Julian Dorey Podcast - #362 - Area 52 on Bob Lazar, David Grusch, DARPA & Underwater Anomalies | Chris Ramsay

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey WATCH CHRIS RAMSAY PART 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3fX5eeQrF3Nu8j9G3Ncszu?si=_eXiGHTdRbK7svHA_zpsMA (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Chris Ramsay is a world-renowned magician, UFO researcher & YouTuber. His second YouTube channel "Area52" is dedicated to investigations of UAP phenomena and anomalous experiences CHRIS LINKS: MAGIC YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrPUg54jUy1T_wII9jgdRbg AREA 52 YT: https://www.youtube.com/@Area52Investigations X: https://x.com/chrisramsay52 IG PERSONAL: https://www.instagram.com/chrisramsay52/ IG AREA 52: https://www.instagram.com/area52investigations/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 – Intro 00:30 — Remote Viewing Begins, Los Alamos Origins 04:25 – China & Russia Programs, U.S. Compartmentalization, Bob Lazar, Majestic 12, Aztec Crash 21:13 – Testing Lazar’s Claims, High Conviction, Element 115 34:37 – Area 51 Tests, Why Bob Quit, Test-Flight Incident, Wants Normal Life 42:37 – Grusch Claims, Farmers Over Lawmakers 56:34 – Underwater Craft, Nuclear Sites, DARPA?, 30-Year Tech Gap CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 362 - Chris Ramsay Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. A word? It's in my mind and my brain. All right, we're going to see if I can guess this word, okay? All right, look at me. I don't want to look at you.

Look at me. All right. Hold on. I'm going to write it weird so you can. Are you remote viewing this? Yes. Okay. So is this, tell me, is this, uh,

was this on your browser history recently? Was this? Yes or no? I'm not giving you anything. You can tell me, yes or no, is this on your browser history? I don't think so. Oh, okay. I think you would know.

I mean, I think about it. Have you ever been inside my head? Is this, well, I'm trying. Is this, um... It's about to be. This is kind of... I'm getting a... Is this wild?

This is a little wild, right? Like, wild, like it's nuts or wild like... No, not like it's nuts. Like out in the wild. I know you're giving me a clue, okay. No, no, I'm asking you, which one do you mean? Okay, hold on. There's a...

That's actually a very important. Hold on, hold on. There's a... There's a Z? Right? Okay, I think we know where we go. There's an E. There's a B.

There's an R. There's an A. I think we all know what this is. On the count of three, I want you to say it out loud. One, two, three. Ze, bro. Oh. That was good.

It's not it? No, but that was good. Close. Oh, my God. All right, that was good. I needed that. Oh, my God. All right.

Anyway, we're... Now, even where were we? I don't even remember... Oh, we were at Los Alamos. That's right. That's right. So stupid. This was like...

Like when I was just telling you before we took the break there, when I talked with Jesse, like his history on Los Alamos blows my mind. That was in episode 240. Like there's a whole fucking rabbit hole there. But the idea that we made something that could destroy ourselves. And then after that, because Los Alamos creates that, you know, the war ends as a result of that being used and, you know, Europe being taken care of. And then after that from, you know, the late 1940s through the present day, all these events happen. It's not to say we didn't have previous events like we were saying that were written down about aliens in the past or whatever, but there was this uptick and these patterns that formed, including a lot of these things, appearing where there are nukes or where there are places where this is held.

Not just nukes, high-powered radar. Moved this way, sorry. Yep. But yeah, yeah, keep going. Not just nukes, high-powered radar, even lasers. I mean, the tech that we're testing out in these test sites, obviously we're testing nukes, but there's so much other technology that's being tested there as well.

And people often forget that. It's like, that's where the cusp of new technology is coming from. Yeah. Right? So if you were to monitor this planet, like, that's where you would be, right? And so when people say, why is it only in America? First of all, we all know it's not only in America. But there is a significant amount in America. And part of that is due to the fact that America is the world's superpower in terms of like military and tech and as far

as we know. And so, you know, yeah, that would be a reason. Now, here's the other thing, though, is that China keeps everything locked down. So does Russia kind of, but China more. And so you know we just have really big mouths about this stuff too like we're out here saying whoa there's UFOs you're dude they for all we know there might be a ton of crash retrievals over in China you would never know James Fox is reported on the Russia and China thing a lot like the little bit that he was even able to get and yeah it happens well you have to think like we have compartmentalized um sort of projects that if you were to work on a UFO for instance, and this brings us to like Bob Lazar, he would be off with his partner working on

propulsion. You'd have another team working on the metal of the craft or on weaponry or on whatnot. And those people would not be allowed to talk to each other. And we don't have to look further than our own space programs. I have a friend who worked at SpaceX. And he was working on a part of the rocket. He wasn't allowed to know what that part was for that he was working on. He's like, you know, I would probably be able to do far greater work if you just told me what this was for. And they go, don't worry about it. And that's it. And it's going on a rocket. It's not, you know, but that's how compartmentalized systems work. So it's not specifically for UFOs, but it's in all types of defense technology sort of projects. And so when you're looking at the UFO space

specifically, we have all these compartmentalized things going on. Well, China, they're just like, all right, here's our 500 best engineers. Talk amongst yourselves. Figure it out and then bring it all back to me. There's no compartmentalization over there. Then how do they keep a secret so well? We have to keep a secret because the president shouldn't know about this stuff. for many reasons. One, because plausible deniability. If ever something comes out and the president knew about it, he's now in trouble. They can put him in jail because he knew about this illegal activity. And so they have to keep this information compartmentalized because they got a new president every four years. Not the case in China. Not the case in Russia. That's right. Everything goes to the

top. And so if you want to ask, if I had to pick like one person, to ask about their UFO program, it'd probably be Putin. Like, that guy probably knows everything about the UFO program. A lot of open land in Russia, too. Yeah, and he's been around forever. And you know that, like, he just grabbed everything from the previous guy. There's no hiding stuff from that guy. So, you know, and that's the difference, I think, between this compartmentalization

actually will hurt us in the long run. And I think that might be why a lot of these top physicists who are looking into this stuff are worried. And especially Bob Lazar, he was saying this stuff too, you know, back in early 90s was let us work together because if not, they're going to figure it out much faster than we are. I just, this is the part that kind of hangs me up. The compartmentalization here also makes verifying things for the people that do leak it or decide to go public harder because they only know one little piece. And it's like, you know, they don't even know that they're working on something exotic. That's right. Whereas, yes, you're talking about totalitarian regimes here, especially

China and Russia, where, you know, there's always the threat of death and stuff like that. But when you bring 500, 1,000, 2,000 people on it, and they all know, and they're all a part of it, even if they all feed that to the president, if one of them gets out of the country and defects, they got everything. You know what I mean? Like, the risk is so high. Yeah, but also, I don't think, like, I mean, culturally, it is different. If you look at, you know, America versus other countries, there's a massive cultural gap between how we treat things and we're ready to, like, boast about our first victory or whatever, where a lot of, a lot of these countries, most of the Asian countries specifically are very humble when it

comes to that stuff. And they don't really talk about, they're just like nose down, work, do what's good for your country, very patriotic. It's very rare that you'll see, like, defectors in any other, and maybe I'm wrong here, but in any other, like, work. Like, what else do you, do you see a lot of Chinese defectors when it comes to nuclear technology, when it comes to AI, when it comes to, no, right? So, AI, I've seen a couple, but yeah, nuclear now. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were some that came out from the UFO stuff as well, but they'll probably treat it the same way they treat everything else and just snuff it out.

and you know it gets the thing about the UFO thing though is it's it's it's not it's a borderless thing yeah right which technically all technology is not going to be wrong but like this is the i shouldn't even say borderless it is something quite literally not of this earth which is something that affects us all regardless of what borders and laws we live within right so you would think there would be like another layer to that that has nothing to do with like oh like chinese patriotism or russian patriotism or United States patriotism and more has to do with like you know if you were working on a project

and you're like holy shit we recovered a hundred yard long craft and reverse engineered anti-gravity because some fucking Zeta Reticlian you know crash this year the ontological shock of that

I don't I mean maybe you're right maybe culturally they'd just be like oh wow cool all right forgot in China you know but or scared to talk? Yeah, well, that's definitely a real thing. There's a lot of, most of the people would be scared to talk. I'm just saying all it takes is one. Yeah. One to not be scared. Yep. True. But then who's he telling? You know, where's he going? CNN? Yeah. Good luck. I don't know.

Do you know what I mean? Like, where do you go? You're Chinese guy. You speak Chinese. You're, you're coming to America, or you're leaving China, let's say, and you want to go public. Where do you go? Who do you talk to? You know, you speak Chinese. You speak Mandarin. You're trying to. You know, first of all, anything you say, we're going to, we're going to think it's some propaganda. You know, there's nothing you can say that I'm going to think is real, you know. So, yeah, I think it's, it might be easier to keep secret than we think. But other parts of it, I also think are really hard to keep secret, and that stuff's been coming out. And we just kind of ignore it.

Like, you talk about Bob Salas there. Like, there's so many other cases of whistleblowing. that has happened. And I don't mean whistleblowing through, like, the dopser regulated, you know, path. I mean, actual people who are coming out, quote, unquote, illegally to say that, hey, there's a problem here. You know, and the first, the first one I can think of was Bob Lazar. Have you ever met Bob Lazar? I have, yeah. Spent time of them. Like at dinner, that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah. I spent a couple days of them because he was, uh, he was in town doing, working on the documentary, the S-4 of the Bob Lazare story. It's my friend Luigi Vanitelli, who's also in Montreal,

so I got to hang with him there. What did you think of him? Incredibly normal guy. And I think everybody who meets Bob kind of says that about him. He's just like a salt-of-the-earth type guy. My bullshit meter wasn't off at all. Like, it didn't go off. Like, it was... He gets... I can say he does get incredibly there is there is stress when he talks about this stuff but you can tell it stems from a place of fear and that you can just detect off someone like his energy shifts and not to an energy of oh i i'm trying to lie it's more of an energy of like i'm going to talk about this like it's like it conjures up something very very very profoundly dreadful in him you know and you can feel that i remember i remember speaking to him and uh talking to him about like majestic 12 stuff

oh yeah tell people what majestic 12 is yeah it was apparently this group that was formed after the roswell crash that consisted of 12 people including you know generals and scientists and leaders of industry to cover up the UFO stuff. And then they formed what was known as the Majestic 12, which is, hey, this information is going to be, you know, only known by these 12 people. And as soon as one leaves, another one comes in, type deal. And so he had heard the term, right? According to him, he'd heard the term at S-4. He'd heard, like, the term majestic. Even his badge had MAJ on it. So he had, like, majestic clearance, which was you know very few people had that and so i was talking to him about it and he was like kind of

interested because he never he's not a ufo guy he doesn't know about any of this stuff and he told me you know i was talking to him about aztec the aztec crash which is a crash that happened in 48 in march 48 to nine months after roswell which is i think probably the most well documented crash in history which one fill me in on that i want to say ryan wood talked about that but There were a bunch we talked about when he was here. Maybe Ryan Wood would have talked about it. I know that Scott and Suzanne Ramsey wrote a book on it. Bill Steinman wrote a book called UFO Crash at Aztec.

What happened at Aztec? It was a 100 foot disc, 100 foot in diameter, a disc that hit the side of a bluff that was witnessed by this guy at the Archiletta Ranch and then veered off and landed on a mesa in Aztec, which was then found by two people. and then the Air Force was called in, took two weeks for them to recover it. There were 16 bodies, apparently, that were pulled from that wreckage. There's a great video that UAP Gerb put on it, did a real deep dive on it. He does great stuff.

And I helped Jesse direct, I directed a video that's going to come out on Jesse's channel. Oh, very cool. We went down to Aztec in New Mexico and went to the crash site and went to 16 bodies were recovered from it? Yeah, allegedly, yeah. What allegedly happened to them? They were sent off to initially Los Alamos and then from what we gathered to Wright Pat. At least the crafts were sent to Wright Pat.

Maybe the body stayed in, I don't know. Wright-Patterson Air Force. Yeah. It would have been Wright Airfield at the time. Okay, so you were talking to Bob Lazarar about this? Yeah. What was the context there talking about that with him? Because we were talking about majestic stuff

and I was just talking about things that, yeah, that's the plaque at the crash. site. I went there. That was written by Scott Ransy there. Yeah, I'll just read this real quick. Joe pulled this up. Honor about this site on March 25th, 1948, a spacecraft of origins unknown. Craster landed on this mesa, is alleged to Los Alamos radar station and nearby Elvado, Mexico, tracked the errant landing to this site. A high security recovery operation led by the Air Force in the 5th Army Division was responsible for the removal of this craft. The recovery operation took approximately two weeks, with all the remains being taken to Los

Salamos Laboratory for scientific study and evaluation by some of the world's leading scientists. Later, it was rumored to have been taken to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. The recovery of this craft by the U.S. government and military was one of the most secretive recoveries of a spacecraft with origins unknown since the similar recoveries in Roswell, New Mexico eight months earlier. The spacecraft was approximately 100 feet in diameter and 18 feet tall. It was one of the most intact crafts that the government had recovered at that time. sadly all occupants as many as 16 died as a result of this crash making the full disclosure

of both purpose and origin all but impossible the plaque has been placed here to bring awareness to an event that has been kept secret for 59 years and a significant part of america's history yeah pretty wild yeah so i was talking about that and um he was really interested because he told me he's like you know he goes john would talk about this stuff all the time, and I never believed him. And he was referring to John Lear, who's a well-known conspiracy theorists, you know, but also a pilot for the CIA. And so, but you know, Bob was really clear with me, at least, that the relationship he had with John Lear was one that was friendly, but he didn't buy into any of the stuff John was saying. Like John would, you know,

Bob would say, oh, John thought people lived. in the sun. Like, he, he just kind of threw everything out. So he never really registered that any of this could be real. He thought it was all hogwash, kind of. And so when I brought up Majestic 12, and I brought up, you know, Aztec and this and that, you can see him being like, wait, you think this happened? And I'm like, oh, yeah, especially Aztec. I'm pretty high conviction after reading Steinman's book and looking into Scott and Suzanne Ramsey's work. They got a new book coming out soon, by the way, on this stuff. It's really interesting. there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did happen.

And then I remember mentioning to Bob that there was a witness that came out that said they saw this craft in a hangar at Wright-Patterson, and they were doing a high-voltage test on it, and it went translucent, like kind of see-through, but not fully, like kind of like a shower glass. Yeah, where you can see the shawlux. shape of it. You could see shapes of people. And Bob got all excited. And he goes, that's exactly what it was like. And he started like, and it was just me and him. Like he got, you could tell,

like, visibly excited by it. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, when, so when he was in the craft, the one time he was allowed in the UFO, um, they were measuring the, the chair, whatnot or the seating device. And, and he was looking. And all of a sudden, one of the panels went invisible, one of the panels of the craft. And a symbol started appearing on the panels, according to him. That was the only time he's loud in the craft, but he remembers that. And he speaks about that. And so when I mentioned it wasn't completely transparent, he went like, he got all excited because he's like, that's what it was like. He never meant, that's not a detail that he never mentioned. But you saw that it excited him that it came from

someone else. And so, you know, it was really interesting to, to see him react to that stuff. And he's not opposed to, like, meeting people like Scott and Saddam Ramsey. People who he can trust know something. I think he's afraid of engaging with the UFO space because of how many people speculate. He does not like to speculate. Sure, he'll, like, talk about things. But when it comes to what he's seen and he's very, very careful about,

talking about stuff because he doesn't want to give people the wrong idea, you know, even in the blue documents that they had him read, where they briefed him on these alleged blue documents that contained, you know, all sorts of secrets about religion, where we're from, hybridization programs or genetic modifications in humans, and the anatomy of a gray, where they're from, what star system, like all this stuff he had to be briefed on. He never believed any of it. And And he really is reluctant to talk about it in public. He'll chat about it, like off camera, I think. But in public, he just doesn't want to give people the impression that it's true.

He's like, he knows about passage material and the fact that sometimes they'll put bullshit in there to see that if you talk about it to someone else, they'll know exactly who it came from. And he's very, he's like, they do that. They do that. And he's like, so he's like, the only thing I can say is that whatever they showed me about the crime. that he worked on, that was true. So, you know, I can only surmise that whatever else he read about is also true, but he'll never make that assumption. So did, I mean, because obviously, like, you're very familiar with this story and everything, because you're, you're into all this stuff. But did you have them, like, kind of go through it step by step with you again?

Yeah, we, yeah, we touched on it. We definitely, I, you know, I was able to, like, poke and prod where I thought there might be weaknesses. I'm high conviction on Balbazar. I'm extremely high conviction on Balbazar that he went through what he went through. So he says that he was working out at Area 51, Nellis Air Force Base. He had access to S-4. He was working at S-4. Yeah, I'm sorry. He was working at S-4, and at some point, as a physicist, engineer, I should say, and at some point, he's brought in... Yeah, he's brought in, he was actually recruited, so he'd met Edward Teller, who knows, the father of the H-bomb. He'd met him out of talk once, and then kind of, Teller was reading the newspaper, and on the front page of the paper was Bob, who was a local

Los Alamos paper and Bob was on the front cover because he'd made a jet engine car and he's a big fan of like propulsion and racing and doing dangerous shit and just kind of like he's a bit of a badass. He loves exploding things and you know he used to host Desert Blass which is this thing where they'd blow shit up

in the desert. Yep. So Bob's a bit of a badass when it comes that stuff. So he thought oh this is a good opportunity to meet Teller and to be like hey that's me on the cover and so they kind of like go back and forth Teller gives him his contact info and then I think years later I don't even think months, I think years later, he was looking for a job. He's like, oh, maybe I want to go back

into working as a, as like a scientist. And so he had hit up Teller and Teller said, oh, I might have a job for you and had him come down to, I forget, it was in Las Vegas, but to do some interviews. So he did a few interviews, got him a job. They said, yeah, it'll be perfect for this, didn't know what the job was, weird questioning, and like, kind of like, what do you do in your personal time, which is a weird thing to ask. And then, yeah, they'd fly him out to, they took the Janit Airlines, which is the airplane that goes from Las Vegas Airport to the airport, the airstrip at Area 51. And then from there, he'd get into a bus and do a 20-minute ride by himself. By himself, no one else. By himself. And Dennis Mariani, his supervisor, would be in there with him. And then

they'd go to S-4, where he would eventually be told that, you know, what he's working on was reverse engineering of an alien craft and that their number one priority was to figure out how it worked. And they said alien craft. They didn't say, no, they didn't say anything. In fact, they put him in a room and had him read documents. And the documents said it was from Zeta Ritiguli. It was, you know, all this stuff, that it was, it hinted that this particular craft was

from an archaeological dig that might have been 10,000 years. years old. So all this stuff. But again, Bob, you know, he's reading this stuff and he's like, oh, this is probably a test. They're probably testing me, you know, to see if I'm insane or so. He doesn't know, he doesn't, you know, in fact, when he first walked in, when he first saw the craft the first time, it had an American flag sticker on it. Right. Like they put it on there. And, and he goes, in his head, he's like, oh, that's what people are reporting. He's like, it's just ours. He didn't think aliens. He thought, oh, this is just ours, but, like, people are seeing this.

And, like, that explains it, finally. Logical thing to think. And, yeah, then he goes to read these documents and whatnot, and then he gets to work with the actual reactor and the transmitter and the, you know, and the amplifier, the gravity amplifier. And the propulsion, essentially, of the craft. Is anyone else working on it with him? Yeah, one person, Barry. Barry Castillo, I think his name was. And that's his only part.

partner. And Bob was actually, according to Bob, was replacing Barry's other partner who had died tragically. Somehow, I think he thinks by cutting open the reactor, they try to do some test. He doesn't know if more than one person died, but he knows that that guy died. He was replacing a guy that dies due to that. So, you know, Barry was really excited and to have a new partner, and he kind of briefed Bob and what his job would be. And then one day they were allowed to go inside the and measure stuff. And then one other day, they were actually brought outside to see a test flight where you got to stand under the craft. Like in the desert.

Yeah, right outside. So these doors are in the side of a mountain. There's like nine hangar doors. And they're camouflaged. And then they brought the craft outside somehow. He wasn't aware of how they brought it out. And he was outside. And it was sort of in the air.

And he was allowed to walk under it. How would he, forget how the craft is brought out, so he doesn't know that, but how would he be brought out? Would someone come in and be like, all right, you have to come in and said, they're doing a test, you should see this. Come through these doors, walk through a hallway, you get outside, and then suddenly, yep. And how did he describe the test flight looking? Yeah. And what did they do? It was just, it went up and then went back down, no sound, yeah.

So he's. And there was some, there was like, there was a rate, this is the interesting thing, which. always like kind of stands out as like weird even Bob thinks it's weird that there was a communication on a radio frequency between whoever was inside allegedly and with the person on the ground and Bob's thinking that's impossible because if you're creating a gravitational field around this it's there's you're you're in your own space and space time there's no way radio frequency would get through that yeah there's no way so he doesn't know what that was about. But he knows that the test pilot in that case had to be like our guy rather

than a fucking alien. No idea. He doesn't know anybody that was in there. So it, it, you know, he speculates like, oh, I don't know, maybe they were trying to trick me. Maybe, you know, they were, maybe they're, I don't know, I don't know. I think, you know, what if, what if the only way we can fly it is like with their help, right? Meaning like them or the kids as he refers them to them as. But the aliens, right? What if, like and so what if one of them was in there during that time and they had to like pretend it was a human so they were radioing somebody else somewhere else you know and bob kind of maybe figured that out i don't know it's all that's all me speculating um i love thinking about this though

did i i can tell it's so it's so fascinating it's so fascinating because it's like god even if like 10% if it's true it's a big deal right but did he just did you ask him about what his when he saw it actually fly out there if like that moment obviously he's thinking about the science of the radio frequency thing doesn't make sense but was he also did he have a moment to even like step back and be like wait my entire worldview is just completely changed it changed way before then i think way before yeah when he was doing tests with the reactor when did the element 115 thing come in that's with the reactor can you explain that again yeah forget what the context is there yeah it's uh it's basically the fuel And it's this little triangular slice of, apparently, Element 115 that would go into the reactor. And I'm not exactly, if you want to know more about this, by the way, stay tuned for S4, the Bob Lazar story. They go through everything. It's a fantastic documentary.

It's late. We get it, but it's coming. But they explain how all of that works. So essentially, it's the Element 115 is like fed into something. It's hit with, I don't even. I'm not even going to pretend to understand, but it creates 116, which decays, which then creates antimatter, and then that powers the craft somehow. They still don't know how there aren't any wires connecting anything, and yet still things

are working. Like, there's a lot of stuff. So Bob said he would just, it was like disarming a bomb every day. Like, he didn't know, you know, it's, you give a nuclear reactor to somebody in the 1600s. Oh, yeah. They're going to get sick and die. They're going to kill people. Like, he's like, that's what we were playing with.

He's like, it was very dangerous. They had no idea the power. They could just test things. So they do this and then, oh, nothing happened. Then they do that, nothing happened. It was very boring, he said. But, like, stressful. And then he did some tests, which were really freaking cool.

Like what? The coolest one that he's ever talked about was they put a candle beside the reactor. And when they had the gravity amplifier and when they had the gravity amplifier and when they turned the amplifier to like to I guess I guess it was like directional gravity this thing and so when you turn it it like focuses gravity and they would do that onto the flame of the candle the candle would stop jumping it would stand still but it would still emit light which was impossible to him so it was like creating time dilation yeah because of the because he was amplifying gravity and then he did he also did it once where

They created like this, what seems like a black hole. A black hole? Yeah, it was like a round circle that was black. That was when they cranked it and, like, focused the gravity beam. It would create this round dot. And they didn't know what that was. They didn't interact with, you know. And, like, stick a finger up.

No, because, you know, maybe that'll destroy the whole universe. You know, who knows? I don't know. I don't know what kind of, you know, but that's the type of technology you're working with when you're messing with gravity. And I'm sure that the U.S. government or whoever was in charge of the nuclear tests felt some of that

when you're blowing up megatons of nuclear things. Like, you're probably tearing space time on some level as well, right? So, yeah, I think all that stuff is incredibly dangerous. But so fascinating. Yeah. How long did he say he was doing the work on it and the testing approximately?

I think he was only there for a few months. still that's like a lot of time to spend with one craft yeah uh well he he only he went in the craft once um other than that he was working with the reactor just doing tests on the uh trying to reverse engineer how it propels you know there's some interesting stuff there though i mean there's a ton of interesting stuff yeah would they debrief him on a daily or weekly basis and if so like who's doing that nope no no so he would just get he'd be brought in by the same guy, Dennis, you said, to work on it every day. And there's security guards everywhere.

And then... That are constantly pushing you, constantly threatening you. Pushing you and threatening you. Yeah, yeah. Like checking his ID, even though, like, he knows he works there, like, you know, and keep it down, like, all this. Like, you better not fucking talk. Like, just constantly, constantly berating them with stress inoculation. And that's the environment.

He's like, it's a high, very high stress environment because these people would, Yeah, they were like bullies, essentially, the security that was there constantly. And it would put you in a state of fear, like stress, high stress and fear constantly, constantly, constantly. You had to whisper when you were talking, like, so nobody, like it was, you know, look down, look down. There was a red line and a blue line. If you cross the red line, you were immediately shot, like type deal. You had to follow the blue line. Like, it was high stress environment, like, very, very, very, very.

And so, like, when I, when I hear that, you know, like, these are, this is 1989. when Bob came out and he started talking about reverse engineering of a craft. The first time we talked about an intact craft that were reverse engineering, by the way. Everything else was a crash before that. And so, you know, that was new. And then talking about the propulsion, talking about like how they're doing it in teams, like nobody had ever really talked about that. And then, you know, just saying things like, oh, the high stress environment during the compartmentalization. And I mean, you listen to Grush. You listen to all these guys. It's what they're talking about. They're talking about the same thing.

you know and yet people are all freaking out about all these new whistleblowers dude bob was saying all this stuff man he was saying all of the stuff everything we're talking about now started with bob everything you can sit there and say oh yeah but this doesn't add up or that doesn't add up maybe it does maybe it does and you just don't know the full story but rest of sure that everything he's talking about like is coming to light we're talking about all the same things now after he puts in, you know, a 10, 12-hour day, whatever it is in this high-stress situation over these months, like each day when he's escorted out of there by Dennis, like, you just sleep on the base? Nope, goes home.

Goes home. Yep. Takes the bus back and flies back to Vegas and then drives back home. Flies back to that? Yeah, he has to fly out of the area 51 back to on Jan and Airlines. He's doing like a multi-crazy days. Multi-medium, you know, four-hour commute. Yep.

if you were there he says that there's there might have been people that slept there um you know but he never did hey guys if you haven't already subscribed please hit that subscribe button it's a huge huge help thank you now maybe if he would have stayed longer well how did it end how did he stop working on it what was that process he was um if i'm not mistaken i think there was some trouble in paradise. I think his wife was seeing someone else. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And he didn't like, well, the CIA was tapping him like they do or the CIA, whoever the program was. You know, they're just making sure that your home life is stable because if anything goes wrong at the home, then they're like, oh, you know, you might be a problem. You might be a liability. And so they were

anticipating that there was going to be a problem with him, that they would have to let him go. And I think he sensed that, but he didn't know why. So these guys found out before he did about his wife, right? Because they're tapping the phones and everything. So they know what's going on, but he doesn't. So they're anticipating that, oh, this is going to go bad. We've got to let him go type deal. And so he started bringing his friends up like John Lear, I think Gene Huff, I think all these guys, started bringing them up to a place which is no longer accessible, but a place that overlooked S4 back then.

and they would do test flights Wednesday nights at like 2 a.m. It was the least amount of air traffic or local traffic. And so he brought them up there on three separate occasions to see test flights. And they saw. There's even video of that. It's really like old 80s footage and it's just a light, but it skips. It goes, just like he said it would. Isn't that like breaking his confidentiality agreement though doing that?

Yeah, 100%. But he was afraid for his life. He didn't know. thought he might be like offed so why he's getting paranoid hey listen I'm not I'm not judging and the last night why wouldn't that's what I'm saying why wasn't he thrown in prison like you would think this would be the thing they'd throw you in prison forever for for what I mean they could lie about the details and say that's national security information and risk him just blowing up in prison and being like oh no this is what they did I mean they would

they would kill people they've killed people for far less they would much sooner kill you yeah and then that's why he was afraid because he even says he's got right off the road uh he was shot at yeah why didn't that that's that's the other thing like he went to george immediately immediately yep and broke his story got caught the let what happened when he got caught the last night again uh there's a bunch of people that came out basically uh caught him took all their names and then sent them home and then that's where he knew like he was like uh-oh this is going to be a problem so he goes to george knapp who's a local reporter yeah and k ls yeah and at first he does it without revealing his identity so you just hear his voice he says his name

is like dennis or something like that which is his supervisor's name yep and he says what when he did the first one how much did he reveal was it just like hey i've been working on stuff that's not of this earth no no he said there's like nine craft out of base and so he gave it some detail. Yeah, yeah. And then not too long after he actually goes public with his face with George. I think he gets threats between then and when he came out. So I think that's what made him come out was for his own safety. After that, he's like, I need to go public and you put my face out there. Okay. Do you think, you know, these are major claims, obviously. Yeah, huge. It's crazy. do you think that a lot of the stuff that's happened since then were these institutions that he claimed to be a part of say there's no record of him being here whether it be mit or there was another one as well i forget what it's called it was like 3,000 miles away or something like that you know do you think some of that is explained by you know downward stream threats of people being told like hey you got to deny this guy deny his credit bill we have to destroy his

credibility, et cetera? Is that how you would explain it? Um, I can't really say. Um, you know, there is, there is, I think, a real reason why his records don't show up. I think that's very real. Um, but, but, it's very real. Well, I think the fact that like, I think his, I think his records were destroyed and I think that I don't think he was the only one I think there were

other people who's were also but I think yeah I don't think that I'm gonna say this I think there's a perfectly good reason why there's no records there I think it makes sense if you hear it sometimes I think about it like it's not for me to say but that way you know the movie shutter island Leonardo DiCaprio. So, spoiler alert, he's playing a guy who it turns out the whole time like he's actually in an insane asylum. Everyone who then looks at him once the reveal is given looks at him like, oh, crazy person.

Right. Yeah. Imagine being that person. Yeah. And everyone looks at you that way, even though both you and them know you're not. crazy yeah but they have to play the role of like almost like in the 1984 movie of life just like hmm oh bob you don't really think that yeah you know what i mean but it's like this yeah assume kind of thing that's kind of what i wonder bob doesn't give a shit that's that's what's fun about bob

he does not give a shit whether you believe me or not he doesn't care couldn't be bothered he doesn't care it's so funny because like we're out here what do you mean you don't believe in bob you look at the facts No, you got this wrong. You know, you're not doing your homework. Bob's like, let him. I don't give a shit. Yeah. Who cares?

Let him go. He doesn't care if you don't believe him. And I love that about him. He just, he can't be bothered. He's like, yeah, I know what happened. He's like, it happened. What do you want me say? It happened.

Like, I don't care what you say, you know, and he has that attitude. And he's maintained that. And it's the reason why he doesn't do a lot of interviews. Right. Is because he's like, I've told my story. Do your thing. You know, world, take it, run. I'm not going to.

make anything up now he's like i've told you everything i know that's all i can do do you think the reason he's turned down forget interviews do you think the reason he's turned down doing like some debates and stuff with quote unquote qualified physicists or scientists or people within that space is because he's been taken advantage of and lied to before and so he feels like anything he goes to do is a trap. It's kind of like a catch-22 for him. Like he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Yeah, he's, I'd imagine he would be distrustful of a lot of people for a varying amount of reasons, whether it's government secrecy or just personal gain. Like, I think there's a lot to be distrustful of being him. And again, I just think like he gave, he gave all the

information that he had to give. He's put out enough information out there where you're like, okay it's time for you to piece the puzzle together um you know if you're him you're not trying to debate anybody who cares if you know why why why why should he spend his energy convincing people what he went through was real when he knows it to be real i think the counterargument and and i understand where he would come from mentally on that because it's such an crazy life experience that he had. I think the counterargument would be the classic look, you know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which means putting it to the test. The question is, are the people that put it to the test going to do that in good faith? And how do you judge good faith? And if I were

him with his life history and all the things that have happened to him, you know, the things that he alleges and stuff, I might not be so trustfully. either of quote unquote good faith in those discussions. Yeah, and what will it matter? Like to what end? Like it doesn't get, I don't think it'll further the conversation to have somebody debate, right? Because if they want to find a reason not to believe, they're just going to, you know, it's like I said, I don't think it's about belief. I don't think it's about believing Bob or not believing Bob. I think it's about taking what Bob said and then doing the work, doing the homework. But instead of pushing back on what he said and trying to verify his own credibility,

why don't we just take the information and do the work for ourselves? Why don't we take what we can and hold it up against the rest, right, and see if it matches? And so far, it really matches. And so his word aside, the information that he's giving you is, I think, valuable at least to a researcher, you know, he's, he's definitely, it definitely fills a lot of plot holes, which is fun, you know, somebody's trying to piece this stuff together. But yeah, I don't think it's up, I don't think he should be put in a position where he has to convince anyone. I think he said what he has to say, take it or leave it. I kind of agree that at this stage, I think he's just, he just wants to live a normal life, you know, he's a normal guy. He's not, uh, you know, I don't

know he's not out there at doing the convention tour or on a cruise ship and he's still not a UFO guy no he said yeah he's a science guy you know he has united nuclear his own company where he still does science stuff and yeah weren't they like selling some shit and they got like investigating because bad people were buying it or something like that but that's not on him he sells stuff to the government he has government contracts that's hilarious you know for yeah it is so so funny he does like uh i think uranium tests they're like testing kits they have like small traces amount of uranium and they're for like calibration for like geiger meters or whatever they're like little cards and he and like he'll sell those he sells all sorts of like yeah stuff like that like really dangerous materials

that he works with every day so even for people thinking oh he's not a scientist like he's in the lab yeah yeah yeah i'd like to see you sit down with him one day i think that'd be really cool so did i dig into it yeah hopefully it's like fucking eight hours long too and then then you were here and on this date you were here you know that'd be very cool to go through that because he's it you know the little public stuff he's done i'm sure a lot of people have seen like that rogan episode i think it's his most popular one ever like he's tough read you know he's just like kind of like you said like to you when you got to spend a couple days with him it's like you know he's no bullshit just kind of tells you what it is but when you're just watching him like on camera

for just like three hours just kind of going through the story he's got a real poker face bro i mean And it's like, it's like, maybe, maybe. You know, you're like kind of watching the whole time, like, eh, yeah. Because it's, man, if, like I said, if 10% of that's true, it's, I agree. What the fuck else do we have? I agree. I think, I think as far as, like, whistleblowers go, I think he's the most important

whistleblower we've ever had. I can't think of a bigger, you know, bigger story or claim. He did it the way that he's a true whistleblower. He didn't go through some government process. and I'm not denigrating any of those people, but it is what it is. Yeah. You know, he came out and said everything that he could, and then people crucified him for it. Right.

You know, whereas if he would have went through a government approved process, they would have still shat on him. Sure. Right. What do you think of, what do you think of grush and him coming out? Obviously, it's not quite a story. No, but I think I, I think what he did was great. I think what he did was great, and I think it's a shame that more haven't. You know, I think him and Bob have something in common in that I believe they both felt

that more people would follow up when they came out. I think Bob was hoping that more people from S4 would be like, yeah, me too. And I think Grush felt more people from the program would also be like, yeah, me too. And I don't think it happened. And I think that sucks. you know if you're in that position so oh there's a lot of things to happen behind the scenes too yeah i think people get wind of that like oh fuck i don't want that to happen to me yeah and you see you know the barrage that he had to you know and and just for that just to not deal with

social media is a big enough reason not to come out just to be like i don't want that i don't want to yeah have a twitter profile now and and that's the that's the thing though when you're making when you're coming out with something that big yeah forget just the extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Every part of your life that's publicly available is going to be picked apart. And there's, I understand that. And I'm, that sucks. I can't imagine being in that position. That really does suck. But like, it's relevant. You know what I mean? Like, who you are, where you're from, what your motives could be. And if you don't come out, it's all relevant. Nobody knows that you know shit, right? So they're never going to be like, you got to talk. They'll

just leave you alone. That's right. But the second you say, I might know something, Now you're an asshole for not playing ball. Now you might go to jail if you say something. Now you're in this weird position. Yeah. Right. And, you know, we know people like that who, you know, they'll come out and they'll say a little bit of something. But now you're playing ball.

Now we know you know. And now it's like everybody's judging you. Everybody's picking at your past and digging into everything you say and every interview and micro expressions. But if you just sit back, you don't got to say anything. Right. You know, and that's fine too. So it's like, I get it. I do understand.

But that's why what Grush did and what Balazard did, I mean, it takes some balls. For sure. Yeah. And then, look, you're going to get some people that are just going to copycat that and jump on it and some that will just straight up lie. And then you'll get some stories that aren't reliable to, which then can denigrate the original person through no fault of their own, which I think some of that's happened to David Grush. Yeah. Because you did have, like, you're right, a lot of the people that he's referring to that he's like, I hope, and I don't know who these people are, but I hope they'll come out. and talk about it clearly all those people didn't yeah and the people of the people that have there's

been no one to come out since grush that i think has anywhere near the level of like bullshit meter you know smell test credibility that he does and we and we've seen several but like it's also when you're in this space and you're getting sourcing now a lot of the sourcing is coming from people that were in the government right that you're you're you're getting sourcing now that you're you know, they probably still are in some cases, and they're compartmentalized, like we were talking about early, earlier with some of this stuff. And so, you know, if you're someone like James Fox, right, our mutual friend, he's a documentarian. He has to go, he's not a government insider or like an insider in that case on UFOs. He has to go get the sources. So if you get,

without name and names, certain people who had access to certain programs to tell you things that then seem reliable and then those same people then end up feeding you things that are not reliable it makes the it it makes you question all of it i know james like deals with that like well what yeah all right if that wasn't i know this isn't true but does does i mean that's not true that seemed more true this one's you know what i mean it's a really tough game to play it's tough yeah that's why you know podcasting is easy for us because you know we can sit across somebody who's yeah living a you know a schizophrenic reality or is a government insider, you know, and it doesn't matter. Either way, it's entertaining, it's fun. We can talk about things and discover things and hypothesize and

theorize about whimsical realities. But yeah, like people like James, it makes it a little bit more tough because he's, he's in those courtrooms and he's in, you know, those interviews with the military folk. And that's why I think the more I study this stuff, the first, the first, Further from that disclosure UAP team, I'm going. And not because it isn't valuable, I think, sure, it's valuable, it has its place. I'd just rather talk to a farmer than a lawmaker at the end of the day. That's a good bar. Farmer than a lawmaker.

Yeah, they're just, you know, I don't know, somebody who's salt to the earth and just tells it like it is. Yes. You know, just because it comes from a guy in a suit. who drafts up bills or whatever, it's not going to raise my conviction level, if anything, it'll lower it. So I think just talking to real people, experiencers, people who've had experiences,

and hearing them out, and that's it. And then I... Like the people judge. Yeah, I think we're going to... You know, that's our part. The part that we play as podcasters in this disclosure forum, I think is just opening the conversation.

I think that's a really important part to play. is to have a platform where it's okay. And now that, you know, someone says, oh, I was on the Julian Dory podcast, and they go, they go, oh, yeah, I like that guy. Yeah, you had a guy on there. I was talking about aliens the other day. And it's like, it's not so insane, you know.

And I think that's just in itself very important to just have that. And so I'm very happy with that. I'll leave the detective work to guys like UAP Gerb and, you know, and James Fox. and those guys digging a little bit deeper than I ever, you know, could possibly. Yeah, that was, because, like, I go, I go way back with James, Alessi, who used to be the in-studio producer and runs all my, he's like the head of content with me now. He, he was down in Brazil, making Mom in contact with James in July 2021. James came to my parents' house a few years ago, did a couple podcasts that went nuts and all that.

so like awesome guy works his ass off genuinely cares and and really is amazing at getting people to open up and you see you see that in his work and like whenever you're looking at anything let alone something as wild as UFOs doesn't matter who you are you're never going to get it all right or there's going to be things that later you're like eh thought maybe that could be something but that's actually bullshit but you know how people are on the internet they pick every fucking thing apart and like james made another brilliantly put together documentary with the program that had by the way had a lot of important storylines in it in it that absolutely have real verifiable stuff to it but then also had jason sands in there and this this is where i ran into a problem because

the people that brought james jason sands which are think like government suit type people like you were talking about, have brought him other stuff in the past that seemed more to pass the smell test. Yeah. But then you see with Jason Sands and you realize that they knew that Jason had severe PTSD among other issues in his profile that would make him questionable at best as a witness. And then clearly someone who I don't think any of his story is real. I think it literally was all lifted from Gaia and there's a whole explanation behind there.

but like when those same people were push literally i know pushing that shit down james's throat like yo just hear him out have him on this documentary yeah it's like what does that mean about some of the other stuff that we thought was pretty good yeah like do you wrestle with that sometimes uh no um i i just kind of take it in it's fine like i'm not just because i hear a story doesn't mean i believe it so i'm very happy to hear all the stories even if they're true or not or I think true information is as valuable as somebody who's lying. I think if you're telling me the truth, they're lying. If I know you're lying, because I can prove it, then that's valuable information, too,

just like you said. Now that you have this, you're like, oh, now you start questioning the source. So I think it's important to get all this stuff. I don't care. You know, just let's, I don't know, let's just dissect what we have and speculate on what we have. I mean, there's nothing else we can do. This is all we got to play with. Like, I'm sitting here reading on Reddit and 4chan forums, like I'm some type of, you know, researcher.

It's all we got. Yeah. You know what I mean? And people come down to me like that. They're like, hey, you know, 4chan isn't legitimate sources. Yeah, obviously. But it's all we got. It's all I got.

I got some guy here claiming. So I'm going to take it out. I'm going to read the whole thing. If something clicks, something clicks. And if it doesn't, whatever. No loss. I'm just, you know, now I have more information I did before. So that's how I kind of treat it all, whether it's, you know, the Jason Sand stuff or whatnot, I think, but I do hold, you know, witnesses that are outside of the government sphere in higher conviction than I would somebody within the government, for sure, for sure.

You were talking earlier about the underwater aspect of this and how, you know, you'll see things that seem to, like, appear from there and show. show up when, you know, there could be a nuclear test or you talk about like laser beams and stuff like that that could be going off, like, and it's like they show up. And then, of course, we all always think about the fact that like 95% of the ocean is completely unknown to us. Yeah. It's like what the fuck could be down there. Do you think that not necessarily all of it, but some of it could be like DARPA, who could be so, you know, 40, 50 years ahead of us. technology and you know yeah at least we have it well i think i think i think they're yes definitely um i think you know we've been exploring the ocean since like the 50s as well right with technology

with um ground penetrating sort of radar or sonar or whatever uh down there looking for crafts that we lost you know in terms of uh rockets or you know so we've been exploring that quite a bit and yeah I think it would be safe to assume that once or twice we've mistaken their technology for hours or hours for theirs or adversarial technology like definitely I think that there's you know we're at least 30 years ahead in tech I would say what does that mean for something like AI then because it's like yeah I think that means exactly what that means like right living in the in AI's and have been for a while and we just don't know it? I don't know. I would assume, I would hope to think that if we did reach, you know, zero point on AI or whatever, or the, you know, the peak of creating artificial intelligence that we would hear about it instantly, I would think.

Like, that would just change everything. It would exponentially grow and just, like, take over everything immediately. I don't know. But in the event that we, in the event that we, in the event that we. that we wouldn't find out, then I think, yeah, it does exist. It does. It's being used. For sure, whatever the government has is better than what we have. We know that, right? That's why, like, when I listen to David Fravers' testimony, he's always really stood out to me because he's just describing what he saw. And then he gives you, you know, the actual video of like, here's what

it was. Here's where it moved. And he's like, listen, could be alien. It's something that we definitely didn't know about technology-wise. So what the fuck is it? You know what I mean? Like, that's there's a real open-minded nature to what he's revealing there that i think you know in the gimbled video obviously and he's like it is not lockheed martin yeah it's but but it's like what's he even read in on you know what i mean like he knows he's still a pilot he's not the fucking president or the hs ia so it's like what are they not even telling the guys whose job it is to patrol the air about or is it just straight up like oh that's from another place, which could be the explanation.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I think probably some people do know. I just, I can't even speculate if it's from us. I don't think it's from us. I don't think that stuff, especially the stuff that comes out of the water. I think, you know, if you want to look for a reference, I think look at Richard Dolan's work. He's got a lot of work on underwater submerged objects.

Yeah, I would just assume that anything that's down there has been down there for a very long time, is my guess. I think that a lot of the craft that we've retrieved has been from in the water. Why do you think that? UAP Gerb did a lot of big deep dives on some of that stuff. Bob Lazar also says that he believes that, well, first of all, the checks were made out from, I think, the Office of Naval Intelligence or the Department of Naval Intelligence to, Bob Lazarus. The Navy is massively involved. It's not the Air Force. It's the Navy. They're probably both dealing with their own things and don't even talk to each other about it. But the Navy, I think, has probably the most advanced technology in terms of like reverse engineering UFOs. If that's

the situation, it's definitely the Navy. But then how do you explain things like Wright Pat and stuff like that? Yeah. Again, Air Force probably has some stuff, but I think the Navy's been pulling stuff out of the water for a very long time. There's a lot going on in the oceans, I think, and I think we're starting to hear about it more and more. When something crashes in the water, it doesn't really blow up. Right.

You know, it might be easier to grab what's in the water. Now, that was what you mentioned this earlier. That was what Lou was talking about with Project Interloper, where the proposal was to, like, go out into the ocean, run you know, some sort of nuclear simulation. Yeah, even just have, yeah, nukes out there. Have nukes and like try to

draw. Yep, lure them in. Yeah, and then they said that they canceled that, so. Yeah. That was convenient. Yeah, they said, ah, you know, never mind. Nah. Don't worry about it. Don't we're not going to do that. No, yeah. You want to even try it? Nah, we won't even try

it, I think. What do you think of Lou? You've had him in, too. I think he's a nice guy. I think he's a very nice Yeah. I think he's a nice guy. You know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to comment on, you know, whether, listen, he worked counterintelligence. And that as someone who is skeptical of things, of the nature of what we're being told, I have to be skeptical of what he says. But I, that's a general skepticism that I hold for anyone in counterintelligence. not specifically to Lou. I agree. I think you have to have that for all of them. Yeah, exactly.

But, you know, would gladly have dinner with him. He's a nice guy. He's a really nice guy. Yeah, yeah, he's been nice to me. He's been nothing but kind to me. You know, he did the podcast when it was like in the early stages. So, you know, he really, he came through there. I can't, yeah, I can't knock him for that.

As far as anything else goes, I mean, I think there are enough people on Twitter talking about that guy I don't want to be a part of it that's it's such a negative culture yeah within like the whole like UFO thing I stay the fuck out of it yeah I've seen it before it's like again it's what we were talking about before I still want to talk about people um you know if if Lou comes out and has like a you know some groundbreaking news we can talk about that you know but as far as his character goes I don't know him well enough to yeah to talk about that I think he was nice to me and I'll leave it at that. I think it's another thing of where people want things to be zero or a hundred

and things can be a mixed bag. I think so. And I've said that. I would like to think so. Yeah. I've said that to his face on camera and off camera, and I feel pretty strongly that that is the case without knowing the full details of whatever it is

that he's involved or isn't involved with now. You know, so it's like take what he says, do with it what you will. I think that's kind of our job, put it out there for people to decide. And if they want to fight over that, they can fight over that. I think it just gets like, you know, sometimes, like, especially with, you know, people fighting over him and stuff, I'm just like, all right, go out and touch some grass people. Yeah. I mean, like, like, there's better things to be fighting over here.

Absolutely. You know, if you don't like his information, no problem. Yeah. Move on. Yeah. Like, you know, there's the, the picture, I think, was the latest one, right, with the, where he showed the crop circle type deal. I tweeted, I thought it was, I thought it was real, you know? I was thinking of the dead babies one

Oh no I wasn't I saw that one too yeah Which by the way that is not People were saying he he passed something to me In episode 273 Oh they thought was that Where I couldn't say what it was He's like if I show you this you can't say And I look and you just have me reacting

That is not what he showed me Okay What he showed me all I'll say I can't say what it was But it was something that had words on it That's all I'll say Oh okay It was not that

But like when I saw that I was like I was never shown anything So I was like I was never sent to text with a weird image or any of that when I saw that image of the the crop circles I was like at first I was like oh it's really like

and then I tweeted it and then I was like looking further and I was like oh it's a pretty good illusion you know it is a really good illusion it's a good optical illusion and then I tweeted oh yeah case solved somebody found it you know and that's for me that's that's all I cared about was the information let's look at the information oh we found where it comes from and some people are like well you got to we got

talk about where, no, you just got to do your own research and like, that's it. Why do anything more? A hundred percent, man. And obviously, you know, after things like that happen, I think naturally people's, people's conviction level will lower with all the information that he puts out. And that's a shame to him if he's trying to put out truthful information. It's a shame for us receiving that truthful information because now it has to go through the filter of all this other stuff that, you know, showed up not to be true. And so it's just unfortunate is what it is. But I, you know, there's no reason to crucify the guy for that. I think you can just make your own decisions and move on with your life.

I agreed. Yeah. Chris, it's been a lot of fun, man. Hey, man. You are a fountain of information on this stuff. So it's fun talking with you about it. Your show is amazing. We'll have that link down below.

We're also going to link your old YouTube channel to. Appreciate it. So people can go watch all this stuff you do. You're blown my mind a few times today. So I guess thanks for that. Thanks. But it's great to finally meet you, man. Likewise.

I've appreciated your support from afar. and everything. That's been really cool. It's nice to put a name with the face. Likewise, love what you're doing here. And thank you to your audience for, uh, for letting me have a space to chat about my shit. Absolutely. Everyone go check out Area 50 briefed and Area 52 production. All right. Thanks, so else. See you again soon. Everyone else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.