like i'm not saying the guy is not credible as a as a remote viewer he may very well be it's a very strange subject matter i'd love to talk with him but do you ever worry about you know him maybe not doing the lord's work and maybe doing daddy government's work uh no not i haven't from my personal interactions with him it's he's always been a straight shooter has he done government work for the government uh yeah and um but i think it's pretty much um he's a vietnam veteran he's sort of like um they're built different they're sort of like fuck you uh and uh i you know i don't think he's manipulatable there um and so he he's done a variety of projects for me that have been

impressive stunningly impressive at times and i've used other remote viewers for various tasks like um uh ed dames uh name you've probably never heard of he's probably gone away and sort of a – he was also part of the Stargate program. Paul Smith has done Skip Atwater. I mean just name people that have been in the program before. So there's a variety of remote viewers that are talented. But my conclusion on psychics – Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, my conclusion with psychics is that you really need to hire and find the very best people to work with because it's a signal-to-noise problem.

And if you don't get good signal, you're going to get a lot of noise. Yeah, I get – I'll fully admit. I get really skeptical of stuff like this. Now, I – listen, when Joe went and talked with Sean and like you look at that guy's career, it makes you think twice because this isn't like the old lady on main street in a in a you know wearing it wearing a gypsy cap or something yeah you know so you do wonder about it but also how when you look at like stargate allegedly being disbanded and i want to say like oh three but fact check me in the comments people it was allegedly like two decades ago they said like oh it's gone do you really think that if the government had that they'd actually get rid of it i feel like if they did in fact have it and they might have you know and this was like a real thing and these guys like pat price and joe could really do this they got it it's it's like oh we'll never

do that again of course they're fucking doing it. Yeah, I agree totally. Yeah. I mean, you would never throw away an intelligence tool like that. Right. Now, it's just one of many sources that a CIA analyst would use. He'd use overhead. He'd use human int, and he'd use all the tools, and there's the psychic input too. Um, so on intractable problems, uh, it's very,

uh, useful, you know, uh, crash retrievals are one of the toughest things. I mean, the government and the MJ 12 and though the control group, Oh,

this is one of our primary missions is he crashes at Lance. I don't care what country it's in. We see it come in we're in there as fast as possible recovering the stuff and until you show up with uh you know a few tanks and armed guards saying it's it's it's bolivia's uh you know good luck with that right uh or actually one of the cases in uh in mexico the federales were there, but it was, the story goes that the Navy SEALs or the Special Forces just killed him. Just killed him. Just killed him.

Yeah. Not even the cartels got there first. You know, just, this is some of the work from Noe Torres and Ruben Ollarte in their book. Yeah. Can you explain this one? I need to know more. Yeah. I think it's the Comey case. I have to look at the book to see the actual date.

But it was a crash in Mexico. The Federales get there and are transporting it away. And the U.S. government team shows up and wants it and basically takes it. And they kill the people. So it's sort of blue on blue or blue on, you know. They killed them. They killed them and took the stuff. Not Chihuahua, Mexico.

No, I think it's. It wouldn't be it. I'm looking through your table of contents here. Yeah, it's. Well, we can find it. But the SEALs came in. Well, I don't know if it was SEALs or Special Forces or somebody. And we whacked them.

Yeah, whacked them. That's the report from other researchers, not me per se. I mean, I think Ruben Uriarte and Noe Torres wrote a whole book on this particular Mexican Roswell, the Mexican Roswell. It was a History Channel special. Yeah, Chihuahua. That's what it is. It's the history channel special um that actually i was i was in you probably still find it can we pull that up

chihuahua i have it over here let's see but that's not on the screen chihuahua mexico ufo let's see what what wikipedia tries to tell us this one is again i'll let you i'll let you respond but that that would be kind of wild to me i guess I wouldn't put it past us to go in there. Type in, yeah, go to UFO sightings in Mexico, the third one. Let's do that. Okay, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1974, right?

Yeah, there you go. So according to ufologists, local residents reported a mid-air collision between a UFO and a small airplane near the town of Coyame. Yeah. On August 25th, 1974, followed by a military investigation cover-up. However, historians say that such UFO reports were likely prompted by the 1974 crash and military recovery of a Cessna aircraft

involved in drug trafficking. Don't you love it when the cartels get in the middle of UFOs? That's right. Well, that's a good cover story to me. Yeah, it's a great... Listen, my buddy Paul Rosalie lives in the Amazon amazon and there's a lot of these uncontacted tribes there and so you know he was trying to freak me out about all that when i was down there with him but one of the things he was explaining to me is that you know like when you see planes

fly over where they are smack in the middle of the amazon like just over the canopy he's like obviously those aren't commercial jets. These are what we call narco traffickers. And the fucking uncontacted tribes look at them and they think they're boxes in the sky sent by God. Oh, wow. And I'm like, ah, so to them it's a UFO. So I see a little tie here.

Yeah. So anyway, that's one example of deaths associated with ufology or crash retrievals. I dedicate the book to those that have lost their lives to UFO secrecy. And there's the Sandia Engineering District technicians in 47 that went out to Roswell to handle the bodies. And several of them died of profuse bleeding in the nose and mouth from handling the bodies. You know, they're going out with their best hazmat suit of that era to pick them up and put them in the sort of caskets, so to speak, and ship them off. And I think that was the first tip off that, oh my goodness, these things are potential biological weapons.

And that continues on. And that's one of the impetus for my dad's book, you know, Alien Viruses, that he did. That was a fun one. Yeah, I mean, if you're talking about a species that's coming from another dimension at the very least, or a different place, of course they have a total different, but I mean, it's common sense. They have a different biology and I mean, biology is the most dangerous thing that exists on this planet. So why wouldn't it be dangerous from somewhere else yeah for sure what was the what was the thing and i want to say it was 1939 senator uh cardell something like that

he in in dc i probably have that a few alien bodies or something like that. They were like alien parts existed in vials of formaldehyde. I think I've heard that story, but I don't have any deeper knowledge than you do about it. Yeah. See, when I hear stuff like that, because then I would think that that guy would have written like a whole memoir on it or something. I mean, he's got to have a lot of information there that these these civilizations could simulate it ahead of time and in english what i mean by that is if you are either one a an extremely advanced extraterrestrial species from far away that far exceeds our abilities here or future humans from way in the future who far exceed our abilities here and have insane seen powers to distort time, whatever it may be.

Couldn't you like simulate not crashing or simulate who – if I'm going to be seen, only these kids in the woods are going to see me and no one else is going to see me. So no one will believe them. Couldn't you do that as your own type of experiment? Because you would hypothetically be so far advanced and perfect, and I'm using my imagination here because I don't know what that would fully consist of, but like you'd be so far ahead and perfect that you don't make mistakes as simple as like what to us would be a plane crash, right? Yeah. I mean, I think certainly, you know, abductions of the mind or real abductions is pretty stealthy and there's no evidence. But people ask, you know, and senators and congressmen ask, well, you know, I'm from Missouri.

Why in the hell would these crash? You know, why? How can they be so advanced as to screw up so badly and land on planet Earth? And so as David Grush has mentioned in his testimony, there's a certain percentage of events that end in mission failure. Even for them. Even for them. That's what I'd ask him.

Yep. And then the other thing is that we value human life, and they may not. And so these very well could be more disposable cyber AI clones or biological clones that are just exploring the galaxy. It's more efficient to do a biological thing than a mechanical thing. Right. Because then there's the potential for, you know, weird natural phenomenon, like a good negative lightning bolt is 10x, a positive lightning bolt, the most common type, and New Mexico desert is notorious for lightning. And so they may not have been prepared for that or maybe overwhelmed their navigation systems

or the testimony of Colonel Corso in his book The Day After Roswell, where he said, you know... EMP? No, turn off the radar. Let me, you know... He had an interaction with an alien and said, you know, please turn off the radar so I can leave. And yeah, that's actually, I mean, I do a better job of explaining it.

Yeah, that sounded wild. Yeah. That was real casual. He had an interaction with an alien and said, please, you know, turn off the radio. Right. So in his book, The Day After Roswell, he highlights an interaction that he had. It was he had his radar

operating and I think he was in a mine or a cave and an alien appeared and he said, friend or foe? And a typical military guy and uh and the alien said neither

and um and and uh and then he asked well you know what's in it for me or something like that and he said a better world if you can tell he said the alien said can you turn off the radar so I can leave? And he said, well, what's in it for me? And the alien responded, a better world if you can take it. Words to those effect. I don't think I got the quote exactly right, but it's in his book. It's speaking the language. Yeah. And so, I mean, I don't know if he mentally heard it in his mind or actually verbally, waves or so forth.

But that's in the book The Day After Roswell. But, you know, Cornel Corso is very interesting as being, hey, firsthand witness, army, reverse engineering. You can find his documents in the National Archives. You know, his claim was that we were reverse engineering integrated circuits and fiber optics and integrated – night vision goggles was the other claim. But there's many other technologies that allegedly have been reverse engineering. Yeah. How put off speculates it was EMP. And if I get him in here somehow, I'd love to get him to really expand upon that but he's like yeah they're you know we we were

fucking around with the mp or something and something in the physics of like yeah their anti-gravity craft couldn't handle that and no it's very credible a theory you know be it radar or emp or what you know electromagnetic radiation and weird i mean if you were to take a radar from 1947 and do a spectral analysis of it it would be extremely different than what's on the f-16 yeah uh that's operating today for sure yeah so it may be something to do i mean it was an analog thing back then it's a digital thing now so So it's, this is a different thing. So that, that was the little sidebar on,

uh, on, on why they, why they crashed. So, uh, and then we try to shoot them down with SAMs and for, um,

you know, anti-aircraft fire or deliberate seeding of kindergarten planets is another thing, you know, Hey, we know how this, this thing happens for planet Earth. When they explode a nuke, we have to dump some tech on them

because when we do that, then they focus more on education, they try to figure out gravity control, and they work hard, they can't succeed, and they advance their technological curve, and they eventually uplift their society into a more stable environment that allows them to join the galactic kindergarten you know i i mean you're speculating so that's the scenario yeah it sounds it sounds interesting yeah because like hypothetically if we don't know if all this technology is hidden by intelligence and the private contractors working with them who are – by extension, therefore intelligence, then we don't know if like they're working on all this and that's why these bombs haven't gone off. We don't know if like in Russia, which obviously has had political changes over time, but like countries likeussia or china are working on that i i guess it would make sense

but you know you you bring up the nuclear point which always comes up and it always has to because it's it's it's pretty heavy like when you think about it if it's if if that's the deal but you know my friend jesse michaels points out that a lot of the he was the guy i was showing you right oh yeah i know jesse yeah on the oh you know him personally uh i've talked to him on the phone a that a lot of the, he was the guy I was showing you, right? Oh yeah. I know Jesse. Yeah. Oh, you know him personally? I've talked to him on the phone a couple of times and traded emails. You got to do some,

you got to do some content with him. Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. I would, I want to, but yeah, I'll, I'll talk to him.

But he, he always mentions, he's like, when you're talking about the military guys on these nuclear bases who witnessed this stuff, these are dudes who have to report if they took an ibuprofen in the morning. So you're talking about like the most sober guys that exist in this country, arguably. And they're the ones who report to see these things. And,

you know, it gets weird when you start talking with Lou Elizondo. I don't know. Have you heard his take on the nukes thing? I remember I watched a little bit of his, your interview with him. Yeah. So he, he does not necessarily think that the, the potential aliens fucking with our nukes is benevolent. He thinks it could be malevolent. And I said, why you know basically what he was getting into is they've been turning them on in addition to turning them off sometimes like they're showing us they go both ways and my retort to that would be isn't that to just kind of show us that like they can they're in control here and that they wanted they want to do this. And therefore, you know, if they really wanted to set one off, I mean, my guys, it's been 80 years. They haven't done it yet.

Like they could do it in a second if they have that power, you know? I agree totally. I mean, I think it's far more of your systems are weak and ineffective. You know, we can turn them on and off. You need to pay more attention. You need to be very careful with these things you don't want to have an inadvertent uh issue and have them blow up or launch one and uh create a problem is i mean when we exploded it in uh what july of 45 um you know i believe that the ets were still cruising around but the whole universe suddenly took notice.

Oh my goodness, this little kindergarten planet just got the nuke and we need to pay more attention to them. They're on a trajectory. It was an inflection point. I mean, this is sort of classic thinking about how the civilization unfolds. Yeah. I used to have in my old studio in my parents' house, I had a picture. I have it out there, but it's not in the studio, where there were two pictures. One was an explosion test at Bikini Atoll. Oh, yeah.

And then the other one below it was a redo of the Sistine Chapel, Adam and God's hand, but the hand of God is actually a robot hand. And the reason I like this dichotomy, because the bottom is what I get concerned about with like AI and things like that, potentially like taking over our being and how we are. That's scary to me. And I think we need to not do that. And the reason I had the Bikini Atoll on the top is because we dropped these two bombs on Japan after getting to this science in 1945. And in the almost 80 years now since then, the world has had all these weapons. And yes, we've tested them in places like Bikini Atoll. These tests happen in some some respects you could say all the time from different countries but no one has ever used it on each other and the idea that in a world

filled with insane egos dictators tyrants people who get into let's call what it is pissing matches with each other and just aren't afraid to you know play score and the score is how many bodies do you does your country lose versus mine the fact that we've never used that feels like some sort of divine intervention now could that just be wherever god is up there just somehow being like yeah listen i know that fucking that putin guy's not great but like he's not going to press the button. Or could it be some intervention from these? It certainly could be. But I'll tell you a story I heard from – well, secondhand from James Irwin, who is an astronaut. And he basically said to me while he was up on the moon, he had a vision given to him of four nukes going off in the Middle East.

And I just, you know, okay's that's sort of his input and and you look at today you know with what's going on with the rain did he have this vision uh oh um i think uh paulo uh 11 12 whatever he was on the moon j Irwin. He was one of the first astronauts. So years ago. Yeah. You know, in the 60s. Yeah. But I think he wasn't – and he told the story to several people,

including my friend Rick Broom, who told me. And I look today, you know, here we are in October 2nd of 2024, and the Middle East could easily go a couple nukes. And I think that might be the, you know, I hope it doesn't happen, but I think that it's probably going to take one or two nukes going off and in hostility again to remind the earth that we need to get rid of them you you think that you think i just think it's a scenario that's uh they're they're planning for um and the question is what what would happen what what scares me is the guys like the – let's put a time period on it too, but let's – we'll expand that.

The guys like the Curtis LeMay's of the world, okay, back then, they believed in the 240 to 60 theory. That's definitely not what they called it, but I'm just using what were alleged to be their quotes behind the scenes, which is that, well, if Russia hit us, we'd lose 60, but we'd hit them and they'd lose 240. We win by 180. Right. And so, yeah, we look at that during an era of people where, you know, they probably blew off a president's head, but who's to say it, it doesn't take more than a few people thinking like that, right? There can, there can be thousands of great people in the government, and I have no doubt that there are. And then you just have a few people in positions of power who just fucking suck and have that thought, right? And then suddenly, to your point, maybe they put that into practice, if you will. I mean, what I thought was interesting was Erwin's comment that it was the Middle East and we're sitting there with Iran.

Okay. I find it impossible to believe that Iran hasn't purchased a suitcase nuke out of the, you know, vast missing stockpile of suitcase nukes from the Russian government. And that, you know, they have a few bombs. And if they were to set one off, there would be a retaliation. And people would go, well, this is not a good idea anymore. Is it sort of, you know, you can see a limited exchange in my mind. You know, not that the U.S. and Russia or other major powers would get involved. But as Robert Salas has often said, there's 20,000 nukes on planet Earth. And if they go off, you better be underground for a few decades. Yeah.

Yeah. It's scary. It few decades. Yeah. Yeah. It's scary. It is scary. It is scary. Well, it's to your point. It's strange times we're living in right now, especially it feels like a lot of the rest of the world is on the brink, which means we're also on the brink because we're a world power. power and by proxy everyone's involved in these different conflicts that are going on and whether it be in ukraine or in the middle east you know it's it's definitely it definitely makes you have to look at the simpler questions about you know us as a collective rather than us as these stories

that we call borders right now with all these countries that that pretend to not be a part of of the of the same human race at the highest level of stuff. And to me, like the highest level of stuff is, oh, don't nuke each other. Right. You know? And it's interesting you sort of philosophize on that. I'll bring it back to the Majestic Documents. one of the only sort of think pieces in the majestic document trove is a memo written by Einstein, Einstein and Oppenheimer.

And it's a four page piece that's on the majestic documents.com website. But it asks the question of our, can you settle on planet Earth? Can the ETs settle on planet Earth? And his response or Einstein's words were to the effect of, if planet Earth is devoid of political unity, they would have the right to colonize, but not on traditional lines. And it goes on for a paragraph or so. But I thought that was interesting in that, you know, here's Einstein being posed with this question of colonization of planet earth by alien species and what to do about it,

how to address it, what to think about it. And that's, uh, uh, I thought it went to go to your, went to your point. Absolutely. And that's, that's the hard part about this conversation. You know, on one end of the spectrum, you can get the guys like Neilil degrasse tyson who say we're not interesting at all and they don't want to study us and sometimes michu kaku who's been on this show will go there now he's obviously a lot more open on some of the other stuff but he'll be like would they really try to study a squirrel with a nut like we would my thought is

maybe because like like sometimes i'll sit there let's use the squirrel example sometimes i'll sit there and there's a million squirrels outside right i don't sit there and watch most of them but one day a squirrel does some weird shit on like the telephone lines and i'm like oh wow you know what i mean so i used to say you don't get an alien once in a while and oh wow look at that well i can guarantee you that I could probably find five squirrel PhDs that specialize in nothing but squirrels. And the gray squirrel, the brown squirrel, all of the squirrels, all squirrels around the world. There's a huge body of literature on squirrels. I suspect that there's probably more literature on squirrels than there is on ufology.

You might be right about that. You know, and so, or other little four-legged creatures. Sure. And so, you know, absolutely, there's got to be an ET race that, you know, specializes in emerging planets like ours. It's just interesting, though, looking at like what we view as, say, of the era, the smartest person like an Einstein speculating on these things and obviously among us like he's so smart. But even his ability to speculate as a human being bound here to earth, having to try to put himself in the mindset of that which he doesn't know. It's no different than even trying to speculate what God thinks or something like that. It gets really strange.

It's not to say like I don't want Einstein speculating on it. If anyone's going to do it, I want him doing it. But like we – all of it is purely hypothetical in that way. And surely shallow. Yes. And not as robust as the truth. Sure. So, yeah, I found that the Einstein Oppenheimer memo in July of 47, actually it's June of 47, I think it's written, but is a very interesting read on the Majestic Documents website. I mean, one of the other thoughts that we haven't really gotten into, and I'd love to talk a little about, is the whole notion of what is the giant secret?

What is the government really controlling and hiding? And it is gravity control and uh how do you manipulate gravity and uh this has fascinated me for the past uh nine months and i've been doing lots of research about it and there's very little mentioned in the majestic documents about gravity control other than you you know, there's a description of a neutronic power plant in the Majestic documents in the White Hot Report, but it doesn't really go into, it's more of like how to create electricity or something like that. But there's clues everywhere

about the nature of gravity control in the sightings, not necessarily the crashes, but they're surely in the crashes, but in the sightings where you have these electrostatic wicks where you have a craft and it's got cables hanging down with electrostatic balls on the ends or long sort of sweeping sort of a shark fin like thing. case in of Eddie Laxton in Temple, Oklahoma, where he, this is an Air Force officer going to work, drives around the bend and sees a UFO, sort of a teardropped UFO. Teardropped?? Teardrop, yeah. It's like 75 feet long.

It's more like stretched out, like a stretched teardrop. And actually, my friend Michael Schrat has it in his book. Let's see if I can pull up a picture of it. Like a digital re-rendering of it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Socorro's 62.

Oh, you're talking about Socorro, right? No, no. I'm talking about... I was going to say, I must have missed that. No, you didn't. 66. James Fox talked a lot about Socorro when he was in here episode 138 that one

that one is here we go that's fascinating this is Eddie Laxton so Eddie comes around the corner and sees a man in front of a craft and he gets out of his car

walks over and the man sees him and gets back in his craft and takes off. A man. A man. A man with a cap with English letters writing on it and numbers TL197 are written on the side of the craft and then he hears this low hum going off. And he sees all the various, the landing gear. And this is an Air Force guy who says,

clearly this is a man-made craft that I saw, man-made craft in 1966, and a very credible witness. And this was reported to Project Blue Book, and another witness saw this craft fly away too. But this is just one of many cases that point to man-made UFOs and man-made craft. what's the history here? There's all sorts of newspaper articles in the mid-50s about gravity control. And you see that it's sort of, there's a lot of activity in the 50s, and then it suddenly disappears in the 60s. Conveniently. Conveniently.

And so there's many cases where this long shark-like fin of the ectrostatic wick, or there's other cases in Chula Vista in Northern California where this saucer with all these hooks comes down and all the static electricity, and then the witness sees it fly over and hook on to a high-tension power line and makes it glow red and then zips off and comes back. And it acts in a weird way that is man-made and not ET. You know, ET doesn't need hooks and electrostatic wicks and none of that stuff. So this is the giant secret is I think that in somewhere in the late 50s or early 60s that we figured out the equations for gravity control. Yeah. See say we i need to i need to also possibly define that and stick on my little tinfoil hat right here back by the good old foyer request

of the government that been released over the years but you talk about in specifically like when we look at the 50s being where we figured it out, a very interesting event happened in the 40s, which you know about, which was obviously World War II. And specifically, there was another very interesting event right after World War II called Operation Paperclip where we took all these Nazis and we brought them over to America, stuck them in Huntsville and some other places and said, show us rockets and show us everything you got. And I do wonder sometimes, and this is like in the back of my head a question it's like obviously most of these guys were just some of the worst war criminals ever and and drank the kool-aid and believed in like these psycho nazi beliefs or whatever but i do wonder sometimes if the scientists as maybe as the war was waning on had just enough humanity and and that is giving them the minimum amount of credit possible to say you know if they got figured out some crazy things

with physics to say you know maybe this stash motherfucker shouldn't be the one in control of this all right i do wonder that sometimes because you, you can look at it and realize Wernher von Braun was the head engineer at NASA when we went to the moon. A Nazi put us on the moon, you know? And that was very public too. Right. So what's happening privately? Yeah.

Well, I mean, and in the majestic documents, there's many references to Ernest Strunghold and many other paperclip scientists that were involved. But anyway, there are many examples of craft that I think are man-made. And I think one of the things that really draws me in is the comments of Ben Rich. Ben Rich? Ben Rich, who was the head of Lockheed Skunk Works for 15 years, Lockheed Skunk Works. And in his retirement in 1993 at UCLA, where it was his alma mater. He said on stage, we have the technology to take ET home and it won't take a lifetime to do it. He said, we found a mistake in the equations

and figured out how to do it. And when he says found a mistake in the equations, in my mind, the ETs aren't giving you equations. It's human beings that are giving you equations. So then I'm trying to think of, try to understand, you know, what was the trajectory of the science going on? And it was Lockheed, well, it was the Glenn L. Martin Company in the late 50s that before it became Martin Marietta, which later became Lockheed Martin. Right. So the Glenn L. Martin Company in 1950 started a group called the RIAS Group, Research Institute of Advanced Studies, I believe. And that's on Wikipedia. And it was headed up by this guy, George Trimble, who is the arch villain in Nick Cook's book, The Hunt for Zero Point.

I don't know if you ever interviewed Nick Cook. You ought to interview him sometime. Jesse Michaels just interviewed him in a recent podcast over in the UK, I think. I'm going to have to check that out. I'm not familiar with that. and his team put together this huge A-lister team of theoretical physicists, theoretical mathematicians and worked for many years on cracking

the code of gravity control from an intellectual point of view from a gravity control design. And I think they succeeded in 1960 plus or minus a year. And I think they succeeded, you know, 1960 plus or minus a year. And that capability at that point, the Glenn L. Martin company in 62 merged with Marietta. And Marietta was doing all sorts of deep underground bases and underground facilities and nukes and things like that of power plants. And so when those two companies merged, that's when I think the secret government spawned. That's the point at which the gravity control secret was figured out and went rogue

or went proprietary or went offline. Yeah. And it gets gray area too. Oh, yeah. It's all speculation on my part. But the evidence so far points that they have this incredible scientific brain trust that figures out gravity control equations. And once you have the equations, you can start to implement it and build technologies. Well, this was another thing that Lou talks about that has me thinking and wondering about how deep this goes. He gets into the fact that these companies, these private companies, meaning like they're not with the government, were given these contracts decades ago for UFO crash retrievals. Just like how the government gives out defense contracts

to companies like Lockheed Martin to help with weapons of war, they'd give out contracts for a company like Lockheed Martin to help with weapons of war. They'd give out contracts for a company like Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grumman to go in and basically be the men in black, if you will, when shit goes down and bring back the craft and be in charge of it. weird when you then consider that they therefore these private companies have been given custody in this top secret program of these alleged alien crafts or not of this earth craft whatever you want to say to the point that they can come to the government and be like you're not read in on that so who it's it's like it's it's like it's like the clowns are in charge the prisoners are in charge of the asylum now right and who's really running the world? Is it the 1,500 people that have these top secret R clearances instead of – I mean Q, R? So I think that the secret management is outside of government control.

If the president asks, they ask, well, why do you want to know, sir? And he says, well, I think there's a threat to national security. And the response is, we've investigated. The fuck there is. Yeah, we've investigated. There's no threat. You're not entitled to know. And even in one of the majestic documents, they say on the change control page that not only do you have to have an authorized executive order

from the president, but you need approval of majestic security and intelligence command to declassify stuff. So I think it's a combination of both. There's probably classified law that says, you know, the president can ask for stuff, but until it gets approved through these other channels that you can't know about it. And so the president is somewhat in the dark about what's going on. Yeah. You used a term earlier that's been used on multiple podcasts I've recorded recently. And it was nice to hear you, you say it where you talked about the compartmentalization of government. Yes. And it's such a great point because you can, I'm just going to use some names right now,

not literally, but like as a figurativeative here you could have on one team within the government a how put off and jacques valet who are both geniuses and know a lot about the physics of this stuff and maybe have been read in on some crazy shit over the years and then you could have another team of insanely great physicists a and insanely great physicists b and they're working on something entirely different and the two they know exist, but they don't know that they're working on these respective programs for the government. And one is a total, you know, moated area of research, and the other one's a total moated area of research. And then things don't get shared. But there's some sort of, not to be sinister about it but like

just for the imagery here there's some sort of puppet master above them and it's a very small group or a person who is like charged with being the only person to know that these two things exist but he's another cog that knows these two things exist. And there's someone else over here who knows only, you see what I'm saying? Absolutely. It's like a continuous exponential curve of secrecy. And that's how they do it. I agree totally. You know, there's skiffs and then there's other types of skiffs.

Other types of skiffs? Well, I mean, like one of your other guests highlighted that was a special type of skiff within a skiff. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And one of my friends at Air Force Office of Special Investigation said that there was something called CIA Level 7, which is apparently where the alien discussions happen. I don't know. I'm just repeating what he told me. But he wrote it in his book called Meridian, which is fiction, but it's a very fun book that involves aliens

and an interesting story. But there's all sorts of levels of classification. And I think that the classifications for the intelligence community are different than the Atomic Energy Commission. If you have a top-secret SCI clearance, that's a different animal than if you have an Atomic Energy Commission Q clearance or R clearance. And so those are different worlds and they may not mix where they might. What did your dad or even Stan Freeman have to say, theorize either based on speculation or on even some intel maybe they had received on which companies or yeah like which companies were involved with the crash retrievals and what they may or may not be working on that's a really broad

question yeah um well i think it's the usual suspects i mean if you're saying who has the gravity control secret today worked on it i I would say the Aerospace Corporation, nonprofit in Pasadena. I would say the Carlyle Group, which owns EG&G, which runs a lot of operations out to Area 51. You would think of Northrop Grumman with their efforts. You'd think certainly of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works or some spinoff of that organization, uh, the Raytheon potentially there's, there's class classified, um, pockets everywhere that may be working on different parts of the reverse engineering situation. But, you know, knowing what the saucer skin does, ah, I don't really care. I mean, the saucer skin, the saucer skin does, I don't really care. The saucer skin?

The saucer skin. I mean, I don't really care. The subtle aspects of a particular crash saucer are sort of ancillary in my mind. The jewel, the crown jewel is propulsion. It's the gravity control. That's the thing that is the holy grail, the secret that they're guarding endlessly. And that's the thing that's been figured out in my mind. And that they're protecting and hiding. And there's a very limited number of people that know what that is and how that works.

And so that's sort of my perspective on the technology situation for crashed hardware and UFO parts. What did you think of, I mean, you mentioned him earlier, but when Dave Grush came out out and went public with this which does then involve a form of retrieval we'll get to that it was the magenta case and everything but when he comes out and says i mean i guess just for context right now comes out and says something like you know this case in 1933 was in magenta italy and it involved a crash UFO, Magenta's just outside of Milan. And at the time you had fascist leader Benito Mussolini in charge of the country. He sends in a renowned scientist. Marconi, I think. Yeah, Marconi and some other people and they get this out of there. Allegedly,

Benito thought that this could have been some sort of crazy weapon emanating from Germany or England or one of the countries, but they store it somewhere. I want to say in Lombardy, but fact check me in the comments on that. And wherever it was stored, it was somewhere else in Italy. And when the United States later invaded Italy with the Allied forces in the 40s, somehow they were able to, as they took control of the country, get possession of this craft and take it back, which is what David Grush said, you know, with some of the evidence he had access to. You've covered the Magenta case long before David Grush came out publicly. Actually, it wasn't in my first book. I mean, it was Grush's testimony that made me sort of pull that one out. And I think there were some Italian researchers that did a lot of work around that case. What I find interesting about it is that if it really happened in 1933, and I'm sure it did, that no doubt it went to Nazi Germany.

Italy and Germany were aligned as axes in the war. And so I suspect that Hitler and his team of scientists were all over it trying to figure out how it worked or where it worked. And the Allies may have recovered it worked or where it worked. And the Allies may have recovered it from Germany rather than Italy, per se. But I'm just sort of speculating. I don't have any data. And then there's all sorts of comments or beliefs that the Germans, the Nazi bell and so forth, had some sort of gravity control and had craft.

I have a lot of reserved judgment about that. I don't. I'm pretty skeptical that Nazi Germany had flying saucers and, you know, went to Antarctica and all that. Yeah. I want more evidence. and went to Antarctica and all that. I want more evidence. That's definitely in my neutral basket. So, I mean, the 33 thing was great,

and I applaud Grush for kicking me in the pants, so to speak, by showing up in front of Congress and saying, hey, we have crash retrievals. And I was like 18 years ahead of time. I was saying, yeah, we have crash retrievals. And I was like 18 years ahead of time. I was saying crash retrievals, crash retrievals. And before me was Leonard Stringfield. Oh, yeah. Leonard Stringfield did a lot of, you know,

aka Webster. He was an Air Force guy too, right? He was an Air Force guy with photographic memory, had all these great connections um i i think some uh disinformation was probably fed to him uh but he did a great job of uh investigating and collating all sorts of material and information about uh crashed ufos and and i i leveraged his work all his work is in my book as well. Yeah. I mean,

this various cases and, uh, didn't he have like a experience himself? I don't remember. Yeah. I, I, I can't remember the details of that either,

but it was, it's fascinating that like a guy who was then that prolific in the space came from the air force where. Yeah. This shit happens. He was an intelligence guy. And he was very skilled at it. I talked to his wife once on the phone.

And he allegedly has all these files, primary source files, that have sort of disappeared. So that's been part of of the uh the challenge of of his material although many of his secretarial office files are all at uh mufon headquarters the mutual ufo network and michael schratt has gone through them he he wrote did this great book, Dark Files, where it has pictorial discussions of all sorts of various cases, from Lonnie Zamora to other crash events as well as sightings of man-made craft. So that's the – there's lots of great investigators that are doing good work right now, pushing the needle forward. Do you, when you look at some of that World War II stuff and what Hitler may have been studying, do you think any of that is tied to those Foo Fighters? Oh, Foo Fighters?

No, I don't think so. I think the Foo Fighters were the real phenomenon that people were observing. But I'm just sort of, that's my perspective at this juncture. If I had good data one way or the other, it'd be interesting. Yeah, that one fascinates me. Because they were seen by so many pilots, allegedly. Well, I mean, there's lights in the sky. I mean, there's the flying triangles in belgium in 89 and there's uh all sorts of great cases everywhere um for but you know did the nazis uh succeed in in gravity control i just don't know did they succeed i mean were they the best brain trust on planet earth at the time you bet

did they paperclip was absolutely gigantic and huge for our progress as a country. Yeah, it's crazy. And, you know, there's an interesting guy by the name of Todd Ritter at toddritter.org. He speaks fluent German, but he investigates science and technology for basically German science and technology, and particularly historically one. He'd be a fun podcaster. He's done some good podcasts himself all about Nazi technology. That does sound fun.

Yeah, it does. And, you know, he basically found some documents that said, no, no, you know, superconductivity was not discovered by a couple of guys that are on Wikipedia in the 80s. He's got German documents that basically show that they describe superconductivity back in the 40s. That's fucking scary. Exactly. conductivity back in the 40s that's fucking scary exactly so he has some tremendous um uh but you know he's a primary source historian he has a 5 000 page um uh treatise on german technology pdf on the web and he just does a lot uh toddwriter.org or a writer institute something to that effect yeah check that guy yeah he's he's and he lives up in um

i think i want to say like massachusetts okay dangerously close dangerously close right yeah Exactly. So he's a very interesting source. Have you looked at or talked with people who might be in the know around anything that they're doing at DARPA and how that may relate to reverse engineering that would tie into some of these companies we talked about like Lockheed and Northrop and things like that? Well, the one recent thing that came up in my gravity control investigation was a guy by the name of Brandenburg, Dr. Brandenburg, who got a $200,000 DARPA contract for gravity control. He was tasked with just doing a theoretical paper and report, no experiments, but he had also... For 200 grand? 200 grand. I'll write a paper. Yeah. I'll do it. Well, I mean, I don't know what it involved or what the scope of the contract was, but he also claimed to have done some experiments before showing a 7% reduction in gravity in his experiments. But at the same time, that's the size of a desk that can lift two or three thousand kilograms. And so you need something that's substantial. You know,

there's also these NASA guys that are doing electrostatics or various manipulations of gravity that are all in the margin. It's like, oh, I got like a tenth of 1% lift or something small. Or the work of Podiklinov and Ning Li at Huntsville, Alabama. Tim Ventura and his work work um with the apex group um he might be a fun podcast uh the apex group yeah apex if you type in apex uh advanced yeah propulsion. But Tim Ventura runs a whole organization, a hundred people or so, that is focused loosely knit on gravity control and propulsion.

Yeah. That's it right there. Yeah. Yeah. So they do a variety of work on various scientists that are focused on gravity analysis and gravity work. And that's something that you could explore and look at. Got it. Yeah, I'm going to have to check that out. I've never heard of that. Yeah. He's really good. He's a former venture capitalist, physicist. He'd be a great interview. Okay. I'll have to look into him.

A lot of these – I mean pretty much all the cases we've talked about today and a lot of the cases you cover in your book are land-based, right? So it's where they crash somewhere or are seen very clearly somewhere over land but there's also this whole discussion about what's going on with potential transmedium ufos ones that operate in air and in water obviously we've we've that even came in when you talk about like the 2004 tapes like oh where'd those tic-tacs come from they come from the sea maybe but have you is there evidence of like any weird ufo i don't know crashes or something or malfunctions that occur like on the water um i think the um not predominantly i think the murray island case was uh's a, I think there's one case in the book where it's a craft that goes into the water that they recover. As well as there's another case Shag Harbor Nova Scotia where the craft goes into the water and they recover it from the water

so these are this is a lake rather than I mean the undersea underwater I heard a story of the Howard Hughes' Globe Explorer being also used to recover crashed UFOs.

I think that Dolan may put that in his book when he comes out with that. So it's not – most of them are land-based. And I over-selected really for U. selected really for uh us and uk and a little bit in europe i don't have good visibility into russia or china or africa uh so there's 104 if i was to really guess as to how many crashes there have been on the planet i would probably go up into the 200s range yeah just uh just based on statistics, it seems to be a total global phenomenon. I think there's one in Australia as well. Yeah, yeah, 1966.

Yeah. So there's a lot that's out there. But again, okay, so we got crashed hardware. The river's engineering it. Now what? How are we going to change the planet? How are we going to really advance the cause? Again, okay, so we got crashed hardware. The river's engineering it. Now what? How are we going to change the planet? How are we going to really advance the cause?

I mean – Yeah, you want to do something good with it. Yeah. I mean I close my talks typically with – so now what? How can we make a difference? How can you show leadership and advance the cause? What can your readers and audience do to advance the hope of planet Earth and or the nature of ufology or whatever their passion is. And to think about that, be it acting or funding or investigating crashes, there's plenty of crashes to investigate all over the world. So that's the challenge is how do you channel all these desperate,

you know, disparate, excuse me, organizations around the world from MUFON or QFOS or the Solo Group or all the podcasters or everybody trying to advance the cause and do things forward. How do you get a more organized, cohesive, strategic plan put together to execute against the government, which is a highly funded, militarized, top-down organization that's highly effective at what they're doing. And you're going to need to have stunning leadership and a lot of money to be able to push the needle and pull the secret out. And the secret is really

either fusion, gravity control, or somehow tapping the zero point energy to give me unlimited electricity in a box. What's the government's incentive to tell us about that information though? Well, that's a great question. And it's one of the ones I posed in the AI Ufologist. And the answer is none. I mean, very little. You know, they want to keep it secret. They don't want to disrupt the apple cart. There's a lot of change that would happen if you had these technologies come out and come forward. And, you know, just take one example, for example, if you start eliminating hydrocarbon usage, because you can, you know, cars have electric motors in them now. If you just have free electricity,

you can now change the whole transportation structure or airplanes, you can start using their gravity control or if you have a fusion reactor and electricity you can now fly without petrochemicals so if suddenly the value of all middle east oil goes down by 80 percent in a decade, let's say, that changes the geopolitical environment, it changes society, it changes technology, it advances the cause. All these things are, I think, inevitable. It's just a question of timeline and how it gets launched on the world well and and that's that's the other problem it's like i want to know right you want to know and fucking everyone out there listening wants to know if there's a there there and and what that is but you know if these governments and i won't

just put our own in this i'll put other powerful governments around the world maybe on a topic like this it's possible or working in concert in some ways even if you know diplomatically their enemies you know if if they really did know the truth the the men in black truth if you will and they could simulate how this would affect society on mass scale if they release this to people and that simulation showed it was going to be the fucking purge out here then in that way i don't want to do it then and but that's the thing and this isn't to like be a bootlicker but like that's where i go damn i guess they'd be right to not release it then you know and it makes it so confusing yeah i think every year they make a list

of uh do we disclose do we not disclose. And the list for not disclosing is always a little longer. And what we've seen over the past few decades is titration and minimal disclosure. I mean, the Hollywood trajectory has changed and far more movies and better response to ETs. I mean, the messages from the ETs tend to be, you know, clean up your environment, get rid of your nukes, and have more compassion for your fellow man. So there's messages that are coming through, and that's the trajectory of information from them.

And disclosing is going to be a slow process. If we leave it to them, they will, I mean, you could think of Russia as almost a trial balloon. You know, what happens if we give Congress a little nibble at the truth? Okay, they did one hearing. Well, they didn't do anything else. Did they write any good laws? No, not yet, maybe. Maybe Dan Eshian.

Dan Eshian, I think, is working on a new law. Yes, he is. So there's progress being made, and they're trying to bring society along slowly and inching forward. But, you know, it's only if we drag it kicking and screaming out of them. I mean, I can't believe that, you know, China is not sitting there stupidly. They are working hard on fusion. They are working hard on fusion more than anybody else in the world. Can you explain fusion to people? Fusion, sure.

Nuclear fusion. How you take either lithium and protons and make antineutronic fusion or deuterium and tritium. It's a method of making electricity that's different. It's not a light water nuclear reactor like Three Mile Island or Diablo Canyon or Chernobyl. It's a different way of doing fusion. So fusion is one path forward. So I lost my train of thought there. You were talking about how China is working. China, yes, China.

So the biggest effort on fusion in the world right now is China by a factor of about 3x. Then comes the United Kingdom. And then comes America. And then comes Europe and Japan. What's this third place bullshit? Well, that's right. I don't like this. Well, exactly.

The UK has put billions of dollars in investment in fusion efforts and trying to do that. Fundamentally, traditional hot fusion is doomed because it's not doomed, but it's still $50 a megawatt hour, which is basically the same price of electricity as it is today. can't really help Africa or help the rest of the world come out of this resource deprivation in food, in water, in resources, and basically uplift the majority of the population. But China is pushing hard on gravity control. I mean, I'm sure they are. And they may figure it out ahead of time or get caught up. And pretty soon it's going to be, you know, Xi Jinping could decide to disclose the truth about UFOs. He could. He could. He could.

Yeah, I don't know. You know, this goes to this nefarious or weird mode where, well, it's just some sort of cooperation, global cooperation amongst things that some Israeli officers have said exists. The Israeli officers have Yeah, I think there was a general, what did I say? I can't remember his name. Can we Google this? Israeli officers, global UFO? Yeah, disclosure. Team? Team, yeah.

Hamad, E-M-I emid or something like that it's in my new book uh ufos who knows former israeli space security chief uh yeah okay yeah yeah all right let's click this from mbc news former israeli space security chief says extraterrestrials exist and trump knows about it a galactic federation there you go. Has been waiting for humans to reach a stage where we will understand what space and spaceships are, Haim Eshed said. A former Israeli space security chief has sent eyebrows shooting heavenward by saying that earthlings have been in contact with extraterrestrials from a, quote, galactic federation, unquote.

Quote, the unidentified flying objects have asked not to publish that they are here. Humanity is not ready yet. Haim Eshed, a former head of Israel's Defense Ministry Space Directorate, told Israel's Yediot Aranat, sorry if I fucked that up, newspaper, the interview in Hebrew ran on Friday and gained traction after parts were published in English by the Jerusalem Post on Tuesday. A respected professor and retired general, Eshed said the aliens were equally curious about humanity and were seeking to understand, quote, the fabric of the universe. Let's scroll down, unquote.

I'm going to keep reading this a little bit, a little more. Eshed said cooperation agreements have been signed between species, holy shit, including an underground base in the depths of Mars where there are american astronauts and alien representatives how much weed did this guy smoke there's an there's an agreement between the u.s government and the aliens they signed a contract with us to do experiments here he said a shed added that president donald trump was aware of the extraterrestrial's existence

and had been on the verge of revealing and had been on the verge of revealing information but was asked not to in order to prevent mass hysteria. What is this mass hysteria? They've been waiting until today for humanity to develop and reach a stage where we will understand in general what space and spaceships are, Eshed said, referring to the Galactic Federation. The White House and Israeli officials did not immediately respond to NBC News' request for request for comment sue go a spokesperson for the pentagon declined to comment yeah now that's yeah there you go i mean my man was just spitting yeah so that uh uh i think that's basically all correct you think so you think that American astronauts

are with aliens on a base on Mars where Elon claims we can't get yet I think there's this is one piece of evidence to support that theory and if you take the other piece of evidence that there's gravity control we certainly can get there

easily and we could do that. And the fact that it's, you know, this is a high ranking military officer in the Israeli force and then other evidence associated with treaties and the Eisenhower. I think, Eisenhower, where he talks about this treaty and the evidence for this treaty that was executed. The 52 thing? Yeah. Yeah.

And so that sort of sums it up in my mind. You know, we realistically, there's a credible possibility that we have gravity control craft we have a base on mars and that this military officer and many others have the same thing has anyone corroborated what he said there those are some big ass claims right there well that's a great question i have not investigated it uh but certainly pieces of it are supported by other evidence you know you know i was talking about gravity control and and craft you know so if you can if you got gravity control you can certainly go to mars and you know there's uh um you know

they haven't read Elon on the secret. Allegedly. I mean, look. Is that a cover story? I mean, if Von Braun knew about gravity control, would he have done the entire Saturn V moon program? It was just like this giant. It was on this trajectory and just went. I, you know, it just floors me that it was all that waste of treasure and resources

and man and life uh for something that was just a cover story bullshit yeah i mean i i wonder i wonder if some of these some of these guys if they knew if they would even be able to talk about it like like i mean like emotionally because it's so heavy i mean it look science and religion have always been paired off against each other throughout history but they're both seeking the same thing they're both seeking seeking a full understanding of the physical reality around us and what makes that right so to me it's like a great tragedy that like you know they've been convinced to to be a part throughout history but you know a guy like you who looks at all this stuff and has done so for decades and decades

your dad did as well like what do you think like do you believe that there's a god above all this or yeah that's a great uh yeah we're all God's children is sort of my attitude is, yeah. So I'm generally – I don't go to church. I'm sort of an atheist, but I certainly believe there's a God. I might say that – So you're agnostic. Yeah, I'd say for the most part. I mean, you could go into Jesus and Muhammad and all these people are basically alien clones designed to... And I'd say that's a credible theory.

There was something in the water out there. Something in the water. No pun intended. But you bring up an interesting point of how religions think about this. And in my final effort, or not final effort, but recent effort. I was going to say, you're on your way out? No, no. Got something you want to say? Yeah. My recent effort is on improving the credibility of ufology. And in doing that, I tried to create a new book called UFOs Who Knows, which is, this is an old preprint, but it's on the web. It's on Amazon. You can bring it up, UFOs Who

Knows. It's a book of famous quotes, including the one we just saw from this Rayleigh. I see a lot of faces. I see Tom Cruise i see carl sagan i see j edgar hoover i see ronald reagan is that paul no it's not paul voker yeah jimmy cart i mean yeah who's who on here right well the thing that we did uh we i did it with anthony de lorenzo, we added 10 or 12 different religious leaders and their perspective on ufology and religious scholars from multiple religions. And that was to your earlier point about religion and God. But I chose this book, UFOs, Who Knows, as a way to give many people access to ufology in a new way. So if you believe in religious scholars or religious leaders,

you can read the quotes about that. You can look at scientists and engineers. You can look at that. You can look at scientists and engineers, you can look at presidents, you can look at astronauts, you can look at congressmen and generals. So a lot of celebrities have said a lot of, you know, I've been abducted by aliens or yeah, I saw one, Demi Lovato's comments. So there's all these different 185 quotes from various people all about, you know, it's a picture, it's a quotation of what they said. Some of them are very salient and prophetic, and some are less so. But they all have a fair degree of credibility associated with their names. Well, if one of them's actually right and all the others are wrong, it's interesting.

Amen, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I find that that was my attempt to gain more credibility in the field. If you can slide this book across to any skeptic and say, well, what do you think about all these quotes from these various people? You know, I'm reminded of the typical refrain if, you know, I've never met an informed skeptic. And so that's the thing is that people are skeptical well how many

books have you read about ufos and i and and i think it works both ways oh yeah you know it depends on balances each other but yeah listen you obviously you've done a lot of research on this there's a lot of books we're going to put the links down the description to match guys only the ai ufologist and any other work including your website and everything, Ufodex, all that. Ufodex.com. Yeah, Ufodex is really fun in that you can ask any question you want. And AI spits it out. All referenced with my AI or ufological mind implant, so to speak in the AI. So it's not just the general

large language models. It's I've created this, this, uh, ufological implant into its brain, so to speak. Ufological. That's that, that's, that's the chef's kiss right there. Ryan, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for coming out here to do it. And, uh, thanks for sharing all, all the work. Thank you, Julian, to do it. And thanks for sharing all the work you've done. Thank you, Julian, for your work and your efforts all across all the interviews. Just keep at it. I mean, you're making a difference with all your subscribers. And click the like button and subscribe. Thank you so much for that. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also, if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory Podcast or also on my personal page at Julian D. Dory.

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