Julian Dorey Podcast - #308 - Epstein, Secrets of the Elite, Israel & the Holy Land Prophecy | Ian Carroll

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

SPONSORS: 1) MOOD: https://www.mood.com –– use Promo Code "JULIAN" to get 20% off your first order! PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey (***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Ian Carroll is an investigative journalist & content creator best known for his videos exposing major corporations and corruption. IAN's LINKS: X: https://x.com/IanCarrollShow YT: https://www.youtube.com/@UCCgpGpylCfrJIV-RwA_L7tg IG: https://www.instagram.com/cancel.ian.carroll/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 1:29 - Ian’s Background, Falling Out Story, Living in Guatemala 11:18 - Ian becomes Chef, Teacher & Digital Nomad 19:35 - Ian begins creating, Ian’s 1st Viral video explained 24:08 - Ian on controlled opposition, Platforms shut down opinions 28:11 - MKUltra Connection to “Devil’s Breath” Plant South America 31:41 - Blackrock, Game Stop Fiasco, Possible Financial Crisis w/ Swiss Bank 40:49 - CIA connections to private sector, Blackrock Conspiracy Theory 48:10 - Matthew Hedger (CIA NOC) 51:26 - Intel Agencies & Plausible Deniability, History of CIA, 2008 Financial Crisis 59:01 - Worst Conspiracy of Modern Day, Simulating Society 1:05:36 - “Useful Idiots,” Mainstream media vs. Independent media, Epstein Binders 1:16:13 - Epstein & Maxwell, Mossad, Unit 8200 (Israel NSA) 1:22:12 - How CIA was built 1:25:32 - Smedley Butler Coup Plot, Prescott Bush & Nazi Germany, Banking Families 1:32:52 - Henry Abbott Epstein Investigation 1:37:19 - CIA vs. Mossad, James Jesus Angleton 1:44:46 - The Mob, J. Edgar Hoover, Lusitania, Afghanistan Poppy Fields 1:54:06 - Gary Webb / Iran Contra, Octopus Murders & PROMIS Software 2:00:52 - Tara Palmeri Epstein Breakdown, Robert Maxwell Fortune, Les Wexner 2:09:12 - Adnan Khashoggi 2:13:52 - Las Vegas & ties to Saudi Arabia Family 2:22:50 - Ian’s Joe Rogan Episode Reaction 2:26:36 - Alex Jones 2:32:55 - Israel vs Palestine history 2:37:06 - British Colonization of Palestine, Israel’s 1948 Creation 2:50:58 - Israel & Nukes, JFK & Italian Mafia Alliance 2:55:28 - Post-Sabra & Shatila, Post-October 7th 3:01:15 - Netanyahu Background & Gaza Stances 3:13:35 - Data from Gaza & both sides Propaganda 3:16:40 - Steel-manning Israel’s position in Middle East 3:22:51 - US Responsibility for Lobbying 3:26:28 - Epstein Argument, Powerful Elites 3:30:44 - Unfair attacks on Jewish people b/c of Netanyahu, Israeli Gov Pressure 3:33:03 - Intelligence Recruitment, Where Israel was founded 3:36:40 - Diddy’s Operation 3:38:54 - CIA read-in, Antisemitism, Dave Portnoy’s Bar Incident 3:45:45 - Making peace between the factions CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - In-Studio Producer: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 308 - Ian Carroll Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All these intelligence agencies are in bed together. You know, the CIA was founded on the back of Mossad. It's not a perfect Illuminati-level organization. It's an organization made out of flawed people. So Adnan Khashoggi was arms-trafficking on behalf of probably many nations, but he certainly did a lot of work with Mossad and Israel. Instrumental of teaching Jeffrey Epstein to blackmail. But he was well known for having this f***ing giant yacht, bringing his arms deals onto that yacht and ply them with girls, money, and anything they wanted and running his own little blackmail show around his arms deals as he went. Epstein transitioned in his lifetime and all blackmailers have.

We don't necessarily just need these human operations anymore. We need digital AI technocratic solutions. Like the most obvious one is the Promise software. Change the game for law enforcement and justice. And they were then using it to spy on all the allied nations. Israel gets in there a little bit. the CIA is in there a little bit, and we haven't even touched on the alliance that formed with organized crime on both sides of that equation. To this day, I would argue it is still there. But I was like, I should be more educated about Israel and Palestine

before I start reporting on this because there's so much context that I don't get. So what I found... Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. Ian Carroll, we're finally here, man. Yeah, dog. It's good to meet you. It's good to meet you as well. I've been spending the morning together, talking about life, liberty,

and the pursuit of wherever the fuck you're doing. Yeah, man, whatever I am doing. Yeah, I don't know. The cop cars are already coming. They know. I hear them in the background. Causing problems. Yeah, I'll be right down.

What, you were just telling me off camera though, that you dropped out, you went to some really good schools, but like dropped out of high school because you had a health problem or something? What was going on there? Short version is that my parents were both teacher educators. So my mom was a principal when I was growing up.

So I went to this really cool little school called that doesn't exist anymore. And then in high school, I went to this like small private high school and it was wonderful. Well, I went to this like small private high school and it was wonderful. Well, I went to public school for one year and started getting failing grades because it was boring. It was super boring.

And I wasn't like some super genius, but I was well educated and I was like, when highly stimulated, I can highly achieve. And so like I went into high school like two years ahead in Spanish and two years ahead in English and three years ahead in English and three years ahead in math kind of a thing, because that was what that school did to us. And then it failed out of public high school, and they were like, this isn't working. And I went to this small little private high school for a little while that was not like ritzy private high school, but gritty private high school.

We would fundraise our own money to do our own trips around the state. It was called experiential education. Experiential education. As in get out and experience things. So you're required to teach high schoolers Washington State history. And normally that's a textbook and it's re- And they're like, put all the kids in the bus

and drive them around Washington State and let's talk to tribal leaders and let's go talk to people at U-Dub and let's see the state. So that's what it was. And but then I, long series of events and yeah, I got sort of like the beginnings of Crohn's disease probably, you know,

that runs in my family. Didn't have a diagnosis, but I got pneumonia crossed with kind of that stuff happening and wasn't eating. And I went to the hospital and was hospitalized for so long that I failed all of my classes in my senior year. Because by then- Wait, wait, wait, you failed, felt but you're so so there had been a falling out at that at that really cool school over some complex stuff.

And I had just transferred out to go to running start, which is like going to college credits at the community college. But you get high school credit at the same time. So the West Coast thing, I think, maybe. I guess. And it was it's really cool. It's a great way to get free college credit out of the way and get ahead. Skipped right over that little falling out right there. The falling out was interesting.

It was, it was neat. I'd be happy to tell the story. Please. Yeah, so I was a, I would have been a junior and we went to Guatemala as our international trip. And it's like a one month. So that school does like a longer fall term, a one month

winter term, and then a longer spring. And the one month winter term half the school, which is literally 12 kids across all four grades, always goes international one place or the other. And they do a whole bunch of fundraising. Like every, it's cool. The structure they have is every family puts in whatever money they can afford out of the total trip cost. And then whatever is not paid out of what everyone can afford is the total fundraising goal that everyone

has to fundraise together. So if you're from a rich family, you pay what you can afford, but you're still fundraising with the poor kid that couldn't pay as much, which is sick. And it teaches these kids like you're in this together, and you've got to contribute. And we went to Guatemala. That's wild.

That concept, I've never heard of that before. It was cool, yeah. And we go to Guatemala, and we're doing like gritty shit. We did a seven-day backpacking trip through the peten jungle, which is like drug smuggling, like the place for it. You get good shipping errors? I'm just playing. But we, and we were like climbing Mayan temples. We were going like with the archeologists that were uncovering the petén Basin, where El Mirador is the largest known pyramid

in the world, and actually getting tours of these places and walking with burros and guides. Super cool. But we climbed a temple at Tikal. And it was a bunch of us there. It was a sunset tour of Tikal. And at the time, I had never really done any drugs. I never smoked any weed or anything until I had just tried weed for the first time

like two or three weeks before we'd gone on this trip and I had always been like everyone had always thought I was a stoner like because I just was like a skater bro but I had always been for some reason or other thank God I had been like yeah like I'm gonna wait for you that because in Bellingham Washington can everyone is smoking weed all the time from like age three until death. And so we go on this trip, we go to the top of this pyramid and we are like, we paid the guard with the shotgun, the bribe, to go around the back of the pyramid where you can see

the sunset. And this is very normal. This is literally how he makes his action pageant. That's how it is. It's Guatemala. And by now, we know the bribing stuff. So we're sort of ahead of our teacher, we're just kind of doing our thing. He's like, Hey, you want to see the sunset on the back? It's like, and we pay him through like five q or something, we go around the back and three of us that are there first, the youngest kid on the trip, myself, and the dude that is like, well known to be the

dude that smokes the most weed in the school. Who's a total homie love him to death. And we get back there and there's this like Argentinian photographer who's clearly older, smoking a joint on the back and he just like, like an asshole offers it to three kids. And I'm going to leave names out. But my friend who smokes lots of weed was first to the offer. Actually, no, technically, I guess he offered it to me first. Because I was kind of, I mean, I've always been slightly leadership minded.

I just was like, I paid the bribe first, walked back first, I was the tallest one. He offers it to me first. Clearly I was a kid though. Like, probably shouldn't do that, bro. And I said no, I was like, no thanks, man. I know the consequences of this. Like, I was raised by teachers,

I know my, like, what's going on here. I'm not gonna like fucking do that right now. I've only smoked weed like three times in my life. That's really. So I say no. Then he offers it to my buddy who smokes tons of weed. He's like, fuck yeah. And he's just like, smokes that shit.

Sorry bro, if I'm outing you to, you know, our former teachers now finally. Sorry, he's gotta hit the internet someday. And then he passed it to the younger kid who's the youngest kid on the trip and he's in eighth grade. And he thinks it's really cool too. And you know, my buddy, he's smart and he's like, gives it to him and then he's like,

Ian, can I have your gum? Because I'm chewing gum and I'm like, yeah, sure. Oh God. I mean, you just gave it right out of your mouth. Yeah. I mean, I'm not the one who's just second chewing it. He's second chewing it. But I see what he's doing.

He's like, I'm like, whatever dude, get it, do your thing. And then youngest kid takes that joint, sits down and just like, check out this view. This is so sick. And then our teacher walks around the corner and is just like, bro, what are you doing? I don't wanna deal with this, you idiot. Nice Argentinian man.

And it becomes this whole thing, obviously. And obviously the suspicion is that we have all three just been smoking weed. But because only that youngest kid got seen with it, and I was like, I did not smoke that weed. And my buddy was obviously like, I don't smoke that weed. It became this whole thing and the kids were all trying to out each other and everyone knew that the other guy had smoked it. And there was this kind of contention in the group

where they're like, Ian, why are you, and it was like, and it kind of got pinned on the youngest kid, because he was the one that got caught. And high schoolers, it was kind of, it worked it out in the social drama of the high schoolers to be like, don't out our buddy, he didn't get caught, you don't need to bring him into this. He's also from the poorest family in the entire school.

His mom has multiple sclerosis and Parkinson's, and he is incredible. He's an amazing human. And he has no dad with him. And so the eighth grader gets sent home, and the teacher has to drive him to Guatemala City two days out of the way. It's this big old thing, huge issue. And the assumption is obviously that all three of us smoked the weed and we pinned it on the youngest kid. And so the next year, but then like the next year comes around, you know, it all but washes over, the next year comes around and I'm like, I get a leadership award the fall term for stepping up

because we had all these new kids coming in and they were total assholes. And I was like, guys, step the fuck up. This school is hard. Like you're a part of this experience. Like you need to be a part of this experience. Take charge of your education. Take responsibility for yourselves. Talking to a bunch of eighth graders and ninth graders. They gave me a leadership award, but then I asked to go on the next international trip. The principal was not down. He had a whole

vendetta and it became this whole thing. He wanted me to write a big letter about why I was an appropriate pick. It was clearly like, you did that thing last year. I was like, I didn't do the thing last year and fuck you. I was also like, you did that thing last year. And I was like, I didn't do it. I didn't do the thing last year and fuck you. But I was also like, I was very ADHD as a kid in a, in the sense. And I actually, I hate that word. Fuck ADHD. I was very scatterbrained as a kid, um, and very like a theory, real as a kid.

And so I was not good at explaining my points. I was not good at communicating and verbalizing. And I would like forget what I was talking about halfway through my sentences and shit. Um, and so I just couldn't't really, and it was so frustrating, but it ended up with me just being like, fuck you, I'm not writing your fucking essay, I'm out. Peace.

Because that's the kind of guy I am, like, fuck your control systems. And I went to this other running start thing and got pneumonia the first week, because now I'm at college courses, and so I'm graded on college standards, and so attendance is a huge part of that grade. And so I get pneumonia and I'm hospitalized

for like two and a half or three weeks or something like that. Don't they give you a pass like when that happens though? Then that situation, no, it was like straight up attendance. And maybe, you know, in hindsight, maybe there was something like that. I didn't know about it and I didn't, I don't know. I failed my last year of high school

or my last semester of high school. And I was like, so do I go back to super senior year or do I just say, fuck it and go travel? And I said,, so do I go back to super senior year or do I just say fuck it and go travel? And I said fuck it, I went traveling. And I went to my parents who were both teachers their whole lives and was like, I'm dropping out, I'm not doing it. And they were like, yeah, we know. And I asked them, I was like, hey, can I use the college fund that you guys have saved up? Which was, I don't know what it was, it was probably 30 or $50,000 or something like that. Which was, it was awesome. Like they really good with their money, being teachers.

They crushed it. And they were from the time when you could save up on that kind of salary. And I used the lion's share of it to do some independent study for a while at home. And then I went traveling to Guatemala and did a six-month teaching program where I taught fourth graders, fourth grader Mayans. So I was teaching fourth grade in Spanish to Mayan children in this little village. You fluent in Spanish?

I was relatively fluent before I went and taught. And then once I was done teaching, I was like fluent. And then I got a job at a hotel, a tree house hotel on an avocado farm, like on this hill overlooking Antigua with the volcanoes in the background where the one erupts every day. This is literally the view. Oh, on your tattoo? Yeah, yeah.

So this one erupts all the time. It's called Fuego. Acatonango is the tall one that you can climb and you can look down into Fuego as it erupts and this one's called Agua. And so I got a job there for my last month and I was fucking hooked. And I came back and immediately just raised money to go back. And I spent like my early to mid 20s just traveling to Guatemala over and over and over. Throughout just Guatemala.

Mostly, I did Costa Rica once and I did a little bit of travel in Belize. I guess that was in the high school one actually. No, yeah, Guatemala and a little bit in Costa Rica. And how many years was this year around Guatemala? I would do like six months at a time, mostly one, there's one that was I think eight months and a few that were three or four.

And it probably added up to like three years of my life in Guatemala. I'm big on, I don't like the type of travel where you like pop through and do tourist stuff and you just like graze everything. I'm really into digging in, obviously. And that really did start with this traveling of realizing that like you want to like meet the locals and get to know the culture and kind of merge a little bit, even though you're never going to know their life experience, you're never going to be that, but it's just way more interesting and way more fun. Oh, yeah.

When you really immerse yourself in it, you understand. And I didn't have the money to do the cool kind of traveling. I was working, so I would travel and work, and travel and work, and make my money that way. Man, wouldn't it be awesome if there was an online cannabis company that shipped federally legal THC right to your door? And what if that company found a way to combine THC with carefully selected functional ingredients

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Terms and conditions apply. And you're also, you ended up becoming a teacher too, right? Yeah. Level up from bill payer to reward slayer. Terms and conditions apply. And you ended up becoming a teacher too, right? Yeah. So throughout that time, I was teaching actually. And I started teaching when I was 14. My first, I was a volunteer improv theater teacher. So when I was like 12 and 13, I was in the improv club at my middle school.

And I was the kid that helped the, I guess she was a college kid, start it. And I was like one of the primary people in starting it. There was three of us. And then I was in it all through middle school, I guess middle school, came back freshman year of high school and started volunteering to help her teach it as an assistant. And then I think the second year she went off to nursing school and was like, do you want to take over?

And so I became like, I'm sure I was just paid minimum wage. But then that evolved into like teaching other after school stuff and then teaching summer stuff and then eventually like assistant English teacher and all these weird jobs with no degree where I was just like recommended by a parent or recommended by a teacher I'd worked with before and just kind of like slithering into all these different

teaching jobs that I was technically unqualified for but deeply qualified for because it was my whole upbringing. And so throughout like up until like 25 or 26 or 27 maybe, I was often bopping in and out of teaching jobs and then traveling and then back into teaching and traveling and it was a weird life. Right. So it's a mix of the international stuff and teaching and that, but then you're teaching back at home as well.

And to be fair, once after that first teaching gig international, I just went back and bartended and like did travel work, like hotel bar work. And then I got into cooking because I met this sick-ass chef at that hotel That was like I'm in the front like at the bar listening to like whatever the music was and he's in the back like raging Out to dubstep like having a rockin good time. He's like this total like hippie homie And I was super inspired and I read Anthony Bourdain's book on his recommendation was like oh fucking pirates, dude. Let's go And fortunately, I never got into like the cooking drug culture because that'll kill you. But I did get into the cooking culture big time.

What do you like to cook? I did a lot of breakfast because breakfast is fun because there's a lot of breakfast in Bellingham, so there's good work back home for it too. In Washington. Yeah, in Bellingham, Washington. But also anywhere there's good breakfast work. But it's fun because it's really fast paced and eggs are really like feeling based

and kind of non-technical. They're very like vibey. And they're super complicated to cook. Like flipping, taking care of six egg pans is sick. It's super hard. But it's also the time of day when your customers come in unhappy and they automatically are gonna leave happy. And it's actually a pretty low bar to make them

really happy. Whereas dinner service is basically like you're getting the most unhappy version of your customers where they're coming in with all their stress of the day. They're unloading it on their servers. The servers are unloading it on you and it's all fucking stressful and it's way more like fine dining. You like high like fucking like just get out of me with your pretension. I never thought of it though. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, and I did I worked some really cool dinner cooking jobs to both in like more fine dining like really artsy chefy kind of stuff.

And I like one of my favorite ones was wood fire pizza where we were throwing our own dough. That shit is so fun. It's like literally a living organism that was grown so that you can then throw it and the only time you're gonna get the experience of throwing dough in any, you know, more than two pizzas is if you work in a restaurant. Because when else are you gonna make, you know,

180 pizzas in a night? And it's so, and you just have trays of perfectly made dough balls ready for you for your perfect dough station. And I would like fight people for the dough station because it's so fun. It's such a cool skill, man. I wish I knew how to do that.

When you go in there and you see a motherfucker just doing this. And we would have competitions like because it was it was an open kitchen too so part of the vibe of that restaurant was that the customers will see you throwing the dough and so people would intentionally bring their kids to watch the dough get thrown and and so it was we were kind of encouraged to have fun with it and to show off a little bit and to like do tricks and stuff and throw it back and forth and stuff like that. And so like different people were different skills at the dough throwing and you kind of knew. And I actually have a silicone pizza dough with me in my van that I travel with.

And I travel with a silicone pizza. I got it on Amazon just for fun because it was hilarious and it was only like 20, 30 bucks or something. But yeah, you can throw it just like a dough and you can spin it and throw it and spin it. It's fun, never breaks, never goes bad. You're living out of the van now, right? Well, technically I live in Airbnbs, but yeah, my whole life and my dog

and my girlfriend and her dog all fit in the van. And we just drive to the next Airbnb and unpack, and then we drive to the next Airbnb and unpack and I'll set up my studio and whatever I got, and it's fun. It's not have a Gabby Petito situation. I don't know that story. Is that the one that where the person murdered her or something? Dude, that's so that's what her dad said to me on the first day that I met him. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, but it sounds important.

Close quarters. You gotta be careful. Don't be getting fights and stuff. It's close quarters in there. You got to be careful. Don't be getting in fights and stuff. That's really cool. Your timeline is... It's nice to hear about your eclectic background too, all the different interests. It makes a lot of sense too.

But your timeline is you started making content mid 2023-ish, something like that. Yeah, May 2023. We're at like the two year mark right now. We're at the two year right now. Almost exactly. Yeah. So, you know, you're doing all these other things before that, but you get thrown into this world because you grew very, very quickly. Very quickly. And I would imagine you didn't expect anything. No, not at all. I mean, I hoped, but I didn't even really hope in the sense that, anything. No, not at all. I mean, I hoped but I didn't I didn't even really hope in the sense that, like, I wanted to

make a career of it. But I also knew that it's going to be your job every day. So make it something you love. And you have to make that the career you can't like tamper with that just to get fame or whatever the fuck. Absolutely. Then you're gonna hate it. And it's not going to be you and fulfilling. But literally, the first video that I put up went viral on whatever the fuck it is. Then you're gonna hate it. And it's not gonna be you and fulfilling. But literally the first video that I put up went viral on TikTok. And it was a small viral.

It was who owns the media. And I got it all wrong. And I fucking like everything I like. I mean, I didn't get it all wrong, but I was obviously like completely uninformed. And I'm still, you know, always learning. But that one was it like got like immediately 40 or 50,000 views or something right away.

And then the next one again and the next one again, it was very quickly and then within two weeks, it was like something hit a million. And then by one month into it, I was like quitting all my jobs and just like, this is full-time pay. Yeah, it was like my second paycheck from TikTok. I think I was saying was like $16,000.

Whoa, that's a lot on TikTok. TikTok pays real good. Yeah. Yeah, and because at the time I was mostly $16,000. Whoa, that's a lot on TikTok. Yeah, TikTok pays real good. Yeah. Yeah, and because at the time, I was mostly on like kind of like BlackRock grocery store, subtle conspiracy theory kind of content. Subtle. Very simple and like not censored at all. And so I was highly boosted.

I was making long form videos as they were pushing their new long form 10 minute videos. I had all the right like kind of luck and some skill to just blow up really fast. Well, you also have a great like your way to hook people and tell a story is phenomenal. Like you hear the first 15 seconds of a video and you're like, damn it. Am I really the next seven and a half minutes? Like you obviously had that from day one. I was telling you,

I found you, I didn't find you on TikTok. I was basically like off TikTok. I haven't been on TikTok since 2022, but I found you on Twitter when you had like $2,000 when you were first there. And it was obviously one that reposted TikTok videos. And I was like, oh, this makes sense. And I got onto Twitter when, it was weird. I didn't realize until I got there,

but no one was really bringing that TikTok thing to Twitter yet. And I thought that that had already happened because on TikTok, what I was doing was so normal. And Joe talked about this on his show that like, he was like, this is like your thing, like pointing at the things and like, and I was like, Joe, everyone does that. But I didn't really realize that he's right actually. It's like TikTok, everyone was doing that because they have a great green screen. But not on Twitter.

But it was never on Twitter. And so like, I was one of the first guys that kind of brought the TikTok to Twitter. And I saw how well you grow if you're a video creator on Twitter, because everyone like you'll read text all day on Twitter. You don't like hit follow because someone wrote two good sentences. But if you see a good video from the creator, you're like, I'm going to follow that guy because he's the one that makes these videos. Right? It's just a much more followable kind of a piece of content.

Yeah. You got to teach us that because these videos, right? It's just a much more followable kind of a piece of content. Yeah, you gotta teach us that because our videos will do tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of views a day on our second YouTube channel, and those same videos will do fucking 10 views on my Twitter. You know, I don't think there's a real format, but I think that at the time early on and in that exact context,

the format was that yours would have been too produced. And part of what made mine go, and still to this day, is that they're not highly produced. Yeah, and they feel a little more personal and intimate, and like more story, like, cause that connects you to the character, connects to the storyline. And we, as a generation, have been slowly being trained

to just skip things that might be ads, things that are highly produced, things that feel like there's money behind them. It's like, fuck that, fuck that, fuck. Oh, this is like some random dude, right? And so TikTok really, it just forced its way in and showed a need a desire in our psyches to connect back with real people, I think because we

are over ads and we're over, you know, network television. And that and even though it's like you guys are just, you know, some homies making content, if you overproduce it can still feel like it's that yeah, you're talking about like when you run into something in the feed where you can tell like, oh, it's a studio or something that's not the dude talking to you. All the videos I've had go viral on Twitter

are me flipping around the phone and talking right there. So I totally see what you're saying. But like you also, you kind of like came together at a critical time because we're like two and a half, three years post the beginning of the pandemic. Shit's kind of messy at this point when you were first coming up, there's one crazy war going on. A few months later, there was going to be another one going on.

Obviously, we'll talk about that today. But I think that people felt really jaded. And so they were suddenly looking at things that maybe they took for granted in the past. Like, oh yeah, this is probably perfectly normal. That now it's like, oh, well what really is behind that? And you were the guy, even if it was like, I forget what you called it, but like simple shit to start. Like, oh, here's what Black Rock's doing.

Or, oh, here's what's in your fucking cereal. People appreciated that because they're like, oh, I've been doing that or a part of that my whole life. Maybe I shouldn't do that. Yeah. And I think that, um, I get called, I get called a plant a lot and I get, I get people attacking my growth a lot as like it must be controlled opposition. Well, it's a Kotori platform. I mean it is. And to be clear, um, and it's understandable. Like I would be fucking pissed too.

If I had been doing this research for 12 years and putting stuff out for 12 years and getting my accounts taken down and banned and censored. And then this new guy comes along and is not censored. But there is an element of timing that's really important is when you first enter a scene, that's your first impression. That's your like first pop, your bubble, right?

And if you do that when it's being censored, you're inherently trying to swim upstream in a strong bubble, right? And if you do that when it's being censored, you're inherently trying to swim upstream in a strong current, right? And you got your shit censored all over TikTok. Well, a little bit, but it took a while. It took a while. So the thing is that TikTok broke the censorship open in a big way because TikTok was not,

like, this is just my theory. It's not entirely evidence-based, but it's sort of experience and evidence-based that the, let's say the American Deep State, you know, the intelligence agencies and their buddies, they learned in the early days of YouTube that you can't just let people fucking put videos on the internet, that is a problem.

We gotta figure that out. Google buys YouTube, cool, lockdown, right? Instagram comes out of Facebook and Meta, and that's already locked down, right? Twitter was already locked down, so like sick, we've got this whole social media thing, fucking locked down right on bro. We've got the whole internet controlled in here. And then TikTok comes from overseas, even though like it wasn't fully Chinese owned,

like when it came over, it was, you know, not already American control, right? And so it became this big free speech platform. That's what initially it blew up on in America was like, oh, you can just say anything. And like everyone's just sharing shit. And not everyone was using that for disclosure type stuff, but once people started to use it for disclosing censored topics, there was a big niche there and people started to realize,

and that's back in the days when you could go to TikTok and that's where you really get your news was on TikTok. That is not true anymore, right? And I got into TikTok at the tail end of that when you could still do that. But I was- In 23, 20, 23. And it was starting to get controlled and so the, the project, the product Texas deal that happened, the first TikTok band time around that deal explicitly stated that we will move our database, our data centers to Oracle in Texas and Oracle will oversee them. Oracle is fucking CIA. And so thanks Larry.

And they will have oversight over the algorithms, right? So that's a pretty obvious like, okay, now the American deep state has their talents in this company. But we have to watch it, Ian. We gotta control the messages. And they did. And so as that was happening,

the censorship started to ramp up. But I was still in like BlackRock conspiracies, which are super fucking harmless. And they were mega in the zeitgeist at the time. Everyone wanted to know about the BlackRock. Well, the surface level is kind of harmless. And then once you get into the context and the depth and really understand it, I think it's complex enough to really understand the true harm of it, that they're not super worried about trying to censor that because that would just draw more attention to it than actually like the understanding

what's going on there with like shareholder voting rights and the amount of influence that actually portrays. But once I started it, because you do enough of that research and you'll wind up in an intelligence agency rabbit hole from time to time, you'll wind up at Jeffrey Epstein from time to time, you'll wind up in all these other places. And I started talking about those other things and those started to get me censored a little bit. And I started to get more interested in and those started to get me censored a little bit. And I started to get more interested in them because once like I made this video that I'll

never forget about, do you know what the Duranganga plant in South America, it's called Devil's Breath? Vice did a really famous documentary back in the day when they were still real. And it's this plant from this flower that allegedly there are different stories, like the official stories that this is fake, but all the Colombians are like, know, there are different stories. Like the official story is that this is fake, but all the Colombians are like, no, this is fucking real. And if you crush up these seeds and make this powder, it basically, you can like blow it in someone's face,

you can put it in their drink, tasteless, odorless, whatever. And it basically makes you super fucking drunk, but not incapacitated. And you can walk around and you can, and you're wildly open to suggestion, is the urban legend about it. And so hookers will use it, and there's stories from all over Columbia and South America, and it even grows up here too, and in Guatemala too.

And there's stories of people waking up in a ditch with no clothes on, going to their apartment, and their apartment manager's like, yeah, you came in here with your friends and moved out. And because they'll get you going on this shit, and then they'll be like, yeah, you came in here with your friends and like moved out. And like, because they'll like get you going on this shit. And then they'll be like, yeah, take us to your house. Like take us to your house.

Like, yeah, withdraw all the money. Like, no problem. Sign over the deed. And you're just open to suggestion, apparently is the theory. I love that phrase. That's the story. Open to suggestion. And so you can just be manipulated like crazy.

And so it whether you know, whether true or not, that's the urban legend in Columbia. And Vice did a crazy documentary about it with people on camera talking about it. That sounds like an MK Ultra term. Oh, they were open for suggestions. Bingo, and so I put two and two together at one point, and I started searching through the MK Ultra documents, trying to find primary source evidence of like,

because you know they're gonna fucking look into that, obviously, they're like trying to learn mind control. And I have had trouble refinding, this was before I was taking notes and saving all my screenshots. It might still be in my camera roll somewhere. But I found at one point a document that had the list of all the different compounds that MKUltra had tested their official list with their note with like what they did with it. And they have a section on scopolamine, which is the like the name of the drug in this thing.

And it says no beneficial no benefits found discontinued testing. I'm like, eh, no. And so I made a video about that plant and that thing, and then about Jeffrey Epstein and his thing, and about what if you wanted to get someone that couldn't be got? Just asking questions, and that video got taken down. And it was one of the first videos that got taken down,

and that was- When was that? Oh, I don't know is probably um May June July August probably like July or August or something like that of 2023 Yeah, I was early on and that got me kind of like curious like interesting. Yeah, not a lot to talk about it Let's fucking go by the way real fast as an aside It's interesting that like that was your experience with tick to TikTok because you're coming on in 2023 and things seem to be open and you can do what you want until you run into this. Cause like we had problems with censorship back in 2021.

Oh, I've checked out interesting. Yeah, with like stupid shit, stuff that had nothing to do with anything. Like you would put a video up, you could put up a video that was basically like, Hitler, here's an example of a bad thing Hitler did. And because Hitler was in the video, they would censor it. It was always AI based.

And still is to this day where AI is just screening for words and then just being a read and censoring everything with no recourse. And so that was always kind of a problem and still is, but it started to feel more and more like there was like American deep state interests being protected as well. And then the Israel thing broke out on October 7th in a big way.

And then that is when TikTok became famous for this whole censorship thing around it. And that became quite obvious what was going on. Real quick Ian, I'm sorry to cut you off. I just wanna have context here. You started this in May, 2023 as you were saying. How long before that did you start even looking into some of the base level stuff,

like BlackRock and all that? Oh, before that for BlackRock? Like anything, literally none of it. So I was a GameStop investor from 2021. And I didn't know shit, but my brother told me about it and I looked into it as it was happening and I was like, these guys are fucking cool, chill. These are a bunch of re-saying fuck the system. And some of them were making some great points brother told me about it and I looked into it as it was happening and I was like, these guys are fucking cool. Chill.

Like these are a bunch of saying fuck the system. And some of them are making some great points and making some and throwing up some great research and they were like, if you're not familiar with Reddit, Reddit is full of everything and everything in between and it is very left skewed. But in that community, those finance communities, it was like a bunch of due diligence about financial corruption, along with a bunch of like YOLOs to the moon. And I got Marley. I got real curious about the whole culture of what was going on. Cause I had no experience with it.

And I had only ever tried to trade like weed stocks like eight years before, whatever lost all my money, obviously fucking scam. Um, and so I bought a little bit of GameStop and then I bought a little more and then I bought a little more and IStop, and then I bought a little more, and then I bought a little more, and I just followed along on Reddit this whole, all through the pandemic, and was learning. And I thought when I started my channel,

because I started my channel initially, I was like, these GameStopers, why the fuck aren't any of you guys making short form video content? Because that's what the world is watching. And y'all are stuck in this little Reddit thread, and no one is getting it out to the world. And so for a couple months I was like

I'll fucking do it And so I sat down to make my first video thinking I was gonna make a GameStop video and I was like looking at a Piece of due diligence that some other person had researched and wrote and I was gonna like credit them and show it and explain it And I realized that I had no idea what it's talking about at all I didn't know shit because there's a big difference between like scrolling Reddit forum and watching YouTube videos and actually knowing anything about the world. Are you saying you weren't an expert? I've well, I've never been to GameStop. So you've never been I actually have been to GameStop. I've never been to GameStop HQ. But um, then how can you talk about how could you?

Yeah, I don't know. Um, let's be clear Douglas if you went to my twitter You read my bio I don't know if he's an expert in Twitter bios or not, but maybe an expert could read him my bio and it says, not an expert in anything, but sarcasm. But yeah, I scrapped that idea so fucking fast because I realized like I can't explain this fucking GameStop thing. And I shouldn't anyways, I should start at the basics.

Like I don't know anything. And really the point of what I'm doing online is that I'm learning. I'm a regular dude getting informed about the world and doing research and just asking questions and looking to see if I can find answers. That's what a teacher is. Secret about teachers, a lot of them don't fucking know

what they're teaching you until the month before they teach it to you. They know, but they need to go back and reread the textbook and rebuild the curriculum. If you. Like they know, but they need to like go back and re-read the textbook and like re-build the curriculum. And like, if you're a college professor, yeah, you're probably an expert in the field you're teaching, but not always. But a lot of like grade school teachers

are literally just kind of like teaching out of their memory and out of the book. And yeah, and they're teaching a wide curriculum. You know what I mean? Yeah, and they need to. And the really, the skill of being a great teacher is being good at learning and good at modeling and good at sharing that process

with lots of different types of learners. And I had learned those things as a teacher and from my parents. And so I knew how to learn and what is required to, and I also knew that we have the crisis of learning in this country. And I got out of teaching, because I realized that all my students were learning

from the people inside of this thing, far more than the people in front of them in a classroom. You can be a really engaging classroom teacher, but you're only going to change your 20 students or your eight students, whatever it is. I had fearfully realized that I need to go into that thing, into the screen, if I really want to fulfill this calling of mine, but I'm scared to start. There was a five-year period there where I wasn't teaching, but I hadn't started doing this yet.

So when I did, I was like, all right, the calling here is education. And not to be like, I'm teaching you guys, because the first step is to fucking learn what's going on. Yes. So I've just been modeling learning all along. And that's why I rewound all the way from GameStop to like, okay, if money rules the world. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart rules the world. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders.

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Visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. I'm pretty sure that's going on there. Then how does money work, right? This is January 2021-ish. That's when this was going up. I'm pretty sure that's going on there. Then how does money work, right? And so I just started with- And this is January 2021-ish. That's when this was going up. No, no, no. No, well, January 2021 was when GameStop blew up, but it took me years of just chilling

and ultra running and cooking and then Uber Eats driving to pay the bills and just sitting around waiting. And eventually I was like, all right, 2023, May of 2023, I was like, I'm just going to fucking make some videos. Okay. So I didn't start making videos until much later. right, 2023, May of 2023, I was like, I'm just gonna fucking make some videos. Okay. So I didn't start making videos until much later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you had first thought about it

when the GameStop thing was happening. Not really, no, no. Well, so the GameStop thing never ended. It's still going on to this day. And it was 2023, it was still cruising. I was thinking you were saying like right when it was starting. No, no. Right when it was starting, I was like,

YOLO, dude, it's gonna moon in February, let's fucking go. And then DFV, Roaring Kitty, he comes onto the fucking hearing in February and he just drops the bomb. They're like, do you really think, Mr., that this is a good buy at, you know, whatever, $40? He's like, yes, I like the stock and I would invest at this price.

Got off the fucking call. That dude doubled his position down, millions of dollars, dropped it right in, posted on the internet and the whole world went fucking crazy. It was like, we're back bitches, and the price skyrocketed again, then it skyrocketed again in March, then it skyrocketed again in August,

and it still is, there's a whole story under there. But it felt like just looking back on it, it was such an interesting time in our recent history, but to me, when you look back on the pandemic, there were two main cultural moments that happened that kind of, like, broke the system. The first was when we were, call it, you know, a month and a half, two months in,

and the two weeks to stop the curve kept on moving the goalposts, and people were like, what the fuck? And then it moved into the whole election season, which was just crazy. That was the first one. And then the second one was GameStop, because now it's everyone's at home still, but it's the system and the system's here to fuck you. And it's the little guy against the system.

And it's such a crazy moment that we have. And you gotta shut that shit down so fast. Like Occupy Wall Street treatment, that shit's so hard. And to this day, that is still unresolved. Most people don't realize Credit Suisse collapsed. Credit Suisse is one of the biggest financial institutions in the world, one is still unresolved. Like most people don't realize, Credit Suisse collapsed. Credit Suisse is like one of the biggest financial institutions in the world, one of the biggest in Switzerland.

It collapsed directly because of GameStop, because this guy named Bill Huang, who runs a family fund called Archegos Capital Management, one of the Tiger Cubs. He's right here. He, in Fort Lee. No, she's right. So he was just trading leverage to the balls

in lots of other stocks too. But in the report they did about it, they specifically in a footnote, like kind of quietly were like, and then because of a bunch of fucking volatility around the GameStop thing, Bill went tits up. And he, one of his main counterparties was Credit Suisse. And so his bags transferred to Credit Suisse, they couldn't hold them because these things run in like one and two year cycles based upon the swaps they're using. And so Credit Suisse went belly up two years later. And now UBS, the other bank in

Switzerland is holding that bag because they had to rescue Credit Suisse. And that shit is coming due and they are still that, that is still floating out there and no one wants to talk about it. And UBS has some issues. Oh yeah. UBS is holding all of Credit Suisse's bags. And when, and when Switzerland basically forced UBS to rescue Credit Suisse because they needed to, and this was one of those systemic risk moments where the whole world was like, guys, fix this. Because if anyone goes down, if any of those big guys really goes down, everyone's fucked because they're all trading derivatives back and forth on huge leverage.

Look at the financial crisis, dude. Exactly, right? So we were looking at another one of those and it got absorbed into UBS. And there's a bunch of press conferences from the time of the executives of UBS basically being like, fuck this, like we like the fuck this. And they're holding them and, and we don't know there's no like, there's no almost no reporting or transparency about these things called swaps, which are basically like where you just trade around your shit and don't ask questions. Like it's like moving around on your plate. It's crazy. Yeah. But it's like from my plate

to your plate and no one gets to see what got moved between the plates until two years later when you open the box and look kind of a thing. And so UBS is holding all the swaps that credit that blue credit, squeeze up and there's, you know, there's stuff going down about it, but that's, you know, that'll come out when it comes out. But it was all of that stuff and watching it all happen that got me motivated to be like, you know what? There's a niche here and someone should talk about it. And when I thought I was going to start talking about it, I realized I was an idiot and I

should probably rewind and learn. And so that's why I rewound to like who owns the basic shit, like who owns everything. And then that turned into BlackRock and then BlackRock turned into CIA and CIA turned into Epstein. All right. Let's unpack that tree right there. Because again, you're starting at like May, 2023 when you go public. Obviously, this is several months before October 7th and everything that goes down there. You started the surface level stuff.

How did you first get to CIA? Was it through the plant video? You know, I don't... Oh, no, not... Well, maybe. It might have been. I think it might have just been that Epstein was in the zeitgeist and I was just kind of doing side research on him. But then in the research about who owns everything, you occasionally do these little side quests of like, oh, who's that guy that owns this company? And you click and you're like... For example, I was doing the, one of my most viral videos ever was about shampoo.

And I was looking up OX shampoo, I think. And I act and I Googled the company name, but I didn't realize that there was a Brazilian, I believe it is company under the same name. And I accidentally got in this rabbit hole of this billionaire from I think Brazil, that is one of the funniest stories ever. He was like a speedboat racer, classic billionaire, like one of the richest dudes in the world.

He was trying to overtake Carlos Slim to be the richest dude in the world at the time, billions and billions of dollars. And then he fucking got like caught for fraud and literally lost it all. And he is his Wikipedia page is hilarious, like this big settlement. And he went from like, however many billions of dollars to a negative net worth like in the span of six months or something like that. Like the one of the largest financial losses in billionaire history, hilarious. And it was so fun to just make a video shitting on him as this little side quest inside of

a video. But it's things like that where and that's not an intelligence agency thing, but it's how these side quests can kind of come out of nowhere. And like you learn about Carlos Slim and suddenly you're in the cartels a little bit and you learn about, you know, these and that and they just all are kind of like the beauty industry. You wind up in LVMH and you wind up in SDA louder, which I didn't know yet at the time, but those those things tie very closely to Epstein. And so I just I'm sort of the type of learner where I like to do a lot of diverse side quests

and other investigations and kind of get the whole thousand yard picture. And that inevitably I started to realize over time that intelligence agencies are one of the major power centers in this world, right? Because finance was obvious and that's where I started. And I do still think that the banks are on top of this pyramid, so to speak. And who's helping them with that? Exactly. And the intelligence agencies are the hired guns.

They're the jackals, they're the muscle that go out on behalf of the global banking system. And we can get all into that and you know all about that. And then there's also sort of the celebrity media culture thing that's going on beneath that, I think. And I do think it's kind of a tiered system of sort of like culture and media, politicians and governments, intelligence agencies in the deep state,

and then, and bankers are on the top and corporations, I would say the international transnational corporations that would slide in there somewhere around the politicians too. But you're also, you're also pointing out how pop culture is downstream regular culture. I mean, it's just like, everything's intermixed. It's not like these can be separate boxes. You can't look at, you know, corporation A and separate that from, you know, random fucking dude in Hollywood B. In a lot of ways, there's there's co-mingling

on everything. And like you and I were talking earlier about this off camera, but you know, there's also this weird thing that happens where you got to make especially when you're doing research on like, all right, where did something go wrong? Or why are we this far down on something? We're like, all right, where did something go wrong or why are we this far down on something? We're like, intentions and incentives get mixed up because people are incentivized to do things in a chain of 10, 100, thousand other people and they just kind of do their job. But this like road to hell, if you will, is right down the slippery slope of the actions

they're taking because they got a report on fucking March 31st, they're quarterly so they don't lose their fucking job. You know what I mean? Yeah. And to re-say what you're saying and then to take it further is you're talking about the divide of like, the conspiracy world loves to go in the direction of it's a plan. It's a plot. Right. It's all this shadowy cabal around a table planning the destruction of the world.

Maybe there's a little bit of that in some, in some regards, especially in intelligence agencies and governments, billionaires, but a lot of it is just that the incentives all align this way, and so regular good people just become a part of a system that does these things. And I would agree that every single one of my digs from BlackRock to Epstein and everything,

I find that over and over and over again. And I did find it right away with BlackRock, and that was sort of this interesting first lesson I learned, this deepening, because the surface level of the BlackRock conspiracy theory with BlackRock. And that was sort of this interesting first lesson I learned, this deepening. Because the surface level of the BlackRock conspiracy theory is BlackRock owns every company. They must own the world. But that's not true.

BlackRock holds shares on behalf of all of us, right? There's all this more depth. But when you go through that depth, you realize that the way that our current version of capitalism is aligned is that all of those CEOs of all those companies that BlackRock holds those shares of, they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders. And that's the point is that if I'm going to pitch into this voyage for Christopher Columbus to cross the ocean back when corporations were this new idea, I'm being very general here,

is that you want the voyage to be beholden to you guys who funded it, right? And if it's a public corporation where we all as in the town fund the mill, you want the mill to be beholden to the town, right? The problem gets into when BlackRock becomes the biggest BlackRock Vanguard and State Street are the biggest three shareholders. And then the banks and their buddies are the next, you know, 12 biggest shareholders of every fucking corporation in America, from the funerary homes to the water utility companies to Chipotle, everything in between. Oh, they got Chipotle too? Oh yeah, dog.

Damn it. And he's taken his multimillion dollar bonuses too. But that means that they are beholden to the bankers and the financial system's interests, not to the people's interests. That's right. And they are legally bound, the CEOs of those companies are legally bound to increase profits at all costs. And so that's where the incentive structure actually, they are mandated to put poisonous ingredients

in their food if it makes their bottom line better. They're mandated to do share buybacks if it's gonna make their primary shareholders richer at our expense. And so when Pfizer and Moderna and all those vaccine companies make all this free money off of COVID, and then you can just look at the buybacks that they did.

Like Moderna had never been profitable before in their lives, their very short career. Look into who and why they were founded. You can't just leave us there. I mean, there's no smoking gun as far as I'm aware. There probably is a smoking gun. I just haven't dug that hard because fuck it. You know, you've only got so much time and once you see enough of the patterns, like is it worth all my time to actually share it in last night, not a holiday. And Moderna just kind of like young biotech company that then is deeply linked with the CIA

in development of mRNA technology through a small company called Resilience, where the CEO of InQtel is on the board of Resilience. Resilience? Resilience, yeah, Resilience. That's great marketing. Yeah, there's another word that's like a sub a subtitle sort of national resilience might have been the original.

That's even better. But resilience is his name has the CEO of In-Q-Tel and the former CEO of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation on the board. Love that if I remember correctly, Susan Desmond Hellman. And that company works with Moderna to manufacture mRNA technology. And they made the mRNA material for all the vaccines, as far as I'm aware, for COVID. And so that's where it's like, oh, that's interesting.

But then they make all these billions of dollars off of taxpayer gifts, essentially, mandated by the government. They do all these share buybacks, where what that means is that when they have all these profits, they're like, oh, we'll share this profit with our shareholders. Great idea, right?

All of our shareholders were benefited, because we benefited. But what that really means is they're taking all of those profits off of our backs, laundering them straight back to the banks and financial systems and to all the CEOs and executives and everyone that has all these shares. And we're not getting any of that shit. So that's a way to then take all that money out of the company and give it to all the rich people real quick. And then, oh, sorry, it's gone. We gave it to our shareholder.

It's all gone. Right. So if this incentive structure is, is over and over and over, you realize that often you have good people working in a bad system and even the people with the best of intentions, like there's lots of great CIA officers out there that are there to serve our country and protect us and they work in this corrupt institution that at the highest levels, they might realize 20 years down the line that like, holy fuck, I was facilitating heroin smuggling and I didn't even realize it. That's right

I had a guy sitting in your seat there a Month ago and for the second time who it's like a rare person you'd be able to get on he was a knock which not official cover obviously completely deniable to the government and You know, he's such a fascinating guy and there's all kinds of moral implications of what he did but essentially he was the CIA's man in the cartel. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Yup. Evan Brand... And he was the chief money launderer for the cartel.

He didn't start there. He started with a—with a top four biker gang and then worked his way into the cartel. And so I had him sitting here on a Wednesday, the second time, telling the story about how he flipped a, at a top five, top 10 bank, a top five, top 10 guy, who was just a regular dude to become a launderer for the cartels on behalf of some greater CIA thing that he needed to have happen. By the way, the only reason this guy can talk

is because there was a leak in his program to a foreign agency, and the foreign agency doxed a bunch of people on the dark web like you're in Africa so he had to be pulled. So he's like one guy I look at I'm like, oh he actually, he might actually be out. You know, not just fucking people around but he might actually be out.

But you know, anyway, so he tells a story about how he did that and like how he sold this guy and basically it's like the Harvey Dent, you live long enough to see yourself become the villain or whatever. Exactly. Like the guy he's flipping right there is like, oh, I'm just a regular banker. And then next thing you know,

well, this seems like a good thing to do. It's not, but he doesn't know he's doing it for the CIA. So a week after that, I have Ed Calderon sitting in that seat. And Ed's going on one of his great rants where he's just quietly like,, are we gonna talk about this? So he's like, yeah. And how about the CIA? The CIA flipping top five bankers.

They're doing that in my country. We're gonna talk about that. I'm like, funny you say that. Had he already seen your podcast? No, it hadn't come out yet. I said, there was a guy sitting there seven days ago. He's the one who did that. And you think about this because he's one little cog

on the wheel, right? And I really, I like, I've had a chance to talk to Matt a lot off camera too, and like, he's a really, I didn't expect this, like, I kinda like, didn't expect to like him before I'd ever met him, but he's like a really deep kinda guy that definitely has a lot of scars from what he did, but I wonder, like, he talks about some of it out loud,

some of the moral implications, but I wonder what he thinks about late at night, where he's like, was this X thing, whatever it was that he did, was that worth it for a Y? Or what even was Y? Like, I don't even know what they were doing. What were they doing back there? You know, it gets really complicated,

because like you said, it doesn't take much. It takes one little rat on the ship to fuck everything up. My friend Jared Dillion has a great line. He worked at Lehman Brothers, which crashed obviously. Now wait, he has an amazing line from his book. I always edit it a little bit, but he said, there were 20,000 people that worked at Lehman Brothers. 19,995 of them were pretty good people who were good at their jobs and wanted to work

hard. I always edit that to like 19,970. But you get the point. It just takes some of the people that got their hands on the on the right ignition and they're the wrong guy and the right little room in the corner. Yep. Right. And especially in an intelligence agency where it's designed to be compartmentalized. Yes. And you hit on another important point subtly when you're talking about a knock non official cover. The other thing about intelligence agencies is they were founded with the intention, the whole point of an intelligence agency, and I say this on every fucking podcast, is that it is supposed to be plausibly deniable.

You only even need an intelligence agency when you're going to be doing things that you need plausible deniability around, meaning that if the operation gets found out, you have layers of protection to say, that't us, right? And there are some things the intelligence agencies do that they're like, yeah, we do that. But a lot of the programs they're doing is intentionally to be deniable. And so when you're researching, you know all about this is when you're researching anything to do with organized crime or intelligence agencies, you're dealing with information that is designed to be hard to trace back. That's right. And so you have to be playing this kind of puzzle piece in game, and you have to be

very humble to realize you're not going to have the. And so you have to be playing this kind of puzzle piece in game and you have to be very humble to realize you're not gonna have the full picture, not jump to conclusions, but also be willing to explore avenues that are not fully evidenced. Because it's not the same as like following a paper trail to a crime by some bozo. It's professionals that are covering those tracks as they go.

You're also finding a lot of slippages too. You're finding like a little thing that's in a random document somewhere that's got nothing to do with something. And then you're like, wait a minute, and you pull it back and put it together. Yep. And that's the thing is that it, well, the neat thing is that the history of the CIA, when you really dig into it, you realize that a lot of them were horrible at their jobs in a lot of ways over the years, like a lot of them fucking sucked and they left a lot of crumbs all over the place. Yeah, like, so for example,

I always look at Richard Helms' tenure, which is also kind of when George H.W. Bush got in, and they were pretty fucking airtight in their job. There's a whole heroin smuggling operation that happened around Laos and Vietnam that we kind of know about, and we kind of have disclosure about a little bit, but it's really not officially disclosed

because they left so few tracks, and they covered it up so well, and it was very tightly run. But then you look at Iran-Contra, which came out of one of their like protegees and Director Casey sucked at his job. And he was trying to do it all big shot without helms at the wheel and all this. And there's lots of documents that are both official and unofficial that kind of inform that.

But it ended up with Iran-Contra blowing up being one of the biggest scandals ever at that point. And so there's different eras of the biggest scandals ever at that point. And so there's different eras of the CIA that have different amounts of skill involved, and they have different amounts of tracks left because of that. And going into the digital age, for example, Epstein is a good example of one that was founded pre-digital age, but then exposed in the digital age. And so that's one where these older guys are often leaving tracks they're not realizing they're leaving.

Hillary Clinton is fucking using a private email server in her bathroom or whatever, and she doesn't even realize how many tracks she's leaving. And like they don't even realize that, you know, disguising what you're talking about by saying the kids will be in the pool, or there's like a handkerchief with a pattern on it, or like, Obama's flying $65,000 worth of hot dogs to a White House party. Those kinds of things are not going to protect you if you're going to leave the whole fucking email server open for people to find and read through. There's a bunch of dinosaurs that are getting caught in this trap right now in the pre-digital

to digital transition. Then we're getting a lot of information with that exposure. S1 C 1 And that's the other thing though, too, because we have access to so much now and we can get things exposed and read through stuff and even you know, you get recordings of things that get leaked and stuff like that. It's a gift and a curse because we get access to like people that can be doing dark shit and probably are. But then we also get access to so much that you know, when it's especially when it's compressed down to you know, viral this or viral that of this message

or that whatever. It's like anything can make it sound like it's something sinister. There was a great line, I was talking to you about Raj Rajaratnam off camera a little bit when I had him in, but from his case, I'm not going to get into his whole case right now, what happened there, he really got fucked. But it involved like the wiretaps or what buried him and the wiretaps should have never been allowed in the trial. The government got them illegally and that was proven in court. The judge admitted it and he left them.

And so that judge then, right after the trial was done, cashed in and opened up a law firm where they specialize in defending insider traders that he just oversaw a whole case on. So he's doing a frontline interview, going through the whole case because it was huge at the time. And he admitted on camera So he's doing a frontline interview, you know, going through the whole case because it was huge at the time. And he admitted on camera, he said, yeah, wiretaps are tough.

They're like, why? And he goes, because if I record you for two years, for tens of thousands of hours, and I can find a few messages here and there, maybe like you call your mom and you say, I'll be home for spaghetti by five, you sound guilty of something. And so when you mix that in with also then, like let's look at like a dinosaur, like a Hillary Clinton or something like that, with people that definitely were involved

in some dark shit at the government level, right? Now anything that we can pull of them on information later, it's just gonna be like, there it is, Epstein, or insert whatever here. And sometimes it might be true. And other times it's like, well, is thatstein or with, you know, insert whatever here. And sometimes it might be true. And other times it's like, well, is that just, or is it really? Yeah. It's so, it's so gray area, but you're right. These people, it's an amazing point, man. These people never thought about that. Yeah. Yeah. They did not expect it. And the thing

is that the people that are at the upper echelon levels, the ones that have the capability to create compartmentalized programs, the ones that have the budget capacity to pull these kinds of strings and run these kind of ops, they're the oldest. They're the ones that don't necessarily understand the digital age. And so there's a lot of stuff like that that's still kind of getting played out. But you're right that the digital age also comes with a lot of, and I'm guilty of this too sometimes too. It's a learning process for all of us of trying to figure out the line between like,

if you think you're onto something and you wanna share it, sharing it, but sharing it in a way that is not implying things that you aren't sure of or like that, it's a risky business between the difference between a real fact or a genuine mistakes of like just over extrapolating. But then there's this whole other spectrum of just,

oh, I'll get views if I just portray this. That's the problem. And I got into actually one of these little extra side niches I got into is when I'm scrolling Instagram, and I don't do enough of these anymore, I should get back to them of like, you scroll Instagram and you get these fucking conspiracy theory videos that are clearly

just a conspiracy theory video for the sake of views. And the one of the early ones that I found when I kind of came up with this idea that is not my idea, but it was like, this mysterious LLC owned is buying up all this farmland in Nevada, whatever it's like, they own all the farm what who is this LLC, and then it ends. It's like, fuck you. So I was like, I'll look it up. And I spent like a two day long period looking into this mysterious LLC that was buying up all this land and it pretty much turned out to be like a family owned company that was like a shipping logistics company that was like building out shipping logistics hubs

that was like no big deal kind of thing. But it was not hard to spin it because it was like a kind of an immigrant family name and they picked a weird name and so there wasn't a lot of documentation and they were buying up all this land and it was like spooky. Yeah. And then they put spooky music over and it got a bunch of views and it was like, eh, like, come on guys. That's the thing, man. Or maybe they were working with the mob and with the intelligence agencies and doing a

front operation. I don't fucking know. And that's the thing. Like sometimes it could be like conspiracies are so much fun to talk about and that's the problem because guess what? As you and I both well know, some of them are very real. Yeah. The issue is when we start,

like I always worry about the boy cries wolf thing, like this, which is exactly what you're bringing up. Cause if we start saying fucking everything ever is that, that's what they want. Cause then they can be like, Oh, I think they intentionally fund content like that. I agree. To flood the zone. I agree with you a thousand percent.

And get everyone to write off conspiracies. But they made a big mistake with COVID because COVID was this big one that they did to everyone that they left so many tracks in the snow that everyone is slowly figuring out to like, Oh, that was a fucking conspiracy. I think it was on purpose. I think it was too. At this point, they wanted to divide society and divided society as a compliant society. Yeah. It was obvious from the start

that it was a lab leak at least, but it's really shaping up that like, I don't think that everyone that was in the know was actually fully in the know. I think there's a lot of people that knew it had come from a lab and knew that we were sort of doing some stuff around how we dealt with it. But I don't think all of them knew that, no, it was a bio weapon we developed and probably released on purpose. Sure, yeah.

And it's crazy because like, you wanna even, like that era was so fucking nuts, like especially that first year or two right there with the pandemic, it's like, you want to memory hold this and like move the fuck on and say never again. But at the same time, it's important. I want tribunals. It's important that you, that's the thing.

It's important that you look back on it and try to figure out who the fuck knew what here. Because, you know, what I look at it as is you saw slow deaths, right? Forget even people that died from COVID or something like that, like that's terrible, but you took people away from their livelihoods, maybe their businesses ended,

and then they blew their heads off three years later. People starved to death all around the world, loneliness deaths, businesses closing down, exactly. And like that was my biggest issue with like Anthony Fauci, because from the beginning I'm like, you don't have to look these people in the eyes. You're just saying it from behind a camera. my biggest issue with like Anthony Fauci, because from the beginning I'm like, you don't have to look these people in the eyes.

You're just saying it from behind a camera. And even, like let's take his side for a minute, which I'm not taking his side, but just play it this way, where let's say he even believed a lot of the shit he was saying. He's not thinking about the greater consequences. I mean, it was the same guy who was like, yeah, we're never gonna shake hands again.

Fuck you! Like I'm gonna go live my life, you know. I mean, it was the same guy who was like, yeah, we're never gonna shake hands again. Fuck you! Like, I'm gonna go live my life, you know what I mean? And I think people, it took a while for some people, and I understand that, but after a while, people were like, oh, oh, this is bullshit. But it was like a global crash course in bullshit. And it was in bullshit in the sense of how conspiracies can be hatched from beneath,

but also in how they can be covered up from above and how they can utilize that to implement more controls and how the consequences down the line can work. And I think that, like, I would not wish COVID on us the first time or again, but I think that the way they bungled it and the way we ultimately responded over time, though, you know, God rest the souls of those that aren't with us anymore, I think that we turned it into a net positive for the long view of humanity in the sense that I think that as a world, we learned some really invaluable lessons that we wouldn't necessarily have learned

if we hadn't had, like, the media space that we'd had and the podcasters talking about it that we'd had, and the, you know, the politicians now digging into it a little bit more. Like, there's people that stepped up and did not comply and actually made a difference. Doctors, whistleblowers, all that, that because of their combined effort and still working,

I think that that is building a huge positive, net positive in the long run out of it all. What percentage of people you think learn though? Well, it depends on if I'm talking about my friends, the people I hang out with now, or like the people back in Bellingham. Well, here's the end, that's the thing, here's the issue. I was just recently at a dinner table

with a bunch of people, all different types of people. And there were all little conversations going on, and I would just kinda listen in on all these. And I can tell you the algorithms at that table Not we're diverting all over the place Yeah, and I was like this is a new this but I'm like this is just a pro I wish I could video this right now because what's obvious to you or obvious to a lessee on something else or obvious To me on something else to someone else

They might think it's obvious in the other direction and maybe on that one, they're wrong. Maybe on another one, they're right and we're wrong. You know what I mean? It's such a complex thing, but with COVID, that's why I say like, it feels like it was designed that way because, you know, like there's these little moments that happen in this podcast studio all the time. Like this seemed like innocuous when it's happening and then you're like, you know, like there's these little moments that happen in this podcast

studio all the time. Like this seemed like innocuous when it's happening and then you're like, Oh shit, wow. And then later it keeps coming back to you. And very early on, when I was in my parents' house, I had my buddy Alex Horowitz, who was one of the first guests on here. He was on for number 17 and 18 because we recorded for like six and a half hours. And this was right before the election in 2020. And at the time, he was the chief of staff of a company called Eight Sleep, which is like the really cool science beds that- Yeah, I know about it.

It's actually an amazing product. So he had been around all these big tech neradi people, like all the big funds, all the big thinkers, the VC guys. And he had such a balanced way of putting things. And one of the things he said is that, you know, you can hack culture by simulating it ahead of time. And I'm not going to say it as beautifully as he did. People can go check that out.

It was like maybe an hour into that first conversation we had. But I was like, what do you mean? And he goes, these companies, these social media companies, and by extension, you and I can say therefore, governments and intelligence agencies, which are within them, have the power to test like an impetus like Test something like if a what simulate what would happen to this subset of people right here in this subset of people here So they can see how people are going to be mentally predisposed to respond to whatever this impetus is And so with something like kovat they would have known ahead of time

Okay These people are gonna be all about it and follow whatever. Okay, these people are gonna be all about it and follow whatever we say, and these people are gonna be like, "'Fuck you, get off my lawn.'" And it's gonna divide people. Yeah. And this is one of the biggest questions

I've not answered for myself, because clearly, well, not clearly, maybe, it would seem that the perpetrators bungled it and did not achieve their actual end goal. It would seem. It would seem. Or you have to go to a whole other level of 5D chess where we are fucked and they did get what they wanted and Trump is probably their guy and we are getting slow walked into a technocratic death hole.

Oh, that just went up. And that shit's dark. That shit is dark. And that is possible. That shit is dark, right? That shit is dark. And that is possible. That's 100% possible. I don't think it's likely, but we should be vigilant. But um... Discover the magic of BetMGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at

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are the people high enough up in these dark decision chains? Are they young enough to be thoughtful enough to understand how to use these technologies to those advantages and to listen to those youngers beneath them? And I think the evidence suggests that they are not exactly that forward thinking yet, though there's a lot of people that are at that level. And Palantir is one good example of a company that is very forward thinking, very effective, very in there and real sketchy, among many others. It's a wonderful company. Yeah, doing great things for the world.

But I would argue that there is... We would be living in a very different world if like the cabal controlling the world, like the deep staters at the top of that program had been thinking that way from before covid i think they would not have wound up with like joe rogan literally dismantling them single-handedly or what if that's part of it what if joe's no no no no no no no that's not what i'm saying no but i'm just getting 1040 for the fuck of it being a guy that would respond that way is tested and it's's like, of course he's going to respond that way because he's going to look at things that don't make any sense. And he's got a big platform and call it out. We could use that. He has no idea. I think about, dude,

in our little studio right here, I think about that all the time. Like, what are we a useful idiot for? Smart man. Yeah, because you're right that what we see today, I'm saying it looks like we like they didn't win in the short term context as in they didn't get, you know, FEMA camps, they didn't get ongoing forever vaccines entirely. They didn't get forever control, you know, they didn't get the forever pandemic, whatever it is. But that's not necessarily that wasn't necessarily their goal. If they were really smart, they might be thinking more long term. And maybe some of them are maybe some of the really devious ones at the top, some of the

super billionaires, whatever. Maybe they are thinking like, we need to dissolve the truth a little more. We need to dissolve the boundaries between reality and truth. We need to divide the people more. And so they're like, during this COVID era, we're going to get our payday. We're going to get this fucking control. We're going to get some more laws passed. We're going to set a precedent, but we're also going to divide. We're going to conquer. We're going to destroy. And all that did happen. And we are sitting in that world today where my truth is not your truth is definitely not

my parents' truth that are watching Rachel Maddow. And- Oh, your parents still watch Rachel? Yeah, they do. And they love her. And I've been working on them. I've been working on them and working on them. But yeah, that opinion programming is strong.

And there's a piece baked into the cake that is so important, that is like an immune response to other information. And it's this misinformation fear of like, no, like you're getting sucked into misinformation. Like anything you're sharing with me is misinformation. Like I don't even need to read your sources because you're wrong. Like, because Rachel says that that's crazy talk, right? Don't matter that she reported on Russiagate for three years and never retracted it, proven to be false. Don't matter any of these things that they'll get wrong

on these mainstream networks or even on the alternative networks. There's a immune response built into this sort of hive mind thinking that's getting fostered in all of these sort of like sheepy kinds of ways of thinking that is super sketchy, because there's not a good way, short of like shaking them kinds of ways of thinking that is super sketchy because there's not a good way short of like shaking them out of it. Yes, somehow, which also like, how do you open

people's minds up to realizing that it's hard? It's complicated. It's really hard because people we are all we all have a tendency towards some form of confirmation bias, some stronger than others. But like you look at something objectively, you just point it out, great. You see the mainstream media get broken in certain ways with certain subject matters that they just dug in on

and dug in on and dug in on and yelled at everyone who said the opposite or even just said, hey, can we look at this? To the point that now, again, it's another boy who cried wolf. Because what happens when, and I don't have an example of this right now But what happens when Rachel says something on TV? That's like, oh, it's actually backed by exactly you and I and anyone out there

Who's like not a hardcore like pink hair lefty is gonna be like at first thought Alright, should I even listen that because it's Rachel Mano, which is why I always try to do that I try like I don't care who it is Like when I see a clip from even like Don Lamone coming on like I watch it he says All right, should I even listen to that? Cause it's Rachel Mano, which is why I always try to do that. I try like, I don't care who it is. Like when I see a clip from even like Don Lamone coming on, like I watch it. See what he says. Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, all right, what does he got here? Once in a while I'm like, oh, that was, that was interesting. You'll learn something either way. Yeah, blind, blind squirrels, right? You know, whatever. But finds a nut once in a while. But you know, we gotta be careful that, and I think about this as someone who's like

in the independent media, whatever the fuck that means at this point, we got to be careful that the same sins that mainstream media was sucked down into, we do not become on the other side. And in my opinion, a lot of that can happen without again, we were talking about intentions and incentives, a lot of that can happen without intention or bad intention or anything like that. There's just little traps that are out there that it really comes back to like audience capture. You and I were talking about this off camera.

I think about that all the time. Like when I feel something getting pulled one way, I run the opposite way. And it's just to reset things. It makes me a lot poorer than I should be. But in the longterm, that's how you stay in my type of business, like being a journalist or being what it is.

And I think especially guys like you who are looking at the most insane shit, that's the biggest battle you fight because you don't want to suddenly be like, all right, I found X, Y, and Z that's all wrong about topic T and then just assume therefore everything I'm going to find after about this also needs to be wrong about that. If you find something That's right. It's like well alright. All right. This was right You know and figure out where the fucking truth is wherever that falls I mean the most obvious example of that conference

I think there's a subclass like above a certain age like maybe above Gen X ish Millennials ish those older folks. They are way more prone to this You know immune response this gripping up against because they don't understand they didn't grow up as much in this social media environment. They don't understand that that is how to source information from the internet. Younger people don't so much have that same version of that problem. But it still is there. And the most obvious example of it is Israel and Palestine, right? I think in the sense that people and you can see it so clearly on the internet that

the vast majority of people wind up in their camp and then everything from the other side is propaganda and everything from your side is real, right? But before we get too into that, you're talking about in your side of audience capture and in my side a version of that, because you're a podcaster, people come to you, you talk. I'm like a researcher and I go out looking at sources and trying to figure out what's going on and learning and then sharing. And the obvious version of what one of those like trappings in my side of that is, is what I would call like access journalism, as in access is a hell of a drug.

And when all those, you know, YouTubers and TikTokers get invited to the White House to sit down with President Trump and to talk to President Trump and get the Epstein binders, that access feels real good. Right? And suddenly you don't want to lose that access. That's like you're in the White House. Right? And so you don't want to say anything bad about President Trump.

You don't really want to report on how RFK did that thing. You don't want to like... And that access has always been one of the first low level layers of blackmail. And it's not blackmail, but it is coercion. And journalists fall into that shit all the time. And it's very dangerous. And now, like we used to have journalists that were trained, journalists. And they were then working in a system that was largely bought out over time and corrupted from above.

But a lot of those journalists were bad ass journalists, right? Rest in peace, Gary Webb. Now we live in a world where all the journalists aren't even fucking trained. Just a bunch of random people, for the most part, that just like blew up because they shot a basketball from like the half court line or something. Or the people that are trained who are living in mainstream media are breaking the rules of what they were trained on. Exactly.

Well, what are they even trained on anymore with the state of universities today? Let's just, and you're absolutely right about that. Let's even assume it's somewhat right. There's still like, I was telling you off camera, like I'm passionate about finding the people who are still in that world who do the job the right way because we gotta uplift those voices, the real moderate, like let me just fucking get it

what's figuring out here, or what's going on here, because maybe you could save some of that. Like I don't wanna kill off everything, but at the same time, when I hear people be like, down with the mainstream media, I get it, bro. Like I'm with you in a lot of ways, like how can you not be after the last 10 years?

But it's an important narrative to refine, right? Because I mean, it seems obvious to me, but it might be worth saying that people like you and me, especially people like me, like all the communicators of journalism on the internet, the people that most people are actually getting their news from, most of them are not journalists. I am not out there sourcing stories and getting leads

and reporting the facts of the news that are new. I'm out there sourcing from the journalists that went out and got the stories. And I'm collating that and telling stories about it to communicate it in a way that'll get to bigger audiences and then sharing that audience into the journalists that got it for me. You're an amalgamator.

I'm an amalgamator, right? But without that journalist layer, all the stories dry up, right? There's no more information coming. And I think actually to our point here, the, let's just say the deep state, the you know, all these folks that would benefit from the truth being debased. They don't I mean, they they're not

incentivized to want more journalism like that they want facts to kind of become fluid. They want everything to be opinion programming and everything to be opinion fighting and everything to be culture wars and everything to be your side, my side. You know, having a strong journalistic base of integrity in the center of our country that's reporting the facts of the news without bias and opinion, that is critical to maintaining free speech and true free and true information.

And without it, people like me suddenly, like how do I even begin to source information if I can't? And like to right now, what I tend to do is I tend to intentionally source mainstream sources because that's, we know that's at least the accepted narrative. Even like, that's like the paid narrative, so to speak. And sometimes I'm sure it's good, true journalism. And sometimes I'm sure it's a little skewed by higher interests, right? For sure.

But regardless, this is the same reason why I source Wikipedia because Wikipedia is highly censored and highly controlled. And so if it's in there, and you can check the sources, or if it's in mainstream journalism, then you at least can say like, well, this is endorsed by the machine by the establishment. And so if the establishment is willing to say this kind of stuff, then like, for the exact same reason when I report on Israel, Palestine, for example, I tend to try to find sources that are coming from inside of Israel, Israeli publications as much as I can, just so that you're going directly to like, if Israel is reporting that Benjamin

Netanyahu was funding Hamas and they're having a problem with it, I feel a lot better about that than if Al Jazeera is reporting that Benjamin Netanyahu was funding Hamas. Fortunately, they've both reported on it. But that's another story. When did you let's take one step back before we go full blown into Israel, Palestine, because there's one thing we've been we've been leaving out there and people are probably want you to talk about it. The whole Epstein thing, like, did had you looked at that back when it happened at all? Or was this really really into it in 2023? No, I hadn't looked into it in any depth. I've obviously heard about it. But I hadn't really looked into anything in any

depth. Like I am new and young at this. And I'm there's no I'm not. I don't hide that at all. Um, and no, the first time that I dug into it was during that first couple months, just on the side learning, researching, reading. And then there was a development in the Ghislaine case. I think it was heard like trials is what was happening. And we were getting more documents and stuff like that. And that was when I first started digging into the documents because there was new documents dropping. And it was kind of weird, honestly, I was new to X at the time. This would have

been like late 2023. I think it would have been like the turn of the new year to 2024. Well, her trial was- It wasn't her original trial. It was like some new development. Maybe it was Virginia Gafrey. There was new testimony that was released. I forget exactly what happened. But it was like the turn into 2024, and there was a bunch of new Epstein documents and new court documents and stuff, and everyone was kind of collating through them and X was having these big spaces where all the experts would come in and talk about it. And like I had blown up on the Diddy stuff about looking at the Diddy transcripts and the, or rather the Diddy like court document

stuff around Little Rod's lawsuit. And so I kind of got defaulted into being this new kind of small, big account on X and I started getting invited into these like Epstein spaces as though I was an expert. And like I had, I had learned a lot more than the average person, but I was like out of depth next to everyone else that was in those spaces. And I was just learning a lot. And I wasn't like trying to pretend I was an expert, but I was, you know, involved in learning and it was, it was just weird to be like suddenly thrust in the spotlight and that really incentivized me and motivated me to really like catch up and learn what I'm talking about more.

So I got pretty serious about it at that point. Okay. What did you first think when you came upon that? Were you looking at it like? Upon Epstein? Yeah. Like right away, were you going, okay, this was definitely an Intel OPP? No, no.

At first, I didn't really have the context to know what to think. I think that I sort of suspected it was an Intel OPP, I didn't really have the context to know what to think. I think that I sort of suspected it was an intel op, especially once I came across the Acosta quote, the famous Acosta quote about like leave him alone. He belongs to intelligence. Duh. Don't know how else you interpret that. But it wasn't until reading One Nation Under Blackmail. And the first time I read One Nation Under Blackmail, I listened to it on Audible. That's a heavy list. And holy shit, I didn't retain a single word of it, just in one ear and out the other.

And it was by like chapter two that I realized that that's what was happening, because Whitney is such a dense writer and such a dense thinker that she's like in one paragraph, she'll like, I could make a 10 minute TikTok video about every single paragraph in that book, just showing you who that guy is and who that guy is and what that company is, because she'll just reference thing after thing after thing after thing after thing and how they're all connected. And I do think that like, you know, it's a delicate line because you can get too connection happy without like, the fortunately I know that she does do a lot of deep research to

like there are connections in most of those cases that are like there's depth and when you dig into them, you can find it. But I realized as I was listening, I'm like, all right, I'm just going to finish this listen through and it'll be like, like a subliminal programming so that when I buy the book and read it, I'll have like heard Goldberg before and I'll have heard promise software before and I'll have more like locates. I don't know if that actually happened or not, but then I bought the books and read through it a second time.

Then I read through it a third time and took notes because I realized that I needed to, it's just so dense. So now I've read like the first one, three and a half times and the second one three times and got notes all throughout it. And I still have a million things to learn from it. And I still, when I went on Joe Rogan and credited Whitney for all that work, she still came out and corrected me because I got a lot of things. I misrepresented a lot of things the way that she would interpret them. I interpreted them slightly differently. And I love some of her corrections too, because they helped redirect me on a few of her points

that were more subtle than I had realized. What were some of them? The two big ones. The two big ones were, I mean, the first one I don't think is, I mean, it's important. It's that Epstein, the evidence is not necessarily that he worked for Mossad specifically.

It's that he was aligned with Israeli intelligence factions in a, like, Mossad is just one of many, right? And the evidence does not exactly align with him being on, like, for Mossad, which is sort of a technicality. But those kinds of technicalities do matter in this context. They matter. They matter.

That's interesting. Yeah. It was, you know, some people called it a little nitpicky. I don't mind at all. I don't mind criticism one bit, especially when it's coming from someone who's way more educated than me that's helping me learn. The big one that was really useful is that she highlighted how I do a lot of looking at the first part of the thing and Epstein backwards and a lot of her book that is really

important and in some ways the most important to look forward to that is that her book is a sort of a two-part thesis. And one, this is where blackmail comes from. This is the history. This is how Epstein came up in this is the history. And then two is Epstein transitioned in his lifetime and all blackmailers have and did from the pre digital to the digital. And as we came into the digital age, they were all updating into, we don't necessarily just need these human operations anymore. We need digital AI technocratic solutions now.

And all these new AI and tech companies, he was targeting them. He was purposely becoming friends with them or blackmailing them. They were building softwares. And now a lot of these like, you know, I talked about the Paragon scandal in Italy that was just happening with you off camera. Yeah, I was on that another time. And then like, for example, Palantir is a great example of one of these companies that's very terrifying.

Unit 8200 is just, that's the Israeli NSA basically, Unit 8200 for the audience. And they are famous. They're well, I don't know if famous, but it is their open policy that they have stated before on record that they started exporting their in-house technology operations to the private sector, meaning if the NSA is doing all this tech like hacking and tech work for the intelligence community, it's like, let's turn that whole section into a private company and send it off into the world so it's no longer affiliated with us.

And it'll develop these solutions that'll change the world and make it more secure or make it more this or that. But are you really not still working with them? It's a Trojan horse. Right? And in a way, it's that same plausible deniability because once it's in the private sector, then it's not us. We didn't do it.

They did it. That's their problem. And that was how intelligence agencies were originally founded. And I come back to this point a lot that the reason intelligence agencies were founded first by Bill Donovan in the United States with the OSS, corporate lawyer. Wow, Bill Donovan. Right?

And second by Alan Dulles largely in the US, corporate lawyer for Sullivan and Cromwell. And a lot of people don't know what corporate lawyers are and they don't think about them ever in their whole lives. But if you wanted to found an intelligence agency with the least amount of inputs to get the most amount of outputs, you would choose a corporate lawyer.

Because when you hire a single high level corporate lawyer, you've hired one man and that man's network is all the CEOs of all the biggest mega corporations all around the world that do all the shadiest shit. Because those are the ones that need the best corporate lawyers to protect them from all the lawsuits that they would get if they were actually going to face consequences for overthrowing the government of Guatemala and overthrowing the government of Iran. And so when Alan Dulles founded the CIA, the traditional narrative is that he was like,

for the intelligence, like, you know, he's the founder of the intelligence agency, and he's like, visionary man, whatever, bullshit. There's plenty of evidence when you read through his history, read through the documentation, read through his words and everyone else's words, that he was kind of founding those intelligence agencies, the CIA, that intelligence agency, on behalf of his corporate buddies, because suddenly they have government sanctioned

muscle, right? And that plausible deniability is baked into that cake because a lot of those corporate connections then get utilized in that intelligence network. And so when you need to say ship some illegal guns or ship some illegal drugs. You happen to know a dude that has a shipping company or an airplane line that you can just spin off into, you know, a little shell company, spin it up for a little operation over in Laos or down in Venezuela or down in, you know, Nicaragua. And then when it's all done, just close that up, wash your hands, and everybody goes their

own way. And also a guy like that, though, too, you're talking about history that goes back to the fucking Treaty of Versailles. Oh, yeah. You know, like he's involved in that. He literally was one of the writers. Yes. Yeah.

And it's like an American corporate lawyer doing this fucking end of World War I treaty that indirectly caused World War II. Very much. Or you could say directly. Oh, it very much dictated the state of like the European banking and the German versus Russian relationship, the German versus Europe. Like that is there's a whole dark conspiracy around that that I don't feel confident is true for sure. But sure felt like they got it.

There's some weird shit. It sure felt like they intentionally gutted Germany with the Treaty of Versailles. So that all because you know, Germany is a wealth of industrial power. They have amazing resources, amazing industrial capacity, but like no one really felt comfortable with the German people being in charge of it, right? Yeah. They wanted their hands on it.

And so the Treaty of Versailles hollows that all out and then everyone comes in and buys it out on the cheap. And then he makes, and then he and all his corporate buddies make friends with the incoming Nazis. And then they build up the incoming Nazis. And then they try to overthrow the fucking government of the United States of America with Smedley Butler in the business plot.

Yeah, can you explain this to people? Oh my God, most people do not realize that in the lead up to World War II in the 30s, when FDR was president, George, or sorry, Prescott Bush, the father of H.W. Bush. The best Bush. Yeah, the big daddy Bush. Him and all of his corporate buddies, he's just a fun scapegoat

for it because the Bush family is worth looking into their ties there. Skull and Bones connections and all that. Skull and Bones is a great organization. It's the fraternal organization of brotherhood. They do amazing things over there. They help a lot of people. Thank you, Yale. Prescott Bush and all of his buddies were deeply financially tied to the Nazis. Fritz Thielsen, I think, is the guy's name that was in charge of all the steel over there.

All these different guys had all these different industries basically bankrolling the German miracle, right? Which is like, let's be clear, money doesn't grow on trees. It doesn't miraculously spring out of the ground in Germany. Germany, yeah, they did do probably some amazing, like, rebuilding of their nation from the Weimar Republic into this, like, whatever. But a lot of that is money flowing in from the outside, from these global capitalists that bought it all up and fueled that rise. And I'm starting to suspect that Hitler was intentionally their guy, and

he was just the right amount of crazy for them to be like that one. There is a case there. His party was not that big at first, right? And I am not the most educated on it and it is deeply complex to research history that far back and that propagandized. But money flowed in at a certain point and he rose and he was just crazy enough to be Eastward expansionist towards the Reds. But that was originally his only plan as far as I'm aware. And while he was doing all that, they're funding all that and they're licking their chops to

make money off of that war all over again, right? And they did wind up making a lot of money off of World War II on both sides. But all those Nazis, back to the business plot, Prescott Bush and his buddies in America had a large scale plan to use veterans, American servicemen, veterans, to overthrow FDR's government in America and install a fascist regime that was essentially Nazis. There was huge Nazi rallies in America with swastikas and everything.

And they had it all planned out to the letter and Smedley Butler was their guy, he's the most decorated Marine at the time in US history, hero to all Marines. And they were going to have him lead it. And they came to him and they offered it to him. And he played along long enough to get documentation on it. And then he went to FDR and said, look what they're going to do. And basically blew the whistle and he blew it all up.

But FDR's hands were tied because these guys own all of the industry in America. We're coming out of the Great Depression. He's just trying to run the New Deal. And he's like, I can't fucking go after them. And I'm not sure if the urban legend that might be documented, I don't know. I've not read the documentation of it. But the story is that FDR went to them

and was like, fuck you guys. And they were like, no, fuck you. If you come for us, we'll just crash your economy all over again. We'll destroy your country. Right. And so he couldn't do anything. Nothing ever happened to them. And it just all went away. But there's a whole Wikipedia page on it. And then there's a whole bunch of sources that you can read about it for days. It's not secret. Just no one knows about it. It's crazy how much FDR, because he's president for like 15 years or whatever, and he comes in at the height of the Great Depression beginning and then lives through all these years that

eventually works his way into this World War. He had, learning about his life more and more, he had to navigate so many back room, like off the record, we can't talk about that kind of things, not just in this country, but internationally as well. Internationally. And somehow was still able to like keep America afloat and then there's questions with kicking the can down the road right there with programs he put in for sure.

I can go to the gold standard just to begin on that. But, you know, tough situation for him to take over and then is able to, you know, be the leader in World War II, which ended up being good for us in the sense that he was someone who did defer to the generals, which I think was very important in that being litigated. But you're raising a really important point here

in that it all just comes back to, they were just business ties that were advantageous, and so business wants to pay off what? Politicians, as they always do, that would include world leaders in any place. If this guy's useful, then fuck it. Because eventually, when we had to get pulled into World War II after Hitler declares war on us, after Pearl Harbor and all

that, these guys were more or less like the Dulleses were like, all right, OK, all right, we'll go to war. But they weren't like, all right, let's go kill some Nazis. They were much more concerned about communism in the USSR than to your point. If you look at the history, like the bad history of like CIA and shit like that, it always leans on the fascist direction, not the communist direction.

Yep. And I suspect, and there's lots of documentation to support this. I suspect, so bankers went international back in like the 1600s, 1700s, and like, hate to say it, but the Rothschilds were the poster children of that. Didn't the Medici's kind of do some shit though in the 14th century that did that?

I am not as educated about the Medici's, because it's just such a deep dig and it's way back. But yeah, there's these banking families, right? And so banking families have started to realize that if we have banks in different areas, especially in different nations, and the Rothschilds makes a lot of sense because they were Jewish in a time when they were somewhat, depending on the nation at the time, and it's very complicated history, they were not welcome in all places and they were not welcome in all trades. And so the Rothschilds naturally wound up with a with their family spanning many nations owning large banks in many nations and

Somewhere around the Napoleonic Wars They're starting to fund both sides of wars a little bit and profit off of both sides a little bit and all the rest of The bank just starting realize like that's a fucking good idea Right and by the time World War one rolls around, like, I don't know how to like, it's every bank in the world's involved in that. Exactly. Right. And so it's you start to have like the the international banking cartel at large, and I'm not saying that they're all Jewish at by let's just clarify. Right. The international bank cartel at large is starting to realize like we can fund both sides of every war and that'll be dope. And I think from World War One onwards,

that's basically basically the program. That's what happens today with all your mainstream companies and everything. When you talk about the military industrial complex, it starts with the banking. And then that gets, it sort of gets leveled down and leveled down and leveled down. And now you have this sort of rebuild capitalism, disaster capitalism, where it's like, oh, we can make money off of the rebuild of Iraq, not just the... And let's be clear, Iraq was not the first time they did that. It was just the first time in my life that I, like, we saw it. And so there's like layers and layers

to capitalists, corrupt capitalists, to be clear, realizing that they can profit off of all the evils in this world, even more so than all the good in this world in a lot of ways, right? Far more profitable to have war. And the problem is that once World War I ends and all of these bankers have all of this money coming in and their profit incentive, like their fiduciary duty is to keep the checks flowing. How are you gonna keep the checks flowing when last year you had $40 billion,

I'm making up numbers, but in profit off of all these arms and bombs and endless destruction of, because everything that gets destroyed has to get rebuilt and had to get built in the first place. And so suddenly your bottom line just vanishes. It's like, well, how do we start the next war? Right. There was this guy, Henry Abbott. You ever hear of him? I might be confusing the Abbott part with other Abbott's cause there's like, there's a couple.

He's a modern day journalist who was a sports journalist actually. Oh, I don't think I know about it. All right. So he ran this blog. I used to read this like years ago called True Hoop. It was, I think it was still called True Hoop when it was with ESPN and then ESPN laid off like the whole company. And so he took it off on his own. I want to say he put on Substack or something like that where it was behind a paywall. So he starts this investigation, like maybe this is four or five years ago, where the NBA had been purchased, a few teams had been purchased by guys with ties to Apollo Global. And so obviously Apollo Global, Leon Black funded Jeffrey Epstein to tune to $257 million in

the last five, six years. Was alleged of having a Down syndrome child. I don't even remember that. Maybe I read that at some point. Real scumbag. That's crazy. There was mainstream reporting about that one. Yeah.

Do we have good evidence on that kind of thing? I mean, that's a crazy... That's sick. I mean, it's tough to say. And I would have to be looking at the article to recall just how solid the evidence on it is. But it was widely alleged in mainstream reporting, at least I can say that for sure. Either way, a guy that seems certainly like a piece of shit even before an accusation

like that. So Leon Black, obviously in charge of the company, a few of his guys, co-founders, people that were involved, like the Sixers are owned by Josh Harris, who actually, I wanna give Josh Harris some props on this. He was supposed to take over the company from Leon Black. He was a co-founder, he was always gonna be the guy who took it back, and he got pushed out because when the Epstein stuff came out,

he was like, what the fuck? Like, we're not doing this. So I have to give Josh credit on that for sure. Hard to walk away from something like that over morals. There were other teams, the Atlanta Hawks was one of them. Maybe there was one other as well that were involved. And so Henry found some sort of thread between Apollo vis-a-vis Leon Black and Epstein. And long story short, he pulls

on this thread and suddenly ends up writing this like 25 section, they're all like chapters, like full blown chapters section on like tying everything together, going all the way back to like Prescott Bush. And oh yeah. I want to read that. Oh, you got to Prescott Bush. And, oh yeah. I wanna read that. No, you gotta go read it. Oh, shoot. I've never seen him go and talk about it on shit before. Yeah.

I mean, maybe he has, but... Get him in here, dude. We should. It's incredible reporting. And when you see this and you're putting these names together and his sourcing was actually really good too. And he was trying to be careful with, like, all right, could this go to that? Could this go to that? And he would explore it like each topic by topic. He's got a chapter called like Steve Bannon. Yeah. I read that. You're like, holy shit. Right? And then he's got a section called like, Dulles in World War II and stuff like that. And you realize all of it in some way, even if we don't

know exactly where it lands, it does tie together. And there's no way to say at this point, to go back to the original point we were making here, there's no way you can possibly look at the Epstein case and say, oh, that had nothing to do with an intelligence. So of course it did. And I appreciate, I guess, like Whitney's clarification

on like the semantics around it, but depending on whatever one it was, my belief is that it was associated with Masad. Either way, like there's some serious access going on with powerful people who are being put in the most horrible positions, some cases because they want to be, other cases because they get trapped.

And this guy's at the middle of all of it. And also, by the way, maniacally careless about his own sick deprivations along the way of doing it. He didn't even try to cover up the fact that he was like doing disgusting things. And then he got let off the first time he got caught, and that just emboldened him more, I think. And it's important to clarify too that it's like, yeah, he was tied most directly to Israeli intelligence. And when you look at his network, it's all Jewish billionaires whose whole lives are devoted to Israel for the most part, like Leslie Wexner being a prime example, his closest network of highest level like benefactors and bosses, so to speak. But all these intelligence agencies are in

bed together. You know, the CIA was founded on the back of Mossad. They've been leaning on Mossad ever since their first day as an agency. They're not super different, though they do serve sort of different interests at the more granular levels for sure. You know they hate each other though, right? Oh, I would imagine that most of those officers hate each other, but do the higher ups hate each other? Do the banker overlords that kind of have a lot of influence up there, do those sorts of folks that, and banker overlord sounds really conspiratorial. What I mean by that is like, there are people that can walk into the CIA director's office with a single phone call, right?

Yes. And those people have a lot of influence over the whole organization of the CIA, whether we like it or not. And they shouldn't, but they do. And so that those higher level positions, I'm not sure they would necessarily share those same grudges that the regular officers and people in that organization would. But I don't know, right? I just know that for the history of the CIA, there's a long history that's pretty well

documented of, we don't know how to gather intelligence on fucking the USSR because we can't get anyone in there. But this Jewish agency, because the thing about Mossad and about Israel in general is that Jews are so unique in that they are a diaspora people. They're everywhere, right? And they are already pre-blended into every culture in the world for the most part, although they're deeply reviled by many of them

and treated like shit by many of them. And there is a whole long story there, obviously. But for that reason, Mossad and Israel, they have Jewish people in lots of these countries that need to be spied on that already blend in, that already have the same skin color, that already have the same cultural background that are already there.

And so the CIA, for a long time, was just going to Masad and buying intelligence. Because the CIA couldn't get someone into fucking Africa, but Masad already had people in place in some situations. So like, and that is a repeated story, and Angleton, James Jesus Angleton, is a key link right there. I mean, Angleton. Can you tell people who he was? James Jesus Angleton, is a key link right there. Angleton was tied to them at the beginning, yeah.

I mean, Angleton- Can you tell people who he was? James Jesus Angleton was the counterintelligence czar in the early, you know, first couple decades of the CIA and he's a instrumental figure in the CIA's founding and history. Yes. And particularly he's an instrumental figure in the Red Scare and in the CIA's relationship with Russia, well, the USSR, because counterintelligence meaning he was in charge of, you know, counterintelligence against the USSR, infiltrating us, spying on us.

He was trying to spy on the USSR and spy on, like, block their spies, right? And he was, when you read the actual documentation about him, he was deeply paranoid about USSR moles to the point of psychosis in a certain way. Like, my words, not, you know, but he, like, to the point where I, my personal theory is I suspect that he was creating Red Scare where it didn't exist in order to create a smoke screen for all sorts of other dirty operations.

And a lot of pro-Israel kind of stuff kind of linked into CIA operations at the time, because his allegiance was clearly dual in some regard. And I don't necessarily mean to say he was for sure more loyal to Israel than America, but there was certainly a strong allegiance to Israel and Israel honored him with this like big ceremonial grave. He's like a hugely important figure in their history that they love and respect very much. Yeah, that's true. My I don't know. I'm open to that, like studying his life. My read on it was

more he thought that they were really useful for things he did and then in the process also got used and maybe didn't realize it. I think I actually would agree with the word you used there of like a psychosis towards it. I think that's probably very fair because they, he was one, like we were saying earlier, he was one of those founding guys who, they just reviled communism so much that it would blind them in anything else where they could have, you know,

overlook something. He could not get people into the USSR. The early CIA was completely inept at getting any form of solid intelligence on the USSR. But the other aspect of the early CIA and the legacy of ashes does a great job of elucidating this with primary sources to back it up, is that the CIA was on pins and needles

for its whole like first three decades of life because like They were not in not every president loved them right like right from the very start it was like They didn't even have a mandate for the first couple years of like what are we even doing? They had no authority they had no budget at first and they there's there's the future of the CIA was in no way certain and A lot of that is the history of Alan Dulles sort of fighting for that future. Right? And so they needed to be producing evidence and information, right?

And for a while, they just would lie and they would make up evidence. And if they could, or they would buy them, they would just like, because they needed to show the utility, right? And Angleton, I think, my understanding of the history is that a lot of Angleton's information was either made up or deeply cloudy,

or he would like deeply exaggerate. And Wiener actually cites like direct quotes from official documentation, where he would say he had 40 sources in the USSR. I'm making up numbers, but Wiener has the real quotes. Like he would say he has all these fucking sources in the USSR when he has like a garbage man and a radio worker or some bullshit, right?

And the whole point of that is that like, A, is understanding the frailty and ineptitude of especially the early CIA as well as like the mid, you know, it's not a perfect like Illuminati level organization. They are just, it's an organization made out of flawed people that are deeply corrupt in a lot of ways at the top. And so understanding that is a really important layer of color to understanding why and how they did what they did throughout their history and being founded, right?

Yeah. And I think, you know, you pointed out that there's ties there at the beginning where like it kind of comes together and it's like, okay, CIA, Mossad. There was also who the hell was telling me this? Someone recently was talking to me about this, who would know? But they were explaining how like, oh, I think it was Pustamante. He was like, a lot of the tactics worked. It was a one-way street. A lot of the tactics at CIA were taught to Massad. Massad took that and ran with it, and they didn't come and teach us their tactics or whatever.

And then they would do that to a lot of different places, and that's how they developed so strongly at the beginning, and they didn't come and teach us their tactics or whatever. And then they would do that to a lot of different places. And that's how they developed so strongly at the beginning after the founding of Israel. And it's also important to note that, to their credit, the founders of Israel were fucking savages. They crushed because they were fighting for their very existence.

And they had just come out of a revolution of what I would characterize, and Israel later characterized as terrorism. Talk about the Irgun. Yeah, the Irgun and the Lehi, and to a certain extent, the Haganah. Where of what I would characterize and Israel later characterized as terrorism. I'm not the air gun Yeah, you're gonna the Lehigh and to a certain extent the Haganah And they were and like and they were revolutionaries fighting for their lives and their their whole people in their whole religions existence And so they were Experienced in a way that the early CIA officers were fucking not the early CIA officers were like green kids from America

Yes, that had cushy ass lives that had never, I mean, some of them were war vets from World War II and stuff like that. But Bill Donovan had run a fucking wacky ass OSS organization in World War II. He was like trying to strap bombs to bats to go like bat bomb the world. And then like they accidentally fucking put the wrong fuses on and all the bats exploded on the runway. Shit like that where it's like, if you were in the OSS during World War II, yeah, you were hearted, but you were hardened in this, wacky way that was not the same as successfully founding a nation in the most hostile territory in the world, right?

You got chewed out. I've been chewed out before. So early Israel was made out of very shrewd people that had a lot of very strong experience in my understanding, whereas the CIA did not. And so there's a funny imbalance in those early days, and we haven't even touched on the alliance that formed with organized crime on both sides of that equation early on, right?

As in the CIA- Yeah, can you explain that? So right from the, so A, before you even get to the CIA, J. Edgar Hoover, the founder of the FBI, he was compromised from somewhere in the 30s and 40s when photos were acquired by Meyer Lansky and the mob and then obviously shared with the mafia and all that. He was cross-dressing.

Yeah, mob and the mafia. He was a cross-dresser that liked boys and particularly his gay lover Clyde Tolson who was the second in command and it was an open secret in the world of the FBI and beyond. But then he started to be blackmailed by organized crime, mob and mafia. And then he started throwing these cross-d dressing parties at the blue suite in the Plaza Hotel and possibly other places. We don't know. That's just one of the most documented cases.

And so he was throwing these blackmail parties where he was collecting blackmail on everyone else because he was fucking super paranoid and super blackmaily. But they were all thrown getting blackmail on him the whole time too. And so it was this like blackmail alliance between the FBI, which is the law enforcement organization that is designed to go after the mob and the mafia, and he's working with them from that day forwards basically. You kind of wonder why suddenly the mob and the mafia go from like, I mean, A, prohibition really helped because they're a bunch of little gangs and then suddenly all these gangs that

are running like just running clubs and all this stuff make liquor illegal and they suddenly become an international crime syndicate. It was a gold rush. Right. Yes. They get super fucking rich and then they get blackmail on the FBI, which is supposed to be policing them. And then they just go ham through the whole and that's where we get all these mafia movies,

all these mobsters, right? All these Tommy guns. How we get that skyline. That's how we get Las Vegas, right? So we get Hollywood and the music industry in a lot of senses. All that money just flowed into forming this modern American system. To this day, I would argue it is still there. The FBI was deeply corrupt already and in bed with the mob and the mafia.

But then when the CIA was founded, one of their first operations, because CIA, yeah, and ideally they were supposed to just be providing a newspaper of information. That was sort of like the first, you know, ask. But what Dulles always wanted was covert operations, the ability to go overthrow governments on behalf of his corporate buddies, for example. And one of their first operations was in Italy,

because Italy was, you know, Mussolini and World War II. Italy, not to mention it's the seat of the Vatican, the seat of Catholicism, the seat of this Western ideal. So you can't let that fucking fall to communism. So it was like the second or third year or something like that. They go out to fix the elections in Italy and that was basically just them passing duffel bags

full of cash to mafia. And the mafia just going and paying off a whole bunch of politicians and buying the elections. And they won. It would have been like 47 to 49 something like that again This is Khaled vitsini after he helped them across Yeah Yeah And wiener has a great section on that early on in his book and that was one of the first times like it was one of

The first CIA operations he claims it was the first official CIA covert operation There's debate dispute dispute about which which, which came first, the overthrow or the overthrow, because then they quickly went to Guatemala and overthrew Guatemala. A little less organized crime involved in that. But. Yeah, there's some interesting stories

with the president there. Yeah, but I mean, I already skipped over Operation Underworld where the OSS during World War II. Lucky Luchano. There's this boat, I think it was the Lusitania, right? That blew up in, I might be borrowing Lusitania from another story here. But there's a, you're right, a German U-boat. There's this giant boat.

They blew up a boat. It had to do with like the new, it's coming back to me, it had to do with the New York ports and everything. So Lucky- It was in port there, yeah. Yes. Lucky Luciano is up in Siberia at this point at Danimora. He had been, he's the most powerful mob boss

probably in history, but he's up there. He had been put there on tax evasion charges by what's his face, the guy who later, Dewey, who later ran for president and lost. And so the US government goes to him through intermediaries at first to say, hey, number one, we need our ports fixed. So they did that. The mob helped protect the ports.

And the reason why they would do that is because the mob and the mafia ran all the labor unions, and the labor unions ran all the ports. They needed intel. And so the boat gets bombed in the port, and they're like, fuck, the German U-boats are coming for us in our ports and we can't even lock them down. Yep. Mob the mafia has already got them locked down just ask them to do it for us. They're patriots too. They know right. And so literally like the OSS, the US government, the state department, whatever, whoever is in that party, they just go to them and form an alliance and they basically hand over the control of the entire US Eastern seaboard to organized crime.

And what does organized crime love to do? They love to put illegal things on boats and ship them in and out of ports. So right from World War II, before we'd even founded the CIA, we're already in bed with organized crime in a big way. And that only accelerates with the founding of the CIA. And then you get things like the smuggling of heroin in Laos, the smuggling of crack and cocaine in the Iran-Contra scandal. I would argue Afghanistan as well with heroin.

I mean, there's no doubt about that. You hear what John Kiriakou said about that? No, I don't think so. In here? Yeah. I love Kiriakou. He's a wealth. Dude, Kiriakou, the first time he was in here,

we recorded in October. And he tells this whole story about, I'm in Afghanistan, 09. Good voice. I go there to investigate the poppy fields. I say, take me there. And he runs through this whole thing and I'm sitting here like, wow, yeah, this is a wild story.

It's not surprising or whatever. Little did I know, he was like blowing the whistle on the whole USAID thing. I had no idea. Yeah, right. So then like fast forward four months later, that comes out and people are like, yeah, this is a fucking idiot podcast or how did Kyriakou, and he was talking about the whole thing. I'm like, damn it, how did I miss that?

But that's, no, you're 100% right. There was some weird shit going on there. What John says is that, and this is where it's a real poison pill question. He, he, from what he found out, they were doing it to fund getting Russians and Iranians addicted to heroin. And the logic was, they do it to us. And I'm like, ooh, they would. But is that really, you know, is the blowback worth it? That's the idea. Because when you look at and you know, is the blowback worth it? That's the idea.

Because when you look at and you know, I am no mathematician, but when you look at the statistics from the time, just basic statistics, choose your source or whatever, something like 90% of the world's heroin or opiate supply at the time, because it used to be at most of it coming from the Golden Triangle over in Laos, Vietnam area, transitioned and most of it was now coming from the Afghanistan area, right? And so if about 90% give or take is coming from Afghanistan, world supply of opiates, including all the legal ones, then that implies that all of the legal pharmaceutical companies are sourcing the same opiates from those same fields that were opened back up by our same

US government covert operations over there. And so then those covert operations, those black operations that are smuggling the heroin in and out of there for whatever they were doing, they're side by side with those opiate companies, with the Sackler family and all that. It's disgusting. It's disgusting, right? And so that's that same merger of,

and this is just speculation, but like the question is, was there collusion? Did they know in advance of like, hey, you're gonna get a piece of this pie and we're gonna get a piece of this pie. You're going to get a piece of this pie. You're going to help us run these opium fields and we're going to help run these opium fields. Or was it just incidental that now the CIA and the US government has overthrown the Taliban. They've opened back up the poppy fields. They've got all the production. And then the pharma companies

come in just knowing nothing about it. And they're just buying the supply for their totally safe non-addictive opioids that killed like half our fucking generation. Obvious. Legalized cartel. Yeah. Super tragic and especially personal to our generation where like we all lost friends to that shit. We watched people disappear from reality to that shit. Yeah. And we're still feeling the effects of that to this day as we move into the fentanyl crisis, which is obviously a different beast and a different political situation. And opium is one of the deepest threads to follow throughout history, all the way from

the British Empire and the opium wars in China and shit, all the way through to today. Opium has always been one of the most powerful covert operation tools to use against countries, one of the most powerful money-making tools know, whatever it is you're funding. Like there was a time, I'm going to forget the statistic, but they're like back during the British Empire, when they were smuggling opium from India into China, and then later the open wars came up, like, I think I forget the stat, but it was something like 20% of the British Empire's money was income from opium sales. Huge percentage.

Holy shit. Double check those numbers. It is in one of the Wikipedia pages about that whole thing, but obviously you need to go deeper to get like, I'm sure there's variance on the stats. But it- Either way, it's an uncomfortable number. The British Empire made a fuckload of money off of opium back in their colonial days, and that still is a story to this day.

Yeah, it's especially when you get into like today with like what you brought up the Sackler stuff it just it makes your stomach turn because again that's where you talk about the corporate interests having deep ties to be able to get things done like there's a prime example right there. And that one's personal to us but but like you go to, you know, Nicaragua and the Iran Contra scandal and the crack cocaine epidemic. And if you're a black person,

that's probably deeply personal to you, right? I didn't grow up around crack. What's the headline there? It was like the CIA investigated itself and the crack epidemic and found no wrongdoing. Whoopsies. Gary Webb shot himself in the back of the head two times. I mean, it wasn't the back of that.

He shot himself in the head two times and it was a suicide. Nothing suspicious about that. He's the journalist that reported on it all. There's a great documentary called Dark Alliance. Same name as his book about it, same name as the original reporting about it. Jeremy Renner, I think, started that, right? Great movie about it. Very close to fact.

And yeah, rest in peace, Gary Webb, because it's those types of journalists that push the narrative a little closer and a little closer. You see the Netflix documentary series called The Octopus Murders? Oh, did you talk to them? No, Danny talked to them, right? Super interesting documentary, very well done. Did you also notice that they probably intentionally, I don't think Danny asked them about this. Talking about Danny Jones, by the way,

it's a great podcast from early 2014. Great podcast, good dude. They purposely, I assume, left out all of the myriad connections directly into the FD network that come up in that storyline. Well, why don't you bring them up right now? And well, there's a lot of them that I have not had the time to even fully tease out, but like the most obvious one is the Promise software, right?

The whole prompt, so like the Promise software and the Inns law affair is sort of the impetus for Casolaro's original investigation. The journalists give people context. So back in this is a Promise software was nineties or eighties, right? It was nineties, eighties. It was one of the first computer programs before we even had home computers. And it was the software that was developed by this company named Inns Law owned by this dude whose name I'm forgetting. That it was designed to be like a legal system

catch all. So you is the first time when you could have a database of all the criminals and all the things they've done and all your court cases and all your investigations, you kind of search things and find information back before computers were a thing. Fix this whole paper records problem, right? And that's revolutionary. Change the game for law enforcement and justice and always. And this private company owned by this dude, invents it and is going to sell it. And there's this whole like weird attack where like the American government basically like legally attacks him until he just died like dies of Lawfare and they steal the company from him steal the software from him

And then it kind of gets passed around and dark in dark hands and Epstein is in that Storyline a little bit, but I don't have enough on the top of my head to really elucidate it. It is deeply explained. Well, it is well covered in Whitney Webb's book and in other places and he's involved. But Israel gets in there a little bit and the CIA is in there a little bit and Israel actually bugged and you know, maybe they're a high level CIA guys involved in the bugging of the software too, but Israel bugged that software and then it was sold to all of these allied nations. And they were then using it to spy on all the allied nations, like justice program software so that they can then see all of their databases and all that shit.

And it's one of the first examples of sort of like tech espionage. And it ties in deeply to the whole octopus murders case because Cassilero got onto that investigation. He's this journalist back then. And he started, well, I guess he was like 90s, right? 80s, he got on it later on. Well, yeah, I think he started looking at it in the 90s, if I remember correctly.

Please correct this in the comment section. I haven't seen the doc in like a year. Yeah, and he got on it and he got too deep because it goes all the way deep down into all these other directions and ran contra. And really what I think, so I rewatched it recently with more context because every time you, I learn every day and I always learn more when I rewatch these things, when I reread things because Iran Contra was a cocaine smuggling operation designed to fund the arms trafficking

to the Contras, right? Because they need the CIA, these intelligence operations in general, they need secret money in order to fund programs they're not supposed to have. And the arms trafficking they were doing, they weren't supposed to be doing that. They weren't supposed to be funding the Contras. And so they needed money and they were selling drugs to get it because that's money that you never had for arms you never sold, right? And so what I'm pretty sure that documentary elucidates is that it was a meth operation

that was involved in the same funding. As in the cocaine and the Contras was all South and Central America kind of stuff. But this meth operation, Michael O'Connor-Sciutto, there's allegations involved in that case that are mentioned in the documentary that talk about meth and about like drugs and stuff like that.

And it's like out in the desert and stuff like that. And it starts to imply to me when I rewatched it all, it's like it looked like that was an uncovering of another arm of the similar operation of selling drugs to fund that weapons system, black, whatever was going on there. And I think it was meth. And there's weird bodies that drop everywhere too.

Tons of bodies that drop, weird murders that never get solved, covered up all over the place. And Rekana Shudo is sort of the main weirdo, kind of you don't know who he is, star of the show. He's cagey as hell in every direction, and it's because he's like deep in the middle of all this and knows what's going on. And just to go back to the beginning,

so I understand the context, you're saying Epstein came into contact with the Promise software. Epstein was deeply involved in the Promise software. Well, deeply involved is probably an overstatement. Well, it would have been in the, like, I think it was the 80s. It's been a while since I've looked into Promise. I think it was late 80s or early 90s.

My understanding, and I am misremembering, Whitney will probably correct me on this, is that he was a little early in his career when the Promise software was happening, but he arises in that story. And then that's just one element. And I don't remember, I would need to do a dig and like make the video to have it deep in my memory. But there's a number of times that documentary when you're like, oh, that also ties a little bit to the FC network there. And oh, that name comes up in the FC network there.

And it's like, because all of these intelligence agencies so often are working together, and all the organized crime units are so often working together that when you get deep into these kind of holes, you often start to see little windows out into other directions. And you never know concretely what you're seeing.

You just know this is the evidence in front of me, and that implies some things, but you would need to follow that and dig and do you're seeing, you just know like, this is the evidence in front of me. And that implies that some things but like, you would need to follow that and dig and do like that casselaro style journalism that is really dangerous to do to actually like, you know, get concrete about what really is going on there. But the shape is definitely one that and it's just a documentary that's really fascinating, really well done,

everyone should watch it. And it's it's a shape of where it's like, if you kind of know what you're seeing, it's like, whoa. But the more you know, the more you start to see other stuff that they touched on, but didn't quite open up all the way. I want to go to the timeline here, though, and see what you think about this. Because obviously, you're constantly

pulling on threads as they tie back to Epstein and everything. You've looked at this like crazy. And it's a case. it's like an onion. You keep peeling it. You never even feel like you're getting deeper. There's like no end in sight. But there's something I think about a lot that I don't have proof for what I'm about to say, but it's an interesting thread and I'd love for anyone out there, you, people

to look into it. It's something I kinda put together from an old podcast that happened. So this reporter, Tara Palmieri, did a couple amazing podcasts, this is probably back in like 2020, when she was, I wanna say she was working for Politico at the time, mainstream journalist,

and one of them was like called Epstein, and the other one was called like the Maxwells. And in the Epstein one, her, you know, she's like recording herself going around like almost live vlogging, but audio. And she had Virginia Roberts, Shufre, who we should talk about because she just committed suicide big air quotes rest in peace right there, who was doing all this with her. And one of the people they would go to people's houses, like they went to, what's the chef's name again? The guy who was the celebrity chef who was Epstein's chef in 99 to 02.

I don't remember. Can we Google that Joe Epstein chef, Epstein celebrity chef. And then he was like out at Zorro Ranch and everything. He's alive. Who's on, he was on Joe Rogan like five years ago. Oh, I'm, I'm thinking of Obama's personal. Adam, Adam Perry Lang. That's it. Oh yeah. So like they went to try to approach him. And you know, he remembered Virginia, but like he ended up not talking with them because that's like, I don't know,

I guess like your guess is as good as mine. But they go and approach the housekeeper, the guy who managed the house, who was like, I don't remember, it was Guatemalan originally or Honduran, something like that from South America, had lived in America for a long time, and he managed the house in New York and I believe he traveled

back and forth to other houses sometimes. And I had simultaneously, like, anger and empathy for this guy at the same time, to his credit, when they knocked on the door and she was like, it's Virginia, remember me? He's like, oh my God, Virginia. He let them in and then let them record him. And I never taught, you've never heard this before, I assume, right? I think that I've heard Ryan Dawson report

on this interview is why I think it's ringing a few bells, but not super strong. Cause a lot of what Ryan Dawson shares these days is in verbal, in like live spaces and in video interviews, as opposed to in written form, that's easier to like hold in my memory. So it's ringing bells, but I have not dug into it at all. So there's a lot going on there, but I want to highlight one thing here. He talks about, I believe he said 1992, he goes, yeah, so I was working with Jeffrey

a little bit in like 89, 90. He was doing smaller things for him. And he goes, and then like 1992 things got crazy. And they're like, what do you mean? And I'm paraphrasing here, people go review the podcast, but he's like, you know, he got really rich. Like, what do you mean? He goes, well, he gets the private jet. He suddenly he's living in the big apartment. You know, he's got fucking this everywhere. I never knew what he was doing, but he got really rich. And it was just like it was he's like it went from zero to 100.

He didn't say that, but he used like a phrase like that. He said, hey, fucking escalated fast. Now, his net worth was estimated to get to like 450 ish million. If I if my memory serves me correctly back then, right, in that area. What happened in November 1991? What do you mean? Well, there was a boat off the coast of Africa and Maxwell committed suicide.

Now this is Robert Maxwell, who was not a good guy by all intents and purposes. He was obviously a very talented spy. Like a triple agent spy, like, you know. Very bad guy. But Maxwell, whether you like it or not, was in charge of the fucking Daily Mail. He had other businesses behind that as well.

And what happened after his death conveniently? I mean, suddenly we have a new boy. Not just that. He left behind a $450 million pension scam at the Daily Mail, and he was allegedly destitute, didn't have any money. His sons get put on trial for it in the UK, found not guilty, by the way. All that money, like, you're telling me this guy was like one of the... He was against Rupert Murdoch and he's broke running a pension scam. And he's just genius spotting, get the fuck out of here. So suddenly right when he dies, and again,

I have no proof to prove how one got to the other. That's the thing about intelligence agency stuff. But the fact that Jeffrey Epstein went for it, cause he was living in a nice house in the late eighties in New York. It was nothing crazy. He lived on the upper East side. I want to say it was like a 1500 square foot apartment. He was just doing dirty money stuff and maybe some arms trafficking and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then Khashoggi, all that shit. But like he wasn't Epstein yet. And then suddenly, you should pull on that thread. Yeah. Well, the other thing that happened around that time, and I don't remember the date specifically, and I don't know if we know the date specifically. This is something that's in One Nation or Blackmail and several others have reported on it. I recently speak with Nick Bryant who reported on it too. He might have even been the... He's the guy who leaked the black book.

Yeah. Nick Bryant might have actually been the one that uncovered this in the first place. But that was around the time when Leslie Wexner signed over L, the limited to Jeffrey Epstein completely, his entire fortune and everything. And so it does feel like that is the promotion of Epstein. Suddenly like, you're our boy now, and you're going to run this op. And yeah, that's a good point about Maxwell and the money.

And I don't think we'll ever get the answers of what got Maxwell killed exactly, of like why exactly he became expendable, whether it was an accident or a targeted hit or a you fucked up kind of a thing. Right? Because I mean, anything is on the table with the kind of these people can love each other one day as you know, the best of friends and you know, family members, and then betray each other one day as the best of friends and family members, and then betray each other the next day. Robert Maxwell can love Ghislaine, the daughter of all daughters, but also abuse her and psychologically

manipulate her and deeply harm her psyche all through her childhood. It's tricky to even understand who might be behind something like that. That certainly is when Epstein changes. Epstein's life certainly was like an unqualified teacher that liked to go to the student parties with underage kids at Dalton. That was very inappropriate. And then he gets plucked out of that by,

there's conflicting stories of how he got into banking through the family of one of his students. Yes, that's right. It's the old allegation there. And there's some conflicting stories about which student in which family, but winds up doing the banking thing for a while, then conveniently leaves right as there's this big scandal that's blowing up that he's kind of involved in, but the fucking boss

that brought him there. Stan Goldsmith, I think it was. It was either Goldstein or Goldsmith. I'm sorry for not remembering which one, because both, there are multiple Goldsmiths and one Goldstein in the story if I remember correctly. There's three different guys all with these very similar names in that banking era of him. And it was and he this guy had risen up to become the CEO. And there's this scandal that he is implicated in but Epstein is also involved in. And as they're about

to get investigated Epstein packs up and leaves. And I presume the implication there is that Epstein kind of took the wrap, wrapped it up with him and packed his bags and got out of there to kind of take that investigation away and cover his boss, his buddy. And that's when he kind of moves into that, I was a bounty hunter for billionaires timeframe, which is obvious bullshit. That was money laundering and he was doing dark banking, so to speak, shadow banking. And that also started to play into weapons trafficking. There's a lot of documentation of him with Douglas Leeson, him with Anand Khashoggi in

that weapons trafficking era in the 80s. Also when he starts to get hooked up with Ehud Barak, I presume, somewhere in those networks, right? Future Prime Minister of Israel. Future Prime Minister of Israel. And at that time he was in like Israeli special forces and Israeli military intelligence kind of jobs. At one point there in the 80s, I believe it was,

he was actually the director of Israeli military intelligence. And so that all swirls for a while. And also, Maxwell is integral in that whole set of connections. And that's when he hooked up with Maxwell. I believe, correct me in the comments if I'm wrong, it's been a while. I think Maxwell, Robert, introduced Epstein to Adnan Khashoggi. I don't remember if I'm right about that, so please correct that. It's been a while.

Yeah. I know that it's implied. I don't remember if the reporting is based on factual we know for sure, or if it's like... Because Whitney will do... Sometimes Whitney has factual connections, and it's not just her. She's just the source I'm most familiar with right now. And sometimes it's like they wound up, we have documentation of them suddenly being together all the time, thus implying things. Regardless, he swims in those circles through the 80s and then, you know, 91 and then 92,

and then he's suddenly is into all this money and doing all this shit. And that is when Bill Clinton is target number one, basically is what it looks like. Can you tell everyone out there who Adnan Khashoggi was? is into all this money and doing all this shit. And that is when Bill Clinton is target number one, basically, is what it looks like. Can you tell everyone out there who Adnan Khashoggi was? Because by the way, that guy Henry Abbott, that's who first turned me on to this.

He went deep on that shit. So Adnan Khashoggi is famous for being an arms trafficker, one of the biggest names in arms trafficking through that 70s and 80s period. Saudi, like royal connections. And he's Saudi by birth, right? But my understanding is that it is quite well known at this point that he was arms trafficked on behalf of probably many nations, but he certainly did a lot of work with Mossad and

Israel in that timeframe. And he often, I think different people sort of portray him, some people portray him as being sort of like an Israeli arms trafficking asset, and other people portray him as more of like a freeloader trafficking asset and I don't have a perspective one way or the other on that. But he was well known for having this fucking giant yacht that was camered up to the nines and he would bring his arms deals onto that yacht and ply them with girls and money and drugs and food and anything they wanted while filming everything secretly and running his own little blackmail show

around his arms deals as he went. I'm not sure where he learned that, but that's that boat that Trump later bought and renamed. He also later bought the Plaza Hotel where the Hoover Blue Suite parties were happening. Kind of funny coincidences. And so Adnan Khashoggi was instrumental in that era, probably of teaching Jeffrey Epstein to blackmail, sexually blackmail, and probably mentoring him in some of the arms trafficking and some of the money laundering

stuff that he was doing at the time as well. And I don't know what fate Adnan Khashoggi met actually in the end, whether he died, you know, an old happy death or I don't actually remember what happened to him. I can't remember. But he's kind of a slightly older generation. Yeah, that's going now. He had a huge, huge real estate in New York. Died in 2017 at 81 years. Yeah, that sounds like he won the game. Lived out his days. Let's go down to death. All right. No. Okay.

He doesn't even have a section on his death. Go down. That's interesting. Yeah, it isn't. I assume that he died of- He died on 6 June 2017 while being treated for Parkinson's disease in London. He was 81 years of age. That's the thing is, you can never escape God. Parkinson's is a hell of a way to go too.

Not fun. No, that's rough. But it's interesting that he was, to your point, like the guy who allegedly like trained Epstein on how to do these things. It's just And then Epstein starts showing up at Bill Clinton's White House. And I believe it's his cousin. Oh yeah, Jamal Khashoggi. Oh yeah. I think it's his nephew.

He's killed his nephew. There's a whole other rabbit hole there. Jamal Khashoggi was portrayed as being a journalist. There is plenty of evidence you can find. Well, there is some evidence you can find out there, though it is hard to dig into, that he was actually Saudi intelligence, not just a journalist. But he was a dissident against MBS. So I could see that he was previous Saudi intelligence and then MBS takes over and he knows what's bad. So quick Las Vegas shooting rabbit hole here. How the fuck did we get there?

The Saudi royal family is very complicated and I am no expert, but I do know that the old school Saudi royal family is one way, very conservative, very traditional, and this is like Al-Waleed bin Talal is sort of the, you know, primary factor in that. And he owns the building, the hotel chain, the Four Seasons in which they imprisoned everyone on top, on top of the hotel, the Mandalay Bay where that shooting in Las

Vegas. Oh, you're talking about the one in Vegas, the Las Vegas shooting. Yes. Okay, because Jamal Khashoggi got chopped up one year to the hour after the Las Vegas shooting. Yes. Okay, because Jamal Khashoggi got chopped up one year to the hour After the Las Vegas shooting as in if you account for the time zones It was one year later to the day, but if you account for the time zones It was like one year later to like the hour. Okay. What does this have to do with shooting? So What's his name John I always forget his name to try to give him credit because he's such an artist and he's so fucking anal about having credit. Maybe it'll come to me. He's a

YouTuber. And he did a lot of the digging into the Las Vegas shooting. And he's the primary source where he's the guy that dug a lot of the primary source stuff up about Las Vegas shooting. But pretty solid theory that the Las Vegas shooting MBS, who is this new crown prince that, they had just transferred the crown prince title from Al-Waleed bin Talal to Mohammed bin Salman, which is a huge shift,

because bin Salman is like very progressive. He's like throwing raves these days and like thinking women should be able to wear what they want, and like all this other fucking not traditional shit. That is not cool with the old guard in Saudi Arabia. They are not down. And Al-Waleed Bin Talal invites Muhammad bin Salman

to the Four Seasons for that, like, come, because it's Passover, is the Jewish holiday, and there's a parallel holiday that I forget the name of. And so, he, because Bin Talal owns owns the Four Seasons and he's got this great suite on top of this fucking hotel there, he invites Ben Solomon there, MBS there, and this whole shooting thing happens and there's, you know, let's just say a lot of fucking weird shit going on there. And wait, he's in, am I totally not in Las Vegas. He's in Las Vegas when the shooting is going down and BS is in Las Vegas in the four seasons when the Las Vegas shooting happens and

There's helicopters flying around that aren't on the flight radars There's fucking all kinds of shooters that are definitely not just the dude in the room You can see that the footage of the body cam the window is not broken When they go into the room like there were three girls on the fucking room reservation with the alleged shooter, um, that are omitted completely from the official story. Um, it looks like he was honey-potted and he thought he was selling weapons to like some billionaire or something. He, it looks like he was like a private arms guy that was just like a gun guy that

was like, Hey, would you sell three fucking hot chicks that meet him in the bar? They're like, Hey, we, you know fucking hot chicks that meet him in the bar? They're like, hey, we know a billionaire that wants to buy some guns. Would you bring a bunch of guns here to fucking sell some guns to him? We wanna go into the desert to shoot some guns with him. So like, bunch of guns in his room because he's about to fucking sell a rich dude

a bunch of guns. This is not all proven, but there's a fuckload of evidence. What's his name? He calls himself the Sheriff, John, it'll come to me. But right after that, the Saudi purge happens, right? Where bin Salman arrests the whole fucking royal family, locks down all of Bintolal's assets, puts him in the... Yeah, all this shit. Trump later gets the royal welcome in Saudi Arabia later that year, like comes and gets the whole sword dance and everything.

The theory that is less evidence there is that Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner were invited by MBS to share that holiday in that suite with them, because Passover is the Jewish holiday that that coincides with, and there's a fucking sphinx right out the window, which is integral to the story of both of these religions of like, of Egypt, ancient Egypt and the, you know, the diaspora, the Jews and all this stuff. I'm not familiar with the legend.

And so the theory is that Ivanka and Jared might have been there. The keyword might have. And if you go back and look, Ivanka was being groomed. She was the golden child. She was going to she was fucking political like hot shit She was excellent on camera and then she just never was in politics again Just a little that she exited at the end of the term. Yeah, which is totally understandable and I think it had to do with The blowback on like the post-election with her dad. I think she wanted nothing that that's my I so I haven't actually double Checked this one for sure. So I don't know. Because and so my question for the internet that I might go dig into after this is, did she exit at the end of the term or did she exit earlier that year?

Like was she actually super quiet up until the end of the term or was it at the end of the term? Because the Vegas shooting was back in 17, though, and she stayed integral for a while. Did she stay integral all the way to 20? Well, I'm not going to quote it right now. I And she stayed integral for a while. Did she stay integral all the way to 20? Well, I'm not going to quote it right now. I believe she stayed integral all the way. But she was definitely still integral after 17.

I love it, because that would be evidence against this theory. The theory being that, and the theory is obviously just a theory. And I'm not saying I think it's for sure true. I'm just saying it's fun to fucking learn about it and speculate on. And the theory was that because if they had been there and then Trump gets this royal welcome and Jared starts doing all these deals with MBS and stuff it's like that would make some sense but regardless Jamal Khashoggi gets chopped the

fuck up a year to the day later on the Vegas shooting anniversary right and a very like sending a message way like Like, if you don't know how Jamal Khashoggi died, go look it up. It was in the Turkish Turkish consulate. He got chopped into pieces. Yeah, exactly. And they believe this is the one part they can't prove definitively. But they I think they said they're like 95% sure Ben Salman was on the video screen watching it happen too. Right.

And so, you know, you start to put two and two together. And it also, it has a lot to do with the current Saudi-Israel-U.S. relationship, because that old guard in Saudi Arabia was, was, had made friendships with Israel in a certain way. Because Israel had always been very contentious with the whole Middle East, right? And I'm not pretending to be an expert on this at all. But there were certain nations that made peace with Israel throughout that timeline, Egypt and Saudi Arabia being two of the key ones, right?

And when they made peace with Israel, that was a major turning point in the geopolitical tensions. And so that old guard of Saudi Arabia had a certain type of alliance with Israel, or at least a certain faction within Israel. And I presume that MBS would not necessarily have the same type of alliance and the same type of factions. That's presumption.

I'm just guessing at that. But he's such a different person with such different morals. Regardless, it's a new relationship of a new guy. And so I can't help but suspect, speculation, that there might be multiple layers to reasons why los vegas shooting sort of so covered up a because what they said happen clearly didn't happen what did happen was a fucking travesty and whatever it was it was not content you tell the american

people about but be i suspect that it might have a geopolitical significance to trump's relationship with israel and with saudi arabia in some form possibly in terms of what happened in just a spe like I've never heard this before So it's wild. Yeah back, but yeah, um Man, I really wish I could fucking remember bro's name He's like one of the guys that's like so deep that his content is so long form that it's like takes forever To get to all the little pieces of evidence that he's got but when you do get to it, it's like oh shit

Dude, you have done your due diligence He's like the kind of guy that was like digging up the autopsies, going and getting the room records, doing like just like sourcing like right into the videos, like fucking a lot, hundreds and hundreds of hours. I want to say Hoover, but that's totally not his name. He's gonna be so mad at me for forgetting his name. You said it was John something?

John Cullen. John Cullen. The Sheriff, John Cullen. The Sheriff John Cullen. Yeah, the Sheriff. His. Yeah, Sheriff. Um, that's his YouTube channel. If you've searched like John colon, I think, um, he'll come up. He's a real piece of work. He's a mean guy on Twitter. Um, he can be very grumpy, but he's also really, he's, he's Joe. I like him. I get along with lots of people on Twitter,

even when they don't get along with me. Yeah. You're a good sport about stuff. Yeah. You gotta be right. You have to be. Yeah. I get people coming after me all the time. And in general, I'm like, let's go, bro. That's what I don't care. Yeah, you're a good sport about stuff. Yeah, you gotta be right. You have to be. Yeah, I get people coming after me all the time. And in general, I'm like, let's go, bro. I don't care. I mean, yeah, to me, I recently I don't want to say who, because it's coming out soon. But on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, maybe there's a podcast coming out with someone that I had been a public enemy with on Twitter. And we went and

we sat down for a podcast was super fun. Great, great conversation will be very cool. So on Twitter and we went and we sat down for a podcast was super fun. Great, great conversation. It'll be very cool. So I'm trying to guess who that is in my head. Couple candidates coming to mind. I told you about it earlier today. So Oh, that's not okay. All right. But I don't want to spoil the fun. It's not like some big secret. I just don't want to spoil. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's like, I also think you've shown a willingness to want to talk with a lot of different people, including people that disagree with you.

That's good. The question is like, you know, the reaction to your Rogan episode, I was telling you off cam earlier, I was watching the 24, 36 hours after that. And it was the great curse because I've just seen this over and over again. It's like, for the establishment crowd, you like you know the anti-christ but for the crowd that should like you you weren't far enough. You didn't go far enough. You're this controlled opposition and like you just kind of stay doing what you do because for every idiot that comments that kind of stuff there's a hundred people like that dude on the street today with the kid who stopped you and like, oh, I don't care. I fucking love your stuff. There's a lot of

people who are like, no, this is, you know what I mean? So I was very proud of how that conversation went because the Israel conversation is inherently so fucking complicated and I am inherently not a fucking expert on it. I agree, Douglas. I'm not. And, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it. We should all be talking about it. We should all be learning about it. We should all be trying to have a meaningful conversation about it that where you actually listen to the other side. Because I think a lot of people, this is coming back to this kind of like, like access bias, this kind of expert bias.

There's a lot of ways that people in our position here, especially people in my position where I'm like projecting out information, whereas you're a little bit more of like a teasing out of information. You're not so much always projecting your opinions or your stuff. Not too much. Yeah, you try not to and you're good at it.

But for me, it's so easy if you like start trying to, if you put out a piece online that sort of is opinionated or you get some, you know, if you get it wrong, you have this important choice to make of like, do you walk it back and admit that you are wrong in front of, you know, a million people in your audience? You have to. Or do you just fucking pretend like you didn you walk it back and admit that you are wrong in front of a million people in your audience? You have to. Or do you just fucking pretend like you didn't get it wrong and then go die on that hill? And that is, you see that happen to all kinds of people

all the time, and it's such a, I mean, it's a tragedy, but it's also like, yeah, you did it to yourself, bro. And that's why I think it's so important to talk to everyone, listen to everyone, because if you don't make clout and fame and money your goal, but instead make truth the mission and just try to learn the truth, then there's nothing wrong with getting things wrong. That's when you can learn something. Right. That's the best opportunity. But when you start pulling, and you've seen this, I know, in the last couple of years,

when you start pulling on threads where you get somewhere towards some truth on something, let's say what it is, then people who are way farther than you down the line, password evidence, you know, the evidence was fucking 40 blocks ago, are like, hey brother, you're on RT, and then you gotta be careful with that because those are the people that actually, instead of doing what they claim to seek,

which is like, oh, let's find truth here, or let's ask the important questions, they end up becoming the very people that, you know, the censors, if you will, get to point out and be like, see why people can't have free speech because they go this fucking far and it's beyond what it is. It's a very strange dance and like, I have all different perspectives in here. We're gonna have someone with the opposite perspective view here this weekend. I'm excited about that. Like you get to hear where people come from on stuff. But like, I always try to see where that nuance is, as best I

can, I'm just a fucking idiot in a chair in a podcast studio. But like, where we can do that, and other people can hear it, and then decide for themselves. That's the job. That's all it is. And you're hitting on a really subtle part of the job, especially of my side of the job, too, of this sort of like projecting information job that, that I'm very thoughtful about and very wary of is that it's it's a choice where you balance how far do you go into speculation and

asking questions about things we can't prove? Because if you only stick with what we can for sure prove, that's a pretty low bar, like you're not gonna learn it like we would not know shit about Epstein if no one had ever asked questions about what we did not. That's right. No, right. You need to bestein if no one had ever asked questions about what we did not know. Right. That's right. You need to be pushing the bar of information, but you need to not push it so far that you get lost in a fucking sea of unknown.

Right. And the thing is that if you do get too far out there on a limb and you give you become kind of a pariah of like the conspiracies, a pariah of all that you sort of give a lot of ammunition to the establishment. And one of the best examples of this is how Alex Jones was treated, right? Alex Jones, I mean, love him or hate him, you know, say what you want about Alex Jones, but he's been right about a lot of shit, and he's been wrong about a lot of shit. But he wasn't something that was like, evil or harmful until they pinned Sandy Hook on

him in a weird way. And even that it's like, okay, like, yeah, maybe you get Sandy Hook wrong, but I'm not seeing the same treatment for people that got COVID wrong. I'm not seeing the same treatment for people that got the Iraq war wrong. So it's like, clearly this is a targeted op against him.

But still to this day, they're trying to take his studio from him for it. $1.3 billion lawsuit or something like that. $1.1 billion lawsuit. Like a trillion? No, no, it's billion. Okay. Which is still fucking psycho, right? And they're doing that today in 2025

to try to take Infowars from them and they're gonna succeed probably. You know, what, 20 years later or something like that? 25 years later, I don't know. From Sandy Hook? Yeah, from Sandy Hook. From his comments that he made about Sandy Hook. Where, and none of that treatment is getting leveled

at everyone else, they got all this other big shit wrong. That's where you have a Good point, right? Yes but the thing that I'm trying to make a point about with Alex is that Alex got labeled as like The crazy guy right and then the moment that they succeeded at late and regardless of whether Alex was or not if they they Succeeded in getting the mainstream public to think of Alex as the crazy guy Even though he was not nearly as crazy as they made him out to be, like, right? Atrazine really does kind of change the sex. It's making all the frogs gay. One of the quotes they always say around the Infomware studio is that Alex takes the truth

to 11, right? Alex will take something true and he'll fucking crank that shit up and go all the way in. They're making the frogs gay! All of them. So you always have to walk this line of like, of you want to inform everybody, but you want to do it in a way that is approachable to everyone that they can understand that you're being genuine and And and get them in get in there get in there and ask them questions and like try to learn about the edges But also don't do it so far that you're like, that's right fucking way out there

And there's like the advantage I always think about well not advantage Like I look at it like a responsibility is all the people good and bad that have Come before me doing something similar to what I've done They've done good things I can learn from and they've made mistakes I can learn from and I don't have an excuse therefore to make some of those mistakes when I study that and like Alex is a whole separate conversation. I don't need to go into all that right now. But yeah objectively There are some things he said you can go look at the records that like big claims that he was correct about, for sure. Like 9-11 before it happened. My issue with a guy like Alex is that he had an opportunity,

he has had an opportunity to point out things that are true, that are horrible, that would help the public to understand and be a part of. And I agree, it has been an unfair attack that are true, that are horrible, that would help the public to understand and be a part of. And I agree, it has been an unfair attack that they don't hold that same energy for people coming from another end. I'm completely on the team about that one. But he also just says so much shit every single day and scream, you know, he's a meme, he's very entertaining,

screams at such a high level that it, boy, who cries wolfs it. And like, I started keeping a list with Danny Jones last year of like, all right, let's just like list off things he claims on Twitter every day and see what comes true. And like, there was one, I'll give you an example. There was one, he's like, they're going to start, this was maybe this is two years ago. I can't remember. It's all blended together. But he's like, they're going to start the new COVID. I have whistleblowers inside the airlines that say they're shutting down,

they're gonna be shutting down flights starting in a week. I wanna say this was like a September timeframe, or none of that ever happened. And so I'm like, all right, this other thing over here, you got that right with you, bro. But then like calling people, the shit he did with Sandy Hook, it's like, what are you doing?

But again, shouldn't be sued for 1.3 billion or whatever the fuck it was. And it was a dog and pony show in that way. And again, they don't hold that energy for the other side. So I see where you're coming from. I think there's just that we gotta, that line between what's entertaining and fun to talk about versus where we can actually go with things that might lead us to ask the right questions. You're not always going to get

it right. I don't expect 100 percent, but that's a very fine dance. But I would also argue that people are getting more wise to how the world really works. Coming from the world of old journalism and old information, it was way easier to be like Alex Jones said it so it must be fucking made up, right? And then everyone that talks about conspiracy theories is evil and idiotic. And these days, people are fucking wise to that, and they realize that what you talk about is not,

what I talk about, what he talks about, what anyone talks about is like, it's all just people talking, right? The internet has really democratized the talking, and everyone's kind of realized that like, Alex is Alex, and he's doing Alex. And I personally, I love the dude. He, I like he's difficult to work with. He's a whole, I've like, I've met him, I think three or four times now.

And he's like a whole dude, but I just, I just have a lot of love and respect for how long he's been in this fucking game. And I got a lot of love and respect for the fucking physical transformation. He's going through for his health right now in the public square. That's amazing. Huge shout out for that. It's cool. Super bad ass.

And I also especially really enjoy his crew. Um, some of his is super fun. Much I've gotten to spend more time with like Chase and with like Owen and Harrison. They're cool. But it's like I don't see it not in the same way as like 10 years ago anymore. Do I see it as like if Alex is fucking flying off the rails? I don't really see that as detracting from what I'm trying to do anymore. Because I see us all as having responsibility grow past that kind of immature thinking. That's a ridiculous way to think. Just because some dude in fucking Austin, Texas is saying some crazy shit on camera has nothing to do with what a journalist in like New York is researching, right? Nothing to do with it at all. Even if it's the same exact topic, what you know, Rachel Maddow is reporting about a topic has nothing to do with what I'm looking into about the topic. And if she gets it right, cool, good on her. And if I get it right, cool, great.

And it's up to everyone to realize that you have to pick the people you get information from carefully, match them to what you're looking for to a certain degree and try to make it as truthful as possible and try to learn and be better at discerning every day. All right, real quick, I gotta go to the bathroom. Same. When we come back, let's dig into the whole Israel Gaza thing.

Cool. You guys ready? Yeah. All right. We're back. So we've been, Israel's been coming up throughout the conversation a little bits today, but obviously this is something that on the internet, you're heavily involved in the conversation. There's a crazy war that's been going on now

for almost, we're coming up on two years in October. Obviously, no one likes to see people getting killed in any war. People certainly don't like to see the collateral damage of war in any type of situation. When you see men, women, and children who are civilians being killed in the middle of it, it is a highly charged topic.

It is very hard to find nuance. When I talk about this with people, I tend to not make friends because it, you know, I'm either, I'm either like, you know, a pro-Palestinian extremist or like, you know, a pro-Israel extremist, depending on who you're talking to, neither of which are true. But I really wanted to have a conversation with you and then I'm also recording with—comes at it from more the—the—the pro-Israel realm to kind of just see what—what's going on here as best as you can see it. Obviously, we're gonna call out things where it looks like there's corruption, bad governments,

and things are going wrong and, you know, try to put it out there for people to try to sift through the noise and understand this in a more long form setting where things aren't taken as out of context and whatever and we can really pick on it and I don't know, try to find the nuance here. So first question, when did you first start really looking into like the subject matter of like Israel as a state? Ryan Henson I love this story so much to tell it. I didn't know shit about it and it's important to have that context too, is I'm not an expert at all. I'm a regular dude that had just heard about it a little

bit in the news and knew nothing about it. Um, and then I started talking about 911 on my YouTube channel before October 7. And I knew about the dancing Israeli documents and had done some reading of them. And then I did a whole long report reading into them and everything like that. But I didn't put it on my YouTube channel, I don't think. And I realized that like, I should, I should understand this a little better. Like if I'm going to look into the Dancing Israelis, and actually they're not called

the Dancing Israelis in the documents, they're called the high-fivers. And there's a whole bunch of FBI reports that are real reports. It's very suspicious and very weird, as well as the Israeli art students documents. But I was like, I should be more educated about Israel and Palestine before I start reporting on this shit because there's so much context that I don't get. And so I paused that whole 9-11 stuff and went into just Israel and Palestine and just started researching. And I finished that kind of initial dig and put out a whole video on my Rumbles channel on October 6th. 2020, sorry.

Yes, yeah. You and me had a weird October 6th and 7th. Exactly, right? And it was the feeling of like, and I told this story a little bit on Rogan too, where I was like, I knew it might nuke my channel. I knew that it might, because I had kind of just through doing the research,

I had, and being a little brother and having my predispositions and my biases, I had naturally fallen on the side of like, generally being pro-Palestinian. That's different than pro-Hamas. But generally being like, what Israel is doing is pretty fucked up before October 7th happened.

And I clicked posts and like, let's see what the fuck happens. And then October 7th, because at the time, it was pretty taboo to talk about. And channels would get demonetized for it. It wasn't really clear how or why, until I researched it, how or why it was kind of a quiet, subtle conversation. On a broad level, though, when you say they seem fucked up, what kinds of things?

So what I found. And there's sort of multiple layers to this, because there's the kinetic warfare that happens between Israel and Palestinian elements. And then there's the propaganda and information war that happens between Israel and the rest of the world's minds, so to speak, about what's happening there. And certainly, yeah, like Iran and Hamas and like the, the terrorist elements, although that's a, that word itself is propaganda, I would argue. Not for all of them, though.

No, not for all, not by any means. What I mean by that is that you could just as easily classify a lot of the Israeli actions as terror, as you could a lot of the- I understand what you mean. You know what I'm saying? And like a lot of the people that founded Israel were classified as terrorists by Israel once it was founded because they the whole world was so fucking pissed about things like

the bombing of the King David Hotel that originally sort of like what the Irgun did. Yeah. So what I wound up finding was and this is obvious like this is going to this is broad strokes and there's lots of nuance and lots of it. I don't understand yet that I'm always trying to learn more. But the Zionist movement began in the sort of international Jewish discussion that before Israel was a thing, right? At the time, the land of Palestine was like a British protectorate, more or less, right?

And at the time, they were thrown out like, A, Zionism was not popular among all Jews by any means. There was lots of very cogent arguments against it. And some that I would argue, I wish had won out. And I think it would have been better for the Jewish people in the long run being I'm not a Jew, obviously. So I don't have skin in the game. I didn't know that. Not my place to speak about it in that regard. But I think that there's serious long-term downsides to having a Jewish state, actually, that we'll talk about. The Jewish state where it is or in general?

Both. I think there's a second layer to where it is, though there's obviously a benefit to where it is too in terms of that is their homeland, that is the homeland of their religion and of their people. But there's also the element of, we were talking earlier off camera about how like, actually some people were throwing out regions of Africa.

Like maybe we should- They wanted to do a piece of Uganda, yes. Maybe we should put a Jewish state in Uganda, right? That would admit, now obviously there's always gonna be issues anytime a group of people, no matter who they are, is trying to like, establish a state where there isn't one. Colonize.

But still, still, you can imagine 95% of the quote unquote problems we have wouldn't exist if it wasn't this particular piece of land. You know what I mean? And at the time, there's lots of reporting from all different outlets that use the word colonize very specifically and directly to say like the Jews colonize, are going to colonize Palestine, not in a derogatory evil way, just saying like, that's what's happening. Like the Jewish people are deciding to move to Palestine and build a settlement, build a home there. And there's tons of nuance in terms of how that happened. And there was lots of violence that started to spark a little bit. But at the time, like it wasn't like the, my understanding is that the, in general,

the Arabs weren't like, get the fuck out of here. We hate you. Like Jewish people already lived there. Christian people already lived there there in the 20s and 30s Yeah, exactly and even the 10s and the O's right like in 1900 era Yeah, because they were just moving in and they were just doing their own thing and their little conclaves just doing their thing Right. It's just more of them came after the Balfour Declaration Exactly. And so it's important to remember that the idea of Israel is not a retaliation to the Holocaust the idea of Israel is before the Holocaust and it completely predates the Holocaust and it's tragic and horrific.

But the propagandizing of the Holocaust to support the Jewish state of Israel is complex. And the thing is, in the context of what we're talking about now, they need to be treated separately. I would think so. You should be able to say on one hand, the Holocaust is horrible. I believe it was 11 million people total died, six million of them are Jews.

So a lot of different people are affected by it. That was a horrible event, and there's all kinds of history with it, with World War II. What we're dealing with now with a state that happens to have people who are of that same religion running it, needs to be treated as a separate issue, meaning they need to be judged on the own morals or

immorals that they're doing. Yeah, because when Israel was founded, there was a couple of key players in the founding of Israel. Obviously, lots of nuance, but the high level is that you need a lot of fucking money to found a country to fund the fighting involved in this thing. And a lot of that came from the Rothschild family and other wealthy Jewish families around the world.

A lot of that money came from fundraising in the United States done largely by mob-affiliated people through casino networks and things like that. And a lot of the weapons were old World War II weapons that were smuggled by the Jewish mob in America over to Israel. So you have bankers, some of the worst, and like, let's be clear from the start here. Every Jew is an individual person. They should be judged on their individual actions.

And when you criticize one Jewish person, you're not criticizing all Jewish people by any means. And when I criticize Israel, I am not criticizing all Jewish people by any means. And lots of Jewish people do not agree with what Israel is doing right now. And some of them agree with Israel conceptually, but not with what it's doing right now. And some of them don't agree with Israel at all. And it's like everyone is an individual, right? And so when you get some of the worst individuals in the world being the funding of this operation,

and then you get some of the worst people in the world being the weapon smuggling of this operation, the mobsters who were also involved in sexual blackmail at the time in the United States with the FBI situation. And then you get a whole bunch of militant groups that were essentially terrorist groups at the time that were both fighting against Palestinian militias, as well as bombing British civilians and bombing other civilians in the area

to get them all to fucking move out. And the bombing of the King David Hotel is one very famous one, one of the biggest, most like highest casualty numbers ones. And just to be clear, and correct me if I'm wrong here, part of the reason before you get to the bombing of any hotels and stuff like that, part of the reason that that anger was emanating

was because Britain was putting a cap on Jewish immigrants coming into the country. Britain was trying to essentially like Jewish immigrants coming into the country. Britain was trying to essentially not answer the question, so to speak. Britain had promised Palestine to two different groups directly, and they had teased France a little bit too. The Arabs had been promised Palestine during the war in order to revolt against the Ottomans, and that was critical to the war.

Then the Jews had also been promised Palestine, and that was super critical to the war in order to revolt against the Ottomans, and that was critical to the war. And then the Jews had also been promised Palestine, and that was super critical to the war. And so Britain had fucked everything up during that time, as they tend to do, fucking empires. And so they had already totally fumbled the ball in a big way. And so when World War II ends, and then Britain is like, I don't wanna fucking answer this question.

And they, I mean, A, they kind of halted the immigration into Palestine earlier than that because it had started to get fucking contentious. But also like, once they handed off the decision to the UN to be like, all right, you fucking deal with this problem. I don't wanna deal with it. That's kind of cowardly and rude too. But at the same time, I'm not there.

And so then when the partition happens, and I mean, on its surface, my bias to the concept is that when you have a land that has people there, living there, and then a bunch of outsiders move into that land, regardless of your traditional, religious, genetic, family ties to it, regardless of any of that, if you're moving on to someone else's house and their family has been there for

the last two or three or four generations, you got to have a little like respect for that. Like, come on. And so when the partition happens and the Jews are given more percentage of that land than the Arabs, to me, I totally understand why the Arabs are like, fuck no, that's not fair, right? And there will always be arguments about who started the wars.

Every single one of the wars, it's always, no, they started it, no, they started it, no, they started it, but regardless, it's like, it's probably a mixed bag. Yeah, it probably is, right? But regardless of who started it, they go to war over this partition that the Arabs don't want, and the Jews are like,

yeah, we'll take it, fuck it, let's go. And in that war, then the Jews come out with way more of the land than the original partition. Keep it for a while. And it starts this long history of like, Oh, we'll give it back. Oh, we'll take it back in this war that they started. No, they started. No, they. And so for through like, until the 80s or so, there's this sort of like pre pre TV, pre televised era of this war that is largely just happening over there and being

reported on. And a lot of shit happens during that time. And I guess we don't want to get off of the Irgun, the Lehi, and the Haganah too quickly because these three different groups, Irgun, Lehi, and Haganah, they're sort of three factions of these militant groups. And Irgun and Lehi are notoriously more militant, more extremist, more down with bombing fucking all kinds of people. And they're more right wing, whereas Haganah was aligned with Ben-Gurion in the left wing.

Exactly. And so they are distinct factions. And obviously it's messy. And there's multiple angles to all this. But the Irgun, as one example that's important to note, actually were advocating for an alliance with the Nazis during World War II, not because they, as far as I'm aware, loved the Nazis, but because they thought it would be beneficial to the Zionist cause of getting more Jews into fucking Palestine.

What evidence do we have for that? Documentation, I'm thinking of a very... I think the document I'm thinking of is actually cited in the Wikipedia article about Irrigant specifically. And I like sources like that, because they're so mainstream and controlled that like, if you can make it onto Wikipedia with that with a primary source like that, it's like, is relatively there. But there's, there are original documents from the time like arguments being made by them of like letters essentially like we should do this thing and um meaning they wanted to I would look at it if that is the case they basically wanted to use the Nazi machine

to get their ends and then give a fuck like what was on the other end they may not like the people but they're like useful. Yeah. And like, let's be clear, the Jewish people have been through a lot around the world and there's so much trauma around that in the Jewish people and the way that they've been treated by countries and the ways they've been massacred and slaughtered, right? And so I can empathize for sure with the Jewish desire to have a safe place. Yes. 100%. And from their perspective, especially coming out of the Holocaust, they are fighting for their lives and for their survival.

And they're coming out of an experience that makes it very real. Oh, can you imagine just walking out of the woods of Europe, you've been through hell, somehow you survived it, 90% of your family died, and you get on a boat and you're like, at the end of this boat, I may be on a piece of land that I can actually have freedom on with other people like me.

Like, I get it. I totally get it. Exactly. And so my point around that that sketches me out from the start of the story, though, is that the founding leadership is terrorist groups that are willing to bomb civilians to get what they want. And I'm obviously speaking broadly.

International bankers that are not great, and mobsters in America that are not great. So there are three pieces of it. Those are three key leadership pieces, right? Would you separate, I'm just like, I'm trying to figure out like, what all the pieces are here though. Would you separate those in some way

from like the Haganon, Ben-Gurion, who were trying to do it more through the UN and the diplomatic channels? Yeah, the Haganon and Ben-Gurion who were trying to do it more through the UN and diplomatic channels? Yeah, the Haganah and Ben-Gurion stand out distinctly. And I'm not, I'm like, there's so much nuance. I would be an idiot to try to claim that I'm like some expert on all of that, all of the happenings of those times.

And, but certainly it's obvious right from the very first bit of research you do on it that the Haganah is distinct and they did not align with the tactics of a lot of these other factions. And then when Israel is founded, the leadership of Israel from their prime ministers down to like the rest of their leadership structure is sort of selected from these various groups, right? And obviously still aligned with these various peoples and things that have formed it. And that's just me speaking logically, not based on any specific factual information.

But if a bunch of mobsters were the best friends that helped get the weapons here, it's not like they're just severing those relationships immediately after it happens. If the Rothschilds funded it, clearly they are still involved in the project the next year after it's founded. So those interests that founded it

are suddenly the top level echelon of people in Israel. And to me, that is the perfect recipe for a deep state. Like that is the ultimate concoction of a deep state right from the start. And Israel is fighting for its survival against these other countries around them from the start in a way that encourages intelligence agency style operations, covert operations, open warfare too. But they're basically like anything goes to save this nation, right? To protect ourselves.

And so that is the most fertile soil ever for a corrupt deep state to grow in. And all indication ever since in my book shows that a very, very powerful deep state grew in Israel from the start. And lots of Israelis, I think, had nothing to do with it. And I think lots of Israelis were probably totally regular, genuine people. And even Israelis that fought in those wars, I think they... I'm just assuming. But I would assume there's plenty of people that were wonderful people after that war

ended, whatever. Yeah. Like drawn a little parallel here, obviously, in every war, there's always some bad apples in the barrel there. War brings it out. That do some terrible things. But like for example, you look at our corruption here in the United States with fucking Iraq

and all the shit we did there. I always have been respectful on our end, as an American too, to like make the distinction between the idiots in DC and the offices who are calling those shots and the tip of the spear that they go there and forced to do their job. And I think you're kind of drawing that distinction here in some ways with some of the things they do as well.

Exactly, and when you're looking at the government of Israel, criticizing the government of Israel today, which is what I myself do a lot of, and I'm intentionally always try to draw the distinction that I'm criticizing the government of Israel today, which is what I myself do a lot of. Correct. And I'm intentionally always try to draw the distinction that I'm criticizing the government of Israel, not all the people of Israel, and certainly not all the Jewish people around the world. Though I would argue that today a lot of Israelis are raised and propagandized in a way that there's a lot of really horrific videos that come out of Israel, because there's a lot of people that align with the sort of right-wing,

Likudist kind of mindset about Palestinians that is horrendous Israel because there's a lot of people that align with the sort of like right-wing Likudist kind of mindset about Palestinians that is horrendous and just disgusting. But a lot of Israelis today protest what's going on, right? But that's we're getting ahead of ourselves on that because during the 60s, 70s, Israel steals nuclear technology from America using these sort of like mob and intelligence agency connections within the United States. It's called the Demona affair. There's a couple of names for different parts of it.

The Apollo affair sort of refers to the theft of the nuclear material from New Mac in America. The nuclear. It's nuclear something something. Yeah, yeah, right. Don't worry about it. And that's quite well documented Yes, and can I prove that exactly Kennedy was very on their ass about it before he got killed

And they steal a bunch of nuclear material. They steal a bunch of technology to do a crazy deal with France They build this reactor in secret that they're not supposed to have and to this day is not a silver admitted It's never been admitted. They have not signed the treaties that everyone else has signed super fucked and Kennedy was on them about it in a big way and actually It's never been admitted. It's never been admitted. They have not signed the treaties that everyone else has signed. Super fucked. And Kennedy was on them about it in a big way. And actually, Kennedy was so pissed at them about it that he demanded to inspect the reactor, right? And they set up a fake control room for him to inspect.

And they sent the inspectors in, they took them to this fake control room and they're like, this is fucking fake. And Kennedy, I mean, I don't know how to source whether this quote is real or not. They lie to me and I hate it. These motherfuckers lie to me constantly, right? Shortly before he died. And I'm not implying that Israel alone killed JFK. I'm implying that there was strong motivations for factions in Israel to support or be a

part of or do whatever they need to do in that coalition. That's one I've never seen good evidence for because the evidence on everything else that had way more power, way more proximity and way less, a lot to lose, but way less to lose is much more on our own government and the associated acts. Now could Israel have been probably happy the next day after that happened? Could they have sent someone to put in a good word and say, hey, if you all are thinking about this, go for it. Yeah, but when I see a lot of the cases on the JFK thing, I think they're total house

of cards. I think that the JFK one is one that I think actually Israel has less to do with than all the other coalition elements. I think that if there is any Israel involvement directly in the JFK thing, I think it's actually much more likely and more accurate to say mob, Jewish mob involvement, although mafia really fits the bill a lot better when you actually look at the names of people that were on the ground there. That motherfucker was hated by a lot of people.

Yeah. I'd be curious if you've ever heard the story, we don't need to get all into Kennedy right now, but I heard that John F. Kennedy basically had a meeting where he sat down with his dad and his mafia buddy. I forget exactly who it was. Chicago? Maybe. And they had a meeting where he was basically like, will you play ball? And John was like, yeah, I'll play ball. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I believe it was G. I don't know. I don't know the specifics of whether or not John was in the room or anything,

but I do know, and it's been widely reported that effectively, that was a razor-thin election in 1960. He won because there were a lot of people who voted in Dallas, Texas and Chicago, Illinois, and some people who weren't alive. And yes, there was the deal that, like... So the mafia thought it was gonna be their boy, right? And then my understanding is that him and his brother, Bobby,

went back on that word if it was given, and the mafia did not feel good about how they were playing out in that car. So there's a lot of evidence that the mafia was heavily involved, and the CIA was heavily involved in all sorts of other elements, Lyndon Mayne, Johnson, and so on. And the Pentagon, like that, we always gloss over that. Exactly.

Fucking Curtis LeMay and all that. Yeah, so that's one where it's like, it's important to follow the actual evidence, the actual facts. And regardless of Israel's involvement, they fucking benefited greatly. Because you can follow the AIPAC trail right to John F. Kennedy's death

of him demanding that they register AIPAC as a that they register a lot of things went right after that. And then they're like, Oh, sorry. We're in like, literally, you can see the exact letter for letter for letter of like, they had just sent them the documentation to register right before he was killed. And then right after he was killed, Israel sends back a letter basically saying, we're not going to register. Yeah, also, then they restructured it. It wasn't actually a pack.

It was the ACC, I think is what it was termed before that the American Zionist Council. And then it got returned into a pack and they restructured so that wasn't they got all the all the Israelis out of it. It was American. Also, LBJ found them very useful to LBJ was very useful to them as well. Oh, yeah, two way street, two way street. And and then the nuclear thing is another big piece of that. And so that's the sort of like middle ground. But for me, one of the big things that kind of colors my understanding of the whole thing is very well summarized by this documentary I cite a lot called The Occupation of the

American Mind, which is on Rumble. And it's a documentary that's very well put together and a lot of the people speaking in it are Jewish people. Intentionally, they also have Palestinian people, they also have British people, they kind of have the whole thing. And the whole thesis is not about like exactly just the history and the wars and all that. It covers that. But it's really talking about how in the 80s, when there was this massacre in the place called Sabra and Shatila, it was one of the first massacres that was televised to Americans, and Americans saw it, and suddenly they were like,

what the fuck, this is not okay. Because Israel had allowed in a sort of like extremist group into a refugee camp to basically massacre all these civilians, and footage of all these dead civilians came back to America, and they'd never seen anything quite like it. Maybe a little in Vietnam.

And suddenly there was this huge shift against Israel and Israel kind of realizes like, oh fuck, we've got to win the ideological war, not just the kinetic war, right? And so in the 80s, there's this big shift towards Hasbara and towards, and they hired a bunch of like the world's top propagandists to do it. And they basically like wrote out a set of documents

about this is how you represent what we're doing, and this is how you represent it to the world. And that thesis, that mindset has pervaded everything Israel has done ever since, and it's only gotten more and more important ever since. And when you look at October 7th till today, you see it everywhere. They've really fucked it up though this time.

They've really fucked it up, and they were not ready for that. But like one of my favorite anecdotes that they talk about in this show and they show footage of it is that back in the 90s, we had the apprentice right here where Donald's, cause we're the capitalists.

Early 2000s. Yeah, early, right? Where we are all about capitalism. And so it's like people apprenticing under Donald Trump to get the job as the executive, all that's very capitalist, right? They have a parallel TV show called The Apprentice. I don't, or not the, uh, the ambassador. And I don't think it still runs now, but it was like, you know, timeline

synced. And that was all about who could run the best Hasbro, who could do the best explanation of Israel's, you know's being an ambassador to the world of Israel? And there's this famous quote that I don't think is from the show, it's from one of the Israeli PR guy or something, that's like, how does it go? It's easy to sell milk because when you sell milk, half the people you sell it to aren't going to say that you support killing children and that you, you know what I'm saying? Is selling milk, selling a product,

or is lemonade is the example he uses. It's like selling lemonade is not gonna have people calling you all these names and saying you're a terrorist and saying you're an occupier and a colonizer. And so they, he's like, so our job is way harder. And they have this whole show, it's like this whole cultural thing of like, how do you represent Israel outwards?

And it's about how you always talk about the rockets raining down, you always humanize, like how would you feel? What would you do? Right? Israel has a right to defend itself. Exactly. It's all these phrases that are intentionally canned phrases that we hear all the time to reframe the conversation and to always, you know, flood the zone and with, with just like propaganda. And, and so once you get a firm grasp on the Israeli perspective on propaganda, it recolors how you intake information today. And anyone can use those techniques.

Certainly Al Jazeera can use those techniques and Hamas can use those techniques. Absolutely. They do sometimes for sure. That being said, when you get to modern day Israel, which was kind of my first initial feeling, and it's pretty obvious right away, that you're talking about one of,

A, it's a state that was funded by the most powerful banking family in the world as ever known back in the day. And there's a lot of debate about whether the Rothschilds still have that kind of power or not, and it doesn't really matter in that sense. Israel was backed by these fucking huge bankers that like had insane power and had, you know, it's quite well documented that Jewish people,

though they are a minority and though they are often, you know, discriminated against, they are the wealthiest and most successful racial group. They stick together. And they stick together. Very well. They stick together. And to their credit, they stick together, right? Yes. Yeah. But that means that when October 7th happens, all of them are deeply incentivized for understandable reasons to group up and protect Israel. Sure. And they're also

backed financially by the United States military to this day to the tune of billions and billions of billions of dollars in weapon systems and the Iron Dome and all this shit. They've got helicopters and planes and nukes, that they're not supposed to have. And they're literally fighting against a, like, and the, and we'll get to the counter argument here in a second on this, but they're fighting against an impoverished people that like have some AK-47s, like literally kids are throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers because they're just like, fuck you. Like the Palestinian people are so beat down and so captive, captivized, that they have nothing to fight with. They don't have a government they don't have a fucking especially in Gaza. They don't have a government. They

don't have an intelligence agency. They don't have billions of dollars. They don't have fucking tanks. They don't have weapons. They don't have shit. And so it's like the rockets raining down is like, it's pretty well known that the rockets coming from Hamas across the border into Israel, the strategy is not that we're going to hit Israel with them and we're going to kill people exactly. The strategy is that I have a rocket that cost me $5,000, $10,000, and it cost the Iron

Dome like what, I don't know, a million dollars, $500,000 to shoot an Iron Dome rocket. So it's just a war of money, right? War of attrition in that sense. And so there's all this sort of like confounding of the narrative that happens around what is happening. Right down to the level of it is very well reported from sources in Israel that Bibi Netanyahu himself funded Hamas. Yeah, intentionally propped up and funded Hamas. Yeah, it's a quote from a Knesset meeting in 2019, and I believe the exact quote was, if you want to ensure you don't have, I'm paraphrasing, if you want to ensure

you don't have a two-state solution, you must be okay with funding Hamas. Yeah, and the last guy that was in power in Israel that promoted a two-state solution actually got the Oslo Accord signed, got murdered. He did. Shortly after. Yeah. And there's a lot of controversy about, you know, whether that was a conspiracy or not. Yeah. Whether Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Mossad asset or just some random right-wing dude that hated him. And I'm not claiming there's any clear answer to that. But there's all this convolution around what's

going on right now. But when I just look at it with common sense, before I know anything, it's very obvious that there's an underdog and a fucking powerful nation here. And that powerful nation is backed by the Western Empire. Now, let's look at this in a couple different lenses here. And let's keep a pin on it. So don't let me get off a couple things.

I want to make sure we hit Netanyahu on one hand as far as like his whole life and then the concept of of of the of Hamas as it pertains to the actual Palestinian people caught in the middle of this. So we'll put a pin in that. On Netanyahu, I made a comment in episode 134 with Joby Warwick the first time I recorded with him. We were recording in January 2023. And maybe it was like two hours and 25 minutes in that podcast. Something was coming up about Israel. And I made a comment that after I said it,

I thought in my head, I'm like, did I just say that out of my ass? Can I actually defend that? Or did that just sound like the thing to say? And the comment was something along the lines of, there's a strong linkage in comparison between like a almost dictatorial holding on to power in a way between Netanyahu and Putin. Like what's the difference there?

So I kind of like after that, I didn't say anything like in the podcast, but afterwards I was like, you know what? I think I talked out of my ass there. I think I need to actually go look at this a lot more. So ironically, I spent 2023, my main topic was Israel and the Middle East. I was ass deep in this shit.

I've read every word that Netanyahu wrote. And you know, he's interesting because, I will give him this, he's a William Jefferson, Clinton-level politician. He's a very smart guy. But he's so full of himself that he reveals a lot of things about himself that he thinks sounds great, and it does not.

And about his plan, and about where things are going, and about what countries we're gonna take over next. And so when you look at this, you know, I was telling you about this in the car, and this is something you should really look into. The key moment in Netanyahu's life, just based on the words he said, as I can take it, is when his brother Yoni was killed in 1976.

His brother Yoni was like a badass special forces guy, commander, they go to do a raid in Entebbe, was killed in 1976. His brother Yoni was like a badass special forces guy, commander. They go to do a raid in Entebbe, in I believe Uganda. Is that right? Yeah. And it's on like an airfield and long story short, he's the only one that gets killed. And it like broke his heart the whole bit. And after that, Netanyahu starts a world organization, like a conference kind of thing. I forget what it was called, but it was basically talking about radical Islamic terrorism. And he was the one who kind of started that line.

Now, he rises to power in 1996, becomes prime minister from 96 to 99 for the first time in everything. And he later, after Ahud Barak beats him, he comes back in the next government under I want to say Sharon where he's the finance minister and he was actually a fucking incredible finance minister like he really rebuilt their economy at the time in a lot of ways the reason he left the finance ministry though was over a political it was over a political principle and it was they were planning on giving Gaza to the Palestinians and he did this lasted like a year he said the minute you do that I have to resign

and to his credit I guess like he stuck to his guns he resigned I bring this up because it was a personal point to him now that's 2005-2006 they give that up. The terrorists who went across the border in October 2023, when Gaza was given over, those kids, at the time, they were 0 to 5 years old, because these were all like 17 to 23 year olds, something like that. They grew up in a 20-mile space where they really couldn't go anywhere, were locked in, and actually, let me steelman this and see some of this from Israel's perspective for a second If you're Israel, you're in a lose-lose situation here. So you give them land because you're like, alright We're gonna give them land so we can say we did something. We're gonna pull all our people out

But now we have a group of people Some of whom won't care others who are gonna be terrorists hiding among them who now live on our border And there's four borders of Gaza. Okay, you have the north which touches Israel the east which touches Israel The south which touches the Sinai which Egypt technically owns But it's no man's land and terrorists run it and they don't fucking like the Palestinians So there's nowhere to go there and then the West which touches the sea But Israel has to stop them three miles out because now it's international waters

that they could get around and do attacks in Israel, the bad people, which means they can't get to the coral reef, which I believe is eight to nine miles out, therefore they can't have a fishing industry. So they lock in a 20 mile zone. And I always say to people, I'm like, you know, we got enough problems with like Mexico and the cartels and shit on our board.

Put that aside for a second. Imagine it's 2006 and Iraq is on our border. We'd have the biggest wall of all time. But important context there, please, it'd be our fucking fault. Because like it's it's Israel's fucking fault that they did like and I'm not saying that that's like the solution or it's like the problem goes away. I'm just saying that when you choose to move into a land surrounded by Arabs as Jews, and the modern,

Jews there today did not choose this, but their forefathers chose to move in and take that land with the tactics they did. And there's fucking blowback to that. Like when you treat these people this way, when you fight them in this way, when you fight them in this way, and you wind up in this situation, that is your fucking fault.

And so when they wind up with the Gaza Strip with this population of captive children growing up to become Hamas terrorists, they are in a lose-lose situation of their own making because the truth of the matter is that my interpretation is that Netanyahu allowed, likely, allegedly allowed the October 7th attack to happen because that would give precedent to going into Gaza and wiping everything out.

What is, it's not implausible. Let me start with that. If you could remove all emotion from this, all human capital, everything, take away everything for a second, we're not looking at this as a human human being. We're just looking at this as like an AI. It's a smart move. It would be the smart move. Oh, 100%. Right?

What evidence do we have of that happening? I am not well versed enough, because here's the thing. I'm going to make a rational argument, but not a sources argument, because the sources are very convoluted and hard to trust. And I would want someone with like military experience, like someone like a Scott Ritter to talk about, like, this source is from this place. And this is like, because then you can follow that chain all the way up to like, literally, who's writing it, where is it coming out of the military? And why do we trust that source? And I have seen sources that claim it.

The one who did old kids. I think there is a scandal like that in this past. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe although at the same time we can find someone different. I would say at the same time that I also have a hard time trusting when someone who speaks out against the regime from within the inside with inside information has a kid scandal like that. I look very closely and I have not looked at Scott Reuters at all. He's had, I always, I always look very closely and I have not looked at Scott Ridders at all.

He's had multiple. I always look closely to make sure that it's a real scandal. That's fair. He has had multiple though. Yeah. But what I mean to say about this argument is that I have seen sources that claim that, but I always have a hard time kind of trusting them and you have to do a lot of digging to get to the heart of it. But like one thing that we know for sure is that that is one of the most militarized borders in the fucking world.

And that Israel is a surveillance machine. Israel is the home of so much of the global information surveillance industry. And the vast majority of Israelis have served in the IDF. And actually, let's hold on. There was clearly a stand-down order. And we know there was a stand-down order. And that is well reported. There was a stand-down order order. And we know there was a stand-down order. And that is well reported.

There was a stand-down order. Because Israel has admitted that there was a stand-down order. And it was reported in Israel journalism, it was reported in American journalism, it was reported all around the world. And it took a while for it to come out. It took a couple months, as far as I remember, for it to come out.

But there was a stand-down order issued during the October 7th attack that caused a delay. Yeah, why did they say they did that? I don't remember if there was a good reason given, honestly. I don't recall. I would have to look back at the reporting from 2023. But also, the other thing that was admitted later on is that the Hannibal Directive was enacted,

which is the, I guess, Israeli military policy that if hostages are being taken, you don't let hostages be taken at all costs, including killing Israeli civilians. And that was admitted by Israel and reported in Israel publications that it was admitted. And it was known beforehand, because when you look at the photos of the cars that are all melted out from Nova Music Festival, that's not something that RPGs do. That's not something that AK-47s do.

Hamas did not have weapons that can fucking melt cars, right? That is clearly Apache helicopter fire. And that was reported at the time by people just looking at it that had expertise, being like, this is fucking not a thing. Again, in the middle of it, now how it's propagandized later is a separate issue that we can talk about. But in the middle of like a massive event like that, if there are backups called in to try to stop something, perhaps they're trying to shoot at people that are perpetrating the attacks.

Yeah, it could be accidental. The implication from the Hannibal Directive is that it was sanctioned intentionally. And I think it's a horrendous reasoning, but I can see the reasoning of why you do that. Because then you wind up like the moment that Hamas has hostages, look where you wind up, right? But there's all these little elements where like you fucking you tell me that hang gliders flew into Israel, like this fucking bastion of intelligence and security. And then it takes them so long. Like, so I did the math, because I'm an ultra marathon runner. I did the math on that fucking, that retaliation

on how long it took them to get to the border to fight back against Hamas. And it took them about the same amount of time as it would have taken me to run from Tel Aviv to the border on Floyd. If I'd been really hoofing it, took them what, like eight to 10, 12 hours, something like that, seven to 12 hours?

I don't remember. Yeah, it was a long time. And I don't remember the specifics either, but I remember that a week hours, something like that, seven to 12 hours. I don't remember. It was a long time. And I don't remember the specifics either, but I remember like that, a week after something like that, doing the math of like, wait a minute, like Israel is a fucking narrow little country. You're telling me that they took them that long to realize, like either they're incompetent as fuck, like fire everyone in your military, or there was something going on there.

And when you look at the rhetoric, when you look at Bibi's statements, when you look at the Likud party's general sentiment towards Gaza, the Palestinians, and the Greater Israel Project, which you can kind of piece together from various people's statements over the years. Is that like Smotrich's thing about like the biblical?

I think that different people have different, like I think different Israelis probably have different levels of biblicalness versus different levels of like just military objectiveness. That motherfucker's crazy. But there's like, there are Israelis that were starting to just wear patches on their fucking shoulders

that showed the greater Israel like borders, which is to be clear, a much more expanded version of Israel that includes parts of all these other countries around them. And obviously Gaza is one of the first steps in that. And so when you look at their long-term plans for like, we need to fucking take this land, and they've tried before,

but like the international community is repeatedly like, you can't fucking do that. That is a war crime. Like another one, right? Which also, you know, collective punishment is a war crime, right? Killing civilians, killing doctors, killing journalists, all these are war crimes, sanctionable. Yeah, and there's a couple things here. Number one, we know thousands of people are dying.

Number two, just to keep the emphasis on what's important, which is let's stop people dying, we also got to be careful with the numbers on every report because they are coming from the Gaza Health Ministry and we don't want to cut out the legs of the argument from under it. Number three, there is censorship going on, as best as I can tell, I guess, Israel doing that, from people who are trying to, I don't know, blow the whistle on some of the things they're seeing. There's one, and I forget his name, maybe we can pull it up, Alessi, there's one Jewish doctor who's been working at the hospitals in Palestine who's talking about how there's clearly to

him orders being given to shoot indiscriminately at people that they're, that they could be telling the IDF, oh, that's a terrorist and it's fucking kids and getting shot through the heart. Clear sniper bullet fire. Correct. And to be clear, there is well-documented cases of that going whack way before October 7. Yes.

The context to remember here is that on the day of October 7, Israel had in its jails and prisons more Palestinian hostages that had no charge of a crime, that were just in an undetermined amount of detention, than Hamas took in all of October 7th. So when you look at the hostage balance, Israel had this huge amount of hostages from Gaza and from the West Bank, mostly from Gaza, already just chilling.

That's this constant flow of they'll break into your house at night and take your kids, they'll break into your house and take you, they'll arrest you for random fucking crimes, you have no two- tier justice system for days. And so the number of hostages that Israel already had was way exceeding what then Hamas came over and took. And that was atrocious, don't fucking do that. And then so now Hamas has some hostages. They give some back.

Israel still has all these fucking hostages all along. And call them what you wanna call them, call them terrorists and you not terrorists. But like the imbalance of, like the way that Israel always frames things is so clearly propagandized in every form, right from the start every time when you actually know even like a basic amount of information about it. And even if like, for example, the death numbers are fudged, the death numbers are still out of control.

Even if the bombs tonnage is fudged, like most reporting I see is saying that Israel has dropped more tonnage of bombs on Gaza since this war broke out on October 7th, then we're dropped in all of World War II combined. Probably excluding the atom bomb, but I'm not sure if it's actually excluding the atom bomb. Yeah, where are we getting that? I don't know how you measure that. I mean, obviously you can see imagery, like they've leveled Gaza.

So I don't want to get into that. But that's a good example again where it's like, I don't even trust that kind of a number because it doesn't really matter. We can just look and see from video footage, from like the basic logic that this is an insane retaliation for what happened. And we know that that population is like half women and children at least, right?

All right, so let's separate something for a second. Let's agree that what Israel is doing at this point to continue perpetrating what they're doing on Gaza is wrong and some of it is tantamount to genocide. Fine. In the general concept of things, I don't really use these terms, so I never remember which one is the right definition, but if you could like, steal man, the Israeli perspective, not on killing kids and killing innocent civilian women and men and stuff like that, but on the idea of they are one, whatever it is, like 10 million population pocket in the middle of billions of Arabs and Islamic states

around them who have one spot spot and therefore it's like, can you see where they're coming from to be like, we're trying to exist. We only have one little spot. Yes, it's a very important piece of land, but all these other places have all these spots and they're trying to completely get rid of us. We're the good guy here.

Yeah, and I can see how you would also clearly, like, you're right, that Hamas is a horrible organization. Hamas is a terrorist organization that does terrorist acts and they are equally evil to the, well, not equally, but they are also evil to the Palestinian people, the Palestinian civilians. Yeah, they're also not Palestinian. Yeah, they're a horrible people.

And most of them, yeah, most of them are being shipped. There's this whole other terror network that is being funded by Iran and all these other, it is not as simple as just saying like, the Palestinians are all innocent and the Israelis are hurting them, obviously. And yes, the argument of like, what would you do? Like Israel has to defend itself to a certain degree, I understand, but also like, if a bully bullies one kid in my classroom,

then it's like, maybe the teacher should step in and like sort this out and help everyone get along. But if a bully walks into a crowd of like 100 best friends and starts bullying one of them in like incessantly, and then all the best friends start being like, we'll fuck you up. Is it like, I'm sorry, dude. Like what are you doing?

Where's the line? Why are you doing that? You should probably learn to make friends. And as a teacher in my experience, actually, all bullies are just kids that were hurt. And I'm not intentionally trying to say that like, I'm not trying to overdraw this metaphor, but it's in a teaching world.

A lot of bullies are actually kids that were hurt, don't have a family that loves them, things, problems at home. And once you teach them to be diplomatic with the kids that they're trying to get along with by bullying, they actually are often the biggest sweethearts. And they're often like totally wonderful people once they learn the social skills to do it. And in a certain parallel, I would wish that Israel would try, and I know Israel will say, and they do, that we've tried giving them the land back, we've tried diplomas, we've tried giving them things,

and what do we get in return? Rockets raining down on us. And it's like, yes, to a certain degree, that is true, like for sure. And to a certain degree, that is the consequences of your own fucking actions. That is the consequences of you terrorizing these people, and you're inevitably gonna have terrorists

growing up in that population that will continue to terrorize you that is not an excuse to take the low road and to bomb all the next generation of them and to make a whole fucking thousand million more terrorists right because that is all you're ever gonna do you're either going to eradicate every single one of them or every single last one of them you didn't eradicate will hate you till they die and they will do everything they can to kill you because you've killed their family their parents their sisters their loved. So what do they have to lose? Right? If I

lived, like, let's be clear, I don't. So thank fucking God, I'm not. But if I lived in Gaza, I would probably be a fucking terrorist. Like I am such a rebel. I am so inherently a rebellious person. And I think that most people, if they lived in Gaza and their family and their people had been treated that way, most people with a spine would fight back, right? And if you didn't fight back, you're kind of a fucking coward. Yeah, I talk about this a lot with any form of terrorism,

regardless of where it is. It's like, I don't empathize with the act. You go blow up a building of a hundred people, like fuck that and fuck you. What I do always try to understand for a future perspective in trying to make the world a better place is trying to empathize

with what got the person to that point. What was in their environment that got them to that point and how can we improve that in the next generation so there's one less of them. Yeah, exactly. And I would wish upon those Palestinian people that have been wronged like that, that I would hope that they can mature enough

to take that high road, because when I was younger, I would have joined up. I would have been likeed like that, that I would hope that they can mature enough to take that high road. Because when I was younger, I would have joined up. I would have been like, fuck this shit, I'm fighting. But as you get older, you realize, like me now, I would be like, no, there needs to be a high road here, because violence is an endless cycle of violence. And I think Israel is the one in the position

to try to take that high road. And the problem about a high road is you have to stay on the high road. And just because you take the high road and then the bully punches you again, doesn't mean you like, oh, now I'll just bully him back. It's like, that's just a fucking endless cycle of violence. And so like that's sort of this dynamic that is,

there is no good win, but ultimately, if you keep on bombing as your solution, you're just gonna keep on killing and you're gonna keep on getting hated and the whole thing will just keep on cycling. And you're gonna keep on losing American support because Americans more and more are looking at it like why the fuck are we sending billions of dollars over there? Like why am I paying taxes on my labor here in the United States to send over to your country so you can bomb your

problem while simultaneously you're passing anti-speech laws in my country that is making it so that I cannot speak out about this other foreign government. I can say all the shit I want about the CIA and about the government and about President Trump on my fucking in my country, but I'm not allowed to criticize another country or I might get deported or I might get like lose my college degree or whatever the fuck goes on. Like not to mention you can't boycott Israel now. Anti-boycott sanctions, divestment policies. They were voting on the other day?

They were about to and it got pulled. That's good. Yeah, I mean, I was on the trigger to start making videos of like, these are all the companies you are not allowed to boycott. Just to be clear, do not boycott these companies. It would be illegal if you were to boycott these fucking companies,

because that's the kind of person I am. Because like don't fuck with our constitution, bro. Like that is not a winning strategy either. Right? Now here's the thing. Always bring up on this that's interesting. Okay. First of all, is very odd.

Like it's called AIPAC, right? So A-I-P-A-C. Replace that I with anything. Not China. Okay? You start with people that we view as enemies, right? Don't even, the ones that we view as enemies, don't even replace it with that. Replace it with a B. For Britain.

If it were AIPAC, or whatever the fuck it would be called, people would be like, why the fuck is Britain lobbying our government to tell us what to do? We, you know what, you might be our friends. We fought a fucking war 250 years ago about this. Well, first off, Britain does and can lobby our government, and they register as a foreign agent to do it. Right. Which is different. And I would argue it's also fucking stupid, and we should stop that. It's stupid. We should stop all of that. But it's designated. But it's designated. It's designated. And one of the, and I'm not a super expert at all

the legal implications of this, but the registration, one of the basic things it does is it forces different standards about where is the money coming from, right? So that we have a lot more transparency about registered foreign agents, about where the money's coming from and what it's funding and all this stuff. Sure. Whereas AIPAC does not have to do that because it's American. Right.

And so point being, like, I'll put myself in Israel's shoes for a second. We have a democracy here in America that- Well, we have a republic that is democratic in nature. Okay. Either way, shamanics. I know, I know. Right? A free place of ideas where, you know, which also has its downsides of people being able

to curry influence and stuff like that. So I'm all the way over here in the Middle East. Everyone hates me. These guys, this country is my friend. I'm gonna find every way I can to keep them close to me. And one of the ways I can do that, there's other ways we've talked about already today, but one of the ways I can do that is to curry influence there,

which they've always been doing. So they use our system that we allow them to do. They're allowed to do it. It's in the open. And they curry favor among our politicians because they give money that they're freely allowed to give to do it. And so I always turn around and say on this, why the fuck haven't we looked internally to stop that? Why do we not say they need to be a foreign registered agent? Like there and, and, and

two years ago, two years ago, pre October 7th, the easy argument would have been because they already have too much influence and you could still make that argument today but if you look at like I'll use the example Thomas Massey on the right side, which is completely a packed up except for him and he's a libertarian He's listed as like a Republican, but he's a pure libertarian guy When he's come out against a pack which no one on his side does It's upped his numbers. They go after him, but it's it's that's I'm saying it's upped his numbers So why is America not looking internally and saying you know what like fuck it? You know they they're right now. They're free to pay candidates that may be more supportive of them

But like people don't want to see any countries let alone people that you know even claim to be our allies Influencing what we do here in America and influencing laws here in America. So why don't we change that? Why don't we look internally and change that? I don't know there's two answers to that at least and the first one is that a process of public support shifting takes a long Time right and so Massey is an example of someone who stands on principle and his numbers have gone up because he stood on those principles, right? But all the other right wingers that are already funded by APAC, they're fucking cushion, they're making all their money. There's probably some other checks floating around. They're doing great from all that influence from APAC. And so you would

have to slowly unseat those people from like the public voting them out over time. And that would not be easy because APAC will pour fucking money in to defeat you. But the other big one, and this is like the big fucking crux on the center of the table that none of the pro-Israel people have a very rational or strong argument about is Epstein. Like Epstein is clearly a like it is clearly a Jewish organization on behalf of Israel like and I think that it is just one cell of a global trafficking network of many different blackmail operations Diddy included that because like they're all plugged into the human like all human are Jewish and Israeli, but Epstein's cell was clearly Jewish and Israeli aligned. And that that blackmail is still being held by whoever his handlers were. And it does not line up in any in any picture in my mind, that the CIA was running that I agree. And it does not it certainly does not line up that Qatar was running that. And people even try to say that you're a paid, right? I've got to get my fucking paycheck somehow.

And I've even heard people allege that he was a Saudi asset, which is like, Leslie Wexner's entire life was dedicated to financing Israel, pro-Israeli organizations to founding the Wexner Heritage Foundation to Holocaust remembrance things to pro-Israel. George Bush is like reps with in the Israel. And that's another element of this too, is I recently heard people discussing how like Israel is all alone, like Israel doesn't have a foundation, Israel doesn't have all these like these powerful grids. Like, are you kidding me? Like, Israel has foundation on foundation on foundation on foundation, Israel has entire censorship like networks of organizations.

foundation on foundation on foundation, Israel has entire censorship like networks of organizations. And like, I hate to go down the route, but like the anti Semitic conspiracy theory, which is a really propagandistic term, that there's a lot of powerful Jews in powerful places that can pull a lot of strings. And I'm just talking in terms of facts. I'm not saying that it's like some giant Jewish cabal conspiracy that they're like controlling everything through this. I'm just saying that when you happen to have like a Jewish person as the CEO of MSNBC and of Fox News, Fox News is an alignment of Murdoch, but Facebook and all these places, banks as well,

and it's not all of them, but it's a fuckload. They are not anti-Israel, and they have every incentive to be pro-Israel, right? We do also, I'm not denying that there are a ton of organizations within media, and particularly in some other stuff, where you can look at the top of the C-suite at different companies and see

that there is a Jewish person there. But sometimes, I think the other side of this argument is that we focus in on all the ones that have that and then kind of like delete all the ones that don't. And so I'm not saying that there's not influence there. There is guys like Arnon Milshon exist. All right, you guys can Google him. It's all admitted, right? Like that is a real thing. So here's where it gets conflated into an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, kind of an art like attack on this.

I'm not saying that they control everything. What I'm saying is that they are in those positions. That person individually is that thing, and that person individually is that thing. If you work at that company and you're like the most popular news anchor at MSNBC and your CEO is going to Israel to do the Menhaki games. I forget what it's called. It's like, what's his name? Brian Johnson, I forget. And you start coming out hard against Israel on your primetime show on his network. Is he going to like, are you going to keep your job? Is he going to, and I'm not saying he'll for sure fire you. I'm just asking like,

are you allowed on his network to do that I think yeah I know it like fair play like I mean in some regards it's his company it's private company like well it's actually a public company but in some regards like I know what you're saying fair but what I'm saying is that Israel is not alone I'm saying that Israel has very powerful partners in very powerful places in very many industries including a lot of cultural and media aligned industries, as well as banking and finance industries. That's, that's the one thing. It's very easy. And I see a lot of guys do this, where they just say like, Oh, this guy's in charge of this company, Jewish connections, exactly. But it's not

that simple. I also grew up in New Jersey, bro. All my friends are Italian, Irish, Jewish, Greek, and Mexican. You know what I mean? So like, it's fucking- Well, that's the thing is that every Jew is an individual, right? Yes. And they'll have their individual loyalties and opinions and perspectives.

And a lot of Jews that live around the world do not support Bibi Netanyahu. That's right. Right, like we were saying earlier, a lot of them support Israel, but not Bibi. A lot of them don't even support, they're not even really that down with Israel, right? So there's like this individuality to each of these people.

And you can be down with Israel as the country and have an allegiance to that as someone who is a part of the Jewish diaspora and not be down with the current actions, the same way that I'm not down with fucking Dick Cheney's regime. You know what I mean? Like, we've got to make that distinction to be able to have the conversation because there's so many people who are just going so far with this and they're co-mingling all the terms

and it's getting like uncomfortable to listen to. If we're gonna have a diplomatic conversation to do what? Stop fucking people dying here, children dying. Like, let's do it in a way that actually moves it forward instead of playing like a fucking this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy game. You wanna play it in a way that actually moves it forward instead of playing like a fucking this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy game. You wanna play it with a guy like that,

who's directly up on the screen, who's directly tied to Epstein and has said a lot of interesting things that fucking John Kiriakou went in on with Piers Morgan. Yeah, Dershowitz is still walking free. Right? No one's fucking put him on trial. Knock yourself out with that.

But you know, there's so many threads we hang on to with certain people. It's like focus on the people who we can tie things to that are not doing things that are positive to say stop the war in Gaza. But there is an element to this that I think is not contentious, though it is uncomfortable to talk about, in that suppose you have 10 Jews around the world in their own individual lives running companies and being successful world in their own individual lives, running companies and being successful people in whatever they're doing, right?

Israel's, like some of them don't like Israel, some of them love Israel, some of them are in between, whatever. Israel still has all the ability in the world and incentive in the world to pressure them to like Israel, right? Okay. Agreeable?

As in, I'm not saying that like, they're all gonna get along with Israel and they're all gonna go along with it, but Israel certainly has every reason to approach them and be like, why would you not support us? And like, and I think that every Jewish person around the world feels this pressure in a certain way, and some people have no problem with it, that's fine,

it's like, those are my people, I love them. And some people, I think it's uncomfortable to be a Jew right now, because if you have any criticism of Israel, you can be, you know, ostracized by your people. You can be kicked out of the family. There is immense cultural in-pressure from the Jewish people for perfectly understandable reason

to conform to like, you must support the, at least the basic truth of global Judaism, because we are a people at risk at all times, right? And so Jewish people are targets of pressure in a way of global Judaism because we are a people at risk at all times, right? And so Jewish people are targets of pressure in a way that makes it complicated for them to deal with, right? And that it's not like if you're Jewish, you just have to make a personal choice. Do I support Israel or do I not?

If you want to not support Israel as a Jewish person today, you unfortunately have to make a conscious choice to go through some shit if you're going to in any way speak up against it or do anything against it. I think that every Jewish person online that is in the media that speaks up against it can attest to how they are treated by the rest of the Jewish community for that kind of criticism. The other aspect of that that is subtle, and I don't wanna overstate it,

but it is an important factor to think about in the intelligence agency world here, is that when Jewish intelligence, or sorry, when Israeli intelligence, very important distinction, is recruiting, the first person you're gonna go to is Jewish people. Like obviously, if you're the mafia and you're trying to recruit somewhere

and there's an Italian there, you're gonna go to the Italian people. Like obviously, if you're the mafia and you're trying to recruit somewhere and there's an Italian there, you're gonna go to the Italian, obviously. Because there's always been in grouping of racial stuff when you're doing secret stuff, when you're doing criminal stuff, when you're over stuff, that's obvious because you gotta keep secrets. You gotta be able to trust them, right?

And so if a Jewish person is in an organization, the first person that Israel will approach if they're trying to get in there is that Jewish person. And so that is this like dual loyalty question that is impossible to answer. And that gets to this heart of why I think that, I mean, we're here now and I'm not saying we should destroy Israel. Certainly not saying that because those are people and they, you know, you can't fucking hurt, you know, try not to hurt people. But I do think that it was a mistake to found the Jewish state because just the existence of Israel as the Jewish state, that inherently places the dual loyalty question

on every Jewish person around the world, whether they deserve it or not. Hold on one second. So you could look at another stateless people right now, like the Kurds, which is a whole rabbit hole and stuff like that, who also have a diaspora that exists in some effect around the world. And if they were, I think, righteously at some point given land here, you could say the same thing about them. I think the largest part of the issue with Israel is the fact of the land where it was founded, more than anything. Not to say there wouldn't be a problem, any land you founded on that previously belonged to someone else. There's always gonna be a problem. I wanna make that clear. But the fact that it was the holiest of the holiest land literally written about in the

oldest books that exist in the human fucking language. You know what I mean? Yeah, I would agree that's a bigger factor. I'm just saying this is an important factor to understand in terms of how intelligence agency operations and especially like a Jeffrey Epstein type of operation works. Because a lot of the things that are actually playing out on the world stage right now are intelligence agency and organized crime style operations. And we need to understand that. And so when you look at the Jeffrey Epstein network, it's like it's not a mistake of why it's all Jewish people around him at

the top, like mostly all Jewish people is because like those are who you can trust with that kind of an operation. Those are who like, like duh. Right. And it's the same same with all the other like, you the other organized crime groups. Yakuza, Mafia, all of them. No, you make a good point. It's always that way. And so it gets conflicted. I think that the people like I, I'll just say myself, when I'm talking about this, I

get smeared as being anti-Semitic because I'm pointing out Jewish people in these contexts. Like Lucien Grange, for example, is involved in the Diddy suit, right? Although his name was mysteriously taken off of Lil Rod's lawsuit. Same with Universal Music Group, just fucking point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. what was happening at it. And I've not seen any evidence that he's associated with Israeli intelligence.

I've not seen any evidence that he's associated with Assad or anything like that, but I certainly have seen stuff that looks like he kind of is acting in a mobster kind of way here in America. And so when I look at the music industry as one example, to kind of dive into a rabbit's hole, rat's nest real quick, the music industry has a lot of indications that there's still mob-like tendencies being utilized by some,

probably not all, of the Jewish executives in the music industry. And there's a long history in the music industry of the Jewish mob specifically using that industry to launder money and to control things and to do all sorts of fucking operations, right? And so when you're looking at that type of operation, it is relevant if someone is Jewish or not, but that's not to say, and it's important not to conflate it, that every Jewish person is inherently a part of it, right? And so when you look at the Israel dual loyalty thing

that I was just talking on, it's unfortunate, because like, because Israel is what it is. If for example, and what was the Jonathan Pollard? Like Jonathan Pollard is a great example of like a Jewish person who is an American who rises up the ranks in America to high level in the American government and then turns and is a spy for Israel, right?

And like, I mean, another good example is Jeffrey Epstein. Dude was born in New York. Another good example is Leslie Wexner. Dude was born in Ohio, right? I'm pretty sure. He's American. No. I believe he is.

I'm pretty sure he's American. Yeah. Can we check that? Leslie Wexner? I think I'm confusing it because I got on that train and I was like, wait a minute, is Benjamin Netanyahu fucking born American? He's not. He's not.

He's not, but he moved here as a kid. But that's what I was telling him. Chilton, him. Dayton, Ohio. Yeah, exactly. Right and so that is the sort of dual loyalty question that is just Messy and it's not it's unavoidable and I think that any serious like CIA operative would understand that question, right? Like if you're a CIA operative and you're working alongside a man, do you know what happens the day one and CIA? They take them back to a room alongside a Jewish man. Do you know what happens the day one in CIA? They take them back to a room, they call it the red light room, of the biggest espionage

threats and it's like Israel, China, and Russia. Bingo, right? They already know. Right? And it's obvious why you would be concerned about working alongside a Chinese person, right? It's obvious why we'd be concerned about working alongside a Russian, right? And we have lots of evidence of Israel spying on America,

doing covert operations against America, stealing technology from America, and documenting the 9-11 attacks in some strange way, at least elements of their government doing that. And so that's where it's like the smear of this is an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory is a propaganda tactic and it is very well used and overused and it is destructive to actual anti-Semitism. That's I agree 100% and that's where my point I was making a couple minutes ago comes into where people just loosely pull on every person who happens to be Jewish and

then also eliminate all the people who are non-Jewish to create like a smaller strike zone because then they can be accused of that and it takes away from an important conversation that may have to happen. It's a complicated and a fine line that requires discernment, it requires deep research and often you don't know if someone is Jewish. It's not like everyone has a fucking Wikipedia page that will just tell you. And so it's like you have to take it all with a lot of grains of salt and you have to think very critically about it because because

ultimately it is important to come back to remembering that even if you hate what Israel's doing, even if you hate that they're bombing children and you think that they're the worst thing ever and they don't even deserve to exist, even if that's you, you still got to remember that the dude next door to you that's Jewish, he's just a dude, he's just a wonderful dude raising his family. Like the fan, and like these people know intimately in their family, their grandparents come from a time

when they saw what can happen if, you know, everyone turns on Jewish people. And like, and even today, I mean, I would argue, I would plead, and you know, a lot of people will be pissed off this, I would plead that Jewish people should really work on growing a thicker skin. Like, and like, right, like you should grow a thicker skin. Unless he's like, cut, cut the mic. Right? What I mean by that, what I mean by that is that when every, like when a criticism of a Jewish person like Jeffrey Epstein is like an offense to Judaism, it's like,

bro, calm down, dude. Calm the fuck down. Like, I am not criticizing you, right? And in the exact same way that like, when you're growing up and you take offense at every little insult at you and you like get really reactive, people will start little insult at you and you get really reactive, people will start just fucking poking you

just to get a reaction, right? And as a teacher, you see this with kids all the time. The kid that can't take a fucking joke, they're constantly tormented because then suddenly all the little kids are like, ah, fucking Peter has a big nose. Like, Donnie looks stupid, right? And then they just get more, and it's like,

just grow thick skin. It's okay to, like, don't worry if someone makes a jab at you that it's harmless. Don't worry if someone makes a funny like, like, and it is when it is harmless, right? Yeah, I think, I think, yes, there's a fine line and there's still, there's still also a clear line there too. I'll fix that afterwards. Don't worry. But like, you know, you see like the recent example with Dave Portnoy, that's what and and there were people coming out I'm like, oh and they were using your argument like oh gross some thick skin if someone comes into your business Even if it wasn't his business and puts up a sign like that the sign said like fuck or something like that

I'm not really fucked Imagine if that said fuck the and insert another race here No one would argue with with people, know like going to get like with with with someone like Portnoy responding that being like yo fuck that and we're calling out these I'm just thinking about it first if it said if they fuck the if it said that hundred percent people would be behind like being like all right who the fuck did this hundred but no doubt in my mind there would you'd have the people who are like even like the most like anti-

What if it says fuck white people? Oh, I would, I wouldn't be about, I would not be about that at all. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that America wouldn't have a problem with it right now. If he went after that, I would have no problem with him going after people. And yes, unfortunately, there would be people in America

be like, yeah, that's the patriarchy, man. But there'd be a lot of people who'd be like, yo, fuck that, that's racist as fuck. But you're right, there's a double standard. There's a weird double standard on some stuff But I'm saying if there were other race it's cuz whites are like the top of the what's it called the intersectionality curve or whatever But if it's any minority group or whatever that was on that sign and you insert that word there No one would be given poor noise shit for trying to call this out But they're giving them shit right now because they're like, oh you can't take it because you're Jewish

So I think there has to be like a clear line in the sand there. But like you said, it's like, that's a dumb fucking like bad move, bro. Don't make that sign. Like that's not, that's not helpful to anyone. That doesn't even like, doesn't help your fucking cause. No, right. And then, and then also it's like, then they're coming after Dave Porter for that. It's like, like, bro, it's his private business, dude. Like he can fucking do that if you, if he wants to like get over it, dude. That's how it goes. Don't like, you know, don't bring in a sign into Julian Dory's podcast. It's like, fuck Julian Dory. He's a show, right? Duh. It's like everything about that interaction is just like garbage

human. I don't like you got to think skinny. You'd be like that. And that's what I'm saying is that I'm not saying that it's, we should just make it okay to fucking attack Jewish people. Definitely not saying that. What I'm saying is that where should just make it okay to fucking attack Jewish people. Definitely not saying that. What I'm saying is that where you see opportunities in your life to kind of take the high road and just like, and reorient a situation into building a relationship instead of building a attack or a victimization or a, when there are genuine opportunities

that we find for those things, it's good to try to take them, right? Because I think there's a lot of times when someone feels a certain way about Israel and a Jewish person takes that as like a personal offense and it becomes a character attack problem that widens the divide, right? Whereas I've met lots of Jewish people

that don't take that reaction and instead they're like, why do you think that? Or they're like, I don't agree with you, but they will treat you as a whole person with other opinions too. And those people, you just get along with them. Great, it's no problem. And it's like suddenly those are ways of interacting that bring us closer together. Dude, that's how almost everyone I've talked to in my life is.

The people who aren't like this are the weird people on Twitter who I a keyboard and a pride backed by every yeah Twitter is a rage fest that just Prioritizes and promotes hatred and fighting and division. We got it like not not to be a total hippie here, but we got it Just get a lot. Why can't everyone just get along everyone like you were saying cooler heads I've got to take the high road and prevail here. I think we're in a growing period, right? We're in a period where this conversation is opening and it's uncomfortable and it's hard, and no one's a fucking expert, and even the experts have their dogma and indoctrination.

And so it's just this really messy conversation where I would hope that the people that are anti-Israel can grow to empathize more and understand Israel more, and I would hope that the people that are anti-Israel can grow to empathize more and understand Israel more. And I would hope that people that are pro-Israel can learn to empathize and understand more the plight of the Palestinians. And hopefully we can all just mature a little bit by little bit by little bit by having more conversations and more like in-person real interactions with people that are different than you and see the humanity and other people because like violence is cycles, right? And it always will cycle.

And if you just keep killing people, they'll keep killing you and you'll keep killing them and it'll never end. Never end. Yeah. That's a great spot to close it, Ian Carroll. Yes, sir. This has been entertaining as hell.

Thanks, man. I am very impressed with the depth of things you look at and I appreciate you going through difficult topics and asking difficult questions, and there's people who are gonna agree with you, disagree with you all in between. I got a lot to learn still, yeah. Yeah, things are always moving.

New information's always coming out, and I know you're gonna be at the forefront of trying to get it. Trying to learn. Working everyone, Vanya. You can find me on YouTube at Ian Carroll's show. That's where I'm making most of my stuff right now, trying to go longer digs. And then my Twitter is at Ian Carroll Show. That's where I'm making most of my stuff right now, trying to go longer digs.

And then my Twitter is at Ian Carroll Show, although I'm being less and less active on it. And my website is CancellianCarroll.com if you want to support me, get merch or keep up with other kind of like new giveaways and stuff that I'm doing. So All right. Well, all the links down below. Thanks, Ian.

See you, though. Everyone else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino. The excitement doesn't stop there, with over 3,000 games to choose from including fan favorites

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