Julian Dorey Podcast - #277 - The Lost Rockefeller Heir, Sickening Elite Rituals & USAID | Mark Gagnon

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

SPONSORS: 1) Get 15% off with code JULIAN at oneskin.co 2) Rocket Money: Go to www.rocketmoney.com/julian to start saving today! (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Mark Gagnon is the co-host of OfficialFlagrant & Host of CampGagnon . FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey GUEST LINKS - Camp Gagnon YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_8fyOXzrZjcnUBFbhbms7Q - Flagrant YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OfficialFlagrant/videos ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 - Julian Going on Mark’s Show, Fatherhood, Getting Married Since High School 12:29 - Doing Dip 1st Time, Moscow Trip (Whippets Story) 21:20 - Having Kid at Home, Midwives & Hasidic Jews 34:14 - Jalen Hurts & His Rise to Champion 37:21 - USAID Issue, Guatemala Syphilis Experiment 56:13 - Judging History (Errors/Mistakes) 01:05:24 - Rockefeller Story (Amazon) 01:14:21 - Crossing Borders Story, Cartel Crossing 01:22:17 - Bob Hamer FBI P3dophile Hunter & Chinese Gangster Tracker, Epstein Case 01:36:11 - P@rnHub Ban 01:42:45 - Mark’s Obsession with Religion 01:58:11 - Mormons 02:07:36 - What Trump Was Like (Flagrant Podcast), Michael Jackson Pepsi Commerical 02:17:01- The Fall of Kanye, RFK Jr. Behind Camera & Politics Today 02:34:05 - Bringing Political Candidates on the Show, 50 Cent CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian Dorey - Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 277 - Mark Gagnon Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Basically, his kids were living in Trump Tower, I think in like the late part of the 90s, early 2000s. And I'm pretty sure Michael Jackson at that point was also living there, and that Donald and Michael Jackson had become close friends. And we were kind of asking him about it. And he was like, yeah, you know, he's a really nice guy. He's, you know, a little troubled.

He was like trying to figure some stuff out. And so, like, we helped him out. We gave him, you know, an apartment. And we just wanted to be good to him. He was just a sweet guy. And I think Pepsi commercial thing, like, really affected his self-esteem. And, the pepsi commercial thing this is what's so funny marky mark we're finally doing it what's up baby it's good to have you here dude yeah great

great to be here. Thanks for having me, man. Of course, man. I had a lot of fun on your show back in September. That was a good time. I got to do that some more. It was great, too. We figured out the CIA, I think.

The whole thing. Yeah, yeah. Top to bottom. Like, from the inception all the way now. Like, we have all the answers. Yeah, and Tommy G was in it, too. Tommy G made an appearance in the intro. Which I never explained what happened.

And it's not what you think okay it's basically that i'm an idiot like my buddy cristo's that does them uh i actually don't even know if it's cristo's i think it was my friend shifty that did it and he sent me the intro and he was like yo dude the pod you do with julian is fire like here's the intro i was like oh you're a legend and i look at the intro and i just kind of skim it over it's like it's got all the beats i'm looking at the subtitles i'm like everything's spelt right like shifty shifty doesn't always spell things right i was like oh you're a legend and i look at the intro and i just kind of skim it over it's like it's got all the beats i'm looking at the subtitles i'm like everything's spelt right like shifty shifty doesn't always spell things right i was like dude he's got all the letters and this is amazing and then it goes up and i see like three comments are like what why is tommy g in and i was like i don't think we even talked about tom how did this even come up and then i look in

the intro five seconds in it's tommy G giggling it up in my chair right here. And I was like, what is happening? And I think I forget who it was that did it. And they hit me up. They're like, I'm so sorry. I can't believe this happened. And I was like, no, no, no. This is perfect.

You don't understand how good this is. Because what it was, you're going through the intro and you're like, and that's why I could think of no one better than my good friend, Julian Dory. And it pops up just Tommy g's picture in my studio to come through and talk about my closest friend one of my deepest alliances in the world and then here's a different guy but like i was also looking through it because i'm like where did they even get that picture and i went through my youtube community post because back then i used to post every episode i would put screenshots like five of them every other one for the episode would be guess me guess me guess me just make it different

phases and i scrolled through and you go through all these posts where my picture is in there and then you get down 40 posts to his yeah and they pick that one i'm like man it took effort to get here as well dude i wish they just put the sniper guy. Who's the sniper that everyone's been watching? Oh, the Reaper? I wish they put the Reaper. Like, dude, one of my best friends, Julian's Black. Oh, that would have made it so much better. That was good, though.

That was a fire conversation, though, just because I like with all the very serious shit, like, you have to still have fun with it. Of course. You know what I mean? And that's what you're doing. Like if people haven't seen Camp Gagnon, it's a great show. Thank you, bro. You have fun with a lot of this shit because you're a very smart guy, but you're also a comedian.

And it's like, you know, we're here to be entertained sometimes too. Not everything has to be like fucking life and death like it seems to be, right? Yeah, but sometimes you throw a joke in at the wrong time and you're like, well, I didn't plan this properly. Like some guy is like telling me a story and it's like super serious. And he's like, yeah, you know, the reason I got into philosophy. And I was like, because you're gay? And he's like, no, it's because my dad died. And I was like, oh, all right, my bad.

Yeah, I probably should have waited for you to explain that part. No, it's really good, though, man. I like the jokes, too. You got to explain that part. No, it's really good, though, man. I like the jokes, too. You got to keep it light. But you also, this year, became a father. Yeah, dude. As well. How's that going?

Oh, it's awesome. It's awesome, bro. It's life-changing and genuinely, yeah, it's warped my perception of reality. How so? Like, you just, I don't know, you go through your life and you think in, like, sort of, like, minimalish scopes. You're like, okay, I'm thinking about career, and I'm thinking maybe two, three years ahead. Then all of a sudden you have a kid, and you're like,

oh, I got to think about the next 50 years. Like, my health decisions I make today are going to impact, like, how long I have to spend with my child. Like, the person that I am will reflect, and, like, my child will ask me questions. It really revealed to me also the double standard that I hold with myself and that people hold with children. Like it's so funny. What do you mean double standard?

Like once you start to parent a child, you have to then consider how you're parenting yourself. You know what I mean? Like I operate as just like a regular, you know, scumbag. Just my day-to-day life, you know, like like doing stand-up and i have a drink here there eat trash food wake up late like you know i mean like you just kind of just do stuff and when you have a kid you hold them to a standard right like my kid's not gonna look at screens but then i can look at all the screens i want you know i mean like my kid i can't have sugar

my kid is not gonna have processed sugar but i'm okay i'm okay you know i mean like and my kid can't come home late my kid can't lie my kid can't that but then when sugar. But I'm going to eat cake. But I'm going to eat cake. You know what I mean? Like, my kid can't come home late. My kid can't lie. My kid can't da-da-da. But then when I do it, I'm like, oh, you know, but I'm a good guy. So it's like, I think human beings do this. It's like, you hold yourself to a different standard than you hold kids to. And then when your kid violates that standard, you get pissed at them.

Yeah. And you're like, why did you tell me a white lie? And it's like, meanwhile, I'm lying. Like, I'm doing shit that I should not be doing. And I don't know, it gives me more empathy for people and, you know, holds myself to a higher standard of like, I have to live the things that I'm going to tell my kid to do.

Yeah, it's hard because as your child, like, obviously you're a new father, but as your child gets older too, like, you get into your habits. You get into your daily life. And like you said, you're still thinking about them because this came from you. You want to craft a perfect specimen in this way you want all the best for your kid all the bad things happen to you you don't want to happen to them but you

know you get in this mindset like well i did that but he's not gonna do that and in reality like it comes from a good place but you know kids are gonna learn from example more than anything if they find out like dad was fucking ripping blow when he was 17 and was the cool guy in school like they're gonna want to do that yeah when dad tells him no you can't do that it's like well fuck you why'd you do it yeah and again i don't know right i'm not like a full-blown parent parent like i'm four months into the game so like i'm sure like that's a full-blown parent sure but like i parent a newborn infant you know what i mean like i don't know anything about, like, parenting, like, a young child or a teenager. But, like, I can imagine the approach that I'm taking, at least now, is, like, when these questions come up, like, hey, dad, like, you know, people talk about smoking weed at school.

Like, what do you think of that? And, like, I'm not a big weed smoker, but, you know, I've smoked weed before. And I would kind of be honest. I'd be like, look, I've done this. I think that there's probably, like, you know, health detriments if you do it chronically or for long periods of time. You know, a one-off can be fun, but like you have to do it in the right dosage with the right people. And then hope that they make right decisions based off the information that I give them and not just be like, oh, no, I never did that. Don't do it.

Yeah. lie with your children uh and with all people ultimately is really detrimental to not only the relationship to like their betterment because now they're sort of having a mispatch between you as the person and then you as the idea 100 you know it's a great way to put it so i don't know it's just like keeping me it's keeping me accountable i'm also so grateful for my wife i mean what an amazing human being like we were talking about this a little bit earlier but like the the like i don't i like i appreciated her when we were married you know what i mean i appreciate we were dating and then once you have a kid you're like what would i do without this human being like the way that she like just pours into this child and like nurtures and like uh it's it's beautiful this is like the really only way i can put it like

she's just awesome that's awesome man and like you also got married young too like i always thought that was like a fit like i'd hear you say you hear guys say like you know the wife and they're referring to the girlfriend so i always thought that was like a figure of speech and then when you and i became friends and we were we were at dinner one time like talking about different things in the career and you're like yeah the wife and then you actually mentioned you were married i'm like you're married yeah what the fuck yeah like bro i've been married for five years. Yeah, it blows people's mind, bro. Like, I got married when I was 23.

And every now and again, a military guy will come up to me like, yeah, bro, I got married young, too. And I'm like, okay, hold on. I just don't even start. How'd that work out for you, pal? Yeah, first off, I got married for love, okay? You got married for housing, okay? This is different. We're not the same, okay?

You wanted a bottom bunk or whatever all right i love this woman i put it on the line uh and not to mention yeah you did two tours and all of a sudden you guys are split up okay i don't know uh shout out to the troops though okay but uh yeah like i you get married at 23 and it's so funny because you tell people not only do i get married at 23 i've been with my wife since high school. Oh, that's amazing. So, well, I was in high school. She was 14. But, no, I'm joking. Continue. Bad boys for life.

Well, see, some of those I don't see coming. Wow. No, I'm joking. I was like, cut. We're going to do a quick bathroom break. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. No, we were both in high school. And you got to stop trapping me with these questions.

You're putting me in a bad spot. No, but we're both in high school. And I tell people that. I'm like, dude, I married my high school sweetheart. And then people will be like, bro, you did it the right way. And I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, bro like you just got it you gotta figure it out meanwhile they got like two girls with them they're like waking up at three

you know just like two in the afternoon like having threesomes all the time be like no no but you like you you figured it out dude i'm like it doesn't seem like it seems like you're having a way more chill time to be honest you know what though they're right they and and they know stop it dude i hear this all the time. No, no, I'm dead serious. Because, like, if you, it's the, you had said this off camera. I've heard this a million times from people. It's so true.

Like, when you look at really successful people, a lot of them will say the most important decision you ever make is the woman you marry. Yeah. Because it can make or break, not necessarily just your career, though that can happen, too. But, like, your life and the trajectory of how it goes and your mental headspace too when i see guys who are objectively monetarily very successful but they're miserable at home they are miserable in person unless they're doing something crazy yeah and how often are you gonna be able to do something crazy and you still gotta wake up every day and like get after what the fuck you're getting after maybe you can do that that at a high level to like pull money in, but you're not getting any fulfillment from that. It's such a shame like just to have the money, but like your wife and you don't have a good system and your kids and you are distant because of that.

And like, I don't know. I always think about that quote, like some people are so poor, all they have is money. That's a great quote. You like i don't know i think about that like i really i'm really like i'm proud of my family my wife and like it's a it's a it's an awesome thing uh and getting married young is great like i genuinely i i condone it and i support if you found like a really supportive person and like you're in a position in your life where you feel like you know yeah i did all the stuff I wanted to do. Like the single gene of like, you know, going to Thailand and, you know,

doing Muay Thai and being a free spirit and linking with some lady boys. Like if that is out of your system, assuming that's out of your system, like, yeah, get married. One of the greatest benefits of getting married young is that you guys grow together. Where like, I wasn't a fully formed person, right?

That's what I'm saying. You're so young, you can't know everything. Yeah, I'm also, I'm still not a fully formed. I don't, I'm like, I feel like a fully formed person, right? That's what I'm saying. You're so young, you can't know everything. Yeah. I'm still not fully formed. I feel like a fetus. But my wife and I, we grow together. And we've really like vines on a branch. We've grown up together quite literally.

And I couldn't imagine life without her. And she's made me sort of the person I am. We're so linked up. So many little petty arguments that might happen life without her and she's made me sort of the person i am like we're so linked up like so many little petty arguments that might happen if you know you and your girl maybe get together when you're way older and you've already established a system of living those things are sort of ameliorated by just being together young ameliorated that's a big word ameliorated yeah that was my that's my sister's middle name that's good that's That's a name, right? Yeah. Amelia Bedelia.

Her real name is Amelia Bedelia. I'm pretty sure. Because you're also, for people that don't know you, obviously, you came up working with Andrew Schultz, who's one of the most world-class comedians in the world, and even an actor now. So many of you are such a talented guy. He's the GOAT. But the way I understand it, you get married, and then you make the jump and move up here

to New York and you do basically like you're working with him but also building Mark Gagnon like the entrepreneurial side where I'm a comedian too I'm gonna do my own show eventually as well I'm gonna do things to set myself up for the future of my career and you're doing that like 20s grind where you're already married where you found the girl And this is why it's so important who obviously it's been proven through the time of test now or through the test time now, who is willing to stand by you while you do that and not only support it, but like enjoy it with you. It seems that way. And that's, that is really special. Cause that's something like when I came in and made the decision to do this, I didn't have that. And I'm like, fuck now I got to go do this. And eventually, you know when i

can have some time i'll find someone and be able to settle down but i don't have that support while i'm doing it which certainly look you can't have everything in life but that would have been nice let's talk about peptides for a minute if you're like me you're seeing them everywhere but just because something says peptide on the label doesn't mean it's actually doing anything for you that's where one skin's OS01 peptide is different. While some peptides just sit on top of the skin, OS01 goes deeper. It's scientifically formulated to penetrate the cells within skin's deeper layers, improving key skin health markers like collagen production, hydration, and skin barrier function.

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those lines on my skin because let's face it, I got to be on camera. You got to look as good as possible. It's a really good product and I tell my friends all about it. Founded and led by a team of skin longevity scientists, OneSkin is redefining the aging process with their proprietary OS01 peptide, the first ingredient to help skin feel, look, and behave like its younger self. Get 15% off with code JULIAN at OneSkin.co. That link is in the description below. Once again, that's 15% off using code JULIAN at OneSkin.co. After your purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them JULIAN sent you. Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with OneSkin.

Your future self will thank you. No, it's hard to do both. And the timeline's a little flipped on that point specifically. I moved up in like 2019 and then my wife and I got married in 2020. So I moved up and she was like, yo, I'll like move to new york she had like her dream job in florida she had like something you know that she really loved and she was like look i'll follow you she's like let's let's build a family like let's make this work but like yeah let's make it real and i was like yeah 100 i was hoping like i was hoping you were feeling the same way and so yeah we got married in 2020 the height

of covid super spreader event. And I think we might have started it, I'll be honest. The Gagnon family wedding, because I think that was patient zero. Well, you are from Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got married in Wuhan, though, which is nice.

It's nice in the summer. People won't tell you that in the media. I'm telling you, the far right media, they won't tell you how nice Wuhan is. Ever since all those people died, it's like really opened up. No, we got married in Florida and it was a dip, all right?

It was a dip, okay? Don't fact check me on this, okay? No one got sick. It was fine. My grandma went. She's still alive. She still lives? She did die from that event,

but it was unrelated. That was unrelated, okay? It was unrelated, all right? Paul ran out from grandma. You got to pop in a little zen. Are you trying to rip him out? I've never had a zen. Dude. I'm never gonna. You don't want to pop in a little zen? Are you trying to rip him out? I've never had a zen. Dude.

I'm never going to. You don't want to throw up with the boys? It looks amazing. This is one of the best ways if you just want to hang with your boys and then throw up. Yeah, I don't want to do that. Yeah, we're all having a good time, and then you pop it in, and your lip burns, and then you just go to the bathroom for five minutes. You're like, no, let's party.

That's what it's all about. That's all about it goes that's how it goes dude the first time i ever did dip i was uh hanging with all these baseball guys in high school and it sounds about right yeah okay it wasn't that it wasn't how you're saying it all right i was dating one of the guys and uh no we're i was just friends with the high school i was friends with baseball kids baseball kids are cool for the record because the sport is 90 chilling that's the whole sport is just hey we're gonna sit in the dugout and we're just gonna make fun of each other all the time and then occasionally i'm gonna go and play baseball and then we're gonna go hang and that's what baseball is and so i was friends with all baseball kids they were funny and then

i'm like a freshman hanging with like the seniors on the baseball team which i don't even know these dudes and they're all sitting in the back of like's pickup. And they were like, yo, you want a lip? And I was like, yeah. Yeah? I didn't even know what it was. I was like, am I getting kissed right now? Stack a little big one. Yeah, it was Cope Wintergreen, long cut.

And I try to be cool. I try to be a cool guy. Dude, it's so embarrassing. I was like, dude, I'm going to be sick. I'm hanging with the baseball guys. This is fire. And I toss it in. And then immediately, the world's spinning. I was like, dude, I'm going to be sick. I'm hanging with the baseball guys. It's fire. And I toss it in. And then immediately the world's spinning.

I was like, oh, fuck. And then I literally went behind the truck. And I was like, they won't be able to hear me. And then just yak everywhere. And then I pop back up. And I was just like, what's up? And they were like, dude, were you just throwing up? I was like, no, no.

Not me. Me? I would never. Throw it up? But no, it was bad. So now I just stick to the little. Now you're a little Zins guy. Yeah.

They're not nearly as strong, right? Compared to that was bad. So now I just stick to the little, now you're a little Zins guy. Yeah. I appreciate it. They're not nearly as strong, right? I mean, compared to that, nothing is as strong as that. Okay. But no,

I mean, I'm pretty sure these are for women in Sweden. Like that's what I've read. Like, like every now and again, for women in Sweden, I'll pop up, I'll toss one in on the pod.

Every now and again, a Swedish guy would be like, you know, this is for the women in Sweden. This is what the, like, this is like, we, we do snoss. Like we,. This is what the, like, this is like, we do snoss. Snoss?

Yeah. Is that like whippets? I think it's like whippets. I think, bro, I did whippets one time in my life. No. And I didn't, again, I'm not a drug guy, but I am a try most things one time guy. Okay. I truly, like I'll rip, I'll do one, I'll do a thing one time.

So we're, this is, it sounds like a fake story, but just trust me, it's totally made up. We were in Moscow. Oh. Doing a show in 2019 at just at like a little comedy club in Moscow. And me and all the guys, we go to this club afterwards and we're hanging with like our guys. And then just all these Russian comedians. Some of them were really, really popular in Russia. Some of them saw this guy Sasha was popping.

You know what the fuck they were saying? No. No, no, no, no, no. Even when they were speaking English, I was like, nope, not picking this up. And we were hanging. And they had this balloon they were passing around the nightclub. And I was like, what is this? And they were like, oh, it's like laughing gas.

I was like, I'm not a dentist. I don't know, it's like laughing gas. I was like, I've been to the dentist. I know laughing gas. Come on, huh? I can give this a rip. So I hit it. And at this point, I don't even know if I smoked weed or something. I just like, I hit it one time. And then like I'm hearing the music.

It's like, boo-tah, boo-tah, boo-tah, boo-tah. And then immediately, I fall into a hole. A hole? Yes. It's literally like, get out. Like I fall into the sunken place. And all of a sudden the music is like. And I'm just like deep in this hole.

And I see like the light at the very end. And I'm just like, holy shit. And then just as fast as I go into this pit, all of a sudden it's just like. And I'm back at the party. What's up? What's up? What's up? How long do you think it was?

Like 20 seconds. But it felt like a minute. Oh. And so it like took you right to the party. What's up? What's up? What's up? How long do you think it was? Like 20 seconds, but it felt like a minute. Oh, so it like took you right to the edge. Yeah. And then Sasha was like, did you enjoy it? I was like, no, I did not. I really didn't. Please don't do that again.

Do you have like a woman's lip packet of nicotine? I would love that. That would be nice for me. But yeah. And now you're just doing zits. That's cool. Yeah, I'm a dad. I'm a dad, man.

Yeah, you got to be a dad. You got to. Yeah, when are you going to have a kid? Come on, Julian. At some a dad. I'm a dad, man. You gotta be a dad. When are you gonna have a kid? Come on, Julian. At some point here. I think I'll be a bomb-ass dad. You would adopt? No. I will procreate with the right woman.

If you had to adopt, what race would you pick? I'm not answering that. I'll play Eeny, Meeny, Miny, moe Where it lands Will be cool Okay, that's fair I plan on procreating I would spin a globe And just put a dart in it

And be like Alright, Mozambique it is That's like a fucking Key and Peele story That's what Bradgelina did That's how they got The whole Rainbow family It was fire

The Rainbow family? Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bradgelina got like Adopted a bunch of kids And they're all like they're all different flavors or races what do i call it races yeah i guess races what you would say races uh yeah tomato tomato oh that's awesome how you got the full-blown comedian pass you just say whatever you want yeah i mean i i pushed the bar way past where it should be but like when you have have that, hey, by the way, I'm a stand-up comedian. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's something that goes with that where you can completely get away with everything. Yeah, I got to lead with that sometimes. Because I will have people in my pod that like I'll reach out to and I'll be like, hey, I'm a podcaster in New York. And they'll come on and then I'll drop a joke on them. They're like, this is not what I was expecting. Yeah, and I'll be like, literally, I'll be like, so the aliens, like they're hot. Like you can smash them or what? And they're like, no, no, no, you can't do that. And I was like, so the aliens, they're hot? You can smash them or what? And they're like, no, no, no, you can't do that.

And I was like, I'm just joking. They're like, why would you joke? Because I'm a fucking comedian. I don't know. We're just fucking around. Come to my stand-up tomorrow. I thought we were just having a little vibe. That's what I should do.

I should go do it once and be like, yep, I am a stand-up comedian now. Exactly. Now we pass. I can say these racial slurs. It's fine. That's right. All of it is kosher. Exactly. As long as the intentions. Don't say kosher. I can say kos racial slurs. It's fine. Right. All of it is kosher. Exactly.

As long as the intentions. Don't say kosher. I can say kosher whenever I want. You're not Jewish. I say that. You've been calling me mensch all day. I don't want to hear it. I'm a comedian.

You do have the Jew curls, though, in the back. I live in Williamsburg, bro. That's what I do. That's how I got the deal in my apartment, bro. I had to let the curls out. They're like, oh, okay. He's a hetzy, hetzy. He just slept here from Floridaida look at my apartment you do walk around williamsburg though and you see like

hipster hipster hipster orthodox jewish and they're like well i know they're they're paying them yeah that's how that's how this order goes yes dude oh it's amazing my wife is actually a midwife for orthodox jews that's her job is that a job like you get that on fucking monster.com midwife orthodox she went to devry for the record university of phoenix devry same shit exactly yeah no it's a real job she's a midwife and she got like a master's uh like basically like a nurse practitioner in nursing and then i was like i want to deliver babies and so she chose orthodox jews only she just like got in like everyone else she got in with the community

yeah like she just like connected uh we both grew up like pretty religious and uh i think like low key on like some religion vibes she was like yeah like i got married young like you guys get married when you're 12 you know it's like whatever so they have the kid like in the house well here's where it gets wilder we had the kid in the house i Well, here's where it gets wilder. We had the kid in the house, too. I know you did. I saw it. It was like a log flume. Exactly, bro.

That shit was crazy. That was wild. If you have a baby, you got to have him in the studio, I think. You know? No. It's beautiful. You bring life in. I don't know if that's for me.

I feel like I'd feel a lot better at the hospital. A lot of medical professionals. A lot of... Where all the sick people go. Genius. Genius over here. Right, Alessi? Believe this guy?

It's like you grew up in Santa Cruz or something. Fucking goofball over here. What would happen? What is that scenario? Because you did have your kid in the house. Do you have someone on call, like a medical professional, and something's going to go wrong? Do they come in? You have contingencies. like typically you can only have a home birth if

you're a low-risk pregnancy what does that mean so like if you don't have like uh co-founders like any other type of like illness that preclude you from having like a statistically high likelihood of a successful birth if you have preeclampsia um high blood pressure hypertension if you are what they call this is not i didn't say this this is what they call it a geriatric pregnancy which is when you have a child over 35 uh the women not the guys we're gonna have babies oh oh right right right it's crazy i was thinking the child was over 35 it's like a will ferrell snl skit whoa it's hot in there yeah no if a woman has a baby after 35,

then they call it a geriatric pregnancy, which I think they should change. I think they just call that MILF Plus or something. I don't know. Geriatric seems rude to me. I wouldn't say that, but that's what they call it in the medical establishment. So assuming you don't have any of those co-founders.

I'm 35 is old, that kid. I mean, yeah. It is. Nowadays. It is. Nowadays, you could be 40. You could be a dude. Like, anything's possible.

Like, you can, you know what I mean? Like, science has taken us a long way. So, all that to say, if you don't have any of those co-founders, you can have the home birth. And then there's a contingency. Like, obviously, they're monitoring, like, heart rate and, like, tonality and, like, obviously, dilation and all the things that go on with birth. How many people do you have in there with you? Two. And it's in, like like an inflatable pool?

Oh, no, no. So sometimes people do that. They do the water birth. That's like an extra level of whiteness. And they got to like swim through that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like if you're a true blue blood white. You know what I mean?

That's like you got to be high priority. You got to be like Rothschild or something. You got to be like, you got to be real family. That's not white. You got to be a candidate, I think. You got to be like Rothschild or something. You got to be real family. That's not white. You got to be a candidate, I think. You got to be full-blown. But yeah, a lot of people do water birds. But yeah, we just did.

You just pop it on the floor? Yeah, I mean, you put pee pads down. What's a pee pad? You ever have a little dog that goes pee inside? Oh, you put a dog litter box or a cat litter box down? Basically, you put a litter box. You put a little bit of sand. What happens to all the blood? You just hope you get your deposit back and uh yeah you basically

just gotta because you're a runner it's yeah yeah it's just uh just a hope and a prayer man that's really how it goes uh how long did it take like start the she starts dilating oh shit my water broke like first of all where are you take me there god bless this woman bro we uh so the water doesn't break that's like a movie thing sometimes the water breaks prior to but typically the water will break like when the woman starts to push like in the last like hour or two um fucking hollywood right that's what i'm saying here's another fascinating thing so in hollywood when a woman is is in labor what are they doing they're screaming right like this is very typical we see this obviously it's extremely painful for women. You've got to see the whole process.

It's very intense. Hasidic women, I've been told, don't yell as much. They don't scream. It's in their genetics. I think they're tougher genetically. They've got a chromosome. They've got better kegel push. They've got pain tolerance. It's going wild.

I think there might be a couple of things. I've tried to put my theory together. Obviously, there's not a ton of discourse on the internet about Hasidic births. Even on Reddit? Yeah, even on Reddit. Imagine that the Hasidic Jews are not very commonly on Reddit. Yeah, I think they might have like a town square you could talk about. Well, I figured that's where they were building the tunnels.

They were talking about it on Reddit. So which shovel works the best? No, no, that's FM radio. That's how they do it. They just got a landline or something. But no, they don't yell as much. I think it's likely because they don't have access to Western media, so they don't know, like, oh, we should be screaming. Obviously, it's painful.

People are going to be screaming regardless. But there's also an acceptance that birth is painful, and that is the duty that I've taken on as a woman. I'm accepting this pain. My wife actually asked one of her clients one time, she's like, how is your pain level right now? She was like, I'm in pain, but it's the good pain. While she's? Like eight centimeters.

My wife was like, all right, just. Tough bitch. Yeah, call me up when you need me. I'm going to go home. Smoke a hookah, I'll be back. But yeah, so we're just at home. And then basically you just wait for the contractions to get closer together and more intense. How long did that take, do you think?

Like five hours where it was like, all right, time to call the midwife. I mean, first you call the doula. The doula. A doula is basically it's basically a witch it's basically a doula in like a hospital setting also I hope this is interesting to the good people oh it's very interesting

I'm riveted right now basically a doula you can almost consider as like an attorney for a midwife or an attorney for like a mom so like a woman goes to the hospital she has the baby the doctor that's there might not be the doctor that she's seen through like her uh like her ob or her uh like you know preclinical like prenatal care so it'll just be a random doctor and he might have a different way of doing things that might not be within the birth plan that the parents set out and he'll be like hey we're gonna do this we're gonna put you on this medicine we're

gonna put you on this drug you want an epidural we're gonna to do this. We're going to put you on this medicine. We're going to put you on this drug. You want an epidural? We're going to do it now. And the parents are like, all right, we don't know anything. And so basically a doula will like advocate on behalf of the mother at times. And then also we'll be able to do like assist with the birth. So like hip squeezing, changing positions to like help the birth process move on. Can the midwife give drugs and stuff? Yeah. Oh, they can? They can administer drugs.

I didn't know this. Typically midwives operate within either a home birth setting, they operate within a birth center, or they operate in a hospital. They can operate in all three. And then depending on the legality of each state, uh, restricts what they can and can't do. But yeah, you can be in a birth center, which is basically like a mid step between a hospital and a home. So it's like, just imagine a podcast studio, right? It's like, but you have babies. Yeah, exactly. You have all the stuff that you need. You have like a pool. You got everything.

But it's not your house. And then obviously a hospital is a hospital. And so, yeah, midwives can administer certain types of medications. Specifically, if you have like an NP, you're able to administer basically all antibiotics and pharmaceuticals, excluding like opiates and stuff. Suck for me. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Trying to get my hands on a hydro or something. That's right. You couldn't like steal something while they were like fucking pushing? Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, mean? Yeah. Trying to get my hands on a hydro or something. That's right. You couldn't, like, steal something while they were, like, fucking pushing? Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, it's a good thing. So it takes, like, five hours while the contractions are happening to, like, get to the actual big shebang. Yeah.

And then how long is that process? Typically, it's faster. You know, like, it depends. Like, first time babies take a little bit. Like, my sister just had a home birth, and hers was, like, seven hours front to back. My wife did 29 it was like 29 hours five to six hours of like what they call pre-labor and that's like where the contractions are kind of picking up just me and her at home like watching squid game um and then it was time for the real squid game where it's like all right let's go and then uh

and then yeah basically it's like another 24 hours of like waiting for the baby to basically move the way down the birth canal to shift around. Our son had what they call a nuchal arm, which is like the arm will be up towards the head. And it makes it more difficult for the contractions to actually kind of like move the head through the birth canal. You're worried about like breaking the shoulder socket? I mean, you're not so much worried about the baby in this case. You're more worried about the box it comes in. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Right. That's what they had about me. That's why I was born with dislocated hips. They broke that shit on the way out. No way. Yeah. How does that happen? I guess they were more concerned about the fucking box than me.

Thanks, guys. That's crazy. That was in a hospital, too. I should sue. See, there you go. If this happened at home, you probably would have just died. You know what I mean? Wouldn't that have been better? I've always noticed that about your hips. I should sue. See, there you go. If this happened at home, you probably would have just died. You know what I mean? Like that's, wouldn't that have been better?

I've always noticed that about your hips. You got nice hips, dude. Thank you. You got like a nice, yeah, you got like a nice fucking ass. Or like, I feel like that sounds weird. I don't know. Like you got, yeah, you got what I'm saying. Pause.

All right. So you have the kid, though, at home. Everything goes well. Yeah, it's awesome. And then, like, it doesn't go, you're saying it goes on the fucking cat litter box? Like, what's the cleanup like afterwards? Well, then, so the midwives are awesome. The midwife and the doula, they come together.

They're, like, the best. Our team was, like, just so, so awesome. They're just hardcore. You're making them sound like magic people, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They sound like, you know. They're mystical, bro. It's like a Harry Potter class. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They sound like... They're mystical, bro. It's like a Harry Potter class.

Yeah. That's what I'm picturing. They clean everything up. Obviously, the baby immediately goes skin to skin, which is great. This is the other fascinating thing. I've gotten so into the anthropological early childhood stuff, which I find fascinating. So fascinating. All right.

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julian go on and get it yeah like basically like the baby goes through the birth canal um they're like getting bacteria basically coming through like the vagina and the vulva and then the mom will like kiss the baby instinctually it's like don't smile are you smiling why is he Look at this guy. He's smirking. No, no, no.

He was smirking. I was not smiling at all. I said, I said, vagina. He was like, what? Run the tape.

I had the straightest face of all time. That's, I'm, see, I'm in your head now. Sometimes I do this to people. I'm sorry. I'm literally looking at you with the straightest face.

All right. See, we're saying it comes out of vagina, touches the skin. Everyone's happy. What happens? Don't talk about my wife's vagina. Whatever.est face. See, we're saying it comes out of the vagina, touches the skin, everyone's happy. What happens? Don't talk about my wife's vagina. Whatever. Jesus Christ. Sorry, this is gag time.

That's my mom. Now he's bringing my mom into it. This guy's crazy, bro. Hey, we go way back. What's wrong with this guy? Dude, it's wild. The mom kisses the baby instinctually. Like there's two things that happen when babies first come out across all cultures and what

they think is through, uh, across time is, uh, the moms instinctually will kiss the baby, uh, which apparently is really helpful because it inserts bacteria into the mom's mouth and then it's able to come through the breast milk. And then you basically start creating a flywheel where like, as the mom is getting things from the environment, whether it's like illness, pollen, things like that, they're able to actually transmit it through the breast milk. And so it's like the whole process is like built and like perfected over, you know, millions of years

evolution to like make healthy babies. And then the other thing moms do is they'll do like an anatomy scan. Just- Anatomy scan. Literally on their own. They're like, they'll just like take the baby and they just start looking at like the fingers

and like the toes and like look, like just like, like on like some monkey shit, like literally just like take the baby and they'll just start looking at like the fingers and like the toes and like look like just like like on like some monkey shit like literally just like it just came out out of them literally just like looking at it and like they just like assess

and then immediately just like nurture mode and it's like bro I cried so much that's awesome bro I was weeping dude it was crazy

did it like the second that your child actually came out though like you're done the process like your wife gets the baby in the hand. Is there just like this string almost like you step into out of the black and white world right into the color world? Yeah, I was I was the munchkin in Oz, dude. I just like I saw I saw in color as a whoa. And it's crazy because my wife and women that have given birth will know this.

Like they know the baby through the whole process. Like when my wife saw the baby, she was like, oh, of course it's you. That was like her feeling. She was like, oh, duh. Like it's the equivalent of like you and I know each other on the phone for nine months. And then I see you in person. I'm like, yeah, like this is the person I know. Whereas for me, it's like, I just miss you.

And I was like, all right, whoa, this is my kid. And like, I just like you. And I was like, all right, whoa, this is my kid. And I just held him and I was like, what the fuck? And yeah, it just blew my mind. Massive feeling of protectionism. Oh, just like immediate. Sometimes dads apparently have a little bit like latent effect where sometimes they'll be a little numb. They'll be like, holy shit. And then it kind of kicks in a little later.

For me, it was pretty instant. I was like, whoa. And my wife has a picture of me holding the baby baby like in bed just like crying that's cool it was crazy that's cool and you guys i you're the instagram posts you put out after you had your kid was actually very beautiful i appreciate that because you guys obviously like you guys were public about this but you had like some struggles on the way there and i i would imagine like obviously you can't take away that pain and everything with miscarriages and stuff like that.

Yeah. But when then it actually does finally get to happen, I guess when it's supposed to happen, you know, that's gotta be an incredible mix of relief, happiness, joy, victory.

You know what I mean? Oh, it's everything. It's like, it's the only thing I compare it to is like seeing the Eagles win the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? You took the words out of my mouth.

It's like we've gotten so close so many times. I know. I know. And then finally Jalen Hurts just comes in. Well, we did win one in 2017, but that's near and dear. Okay. I'm seeing. It's always old shit with these guys.

Either way. These Philly fans are just unhinged. Yes. Were there tears that flowed down our faces when they won for the first time? That's right. See, you get me. Yeah. You get me.

It's not that much different. I'm ready to be a dad. You are. Your dad is. Come on. I'm up there. Exactly, dude. I'm there.

I'll go adopt the kid outside. Yeah, name him Jalen. You know what I mean? That'd be perfect. How handsome is that dude? It's like it bothers me how handsome he is. Like not only is he so talented, he's also so handsome. He's like a 90s R&B throwback, Jalen.

Yes, dude. When you look at it, he's an old soul. Bro, he's like swaggys r&b throwback yes dude and you look at he's an old soul bro he's like swag he's cool and shit and then on top of all of that he's 26 yeah someone told me that like yeah like why can't all 26 i was like scared he's so mature man and and what's crazy is i followed his career from the second he got to bama because he was a young freshman like he was still 17 years old i believe when he was a freshman at bama because he was a young freshman. He was still 17 years old, I believe, when he was a freshman at Bama. And he was the starting fucking quarterback for Nick Saban on the number one team in the country.

And they obviously were this amazing team. And then his second year, they make it to the national title. He gets benched. And Tua Tagovailoa comes in, wins the game in historic fashion, and Jalen had a smile on his face and was happy for the team. And I'm sure inside he was disappointed in his performance. But the next year he stayed there, still had to be a backup, was called on when Tua got hurt to win a game in like extraordinary fashion. Graduates Bama and then he transfers because he has one more year of eligibility. Lights it up at Oklahoma, but they say he's not good enough to be in the NFL.

Gets to the NFL. He's a second-round pick. He's a backup to Carson Wentz. Comes in. They're like, ah, we don't know if this kid has it. All right, we'll make him a starter. Make him a starter. They make the playoffs.

No, not good enough. Comes back the next year. Lights it up. Is crazy. Goes to the Super Bowl. Should have won the Super Bowl, but loses. Plays an amazing game. The next year, they're like, yeah, we don't know about him again.

They have a collapse. Suddenly, he's not an MVP candidate. And he comes back, questions on him all year. Boom. Best team in the league wins the MVP in the Super Bowl. Like what is better than that? You want to talk about someone who has just looked at every single obstacle that you could possibly face and said, fuck it, with a very straight face because this dude is right here all the time. And, you know know break through at

the highest level and do what he did it's not just because he's from philadelphia just in general it's a beautiful thing no it's amazing i also love how passionate you are about this yeah we had this podcast scheduled for probably you know four or five months and then he moves it because there's a parade or something that's right he's like i'm leaving right when we're done sorry dude there's a parade going on i was like for is this, it's not even the month for Pride. And he's like, no, no, it's for the Eagles. And I was like, oh, okay. For the record, this got scheduled four or five days ago, not four or five months ago.

But yes, I was like, I'm going to a parade. And Mark's like, what fucking parade? And I'm like, the parade. It's going to look like fucking Iraq and Philly when we're done with this place. Yeah. And it did. Well, you wait for this weekend don't check the police report yeah i think i work for myself they should have the losing team go through the parade also i think that i think that would make the parades wait i would watch that like you got like the winners bus and you got like the

losers bus also they're all just like chilling on top oh my god they you would i wouldn't wish that on anyone in Philadelphia. Because it's not like with some Philadelphia fans, it's not good enough that we've won. You have to know that you've lost. Yeah, it's awful. I really wanted the Chiefs to win just so we didn't have to hear you guys fucking going on and on

and on about it. What did I tell you, Mark? I said we were going to smack them. Yeah, I don't even, this is the thing, I don't even know anything about football. I know literally nothing. I just didn't want to hear my friends from philly be like eag eagles well now you now you do it is what it is but in in more important news there's some shit going down and you're doing some content on all different types of things on your podcast i like you keeping up with all the current events too you get on that right away yes but this usa thing oh yeah or some people call it usaid yes people have been pissed about this yeah people have been i called it the other day

that on a podcast i'm like is that what we're supposed to fucking call it isn't it just fucking usaid or are people so upset about aids we can't say yeah literally this is this is the uh this is the the weird sort of thing with it is that they call it in. If you look at the logo, it's us aid, right? Blue and red. And I'm pretty sure people call the USA for a while, but, uh, now they're calling it USA ID. Cause they're like,

Whoa, this was never about aid. This was never about aid. This was about the agency for international development. Yeah. And you're like, okay, we have to respect that gender.

Yeah. And it's like, well, why is it like the logo says USA? That's what it says. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, But like, yeah, it's not meant well, hold on. Why is it? But like the logo says USA. That's what it says. And they're like, no, no, no, no. But like, yeah, it's not meant to literally be aid, but they're making the logo in such a way to imply that.

You know what I mean? Like Doge is not literally about the cryptocurrency, but it's done in such a way as to, you know, wink at the meme. Yeah, meme-ify it. You know what I mean? So it's both. But yeah, USAID is a fascinating thing, dude. I just love the boys at Langley just getting creative.

I know, man. At a certain point, there's two parts to this, right? The isolationist in me is like, you know what? Maybe we don't need to be the police of the world. Maybe we don't need to be sending all the soft power all over and funding all this stuff that seems superfluous. Let's just focus on putting the money to the American people. You know what I mean? Focus on helping the fires in L.A. and helping the podcasters in New York. Let's focus on what the money to the American people. You know what I mean? Focus on helping the fires in LA and helping the podcasters in New York.

You know, like, let's focus on what matters, right? Giving the money to the people that need it. And then there's the other part of me. You know what I mean? Like, the insidious Machiavellian side that's like, no, no, no, no. We need to run the world. We need to run the whole world. Yeah.

Or else China's going to do it. Condoms for Gaza. Yes, we need more condoms. I mean, the condoms for Gaza thing is hilarious, dude. Yeah, isn't that bullshit? Yeah, that's what I had read, okay? And for the record... Where'd you read it?

I wrote it down. And for the record, I'm not a geopolitical analyst, okay? You are today. That's in your bio. I'm a comedian with a Twitter account, okay? Go look at Mike Benz. He's got all the research figured out. But, yeah.

Yeah, there's Mike Mercedes Benz guys everywhere. He's everywhere. It's a fabulous last name, Mercedes Benz. I mean, he's got all the research figured out. Yeah, there's Mike Mercedes Benz guys everywhere. He's everywhere. It's a fabulous last name, Mercedes Benz. I mean, it's amazing. It feels a little too good to be true. Benzy. But no, he's doing great research on it, but I don't know anything. So I've just kind of read the stuff.

But apparently the Congress for Gaza thing was like a certain amount of money is allocated for like reproductive health in the region. And then a small subset of that under a subset under a subset was for uh you know contraception things like iuds and so they bought a couple packets of fucking you know cvs and senate they dropped the magnum and you guys share it you know i mean like yeah no one in gaza's pulling out that's what they said like no one's pulling out all right the citizens the government no one um but yeah apparently i've even read and maybe a fact check this, Alessi, I don't know. But like apparently some of the money was allocated for Gaza, which is a city in Mozambique. And that is. Oh, so they had a mix up with what the context was.

Either an intentional mix up in order to skew sort of the narrative or, you know, a good faith makes up a mistake. Can you explain for people out there, like you're explaining to a fifth grader, what the concept of USAID is though? It's exactly what it sounds like, but you mentioned, for example, it could be used as soft power for CIA, but what does that mean for people that aren't following? World War II ends, the Cold War basically begins, and there's all these sort of precursors to USAID. And basically it's like, OK, we can't just go in and like colonize countries anymore. We can't – like imperialism is done. All right, we're cutting up Africa. We're giving India back.

Like all this stuff. We're just – all right, we're done with it. And so America is like, OK, how can we still exert power and stop communism, either quotes or not quotes, depending on which side of the aisle you're on. And yeah, let's stop the influence of all these other foreign powers from going to these countries. And now they're doing, you know, like a hot war or some type of soft power work. And again, soft power is basically the use of like diplomacy, social coercion,

potentially propaganda to basically exert the will of your country into other countries. An example of this is like China's Belt and Road Initiative, which has been obviously discussed, you know, over the last like 15 years, which is basically like funding infrastructure projects in East African countries in order to get UN votes, to get access to mines, to get access to ports. That they can't pay back. Precisely. They're giving them loans they can't pay back.

So you basically say like, hey, we're going to build this thing. And they go, OK, great. How much does it cost? You say, it costs this much. And they say, OK, great. And then they can't pay back. And they go, you know what? We own you now.

Don't even worry about it. We'll just, you can default on a loan. But what about that mine you got? You got some cobalt or something. We got to make an iPhone or six. You know, let's just, you know, ship it over to the kids and they'll make them. We reckon to save labor. Exactly.

So that's basically what it is. And so that's kind of like the example there. And obviously America is doing a version of this with USAID is what it seems like. And so after the Cold War or as the Cold War is heating up, I'm pretty sure it was Kennedy in like 61 that creates this thing called USAID. And it's a way to basically fund countries around the world and just basically give, you know, rice, mosquito nets for malaria and things like that to help the disenfranchised. It's also as time progressed, helping like art projects and helping local communities to develop cultures and be able to become perhaps more Western as a way to look at it.

And that's kind of how it was on its face. And then people even pointed out stuff back in the day, like Guatemala syphilis experiments, apparently, that happened in Guatemala. You can pull this up if you're interested. Yeah, let's pull that up. I'm pretty sure this happened with the precursor to USAID, if I'm not mistaken. It was basically a similar similar organization that then like the oss to the cia

type shit um kgb fsb it's just like a thing and it's basically the same thing and then they do a rebrand you're like all right and uh yeah it's like the don draper mean usaid yeah basically it's like all right i guess it's max now you know i mean no one knows what i call this hbo service um but yeah so basically uh the precursor was doing like these syphilis experiments in guatemala where they were like basically doing the same thing that they were doing in tuskegee in alabama and uh oh giving people syphilis maybe knowingly unknowingly uh definitely no people getting untreated syphilis for prolonged periods of time and uh just kind of seeing uh you know what's what's going on so there's a guatemala syphilis experiments the cia wikipedia let's see what they have to say about

it yeah all right so the guatemala syphilis experiments were united states-led human experiments conducted in guatemala from 46 to 48 the experiments were led by physician john charles cutler sounds like a real straight shooter who also participated in the late stages of the tuskegee syphilis experiment oh so he was a he was a veteran he's got experience doctors doctors infected 1300 people including at least 600 soldiers and people from various impoverished groups including but not limited to sex workers orphans inmates of mental hospitals and prisoners with syphilis gonorrhea and cancroid without the informed consent of the subjects only 700 of them received treatment. In total, 5,500 people were involved in research experiments, of whom 83 died by the end of 1953, though it is unknown

whether the injections were... Oh, I wonder what was responsible. Serology studies continued until 1953, involving the same vulnerable populations in addition to children from state-run schools, an orphanage, and rural towns. However, the intentional infections of patients ended with the original study. And on October 1st, 2010, the US President, Secretary of State, and Secretary of Health of Human Services formally apologized to Guatemala for the ethical violations. Guatemala condemned the experiment as a crime against humanity. Multiple unsuccessful lawsuits have since been filed in the US. Yeah, so if anyone's listening, obviously don't worry because we said sorry. Right.

And so, yeah, I guess we're good. Yeah, it's over now. But that was from an organization that people allege is basically the precursor to USAID. And then with the USAID stuff, obviously earlier in the time, there was like, okay, we're going to give rice to farmers in Haiti, and then it created a huge agricultural issue where then they were not able to farm their own rice. They kind of like monocropped, and then they became dependent they became dependent on the us government for rice and stuff like that so

people point out like okay there's there's good stuff happening though also like if you look up like the benefits of usa it's like yo it seems like you know millions of people got access to mosquito nets there's people that have been fed all over the world from these projects so this is amazing you know there's obviously good things that have been been done with the budget but that's not what people want to talk about. Obviously not. Because it seems like as Elon Doge is kind of pointing out, it's like, oh, there's been a ton of stuff that's basically acting in maybe more nefarious means. So some of the other things are like money laundering is a big part of it that people are pointing out. They're like both foreign nationals and diplomats and heads of state in other countries are kind of skimming a little piece here and there.

U.S. politicians and congresspeople, maybe they broker the deal and they're able to allocate aid and maybe get a little kickback, da-da-da. And then a big part of it is obviously the soft power side, which is, hey, let's build up these countries, give them some money, curry favor with the governments over there. And then maybe even put like some assets, put some cover guys that kind of go out and they help, you know, sort of facilitate some of the aid, but they're also on the ground meeting people. Meaning it's a vehicle to get access. Perhaps. Again, none of this has necessarily been proven. I'm not an expert on the topic, but that's how it seems to me. Now, some of the things and some of the headlines, which I got to do all the research on, because like you said, we got to figure out what's real and what's not. There's things that are misreported.

But there's certainly stuff we see in there that is not only sketchy, it's straight up corrupt. It's using soft power in ways that a lot of us would deem completely unnecessary and perhaps power hungry. But the interesting question you and I were actually talking about off camera before we started is the the difficult you know catch 22 here which is that do you have some situations not all of them but are certainly not guatemala syphilis experiments but do you have other situations where you are faced with the option of doing nothing and letting say oh i don't know china fill that role because they don't give a fuck about human rights or democracy or not corrupt money, if you will, at the lowest level. Or do you do some of these things to counteractively counter that? Yeah.

It's a tough question. So this is basically, I believe, the dude from Connecticut. He's a senator, I want to say. His name is Chris Murphy, maybe. Yes, that's right. And yeah, he said basically that verbatim. He was like this sort of disillusion and pause. Because right now, again, from my understanding, the department's not completely dissolved.

It's on a pause for, I think, 90 days, which is what the executive powers allows for, to basically do an audit and see what's going on with the money. He said basically that exact same thing in front of the building as it shut down. He's like, this is a absolute miscarriage of justice. And we need USAID because we need to follow China around the world because they're doing basically the same thing. And we need to, you know, sort of stamp out their power grabs in all these other countries that are, you know, disenfranchised, you know, vulnerable. And we need to be there to, you know, protect them and basically bring them in on our side.

And so you hear that and you're like, yeah, that's also a good point. So even justifying the soft power, that's not even necessarily the eight. That's just the soft power part. It's like, yeah, I see that point also. But it's like the people that are on these arguments, they want everything or nothing. It's like everything else in our politics. Yeah. So a guy like that, and I haven't seen all the stuff stuff he said so i don't want to put words in his mouth

but he's perhaps at least insinuating justifying all of it including things that are straight up corrupt straight up breaches of you know the rights of like the agencies to make decisions on their own that should that should be made above them that kind of thing like with what the people elected to be put in power to make those decisions you know they could take all that side and then someone else could say fuck it get rid of all of it which also you know again like you probably don't want to like there there had there has to be a reason that the cia for example may do some things does that mean that I like or support MKUltra and won't call that out?

No, it doesn't. But, like, can I point to things they do that are probably very fucking necessary for the survival of the country I live in and enjoy? Yeah, I can. Yeah, it's like, to me, saying, is the CIA good or bad? Yeah.

It's like saying, like, is government good or bad? It's both. Is history good or bad? You're like... The government, we always want to say it's like saying like is government good or bad it's both is history good or bad you're like the government we always want to say it's bad like i always want to say that yeah of course and it mostly is just because it's like a giant institution but like at least when you look at things in individual aspects from pieces of the government you can find things and be like all right to me it's mostly bad but there's a few good things there. And there's a few – forget the word even good. Like if you're not comfortable using it at home because you're so pissed about other shit, which I fully understand, say there's a few useful things there.

There's a few necessary things there. We got some nice roads. You know what I mean? The train runs on time mostly. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. And obviously that's obviously a reduction.

But, yeah, there's a ton of good things that happen within something like USAID. But it is, again, people want clear narratives. Like typically when I'm doing explanations on stuff, no one's really happy. Like it would be so much easier just to like take a hard line and be like, USAID is bullshit, it's corrupt, here's why. And you could make that argument completely justified. It'd be so easy to do. But then you could also make the argument like, no, USAID is helping

a lot of people. Look at this kid that was starving two years ago that now is going to high school like this is obviously good and this is a result of usa you could easily make that argument and i think with most things the truth kind of lies in the middle and it kind of you know you have to be acknowledging both sides of the argument both politically but also on this issue like you know morally yeah and uh make an assessment it's like yeah things are are good and bad it's the post and comment effect though of of society and social media and what we done because the posts that get the most attention are one that take a hard line stance on the other end and the comments that get the most attention are the ones that fight back against that and say

fuck you you're a traitor yeah right and so we have to live in this world where that's what we see publicly but what we don't see is there because i i know these people there are a lot of people who do see nuance in these things they may lean one way or another or say there's more bad or more good in it but they're reasonable people who are like okay i could see this this or that but they're not the ones not only are are they not the ones who are incentivized to get attention online because that's not what goes viral but they also end up being the ones who are the most quiet online because they don't want to get in the middle of this fucking you know these crazy people who are fighting over shit that happens all the time yeah i mean you see it because like you do this job there are comment sections that will get commandeered by one line

of thought yeah and then there's a lot of people you'll see like the like ratio is really good and a lot of people dm you like hey by the way i don't know what the comment section was doing but that was fucking awesome yeah it's just how it is yeah of people DM you like, hey, by the way, I don't know what the comment section was doing, but that was fucking awesome. Yeah. It's just how it is. Yeah, yeah. No, people like certainty. Like, you know, especially when you have a limited amount of time. Most people in this country are, you know, raising kids.

They're working jobs. They're taking care of their families. They're involved in their local community. And they got their own shit going on. And it's hard to parse every little thing that comes out specifically in the age of information war, and where every little story from across the world is coming into your inbox, and you have to decipher what is happening. Even if you're getting true facts, you have to decipher, is this good or bad?

And it's so much easier just to have someone be like, hey, here's what it is. It's certainly this. And even if that's omitting things, I think people would rather omit things for just the piece of, you know, clarity. And I feel like I'm in a position where I'm kind of seeing both sides to most of these issues that happen politically, where I'm like, yeah, I don't like, it's not a comfortable place to be. I wish I could just take a hard line and be like, look,

I'm saying this, but it's just, I don't know. It doesn't feel right just to omit other facts, just to kind of make a simple sort of happy narrative. I don't know. We're also young, too. Like, we have so much more to have to see, like, happen to us in life. No, this is gonna change for me. I'm like, kid's gonna turn 12 and be like, I'm dating a robot.

I'm like, you're not fucking bringing a robot in my house. All right? You listen to me, boy. All right? This is, we date women and trans women. All right? That's what we do here, okay? We don't date robots.

We are, we, that's probably someone's bit. It's that type of vibe. It's going to change for me. I think as I get older. What's that saying? People like liberals are... Liberals have a... If you're young and you're liberal, if you're young and you're conservative,

you have no heart. If you're old and you're liberal, you have no brain. I've heard that. I think there's a lot more nuance to it of course like everything i get it but that's the thing i think i'll get old and just be like fuck you people get off my lawn these kids dude i listen to a lot of wood and grant torino yeah i listen to a lot of alex o'connor the the youtuber i love i love his content o'connor yeah he's uh i'll shout him out he's's a he's a philosophy YouTuber. He's specifically like an atheist sort of like YouTuber and

and podcaster. He's great and just talks a lot about sort of religion and sort of, you know, things pertaining to the divine and consciousness and reality and sort of how we understand stuff. But he always says that his favorite complaint is the complaint about the elderly to the young

like if you go across history across time yeah this guy he's he's the man um but yeah he goes across history across time sorry one more thing on him one of the things i like about he's very diplomatic and he's very sincere and he'll debate you know the hardcore christians and he'll know you know the christian argument as well as they do. You know, he's like, he's an excellent interlocutor and debater. He's awesome. But yeah, the thing he always points out is like the old arguing and, you know, complaining about the young. It is an argument that has gone on for ages. Yep, forever. Socrates has a quote. He's like, children, you know, they don't sit with their legs crossed. They don't respect their elders. They don't have, you know, they don't have decorum. And that happening in you know what like 20 bc or whatever you know

like it's been it's been going on forever there's guys in the 17th century being like oh the children they don't say you know pull the carriage up they just say like carriage you know like just complaining about slang stupid shit and it's the same thing so it'll happen to us yeah it's gonna be great part of it like the older the people get, I would imagine the less they are, they want to see change because there's higher stakes to it. And it's evolutionary and biological. You're slower to be able to react to things or get comfortable in new scenarios. Whereas when you're done, you're like, yeah, I'll fucking rip that beer bottle and fucking put that line right there too. It's just like your brain's not fully formed and

you can accept things that happen but i always go back to that old don draper line which it probably he didn't invent that but they had it in the show where he's like change is neither good nor bad it simply is and there's probably times where there's change that is good or bad but in general like he's right that's that's all that ever happens like today what happens tomorrow is going to be different in some way even by a small degree from today and you keep adding up those days eventually that degree increases it's just how society moves yeah and that's kind of just how i look at most things whether it's politics looking at the usa thing whether it's change happening culture i'm like is it good or bad like it just sort of is obviously there's certain moral issues

that are going to be objectively wrong across culture across time where i'm going to be like no this is obviously bad right but generally speaking it's like yeah things are things just are how do you judge some people though like the easiest example to come up with would be like look at someone who objectively on so many levels is such a respected guy in history who i have a lot of respect for like a george washington right own slaves yeah how do you judge someone like that when that's objectively a horrible thing to do no one's arguing that that's okay but not to write it off like in their times there were there was barbarianism in a way and a lack of appreciation for human rights across all people that would allow an institution like that to be ingrained

in society to where it's normalized yeah i mean it's tricky like again i don't know if they're really that one is tough specifically because i don't know if there is a proper justification because it's not like i've heard people say like oh history is a different country and uh people do things in different countries that are different than us and history is you know no different the issue that i have with that is that uh in the time that you know gw was was you know owning slaves uh a lot of the world said that it was bad i mean like i think i think britain had like sort of outlawed like transatlantic slave trade i don't know the exact dates but not yet I don't think.

But Britain was way ahead of it. I'm pretty sure Mexico banned slavery before. All these countries, both in our region and even in our similar cultural affect, had banned it at that point. And America was still holding on. I think it's ultimately, it boils down to greed. Yes, I agree. The incessant ability for humans to want more money, more power, more influence, even if that means subjugating an entire race of people

to the worst type of slavery or the worst type of punishment you can endure. And the thing that kind of bothers me with his example in particular is that there was something, at least consciously, that he recognized in that because he put in his will that when his wife dies, they should all go free so it's like why should they go free then great why not just let him free now george washington is also an interesting example that you bring up because i'm pretty sure i mean i mean it's on the record it might be worth fact checking he is uh he was

one of the greatest land prospectors in american history and then then by the time he retired, everyone looks at his retirement. They're like, oh, my goodness, this guy. Like he stepped down. I think he did four years, I'm pretty sure. I think he only did. He did eight. He did two terms. And so he steps down after the two terms, kind of sets that standard.

He's like, everyone loves it. And people kind of miss the fact that it's not like he lived this life of humility and squalor. No, he was born. He was wealthy. And I think to this day, adjusted for inflation, I think George Washington was like the fifth wealthiest president ever. Oh, I didn't know.

Or something like that. I don't know if there's a way to double check that. Like presidential wealth adjusted for inflation. Yeah, how wealthy was George Washington? Like again, apparently that was part of the impetus for the Revolutionary War. He was like, look, we can fight this war. A lot of people might die.

I might die. But if we win, America will be independent, which is great. But also, I will be absurdly wealthy. Yeah, we all will be. I mean, it was untapped land. But Georgie, in particular, had a, you could consider it a financial incentive, is what I've heard

some people point out. I spoke to a guy on the pod that... George Washington, $708.5 billion adjusted. Kennedy, $1.3 billion. Who's number one? Donald Trump, $3.5. All right, that makes sense. But that's hilarious. But look who's four right after it go up a little bit, Alsee go go go up to number four thomas jefferson another one 285 he's another tricky one because thomas jefferson was almost worse because he was worse not only did he have slaves he had uh children yeah and uh again people say like oh yeah he had kids with slaves i'm like i don't know if that was consensual we gotta look we gotta look at the data on that one uh but he had children with slaves and then i don't even think after his death he freed his own enslaved children and you gotta look at that

and you're like all right that's not that's not good yeah no jefferson isn't isn't doing too well and it is i think it's indicative of the human condition to uh overlook giant moral blind spots in the pursuit of greed. Yes. And that this guy was like, look, this is beneficial to me and my family, so I'm going to do the most inhumane thing you can think. Yeah, they're ambitious.

But it's such a dichotomy for us, because on the one hand, it's like we love America. The Founding Fathers were proper, brilliant philosophers. Truly, we look at them as these old colonial renegades. They were proper philosophers. They studied the classics. They were like you know how to build a republic like they were really brilliant people they wrote one of the most amazing political documents of all time probably the most amazing perhaps right like magna carta hammer robbie's code fucking

declaration of independence constitution like it's remarkable what they write and they put things in there that everyone agrees with all All men are created equal. Except these ones. Like the Tosh joke. Daniel Tosh has a great joke. He's like they were signing that shit like all men are created equal. You know what we mean. You know what I mean?

Like it's crazy. Like how could such brilliant people, such profound thinkers also subjugate an entire ethnic group to the worst type of humiliation? It's a lot to wrestle with for sure. I think it boils down to greed i think genuinely that's that's what it comes down i think that's what it is and washington's such a fascinating guy from personality perspective because the when when you look at all the historians who study him and have written books on him he was this guy who knew and i'll use the word like he knew how to manipulate in the sense that he knew how to play the role of oh i'm just honest george i cut down there i cut down the cherry tree and didn't lie to my dad about it yeah my teeth are made of wood yeah or like be able to say that

you know i i don't want this job i i couldn't possibly be qualified for this but use that as a way to get the job as an example that's how he got the job to be general of the army which obviously turned out great but he tried to act like i don't want this thing but he showed up in his full you know military uniform to counter the fucking meeting where they were going to decide this like yeah you know he's putting on a dress for the job you want yeah exactly and you know another guy that the guy I think who had it the most figured out and was the closest to being right, who was also like definitely a party guy and had his own flaws was Ben Franklin. I read a lot – like when I was in the Amazon with Paul, I read like three books about Ben Franklin. I was just fucking tearing through them.

And he – that motherfucker was – he was so ahead of his time man because he he was he was this he had so many different skills had talents and so many he was curious about everything he fucked everything with a pulse you know lived transatlantically like on on both sides of the atlantic whenever he wanted different points in his life and you know somehow was also this guy who had great ideas about not knowing what he didn't know for example about god and religion but respecting some of the things that could make it good and then also was someone who did look at things like slavery as the years went on and was it was a little more no pun intended black and white about it like wait a minute you know like at the beginning like he was like, no, this is part of it.

And then eventually it was like, hold up a minute. And he said more than other guys did, which tells you there are people who had the ability to have some, quote unquote, agency then that maybe didn't. Which is, you know, it's the one elephant in the room to tussle with those guys. And it's like, you know, I don't think you should tear down history. Like, I get really pissed off when people are like take down religion listen people are imperfect but i understand where it's like you can at least teach like hey they had this one thing really wrong yeah yeah i think you're the only guy to ever do ayahuasca and read american history i've never met someone's like dude i did ayahuasca i'm like you see god you're like

i met ben franklin, how crazy is that? Bro, it was crazy. We were, like, chilling. We were smoking weed. It was like, bro, like, he was a good guy. I'm telling you. That was the last night we met. Dude, Ben was misunderstood, bro. He was just a weekend.

It was crazy. You got to understand. I had not taken any time off in over four years at that point. And I went down there for two weeks. And let's see what I'll attest to it. I shut the phone off and just was like out in nature having a good time and the one thing i had which i was very happy to have was a kindle because i it's my favorite thing to do is sit and read books i

never get to do it anymore yeah i like like i used to read two books a week before i did this job and now the best i do is like when i'm falling asleep you know i fall asleep with the kindle on my face i got through three fucking pages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so down there, I was just like, Paul's like, damn, you're tearing through this. I'm like, fuck yeah, bro. I'm sitting in the Amazon. Like, let's fucking read a book.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome, dude. It's nice to unplug. Oh, that's fire. Dude, I look at some of the, like Paul's work and just being out in the Amazon, dude. It's amazing. I hate that I'm one of these guys now, but like, I could pull a Michael Rockefeller. Just, just go live with a tribe real quick.

You know what I mean? Like I really, I actually believe you. I like, I would be so down and I hate, like, I know that I look like, I know. I've seen your studio. I know. Right. I know that I like, I'm like the mayor of a farmer's market or some shit. Like, I know that's what I look like.

And it, but it's true. Like I am the stereotype. I'm like, dude, I would go down there. I believe that. Michael Rockefeller did it right. You know his whole story? I don't know. Tell everyone the story.

Oh, Michael Rockefeller. Is this like a Rockefeller or like a Rockefeller? This is a proper capital R Rockefeller. You know what I'm saying? He was like the nephew of John D or something. I don't know. An heir to Standard Oil. He got a bunch of cash.

And he was like a young dude living in the Northeast, I'm pretty sure, going to these elite Ivy League institutions and says, you know what? I'm going to New Guinea. He pops down there, starts living with the locals. He's going back and forth. He loves it.

He loves being with the people, which apparently is a common trait amongst history. Detour. Sebastian Junger writes in his book Tribe that in the colonial period in the United States, like tons of like colonialists that were coming over, like the kids, they would go off and live with the natives

and never come back. Never come back. The opposite never happened, you know, unless they were like, you know, swooped up in the night. I mean, like they'd be like, you're coming with us. But yeah, people would go off and Michael Rockefeller, no different.

He goes out there, lives with the tribe. And according to the legend, Michael Rockefeller. We don't have a record? It's just a legend? It's contested. Oh, it's contested. Michael Rockefeller was eaten by cannibals. Oh!

This is what some people allege, okay? There might be more of the story. He goes down there. They basically lose contact with him. The other people that were in the area, I'm almost positive it was New Guinea. Might want more of the story. He goes down there. They basically lose contact with him. The other people that were in the area. I'm almost positive it was New Guinea. Might want to double check that. He goes down there.

He's living with the people, having a good old time. There's pictures of him just, like, chilling, posted up with the boys. Just, like, doing dude shit. Like, fucking killing baboons. Just, like, living the life. And, yeah, basically, it might have been Indonesia. But basically, he goes down. Close enough.

Yeah, right? I don't know the difference. And he, yeah, look at him, dude. He's in New Guinea. Oh, go to that picture in the middle, right below. Yeah, that one, dude. Oh, no. That dude looks like he's about to eat him. This is the last known photo of Michael Rockefeller.

He got eaten. Yeah. So I think what is alleged by the people that were around him at the time is that they were on a raft and – He's smiling. Well, he does – he looks like – yeah. I'll leave that there. He basically is like, yeah, I'm going to go – he's on this raft.

They lose their oar or something and he's like, I can see the land. It's not far. I'm just going to pop off and swim over and then I'll get some help and then be able to pull you guys in uh don't worry and don't we won't sun's going down and i think the people that were on the boat with him were not able to confirm whether or not he made it to land so some people suspect that he drowned uh some people suspect he made it to land maybe got caught up in a bad little situation you know i mean the gang that is the face of a man who says you're gonna mysteriously drown later because that's what the story is gonna be yeah yeah dude

it's a tough look i mean he's got a hat i don't even know what that it's like a fez he is looking at him like fucking hannibal elect they're looking at the guard yeah it's not it's not but he didn't know how to smile they don't know what cameras are you know what i mean like they're like smiles like what's a smile we don't know how to say cheese well that's a cheese right there they don't what I mean? Like, they're like, smile. They're like, what's a smile? We don't know how to say cheese. That's a cheese right there. They don't even have cheese. I don't even know if they had goats and shit. That's a cheese.

They've never seen cheese in their life. And so he's just down there. And this is where the story gets even crazier. Some people think that he didn't drown. Some people think he wasn't eaten by cannibals. Some people believe that he spent the rest of his life assimilated and living amongst the tribes people that guy he's whiter than the middle of an oreo so click the photo uh right to the to the right right there so this was a photo that was taken in like the 70s i'm sorry the one above

that one this one was taken in the 70s that basically showed a bunch of the people from like from the region the people group that he was living with. And they have a photograph. And as you can see on the right side there... Oh, shit. They think that's him? Some people suspect that that's Michael Rockefeller. But he's wearing, like, human clothes. He wouldn't still be wearing those. He'd be wearing, like, a net

or some shit. Human clothes is crazy, bro. I mean... But no, he's fully butt ass he's naked oh oh it's not the one on the left that's the one on the right good i was like he looks like fucking steve irwin what are we talking about no one of this guy can't read a book bro he. He's like, three pages in, he's like, who's Khaleesi? Hey, listen.

It could be a one is not like the other situation, or the lighting of the sun could be shining in such a way that it goes from, like, you know, dark roast coffee to, like, mocha latte type deal. It might be a light skin. You know what I mean? It might be a little Chris Brown situation. We don't know. We don't know.

We don't know what that is. But people have suspected that perhaps Michaelael rockefeller has gone off to live with the locals my dream well i would imagine if the rockefellers find that out they'd tell everyone he drowned they wouldn't want anyone to know that so i'm saying it's like bro we're america's royal family you know i mean we are like the the proper you know we're the boys and uh then one of our sons just dips. That's not a good look. Just dips.

You know what I mean? Why can't he just do what American royals do now, just like crack and bang hookers, put it on a laptop? That's right. It's so easy. That's what you're supposed to do. You ever seen that meme of like nobody, and then it says Hunter Biden whenever he's going to do something illegal,

and this guy with like 50 million co-pros. I will say in defense of Hunter, a couple of things. One, that's how I want my president's kid. I don't need the president being a good dad. I don't need him going to all the softball games. I don't need him to be in there for basketball. I need him to be running the country. I need you making policy, pushing America forward.

Take over the world. Do simple experiments. Whatever you got to do. Barisma. Whatever you need. Don't be taking care of your kids. You got to take care of us. This paternalism can't go to your actual family.

It's got to go to the people, the citizens. So first off, maybe Biden's a goat, all right? If his son is cracked out, it's like, all right, he did something right. Secondly, secondly, if you were to get a beer with any of the president's kids, tell me you're not picking Hunter Biden first. He's at the he's towards the top of the list, if not the top. I'm saying he's an artist. He's a cool artist. He knows how to party. He's got the plug. He does crack. He's doing crack. He's fire, dude. Dude, have you ever heard an irish person say crack uh actually yeah because my buddy joey deef and matt ferrara had a show that they called good crack it's hilarious back in the day and it

was based on irish people saying the word crack but i can't remember what it sounds like in my head yeah it's literally like crack or crake is what they'll say the crack crake and they'll say like yeah what's the crack and it literally means like what's up what's going on what's good yeah exactly and uh it's like just for like a good time so my buddy jason irish dude living in mexico uh takes a greyhound from mexico to new york city that sounds like the worst decision of all time crazy right i take a greyhound from new york city to atlantic city i want to kill myself it's insane he did like four days on this greyhound it's just him and a bunch of mexican dudes just on this greyhound they're getting to the border they gotta do border patrol it takes like 10 hours they got

to check everyone's papers ids paper you know passports everything and they ask him they're like the fuck are you doing like oh you know i'm just going to new york city and they're like why are you get them off the bus yeah they're like what they're like are you the foreman like what what is going and they're like no no i'm just here i'm you know i'm i'm i'm i'm irish but i'm living in mexico mike we got one yeah literally and they say why are you taking the bus and he goes you know for the crack and they go yeah you're gonna come with them he literally said it like not thinking like absent-minded just on some irish shit like yeah for the good times you know for the crack and they're like yeah so what's in your bag? Get the dogs out.

Who are you? And he got detained for a while. Then they sent him up. They're like, all right, he's just dumb. Just doesn't know English. That's fine. Yeah, I remember my buddies, Mike and Mike Spear and Quinn, and then this other kid, Ty, who grew up with Mike,

decided to take a road trip to Montreal, like, right when we graduated college. And Ty like was spear's friend growing up people know spear from the show here but spear and quinn were two guys in our crew in college who were like diametrically opposite spear was like a god guns and country fucking conservative football lineman quinn was like a fucking hippie who lived on communes and you know talked about socialism and shit like that. And somehow they were friends. So then Ty, who's Spears' friend, is like a way more politically incorrect South Jersey, like trashy Italian, like I'm going to throw this all in your face. All the Democrats are evil kind of guy, whatever.

So they go on this trip and they're going to go. I'm not going to say what they were going to do. They were going to go have fun. And so they get to the fucking border in like a beat up fucking – Spear drove like the shittiest car. And the guys like come to the door and they go through each person. So they ask Spear like what his situation is. He's like, oh, my name is Mike Spear. I just graduated Bucknell University. I'm going to law school in the fall, going to be a lawyer, personal injury, working for my dad, whatever.

The guy's like, okay. Then he goes to Ty. And Ty goes, well, I'm going into my fifth year of a five-year program at Temple. I'm double majoring in X, Y, and Z, whatever. And then they go to Quinn, who is the smartest guy in the car. He's a fucking genius.

He's a philosophical, like, up here, never did work, always got A's. And he goes, yeah, my name's quinn i'm half cuban i don't know out of a job looking for work and they're like yeah you're coming with us and ty's like what the fuck you just graduated bucknell you son of a bitch they're gonna catch us with everything and they didn't catch him but it was it was cool i think about that all the time because i'm like what if i just got to the border and i just froze and said something stupid like that like could i just be arrested arrested for months at a time?

That shit scares me, dude. I don't do well with authority confrontations. Every time I've ever been pulled over by a cop, all the windows down, keys on the roof. What seems to be the problem, officer? Yeah, exactly. I am not a sovereign citizen. I am terrified. Whatever you need me

to do, I'll do it. Going through border control, anytime I go to a checkpoint or I travel to another country, I freeze up. They're like, and what is the purpose of your travel? I'm like, I just have a good time. I don't, what do you need me to say? Like, I just get so scared. I just start rambling off. And then they're like, I'm a comedian.

They're like, oh, yeah, just whatever. Yeah, you're good. You're good. I was like, which, first off, the perfect cover. Why is that the perfect cover? I mean. You try and make everyone laugh. You travel around.

You meet the people. You get in touch with the culture. I'm going to start using that. Everything can be under the guise of like, oh, I'm trying to do research for a bit. That's why I need to know where the leader of this rebel group is living. Yeah, take me to the cocaine. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's why, yeah.

Who's running the cartel? You know what I mean? Like doing, you know. So if there's any CIA guys listening, I'm open. Okay? But I get so nervous where I can't i just like i freeze up like it's crazy i talked to uh fernando puente he's oh yeah he was on danny's show too he's unbelievable he's he's awesome and uh he was a coyote he was a coyote he was bringing guys through the border and the way he was doing it is uh through the checkpoint so he's a u.s citizen and a uh and also a mexican

citizen and uh yeah he was bringing us through the checkpoints and literally just like have a dude three guys behind him fake paperwork or a stolen passport put him in the you know a vest to be like i'm going to la to work for the day and i'll be back tonight and he just had to like muscle through it every time just like yes i'm this is what we're doing and like he would just go through just like stone face yeah you gotta you know your hand can't shake the whole bit like that bro i can't handle that i'm not built for that maybe i wouldn't be good in the cia actually yeah no i i think about it a lot like with these guys and what they have to do i was telling you i just had this guy matt hedger in here who was a knock yeah you know his job was

to be an international criminal completely off the books, deniable to the government, no record of him. Yeah. And like you get in the middle, this guy got in the middle of a top four biker gang for three and a half years and then worked its way to the cartels for 10, 11 years. And he told one story where I asked him, I said, what was the hardest thing you ever had to witness? And he said, they took me down to a room.

He said it was in the cartels. They took me down to a room. And there were a bunch of cartel guys. It was like a basement or something like that. No, it was a warehouse. Like straight out of a movie. A bunch of cartel guys around a table. And there was some guy crying and pleading who was like being held down on the ground.

And in the middle was like a nine-year-old boy. he was tied down it was that guy's son and that guy had taken money and for 10 minutes they took turns taking a carrot peeler to the kid's face what the well i know while while he screamed and he said i had to it was a test of could I handle this? I mean like was I legit? And he said I had to stand there dead seriously like this was perfectly fine and not only watch this but literally hear it, feel it, know it, and compartmentalize and put that aside. And this guy was able to do that. The thing about this dude is his number one trade is empathy yeah and i and no no no i believe him too because most cia spies like like the guys we we've talked to before like bustamante and stuff it's a different thing their job is to be dangerously

on the line of being a sociopath the cia checks for that but when you're gonna going to go do something like this, that's that deep cover or whatever, for whatever reason, like that's not necessary. He explained it on the podcast, but that's not necessarily what they're looking for. They're looking for someone who can really make a relationship with some of these dangerous people that they're going to work with, but they have to compartmentalize the fact that they're doing that. And they can't then assume that that person is now a good person because they're their friend so it's like this weird backhanded empathy but someone with that skill had to then stand there for something like that and say don't break don't break don't break yeah dude not i not i i couldn't do that bro ever it's insane yeah it's like i don't know i just get i get anxious yeah dude i do i i said

did you have a plan if they handed you the peeler and he and he said yeah he said he had a way of getting out of it which was did he say yeah he what did he say leslie do you remember i think he was like what you guys were discussing being like he was going to be like what are we doing like you know you already discussed this and he's like well this isn't what i do this is what i do and he's like we discussed this already what do you mean you want to get in trouble now with the boss like we like he made it sound like you're going to put heat on them and then it was like okay back off but he was like really good in character immediately yeah so i asked him at one point to get into character because i said this guy's so unassuming and like and like

laid back shy almost like out there a little bit and talk slow and low and you got to pull from him so i said what was your what was your character like did he talk like you and he goes no he talked faster and louder and then i said all right let's turn it on and he got like kind of nervous for like 30 seconds like lean forward with the mic and he's like oh okay like you know what's the situation and i i just thought of something i'm like all right i am a cartel middleman i'm responsible for shipping product once it gets over the border getting it to its final destination i told you there was going to be like 20 30 kilos or you told me there was going to be 20 30 kilos or something there wasn't an i'm pissed off and i

didn't i was like in the moment i'm like i can't put it on the mexican accent i gotta make this so i like just kept it high level and like stayed out of it myself and he like took a second and then and then immediately got into character started talking loud and faster but controlled not like trying too hard and one of the things he had said shortly before that is i said how would you get guys like when when they're really threatening you with something on on a very specific thing that's a problem how would you get them off of it so that they weren't thinking about that anymore he's like i'd immediately come up with a bigger problem and in i forget my wife does that she will no she does that a lot yeah like she'll be late but i

didn't do the dishwasher so it's like all right like who's really at fault you know what i mean yeah but that's just your wife like this is high stakes life or death situation where you don't think it's life or death for me yeah you think oh you think it's just a walk in the park i don't think mrs gagdon's walking around with a fucking steak knife to stab you you're kind of you're bringing the bread home. You got to take care of the kid. Yeah, that's fair. That's a good point.

She's financially savvy. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We have a mutual interest. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Whereas these guys, they can slice your head off and replace you the next day. Yeah.

So the way he did it immediately, like I got into character for a second like, oh, yeah, no, that is a huge problem. I'm like, wait, fuck, he did it to me. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah, no, these guys are good. I talked to this dude, Bob Hamer, that went undercover. Bob Hamer. He did it to me. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah, no, these guys are good. I talked to this dude, Bob Hamer, that went undercover. Bob Hamer.

Let's pull it up. FBI guy. Give that a shout out. Went undercover. Oh, is this the pedophile guy? Yeah. Dude. He took down like a whole group of pedophiles.

And he was like, I went in like undercover to like join this group and see what they're all about. Was it like NAMBLA, literally? Yeah, that was the organization and uh he literally infiltrated like probably the worst people on the face of the planet like just like yeah he's the worst uh he's great but the people obviously that he's infiltrated are like the worst and he's like yeah i had to go undercover he's like i wrote for like their journal you know i mean and like what do you mean oh like their newspaper kind yeah because like the organization functions the way he was explaining is he's like, I wrote for like their journal. You know what I mean? And like. What do you mean? Oh, like their newspaper kind of thing? Yeah.

Because like the organization functions, the way he was explaining it is like this organization functions where like they're trying to like be a legit organization that's trying to like pass laws. You know what I mean? To like make it so that what they're doing isn't illegal. Like maps, that kind of thing. Type shit. Yeah. It's like fucking psychopath shit where they're like trying to be like, no, it's fine. And actually they wanted it.

It's like, it's, it's disgusting. And he was was like it was the toughest job i've ever had to do i went in and like they're not doing anything illegal at the at the parties you know i mean they're just talking about like the legislation they're trying to get guys out that were a part of the group that went to prison for literal pedophilia it's like crazy and uh yeah he went in and like got into the group for probably like a couple years and then set up a sting where he kind of like arranged for a few of them to like go to like a meeting to like meet a boy and then they crossed state lines so it became a federal case and then they were able to arrest i think like 10 of the members or something like that how i you've had this guy on a few times i

haven't seen those episodes i keep seeing it like it's one of those things where i look at the thumbnail i'm like not right now. Yeah. I'm like, I like this because that whole thing makes me sick. Yeah. But how, so this guy, two years, you said? Something like that. I don't remember the exact timeline, but it was a long period of time.

So did he ever get into situations where he was nervous that they were going to make him, like, try to meet a bully or something like that? Not necessarily because they had been infiltrated by cover agents before. they were going to make them like try to meet a bully or something like that not necessarily because they had been infiltrated by cover agents before and so they were like very careful like whenever they were like in the groups is the way he explained it they actually said in one of the meetings they were like we've been infiltrated before as a matter of fact we had an agent that was sitting right there and they pointed to the chair that he was in while he's wearing a wire and he was like oh and they didn't know that he was a you know undercover and uh yeah he had to he went through and like assimilated with these guys and then he said it was like i wanted to you know put their head through the wall

multiple occasions like they would say stuff and he'd be like this is uh reprehensible he had children himself like young kids at the time he was, I wanted to go in and just like fucking crack their heads. He's like, it was all the restraint. How did he become that guy? Like how did, because he has to turn on the attitudes when he's talking about it. He said at the time he was working that case, he was working a cartel case, and he was working a Chinese crime center case. And anytime the phone would ring, he had to like put on a different accent.

Fucking Daniel Day-Lewis out here. Yeah, literally, dude. It was crazy. He was like just like doing character work and uh yeah he said it was like one of the worst cases he ever dealt with but like one of the ones he's most proud of because he got you know potentially some of the worst guys on the planet like you take down like a chinese crime syndicate and it's like these guys are you know selling drugs in america shipping them in and they're trying to make money you know what i mean and sure they're giving people drugs

that are bad they're laced with shit people You know what I mean? And sure, they're giving people drugs that are bad. They're laced with shit. People are dying. That's obviously terrible. But something about, you know, obviously what these guys are doing, these NAMBA guys and just like the, you know, how reprehensible it is and how evil it is. He's like, that was the thing I was like really proud of. How – so it sounds to me like Jim DiIorio, who I've had on a bunch, spent 11 years on and off undercover. And he describes there's different aspects of being undercover within the fbi there's ones where you're a character actor and there's ones where you're the fucking main actor so he said there's ones where i had to go away for two three years

and live fully undercover at all times as that character and there's other ones where i was you know a recurring guest star or like i had to come in for a meeting and they knew me as this guy who did this thing but you know i think he was doing more of the latter i think he was kind of like coming in like when he was doing the chinese crime stuff he was like he owned the warehouse that they were storing their goods he owned the transportation company and he was like a rich guy that was trying to like you know double his money and yeah i can hold this stuff for you no problem and then they start going across state lines and they pin them. But yeah, dude, not for me. How big is that organization, NAML?

Is this like international or is it all – did he say it was all here? I mean he said like it also – it's like kind of dissolved a little. It doesn't exist in the same way. I don't know all the exact details, but I mean I'm sure these things exist in all different capacities. I mean the Epstein thing was – he's trafficking kids to no one. According to the government. These files are sealed forever yeah exactly like and i hope that they're sealed because they're doing the work you know to to get these people that were part of it but i don't know that whole gilane case that you know culminated back in 2021 i remember the day she got

arrested towards the beginning of the pandemic i want to say that was maybe like may 2020 jim diorio who was not with the fbi at the time told me that day as i called him i said she'll she'll be dead within a month and he said i know the people who are handling her directly the person in charge i guarantee you she will be alive and she will stand trial and she will be found guilty i was ready to i didn't i wasn't worth any money i was ready to be like i'll bet you everything i have wow he turned out to be right about that however you know those people don't control the way that the documents get handled and all that afterwards and that trial it lacks some coverage in the news they covered it but not you know like trial of the century like it should have been but it's in

federal court so you can't take fucking cameras in there which is such a bullshit rule number one number two it was like during this still like covet era so they were using that like as as an excuse with some things where you know jurors were afraid of you know being in there too long or whatever the fuck it was and the judge who's a federally appointed judge, literally ordered them to come to a conclusion and stay. I forget which days it was because there was like a weekend in the middle of it or something. And I believe, Alessi, the verdict came down.

I'd almost have to check this. If we can Google Ghislaine Maxwell verdict, I want to say it was December 27th, 2021. And I want to say that was a Wednesday. So it was packed in to the week after Christmas, which is the lowest slowest media week of the year and you know two days ahead of the weekend and then ahead of the new year and once the new year happens it's already gone and to put that also in perspective

fucking jeffrey epstein was found was found dead on a saturday morning in august the month that everyone is on fucking vacation and shit at the lowest news media time of the year. And I look at shit like this because the judge, they have this ruling, she gets found guilty. And then the judge is like, and by the way, all documents are sealed. And I'm like, they choked on us, right?

Yeah. And he's probably an intelligence asset, right? 100%. I'm pretty sure, who was it? Acosta was like the DA in Miami when he got charged the first time, when Epstein got charged in 2008, I think. And I think it was an off-the-record from someone else that basically said, that he said.

Came from above me. I was told, yeah, basically stand down. It was above me. Which, it's like, and then people really got on that guy, like, how dare you protect this dude? I do think sometimes because then he became like the department of labor or something like that and he had to resign but i do think about that sometimes and i go if the fucking cia walked into

your room and said you can't touch this you're not touching it yeah i don't give a fuck who you are yeah i mean you could be a martyr. You know what I mean? Yeah, you'd be dead. Yeah, those are options. Your family might be dead. Pull a Thomas More. You know what I mean? Tell the king of England, like, no, you can't divorce your wife.

And, yeah, and it's like they knew it was bad, but sometimes, you know. Yeah, it's possible. What do you think he was? I'm probably double agent or something. Like, working with the U.S., like, I think he was probably just taking it from whatever. I mean, he was getting funded by like Wexner, I think like a couple, you know, American billionaires, you know, allegedly they knew nothing that was going on, you know, that's probably true. And so, yeah, I don't know.

I assume it's probably from within the, from within the U S. The thing that I can't definitively prove, but that looks awfully strange to me. It just doesn't make sense because I studied – I haven't looked at this in a while because I was just so deep on this case for years, with Politico I want to say and now she's with another company. But she did an amazing podcast about – I think she did one about Epstein in particular and then one about the Maxwells. And some of the testimony she got was insane from people. And so between her stuff and then a bunch of other stuff I would go and find and read about i i put together these patterns and like jeffrey epstein's housekeepers i forget the guy's name but they were able to get

this guy recorded you know on mic being interviewed live in his kitchen for in one of tara's podcasts and he talked about how epstein was this wealthy guy in the 80s, had a nice place on the Upper East Side, whatever. And then in 1992, it just went like suddenly he had the Macy's house, which we know is the famous townhouse on West 71st Street or whatever it is. And then he had the private jet, got the place in Florida. Like it all just overnight happened like this. And that is also the same year that Maxwell's father committed suicide when he was drowned off his boat. Fell off a boat. Off his yacht in the middle of the fucking Atlantic Ocean, off whatever those islands are, off the west of of this fucking atlantic ocean you know off of whatever those islands are

off the east off the west coast of africa and somehow this guy robert maxwell who had been a media tycoon who built a legit company multiple legit companies somehow magically he left behind a 450 million dollar pension scam and left his whole family in debt. His sons were put on trial for it, found not guilty, by the way. And just conveniently, he wasn't this billionaire, even though he wielded all this power and legitimately did all these things. There was no money in that? I'm not saying he was a horrible guy, but there's no money in that? And that's right around the same time that Jeffrey Epstein suddenly was worth about that money? Oh, that's right around the same time that Jeffrey Epstein suddenly was worth about that money. Oh, that's fascinating.

And I go, and Jeffrey Epstein was backed by Wexner, you know, who had some interesting ties. I'll leave that there. I look at this and I go, that's what people need to dig on more. Yeah. The testimony's there. Yeah. I don't know. I'd love for them to publish that book, dude.

Who were all the people that were involved? Like, they must have leads. You know what I mean? Luigi Mang to publish that book, dude. Who are all the people that were involved? They must have leads. You know what I mean? Luigi Mangione's wearing 12 masks, kills a guy. They find him in two days. We can't figure out who's trafficking kids. I don't know.

America's weird with stuff like that. We still do child beauty pageants. Yeah, that's crazy. That is so weird to me, bro. Like a hot kid contest. That's crazy. Why are we doing this? For Nambla. Dude, what the fuck? Why are we just like, this is fine yeah man like this is it's crazy that we

just as a society like yeah it's whatever like i couldn't imagine being like a child beauty pageant dad like yeah you know i gotta fly home obviously my kids competing in the in the child wet t-shirt concert i gotta you know i gotta be down there like what like who are these people that are letting this happen like don't do that it's crazy and as a side we're just kind of like no that's fine there's things that we just like passively accept that they're like oh yeah that's just what we do even if you're like oh that's stupid you don't think about the second layer to it i'm like wait that's that's fucking wrong like what the fuck yeah yeah like amer America's bizarrely, like, not sexual. We're very puritanical.

We're very repressive with a lot of sexual stuff, but then simultaneously we kind of let stuff happen. Like, I was thinking about this, like, the word suck. Okay. You ever think about that? No. Like, it's something we would use in common vernacular, right? Yeah, that sucks.

I would tell my friend, like, oh, dude, you know, someone in my family, like, you know, got diagnosed with cancer. Be like, oh, dude, that sucks. I'm sorry, man. Yeah you know, got diagnosed with cancer. Be like, oh, dude, that sucks. I'm sorry, man. Yeah. And you break it down. You're like, what do you mean it sucks? Like, that's, you know, obviously he means it's a sad thing.

But suck is a sexual term. I never thought about that. It's inherently sexual. Like, what is, oh, my family member having cancer. It sucks penis. Like, yeah. Cancer sucks penis. That's what you're saying. Oh, your grandma died? cancer sucks penis that's what you're saying oh your

grandma died that sucks penis that your grandma died it's like we just kind of were like yeah i guess that's normal in ireland they just say crack exactly drugs and sex exactly where's the rock and roll that's what i'm saying bro yeah dude that's uh yeah there's little things we do all the time we're like yeah i guess that's just what say. And then sometimes that stuff like boils all on top of itself and like leads us down these roads because I'd straddle this line between I want us to have more freedom and more expression and things like that. But I don't want us to take advantage of it with things like sex and stuff like that to where we're like selling it to kids. Yeah. Which is exactly like you're a new father now. I'm sure you're at least thinking about this stuff even more i'm not

even a father i think about it all the time like they're selling sex to kids like even captain tazariak was making amazing points on that when he was in here you know obviously we're talking about some of the other stuff that that i think's crazy but he's going through like i don't care what race we're talking about like these kids are are being exposed to things and the internet's making it funny for them to be exposed to that all the time. And like, yeah, sometimes you'll look at something and you're like, that is a little funny. But then you got to think about the bigger picture of like, what are we accepting here? Yeah.

No, I don't know. I go back and forth sometimes with like, I was talking to my buddy Miles about this, like the porn bans that are happening. You know what I mean? Like apparently in Florida, you can't go on Pornhub. Allegedly. Allegedly. I didn't check. I don't know

if that's true i mean use a vpn this is what i've been told okay i'm not down there my childhood bedroom i wasn't calling you out but now now i might no i'm just putting it out there is what someone told me all right but yeah apparently there's all these places where like you know porn homes getting banned like porn's getting banned on the one hand you're like this is a limitation of you know freedom of speech like people should be allowed to consume the things they want to consume like this is the religious right in america that's coming through and taking the rights away from american citizens if consenting adults want to do something and other consenting adults want to consume it why can't they right but then on the other hand you're like all right like if a 14

year old went to a gas station and try to buy like you know a playboy the guy at the gas station would be like no way or pay me double you know they probably say pay me double they probably be like yeah give me give me 30 bucks you have a kid whatever but like here's some more yeah exactly yeah thank you but they say no they'd be like no you can't do that and so but if it's on the internet then everyone's like yeah no it's fine so i don't know i go back and forth i'm like i think like i don't know the way people are the access that that kids have specifically but i think people, some of the stuff that's on the internet, I'm a little bit like, ew.

Well, it's like where our democracy can be used against itself. Like you look at China, right? I don't like the CCP. I don't like communism. They're a totalitarian regime. Jeez, so political. You get so political on this show, dude. Listen, it is what it is.

This guy's saying he doesn't like communism. I don't like communism at all. That's why I don't like the fucking Washington Commanders. They're the fucking commies. It's co-work. This guy's saying he doesn't like communism. I don't like communism at all. That's why I don't like the fucking Washington Commanders or the fucking commies. It's co-work. Anyway. What's this drape behind you?

What color is that, huh? Listen. He's got a giant Chinese flag. It's burgundy. It's a giant Chinese flag. My mom bought it. You can't see. There's stars in the corner.

My mom bought it. I can tell you. She doesn't like communists. It's a giant, giant Chinese flag. The people at home don't know you're lying. Leslie, you've met my mom. She doesn't like communists, right?

I don't think so. Okay, good. She's a McCarthyist, big time? I mean, not quite, but probably not too far off. She's snitching on the neighbors? Nah, nah, she's cool. Goes to a Chinese restaurant? She's like, hold on. Think we got him. She's the one ordering Chinese at two different

restaurants and holding the phones together. Oh, dude. I love those. Bro, have you seen the dude? There's like this black dude that goes in these Chinese restaurants and speaks perfect Mandarin. No. Oh, it's the best, bro. I love watching his videos. It's like my dream.

Like my literal dream to like go into a Chinese restaurant and then just start busting out. They just look at him like, oh. Bro, it's great. They think he's Criss Angel, bro. Like they look at him, they're like, bro. Like that's Criss. Like the people are coming out.

Everyone's running around. They're like calling their grandmas. They like like that's like the people are coming out everyone's running around they're like calling their grandmas they're like whoa like people are dying there's chinese women dying in the place just seeing this guy speak mandarin they can't handle it it's awesome it's like that's my dream what's this guy's name i don't remember black guy speaking mandarin oh there's a bunch of guys that do it i mean a handful out of the loop there's a handful i don't know if other were probably maybe double digits what i was saying though in all seriousness is that you know you have this double standard where they can be a bad regime totalitarianism and all that but they can also use certain things to their advantage for example they can make their tiktok feeds for their

kids turn off at 9 p.m because they're not free speech and also make sure it's all science videos and learning videos and then make sure that our tiktok feed here is open 24 motherfucking 7 because we're a democracy freedom of speech and we're free and open and make sure those kids are looking at titties all day yeah you know like dumbing down their minds yeah and that's where it gets weird because like you want to stop these kinds of things but hypothetically maybe in order to stop those kinds of things you have to infringe on rights now i've always thought of it like and maybe some lawyers in the comments can really chew me up on this but should there be full freedom of speech prior to age 18 or is there rights of the of the parents to practice freedom of speech while not to practice freedom of speech

while not allowing full freedom of speech for their minor child? Oh, that's interesting. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if you're in a Call of Duty chat room, it's like, all right, you know what I mean? We're going to limit some of the freedom of speech here, all right? Y'all get a little free.

Y'all are pretty free in this Call of Duty chat room right now, all right? It's like it's wild, bro. But, yeah, that's an interesting thing like having uh yeah like i'm trying to think how that would manifest is that kind of how it is now like like i'm like obviously like under 18 you have a restriction of certain freedoms and rights right but yeah i'm curious yeah you don't have freedom of speech freedom of consumption on the internet but like now play that out let's say a fucking 13 year old kid sees and i'll make a hypothetical situation and say it's happening here it's not but

see some sort of genocide happening right or witnesses on some scale a genocide and wants to make a political but human rights statement on that genocide and for whatever reason his parents don't really care about that race and they're like no you can't say this yeah like what's a weasel yeah he took the words out of my mouth that's below my line exactly yeah you know it gets weird like if you play it out but if the kid just you know wants to wants to say there's no such thing as fucking 10 genders and his dad just got done a 12-hour shift and said shut the fuck up no son of mine saying that yeah you know and people be like oh it's infringing yeah yeah i don't know i think you gotta just like try to let kids be

kids as long as you can don't let them get too i mean i remember being 14 see going to faces of death.com faces of death.com yeah it was like yeah yeah don't do that dude it was just like i don't even know if i should say it was just like a website you could see people die and it was like like a guy that did fireworks and the fire exploded in his hand and that's like just got pictures of his hand exploded is this like run the gauntlet what is that yeah yeah it's like run the gauntlet okay do you remember like very similar it's insane like yeah tell them what run the gauntlet was elijah you've done it before run the Gauntlet was, Elijah. You've done it before. Run the Gauntlet is the one where you go on there and essentially

it goes more and more extreme. So it starts off with something very simple like maybe some guy eating his own crap. That's where it starts? That's where it starts. High bar. And then it'll be like, alright, if you can take that and do the next one. The next one will be something more extreme to the point where

it's like you're seeing a guy get his head beheaded by ISIS or some person killing his brother. Something so extreme you're just like, oh my gosh. The whole thing

in high school and middle school was who could go all the way through. Yeah, of course. You have some sickos that do it. This is a website

built for 16-year-old dudes. Unless he's a Christian. I just want to throw that out there. I feel like this was a part of the education at santa cruz right like this is christ was watching them the whole time and like they had a deal and you know it was cool yeah bro i don't know he read he shalleth runneth the gauntlet in the bible like you know ephesians fucking 517 he's like i'm doing it well that's another crazy thing because on the one hand it's like yeah i don't want my kid being

exposed to run the gauntlet that's crazy but on the other hand i will take my kid to church and there is you know the savior of the universe being murdered on a crucifix and we're all looking at it being like but that violence is okay well here's the thing you're you're in all seriousness though like you are and and i mean this in a good way you're very obsessed and curiously yeah like organized religion and the history around it and whatever and i think you look at it and like you're not an academic you're a comedian but i think you have a real academic approach to it which is great because like you have all different wild perspectives on there maybe not on a danny jones level i don't know if any of us are on that but like you have a lot of

different perspectives on it like what got you into being so curious about just religion in general oh i grew up really religious yeah my mom's like devout catholic uh and like yeah we're going to church all the time i actually met my wife at bible study when i was yeah like in high school like we just pulled up and we would like hang out by our car and just like talk till four in the morning like after bible study and stuff like so like that my faith revelations yeah that shit reminded me of you yeah i was just reading her psalms. You know what I mean? God damn, baby girl.

Yeah, bro, just going through. Some of those psalms get a little horny, bro. It's kind of wild. What's that song? Wait, what was that? It's King David. Yeah, I don't like that, Alessi. Google the psalm about the bosom.

There's some stuff in there. Again, I don't want to- I don't want to get Alessi too excited. Listen. I don't want to over-sexualize the good book. Listen. But you do read some stuff. You're like, all right, this is it.

I got to go to the bathroom real quick. Hopefully no one asks me to stand up and read because I'm going to scare the whole choir here. But yeah, I don't know. Growing up, I was just like, I was really interested. My mom really did a great job because she came at the faith from a very academic, intellectual level. So I was homeschooled up until fifth grade can you tell um now a lot's making sense exactly you were also fucking consummated in paris that also yeah exactly exactly dude i was that's where i started don't ask me i was there stop it don't stop saying that julian you don't know my mom listen Listen, you look like me.

No, that's not. Don't say that. Don't say that. Alessi, don't laugh. Don't laugh. You're my Christian brother. You're my Christian brother. Don't do this.

But yeah, it's, I grew up, like, I don't know. That was like a part of it. My mom would be like, yo, like, you should read, like, the Summa. You know what I mean? Like, get into, like, Thomas Aquinas. Oh, wow. So I grew up very Catholic, and then I went to, like, a presbyterian school in middle school and i would go to school and like we would go through the bible obviously the catholic bible and the evangelical like

protestant bible in the united states has a different number of books and uh there's books that i would read like growing up like with my mom or like analyzing like different verses that my other christian friends at school had no idea about. And did you believe or was it more like a passive, like, I've always known this, this is what it is? No, I mean, a little bit of both. I think when you grow up religious, you do buy in and you're like, yeah, I believe in this. So I certainly believe in God.

You know what I mean? I feel like even just through the intellectual journey of cosmological arguments, contingency arguments, stuff like that, that again, I'm not well- in but uh you know i understand enough to be like all right like if things are either contingent or necessary it goes all the way back in an infinite infinite regression to like the ultimate you know necessary you know thing and that is some type of unmoved mover some type of catalyst that put the universe into motion fine-tuning argument right like we know through like physics like if gravity was slightly more strong the universe could collapse on itself it was slightly weaker atoms wouldn't be able to acquiesce and the world would just be

sort of like this floating you know space and so it's like we're perfectly attuned for life so like you look at things like that i think hitchens called that uh the only presentable argument for for the theist or something to that effect. And so you look at these things and you're like, all right, I believe that there's a God, right? I think there's some type of creator. I think there's some type of like author to all of this. And what that is, is kind of like been my journey. I'm very fond of Catholicism still.

I still go to Catholic mass and like I still, you know. Oh, you do? Yeah, absolutely. And like I'll still like pray to Jesus. And I'm like, that's a part of what makes me feel comfortable, partially because I grew up in that tradition. And, but I also see the value and I celebrate the beauty of all the traditions that have persisted throughout history.

You know what I mean? Like typically, in my opinion, if religion exists for longer than, you know, a thousand years, there's probably elements to it that are really productive for community building for people to like come closer to whatever this sort of divine knowledge is. So a lot of people go and they try to like advocate specifically for their one faith background.

They're like, I'm a Christian and everyone else is wrong. Yep. And I kind of come at a perspective, like I'm a Christian and I'm interested in what all these other cultures have to say about God and like what they know about God. Like perhaps they know things that maybe I missed in school and you know, maybe like the Hindus have an idea about,

you know, the Brahma or like, you know, Muslims and Allah, like maybe they understand something that could be beneficial to me in my spiritual journey. So I try to celebrate all theists and like looking at, you know, what all people have to say about whatever this thing is that, you know, put everything into motion. That's kind of just more or less how I approach it.

But I also, I recognize that there's a faith element to all of it. Like I have a limited certainty to be like, this book is, you know, infallibly written by God. Like I choose to believe that, but I don't have some type of, you know, ledger to be like, no, this is on the blockchain. They minted it on Sol, so it's actually written by Thomas. You know what I mean?

So I don't know. I'm having aversion to certainty anytime someone's like, this is the way things absolutely are, with a few exceptions. And I'm open to other perspectives as much as I can. I think that's a beautiful way to look at it because on the one hand, you still have faith that something greater than us, a higher power exists, which is really important just at a base level. You also happen to buy into and believe aspects of the faith you were raised in and use that for good. And that gives you some peace. But you're open-minded on all the other things that are presented because all these historical texts are written by man which means there is good and bad there's mistakes and there's and there's possibly pieces of truth and it could be interspersed among them like this religion knows a little more about this thing that one

knows a little more about this thing and maybe when you put all those pieces together kind of like the bruce lee quote like this god what is good, take what is – or discard what is bad, take what is good. You can get closer to wherever that truth is. But at the end of the day, like no matter what evidence you collect about the things that we can't know that exist in a higher realm, none of us know until it's over and it goes out. And so you have to live your life even as much as you accrue all this evidence to like, I don't know, be interested in it and try to give yourself some peace. You still have to live your life with the chaotic thought of knowing when it turns out you don't officially know how it's going to go. Yeah, exactly. And again, I'm comforted by the idea of there being a God.

It's something that I am fond of and like almost on a, you know, like giving in to like this Pascalian idea that like it's better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and uh you know be wrong so yeah i just choose to say like yeah i would live my life this way and again i think perhaps if there is no divine creator if there was some type of infinite universe or maybe there's a you know some type of collapse of you know the universe that existed before us that created this universe whatever that is you know i think still the tenants of all these major faiths, which have a ton of overlap, I think still create a really beneficial way to live, right?

Like, treat your neighbors as yourself. I think, like, the story of the Christ as it's portrayed in the Gospels, you know, as a... Even if it's just from a secular perspective, I think that story is one of the most, like, profound stories of humankind. Yeah. Like, it is, like, the ultimate way that people could be, like, sacrificing yourself for the people that you love, constantly giving of yourself, being wise, hanging with the disenfranchised and the impoverished and trying to help them.

I think it's a tenet that exists through all faiths that I think all people could and should be living that way. 100%. It's like I don't like the people who – and it's not a lot of people who do this. Most people I see use their faith for good, which is a really promising thing. But then you get those people – you get the worst people who are like power brokers who use it for power and it's all fake. Sure. We all know what that looks like. That's human history.

But then you get the people who are like, no, you have to believe what I believe because i know and my faith makes me know and therefore like if you don't like you're damned to whatever their religion believes is hell or whatever and i don't like that but on the other hand the people that then maybe rebel against that and then call out a story of like someone like jesus and try to act like fuck that like it's all bullshit and and who gets it's like dude i look at a – we know he's a historical character. We know he did a lot of great things. You can't prove all of it. But, like, I look at a dude like that.

I'm like, seems like a pretty fucking good guy. Seems like someone that, you know, you might want to take some example from. Yeah. You know, there's also – there's this theory I love called the IMU theory. You ever hear of this? I feel like I've heard you talk about this. Maybe. I've talked about it before.

But I've told it on some podcasts. It's this guy, Charlie Rocket, came up with it. So Charlie Rocket was – That's a real name? Yeah, his name's Charlie Jabali, but his name's like Charlie Rocket. I love this. Dude, he was like a fat kid in his mom's basement, self-described, where he lived right atlanta and he was obsessed with hip-hop this little fat white kid and so he built a makeshift studio down there and he would invite

these local acts you know to come through like unknown guys and so one time he invites this dude over he was unknown they hit it off he says i'll be your manager i guess he was like a teenager or something turns out the guy's two chains the rest is history you know charlie makes it and so charlie is kind of became like an inspirational dude and he you know battles his he looks a lot better than he used to but he constantly battles his weight and talks about that publicly and you know goes out and inspires people and things like seems like a really good guy but you know he came up with this theory gave it on the ed mylett show back in 2019 where basically it started with him sitting alone in a room and wondering who the highest grossing superhero of all time was. He's like, who made the most money across comic books, movies, whatever?

And he's thinking it's going to be Batman, Superman, and it turns out it's Spider-Man. He's like, what the fuck? And why is it Spider-Man? And he starts thinking about it. He's like, all right. He didn't have a chiseled chin like the other guys. He wasn't good looking. He was a nerd.

He was from a lower middle class or even lower class household. His parents were dead. His very kind aunt and uncle raised him and he had a weird – he ended up having a weird talent. He's got a hot aunt, I think. Had a hot aunt, but everyone's got that. But also couldn't get the girl, right? Had all these things that are like so relatable to people that made them like an average show. So he's like, all right, what's the biggest religious following around the world?

What's the biggest religion by following? Google's it. Christianity. And that's why he gets to Jesus. And he goes, all right. Walks around in basic robes. He's a carpenter. Respects his parents.

Doesn't have a fuck ton of followers. Walks around with like 12 of them. He's friends with the poor. the sick is humble you know the whole bit if he had been riding around on a white horse with shining armor during his life perhaps he would have been this famous influencer of his time but in reality you know he died for everyone's sins and later was respected for all the things that we just laid out it's like holy shit if this works with jesus if it works with fucking spider-man if it works with a corporation now we're really on to something so he's like who's the most famous

company ever it's apple we all you know we all got the iphone in our pocket he goes who founded apple steve jobs it's like steve jobs was the first guy to say fuck the suit he wore a beard he looked like your dad and in a world where everyone named technology fucking Inspiron 5000 or Windex 45 or whatever the fuck they called it, he named it Lisa, iPod, iPhone. He named it after you, right? And then he looked at sports and goes, who's the biggest megastar of all time? Michael fucking Jordan. He's like, it's not LeBron's fault. It's not Kobe's fault.

But Kobe's the mamba. He's not like you. No disrespect. That's just what he was. He's Superman. Yeah. And LeBron is a genetic specimen kobe's the mamba he's not like you you know no disrespect like that's just what he was he's superman yeah and lebron is a genetic specimen he was the king when he was 14 he was anointed expected to come up and do what he did that's not his fault but michael jordan got cut from his high school basketball team he was the scrawny kid that wasn't big enough he was never gonna be good enough goes to college wins the national title still drafted behind sam bowie can't win the first six years, finally gets it done, wins three straight, dad gets shot and killed, leaves it behind, publicly embarrasses himself

playing baseball because he wasn't good at it, and then comes back and wins three more. There's like a relatability to that story. So like bringing it back to like the Jesus one, because that's the religious figure, there's such a relatability to that guy that whether or not you believe in him, you know, or believe in the story, the example you can get from that is so great, especially when we live in a world that goes completely against the paradigm of the IMU theory. Everyone goes online and they want to worship the things they have or the things that they pretend to have and say, I'm better than you. I'm better than you. I don't – I'm not like you. I'm not like you.

When in reality, all the people in history we most gravitate towards are the ones who say, I'm just like you and you can be too. And that's something to aspire to. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of revealing their imperfections and their vulnerabilities. Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't know, I think that's a great way to look at it. Like through the Christian lens, like I think there's so many lessons you can glean from Christ, right? Like according to Christian theology, he was God, but became man and like lived as a man, lived as us, according to, you know, Christian theology, he was God but became man and, like, lived as a man, lived as us, lived as humankind for humankind. Yeah.

And you read that and you're like, wow, that's, like, admirable. And if you believe in the theological component of it, it's even more admirable that God would sort of render himself to the brutality and grossness of, you know, human nature and the animalisticness of what it means to be human. Like, it really paints a picture, and you can see why so many Christians jump onto it. And it's not only Christianity that has amazing moments.

Oh, yeah. This is why I get frustrated when I hear people go, oh, Islam is a violent religion. I'm like, I know Muslims, and they're some of the most devout, kind people I know. They will truly put the shirt off your back. They're disciplined. They're devout.

You'll meet way more christians that are like yeah you know i like god but like you know i you know bang you know chicks all time and i'm doing drugs and i'm drinking and i'm just you know whatever like it's rare you'll meet like a muslim that's like going to the mosque and meeting with his imam that's like philandering yeah i mean like like he's not cheating on his wife like the muslims i know like again sure there's maybe bad muslim bad Muslims out there on both a superficial level but then obviously on a violent level, of course. But generally speaking, I think of the Muslims in the world, there's millions, millions, maybe approaching billions. Vast majority are good people. Hindus, same way.

Jews, same way. Mormons, bro. I love Mormons. Mormons are happy people. Bro. And again, people look at their faith and they'll be like, this shit is great. Jesus came to America. Yeah, it's crazy.

Black people couldn't go to heaven until the 70s or something. There's some stuff. You get into the details. You're like, all right, there's some. They were working. It's a new religion. Judaism had 10,000 years. They're working out the kinks.

Hinduism had 3,000 years to figure it out. Give them a couple decades. But then you meet Mormon people. They're kind. It's like the religion is a Chick-fil-A. You know what I mean? It's their pleasure. They want to help you.

I've always said I'm raising my kids Mormon, 100%. I might be Mormon, as a matter of fact. I got married young, had kids young. You're giving a good sale. Closeted gay. You know what I mean? I got all of it going for me, dude. You're working on your wife, working on the third wife for you?

Exactly. Dude, inshallah. Inshallah. But dude, it's like it's all right my second wife hasn't been born yet but it's one of those things like the way mormons do it when you're you know right after you turn 18 you go on your mission yeah spend two years go to a different country learn the language you're selling the part of you that is the most vulnerable you're selling your faith you're going door to door, talking to random people in some random country and trying to show them the light that you've been shown through your faith.

And you're getting rejected, turned down, threatened, robbed, whatever you're going through. For two years, you have no real connection back home. You're getting sent money here and there. It's just you and your boy against the world. And then you come back to America. You go to BYU. You know what I mean? Maybe you play a little ball.

You soak a little bit. You know what I mean? You soak it up from here and there. And then you come back to America, you go to BYU, you know what I mean? Maybe you play a little ball. You soak a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you soak it up, you know, from here and there. And then you get out, and the skills you have, you're amazing at sales. You are very competent with other cultures and other people. You speak now another language that might be completely fringe, you know what I mean? Like, I knew a dude, did a Mormon mission for two years, came back, spoke fluent Portuguese. He was in Sao Paulo.

And then comes back, speaks fluent Portuguese, super sharp, college educated, ended up being the head of a multinational corporation liaising shipments between the United States and Brazil and made a grip. I knew another dude who did the same thing with Mandarin. He was living in China doing the same exact thing. It sounds like an intel operation.

Now a lot of these guys become intelligence assets. There's actually a famous case, bro. You might be able to pull this up. This is a hilarious honeypot, dude. Oh, it's a honeypot. Oh, my goodness. He was like a – you can search like fat spy honeypot. Fat spy Mormon?

Yeah, unfortunately. Fat spy Mormon honeypot. Yeah, so he got pulled into an agency. It might have been FBI maybe. And he had access to all this stuff. He was known as the worst spy on the job. Okay. Don't do Mormon because that's not a big part of it.

Just – yeah, yeah, yeah. Fat spy Honeypot? Dude? Oh, what's his name? Oh. Yeah, it's too. Do you want to take a second and find it? Because it's a very funny story.

Yeah, we can kill a second right here. Okay. While we're on camera. Fat spy, honeypot, FBI. Yeah. Guy, male. Not Maria Butina. It wouldn't be her.

Which country? It was in the United States. Maybe search BYU because I know he went to byu byu so we all right so it is a part of the story oh man wait is it in 1985 it might have been go back go back right above that one alessi you see that perfect oh yes yes yes all right fbi official says mormon bias prevent richard miller that's him dick miller dude that's the guy he uh yes we found it so if you look at a picture of this guy he's hilarious and uh i won't get all don't get off that link because we want to be able to get back i won't get all the details perfect but basically he was uh he was basically like getting fired he was

failing at his job he was sleeping in his car his marriage was falling apart his whole life was just like you know in the dumps and then uh like you can see a picture of him right there all right oh yeah he's a real looker yeah so he's struggling he's not doing so good right he gets like fucking newman and yeah and then he's just like chilling one day in this hot woman i'm pretty sure she's russian she comes up to him and she's like hey baby you like me to lick the dick you want a little fuck yeah and he's like yeah i would like that she's like hey baby you like me to lick the dick you want the little fuck yeah and he's like yeah i would like that she's like just give me some secrets and then he gives her a ton of files like leaks a ton of stuff like sensitive intel and uh yeah he got honey trapped pretty bad but uh to see it yeah i mean this is not all mormons okay i don't want to paint mormons in

this light obviously okay just some There's a couple bad eggs. All right, it happens. But yeah, a lot of these Mormon guys, I shouldn't say a lot, some get recruited into intelligence capacity because their ability to sort of acquiesce into these different cultures. Have you seen this show, American Primeval? No, I've heard of it. People like it. Dude, the only reason I never get to watch shows,

I watched it because it was a six-episode miniseries. So I'm like, all right, so I'm not going to get too stuck. I don't have a lot of seasons. This is perfect perfect so one day when i was sick a few weeks ago oh perfect went through it was perfect i went through the whole thing fucking incredible yeah first of all pete berg did an amazing job with that but it's about a part of history i was completely unaware of it's about utah in the 1950s like 1957 or i'm sorry 1850s 1857 there was back you know the western frontier similar like the taylor sheridan stuff like a fucking any man's game out there where the mormons led by brigham young who was the governor of utah yeah were muscling on to a lot of land brigham young was not a good guy. And in the process, you know, they had one in particularly where they massacred a ton of settlers

and tried to blame it on, like, the native tribes. And you just see that, like, this is at the nascent part of that religion. This is at the beginning. Yeah. And it makes you so, you know, down on it because you're like, this is what happens. People like this get what happens people like this get in charge of something and then what the fuck

do you even believe about this because these are the people who are propagating it you know and they're they're out here doing all these things that you know they say brother

and you know we're all about God they're doing everything that's like against whatever God would want you to do they're fucking murking people in the face yeah

it's crazy to think about man yeah those early days were wild they were nuts yeah did you see Killers of the Flower Moon? I haven't seen the movie yet. Yeah.

I read the book. Oh, really? Yeah. Wild, right? Fucking insane. Dudes get some oil, start driving around, getting some servants. Life is good. And then whoosh.

Yeah, or no, wait, wait. Not Killers of the... What was the book? It was the book by S.C. Gwynn. Maybe. What's that called? Can we look? Empire of the Summer Moon. Empire of the Summer... That's the one I read.C. Gwynn maybe what's that called can we look Empire

that's the one I read yeah but isn't it similar to what the movie was I'm assuming I think the movie adaptation I might have got the title wrong no no

you have the title right of the movie was that similar yeah it was an adaptation of the book I'm almost positive yeah yeah but those early days

being in the wild west would have just been crazy yeah Alessi turned me on like a year and a half ago to 1883 and 1923 which their tale is shared so you know the show yellowstone yeah i've never seen that it's too long i i can't deal with that right now but 1883 and and 1923 i think 1920s we're just gonna have another season but they're both like miniseries. And it's just a prequel to Yellowstone.

And it should like the 1883 shows them trying to go across the Oregon Trail, like to get to California and all the shit that we take for granted that they think about. And like, motherfucker, you know, some girl goes out back to take a piss. Rattlesnake bites her in the crotch and she's dead. You know, like shit like this. It's crazy. And it's just like, oh, she's dead you know like shit like this it's crazy and it's just like oh she's dead yeah you know yeah and then in 1923 you think oh we're in the 1900s now nope they're still on horses getting marked out in the woods yeah and you're like this is not that long ago oh dude i mean the the speed of the technology is just so crazy it's it's crazy but also like

america was so untapped for so long and you wonder about what's still here that's still untapped that we don't think about oh dude well going back to the mormons they probably got a little piece of that i'm pretty sure the mormons are the largest landowners like the mormon church is the largest landowners in the united states outside of the federal government can we google that yeah i'm pretty mormons largest landowners in the united states besides federal government yeah it's uh yeah they got a big they got a lot of land. I know they got Bryce Harper. I didn't know they went that big, though. Yeah. Yeah, dude.

They got a big chunk of this whole thing. The Mormon Church owns over 2.3 million acres of private land. Yeah. Okay. According to 2022, LDS is the nation's fifth largest. All right. Yeah, click that. Post regular.

That looks like a real straight shooter. All right, new database shows out... Oh, all right. Okay. From thousands of acres of farmlands to thousands of places of worship and from shiny commercial enclaves and urban centers to flowing fields and... Oh, they got commercial centers. In swelling suburbs, a newly released list shows the Church of Jesus

Christ Latter-day Saints. They want us to say it that way, by the way. Like, Nick Shirley was in here. He's a Mormon. He's like, well, we like to call it Jesus Christ or whatever the fuckday Saints. They want us to say it that way, by the way. Yeah. Like Nick Shirley was in here. He's a Mormon. He's like, well, we like to call it Jesus Christ, whatever the fuck that is. LDS. And I'm like, no. LDS.

You're a Mormon. It's quick. It's quick. Yeah, Mormon's way easier. All right. So it may be no surprise that a growing pioneer church with millions of members and devoted to acquiring land, cultivating crops, erecting temples, and building Zion would today hold vast expenses of property.

Still, the sheer scope of church-held domestic real estate yields mind-stretching numbers, and the findings emerge when many latter-day saints and church observers are already agog at, what a word, at other recently reported multi-billion dollar figures within the face of the world. Who are the top five?

I'm going to guess like McDonald's or Walmart or something. Top five landowners, top five, What is it? Private landowners? Yeah. Top five private landowners in the United States. Can we Google that? Yeah. I'd be so curious, dude. What's your guess?

I'm going to go like Walmart's probably got a little piece. I'm going to say like McDonald's. Bill Gates. Yeah. Yeah. Foundation. All right. All right.

The Emerson family. John Malone, a billionaire with over 2.2 million acres. Ted Turner, the founder of CNN with over 2 million acres. Stan Kroenke, who owns the Rams and Nuggets and other franchises, 1.76 million. Wow. And the Reed family owns 1.66. You live to fight another day, Bill Gates. Dude.

All right. I wonder what Bill Gates owns that we don't know about. It's like through a little secret trust. Yeah, that's my vaccine. They own some water or something. Why is everyone trying to buy water? Hey, don't worry about it. What do y'all know that we don't know?

Why do you need to get all that water? You've had some access to some powerful people, though, sitting there co-hosting Flagrant. Yeah. What was Trump like? I'll be honest, dude. He walked in, and I feel like we got 90s Trump. 90s Trump. 90s Trump.

Like the cool Trump everyone likes. You know what I mean? Remember in the 90s, Trump's in rap songs. I don't remember. I was barely alive. See? The truth comes out. He wasn't banging my mom.

How about that? How about that, Alessi? This was a trap and you've fallen into my web. No, back in the 90s, 2000s, Trump's a cool guy. He's got a TV show. He's firing people with his kids. He's like chilling. He's in rap songs.

He's a celebrity. Everyone loves him, right? He's like, he's known as like this eccentric billionaire, right? And then obviously he gets involved in politics and his reputation sours, as you can imagine. Rather sours and also gets way more ardent. And we got the version of him that was just like cool amicable he came in dapped everyone up said hey to everyone his whole staff everyone that works with him beautiful they're all barbies the men and the woman like just all of them did like he had like a social

media guy tiktok jack aprishers his name the legend just oh yeah yeah handsome kid uh alex brucewitz another guy just handsome they're all just like studs all the women are gorgeous they're all barbies just all around i mean let me say it there was they've worked on i think natch speed it for comfort i think natch did okay yeah and uh yeah they were just they were they were gorgeous um and then he was just like the man he was like nice he was dapping everyone up uh something happened at the very end uh basically he was living uh his kids were living in trump tower i think in like the late part of the 90s early 2000s and uh his kids are there eric and don and i'm pretty sure michael jackson at that point was also living there and that donald and michael jackson become close friends and uh and we were kind of asking him about it and he was like

yeah you know he's a really nice guy he's you know a little troubled he was like trying to figure some stuff, he's a really nice guy. He's, you know, a little troubled. He was like trying to figure some stuff out. And so like we helped him out. We gave him, you know, an apartment and we just want to be good to him. And, you know, he was just, he was a sweet guy. And I think, you know, the whole Pepsi commercial thing like really affected his self-esteem. What was the Pepsi commercial thing? This is what's so funny is that he goes, yeah, the Pepsi commercial thing kind of affected his self-esteem and just kind of you know just you know really affected his self-image

and all the guys were all standing around we're like everyone's like wait what's the Pepsi commercial and I kind of nod my head because I know the story and he looks at me and goes Mark do you know the story I go yes I do you know this day literally and I I go yes and he goes I have to leave right now i have a very important meeting with some heads of state i gotta go but mark i need you to tell them the story and he vanished got swept away secret service takes him off and i was like i was just given presidential orders the time i wasn't the president yet but president electoral orders to to spread the word of michael jackson this is crazy i need to know the story now i don't know the fucking story i

was lying i was i was bluffing i mean i know the story when the president's telling you do you know the story say sir yes sir whatever you need i know i don't know the story the guy i was that guy's way what's the story i was like dude he's addicted to the pepsi he's chugging i don't know the story. The guy was like, what's the story? I was like, dude, he's addicted. Let me get Google. Yeah, he's addicted to Pepsi. He was chugging. I don't know. He got diabetes. I think he died of diabetes. No, the Pepsi commercial, basically, he was doing a Pepsi commercial.

I don't know. Comedy magic. He was doing this Pepsi commercial, and there was a pyrotechnic thing that happened, and he got burned pretty bad. His hair catches on fire. He doesn't know he's on fire. And people are putting it out, da-da-da.

He ends up getting like third degree severe burns like down like his neck and back area. His hair never really regrows properly. And from that day, you know, this is a guy that was famous since he was a child. And obviously self-image is, you know, really important to him. There's a video here.

And- Michael Jackson. And his hair catches on fire he's dancing doesn't know it i have seen this and it's on fire for a long period of time and he all of a sudden starts to feel the heat and people run around and they start spraying they cover him up the most famous man in the entire universe an icon across countries uh is now burning and they put him out and he suffers severe burns and deals with it for the rest of his life a lot of people suspect that this it kind of what exacerbated his extreme body modification kind of like some of the skin bleaching and stuff the nose jobs plastic surgery

etc and uh it was that moment that was really kind of a turning point his career that affected how people saw him how he saw himself especially as a performer and an entertainer your look is so important and he had such, your look is so important. And he had such an iconic look that now was tarnished for the rest of history. Crazy. I'm sharing that with you because the president forced me to say it. I don't even want to say this. I don't even want to talk about this.

It's personal for me. But this is my civic duty. His cases, too, are very interesting, too, because obviously he's accused of like the worst kinds of things we already talked about earlier it's like it makes you sick some of it you know and it gets dangerous because there's there's public accusers people who put their name behind it too and i don't want to like you know there's always a great fear with me with like discounting people who have come forward to say a horrible –

The stories of survivors, specifically children, are the most vulnerable. They're the people that society needs to protect. Right. But also we've heard Thriller. So it's like what really – Listen, I've always said, listen, I love the song I Believe I Can Fly. I do still listen to it. We were bumping Kanye when we walked through the door today.

It's good music. Love the music. Not the man. That's just where we're at. But in all seriousness, there's some stuff about his case that feels forced and feels off. The fact that they're still litigating it years later, which I'm not saying don't litigate.

It's a very serious thing, but some of it feels like, I don't know. I can't really explain it. Like maybe that's not really what it was. Maybe this was a man who was so taken advantage of by so many people. Because also, actually, maybe in defense of the case being real, he was someone who was abused when he was a kid, which often happens that then they abuse people when they get older, which, you know, could say maybe it is true.

But it feels like, you know, he was not supposed to be with us anymore at some point. I don't know how else to explain that. Like Jesus. Is that what you're saying? He's like the Jesus of our time. Like he died for our sins or something? No, you just see how these guys talk about him too. Like even a guy like Trump who's living in a time where that is a main topic and something that he's also supposedly fighting

for, right? Like fighting for, you know, people are like, Trump's all about the kids and stuff like that, which I hope he is. I hope all politicians are about that. But when he talks about Michael Jackson, he talks about him positively. And he like, and he talks about him in like a wistful way. Like I saw him one time talking about he lost his confidence. It's just like, it's a terrible thing. He lost his confidence and he lost himself. And it's like, what do you mean he lost himself? You know, are you taking that all the way there?

Yeah. Or is it below that? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think people do that in general though, right? Like people hate ideas, but then they love people. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you hate like, you know, people will hate the military,

but then they love, you know, their brother-in-law or something. That's right. You know, they love their friend that's, you know, in the Army. Or, like, you know, people hate cops, but then they like the bartender that, you know, is a deputy or whatever. Right. Like, people just, like, kind of make... Cognitive distance.

Yeah, they make caveats when you know, like, the full scope of someone. And if things have been, obviously, litigated and contested and you know the person on a personal basis then i can see why people would be like yeah that's right because you actually can put a name with the face and a mind with the face and things like that you can humanize it whereas when it's not something that's in your backyard that you can't see you just make a judgment far away yeah parents have kids that commit you know atrocities and they still love their kids but hate what they did. Yeah, I think it creates a complicated relationship that we have. And that's why people are always like, you know. It's actually, I've heard an interesting argument. We always hear like separate the art from the artist. And people are like, ah, you shouldn't do that, da-da-da.

But all the time we separate the science from the scientist. Yes. You know what I mean? Like there are plenty of scientists that have done terrible things that have led, you know, horrible private lives but have given us some of the most pivotal and important inventions and discoveries of our time. And we still use their science. We still use the things that they created. But yet we don't hold the same standard for artists. And sometimes artists will live terrible lives. But then we have a hard time accepting their art.

And I think that obviously the art has a much more personal nature whereas science is a little bit more disconnected. Like you just discover something about the universe whereas art might be a reflection of you. But yeah, I don't know. I kind of have a personal line, I guess, where I'm just like, if the art is not necessarily celebrating the terrible things that they've done, then depending how much I like it, I might still bump it. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, 100%. Like I'll listen to, you know, I'll listen to Runaway. I'll listen to some Kanye. You know what I mean? If he came out with the, you know i'll listen to run away i'll listen i'll listen to some you know i mean if he came out with the you know anti-semitic

song probably not gonna bump that one you know what i mean like if all of the lights but instead it's the k word you know like i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't listen to that you know i mean that's probably like whoa all right that's across the line of me okay you crossed your line but uh yeah i don't know. It's a tricky thing that people got to deal with. You separate. I mean, I do it with comedy, right? Like there's comedians that have done bad things,

but then you listen to himself by Bill Cosby and you're like, this guy's good. Yeah, he's amazing. And the more you're committed to the art and how it made you feel in that time prior to the allegations and how it spoke to you and looking at it sort of ontologically just as a thing in and of itself. Yeah, people it all the time is it right or wrong i think it's

people i think it's a personal decision people got to make for themselves i agree and i think you know but kanye i never want to make write things away with with full excuses and stuff like that obviously like the he's saying is both crazy and like sad it's just like it's like going out sad at this point but i do think something's off there i i i think there and i don't know if it's completely self-induced by him that's what i tend to think but you know it could be something else because like even the way like apparently he's divorcing his wife now or she's divorcing him. But the way he would gallivant her around over the last couple of years, I mean it's dehumanizing. It doesn't even begin to describe it.

And I look at it and I go, this guy is not well at all. And yet there's a lot of people who seem to be enabling that. I mean you heard this whole story with the guy that was giving him nitrous or whatever. The dentist. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah, I don't know what the status of that is, to be honest. Do you see a Super Bowl commercial? Yeah, yeah.

He was on it in the dentist chair. Oh, really? Yeah, I mean, he's drugged out, and he's in the dentist chair. He's like, I'm at the dentist's office at Yeezy.com. It's like, oh, my God. Like, maybe Milo Yiannopoulos wasn't lying about this. Like, he's high as shit on fucking something. But he's also got nice teeth, so it's like maybe it's working.

You know what I mean? He's got nice teeth. If you look at his teeth, he's got perfect teeth, dude. I mean, I don't know how much fluoride's in his water. RFK, let him keep it, okay? He needs all that fluoride, dude. we can leave all the fluoride just for because he needs it yeah dude i don't know that fluoride stuff is so funny because people are like we gotta take it out you know i mean yeah we just had your boy jake tranton here talking

about the floor i was scaring the shit out of us yeah dude the fluoride stuff as well i got the reverse osmosis in my crib like Like, I'm pulling out all this stuff. But at the same time... Unless he was building a fucking bunker by the end of that one. Bro, I heard a dude that was like, yeah, but you know, like in France, they don't have fluoride. They don't have fluoride in the water. That's what someone told me.

I don't know if it's true or not. This is what I was told. That's why the fucking baguettes are so good. That's why their teeth are so bad. You know what I mean? That's what... You know what I mean? What are you going to deal with? Good and the bad. That's what I'm saying. And are so good. That's why their teeth are so bad. You know what I mean? That's what, so that's a good, you know what I mean? What are you going to deal with?

Good and bad. That's what I'm saying. And maybe it's the no fluoride. Maybe it's, they don't have dentists in France because they're on strike. You know what I mean? Like you never, like, it's hard to say really. So these things are nuanced.

You know what I mean? It's hard to tell. But yeah, I don't know. I'm curious about, about RFK taking all the red dye. I really like Bobby to be honest with you. What do you mean the red dye? Like he's like passing all these stuff, like all the things with the maha like Bobby, to be honest. What do you mean, the red dye? Like, he's, like, passing all these stuff, like, all the things with the...

Oh, taking it away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's exciting. I like that. I feel like now that it's going away, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I want to try it. I want to try it first.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, I'm like... Get high on red dye. Like, I'm trying to get... Like, how do you buy just red dye? You know what I mean? I'm sure there's a website for that. I want just, like...

Make it made possible. Yeah, for, like, Russell Breck is free. Let me go on Silk Road. I'm buying, you know, i mean like i'm sure there's a website for that i want just like a possible yeah for like russell breck is freed let me go on silk road i'm buying you know black market red die he's got it up and running i just want to i just want to mainline it i just want to see what all the fuss is about you know i mean everyone's talking about let me just try it out you know i mean it's all in trace amounts in our m&ms i want the full thing well you met that guy too when he was he was on your guy's show yeah when he was running or you know not even necessarily on camera but off camera what what'd you think do you think like and this relates to trump too it relates to any of the political guys you have and do you think there's like a facade that goes up because they're regardless of what their affiliations are they're all like

politicians and they got to do the thing or did you see something else there did you get a chance to see something else there yeah i mean i a chance to see something else there? Yeah. I mean, I generally have a distrust of politicians, generally speaking. That's a good way to be, Mark. They have a sort of obligation to lie or misinterpret things for the benefit of their public perception. So it's difficult to have a serious conversation with a politician because they're going to tell you what they're supposed to say. That's um but with bobby i thought he was really nice i thought he was like very friendly with all of us like you can kind of tell like how uh nice a guest is based off of like if they introduce themselves to like the producers and the sound guys and people behind the scenes like remembering names stuff like that like that goes a long way obviously politicians

are going to do this but uh i don't know bobby felt you know he had like a real charisma to him and it's sad what happened to his voice, obviously, which I think really impedes his ability to like communicate in a powerful way like he used to. But, you know, he's still very friendly and like, you know, seemed like a really sweet guy. And I tend to, you know, kind of trust

more or less what he's saying. Like, you know, I think, yeah, I think he goes out there and I think he has good intentions. What are the downriver consequences of some of the stuff? Like, could there be adverse effects? I think it's possible, but I do think he wants to help. So, I'm curious.

Again, it's not perfect either. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it's just like you said earlier. Guys don't have to be right about everything. There's pieces that they can be right about or they can be leading you down a path that's important to go down and then you know you figure it out from there yeah so i don't know i try not to get caught up in like the is this person good or bad right like

we judge so often other people by their actions and we judge ourselves by our intentions you know what i mean so we're like i'm good because i try to be good but that person's bad because they said three things that i don't like but i don't know i you hear him and you're like all right there's some stuff that he says that I think is completely right. And there's other stuff that you're like, oh, maybe, I don't know, let's check the research. But generally speaking, I do think he's a nice guy. And when he met us and came on the show, he was very friendly and very affable and kind. And yeah, I mean, all these guys really are, generally speaking, whenever people come to the Flagrant Studio, like, they're very sweet and excited to chat.

Well, you guys are all so huge and they're happy to be there. You know, it's a good opportunity for all of them. And that's the crazy thing. Like, I don't know what the conversations are like behind the scenes with you guys, but you guys are one of the biggest shows in the world. And in the last cycle, like not even just through Trump himself, but through guys like RFK and some of the big personalities you have coming in there, even like a Dave Smith who are talking about things that are relevant towards the campaign. Like, did you guys think

about or have discussions about, you know, the impact this was having? Because to be clear, your guy's show is fun. You're comedians. It's like a good chill bro laugh fest. It's not, I don't even look at it as a podcast, even though it is. It's like a, it's like's like the modern day arsenio hall you know like you guys all play off each other well and you're there to have a good time and fuck around and like make light of things and you may still be doing that with these people which i thought you did a really good job with trump on because like it was free flowing and and like fun but there's still you know there's like a you're you're in the play you know what you know what i mean did you guys talk about that ahead of all this or was it just kind of happened naturally not prior to like it

wasn't you know some type of calculated effort but uh yeah like i think a couple things to what you said like yeah the show the format is so great for really disarming people i mean schultz just you know on a personal basis just says he does such a good job of disarming people and like really making people feel comfortable like that's just his his essence like you know like even on stage when he's doing crowd work like one of the reasons why he's so good at crowd work is because he's really empathetic and great at talking to people and uh like really seeing people for who they are and like getting them to you know be comfortable and obviously it's great for the pod and great for comedy and uh so people come in with like a real you know they kind can be themselves. And like the truth will come out when you're hanging

with someone for three hours. Like you can't fake the funk for, you know, like a whole pod. You can do it in little sound bites on a news thing. Da da da. But I mean, we at like, we were interested in like the fact that you have politicians and presidential candidates that are doing podcasts

is monumental. And the fact that like, you know, Trump is going on Rogan and having a long, unfiltered conversation just two guys talking about stuff I think is like fundamental to American discourse.

I think it's amazing. And I think Kamala absolutely should have done the same thing. Yes. And we invited Kamala to come on our show. We were like,

you know, we would love to speak with the vice president and, you know, discuss her plan for the country. Like, we would have given her

the same exact shake we would have given Trump. Did that get anywhere? I think we had gotten in touch with her people and then, you know, things didn't line up. I don't know. I don't even know what the official – It seemed like a lot of things didn't line up with her. That's what I'm saying.

Like she had this opportunity to go on Rogan and Joe has come out on his show to say like, yeah, I like had all these avenues. I had times. We had opportunities booked out and, you know, they seemed a little resistant, maybe hesitant, perhaps scared. Yeah. And I think it was really to the detriment of her campaign and i think the future of discourse is a return to stuff like this it's long-form conversations to really flesh out ideas like i almost even look at books as like a deviation in the course of like you know human knowledge a deviation in the course of human like throughout the course of human history things were passed on orally right like people for hundreds of thousands of years would gather together and share information that was vital for the success of the group, whether it's an agrarian society and how to like plant crops and how to like cultivate a society or all the way back to hunter gatherers.

Like what can we eat? What's available? Where are the animals going? How do we follow them? Like information passed on verbally was essential. And then books became a way to preserve that right like going from you know cuneiform to petroglyphs to hieroglyphs like this is a way to preserve information for future generations because we didn't have any other way to preserve it and then now that we have some type of you know audio video discourse through podcasting or tv or even film you can preserve

things digitally and actually get the essence of what the person is saying right like so long as you know the polls don't shift and there's a massive flood that resets all of humanity. Cloud goes away. Yeah, or something, right? Like as long as Apophis doesn't land on us in five years. YouTube servers died, sorry. Yeah, right? Like something like that. You can actually hear the words. Like I would have loved to have heard, you know, Ben Franklin on a podcast discussing, you know, like what his perspective on political science was. I would love to hear washington discuss his plan for america like how amazing would that be to have that and obviously we have written record and a lot of them but how great would have been to hear the person themselves like ask questions in a dialogue and be sort of interrupted like even if you look at

early scientific texts even going back to antiquity they're all written in dialogues right and that is to serve a functional purpose of like, you know, the person that possesses the information, whether it's like, you know, Plato, obviously written by, you know, his students is saying, you know, this, and then the interlocutor, the person he's talking to has a rebuttal, and then he responds, and rebuttal, and response, and they existed

as an early version of a podcast. Like, it sounds kind of dumb. Like, I don't want to bloviate and sort of like wax poetic on podcasting. No, this is interesting. Keep going. But I do see it as the best way for human beings to communicate information and letting the people sort of decide for themselves in a long form, unfiltered format, what they actually believe

about a said topic. I think you're a thousand percent right. And I don't just say that because I'm biased in the space myself as well. I say that because I think it was actually there all along and we just didn't see the pattern. You know, when you look at radio, the rise of talk radio, which happened 40, 50 years ago, you know, these guys, yes, there were commercial breaks. Yes, there were segments, but you'd have guys, whether it be something fun like sports or all the way up to politics itself, you know, you'd have guys that would do these shows for you know afternoon drives three to five hours and they're bringing on different guests maybe it's not all continuous but you're getting you're passively going maybe you know your job is on the road or you're at the

desk and you turn the radio on you're passively going about things and forming a relationship with the person talking to you and learning through the people that they bring into that studio and now all we've done with podcasting is and learning through the people that they bring into that studio. And now all we've done with podcasting is taken that onto the internet and allowed it to be uninterrupted except ads that are built in like stop ads, like AdSense or like a quick brand deal or something like that. But the conversation, it happened all in one shot. Maybe it just wasn't live. Yeah, absolutely.

It happened right before. Kind of cool. I think it's awesome and i think it's the should be at least that's i would like to see that be the case in like the future of american political discourse that people can have these conversations in long form with a well-meaning good faith actor that's able to ask deep probing questions like i don't uh necessarily want to see like political candidates like spar with someone necessarily and have to get like dunked on i I would like to see a curious, open-minded person like asking honest questions and digging deeper into policy and trying to like get to know the person as, you know, the man or woman, but also get to know their policy on a deep level for the average person to consume.

I think it was a misstep for Kamala to do that. And I hope the Democrats in future elections are much more open to the format for getting their message out to the people. Because I don't think the Democrats are lost in terms of, you know, like what the messaging, I guess, let me take that back. I think the Democrats are lost in what the messaging really is. But I think individual Democrat leaders can probably share what their philosophy is for the country in a coherent way if they're given the format and not be afraid of, you know, like saying the wrong thing or oops, what if I laugh at the problem? What if I laugh at a gay joke? It's like, Hey, you can laugh at a gay joke. It's fine. Okay. But also tell us what your plan is for America. How can we help people not get screwed over by corporations? Like, like share what that, that could be.

And I'm also really disenfranchised with like the debate culture that kind of exists. Like, uh, I don't really find debates to be, uh, remarkably fruitful, obviously in certain cases, I think there can be a lot of benefit. But generally speaking, like a lot of the way that it's sort of kind of set up in certain factions of the internet is it's just like the winner is the person that can debate better, not necessarily the person with the better point of view. And yeah, so I hear these debates. I'm like, you know, it just sort of satisfies the person that's like winning.

And they happen so fast. It's like drinking from a fire hose. Yeah. And it doesn't necessarily just promote the ideas sort of, you know, on their own for the people to dissect. So I think the debates can be fun and they can be interesting. But when it comes to like political discourse, I would love to hear people just probe and go deeper. And maybe there's a space for debates as well. But yeah, I don't know.

I think the podcast format is great for that. And I wish more Democrat politicians had come on our show. Because I will tell you, in the days after the election when I saw some of these guys, these Democratic strategists going on media networks and saying, we need to invest in our own network like the Republicans invested in Joe – I'm like, bro, you guys have missed the whole point. There was no investment in this. Guys like Joe Rogan were hardcore liberals in fact. The whole reason it works and guys like that can rise up is because it's not about the superstardom and a bunch of powerful people in suits throwing money behind it. It's because someone genuinely connects with other people. That's what made Joe so great. That's what makes what you guys do at Flagrant so great. That's what makes Camp Gagnon so great. Like people connect with you as a person not because people threw a lot of money behind it.

Yeah. And like you also point out the saying the wrong thing crowd it's like we got to get rid of that you know the democratic party for some reason align themselves with just a few core things that are so simple to like get rid of in in theory but that they've ingrained into who they are if you want to start with like the woke culture and stuff like that if they could just stop that and talk like a normal fucking person to people again they might they they pick some more people up but like we are in the midst of this crazy cultural shift where people are sick of that and they and and and a

lot of majorities even the people don't admit it out loud they don't want that anymore they just want to be able to put food on their table and have some hope for the future and not being fucking endless wars around the world and not have the border be completely open and you know not have humanitarian crisis is crises happening because of that and in the middle of it you know independent media obviously has played a role here and it's a it's it's only growing and it's it's a really important time and it's a great responsibility and the one thing i hope to see i understand society moves in pendulums i i fully get that that is how it is. We see where the pendulum is right now.

But like, I hope moving forward, we are able to maintain our independence and not eventually make some of the same mistakes that mainstream media made where, you know, you end up cozying up to certain ideas and certain power figures. And you start seeing things only in that respect, which I'm not saying that's happening right now. I'm saying we got to be careful because we have seen such fuck ups happen over the past four years that naturally the anger can drive you into the arms of, you know, something you might've not thought about a few years ago. Yeah, absolutely. And I think audience capture is also a real thing, right?

Audience capture? Like the idea of like a creator or an influencer uh promoting an idea and then the audience responds really well to it or they're able to aggregate a specific subset of an audience that then dictates what the content is and it might not be genuine like i think this happens a lot like uh you'll see people on instagram that like throw out a bunch of different types of content and then you know some you know political ideology or maybe like some some group will really attach to it and they'll be like more of this more of this and they'll be like i don't really that's not really how i feel i don't want to go that far and then pull the mic just toward your mic there you go

and then they'll do other content and it won't do as well yep and then they'll be like all right i'll go back to this that's and then the audience and the algorithm can kind of dictate sort of the content that they're making i think it's important for creators to stay true and authentic to themselves to say, like, no, no, this is what I believe, and I'm not gonna just, like, grift right or left. I'm gonna try to be as honest as I can and not give in to the financial incentive to, you know, upend my entire, you know,

point of view to, you know, capitulate to this audience I've aggregated. And I think, like, authenticity and, you know, being genuine is gonna win out, as we've seen with all the examples we've already said. Like, those are the people that'll win in the long term. 100%. Would you have political candidates on your show? And I think like authenticity and being genuine is going to win out as we've seen with all the examples we've already said. Those are the people that will win in the long term. 100%. Would you have political candidates on your show?

I've always had a rule that I will not. It's easy. It's very easy to say things like though, if I were blank, then I would blank. And you don't know until you got to that situation. I think about that a lot and I try to stay humble in the face of that. I think Joe did an awesome job with Trump and I think you guys did an awesome job. A lot of shows did a great job with him. And obviously it turned out where Kamala

and her people were saying no. My thought has always been, like obviously there was a lot of effort there to get her in and it was really her fault it didn't happen. My fault has always been, or my thought has always been, I would really want to make sure I had both because I personally am so disenfranchised with politics as a whole and the human fallacies that occur within it that I am not comfortable with affecting an election, even if it was completely unintentional in me doing it if that were going to happen it better happen where every where both people had their say with me and i could put up my hands and say look if it fell that way it fell that way you know but again we i was just

talking about this with lou ferrante off camera the other day because he's like so would you would you have trump in it i'm like i guess you don't really know until you got that call yeah right it would be a lot better i'm like if he's a sitting president and it wasn't during like the midterms that are coming up where like he's campaigning or something and he and he has to come on i probably fucking sitting right i probably fucking do that yeah but maybe for his third term you'll do that yeah he'll be like all right come coming maybe but you know it's like it's it's it's it's a tough dance i've just always i've always turned it down i've not that i've had fucking president's offer that has not happened but i have had other people offer that you know i have some prominence or people were connected to this person and i've said no i would make an exception for the greatest

governor of all time gavin newsom he's my my favorite ever. Just that one would probably make me, unless he would definitely make an exception for that one too. But that's obviously a joke, everyone. But you saw the way he was shaking Trump's hand when he landed. Oh, dude. Yeah.

Putting his finger on him. I was like, oh, this is kind of fire, dude. I like seeing the dudes duke it out. I was like, all right, this is kind of cool. The most shameless guy I've ever seen in my life. But, you know, it's tough to say you're in those shoes. And, like, you guys obviously got into those shoes and did a nice job,

and you did your best to get the other person in. And she does deserve, and her people deserve blame for not making that happen with you, not making that happen with Joe, these other big shows. I personally, for one, think it would have been hilarious to watch Kamala Harris with Sean Ryan. That shit would have been the funniest thing ever.

Think she should have done that one, too. What if they became best friends? What if he was like, you like guns? She's like, I love guns. And Sean would just be like, he would explode. They just talk about guns for a while.

What you got? What's your collection? I got a Glock back there. That was the best thing she said. I really loved what she said. She was like, bro, I'm strapped. You coming to my spot?

You're getting blasted. I was like, more that's fire that's the real you i'm like could you imagine this six months ago that's where i have some hope i'm like yo they tried to move like a little bit in the last three months there i'm like more yeah we want we want the you like most people don't have time to look into policy like i said before they're raising their kids they got a family they did like most people i genuinely think i don't have data to look into policy. Like I said before, they're raising their kids. They got a family. Most people, I genuinely think, I don't have data on this, I just think they vote off vibes. They just vote off like, what's this vibe I'm getting? Wallet and

vibes, those two. Say again? Wallets and vibes. Yeah, for sure. And I think the vibes are probably connected to the wall. It's like, what vibe is going to save me the most money here? And I think they just kind of were like, yeah, who's cool? And the more you can put your vibes out there, as dumb of a word as that is, the more people can jump on and be like, oh, I like this. Like, Bernie had a cool vibe.

He did. Bernie would come out. It seemed like he really wanted to help people. We're going to help everyone get rid of the billionaires. Yeah, you hear that. You're like, oh, this guy's cool. I like this. He's a gangster.

Yeah, you like the vibe. So, I don't know. I think. Killer Mike was like, I fuck with you. Yeah. Yeah, and, like, you see that with all the guests, not even political ones, like just the vibes. Like we were talking before off air about 50 Cent and- Oh, that was so cool.

You guys had him in. Bro, the coolest guy. I mean, he was awesome. I stole my brother's G unit hat when I was a kid and he had like a fitted G unit cap and I was like, oh, this is fire. And I thought the G stand was silver Gagnon. I was like, this is fire and i mean i thought the g stand was silver gagnon i thought that was i was like this is sick and uh yeah like just he was sitting there and he was so cool just talking to everyone knew everyone's names like eye contact just a businessman and he was he was the best

smart guy too oh sharp as hell dude he's dialed in he is a proper like business mind you know i mean like he's a entrepreneur that happened to start rapping you know what I mean like he just whatever he was gonna do god damn was he good holy shit was he good bro and he performed at MSG dude

so when Schultz did MSG he sold it out twice the first show 50 came out and performed at the end of the show yeah for like 10 minutes and like the hits

like he went through them bro and like you don't even realize 50's catalog until he's like just putting them they're timeless bro they're timeless banger banger banger like this will shut down any party he's got 10 of them he made dude he made when you listen to the sounds he

created he's one of those guys you know he made he made timeless stuff yeah and raw yeah so real you can bump any song from get rich or die trying today. And it sounds like it was made yesterday. Yeah, dude, it was awesome. I would say my, my, one of my favorite episodes of flagrant that,

uh, people don't even really like know is, uh, Jason Williams. Oh, I actually watched some of that one. I love Jason Williams. White chocolate.

Yeah. He's fucking great, bro. He started, he is so funny, like cop, like comedian funny. Like he's like,

he's got got a set. He was telling us stories about playing ball in China. He's going to India. And the people... He is so funny. And he started doing magic at the end of the show. Like showing us magic tricks. Alex Media was losing his mind. He was like, oh shit. Some people are just built different.

Bro, it was awesome. And he was lobbing balls to fucking Randy Moss. How crazy is that, dude? I remember that from a kid. When I was abing balls to fucking Randy Moss in high school. How crazy is that, dude? Fuck it. I remember that from a kid, when I was a kid, like how the two of them were friends. I'm like, holy shit. Like, what are the chances? Yeah, bro.

Bell, West Virginia, I'm pretty sure. He's just the all-time legend. Like, those are like some of my favorite ones from Flay, where I look back on that. I'm like, oh, dude, I love this guy. Yeah. I'm pretty sure he also lives in Orlando. That's my dream. I want to go golf with him.

You want to go golf with Jason Williams in Orlando? Yeah, when I go back home, dude, I'm like, dude. Watch the Gators. Yo, for real. Bro, that shit is sketchy. They'll get you. Bro, dude, my family in Florida is so wild. Dude, you got to come down to Florida with me, dude.

It is wild. Bro, I got family members. How many Gagnons are there? My parents had seven kids. Jesus Christ. Yeah, dude, we got a whole. What are you, number six? Six or seven.

Yeah, I got one younger sister. And everyone's got kids. We got like 16 nieces and nephews. Oh, my God. Everyone spans the political aisle. The family group chat's going crazy on fire at all times. We're getting Trump memes. We're getting...

It's just going wild. Isn't your mom like a Bilderberg person? Oh, yeah. She's a big conspiracy theorist. She loves conspiracies. She's like, Mark, learn about this. Bro, I was homeschooled by a conspiracy theorist. How crazy is that?

I'm going through fifth grade doing math. She's like, all right, this lesson, we're doing 9-11. I was like, all right, all right, let's get into it. Nothing hit Building 7. That's crazy. OK. What else did we learn? Math doesn't matter.

The only math you need to know is that $2.1 billion got vanished from the Pentagon. What? Trillion. Yeah, trillion. I was like, this is crazy. It's crazy having a conspiracy mom because she would do like mom stuff with us but also conspiracy stuff like she was still a great mom so like she would like teach us about like santa like she'd be like santa's real santa's building seven was not yeah but 9-11 was not

like and now as an adult, I know they're both. God, that explains so much. Yeah, I know as an adult, they're both inside jobs. I get that. But when I was like, I mean, Santa is an inside job. That's the ultimate conspiracy. Kids become conspirators because of Santa. I fully believe this, bro.

Because what is Santa? You got the Santa theory. What is Santa, right? What is that? It's like, okay, there's a guy that's judging your moral character, if you good or not and if you're good you're going to get presents what does he do he flies around the world sneaks into your house gives you presents make sense you ask your parents where these presents come from santa gave them to you ask your teacher where these presents come from santa gave you see an old lady at the supermarket she pinches her cheeks be good for

santa everyone's in on this big grand conspiracy to get kids to behave that's right and then you ask about, oh, what happened to this thing? What happened to this thing? People are always like, oh, you couldn't get the whole world in on some conspiracy. If 9-11 was da-da-da,

people would know about it. I'm not following. People all the time will say like, oh, conspiracies aren't real because how could everyone keep a secret? How could all these companies, all these corporations, all these people involved,

how could they all keep a secret? But there's no stakes to Santa. If some kid finds out that it's FedEx you know who the fuck cares until you get some trash presents

and your neighbor gets great presents you're like that kid's Jewish he's not even Christian how did he get an Xbox how is this possible dreidel dreidel dreidel

what the hell dude Santa doesn't go to his house bro like it's crazy so yeah Santa's a wild one but yeah dude my mom was big on like conspiracy growing up.

My family's hilarious. I got a sister that won't even vaccinate her dog. Her dog? Yeah. That's some commitment. That's like how, that's like, they're on the RFK vibe. Like, yo, we're not vaccinating our dog. I was like, dogs can't get autism.

You let them near the Wi-Fi? Yeah, dude, it was like, what does a dog with autism even do? You know what I mean? You go in the kennel, he's like stacking all his bones up. You're like, whoa. He's stacking all his dog toys up by color. My dog's tizzed out. What's even going on?

This is insane. Right? Oh, my God. I think dogs are already autistic. I don't think you can give them autism. Yeah, they're so happy. They're so happy. Dogs are fully tizzed out. They're happy are already autistic. I don't think you can give them autism. Yeah, they're so happy. They're so happy. Dogs are fully tizzed out.

Happy as a clam. What is it? Look at my dog when fireworks go off. He's like, oh, it's too loud. Sensory issues. That's right. That's autism. That's spectrum.

That's what I'm saying. Dogs are already autistic. You can vaccinate them. No fault. That's what it is. It's all good. That's what I'm saying, dude. A little more tizzing never hurts.

Right, dude. Vaccinate the dogs. It's fine. They're already nonverbal. Yeah, exactly, bro. What's it? Dude, a delayed dog is better. Oh, my dog's 15 years old.

He just likes to snuggle. It's crazy, bro. I don't know. Mark, I could talk for another three hours with you, but I got to drive down to Philadelphia to go to war tomorrow. It's late at night, and I fully intend on doing that. And if I never see you again, it's been nice knowing you. Absolutely. Absolutely.

I love your show, Camp Gagnon. We'll have the link down in the description. Thank you, bro. It's always fun talking with you. You got some great chemistry with anyone you talk with. So I highly recommend everyone check it out. And we definitely gotta do this more often, brother. Thank you so much, Alessi. Thank you, bro.

Julian, I appreciate this. This is fun. Let's do it again. Cool. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also, if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory Podcast, or also on my personal page at Julian D. Dory. Both links are in the description below. Finally, if you'd like to catch up on our latest episodes, use the Julian Dory Podcast playlist link in the description below. Thank you.