Julian Dorey Podcast - #378 - “Satan’s Slaves!” - Hells Angels Boss on ATF Coverup, his Top Secret DoD Job & FEAR | George Christie

Episode Date: January 30, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) RAG & BONE: Upgrade your denim game with Rag & Bone—get 20% off sitewide with code JULIAN at www.rag-bone.com #ragandbonepod 2) JUVENON: Take care of your heart – Visit https://bloodflow7.com/JULIAN and Get 30% OFF BloodFlow-7 today. JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ George Christie Jr. is an American author and former outlaw biker who served as president of the Ventura, California charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club between 1978 and 2011. He is the longest-serving charter president in the club's history. Christie was also a national spokesman for the Hells Angels. GEORGE's LINKS: X: https://x.com/georgeFPC FB: https://www.facebook.com/p/George-Christie-100063588966258/ WEBSITE: https://www.georgechristie.com/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 – Intro 01:26 – Federal surveillance, informants, firebombing allegation, shock plea deal 11:58 – Prison gangs, street taxes, FBI recordings, murder-for-hire case 23:27 – Poverty, outlaw influence, power, money as protection, mother testifies 36:05 – “Bad but loved,” Greek grandfather, discipline, Marines decision 46:48 – Cheating accusation, leaving polite society, parallels to plea deals 56:43 – Hells Angels ties, Altamont, cultural shift, doors opening 01:06:03 –George's Top Secret DoD job, Cold War surveillance, outlaw identity 01:16:00 – ATF infiltrators, informants, outlaw vs criminal philosophy 01:25:07 – Entrapment plot, bugged meetings, war vs restraint 01:37:10 – Taco Bowman hit, prison call, biker violence vs idealism 01:46:31 – Walking in alone, biker roots, quitting the club, banishment 01:55:53 – Media strategy, 60 Minutes ambush, trademark fight, patch moment 02:07:45 – Joining vow, Satans Slaves Party, armory setup, charges collapse 02:16:24 – Hunter S. Thompson, book tone shift, media backlash 02:25:37 – Betrayals, club wars, decline, assassination attempts 02:37:11 – Fatherhood conflict, intimidation tactics, patch taken 02:47:09 – Taser incident, FBI wedding irony, Ventura launch, Mueller 02:57:52 – Jaywalking case, Olympic torch, media spectacle 03:07:55 – Grenade attack, ATF coverup, CIA NOC allegation 03:19:07 – Nordic peace talks, visas, truce, post-club life reset 03:33:21 – George's Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 378 - George Christie Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Segregated funds are administered by Cooperators' life insurance company. Life insurance is underwritten by cooperators' life insurance company. do it again in a minute. In 1978, I was leader of Los Angeles, Hells Angels. I was 100% committed. I was ready to give my life more than once it was on the line. I thought it was riding and partying and brotherhood. Now I'm going to tell you a story. So listen, there's a drool dealer in Los Angeles and he's got a fake Hells Angel patch. We're going to get this guy and we're going to stop him. He's in a bar, I break into the car and I've got a gun with a silence. He gets in, but to my surprise, there's two guys.

And I said, I know you've got the f***ing patch, man. He goes, I don't know what you're talking about, I go start driving. We're going out Highway 14. We go out to the desert. The sun's going down. So we're all going to watch the sunset. Probably going to be your last one. And I get the shovel out. I tell him, start digging. Make it widened up for two. He f***ing starts babbling like a baby. What if I had to patch? Were you prepared to kill him? Hey guys. If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge help. Thank you. George, you got one of those lives that if they wrote it in a movie script, I don't know that anyone would even believe it.

you know sometimes i tell these stories and people uh call bullshit on me but i'm telling you everything i tell you is how i remember it i believe you there's a long track record of that as well because people were investigating you for so many years and they couldn't even believe who you were and how much you how much influence you had and how likable you were at the same time you know well you know decade after decade after decade of uh investigations and uh you know i don't know if it all came to stumbling down in 2011 that was my last indictment and I hope that's my last hurrah with the federal government but they started investigating me on a 2007 firebombing said I ordered a firebombing of a tattoo shop competition did you do it no I did not but somebody came to me and told me they were going to do it

I said I think that's a bad idea right and you know I said you're not even the tattoo business man. He goes, I just don't like these guys disrespecting us. They came in our town open the tattoo shop. It was kind of unwritten rule. You know, Ventura was Ventura, Hells Angels tattoo territory, if you will. The ironic thing is ultimately, he became the informant on me, said, I sent him to blow the places up with a fire bomb. And, you know, it's ironic. It starts in 2007. I get indicted in 2011. 11. My daughter takes it to 2013. My daughter's an attorney. She starts representing me. Oh, your daughter's an attorney. My daughter's a criminal attorney. And it's very nice.

And 2011, she kept chipping away at it from 2011 to 2013. And reached the point in time, finally, the judge Wu, a federal judge in Los Angeles. He said, he looked at the U.S. Attorney. He said, this case is not what you want it to be. He goes, I know you want this to be your career case, but this isn't it. And so I'm sitting over at the defense table really smug, like, yeah. And then he looks at me and points his finger. He goes, and you, Mr. Christie, God only knows what you've gotten away with. He goes, so what I want you to do, I want you to go down to Judge Walters off.

a courtroom and I want you guys to come back with a deal make a deal. He goes, I don't want to take this case any further. So my daughter went down there and with me in tow. And the whole conference started out brilliant because Judge Walters looks at me and he said, do you want these guys out here? They were two FBI agents and a U.S. United States prosecutor attorney. And I said, yeah, yeah, I want him out. Oh, you'll get the whole other team off.

So he kicked him out. And so he starts talking to me like he's my buddy, you know. And he goes, look, George, he goes, we all understand here what mandatory minimums mean, right? And I go, yes. And he goes, you know, you have three mandatory minimums of life on the end of this indictment. You've got count six, seven, and eight. They're all mandatory minimums of life. And he goes, you get found guilty.

Judge Wu is going to be compelled to sentence you. He goes, how about we drop all the counts except count one? He goes, you make open plea zero to five years. He goes, Judge Wu can give you whatever he wants in between that. Would you be willing to do that? And I said, I looked at my daughter and my daughter went, you know, man, I thought I could beat it, you know. I make that deal. Yeah, I know.

So she just, she kind of like kicked me like, you stupid, you know. So we take the deal. They bring the feds back in. He basically tells them this is what we want to do. This is what I think we should do. And we went back down. We walked into Judge Wu's courtroom. And Judge Wu stopped.

He was doing another proceeding. And he goes, uh-oh. He goes, looks like we got a deal. Both clients look pissed off. And that was the deal. You know, we walked back into the courtroom. He changed my plea to guilty. and about three, four months later, he sentenced me.

And he gave me the luxury of, I could let one of my other lawyers drive me to Texas and I could submit to, I could turn myself in at the federal prison, the Latina federal prison. Nice place. You know. Good amenities. Yeah, oh, my God, it was great. You know, it's funny.

Are you familiar with the band X? with the what? The band X. Like the music band X? Yeah. I don't think so. With Exena and John Doe. I don't think so, no.

Well, Exena and I are friends. She's the singer in X. And she was writing me every week on the road. And when I first got there, I was getting these postcards from her. And her name is, you know, Exena Servenka. Yeah, there she is right there. Exena Serenka. and they thought she was some sort of Russian revolutionist.

And she was hiding. She was changing town to town each week, you know. So I got these intelligence. She said, who is this person? And why are they in a different location every week? I said, well, because I go, you guys are investigators? And they go, yeah. And I go, okay, well, she's a rock star.

And she's on the road, man. I go, come on, put some work in, you know. She's working for Putin on the road. She is. She is. Yeah, I hear you. It's kind of important. She's got some pool, man.

Yeah. She may be the one that ends this war in the Ukraine. Oh, who knows? God only knows. How many billions are we sent over there at this point? God only knows. It's like fucking 150. I lost count at this point, Adam.

You know, I don't know. You got Adam off camera, by the way, today. He's the shadow. That's right. Yeah, he made it happen last minute. Yeah, he does, man. He makes that shit happen. I hate to answer the phone when he calls sometimes.

I had to go to work. Yeah, this was, by the way, this was just so people have some context here. I guess you were trying to get in touch with me for a while, Adam. My bad did not see that. But thanks for texting me today through our friend Dave Strattweiser. But it was like 315. It's December 30th. So I'm like wrapping up the year.

And you guys are like, hey, we're in town. We can do a podcast. I'm like, great. I'm like, when are you leaving? You're like tomorrow morning. I'm like, shit. We're doing it tonight. So I appreciate you last minute.

You know what? I appreciate taking the time out of your schedule as well. Of course. This is the job, man. I hear you, man. And it's being on the road, you know, at 80s almost. I'm almost hooking up to 80, man. It's tough.

You look good. I'm feeling good. You look buff, too. I am. I've been working out. I'm going to 100. That's my goal. You're going to 100.

Yeah, I'm going for 100. Why not 110? Well, you know, I'm going to start out small. Okay. A hundred. And then. You know, if I'm feeling good, I might add five on it. And then another five, I'm going to do it a portion of time.

You look like you're still putting up two plates. Yeah, well, you know, I don't want to brag. But I will. He's going to go to the combine next year. But sorry, I cut you off from when you were talking about. We kind of like skip to somebody in here, but we're going to get to the whole story, everyone, so don't worry about that.

It's certainly a wild long tale. But when you ended up checking into prison in Texas, this was 2013 at this point? Yeah, 2013. Okay, so that 2011 indictment took a couple of years. You make the deal. How long did he sentence you to? A year and a day.

So I would get good time. Right. He goes, I'm going to sentence you a year and a day. And he goes, I'm not, I don't want you to think that's punishment. He goes, I'm going to give you a day over a year, over 365, so you get your good time. So, you know, I got out, I got a little time off for good behavior. Like 250, 270, something like that? Yeah, I don't know what it was.

I, yeah, who's counting, you know? Yeah, yeah, you know. It's just time, man. Just do a lot pull-ups in prison, right? It's just time, you know. I heard feds a lot better than state. All my guys always tell me that. See, I've got two Fed stories.

You want to hear about the feds in 86? Yes. Or you want to hear about the feds in 2013? Yes. Okay. So first time I get indicted, I've never been, I never had a pair of handcuffs on in my life. In 1986, I become the target of FBI, and I go big. I get murder for hire, conspiracy, life on one count, 20 years on the other.

I'm arrested, no big. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. But I was arrested. Right. So I decided I'm going to fight it. You know, it's a murder hoax. There was never anybody hurt, never anybody murdered.

I never reached out to the individuals that confronted me. They came to me. They came to the Ventura Clubhouse, introduced themselves under false pretenses, and came back a couple of weeks later and said, the reason I'm here is because we want to do you a favor. We want to show you some respect. And in the interim, I found out this guy's a high-ranking Mexican Mafia member. And for people out there, just so they have context,

when you say Mexican Mafia, you're not referring to the cartel. You're referring to something else. I'm referring to the M.A., the Mexican Mafia that runs the California prison system and runs Southern California. They run all the gangs in Southern California. Got it. Okay. You have a very unique system.

You have to pay homage to them. You've got to pay a tax. If you're a street gang in Los Angeles, if you're a serenio, as they identify with, if you're a serenion and you're not paying street tax to the MA, you're going to have a problem. Regardless of race or just like Latino gangs have to pay to them? Latino gangs. Okay. All right.

So you weren't paying a tax now. No, no, I'd have to pay a tax. But they said they can. came to me and said, a former associate of mine, had a $10,000 drug bill that he kind of rung up. And they were going to kill him unless,

of course, I wanted to pay the bill. And, you know, I said, no, I don't think I want to invest $10,000 in that gentleman. And they go, well, you know, we're going to kill him. And over the course of the following three weeks, I had probably 19 conversations with them. they had two of the conversations taped. They said the tape machine wasn't working on the other tape conversations.

They thought they were taping it, but they weren't. I mean, that's total bullshit. Right. But I wound up getting indicted by the FBI. This is before they had the central, you know, the Metropolitan Holding Center. I went to turmoil. It was actual prison. And if you had a beef in Southern California and Los Angeles area, you went to the terminal

island prison and they housed you there. You did your case there. You drove into court every day. Then however your case was resolved, either went home or they sent you on your way down the line. And the old gray goose, I guess they called it. We've all been there. Winter rolls around and you start digging through your closet for warmer clothes, but nothing feels quite right anymore.

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promo code Julian. When they ask you where you heard about them, please support our show and let them know I sent you. Have you been on the Great Goose? I have not. Never had the pleasure. No. I don't think I want the pleasure. Yeah, you probably, that's probably a good choice. Yeah, I'm avoiding asking some questions on this too, because I want to leave people hanging so that they understand the context of the stories we go along. Because obviously this was a big in 86, like you said, the first time, and it's, and it was all over the papers. It was on CNN. It was in the paper. CNN. was a fledgling station and uh you know i'll tell you interesting story i don't think i've told before on the air uh CNN uh did a big story with the thought i was going to get convicted and when i got found not

guilty uh they scrubbed the story and uh you know they had interviewed all these people and uh they had the story all set to go you know hell's angel leader guilty of murder for hire and And it was Hell's Angel leader, not guilty. Hell's Angel leader framed by the United States government. That wasn't quite the headline they wanted. So I came home feeling kind of bulletproof. You know, I'm, you know, in my 30s, I may have just turned 40. I'm feeling pretty strong, feeling pretty powerful.

This is right in the John Gotti era, too. You're the Teflon or the West Coast. I just beat the federal government, man. bulletproof. But there was another informant waiting for me. I guess it was a backup idea they had. And this gentleman was a Hell's Angel from Alaska. Are you familiar with the name Anthony Tate, Tony Tate?

I know Andrew Tate. No, different guy. Tony Tate was a Hells Angel from Alaska. And he decided to entrap his brothers in several of these criminal acts. And I was one of the targets. So I had just beat the case. I came home.

And when I was in federal present fighting my case for the year, Tony Tate kind of rose up through the ranks. And my position was at that time was West Coast chairman. I was kind of like a de facto leader. You know, the Hells Angels don't have an official voted-in leader. I don't know if you're aware of that. I'm not. A lot of people don't know that.

Each charter is autonomous. That's why the feds have never been successful with a racketeering charge against the Hells Angels because I'm not structured that way. We're autonomous to ourselves in each charter. We certainly have a code of conduct, if you will, and some rules and regulations. And for years, Sonny Barger, I don't know if you're familiar with Sunny.

Sonny was the top dog, right? Yeah, he was a de facto leader for the Hells Angels. I return. Tony Tate has risen through the ranks, but unbeknownst to his brothers, he's cut a deal with the feds. He didn't even have a beef. He just wanted to write a book

and get a movie made about him and set up the Hells Angels. Oh, he sang just for money. For money. Well, you know, I probably got a half a million bucks. Maybe more, I don't know. Couldn't make that the hell's angels? Well, I don't know.

You know, I thought he could have. Maybe he wasn't as enterprising as he pretended to be. I guess not. People are getting a lot of previews here. But let's go back to the beginning, George. Because like your life, the way it got here is quite unique. It's not like the you grew up in it when you were five. Your dad was in it.

And then you got initiated into it and became the whole thing. They forced me. Yeah, you had a long journey there. I did have a long journey. You grew up in California. I grew up in Ventura, California. I was born in Ventura, California. My grandparents all came in from Greece, both sides. They were all immigrants. Skatofa, Malacas. Dikaiis. And you speak Greek? No. My best friend from all my life is a dual citizen, so I know about seven words. They're mostly all bad, but I got a good accent. I know. I was thinking that that wasn't the kindest things you were saying.

Yeah, no, I don't know. That means, I think, like, what, shit-face asshole or something? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I wasn't calling you. But I was a Tanya person. Yeah, yeah, no. So, you know, my family was very traditional. I came from a small family.

I was firstborn, and then my mom had some complications. And, you know, back in those days, you know, your parents didn't discuss with you. Well, mommy can't have any more babies because of this, you know, it was, you know, I have no brothers and sisters. Right. And that's basically how I was brought. up you know my mother tried to have a another child and it didn't happen and I wasn't going to have any brothers and sisters so it was for a Greek family is relatively small but you know I had a lot of cousins a lot of aunts a lot of uncles I got my

first taste of a motorcycle in probably 1955 56 I was in the San Fernando Valley with my father and there was a motorcycle cycle coming up the street and when it got to the stoplight he stopped and he immediately caught my attention and it was the first really outlaw i'd ever saw this guy had a cut off on it big black boots with a big buckle on it uh black hair pulled back sunglasses pushed up on his head and everybody you know it almost seemed like time sort of stood still and everybody was watching him everybody seemed fearful of him my father seemed a little uncomfortable and then suddenly the light changed he dropped his glasses threw it in gear bam he was gone and uh the man talking to my father

through a tirade he was a he had a thick italian accent accent and he looked at me and he said look at him he's a god damn animal and then he spit on the ground he looked at me that's your america And I thought, yeah, that's my American man. And metaphorically, I jumped on the, I don't even know if metaphorically is a word, but I, but it is, thank you. I jumped on the back of that motorcycle and I was gone. You know, it wasn't another 10 years until I got a bite,

but that image never left me. That outlaw spirit somehow captured me that day. And I just, I liked, I don't know, maybe I was rebellious. I liked how people respond. responded to him. I thought, this guy is controlling the whole narrative here. And he's not even doing anything, man. He's just being himself. He didn't look at anybody. He was, in a sense, he was passive except for the loud motorcycle. And, you know, like I said, he was gone in an instant. Quiet power in a way. Yeah. A loud presence. Loud presence. Quiet power. Unassuming power. But you knew he had power of some sort. And, uh, You know, shortly after that, I discovered that I came from a poor family. I wanted to remember Bob's big boys? Do you even know that?

I do know that term, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bob's Big Boy had just opened, and we lived in Anaheim at the time, and there were Bob's Big Boys everywhere. These are the burgers, right? Yeah, Bob's Big Boy, man. 19 cents. Yeah.

You get a burger a few more cents now. Yeah, a few more. So I kept telling my dad, I gotta have one of them burgers, Dad. I gotta have one of them burgers. And my mom and dad, you know, they're talking in Greek. I don't speak fluent, but I understand, you know, they're thinking of a way for us to get the burger. And I'm not thinking about the money.

I'm thinking about the burger, you know. And so my dad, I see the burger stand, my dad pulls in and he did something we never did before. He opens all the doors of the car and he takes the seats out. And he starts rifling through the dust balls and stuff under the seat. And they're looking for money. And I'm tripping out and I'm thinking, wow, this is really cool.

You know, not only am I going to get a burger, we're on a treasure hunt. And then people were stopping and they were looking at us and they were laughing. I thought I was laughing. I thought they were laughing with us, man. And my mom, dad started talking Greek and I looked at my mom. My mom was staring at those people. And if death, you know, death ray, man. Oh, yeah.

And I, all of a sudden, it just, it was like an epithony. I'd realize, man, we were poor. We were scraping the bottom of the seat for money. What did your parents do? My dad, my mom didn't work. My dad was either a truck driver, a bartender, or a chef. And I think he walked off more jobs than he ever held. you know, he's one of them guys.

You piss him off. You just walk off the job. There's the rebel streak. Perhaps. The rebel streak I got from my dad, but the mean streak, I think I got from my mom. That would make sense. It's very Greek. Yeah, it is very Greek, isn't it?

Yeah. So, you know, I realized we were poor. And I referenced back to that outlaw. And I thought about him on that street corner. I thought about the way people acted. And I thought, you know what? I'm not going to let people laugh at me, man. Did you juxtapose him with like your dad

and kind of look at him as a powerful figure and maybe look at your dad as lesser? You know, and I'm ashamed to say that, but you absolutely hit it on the head. And I was thinking, you know, why can't you be like that? Why can't you assert yourself? Why can't we have money? Why do we have to take the seats out of the car

and look for money and have people laughing? at us. Right. And so, you know, that's that story, I wrote a stage play. Are you familiar with Outlaw Chronicles? You wrote a stage play too? Yeah. I did a lot in your life. I did a stage play. I went across country. No shit. And if you look it up, the outlaw, George Christie outlaw stage play, the reviews are killer, man. And I got, voted one of the top five shows in Las Vegas the week we were there and uh that's a yeah here it is 2018 yeah riding into the limelight former hell's angel George Christie hits the stage without law and then here's the full article this is on vcreporter.com people can

Google this right there very cool yeah and so you know a one man show one man show one two hours stellar reviews of I don't think it was managed properly we didn't lose any money didn't really make any money you know made enough money to go across country and I think maybe that was good enough right for a stage play but I one of the lines of the stage plays I described that you know I get very animated up on the stage and I describe it and and then I look at the audience and I tell him you know That day, I decided I was never going to scrape for money again. Right.

And I, you know, for a while, a long time there, until the cops took it all, I ran around with four or five thousand dollars in my pocket at a time, you know. And everybody on my crew had money, you know, nobody was broke, including my parents. I made sure that they got taken care of. And later that came back to bite me in 2001 when my mom took the stand in one of my trials. It's a very funny, unique story. I don't know if you want to tell it in chronological order. If you like me to...

We can skip around real fast on that. So was your mom like subpoenaed to testify, I guess, by the state? Well, this is what we were going to do. We were going to use equity in her house and her bank money to bail me out. My bail was a million dollars, and we were trying to put it together. So my mother, my mother's house had been raided. and they were looking for ways to tie us in together. So my mom gets up in the stand,

and the prosecutor tells her, he goes, so, Georgia, a good boy? She was, he's a very good boy. And he goes, oh, really? And how's he good? She goes, he takes care of his mother. Oh, he does. Did you give you money?

Of course he gives me money. Has he ever made your house payment? Of course he made money. Yeah, exactly. Heard him in the back going like this. he goes she goes of course he makes my house payment i told you he's a good boy and uh so the the prosecutor looks at the judge and says your honor the money's commingled the money's no good you know we cannot use mrs christie's money to help her son either in bail or with payment to the

lawyers it's tainted and my mother figures out and she's looking at me she figures out what's going on. So she looked at the prosecutor. She looked at the judge and she looks at the prosecutor because you think it's funny to fool an old lady? She goes, you know what? You're not very nice. My son's nice, but you're not very nice. And so she looks at the judge now, what you have to remember is when they raided my mom's house, she had $15,000 hidden under the mattress. It was her gambling money. Oh, she's a gambler. Yeah, it was her gambler and money. So she told the judge it. She goes, I'll tell you another thing, Your Honor.

She goes, I want my goddamn gambling money back. I want it fair and square. And you know what? The judge gave it back to her. He ordered it back to her. No one wants a Greek lady. No. And you know what was unique about it?

The judge says, look, Ms. Christie, we're not going to be able to use your money to help your son. But we're going to give you your 15,000 back. God damn right. She goes, how has that stand? She goes, it sounds goddamn good. That's exactly what she said. been around Greek ladies. And so my mom, we were trying to put this bail to go. So we had to change course. And we wound up. Are you familiar with what a property bond is? Remind me. In the state of California,

you can use equity and property. So if your bail's a million dollars, you have to give a two million in equity. You have to double it. So what we did is we put up 2.4.4. $4 million in equity and property. And I bailed out, but it took me a year to get out. It was a long journey, long process. Unfortunately, I was in solitary confinement the whole time, isolated from everybody. Had a protective order. What's that like?

Well, you can't talk to anybody. So there was nobody I could talk to, could talk to my lawyer, talk to my bail bondsman. but my wife and I were estranged at the time, but they arrested her. They arrested my son because they were holding my family hostage. They wanted me, and they were trying to get me to make a deal. And ultimately, you know, I made a deal. But the case, they had a 59 count state racketeering charge.

It collapsed under its own weight. 59 counts? 59 counts of state racketeering. That's a few counts. It is a few counts. You can count on me. Wow. I probably shouldn't be cavalier and laugh about it.

There's probably some investigator out there going, he has not learned his lesson. You seem like you learned your lesson of me. Yeah, you know. You seem at peace with things. I am at peace with things. You know, look, this is the deal. Those guys are cops, right?

Hells Angels are outlaws. They're supposed to come after us. Shop and he's a criminal. So I have no animosity towards them, and I have no hard feelings. and, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, I was on the History Channel. Outlaw Chronicles.

Are you familiar with that? I think I have heard that, actually. I had a six-episode series on The Outlaw Chronicles. And just to show there was no hard feelings, the Bradbury, the Ventura prosecutor, the head attorney, I invited him to come on the History Channel and debate me, but he declined. So he's still not willing to be total friends with you?

No, but, you know, we had coffee. together and I said, look, this is an opportunity for you to tell your story. And it's an opportunity for me to tell the truth. I've had two different kinds of people in here who have had run-ins with the law over the years, because I've had many, over the many episodes we've done. That's one subcategory we've done. But there's some guys who, and I would characterize you as one of them, who kind of got it, like you understood, this is the way things are, this is the life you chose, and this is the game you play. And it's, funny. Like my one friend Luis Navia

was the chief international smuggler for the cartels for like 25 years. And he got caught and all the, you know, it was like 15 different countries catching him in this sting in Venezuela in like 2000. They called him the Greek. He wasn't Greek.

You know, I think I've heard that reference to the Greek before. Probably. It was in the wire. What year was, okay. So it was initial. That's where I know it from. Because I remember that whole little Greek crew were down and they were doing all this stuff yeah and i did they get away in the wire that was season two i think i haven't watched the wire in a while it's one of the best shows i'm thinking that they

somehow got away with it something happened and uh and that's the way police shit happens yeah some people walk sometimes the people that go down aren't that complicit and uh all right i want to talk about something most guys don't think about until it starts to actually become a problem i may not be old but even I've learned over the years that the things that quietly shape your health are usually the ones you don't really notice until they start to decline. Circulation is one of those things. What's interesting, though, is that literally everything in your body depends on blood flow. Energy, focus, recovery, even how resilient you feel day to day. And one of the key drivers of healthy circulation is nitric oxide.

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So once again, the link to get this product is Bloodflow7.com slash Julian, linked in my description below, where you are going to get a generous 30% off and a money back guarantee. which I don't think you're going to need. Again, that's bloodflow7.com slash Julian. Give it a shot. I think you'll notice a difference almost immediately. You know, it was funny when the day I got sentenced, Judge Clark, who I always thought didn't like me. He scolded the district attorney publicly. He said, I don't understand. He goes, why are you coming after Mr. Christie? He goes, I don't see any complicity at all. I mean, he said this in open court. He was, but yet you indict him and he goes you're holding his family hostage what's going on here and they my my son who i

didn't know somehow had this desire to be a pharmacist brought a million vicodin into town uh pharmacist yeah i like i put that yeah he brought a million vicodin into town his friend joshua adams who was a uh air force airman was head of the uh pharmaceuticals in the sick bay for the air force at the i forget what navy air force base it was and he was in charge of the viking and so he was you know 100 000 for the air force 100 000 for uh yeah you had no knowledge of this no i have no knowledge that's right you know i'm suspicions okay you know but uh you know i don't like to butt in other people's business going going back to seeing the outlaw though when you were 10 prior to that day did you have hear of hearing

or people you looked up to. And I mean, even your parents too. My grandfather. My grandfather, Harry, I'll tell you a story about Harry. You want to know about Harry. We called him the governor. He sat at the head of the table when we ate. And you didn't touch a utensil until he literally broke or cut the bread.

And then that started the meal. He would break the bread or cut the bread, depending on what type of bread was out. And that's how the meal started. And of course, my cousin Johnny, and I talked about him earlier off-camera, the piano player. Oh, yeah, yeah. We would try to sneak a piece of food. And then, Yaya would, you know, she'd smack us, you know, because we were trying to get some food just to get over, you know. And, you know, they started at a young age.

My grandmother used to always tell me, you know, you're a very bad boy, Georgie. But Yaya loves you, you know. And so I always figured, hell, I can get away with this shit. And they'll still love me, you know. And there was a wrong message to send to me. But anyways, I'll joke and aside. I'm not joking. I go into the, he's a shoe cobbler.

And he came over from Greece. With your parents? At the same time? Yeah, yeah, but did you come at the same time? No, I'll tell you the story. My grandfather came first. Okay. He was 25 or 26.

My grandmother got on the boat. Now, they were betrothed to each other. They hardly knew each other. but they were betrothed in in greece she was 12 when she got on the boat when she arrived here she was 13 and uh they got married and they lived together for 70 years just you know old school man different time yeah different time old school so he's out there cobbling in the shoe repair shop every day making shoes repairing shoes a real smart guy and in fact i'll tell you something inside he had i went out to him one day and i said papu this is i'm grown up and i said you got to

teach me how to be a shoe repairman and a shoe maker and he looked at me and at the time i thought this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard i said teach me babu come on he goes georgie he was in the future people won't fix shoes they'll just throw them away people will wear shoes and they'll make so many shoes they'll just toss him and i thought i go they'll never do that and You know, here we are, right. He was right, man. And this is a guy that never, ever went to school. I mean, he didn't have one day of formal education,

and he was a smart man. So my cousin, Johnny and I, we used to borrow like 20 cents from him. It was a pharmacy on the corner of where we lived or he lived. I lived with him sometimes just for the summer. We go down there and get a Coke, and they give you a shot of cherry juice. and that we were making cherry coats back in the 50s. So I go, you asked him, Johnny. No, you ask him, Georgie.

So I finally, I think I asked him. So I went to him, I go, Papu, Papu, Papu. I go, we want to borrow 25 cents. We want to go to the pharmacy and get a Coke. He stops, he's working on the shoes, he stops, picks up a rag, and he's wiping his hands off. And he's staring at us. And he's scaring his shit

out of me. And I'm thinking, why is he looking at me like that? He goes, 25 cents, huh? We go, yeah, Papu. He has a little book he carries in his front pocket, you know, with the old school, with the plastic. Pocket protector. Yeah, he pulls out the book. He's looking at me and he's flipping the pages. He looks at Johnny, he looks at me, he goes, I can't do it. What do you mean? He goes, you still owe a 20 cents. And he's, you know, he said, I said, but Papu.

And he goes, no, no. He says, you told me you pay me back. He goes, you didn't ask for the money. You asked for a loan. I gave you a loan and you didn't pay me back. Of course, you know, we went into the house crying the yaya and she gave us the money, you know. Oh, yeah. And they went around him.

Yeah, oh, yeah. You know, we learned how to do that real quick. Went down, got her cherry cook. But, you know, that's the governor, man. You know, it's kind of, kind of, very stoic. He worked until he was 85. he had cataracts on his eyes. Are you familiar with cataracts?

I just had in a eye doctor expert, Joseph Allen, and he was explaining the entire thing, but all that, yeah. Now, when you get old, you're going to get cataracts, man. And I guess everybody gets cataracts. I drive a rinkin. Yeah, I know you do. But you're going to get a cataract at some point. Adam got it.

Yeah, I know. I got it too. Adam, you know, he's back. He's kind of like, you know, he's my straight man. That's right. you need one of those yeah you do you know and you should see our comedy act it's this amazing oh you guys got a two-man well we're we're we're working it together you know we're not ready to go on the road but at some point in time okay the only problem is i can't get into can't get into canada

so oh they don't let you up there they don't let me up there we could work on that no no no new zealand no austral no new zealand that's such a random one i know man you know Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting the goddamn crown. My passport's flagged. The last time I went to... What about the fake one? Well, the fake one.

I mean, you know, I don't want to talk about that. You said we wouldn't talk about that. So, you know, he weren't... He had cataracts. He can hardly see. I mean, he's feeling... I'm watching him going, Papu, can you see? This is I'm growing up now.

Popu, can you see? You know? And this is right before he retired. And he couldn't see. And I remember going, I remember going to the rest home where we had to put him at home. He couldn't, you know, something I'm hoping I don't have to look forward to. But, and he was starting to get kind of dementia. And he thought the Bolsheviks were coming, something to do with the Russian.

Revolution, you know, because of the goddamn Volkosso vizs are everywhere. I was like, fuck, you know, boo. Go to sleep, grandpa. Yeah. So, you know, I mean,

that's, there's a guy I respected, I respected him, and there was a little fear there, you know, as well. Again, I think there's a theme there. You know, obviously he's different from the outlaw,

biker, but you talk about the guy that you knew him as a young kid is sitting at the head of the table. He cuts the bread first. Right. He, You said stoic, so quiet power in that way, right?

Very real about the world. He gave advice to you as well. I see where that's coming from. Yeah, yeah. I mean, very traditional morals foundation. I mean, it's great, you know. From there, I go into the Marine Corps. Did you always want to be in the Marines?

No, I got pissed off at my high school principal. Why? He accused me of cheating on IQ. and, you know, it was, you know, you stop and think about this. You're bringing a kid in that finally gets bad grades. He's dyslexic. They don't know. Yeah, they don't know what, they don't even know what dyslexic.

It's not even, you know, a title for it. Yeah. They don't know what it is, you know, I'm, you know, I can't focus. I can't read the pages, you know, the numbers are jumping around. The letters are jumping around. You know, I spend my time looking at it. out the window because it's just a white roar like the teachers up there talking and it's just like i'm just not right getting it man it's just like white noise you know so take this test

i ace it somehow i don't know what the score was they don't tell you the score and i don't know how they grade it but they call me in the office and he accused me of cheating and i said and he goes you're cheating man He goes, your grades suck. He goes, you grade suck. And he goes, you're scoring high on here. He goes, you got the book. I know you have the answer book.

And we want you to give it to us. And I thought to myself, you know, not only are they accusing me of cheating. I left that office, the vice principal, Mr. Killingsworth. I still remember him. I can see him right now sitting across from me. I'm not going to lunge at you, even though I can see his. image right now. But I, I can see him. And I thought to myself, I'm going to leave this office. And nothing has been achieved. He's calling me a thief. And I'm telling him I didn't do it.

He can't prove I stole it. I can't prove I didn't have it. We're in a stalemate. I thought, if this is polite society, you know what, fuck you guys. I don't want nothing to do with it. And that night I told my dad, I was going to join the Marines, man, I'm out of here. I'm going to quit school. And he goes, no, no, no, you're not going to quit school. And you have to understand, like, not a lot of education in my family. For me, graduating from high school, my dad quit school in the sixth grade. My mom finished.

My grandfather never went to school. None of my grandparents went to school. Getting a high school diploma was like a college diploma. You know, it was a graduation. Yeah. He goes, you've got to graduate. And I said, no, I want to join the Marines. And I made a deal with them.

They said, you finish high school and graduate. Your mom and I will sign up. There was a Marine Reserve Unit right in town. And all my buddies were joining. And so I... Is this right when Vietnam was breaking? Yeah. So I was 17.

Both parents signed for me. You had to get both signatures from the parents when you were 17. In 1966, man, I took the... oath to join the Marines. In February of 1965, it took the oath. February 66, I left on the bus. And let me tell you the kind of humor my family has. My father was a CB, World War II.

Oh, wow. My mother was a Marine. My mother was a Marine. World War II. Mom was a savage. Yes, she was a savage, man. So check it out. What does my dad do?

He thinks it's really fun. fucking funny, he calls the newspaper and said, my son's going in the Marines. He's following in his mother's footsteps. And the fucking headline in the newspaper, the day I left for boot camp, everybody's sitting on the bus and they all had a copy of the paper. Oh, my God. And it's, you know, I walk on the bus and everybody starts clowning me. And I'm going, what the hell's going on, man?

And it's, I look at the, they show me the paper. Son follows in mother's footsteps, leaving for U.S., you know, you know, for the, for the Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego. And I'm just like fuming, man. My dad thought that was a funniest goddamn thing every day. It is kind of fun. It is funny. Now that I reflect back, imagine being 18 years old.

Not great. Not great. I wasn't happy. Did you have when, you know, there's something else that happened in my life unrelated when I was younger as well where like. Packed you? Yes. Positively or negatively?

Where I was accused by a principle of doing something I didn't do. You're bastards. aren't they? You know what I mean? And you know that feeling. Like when you actually did something wrong, you're like, ah, shit, I'm caught. But like when you're like, no, like I didn't do this and you're dead serious and they're like, no, you did, fuck you. It's the worst feeling ever. And you know what's really, for me, I don't know for you. I want to hear you tell me, but getting up and walking out and I'm looking over my shoulder and there's fucking killings you with fucking mad dogging me. Like, I know you fucking stole that fucking answer book. Exactly. I know exactly. They wouldn't concede? Yeah, they're dug in. They're like, you did it. And what was the incident?

For me, it was, yeah, it was when I was 11, there was a dodge ball game that happened at recess. And a bunch of kids on one side were throwing, were like launching Nerf balls at the kid. It was like kind of the, you know, like a little bit of the runt of the class and whatever and was always picked on and stuff like that. So he was getting balls launched at him.

And to this day, I don't think those guys were like trying to bully him or anything, but because they were all launching the balls at him and then he was crying afterwards. Like, oh my God, this was an attack and bullying. Meanwhile, there were a bunch of people actually getting around him and like defending him. Oh, really? And I was actually one of those people.

Defending it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it all happened so fast. You got accused of aggressing. I was accused of aggressing a bully. A teacher who previously didn't like me walked up to me after they pulled the whole class aside and said, people are going down for this. she walked up to me after that and said,

I know you had something to do with this. You're going down. Conspiracy. Yeah, yeah, basically. I was like, what the fuck? And I was the farthest thing from like the cool kid or anything like that. What year was this? I was in fifth grade.

Year? 2005? Yeah, yeah. I'm fucking old, man. Hey, listen, you told me to give the year. Yeah, I know. And, you know, I wish now I had asked. Yeah.

But, you know, it's a scary thing because then they call you into the office. office, you got the principal in there you got, and, and I'm like, my mom was a school teacher. So I'm like, oh, shit, she's going to take their side. She's going to assume the teacher's not lying. And did she? Yes. And I at first was like, no, I had nothing to do with this. And then they, like, the next Monday or two, it was a Friday. And then Monday or Tuesday, they had us all going, like the auditorium for recess. And they're like, we know there's more of you out there. We know exactly who did it. If you don't turn yourself in by three o'clock, you're getting expert. And I sat there as like a scared little kid, only child as well, I relate to you.

And I was like, they're just going to say I did this. And would I rather just like go down and get in a lot of trouble and, you know, maybe my dad beat the shit out of me for this and just take it on the chin? Or would I want to get expelled and have it way worse? So I went in there and said, and said, I did the whole thing. None of the other guys did anything. I went, I was like a legend. The martyr. Yeah.

Yeah. They still, a bunch of them went down, but they were like, we were like getting punished for it in detention for weeks after that. And they're like, why? God damn, you know, good for you. But why are you here? Did you ever tell your mom and dad later? I did. I told her four years later.

And she felt so bad. She was like, I would have believed you. And in hindsight, I feel good. You made her feel bad? No. No. No. No, because I think I was just, I think I was at the age where I was just like, again, like, I wasn't like the cool kid or anything.

I was just like a little scared and I was like, you know what? You see, you and I have a similar story, you know, like when I pled guilty in 2013 to the, you know what, my count, my final count was my daughter was to Hammond and work and they dropped count eight, you know, the mandatory minimum of life for the arson and use of control. I was facing two major detentions just to compare these, you know. Yeah, I want this all to be. Relative. You know what my final charge was? What was that? Interfaring, interstate transportation.

What the fuck is that? Transportation? Yeah. Of what? I don't know. He's like, oh, I don't. You know, I had somebody write me or, I can't remember where I was. I was somewhere, somebody asked me, I was doing the show, and they asked me, well, what did you finally play guilty?

I go, I don't know, guilty of interstate transportation or something. And I didn't, I said, I said, you don't understand. I go, because he accused me a line. He goes, no, you know what you got found guilty. Would you really get found? I go, look, man, it's a felony. I go, does it matter what it is? You know, as long as it's not something that's forbidden within the prison system

where you get stabbed when you go in there, I go, what do I care what I'm found guilty of? You never went to an island in the Caribbean, right? No, I did not. Not, uh, there's no pictures anyways. That's good, because there's pictures of everybody. Is it? So, who's... I saw a picture Adam down there.

No, fucking. Adam's like, freaking out. It's okay, man, you can bring it out. You know, we've already been told we got a phone call. Someone was saying, like, you know, because obviously Jeffrey Epstein is like one of the most sadistic evil people ever walk this earth. But like, as a side note, looking at all these pictures, they're like, this guy networked with everyone. Like, why did he have to be a pedophile?

Why not just, like, write a book on how to network? Right. I mean, he knew fucking. It's insane. No, like, I haven't been keeping up on the news the last couple. They've been busy. So, who's the latest revelation? Who's been revealed?

I know. He had a picture with Walter fucking Kronkite. I have a picture of Walter up there. Yeah, I like. Like, I love Walter. He had a picture of Walter Kronkite, like, sitting there on a couch, talking with like, you know, an 85-year-old Walter Cronkite. I'm like there's no, like you just see person after person.

We've heard people over the years and everything, but it's like he just, he was a sick, sick man who just found a way to schmooze everyone. I mean, I've had people sitting in that seat who were at the island. And, you know, look, this is the deal. How much complicity did the government have in Florida when they made that initial? bargain. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, they knew what he did and, you know, he was going home every day.

Crazy. Yeah. I couldn't even get bail. This guy's going home every day. Like, wait a minute. Massage. And, you know, I shouldn't make fun because now I know someone's going to go. There were victims.

Oh, no, no. We know that. Yeah. Yeah, I know that, you know. We all know what a sick guy he was. It's just like it's sickly comical how in your face it is and how in your face he was the whole time. Right. And it took that long for people to say anything.

And now they're like, yo, oh, nothing to see here. Right. Don't worry about it. It's crazy to me. Yeah, I get it, you know. I'll reserve my comment on. I hear you on that. Yeah.

But you, so. Even though I didn't say it, you hear me. Yeah. So you, did you like have a lot? I think I started to ask you this, but we got off it. Did you have a lot of friends in high school as well? I had a little crew I ran with. And I was a kind of an outlaw surfer guy.

Oh, man, yeah. And then a lot of the guys that I, that little crew that I surfed with, they started surfing off to motorcycles, you know. Stevie Binger got a motorcycle. My buddy, he wasn't a surfer. David Brown got a motorcycle. We all started getting motorcycles. Michael's Paul Hibbitt who became the have you seen Altamont the movie Give Me Shelter?

No. Have you Paul Animal Hibbitts is the guy at Altamont that's running around with the fox head on. Him and I went to elementary school together and then high school put Paul Animal Hibbitts and Yeah, because I was going to say, give me shelter. There's one of my favorite songs of all time. Yeah. But what's his name? Paul.

Animal Hibbitts. Hibbitts. Hells Angels. There he is right there. Well, no, that's not. Yeah. Biker subculture, famous for his distinction,

for had an association. If you go, scroll down. Okay. And you see Animal and I. Animal Hibbitts right there, Altamont Star. See me and Animal Together. Oh, wow.

There you are. Yeah, that's Animal and myself. Oh, shit. Santa Claus looking guy. Yes. but animal put on that hat, that coyote hat or wolf hat, whatever it is. Like the Davey Crockett kind of thing? Yeah, but it's a big one.

You should ask for a picture of it up there, but he put it on. He found out the Maisley brothers were going to be filming at Altamont, and he didn't want to be recognized. So he wore this hat thinking that he would just be. be some obscure person and everybody wanted to know who the guy was in the uh animal hat let me see you see one up there adam third from the right yeah he is he's talking to the stones manager there wow that is that is a hell of a hat so he wrote he wore that hat thinking no one to recognize him and you know he becomes the star of altamont the um you know winning the unknown

star and we'd laugh for years about that i go annie you want to stay under cover and put a hat on today yeah but he gets a motorcycle all these guys get motorcycles yeah and we you know we start i become a los angeles hells angel he becomes a uh a oakland hells angel now is this after the marines at this point where are we on your timeline okay we're all hanging out with the question marks and we're like getting out of high school. I'm getting ready to go in the Marines. But this is the crew. These are the people I'm hanging with.

And then I go away to the Marines and then I come back. A little side note. Animal is the guy that knocked Marty Ballin from the Jefferson Airplane. Do you remember in the movie when Grace goes, well, Hell's Angels just knocked out Marty Ballons. Do you remember that? I don't remember that. You don't remember. Oh, you got to remember.

No. Come on. Grace Slick You're killing me on some references So great, I'm the trivia king, man Yeah Grace Slicks gets mad And she's talking shit

The Hells Angels just knocked Out our singer And so Sweet William grabs the microphone from Grace Slick And he starts talking shit back to her And Marty Ballin got smart with the animal And

There's Gracie Yeah, there it is The phrase is is a lyric of story about Jefferson Airplane singer Marty Balling getting punched by a Hells Angel? Yeah, that was Animal. Wow. He knocked him out. And they were friends.

And Animal told him, Marty, don't tell me to get fucked. And there's two things you don't do to Hell's Angel. You don't tell him to get fucked and you don't call him a punk. And other than that, you know, you're probably going to be okay. I won't do either. Okay, great. So Marty says to Animal, you know, you guys got to quit beating people up. And Animal says, they're pushing the bikes, Marty.

And he goes, you know what, Animal, fuck you. And Animal goes, Marty, what did you just say? And he goes, fuck you, Animal. And Animal said, I mean, you need to apologize. And Marty said, fuck you, fuck you. And on the third, fuck you, Animal knocked him out. Man of his word. Yeah.

He had to. You get your warning. You got to do it. especially on the third warning, you know, the third, fuck, you let him have it. But animal, uh, uh, he knocked Marty out, ruined our relationship. We were friends with the airplane before that. And that was that. That was it, man.

We tried to reconstruct it in the early 80s. And, uh, you know, it was just a big mess. You know, the Rolling Stones owed his $50,000 because Alan Bizarro killed, uh, Meredith Hunter there. Remember Meredith Hunter was killed? Yeah. Wait, you guys had something to do with that? Alan Bizarro, Hells Angel from San Jose. Meredith Hunter pointed a gun at the stage, and Alan stabbed him.

All right, so he was standing his ground. Yeah, right? Yeah. It's a legal defense. Alan or Meredith? Both? Both, yeah. Well, Alan was found not guilty.

Justifiable homicide because of the gun. And the Rolling Stones had promised to pay the legal. fees if anybody got in trouble at the event because we were doing like free we said we take care of the people keep them away from the stage oh you're doing security for free well someone died yeah well you know we try to contribute when we can uh not well you know things got out of hand you know but so meredith got killed Alan got arrested there was a subsequent trial got found not guilty, justifiable homicide,

but the bill was $50,000. So when we went to the stones, you got to pay the 50 grand. Jagger didn't want to pay it. Yeah. And after he found out that we had Senate team to blow up his yacht. Allegedly.

No, we had somebody actually testified in the Senate subcommittee here. It's on the... All right. I was just trying to help you out. It was on the Internet. Well, I want to be honest, too. I don't want to walk away from this. You know, we didn't color this in any way, you know, just nothing but the truth, so help me God.

But now people are probably laughing. Yeah. But so the stones finally gave us to $50,000. That's nice. Yeah, it was. But you don't text with them today, I assume. Well, you know, invited Keith Richards on my podcast a couple of times that I haven't heard back from. We'll make it happen.

Make it happen. I don't know. You know what? Get him here. I'll come here and Keith and I will hash it out. I will fucking do that podcast in a second. Okay, well, let's do it, you know? I got mushrooms in there for Keith, too.

Do you? We'll have a good time. You know who gave me my first batch of mushrooms? Jefferson Airplane. Jerry Garcia. From the fucking, like Grateful Dead. No, Jerry and I were good friends. You were friends with Jerry Garcia from the Grateful Dead.

Yeah, I used to pick him up at the airport when he flew into town in the 70s. It was a whole different ball game back. there was no security when did you join hell's angels officially i officially i started writing in 1966 yeah i officially came around in the mid 70s so i had like 10 years so you were even making connections long before you were technically in the hells angels yes i was networking you were a writer you and don't compare me to geoffrey that's right that's right you're networking without the rapy stuff without the massage that's right exactly they just must be very clear on that you don't want to be misheard so you're you're not

You're just into biking and because of that and because of some of the people you run. It opened a lot of doors for me. Yeah, sex drugs and rock and roll kind of type deal. That's why I joined. Yeah. You know, I mean, who wouldn't? Yeah. How long were you in the Marines?

From 66 to 70, I can't remember. 70 or 71. I was in a Marine Reserve Rifle Unit. And then I got in trouble. and I left the Marines I went to work for the Department of Defense. Wait, you got in trouble and graduated up to the Department of Defense? I had a pretty good record with the Marines. Until the end.

Until the had a problem with a gunry sergeant. What kind of problem? Well, he kept harassing me and I challenged him to a duel. Under like the penal code. the state kind of thing? No, like gentlemen, a duel, a gentleman. Yeah, but aren't there states that allow that? Like Texas allows that, right?

I don't think they do, but if they did, I should have took him to Texas. Yeah. But he didn't want to, he declined the challenge and turned me in. Just for challenging them, though? Yeah. You didn't like whip out a gun, did you? Well, I had a rifle. We were on the rifle range.

Yeah, but did you whip it out and hold it to him? Well, I held it to my side. I said, draw. So I don't know if that could be consistent. So it didn't come, like it didn't point in his direction. I'm trying to help you as a little. I know you are. I appreciate that, you know.

Where were you all my life? Misunderstanding, I guess. When I was getting indicted. Yeah. So they, so you leave the Marines because of that. I leave the Marines. I go to work for the Department of Defense. How do you end up working for the Department of Defense after like leaving the Marines

under those circumstances? I had some pretty high scores. Pretty good training. You know, did fairly well. What did they want you to do at Department of Defense? I had a top secret security clearance. I worked, it's a downrange missile range. But in the midst of everything,

and Santa Cruz Island was a submarine surveillance system. We were in the Cold War with Russia at the time. And my job was to maintain, keep the phone service up. So if the Russian sub showed up, we would have a direct line to Washington so we could get the okay for the commander to launch an attack. serious stuff whoa yeah and there was one in uh Santa Cruz Island and there was one in

northern California and I was kind of took over the one in Santa Cruz I kept that maintained and it was classified at the time it's now declassified it you may be able to look it up I don't know you know how did like how did you get recruited to that did someone call you and say like meet me at a hotel no what kind of deal Well, when after I got court-martial, the Navy intelligence guys showed up, said, would you be interested in working for the Department of Defense? Tendant Aldo Raines, like, I respect your work. That's right. Yeah, one of those kind of deals.

Yeah. So. And then later in 1978, they found out I was leader of the Los Angeles, Hells Angels. And they called me in the office and they said, no, they said, look, are you really in the Hells Angels? And I said, yes, I am. They go, we thought you were joking about all that stuff. And I go, no, I'm in the Hells Angels. And they said, we're going to take your security clearance away because Hells Angels can't have a security clearance.

And they said, you've got to either quit the Hells Angels or you're done here. And so I left. I quit. All right. I have a thought, but I want to wait on it because I want to clear this up. So how many years were you doing your classified work there? Eight years. Eight years.

Yeah. 178 was my last year but in the midst of it you join the Hells Angels yeah we don't call him a game like your club thank you very much and your audience thanks you

at least the motorcycle part of it contingency again I'm holding the thought here but I know I know you are and I'm going to remind you that you're holding a thought okay all right so obviously you love motorcycles

you love riding you like the rebel aspect of that. We talked about the guy that you kind of respected, like, when you were 10 years old, and you kind of wanted to be that. That all makes sense. But like, did you know what the hell's angels fully was when you went to join? Meaning, like, did you look at this and go? I thought it was riding and partying in Brotherhood. Did you, and it turned out to be. Was there a sea there, though, too? Like criminals? Did you know they were criminals? You know, don't confuse outlaws with criminals or criminals without loss that sounds like don't confuse like water and wetness like you know uh look sometimes criminals you know originally started out as outlaws and they become criminals you know

i can always consider myself an outlaw i had no interest in uh you know it's would you be surprised but i told you i never voted you know you're a rebel i yeah i didn't they even wrote a long about me. So I'm not trying to get like too technical. No, go ahead and get technical as you want. But like... And be candid. Just say what you want.

The definition of... You're full as shit, George. There's a part of me going, you kind of are with that definition because the literal definition about law is a person who has broken the law, especially one who remains at large or is a fugitive. Right. Isn't that... Well, I mean, you know, little here, a little there.

I mean, that's my interpretation. I mean, I'm an out of... I can interpret it in any way of one, right? So outlaws don't go to prison. Do you think, well, yeah, they can, you know. Don't confuse the, you know, criminal and the outlaw. There's a difference. But sometimes outlaws are pushed to criminal behavior.

They've got to survive. Do you think Einstein was an outlaw? A lot of people sure thought he was a wing nut. I would have never, I'm like kind of wondering. if that's a trick question. No, it's not a trick question. I would have to you and earnest. Yeah.

I mean, personally, no. Maybe I have to, like, think about his life more. I don't think he was an outlaw. I think he was a, uh, I do think he was a scientific rebel for sure. I think a lot of the great scientists are scientific rebels. But I think there's a difference like I'm a rebel. You know, look, I'll concede. I know, I know what you're saying.

Yeah. There's really validity. And I know there's a lot of people out there go, and this guy's foolish shit. you know what that's the way I lived my life I live my life live and let live a type of situation I worked for the government had a good job interesting I when I lost my job at the government

I put food on my family on my table for my family anyway I could and my thought was hey you know what I was here I was doing a job I didn't have one write-up and all those years I worked for the feds never got in trouble, never got reprimanded for anything. Did you like what you did? Yeah, I was good at it. Never got accused of anything. And they want to cast me out.

Hey, that's cool. But don't judge me for how I take care of my family. I wasn't going to be like my father digging through dust balls on the floorboard of my car. I got it. Okay. You know, and if I had to break the law doing it, I'm not conceding that I ever did. Hey, you know what? Cops investigated me inside and out.

And I'll tell you, I can honestly tell you, I look in the eye and say, they never got me for anything I ever did. I went to jail three times for things I didn't do. But what happened was I got put in the situation by people that were trying to extract themselves from the problems they created for themselves. You know, I never asked anybody, hey, go fireball.

from that tattoo shop. In fact, I told them, you're smiling now. You suggested it. No, I did not suggest it. I told them, do not do it. And they, some of the informants even said, Christy said, don't, you know, I said it in a meeting. I go, I think you guys should leave those tattoo shops alone.

There were two tattoo shops in town that kind of just sprung up and basically said, fuck the hell's angels. We're going to do what we want. And when I got arrested in 19, 87, you know, I didn't go to anybody. The feds came to me. They came to my clubhouse. Yeah, he tried to entrap you.

They tried to trap me. Yeah. And you're right about the recorded calls and shit. The games they play with that is fucking insane. It is insane. And, you know, look, do I think there's good cops out there? Absolutely. When I was in Spain, I was living in Spain when I heard this big,

defund the police. That was the most ludicrous thing I ever heard in my life, you know. I'm in Spain, the people in Spain are going, what's going on over there? I go, I don't know, I don't live there anymore. Like, we need more cops. Yeah.

And, you know, I mean, come on. Can you imagine a society with no structured law enforcement? It's crazy. It'd be chaos, you know? Yeah. I mean, unless you had a hell's angel charter in that town to take care of everything.

Right. No, no. Yeah. You're with me on that? Maybe. I don't know. You can convince me. We'll say. Think about it. Yeah. Were you, as someone who was in the Marines, though, and then years in the Department of Defense doing things at a high level in the midst, like you said, of the Cold War, like, what was your relationship with your idea of America? You were, your parents had immigrated here. You got to grow up here. You got to make some opportunities for yourself here.

And then you paid it forward, like you joined the Marines. You know, you. You served in the military. You serve in the Department of Defense. Would you describe yourself as someone who was like patriotic? Yeah, absolutely. I feel I'm a patriot. I think for my encounters with law enforcement, for the things that transpired, I think I could be a lot more jaded and have a position.

Yeah, of course, this happened to me, not happen to me, but I don't do that. I don't cry about anything that happens. happen. It's, there's a guy that infiltrated the Hells Angels, Jay Dobbins. Have you ever heard of him? Yes, I have heard of. Did, trying to think about Lessey. One of my guys talked to him one time. We haven't had him on. He really made the circuit for a while. He had a book, no angel. And, uh, uh, look, that was his job. His job was to come and infiltrate the Hells Angels. Did he do, am I mixing this up? Did he do something with Fast and Furious too?

Like the, like Operation, what was it? No, I think called the gun running operation with the cartels. Yeah, he was with that. He's a gun runner. That's how he started out. Yeah. Look. Yeah, look Jay Dobbins up.

And I'll tell you what put me off to Jay Dobbins is he went undercover. And the thing that put me off to Jay Dobbins is he had his. shit together too good he just he just had his shit together too good he was too tight uh you know a lot of guys come around the hell's angels you know they don't uh unless they have a military background you know you have to kind of control them you have to push them you have to uh stay on them you know keep your bike running do you know they're outlaw type guys they're guys that don't want responsibility you know they'd rather chase women uh snort rugs get high and not work. You know, they're not motivated in that sense. The guys that

come around like Jay Dobbins, Jay Dobbins made some major mistakes. Jay Dobbins was trying to get in the Hells Angels in Arizona. He staged a murder. You familiar with that? Took pictures of it. I don't think so, no. He took pictures of a murdered enemy of the Hells Angels. He created it. Jay Dobbins would maybe put murder picture in there or something. And he was passing that picture around. And they brought the picture to me. As soon as I saw the picture, I go, this guy's no good, man. Who kills somebody?

It takes a picture of it. Nobody. Do you find anything? I haven't found that yet. But that's, I see what you're saying. There's just something, there was something that was off there. Were you always looking for people? Always.

Constantly. you know, over the years, you know, been approached by several informants. And I just, I wrote a book and recently I just released it crossing a Rubicon. And in it, as to go through the chapters, one of the chapters entitled Informant Number One, Informant Number Two, Informant Number Three, these guys came like in a flood. You know, it was the, The feds, man, they had their sights on me. When the feds get their sights on you, they don't like you. You know, they get you, you know.

Now, there were other organizations think of like the really bad ones, right? Like the cartels or the mafia or something like that, where if they catch an informant, you never see them again. Yeah, they'd get rid of them. Yeah. Now, what was your plan if you catch an informant? Just kick them out? I have a... I play off of their energy.

I'm a martial artist, so... Okay. Can you explain that? Well, you know, if you attack me, I'm not going to come with a specific attack. What I'm going to do is I'm going to respond to how you attack me, right? But keep them alive in the process. Well, you know, I'm not saying that. Look, I know you want a provocative answer, but...

I don't. You don't? I'm not looking for anything. Okay. Look. what happens to these guys, happens to these guys. You know, he's a police officer. He took an oath.

He came after the Hells Angels. He went undercover. He knew the risk, but he got away with it. He was good enough to get away with it. Yeah. But has anybody in law enforcement tried to infiltrate the outlaw motorcycle club and wound up dead? No, you know. Did he, so with Jay Dobbins, though, because you kind of knew.

Well, I had a feeling. I mean, who takes a picture of somebody they, said they killed. So meaning... I'm taking this picture to verify I killed this guy. So you kept him at a distance. Wait a minute, Jay. You didn't sign it. You kept him at a distance after that. Absolutely, I kept him at a distance. And then when it was later revealed because he left on his own accord and got out, you're like, well, they pulled him out. Right, exactly. And you know what happened. No, you don't know what happened.

They started having inner conflicts within the ATF. There was jealousies and this going on and that going on. I think, I'll tell you what I think happened. I think. I think. one of the superiors got jealous at Jay's involvement and he was so deep he didn't want to come out he was on the cusp of getting voted in the club and you know this controversy within the club even did he get voted in did he not get voted in they pulled him out and i think there was some jealousy going on within the organization of the ATF personally he's he's he's outcast now with he has he's like a man with no eyes he's he's like a man with no Island. Yeah, I don't, so I don't know him personally. Like I said, we haven't had them on. I'm not familiar with this entire story, like all the details, but I know the basis. He believes, you know, and now Jay and I are friends, but he believes everything he says and everything he says, the Hells Angels are all about crime. The Hells Angels, no, the Hells Angels is not a criminal organization. There are, Hells Angels is an organization with criminals in it.

with criminals in it. Yeah, that's how I described the Hells Angels. But you don't describe yourself as a criminal. No, I'm an outlaw. You're an outlaw. Yes. With a criminal record. I'm being honest with you.

No, no, I appreciate it. But like when you would see, because you have all these different guys joining and maybe, let's say 10 guys are joining and you're like, okay, outlaw, outlaw, outlaw, out. Criminal. Outlaw, out. You don't go like, all right, leave. You're like, well, he can come in too. He can come in. Just don't get us involved in.

Don't get us involved in your shit. So keep that separate. If you get in trouble, don't ask us for money. So you're like Brando and the Godfather where he's like, no drugs? Well, yeah, but I think his cheeks were whiter than mine. They were definitely, he had implants in them. Yeah, there's some implants in there. But same deal.

You're like, it's an infamina. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So was there, would it be fair to say, though, if you knew like some criminals were coming in? See, now you sound like a little, you have. attorney, would it be fair to say? A little bit. Yeah, yeah. I mean, was there a time?

I'm trying not to, but I'm also trying to like come on. Let me have it, man. I was on the stand six days in my first trial. Listen, when I do podcasts like this with someone like after the fact, this ain't a journalistic capacity. This is a fan capacity. And let me tell you something. What am I going to? I already did my time. Right, exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's all over. The judicial

system in the United States is weights and measures, right? I paid my fee, man. Exactly. I'm even. You know, I went and did a lecture one time for a corporation, and there were some people in there looking down their nose at me, you know, this guy's a felon, this guy's been in prison.

And I said, you believe in America? If you believe in America, the judicial system, now I sound like the godfather. Yeah, I believe. I believe, yeah. You know, I said, the judicial system is weights and measures. And I said, and I'm even, man. You're right. I don't owe nobody nothing.

Any debts you had? Judge Wu said this is what you owe, George. And I not only gave my time, you know, stop to think about this. 2007, that's crime takes place. Then an investigation takes place, 2007. So we go to 2011. I get indicted in 2011 for a 2007 crime. Statute of limitations is just about to blow out of it.

Okay. now in 2013 I go to prison 2000 late 2014 I come back and now I'm on pro-roll or probation whatever you want to call it till 2018 oh that's a long one yeah what's that 11 year span yeah I mean so you know people after you yeah you know and I paid my price and I didn't whine about it I may have complained to myself

at night before I fell asleep you know bastard you know but I never publicly will cry about it never whined about it you know that's the game yeah exactly and they I know the game and they came after me and uh hey I judge Wu said it all God only knows what you got away with George point when I was making the point though about like outlaw outlaw outlaw I know what I'm saying is and that's a valid point that's a good argument you're a good debater well no no if we were debating but I'm not debating I'm not even debating and I'm saying if you let them in, knowing they're a criminal, I think you said it yourself. You're like, just don't bring it here.

Yeah, don't bring us. Don't bring it up in the meeting. If you bring up criminal activity in a meeting, there's a possibility you get your ass kick and throw it out on the street, you know? Right. So that's what I'm saying. So there was some, there was a separation of things there that the general public or, you know, through what they hear from prosecutors and stuff like that would have associated with Hell's

angels that in your mind, you're like, we never did that. If we had Tommy over there who was dealing blow in a club, like, that's his problem. It's not mine. I'm not making money on what he's doing, essentially. Got it. What is the money structure, though, with Hells Angels? Like, how do you... You pay dues.

You were chapter leaders. You pay dues. The chapter leaders do not get anything. You don't make any money. You don't make any money? Nothing, no. It's the... You know...

Because you had a bunch of businesses, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I had a bail bonds company. I had a concert promotion business. Had a T-shirt business. I was at a martial arts school. I had a tattoo shop.

I had a tattoo shop. I had a martial art store. I, let me see, what else did I have. I was an administrator for my daughter's law office. You were an administrator. I was the administrator of my daughter's law office. At the criminal defense law. Yeah, I used to love it because I would call cops up and go, yeah, I'm George Christie from Christine and Associates.

We need paperwork on this, you know. I need discovery. on my murgings exactly and uh you know they took exception to that they they raided the law office oh my god so i do have a sense of humor yes no you got a great sense of humor i appreciate and and you know look you were asking about what do people do in the club you know everybody's got a different variety now tony tate wants to set up i remember i meant i mentioned him earlier the guy in alaska who turned for money right yeah okay so he comes into a meeting and he's recording the meeting he's got a cast on he's got a bug in the cast and he's sitting on my right

side and he's got the cast and i'm looking at the cast and yeah so he's got it's got it's got it over so i said i said what happened tony was i got a bike wreck and i looked at him and i go man you're a lucky guy And he goes, I'm fucking with him, you know. He goes, what do you mean? I'm a lucky guy. And I go, you don't have any road rash. You got, you went down on your bike and you have no road rash. I go, you're, you're extremely lucky, man.

And, you know, I'm being facetious and sarcastic. He's picking up on it. And, you know, he's trying to get me to give him the green light in a meeting with like 14 or 15 hell's Asian presidents in there to go blow up the outlaws motorcycle club got members in Kentucky because they killed a member named Webb. They killed one of our guys. So it's retaliation. They killed one of your guys.

One of our guys. Yeah. They killed a Hell's Angel. I can't think of his first name. His last name was Webb. They killed him in Kentucky. So Tony Tate takes that opportunity. And the FBI takes that opportunity.

So they go, let's go to Sunny Barger. Let's go to Irish or Farrell. And let's go to George Christie. And let's get permission to blow up the outlaws. Now, you mind you, the investigation that Tony Tate's conducting, this is the tail end of the investigation. Tony Tate has already set up Kenny Owens, Chico Menestrone, I can't remember how to pronounce his name, and a couple other members. Kenny Owens and Chico are heavy players in the drug business. They're cookers, you know.

Like meth? Yeah, they're cookers. Now, I was on 60 Minutes with Mike Wallace. And Mike Wallace's exact words were, I know you guys, Fed said you're knee-deep in the narcotics business, you know. If that was true, Tony Tate's undercover, he can only, the Hell's Angels allegedly control the methamphetamine market across the United States. the United States. So he can find he gets all he can catch are two guys out of the whole club Chico and Kenny. Yeah, how many people do you have in the club in the US at the time? Well, thousands. Yeah. Well, hundreds on, I wouldn't say thousands, maybe over a thousand.

And that's what he comes up with. So that's the tail end of the narcotics end of the investigation. So then they go, okay, now we're going to get these guys, going to get them to conspire to murder the outlaws. So, you know, I said, look, man, and I'm going to tell you a little morality story here as well, okay. So I'm thinking, I'm 100% Hell's Angel. I'm ready to do whatever it takes, rise to any occasion that I think's necessary. Tony Tate could have went to the outlaws and blew him up if he really wanted to. We're already in war with the outlaws. Why does he need permission from somebody to go fight the outlaws, to go blow up the outlaws. If this guy Webb and him were so tight and they were such close club brothers and he wants

to take revenge, why didn't he just go blow the outlaws up? He doesn't need my permission. Yeah, he doesn't need to go to you or sonny. We're already at war. We've been at war with these guys since 1974. It's now 1988, 1988, I think, 89 almost. he could have went on his own and blew those guys up. So he comes to me, I shoot him down, shut him down.

I said, I don't want to send any more people to a graveyard. I don't want to send any more people to prison. And I said, I don't want to fight with the outlaws. I want to mend the fence with the outlaws. My goal is to get an amnesty with the outlaws, the banditos, and the Mongols. I don't want to fight these guys no more. So what does he do? He packs up.

He goes out of the meeting. He goes out to the car. with the FBI agents, and they cut the cast off, take the bug out of the cast, and it's going to give you a time frame. They insert the bug in a new device that's just come out on the market, called a beeper. This is, I'm giving you some time frame here.

So he goes over to Sonny's house, and he's got this beeper. And, you know, of course, he tells Sonny, it's, this stuff's all on tape, tells Sonny, yeah this is my beeper for work you know i'm on the call you know they need me to explain shit to him so he's talking to sonny the feds are listening they're out in the van down the street sonny's not saying what he needs to say so tony gets a page who's the page for him it's from his fbi handlers they're saying you got to get sunny to say this and he was okay okay and you know hangs up the phone and tell sonny

I really want to blow these guys up. I want to use a lot of explosives. I'm worried there's going to be innocent bystanders hurt. And, you know, Sonny goes, fuck them, you know. They shouldn't hang around with the outlaws. And Sunny gets beef. That's five years for that conversation. So you've got for the convo.

You got one conversation with two outcomes. The same conversation he has with me and Sunny. Sunny goes to prison for five years. You know, I stay back. and basically I build my power base while Sunny's in prison. And Sonny also refers publicly to Tony Tate as everyone I want people. Sunny had to, by then, Sunny and I were at odds with each other. And he was jealous and he didn't like that I didn't agree with him on things.

And he introduced Tony Tate to the club when he made West Coast, when he made West Coast Sergeant in Arms. Tony Tate is the future of the Hells Angels This is the future member of the guy who was a rat Yeah That's not a great look No it's not a great look for Sunny as a leader You know and that's something

For the club To brew about For the next five years Until Sunny comes back and explains himself So there's such an interesting Like Moral quandary with something like that And this isn't you

This is Sunny saying these things So let's point that out But how do I explain this? When I have someone sitting across from me like I have in the past who was like in the mafia, right? Are they admitted murderers, killers? Admitted is a strong word. But let's just say that they've been on that end of things. You suspect that.

For sure. For sure. I, murder is all bad, to be very clear. I don't want to be misheard here. But I'd be lying to you if I told you I viewed. them the same as I view a guy who killed his wife. And what I mean by that is they knew the life they signed up for. The other people who are in that life, there it is right there, signed up for it as well. Again, it's against law and everything. But like when they do it to each other, not condoning it,

not saying it's good. It is what it is. It's different. Yeah. It is different. Yeah, I agree. when sunny says as a leader he was the number one when sunny says something though like and again he's like getting entrapped here so that that that's not great but nonetheless he says something like all right yeah if you're going to hit the outlaws who are in this life cool and then when he's asked about innocent bystanders or something like that he's like well fuck them if they're around them then that's their problem doesn't that kind of step over the bound of like who's in this and who's not? Well, I think that's an argument you could have.

Of course, you could also, you know, I had a situation with two bike clubs hanging out with each other. We were at war with one club, and the other club was hanging out with them, and I went to him as a friendly reminder. We're at war with these guys. And if you guys are there and there's any collateral issues, you're just going to have to eat it, man.

Yeah, yeah. I also think that's a little different, though, too. Yeah, and you're right. It is. But, I mean, look, it wasn't a secret that the hell is. And I'm, I think Sunny was wrong. I always thought a lot of things Sunny did was wrong. And it's ironic, I'm sitting here. I'm going to defend him now. But, you know, people knew about the war with the outlaws. I mean, it was all, I mean, the stuff was so publicized, you know, there was a outlaw that was given a gift motorcycle tank. you know it had a beautiful sportser tank with outlaw emblem on it and uh he saw it outside he thought it was a birthday gift he picked it up and it blew his arms off man you know it was a do you know that story i knew where it was going yeah it was a mom you know uh so it was you know some terrible mistakes were made in that war you know we've got a member that that went to kill somebody killed a romew killed a wrong guy. I mean, this is the shit that happens when, you know, this is one of the reasons.

I don't know if you know my, I don't know how well you know my history. I petition for peace for over a decade. What do you mean petition for peace? With other bike clubs. I met on my own, unannounced. I went to the outlaws, you know, I could I've got killed, perhaps, you know, uh i was a young man i felt invincible you know i went there uh and i said hey man we got to end this thing and you know taco bowman was their boss and you know taco and i developed a friendship you know reserve friendship later he had an assassination hit team come to vintura to kill me which he was unsuccessful but uh shit and that's if people look up uh USA versus Harry Taco Bowman, you'll see in there.

He had two individuals. He targeted he was either going to kill Sunny Barger or George Christie. What happened was they sent the, they finally decided they'd kill me. I don't know if that was because they thought I was more powerful than Sunny or if they thought I was less powerful than Sunny. There was never an explanation. But psychologically, it's just so interesting, like how you. You want to hear that? ironic thing?

What's the ironic thing? Okay, he got convicted for racketeering. He was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. If you look him up, Harry Taco Bowman, his pictures on there. FBI most wanted list. He was on the run. Do you see it? Yeah, he died in 2019.

Yeah, that's him. Here he is. There's Harry Taco Bowman. Looks like a real straight shooter. Yeah, he's quite a guy. Yeah, he died. at federal butner yeah they uh is that where scarfo was he yeah probably he tried to get a compassionate leave you know he had cancer and they they said fuck you you're gonna die in prison but anyways

in 2002 he's watching my case out here my racketeering case and because he had a racketeering case his was federal mine was state but he calls me on the phone one afternoon and uh got a collect call from harry bowman uh you know united states penitenti century so I accept the call and Taco and I are talking he goes yeah how you doing George I'm doing better than you man and you know we're kind of going back and forth and he goes you know I just wanted you to know you know that was personal that was just business you know and I said well I know that you know and what prompted him to do it was there was an up-and-coming guy in the outlaws the name spiked it was challenging taco for his position so you know Taco

had to prove that he still had it, so he was going to kill his friend, George Christie, I guess. But I'm not done yet, but go ahead. Oh, no, no, let me have your question and then I'll pick it up. What's striking me the whole way, I've been holding this one in throughout the way you're

explaining this whole story. No, it's just like you're interesting in that you come from this kind of go make it Greek family you're a rebel but you go into the Marines you're working the DoD everybody likes you you're a likable guy you're nice to other people you just enjoy biking and you enjoy that kind of culture so you join the

hell's angels and a lot of the time you're trying to make peace with these other gangs you're like let's just go ride bikes and have fun because that's what it was all about I think that's awesome yeah but you're you're still you're faced with all these other people still participating well not even if you're participating, you're faced with all these other people who are objectively doing shit like this, including guys trying to send you hit teams after you. The position of peace is very unpopular in the outlaw bike culture. I can imagine. That's what I'm getting at. They take that, they see that, and they take it as a sign of weakness. Just before Taco was arrested, him and I were talking on the phone one time. Him and I had a lot of two in-person meetings, a lot of phone calls,

a lot of phone calls. And he said to me, hey, George, what do you think about this peace thing? And I said, I think he's very unpopular. He goes, Jesus Christ, he goes, I'm getting so much heat, man. And I said, peace is not a popular position in the culture we're in. I go, we just got to fucking stand strong, man. And, you know, for whatever reason, he decided, you know, I'm going to have to kill George, even though I like the guy, maybe.

I don't know what his thoughts were. I'm being facetious now. No, no, I understand. But so. He said it wasn't personal and I knew it wasn't personal. I knew that Spike O'Neill had pushed him to the point. Spike O'Neill is also doing life in prison. I don't think he'll ever get out.

So Taco said it wasn't personal, George. And he goes, I want to ask a favor of you. And I'm kind of thinking to myself, a felony favor? And he goes, I know you beat that case. He goes, I know you beat that case in the 80s. And then you beat this one. he goes with your daughter help my lawyer with my appeal and uh i said well who's your lawyer he says henry gonzalez he's a famous lawyer in uh florida at the time i don't even know if he's

practicing now uh and i said sure why not and uh so he chatted up for a little bit and uh he's getting ready to hang up you know we're ending the call and i said talk oh i got to ask you man I go, you're doing life on the racketeering, right? And I go, and you're doing 10 years trying to have me killed, right? He goes, yeah, and I go, what are you going to do first? You know, you know what he told me? He told me, get fucked. Go fuck yourself, George.

And he laughed, you know, it was, and I laughed. And that's the last time I talked to Taco. I'm in Spain. You know, I get a phone call. Hey, Taco died, man. And would I have gone to his funeral if I would have been in the United States? I may have. You know, I may have asked permission to go to his funeral.

This is what I mean. This is what I'm getting at. You're the guy you wanted peace. Right. Approvably throughout a lot of your career. It's absolutely the police will tell you this guy wanted peace. I wrist my ass more than once. And you would repeatedly be faced with some people in there who would want to do or sometimes even...

My own people. Yeah, your own people. Do some unsavory things and be against it. Yeah. And what it feels like to me is that you kind of had, and I don't know if I'm on to something at all here, but like going back to seeing that guy at 10 years old, you created this idyllic, this idyllic version of what a biker rebel was. A romantic version.

Yes. Yeah. That's the word. Yeah. And so then when you were actually in it, you, and I mean, I don't mean this is like a shot. I mean this just like how it was. you like almost delusionally wanted to believe you could turn everyone to see it the same way you did and i you know that's a very profound word delusional because you're probably right yeah i was blinded

by my own maybe my own ego my own my thoughts i can do this man i can make this you know i was a marine you know you improvise yeah uh you know they drill it in your head you can do anything you put your mind to and uh i thought i really thought that i would have the ability to reach these other bike club leaders and you know when i the first time i met i'll tell you the first time i met taco i'm with stairway harry he's the former international leader of the uh outlaws uh he'd mentored taco to go stairway harry he's gone now too so stairway harry and i are at terra hut bike prison visiting hell's angels i mean at tarahut prison there's a bike show there we're visiting hell's angels and outlaws so at the end of the day you know like i'm there with uh jim nolan uh an outlaw

leader that's doing 50 years for starting the war uh i'm there talking to him about the war and where it's going and what I'd like to do. There's other Hells Angels in there. There's Outlaws in there. You can look at up Tehrat Bike Show, Hell's Angels outlaws, and you probably see some pictures. And so Stairway says this really interesting thing to me.

You know, he said, you know, are you familiar with Sturgis? Sturgis. Sturgis motorcycle rally? No. probably one of the biggest rallies in the United States. Well, the 50th anniversary was coming up in 91 or early 90s. Did you know that Staples Professional can tailor a custom program to make running your business easy?

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The calls of gym, tan, laundry, reverberated north to Canada, where a new type of party animal resides. They move as a herd migrating to their favorite watering holes, asserting dominance by flexing, grinding, and twerking. Suppling is quick, steamy, and sometimes in hot tubs. When morning arrives, they do it all over again. Canada Shore, new original series, now streaming on Paramount Plus. So Stairway said to me, he goes, hey, George.

He goes, how did you feel about the outlaws coming to Sturgis and celebrating the 50th? And I go, well, that's an interesting request. Because we're fighting these guys, we're killing each other. And he goes, you know, tacos right. down the road man and I felt like that was a oblique invitation to go see taco if I had the balls so I felt compelled to go down there by myself because I was by myself and I went down there and I I start walking up to where the outlaws are there's probably 20 outlaws out front and then do you feel any fear no I have no fear no fear no fear but I walk

up there and they i think they think i'm another outlaw initially because i got the vest on and i'm a far away away and then they get up and they see i've got deathhead pins on we have our own pins and signify who we are and they all start coming towards me and they circle me and they surround me and the the guy that's probably the boss uh lower level boss than taco said what are you doing here now i said i come to see taco and he goes does he know you're coming you're coming And I go, I don't think so. And he was fucking crazy, man. Really?

And he goes, wait, he could go get Taco. So they go get Taco. I'm watching the corner. And this guy's just gone, Jesus Christ, George. I mean, we're killing each other. So Taco comes around the corner. And this guy's got unbelievable control of these guys. The circle opens up.

And there's still like a half circle. here and they're I'm still surrounded but the circle opens up so taco can see me so I think I got to get some sort of control back so I step out of the circle and I go greet taco and I shake hands with him and he goes what the fuck are you doing here I got I came to talk to you and he's what do you want I go I want to end this thing I go do you and he goes well I said look talk let me tell you something I said you and I are cast from the same mold in a sense I go, if you were born in California, you'd have a Hell's Angel patch on your back. And I said, if I was born in Detroit or Chicago, I'd have an outlaw patch on my back.

I go, you know, that's just a way, it's geographical, man. It's not about outlaws. It's not about Hells Angels. It's all geographics. And I said, look, I think I'm the best club in the world. And I go, you know what? I go, I know you think you're the best club in the world. I go, so what's the fucking problem?

I go, I'm not telling you that I'm best. than you and will you concede that he goes I go do you think you're the best club in the world he goes yeah I go well I think I'm the best club in the world but it doesn't affect you man this is this is my thought for me as a person I said but man it'd be cool to ride back to Chicago or Detroit and hang out with you guys man I got see where you're coming from you know now let me tell you something I think I hit a note with him I think I really uh made an impact on him because I want to tell you something in the old days it wasn't it was a very small culture and you didn't see people and you if you saw somebody on riding another chopper like you you wanted

to go talk to him now this is a time when you couldn't buy you couldn't go to a parts house and open the book if you were riding a chopper it's because you built that chopper and you made that chopper and that's what I was all about I was all about building them riding them and having a good time It was a live and let live society. That's what it was all about. And I said, man, let's get back to the roots. You know, I said, I know that's what you guys were doing. And have you seen the movie The Bike Riders?

No, I've seen Wild One with Brando. Okay. Watch the bike riders with Tom Hardy. Wait, that's a Tom. I love Tom Hardy. Yeah. How do I not know that movie? I don't know.

You should. You should be ashamed of yourself. I love Tom Hardy. You'll probably get indicted over this. Probably. You're killing today. You're killing. killing me. Wait, this has

Austin Butler and Tom Hardy? Yes. Oh, it's from 2023. That's why. Yeah. And who's the director? This guy... Jeff Nichols. Yeah. This guy captured the essence. And I'll tell you what he really captured

was the transition when the club went from a bunch of guys riding motorcycles for an organization that was going outside the parameters of what it was initially meant to be. That's it. And that's what this movie just captures it.

Like people go, oh, that movie's slow, man. It sucked. No, that movie nailed it. And you know why the people didn't get it? Because they weren't there when it happened. They weren't part of that outlaw culture. They didn't see the transition. I saw the transition.

So you feel like when you joined it was bikers. It was all bikers, man. And there were just transitions that happened. Yes. And transitions happened and power struggles happened. You know. Even though a guy like Sonny had been in trouble before you joined it. Do you know who Terry the Tramp is?

No. Terry the Tramp, you ever seen Hells Angel 69? No. Terry the Tramp kind of stole the show from Sunny in Hell's Angel 69. Terry the Tramp died from a hot shot. Somebody gave him a hot shot. He's got a little bit too popular. So that's the 70s.

Read about the 70s. I write about the 70s in my new book. It was treacherous, man. You know, I can start naming people stork. Terry the tramp, Gary Robles, Snake, Harry the Horse, Jesse Coon, Ray Glore. I mean, these are all murders unsolved, suspected to be in-house killings, how law enforcement labels them. So I'm ashamed to say, it looks like, you know, we were doing the work for other people as well. And how does something get convoluted like that?

You know? Yeah. You know, I don't know. How do you lose sight of a vision? That's why I left, man. That's why I quit, you know? When did you go to 2011? 2011, I finally reached, it took me two years to quit.

And you know why? It took me two years to quit. Why? Because I didn't want to burst my bubble in my ego. It was all about my ego. I would no longer be George Christie, leader of the hell's angels, man. Is that when you...

I'm being honest about it. No, when you quit or are you viewed as like an outcast? Yeah. Yeah. Sunny Barter's a right away. I knew that guy was never no good. It's only here 43 years. Yeah.

You know, you know what I mean? So, so what do you do? But it took me two years to do it. Took me two years to build up the nerve to do it. And I'll tell you, the, I'm sitting in my chair. I tell everybody I'm out. I take my patch out and fold it up. I put it on the table.

And I get up, I stand up to walk to the threshold of that door. And I know once I cross that threshold, my life will never be the same. But I didn't know Sonny was going to be so vicious. I figured, you know, he'd talk a little shit about me, but I didn't think, you know, the fans told me there was a murder contract on me with my own club. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. You know, of course they tell you that. What does that feel like, though?

Like the literal, physical walking out of a place that you've called home for decades, that you were the leader of? And, you know, for all the complications and everything within there, like something that you loved. It was a challenge. Yeah, out of nowhere you're like. It was a challenge. I tell you, I'm walking out of that door and I'm thinking, can I make it on my own? How tough am I really?

Can I really do it on my own? You know, I mean, you know, people that are down on motorcycle clubs, they're always talking shit. Oh, you know, you guys got to, you know, you got to make a wolf pack mentality. You guys got to hang together because you're afraid. No, I've never been afraid of anything. You know, I used to run the streets in Los Angeles as a loner, man. I wasn't even in a club. I was hanging out with Hells Angels, Satan slaves, question marks,

hanging out with the losers in Monterey. You know, these were all outlawed bike clubs from that era from this 60s and 70s. But it was a whole new experience for me. And is their life after the Hells Angels? You know, my answer is yes. you know, there is. You know, like, I know there's a lot of other Hells Angels. I was banished from the club.

The club was given strict orders. Do not interact with this guy because the punishment could be as much as being expelled from the club. Just for texting with you or something. Yeah, talking to me, texting with me. Calling me, you know. Strike you as a little odd. It strike me as fucking juvenile. Right.

You know, I mean, if somebody wants to talk to me, let him, you know, why can't, What did, you know, was my question to Sunday was, what are you afraid of, man? What are you scared of? Yeah, it's like, what do you have to hide? Yeah. That's where it gets to, all right, who in here? You want me to do it? You want me to tell you something else?

Please. It's really ironic. In 2002, when I was getting sentenced for that 59 count, you know, they dropped all the charges. They dropped 57 counts. I pled guilty to taxes and a conspiracy charge. the Michael Bradbury wanted a three-year gag order on me that I couldn't talk to the media

for three years so judge Clark you know he looked at Bradbury said or Mr. Christie's word's so powerful you have to silence them and you know he said no I'm not going to do that man not taking away his First Amendment right Mr. Christie got something to say

he can say it and he can deal with the consequences. That's not surprising though. I understand why the guy as a prosecutor would have tried the answer that though just because like... Do I blame him? No, I don't blame him.

Do I find it foolish? I mean, I think he made a fool of himself. Yeah, because the judge wasn't going to let it happen. No, and the judge, I mean, the judge said, or Mr. Christie's words so powerful, you have to silence him? I mean, I thought that was a really profound statement. But you can't deny, you were very powerful at being an incredible player in the media after the 86 case.

Well, I learned how to control the narrative. Yeah. Yeah, I was on the trademark board. I helped establish the trademark board in the Hells Angels along with a gentleman named Flash, who him and I are at odds. He's still alive. He talks shit about me and I talked shit about him. But, you know, he did a lot for the club over the years. I can't take that away from him.

I'd be lying. There's another gentleman, Irish O'Farrell. he got murdered he was part of the trademark board we had limbach limbach and sutton some of the best trademark lawyers on the west coast their clients were Levi strouse mastercard uh coca cola and the hells angels uh so now it's it's humorous but that's awesome but listen yeah mr sutton calls me up on the phone says george i got to talk to you and i said okay i was talking he was now i need you to come up here man are down and you know i'm in southern california need you to come up i want to tell you face to face it's it's really important and so i take a plane i go up there uh he's telling me that

levi strauss coca col and these these other brands have found out they are now representing the hills angels and they were given an ultimatum by these band they didn't want their brands brushing up against our brand and he says we got to let you go and what he did was you know he knows he goes i know you're a businessman so i want to show you something and he showed me the bill from coca cola levi strauss yeah and then he showed me the bill for the hills which he was hardly charging us anything he was doing it as kind of a gag you know you thought it was cool and uh he goes i can't let these guys go man he goes i got to let the hell's angels go and i said and i understood and i said okay mr sutton i get it and

and and and some of his parting words were remember george always control the narrative yeah that's you know that's how you control you and compete your your brand it's like i'm look i'm on the cusp of 80 and i've jumped into this world that you've probably been in a while uh you know the youtube and you know i'm having a ball man i feel like I'm back doing it again. Yeah, I think you're a veteran of this. You were just doing it in a different media. Yeah, and the juice, I get off of it, man.

It's like, you know, people would say, what do you miss the most? I miss the fucking juice, man. I miss the excitement, man, you know? So you're sitting with Mike Wallace. You know, he's trying to pin all this shit on you. I mean, I'm fucking with him. So I go, I do my homework on Mike Wallace.

So I go to do the 60-minute interview. And so I do some, research. Now, back in those days, it was hard to do some research. You go to the library. You wouldn't know freaking computers around. So I find out Mike Wallace had just made a trip to Cuba. Well, I happen to know a lot about the Cuban revolution. I'm fascinated by the Castro, Che Guevara, Raul Castro. I'm like, so I know all about this. So I go down there and we're getting ready to start filming. We're going to do like half hour you wind up on 60 minutes like four minutes or five minutes but you know what it's like you do

half hour it's all these hard questions and tries to confuse you and shit you know the mike wallace style and uh so we're waiting around and so i just got back from cuba mike and he goes yeah i did and i go i go what was it like i go what's cassler like man he was like oh you want to know about cassler and i go yeah and he starts i go come on man i go anybody the thumbs or knows at the u.s for 30 years man i go you got to respect him you know and he goes yeah i do respect him and we start talking and then i i'm saving this little tidbit that's my ammunition how i'm going to control the narrative i think i'm going to control the nerve till i get on the air with him but anyways i've got this little ammunition i'm going to throw this little lobness grenade in there so i said so did he take you

to see the hands the hands yeah when the CIA killed jay gavera they cut all off his hands and they sent him to Castro and Castro had the hands in a monument in a park and so I said did he take you see the hands and he looked at me he goes how do you know about the hands and I go oh I know about the hands I said I know the whole story I said I know how Raul explored the Communist Party and became a communist so he could get weaponized from the Russians and I you know I go way off into this So we go into the, I'm thinking, I got him, man. I'm going him on my side, you know, and I'm thinking I'm going into this.

And I'm in a better position now. And you know what? I think I wasn't a better position. So, you know, he gets on there. It just brutalizes us. You know, it's me and Cisco Valorama. And I had told Cisco, I go, I don't think you should go on this interview, man. I go, you've never done an interview for the TV or anything before.

This is a different medium back then. I go, I don't think you're ready for it. I go, no disrespect, brother. I said, but, you know, I did all that torch stuff. And I said, it's hard to navigate through these questions. And he goes, you know what, man? I've been through tougher shit than that. He goes, fuck Mike Wallace.

And I go, okay, man, you know. So we go on the show and Adam saw the, saw it yesterday. Should it listen to George. Yeah. He just screamed him, man. I mean, he'd come after me, too. but, you know, I did, I fared fairly well. You also likable, though, too.

Yeah. Like, you have a very, you're the kind of guy you start talking with you. You hate to kill me. Yeah, it's kind of fucking great. Like, come on. Come on. Come on, I don't want to kill me. Yeah.

So, I'm in the bathroom, and I'm sitting on the toilet. I'm not going to, I'm sitting on the toilet, snorting Coke. And Mike Wallace and the producer, I remember the producer's name. Only, he was Tony was his name. And I remember he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, He come into the bathroom, like, I pull my legs up, you know. And I'm in there, Surrent and Coke. And so Tony says to Michael, he goes, what do you think, Mike?

He goes, what I think. He says, I'll tell you what I think. I think the feds, the informant, and the Hells Angels are all full of shit. All of them. He goes, but I tell you, I like the Hells Angels the best. And I'm like, yeah. And it's interesting. So the 60 Minutes episode shows here on the East Coast first.

So I started getting the phone calls. And everybody's, everybody's clowning Cisco. So Tony, the producer, called me. He says, the segment just aired. And I go, how did it go, man? And he goes, well, George, he goes, you look great. He goes, it's just going out so good, man. And, you know, Cisco wouldn't talk to me for six months.

He blamed me. for his failure on the show, man. You know, that's the kind of, Cisco was an old school biker, man. It was fucking George's fault for not stopping him. I go, Cisco, I tried to stop you, man. Yeah, but you could have, you know, he wouldn't talk to me, six months, man.

What did he really get, like, hit on, like the gotcha kind of stuff? I don't know. There's a lot in there. Oh, man. Okay, I'll have to chuck it out. He's just, like, a tough day for him. It was a tough day for his ass.

Oh, man, he nailed his ass. But, you know, the lawyers started clowning Cisco. And I, you know, I told the lawyers, I go, you guys got to knock this up. I go, Cisco will fuck you guys up. He's a big dude, man. He's a scary, big, scary dude, man. And they said, they go, why did you use the stagehook on him, George? I go, man, I go, don't say that shit to him.

I go, he will fuck you guys up. Because these were the lawyers, they thought it was really funny, man. Because the lawyers, it was, it was, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, 60-minute invitation. You don't go on the show. Mike Wallace gets on there. Yeah, George Christie was asked to come on the show and he refused. But here's the show.

Right. The Hells Angels Control of Methamphetamine, Mark. And I, you know, I had some good arguments. You know, he goes, well, I think one of my, the better arguments, I'm not sure people picked it up but Mike Wallace says well you know they're not investigating the kwanis are the men's club and all this I said well how do we know you know we don't know they could be investigating anybody and they had they had some rules they claimed were were club rules and they were actually club rules but what they didn't define it and

what it said was no drug burns and what the guys were doing was they were writing over to Hayd Ashbury and putting oregano in joints and selling joints to the hippies that was oregano for two bucks or whatever at the time and so the hippies Yeah so the hippies started complaining

The Grateful Dead and the Grateful Dead complained to us And we made a rule You can't sell bum joints to the hippies Yeah no oregano to the hippies That's good you got some morals That's nice Well we know we try to fairness and business Yeah fairness and business

You joined in 70 Did you say it was 75? About 75 is when I really started coming around. I got officially voted in in 76. How does it work? Because you said you were running with them for a while before you officially joined. But is it like the mafia where they're like we're going to make you? Yeah, basically.

Oh man John says. You go in there and cut your hand and say I burn. Well, I'd have to kill you if I told you that. Okay. No, they don't do it like that. But want me to tell you my experience? Please. Yeah.

I'm standing outside. with all other prospects. And, uh, oh man John, you know, opens the door of the clubhouse. The light,

you know, it's dark, the light shines out through the light, I mean, through the door. John steps into the doorway and the, you know, the light vanishes.

That's how big he is. You know, oh man John. Oh man John always had a cigar, like half smoked in his mouth. Uh, even smoked it when he was riding the bike. He'd blow ashes in her eyes and shit.

But he, he says, Christy, get your ass in here. Man, I know it's my time. I know I'm getting voted in the club. And I go in there and there's probably, you know,

I don't know, 20 Hell's Angels lying in the room. Everybody's watching me. And John just goes, so you want to be part of this? You know, at first, I was so excited. I couldn't even get it out to say yes. And I finally kind of broke in the, yes, you know. And he goes, are you sure? I said, yeah.

as you know from this point on we will come first we'll come before your wife before your children before your mother before your father we call you you come drop everything else and you you didn't have any hesitation no man i was so you know i was like the spider to the or the what is the moth of the flame man i i had to have that bat you know i could taste it you know that's such a wild requests though for any organization don't care what it is we come before your wife and your kids how long you'd be married at that point yeah but 10 years but coming from the Marines Marines ask you the same thing right do they ask it that late well they don't do it like that but what the

hell you're doing right hey here's your orders you're going to uh Okinawa tomorrow right i don't want to go i got a date with my wife what do you think they're going to say bring her I don't think so. But anyways, good try. You know, you're pretty good yourself, you know, and thinking on your feet. But I'm saying no banana on that one, you know. They're not going to let her go. You know, it's basically the same thing.

It's a little bit more defined. It's a little more refined. You're doing it for God and country. You know, here you're doing it for self-serving reasons. you're doing it for the hell's angels organization which you're about to dedicate your life to uh reflecting back uh if i could go back to that moment in time would i do it again in a minute yeah i was in i was in love with that culture and that in that lifestyle man i i'm not embarrassed to say it but i know there's some people out there going fucking guy man you know but it's the truth man i'm being honest

with you i i wanted it so bad i've lived on my motorcycle when i wasn't at work i was on my motorcycle and i was out roaming the streets with saint and slaves question marks whoever they may be uh i've got a in my book i've there's a what comes around goes around that's the name of the uh i'm not going to tell you what it's about but it's about the question marks and question marks were kind of a real down outlaw of kind of a they were an organization that was kind of on their last leg dick woods their leader had got stabbed in a fight with the hessians and was partially paralyzed and you know they were they were they were they were like the posse was right behind them man you know it was like they were they were getting ready to get caught and hung and you know they've ultimately eliminated themselves

but i write this i go back in time i as i'm going through the story story. I go back in time and I start with a phone call. Hey, Sunny's going to die by morning or the next day. I get a phone call from one of the guys on the club and say, if you're going to rectify this issue with Sunny, you've got to do it now because he's not going to last much longer. And so the book starts out with me getting up from bed, making a cup of coffee, drinking the coffee and deciding am I going to call Sunny or not. And that's the the premise of how the book starts out. Did you? No, I did not.

And I'll tell you, I'm not going to tell you why. At the end of the book, I make a decision. It's very specific. I lay it out just like I'm getting ready to go to court. I'm going to give my closing argument to the jury, and that's what it is. But in the book, I reflect back, and I think about, I talk about,

imagine going to a party. the saint and slaves are their clubhouse is going to be no more it's the early 70s i go to to the saint slaves party i'm i ride down there with uh this guy bandit who later becomes a hell's angel with me uh we go down to the saint and slaves party and it's just the saint's slaves are like the sultans of san fernando valley man they control the valley and People can say, oh, no, they didn't. Yes, they did. And anybody that says it's a goddamn liar or they weren't there because I was there

and I watched and I was a kid. You know, I was in my early 20s, 22 maybe. I don't know what I was. So I'm at this party and the helicopters are buzzing the party. The LAPD has shown up. And so what do the Satan slaves do? They get Coke bottles and they file bottle rockets at the helicopter. And I'm not going to get too descriptive in it, but that's one of the, for me, that was one of the highlights.

People say, what's the best party ever went to? That was the best. So the bottle rockets at the helicopters. Helicopters, yeah. And the most prudent thing, perhaps not, you know. But we're outlaws, man. Outlaws? Yeah, not criminals.

Not criminals. Well, we could have been. If we would have hit the helicopter, we would have. Oh, so they missed. They had a really bad aim. Yeah. I mean, how far is it? What's the law, like criminal intent?

Yeah, it could be criminal intent. But, you know, back then, laws were different, man. They were different. We had one of the guys, you know, we got caught with 2,000 pounds of dynamite in a garage, British anti-tank weapon. Real Airtime International over here. Oh, yeah, everybody got a fair share. machine guns

handguns with sileners we had a lathe in there we called it the armory we would go in there and work and build bombs and whatnot you know just for fun yeah for fun go blow them up in an open field but but let me

mostly but listen to this so one of the guys in the club becomes an informant he gets busted he knows about the armory now he tells the guys hey i got word cops are getting on to the armory you need to go down there

unload it and take it to a new place i don't care where you take it just take it to a new place get it out of there uh just even a temporary place so they go down to the armory they stick the walk in the uh the key in the lock and the fucking cops just swarm everybody but there's an interesting a dilemma for law enforcement. What do you think that is? I don't know. They emptied the garage for public safety.

So the guys entered an empty garage. Oh, my God. So we got this hot shot young lawyer goes, there's nothing in there. So, you know, what happens? They drop all the charges and everybody. One guy pleads to possession of a machine gun. and gets probation.

Yeah. It's not too bad. No, it's not bad. You know, 2,000 pounds of dynamite, man. Yeah, down to a probation for a gun. Yeah. And take that deal. And, you know, what happens to the guy that sent the guys down there and gets murdered, man.

Somebody shoots him in a head. Who shoots him in the head? It's unsolved. Nobody knows he shot him in the head. But. Maybe you'll correct the case someday. Well, it is a cold case. I don't put detective.

Yeah, well, you know, I'm more of a storyteller than a detective. But I, you know, in my book, I do a lot of speculation on some of the things like Irish's murder, Terry the Tramp. The names are awesome. Yeah, Terry the Tram. You got to take. You got to look at Terry. Look up Terry, man. Terry the tramp.

You know, you look at Terry, man. Hunter Thompson loved you, man. Terry the Tram, man. He looks like a good time. I feel like he's owning the stage. Terry the tramp, man. Now, see the guy to the right with the girl? Terry the tramp.

See the guy to the right with the right there, okay. John Terrence Tracy? That's junk. That's Terry the Tramp, John Terrence, Tracy. That's Junkie George. Did you read Hunter Thompson's book, Hells Angels? No, but I'm familiar with the book. Okay, there's Trace.

I actually just talked to some. there's tramp now sunny took exception that he was getting all the publicity they were going who was this Terry the tramp guy you know he's pretty cool uh that's Terry man oh he does look like the life of the party he does he is a life of the party wow so the other guy that I showed you a picture of that guy to the right that's junkie george junkie george at the end of Hunter Thompson's book and I think Hunter Thompson set us up as a club. Set you up. And I'll tell you how.

He needed an ending for his book. He's got a book. You ever read Hells Angels? No, I literally, one of my friends that I texted me because I said you were coming in. And he was like, dude, I just read Hunter S. Thompson's book, Hells Angels. What did he say about it? He's like, it was fucking awesome.

Yeah, it's fucking unbelievable. You know, Sonny and I used to fight about that. Sonny said it was a piece of shit, you know? I go, no, it's a fucking work of art, man. And I go, you got duped. I go, you thought Hunter was coming around to join the club. Hunter came around to write a book and he told you, Sonny, in the beginning. And I goes, how can you be mad at him?

You can't be mad at him, man. But that guy, Junkie George and that woman were at Bass Lake and they were arguing. And junkie George backhanded her. Her dog attacked Junkie George. Karma. Junkie George kicked the dog. Hunter Thompson looks at Junkie George and says,

you know, only punks and bitches hit women and kick dogs. And Junkie George says, you want some of this motherfucker? And Hunter says, yeah, or whatever. And Junkie George kicks his ass. Beats of shit out. Sonny stops it.

Hunter goes over to his car. And jumps in his car now and takes off who's in the back of his car sleeping. I can't remember. It's either Terry the Tramp or Magoo. I think it's Terry the Tramp in the back sleeping. And that's how the book ends. Terry the Tramp wakes up and goes, what the fuck are? What happened, man?

And he goes, I got jumped. And he goes, let me out, man. Let me at him. And he, Terry the Tramp jumps out of the car. and Hunter drives off into the night. And now the whole book he's talking about misunderstood patriots, just guys looking for a good time. At the end of the book, it's these motherfuckers,

the citizens are right. These guys are animals. They all should be locked up. It's a satire, man. And he's brilliant because he created the ending. He had no ending. He had a great book, but he had no ending. How do you end the book like that?

He's part of the story. You get the shit kicked out of you, and then you realize these guys are no good. They're animals. And that's how the book ends. But your friend liked it, huh? They loved it. Yeah, it's one of my favorite books, man. Yeah, he was like, really just, I invite him to come over tonight.

He's like, oh, fuck. He had a real estate. He's a real estate agent. He had a show. He had like 730. Oh, man. But he was like, I literally just finished it. I perhaps would have bought that house with my 35.

I told you. You should have shown up. Is that $35 million buried in the backyard? That's what the law enforcement says. You know that... You definitely, you buried some. Well, you know... I may have, but I don't remember. It's Patagonians, I'm not sure. Yeah, well, they're from Ventura. You know that. That's right. I didn't know that. You didn't? You know, he just gave away his fortune.

The founder of Patagonia. Yeah. Yeah, no, he's cool. That guy's really, really cool. Yeah, he lives in Ventura. I try to get him to come on my YouTube's channel. We got to get them on. Come on. Yeah, I'm trying. He's not going to talk with a hell's angel. He's not doing any interviews right now. You ever heard of Blackflies?

Remember black flies? They were sunglasses and snowboard equipment. No, I'm not like a big snowboard. Okay, well, I started wearing this stuff because, you know, leather ain't worth of shit on a motorcycle. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's cold. Yeah. Leather's cold.

So I got a phone call from the Wall Street Journal. And they say, we're doing a story on a motorcycle leather and riding and, you know, what's your input? What do you think about it? I go, fucking. Investing is all about the future. So what do you think's going to happen? Bitcoin is sort of inevitable at this point.

I think it would come down to precious metals. I hope we don't go cashless. I would say land is a safe investment. Technology companies. Solar energy. Robotic pollinators might be a thing. a wrestler to face a robot, that will have to happen. So whatever you think is going to happen in the future,

you can invest in it at WealthSimple. Start now at WealthSimple.com. Letters are squares, man. And he goes, what? What are you talking about? And I go, I wear Patagonia and Blackfly snowboard shit. And I go, yeah, I wear mountain climbing. I layer, man.

You got a layer. You got a layer. And he was like totally tripped out. So they did a story, a big story in the Wall Street. journal and they got me in there talking about Patagonia and Black Fly snowboard shit. So the Black Fly guys, they're like rolling it. This is in the late 80s early, no, mid 90s. They're rolling, man. Oh, this was a while ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's when I started wearing the stuff when he came to town. That's cool. So I get my first Patagonia vest like this. Hells Angels approved. So I wear it

probably 10 years and the zipper breaks they have a lifetime guarantee so I take it back to Patagonia and they send it to the factory put a new zipper in and send it back to me man oh that's so cool is that but

yeah I remember he did a check this out man I mean this probably not but you put these on you ever seen these on a shirt oh yeah with the with the thumb yeah so you're right in your butt Yep. Can't go to wear, man.

Doesn't at all. You put your gloves over it. In the old days, I used to wear gloves like up to here, gauntlet gloves, you know, don't do it anymore. Yeah, what's that guy's name again, Patagonia founder? I can't think of his name. It's very odd name.

Yeah, it's a, Yvonnezhanard. Yeah. And he gave his fortune away. Yeah, I'm pretty, I think I... Did he save any? I think I heard him... Or did he bury it next to my fortune? He might have buried it next to your fortune.

But I think I heard him back in the day on a podcast Guy Raz's podcast. I think it was called How I Built This or something like that. I'm pretty sure. It was one of those podcasts or something, but his story is really amazing. He's a pretty smart guy.

Definitely built an amazing, amazing company. So when you come to Ventura, I'm going to take you over to the Patagonia Ironworks, and they've got a whole store there, and you walk through. Sounds good to me. You pick shit out,

and usually always give me a discount. They give you a discount. Yeah. They're like always coming in, fuck. What do we got to give them this? You walk in with your brass knuckles? Well, the guy behind me has the brass knuckles. Good work, Adam.

So, you know, it's like, so, you know, it's on the internet. I got $35 million hidden somewhere. They seem, it's hard to find now. I don't know what happened. Now they say I only have two million hidden. But my ex-wife called me when she read it on the internet. It's cash. She can't, you know.

She goes, I want to talk to you about the $35 million is ready truth to it. And I said, I thought we weren't talking. Oh, my God. Do you have a good relationship with her today? No. Not at all? No, not at all. Still not.

No, no. And she, my 22-year-old son, she quit talking to him, man. He got a motorcycle. She got all upset about the motorcycle. She blamed me for the motorcycle. I told him not to get a motorcycle. You know, he's going to be a scientist. He's a mathematician.

So what's the issue with just having a motorcycle? I don't know, man. You know, what was the issue with me? I mean, you join the Hells Angels. But, you know, if he's a scientist, mathematician, he just wants a motorcycle. Well, he could probably make a hell of a chemist. Oh, right. Oh, I didn't, did I say that?

I'm just saying. Yeah, I wasn't saying he was going to go Walter White with it, you know. One of his favorite show is Breaking Bad. I'm hoping at some point in the way. Not imitating art, not imitating life, as we should say. You know what's funny is there was a crew of people in Southern California that had one of those vans. Oh, yeah, the meth fans. They used to go out to the desert, man, and make meth.

Yeah, fucking cash machines. Yeah. So I'm going to get back to the story now. So when they busted, when Tony Tate busted Kenny Owens and Chico, I had been in prison. I got the bust in 80 of six. So I went to Kenny and I go, hey, Kenny, can you give me 10 grand? Can you want me 10 grand?

He goes, God damn it, George. I wish I had the money. I don't. When he got busted, he had $3 million in his wall and 30 pounds of cram. You know, we've still. So when I see him 25 years later, I go, so you can explain the 30 pounds of crank and the $3 million in the wall? He was, you know, George, I just couldn't get to it. And that's what he told me because I couldn't get to it, George.

And, you know, we laughed at. I mean, this guy, Tony Tate set him up. This guy went to, did his time, come. home gets cancer and dies. Yeah. Within a couple fucking years, man. I mean, it's just, you know, I'm going to tell you something. You know, Tony Tate fancies himself a cop.

And if Tony Tate, if you're out there and you're watching this, man, if you're watching this, Tony, you're no good piece of shit. You're not a cop. You never were a cop. You set up your brothers and you betrayed them. You trusted. depended on their trust in you and you took advantage of it, man,

because you didn't do anything to help society. It was a drop in the fucking bucket. Anyways, always give him a message. I understand. I want to give you that platform. I appreciate it. If I would have known that was the camera, I've been looking at it.

I'm directing over here. You're held the director. No, you're doing a lot of stuff, man. I'm trying. I'm impressed, you know. And I'm trying not to look at you as you're... No, no. Am I doing okay?

You're doing great. I did this. I did it for like 170 episodes where it was just me in here. So it's like a throwback when I do it. You're not thinking about the stage hook for me like I should have known to Cisco. Now we do this. Are you going to watch a 60 minute thing? I'm definitely. You're fucking kidding me. Of course, I'm watching that. I'm getting that link as soon as we get out of here. But what's, you know, like this is, as you can see, this is just like I like. Yeah, we're just having some fun. Exactly. It's just free time. And you know, I'm, I'm gagging around a little bit. But you know what? took my life very seriously as a hell's angel. I was 100% committed. I was ready to give my life and my freedom for it. And more than once it was on the line. Yeah. And, you know, I think I proved myself.

And, you know, the ultimate outcome is you dedicate 43 years to an organization and then they ostracize you just because you don't agree with them anymore. You know, I never want to, I've still been an advocate for them, you know. Let me ask about that, though. Like, what do you... Because at the time you left also, you left under the circumstances of it was your final indictment,

and you were... This was 2011 when you left. So you're going through that. You already laid out earlier. What happened there? It took a couple years and all that. So you got a lot going on. You've put a lot of years in

and you're like, this is a headache for me. Yeah. At this point. And there's some... And people no longer shared my vision as a leader. Right. People are going, fuck those guys. Let's fight them all.

Right. And that's what the new guys were saying. So you're kind of looking at the young Turks, if you will, and going, this isn't really what I joined. So have at it, fellas. I tried my best. I tried to resolve all these issues.

You know, you guys are picking on it. Now they're picking on a, we're fighting the banditos. We're fighting the Mongols. We're fighting the outlaws. We're fighting the pagans. And now they want to pick a fight with the Vagos. The Vagos call me on the phone and go, what the fuck's up, George? Why these guys leaning on us?

And I knew the Vagos would not take it. known the Vagos. I've known them since the 60s, you know. They're not going to, they're not the organization that's going to take any shit off anybody. But if somebody doesn't want to fight you and you continue to push them, what does that make you? You're the aggressor. You're a bully. Yeah, exactly. You know what? I knew the Vagos would not be bullied. And you know what? I gave this speech. And I also said in partying, I said, and, you know, if you look at your history, what happens to cultures in their decline. They start turning on themselves.

Yes, every time. And I said, look, eventually we're running out of people to fight. We're going to be fighting ourselves. They can, I leave. I'm no longer in the club. I'm out bad. You know, people are talking shit about me behind my back to my face. Not to my face because I'm not seeing anybody.

But, you know, they're putting it out there on this new social media, you know. Oh, the social media was now in a part of the worst. Yeah. They're like posting on Facebook. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just, now I'm going to tell you a story when I get done telling you this.

And then we can conclude if you want. No, no. We've had enough of me. No, this is, I am thoroughly entertained. You're not going anywhere. So, so listen, probably three or four weeks after I leave, they push on the Vagos,

went too many times. And they kill my friend, Jeff Pedigrew, president of San Jose. They shoot him in a casino up in Reno. And, uh, he's dead now they go to the funeral two hell's angels getting an argument at the funeral one is accusing the other one of being responsible for Jethers murder you weren't watching his back so what happens uh Steve Tossin probably one of the toughest guys in the club at that particular point in time

uh his reputation catches up to him He's, Steve Tawson has a, if he look up the pink poodle murder, uh, Steve Tawson knocked a guy out, uh, with one punch and killed him at the pink poodle in San Jose. Good right hand. So Steve Tawson has this fierce, fierce reputation and, uh, that's the guy that killed him on the, uh, on the, uh, right. Uh, I don't see Steve up there anywhere. Steve Tosson. Yeah, put Steve Tosson in there.

Well, that's definitely not hell. No, I don't see him. It's got to be up for some more. Steve, yeah, they're trying to give me Steve Lawson. No, T.A. I don't know. I was following. Tossin. I always put Hell's Angel and it'll go right to them. Hell's Angel. There we go.

Yeah. Pink Poodle. Did you mean the Pink Poodle? poodle let me take out pink poodle and just do Steve toss and those angels well that's you well George okay that's not him no that's Chuck Cito that's Chuck all right with people can anyways yeah it's got this fierce reputation so he hits Steve Ruhas Steve Tawson hit Steve Ruhus Steve Ruin's falls on his back he doesn't want to get his ass kicked in front of 7000 people are he's just fearful as Steve Tawson he pulls his gun out and shoots Steve. Oh no. And kills him at the funeral. He kills him. So it's chaos, you can imagine. So they go ahead and they, they bury Jethro, they cover him up.

What happens a couple days later? They exhumed the body because they think Steve Ruiz is underneath the coffin. They think they killed him after he killed Steve Tawson. They think the hell's angels kill. So it's just a miss. There's nothing there. Yeah, yeah. You know, Ruiz is on the run. He's hiding, you know. He's got a pack of Hell's Angels that backed Steve Tawson after him.

So within a matter of weeks after I left, everything I said was going to happen, happened, you know. And I'm not happy that it did. I wish it never would have happened. But it's just an unfortunate circumstance. Well, I was going to ask you before you started telling the story. I think you kind of answered the question for me. I was going to ask you if like when you talk about these different gangs even today, like in this is 2011, like being at the clubs, sorry, clubs being at war, you know,

if it's literally like the mafia going to the mattresses thing where everywhere you go, you're in danger. And then you talk about a guy being gunned down at a casino. It sounds like pretty much if you step outside while these gangs, clubs are having their disagreements, you could get gunned down. get killed regardless of where you are even if you're with family or something like that absolutely wow and you know i mean these guys came to ventura not once but twice to kill me and maybe they never would have uh found out the one guy uh one wound up ratin taco out and he said

yeah taco sent me to vintura to kill george they found uh maps they had maps they had uh oh yeah they had maps they had pictures of me uh which weren't hard to get you but they had a silenced, you know, pistol, equipped pistol. I mean, they were there to take care of business. But we talked about the social media for a couple of minutes. So have you seen Pee-Wee? Have you seen Big Pee-Wy like he's been making the rounds on the podcast? He was a president in Las Vegas, had a falling out with a club.

I don't think so, no. A couple of years before I left, three years. Hells Angels is a new territory for me. There's one member I said, we were going to bookmark something i'll come back to that later there's one big thing where i really started looking at a little bit but i'm getting an education today so it's pee we's now kicked out of the club it's the end end of the first decade of the new century it's like maybe 2008 2009 pee we's out of the club up so i'm still friends with peewee on facebook so flash

comes into a meeting he doesn't usually attend the meetings but he shows up at a meeting i'm at the meeting just by coincidence and he raises his hand to be recognized and yeah what's on your mind i want to know why george christie is still friends with peewee on facebook and i stood up in the meeting and i said you know i said i can't believe what i just heard i go we're supposed to be the most fearful powerful powerful motorcycle club in the world and we're talking about defriending somebody I said I'm not gonna fucking defriend peeway he told me he said if you don't defriend him

I'm gonna make a push to get you out of the club and he said you can't be friends with him on social media like social media is it's a make-believe world kind of man oh my god and uh I had to defriend him that's like straight out of a comedy movie yeah I had to fucking defriend him you had to go home and hit the button I had to go home and do it what that feel like well I had to call and tell peeway

Oh, you called him and then hit them. Okay, Pee, I'm defriending you, man. Don't take it personal. So maybe I'm just as bad as Flash, you know? Now, if I'd been to hardcore 60s, Hells Angel, I just would have hit the Defriend button and not even worried about it. I feel like they would have frowned upon people having Facebook

if they had it back then in the 60s. Yeah, I think they would have too. Right. Culture change, like you said. Yeah, you know, it's like, I don't know, man. You know, it's like, I'm just like, just remember, you know, partying with guys and, you know, there's a guy in the club, Jim Passmore, he'd fucking fight you at the drop of a hat and pick you up and dust you off

because he thinks he might get a free drink out of it. How many kids do you have, by the way? Four. How old are they? 53, something like that. My son, he would be 50 now. No, how old would he be? Yeah, he'd be close to 50 now.

He passed away. Yeah, in 2015, a 33-year-old and a 22-year-old. The 33-year-old's the lawyer? No, the 53-year-old. That would make more sense because she was opening up in the back then. Okay, was your son who passed away? He was a member. He was a member.

Yeah, he was also a pharmacist member, I told her. Right. I've been a smart ass now. So... I still joke about him because I feel like he's here with me, you know. I mean, my question was going to be, talking with you off camera and then like a little bit

when it's come up on camera, it seems like your kids are kind of like the apple of your eye. Like you... I love them. You love them. But you, so how do you... Reconcile? How do you reconcile a fact that you were a part of a club

that asked you to put all that before your wife and your kids, especially your kids? It came very easy from being a Marine. That's just a transfer in a way. Yeah. So, you know, I changed from one uniform to another. Mm-hmm. And that's how I saw it.

And that's, you know, a lot of people thinking, that this guy's fucking crazy. But I'll tell you, I've got real close with somebody that he's in this podcast world. And I don't want to identify him. It was a private conversation on the phone after, you know, several months afterwards. But he told me, he goes, you know, I figured out, I've interviewed a lot of people, you know, and he goes, guys like you are wired different.

Yes. And I never really thought about it until he said it. Never? No, I never really thought about me being wired different. I just thought, you know, I'm just George, you know. And I, I don't know. I'm reluctant to say this. but have you i don't take it you read my book any of my books i haven't so in my first book exiled on

front street we uh we get word there's a drug dealer i'm a brand new member in the hell's angels uh we get word there's a drug dealer in los angeles who's selling cocaine and he's got a fake hell's angel patch oh so old man john says you and jesse you and jesse are going to work. We're going to bring a couple of guys down from the Bay Area. And you guys are going to have a four-man team. You're going to be two of you together and two more guys together. You guys will work together.

So we're going to get this guy and we're going to stop him. So what do you think would be a reasonable punishment for somebody impersonating a hell's angel, selling narcotics to people and reaping all the wards. What do you think? A couple of broken legs. A couple of broken legs? Let me see if he can fly. Okay.

Okay. I just wanted to establish that first. So we locate. He's in a bar in Southern California. So I go, I take a slim gym, I break into the car. I get on the, in the backseat. I lay on the floor. I've got a blanket over me.

And all of a sudden I hear the rocks crackling. He's walking on the rocks. He's coming to the car. The door opens. He gets in. But to my surprise, the driver's door opens too. So there's two guys. The one guy gets in.

The driver, that's the guy with a fake patch. And the other guy gets in the club. So they're just cutting it up. They shut the door. As soon as they shut the doors, I pop up. And I've got a gun with a silence around it. I stick it behind the guy's driving his ear. And I tell the other guy, put your hands on the fucking dash. And he puts his hands on the dash.

And I tell the guy, keep your hands on the wheel. And I said, I come for the patch. And he goes, I don't have a patch, man. I go, I know you've got the fucking patch, man. And I said, I'm not leaving without it. I go, I'm not leaving you until I get the patch. And he goes, I don't know what you're talking about, man. I swear to God.

And the other guy's going. going and he's can i can i get out of the car and i go fuck no you can't get out of the car i go that's a stupidest question i've heard it all day you know and so i go start driving and they start the car up and uh so we've got we get out of town a little bit and we've got three hells angels in one car they're following me and the driver and the past in the lead car and we get out in the desert and we stop and it's winter time and we're going up in the mountains that's getting that's freezing like and telling okay man you got it's gonna give us that patch he goes I don't have the patch he goes I swear to God I don't know anything

about it and the what's funny is I don't I don't know if the guy thought it was going to be cool but the other guy we find out he's in a motorcycle club and I recognize him and he recognizes me and he goes hey man can't you just let me go you know and I go no you're not fucking going you're going with me he goes well let me ask you this can I come back and I go yeah you're coming back and I go just relax and I go this motherfucker I don't I don't know about you so we we switch cars we put jessie driving in the lead car and we've got the one guy with the patch in the front seat of the lead car and then the other guys over here and then the other guys in the back with the gun i had now he has that gun and we've i've changed positions on in the

back car we're following these guys we're going out highway 14 and highway 14 takes you out to the desert in southern california and it's getting colder and colder and uh fucking highway patrol goes the opposite way and then turns around and comes back Hyva Patrol pulled us over and I don't get pulled over me and the lead car

a weird car we gotta keep going we can't stop and we're going what the fuck and of course I didn't find all this stuff out that transpired

so the guy in the backs the real serious guy and he tells the guy in the front of the handcuffs he goes if you fucking either one do you say anything he goes

I tell you what I'm going to do He goes, I'm going to shoot the cop. And he goes, I'm going to shoot both of you motherfuckers. And he goes, I got five gallons of gas on the back of the car. I'm going to light the car on fire. I'm going to go back to town with the other car. And so they get pulled over. The highway patrolman walks up to the car.

And the highway patrolman has to know. He must smell a rat, man. And this guy's got four guys in the car. And these are outlaw bikers from the 70s, man. They look like outlaw bikers. And he just, he tells him, just go, man. It's like the scene in the town where the cops sees everyone in the mass and they look at him. Yeah, yeah.

And then he's like, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what he did. He told everybody to go. I don't need a problem. And we, you know, we hooked up again. The car caught up with us. We hooked up again. We go out to the desert. And so I, I open the trunk up and I get the shovel out.

So I tell the guy, go, uncuff him, you know. We take the cuffs off the guy with the patch. And I tell him, start digging. I got him digging his own grave. And he gets, he's starting to get pretty deep. And I go, I go, make it wide enough for two. And the other guy's like freaking out. He goes, you said I could come back.

I go, yeah, I go, sorry about that, man. And I go, you know, shit happens. And I go, if you're a friend here, is ready to explain everything, we'll all go back to town. So the guy's digging. Now he's crying. He's starting to cry. And the sun's going down.

So I tell him, I go, come on up here, man. We're all going to watch the sunset. He goes, probably going to be your last one. And he fucking starts babbling like a baby. He goes, what if I had the patch? And we went back to town, what would happen? I go, you'd give us a patch. we would tax you

tax him huh we would tax you and we'll all go our separate ways and he goes okay I've got the patch man so you know

we all get back in the cars were you prepared to kill him I don't know you know that's a bridge I didn't cross man you know so you know I can sit here

and sound like a fucking you know gangster yeah that motherfucker you know I mean I was looking for a way out man I don't want to kill a guy but you know business is business i'm not going to go back and tell old man john uh you know he's back at his house but i don't have the patch you know you think i'm going to tell john that and then he

even happened so we go back to town and so now he's got four hell's angels in his house we let the other guy i tell the guy give me your wallet the guy gives me his wallet i take his license out i shake it at him and i put it in my pocket i go i got your fucking address i go If I hear one word of this floating around the valley, I'm going to come looking for you, or somebody else will. He goes, you never hear a word. And I never heard a word from this guy. He was in a bike club called the Devil's Disciples.

They were out in the East Valley and never saw the guy again. I bet you didn't. Yeah, never saw the guy. But so we get to the guy's house and maybe we were criminals. So we get to the guy. Just have two hours and 45 minutes. You broke me, man. You didn't even have a rubber hose or anything.

So I just thought of another thing that's, I got to tell you to continue in story. Please. So we go into the house and, you know, we got the gun on the guy. We're not taking any chances. Right. He goes in a fucking closet and comes out shooting, man. So he brings the patch out. He holds the patch up.

And the guy standing now. next to him, he gets so fucking mad. He's got a taser in his hand. And he shoots him with the fucking taser with the hooks. And this guy's like... Wait, you let this guy have a taser in his hand? Wasn't he your hostage? No, no.

My guy has a taser in his hand. Oh, you're a guy. Okay, sorry, I misunderstood. So he tasers this guy, and this guy's flopping around. This guy's big. He's like 250 pounds. And I don't mean in shape. Right.

And he's flopping around everywhere and he's crying and probably pissed his pants and so I take the hooks out. God damn it, knock it off. We just come here, we got what we wanted, you know. So we said, open your safe, you know. He opens his safe, you know. He's got, like, I think he had two or three pounds of Coke in there, cash.

We wound up about $100,000, a whole bunch of fucking gold jewelry that I don't wear jewelry. So we took it back to the clubhouse and I don't have it on. Yeah, I don't see it. You don't see it, and you won't. It's a good day, though. It's melted down. Part of my 35 million that I've stashed.

That's right. You and I are going to go there afterwards. Yeah, we are. No one else is here. No one else. I'm either coming back or you're leaving him that doesn't. I could be a wealthy man with some of the guys I've had on this podcast with some buried cash. I bet you could.

You give me like a little paste? So, you know, we tax this guy. and uh yeah no see the end of it never never saw never saw him never saw him never heard from him never saw him again told him to get lost uh and he was kind of prominent on the whole biker scene down there disappeared now the individual with the taser okay let's move ahead like to probably 15 years so where are we at now he's coming out of missouri yeah but what year approximately you know 15 years it's uh 1978 to 77 so what's 50 so you're in the 90s now yeah we're in the early 90s he's coming out of Missouri with 30 pounds of crank and uh he gets pulled

over it gets arrested and goes on the run and they're they're looking for him he goes on the run this guy's on the run for like they're trying to find him for like a couple years he's hiding you never guess how they found him he's he's hiding he's going here he's going there he's staying at a motel where the lead fbi agent's daughter's getting married at a motel no at a hotel hotel hotel hotel and and he's coming down the stairs and the agent's going up and there they are face to face and he gets arrested, man. At the wedding. At the wedding, yeah.

That's a tough way to go to it. Yeah, fuck, man. And, you know, I wonder what the bride was thinking. Fucking dad. He couldn't let him go, man. Yeah. That's a Super Bowl. He was on the job.

Yeah, he's like, honey. That wedding's delayed. Yeah. Crazy. That's a crazy story. A hell of a way to go down. Yeah, he got caught at a wedding. But he had a successful run, you know.

How did you, I forgot to ask this earlier, but how did you, like, become the leader of the Ventura chapter so quickly? Well, I became the leader. I became the leader of the Los Angeles chapter. That was the first one in 78? Yeah. And then I took, in 77, and then I took the, I kicked out a bunch of people with John's permission. I was looking for the weakest link in the chain. And I found about five or six of them.

What made them weak? I didn't think that they could hold up under questioning. So I didn't want nothing to do with it. Can't have your outlaws not holding up under questioning. That's correct. Yeah. Especially if they turn into criminals. Right.

Can't have that. No, you can't have that at all. So I asked John, I said, hey, John, I go, looking at some of these people and I'm not trusting them, man. And I go, you know, we need to cut out these weak links in this chain. How do you feel about it? You know, and John goes, well, you go around and take Jesse with you and you guys, you go handle it and that's what we did we went around and we wound up kicking a lot of guys out of the

club that night and uh just make him hand in the patch yeah we took their shit you know and uh so a lot of them were relieved i don't think they you know they got in over their heads and suddenly we're in the war with the mongols uh you know four people five people had been killed already uh president of the new president of the los angeles charter he had been murdered there's a lot of shit happening and it wasn't positive things. It was a lot of negative stuff. So you taking leadership in a situation like this and helping to restore order.

They go, okay, this guy's a leader and you take control of that chapter. And then after like a few months, oh man John, he was just sitting there one day in the meeting and he goes, you know, I realize this is a young man's game. And he goes, I'm stepping down. I'll be in the club. I'm turning everything over to you. But I think John knew he had cancer. And he died of cancer about the mid-90s. You know, he was like...

A while later. Yeah, he was fighting it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but he had cancer. Got it. I don't know what time. So then you come in, you're in control of that chapter, and then you open up the Ventura chapter?

I move everybody up to Ventura. Okay. I do it without permission. Without permission. I just do it, you know. And I found the best way to... Didn't you say earlier that the Hells Angels technically doesn't have a centralized command structure, though?

No, they don't. But you've got to get approval. You want to start a new charter, you'd have to have a vote on it. Each charter would give you one vote. And they'd give you a yes vote or no vote. All right, I see what you're saying. So it's not like it's not like the commission

in a way, but like if you're going to literally open up a new place, got it. Yeah, you know, it's just like sitting there. I'm the chairman of the West Coast now. A hot shot, U.S. attorney could argue, well, You know, he's a leader in a de facto sense. You know, nobody wanted to do that.

And you know who prosecuted us the first time in the Bay Area in the late 70s, the prosecutor. Not the fucking Manson guy. No, it was a Mueller. No way. Yeah, it was Robert Mueller. Robert Mueller was the lead prosecutor on that case. You were the original Mueller report.

We were. Wow. We may be in the report that's out there now. And, you know, look, this is the deal. I've got four. See, how many felonies do I got? I've got four or five felonies. You know, after one, I mean, who counts?

But look, no, this is serious. We have a president that has 34 felonies. Is he an outlaw or is he a criminal? Again, definitions are awfully similar. Yeah. I mean, you know, but he's, you know, as he served as, uh... Yeah, if he served his time, I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess I could, I could run for president.

Can you run it? Oh, yeah, you can run as a convicted felon. That's correct. I mean, he's a convicted felon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trump's technically a convicted felon. That's crazy. I wonder if he will pardon himself when he goes out of office.

Honestly, for the shit they actually got him on. That's bullshit. It was bullshit. You know, I agree. I'm not a Trump guy, but I'm not any politician guy. Yeah, good for you. I like that. Look, this is the problem.

Trump inflated his value of his property for a loan, right? You're talking about the indictments? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, I was going to use my house for bail for Guy in San Diego. The bail appraiser, I asked him to infatement. inflate. Yeah. You know, I go inflate this so I can use this for bail for my brother. He inflates the value of the home. Now, Trump borrowed the money. Trump also paid the money back.

Right. What's the fucking problem? Yeah, I don't understand. And they were trying, I forget the numbers now, but like what they were trying to say the property was worth, like they were even talking about Mar-a-Lago in one of the cases, I think it was. Yeah, I remember that. I haven't looked at it in a while. They're like, yeah, it's worth like, it was something. I don't want to say the number because I'll get it wrong, people yell at me. something so ridiculous and it's like anyone could look at that and know that it's worth fucking 40 times that relax so if it's like it's almost like jaywalking in real estate when people inflate a little bit you know what i mean you know i got to tell you my jaywalking story you have a

jaywalking story so we're we're in front of the ink house across the street is it used to be the daily grind, but now Starbucks has taken it up, man. And we always go over there and we get expressos and coffee and whatnot. So we go to the corner to the meter. I walk across the meter with four or five of the guys. One of the guys

that's always getting in trouble. Hey guys, wait for me. He runs across the street. Jay walks. And there's a cop there. So the cop pulls him over and gives him a tick. it for jaywalking. We're all cat calling the cop.

You know, we're all standing around the corner. No, he gives him a ticket for jaywalking. So my daughter takes it to trial. And she tells the prosecutor before he goes in there. She knows all the prosecutors. She goes, man, don't embarrass yourself.

She goes, I'm going to kick the shit out of you in there. And the judge, the judge. is going to look at you like you're an idiot he goes don't prosecute you're prosecuting this and he goes well he pled not guilty and we think he's guilty my god so they go in there and they argue their cases and the judge goes it's not a metered you can in california if it's metered and it says don't go you can't cross anything else you can walk anywhere you want and if there's no meter there you can just go You can jaywalk. It's legal to jaywalk in California.

And the judge just was like... What a waste of tax pay. Yeah, the judge was pissed, man. Because they both put on these big arguments. You know, we've got like 15 hell's angels in there with her patches on in court. We're seeking justice, Your Honor. Oh, my God.

You know, my daughter's going, you know, this is ridiculous. You know, he's just sort of paid the goddamn fine. You know, she's chastising me. I go, yeah, but think of the reputation you're creating for yourself. You know, Mariah for the defense. For the defense. Yeah.

For Jaywalking. And she won. Of course she did. Yeah. It's legal to do it out there. Yeah. You're expected to do it. Yeah.

To you, and you haven't told the story, by the way. You carried the Olympic torch. I did carry the Olympic torch in 84. Yeah. For the LA Olympics? Yes. For the Hells Angels? Yes.

Hamcus. Hempcus. H-A-M-C-U-S. They didn't check what it meant. They didn't know what it meant. Right. So Clarice Beagle... Clarice Beagle goes into the

a torch relay committee and says, so you're going to allow Hamkis to carry the torch? And they go, why not? Now, she's an L.A. Times reporter. And you'll probably find her a story in Los Angeles Times. She was a Times reporter.

So she goes, well, you know who Hamkis is? And they go, no, it's a corporation. She goes, well, not quite. And they go, well, who are they? And she goes, hells, angels, motorcycle club, the United States. So they closed the building and they have emergency meeting. and they don't know what to do. They've got the Hells Angels out front waiting for the decision.

They've got Clare Spiegel, the star reporter from the Los Angeles Times, on the steps of the Torch Relay Committee building. And so after bantering back and forth, I mean, God only knows what went on in there. They opened the doors up. They tell Claire to come back in. And they announced Hamkus will be allowed to participate. Clara comes out, you've been accepted, you know. Oh, my God.

They've got the photographer there and we're doing this. And, you know, I asked Claire, I go, what's the big deal, man? And they said it's the kind of story reporters are always looking for. And she had a term for it. Man bites dog story. Man bites dog story. Yeah, this is a man bites dog. How often does a man bite a dog?

Right? The simplicity of it is, it doesn't even register. Yeah. Because when she told me that, I was going, I'm not bite no dog, man. I had a little dyslexia on that one. I was thinking dog bites, man. Yeah. So here we are now.

You carry a torch. And what am I doing? The alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Are you familiar with the Greensboro, crew of the ATF. Are you familiar with the socialist shootout at the, uh, in Greensboro, North Carolina? No, I'm thinking of another one. Uh, well, this was in Greensboro shootout with ATF. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Nazis and the socialist and the American Nazi party and the Marinesboro massacre in 1979. Yeah, that's it. That crew, that, that, that, that crew, those ATF agents, they pulled them

that and they brought them to Ventura to start watching us because they thought and they said and they alleged we were going to supply weapons to terrorists at the lake events the Lake Cacetus was 15 minutes from the Ventura Hills Angels Clubhouse. They said that the terrorists were going to store their weapons at the clubhouse and we were going to supply their weapons to attack here to attack athletes that's like Cacetus you know it was going to be uh I mean just ludicrous yeah that's So they had no idea that I was really integrated within the community of Inter by 1984. We'd been there since 78. I knew everybody, man.

I knew all the city fathers. I knew the politicians. I knew all the cops. I knew the chief of police. So I get a phone call from one of the merchants. And he goes, hey, George, you need to come down here and talk to me. And so I come down there and he goes, I got a card for it. And he puts a card up.

And it's Agent Dickie, you know, from the ATF. And he's one of these guys. He's one of these guys. Wow. And it's the whole crew. So these guys are just coming out of one scandal. And now they're creating another one, man. Now, six people got killed.

They killed all the socialists that were marching. Yeah, this was November 3rd, 1979. Right. When members of the Ku Klux Planet and the National Socialist Party of America, shot and killed five participants in a death to the Klan march, which was organized by the Communist Workers Party. A lot going on here. The event had been preceded by inflammatory rhetoric.

The Greensboro City Police Department had an informant inside the KKK. Agent, look for Agent Buckfordovich. Okay. Agent Buckvilege. Buckvich. Is he in there? Go back up to the top. I'm going to do a quick find next.

Do you know how to spell his name? No, no. I'm a terrible speller, man. I'm dyslexic. All right, I got B.U. If that's what... Yeah, Bernard Butkovich. There it is, yeah.

The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, also had an agent, Bernard Butcovic, who had embedded in the Nazis organization three months earlier. The morning of the shooting, the Klan informant Dawson notified the police that the Klan was repaired for armed violence and that a caravan of nine cars of Klan and Nazis with firearms were approaching the marchers gathering at the corner of Everton-Carver Street and Morningside Home.

homes, a public housing project. The people killed included four members of the CWP and one supporter. Three were Greensboro residents and two lived in Durham, NC. The victims were activists involved in racial justice efforts and unionizing textile industry and hospital workers in the area. In addition to the five deaths, nine demonstrators, two crew members, and a clansman were... It's a wild thing, so... That sounds like Quentin Tarantino needs to make a movie. He does need to make that movie. Now, let me tell you... That's got him written all over it. And this is the deal. In the, in the venture

her a clubhouse after this started I started doing research on on these guys I have a picture well I don't have it anymore I had a picture of agent butcovic and his Nazi uniform with the swastika we had it framed and hanging in the clubhouse and like these guys were going around telling people we were going to supply weapons of terrorists but then the happy ending happens yeah and you literally are carrying the torch yeah I'm carrying the torch I so I told I get on the media I said, well, we've been accepted in the torch relay. Hamcus is now officially a bearer of the torch relay. And I said, not only do we support the Olympics,

I'm being all dramatic with the media. I go, I'm doing like a little press conference. Not only are we supporting the Olympics, we are now participating in the Olympics. And the cops are like, fuck this guy, you know. What's that like? What'd you carry it for, like, a mile, something like that? A kilometer.

What's that like? That's got to be a pretty surreal feeling. Yeah, it was pretty wild. Right? Yeah. Huge crowds of people watching it. Who were you handing it off to at the end? Well, you're going to love this. I initially was supposed to hand it off to a woman, and then somebody started a rumor, the Hells Angels will not hand the torch to a woman. We have to switch places and we have to bring a man in.

And we'll have to move the woman down one. Oh, my God. Like, and because where my old chauvinous pigs. And, you know, I was on a television show one time, and the guy was being a jackassie, he said, I want to ask you a question. Are you a sexist? And I said, I said, absolutely, I love sex. And the guy thought I was serious, man.

And I was just like, I mean, what do you do with people? What do you do with somebody to ask you a question like that? Tell them you love sex, right? Yeah, it's a gotcha question. You handled it the right way. That's what you do. turn it around on that. Yeah, so, so these guys, they're pissed off.

They're angry. George Christie's a dirty motherfucker. So the Ventura, El's Angels. So about three weeks after the torture really, do you know what happens? Well, this is before 86. You don't have the entrapment yet, right? No. This is in 1984.

Yeah, so what happens three weeks after? Somebody throws a hand grenade. Into the clubhouse. Yours in Ventura. Yeah, in the Ventura Clubhouse. Who threw it? Well, I'm going to tell you. On the archway, I get a phone call.

George, somebody just threw a fucking bomb in here, man. Get down there as fast as you can. I live about 10 minutes from the clubhouse at the time. I jump on my bike. I'm fucking haul ass down there. I get to just cops everywhere. The fucking smoke still coming out of the clubhouse from the explosion. David Ortega is in really bad shape.

man he got shrapnel all over him a guy upstairs the sarapnel goes up through the roof and uh excuse me the guy up there goes up uh gets wounded in the neck uh the shrapnel goes up so i'm there i'm pissed i get in a fight with one of the cops like a verbal argument because we know you guys were making a bomb in there and i said if we were making a fucking bomb i go we wouldn't make it here and david ortega wouldn't be the guy making it and so we're going back and forth so one of the cool cops i know i see him there and i go and he comes over and i go the grenade spoon is laying in the archway of the clubhouse where they throw the grenade in and the spoon pops off you're familiar with how a grenade works yeah so he gets me the numbers off the spoon i hire a private investigator

who's a former fbi agent he's now in the private sector and i say trace this spoon, locate this spoon. Where did it come from? You never guess where it came from. It came from Akron, Ohio military armory. And you know who else lives in the Akron, Ohio area?

Who? The Greensboro Massacre Squad. Oh, my God. You think they did it? Yeah. And I got on the news and they said, I did another, I got pretty good at these press conferences. So. Real truck, Schumer.

over here. Do you going, do you have any suspects? I go, I have a long list and the ATF's right at the top. I couldn't resist, you know. I just had to do it. So now, in my new book, I identified the police officer that told me the ATF threw the bomb in there. And it's in my book. Oh, you got a police officer tell you they'd yeah and they had proof yeah well i mean it's pretty evident you know right right you got that squad in town you've got a grenade in the clubhouse you got a spoon laying in the archway of the clubhouse door the numbers on the spoon traced back to the armory where the ATF unit is stationed and this is where it comes around to the age old question of like at what point was it the chicken or the egg yeah who's the cop and who's the criminal yeah well's the

difference. Outlaws. They're not outlaws. Those are criminals. Right. You know what I mean. I know. I'm being a smart but you know, I can be, I have the luxury of being a smart ass now. Yeah. Because it's, what is it, 40 years later. Yeah. Yeah, I'm still here. And those guys, most of these guys are dead, you know, right. Uh, and I, I'm still here, you know. I heard, and I don't know if it's true or not, and this is something I've tried to research and I've never had much luck. I understood that Bukovic like to fly his plane and Bukovic went up in his plane and there was a fuel problem and he crashed

whether that's true or not I never could confirm if it was true or just Oh you don't even know if he died in a plane crash? No I don't know I I know they considered him a provocateur you you there was lawsuits Buckavitt's name nobody got

none of those names up there those agents ever got got prosecuted, but they were identified as a provocateur. This is a rabbit hole in the half. Oh, it's just... I feel like I'm going to be reading some books on this afterwards. You should be doing a show on it. Yeah, no, I think that might happen.

This is one of the craziest things. Just the first three paragraphs of that Wikipedia article are one of the most insane things I've ever read in my life. That's nuts. Yeah. Well, there was one thing I was... Maybe I wonder if there's a picture of Bukovic with his Nazi uniform. Bernard Bukovic.

Yeah, Nazi uniform. Bernard. How did that get spelled? Butkovich. Yeah, butkovich. ATF. ATF, put images. Let's start with this.

All right, that's not him. That's not him. In Nazi uniform. No. If anyone can find that online, toss it in the YouTube comments. And don't write the word Nazi because YouTube will probably

fucking hide the comment. But great, that's nuts. Now, there was one thing I said I was going to bookmark, and there's a lot more on the bone here, so I'm probably going to have you on the podcast again to go through some more stories. So we can definitely do that. We're always available. But we weren't 24 hours a day. Clearly.

I mean, your last minute. It's at night, too. I love it. This is great. This is my kind of podcast. This is my bedtime right now. Really? For you?

I feel like you don't have one. No, well, you know. You're like Brad Pitt and Glorious Bastard? She's like, the whole time. Yeah. You still do that? Nah, but I'm reluctant. A few years ago, I did some coke and it didn't seem that good, man.

It's not as good these days. You know, like, guys like Pablo get killed, man, the quality goes down. You know, there was a point in time, I was up for honorary citizenship of Columbia. I had so much Colombian blow up my nose, you know, if anybody should have been an honorary citizen. We'll leave that one right there. It should have been me in the 80s. you that's right and the 80s was a hell of a time so i hear god what can i say yeah yeah i mean olympic torches all the way to fucking nose torches micky rick was the hottest sex symbol uh oh my god

the pope of greenwich village yeah nine and a half weeks uh kim basinger mckey and i was still a dime yeah we were running around uh micky and i were running around hollywood at the time you and micky yeah all right we i i have to get to this last thing we're going to be here all night if we do that that's for the next podcast you're running around with bookmark that everyone the one thing i promised you i was going to bring up though was a very interesting person i had sitting in that seat one of the most interesting people i've ever had you ever hear of a guy matthew hedger sounds familiar okay you wouldn't have known him under that name and i don't know if you did know him what name i don't know what the name was but i'll tell you i'll tell you his protection name or no he's he's CIA so he was a

knock. You familiar with that term? No. A knock NOC is non-official cover. It is the deepest level spy the CIA has. Now I know what you're talking about. They're totally off books. Every CIA spy is supposedly deniable, but these guys are actually literally deniable. It's straight out of a movie. There's no record of them, whatever. The only reason I could get Matt on the podcast is because after a long career of doing this, a foreign intelligence service got a leak in CIA and leaked five knock names, real names on the dark web, which, you know, most people don't see that, but it's at least like public in some way. So they all had to be pulled from the field.

Matthew was one of them. So there's a lot of countries he can't go to. But Matthew, as a knock, what CIA wants these guys to do is to be criminals. They don't want to go stop criminal organizations or outlaw organizations. They want you to be a part of them. And what do they want you to do? All different things. With Matthew, he was sent to a mansion of a guy who was a very legitimate businessman,

who you would never know was actually a knock. Like he said, people in the public might know who this guy is. And the guy trained him straight out of a movie for like, I think it was 11 months. The CIA would bring in people to do stuff with him. And he was trained in a lot of different things. but the thing that he was made to be an expert in was money laundering. And so what they wanted him to do was start making friends in the underworld and find his way into organizations that had international ties.

What was the purpose? What were they trying to cheat? I'm going to explain that. So he starts off through the earliest connections and finds his way into one of the top four biker gangs, of which biker clubs. Thank you. Of which Hells Angels is one of them. Now, he would not tell me which of the four it was.

I don't know if it could have been the pagans, could have been someone else, but it was one of the four. And the reason that they were useful is because, yes, there was outlaw activity happening within said club. And they're international clubs, in some cases at least. So he would or they would have some sort of international presence or reason to go internationally. So he would be a member of this club. In his case, he would do drug trafficking and some things like. like that and help with money laundering. And then they might go to Hungary for a trip. So when they're going to Hungary, the Hungarian FBI, whatever it is, flags that these biker

club guys are coming in and they're like, okay, that's ours. All right, yeah, yeah, we'll just watch them for like drugs or crime or something like that. They're not flagging the fact that one of these guys is a CIA spy who just needs 15 minutes at one point to basically take off as mask and go meet some guy with some nuclear codes involving Russia and walk back and use the criminal organization, quote unquote, as a cover. Okay. So he did that and had a lot of success in the in the biker club for I think it was about four years and through the club made connections to the Mexican cartel. Long story short, ended up being one of the chief money launderers for the cartel and was responsible. He told a story about how he flipped a top ten bank.

banker at a top 10 bank to launder money for the cartels. And I'm just, the reason I bring it up is because I wanted to ask you, did you, as someone who also was always trying to like rat out and, you know, not rat out, find informants who were trying to rat you guys out and stuff like that for regular, you know, things that could happen where you get pulled into criminal court or something like that. Were you ever looking for guys that you think might be working for the government to take advantage of you guys like a CIA? Was that ever a thought? Let me tell you what happened.

When the war broke out in the Scandinavian, are you familiar with the Nordic Bike War? No. Okay. Nordic Bike War, you can look it up. The Nordic Bike War was between the Hells Angels and the Bandito. And it took place in the Scandinavian countries. January 1994-97?

Yes. That sound right? Okay. Okay. I was at the peace talks to end that war. now this what's really interesting is

Jim Tyneman I think that's how you're proud he's a he's a convicted felon he was a representative of the bandito they wanted to bring him to the United States the representative from the Hells Angels

was his name was Blondie I don't know it's real now I just know about Blondie He was a convicted double murder. He killed a couple of guys during the first Nordic bike war. So he had come home now. He'd done his time. They can't get in the United States. They're murders.

Yeah. So what does the Scandinavian government do? They call the United States government and they say, George Christie from the Hells Angels and George Weggers are trying to end this war. here in Scandinavia. We need you guys to give Blondie and Jim a special visa to allow them to come into the United States, meet with George Weggers and George Christie to resolve this war. Too many people are getting killed. So they fly into the country and what do the cops give us? They give us a phone number it's a stand down number they said during the peace negotiations as you're negotiating if any

law enforcement personnel interfere you give them this number and you tell them to call it and uh i mean that's pretty heavy that's pretty heavy yeah i wonder if there's something yeah so that's what i'm saying yeah so you know there's something's going on there and ultimately what happens is We resolve the peace issue here, but they don't want to announce it in the United States. And I don't care. My end goal was to end the war. So George Weggers, he's now dead.

George Weggers and I wound up becoming really close friends. I'll tell you a little story about him in a minute. So Blondie and Jim decide, okay, we're going to end the war. We're going to end it. But we're going to announce it. Finland because they they actually get on TV and they announce the end of the Scandinavian biker war on television with the politicians standing there. Oh my God. It's a goddamn media event.

And it's like the fucking Oslo, of course. Yeah, it's it's, you know, so I tell you what I'm upset about. You know, Trump thinks he's upset. Where the hell is my Nobel Peace Prize? So I'll end the story with one story about George Wagers. The first time I meet George Wagers, I go to the banditos, I go to the international leader, a guy named Sprocket.

Sprockets are getting ready to go to prison for racketeering. And he says to me, he goes, I'm turning everything over to George Wagers. And he goes, and you're going to like him, you know. I go, okay. So the Eagles owned a house of the Rock Band of Eagles. They owned a house at Mets. Alibu Canyon where they used to rehearse.

Richard Lester is a very rich, prominent lawyer in the motorcycle culture. He bought the house after the Eagles, you know, left or whatever. So the first peace talks we have with the banditos. It's at this place that used to be the Eagles rehearsal place. And Richard Lester hosts the meeting. These guys drive in. We know they got guns. because they're driving in from Texas,

they're in a car. You know, they're in a van or six of them. We said, you come, I come. We each bring five people, and that's it, nobody else. And, of course, you know, we say, and no guns, but we got guns, and I know they got guns. So we have this meeting and open the door, and, you know, we're negotiating,

and nobody else is talking, just me and George are going back and forth. And I'm going, this guy's okay man i like him you know uh so then we have another meeting and we have another meeting and every time we have a meeting we've got to bring five or six guys that are carrying guns and case the shit breaks out so we're trying to bring can't bring canada in on the meeting i can't get into canada right yeah so we meet at peace park in billingham uh washington and The Hells Angels from Canada come down, and we all meet on the border.

And there's a bench in the middle of the park. And one side's Canada and one side's... Oh, my God. So we meet there. And they're up there with the parabolic mics trying to listen to what we're saying and all this shit. And, you know, we're making peace, man. So after that meeting,

I said to Weggers, I go, look, man. I go, this is getting expensive. Coming up here, all these fucking guys, all this security. I go, let's meet in the airport. I'll fly in to Washington. Let's meet in the area, in the ticketed area, where you have to go through security. I said, I'll get off my plane.

I'll never go out of the ticketed area. You come in. in with a ticket, you know, buy a one-way ticket somewhere. Cheapest thing you can get, get into security, and we can have our meetings at one of these little bars or restaurants in here. And we don't have to have any security. You know, because you don't have a gun and I don't have a gun. And so we start meeting like that.

And then finally, I don't know if George said it or I said, you know what, fuck this. Let's just, I'll meet you, man. And I start going up to his pad. And we become like good friends. And, you know, I leave the club. club and he leaves the club and we remain friends. Yeah, look at that. Happy ending. Yeah, can you believe that?

He passed away, man. But I just talked to his son. I always wish his family, Merry Christmas and stuff. But that was kind of a unique way to use the security system to our benefit. Yeah, very creative. Yeah, so more creative with where I hit my money, though. Like I said, we're going to find that 35. You and me.

Part two. That's right. Part two is the quest for dollars. The quest for the 35. Yeah. Yeah. Fun this podcast. But you said you would do it all again in a second. In a second, man. Are you happy today now that you're 14, 15 years out? I'm very happy, man.

You know, I've married my childhood sweetheart. So my first marriage ends. My wife and I separate. She dies. God rest her soul. A good woman. my second wife, marriage didn't turn out too good. That's the one you don't talk with.

Yes. And my advice, don't marry a woman 30 years younger, you know. It's, you know, my mom warned me. You know, the old Greek woman, the former Marine. Yep. You know, she yelled at me like I was at boot camp. You really think this is going to work? Seems like five to tens the sweet spot on the gals.

Yeah, yeah. So anyways, I'm the last couple, I'm going to Spain. My book has been optioned by a production company in Spain. They're going to make an episodic TV series for my book marked. So they pay all my expenses. Everything's first class. I'm in, you know, living high on the hog. I'm in Spain, living.

Before I leave for Spain, I meet with Bob and Beverly, Gia and Lale. Beverly I've known since I was 12. Bob, I've known since I'm probably 15 or 16, lifelong friends. The meal is, I'm getting ready to leave the country. I figured I'm never going to see anybody. Again, I'm not coming back. I'm going to stay there, man.

I'm going to make $20 million. I'm going to stay in Spain, man. So at the dinner, he takes me aside. He goes, I got cancer, man. And he goes, well, I'm going to beat it, you know. And I go, good for you, Bob. And Bob's a big football player, tough guy. you know not a hell's angel guy he's a businessman uh ran a beer distributing company he's a very

successful guy uh so i go to spain him and beverly go back to hawai that's that's where they're living they're from ventura but they're living in hawai now in kawai and uh bob and i are communicating and communication quits and i get a call from beverly about six months later you know she goes you know bob died and uh so somehow the stars align and Beverly and I start talking about what are we going to do man we're both the last quarter of our lives man and now Beverly is her husband's dead her 57-year companion of marriage is gone she's drifting I'm drifting aloft and the rest is history we wind up together

Come back to California. She meets me in California. We're together a few weeks. And I go, you know what? Let's go to Vegas and he loat. Let's don't even tell anybody. You went to Vegas. We went to Vegas and he looked.

Straight up hangover. Love it. Straight up hangover is right. So where did we get married at? The Elvis drive-in chap, oh, man. You gotta love it, man. Do you have pictures of that? Yeah, but you really, you know, yeah, I got some pictures somewhere.

You had to be there. Yeah, you had to be there, you know. Good for you. uh so we've been married now uh three years you know working out well oh man it's just i'm just like like a fucking kid man that's so happy the her family's happy because uh she's a lot to she's a lot of woman man you know they go let george do it man and uh you know it's uh we talk about uh talk about Cheryl and we talk about her husband a lot you know my first wife and beverly were good friends and you know we're we were all buddies you know it all worked out so that's where i'm at in my life man

i'm very happy uh i'm getting on the plane tomorrow i'm going home i'm spending new year's eve with her and my dog fonsie you got a dog i got a jack russell named fonsie man rides in my sidecar oh my god wears goggles gets in a sidecar man oh my god you are a dog documentary in a movie all in one. Well, you know, this is great. We get in here at the last minute. Thank you so much for doing it. Well, thank you.

You just did not disappoint. I mean, you are something else. Thanks for putting it together as well, Adam. Yeah, you know, and I dug the little thing you sent, and I put it up on my, see, I'm learning all about this social media. I put it up on the real. Oh, oh, the story I put out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of live, what's going on? People are writing me and shit, you know. You're doing it, man. And, you know, I love the haters. You'll do anything for a fucking dollar, man. And you know what I told him? I have a thing I do with my haters that follow me, you know. I said, your mom's very expensive.

Everything's referenced back to their mothers. Good for you. And, you know, I have had people go, my mother was a saint. How can you talk to her like that? I've done the same thing. I know exactly what you're talking about. Sometimes they'll be like, oh, she died 10 years ago. I'm like, all right, that's your fault for, you know.

coming at us. What are you going to do? Yeah, what I said. I go, you're right now, X hell's angel. You're talking shit to me. What do you think I'm going to do, lay down? Yeah. And, you know, it's like I answer all mail.

I even answer my hate mail if it's creative. If it's not good, you know, I just said, this guy's got no, you know, if it's good, take them on. Good for you. Good for you. All right. We're going to have to do this again. This was awesome.

Let's do it, man. Thank you so much. What was that? Taylor Sheridan. He's got to give us a call. Oh, yeah. No, I think this, yeah, Tarantino, there's a lot of people that could give you a call. There's a lot of stories on the bone that we didn't get to today.

You know, I just ran into Tarantino and Sean Penn. I was at Michael Mattson. All right, stop. Please stop talking. I can't do this. I'll just shut up. This is just going to be all night if we did this. We have to, we have stories that will last.

I know. We've got to leave people wanting part two, though, George. All right. Well, in part two, I was one of the people at Michael's memorial that I gave a speech to the audience. Tarantino did, and then I got up there. Oh, wow. And I was good friends with Michael Mattson. You know who Michael Matt's.

Oh, yeah, yeah, amazing actor. Unbelievable. Yeah. And, you know, he passed away last year. So you know what I'm going to do tomorrow? I'm going to post a picture of me and Michael from like 10 years ago. and I was standing by this cool Thunderbird car. You know, he was thinking about buying.

But I just, I just thought about that. Yeah, he was a great actor. Yeah, unbelievable, man. You know, all this stuff he was good in, I really liked him in Donnie Brasco, man. Donny Brasco is one of the most underrated movies ever made. I'm telling you, man. Sunny Black.

Oh, man, you know. And anyways, I'll shut up, man. You know, you asked me if I could go another couple hours. Oh, I know you could. Shit, man. I know you could, but we could. We got to leave people wanting to part two at some point. We'll give it to them, man.

We'll do it for sure. Thank you so much for doing this. All right. Thank you, man. I really mean that. Everybody else, you know what it is? Give it a thought. Get back to me.

Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.