Julian Dorey Podcast - #273 - Pentagon UFO Expert is Building a Bunker in Wyoming | Luis Elizondo

Starting point is 00:00:00 Can't say what this is. Okay. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Imagine if I release that. A lot of tea right here. That is not what I was expecting to see. I don't know if this is kosher to talk about on air, but, I mean, we can start in a second if it's not, but you're building a bunker out there in Wyoming?

Starting point is 00:00:37 You know, the rule to Fight Club is you never talk about Fight Club. So if you're building a bunker, you don't tell people because then everybody knows where to go when everything goes south. So – but it would be remiss of me to not say that I think people – look, being prepared is not a bad thing. Now, being paranoid, maybe. A bunker feels a little paranoid, Lou. Well, look, there's an old saying, right? Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. What is a bunker?

Starting point is 00:01:08 I mean, we hear all about these billionaire bunkers. Last I checked, though, the Pentagon doesn't pay billionaire contracts to its employees. No, it does not. So what does your bunker look like, like allegedly? Allegedly. So how about this? Let's say in general terms, if you want a bunker. And by the way, it's not just for you know end of the world situations it could be for things environmental

Starting point is 00:01:30 like even tornadoes right we have a lot of tornadoes out in wyoming so um and people who live in florida will say yeah we have these hurricanes winds get to 110 you know category one category two storm maybe once every 10 15 years in florida this is like almost every other weekend where i live in wyoming we have winds it's not uncommon to have a 90 mile an hour wind or 100 mile an hour gust of wind so so homes have to be built a certain way they just will not survive the environment so if you have for example a tornado rolling through um you know maybe you want to use the bunker for that just in case right so um a lot of people out there in wyoming are there for several reasons a lot of people just want to disappear and out in wyoming we're

Starting point is 00:02:11 a constitutional state so you can build whatever you want on your property and so yeah people build bunkers and typically what you want in there is um enough rations and food and water right that that can can sustain you for a prolonged period of time now how long that is depends on the size of your bunker and whatnot. You also need ventilation. You know, people think, oh, I'm just going to seal myself underground. Well, you just built a coffin. Congratulations. It's not going to do you very much good. You also want medicine. And you also, when I say medicine, everything from antibiotics to how to do field expedient surgery, you know, pain medication, if you need it, everything you would need to sustain yourself.

Starting point is 00:02:48 If you didn't have any type of medical resource or communications or food or any other type of logistics, you have to be able to survive by yourself. And now, if you go back 100 years in human history, most people knew how to do that automatically. They were scratching out a living on the land and whatnot, if they were living in a rural community and it's not a big deal. But nowadays, a lot of people have forgot, you know, what it takes to survive a situation. They're too busy tweeting. Yeah. And other things, you know, and I think some of these skill sets have been lost. You know, how do you tie a tourniquet? When do you tie a tourniquet, right?

Starting point is 00:03:27 Under what circumstances? Look, we've got snakes out there. You know, people can get bit by rattlesnakes. What do you do, right? Let's say it's 11 o'clock at night. You're walking out to your horse stable barn and you get bit. You know, a hospital might be 40, 50 miles away. 40, 50 miles away?

Starting point is 00:03:44 Yeah, I mean, not in my case, but in some cases, yeah. I mean, people live off the grid way out there. So what are you going to do? And if there's a snowstorm, ambulances can't get there. Do they even have cops out there? We do. Actually, you know what? I got to tell you, Julian, I got a buddy of mine.

Starting point is 00:03:59 He was a cop in Baltimore when I was still fed. And long story short, we went out to Wyoming a few years later and he was there. We met him there and he retired immediately after coming out to Wyoming and is now the chief of police in my small hometown. Super, super guy. And this is – Baltimore to Wyoming. Yeah. I mean, right. Talk about a change, right? Yeah. and is now the chief of police in my small hometown super super guy and and you know this is baltimore to wyoming yeah i mean right talk about a change right yeah um you know some may argue that it's you know maybe not as exciting but you've probably extended your lifespan a little bit yeah i guess you i guess you go from like street drug stops to like potential i don't know

Starting point is 00:04:42 oligarch families building bunkers under the ground not you but you know yeah other people doing crazy shit out there in the wilderness look it's uh it's it they call it god's country for for a reason it is really amazing i mean you have yellowstone you have devil's tower out there you've got the crow nation out there you've got these beautiful beautiful mountain ranges uh that are just stunning um Everything you would have, like, for example, if you're a skier, we've got ski resorts pretty much in all the mountain towns. Oh, yeah. And it's cheap.

Starting point is 00:05:11 It's not expensive. And it's a constitutional state. And, you know, our crime rate's low. And people are actually friendly there. People will say, well, Wyoming is not very diverse, is it? How do you feel as a Cuban? I'm like, look, guys, we are the state literally of black cowboys and white rappers so we are extremely diverse you know it's um i think people have a misnomer about what wyoming is about uh it's a wonderful wonderful place i i will never leave

Starting point is 00:05:37 that place yes i might wind up traveling a lot but never brother it's incredible come on out you'll see it i yeah i will but i'm just saying you say never like you're not angling for a little dc-er job in the new administration i'm just saying i i don't know if you're building a bunker in dc it's it's gotta be a little harder there you know more regulations we call that the pentagon actually um it's uh it it's a great place to be. If you guys ever want to come out, it really is. Sometimes people come out and visit me. And it hasn't been only one time someone has actually bought property after visiting us. I've heard people go out there and they fall in love and they don't want to leave. I've heard that story. Wyoming, Montana, all these different places. And I've never been, but you just see the pictures and how grand and

Starting point is 00:06:28 beautiful it is, especially in like the post COVID era and everything where people are like, let me get the fuck out of the city. It's not uncommon to go through a drive-through and see two people on a horseback going through the drive-through and ordering. That's right. Some next level. Yeah. I mean, it's like wow we are not in kansas anymore right no pun intended yeah and you got a bar downstairs too you're showing i do i do um you know those winters get cold right so you know you need something to keep you warm at night i i made the mistake a long time ago when i so look i had every every crap job you can imagine growing up as a kid so every job that nobody wanted to do, I did. So whether it's construction and roofing and HVAC and bouncer and, you know, whatever, every crap job you could have, I had it.

Starting point is 00:07:10 And so I made the mistake when I first met my wife, letting her know that, you know, it's a little handy. I could do plumbing and electrical. And so now anytime anything needs to be done, I get stuck doing it. And so. That's how it goes. Yeah. So my wife was like, you know, I'd love anish bar down here in the basement oh it was your wife's idea yeah so i was like yeah that would be great she's like jen partying up in here you know what she uh

Starting point is 00:07:36 well it really it really turned out really nice and uh turned out really bougie and some friends of ours took the idea and decided to create an English pub in their entire basement. So I have like one room. That's a bar buddy. Mine turned the, he actually runs security for me, actually turned the entire half of his basement into a huge, he's got like a dart alley. He's got these secret door, like a speakeasy. It is the coolest thing. It's all done in English tutor style and he did it himself. Right? So that's the one thing about Wyoming. If you want to get work done out there, unless you live in Jackson, you might have to wait a while to get some talent to come in to do specialized work. So you're kind of stuck doing it yourself.

Starting point is 00:08:12 So, yeah, I built an Irish pub in our basement. Yeah, we're going to have to check that out at some point. But I don't want to get off the buried lead here about the move back east to D.C. What is happening? We've got a new administration in here apparently allegedly they're taking the whole thread in our skies thing a little more seriously than say some past administrations including i guess the past one that trump had so what's what's going on i know you don't want to reveal all the behind the scenes things because i know there's

Starting point is 00:08:41 some professional aspects of that but you know are are you are you getting a role here what are we doing i uh look first of all if my if my country asked me to serve again i will um those decisions aren't mine to make um are there people out there that might be more qualified than me to assume certain roles i hope so yeah i'll go work for them i have no problem doing that um there are people in this new administration that are much much more proactive on this topic of uap and air domain awareness if there's one thing i've been trying to tell people for the last seven years uap aside we have no clue what's in our skies we don't and we just saw a horrible horrible tragedy two of them uh one possibly because we did not have complete air domain awareness.

Starting point is 00:09:28 We had a helicopter crashing with a little regional jet and lost a lot of lives because of it. So that's problematic. We simply do not know everything that's in our skies, whether it's drones and Chinese balloons or UAP or even helicopters. So we need to do something. If you look at what Tulsi Gabbard, who is now being considered for the position of the Director of National Intelligence, which by the way, she has my full vote of confidence.

Starting point is 00:09:55 She's incredibly smart, also a veteran and served her nation honorably. And then of course was a representative in Congress, right? So very, very, very achieved woman. And she's now be considered for the director of national intelligence. She said that one of the very first things she's going to do as the DNI is look into these drone and UAP issues. Now, this is potentially a cabinet level position that she is now saying for the record, these are going to be some of our priorities. You also have RFK Jr.

Starting point is 00:10:25 that's had a long history in this topic and wants increased transparency. He has a long history in this topic? He does. I'm less aware of that. Yeah. What's the story there? You know, you'd have to ask him.

Starting point is 00:10:36 Okay. You know, I tend to... We'll get him in here right after you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You also have people like Marco Rubio, who was on the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence, who sissy who's now Secretary of State, right? Who's going to be.

Starting point is 00:10:49 And then you've got other individuals. Ratcliffe, who is now the director of CIA, who's already said for the record that, yeah, it looks like UAP, whatever they are, are real. We've got to figure these things out. So you've got folks like Don Jr., who have been really, really championing the idea of transparency for the American people. Now, I want to say something here because people are going to say, oh, lose a Trump lover. Look, I love anybody who's willing to make a difference, a positive difference for this nation. I don't give a damn if you're a Democrat or Republican or anything in between. What I care about is can you walk the walk when the time comes are you willing to do

Starting point is 00:11:26 what's necessary and i think we're seeing that we're seeing a lot of changes here so again politics aside because people will sit there and accuse me of all sorts of things they think oh he's a he's a magnet as well oh yeah it's crazy the bottom line is the proof is in the pudding can you make the changes that you said you're going to make? And we're beginning to see some of those changes. Now, are there other candidates on the Democratic side who've done the same? Yeah, of course. There were some great presidents as well. Buffalo!

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Starting point is 00:13:03 have their challenges, right? It's up to us as the American people to let the administration know what our priorities are. And also Congress, right? If you don't like the person – there's an old saying that bad people or bad politicians are voted in by good people who don't vote, right? If you don't like it, then look in the mirror. I don't have to tell you. I didn't like it, so I didn't vote. Well, okay. There's the result.

Starting point is 00:13:26 So I'm extremely optimistic about this new administration. They seem very proactive, very serious about transparency and getting to the bottom of this. Again, politics aside, if you follow the UAP topic, you'll see that I think we are postured like we have never been before for true transparency with the American people. So with Tulsi though, to go back to that one. So she's nominated – we're recording this on Sunday. This is going to come out on Friday I believe. So I don't think she's confirmed yet. She's not confirmed yet.

Starting point is 00:13:58 Right. But that would apparently happen this week. But she – as DNI, for people out there who are less familiar with i guess the organizational structure of government can you just explain the full scope of that obviously she has full oversight of all intelligence agencies but how much does that mean that she's they can read her into everything versus like keep things hidden within each agency well theory and reality are two different things okay in theory she should be a super user, be right onto everything, both title 15, title 10 programs.

Starting point is 00:14:29 So covered action, clandestine, everything in between. The reality is that doesn't always occur. And so that's a problem. That's a dysfunction of the system. Now, if you want to, for people who don't understand what the DNI is, everybody knows who the director of the CIA, right?

Starting point is 00:14:41 What they do. But the DNI position is kind of a new position. And it really, it didn't start until probably the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004, I believe, that established the position of a DNI. So why do we need a DNI? What does it do? And so you need to really look back like 80 years in American history to understand how this all precipitated. After World War II, right on the heels of World War II, Congress realized that after looking at the lessons learned of World War II, that there was some dysfunction in our national security. So they created the National Security Act of 1947 that really established your Secretary of War, which now we call Secretary of Defense, and basically says, okay,

Starting point is 00:15:26 whereas before during World War II, maybe the person who's running the Navy operations in the Pacific isn't really coordinating with Army guy who's running the ground operations in the Philippines, right? So there's a disconnect there. We need kind of a daddy bear or a mommy bear to honcho and coordinate all these efforts.

Starting point is 00:15:42 And over time, you had the services, Army and Navy and Air Force, later on becoming from Army Air Corps to Air Force. And it started to work. We started realizing, okay, now we're becoming more functional as a government, military, and national security apparatus. So what happens 50-some years later, 9-11? And all of a sudden, we realized, crap, we had a huge intelligence failure.

Starting point is 00:16:05 CIA and FBI both had pieces of information and Department of Defense also had information, but they weren't sharing it. And as a result, 9-11 happened. And it was part of the 9-11 commission reports that Congress had commissioned to say, what failed? How did this happen? So they realized we need to do the same thing with the intelligence community as we did with the Department of Defense and our national security apparatus. And we're going to create a daddy bear or a mommy bear, if you will, a head honcho for intelligence. And so we create this position called the Director of National Intelligence that is basically going to be the ringleader of all these 17 organizations in the intelligence community. People don't know,

Starting point is 00:16:43 there's a lot of organizations out there that do intelligence. It's not just the military. It's not just the CIA. It's not just the FBI. Who else? NGA, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. NRO, National Reconnaissance Office. NSA, National Security Agency. All these organizations

Starting point is 00:16:59 that have their own intelligence mission. And so you need somebody that can coordinate all of these on behalf of the nation and then report directly to the president. So this is the position that Tulsi Gabbard has gone through these hoops to be considered and Senate confirmed. It's not easy. I mean, you are responsible.

Starting point is 00:17:21 If anything goes wrong, you're responsible, right? So you need the best and brightest. And so goes wrong, you're responsible, right? So you need the best and brightest. And so that's why you have this creation of the DNI. And in theory, she should be read onto everything. The reality is, operationally speaking, there's not enough time in the day. There's so many programs that are out there. It's like, look, I'm going to hire people, managers, like for example, we call them national intelligence managers, NIMS. So you have different, if you will, bubba's and bubba's that work for the DNI, managing certain functional areas like NIM aviation or maritime domain awareness and

Starting point is 00:17:57 the national intelligence manager for, you know, fill in the blank, China or whatever you want. And they, in theory, should be right onto everything as well within their portfolios and then bring that information up to the DNI. So then that he or she can then inform the president. And so that's really, I know it's a long-winded way to explain what is the DNI, but if you really want to answer, you really need to start 70 years ago to have that conversation with people and say, oh, now I see why we have a D&I. What makes you like Tulsi for that position so much? Oh my gosh. Well, I'm always, you've probably realized by now, I'm not a kiss and tell kind

Starting point is 00:18:36 of guy. I don't like explaining to people who I know, who I've talked to. So let's just look at it at face value. She's a veteran. She has been on both sides, both Democrat and Republican, right? And people criticize her for that. I think it's great. Look, when facts change, what happens? I change my mind, right? And that's okay. You know, you're not stuck and wedded to a particular allegiance of a political party just because you feel obligated. Look, we're human beings and if situations changes – and a lot of people are also politically fluid. They're kind of in the moderate middle, right? And maybe they're socially liberal but fiscally conservative and whatnot. So, you know, I think it's dangerous to pigeonhole people.

Starting point is 00:19:23 And Tulsi has been one of those people who have told people, look, I don't agree with certain politics and policies. And I think from a national security perspective, we need to do this. She's been there and done that. She's a highly decorated military officer, lieutenant colonel. So she's no dummy. And by the way, in a system, an ecosystem, military system, that really has not been very good to females. That's fact. It's true. Look, they can tell you, oh, we're been very good to females. That's fact. It's true.

Starting point is 00:19:46 Look, they can tell you, oh, we're all equal now and all. That's horse crap. It's not. Women are still not given the same, even though we like to think they are, they're not given the same advantages and opportunities that their male counterparts are. In the military. In the military, unfortunately. And there's a lot of sexual harassment.

Starting point is 00:20:04 So if you want to survive the military, you really got to be, be a hardcore sister to do it. I mean, you got it. You got to have your shit straight. And then on top of that, she entered the world of politics and became a Congresswoman. Right. And then after that still becomes an advocate trying to, to help her country long before she was ever considered for a position of DNI, she was still trying to make a difference. So I try to look at someone's heart as much as I can.

Starting point is 00:20:26 People say, ah, she's a Russian sympathizer. First of all, you don't know that. You're getting that crap from some sort of mainstream media outlet that's an echo chamber giving you the information that you want to hear. So before you jump to conclusions, you know, I always recommend know the person you're talking about, right? Yeah. And break bread with them.

Starting point is 00:20:43 Look them in the eye. And then if you have that same opinion, great. But give them an opportunity. Don't just, well, I read an article that says someone is someone and they're doing this with Russia. Well, you know, there's also a lot of misinformation out there and ask me how I know, because I face it all the time. So, you know, my recommendation to people is give somebody a break, give them the benefit of the doubt, you know, listen to their words and their actions and see where that takes you. And if at the end of the day you still feel that way, then okay.

Starting point is 00:21:08 But at least you've done your due diligence. That's all I'm asking. So I think Tulsi has got tremendous potential. I've always been an advocate to see her go where she wants to go how long have you known her uh you know what i um that's a question you probably need to ask her i don't even even to say no right how long have i known of her or how long have i as you were saying you know i don't i don't want to you don't want to call someone a friend if like you've talked with them a few times yeah right exactly because you know my definition of friend may be a different definition than you have right yes you know uh

Starting point is 00:21:48 there's a lot of people who throw around names and act like they went to college with them yeah right no i did not go to college with tulsi or rfk or any of these folks um but i have seen enough um from the periphery to to have my own opinion sure. And, you know, I think she is a very qualified candidate. And again, I know people are going to be all pissed off at me and I'm not following you anymore, Lou. You know, look, I don't know what to tell you. You know, have you been in the military? You know, you might have a different appreciation

Starting point is 00:22:19 for what she's had to endure. And I think, so anyways, that's how I'll answer that question. Yeah. So it's interesting to hear you breaking it down because you come from deep in the pentagon you come from what some people would look at on the internet and say oh is lou a part of the deep state or whatever right and tulsi i mean you took the words out of my mouth they were like thrown around this like russian asset thing with her starting back when she like ran in 2020, which to me, I never heard any evidence on that. It seemed totally ridiculous. But that was this tag that got put on her by, I don't know, the mainstream media, Hillary Clinton or political opponents or whatever.

Starting point is 00:22:56 It's a form of political cancellation. Yes. It's just like we have right now with this – the wokeness in our nation, which i do believe we should have fair opportunity for everybody but i don't believe in special privilege and and there's people that have been trying to to do the same thing by canceling individuals but do it politically right i call that administrative terrorism administrative terrorism by by writing little notes or little things or thing like for example someone tried to have my security clearance uh revote some time ago actually oh yeah i was under investigation and i wound up winning because it was completely

Starting point is 00:23:30 bs how do you win that i thought they could just do like i could just do that the president can but what happens is that for example there'll be an anonymous complaint sent through ig dod or cia or the intelligence community saying i saw lou um, I don't know, wear a pink tutu and combat boots and run around his house, you know, singing acapella. And, you know, just as an example. Quite a visual. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:57 Yikes. And then all of a sudden that anonymous complaint goes up. They look and say, hmm, is he mentally able to have and psychologically able to have a security clearance? Hmm, let's see here. And then they'll go ahead and they'll suspend your clearance. Then it's up to the person based upon a completely erroneous accusation to have to defend themselves. And that's hard because now you're defending yourself from a position where you're already kind of being accused as being guilty, right? It's not innocent until proven guilty. And this is after government service? Even after, yeah, if you have a security clearance, yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:27 And so I had to come back and basically read them the riot, actually. Look, guys, don't tell me about the law. I know what the law says. And here, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I helped write some of the policies for security clearances. And because of this section and this section and this section. You helped write some of the policy? Yeah, a long time.

Starting point is 00:24:41 It's not uncommon. Look, policy is very- It's not uncommon. That sounds like some- It's really not. We call them policy wonks or policy folks. It's really not a glamorous job. You promote yourself to the point out of the – you get promoted out of the field to the point where now you're what they call flying a desk, right? You get behind it. You're handling budgets now and – You're in your cigar era. Yeah, you trade in your 9mm for a pen. That's right. And that's what you do. So writing policy is something that's very important.

Starting point is 00:25:09 I had spent, I guess, a good portion of my life trying to figure out ways around policy. So they finally gave me – okay, you know where all the loopholes are, Lou? You're going to fix them, right? So I was – in several of my positions, I was the director of policy. So we wrote policy and drafted policy, coordinated policy on behalf of the department, the intelligence community, and security clearance is one of those. Wow. Among many other policies, like for example, polygraph examinations or policies on how we conduct counterintelligence under these circumstances, right? And so every government

Starting point is 00:25:38 organization uses policy for very specific reasons. don't understand how that's how the American government actually works and policy is really if you look at and this is actually kind of interesting I don't want to bore anybody in your audience but you're not boring me at all so keep going okay so let's let's take for example a law that Congress decides to pass Congress says we are going to pass a law that says XYZ and here Congress says, we are going to pass a law that says X, Y, Z, and here is an act, a congressional act, right? Like I said, National Security Act of 1947, or the CIA Enhancement Act of 2002, or the IRTPA of 2004, right? There's these acts that are passed

Starting point is 00:26:17 by Congress. Then it's up to the executive branch to pass directives, because remember, Congress's function is to make laws it's executive branches responsibility to enforce laws so to enforce those laws you have things like executive orders like executive order e012333 on united states intelligence activities you have all these orders maybe a national security directive an nsd that comes out then you have dod will put out their dod directive based upon an executive order. The CIA will put out what they used to call D-SCIDs, their old DCI directives for kind of enforcing that executive order until eventually get all the way down to the subordinate levels of like, for example, the army, where the army will say, well, okay, here here's dod directive 5240.1 we're kind of up with our army regulation uh 3d 112 3d 110 right on how we the army conducts intelligence activities and then you have all the way down to the unit level where they can't really write policy but they can write

Starting point is 00:27:16 what sops standing operating oh yeah so all those things start cascading down as a result of Congress passing a law. And people don't understand that, that policies are there to basically, how does my organization, my office, implement Congress's law and the president's desire? And that's why all these policies and rules and regulations are important, because that's how government works. You have to codify it in writing for it to be real. Otherwise, it's just hearsay. So there's a whole process to do that. And if you write the wrong policy, you can find yourself in a really bad situation because policy is basically the decree on how

Starting point is 00:27:56 we're going to do something as an organization. And if you have bad policy, then you can make bad decisions. Sure. Now, what does that look like though to go back to people trying to revoke your security clearance and you said like you have to come in and and defend yourself without revealing exact people or groups i need an attorney i had danny danny sheehan really had to be absolutely the old shit the old sheehan went in there he did and he he boy he read them the right act he put him up and down he's like, bring it on. And magically about a month later, oh, Lou, sorry. Guess what? Everything is fine.

Starting point is 00:28:29 You still have your TS security clearance and whatnot. Basically the Jesuit Illuminati went in there and took care of business. Yes, and it was a result of the admin terrorism that I was enduring and others, by the way, like me as well, who've come forward, decided to quote unquote, blow the whistle, have also had these type of things done to them. And so I knew that if I didn't make a stand to it, then they would steamroll me and other people and they would make an example out of me and other people then wouldn't want to come out and talk. So we fought it and we succeeded. What do you think the motives of the people who were trying to get that to happen?

Starting point is 00:29:06 What do you think those motives were? Oh, I know what they were. In fact, there was a comprehensive newspaper article on an individual. My mother used to say, I have nothing kind to say. Don't say it at all. But anybody can look it up. There was an article done, I believe, by the Debrief. And it was called Sex, Lies, and UFOs. And in there is a very comprehensive story

Starting point is 00:29:26 about how the government, particularly the Department of Defense, tried to conduct retribution on me. Yeah, that's it. As the Pentagon's Director for Defense Intelligence and a Senior Executive in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, OUSD,

Starting point is 00:29:44 Gary Reed was in charge of all counterintelligence, security, and law enforcement operations within the Department of Defense. This in addition to heading the Afghanistan Crisis Action Group, the office tasked with evacuating Afghan refugees during America's withdrawal from Afghanistan. Let's go down. Now, in an exclusive, the debrief has learned that Reid was recently dismissed from his responsibilities within the U.S. government before his ousting as Director of Defense Intelligence. So he was high up. Reid had been the subject of a nearly two-year-long investigation by the debrief, speaking on

Starting point is 00:30:11 the condition of anonymity. Multiple current and former Pentagon employees told the debrief Reid had engaged in wide-ranging misconduct and corruption for years. In the past four years, the DoD's Inspector General's Office had investigated Reid on numerous allegations, including maintaining a sexual relationship with a subordinate employee, sexual harassment, and fostering a hostile work environment. Actually, I see your name coming up right here. So in 2020, the IG office found that Reid had violated joint ethics regulations by creating an appearance of an inappropriate relationship or preferential treatment with a female subordinate and mishandling of controlled and classified information. I hope she was hot, dude.

Starting point is 00:30:50 Hope it was worth it in may 2021 reed was named in yet another former ig complaint this time involving former director of national program special management staff at ousd luis elizondo all right so all right i got you so this is the guy in the middle of some things that for whatever let me keep going no no no That's just what you can know. It's really about my, my involvement in ATIP. And so this is what, what caused this IG complaint. Um, and also a lot of my headaches. This is, this was the pivotal time when the Pentagon went from saying, yeah, ATIP was real. Lou ran it to all of a sudden this guy got butthurt. And so they started changing their tune before this, before this paper, this article came out, where they're like, oh, ATIP wasn't real and Lou had nothing to do with it, right? Well, even though we had all the receipts, we had the goods, we knew it. And so did Congress and so did everybody else. But it started there where they started lying about me.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Gotcha. So they changed the narrative. They tried to change the narrative. And they also tried to launch an investigation against my security clearance, which fortunately I won. Guys, it's that time of year again, we're one month into New Year's resolutions, which statistically is usually the time people have already given up on them. I know I've done that in the past. I'm sure you can relate. But today we're going to talk about a product that I've talked about before and that I've used for about five years now that will help you automatically keep a New Year's resolution. Let me explain that by first introducing today's sponsor, our friends over at Acorns. Acorns is a unique investment platform that allows you to invest either your spare change or whatever predetermined amount you want every day. You set

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Starting point is 00:32:57 the spare money you've got right now. It could be $5 or even just your spare change. So head on over to acorns.com slash Julian, or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. The link to that is down in the description below. Once again, that's acorns.com slash Julian, or download the Acorns app today. This is a paid client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier one compensation provided. Investing involves risk. Acorns advisors, LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. Do important disclosures at acorns.com slash Julian. Well, let's clear that up right now because this makes sense.

Starting point is 00:33:30 So basically people who were enemies, like maybe this guy within the Pentagon, had some reason or motive to say that we want Lou out of our way because they want to do something else. And over the years, one of the things that's been used where people will take a lot of your words and try to overlap them or twist them apart is when it comes to the OSAP AATIP thing. So let's clear that up right now. You, the way I understand it, you were brought into the program called AATIP at the ending days of what was OSAP. So you were not necessarily a part of OSAP. Is that fair to say? Think of OSAP as a big umbrella, right? And then think of OSAP as New Jersey and think of Hoboken as being AATIP. It's a smaller umbrella under a much bigger umbrella.

Starting point is 00:34:08 OSAP was investigating a lot of stuff. They had the skinwalker ranch that people know about and some other stuff they were doing. Not my place to really discuss because that wasn't really involved in the OSAP piece. Then you had this little umbrella called AATIP, which was really for my focus, nuts and bolts. You know, these are men and women in uniform flying aircraft that are coming up close and personal to these UAP. Sometimes we have to worry about, you know, air flight safety issues. That was my focus. And so AATIP, and then when OSAP ran out in 2012, the contract, AATIP continued. What does that mean it ran out?

Starting point is 00:34:42 So there was a five-year contract period. If you look at the original OSAP contract, it was for five years. So eight, nine, 10, 11, and 12. When that funding ran out, they needed more funding or the program went away. In this particular case, the program kind of went away. And what remained was AATIP, which we continued to run at the Office of the Secretary of Defense. defense and i ran that with my colleagues in my uh and i until about uh 2017 late 2000 excuse me uh approximately late 2017 and so that's kind of the history of of atip but there's been many articles since that have then uncovered a lot of stuff yeah that have actually shown some malfeasance by like what kinds of things well you know for example, my work, I had two jobs the last several years. I was part of AATIP

Starting point is 00:35:31 and I was also running, I can say, I guess, covert action. Okay. So I was running some very sensitive operations for the White House and the National Security Council. And there was some discussion there while we were doing what we're doing, um, that, uh, I'm trying to say how to keep myself from getting in trouble. Take your time. Yeah. Um, there was some concerns there that we had inside the department that there might have been some people that were not friendly to what we were doing um even though we were asked to do it and we were we had money and funding to

Starting point is 00:36:14 do it so in 2014 and 2013 after osap funding died we requested another 10 million dollars from then senate majority leader harry reid yes and it was approved the problem is is that the way that it was written for that for that funding because we didn't want to say uap and ufos we said uh isr intelligence surveillance reconnaissance of some sort of extreme uh futuristic potentially technology that conduct ISR on us, right? Right. And so what wound up happening is that the ISR task force, which was actually being run by a colleague of mine, assumed that money was from them for them. And so they took it.

Starting point is 00:36:56 Yeah. They can just do that. Well, when they outrank you, absolutely. So we were outvoted. And so I had to go back and have the conversation, very uncomfortable conversation with that person and say, look, that money was intended for us. And they're like, well, too late. You know, we took the money and we spent it on a bunch of academic studies and doing this. And then you take a gun out and hold it to their head and say, you're going to give it back, right? Well, not exactly. But it was a very frustrating time for us. So that's, you know, people say, well, you weren't funded. Yeah, we were.

Starting point is 00:37:32 And actually had other dual funding as well, sources. That's how we paid people. We had a lot of people on ATIP and contractors that were doing work for us. And we had academic studies done. But the problem is the government hasn't been fully honest about it. And then you have the issue where in my job running sensitive missions, there is a court order, uh, by the office of military commissions, OMC department of defense,

Starting point is 00:37:54 who's now handling the nine to the nine 11, the, you know, the nine 11 five, right? The fab five Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Ben Oshi, Ben Etash,

Starting point is 00:38:01 all those, those, those knuckleheads. Um, there is a court order preservation order place that said if you work any aspects of Guantanamo Bay, your emails and everything correspondence you write has to be preserved forever because it's considered evidence in a 9-11 trial, a military commission's trial. There were actually two of those orders that were put out. So the department knew that all my files needed to be maintained and retained and they didn't what happened is well it they said they didn't so what happened is about a year later there was a

Starting point is 00:38:34 foia uh request through the pentagon what year are we in uh 2019 maybe 20. And the Pentagon said, oh, we deleted all those files within a year. Everything. And you had an official role at Guantanamo. Yes. There was a nice little nickname for that role too. Just saying. Yeah. I'm sure if anybody had to listen to my audio book, they'd probably agree with that.

Starting point is 00:39:09 But it's very frustrating. So the government said, no, Pentagon said, no, no, we don't have any of his files. They're all gone. They're deleted. Knowing that that's where they're going to find everything, right, showing that AATIP was real and everything else. And then it wasn't for another couple years later when someone said, well, I've got this email in my hand dated 2017. And it's an email between Lou and another guy talking about the transfer of AATIP authorities and responsibilities. What do you say to that?

Starting point is 00:39:31 Who was the other guy? Or are you not allowed to say that? You know, if you do enough digging, you'll see exactly the email correspondence. And all of a sudden, the Pentagon said, oh, yeah, that email. You know what? We did find one, and they submitted it. But when they submitted it but when they submitted it they redacted the name atip so everything where i'm talking about atip and about the transfer of

Starting point is 00:39:50 authorities from me to another individual they redacted because they knew it went against their narrative where they told people no atip wasn't real well here's an email that's saying it was real right and by the way another senior official in the department of defense assuming responsibility oh by the way there's this conversation between none other than the secretary of defense's direct staff and lou alessandro and this other guy saying yes right so it was it was pretty uh it was kind of a kind of a cathartic moment for me yeah and then you know how does no one go down for deleting all those emails though by the way i mean that's that's a separate issue but that's like exactly my point you're lying to the american people and this is what drives me you want breaking the law you want damn right it is you want to know what what drives lou elizondo

Starting point is 00:40:34 it's that that is an abuse of power someone making a decision and breaking the law because they simply don't want to get caught so that is know, to guys like me who actually took an oath to defend this country from all enemies, foreign, domestic, when it turns out that the enemy is a bureaucracy and some middle level manager that's trying to lie to the American people, you know, look out because I'm going to be all over you. I'm not quitting. And what you see is now, you know, what happened? Sounds like this is the kind of thing that unfortunately happens far too often and nothing happens. It does. And if somebody didn't understand the system like I did, it would have been steamrolled.

Starting point is 00:41:14 Somebody didn't have the legal protection that I did. They would have been steamrolled. If someone didn't have the savvy and the friends inside the government that I had, they would have been steamrolled. And that's crap. You know, that's the, you have people that are trying to do their patriotic duty and what are you doing you're lying about them you're

Starting point is 00:41:29 trying to destroy their credibility you know exactly the thing the same thing that people are accusing the government of doing and you're actually doing it in front of everybody for everybody to see and you're doing it unapologetically you know hmm so anyways that's uh that's kind of a long-winded answer of how to destroy stuff. It's important for context because unfortunately a lot of it then wraps into your story. As we see, there's obviously some attacks that come against you. We know that online it's like there's Team Lou and Team Anti-Lou and all that. And a lot of it is just – And I hate teams, man. I wish we were just all one team. It's very stupid. But you are – I'll say this off camera as well. Whenever any names come up, and I won't say any of them at the moment. But whenever any names that were anywhere near AATIP or have talked about it before or would be in the know in the government in some way surrounding these programs, like at least with me, you've always just been nothing but complimentary of people never said a bad word about anybody and yet there seems to be and i hate that this happens but we

Starting point is 00:42:31 got to address it just because it sure unfortunately this topic exists online there seems to be a fuck ton of like high school drama that happens among some of these people where on the one hand some of you will be like friends and then then on the other hand, you will, some of those people will then just throw shit into the fire. Undermine. And now I am going to give a name example. There's some hilarious shit, like literally, you can't make this up, about like discord messages

Starting point is 00:42:59 involving Jay Stratton's wife, because he's got like a book coming out. And Jay is a guy that you've worked with in the past. You've been complimentary of him off air with me before highly intelligent but it seems like there's now like this little high school fucking lunch fight or middle school lunch fight that's going on where he where someone's trying to say no I did that and he didn't do this and they're trying to sell books out of it now you obviously wrote a book as well so let's be fair there but what what do you think that is because to me part of it. Now, you obviously wrote a book as well. So let's be fair there. But what do you

Starting point is 00:43:25 think that is? Because to me, part of it could look like it's almost a distraction. Like this is a part of some, you know, not to paint you as like some deep state guy or whatever, but this could be your giant stage that y'all are playing and laughing and we got to sit here and watch and argue about it in Twitter spaces. Well, I'll tell you that my book was reviewed by several people inside ATIP before it was published. It was also, a lot of people were interviewed directly for it. So it was, it was their accounts that are in the book. And I don't want to look, I'm not here to plug a book, right? I feel slimy doing, I'm not, that's not my motivation for being here, but you, you brought it

Starting point is 00:44:00 up. So I'm, I'm not really worried about that. And as far as the childhood drama, you know, it is, it's like, it's like a middle school, not even high school, middle school, you know, lunchroom. I try not to be distracted by that. There's a lot of really good people out there. You know, I don't know what motivates people. I'm not a trained psychologist. I hope for whoever out there has some sort of bad feelings towards me. I hope they find their peace at whatever, whatever, however they have to do that. If it takes me, you know, putting my arm on their shoulder and be like, Hey, it's okay. We're, we're, we're one team, one team, one fight. Um, I don't know. Um, I mean, maybe, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:41 better than I do. Right. I mean, let's, let's let's look at it the the social media world we live in today um you know the advantage is you allow everyone to have a voice but when you allow everybody to have a voice you mean that means anybody has a voice right and some of those people are motivated um by personal agendas no yeah i can't believe that yeah um so i i try my best um to not engage in that type of of non-constructive conversation um like i said before my mother used to say if i have nothing nice to say about somebody don't say it at all but with people you work with can't you call up like a jay and be like what the fuck bro like all fair not not on a camera or anything like isn't there like a human element to this too i mean look i think it's unfair just to you know to call one person out yeah it's it's it's other people there's and it's and it's human dynamics right there's things that you and i can agree on 99 of the time but

Starting point is 00:45:39 then there's one hot button issue where maybe we don't right and and maybe people's emotions and and whatnot get the best of them i don't know um you know jay's a very honorable man um he has done great things for his nation very good things for his nation i personally uh witnessed his work ethic he was very very good both in atip and awsap what was his role in in which specifically remember he became the uap task force director so after atip he became he fleeted up and became the uap task force director which by the way did some really good stuff i mean really really good stuff that hopefully he'll talk about in his book but um within within atip what was he well he was one of the founders of osap believe it or not him and lakatsky him and lakatsky and a few others and big lakatsky is the guy that brought you in right yes well actually it was believe it or not it was jay

Starting point is 00:46:28 and another person and lakatsky was was the director at the time of osap um and um so so jay was from you know he was one of the guys who actually built osap so he deserves a tremendous amount of credit for that folks like bigelow and folks like Eric Davis, Hal Poodoff. I mean, just absolute giants in our world. Um, people don't realize how much credit he deserves. There's other individuals, the pilots, multiple pilots, many, many that we discussed and had conversations with eyewitnesses and radar operators. So, um, as far as the middle school drama, man, I don't get involved. I, I, it's, it's not helpful and all it does is create a distraction you know um you don't want your president vice president you know getting in a dumb tit for tat you just for sure not productive

Starting point is 00:47:33 i think it's totally unproductive because i think we should all be interested in the same type of answers here which is what the fuck is going on and what can the government say about it and what do we what do we deserve as like a human right well that's what it is right i mean look bottom line is we're part of a program that discovered some pretty interesting stuff and we think the american people have a right to know that's that's the issue you know all this other stuff is people trying to create drama and distractions and clicks and likes and oh i'm going to go ahead and create artificial drama so therefore people will click on mine and you know here's the irony here's the irony julian they accuse someone of being a grifter and yet they're actually grifting on accusing someone else to be a grifter meaning

Starting point is 00:48:12 if i cause you a grifter and i start writing posts that you're a grifter and now people are clicking and liking mine and now i'm getting advertisement revenue for it i'm the one actually grifting right off of you by accusing you as being a grifter. And that's the irony. Those that are accusing folks, some folks of being grifters, are themselves the biggest grifters of all. And that irony, they don't see. And people don't realize that.

Starting point is 00:48:36 And it's sometimes a little disappointing that we don't have people that are a little bit more critical thinkers. But, and again, when everybody has a voice on social media, anybody has a voice. And so we have to be, as much as we might not like it or agree with it, we have to be respectful of that. Meaning everybody gets a vote. Everybody has an opinion. And my only concern, as long as those opinions aren't opinions and motivated simply for clicks and likes, I'm okay with that. But when you create, manufacture artificial drama that doesn't exist for the sole purposes of just

Starting point is 00:49:13 creating trauma and drama, you know, I think, I think we can do better. I think we deserve better. And by the way, look, mainstream media is no better sometimes,

Starting point is 00:49:23 you know, they thrive off of, off of drama. That's why of drama. That's how you get advertisers, right? It's a business. I remember in spy school, we had a person from a major network come over and explain to us, this was, by the way, the biggest at the time, explaining, hey, look, don't forget, media is a business. We get paid by advertisers to provide content. We are content providers, and in some cases can be content manufacturers, right? Holy crap. Now, wait a minute. Brought to you by Pfizer. You know? That's right. So we need to recognize that. It's not bad. We live in a capitalistic society, but we just need

Starting point is 00:49:58 to be cognizant of that, right? And then be able to formulate our own opinions, at least recognizing that fact. Yeah. I think sometimes the whole grifter argument turns into like that Spider-Man meme where all the Spider-Mans are like pointing at each other. Because it is just like if you're going to define grifters, anyone who makes money on anything that has to do with something that they could be interested in or have some level of expertise in them fucking everyone's a grifter right but the actual definition is supposed to be you know more towards people who really don't know anything about some particular whatever and see it as an opportunity based on where there's interest right to capitalize right yeah be a charlatan or whatever but you know there's where people get more interested in the nitty-gritty with the drama around this one is that all you guys were talking about you're all government involved so already people's like you know their spidey senses are going off and going all right why why are they telling us this stuff you do see

Starting point is 00:50:56 how that could be i can understand that like i said i'm not i don't i i take a playbook from a colleague of mine, Gary Nolan, Dr. Gary Nolan. He says, block early and block often. So I don't necessarily see a lot of that hate because my wife does a good job of blocking agent provocateurs, people that are just trying to create drama. And I prefer not to see that simply because it's not productive. I'm not asking people to agree with me. If you disagree with me, that's great. We can have a great conversation about that. Just be respectful.

Starting point is 00:51:31 Yeah. Stop going out there and using four-letter obscenities to describe your hatred for something. Speak like an adult, right? And then we can have an adult conversation. But if you're just going to be like a four-year-old petulant child and throw a temper tantrum, I don't have time for that. I don't have the bandwidth for it. I've got way too many fish to fry. So to focus on it is counterproductive because there's only so many hours in the day, right? And so I can choose what I decide to apply my time towards. I was telling you this last night off air, but it's relevant to bring up right now,

Starting point is 00:51:59 you know, regarding guys like you who worked in like the intel side of government for 20 plus years your job was to make everything a secret yeah you literally couldn't even go home and tell your wife that's right that's right and so now you come out and maybe it's maybe you're still working for the government maybe you're still doing a little something with them but assuming you're not even for a second and you're coming out and now your job is to be public and say – reveal information about what's going on and now you're on social media. You are going from knowing one thing your whole life, secrecy, and no one even knows that I exist to now not only do I exist and I'm on TV and everyone knows my name and they're talking about what I'm doing. But now all the people can come at me because i exist and in a way it's almost like you're ripping off this insane band-aid okay you're not helping with the paranoia well i'm just

Starting point is 00:52:50 saying like you know like you're right like i look at you and and i mean no offense by this but it's almost like you you're coming from that world of darkness and now you're like in the light and it's like being a 14 year old girl all over again freaked out at every dude a hundred percent a hundred percent it's one of the reasons why i live in wyoming where i live i'm not the man truth be told i mean it's it's i am a creature of the shadows i spent my entire life in fact your life could depend on it right anonymity and now all of a sudden you know i tell people like what's it like to to go from that life to to a public life i said for me it's very some people thrive off some people love it it it for me it's it's it's traumatic it's like it's like imagine being an albino cave newt living in an albino cave newt pull it out what that is alessi

Starting point is 00:53:40 an albino cave newt yes they're um they've gone blind because they've been living their life in the back recesses of caves and uh i often tell people if you want to know what it's like imagine being an albino cave newt and all of a sudden um a uh a bunch of school children come in for a field trip all of a sudden one plucks you right out of your comfortable little cave and now is poking at you with all the other kids under the hot desert sun. That's what it's like. Oh, there you go. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:10 Oh, this is an animal, not a person. No shit. I'm like picturing the guy in the Da Vinci coat coming out and going, no shit. No, no, no. It's a little, it's a little, it's a. Okay. I got you. It's a little amphibian that lives.

Starting point is 00:54:26 It's kind of cute. Well, yeah, unless you're poking at him, then he probably doesn't like it very much. Okay. But, yeah, I mean, that's kind of what it feels like. You know, I don't know how else to explain it. You know, I'm not – I grew up as a kid very – I would consider myself an introvert. Everybody says, no, you're an extrovert, Lou. No, I'm not. I'm actually I grew up as a kid very I would consider myself an introvert Everybody says no you're an extrovert No I'm not I'm actually very introverted

Starting point is 00:54:49 That doesn't surprise me Yeah I am very introverted Whenever the guys were going out and going to the sports bars And what not I was at home Inventing stuff writing patents Writing patents? What kind of patents? I hate talking about myself, man.

Starting point is 00:55:06 I'm just – Well, that's why you're here a little. I'm giving you an example. I have a few patents. It's maritime industry. I just – my wife says I'm like a puppy. If I get bored, I get destructive and I pee on the furniture and tear up the sofa. So –

Starting point is 00:55:21 Makes a maritime patent. So I try to keep myself busy, you know, gearhead. I bet. Is this like cocaine submarines? Is that what you're doing? No, if you type in my name, you'll, you'll, you'll see some of the patents. Just type in my name and type in patent and I'll pull up. But, um, you know, I, I never did these patents to make money or to sell them.

Starting point is 00:55:40 Just, I don't know. Just, I was interested. I like seeing how things work right probably why i got into intelligence to begin with so um no shit patents by inventor luis daniel elizondo yeah march 24 2014 interchangeable superstructures and holes for ocean going vessels all right can we take that out of japanese what does that mean well yeah um you don't really want to go there do you i do want to go your audience doesn't want to hear about that we're down this yeah your audience is good okay no there's like fucking 20 of us yeah i i know i i get bored oh god not enough

Starting point is 00:56:20 going on at guantanamo you're sitting around being being like, shut up, KSM. I'm building a fucking superstructure here. This is embarrassing. I'm sorry. You know, look, I'm proof positive you don't have to be smart to be an inventor, okay? Anybody can be an inventor, trust me. Yeah, I just, you know, I find things interesting. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 00:56:42 Lou Elizondo, the patent king. Learning something new every day. So anyway, we've been going down some really good tangents here. It's good to get clarity on a lot of that though because obviously you know whether we like it or not. People talk about this stuff. It's important. The only other thing I can think of there, I think you've pretty much addressed everything, which people still criticize. But I thought that was pretty good.

Starting point is 00:57:02 The only other thing that some people try to claim that I've never seen evidence for is the Harry Reid letter. They try to say, like, Harry Reid just signed it. He didn't write it or whatever. Where did that come from? It came from him. I mean, I never even talked to him. Apparently, there was a news reporter, Gaddy Schwartz, who was doing an article and knew that, I guess, the Pentagon was up to some shenanigans and reached out to him. And he, on his own volition, did it.

Starting point is 00:57:28 I had nothing. I didn't even know. I was surprised like everybody else. I'm like, wow. Because I never wanted to ask the boss because I thought, you know, it would be inappropriate. It's like, look, you know, this guy's got enough on his plate, and, you know, he doesn't need to be thrown into the mix of this crap.

Starting point is 00:57:39 And all of a sudden, God is like, here it is. Wow. I was like, holy crap. But, you know, I can show you something else if you really want to see it. But you can't. You got to promise me. I'll show it to you. Can't put it on there.

Starting point is 00:57:50 Can't put it on there. But I'd have it with you. Yeah. I got something for you. You want to see? Yeah. Yeah. Let's get this intermission while you see it.

Starting point is 00:57:58 I will hold it straight to my face and not to the camera. Hold it straight to your face. Is this like, am I going to, can you tell people what I'm looking? I'd rather not. I'd just rather you. so you are aware of the harry reed memo right so that's it so i'm so curious john kiriakou is the last guy that did this he held up he held up like a body of like ksm or abu zubayda i'm sorry on the. Can't say what this is. Okay. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 00:58:35 Imagine if I released that. A lot of tea right here. That is not what I was expecting to see. You just blue balled the entire internet that is if whatever you're thinking i just saw is not what you're thinking but you put it that way but you can see why yes i can now it makes sense whoa yeah they got they got the holsters out for you, man. Sometimes you just have to walk the high road and it's tough. Good for you. And there have been times I could settle a discussion very quickly if I wanted to, but it would be at the cost of other individuals and I'm not a sellout. Never have been.

Starting point is 00:59:16 Never, never, ever. I will never throw anybody under the bus to protect my own skin. Never have and never will. See, I can't ask a follow-up question on that because we'll get too close to that but all fair i'm gonna ask you about that good for you i mean that's that would be the uh what do you call it like the canary in the coal mine if you will something like that for sure okay all right yeah sorry everyone that's just that is what it is but i saw what i saw anyway so we started this off where we were talking about tulsi Gabbard and the DNI position and what they have to do.

Starting point is 00:59:49 And we were talking about the new administration and some of them like taking this whole threat in the sky thing seriously. But going back to the last administration because obviously you've been involved publicly with discussing all this stuff since like 2017. So you've lived through the first Trump administration and the Biden administration. Was there any real communication with the biden administration on this were there and was there anyone in the national security council didn't even want to bring it up to him really yeah we had um you know to protect this was a very very senior individual that was part of the obama administration i won't say who because i don't have permission to say it uh and he wound up getting a position with the Biden administration in a very specific capacity. And he was going to champion this cause up at the National Security Council. Long story short,

Starting point is 01:00:35 National Security Council did not want to have this conversation at all. And in fact, said, we're not even going to bring it up to the president. Now, maybe there's reasons for that. Okay. Maybe there's medical reasons. Maybe there's cognitive reasons. Maybe there's operational, functional reasons. I don't know. But the bottom line is you're not going to tell the president you are guilty of the exact problem we've been saying, that the president is not being informed of certain programs and you are part of that problem. You, you just, you on the national security council

Starting point is 01:01:06 are not telling the boss what's going on who the hell are you that's right you're not the president you know that's that's wait a minute if you're making those decisions on behalf of the president and you don't have that authority dude don't look now but you you've got problems. Oh, yeah. Big problems, right? I mean, that's treason. That's how coups start. Coup d'etat is when people in government start making unilateral decisions outside of legal avenues. You mean like Kennedy? I'm just saying, look, man, anybody in government, we all have an oath. We all take an oath to serve our country and to support and defend the Constitution and whatnot. No one has the right to not tell the president something.

Starting point is 01:01:56 No one. As a chief executive of our nation, right, for someone to make a unilateral decision and say, I have this national security issue, but i'm not going to form the president that's a problem that's a problem i completely that's criminal i completely agree with you not one bar that is wrong but do you not see why people like me and probably everyone listening would assume that still happens all the fucking time it does that's exactly why we need good people in government exactly again politics aside you need people that are that are willing to have to speak truth to power that is your job and if you don't want to do that or you can't do that or you're afraid to do that get the hell out and go do something else all right let's let's look at this

Starting point is 01:02:34 the other way though less sinisterly okay you would you had given the example earlier when you're talking about dni about all the possible things that you'd have to read them in on it's not even possible to do you know on a read meaning before you even go to do something your job with whatever agency you're with or whatever team you're on within that agency to brief on this one thing you already have to take i don't know i'll just use round numbers a thousand things and get it down to the top four right maybe even without anything sinister there were more important things than the 996 things that you eliminated that you didn't put in the top four just for human error sure and then it looks like you're not reading in whoever it is the president but if it's a once you know a onesie and a twosie

Starting point is 01:03:16 i got it but when week after week after week look you got chinese spy balloons right going over wafting over north america and you're telling people there's nothing to worry about you have drones that have been encountered all over the place, even over politicians' houses, and the response is, no, we don't know what they are, but they're legal. What? Yeah. You know, there's a fundamental problem when you have over and over again the same thing. When you have a priority, if you start having something happening over and over and over again, that all of a sudden now rises to the top of the list. I can understand if you're number 480 in priorities and you're only briefing the top 10

Starting point is 01:03:47 priorities but over time you keep having this happen you start going up 100 right and so how are you not having the conversation i don't understand and then trying to ignore it on top of that and say nothing to see here folks that's egregious you already have elected members of congress having these things they were governors of states saying look it's over my house right you have the military closing down military bases you don't close down a military base if something's being lawfully flown over your airspace yeah you know it's it's it's complete bs and it's very frustrating to to see and this is why i remain much more optimistic with this administration on their stance on UAP disclosure and drone disclosure and transparency. Because

Starting point is 01:04:31 look, America deserves to know the truth. Absolutely. You know, stop treating us like children, even though sometimes we behave like children. You know, there's a responsibility to inform the American people about what's going on. And I don't believe it's in anyone's best interest in government to keep that information sequestered from the American people. I agree with you. Back on – I believe it was Friday the 13th, Friday, December 13th when this was really suddenly like, whoa, what the fuck is going on? Because we live here in Jersey and all this stuff was above. I'm going to have Alessi chime in in a minute because he lives out where it was really happening but like i got a bunch of guys on the phone unfortunately a lot of them were

Starting point is 01:05:12 off record completely understand why like guys that can't come on the podcast but i've been connected to and i had multiple i think it was three different people who don't work together in different phases tell me some version of like the same thing. I'm not going to say exactly what that was. But the common theme across them and then the other three or four people I talked to outside of them was that this turned into something. It's going to be fine. But the fact that it even got here is a disgrace because this could have been nipped in the bud absolutely two months ago absolutely absolutely so that's a line with what you've heard yes and

Starting point is 01:05:49 and the fact that for two months we had no idea what the hell's going on and then finally come on be like well we don't know but it's not not a threat just made the problem even worse right then people say all right dude you know this is how can you say that how can you say something's not a threat and yet still say, we have no idea its origins or capabilities and who's behind. I mean, that is the last thing you'd want to do as, as, as a government to try to instill faith and confidence. 100%. Now I do want to bring in Alessi here because like I said, he lives out in Bedminster. So Alessi's got a great YouTube channel called his name, Alessi Alamon. And you did, let's make sure we put the link to it down below. You did a one hour investigation video that featured James Fox, Jim DiIorio.

Starting point is 01:06:33 And actually in this case, more importantly, people on the ground there who had witnessed this. And why don't you tell people like what they were saying? Yeah. So I was a witness and then there was like at least 10 to 15 people I spoke to, a lot who didn't want to go on camera that just saw what they saw. And when it started happening after Thanksgiving, when most people started seeing these things, everyone in the Ring app, the neighborhood app, was like, are you guys seeing this? Are you seeing this?

Starting point is 01:07:02 And you would look up, and a lot of people, I will say, had no idea what planes look like for the most part. There were so many that were literally planes. It was like, that is a plane going to this app. You can see the plane coming across. That's a 737 to LaGuardia. Exactly. Like almost 90% of them were like that, but then you definitely had images and videos of drones. And then how low would they be? Oh, very low, like less than 100 feet. Yes, that's what I'm saying. You can see them very low. And from what I saw the few times I saw them, it was like there was two types. There was the DG prong ones that aren't the DG that people think, but they were four prong.

Starting point is 01:07:41 And they were making a noise, a slight buzz. But you could see they were going slow enough, a slight buzz, but you could see they were going slow enough where you're like, that's not a plane. A plane is going to go way faster. Yeah, because you have to have lift. You have to have a certain velocity in order to maintain lift or you crash. Exactly, exactly. And there was one witness, this one lady who had the best account where she was about five minutes from Trump's golf course. And she said every night for two weeks, she would see the same pattern of the drones showing up in the same place going in a pattern where it's like one. And then they said a minute and a half later, another one would show up right when it hit dark and she would see this pattern. And she captured, she showed me the video and it was like.

Starting point is 01:08:19 We call that a racetrack. Yeah. A racetrack? Racetrack pattern. Yeah. track yeah a race track race track pattern yeah and in fact if you i'll add something here if you get on google and type in um mysterious drones uh and type in nebraska or colorado 2019 look what pops up interesting because she also had it down to the second right alessia yes it was like we've been like 88 seconds or something yeah she was timing it people think this is new we've been dealing with this there you go 2020 to the uh son of a bitch yeah so 19 20 colorado drone sightings and it's

Starting point is 01:08:51 been local law enforcement was involved fbi was involved can i read this lou for people to have context it's wikipedia i mean if i were you i would probably go ahead and look at actually news media this is wikipedia which tends to be sometimes watered down. Good man. You mean Wikipedia is run by the CIA? Is that what we're saying? Sometimes worse. All right, go back, Alessi, because there was an article right there.

Starting point is 01:09:18 I like that our Intel guy is telling us not to go on Wikipedia. The Guardian. All right, attack of the drones. Yeah, or even war zone, whatever. There's a lot of reputable. Okay, so this is from July 16, 2020 2020 what did the headline say lessee newly released faa documents give unprecedented look into colorado drone swarm mystery now let's go down perfect all right so as covered in previous reports by the war zone law enforcement agencies in numeral rural counties in eastern colorado and adjacent areas in nebraska and kansas this was widespread okay received an influx of reports of large drones flying in formations at night for a period of

Starting point is 01:09:49 several weeks during december 2019 and early january 2020 isn't that interesting yeah many law enforcement personnel were among the reporting witnesses in short order the mystery drone wave also elicited serious expressions of concern from at least two u.s senators and attention from colorado's governor and state public safety agency the activity soon drew the attention of regional and later on later national news media as well i don't really remember that though so it didn't get that loud oh it did oh absolutely it did i mean it was 2019 a lot of people you know forget what happened yesterday it was all over the place and you can see they had trained observers law enforcement uh even the fbi was involved um and still came up bingo i have no idea what what it was

Starting point is 01:10:32 alessi were a lot of these people reporting the drones as being in the range of suv size yeah so the one i saw and what these people saw they were su they were massive like you looked at the things you're like that thing if it fell out of the sky and you know you could comment however you want about this but when people say and shooting them down i understand the point of view where it's like if they shot it down this thing could like crush someone they could kill multiple people they had the same sightings of those large drones in this and they were actually kicking off smaller drones so think about that capability for a in this and they were actually kicking off smaller drones so think about that capability for a minute right and they were they were autonomously controlled flying in

Starting point is 01:11:09 a very specific grid pattern um as you see here it says here however to to conclude that there is high confidence these are not covert military activities this is coming from senior faa officials right so all right then whose is it And who's got the money and the resources and logistics to coordinate something like this, where you have drones that frankly, at the time were state-of-the-art. And then you have loiter capabilities. Let's take these, let's take, you know what, let's pretend these glasses are a drone. Okay. If, and you guys, you know, being in the YouTube generation and whatnot, you guys know you can buy drones anywhere, commercially available, right? And they can fly maybe 15 minutes, you know, being in the YouTube generation and whatnot, you guys know you can buy drones anywhere, commercially available, right?

Starting point is 01:11:45 And they can fly maybe 15 minutes, little quad, and then you got to land and you got to recharge them. And maybe they fly a couple miles. Imagine now the technology it takes to fly a large drone the size of an SUV. Now, do we have them? We do. Most of them are fixed wing because they have to loiter. To have one the size of an SUV that's using propellers, helicopter-like propellers, right, for lift, requires a tremendous amount of energy. Because you have to not only maintain movement forward, but you also have to maintain lift. Unlike a fixed wing drone, that as long as you're moving forward, the air kind of does the work for you and you stay aloft, right?

Starting point is 01:12:20 So think of a predator drone. That's why a predator drone looks like it does because it's got to stay on station. It's got to loiter for hours and hours and hours. So if you're looking at an SUV-sized drone, there's only two types of fuel you could consider. One would be liquid fuel, like let's say gasoline or jet A fuel, which is very heavy, about seven and a half pounds per gallon. So you're know, you, you now talking something super robust or it's going to be electric, right. Which is also very heavy. You know, if you ever own a Tesla, you know, they're, they're, they're not super light cars because the battery weighs a lot. And so now that limits a lot of things that you can do. Now you can have more range and you can have longevity, right. You can fly further and for longer. Um, but it's really, really expensive, meaning you have to have an entire infrastructure there to do it. Then if you're flying in some cases, like some of these

Starting point is 01:13:10 drones flew for 10, 12 miles, now you're talking over the horizon, right? So what does that mean? Here's our little drone here. If I want to communicate with this drone and control it, I have to be line of sight because it's radio frequency controlled. If I want to fly this over the horizon where I don't have a signal, now I need more controlled. If I want to fly this over the horizon where I don't have a signal, now I need more infrastructure. I either need an aircraft airborne that will retransmit my signal to the drone, or I need some sort of space-based capability or some sort of repeater capability to amplify my signal and send it over the horizon to control the drone and vice versa. And then I have a issue of launching it

Starting point is 01:13:46 without people seeing me, right? Why am I going to launch an SUV-sized drone? Then I've got to recover it. I've got to go out and actually pick it back up. And oh, by the way, I've got to maintain it as well. And I've got to give it its fuel source whenever I want to fly it, right? So you're talking about a very big endeavor.

Starting point is 01:14:01 This is not just, hey, somebody making a car-sized drone and they're a hobbyist in their garage and flying it. This would take a lot of people to do, just to fly one, let alone a fleet of them, right? And then there's reports where some of these may even have some sort of counter drone capability or technology. Counter drone? Yes. There were some reports that somebody would fly their own drone to try to get a closer look at the drone and would get disabled and fall to the ground. Woo.

Starting point is 01:14:28 I didn't hear about this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No shit. So now you're talking about a level of sophistication here that really at this point can only be state sponsored, right? There's only a few countries in the world that know how to have that type of capability and get away with it. And no one has any idea who's behind it

Starting point is 01:14:45 right where are you launching it from how are you recovering it how many do you have or do you have a big boat out in the ocean that you're launching it from well we would see that so okay well maybe you're launching them from a submarine well okay so now you have a submarine in u.s territorial waters that's a problem that's scary so you see it's a very slippery slope here, and that's why it's probably for some people better to have the conversation saying, don't pay attention, folks. Nothing – no big deal here. We're handling it. But again, to go to the front end of it, it's like this was the cat that got out of the bag that it sounded like based on the people I spoke to. It should have been – this should have been nipped in the bud at the beginning, but it wasn't. Correct. Who failed there a lot of people so i'll tell you when i was 2013 2014 i was part of uh what they call the u.s air domain awareness working group and it was co-sponsored by dhs department of homeland security and faa and it had all the folks there from the intel community and whatnot

Starting point is 01:15:47 because they realized that the emerging threat of drones was real. And when you asked somebody, okay, so who's responsible for this? Everybody did this. Everybody pointed at each other. No. Say it isn't so. Like, oh, not my responsibility, you know. And clearly we're still in the same position.

Starting point is 01:16:06 So that's why – one of the reasons why I really applaud Tulsi Gabbard doing what she's doing. She said, look, we're going to get to the bottom of this. The American people deserve to know. We're going to let them know what's going on. Now, Trump had said when he got into office because he was during his transitional period when this was going on that he was like, we gonna let you know exactly what it was they should have told you and then you do that good i don't know like five days in the office they did say at the i guess like the press secretary briefing that oh nothing to see here it was just regular what what did she say exactly unless he was like it was just regular yeah she said basically it is. Yeah. She said basically it's all authorized airplanes and drones.

Starting point is 01:16:48 The reality is two things. First of all, let me caveat this. I would certainly never say anything against the administration. But I think there's two things – That you want to jump in. No, that I want to help anybody who is president succeed. I got you. Let me rep you.

Starting point is 01:17:05 I got you. Look, first and foremost, in the five days that they had actually been in office, they were using information from the old administration. That's a fact. It's the information that the last administration had. And they're like, well, this is what we found. Well, that's trustworthy. Right. And then the second issue is that these folks were only in office for five days.

Starting point is 01:17:27 Now, think about that. Five days. There is a whole lot you have to do when you're coming in as a new administration. You haven't even kept the seats warm yet, right? I mean, everything is in flex. You haven't even moved in your furniture yet. So I think we need to give them a break. I think we need to give them, you know, unlike the last administration that had four years to figure this out, this was five days.

Starting point is 01:17:48 You know, what, 96 hours, maybe a little bit more. That's not a whole lot of time. And you're relying on information from a previous administration. So it's a little unfair. I think people get critical and say, oh, you know, this is bull crap. Hold on. You know, chill your jets for a second. Give them some time.

Starting point is 01:18:04 Let the people look. at the cabinet hasn't even been confirmed yet but they already do so here's the devil's advocate to that they already don't trust the last administration so five days i understand like he made a promise that they wanted to give some information whatever they could when they came in wouldn't it be good then to caveat that statement with look we're working off what the old administration said but we are still looking into this ourselves because it's weird shit. So I wouldn't, again, let me be really careful here. I would never, ever, ever make a recommendation to administration on how they employ their strategic communications, right? There's a whole calculus that goes into what we

Starting point is 01:18:41 say and how we say it, right? Because you have to understand that words have an impact and they can create action. That's right. Some of that action's good. Some of that action's not good. Like being in a crowded movie theater and screaming fire, right? You got to understand there's a responsibility there.

Starting point is 01:18:54 So I think what they were doing is, A, fulfilling a promise. Two, basically saying, okay, we're going to go ahead and give the American people what we are being told with the understanding that we can go back anytime we want as information changes, right? What did we talk about in the beginning of this conversation? As facts change, I change my mind, right? And I think that is probably

Starting point is 01:19:16 where this conversation will eventually go. And again, let me just caveat again, I am not nor will I ever speak on behalf of the administration or any administration without their approval to do so. And I can only imagine what they have on their plate, right? So we have to be – I think the average American doesn't really appreciate what a new administration has to go through when they first come in. mind-boggling the stuff you're now responsible for like oh my god i'm responsible for this and oh by the way that guy was in the middle of doing that and holy crap now how do i you know how do i how do i unwind four years of of policies that you know maybe i'm not i don't agree with and at the same time move the country forward in a direction that i think we need to go in um and then do that all the while while everybody's sniping. I cry and moan and complain about the haters online. I could not imagine as a political figure what they have to endure. I mean the visceral hatred, right, and vitriol that is in social media and mainstream media to some degree. I don't know if I can handle it.

Starting point is 01:20:22 I have a tough enough time right now with the few haters that I have. I couldn't imagine it, you know, constantly being attacked every single day by everybody and their mom. So I get it. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm very optimistic. The American people are going to get, at least in this topic of UAP and drones and aerospace domain awareness, we're going to get some significant progress in the next four years on this topic. That was a really good tryout

Starting point is 01:20:53 speech right there. You're speaking well. You're killing me, man. Yeah, we got it all on camera too. We can send them the real. Be like, yo, picture this, but on CNN. No, you know what? And you'll win. First of all, I've got this. I've got tattoos. I've got too many skeletons in my closet.

Starting point is 01:21:08 Yeah, that makes you relatable. No, listen. You know, when I was with my, a long time ago when I was a kid, like I said, I did every crap job you could to earn money. And one of those jobs was a little embarrassing. So let's just say I don't fit i don't well not quite yeah um man you know you're a dumb kid you got to do what you got to do to get through school you know and uh um anyways let's just say i probably don't fit the mold of a senior executive in the US government.

Starting point is 01:21:48 Okay. TBD. Too many tattoos and this weird facial hair that I have. TBD. Maybe if you teach them how to build a bunker. They'll want that expertise and overlook the old stuff. But let's not get off the topic here as to what we're talking about with what these drones are and trying to break it down because like you are someone who you studied what's in the sky and things like that first question would be through your sources without revealing

Starting point is 01:22:15 people are you aware of conversations that may have happened at i don't know some sort of official level within the government itself, not at the Intel, meaning like maybe Intel briefing people in Congress or things like that prior to these drones becoming a news story? Yeah. Was it known that it was going to be? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So they knew it was coming. Well, no, what I meant to say is that the people knew that this was a problem. U.S. air domain awareness has been a problem forever, and we've just ignored it. And now the technology has caught up to the point where now we're behind the eight ball.

Starting point is 01:22:52 What do you think it was? Look, let me give you an example here. You've got to Google again. Type in 1999 FBI investigation White House remote-controlled airplanes. 1999 FBI investigation white house remote controlled airplanes let's see what pops up

Starting point is 01:23:11 jfk jr uh no there's a it might have been as late 1990 so it might have been actually 1998 there's a 9-11 commission report. There was a plan that the FBI foiled by two individuals who were arrested who were going to fly remote-controlled airplanes that had explosives on board. Top one. Top one, Alessi. And they were going to, yeah, try that one. Scroll down. There was.

Starting point is 01:23:43 Fence jumpers? No, no. Go back. It was a remote-controlleders? No, no. Go back. It was a remote-controlled... Go back. Yeah, hit back. Type in... Take away...

Starting point is 01:23:51 Yeah, 1990s White House investigation. Scroll down to a study from 1990s. Helicopter may have been approved. Why did the world's most advanced electronics... No. Here, I'll pull that one. Yeah, this is a tough one type in fbi investigations uh white house uh remote controlled airplanes and that should be that should pull it up okay so i actually use this in a briefing when i was in the government to explain um on how they were going to use remote-controlled airplanes.

Starting point is 01:24:25 Terrorist threat confronting the United States. I'll pull it up here. This is a tough one. Okay. Yeah, it was a while ago, but we used it. It was an FBI investigation. I'll pull it up here. Yeah, it's interesting to me, just while you're pulling this up,

Starting point is 01:24:43 to comment that, you know, we've had drones around now like just within mom and pop being able to use in the air for so long. And people – you'll just see people randomly fly it. I'll walk out here along the Hudson River and motherfuckers are putting drone up in the air, and it's usually a small little thing obviously. But they'll fly up pretty high into what is quite literally airspace and to this point i mean you pointed out the 19 or the 2019 2020 thing in colorado which is interesting i was less familiar with that but to this point we don't have a ton of examples lou where like this really interfered and became like a national headline yet the technology has been around for so long well here you go so here's fbi.gov. This is on the FBI's website.

Starting point is 01:25:32 Massachusetts man charged with plotting attack on Pentagon using remote-controlled aircraft filled with C4 plastic explosives. So I will pull that up for you right now so you can see it. This is in the 90s. Here you go. FBI webpage. Well, it goes all the way back to the 90s. That might be even more recent. All right. I'm going to read this off the phone because Lou found this here.

Starting point is 01:25:45 This is from September 28, 2011. A 26-year-old Ashland man was arrested and charged today in connection with his plot to damage or destroy the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol using large remote with attempting to provide material support and resources to a foreign terrorist organization, specifically to al-Qaeda, in order to carry out attacks on U.S. soldiers stationed overseas. Our top priority is to protect our nation from terrorism and national security threats. The conduct alleged today shows that Mr. Farris had long pledged – this is a long U.S. attorney comment. Okay, I got you. But this just gets to show you, and even a decade before that we were dealing with it. So, you know, the technology may have changed and evolved, but the application and tactics have not. This is nothing new. And so this is a big concern for us.

Starting point is 01:26:35 It really is because drones now can be used to do all sorts of stuff. We're seeing in the Ukraine and Russia where they're literally hunting down soldiers and blowing them up, right? Oh, it's crazy. Those videos are nuts right so and that is that is just field expediency using commercial drones you can imagine with a little bit of and i want to be really careful we'll never say this over over here but if you have an imagination you could do some really bad things for very cheaply against the american people so this is why this is a national priority for us this is why i think one of the reasons why tulsa gabbard realizes we need to get to the bottom of this drone issue. We need to have good

Starting point is 01:27:08 policy. Remember we talked about policies? We need to have good policies in place now on how we're going to go ahead and regulate the use of drones using FAA and maybe pre-coordinated flight plans and transponders, right? So you can squawk friendly so you know if it's a helicopter, a plane using your app or a drone, right? Or if you'reawk friendly so you know if it's a helicopter or a plane using your app or a drone, right? Or if you're just going to be a commercial drone, that commercial drones

Starting point is 01:27:29 or previous drones can only be so big so you can't put a huge payload on them. And, you know, you geofence them, right? So they can only be flown maybe a mile from your location unless you have special permission.

Starting point is 01:27:39 Maybe if you're in the film industry, you can get a license, you know, where you go through a background check maybe like DHS does when you want to, TSA, right? You want to get on a TSA pre-list so you can fly through security. Maybe you do the same thing with drone pilots, right? You say, okay, for those of you who use this as a business, you're going to go through a quick background check and you'll be able to go to Hobby Lobby or anywhere else and buy a drone and now be able to fly it completely unregulated. That's an issue. You don't let a 10-year-old drive a car. Why would you let him drive a drone, right? You can do just as much damage. So there's things that we

Starting point is 01:28:16 can do, I think, that can certainly low-hanging fruit to solve this problem quickly. Do you think that... And this is why we needed, by the way, national strategy that I've been advocating for. What does that look like? Well, it's a comprehensive approach, hopefully done by someone either at the National Security Council or someone like Tulsi Gabbard as a director of national intelligence, whoever that is, that says, okay, as an intelligence community, here are the vulnerabilities we have. These are what we need in order to fix the problem whether it's operational whether it's policy whether it's

Starting point is 01:28:50 whatever it may be these are the five six objectives enterprise objectives mission objectives milestones deliverables benchmarks right all the things that that healthy governments use to make sure that they are they are extra executing the will of the American people and it's not that hard it's really not that hard there's a couple levers that would probably low-hanging fruit that we could do immediately that would help solve 80% of the problem and then the next year spend the rest fixing the rest seeing how like this article you'd pulled up was from 2011 and it's some guy that was

Starting point is 01:29:25 obviously plotting to use c4 on the white house or whatever but c4 think about that yeah it's crazy not not just you know a bunch of m80s and firecrackers yeah c4 right so obviously like that that could have been an insane breach right there that a lot of people's lives could have been lost but seeing as this technology like i said has now been around for so long and everyone's using it, do we have – I don't know, like at the Pentagon, for example, like outside the building itself, not necessarily an iron dome like Israel has but something in that type of family to where if anything comes within a mile of that airspace – So I'm not going to speak on what capabilities the Pentagon or any other government organization might or might not have. We do invest in counter drone technology as a government to protect our personnel overseas. And one may infer that maybe we've even used some of that technology here domestically.

Starting point is 01:30:18 You know, I don't want to address specific either capabilities or vulnerabilities. But if you do go to the Pentagon, you see these signs that say no drone zone for a very specific reason. There are several ways you can kill a drone. You can do it kinetically. So you can think of shooting an object at it and disabling it. You can also do it electronically. These things fly with servos and electronics. And if you understand their frequencies, you can, in some cases, jam it,

Starting point is 01:30:49 what we call, you know, electronic countermeasures. So there are ways to do that as well. The science isn't really perfect, but it's pretty good. Now, of course, if you're a foreign adversary, then what do you do? Well, you harden it. So now you start make, you shield it. So now you can't use electronic capabilities, right? And it's kind of this cat and mouse tit for tat where, okay, you do this.

Starting point is 01:31:10 Well, I'll do that. Well, you do this. I do that. My concern is that if you have a fox in the henhouse situation, there are – when I was growing up, radar detectors as a kid were really – you bought them because you're speeding, unfortunately, and you don't want to pay the ticket. So a lot of kids my age, we all had radar detectors in our vehicles. We didn't realize that a lot of those radar detectors were actually being manufactured by the radar manufacturers that the police use.

Starting point is 01:31:36 And so what wound up happening is that the same companies that were selling you the radar detector would then develop a new capability to outfox it, right, with the radar. And then they'd turn around and sell you another radar detector that could detect laser and x-band and ka band and right and so it's planned obsolescence yeah so you want to make sure kind of you know there's a couple other examples that i won't use um you want to make sure that's not the situation here right where drone manufacturers are also creating the counter drone capabilities and then, you know, maybe they're not, you know, again, I want to be

Starting point is 01:32:10 very careful because I'm not accusing anybody of doing that, but we just need to make sure that's not happening. For sure. That would be a huge problem. Let's speak hypothetically right here. I'm going to emphasize this is hypothetically. Hypothetically. Yes.

Starting point is 01:32:32 What do you think these drones were? i think there are many things um it's pretty clear that you listen to the eyewitness testimony which i don't think you know most of the people are rational sane human beings they know what a plane is and they know what a drone is um some of these drones were uh recorded and they have the whirring sound of a typical little quadcopter. You know, it's a drone and it's blinking and it's whatnot. The lights on it are consistent with the drone. Then you have other reports where these things are the size of an SUV. These things don't have the lights that normal drones have and the frequency in which they're blinking. They're not blinking navigational lights in green and red like aircraft but they're blinking different colors and not in a consistent pattern with navigational lights right so people don't

Starting point is 01:33:11 realize this navigation lights are just like an automobile when you turn on your blinker the reason why your honda versus your chevrolet versus your ford or your ferrari all have that same blinkers uh period is because it's regulated. You know, if you want to build a car and have it be a car manufacturer, when you turn the blinker on, that little relay in there and the resistor are calibrated to blink at a certain frequency. The same is true with navigation lights, right? They're regulated.

Starting point is 01:33:39 And that's why we can tell when something's an airplane. When you have something the size of an SUV that's flying silently, no whirring sound, we might be dealing with a different type of technology. Also, you might be dealing with something – if it has a counter drone capability, that's even more problematic because that's new. We're not used to drones having counter drone capability. That's something new. And then you have these things in some cases miles out in the ocean that are in some cases following u.s coast guard vessels right that's not a quadcopter that's that's something different and so and then you also have people misidentifying right um i saw one with oh this is a drone no it's not it's actually

Starting point is 01:34:19 a helicopter it's a belgian right i mean it's it's clear there's a lot a lot of misidentification and then you've got you know um the possibility that if i was a foreign adversary and i saw what was going on hey now's the time to test my stuff because everybody's kind of in a panic mode so let's see what i can get away with oh meaning after the fact sure they sneak it in right and then you've got the other issue where some of these are really exotic and maybe you're dealing with a ua you know hypothetically hypothetically right we're talking hypothetical let's say you have a military base you're the commander of a military base in the old days you had helicopters if something kind of breached the perimeter you could send out a security force and a helicopter or two we

Starting point is 01:34:55 realize we can use drones a lot cheaper and a lot more effectively than two helicopters i can send out a fleet of these things have my entire base geofence and if something crosses the border these things can automatically deploy deploy and you the target, or if you will, conduct the surveillance for me, and much more efficiently than a helicopter crew. So imagine, let's say hypothetically, again, you have this UAP, some unidentified thing coming over your military base, and in response, you send out a fleet of drones to start doing the racetrack and start looking at the, okay, what are we dealing with here? Right? So some people report something the size of an SUV that's silent, that's not blinking, that can disappear into thin air. And then all of a sudden somebody reports 20 minutes later, no, no, no, it was a quadcopter. I heard it roaring. It was over my house. Here's a video, here's a blinking light.

Starting point is 01:35:41 That's also a possibility that one could be predicating something else, a response. So what people are seeing are both. That's a possibility as well. And then there's other possibilities. We could go down for hours and hours on the what ifs. I'm very careful not to say what something is or is not because we need more data. But all these are possibilities. And it certainly wouldn't be outside the realm of logic.

Starting point is 01:36:07 Your example of potentially while this is going on in the mass hysteria, starting over at a foreign adversary, sneaking a little one in there. Absolutely. That could make a lot of sense to me. The one that didn't make sense to me was that when people were saying at the front end of this, the whole thing was like, oh,anian submarine released all these drones and they're over new jersey now because we didn't know they were that seems ridiculous to me because it feels like those would have been taken out quietly and without any fanfare immediately because it was so obvious it's not like some of those videos you'll see of like chinese drones where it's like a fucking bird like a literal bird or something like that it's like undercover these things were you could see what they were right like something that overt being you know some foreign country

Starting point is 01:36:51 doing it that's how long it took us to shoot down the the chinese spy balloons yeah and what were like let's go back to that that was february 2023 like is that all they were they were just chinese spy balloons well that's all. That's a pretty big deal because if I can put intelligence equipment on it, I can put anything on it. Yeah. Right? You know, I have a problem with that. You know, it's like people say, well, you know, I don't mind people videoing me.

Starting point is 01:37:18 Okay, fine. Or taking a picture. But what about in your bathroom? Yeah. Is that a problem? Right. Or sucking up all the data. Right.

Starting point is 01:37:23 So, you know know the fact that we we didn't know about them and then it turns out later that maybe we did we just never told the president and that's great i mean right again this is my point who are you to not make me who are you to make the decision to not tell the president what the hell's going on right that that's a problem well tell someone i don't know if he would have even interpreted it, but, you know, he was kind of going at that point. But tell somebody. Like, get it? Like, that stuff was floating up there a while.

Starting point is 01:37:51 You're right. There were, if I remember correctly, though, there were, maybe I'm wrong about this, two or three of them, something like that. With these drones, we're not talking about two or three. No, we're not. This was like a fucking army. We're talking, that's right, something very well coordinated. For weeks. three no we're not this was like a fucking army we're talking that's right something very well for weeks for weeks and then you have the other theories of well maybe they were trying to sniff out radioactive type material and people say oh that's a bunch of hogwash uh but it's not can you

Starting point is 01:38:14 explain that sure um some folks had speculated that these drones actually were sponsored by the u.s government and they're on some sort of secret mission that maybe perhaps there was a chemical or biological or a nuclear device that was – had gone rogue, basically a broken arrow situation where we have a loose weapon. Like a dirty bomb. Or maybe not dirty. It could be the real deal. And so the idea is to try to use drones in a manner at night so you're not being seen too much and panicking the public to go ahead and sweep and see if you can pick up traces. Sniff. Sniff.

Starting point is 01:38:53 Now people say, well, that technology doesn't work. Take a look on Google. Once again, that technology has had it for a long time. There are certain capabilities we've had in the past to monitor nations' development of nuclear weapons. I'm not going to go into detail here, but there is stuff in the open source where you can see, where you can actually detect if a country is developing a particular capability because of air particles. And that's something that's been discussed at length.

Starting point is 01:39:22 It's all over. In fact, if you get on Google, you'll see it. Again, I don't want to say anything really much more than that. But type in maybe – type in nuclear sniffer. You want the word drone in there too? Nope. Just nuclear sniffer. All right. The WC-15 Constant Phoenix, also known as the nuke sniffer, is a United States Air Force aircraft that detects nuclear explosions by collecting samples from the atmosphere.

Starting point is 01:39:52 So case in point, right? We have that technology. It's not new. And so my point to this whole conversation regarding this is that, yes, you can actually detect trace amounts of nuclear material through air particulates. And it's a mission that even the Air Force admits we do. All right. I want to play another hypothetical here because this is very – I mean let's call it what it is. We have multiple wars going on around the world right now, all kinds of like potential boiling kettles of shit happening where you know the wrong

Starting point is 01:40:27 spark goes off and suddenly kaboom no pun intended but there was there was a piece of not fabricated information but fabricated with the context information that was happening on twitter back when this was going on where someone took a screenshot from i don't remember the name of the organization but it's like it's something that it's like the national it's it's it's where they track any nuclear threats or whatever nationally and basically the way i understand it is you're required to report anything on there like literally anything so the screenshot that they were pointing around they're like oh my god there's a nuke in new jersey or something

Starting point is 01:41:04 like that about the medical equipment yeah it was actually like medical equipment it had no but it had some sort of waste material with it so they were required you know some fucking doctor dropped it on the side of the road it wasn't like a big deal so that wasn't the actual thing but on that idea if for example a foreign adversary of some sort doesn't matter who were able to get not even necessarily like a full-blown nuke but something crazy something powerful through the port of elizabeth right here where there's i don't know god knows thousands and thousands of containers that are coming in every day what a nightmare situation that would be you pay off some fucking guy named vinnie pays

Starting point is 01:41:39 off another guy named carmine money's green suddenly you got a little bomb in new jersey if you had that type of breach and you were any administration doesn't matter who you are that is such or intel that is such an embarrassment that this would have gotten in and also the type of situation that i call the joker scenario right if you come around like remember in in the dark night when the joker's like if everything's going according to plan no one one freaks out. You say you're going to blow up a grocery store. Okay, you blow up a busload of soldiers. But if you say that one little innocent mayor is going to be blown up, then everyone loses their mind, right?

Starting point is 01:42:11 Like that whole thing. If you had that scenario happen where suddenly you said to people, we don't know where, we don't know when, we don't know how, but there's some sort of fucking potential dirty bomb floating around. We don't think they're going to use it. But just keep going about business as usual. The nuclear sniffers are here. Then there's mass panic in society, meaning you already let the cat out of the bag by letting it in. And now you're in a situation where you actually can't be transparent because

Starting point is 01:42:34 you need people to know like, all right, probably nothing's going to happen, but we can't have people freaking out. So that's like fucking mad Max Ferry road getting out of here. Correct. There was a... If you want to see something really scary,

Starting point is 01:42:48 I believe it was Lebanon and I believe it was maybe... Yeah. Fertilizer, right? It wound up being fertilizer. What is this, Elias? It wasn't even a bomb. You know about it. You've seen it. It literally looks like an atomic weapon going off.

Starting point is 01:43:03 It's fertilizer on a boat. Oh, yes. Yeah, unless he showed me this. Yeah. Yes. Now, look at that, right? Whoa.

Starting point is 01:43:16 That is one hell of an explosion. Do we know, like, the spread of that? I mean, it looks huge on camera, but, like... It was huge. It was huge. I mean, look what it does huge on camera. It was huge. It was huge. I mean, look what it does. It decimated. Watch this.

Starting point is 01:43:28 Whoo! Right. And that's fertilizer, guys. That's just fertilizer. From my understanding, if I remember correctly, it was due to a ship that had come into port, and the fertilizer had ignited. And look at that shockwave. That's crazy. Right. a ship that had come into port and the fertilizer had ignited. And look at that shockwave, right? That's so crazy.

Starting point is 01:43:46 Right. And so that is just, that is not even someone deliberately trying to blow something up. That's just a bonehead mistake that was done and you can see what happened, right? So, yeah, you're right. That's terrifying. And we, you know, we've got to be careful. That's part of the reasons why we have the SAFE Act, S-A-F-E.

Starting point is 01:44:14 And the DHS had created a law that they were going to go ahead and at one point inspect something like 99% or 100% of all cargo. Congress passed a law actually. And finally, DHS said we can't import authorities. We just don't have the manning to inspect all our cargo. Scary. Yeah, scary. Right. So, yeah, we've got to pay attention our cargo. You know, scary. Yeah. Scary. Right. So,

Starting point is 01:44:26 you know, yeah, we, we gotta, we gotta pay attention to stuff. There's bad actors out there that will do bad things at any opportunity they can. And so that's why, you know, one of the reasons why I'm,

Starting point is 01:44:36 I'm always very pro government people. They've been pro government because they're the ones every day doing their job, you know, busting their ass to save yours. That's what they're doing every day. And the fact that you can go around and bitch and moan about job you know busting their ass to save yours that's what they're doing every day and the fact that you can go around and bitch and moan about you know the government shows you that it works it's the best country in the world because you have that right and privilege you didn't even have to go to war you didn't have to join the army you didn't

Starting point is 01:44:58 you weren't conscripted into the military you know um you know unlike north korea where i guess men can have something like 17 haircuts that are authorized by the government and women have like 22 something ridiculous like that i mean here you're free and the cost of freedom is that you'd have to have you know you have to have vigilance on on the on on the on the fence line you know there's imagine imagine a and it's not meant to be derogatory at all this is just an analogy imagine you, you know, there's, imagine, imagine a, and it's not meant to be derogatory at all. This is just an analogy. Imagine you have, you know, some peaceful sheep all within a little fenced in area. Make no mistake, outside that fence, there's wolves that want to eat the sheep. And they're always there, right? So you need, you need these, these, these, these protectors,

Starting point is 01:45:42 these, these dogs that maybe look a little funny to the sheep and maybe sound a little funny, maybe smell kind of funny. But that's your line of defense between the wolves and the sheep. They're there doing that job to protect the rest of us, right? And so that's why I'm not anti-government. I'm super pro our government. I think we have the best country in the world. This country gave opportunities to my family that no other country could. I think we have the best country in the world. This country gave opportunities to my family that no other country could. My father was in the Bay of Pigs.

Starting point is 01:46:09 He was a revolutionary. He was in prison, right? And this country gave us all the opportunity to be who we are today. So I am fiercely loyal, unapologetically loyal. This is the greatest nation in the world. But we have to do our part. Freedom isn't free. Freedom requires sacrifice. It's another reason why I don't like to talk about my military experience because, you know, people say, oh, you're a hero. No, I'm not. Because the real heroes I've talked to aren't here to tell their story. Yeah, we were talking about that off camera.

Starting point is 01:46:41 And because I asked you right before we got on, I asked you about that, like why you don't like delving into that. And if you don't mind me saying, you said part of it is like – and I can cut this out after if you don't mind. No, no. It's imposter syndrome. Right. Yeah. Don't cut it out. This is it.

Starting point is 01:46:57 The reality is that, look, there's men and women out there who have done more for their country and paid the ultimate sacrifice. So for me or anybody else that I work with and colleagues of mine to come, Oh, you know, I, I'm a big hero. No, you're not because the real heroes are the ones that never came back. The real heroes are the, are the single moms or husbands that had to be left behind and raise a child and go to PTA meetings and put food on the table and do homework while the other service member was out fighting war, right? And try to keep a normal life. Or as I said before, it's the female pilot who's running low on fuel for her helicopter, but instead of abandoning her little ducklings behind, she stays on target.

Starting point is 01:47:38 She stays there until her helicopter runs out of fuel and crashes, right? Those are the heroes. And so those are the ones that i pay much deference to and that's why one reason i don't like to talk about my military service or my my government service because frankly there's a lot of people out there that deserve a hell of a lot more credit than i do well i i always you know this this argument or topic of what is the government's role and how does it you know when people talk about it leaning towards totalitarianism and things like that yeah it's it's interesting that you say i don't mean this in a derogatory way when you give the example like the sheep and and and the dogs protect them and i know why you say that obviously because

Starting point is 01:48:23 of what people say about like us being sheep and things like that. But to me, the buck – Or the dogs being warmongers, right? Right, right. You can't win no matter what. You can't win, but the buck stops somewhere, right? It either stops with the government or it stops with the people who pay off the government or both, and there are severe downsides to all those things. Like there's no answer. Whenever I look at this question, there's no zero or 100 answer that makes everything right or everything wrong.

Starting point is 01:48:51 And part of the job in society is when things do get out of control, including like of course that starting with the government. Like we got to be vigilant and we got to use our First Amendment rights and protect them to be able to speak against that. But I do sit here and ponder sometimes when I'm out there walking along the skyline or when I'm sitting in here looking at the picture of just this skyline right here of Manhattan with these millions of people in this one little speck within this country and all the technology that I even know of exists around the world to say nothing of all the technology that I don't know exists and the 8 billion people with all different types of fucking motivations that exist around this world that that that anything can happen and pop up at any moment it's like i have such an appreciation

Starting point is 01:49:33 for how fragile society is and it kind of blows my mind can i share something with you yes can you pull up on google type in the word pale blue dot. Pale blue dot? Pale blue dot. I'd like to walk you through something here. Okay. Pull up that picture there on images, that big one right there. Let's go to the right. Yeah, just hit that one. Yeah, just hit that. Now blow that up.

Starting point is 01:49:58 Are we allowed? By the way, not literally. I mean, okay. Now, Julian, what do you see there in that picture? I see a pale blue dot in the middle of that little light strip. That's right. You want to know what that is? So let me tell you.

Starting point is 01:50:12 Everything you have ever learned, every moment in human history, every person that has ever lived, every person that has ever died, every person that's ever loved or hated are all contained in that little blue dot that is a picture taken by the voyager spacecraft when it was leaving towards the outer parts of our solar system we had to turn around and take a selfie take a picture of our home planet that's earth and that is earth that little two pixels but what that is is that is our planet floating through the vacuum of space the inky blackness of nothingness right so if you want a demonstration of really how fragile we really are you only have to look at that and realize our place in the universe right and yet as infinitesimally obscure as that may be

Starting point is 01:51:00 we're also very special we're also very unique it's a very that's a very special. We're also very unique. It's a very, it's a very special place. Some people, when you look at that picture, it creates anxiety because people begin to realize how fragile we really are. Yes. Right?

Starting point is 01:51:12 And very humbling. But other people look at that and they also find hope. They say, yeah, but that's what makes that so special. Yeah. You know?

Starting point is 01:51:20 And so, government's job is to hopefully represent the will of the people. And I think when we talk about how fragile we really are, if you look at that picture, you realize there's really no such thing as ever being in the same place at the same time. You can come in here morning after morning and do your little routine. But the fact is that little blue dot is hurtling at an incredible speed around some obscure star that we call the sun that's hurtling around some obscure part of a, of a, of a galaxy. We call the Milky Way.

Starting point is 01:51:58 That's part of a super cluster. And it's, it's, there's, there's no going back. There is no such thing as being in the same place at the same time. It will never happen. And so all we have is future. All we have is going forward. And so that's another reason why I think we all, it's in our best interest as humanity to work together because there is, we can learn from the past, but there's no going

Starting point is 01:52:20 back. There's never going back. Yeah. And, and we have have to we have to realize that we're all in this together when you look at that and you blow that up you realize something interesting when you look at earth from space it's not like looking at a map you don't have lines of delineation you don't have borders you begin to realize we're all kind of in this together you know what i mean and so um I would encourage people to kind of think of government that way too, that the job of government is to preserve our the government to have to know so much than having

Starting point is 01:53:05 the psychological bias of being not able to share that information and therefore thinking that they're making the right decisions on behalf of the people that they're supposed to answer now that is there you go and i'll tell you what man i would be remiss if i didn't admit that myself there are certain things that i work on that I do that I can't disclose. Actively. Actively, yeah. Because I feel that I am – I hate to use the word combat effective, but it's a military term. I'm more effective being able to, in some cases, operate some things in the shadows.

Starting point is 01:53:42 Eventually, they'll come out and the public will realize I was part of it. But it's too premature. And yes, I'm making that decision. And yes, in some cases I'm making that decision unilaterally. My heart's in the right place, but you know what? I could be wrong. And that's why it's important that our government, we work with the elements in our government

Starting point is 01:54:02 so more people are aware and more people can decide more people can put their brain power to it right and and come up with a decision come up with with with with a way forward um and that's true in government transparency i believe on a lot of issues not just the uap topic topic you know and you bring up a really good point that's a very fair point and and i would be lying to you if i told you, even myself, if I said, well, I'm not subject to that. Yes, I am. Sure you are. Because we're human and we all have bias, right?

Starting point is 01:54:32 We all have – Yes. We have desires that we want to see fulfilled. In this particular case, I want greater transparency with the American government. And yet I'm the first one to admit that there are things that I'm not transparent on. And yes, you know what? That is a contradiction, but that is part of the human condition, right?

Starting point is 01:54:52 It's anybody to deny that is full of crap. You know, we're all that way. And so how do we thread that needle? In your work within the Pentagon and things that you were read in on or things you heard about secondhand from other teams or things that your team directly worked on i i don't want to just like put the name darpa on this but things that are like that or or related programs including obviously darpa which works on look we got really cool toys I'm like I mean we do I can't talk about them but we got some really really cool advanced toys now I've heard from

Starting point is 01:55:29 different people I've had through here like I don't want to say like consensus but you know sometimes the estimation seems to fall in the range of DARPA could have stuff that's 40 50 years ahead of us which when you extrapolate that across i think it's moore's law like that gets a little crazy obviously that said if we could start with the statement that mathematically speaking we could agree looking at just even what we know of the size of the galaxy the idea that we are alone is the only intelligent life is impossible if not almost impossible and i would actually argue that maybe we're not intelligent at all so sure if you're looking for intelligent life earth may not be the place to look just Just bear with me here though. I say that because if we could just agree on that for a second and assume that we're not alone and then say,

Starting point is 01:56:15 we're open to the possibility of whether or not we've been visited or visited by future humans or whatever, but we're not even going to necessarily say whether that's true or false right now. At the third layer of that, the thing that I think we can be very confident exists is high-level advanced weaponry, and I hope we in the United States unbiased have the best stuff. people like you, people like any of the other people we've mentioned who maybe know that kind of stuff, to be able to use a topic like UAP that may very well be real and say, let's get the focus of the people on that because we don't want China and Russia and these other countries to know about – I'm just going to put random names on this. I don't know, anti-gravity type technology that we may have. Could you see why there's people who might think oh this might be a dis it might be a distraction campaign rooted in some truth i can but that it would be the hardest

Starting point is 01:57:10 way to do it you don't need to if you want to galvanize the american people look at 9-11 we got attacked what happened we went to war global war on terror right and so we literally went to war in afghanistan and iraq in essence because of the predicate of an event that happened in 9-11 you have to lie to people about it same thing with this topic if you want more money to compete against russia or china the best thing to do is tell the american people they're ahead of us you don't need to create some cockamamie story that there's uap that's not what i'm saying that's let me be more clear i wasn't i wasn't clear on that assume you don't need more money assume you just know you have x technology whatever the fuck that is here and you don't

Starting point is 01:57:45 want that information being looked into you don't want adversaries spying on this or trying to find a way to spy on a thread that could get them to that thing right you use a public campaign to distract people from whatever that is to create i don't know like an end around see i think i think it's it's the opposite i think by doing that you're going to create more curiosity more foreign intelligence involvement look it's it's no it's no secret that russia and china have their own program and had their own program in fact the china south morning sun i believe it was a chinese china south morning sun newspaper article had something called the five continents initiative where they were actually proposing to the united nations to run the world's ufo investigative body right so you you don't need

Starting point is 01:58:31 if you want to keep something secret what you don't do is call attention to it and by talking about uap and people speculating well maybe we've reversed engineer maybe we learn that's the last thing you want to do because now you're putting people onto the trail now other governments will be like oh so america knows something about this and maybe they have the advantage, right? And then, of course, they're going to apply all their intelligence collection efforts to try to figure you out. Okay, but what if it's not – sorry to cut you off, but I got to play this. What if it's not anti-gravity and that's the whole point? We're trying to act like, oh, no, don't look at that anti-gravity over there when in reality maybe the thing we're working on is ai okay and we have some

Starting point is 01:59:09 crazy ai that they don't know we have and now they're not guessing that we have that because they think oh my god they might read oh no no no intel intel doesn't work that way intel is very specific man intel is spoken like a true window. Look, if you've got an understanding that country X or country Y has got a certain capability, no matter what they say publicly, it's not going to change. I'll give you a case in point. Look, Russians have something called a supercavitational torpedo. A what? Supercavitational. I'm only saying things that are in a public domain, so I'm not going to talk about spill secrets here.

Starting point is 01:59:42 What a name. But type in- Supercavitational security. so there you go super cavitating torpedo um you know coming up with a cockamamie story to try to divert countries from collecting that capable that that technology we already know it exists so no matter what they say we're going to continue focusing right but if they say we don't mean exists. I mean any type of intelligence organization in another country who wants that type of technology is going to continue collecting no matter what type of story Putin or the Kremlin try to come up with, right? The cat's out of the bag. We know this capability exists. If the cat wasn't – again, technology X.

Starting point is 02:00:23 Let's even forget what it is. Technology X exists and the cat is not out of the bag on that. Then you wouldn't even come up with a story because it's protected. Why would you come up with a diversion? That's way over here. That's way over here, but for something that hasn't been compromised yet. It's all you're doing. Proactively.

Starting point is 02:00:39 Yeah, but even if you're over here, you're still creating a diversion where eventually second and third order effects, you might wind up getting back to this technology, this capability saying, oh, this is just the Americans trying to do a show game with us. Right. These are all as, you know, analysts in the intelligence community are really, really good at looking at the second and third order consequences. If we do this, they'll do this. If we do that, they'll do that. And if we do over here, then they'll come over on this side. That's all part of it. You don't, if you don't want to, here's a perfect example. You have a anniversary ring that you have for your significant other, but you don't want that person to know that you bought them an anniversary ring and you're going to propose, right? So what you're not going to do is start acting all spooky by saying, oh, in the living room, don't look over there because I have, you know, you're not going to mention it at all because she's like, oh, you're acting kind of strange. Or he might be like, that's weird. Why are you

Starting point is 02:01:35 acting the way you're acting? What are you hiding, right? And now suspicion goes, and now they're going to be sensitized to trying to find what you're doing, what you're trying to hide, right? They're looking at it like, oh, that's nonsense. That person's acting weird for a reason, right? And now you, you are creating suspicion where there was no suspicion before. So to, to do that, I think would be counterproductive. I certainly, if I was ever leading an operation, I would never make the recommendation to come up with a cover story as a diversion preemptively.

Starting point is 02:02:02 I would have waited until I know that, okay, they know something about something. So let's go ahead and do what we have to do right now to stop that. But there's a lot of risk in trying to create some sort of preemptive cover story. Could it be done? It can, but you'd have to have everything go exactly the way you want every time you want for that story to be sold i mean and that you'd have to have a lot of people a lot of approval all the way up the chain of command we're just not that good yeah i see what you're saying i think i think it's a complicated subject matter because there's context that you know especially not even existing in that world i can't even conceive of.

Starting point is 02:02:51 That said, we have seen an unprecedented move as we mentioned multiple times today and it's talked about all the time in the media where since 2017, we've seen people like you who have quote unquote walked out of the government and started to discuss this stuff. And recently, we had the – in 2023,id grush came out and gave testimony of things that he was able to uncover through research that not necessarily he was standing in front of you know in some cases he was but like he wasn't there in 1933 right correct you know the magenta yes correct so he then may have had access to certain things and seen certain things, but he has this – there's like this crush group of 43 whistleblowers or whatever that supposedly are attached to him that are slowly coming out. A great sit down with him where he went through this whole thing for I think like three hours running through his story where it got interesting because here you had essentially like a pilot who worked within – Special operations. worked for a contractor right on for projects on behalf of the government where he claims that he was a part of crash retrievals and recovering things that are not of these are of this earth

Starting point is 02:04:15 which i will actually defend him and say the way that he said he came up with that if i understood it correctly is that he it was his opinion when he looked at it was not of this earth. It wasn't like, you know, someone came to him and said, that's not of this earth. That was his personal observation. Right. So maybe devil's advocate for him, it could be some crazy advanced technology with this egg thing that, you know, he doesn't know about. Remember the words of Arthur C. Clarke, right? He said, no, any advanced technology would appear like magic yes okay all right yes i am familiar with that so it could mean like you might look at advanced technology and not even be able to conceive it and think that that's extraterrestrial that said what do you think of this guy's testimony well i don't know i

Starting point is 02:04:59 never met him um i can tell you that some of the special operators who i do know personally have worked with him um and have validated his story um i don't know it's just like when people ask me about bob lazar i've never met the gentleman and so i my opinion really doesn't count i think i think he's telling his truth i think he is you know first of all very brave to come out to have this conversation knowing the crap that he's gonna and have to endure um and he's already had to endure. As a former military person and special operator, he automatically has my respect.

Starting point is 02:05:32 Now, does that mean he's always right or he's perfect? No. I mean, he's human, just like me and you and everybody else. But I do applaud him for his courage to come forward. I think he is doing what he feels is right. Again, I do not know him personally, but I think it's important that anybody who comes out as a whistleblower, we need to give them their day in court. We need to – they have a voice. They earned it.

Starting point is 02:06:05 Unfortunately, there are some people that have come out previously where it turns out maybe they didn't have quite the access that they, you know, said they had or something to that effect. Do you have an example of that? Again, I, you know, I don't like to talk about people. You know, I, I, I don't, there's this, this community has for many, many years talked about whistleblowers going back to the 1970s. And so, you know, I, I can only speak from, from my perspective and I'm certainly not going to throw anybody under the bus, uh, especially if I wasn't there, you know, so, you know, if I wasn't there to witness their story, most people say, oh, that's BS. But well, if you're not there to witness it, then how can you say it's BS? You can't just like you can't say it's real. Right. Um, so I prefer to, you know, address, address Jake for, for what he did do.

Starting point is 02:06:45 And we do know his military background and it's legitimate. And he was – he is who he says he is. So that all checks out. And the people that I know personally who I would be willing to go to combat with have vouched for him. But again, I wasn't there. So my involvement in this topic was completely different. Mine was more Pentagon nuts and bolts, you know, um, big picture programmatics where his involvement allegedly was far more neurons on the ground, actual recovery. Right.

Starting point is 02:07:15 You know? And so, um, but you know, he's got the, he's got the pedigree. He's got the military pedigree. And by the way, as a special operator, you're the best of the best. You have, you're subject to routine psychological evaluations, polygraph examinations, drug testing, right? And you've got to pass every one of them and all of them. A thing that bothers me that I run into with literally every single one of these guys, I probably run into it with you. But again, like you said, you were more in the office part of this rather than some of these like actual on the ground things that happen. So specifically with the guys who are talking about shit on the ground is when

Starting point is 02:07:48 they come out and they whistle blow on something and they say something that at first thought just sounds fucking crazy. Like Barbara coming out and saying, yeah, I picked up a fucking NHI vehicle with my helicopter and you know, by the way, I did it for a contractor on behalf of the government. Here you go.

Starting point is 02:08:04 That's fucking crazy. That would seem like the biggest secret ever that someone coming out and saying that would never even get the chance to say because the deep forces of the government would kill them before. Like it sounds like that kind of thing. But then the same guy will then say – he'll start talking about some firefight that happened that might have involved some of these, I don't know, retrievals or projects existing around it and be like, oh, I can't talk about that. Like how do we – you're out here talking about retrieving a fucking alien craft and leaking an alleged video, which the video didn't do him justice. There's a difference between reporting on advanced technologies and reporting on war crimes. That's a different issue altogether. So if you're talking about a firefight, you know,

Starting point is 02:08:48 between friendly forces, that's a whole different issue. Again, hypothetically, that's an example. Also, you know, let's not forget that claims that sounded ridiculous at the time in certain things turned out to be true. So case in point, you know, CIA,

Starting point is 02:09:07 when they were experimenting with LSD and administering it to unsuspecting people, long K old traction, maybe right. Or perhaps the syphilis experiments where we had a cure for, for syphilis and let, and yet we allowed people to go and progress the entire stages and die from it your government that look there's a report that just came out last week from the cia

Starting point is 02:09:30 you want to pull it up it's it's it's unbelievable about the syphilis stuff no worse where the cia actually was going to blow up a a military boat in havana harbor as a predicate in order to go ahead and invade cuba this just came out FOIA. FOIA? Yeah. They let this out? So type in CIA military boat Cuba. There you go.

Starting point is 02:09:53 And look at the report that came out. Well, that's Operation Mongoose. No. We know that one. Yeah, that's right. Who planned bomb plot and Cuba invasion? There you go. Okay.

Starting point is 02:10:02 Wow. And the CIA admitted it, and they released the report. And they said, it's okay if we go ahead and kill a bunch of americans because we're going to piss off the american people we can blame cuba they would never do that come on now it's in black and white and with you oh i didn't write that damn thing dullis come on you would never do such a thing so you know this is this is. And if you go, you can see actually a news report on it, and you can see they did a big. But, you know, this is, yeah, go to news. Type in CIA report. Yeah, put CIA report, and then put in U.S. military.

Starting point is 02:10:45 Vote Cuba? Yeah, there you go. Senator Cuba, legacy, dedicated diplomacy towards normalization. Pentagon, DX show, deep state. There you go. Fears, release of JFK files. Hit that one, Daily Mail. Yep. Chilling Pentagon document reveals war-provoking reason deep State has always feared release of JFK assassination files.

Starting point is 02:11:08 Chilling Pentagon documents may reveal why the Deep State has always feared the release of the files. A 12-page report signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1962 details a secret plan to commit heinous acts against American citizens to justify war with Cuba in the 1960s. Codename – oh, yeah. Are we talking about Operation Northwoods? So this just got declassified? Yeah. This is old news old news yeah yeah so the problem is now they're releasing it right yeah now they're releasing it but yeah we we read this we've read some of this stuff on podcast before but yeah exactly like they were doing all kinds of shit so people say oh that's shocking that would never happen no who's who the fuck says that yeah i mean look there's a real there we are at the crux and this issue is

Starting point is 02:11:49 just one of the many on the on the you know spinning wheel of issues related to it if you're talking about ufos there's just one little nugget here but we are we are in this moment where the institution exposure at every level i'm'm talking in private society, government, everything has gotten so bad with the internet and access to old files and people being able to talk about on social media that, and, and things have gone so wrong in the last 20 years too, that the trust level is at a zero with many people. Yeah. The faith and confidence is at an all time low with, with our government. And, um faith and confidence is at an all-time low with our government. And I do think this new administration recognizes that and is trying to repair some of

Starting point is 02:12:32 that by following through on what they said they were going to do. I do see them making a proactive effort to try to do that, trying to restore some of the faith and confidence. Well, let's bring it full circle back to Tulsi, where we talked about at the very beginning of this conversation. Through no fault of her own, she's been someone who's already, long before she was ever nominated for this position, has been attacked by, say, forces within the existing government and bureaucratic structure. So not to say that she doesn't per se- By the way, I know how that feels. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying not to say she doesn't come in with the best intentions she may very well be coming in with the best intentions but isn't isn't it cynically also looking at it and knowing how the government works

Starting point is 02:13:13 as a citizen who sees this from the outside wouldn't it be fair for me to say they're going to treat her like a mushroom feed her shit keep her in the dark because the same people that tried to like destroy her are now supposed to report to her and they're the ones – their whole job is to be covert and intel where she's not on the ground with them. She doesn't know what they're doing. A lot of those people are being removed. I don't know if you've been keeping up with the news lately. Yeah, some of them are. But this administration is canning the hell out of a lot of people that were trying to sequester the truth in all sorts of different topics right um i if you if you know

Starting point is 02:13:46 a little bit about you know again if you were to to i think actually meet tulsi the one thing that you realize is that she's fearless she she does not care about breaking china um you know i've i've there's a couple people that i've always kind of felt, you know, sometimes you need a bull in the China shop, right? And, and sometimes, you know, you need, you need a proverbial hand grenade in the, in the, in the punch bowl, right? To, to fix things. And also it helps that if you have an understanding of how government works, so then you can fix those problems, right? You don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We're not trying to rebuild the intelligence community. We're just trying to make it work better the way it was designed to, you know? And unfortunately, the challenge is

Starting point is 02:14:34 when you were in government, you have a responsibility. You inherit this car and all of a sudden this car that you paid a thousand bucks for, you realize it's got a blown radiator, the water pump shot maybe you're you're missing cylinder number seven for whatever reason it's not firing and you got these problems um most of the time you have the ability to take it to the shop and fix it the problem is we can't do that we we have to figure out a way to fix the car while we're driving it at 80 miles an hour down the highway and so to do that you don't want to just start mucking around the engine and and tearing crap out that's going to make it even worse right what you want to do is fix the problem and so in order to fix a problem and have a solution

Starting point is 02:15:13 you first need to understand how it works how does the engine work how does it relate to the transmission how does it relate to the cooling system how does it relate to all these things right so as you're trying to fix the car while you're driving down the road, you don't break something inadvertently that makes it even worse. And so, you know, people say, well, with that government background, is it kind of a fox in the henhouse situation? Well, yeah, that's the risk you take.

Starting point is 02:15:34 That's why you have to look at the person's track record. That's why you have to look at a person's capabilities and their strengths and their weaknesses and their skill sets. And in this case, you have somebody who understands intel, understands military, understands government, understands politics and the legislative branch,

Starting point is 02:15:47 pretty much checks all the blocks. And if you were having somebody for a job interview, you'd be like, hey, you know what? You kind of check all the blocks. And then, you know, you have personality, the ability to communicate with other people in a fair and open way.

Starting point is 02:16:01 And look, I'm going to get a bunch of crap for this because people, you know, just the mere fact that, that she was a Democrat and now Republican, uh, they're going to be all over me for this. Uh, you know, so my, my endorsement of her isn't a political endorsement. It is an operational and experience endorsement. She has what is necessary to do the job. Now you may not like her. Okay, fine. You're entitled to that. And you may not like the fact that she said this or said it that way or whatever. That's fine. But you can't deny the fact that she was very effective as a leader and accomplished and achieved more despite the challenges, right? So I want someone like that in my government to help help make the necessary changes someone who's not going

Starting point is 02:16:47 to be overly gun shy who understands how the government works and how to fix the car without breaking it anymore do you think that and by the way that's just there's a lot of people right now in government that i feel that way about it's not just not just tulsi yeah i mean obviously i'm we're talking about tulsa gabbard because you brought it up, but there's other individuals as well that I'm extremely hopeful for. Is there anyone you'd care to name with that? No, only because you brought it up. I mentioned it, but again, I want to respect the privacy of anybody who's coming into this administration. I do not want to affect their ability to do their job one way or the other.

Starting point is 02:17:27 But there's quite a few folks that are really going to try their best to make a change, and I see it. And I know it from personal experience, seeing their track record, looking at their engagement on the Hill. They're no-nonsense people. Have you talked with anyone in the incoming administration at length about things like remote viewing? You know, again, I'm not going to talk about what I may or may not have said to anybody in the incoming administration. Um, that would be for them to answer. Uh, I want to give them, uh, the full ability. I want to respect their authority. Um, and I'm not a kiss and tell kind of guy. I'm not going to go there. Um, again'm i'm not gonna go there um again all due

Starting point is 02:18:05 respect i know it's a great question but it's like you know you and i having this interview right now and then someone when i get home saying hey what'd you guys talk about in the car you know what's your business yeah you know you want to know ask ask julian you know i know you're curious and just don't take offense to it but but it's it's it's a part of a conversation that occurred between two people and you know that that other person has a vote maybe they don't want people to know right that we had a conversation because uh they had a conversation with lou the ufo guy right so um i'll i'll do a play pass on that question okay well you and i talked about that at the very end last time and you had to get out of here so we didn't get to spend we didn't get to spend a lot of time on it but there's there's a lot of scrutiny on this stuff because people from the

Starting point is 02:18:47 outside they hear about something like remote viewing which you know is essentially being able to see other things around the world or seeing the future in some ways and and they're like how the fuck could that exist and yet we had something like project stargate where you know and grill flame before that and what before that grill flame what was that but it's it was the natural so stargate was really one of the last code names it was used there were several names before that and these are guys like joe mcmonacle was involved with that and they you know claimed to be able to see things and you wrote about it in your book how like you remote viewed and my my the thing that was i was looking at the page and kind of going

Starting point is 02:19:25 on that a little bit was you know you made it sound like oh yeah anyone could do this and i don't when i talked with you about it i think we talked about that offline a little bit at one point it you didn't describe it that way you know like like meaning when it the way it sounded when i was reading the words in the book is that it sounded you were like yeah fucking anyone could do this i do believe that i think most people can do it absolutely so i don't think it's i don't so i totally misunderstood you off air it must have been because i i think most people can do it i think it's actually a very i don't think it's anything new in fact i think it's probably related to some sort of vestigial capability we had as as ancient humans because you think most people

Starting point is 02:20:08 could see halfway around the world right now and i think if you understand yeah i don't think it's i don't think it's will i think it's all based in quantum mechanics physics can you explain that yeah sure so let's um let me let me give you an example um you ever smoke cigars of course okay so let me give you an example we now realize we live we live in a three-dimensional space right you can think of the way our space is as as three axis x axis y axis and z axis meaning up down left right forward and backward and you can navigate in a three-dimensional space that way time is experienced a little bit differently even though it's considered a dimension, we experience time as linear, as in always going forward, right?

Starting point is 02:20:52 And the classic models of physics, for example, when I was in school, we learned about the electron orbiting around the nucleus of an atom. Turns out that's not really accurate. Turns out that there's this weird duality principle that the electron is, they call an electron cloud because you can never actually predict the exact location of an electron in fact some scientists now predict that an electron is so small that it's actually zipping in and out of the existence of our universe trillions of times per second and so there it's therefore it is there and not all at the same time so take that

Starting point is 02:21:25 principle now let's look at time itself we know for a fact time is is is inextricably tied to space right you can't have one without the other in essence space and time that's what we call it space time and we know that space time is flexible that fact. In fact, if you look at a ground station here, a GPS ground station with an atomic cesium clock, and compare it to the atomic cesium clock, exactly the same, same exact atomic decay half-life as the clock on the spacecraft, you're gonna realize there's something called atomic drift.

Starting point is 02:21:59 Time is experienced differently. The watch actually runs differently the further you are away from a massive object in this case earth okay so mass and energy can affect space time and again it's not just space it's space and time so let's let's look at that for a minute let's look at a cigar imagine if i were to ask you, Julian, give me your simplest one sentence or less, few words possible. What's your definition of the past? Of the past? Of the past. What's your definition of the past? Things that already happened. Great. Things that have occurred, right? What is then by that same type of thinking, what would your definition of the

Starting point is 02:22:43 future be? Things that haven't yet occurred. Haven't happened yet, right? So what is the present? Well, the present is actually very elusive. The present actually isn't a moment in time. It's actually a transition process where the future becomes the past. And we live in that moment.

Starting point is 02:23:02 And probably it's an infinitesimal moment of space-time that's probably measured in playing time, right? And so let's go back to our cigar analogy. Imagine the ashes of the cigar as being the past. You can't put it back together. It's burnt. Imagine that part of the cigar that hasn't burnt yet, the tobacco leaf that moment of ignition. It's the cherry. It's the fire where the future, the tobacco leaf is being consumed and turned into ash. And so if you were to look at that cigar, it's burning or a cigarette, and you had the ability to kind of remove some of the glare and focus really in on that moment of ignition, that cherry, that transition process between tobacco leaf and ash, you would notice that the cigar burns unevenly. It doesn't burn evenly. There's moments at the very, very finest point, smallest point where it becomes hard to distinguish between the future and the past because it burns unevenly. And so using that analogy, some have speculated that remote viewing is really where some people experience the present where that cherry is maybe a little bit bigger where more of the future and more of the past is being experienced as now and that this is probably related to quantum mechanics

Starting point is 02:24:14 and quantum entanglement more so than it is you know the woo-woo stuff that people ascribe it to and in fact if you talk to some, pardon me, some neuroscientists, some actually believe that human consciousness is a quantum process. And you can look it up online. And it's not world according to Lewis. You're taking the words out of my mouth. Keep going. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:24:34 So, so if that's the case, then no wonder some people can experience the present with more elements of the future and the past as if it's happening now. And even more so importantly, that this may be something that a lot of living things have have you ever seen when two dogs walk into a room there's this non-verbal communication that is occurring why because they haven't developed the language now we are lazy as human beings we've developed language to the point now where you and i can communicate but the reality is there was a time where we

Starting point is 02:25:03 couldn't depending what village i came from or what cave I came from, I would never be able to communicate with you because I don't have the same language. We didn't develop the same, right? And so is there another form of communication that's more innate, that's more primitive that we relied on for our survival way back when, before we had verbal communication and these little things called cell phones and global devices that allowed us to communicate with one another, was there another way to do it? And some people have speculated, well, you know, the closer you get to your spouse, it's weird because all of a sudden now I've been with that person for seven years and, you know, I'm overseas.

Starting point is 02:25:37 I give them a call and they're like, oh my God, I was just thinking of you. I was just going to call you, right? Maybe that's really more in line with where remote viewing comes from it's it's it's where space and time is not necessarily experienced linearly um but maybe a little bit more like the electron cloud versus an electron orbit around the nucleus if we're also capable of it though why doesn't it happen way more maybe it does i mean how often do people so that's such a coincidence well was it i mean so someone around the world was like making that happen well that's it deliberately look here's another case

Starting point is 02:26:13 my background medical program was microbiology immunology and um and pens And pens. And pens. Look, when you're in the hospital and you get into a severe accident, what is the one way we know if you are truly alive or not? The heart monitor. Well, it's more than that, actually, because you can be kept artificially alive, right? It's brain activity. And how do we detect brain activity where there are biochemical reactions that occur and bio electrical more importantly reactions that occur in the brain and we can put sensors and we can detect brain wave activity to determine if someone is brain dead or not right that's the decision to pull the plug. So we know we can pick

Starting point is 02:27:07 up these invisible signals, just like radio transmissions from the human brain. We do it all the time at every hospital out there, just about. Is it possible that we know the brains give off communication signals? That's a fact. Is it possible that some people can actually also interpret that or like an antenna? So not only only transmit a signal but also receive a signal like a radio right and if that's the case then would that explain some of these things where people say oh what a coincidence well maybe it wasn't maybe you guys are just synchronized now and we're like deja vu type things right possibly as well right so there's a whole area of exploration here that I think scientists are now beginning to look at and realize that was once considered woo is probably just biological. And it's probably not as uncommon as we think it is.

Starting point is 02:27:53 And it might be even shared with other species too. For people who did not hear episode 237 with you, can you just briefly explain? Well, that was the last time we were in here. I think that was like three hours and 21 minutes the fact that you know that is is incredible yeah so i think it was like the last eight or nine minutes that episode we discussed this but you're you laid this out in in your book imminent you had your remote viewing experience involved you i guess i i don't know how you describe it but like peering into where there were terrorist prisoners and then they describe like a ghost dancing above them or

Starting point is 02:28:33 something can you just explain this again i want to make sure i get that yeah i mean i want to be really careful because i'm going to get a lot of crap for this yeah a lot okay well we've already been talking for two and a half hours there's already a lot of crap in the comments. You're okay. Oh, lovely. I'm sorry you have to endure that. I don't care. You guys are actually watching the comments live.

Starting point is 02:28:51 Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. You just can't look at them. I know. Don't worry about it. Yeah. So for me, it was like, let me see if I can describe it like a vivid memory that's probably the best way i can describe it um there's aspects that become fuzzy but you try to dial in on and then

Starting point is 02:29:13 there's aspects that come in with a lot of clarity uh where are you when this is happening right here physically right no no but like where were you the day you remote viewed? Well, for that particular moment, we were in a skiff at the Pentagon. Okay. And we were – I got cleared so I guess I can talk about it. Some colleagues of mine took a lunch, did a brown bag lunch. I had been to Gitmo before, to the prisons and various camps there. And we decided to do an experiment and see if we could remote view

Starting point is 02:29:51 a particular detainee. And so we conducted this experiment. And shortly thereafter, one of my colleagues came in with a newspaper article in the Miami Herald where there was a complaint through the person's defense team that he felt like he was being tormented. as they described it as a secret CIA program that had been established to torment one of these individuals. First of all, I'll tell you, it was not a CIA program. It was lunch bag in the skiff. It was lunch bag in the skiff. And because of what this newspaper article came out with, we stopped immediately.

Starting point is 02:30:47 We did not need to create any type of issues regarding these particular detainees or their defense teams. There are some potentially moral issues. How did they even come up with that, Lou? Like how did they come up with that, trace that back to like you guys did? I don't know. And if you want to look, there's a newspaper article if you really want to see it. Yeah. So type in.

Starting point is 02:31:15 Miami Herald. Miami Herald. You know what? I don't want to say this on air, so can I type something there for you real quick? Sure. See what pops up. Lou's going to pop around to the big board, take over for Alessi for a minute. I just don't want to –

Starting point is 02:31:27 We're going to give you a producer credit on this. Don't worry. I got you. Never a dull moment in the studio with Lou Elizondo. Right there. Go for it. Yeah, that board, not that one. That's right.

Starting point is 02:31:38 Is there a way where you can just see the results? Yes, on that screen that you're on right there. So don't drag it onto the other screen. And I just want to lose doing this I know we had to blue balls you earlier With what he showed me on the phone But it's not what you think It was just Very out of left field

Starting point is 02:31:57 Certainly not a You saw the John Kiriakou thing Right Alessi? I showed you that picture when he showed me On camera and we couldn't show it on camera? Of Abuzu Beta? Oh, yeah. Yeah, nothing, not even remotely close to that. But fascinating stuff, I'll put it that way.

Starting point is 02:32:20 Okay, so tell us what we can read there. Yeah, he doesn't have a title in it. He doesn't what? He doesn't have the search engine where he is. It's just the article. Okay, cool. So I can read this? Yeah, but look, let me preface this.

Starting point is 02:32:34 Okay. You know, I don't know if I, you know, I certainly don't want to say I'm responsible for that because. You have no responsibility. Okay. Defense lawyer to Guantanamo judge. Secret program may be depriving 9-11 defendant of sleep. Okay. Now, first of all, people already accuse me of heinous, horrible things at Guantanamo Bay.

Starting point is 02:33:00 So this is obviously not helping me. People are going to think that – but you asked a direct question. I'm trying to be as transparent as possible so but i know i'm going to get a lot of well you mention it in your i mean to your credit you mention it in your book like what the nickname was and all that so like there's a part of you that's like people are going to say what they're going to say i guess i guess on that one you kind of accept that in that way not necessarily agree with the title but accept that people are going to say what they're going to say. Yeah, and nothing you can do about it. I mean, that's what –

Starting point is 02:33:27 Okay. All right. So an attorney for the accused 9-11 plotter who has complained about strange overnight noises and vibrations in his prison cell for years told a military judge Sunday that the problem was back and that it may be caused by a covert Pentagon program disclosed to the court just last week. Oh, so it was disclosed to the court just last week. Oh, so it was disclosed to the court. Death penalty defender Jim Harrington raised the issue in a rare Sunday session of pretrial hearings in the September 11 terror trial seeking to delay a conflict question in favor of a forensic examination the noises and vibrations said to be experienced by alleged terrorist Ramzi bin al-Shib were known to his Army guards. Not necessarily, Harrington replied. It's a very, very sophisticated program. The exchange was the latest in the court effort to talk about the things at the secret prison in public without going into details. The program was so clandestine the prosecutors knew about it, but the judge didn't until last week. And that's not true. The prosecutors did not know.

Starting point is 02:34:34 That's not correct. This was an attempt by I think the defense team to – this was a legal maneuver to try to cast shade on on the on the prosecution team okay yeah so it goes on people can based on what i read they can google just the words i said and they'll probably find it so that's fine but that's god i'm so confused because like to even know about that means that someone had to tip him off. Yeah, there's other, yeah, there's other. Yeah, look, I can't talk about it. Obviously, we were very concerned and very disappointed by that. You know, it was not an officially sanctioned thing.

Starting point is 02:35:16 It wasn't that, you know, I want to be very clear here. You know, this was an experiment. It's so hard for me to conceive of that. Yeah. And like your explanation of like quantum mechanics, just because, I mean, maybe there's this involuntary thing that happens where people are doing it and I'm doing it sometimes and don't even know I'm doing it and I affect something halfway around the world.

Starting point is 02:35:42 In this case, though, you're sitting in the skiff going let's do it right like there's not exactly like that but there's a play i mean where your feet cross like how are we doing it press style that's you know it's it's part of my life i don't look it's it's already weird enough um i i try to be as no nonsense as possible yeah you know it it doesn't help when you know look we live in an awfully big universe very complex yeah and things that seem kind of weird and woo um you know could just be that it's our lack of understanding right it's like uh imagine being in 1860 and explaining to somebody wi-fi invisible signals through the air that you have a magic box and now all of a sudden you can play music anytime you want. Right.

Starting point is 02:36:30 That sounds crazy. Yep. Uh, but it's not a science. Um, so yeah, that's about all I can say about that. Um, I, I look, I realize it's, it's, it's, it's a weird conversation. Yeah. You know, I, I, I conversation. I'm not ignorant to that fact. And at the end of the day, I can't tell you how it kinda project still exist just under some different name and we don't know about it is covert and assuming you didn't know about it well I can't

Starting point is 02:37:15 assume a facility because up my security clearance so I'm just what I'm gonna do is simply say I I would not be able to comment if there is a government program existing to do certain things. I don't have permission to discuss that. If I did or didn't, I confirm or deny. I cannot. But it is fair to say it's definitely not a perfect science.

Starting point is 02:37:37 Of course not. No, it's subjective. It should never be considered unilateral. If you get something, you could be dead wrong. So it should just be yet, just like all intelligence, right? So you have human intelligence. What happens when you place more emphasis on one form of intelligence over another? Well, you get bias, right? So that's why like Operation Curveball with our human source that we had in Iraq, you never rely on a single

Starting point is 02:38:00 source of intelligence ever, whether it's human, MN, SIG, it doesn't matter, right? Or certainly remote viewing. It's subjective. So, you know, I would tell anybody, it's like, oh, is it like looking through a crystal ball? Not at all. No. And I definitely would never, ever promote the idea of relying on it as a single source, ever. It should be there to maybe help support.

Starting point is 02:38:20 Now, there's examples where, for example, remote viewers for the US government found a supersonic experimental jet that the Russians were testing over Africa. And I believe it crashed in Congo. And it was – despite our best airborne capabilities and maybe other capabilities, we couldn't find it. And neither could the Russians. It was remote viewers that found the aircraft. No, I believe there's something there i like some of the things i've heard like there's something there yeah exactly now what it is i don't know if anybody knows that answer i certainly don't i can't say oh it works this way and that way and there's other people that tell you hey methods

Starting point is 02:38:58 vary yeah you know what works for me may not work for you and what works for you may not work for me you know there's a time they used to do ideograms and that didn't do crap for me may not work for you, and what works for you may not work for me. There's a time when they used to do ideograms, and that didn't do crap for me. I mean, it was not helpful at all. Never worked for me. There's something – I'm more open-minded on not necessarily like remote viewing itself, but like this whole subcategory of what the capabilities of our consciousness is because of – Well, you remember the oracles of Delphi, right? wait yes i do know that name what is that yeah these were the ancient soothsayers and beware the ides of march right yes you know this is nothing new remote viewing has been in practice for a long time by by countries and governments and militaries

Starting point is 02:39:42 spanning thousands of years you can call it what you want, but, you know, remote viewing today or a soothsaying yesterday or the oracles of Delphi or Nostradamus or whatever you want to put in there term. But it's all maybe describing the same thing. You know, have you seen this podcast that went viral from the fall called the telepathy tapes? I have not seen it. And I haven't on purpose. I should say I heard of itathy tapes i have not seen it and i haven't on purpose i should say i heard of it but i have not at all listened to it and i did on purpose because i don't want to i want to be careful i don't i don't prejudice the jury so to speak meaning i don't want to have someone else's analytic overlay subconsciously be incorporated

Starting point is 02:40:21 by me okay so have you talked with people about this though about the telepathy yeah like not okay no so it it has warped my mind a little bit just because of the way that this this woman kai dickens was able to gather some of this data essentially and i'm really dumbing this down here like it's an amazing series i highly recommend everyone go listen to the full thing but she had heard about all these reports from people around the world who were reporting how their autistic non-verbal kids or brother or whatever could communicate telepathically and you hear that and you're like oh yeah yeah okay and then you hear some of the experiments she did with you know a doctor on site a scientist on site these double blind i'm getting some of the terminology wrong but these things she did where these kids seem like they can do that, and it makes you wonder if –

Starting point is 02:41:26 Oh, brother, I mean the Russians had the Psychotronic Weapons Development Program. I mean – What's that? That is using – creating technology to amplify brain capability to affect change, matter, and physical change in things. So – How effective was it? Type it up. You tell me.

Starting point is 02:41:43 Okay. What's it called again? Russian Psychotronic Weapons Development Program. so how effective was it type it up you look you tell me okay what's it called again russian psychotronic weapons development program look it up on on your little thing there god what a cool name russian psychotronic weapons development program oh that's a bond movie all right zombie ray gun program does that ring a bell i mean well go right there since kgb and soviet go down with about three cia there you go that's from the cia not lou elizondo so you can read it for yourself so you got to zoom in a little bit of less that's really small all right

Starting point is 02:42:14 go up all right psychotronic weapon weapon dupes kgb and soviet military highlights of foreign ground combat developments. In a 21 April 1993 Literatura Gazeta interview, Yevgeny Alexandrov of the Villanova Optical Institute revealed that experiments conducted in the former Soviet Union on mine-altering weapons were largely a hoax intended to milk millions of rubles from the KGB and the military. Alexandrov, in commenting on the validity of psychotronic weapons research, stated, the whole thing was a grandiose snow job, a monstrous squandering of the national wealth. This work, fortunately for humanity, did not have any real content. It was an imitation of work science like shamanism. The military and KGB were simply taken for a ride.

Starting point is 02:43:06 So this is important because this shows definitively that not only were the Russians investing in this, but it's enough interest in the CIA that we actually reported on it, right? But they got duped. Well, okay, so this is a report that's saying they got duped. You'll see other reports where they say they didn't get duped. The Russians say, no, it actually worked quite well. We had our own psychotronic weapons development program because of it so yes that's right so because the russians were doing it we did it too so it's important to

Starting point is 02:43:35 note that like for example go to um yeah there you go uh weird russian wired weird russian mind control research behind it to go down a little bit. Yeah, one more. Hit that. The Weird Russian Mind Control Research behind a DHS contract, a dungeon-like room in the Psychotechnology Research Institute in Moscow is used for human testing. The institute claims its technology can read the subconscious mind and alter behavior. A dungeon-like room inside... All right, so Elena Rusakina, the silver-haired woman who runs the institute, gestured to the center of the claustrophobic room where what looked like a dentist chair

Starting point is 02:44:14 sits in front of a glowing computer monitor. We've had volunteers, a lot of them, she said. The thick concrete was muffling the noise from the college campus outside. We worked out a program, a psychiatric facility to study criminals. There's no way to falsify the results. There's no subjectivism. The Department of Homeland Security has gone to many strange places in search for ways to identify terrorists before they attack, but perhaps none stranger than this lab on the outskirts of Russia's

Starting point is 02:44:37 capital. The institute has for years served as the center of an obscure field of human behavior study dubbed psychoecology that traces its roots back to soviet era mind control research so my point is that people took this enough seriously not just in russia but the u.s yeah okay so don't but those are literally this is nonsense don't blame me we spent taxpayer money on it you know that wasn't my decision to do that you know people like to like to kind of paint me with a broad brush and say it you know that wasn't my decision to do that you know people like to like to kind of paint me with a broad brush and say well you know it's a bunch of hooey that wasn't my decision to do that i had no you know those decisions were made by very very senior people

Starting point is 02:45:15 that thought it was worth investing in right so you know maybe the execution was could have been better i don't know but the bottom line is that there is enough there, there to say, Hey, maybe we should look into this a little bit, right? Maybe there's, there's, there's something there. Um, but again, I'm not going to sit here and tell you how, I don't know, you know, but if someone comes up to you and says, Hey, Julian, you know, um, I had this weird feeling that you are a BMXer as a kid, you like bikes and wanted to BMX, uh, riding and maybe, uh, do some racing. And, and, uh, I have this clear image a kid, you liked bikes and wanted to do BMX riding and maybe do some racing.

Starting point is 02:45:45 And, and I have this clear image of you, you know, doing X, Y, and Z. And, you know, if that's information that only, you know, you've never told me or anybody else about that, right? Then you got to say, Oh, that's interesting. How would you know that? And what did you see? Is there any accuracy there? Right.

Starting point is 02:46:03 So, you know, I think, I guess the bottom line for me is that i always try to keep an open mind everything and there's a whole lot of mystery behind the human being right and if you look at us whether genetically or anything else um we are very unique and i i don't i personally believe you know when we get into the discussion of what people consider paranormal, I think everything in science is technically paranormal until it becomes normal, meaning my cell phone here, all the things that we have we take for granted, right? The technology we use today, at some point in time, we're considered very paranormal. And I think it's really our lack of understanding and our bias to try to try to think to things that we don't understand we kind of pigeonhole them as being weird or odd um when really it's just it's it's our naivety really you know because it's not and this goes into the bigger psychological issue of

Starting point is 02:46:58 human beings we we like everything in a nice neat little box we like to know where we are and that's why when people look at the pale blue dot picture, they get freaked out. You know, that's why if you look at a way of cities, you know, the new cities are all North, South, East, West grid lines. And I live in the Southwest part of town on street 32, right? We drive down the highway, speed limit 65, you know, no passing lane. We like rules. We like, we like boundaries to know where we are. And society does that innately. We build these barriers on purpose so we can feel comfortable and we know kind of where we are in the world, right? When you remove that, human beings get very insecure. And if there's something happening that we don't understand, whether it's a comet in the sky and we want to say it's the lord of

Starting point is 02:47:44 the underworld that's coming in to show us who they are or an earthquake, right? The gods must be angry. No, it's actually just based in science. What's paranormal is our lack of understanding of the science. And I think that's the same true with human psychology. I think it's true with topics like remote viewing. Our understanding hasn't caught up with yet the reality of what something is. And so it creates this internal angst as a species and as individuals.

Starting point is 02:48:10 I'm open to that for sure. Lou, real quick, I got to run to the bathroom, but I think- I do too. So I'll wait till you're done. Yeah. We're going to do a Patreon episode right after this. I think we'll cut that there, but your book, Imminent, as always, we'll have the link down below. People can go get it there. It's a very good book. And I appreciate you doing round two with me. Absolutely.

Starting point is 02:48:30 My honor and privilege, man. And listen, you guys are doing a great job. And even a bigger thanks to your audience. Yes, and even the ones that hate me. That's fine. Because we're having a conversation here that's collectively about all of us and involves all of us. And so I think you're doing a great service, you and your production team. conversation here that's collectively about all of us and involves all of us and so i i think you're doing a great service you and your production team uh yeah well i was gonna say

Starting point is 02:48:52 you have the shoes i know you guys are killing doing a great job underdog underdog operation yeah yeah but thank thank you i'd say a big dog operation i i appreciate you lou i appreciate you coming through and getting this done again. I know you got snowed in last time. Yeah. I'm sorry about that. No, it's all good.

Starting point is 02:49:09 You know, I promised you I'd come back out. You came right out. I really appreciate that, but we'll have the Patreon episode as well. So people can get that link down below. Everybody else, you know what it is.

Starting point is 02:49:17 Give it a thought, get back to me. Peace. And the only reason why I can even tell you this right now is because I have approval from the Pentagon to say exactly what I'm saying right now. Right. But I was also reminded, I signed documentation that i am not allowed to discuss anything specific specific right like it's in writing and it's now stored in a skiff in a safe

Starting point is 02:49:34 so it's a legal contract i don't want to violate that i just want to make sure like you know they weren't pulling the wool over you without providing you any type of way for you to have a safe signal. There is documentation. You want to see something, take a look at – Thank you guys for watching the episode. Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory podcast, or also on my personal page

Starting point is 02:50:05 at Julian D. Dory. Both links are in the description below. Finally, if you'd like to catch up on our latest episodes, use the Julian Dory podcast playlist link in the description below. Thank you.

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