Julian Dorey Podcast - #271 - ANCIENT EGYPT: 27,000 Year Lost History Explained (PART 1) | Luke Caverns

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Luke Caverns is an Ancient Civilizations Historian, Researcher, and Anthropologist. He specializes in the lost civilizations of Egypt, South America & the Amazon Jungle. PATREON https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey GUEST LINKS - Luke YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lukecaverns - Luke Twitter: https://twitter.com/lukecaverns ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 - Luke Researching Egypt, Mexico, etc. Visiting E*****n’s Mansion, Egypt Trip, Nile River Moves 11:43 - Visiting Egypt w/ YouTube Researchers, Emotional Moments w/ Historical Sites 19:48 - Napoleon Night in the Egyptian Pyramid, Tombs All Lay on West Side of Nile 23:56 - Ancient Roman Historian on Egyptian POV, Beginning of Egyptian History (Rome’s Connection), History of Pharaoh Hat (Unifying Egypt) 34:51 - Dark Mystery Period of Egyptian History, Abu Simbel Temple, Ramses Statue in Luxor 43:44 - Pyramid Age, Dream of Pharaoh (Build Monument), Origins of Bubonic Plague 55:03 - History of Mastaba (Mummification) & Burying Relatives 01:04:05 - Egyptian Mythology, Famous Mummification of 1 Guy Recently, Mastaba Turning into Pyramids 01:20:38 - Tomb Raiders, Stone Work & Debate 01:31:27 - Official 'Chronology’ of the Egyptian Pyramids, Story of Woman Talking to Pharaoh 01:45:21 - Snefru (2D Relief), Pyramid of Meidum 01:58:04 - Most Heretical Book on Ancient Egypt, Graham Hancock (“Fingerprints of the Gods”) & Mistakes 02:14:23 - Academia Issues & Questioning Narrative, Graham Hancock & Flint Dibble Debate 02:31:10 - Great Pyramids & Golden Age of Egypt 02:38:51 - History of Hieroglyphics, Palermo Stone (Scattered Relics) 02:55:08 - Pyramids are ‘Chemical Processing Plants’ Alternative Theories, CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian Dorey - Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 271 - Luke Caverns Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

good aldiana jones back in the building for round technically round three because we did two last time that's true that's true thank you very much for having me back i feel like the last 14 months have just flown by they have and you've been building. I love what you're doing. You are such a good voice in this space, such a true student in the game with what you do. I enjoyed the shit out of the last two podcasts we did last time. And you have traveled like crazy since then. I think you've taken like seven or eight trips around the world, spanning from Egypt all the way across Mexico and South America.

Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I've done five tours to Mexico Guatemala South America and then I spent about 21 days in Egypt and you've been working on we're gonna get to it obviously you've been working on a ton of research on Egypt and writing a really cool paper that was fucking blowing my mind last night but you know for people who haven't checked out your channel, Luke Caverns on YouTube, it's awesome. It's on the come up,

it's going to continue coming up. And, you know, you're like the youngest guy in this space too, which, which is pretty cool. Not for nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's exciting. You know, I know that there's this long road ahead of me and, and, um, there's a lot to get into. I'm, I'm fortunate that I was able to realize my passion maybe about, I don't know, 10 years ago and spent a lot of time studying. And now 10 years later, I'm still one of the younger people in the space, I guess the youngest. And I've just been really lucky along the way and learned a lot. And just really, really in the last year traveling so much, I spent so much time studying at home, but it's the exposure in the field that really changes things

and evolves your understanding. I had studied Egypt, I don't know, since I was a teenager, and more obsessively as time went on. And it died a little bit when I was in at the end, right at the end of college and right after college, because I was spending so much time studying the Americas. And then, you know, I come on your show, we spend some time talking about Egypt and I realized, you know, I need, I really need to seriously dive back into this. And so I spent, you know, an entire year brushing up on everything that I had known and really intensely studying Egypt. And then I capped it off with finally visiting Egypt for about a month. And I you know, an entire year brushing up on everything that I had known and really intensely studying Egypt. And then I capped it off with finally visiting Egypt for about a month and I go back

in another month. Um, so, uh, yeah, just spent some time really learning a lot and I'm really fortunate to be able to do it so early on in life. Yeah. Yeah. And, and like I said, you, you've been here for a couple of days, you're hanging out in Jersey. We're giving you a good old Jersey culture for the week. I know you're into that. Took me on a great tour of the city yesterday. I did. I'm like, I'm the unofficial tour guide around here.

They might call me the deranged tour guide, if you will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to tell people where you went? Well, so Julian decided to take me, because he asked me, have you ever been to the big city? And I was like, you know, it's funny. This is my fourth time here, but I've only ever been on the peripherals of New York City. I've seen it. I've seen the skyline off in the distance, but never actually been in. And we're walking down the staircase and he goes, all right, we're going. So we go walk

into New York City and we have exactly one destination, which was Epstein's mansion. And then we turned right around and came home and had dinner. Well, it wasn't turned right around. And we walked from like 33rd street up to the mansion on 71st. Pretty hollow place, if you will. Right, Alessi? Like hollow, harrowing, something like that. A little bit spooky. Yeah. But people on the street, it blows my mind. They walk right by, they have no idea what it is. Yeah. House of Horrors. But you know, everything around it is beautiful. Central Park, perfect autumn weather with a little bit of Christmas music emanating from deep inside the park. It was just exactly the way the movies made it seem. Yeah. It was a pretty perfect day yesterday. Good day to be in New York, get your first

impression of it. But anyway, so you've been hanging out here and we've had a chance to talk offline about some of this work you've been doing before even talking today, which is pretty cool. But I am pretty blown away with the scope of work you've done on Egypt because like you knew a lot about it last time, of course, like you just explained, it's something that kind of got you into this. You were studying studying this for years but from afar and less with a focus on that your specialty has been south america and mesopotamia and things like that which we are also going to get all into today people we got a lot to do if it takes two episodes we'll do it but you know with egypt it's very clear to me that the the legwork you've put in over the last year put a lot more on the bone. So there were all kinds

of questions I had with some of the things you were explaining, but I wasn't asking them. I wanted to save it for the podcast. So let's start here, if you don't mind. You went there for 21 days recently. What was the goal going there? What things did you specifically want to look into more that you had been researching or anything like that? Well, I came to do it with a couple goals, but more so a very broad goal of being able to see the context of the things that I've studied for so long, to actually see it and feel it and be there in person. It really compartmentalizes your understanding of any ancient culture when you finally go and see it for yourself. Because all these things that you study in a book, you have this vague sort of liquid idea of what it is that you're looking at.

But when you see it in person, it's solid right there in front of you. You can imagine it now. And it really solidifies your understanding. That's front of you. You can imagine it now. And it really solidifies your understanding. That's the best way that I can say it. And so I wanted to go there to finally acquire that for Egypt, to understand what it looks and what it feels like, what the actual size of the monuments are, as well as the distance between places, if that makes sense, and how big some of the ancient cities are, what is still there. You know, all of that is very, very important for continuing to study a culture in the future. You really need to go there. And so my main goal was really just to get a broad overview of Egypt. I mean, this was really just the teaser for many, many more trips going back. You know, of course,

I wanted to see the Great Pyramids like everybody else does. But one of the things that I was really looking forward to was seeing the peripherals of the Great Pyramids and seeing, you know, the spanning necropolis that's around it and all these other buildings that, you know, some of them are uncovered and excavated. Some of them have been halfway unexcavated. Some of them are still covered up from the sands of time. Some of them were uncovered a hundred years ago, but the desert winds have covered them up since then. I really wanted to get a sense of that and see what else was there. And sure enough, there's actually other pyramids on the Giza Plateau that have just been quarried away or they just don't exist anymore. Well, they were all quarried you know the blocks were taken in ancient times to build other monuments they were taken

during the the christian and islamic eras to help build the modern day city of cairo so there were other pyramids on the giza plateau and then i also think uh you know really getting a sense for the the magnificent stone work that's done on some of their, you know, statuary work and some of these monuments, how well they're carved and actually get a sense of that in person. Because you can look at photos, but photos just don't do it justice. You have to see it in person to understand how truly impressive it is. Like yesterday, we were talking about the Valley Temple that sits along the banks of the ancient Nile, which today is just part of Cairo because the Nile moves over time. What do you mean it moves over time?

Well, the Nile creates – I don't know the correct way to explain this. I'm not a geologist, but the Nile, like all rivers, it changes its course over time. It creeps east and creeps back west. And as people build along the banks of the Nile and you change the elevation, you can divert the river. And for a whole host of reasons, rivers can change their course over time. So the course of the ancient Nile used to be further to the west than it is today. And it used to run right up to the Giza Plateau,

like right up to the Nile. I mean, you could, if you were to walk from the ancient Nile up the causeway through the Valley Temple up the causeway to the pyramids, you could do it in five minutes. Nowadays, you can't see, you know, if you're standing at the base of the pyramid, you can't see the Nile. It's over up near the horizon. So the Nile has shifted a lot. But in the Valley Temple, which is one of the most famous places in all of Egypt because of its just impressive and monumental red granite stonework that's done there. Some of the biggest stones in all of Egypt with these strange geometric corners that look like they're placed together, really

similar to some of the stuff that you see in Peru. I mean, shockingly similar. But it's one of the most impressive monuments in Egypt. And when you're in there... What's it called again? The, it is Khafre's Valley Temple. Khafre's, we pulled that up, Alessi. Most people just refer to it as the Valley Temple, but there's lots of valley temples in Egypt. But it's assumed that this is the one you're talking about when you say the Valley Temple, but there's lots of Valley Temples in Egypt. But it's assumed that this is the one you're talking about when you say the Valley Temple. Now, in that Valley Temple, there were approximately 30 different black diorite statues of the pharaoh Khafra. And there's a lot of intrigue there that we'll get to. But to actually see those statues in person, it's really then that you understand how impressive it is, because it's made out of black diorite, which is harder than granite. I mean, it is the only other stone in

all of Egypt that is harder than diorite is a stone called dolerite, which they didn't even make statues out of it. You know, that's kind of the thing if, you know, it's a popular idea that I don't know if people really take it seriously, but, you know, they're saying if they're making statues with ancient lasers, you know, if they were making statues with ancient lasers, they would have been making it out of dole. They would have been making at least one statue out of dolerite, but that doesn't exist. But anyways, it's made out of black diorite, which is extremely, extremely hard. And so you have these 30 some odd Khafre statues all around Egypt, and he's sitting very stoically on this throne. And on the top of his head, you have his nemes headdress, which is just one of the many headdresses and crowns that the Egyptian

pharaoh wore. But on his shoulder is this falcon that is, its back is twisted, and you have the feathers of the falcon, and the falcon is looking at him. And it's just a masterful statue that was carved and erected over two dozen times in the same temple, you know, back before Egypt really kicked off. I mean, this is remote antiquity, remote history. And so to, to just get a sense of that in person, um, and other things similar to that was my goal in Egypt. And you were there with our boy Toldenstone.

I was. Right. Yeah. So, so I spent, um, almost a week there by myself and then, uh, yeah. So I, so I was thinking you know dangerously yeah so i i um i wanted to experience egypt on my own um how was that i loved it it was it was fine you know i spent a lot of time in latin america um latin america is far more dangerous than egypt my personal experience i would would buy that. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, Egypt, I personally felt like I could walk down any row in any alley, any avenue across the entire country and I would have been okay. I didn't, I had no sense of danger in Egypt at all. It's not really the sense that I get in Latin America. You know, in Latin America, I pretty much go where I should be. Being out in the jungle is one thing, but wandering around, you know, a city that I'm visiting on my own, it's not something I would do in Latin America. So I loved it. The people were very nice. And I met up with another YouTuber, Land of Kim. And you and I talked about him before. Yeah, I've talked with him before.

He's, you know, he's got his own very interesting theory over the possible uses of the pyramids. And so he took me around the Giza Plateau for the first time. And that was really amazing. So when I arrived in Egypt, it had been, I don't know, a 28-hour travel day. And my flights from Istanbul just kept on getting delayed. And I finally get to Cairo. My poor driver has been waiting on me for six hours. I finally get in his car. He takes me, you know, across Cairo into Giza. I get to my hotel and I'm exhausted. And the sunrise is going to be in a couple hours and I've got to be at the Giza plateau to meet up with Land of Kim. And so I throw my stuff in my hotel room and then i go up

to the rooftop and there's this little restaurant up on the rooftop and i walk out there and i'm just and i have this hotel that's on the giza plateau you know it's advertised that i can see the pyramids from from the hotel so i walk out there and i'm looking for the pyramids on the on the skyline i don't see the pyramids anywhere and i'm like maybe it's just too dark i can't really and then i stop and look up and the pyramids were the skyline oh yeah it was just this black you know these huge black triangles that were so i was underestimating how big they were going to be they're big and you know something very deep in me came out and i just started like weeping on that rooftop just crying looking at the pyramids

i had finally made it you know um and i didn't you know it was like it was i was i was here in egypt to see the pyramids for a purpose i wasn't just a tourist you know my decisions in life and the in the route that i was going in life had brought me to Egypt to see the pyramids. You know, a lot came out in that moment and it was very therapeutic. And then I feel this tap on my back and it's this young kid who's working as a waiter at like four o'clock in the morning and he has a box of tissues in hand that he hands to me. And he, you know, he must've been like, well, it's pretty normal around here. You know, people tend to have here. With a QR code for the tip? With a QR code to give him a tip.

No, but so I had – it had a profound effect on me. And really it's only one of two profound effects that ancient sites have had on me. I know we're going to talk about South America later. But when I was at Machu Picchu, just, I mean, literally like 10 days before that, which was crazy to me. I think it was also that I had just been in Machu Picchu. I stopped in at home and then all of a sudden I'm in Egypt now. And it's just like, you know, how did this, how did my life take this turn? Your wife's just sitting at home being a dentist and you're going all over the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, sorry, hon, I'll be back. You know, I think that's the way she would prefer it she's a homebody and and i like you know i like this crazy thing that my life has become it's fun just don't bring home an egyptian hooker my friend no don't

you do it so um you know so 10 days before that at machu picchu um i had another a different profound emotional experience um so my grandfather died earlier this year and he was the inspiration for all this. We probably talked about that. We did talk about that the first time you were here. He was the inspiration for all this. And, you know, I was with my grandpa when he died. I was the last person that he spoke to. He had Alzheimer's, but he never forgot a face when somebody was standing right in front of him. And in my last moments, I just recalled some memories that I had with him. And I asked him, do you remember this when I was a kid? Do you

remember reading the story of Troy to me and showing me Machu Picchu in this book, Lost Cities? That was kind of how we bonded. And we watched Westerns and stuff. And I asked him, you know, do you remember all the Westerns that you showed me? Like Gunsmoke. Gunsmoke was on the TV when he died in the hospital room. And he said, yes. And I was like, I looked him in his eyes. I was like, I want you to know, I'm never going to forget that. You know, that was, lay the foundation for who I am. And I said, I love you. And it was the first time I've like looked somebody in their eyes and just, you know, made sure they knew that I loved him. And he said it to me too. And I said, I said, I was like,

I was like, Papa, do you know who you're talking to? And then he nodded. And then, uh, I said, I said, who are you talking to? And he told me my full name to my face. And it was the last thing he ever said to me. I just broke out crying, crying like laying over his bed what's interesting is a week before um the reason he was in the hospital is because he died in his sleep at the moment he died in his sleep i had a dream about him because i woke up from it that i was laying in his hospital bed crying over him kissing him telling him i loved him and i was going to miss him and i saw my last moment with him in a dream the moment he his heart stopped and he was sent to the hospital i had a dream about him next week it actually happens um so um anyways i'm in machu picchu you know a couple months ago and you know the the precipice for me even knowing about machu Picchu was my grandpa. And so I'm standing in front of the megalithic gate at Machu Picchu with the mountain Huayna

Picchu up behind it. And it's just, it's a perfect day to see Machu Picchu for the first time. It's pretty much a flip of a coin. It's either going to be a raining storm while you're there or the sun's going to be shining. And so we got lucky. My very first time seeing it was perfect. And so I pull out my phone to take a photo of it. And sure enough, my Apple mail app is open and I'm sending an email. I never open up Apple mail. I have like 4,000 emails I've never responded to. I'm never going to send anybody an email from my iCloud and it's to my grandpa's email. And I have never sent my grandpa an email at all.

And it was in, in, in the email, his, his email address was selected. And you know, the little thing was blinking as though I was typing and I was looking at it and I was like, of all the things that I could have pocket dialed in my phone, I'm emailing him, you know, you know, it's very strange. And so I had this, you know, it was like a, it was like a touch from some, someplace else, you know, that he could see me. And, uh, so that, that was really cool. And so I think this was sort of, you know, my emotion, my reaction to the pyramids was like, that finally came out of me. Cause I couldn't cry then. Cause I was around a bunch of people, you know? And now you just had a waiter.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it was a little wink from the next place. And my professor, Dr. Barnhart, he's always told me that his professor, Linda Sheely, she's like the late, great Maya archaeologist. Her thoughts about these places was that why people have strong emotional reactions at ancient places. Napoleon, when he went into the Great Pyramid, he saw something, and he never told anybody what happened to him. Saw something? He saw something. Something happened to him. Did he go in alone?

He went in alone. I think maybe he spent a night in the pyramid by himself. Oh, he just chilled in the pyramid. Or he was in there for a little while by himself um because you know he conquered egypt and yeah he spent some time in the pyramid by himself and so he came out and somebody asked him you know he his face looks pale white and somebody asked what what did you see in there and he and uh and he goes he wouldn't believe me if i told you a fucking alien yeah and that's that's something that's nobody ever knew nobody's ever known what Napoleon saw in the pyramid.

But so Linda Shealy would say that so many people have spent so much time at these ancient sites during the time that they were in use since the time that they've fallen into ruin and people come back. People go there for a higher experience. No matter really what that is or what in particular that is people are going there and their soul is trying to reach out to something that's bigger than them and her idea was that it these are these ancient places are places that have thinned the veil between our world and the next and it's easier to access whatever it is that's out there when you're at these ancient places it's easier to feel it it's easier, you know, some kind of emotional response or strange things can happen to you. And it's so common. That was her idea. Um, so I don't know where we got off on this,

but no, you were talking about when you saw him for the first time and they're just like black. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, so, you know, all of that was kind of an emotional reaction. But it was really spectacular. I loved every moment of being in Egypt. I'm really looking forward to getting back. And I feel like my understanding of Egypt just doubled. I've said this before about so many places that I've been. You can study it for years, but once you go there, no matter how much you've studied, your understanding and your perspective

of it will double just because you're there. There's so many things that you can't anticipate that you're going to learn when you actually go there. You know, one of the things that I actually, you know, there's a difference between reading something and then having the realization of it in real life that it actually is real and not just something that's printed in a book. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, when you read books about Egypt and you learn that all the tombs are on the west, you know, they read it like, all the tombs are on the west side of the Nile and, you know, they dot the landscape and this, that, and the other, and you're kind of, you know, you kind

of read that with your eyes glazed over. You don't really understand it. But then when you actually travel 500 or 600 miles along the Nile for three weeks and you realize, wait, okay. And the Nile isn't that big where you lose your perspective. You can always see the other end. I mean, it's just, you could swim across the Nile. So it's very obvious as you spend three weeks there that, oh, every single tomb in Egypt is on the west side of the Nile facing the Nile towards the east. Why is that? And you have this realization that that is something very important and books kind of just gloss over it, but it's not until you're there that you realize how real that is and how notable it is and you kind of dive into that and it expands your understanding and then you know

you're able to lean on your own personal experience and memory of these places as you study in the future and it just kind of you know your understanding just expands and expands and expands and so to answer your question finally i mean mean that was the purpose of my trip to Egypt was to have an expanded, well-rounded understanding of Egypt before I go back and really choose some things to dial in on. Kind of like I was talking to you about my research paper that I've been writing this year. Which we're going to get to. That's a very, very cool topic. I just don't want to go there yet because I want to have more context with all of Egypt and everything. But to go back to the other point, if of you spending time there with Toldenstone.

People haven't seen that. I had Toldenstone in here thanks to you, by the way. Much appreciated for making that connection. For episodes 251 and 252. He is an ancient Rome and an ancient Greek historian god. I mean that dude eats, breathes, and shits this stuff. He got his PhD and all of that. He's been doing it forever, has an amazing YouTube channel now.

But you were there in Egypt with him, which was curious to me because like that's not necessarily what's supposed to be his area of expertise. But seeing as he's a Rome guy and Rome conquered Egypt and had it as a state and basically admired all the history there and put their own bend on it. I guess he was there basically teaching all of that stuff specifically. Is that right? Yeah, so we would – it was a great excuse to go on that tour with him to see two things at once. I was taking a tour of Egypt, which I had already studied, and I kind of understood a broad context of all the places that we visited. But the context that I didn't understand of the place we visited is how the Romans built on top of and tinkered with some of the ancient sites.

I mean, really, many of the ancient sites throughout Egypt. So I got like a Roman history expert's angle on ancient Egypt, which just, you know, here's my view. His view is like this. Added layer. And it was an added layer to Egypt. And so it was just, I don't know, it was a perfect, it just worked out perfectly to be able to go on that trip with him. For people who aren't familiar with the history of ancient Rome vis-a-vis Egypt and everything, can you just explain like when they first came into Egypt and how all that went down? Yeah.

So, okay. So, why don't I back up a little bit further and kind of go through Egypt, I guess. Let's do it. Okay, okay. Let's learn. Come on, professor. So, we can dive into particulars later on, but I'll go – I'll give you like a very broad sweep. All right.

So let's go to the Sahara Desert 10,000 years ago. Keep me on track. 10,000. Keep me on track for getting back to Rome, okay? You're going back 10,000 years. This is going to be a very broad, short history, but we can dive into certain sections if you want to. Let's do it. So Northern Africa, Egypt exists on the Northeastern part of Africa. It is the bridge between Africa and the Near East

or the Middle East. And so 10,000 years ago, the Nile would have been very green. This is kind of why I am very hesitant towards people in this modern day Atlantis hunt, looking for evidence of Atlantis in Egypt, because there were other places in Northern Africa to build a huge civilization. You had multiple great lakes in Africa. I mean, gigantic. I think that the world's biggest lakes were in Africa during this African humid period. And it was just this period where the African continent,

where the Sahara Desert is today, it was a green Sahara. It kind of went back and forth between a drought to a swamp, sort of like this large green lush savanna. And over time around, it's either 8,000 years ago or 8,000 BC, it starts to dry up pretty rapidly, slowly becoming more rapidly. And then by about-

Do we know what caused that? It's outside of my expertise, what causes things like that. But around 4,000 BC, people who were living in this green Sahara or the descendants of the people who once lived in this great green Sahara had two choices to make. They could either go south into where the African savannas are today, or they could go east to live along the Nile, you have these two very narrow strips of tropical oasis land. And the reason that that happens is because every year the Nile overflows its banks. And so it basically inundates the banks. And so what it does is it brings this rich black topsoil and it soaks the desert sand. And from that blooms everything that a civilization needs,

and it blooms in a great, great quantity. That quantity right there gave birth to the Egyptian civilization. That is why Egypt even exists. It just wouldn't really make sense for Egypt to exist 10,000 years ago, because people needed to be pushed to live along the Nile in very close quarters to each other. So you can't build out, you have to build up. So you start building mud brick buildings, right? And civilization starts to rise. It's kind of like New York City. You only have so much space, so you build up eventually. And that forces, it's a funnel that forces productivity. It's either all going to fall apart or it's a funnel that forces productivity. You know, it's either all going to fall apart or it's going to be overwhelmingly successful.

In Egypt's case, it was overwhelmingly successful. And so they start building up. Now, this is 4,000-ish BC. And so you have 4,000 BC to 3,000 BC. And even before 4,000 BC, we can go 4,500, maybe even 5,000 BC. That's kind of this early prehistory, very remote, mystical part of Egypt where the remnants of it are so low under the ground, have been built over so many dozens of times that we can only kind of get glimpses of who these people were. And we'll get to how we get those glimpses through their tombs, because they

would bury their dead off in the desert. That's why tombs are so important in Egypt. They bury their dead off in the desert where they would mostly remain untouched. And we can get glimpses of these people and what they owned because they were buried with some of the things they owned. And it gets more and more obsessive. And that's why tombs become so important. And it's why it was important to the Egyptians. It's why it's important to Egyptologists looking back through time. But let's say about 3500 BC, Egypt is starting to form into two different civilizations. You have Northern Egypt, you have Southern Egypt. And they have two different – they essentially have two different religions at the time with – not entirely different religions, but just different gods that they hold to a higher esteem. And at some point around 3100 BC, a king named Narmer travels up from Southern Egypt to Northern Egypt, and he smites the king of northern Egypt

and pulls both civilizations together. Oh, he smites them. Yeah, that's the word. And so it's this smiting pose that is known throughout Egypt, and all the pharaohs depict themselves this way because of Narmor, because he depicted himself this way. It was on a slate palette that was found in, I think, the city Hierarchopolis, which is not the ancient name of the city. It's the Greek name, Hierarchopolis. And it's a slate palette about this big. I was really excited to see it in person. It's about this big, and essentially it depicts a pharaoh wearing the combined pharaoh's crown. So you have the white crown, which is the crown of Southern Egypt. I'm using Southern and Northern because it's simpler to understand because in

Egypt it's reversed. Upper Egypt is in the South, Lower Egypt is in the North. So I'm going to use North and South instead because it's easier to understand. But he's wearing the Southern white crown and the Southern white crown becomes fused with the Northern red crown. You can probably pull up an example of this. It's pretty cool. But there are these two crowns that fit perfectly together. It's like you can put on both crowns at the same time and they compliment each other. So he's now wearing both of them in this, in, on the Normar palette. And, and he has this scepter in his hand with this,

with a, God, I'm trying to think of the word. It's essentially a mace head on the end of his, a mace head on the end of his scepter. So you have this long scepter, probably made out of a cedar of Lebanon, you know, a very hard piece of wood that, you know, maybe you soak in water a little bit to make it even harder. And then you have a stone, probably a dolerite mace head, which is that hardest stone in Egypt. And essentially you would grab your opposing ruler by his head and you smash his head in, and that's smiting a king. And so that is the iconic pose for all of pharaohs, and it sets a precedence for the rest of ancient Egypt. Now, just stopping for one moment and looking slightly before 3100 BC, there was a lot happening there, but it's very, when we try to look back into it, we have very little understanding of

this time. One of the most miraculous things that they were doing is before the great unification, 3100 BC, like I was telling you, King Narmer smites the king of northern Egypt and unifies it. And unifying the two lands together caused an explosion of productivity and civilization. I mean, that's when Egypt just really begins. But they were very productive and accomplishing a lot before that. And we know that because of the richness of their tombs. So you look back about 3200 BC, you're seeing people being buried with all kinds of hard stone artifacts, which is this vase hype, you know, around these hard stone vases made out of granite and diorite.

Just an incredible testament to the stone masons that existed in ancient Egypt, and something that is never replicated again beyond this point in Egypt. We don't really know why that is. It's after the unification of Egypt, 3100 BC, for some reason, the creation of stone, of these hard stone bases just ends. And we see a lot of people pre-dynasticastic so pre-dynastic would be before 3100 bc dynastic would be everything after that up until cleopatra's death and the annexation of egypt under the roman empire um these pre-dynastic tombs are very rich with these hard stone vases afterwards we still see the hard stone vases and they're being buried with people but they're being buried with people more like heirlooms you know this is something that belonged to my great, great, great, great,

great grandfather, however many, an unknown number of centuries ago, and it's important to me and important to my family. I'm going to bury myself with it. So from 3100 BC until 2100 BC, the collapse of the old kingdom. So you have three different kingdoms in Egypt. We're about to get to this. But up until Egypt's very first collapse, about a thousand years after they're first united, up until that point, we see a steady decline in the number of these hard stone vases appearing in tombs. So we know that they have stopped making them, and then slowly but surely, people are buried with all of them, and then they're gone at the end of 2100 BC. So that's kind of the context of those vases. Now, after the unification of Egypt, we go through this sort of this dark period from 3100 BC to 3029, 28, 2700 BC. It's kind of this primordial

area of ancient Egypt that we don't really know a lot about why is that um they just didn't probably record anything well they they were recording things but it gets lost over time you know the artifacts it seems that uh that pallets was the thing that they used to record um that they used to record um big events on and these are like i was telling you it's the slate palette where they carve these uh very i say primitive, but primitive compared to what Egyptian hieroglyphs become later on. There's primitive early drafts of what hieroglyphs are eventually going to become. They carve these on pallets and these pallets that are a foot tall get lost, but they're kept, we assume that they're kept in government buildings, kind of like museums, you know. The Egyptians had museums that recorded their history. Ramses in, you know,

1200 BC, he basically makes a museum. Have you ever seen this monument where it's these four huge pharaonic statues carved into a cliffside? That's called Abu Simbel. I don't think I've seen that. This actually might be pretty cool. So Abu Simbel is basically an Egyptian museum made to honor the King Ramses during his day. Now this was built- Oh, I have seen this. Sure, sure.

Yeah, yeah. Very, very popular. Now it's not a museum that Egyptians were going to visit in the same way that we say, oh, hey, let's go check out the National History Museum. What this was is this was on the southern border of Egypt. It was for the Nubians to be able to see. And the Nubians were the people that lived to the south of Egypt. And the Egyptians – Saying don't fuck with us. Yeah. The Egyptians basically beat up on them forever until the Nubians of Egypt. And the Egyptians- Saying, don't fuck with us. Yeah. The Egyptians basically beat up on them forever until the Nubians conquered Egypt.

The Nubians finally have their day for like 150 years. They conquer Egypt and become the pharaohs of Egypt. But the Egyptians kind of beat up on these Nubian, sub-Saharan African people that lived to their south and had a lot of gold. So much of the Egyptian gold didn't really come out of egypt a lot of it came out of nubia to the south and it came out of it came out of mesopotamia so they were just they were just pillaging them for they were they were just beating up on them

now look at how big these things are though by the way oh like the people next to them in that image like assume that's like a five or six foot person right there holy shit man so check this out uh if you go back to that first photo yep so um uh there was one where you see the guy walking in i think it's uh the photo you just had your cursor on um you can see a guy walking into abu simul yeah yeah so right there at eye level as you're walking in it doesn't show it here but you see you see the the base the foot rest of the thrones? Yes. Okay. So these are four different statues, duplicate statues of the King Ramses II.

As you're walking into this inner chamber on the inside, what is at eye level are depictions of Nubians being enslaved. Nice. So you're walking along people who are at your height. So what this is showing the Nubians when they would come visit this monument is this is you. That's great branding. Look up. That's me. This is what you are to me. And then when you go inside of it, the entire inside of this temple, which is really a huge temple, you can look up. Yeah. So this is just one of the offshoots of the main chamber. the main chamber is the one that's lined with all the

standing statues the standing uh rock cut statues there you go um so you have these huge standing statues and then there are these little out outlets off to the side and along the rock walls are all of ramsay's uh military feats. And so, and at the bottom you, you see people, you see Nubians being enslaved and like the whole thing is him cutting off the heads of Nubians, cutting off the heads of, you know, uh, Mesopotamians, people living in the Near East. And it's basically just Ramsey saying, don't fuck with me. This is, this is all the things that I've done in my life. Don't fuck with me. How long did it take to build something like that well um you know they don't really know ramsey's it well he sure makes it made it seem like he built a lot he definitely

built this the quality of the craftsmanship at abu symbol is not the quality of the craftsmanship that you see uh at the religious heart of egypt in luxor really yeah this was just made for the nubians this was just to scare the nubians. So when you go there- It looks pretty goddamn impressive though. It really does. But when you're in person, there's a clear difference between the quality of Abu Simbel, which we attribute to the reign of Ramses and the Ramses statues that you see in Luxor. When they're building it at Luxor, they're building it for the Egyptian people. Can we pull those up? Ramsey's statues in Luxor?

Yeah, yeah. This is just really cool to compare. It's helpful, obviously, for people out there too. Now, these are all – this is all made out of a limestone outcropping. So it's much softer stone. You know, all this is is positive propaganda. It's basically just a a propaganda a propaganda museum um so if you look up uh ramsay's luxor um so is this right yes i i believe that's a granite statue there um

yeah let's try that one yeah so those are solid those are solid granite statues see the people standing at the bottom oh they're built into like and shit, too. Yes, yeah, they are. Well, actually, no. These are disconnected from the columns. The first one there is? They are. They're both free-standing on their own. Oh, okay.

So these are carved out of huge, solid blocks of granite that were brought about 250 miles north. So they were down in Aswan. Aswan is just a little bit north of Abu Simbel. How much does that weigh? Like per something? down in aswan aswan is just a little bit north of abu symbol how much does that weigh like per um these these statues i would guess 700 tons 800 tons and they're taking things they're taking the basis of that 250 miles to build it here back then uh later on at um over a thousand years after this they're taking them so this is 250 miles a thousand years after this they're taking them so this is 250 miles a thousand years after this they're taking statues this size 700 miles to alexandria yeah um so i mean they're they're accomplishing things

that no other culture accomplished before certainly and no other no other culture has accomplished since allegedly allegedly yeah yeah um you know the aliens you know sure sure count them out i can't i can't it, but as far as we know. As far as we know, that's right. I don't know what happened to Napoleon in that pyramid, but I think it had some green skin, you know? Just saying. Yeah. So, but yeah, so they're removing these big, big monuments.

So where do we get off on talking about Egyptian museums? Well, we were talking about the one he built for the Nubians to stay the fuck out, and you were comparing the quality of that to the Luxor. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to remember why. Oh, you're trying to remember why you got to the Abu symbol. That's a good question. I know. There's so many rabbit holes here.

It's okay. We got to keep going down. So we were going down the timeline. Yes, that's it. So we were after the dark period. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after the dark period. Now this here, this is way later on.

Abu Simbel is way, way, way later on. We have a long time before we get there. Because my question had been why we didn't have a record of the dark period. And you had been explaining that because it's lost because yes because um you know it's a lot harder to lose abu symbol it's a lot harder to lose the record of all of ramsay's great feats and everything he did when it's carved into the side of these huge walls but when they when things are carved into small slate pallets right you lose that really easily you know think about how how many rulers you've lost in your life.

Like imagine the amount of history and small artifacts that are gone. So that's what I was saying is that later Egyptian history is much more well-preserved because it's carved into stone on such a monumental scale, you can't lose it. But they were carving things into stone before that dark period. So during that dark period, they just weren't really doing that for whatever reason. For whatever reason, yeah. There are tombs. We have some tombs, but the tombs can only give you so much of a glimpse into what's going on at that time period

because tombs are personalized, right? The vizier's tomb is not meant to record the history of Egypt during the time that he's alive. It's meant to record the things that that guy did and to display things on the wall that he hoped to have in his next life. It's personalized to him. So for some reason, we just don't see as many monuments that marked the history of this early, you know, this, we call it early dynastic. We just don't have many monuments that mark exactly what was happening there. However, Egypt really starts to kick off around the time of the pharaoh

Zosir. So... What year are we talking? This is about 2700 BC. So this is now four centuries have gone by since the unification of Egypt. And only really now are things starting to pop off in a way that they have never before think about how long that is though oh i know right and back then people were living shorter so the generations are happening faster sure but like when we think of time i always i always look at it this way everything that we know is so like whoa like yes we remember the late 90s or something if you were born in the 90s or you remember the 2000s and you can put yourself in those places. And as you start going back and back and back to places where you haven't lived, like for me, the early 90s, the 80s, the 70s, it kind of starts to blur together where time starts to become more exponential. And the farther you go, what the difference between 1800 and 1900 being 100 years is kind of like the difference between 1950 and 1970 and how we're looking at it more in the modern time. So going farther and farther back in time, we get more and more exponential, if this makes sense to people out there, as to how we view it. So when we talk about history like this, we can just write off, oh, yeah oh yeah you know there's a quick 400 years there a little pit stop and boom but there were

like fucking 20 25 generations or whatever it was that lived across that during this time that for whatever reason you know in in time that's you know not double but 70 more than fucking america's existed on a time plane today. They just didn't, they didn't put those records up or they didn't put it in the right place for people to be able to remember. Exactly. Is that they didn't record it in a way that would make it easier for people 5,000 years later to recover it.

Right. It's kind of what we're doing today in some ways, you know, I don't know if, if much of our history will, people will be able to find if the internet is gone, you know, 5,000 years from now.

So we're in this little period that maybe is similar to them. And those 400 years from 3100 BC to the beginning of what we call the pyramid age, you know, we're going to get it all into that. But to the beginning of what we call the pyramid age, I mean, that's 400 years. That's almost twice as long as our own country. And there had to be events during that time that were as significant to them as the American Civil War is to us, just in that 400 years, but it's lost to us. So the pyramid age begins about 2700 BC. And what we think the idea for this is, and I'm saying this in a way that maybe sounds authoritative or it sounds definitive, but I'm just telling you what the evidence points us towards thinking,

is that you have this pharaoh, Zosir, who, as the story goes, was not the greatest pharaoh during the early part of his reign. And his chief architect, Imhotep, is visited by one of the gods. I believe it's – Oh, that's the mummy. Yeah, yeah. Imhotep. And he's very, very famous. And what's funny is he actually had a cult that was dedicated to him

that wasn't begun in Egypt until 1,000 or 1,500 years after his death. His story is very interesting. And to this day, we don't actually, we never found his body. We don't even know where his tomb was. Maybe he never died. He was very important to Egypt. Very, very important. And, you know, so important he becomes the main character of the mummy. That's right.

And so you have the chief architect Imhotep, he's visited by the god Horus. And Horus essentially sends Imhotep a dream, or perhaps he sends Zosir a dream, but essentially saying that, you know, he's not honoring the gods by his rule. You know, Egypt is, you know, not prospering like they're supposed to for whatever reason, and he needs to build a monument that is great enough to bring the Egyptian gods, to bring favor of them back on Egypt and restore Egypt to its age of prosperity. Now, again, whether or not this dream actually happens, we don't know. Dreams play a huge part in Egyptian civilization, huge. It's so overlooked. And we're going to get into this too, because this is like intimately tied with my paper that I'm doing, The Flower That Seduced Egypt.

Yeah, what a name by the way. I'd read that research paper. I fucking hate research papers, but I'd read that one. Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean we were talking about it last night. I didn't even get to the part of dreams and the interpretation of dreams. You know, the first time that we see Egypt in the Bible is with Joseph in Egypt.

And what is he? He's a dream interpreter. Everything in Egypt was based on dreams. Okay, we'll come back to it. Yeah, we'll get back to it. And remind me if I don't bring up the dream part, because there's so much in this paper. So he has a dream that he needs to restore Egypt to its greatness, and he wants to build a large monument. And as far as we know, and certainly – let's ignore the pyramids for a second because that's a contentious topic, and we're going to have a lot to talk about there. But certainly Egyptians, even aside from pyramids, are building huge monuments to basically house themselves in the afterlife. I mean, you have giant mastabas, you have huge rock cut tombs, and a mastaba is

essentially, it's like a stone Twinkie. That's the best way I can describe it. Actually, we should pull it out because people don't- Mastaba? M-A-S-T-I-B-A? i b a a b a a b a yeah m a s t a b a so uh yeah mastaba mastaba um or mastaba mastaba yeah so there you go all right this thing so this thing that's shown here oh you know what should we hit that the one that has like the labels on it sure the gold yeah let's hit that yeah yeah okay that's cool all right so this kind of gets into what our interpretation is of why tombs or even pyramids exist in the way that they do. And there's going to be a lot of layers to this onion. But it's probably important to establish the foundation of this. So you remember what I was saying about Egyptians in pre-dynastic times when we were talking about this last night is you don't want to bury your dead like right outside your house because everything in Egypt is farmland.

It's probably not good to bury dead animals and dead people. Well, you know, dust to dust, soil to soil. Sure, sure. Get a little fucking – get some use out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But our interpretation is that they deemed it as something that probably wasn't smart and they probably didn't want to use their dead as fertilizer either um and they were probably very conscious of things that cause disease along the nile it's a very good place to develop diseases i mean this is the the nile is the origins of the bubonic plague most people don't realize that yeah this i did not know this

yeah you explain how that is so you have medical papyri I think dating back to the Middle Kingdom somewhere around 1800 BC. You have these medical papyri that are basically listing – you have these big hospitals in Egypt, which is something that – I mean we never found an Egyptian hospital. We didn't? As far as I know. No, there's no ancient Egyptian hospital. There's no building that we dedicate to say this was an ancient hospital.

I mean the only actual intact town that we found was a town outside the Valley of the Kings, and it was a tomb builder's town. That's the only – A tomb builder's town. Yeah, yeah. So it's – When did we find this? Oh, gosh. I couldn't tell you.

I mean this is during the age of Egyptology, late 1800s, early 1900s. Oh, when all the British were doing it. Sure, gosh. I couldn't tell you. I mean, this is during the age of Egyptology, late 1800s, early 1900s. Oh, when all the British were doing it. Sure, sure. Yeah. I don't know exactly, but it's this town that will annually be uncovered by the desert. At least now it is. When the desert winds pick up, it'll uncover it and then cover it again. Oh, wow. So it's like a living relic. Sure, sure. But the foundations of the buildings are a few feet high, and that's it. Little small buildings, but these were tomb builders, and they were people that were – they put on – what we think is they put on eye covers every day. And by the overseers of the tomb builders, they were walked through the mountains on the – in the mountains on the west side of Luxor, which is the religious capital of Egypt. They walk through the mountains to where the tombs are, and then the blindfolds are taken off, and they're building the tombs in a location that they are unaware of because it's all kept secret.

But where those people lived, we still know where it is because it was built out in the desert, which is very abnormal for ancient Egypt. They didn't live in the desert. They're not loincloth wearing, desert wandering, camel riding from place to place through the desert people. They didn't like the desert. They didn't want to be in the desert. See, that's how we think of them though. That's how we think of them. Yeah. These were people who were filthy rich, absolutely spoiled rotten by the Nile. These were not desert dwelling people. These were people living in absolute luxury, a scale of wealth that's basically unimaginable compared to the world around them, right? Like think about the Egyptians' perception

of the world around them. To the south is Nubia, a very extremely hot and impoverished place without the wealth of grain, wheat, barley that the Egyptians had. And there was gold out there, but they took the gold. They would just beat up on the people and then take the gold. That's right. When Egyptians traveled out to Mesopotamia, sure, you have the twin rivers out there, but you don't have the kind of wealth and production of wheat and barley out there that the Egyptians do. You don't have that fertile – so they called Egypt Kemet, which means the black land. And that's that rich topsoil that the Nile just gives to Egypt. The Egyptians didn't have to do anything.

That rich topsoil actually flows in the water. And when it overflows onto the banks and then it sinks back down, it deposits that soil. It just gives the Egyptians wealth beyond... Mother nature. Yeah. It gives the Egyptians wealth beyond imagination. And so the Egyptians lived right in that. I mean, within a couple hundred yards of the Nile. You can look up a photo of Nile oasis. It's beautiful. Meaning that during this time period, people aren't living out where it's dry at all.

They're living right, they're all up and down the Nile and everything is located. The towns are all built there. So effectively the country has borders, you know, wherever, here, here and here, but they don't give a fuck.

Uninhabited land. Yeah. Wow. Vast amounts of desert with nothing in them other than tombs. And that's why tombs are so important because it

gives us a glimpse into their world and it's untouched. It's perfectly preserved. You know, the rock sits out there in this arid desert. I mean, you know, the air is so arid and dry there that you can leave a piece of paper on the ground and come back 3000 years later and the paper will only be a darker shade of that off-white color that paper is. You leave it sitting in Europe and it just erodes away and turns to nothing. So Egypt is a great place for things to be preserved, but they're only really preserved in the desert. That's how we get our glimpse into that world. So when we're looking at mastabas- Which is like the earliest type of pyramid effectively.

Yes. But it's not a full pyramid. Sure, sure. Yeah, it is the origin of what we think a pyramid is, right? Now, why does it even – because it doesn't begin like this. The way it begins is kind of – now getting back to – we're going on so many rabbit holes, but it's great. Getting back to what they do rather than just throwing grandpa out in front of the house or burying him in front of the house, what they're doing instead is they're taking people out to the desert and they're clearing a little bit of sand and depositing them in that sand. Are they mummifying them at this point too? Well, here's the interesting thing. The Egyptians embalm people.

The entire mummifying process, we call it mummification. Egyptians don't mummify people. The desert mummifies them naturally. They discovered the fact that the desert dries out the body and mummifies these people. It's another gift that Egypt naturally gave these people because rather than burying them in this rich soil where they just erode away and turn to nothing, traumifies these people. It's another gift that Egypt naturally gave these people because they, rather than burying them in this rich soil where they just erode away and turn to nothing, eventually they want to take them, you know, let's bury them out there, bury them out in the desert. And so they clear away this sand pit burial that they bury them in the sand. And then, you know, it probably begins as like, uh, you know, grandpa really liked this vase. He really liked this, um, turquoise jewelry.

Wow. I don't want it. Let's just, let's just bury it with them. You bury it in there. And then there's some other guy out there who maybe he helped you bury your grandpa. And he didn't want to say, I would really like to have that face. You know, I really like to have that jewelry. I'd be able to give it to my wife. He doesn't want to say that to you, but he goes out and violates your grandpa's tomb and digs it up and steals it. And then when you want to go visit your grandpa and go see your grandpa's body, or maybe at some point they come up with this idea that exhuming people should be done, that they want to dig back up their dead ancestors and and see them somewhere along the way they returned to a sandpit burial and realized two things one the tomb had been violated and all the things i gave my beloved grandpa somebody has stolen them that's that's insulting blow blow two why doesn't their body look that decayed why doesn't it look as decayed as it did when we were burying people in the black land? And we don't really know exactly how they made sense of that, but superstition begins then. One, I don't want people violating anybody's grave. You don't take things from them in the

afterlife. And what if that hurts my grandpa? What if he had these things in the afterlife? I mean, these are things you think about laying up at night. So put yourself in remote history before Egypt has really even began. Think about a guy sitting in his little mud brick adobe hut who farms every day and all he does is just think. He's not listening to music. He's just thinking and thinking and thinking. And think about how quickly religion, cults, superstitions form, you know, when all you do is think all the time, you know, while you're working, you know, of course they partied a lot, but you have a lot more time to sit around and think about the world that you actively live

in. You can't just sink into a phone, right? So other things happen, other obsessions happen. And so you come away with two things. One, somebody has violated this person's grave and they keep doing it. And every time that we go out to where we bury bodies, all of the bodies are dug up and all their stuff stolen. So you start developing superstition about that. Two, there must be something important to the bodies being naturally mummified and being preserved in the sand like this. Of course, they don't look like they're a living person, but they don't quite look, they don't look like a skeleton. Yeah, they're not disintegrated. Yeah, they're not disintegrated. So obsession begins. And we see this slow change from people burying people in pits. Well, what do you do to stop

a sandpit burial from being violated? Let's just cover it with heavy stones. Just bury them deep in the sand and just put a bunch of stones on top of it. And that'll be enough of a deterrent for somebody to be like, that's not even worth it. We'll just get all these sandpit burials. When all the other sandpit burials start doing it too, you go, okay, well, let's just start removing the stones. And then when they remove the stones, they figure out that, oh, because people thought we wouldn't bring out all these stones, they started putting more valuable things in there. And now that the superstition is beginning that it's more important to be buried with valuable things, there's going to be even more valuable stuff in there that they're going to try to protect. So the stone covered sandpit burials,

with just a mound of stones, doesn't work anymore so they go oh my god what are we going to do alright rather than sand let's go find some bedrock and chisel a tunnel into the bedrock and let's bury somebody in a tunnel under the ground and then let's hide the entrance

it won't take long to tell you neutral's ingredients vodka, soda, natural flavors. So, what should we talk about? No sugar added. Neutral. Refreshingly simple. And then those are still found.

Okay, well, we can't hide the entrance anymore because people are going to find it. All right, all right. Let's build. Let's just build a building like we build a house, but the only thing in the building is a body. So there's no vacancies or there's no hollow chambers. It's just a little slot for a body. Like think about a sarcophagus with a big building around it as the outer wall, right? But then people still pull up all the blocks and get to the body and take all of it anyways. And they go, what the hell are we

going to do? So we build a big tunnel under the ground like this one right here. And then we're going to build a big building on top of it. How deep is that tunnel approximately? They're all different. There's thousands of these, dude. And they had, and there wasn't like a standard. No, they're personalized to everybody. It depends on the amount of wealth that you had. It depends on what you were able to hire other people to do for you. You know, this is expensive work, by the way. Like, you know, you were spending a significant amount of the money that, a significant amount of the resources that you had in life to get this done for you.

And so, you know, a shaft going straight into the ground like that, they vary from six feet to 50 or 60 feet. 50 or 60 feet. And sometimes they go at all different angles. Sometimes you have descending 45 degrees. Sometimes they're straight down and they lead to a chamber. And you can only assume that once upon a time there was a wooden ladder going down. And so they build a big building on top of it. And these buildings still get quarried away. Um, and they

start to get creative with like, okay, well we can make door jams. Like we can have this long hallway that's carved out of, out of bedrock, but it doesn't matter. Nobody will be able to dig down into it or sneak into it because we'll have this, we'll, we'll go get granite instead from Aswan. Think about how expensive this is. I mean, this is, you know, this is Northern Egypt. You got to bring the granite up from Southern Egypt, 500 miles away to get this block of granite. And you're going to slide it in place. It's called a portcullis. You're going to slide it in place in front of the chamber that leads to the tomb. And that's going to stop people. It doesn't stop people. Nothing's nothing stopped these people from getting into tombs. And how do we know this? Because, dude, it's not just a handful of tombs.

It's thousands of them. Thousands of them. And sometimes they have bodies and remains inside that we can carbon date. Well, quick question. You said that obviously Egyptians were just incredibly wealthy across the board. But there had to still be some people who like relative weren't wealthy right oh yeah well well yeah you know when i say wealth i don't necessarily just mean money i mean um i mean you're living in the most beautiful place on the known world with the most wealth around you that anybody has seen in the in what was then like the first world

society that existed sure so meaning there's still class structures as you said some people are more wealthy than others absolutely but there's people who are beneath the wealth levels of being able to even do this right exactly yeah so what did they do with their dead um they would sometimes sometimes they had poppers graves sometimes poppers yeah you know you know, that's not an Egyptian term. It's just a term that we have for poor people. Oh, like pauper. Pauper, yeah.

Oh, your fucking Texas accent is killing me. Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. It's like pauper's grave. Gotta use damn pauper's grave now, your boy. But, you know, they're just thrown in these pit graves. And we found out in the deserts, there are people who are just thrown in massive holes. I mean, there's this big open hole and all you were was, say, a slave. There were slaves in Egypt. And all you were was a slave and you couldn't even afford... So get this, I mean, we know that

superstition and obsession with death and the afterlife, it wasn't like there was this dark obsession. It was actually a beautiful obsession. So, you know, when we think about people who are obsessed with death, it sounds like it's so dark. No, no, no, no, no. They fantasized about it. They looked forward to it. They were expecting it to come. They wanted it to come because the next world was going to be better. It's not really about the death. It's about preparing to enter into the next place. At the time period we're in, what did they think of the next world? What was the religious context there? Well, you know, this is kind of getting into Egyptian mythology, which is, you know, you can only take, you can only go through Egypt so quickly. You know, Egyptian mythology isn't my

understanding, more so anthropology. You know, you have mythology, how they understood their religion. Mine is anthropology of what they lived their lives like. And so I'm kind of just now getting to the point where I'm going to start studying Egyptian gods, which are closely tied into their perception of their world. Next podcast then. Yeah, yeah. But a very loose interpretation of what their heaven would be like was living on the Nile again. Living on the Nile again with all the things you wanted in the next world, though. You were going to be a higher,

you were going to be, at least they hoped, you were going to be a higher class citizen than you were. You move up a bit. Yeah, yeah. You would have these little statues, these little statuettes that you might be buried with that would be like these little magical people who would really just be your slaves in the next world. But they were magical people that were going to help you farm. They were going to help you go fishing. They were going to help you just do all the things. You still had to do all the things you did in this world. You were still going to be a wheat and barley farmer, like 99% of people were in Egypt. But this time you'd have slaves working under you

so you can go fishing more. You know, it was just a better life and it would last forever. And they prepared for that for their whole life. And they've spent a lot of time and went to great lengths investing in what their tombs would be like to prepare for the next world, you know?

So that's what they thought that their heaven was gonna be like, just a continuation of the wonderful place that they already lived in. That is what, you know what I mean? That's like, they knew how their heaven was going to be like just a continuation of the wonderful place that there are that they already lived in that is what meant you know i mean that's like they knew how special egypt was got it but you were saying we got into this because you were saying that someone as low as a slave would be dumped into a hole basically yes people let's let's look at people above slaves who weren't you know literally there against their will but lower class people they're just put into a hole and whatever happens, happens.

Yeah, so you have less expensive real estate along the – you have these huge necropoli, which a necropolis is basically a city for the dead. An acropolis, an acropolis would be like Memphis, Egypt. It would be like New York City. That's an acropolis. A necropolis means a dead city. And so you have these cities for the dead. And, you know, the closer you get to city center, the more expensive it becomes to actually build there.

So if you're really, really poor, you are put in and you want a little bit of security for your tomb, they dig this shaft. That's probably, uh, you know, two feet by two feet wide by six or seven feet deep. And you're put into a, you're, you're mummified, you're embalmed because you, you know, you probably save up to afford that. Um, and then you're mummified and rather than put into a stone sarcophagus, you may just be put into a wooden sarcophagus. And your buddy who kind of knew how to write magical inscriptions and spells to bless you in the next world, to give you some comforts in the next world, to bring things with you in the next world, you inscribe these magical spells along the inside of your coffin, along the outside of it. And rather than being slid into a wall or rather than having something dug down into the ground where there's a chamber at the bottom where people can maybe walk in and visit you, or you have this big open room that your sarcophagus sits in, your sarcophagus is lowered up and down straight into a hole in the ground. And then that hole is, you know, maybe

there's a place block that they place on top of that and then cover it with dirt. So it just disappears. No one knows where it's at. That's uh that's like your middle class you know um your middle class guy can can afford something like that in the next world yeah it's interesting though with this whole topic first of all the fact that they were embalming people back then you know we're going back we're in 2600 or whatever right now so we're back thousands of years you know the the being able to figure out to do that at all is incredible and it's also interesting because we are a unique species that does this there's no other species that buries their dead the you know you die and the natural process of your body being coming apart of the earth again happens but we for thousands and thousands

of years across many different civilizations and cultures have these customs where we literally take the body and we use real estate is what land real estate yeah to put it down in there and it's just so fascinating to me that back in times where people had to worry about where they were going to take a shit that day. Sure. You know, they're thinking – even in a high-class society like Egypt, they're thinking about the relics of honoring people in death to the point that they're living in places – living. They're dead living in places that were better than where they even lived while they were here. That is fucking wild it's like it's like part of the human condition it's yeah it's never enough yeah and and you

lost the other point is you talk about the they're them figuring out the importance of dry burial and everything you know i never thought about any of this stuff but joseph scott morgan who i've had in here a few times episode 146 and then he was in here for episode 170 and 171, talking about the JFK stuff. But the first time he was in here in episode 146, you know, this guy, for people who haven't seen those episodes, he's fucking amazing. He's like the death investigator on TV. So anytime there's a case, he's coming on and breaking it down. And he had written like a very, very highly rated book years ago. It's like the best book ever written by someone from the death investigation side and breaking down the forensics of everything and what you got to look at. And so obviously in his career, he has – he deals with a lot of things that have to do with burials and exhuming graves and stuff like that. one of the things he was talking about in episode 146 is the power of water in mother nature and

what it does if that is able to get into a body it just destroys everything in its wake and we don't think of it that way because you know we're like oh we're drinking water right now it's a part of us and everything but man in nature holy shit so for them to realize that you know literally just something as simple as keeping it far away from water, you would think, oh, heat – it's going to like wither away the body. There's no – and there's no fluids in the area. It goes against what you would think. But in death, it makes sense. Yeah, yeah. know that in the last, so let me think, the practice of mummification, it ends sometime

around the end of the Roman era in Egypt. So, you know, the Romans, I think that Egypt is a part of the Roman Empire until 641 AD. So it's part of the Roman Empire for a significant amount of time, like 671 years, I'm pretty sure. You know, around the end of that time, maybe the Christian era, until the Christian era of Egypt around 300 AD, they were still mummifying people, but that eventually ends because it's seen as a pagan practice. But since then, in the last 1700 years, as far as we know, only one person has been mummified in the same manner of an ancient Egyptian. And it happened on TV like 30 years ago. It was this documentary called Mr. Mummy. And this Egyptologist, Dr. Bob Breyer, who specializes in mummification,

somehow got permission to use a cadaver, a dead person. Maybe he got explicit permission from the person before they died, and he mummified this person and buried them in the same fashion, or he mummified this person, basically buried them in a sandpit burial. But this was all done in a lab to kind of mimic the conditions of Egypt. And they mum and they, they mummified or they, they put him in a sandpit burial for 30 days. It dried out his body. And then, you know, they finished the, uh, they finished the, uh, the rest of the mummification, like wrapping process and everything.

And they buried him in the fashion of an ancient Egyptian. Uh, so I just, yeah, you would, you would, for anybody watching, uh, the documentary, it's like 25 minutes long. It's called Mr. Mummy. It was a TV special. And so that's the, in the last 2000 years, only one person has been mummified in the manner of an Egyptian. So the reason that we think that pyramids exist in the way that they do, following this logic, you can kind of see where this is going. It gets to a point where a man, one single man is so powerful that he can commission

an entire country to get behind his burial. What else is he going to spend his money on? You also have to get the Egyptian people to do something. You can't just... Egypt is so rich and they're producing... One man, one man can produce so much grain on his farm that he can feed. I don't know what the statistic is exactly, but you know, one man can feed like a hundred men from his farm, you know? So you get to a point where you have all this farmland and you have such an excess amount of food that there's a lot of people in Egypt who are not doing anything to contribute to the economy. So as a pharaoh, you got to do two things. You got to create a labor force and you got to

create an army to employ people because you have all this surplus wealth, right? And when you have a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing, it doesn't do anything good. You have subtle instability kind of creeps in. So the pharaohs build an army. They also establish a workforce that is constantly doing something, constantly building a temple. Look at Rome. You can only imagine how many empty temples and forums there were in Rome. Oh, yeah. Because – and look all around the Roman Empire.

Every time a Roman emperor came in, it was his job to the country to build new temples for the glory of Rome. But really, it's to keep people busy. You have all this money, you got to keep them in line, because otherwise, they're not serving you, right? They're not your servants, they're not your people. If you're not employing them and paying them, you got to keep their obedience and keep their loyalty. So the Pharaoh has to do the same thing. You know, all this is a, this is a playbook. Like the Romans picked up the playbook from the Greeks who picked it up from the Egyptians. This Roman emperors are just the next era of what the, of what the Pharaohs were. Yes. I think that's fair. Yeah. And so you have to keep people doing something. Why do we – why am I at this point? Well, we're going through the timeline we were talking all about.

Okay. I'm sorry. You can cut that. Sorry. It's staying. Yeah. I've got so many rabbit holes. It's all right. So the pharaoh, just like Roman emperors later on, and Roman emperors wrote down exactly why they did these things, and it makes sense. So we can only assume pharaohs are doing the same thing. So you got to keep people employed. And so it's perfect reason to employ a bunch of people to build your tomb, right? Yes. Which pharaoh was this again? I mean, we assume all of them.

Well, all of them. Yeah, so we're right at Zosar. Now we've covered all this space and we kind of understand how the economy is coming together. And this guy needs to employ... And you know, this may be the moment where they had the realization, 2700 BC, when he has the dream that Egypt isn't doing well, probably some instability. This may be the moment where they had the realization 2700 BC when he has the dream that Egypt isn't doing well, probably some instability.

This may be the moment when they realized, oh, we need to – okay, we have all these people because we have all this grain. We have all these people sitting around benefiting from society but not contributing directly to it. Okay, let's just organize a massive labor project. Like let's fund all these people, give them an actual job to do, and let's build something great. And so it's a way to provide some stability for Egypt. And so the great architect Imhotep, he essentially comes up with this plan. If you pull up the mastaba one more time.

Oh, that's what we were just looking at. Yeah, Yeah. If you pull up the mastabo one more time, he comes up with this great plan to build this mega structure. And basically what it is is it was originally a mastabo, which was, let's say it's, let's say it's a, originally it's a three by one structure. So, you know, it's three units of measurement long, one unit of measurement deep. Well, eventually they turn that into a giant square and they make it long, right? It's this huge expanding structure, but it's only one level. And I think this isn't as impressive enough. Let's put another one on top of it. So they put, so if you go to the step pyramid, it's on there. It's the second one.

So you see how the step pyramid is just six mastabas all stacked on top of each other in descending order? So they figure, why don't we just take one mastaba and stack another one on top of it? Oh, that's pretty cool. Let's stack another one on there. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. And they do it six times and they create this like, I mean, they create the biggest building

on the entire planet by doing this. What's that Snoopy mean? I'll fucking do it again. Yeah, yeah. So this is what that is. And keep in mind, you know, there's a lot of, the people that are standing in front on this photo is not giving you a great perspective of how actually gigantic this thing is i mean they they they are standing about 200 yards away from the pyramid uh in that on that

photo wow um so um yeah i mean these buildings in front um yeah they're pretty sizable they're they're absolutely gigantic And these are still about a hundred yards from the pyramid. Yeah. I mean, that thing really is truly gigantic. And one of the ways that we know without a shadow of a doubt that what they were doing was they originally built a mastaba at the core of the structure and then they just expanded it was when you walk along the side. I had the realization while we were there, I was standing next to Tolton Stone. He and I are looking at the pyramid. I go, oh, that's the original mastaba right there. And you look at the side of it where, you know, later archaeologists have torn off the foundations or they've been quarried away. You know,

so many things have happened to these pyramids. So many people have violated them for one reason or another. The original slanting sloping exterior wall of the original mastaba is still inside the structure you can see the casing stones slanting down the lowest uh the lowest layer you can see the remnant like if if you were to pull everything off you could leave the original building still standing there and you can see it from the side how thick is that wall how thick in terms of the stones they're using well okay do you mean casing stone or the actual wall between like here's the wall and then here's the inner chamber actually yeah the second one yeah 50 or 60 feet yeah yeah

now that's not the that's not the blocks right but that's how that's how thick the pyramid is bro if you put a bomb outside there you might not get all the way through you wouldn't you yeah you definitely wouldn't um i mean they tried to blow their way into into multiple pyramids using dynamite and they couldn't do it so you know um the structure on the inside of this you probably walk you know 50 60 feet might be might be underest underestimating it. There, there is a, there is a tunnel in here that the Persians later carved out maybe around 500 BC. And I mean, you walk along that thing for a hundred feet or so until you even get to the first chamber. And so there's this huge cathedral chamber that actually runs up the center of it. And it leads

to this rock cut tomb that's under the ground. And so another idea for it, you know what I was saying at first before they started building the pyramid up and they're building it long? The precipice for that idea could be that, you know, some of those mastabas where I was telling you that it's a stone building that's on top of the hole in the ground, the shaft in the ground where the tomb is buried. Well, what we found evidence for is that people decided tomb raiders. I mean, Egyptians have been tomb raiders since tombs existed. They have always looted their own tombs. That's a fact. And they were very creative with how they did it. And that's almost like sometimes as impressive as just the tombs themselves

and these giant structures that they build is just, they figure out every way to break into them after they built them. And so, uh, they, they dig these tombs. Basically what they do is people build this huge stone building with this long shaft tunnel burial chamber, you know, and because they think it's so secure, they, they put a lot of riches down there. And this guy's like, nobody's ever going to get to this. I'm going to put all of my wealth down here. Cause no one's ever going to get to this. I'm going to put all of my wealth down here. Cause no one's

ever going to violate my tomb. I'm going to have all of this in the afterlife. And the Egyptians come and they see this big, uh, they see this big building. They go find one of the guys that helped build it. And then they go, we'll pay you to tell us, you know, tell us how this, tell us how you built this. And they go, well, you know, there's this big chamber down at the bottom. You had, you know, you had, you had st you built this and they go well you know there's this big chamber down at the bottom you had you know you had you had stonemasons guilds and probably what you had was people working in the stonemasons guilds like us three right here we work as part of the team and we get paid pretty good for it because it's a high-paying job you know it'll pay even better if we come back and and raid this thing because we know exactly how to do it and

then we go sell all the stuff that we've stolen. And when they built it, they would build effectively like a booby trap structure and everything to try to prevent people from doing this stuff, right? Or are we not there yet? Not booby. Yeah. Booby traps. I'm wrong. There's a few booby traps in Egypt, in Pharaoh's tombs. Yes. We don't really see booby traps in much else. So how would it be so hard to get into a non-pharaoh's tomb? Like what types of things would they do in the building process to make this impenetrable?

In a pharaoh's tomb? No, in a non-pharaoh's tomb. Oh, okay. Well, that's actually what I'm talking about is this mastaba. So these mastabas were used by all kinds of people. You know, just this shaft in the ground.

It eventually evolves to like an impenetrable tomb. Impenetrable, nothing was. But it eventually evolves into the pharaoh's tomb. And you begin to see the pharaoh as Egypt become, as the pharaoh in particular becomes more powerful, he starts to separate himself from everyone. You know, his tomb is becoming more grand. But these mastabas, they will go, okay, they built this huge stone structure so that we can't reach the hole that goes into the ground. Why don't we dig a parallel hole and just skip the whole building and go straight to the chamber? And that's what they

did. They would just dig into the ground and then dig towards the center of it. And then they would hit the chamber and steal everything. Like El Chapo. Yeah, exactly. Exactly like that. So, you know, and then, and then, so, so then probably when they're building that, that lower mastaba and rather than, um, you know, like I said, it's a three by one structure, they eventually make it like a 10 by 10 structure. You know what I mean? Yes. And, uh, and so basically what that is doing is, okay, we have these shafts and chambers under the ground. We're going to build this thing so far out that it would be ridiculous to dongle underneath it and get to it. And they were right. Nobody, nobody did that. Um, and then they built the, they built the, the six, um, uh, six stacks

on top of it. Well, I say they were right. Nobody did that. Nobody did it back then 2000 plus years later, uh, eventually people did. did. But so they think that they think that that is the origin of pyramids. That's why pyramids began. And then eventually as pharaohs become more powerful, and the ability to quarry stone, now the stones that make up this pyramid are pretty modestly sized, like this big, you know, with all my might, could carry one stone, right? And that's the whole pyramid. There may be some larger casing stones at the foundation, but there's nothing that is... I mean, you've seen the Great Pyramid. You know how big those stones are. They're the size of this table. It looks fake. It looks fake. It literally is like, what? And so the idea is that

as stone masonry and the ability to quarry stone moves on through means by which still can't be explained. And I think that that's something that people in my space, like, you know, I'm friends with, you know, people who are alternative researchers, but I am an academic. You know, I read the papers. I read textbooks, you know, and I try to come at these things because I was kind of raised by Graham Hancock's fingerprints of the gods before I ever went to school. I have this permanent imprint in my mind, or I have this permanent impression of looking at things through a different lens and being not only open about, but excited about the things that we don't understand.

And as an academic, I am very open about the fact that we don't understand. And as an academic, I am very open about the fact that we do not understand the mechanisms or the techniques or the processes by which the pyramids were built. You know, now we have gone from, so Zosuer's third dynasty, we have these little chapters in history, so in Egyptian chronology. So now we finally come from 3100 bc don't worry guys we're still getting to rome conquering egypt um but now we've finally gone from the unification of egypt we've just passed the first pyramid right um and i'm explaining this because it's important for people who are interested in yeah this is amazing you should i love this okay yeah you good yeah a little bit too much cocaine last night yeah fucking guy first one who wanted the first one to get

deviated septum wins winner over here yeah i definitely definitely have that um so we've now crossed this paramount invention of the first pyramid and you can see how the obsession with tomb building has really gotten out of hand in the last 5,000, you know, more than 5,000 years, or more than 500 years, 3100 BC to 26, 2700 BC. Now, and that was the third dynasty. Zosir and Imhotep are in the third, the end of the third dynasty. And the way dynasties work is, you know, we go through Egyptian history. They didn't view themselves, you know, Zosir didn't say, oh, I am Pharaoh, you know, Zosir, king of the third dynasty. He didn't even know he was in the third dynasty.

That's just the way we compartmentalize looking back at them. We see these little chapters, and then there's a big switch in the government. And, you know, it's essentially like, it's essentially... – it's essentially – It's the same thing we look at sports. After teams win multiple Super Bowls, we decide to label them a dynasty. Sure, sure. Then go into it thinking it. Yeah, yeah.

Probably what will happen is Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs will retire. They'll have a terrible quarterback the next year. And then that's the beginning of a new era. And then you refer to that era. The dark ages. Sure, sure. If Patrick Mahomes is era three, then the next of a new era. And then you refer to that era, you know, Patrick Mahomes. The dark ages. Sure, sure. If Patrick Mahomes is era three, then the next one begins at era four. That's how we view.

That's actually a great way to explain it. That's how we view ancient history. We look at these little changes and then, okay, that's the start of something new. It's a new era. So we're now in the fourth era of Egypt, the fourth micro era. You have these macro eras too. So you have the unification of Egypt, the fourth micro era. You have these macro eras too. So you have the unification of Egypt. Then you have for about 300 or 400 years, you have what we call early dynastic. After that, it begins this old kingdom, which happens somewhere around the beginning of the third

dynasty to the beginning of the fourth dynasty. Depends on what you deem as being important. I would put the third dynasty in there because it's the first pyramid. You have Imhotep and Zosir, just iconic people in Egypt. That begins this thing called the old kingdom, which is, it's the golden days. And the Egyptians always called it that in later periods. You have the golden days. And now we're in the golden days now of the old kingdom. This stretches from, you know, 2700 BC until 2100 BC. And so we're still at the beginning of it right now. You know, things are about to start kicking off. So we go to, we go out from Saqqara, you go a little bit South. So the deserts of Saqqara, a little bit now

South of that is the deserts of this place called Dashur. And you have- How do you spell that? D-A-S-h-u-r or e-r you know okay dashur egypt yeah let's pull up a map just so you were coming from sakara to dashur yeah so so it's it's uh you have you have these hot spots that are these dead cities um cities of the dead these necropolis unless he's right on it okay there we go um so it's just a – Is that the Red Sea over there? No, no, no. Yeah, it's a portion of the Red Sea. Oh, can we zoom out?

Sorry, I was looking at that way too small. Let's zoom out some more. A little more so I can see the Mediterranean. Got it. Okay, now I see where we are. Yeah, so – By the way, look at your flower right there. I know, I know.

We're going to get it. We're coming back. I'm excited. Now you're never going to unsee that. I'm never going to unsee that. That was one of those moments where when you explained this whole thing to me that we're going to get to, obviously, sorry, blue ball people. And then you showed me the picture. I was like, oh, no.

Yeah, yeah. It all makes sense. Yeah. So I'm excited to talk about that too. But that's sure. I got you off that. So we've gone from Saqqara. It's this large necropolis.

And it wasn't just Zosra that built his pyramid there. You can't see it on Google because they all focus on the step pyramid. There's other pyramids there. I went down inside of another pyramid at Saqqara. There's a dozen other pyramids there and other pharaohs buried themselves there. And all the people who were close to the pharaoh who were either, you know, siblings or relatives, you know, mothers, sisters, wives, you know, they have multiple wives, they'll all be buried there too. And all the people- You went down in there? I did. Do you have cell service down there?

No, not down in, you know, as soon as you not down in – as soon as you enter into one of these ancient structures, the stone, the courses are so thick. You just – See, that's a booby trap in and of itself. They were thinking ahead. Exactly, exactly. They're like, fuck your iPhone. Well, and they knew that – it's even impenetrable for Starlink. I have Starlink when I go.

No, Elon can't get in there. Elon can't get in? He's going to get in there. Yeah, he's going to get in. He's going to hear this podcast. He's going to be like, we'll find a way. Yeah, yeah. That would be so funny. I could see that being clipped on X and then he responds to it. We'll do it. So yeah, so Starlink can't even get in these things. And so you have all of these people. It's this hot spot. It's this hot real estate where you want to be buried, right? And then it just, you have

new pharaohs, new dynasties, and people are like, yeah, I think I want to be the first pharaoh buried at a different necropolis. You know, I want to do something new. So they leave Saqqara and they go, I mean, just a stone's throw away down to Dashur. And this is where the Red Pyramid and the Bent Pyramid are pyramid are built now this gets into actually before that they go down to this place called my doom but that doesn't really it seemingly doesn't work out now this is where i'm going to openly state before we get started that what i'm going to say is the official chronology and even i seriously cast doubt on this um so you throw it you're throwing some doubt on the mainstream luke i am i am and so how dare you you can't do you cannot do that in here well and when i explain

it it's going to make sense to you that it's going to make sense to you that it doesn't make sense so um this is essentially a summary of the official chronology of the pyramids. And I don't know why it's like pulling teeth just to get academics just to admit that really, I mean, come on, it doesn't make sense. So you have this Pharaoh Seneferu. Seneferu, I'll give you some context about him. He, he's probably one of the most important pharaohs in all of Egypt. Um, undoubtedly he was a part of the very first true pyramids. There's really no doubt about that. Um, how many of them he was a part of is, is a contentious thing because he is attributed as being the builder of three pyramids, which is, you know, I mean... That's a lot of labor.

It's a lot. It is a lot. Now, we know that his reign was very successful, and he was a very good pharaoh. What made him successful? What standards? Well, so this is something interesting that Dr. Bob Breyer looks into. If you listen to some of his lectures on Egypt, he has one called The Great Pharaohs of Egypt. And he basically says at the beginning, listen, we're not going to focus on dates. We're not going to focus on all these things that historians focus on. We're going to focus on the people. Over these next 10 lectures, we're going to focus on the people that made Egypt great.

And you can't really follow personalities through Egypt like you can in ancient Rome. You know, we can follow Julius Caesar every step of his entire life. In Egypt, you kind of have to put things together and you really have to be a detective to figure out what somebody's personality was like, right? I mean, the Egyptians were, whether, it's certainly intentional, but whether it's intentional to be this effective, were very good at propaganda. We look at Roman emperors as personalities. That's not what they really wanted us to look at them like. They wanted us to look at Roman emperors as personalities. That's not what they really

wanted us to look at them like. They wanted us to look at them like gods. However, so much literature survives about these people that we know that Caligula was not a very good guy, that Nero was not a very good guy. No, he was a great guy. I love Caligula. Now, with the Egyptians, we don't really know that. How do we look at Egyptian pharaohs? We look at them, our perception of them is exactly the way that they intended it to be. We look at them as mythical, semi-divine people. They're not like normal people. They're kind of like gods.

We don't really know anything about them, right? All we see are these eternal, stylized, gigantic statues. And the statue pretty much speaks for itself. That's exactly the way they wanted you to perceive them. And that's the only way we can perceive them. So their propaganda worked forever, right? So it's really interesting. Only very few times do we actually get a glimpse into a pharaoh's personality.

And so before we get into these three pyramids that are attributed to Seneferu and why I really cast doubt on it, and I don't really know the answer, but we should explore it, I'm going to give you a couple anecdotes of why we know that Seneferu was a great pharaoh. So first comes from this ancient papyri where we see a story of Senefru, and he's living in the city of Memphis, and he's kind of feeling down one day. He just, you know, I don't know. He probably has a bout of depression like everybody else does. And he talks to one of his, you know, one of his boys, and he's like, I just, I'm just not feeling good. I don't know what to do. You know, I just not i'm feeling down take a fucking klonopin and it

is and his buddy and his buddy is his buddy is like hey you know you know hey you know i know i know what'll get you up i know i know what will raise your spirits is why don't we go get on our barge let's go sail down the nile let's get it let's get Nile. Let's get 20 women and put them in their scantily clad fishnet dresses. I mean, they knew how to dress back then. They had some really beautiful old kingdom dresses that are made out of these little fishnets and stuff. I mean, this would have been quite the barge to be on. And Senefru had just recently opened up some of the, some of the, oh, what's it called? It's the, it's the light blue stone, turquoise mines. He just opened up these turquoise mines. And this is the new trend in Egypt is all the women

want their, want their jewelry to be made out of turquoise. It's the new thing, you know? That's like their TikTok trend back then. Yes, it's the new TikTok trend. All the women are walking around in their fishnets with the turquoise jewelry with a side of gold. I mean, these would have been some good-looking women. And so he goes and gets on his barge, and he's hanging out on the barge,

and one of the young ladies that's on it, she leans over the side of the barge to look in the water and this little amulet that, you know, we can imagine that maybe it was a, only thing we could really imagine it was, maybe it was a scarab.

You know, the scarab is central to Egyptian psychology. You know, we don't have to get off in it, but they were like dung beetles. And so, but it was the, it was the center of a necklace and it's made out of turquoise and she leans over and it falls off her neck, and she's basically inconsolable. And she's telling Senefru, oh my gosh, I just – I lost my amulet. I lost my amulet. She's crying. He's much farther above a king, and in a way, he's above an emperor too. An emperor is an emperor. He's an ultra king, but a Pharaoh is a god. No one, there's only one

place on earth that a man can ascend to the level of a god, and that's in ancient Egypt. And that's probably what got Julius Caesar killed, is that when he went to Egypt, he was being treated- As a god, and he begins to not see himself as just a Roman. So there's a clear distinction there. And when the pharaoh, when God walking on earth, or the embodiment of God on earth gives you something and you lose it, it's deeply hurtful. And this lady's lucky that it was Seneferu and not some other vile king or something who would feel disgusted by it. He tries to console this girl and he's like, it'll be okay. It'll be okay. We'll get you another one. And she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want that amulet that you gave me.

And another, just to further reinforce how important it is when the pharaoh gives you something, is much later on, over a thousand years later, when Tutankhamen, King Tut, King Tut was obsessed with gypsies. And you know, these little people that, these little sub-Saharan African people that existed in Nubia. And he tells one of his generals, I want a gypsy from Nubia. Bring one to me to my palace. And so this – sure enough – Coming right up. Sure. Sure enough, this general goes to Egypt and gifts Tutankhamen a gypsy.

And Tutankhamen appreciated this guy's effort so much that he wrote him a note, which is probably on the back of these little wooden scarabs. So you have this, you have this beetle carved into a piece of wood on the bottom side of it. You'd have hieroglyphs carved into it. And basically to take home and told this guy, thank you so much for your effort. I really appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you for going and fetching this gypsy for me. That general appreciated that letter from the Pharaoh so much that he buried himself with it. Whoa. It was that important to him. So imagine how inconsolable this lady is that she's lost a special one of a kind amulet that only, you know, she was one of the few people that was

given it. She was probably given it when she got on a boat with him that day and she already lost it. So she, she's inconsolable about it. So Senefri goes, okay, I won't just give you another one. We'll go get this one. Now this gets into somewhere where we might be seeing, it's either some kind of, you know, mythology or they are mystifying something that they're doing in real life. But basically they go back to the dock and they go get this magician. Now what the magician does is they sail back out and they're back to the dock and they go get this magician. Now, what the magician does is they sail back out and they're able to locate where this amulet is in the water and they part the waters and retrieve the amulet. Now, is this just like a little legend that's kind of on the end of

this? Is it just like a little legend that it didn't really happen that way, but something happened. That's probably what it is, but what is that thing that happened? How did they part the waters? Did they have an understanding of how to create like a cofferdam or something like that? You know, something to be able to get something back out of the water. It's just, just an interesting little, little anecdote there. So that's one anecdote that we have for why... You get a glimpse of Senefru. This is somebody who this young woman can speak back to him and say, no, I don't want

another one. I want that one. She's speaking back to him. Probably a lot of pharaohs, you can't just speak back to them. Yeah, you don't really do that back then. You don't really do that to them. And keep in mind, this is a woman doing this. So this is a man who's – yeah, this is a man who's approachable, right? And he's allowing this young woman to speak to him like this. So he's approachable. It gives you this sense that he cares about people on this kind of level. It's very similar to an anecdote that we hear about the emperor Hadrian when – it's not when he's in Egypt, but he Egypt, but Hadrian spent 20 years of his reign traveling all around the Roman Empire. And at a certain point, life seems simple to people who are on

lower levels of society, but life is anything but simple for an emperor. And he's walking down the road and this woman reaches out and grabs Hadrian by the arm and pulls him back. And she's like, hey, I need you to help me with something because the emperor was like the father to the Roman people, right? He even handled small local domestic cases, if that makes sense. Like he could even address those and people could bring their grievances to the emperor, but that's not always how it went. So it's a similar thing to, we know that Hadrian was at least a decent guy because when he you know he yanks his arm away from this lady rather than you know having her slaughtered right there on on the spot that would have been the move that's what you're supposed to do yeah he yanks his arm away from this lady

and then when he's when she's when he's walking off she goes what's the point of even being emperor and then and then hadrian with her head and then know, but then Hadrian turns around and he goes, okay. Oh my God, he must've really liked her. Yeah. Or he was a good guy. You know, there's a lot of- I think he was just trying to hit it. Maybe so. But there's this, you know, there's several anecdotes like that, that we get a glimpse of Hadrian being a good person. And so he turns around and he decides to help this lady.

This is a similar anecdote that Seneferu didn't think so highly of himself that this lady couldn't talk back to him. Just the point of this story, the only reason it's written down is because it is conveying to us Seneferu's personality. For one reason or another, we don't really know why this story was written down or anything. Another anecdote as to why he is an important person and why his reign was so successful is all throughout. So at the end of the Old Kingdom, he exists at the beginning of the Old Kingdom. The Old Kingdom eventually falls off and there's this time of turmoil after this, you know, between 2100 BC and about 1850 BC. You have about 250 years of turmoil and Egyptian civilization just falls apart. I mean, and there's people writing these papyri letters back and forth to, you know, their relatives that live in Mesopotamia, you know, they're writing letters back and forth. And we found some of these letters that say, Egypt is completely upside down. It's being ruled by foreigners.

Everything is backwards. They say the rulers are now the peasants. The peasants and the foreigners are now the rulers. Their religion is gone. The temples are being sacked. The temples are being desecrated. And they say, I wish for the time of Senefru. I miss the time of Senefru.

I wish we could live back in the golden days of Senefru. I miss the time of Senefru. I wish we could live back in the golden days of Senefru. So all throughout- Make Egypt great again. Exactly. All throughout Egyptian civilization, these people are longing for the time of Senefru. They're always looking back on it. So we know that Senefru was a very powerful king. Another little side thing that makes him interesting is, hey, try to pull up the Stella of Senefru, S-T-E-L-A, and then Senefru is going to be S-N-E-F-E-R-U. S-N-E-F-E-R-U? Yeah. All right, let's see what we got here. It's been a good day for the screen. Got a lot of good little images to see okay is this what you're looking for

well that's a no no um okay well maybe maybe just maybe yeah yeah maybe just delete everything other than the word snefru maybe snefru statue even though it's not a statue, but that might come up. Okay, so that's a Sneferu statue, but there's one where he depicts himself. So this is 3D relief, but there's one where he depicts himself in 2D relief, where he's facing to the side. All right, so type in 2D relief on the end of that. That's perfect. Well, let's hope it's perfect.

Yeah, yeah. 2D relief. Truck month is on at Chevrolet. Get 0% financing for up to 72 months on a 2025 Silverado 1500 custom blackout or custom trail boss. With custom trail bosses available, class exclusive Duramax 3-liter diesel engine and Z71 off-road package with a 2-inch factory suspension lift, you get both on-road confidence and off-road capability. Dirt road ahead? Let's go! Truck month is awesome!

Ask your Chevrolet dealer for details. Smell like that? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is this what we want? This also looks interesting as fuck. I'm not seeing it. It's not a very common thing you know it's it used to be in the in the back corner of the cairo museum and nobody would ever see it um and now it's at the new museum and i just happened to i just happened to stumble across it but anyways um so that's a that's a depiction of senefre but the more famous one

is is him on this 2d uh plaque and the way he depicts himself oh that's it i'm sorry it's the long one it's the fourth photo uh yeah there you go there you go yeah that one yeah yeah yeah open that can you see how oh he's holding the thing so look at that he kind of has so look at it he has a little bit of like a recessed chin his nose is a little bit too big he's got a little bit of a double chin um he has a double chin yeah when you're up close you can see it he looks like he does cardio he's got a little fold right there in his chin but but uh under his jawline yeah yeah but you know he's uh um dr bob bryer describes him as looking a little bit like a nerd you know he doesn't he

doesn't look like he wanted himself to look like that? Double chin? It was a true depiction of who he was. He wasn't lying to you about the way that he looks. Oh, he was a man of the people. Respect. Yeah, yeah. He has a nose that's a little bit too big,

a chin that's a little bit too recessed, right? He doesn't have this huge, strong, masculine jawline. This is like the equivalent of no filter Instagram. Sure, yeah. This is no filter instagram sure yeah this is this is this is no filter instagram basically and so you know he's kind of it looks like he's kind of an honest guy you know whereas a lot of pharaohs have that iconic uh iconic pharaonic look to them that is not really human it's just pharaonic that's what it is it's their art style this is kind of real

you're kind of really seeing what the guy looks like. So we have a couple little anecdotes there that show that, you know, we have people talking about the golden days of Snefer. We have an anecdotal story about who Snefer was as a person. And then when he depicts himself on a Stella, well, he doesn't look like the most masculine, good looking guy ever. That's probably really what he looked like. You know, he probably had a little bit of a chin and a nose. that's a little too big, you know? So it's an interesting view into Senefru. All right. Now, the archaeological data behind Senefru's three pyramids. This is so entertaining, by the way. I'm mesmerized right now. So you have the Pyramid of Maidum, or Medum. You have the Bent have the bent pyramid and then you have the red pyramid so um the bent pyramid or i'm sorry the the collapsed pyramid of of my doom

we're about to get off into so many rabbit holes here this is this is the most contentious area of egyptology is what we're about to get into um so he, basically what he wants to do is, you know, the step pyramid, it's obvious steps like this. Correct. What he wants is flat sides all the way down, smooth from, you know, a sharp point all the way down to the end. Now this requires an effort that's never been seen before in Egypt. It requires smooth casing stones. So you have, you know, no matter how big you make it, eventually the pyramid is always going to have steps like this. Correct.

So you need triangular stones that are placed here to make the sides smooth. This is something that hasn't been done before. And so the idea is that they're not really sure how to approach building something this big that's going to have these smooth sides and perfect casing stones. And they have a structure on the inside of the pyramid as well as a structure under the ground. So they have one of these rock-cut tombs as well that exists under the pyramid. Now, there's a lot of conflicting ideas here about, well, okay, could this be some kind of rock cut monument that's in the ground that the Egyptians later repurposed and turned into a tomb? And, you know,

Senefru wanted to build his tomb up on top. There's so many levels and layers to this onion to peel back. It's a lot to go through. And, you know, it takes a lot of studying just to be an expert on like one pyramid and understand all the little nuances that go into it. But the traditional idea, and then we'll get into, you know, the contradictions and start peeling the onion. The traditional idea is that he didn't really know, or his architects, you know, it's not him. He's the pharaoh. The architects didn't really know how to go about building this new thing that's going to exist. It's going to be a perfect pyramid. It's no longer six mastabas stacked on top of one each other. It's totally new structure. It's going to be one solid pyramid,

except that's what we've thought for a long time. That's what Egyptologists still currently say. However, Flinders Petrie, back in the early 1900s, when he draws his illustrations of the pyramids, there's a superstructure on the inside of it. Can we pull it up? Pyramid of Maidum. You can even spell it Maidum, M-E-D-U-M. Okay. medum m-e-d-u-m okay so he's building the uh this idea is that it was this uh structure where the corners weren't um the corners were built on shaky soft stone uh ground and the foundation wasn't strong enough so you see how there's a tower sticking out of the middle of that yes so originally um that base is like kind of withered away yeah the base is completely withered away all right so the traditional idea here is that he was building one complete solid structure and it was going to be one complete solid pyramid the same way kufu's pyramid is um uh as far as we know um because it hasn't fallen apart like this.

And if we cut it in half like a cake, you'd learn a lot. It's really hard to learn a lot when you're just looking at it from the outside and going through the chambers on the inside, trying to understand as the courses of stone change, well, what's going on in this passageway? It's really hard to diagnose or get an actual idea of what's going on on the inside. This one has fallen apart. So the traditional idea is that the corners of the building were uneven and that eventually the outer stones just slid off the side. It wasn't stable enough to still be standing. But at the same time, that isn't the case, there is an

inner building here. It wasn't just all one pyramid. You can literally tell by looking at it that this is multiple phases. And Flinders Petrie, he actually excavated the bottom of it or surveyed the bottom of it pretty well. And he draws up this diagram. You can even do pyramid of my doom, Egypt, Petrie illustration. So Petrie is going to be P-E-T-R-I-E and then illustration. And he'll give you a diagram of it. And you can see that this one too is multiple buildings on the inside, kind of like how the step pyramid is actually multiple buildings. Sorry, Alessi. Not Petter Petrie. Oh, well, this is fine too. That works? Yes. It's not Petrie's illustration, but Petrie documented that this is actually multiple structures on the inside with this tower.

And then that – Oh, I see what you're saying now. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So you can see it would have been a perfectly triangular outer surface, but on the inside is actually multiple buildings. And so the question here has become – okay, so top left. You're on the right photo. You're on the right photo.

It's the top left illustration that we're highlighting. Yes, where you can see a building within a building essentially. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Within a building. like the alternative research in just as far as my doom is at right now where, okay, okay. These outer casing stones that make these things perfect pyramids, we are getting to a point where we have all sifted through so much data. Cause like I was telling you last night, we're at this sort of second Renaissance era where, you know, look at the first archaeologists from the, from the early 1800s. A lot of these people are out of their mind, right? They are stupid rich lawyers

who really their main fascination is archeology. And even though archeology hasn't really become a profession at this point, it's more like tomb raiding. That's what it is. And they have all these fantastical ideas about ancient civilizations and the hype for Atlantis is alive then too.

And everything there is either looking for Atlantis or this lost white race civilization. Like a lot of it is pretty racially prejudiced in the early 1800s. You don't say. Sure, sure. In the early 1800s. And so that doesn't really exist today. Although guys like Graham Hancock are being accused of being racially prejudiced. Yeah, that stuff's ridiculous.

Yeah, it's stupid. That's ridiculous. That exists in the 1800s, and I don't personally see it at all today. However, a lot of these early 1800s archaeologists are kind of out of their mind, and they don't really know what they're doing. And that's okay because the field was just getting started. It's the way it happened. But it starts to become more rigorous rigorous and people go from antiquarians. So an antiquarian is basically a very rich person with an interest in funding tomb raids,

basically tomb looting. And sometimes these people were conscientious and these things ended up in museums or they sold them to museums. And sometimes they sold them on a market for a lot of money and sometimes documented it as well. So, you know, all this stuff is valuable. But then the study of archaeology begins to become more rigorous and it transforms from antiquarians documenting and selling the artifacts that they loot to, okay, these things are very important. We need to preserve this so that the history isn't lost and doesn't end up in people's basements, you know, where so much of history is today. So it begins to become more rigorous. Well, now academia has kind of gotten to a point where it has gotten so rigorous that now it's kind of

shooting itself in the foot at a lot of different turns, you know? Um, and academia has sort of become, uh, I don't know, a cult. I don't want to, I don't want to hit too hard on academia, but, um, you know, and now academia is kind of, it's getting left behind by this new age of – like we were talking yesterday. I could legitimately – if I decided to spend the next five to ten years studying on my own, I could legitimately become the world's leading expert on the Great Pyramid from my bedroom. Today, yeah. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. Today I could do that.

Academia has got to learn to deal with this in one way or another. What do you think that is that they still haven't caught up in the sense that – I understand that sometimes people come out and they make ridiculous claims and it's confirmation bias and it just goes against the mainstream to go against the mainstream and that pisses off academia. I'll see that part from their perspective. But they write off everyone who doesn't have a fucking PhD or six degrees from this place where they learn from this guy or whatever. And yet we've now lived in this era. I'll even cherry pick and say it isn't since the internet was invented but even since like social media when the internet really 2.0 came around we've now lived in this era for the last 19 20 years where people do have access to learn including from all the academics who have written this shit yeah that you previously had to go into libraries at these universities that you had to have access to to be able to read or or or be subscribed to these fucking journals that you know people weren't a part of but now it's right at their fingertips why do you you think there's still so many of them are so ivory tower about this?

Well, I think, you know, man, that's a – there's a lot of ways to answer this. I think that it is – it's dangerous in a certain way. You know, people having access to their own information. It threatens, certainly threatens job security. Certainly threatens the ability for, you know, academics book The Emerald Tablets, like Billy Carson's book The Emerald Tablets, is the number one selling book in the genre of Egyptology. And it is not – my personal opinion is it's not a book people should read. Why? is my personal opinion is not a book people should read uh if they if they want to oh it's just it is just um abjectly poorly written i'll just i'll say it i'll say it publicly i'll say it publicly

it's poorly written poorly researched um uh i'll just say if i were a billion here we'll play this clip sure we'll see what he says yeah yeah you know i've made it i've made a video kind of correcting some of billy's's thoughts on the ancient Americas. But at the very beginning of his book, the very first photo that he shows, he attributes it to being a Maya pyramid. It's not a Maya pyramid. Oh, that's your territory. And one – I mean five seconds on Google would show him that. So not a very good source for ancient Egypt. And academics in a way rightfully really ancient Egypt. And academics, in a way, rightfully, really dislike that because they've dedicated their entire life to this.

Now, we're kind of at a point here where, I don't know, it's kind of like a relationship that's gone sour for 10 years, like a romantic relationship that's gone sour for 10 years, you know, like, like a romantic relationship that's gone sour for 10 years. You're both pissed off at each other, but neither of you can remember how it all started. It's just now everything you do pisses the other person off. So probably all of this really begins with Graham Hancock and the people who come before him. And, and, you know, I am not an expert on like the, the whole, this new Renaissance era of all the people who have played such a big part. But the people who influenced me when I first got into ancient history, Graham Hancock, Robert Shock, John Anthony West. Everybody listening, Graham Hancock is the guy who initially started looking out for, you know, Fingerprints of the Gods. He had other books before that, but Fingerprints of the Gods, 1995, is his most famous book. And in there, he has some ideas that he himself doesn't even agree with today. But that's his most famous book, looking for what everybody presumes to be

Atlantis. And he mentions Atlantis a bit in that book, like name drops Atlantis. What are some, what's an example of something that he wrote in that, that he doesn't believe today? Oh, well he alludes to the, to the Olmecs, which we'll, we'll talk about. Um, he alludes to the Olmecs being potentially African. Um, and you know, um, because they, they, the Mexicans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, he, well, we'll look at the heads and you can kind of tell how they might look African, but they're just not African. And in 1995 DNA evidence of Olmec people didn't exist to know that there's no African DNA in there. So he was positing it. It was all speculation. Another thing that he said in the book that he doesn't agree with today is he speculated that the entirety of the pyramids,

you know, that they're 12,000 years old. He doesn't think that anymore. He thinks that the majority of the construction of the Great Pyramids is from the Fourth Dynasty around 2600 BC. And he says this on Joe Rogan and on Lex Friedman's podcast. Is there a clip of that with Rogan? Sure, I reposted it on my X account. Okay, so can we pull up Luke's X and just find that?

Yeah, maybe search Graham Hancock or pyramids or something like that. Yeah, search Luke. Go to X and search Luke Caverns Graham Hancock and see if there's a clip. But continue. So those are just two things. I'm sure there's others. But those are two big ones. People always talk about the Olmecs,

and people are always going to talk about the Great Pyramids. So he's changed his tune over time. And by the way, that's okay. It's okay. long as people aren't like purposely doing it to grift or whatever that's and doing it all the time flip-flop flooping just for what's popular i'm cool with people saying not only cool i i think we need to live in a world where people go wow i found better evidence therefore i've changed my opinion like this shouldn't the fact that we're so married to these things that people have to say we want the rogan one oh i'm sorry it actually is this one yeah it's this one right here yeah so this is on lex yeah yeah not rogan okay all right

let me pull it can we crank that volume alessi and let's grab that restart that clip too because it's not on you gotta turn my i think that where kufu was undoubtedly involved in the great pyramid and in a big way but i think he was building upon and elaborating a much older structure and i think the heart of that structure is the subterranean chamber which is a 100 feet vertically beneath the base of the great pyramid anybody who suffers from claustrophobia will not enjoy being down there i think that we're we're kufu was undoubtedly involved in the great pyramid and in a big way but i think he was building upon and elaborating a much older structure and i think the heart of that structure

is the subterranean chamber yes which is 100 feet vertically beneath the base take it back maybe like two seconds where you where uh yeah yeah keep going keep going there all right so he's saying i think undoubtedly kufu is involved in the building of that structure and in a big way but i think he was building upon a much older structure and i think that the heart of that much older structure is the subterranean chamber what he's getting at here is you can see that subterranean chamber that's under the ground there. You see that little mound that sits up on top of that too, where the ground isn't just flat. There's a mound there. Can you see that? Yeah. So there's a mound there that the pyramid is built on top of. It's not just flat ground. That primordial mound, as it's referred to, is something that we think that the

Egyptians always revered and that Khufu chose to build on top of it for some reason that's lost to us today. And the evidence is pretty strong that he did that. And I was firmly in the camp over the last 10 years that the pyramids in their entirety must be 12 000 years old and we don't know how they did them and everything and i've changed my tune to okay i think it's pretty obvious the the era in which they're built but how the how it was done is relatively completely unanswered and you've changed your opinion on on what you said last time with what you thought it was positing that it was more literally like Khufu building it and shit like that with some of that evidence?

Yeah, I think that, yeah, I think it's built in layers. And the earliest layer, we have no idea of how old that is. And there's a lot of things about the Great Pyramid that don't make sense. I think we can put it relatively in its time and place. Carbon dating doesn't seem to line up. Like you can carbon date. So one of the traditional ideas is that there's no mortar between the stones of the pyramids, that they're placed perfectly next to each other. Well, that's the case on the inner chamber because the inner

chamber is like the best stone masonry in all of Egypt, but the outer stones, there is mortar between those. And you can date that mortar because it's natural, it's got some biological material to it. So you can date it. And when they date it, it's about three or 400 years older than the traditional chronology of when we place Egypt. Now what they're doing is they're carbon dating stones that are relatively on the exterior, like just inside where the casing stones used to be, if that makes sense. The casing stones are gone. So the first stones that are there, there's mortar between them. They date that. The dating of that mortar is about three or 400 years older than when we

thought the pyramids, when I say we thought, Egyptologists think the pyramids were built. So what that alludes to is that there's an even older structure at the heart of this pyramid or that it was built in multiple phases over time. But I would say pretty much undoubtedly Khufu had himself buried in that thing or intended to have himself buried in it or it's a symbolic monument to his burial. Like sometimes Egyptians would have two burial places. They would have one in the north and one in the south. And essentially one they were really buried in, and the other one was like a monument for the people of that area, if that makes sense. It's a monument of his life for the people of that area to remind them of who he was.

There's a lot of vain thinking going on here one of the big things we were going back and forth on is the ability to move and i'm gonna fuck up the names of i'm gonna try with some of the names of the rocks but the ability to move the weightage of rocks that they were moving to be able to build this and where they had to specifically get it from from near the nile or whatever to get it over there but i mean i don't know if you saw ai answered how they did this oh did they really oh you didn't see this no i didn't alessi go to x and type and well we're already there perfect type in into the search bar type ai pyramids okay so they asked ai like how the fuck did these egyptians build these pyramids in the time period they did because the rocks weighed more than like fucking a thousand people at a time could carry. So just type in.

Yeah, there we go. Go down right there. There it is. Yeah. Click that video. Here you go. That's it. See, dude, that's exactly what I'm getting.

That's what they did. That's what they did. They came down. That's in a ufo yes and then it opened up like a fucking trojan horse see the alien yes see how the giant people oh my god and then the floating rocks and shit and look at how big they are compared to the people and how they could just lift exactly it makes perfect this is what happened it looks like even talks and there's where did the velociraptor come from

that's that's where he came from he came from Egypt building the pyramids when they came down from the sky in a UFO why is there's a pyramid

upside down in the sky that's right unless you go out of this one if you don't mind there's another one that's even more clear we can pause that this is actually

what I was leading into yeah yeah go down right there this one yeah so here's the actual giants can you say

enu naki enu naki I believe it maybe down right there this one yeah so here's the actual giants can you say and new nakki and new nakki i believe it maybe maybe baby but look at how big these things are there's all the people working there they're moving in on boats and shit my god and then they got the elephants and then the giant people so these are these are like some of the regulars and then when you see the giant people they're look there he is it's actually unreal how real this looks ai is getting good bro oh my god it's scary good ai is getting good there's a shot there's a shot in there uh there's a shot in there of that clip of the headless sphinx and dude it looks like you it looks like you inserted a real clip in there that right there that right there the one in black and white that go back go back dude that looks real that looks like the real sphinx you know without uh

without a head or the rest of the top of its body that is so weird telling you that's really what i was getting at is is at the end it was giant people and aliens that did all of it. They came to the earth. He came around. They came to the earth and they said, listen, I have traveled millions of galaxies. I have seen other universes. I have seen millions of civilizations like you know like venom in the new movies he's seen so much of the universe i know what's important to you no no no no it's not the cure

to the bubonic plague that's not that it's a pyramid it's not the cure to all these diseases that kill your children it's not the care about aesthetics not feelings it's not the cure to infant mortality rates. I am going to show you how to move these stones. That's right. And then they go, God damn it. I already knew how to move stones. No.

Not on that side. They learned. Sure. They didn't know how. They learned. Yeah, yeah. So I'm of the belief that it's not really a question of timeline, not so much. There's some things that stand out and there's some things that I think, yeah, the heart of that structure could be a lot older, like Graham is saying. I think that the exterior, when the Great Pyramid was capped off and they – it's done.

It was probably under Khufu's reign, 4th dynasty, about 2550 BC. When construction first began at Giza on that primordial mound, that original platform that the Great Pyramid is eventually built on top of, I don't know. I don't know how old that is. It would make sense when you look at breaking up other pyramids like I was showing you earlier. It would make sense that some of these pyramids are built in layers, a lot like Mesoamerican pyramids are. Mesoamerican pyramids are built over the course of a thousand years sometimes. And it's multiple generations building on top of each other. And when you, you know, it's like, I've been- A thousand years.

Sure. I've been to pyramids where archaeologists have cut a slice of the cake out and there's this triangular hole in it and you can see all the different layers. Dude, we knocked down stadiums that are 25 years old. I know, right? That's fucking crazy. We have not cut the Great Pyramid in half to be able to – we haven't created this big crevice inside of it to be able to look at the layers of the cake. All we can do is look at it from the outside and then when you crawl through it, you can see the courses of stone and when the courses change and what type of stones. It changes from this hard limestone that you find locally. Most of the two million stones that are used to build the Great Pyramid came from right next to the that you find locally. You know, most of the 2 million stones that are used to build the Great Pyramid

came from right next to the Great Pyramid. It is the casing stones that line the chambers of the most important walls, that line the walls of the most important chambers that came from 500 miles south. And those are the red granite stones. And they're absolutely gigantic. Like your ceiling right here is probably the size of the face of one of six.

Whoa! The size of the face of one of the six stones that are in the ceiling of the king's chamber. This is an 18 and a half foot ceiling. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By length. Yeah, they're about this long and almost that wide. And there's about five or six

of them in the ceiling and then how oh but so the width is like the same yeah check out check out uh the weightage here's insane king's chamber diagram great pyramid you'll you'll get to see it and i when you're standing next to that thing i mean i remember that it's just that we said it earlier like you went into the king's chamber when you were in i did yeah yeah so as it's so bit like when you're coming up when you're coming up to it from far away right it's miles away but you know you're in the desert so it looks close you're like oh that's not that bad and then you get up that you get up close and you're like holy top uh do the third one this one yeah Okay. So this is looking at it from the, you're looking towards the long angle, right? Like this is north south. So the room is actually deeper than it is wide

here. And the stones that are stacked in the ceiling go from left to right. So you know how that first ceiling that you see, it only looks like one stone. Okay. There's five more stones behind that one. And that stone, the width of it, the width is actually longer than the depth from this perspective, but the width of it is about as long as your ceiling here. And the depth is almost as deep. And there's about six of these. But if you look on top of that, there's about a two foot space between that ceiling and the next ceiling. And there's one, two, three, four, five ceilings here with all of these stones that weigh 80 tons a piece. So 80 times six times five, whatever that is. And I think, I don't know, my mental math is awful, but you can just get 4,800 times

five. Yeah. Yeah. So 4,800 times five, that's 23,000, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's 24,000 tons sitting securely on top of what we call the King's chamber there. Um, that's 20. Oh my God. So, so you can just imagine, imagine moving all of that. It's really a miracle of innovation, engineering, architecture. It's something that the world has not, as far as we know, not seen before. As far as we know, not seen since. The Egyptians never did it again after this. And I feel like archaeologists kind of play off, they kind of shrug off how absolutely mind-boggling this is. And when you have engineers and architects that go there and stonemasons that go there and they're just absolutely perplexed at how this was done, you know, those are people that you should probably be inquiring with about how these things were done. And when even them are like, I don't know.

Then archaeologists sometimes have the gall to dismiss that perspective because you're an archaeologist. An archaeologist is an expert in many, many things. But archaeology is also a very, very broad field that requires the expertise and the input from various other fields to give us a better perspective of the ancient world, right? Because if I saw a giant stone temple, and as an archaeologist, maybe my first impression, maybe I'm more worried about trying to find a tomb. Maybe I'm more worried about canopic jars, which are these alabaster, very beautiful jars that Egyptians stored their remains in, like inside their tombs. Maybe that's more my thing. Maybe I'm more worried about mummification. So when I walk into a temple

that has these mind-bogglingly gigantic stones, it just doesn't register in my brain because it's not something that registers with me and um and i don't see the importance in it right and so i kind of shrug off like you know when somebody who's not an archaeologist that i don't respect in this area when they say something about like are you seeing this huge stone temple how do they do this and you're not really an expert you don't really know what you're talking about that's the problem that's what's happening in academia um not just archaeology it's any academia that's run by humans the same thing is happening but the answer is not to become what you hate it's not okay it's not and and for i say this in almost every podcast because it comes up in the context of almost everything we ever think about but the universal law of physics for every action there's an equal but opposite reaction the offset is supposed to be equilibrium but it can be

painful depending on how big those actions are in either direction so when you have this ivory tower close and academic world that has taken this attitude for so long and had no no we'll take care of this you people run along in an age now like i said 20 minutes ago where the internet exists and people have this research that they're fascinated in at their fingertips when those people raise points not even points of like hey this is definitely what it is but it starts as like questions like hey have you thought about this and they're told no no no fuck off run along you develop people into being anti you and and and wanting them like even if they don't realize it wanting to have the confirmation bias of finding whatever the opposite of what you think

is yeah yeah and to me you know a tough example of how far we've come that was that was tough to watch because of who it was was was that sit down that Joe had with Hancock and Dibble. Because Flint Dibble is a very mainstream archaeologist. He does bring a lot of evidence to things. I think some of his attitude is a little bit like cringe and it's like, you know, oh, no, no, no. This is what we archaeologists thinks. Now, Danny had him on, really liked him. so he's a good guy so you know maybe maybe he's a really good guy i just think some of his attitude towards that makes you want to not root for him off the bat that said he body bagged graham hancock and

i could even correct that comment and say graham hancock really body bagged himself because in that sit down not that flint dibble was right about every goddamn thing and not that he didn't write off some things and it was like four hours long or something that you know maybe he probably shouldn't have written off based on whatever evidence he thought he had but like hancock was coming with anecdotal anecdotal evidence at best on on many things and also you know devolving it into look what you called me and look what you did to me, which is playing the exact game those guys want him to play. Because here you have one of the godfathers of the non-academic movement on this thing who, whether he wants to be or not, is a representative of so many different people who are seeking, you know, to find some truth or ask the right questions and be heard. And that's not a good look when you go on there. And then, you know, him creating all those Twitter wars afterwards. It's, you know,

I don't know, Graham, I've been a fan of listening to him over the years. It doesn't just all change overnight because of that. But that was very disappointing. Yeah. Well, you know, I, so, so two things to, to preface what I'm going to say is I have respect for both of those guys. Obviously, I grew up under the influence of Graham Hancock heavily. I might not be doing what I'm doing if Graham Hancock wasn't born. I agree with you. Secondly, Flint Dibble, I don't know him personally. It's been a while since we've spoken. But I think before he even went, yeah, a few months before he even went on

Joe Rogan's podcast to debate Graham, he and I spoke to each other and he gave me personally a lot of resources that I used in studying ancient Greece and some of those resources specifically, because he's an expert in, well, I an expert but uh you know he knows a lot about minoan crete i don't think that that's like his specific thing of expertise but minoan crete bronze age greek culture uh very interesting might be the basis or an inspiration for plato's atlantis as well you know i think plato's lance is probably a culmination of many civilizations great civilizations that were destroyed under cataclysms. This happened to the Minoans. He's probably being inspired by other things as well. We can get into that.

But I wanted to learn more about the Minoans and that actually, his recommendation for some of these textbooks and academic resources actually led me to writing my paper called The Flower That Seduced Egypt. So, you know, I appreciated him taking, he took a significant amount of time to give me a very, very long response to some things. And, but I agree with you that, you know, as an academic who's going to be around in this field for a long time, I think that my attitude and my approach will be a lot different, you know, Because I think that whether it's warranted or not, I think being aggressive with people turns off their brains. I agree 100%. They don't care what you're saying. Yes. And I feel like a lot of times academics, especially archaeologists that are in this combating misinformation movement,

like combating Graham Hancock, they present all of their information in a condescending manner, as if they don't actually love what they're talking about. You don't see the love for what they're talking about come through. And that, I was very inspired, you know, the wonder and the romance of ancient history and archaeology, I was very inspired to pull that, to manifest that to the front of my personality by my mentor, Ed Barnhart, and by, you know, who I think is maybe the greatest lecturer of all time, Dr. Bob Breyer. He's an Egyptologist. I think that Gregory Aldrete does a great job too. And then I think –

We're trying to get him on the show. Come on, Greg. Yeah, I think – and then I think right there coming up behind those guys who's going to be like a great voice for Roman history, Tolton Stone. I agree. He's amazing. You can tell how much he loves what he's talking about. He's amazing. Roman history, told in stone. I agree. You can tell how much he loves what he's talking about.

And so, you know, when I speak to people, even though, you know, I have a healthy amount of skepticism about things and I have a healthy amount of respect and understanding of the, you know, mainstream or traditional understanding of ancient history, I don't ever talk down to people. What remains of the service for me is I hope that people can tell how much I deeply love what I'm talking about. And sometimes I think that people, they don't want to hear about why tombs exist in Egypt, and they don't want to hear about the psychology of how Egyptians came to be who they were, and how if you understand that, you might have a better understanding of the pyramids. You might have a better understanding of why they exist and where they exist and why all

these things came to be. All that's important, but it's presented as though, oh, you know, the only reason that you don't understand anything about the pyramids is because you don't understand this and this is what this really is. And all the information is, is it's always presented in this negative connotation. It's, it's condescending or some, some people, you know, there's been this huge movement in the last, a little bit less than a decade of YouTuber, of ancient history YouTubers that, you know, let's say like Uncharted X, Ben from Uncharted X or, you know, whoever else,

you know, they are presenting interesting research that you can or can disagree with, or you can agree or disagree with, it doesn't matter. But they're presenting it in kind of a neutral tone, right? And then to combat that, these other archaeologists, it's this neutral tone that's not meant to be intentionally combative to the mainstream or whatever. They just kind of – they reference the mainstream and say, I disagree with the mainstream, whatever. But then the mainstream attacks them in return, if that makes sense, like low blows them rather than giving it a respectful response most of the time. And so what that does is it immediately creates bad blood and all the people – these people and all the people who are fans with them, of them immediately turn you off, you know, negative response turned off. And so it's created this, uh, it's created this battle

now. And now you have entire archeologists who have made YouTube channels in the YouTube channel is specifically meant for debunking. You are not breeding a positive community. You're not breeding a positive place. And a lot of these YouTubers, their only big hit videos are debunking Graham Hancock. So you have made yourself a villain. There's a lot of money in that. Sure, sure. And you've made yourself a villain. You're going to get the views, but you're not breeding a positive place

and you're not breeding like an evergreen garden that's going to last forever. This is going to die off as fast as the thing you're attacking dies off. It's just not good. And so I think that, you know, I kind of think that's where I stand with this whole, you this whole culture war.

Well, yeah. Well, this is where you come in, Luke Caverns. This is your opportunity. This is why I liked you off the bat because your passion and genuine love for what you do comes off like crazy. I mean you literally – you love this stuff inside and out. You are pickled that you get to do this for a living and there are to your point there's some people where it almost feels like you know they've devoted their life to it but they talk about it in such a way that you said that beautifully like that that almost feels like

it's it's just a matter of business rather than an actual it's yeah exploration it's like it's like they're bitter that they have to talk about it yes Yes. And for you, you, as we've outlined today, are able to straddle those two worlds, the pure academic world and the independent researcher world, because you have pieces of both of those in your background and you are very open-minded. You're not only open-minded about being wrong about things and changing your opinion as you've already demonstrated with some things today as opposed to our last podcast. But you are also someone who is willing without being prompted to do so to say, I don't fucking know. Or this is not my area right here. And there are so many goddamn charlatans in academia and outside it in both of these realms who they got to have a fucking answer for everything.

They got to explain, well, you know, it could be this or it could be that. And you are humble in who you are. You're also like you know so much. I mean this has been mesmerizing today so far listening to all this and you just creating these timelines and going down these perfect rabbit holes and explaining how it all ties together. And like you're not even 30 years old. So the whole world is your fucking oyster here. But I want people like you to win. That's why I bring you on here. That's why I'll continue to bring you on here. I try to look for people who are going to be close to, to how you think about things. But I have not, you know, it's not like I've casted the widest net yet. I'm still

early. I'm five years into this, whatever it is, like I'm still early on here. But, you know, it's not like I've casted the widest net yet. I'm still early. I'm five years into this, whatever it is, like I'm still early on here, but you know, I haven't found people who are as sober about things as you are. That's how I've described you to other people. Like when I was talking to Jesse Michaels about you yesterday, like, I'm like, this guy is sober in how he looks at things. He's not going to go fucking, you know, on a bender and tell you, I'm going to tell you the whole meaning of the world when he's got nothing behind it. He's just going to tell you the facts as he knows them and the things that we still have to figure out. And that to me, like the fact that there are people at home who cannot handle that or cannot, their brains that are probably perfectly big and they probably

have intelligence. It's not because they're stupid, but they have got themselves to a point where they cannot hold two thoughts at one time. and the idea that one thing that could go against their worldview of youtube videos that they fucking watched or papers maybe that they've read will offend them to such a degree that they'll shut it down is crazy i mean danny had a guy like helping run his discord for i don't know how long and it was like not the biggest discord so he wasn't like paying that close attention but without even saying anything when danny brought on flint dibble the guy deleted the discord didn't even say anything to him and i'm like well that guy's a fucking moron yeah like that those are not the people you want to breed yeah to to be in an audience i don't want people to feel like

they got to be a zealot on something you know you can have hard opinions in in the audience i know i have plenty of people in my audience who do you know you can have hard opinions in in the audience i know i have plenty of people in my audience who do you know across all different types of spectrums but the idea that like you are so against you know someone saying something different than you think that you'll you delete the dude's discord that that who who brings them up like come on bro yeah when i see stuff like that i get i get really disappointed And to be clear, that's a minority of people. It just happened to have one bad apple there doing that. But, you know, we got to get to a point where we can talk about this in the diplomatic way with which you talk about it and research it.

And I just – I think that's a beautiful thing. Well, thank you very much for saying that. Um, I, yeah, I feel like I'm, I feel like I'm kind of standing on a little bit of an Island right now where, um, and maybe that's a good place to be. Um, but I feel like I'm standing on a little bit of an Island where I am trying to tell everybody who is moving in this one direction. Cause you know, speaking in general terms without calling people out, sometimes I see people make really interesting videos five years ago. And in the comments of those videos, there are people who are saying, you know, there'll be a vast group of people saying, Hey, I wonder if this leads to this thing. What if this

leads to this thing? Oh yeah, that sounds really interesting. And then all of a sudden, a couple years later, I see that creator is creating videos only highlighting the evidence that they know is really going to excite their audience without highlighting the evidence that's counter to it, right? And you're creating an echo chamber by doing that. And you're actually manipulating your own audience and you're breeding an audience that is less informed than you are. And it's just not a recipe for a good state of mind. It's not a recipe for a healthy life. And it's not a recipe for success either, because that is very limited. And it's just, it's just immoral to do that. And so in all of my

videos, and you know, I've just not even scratched the surface of the things I'm planning to cover. Like I've wanted to talk about Egypt on my channel for so long, and I have done it intermittently, but studied it for a while, and now I've been there. I feel like I have a good, solid foundation to be making videos about it now. But in my videos, I am presenting to you what is known and just telling people what my ideas are. And I'm also presenting the counter, the counter evidence for my ideas. And we're going to get to that when we get to the pyramids, when we get to the Great Pyramid here in a minute, because, you know, that is the center point of all of this. Yeah, let's, let's, let's do that. This is perfect, because we just had a nice tangent on that. But I

want to keep you on your timeline, because it's been incredible. Sure. So, so now we have gone from, you know, so let's just wrap up Senefri real quick and his three pyramids. So it's a very contentious idea to think that, you know, this idea that he constructed the pyramid of Maidum, which the outer layers somehow collapsed. And with at least the pyramid of Maidum, there's these substructures and structures that are under the ground that people have questioned. Okay, are these really 2600, 2700 BC during the time of Senefru? Or do some of these – are some of these structures that aren't – that the outer structure is built on top of, are these even more ancient?

How far back in time do these really go? That's really like a specific niche of research that guys like Uncharted X or the Brothers of the Serpent will do. In fact, the Brothers of the Serpent, they gave a brilliant lecture on this the other day called Finished. I don't know if it's come out. They had a great lecture series called Unfinished, and now they have one called Finished, and it's analyzing pyramid construction. Danny had a great podcast with those guys in January. They are brilliant. And I'll call it right now. One day when the sun sets on the great Graham Hancocks, Randall Carlsons, like Robert Shock, Brothers of the Serpent, just they're

going to be some of the guys that rise up. Like on the, just, they're going to be some of the guys that, that rise up, you know, like on the next sunrise, they're going to be there. These are brilliant guys who really, really know a lot. And I feel like they take a very similar approach to me and they're very sober. So they gave a great presentation on, on, you know, the different layers of the Maidum pyramid and how some of these things might be older. And they are experts in just that little specific thing. You know, they're experts in a lot of things, but that specific thing in Egypt, they've really grown to know a lot about. So there's this contentionist idea that he's trying to build the perfect pyramid. It doesn't work out at Maidum. And then he tries again at the Bent Pyramid and the lower 60% of the pyramid is

built too steep. And the pyramid is going to be way too tall for them to one way or another, it's going to be way too tall for them to feasibly be able to do it. So they change the angle and it flattens out at the top. And then for some reason, it just isn't right. I don't know why. You know, the traditional, this way, this is another thing I think is really silly with Egyptology is they they explain it and they go the bent pyramid was not stable enough it was not well built the interior chambers um were unstable so they stopped so they stopped construction on it and they built the red pyramid um well the bent pyramid is a tourist attraction today, and millions of people walk inside of the Bent Pyramid every single day. And there's not really any reinforcement on the inside of it.

So how does that make sense in the Egyptological mind that this is a structure that is not stable, and yet at least 5,000 years later, it's a tourist site that millions of people walk through every day? Like, are they not worried about liability? It doesn't make any sense. I guess another thing that sort of traps the bent pyramid within a certain timeframe as well, which I finally got to see them. I was really looking forward to seeing them, are in what they call the burial chamber. What's really interesting about the burial chamber is that there's no sarcophagus in it. I have no idea how you explain that. A burial chamber without a sarcophagus? Yeah, they title it the burial chamber, which is the same thing they did in the Red Pyramid, but in neither of them was there

actually a sarcophagus found inside of it. How convenient or inconvenient, depending on how you look at it. It is truly bizarre. But the Bed Pyramid is kind of trapped in a certain timeframe because there are cedars of Lebanon that are built in, into the wall. And I finally got to see him in and on photos, these cedars look like there might be, you know, like four or five feet long. Cause you have no perception of how big these chambers are. These cedars are, are as, you know, 18 feet across, just like this room. And there's gotta be a dozen of them or so. And they look like they are a stand to a platform. There's once a wooden platform on top of it. These cedars of Lebanon are built into the wall, and there's no way to get them inside of the pyramid other than

when the pyramid was being constructed, they were laid in and then they built the rest of the pyramid on top of it. When you carbon date those, um, those cedars, they're about 4,700 BC. So, you know, it kind of has locked the pyramid into a certain timeframe and there's not, there's not a way around that. Um, it's just, it's not, that's just, that's just the hard truth. And there's no possible way they could have been. No, no, no. They're giant cedars inside of the pyramid. And it's locked that pyramid in there. And that's something that a lot of YouTubers, you know, they know that their audience isn't going to love hearing that. And so they ignore that.

They're incentivized against it. It's a very, very real reality, a real concrete reality. And if you ever go visit the pent pyramid and you're honest with yourself, those cedars lock that pyramid into a certain date. But for some reason, the traditional Egyptological timeline says Senefru thought this one wasn't good enough, so they built the red pyramid, which is just a mile or so away. And then you go built the red pyramid, which is just, you know, a mile or so away. And then you go to the, then you go in the red pyramid, it's got three chambers with these huge granite stones lining the walls. But when you get to the final chamber, the entire floor is ripped out like 10 feet deep. And the reason that is, and that was done in modern times, like within the last 150 years, they ripped it all out because when they made their way back to the final chamber,

they didn't find a sarcophagus in there. It was a completely empty room. And they thought, okay, there's got to be another chamber nearby that's cut off. Let's, you know, they thought that maybe it was a trick, you know, that the Egyptians, they tricked tomb robbers into thinking that, you know, this was the whole pyramid and there's nothing else. So they start ripping up the floor and coring out the walls, and they expanded this chamber looking for any adjoining chambers, and they didn't. They never found anything. So this is this really strange area in Egyptology where you have these three pyramids attributed

to a pharaoh. Nowhere on the inside of the pyramids are there any hieroglyphs. There's no cartouches which a cartouche is like you know it's your signature it's your signature like when you sign a check that's your signature a cartouche is the sacred signature of a pharaoh only the pharaoh well you know later on in in egyptian civilization other people start getting cartouches which is not a good thing for egypt because other people start getting as powerful as the Pharaoh is. But really the Pharaoh has a cartouche and that's his sacred name. It's the sacred encircling of his name. And they don't find that anywhere in the pyramids.

How do you explain that? I don't know how you explain it. I don't know if you do. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe one day it will be explained. But it's this huge, huge blind spot in Egyptology that Egyptologists can't explain. It's never been properly explained. And I've really never seen it addressed. Like I've never seen a bonafide Egyptologist get on a YouTube video and say, here's why there's no hieroglyphs inside the pyramids when they're all around the pyramid complex. Well, aliens didn't use hieroglyphics. That's probably true. Well, actually, and some people like to say they did.

But they didn't like them in their pyramids. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. They're like, we want plain pyramids. We want them just straight up to the sky. No hieroglyphics. No bullshit. That's graffiti.

It's tacky, right? Yeah, it's very tacky. You don't want it inside the pyramid. You don't want that. How far back do hieroglyphics go, by the way? Do we know? About 3200 BC, 3300 BC. Up in the eastern mountains in southern Egypt, they found these hieroglyphs that show a scorpion.

And they think that it is the earliest depictions of a pharaoh's cartouche and so you know the movie scorpion king with the rock i was just gonna say 2002 michael clark duncan the rock i'm in baby um that's what it that the scorpion king the name for that comes from egypt the movies have nothing to do with the scorpion king uh the real scorpion king of egypt and really yeah it's sad right that movie they're not even based in Egypt. The first Scorpion King isn't even based in Egypt. It's in the Middle East somewhere like modern-day Israel. It was a better ambiance.

I guess so. Better background. I guess so. I don't know. These are semantics. Yeah. All right? You got to just have fun.

I'm working on a movie review series for my YouTube. I did a review on only ancient history movies. This is going to be called Big Screen History. And then I'm working on another one right now reviewing like bad movies, which I might just scrap Big Screen Histories. But there's a series I'm working on for bad historical movies based in ancient history called Historical. And I do the score. Like Deplorable? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah or horrible history or history

horrible you know historical and so uh and so i do a review of of the scorpion king and it's just like me being astonished at how much it has absolutely nothing to do with that it's a great movie sure sure it's a good movie it's a great movie. It is. It's an enjoyable movie. So around 3200, 3300 BC, up in the mountains, we see some, you know, petroglyphs that we think are like the earliest form of hieroglyphs. The reason we think hieroglyphs are even formed is because society is getting so big that you need a way to keep track of things. You need a way to... There's civil court cases that come up, and we have court cases from ancient Egypt. We know that the tomb builders were also the tomb robbers because of court cases that we found on papyri. Court cases.

Yeah, where people are being tried and convicted for crimes against the pharaoh or other important people, because these were people who were employed by day. They were tomb builders and by night they robbed the tombs that they built because they knew how to do it. What does an Egyptian court in 3200 BC look like? Oh, well, I mean, we don't know. We don't know. The papyrus I'm talking about, those don't go back to 3200 BC. But it goes back far. How far? You know, the height of papyri that we see, where we have so much of it that we're able to fully translate Egyptian hieroglyphs is during the Middle Kingdom. We're getting close to the Middle Kingdom going through our chronology.

The Middle Kingdom begins in 1850 BC and ends within a couple hundred years, two to three hundred years after that. Um, and that's really the height of literature. Like we have, um, we have lots of these really wonderful stories that come out of, come out of Egypt. They're called laments. And, uh, and it's just these people writing about their own lives. And there's, there's, there's, there's a story about a guy who's suicidal and he's, uh, you know, he basically writes this kind of poem where he's arguing with his soul. So you have your Ka and then you have your Ba. And it's like, one of them is your double vital essence. And he's like

arguing with his own soul. And your soul is kind of what pulls you into the next world. And you don't want your soul to leave you. And it's a different being entirely. And he's like arguing with himself. He's basically saying, I'm so sad. I want to kill myself. And his ka says, no, you can't do that because if you do, I won't stay with you. I won't join you into the next world. And so, you know, he eventually talks himself into not killing himself. And so you have this height of writing for some reason in the Middle Kingdom. And there's a lot of papyrus, you knowus during this time that Egyptologists haven't learned to read. And so it's really kind of at its height. It's really kind of at its height in the Middle Kingdom, and it reaches new heights in the New Kingdom. But you gotta think, the language changes

over time. Have you ever heard of people speaking Old English from a thousand years ago, and it's literally a different language? It's literally, yeah. That happened to the Egyptians. You know, there were Egyptians living during the time of Cleopatra that could not read Old Kingdom Egyptian hieroglyphs. The language, you know, the spoken language, for sure, I mean, as languages do, even though we don't have proof of it, Nobody can verbally speak old ancient Egyptian anymore. So the language, the spoken language changes and the written language changes over time,

but we can really read a lot of stuff from the Middle Kingdom. So anyways, yeah, it just evolves over time. So getting back to Senefru. So Senefru builds his red pyramid and that is actually the first great pyramid, you know, according to the traditional timeline. Now we're in a gray area where even I should preface everything by saying, I don't know. You know, it just, I just don't know. Even when you're studying things that are nearly 5,000 years old, at least, you have to, it's important to have an appreciation for how long 1,000 years is, okay? And you can really only get there by spending a significant amount of time with history and studying it because you can spend so much time studying things that happened over one century, and you go, times 10? Oh my God. Think about if you were to spend 10 years studying the span of history over

100 years you would really get an idea of how long 100 years is you multiply that by 10 it's insane multiply it by 47 and that's how far we are removed from you know the the youngest date of the great pyramid and you were telling me last night something like there being this 27 000 year record of pharaohs that a lot of historians ignore that it could go back like that far. How do we know that? Well, yeah, historians ignore it and you're kind of alternative history researchers like ancient history YouTubers. They both ignore it because I think it conflicts with both of their ideas, right? How so?

So academics, you know, they brush off the 27,000-year king's list as being – you know, so the Egyptians, they have these long king's lists. There's one – I believe it's the – can we look up the Palermo Stone? So just so I know that I'm right. Spelled like Palermo in Sicily? Yeah, yeah. P-A-L-E-R-M-O. Yeah. So the Palermo stone, Egypt. I want to say it's, it's yeah. Yeah. So this is, uh, one of the examples of a King's list. Uh, can you read that description? Let's see. Which one right here at the Palermo stone is one of seven surviving fragments of steel known as Royal Annals of the Old Kingdom of Ancient Egypt. The steel contained a list of the kings of Egypt from the first dynasty through to the early

part of the fifth dynasty and noted significant events in each year of their reigns. Sure. So this one goes from the first dynasty through what, the fifth dynasty? Well, it's the old kingdom. This is documenting, you know, the time of the pyramid builders from the first dynasty to the end of the old kingdom, which we're getting to 2100 BC. There are other king's lists similar to this one that we find scattered in various places throughout Egypt. And you can only assume that they were in little places like museums, kind of like we were talking about. So this is the Palermo stone, very similar to the Narmer palace.

These small stones that commemorate things. You know, eventually we're going to get into these things called stele, which is this gigantic stone billboard where things are just carved up and down. You have the dream stele that was erected in between the paws of the Sphinx, and it's the first monument that actually recognizes the Israelites. There's a lot of really cool stuff here, but this is the origins of these stele, these giant stone billboards. And it's hard to find these things and we kind of find them in some places. So there are other similar stones like this that have these Kings lists that go back 27,000 years. And so the, um, the reality of it

is interpreted. I don't know. sometimes it's interpreted in a certain way, and sometimes it's just ignored. But let's say academics, they view it as, you know, it just has to do with their mythology. It's not real. There's no significance to it. It just has something to do with their mythology, and, you know, we have to take it with a grain of salt. Mostly just ignore it. Let's only consider the the hard archaeological evidence does that make sense yes the youtube um you know i should say you know there's this uh what is it called like the youtube archaeology wars that's what uh that's what was said on the joe rogan podcast i think that's what it is you know so you have this battle right now that's happening basically since the since the big debate um and so uh you know ancient history youtubers that you know kind of want to sell

you know i mean you're making money doing it of course they do you're selling something right and there's a difference between doing it hyper honestly and you know really trying to uh trying to teach your audience things that they want to know, right? Which probably isn't a great formula for being an honest person. They kind of ignore the king's list because what the king's list does is it shows that dynastic Egyptians were acknowledging their own history going back, maybe not necessarily exactly 27,000 years and the reigns that they attribute to these certain Kings, like some Kings rule for 15,000 years, you know, obviously you don't take that part seriously, but what it's

indicating is that these people, however limited their own understanding of their ancient history is are telling you that their history goes back really really far yeah really far and they're telling you that it is their bloodline it is egyptians that have lived in this land for this long it is telling you that however there are people you know with this idea that no no, no, no, no, no. It's all in everyone's YouTube comments about when we talk about the pyramids. The Egyptians did not do this. It was a previous civilization. The Egyptians had nothing to do with it. Dude, we have bodies of Egyptians in the Cairo Museum of people who were alive 30,000 years ago. And you test their DNA and they are Egyptian the same way people 4,000 years ago were Egyptians.

It's the Egyptians telling you that their history is very ancient, however limited or advanced their understanding of it was. They get to a point, it's kind of like where we were talking about how in recent history, you can document all these things. And then the further you get it starts to go you start getting these big leaps of time that's what they do with their

king's list it's like you know for the from the fifth dynasty up to the first dynasty it's you know it's a very clear documentation of what's happening then you get beyond narmer the first pharaoh and then it starts to take leaps through history and because you know it was a very long time ago especially especially for them, especially when during this time period, humanity is beginning to formulate how to record history. So you have these tales that are brought down and they probably have artifacts from these very, very remote time periods where they knew the context of it, but it's lost to us today. But what they are doing is conveying to eternity. They're speaking to us from the past and telling us,

this is how far back my history goes. They may not be exactly right about how long the certain little periods were. They're telling us it goes back a tremendously long way. But if pharaohs go back 27,000 that is the if that's true the ramifications of that historically could be insane sure i mean you're talking about living through both terrible physiological effects like the younger dryas period or something like that to also fucking up timelines of all the ancient religious texts sure everything and what we know about world history to be. Sure. And even, you know, we see it as, okay, so that's 27,000 years before 4,000 years ago. So that's 31,000 years ago. All right. Let's say that in, let's say, you know, we're looking at 2500 BC. Let's say they're off by 20,000 years. And really their history only goes back 7,000 years earlier. That, very, very long history and that these are the people of this land.

And so the reason that I take problem with wiping the Egyptians away and saying, no, no, no, it was a completely different civilization. There's a number of reasons that there's an issue with that. One is that logically, you have now created an even harder argument for yourself. If you actually want to figure out the answer, you've now made it even harder for yourself because you have now created a new civilization. And the only evidence you have for that are pyramids and big monuments. Where's all the other evidence? Like surely they had – surely these people had bodies, right? Surely if it's a different civilization, there are different race of people and not to get into like a racial thing. But I mean it would have to be a different race of people with different DNA.

We don't have those. We don't have that DNA. And then they could go, well, you know, maybe they buried themselves in a different way. Maybe they're cremated. You know, maybe they don't have burials. Okay. What about their trash? Oh, well, you know, maybe they deposited trash in a different way than we understand.

Okay. What about all their buildings that they would have lived in oh well you don't really have an answer for that because you got to be living somewhere we have we have ancient egyptian buildings but they're egyptian buildings um and then you just get to a point where you have to go where you have to to continue this idea that it was people who were not egyptians doing it you have to get to a point where you go, okay, well, maybe they, okay, well, maybe they, okay, well, maybe that you have to get, you have to do that dozens and you have to do it hundreds of times to keep this idea going. How many times do you have to do it before you, before you're okay, maybe they becomes,

okay, maybe they really did build it. And maybe we're wrong. Yeah. Maybe they really did build it in a way that we still can't explain. Because after all of that, you still have to explain how the hell did they do this? None of that explains, like the question is still there. Like I was saying, it's a question of not timeline really, but it's a question of technology. And by constantly attributing this to a different civilization, I think we're not even really getting close to answering the actual question, which is the mystery of how they did it because it's still there. You know, the statues, the amazing statues still exist. The amazing monuments still exist.

It's all still there. We haven't even begun to answer the question of how they did it because we're ignoring the people who did it by attributing to a different civilization when the egyptians tell us their civilization goes back 27 000 years so you have both sides ignoring this you know to meet an end right did you talk to landa chem about this uh you know we only hung out for maybe like three days and so we had in those three days you didn't bring this up once no i because there's so many other things there's so many other things to talk about. What's his theory? Can you explain that to people?

Well, gosh. His theory is that the Egyptians were using pyramids as chemical processing plants and that they were making certain chemicals like fertilizer for wheat and barley fields, which I certainly like that, right? Because it is complementing who the Egyptians are as a people. Their civilization is built on the back of wheat and barley, of selling grain. So, okay, you come up with an alternate idea of how they can further be able to do this. And, you know, like he has an idea of one of these places may be a place where they make the blue paint that they're so famous for. I'm not an expert in his theory, but I certainly like his alternative theories. I think more than I like anybody else's because –

Why? Because it's a compliment to who the Egyptians were as a people. The pyramids are only two – they're only one of two things. Well, maybe it's three things, but it's either a tomb or it's either partly a tomb and it's something else or it's something that directly benefits the people of Egypt. Maybe it's all three at the same time. in antiquity, so many different civilizations who had no relation to each other that we can find built structures that were of this pyramid type. Sure. Sure. Built. Um, so the most, um, the most obvious, I mean, you have, you have structures throughout the world that are kind of pyramidal shape, I guess, or like the foundation of it is literally a pyramid that starts wider at the base and get narrowed towards the top.

But really it's Egypt and Mesoamerica, really Egypt and the Maya. And why they're so similar, it's either – it's one of two things. It's either an idea that is carried down through the ages. Actually, North American natives had pyramids too, but they're made out of earth. They're made out of packed clay earth. But had you seen them 3,000, 4,000 years ago, 9,000 years ago, you would have been very impressed. They seem like they're not so impressive now because this is like this slump, this sad slump of what once was. But they used to have four angles and like a flat top and they were these giant pyramids. handing down and it disseminates throughout the it disseminates throughout the planet um or you know the boring answer is that it doesn't really matter where you put ants on the planet they will build ant mounts you know it just ends up happening or aliens teach them how to do or aliens or aliens i know i'm i'm getting closer to that i know yeah i'm gonna just tap tap tap push you there so that's that's kind of what i think now here if we're gonna if we connect you

know the two most iconic places where pyramids are built on the planet ancient mesoamerica mexico guatemala honduras el salvador that's going to be the next podcast yeah if we if we're going to be drawing connections between you know two most iconic places mesoamerica and Egypt, in Mesoamerica, all the pyramids are tombs. All of them. Without a doubt, every single pyramid in Mesoamerica is a tomb. So it's kind of like one of those things where it's like – I'll talk to people and be like, well, if you want to go down this way, you might be disappointed to find out that the ones in Mesoamerica are all tombs. But maybe they weren't tombs first. They weren't tombs first. They were actually places that you lived on top of it. And we'll get into this, but I should say it now. You lived on top

of this pyramid. And then say your dad is a very wealthy Mesoamerican and he lived on top of an elevated platform and say it's 25 meters tall. And that's where he lives. And he has these stone walls that make up his little house that's on top of it. Well, when he dies, he gives you all of his inheritance. And those little rooms that he lived in with your mother, you take all of the stuff that's important to them. You put them inside the room, you bury them on their, on their beds and you turn their palace into a tomb. Does that make sense? You close in all the walls and you build boom, another pyramid on top of it. And on top of that pyramid, you lay a new platform that's even bigger. And that's your

palace where you and your wife will live, where your children will bury you there and turn your palace into a tomb. I see. That didn't go where I thought it was going. Okay. Where'd you think it was going? I thought it was going to be something a little deeper than just like living quarters, but I got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, there are pyramids in Mesoamerica where the whole thing was always intended to be a tomb. I mean, like, it made headlines when Albert Ruiz in, I think, 1953 or 1956, he discovered this entrance into a tomb. And we'll get into this too, but it's called Pakal's Tomb, the Temple of Inscriptions

or the Pyramid of Inscriptions at the city of palenque and he pulled up this floor thing that was at the top of the pyramid and it was the staircase that went down one way and then went down the other and there's this giant tomb with a huge megalithic sarcophagus that's it would fill up this the size of the sarcophagus would fill up this room um and that whole pyramid was only built to be that so you know um know, um, I understand like the, the, the questioning, the similarity thing, but then when you get to it, well, it's like, those are tombs, you know? So, you know, and, and I don't feel one way or the other about it or prefer one thing or the other. Uh, I just try to be honest with, with people when they ask, cause people deserve to be told

the truth. A hundred percent, man. Okay. Are we on the part of, are we getting to the part of the timeline where we talk about Rome? Or we still got more? We are about 30% into Egyptian history. Where are we at? Yeah, we're coming up on – all right. What's next? And then let me process this in my head because now I got to think about how I'm flipping this into the next episode at some point here. Can I pee real quick? Yeah, go to the – yeah, we'll take a quick break. Okay. Thank you guys for watching the episode.

Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory Podcast or also on my personal page at Julian D Dory. Both links are in the description below. Finally, if you'd like to catch up on our latest episodes, use the Julian Dory podcast playlist link in the description below. Thank you.