Julian Dorey Podcast - #287 - Air Force’s Secret Space Black Project & the Disinfo Agent Psyop | Darcy Weir

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

SPONSORS: 1) Get $10 Off @BRUNT w/ code "JULIAN" at https://www.bruntworkwear.com/JULIAN #BRUNTpod 2) Download DRAFTKINGS CASINO app & use code "JULIAN": https://shorturl.at/e8zhM (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Darcy Weir is a UFO Researcher/Documentary Filmmaker. PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY: INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey DARCY WEIR'S LINKS: - DARCY INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/darcyweirfilms/ - The Underground: Director's Cut: https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/0IIIN7Y65HUKSLSUQACYDVG9VX/ref=atv_pp_tt_0 - Transmedium-Fastmovers--Usos: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/transmedium-fastmovers--usos/umc.cmc.ql1kntt360gkqx3tsnadc12w ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00:00 - 2025’s New UFO Whistleblower’s (Jake Barber), Corey Goode & Cult 00:08:08 - Jason Sands Controversial Account, Debunking Corey Goode, Psychic Programs 00:18:43 - Jason Sand’s Lying About Job, Corey Good’s Compromising “Delusional Truth” 00:32:39 - Luis Elizondo & Chris Mellon Most Legit Disclosure Agents 00:44:06 - Disinformation & Crazy Theories (Breaking Congressional Hearing UAP Disclosure), Julian’s POV on Jason Sands & James Fox Dilemma 01:00:56 - Jason Sand’s PTSD, New Age Christian UFO Group - Corey Good (Cult) 01:13:38 - Proof of Super Secret Space Program = Manned Orbital Program (Secret Black Project) - Sky Lab 3 (INTRO) 01:26:38 - The “Grey’s” (Sex with Aliens), J Allen Hyneck & Wounds from Aliens, John McCain Steps in to Help UFO Experiencer to Get Benefits 01:35:48 - Psy-Op Theory (Story of Jay of Something Crazy is About to Happen) 01:41:30 - UFO Rockstars & Foreign Disinformation Campaign 01:53:23 - Challenges of UAP Disclosure & Social Media Distraction, AI Pros & Cons 02:05:01 - Troglodytes (Ape Like Humans), David Wilcock & Corey Good (Solar Supernova), Heavens Gate Cult, Cult Formations 02:20:02 - Red Flags to See Out in UFO Community, Chris Bledsoe Comments OTHER JDP EPISODES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: - CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian D. Dorey - In-Studio Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@alessiallaman Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 287 - Darcy Weir Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So here's the tricky part. You can be in the right place at the right time to claim something, but to prove all that stuff is impossible. When you have people that come from questionable backgrounds that are pushing ideas that have already been part of the UFO lore for a long time, underground bases, secret space programs, remote viewing and psychic abilities, and you have no proof behind it you're leading people astray i'm curious about what's out there in the universe there's some stuff that i think is supremely bull and then a lot of stuff that i'm like maybe but probably not aliens it's probably something else but there's a lot of people who are like no my whole life is going to be based

on the meaning of the fact that an alien comes down and says hello to me like man that is just not a way to live in In terms of all of the cases that have been represented throughout the history of the subject, if even one of those is true, it's groundbreaking. Yes. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help thank you all right darcy we're welcome back do you need me to hide hide this like a logo or anything you're good let it let it run dude i don't care we'll give starbucks a little love i'm i i'm not one of these guys you know red cup that's probably why i don't make as much money as i should red cups getting the attention

the red cup gets the attention that's all right it's good to have you back though man nice to talk with you thanks buddy good to be here yeah you've been up to some shit since since you were here about a year ago something like that it's It's been wild. It's all connecting up with the insanity of Disclosure right now. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. We'll get to some of the stuff that you just did in your latest documentary, Dark Alliance, on Corey Goode and David Wilcock and Gaia. It's actually really fucking good.

Appreciate it. Especially the second episode. The first one gives a lot of context. I'm like, all right, where are we going? Where are we going? Where are we going? And the second one the first one gives a lot of context i'm like all right where are we going where are we going where are we going and second one i'm like whoa like really blows the whistle on that so for people that aren't familiar with that story we will talk about that today because it it's actually some of it's hilarious and it's also like scary how far some of the stuff went but you and i were just talking off camera as a long time documentary filmmaker for people who weren't familiar with episode 207 when you were last on.

Talked about your career making different films around specifically like the UFO subgenre for sure. It is certainly interesting times right now when it comes to whistleblowers. Yeah, so take a sip of that get ready to roll swish it just wipe my eyes like popping out of my head because we've been screaming at each other for the past hour all right so whistleblowers are the hot thing and there has been a version of that for like the past 20 years in the ufo community they may have not been called whistleblowers though um especially with the cory good and david wilcock story they were called insiders so david wilcock before he brought cory good into the ufo attainment scene

he would say i've got this new insider you know special program military government insider that knows everything about the ufo you know secrecy that's going on and there's space programs with aliens and all this stuff right so people fucking janitor uh cory good no no i'm saying like that's a source is the janitor well we have no idea well at this point he was slowly trickling to the the greater gaia masses because they launched this whole story on gaia tv which is like a very new agey entertainment network that okay this is how they conduct an interview if if you get to know me julian you say hey you know where are you from what's your educational background how'd you get into the ufo community and the stories and stuff there that's a normal way to conduct an interview this is how they do

an interview on gaia tv so you're a secret space astronaut who's battled aliens tell me about that leading questions psychologically yeah like the most ridiculous way to start an interview with somebody ever right do you think darcy do you think that that is a problem though that pervades like you're talking about the specific guy example right now which we'll get to and give context on that later but like do you think that that is also a phenomenon that today now pervades a lot of these when a new whistleblower comes out and people and maybe even including me sometimes will ask questions that are based on what we've heard and not necessarily think about like, well, maybe we should let this guy start off zero here. Yeah. I mean, you'll see it happen on News Nation and Guy tv is still around doing it i mean so you are a new whistleblower on and you've been telling people that you were part of a government program retrieving eggs

tell me about that you know what i mean like ross colthart not it's not very good ross is like a clean for a canadian that was pretty good yeah it's not like crocky might tell me about these eggs they're falling out of the sky it's more just like a very clean and and polished australian accent i can't i'm ross colthart you're watching need to know i don't know anyways it's kind of britishy but um yeah i think like there's a bit of leading that happens there uh i think jake barber is who he says he is and has been people that don't know who jake barber is can you just explain uh basically to sum it up real quick a special operations helicopter pilot that um you know worked at a test range and recently said that he was involved with a crash craft retrieval not a crash craft but

a non-human intelligence craft retrieval on a test range where government vehicles are being tested. That's the other thing. He even said there are things that we see flying there every day that if a normal person had seen them, they would be like blown away by the capabilities of these crafts. So, you know. But yeah, there is i i worry that we are going off into ufo attainment land too often and we're instead of it being ufo fact and information it's entertainment that's masquerading as factual information.

And it's been a problem for decades. I mean, with the Corey Goode and David Wilcock thing, they set up the whole UFO community to believe this story about a secret space program right program is a pretty popular name in a documentary title right now and in that secret space program people were being taken at a young age they were being put through these um special training systems to become a super soldier and fight aliens in space for 20 years. And then they come back and they have a special technology to regress their bodies back to the age of 16 to live out the rest of their life in their normal, boring human lives here on earth and so cory good talked about doing that on the

guy a tv network for three seasons and each season he was like well i went on another 20 and back so he lived 60 years in the future fighting aliens in space reptilians and a lot of that stuff connects up with somebody who's been talking publicly recently about whacking aliens being part of a 20 and back like program and that's setting off alarm bells and you're talking about j Jason Sands, who's on the show. Yeah, let's address the 500-pound elephant in the room here. Yeah. Not that I really want to take on a 500-pound elephant myself, but I'm a little too small for that.

Hey, listen, if we make you the 51st state, you'll do damn well what we tell you to do. Okay. Yes, sir. Please. little too small for that but listen if we make you the 51st state you'll do damn well what we tell you to do okay yes sir please um so when jason sands first hit the scene i was like up to my neck in editing this docu-series called dark alliance and a friend sent me this twitter space link said hey this is james's new whistleblower he's doing a live space right now you should jump in and ask him some questions i'm like holy crap right and i appreciate james fox i think he's done some great things to push this subject forward i think he covers really cool information most of it factual yeah but when i heard jason sand speak for the first time and i was invited

up into this space alarm bells went off and i was like oh what the f because he was saying things and validating the 20 and back storyline in that very debut interview that he did on a Twitter space in April of 2024 saying that he had been a part of something like that yes and I like this other dude who I don't know if he really believes that stuff he asked the question earlier on in the space. And if you look up his Twitter profile, he says he's like a comedian. So I'm like, is this guy, was he like gaslighting or was he honestly believing in that? I'm like, did, does not everybody know about this 20 and back LARP? Like it's full, fully blown BS at this point. So I jump up and I'm like, Hey, Jason, uh, just for clarity, you did mention in 20 and back before, can you tell me a bit more about that?

Are you validating what Corey Goods said? And he was like, yeah, I don't really want to go into it that much, but, uh, yeah, you know, I, I served in something like that. So we didn't call it 20 and back, but I served in something like that. Like, I heard he's going to be in your doc, and I'm just concerned because this is looking mighty shady. If you look at his DD214, it says basically his job was human intelligence. Like, sure, he probably did work at the Nellis Air Force Base during the 90s. But it doesn't say that he did the things that he's saying he did right now, like intercepting calls from possible alien communications with the Air Force Base personnel, like the top brass or whatever that are there it does say yeah and i want to reiterate what you're saying here because we had a chance to see the physical

records when he was in here with james the word and and he didn't claim it did either at least like when we were here the word alien or anything like that or the term area 51 doesn't appear on there what what i will say he is backed by is the places he says he was like in the military as far as the broad like, no, it's Air Force Base and I did this or he is right about that. That's real. But please continue. Last year, I went down to the Amazon jungle to visit my friend Paul Rosalie, which you've heard me talk about on the podcast before. I also talked about on my boy, John Rondy's podcast and told the whole story. But if there was one regret I had about that two week trip, it was the footwear that I packed. So I bought these Nike like cross trainers. They're not running shoes or comfort shoes like I was used to buying. It was something

that was like supposed to be good for going into the mountains and stuff like that. But really, my feet were just blistered the whole time. And I wish back then I had known about Brunt work boots. These things are so comfortable and they take almost no time to break in. So whether you need work boots for your job and the different sites you go to or if you like hiking or anything that could call for boots, you can now wear something as durable and as comfortable as your sneakers. Brunt's best-selling Marin work boots are not only built for the toughest terrains, they're also completely waterproof.

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Like I said before, Brunt lets you try all their products on the job risk-free. After you purchase, they're gonna ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them that I sent you. So here's the tricky part. You can be in the right place at the right time to claim something but to prove all that stuff is impossible so in his position you could say he was human intelligence which means he was basically walking around the base informing personnel that the data that they're collecting on their computer their phones whatever in terms

of signals going in and out is government property this is classified stuff he can't do this he can't do that that's the type of thing he could have been actually doing but he's saying he did this right yes and so that's where it gets really tricky and people start to think okay is this stolen valor which is like LARPing on top of what your actual position was and what you actually can prove you did. And I think it's dangerous because all of these types of things we've seen in the Corey Goode, David Wilcock, Dark Alliance story play out. Meaning like the claims and stories he's telling, they all tie back to the thing that you happen

to be researching extensively at the very time that this is coming out yes so that's why the alarm bells were going off it was syncing up so many things that he was claiming were just like what cory good did so we can track cory good launched his character as this secret space program super soldier, basically. He launched it off of all of these tropes and themes that were already existent and powerful within the UFO community. So, for example, he talks about being taken at a young age, 16-ish, maybe younger, and inducted into this, like, secretive training program to become a secret space astronaut and to battle aliens in space and be a protector of the planet, right? And join the Galactic Federationeration of good aliens to defend humanity right very buck rogers type stuff that might be a really old uh people can look up buck yeah yeah i'm familiar sci-fi character from like the 1960s so he makes all these claims but that like sort of

um being taken in and he also said he was like psychic and had these abilities and they were molding his psychic abilities to do certain things stargate program with russell targ and actually pulling people in to a cia and dia you're talking about the remote viewing program yeah yeah that is real but that had to do with adults and i spoke i'm actually working on a project right now regarding psychic abilities and esp and you know possible non-human intelligence interactions with psychics. You know, so I believe that people have innate psychic abilities, and I believe that it's proven on paper through those programs, Stargate program and such, to be credible.

So Corey Goode is at a very early age. In 2015, he starts showing up on a message board on a website called Project Avalon. It's like the 4chan before 4chan, but for really deep conspiracy theory stuff. creating message groups and and interacting with each other are just going rabbit hole deep on like underground bases secret space programs um remote viewing and psychic abilities and the guy who set up that website his name is bill ryan he started up an earlier site that was very similar called project camelot with carrie cassidy and he saw cory good starting to announce himself as this secret space program you know uh super soldier dude on the forums and he starts tracking all of this guy's ip address because every time you log into

the site you have a certain ip he starts tracking that cory goode was going to all those hot topics and he's mining all of these popular themes all these popular conspiracy ufo ideas and he's putting them into one character that he's launching on the forum because they track that IP going to underground bases. They track that IP going to secret space program. They track that IP going to, you know, uh, child soldier site, psychic stuff. Right. And early on Bill Ryan launched a essay on the forum and said, Hey, I don't believe this guy because I've been watching his activity on my forum, blah, blah, blah, blah. He seems to be like creating this story off of things that are already existing.

And long story short with that, Corey Goode had already blown up and become super popular everybody in the community was believing him and getting behind him they wanted to believe they wanted to believe and that's the thing like we want to believe all this stuff i want to believe that there's a galactic federation out there but there's absolutely no friggin proof right right? We do know that there's UFOs, but are those being piloted by, you know, reptiles or Arcturians or, you know, the Ebens from Sirius B or whatever? I don't know. Like, we need proof of that. Yes. The claims that go that far are the dangerous claims that everybody get absorbed in in the ufo community

and become believers right they don't become skeptics of these things and so you see that happening with jason sands right now because he's essentially saying all these things that I've seen already in the community. For example, the whole idea of intercepting communications between alien intelligence off base and personnel on base, like generals or commanders or whatever the fuck he got at the Nellis Air Force Base that is basically Paul Benowitz he was intercepting signals if you read project beta and you go down this whole Rick Doty rabbit hole Rick Doty was sent out to intercept Paul Benowitz, who ran his own commercial private airport in Nevada, which is close to Kirkland Air Force Base. He started intercepting signals, and he believed that it was alien communications with a base somewhere out there and it eventually they point him towards the archuleta mesa in dulce new mexico and that's how the whole dulce new mexico underground base story started right because of paul benowitz and he was getting that information from an air force osi agent

rick dodie who said this is where the signals are coming from yeah that could have been counterintelligence that could have been rick being like told go intercept this guy who has received these signals and tell him it's here instead of kirkland air force base do you know what i mean yeah so we've heard that story already jason has built that into his backstory then when did he first do that was that was that all the way back on that first space or did that come later he said that on that first space okay and this is in april april 2024 so i'm like what the like is no one seeing this add up like connecting to these other conspiracy popular theories the other thing is we have that popular ufo video from i think it's 1992 the

nellis air force base ufo it's a fleer camera video. This thing looks really odd. That's been out there for a long time. There's no backstory to that. There's no amazing, you know, sensational thing you can say about it. It's just a really interesting UFO video. And this guy comes forward and basically claims it in James Fox's documentary. He says, well, I actually saw it land and saw a blue alien come out of it wait hold on back up one second i think he's the actual sighting that from 92 or 90 i think it was 93 whatever it was the same thing well that was a separate thing

from the actual blue alien story the blue alien story was that he was in the desert out there and he in a caravan of I think three other cars everyone run episode 267 see if it was three or four and they came upon this blue alien who was coming from a craft that had some damage he wasn't saying that as far as I know that that was the same craft looking for tritium or something the tritium Yeah, I mean What I'm saying is It's glomming on to an already recognized you a UFO or UAP video that we all have seen in the community

And adding a story on top of it That's sensational that we can't actually prove we can't right we can't yes that's right so you know maybe you could say okay this guy's telling the truth about that but he's telling the truth about 20 and back which we know is actually untrue uh you saw the doc series cory good admitted in a deposition a court deposition oh that was amazing where you're not allowed to lie under oath in a court proceeding he says when he's presented by the lawyer uh i think it's lynd. Lyndon, who was representing Leon Isaac Kennedy, African-American Hollywood actor

that got pulled into this legal battle thing. And we'll talk about the whole legal battle stuff. Yeah, yeah. Because that's still going on today. Yeah. And I hope that this doesn't become a legal battle with me in the Sands camp. But you basically have that lawyer saying so did you

actually go to space and fight aliens and do that serve in this 20 and back thing this was incredible and cory says what do you mean physically and he says yeah did you go into space? Because Corey had spent like the past pretty much 20 years or 10 years, sorry, with regards to the Gaia character and, you know, all of these documentaries he did post leaving Gaia with David Wilcock saying, yeah, I'm the real deal. I'm a secret space astronaut and a super soldier which he looks like none of those right like i don't if you believe i'm a secret space astronaut or super soldier good luck right like i'm dead in both scenarios pretty quickly so then uh he admits okay i never went physically it was part of my meditative process oh it was worse than that dude remember the quote he says you have it in the day it's incredible he goes i don't even have the exact one but i have the word he used he goes that was my delusional truth it was it was a part of my delusion and the lawyer had to ask him like two or three times to clarify that okay so as a delusion therefore that is not something that

physically happened he goes it happened in a spiritual what it's like in my meditative yeah like an out-of-body meditative process that was incredible that is not what he was selling all those that's right years before he said i did this he was saying was physical yes like i was an astronaut like buzz aldrin or you know these real air force pilots that risk their lives to go into you know a no gravity environment and go to the moon and such like this guy is larARPing. He's live action role playing. And so I'm seeing these parallels in the Jason Sands story because, you know, I asked him in that premiere space, have you been, have you ever heard of an underground base or been to an underground base? And he said, oh i've i've been in an underground base facility i'm like wow okay the very first documentary i ever made was about phil schneider about a guy who claimed he was in an underground base and he lost his fingers from getting into a battle

with aliens yeah post documentary the program coming out unless he's like i don't have enough weed yeah yeah jason sands says in a space that he was sent on a in a crack squad unit to go into a cave which is exactly what phil schneider said he was doing going into a cave underground and jason says he was hired to whack eight foot tall crab aliens yeah i believe he said this on post-disclosure podcast yeah yeah december 18th yeah so i'm like that's phil schneider yeah right you're late this whole time especially cause you're working on this Corey good documentary and Gaia and seeing how he LARP to pull these things together this whole time. You're like the Leo meme where you're like,

wait a minute. I know that that's yeah. That's it. Right. But I'm like, you know, people don't listen to me. I say this stuff like in spaces and i'm doing like this

weekly kgra radio show uh every gra every wednesday it's just web radio uh they asked me to have this and i figured out a way i was like okay why don't we bring twitter spaces into the radio feed and then you can also save that as like a podcast on Spotify and Spreaker and all that stuff. So I had Jason Sands in it. When was this? He was in about four weeks ago. And this is after he started talking about whacking the eight foot tall crab aliens and i'm like dude i you know just speak to him look he's a really nice guy i think he's a good person deep down i don't think he wants to hurt anybody but you know if you believe in this like maga movement make america great. I believe when you're in the UFO community and you're believing these sensational stories,

you are making America dumb again. And so I got you. I'm talking to this guy and I'm like, dude, how can you prove, like you're saying you're killing aliens now that just doesn't like when was this how did it happen and it gets very blurry and wishy-washy and he announces in that space and my friend andy who uh could not be here shout out andy he was here last time andy

marshall andy marshall good guy he's a little pissed off at me right now why is he pissed off here with us today. Andy. He was here last time. Andy Marshall. Andy Marshall. Good guy. He's a little pissed off at me right now. Why is he pissed off at you? How could he ever be pissed off at you? I slept past a phone call that he was supposed to arrive today

and, you know, I woke up to being called a punk bitch. But, um, it's all good. It's great. I've been called worse. And I love the guy. He's all good it's great i've been called worse and i love the guy he's a good guy he means well hey listen we're he's a new yorker i'm a new jersey or that's that's how we talk sometimes don't take it personally long islander probably even more intense but anyways so he

you know was in this space and he was also like andy is an experiencer i do not discount people have had real experiences with either ufos or maybe even darpa last year i went down to the amazon jungle to visit my friend paul rosalie which you've heard me talk about on the podcast before i also talked about on my boy john ronnie's podcast and told the whole story. But if there was one regret I had about that two-week trip, it was the footwear that I packed. So I bought these Nike, like, cross trainers. They're not running shoes or comfort shoes like I was used to buying. It was something that was, like, supposed to be good for going into the mountains and stuff like that. But really, my feet were just blistered the whole time.

And I wish back then I had known about Brunt work boots. These things are so comfortable and they take almost no time to break in. So whether you need work boots for your job and the different sites you go to or if you like hiking or anything that could call for boots, you can now wear something as durable and as comfortable as your sneakers. Brunt's best-selling Marin work boots are not only built for the toughest terrains, they're also completely waterproof. Whether it's rain, mud, or standing water, your feet stay dry. And the best part is Brunt knows they have the best products and they're willing to back it up with a guarantee. If you don't like

the work boots after you try them on your work site, you can send them back with free shipping. Brunt didn't just make a durable work boot, they reinvented comfort for the hardest workers out there. For a limited time, our listeners and viewers can use the link in the description below to get $10 off at Brunt by using code JULIAN at checkout. Just head to bruntworkwear.com, link in description below, and use code JULIAN and you're all set. Like I said before, Brunt lets you try all their products on the job risk-free. After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them that I sent you. The people that are on board the craft, the things that are piloting these, who knows, right?

Maybe there's some DARPA craft out there as well. That's right. I don't discount Andy's experience. So Andy is pissed off because he's starting to add things up too. As an experiencer, he's like, I'm feeling like this guy's just taking advantage of the ufo community and he's confronting uh jason sands yeah and all of a sudden jason announces that he's indigenous that he's like native american when was this i don't know anything about that it was like a month ago and this was but he came and saw me on january 11th that

saturday we put it out on the 15th and the 17th the two podcasts was this before that yeah okay yeah i missed that and so this native american lady is in the space and she's claiming he's part of her tribe. And I'm friends with somebody who was an analyst serving to the UAP task force. And this individual said when we did a background check on him, his mom is like Norwegian and his dad is like British descent. Other way around. Okay. Other way around okay other way around british and norwegian yeah that's what he said when he was in here he talked about that he said my mom was a british woman and he didn't mention the descent of his dad but his dad was an american soldier oh okay so he's announcing this space because this woman says like, look, we have been like experiencing ant people and like all kinds of ant people. Well, that's like part of the is it the Navajo or the Hickory?

You're looking at me like I'm going to know. I don't know. The people in like the Nevada area have like tales of, you know, creation stories and entities that are non-human that have interacted with them around that area. Okay. So I'm not discounting that, but all of a sudden he's getting this support when we're confronting him on this thing. And she's like, you can't, you can't say that about him, that he's making this stuff up because this is part of our indigenous background uh and i'm like the crab aliens that he whacked the crab aliens yeah which is i mean i don't know if that's becomes ant people or whatever but i'm like it's two different things and so i'm just like seeing this all becoming this like massive UFO construct that he's able to speak to on all these different levels from his character. And it sounds so much like all these other conspiracy theories that have happened in the past in the

ufo community okay and so that was my you know that's my still my major hang-up and i'm just worried that you know you have real whistleblowers that have come forward like lou elzondo we like here's the difference we can prove christopher mellon and lou elzondo worked together chris and him they declassified some clips of credible uap videos during the time that atip was happening and lou leaked those you know took them to to Leslie Keene, Ralph Blumenthal, that ends up. Well, Chris did. Yeah, Chris, sorry. But we know that he worked, right, for the Pentagon.

He was doing all this stuff. We know that Christopher Mellon met him that way. And so you have somebody like Christopher Mellon who can validate that person. Right. Quick question. Yeah. Cause I just had Lou in here and by the way, you were the guy who originally got him in here. So thank you for that. But we had a chance in the second episode, we just did what you haven't seen because I put it out five minutes ago, literally before we got on camera, but we went pretty deep on some of the A-tipip stuff i'm sure there will still be hanging questions that people are like oh you didn't get to this didn't get to that but

there's a lot of controversy there about people that try to claim whether it be like the green street crowd or even people that aren't stephen green street like oh no luat this program wasn't real it's a fictionalization harry reid signed this fake memo or whatever so just from a journalistic standpoint when you say we have proof that lou and chris work together what are you basing that off of just so we have that for the record chris's testimony okay right like uh if we didn't have somebody that could verify Lou is who he is, then I would be like, red flag, right? We have somebody that was, you know, Christopher Mellon, Harry Reid. These people were discussing that there is a treasure trove, a mountain of video and documented evidence of uap interactions and that the stuff that came out through them those videos is just the tippity tip tip tip of the tippity iceberg you

know what i mean so there's a lot of stuff we don't know and we can verify that person, but we don't have any personnel that can verify Jason Sands. We just have a video that he's attached himself to the Nellis Air Force Base UFO video. Meaning verify that he worked on something like an Area 51 or yeah okay yeah we can't like there's you know and that's where and then you know it just comes back to we've heard this stuff before yes cory good and david wilcock they launched their insiders back in 2017 18 they were saying these guys they were part of this secret space program working with aliens and these were like the what we were referring to is like the janitors or whatever earlier well pete peterson was an elderly man you'll see you know people go and watch the documentary we go back and we look at these quote-unquote insiders and that was senile they were saying i mean straight up you got jay widener who was the head of production at the time at gaia

tv right and he was like we would film for eight hours straight with pete peterson and we would get out 20 minutes of usable footage yeah it was driving him insane because they would be talking about some headband that pete peterson supposedly created by taking parts from a broken microwave the headband could read your thoughts and then transfer all that intelligence to the next person that wore the headband if read your thoughts and then transfer all that intelligence to the next person that wore the headband if your brain got scanned i'm just like paraphrasing this right yeah and and your boy what was the name of the witness again the head of production jay widener so you know you obviously did this extensive interview with him that is

most of the setting that i think episode one was like setting all the context which is very important episode two is where it gets wild everyone so we'll have the link to the documentary down below but what he was very respectful about it too he was like you know the guy is dead now he's not here to defend himself or anything and i don't i don't want to talk about him in a negative light i also don't think that it's necessarily like in any way an evil thing in that you're talking about someone who had a natural in my opinion age related he was obviously not all there anymore so it felt like to this guy that he was being taken advantage of and to me the evidence on that that you just presented but that you go through in the documentary it's

it seems pretty clear yeah it was for the sake of ufo attainment yes for entertaining the community and building this like crazy story that uh would entertain people that we're looking for more answers and we're all looking for more answers right uh anna paulina right luna oh yeah the congresswoman and luna paulina luna yeah yeah she's hinting at that there's going to be some huge disclosure coming up in the next like week she's so hot and she's hot there's like a it's a double whammy of of amazingness there is she gonna like let us see the jfk files uh is it and like people have already asked is this to do with aliens like you know and she said it's bigger than that that's that's cool

that's al gore level baby whoa yeah well let's not go there so essentially um we all want answers. But what happens is when there's a lack of answers, there's this vacuum and people can enter the vacuum and entertain new wild ideas with literally no proof or facts behind them. And the whole community eats them up. They get defensive of the person i've been attacked for being a critic of jason sands and cory good i've had uh a dude call me up on a video call after dark lines got released and was pacing back and forth in this call with me he was visually upset physically because i was saying the secret space program this version of it this new age secret space program is bs you know and he was upset because he's got a conference that's coming up oh god and he wants people to attend that and

buy tickets and all this stuff and i'm like that's the problem man i'm like dude i'm sorry that you're upset about my documentary the other really weird thing in the opening of that conversation he says i didn't even watch your documentary because i know you're wrong oh jesus great dude thanks for um you know this is darcy at least informing yourself of what my argument is this is the problem there's two things that are where the rubber meets the road right here that are both equally bad and when they're put together it is a nuclear bomb of bad and that is religion and business when you make something religious where your entire life is based on i want to believe i want to believe so i do believe no matter what and la la la la la don't tell me anything that's against what i fucking believe and then on top

of that you create a monetary incentive for yourself to continue down that road i mean this is where the word grifter this is the where the word charlatan comes in and it's understandable and like look i see i i understand that there's people in this space because i'm fascinated with it that get mad at the debunkers and everything and yes sometimes the debunkers have been beat up so much that like they're not nice i i will say that yeah but you know people seem to care about that so much i don't really give a shit about that i'm like it's a necessary evil to the balance necessary will yeah because people run out of control with this stuff and i also i i want darcy to keep going here i know people are thinking because obviously

like i had jason sands in and there's a lot to go there like i'll give my thoughts i just want darcy to go through everything then you and i can kind of converse on that and analyze that but please continue so you know you've got the community that is really amped up about possible further disclosure that's coming we've had the uap hearings i was at the one on november 13th 2024 and that was awesome you know i was sitting in the actual hearing where they are discussing topics that are being recorded into the congressional record for the first time. Things like a hybrid program implicating that there's abductions and humans being taken by non-human intelligence and our genes and our dna being mixed who was saying this it was uh one of the senators uh one of the guys was asking about this near the end of the that narrows it down yeah i can't remember like exactly they talked about underground and underwater like ocean-based bases and stuff like, you know, we discussed in Transmedia, right?

The last time I was on. Back there, Danny Sheehan's like. Danny, good old Danny. And so, you know, we're at this precipice where it's being taken seriously and we need to get to the facts we need to sort of stay on this trajectory that stays scientific and fact-based because if we go completely off the deep end or into the deep end of this uh conspiracy space we lose sight of logic and we don't know the difference between a charlatan and somebody who's actually representing the truth properly and trying to put us on the right track and like i said make america dumb again or make america great again it's like

choose your path do you think we've already jumped into that deep end now totally yeah and there's people that are so invested with their belief system within the ufo community that they will not and i mean jay widener discusses this discusses this in dark alliance and i've even had people reach out to me post publishing the documentary and been like why did you even platform jay widener and i'm like because he told the truth he told his experience of being a head of production producing these tv shows for gaia entertainment and that is a really interesting perspective. People are tuning into that show thinking this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Right. But they're losing sight that they're being entertained on ideas that are theories or just, you know, possibly even science fiction.

That's literal. No, literal science fiction. Yeah. Let's call it what it is yeah and um so that's concerning because the galactic federation where have we heard that before every time i say that out loud i just i feel like i lose brain cells it hurts yeah some people um other people get that woo and they're like so they get like a serotonin rush they're like yeah galactic federation jean-luc picard the fucking vulcans

you know what i mean like it's it's straight up that's out of star trek. Yeah. You know, that's what the humans end up becoming. They become part of a galactic federation with, I don't know, the Vulcans are part of it. And eventually the Klingons join. But at one point, they're adversaries before that. And, you know, there's all kinds of, I'm trying to think if there's reptilians in there. No, the reptilians are bad right like the reptilians are the kardashians basically these like gray skinned like badass alien human humanoid looking dudes but okay and you got the romulans don't leave out the romulans uh so all of these things existed in science fiction before they even worked

their way into um ufo attainment like the reptilians being bad was launched in the 1960s captain kirk fights has a physical fight with a reptilian named zorn yeah whenever the word reptilian comes out of someone's mouth they instantly start to lose me it's like it's so funny to see what's going on right now like in terms of the whistleblowers that are coming forward and then the the ufo community that was pre-existing you know david ikey british man yes he's pissed yeah he's pissed because joe rogan had jason sands on and platformed the idea of reptilians that was part of the discussion he never had me yeah he's like this this bloody wanker he has he's known about me for about 20 bloody years and i've been talking about the monarchy being reptilians

and these reptilians enslaving humanity and our minds and psyche and he has bloody jason sanz on and i like retweeted that because i like it's it's brilliant uh it's it's wild and there's like an old guard in the ufo community that's feeling challenged right um you see that with lou yes he's somebody that's coming forward and validating a lot of these ideas that existed already in the UFO community. And then you got people like Stephen Greer standing up and being like, he's a disinformation agent. He said he was in counterintelligence. He's hired to like totally take us down the wrong path and yeah the same guy who goes on the sean ryan show and says 20 years ago the cia offered me two billion dollars was it eight billion to whatever two billion dollars yeah to go away and if i didn't take it they'd kill me but here i am

on the sean ryan show 20 years later telling you about it not life he's he's got a dead man's trigger that's why come on it's all about that dead man's trigger they're worried about killing them and then all those files getting released um yeah so that is the old guard challenging the new guard of whistleblowers but then at the same time you also have in my opinion people that probably mean well that probably want to push this subject forward but in the things that they're saying that are untrue they're going to make a mockery of the subject and they're actually going to take us back a few steps yeah i think that's happened i i think i think we're past that point and you know i like to look at things on a case-by-case basis i am very skeptical of things i hear that involve anything like experiences and stuff like that. I

mean that in a respectful way. It's just, you know, I know, statistically, most of those claims, almost all of them are probably some other explanation. But, you know, with Jason, you haven't had a chance to see the one I did with him yet. But I didn't know anything about the guy other than the base story he had told on that space or whatever. And I think this is a good time to also clear this up for people. I've put out some videos on X and on Instagram, but there's people who are only watching on YouTube who haven't heard me comment on any of this stuff and what we did with him in episode 267 and even 266 before that with James. But, you know, the reason I did that podcast, I wouldn't have had Jason in alone. I did that podcast because James called me. It was shortly after Christmas. And what had happened was this. He put

the Jason Sands being in the program that was going to be coming out, as you already laid out in this conversation, that story came out in April. And you laid out where you came in and started poking holes in the story. And you laid out that you did talk to James and stuff like that. And I remember you mentioning that to me back at the time. But James had been brought this guy by multiple different people, sources that have brought him good stuff in the past. One of them, he did not tell me who they were. One of them, I think he said on Joe Rogan, if people can go fact check this, please go do that. But when they were talking about Jason Sands. Chris M mellon yes i believe chris mellon and i think chris

mellon means well i think yeah totally i mean chris was his he went through the ontological shock that david grush talks about i've been through the same shit i told you about in the last uh interview we did it's kind of pathetic to even think back, but it's a joke in itself. I'm working a dead end job as a travel insurance salesman at the age of 20. And I'm coming back from that nine to five soul sucking job, watching UFO conspiracy videos online and like not even being able to being able to get to sleep because i'm like if this is real everything in reality is a fucking matrix and we're living a lie you know and so christopher mellon is in a place of power working for the pentagon in a defense perspective, and he's being shown credible UAP videos from military and defense, you know, let's say intelligence sources and such. And he's like, holy crap, right? This is real. We need to tell the world, right? So I think he means well, I hope to speak with him eventually one day in person i think he's a good guy but you know some melon he is he's a melon and that's another point of contention with uh greer right greer goes

ah the melon banker family have enslaved all of humanity or the united states seems like a stretch but i mean yeah it's a little too much it's uh a step too far in my opinion because prove it yeah um so yeah i think we got that okay out of the way i think he was one of the people that vetted jason sands yeah that was what that was i believe that's what james said on that episode with rogan that came out on christmas eve but here's the context people need to know because there was there was false information going around about this on the internet that i also felt compelled to defend james on because it wasn't fair james was brought jason like james was working on the program for over two years and the documentary was basically done and then the jason thing gets brought to him by these people one of which may

have been chris mellon and the story to james right away was like i don't know about this one and they're like we think this happened and so james made a gut call and was like all right these guys brought me good stuff in the past fuck it i'll get them on camera we'll let people decide i don't have any problem with that now when then j when his name got leaked by accident which james explained how that happened it was actually his fault he accidentally took a picture where jay sands was on the board like that that name slate right and so when that happens jason didn't get mad or anything he's like all right so jason comes public on this space in april which is where you came in and asked these questions and we're like wait a minute i'm seeing some shit i don't like here because it was

based on the stuff you were studying with gaia so james decides to say fuck it and put him you know he had recorded him on camera we'll include this in the documentary documentary comes out december 16th the christmas eve episode with joe rogan james recorded on the 17th i know that he texted the picture to alessi and i like that day when he was doing that so i know for a fact he did that yeah they discussed jason for like 20 minutes on that podcast right and the reason the dates here matter is because this this is where false information was going around at no point had james ever in any vetting or in speaking with jason recording with jason anything or people who were speaking on behalf of jason saying you should include him at no point had anyone ever mentioned anything about killing a fucking alien

or intergalactic federations or anything like that crab alien yeah exactly eight foot tall crab aliens in a cave so this is now december 16th documentary comes out december 17th he records with rogan december 18th jason goes on i believe it was called post-disclosure podcast and suddenly claims the crab alien thing which you described earlier that's ufo jesus yeah right and then also goes on spaces reiterates this gets barbecued by some military guys especially and like you listen to that and you're like okay i get it yeah and they're bullying him now and now dare they bully him he's a soldier you know and that's that's where people get their backs up and start yes trying to it's like dude you they're military guys and they're saying –

This is crazy. Yeah. Now, I'm going to get to Jason. But with James, now this is where it's my interpretation because James – one thing about him and I respect the fuck out of this. When it comes to sources or how he looks at specific things things on his opinion he plays a lot close to the chest and that is how you should be in that space and i respect that so this is my read on it and alessi and i've talked about this a bunch this seems to be both of our reads on it alessi goes way back with james who's make a moment of contact with him in 2021 he was in brazil right so i think Right. So I think James felt – I don't know if I want to use the word betrayed, but he definitely felt like –

He was misled. He was misled. Okay. This is my opinion. He didn't say this to me, but this is what I think. And he already thought the story was tenuous at best, and once it got to the guys claiming suddenly that like you know he was a part of whack and aliens james was like this is this seems like bullshit and and he did publicly say this too at the time when that came out on twitter he was like if he did when he found when someone told him he had claimed this jason had claimed this he said if that's true that does

really hurt his credibility so fast forward all this information is going around where people are saying, James knew about this and decided not to include his documentary. That's all bullshit. James calls me up shortly after Christmas. He and I had a previously scheduled podcast to do together. Yeah. And he floated to me. And by the way, I didn't call him about this Jason Sand stuff because it's not my job or

business to call my friend and be like, you know, whatever. Nor it is mine. But I was sitting up at night like be like, you know, whatever. Nor it is mine. But I was sitting up at night like, oh, I can't believe this got included in there. Like, fuck. Like, I feel so bad for him. So he calls me up and he says this. I'm like, James, I'm really glad you called me because I've been biting my tongue on this. And he goes, yeah, I know why.

And he goes, now, just hear me out here. You do not have to say yes to this. What would you say about him coming in with me and sink or swim and i i thought i said let me think about this overnight or whatever i felt more comfortable that it was james going to be in here with him and also i felt compelled to give james a chance to be able to be distanced from the story publicly like as a friend and for someone who works so hard to get credibility over so many years yeah i felt like that that was like a moral obligation so that i called him i know what i saw with uh you know the phoenix lights amazing

documentary out of the blue out of the blue you know i was a kid watching that stuff and was like oh my god aliens are real and you know that was probably me crying asleep before i go to my insurance sales uh job right so thanks james but you know and then moment of contact the phenomenon like these are all amazing contributions to you know providing evidence that something is going on yes did you know prior to that jason sands and fox uh interview that like james was gonna be like i'm i'm walking no and and here here's what i'm gonna get to i called him the next day after he had that was on a saturday i was in the studio when he called me and and brought this up and i said let me sleep on i called him the next day i said all right we'll

do it and i was like we're just gonna do it live like always which is exactly what it was I never talked to James again other than texting him for scheduling before that but before we sat down James did come into town that we record on Saturday the 11th he came into town I didn't see him on Friday the 10th I was actually out of town and I know he and Jason had a chance to talk and I thought that was fine. As long as I wasn't a part of it, that's fine. And again, like he's trying to get his bearings here. So he comes in here. Obviously we're all great friends. We're having a great time. We chilled for a little while. I got a chance to meet Jason and whatever. And I, my thought process was, I just want to get to know this guy. I want to know maybe why he could be saying the things he is. Maybe he is just a hardcore pathological liar looking for attention. Maybe there's something more to it. So we sit down, we record, we do the first hour and a half. Most of it is covering the program. We did a little bit where I did have a chance to see the physical records of Jason's military career, which was helpful because it can be like, okay, well. The DD-214.

Yeah, I guess. So, you know, that was good. But then we took a quick break and I'm like, all right, James, when we go back in there, we're basically just going to go to a story. He's like, great. And that was that. That's what we did. And I said to Jason right before we came in here, I said, Jason, I want you to have the free reign to tell your story.

I'm going to pepper you with questions sometimes when it gets to things that are highly controversial. I hope you're okay with that. He's like, yeah, yeah, no problem. I said, I'm not sure if this stuff happens, but I want you to have your say. And that was it. So we come in, and I knew nothing knew nothing darcy about this guy's childhood had never heard a damn thing about it the only thing i'd ever really heard was that space and then i saw that post-disclosure podcast where he made like the aliens claims or whatever and

the first 36 minutes of that of episode 267 which was the Jason one, we got deep on his background as a child and the severe trauma that he endured throughout his entire childhood. Suffered. Suffered, yes. And it was – You wouldn't wish this on your enemy. That's right. And it was really heavy. And I feel for him on that.

I did too, and I felt a real kinship to him, and so did James. And I feel for him on that. I was like, in my head, I'm going, oh, I think this is making sense now. Now, I'm not a doctor. I make that very, very clear. So there's a line here that I'll stop at. But I have spoken with a lot of people in this studio who are open about having been diagnosed by doctors with PTSD and explaining what that is. And I'm very, very used to tracking that. And Jason said that he has been diagnosed with it by multiple doctors and psychiatrists himself as well on the podcast. So I saw that and I know some of the

symptoms of this because when the guy's talking to you and he gets to even some of the crazy stories, I knew in my head how he had told these and they line up well. And he didn't talk to you like when someone's talking to you where they're literally making it up as they go. There's a thing. I mean you've seen it. You're a documentary filmmaker. You interview a lot of people. You can see it.

Like when Corey Good's saying his shit, he's a sociopath and you can see he's fucking making it up. I watched that on video and I can see that in a deposition. This guy didn't have that. And in my head, you know, we even threw in there, you know, to try to get some background. He talked about they did regressive memory work with him in some of his psychiatry and things like that. And I'm putting it together and I'm like, I don't think, and I ended up telling them this to his face a little bit on camera and then a lot off camera afterwards. Like, I don't think the guy is a liar. I think he is someone who has some severe trauma, has repressed memory syndrome, has things where, and there's medical terms that are above my pay grade here, but maybe some doctors in the comments can help us out. But I've heard about these phenomenons before where people

hear stories and they then begin to dissociate and take it on as their own, which could very well explain some of the lore that he is clearly bringing into his story and to get back to your original question here just so that we're fully transparent on this whole thing you know obviously that that one clip i guess things were happening so fast i didn't really think this through but that that clip went way more viral than i ever would have expected where james says he's he's like if you start bringing up killing aliens that's a total credibility ability killer i gotta leave walking right and i just put that like at the end of the first episode to preview the next episode i'm like okay cool and then like even before the second episode came out people were like

whoa like freaking out about it now that was about two hours and 20-ish minutes into that second podcast. To answer your question, I had no idea that was coming. There was never a conversation with James before that certain things were going to be off limits or something like that. When it happened, now I'm doing this live. I mean, you know how this works in here. I fully understood where James was coming from. I also knew it probably wasn't going to look the best on him. Like people were way harder on him than even I thought they were going to be as it would turn out. But I knew why James was doing that because he was so concerned about what very serious people would think of him that he's now tied to someone like this.

And again, this is just my belief. I think he felt duped by some other people or misled, if you will. And it was like a panic moment. And so I made a call in there to say, okay, we're going to link the post-disclosure interviews. It's 22 minutes. People can go see it and see what he said. It's all over the internet too. And we'll discuss some more things here. And then I made sure to bring it back and editorialize a little bit to try to soften the blow. Now, if there's something I could have done differently there, I could see that. I made a call in the moment and it involved a friend of mine.

So there was a little bit of also that going on. But, you know, he didn't leave the room. I didn't know that was going to be happening i understand where it came from he probably should have just let it happen i and i think that's fair to say because everybody is like getting super defensive of jason sands because of that comment yes and they don't understand the context behind it that's right you've just provided that yes and that's my hope. And people are still, you know, as well as I do, people are religiously still going to believe what they want or claim what they want. You can't take them out of it. But at least I can say I've put on the record, this is what it is. And again, like if, if certain things, if James could have handled it a

different way and it would have been a little better, that's fair. But to crucify him for it is not fair, especially considering that he really got railroaded online by some people unfairly for claiming that. The same people who get upset that things come without evidence from UFO people are perfectly fine providing their own concepts without evidence as well and committing the same sin and i don't make any distinction between the two so so yeah i just felt like that was unfair you brought up two things that are key here that i i think i can relate to the cory good story dark alliance and all that stuff everybody at the time that Corey Goode was coming forward. I mean, a vast majority. Because again, he was being propped up by a network that has, at the time, millions of subscribers that are paying monthly to watch those shows.

And even today, there is a huge following and fan base of the Secret Space. I'll call it the New age secret space program new age new age is like this kind of christianity adjacent group that's a bit hippy dippy they believe crystals can like you know talk to you and stuff like that or fix your health and stuff like that anyway so that's rude i'm probably going to get a lot of hate for that but uh you know i'm just joking i'm doing some dead pain okay but what i'm trying to say is everybody got defensive of cory good and if you watch the documentary system uh series the docu series we put together there's proof that people went as far as being militant on his

behalf and doxing other people and going after and attacking their credibility in the ufo community because they were so behind him that might happen again it seems like it will repeat because it does the community never learns from past mistakes unless we're presenting them. And I'm trying to present some of these past mistakes, right? Interesting thing about Corey Goode. He speaks in that. So that deposition that you saw, we took a few clips from it that were poignant to what point we were making but he says in the hours long version of that deposition that you can go watch online he says uh the lawyer says you have ptsd and cory says yes i have ptsd and uh is some of your memory repression and stuff like that associated with your PTSD and some of these stories you're telling? He says, um, he says, did you getd from fighting aliens in space i got it from an abusive childhood

physically and mentally from my family that does that not sound similar it sounds similar but there's a huge difference in attitude and presentation yeah between him and jason jason is seems innocent in what he's presenting yeah and i don't even want to use the oh he seems so innocent or whatever i i want to say from like a heart perspective there's a kindness about him yes there is and it's and it's it's not narcissistic or malevolent and there's also there's like uh there's a little boy in him that never grew up cory good comes across much more darkly affected he comes across much more as i said earlier sociopathic when you listen to him talk and how he will immediately he'll say something with all this chest and then immediately

pivot it's reminding me of someone else immediately pivoting to something that, that is like, that is like, don't worry about it. That is, that is directly against what he just said and having and saying it as if it is now the new definition. And you're an idiot for even thinking that it's against what he just said. Like,

that's what he does. Jason doesn't do that. At least in my interactions with him, he doesn't do that. He, he says things that I think they're like they're coming out of thin air into his brain from things that have been claimed by other people that probably aren't true or definitely aren't true in some cases that then he believes are his own. And what people want to call that medically, I will leave that to the medical experts to decide. That's not – that's above my that's not up to you and i mean look there is an all-time distrust of the medical

community right now the psychological community um i understand that and there's probably two groups that would distrust that community the most scientologists and the ufo community so by you even saying that there might be something happening psychologically here you're already losing half of that audience that might be tuning into this yeah because they are immediately checking at the door nope he just said trust a psychologist or a psychiatrist i can't trust a psychologist or psychiatrist because, you know, they they're gaslighting and they're they're actually evil. And you can't trust the medical industry in any way right now. Right. But I'm sorry, you have to. to they don't want those somewhat those guidelines are in place in society to keep us from going off track so much logically and you know uh in a psyche way that we completely lose the boat economically politically and uh mentally as a society socializing with each other like if this becomes the new norm that people are whacking eight foot tall crab aliens and bases underground or caves and all this you know the galactic federation is 100 real with no truth

we're losing the plot we're losing the plot we're losing people and like also this is why i take it and this is why i take issue with any of this whenever something that involves fact finding and evidence-based finding puts the word community on it. That's a huge red flag. Immediately when that happens, I'm like, oh, fuck, here we go. We're going to have people who come in who it's not a fact thing. It becomes a believer thing. I already touched on this earlier, but like that happened a long time.

That's why I stay out a lot of this stuff. It's become a cult. Yes, totally. And I i'm into i'm curious about what's out there in the universe i'm curious about things that have been claimed there's some stuff that i think is supremely bullshit a lot of stuff that i think is supremely bullshit other stuff i'm like maybe and then a lot of stuff that i'm like maybe but probably not aliens it's probably something else but i'm curious to know what people saw with that because i want to know if we can try to figure out what the fuck DARPA is doing. Sure.

Or something like that. But there's a lot of people who are like, no, my whole life is going to be based on the meaning of the fact that an alien comes down and says hello to me. Like, man, that is just, in my opinion, not a way to live. Well, look, we were talking about this like new age secret space program idea before, right? And how like that became popular, popularized through Gaia TV and conferences and books and all these people pushing us in the UFO community towards this idea, right? That's unverifiable, really. What we can verify is a real secret space program. We can verify through historical documents and actual declassified statements and proof that there was a space program that was conducted by Air Force personnel. Okay? So there's always a kernel of truth under these things right for example you can look up the manned orbital laboratory that was a secret space project manned orbital let's look it up manned orbital laboratory yeah you can look up Skylab 3. Okay. Skylab, the MoLab, manned orbital laboratory.

All right, let's hit that one first. Go to the first one. The manned orbital laboratory was part of the United States Air Force concepts of crewed space stations as reconnaissance satellites and was a successor to the cancelled Boeing x20 dinosaur dinosaur military reconnaissance space plane plans for the MOL evolved into a single-use laboratory for which crews would be launched on 30-day missions and return to earth using a Gemini B spacecraft derived from NASA's Gemini spacecraft and launch with the laboratory. The MLL program was announced to the public on 10 December 1963, around 20 days after Kennedy gets whacked, as an inhabited platform to demonstrate the utility of putting people in space for military missions. Its reconnaissance satellite mission was a secret

black project. 17 astronauts were selected for the program, including Major Robert H. Lawrence Jr., the first African-American astronaut. The prime contractor for the spacecraft was McDonnell Aircraft Corporation. The laboratory was built by the Douglas Aircraft Company. The Gemini B was externally similar to NASA's Gemini spacecraft, although it underwent several modifications, including the addition of a circular hatch through the heat shield, which allowed passage between the spacecraft and the laboratory all right so as the 60s progressed the vietnam war competed with the mll for funds and resultant budget cuts repeatedly postponed to first operational flight at the same time automated systems rapidly improved narrowing the benefits of a crude space platform over an automated one a single uncrewed test flight to gemini b spacecraft was conducted on 3 november 1966 but mll was canceled in 1969

without any crude missions being flown okay so to give we knew of in the public space missions going on that were going to the moon what were those called in what years 1961 to 1972 apollo yeah yeah so everybody knew nasa and they were like they're the only guys in town going into space. Those are the only astronauts. Fact check. Actually, Air Force personnel were going into space. NASA was perfecting how to launch people into space. It was like a proof of concept. They were showing they can do it. And then they were going beyond that and going to the moon amazing huge sorry Bart Sabrell we actually went but with that we also have a secret project that's happening where the Air Force are sending up Air Force personnel living for a month in space doing spy activity on adversaries from this space station and it didn't just end there the next program look up skylab 3 skylab 3 okay skylab was a space station it didn't look like a capsule like the Apollo thing did. Skylab 3 was like a miniature international space station. They had massive quarters where they could hop around, work out, you know, do all kinds of stuff in space.

This is declassified now. This happened in the 1970s after the Apollo space program was retired. Okay, do we have another article on this, Les? Yeah. So this is a legitimate secret space program. At the time, it was being run also by the Air Force. All right, so this is from nas NASA.gov, the actual NASA website.

The second crew to inhabit Skylab launched. This is Skylab 3 on July 28, 1963. You know what? Go back. 1973. Yeah, let's just get the basic here and people check this. All right, so Skylab 3 was the second crewed mission to the first American space station skylab the mission began on july 28th 1973 with the launch of nasa astronauts and lasted 59 days 11 hours and 9 minutes a total of 1084.7 astronaut utilization hours were tallied by the skylab 3 crew performing scientific experiments in the areas of medical activities solar observations

earth resources and other experiments the crewed Skylab missions were officially designated Skylab 2, 3, and 4. Miscommunication about the numbering resulted in the mission emblems reading Skylab 1, Skylab 2, and Skylab 3, respectively. But a lot of the stuff that was happening up there was secretive mission stuff. Like, they were...

How do we know that? Because it's classified data. You can't find out what the exactly... like you have the NASA website that says this is what they did. But if you're up there for 59 days, you're going to make observations. You're going to do tests. Sure. You're going to do all kinds of stuff that is serving to the defense and – there's stuff that they've published but what i'm saying they're real fast darcy i'm sorry i just saw something there we were both looking at that

can you go up to the spider thing alessi the x-ray yeah spider are you familiar with this go ahead okay spider webs were spun by two this is a spider web experiment spider webs were spun by two female european garden spiders cross spiders called arabella and anita as part of an experiment on skylab 3. the aim of the experiment was to test whether the two spiders would spin webs in space and if so whether these webs would be the same as those that they produced on earth the experiment was a student project of julie miles of lexington of lexington massachusetts after the launch the spiders were released by astronaut owen garriott into a box that resembled a window frame. The spiders proceeded to construct their web while a camera took photographs and examined the spiders' behavior in a zero-gravity environment.

Both spiders took a long time to adapt to their weightless existence. However, after a day, Arabala spun the first web in the experimental cage, although it was initially incomplete. The web was completed the following day. the crew members were prompted to expand the initial protocol they fed and watered the spiders giving them a house fly the first web was removed on august 13th to allow arabella to construct a second web at first she failed to construct a new web when given more water she built a second web this time it was more elaborate than the first both spiders died during the mission possibly from dehydration. When scientists studied the webs, they discovered that the space webs were finer than normal earth webs, and although the patterns of the web were not totally dissimilar, variations were spotted,

and there was a definite difference in the characteristics of the web. Additionally, while the webs were finer overall, the space web had variations in thickness in places. Some places were slightly thinner and others slightly thicker. This was unusual because webs were finer overall the space web had variations in thickness in places some places were slightly thinner and others slightly thicker this was unusual because earth webs had been observed to have uniform thickness later experiments indicated that having access to a light source could orient the spiders and enable them to build their normal asymmetric webs when gravity was not a factor right exactly so like the spider is not feeling the gravity when it's spinning this web. Right.

Therefore, it's not maintaining a consistent thickness to the web. Sure. Right. If you feel the gravity, you're like, oh, okay, it should stay this thick throughout. But if you don't feel the gravity, you're like, what the fuck am I doing here? Right. Like, so that's just like a basic generic space test but um there is a prominent ufo video our ufo sighting that happened by uh bean um what's his name astronaut

his last name's bean yeah alan alan bean okay and and the other guys that were on skylab 3 they reported a massive red object that was pacing their craft uh pacing skylab in space and it was like i can't remember the exact size but you can look up like skylab 3 ufo, we have the documents that were, you know, that came from that incident. We do. How did we have them? Uh, they got published and, uh, it's like the whole communication about, um, the sighting and there's pictures, there's two or three pictures that came from it. I published it in a docu-series I did called Secret Space UFOs Fast Walkers because the Air Force has been classifying space-based UFO encounters as fast walkers.

Fast walkers. Fast walkers. That's the code name for them right and um so i'm just saying like there is credibility to ufo activity happening in space there's credibility to secret space missions that have been conducted by the air force with like mandor orbital laboratory and a lot of space research that's gone on post uh apolloollo program or adjacent to the Apollo program that the public did not even know about. I'm sure that there's still stuff going on today. If you look up the X-37B, that is a spacecraft that is fully autonomous, that looks like the space shuttle.

Remember the Challenger, the Columbus, the Atlantis space shuttles that were man the space shuttle remember the challenger yes columbus the atlantis space shuttles that were manned space shuttles x-37b goes into space for longer than a year this one we're looking at right here yeah it's like a miniature space shuttle that doesn't need crewed personnel that can carry out all kinds of spy activity. It can go. It doesn't take long to get to the moon. It takes like, I can't remember how many days, maybe like eight days to complete a revolution around the moon and then come back to earth. Yeah.

And you don't even have crew. You could go to the moon. You could potentially, I don't know. I don't know what the full space capabilities of this craft is i know that it's been in space for longer than 400 days and a year is 365 days last time i checked mars is just about that distance away i mean you could yeah and this is a u.s united air force, uh, fully space capable, capable craft that can, can be taken to space, can do all kinds of stuff that we don't know about.

That's completely classified and come back. This is real. There is real secret space programs and activity happening. But when you go into the galactic federation the blue bird people aliens which is the cory good stuff and you talk about you know whacking aliens in caves and all that stuff there is no very verifiable proof to that and it just becomes like folklore folklore and people have heard it before so they get attracted to the idea and i'm just worried that we're completely losing it you know like it's already wild enough to believe that maybe some of these ufo are being piloted by non-human intelligence that are visiting our planet you know in terms of all of the cases that have been represented throughout

the history of the subject if even one of those is true it's groundbreaking yes and we should discuss it but when you have people that come from questionable backgrounds that are pushing ideas that have already been part of the UFO lore for a long time and you have no proof behind it, you know, like so many experiencers, so many contactees have witnessed so-called abduction incidents, which, you know, I'm a firm believer at this point that that is a credible phenomenon. Whitley Streber, he discusses. he's got a chip in his ear or something does whitley have a chip in his ear i think so he's got like an alien chip or something that's what he claims claims he had sex with an alien there you go yeah that's actually pretty common believe it or not there's uh there's a guy who lives like fucking seven blocks away that that dude from uh what the hell is his name the old guy he's not really with it anymore it's like 95 but he made that claim danny jones knows it i forget his name okay oh he does all the artwork repaints it of like the alien with the long black hair i guess yeah yeah i think there's like a documentary

called like love and aliens yes that's it that's the guy yeah yeah there you go so that's a thing that's discussed quite often um but you've got interesting data there like you've got betty and barney hill who um represent that same sort of story travis walton has something similar to that they didn't have like black eyes but they were you know spindly short large cranium non-human intelligence that were there when he woke up on this craft um you've got who else uh i just released this docu-series called pasca ghoula 73 where uh these do you think the mic disconnected or something we're good good okay um these two mississippi men were fishing on the end of a pier in 1973, the night of October 11th, and they saw light come to them. It arrived behind them.

Next thing you know, these three entities hover down out of the craft, grab them, take them on board. One gets taken to one room. One gets taken to another the 19 year old who's calvin parker he ends up recalling uh that there was like a female looking uh non-human intelligence there he said she was kind of flat but you know if he saw her at a bar and had a few beers he'd sleep with her um that's dangerous these days you need to do a leg check i'm just saying yeah uh okay i yeah i got what you're saying there and then you got um these other entities that had gray skin no eyes no mouth in the other room sitting in sort of like the suspended

animation process an orb came out and like revolved around his body scanned him and they were both terrified they were completely awake the whole time deposited back on the river and they went to tell the world and and that's now a pretty famous case uh alan j alan hynek the science famous scientist that led project blue book yep he came in the same week interviewed them they did a medical exam saw wounds where they said that they felt something injected in their body to make them, you know, more relaxed and go limp. Um, he said these men seem credible. And this is a guy that for, you know, decades leading the project blue book study, um, was saying that, you know, this stuff is all prosaic. There's a reason for it, you know?

So I feel like there are abduction cases that may be real. And Lou even brought up abduction in his book, Imminent. There's a recent whistleblower, somebody who's come forward on Matt Ford's podcast, John Blitch. forward on um matt ford's podcast john uh blitch oh so you're talking about something different than i thought you were okay go ahead no i'm just saying that there's a lot of testimony confirming that there's a phenomenon where people are being taken on board craft beyond their will throughout history and the air force gets involved and examines it. Police officers examine it.

You know, apparently sometimes the CIA examine these cases. And if there was nothing to that, there wouldn't be trace evidence. There wouldn't be wounds. There wouldn't be radiation there wouldn't be radiation um that people apparently were even um john burroughs this is the guy that said he saw a craft off the uh bent waters base in rendlesham forest yes he was examined by kit green Green and they found traces of radiation. Yes, that's true. Damage to his body. And he said he interacted with a non-human intelligence and, you know, went in kind of like was part of this craft experience.

A little bit different from Pedison, his experience, where he just touched this like triangular physical craft. But, you know, later on, John McCain, Senator John McCain actually tracked down the medical or he tracked down the service record of John Burroughs because John Burroughs had this heart valve issue. and the Air Force was not allowing that because they said you didn't serve at that time because his records from the Rendlesham incident had become classified mmm and scrubbed from being accessed so believe it or not senator John McCain had to he was informed of this by kit and um harold uh how put off they senator john mccain ran this up the flagpole and got you know this address because he was somebody who protected veterans and uh as a veteran himself and they got his his medical benefits covered as a result of what happened, what he was exposed to at the Rendlesham Forest incident. contact experience there. And then if he did not get that experience,

how did he get his medical benefits covering that? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. There seems to be trace evidence to certain credible stories. In Pascagoula 73, that story about these two men that were supposedly abducted and had this whole experience and the air force got involved at one point the police department got involved leading up to that there was a ufo wave happening in mississippi like literally sheriff fred diamond

and other police officers gave their testimony that they saw that object that night and previous nights and nights afterwards during the month of October, the month of February, or sorry, the month of November, there was an object in the actual river that the Coast Guard intercepted, like a USO. So we know through documentation that that actually existed and i feel like um there are real credible cases in the ufo community that people can go after and they can sink their teeth into real relevant data of that happening but a lot of this stuff that gets turned into ufo attainment it gets presented on Gaia TV and so on and so forth. It's almost like an op.

Sometimes it feels that way. Do you think that the space has been commandeered, at least a piece of it, by something that is some sort of psychological operation emanating from the government? Okay, here's an interesting story. Jay Widener, the former head of production over at Gaia that built up the Corey Good series called Cosmic Disclosure, he was there on the ground floor seeing everything going down. A month before Corey Good got brought in to become

the new star of this show with david wilcox help jay told me and you could speak to him too he got a call from somebody who identified themselves as a cia agent well that's that's a red flag right there. They can't call themselves if they're an agent, that's bullshit. If they say, if they say I'm an agent and they're full of shit. Okay. I'm, I'm saying agent. He said, the person says I work for the CIA. I think that's what the guy said. Like, hi, I'm calling you. I work, I work for the CIA or something. Jay says, okay, very interesting. Why are you calling me? And he said, Jay, your life is going to become very interesting and difficult over the next few years. You're going to have challenges and somebody is going to be presented to you that you're going to have issues with

but you're going to make it through this or something like that i'm paraphrasing right we'll get through it you'll get through it something like that and jay was like spooked lo and behold cory good comes forward this is is from Jay's mouth. Right. And Jay believes him. He thinks, okay, this guy's real. Like everybody's vetted him. Right. It's another one of these situations where it's like somebody else that brings him forward says I vetted him. Therefore he's, he's real. You got to stand behind this guy. In this case, it was David Wilcock. Um, so it was a bit more of like a trust me, bro, because who's David Wilcock? Like he, does he have connections to intelligence or military background? No. Right. Um, and so Jay said, okay, like if you vetted them let's make this show they start making the show jay's starting to see all the cracks in the testimony and seeing that it's like coming from other popular ufo conspiracy theories and it seemed to be almost like this data mind superhero character. Chase,

literally saying to the owner of the network, I don't want to represent this story anymore. And the owner is saying, he's coming back for another three seasons. Or two seasons. Okay. We must finish the arc. Yeah. And he's like, I love it. It's the best story we've ever done. Okay?

We have to fucking do this. Shut your fucking face, Jay. You want to work here? You want to make money? Just do your job. So Jay goes and does his job, but is having all this tension on set, seeing all the cracks.

Before this time jay was representing like certain people in terms of you know expanding the global consciousness and psyche of what's possible like uh um drawing a blank i have to go piss too oh you got you want to take a quick break yeah cool all right we'll be right back all right we're back we're just looking during the break it's like a fucking the suit on me ufos wet dream day yeah i put out lou at 12 chris ramsey puts out fucking chris bledsoe at 12 jesse michaels puts out whitley streber at one and while we were on air sean ryan puts out luell's onto it too so. And while we were on air, Sean Ryan puts out Luella Zondo at two. So I was going to fuck myself,

but yeah. Yeah. You're, you're battling with some juggernauts there, but I think, I think we're covering some interesting stuff here. So yeah, Jay Widener,

previous to helping platform Corey good through the help of David Wilcock. He was focusing on other guests that were credible, that were bringing some information to the table that we can verify, like philosopher and sociologist Noam Chomsky and Richard Dolan being like a historian and ufologist who's bringing documents and proof and all kinds of stuff to a cover-up taking place with the Air Force and the defense and military industrial complex orchestrating secrecy around UFOs and activity. then cory good comes and he's getting a warning call before cory good comes and he's going insane from representing this story because he doesn't want to be covering this type of stuff he wants to be covering more credible things that we can put our finger on as being real like a normal person yeah and um he eventually gets diagnosed with cancer and just says that's it like i'm already not enjoying my life right now uh professionally

by representing this story i gotta go to gaia and say i'm done i'm'm retiring. Like I got to go look after my health and get treatment for cancer to get through this battle. Um, and at the same time, he's seen so many cracks in this story and he starts to realize he has to come forward and say, okay, I don't believe corey good it's all untrue um and what happens as a result of that i mean that's something the ufo community can learn from what's going on right freaking now yeah all of these people are being becoming ufo rock stars let's just be honest right uh four shows being published today in regards to ufos it's a tsunami of information and the rock star ufology era is upon us corey good was a rock star yeah in his time and place yep cory uh david wilcock too and they were representing stories that were untrue and jay widener says they knew it

jay widener says in the documentary i did not want to admit that i was being conned and he says a lot of people in this community do not want to admit that they've been conned yep right and i think that's what's going on i think people are getting so swept up and caught up in the idea that everything's true yep and they're not checking that and saying, wait a second, some of this stuff seems to be a con. Some of this stuff seems to not be trackable, seems to be a bit of a grift. My heart goes out to people that have some kind of mental illness that are suffering, and I want them to get help. but it's making other people unwell. In my opinion, if they're allowing these ideas to proliferate and become popular without any actual proof or data to go behind them. And, um, that's where I think we're at right now.

I had asked you a little bit ago about, and I think that's how we kind of got into this about, you know, active campaigns that could be going on to do this. Do you think it's useful to get this topic like, quote unquote unquote into the mainstream where then people become like we're seeing them become to the point that then it gets stigmatized all over again uh i think the really cheap tawdry and insane stories that proliferate and are not trackable or provable can drive people crazy in the community and therefore can have them weaponized against the country that they're from because the distrust is so prevalent with the powers that be that uh they're turning against the country. They can become like almost terrorist cells, right?

How do you destabilize a country better than expanding disinformation and distrust against those in power? You infiltrate communities that already are filled with paranoia, and you allow that paranoia to become even greater and expand into the mainstream community right we are already uh dealing with that from covid the distrust in the medical community and the powers that be that proliferated certain information that uh you know may not have necessarily been true absolutely and so that just grows it festers it becomes uh more dangerous and um i think that could be a foreign intelligence op played out on you think it's foreign i i think so i think it makes sense

that um some of this stuff is pushed and proliferated possibly by foreign intelligence then why are so many of the whistleblowers coming out literally from our government no no i think i think that the whistle like a lot of the whistleblowers are, I'm saying like the really dumb, like Gaia TV stuff, that stuff is like straight up disinformation, misinformation that could be a psyop from a foreign. I mean, this is my opinion. I can't, I can't fully prove it, but it's like. What did they get out of that if they do that control of a segment of the population that hates that foreign powers government and distrusts and you can turn the screws and further push disinformation that i mean look at russia and china when the government says jump their people say how high that's right what happens in the united states when the government says jump their people say how high that's right what happens in the united states when the government says jump they say fuck you or like go yeah i'll kill you like

there's all kinds of responses right um so it is a democracy but you're you're when you have like things like this that become so prevalent and so misinformation like um it's making that impossible for your government to function and therefore destabilizes your ability to be a foreign power that competes with you right if russia and china said get your injections now everybody would have to get them right here that's never going to happen again it seems like well not with this current administration right they're probably not going to be because there's too much stigma around it right that's right so that's my opinion and i i think it comes back to stuff like this and um it's kind of scary times to live in even like canada people don't trust the canadian government like it's pretty much the west that That's the UK and Europe.

Turning in on itself, for sure. It's all becoming super destabilized because, you know, is that part of the op? I don never see. that will blow everybody's mind i mean that you can even hear what they're trying to do is buy back trust from the people and i think that is a good move so yeah but it's also it can be like shiny object syndrome oh look at the ufo look at the ufo look at the ufo we're helping you out but she was saying that it's more than that that's coming out right she's saying it's not just ufos it's bigger than that so that means they're trying to buy back the trust of the people because they they're trying to mop up this mess of

distrust and this destabilized system that they're having to govern now. How do you turn around from that, from the previous administration, and say, okay, trust us. We're going to do right by you, right? These are the types of actions. going on with the ufo subject and a possible non-human intelligence that has possibly arrived at one point in time in history that will push further trust in my opinion i think that is a way not everybody cares about that right like there's a whole segment of the population that you could like literally have an alien mooning them right in front of their face and they'll be like i'm not buying it right right but uh to people that are like following this stuff it's important and i think it could push us scientifically to explore new opportunities that we haven't before, you know, and look at the stuff that Elon's doing.

You know, he's talking about going to Mars and settle Mars and all that stuff. It's pretty cool. And I'm behind it. I think we should be i think every time we've gone into space in the past we have innovated and found new scientific breakthroughs that we've never had before that right like even the computer technology that was on the apollo spacecraft was massive for its time now in our pockets our cell phone has more computer technology than the impala spacecraft yeah right everybody talks about that but you have to you have to innovate in these new opportunities

and these new environments that we've never been exposed to before scientifically in order for us to evolve as a species both consciously and physically like if there is going to be a version of humanity that lives on mars they might be um not only artificially guided people that are like possibly post-singularity like they've got post-singularity like android uh not like cybernetically enhanced people like people that have you know instead of wearing a having a pocket that carries your artificial intelligent cell phone in your pocket in your on your person they might actually have a chip in their brain that ai talks to them throughout the day of every day of the year right to guide them through this hostile environment

to be able to exist to be able to live on mars it's not exactly the best place to live you need to build an underground base there you can't live in the um on the surface without donning a a spacesuit like they wore uh on the moon missions it needs to be covered in um essentially like kevlar and stuff because micrometeorites could take you out like a bullet they could hit you and kill you if you didn't have certain protectivelar and stuff because micro meteorites could take you out like a bullet that could hit you and kill you if you didn't have certain protective gear and stuff like that right like it's a totally hostile environment and i feel like there's truths to the ufo stuff like anti-gravity and um possible non-human intelligence interacting with us that pushes us scientifically to a new belief system a new consciousness and ability to explore new science and and

push the boundaries so to speak it's like a very futuristic futurism way of looking at life in my opinion yeah um you talk about though the the i want to go back to the trust thing yeah with governments and institutions as a whole because this is a huge societal wide issue right now where people it's like with trust you have to spend years building it up or like a civilization building it up and you can do one two or three main things that just cascade into other things that tear it all down and then it's gone and it feels like the real you know you had it you had two key turning points with basically like the endless wars of the 2000s and the global financial crisis which were like strike one and strike two for people where everyone's you know they were up like this like wait a minute

what the fuck is going on here in the meantime you have internet 2.0 coming up during that as well where social media gets born people start to be able to put their opinions out there go viral etc and then you obviously also allows mind viruses that are not true to be to proliferate 100 yeah and then you get like strike three which to me is the covet era and what happened where people's lives were literally flipped upside down overnight and things were impressed upon them by the government and then institutions around it that turned out to like you could see evidence that like things weren't true and then they were saying no not only is it true you're censored if you say that it's not

and present evidence that it's not to the point that people have now finally said, fuck you. Never again with any of that. And never again, am I trusting anything? And I always talk about this. There's an equal but opposite reaction to everything. When you push people down and tell them how to think and tell them what it is when you are objectively ruining their lives, which is what happened here with the institutions, you deserve what you get, which is you are going to get the people on the other end, basically with their fucking bats and, you know, flamethrowers going, fuck you, we're rising up. But the answer to how a well-run, civilized, happy society works is in the middle of those

two things where there's an established trust. And that's where I always try to live. But I recognize that there are realities around us that show us that that is not where we are right now. And there's reason to believe that it's going to be very, very hard, very, very hard to unring that bell. Yeah, it's going to be hard. It's going to be a long process to work back towards that trust. You know know that's where we're at in history right now and um the governments of the western world have a huge job ahead ahead of them yes right everybody's calling what's happening in europe right now like communism you know the government just basically putting their foot down and saying this is how it is this is what we're doing um i think at the united states canada they have to be they have to be a bit more free about it and

slowly release information yes to prove that maybe some conspiracies that were out there are real. That's right. But other ones are total BS. And I want to be able to be part of that and walk that fine line of identifying disinformation, misinformation, and letting the truer stuff rise up to the top. Also, how do you do that too? Like who gets to decide that? Documentation, proof and evidence that shows there's something legitimate

behind what's being said or said. And that's all we have. I mean, that's, if we live in the court, like a court system, people go to jail and live the rest of their lives based off of that sort of thing. Eyewitness testimony and corroborative evidence. The whole trust me, bro, you know, era, it's ended. We can't have that because how do we know to trust anybody?

But so many people still adhere to that that's the thing i know i mean trust me bros it's everywhere it's everywhere i mean it's happening in the ufo community yeah yeah right great example um but like we need again back to like the sort of space mission stuff going to mars we need an epic like monumental mission like that in order to push us to a greater good to uh some kind of goal that people can unify over and actually try to achieve as a group. Sure. Right? I think that is actually the right idea.

I know that people will go, oh, well, what about all these issues on Earth we need to sort out? Yeah, we need to sort out those things. But maybe in the conquest and goal to set up civilization on another planet within our solar system, we will find all of those answers. We will be like, okay, this is how you purify water that's ocean-based and it's drinkable and it's cheap to do this. And, you know, we're going to do that same sort of stuff on Mars by melting ice caps. You know, here's how you create oxygen environments. So to that same water and ice, um, AI can help us do this, you know, by

integrating in some way to our bodies, you know know then there's people that get very resistance resistant to that idea too but i feel like um i understand why they are yeah me too i i feel like there's there can be a balance between like working with ai and not working with ai like there should be a whole foundation of learning and experience up to a certain age as a human being until AI gets integrated into your life. Would you mind explaining how that would look? That's a little bit broad. People say don't ever give a screen or a phone to a baby, right? Because immediately their brain is being programmed by serotonin and oxytocin release reward systems from flipping around a tablet and clicking on buttons and being excited and the blue light that's emanating from the screen that can be very unhealthy even us as adults we experience it you know we're getting insomnia from constantly being uh exposed by blue light yes and never giving our brains a chance to like slowly calm down before bed and stuff like that right so and we we got that sort of cell phone experience in our adolescence or adulthood kids these days are being born with

this technology surrounding them that's right and as we drop cell phones and it becomes a wearable, like glasses, that you're able to just look around and think in that environment. Like that's pretty much what Meta is trying to build right now. Or Google or Apple, they're trying to build a wearable environment that you lose the cell phone screen and instead the screen is just over your eyes and you don't even have to take it off you could you could go to sleep with the thing on you know what i mean and you're immediately into this like operating system environment where you're navigating and pulling information interacting with the metaverse world which is internet connected all the time you're being entertained you're learning you're uh working in that environment you know you're doing your emails or your communications or building applications through that like that's all coming

and then after that wearable era we're talking about integration we're talking about like the uh what's the brain chip that neural and we're gonna i think we are actually going to need some of that in order to complete conquests of other planets in our solar system and uh you know i'm not even i don't work in silicon valley I don't like I'm looking at this from an outsider. Sure. But you see all the writing on the wall. That's where we're going. And I honestly think we need we do need some of it, but we need some sort of like laws and practices in place to build a healthier society around that yeah and you know

when you look at the history of technology since the beginning of humanity that we can trace back to there has always been fear and questioning around the latest new technology being the thing that's like going to end us and it has levels to it i mean there's probably i don't know the context of this one but to maybe exaggerate here there's probably people who thought the wheel would like be the way that humanity ends or whatever and every time we've managed to get past it now i don't take that for granted and say that means we're always going to be good right you don't have to pay attention because eventually you could run into the one thing that's so big on

the exponential scale of like affecting technology that finally we have something where it's like oh boom the end the point is though we we haven't done that yet and that's why i want to give something like ai a chance but i'd be lying to you if i didn't talk about you know sharing some of the same concerns you do and wondering how, you know, is like the baby we are dealing with such an adult technology. We teach ourselves to deal with this because there have been bad patterns over the past 10 to 15 years, and particularly, that we've shown, I think we've kind of failed some tests on as humanity, you know, being glued to our phones at all times, literally changing our physicality in some ways, being glued to social media over the real world

and letting it affect how we behave in the real world to the point that people are having massive mental health crises because of it. These are not good trends. Now you add in something like AI that, you know, let's not even talk about when it gets sentient or something like that. You are opening... you are agi sorry agi exactly you are opening pandora's box potentially and i don't want to overlook that and say like oh we'll definitely be fine i also don't want to be the guy like we can't do this it's gonna end us you know you gotta again you gotta try to find that middle road and hopefully we can do that as a society so i believe it's the troglodytes alessi troglodytes t-r-g-l-t-r-o-g oh t-r-o-g sorry troglodytes wow we got it right away all

right uh what is this so they're like monkey people basically go back. It says prehistoric, a person who lived in cave hermit, a person who is regarded as being deliberately ignorant or old fashioned. So this is an actual physical phenomenon we've had in our like lineage as beings on this planet. Like troglodytes would have been something we came from you know we became we're homo sapiens before that there was like troglodytes there was neanderthals there's evidence that we mix bread with neanderthals right um red hair is actually a trait of a neanderthal apparently so troglodytes were the dudes that said no to technology and they got left behind probably

killed off by more advanced more evolved human beings sure right? Which proliferated and took over the planet. We killed off all the monkey men. There was Gigantopithecus at one point. There was Astrolopithecus. These were all, we have fossil record of these upright, ape-like human-ish beings that didn't make it. They're not living here today because we were like fuck you and we killed them the people that adopt ai successfully and are able to coexist

successfully and move into the future with that technology they will leave behind the people that fear that technology and the sort of troglody that fear that technology. And the sort of troglodyte is that, you know, it's like when the dude came along and invented the wheel, something like the troglodyte was like, oh my God, it's magic. Throw a rock at them. You know what I mean? I don't even know if they could speak i'm just saying i got you it's a it's examples of where we can go and where we have been and um you know eventually we just have to either bear our teeth and pick the right way to move forward in the future with tools like ai or we're going to get left behind. That's my opinion. I think you're right.

Um, and fear is obviously a very powerful way to motivate people. So is love, right? And this comes back around again to these leaders in the UFO community that pitch fear and love to motivate their crowds. David Wilcock and Corey Goode, they pushed this story that a solar supernova was going to take place in the future. I'm not even kidding. You can look this up. No, I believe you. And part of getting a huge group of the new agey Gaia folks to buy into their whole story

was fear. They were saying this supernova is coming. It's going to wipe out the planet. It's going to kill all of the unenlightened oh god but if you come and take our course for 333 dollars which is a weekend worth or one day's worth which is 111 dollars we will give you the secrets and the teachings to ascend and that ascension to ascend that ascension uh pitch is basically saying the ones who don't come to us and learn from us when the solar nova supernova hits the planet you're going to be wiped out with all the ones that get left behind but if you learn from us you'll ascend when that happens

and we'll live with the galactic federation beings and blah blah blah whatever right it becomes very nebulous oh yeah um so that's going to continue to happen and if you want society to move forward with you you know and not live in these like cycles of fear and love because that's what that is right it's like fear the the solar 100 supernova coming love me i will love you in return and help you ascend and protect and protect you right it's a cult yeah i mean the heaven's gate cult it was the same thing doan whatever what the fuck that uh timothy what was this guy's name i I don't know. Heaven's Gate Cult. I recognize that name, but I'm unfamiliar.

I can't remember the context. It was love. It was mostly love was the motivation. And they talked about, and that was also born out of Christianity, by the way. Heaven's Gate, we got it up here. Heaven's Gate was an American new religious movement known primarily for the mass suicides committed by its members in 97. Commonly designated as a cult, it was founded in 1974 and led by Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles, known within the movement as Doe and T. Nettles and Applewhite first met in 1972 and went on a journey of spiritual discovery, identifying themselves as the two witnesses of the Book of Revelation.

That's never good. Attracting a following of several hundred people in the mid-70s, in 1976, a core group of a few dozen members stopped recruiting and instituted a monastic lifestyle. Scholars have described the theology of Heaven's Gate as a mixture of Christian millenarianism, New Age, and ufology, and it has been characterized as a UFO religion. The central belief of the group was that followers

could transform themselves into immortal extraterrestrial beings by rejecting their human nature, and they would ascend to heaven referred to as the next level or the evolutionary level above human. The death of Nettles from cancer in 85 challenged the group's views on ascension. While they originally believed that they would ascend to heaven while alive aboard a UFO, they came to believe that the body was merely a container and this sounds like scientology vehicle for the soul and that their their consciousness would be transferred to next level bodies upon death jesus christ right so essentially the hail bob comet was going to be passing earth and uh the leaders of that cult convinced everybody that when that passes that's actually a spaceship an alien spaceship it's not a comet and if you follow us we'll ascend and we'll you know we'll we'll join our space brothers

and and jump on that ship as it passes and we'll be like the chosen and uh as time got closer and closer to this date happening they eventually um did all these drastic crazy things so um i think it was t or was it doe was the female and t was the dude marshall uh he castrated himself cut his balls off And then he told all the other men in the group, follow, follow me. So they had the nerd, one of the people that had a bit of a nurse background, not a doctor background were cleaving the men's balls off in the group. And were they, were they under sedative? Nope. Oh, as far as I know, they did as much as they could,

like maybe threw some Tylenol at them or some shit. Yeah, but you can imagine. You can crush up and snort all the Tylenol you want. I'm actually feeling that in my balls right now. It's very uncomfortable. But basically, there were some bad operations that happened, and a bunch of them ended up at the hospital after the ball snipping. But it's a thing.

It's a very powerful thing to be part of a group or a cult that convinces you this is the best way to go. And I'm giving this to you from a loving perspective, right? That was a date-based prediction. The Hale-Bob comet was going to pass at this specific date, so time was running out. They had to do all these things to get eventually to that path of ascension. And on the day that Hale-Bob was going by,

the cult leader and their followers planned to drink kool-aid that's where the term are you drinking the kool-aid comes from because the kool-aid was laced with uh a powerful sedative to kill everybody excellent and so they were found in their house that they were all living in and bunk beds and stuff like that, dead after drinking the Kool-Aid, every one of them. There was a couple members that were clued into it and realized, you know, this wasn't adding up and they kind of got out of it. documentary on uh hbo about it i think it's you just look like heaven's gate or whatever and it's like a four-part docu-series and the guys who are surviving from that basically said like it's sad to see because they're actually suffering from ptsd from all of it and they're actually saying one of them says in it i wish i had done it i actually regret sticking around because maybe i could have joined or you know i i really loved those people and i was part of something you know and that's that's belief i don't want that stuff to repeat in the ufo community i don't you know what i mean you know what you know what though everyone when exposed to the right person which is really the wrong person but just bear with me here

the right person at the right time in their life with the right things going wrong if you know what i mean yeah is susceptible to this stuff you and i I included, depending on what it is. And there's just something in the human psychology that yearns for connection and community, where when we are in a space that we cannot get that, or we're struggling to get that through our own personal issues at the time, we are susceptible to being conned and motivated by something that seems like it is bigger than us regardless of what that is or how stupid it actually is there's no one who's above that yeah yeah uh it comes from it starts from a place of vulnerability yep right so you're ready to take in this misinformation disinformation and be programmed a certain way you're in that um mental environment and you know

i wish you had met jordan sather who's arriving tonight we're gonna go on with mark agnon yeah that'll be good um he says that i was you know i i identify as pretty much being part of a new age secret space cult yeah under cory good and david wilcock because he says like i came from this conspiracy information all this stuff was bubbling up and becoming popular at the time and he was actually speaking about ideas of a secret space program and you know started to believe in all this stuff and then cory good's team a guy who was a manager behind him keep that in mind too a lot of these people have managers and they're pushing a new book that's coming out from the person and so on so forth right so this manager reached out to jordan sather at the time and said hey you're doing some great work on social media we want to bring you

into the team and he became you know popular more popular he was kind of riding around in these conference circuits and stuff with david wilcock and cory good and the ideas were proliferating from not only those two guys but now another younger generation core uh jordan was in his 20s at the time and he spoke to a different crowd a younger crowd that was interested in this stuff um he got which you also see happen all the time in the cult right cult leaders make all the money and the followers they don't make anything right joel austin yeah i had to get that one in there so if you work for somebody you get paid your fair share but when you work in a cult you don't get paid your fair share and what happened for him was he signed contracts that he was going to be a producer on these documentaries that david wolcock and Corey Good were going to work with him on post-Gaia.

Bad move. Yeah. And he signed up for like 15% on one and then 5% of the back end on the other. And he was flying around the United States interviewing all the subjects. And he actually edited the whole first documentary for them he got paid for three months and then the paychecks stopped coming stopped yeah yeah that's how that goes yeah and there are projections that i've heard from one of those documentaries the one that i think he had 15 share on paper uh that documentary alone made in one year at 1091 films oh god don't yeah six hundred thousand dollars i'll bet it did right fucking guys and uh so that is an interesting dynamic there that also ties back to this manipulation tactic you know fear what's

coming love what i'm providing i'll protect you but really it's like follow me i'm gonna use you i know better i know better check your logic at the door let let me control you. And I just fear that constantly happening. Especially when people don't trust the government, that's where they're going to turn more to. They're always going to turn to something. There will always be something there. It could be everything from organized religion itself to something that's completely anti-religious

that people make a religion. It's just a part of human nature, and it's something I explore in here and will continue to explore with people. But the story you tell in Dark Alliance is really well done. Like I said, it's in two parts. They're both about an hour and 25 minutes. That second part, like I said, gets insane, and you see the levels to this and just the sociopathy that occurs. And you've laid out some of that today as well given some of the backstory

but i highly recommend people check that out because you know people turn this stuff into multi multi multi multi multi-million dollar businesses and they laugh their way all the way to the bank while everyone else that you know gets under them who maybe is in a vulnerable position to want to buy what's being sold, you know, doesn't get to enjoy any of that. And, and worst of all, tethers themselves to the beliefs that are being propagated to them, which aren't true. And it's, it's a crazy thing. People are being taken advantage of all over the map. Absolutely. People that are part of the cult and then people that are outside of the cult that literally are slowly being programmed to be part of the

cult. That's right. You know what I mean? But your documentary is great, man. Thank you. We'll put the link down below and great as always to talk to you, brother. Appreciate you coming through. Thanks, bro. I appreciate it, man. I'll catch you later. Everyone else, you know what it is, give it a thought, get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.