Julian Dorey Podcast - #323 - British Kingmaker on Elon Musk, Re-Creating Socrates, Steve Jobs & AI | Carl Barney

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Carl Barney is a libertarian philanthropist and former owner of a network of for-profit colleges across the United States. A vocal advocate of Ayn Rand’s Objectivism, he has donated millions to promote individual rights, free-market principles, and philosophical education through institutions like the Ayn Rand Institute and the Prometheus Foundation. PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CARL's LINKS - IG: https://www.instagram.com/thecarlbarney/?hl=en - WEBSITE: carlbarney.com - BOOK: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Experiment-Revolutionary-Way-Increase/dp/B0DQ9MTKKD FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 – Abbey Road, Ghosts, XPrize, De-Aging, 120 Years, Sleep, Post-WWII England 11:11 – Siblings, Struggle, Dream at 17, Backpacking, Kindness, India, Sri Lanka 17:42 – Family Distance, Travel Wisdom, Curiosity, Bulgaria, Turkey 1959, India 1960, Education 30:31 – Churchill, Australia, Outback Job, America 1964, Energy, Self-Discovery, Late Calling 40:02 – Age 23–39, Soul, Passion Money, Life Design, Sky Not Falling, Wealth ≠ Joy 52:18 – Accidental Wealth, Zen, Education, Gratitude, Ayn Rand, Values, Purpose 59:02 – Management, Career Schools, No Fluff, 1985, $1M Debt, 100 Campuses, Factory Floor 01:09:15 – Higher Ed Crisis, Socialism, Political Drift, Foreign Influence 01:19:16 – Populism, Disenfranchised, Student Debt, Government Mistakes, AI Professors 01:35:20 – AI Brains, “Playing God?”, Human AI, Global Tuition, 24/7 Learning 01:46:23 – Online U, No Fluff, Avatar Debates, Critical Thinking, Reason, Objectivity, Truth 01:56:02 – Non-Profit Model, Gov Pressure, Self-Funded, Happiness 02:06:29 – Baseline Joy, Steve Jobs, Engine Failure, PreQuest, Legacy Gifts 02:16:11 – Near Death, System Issues, Habits, Read. Think. PLAN. 02:26:17 – Elon Musk, Idealism vs Reality CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 323 - Carl Barney Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I needed to find a purpose that would satisfy my soul. So Steve Jobs, about 40 years ago, was talking about... And so my hope is, someday, we can capture the underlying world view of that Aristotle in a computer. And ask him a question and get an answer. And he thought, sometime in the future, we'll be able to do that. And now, Steve Jobs' dream is now possible. I'm creating these habitats from Socrates. Then you go to Plato, and then you go to Aristotle.

You will learn literature from the great Shakespeare. You go from one professor to another. The same with economics, the same with history, the same with finance. It's all AI. But believe me, I had conversations with Socrates, and it was like I was talking to him. Can we pull this up?

Yeah. Let's get a mic on Socrates here with us to say you want the free market to exist you want capitalism to run the system but like we see Trump and Elon Musk fighting it out in public do you think that hey guys if you're not following me on Spotify please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. What were you doing at Abbey Road? I was visiting and it was a fascinating tour. And you were touring the whole studio. I was on a trip with Peter Diamandis, his ex-prize.

He goes on these adventure trips. So we went to England. We toured Oxford and Cambridge and London. And part of the tour was the Abbey Road Studios. And it is a fascinating place. Steeped in history. Oh, yeah. Incredible electronics and they told the stories. When the Beatles did this and the Beatles did that,

and this performer and that performer. We were there for a couple of hours. It was just fabulous. I loved it. Did you feel anything when you were in there, like the artistry coming off the walls around you at all? It's interesting that you say it should say that because now that you say it, yes. You know, at the time I thought, you know,

something really magical about this place, but excuse me, it was, you got a lot of the sense of the history and the feeling of the excitement Particularly we had a great tour guide if you've got a good tour guide makes so much difference And they had two of these through or the different studios And they told us the history of this and they actually created music with these magic massive tables where they call these things, these big things where they... The boards? The mixer boards? The mixer boards, yeah. They have these giant...

I got a little one right here. Yeah, well, that's a big one. He's like, fuck that. Yeah, right there. Anyhow, they actually made some music while we were there. They had a band in the back there. We were treated really nicely there. It was wonderful. So you do adventure trips with Peter,

how do you say his last name again? Peter Diamandis. Diamandis. Yeah, he's the founder of Xprize, also A360, but that's another organization. But Xprize is where he creates these fabulous prizes for all kinds of different things. And then if you're a big enough contributor,

which I am, I pay him a lot of money, you go on these adventure trips each year. And last year we went to Panama, this year we went to England and these tours, and you get to know what's happening in technology and so forth. But this X Prize is really fantastic. And he wants to solve a massive problem in the world,

like longevity, how he can help people live. X Prize, saying X prize X says, you know X as in and you know X the letter as in Elon Musk right space X. Yeah, which we still call Twitter, you know, he's calling it X I still call it Twitter. You do anyhow, so It's he has this ex-price fund longevity He wants to reverse aging or hold aging for another 10 or 20 years And he has teams all over the world working on this right now, so they're competing for a hundred and one million dollars So if you come up with something where you can hold aging and there's a lot of people working on this stuff All over the world. I think he's got 150 teams working on it.

And the one that comes forward, and he's got it very well measured. So you've got to meet these metrics. If you meet these metrics, you get $101 million. What kind of metrics? I mean, other than we want people to live to this average age or something, like how do they measure that?

He has body systems, like the nervous system, the musculature and these things. I know you'd have to be a doctor to figure out, but he has them specifically identified and you have to demonstrate that you're holding aging 10, 15 years, 20 years, and putting it all together, you can live an extra 10, 20 years, which is what the big thing today.

I'm on that program. I plan to live until I'm 120. Oh, you've already planned it out. Oh yeah, 20 years, which is the big thing today. I'm on that program. I plan to live until I'm 120. Oh, you've already planned it out. Oh yeah, I got that, yeah. You got it down to like the day on a calendar. I know what I gotta do. What do you gotta do?

It's pretty simple, straightforward. You know what the best thing you can do? And you know it already, everybody knows it. It's taking care of your health. 100%. You're gonna die. And how do you take care of your health? It's the simplest thing in the world.

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You built. Yeah, I'm impressed. Yeah, she'll tell you I have muscles. And sitting here with Julie, just so you know. Hey, Julie, say hi to your family back home. We're there in the studio. We got Lauren in the studio as well. We got a packed studio today.

I like it. Yeah, we got a crowd here. We got an audience. So yeah, I'm doing that. Now, that's one thing. You've got to do what it takes if you want to maintain your health. The other thing you need to do is to sleep. Oh yeah. Get in seven or eight hours. For years and years, I lived on four hours a night. Bad,

bad, bad thing to do that. So now I work to get seven hours every night. And the other thing is don't eat crap. Don't eat garbage, don't drink stuff, you know, bad stuff, don't take drugs. And you've got a chance to live to 120. Now I've asked my doctors if they put it in writing, but they won't guarantee it. Yeah, it's not, products don't come with guarantee, but everything you're saying, like at a high level,

it's really common sense, but most of us, we get stuck in the day-to-day part of life and a lot of people won't focus on those things. I had some health problems while I was building this podcast and I'd always been a gym six days a week guy, eating well, intermittent fast, the whole bit. Stayed in intermittent fast, but everything else went to shit. And it is unbelievable what happened to my body before I started getting treatment, like how bad it got.

And then once I turned back on to my yo, I'm in the gym every morning at 6 48 a.m. We're getting this 90 to 100 minutes in and getting back in shape and eating square meals with natural stuff. It is crazy how much my brain, performance, body function, everything just went through the roof again. And you feel better and you're happier, right?

Oh my God, leaps and bounds. That's one of the, if there's a secret to happiness, it's not so much a big thing, it's obvious. Maintain your health. Yeah. It's easy to do. Well, it's not easy, but you gotta do it. You said you were sleeping for like four hours a night,

though, for a lot of years. Was that just because you thought hustle culture was, you'll sleep when you're dead, or what was the thought process there? Just that, just because you thought hustle culture was you'll sleep when you're dead or what was the thought process there? Just that. Just stupid. You know, I got things to do. I'm busy.

Got to run the business. So you know, it's this bad habit. Well it's great to have a chance to talk with you in here because we'll get into this today but you wrote a book recently called The Happiness Experiment and I was telling you a lot of people who write about the philosophy of happiness and things like that, not many of them are billionaires. It's nice to have another spin on it from a guy who's one of the Illuminati running the world, if you will.

We'll get into that whole background and everything. Has anyone ever told you you have a very unique accent? Yeah, sort of. So people come, they say, you know, where are you from? Right. Which is what they're saying, why do you speak so weird, you know? It's not weird, it's unique.

There's a difference. Well, it's, I was born, raised, went to school in England. So I've got the, you know, English accent. But it's kind of gone. I know, but then I spent five years in Australia. So g'day mate. You know, why be fair dinkum? Don't do that again.

Let's say what you had. That was better. So I was in Australia, and now I've been in America for over 50 years. So I'm a combination of English, Australian, and American. How old were you when you came to, well, when you left England? I left England when I was 18, and went and American. How old were you when you came to... Well, when you left England? I left England when I was 18, and went to Australia.

There's a story there. I went there five years. Came to the United States, been here for quite a while. Planning to stay if they'll let me. You know, I'm a legal alien. Right now you can stay, apparently. Just looking at your donation history. Right now you're good. We'll check with you in 28.

I pay a lot of taxes. That's right. Yeah, so I'm good to keep. Yeah, I heard there's pretty high levels out there in California. Pretty high, about 60%. Yeah, but you stay. And I'd like to increase it, yeah. Yeah, okay.

So growing up in England though, what was your life like? What was your family like? Were your parents in business? Because obviously you have this insane passion for building things. So where did that come from? Well, um, England was pretty tough when I was a kid. When I was a child in England, it was right after the war. England had been devastated.

Physically devastated, emotionally. Economically, it was in ruins. I mean, it was really tough after the war. You know, you say tough after the war. You know you say England won the war except the Americans say they did. You know it was always something. I always say we all did.

I mean, you know. That's the more honest statement. Yeah, it couldn't have done it without America and America couldn't have done it without that. So, excuse me. So, you know you say we won the war. No we didn't. And somebody said, there's a movie says

nobody wins a fight. And nobody won the war. No, we didn't. And somebody said, there's a movie says, nobody wins a fight. And nobody wins a war. Some people lose less. That's what it amounts to. And England had lost everything. I mean, the place was in rubble. Everybody knew somebody that had,

you know, they lost a son, a daughter, a father, somebody, a house had gone. It was pretty, pretty, pretty. So I was leveraged in those bleak times. Now I didn't know about that. I thought, well, that's life, you know? And there was a struggle to endure, to survive, to rebuild, you know,

to get life back again. And I contrast that with the American spirit, you know? The Americans say life is to be enjoyed, you know? It's great looking for opportunities. But in England at that time we were solving problems. And that's what we had to do. We had to rebuild. So that was my childhood.

And I went to school there. Pretty good student. I was top of the class. Pretty smart. Top of the class, I mean that's pretty damn good. Yeah, but it wasn't Oxford or Cambridge University. But it was an education. I was a pretty smart kid, I suppose.

Did your parents really push you in school, or was that from within? No, no. I had five siblings, there were six of us. Oh, wow. And my parents really didn't have very much time for them. I mean, they were concerned with surviving and living and making money. We were poor, not dirt poor,

we didn't have a lot of money, so they worked and struggled. But at that time, you know, Americans, you take things for granted. That's the problem. Oh, we do, yeah. That's the problem. You guys don't know how good you've had it. I agree.

You should have gone through England in the 1940s. Everything was struggle, everything was serious. You didn't have time for victims, because everybody was a victim. You couldn't be a victim in England, because you'd just be one of them. And nobody played on that. They just toughened you up, and you realized that you needed a job to get done,

and you did your job, and you worked, and you did it. So, that was my upbringing. Now, I never experienced any great joy or love in my life at that time, but I didn't know the difference. I mean, didn't, so I just got along, went to school, and then after a while I decided I would wander around the world. So there wasn't, did you have dreams though? Like did you have things you're like, I want to do that, even if it wasn't completely specific, but like a ballpark area? Well, a real dream as a formulated dream

occurred when I was 17. You want to hear that story? That's why you're here, Carl. That's why I'm here. Why didn't you tell me? Okay, so, oh, okay. So I was 17 years old and I read in the newspaper that two guys, Roger Holden and Michael Black,

somebody like that, were planning to drive a car from London to Australia, from London to Australia. And they were looking for two others to go with them. So that night in the cafe with my friends, I said, hey guys, there's these two guys that are planning to drive a car to Australia. Isn't that exciting? I thought this was really cool, I said, hey guys, there's these two guys that are planning to drive a car to Australia. Isn't that exciting? I thought this was really cool and they said, what?

Are you, they're not gonna be able to do that, there's no roads, there's no gas, and what about if the car breaks down? I argued for about half an hour with them and I said, it's possible. They said, no, no, no, it'll never work, the car will break down, you'll die, it's gonna be horrible.

And I said, no, no, we're gonna be able to. The car will break down, you'll die. It's gonna be horrible. And I said, no, no, we're gonna be able to do it. And then after half an hour, I lost the argument. You lost the argument. I lost the argument. And so I said, I'm gonna call them and I'm gonna go with them. You know, that was sort of obstinacy. I'm an obstinate guy sometimes.

So I called them and I went down and visited with them and said, hey, I'd like to come. And they said, cool. And they invited me and they got another, so it was four of us, we sent four kids. Oh, you went? Well, you literally went. Well, there's more to the story.

Yeah, okay. So yeah, so I didn't happen that way, but I did go. That's how I got to Australia. I told you, I was in Australia for five years. I know, I didn't know you drove to Australia from fucking England. I mean, my God.

I didn't drive, I walked. Hitchhiked, backpacked. You didn't walk. drove to Australia from fucking England. I mean my god. I didn't drive I walked hitchhiked Backpacked you did so too. I did so too. I believe it. I mean you're in shape, but hey, you know that would be Then I was a lot better shape. So I met with these guys and learned fabulous lessons We every weekend we got maps. There was no internet no phones there. Nobody had phones even in their homes. Couldn't you imagine that? No. No phones in any homes. So very few people had phones and maps and no internet. So we got maps and we got,

we didn't even know what a passport was, a visa, what's a visa. Yeah, how do you even do this? I don't know. It's like we asked people and we called people and we went to the library and we got maps and went to the bookstore and bought maps and we poured over the maps and every weekend we figured out all these things,

asked all these kind of questions, and then we made a plan and we were all gonna go to Australia, but you wanna hear the rest of the story? Paul Harvey? The rest of the story. We're getting ready to go, right? We've done all of this work for months and months and months. We're already go.

By this time I think I'm 18. Started around 17, now I'm 18. And one of the guys said, look guys, he said, I'm awful sorry, my mother's ill. She's poorly, as they say in England, she's poorly, she's ill, and I just can't leave her, so I'm sorry, I can't come. I'm not coming. Then another guy I looked across and he said,

well, since you've brought it up, I've got to tell you, my girlfriend and I, we got serious, we're getting married, so I can't come either. And then the other guy looked at me and he says, well, Carl, two of us, that's not enough, so it's off. Oh, I would have been so pissed. And then the other guy looked at me and he says, well, Carl, two of us, that's not enough, so it's off. Oh, I would have been so pissed. I was crushed.

I was disappointed. I wasn't pissed. It was like, there's nothing to get mad at. It's like, it happens. So my heart just splattered all over the floor. And I said, you know, this is really awful. My dream to go to Australia, you know, all of this planning, you talk about a dream.

I mean, it was not only a dream, but it was being fleshed out. It was, you know, the map, the countries that we were gonna go through and all of that. You were seeing it before doing it. I was seeing it before, and the dream was totally, totally wiped out. I was crushed.

But you still ended up in Australia. That's the rest of the rest of the story. Okay. So I sat there, I don't know for how long, it seemed like I sat there for five minutes, just with my eyes closed, with a sinking feeling, sad. It was mostly sadness and something like that. And I just sat there shaking my head

and I said, well, I looked up and I looked up and I said, well, I'll go by myself. And they said, what do you mean? I said, I'll go by myself. They said, well, you can't do that. How are you gonna do that? You can't drive a car. I said, I'll walk.

Oh, you didn't have a license even? Well, no, at that time, we didn't got to that point. It wasn't a matter of a license, nobody was gonna come. And I wasn't gonna drive the car, I wasn't gonna try to do it alone. I said, well, I'll walk. And they said, well, how are you gonna walk? I said, well, I'll backpack, I'll hitchhike,

I'll do whatever I have to do, but I'm going to Australia. And they said, well, good luck to you. What did your parents think of all this? I didn't ask them, didn't tell them about it. You didn't tell them about any of the planning? No, no, no. I told them the day I was leaving, I said, I'm off, where are you going, son?

I said, I'm going to Australia. Oh, good luck. Good luck, I got all my stuff. You know, this is England in 1940s, 1950s by now. They didn't care about that stuff. You didn't tell any of your siblings either? No. You just left everyone in the dark.

Well, no, I just did my thing. They were doing their thing. That's how it was in England at that time. We're not a very close family. So then I went off and I started planning. I'd already done a lot. I got a passport, got some visas and stuff and all that. And so I went off to Australia over land.

Went through, went through France, came down France, crossed to Italy, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Turkey, crossed Turkey to Iran, crossed Iran down to Pakistan, India. You're getting a geography lesson here. Oh yeah, I can see it. Yeah, right, and then down to the south cross Iran, down to Pakistan, India. You're getting a geography lesson here. Oh yeah. I can see it. Yeah, right, and then down to the south of India, cross to Ceylon, which is now called Sri Lanka,

and then I took a ship from Sri Lanka to Perth, Australia, and ended up in Australia for five years. Wow. How long did that take all in? About five months, five or six months. And it cost me, I had 89 pounds when I started, 89 English pounds, which is about $120 at that point, which is a lot of money in those days.

I mean, it doesn't sell much. And it wasn't that much. For five months of travel though, you would think, obviously it's a lot more back then, but you would think that's not enough. It wasn't enough, because I ran out of money when I got to Salon. Yeah.

So I was stranded there. You were stranded, no. You were stranded alone at age 18 in a foreign place? What's that like? Fun. It was interesting. It's not the word I was thinking of. Yeah, and you know, people, you know, people were so, so, so generous, so kind.

It's unbelievable, you know. And when in Asia, you know, it's a kid of 18, and you know, friendly, and people were friendly back. They were kind. They'd let me stay at their home. They'd take me out and feed me. They'd do all kinds of things, you know. There's just a very, very generous and kind in India.

I love India. It's a great country. And so, Ceylon, which is, you know, sort of in India, right off the tip of India. And yeah, it was good. It's great. It's not like you can call in like an Apple Pay or something back then when you run out of money.

I'm just thinking about how lost you are. Think an Apple Pay, yeah. That's nuts. But it's interesting to me that you say like your family wasn't close. It's rare I hear something like that when there's like six siblings or something. I've heard that with one sibling or whatever,

parents might have been out working, but why do you think that was? Do you guys just kind of all did your own thing? Yeah, my parents were busy. They were doing their thing. What did they do? Dad was an entrepreneur and mother supported the family and she supported him doing an entrepreneur.

He opened up a gas station. He had a car rental company He was an entrepreneur, and mother supported the family, and she supported him doing an entrepreneur. He opened up a gas station, he had a car rental company, and a hotel and a motel, you know, he did a little of this, made some money, spent it all, and my mother had put some money away, so he had some money to start a new business. So he was an entrepreneur, He had a nightclub. Oh, a nightclub too.

He managed a nightclub, created a nightclub. Yeah. So he was an entrepreneur kind of guy. And I guess some of that rubbed off on me, self-reliance, dream about something, think about it, plan, and get it done. It's a simple formula. Yeah. and get it done. It's a simple formula. And you know that's one of the biggest lessons I learned, Julian, when I was 17, I learned about planning, you know, asking questions, thinking, what do we do here, how do we do that, what if the car breaks down,

what supplies will we need, what if somebody gets sick, how are we gonna get from here to there, what about this, what about that? We knew nothing, we were just kids. And of course you had to go to library, bookstores and ask people about stuff and we found all those things. But what I learned there was the thinking process,

asking questions, finding answers, another question, finding an answer, another question, getting an answer. So that was the thinking part of it. And then planning, okay, so this is what I'm gonna do first, then we'll do this. And if this happens, we'll do that. So it was a natural process that I learned at 17 that's lasted me for the rest of my life, because thinking and planning is the secret of success, the secret of happiness. I think there's also the second layer to this is that clearly you have a The most obvious point I could remake here

But you have you have an adventure gene and you you have something that says I want to go do something special And that's where like some of that happiness you've been chasing in your life and getting to seems to come from that You think that's fair to say I? Think that's fair to say? I think that's fair to say. Curiosity, wanting to find out. I wanted to know stuff. I wanted to see the world, wanted to find out. I think curiosity was a basic.

And I think that's the basis of when you're gonna be in, go on adventures and travel. You wanna know about other countries, know about other peoples. And so yeah, that was there. I didn't articulate, but the biggest thing I wanted to do was find out about me. Find yourself.

Find myself. What I wanted to do with my life, because I was a confused teenager, pretty dumb, candidly I think so. When I look back, I think I'll cry. I was pretty stupid, clueless. So, you know, I'm trying to figure things out. I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

I wanted to figure out me. I wanted to figure out other people. You know, all those questions that teenagers ask. So I had those questions I thought traveling would help me do them. Obviously, India was a place that really rubbed off on you, but, you know, over this five months, are you spending, I imagine, a couple weeks at a time, basically, just doing math in each country there? No, some countries I went through pretty fast.

Like in Bulgaria, which was totally, totally totalitarian, communist, oppressive. I mean, we were traveling through Bulgaria. We couldn't wait to get out. Hitchhiking, totally,, we were hitchhiking totally. Or walking, hitchhiking. Every few miles, these soldiers would come out from each side of the road, stop the car,

and search us and search the car. They'd let us go, and another, you know, a few dozen miles up the road, the same thing would happen. But it was dark and oppressive, and when we'd ask someone, you know, because every night we had this different place, a thousand miles up the road, the same thing would happen. But it was dark and oppressive. And when we'd ask someone, you know, because every night we had this different place,

we'd have to speak to somebody and say, you know, is there a youth hostel? That was the first thing. If there wasn't a youth hostel, you know, we're looking for some place to stay. Some people invite us to come home with them, but not in Bulgaria. Now in Bulgaria, when they were talking to you,

they were constantly looking over their shoulder because talking to a foreigner, that could be a death sentence. So a very creepy country, very creepy. So Bulgaria, we highlight, we went right through there fast. But some countries like Turkey, loved Turkey. When we got between- What was it about Turkey? Yeah.

Well, we left Bulgaria and we're going through into the Turkish customs. One was oppressive, resentful, nasty. And when we got through to the customs in Turkey, it was like party time. They say, hey guys, where you from? Where you going? What are you doing?

What's going on? In Turkey. In Turkey. I just had a dude sitting there, my buddy Eric, he's been banned from Turkey twice. Yeah, now, yeah, but this is 1950, this is 1959, almost 1960, and Turkey was still under the Shah. Right.

That's Iran, pardon me, but it was still pretty open, and the Turks were really friendly. Oh, they had waited one more time in Turkey. But you're right, in some places, I stayed like six weeks in India. Loved India. You know, the Indians were very, very gracious, very hospitable. And so I stayed there for a while.

But when you're stay... It's also a huge country. So when you're staying there and you say you're there for six weeks, you're constantly moving across the country, obviously. Yeah, constantly moving, but like I stayed, I stayed probably three or four weeks in Calcutta. I had a wonderful time in Calcutta. I had a wonderful time in Calcutta. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty sad place.

Very, very poor. Millions of people living on the streets. What year are we in? 1960 now, because I was in- You were 18 in 1960? Yeah. How old? Don't do the calculations.

You're like 83? No, you're looking great I'm gonna put that on air. That's a huge compliment. I'm 53 Everybody that's a lie bro. I thought you were like 65. That's impressive. Yeah. All right, you're forgiven 65. Yeah Yeah, you're looking good. Thanks, dude. All right, so you look pretty good, too. Thank you that working out is working Thank you. Yeah, I'm 15. But, Calcutta, very, very poor place. This is for a lot of people out there, it's ringing a bell.

This is where like Mother Teresa was from, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, and she was obviously spending her life serving the poor. But, you know, I would imagine I had a pretty profound effect on you to see the depths of what human sorrow can look like. Well, you know, it was just something I was absorbing. There was millions of people literally living on the sidewalk. I mean, that's everything they had. They had these, you know, tin

cups and pots and some sort of blankets if they had anything. Just that was it. That's where they lived on the streets begging. And also, there were certain parts of there where there were simply dead people lying in the street. You know, we were adventurous. I was adventurous. I walked around places and walked down this one street and lo and behold, there was a couple of dead people laying on the street, just there. Just just lying there with flies on them.

And nobody seemed to be very concerned about it. It was a hard, hard time. You're 1960, Calcutta was terribly, terribly poor. Or actually, it was a lot of very rich people and a lot of desperately poor people. Wealth gap, if you will. Oh, huge gap, yeah, yeah. You hadn't seen any, I mean, obviously,

there was nothing like that in England. You mentioned, and you grew up in the post-war years, so it's like everything had to be rebuilt. There was some desolation for sure, but it's not like you had that up close, up front view on death all the time. You kind of missed that with the war, right? Yeah, yeah, I missed it.

I was too young to know about that, thankfully. But in India, I got to see poverty, poverty. I mean, this is, Americans don't know what poverty is. Compared to that, yeah. Compared to that. I mean, this is totally abject. How much income? Zero.

How much food? Zero. Where's the next meal coming from? No idea. And it was begging. They lived by begging. Or the generosity of some charity. It was... And they just lived on the streets.

Millions of people. This is not a few... I mean, San Francisco, you hear about the poverty in New York, and the homelessness in New York, which is still devastating. I don't want to minimize that, because it's very serious. It's already loose there. But compared to this millions, literally millions of people, now it's not the case anymore, I understand. I haven't been back there for a while.

But that's gotta be, I mean, you're 18 years old, it's gotta be pretty traumatic to witness that, especially when you're witnessing it across a lot of children too. There's something about that that, you know, not the downplay when you see it with adults, but it's on a whole nother level when you see kids starving. Yeah, I agree. It gets to you. But fortunately, things have improved enormously. Now, that's

a long time ago, 1960, what's that, 80 years ago? Almost 80, no 70 years ago. 65. 65. You're dating yourself. Yeah, you're getting better arithmetic than I am, since 1965, yeah. It's a long time ago, India now is a whole different country. Per first start, they've doubled their population

in that 65 years. And so the poverty is still there, but it's nowhere near as bad as that. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of tech going on there and more first world type things now too, which has created opportunities. A lot of spam calls as well. I don't know if you get those, but.

Call centers and coders. That's right. They put India on the map. That's right. They're very smart people, the Indians, you know? Oh yeah. Very smart people. Yes.

I don't know any dumb Indians. Everyone I've dealt with, they're up there on the IQ scale. Yeah, they had a very good schooling system there. Interestingly enough, a lot of it was introduced by the British. When they took over India, they established great schools. So that's one thing that's a nice little roll off of Britain,

because I know that's like a sore subject, because Britain ruled over them for a long time. They did. And yeah, and that wasn't nice. That wasn't cool. But they did leave some bad. The railroads, roads, and schools, they put those into India,

and they still benefit from those things. Wasn't Churchill like really pissed that they gave up India? He was. Yeah, that was like his project. those into India and they still benefit from those things. Wasn't Churchill like really pissed that they gave up India? He was. Yeah, that was like his project or something. He loved India, he wanted to keep it. And he was behind the times.

Yes, yeah. Didn't work for him. Nobody's perfect, nobody's perfect, but you know. I know that was a sore subject for him. But so you do this, you end up in Australia at 18. Now you've totally, you've left your life behind, but when you get there, had the plan initially been like, all right, I'll get to Australia

and then fly home or something? Or what was the deal? Well, the next deal is, okay, live in Australia and learn about Australia and go to the next step. And so when I arrived in Australia, I totally broke, which, you know, if you broke, what I thought, well, I gotta make some money. So if I'm gonna eat, I have to get money.

And if I have to get money, I have to work. And it was that simple. That was the simple equation. There was no welfare, no government benefits, no handouts, no charities. Didn't even occur to me. And I met a friend there who met me when I got off the boat. And I said, you know, I need a job.

He said, there are no jobs in Perth, Australia. I said, what do you mean? He said, I've been down by the employment office every day. They've got nothing there. And I said, well, let's go back there and tell them we're desperate. We've got to get some money, otherwise we don't have anything to eat.

So Australia was on hard times then? No, no, just full employment. There was no jobs. Everybody was working. They didn't have any spare, there was no unemployment for us. And so they said, well, if you really want a job, they said, we got to have a job,

otherwise we're not gonna eat. And then they said, well, there's this guy, he's got a farm several hundred miles in the outback, that if you're looking for that, he wants somebody out there to clear, cut down trees and clear land. He said, we'll take it, whatever is there. So we got on, they gave us some train tickets

and we took off to the middle of the outback and got off the train, the farmer was there, took us home and crabby old guy. Boy, he was a mean guy. You know, he didn't like us at all, and we certainly didn't like him. Is it because you were British, you think? I think part of it, yeah. Yeah.

We were what they call palmers. They don't like English people. Right. Well, they do, but they pretend not to. Yeah, I've heard they don't. Yeah, that's right. So anyhow, he said, all right, come over here. He said, make yourself at home in the barn. Barn's over there, see you tomorrow.

So we slept in the barn that night. And we never thought much of it. Said, well, that's the way it's done around here. So we did that. What was he paying you an hour? Oh, I don't know, probably about 50 cents. I don't know. I have no idea.

Back then, are you kidding me? I mean, not a lot though. Not a lot. It was enough to get some money for food and to the next step, right? And so we worked there for a couple of months made some money and then took off to other parts It takes a lot of discipline though doing hard labor job like that all day for very little money living in a place You're not from not used to you're an outsider. You're just going with the flow You know, it was just that was how it was

Mmm, it wasn't you know, you didn't know anything different. That was the life. That's what you did If you if you wanted to eat you had to get some money if you had it doesn't money good You're just like I said, it's and if you did if the work required that that's what you simply did And it didn't you know, it didn't occur to me to do anything else, right? If the work required that, that's what you simply did. And it didn't occur to me to do anything else. Right. Now what'd you do after that? Because you were there another four and a half, five years.

I went to Australia, I went to Melbourne, lived in Melbourne for a while, traveled from Melbourne, went up to Sydney, worked up in Queensland for a while. Did some sales job there and then decided in 1964 that America was on my sights because I'd always, my sister married an American. And so in England, my sister was dating this American guy, an Air Force guy.

And so I got to meet Americans and talk to them. And I liked them. Were you... Wait, so did she come visit you in Australia, or did you go home to visit them? Ha-ha-ha! Before I left... I'm gonna rewind, okay? I'm living in England, I'm 17 years old, my sister's dating an American guy. Oh, it was before... Ray Wingo. Yeah, before I left.

So you chose Australia over us, and you already knew what the deal was? Yeah, you came in second, but I changed my mind after a while. I said, you know Australia, well, America, let's get away. Well, you and the Beatles had to invade in 64, I understand. That's right, it was 64, it's the Beatles. Yeah, so you were just trying to ride their coattails. So they came over to see me. That's right.

That's why they came here, that's right, because they knew I was here. They knew you were coming. That's probably why they came. So I me. That's right. That's why they came here. That's right. Because they knew I was here. They knew you were coming. That's probably why they came. So I'd always liked America and Americans. You know, I loved the American movies. I liked the spirit of America. Big and ambitious. I liked that.

There was a lot of energy in America, I detected. So I liked that. And so I decided I would come on over here, and I got a... I saved money. I worked day and night. You know what was always my solution? Work. And so I decided I would come on over here and I saved money, I worked day and night. You know what was always my solution? Work. Excuse me, if I wanted to do something, I come to America, and I need to save enough money

to pay for a ship, to get over there and have a few dollars in my pocket when I arrived, you just go to work. And then you work seven days a week, you know, 12 hours a day, and then you get the money, and you save it as fast as you can, and then off you go.

And that's what I did. And so I came off to, I got a ship from Sydney, Australia, to via Tahiti, love Tahiti, beautiful country. Tahiti. Tahiti. I don't think I've ever talked to someone who's been there. Oh, it's just delightful. South Sea Island, just gorgeous. Tahiti. Tahiti. I don't think I've ever talked to someone who's been there.

Oh, it's just delightful, South Sea Island, just gorgeous. You've been to Bora Bora? Nope. Oh, Bora Bora's lovely. Oh, there you are, just, I- I've heard good things. Just lovely, yeah, just lovely. So I sat there, then went to Panama,

and then got a ship from Panama, well, you know where the canal is. Mm-hmm, no. You have to ask Americans if they know about Panama and cano- Oh, I know about that canal. They don't to ask Americans if they know about Panama. Oh, I know about that canal. They don't teach that stuff in school. A lot of drug money went into that stuff.

That's right, oh yeah. So that's the same Panama. Are you into Panama papers? Maybe. I don't like that pause. I didn't like that pause. You had to think about that. But you caused me to pause.

I never paused before. I know I'm pausing on that. Oh dear, Panama papers. So yeah paused before. I know I'm pausing on that. Oh dear, I know our papers. So yeah, so then I flew up to Miami, got off the plane in Miami. I had about a hundred bucks in my pocket. In Miami, that's not nearly enough. In those days, this is before that was like

having $500 in your pocket. I was rich. I had loads of money. In Miami? Yeah, so I know I just got on a Greyhound bus in Miami and drove immediately to Tennessee, where my sister and her husband was. My sister, Ray Wingo, the Air Force guy that I told you about,

they got married, and so they're living now in Tennessee. In Cleveland, Tennessee. Little town in Cleveland, Tennessee, 30,000 people loved it. Cleveland, Tennessee. Cleveland, Tennessee, about an hour from Chattanooga, Tennessee. 30,000 people loved it. Cleveland, Tennessee. Cleveland, Tennessee. About an hour from Chattanooga, Tennessee. Loved it. Loved Tennessee.

What'd you think of America when you put two feet on the ground in Miami? Oh, Miami, I did not get anything but accept assaulted by like a 300% humidity. It was hot and totally oppressive. And so that's all I know about that and the airport. And then I got on the Greyhound bus. That's for the best.

So the next thing is I'm in Cleveland, Tennessee and I love the Tennesseeans. Very calm, easy kind of life. Loved it there. Got a minimum wage job. I needed to get a job. What kind of job? It was mapping.

Mapping? Yeah, drawing maps of parcels of land and so on and so forth. Wow. Yeah. It was nothing. No, it's kind of cool. I mean, we have Google now. So that's an old school job.

Yeah, what is Google? No, it's very old school. Yeah, you had to do it yourself All right now that you just punch it into AI and they do the whole the whole country for you Okay, you you've lived like the whole gamut at this point You you were there when they invented the wheel and now you're using AI to do colleges. Yes, right? It's very cool Yeah, come a long way. Yes. Lived a long time. Now, did you find yourself at this point? You had said, like when you were setting out, you kind of wanted to find yourself

in doing that initial trip, but you do that, you go five months across the world, quite literally, you get to Australia, you figure it out for five years, you dabble in a lot of different things to try to figure out what you wanna do with your life, and then you end up in America, like were you at a point where you're like, you know what, this is, now it's starting to formulate, here's what you wanna do with your life and then you end up in America. Like, were you at a point where you're like, you know what, and this is,

now it's starting to formulate. Here's what I wanna do. Yes and no. I was, I was getting smarter, learned some things. But I actually didn't really figure out what I was gonna do with my life until sort of mid-age. Quite a few years later. And then I went through a process,

a soul-searching process. And you know, you've asked on, you know, you... You asked me about what was a very impactful turning point in my life. And that was me figuring out what I wanted to do with my life when I grew up. I'm 39 years old, and now I've got to a point where I say, hey, it's time I figured it out.

And I did figure it out. But it's not easy to figure out what you want to do with your life. Now, some people, it's really easy. You know, they always want to be in the theater, or they want to write, or they want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or a podcaster. You know, they say, oh, I've got to do it. I've got to just be like Julian.

You know, he's so cool, I want to be him. And that happens, you know, to a lot of kids today. They all want to be like you, obviously. But, you know, if you don't figure that out, a lot of people say, you know, they die without knowing what they want to do with their life. That is really sad. You know, and they think opportunities and dreams

that never happen. But I was fortunate, because I learned how to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I figured out how you did determine a central purpose. But how, between 23 and 39, what's the road like to get to that? I mean, that's a long time. Well, it did a lot of things. And by the time I was in my late 20s,

I'd gotten involved in real estate. Mm, smart man. And that's how I... Smart man. Well, yeah, I guess it was a smart move. It was just Mm, smart man. And that's how I... Smart man. Well, yeah, I guess it was a smart move. It was just a move, you know, that's the thing to do, that's where you make money,

and I decided I wanted to make some money by that point. And so I got in real estate, I'd gotten it, but I didn't like it. I was making money, I'd made some money, and I did good at it, and I thought, this is not really satisfying, this is not, I'm gonna use a big word here. It wasn't soul satisfying.

Soul satisfying. Soul, S-O-U-L. I like that. Yeah, soul satisfying. I like that, it's a nice phrase. I just made that up right now. Yeah. You inspired me to come up with that.

That's what happens, you come to New Jersey, we inspire people. Yeah, satisfying my soul. So I needed to find a purpose that would satisfy my soul So you care you if I'm understand this correctly you also Like there's people who go out there and they're smart and however they can do it they do it However, they make money and pay the bills They don't care what that is just if they if they have a talent and can do it they do it and then there's people

Who are like obviously you want wanna find something you're good at and you wanna be smart and know what you're doing, but they care about how they make money and what they're doing to make that. Would you say you were getting yourself to the point where you're like, listen, I might be good at real estate, I might be good at this, that, or the third, but I really wanna make money doing this

because that's gonna soul satisfy me. But I didn't phrase it like that. It didn't matter what I was good at. I was good at some things, I'd learned some lessons. I'd gotten pretty good at some things. And it didn't happen that way. And it wasn't about money anymore because I'd made money in real estate,

but I didn't like it, I wasn't enjoying it. So I said, what do I really wanna do that I love to do, that I'm fascinating by? How do I work out there's something that reaches me inside my soul? I'm sorry about that. Oh, it's great, I love that. Yeah, I like it too.

But anyhow, so I wanted to figure that out. Something that was meaningful, and then it was cool to make money at it. See, I have this belief, Julian, making money's great. Having lots of money's terrific. I mean, I know, because I have a lot of money, and I love it, I mean, it's great. But it's not the thing.

It isn't the thing. Find something you love to do. Find something that fascinates you. Find something that gets you out of bed every morning. That's the critical thing. Whether it's teaching or writing or being in the theater or being a podcast, whatever it is that energizes you inside.

Say, I love this, I wanna do this. And then, how much money can I make at it? But money comes second to it. You know, it's what you do, what you love to do, because whether you're gonna make a lot of money or not, if you make a lot of money, fine. Some people don't care about a lot of money. They wanna write novels.

They wanna research, they wanna educate. They're not interested in money. And that's okay. As long as they've got enough money to feed their family and feed themselves, that's cool. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now, if you're Elon Musk and you wanna fly to Mars, you're gonna need billions of dollars.

But that's a lesson I learned. When I first made my money, I said, well, I'm making money. How much do I need? And I didn't answer that question. Then I had more money. And I said, how much money is enough money? And I finally came up to an answer for that. It's the question is, what kind of life do you want to live? Do you want to live a lavish life, fly to the stars? Or do you want to just live a simple life with your family do you want to live? Do you want to live a lavish life, you know, fly to the stars, or do you want to just live a simple life with your family? You want to write books, you want to do something simple,

you want to teach, school, or whatever it is. Whatever it is you need, whatever those values are, if you've got enough money to feed those values, to feed what you want to do, then that's enough. And that can be hundreds of, you know, thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousand dollars, or millions. I think people sometimes, and this isn't your fault at all, but when they hear someone like you talk

who does have a lot of money, right? Like you're in the 1%, the 1%, the 1%. They'll cynically be like, yeah, they'll tell you to do what you love, but their life was Meaning a guy like you your life was about Where you ended up making a lot of money? So it's easy for you to say from your percher so to speak like oh you don't need to be happy to have money

And I actually do agree with that I don't think money buys happiness and I think I could demonstrate that in many examples of people I saw on my previous career on Wall Street. That said, it can certainly help. And so if someone maybe wants to be like, think about it, a public job, like a firefighter or something, the fact of the matter is if that's what really excites them, they're great at it, they're doing one of the most important things, which is saving people's lives, the reality is that their monies, especially if they have a family of a few kids and you know, you got to pay for college and stuff these

days, money is always going to be tight. And there may be there may be, you know, a kid out there listening right now who's now 17. And when he was younger, he dreamed of being a firefighter. But now he's like, you know what, as much as I want to do that, I feel like I can't because I'm not going to have enough to stay ahead. So what do you say to someone like that when there are, like, really respectable professions that maybe are never gonna make you financially special or financially really ahead of the curve?

Well, there's a challenge, you know, and having enough money, whatever that is, is critical. I mean, you've got to do that. You've got to feed yourself, feed your family, pursue those things that are meaningful to your home, transportation, those kind of things, entertainment, pleasure. And the only solution I've ever found is you've got to work. You get a better job, you get another job,

you get a second job, you do whatever you need to do. And firefighters, you know, you can get promoted to fire chief, you get promoted and you can do other things. Being a firefighter, you can also do things on the side. I mean today you can work at home, even start a podcasting company and get really rich as a podcaster, you know, just do it on your spare time. There's a lot of solutions for those things, for those people that really want to do it. And I think most people, they've got drive and they're motivated and they care about themselves and they care about their family. I think today in America certainly. Now if you're in North Korea or Iran or something like that,

you know it's not so easy, but America, there are so many opportunities here. And it seems like Americans need to be told by an immigrant such as me how great you have it and how great the opportunities are, because it really is a land of opportunity. I agree with you, and I think, and we can talk about them today,

I'm sure we're gonna get into it with some of the philosophy but there are things that are Certainly not as good as they used to be and there are some trends that we we really do have to fix but at the end of the day there is still the American dream may not be as Widely attainable as it was in 1970 But it still exists and you can see people, this is a country, one of the few countries in the world where people really can, I don't like saying it this way, but technically by like wealth,

they can jump class structure. Meaning you can come from nothing in this country and then end up being a guy like you. I mean, you even came to this country, you weren't even from here initially, and you didn't come from anything in England. You weren't like Archduke Carl Barney or anything like that. You were just showing up and getting to work.

And I think that stuff like that is a great example. But one of the trends that does really concern me that I think is leading to this, I guess, like cloud over society that makes people, before they even get to college wonder what it's all for is We do see that wealth gap happening right now. I Don't think the answer to that is saying that can't be billionaires anything like that I think you have to have competition you have to have people who win like yourself and that is what it is But since Steven Pinker has some charts that really show it where like since the beginning

of the 80s, you just see the distribution of wealth going in a V like this, which to the side, which if you're listening, not watching, this is not a good way to go. And you see a lot you see such a large percentage of it held by such a small percent of people. And some of the really successful people I've talked to get concerned that there's gonna be a part of society that was able to cash in on that early enough, that they're so far ahead, that so few other people will ever be able to catch up. And that idea of rising class structure

that we still have in America might die. Do you think that that's a reasonable concern that some people have? No, I didn't think so No I think I don't think the sky is falling. I think the sky is blue. I think the sky is grayed They're up and come on. There's storm clouds There's thunder. There's lightning it rains. It snows sometimes a coconut falls on your head. That's what common said

Yeah, I mean that will happen too. That's what Kamala said. Yeah, I mean, that will happen too. That's right. Yeah, so I mean, stuff happens. As they say, shit happens. And it does. And there's a... But, you know, there's a phrase I read recently.

The sun shines, it creates shadows. But the sun doesn't care about the shadows. It just keeps on shining. And America's still got a lot of sunshine there for the people, and sure there are clouds, and sure there are problems, and so forth. And I don't know how big these problems are and how much the gap is, you know.

But, you know, I don't care about somebody having more money than me. There's not that many who have more money than me. I don't care if they do. And it does, I don't think they keep score. You know what, I just never, I don't think they keep score. You know what, I'll tell you something about people with money. It's a problem for them.

Oh, I know very well. What are you gonna do? And that was one of my big problems. What am I gonna do with the money? I can't spend it. You know, I can only have so many fine restaurants that take, you know, go on trips and cruises and airplanes, but then there's money left over.

What are you gonna do? Particularly when you start getting beyond 65, which I am at 65. As I get a little older, I start to get a little worried about what I'm gonna do. Because I don't wanna die with all this money. Can't bury you with it. No, they can't.

Yeah. No, they can't. Yeah, that was one of the, you know, I'm grateful even though I did not like Wall Street, it was not for me. I'm grateful for the time I spent there because I learned a lot. I worked for an awesome dude and I learned a lot of amazing lessons. Our business dealt with ultra high net worth individuals and public companies. So we were dealing with people that hadn't, I think the average net worth by the time

I was done was like 80 or 85 million. We dealt with some people like you who were a billionaire and other people with 20, 30 million. And there are people who handled it the right way and lived life happily and didn't let the bullshit get into their day or worry about what private jet they were taking and shit like that. But then there were other people who never saw a problem they couldn't invent.

And all the root causes of those problems were, I would say themselves, it's a personal problem. But the thing that the the incubator of that was the money, whether that be with family or friends or just like stuff where I just want to be like, Listen, lady, I'm making 50k a year to tell you what to do, please stop this. You know, and they wouldn't. And I saw it again and again. And I think there's something to be said for how people

Approach their money like whether or not they do look at it like oh, it's just a score I got to keep with everyone else or whether they look at it like hey, I've earned this This is now it allows me to live my life the way I want to live and you know what I'm gonna try to find This in and happiness in that which seems to be more the route you've taken Yeah, that's that's that, that's actually all mine. I didn't have a plan to get rich. I went into real estate knowing I wanted enough money, so I didn't have to worry about money.

So that was the thing. The default thing was find something to do that'll make some money, and so do work. So I worked at some real estate, and I made money. I was good, I worked hard at it, and I made the money. But then getting into, I made money, I was good. I worked hard at it. And I made the money. And then, but then getting into, I did not think when I decided to get into education, private career colleges, I did not think about money.

It just never occurred to me that I would make money running private colleges. Just didn't hurt. And I got good at it. I worked very hard at it. And I figured it out. I figured out how to do this. Constantly figuring things out.

Constantly thinking, constantly planning. Built some great schools and they started getting wealthy. Particularly right after the financial crisis. Because people came to school by the thousands. After the financial crisis. Oh yeah, because there's so many people unemployed. When they're unemployed, what are they gonna do? They say, oh, I better go back to school.

Let's go get into debt, let's go. Yeah, right, let's do it. And so that's what they did. They came to school, and there was a big surge. So I rode that surge. Now I worked very hard there to take care of that, because this was success and opportunity, which then I enhanced and built, And the money started coming in. I

was more surprised than anybody, you know, how much money? Well, look, what's in the bank account, but I never stayed up nights counting and never even give it a second thought. And even today, I don't give money a second thought. Now, I don't have to, you know, chop, say, that was the next thing. But no, but I've never really been that concerned about. When you've got it, you say, Julian, when you've got enough, it's enough. Whether that's like 50K a week,

or a billion dollars, or a trillion dollars, when you've got enough for what you love, and what you care about, whatever it is, you know, teaching or podcasting, just what you love to do, and what you want to do, and you want to do and you got enough money to do that. You're, you're, you're, you're blessed. You're blessed. You don't need more. And you know, if it happens, it's fine. It's great. So you understand that and that's great. That means you figured it out.

Because exactly. There are a lot of people who have more money than you even some of these people who there's no such thing as enough. They keep telling themselves. I know, but if you even look at those in all seriousness, if you even look at those, it's like there's never that's a word that they'll be like, well, when I get to this point, I'll have enough. I saw it again and again in my own career. When I get to this point, I'll have enough. And then you get there. Well, now I got to worry about this, this or that. So I need this much. And like, that's no way to live. It's not, you know, I, I would just want the simple things in life to not have to worry

about it, not have to worry about a bill, not have to worry about going on a nice vacation, you know, but you know, it's, it's like people have to, you have to actually hold, I think you have to hold yourself to that. Like you have to think about where you are right now. And if you don't, if it's not financially where you want to be, be like, okay, well, what would it take for me to be there? And then when you're actually there, appreciate that you're there. It doesn't mean shut down and retire and not do anything from that point, but like have

some perspective on that. Even where I am right now in my business, money comes in and it goes right out because I spend on it. But I'm grateful to be able to do that because even just over two years ago when I was in my parents house, I couldn't afford to get my own place. So coming from that to where I'm at now, night and day, you know, so there's like, yes, it's a process. Yes, some of it sucks.

But it's like, wow, we've really, really if the step was there we're on this step now We'll figure out how to get to that step where I don't have to worry about bills and stuff But on the way there, it's like we're trending in the right direction That's a good point. And you know, you mentioned like three things that are really important right there So you're smart guy smart cookie. I'd like to think so. Yeah I think so. Appreciate. Stop and appreciate what you're doing and how far you've come compared to what you're doing.

A lot of people that are very successful, they're always thinking about the next goal, the next step, the next what's in the future. And they never stop and say, and they make themselves miserable. You know, I'm not there yet, I still gotta do something more, I still gotta do something more, and they're still striving and struggling and stressing for what's in the future. They just stop for a minute, look at where you come, dude.

Yeah. Look past it, look what you achieved. And so you look back and say, I've done this, I've done that, and so on. Appreciating, appreciating yourself, also appreciating others in your life. Appreciation's a big word. I love big words like that. Soul, appreciation.

Another big word. You want another big word? Gratitude. You feel grateful to yourself. You know, I've done pretty good, I'm really grateful to myself. I'm also grateful to my producer, the amazing producer. I'm also grateful to whoever, whoever it is that's been a friend for you, a supporter, an employee that's lifted you up to where you are today. I think it's really important that you also,

as a human, you feel those things. And what I mean by that is there's a lot of performative aspects of that where people are like, oh, I just have so much gratitude. And it's like they're just doing it to try to put it in the universe or whatever. But you actually have to think about, like, especially whenever you're building something, all the people who

buy into you and come along with you or support you. Not even, I'm not talking about financially. I'm saying literally just like, hey, good job, dude. And stuff like that. Like, thinking about coming from nothing with this, it's like, those are the people that kept me going. Just like the little texts, like love what you're doing, bro. That's all it takes.

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, now you figured out at 39, you wanted to get into education. Yeah. What was, I mean, you mentioned you got into real estate and were doing that between 23 and 39. What other things were you doing though that kind of like got you to that point

where you're like, this is what I want my life to be about? Well, I started to struggle because I knew I didn't, like you, I wasn't into real estate. I didn't want to do it. It was working, I liked it and so forth. But I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do with my life that would be meaningful. You know, I didn't know it at the time,

but I wanted my purpose. You know, it was just like a strange thing. And then I came across a book by Ayn Rand, and she talked about a central purpose. And I said, what's a central purpose? Because we all have a lot of purposes. But a central purpose, what is a central purpose, and how, what's a central purpose? Because we all have a lot of purposes, but a central purpose. What is a central purpose and how do you go about it?

Now I talked to my friends, I didn't hire a culture, a consultant to figure out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life and what I wanted to do when I grew up. I couldn't figure it out. And then I read this book and Rand said, it's about values, not religious values, not faith, hope, and charity, and being nice to the poor people

or helping the homeless, but certain kind of values. Material, real values like health and wealth. Love is a value. Self-esteem is a value. Purpose itself is a value. Your home, your kids, all of these things are tangible, real values. And Rand said it's about values. What are your values in life? And then emerging from your values,

you can find a purpose. So I listed down dozens of different things. Big values, small values, business values, economic values, personal values, recreation values, pleasures, all of these long lists of things. And I organized them from top to bottom. And I said, what's the top of here?

What's the top of value here? I still got those notes, I got pages of notes. You still have that? Yeah, some I've got in my product to where I said. You gotta tweet that out or something. Yeah, I should write a book about it. What a good idea, write a book. I wrote a book, you know?

So it's a great book, you guys should read it. So anyhow, so yeah, a write a book about it. What a good idea right? I wrote a book, you know So it's great book. You guys should read it. Yeah, so anyhow, so yeah, look at that book Yeah, don't we pause for a break here and you you tell people to buy my book everyone go buy the book right now the happiness Experiment Carl needs the money Please buy my phone on tough times and if you buy this He'll be good. Yeah, you'll make a lot of money.. And if you buy this, he'll be good. Yeah, you'll make a lot of money, I guarantee it. Link in description. No, you'll be a lot happier.

Don't about money though. Yeah, so what I did is I looked at all these things, and then the most obvious thing in the world occurred to me. I love management. I like managing things. Management to me is a magic subject. Everybody's a manager. You said that to me today earlier.

But it's true, you manage your own life. You manage your family, you manage your business, you manage your money, you manage all these things. And management is a universal knowledge and skill, and I love management. I used to read management books and love it. And so, and then I thought, well, I wanna manage. So yeah, what am I gonna manage?

And I said, well, something, what am I gonna manage? And I said, well, something, what I'm gonna do. So I went back to my values and came across education. Education is a really personal, strong value, a spiritual value, if you like. It's not material, but it's a spiritual thing. Education, wisdom, if you like. And I loved that.

And I also knew that was a very high value for the world. Education is so critical, it's fundamental, it's so many things to individuals' lives. In fact, to the whole nation, depends upon good education. And you were really self-educated too. You never even, you stopped school after high school and traveled pretty much, right?

I did a little bit of college, but mostly I'm self-educated. I read and I take courses. I've taken hundreds of courses, read hundreds of books. I'm a self-taught person. Yeah, I love that. So, education. So then I thought, well, management and education. So I'm gonna manage something to do with education.

And I had no idea at the time. Now, um... You know, I'm obviously not gonna try to buy a big university, but a friend of mine told me that there are these private career colleges. And I said, what's these private career colleges. And I said, what's a private career college? He said, well, I'll arrange a tour for you. So I went on this tour from this small business college. And they said, well, it's practical,

it's hands on. They're here focused on getting a job at the end of it. I said, well, that's pretty cool. How does it work? And I found out about how it worked. And I knew nothing about it. I never worked in a career college before. How did it work? I don't know. Like we throw around the term college all the time. There's all different types of colleges. There's all different ways that they actually like cut the cake. So how did this specific example, like from a business perspective, work? It's pretty much the same with all colleges and universities except in degree. Now all colleges and universities, they have what they call admissions. Harvard has it, Yale has it, career colleges have it. So you get people come in and say,

I'm thinking about going to your school. So you give them a tour, you tell them what the tuition is and you arrange for them to enroll. Now all the colleges and universities go through an enrollment process. So this person enrolls and then they go through financial aid. All colleges and universities, they accept heritage and a couple of others, have student financial aid. That's how they survive. So you go through that process and then they figure out they can afford the tuition and they start classes.

It's the same sort of thing, only it's much smaller than Harvard or Yale or the big colleges and universities. And it's very focused, they're shorter terms, typically a year or two. So they're focused on nursing or respiratory therapy or business or accounting or computer skills of some kind, IT. And so it's very much career-oriented. You don't go there to study literature or history

or politics. Who needs that? Yeah. Right. So these are a certain type of student. They want to go to work, and they're looking for work rather than education. If they want to get education, then they go into

the humanities and some of the great universities. Not great universities, but there's some problems there, too, as we know. Oh, yeah, yeah, we can get into that. So you were first learning about this type of college at this time when you're thinking you want to get into the business of education, whatever that is. But a lot of them, as you were saying,

it's like one to two years, meaning you're not paying for a full four years, you're paying less, you're more focused, like you said, you're not paying for a full four years, you're paying less, you're more focused, like you said, you're going very specifically in on this is what I want to do, I'm going to come out doing that. So you're not getting necessarily the well rounded, full blown, say like liberal arts education or something like that. But you are getting a clear like mission oriented process of, I'm gonna get exactly what I want out of this degree, and that is to have this kind of job. Very focused.

The knowledge and skills, you get a bit of general education also. It's required by the accrediting agencies. You have to do English and math and some history and stuff like that, civics. But it's mostly focused. If you wanna be a nurse, that's what you study. You wanna be involved in computers and science

and way of programming, that's what you learn. You don't go any fluff and it's accelerated. You don't take four years to do it. You take a year or two years. And that's what we did. In my colleges, and I built up to 20 on ground locations and an online university, Independence University. How many years did that take?

I was involved in it for almost 30 years. Right. So you started in 81 and then? Actually, it was later than that. I got my first school in 1985, a small business college in San Jose. I knew nothing. I'd never worked in one of these before. I knew nothing about accreditation, I knew nothing about financial aid. And then I just got involved and I learned about it, took some courses, which is what I do, went to work and it became successful.

Did you buy that school or so it was existing already? It was an existing school, it was troubled, and I took it over. Why was it troubled? It was an existing school. It was troubled, and I took it over. Why was it troubled? It was owned by two people, a partnership, and they had gotten sideways with each other. They were hostile to each other, and they racked up a lot of bills, and they couldn't make the rent,

and they couldn't pay their bank loans. So they were underwater. I took it over and fixed it. How much did you buy a school for in 1985, do you remember? The equivalent, probably about a million dollars, but I didn't pay cash, I took over their bills, I took over the liabilities, and I did pay a few things for them,

you know, I paid their taxes, because that was a problem. Gotta do that. Yeah, I had to pay that, and I paid their taxes. That was a problem. You had to pay that. Yeah, I had to pay that, and I paid their bank loans off. And I did those sort of things. I put in a few hundred thousand dollars into it, and then the rest of it was taken over the bills. So you had already made a good nest egg

from your years in real estate and some of your other endeavors. I'd saved some money out of the real estate, and I poured that money into the college, and that's what happened. Did you have a family of your own at this point, or...? I'd saved some money out of the real estate and I poured that money into the college and That's what happened. Did you have a family of your own at this point or no? No, I'm just single at that point. Mm-hmm So you open up the first one? What you know, how how long did it take to turn that around and actually get that into a place where? You know students wanted to be and it became a real destination?

Well, it was a beautiful little college. It was a really sweet college, beautiful facility. I loved the faculty. It was troubled, but basically it was really a great school. And I hired somebody to run it because I was gonna go off and acquire some other schools. I was now gonna build an and acquire some other schools. I was now gonna build an empire, so to speak.

School empire. A school empire, education empire. I was gonna have 100, my goal was centered, my dream, my goal was 100 on ground campuses. And I could have done that too, but it ran into the government. So the government was a pretty big, big, big thing to run into.

Especially in California. In California and New York, yeah. So anyhow, so I hired somebody to run it and I said, send me money, make some profit and send me the money. Joe, send me money. That's our new motto now, thank you, Julie. Send me money. That's our new motto now. Thank you Julie. Send me money. Lauren, money. Thank you.

You're making a joke of it, but believe me, what's the joke? There's no joke right there. I want money. So he said, Carl, we've got a problem with payroll. Can you send me some money? And I said, that's not what I had in mind. And he said, well, you either want to make payroll or not. And so I said, all right, just this month, I'll make a payroll for you. And then the next few weeks, he said,

we got rent coming up, we need another check. And after six months, I was running out of money. Yeah. As it was, you know, we were not in the soul. And so I said, I better get involved with this deeply. And I rolled up my shirt sleeves and, so to speak, slept on the factory floor. Not literally, but I worked and worked and got involved in it.

And after another six months, it was very successful. So if I'm understanding that correctly, at first, you were more, I don't wanna overuse this term, but in a sense, like more of the main investor, but passive manager, so you're focused on other endeavors during the day? No, that's not quite right. No, no, I was active in management. I did a lot of thinking and planning.

That's been my fallback. That's my default. Think and plan, think and plan. And so I've done a lot of that, but I let him run the operation. Got it. And he just didn't, wasn't able to do it. And he said, look, if you want this to happen, you're going to have to do it yourself. And I said, OK, I'll come and work with you.

And I worked with him. And we then made it very successful. And then I started acquiring and opening very successful. And then I started acquiring and opening a new college and then finally got to 20 on-ground campuses. And as I told you, Independence University, we taught solely degree programs, associates degrees, bachelor's and then master's levels. We put in a master's program in management, nursing, and computer science. So we had a master's level as well as the others. And our fields were business management, accounting, graphic arts, computer science,

and healthcare. And we did respiratory therapy. We had the largest respiratory therapy program in the world. And a large service room. We did nursing, we did medical assisting, we did business accounting, all of those things there. They were very focused.

Great schools, beautiful schools, lovely staff. They were lovely. Building up 20 schools in 30 years is a lot, and because you're essentially creating new brands of schools and when you look at colleges, it's one of like the oldest institutions in America. So colleges have alumni networks that started 150 years ago. Obviously the people 150 years are dead, but you understand what I mean? Like they were able to set up these systems so long ago.

So were you guys able to set up pretty good systems for your qualified students when they're leaving school to have connections in the real world to be able to place them in good places? Yeah, that was a big part of our service. We had a career services department, which we started right in the beginning when their students are rolling. So what you're here for is to get the knowledge and skills so that you can get a job. And we're gonna teach you the skills to seek out positions, to interview, to write a resume, all the things you need to do. And we would work with them and coach them and mentor them until they got a job.

This is one of our major metrics. What percentage of the graduates were employed within a certain timeframe? And it was, it was a very important metric and career colleges have that metric and money that the crediting agencies require it. It's not required to Harvard or Yale. You can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and not get a job. In fact, there's a lot of people going to Harvard, Yale, the big schools, and not getting jobs. Not getting jobs. Not real jobs, yeah, in their field. That's what I'm reading.

Is it fake news? I don't know, but it seems very reliable. Well, would that mean that, like, let's just use the most stereotypical one. If someone goes to like Harvard, to get a Harvard degree, and they happen to major in, I don't know, fucking gender studies or something like that, then they get a job on Wall Street,

because they went to Harvard. Would that count as what you're saying, like someone not getting a job and what they were going there for? Well, it wouldn't. It would count as a job, obviously, because they're getting a job. Now, I doubt whether Wall Street would hire somebody from Harvard for gender studies,

even though they went to Harvard. But, you know... I've seen it. You have seen it. But the thing is, properly, you're hired in the field of your study. If you study gender studies, then you should get a job doing gender studies or something.

I don't know what you would do. You would go into politics, I guess. But whatever you study, you should get a job in that field. Unless you're just doing it and say, hey, I don't need the money. I'm not looking for a job. I just want to be a student and a researcher, or I want to teach. You know, a lot of these people, they end up by teaching gender studies to other people who are not going to get a job. Yeah. What do you think, as someone who comes from that world and built a bunch of

education institutions, what do you think of what's happened, not at all colleges or across the board, but thematically across the college space with what we've seen with respect to a lack of challenging ideas, a lack of acceptance of diversity of ideas, if you will, and kind of a more, you've seen – not to go too far with it, but you have seen elements of even like Marxism and stuff like that enter college campuses, which is kind of anti-intellectual. What do you think of that whole phenomenon, which has really happened over the last 10 to 15 years,

more than anything? I was very sad, you know, because education made this country great, or at least contributed to it. Yes. The founding ideas, you know, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and education. The founders, they created great universities, you know. Pennsylvania was created by Benjamin Franklin.

Columbia was founded by, I don't know who did it. Jefferson founded the University of Virginia, and Washington helped fund George Washington University. So they created great educational institutions. And Harvard and Yale, these are great institutions. Unfortunately, there's some parts of them, mostly the humanities that have gone astray. And they are teaching socialism and Marxism

and they become very Marxist in their humanity. It's not in their sciences, not in their law, not in their management, but you know that's part of the problem that's happening with America today. Socialism is taking over in America. When I came to this country, communism was a dirty word. Socialism was a dirty word. You think it's taken over?

was a dirty word. You think it's taken over? Taking over is a big step. Is it in the process of taking over? Yes. Is it too late to turn it around? I hope not. But there's no question that it is advancing.

And you see this all the time, how socialism is now respectable. There are people running for office who are avowed communists. Look at Bernie and AOC. These are avowed socialists. Socialism and communism, they're very much the same thing. Socialism is communism. Communism is socialism.

Just one is a harder word than the other, but they're both basically the same thing. And they're being popular. So, yes, communism and socialism is advancing in America. And when I came to America in 1964, that would have been unimaginable. If I'd have said that to anybody at that time, or anybody had said it at that time,

they would be laughed at. But it's happened in that in this last 60 years or so. What do you think's causing it? When it comes to the causes, well, I've got a conspiracy theory. Please do share. How would you like? It's almost like a foreign country

is infiltrating the universities. Which one? Is it the Middle East? Is it China? Is it Russia? I know they're putting billions of dollars. That's a B, a billion dollars. Billions of dollars.

The Middle East, Qatar, and other Middle East countries, they're putting billions of dollars into American universities and sending their students over here. Is China, China sends a lot of people here, they're putting money into this country? Are they infiltrating our colleges and universities

and causing more and more socialism? Socialist professors, it's definitely coming from the universities, you know, that's where it comes from. But what is causing it in the universities? And the conspiracy theory, if you like, because I don't have any information, seems like a foreign country is infiltrating the universities in America.

There's evidence for that. Yeah, I think if it comes down to like everything else in life when you follow the money, like who's funding what that's funding what that's funding what that's funding something at the university that's funding people at the university? Yeah, and what are they funding? They're funding their ideas, their ideology.

China wants the rest of the world to be communist. Russians still want the rest of the world to be socialist. They failed. And there are certain influences. They want to get their ideas into the world. And some of the ideas are not very good ideas. They're very bad ideas that have caused a lot of harm to millions of people throughout the world.

And it's very sad that that should happen to America. You know, Carl, I agree with you that there are some ideological subversions, if you will, going on. And certainly an amazing, or not amazing, but like a prime example is on college campuses and generally generationally the way people are thinking about things in a different way than they used to. But I think what we also should be careful of is missing the other part of the plot here, which is that and Joe and I were talking about this a lot off camera, there

are a lot of people who feel like they have never been a part of the capitalism system. And so maybe they're uneducated on what socialism always devolves into. Like if you just read what socialism is supposed to be, oh, it's this amazing idea. It never works once the population gets past a certain number. That said, there's people who may, again, not be educated on what that is because that's not the specific thing they're looking at, but what they are looking at is the fact that they can't pay their bills. What they are looking at is that there's very few people driving around in Ferraris and those that do want nothing to do with them. What they are looking at is their corporate jobs. Tell them to check in at nine, get out at five, and there's no hope at the end of it.

By the way, they're 34 years old and they still got $100,000 of college debt because they were told at 17, hey, sign this paper right here. Don't worry about what it means or what the rate is or what that even is. You got to go to this place for four years. Get your gender studies degree. I don't really give a shit what you get a degree in, but you got to go to this place for four years, get your gender studies degree. I don't really give a shit what you get a degree in, but go there because that's what the system says you have to do. And then they get out on the other side of the system and they go, wait a minute.

I mean, I drank and smoked a lot of good stuff, but what was I even doing there for four years? And now they're taking it out at the ballot box. So when you see someone, for example, like Zoran, who just won this primary in New York City, I agree with you. The guy is a very clear socialist. I'm into, I don't even like the two party system, but I'm into Republicans and Democrats because when you go over here way off the edges, it gets crazy and you get to things like socialism.

But for people to ignore why he won, which was going to the same districts that broke for Donald Trump this past November and getting those people down to what are your core issues? More money in my wallet. Here's how I'm going to do that for you. Oh, sounds good to me. I'll vote for you. That's what he did. So I think we have to look at, especially guys like you who are powerful people in our

society who have lived the American dream and seen the upside of it, I think a big part of what we got to do is also show people that that's still possible and try to fix some of these things that have gotten out of it. I think a big part of what we got to do is also show people that that's still possible and try to fix some of these things that have gotten out of whack. For example, you know, the fact that people are paying 200 grand to go to college for four years and not getting anything from it. You are, that is, that is the number one thing that I'm grateful for in my life. I was an only child and because of that, I didn't have college debt. As far as I'm concerned, that's like being born halfway down the third baseline. I mean, when I talk to my friends who have college debt,

even those that have more manageable, it affects their decisions in their 20s. That is not something that I had to worry about. And so I wish there were more people that had that opportunity like me, and they wouldn't have to worry about those things. So Julian, you've just articulated that very well. You know, you speak very well. You speak very well.

Thank you. Okay. I do it for a living. Right, you're good at it. So what do you think is the cause of that? Where do you think is, what is your view of what's wrong? Anger. I think the system broke.

I think that, well, let's look at it from the college example. Have you ever read the book by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukanoff called The Coddling of the American Mind? I know of it, I don't remember if she read it. So I read that shortly after I got out of college and it was like seeing a ghost because I was leaving college right when these kind

of movements were just starting. And so my first couple years of college, we didn't really have that, and then we got it. And I say that because I'm on the very back end of the millennials, very back end, right where it starts to overlap with Gen Z. And Gen Z is where a lot of these anger and those types of emotions came up at society and at the system.

And when you look at where they came from, Gen Z are people born from late 1996 through, call it like 2011 or something like that. These are kids that grew up post 9-11 during the Iraq War, which was a terrible war we shouldn't have done, the economic crisis where everything crashed, and the wealth gap growing at an exponential rate and then the internet coming in to consume our whole lives and also we need to take some

responsibility for this in society including Gen Z like all of us a place where we get addicted to seeing how good everyone else has it and reminded that we don't and so there is a massive I wouldn't even say disdain, but there's like kind of that dark shadow casted over the American dream for that generation in particularly. And these are the people now coming out into the workforce. And I think when, you know, someone's making $41,000 a year in New York City right now working their marketing job at age 24 with, you know, $125,000 of college debt, they're pretty mad at the system.

And I think they turn to things like Zoran and say, well, that sounds a little better. Yeah, you speak to that, unfortunately, very well. And it's not a pretty picture. But I still ask you, what is the root cause of this? Where do you think this mess comes from? The other side of endless wars. Endless wars. Financial strife and a lack of,

and I don't mean this in a socialistic term, but a lack of a more healthy distribution of wealth. Not saying that should be done by the government to go tax people to balance it all out, like socialism would want it done, but I'm saying just that V in the wealth gap that's happened. I think those are the causes. Well, I can speak to student debt,

because I know about student debt, and I think it's unconscionable. I think it's outrageous. And it's come about because the government has provided low-cost student loans. You don't have to qualify for them. Anybody can come and say, oh, yeah, I get a debt again.

And they said, well, now you can borrow $5,000. Next year, you can borrow $6,000, until you can now borrow $100,000, or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Graduate students, they can go up, I think, $500,000. You can borrow it. $500,000. Yeah, you can buy that much.

You can get that much because you get one degree and then you get another and you just go on. There's a huge amount of student debt in master's degree programs, post-graduate. And so then the universities are getting fat, they're getting all of this money coming in, and plus an endowment, so you have this money, they increase the student tuition each year.

And it's been going on for, the student tuition has so far, it's like many times multiples the rate of inflation. So they've loaded up these kids with this massive amount of debt. But you know we're starting with the government programs. Well meaning, you know we want education, we're gonna support it,

we're gonna increase the amount of student loans. Isn't that great? No it's not great because these kids are gonna be stuck with this. And the great universities, I mean you know education can't cost, this. And the great universities, I mean, you know education costs, it can't cost, in some of the great universities, could cost you $100,000 per year.

Yeah, it's crazy. And then you've got all of these things like that. Many of them are 40, 50, $60,000 a year. And that racks up over four or five years. And then you throw in a postgraduate study and you can be up into hundreds of thousands of dollars. Which you said is like, now I'm gonna start my life, what a great graduation gift for me,

now pay off your student loans. But where did it come from? It came from these mulling programs that come up. And then you know endless wars, there's the Kuwait war and there's other wars, whether you believe, or the Iraq war that went into Kuwait, whether you like that or not. There's probably, of course, Vietnam

is a whole different story. And then Afghanistan. Mm-hmm. You know? How that turned out. And what? How that turned out. And how that, oh, that was just horrible.

That was tragic. Terrible, terrible end to it. And can we talk about, can we change the subject? Hey, look at my book. It's the happiness experiment,. It's got real dark You know, we gotta we gotta get to the darkness to get to the happiness Oh last question on this then and then we'll get more towards the stuff you want to talk about But how would you fix it? How would you fix the college?

System that I'm planning to fix it you are I am planning to fix it because I'm creating a great University You are I am planning to fix it because I'm creating a great university Love that segue see what I did there. That was good. Yeah, pretty you pretty good at this. Yeah. Thank you. So What I'm doing is using advanced technology AI and avatars I'm creating great professors, perfect professors, professors that will engage with you one on one,

which is the most effective and efficient way of teaching. You can learn twice as much in half the time, and there's studies on this, even at Harvard recently. They did a study, regular teachers, avatar teachers or tutors, twice as much in less than half the time. You can look it up as Mirstein, Kirstein, I can give you the site. But Harvard University, they did this study. They did this study and so I'm creating these avatars. You'll be able to engage with them.

They'll be motivating. They'll be totally patient, respectful. You can ask them anything about anything that they know. If you ask them a question off the wall, they'll say, well, I don't know about that. But they'll know everything they know. They'll have it right at their electronic fingertips. And they'll be able to teach you step by designed stepped not not, you know

a professor just professing, you know from the from the podium But teaching you step by step in an organized designed way and then you go from one professor to another you go from Socrates then you go to Plato and then you go to Aristotle then you go to The next philosopher and the next one through. The same with economics, the same with history, the same with finance, the same with management. You go from one professor to another in an organized, structured way. So you're going to have Professor Aristotle? Absolutely.

So you're recreating Aristotle? Absolutely. I've already created Socrates. I'll show you a video on it if you like. Yeah, can we pull this up? Yeah, show us. Is this what you gave Joe before on the PowerPoint? Yeah, that's this one. We got this Joe, a video of Socrates. I'll turn the mic on. So you're designing them, obviously, like in the image that you want, but you have a team of guys. Team of guys, they're lifelike. And this is one, like, six months old now, which is ancient history. But he's still, this is the kind of guy. This is Plato. Let's get a mic on Socrates.

Let's get a mic on Socrates, hear what he has to say. God, he even looks the part. Greetings, patrons. I am Socrates here what he has to say. God even looks the part. Greetings patrons I am Socrates philosopher, godfly of Athens and now a professor at XG University where I engage in the art of teaching as dialogue. The first step toward understanding is the recognition of one's own ignorance. At XGU, we know that there is much more to know. We do not merely transfer knowledge to masses, but ignite thought in individuals. For, I have said no one can teach if by teaching we mean the mechanical transmission of knowledge from one person to another.

The most that can be done is that one person who is more knowledgeable than another can by asking a series of questions stimulate the other to think and cause him to learn for himself. This is the power of one-to-one teaching, the patient unfolding of reason tailored to the mind before us, forging wisdom through inquiry. And so I extend an invitation to you. Let your sons and daughters join us at XG University, where they will not simply be taught,

but challenged to think, to question, and to discover the truth for themselves. Ladies and gentlemen, I am Benjamin Franklin. Get the fuck, you have Ben Franklin too? A professor at XG University, where we embrace the power of personalized education. I don't think he talks like that though. True learning is not about passive instruction, but active engagement. As I have said, tell me and I forget.

Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn. At XG University, we harness the transformative potential of one-to-one teaching, an approach that adapts to the learner fostering curiosity, independence and mastery. Just as I once gathered knowledge from the great minds of my time, we now cultivate thinkers by drawing them into the process of discovery. For knowledge is not bestowed but earned, and the best education equips the mind to think, innovate, and lead.

Ladies and gentlemen, education is not about memorizing facts. Who's this guy? It is about achieving mastery. My name is Marcus, and I am a management professor at XG University and an expert on Peter Drucker. Alright, I like Ben Franklin and Socrates better. We work on Marcus here. Go to the next one. Fast forward to the next one. Click if you can.

Alright, let Marcus keep going. In business, as in life, half learning leads to half results. Organizations thrive when individuals develop real competence, not just surface level understanding. The same applies to education. At XG University we move beyond standardized pacing and allow students to progress as they master concepts, ensuring deep comprehension and real world I love the books in the background. Herb Studios. I love the books in the background. Herb Studios. Oh, we got Shakespeare. Oh, you got the gangster.

Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster.

Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster.

Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. Oh, you got the gangster. ladies, and most illustrious patrons, pray lend me your ears, for I am none other than William Shakespeare. Oh, you got the gangster hearing in him too. A humble and impassioned professor at the hallowed halls of XG University, a place where learning is not a mere drudgery of rote and recitation,

but a grand and glorious communion with the most luminous minds ever to grace the annals of history. For what dear friends, is education if not the sacred inheritance of wisdom bestowed upon us by the Titans who have shaped the world with thought and quill. To study with us is not to dwell in the dusty tomes of yore but to walk among giants, to spar in wit with Socrates, to forge reason's path with Aristotle, to unearth the secrets of the universe

alongside Newton himself. We do not simply instruct, we ignite. We summon forth the very fire of genius, the passion of inquiry, the ecstasy of understanding. For is not the past but the prologue, a mighty foundation upon which the future is sculpted. At XG University, education is no mere script to be memorized, it is a tale yet unwritten, an epic yet to unfold.

And you, noble scholars, are the authors of your own destiny. One mind, one soul, one boundless future at a time. Did you have Tom Wilkinson do his voiceover before he died? That's literally Tom Wilkinson. Is that right? Yeah. It's an art. Finding the images and finding the voice takes a lot of time.

You know, what does Shakespeare really sound like? What did Benjamin Franklin sound like? So there was a lot of thought and work and back and forth on that. The images and the voice were a work of art. But this is like six months ago, we're perfecting it, we're getting better. But these will be our professors.

You will learn literature from the great writers such as Shakespeare. You'll learn management from Peter Drucker and the other great management professors. All right. I have so many questions here, but let's start at the root of it. How do you go about, just to keep an example on it, how do you go about building Shakespeare the Professor? Do you just take every word he ever wrote and every biography ever written about him and like upload it to the AI

and have it amalgamate all that to create a character? How does it happen? Yes. You said that very well. And it's, well, it's not hard, but it's not easy. You, in a large language model, you can get everything he wrote, which is very small when you compare it to the masses of books.

The AI have 130 million books. Shakespeare, what he's got a few dozen, maybe a few hundred. But you get those down, he is trained on them, completely those, and he can answer instantly any question about anything he wrote. And he'll be able to just go step there, why he wrote what he wrote, and why he did this, and why he did that.

So we'll be able to explain his theme and the plot to each of his pieces. And he will know those things, because he has all of that information at his fingertips. So, I mean, it's wildly fascinating and can definitely give a lot of information out. But there's something, I've been talking to you about this very shortly before we got on camera, but I'll expand upon it now that we are on camera.

There's something about this that's reminiscent of some of the same questions I have from my friend, Ben Lamb, who's building that company called Colossal, which is trying to remake the woolly mammoth and just remade the dire wolves. And one of the things I've talked about with him is that it's very hard to evolutionarily recreate something that's been extinct. So if you look at the woolly mammoth, you may

be able to get some DNA sequencing using CRISPR that recreates something that looks exactly like the woolly mammoth, walks like the woolly mammoth, the whole bit. But it's very hard to build in the millions of years of evolution that happened in their actual environments that shaped how that DNA got to where it is. So when you're looking at a Professor Shakespeare, it's not a sentient Shakespeare. You didn't take Shakespeare's brain from the ground and actually check the DNA of it and rebuild his brain. You took all the publicly accessible,

what was written down information and amalgamated it into what would be the closest thing. But effectively, you know, would you say you're creating, like, an amazing interactive Google of Shakespeare rather than Shakespeare himself because you're not literally recreating who he was? Does that make sense? You said that very well again.

Exactly. I'm on a roll today, apparently. Yeah, I mean, you know, I had conversations with Socrates, with Julie. And it was like I was talking to him. He said, let me tell you about me. My mother was a midwife, and my father was a stonemason. And I was born here, and I did there, and I was doing this.

And this is how I got interested in philosophy was born here, and I did there, and I was doing this, and this is how I got interested in philosophy, and this is how I developed this, and this is my thinking on that. So he's having a conversation with us, and we can then stop and say, Socrates, what do you mean by wise ignorance? That sounds weird, and he explains it to us.

And Julius is sitting there, and he came across this word called... Labyrinthine. Labyrinthine. Labyrinthine. He used that word and Julie said, what does he mean by labyrinthine? I said, professor, just a minute, you've used the word labyrinthine and I'm sitting here with Julie. Julie's my slave.

And he never, he never blinked because in, because in Athens they had slaves. I said, my slave Julie doesn't know what the word labyrinthine means. He said, oh, I'm sorry, Julie, picked up her name like that. Of course, it was all programmed. I'm sorry, Julie, let me explain that to you. Labyrinthine means it's very complex and you don't have an answer. You're getting lost within the complexity. And that's what labyrinthine means it's very complex and you don't have an answer. You're getting lost within the complexity and that's what labyrinthine means.

And you should get a sense of, well, give me an example of that. And he responds right back. So these people are, you know, you can get fanciful about this, like these are human creations, they're not, it's all AI. But believe me, they feel. They feel.

They feel a sense. When I was talking... Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Socrates, I got to know him better than any professor who's been talking to me about Socrates. Now, I've heard professors talk about Socrates, and they're talking, but there's something magical about this appearance, this picture. It's a bit like a movie

You know, you know that these people don't really exist But you can get moved by them if they're good and these these professors will be really great It's an immersive experience in a way. It was definitely immersive I mean you're talking to the man and and he is he's giving it to you straight. No, no, no no biases It's just pure education Do you worry about? He's giving it to you straight. No biases. It's just pure education. Do you worry about the death of human interaction? And it's not just this, it's everything. I mean, we see the speed of light

with which AI is moving now, but this is an amazing creation. And yeah, we just spent a half hour or whatever talking about all the issues, for example, right now with regular colleges and the people that work there sometimes. But isn't there something to be said about the ability for student and teacher to form an actual

student-teacher relationship that goes beyond what technology could possibly replace? You're right about that, you're right. Human interaction, you can't beat it. I mean, we think Zoom is great, and it is, but when you get people together in a room, it's a different dynamic. And it's the same thing with education.

What we're going to do to help with that, every student that comes on is gonna have a study partner. And so they will develop a relationship, a human relationship with another student. So, student on student. Student on student, so that will be required. The other thing, we'll have meetups in the major cities around the world,

whether it's Los Angeles or Delhi or Shanghai, wherever they will get enough students, they can meet up and talk to each other. So these aren't gonna be physical campuses at all, it's all online? No, it's everything is totally virtual or online, yeah. Do you think that loses some of the experience though, in the sense that part of going to college is,

you know, living away from home for the first time for most of us? Actually being in a different environment, being in your own ecosystem in that way. Do you feel like that gets lost? Absolutely. You know, there's going to be benefits to both of the systems. Our system will have benefits such as completely accessible anywhere in the world and an affordable price to anybody. There'll be no student debt. No debt.

No debt whatsoever. The tuition will be, in America, a few hundred dollars a month, but in Rwanda or in Africa, we'll lower the tuition to that particular country. So it'll fluctuate in the world. The idea is to get tens of millions of students all over the world. Anybody can do it at a price they can afford. So that's the benefit of this,

but the interaction that you can get from going to a great university, mixing with other students in your, that will continue and should continue and is great. But there's not, most people cannot take the time, they don't have the money to travel across the country and get into student houses and pay tens of thousands of dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to go to these great

Kinds, but they can afford a few hundred dollars a month a car payment if you like Yes, and this will be this kind of education now How many years by the way would like is it a two-year degree four-year degree? It's a four-year degree, but probably could be done in two or three years. Mm-hmm because one-on-one is just so much much faster. Oh or three years because one-on-one is just so much much faster. Oh so it's literally gonna be one-on-one with the AI and then well maybe two-on-one if you have the student partner with you. No it'll be one-on-one. I guess you could have a partner with you. You could sit down with somebody else but mostly it's one-on-one and you're going through an exact designed process to learn. I mean

Socrates is gonna teach you what all the essentials of his philosophy, that's the other thing. We're not gonna be teaching fluff or nice to know, so it will be the essentials of each professor. If they wanna go on and study and they wanna do some other things, that's fine. But this is gonna be straight education,

just if you like, just the facts, ma'am, just what it is. And they'll go from one step to another in a four-year program done in two or three years. So Socrates grades your papers, grades your tests and things like that. Your one-on-one AI partner does all that. We're gonna be competency-based.

So rather than grade-based, you don't advance until you've demonstrated mastery. And there will be a constant competency check as you go through. Let me be sure that you understand the lesson that we've just done. Explain to that in your own words. Now Socrates actually did with us. He said, what do you mean? What do you understand by the word wise ignorance?

And I answered him in my own words and he said, no, that's not right. Let me explain it again to you. So he explained it again to me because I had misstated it. So there'll be those competency checks as they go through the program. And what you'll get at the end of it

is I'm mastered these knowledge and skills rather than a series of grades on the crown ship. There'll be a list of these knowledge and skills rather than a series of grades on the track concept There'll be a list of these knowledge and skills So it's not as like is this going to be scheduled in the sense that you have class at 9 a.m Or you have class at 12 p.m And it's gonna go this long for a semester or is it more just at your own speed work with the AI? It'll be accessible 24 7, but there will be some structure in terms of how much time they need to spend.

You know, it'll be full-time students. They need to put in so much time online to keep moving. And if they're faltering, then we will intercede and say, you're having a problem, is there something going on? So we'll have a student guide who will check in with you and say, have you run into a problem? We've missed you, come on back in.

So we'll keep them moving and motivated. It's such a different concept. Like the way it's, you're basically, you bought the land and you're tearing down the house and you're building something entirely new. I don't wanna tear anything down. I don't want to tear anything down. I don't want to tear anything down. I just want to create a new system.

If you like, the University of the Future accessible to everyone in the world at an affordable price with a rigorous university level, which is constructed and designed in a way to use the most effective pedagogy, big word pedagogy, but it just means the art and science of teaching. And every one of our professors will learn the most effective way of teaching,

the fastest way, the most effective way, because they'll know how to do these. Like they'll connect theory with the practical. So you don't just talk about theory all the time if you're into philosophy or economics, and so on, you talk in practical terms too. They will define very precisely all of the terms and all the words very rigorously.

So they'll know what the pace of the student is, for instance, they're not gonna talk too fast or move too fast with the concepts. They'll take one concept at a time and then the next concept. And that's it. They won't be rushing through as many professors do.

After a professor talks, you say, what the hell was that all about? You're lost. These guys will not let you do that. They'll go step by step, very exact at your pace. If you're very smart, they'll go faster. If you're a little slower, they'll go a little slower for you. And they'll teach in your language.

You know, if you want to be taught in Japanese or Chinese or French or German, you can do that too. What professor could do that? You can do that. You can't do that. Yeah. So, does, like, Socrates keep his Greek accent in Chinese? Now, there was a challenge. What does So? See sound like we couldn't have him speaking Greek We can't have him speaking American or English. So that's the best we came up with it isn't bad

I liked all of them. I'm not liking the Franklin one though Ben didn't sound like that Well that we have a challenge. He was a challenge, you know, he's an Englishman basically Listen, we claim him here respectfully Well, we debated that. His son actually was the governor of Jersey. That's neither here nor there, but we claim him in America. That's not a very special achievement. All right, Carl. You watch it. I got a couple guns out there, pal. But you know, the thing is that it was a challenge to get the right accent, even the right images. And we went through thousands of different images and finally found the one.

And we say, you know, is it perfect? No. Is it the best we can come up with all of the different things? Yes. How does he speak? Well, he doesn't speak, so we do that. What's the oversight of these like? It's an AI, obviously, it's brilliant and can amalgamate all these things that a human being can't do at any rate,

but you guys are running the college, you and your team. Do you get replays of any session that happens between an AI and a student? And how do you assess like the AI's perceived performance versus what you were expecting it to do and student performance? Like how does that all work? Well, there's gonna be feedback from students.

We'll challenge the students as we go through with these competency checks, have they mastered it before they move on, so that will all be recorded, but we'll also ask feedback, particularly now from our students, was the professor clear, did you understand it, were you working at the right pace?

So we'll get all that kind of feedback, like, don't like, too fast, too slow, and we'll fine tune it as we go through. Because this is all going to be quite innovative. And so we will build it until we perfect it. It's kind of cool that people that you clearly have been inspired by, influenced by, insert word here, are the characters that you're creating in your own educational cinematic universe now. You ever think about, like, the younger you,

when you first find these people, even imagining being able to create them later? No, that would have been a dream beyond a dream to be able to think about this, But you're right, you know, whoever these characters are in history, like I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand, we've created Ayn Rand. We'll have her as part of our professor,

one of our professors. And so we'll have all the great, you know, there's thousands of avatars who'll all be, you all be arranged in degree programs. So there can be like 30 or 40 different professors in a program in philosophy, for instance, or in management. You can have a dozen or two dozen different professors that cover each aspect of it. So you're going to have a diversity of ideas drawing from an all-time, all-star team

of great thinkers. Yeah, an all-star team of great thinkers, you're absolutely right. And it'll be there, we're just gonna do straight things. I mean, we'll also have Karl Marx there with Ayn Rand. And we may have them debate it. You're gonna have a professor Karl Marx? I'm afraid so.

Good for you, no, I'm proud of you. We've gotta do that. No, it's gotta professor, Karl Marx? I'm afraid so. Good for you. No, I'm proud of you. We've got to do that. It's pure education, it's straight education. And you'll hear it from Karl Marx. And he's very seductive. He's very believable. And as you pointed out a little while ago,

this utopia vision is very seductive. Wow, any young people say, oh, that's great. Why don't we all go get along and we all share everything and so forth? Yeah, what a wonderful world. All these billionaires can give their wealth away to me. Oh, that sounds good. In practice, that never works.

In practice, it doesn't work because it's against human nature. Human nature rules. We are what we are. We are who we are. and we pursue our own life. Your life is different from my life. Your goals and dreams and values, in many cases, vary from mine.

Now, we say our things in common, but the things that we don't have, or the differences are massive, and we are all different. So it's a beautiful ideal, you know, perhaps, but it's against beautiful ideal, perhaps, but it's against human nature and can never work and always ends up in a terrible place.

And there's so many examples around it. North Korea, China. I just had a North Korean defector sitting in your chair for five and a half hours the other day. Wow. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, it was like listening to 1984

through a human being who lived it. Horrific. Crazy, which by the way, could get, that was you guys? Lauren, shout out to Lauren. But it's that that is I am intrigued by the fact that you are still representing, creating people that may even represent ideas that you completely disagree with to give a full well rounded education because that was going to be my next question. even represent ideas that you completely disagree with to give a full well-rounded education because that was going to be my next question.

How do you – you're creating AIs that are based on these people to focus on education of the facts. You said like just the facts, man. So in a way, on the one hand, you're trying to eliminate human opinion and I mean this in a good way in the sense that there's no Political bend on the other hand you are invariably still going to technically run into that without the human emotion of politics in it Through the ideas that someone like an Ayn Rand or a Karl Marx is teaching in their actual lectures so you're okay with the idea of Students being able to decide for themselves without being say no pun intended

lectured at how to think. You're absolutely right about that. And this is a major concern because what we're going to be doing right from the beginning is fostering independent thinking, critical thinking by the student. It will be all the way through this. There's two guides. One is Prometheus, the guide who brought enlightenment to the world from the gods, is the Titan, and Athena, goddess of wisdom.

So, you can choose the male or the female version. But they're both, um, uh, intellectual guides all the way through. And they will ask you, what do you think about the difference between Plato and Aristotle? Because they came at a different, completely different at the end of it, you know. What do you think about Karl Marx and Ayn Rand?

Do you believe this? Do you have evidence for it? Because there's gonna be three things, three values, which we will foster. And this, you can call it a bias if you like, but it isn it a bias if you like, but it isn't a bias, reason, we will inculcate, foster,

as much as objectivity, looking at facts, looking at actificence, asking questions, and also pursuit of truth. So reason, objectivity, and truth, those will be all the way through, and we will inculcate, big word, inculcate that with our students, and that'd be challenged to think.

What do you think about that? Give me an example of it. Do you think that that is true? What evidence can you provide for that? Do you think this Karl Marx theory, this utopian world works? Can you point to any example? Can you point to a country where this has ended up

where people are doing well? Can you point to a country where it didn't work? Why do you think it didn't work? Why do you think it did work? So the students will be constantly challenged. One of our key values, we want to graduate students who are independent thinkers, who've been over several years and it'll take years to develop that attitude of why I said said hold on I want to see the evidence I want to see if there's real real credible proof for this and so those will be our graduates new intellectuals if you like mm-hmm yeah and I and I hope that actually comes to

fruition those three pillars are I think that's something everyone can get behind it's just been there's these things that happen in society now on either end of the political spectrum where, I've heard examples with education as much other than the high-level college stuff we talked about, but, you know, terms will be thrown around like critical thinking or independent thought, or, you know, drawing your own conclusions.

And they're thrown around by people who are saying that to others under the assumption that they're going to come to the same conclusions that they themselves have come to. And when they don't, they're like, oh no, not like that. And I've seen it, I've seen it on both sides of the spectrum and I'm like, you know, looking at you and creating a system like this, I hope it turns out that way where it's like,

hey, we're just educating these students. we've created these avatars that are doing it well. And if a student walks away from Karl Marx's class and thinks there's some things of that that they think might be right, hey, that's all right. I think they're going to be wrong, but that's their free will to think that. That's exactly right. I mean, there may be some people came out back and say, I prefer Ayn Rand or I prefer Karl Marx rather than Ayn Rand. Hope not, but it can happen. But we're gonna, it's just, again,

our mantra is pure education. And you're gonna make sure you code Karl Marx right, you don't make him an idiot because you wanna make him an idiot? You know. If I see Karl Marx with Down syndrome, I'm gonna know you're in on it. No, no, it will be. It will have to be. You know, it'll have to be. We'll have people watching over

our shoulder. We will have an academic advisory committee to keep us honest. Okay, I like that. And we are looking for high-level advisors. Maybe you can suggest some advisors. I want advisory team committee and we're looking for advisors. That would be cool. What are you looking for specifically like like specific fields or I'm looking for obviously academic advisors, high level really, like you were talking about singer. I'd like him. Singer.

Singer. Yeah, you're talking about Pinker. Pink, Steven Pinker. He's doing something I haven't looked at in a while. He's doing something that there's a new university I want to say down in Austin or something that he's involved in that one. Yeah, I wouldn't mind some of the people down in Austin, you know, but they're using old technology. They should have been, they should be involved with what I'm doing, because I think they'd love to do that. I'd like to get a bunch of those people as advisors. I want academic advisors, I want marketing advisors,

I want tech advisors, I want management advisors. I want anybody that says this is a great idea, I want to be part of it. It's not gonna be a money making, it'll be a non-profit. I decided to make it a non-profit. Oh, you made a non-profit. How does that?

It's a non-profit, you made a nonprofit? How does that... It's a nonprofit, yeah. So how does that work? You... I mean, when people hear nonprofit, they go, okay, no one really makes money, but you still put out salaries to people. Oh, we'll make a fortune. Oh, yeah, we'll make a lot of money.

It'll make... For private companies, it'll make a lot of money. It'll make a lot of money, and it'll be very profitable with millions of students, but it'll just but the money will get poured back into education throughout the world. So you're not really taking it home in that sense? I don't want any money out of it.

In fact, I'm pouring money into it. I'm going to finance it personally, put the money into it. That's one of the uses of my money. My legacy, if you like, my big dream is this and that's what I'm putting all of them well All of my money a lot of my money my major part of my money into this and making it work Now I expect it to be a very quote profitable, but the money won't go to anybody It'll go to an be a nonprofit corporation. Yeah now what makes you You know, you've been in business for a long time.

Like I said, I thought you were way younger than you were. It's really impressive. But like what, what makes you want to pour your heart and soul into such a huge unforeseen endeavor like this at this point, especially, and I think I'd love to get your thoughts on what this was like behind the scenes, especially after you successfully built up so many colleges and then had the government come after you and make claims against you. Maybe if you wouldn't mind giving some background on that for people so they understand what happened there.

Okay. Well, you've got two questions there. Let me, maybe I'll start. There was a campaign started about 15 years ago against private for-profit colleges. It just so happened that my colleges became non-profit, which they didn't like either. But there was a campaign to close down, Crippling closed down private career colleges.

They closed down Corinthian, they closed down ITT, and a bunch of others. They ended up by closing about half of the colleges and universities. And this was a socialistic activist campaign because they didn't like profit in education, and they didn't like profit-making schools, like curriculums, going into competition

with the community colleges. Because a lot of the students and the competition with the community colleges. Because a lot of the students and the teachers came from community colleges, and they felt that we were stealing their students and stealing their professors. We were not unionized, community colleges are unions. So the teachers unions, the education unions

came after us too, along with the politicians. I see why he's using AIs now. No unions for them. Yeah, no unions. That's right. No unions, that's right. But there was the likes of Maxine Waters. She is the most... She's a real beauty. She is a lovely lady, but she's an avid enemy. She hates private career colleges.

I mean, she goes into a crazy... She becomes a man... a crazy lady, even even crazier when she talks about private career colleges. And Elizabeth Warren is another lady that hates private career colleges. And so they've had these campaigns across the country for about 15 years, and they closed down half of all the schools, and we were part of that program. We had great schools, happy students,

but they would of course say we were terrible schools and unhappy students, but I know that. But there's so many lies being told today. You know, it's just Julian, it's everywhere. What is true, what is false? And that's one of the reasons I want to do this great university, because we'll be pursuit of truth. And we will teach our students how to find the truth,

and we'll define the truth. It's will teach our students how to find the truth. And we'll define the truth. It's not that hard to know what the truth is. You know, you just define it carefully. You know how you go about finding out what is true. And we will foster that with all of our students. And this is a vision I have. I mean, this is, you asked me what was my motivation.

Yes. Education, education, education. On a personal level, when we know stuff, we can do stuff. When you know you can be successful, when you know you can become happy. But you gotta know before you can do anything. You have to know, and it's all come back to education on individuals, communities, and any countries.

In fact, the world, if you wanna make the world a better place, and I do, I don't know why, because I don't own the world, but for some, you know, you get that. Not yet. Not yet, that's right, I'm working on it. But you know, you care about the world, you care about life, and I've seen the world, so I know what people live.

I've seen Calcutta with millions of people living on the street. I know I've been to Rwanda recently. I love Rwanda, but it's one of the poorest countries in the world, but the great people. You know, and I care about that, and for some reason or other, and I'd like to bring education, real education,

credible, honest, honest education. Now there's a word for you, honest education, telling it as it really is from the individual people, teaching their works, their books, their lectures, authentically, without any opinion, without any bias, no indoctrination. And that's, I think that inspires me. I love to see that. This is the... If I can have create, when I create it, it's not if.

When I create this great university with thousands of professors, millions of students worldwide, that'll bring a smile to my face, and it'll make me happier. When did you, like at what point in your life did you have a moment where you sat back in your chair and said to yourself, you know what, I really am happy. I remember a time when I was so happy

that I couldn't fall asleep. It's really weird. And I was just, I was just feeling so good. Something so good, and I just was so alive, and I laid there, I just couldn't sleep, just so happy. How old were you? Oh, this is actually about 10 years ago. Then something bad happened.

What happened? I don't know, I don't know. As I get bad, good and bad things happen all the time. Come on, it goes up, it goes down. But the core of happiness, I don't know when I would say I'm happy, I've had happy times and lower times, but happiness goes up up, it goes down. But the core of happiness, I don't know when I would say, you know, I'm happy, I've had happy times and lower times. But happiness goes up and down as we coast through life.

And for most people, it stays at a certain level as they go through life. And then you hit a road, you hit a cloud or a storm or something happens, you can start to decline. And sometimes it can be a steep decline and sometimes it recovers, but sometimes it doesn't. And that happens to some people. Or you can, now, you're trajectory,

if I had to read you, your life is up and down, up and down, but you're climbing. Slowly, imperceptibly, little by little, but you're getting happier. You're happier today than you were three or four years ago Well, that's easy to do. Yeah, right. Okay, so you're on an up you're on an upward Upward slope. Mm-hmm. And the idea of this book, which you don't talk about come on talk about my book I need to sell books again. I need money on the car. I need the money. We got to fund them

All right. All right, please. More jets, more helicopters. $25, yeah, it's available from Amazon. He needs a mansion in Rwanda that's gonna cost at least $20. Let's go. If you want a scholarship to buy the book, you can get something. So, that's the story of the book, you see,

because I didn't say to my friends, I want you to be happy. They were already happy. You're happy. And it already happy, you're happy. And it's like all about increasing happiness. And we can all increase our happiness, whatever level we have now, and we're all at different levels.

Like if I were to pin your level, you're a pretty high happiness level, somewhere between interest and enthusiasm. You're not a content guy. If I said to you, you're content. Yeah, you're not content. Higher than contentment. Contentment is a sort of a, yeah, low level.

Yeah, I'm happy, hey, it's cool, you know, big deal. But it goes up from interest. I'm fascinated by life. Life is really interesting. And then you get to say, enthusiastic, I love what I'm doing. Life is great. And then it can even get to, I just love my life.

My life is working in every aspect. And you go on up the life to exhilaration, to ecstasy, or maybe serenity if you can reach those levels. But there are levels of happiness that we can go up. And there's also levels down, but let's just talk about it. You can increase your happiness, and that's the whole purpose of this experiment. Can my friends increase their happiness?

And if you'll let me take a break now, I promise to tell you the rest of the story. All right, real quick, we'll be right back. All right, we're back. You were just telling me off cam real fast, you got a Steve Jobs thing going on as well? Yeah, Steve Jobs about 40 years ago was talking about how he would love

to be able to talk to Aristotle and ask him a question and get an answer. And he thought sometime in the future, he said within his lifetime, but fortunately not there, we'll be able to do that. And now Steve Jobs' dream of being able to talk to Aristotle is now possible with this with this new technology We will create a perfect Aristotle

And he'll answer all of your questions I need professor Steve Jobs to and I need professor Steve Jobs and professor Aristotle talking to each other while they're teaching me We'll do that for you. All right. Okay, I might join this university Good bucks a month. I mean, why not? All right. Okay. I might join this university. A few hundred bucks a month, I mean, why not? Feel a little Socrates in my life.

Well, I'll have you as an advisor. Would you like to be an advisor? I would love to be an advisor. It's actually, I'm very passionate about seeing if there are ways we can fix the education system because personally, like, I feel very fortunate. I feel like I had a great experience and I talked to a lot of people who didn't and I

completely understand that. So it's like man, if I could get however it happens, whatever the future education is, clearly you might be on to something here, but if I could get a translation of like the happiness level I had with my experience across a way wider part of the population who goes to college and they could get some results out of that in the real world. I mean, I think that'd be amazing. So I'm honored you'd ask, but yeah, I'd love to get involved.

You are recruited on the advisory committee. All right, very cool. Thank you, sir. We'll keep you informed. I'm the first YouTuber on there, right? Yeah, absolutely the first YouTuber. You didn't offer Tommy G? No, I didn't.

Fuck you, Tommy. I got it first. Sorry, Tommy. It wasn't my fault. I love that documentary you did with him. Did you really? Yes. Yeah. He's one of my really good friends. He's a great guy. I had a really fun day with him and his team. He's a smart guy too. Very smart. Thoughtful, liked his team. We had a whole day together. Yeah, no, his team's, I mean, I'm biased, but they're the best, and they attack so many different wide-ranging stories, including many that a lot of other people

don't, you know, they're like afraid to cover or afraid to go on the ground to where it is and get it, and they do it in a way that makes it educational, entertaining, and sometimes even like, you know, comedic, where appropriate as well, and I just think, you know, comedic, where appropriate as well. And I just think, I think the world of what Tommy does, so it's cool.

You let him behind the doors for a day. Yeah, it was good. You took him on the chopper too? I took that, we put on a chopper for him. He liked that. He liked that coming on the chopper, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if they have those in Milwaukee. Right? Maybe not. It's like, no, I've never landed there before.

But we were, before we went to the break, we were talking about the happiness levels and everything you were talking about, you know, content is kind of like a lower level of it. And then towards the I guess towards the top is more like people who are constantly desiring to go farther. And I think the catch 22 with that can be what we talked about earlier where you know you get to a point where you're very happy where you're at but you need more you need more and you never you can fall into that trap of not enjoying where you are right.

So you kind of got to have a real conversation with yourself I would imagine at all times to have that real conversation with yourself, I would imagine, at all times, to have that perspective, right? Exactly. But it's an ongoing, gradual, little by little increase. And this is what I see you doing. There'll be upswings, big swings, and downswings, and so forth.

But gradually, your level of happiness is increasing. And you're talking to a point where you get to a point where you're loving life and happiness is a successful state of life, just not financially successful, but you have a family, you have relationships, you have your health, you have all the things in your life working very successfully, that's also happiness. And you can always get more success in different ways.

You can get happiness in different ways, different intensities, different levels. One of the things I heard you talking with Tommy G about was at some point you had a near death experience, and that changed your perspective. What happened there? Well, that really did change things. I was flying, and the plane had just taken off,

and we're climbing for altitude. The engines are very noisy. I'm sitting at the front of the planes, and suddenly there was this massive explosion. Kaboom. The whole plane shook, and I thought the whole back of the plane had been blown off. I mean, it was so sad. And then after that noise of the engines, total silence.

Nothing. No air conditioning noise. Nothing at all. And eerily, the plane continued to climb. And it was like there was some hand, like pulling us up. But then, of course, gravity took over, and the plane started to dive to the ground. And I'm diving down the ground, gravity took over, and the plane started to dive to the ground. And I'm diving down the ground, looking out there, and we're seeing the houses down below,

and I just knew I was gonna die. I mean, I wasn't even... It was just that there was nothing I could do about it. I'm in a plane, diving to the ground, I'm gonna die. The flight attendant came up, and he opened up this thing, and he said, ladies and gentlemen, we've had a technical problem. That's exactly what he said, I swear.

And then he said, we're heading back to the airport. I said, no, dude, we're heading straight to the ground. And, um, well, you're gonna have to read the book if you're gonna find out whether I lived or died from that happening. We were heading right for the ground. I'm talking to an AI right now. Yeah, this is the... I'm an avatar. Yeah.

So that got me thinking about the people in my world. Now, rather than schools and universities and churches and what, in my world, I had my friends. I had two professors who taught and coached me. I had my employees, former employees and current employees. I had a housekeeper, had an assistant that I had, I had a driver, all of the people that I believed had helped me become successful and happier.

I was very grateful to them. Gratitude's a very powerful emotion, you know, and I have that emotion with the people that have helped me become successful. So I put them in my will, and then I started to think about them after this near-death experience and said, you know, I could have been dead and they would be getting all of this money

and I wouldn't be alive to see it. So that changed my perspective on it. And so I decided not to wait until I died that I would then bring these people in one at a time and say, look, I'm very grateful for what you've done for me. You've helped me in this way. You've done this. I would not have been successful and not as happy was it not for what you did. And I explained to them what they did.

So I said, you're in my will. And I told them how much and they said, oh, that's wonderful. And they said, yeah, but there's a problem. They said, what do you mean a problem? I said, well, I plan to live until I'm 120. And they said, well, that is a problem. And I said, buddy, I'm only making 80.

Yeah. So I said, the other thing is I'd be dead, and I wouldn't be able to see you enjoying it. And so you would begin to wonder. And I said, look, I have the money now. So I'm going to bring it forward and give you the money now. And that created a big emotional reaction. All that money now, are you kidding? Is this for real? Am I dreaming? So, you know, they were very profoundly affected by it.

And I said, yes. But look, I want to be sure that this money is really going to have a good effect for you. I want you to increase your happiness with this money. I don't want you to just be overwhelmed by it because money can be a problem if you don't know what to do with it. And so I said, I wanna plan on what you're gonna do. And they said, a plan? What do you mean a plan?

What kind of plan? I said, I want you to write a happiness plan. They said, well, what's a happiness plan? I said, I'll hire a coach, a happiness coach, who will then teach you what it means to become happier. Then once you have the plan, you've done the planning with your spouse, with your friends, whoever you do the planning,

then I'll send you the money, all of it at one time. So they wrote up the plan and the plans are in the book, samples of the plans are in the book. When I got the plan, I read it over, not to prove it, but to just see that they'd given it thought, and I sent them the money on it. And then the experiment was, what happened? Did these people increase their happiness? How did they go about it?

And the answer is yes, they increased their happiness. Some incredibly, some incredibly, big changes. Others, but everybody increased it to some degree. Because they were doing things with it actively, they required them investing their time and their efforts and their happiness in it, is that what you would say? Exactly. They had to, this forced them to say,

oh, I need a happiness plan. That means I've got to decide to increase my happiness. And so once you make that decision, I'd like to be happier. I'd like to increase my happiness. No so once you make that decision, I'd like to be happier. I'd like to increase my happiness. No matter how happy you are now, I'd like some more of this stuff. It's good, it feels good.

I love being happy and I want more of it. But you need a plan. And most people, I've never met anybody that had a happiness plan before. I've never heard of that before. Yeah, so this is, and so this idea of creating this happiness planning, and in a sense, the money I gave them

was a happiness grant. So a happiness grant, happiness coach, on brand. Happiness plan. On brand. Yeah, we got the brand, right? So that's what happened, and then they went off and did their happiness activities, or happiness habits, you develop some certain habits to that.

And it worked. It was an experiment that paid off. So clearly something good to that came on the other side and it gave you some, with time to think about it, it gave you some much needed perspective on how you could pay forward the things you already wanted to pay forward. But going back to that moment where the plane's sinking,

you're this really successful guy, you've been a go-getter your whole life, on the move, on the move, on the move, someone who tries to take control of situations, and I mean that in a good way. And yet, you're on a plane as it's sinking to the ground, and you're completely out of control, and it all might be ending. What is that?

What is... Like, did you resign yourself to that? Or what were the thoughts going through your head? You know, it was really weird. We're diving to the ground, total silence, no engines, no screaming, nobody seemed to be screaming. I think everybody said, there's nothing we can do about it. They completely resigned.

I mean, you're diving to the ground, okay? We're driving very steeply. And you know, you're diving to the ground, okay? We're driving very steeply. And, you know, you see the houses down below, because it was like evening time. You saw the lights of the things. And then you thought, there's nothing you can do. And I just said, oh, crap, I'm gonna miss my meeting, because I was gonna go to a meeting.

I said, oh, crap, I'm gonna miss my meeting. Well, this is the end. And it was, it was, there was nothing, nothing actually went on in my mind because there was nothing going on in the plane. There was nothing there, and there was nothing to even think about. You know, people think their life is gonna flash forward

and they were gonna think of this or think of that. There was no time to think about that. We were going down to the ground and we were gonna plunge into those houses right below us. And then we didn't. It was a miracle. But shall I tell you or shall I make people read the book? You can do whatever, it's your show.

You can do whatever you want. It's your show. I think people are gonna get the book anyway because there's a lot in here, like that's one little story, like looking through, I gotta read this myself, but looking through the table of contents and everything and basically like the system that you're giving out

from someone who's actually done it. I mean, that's the other thing. Like you've lived it and done it and done it over and over again. I think a lot of people can get a ton of value from that. For sure. Yeah, yeah. So? You wanna tell it?

Yeah, tell it. What I found out later is that the engine had blown up. That's what had happened. The engine had blown up. Bl's what had happened. The engine had blown up. Blown up. Dead, gone. They called it a catastrophic failure. The engine had blown up. And what the pilot had done intentionally

was dive to the ground to get airspeed so he could then level out and glide over the homes. So he got right above the houses and then made a sharp turn and was gliding above the houses without engines, nothing. So he's gliding right across the rooftops. Must have scared the crap out of the people in the homes. But he's right flying over the top there. And then suddenly we heard this whirring sound,

sound of an engine coming on. So what they'd done is to get the airspeed, and then they were igniting the last remaining engine. Had one engine, was able to fly around and around and around, get altitude, and so went back to the airport. Whoa. That's a great pilot. Oh, I tell you what, when we got off the plane,

you know, he came up the front there, I said, thank you for flying Delta. Thank you for flying Delta. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, thank you for flying Delta. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, Captain, thank you for saving our lives. I'm flying private for the rest of my life. I'm leaving you peasants. And I was, wow.

That's great. You lived the real life Denzel from flight, except it didn't go upside down. You just found a way to... I did it, yeah. And the pilot, you're right. That pilot was a hero. It was amazing. That's very cool.

Yeah. So, and how many years ago was that again? About 10 years ago. All right. So not that long ago either. No, no, not too far. And I did this experiment like about 2020, and it took me a year or two, and then it took me three years to write the book about it.

Mm. What was that? Were you writing this... Like, did you have this outlined ahead of time, or was it one of those things you just started writing? No, I had no intention of writing the book. No intention. I mean, it didn't even occur to me. I'm satting down with some people

that are telling me about what it, uh, what the grant made to them, what they'd done with the money and so on. And they said, Carl, you've got to write a book. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said, no, really, you've gotta write a book. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they said, no, really, you ought to write a book. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I wrote the book.

And I'm glad I did write the book because what I would really like to do seriously, I think people that have something, possessions, money, wisdom, or whatever, it doesn't have to be about money. There's no need to wait. You can do it now. Sit down with these people and give them a prequest.

Now when I started doing this, I thought, oh, it's a prequest. So I looked in the dictionary, not in the dictionary. So Google knows everything, right? So I looked on Google. It knows a lot. I said prequest. It said it's a rock group.

So they didn't have a prequest. It's not in Google. So this idea of the bequest, which you bring forward and make into a prequest, like you give them the bquest to the people now. So I was flying blind, so to speak, after the airplane. Really flying blind, and so I had to figure out how to do it, and there's a process that you do it.

You don't just dump the money on people. I didn't do that, I was very thoughtful about it. I sat down with them, I told them why I was doing it, I told them here's the plan. I wanna get this thing so that it doesn't hurt you, that you make the highest and best use of this money. And I want you to use it for your own happiness. I want you to give it away to, you know, whomever.

I don't want you to give it to charity. Nothing wrong with charity. It's fine, and do that by all means if you want to. But this is for you because what you've done for me, I wanna do for you. But this is for you because what you've done for me, I want to do for you. That's and you know, you look at the the prime example of like people who get into found money or something, right? Like think of the lottery winners and all the horror stories you hear about people when they're brought into money that like wasn't there as Was given to them or something. It's a it's a money is a tough thing as we were talking about earlier to put between people

So to be able to do that at the scale you seem to have done it with a bunch of different people in your life friends family and do it in a strategic way where It appears to me based on what you're saying It didn't create any resentment and most people used it for good so much so that you wrote a book about it That's pretty remarkable because that is I would like this to be the rule But as really the exception to the rule when you look at that subject matter. You know, you're right, and that's why I would like this book.

I'd like this book to be selling. Um, I'm honestly not in it for the money, although that's fine. But the idea, I don't want to get the idea into the world of not waiting. If you've got the money, the possessions, and it can be money, it can be a collection, it can be something that you're not using,

don't put it, well, do put it in the will, but you can also, no need to wait, you can do it now. Whatever it is, it could be artwork or a home that you're not using, gift it now, not when you're dead, and enjoy it. And the thing is, you know, do you think this made me a little happier? You know, like my... Oh, actually writing it out? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I experienced that. You know, my friendships are really wonderful. I got at least 20 really good friends there. That's awesome. Yeah, and this is like cathartic to do it too, in a way. Oh, yeah, it clarifies it for me. Yeah, you really get to look back on it. Do you think that there's such thing as people

being born winners or losers, or do you think we all have the ability? We all have the ability. There's no such thing as a born loser or that. What you need to do is go back to thinking and planning. Reading, thinking, and planning. Read books, talk to people, do the thinking work, and do the planning. And that's one of the things about this book.

This book is not just about theory. There's a work book, a work plan in the back of the book, so you can go step by step to increase your own happiness. So this is not just for people who have money. It's for people who, anybody that wants to increase their happiness, there's a step-by-step plan in the book. Alright, so everyone's gonna have to go check that out. We'll have the link in the description.

I got one last thing to ask you today before we gotta get you over to Soho House. Right now, a lot of what you've looked at in your life is this relationship philosophically between the private sector and the government and entrepreneurs being able to go earn what they can to create jobs and stuff like that versus some of the, I guess, like check to the balance that goes too far sometimes with government. We've talked about it today.

Right now, we have an interesting tether tech going back and forth where we have a guy running the country and Trump, who came from the business world and understands that, naturally still has to play the political process when you're running for the highest office in the land. So that includes people coming around, funding them. And in this last cycle, he developed a very close relationship with Elon Musk, who's the richest guy in the country, from the private sector that also happens to do government contracts and stuff like that. And we see the two of them fighting it out in public, which I don't really think is good for anyone.

But like, do you think that there is a part of it where one, how do I want to say this? You want the free market to exist, You want capitalism to run the system. But one has to have the other, meaning you do still have to have a check to the balance with the government. It just can't get too big. And so when you see someone like Elon come in who maybe wanted to actually have control and get whatever he wanted to have someone like Trump being like, hey, no, you actually can't do this, this or that

might actually be a positive part of the system working. Does that make sense? I think we're observing the system not really working. I think it's malfunctioning. I'm very sad to see the breakup between Musk and Trump. Not really surprising. I thought it could go there, you know, if you had to think about it. You know, these are two big guys and, you know, Elon really wants, I think, the best for the country. He just wants to get rid of waste and so forth. And he's a businessman. He said, there's too much going on here, which is corrupt, too much here, which is wasteful.

It's not fair to the taxpayer to spend all this money. And I think Trump also knows that, but he also now knows what is politically possible. So his hands are tied. He can't tell Congress or the Senate or the House what to do. He can persuade them, but he can only get done what is possible to get done, not what he likes to get done. Elon would like to get these things done,

but it's not politically possible, so I think he's gonna start a new thing. But government definitely has a role. But the role should be, get out of the freaking way. Let people do what they're gonna do, honestly make a profit, honestly make a good product or service for those that they, their clients and their customers,

and protect the good guys. Don't go after the bad, the good guys. Go after bad guys. Right. Support the good guys. And it's become corrupted and abused now where the government unfortunately is attacking its own citizens illegitimately. And that's what is that, that's the weaponization

of the government. Happened with the Department of Education. The Education Department is a disgrace. They've actually hurt education, not helped it at all. How so? Like, when you say that, what are the main issues? Well, look at the scores. Look at the scores in elementary schools. They've been declining ever since, for 50 years, since the Department of Education was started. Look at what the Department of Education

has done to my schools. Look what they've done to ITT and a bunch of other good schools, good schools teaching good programs. Were they perfect schools? Of course not. Is Harvard and Yale perfect? Of course they're not. None of them are perfect.

But they were decent at core. And they were good people doing the best they could to educate students. And they were closed down by the Department of Education, being manipulated by politicians. And that's when it becomes corrupt. And finally, but what I would say, Julie, yes, there is a good role for government,

and you need government. And, but it's, they've got a limited role, support the good guys, and take care of the bad guys, protect us from the bad guys. That's their role. Yeah, and you make what should be the obvious point to all of us that I completely agree with. Go after bad guys, don't go after good guys.

And sometimes, you know, we talk about where people could get some of these, some of this cynical, this cynical feeling on society when when you see things happen where good people get attacked. You look at that and you go, the system's not working, or you look at something even like high level, like if you're just looking at elites versus Main Street, it's like you see a guy like Epstein and they're like, oh no He didn't know there was actually nothing there and people know at home that that's bullshit But the government tries to say no, this is this is totally the case and so people become disillusioned and that leads to a lot Of these a lot of these attitudes that we were, you know dissecting earlier But you know I think it's great when guys like you can kind of lay out their plan on how they've done things and accomplish things and provide hope for people to be able to do that themselves. And so everyone should check out your book. We got that down below. Way to go. Thanks for thanks for the plug, dude. Appreciate it. Thanks so much for coming, Carl. It's great to talk with you. Yeah, I enjoyed it. All right. Take care. You too. Everybody else. You know what it is. Give it a thought get back to me

Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video They're both a huge huge help And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X those links are in my description below Discover the magic of bet MGM casino where the excitement is always on deck the magic of BetMGM Casino, where the excitement is always on deck. Pull up a seat and check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer. From roulette to blackjack, watch as a dealer hosts your table game and live chat with them throughout your experience to feel like you're actually at the casino.

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