Julian Dorey Podcast - #316 - REACTING to CIA Torture Session, Waterboarding & Sociopathic Spy | Julian Dorey

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

FULL TOMMY G DOCUMENTARY: https://youtu.be/U_ajUzTiC6U?si=oTUbjdIicoBHLmII PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 1:31 - Julian agreed to be tortured w/ Tommy G, How it worked 6:59 - How the idea was born 9:25 - Julian goes to Milwaukee, the white van 11:36 - Tommy G is a brave guy 12:58 - Julian meets Navy Dive Team Operator Torturer 14:35 - Production Crew, The Abandoned Warehouse was SINISTER 17:58 - Andy and crew meet while Tommy & Julian meet the nurse 20:58 - Cameraman Dre hints at how bad it’s gonna be 22:32 - Filming the liability waivers 23:42 - Julian & Tommy get abducted off the street (*FOOTAGE*) 29:28 - Julian’s “compliant” strategy, Andrew Bustamante RIPS abduction van around city 32:00 - Tommy very not smart strategy to escape w/ a nail (*FOOTAGE*) 35:39 - The van arrives at warehouse 39:07 - The warehouse location 42:06 - Julian & Tommy enter t0rture chamber 45:01 - First tactics Bustamante used 50:37 - Bustamante was sociopathic 53:52 - Tommy gets ice tortured, CIA waterboarding procedures 59:59 - How Bustamante structured each round & mid-game interviews 1:04:09 - Tommy ends round 2 1:05:36 - Bustamante begins torturing Julian (*FOOTAGE*) 1:09:49 - Ice and water interrogation on mat (FOOTAGE) 1:16:59 - The water t0rture begins 1:21:48 - Julian breaks on final water round (FOOTAGE) 1:26:41 - The Aftermath: “Everybody breaks” 1:27:38 - Julian’s thoughts on the use of t0rture in US 1:32:34 - Tommy decides to keep the t0rture train going, Julian finds a bad blanket 1:35:53 - Julian’s instant reaction videos (FOOTAGE) 1:39:25 - Next round of interrogation begins (Stress Positions) 1:44:21 - Julian & Tommy get put in SERE Position 1:50:03 - The last stress position 1:53:05 - Tommy’s journalism right after (FOOTAGE) 1:56:08 - Julian & Andy go get a coffee, Post-game dinner with the whole team 1:57:09 - Everybody made it realistic, John Kiriakou 1:59:18 - The 2 ways the reaction will go CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 316 - Julian Dorey & Joey Deef Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is where I'm getting a little psyched out because I know this is what I'm gonna get next. They start interrogating him on the floor and they have him in the stress position. They threw the ice on him. They also put an ice pack on his back and it starts. Alright Tommy, this is really simple. What is 1 plus 2? And Tommy goes 4. When you don't answer the question, your friend is gonna suffer. What is 1 plus 2? Tommy would go 4 and I'm watching the mask go in and out and he's like, What's 1 plus 2? He's like, 3. And they're like, OK, get it off. Get it off.

Get it off. What Tommy's getting is an aspect of waterboarding while that's happening. Then after a while, I hear, Julian, you haven't answered our question yet. A psycho from Blackwater takes my head. He goes, what is the capital of the United States? Guadalajara.

That is not correct. And you feel like you're drowning. And I'm shaking. I'm trying to get air. And I'm getting maybe get air and I'm getting No, I'm watching TV and they're like get it off get it off get it off And I go I ain't dying for this like it was bad, but they're like alright. There's one more and it's the worst one What's up guys Joe deep and I recorded this episode a couple weeks ago when I got back from Milwaukee

The trip I took with Tommy G where we filmed that documentary on his channel. So we were going to put it out as a Patreon episode, but we decided to put it out as a full episode this week for you guys to enjoy. If you haven't seen the documentary yet, that link is going to be in my description below. And if you're not subscribed to my channel, please hit that subscribe button and hit that like button on the video as well. Enjoy the show. Alright everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Great Society with me, Julian Dorey and Joey D. Philippis. How you doing? How you doing? Alright, so, ya boy, as in me, went through a little something earlier this week, completely voluntary, with a good friend of mine, Tommy G, out in an undisclosed location in the Midwest,

but we decided to do a video on Tommy G's channel, it's gonna come out in two weeks. Just a reminder, that G's channel. It's going to come out in two weeks. Just a reminder that video is already up. Where Tommy and I agreed to be abducted by Andy Bustamante, your favorite resident CIA spy and a Navy dive team special operations guy who was Blackwater as well, where they would take us to an abandoned warehouse and put us through the CIA enhanced interrogation program, i.e. torture us for the day and capture it all on film, which we did. So that was a very long day. Certainly interesting background. And yeah, that's that's kind of where we're at, Joe.

Yeah, walk me through that. What was the vibe? What was actually the first question I have for you is they obviously came and I assume kidnapped you like they pulled you off. Off the streets of Milwaukee. Okay. Yeah, we had to clear that with the police before the day.

So that they knew. Smart. Smart. I mean, honestly, I feel like they still woulda kicked the Milwaukee police before the day. So that they're new. Smart, smart. I mean, honestly, I feel like they still would have kicked the Milwaukee police force's ass. You know, like it wouldn't have mattered, but still a good precautionary thing to do. My question though is, what were you suspected of? Like, why were you such a key target for them?

So that's, they made it simpler. Okay. And this actually, in made it simpler. Okay. And this was, this actually in hindsight, this worked well. Like the day before Tommy was texting me while I was at the airport, like, oh, we gotta come up with that, like three different things that we're hiding.

So I'm gonna be hiding the location of a very wanted car thief, somebody with the cartels. And he went on this whole thing. He's like, you gotta come up with three. so I came up with like three things just based on podcast guess I had and then Andy was saying you know what no let's just do it where I'm gonna ask you the simplest stupid question like what's one plus one what's the capital of America so that's literally what he did the questions throughout the day were one plus two and what's the capital of America? So that's literally what he did. The questions throughout the day were one plus two, what's the capital of America?

And you got to say like five or something else that's not Washington DC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you do the you do the correct answer when you actually break. But we weren't, therefore suspected of anything. But it worked very well because it made us just focus on what was happening and insane experience man I mean we'll walk through it today and what it was but it is very I don't know what the word is I'll say this isn't the word I'm looking for, but it is very enlightening for me to have

experienced the things that we, to now have experienced the things that we debate on this show when you have an Andy, when you have an Ajan Kiriakou and they're talking about these things. All right. Now Prime Day is here with great kitchen deals. Greatness is a deal away. So if you love baking, you can get a deal on a new mixer, transforming you into the Lord of the Loaves.

Hear ye, hear ye, make way for the barren of brioche, the salty enough sourdough, the Lord of the Loaves, Prime Member Dave! Yeah, uh, hi? Shop great Prime Day deals now. champions of the world are in the FIFA Club World Cup. The world's best players, Messi, Holland, Kane and more are all taking part and you can watch every match for free on Dazone starting on June 14th and running until July 13th. Sign up now at Dazone.com slash FIFA. That's D-A-Z-N.com slash FIFA. Let me back that up a second. Have I lived it in the sense that I was in a place that I could not get out of and I actually could have been killed? No. You know in the back of your head the whole time, even when you do get disoriented, which does happen, you know that, you know, this is an Al Jazeera film and this is like Dre and Miguel and your boys. And as much as they are in character the whole time,

and we'll get to that, they were completely in character the whole day, it was like kind of scary. You know that you can say stop and it all ends, right? So I cannot simulate what it would be like to be captured by a terrorist organization and actually I can't make it end and I better tell them what they want. There's no possible way to completely simulate that. But as far as the things that the tactics that are used and the things that are done

upon you know people who are caught. Yeah, yeah I mean I got a form of waterboarding. We got to there. We'll get to that. So, you know, definitely, definitely useful to be able to know that feeling. So the next time I'm talking about it on the show and someone's like, we should do it or we should. And I can be like, well, here's how I felt. Yeah. You know, that is definitely cool. But basically the way this, you just want me to like walk through this and you

asked me well I was gonna well first and foremost I was gonna say folks I seen the tapes you know Jade J Dory's a fucking dog I'll tell you that much he definitely like oh man I was cracking up because everything you were telling me and then watching the videos You were just being such a fucking smartass and I loved it. Yeah, I loved it Yeah, which is not the strategy at first that I'll explain they did it sadistically Okay, so Tommy There was a documentary that I helped

What's the word put I guess like put together last year, meaning like some of the people that were involved for Tommy, it's actually like the best content that was done on the subject matter, I think, which is really saying something considering he got shoved under the rug, but he did a documentary on the Trump assassination attempt like a month after the attempt. And so that's where he met Andy because I set him up with Andy and Danny Hall, sniper special forces dude. And then Andy brought in one other guy who I didn't know, but that he's worked

with for the secret security aspect of it. And they put together this amazing documentary, spent the weekend out on site where Trump was, you know, where they shot at him. on site where Trump was, you know, where they shot at him. And so Tommy called me after that weekend and said, yeah so I was talking to Andy and he wants to do a video where he puts me through Sears School. I'm like oh cool like the torture stuff and you know with the Hanson-Tarr kids. He's like yeah. How long do you know, with the Hanson-Turk edge. He's like, yeah. How well do you know Andy? Pretty fucking well. I mean, I know him very well.

He's been on my show a bunch. And he's a friend. He's definitely still in the CIA, but he's a friend. He's like, yeah, I feel like he's a little bit too excited about this. Tommy was like, you know, like a little from this one, from the get-go. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll turn it off. Tommy was this one, from the get-go. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll take that one.

Tommy was a little bit from the get-go, like what is this gonna be? And so he's like, if I did this, would you come do it with me? I'm like 100%, I'd come do it with you. Didn't really think about it. But anyway, this took a while to get everyone's schedules lined up and figure out where it would be done and all that.

So we ironed it out like this spring. All right. We're going to do it in June. We'll do it out in Milwaukee where Tommy lives and we're going to rent out an abandoned warehouse for a couple of days, get a full, what I would call like a, you know, our word van. It was a, it was a white van with no windows, metal floors. Candy van.

Oh yeah. And you know, we'll get kidnapped, we'll clear that with the cops ahead of time because people are gonna be like, what the fuck is happening? And then we will actually go through it and do it. So I go to fly, I also shout out to Brian from my gym So, I go to fly, I also shout out to Brian from my gym, who filled in on episode 290 on the board with Matt Hedger and Shawnee Delaney.

But he can't like, a few days before this, he came to the gym, he's like, yeah, man, I haven't been here. I've been sick as a dog goes through all this shit he had, and like dabs me up. And I was thinking to myself That's not good that he just dabbed me up. Yeah, so by Saturday night I was I had the worst head cold I've had in God knows how long to where I didn't have the flu But it felt like you had the flu and so when I woke up Monday morning to go to the flight I was like, oh no, because I got to do this shit tomorrow like I feel like dog shit.

So I get to Tommy's house at like nine oh when I get to it when I get into Milwaukee Tommy's producer Keegan comes to pick me up love Keegan that's my boy. I'm like standing outside the gate like, all right, you here? And he goes, yeah, right here. Whips up in the white van. And I'm like, oh, you gotta be fucking kidding me. I'm like, you would pick me up in this.

So I put my shit in the back. Like, it's literally just, he bought all the supply. He said he had to go to Walmart, like four different Walmarts, because he's like, if I went to one, I was getting arrested. Bro, like, it looks so sketchy. Honestly, even probably still looks sketchy going to multiple Walmarts. It definitely did. Because this motherfucker, we get on the road, and he's just talking to me really casually. Keegan was in episode 2 what was that? 242 with Tommy G like he was you'll hear him in that episode. He's like the calmest guy

He's talking with me calm and collected and I look over the motherfuckers whipping 85 and this man and I hear like Doosh-doosh back there and it's not my luggage. It's the bucket that they're gonna use to torture me the next day. So I'm like oh this is already whatever. So I get to Tommy's house Andy and maybe dive team guy aren't getting into like you know 1230 or 1 a.m. so Tommy and I take a walk we're talking about it and like Tommy G is one of the most about it brave motherfuckers I've ever met like definitely in our business. I know in the YouTube business that's not a high bar. Like, you know, we're all pretty

soft but like Tommy is about that life. Brandon Buckingham is another dude who I would say is about that life. And Tommy, you know, you're talking about a college wrestler dude who is always very excited and like incredibly positive and happy but will go into the most dangerous places no questions asked yeah and go get it and like I mean he's wearing bulletproof vests to certain places he's starting to do crazy stories in Mexico in like dangerous places and I was talking to him like you gotta go with like Ed Calderon or something like chill yeah basically like Tommy's one of those dudes when you go, is this

person about that life? Tommy is about that. And so when I'm walking with him, I think he was just like, he had been researching all the shit they do. I hadn't even Googled a thing. I was just like, well, I just let it happen. But he was so like, this is going to be bad. And I say that as a foreshadowing in the sense that I should have been thinking, damn, this

is going to be bad. I should have been thinking that too. And I was like, what's the worst that could happen? So I go to bed, I'm like, I got to sleep off this fucking head cold. And I wake up in the morning, I'm in one of the guest rooms at his house, and so there's two beds in there, and the dive team guy, who I've never met before, is sleeping in that bed, wakes up at the same time. Hey man, how are ya? So we go downstairs, we have a coffee, we're relaxing, it's like 630 in the morning, and I'm thinking to myself, his name's Trevor, great guy, I'm thinking to myself, His name's Trevor great guy. I'm thinking to myself

Oh, no, Andy brought the wrong dude. This guy's so fucking nice We're yeah. Yeah, we're just chilling like this This is the nicest guy ever like how the fuck is this guy gonna do like this needs to be convincing Yeah, you know and so then Andy comes down and Andy I know Andy so I know Andy has to switch I already know that about him. He knows he can be like hey, how are you and then like hold on Let me pull your fucking tooth out like he's that dude so We're all talking relaxing and the one thing I was talking with them about is I'm like, you know I don't know what this is gonna be like But I'm saying we are doing content today. It's gonna be real, but we got to make this also entertaining. So, you know

We may be talking some shit or busting balls or whatever. What do you guys think? And they're like, yeah, yeah, you could try that Just like I don't like the sound of that word Yeah, I don't like the sound of that word. Yeah, I don't like that either. Okay, so we all, we get in the car like 745, drive over to where it's going to be. Now, I got to give a huge shout out to Tommy, Miguel, Keegan, and the whole team for picking out the location they did. They picked out an abandoned brewery. It was like a 160, 170 year old abandoned brewery.

You're talking six, seven story warehouse, something like that. And when we walked in and Tommy had Tommy had five full cameramen which includes Miguel who was directing the whole thing Miguel is Tommy's lead editor who? For my money is the best editor on YouTube. He's absolutely incredible. Yeah, he's cracked great fucking dude so good and so Make Keegan was there producing and then they had five cameramen including Miguel. Miguel Dre who does a lot of lead videography for them on site when Miguel's directing. Who the hell else? Drew was there.

I think there were a couple others. Like there were people coming in. It was almost weird. There were like people coming in and out like have I seen you yet today? I'm like disoriented like who the fuck are you? And then Tommy had two of his childhood best friends in there to be security guards as well. And the cameramen would step in, I think,

like as a little bit of security too. And so one of his friends was like, you know, ex-military, you know, fucking six foot, 250 pound fire plug. I'm like, oh, and he balled, like, not balled, like crew cut, like all the way down to the skin, goatee, fucking, you know, arms protruding like this. Just looked like the dude who hasn't had breakfast

every day perennially, and is just upset about it. He never stops getting upset about it. Yeah. So, we walk up and everyone's like saying hello, shaking my hand, the people I didn't know, but they're all looking at me like, like they're happy to meet me, but they're like, oh fuck, like we gotta start to separate and get into character here a little bit. It was like a weird kind of thing. So we get in there, we walk around the first floor of the warehouse, which is not where we're gonna be taken.

But just the first floor of the warehouse, bro, it was dark. Alright, so it's dirty, obviously it's a fucking warehouse, but there was like a random, in one section there was a random church altar with a random chandelier above it. I mean, it looked like, it looked like a torture chamber down there. I'd see like loose nails and glass shards, more on that later, and a random hammer on the ground and shit. There's like boxes of shit that's like, uh... Yeah, it was like straight abandoned. Stuck. Yeah, yeah. I'm showing Deef some pictures here. But this is... Yeah.

This is like the back of the first floor, and that's Andy and Trevor walking in. That was the altar in the corner with like the... And you're talking the the great Brick stone back. Yeah, it's so held you see you see all the this is where we got tortured So this is this is upstairs. They they brought us upstairs for one second before they had anything up there And they're like get the fuck out of here but anyway, so

after like ten minutes Andy says alright. I going to have a meeting with everyone, Tommy and Julian. There's like a side spot way off to the side of the building. This building had to be 12,000 square feet, something like that. I mean it was big. Maybe more. And probably more because it's six fucking floors.

I didn't go onto every floor and see what it was. But they're like, you go through those trap doors and then through that room there's a door right there and that's actually where the bathroom is where it's like an abandoned office. So shut that shut both doors so you can't hear anything and go chill in there. You feel like Karen in Goodfellas when De Niro's like just go into the store pick out a coat. Yeah, there was a little bit of like oh they're having a meeting but it wasn't it wasn't like that so we go back there and I'm thinking they're gonna meet for like 15 minutes hmm no it was not 15 minutes so

we had a nurse that we hired to be on site all day. Nice Wisconsin girl. And I'm like, you have no fucking idea what you got yourself into, hun. Like, she was so sweet. So she walked, right when we got in there, she actually walked through that door. She was like, oh, hi, I'm the nurse. And Tommy's like, oh, oh, great, very nice to meet you, whatever. They're meeting back there.

You should probably go with them. So she's like, okay. goes back to meet with them. Malekha, they were meeting for over an hour. It was like an hour and 15 minutes. And Tommy's in there fucking doing, hold on, I have some hilarious videos. Like meditating. No, Tommy's in there... kicking shit around. Where's the video of him...

Hold on, I gotta find this. I sent it to Miguel. He's like, he's like, bro, this snitch might be really bad. I'm like, yeah, it's not gonna be great. He starts fucking kicking. The fuck you say there? The fuck you say to that?

What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? Get up. Get your ass out of here. Stop. Stop. Get your ass out of here. Get your ass out of here.

He's like, what the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? What the fuck you say to that? I'm just laughing my ass off watching this.

I'm just laughing my ass off watching this Got to him stocking I'm like Tommy. It's not a fucking it's not a fucking wrestling match, but he was just like It's start after a little while It was starting to worry me. I'm like have I thought about this enough and actually I was in the wrong He was in the right he had thought about this a lot Yeah, I thought about this and I'm like I like that though. That's how I would have I'm like this is This might be hard today so

after I was maybe an hour 15 minutes Dre the lead videographer for the day, walks through the door because he's got to come take a piss. And you know, Drey's cool as shit. He's like a Culiacan Mexican kind of dude. And just one of those guys is like quiet and drips swag. He's, all right, Dre, on a scale of one to 10, 10 being very, very, very bad. What are we looking at? I know you can't give me details, but what are we looking at today?

And Dre goes, he just looks at Tommy like this and like darts over to me and goes. Whoo. Whoo. this and like darts over to me and goes just breathe he's just breathing doesn't not say and it i'm thinking at first when he starts i'm like, all right, she's trying to dramatize This goes on for 20 25 seconds and he just keeps like looking up back up at each of us He's like you sorry and then just walks to the bathroom and shuts the door and Tommy literally like Watches him walk to the bathroom, turns back to me and goes,

Oh, this is really bad. I'm just like, this was when it set in, where I was like, I'm going to feel a lot of pain today. This is not great. So then everybody comes in and Andy has Miguel take the camera and everyone, the whole crew's in there. And Sarah, we got to film the liability waivers right now. Like liability waivers.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So Tommy walks up there and he goes, okay, I, Andrew Bustamante, owner of Everyday Spy, am going to be conducting a CIA enhanced torture interrogation today on this man, Tommy G. Please state your name for the record hi I'm Tommy Grzeszewski and and he said like his full I can't even say his full last name it's a Polish name and Andy was like do that again I Tommy Grzeszewski agreed to release all liability on injuries and

any pain that may be inflicted upon me by this man and the other guy over there and their company. And then they had me come up and do the same thing. I busted Andy's balls about still being in the CIA. And then they're like, all right, let's get to position. So Miguel comes up and he says, so here's how it's going to go down. Julian, you're going to be taken off the street and you're not going to resist. You're going to be, you know, they're going to surround you and you're going to be like, okay, Tommy's gonna go down. Julian, you're gonna be taken off the street and you're not gonna resist. You're gonna be, you know, they're gonna surround you and you're gonna be like, okay, Tommy's gonna resist. So I'm like, okay, they're gonna drive you out. Julian, just be filming.

We're gonna have cameraman Jack with you and you're gonna be filming, talking to the cameras if you're doing a piece of content in Milwaukee. So I'm thinking to myself, all right, I'll do like the Kia boys or something like that. Like, oh, my friend Tommy G has me out here investigating the Kia boys. And so they drive us in cars, like half mile away. And we see behind us as we're driving, they put Tommy and me in the trunk of the car

because we couldn't even fit, which was like a good start for the day, I guess. And we see the white van being whipped around behind us with Andy in the driver's seat and Trevor dive team guy which by the way I forgot this point when we got to the warehouse before they even started meeting the character went on like he was nice in the car the whole way I'm sitting in the backseat with him Tommy and Andy are in the front seat when we were driving there early in the morning we're just bullshitting and talking and then we got there and we walked into the warehouse and it was like this He walk he's a Jason Statham looking motherfucker. He walks in there like hmm

And his body just transformed into that and I watched him started to pace with Andy and he started staying away from us. And I was like, ooh. Okay. You know what? He might- Oh yeah, that nice guy. He might be good.

This might work. So we get in the car, we're in the trunk driving there to the to the drop-off points They drop me and Jack off first and Jack is also the the other editor main editor on Tommy's channel We don't really talented guy So Jack and I are walking on this street, and I don't know where it's coming from Jack has the radio so he knows where stuff's coming and he's like alright I'm gonna start filming you just walk with me like and start talking to the camera sign oh what the fuck I said but I'm like I'm here you know investigating the key boys with my boy Tommy G and as I'm walking I suddenly see a parked white van right there and the thing opens up and Jason comes out he goes. Julian Dory? Yeah. Need you to come with me sir.

Good job. Oh. Hand behind your back. Fuck. Mr. Dory, everything will explain to you in a few minutes. Lawyer. I need you to continue to comply. Lawyer.

End of the test. Let's put it in the next one. Well, this is a day roaner. Hey, we're on a timeout right now, but you're going to stay here and hang out, buddy, all right? Sounds good. Lawyer. I'm just saying lawyer. Lawyer.

And then they zip tie me in the back. I'm like, lawyer. And then they lay me down prone in the back of the van And I'm like, okay I can stop saying lawyer now But I feel that they start fucking with my head and pushing my head against the metal and turning me which they didn't know this But I have like I've always had like a loose disc right here in my neck And this is the one position that like if I even go to sleep on that it's not good

So they started doing that I'm like, oh I even go to sleep on that, it's not good. So they started doing that, I'm like, oh fuck, this is gonna be a long day. And so, two minutes later, I hear like, they stopped the van, and it's Andy driving the van too, but they stopped the van, and then, 10 seconds later, I hear, what the fuck? Fuck you, fuck, get the fuck off me! And then suddenly I hear, boom!

Shh! The fucking fans! Get out. Fuck! Get the fuck off me! And then suddenly I hear... BOOM! The fucking feds! Fuck! Call my lawyer Dan Adams! Call my lawyer! Tom? Dan Adams! Tom?

Who is that? Mr. Tommy. What the fuck did you do? Who is that? We're rolling, we're rolling! It's Julie, you fucking dick. What the fuck are you doing here? Ha!

And Tom, he's thrown into the van. He's like What the fuck is this shit? And they're like, get on your knees, get on your knees. And I'm like, god damn it. And then suddenly, he's thrown down next to me. He's like, what the fuck? What's happening? And I'm like, Tom? You're like trying to do like a little script to make it sound convincing,

but it's so real that you're like, and you're a hooded. So I'm laying down zip tied. He's like, who is that? And I'm like, it's Julian. What the fuck did you get his hands in? But it answer? But the delivery was not that good. When I was listening to the cameras back later on some of the stuff we later did, the delivery on camera sounded better than it sounded in my head.

So I'm sure everything will sound better. And I thought, but it's not like on a podcast where your delivery can be exact and like on point and you know exactly how you're saying something and inflated, there's none of that that like you are locked the fuck in so they put us in the back and Tommy's He's resisting right and so he had resisted outside and after that first line that didn't land perfectly I was like, you know what? Because I've been quiet in the two minutes before he got in the van

I was like, alright, he's he keeps trying to make jokes and stuff and I feel them. They're laying down the fucking crazy bald guy or crew cut guy is laying knees in his back and pushing his head down like this and like pulling his arms up. It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavours. So what should we talk about? No sugar added? Neutral.

Refreshingly simple. And then they come over and push my head down in and whatever, but they were lighter with me because I was compliant. Right. So I said, okay, this is good content because it's also it's this is going on Tommy's channel. So people know him. They don't know me. This works out well.

I'm like, he'll be the resistor and I'll be quiet and compliant. I'm like, maybe I'll make it a little less painful, too It worked at first yeah, yeah, so I Just kind of said they're silently and they're like laying on Tom They would come over and like hit me like a little bit but nothing Nothing that wasn't like I is that the best you got? You know what I mean? laying on Tom, they would come over and like hit me like a little bit, but nothing, nothing that wasn't like, is that the best you got? You know what I mean? It wasn't, it wasn't anything crazy. And then while, and I know where we are, we're a half mile from the warehouse.

So once they pick up Tommy, when we were driving for another three minutes and Andy is ripping this van, bro. I mean, he's not driving the speed limit at all and he's taking hard stops and whatever. Within about three, four minutes I realize oh they're taking us for a loop. Because in my head I'm like okay I'm trying to navigate where I am because I got my surroundings so I'm like left okay just made a right. I just made another right so we're probably back about where they picked me up alright now he's going straight. I just stopped at a light and're probably back about where they picked me up right now. He's going straight I just stopped at a light and went straight like I'm doing this in my head to also pass the time and I'm like no

No, no once after a while. I'm like no we're far away now I don't know where the fuck we are, but I'm tracking the rights and left and he would say like three minutes to drop Like he'd yell it out, and then three minutes would go by and we're not there Yeah, and then and then like four minutes after that He's like one minute to drop and it took another six minutes for us to get there something like that I'm a little off like the times tough but it wasn't a minute and There was one point like a minute before we got there where he he revved up the van

I don't know how fast we're going, but pretty fucking fast, and went on the brakes. I mean, he must have blown out the brake pads. And our bodies went, boom! Like, forward, like, head. I don't think the head hit the door, but it stopped right before the door, because they had us probably four feet back. So I'm like, five feet back. And I was like, whoa. And again, I'm helplessly zip-tied at the back.

There's nothing, there is nothing to do here. Like Tommy was talking with me before, he's like, yo, if we can figure out some ways to escape, that would be great content. And even before, I was like, Tommy, there's five cameramen, multiple security guards, a psycho from Blackwater, and the most insane person I know, Andy Bustamante. I don't think we're gonna be escaping. Not a shot in hell!

Oh, this was the best part, I forgot this. I told you there was shit lying around on the ground. He found a nail, and he's like, oh, this is good, and puts the nail in his hoodie. I said, Tom! Today you're Jason Bourne. Or you could say, fuck it, I'm Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible. A little, uh, something that they don't know is gotta fucking shank on me.

Yeah, that's, we can't do that because that's gonna insinuate that we knew we were getting kidnapped. So you can't take that. That's gonna insinuate that we knew we were getting kidnapped. So you can't take that. Also, that guy's got a family. Don't shank him. It's content. No, no, no. I just want them to find it in the search.

They're like, oh. Why would you have a nail on you as a man on the street reporter? Something way more logical would be your keys, because you could hit a drug dealer with that or something yeah you're not gonna have a nail yeah that's it that's not that's not realistic you keister this and we'll talk about it later all right you would have keys and you do have keys right there so just use those.

You don't know what kind of weapons they carry regularly? A nail's not a weapon. You'd have a knife maybe. Yeah, yeah, you could have a Swiss Army knife. Do you have one? I've said that I didn't even know about. Right. Alright, well then carry that. A nail's not... They would never buy that in a script. Oh yeah, Brad Pitt. Is that what you think? Nails not... they would never buy that in a script. Oh yeah, Brad Pitt? Is that what you think?

No, I'm just saying in general. I don't give a fuck who it is. Like, would Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible be carrying around a nail? No, he wouldn't. No one would believe it. What if he stopped at a construction site just around the corner and thought, my spidey senses are kicking in, so... That I'm gonna get kidnapped in a fucking van right now? Well, I just published the Epstein files. Someone's after me. I need to be ready. Yeah, but you would have been ready with a knife from home.

You would have thought about that before you went out. You wouldn't just suddenly be out in the middle of a city like, oh, right, now I know I'm in danger. I published this fucking three days ago, but now I know I'm in danger. Hold on, There's a nail Why the fuck would you have a nail he's like fresh off the fence I'm like no no no no I know We're getting kidnapped. We're not supposed to know we're getting kidnapped

What sociopaths would carry around a nail and Dre was filming this Dre with Dre was, this is when Dre was back there. He's just cracking up filming this. He's like, I don't know, I mean, you need a weapon on you. I'm like, so you would have a knife! Maybe you carry a knife! Maybe you have a concealed carry, you wouldn't have a fucking nail! I'm like, lose the fucking, I threw the nail away. Like, lose the nail. And then I was thinking, damn, that nail would have been nice. But, anyway, so he had been talking about, like, trying to escape. And I'm... once we were in that van, I'm like, oh... Dude.

You, like, it's like you have not a shot in hell. There's no escaping here. Especially, like, in the real, real stakes. They would be putting your ass down. Bro. There's no's no escaping whatsoever. So anyway, they get there and I knew where they were pulling us into, because I'd already seen the dock. The dock is like a warehouse dock.

It's a single garage. It's not like a huge, it's a single garage and it's got a six foot platform at the back. So I knew they were going to back it in and just back the back of the van into it, which that footage actually looks sick. So he did, and he did it slowly. I was thinking Andy was going to be a psycho, but I think he was actually thinking about not crashing the car. Like he did this slowly and carefully, got it all the way back. And I hear them go, follow our directions to a tee, Tommy. And they start on him and they get him out of there and they bring him out.

And it's funny, cause like, again, the two guys who are the security with the diver are his lifelong best friends. And they're in it, bro. Like they're fucking game in it. Like almost like they've been looking forward to doing this with Tommy. And so they get him out of there and I hear him resisting like,

F**K YOU! Like, that's the other thing. Tommy G doesn't change up for anybody. And so, like, I'm gonna get to points where he was struggling later that was killing me inside while they were doing it to him and not to me yet. But like, this is so bad, but it was hard not to laugh sometimes because... When you get under the stress, everyone else, including me, like primal... Very... I wouldn't even call it masculine, just primal sounds come out, like... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

WHAAAA! WHAAA! You know, like shit like that. WHAAA! WHAAA! Whereas Tommy would be like... AAAAAAA! Yeah, yeah damn it. So then they get me up. And again, I'm totally compliant. I'm like, I'm just compliant. I don't even know if they had two guys.

I think they might've done one. And then they handed it off. There was definitely two once I got to the elevator, Chef. But it might've just been one dude bringing me out of there because they're like, because he actually later said this while we were live, like, like you're compliant. So we're, you know, like you adjust it for that.

So that was a good call to be like that, at least for a while. So they take me towards the elevator shaft and while they're waiting for it, they shoved my head into the wall. And like, you know, I got the full cement cement and they're like holding me there in the corner so now I can feel like you're on the corner of the wall and I can feel my nose like this and again I am hooded we are hooded the hoods Tommy grabbed the hood in the morning goes god, God damn it Keegan. It's like you can see through these a little bit. You could, but not a lot.

Like he was supposed to get a literal blackout curtain. Yeah, yeah. But you could tell it was like, you know when you're watching a movie and someone's disoriented and they put a visual effect on it to where they just see shadows and shit but they can make out shapes and and yeah things that are it was like that so i'm in this hood they get me up the elevator shaft and it gets to the top and they take us out now again the location of this i got off this point the location was so incredible.

Hey guys, if you haven't already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button, it's a huge, huge help. Thank you. If you... I can dock where this is because people are going to see it in the dock. If you Google Milwaukee Public Market, let's do that on a Google Map. Let's do that on a Google map. It's basically, if people are familiar with Philadelphia, the Redding terminal, which is like this amazing, like all these little, you know, food spots, but like places where you can buy fresh food and stuff. It's like a marketplace. This was a really nice.

Yeah, that's exactly it. This was, this was a really nice, yeah, that's exactly it. This was, this was a really nice, smaller version of that. So if we let's see here, zoom out. Okay, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to go up here and direct real fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Milwaukee. direct real fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Milwaukee. One second. So this is Milwaukee right here. All right. All the main city which I didn't even know was I thought fucking 10 people lived here. Yeah, I never been I went west once last year. Yeah, I've never I went west once last year. Yeah

I've never been in Wisconsin West of Pennsylvania other than that. Okay, so I land in Milwaukee and I'm like, oh there's fucking buildings Like there are people that live But oh we don't have camera for but you have it up on camera five, right? Yeah, so This public market is all still the main city. And then zoom in right here. Right there, okay? See those train tracks? Remember those things.

This, zoom out. This is an old drawbridge right here and it is now no man's land. It is an empty, old, forgotten about manufacturing part of the city. And when you're walking, Andy and I, when the day was over at like four o'clock, Tommy had to do, he was doing interviews with each of us. So in the half hour that he was interviewing the dive team guy, Andy's like, yeah, I want to go get like a smoothie or something. I'm like, I need a coffee, let's go. So he and I walked from here to the public market and got that.

And on our way back walking towards the bridge and over it, we were like, this is static's unbelievable. Yeah. Like the, like the, the iced out words that are faded away, the drawbridge. This is a river back here. And the best part was they didn't even put, this is the drawbridge right here. The best part is they didn't even put this is the drovers right here The best part is they didn't even plan this but the railroad tracks So this is what got creepy they get us upstairs and

They they get us they get us they like, Tommy's still resisting. So they get me in the chair, I'm not resisting. They zip tie my feet to, it's a metal folding chair. They zip tie my feet to the chair and my hands behind me. And then Tommy keeps resisting. So they're like, stand him up. And they cut off all his clothes. So I had my clothes on and I thought this was an advantage and it was for a little while.

We'll get to that. But it turned out to not be an advantage. So Tommy's down to just his fucking briefs and they put him in the chair and so right when they get him down in the chair they kind of step back and there's a little silence and then if you've seen the godfather when Michael goes to shoot so lots Oh, sorry fucking spoiler alert if you haven't fucking seen that movie You haven't seen it right? Yeah, if you haven't get out of the rock you're hiding under yeah, but when he goes to shoot so lots

Oh Francis Ford Coppola did this sound effect He was like he because it's the turning moment in this kid's life where he's now going to go to the dark side and he's, and he's thinking about it, panicking, panicking, panicking, panicking before he does it. And Francis put a growing train in the background. So it was like, yeah. So they sit us down in the chairs and there's like a moment of silence for a second and we hear

the train go Yeah, and like I couldn't see this but apparently Miguel was just like Like Miguel Was enjoying this he was very I've never seen Miguel this animated before we started the day. Like he was so excited. He had his cameraman set up. He had the whole thing like ready to go. He was telling Andy like, no, no, no, do more, do more, do more. Like, oh, gee, thanks. But anyway, so I'm like this is, and also the back of the way like we were in the middle where it's dark And then there's a giant area where the elevator shaft is blocks off the light because on the other side

There's windows and the windows are cracked out or like, you know When they're so dusty that like you can't I have a video of it like where you can't see through them Mm-hmm, and they're old and and when the when the train tracks would come by the glass would shake. Oh And they're old and and when the when the train tracks would come by the glass would shake I I was calling my agent afterwards because I was like we need to put this like you need to pass this around WME This location should be used exterior and interior For a shoot if and it could pass as anything like when you look outside of it It could be LA it could be Milwaukee. It could be Atlanta like it could be Milwaukee, it could be Atlanta. Like it looks so fucking perfect. So that, when that train's coming, we're just like, and so they start and Tommy keeps resisting.

So they start by putting Tommy down and, and they're hitting us too, a little bit. They're hitting me. They're hitting him harder. I think, I mean, I didn't feel it, but it sounded like they were hitting him harder. Because he's resisting. Right? So they then say, alright, transit position please. And actually, can we pull up Tommy's Instagram? Yeah.

Because I can show people. Ah, it's got music on it. Well, we just keep it on mute. But go to his Instagram and he has one video This is from the beginning of the torture. This is like right after This is within 10 minutes of us getting there go over to the video It's the last slide just don't put audio on because there's music. Yeah, I got it muted. Oh go back So go fuck that was go back. Go back one. No, no. Oh, my bad. So that was one we were being taken out of the van behind him. You see the dive team guy Jason

Statham in the back. Behind him is the is the garage and the van is backed in and I am lying down prone in it. This is when Tom's getting taken and these are his two buddies. Right? So dude on the right is military guy I told you about. And then dude on the left, Justin, who... That motherfucker hits pretty hard. I later found out he was doing a lot of hitting. I thought it was always dive team guy, but it was him too.

They were both doing it, but Justin... It's just kind of funny because he's like the nicest guy. He's like Tommy's lifelong best friend. He's like fucking whacking us and shit. But anyway, go to the next one. This is what it ended up looking like, because obviously my clothes did get taken at some point. But that's Tommy on the right and me on the left.

There was also very strange lighting here in the room. The lighting was incredible, to be clear. What's interesting though is it, this is a perfect example, it depended where you stood. Tommy and I have like the same kind of pale skin tone, but if you were a little bit to the right of the light, you look like, you know, you lived in Miami. If you were a little bit to the left, you look like you lived in Alaska. It was kind of funny. But anyway, so it was like this, except I still have my clothes on when I was doing this if... I'll wait for you to pull up another thing, but go all the way to the right.

Oh, okay, stay there. Go back. Go back. This is... They started putting them in this transit position right here, which is where you're zip-tied at your ankles and hands hands and they make you sit there for five minutes and it's not comfortable that one was the least bothersome of anything i did all day though i could have held that one i could have held that one for over an hour no problem it would it would

it once we got to probably 45 minutes it would have sucked but i could have done that. The other ones, oh no, go over, skip this one, we'll come back to that, and this is the video. So you see him in transit, Andy pushes him over, I'm there still clothed, and he's like resisting, he's saying like, ah, can't we negotiate, and they're like, fuck you, and then they're telling him what to do with his feet, and he's not doing it. So again, I'm just sitting there

quietly not by, I love Justin changing his hat too. He's like, Oh, I gotta look good for the shot. But he, and he's like hitting them. But they, you know, they were zip tying us hard. So that's, that's enough for that right now. The way Tommy fell off. Oh yeah. Like Andy, he's like, you still with, are you still with us? And then he like flops over and he goes, I'm still here. And when he flopped over, you can hear it on the mic, the audio they got on this was incredible. You can hear his foot hit my flesh. And I remember that moment and I'm like, and I'm kind of like looking through the hood and I can make him out and just like, God damn it. like Jesus why are you funny? Oh?

Yeah, yeah, but anyway, so they're doing this to him now go back go back one Okay on this So then they put now this is skipping ahead a little bit But then they put Tommy flat on the floor now We are hooded and they zipied the backs of our hoods, so they could tighten them up, and, you know, Navy Seal guy would come over and fucking push my head down into my chest, or pull my head straight back for no reason and say, SHIT IT THERE.

I'm like, alright, Jason, relax. But, you know, I'm not saying anything to them. At one point, Tommy gets on the floor before any of the water happens and he says something like Julian, I don't even remember what he said. And I started to say, not now Tom, right? I was like, right now we're just two assholes and then I hear a whack on my face and I finish the line unperturbed in a warehouse. Like, I didn't even stop on the slap. Which they were telling me later, they're like, yeah, we were a bit concerned because we'd hit you and you wouldn't do anything.

And I'm like, oh, I felt it. And they're like, yeah, we weren't sure. Like, is he disoriented or something? Because they would like hit me and I would just just sit there and it didn't feel good I wasn't like some tough guy like I could take this off. I was like, well this fucking blows but they would just you would just hear And they'd be like, oh, okay That's it, bro dog. That was a fucking dog. So That's it bro. Dog. Fucking dog. So they start interrogating him on the floor and I can't remember we're gonna find out in the documentary I think it was before

they did ice water on him. He was the way they set this up I think I said this earlier but they wanted us to know to say like one plus two. Uh-huh. Or what is the capital United States Like those were the two questions. Yeah, it's like basic questions. So we started off with one plus two. The best one. This was the minute we got in there. Like the second we got in there and sat down. He goes, all right, Tommy, this is really simple. What is one plus

two? And Tommy goes three. I'm I just look over there Like what are you an idiot? You're supposed to say five and so Andy was like unperturbed and pretended like you didn't hear right goes so you're saying that you know what one plus two is and Tommy goes catch four. I'm like, all right, that's better. He's like, it is not four! And it starts. Which, I also forgot this detail. When we sat down in the chairs, once they got Tommy's clothes cut off, and they sat us down and the train happened and it got quiet.

When Andy Bustamante opened his mouth, you know, this is someone I do call a friend. And someone I've known who is a very complex character, someone I've known for a long time. Yeah, I'm not just saying this to say, I know him better than anyone in this business. And, you know, we get along really well. I know Andy has the switch though. When he opened his mouth to begin talking, you will hear it in the documentary, he was so calm and the instant, it's just hard to explain, but the instant he opened his mouth and started talking, it didn't even matter what he was saying, it felt like sadistic. It felt completely sociafucking pathic and I tensed up

because I went I had already told you about dive team guy getting into character but I was like oh I'm gonna be in pain today because and because Andy and I are competitive with each other too and I know I'm gonna be in pain today. And, cause Andy and I are competitive with each other too, and I know I'm gonna be competitive with him, which means I'm gonna feel some fucking pain. And it sent a chill up my spine. He put Jason Clarke in the first scene of Zero Dark Thirty to shame. Because, and I'm not ripping Jason Clarke,

I thought he was great in that movie, and he's a great actor, but like, you know, that first scene where they're at the black site torturing an al-Qaeda guy, he's like, when you lie, I hurt you. I hurt, and he's talking loud and hard. And I'm not saying that like, that's not realistic. I'm sure that happens.

But when you have a guy saying, when you lie, we're going to hurt you. And you won't like it, but we're gonna do it. That calmness and that, I can't even do the delivery justice, is like, and you know the person. You're like, oh shit. Now again, I'm staying quiet. I'm literally, until we got to the warehouse line when Tommy's on the ground, I'm not saying anything. Then they dump the ice water, pull up that picture, if you don't mind, Joe, the one you had. They do this to Tommy, you guys just saw this a minute ago. But he dumps the full ice bucket on him

and I'm looking at that spot and I can see it through the hood and I can see it happen. And, you know, also, can we zoom in on Andy's face there? Yeah. Like do can we zoom in on Andy's face there? Yeah. Like do a hard zoom in. Bro, you see the look in his eye? I tweeted this out yesterday. That is the look of a man who says this ain't my first time to the rodeo.

That was the other thing I thought when his voice turned on. I knew Andy had been a part of these things, but I immediately realized, oh, he's been a part of a lot more of these than I thought. This is like a nine to five for him. So he pours this on him and I see that. You hear Tommy go, ah, ah yeah. And like, I'm like trying not to laugh below there, but then I see it and I see that the water has soaked his hood. And I see his head – they had his head turn in a stress position and you know his hands are zip-tied behind his back.

I know it's cold but I can see the mask every time you breathe in and I know what that is. I've seen this stuff before. I understand what happens when a cloth mask like that gets wet. The water is seeped in through the fabric. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Uh-hmm. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... And it's heavy to the point that it's sensitive to air.

So when you go to pull in air, you will pull in the mask. It will go into your mouth. You cannot stop it. If you go to pull it to your nose, it will go to your nose. You cannot stop it. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... Uh-hmm. Dr. Justin Marchegiani... And when you do, it gives you, this is a minor, I don't know, I don't even want to call it minor. This is a sensation of waterboarding. Tommy is getting a type of waterboarding. Now, let's go through the signs of waterboarding so people are very

clear. And I have not seen, I've only seen the first waterboard I went through, which I'll get to that. I haven't seen the second, so I don't know if they did it. I'm gonna find out on the footage. I saw the aftermath of the footage, which I'll get to. I'm getting at it myself. But the way that the Enhanced Interrogation Program that was designed in the 2000s, post 9-11 worked, is that I believe it was 10 seconds. They had to file protocols and they were videoing all

this stuff even though Gina Haspel destroyed all the tapes later so maybe sometimes they didn't. But you know with like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was the mastermind for Al Qaeda of 9-11, it's well documented that he got waterboarded many, many times. And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, not to say anything positive about this guy, but I do have to say this one thing was kind of savage. When they would waterboard him, the way they do it is they have him zip-tied and he's in a cloth mask like me, just everything's the same as me except they then lean him back, prone, 90 degrees like this, and they pour water over his face for a span of 10

seconds I believe was the limit that they had. And so they count to ten, one, two, and you feel like you're drowning because you can't breathe, the mass is pulled back over you and you're receiving water in your nose and mouth. And it is, I'm going to explain later, it is the worst fucking feeling ever. And then they have to pull them up and let them breathe. And that's what they would do. And so Khalid Sheikh Mohammed used to, he was such a savage with this, he used to hold his hands out, like with underneath the zip tie. So it's like not to his side, like I'm holding it.

It's behind his back and his fingers would count. One, two, the while he's getting waterboard, which feels like way longer than it is, by the way, three, four, five. And he would laugh because he knew that they had to stop at 10 and they would with him. So they'd stop at 10 and pull him up and he could breathe. That's why he didn't break for so long. knew that they had to stop at 10 and they, and they would with him. So they'd stop at 10 and pull him up and he could breathe. That's why he didn't break for so long. And so what Tommy's getting there is he's not getting it straight in his mouth. He's not getting the prolonged 10 seconds, but he, they threw the ice on him.

They also put an ice pack on his back, right? You don't see that right now. They put that on right after. And then they threw the ice and water on him and then kicked all the ice against his body in his face and his body and It completely soaked his mask and they have him in the stress position And now I was getting upset because I know it's real and my boys down there and you just hear And I'm watching the mask go in and out he is getting an aspect of waterboarding while that's happening and he sat there, motherfucker

held out. I—at times hard to—I mean, we're gonna review it later and we'll see what the time was but he must have held out for like 5 minutes. He was answering questions, what's 1 plus 2? I told you, it's 4! And like fighting them. And uh—then event And then they would leave, okay, well you can sit there, and I'd just hear him breathing like this.

And it's also, this is where I'm getting a little psyched out because I know this is what I'm gonna get next. I know that. And I'm like preparing my body like, oh shit. And I see him holding out, so I'm like, well I better fucking hold out too. Can't be a bitch about this. And like more, it was also, again,

like Andy and I are competitive motherfuckers and we're competitive with each other. Like when we're talking and things like that on the podcast and it's on a whole different level right here, because I'm like this sadistic fuck. You ain't getting me. And so Tommy holds out for a while and you can just hear the labored breathing

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More on that later. But the ice is all there and it didn't matter because his fucking hood was already soaked and So after like five minutes, and he's like what's one plus two? He's like three and they're like okay Get it off get it off get it off. So what they would do This is I actually skipped this is round two All the stress positions when the video we showed putting him in transit and him not complying and fucking with them and fucking with all Of us and hit it but they would start to hit me

when you don't answer the question your friend is gonna suffer what is 1 plus 2? Tommy would go 4 and they had my they pulled my shirt up like this, they had it pulled up like this and you can't see it coming and they would go BOOM like on my stomach and then Tommy would answer it wrong again, they go BOOM on my stomach and then Tommy would answer it wrong again They go boom on my head and then he'd answer it wrong again They go boom on the other side of my head and I'm like, okay And he felt a certain type of way about that cuz I'm getting hit now, right?

But it's nothing like what that stuff you take all day what he's taking right there Yeah, it's nothing like that. So he held out, but at the end of, before they put him on the ground with the ice water, I think if I remember correctly, they had him on the ground and we're fucking with him. They had been fucking with us for 45 minutes or whatever, and they stopped and they said, get him up. And again, this is before what we're seeing right now.

And they took us and dragged us to the back by where those blown out windows are and it's light behind the elevator shaft. And they sit us down on the bucket. They say, take off the zip ties. They take off the zip ties. They're like, take off the hoods. Take off the hoods.

And they go, and everyone's in front of us, dead serious looking. It's the first time we're seeing everyone since we were abducted. And Andy and dive team guy are serious, but calm the cameras all the cameras are set up the security guards are there the nurse who's already horrified is there and They're like, okay, they're not like being like hey guys. How are you? But they're like we're off We're gonna get live reaction to how you're feeling about what's happening, because it's analysis.

Okay, we're off, you're not captives right now, we're making the content right now. And Andy and dive team guy did the whole interview and they would ask us questions. They were very nice, but not like, again. Yeah, yeah, buddy, not buddy, buddy. Right, but they're like, so when we hit you like that, how did that feel?

And my anger towards both of them was going away when we were doing this. Cause like you do feel, listen, you're a human being, like they're doing this shit to you, even in the first round, which turned out to be the easiest round, you're feeling a little mad at them. Like don't fucking hit my knees against the metal like that asshole, it's a YouTube video.

But no, they're like, we're gonna make it real, so they made it real. But Tommy and I would answer the questions and then they're like, okay, you ready? Yeah, we're ready. Hood, zip ties, let's go. And they take us back and that's when this starts. Okay, so they put him right down on the floor, I think like right at the start, they him on the floor and they start doing what I just described to you with all the ice and everything. So after he... I think he was there for longer than five minutes. He was breathing in that fucking wet hood for a while. It was a while, bro. Bro. And you, and I'm hearing, because Andy would say sadistic things, not sadistic, but it would just sound sadistic, and come back and ask the question, and then there would be silence. And like, I couldn't even make out the cameramen. I saw footage later of

the cameramen moving around, I never noticed them. I never noticed where they were, they were killing it, man. And so, you know, anything, and that was the other thing that freaked me out. When Tommy was resisting and would do something funny, nobody laughed. Like nobody, even in round one, no one laughed. I'm thinking, okay, security guards and Andy and dive team guy are really in character. But I'm like, none of the cameramen? Like no one's smiling a little bit? Yeah, no. Everyone was probably mortified.

They were very- it's not even- I don't even think they could have been mortified yet in round one. They were just- they were in it, bro. They're like, yo, let's get this shit. Like, for the content, for God in content. But anyway, so He's there for a while and I keep in those moments long moments of silence. I just keep hearing And is and again his heads turned you can't eat the picture doesn't do its justice his head is turned to the side too Like against the hardwood going like that and then

finally Andy comes over. What's one plus two? And he says three and they're like get him out, get him out, get him out. So they they immediately help him like like it like it turned off like a switch. They're like you good you good? Okay. And so they put a security guard comes over and grabs my arm and then I hear and everyone walks to the back because they're gonna go take him off now put him on the bucket and get his live reaction and I don't know how long they were back there maybe it was 20 minutes you're disoriented. It could have been two minutes but seeing as they interviewed him it was probably closer than 15-20 something like that and I'm just sitting there and

I'm not in pain I'm zip-tied to the chair. It's not comfortable, but I'm fine like you know They the worst that it happened to me was they've been hitting me when he would answer wrong and shit And it was nothing you know I took some harder slaps from my mom But anyway so Then after a while, I hear... and they're all coming back, and I can hear the cameras coming back and everything.

And then I hear Andy. Julian! Julian, we know the answer to 1 plus 2. Did you know the answer to 1 plus 2? Yeah. So you know the answer to 1 plus 2? Yeah. So you knew the entire time and you didn't tell us. That must mean you also know the answer to the capital of the United States, right?

I never got asked. Can you give us the answer to the capital of the United States, Julian? Guadalajara Can you give us the answer to the capital of the United States Julian? Guadalajara You haven't answered our question yet Your turn or something like that. I'm gonna get some quotes some direct quotes wrong. I'm gonna get themes, right? I have not reviewed Like I've only seen little bits of the footage There's only a few lines that I know actually happened and some I can remember perfectly that I said

It's hard to say exactly what they said, but I just kind of was sitting there and I realized okay, Tommy's not coming back So in my head, I'm like, okay, I guess he's taken off for now because he already got it, right? So he's off. I didn't know that for sure. And I didn't hear Tommy, but I'm like, that must be what it is. So now I'm like, well, now I'm on camera. And this whole act of like just being silent and compliant.

Again, we're getting content here. I know the business. I'm like, I'm going to have to talk a little bit, but you're disoriented. So your brain is not thinking clearly. I can't come up with off the cuff stuff like I can with, you know, doing a podcast or something. And also when you're under the hood, everything is extrapolated. Small motions feel like impending doom. Someone could just walk from here to here and it's like, what is that? You know, and you got your hands zipped, eye behind you, your feet,

there's like everything you feel, your senses, your, your sense of space and touch and feel all go through the roof. So you're so on guard that your mouth is almost like, it's not locked like that, but it feels like it is. So he and I go back and forth. I don't remember. I think they started, I was like, he goes, what is the capital of the United States?

And I said, Guadalajara. Just was fun to say. I was like, OK. He's like, that is not correct. And you know that's not correct. That's a lie. And he's like, I think this was. And you know that's not correct. That's a lie. And he's like, I think this was the first time I got transit position.

So they put me in transit position. And then I was still like, what a liar. And then at some point, I hear something sliding behind me. And it finishes sliding. And then Andy takes me and throws me back and as I throw back Was it here Yeah, cuz they had the zip ties on the front my zip ties broke. Mm-hmm right here. No, they were still on my feet and I will tell you

Because you can't see anything and you're disoriented and you've just been thrown back and I feel and it's like a bed feels like a like a like a gym mat bed if that makes sense like like it's that material that you'd roll around on a wrestling mat that's a good way to describe over I'm like oh that's comfortable but I come back and my hands are like this and I know I have people around me so there's no thought of like get up and run or anything like that like you would think you would have you do you're like an infant you're like thrown back like you know fucking take my diaper or something like it's so strange and I'm like okay well at least I'm on something comfortable that's cool Tommy went on the hardwood floor. Maybe this would be better and then Andy starts

Say he says turn or Navy guy someone says like turn him on his stomach They turn me on my stomach They're like pulls clothes up and they pull my hoodie up because again I still have my hoodie and my cutoff on thought that was a huge advantage Big miscalculation they pull it up to my neck and bunch it up, and then Andy takes the bucket and dumps the water and ice on me. And I'm like, oh shit.

There's multiple things set in for me. My mask got soaked, so now I'm experiencing the breathing right away. My whole body's soaked, and there's parts of it that are fully exposed. My legs are basically fully – I was wearing these exact shorts. My legs are basically fully exposed like this. My back is all exposed. I got ice on my back and then the ice that tramp off me, they're kicking into me and I feel them throwing it into me me and Then my hoodie is soaked too So now the water is just gonna sit on my body and seep further into my mask

Through like a cold towel Which is not but I'd rather just be bare-ass back Yeah It's way easier at that point because the water flows off and like I could take that on my bare skin the cold I can take that all day. That's like that was like good. And then he said, what's the capital of of the United States? Every country has a capital every country has a capital and all I want to know is the

capital to the United States I'm not debating right now your decisions as a New Jersey native but I am still looking for the correct answer for the cap of the United States. You got that for me? Well, obviously it's not quite on the heart. So, next best guess, two, two. I appreciate your gumption, Mr. Dory. And so he's like, okay, you can sit and he takes the ice pack like he had with

With Tommy and can you pull up my Twitter real fast? And go down to It was the first tweet I did yesterday. You'll see scroll down Scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down scroll down a little more scroll down Scroll down one more right here. So you see Tommy with the ice pack on his back. That's exactly what they did to me on my back and then up by where Tommy's head is, my hoodie and cutoff were pulled all the way up there.

So my back was exposed. And actually, I have a picture of this. I can text it to you, Dave. They took one picture from the side on this. Miguel sent this to me this morning so you can put this up. You can see what they did. And he got it on text right there. Should be coming.

So, no, I have it on airplane mode, I bet. So they put it on my back and that was fine. It's like, okay, well you can sit and think about it. I'm like, okay, cool. And then, it should be there, do you think? I got it. Okay. So that's it.

So they have me sit there like that, but before they leave, dive team guy takes my head and turns it hard like this and says shit like that. And now my breathing is... And I realize, oh no, this was a pool. The water all seeps that you're indented in it so the water seeps down into your body and into the mass so I'm sitting in a puddle and I very quickly realize I am drowning in a puddle if I sit here I will drown it's like if someone who is totally cognitively impaired lands in a puddle like this and you know they're cognitively impaired physically impaired and they can't move they will drown

even though it's right here they will drown because they are in a puddle and So I then realized I got to hold my chin in this stress position up off the turf by an inch and and I can... And I'm breathing in water every time a little bit, but there's enough air coming. And so I had watched that Bin Laden documentary on Netflix a couple weeks before, and the ginger dude who took out Osama was talking about how... What the fuck is his name? Rab O'Neil.

He's talking about how on the helicopter ride to Pakistan, which was a three-hour ride that night in the Black Hawk to Osama's compound, they were very concerned that once they got over Pakistani territory that they were going to be shot down. And so he decided that he was just going to count to pass the time. And he just started at one. I forget what number he got to, but he knew that if he counted enough, like he could look up and he'd be like, oh, we're almost there or something like that. So immediately in my head, I said, I'm gonna count. I didn't

do it out loud, but I was in my head one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi, four Mississippi, five Mississippi. And maybe like two minutes in, Andy comes over, he goes, looks really, really scared, really uncomfortable down there. You're shivering like crazy because my body's like, it's moving like this. It's, it's completely uncontrollable. Like you can't be like, all right, calm the body, calm the mind. My, my body temperature is going down to like 93 or something like that. And I'm just like, and, ah, ah, ah.

And so he's like, you know, we can get you out of there, no problem, you just gotta tell me what the capital of America is. And I was like, oh, fuck it, it's Sioux City. And in my head I'm like, is that even a place? Like, I hope that's a place. I remember, and then I asked him afterwards, I'm like Andy, Sioux City is a real place, right?

He's like, yes, that is a real place. I'm like, okay, okay. So I didn't make, right? He's like yes, that is a real place. My ho- okay, okay. So I didn't- I didn't make something up. But he's like, that is not the capital. And you know it's not, so you can sit a while longer. Leaves in silence and again. Huff, huff, huff, huff. Holding the chin up off the ground like, one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi, four Mississippi. Huff, huff, huff, three Mississippi. So then he comes back. He asked me again, I don't know what the fuck I said, I'm shivering. And they're like, okay,

stand him up. And so I'm not gonna play the video on air, but I will play it so people can hear. I have some of the raw audio. This isn't the audio on the mics. This isn't even good audio. Dre, the lead videographer, savage that he is, was around with his camera and also in his left hand was sometimes videoing on the iPhone for like a behind the scenes.

So it's not nearly same quality audio visually, but it's pretty wild to watch. So let me just turn on my audio here. same quality audio visually, but it's pretty wild to watch. So let me just turn on my audio here. So you can hear them moving me. In the United States, which I am asking you to explain the catapult. And that term is waterboarding. You've heard that before? So he would take a big chunk of ice and toss it to me.

When they're rolling me up on the mat, they're moving all the ice into me and then they took a chunk of ice this big and stuck it between my calves and my ass. So I'm kneeling on this chunk of ice. And then he's throwing ice underneath my balls. And they're putting all the water below. So you're sitting in an ice bath. Jeez. And your clothes are soaked all over you.

So it's pulling you down more. And then, like, none of the delivery felt good. But when I saw that video back where he's like, are you familiar with that term, Julian? And I'm just like, I'm sitting there shaking like this. I'm like, or he's like, have you ever heard that term before? And I'm like, once or twice. So then, this and this is that you can hear the tone on Andy.

This is the second one. Let me grab this. I know you can't see Tommy right now but if you could see Tommy right now he's in a nice sweatshirt he's not shaking You hear my breathing? Yeah

You can visualize that right? I can visualize how nice and warm would feel how nice and dry would feel He looks fucking great over there. And then he starts. Look ahead forward sir. This is your alternate.

So fucking Navy dive team guys, he's got my hair in a ponytail and my, like pulling it into a makeshift ponytail and is gripping the mask and turning it this way with the zip ties so that So that it would pull everything like like, you know When you see people get suffocated by a plastic bag in the movie, it's like that and I'm breathing in complete water It's soaked. So when you hear me Like I'm trying to get air and I'm getting You know, maybe 5% of oxygen. So my brain, I'm totally disoriented because my brain is not getting enough oxygen. And he's like, so he had him tilt me forward for that one and he dumped the whole bucket.

I didn't show it there. It's not in that clip. But he dumped the whole bucket on me and then When they had asked me after this Well, I'll get to that but dumps the bucket on me and you can't it's all dripping Like you can't breathe at all and it's pretty damn close to being waterboard It's not full because he had my head forward and he didn't do it for 10 seconds, but I was already soaked, like my mask was already soaked, I already had limited

oxygen before we started this, and now it's just like... and I can hear a pin drop everywhere else. I did, I do remember that. I could hear a pin, there's no, like, there's nothing. It's just fucking whatever. There was apparently like one camera guy down there like getting it up close. The other ones had different angles on me. There was one moving guy, but you just couldn't hear anything. And he's like, what is 20 seconds after the first waterboarding, I thought I got it a second time. And the reason I thought that is because Navy guy took my mask and pulled me up like this.

Oh, oh, and made me breathe like that complete water for I don't know how long, it felt like a century. So I was disoriented later and thought that was one of the times I got waterboarded. Because it was like getting waterboarded again. They weren't pouring fresh new water on me, but he had me totally like, whatever, what is the captain?

I'm like, you know, Suzy or Guadalajara. And so I haven't seen the footage of him doing it the second time yet, but when he went to do it the second time, two minutes later, it didn't feel, you feel like I said, you feel like a feeble baby, right? I told you about when the zip ties come off, like you feel like nothing, you can't do anything, so you don't, every motion you feel like you're not even moving much Yeah, you're just like a like a like a stack of rock. They're kicking around and So I I felt all the pain up here, but I was completely unaware of my body other than that. It was shivering. Mm-hmm. And so When I saw the footage of right after they finished the second waterboarding

it's actually like scary to watch because my whole body contorts up to the sky like and it's like I can't even redo this. I don't know what sound came like this deepers. There's something like that and dive team guys like trying to pull me back down. I totally disoriented from anyone's holding me down. There's security. There could be repercussions to like moving. I just went all the way up.

And as I came back down, there's no air. There was no air. And he had my head up to the sky like this. And there was no air, no air to breathe. And I went Washington DC. Washington and they're like get it off, get it off, get it off, get it off and they go, they go to take it off, take the mask off and like when I said Washington DC you weren't relieved yet because um yeah you said that with Tommy. They like...

Well, it's not even that you weren't relieved yet. When they go to take the mask off, they still have to get it off. So you still can't breathe. Now, oh, there was one other thing before that second one happened. I had a strategy in my head that when this starts, I am going to, the minute he does it, like rise my head a little bit, take a breath, and then let, and I was like practicing in my head, my body going limp, which is, I don't know that I could have pulled it off because the shaking's happening

and you can't stop the shaking. So I don't even think this would have worked, but I had a strategy in my head that I was going to like take a breath and then go, and go feeble with my head. So they'd be like, meaning not break and pretend I fainted. And then they would be, they would like get me up and you know, I'd buy some time and I could get some air. The minute they poured the water though, and he pulled my head back and up instantly in my head, there was this thought of I'm not gonna make the ground I'm actually gonna pass out and what if they don't get it off and I

die mmm and so I was at Washington DC and they pulled me down and you can see my face right here this is like four seconds after they pulled the mask off they pulled me down they pulled the mask off they pull me down. They pulled the mask off immediately He was like panicking to get it off. They did not expect him to get this far. Mm-hmm and I I'm like here. They pulled the mask off I look up and I see all the camera guys and I don't have time to take in their faces yet and Couple security guys are back there, too, and I go Hey, I ain't dying for this shit.

Let's clip in and get him in the interview chair. Stand up brother. Relax, Jesus, stay. You have an arm? Who's got the shears? Thank you. Does anybody have the big blue shears? So they're like, all right, get them up, take him back. And they take me to the back and then they take me by the nurse. They're like, they're like, dude,

all right, they all look like they saw a ghost. They're like, get his hoodie off, get his hoodie off. No, I still have the cut off under there. Yeah. They get the hoodie off and it's, it's a puddle. Like three hours later, it was still, it had been hanging. Oh yeah, you can look at it. Look how heavy. You can tell how heavy it looks. It's all the water is just in it. And I still have the cutoff on. And my body, you will see it in the footage when they interview me on the table shit. You sound like R.F. K. And they're like, all right, all right, get the cutoff. I'm like, no, no, no, just leave it on. The cutoff is drenched. It's drenched just like that.

And so I'm like, I'll do it right now. So I get on the bucket and they interview me for maybe 10, 15 minutes. I don't know what the fuck I said. I remember it completely. I just don't know what the fuck I said because I was shaking. And at the end of it I went off

to the side Tommy sat down to do another interview and dive team guy came over to me and like shook my hand he's like bro that was really painful for me to do that well it didn't look fucking painful for you you look you look like you're having a great time but he's like no no like you know I have a job to time." But he's like, no, no, no. Like, you know, I have a job to do today. But he's like, listen, brother, because I guess I said something like this in the interview about I was disappointed that I broke. And he's like, everybody breaks. There's no terrorists that doesn't break. There's no person that doesn't break. It's like that you did amazing. I was like oh wow cool alright great and I'll give some thoughts now on

Torture and whether it works or whatever here's the thing that we couldn't simulate I might have said something like this earlier, but I want to drive this point home He's asking us questions We know the answer to that we all know have no significance and we know there's five cameras back there capturing this for a YouTube video and we know at any time we both had a safe word we could get out and this was over. If this were a real scenario which you cannot simulate where you're actually kidnapped and you're actually being tortured and it has, there's no safe word and you actually are

protecting information that you view as larger than yourself for your country or something, where people's lives are at stake. You cannot simulate what the power or lack of power your mind would be able to pull off to hold out longer. Now I do think everyone would break. I don't think the human body can take it.

Especially when it gets to the electrocuting and stuff like that. Everyone would break. But I knew in my head, and I kept saying this in every interview I did, I'm like, I'm still so we're disoriented. But then I remember in the back of my head, this is content. It's a YouTube video. There's five cameramen. Yeah. And so breaking felt like exactly what I said in the instant reaction when they pulled the hood off. I ain't dying for this shit. Now if I were protecting my brothers from the battlefield and if I gave up information they'd all die, yeah, I might die for this shit. But I'd get to a point where maybe I wouldn't be able to die for this shit and I'd have to give something up because I don't even know who I am anymore. If it went way farther, that's a real thing.

And this begs the question where people are like, does torture work? We talked about it all in the live reaction and we talked about it when we were interviewed at the end too, but it was still during the day and your head's still in it I Don't I don't know I Could see it to where Let's paint the scenario of like CIA is interrogating a terrorist that they think has the answer to something, but he really actually doesn't.

And they interrogate him so bad that eventually he just tells them whatever they want to hear. And he's genuinely trying to be honest, and giving them like the worst shit, because he genuinely has no information to give. That's a terrible scenario, and unfortunately that was the scenario a lot of the time. But then I think about the person who actually does have the information. But then I think about the person who actually does have the information. You know, if it's like the stereotypical what it was in the 2000s and it's terrorists for Al-Qaeda or whatever, yeah, you know, he believes in Allah and those 72 virgins and his fucked up version of Islam. But he gonna break, man. He's gonna break.

And a lot of those guys aren't in the best shape either. Tommy and I are in fucking great shape. Yeah, that's a good point. He's gonna break. Now whether or not that makes some torture justified, it's, listen, I can speak on it now because I've had some of it done to me. It doesn't make me a god on the issue by any stretch of the imagination. Let's not overstate this, but you know, I've been thinking about that a lot like does this really

work is this is this what you know I don't know but they they interviewed us and Tommy was you know Tommy's such a perfectionist and such a genius with his content I was on the phone with him for a while yesterday recapping a lot of stuff and he had looked at a lot of the footage and stuff and he's like, I don't know if we gave the right answer. I'm like, Tommy, you're disoriented. That's the content. People want to see what that person is really like in that moment and when you see us shaking like this, you know, whoa, like he can't even control that. It's the most honest Whoa, like he can't even control that. It's the most honest reaction you could ever have. So, you know, also shout out to the whole team all day,

just fucking crushing it. But like, this is a picture from after, that was right when I was on the bucket. As you're being water-borne, I'll send you this, you can put this up. I don't know how the fuck I was even joking around and like being a real ass person but you're just I'm like shaking my hair out trying to get dry

and I'm still that might have been like when I said you know fucking Jason Statham over here but they still weren't laughing. I could never get them to laugh all day no matter what we did I couldn't get them to laugh. So this No matter what we did, I couldn't get them to laugh. So this was halfway through the day. It had been two rounds where we had been abducted like three hours before and torture had started two hours before and we had so much content which I forgot this part. Miguel was so like in it and like trying to get the best content or whatever that when time I mean you saw this shit he was doing to Tommy you see those images it's and all the camera angles they are you had enough content in those 10 minutes for the whole

video if you wanted it but Miguel was like so in his head I didn't hear any of this but he was like saying Andy when Tommy got done he's like I don't head, I didn't hear any of this, but he was like saying to Andy, when Tommy got done, he's like, I don't have enough. I don't know. I need to go farther. I need more. Thank you. Thank you. Fucking asshole.

So now after the waterboard, they're, they're all like a little, I don't want to make dramatic words here. I don't want to say like traumatized, but they're all a little shook from seeing what Tommy and I went through in that second round and so Andy Goes up to Tom and he's like hey You got a lot of content already. We got a lot of interviews and stuff. I don't think we need to do this afternoon and I Just looked at Tommy and Tommy looked at me and we're

like we're doing it yeah like let's fucking we're here we're in fucking law on bitch yeah so meanwhile I am still shaking now the now the cutoff is off I'm just walking around in my shorts there's no towels mm-hmm so we're trying to send Keegan out to get a towel at from a store and he's not coming back. So I walk over and I find, I'm like, someone's like, ooh, there's a sheet over there. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I walk over, it's by the windows and they're all standing here. They're watching me go over this dusty musty old sheet and they're like, oh no, no, no,

wait. I start to put it on me because I'm shaking. This is 20 minutes after, 20 minutes after it's done, I'm shaking. And they're like, oh no, I think, and they point to the wall behind them, there's piss jars, and they're like, that's a piss blanket, and I had it right here, like getting ready to dry off,

and I just looked at them and said, fuck it, who cares? I got glass shards on my feet, and I start wiping myself off. Now I was like trying to get the white parts. Not the yellow brownish parts, but you're just so out of it. You don't care. You live like I'd be mortified doing that. Like, like when, when you feel a splash, a splash, a piss in a public bathroom, like

on your ankle, cause someone else's, their streams off, off you're disgusted you're like soaping your ankle up didn't give a fuck I was like just dry me off and I just walked around let me send you this video Joe and you can play it this is me this is like you want 30 minutes yeah I'm gonna send it right now this is 30 minutes after it's done and this is an instant, I'm still like delirious. I'm still delirious. This is an instant reaction. We can put this up on the screen and put it on mic four. It's coming through right now. So I, they said alright all right, well, we got it. We got, they wanted to order some lunch like for the guys, not for me and Tommy before you play this. I'll just come in contact. So just stop that for a sec, Steve. And then, um, so they're like, we're, we're going to

play this or, or, or, you know, we're, we're going to bring some lunch in. So we'll start back up in like a half hour. And I like alright I should go like piss or something or like take a walk so now we can put it on deep so I I go to the back door of the warehouse because we're on the top floor well I record just got halfway water boy not all the way they didn't dump you over and actually pour the water continuously into your face. But, halfway? Pretty fucking hard, not gonna lie. Once it was like in your mask and shit,

and you couldn't breathe, it was like, it's not just a helpless feeling, it's like, what the fuck? Like it simulates a drowning feeling, because you're breathing, every time you breathe in the water from the fabric on the mask is coming in near mouth so you feel like you're not getting oxygen so I'm just walking down like the fucking 12 stories of this goddamn warehouse that we rented out and I'm still shaking we've been on we've

been off for like 25 minutes but my body's still all wet. They had me in ice and then poured water and lay in it and they fucking poured it on me. It is a very, very nasty feeling. Not gonna lie. That's it. So, my hand, my voice is still shaking there. I don't know if you can tell. My hands, the video's going like this as I'm walking down the steps. Not just because of the steps, because my hands are shaking. I had to like end the video because I like this as I'm walking down the steps not just because of the steps because my hands are shaking I had to like end the video because I'm like I can't like try to stop my hand from shaking but you can see like it was a musty tight stairwell you know kind of warehouse and went down took a leak went back upstairs and like a half hour later they're like alright let's go and they put I can't even remember did they have us in

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they put us back in the hoods my hoods still wet like we like I rang it out I Rang out the hood as much as I could this was like It had been rung out a couple times, but this was a video we took shortly before rung out a couple times but this was a video we took shortly before the last round you play this one but I just took the Draves like hold on I'm gonna grab this on on count on like the iPhone but I took the I took the hood and was just like folding it up five times and ringing out what was left because we realized we didn't have extra hoods so they're like fuck you're gonna have to wear this one they come through yeah I

got it all right let's put it up this was 45 minutes after we were done one Why is it triggered though? I think you had two cameras go... I was like, oh, okay, here we go. I was wondering... Oh yeah, I forgot. He was putting a fan on us the whole time. So when we're laying in the ice, he started with Tommy, I saw that, and I'm like, that's brutal. He would take the fan and put it right up in his face. Or no, I'm sorry, like right behind him, so it's not drying off his mask but it cools his whole body

did the same thing to me and while I was getting waterboarded he had the mask in my face so now they're like all right put the hoods back on and put it on and we're like they're like we're gonna do stress positions now so they start on me they have Tommy zip tied to the chair and then they, I don't remember. Oh, he was asking me a spell July. And I, and we got disoriented again, like right away, at least I won't speak for Tommy. I did.

Because like once we went right back under, I still had the shakes. I hadn't fully dried off. I Keegan got there with a towel two minutes before we started and I dried off what I could in my pants. But now, um, I only have shorts on, that's it. I'm cold, I'm shaken. They put us under again and it wasn't like PTSD or anything like that. Like, I don't want to be dramatic, but you just immediately, because I had just seen like almost an hour of not being under that. And I hadn't even recovered. And you're just like, fuck, here we go again. And so, I don't even know how to...

I'm supposed to be talking to him now because I turned that on, and I don't have anything right to say. So he comes over, he's like, spell July, and I'm like, well maybe I should fuck with these people. So I spell out Y- And I did it perfectly. I was really proud of myself. I was like, Y-O-U-R-S-I-S-T-E-R-S-P-A-N-T-I-E-S.

Which is like your sister's panties. He let me spell out the whole thing, and he's like, I don't know what the fuck that was, but that's not it. And no one left. So they're like alright transit position so they put me down in transit with my hands zip tied and my feet zip tied to the sides of the chair and we both And Tommy stays in regular position and they're like alright you can sit there and so after like two minutes

They they leave and Tommy goes How you doing Julian? I'm like, I've been better Tom. And he's like, you know what's fucked up? They're here torturing us and these same assholes won't release the Epstein files. And I'm like, oh God, that cash Patel. We start going back and forth.

And like, I'm my, oh, here was the other thing. When they put me down in transit, I couldn't stop it. My legs were, I can't even re-simulate it. My legs were, were both completely shaking and my body was shaking because it was still, my internal temperature was off. And they're like, Oh, Andy would be like, Oh, I see that shaking mighty nice or something like that. But the position didn't really hurt.

My physical therapist, Anthony probably wouldn't be happy about the position But it was is the mic off It shouldn't be off now, it's back it's back on it's back on now. Yeah, when did it go off? No, your mics on mine been off. Oh I think I think when we were playing the videos, so that's right. Like I I could take that position for a while that was it's not you saw it on the video, but like, your hands are down here, and you are like this. Can you kind of see that on camera?

Kind of, yeah. I mean, you're bent over. He's bent over with his wrist at his ankles. Zip tied, and the zip ties are cutting up your ankles. Our ankles were getting cut up all day. Oh, when they first zip tied my hand at the beginning of the day, they zip tied, this was the one like not comfortable part when I was sitting there before they started hitting me, they zip tied this hand so tight and so my hand was, my other hand was basically holding it and it was fine

But I was like Jesus Christ like you couldn't loosen it up a little bit Yeah, and the Navy guy would come behind me and pull my fingers like that like Touch my fingers and like pull them out to feel them out like this and you would do it on both hands. Mm-hmm, and I'm like oh Fuck he's gonna break my fingers. Oh no, I didn't sign up for that. But he didn't, he was telling me later, at one point he actually had the, it was a nurse that came back there and did it because they were checking for blood flow.

He said, I actually stepped out for one minute and zip tied her hand exactly the way I had your zip tied so that she could feel it and let me know if it was okay. She was like, yeah, it's fine. That was the best. The one time the nurse got called in that we knew about, Tommy was like, it was when Tommy was on the ground, like that, struggling.

And I just, I just hear Andy saying, can we get a health check? And it's silence. And then you hear like, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, dip, to make jokes and some of it is funny and they're not laughing like they're literally not laughing and I'm like oh my god like even now they can't laugh so he comes over he asked me to spell July I spell fuck you and so he's like okay and he gets a little pissed and he's like you need seer position gentlemen cut his zip ties and then bring the security guards over. They grab me, whatever, and they leave Tommy there. They put me down in sear.

Now when they first go to do it, I'm like, this can't be so bad, right? The sear position is they take your hands, they zip tie them behind you, and they zip tie your feet completely together. So the insides of your ankles are touching together. And they put you on your knees. Or first, they almost, this was the one part of the day where they almost broke my ankle. He shoved me down onto the ground and had my leg like that and was like I almost thought my Achilles was gonna pop and then he made sure to lay out if this is

if these are your feet okay bottom of your feet top of your feet they lay out your feet on the top of your feet behind you you're kneeling and your hands are zip-tied back and they have you kneeling straight up and then Andy took me and pushed my body back So I'm basically like I Just got a cramp fucking redoing it Jesus Christ Thank God that didn't happen. I'm not gonna do it right now. My body won't even let me Get that water in there. Oh My god Has gotten insane cramp doing that what the fuck

Whoo? See it's like Traumatic stress on my body. I guess but they have you kneel like that and then Andy took me and shoved me straight back And there's a bone on the top of your foot. It's like an the external internal one. I the doctors are going to yell at me in the comments because I haven't googled this yet. I want to say it's the metatarsal bone. I it might be the bone that Joel Embiid broke early in his career that and Yao Ming had ended his career in the NBA. But it's like a bone that's hard to get to and it's on top

of your foot right there. Okay, like my fingers right there. And they take all the weight of your body on a hardwood floor and it goes right onto your foot. I still can't move my big toe. Nothing's broken. I can't move my big toe normally yet over here. It was the worst I Went like he when he pushed me back all the way to my body went on to it and I went Like it was bad and then I'm like

And then I'm like, ah! I'm like, ah! Ah! Ah! He's like, oh, it sucks, doesn't it? I'm like,

oh yeah! And it just kept going, and he would push me back, like, ah! And so Tommy's like up there, like, oh my God.

So then they bring Tommy, and I shouldn't be laughing, but after a while, like they're doing this to me, and he's like, Spell July, I'm like, fuck you. And then Andy leans down, and your abs are like out when you're doing this. And I've been bulking recently. Yeah, yeah. So he goes, he saves so fucking dark. He's like, ah, I see you. He's been working on your, it's almost like, Paul is like kinda gay, but he's like,

you've been working so hard on your body and everything, obviously it's holding you up right now. And he takes my skin and rolls it together. He goes, still got a fat roll there though, I think you gotta deal with it. And I just, I think we're in a hood when I'm doing this, I gotta see the footage, but I just turned him and and I'm laying back like in pain I just start laughing in this face like you get me on these zip ties

I'm gonna put your fucking head through that wall you curly-haired Sorry and So he keeps going keeps going and it just gets worse. And then I would find a position where it was bearable and like hold it there, but then they'd push me back. Like he'd pull me up and push me back on it. So then they bring Tommy down. Tommy gets down in the position.

I don't know how long he was holding it. Time's a tough thing to say, but then he's like, ah, get out! I don't know how long he was holding that times a tough thing to say but then he's like And then and then they get him back up and he just falls over and they're like get him up and And he and he gets he's like, uh-huh. Yeah And then I fall over and we saw this on camera right after it's hilarious Look, and you just look like a fish that like just died On the deck like there's no moat because you're totally zip-tied. You can't do anything They're like get him up so you get us both up and then they push Tommy again, and he's like

I'm telling you The minute he said that I'm like okay, okay, okay, just ask me, just ask me. And Andy comes, they're like, okay, get him up. And he goes, Julian, you haven't told us yet. Wow, how do you spell July? I'm like, J-U-L-Y. Thank God. I thought you were going to say August.

Because like, if he said August, I'm like, well, I'm going to have to hold out a little while longer. Yeah. If it's a nuke, but he gave me the same question. Or he might have even said, like, answer the question. Whatever it was, I had the out of J-U he's like okay get him up they take us back they interview us again and we're like really cooked after this but they're like all right there's one more and it's the worst one and like you really don't have to do it and i'm like and tommy i'm like like you really don't have to do it. And I'm like, and Tommy, I'm like,

he's like, doing it. I'm like, okay. So they take you, they're like no hoods on this one. So I think this was the one, the only one where we didn't have hoods. Now I remember. They're like, no hoods, we'll get a few reaction faces. There were two cement columns.

And they take you to the column, zip-tie with your hands behind your back, and they put your head on the column, and they make you to the column, zip-tie with your hands behind your back and they put your head on the column and they make you stand back. Pushing your feet back like this and your head, your all the weight of your body is again, like I still have red marks up there. Yeah, that hurts.

And I was like, he's like, oh, you can go back farther, Julien. We didn't do this one for long at all. This was like... Maybe I lasted 90 seconds and Tom lasted... Yeah, they just wanted to show you it exists. It sounds like... Tom lasted two minutes. But Andy's like,

you can go back farther, Julian. I'm like, oh, God! And he's like, come on, you know the safe word. They weren't asking us a question this time. They wanted us to say the safe word for the comedy because Tommy's safe word was muffin and mine was cupcake Like whatever the gayest possible safe word was is what we decided before the day to use Yeah, it's good for kind of I mean listen. We're content creators. You gotta make this entertaining So he's he's not asking me to spell July or for the capital

He's like, you know the word and or for the capital. He's like, you know the word. And I was like, Tom? He's like, yeah. I'm like, think I'm gonna give this one a go. Yeah. I'm like, cupcake. And they're like, okay, get them off. And then I turn around, I see Tom in it. And he lasted. Like, and it's, the sear position is the worst dramatic pain. This position, I don't even know what it's called, is the worst onset pain because it just gets progressively worse. It never, there's never a moment where you can find a comfortable spot, or not comfortable, but something slightly more comfortable and like ride it out, which was hard to do with sear, but you could do it a little bit.

You can't do that with this. And so I was looking at him like, well, and I see Tommy, they have his feet back way farther than mine had gotten, I think. And Tommy's in shape, man. Like he's almost 0% body fat, like just a fucking wrestler's wrestler, and I see his neck contorted I'm like oh he can last I said to him, and it's on camera. I was like he's a wrestler

He did this is this is right up his arm. This is this is some he can last on he lasted another Probably they moved his feet back probably another 30 seconds something like that, and he's like okay muffin And we're like like dabbed up. We're like all right. We're done his feet back probably another 30 seconds or something like that and he's like okay muffin and we're like like dabbed up we're like all right we're done fucking great let's go i think we got one quick post game and then there were interviews and tommy huge shout out to tommy he it this isn't like a podcast this is more like a 60 minutes kind of thing you come with your game plan ready because you want that you're getting a documentary You want to ask very specific things and then as the experience has happened you add in some things and adjust so Tommy Took like five minutes went through everything I prepared added in a couple things we set up

Makeshift studio right there Look, it actually looked really sick. I want to roll some of this footage for you. I took some footage from behind. Let me see what I got here. So it looked like this. I'll send you this first. Put that up. And the footage looked like this. So the lighting lighting just shout out to the whole crew the way they did look at the natural lighting right there Yeah, like how good that that's the windows of the steps

So on the other side of the camera in the opposite direction that you can't see is where the elevator shaft is and on the Other side is the windows. Mm-hmm. I'll send you the windows video to I'll send you the Windows video too. This is what the windows were like. Let's actually, I just sent you that other video I think that came through. But let's look at the Windows video first that should be coming through right now. So when we went back to do the interviews, they were at this window. This doesn't need audio.

The second one one I'll put audio on it but you can see like there are these cracked out see the tread the railroad tracks right there and then the the river is right there it's like people's boats and shit parked it was aesthetically incredible and then the second video right here this this was Tommy interviewing Andy. I don't think I've listened to this audio. Let's see what we can get here on this. But I was filming right behind him.

They had like three angles on him. Got it? Experience using enhanced interrogation tactics. I can't speak directly about my experience with enhanced interrogation tactics because much of that work remains classified based off of operational needs of the service. I can't speak directly about my experience with enhanced interrogation tactics because much of that work remains classified based off of operational needs of the service. What I can say is that after experiencing it, after witnessing it first hand, after

seeing some of the intelligence that came out of the other side, I have strong opinions against the use of enhanced interrogation tactics. In large part because they are so shocking, they are so damaging, they are so difficult physiologically that they don't yield consistent results. What was the longest period of time that you saw some interrogation for? My first-hand observations of interrogation were generally short. 15 to 30 minutes of time. 15 to 30 minutes before drugs for six hours after the intradation actually occurred with our chance to review footage of the intradation to see if any significant intelligence was there

yeah it was set up great and so he finished that and then Tommy's like alright I'm gonna go set up a new studio over here to interview Trevor, Navy dive team guy, for a while. So that's when Andy and I took a walk to the market and grabbed a coffee and then walked. And like, you know, Andy walks into the market and goes, wow this place is amazing, walks up and says, yes I'll have a lemon smoothie please. I'm like, bet you were just like, getting a lemon smoothie after like torturing us for six hours? He's beat my ass. We're just getting a lemon smoothie after like torturing us for six hours. Like, Jesus Christ.

So anyway, we walked back and then Tommy and I each do that individually as well, like a wrap up, whatever. And then it was done and we went back to Tommy's house. The whole team came over and we had a nice dinner. And shout out to Tommy for hosting us for the two days out there too. And his wife as well, Sarah, she's awesome. So, you know, that was nice and having dinner afterwards and kind of going through it and recapping it. But it was no joke, man.

And yeah. Shout out to Andy and Trevor for making it realistic. Shout out to the whole crew for making it realistic and not breaking character. And shout out to Tommy for putting this together and like actually agreeing to do it. I got shout out to myself for doing it with him. But it was a wild experience. I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as time goes on, it's pretty fresh right now, but definitely not something you want to put your body through, but something that it's cool to be able to say, I have. And I can

at least speak to some, like I sent some of the stills to John Kiriakou, he's like, oh God, good on you, so you understand now how John Kiriakou, he's like, oh god, good on you, so you understand now how fucked up this is. And I'm like, we might need to talk about this, John. This shit might work a little bit. He's gonna have a heart attack if he's saying that. But I don't know, I'm still percolating on that. I still, and I think I said this, I'm like, I don't think the United States should do

stuff like this. But I also can't say that it... I'm wondering if you can say it completely doesn't work. I don't know that you can say that. So... I don't know. Did I miss anything? No. I think... I don't even have to watch it. I just got it. Alright, well we're putting it out, I don't know when people are seeing this, I'm going to put this out on Patreon, then I may put this out a week later on the main channel. As like an episode, maybe we'll do that as a promo the day after it comes out.

But if you're seeing this on Patreon, the documentary is going to be coming out on Tommy G's YouTube channel. Tommy G's obviously been on my show three times, really good friend of mine, and his channel's incredible. It's coming out on Tommy G's YouTube channel in two weeks, and I think it's coming out on June 25th, they're aiming for. And if you are watching this after June 25th, that means it's probably out, and maybe the link is in the description here hopefully it is but Wild experience and would love to get you guys thoughts I said to Tommy when I was on the phone with him I said Tommy there's only one of two ways this goes

either you and I get a little bit of Street Club as a youtuber which is very low bar Or the entire comment section and internet says that we're pussies and they could have lasted way longer. Yeah, yeah. Because they have no fucking idea what's going on. Because like, the cameras cannot do justice to all the little things you feel. Like, I was seeing some of the camera work, some of the stuff I did where they did an

amazing job getting closer up than I thought. Like these guys clearly did an incredible job. I haven't looked at all the roles yet. But like, it can't mimic how you feel when your head is turned and you're underneath the actual mask and you see how little air is coming in. Like you can't get that. Yeah, you can't do breathing. It can't see the difference between sitting like this versus just sitting like that. You know, it can't get all that. But we'll see what it does get and I'm sure people will talk shit and that's fine.

Like, I knew that going in. People were, people are gonna say what they say. That's just the way the internet works, so not too worried about that. But, hope you guys enjoyed this, and for all my Patreon people, thank you as always for being here, for enjoying The Great Society Show. As always, that is what Joe Deaf and I now do, after Alessi is now in Florida working with us instead of here so Joe and I are on the board doing it but To everyone else who might be watching this afterwards. I hope you enjoyed and go check out the documentary link in description below Thank you guys for watching the episode if you haven't already Please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video

They're both a huge huge help and if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X those links are in my description below