Julian Dorey Podcast - #388 - “Epstein LIES!” - CIA John Kiriakou ERUPTS on Satanic Elite, Mossad & Most STUNNING Files

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) AMENTARA: Get 22% off your first order of Amanita muscaria at www.amentara.com/go/JULIAN with code JD22. WATCH PREVIOUS KIRIAKOU EPISODES: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-ICwfCgQ-Z1DPZs0YvPqdOTongALGXPt JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CLIPPERS DISCORD: https://discord.gg/8QmWEKJ3BT (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ John Kiriakou is a former CIA spy who was the agency's chief of counterterrorism in the Middle East prior to being prosecuted by the DOJ. JOHN's LINKS: X: https://x.com/JohnKiriakou IG: https://www.instagram.com/realjohnkiriakou/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 1:04 - John’s Meme’s blowing up, Mexico Movie 9:07 - The Original Epstein, Satanic “Supra” Government, Dershowitz & Krauss 21:53 - Israel Allegiance Theory, Les Wexner, Rothschilds & Epstein 32:03 - What John would ask Wexner, British Monarchy, Peter Mandelson 40:44 - Wexner Epstein Justice, The Trilateral Commission & Arms Deals 53:35 - Trilateral Commission & World Bankers, Population Control, David Rockefeller 1:03:11 - CIA Covert Ops, Operation Mockingbird in Modern Day 1:13:28 - Journalism Audience Capture, 3 Million unreleased Epstein Files 1:20:45 - Trump & Epstein, Blackmail Op, Epstein Psychology Skills, Mossad & Epstein 1:34:24 - Adnan Khashoggi & Epstein, CIA Epstein, Prince Andrew 1:50:19 - John’s Epstein Death Theory, How John would have smuggled Epstein out 2:04:15 - Iran Contra, Reagan on Israel, CIA Compartmentalization on Epstein 2:18:42 - Epstein’s FOIA, 9/11 Shadow Commission 2:27:18 - Bill Clinton & Epstein, Steve Bannon, Elite Emails 2:39:18 - Steve Bannon Spy? 2:46:59 - Satanic Elite Emails, Dark Code Words, Peter Thiel & Epstein, 2:52:27 - Netanyahu Israel & Ehud Barak 2:58:14 - Mossad & CIA Relationship 3:00:28 - Iran War 3:06:10 - John’s Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 388 - John Kiriakou Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you were tasked with making the world believe that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing to wherever he's going to go to get f***in facial surgery and live out his life, how would you do it? Oh, you would take out the body, whether it's a body double or made out of silicone or whatever, take it out in full view of everybody. That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree. They did do that. Hello, I'm John Kyriaku, and I'm here to fuck shit up. You're like the most famous guy on the internet now.

I don't recognize your normal voice. It's killing me. I know, right? I don't know how this happened. it just happened like literally overnight it just happened can we pull up the latest one that we put up thief let's get john's live reaction so when this was happening when you and i did episodes 278 and 279 together which was a year ago

i remember this was probably like an hour 20-some minutes into the first episode and i remember this whole lincoln thing coming up out of nowhere my god this is cool he's a lincoln collector and then you look at me with the dead straight face and you're like yeah I was trying to buy Lincoln's last turd and I at the time we had a lessee in the studio and I'm I'm like turning to a lessee like this this motherfucker get the series and then you're like oh yeah I was trying to buy it so when this all started to break like Danny on on our editing team and and I were looking at stuff I'm like you got to make the Lincoln shit store so he did let's run it can people see this Steve yeah all right let's roll Show Museum. And it was a museum of circus freak shows from the 1800s.

Stuff that had been in these circus side shows. They had the shadow box hanging on the wall. And there's a dried-out turd. And it says it's... Abraham Lincoln's final turd. Come on. So it says on the card, it said when he arrived at Ford's Theater,

he had to drop a deuce. And so before he got seated, he went to the men's room. And he dropped the deuce in the chamber pot. And then he went back to watch the play. And he got shot. Somebody had the presents in mind. And they said presents in mind.

Or the sick man. Well. They're a lot of linking collectors. I see an article in Washington Post about six months later saying it's going out of business and they're going to auction everything off. So I told my wife, I'm buying that tour. She's like, oh, no, you're not. Oh, yes, I am. I'm buying that turn. My wife and I actually had a strong disagreement about this.

I go to the auction and I... I top out at 1,200 bucks. It ends up going for $5 grand. So the guy that ended up buying it sends it to some company for a DNA sample. And what they found was it had like microscopic bits of... have a NECO wafer in it, but Neko Waivers weren't invented until 1880. It wasn't his shit. It wasn't his.

It was some random guys turned at $5,000 for. That is one of my better stories. Oh, my God. Are you familiar with Black Twitter at all? No. Oh, you're not. You need to familiarize yourself. They love you.

Really? They're like, yo, this motherfucker John. Crazy yo. There's my, I had some words about. I'm not allowed to say this motherfucker I here just saying straight cat, what is real. And I'm fucking dying and reading this stuff. And I'm telling you it happened literally overnight. Yeah.

And I don't understand why. I know you don't. I mean, you're like for people that don't know you personally, which is pretty much everyone out there listening, like you've lived this amazing life and done all these incredible things or whatever. But it's always funny to talk to you like about content because you're like, oh, was that good? I'm like, yeah, John, like 15 million views on something's really good. And you're like, okay.

And you leave. And we're just like, you know what? You're happy as a clam. We'll keep it that way. And you know, some crazy stuff has happened since I saw you last. I've got this great friend Tyrell Ventura, Jesse Ventura's son. Ty is one of the sweetest men I've ever met. He's just a really good-hearted, kind guy.

What's up, guys? Three quick things. Number one, if you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button. it is a huge huge help. Number two, if you'd like to join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of these episodes, you can join via the link of my description or my pin comment. And number three, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to edit clips from the show and make money, you can join via the Discord link in my description below.

And he calls me one night in July. And he says, he wrote a movie. Ties a Hollywood guy. He's done a lot in film. he wrote this movie. I was like, oh, that's cool. Good for you. And he said, well, you know, it's going to be, this is the story. I was like, yeah, that actually sounds like a compelling storyline. And I'm thinking, why is he telling me this? I'm happy for him. He's going to write this movie. And he said, you're going to be in my movie. And I said, oh, thank you. No. No, no. I'm not interested. I said, listen, I'll be stiff and unconvincing. I would be a terrible actor. I've never acted before. And I would wreck your movie. And he's. And he's, said, well, I thought of that. And I thought you've been, you acted every day of your career when you were with the CIA. I said, well, that's actually, that's actually true. And he said, so I wrote the part specifically for you and you're going to be in the movie. So I went to Mexico for the whole month

of October. And we filmed this movie. And I'm very proud to say that I am now a member of the screen actors. Oh, you're in SAG now. That's not. That's not. not suspicious at all. I'm CIA guy in SAG. I'm also now a professional Hollywood actor. Did you feel like you were good at it when you were doing it? I feel like you're a natural. No, I, listen, everybody around me, everybody else in the film was incredible.

Like I would stand there just off camera watching them in awe of their ability to do this over and over and over again. We would do each scene eight, 10, 12 times. And they were so good. And they've all been in stuff. They've all been in movies and TV series and all kinds of stuff. And then the star of the movie is a really great guy, very generous with his time and his advice, Jeff Fahey. I really hit it off with him.

He would stand just off camera and whisper directions to me. And it made me like, I guess, believable enough that I didn't make an ass of myself in this movie. So we watched the first cut a couple of Saturdays ago. and I was like, this movie's actually good. Look, I would go to the theater to watch. What's it about? It's about the richest guy in the world

who's a cross between Elon Musk and Eric Prince, and he has a son who has become his daughter, and so they're estranged. And he hasn't told anybody, but he's dying of liver cancer. and so he invites the the country's preeminent lefty podcaster and the country's preeminent righty podcaster to come and he's going to tell his story for the first time and then they sort of are competing with one another how they're going to shape the story one falls apart

the other one gets it done and then I'm the director of the guy's security detail former CIA ops officer oh right on cue there you go but you had to play a bit of a tough guy right I had to play an asshole. The guy was an asshole. And a liar. You couldn't play that. I was in a dumpster all night. No, that's another one that's making the rounds.

Do I smell like I've been with a woman? And on the best is they switch it back and your voice like, we later got divorced. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm just don't cry. Oh, well, that's very good. I'm glad you're in SAG now. So I just add it to the resume, right? Last night.

I cast my votes for the SAG Awards, now called the Actor Awards. Excellent. I took it very seriously. They send everybody. They're like, you know, 50 million people that are in the SAG. So it's not like, you know, this was anything necessarily special. It was for me. So they send you the list of nominees.

They send you links to every one of the movies and the TV series. I watched every last one of them. And I cast educated votes. Good for you, John. Someone's taking it seriously. They need your type in there. That's right. But we are here obviously as like kind of an emergency episode because of what's going on.

And I know you have some stuff that you heard, Whispers in the Wind, if you will, about Iran. So we will get to that a little bit later. But I definitely want to start on the story of my lifetime, I think, is what I would say at this point. You and I've talked about it in the past on episodes with Epstein and, you know, how they've slowly rolled out this. case and people found out information over the years and now there's some files coming out and there's a lot of issues there. But I got to tell you, man, reading through these emails yeah. Sickening. There are so many things that in the past people might have presented to me random people with, let's say no evidence that I was like, come on. Yeah. I've done the same thing.

Right? That's been my response. Like, come on. You have evidence? Now when you read it. it, are you like me where you're like, well, I can't rule this out anymore? I will say I've got a great friend, Ben Swan, terrific investigative journalist who was laser focused on PizzaGate. And PizzaGate always sounded so insane to me that I was like, come on, man, what are you doing? You're going to kill your career with this PizzaGate thing. First of all, the pizza place doesn't even have a basement where they're keeping kids, right? And this clown from North Carolina who drives up with an AR-15 or whatever it was, AK-47, and shoots the place up. And then he can't find a basement where the kids are being kept as sex slaves and he,

you know, gives himself up. And then we see these emails last week about, you know, take a Viagra and then we'll go get some pizza and grape soda. Ha, ha, ha. It's nuts. I can't believe it in some of these cases. And, you know, the code word usage. Yes.

The other thing, John, that's so sinister is it's almost like it was a giant, you know, fuck you meme to everyone, like the worst sadistic kind because you have a guy emailing from account from an account called JEE vacation. Like, you can't even make this up. That's like what your grandpa would make on an auto AOL account back in 1999 when he wanted to be hit and make an email. You know what I mean? And they talk so flippantly.

Like forget the most sadistic stuff where they're talking about. children and the awful things they're doing to them like that, but they talk so flippantly about the world. And it had me rethinking what George Carlin once said. I always quote it. Everyone always quotes it. It's a big club and you're not in it. I think we have to fix the quote. It's a little club and you're not in it. Is that fair? We didn't even realize this little club existed within the big club. I think that is fair. Yeah. I tried a psychoactive mushroom recently. You've heard me talk about it before. It's not the one everyone always talks about, though. The mushroom I'm referring to is Aminita Muscaria, red one with the white spots that you've seen in folklore stories forever. It's not

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So if you'd like to join me and check out Amantara for yourself, you can go to www.com slash go slash julian that link is in my description below and use code jd 22 at checkout for 22% off your entire order once again that's www.mantara dot com slash go slash julian link in my description below and don't forget to use code jd 22 for 22% off your order what do you think of what tucker said about this revealing perhaps some sort of super government like s upra where he said the people that you thought were the highest actually just work for the people who work for the people that are the highest. Isn't that the truth? I think he's on to something. You know, Tucker's another guy who has been very deliberate about all this. He was never one to jump on rumor. He was always

one of the guys who demanded to see evidence before he took a position. And I think even he is shocked by what has been released. And, you know, there are a million other little strings that haven't been pulled yet. Don't forget, there are still reportedly between three and three point three million documents that have not yet been released. Yes. That Pam Bondi has said won't be released. She's going to defy a bill passed 419 to one in the House and 99 to nothing in the Senate and signed by the president. And she's just going to say, no, I'm not going to do with the bill. And commands me to do and release these documents. Do you think she's saying that or that's coming from above her?

It has to be coming from above her. It has to be. One of these little strings that I've been trying to focus on involves Catherine Remler, who was the Obama administration's White House counsel. 11,500 emails. First of all, what the fuck, right? Like, does she do nothing all day long as the white house? House counsel other than chit-chat with Jeffrey Epstein, number one.

Number two, there's one, there's one email that she sent him saying, John Brennan, the CIA director, gave me the CIA's highest honor today. Pretty cool, huh, or pretty great, huh? And then she tries repeatedly to set up a lunch between Jeffrey Epstein and John Brennan. Why? To what end? And there's a bigger question here, too, and that is, what kind of judgment? judgment did these people exercise.

This woman is supposed to be the president's personal legal advisor, his personal attorney. And this is what she's doing. And I have a theory that I'm confident about. Why would she be so close to John Brennan, of all people? because every Tuesday morning at 7 o'clock, John Brennan chaired the kill list meeting. And we know that the kill list committee was chock full of attorneys, White House, NSC, CIA, DOJ, just to make sure that, yeah, you can legally go out and just kill these people this week. And then we'll meet up again on Tuesday and come up with another list of people to kill.

She was on the kill list committee. I'm confident of it. So she's either murdering people or she's chit-chatting with Jeffrey Epstein. Again, what kind of judgment do these people have? And then where did she go? She became the general counsel at Goldman Sachs. That's right. At least they had the presence of mind to say, you got to go.

You can't survive this. I will say this. They should have done that a few years ago. Ages ago when it was first released that she was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein. You're absolutely right. That's right. You know, there's just some, there's revelations of people that had stronger relationships to the point that you know they were personally in his life.

And I want to come back to Rumler in a minute because that's a big story. But like Lawrence Krause have said this a million times, sat in that chair two years ago, got connected to him through someone else that was on the podcast. He's a physicist. And then when he was coming in here, we knew he had known Jeffrey Epstein. I asked him about it on the podcast. He was a nice enough guy. he's got 7,500 emails with Jeffrey Epstein.

So like, I'd love to be like, you know, and usually like I have a policy of not really talking against like people who have been in here and stuff like that. It's just like a part of the job, let other people do that. But journalistically, like, you have to do this. And I'm not planning on reaching out to Lawrence to ask him about this or whatever. But when you are coordinating with someone that much over all these years and we found out he was trying to get Jeffrey Epstein on the Joe Rogan experience in 2017. Oh my God.

You know, it's like you know, bro. At that point, you know. And he said in the past he was quoted as saying like, you know, well, I only ever saw Jeffrey around young women who were 21 or 22. So I assumed that I believed him, took him under his word when he said he wasn't young. Funny because that's exactly what Peter Mendelsohn said until the picture was released of him in his underwear with a 16 year old, not realizing that he was being photographed.

That's right. And it's got to be said. Like when you see, there's other people that are in the emails where I don't really see anything and it's only a couple emails and they don't really seem to like know them well. And I'm like, all right. It's weird. But all right. But to bring it back to Kathy now, 11,500. Very interesting that you put two and two together with the kill list, which leads to my question.

And again, some of this has to be theorizing. John and I. Sure. We weren't fucking there. So we don't know. Right. We don't know. But do you think that Kathy, before we get to the origins of Jeffrey Epstein and go through all that,

do you think it was that Kathy as a rising star attorney becoming kind of like fixer, especially once she got into the Obama orbit when he gets into office? Do you think someone like that was just very clearly a target for Jeffrey? And he then actually possibly befriended her. And then because of the connections he had, she trusted him and with information related to things like, I don't know, perhaps a kill list. I think that's likely. Because if you're hearing from people like Alan Dershowitz,

what a great guy Jeffrey Epstein is, right? And, you know, that's your best friend. Yeah. You love him. Yeah, we really love each other. Again, what kind of judgment do these people have? If you're like the most important constitutional attorney in the world, then maybe you should keep your pants on probably in the presence of a 16 year old girl yeah

your defense that that you're you kept your underwear on that's not a defense it's not a defense you know i was on the pierce morgan show with him uh i don't know six eight months ago and pierce called it smack down afterwards because i think i rattled him i rattled dershowitz he he said the most ridiculous thing. I said that I was confident that Epstein was a Mossad access agent. And I believe that I've been proven correct. I believe that I underestimated his contact with intelligence services. We could talk about that all you want. But I'm positive that he was an Israeli agent of some sort. And Dershowitz just jumped all over me. And then he shouted, see, this is what he does. he interrupts to try to knock you off balance.

But he shouted the most ridiculous thing. And I laughed at him. He said that he was Epstein's attorney. And if Epstein was a spy for the Mossad, he could have gone to the White House and he could have gotten him a lighter sentence. And it's like, I would have hung him from a tree. No, John.

I would have hung him from a tree. That's right. That's right. Like you think going to the White House to admitting that your client is spying for a foreign power on you. That's right. That's going to get him leniency.

I saw, we can't play it because it actually has like copyrighted music in the background, but I was just looking when, right before you got here, that clip popped up in my feet of him saying that. And it was actually, I don't know if you noticed this because you were just on Zoom like going back and forth, but we could watch it afterwards and see everything. You could tell as he was getting through it once he had said CIA or Mossad. and then said, I could have gone straight to the white. He went like, oh, crap.

Oh, whoops. Cats out of the bag. Yeah, yeah. And you just see Basimusuf like, he was good. Anyone else get that? You know what I mean? It was like, whoa. Yeah.

But that's the thing, John. And I've talked about this a bunch recently. It's like you're Greek American, right? You're born here. Born here. You're a dual citizen, right? Yes. But you're someone who served the American government.

Oh, I only became. a dual citizen in 2010. That's right. Okay. So you're even closer generationally. I'm like fourth generation or something like that. I'm half Italian, half Irish. No disrespect to the Irish side.

I love my Irish fans out there. You know, I never identify with the culture. The food kind of sucks. I go out of my way to not celebrate St. Patrick's Day. It kind of is what it is. It's not a part of my family cultural history. Right. And so like if something happened with Ireland tomorrow, I'd be like,

that's really sad, but my life would go on. On the other hand, the Italian side, that's my family culture on both sides, that I have lived in the country. I have family in the country. I love that place. It's amazing. If tomorrow, though, as an American-born, Italian-Irish-American,

if the American government came to me and said, listen, Jules, some shit went down last night, and it turns out we are at war with Italy, will you, before the question comes out, like, will you fight for us or then? I have on my American fatigues in AK-47, and I'm taking the nearest plane trainer automobile to get the fuck over to Italy

and mow down whatever Mario and Luigi's get my way in the wrong uniform. I'm gonna hate it, I'm gonna hate it, but I'm gonna do it. And there's a lot of people whose names ended in a vowel in 1943 whose parents didn't even speak English, who did the same thing. And they did exactly that. And there are many American Jews

who would say the same thing about America. I take issue, it's not about the race, I take issue with anyone like an Alan Dershow who you know goddamn well. American-born dude who's made his whole life here, you know goddamn well. If you asked him that question, do you get a blank stare

and he changed the subject and you know what the answer is. Or even just accuse you of being an anti-Semitic. That's right. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't trust him. I don't like him. Frankly, I don't know anybody that trusts him.

He's just not the kind of guy that instills trust. Yeah, and the thing about him that I have to give him is that ever since the Epstein story like first came out, he is one of the only people, if maybe the only guy, like from that orbit, who will get in front of whatever camera is rolling to discuss the case directly. I will give him that. I will also give him that as an attorney, he did represent the guy. He has a job to do there. Yeah. Whether we like it or not.

But David Boyce was on the other, he and I were both on Pierce the other day. And he made an important point. Because David Boyce is one of the most important criminal defense attorneys in America. And he said that Dershowitz was more than just his attorney. He was his friend, and that's fine. You can be friends with your clients, even if your clients are scumbags. But he was Epstein's publicist. And that's not fine. He was?

For all intents and purposes. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Did you happen to see Les Wexner's testimony? I'm glad you brought that up, John. Did you catch the hot mic moment? If you say more.

Yes, I did catch that. I loved it. How about the fucking the reaction? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Boy, Les Wexner. I would have so many questions for Les Wexner.

There aren't enough hours in the day. Right. What would be the first thing you'd ask him? What would possess you to hire a seventh grade substitute math teacher who had never finished college to be tax advisor when you are the richest man in the state of Ohio? There wasn't one person in the entire United States of America for you to hire to advise you on your taxes than a seventh grade substitute math teacher who didn't finish college. Unless you were also having sex with him.

Oh, I didn't see that curveball coming at the end. That kind of just hit me. Which he has consistently denied. He has consistent. You see his reaction in that with his face when they did bring that up in a separate question, I might add? They're like, did you ever, first of all, he's like leaning forward like this whole time. And they're like, did you ever, did you ever have sexual relations with Jeffrey Epstein? He's like, I was like, I need a body language expert on that one.

And you know what he did? According to Vanity Fair, as soon as, as soon as. his people started asking that question, he ran out and got married. The guy was, you know, well into adulthood and had never been married. And then as soon as people started saying, I wonder if Les Wexner's gay, he ran out and got married. See, this is what's strange about that and particularly not, I can't speak for Les Wexner at all, but on the other side of the equation, because these files, to be clear, seemed to show. It's girls, boys, children, just in general.

Anything went. But on the other side of the equation, in all the testimony, witnesses, people who were around Jeffrey Epstein coming forward, I have never heard something where it involved a male period. It was always young women or little girls, right? So for him to be, this would be a, you know, a gay relationship or encounter like that. And that, I mean, I guess totally, I guess nothing's off the table. But it's, that's always been like a little bit of a red herring for me. Like, I wonder if it's like less is doing stuff with people that Jeffrey's providing. And that could very well have been it as well.

Mm-hmm. So you asked that question, though. about why you'd hire a Dalton math teacher. Why? And you give him so much money that he ends up with... Power of attorney. And power of attorney, he ends up with the widest townhouse in all of Manhattan. You ever stood outside that place?

I went once. Yeah. It's gigantic. Yeah. I give the demented tour of New York City and people coming in town. That's cool. That would be fun. We stand there.

But it's a big place. Yeah, it is. You ever see, look at the Google Maps and see how far it goes back? No. Lutnik's house is like half the suns. Wow. It's nuts. We'll get to Lutnik, by the way.

But this was an answer related to the first half of your question, John. So let's let this play right here, Dief. Why Les Wexner hired Jeffrey Epstein? Personal work. For the Rothschild family in France. Well, specifically, I talked to L.E. de Rothschild, and so I mentioned that earlier. So he represented their whole families that have been a whole bunch of people. Most of them I never would have met, but I knew L.A.

He would say, like, I'm providing financial advice to the founders of Google. I'm financial providing financial advice to Jeff Bezos. To be clear, that was later. Answered question. Okay. That's good. That was later when he did that. That wasn't from that answer right there.

it seemed to me when you see the foot there's a full four minute version of that as well that what wexner was saying whether it's true or not is certainly a question but what he was saying is that he was really hitting at the point that like because he personally talked to some of the members of the raw child's family and they confirmed at the time this allegedly being in the mid to late 80s something like that right right that they were in fact working with geoffrey on whatever basis they were he decided to do it those are bona fides Yeah. Yeah. So first of all, do you believe that or you think there's more there? Oh, there's got to be more there. So far in this entire story, nothing has been as it seemed. Nothing. There's been more behind all of it, behind every

revelation. And if only half of it's been released and we're flipping out over what we've seen so far, what's the other half include? You know? And why wasn't it released? Is it even worse? than what we've seen? Is it just a continuation of what we've seen? I will say that there are a lot of very important people out there who have questions that need to be answered. I hate that the statute of limitations is a problem here. I hate that very much. Where is the statute of problems specifically? A problem in that this stuff can't be prosecuted. Which stuff? Like child sex crimes. Really? Yeah. There aren't going to be any charges against anybody. They're going to be civil suits, but nobody's going to be charged with a crime. If you look at, even in the UK,

the UK has been very straightforward about all this. They have Mandelson now and former Prince Andrew. Andrew was charged with passing a document to Epstein that had to do with British business and trade negotiations. Alamama deal. The Aliamama deal. That's exactly right. And then Mandelson is rumored to have given him something from the defense ministry, which could be a violation of the state, the official secrets act. But none of this stuff has to do with sex. We'll come back to the Al Yamama deal because that has to deal with like the origins here. I just, there is so much on the bone that like it's so hard to stay on one thing. So I apologize to people if we jump around a lot, but like John knows everything about this case. So that'll happen a little bit. But

let's stay with Wexner for a minute. So you'd ask him about the source of wealth. Then they have a relationship for at least 20 years he claims that he cut him off in 2007 i don't know that i believe that right what else would you ask him what would be the burning or to quote howard letnik cutting questions yeah i mean i would ask questions that i know he wouldn't answer truthfully or honestly like i would want rundowns of every time he went to that island there's a reason why literally every room, including the bathrooms, were wired for audio and video. Nobody does that.

He said he only went there once on his boat with his family on the record. Right. I hope that's true. I don't believe him. I agree. Not if you've been a, not just a friend, but a close friend, a best friend for more than two decades. You went to the guy's house one time?

Come on. It's like Dief was saying with Howard Lutnik's answer at Congress, where he's like, I went to the island. It was only for an hour and I left with my wife, my children, and our nannies. Yeah, yeah, because people fly all the way to the Caribbean for one hour. He's like, he couldn't say, Dief's like, you couldn't say you were there for the afternoon. Exactly. I mean, it's a fucking island. Exactly.

You know? And that was after Lutnik denied that they were close friends. That's it, that one. Look at Sarah Ferguson. Now she's in a whole heap of trouble. That's Prince Andrew's ex-wife. Well, we knew for a long time that Jeffrey was like floating her money because they were in debt up to their eyeballs, right?

I have a good friend who represented her as one of her attorneys, and he said she was always broke. Always broke. I don't know where the money went. How can you be a member of the British royal family and be broke? I have no idea. That whole thing's catchy. I mean specifically targeting that too.

And then after he's convicted in 2007 and she says publicly that she's cut him off, then she emails him, I'm so sorry, Jeffrey. I love you. You're the big brother I never had. And then she takes her daughters down there to visit him. And then lies about it. Like, what kind of hold did he have on people? I don't understand this.

Do you think, I don't think this for a second, but I have to ask this just so you can at least respond. Do you think some of these people might have actually believed him at his word that he's like, yeah, I accidentally ordered a 17 year old. I thought I thought you was 21. Do you think it's even possible that they would have believed it? I think it's possible that they wanted to believe it and then allowed themselves to believe it. Deep down, no, unless you're deaf, dumb and blind. Yep.

I can't imagine. no plus you know it's not like people don't talk i mean even trump said back in the day geoffrey likes him young too young for my taste yeah a lot of people said there's there's even emails i'm trying to remember who it was with maybe it was actually with mandelson but don't quote me on that where they're going back and forth and geoffrey says take a picture of you and and send me a picture of you and the little girl or something like that. And the guy goes like, ha, ha, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

I interviewed a member of the British Parliament a couple days ago for my own podcast. And he said, this is enough to bring down the British government. Yeah. Yeah. Like judgment. What kind of judgment do you people have? And look, Mandelson has always been a scumbag. Right?

everybody knew he was a crook he had been credibly accused of you know embezzlement and extortion he's just a crook they're out there in politics and so when word surfaced that he was close to Jeffrey Epstein and you know he had already had to be removed as business minister and from another couple of senior positions in the in the british labor party he swore to keir stramer now the prime minister of the UK, he swore to him that he barely knew Epstein, they had met once or twice, there was nothing to these rumors. And then the emails are released, including the photo of him with a 16-year-old girl standing in his underwear. They're both looking at a laptop, so it's clear he does not realize he's being photographed. And then he had to admit that, okay, all right,

you caught me. So he's resigned from the House of Lord. he's been thrown out of the labor party, but people aren't just angry at Mandelson. And also he was recalled as the British ambassador to the United States. He's no longer the ambassador. They're not angry just at Mandelson. They're angry at the prime minister. Because what kind of judgment do you have

when everybody in the country knew this guy was a scumbag, but because he looked you in the eye and he smiled at you and said, oh, no, no, Prime Minister, it's not true. none of it's true. And then your reaction is, okay, I'm going to make you ambassador to the United States of America. What goes through their minds? So this, Kirstormer may not last as long as Liz Truss's head of cabbage. This is, this is bad.

I don't really see the meme on that one. Yeah, so you're also tying into directly what Rokana said as well. And one thing I like about Massey and Rokana is their delivery is the same, with the exception of, I've never seen Massey get worked up like he did at Pambondi. And he rarely gets worked up. I was happy to do that. But he genuinely dislikes Pan B'Bondi. Oh, yeah. She's a liar.

But Rokana will just like, these two guys, Massey and Rokane will just like deliver this line about the Epstein files. It's like, wait, I'm sorry. What the fuck did you just say? And it's like, yeah. So we found this. And there it is. right have a good one they walk out so rocana comes out maybe like two three weeks ago and he had just walked out of the doj where they got to see some of the stuff that they haven't released and he was

like yeah so the files show that this poses an existential risk for the entire monarchy system in the UK and then therefore across Europe because they're all fucking related yes literally which you know John, obviously we kind of fought a war about that here like 250 years ago. I'm not a huge fan of monarchies. I wouldn't shed a tear about it. I put a laughing emoji every time the Crown Prince of Greece post something on Facebook. I like that. Yeah.

Crown Prince of Greece. You're not even Greek. You're Danish. How dare you? Shut up, Malacca. Get out of here. I like that. I'll retweet that when you do it.

Let me know when you do it. But it's like the other problem with this, and maybe I'm like over-th thinking this a little bit, but these systems are so entrenched. Yes. Where from a backdoor economics perspective, whether it be real estate holdings, financial holdings, funnels of money, things like that, if it all came down at once, it could crash the whole system. Yes.

That's real? I think it's real. Yeah. I was watching BBC this morning, as a matter of fact, and they said as recently as three years ago, 80% of the British people support the monarchy. Today, 50% of the British people support the monarchy. They're at a tipping point. And if the Brits go, everybody else is going to go too. Look at Norway. Whoever even heard of the Norwegian royal family. But now you got ties to Epstein. You got the Crown Princess's son, running to women. Now he's got to go

on trials. What kind of people are these? Like, is it really worth it? to prop up these phonies as your as your monarchs no i don't think so of course it's that's not the question here that's not the question it's like like if i were just responding with my anger i want the entire system we're not just talking monarchies to just fucking get a reset button that's right right but i also know how much that would affect all of us if it all happened all at once and so that's the strange dance in trying to go through this case. How do you find a way to go in with the raid, right, and hit all the cockroaches, but not, you know, accidentally sprayed in grandma's mouth at the same time? And this is where you run into that problem of statutes of limitations again.

Because it would be far easier if you could just prosecute these people. Right. And show the people of every one of these countries involved that it doesn't matter how famous you are or how, important you are, we're all equal under the law. And that's just not going to be the case here. All these famous rich people, they're all going to get away with it. It's sick. You don't think anyone in the U.S. will go to prison for this? I don't.

You know, I was talking to a constitutional attorney about this. And he said the only way that a prosecution could go forward is if the Justice Department could successfully argue that the country, that the court. cover-up of the original crime continued and constituted a conspiracy. So you couldn't be, you couldn't be prosecuted necessarily for the crime itself. You would be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit the crime. But he said even that is a stretch. With statutes of limitations though, what about all the stuff we're seeing like in this latest tranche where these things are occurring with a lot of it between 2011 and 2019.

I would think there's not as, if you were doing cannibal acts on kids in 2015, like we would be able to prosecute that. In some cases, on the, on the sex cases, the statute is five years. And so we've missed it. Which you know what? May have been a part of the plan.

Why didn't Joe fucking Biden release all this information? Exactly. Thank you. Every administration I would argue since Clinton has covered this up. And that's the thing. Absolutely. Yes. You have Trump in office right now and there's a massive cover up happening and it should be called out. We will call it out. It is what it is. We'll talk about that more. But every administration, R.D., red and blue, has had a chance to put this out. So all these Democrats who are suddenly just jumping on the train here because they can, right? And they can read a question their intern gave them. That's an easy slam dunk because they covered this up. It's like I have no energy for those

people either. This is this is a systemic problem that has happened to where you're just at a point now where the Democrats are like, well, the Clintons are so far past time and they're so old. Yes. You know, like we now we can throw them under the bus. They ain't like that no more. Nobody cares anymore. Right. But what about the victims then? How does that benefit the victims in any way? And why you finally get to depose Les Wexner, which how about the fact he was listed as a co-conspirator? in the documents. And we never knew that. And he's never been interviewed.

Never. Like where was the FBI all these years? And another thing too. And this goes back to the very basis of this case. Epstein got a sweetheart deal in 2006, right? And the U.S. attorney for the whatever it was, the Southern District, the Central District of Florida, whatever it was, I guess it was the Central District.

has said, this is Acosta who became Labor Secretary in Trump's first term, said that he was ordered to give this sweetheart deal. Okay, so where do orders come? Who, who's the only person in the, in the system there who can order a U.S. attorney to do something? That's the attorney general. Well, the attorney general was Alberto Gonzalez, who didn't brush his hair in the morning without permission from the president to the vice president, right? He was like legendary for his powerlessness and ill-suiting for the position. So was it Bush? Was it Cheney? Who was it that was close enough to Epstein that he would want to swoop in and save Epstein by giving him the sweetheart deal? Nobody's ever answered that question. And Acosta apparently genuinely doesn't know the

answer. His order came down from the Attorney General. I think I believe him on that. I do too. I believe him. Because he said he was totally belonged to intelligence. Intelligence. That was the word. He belonged to intelligence. Well, this gets into that super government kind of thing because it's like you say Bush and Cheney, which makes a lot of sense to me. But like my whole worldview is just like, oh, yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, I, I used to just piss all over people's analysis when they would start talking about the trilateral commission and Bilderberg and the Shangri-La conference. And then somebody to whom I used to be very close.

Used to. Used to. And about whom a court order exists saying I cannot talk about her in any public forum. she went to one of those events. She was invited because she rose up high enough in the corporate structure that she went. And I couldn't wait to hear. What was it like? And she said, it's a lot of really rich, really important people talking about arms deals.

Arms deal. It was all about arms deals. And she said, except for Davos, she went to DaVos. She went to Davos and she said That's where they were all talking about How to manage the global economy And I said so So all that shit's true

That they're the ones that sort of set the policy And she said yeah I saw it with my own eyes But I'm yeah I'm not allowed to identify who that person is Nor will I It's on the counter out there Usually I've never needed that before but I may need that today after hearing that.

All right, so the trilateral commission for people out there who are unfamiliar. This is something that's been written about a lot in the past. And once again, it's something that's always written off like, oh, God, this is where like. Another conspiracy theory. Well, let's not go so fast. It's all, it's a real thing. It is. They even have a website.

They have a website. We pull up the trilateral commission. And Bilderberg. They list all the people that attend. But by name, all these people. And you'll recognize 80% of them. Oh, man. Well, I mean, I guess that's hiding in plain sight.

But it's something where I guess what I should say is the connotation of it was where the conspiracy theorists would be saying something. And people would be like, no, it's just this group. It's David Rockefeller. I know, right? Arianda Rothschild, you know? and yeah listen they we put clinton on it he was he was bored after he left office you know and then you get epstein in this this sit down with steve ban and we will talk about him but you get epstein saying yeah i was on the trilateral commission and here's how i got on and he makes it

sound so simple yeah right i'm like how do you even get there buddy you're a kid from coning island yeah somebody taps you on the shoulder next thing you know you're getting an email dave can you put the camera on john yeah i i see what you're right. Son of a bitch. Really? I knew it, but really. Yeah.

It was very... How she good in there? God damn it. It was very disappointing to me. You can't talk about that by court ordered? No, sir. Yeah. I already didn't like her.

No, I really don't like her. But wow. Wow. Yeah, this is the life I've given myself. And I'm just, yeah. Yeah, this is life I'd given myself. Okay. So back to the, oh, wait, sweetheart deal,

because we're talking about where that would come from. You know, I'm trying to not let my brain run too wild with now every possible answer is all over here. It's all like absolutely the worst thing ever. But clearly, some of the answers are there. So without getting to his origin story yet, because that's, again, we're going to do that. But you talk about at the trilateral commission, they are going over arms deals and everything. And now this is entering your world of things that you have witnessed around the world and how shit works. What is it about arms deals that would make it the number one priority for the quote unquote illuminati of the world?

Of the Pentagon's one trillion dollar budget, fully a third goes to weapons and weapons systems. Right? That's just for us. So couple that with what we're able to sell to other countries whose leaders are at these conferences. I mean, we're talking about, you know, probably a majority of the American economy year after year after year. That's how we employ Americans. I read something recently. oh, the Washington Post of the New York Times, that the Pentagon has assiduously placed manufacturers,

or I shouldn't say placed manufacturers, they have placed orders with manufacturers in literally every one of the 435 congressional districts. So literally every single member of Congress has constituents who are dependent on the defense economy on the defense budget. And so there's no incentive for any member of Congress to vote no on DOD. And also paid by all those companies. Yeah, sure. I mean, it costs what, five, eight, ten, twenty million dollars to run for Congress every two years. That money's got to come from somewhere. So it comes from Defense Department packs. They buy them off on the micro and then it wins them the macro when you put the numbers together. Yeah, Dief, would you pull up here?

Just confirm it. All right, so the Washington Post reports that the Pentagon structurally distributes manufacturing and contracting across almost every congressional district to secure broad local political support, making budget cuts difficult. The strategy embeds defense spending into the local economy with analysis showing that despite a high concentration of funds among top contractors, the broader supply chain is deeply embedded in domestic districts. A friend of mine has a little kind of little mom and pop. manufacturing plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. Aeritime International?

No, no, no. It's a little, just a little place you've never heard of. Got it. And he mentioned something to me one time, oh, this is probably five years ago. He mentioned that he is entirely dependent on the Pentagon. And I was like, the Pentagon. I said, for what? Oh, I can't tell you.

It's a classified program. I said, seriously, George. Like, I thought he was making, you know, heels for shoes or something. I didn't know what he was making. And then later on, he told me like, no, it's this little widget that fits inside, you know, the motor for a, you know, Patriot missile or something like that. Nice. And it was like in Beaver County. And he's like, yeah.

And then when I saw that report in the Washington Post, I was like, oh, of course. It all makes sense. What percentage of the trilateral commission if you had. to broadly guess do you think is influenced by bankers around the world? Oh, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. All of it. Sure. The reason I ask that is because, again, I love this supra term that Tucker came up with. I think it's a great visual, right? So presidents of the power countries around the world, the ones that actually matter at the UN, right? So think like US, China, Russia. And then, you know, the people below them too. But above that you got let's say the fixer class like the upsteins of the world who really hold the power to pull the strings on the president ofante right here who are the presidents and kings and all that

shit and then above that you have the people who finance them and the people who finance them as bankers if you want to look at this this way and it's fair to do it right now look at things like financing wars to make money and profit off death, which also we could even get into the conversation of them trying to manage population control in doing so. Is that a ridiculous statement? I think that's a conversation that ought to be out there. Yeah. What makes you think we should have that conversation? Like what kinds of things that you've heard? Population control and even the reverse of that is something that is now making headlines. I read an article just in the past week or two that China likely does not have 1.1 billion people,

that they've consistently lied about their population and that they probably have something closer to 650 million or 700 million people. But they want the rest of the world to believe that they have all these people because it makes the case for these strong economic numbers that they're always putting out,

which also are probably not true. A country like Greece, Greece is in trouble because Greece went through this very long-term economic, It was a depression. It wasn't even a recession. It was a depression. And so much of the educated middle class, doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, they just left. They went to the U.S., the UK, Australia, Canada, Germany. And so there almost is no middle class or no upper middle class in Greece. It just left. Well, the economy then is unsustainable because there's

nobody there to create jobs. There was a piece, oh, years ago, in the Washington Post saying if you look at the shrinkage in Russia's population, if it keeps declining at its current rate, you're going to like this. In 150 years, there won't be any Russians. They just won't exist anymore. What's the State Department going to do? I know, right? Then what do you do? Now, of course, immigration changes that calculus. But, you know, we're talking about the possible what's the word the possibility the countries just can no longer remain viable as countries without real population changes i told you about my encounter with david rockefeller did i not you did not tell me about that no i was i was working in byrain in the american embassy i was the

economic officer and i was a longtime subscriber to this wonderful magazine called art news magazine and i read this article about David Rockefeller being given this major, like, art world award for the work that he's done over the course of, you know, 75 years or whatever it was for art in New York. And then we get a cable from the State Department saying that David Rockefeller is coming to Bahrain because he's being given an award by the Bahraini American Bankers Association. And the ambassador comes into my office, David Ransom. wonderful, wonderful ambassador, lovely human being, one of the best bosses I ever had. And he said, hey, we got a cable from state saying that David Rockefeller's coming out to Bahrain. He's going to

collect this award from the Bankers Association. I said, the Bankers Association. And he said, yeah, I want you to be his control officer. I said, I'd love to be his control officer. What that means is you arrange the car, you arrange the hotel, you make sure he gets from point A to point B, and just make sure there are no problems. If he wants to go shopping, you take him shopping, you do anything he wants. I welcomed it. Well, as soon as the Bahrainis heard

that David Rockefeller was coming, his highness the emir announces we're going to do a state dinner, right? So the entire cabinet, the entire royal family, the entire diplomatic corps, all the ambassadors, all the credited diplomats,

this is a major event. Like the biggest social event of the year, it's at his main palace. They're like 500 people there. So I go and I was saving my congrats. See, I thought I was very clever. I was just a stupid kid. So I saved my congratulations for his award for the receiving line.

So I say to the emir, it's such a pleasure to see you, your highness. And I said the prime minister, we didn't like each other very much. You're like, you know, hello. Hello. Hello. He would always say hello, karyak. Yeah. And then he would kind of stare at me. You're like the spy version of a VEP episode. I don't know if anyone ever told you that.

And then it comes to David Rockefeller and I said, Mr. Rockefeller, I wanted to congratulate you on your, you know, whatever it was called award. Oh, he lights up. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of that award, the Guggenheim and the Madness. And then I, you know, go. And then the next night, he collects his award from the Bankers Association and he leaves. So we had a nine o'clock meeting in the embassy every day. It was, you know, the ambassador of the deputy chief of mission and the heads of all the departments. So I'm in there in the morning meeting. And the ambassador says, so the Rockefeller visit went very well. And I said, because I'm an idiot, I said, why would a guy who's almost a hundred years old fly halfway around the world to collect a little trophy from some bankers that he's never met before?

And the bastard goes like this, he goes, John, John, you're supposed to be the smart one. I said, what? What am I missing? He's like, he didn't come for the banker's award. That was his cover stuff. And I said, so what was he doing here? He said, David Rockefeller is. the secret back channel to Saddam Hussein.

He came here to make it look like he had business in the Middle East. We put him on a military transport this morning and sent him to Baghdad to tell Saddam Hussein to cut it out or you're going to get a bomb up your ass. And then he flew back from Baghdad. And I was like, man, I have a lot to learn. That didn't impact your worldview a little bit? Oh, yeah, it sure did. Like things are not what they seem

Might be an inappropriate thing to say these days But that's like a Jay-Z line Yeah We got Rockefeller out there with Saddam Yeah Yeah, that's I'm friendly with his daughter now And she

A Rockefeller? Yeah, Abby Rockefeller She's very sweet No, no, no, she's a communist And yeah, Abby's great She went to Harvard in the 60s and became a communist and rebelled against her family and she gives all of her money to left-wing charities and concerns.

She's fantastic. That's too good. Keep going. I'm sorry. No, I mentioned the story to her, and she said, yeah, that sounds exactly like something my dad would do. Yeah. What do I know? Yeah, well, she went the opposite way.

I give her that, I guess. But how'd you become friends with her? I'm on the board of Covert Action Magazine and she's a supporter of the magazine. No kidding. That's not covert action magazine. That doesn't sound sketchy at all. It was founded by Philip Agey, who the CIA tried to assassinate for decades. He was a CIA case officer who saw what covert actions were doing to innocent people in Latin America in the late 60s.

And so he went public and wrote a book called Inside the Company. and as an appendix at the back of the book, he listed the names of every CIA officer he ever encountered and outed everybody and then took off for Cuba. And the CIA hunted him down from country to country to country. They finally gave up. He died in Cuba, I don't know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And his son has kept the magazine going.

and the co-founder of the magazine, Lou Wolf, shout out to Lou, who's now like 87 or 88 years old, he's good friend of mine. This was Lou's baby with Philip Agee, and the magazine's still a monthly concern. I write for it every month. Do you think we have so many examples of where covert actions were just taken for like imperialism purposes or just because we felt like overthrowing government? There's actually a Wikipedia page. Let's pull it up.

Yeah. CIA covert action, Wikipedia. The first one was the 1949 Italian election. Right, with the communists. There was a deleted scene in the godfather that Francis Coppola put in there where Michael's walking in the fields with Fabrizio. Yeah. And he sees it in the hillsides at Corleone.

And he sees the red like little army of, you know, communist supporters right there. And he's like, okay fatchua or whatever. And Fabrizio was like, communisti. And that was right around that, it's taken place right around the time where that was going to be a thing where they were going to come in and take over the power vacuum post Mussolini with the opposite side. And then CIA is like, no, no, you don't. That covert action operation, it was the first one and it's been declassified by the CIA. It was very simple. They gave $150,000 in cash to the Christian Democratic Party, which was the conservative party.

It was behind the communists in the polls. They were going to lose the election. The communists were going to win. You can't have a communist government in Western Europe, right? That's just for the Eastern Party Europe. And so what they did is they used that money to bribe journalists to write pro-conservative articles in the run-up to the election. And they were able to swing just enough votes that the conservatives won. And it was only 150 grand.

Yeah, it was the first one. So that was a lot of money. money in the 40s. I know, but for the whole party, for a bunch of journalists, I mean, I'm splitting up that pie. It's getting smaller and, you think like Don Calo Vitzini was taking a baseball bat to people, too? Well, I mean, think of it this way, too. If you're a journalist and you're asked to write 500 words, that's probably worth $500 in 1949 money. I mean, if that's what you get paid today, that was a lot of money in 1940. Yeah, but if I'm going to swing an election, you've got to add a zero to that. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, so you're...

All right. So we're looking at this Wikipedia page. Everyone else can pull this up too. And it's funny because Wikipedia is run by the CIA and they can't even stop this article from happening. Well, oftentimes the CIA gets outed when people look at the, at the ISP information for the editors. It oftentimes goes back to Langley. They're that dumb. Come on. Yeah, they're that dumb. Really? Yeah. I remember in my own case, we asked, we asked, we asked. for something in discovery. I don't remember what it was. And it was, we were, we were having a meeting, all the attorneys, I had 11 attorneys. And one of them said, hey, we should ask for X. And one of the other attorneys said, oh, come on, they're not that stupid. And he said, no, actually, they are that stupid.

And sure enough, they had fucked it up. And they ended up having to drop three charges. just because of that. They're arrogant. They think they're smarter than everybody else is that they don't make mistakes or even if they do make mistakes you're not smart enough to figure out

that they've made a mistake. And that's just simply not true. But it's also like, John, they have a VC arm as we've outlined before everyone outlines it in QTEL. And they admit who they invest. Oh yeah, we threw money in Palantir. Sure.

And now look at Palantir. Billions in revenue. And it's like, that's where sometimes I wonder, yes, I hear you, there's hubris there, there's fuck you, we can do what we want. We're seeing that play out on a massive scale right now. But sometimes I wonder if there's, if I'm crazy to wonder it too, if there's like a 5D chess thing here where people are like, we know some of this shit will come out. And that's what we want to happen because we want society to flip the fuck out. Sure, that happens.

That happens sometimes. And it could have happened with things that. Not even related to your case, but that CIA might do as it relates to Wikipedia where they're like, yeah, people will flip out about this by 2025 after 2026 after we do that whole pandemic thing. Right, exactly. Oh, well, exactly. I mean, as an example. No, sure.

Why not? Hypothetically. Hypothetically, sure. Sure. And another thing, too, is if you throw, you know, so many of these ideas for operations out there or these little mini operations, there are some that are just going to, you know, not come to people's attention. They're not going to realize that it's a some sort of a covert action operation or disinformation operation.

A disinformation. See, that's the big one now today. You don't know who's behind keyboards anywhere, right? We do it to a ton of people. But even the people who are supposed to be the good guys, you can't trust. I've told you this before. I've got this buddy, Jason Leopold. He's at Bloomberg.

Jason is one of the best investigative journalists I've ever encountered in my life. and honest, honest as the day is long. He, he's the FOIA king. He's filed more Freedom of Information Act request than anybody else in the history of the Freedom of Information Act. To the point where George W. Bush's Pentagon spokesman called him a FOIA terrorist. On the record, called him a FOIA terrorist. It was Jason that broke the Hillary Clinton email scandal. Whoa, I didn't know that.

Through a FOIA request. He got that to a FOIA That's it Mm-hmm So he told me This is about 10 years ago He told me that he was bored One one week

Over Christmas break He was bored So he just filed a FOIA request He had nothing else to do Yeah, that's right And he asks for All communications Between the CIA

And all journalists Period For this period No no for this period Of this period of whatever it was A year I think is what it was. And, you know, the CIA never, ever, ever answers FOIAs.

They send you a letter saying, okay, thank you. It's in Q. Well, I filed a FOIA request 15 years ago. I'm still waiting. What's the legality of that, though? They have 60 days. So what happens is when day 60 comes, you have to sue them. And you will always win.

And because the law is clear, they have 60 days. You will always win. and the judge will always make them pay your legal fees because you because you won but he wins every single so they do give it to him yeah they have to why haven't you gotten yours it's been 15 years because i haven't sued them i don't i don't care anymore i wanted to write an article about start a go fund me so john can sue these guys i wanted to write an article about um a guy who i i think was probably a CIA officer in the early 50s and he was he was probably a CIA officer in the early 50s and he became a science fiction author

and then he had a mental breakdown and committed suicide and I think he was one of the MK Ultra victims Do you want to say who this is? You know what to tell you the honest to God's truth? I don't remember his name anymore. It's been so many years. I'm sure I still have the FOIA request. The way that started, I was worried you were going to say El Ron Hubbard.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Me and me for like, oh, shit. No, I don't want to poke that horn is next. I have enough problems in my life. Thank you. take on the Church of Scientology. No way. So anyway, he files this FOIA request at Christmas.

This is like Christmas of 2015, maybe. And they don't respond. So he sues them. He used the same attorney every time. Jeffrey Laiet, who is now retired. Jeffrey never, ever, ever lost a FOIA case. And so finally, they just give him this dump. And he found several things that were fascinating.

One, Kendallanian, formerly of the Los Angeles Times, now the chief intelligence correspondent, chief national security correspondent for NBC News and MS now. Okay? He was writing articles and then sending them to the CIA for clearance before he sent them to his own editors. Is it okay, guys, if I write this about you? Because if it's not okay, just tell me. And I'll kill it. Oh, no.

Yeah. Number one. Scandalous. He should have resigned. Yeah. Number two. There was this young, unknown, hungry, independent journalist who actually stumbled on a story. And he's like, hey, I found this information and I'm writing this article.

It's going to go out tomorrow. Would you care to comment? And they wrote back to him. and they said, so help us, God, if you publish this, you will never be invited to the Christmas party ever again. And we will never give you an off-the-record briefing. You're going to be banned. And he killed his own article.

You know, people say all the time, oh, Operation, you know, Grasshopper, whatever it was called, paper, not paperclip. What was the one that, where they were recruiting journalists? Operation. Oh, my God. whatever. Not midnight climax. No, that was part of MK Ultra.

Yeah, yeah. M.K. Chiquid. Can we look that up deep? Mark Gagnon and I talked about that in September 2024 on his show. I remember that, but I can't remember my name. Mockingbird,

Operation Mockingbird. People are like, well, you know, Operation Mockingbird, they don't need Operation Mockingbird anymore. They just threaten you and tell you you're not invited to the Christmas party. They don't need to recruit people anymore. It's access journalism. That's exactly what it is. It's the problem.

And it's a result of the demise of investigative journalism. Very, very few outlets anywhere in America have budgets for investigative journalism anymore. I have, I can't say that I've had people like from intelligence or something call up and try to get you to do stuff. But I've had some weird calls from normal people with normal jobs, you know, let's say in like middleman type things, where they're trying to. to anchor you to ideas and stories and certain people and stuff like that. I've dealt with it a lot. And it to me immediately blinks off as like audience capture. And almost all the time, these are things that if I did it, not every time, but a lot of

the times, if I did it, we'd make a lot of money. Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. I won't say what it was, but there were back-to-back days a couple months ago where I was offered whale and whale. These are episodes that would they would pay my bills for seven, eight months. And I could not have said no fast enough. Good for you. Because I know algorithmically what it would also do. And that's what they do. They want to get people they, they, whoever the fuck they are, because it's someone who's below 10 levels. And you'll never figure it out,

who they are. They want to influence people to get, just certain things in the algorithm at all time so that their income becomes tether to that. And that's a really dangerous thing. I've said to people before, I knew the system probably enough by March or April 2022 that I won't get into details. But if I wanted to have eight or nine million subscribers today, I could have done it. I have 1.13. Which is also incredible. Thank you. I would love to be able to have more money to put into this, though, and really be able to build it out. And I can't do that. But I've kept my principles intact in doing that because to get to that eight or nine, you are selling your soul. There is absolutely no middle ground. There is no gray area. I know exactly what it was. And it's like, do it or don't. But that's an easy call for me. Yeah. I have to agree with you. If you don't have your, self-respect and independence, then what do you have? Yeah.

Now, there's another side to what you're saying, though, about the journalists, though, that gets really weird. And a mutual friend of ours, Joby Warwick, has talked about this openly. Jobi's like the guiding light on this issue. Yeah. And he's very diplomatic. One of the most diplomatic people I've ever met in my life.

So Joby's been the national security reporter forever. Forever at the Washington Post. He's got two Pulitzer's. And he's an incredible author. Like his books just rocket straight to number one on the New York Times bestsellers list. And they're incredibly researched. They're so well done. But love the guy.

And the very first time I ever talked with him on episode 134, he was going through it and then talked about it with me off camera. He said, there's a really tough thing. He's like, I've got sources in intelligence that I'm really good friends with and stuff. And that's like, then are they telling you the truth? Are they using the friendship? But then also he goes, you'll write a story. And as a journalist, you have to go to the people involved with the story and offer a chance to comment before he gets published. And he'll get a call from CIA with his editor in the room right there or NSA or whoever and say, if you publish this X number of people will die.

Yeah, they always say that. Right. And he said, we legit have to go. into a conference room and basically play like blind, you know, monkeys throwing darts at the board to see if this is one of those where they're lying or not. That's absolutely true. Yes. And if it's really, really sensitive, you'll get a call from the National Security Advisor above the CIA director. Shouldn't that set off a lot of alarm bells, though? Definitely. What is the line there? Like if you, let's say there is one and for real.

150 people, whoever they are, are going to die from it. But there's no easy answer. I will say, though, that they throw that whole blood on your hands argument at people all the time. Tom Drake tells this fantastic story. Tom Drake, the NSA whistleblower. Tom is the one who first told us that NSA was spying on Americans after 9-11. They were just waiting for 9-11 to happen so that they could spy on Americans, which is what they did. And they continued to do 25 years later.

So Tom was charged with nine felonies, including seven counts of espionage and two counts of theft of government property, which was the information. He walked out of the building with the information in his head and they charged him with theft. Thought crime. Yeah. So to make a long story short, the entire case fell apart and all of the charges were thrown out. But he went to a proffer meeting at the Justice Department where they say, here's the information we have against you. And here's the sentence we're going to ask for when we convict you.

Unless you want to confess, tell us some answers to questions we may have, and then we can talk about a slightly lighter sentence. So he was looking at, it was like 55 years. It was, I think it was 55 years, it was a long time. And they said, you have the blood of dozens of American soldiers on your hands. And to his credit, he says, name one, one single soldier who died because I said NSA was spying on Americans. Name one, and I'll take a guilty plea. Name him.

And then they backed off. And then later on, after the case was thrown out, They left the accusations against him on the NSA and the DOJ websites, but they took out the slide where they accused him of having the blood of American soldiers on his hands. They just make that shit up and throw it at you to scare you. They do it all the time. They even did it with Maduro. Yeah, sure.

Who's a bad guy. Yeah, sure. Remember the Cartel de los Solis? Yeah. That got removed from the indictment the minute he touched down over here on 30th Street. Mm-hmm. Never existed. There's, I don't, I forget the term for it off the top of my head, maybe if I describe it, right, you can look it up deep, but like the, ah, it's like obfuscation by overstimulation, like providing way too much information that people are like, I ain't reading all that, that you can just kind of like poke in little things. Like millions of Epstein documents.

That's exactly. I love the transition that you were catching on to there, John, because. as you said correctly and we should go back to that now because that's why people are here but as you said very correctly there's another two and a half to three million documents i've heard varying numbers on that correct me in the comments people that they have now said we're never going to release and people like tim buchette have come out and said who's seen some of these documents has come out and said things like this includes cannibalism yeah and stuff like that and you have to wonder when you think about, let's say, a report that Marjorie Taylor Green has relayed about her conversation with Donald Trump on this to where he said, this is going to hurt a lot of my friends if it comes out. You have to wonder what types of friends are being protected, obviously, and then furthermore, why the fuck are you friends with these people? These are the things they do. Because to me, it's like, I don't want the president to be a pedophile. or associated with that and stuff. Fuck, I want to believe he's not.

But they fired Joe Paterno in two days for covering up one guy in 2002. The guy had the fucking stadium named after him in Penn State. This is the president of the United States who along, again, and I will say this, along with every administration before him, name him, Clinton, Obama, Bush, Biden, Trump won, all of them. They've all covered this up. And it's the most massive pedophobic. and many other things scandal.

We'll talk about the national security in a minute that we've ever seen. What does that say about him? A lot, unfortunately. And I'll add something to that. There's an internal Bureau of Prisons rule at DOJ that anybody convicted of a child sex crime is forbidden from serving his or her sentence in a minimum security work camp. Can't do it. They also don't serve their sentences in maximum security penitentiaries or medium security prisons

because they'll be killed there, right? Everybody beats on pedophiles in prison. So all of the pedophiles go to low security prisons. So there's still, you know, the double concertina wire and the controlled movements and all that stuff. But in a minimum, you're free to just come and go as you please. There are no locked doors. There are no bars in the windows. most everybody works in town, you know, as a janitor or a gardener.

Pedophiles are working in town? They're not supposed to be because there aren't supposed to be any pedophiles in the minimum security work camps. But that's where Galane Maxwell was sent. Minimum security work. She's the only pedophile in the entire federal prison system who's in a minimum security work camp. And she was transferred there by the president.

Why? Why would he do something like that? sent you an article before this, Dief, there were a few in the text. I don't know if you can pull it up. There was the guy talking about the three reports related to Maxwell and Trump.

If you just go through our text chain, it's somewhere in there. But, Defe, we'll get it in a sec, because I sent Dief like 15 things right before we went on. But you have to wonder. I mean, this is a lady who's pictured at the Clinton's

daughter's funeral leaning over, the edge. This is a lady who's pictured with every master of the universe. This is a lady who's directly tied to the royal family whose father is at the center of this whole thing, who knew Donald Trump for 30. Like they know she knew everybody. So what does she, what does she have on him? Like, maybe here's a good way to start it. Do you see any scenario where Jeffrey Epstein as a spy, which he definitely was a spy, was not prioritizing blackmail as a means. to get whatever it is he needed to get? He had to have been.

Right. I mean, what's the point of running the operation if it's not to collect compromise on everybody just in case? You know, one of the things that I learned very early on at the CIA was

we really, really didn't like to squeeze people, right? With, you know, surreptitiously taken photographs of them with problems. prostitutes or, you know, you want to recruit somebody based on a friendly relationship. You want them to do it because they like you and they trust you. They're probably doing it for the money. Right. But you don't want to threaten people. The Russians do that. The Israelis also do that. And so from the very beginning, I thought that this was a part of the whole Epstein saga. It was about blackmail.

It had to have been. I don't understand it otherwise. I don't understand what the draw. First of all, he's a creepy-looking guy. Yeah. He's naked half the time, apparently. Virginia Jewfrey said he had a deformed penis that looked like an egg. So what's this guy have going for him besides money?

But they all have money. So what's a difference? Now I want to say something serious, but it's making me laugh. So I had an Epstein victim sitting. that chair the other day. This part's not funny. But the thing that really struck me in what she was saying, and that episode will come out after this one, by the way, people.

It'll be two episodes. Was how brilliant of a manipulator he was. Oh, that's interesting. And that's what he had going for him. And I'm going to give you an example on this that she would say. He would call her up because she was a model. and actress and set her up with meetings in Hollywood, New York, wherever that he's not going to be at. Was someone powerful that he knew?

And the idea is that she's going to get rid at these meetings. Oh, my God. And she would go to them, and most of the time nothing would happen. But he would call her after every single one. Now, when she brought this up an hour earlier, I had asked her the question. I had said, do you think that... Like, we don't know much about Jeffrey Epstein's childhood. We know he had parents.

We know he did brother. Grew up in Coney Island, but we don't know what was going on when Jeffrey Epstein was nine years old. So it's possible he's a monster that was abused as a child. Certainly possible. Sure. But, like, let's assume he wasn't. Where do you think a person like that learns the psychological tactics to be able to

become this monster to get people? And she was like, that's a great question. And it's like a rhetorical question. I don't expect anyone to have an answer. But then an hour. later she's talking about these phone calls. He would call her after all of these meetings and he'd want to know every detail. Like, like drastically like, all right, what do you say? What do you do? And he'd be like, did you hook up with him? Which means that she would have been raped. And she'd be like, no. And you'd be like,

why not? When you went in there, what do you do? What do you say? And I said, oh my God, he's like Bill Belichick and Tom Brady watching football tape except he's getting tape of fucking predators and what works and what does it. And so that guy has, and so that guy, having a lot of those types of skills and like the first time he came in and met her he wanted to know all about her dreams her family the dynamics what she was interested in life places she wanted to go you know all these psychological things that hook you to someone and make you trust them he obviously had those skills and these skills would be paramount correct me if i'm wrong in being able to be someone who wanted to surreptitiously get information for espionage purposes is that fair to say absolutely yes

100%. So with the blackmail, I was talking with someone else on the phone the other day, who I'll probably have on the podcast to talk about this and make the arguments. But he was, I don't know, steel manning, the argument that the blackmail was defensive blackmail, paranoia blackmail. And at the end of his argument, I said to him, I was like, every leap you had to make to make the argument that it was just defensive in nature. I don't have to make a single one of those leaps to say it was offensive in nature.

Absolutely right. Absolutely right. You know, and it's one thing to have a little kernel of a story that you tuck back in your mind just in case you need it to protect yourself at some point. It's an entirely different thing to 24 hours a day collect intelligence on everybody. I just don't buy the argument that it was defensive in nature. No. Meaning he was doing that for himself, but the question is, and now we should get to the origin story, was he doing that at the behest as a literal employee or as a...

Well, see, that's really the $64,000 question. And my thinking has evolved. Do you know what that's a reference to? I actually don't. Oh, it was a game show in the 1950s called the $64,000 question. It was like Jeopardy. You get to the end, and if you win the big prize, it's $64,000. But it went off the air because it turned out it was fixed.

And so the producers and the hosts were prosecuted. So it was no longer on TV after a few years. Anyway, when somebody cuts right to the chase, that's the $64,000 question. Gotcha. My thinking has changed on this, has evolved on this. I've always maintained that Epstein, to me, was obviously a Mossad access agent. And I said that right here on the show. Now, with the release of this latest tranche of documents, I think he was more than that

and that he was probably not exclusive to the Israelis. I think he was what's called an intelligence peddler or an intelligence broker. but a more sophisticated one. What an intelligence peddler is normally is, let's say, you are a Pakistani guy and you work in a restaurant. And two Al-Qaeda guys come into the restaurant, they have lunch and you hear something. You go to the American embassy and you say,

listen, I've got this bit of information. I want to talk to a CIA officer. So John comes downstairs and I say, well, what do you have? And you give me the information. Okay, sounds plausible. I'm going to give you a few hundred dollars for your trouble. But then you go to the British embassy and do the same thing. And then the French embassy and then the Russian embassy and then the Chinese embassy. And you've just made six months worth of salary, right? That's an intelligence peddler. Epstein would have been far, far more sophisticated than that. And his intelligence is not coming from two altrualien.

kite guys having lunch. It's coming from Bill Clinton and Bill Gates and Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew and all of these other movers and shakers that he was constantly in touch with. Now, who would it have been for? Well, we now know from these documents that through his attorney, he was actively seeking an admission by the CIA that he was somehow associated with the CIA. And they did the same thing with the National Security Council. It doesn't look like they ever got a response. They foied them when he went to jail in summer 2019. And he foiled this was what was interesting. He foiled them for the dates between sometime in 2000 and 2014. Now here's why this was interesting to me, John, because there's a bigger point I don't want to get lost, but a little

tangent. I've, I'm very open-minded on this now, because I agree with you. I think we're seeing a lot more. and I think like, I saw Dave Smith tweet out something that would have seemed crazy a few weeks ago. And now I'm like, that's not crazy where he said, I used to think Epstein worked for Mossad. Now I wonder if Mossad worked for Epstein. I don't think I'm there. However, it does feel like there wasn't a, I used the word employee in my question. It does not feel like there was an employee relationship. I agree.

And that's one of the things that I've changed in my own mind, not an employee. of Mossad. We know from these latest documents that he had some sort of association with MI5 and MI6, essentially the FBI and the CIA of the UK. That's right. We know that he made an approach to the German intelligence service. And we know that he tried hard to get a one-on-one meeting with Vladimir Putin. They went back and forth and back and forth. And finally the Russians agreed that he could meet with Putin and three other people. And he said, no, it has to be just Putin and the Russian said no. What the fuck is that all about?

Why would he, what would he have to say to Vladimir Putin? That is so sensitive that the head of the, you know, SVR couldn't be in the room. He had to say it directly to Putin. All right. Let me throw a fish in line out here. That's all this is, people. It's a fish in line. You don't have to bite on this.

So I had David Satter in for episodes 92 and 133 back in. back in 2022. I don't know how you remember the episode numbers. I don't remember who I interviewed a week ago. And I see the icon pop up on my thing. I'm like, I have no idea who that is. I have a photographic audiovisual memory. It helps.

But David Satter was actually roommates with Bill Clinton, or on the same hall as Bill Clinton at Oxford and knew him. And then later had some issues with Clinton, which was interesting. Really a nice guy. I like David. David became the chief Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times in 1976. Wow. He was then kicked out of the Soviet Union in somewhere, the area 87, 88. He was one of the last people unkicked out after it flipped over to being Russia again, but came back. And as Russia was rebuilding itself, if you want to call it that, became the preeminent,

psychologist of Putin in the Western world. He eventually became the first Western journalist to be banned from Russia in December 2013, conveniently right before Maidan, when he was at the Ukrainian embassy looking to go back into Russia. Basically, he got the FSB line where they're like, I forget what the exact line. It was like 15 minutes into episode 92. It was very dramatic, but like it was something like, whoa, okay, you're going to get whacked if you go in there. And so David obviously has a lot of strong opinions because Putin literally killed some of his friends. Boris Nemtsov was someone who was tight with.

And Apolitzkaya was someone he was tight with. Right? So obviously he doesn't like him at all. And I fully understand that. But I was after David was there the first time, I was reading one of his books, and I forget which one it was. But there was a little mention in there

that just made my, like, the hairs on my arm go up. Six months before that, maybe, I had been reading this series by Henry Abbott about the relationship between Jeffrey Epstein and Apollo Global. That ring a bell? Yeah. Yeah. So Drexel Burnham Lambert becomes the guys who found Leon Black, all that. Basically, Henry Abbott was a – is a basketball reporter.

He had a blog on ESPN called True Hoop. I used to read this when I was a kid. And then ESPN laid off everybody in the 2010s because they lost money. So he just kept his blog and did it from the outside. So he sees that some guys from Apollo Global get on the ownership of like three different NBA teams. And in 2020, he's like, that's interesting. They're kind of connected to Epstein. Let me do an investigation.

Oh, my God. He's planning on doing a two or three part investigation. Fucking guy goes nuts. It becomes a 21 chapter investigation, some of the greatest shit I have ever read in my life. And one of the things that he really outlined and it was sourced out the fucking wazoo was the whole Adnan Keshogi. thing. And the ad-in, I've been waiting to bring this up the whole time, the ad-in relationship with Jeffrey Epstein from an arms dealing perspective, from a sex trafficking perspective, from an international like government communication perspective. So fast forward again, back six months later,

I'm reading David's book and he mentions this one war that was like war. It was like one day. Yeah. That happened in the middle of like the second Chechen war when Putin's basically seizing power at the time as a wartime leader and then eventually is able to move up the elections. and get into the office, get into office. But some, I forget even what it was, but some army invaded that was related to Russia, correct me from wrong in the comments, but it was something like this, basically like invaded Dagestan with a bunch of helicopters, dropped, you know, a few bombs or something, and then left, and they were going to come back.

But a meeting was organized between the Russian government and the Dagestanis in either Monte Carlo or Nice. at the home of Adnan Khashoggi and he just had it in there. That is a very, that is a stereotypical Adnan Khashogi thing to do. And why would that be for people out there who are not familiar with Adnan Khashoggi?

Anna Khashoggi, his actual name in Arabic is Khashokji. Saudi, Saudi arms dealer, Saudi man about the world. fixer, friend of kings and presidents and prime ministers, the uncle of Jamal Khashokchi,

who was the Washington Post columnist, whacked by the Saudi crown prince. Believe he's a cousin to Doty Fayette, too. No way. Did I just say that out loud? Can we Google that? Is that true? Did I make that up?

I might have made that up. Khashoggi related to Doty Fayyad. So, you know, when... He's a maternal. uncle. No way. The Fayeds are Egyptians. Yeah. Uncle and nephew. Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi was the maternal uncle of Doty Fayyad, making them

uncle and nephew rather than cousins. Doty Fayette's mother was Samira Khashoggi. Oh my God. Like actual uncle and nephew. And Doty Fayette was the man that Princess Diana was dating who was killed alone. alongside her. Incredible phrase. I never knew that. I never knew that. Continue, John.

So... It's all time together! It is! It's all time! The world's not a, not a big place. No. So when Congress passed a law

in 1983 that we could no longer arm the contra rebels, Colonel Oliver North, who was the Pentagon designee to the National Security Council, decided to just go around the law. And he did that by contacting Adnan Khashokchi and organizing a very

complicated operation whereby we would sell arms to the Iranians, which was against the law. We would do that through Khashokchi. He used his own bank account in Cyprus to take payment for the weapons. And then he would give the money. He would take. He would take. take, you know, 10% for himself. He was Mr. 10%. He would take the money and then transfer it to accounts controlled by Oliver North and John Poindexter and Admiral Richard Seacord, all from the National Security Council, and then use that money to buy arms on the gray market to send to the Contra rebels. It was all illegal. Everybody was indicted. Nobody really was punished, even though they were indicted. And Anand Khashokchi just took his money and smiled and got back on the yacht

and steamed around the Mediterranean. He's a fixer among many other things. But who, he worked for himself. Who did he most assist in his efforts? I genuinely don't know the answer to that question. Probably us. Okay. I mean, he was very, very close to the Saudi royal family, of course. He was a Saudi is a Saudi. I think he's still alive. Although he's got to be really old by now. He was very close to the Saudi leadership. He's deceased now? Oh, yeah, 2017. Yeah, he was pretty old. Yeah, he wasn't that old, 83, 82. So he was one of these guys like Mark Rich, who would just deal with anybody who had money, anybody who could pay. So he would work with the Israelis, he would work with the Americans, he would work with, you know, anybody. The Libyans, the North Koreans, it just, it didn't make any difference.

Now, there's two guys though, because what you're talking about also with Iran-Contra ties into that Al Yamama deal that happened, which was around the same area. I'll come back to that. But there's, there's two guys that Epstein, comes into contact with upon leaving bear sterns who basically seemed to cut his teeth in arms dealing and I'll say sex trafficking he probably already had pretty good expertise in money laundering which he seemed to learn well when he was on Wall Street but it's Khashoggi and english pronunciation there and Douglas Lease I don't know him in Britain so Douglas Lease I fuck I should have had this there's a guy who did an amazing 20-minute, like documentary on YouTube outlining this whole thing. I want to find it so that we can

give him credit. But I had heard about this before. Douglas Lees was a guy that Epstein claimed to have a falling out with later who was basically like a British fixer and arms dealer who took in Jeffrey. I forget how he got introduced to him. But it was at the same time as Hoshogi and they started, then the Iran-Contra thing came in, and the Al-Yamama deal came in in Saudi Arabia. And what happened later is that Epstein's fake passport, which is like Maurice or something, whatever, was recovered, which you can deduce from the time it would have had to be provided to be that good by some sort of intelligence service. Is that fair to say? Absolutely. In the early 80s?

And they were able to afterwards chart with the information we've gotten. through files chart all of Epstein's movements through countries directly related to Saudi, getting to Saudi Arabia on all the right dates to help in some way for this deal to go through. Is he not working for anyone, because there's something I'm going to bring up after this, but at that point, is he just a guy who's getting introduced to these other independent contractors and therefore just working for them and it serves whatever purpose it serves? Or do you think at that point perhaps he was already working with Mossad or CIA or both. Oh, I think the latter. Especially Mossad, they're very good at spotting talent. They really are. A lot of thought goes into

this kind of thing. And, you know, the way, the way his career moved as quickly as it did, the way he accumulated wealth at a fantastic speed. Right. Tells me that he connected with an official body early on. When I was at the CIA, I never, ever heard of Jeffrey Epstein. Not once. Not once. No, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But never once did his name ever come up. And, you know, for a while, I was up on the seventh floor spending all day, every day with the director, the deputy director, the deputy director for operations, the chief of staff, the executive director, the deputy executive director. These are serious people.

They're running the CIA. And it never, ever came up even offhandedly. Khashoggi, we talked about a lot. So you did talk about Hachoshi a lot. What was the context of that, usually? He could do anything. He could do anything. And he was willing to do anything so long as there was a nice fat paycheck for him at the end.

Right. I'd asked to another guy I know who had who was at FBI if he had come across he was like oh yeah there was a flow chart on that

big time Aliamama was so huge I mean everybody knew about Aliamama and Aliamama was also very public the

what was the nature of that deal again it was like a hundred maybe I don't want to get the number wrong can we Google that deep? Can we Just so I can refresh my own memory, too. 600,000 barrels.

So, 600,000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. Name of a series of record arms sales by the United Kingdom to Saudi Arabia, paid for by the delivery of up to 600,000 barrels of crude oil per day to the British government. The prime contractor has been Bay Systems and its predecessor of British Aerospace. The first sales occurred in September 1985 in the most recent continent. contract for 72 Eurofighter Typhoon multi-role fighters was signed in August 2006. So this goes on for a long. Decades.

Decades. Yeah. And part of what Prince Andrew is now being accused of when he was trade envoy for 10 years is covering up or refusing to share information as it pertains to Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in the Al Yamama deal. That's right. So what, see, this is yet another question that we're probably not. going to get an answer to what could Jeffrey Epstein possibly have been able to contribute in the in the

El Yamama deal? I've been thinking about almost nothing else for the last 27 hours. He's not even the right nationalities. Right. You know? He did kind of have that thing though, especially back then when he had the fro going and all that where you could kind of blend. I'll give him that. Right. But he had a he had he had those manipulation skills with people where and also John I don't know maybe you could speak to this better

because you can look at this from an espionage perspective because you're trained to think like that but in regular in the regular world right which espionage occurs in the regular world guys like him when you hear him talk the Coney Island accent

the all shucks kind of whatever just on the surface it's disarming right absolutely that's all part of the part of the thing, part of the delivery, part of the training, sure. There's something about that. It reminded me in a different way of my friend Luis Navia, who was here in episodes 21 and 222. He was like the chief smuggler for the cartels except the Asian ones, his quote, not mine,

around the world until 2000 when he was taken down an operation journey in Venezuela by like fucking 15 countries. But he walks up. you think he's a mix between Francis Ford Coppola and Mr. Magoo. He never carried a gun. He wasn't the violent guy. And he'd just be like, oh, what the fuck? And people were like, I can't even.

No, like Luis, we're holding. He would tell these stories. And they're like, no, Luis, we're going to kill you. And he's like, listen, bro, I got places to be. Like, can we go to the bar or something? And they'd be like, this fucking guy. And they just wouldn't. Some are unflappable.

Right? Yeah. And it's, I think there's a little something like that. And Jeffrey Epstein, where people. where people, even from a totally different background, worldview or, you know, political desires, they'd get in a room with them and they're like, the fucking balls on this guy. Could you see that? Absolutely.

Yeah. Although, yeah, I could see that through the first arrest even. But then he had to have concluded that things were so bad in 2019 that this, this, This was it. It was over. You know? Why? Why do you say that?

Because he killed himself. You do believe he did? I do. I believe he killed himself. What makes you believe that considering all the evidence that they have? See, but the evidence isn't as clear as I think most people would want it to be. For example, and I based this on my own experience in the federal prison system. The guards, number one, have their heads up their asses 24 hours a day.

24 hours a day. The only qualification to be a prison guard in the federal system, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is you have to be working on a GED and no felony convictions. That's it. There's this rule that prisoners can't touch the mail, right? So we have mail call every day at 4 o'clock, and the guards are supposed to say your name and hand you your mail. Most of the time, the Guards didn't do mail call. Prisoners did mail call in violation of the rules. Any idea? Why?

Because they couldn't read. It was as simple as that. The guards couldn't read. Totally incompetence, basically. Yeah. I mean, they literally could not read to call out the names. So, number one, they're idiots. Number two, the cameras are always broken.

Always. I was a janitor in the chapel when I was in prison. and every day, part of my job was to go in there and break up guys having sex in the chapel. In the chapel. Yeah. Because. In the presence of the Lord. That's what I said.

You guys, this is God's house for heaven's sake. What are you going to do? But the reason they would all be having sex in the chapel is because they knew that the cameras didn't work. None of the cameras were. The guards are supposed to be doing their rounds every day. 15 minutes or if there's a suicide watch situation going on every eight minutes. And with Epstein, it was like two hours before they finally made their rounds. Why? Because number one,

they're either jacking off in the guard booth, which happens all the friggin' time, or they're sound asleep in the guard booth, or they're on the phone with their girlfriends, or they're surfing the internet. So no, they don't make the rounds. And then people are like, oh, but there's a glitch. You know, there's this one second glitch. Yeah. Because every night, the cameras reset themselves. They're old cameras. They still use tape. And they tape over yesterday's. Then why don't they let the guards talk? Why were the guards like? Oh, they would never let the, because the guards are, I just stopped myself from saying a word that's not supposed to be retarded.

These guys are so stupid You know A guard from the prison where I was Emailed me He saw one of the podcasts And he said This is exactly why we wanted to kill you And I said bring it tough guy

Why he wanted to kill you Yeah Because I say they're morons and retards and this And it's all true It's true Learn to read And then maybe we can have a conversation I mean

otherwise put up let's go i'm not afraid of these guys but this is why everything went wrong because what we saw go wrong the night geoffrey epstein died goes wrong every night it's the same thing but so perfectly like that you think it could line up that way yes i saw it i saw it for example not supposed to have microwaves in the housing in it right and then people were like, ah, you know, you bitch long enough, they're going to, they're going to put in a microwave. So they put in a microwave. All right. There was a serial killer in my unit.

And he took a liking to me, inexplicably. So we called him truck because he was a long-distance truck driver and he would murder prostitutes all along his route. And he got caught. So, so he would be like, hey, John, he had these like rotten black little nubs for teeth. John, I saved you a seat in the TV room, watch the Steelers game. I'm like, thanks, truck. Or, hey, there's a new classic rock station. I know you like classic rock at 1,600 a.m.

Thank you, truck. Truck hated, hated, hated pedophiles. Hated them. Fully a third of the prison is pedophiles. Because remember, they're all at the low security level. Right. So there's like this rule in prison. No pedophiles are allowed in the TV room

and pedophiles aren't even allowed in their own room unless it's to sleep. Okay? So if you're a pedophile and it's the middle of the day, get the fuck out of the room. Well, there's a pedophile in his room and the guy's like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They won't stop talking.

Well, another thing is pedophiles aren't allowed to have any visitors in their rooms. You can't have another pedophile because they're going to talk about pedophilia, which is what they do. They relive their crimes every single day. They can't help themselves. So this pedophile is just yapping away and truck is getting angrier and angrier and angrier.

And finally the pedophile lays down for a nap. Truck had gone to the commissary and he bought a bottle of olive oil, which is $2.85. Because everybody cooks in their cells. Plastic or glass? Plastic. So he pours the olive oil into. a bowl and he microwaves it so it's boiling like literally it's bubbling boiling boiling scalding oil and he pours it on the pedophile's face while he's sleeping and the guy the scream i'll never forget

the scream and his skin is just like dropping off of his skull and pedophile got a pedophile the pedophile got you know medevac to pittsburg they landed a helicopter in the yard and medevac him to pittsburgh truck got another 10 years onto the 40 he was already doing for being a serial killer. It was only doing 40 as a serial killer. I know, right? He had a great lawyer. Yeah, he did.

But the point is that there are rules for everything and nobody pays any attention to them and nothing works the way it's supposed to. Then why does the Justice Department come out and say things like, oh, here's all the evidence, and then they show that they didn't put all the evidence out. And I'm just talking about like that. Well, then that proves my point.

Because people are idiots at every single level. It doesn't matter if you went to Harvard Law School. You can still be an idiot. Right. And another thing, too. This is a lesson that government officials, especially senior government officials, just cannot learn. And it is that the cover up of the crime is always worse than the crime.

Oh, yeah. Always. A lie. it begets 10 more lies, begets a hundred more lies. Yeah. And Richard Nixon didn't resign because of Watergate. Richard Nixon resigned because of the cover-up of Watergate. I think it's the same situation here. All right, well, let me flip it around on you. I have always thought, still do think that Jeffrey Epstein is dead. And I feel pretty comfortable with that. I spoke to his brother recently. I said, is he dead? And he's like, he's dead.

I identified the body. I'm just saying... I spoke to O.J. I didn't speak to him, but he said he didn't do it. You know what I mean? He identified the body. He said, I think he was murdered.

And that's a debate, you know, that he wanted to have with me. But he said, yeah, he's dead. I identified his body. I took it to the crematorium. Joseph Scott Morgan, a friend of mine, broke this down. He's a medical death investigator.

He broke it down, like, scientifically with all the bones, the hyroid bone and all that about what would not make sense about it being suicide and therefore it being murder. Obviously, Dr. Michael Bodden was like the goat with all this. He's the goat. Also does not think that he killed himself. So it's possible, it's at least possible that he was killed. It's possible, definitely.

Absolutely. Now, I do think he's dead. But again, this whole thing is just like, you almost have to open your mind to fucking everything. That's crazy. So I'll ask it like this. If you were Tass, not that you ever would be it's hypothetical people but if you were tasked with making the world believe

that Jeffrey Epstein was dead and getting him out of that prison without anyone knowing to wherever he's going to go to get fucking facial surgery and live out his life how would you do it oh you would take out the body whether it's a a body double or you know made out of silicone or whatever take it out in full view of everybody That's how I would do it. Let as many people as possible see this body so that reasonable people can agree to disagree. They did do that.

And there was a New York Post reporter very ready to go. And there was the conversation about the ear, which I've heard a thousand million times. Those ones I'm always a little skeptical of because they can doctor them. Of course. Well, it's like this stupid, obviously AI-generated pig. of him just like walking down the street in Tel Avivine. Oh, yeah, that one's not real.

But I'm saying like so the recipe you just gave me though is in line. It's not to say that's what happened. With what they did. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, because I had another guy in here, Kenneth Gibson, who's worked in media forever. And he's like, the idea that a New York post reporter on an early Saturday morning in fucking August was that ready to go immediately after this.

Yeah. Sketchy. And another thing, too, is if I wanted. if I wanted to initiate a cover-up of this scale, I would cremate whatever it is I took out on that gurney. Because otherwise, you'd be having people say, okay, let's just settle this. We're going to dig him up. We're going to get a court order. We're going to exhume the body.

We're going to do DNA testing and make sure that this is Jeffrey Epstein. Can't do that. Creamated. I don't know anymore, John. I really don't. I have to tell you, I was jaded. anyway because of my own personal experience. But now it's like, I don't believe anything anymore.

Not at face value anyway. Have you had your like any kind of moment where you think back to a bunch of stuff, different moments and visions of like things you did that you were certain were because of one thing in one way and one person and one mission that you're now like, wait a minute, why was that guy there too? I think about that kind of thing all the time. Yeah. I do.

And in some cases, it's taken years for me to finally conclude like, oh, crap, that's what that was about. I've thought about this Rockefeller thing a million times. Yeah. You know? I've told you the story. It was the one and only time I ever received a phone call from Colin Powell. I told you the story. You told the internet and the new voice as well.

Yeah, and in the new voice. Right. But I think about that a lot, too. Yeah. You know? And I remember when it first happened, I remember thinking, this wasn't your fault. Don't let it bother you. And it's bothered me for decades.

It's human lives. You're a real person. Yeah. Yeah. The story was that Colin Powell asked how to target someone in Iraq. John said what it was. I gave him his address. And then he found out eight of them got bombed later.

There was one time. Dozens of cruise missiles. you know, vaporize the building. Every time I watch that clip, I think of the fucking Mark Wahlberg line that departed. Yeah, it can send a fucking cruise missile up the ass of a camel from 1,000 yards away. A thousand miles away.

Not to get too far off the topic, but the assassination of Imane Zawahidi, the number two in Al Qaeda. You know, we shot him with a drone-launched missile, right? The missile had no warhead. on it, right? We did that on purpose because we didn't want to kill the women and children inside the apartment. He came out onto the balcony to smoke a cigarette, fired the missile at him. It went completely through his body. A missile went completely through his body. And with no

warhead, there was no explosion. Can you imagine cleaning up that mess? I appreciate the responsibility on that one. At least they didn't hit a wedding. Oh, we did. It was a little better than the Obama year. He hit every wedding during Obama. Yeah, yeah, that was interesting. But the thing I had wanted to bring it to when I was bringing up the early origins of Jeffrey Epstein with that Al Yomama deal is obviously the point there is that there is some sort of relationship with intelligence, intelligences at the time. And there is a tweet, I think I sent it to you, Dief. He has it up. So this is from Ronald Reagan about Iran-Contra.

Okay. In his new auto, and this is from back in the day, obviously, because he's dead. In the new autobiography, former president Ronald Reagan says Israel was the instigator and prime mover in the Iran-Contra affair. He blames the Israelis for misleading him into believing he was selling arms to so-called Iranian moderates when some, quote, may have had links to the Ayatollah Khomeini's government and were trying to obtain weapons under false pretenses, unquote. Israel began the arms deals with Iran when it contacted Robert McFarlane, Reagan's national security advisor, to propose the first sale and continued to press the secret dealings thereafter. Reagan writes in an American life that Prime Minister Shimon Perez was behind the proposal. The former president says, Iranian middlemen endorsed by Israel helped, quote, win the freedom of three hostages, unquote, Reagan adds, but the same middlemen behaved at times like bait and switch con men with the sole intention as a profiteering. So with Iran-Contra, they were. were trying to get weapons to the Sandinistas in South America, and they were trying to do it by financing a $150 million deal through Iran when we weren't supposed to be dealing with post-revolution Iran in the 80s. That's like the very high-level version of it. But it says down here too,

Patrick Ali says that that Epstein was roommates with Stanley Pottinger. He was in up to his neck in Iran-Contra, roommates, partners and roommates with Jay Stanley Pottinger who helped ship weapons to Iran prior to Iran contract. Can we read this, Steve? Good grief. So according to his former friend, the journalist Jesse Cornbluth, who's Epsteined up the ass. Yeah. And pause.

In the mid-1980s, Epstein said he worked for governments to recover money looted by African dictators and occasionally subcontracted to those same autocrats to help them hide their stolen money. A source who spoke with journalist Vicki Ward from Panetti Farah, the O'3, the OTH piece, said one of Epstein's clients was the late Saudi arms dealer, Hoshoggi, a middleman in the in the Iran-Contra scandal who helped smuggle cash for the Marcos family out of the Philippines. In 1988, Hachoggi was arrested in Switzerland. That's hard to do.

For concealing assets and later faced fraud and racketeering charges in the U.S. He was later acquitted. Must have a great attorney. That year, he sold his 200, he sold his 282-foot yacht to the Sultan of Brunei, who soon flipped it to Donald Trump. And let's go to the next one right here. Epstein was fired from Bear Stearns around the time he met Douglas Lees, who I was telling you about. Epstein then started a short-lived partnership with Jay Stanley Pottinger, a former U.S. Department of Justice official, who was investigated for his role in dealing arms to the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The Iran-Contraffir affair appears to be a pivotal moment in Epstein's life. Between 81 and 86, the Reagan administration, covertly sold arms to Iran, which was at war with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. So they were selling to the Iranians they didn't like because they liked Saddam Hussein even less. My question is, this didn't, wasn't clocking to me at first because I looked at this very quickly before we got on air. Why is Reagan saying that that benefited the Israelis when the Israelis really don't like the Iranian regime? Like that has always been their big bugaboo. But the Iranians back then didn't have a nuclear program. And it was Iraq that was the real, like, immense.

immediate threat to Israel because the Iraqis did have a nuclear program and a biological weapons program and a chemical weapons program. And they were working with a Belgian inventor named Gerald Bull to, the Iraqis were, to build something called the big gun. This is one of the very first things I learned about. My first week at the CIA, Gerald Bull created. this giant gun that was so big, you just had to sort of lean the barrel up against the side of a mountain, point it in essentially the right direction, and then fire it. And it would send a shell

as far as a missile would go. And nobody wanted to buy it. They're like, what are we going to do with this giant gun? Right? It's as big as a house. And so the Iraqi said, we'll take it. and so the Iraqis bought this thing and before it kept cracking when when Bull would would test it it kept cracking so he came up with this idea to put what he called a condom on the inside of the gun to smooth the barrel and to and to keep the reverberation from the shot from cracking it but before he could test it with the condom inside the Israelis is. assassinated him. They're pretty good at that.

Yeah, Gerald Bull and his giant gun. I remember saying to my boss, like I say, I was only on the job for a week. I said, this is a joke, right? And he said, no, no, this is deadly serious. It's a giant gun. They have to lean it up on the side of the mountain to fire it.

I'm picturing that thing in Game of Thrones they were trying to take the dragon out with. When they're just like, come on, baby, let's go. All right. So you would always maintain that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad access agent. Do you think I wanted to bring this up first so we at least had the context of what Ronald Reagan said about this? Probably his handler said about it because I don't think he was all there by the time he wrote that book. Yeah, not a chance.

So do you think that in something like that if in fact the Israelis had an initial, interest in seeing a rock be neutralized more. Do you think that this is the prime type of situation where he could have been recruited at that time? Absolutely. Yeah. Do you think that's what happened? You know, when you put all of these episodes together in a line, that would make sense to me. Yes. Next question. This is a deal where the CIA is running a lot of ops. as well, meaning they have to know he's involved with this. You know, that's a good question. He would have had to have bumped up against CIA ops people.

Right. Or even if not CIA ops people, NSC people who were in up to their necks in this thing. National Security Council? National Security Council. You know, the likes of, as I said, Admiral Poindexter, Richard Seacord, Oliver North, all these guys. So even if you're not dealing directly with agency people, although you probably would be, you're going to at least be dealing with White House people. Now, you had said earlier, you had never heard Jeffrey Epstein mention at CIA.

You did hear Hoshoggi mentioned, though, a bunch. All the time. Hoshoggi was also, like, extremely public for throughout a lot of his life. That's right. if seven people from the nSC and cia directly dealt or at least bumped into geoffrey epstein during said mission iran contra which was a cover up they were covering up something they were doing that's right is it reasonable to say that the compartmentalization structure of espionage bureaucracy in the united states government would mean that those people would chart this maybe have it in their

own files but not necessarily share it with yes and i can tell you exactly how that would play out. If I were one of the agency guys involved and I run into this American guy who's in the middle of it and he's not with us and he's not with the White House people, then who the hell is he with? So what I would have done is I first would have gone to the White House people and say, who's this American, this Epstein guy? And then I would have gone to the FBI and say, listen, just so you know, we're doing this highly compartmentalized top secret operation, you don't need to know what it's about, but you do need to know that there's a private citizen involved who's an American just so you can start a file on him, just in case this is going to be

a counterintelligence problem for us in the future. It doesn't look like that was ever done. I can't imagine why. That was going to be my next question. What would be something? He had to have had protection at the White House. He had to have. At that time. Way back then.

Sometime between 1981 and 1980, you know, four or five. All right, wait a second. That would make sense for a second. So if he has protection at the White House, maybe through a technical intermediary like Oliver North or something like that. Exactly. They're doing this under the table. It's a crime.

Right. So he's going to be, It's more like the mob. Like, I'm not saying nothing. I know who that guy is, but I can't tell people I know who that guy is because then they'll say, how do you know who that guy is? And now we've got a problem. That's right.

Okay. That's right. See, you know, I had never thought of that. That's interesting. But now that we're playing it out, yeah. That makes sense to me. This is why you're here. So I'd always, again, my mind is very open on all this.

I am not married to any of this stuff. What I had always thought, just very 30,000 foot view in the air. And some people have misheard me on recent episodes on how I explain this, so I need to do a better job. I'd always looked at it like, okay, he's working with Mossad or, and you have to say this, or with other intelligence organizations in Israel, because they're not the only one. That's right. Like Jonathan Pollard wasn't with Mossad, it was with the military. That's right.

It was military. Same shit, but different name. That's right. But Mossad's an easy way to put it. You know, we have what, 18 different intelligence agencies. Right. You would think one or two might be enough. You think.

But I always thought he worked with them. And then the thing that really shifted things for Jeffrey Epstein in his timeline was the, I believe, September 2002 flight with Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker, which made page six. Prior to then, Jeffrey Epstein was known as a New York City socialite and not known publicly. He was known on the socialite circles, which, by the way, when someone's known as a socialite, in New York, red flag should be flying. But he's, in this case, a good spy. He's doing all his sick shit. He's going to the White House 18 times.

No one knows who the fuck the guy is and everything. And then all of a sudden, boom, flight happens, page six story. Then he has to do the interview with Vicki Ward in March 2003. He's out there. No coincidence in some ways that his case starts coming up in 05 in Florida. because he's a known guy in some respects. And so my thought always was, and if I were a betting man, I would have said it was probably late 90s when Clinton was still in office.

My bet always was that CIA was asleep at the wheel, maybe because of the compartmentalization we just talked about. And, you know, then they probably find out maybe it's 1996. I'll put a year on it, 97. They find out so far this guy's been to the Clinton White House 15 times maybe. They're like, who the fuck? Yeah, who's this guy and the British lady who's dad ran the daily mirror and he started all the fucking peer reviews and runs all our kids' textbooks in America and got buried on the Mount of Olives and fucking Israel five days after he got pushed off a boat?

Why is this motherfucker coming in with the guy who's taking blow jobs from the fucking intern? You know, imagine the stories that you could piece together if you had unfettered access just to the visitor logs. Just to that. Uh-huh. Right. So someone, Linda at Langley, goes, wait a minute, we got a problem.

Takes it up the chain of command. Suddenly says, boss, I don't know who the fuck this guy is. They then take 10 minutes to look into it. And they're like, oh, my God, he's running a fucking pedal ring at the behest of the Victoria's Secret guy in fucking New York City. and holy shit he's involved with Iran contrary he's fucking working with Massad he seems to be an intelligence dealer the fucking wife who's not really the wife's a problem she's connected up the ass to all this shit oh my god they got dirt on everyone including the current president this is a

crisis the likes of which if we outed this everything could fall sounds very familiar today by away. Yes, it does. So they say in that moment, no, I, you know, I proposed a New Jersey solution. I'm like, just fucking blow his brains out. Right. You know, say to myself, what are you going to do about it? I know a lot of guys that would do that. Right. Okay, good. I don't know where they were at this time. Right. You know, we could have called up fucking Vinnie and Rocco. They didn't take care of it. Exactly what I was thinking. That's right. But they didn't do that. And this is what I just always posited. And it's a theory. I can't say like, yo I got evidence this happened but I'm like

they looked at it and they said oh shit and they go to the guy and they go all right you know that we know that you know that we know that we know what you're doing here and you know that we know that we know that you fucking have been doing this a long time and you could take down the whole system if we tell people about that and so you know that we know that you know that we know

that now we're in a Mexican standoff and so here's the deal you're gonna have to keep doing whatever it is the fuck you do but now you pay attack You're on our soil. You're going to give us some information too. And so now, John, what did he foia? He foiaed the years 2000 to 2014.

Pretty interesting to me. I'll say. Am I crazy or am I crazy? No. It's a great catch. And it also would tend to implicate both the Bush and the Clinton administrations. That's right. Sorry, Bush and Obama.

Wait, now you look. Oh, from the years he foyer. Okay, I thought you're talking about the backtrack of what they didn't catch. Now, the backtrack, now you've convinced me that this started even earlier than I thought. Right. I was thinking Clinton, and it's not. It's earlier. It's earlier.

There were some files missing, two. Yep. Not just the two and a half or three million. I mean, they're in there, but did you see the chart of the years that they're really? missing from? Can we pull up that tweet, thief? Just so people can see this. I have to rethink everything. I have to rethink things that in the past I would have said were I feel okay about this take and now I have to look at it and say, Julian, that was a ice cold, scalding ice cold, if you will take. And this is just one of these things. Like it is what it is. When I'm wrong,

I'm wrong. This is a data dump. I'm going to simplify this for you, John, because there's some more specific details here, but it is showing basically like, if you will, a percentage of data sets from the Epstein files that are presented over the years. And we can see that there is a massive gap and basically like you in the chart, if you will, between the years of 1999 to 2001, when, among other things, you had the tech bubble blow up. You had, I believe that's not 99 is when the Lewinsky impeachment trial's happening. You have the election of 2000, the highly contested election of 2000, John Kiriaku, where I don't know. Someone Google this for me, but I think there was a big point of contention in Palm Beach County as it pertains to that election.

And that's where one Jeffrey Epstein did happen to reside. Just looking at some things here. Yep. And then in 2001, you have the worst terrorist. attack in United States history in New York and D.C. in the skies that fell over Pennsylvania with United 93. And suddenly all these files are missing. But John, we did get an email from 2003 to slip through the cracks.

Really? Oh, you haven't seen this one? No, I haven't seen it. So there's an email thief. Boom. He's got it. He's all over it. So it's from 2003, someone named Ed Epstein.

sends an email to one GMAX, GELEN Maxwell, saying any interest in being on the shadow commission on 9-11, the membership list is secret. She responds, thanks for the invite. Unfortunately, I cannot be on the shadow commission. A shadow commission. It takes my breath away. Oh, my God. This should be the banner headline. What do you make of that? I don't even know what to say. I mean, nobody believes what the 9-11 commission concluded anyway. That's right. But the fact that there was a shadow commission with a secret membership list and Galeen Maxwell talked about it in 2003. Why?

That's what I want to know. Good question. And it's like this goes back to a compartmentalization thing too, John, because what we do have on the record that we know happened. is somewhere, I think it was like July 6th, 2001, maybe like August 11th. The dates might be slightly off. There are two meetings that occur at the White House, one of them with Condoleezza Rice, where CIA sent literally tenant, Cofor Black and some dudes who were still like Rich Blee, who's still, I think, undercover.

I think that's a fake name, if I remember correctly, where they tell them an attack's coming. So like when you look at the whole like, well, CIA definitely did this. CIA had a lot of incompetence because they didn't share information with FBI and there's a lot of issues there and they deserve a ton of blame. But that was the one thing in this that was always like the canary in the coal mine for me where I'm like, well, it couldn't have been like they had the leadership warning about it. So yeah, they did. You know, maybe it's the White House. I don't know. But there's also advanced knowledge that we know about from the Saudis who have always been covered up and we know about with the five guys from Assad in fucking Fort Lee

who were videotaping the thing who were sent back to Israel on November 6, 2001. That's exactly right. And I know a guy from the office that arrested them. And to this day, he wonders why the fuck they didn't get why the fuck. So when I see stuff like this, I'm like, how many countries are involved in this thing? God, this is bad. And is it even countries versus is it this trilateral elite just in general? Like everyone wants to just immediately say, it's Israel, it's Saudi Arabia, it's the CIA.

How about all the above who are working for all the above? Possible? Possible, yes. Yes. Incredible. Sickening, I think is how what I first said when we sat down and started talking. This just makes me sick. I don't even know what to do with them.

GMAX. GMAX. Redacted. She must have BCCed him. Jeffrey. Why would it be in the Epstein files? Why would it be on his computer? I don't know.

She BCCed him. The membership list is secret. She's not even... Was she an American at the time? I don't... Did she ever become an American officially? I don't know. I wonder.

Like we talk about this small group. You know, you got the Commerce Secretary and Transition Chair who just... Yes, the L. Okay. L.A. Maxwell is a naturalized American citizen. Born in France to British and French parents and raised in England, she moved to the United States in 91 following her father's death. She holds triple citizenship being a citizen of the U.S., UK, and France.

Yeah. Makes sense. Can say that again. Yeah. So. But not Israel. Not Israel. Yeah.

Man. You have a guy like Lutnik who runs the transition team as the Commerce Secretary, always in Trump's here advising him shares a wall with Jeffrey Epstein for technically 21 years but he claims it was 14 because he didn't move into low five who knows if even that's true openly lies on camera just with this dramatic story about the first and last time I ever spent time with that man and then he said so I never dealt with him in business socially or even for philanthropy and what he was really doing was remembering all the things he did deal with them on because now we saw it on the emails of what it was but the guy has as of the time of

this recording on friday afternoon he has not resigned yet still doing his job and also we find out his sister was one of the founding members of the terramar project which was like he lens post geoffrey conviction post jeffrey's never going to fucking marry me project that she did pet project that has something to do with the oceans that she did a fucking ted talk on oh my god what did he's like what did he people just all like fuck each other? They must. They must. I'm glad I don't know people like this. You don't? I don't. No. No. I would feel dirty all the time. Well, there's a guy in the middle for, well, actually, John, we can't forget this. Do you see what Hillary Clinton said the other day? Oh, no, would she say? She said that they have, can we play the video deep? I did it in my solo episode. It's

out two days before this, but it's worth repeating. Because again, we got the picture of Gieland in the row looking at Chelsea coming down the aisle at her wedding. We know about the 25 to 27 flights on the Lolita Express. Yep. We got images of Clinton all with Epstein. Obviously, the Clintons are their whole fucking thing as well on the side that doesn't even have to do with Epstein.

We know about the 18 known visits that happened to the White House. And yet, let's run it. If Hillary Clinton says this, when. asked about the links between the Clintons and the Epstein's and Epstein. Do you regret the links that there have been? You know, we have no links. We have a very clear record that we've been willing to talk about, which my husband has said he took some rides on the airplane for his charitable work.

For charitable work. I don't recall ever meeting him. Did you have a good at a Macsler? I did on a few occasions. And thousands of people go to the Clinton Clinton. local initiative. So it to me is not something that is really at the heart of what this matter is about. They are accused and in both cases were convicted of horrific crimes against girls and women. That should be the focus. And we are more than happy to say what we know, which is

very limited and totally unrelated to their behavior or the their crimes, and we want to do it in public, because let's make this transparent. The survivors deserve that, the public deserves that, but... They just lie with straight faces. Straight faces. How does a guy like Jeffrey Epstein gets so involved with Bill Clinton clearly before he got into office? Yeah, that's a good question.

Could he have spotted Bill Clinton that early on in the process? just another governor I was a governor who was letting Barry Seal fly Coke planes in the Mina with no questions asked Yes Although I always believed He was told

Hey We're going to do this and you're going to say it's okay And he did What makes you think that Because that would have been a federal operation I mean we all knew Everybody knows now that the CIA Was

Was allowing cocaine into the country making its way to Los Angeles. So it would have been federal. It's not up to a governor to say, no, no, you can't, you can't do this. It's like, shut the fuck up. We're doing it. We're going to do it and you'll become president.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You'll listen to what we say. Exactly. It's just always funny when Hillary, not funny, but it's kind of sick when Hillary talks about like women and victims and stuff like that.

And then you think about the things that both of them are actually accused of. It's like, come on. That's what I mean, the political opportunism of this, that I'll call out all day. It's like nobody gets a win here. No, there are no good guys in this whole thing. And then, you know, it just makes me feel that much worse

that Virginia Jouffray took her life. I can't even fathom the pressure that she was under. You know, and she kind of cracked in slow motion. Remember weeks in advance of her death, she said she had been like hit by a school bus or something and i don't remember the whole the whole story but she kind of cracked up right in front of our eyes yeah it's it's suspicious and apparently also it does have to be said her husband did beat her yeah as well yep yeah she had confided that in tarry pellemary who's a journalist that she worked with and so once her family released photos of her

from towards the end of her life that included like standing photos of her with bruises all over her Tara said that she did she had promised obviously not to say anything but she's like now that Virginia is deceased and her family has released these photos I do feel like I should also reveal that her husband beat her all the time doesn't mean she didn't

does not something fishy there sure you know she she yeah this is bad she went after a lot of people and I just you know it's like these people they see all these things 20 30 40 years ahead at their cute little fucking Bilderberg meetings but they couldn't see the internet coming yeah right yeah that's right it's kind of weird right yeah there's a guy that's been at the middle of all this Steve Bannon who I mentioned Henry Abbott earlier shout out to Henry for turning me on to this back in

2021 2021 and it all turned out to be true it was was all true. Steve Bannon goes way back with Leon Black and all those guys. You can trace it back to the 80s and you can trace back the earliest investments in things that became Cambridge Analytica in 1992. So they were already thinking about how to influence people through fear all the way back then, but they weren't thinking about the very tools they were building being used against them to have the public be able to discuss things in the open, including the bullshit they do behind closed doors. Imagine. That doesn't make sense to me, though.

Like, what am I missing there? You know, one of my favorite movies is a 1970s sci-fi film called Soylent Green. You mentioned it last time, yep. I did. And Soilent Green takes place in the future. It was filmed in like 1972 or something. And I think it takes place in 2015. and cars, you know, float on the air and the world is overpopulated and people can't afford food.

And it gives you a pretty good depiction of a world that's on the brink of just falling apart. The only thing that they just got completely and totally wrong was every time Charlton Heston, the main character, who's a policeman, every time he needed to make a call, He'd pull over the side of road, go into a phone booth and make the call. I guess there are just some things people don't see. That's a good way to put it. You know, I remember being, I was in a station in the Middle East. I was there on temporary duty for a week, week and a half. And there was a tech team in from headquarters.

And they were installing the first ever email program. And so everybody in the station was gathered around this computer. And they're showing us that you click on. this little button that had an envelope on it and then you write in somebody's name and hit refresh and their actual name pops up and then you can just write them a like a letter it's called electronic mail email and the station chief says wait a minute wait a minute are you saying that my people can have access to anybody they want they just write this electronic mail and hit send and the guy said yes and the chief said i don't like it i don't like it one bit and then he sort of

made this edict that there would be none of this e-mail in his station sometimes you just don't see it you just can't your brain can't comprehend it and maybe that's what we're looking at here with with our 2020 hindsight i don't understand though in the two 2010's once it was a real thing. Yeah. Like, why didn't they adapt? Yeah.

Because it's like, yes, obviously these people were talking in a way that they didn't think the DOJ would ever released their emails to the public, right? But you have people in 2021, 2021, 2022, 23, keeping their jobs and saying, no, I regret my relationship, but I didn't really know them. And now it comes out that they did. And yet, maybe I'm thinking of this too simply, and I'm the farthest thing from a lawyer, but discovery exists. Yes, it does.

dude civilly and stuff. You get access to everything. And that can get leaked. So why? It often does. Right? So these people being so arrogant to be like, no one will ever know that I had 11,500 emails with the dude.

So I'll keep my job at Goldman Sachs. It's just incredible. Yeah. It's crazy. What goes through somebody's mind? Like she knew how many emails. I mean, she at least in her mind had a ballpark figure. Kathy Rumler.

Kathy Rumler. How many emails she exchanged with Jeffrey Epstein? And did she think that by not telling the C-suite at Goldman Sachs that it just wasn't going to be a problem? That this was never going to come to light? I mean, the guy died in 2019. It's 2026. And it never occurred to her. You know, maybe I should try to get ahead of this.

This is going to be a problem. or was she that arrogant to think that she could just weather this? And, you know, if you're the CEO of, if you're the CEO of Goldman Sachs, you have to be saying, fucking Rumler. What was she thinking? Yeah, I mean, he should have done that though three years ago. Yeah, he should have.

She should just cut ties with these people. Mm-hmm. You know? Like when they're in that kind of position, It gets weird when he's like friends with or associating with guys in academia and stuff like that because you're like, well, you know, funders come in and fund stuff. And now we see a lot of that was a lot closer than that. Oh, yeah. To be clear.

But like when you're a lawyer at the Obama Justice Department, like the lawyer or in the Obama White House and you have that kind of access and you were dealing with this guy a ton who you know. is a spy now, you have to know you're going to be fried in this. There's just no way to look at it. And if you've got the kind of money that the general counsel at Goldman Sachs would have, then you hire a reputation recovery firm, right? And they're out there, reputation.com for, you know, average people like you and me. Or Peggy Siegel. Or Peggy Siegel.

and get ahead of this. And I don't think anybody thought to do that. They did not. And it's very clear that Jeffrey maintained all of his power, or I should say almost all of his powerful contexts, including new ones post-conviction. You know, that's the oddest thing to me. Was that conviction?

This is a child sex crime conviction. as entry level as it was for him because of the sweetheart deal, you think that that would send people screaming from the room. And it didn't. It didn't set him back at all. He just jumped right in, right back in. No problem. What do you think the angle with Bannon was looking at this?

Because Bannon leaves the White House with Trump after he's fired. and then from all the texts we can see which are cringe the emails we can see he is essentially becoming that PR guy yeah he is for Jeffrey Epstein he even has an email in there where he's like you have a fucking jihad against you the likes of which i've never seen and i've seen a lot of shit and then you know they're following up emails on here where he's sending Jeffrey articles and saying well this makes you sound like you're contrite and you know talking about all this stuff and then he films him on camera for what was reported to be up to 18 hours worth of footage. We have like two to four hours of it or something through the files. You know, this is a guy, Bannon, who like I said,

goes way back to the 80s with all these people. Is he, is he a spy? Like, I've always believed that. Do you think that's plausible? Possible? Sure. Likely, I can't imagine. Why? Because At the position that he was, counselor to the president, he would have been vetted, should have been vetted nine ways from Sunday. He should have been. The FBI should have been all over this.

Of course, you know, my position on the FBI, so. But Howard, you say that, Howard Ludnick's the Commerce advisor, Leon Black's son works in the fucking administration. Like, these are vetting 101. Yeah, you're right. You're right. sure it's plausible i'm trying to think what the hook would be what what the what the

what the vulnerability would be to recruit him because bannon's almost a billionaire right he owns the rights to signfeld and a whole bunch of other things he's worth the last i saw several years ago he was worth 750 million dollars so you're not going to recruit him with money unless he was recruited before he got it unless okay that's a good point He always ends up in places. That's the thing. He's always in the right place. He's long been in the right place at the right time.

There was one phone call I was on with a guy who was talking my ear off back in 2022. Another one of those like shiver up the spines. Because this was after I'd read the Abbott piece. I was on to this with Steve Bannon. And this dude was listening off a whole bunch of things. And he starts talking about this guy, Brock, Mighty Ducks Brock guy. Can we Google that? Brock, uh, Brock Pierce.

Brock Pierce. You know about Brock Pierce? No. Brock Pierce is worth a fuck ton of money. Made it. He was in that Mighty Ducks actor. Ends up, I'm going to really shorten this up for people, but he ends up in a partnership business-wise with this guy who ends up having these parties out in Hollywood where they,

the guy is, is, raising boys, underage boys. My God. And that ends up coming out. they all flee to Spain. That guy ends up getting arrested. He stands, I think he stands trial or makes a deal or something. And then eventually gets permission to leave the country for some sort of surgery and never comes back and gets a new name. But Brock, can you pull up as Wikipedia, Defe? Because now it's in there. And this is starting to like break open. I've been telling people to pull on this. But go down, Defe. Brock ends up up a little more.

more more more right and then to do do up a little more yeah yeah okay so brock ends up founding in 2001 now i'm going right off wikipedia people he founded internet gaming entertainment a company of the pioneer the m m o r pg currency selling services industry between o four and o five IG spent more than $25 million buying out seven smaller competitors, including four auction platforms and many fan and content sites. In 2005, Pierce estimated the IGE accounted for about 50% of this online market in the U.S., which has about $500 million in annual volume. Pierce brought in Steve Bannon, formerly of Goldman Sachs and Breitbart News, to seek venture capital,

and a deal was made in February 2006, yielding $60 million, of which, Pierce took away $20 million for a minority stake. The next year the company faced a class action lawsuit with no assets. The company failed and Pierce was conveniently forced out. Now go down to the Epstein section. In February 2026, an investigation by the Kiev Independent and newly released U.S. Department of Justice documents on Jeffrey Epstein reported that the files included in an email in which a man identified as Pierce described as a co-founder of Tether,

told Epstein that a boat in Antigua full of amazing, ukraine's finest was waiting for him a separate analysis of the same document released by the crypto news outlet proto stated that in two thousand twelve after ftein asked pierce to take photos and find me a present during a trip to moscow kee and odessa which is where they would source a lot of underage women in traffic them by the way pierce emailed epstein's dozens of photographs of the ukrainian woman

named anastasia and closed the message by writing that ukraine is now my favorite country and in another email he invited epstein to join him on a boat in Antigua, once again, full of Ukraine's finest. This is stuff that is now new online that I was told in 2002 directly about this. And just conveniently, this guy, before he even blows up, he was a mighty ducks actor, before he blows up as a businessman and before, like this person I was on the phone with also told me about his Jeffrey Epstein connections as well. Before that, he just happens to bring in Steve Bannon to this video game community that also, and this is where it gets above my pay grade, but it has, and Deep, pull that mic around because I want you to

say what you're going to say. But it has to do with moving money online that's like through video game coins that can be laundered into other stuff. Maybe people out there can help me. But Deep, go ahead. I was going to say, because it was a big thing that China had first gotten involved with with the video game runescape. They'd sell in-game currency for real money. But this is weird, and I'm only going to bring this point up for you to pull on if you want, this whole conspiracy that they keep seeing all this activity from Epstein's account on Fortnite in all these video games

just think that's a weird little connection now to know that Bannon was involved with that just saying, I don't know. Yeah, that's crazy. It's weird. I don't know, man. And he's still very much an insider in Washington. He's got his podcast, he's got a house on Capitol Hill.

He's very much. The war room. Yep. Yeah. What do we do? Do you just blow it all up? You know, we're going to have to, we're going to have to, like, even if it means taken to the streets, demand the release of all the remaining documents. We have to.

They have to be released. First of all, the law mandates that they be released. It's not up to Pambani or anybody else. They have to be released. That's the law. And then we need to rely on people like you to go through. through these things and make sense of them. How about all the code words they're using?

Yeah, see, that's another thing. See, and this is, we're weakened by the fact that we can't charge people with crimes. You know, imagine how easy, how much easier it would be to say, look, you're involved in this, we've got a conspiracy charge hanging over you. You're going to do at least five years. Or you can tell us what all these code words mean and walk us through this one step at a and then we'll figure out, you know, something a little easier. But DOJ can't do that.

There's one that's used in there that Defe and I were looking at this morning and, you know, your brain runs in a lot of different directions where it says jerky. And there was a guy who did a nice breakdown of this. Deaf, let me give you this dude. I actually have it right here. So I want to give him a shout out. This is Dr. G. explains on YouTube. And what I liked is he didn't he even when it was obvious where it's like, all right, we can definitely make some sort of like this type of conclusion there.

He didn't. He just reported the fucking emails. But the way they refer to we need more jerky. We need to put it in the fridge. We need this number of pounds of it. We have to cook it. This email right here is that deep pulled up says, how is your jerky situation? Should I bring any more?

And there's another email to Jeff. Epstein from unknown. Francis has time to come tomorrow to show me how to make it. Jerky class, anyone. He will also bring you a taste of his new jerky recipe from the restaurant and sends a warm hello. He is working at a restaurant called Cannibal and Cooks. Is this real? This is from J-Mail. Wait for it. Beef, jerky and steak. He has time at 3 p.m. tomorrow if this is okay with you. And they refer to like, didn't they refer to story? in it like chemically in free yeah that's why i mean see this is why we need the rest of these documents the whole thing is a four chan yeah a dream yeah i will freely admit it you're right

yeah they did what do you sent me some there's also an epstein connection to the creator of four quote moot and how no you're good and how he and Bannon helped to create our slash politics which basically created the alt-right pipeline that helped Trump win the election it just goes deeper and deeper and deeper okay can you pull up the Peter Thiel Brexit email exchange with with with Epstein 2016 June 2016 it's probably not in I have this one about the new about it. Yes.

Okay. So Epstein, you know what's crazy, bro? I remember. Oh, God, that's so weird. I remember where it was when this happened to. This wasn't that far away. Okay. So Brexit, he sends to Peter Thiel.

Brexit, just the beginning. Peter Thiel responds of what? And Epstein goes, return to tribalism, counter to globalization, amazing new alliance. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. And as I said in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding the next bargain. This is where the whole bankers profit tearing off of war. And obviously Peter Thiel is not a banker. Jeffrey worked in

finance for bankers and stuff. But like they're from the banker class, if you will. This is where I look at that and go, well, here you go. I never seen you so speechless this much. I feel bad that I'm so shocked that I can't contribute very much. It's so overwhelming. It's so sickening. I didn't realize it was this deep. Incredible. And you know, Jeffrey Epstein aside and Galeem Maxwell, of course, these are the people that are still running the country. Yes. They're running the economy. Notice the vice president hasn't said anything. Not a word. Recently. Not a single word. That's his chief funder right there. Yes, it is. He also had a... He created it even. Yes, but actually before that, are you aware that J.D. Vance had a fundraiser dinner at Les Wexner's house in 2017?

That, I was not aware, but that actually doesn't surprise me. It doesn't. No, because Les Wexner was the guy in Columbus, Ohio. And if you're a Republican in Ohio, you need to kiss the ring. Yeah. I did not know it, though. If remove our own guilt in this for a second, because we definitely have some, I do believe, and Again, I'm very open to changing my opinion on things, but I do believe in this situation,

CIA and U.S. intelligence has blood on its hands with all this. I just don't see a scenario where they don't. But you also have other governments that do as well. Yes. And it's multiple. It's an ally like the U.K. It's an ally like Israel, where we know Jeffrey had significant contacts, including Ahudu, Barack. It also came out in the emails that the U.S., the Israeli UN security team came over to install all of his security at his place.

Oh, you didn't see it. Can we pull up this email, Dave? Are you kidding me? John's having a fucking place as a conscience right now. I'm sorry. There's been a lot of me talking the last half hour while John's just like questioning everything. All right, so this is from Mario Nafal,

Israeli government installed. Oh, I just talked to Mario two days ago. Yeah, there you go. Why is the chances? Israeli government installed security systems. Epstein's Manhattan building where he housed underage models, starting 2016, Israeli mission to the UN coordinated with Epstein's staff to install alarm, sensors and surveillance equipment.

Rafi Shlomo, you know, I said this earlier, very Russian name. Head of security for former Israeli PM Ahud Barak personally controlled access to the apartment, did background checks on cleaners, remotely disabled alarms when people needed to enter, and Epstein personally improved it all. the emails are right there i read these in the solo episode the other day but this this tweets up on the screen just if you wouldn't mind d'if just pulling up the email so people can see it but this is the back and forth and then the other one i think also this is where they're going through the details but then this is where it's laid out with the hood's name in there and everything i believe

neelie a hood was on the other email his wife i assume but they're going through the whole things of what they're going to be wiring and it seems like they have a pretty chummy relationship. It sure seems that way. And Jeffrey doesn't mind holes in the walls. Of course, we learned that in spades at the Island House. Did you see Netanyahu's response

to the Ahudu Barak stuff? I'd love to hear it. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said this actually proves that we are not guilty because Ahud Barak has attempted to overthrow the entire Israeli order as a political opponent for many years

and operated. I don't know if he said in like the George Soros crowd or something like that but he was like insinuating like you know anti-Israel and we're talking about a dude of Hu Barak who does have opposite politics in many cases yeah to Netanyahu except in the case of you know trying to grow Israel which yeah that's that's what they're trying to do how they do that is certainly the question but you know to say that about a dude who is like within Israel a legendary special forces guy yeah who got it we have that this fucking New York City shot from the movie Munich right there where he gets a shout out in the

fucking movie while they're doing so while Masada's doing some of the shit right and then he becomes prime minister eventually defense minister and everything but being with Epstein is a way to show that you're innocent that seems a little no he's flailing around right is it an unsurvivable because of the public's reaction if that information were flat out out-confirmed by both governments is an unsurvivable act for an allyship between the two nations. Oh, no. It's not? No, no.

This is going to be a little blip, a temporary blip. Oh, listen. The Israelis, the pro-Israel lobby, mostly in the form of APAC, is so entrenched in American politics, American society, American culture. that the relationship isn't changing at all. It's only because of the likes of Tucker Carlson. People with large followings out there speaking truth and talking about what America first really means that might make a difference.

People are going to say, oh, well, that Ehud Barak, well, first of all, he's a has been. Secondly, you know, that was a long time ago. It's almost 10 years ago. and it's not Netanyahu Netanyahu's the one in charge now that's going to be the reaction but the public is so aware

of some of these things though now because of many people on the left and right it's a very bipartisan thing very much so yes and so you think even in this kind of year it would be a blip if we found out that had some sort of confirmation that the most prolific known public pedophile

spy dude arms dealer or a trilateral commission person, Coney Island resident, you know, was running a Mossad honeypot operation with all the above and money laundering. You know, they didn't care for more than a few weeks when Jonathan Pollard was caught red-handed and they were managing the operation

from the Israeli Defense Minister's office. Rafi Aitan was overseeing it, I believe. Yeah, right. It didn't matter. and the Israelis hemmed and hawed and then kind of quietly apologized and everything just kind of roared right back and i think that's what we're going to see again so here's the other thing a lot of people say online and i and i understand why they say it but i have you in the studio right now as someone who used to be in the intelligence community who can speak to this but people will often say CIA equals masad

massad just simply not true okay that that's a statement made out of ignorance yeah now why do you say out. Because I agree with you from what you've told me, but I'd love for you to explain it to everybody. Because the Mossad actively spies on the United States, actively. Yes, we have a close operational relationship with Mossad. But to say we're two peas in a pod like that, absolutely not true. We are with the Brits, the Canadians, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the Five Ice countries. We have very close relations with several other, you know, NATO countries. But the Israelis? Listen, at the CIA, Israel was ranked as critical threat for counterintelligence, along with Russia, China, Cuba, and North Korea. Yeah, the Israelis are not our friends. They

actively recruit Americans to spy on Israel's behalf, to betray the United States. Now, the people who make those arguments, though, one place where I could see from their lens is when you look at the top of the chain would say directors of these agencies who are political appointees. You have a guy like Mike Pompeo who ran CIA who could not possibly be more pro-Israel, right? Not possible to be more pro-Israel than Mike Pompeo. So is it possible that there are some pockets where there is some overlap? But for the most part, as you're saying, the rank and file and people who work at the agencies, they don't really. like each other. Sure. Yeah, it's

possible to say that. And you know, presidents come and go, administrations change. The relationship is is, you know, fraternal. Right. At the working level, it's not so nice.

Mm-hmm. The last thing today, John, this has been good, but I know that some of this is like... I'm intellectually exhausted now. I'm very upset by all this. I can see. So I don't want to. It's like what happened to our country?

I don't want to. You know? But I do have to get to the one thing that we left off from the beginning, which is what you heard about the whole Iran thing. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to let you go with whatever you're allowed to say. So I have a friend, a former CIA officer who was at the White House this morning talking to his friends. And he says that a decision has been made to attack Iran. on Monday or Tuesday.

The president yesterday gave the Iranians 10 days to, to, you know, accept our proposals for an end to their ballistic missile program, an end to their uranium enrichment program, an end to supporting groups in the Middle East like Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis. But he's done this before. Well, he'll give you 10 days. He'll give you two weeks. he'll just attack two days into it. He thinks that that keeps people off balance. The USS Abraham

Lincoln has been in the Arabian Sea for weeks. We've got about two dozen support ships in the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Sea, the Red Sea, and the Eastern Mediterranean. We've got the USS Gerald Ford, which is in Gibraltar right now. It's passing through the Straits of Gibraltar like today on its way to the eastern Mediterranean and probably through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea. So we're going to have enough assets to attack Iran in the next couple of days.

And so he said that there are battle lines that the anti-war forces are J.D. Vance and Tulsi Gabbard. He said that the pro... That's it. That's it. He said the pro-war people are led by Marco Rupert. and include Pete Hegseth and now the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

And I stopped him on that point this morning. And I said, wait a minute. I said, during the Iraq War, at the start of the Iraq War, the most stridently anti-war component was the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They were always the last ones that wanted to attack because they know what war is. And he said, ah, but you forget, Trump has replaced all of the Joint Chiefs this year, this past in the past 12 months, which I had forgotten. Any of these four-star generals who, you know, had worked their way up through the ranks,

but had served under Biden, he fired all of them, all of them. And he promoted people that he knew would be politically loyal. So I, you know, Julian, I've always been one of these glass half-full guys. I'm, I'm, me too. I've always been optimistic about things. And I've been saying a lot in my own podcasts, in written pieces. You know, we went through round one with the Omani's in Muscat. We went through round two with Swiss in Geneva.

Both sides came out and said these were both productive meetings. We're going to go to round three. Everything's looking good. The Omani's are asking us to just relax and let them do what they're good at. The Omani's are really, really good at diplomacy. Really good. They're very, very good friends. And they're honest.

So the Iranians trust them as well. And I think that none of that really matters right now. I think a decision's been made. Do you think this is to distract from the current scandal? Probably in part, yeah. How about them saying they're going to release the UFO files last night? Which I've wanted release forever. I know, right?

I mean, we've been talking about this for years. The timing. Yeah. Yes. Yep Same movie Over and over again Different actors

Just remakes And you remember You're probably a little bit Too young But in the 90s The movie Wag the Dog Was like You know

People had their hair on fire Oh my God Look this movie's about The President Made a war To distract from his affair It's like yeah How quaint

That is now So quaint That seems to be All that happens And people have short memories Mm-hmm Well I hope that I will take that clip and put that out tomorrow Saturday so that we can

maybe get some attention on that to see if somehow that little ripple ends up making its way to change some decisions because one of the promises of Trump's campaign was no more endless wars. Right. Going into Iran is entirely different than going into Venezuela. 92 million people. It's a gigantic country. It's bigger than Texas.

And it has 92 million people. And I think that at the White House, they have just, they have just bitten right into this Israeli propaganda. The same kind of propaganda we got in 2003 that as soon as we cross that border, they're going to throw flowers at us. And they're going to greet us as liberators. And we're all going to live happily ever after. And everybody's going to get rich on the new oil deals. And that's just not going to happen. It never happens.

Crazy world, John. It is, man. Well, I'm sorry to blow your mind a few times today. I'm not often stunned into speechless. You also blew my mind as regular, though. And that happens every single time. Oh, thank you. Your life experiences are insane.

And I'm really, you know, jokes aside with the memes, I'm so happy to see you getting the attention you deserve and have to deserve for a long time for people that, or just learning about John online, your story had a long, very unfair down swing to it. It's been an odyssey, that's for sure. Getting back 180's great. We all get a good laugh out of these memes, but this was deadly serious. Oh, yeah.

No doubt about it. But I'm really happy to see it and we'll continue supporting it here. Good to see again. It's great. Always is. Always, sir. Thank you. All right.

Take care. Everybody else, you know what it is? Give it a thought. Get back to me. Hopefully we're not at war with fucking Iran. Peace. Thank you as always for watching this video, guys. If you have not already subscribed, please hit that subscribe button as well as that like button before you leave.

See you for the next episode.