Julian Dorey Podcast - #285 - REDMAN on Big Pharma’s New Scam, MC Hammer Beef & 2Pac

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

SPONSORS: 1) VERSO: Get 15% off “Morning Being” using Code “JULIAN” at checkout: https://morning.ver.so/julian  2) Download PRIZEPICKS & use Code "JULIAN" to get $50 w/ your first $5 play: https://shorturl.at/2XCLm  (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Redman is a legendary American rapper, DJ, record producer, and actor. He rose to fame in the early 1990s as an artist on the Def Jam label and is also known for his many collaborations with Method Man. PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey   REDMAN’S LINKS: NEW ALBUM (SPOTIFY): https://open.spotify.com/album/5aahGTQnyEzNwR8Wy2lEpi NEW ALBUM (APPLE): https://music.apple.com/us/album/muddy-waters-too/1786454970  REDMAN POLITICAL PARTY WEBSITE: https://unitedempowermentparty.org/  FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY: INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/    INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/    X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey    ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 1:43 - Micro-Plastics, How Redman became an MC, NY vs. NJ hip hop beef 8:30 - Modern music industry (internet) vs 80s / 90s 11:42 - Rappers who inspired Redman, EPMD discovery story, Selling dope 24:51 - Why Redman’s friends didn’t blow up, Moving in w/ EPMD 28:25 - Signing w/ Def Jam, Lyor Cohen, Redman & Warren G save Def Jam 35:53 - Promoting Albums in 90’s 38:22 - Red’s family’s thoughts on his success, Mom’s turntable story 42:55 - Redman’s kids 47:54 - How DJing influenced Red’s rap style, Modern Day DJs vs 90’s, 2 Friends & EDM 57:05 - What Happened to Sound Cloud, Redman playing instruments 58:59 - Work Ethic Mentality, Getting fired & hating jobs 1:03:25 - Redman’s creative process & daily routine w/ EPMD, How they made records 1:11:24 - Meeting Method Man 1:13:03 - East Coast vs West Coast Beef 1:15:44 - Red’s record w/ 2Pac, Julian tells Pac Studio story, Redman’s thoughts on Pac 1:21:05 - Redman’s Relationship w/ Biggie, Tupac & Biggie Deaths 1:25:31 - Redman’s beef w/ MC Hammer Story  1:27:21 - Redman inspired Eminem & Ludacris 1:30:05 - Famous MTV Cribs Episode 1:34:11 - Redman’s thoughts on the state of rap, Mumble Rap, Fake rappers today 1:42:55 - The “Microwave” generation 1:45:03 - Redman goes undercover at Governor’s Ball (Story) 1:49:20 - The 90s rap “formula” 1:51:00 - Redman thinks Julian looks like Seth McFarlane 1:52:55 - Pandemic brought people back to 90s pop culture, VERZUZ battles w/ Method Man 1:55:31 - Why Redman Doesn’t Hang w/ Rappers or Family 1:56:49 - Redman’s creative control & obsession w/ sound engineering & video editing 2:01:06 - The stress of making a perfect record 2:04:41 - The Jaws Edit Story 2:07:37 - Redman’s cannabis movement 2:10:55 - Gov, Big Pharma & Alcohol Comp Corruption re: drug system 2:14:01 - Story of Daughter’s serious Heart problems 2:23:08 - Kids w/ Aggressive Cancer & Heart Issues, God, Cannabis vs Modern Medicine 2:31:26 - Redman’s main goal of campaign 2:35:06 - The consequence of not properly de-scheduling cannabis, Veterans & psilocybin 2:42:20 - Redman’s gaming tournament 2:45:57 - Redman’s info CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian D. Dorey - In-Studio Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@alessiallaman  Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 285 - REDMAN Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You were coming up in the early 90s where there's a rebirth of the East Coast rap. Right, but New York was very cocky. We had to fight our way into the realm of hip-hop. I knew I was going to get on. And that's just what happened. It was the belief, the faith, and the craft, the dedication. You can't have f***ing. Especially with this type of industry, you got to put your all in it.

How did EPMD find you? They brought me right on stage that night. So I started spitting some bars. Walk off stage. He wrote his number down, Eric Sermon. And he was handing it to me. My boy requested just give it to me i was like i felt a little tension i memorized seven of those numbers that's it i ain't see it again so i gave my boy the benefit of the doubt two weeks went past yo what's what's good nah nah i ain't calling him yet three

months later yo i lost the number bro this i kept trying to area codes was like, this area code not working, but this area code worked. At the end of the week, I got someone. Yo, this area code, who this? Redman, you met at the club in San San. Yo, man, I've been waiting for you to call me, man. What happened? I was like, man, because my boy had the number. Do you think coming up on the DJ side shaped who you were as a rapper?

Big facts. You have to learn to do it all. When you DJ a party, you know how long to keep that record on before it gets boring. Scratching the beat, bringing the record back, bringing the record back. They used it to the max. What was that studio like? When the music started, you had to get up no matter how early it was. I carried bags for them while we was on the road and they gave me five minutes on stage. That five minutes, I tore the back neck out that stage. That five minutes, I tore the back neck out that stage. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge,

huge help. Thank you. So you're staying away from the plastics, huh? Yeah, I'm trying to. What's the latest there? Is it all leaking into our water? Do I need to learn more about this now? A lot of people, you know, like my boy, one of my boys tell me about it, and my girl always try to convince me to stop eating from plastic forks. Yeah, like using the plastic. Yeah, because when it's heated up with the spoon, all the chemicals coming off the, you know. When you live alone, I don't want to wash dishes. So I'm plastic cup.

My whole cabinet cupware and silverware is plastic. So I had to get rid of it. And it makes sense, though. I feel you on that 100%. It's an extra thing to do. You know, we got to be creative. We got to feel our way that way and not worry about the dishes and food and stuff. Yeah, tell me about it.

You can't do nothing. You got to eat with your hands next food and stuff. Yeah, tell me about it. You can't do nothing. You got to eat with your hands next. Like literally. Yeah, exactly. A hundred percent. But it's great to have you here, sir. I'm real excited to do this. Obviously, like you are a legend of the game, as you corrected me before we got on camera.

MC. MC of the game. MC. That's right. Thank you, brother, for having me. Yes. Of course. Master of ceremonies.

Of course. And we have your sister here, Safita, who had a chance to meet at the event last month where, you know, you guys obviously have like a political organization here that has one very clear goal that we'll talk about today. But I also really, you know, some of the personal story on that was really cool, which I'm sure we'll get to. But, you know, Red, for all the young boys and girls out there who weren't around at the very beginning of your career when you were coming up, you know, was this something as a kid where you were just writing down rhymes and into lyrics, or did this kind of come later where you saw your friends doing it? How did you initially get into rap?

I started off as a DJ. I was DJing at 11 years old and uh when you dj you you know you pick up the uh the art and craft of everything like you know you you you can start off as a dj end up dancing end up uh emceeing end up graffitiing like i did a little graffiti back in the day but the art of rap I picked up at like maybe 14 mmm 15 listening to a lot of greats you know other artists I was spinning like slick Rick KRS EPM D you know rock him Big Daddy Kane salt-and-pepper heavy D. I was spinning all their records and I loved the energy that it gave me when I DJed their records and listened to them at the same time.

I wasn't only a DJ, I was a fan. I started spitting bars at maybe 15. Rob Markman, Wow. Lil Jon, Yeah, 15 years old, 14, 15 years old. Rob Markman, Were there a lot of other people in Newark Who had the same taste for it you did? Oh yeah, definitely My boy Do It All Do

From Lost at the Underground My cousin Tane One From Artifacts They all got on after me They got in the rap game after me But yeah It started off with Queen Latifah, Laakim Shabazz, YZ, the early greats, DJ Twin Hype. It started off with those people, those artists, and they kind of paved the

way. From Queen Latifah went to Naughty by Nature. And then I came out and then it just trickled on down to like Lord of the Underground, Artifacts, Rod Digger, Outsiders, you name it. You know, what's my guys down in? PYT, Poor Righteous Teachers. It's a lot of artists in Jersey. A lot of artists. They were lot of artists they were loaded up yeah absolutely and this was also like during the time where you know you were coming up in the early 90s where there's almost like a a rebirth of the east coast rap like trying to make its own identity and you were one of the guys that kind of paved the way with that oh yeah definitely hey can i can

i hear myself a little louder in the oh sure Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turn you up right here. You know what's crazy? You're the first guy to ever request that. I've been doing it. I've done like 300 episodes. You're the first guy. Hey.

I broke the cherry. Is that better now? Yeah, I hear it. Okay, say that question again, boss. You were one of the guys that was paving the way for the new era of East Coast rap at a time where obviously NWA comes onto the scene like crazy in the late 80s, kind of has their own lane, but you guys made your own sound and obviously groups like Wu Tang, you're close to Method Man and things like that.

It was such a time where it was almost like an untapped territory, no? Right. Especially for Jersey artists. Even though we're in a trifecta of the states, we're considered the tri-state, Connecticut, New York, and Jersey. But New York was very cocky. Don't look over here. New York was very cocky with letting other artists into the realm of hip hop. We had to fight our way in. Even though we were only five to seven minutes from the tunnel to New York, we had to fight our way in.

Because when you went out of state, like I'm from Newark, right? And you go out of state and you say, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm from Newark, New Jersey. They're like, oh, yeah, you from New York? No, no. I'm from Newark, New Jersey. Oh, yeah, New York, where they got up. Nah, nah, my bro. Bro, listen, I'm from Newark, New Jersey.

So fighting for that title right there was enough, let alone fighting with our comrades that was only seven minutes from the tunnel. You know, they didn't really believe that Jersey was competitive at the time. it off for Jersey and then Naughty came in and just completely changed the algorithm of hip-hop as far as the East Coast. Everyone wanted to sound like Tretch. Big facts. Tretch wrote for a lot of artists. Everyone wanted to sound like Tretch.

I see a lot of artists that picked up on his style, his dress, his dress code, his movement and then I came out and then I set a tone for artists for Jersey, for the Jersey artists. So, yeah, it was a fight. And it started, the fight started on the East Coast with us trying to get in into that New York realm of hip hop, if you will.

It's also a different time in the sense that like now, obviously there's still middlemen and there's still people who kind of can be kingmakers, but you can break through on the internet. If it's good and it goes far enough, you go viral, you kind of get that first step. Back then though, you got to go through people to get there. So you might be making incredible shit, but if they just decide, nah, we want these guys, not those guys, they kind of had the power of the pen to do that, no? Absolutely. I say that on stage, too. Before me and Mef got a set that we dedicate to the fans that's a little bit tired of the shit they play on the radio.

That's what I say on stage. We dedicate this part of the show to the fans and the people that respect our artists, our MC, that's a little bit tired of the shit that they're the fans and the people that respect the artists at mc that's a little bit tired of the shit that they're playing on the radio and then we get into our spill it's like a routine we do what we just mc and barn out right um and go back to go back to your question yes like right now your grandmother can be the hottest grandma on the market rapping you give her a hot hook and uh a hot beat and some bars she's the hottest chick on the market shutting down a building for a while until another grandma knocks her out the place right like facts that's that's the world we live

in right now because of the uh the opportunity that the internet social media give you but back in the day you had to fight your way up that that grapevine like we not only had to fight for our spot because it wasn't too much uh spot to fight for it was like either you was either on mtv bet or video music box. That was it. And you had to fight for that little spot. And if you didn't get played that week, you had to maybe wait another two weeks to get played or get your video played. So yeah,

it was a little tighter, but not even fighting for that spot only. We had to fight for the, I guess for the, the, the, the, the, the the the the the the the gratitude of the artist before us like to give us that certification like okay he's dope i i like i like what he's doing he's dope you should fuck with him and the record labels too like you know the artist before us was at the

record labels we were trying to get on that so i know some of the executives were asked hey is this guy dope to you because i helped put a couple of artists on uh through my label them coming to ask me for my opinion so i know they had to do the same for us like q-tip had was one of the uh main ingredients why I got signed as well. Not just the PMD alone, because those guys... They discovered you, Connor, right? Yeah, they discovered me. But when it came to Def Jam, I was already a shoe in,

but it took Q-Tip to really give that certification, like, yo, he's dope, sign him. And thanks to Q-Tip to this day that's my bro but yeah we had to get approved by our bigger brothers you know our artists that was already on yeah and it was also like in the in the late 80s it was like the the rap group era obviously it's not to say there weren't individual mcs that were killing it. But when I think of MCs blowing up on their own, you think of that Tupac, Biggie, Nas, Jay-Z era, which is the same exact era where you were blowing up as well.

So you came in. First of all, how did EPMD find you? Did you go perform with them or something? Yeah, I did. No, you know what? What's funny is they're the main reasons why I started rapping, started MCing. emceeing. So APMD was one of the main reasons I started emceeing, right? When I first heard their song, their album, if you will, Strictly Business. When I first heard that album, I was like, yo, I got to do this, right?

What about that album was great to you? The slow flow they had. Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, they were talking about knowledge. They were spitting knowledge. It was like at a time where I was DJing where knowledge was born. Knowledge was the gift, which it still is to this day. But then again, you had that money talking. EPMD, Eric and Parrish

making dollars, that's what EPMD stands for. They were talking my language. it wasn't just the language, but it was the flow they had. Like Slick Rick is an ingredient of who I am. KRS-One is an ingredient of who I am. KRS-One is an ingredient of who I am. Tame One from Artifacts is an ingredient of who I am.

NWA and Ice Cube is the ingredients that makes red, man, right? But EPMD really topped it off and gave me that battery in my back that I can do it. A 2024 study links caffeine to higher anxiety risk. Half of North Americans are sensitive to it and 40 million Americans are diagnosed with anxiety. Coffee's jitters fuel anxiety, yet it's the most used drug in the world. I actually remember back in spring 2022 when I was building this podcast and editing all the time, I was using way too much coffee. I would drink it right when I woke up in the morning. I'd have another one after lunch and then I'd even have a third at night and I was constantly just feeling shaky all the time. Then I heard Andrew Huberman on his podcast talking about theobromine in

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supposed to be performing that night at club sensations in newark new jersey oh it was in newark too yeah it was in newark too stayed on this side yo it was in newark too out yo it was lit yo bust it bust it right so so mc light was supposed to perform. She canceled. And my boys was like, yo, you want to go to the club? And I thought we was going to see Light. And then when she wasn't, when I found out she canceled, I was like, no, I ain't going to go. And then it was like, you EPMD performing, EPMD performing. I was like, okay, all right, I'm going to go down there. I go down there and see.

And my boy, Do It All Do, from the Lords of the Underground, he had like a backstage kind of a credential. Even though it wasn't a backstage, it was just like a real tight ass club, club sensations. It was ghetto as hell, right? Like everything was in one. It wasn't no backstage. It was like, here's the stage and there goes the backstage right there, right next to the stage, right? So we in this little room and my boy Do It All Do spitting. Then one of my other homies

starts spitting and Eric Sermon asked me to spit. And I was like, nah, I'm just a DJ at the time. Because at the time I was MCing, but I only had like two raps and shit. And I was DJing mostly. I was DJing for Do It All Do actually.

And then he asked me again after my boys done spit, they done got in the set, they rocking. And then Eric Sermon asked me again after my boys done spit they done got that yeah you in the set they they rocking and then my then eric sermon asked me again he was like yo let me hear something man come on man let me hear something so i started spitting some bars and uh they brought me right on stage that night and i went on stage and half of the hood was in the audience and they looking at me like what in the fuck is this motherfucker doing on stage and i ain't believe it i got up there and they asked me to start rapping like they they said yo why don't you bust some bars and i was like yeah and i just

farted right there. And the audience looked at me and they farted. Yeah, it was serious. It was just like that. And I started busting some bars. And then Eric Simmons was like, yo, this is our new artist. He's going to be coming out. You'll see him soon.

He was like, what's your name? I was like, Redman. He was like, what's your name? Redman. Yo, you're going soon this is our new artist and i farted again and the audience farted oh my goodness and yo bust it though bust it yo because it's an ill story i tell the story all the time just to show you how god god is how great god is right so so all right we walk off stage and we get to the dressing room and one of my boys that had the credentials, not my boy do what I do, but my other boy, he had like one of the main credentials to go see him backstage. And even though I was humble, I was like, no, I don't want to rap, but they made me rap anyway. I felt a little tension from the dudes I came up there with because they were

spitting their bars to get on. You feel me? And I was just a DJ. So... They felt over. Yeah, just one of them just felt a little funky. So here's the thing. EPMD was about to leave.

And, you know, there wasn't no cell phones back then. So he wrote his number down, Eric Sermon. Wrote the number? That's old school shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wrote the number down on a little piece of paper. Page me. Little piece of paper.

And he was handing it to me. Now, mind you, I already felt. I wasn't. I was on my business. I knew it was a little tension. I say, you know what? I'm not going to see this number again. And because my boy, my boy requested, yeah, just give it to me.

I was like, oh, OK, because he Eric Sermon wanted to give it to me. But my boy was like, yeah, just give it to me. We'll give you a call. As he was passing a number i swear on my mother as he was passing a number to finger to finger i memorized seven of those numbers it was like that's it i ain't see it again i said all right i remember the seven numbers but i didn't remember the area code but i knew they lived in Long Island. So I got to a corner, wrote the seven numbers down so I won't forget it, and locked it in my pocket.

Left there. So I gave my boy the benefit of the doubt, right? I'm sorry the story is so long, but it's a great one. This is great. No, no, check it. This is when you have faith, right? So two weeks went past. I ain't disturbed my boy.

I was like, you know what? I'm going to let him. I'm not going to hound him. Called him. Yo, what's good, man? Yeah. Yeah. Yo, did you give Ian and McCall?

Yeah. Nah, nah. I ain't called him yet. You know, I figured I'll let him breathe a little bit all right all right all right cool click um hit him back like another two weeks later like yo you give uh yeah yeah yeah i called man and i didn't get an answer you know i was like all right cool you know i called a couple of times and then I just left it alone for like maybe

two months two three months you're never gonna get this number called back mind you I was talking to him in between time but I didn't talk about the number I didn't want to seem greedy and shit so calling back about it like maybe three months later

yo man did you yeah man because i'm figuring they they would have picked up on a yo i lost the number bro damn you know i lost that number man i can't find it i was like fuck this i was like yo hello i was like, I called. No answer. Called back at the end of the week. I got someone. I was like, oh, hey. And it was Eric Sermon's sister. I was like, yo, is he there? And she, because I kept trying the area codes. I was like, all right, this area code not working, but this area code work.

And I said, is Eric Sermon in? And he's like, oh, no, he's out on the road. I was like, yes. Okay. Yeah, just tell him, just red man call. You know, he's out on the road i was like yes okay uh yeah just tell him just red man call you know he met me at the club in jersey and she was like all right click call back again like maybe two weeks three weeks later yo eric sermon there yeah yeah he's still out on the road okay just tell him uh you know red man call again you know i'm sorry calling so much of shit you know

cool call back like maybe like a month later just to give him a good time to get back. Call back, yo, Eric Samson right there, hello? Yo, this Eric Samson, who this? I was like, this Redman, Redman, you met at the club in San Sergio. Yo, man, I've been waiting for you to call me, man. What happened? I was like, man,

because my boy had the number and I was like, ah! I was crying like a bitch almost. And then, yo, he told me to pull up in Long Island. And that was the history when it started. And at that time, I got kicked out my mom's house for selling coke. Oh, you were selling coke? Yeah, I was selling coke.

How'd you get into that? Yeah, I was in a coke drug infested area i was in a drug infested area and i refused yeah i refused to work you know that's what you end up doing you don't want to work you're gonna sell some coke and some weed so i was selling coke got thrown out my mother house for for having coke in the house. Then I went to live with my pop. I was selling bud and shit. And over there, all the bud fell out my pocket. I didn't even know. I went outside and he came home.

It was weed everywhere on the floor. He was like, out. And at that time, I had nowhere to live. And when I called E, he was like, yo, come on out here. Meet me at McDonald's and shit. We sat down and talked. I was like, yo, I kind of got no place to live. And he said, yo, come on out here. Meet me at McDonald's and shit. We sat down and talked. I was like, yo, I kind of got no place to live. And he said, come on and live out here with me.

I was like, farted again. All over the place. But at the end of the day, that story is to really remind people if you have faith, especially when you're young, like when you're younger, your faith is through the roof because you can believe you do anything, especially when you're a child, like seven years old, eight years old. You can believe you can do anything. And I still had that faith, even though I was I was going to church with my mom's. My mom's made us go to church all the time. But I didn't know I had that faith back then because i was really strong-minded and i was there was no doubt in my mind that i was going to get on and i had that power i had that gift like i knew i was going to get on and uh that just goes to show once you just stand your ground practice your art believe in what you do have faith in what you do walk that walk that thin line of damn am i going to make it or am i not or just make or walk that thin line of, damn, am I gonna make it or am I not?

Or just make, or walk in that line of, I'm gonna do this shit. It can happen. And that's just what happened. Like, with one of my favorite artists. And yeah, like. What the F? Getting more used to that than ever.

Yeah, exactly. But like, guys that you came up with who might've been really good do you think that's why some of them obviously some of them made it but the ones that didn't do you think it has to do with the fact that maybe they just didn't have that i'm gonna do this at all costs type belief you did or is it more than that yeah it's it's it was first of all like i practiced my craft really well like i was good at my craft like whatever I set my mind to do, I go 110. I don't do 80.

I don't do even 95. I go 110 and beyond. It was the belief, the faith, and the craft, the dedication. Like I went to Montclair State before I became a university. I did two years up there. I was okay too, but I was selling drugs while I was going to college, too. So I was on a campus with big-ass chains on. I was like, this ain't for me.

I'm like, what am I doing? Even though I was a C average, I had two more years to go. I dropped out in my second year, after my second year, and I was like, yo, I'm going to dedicate myself to do this. I mean, I put full dedication in it. You can't half-ass it. And a lot of people kind of have a safe uh a safe zone they like okay i'm gonna do this but i'm gonna do this too just in case rap don't right and yeah those people don't succeed at it especially with this type of industry you got to put your all in it yeah i remember i i think it was denzel washington

that said this i don't know if he's the one who came up with it but he he said he never liked plan b so i didn't fuck with plan b because it was just a distraction from plan a and if you if plan a is like something you know quote unquote crazy that's really hard to get to or whatever you better put all your energy into it right to get to that and obviously that's what you did right and so when when you when you initially got put on by epm dito, were they bringing you into the crew or did they want you to kind of make your own solo career right away? What was that conversation like? Well, when I got out there, I had to make my own way. Like I started off on two.

I was living with Eric Sermon. We was dedicated. We actually lived in a one bedroom apartment with three dudes, uh, the road manager, Kool B, Bernard, Alexander, Eric, and me. And I really appreciate this guy for even allowing me to be in there. Cause he could have said no. Um, but we all was cramped in one bedroom apartment. Uh, we took turns who's going to get the bedroom or whatever and it was like i was making my way from there it was like with that kind of environment we were ten toes down for working like waking up you couldn't help but to wake up around music he would wake up early start

with the music i would get up early start with the music when the music started you had to get up no matter how early it was um And we was just making our way. Our goal was to be in that tiny apartment, but always be on the road, doing tours, making a way for myself on stage. I carried bags for them while we was on the road, and they gave me five minutes every night that I had on stage, I tore the back fucking neck out that stage every fucking night with DJ Scratch. Um, my big brother who taught me how to DJ, right? Every night, five minutes, the crowd would go fucking wild. It was, it was so bad some nights they used to be like, you're not coming out with that shit tonight like facts facts facts they say you not coming out with that

shit tonight sorry um but then i made my way carrying bags spitting them bars for five minutes and then i started getting more known more recognized as i worked on my album in that tight spot we were staying in and then we made a, and then we shopped at the Def Jam. Went up to Russell Simmons' spot when he was living in Manhattan. And, yeah, I got signed. And that was – Def Jam had been around for a while at that point, right? That was Russell and – Leo Cohen.

Leo Cohen. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Kevin Lowes had joined the team when I got signed. What did you think of Lior Cohen? He's the best. Lior still called me to this day. We talk to each other.

He stays overseas. He's a mogul of this hip-hop genre that we speak of. He's one of the top moguls. Like he said, he said a quote back in the day that I never forget that I still stick to this, to this day because Def Jam was that label. Everyone wanted to be like bottom line, hands down.

And he was like, yo, you know, Reggie, you know, we're, we're, we're the guys.

We're not the guys that's driving the car. Reggie, we're the guys that's under the hood, that's under the car, making the car run. That's who we are. And to that knowledge, at the time when I was dropping my third album, Def Jam was on a slope down, like down. It was like real, real low far as artists not bringing in no money. Why was that?

I guess the roster wasn't healthy, if you will. It wasn't healthy with artists putting out the right material. It was going through a change in hip hop from like really being commercial to being more of a smoker culture and all that. And they wanted me to do some commercial music when I dropped my third album. And I was like, no, this is what I'm doing. I already had my album done and set stone Stone, and it was Muddy Waters 2, which is one of my high anticipated albums at that time. And they was like, yeah, well, we want you to go back in and do some commercial kind of things. We want you to go in there with this producer.

And I was like, no, just believe in it, what I'm doing. And they kind of held back for a little bit, but they were on a slope down. They were losing money. And Leo was like, you know what? We're going to take a chance. Let's go with this Muddy Waters. And me and Warren G from the West Coast came out with our albums. And it actually saved Def Jam.

If you ever talk to Leo, you ask him about how Reggie and Warren G saved Def Jam. He'll tell you the story clear as day. And we saved Def Jam. We pulled them back up with the sales because, you know, going 500,000 gold, that's money. Yes. And physical copies of CDs and wax. So that was money. So it actually helped the label go back up.

They were able to sign more artists like jay-z came in the game then x came in the game and then the roster was thick and we were unbeatable by any label but yeah leo cohen is that guy still to this day russell simmons is that guy to this day yeah and like to your point though, you kept to who you were. You kept to a style. In a way, talking to you off camera, you're the same guy, but it's this vivacious storyteller, kind of like in-your-face MC, to use your word on it.

And I think what you see a lot of times in the music industry is they'll try to push you, just like you said, to go make this stop because that's what Z100 is going to play next week. Right. And as an artist, you got to fight that battle of like, well, if I start doing things that my fans are going to be able to tell that's not who I am, they're going to smell right through that bullshit. Right. So it's kind of like a paradox. Like, you're not really going to end up doing what they want you to do in the first place. Right.

Well, it's like i always tell young artists or any artists like never compromise who you are or your style or what you believe in that goes for any occupation you in right um but then again you had to uh you had to be thorough enough like on your job what you do for the company like i couldn't just go up there and be like, all right, and I ain't sell no records. And I'm like, well, you know, this is what I want to do, and I ain't selling anything. I'm not moving no weight.

They're going to be like, no, you're going to do this, because we tried your way, and it didn't work a couple of times. So my first album went gold. My second album went gold. So I had some leeway. You know, I had some push. I had to, as a matter of fact, I told him, I said, you know, listen, if my album don't go gold, I said, I will give y'all the next album, whatever. And I told him if it do go gold, I want a million dollars for my next album.

And I got that million dollar check that million dollar check for my fourth album docs the name so yeah uh artists especially if you're you're you're assigned to a label you definitely have to have great work ethics to if you will talk a little shit and and and and make a way for yourself at a label. But if you're independent, you can do what the fuck you want. You just have to build your own fabric of music that you think is going to resonate. You ain't got anyone behind you saying, yo, this is what it's going to be. This is the temperature out here.

We want you to rap like this. We want you to talk like this. You have to create that. So you have to be smart on your game. And if you are at a label, you have to work. You have to make your own leeway up there to get recognized that you can change this label around, that you can make a difference at this label. And once you do, then you can start making your own this label and once you do then you can start you know making your own way like hey all right we're gonna drop this album next y'all and they're just like okay everybody lined up for this this album right here he knows what he's doing yeah so that's what it was you think LeBron will have more than eight assists on Saturday night and Luke could

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lineup prize picks run your game. Back then, what would they do? It's so different now how they promote albums and everything. When you would be coming up with an album and you'd want the label obviously to get behind it and really promote it, what kinds of things would they be doing to promote albums to make it successful?

Street Teams was the number one grassroots of promoting an album in stores. Well, we had Sam Goody and these record stores, Moms and Pops, where you could go buy your physical, like the wax and the CDs. a promo tour where we would drive state to state in a van or bus or whatever, just doing promo, doing shows, maybe for the promo, the promoter might have a show attached to the promo run. So we would go to that state. We would go to the record store that day, sign physical copies, shake people's hands, take pictures, and then we would do the show that night and go by the radio station.

Yo, we got the album out. Go pick it up at Def Jam. You can find our album at this mom and pop store or at Sam Goody or at Tile Records, whatever the case is. That was the promo. And then we would do phoners. We would call different radio stations while we was at Def Jam. We used to come up there and just spend like a half

a day just sitting down, making calls, talking to different DJs, giving them a shout out. In those days, major radio stations wasn't the only outlet. College radio

was the biggest thing in the nineties college radio, college radio was matter of fact, main, the main, uh, stations, the main radio stations got their ideas of what's hot from college radio. College radio was number one in the nineties.

It was known for having uh college parties first of all but then again they had their radio stations which was lit and they were like a big ingredient of promoting the music because we did a lot of colleges in the 90s and in the early 2000s so college radio was one of those main ingredients. But the grassroots was shaking hands directly, signing autographs, and moms and pop stores. What'd your family think of your career, Blasman? Because like you mentioned, obviously, there was some friction there

during the years right before you got kicked out of house and stuff. But what'd your parents and siblings think of what was going on with your career and all the success you were able to get? Well. So. No. Listen, when I first heard EPMD, right, my younger sister, Roz, we I had a bedroom here. Her bedroom was there. We didn't have a door to separate us, so we had a curtain.

So I swung the curtain back, and I told her, I said, you hear this shit? You listening to this, what I'm playing right now? Because my DJ equipment was right against the wall, where she slept at on the other side of the wall. So I said, yo, do you hear this? Like, this is like blowing my mind. I said, yo, listen, you're going to rap, I'm going to be your DJ, and we're going to do

this. And of course, she was just like, ah, nigga, go back to bed. And before that, my mom at the time, because my pop star left like when I was like maybe 14 or whatever, 13 or 14. And my mom was like, you know, she was a hard worker, but we didn't have the money. So that's why I was hustling to buy certain things at 16. But before I started hustling, I told my moms, I said, listen, mom, if you buy these turntables for me, I will never ever ask you for another dime in my life again. And of course, it took like a year for her to scrape up like $400 to buy me some turntables um and she did it after a year she did it and she told me she said all right nigga look let me tell you you said don't ask don't ask me for another i

don't want to hear you ask me for another dime and i said fine after she bought the turntables i went to hustling and then i got on and i never asked her for a dime since I was like 14 and 15, 16 years old. And she looks at that. She remembers that to this day because I won't let her forget it. And she's proud. She's proud that she's able to say, you know what? I believed in my son. I dedicate the money that I didn't have into his career,

and he made something out of it. At the end of the day, when you got kids, one of your main goals for your kids is you want them to be on their own and learn the way of the world on their own. You want them to get out the house and be safe and go about the world in their way, making their own living, making their own money. And that's what I want for

my kids. I don't want, I want them to be, I want them to have their own outlook on the world into how to change the world and make it better for them and for others. But most of all, not ask me for a goddamn dime. That's all parents' main goal. Like, you know,

that's happiness that's wow I don't have to take care of a grown 29 year old man still living at the house I don't have to do that so that's the that's the comfortability I gave my mother she never have to worry about me after 15 or 16 years old

so she's proud my sister she's proud in My sister, she's proud in her own little way. We mean her own little way. Well, I wasn't her favorite artist. She was a Method Man guy? No, no. She was a Mobb Deep

guy. A fan. What's the other group from... I got brain fart. Tribe Called Quest? No, no, no, no. 93 Till.

93 Till Infinity? No, the song 93 Till. I don't know. Oh, gosh. I know exactly who you're talking about. From the Bay Area. Oh, my gosh. I just was talking about him on the Red Bull joint.

I'm having a... Soulja Mister? Soulja Mister. Soulja Mister. Soulja Mister. She was a big Soulja Mister fan, and she wasn't a fan of my music. But I tried to encourage her to like, listen, at the end of the day, you my sister, you my sister, you supposed to be rolling with what I do. You could be getting a job at Def Jamming, but she didn't want to do it and all that.

So whatever. But my family was proud. That's awesome. I think it's also like a great gift to give your kids too in that you're pushing their independence and everything. Absolutely. Because they're the kids of Red Band. So there's already that thing where whenever you see someone who's really successful and

made it or in whatever it is, could be music, could be business, whatever, then there's like extra pressure on the kids and they're born with that expectation that they could almost never go past. And part of the pattern that you see across a lot of different people, I've certainly seen it in my life looking at other cases, is like the parents always want their kids to have all the things they didn't and then the kids don't really push to make their own way and they kind of get stuck.

And then, you know, like you said, they're 29 and they're asking for money and they're not creating their own life. Right. My kids don't want to rap, though. They don't want to do what I do. That's great. My daughter, she want to act, but none of my boys want to rap. I got four boys and one girl.

The girl is the youngest. And none of them want to rap, do what I do, be in my business. My daughter wants to be in television. And she wants to be modeling and doing things of that nature. But none of my boys, they don't want to do what I do. What do they want to do? My youngest son, he don't know what he wants to do yet. He wants to be his own boss.

He wants to be an investor. He wants to invest. He wants to do that. He don't listen to no rap. He don't have no social media tags or anything. He's not on IG, Facebook, none of that. He has none of that. How old is he?

He's 22. Wow. That's impressive. And he did three years of college and stopped going in his last year. And I'm proud of him because he's figuring it out. You know, hey, son, figure it out. Whatever you want to do, I'm going to support you. But he doesn't listen to no rap. He doesn't.

Matter of fact, I asked him. His name is Deani. I asked him. I said, let me see what you're listening to. Like, this was like three years ago, too. Like, I never heard anything. Because first of all, he never raises his voice. Like, he's never talked over this level. Da-pa-pa-pa he's he's never talked over this level that he never

talked over that level none of his life he didn't get that from you and then everything was just at this level hey dad how you doing dad no i'm good dad everything the all his life was that tone that tone right there and i admire that because sometimes i'll be god damn it dionne didn't i tell you to yeah dad and i'm like i want you to yell like i am at you but he's a he's the shit he's the good kid and uh but he want to do other things my son reggie he drives trucks um he don't care about anything else but look dad i'm getting this money i'll be like you got a girlfriend yet dad i ain't got no time for no girlfriend i'm driving his trucks i smash ass and i'm out that's it yeah yeah you tell me like i smash ass and i'm out in a truck i'm on a roll

and my other son naji did four years at stevenson and he's uh he's a manager at uh at what is that place what is it FedEx or some something where he's managing shit and my oldest son he's just he's working too like he was a hustler he's a he got you know he's he I raised him as well like his pops passed away and i raised him since he was three so he uh he had that hustler mentality and i he was like tommy from uh from martin i never knew what he did i never he knows that i never knew what he did i never asked no questions because he was like you gotta figure it out yeah he was getting he was getting it he was. Every time I seen him, he was fresh, clean. And I was like, okay. But now he's working.

He got a beautiful wife and his kid changed his life. And he's in mode. All of them is in working mode. My daughter goes to school right here in New York in Mount Mary. And she's in her third year. So they're all doing great. That's awesome. And they're going their own pathway. They're going's awesome yeah and they're going their own pathway

they're going their own pathway they only go in their own pathway yeah i i think i that that's great because again like when you try to do like the same thing i mean we see it now like on the stage with lebron and his son his son always has to get compared to him all the time it's like not fair you know what i mean so if you have like a if you have a different passion different things to go after like that's kind of the move. I mean, you got to do what you want to do. Yeah, but they're both in the NBA. How could you lose from that?

I know, but it's like you see the way the media is all over it. Like, oh, he's only 6'2". He's never going to be his dad. It's tough. And he's got his dad's name, too, which, you know, that's nobody's fault. But it's like when you see that, I wish he could just do his own thing. You know what I mean? Like, all right, be a basketball player in your own way, but everyone's always going to compare him to his dad.

Doesn't he play on the same team? Yeah. Yeah, he got to leave the team. Yeah, that was a dream. He got to leave the team and go to another team and go against his pops. That's right. That would be crazy. He's got to cross up his dad.

Yeah. That would be mean. Cross up your pops is crazy. Yup. Do you think, though, going back to your music career, though, do you think coming up on the DJ side where your first passion that way is like production really was fortuitous and being able to shape who you were as a rapper or MC, as I should say? Big facts.

Big facts. I know a lot of artists in the game right now that started off as DJs or had that skill as a DJ. Like one of my good friends, Lord Finesse. Talented, talented guy. He knows how to DJ. And he had a very successful emceeing career um djing allows you to it builds something in you than just being an artist uh uh uh mc uh when you know how to dj you you learn a certain edit to your skills if you will um because when you dj a party you you know how long to keep that record on before it gets boring.

You know, you have an edit. Okay, this is playing too long. Let me switch it before the crowd get restless. So we have that kind of etiquette, like, okay, wow, etiquette of edit. Like, all right, the record is short here. The rhyme is short here the rhyme is short here the video should be cut a ball here earlier before it gets boring so all that plays a role it has a domino effect so yeah dj really opens up doors for a lot of the fabric of you being an mc being a videographer uh you know

doing it all in this game because you have to learn to do it all to be a successful artist that's what i tell artists to this day i say you know you want to learn to cut the middleman out of life and the only way you could do that is learn to do everything and surround yourself with people that know more than you or work hard as you um so they can teach you something as well but then again you got to be vulnerable enough to be able to have a good ear to listen yeah because that's that's what it is it's really hard for a lot of people to listen especially when you've been you know running your own career for all your life um it's hard to really kind of just take

an ear to what somebody has to teach you because you think you know it all and it's hard to really kind of just take an ear to what somebody has to teach you because you think you know it all. And it's okay, but sometimes you got to break that wall down to move to another level. And that's surrounding yourself with people that know more than you, that can take you to another journey, another path in your journey, if you will. Hey, guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button.

It's a huge, huge help. Thank you. So, yes,j and definitely opens the door and as you see now like everybody in a mama dj right now like the the technology the technology of dj and then got so simplified yeah to just hitting buttons like everybody in a mama calling are they doing anything are they doing anything when they when when they turn it like that with their finger? Yeah, they are. They're turning the treble out of the song. They're turning the bass out of the song.

You know when you hear the... You know when it gets thin and it gets fast. Yeah. Yeah, they do their little treble trimming and all that. How are you doing it? I'm strictly two turntables and a mixer. I got the mixer in the middle and two turntables, and I'm actually scratching, and I'm bringing a record in. I don't know too much of the technology and how to use it with the mixers.

Plus the mixers that you use now, the sets that you use it, sometimes it all comes in one. You don't even have to have a turntable or mixer. Everything just come in one component. So it has so many options and so many things you can play around with. And in order to be effective, you really have to sit down and study these movements and go on YouTube and learn. I don't really have that type of time. So I just keep it simple. If I DJ a party, I let them know, listen, I'm coming to DJ nothing but 90s music. I don't know the right new music, trap music to throw on. I don't know the new guys. I don't know what's going to be effective.

So I stick to what I know. And that's 90s. And 90s is strictly giff it, giff it, bam, drop. That's it. Giff it, giff it, bam. Bop, bop, give it, bam, drop. That's it. Give it, give it, bam, drop it, drop it, bam. That was kind of born in the 80s, though, right? Like some of that, as far as that sound, when you're talking about the turntables being the bottoms of the beat,

I think back to Dr. Dre when NWA was coming up. Or is that, would you say that it changed? Well, it definitely changed. And back then it wasn't boring because in order for you to, in order for you to, back in the day, there wasn't a now. So you didn't know the evolution of it back in the day you only accepted the the evolution of

it then so our ears was only tuned into two turntables in a mixer and what you can do with that you know and believe me they took it to the max of what you can do with two turntables in a mixer juggling the beat uh scratching the beat, bringing the record back, bringing the record back, using two records to make a beat. They used it to the max. If you look at some of the DJs now, it done changed. A lot of new DJs don't know how to scratch and break it down. Yeah, I don't see them do that.

Only a couple. Shout out to DJ Livia, the little girl. Like, I watched her from a little girl to now. And you could pull her up. DJ Livia, she is lit with it because she takes the art of DJing serious. She don't just press the buttons. That's her? Yeah, that's like little Livia.

Oh, she's got, like, braces. She's young, young. Yeah, no, like little Lucy. Oh, she's got like braces. She's young, young. Yeah, no, she's amazing. She takes the art of DJing serious. And it's a lot of them out there. See, she got the two turntables. We got to watch for copyright on this. Try that.

Try that. It might get better that way anyway. Try that third one. This one? Yeah. How old is she? Like 15? Yeah yeah she's probably like 15 to 16 now she's got the full school board oh yeah yeah see she looks like she's doing something that's that's nice i'm talking about like the djs that stand there for five minutes and then suddenly go and they might hit one button and then they take their

hands off that's what they'll go into a little dance routine and then come back to it you're like what is going on here but don't get me wrong like those you gotta you gotta, those DJs, a lot of those DJs are EDM DJs. And they make their own records. Like they make their own beats. Like EDM DJs, a lot of EDM DJs are twisting the knobs because that is a certain fabric of what they do. Yeah. As far as the culture of EDM. So they're up there with the big audience,

like 25,000 people, and they're like... That is a different level. That is like a different level of the art of DJing. They're spinning other people's records, but a lot of those records there, they're spinning their records that they made,

and them records don't have no vocals on it. It's just a couple of sounds and maybe a vocal splash here and there, whatever, and they're just turning knobs. And the fabric of EDM DJing is turning the knobs, getting a different effect of the song and the treble and taking out the treble. It's a lot of mechanics, if you will, to do that. Yeah, I saw that guy years ago, Armin Van Buren in person. He's doing a lot. I'm thinking more like your fucking buddy Kevin that says he's going to come by the party and just play songs back to back.

He goes like this. It's like, oh yeah, I'm a DJ. No, the fuck you're not. No, not at all. And the ones that do the mashups, that's what I love. The ones that take old school, new school, and they all mash it up. And it just turns it into a whole completely different song. Yeah.

There's this one duo. You ever hear of Two Friends? They do something called the Big Booty Mix. You ever hear of this? Two Friends, no. Sounds fun. called like the big booty mix you ever hear this two friends no but sounds fun they've done they've done like 24 25 of them and they're all an hour long and it's like 240 to 270 songs and it's actually in my opinion like extremely tastefully done and like the talent that goes into putting

it together like they will go from ray charles to like justin bieber like that but it's not cringe it's it's like beautifully edited but you know you'll see people at a party like, oh, let's just switch it. That's not really doing it. Yeah, that's like selection. That's how I got into them on SoundCloud, listening to a lot of their mixes and stuff like that. So yeah, those are always dope. SoundCloud used to be the spot where you could go find everything.

I feel like there's not as many artists coming up there whereas in the mid 2015, 2016, 2017, a lot of guys were being discovered. Yeah, a lot were breaking on the scene from SoundCloud, but you can find some gems. Yeah, SoundCloud is for gems. I gotta go look at it again. It went from promoting artists to

more of DJing. Yes. Producing. Producers making beats under other people's vocals. It went to that kind of feel. So, yeah, it changed, but it's still very popular. Yeah. I'll have to go back. I haven't been on SoundCloud in a little while.

I used to live on there. You got to go on there. There's some dope gems on there. There's some mashups I found that I'm like, who is this person? Show me something after. I want to see that. I. Yeah, I definitely will. I definitely will. Did you play any instruments as well, Red?

I played a little drums. Played for my mother's church. Yeah. Played for my mom's church a little bit. But that was it. I always wanted to learn piano. I always wanted to learn a little guitar, but I never got around to it. But I still want to learn piano because that is an amazing instrument to learn.

It is. It is. But yeah, little drums. That's it. That's why I got one out there at some point. I'm going to get back. I did it when I was a little kid. I was like, I wish I stayed with that.

Yeah, I seen it out there. I was like, yeah, damn, he probably know how to play. When you know how to play, it's so interesting. I see guys that, I watch videos on YouTube where they got the big piano in the mall and then a guy just- Oh, it's incredible. He just sits down. I know who you're talking about. He attracts the crowd.

That is so amazing. He's amazing. Yeah. The problem is I watch one of those videos and then I'm like, fuck, here goes the next four hours. You'll see like a little girl go in there and just start like bumping like something that's not even supposed to be on piano and it's like genius right there's something so powerful about that i agree yeah i agree but when like you keep referring to the focus you had at the beginning and that's like something you're known for in your career because you had such this amazing work ethic and everything you know where did where did that

come from was that just strictly driven from, you know, you just had a dream to be the best at this? Or, you know, was there something external? It's like, I just got to fucking do this. I got to sit down. I got to do the work. Well, the focus came from the love. Like, I encourage my kids.

I encourage, like, any kid out there, like, when I give them a talk, I'll be like, yo, do what you love, then it's not work. And that's what I had. Like, I love to do what I was doing, DJing, being in the art of hip hop, if you will. Because hip hop is a, excuse me, a lifestyle. It's not just music. It's a lifestyle.

You gotta wake up, eat shit, sleep hip hop. And that's what I was like i didn't even care about getting paid it was just like i know something that's going to happen i'm gonna do what i have to do till i get on um if i gotta go out here hustle to buy records to buy equipment to to uh look good when i dj that's basically what i was hustling for i wasn't hustling about stupid shit chains and even though i did have a couple of chains and shit. But I wasn't hustling for materialistic bullshit. I was hustling to keep my game up,

to have the hottest record when it came out, to go shopping in New York at Rock and Soul, right there by 42nd Street, to go shop and spend $300, $400 on records and have crates of records. Um, when you, when you have a passion for something, you just want to do it all day and you want to, I seen how DJing, uh, made people feel like when I'm DJing, I throw on the right record and they go, Oh shit, that's my joint.

And I get the floor moving. That's a feeling. And I wanted that feeling to continue the rest of my life. Plus at 16 years old, one of my biggest motivations, why I really worked hard in this hip hop shit is because I don't like to get up early in the morning for nobody. I swear to God, like I swear to God to this day,

like, yo, I told myself I did the knowledge. I was like, all right, if I get up in the morning, go work at a job that's paying, at the time, like, minimum wage was like $3 and something back then. $5.15.

It wasn't even $5. Oh, no. It was $3 back then. that I like like every day of the week for four years to get a car that I like and then become a manager or something just to get in a bullshit apartment just to still get up in the morning to take orders I don't like taking orders I didn't think so I don't like getting up in the morning to take orders from someone I don't like someone being in the position of telling me i'm fired because i got fired from every job that i had that was another motivation like all right

this working shit ain't for me i got fired and then again i was doing stupid shit like i was cooking at sizzler at one time and we have food fights yeah sizzler we have food fights during the busiest days so yeah we was we was deserved to be fired but i didn't want to position myself in in that i didn't want to be in that position where i can get fired no more plus the biggest motivation was not getting up in the morning i am not a morning person at all and And I thought about this. I was like, I see the way my mother have to get up and my dad had to get up in the cold and go start the car just for the car to be heated and running. Right. So he get his ass in it. I was like, I can't be doing this. I can't, I can never do it. And I was scared. I was like, I got to make

this work to become my own boss to make my own hours. And that's big facts. Along with the skills and along with, you know, believing and working hard on my craft. That was one main goal. I didn't want to get up. What were those, like you talked about those early sessions when you were first running with EPMD and you guys, when you would get up, maybe not 7 a.m., but, you know, 10 a.m. or whatever. Right. You get down there and you get to work but like I think one thing that we get so we can get so

wrong now on the internet is we'll see these behind the scenes where you know they make something great they make an amazing song or you'll see the clip of like Jay-Z being played the hook by Timbaland for the first time and you get this idea in your head that that was right when they got down there. But in reality, they kind of had to, a lot of the time, turn the faucet for six hours and just have shit happen. Nothing good. And then suddenly, like, oh, there it is. You got something.

So what was, I would imagine no two days are kind of the same, but as best you can, what was that studio like? Was there always one person who was like, were you going to get on and start turning the knobs and get people going? Or what was the process creatively like? Well, to be very clear, when I say like one bedroom apartment, like you imagine how big a one bedroom apartment was. So there was no studio um we we actually got up and we went to the table that we eat on which was

we never ate on it we sat down and ate for three or four years in our lap with our food watching tv uh the the table that we were supposed to eat on would have crates of records on it. So our motivation of working was waking up, going through records and samples and pushing those records to the side. And then we would go to the studio to make the beat and writing rhymes all day, like looping the record, playing the record, looping it, get to the studio, make the beat, and then bringing it back and writing a rhyme. That was our home studio until we got to the studio, until the technology advanced where you can start making your own beats right there in your house. We was in it to win it before the SB-1200, before MPCs came out.

We went to the studio and looped it on an eight, what was it, an eight track. You know, got the beat looped. Charlie Morata, he's a very important person in the EPMD life and my life because he would loop it on an eight track, and then we would make the beat and then bring it back home and write to it and go through more records. So our waking up was buying records, waking up and listening to them. Find a good sample. Find a good loop we can fuck with. And then push it to the side.

And this is like, you know, in the 90s, I feel like now we do sampling all the time and everything. But that's what you lived off of. It wasn't as much you weren't creating things straight from the jump you were you were you were going to find old sounds and completely changing them to the point that they were unrecognizable sometimes but you could put an actual hook line to it but you're also working where a lot of this it sounds like you're going to be doing it within the group where it's not just solo artistry so how would you guys find tracks that you could like agree on like oh i could take this part of it or you could take that part of it was it just pretty on the moment kind of thing yeah i was i was uh i was a student of eric sermon if you will

um uh i liked his i liked their music and he was uh the main ingredient of the production of EPMD. So I was right under the tutelage of him and his process of making a beat. So he taught me, he gave me a, he gave me a sort of a process, if you will, on how to listen out for dope shit. And once I gained that uh i was buying records all the time and i i almost actually knew where to go where to place the needle at on an album to find the dope loops like i started off usually when you first put the needle to the record and you start off the song usually the loop is right there. Yeah. And then if it's not there, then you go right in the middle of the song where it breaks down at. Because that was like the template of 70s and 80s songs. You usually start off with the loop.

And if it's not there, you go to the middle of the record where they break it down and give the musicians a little time to rip a little bit. So we knew where to go to with the needle on that record so it was like a fabric that he taught me that i was able to just all automatically adjust to because i was so interested to know all right was this what what they're going to do i want to be the one to find that gym like yo so i could go back to him like yo look at what i found and i'll play he'd be like oh man i gotta loop it we gotta put a beat to it and yeah we we really uh we really progress every time we bought records the records was our our exercise like getting a record uh shopping for the record it was a process Going to the right record stores where other producers wasn't going.

You got to think about that. Oh, you had the record store picked up. Right, right. We went to record, like you had major record stores where you could go find gems. Then sometimes you would try to find those little holes in the wall record stores

where a lot of people haven't been to where you can go find some gems in there. So it was even a process of going to buy the records. Like you, you had to go there and sometimes a lot, a lot of times the, the store didn't have a record player for you to listen to it there. So you had to guess,

you had to actually look at the cover. You had to look at the cover. Seriously, you have to look at the cover. See, like, look at, get the feeling of the artist. Shit looks fire. It looks fire, right? You gotta get a feeling. Like, if the artist had, like, a big beard or some shit, you're like, yeah,

he probably got some shit on here. You just buy it. If it had, like, something like a dude with a half a leg or a foot or something, you'd be like, yeah, he probably got some shit on there. So you buy the record. And a lot of those times, yeah,

you'd be like, yo, did you hear this shit? Did you hear the guitar riff on here? So it was like a process of even buying a record. It wasn't easy because sometimes you come out with duds. I was going to say, yeah. And you spent like $5 on an album, $4 or $5 on an album. No return?

No return. So you just have that record. But you put those to the side, put them for the ones you don't use, and then you make a separation of the ones you do use. It was like a process. It's like an all-day process. If you buy a crate of records, what I did was I would push the ones that I decide I don't use, and then I would number the albums that I was using, and then I would record the pieces of the album that I like. So I would

actually go on the mic and be like, all right, one, and it'd be an album one. And I'd be like one in that name, the song, I'll be like song number, song number. And,

and then I'll play it and record it. And then I'll put that. So doing that process was like a, a seven to eight to 10 minute process for one record. Well, if you, if you got like 30 records, that's an all day thing. So 10 minutes for one record. Well, if you got like 30 records, yeah, that's an all day thing. So 10 minutes for one record, just the doing that, to recording the part that you like, and then numbering it, saying the number of that album, and you labeling it, writing the

marker on the album with a marker, album number one, this is what I like about it, this song on it, and record it, and then put it to the side. Yeah, that's like a seven to 10 minute process. Yeah, but then you're making a lot of options for later. You got a lot to choose from. Yes, sir. You got some gems. You got some gems.

Yes. Now, when did you meet Method Man? How did that happen? Because you guys are still partnering to this day. Yeah, we met at a... Like, I don't remember that. He said we met at a... We met at a crisscross party.

Yeah. He said we met at a crisscross... I was high as hell then. I don't think... Like, I thought we met somewhere else at Def Jam on a promo tour. But we might have met at a crisscross party. And then we went on tour. That's when we kind of

won the twin activated when we got on tour with each other. And it was one of the most well-known promo tours of the 90s. It was called a Month of the Man tour. What year is it? That was like 94. he was dropping his first

album i was dropping my second album there's a dark side and uh the label put us on the same van as i explained earlier how we do the promo run they put us in the same van to do the promo run and uh that's when we like won the twin activated like we was the van was smoky the person driving a van the whole time was fucked up the whole time from secondhand smoke and we just started barring up like I went on the beats and he would just write and we would just write all the time and then lots of the times we got off the van to go to different record stores it was like a gang of mcs ready to battle ready to show what they got and we had to get out and

do our thing each and every time especially on the west coast like in the bay area we had to battle all the time like it was during those years too yeah it was west coast beef yeah yeah definitely what was that like? What the West Coast, East Coast, West Coast beef was like in the later 90s, like maybe like 90s. 94? 96. 95, 96. Yeah.

Yeah, 96. I mean, probably the Quad City shooting. Yeah, it was like about 95. The Quad Studio shooting. Because you know, Tupac was 96 and Biggie was 97. Right. But then it lingered. No, then it lingered till early 2000. It lingered a little bit. It didn't stop. It was leveling and then it surfaced back up a little bit. It lasted until like 2000, 2001. And it was funky.

It was really funky because everyone was really tight about Tupac. Yeah. And everyone was tight about Biggie too. So it was a lot of hate. And we would go to the West Coast and it got a little funky it was like real funky out there it was like man like offstage shit yeah yeah well we still we were still body shit like we would still like do our thing on stage but the temperature out there for east coast artists was funky because we were still going out there a lot of uh west coast artists wasn't in the

east like we were out there because we we resonated out out in their coasts more than a lot of their artists resonated out in our coasts if you will um and plus you know they paid like their way on the west coast so we were still going out there doing the beef. And it was funky. I remember at times, like, it'd be some random guy calling my phone. Yeah, when you come out here, you're going to die, motherfucker. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah. It was, I said, wow, when I was getting those calls and I had nothing to do with it, that's when I knew temperature was on 10 out there yeah um

so uh but still I was I was cool as a fan I was rolling with two hammers out there like because I was still yeah I was still I was like I was fragrant with the chicks you know I had a lot of west coast chicks so any chick house I stayed at I had the hammer with me like you know um so I wasn't really worried because I kept a tight-knit circle out there of dudes that was from the West Coast. They already knew they had my back, if anything. So I wasn't really worried. But it was funky. It was funky.

Yeah, I mean, you literally got on Pac's greatest album ever at the height of this shit, too. And you're an East Coast guy. That's kind of crazy to think about yeah and it after the fact like so did you know him before that when you got the all eyes on me shot no no not how did that happen uh well the the record wasn't even supposed to be for tupac it wasn't the record uh was for dog pound red mf we did went out there to do a record with Dog Pound. Daz called us up, was like, yo, we want y'all to be on this Dog Pound album. So we was like, yo, we pulling up.

So we pulled up with Inspector Deck, who they cut the verse off of at the end, and we laid the vocals. Not with Pac. Not with Pac. Pac was still locked up. When Pac got out of jail, he was like, all right. I guess they was like, yo, we need all hot shit for Pac for this album we're doing. Double album.

Yeah. And he went to Daz and he was like, let me hear what you got. And I guess Daz was like, yo, we just did this record with Red and Meth and Inspector Deck. And Pac listened to it and was like, I need that shit did this record with Red and Meth and Inspector Deck. And Park listened to it and was like, I need that shit for my album. And he put it right on his album. Which was a good move for Daz because that's a payday.

Because that album went numerous millions. Oh, it was insane. Right. And he made that thing. Obviously, there's some that was ready for him to go. But when he got off the plane to LA, that album was laid down in 13 days. Then they had to do mastering and stuff afterwards. But that's 28 tracks.

To this day, I'm just like, holy shit. Yeah, he went in. That must have been. Yo, you got to think, he spent some time in jail, so he had time to write and to come home with some material. See, I always go back and forth on that, because feel like he did because he was such a prolific creative. But he always tried, like, he's dead now. But back then, like, he would try to say, oh, I couldn't write in prison because it just took away all my creativity.

I only wrote, like, one song or something. And I'm like, you only wrote one song, but you rolled out with 28? Like, and 30? Eh, I don't know. He had ideas. I feel like he journaled something in there. Don't get me wrong. When you locked up, you probably gained that kind of a passion of just having the ideas of what you want to talk about.

But the beats that he chose probably made it easier for him to just, all right, I'm going to talk about this on this record. I'm going to talk about that. People helped out with the hook. He didn't have to really be on too much of the creative side of getting the beat done. It was just passed to him. And the only thing, his job was to write. So he just sat down and was probably just barring up every day. Bang, he can do it.

Because I heard when he go in the studio, he go in there and he can knock out like five songs a day. Yeah. Yeah. There's a guy who I knew in the past who was around him a lot i'm not i'm gonna name drop him on here he would be mortified if i did that but he used to tell me that pock would go in there to the studio maybe like seven eight o'clock especially when he was coming up which is when a lot of guys went in and usually you know guys would have to be there till like 4 a.m or whatever and he would roll out at 11 or 12 and my guy would be coming to the studio i'd be like

you done like you sure let's go back in and listen and there'd be like six songs in there he was just a machine like and they'd be pretty good and be like all right damn you're done for the night whereas a lot of the guys you know they take way longer to do it it's just a creative process but something about him like he just made so much fucking music and he was so incredible in so many ways of what he did. It's crazy that he was only active for like five years when you look at the volume of the work. That's right. You know?

That's right. He know how to spit them out. And it takes skills to do that too. And it takes having a hook done. Like the hooks were dope too. It wasn't like he had dope bars in the song and the hook was weak everything was tight um and that comes from a circle too like being around an environment um at that time you know the studio was lit like you know yeah he he had access to the studio when

he wanted um it was quality and when the only thing you got to do when you get home from jail is to do an album. Oh, you're going to put that work in to change your environment very quick. Yeah. And so he just went from jail to a star and overnight just bang, knocked it out. Did you get to hang with him afterwards at all? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, Pac was on the move a lot.

He was too busy talking about everybody else. I wasn't getting involved in that because, you know, at the end of the day, I'm, you know, I'm East Coast, so I'm a ride or die biggie. That's what we do over here. And we didn't have the opportunity to clash. But he spoke highly about me in the interview uh where he was talking about um you know we need to get everybody like you know red man from the east coast and lords of the underground and it's in an interview where he was saying that so what i one thing i can

respect about him is that he was like uh really about the culture more than the music yeah um even though you might have thought he was wilding, and he did have his wild times, but he was definitely about galvanizing everyone and being part of the culture and making our own government of hip-hop and govern our own self. So he was definitely on a mission.

Did you get any blowback for being on that album, though? No. From Biggie or any of those guys? Not at all. No, not at all. Not at all. And of those guys? Not at all. No, not at all. Not at all. And you had a relationship with Biggie. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, yeah. Everybody was cool on the East Coast. Like, when we see each other, it's nothing but love. Like, yo, what's good? We smoking. We lit for the day. All right. That's what we doing.

We smoke. We blow the show down, and we go home. Even the New York guys? Yeah. Like, weren't letting you in? Yeah, no, no. Yeah. No, it was cool.

I never had no problem. After that, after I came on the scene, New York didn't have a choice but to be like, yo, this dude Redman, okay, he's body and shit. We got to let him in. Feel me? Yeah. Yeah. But that's crazy that the two guys who were the face of the game both get gunned down

in like a six month period. I mean, I was like two years old, so I wasn't around to really know what was going on at the time, but I learned about all this later and was obviously a fan of the music. But you have the two faces of rap suddenly gone. And there was a lot of other talent in rap,

but they obviously had all the attention at that time. And it seems like rap almost was at a crossroads, especially after Biggie died. Like, would you say that's pretty accurate? Yeah. It was, it was, I would say it was a big change for hip hop. That hip hop was looked at as, uh, not just an art. It was a sport.

And, uh, people take it serious. Like, you know, that's why hip hop is the way it is now, because it started with two, our main artists getting gunned down and the fabric of it.

Like, you know, Hey, this is not just an art. Like, this is a sport. If you go about it the wrong way, you talk about a person the wrong way, there is some repercussions.

So, yeah. But at the end of the day, walk with respect, having respect for yourself, respecting the game and the artistic ways of another artist and respecting their game. Everyone has to feed their family at the end of the day.

And, you know, if you, if you walk with that light of wanting to just feed your family and help the people, uh, outside of hip hop more than just trying to resonate with guys that's in hip hop already you think different you move different you know you feel me you're not trying to impress or be uh

you're not trying to look down on other artists that you think that's not as big not with envy and jealousy because it's a lot of that yes and. And in order for you to get around that, you have to be aware of yourself and love yourself at the end of the day. But then again, you get a lot of people who is very naive to that. And they think they can just say what they want about people, do what they want to people, and there's no repercussions. And that's where that comes in. Now, with Biggie and Pac, they were very loving emcees. I don't think their beef was the main ingredient why they passed. I think this resonated from totally something different, which I never speak on or whatever.

But I think they died because of something totally that didn't have anything to do with them. They had their beef, but their beef was the kind of beef you can go outside and squabble about. Like, all right, let's go fight it out and be back buddies. You think it was lighter like that? Yeah, it started off like that. I think it started off like that. I think it started off like that. I think it could have been handled like, yo, bro, you said this. I ain't say this.

Well, let's squabble it out and then be back buddies. But it got deeper. And as it got deeper, they mentality grew different. Like, oh, well, maybe this guy is out to get me. That's how I looked at it. Not saying that it did happen that way, but that's how I looked at it not saying that it did happen that way but that's how i looked at it and then it it went beyond their control it went to the bosses it went to the masses of people then it went to the coast the east coast and west coast and when that all that came in the ingredient

then it was like no turning back like this is full-on beef yeah that got out of control but like it's also when you look at it it's a good business decision to have some rap beat rap beefs once in a while because it creates a lot of attention and it's marketing that one got out of control but it's a tale as old as time we see some of these they're probably very fake like i'm gonna say this you're gonna say that it's gonna sell some records but like you know you got in the middle of some too i think right like it's like with mc Hammer and stuff? Was that on purpose or was that a marketing plan? No, it wasn't no marketing plan.

That just goes to show, like I just said before, you just can't talk about nobody without having repercussions. I talked about MC Hammer, Mama on my first album. I said, fuck MC Hammer, fuck his mama. Why'd you go with his mom? I don't know i thought i was the shit you know mc hammer was large man he was a large uh commodity in hip-hop like i i was just like yo fuck that i gotta go adam and i wasn't going adam like you know what fuck you hammer i

was just having fun but now that i look at it, it was like, yo, listen, I did say fuck his mama. I was like, Ooh, I wouldn't say that now. So yeah, he definitely, uh, check me as big bro.

Cause he, he was definitely older than me, but he checked me as young bro. And he gave me the, the advice in person. Yeah. Yeah. In person.

Like I was like, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir because mc hammer don't play like i said that in the interview he don't play no games and uh he definitely gave me the big bro check and from then on i never talked about nobody else like never i was like yeah because it was it was full on it was like we we could have got caught slipping almost got caught slipping too like so it was serious yeah you see where that could go yeah absolutely it's pretty cool though that you know guys who came after you like you talked about all

the influences you had back in the day when you were coming up and everything and then you influence so many people coming after you with your style and the way you went about it. And one of them is obviously Eminem, who has literally said you were like his number one influence. I mean, you've been in this for so long, you're still making great music and everything. How does that feel that a guy who comes after you, who makes, forget all the awards and everything, he just makes incredible music for decades at this point know looks at you as like the guy who got him going well that's only thing i can say is a blessing because that's what i'm here to do i'm here to influence i'm here to motivate and not just artists uh the

people out here but coming from eminem like eminem been a problem since he first came out. He's always been a problem. Just to have a guy like that say I'm one of his favorites and because when we talk like when we text and he tell me why how I influenced him with

certain rhyme patterns that I do he was like yo this see, how you said this, this is what made me go this way with, with the craft of MCN. This is when you said this, this is what added an extra battery in my arsenal. Oh wow. How did he match this word with this word? Like it wasn't supposed to go together but i made it match that's his big thing and uh and i understood because listening to him i picked

up a lot of things like oh wow okay i can flip this like okay yeah i see how his pattern going okay oh wow all right i never thought of going that way so we we inspire each other. Another person like Ludacris, too. He give me my flowers, too. Like, yo, you the reason why I do this. So shout out to Ludacris, too. He tells me that all the time when I talk to him. And I can hear it, you know, in the vocals. Honestly, hearing those two giving me the flowers that I inspired them,

I'm just doing the domino effect of what EPMD does for me and for me to be able to say that with two artists that I inspired that became very successful it wasn't like I inspired

them and they were duds like oh wow they ain't do shit like they became very very successful so uh yeah it feels good yeah yeah yeah got some grammys movies and stuff so i'm like yeah okay i'm behind that yeah i got a little influence in there so fuck yeah yeah but you also like i and i think this is what people respect about you so much i was talking with safita about this right before you got here but like you never switched up at all like you you stayed the same guy and safita was saying this too like since the beginning and you know there's no better pop culture example of that than than the cribs

episode because that show everyone just wanted to fake put on and stuff and this is pre-instagram era pre all that where everyone's faking fucking everything but you know mtv comes and they're like, oh, can we give you a fake house or something? And you're like, fuck that. You're coming to my place. And that turns into the most popular episode, maybe besides 50 Cent's. Right. 50 Cent did one that was crappy? No, no, no, no, no.

It was the total opposite. But his was famous. I think it was 50 Cent. His was famous because it was this fucking 55,000 square foot house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a big... And I believe that was 50 Cent. His was famous because it was like this fucking 55,000 square foot house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a big, and I believe that was his too. He don't play with fake shit. Yeah, here's the thing.

I knew I couldn't beat 50 Cent in having a house. So it's like my whole motto of how I stay relevant all this time was when everyone went left I go right when when everybody go left I go right when everybody go left I mean right I go left so going against the grain was my motto

of survival my neighborhood wouldn't have believed I had a house like that. And, and then I saw all the MTV cribs that was going on. I was like, yo, like the house is too clean.

No, serious. It's like, it was boring. It was the same old. Yeah. It's the same old fifth walk in closet. Exactly. Refrigerator. Everything is nice and neat. It was the same old look. Yeah, it's the same old. Here's my fifth walk-in closet. Yeah, exactly.

Refrigerator, everything is nice and neat. It was boring. And I was like, what if somebody just really brought them to the house? And that was just my MO. Now, mind you, I didn't know it was going to blow like that. I just was like, you know what? Let me do something different. Let me go against the grain.

Let me try something different. But, you know, usually when you keep it real with yourself, you get a better outcome. So that's what all that was. And people's bullshit meter. Right. They got that internally. So when they see someone keeping it real, like, that's why they love it. Because they're like, all right, that's cool.

This guy's just like me in some ways. You know what I mean? He's not living in a fucking 40 bedroom house or something. Even if he could, he's not. Because it's also, what's that quote? I never remember. It was either Hearns or Hagler, the boxer, one of them said it. They're like, it's real hard to train when you're sleeping in silk pajamas or whatever.

Whereas when you're on the come up and you're like, I got to figure this the fuck out. Like that hunger is there. So if you surround yourself with too much of that, like opulence, even if you could have it, you know, sometimes it changes up the motivation a little bit. Absolutely.

Even if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't buy no big ass house like that. Right. Like I'm, I'm too afraid to live in a big ass house. Like I'm, I'm, I'm too afraid to live in a big-ass house. Like, I'm very optimistic about living in a big-ass house. Because it's like, you're sleeping on this side of the house.

You don't know what the fuck is going on over there. You don't know what's going on on the other side. Every noise is like. Yeah, exactly. So I'll be locked in one side of the house all the time. I wouldn't even venture on the other side of the house. I wouldn't even know where to go. I'd be afraid to walk downstairs.

I have the lights on. I have the lights on all the time. I would be wasting energy just so I can be comfortable in there, like living in a big-ass house, like not knowing who's coming through the basement, who's coming through the other you know who's coming through the other side of you don't know none of that when you're living in a big crib yeah so yeah yeah it's like you could drop a pebble on the other side of the house and it like reverberates yeah

what the fuck was that literally call 911 for no reason i heard a noise do you know what it is i don't right that's why i'm calling you oh my god what do you think what do you think of where raps at today? It's obviously changed up so much. Business. It's a lot of business. It's more business. Which is good because the dollar sign done grew in rap since I came

in. In our era, we was in the $100,000 era, just the million era. We was in the just starting off with the millions in our era. Now, people throw millions out at the strip club damn near. It really progressed far as the income that grew from the 90s. It grew tremendously as far as the income because they got more outlets now. They got iTunes.

They got all these outlets. You can buy the music. Streaming sucks. I'm not going to lie. Streaming, that part sucks. I don't know what the hell is going on with that, how that came in the game

because that just started effing everybody money up. Everybody. But it opened up other doors for you to survive financially through hip hop. You know, it's not just one channel. You can do this. You can sell clothes while you're selling your music from one platform. So it became more of a business.

So sometimes the art of it disappears. And you just make a music just to open up a door to sell your merch. I know artists who just do music just to sell other things. Like, yeah, I don't really care about the music. I'm just drop this song because I'm selling the hat and the T-shirt to this that matches with the song and and a whole bunch of other things merch comes with it with this song so it's not just about the song and the craft of the song is is I got this t-shirt I got the merch I got this uh uh I got this YouTube

uh live I'm about to do doing this song to create my money through YouTube. So there's so many avenues you can progress financially through hip-hop if you know how to use them right and you got the right team around you. Back in the day, it was a couple of channels. That's it. Moms and pop stores, record stores, and that's it. One focus, too. That's it. One focus, yep.

Yeah. And it seems like there are a lot more people who do get pushed into the trap of making what they think commercial is. I mean, I've seen some of it because there's some rap now that's good, but then there's other stuff where I'm like, I don't know if this is good. Like some of the mumble rap stuff, I'm like, I don't know that that's more just like they're being pushed at in the studio for whatever reason, I don't know, and it's making money, and now they're making that music, whereas these guys might actually be good at what they do, but we're never going to know that. Right. It's interesting times. Mumble rap.

I mean, actually, that's a style. What I found out, that is a style. That is a style. Them getting on stage, not saying a record, lip syncing over the songs. A lot of new artists do that. And I was inquiring, like, why do a lot of, they say that's a style. That's done deliberately. Yeah, it's done, because every because a lot of new artists do it.

Some artists don't. Don't get me wrong. But a lot of new artists do it. They lip sync over the record, and that's a style. Mumbling a little bit, not really saying. That is a style. That is a style. And if you listen to some of the records that you think is mumbling you find out like wow okay that is a style they're doing to resonate with their audience

their audience like because i hear a lot of records i'd be like yo what the fuck is he saying in that part and i was was like, yo, you know what? There's a style that is a certain style that they're doing. So I can't knock it. If it's, if it, if it, if it works for them,

it works for them. Only thing I know is that the nineties era and even the eighties era are artists. We still got jobs because of that. Feel me? Like, a lot of people are like, well, you know, we're not too much of a fan of that style. Right. So let's go get these guys that know how to put on when they do a show and let's go hire them.

Yeah, let's bring the 90s back. And I swear, like, we went through a time in the mid-2000s or whatever where things got very slow for 90s artists. I'm not going to lie. It got to a point where we had to go overseas. Like, you know what? Let's let this shit calm down for a minute and go overseas and go get this money. Now, overseas is one of the best audience you can supply. Yes, for hip-hop, absolutely. Yeah, they're the best audience you can supply. Yes, for hip-hop, absolutely. They're the best audience you can supply still to this day.

Anywhere specifically? All over Germany, Paris, Italy, it don't matter, Switzerland, France. Yeah, they just love hip-hop. They'll bring out 5,000 people for a breakdance contest. Wow. Yeah, hip-hop is heavy. Yeah, they still very tuned into hip-hop, very heavy. And the audience and the fans come out. They show out.

So we go over there until this dies down. And then we come back and then COVID hit. And once COVID hit, like in the, what, 2020 or something like that? Yeah, 2020. 2020. 2020. For some reason, a big change started coming about. Like people wanted to start hearing like, yo, you know what? Yeah, let's hit some 90s.

Let's get some 90s artists back in. And now we're just as equal as the new artists in doing shows. Like, matter of fact, we're kind of like almost above a lot of new artists because a lot of new artists, sometimes their numbers are fabricated. Oh, sometimes. A lot of times. A lot of times, exactly. Their numbers are fabricated. So they're not bringing in that target audience that you see on their IG.

Like, they got 20 million followers. No, the fuck you don't. And they get in a concert and they got like maybe 4,000 people in there. And I seen a lot of that happen. And I'm like, oh, okay. So the cover unveils now. So now they really got to put in work. Now they got to work.

They got to work like we do. That's the thing. Like you couldn't fake it when you were coming up. Like you either sold it as fiscal. You either sold it or you didn't. And now everyone's fake. And it's not just music either. People fake it everywhere.

Right. I mean, I see. And the thing is, I feel like a lot of people can spot it pretty well now because you're like, wait a minute. 20 million followers. And then you look at the comments. It's like two comments, seven likes. You're like wait a minute 20 million followers and then you look at the comments and it's like two comments

seven likes you're like come on now exactly they got 2 million 45 million followers and no engagement

they got 9,000 likes yeah 2,000 likes and some well a lot of them don't even have that some of them barely have 100. Right.

Yeah. And you're like, how is it possible you have 17 million followers? You can see some of them where they have the same number each post. And you're like, wait, you always have 11,400, give or take. Right. You're like, man, that's the most organized audience I've ever seen. Right. And then you go through it and you're like, okay, this is definitely, you know, because it's better to build it organically.

I think I always say we live in this microwave generation where everything, they want everything quick, fast, easy. So no one really wants to take the time to build something. When you build it organically and you have that following, no matter what you do, they're going to support it, no matter what it is. I'm going to use that. Microwave generation. It's spot on. It literally is. And then when they start going back and discovering, what I'm enjoying now is watching

the discovery. Watching people go and do reactions to his music, go and do reactions to Mev, Trapcore Quest, EPMD, all of these different to, you know, Mev, Trapcore Quest, EPMD, like all of these different groups that people are like, yo, I know 90s music was that fire. They'll hear something and they're like,

wait, somebody sampled that. So now they start digging for samples and then they start discovering older music. So I've been having fun just watching people react from stuff that I always knew was great music, but it goes to show you it's timeless. It's better to have timeless music that no matter what time period you're in, you always have people that are going to go back and listen to it.

Because a lot of the music now, it might be hot right now, but it's not going to be memorable in five to 10 years. Rob Markman, I think you're right about that. I was going to go back and revisit that music. Rob Markman, Yeah. Because it all sound the same. Rob Markman, Yes. Right. And first person I ever heard

say that, I think Eric Sermon said that he was like, you know, a lot of this music is microwavable. It's just hot for a second and then it's not. And when he said that, I was like, he's right because if you

want to make, when you I tell artists, you want to gain a cult. And when you have microwave music, you're going to get fans that's only with you for that record. But as soon as you're down and out for the next one, they're not on you. They're on to the next artist. So it's like you want to gain a cult following. Like Red MF, we got a cult right yeah whether we hot or not we still got our fans like we could go build we could go on a big tour and have the worst album out and still go pack an audience because we got a cult following we

don't have a microwave following um they're not moving from red m meth if we not hot to the next duo. They, they rock with us. So we have a cult. So that's what artists need to focus on. Um, having a cult following instead of fans that's only with you for a second and then moving to the next one. So that's why we still relevant to this day. Like bro, like facts, like we can literally say, yo, we want to do a tour right now. And we have like a 40-day tour done in a week because the respect we gave the promoters, the fans we gave a show. The promoters know when they book a Red MF show or Red MF solo show, they know they're going to get their money's worth.

They know they're going to bring in the fans. We're going to bring in the fans. And they know they're going to get a good show. And they're going to get their money's worth they know they're going to bring in the fans we're going to bring in the fans and they know they're going to get a good show and they're going to get their money back so you want to build a cult following not no microwave as fans that's only with you for a minute and making this microwave as music that's just but you know what even that's uh even microwaving music is even a style i I ask. Believe me, I ask. It's like, why do all the music sound the same? Why everything is like one, two, three, four. I actually, yo, I did an experiment.

I actually worked at a festival. My boy Josh Gannett. Shout out to my boy Josh Gannett. I was working the festivals with him on the island right here in New York. What's that? Rozavel Island? Rozavel Island. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I worked with him on a couple of festivals. Is it Governor's Ball or whatever? Yeah, Governor's Ball. I worked a couple of Governor's Balls. Shout out to the Governor's Ball crew for letting me on, right? And this is what I was doing. I was driving a cart around, driving an artist to the stage, but I had my mask on. So they didn't even know who I was. And so you start talking. And I wasn't even talking that much, but I did that to get the feeling of what they're doing. And a lot of artists, some of the artists, they keep the crowd going. They know what

to do. Like some of the Atlanta artists. But a lot of artists that I seen perform, it was just all the same move. It was just that initial, all right, y'all ready? One, two, three, four. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then everybody bouncing. You see everybody bouncing the whole... And then the bounce dies and it dies down and it dies down. And then they're doing a song. And then they go dies and it dies down and it dies down. Then they're doing a song. And then they go to the next song. All right, y'all know where it go. One, two, three, four.

Same shit? Yeah. It's the same movement. It's the same energy. So it actually taught me a lesson like, wow, okay, they don't have the songs that you're doing and you're going to be rocking, you're going to be moving, you're going to get a groove to it, you want to dance.

It's like a one, two, three bounce. So when artists do that, everyone has that same movement. If you notice, all the new artists have that same bounce. Not all of them, but a lot of them got that same bounce. And I used to ask like, yo, is that like, I noticed all the music kind of moved the same. And they said, that's the style. Yes. Because when you got the producers that want to be as big as the artists, they're going to give you the record that they can play on a radio. They ain't going to give

you that B-side record. They ain't going to give you that exclusive jewel like, okay, y'all heard this single? Yeah, I know everyone heard this single, but you ain't hear this record though. The producers are just as big as the artists nowadays. So they're going to give you that song that can resonate on radio, which leaves no room for no exclusive drop, no exclusive joint to hear, no eargasm to hear.

It's just a straight one, two, three. It's a model. It's a model, but it's a style. Everyone think, everyone say, yo, yo, they got, why all the records sound the same? All the records sound the same. They sound the same. They sound the same.

I found out it's a style to sound the same. They sound the same. They sound the same. I found out it's a style to sound the same. It's a style. So it all blends. So it's okay, hot for a second, then it's right out of there. Hot for a second, right out of there. And then you think about, like Sis said, when it goes to the future, will these songs be able to stand the test of time? Since everything sounds the same, would you be able to stand the test of time? Since everything sound the same, would you be able to throw on these records 20 years from now and be like, yo, you remember that? No, because everything sound the same.

90s, we didn't have that. All of our shit was... Rob Markman, Jr.: Oh, it's unique. Rob Markman, Jr.: You heard Wu-Tang, you heard RZA. You knew that was RZA on the beats. You heard R-Squad, you know Eric Sermon was on the beat. When you heard Tribe Called Quest, you knew Q-Tip was mainly on the beat. So it gave a lot of separation from each other.

When you heard Busta Rhymes, you knew that his producers was on the beat. So when you heard Snoop, you knew Dre was on the beat. So we all had our separation. Everything was wholesome. Everything was culture-fied. Everything was solid, you know, and we can,

our music stood the test of time still to this day. That's why we still have a fucking job. Y'all had a formula. It was a, it was a formula that 90s music had. And it's really important when you have a team of producers that you know understand your sound. And I think artists then knew the importance of that. And you can tell.

That's how you can tell who was behind the beat. That's how you could tell who they were working with. And that's why they had the consistency. Because you have artists that it's nothing wrong with them experimenting and working with different producers, but when you know you got a group of producers that know your sound and understand your sound, you're going to have a great album because you got a formula. But without that formula, everything is just spinning out really fast and it all sounds

the same and then it goes away. By that following year, you don't even remember half the songs that came out before. For sure. But it's kind of crazy that the eras are this way because back then you had such a limited way of getting to people. It was physical copies and you better get at least one song on the radio so that the rest of the album can sell. Now you can go around. The radio's technically smaller by audience than ever, and you can technically go around the radio because you're on these streaming platforms. And you can promote it on social,

and you can make songs that are not made for radio. Maybe they're five and a half minutes long or something. And it can technically become a hit. And that's why labels are running around like chickens with their head cut off now because they can't control it. You can do more promotion on your social media with your record than the radio, getting radio played. Like, I don't depend on radio at all.

Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Who do people say you look like? I mean, I've gotten poor man's Justin Bieber before. No. Nobody ever say you look like Seth MacFarlane? No. No?

That's a new one. Get out of here. The Family Guy guy? No, not the family guy, actual family guy, but the guy that do... Yeah, yeah, the guy that does it. Yeah. No, not Peter Griffin. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not Peter Griffin. Not Pete. Yeah, Seth MacFarlane and shit. That's a new one. But poor man's Justin Bieber is kind of crazy. Yeah. yeah. Not Peter Griffin. Not Pete. Yeah, Seth MacFarlane and shit. That's a new one. But poor man's Justin Bieber is kind of crazy. Yeah. Wow. I would have never thought that.

I got that one like six months. Poor man's Justin Bieber? I've gotten that a few times. Yeah, I know. I'm like, what is that supposed to mean? Or like when people say a single version of somebody. Let's go to tape. Let's go to tape.

Wait, enlarge that a little bit. I like Seth MacFarlane. I don't know if I see it, but... Yeah, Seth MacFarlane is great. You know what? It's the smile. I think it's the smile. Yeah, exactly.

Hold on. It might be the smile. You know what? Hold on. Hold on. Pull up that one in the gray. Oh, he had to put on the shades for this one. No, not that one. No, the smile. You know what? Hold on. Hold on. Pull up that one in the gray. He had to put on

the shades for this one. No, not that one. No, the one. That one up there. Yeah, that one right there. Yeah, let me see that one right there. It might be the smile.

Yeah, yeah. Let me see. Not that one right there. Yeah, that one right there. Yeah, yeah. See? If he had a little hat on him,

a little Seth MacFarlane-ish. I'll take it. Yeah. That's a no. We'll add him to the list. I forget what – you know what? There's some tennis player people say I look like. I can't – but he's not like – it's not like Federer or something like that.

It's someone that's less known. I forget his name. But I don't get a ton of them. That's interesting though. Yeah. Yeah, but you had actually brought up the fact that people started listening in COVID, and they were going back and listening to your music. But what's crazy is it was also like people went back and they were watching The Sopranos

because they never watched that, or they were going back and they were watching old movies from the 90s and being like, oh, my God, this stuff's the shit. There was something about the pandemic, which sucked, that at least there was a silver lining of people having time to go find shit that was great, that maybe the cool kids weren't talking about in school, which is kind of cool, because I'm sure it create, you have your cult following that you've had forever, but now you have younger fans too. They're like, oh my God, and now they're a part of that following too, and you might have never gotten that without the pandemic.

Right. Honestly, like a lot of people, album got a lot of burn during that pandemic because it wasn't shit to do. So a lot of music, the music industry went up as far as downloading and streaming at that time because couldn't go out and do anything. It wasn't no really clubs jumping or moving at the time. So yeah, a lot of music went up. A lot of music went up.

That's when they started doing the verses too. I was just about to say that. The what? The verses. The verses. Do you remember when Semmeland and Swizz was doing the verses where they would put two artists against each other

and it's basically a battle of the catalogs. So him and Mef did one. I don't know if I saw this, no. Oh wow, really? No, I didn't see this. That was like the biggest thing. I was cooking this. No. Gia Peppers Oh, wow. Really? Rob Markman No, I didn't see this. Gia Peppers That was like the biggest thing.

Rob Markman I was cooking this thing up right here. Gia Peppers Okay. That was like the biggest thing going on during the pandemic. Rob Markman No shit. Gia Peppers They had Jill Scott and Erykah Badu did one. Monica and Brandi. Rob Markman And they're both in there together and they're playing the discography back and forth.

Rob Markman Yeah, and they're playing. Yeah, you can pull it up. It's on the verses. It's on the verses that- Gia Peppers But they were the first to perform. Him and Meth, they actually gave people a show. Like, y'all performed your music. Whoa. I don't remember anybody doing that before y'all. That actually, like...

Performed? Yeah, at the Versus. Yeah, I know, but I think it was somebody. I don't remember somebody else doing that. I guess y'all stand out more than anybody else that they did. Is this it? That's our verses. They'll build a stage.

Our verses, we have no audience. Oh, I did see this. I remember the Triller thing. I didn't really watch this stuff, but I saw stuff like this. Right. Yeah. A gang of groups did that. A gang of groups did it. They'll play their song and sometimes they'll rap it, sometimes they won't.

But that went on during the pandemic. Yeah. Actually, all the music went up as far as on iTunes and downloading and streaming. Yeah, I'll bet. Because of this. And the prices went up, too, as far as booking us for a show. Yeah. Everybody prices went up.

Yeah, bet. You and Meth get to hang out a lot these days still? Hell no. No? No, no, no. We do shows and we come back home. I don't hang out with a lot of rappers at all. Why not?

I don't. That's work. Yeah, yeah. Like, this is work, this is home. Like, we're very inclusive with our movement. Like, once we off the road, we like we like all right you got family to deal with i got i gotta do um my circle is very small very small like either i'm hanging out in the park i'm a park dude i like doing your part dude yeah i like doing my walk little calisthenics

and getting back to work um yeah so we all have different lives i don't hang out with rappers i wouldn't have expected that answer. No, hell no. I might call. Like, there's a lot of MCs who I'm connected with. Like, you know, of course, Wu is my crew or whatever. But there's a lot of artists that we might chop it up on the phone. But no, only artists I hang out with is my boy Do It R Do from Lois and the Underground and Tretch if I see

him in the hood. And that's about it. That's about it. And when you're getting creative- And Kid Capri. Kid Capri is my big bro. I talk to him and I go see him all the time. But he's not a rapper though.

He's a DJ, one of the best. Yes, legendary. Do you, when you're going to make music and stuff, do you do a lot of that alone now? Oh, yeah. I engineer myself. Like I said earlier, I like cutting the middleman out. So I engineer myself, shoot my own videos with my team. I edit, do a lot of editing.

Oh, you do editing, too? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I did this. I did a radio station in my house for LL. During the COVID, at the time, it was called Muddy Waters Rock the Bells Radio. I set up the little mics on my little table. Like my table wasn't even this big and humongous. It was like a little coffee table, but you know, I set it up with two mics, me and my sis, uh, Ms. Parker, we did a radio show. So I do editing. Like I edit my album. I help mix my album. I shoot all my ideas for my videos.

The majority of them is mine. I help edit. I like being a part of the whole process. I don't like a lot of people doing things for me because I like my shit done a certain way. That's coming across today. I can tell the way you are, too. You like your shit a certain way. 100%.

You got a person that knows how to work a certain area that you are, all right, listen, you do this, but I'm going to get the camera set. I'm going to do this because you like yourself. You like your brand, your platform a certain way. So that's how I am. No, I like that a lot. I think with anything creative, if you're truly about it, you got a vision. And it's nothing personal, but that's how you want it.

Unless you'll laugh, but sometimes when we'd be making thumbnails for the first time and I was teaching him how to do it, he'd be like, no, no, you need to move that three pixels to the left. And he's like, there's like 3,000 pixels on this. It's not going to make a difference. And I'm like, no, but it is. And there's something about that that it's like when I know it's there, we're good. But it's not right. And I can't look at it.

Rob Markman, Right. And with your music, that's how you are. 100%. Rob Markman, That's exactly how you are. I am very tentative with this music. It's been times that we spend six hours on one record trying to mix it. And then we end up spending two weeks on the same record trying to mix it because I like it a certain way.

And I just don't, I just ain't hear what I'm looking for when it's being mixed. So I give the ears a rest for like three days. Then I go back to that same record for another three days till we get it right. Like the process of doing this album, I just dropped Muddy Waters. There's songs on there that I spent total

a time of three months. I believe it. But then when you hear stories like Michael Jackson spending more than 100 hours on Thriller just to get that record right, it make you appreciate what you do. Hell yeah. He literally spent over 100 hours on Thriller just to get that record right and make you appreciate what you do hell

yeah because he's he literally spent like over 100 hours on Thriller getting it right and the way Thriller is now you can still match it up with any record of today and it's still blow it out the water far as the quality and mixing of it so yeah it's worth the time when i hear stories like that it's like okay yeah i'm i can be a pain in the ass sometimes you could be a pain in the ass in your own way till sometimes you do need to get the fuck out the way and say you know what this sounds good but spending that time to get it a certain way the best way where it's i don't like leaving no loopholes on anything all right if we can't get it no tighter than this, then it's out the door. But if I feel we can squeeze a little bit more tightness of it,

of getting it the way I want, then I'm spending that time because at the end of the day, I know how to engineer. So the time is free. I'm not paying no other engineer for their time to come to my house to do it. If I can just sit down and tweak and equalize and throw the EQ on it the way I want and get it the right. I spend hours on it because it's for free and I own my own equipment. So it's zero, zero dollars I'm spending. You feel me? So yeah, I try to match that up. Now,

if I was spending money, then my thought process may be a little different. Like, all right, I'm spending too much money for this guy to come over every day and sit nine hours and i'm paying him about an hour so the process may be a little different but that's why i encourage ours to get your own equipment you know get your own uh setup and record yourself you get a better outcome feel me so do you still love music as much as you did day one yeah i'm making it yeah i do that's great i do do you ever get because of the way you're so and i love that i relate to it so much like as much as you did day one? Yeah, I do. Making it? Yeah, I do. That's great. I do. Do you ever get, because of the way you're so, and I love that, I relate to it so much, like how focused you are on the vision.

Do you ever get almost stressed before making something because you know what went into making the last one and how many hours you had to spend on that just to sit on the same bar to make sure this sounded that way on the mix? You know what I mean? Like the stress of what now has to come again. I'll tell you what. Like this last album, Muddy Waters 2, I just dropped in December, which is out right now.

That's right. Link in description. Everyone go stream. Exactly. Go to my bio, Red Manguilla. It's on my bio, Red Manguilla on IG, R-E-D-M-A-N-G-I-L-L-A. It's in my bio. But this last album, I spent a lot of time putting this album together.

I spent a lot of money getting it mixed. But it was worth it because I learned a lot, which is going to make my next process of doing the album more easier now because I know what to listen for. I didn't know how amateur i was until this album like i know how to run my own studio i know how to well i don't know how to run it fully because i still call my boy josh over to hook up some equipment i don't know how to hook up and hook it up the right way um you do need a key engineer to uh help you set your equipment up the proper way so it operates and you get the best benefit out that certain equipment um but it wasn't until this album where i was like damn my ears are amateur as hell and i've been surviving for 30 years and i didn't know how amateur my ears was to listen for compression, to listen for volume, to listen

for... I just started learning to pan the last four years of my life. The last four years, before that, I didn't think panning was necessary. Like moving it left to right? Yeah. I didn't think panning was necessary. I hated panning because it took something away from the song. Now I understand why people pan in their record, pan a sound over here, pan another sound over here.

It makes the song bigger. Yes. That's a great way to put it. Everything was right down the middle for me. I was like, no, I don't hear that. Yo, it sound different. Yo, I don't like that, man. Yo, put it back in the middle. And then I got in the panning and I was like, oh, okay, well, we got to start the album all over with mixing again.

Let's break down all the songs and let's pan these songs out now. So yeah, I just started learning to pan like four or five years ago. So I didn't know how amateur my ears were until you really spend time in the craft and wanting to learn. So now my ears are very high tuned, if you will. Veteran ears. I got veteran ears. I still got a lot to learn, but I am a guy that can hear a half a dB. Like other engineers or other people, they'd be be like i don't even know if you did anything like they would have to hear a sound turned up two to three dbs to really know it's

doing anything me i can hear a point a point of a db like that's really uh that's really like a caterpillar ball here of an inch. Very small. Very small. But I can hear that. And that one point makes a difference because I love editing. You know what I found out too? Like I did a crash course at NYFA out there in Cali.

Okay. NYFA? Yeah. New York Film Academy. Oh, and it was out in California? Yeah. New york film academy it's one in the california right i was out there staying with family and i did a crash course because i wanted to learn more about the camera and editing right so i did an edit course and what i found out which which gave me more confidence, like the movie Jaws, right? You seen Jaws, sis?

Of course. All right. So the movie Jaws, right? There was an argument on the set of the movie Jaws about showing the shark an extra second longer than it should be. That was the biggest argument on that set. If you watch J Josh the movie, you don't see the shark until like half of the

movie or almost close to the end. You only see him in the tail. But it wasn't until like the middle or close to the end you start seeing a shark. Now that was a big argument on set with the editing crew. The argument was

if you show the shark more than four seconds or three seconds it looked fake if you showed up shark less than four seconds it looked real and now and and the teacher was like that was a humongous argument on the Jaws film of that edit. And I was like, wow, okay. So I am on point because a second can make something too long. And a second can make something right there on what you need, where you need it to be to keep the audience attracted. Because we're dealing with an audience nowadays with a short attention span. So you got to get in and kick them in the balls.

Yeah, you got to hook them quick. You got to hook them on a fish and then club them. You got to club them across the head while you got them hooked. But it also makes storytelling hard too. Like with people trying to make movies now that are actually like real works of art, it's like, yeah, you got to club them at the beginning and then they want to try to let the movie breathe.

And some people may be like, oh, you know, they're clicking right off because they're used to TikTok. Right. Where it's like, I get everything inside of one minute, so give it to me right now. But at the same time, like the thing that gives me hope is you see like a lot of TV shows

having more success than ever. And yet these could be played out eight to 12 episode seasons where it's like eight hours of content and people stay with it and they sit with it. So there's, it's kind of weird. I think I heard Bill Maher say this once. We either have like a 10-second attention span or like a three-hour attention span.

There's nothing in the middle. But the way that you get people in is the first 10 seconds better be fucking good regardless of which one it is. I like Bill Maher too. Bill Maher's great. Bill Maher, he's become the voice of reason on a lot of things, which I like a lot, right? right yeah crazy times we're living in but anyway so you also we have safita here as well because you are both actively involved in a movement that was yeah that was that you knew we were coming to it but you're both actively involved in a movement of

your creation that sounds like it was kind of born in in the pandemic era maybe was thought about before that but you know what can can you just explain what you guys are doing with the national empowerment movement or national empowerment party the united empowerment party um yes we were at first first. Stop with your shenanigans. National Cannabis Party in 2021 is when we started, January 26th of 2021. In fact, that versus was when he dropped the announcement of the party, and it just took off from there. We were flying by the seat of our pants. We had no idea what it was to build out a party and grow a movement. But we both understood and agreed that grassroots is like there's an essence and an art behind it. And we felt like that was becoming really lost.

And a lot of people were tired of what was going on. We're literally like a year into the pandemic. Everything's still restricted. Everything's so up in the air. There's a lot of uncertainty. We have to completely change things around the way that we live every day. So us both understanding what's happening in cannabis, we're like, look, we're going to do this and nobody's going to tell us that we can't. Like we both share that sentiment. Like do not tell us we can't do something because it's like you're going to prove that it could be done. And so since 2021, we just passed four years on the 26th last month.

And so we've been building it and growing it ever since. We're federally recognized. What's the core goal just for people out there? Deschedule cannabis. That's goal number one. We've been saying it since day one. And since we're the only federally registered and recognized political party that focuses specifically on cannabis policy and legislation, it makes us really unique. but we also understand that cannabis is going to be the key that will give us the leverage we need to change politics as usual. So being that bridge and that liaison between both parties and making sure that candidates are put into office that not only understand the plant, but are truly here for the people because we don't really see elected

officials focusing on how they can really empower people in communities. They don't do that? That's news. I never, I thought that's all, that's their job. Well, it's supposed to be that, well, it is their job, but we're not seeing that happen. We're seeing a lot of self-interest and a lot of, you know, greed and corruption and people are tired of it. So we were like, let's build this party. Let's become the umbrella that everybody can come together under and really push things forward for the best of people and the communities that they live in, because we're not seeing that happen. So the goal is to work with anyone, regardless of political affiliation, who will take

this issue seriously with the primary goal to be de-scheduling it. Now, for people out there who are unfamiliar with some of, let's say, the very ass-backwards old school mandates that still exist in our government, can you explain the scheduling system and why weed is still at the top of the chart here for some reason? Yes. Cannabis is still a Schedule I controlled substance. So if you think about cocaine and crack and heroin, that is the same level that cannabis is scheduled under. And all Schedule I drugs are considered having zero medical benefit, which we know is not true. So by their own

definition and classification, it goes against everything of what they establish is what a Schedule 1 is. So it doesn't belong there. We have a whole market, medical market that started first when it came to cannabis legalization. So for it to still be a Schedule 1 doesn't make any sense. It doesn't define what a Schedule 1 drug is. And now there's talks about it being rescheduled, which doesn't federally legalize it or federally decriminalize it either. So there's discussions about rescheduling it

to a Schedule 3, but all Schedule 3 drugs still have to be prescribed by a doctor and then it has to be dispensed by a pharmacist. So you have to go to a pharmacy to get it. So we could be looking at, you know, weed and a pill or something like that. Yeah, which obviously seeing how the last few years have gone, that's putting people's tentacles up of trust with putting it in the pharma system. Because also, and you and i were talking about this at the event last month like you look at all the alcohol companies they're the

ones who have been already buying up all the all the all the weed fields essentially ahead of any decriminalization that would happen so you're already seeing like the oligopoly like trying to get to work on this and take away like just all right give it to the people let it be the same thing in this case in different, it's like alcohol, people can make their own decisions responsibly, you know, not have to not have to deal with the middleman here, which is going to be hand in hand with the people paying the government. Right. Yeah, so it's, it's important for people to be educated. So that's like our biggest goal is to make sure people are educated and to destigmatize

cannabis because it is medicine. At the end of the day, even being separated in two separate markets with it being adult use or recreational or medical, it's still, it's all medicine. You're going to get the same effect. You just have one that's taxed higher than the other. That's the only difference between adult use and medical is that you can heavily tax one more than the other. And it really just makes it almost impossible for people to get equal access to the plant and get what they need without the greed and all that coming into play because then it's no longer about the efficacy of the product. It's just about what makes money. And that's the worst thing for a patient. Yeah, and there's also all different types of use cases

in the way that this is used. I mean, you told me the story of your daughter too, which blew my mind. Would you mind sharing that with people? Because I did not even realize that this was a thing. And it was like the most serious type situation that you were able to, you know, help treat her with? Yeah. So my daughter will be seven this month on the 27th.

Thank God. And my daughter was, long story short, she was born with hypoplastic left heart syndrome. So the left side of her heart did not fully develop. I found out when I was seven months pregnant and it went from everything was finding out I was having a girl, which was the first, and then going from that to, okay, your daughter has one of the worst heart conditions out of all other congenital heart defects and she will need open heart surgery right after she's born. Right away. Right away.

So on a scale of one to 10, the cardiologist told us that hers was a nine. So she had HLHS and she had mitral valve atresia and ventricular septal defect or VSD, which is basically a hole in the heart as well. So she was dealing with multiple things in the structure of her heart. And she got her first open heart surgery when she was three days old. And then when she went for her second at five months, they found she was in early heart

failure and she ended up having to get a full heart transplant. At five months old. At five months old. See, and I'm very uneducated on this, but I was telling you off camera, I didn't even know that was a thing. Yes. That they will do transplants that early in life. Yeah. And I can't even fathom or imagine as a mother what this must feel like.

I mean, you were seven months pregnant when you were told about what was coming? Yes. That's got to be like the most helpless feeling ever. Your daughter's not even here yet. It is. And then think about the mothers where it's not detected. There are some children that are born with a serious heart condition and they don't know until after the baby is born. And that baby can actually go home. And now that baby's blue or they're not breathing and they didn't realize that that child had an issue. So knowing early was better for me because I had the opportunity to be induced and go through the process. And it's extremely terrifying trying to navigate that in a health care system that is not very kind to women who look like me.

That's just the reality in this country when it comes to maternal health care. And I just knew I had to figure something out. And I started doing research about ways that cannabis can help her and found that cannabis helps reduce the likelihood of organ rejection. And that study was done at the University of South Carolina. And then I just started digging for information and figuring out what I could do and how I could fly under the radar. And ended up giving her CBD and CBG. And this year is four and a half years since I have been giving her cannabis. And so, yeah. How do you give it to her?

Like a tincture? Yeah, tincture form. And it's helped her developmentally. She's been doing amazing. She has a great appetite, which is something that's really challenging for cardiac kids. And just the commonality of it, that is the most common birth defect is congenital heart disease. And there's not enough research dollars to figure out where it comes from, how to prevent it. And more children die from CHD than every pediatric cancer combined. Yet there's little research. Now you live in New York.

Yes. And I get confused with the states and everything, but what you're doing, how do you, to get the tincture, can you do this over the counter right now? Are there hoops you got to jump through? You have to get it directly from someone. Well, I had been getting mine from Humboldt County, California. There's a family that had been helping me. And they heard her story. And they said, where are you getting her tinctures?

It was like, she won't ever have to worry about medicine again. We'll send it to her. And it's expensive. For what she has to take, it's not cheap. And Lost Coast Wellness, Jared and Effie, shout out to them. They have been very good to me and my family in providing that for her because I don't know what I would do or what I would have done if I didn't figure it out. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Please.

So what we're doing is bigger than what people understand. And as a mom going through that and almost losing my child, I don't want any other mother to go through that. I don't. And I wish these lawmakers would understand. Like, why do we have to go through all of these hoops and hurdles to do something about this? Just de-schedule it. Like, it's simple and we keep getting this promise and nothing is happening. And we do this every day. It's hard. It's a lot of things we don't talk about that we've had to deal with, just going up against that. Because you have to think you're going up against a very big machine that does not want to see this happen. And that's why we're here. And for every mother that I have had to comfort,

that I've had to talk to, that I've watched lose their children, it's too many. One is too many. So that's the whole mission and purpose behind us doing this because we know so many people need it. And there are pediatric patients that need it, that should be able to get it but there's not really much access for children to use cannabis anything you want to add to that right well it's like sis is is living proof of what cannabis is about it's a medicine and uh like i i i think about the story all the time with nisi and and what she had to go through and don't any mother want to go to do that with their kids at all um that's why we're here for the fight that's why we're fighting for it it's about really saving the world and saving mothers as well that has that type of story yeah

because man s you know this yeah it fucks with me too sorry over- counter drugs, uh, FDA medicine is like, I, I don't, I don't, I don't abide by it. Um, and I don't think Meecy would have been able to abide by it and to have a healthy life as well. And just to know that cannabis changed her life, um, in a way that she's thriving. She's growing and having an opportunity like any other kid has just from a cannabis plant. It shows right there what it's about, what cannabis is really about. It's a medicine, like sis said and uh believe me it's a lot of

mothers out there that's going through it that don't know where to turn to yeah right and if we don't galvanize right now as a unit as first of all like we always say like the cannabis industry is like 170 million plus registered voters yes all we just need to do is go under one one under one umbrella excuse me we need to galvanize under one umbrella and that's why we created the party feel me is one of its kind but it's also to make a statement that we want to give this plant back to the people to the people who can actually benefit from it not financially but health-wise um cannabis has been known to cure cancer but of course you know like big companies big farmers want to keep this on the low because they need to make their money and that's just facts but we're fighting and we're fighting to the schedule

and the benefits from the schedule i'm sure sis will explain why we should this schedule and the benefits from it it all makes sense um but if you have a story like sis here you know follow what we do um tune into www.unitedempowermentparty.org and see the work that we're doing and be a part of the growth be a part of the movement so we can actually do something about the stories yes out here that mothers have that they don't know where to turn to and safita you were saying you you've spoken with other mothers whose kids have not made it, who maybe this could have helped them. Yeah.

From moms who had kids that had heart conditions and other complications, mothers who had children with really aggressive forms of cancer that they were being treated for and, um, and wanting to, to tell them so bad. And sometimes I would get around to doing it and they were just afraid and they didn't want to even think about having to going through one battle and then thinking about the potential battle of losing your kid. You know what I mean? And for my daughter, I knew that taking her off of medication would not, that would send off alarms. So there's certain ways you have to go about doing it. I never took her off of anything. I just started using cannabis for her. And then as she was using it, I noticed the doctors kept taking away medications from her.

So she started with taking multiple medications. At one point, the most I think she was taking at one point was like eight. Jesus Christ. And then it went down to like six and then one. And she's doing well now. She's doing amazing. And how's her body? Oh, she be wilding.

Oh, yeah. She be wilding oh yeah she will tell you every time we're on the phone or if i facetime him or he facetimes me she's gonna pop in that camera and she's like uncle and like she just starts going crazy and he just hypes her yeah that's right you better act like that when your uncle's on the phone like and and she's just so full of life you would never think that she went through all of that. There's never a dull moment. She's always happy. Even when she was a baby in ICU, going through all those things, she was the happiest kid. And the doctors used to come in

and tell me, they're like, you know, we see all these kids. But when we see Kansa, she just lights up the room and her smile and she would still be playful. And they said it would give us the fuel we would need for the rest of the day. And I used to dress her up and put her on these ridiculous hair bows and stuff just to make it fun for her because I didn't want her to feel like she just had to be in the hospital with a hospital gown on, just looking sad and everything. I used to dress her up, do fun stuff with her hair. And the nurses loved it. I used to let them dress her up whenever I would step out and things like that and come back. But it's just looking at her now there's a lot of kids that didn't make it that was transplanted around the time she was and a lot of them don't look like her and there's

doctors that told me they're like she's like the poster child for transplant they're like whatever you're doing is working because these other kids don't look like she does but you know what i want to look what i wanted to know is like all right as a mother right you you have to make that decision on going the full cannabis route right and and really putting your faith into saying you know what this cannabis is medicine i'm going to trust this to work. How was that decision? I mean, I knowing you, I knew it wasn't a big decision, but for other mothers out there that's going through that, what advice could you give them between them having to decide to take medicine from the doctor or going to full cannabis route? That decision wasn't easy, right? It was something that you had to trust. Yeah, it wasn't easy. But I know first and foremost, I trust God. And I always say God

has given us everything we need right here in this earth that we can grow, that heals our bodies naturally, that aligns with us naturally. And this is no different. So I had to make that decision and say, you know, I don't want her to not grow up and be able to do what every other kid. They told me a lot of things that she would not be able to do. They said from a neurological standpoint, she could have possibly had brain damage because she coded several times before she even got her heart. And they were putting her on life support before the call came for her heart. And so I knew that once she was over a certain threshold, I was going to introduce cannabis. Because for one, they have to aggressively suppress their immune system with anti-rejection drugs. And when I say aggressively, I mean,

any little thing they get, any type of virus, any type of infection, it maximizes the potential of them getting that. Just them being in the hospital is a risk because they can get an infection or get exposed to something in the hospital. Just so I understand, Safida, because I'm not a doctor right here, that what you're saying is that because the body's trying to take on a new organ, the body would naturally fight back against it. Yeah, but you can reject it. The only thing that helps younger people, the younger you are getting transplanted, if you're a baby, your immune system hasn't quite developed yet. So that is the one saving grace that they have. But with cannabis, because it reduces that likelihood, because it actually helps the body to receive the organ better,

which was crazy when I found that out. And then of course, it's highly anti-inflammatory. CBG is great for the prevention of cancer as well, because anti-rejection drugs can cause cancer and cardiovascular disease as a side effect, which is crazy. But just knowing that I knew what I needed to do for her, but I had to figure it out. I literally had to create a micro dosing model for her. I had no blueprint. Have you had discussions like with doctors where it's constructive at all, where they're like, oh no, this is working? I've had some conversations with doctors where it's constructive at all where they're like oh no this is working i've had some conversations with doctors that weren't her medical team but because they knew the arena of what i worked with and being in this industry it's like they know but

they're not going to ask but the my reassurance was always them telling me mom whatever you're doing it's working so keep doing it that, whatever you're doing, it's working. So keep doing it. That's actually kind of helpful. That's good to hear. That's a nice silver lining. Yeah. So it was for other moms, back to what you were saying, the advice I would give them is, you know,

it's not going to, it doesn't make you a bad mom. It does not make you, you know, rogue or you're just going against the grain. I would tell them, ask any doctor or even any elected official, if you knew that this would save your child's life, would you deny them? Right. And I know there's not one person on this planet that would say they would deny their child. You know what, though? It goes back to what we've done in society, though, which is create a stigma and a one-size-fits-all thing with this. Because you said there's 170 million people in the electorate who use cannabis in some way. Well, that support, yes.

Over 70% of Americans agree with completely, like, descheduling cannabis. Right. That it shouldn't be illegal anymore. Right. And so we're not doing enough to move that ball forward. But there's still a lot of people who just think of the stigma of like, maybe they don't think weed's a big deal, but they're like, oh, just a regular person smoking weed.

And yet, you know, there's a million use cases here, a million different ways that the actual CBD can be beneficial that are beyond just, you know just someone having a good time. Yeah. And I think the messaging is important. And if you guys can use the movement you're creating to get that messaging, that education, as you were saying, out to more people, maybe that can move the needle a little bit. Yeah, they got to stop following the culture of...

A lot of people follow the culture of cannabis, meaning they see artists and people smoking and the recreational part. They're not doing their education on the medical side of it. That's right. So they got a wrong stigma about it until they educate themselves. And that's why we're here. So what's your guys' main thing right now? Are you literally directly reaching out to potential candidates or people who are in office and what if so what are those conversations like they actually find us like

there's people there's candidates that have reached out and said they want to run under the party oh actually under the party yeah under the party so we we have to get to a point where we can do that. So that's because we're nonpartisan. So we'll support a Democrat or Republican if that's the right person. And they, you know, they're doing the right thing when it comes to the people. But we do want to get to that point where we can run candidates under the party. And there are people who are literally ready to do that. Have you guys gotten any pushback behind the scenes, like people trying to not see this grow? Not really.

That's good. Not really. A lot of people just, not pushback, but some of the support been iffy. It's like, you guys really got a party. We're no different from the Republican or Democratic Party. And they look at that like, wow, that's, okay, you guys really got a party. You guys are running. And then a lot of people are also understanding that we're not capitalizing financially from here.

Everything is out the pocket what we do um we have a lot of people that joined the team and left the team people joined again and left the team where we're down to like just a few um because it's like really hard to be down with something ten toes if you're not getting anything out of it. And our goal is to really surround ourselves with the right people who get it, like who's really going to go out the whole way, who's going to be 10 toes down until we get it descheduled. So a lot of people are afraid.

They're afraid of that journey, that challenge. They're afraid of being recognized politically. You know, like I'm not gonna lie, at first I was afraid, I was like, damn, I'm gonna be a part of something political. You know, in the political positions, it's scary. They don't play. Far as getting in position,

like my boy Do What I Do from newark new jersey just helping him be a councilman in our ward it was it was terror it was like wow they'll bury you alive for that position so um even i was like a little bit shook like yo we really going at it but following sis and how knowledgeable she is and i'm understanding more what it can do for everything that we what what dis scheduling can do for the cannabis industry and being a political party to hold these politicians accountable it makes sense and once you be down once you're down with something with purpose then you get the factor of, all right, listen, all right, whether we getting paid or not, this is, I'm down for purpose of this cannabis

industry. So a lot of people are afraid. A lot of people don't understand. A lot of people want to see where it's going before it gets there. They want us, they want promises like, okay, when it gets there, I hope we get this. And we don't know where it's going to go. Only thing we know is we're in the fight. And we know we have faith that we will get cannabis descheduled. We're trying to make history.

We're not here to be here financially. We're trying to make history. Is that first step, though? Because, like, ideally you want to get it off the schedule and you want to be able to have access to where companies can't control it. But do you think we would be close to the halfway point of like getting it moved from schedule one to, I don't know, like schedule three or something? Um, no, I think it's either deschedule it or leave it where it is because, um, a schedule three would be, that would potentially be the end of the adult use market. So all the people that were able to get licenses through social equity programs and things like that in different states,

they're not a doctor or a pharmacist. So how does a dispensary owner then be able to have a dispensary without having those credentials to be able to dispense and prescribe a Schedule III drug. It won't happen. And it'll still be, you know, it won't be federally decriminalized. So what happens to all those prisoners? So you'll still make money. People will still make money, but people will still sit in prison. Like, I don't think that that is susceptible at all. So we have to just completely deschedule it.

Yeah, unless you just pulled this up right here. You can see. You mentioned some of them already offhand. But you can see what it's scheduled with. It's like, what? Yeah. And also, it's crazy that mushrooms are in there. And then, like, I'm looking at schedule two.

And I see Coke. Got met. Coke got descheduled? I thought it was schedule one at first. They got oxycodone. Schedule two as well. Vicodin, Ritalin. That is fucking wild.

And fentanyl is a schedule two as well. Come on. Yeah, fentanyl's a schedule two. But mushrooms, ecstasy, and cannabis are schedule one. I smell a rat. And cannabis is number one at top of the fucking list. See that? Yeah. It's totally ridiculous. It's absolutely

ridiculous. And that's why we're here. We have to do it. If we don't do something about it, we're going to see this fall into the hands of big pharma and the FDA and then that would just completely change everything. Well, now's the time.

Because now's the time where the most people are paying somewhat attention to this because of what we've seen over the last several years. And like you said, this can be a dual party thing. We can get Democrats and Republicans to support it. So, you know, using your platform to do that, right, also is really cool. Absolutely. Like, I ain't seen this schedule in a while. This pisses me off. Like, methamphetamine is schedule two?

Yeah. Xanax is schedule four. And that's what everyone is on right now. Valium. Yeah, Valium is, yeah. Steroids are schedule three. It, Valium is, yeah. Steroids are Schedule 3. It's crazy. It's insane. Like, you look at it and

even if you know it, you see it and it's like, your mind is blown. How do you... I know. You... No, no, here's the thing. It's in Schedule 1, but you're going to have it above heroin like

you'll come on lsd like ecstasy like how how do you put cannabis in this no no i used to do ecstasy no no you could get some good ecstasy should be like in a five oh my gosh no i ain't gonna lie i had some good eating before now but cannabis at the top of schedule one it's nuts it's not a plant a plant magic mushrooms is schedule one yeah that's also psilocybin as well which is the term for shrooms but yeah that's the schedule one as well and that's a plant and by as well. And that's a plant. And by the way, those are, like, I won't even talk about weed for a second. We'll just talk about psilocybin. That can heal things

that would cost Big Pharma huge money. Oh, absolutely. Do you know how many Tier 1 veterans I've had in here who, on the record and then some off the record, told me about how their PTSD was cured with psilocybin? with psilocybin. And they had to go to, these are the guys that are tip of the spear for us, right?

We're supposed to care about them. They had to go to another fucking country and pay out of pocket, thousands of dollars, whatever it was, tens of thousands of dollars to do it. I'm like, this is crazy. It's because you don't have to do it repeatedly. It's not a subscription money. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. And people who've had mental issues where psilocybin has been very effective yes in dealing with people who have like mental um conditions so yeah i mean if they do if they open it up we can do more research yeah but research does not taint it like where people can actually discover all the ways that these plants can help people. And that's what we're here for. The education can help destigmatize.

Yes. So where, you know, where we can help out in here doing that with stuff like this, I definitely want to do that because that changed the paradigm on some of this stuff for sure. Yeah. And we will, we'll get it done. And, you know, we appreciate being on, you know, your platform to bring awareness and, you know, shed light on this because it's really important. And a lot of, and that's what we need.

Everybody needs to heal. A lot of people can benefit from this. And you don't have to just smoke. It's so many other ways to use it. And even people that think they're using it recreationally, if you ask them why they'll tell you like several different medical reasons why it's helping them you got to get it out of people you're not handing a joint to your daughter to go right exactly well this is going right not at all you gotta you gotta educate a little bit yes absolutely but i'm glad your daughter's doing well that's amazing and obviously

i i can't even imagine i i see the emotion with that. And, you know, for you to, it's like a brave thing, really brave thing for you to do, not just to face it, but also to maybe do the hard thing and do the thing that, you know, zig when everyone else is zagging. Right. And it's turned out really well. So I hope that trend continues. I think one of the hardest things just like for a mother to make that decision. Yes. Like that is like tough. Like you really have to have faith to say, you know what? I'm going to trust this to Yes. Yeah. Like that is like tough. Like you really have to have faith to say, you know what?

I'm going to trust this to work. Yeah. And not to mention, you know how people will look at you, like how people look at you and how people automatically assume things. And, and I always, I don't care about any of that because I knew what it was like to watch my daughter lay on a hospital bed with no life in her body. No heartbeat, not breathing, nothing. Absolutely nothing. So to see her go from that to where she is now, it's like I would do it all over again. And there's every other mom that hears that, like, I'm hoping that them hearing

my story and understanding the decision that I had to make, that they will be brave enough to do the same because there's some conventional medicine that just does not work. You think about children who have epilepsy and different types of autoimmune diseases and things where the medicine doesn't work, cannabis does so why deny somebody that chance and that opportunity almost like it's a cover-up yeah yeah exactly yeah hey sis why don't you uh uh briefly talk about the gaming tournament oh yes come get this smoke no um also Free the Green Cannabis and Gaming Tournament has officially kicked off January 30th. Julian came through. Yes, that's why you were just at it.

We had Tekken 8. Shout out to Bloodhawk, who was the winner of the tournament. SampleMaster. I forget the other guy's name. Don't kill me. But it was great. I always felt like cannabis and gaming, of course, goes hand in hand. I'm a gamer. I come from that world. I'm a blurred black nerd, if for those who don't know what that is. That actually didn't get upstairs.

Yeah. So I've been in the nerd anime gaming community for a while. And I said, there's got to be a way to connect brands to consumers and be able to educate people and go outside the boundaries of the industry. And so I talked to my brother about it. I was like, yeah, like we should really do this. And when we started talking about it more, he was like, you know what? Like, it makes sense. Like a lot of people who play video games usually consume cannabis so right we put it together did free the green um at osnyc shout out to land party space by the way yes yes

i hadn't been there in like six years i'm like this place fucking awesome yes it's turnkey everything's there and we had the gaming community cannabis community animate and crypto like all in one building they were like just checking all the boxes like literally and so to see all these communities mingle together and like you had artists in there discover commentating you had artists in there painting as well oh yes you had a live painter shout out to drain. You had legendary 90s rappers in there. Yes, of course. Mr. Global Noble sitting over there. And we had Nims come through. Nino Man from Harlem.

Hip Hop Gamer, for those that know who he is, and from Hot 97. He's been doing gaming for a long time. So it was a really great crowd of people. And I enjoyed watching him commentate because he was like, wait, you could do this. So he's like,

this is like ESPN. I'm gaming. We're going to start a Twitch stream for you. Right. Live commentating by Redman. Yes. No, it would be funny.

Cause you never know what he's going to say. It would. Cause you don't know what he's going to say. Like at any given moment. And I'm learning at the same time. I'm very inexperienced. so it's going to be funny. Very inexperienced. But it was dope.

The live stream was great. And people came to us afterwards and was like, that was the best event I've ever seen. It was fun, too. That's important. Yes, they had a lot of fun. You got to have entertainment with this stuff. They enjoyed themselves.

We gave away some great prizes. Right. Yeah, you did. gave away some great prizes. Right. You know? Yeah, you did. So, yeah, it was amazing. And we just love to see community. And we were able to share and educate with people who we are and what we're about. And we'll be doing it again April 11th.

All right. Well, let's stick a link for that down there as well. So, if you're in the NYC area, come through. Maybe I'll pull up again, too. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Maybe he'll get on the sticks, y'all. You'll see me.

Nobody wants that. I had like a.08 KD ratio on Call of Duty. It wasn't good. Oh. Yeah. Even he didn't. Well, there is a guy that streams that's not good, and he literally has a following because he's not good.

All right. And he makes a ton of money doing it. Safita, I got enough to fill my day. I don't wanna go out there and completely embarrass myself. I got you. That's all good. But I may pull up to that one. So we'll have that link down there.

But Safida, Redman, thank you so much. This was a blast having you here. Real honor to talk with you. No, we appreciate you, bro. Thank you for having us. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is? Give it a thought.

Get back to me. Peace. Thank you for having us. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is? Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.