Julian Dorey Podcast - #428 - “UFO Lies!” - Military Paranormal Expert on Aliens, Psychics & Secrets | Sean Hazlett

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) SHOPIFY: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at shopify.com/julian 2) ULTRA POUCHES: Don’t sleep on @UltraPouches New customers get 15% Off with code JULIAN at https://takeultra.com ! JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CLIPPERS DISCORD: https://discord.gg/8QmWEKJ3BT (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Sean Patrick Hazlett is an American science fiction, fantasy, and horror author, editor, futurist, and finance executive. He is widely recognized for editing speculative military fiction anthologies, winning the prestigious Writers of the Future Contest in 2017, and hosting the paranormal and geopolitics podcast @ThroughAGlassDarklyWithSean FOLLOW SEAN: YT: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThroughAGlassDarklyWithSean X: https://x.com/seanphazlett WEBSITE: https://seanpatrickhazlett.com/ FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY YT: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://x.com/juliandorey ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Remote Viewing, Stargate & Alien Abductions 10:21 - Perception, Telepathy, Bilocation & Magic 21:24 - Chaos Magic, Psychic Warriors & DIA Programs 36:04 - Science of Remote Viewing & Interdimensional Beings 45:58 - Scole Experiments, Many Worlds & Classified Physics 59:05 - Combat, Epstein, Jersey Drones & Nuclear Triggers 1:08:31 - Nukes, Aliens, Epstein Networks & Depopulation 1:18:43 - Iran Strategy, Operation Opera & Israeli Deterrence 1:29:16 - Iran Conflict, Drones & Strategic Failures 1:38:51 - Russia-Ukraine Drones, Cyber Warfare & Simulation Theory 1:50:07 - Sheepdipping, Iraq Intelligence & Israeli Information Ops 2:00:34 - Zorro Ranch, Precognitive Dreams & Epstein Connections 2:11:40 - Disclosure, SOL Foundation & Charles Fort Theory 2:23:01 - Alien Reality, Collins Elite, MKOFTEN & Skinwalker Ranch 2:36:58 - UFO Whistleblowers, Hyperobjects & Hidden Reality 2:46:50 - UFO Files, Human Hybridization & Pat Price 2:54:38 - Heaven’s Gate, Hale-Bopp & Art Bell 3:01:51 - Sean's Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 428 - Sean Hazlett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This show is supported by Odu. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up, and it gets complicated and confusing. Odu solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odu is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on features you need. check out odu at o do o d o o dot com that's o d o o dot com kirk metzker said you're fun so that's that's a high bar right yeah i know it's a little uh i don't know why he thought that but i'll try not to disappoint i was

just telling julian before i showed up that i was like this close to getting some uh white claws to kind of bring the episode but i mean i didn't have enough time and you know the place i was in i I don't know if I wanted to be walking around with it might encourage predators. That may be. You got to watch the neighborhoods. But I actually, when I went to do the Discovery Channel thing, they had me cut together like a fake reel where they're like, hey, can we just give you a quick script? And you film it and you act like you're on camera. And Dief and I were like, okay, fine.

So we'd just film him with Kurt Metzker. We'd just finish filming with him. And so I took the laptop right here and I let it. It was like four lines. So I read it line by line. And then afterwards, I was like, well, fuck, I got to put a guest in there. So I went and found footage of Kurt, like, ripping white claws and playing with the fucking... And ended up in the...

Not only did it end... I'm like, I finish editing it real quick, and I'm like, this is hilarious. They're never going to accept this. I sent it to the EP at fucking Discovery. And he's like, awesome. I'm like, oh, my God. And then the director, like, insisted on leaving it in. So he's, like, a co-star of that show with the white clothes.

You got to love it. He needs to get, like, an endorsement. Like contractor, something. Yeah, pull that mic in a little bit, by the way. All right, that better? Yeah, it's better. Yeah. He needs an endorsement from White Claw.

He absolutely does. Yeah. He's just, he's like peddling it and he's not getting any love for it. Well, he's getting love for it, but he's not getting any money for it. He's not getting money for it. You know, we're in New Jersey right now. You gotta have the mullah, baby. Right.

But how did he even find you? This is bizarre. So again, I have a relatively small channel. It's called Threw Glass Darkly. Right. Link down below. Yep. And there's an episode.

I talk to a lot of remote viewers. Like actual, not like, you know, like my dog scratching his left nutzack. And, you know, I see visions of ghosts. No, it's like, it's actually the people who were trained in the military protocol that went all the way back to Ingo Swan back in 1970. Yeah, Stargate program. Yeah. Well, Grill Flames, Center Lane, it went by various names. But I talked to a lot of those guys like David Morehouse.

Paul Smith, Lynn Buchanan, and I was interviewing Lynn Buchanan. And he, you know, had a story about an abduction that he had. And it came back as kind of a strange memory. He was kind of going out, getting in his car, and, you know, he always be paranoid about forgetting something. And he always, like, it was just, it was absurd. And he kind of sits in his car and his wife's like, you know, she's used to it. And she's like, oh, you forget something again?

The car keys. And suddenly he had this memory that kind of came back, this hidden memory of this abduction experience. Anyway, I can talk about that later. You can talk about it now. We got it all day, man. Yeah. So this is actually, wasn't recounted for the first time on my podcast.

It's actually in a book called Alien Agenda by Jim Mars. And it's actually recounted in there. And I didn't even know that. I had the book on my shelf from like decades earlier. And I found it in there. I'm like, holy crap. It's in the book. Hey, guys.

If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. But anyway, Lynn tells this story where he wakes up on, you know, he's seated with all these people and everybody around him is kind of in a daze. And there's like this tall, you know, for lack of a better word, tall white, but this like really like stacked built, for lack of a better word, non-human intelligence, right? like big black eyes, white skin, et cetera. And he's still kind of semi in a daze.

And he kind of looks over at this being and says something to the effect of, you know, he thinks he's on like an airliner. And he's just like, hey, can I get a window seat? And this thing looks at him like a lion was just let loose, kind of runs out of the room. It comes back and there's this, you know, small gray, right, that tries to basically say everything's all right and hypnotize him. And he finally realizes he's in this like weird, weird situation where it's kind of an abduction. So the being kind of shows him how to fly the craft. It has one of these hand devices that you've seen and like is purported to

have been in the Roswell crash, either the Roswell crash or like something that Bob Lazare is described. And shows him how to basically fly this thing. So they eventually land on some place where there's black grass. It's like a twilight area. And this gray is just like, why don't you stay with me? You know, and would you like to consider being a pilot? And the guy's like, Lynn Buchanan is like, yeah, it'd be fantastic. It's like, well, you'll never be able to return to your family. Meanwhile, and this is just, again, this is one of the stories. It's so weird that all the rest of the people, they funnel into this building on this hill. And he hears like, he'd hear like a blood-curdling scream.

And then a chorus of laughter. And then there would be another blood-curdling scream. And then another chorus of laughter. And he asked the gray, like, what hell's going on over there? He's just like, don't worry about it. It's not. Anyway. And they're talking.

It's not telepathic. No, it's telepathic. It's telepathic. It's telepathic. It's definitely telepathic. So this is a story in a particular podcast, and that's a, how Kurt found me. He's just like, he could. Yeah, it checks out. But here's the thing, like, Lynn Buchanan didn't believe it because he had kind of faint memories of it. So then he had

his team at Fort Meade remote view it. Now, for people who don't know anything about remote viewing, the protocol is you get eight, eight characters, right? So like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. It used to be geospatial coordinates. but that would ruin the experience because when you're dealing with military officers and personnel, right, they'll start to see eight-digit coordinates and they'll be able to figure out roughly where in the world they would be looking at, right? Okay. So the way that this has to work, or ideally it works, is through a double-blind protocol. Okay.

And the way it works is you're given kind of just eight random characters and it corresponds to, a target. Okay. Now the target could be, it's just someplace in space and time. It could be the past, could be the future, could be anything. Typically, it's an intelligence or it was designed as an intelligence collection method, right? And so it was scientifically verified. It was produced in Stanford Research Institute, SRI, Stanford Research Institute, designed by they could kind of working with this guy Ingo Swan who was a gifted natural psychic but anyway just I'll get back to that

but the way this works is that's all you get you just get eight characters and it's like for people who are software engineers it's like a pointer it's like a pointer in memory someplace but it's just a place and space and time the reason they do that is you don't want to pollute the data that you would get

from the target so and it's something they call front loading. Also, and that's if I, and there are examples of front loading where remote viewing has gone horribly awry, right? That's the whole heaven's gate situation, but we can talk about that one later too. So you don't want to have front loading. You just want to open that aperture perception and see what comes in. You don't want to be polluted, right? Otherwise, if I tell you, hey, I'm looking for a missile base in Russia, you know, near semi-Pelitensk or whatever, you're just, you're going to

start seeing missiles. You're going to start making up shit. Right. So it needs to be like tabula rasa no way. Yeah. Double blind protocol. Sometimes it can be single blind, but even then there are some people who claim to know how this works, but the CIA, DIA, we're never able to,

figure out how it works. And that was part of the reason they, quote, unquote, canceled the program. The program's still definitely going on. But I think Dean Radin, who was associated with that, Dr. Dean Radin, if you haven't talked to him, you definitely need to talk to him. I know that name. I think Danny Jones. Danny Jones, definitely talked to him. Yeah. But he used to work at Bell Labs, and he was also affiliated with the program way back when. And he's done an immense amount of research on SAI, magic, like MA, G, I, C, K, all that stuff, and has demonstrated that SI works to, you know, odds against chance in some cases in the, like,

I mean, numbers that, like, we, over, like, quadrillion, let's say, right? Like, well over one in quadrillion odds against chance of this thing, of certain things happening just randomly. But in terms of, this intelligence technique, it's just in order to kind of focus the mind, you slowly open that aperture of perception. So you typically start with just classifying, is it a manmade object, is it land, is it water, is it a life form, et cetera? And you slowly methodically open that aperture perception through, depending on the technique you use, because there's various techniques

once they broke from Stargate, a lot of these viewers kind of put their own little stamp on it. Okay. But you gradually open that aperture perception so that by the time you're in stage six, right? Back in the day, they would build like full-scale clay models and things like that. I haven't seen anybody doing that today. But it's a real capability. All right. I was holding in a question there just so I can fully understand this.

It makes sense at the beginning where you're explaining they open up. the aperture and they start with however they're doing it if they're sitting a room sitting like this or just staring at the wall i'm not sure maybe it's different for different remote viewers but they come up with the thing like the base case of it and then is someone like asking them more questions about what they see so they can start to whittle it down to i think you described it in stages like stage one two three four five six yeah so sometimes so there's monitored viewing where you have a monitor that will kind of probe you and ask questions on certain things that you're reporting.

Like a person's doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Now, ideally, you want that person also to be blind. Otherwise, they're going to be kind of foisting the... Right. And the other thing is, this is what I was trying to get at and I got distracted.

They're also trying to... Because they don't know how it works, right? Some people claim to know how it works, but, you know, it... In any of this stuff, it's difficult to really tell. The reason you don't want the monitor to have it in his head because it might be something they call a telepathic overlay, right? So you might be just pulling it out of their head.

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That link is in my description below. That's Shopify.com slash Julian. For all you know. There's also a debate on whether or not you're pulling it out. from the future, right, from you being in the future. So as an example, let's say you're remote view an event and then it happens, your remote viewing might not necessarily be at the actual event. It could be that you're remote viewing your own future and you see the newspaper article.

So there's a debate on that. So people like Eric Wargo, who's focused on time and how it works, will tell you that it's, you're basically just looking ahead to your own future and seeing that's why feedback is important. But there are others who will tell you, no, you're actually going to that event in space and time. And that's why, I mean, like, your consciousness, not you, actually. That's why people have things like effects like bilocation. Now, by location in the grander, si area, typically means that you're in two places at once.

Like there's saints that have been reported like that, like Padre Pio, So, Teresa, I think it's Teresa Vila, stuff like that. Sounds familiar. In remote viewing by location just means that you're experiencing physiologically the effects of something you're looking at. So, and it can be dangerous. So if you're looking at like a fire, a forest fire, you know, some remote viewers will start sweating, like their heart will start palpitating.

They'll feel intense discomfort because they're getting a little bit too close. because you're not just seeing this stuff in your mind. You're actually feeling it, touching it. You're feeling like impressions of where it's supposed to go. Is that why Padre Pio was reported to have like the stigmata? I don't know. Was that from that? I don't know if he was, I mean, he wouldn't have been...

Can we check that deep? Maybe I'm mixing him up with someone? Yeah, he wouldn't have been trained in the protocol. That's the other thing that's important to note. Remote viewing is a very narrowly defined aspect of SI. Right. And what you see is people are flooding the zone. zone with, oh, I'm a remote viewer because I, you know, scratch my dog's nut sack.

And, you know, he, you know, vomits, you know, like pebbles and I count the pebbles. And think of it as like a form of, when you're talking about sigh and magic for the instance, it's kind of roughly interchangeable. There's, uh, because what you're doing is you're influencing, well, I'm like, I'm trying to find a way to generalize it. aspects of either seeing or controlling reality, right? Okay. So Dean Radin has a book. I think it's called, it's like magic or something like that.

But there's kind of three different forms. There's divination, right? There's enchantment, and then there's theurgy. So divination is something like remote viewing would be a subset of divination. Now, there are people out there who are naturally gifted psychics who claim to be remote viewing. They're not remote viewing, but they are demonstrating some aspect of clairvoyance. It's just different.

So you have to be careful about. And how do we really, like, define that then? Because, again, when I've talked with different people about remote viewing, to my dumbass, some of it feels like it's on a spectrum, if you will. And you were saying at least earlier in my defense that it's done differently by some different people in different ways. So like, how do they box it and say, all right, that's something. psychic, that's remote viewing. If they don't start with a number, right?

Not a number, but like a number, like a string of eight number digits characters, okay? And they don't know what they're targeting. And they know what they're targeting. I mean, I have to be careful with this too, because there are some instances where people know that they're looking for a missing person. So I don't want to be too doctrinal, but you can't just say, hey, I want you. I want you to, like, remote view, you know, this alien species that I saw at the back of the comet, right? Because you're going to, you're going to, like, you're going to, that's basically what happened with this Heaven's Gate situation, right? Where someone was set up by someone from the original program. Anyway, there's.

Yeah, I will come back to the Heaven's Gate thing. Yeah. So if they don't start with that, it's probably not remote viewing. And there's kind of two broad categories. There's what you would call CRV, which is coordinate remote viewing or controlled remote viewing. That's where you kind of start with the number and target. And then there's something called, and that's where you sit, you know, in the alpha wave brain state. And you're just kind of writing, decode, you're detecting decoding and, you know, observing various targets.

Then there's something called extended remote viewing where you probably get a little bit closer down to theta. and it's more of a free form. You're just kind of not, you're kind of laying down, you're very relaxed and you're trying to see certain things. So that's, and then I would also say

if they were trained by someone from the original program, it's probably removaling. Okay, but if they're like, you know, I'm like, Sicilian mystic, you know, from whatever, like they might,

actually be accurate and they might be, you know, doing some form of divination, right? It could be thrown chicken bones and what's the like what's the I Ching, something like that? I ching. I mean, you're outside of my pig right now. So that's like a Chinese form of divination and like Philip K. Dick. Love Philip K. Dick. Well, here's a, here's a story. So there's another author that, that I've spoken to in the past who knew Philip K. Dick. because he's a, you know, and the name's escaping me for right now. Tim Powers. So he wrote like the Pirates of the Caribbean, like that was, I think, based on one of his...

Really? On Stranger Tides, like that specific, yeah. Wow. So Tim Powers. That's a flex. Well, I mean, anyway, he knew Philip K. Dick. And he said that Philip K. Dick would routinely use the A. Ching. And he would get answers that he didn't like.

So whenever he got an answer he didn't like, he would, he would literally make the I Ching, like, I think it's like, if it's like a board or it's not cards, but it's, you know, some contraption. He would make it sleep outside. I mean, he was a crazy crazy guy. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And he also attracted like really crazy. He was like into really crazy women for some reason. They usually are in that kind of situation for sure, you know.

They can't live with us here on earth. but that is another method of divination that some people swear by right tarot might be something else i don't know i you know don't have any experience like the cards yeah all that yeah trying to tap into the other side astrology also would be another form of divination so those are the kind of the categories don't tell the coffee shops in new york that shit they know already boy so they so that's divination right then you have enchantment, right? And that's like casting spells on people and weird stuff like that that you would do in ceremonial magic, witchcraft. And then there's theergy. Theergy is just invoking the help of an entity,

right? So like prayer would be something like that. And according to Dean Radin, there are empirical effects from prayer that are indistinguishable from spells apparently he's like they're the same thing how does he explain that i i haven't gone gone into it but um if you look at and in fact this this gentleman actually just passed so he was the i've done three interviews of people that did not want to be seen right just their voices so you know Like it or not, like AI allows you to create like a little character that you can sync their voice to and whatnot to make it a little bit more entertaining. Do you change their voice to make it like, oh, no. Oh, you keep it the same.

I keep the voice the same. I just change the character instead of. Yeah, and there's like a program that'll lip sync and all that stuff and you can create basically whatever you want. So this gentleman's name was Pete Carroll. He was the one of the, if not the creator of a system of. magic called chaos magic, which, uh, but now I'm sounding like absolutely crazy. I just explain kind of, I'm just, I'm just saying it's out there. I'm just reporting. I'm just reporting. I understand that. But the way that he explains it, though, is actually

remarkably consistent with how quantum mechanics works, right? So you're familiar. Everybody, you've probably heard this a million times, but the double-slet experiment, right? You, if you don't observe the electron or the subatomic particle going through, you get, probability distribution of every possible way that they could go through that slit, right? But if you observe it, you just get one thing against the screen, like that deterministic thing. So all chaos magic basically said is because Peter, and by the way, he just passed, I think, on April 22nd, and I was supposed to interview him on May 4th, which is, you know, super unfortunate. But he developed a system and the way that he said the system works is,

If you think of just simple probabilities, right? So the probability of any one event is P. The probability of that event not occurring is 1 minus P, right? Because of the total 100%, you cover everything. Okay. So the way that, you know, he theorized magic works. And again, it's just, you know, a board chemistry student at the time that was coming up with this stuff, is that there was kind of like a coefficient before that 1 minus P.

So if you, let's say you wanted to become like an NBA star tomorrow and you perform some sort of magical ritual, right? The probability of becoming a NBA star is extremely, extremely small. The probability of not becoming an NBA star is extremely large, right? 1 minus P. But you're saying there's a chance. Well, that's what that magical factor is. but the multiple in that thing would have to be, you know, enormous to overcome what that probability is of, you know, so it's very unlikely no matter what you do. So it works for small things.

There's also some, according to Peter Carroll, there are also certain other things that are related to it like it operates on the subconscious. So this is this whole sigillization thing, right? So you typically put what you desire onto some. And I think Dr. Heather Lynn talks a lot about this. In fact, she was being interviewed by one of the hosts on Coast to Coast. A.M., not, you know, Richard Stairat, I think. And but it wasn't for Coast to Coast. It was just for his own podcast.

And she was going into the detail on how you would create a sigil and kind of invoke it. And during that, she had this like, painting of Pizzou behind her, which is basically a Sumerian, ancient Sumerian demon. And as she was going through this, the thing crashed and her, the thing just cut out. So she got back on and, you know, it was just weird, weird stuff. But the point of this sigilization is if it's in your conscious desire, it's less likely to happen. but if you were able to kind of invoke what that desire is into some sigil that two days later,

you're not even going to remember what it is. It operates on your subconscious to manifest it. Again, in theory, haven't tried it. Don't know if it works. Yeah, I'm going to sit here and try to manifest a fucking 16 inch dick at this rate. Holy shit. I don't know, like, whenever you get into this space, there's always going to be a ton of bullshit. You know what I mean?

Like there's going to be things where it's like some people are just making a living off of writing books, claiming you can do all this stuff that people actually can't do. And then sometimes if it's lighter, you know, think of just people who are like pure manifestation. Like if I just say the words, it'll happen, which technically isn't true. You know, it can have some sort of placebo effect to where things do happen because, by the way, there is absolutely true science to something like positive affirmations and things like that, which are a piece of manifestation. But what's always fascinated me about the remote viewing is the fact that the government and the deep bureaucracies and the spy people have used this and at least at one point publicly sworn by it.

Like you said, they claim to have ended Project Stargate. That's bullshit. Obviously, they're still doing something like this. But the fact that decades ago, they founded a program on the basis of some people having some weird, very cool thing going on in their brain to where they could actually be. able to see things to forecast around the world for measures of national security. And then the fact that they used that and also seem to have, and I believe this, gotten at least some results from it, should be mind-numbing to everybody. Like, that's crazy to me. Well, when it came out, there was a book that came out called Psychic Warrior. It was by David Morehouse. That's how I found

out about it. I think I read it in 2018. And he was the first one I interviewed because he had a background similar in the military that I did. His was much more impressive. But we were both combat arms officers. I was a cavalry officer and he was an infantry officer, but he was good enough to command a ranger company, which is very few people in the army are kind of given that honor. And he was running a training exercise in Jordan in this place called Batnauld, which is kind of this, you know, allegedly, according to the Jordanians, it's like a haunted valley, it's Valley of the Gin, whatever. And as he was staying there with his soldiers at night, like all the Jordanian soldiers would be

like randomly screaming and things like that because they believed entities kind of roam the area. Anyway, while he was in that valley, they were running a just a field training exercise, live fire exercise. And he got shot in the head with a machine gun by one of the Jordanians. Now, it, you know, hit the Kevlar and bounced off it and stuff like that, but he had kind of one of those hematomas. Yeah. And was basically ejected out of his body and had a number of experiences. Now, ejected out of his body? In terms of like his consciousness essence, he said it was, he reported it as if it was like a frequency on a radio station dial.

It was turned and he was like another frequency. Whoa. And he had, you know, some like older gentleman. It could have been his higher self. It could have been, he didn't know, but basically said, you're, you know, you're on the wrong path. You're supposed to be on the path of peace. This and yada, yada, yada. Yeah, yeah.

Something like that. So he, obviously, if, if you have an injury like that and you report it or you report that you're, you know, had some out of body experience in the Ranger Regiment, you're gone, right? Like, at least back then, I don't know about now, but back then, it's just like you got to be deployable, 100% of the thing. time or you're gone. So he kind of held on to it. And I think in his next assignment, at that time in his career, like every army officer wants to avoid recruiting duty. It's just like the absolute worst. So he somehow finagled an intelligence posting working in DIA. So one of the scientists at DIA, or actually they have these these psychologists, I think he was working on some program and this guy was he would ask him things in really guilt-inducing ways and he's just like oh so have

you had any strange experiences you know or you would say anything you want to you'd say like anything you want to tell me right and just kind of look at him and he's like all right fuck it so he just tells the story and the psychologist says I might have something for you so he pulls out all these files of all the previous remote viewing exercises that these people in Stargate looked at and basically just kind of gave the file to them and said, hey, want to you just read these over the next few days and get back to me and tell me if it's something you're interested in. So what he was reading was during the Iranian hostage crisis, the remote viewers have, the difficulty with that is there weren't any plans of the U.S.

consulate or embassy, I think it was embassy, in the United States, right? There may have been plans and stuff like that there, right, on site, but it was obviously the Iranians were in control. So they didn't have a map of the place and obviously they want to, this is like the Desert One fiasco where they want to get Delta in there to rescue the hostages. So they only had two ways to get information. Ted Koppel and this really really, really, like esoteric method means of collection. So with Ted Cople, they would just bring in the cameras and like they would kind of show over his shoulder and this and that. But the remote viewers physically mapped out the floor plan of the embassy, U.S. Embassy, so that Delta would have it.

And he was just... Now, wait a second. Why would Delta have not, why would we not have already had access to that if it was our embassy? You know how government is. Yeah, not exactly organized. I'm sure they had floor plans on site, right? But they didn't have access to the U.S. government didn't have access to that because the Iranians were controlled or had to control the. Yeah, by then they did. That's crazy, though, that they wouldn't keep like a fucking copy that in Lately.

But they're able to create the floor plan of it so that if there's some sort of drop in, they Delta knows where they're going. They have something. Yeah. Right. Do we know which remote viewers did that, by the way? I don't know. I would imagine maybe it was Joe McMonogical because he would have been active at that time.

That's what was coming to mind. The rest of them, though, I don't, I mean, like, Morehouse was kind of later in that cycle. But he just would have seen previous remote viewers. They also, I think, remote viewed the locations of some of the people that were taken, the hostages from Beirut. When was that? 83. Like 82, 83?

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like just like any intelligence collection method, you can't put 100% in it, right? It's also not a good idea to put everything on one viewer, right? It's best to have a constellation of viewers independently viewing the same target. I can separate rooms, blind completely. Yep. And then looking at taking the correlation

of those things and seeing where things match. Yeah. And then those are more likely to be correct. But it's not like a fail safe. It's always right 100% of time. It's going to, I think usually it's around for a good viewer, maybe 60% accurate. But, you know, if I just give you pencil and paper

and tell you to describe literally anything in the universe. And I'm 60% accurate. And you're 60% accurate. Yeah. And you're 60% of. accurate, something's going on. Yeah. Like something is, something is accurate. What do we know about that science? I've talked to different people about this, but you're pretty deep into it. Because before I actually asked that question, the one part where I've had conversations with different

remote viewers or people that have been around remote viewers, where they'll make a claim where I'm like, I don't know about that, is when they'll say, well, technically, most people can actually tap into this and do this. And actually, my friend, Dr. Julian Mossbridge, who's amazing. And she, I believe she was even saying something like that. And that was the one thing where I'm like, Julie, I feel like, you know, if you're doing this, that's one thing. But, you know, I don't know if me, Joe and Nacho are going to start seeing fucking, you know, Iraqi prisons in two seconds right now if we had to lock in and do it. So what is the science that allows at least some people to do it? And what is the, what is the, in your opinion, the validity of an argument from people like Julia that might say a lot of people could technically do it?

Yeah, so a number of things to unpack. So number one, when they were first coming up with this protocol, they were doing these outbounder experiments, right, where they would just send a team out to some location and then they would just ask somebody, like, just describe where this team is. They weren't using the numbers or anything like that yet. But then Ingo Swan was tasked by the army, like, look, we can't do this loosey-goosey like, you know, I'm feeling the, my aperture perception's opening and I'm feeling it like I'm in the right mood and like we need soldiers to be able to do this. So we need to have a step by step protocol where, you know, you can train anybody to do it.

And that's, that's real. It's just like, can everybody play basketball? Well, you know, like the paralyzed person probably can't, right? but most people can, right? Are they going to be good at it? No. But they can, you know, most people have the capacity to play. It's the same thing with sciability.

But the reason it's not more widespread, in my opinion, and this is my opinion, is that does our intelligence community really want like two middle-aged women, like remote viewing Langley, Virginia, and then posting it on Twitter? That's the thing. Where does it stop? You know, like you can't put like a fucking iron dome of remote viewing around any place you want. There are, there are means to do it. Oh, there are.

But a Faraday cage ain't going to do it, right? Okay. Like, it works through Faraday cages. So it's not, I don't want to say it's not electromagnetic, but there's, it's like a non-local form of perception. You're talking about quantum mechanics, quantum coupling, that sort of stuff. Because everybody's connected, this, you know, you hear this kind of like a mantra. But there's something, something to that. In terms of, sorry, what was the question?

Well, I was talking about what is the science behind being able to do it? And the other part of it was like, which is kind of what you were just talking about, which is, well, could everyone technically do it, that kind of thing. So the answer to that is most people have the capacity to do it. But it takes, it's like anything, it requires practice. in terms of the science, I've heard a variety of different explanations. So at the biological level, the person that you want to look at is a remote viewer called Edward Reardon. Now, he doesn't have a science background.

He's not a biologist. He's arrived the way he think it works entirely through his own kind of perception and remote viewing. So again, I'd have to like, there's a whole episode I do with him on this and I'm not queued in. but there's some parts of the brain. I think the CA3 component of the brain is somehow related. The Caldate Patamen is also somewhat related to it. And then there's a way that you receive, kind of think of the information that people receive from non-local consciousness is like just cloud computing, right? And then the brain is a transceiver.

So it comes from somewhere. and then your brain detects, decodes, and objectifies this information as it comes in. That's right. Yeah. So that's kind of the biological side of it. And then as it starts going through your brain, it passes through all those parts of the brain that, again, I'm not an expert on it. And this is just, and it's also his own perception. In terms of how I think a David Morehouse has described it, and we'll get into, you know, I'm sure heard of Itsock Bentav. and more house has done a couple great podcasts with danny in the past but yeah there's a lot of

legendary names here yeah so well so the way he would explain it is there's this eight dimensional holographic field right and what we're doing is we're trying we're accessing that field and we're trying to collapse that data into three-dimensional or actually four-dimensional space time right because there's a time component in the fourth dimension. And you're just kind of reaching out that information that everybody is able to access. There are also, and this is,

this kind of goes separately, I'm taking kind of another area of physics that I know very little about, but is similar. And this is like the E8 lattice theory, right? Which again, it's like this reality of some eight dimensional hypercube. And there are little tiny crystals

that are part of it that are of plank length, right? And reality is, our reality is basically a projection of that into lower dimension. So think of it as like shadow of a higher dimension. And it's built out of something they call quasi-crystals. There's something about lie groups. Don't ask me what the lie group is. It's a, I'm not a physicist. But that could also be a similar mechanism to what Morehouse was explaining.

How do you spell lie group? L-I-E? Yeah, L-A-E. Can we pull that up, deep? Yeah, you're going to get, like, physicist gibberish. Like, it's going to be like that. Well, let's try to decode it in New Jersey right here. See what we got.

Oh, we're looking at the I-ching, huh? Well, we had that earlier. Yeah, L-I-E. You're going to get some, like, lie groups in remote sensing scene classification. That sounds about right, right? In this... Yeah, it's mathematics too, so it's like, lie groups are applied.

Yeah, you already searched it. Put E8 lattice lie group. Is that how you spell? You want to spell? The E8 lattice is a highly symmetric eight dimensional structure linked to the largest exceptional lie group containing 240 root points. I understood all that. That's one of the very clear.

Yeah, I know exactly. I'm picking up what they're lifting. Yeah, the root points are pretty important. It acts as a potential foundation for unified field theories, notably used by A, Garrett-Lisi, to suggest a connection between particles, forces, and gravity. The 248-Dimensional E8 Lie Group represents a complex, eight-dimensional crystal structure. It sounds really cool. Yeah.

So that's, that only is a potential explanation for remote viewing. It's also a potential explanation for what's going on with when people talk about interdimensional beings and stuff like that. This is an explanation for that. Yeah. Yeah. If every reality is a shadow of this other reality, right? You change an object. There'll be

like an infinite number of overlapping shadows. So think of a reality or the thing that pisses me off is every time one of these whistleblowers, they're not whistleblowers. You know how they're not whistleblowers because they're still alive. So I'm just, you know, So they've been

allowed to talk about whatever they're talking about like obvious they've been cleared to talk about it. So whenever they talk about interdimensional like interdementialities like that like they never explain what that means

right? Like I think Eric Weinstein was on Twitter like he was constantly complaining about I want either no physicist blah blah blah blah but he's got a point in the sense that like no one ever explains what they mean by interdimensional beings like what does that mean? Does that mean like different realities?

They're overlapping. Does it mean like what Philip K. Dick did in Man in the High Tower where they're just going between dimensions of actual reality? I think that's exactly what it means. But no one ever defines it. They just talk about it. But I think that's what this E8 lattice theory kind of explains. And this is where I would, there are British researcher, an American researcher and an Irish

researcher. So Steve Mara, Barry Fitzgerald. And then relatively newer on the scene is. Nathaniel Gillis, where like Steve Mara started with like poltergeist activity and and kind of like looking at the skull experiment. Are you familiar with the school experiment?

The skull experiment? Skull, S-C-O-L-E. Refill me in? This is more people should know about it because it is absolutely wild. So they did an experiment in England in the town of Skoll in the 90s. Okay.

And in that experiment, They, you're familiar with like Stephen Greer and his CE5. That's just another flavor of this, which back in the day during the spiritual, spiritualist movement, people would have, engage in seances, right? So they typically have, I want to say it's like five to seven sitters, five or seven sitters where they have people sit around the table and they all kind of get into like a trance like state. and they summon or invoke entities. Okay. So they systematically tried to do this in 1992 and documented and recorded everything that happened.

So typically it would start with poltergeist activity. Then they would start to see or hear disembodied voices. And then they would got into a closer thing where once, and they would swap out people because you have to have the right number of folks around the table. table. And then they would eventually experience a ports. So you know what an apport is? It's when something will just materialize out of thin air, like a marble or like we start going into the whole cryptid. The cryptids. The cryptid thing. This is layered. That happens with all that where has been suggested to happen. I think a lot of it's similar stuff. It's just called

different things. So, you know, things started materializing. And then at some point, they have, there was, like, entities that they started physically seeing. And they have one on camera. Like, I can't make it up. It's called Mr. Blue. Just look it up. Right. And there's just like, it looks like a gray. It's just like glowing blue and just kind of on camera. Anyway, there's also a technique called quantum imaging where they're able to take, uh, somehow access these overlapping realities and take pictures around. Again, I haven't seen it. I haven't experienced it. I'm just reporting. Just reporting the facts. Okay. Oh, there it is. Does that look familiar? Yep, that's it. That's not creepy looking at all. Holy shit. What ended up happening is the experiment kind of got out of

control and they just stopped it. Uh, but, anyway, Steve Mira pointed me to this E8 lattice theory as kind of a model of reality that's close to that. Yeah, I do, I really do think there's something to the different dimensions of possibility. And I've really thought this since talking about Mitch Okaku back in episode 145 a few years ago because to me, he always explained it the best where he'd talk about like, imagine if you had a transistor radio and you just turned it a little bit and instead of us too there'd be a dinosaur right here and i'm like that actually clocks because to me we're so far away from

wherever the bottom layer of physics is and there are so many different weird things that happen and i'm spaghettiing a bunch of things in my head right now that are inexplicable whether it be something like deja vu or dreaming something into existence or the fact that you dream it all and basically turn into a, you know, a nightly death state in a way going outside your own consciousness to understand something else or see things that could be real or later come real. In the world, all these things like put together followed by the happenstance of time and place and situation and all the possible outcomes with like the butterfly effect and things like that. To me, it would make sense that there are

different physical realities that exist based on each distinct possibility, if that makes sense. You know, like this is where it gets into like time travel and stuff like that as well. But I always, that was kind of what sold me on some of this because when you talk to Michio about time travel, he's like, it's not as simple as going back to April 14th, 1965 and making sure John Wilkes Booth doesn't make it in there with the gun. You can go do that. but you're not changing the reality you're coming from you're changing you're creating a new estuary on the river and you're changing a different reality meaning a different dimension for what that

is and this is exactly what philip k dick laid out effectively and it just that seems like there is a there there so the question is is if there are entities that have kind of figured this out first they might be poking into this reality again i'm pure spec let's go yeah pure spec right they could be poking in it. I mean, and that's the same thing could be how time works. It sounds like in the block universe, again, I'm not a physicist. I think the way it works is everything is kind of, it's already happened. And if you just went back, you're not going to change anything. Because if you change something, that was the way it was, are always supposed to be. It sounds like Michi Okako's referring to something different. Maybe it's like a Hugh Everett, many worlds theory.

Right. But the thing about that, though, is the, the math, and again, I don't, not a physicist, don't fully understand it, is that once a reality is set, all the possibilities collapse and you can never go to a parallel, like that, that branch is forever closed. Now, maybe there's some other way to get there, and which he seems to be referencing, because, you know, I think Hugh Everett's many worlds interpretation was like in the 1960s, so there's been a lot of changes since then. And I think the way that this stuff works, I think, um, wouldn't necessarily have to have been classified, right? You've heard the,

Indreason, Mark Indrisen, you had that interview where they were talking about AI and somebody in the White House and they were talking about, you know, we're going to classify some of this. And Mark Andreessen's like, how are you going to classify basic, like this is mathematics.

You can't classify mathematics. And whoever he was talking to at the White House said, we absolutely can. We've classified whole areas of physics. so yeah it's it's on twitter you can find it like it's just can we find that deep we've classified whole areas of physics that's where they use yeah it's not surprising it's not it's just the brazenness of just saying that out loud to a dude who's gonna run on joe rogan and then say that that's yeah that's interesting to me

wow because like do you think a little sidebar here you think they got shit like anti-gravity maybe maybe where would it come from if they had it like did they get it from somewhere else well then we get into kind of layers of control right when you talk about Epstein I wasn't even going there but do sign me up let's go

well I'll give you an example there's somebody just told me the name but Epstein's bragging about this cold fusion guy that he just ponds Yeah, Stanley Ponds, right? Where he's just like, yeah, I took care of him. So anytime there's an invention like that, there's just some weird system above the nation state level

that just kind of shuts things off or makes them go away. And, you know, there are folks that I've interviewed who, like, I can't verify any of these claims. And that's the other thing, too, that's, you know, this deep into the interview I need to emphasize, there's a ton of miss and disinformation in this that is deliberately meant to steer you away from things.

So as an example, like the Tick-Tac thing, the fact that they're, you know, it's definitely not Russia or China. Like, it's definitely not. Now, could it be ours? They saw around the Nimitz and all that. Yeah. Now, it could be ours. And the reason I say it could be ours is because what they're trying to tell us what

it is, right? They're like pushing away from that. Why do you say it's just at the outset? Why do you say it's definitely not Russia? China to start? Because we wouldn't be the global hegemon if they had that. Yeah. Yeah, there's no way. I think I agree with you. So anyway, can I just going back to it? But I don't, I don't think it's ours. But I'm willing to, you know, admit that I could easily be wrong. Yeah, that's actually one, because you're, to get more specific, one of the stories you hear with that is David Fraver,

Commander David Fravor who talks about seeing the TikTok and then has the video of it that shows something clearly doing some weird shit that was technology we didn't have in 2004 and we still don't have right now. That said, I'd be open to it being something else for sure, meaning not of this universe. But I've always looked at that one and I don't know why. I just love how he describes it because he's just giving you the facts of what he saw and letting you decide. I appreciate that about David Fraver. I look at that one and I go, you know, if DARPA was talking telepathically to dolphins in fucking 1992, I feel like they might have had some weird Tick-Tac flying in odd directions by 2004. Maybe I'm crazy. So this is the reason I don't think it's ours.

So I spent, you know, four out of my five years in the Army training U.S. forces for Iraq and Afghanistan, right? So I was what they would call the red team, Op 4, was an expert in Soviet doctrine and tactics because that's what we were focused on. In what? Soviet. Doctrine in tactics. Okay.

Before 9-11, right? After 9-11, we changed things up a little bit and were, but we would have these massive war games with, you know, five to 10,000 people on both sides. And it was like a big, advanced version of laser tag. We had these little like Raytheon kind of lasers that could reach out and touch something too. kilometers away and then there would be a little light and we would track everything where would

you do this in the mojave desert ford or one that's a kind of gangster u.s yes u.s national training center it was it was a blast because unlike many other kind of countries the way that we train we train as we fight right so we but our mission was to beat the shit out of whoever they put us up against so we could expose all the areas of weakness that they it shore up before they went to actual combat. But having had that experience, it's highly dangerous, right? And you don't inject things that

the people who are on either side don't know about. So, and that was just kind of ground some limited air, right? We would call in A10s and stuff like that just to... Whoa. They've gone all out. yeah it was we would use um c s gas because we were russian we could use chemical weapons so uh oh you're playing the russians oh yeah we would we do paper uh and we also would do deception right so i would go

buy like a hundred blue paper plates from walmart and we would lay them out like minefields right and then uh you know we just wait in the keyhole position and you know the unit would come in and think they're mind fields. They're just, you know, they could, they could just drood and then we would ambush them and kill him, right? Oh my God. So, yeah, we got really into him. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, they're just, there's still a lot. Called the whoop-y light. Yeah, it's like, whoop, whoop, like, we gotcha, right? Do you talk to him in the Russian accent, too? Like, we go to you, motherfucker. No, no, no. You're not doing that.

But. You got to play it apart. Come on. It was fun. It was fun. I could see your eyes going back there. Yeah, I mean, it was like getting out there and, like, getting out there and, like, getting all the equipment back.

Like that was just a pain in the ass. But once like that three to four hours of like fake combat, which is not, you know, it's not real. I have buddies who went overseas after that. I didn't, I didn't go overseas. Which I regret, but most people who went overseas like you didn't miss anything, buddy.

You're okay. But they said that it gave them a pretty good experience. The only thing that it didn't do well is it didn't simulate the kinetic aspects. Like when I fire this rocket into a wall, there's going to be shrapnel. Right? And anyway, I'm getting off topic here. No, it's good.

I like tangents. The point is when you're, you know, I was just, these operations were mainly on the ground and there were no surprises. Could you imagine if you're flying a multi-million dollar aircraft on a, you know, trying to land on an aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean, you're just going to be like, surprise. Here's a, you know, here's a, you know, something that's at. crazy and you don't expect. I'm not saying it wouldn't be done, but it would be highly, highly irresponsible to do something like that because, you know, the military cares very much about safety, carries very much about protocol. And that would be the most unsafe thing I could possibly imagine Ebrodo, aside from setting a carrier on fire just to, you know, for feels, right?

So that's why I don't think it's ours. I also think about the compartmental. metalization structure though too because like even just within one agency you pick it nsa cia d ia like there will be brilliant high-level dude over here and then brilliant high-level dude on something else over here they never talk to each other this guy's read in on all this crazy shit that this guy's not and vice versa so it's like when you talk about places being able to keep a secret a lot of times the head of the snake, the top of the chain, I should say, doesn't even know what's going on down below them. Like, Pete Hagseth is the secretary of war right now. I mean, I'm not just saying this because it's Pete Hegseth. I'm saying in general, like, he doesn't know fucking three

quarters of the shit probably that happens at the Pentagon in skiffs and things like that. So if we did have something like a Tic Tac, it's not even like Delta Force or the Navy Seals or some of these guys would hypothetically know about it. I see your argument, though, that it's like... It's completely unsafe. Right. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso.

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I forget. Yeah, that was a good tangent. Oh, I know, I know. So we were talking about Epstein. So I think, I don't think Epstein is like the layer of, control that's out there, but he's the one that kind of was exposed and slipped through. I think at the highest levels, you're talking like Rockefeller Foundation, World Economic Forum, Bilderberg Group, the Atlantic Council.

Who else? I'm missing one. Trilateral commission? The trilateral commission? And that's, yeah, that gets... I'm starting to wonder if some of those places are even fronts, too. I think they, I think many of them are. I think it just keeps going, right?

But what I think is that there's some level of control that we wouldn't even recognize. Yeah. And I think when we see stuff like this, you know, like every time we mess around with nukes, right? So, you know, we're in Jersey, right? The Jersey drones. Mm-hmm. I think some of those were ours, but I think the only reason some of those were ours is because there was things that were flying in our airspace that, We're not ours. We're not Russian. We're not Chinese.

And we just flooded the zone with our own stuff in order to confuse matters so that public officials could say, oh, yeah, those are just ours. Yeah. And the other thing that you also look at where they fly these things, right? So in Jersey, they were centered around Picatinny Arsenal at around the time that I think in 2009, you can check me, the audience should check me because I don't recall exactly. But I think we took off, removed all our tactical nukes from Britain, right, or the UK. So places like Lake and Heath, stuff like that, where there were also a lot of drone sightings that around the same time.

Interesting. So, you know, I know Picatinny Arsenal is a place where they have weapons and stuff like that. But if I had to guess, I think we probably were kind of reinstalling nuclear triggers in like a W-67 gravity bomb. nuclear gravity bombs okay in English what does that mean so just the components of tactical nukes that are dropped from like B-52 bombers and things like that like just setting up the triggering mechanisms to make them work right my guess and this is just gas pure spec right is that they were putting these things back together and they were shipping them back over to

Lake and Heath as things were heightening with the Russians. Because this was back in, is it like, 2024? Yeah, December, 20204. But it was even before that, it started. Yeah, it started a little bit, but it got crazy. Yeah, in Jersey it was particular. So that would be my, there was also, there's a base, I think, Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana, where I think it's like the eighth strategic

bombing wing, which is, is also experienced a ton of these sightings at the same time. So didn't hear about it too much, but I have friends who were just getting, you know, texts and DMs from retirees, like Air Force retirees saying like these things are flying over. They're not ours. It's crazy, et cetera, et cetera. So anytime we start messing around with nukes or start moving around nukes, these things always come out. Yeah. So they're like some, in my opinion, some element of a control mechanism. Do we control it? I doubt it.

I think something above that layer of reality that Epstein kind of provides a peek into, you know, is just kind of raining the hairless monkeys in. Yeah, a little sidebar from Epstein, then we'll come right back to that back when that was happening. And then in the year after that, some different times, it came up a few times when I was on some other shows, I think I talked about some sources that I had from back in that period,

who were giving me information. And the thing was, like, they were all off record. And the one guy who was, like, I could say something, it was still, like, mostly off record. So I was pretty much kind of sucked. Like, I was pretty much blue-ballsing people. But I should say, because I kind of looked at this about six, seven months ago, when something else happened and I talked to some of these people,

the confidence I had previously in what this guy had told me it was, where I was like, ah, we're all good. Don't worry about it. I have a lot less confidence in what he said now. And I won't go further into that, but I think it's important to be able to say, like, if there's someone you thought and had very good reason to believe was an excellent source of information and then you get new information thinking that might not be the case, you should probably say that. So I never reported exactly what it was, thank God. So I don't have to go off that. But that should be said as well. That said, your argument about it having to do,

at least in the realm of tactical nukes and things like that of all the things that I heard talking with people either that had information or were smart people who could speculate on it that was always the best argument whether or not that was like some country got a dirty bomb in and we were sniffing or we were trying to plan our own shit to be able to do that I don't fucking know yeah I think the dirty bomb argument is not a like there are certain smoke detectors that have radioactive material in them. Like, I'm not going to go any further than that, but like, you don't need to be fancy, right?

Right. You probably should cut that one out, but, I mean, there was a case. There was a public case. It was in Long Island, I think. There was this guy, and I think he died of radioactive exposure, but he just collected, he just got smoke detectors and collected this massive amount of aramesium.

Aramecium. Ameri-I was saying, it's like Ameri-Maricum or Amerisium, something like that. It's like American, basically, with an I-U-M. Got it. So, and, you know, he was exposed to radiation poisoning because he just got a lot of smoke detectors and put something together and was arrested and everything was fine. But, I mean, did he die from radiation poisoning? I don't know. It's been a while.

Okay. Probably. Hopefully still kicking. Shout out, whoever you are. Yeah. You were right, by the way, based on your query, a few minutes ago when you were talking about, well, Dief was the other one you had about moving the stuff to Britain. Didn't you have one up about that? Let's get that.

So based on reports from the Federation of American Scientists and the Guardian, the United States completed the withdrawal of its nuclear weapons from Britain in 2008. approximately 110 B-61 gravity bombs were removed from RAF, Lake and Heath in Suffolk ending a 50-year presence. That's similar to what you were saying. Yeah, so I think I brought it back because of, and that's, the timing was on all these, you know, war, not warbs, but UAPs were flying over. Why do you think we've had, and I think this is great, by the way, because I get scared of this sometimes, but, you know, we've had the nuke for over 80 years. years now the world has and after we got it with the manhattan project and nagasaki and hiroshima happened obviously other governments around the world were able to develop it and more and more got it over the years why do you think through all the chaos all the disagreements all the despots

all the tyrannies everything that's existed geopolitically around the world in those 80 years the one thing that even the craziest people have never done at least that we know of is hit that button game theory Yeah. So just mutually assured destruction. Yeah. Right. And this is like you seen like the beautiful mind movie.

Yeah. With Russell Crowell? Yeah. That was, that whole science was the primary purpose of it was to game or prevent nuclear war and make sure that we weren't. I actually a crazy story about that. So we were constantly during the 80. So there's a concept called the nuclear triad, right? Mm-hmm.

Where we want to make sure that we're able to. deliver second strike capability in case we're surprised by a first nuclear event, right? So the new strategic nuclear triad is you have SLBMs, right? Submarine launch ballistic missiles. You have submarines around the world. Then you have the, you know, SAC, strategic air command, I think, right? Where you have strategic bombers that are flying around constantly in case something happens. And then you have ICBMs, right?

So intercontinental ballistic missiles, right, that capability. So my thesis advisor, I was at the Kennedy School, was Dr. Ash Carter. He ultimately became Secretary of Defense in the Biden administration. But when he was younger, he was working in the DOD, and he was working for Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger. And they were looking at other transportation modes to make sure that to ensure the survivability of the nuclear deterrent. So he looked at everything.

And one of the craziest things he looked at, I'm just saying this because he just walked in the room one day and he just like blurted this out and we're like, what the fuck? So they looked at putting these things. So MX missiles, right? So MX missiles that had like a Merv on the end, which is multiple independent reentry vehicle. So like I think Minuteman threes at the time, which is you launch the missile and then it separates into multiple nukes that are interiors. independently target. Yes. Right.

So one of the things that they looked at was putting these things on airships. Or, in other words, Goodyear Blimps. Yeah. I like that. It seems like a really bad idea. Yes. Right. Well, it's even worse than you think it is.

So, you know, he did his due diligence and called like the Goodyear Blimp company. And, like, how safe are these things? And they're just like, well, every year we collect. hundreds of rounds of like rifle rounds because Bubba's sitting on his porch in like rural Ohio and it's just like I think I can hit it right and yeah they take shots at these things so obviously as far as I know we didn't we didn't imagine what Abdullah is doing when they fly over yeah so obviously it was they they rolled it out I'm assuming yeah assuming yeah I hope so Jesus Christ anyway so where was I going with this what were we talking about?

Well, we were talking about Epstein. Yeah. And we were coming back to that. And I don't want to lead question you here because I want to see if you're going somewhere without me saying. But what was the context of you talking about him? Just a layer of control. Oh, yes.

Yes. Okay. So before I get to what I'm thinking of, you know, I agree with you that he is almost like a door into the house rather than the house itself. Right. And I've cited a lot of times what Tucker Carlson says. about there being like a supra government i think he's spot on with that and it's like for people who haven't heard me say this a million times it's like the layer we used to think was the top which is

like the president and the most powerful heads of states and the most powerful powerful heads of industry around the world is actually layer three and above them are two you know billionaire and gazillionaire classes at the top you have your silent banking families and stuff like that who really actually pull the strings you mentioned the rockefellers the raw child's families like this. And then in between them, you have a fixer class of elite, very wealthy, billionaire individuals who work for those people and basically are the messengers to the real people below who are the figureheads. And so the way I've always looked at it is Jeffrey Epstein was just a rich Mike Ermintraught. Walter White thought he was fucking in control of everything.

Then Mike Ermentrop would roll up in a Lincoln Town car, listen to Walter White rant for 30 minutes, slap him like a bitch, and remind him who the boss was. But Mike Ermentrault wasn't the top of it He had to go report to Gus Frank And other guys who were really really running things And I think I think you're right about that With respect to Epstein Because it's like, okay, here's this awful guy

Sex trafficker, obviously pedophile Arms dealer Fucking currency hunter You name it He's doing all these different things But like it's not just for he wasn't seeing all the money coming from that Where is it all going?

This is survivorship bias Right? Survivorship bias Yeah so People assume I mean, it's just like with, like, UAP abductions, alleged, right? Like, there are a lot of people that just disappear. All we're seeing is the people that come back.

Right. Right. So same, and I won't go on that route, but same thing with Epstein. We're only seeing, like, what's been, like, the person that screwed up, right? He messed up. He wasn't very good at what he was doing, right?

We think he was good at who he was doing, but he got caught, right? How many people didn't get caught? right so i think that there is this level of control that we don't see because if you look at the the symptoms or the the outcomes that's coming out of this right if you try to put a rational spin on them right none of it makes any any fucking sense right so just take the events of the last five years, for instance, right? So globally, you have this massive aging population with the baby boomers, right, which threatens to destabilize kind of the economies of the world

because they have to be supported by fewer and fewer workers, okay? At the same time, you also have, you know, people consuming a lot more resources. You have AI coming into space, at kind of the exact time necessary, you have all these 22 million illegal immigrants seemingly flooding into the country. You have, without going into it, you can probably surmise when I'm talking about psychological sterilizations. Psychological sterilizations. You've convinced people to do things to themselves so that they can't have children, right? Everything is based on all this stuff kind of drives toward one conclusion. That's depopulation in some sense.

Yeah. Okay. You know, you had kind of MRNA. Just leave it at that, right? That just comes just at the right time. And also it comes at a time when you need all these data centers that are going to increasingly drain power from the grid and you're going to have to choose between AIs and humans, right?

You're also going to, you know, you're going to have a, a huge rest of population that doesn't have jobs, right? And it's not like the people at the bottom. It's the people who can plot and make things happen. Yes. Right. Well, how do you handle that? How are you going to be ready for that?

And do you see our political class, like, proactively coming up with any solutions for this? Other than what you are seeing kind of happen in real time? Like, why do you import all these people? So you can drive wages down and, you know, get rid of the, the population that, you know, consumes more resources. That's why it happened in the United States and not China. And that's what's crazy is when you look over the past 30 years, I'll just leave it at that. Again, pure spec, pure spec. I, listen, I think there's a lot on there that you have a lot of

data for, though, to prove it. Like with just the immigration thing, when you look at the past 30 years, this is something that at different points, the Republicans and Democrats have been at fault for in ways. And obviously the parties change over time and figureheads and stuff like that change over time. But it feels very, very coordinated in that way because they also make the regular immigration system so broken. So they incentivize that to happen. Well, even, I mean, just take the latest like Iran war. Like, what are the downstream impacts of that going to be? Crazy.

Well, like 25% of U.S. farmers don't have the fertilizer, particularly nitrogen-based fertilizer that they're going to need for the harvest in the fall. Right. So what's going to happen? with that? Well, you're going to have the United States, it won't necessarily, I mean, it all depends on how the summer goes, right? If you have a dry summer, it could be really bad, right? So in the United States, it'll probably manifest itself by just even more food inflation, things like that. But, you know, probably enough to have people kind of creeping into other people's homes to try to find food. You know, it could get really bad. You're going to have other places like Bangladesh, Pakistan,

Africa, kind of areas in Africa where there's going to be mass starvation, right? Just because you're tweaking. Yes. I mean, otherwise, the war doesn't make any goddamn sense. No. Right? And again, like, I did my master's thesis on this fucking thing 20 years ago. On Iran.

Yeah. What was the genesis or the idea behind your thesis besides just like Iran itself? Well, so stepping all the way back, what I wanted to do is we were looking at a non-prolifer, kind of nuclear non-proliferation. right like the dominant US not dominant but US strategy at the time was you went as few countries having nuclear weapons as possible because it just increases the probability of nuclear accidents and misperception etc and at the time we I looked at kind of two futures right and there's like kind of three possibilities there's a diplomatic solution I and there's kind of that's plan A plan B is what I looked at which is you either coerce them from not getting the bomb

or you learn to live with an Iranian bomb. And again, at the time, you know, I had different notions of the Israeli government. I thought they were really allies and I bought into all the propaganda. Okay. So like if I redid it today, my master's thesis would be,

how do we disarm Israel? Because if you really care about nonproliferation, they shouldn't have a bomb, right? Interesting. But back then, I was looking at, you know, How do we prevent the Iranians from getting it? Well, you got to, well, with Israel, you have to get them to admit they have one to start with, even though we know they do. We just do the same thing we did with Iraq.

We just go to the U.N. and show. Right? I mean, we know it's like Savannah River plutonium that's in there. Like, we know all this stuff. We've known since 67. Right. That's wild. But what I did is I looked at, so if we were to get the bomb, or sorry, if we were to prevent them from getting the bomb, there were different stages.

There was kind of the political component that would do. dovetail in the economic component, and then you'd have military options. Okay. So on the political component, it was like asset freezes, like we did to the Russian oligarchs, travel bans and stuff like that on key Iranian officials, and that would dovetail into economic sanctions. So I just systematically went into all their inputs or, sorry, imports and exports, figured out which country supplied them, and then just came up with a map of who in the, because most of it was supplied by the European Union at the time.

and then just provided a blueprint for where you would go to which country and say, hey, just turn this off, turn that off. It's been a while. And then after that, it was kind of what are some of the military options. So I looked at various precedent campaigns that we would have. There was kind of the like single bombing strike, right, on one place, which is like the Osiric reactor bombing that the Israelis did in 1981. Okay.

Right, where they bombed Iraq? You know about that, right? Not ringing a bell. Yeah, there's a book, I forget what it's called. There's not a lot about it, but they had to put all these extra fuel tanks on an F-15. Let's look this up. 1981 Israeli Yasserat. Is that what you said it's called? Osirak. It's like O-S-I-R-A-K. It's the Osiric reactor. I don't think I'm familiar with that. All right. So also known as Operation Babylon was a surprise air strike conducted by Israel.

Israeli Air Force on June 7, 1981, which destroyed an unfinished Iraqi nuclear reactor located 17 kilometers southeast of Baghdad Iraq. The Israeli operation came a year after the Islamic Republican of Iran Air Force had caused minor damage to the same nuclear facility in operation scorched sword, with the damage having been subsequently repaired by French technicians. Operation Opera and related Israeli government statements following it established the Began doctrine, I guess after Monoccombegan, the prime minister, the Beggen Doctrine, which explicitly stated the strike was not an anomaly, but instead of precedent for every future government in Israel. Israel's counterproliferation preventative strike added another dimension to his existing policy

of deliberate ambiguity as it related to the nuclear weapons capability of other states in the region. So that's one potentially looked at. There's also the, I don't know if it's up plan fifth. 5027 or out plan 5026? Can you actually look that up? It's O.P. Plan. Got it. Operations Plan 5027 are a series of military operations made by the United States and South Korea for the defense against a popular North Korean invasion? So try 5026 then. I think it's the other one. So that's not. Because this is still in Iran we're dealing with for 26? No, this is this is North Korea. Oh, it is. Yeah, but it's like our plan 5027 is there we go. Okay. So. So 5026 has been associated in the available literature with surgical strikes against North Korea

that would take out crucial targets but would not constitute the initiation of a major theater war. One scenario for dealing with North Korea's nuclear program would consist of surgical strikes against facilities believed to be involved with the production, storage, and deployment of nuclear weapons. Such strikes might resemble the Israeli preemptive strike on the Iraqi-Oceric nuclear reactor in 1981 using B-2 stealth bombers and F1, 7.4. stealth fighters in the United States could strike multiple targets throughout North Korea, including the repossessing facilities at Young Bonn. The deployment of F-117s for the 49th fighter wing to South Korea and the deployments of B-52s and B-1Bs to Guam brought a significant degree of capability to the region that might have been handled, that might have handled contingencies.

We almost did this in 94. Really? So, again, my thesis advisor, Ash Carter, was the one that I believe he wrote this plan. Oh, wow. And the reason that they had to be very careful with it is I think they were considering using tomahawk missiles to hit the Yung-Bion reactor. But they had to hit it in such a way that it would entomb the uranium. Otherwise, there would have been like a radioactive plume that would blow south into South Korea.

Whoa. So, and I think the only reason we didn't do anything, I think Jimmy Carter, like, flew in the last minute and came up with an agreement and it didn't happen. So anyway, I looked at those kind of campaigns. As a, you know, precision strike was kind of what that scenario was. But the Iranians had already spread their entire program throughout all of Iran. So you couldn't strike one target. So when Trump did Midnight Hammer, I'm like, I know we didn't destroy their nuclear program.

They even like, like, Boucher still has a reactor, et cetera, et cetera, right? So I thought it was just theater. And, you know, I was like, thank God. You thought we weren't going back. Yeah, I was hoping we weren't going back Yeah, I was hoping too, but I thought it was just theater I thought it was just like, well, it had to be theater because they didn't, you know, they didn't bomb that many

targets it didn't seem because this thing would have to be sustained. Why would they publicly come out and say we've removed the threat of their nuclear weapon when they know in the back of their minds they didn't and they probably knew in the back of their minds, yeah, we're going to do this. Because Julian, they always tell us the truth

and they, you know, you know, they just got that one wrong at that time. Yeah. Even for him, this one's a stretch, you know? Yeah. So anyway, like, you could rule out the precision strike. The next one was kind of what happened, which is the comprehensive bombing campaign. And that's something that the precedent for that would have been the Kosovo campaign that we had.

Oh, yeah. So you just looked at that. But, and this is where it gets kind of weird. So I did this. I'll just put a pin in this one. because what happened was I did this master's thesis. So then Ash Carter and former defense secretary, why am I?

Perry, they had an organization called the Stanford Harvard Preventive Defense Project. Right. So they decided to have like a meeting in D.C. to talk about all this stuff. And I got to go and just be a fly on the wall. That's cool.

We'll get back to that because something was said there that subsequently. became really creepy. So the third thing that I looked at was like an invasion, right? And I immediately ruled out like conquering Iran. And why did you do that? Because it was absolutely retarded. Like it made absolutely like, I mean, could we win?

Sure. But it would be like World War II where everybody gets drafted and needs to go in. But I didn't spend any time. But what I did look at was this thing I called the, and I'm not hearing it at all. I don't see it at all on social media, which leads me to believe that it's still a viable option. So what I looked at was something called the Kuzestan Gambit. And what that is is there's an area of southern Iran, south, western Iran, that is where the majority of their Arab population is, because, you know, Iran has made up of many different ethnic groups. Yes.

But there's a concentration of Arabs there. And it's right across the border from Kuwait. It's about 9,800 square kilometers, which is, I don't know, maybe 10 times the size of the state of Rhode Island, something like that. That's where the majority of Iranian oil assets are. To this day? So unless they have some more offshore platforms or things like that. But the method would be, well, you don't have to seize Iran. you just take their oil assets and hold them hostage.

And even then, I said, this is insane. Like, it would be a Hezboa summer. Like, it would be absolutely, extremely fraught with risk. But at the time, we also had people in the region. And the drone thing, we were the only ones that had drones, right? And that one thing kind of changes the whole calculus on all of this, right? Because I think we had, what, 16 bases, mostly destroyed? Right?

It's only now coming out, but those of us following, kind of knew that would be the case because they weren't and anybody. Isn't that surreal too? It's like I'm not, nobody likes the Iranian regime, but like you bomb them what the fuck you think they're going to do? Sit there and be like, thank you, man, please have some more. That's basically what our officials were saying. Like, oh my God, you.

I'm just like, guys, what do you expect? Like, they've had, they've had one problem to think about for 30 fucking years. And they thought about it. And they, like, we didn't even. my understanding is we had like three or four mind sweepers that weren't even in the region when we started bombing like what are you doing yeah like this is the geo strategic jugular like this in my opinion is the greatest unforced strategic error in american history you know with each passing day that goes by you're looking more and more right about that and i had treat a parsing here

for episode 382 a few weeks before the war broke out and he gets all kinds of shit online because people try to say he's like a shill for the regime which if he knew his story is fucking ridiculous

but you know it's not to say treat is right about every single thing that said by the way the regime like knows who I am because I wrote that fucking report because of that report

they don't like me yeah they don't like me right great like they started following me on powerful Iran started following me on Twitter and weird stuff like that's awesome did they follow you in here

I doubt it They're not in the room with us right now? It's just 20 years ago. Not show. Where are you from, pal? You just came off the street yesterday. If you're IRGC, I'm going to throw you out that fucking window. It was 20 years ago.

And look, I'm no, like, I'm no fan of the Iranians either. But. You have to be a realist. Remember we were talking about stuff that don't make sense? Uh-huh. And, like, what would you need to do to starve a bunch of people and reduce the population? This is a pretty good... It's a pretty good fucking thing.

Yeah. And everything, strategically speaking, almost, I'll say almost everything that Trita said a few weeks before the war is exactly how it played out. And then I talked to him, God, this was probably because the war broke out on like that Friday night, Saturday morning. I remember I talked to Trita. It was the day before I went to Colorado. So that Thursday. So literally like 30 hours before we invaded. And every fucking prediction he had about what would go wrong here is true.

So over the years, people would sometimes reach out to me because that, look, whenever, I have a friend who worked in intelligence at one point. And he said he asked a bunch of people for good research on that problem, on the Iranian problem. And he said, everybody sent him that. So it's like it's out there. And from time to time, like, you know, I have a friend who was a planner and worked on this. So. Worked on the active campaign right now. Well, like probably several versions before that.

Got it. But in the last, I'll just, I'll leave it vague. Somewhat recently. The bottom line is the defense department worked through all this stuff. Like warned said this is like everything that's happening, they warned during like war gaming and things like that. Like this is exactly how they saw it. And the bottom line is the longer it goes on, it just keeps getting worse.

Yes. Like, that's the conclusion. That's what I can say. And there are other things, too, that were recommendations that were made. Like, maybe we should have some more fiber optic cables so that, you know, this equipment's more survivable. And they're like, well, it's too expensive. So, like, but no one really took seriously that someone would be dumb enough to do this. Because Bibi Netanyahu's been telling, you know, president since 1985.

They're two weeks away. Yeah, they're two weeks away for 30 years. Yeah. Right. They're more two weeks away now. away now than they were two weeks fucking five years ago. Just don't forget that matter. Well, here's the thing. They're closer than ever because if I'm Pakistan or China, it's like, you know what, this is, I need to have access to my oil resources. So why don't I just do a little

AQCon light and just give you a bomb? Yep. That's what I mean, that's what I would do. Because this, I mean, this is, this is pure insanity, pure insanity. It's like you have to, like, I'm not in those rooms making those decisions. And it's obviously, extremely high octane and you can't fully simulate in any way, shape, or form what it's like in there. But on a general level, you have to operate in a world that's not a utopia because it's not, man. There are always going to be countries that are fucking evil, that do evil shit, that don't like you either, that you got to live with because the alternative is worse. And we are seeing that play out in real time. And to your point, anyone with half a brain who had looked at this, let alone someone

who wrote a thesis on it 20 fucking years ago, could see that. And there's just like a handful of people in there that decided, la, la, la, la, la, I see now. But even the math doesn't make sense, right? We produce, what, seven to eight interceptors a month? Mm-hmm. Right?

The Iranians have, like, tens of thousands of ballistic missiles, and then even use their best missiles yet, right? And, I mean, you kind of alluded to this already, but geographically, it's a nightmare. Yeah, well, it's a nightmare. In Khorstan, it's flatter, right? It's before the mountains start.

And that's one... I'm not saying we should do that. Right. I'm just saying. But that's one spot, though. When you look at the rest of it, you have enormous mountain ranges covering areas. You have the unlike Afghanistan, I forget the numbers in Afghanistan. So I don't want to say that.

But like, you have 93 million people here in Iran. It's bigger. There are some people that support the regime. It's not like fucking 100 to zero or anything like that against it. And more of them support it since we've been bombing. That's exactly right. And that's the other thing, too. Like, it just, we didn't even try to sell it.

to the American people. It's just like the arrogance of, no, we're just going to do that. Like, what? So going back to that meeting. So we have this, we had that meeting. We're discussing it. And again, where you're a fly on the wall.

Where I'm a fly on the wall. And the people present the meeting, I think like William, Secretary William Perry was there. Ash Carter was there. A bunch of Iranian experts were there, like people from like the Carnegie Endowment and various other kind of think tanks with, who were Iranian experts.

And I was tasked to kind of invite people who were experts in the problem. But there's some people that showed up that I didn't invite. And there was this, you won weapons inspector. His name was David Kay, right? I don't know if you remember him, but he was a weapons inspector. And he just showed up. Yeah, he was part of this meeting. So we're just talking about this comprehensive bombing campaign.

And, you know, we're talking about, you know, Ash Carter's like, well, once you start bombing, you can't stop. because it's like mowing the lawn. Like you have to stop them from reconstituting the program. And once you cross that line, like it never stops. So David K. Just randomly pipes in. Well, if we start bombing,

we should do it during the day. And I'm, you know, I'm a former army officer. Like, we own the night. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? So Ash Carter, who's, you know, much more, or I mean, he's sadly passed. I think pretty, a few years ago. But, you know, he's much more refined than I am.

You know, Road Scholar, like, you know. And he says, so that's interesting. Why would you bomb during the day? And without skipping a beat, David Kay says, to kill their scientists. Two years later, remember those motorcyclists who would roll in, put a sticky bomb in the window? That started happening.

So I'm not saying that's where decision was made but like this stuff was swirling about in those in those circles for a while before that started happening but yeah it was at the willard hotel the shadow of the white house you're just in there like witnessing war games history yeah but again did you hand out your thesis to everyone like print it was it was part of the required reading materials oh they put it in the required reading materials yeah oh you're like that i was just flying the wall man I'm just, you know. Fly on the wall.

Here to observe, sir. What else do you know about this invasion that you're not saying right now? No, I, it's literally I just surveyed and talked to people and that's what they, but notice, like, if you look for that on Twitter, like that word, you don't see it. Which word? Cusistan. You don't see it. Why don't you see it? You see Carg Island, some bullshit.

Like, you imagine seizing Carg Island? It's completely exposed, right? Anybody who tries to seize it, yeah, it could easily seize it. But then you would just be completely exposed, not dug in, and you'd be confronted by a hail of Iranian missiles and drones and this and that. That's the one key variable that's changed is this, like, mass production of drones since the time I wrote this thesis. And that changes everything. Oh, yeah. We're back.

We're back to, like, the, kind of World War I when, like, the Germans and the Russians were thinking about how to employ tanks in combat, right? And the French were like, oh, let's put a tank in every, you know, infantry battalion, this and that. And it was the Germans like Heinz Kudarian who said, no, we got to put them in concentration. And we, I think the same is going to be true with drones. So, I mean, we're seeing it play out. Look at how the attacks are going down. Which is, which is scary, too, because the Russians, like, you know, in February 2020, you know, the U.S. military could have run through them, like, shit through a goose.

Yeah. Now, they learned. They've learned how to employ drones in combat. Yeah, I've had in a couple high-level drone guys this year, ex-military guys running drone companies. Jesse Hamill had him in for a couple episodes, had Brandon Seng in recently. They're both working with AI doing it.

And like they were using the example of the shit that happens in the Russia-Ukraine war with the deployment of drones and just how much it runs the whole battle. field and that's and they're like that's been going on since the inception the inception of that war and they're telling me this like brandon was here maybe a couple weeks after iran broke out but then jessie was here a month before that happened a month and a half before that happened and they're like yeah all any war that breaks out right now that's the delta right there like who's got more effective use of that from like a i guess like a surveillance capacity and from a straight up payload capacity Was it Brandon who was on the drone company?

They both do. Jesse Hamill has a company called Invictus AI. Or is that what it's called? Victus. And then Brandon has one called X, Shield X or X, I forget. I think he's the one who said that they couldn't go rogue like they had it. They had like things locked down so that the drones couldn't go road. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's right.

I think what's going to happen is that, you know, military terminology, every like army officer is going to know what I'm talking about and nobody else will. The Oudal Loop is going to drive the cycle. So it's like a observe, orient, decide, act, right? So these are like cycles when you're dealing with with an enemy, right? The person, like, if you're, you're, you're dealing with an enemy, right? the person, like, if you can get inside their Oudoloup, which means your decision cycles tighter, you win, right? So, you know, they joke, you know, I'm inside your Oudolup, whatever. So what I think is going to drive adoption of these things

is people are going to figure out that AI is going to be infinitely faster in getting inside these Oudal loops, that the winner or the person who becomes paramount in these kind of drone wars is going to have to, get to that conclusion. It's going to get to that conclusion faster than everybody else, which then if you extract that back, what about nukes? Right. What are we thinking about that? Right. So this stuff is, you know, extremely scary. Same thing with cyber, right? You're going to have AI hacking. You're going to have counter AI and you're going to have this red queen hypothesis, right? Predator prey constantly evolving to the point we're not going to be able to recognize what the

how they're doing. What if we're already in it and we don't know it? We probably are. We probably are. We probably are. What makes you say that? Because I'm not, I can't be the first person having these ideas, right? And there are people whose full-time job is to think about these ideas. I'm sure somebody probably, I mean, you just like read science fiction, right? I'm sure people, I mean, remember Terminator, right? Like that was what, 1980 that book came out? And it was a Harlan based I think on a Harlan I mean there was some lawsuit and all this stuff but Harlan Ellison probably wrote that in like the 60s right so let me get the second layer of that question then do you think that if that is the case and we're already in it were things that we can't see with technology that we cannot conceive is already controlling outcomes that are predetermined that we have no idea of predetermined are we therefore in a simulation that's run by an AI god hopefully run by a human well I don't know if hopefully is the word but maybe run by a human. I really hope that's not true, but if you're talking Occam's Razor, right, the simplest explanation tends to be the explanation, that's the simplest, that explains everything,

right? It could be used to explain literally everything, right? Why these UAPs don't appear to follow the known laws of physics, this and that. If it were a simulation. Would it explain why I chose to put you in seat 26D today on your flight or yesterday versus like seat 29? F. Yeah, probably. That's why you have like, I mean, again, I don't want to believe this hypothesis because I think it's, I don't like it at all. But it would explain why you have like weird synchronicities sometimes, right?

Synchronicities. Yeah. So when I was talking to Dean Radin, people who meditate, right? This is like well known in Eastern philosophy. Westerners don't. Like when people start to meditate, weird stuff starts to happen, right? And in the Eastern tradition, they call them cities. So S-I-D-D-H-I-S.

And they're just like signs that you're on the path to enlightenment. You're not supposed to indulge in them. You're supposed to say, gee, that's interesting and then move on. But the way that they start is you start to have these like synchronicities. Then you start to have, you know, kind of versions of remote viewing. Not remote viewing, but like psychic sensing some sort. precognition. But when people meditate, they start to have these things. And they're like, especially with the Westerners, are like, what the hell is going on? Am I going crazy? And no, it's just part of the

way that reality works. However that reality manifests. So like a synchronicity would be, I'll give you a real world example. And I'll give you names too. So there's a experiencer's names James Ian Doley. And, you know, I know this guy. I've definitely talked about. I actually he's probably he's like in this he lives like New York area isn't he engaging the phenomenon yes that's exactly yeah yeah I've talked with him before yeah yeah good good good good good good actually he gets interviews with like people I can't get interviews with like Jim semi-van who mm-hmm that guy he was a little I have a lot of trouble getting on like former intelligence officials like a lot of like it's not the worst thing in the world did

for you but why did but listen I've had one guys guys in the past before I even thought about any like shit. There's some I do I get on, but I turn down a lot of them. Oh, so they reach out to you. Oh, yeah, because like that's the thing. And like, that's where people in the audience are right to like question like, why are something fucking Intel guys on all these shows and shit? So like we have a Kyriaku who's like a dissident.

I think that's very different. But the range goes from like. But is he though? I do think so, yes. That would actually break my heart if he wasn't. One thing that they do. and this is take curiaku out of this

is in wrestling you're familiar with K-Fabe right the hero and the heel right it's all fake but there's like a good guy and there's a bad guy so like in this field

let's say I'm not I'm probably shouldn't use names but use names you're in Jersey but who's the guy who's in charge of Arrow or was in charge of Arrow

like Sean Kirkpatrick right yeah he's the heel right and then you take someone look he may be legit He may not. I don't know. I'm just using this as a for instance. Okay.

Pure spec. I love that you're using pure spec. That's great. So Travis Taylor. Okay. Like he's like the hero, right? Doing Skinwalker Ranch stuff. Like making sure.

But are they really, you know? Oh, or is it plant? Yeah. No? Yeah, it's an extremely valid question. I think. So when I look at, like the range is like John to Boostamante, right? Oh, no.

I'm thinking exactly this. And I'm friends with both of them. Yeah, I know. I know. And I've had both of them on the show a bunch. But, like, you know, one thing I do appreciate about Andy is, like, he lets me keep it real with him on camera and off camera, like, since day one. And, like, if he's got a job to do, which I think he does, he does his thing. I do mine.

It's not like he's like, you know, he's just contracting, right? It's like public diplomacy. That's right. A little public diplomacy for the CIA. They need that too. That's right. And then when he goes against a John, it doesn't go so well because people see through the art. arguments because that's and that's why I really do believe like part of the reason I really do

believe John really is a dissident is because listen they talk about sheep dipping and putting people through shit. Oh yeah. I got a brother. I got a story about that. I want to hear your story about that in a second but I will say this about John Kyriaku. People are always blown away by the level of shit they put him through based on what he can say publicly. If people knew the shit that he says privately about what they put him through. If he was sheep dipped, he's an alien, bro. Because the first time I ever recorded with John at the end, we recorded for six hours, did two episodes, 249 and 250. I, you know, we had talked a bunch off camera as well. He had told us a bunch of the other things that he can't ever say publicly. Yeah. And by the way, I'm not saying

he is or isn't. I'm just throwing it out there. But I said to him, what we talked for a half hour off camera, kind of wrapped all that stuff up at the end. And I said to him, I said to him, I said, you know, John, I'm so happy you're finally doing pretty well and like living somewhat of a normal life and being able to tell your story and things like that because, you know, I pride myself on being a very mentally strong individual. I'm not going to lie though, man. I don't know that I wouldn't off myself with the last, like I referred to the last thing he said that he can't say publicly. I'm like, that is so beyond the pale and so bad that if that had happened to me after all these other things that happened to me, you know, I might have given up.

And I think if other people out there knew what it was and I hate to be that guy not saying it, he'd say the same thing. Even his public story, even his public story. Oh, it's horrible. They did him dirty. They did him dirty as fuck. That was bad. Yeah. Yeah. But if they knew the real shit, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, that would be a next level commitment to roll if he's doing that. And he's also not exactly helping the quote unquote narratives, I guess. If, if you will, but you said you had a sheep dipping story. Yeah. So look, take this for great, because kind of the, the anatomy of it too, is sometimes you

will have episodes that inextricably don't perform. And maybe they just sucked, right? Let's put that out there. Sometimes. Yeah. Maybe they just sucked, okay? So perfectly willing to admit that. But I interviewed a guy who was a PJ, right?

PJ. So, like, special tactics. like the Air Force Special Forces. Okay. They're not special, like Special Ops. Not Special Forces. Special Forces is very specific army, etc. But he's a special ops guy.

They go in and they rescue, like part of the same sort of unit that they kind of rescued the pilots that were. Right. That's their, you know, exclusive mission. And there's, you follow the, uh, the love eggs like UAPs, like. Like the Jake Barber stuff? Yeah. Find the little eggy. Yeah.

Yeah. Not buying it. I'm not buying it either, but here's why. So around the time that he claims to have gone to scuba school, right, there's this guy interviewed his name's, I want to say it's like Scott Pearson. I'm like, I'm blanking right now. But it just didn't do that well because he, you know, he talked about his special, special ops experience.

And he like literally fell from an aircraft and his parachute didn't open. He had to recover from all that. but he also had an experience where he saw, you know, something, UAP in the sky, he's taken photos of it, published a book on it. It looks kind of like a plasma sort of thing. But anyway, he was a scuba school instructor at the time Jake would have gone through. He's like, I didn't, this guy, maybe I'm wrong, but this guy was not at scuba school at the time he was, and he was not in the pipeline because he would have known if he was

the pipeline. So I'm not saying that's a hundred percent chance that he was sheeped it, but high probability. That was also one of the fakesest looking videos I've ever seen. Like I've seen somewhere I'm like, all right, maybe my mind's just telling me that's fake, but let me be open to it. That one, I looked at that. I mean, it, it looked like a fucking, what's the, were those machines at, at, at, at, yeah, like the, it looked like a claw machine. at like a fucking carnival. Yeah, look, I could be completely wrong. Like, there's none of this stuff is never 100%.

Yeah, it's never, never. But I didn't even, I just kind of cut that off. Yeah, we're just pure speck in it. That's fine. That's fine. But you have to decide, like, some guests, I'm like, I don't know, like this guy's. Right. That's always, I'm glad you said that because that's always been my theory.

And I've talked about this a lot publicly. I'm like, I'd rather everyone out there get someone on camera for three hours where you at home can hear them talking rather than them sitting somewhere saying things and you wonder what they're saying and decide for yourself whether it's 80% bullshit or 100% bullshit. And then why that might be. You know, it's kind of like we get to be a lens into the audience. And like even Andy, like Andy says some things that are backed by evidence sometimes. I'm like, you know what? I don't want to hear that. That's fair. And then he'll say some other things and I'm like, that's straight out of Langley. Okay, discard that, keep that. And that's

fine to me. Like, that's part of the job. But I feel like if, you know, if you just start bringing all these guys on and whatever, it turns everything turns cloudy because you don't know. Well, that's why you can't, like, unless my personal bar for this is, there's a difference between belief and knowledge, knowledge you have to experience, right? Like, you actually have to see it work from what you've been exposed to, right? Whereas, and the other thing, too, is there's, like, the government has been lying to us about so many different things that, like, the only reason I believe the Civil War happened is because I have, like, a great-great-grandfather's discharge papers. Right? Right?

Like, I know what happened because I have these discharge papers at home from, like, or not, I don't have them. My father's got on. Right? Like, you have to question everything. Like everything's a freaking, like, you know, five years ago, if somebody said like the Nazis won World War II, I'd be like, you're crazy. And now I'm like, I don't know. It's fucking crazy, man. I mean, probably not, but, you know.

You know what? And that's the thing about history, though, too. And this is something you always got to keep in mind. It's never going to be 100% of what's reported. History is always written by victors. I always use this example. I studied the shit out of the American Revolution. Those guys were amazing.

They did a lot of great things. But like, there's some narratives in there where it's like, they play dirty sometimes too. And sometimes that stuff gets reported and then it doesn't make it to the three-hour documentary people watch. It's just a footnote. Yeah, remember like Benedict Arnold, right? This guy won victory after victory and they didn't fucking pay him. Not only that, they charged him. Yeah.

They charged him. And again, what he did is wrong. Correct. And I've studied Benedict Arnold like crazy. What he did is wrong. He's a traitor. That all bit is true. but like he was a weaker man than a lot of the other guys for sure and that's what did him in

the idea though that he just became a traitor and woke up one day and said you know i think i'll go to the british that is not what happened yep you know and there were times where they could have had his back on certain things including when he got shot in a battle and then got no credit for it you know like the like this is exactly it so i'm all about my whole thing is because we can pull on strings and find out that certain things aren't true, it should not therefore make us become the, what's, why am I forgetting the word starts with a C? The, not counterpoint, but the, Jesus Christ, I'm like very hazy today. Sorry people. But you shouldn't automatically assume the complete opposite, right, is what I'm saying. Right. Like the answer. It's probably some, like,

third way that, yeah, the way it happened. Yes. Yeah. But like, to your. point you can't just assume that like the narrative that built every decade is what it is like there's messaging that occurs in every country i'll give you one i'll give you one right now because this is so ubiquitous and it's like that's that's that's not true so people keep saying we never found weapons of mass destruction in iraq we did biological chemical yeah 2400 sarin rockets and there's a there was an article i i have a friend who was an ied specialist who told me so so that's why i believe it but there's it was also an article in the new york times called the like secret chemical weapons of you know rock or something like that that reports

all this stuff and you can look it up uh and i think it was like october 2014 or something like that but you hear people saying routinely again they didn't have an active program that's correct but they had like stockpiles of this stuff still it's an important distinction because they're weapons of mass destruction. They're not nukes, though. And that's what, that's what it was marketed as. They have nukes. But yeah, Danny Hall was in here for episodes 216, 270. He saw them personally. Yeah. He was a tip of spear guy. I've had a couple other people verify that off camera as well. But if you listen to like NPR, like it's just like we, and the question is as well, if we, if he had them, why did the Bush administration not publicly kind of sing it from the rooftops?

So again, pure spec, but my belief on this is if you find some stockpiles of, yeah, that's definitely the article, if you find stockpiles littered through Iraq, but you didn't find all the stockpiles, the last thing you want to do is say, hey, we found these random stockpiles like in Iraq because the enemy goes and finds them and then uses them. So that would be what I would speculate about it. What about once it becomes public, though, now the enemy knows? Yeah. So how do you explain after that? I don't know. I think a narrative just becomes so embedded among people that they just lock in and then refuse to broker any other explanation. Right.

And I don't want to understate the seriousness of someone like Saddam having weapons like that. It was a matter of what... This isn't the best way. to put it, but it was sold as the Super Bowl and you were dealing with a Saturday college football game. I think that's part of the problem. You know, like they were like, he can end the world tomorrow with nukes. And it's like that was not the case. So that could, I don't know, pure spec, that could also play a role. I think what you say has a ton of validity. Another piece of it might be also like, yeah, we kind of oversold the fuck out of this. A lot of people died. The economy then crashed.

However, at least we tried to sell it. And this time we didn't even try to sell it. It was just like... Let's go. Yeah. Our greatest allies says two weeks away, so we got to do it. Fucking insane. And that's the thing, like since Joe Kent came out, follower of the show, by the way.

But, you know, since he came out and said all this stuff, he's been so far very vindicated with the things he said. And one of the, I think one of the most important things he said right away when he first resigned. was that, you know, every, he said it very well. He was like every country around the world is incentivized for their own interests. That's exactly how it should be. That's how we should be for us. Yeah, look, I don't have anything against Israel

for pursuing their national vital interests. Like, that's their national vital interests. Like, they're just behaving the way a country should behave. However, we accept it. We're not. Yeah. We're behaving like a country that has a parasite on its back that's directing it into places that don't improve

our vital national security interests. And frankly, we shouldn't be expending more treasure and lives in an area that... 100%. 100%. You're someone who's in the military who can speak to this first person with your friends and that whole era and everything. But like what he was saying is them acting in their own interests. One of the things they commonly do is share intelligence as biased towards what they want with us. And our people, as in our presidents, decide in some cases to believe their intelligence over our own that can directly contradict that. I'm not saying Mossad's not talented as hell. They are, but part of that talent is also fucking deception.

They're spies. And like you need to have enough for all the shit we righteously give CIA and NSA and all these places for the many evil things they do. When it comes to like the basic national security things where some people there are actually doing their fucking job, you should trust your own people here. Yeah. And that's and trust is a strong word. You should heed the advice of the intelligence.

back by pure evidence that we get over other places. What did Reagan say? Trust but verify. Exactly. Right? I think if you're Russians originally said it and you kind of just He took it, but that's okay. That's ours. That's fine. That's it's part of the Cold War rules, man, you know? What's it? Stealing is the greatest creation, something like that? The greatest is steal. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's all he's doing. It's okay. I got a pitch real fast. Yeah, I do too, actually. We'll be right back. We got a lot to get into. You think there's anything to the whole Epstein got his Zorro ranch because it's dangerously close to Los Alamos and some research going on out there?

Yeah, to put yourself in kind of the intelligence communities per view, right? It's the end of the Cold War. And you have all these nuclear scientists that don't have a lot to do. Right? And the Russians had the same problems, right, at the end of the Cold War. which is why, in fact, my thesis advisor, it was the Nunn Lugar program, which he was part of, which was the... Ashgar. Yeah.

It was to decommission, like, Russian... He's the reason that the Ukrainians didn't have nukes. That's the program that decommissioned it and to prevent kind of nuclear scientists from being hired away and working for these other governments. Like, they had that... It's probably the same thing that they had just on a smaller scale. Oh, that's interesting. these people out there doing this stuff. What I want to know is how the Zoro Ranch won the lottery. Yeah, isn't that fascinating? They're the luckiest place in America.

That's right. Just, you know, there are things, there are so many things that we think is fair and above board, and it's really not. That was why Julia Mossbridge was mentioned in the files. She wasn't in them, but her name was mentioned in an email unbeknownst to her between Epstein and someone else where the guy was joking about, yeah, to win the lottery, you'd have to be like Moss Bridge and just be able to know the numbers ahead of time or something like that. I'm like, you know, it's funny you say that now. Because what was it like $32 million or some shit like that? I can't remember.

What was the note? Can we find that? And how many times did he win it too? It was at least once. That we know of. That we know of. So I think like everything else, they can back rig this stuff. I'll give another example of that.

So you're familiar with Tom Drake because I think I don't know if you've interviewed An essay whistleblower. Yeah, I don't think you've interviewed him yet, right? No. So this is where it gets weird. So Tom Drake, he was a senior NSA official. Same similar kind of, was a whistleblower in this mass collection state. There were like two different versions that they were going to go look at and it was the one that they used was kind of the most illegal. Anyway, They threw the book at him too and went after him.

But he was associated with a, and this is like, I'm not making this up, this is absolutely real. And I'll get to the, it will make sense, trust me about things, kind of weaving on a kind of thing. I trust you. Okay. So he developed a friendship with this guy, Christopher Robinson, who's a precognitive dreamer. So this guy, and again, you do episodes with this guy, hardly gets any views. Whitley Streber actually just interviewed him. They hardly get any views.

It feels like there's like some likelihood he's algorithmically suppressed. But in Tom's capacity, as in NSA, he worked with this guy because this guy would have precognitive dreams. He had sold the Lockerbee bomber or bombing before it happened. De what bombing? Lockerbie bombing, which was over the UK. It was... Was that the subway one in 05? No, no, no.

It was an aircraft. Aircraft was bombed. So he saw it in a dream, and he had a prior relationship with Scotland Yard, M.I.5, MI6. So he had helped them foil IRA plots, all sorts of stuff from precognitive dreams. So he went to them and said, look, I know this is going to happen tomorrow. I want to put it in an affidavit. And they're like, are you sure you want to do that? You're going to get a lot of questions about like, how would you know this?

He's like, yes, I want to do this because I want to show like this. I want this documented. It's absolutely real. And it happened the next day, pretty much as he described it. Anyway, he had a pre, he was tied in to Tom Drake for whatever reason because of these, his intelligence value, et cetera. And to the point where. you know, because it's transatlantic chatter, all of it's being monitored by the NSA.

So when they were getting ready to prosecute Tom Drake, this guy, Christopher Robinson, has a precognitive dream about that song, like nine bottles of beer on the wall. And it was about nine bottles of beer. And he says, like, you're going to get nine charges, but you're going to beat everyone. And sure enough, I'm sure, like the FBI, NSA, we're listening to this conversation as they're investigating Tom Drake and ready to book him. And this precognitive dreamer from the UK tells him the stuff. Wow. So he saw this stuff. But the reason I'm talking about this is there are certain things about how things work that we think is fair and above board. The lottery is one of them, right?

Yeah, it was 85 million, by the way, not 32. Thief looked it up. Oh, he's a pretty, pretty lucky guy. Yeah, very lucky. So the first time I was interviewing this guy, or one of my interviews with Christopher Robinson, and I'm going to get into kind of YouTube administrivia, but you don't know what I'm talking about. You know, the engagement graph kind of comes down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes down like this. So I first interview him,

and the engagement graph has its normal kind of slope. It's down about 33%. Spikes to 98% spikes down for like a five-second segment. And then continues on. I'm like, what? Always to five-second segment. Exactly. Yeah.

So have you ever seen that? Yes. and you go back to the segments and see what they were talking about. Sometimes. Other times there's so many videos it's like. So he was just going through working for the UK and kind of their MI5, MI6, stuff like that. And he was just saying something, yeah, they can do a lot of things, they can do this and that. And then he says, or they can vote on behalf of somebody else and blah, blah, blah.

When he said vote on behalf of somebody else, that thing spiked. I didn't even notice it during the interview. at all. And I'm like, okay, well, well, that's an interesting thing to say. The thing is, like, we're not all, we're not on morons. Like, we notice things. So what's my theory behind that? Well, maybe somebody saw that. Like, oh, my God, and send it to a billion people and like, but no, I don't get that many views, right? I think there are systematic programs. Oh, yeah. That governments are running and they see they see or hear something and then a bunch of people look at it all right well is this a hundred percent do we have whatever so anyway that is the point of that story is that

there are many things in our civilization that we think are fair a fair and above board I'm not saying that's where the way it is in the United States but they did find that there was you know 1.5 million people in the voter rolls that were registered by one signature the same signature just recently things are weird things are definitely weird and i think that if there's one good thing that's a really dangerous term to use with this but there's one good thing to come from this whole like release of the epstein scandal is that there are now more people looking at things going oh shit's crazy there's some crazy motherfuckers that operate on a whole different wavelength and even if you don't know the full scope of it or not extremely well right on the case, you at least

know that at this point. And it's like a thing where people on the left and right agree about this aspect of it. Like, wait a minute. Some class warfare going on here in a very interesting way. You know, it could be a very unifying moment in the long run. If we do this right as a group of people, I kind of don't think we're going to, but I hope we do. You know, and I think you should question things for sure. Yeah, it's divide and conquer narratives. Yeah. Like, where people should be looking is not class warfare, not at each other, not left or right. They should be looking at the massive people and the elites. 100%.

Look up. Look up. Yeah. And what was the tagline of that 2019 movie, Don't Look Up? Yeah. Isn't that funny? Yeah. What was it the revelation of the method?

Something like that. That's like Kurt's always talking about thrown out there. Sometimes. I mean, he throws a lot of things out there. Yeah, you're trying to hit a curveball while hitting a slider while running the second base at the same time. And it's it does not go well, you know. Yeah, interviewing him is like riding a Bronco. There's no interviewing him.

I mean, it's like, you got a tiger's tail and, uh, first of all, you walk in here high as a kite because he smokes up the kitchen for like fucking a half hour before you walk in. Secondly, you know, he's the master. And like somehow it works. He's the master of starting. He never saw a sentence that he, he, he started that he couldn't shift halfway through before finishing. Oh, you didn't know that?

Yeah. Oh, no, I know it very well. You know that? You didn't know that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When he goes, oh, you didn't know it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nah, he's something else, man.

It's like almost those are podcasts I have to listen back to again to, like, fully appreciate it. Because in the moment, you're just like, like, playing that Jedi trick, like trying to just catch all the fucking ethersphere thrown around. Great experience, though. Yeah, it's Bob and we've. you know. That's right. You've got to be on balls of your feet. Otherwise.

That's right. Who knows where he's going to take? He's going to take you somewhere. You just want to like divert, deflect into a direction that, you know. And he'll readjust too. Like when he was going at Sunny Houston and then we pulled up the article. I think that was Hannah Cabrary.

He goes, oh, I apologize to Sunny Houston. Yeah, I look this issue of direction. It's like you just destroyed it for like, and then I think he came back. He's like, But she's still bubble. Oh my God. I was in pain.

Yeah, that was one episode that got age restricted. I didn't argue with YouTube when they did that. I almost spit on my coffee. Yeah, I was like, you know what? You got me. That's fair. You got me. No arguments here.

I appealed it. They immediately denied it. I did not take it farther than that. Whereas every other video that's ever been age restricted or frankly even demonetized before, I'm like the reasons you gave her wrong. Yeah. You got to, yeah, you got to, like, when he starts talking PDF files, you got to be like, it's, uh, rain in in, rain in in in, guys, raining in. Yeah.

Yeah, well, that was the other thing. We were pulling things up on the screen because he constantly had us doing that and there were some things. I'm like, oh, I would. Yeah, on second thought, I should have told Death maybe leave that one off camera. The thing is, the whole say crazy shit and then you'll pull it up and you'll be like, no, it's real. Yeah. Yeah, that's a real thing. Wow.

Yeah. It's not AI. He's like, it's not fucking AI, bro. Look at it. Those lips are real. What do you think of the whole disclosure thing they're doing, though, now? I love that reaction already, but please continue. I haven't been following this for that long,

but if you've, there are people who've been following this for 50 years, and it's like the same, the same thing. It's just like, let's release enough information so that the people in the inside don't feel like they're, you know, holding all this in and they feel validated and that's not and that. so they don't come out and disclose themselves. So actually, this will actually be a good time to talk about this. So you're familiar with the Soul Foundation?

Yes. Who was talking about this recently? Damn it. Can't remember. But go ahead, please. So, and you should be able to find this on the internet because somebody leaked it. There was a guy named Colonel Nell, right, who was a Army intelligence officer. And during the first Seoul symposium that they had, he showed.

showed up, he posted a campaign plan, right? Which was like, here are the wickets for certain things, areas of disclosure. It was like out until like 2030 and beyond. And I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was, it should be out on Twitter somewhere because somebody took a picture of it even though they said, don't release it, don't do this. And of course, my view was that was all orchestrated, right? It wasn't that somebody just didn't follow the rules because I was mad. I was just like this, like some like dip shit did this and like, you know, you're here as a, you know, out of the grace of this organization.

But I think it was staged. I think it was just like let's let's like fake like it's a release, but it's a real release. So that's out there. There's actually this kind of disclosure plan. I don't know whether it's real. I don't know if it's SIOP. But there are also things about they're very concerned with catastrophic disclosure. Right?

They want controlled disclosure where they can kind of drip out this stuff in a way that doesn't cause. They keep talking about ontological shock, this and that. I think what they have more things to worry about is how much they've lied to people about what the fundamental nature of reality is. And it could be that, again, this is all pure spec. Okay? Pure spec. Imagine if this, you know, you talked about quantum mechanics at the very beginning where people can, manifest their own realities, but it's part of this consensus system, right?

So you have people at the top that are trying to rigidly confine this consensus reality so it doesn't just go book wild. Right. And I think there may be some worry that if this is the way that Nate, again, pure spec, this is the way reality works in order to constrain it and keep things from, you know, stay puff marshmallow man. Like, are they even talking about that stuff back in the 1980s, right? right was that just like something to put out there and some weird you know he's looking at ziner cards and stuff like that and don't remember that with uh bill murray where they're sitting there with ziner cards there's little cards where they

Zener cards. They're called Xenar cards. And they're just, there's like five of them. There might be like a star, like a circle. And then, you know, someone's looking at them and across the table, a person's supposed to read your mind or whatever and tell you what the card is. There's a scene where Bill Murray's there with like this guy and this like hot chick. And the guy's like getting them right.

He's like, nope, wrong. Nope, wrong. And then the chick's getting them completely wrong. He's like, oh my God, you got it right again. Right? There's a whole scene like that. But there may be some effort to suppress that so that things don't, again, I'm not saying that's what it is, but that's one possibility. It could also be that Charles Fort, who was a guy way back in kind of the early, kind of late 1800s, 1900s, could be Earth is a farm.

A farm. A farm. What do you mean? Like a farm. Like we're a product by some non-human species that we don't see that operates in the shadows. Meaning we are actually free will individuals that are tinkered and fucked with in a way that we don't realize

or we are literally simulated like a video game? The first one. So we're a product. We're genetically engineered product and whatever we're doing somehow. Again, that's probably oversimplifying it and again, it's pure spec. No, that's what he said.

Charles Ford, the earth is a farm. We are someone else's property. What was he basing that on? Like just how he thought about it? It's just similar, similar things that like Keel was seeing, John Keel, Jacques Valet. Yeah. Because that's the other thing. We go back.

I talked earlier about Nathaniel Gillis. There are a lot of UFO encounters where there'll be multiple people. One person will see a UFO. Another person will see an angel, right? So it could be that there's some non-human species that just co-creates with you. in a sense, just taps into your mental model and will present something to you that you expect to see, which is why throughout history, right, in the, it was only kind of until kind of the late 1800s that people started seeing, quote unquote, like spaceships and aliens, stuff like that.

Before then you had like Ezekiel with just like angels and demons and, you know, in between you had with like John D. Anokian intelligences and, you know, the Fay, right? But the gin, right? But if you just ignore all that, the labels, the descriptions about how they operate and what they do are remarkably similar across the ages.

It's almost like whatever this intelligence is that hacks into us is using our own imagination. imagination to manifest. Right. And again, this is kind of what Nathaniel Gillis talks a lot about. That's fascinating. So that's why like over throughout history, you see as we evolve with the times, so does the this intelligence or the phenomena, right, is what what people would call it.

So I don't know. Where do you think AI fits into that? Do you think that's like a tool that was in this scenario? because it's just a scenario. Do you think that that would have been like a tool thrown into the animal farm for us or one that they just, that like watching ants put together a new fort,

if you will, that they expected us to make on our own and see what we did with it? So I think it's both. Both. So if you talk to a lot of inventors, things like that, a lot of times you'll ask them,

like, how did you come up with this? And they'll be like, I just had a dream. There was actually, like, you know, Prince, the artist was like just kind of bad shit crazy, right? Well, he used to, he would have an idea for a song and he would wake up like everybody on what is it, the new revolution or what the fuck? I don't know what they're called. But he would wake up everybody and said, like, we have to record this right now. Right now.

Otherwise, Michael Jackson will get it. But there might be some, you know, an element of truth to that, right? because these ideas tend to come at just the right moment or it appears to be just the right moment in history sometimes they're too early sometimes they're too late remember the newton right the newton yeah so like the apple and the tree shit yeah apple yeah so apple came up with the newton it was like a proto iphone different apple yeah it was like it was like a proto iphone but it just flopped it didn't Oh, yeah, this was, was this right before Steve Jobs came back? It's been a while since I read the biography.

Yeah, I can't remember if he, if it was before he came back or after he came back. But whatever it was, Apple put this thing out and it was, it just didn't. It didn't work. It didn't take off. Head of its time. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, to answer your question, I think when I say there's a little bit of both, I think that's the kind of the inspiration part.

Mm-hmm. That there's something that might be seating these. ideas in a way that's kind of outside the transceiver, right? Yeah. Whatever the, call it the metaphysical cloud. It's not a real thing. I'm just pure spec. But I think also, though, like we're the ones that are developing these things.

Now, did we get the idea from something that crashed somewhere, like in Roswell, right, which is another weird thing. You know that crash at the time that crashed happened? All five nuclear weapons in the world. world we're in that spot the 507 509 really yeah every nuclear weapon in the world i you know what i feel like james fox might have told me that that's that's crazy that's interesting right yes so and then i mean we didn't even go on to this but there's also the if you talk to um michael dr michael masters he's got the whole he's been here yeah time travel yeah so you know about the time travel element and again it could

be all the above it could be a simulation i don't know like i said i hate the simulation hypothesis But it's the one that easily explains everything if, you know, if you kind of force somebody to use it. But hopefully it's something broader than that. Hopefully we're not on a farm, but it feels that way. Yeah, I want to table for one sec, the whole distraction element here based on the timing of what they're currently saying, because that's where my head goes to with all this. But if you look at the actual rollout or idea of a rollout over time, everyone always talks about what you referenced. a few minutes ago with the ontological shock

and the things like that. And there's a couple things here. I saw a clip of Tim Dillon on Twitter on a recent episode talking about this and, you know, he's fucking awesome. And he's talking about the distraction angle which is extremely relevant. But then he went beyond that and he's like if you told everyone that fucking aliens existed tomorrow,

no one would give a shit. They'd go about their day. That I would disagree with him on. Depending on what the level of proof was. It depends on what the evidence is. Yeah. Because I've always thought about the whole idea that they can simulate social reactions to an impetus that they put out behind the scenes using the tools that they have to be able to know if we told 8 billion people this with this input and this piece of evidence and this thing based on all of the behaviors we can track across the populace online across these different groups, different religions, non-religions, whatever, ethnicities. This is overall what we could be looking at. Yeah, I could see, and I don't know this, but I could see a scenario where that creates some sort of existential shock depending on what the information is. If the information comes out and says like, hey, elements of the Quran, the Bible and the fucking Torah are all right.

And there's aliens involved with it. Maybe that's like a scenario where people are like, okay. Enough people are like, I don't know about all of it, but we're okay. Whereas if they come out and they do the opposite and they say, everything you ever read bullshit here's how it really happened there's a there's a potential meaning of life life crisis there is there not yeah so let's pure spec different different scenarios okay so one of the things that has been creeping in about roswell or various other kind of crashes right is that sometimes they find human body parts in these crashes there's also and again it's

been widely suppressed but you've heard of these cattle mutilations sort of things yes there there's also a corpus of information about human mutilations with similar you know eyes burn out like colon extracted, all that kind of stuff, that you never hear these people talk about because they're pretty dark. So there is an aspect to that, to all this, and how do you explain that, right? And like, I'm not even saying it's non-human intelligences.

It could just be some rogue intelligence operation or whatever. I don't think it is, but something like that could be, like the whole picture is going to be unsettling, okay? There could be something that I think would be far darker, which is, yes, you're created species, you're a farm, and life ends at death, like you're, you don't pass on. It's just, it's just nothing.

That, I think, would have the highest level of ontological shock. Yes. Because at that point, it's just like, well, what does, what is, none of this matters, right? And it could also be that some of this is destabilizing. enough that whatever the news is, positive or negative, it could disincent people to work anymore and cause a civilizational collapse, right? Yeah. And I don't know what that would be, but I could probably make up a few things that would fit that.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I don't think it's that bad. I think part of it is just there are probably technologies that have been withheld from us deliberately. Mm-hmm. because if they were released, it probably would have caused civilizational collapse, as well as environmental collapse. Let me give you an example. Yeah, please.

Okay. So you have kind of the oil and gas industry, which strangely enough, like these oil and gas companies are very interested in crash retrievals and things like that. So imagine it has an energy source that taps zero point energy, and effectively you have infinite energy all the time. So, okay, well, you wouldn't need all these oil companies. So overnight, on the American stock market, every oil company with a market cap instantly goes to zero. Okay. Wipes out pension funds, you know, strategic, or not strategic sovereign wealth funds or just and has a ripple effect, right? Because then all those people don't have jobs and about a third of

every dollar and every product has, you know, petroleum, you're still going to need petroleum for certain things, right? Not to mention, let's say I'm a forester in the Amazon. Well, I mean, I can cut down as many trees as I want. I can keep this thing running all day long, like 365 days a year. Next thing you know, you've deforested the Amazon in like two years. And then also, if you can extract energy from the vacuum, you can also use it. as a weapon like every person would have access to you know an earth destroying weapon if they just used enough AI to figure out how to tweak it so how do you roll that out and how do you kind of keep it the counter argument to that is well we were able to do this with nuclear just fine but

maybe but that's not at everyone's fingertips right well maybe you won't maybe there's a way that they can do it so that it's not everybody's fingertips maybe it's the nature of this thing that's pulling stuff from the vacuum that, you know, it will be at everybody's fingertips. Yeah, this is, it's not a perfectly parallel type thing, but it's a similar vein. It's reminding me of like some of the ideas, Bostrom posited and superintelligence, if you ever read that book. I have not, but I've heard you talking about it. Yeah, which is like the infinite possibilities of where things could exponentially go wrong

if certain inputs were put into a hypothetical AI scenario. it gets weird but same kind of thing to where if the expectations change because now you have access to a shiny new tool it seems like you know hey it doesn't matter if i'm doing it everyone else won't but then everyone else does and then you do something like deforest the whole amazon and take away 20% of the fucking earth's oxygen overnight like yeah that's a problem that's you're not gonna fix that that's that's irreversible it's scary and yeah it could certainly tie into all the disclosure for sure and that could be a reason that they're holding things back. But then you also have the whole concept of like the alleged Collins elite and the guys like in the Pentagon who are like, this is angels and demons. You know what I mean? We can't fucking let this out. It's not perfectly that. But it becomes a

religious type thing. And you wonder how much of that is just how much they're interpreting the Bible themselves to mean what they want it to mean versus maybe it does and they have evidence to prove it. So that's one area where I feel like there's definitely an active narrative control. I don't think there's anybody in the Pentagon. It's just like, Jesus said they're demons and we're not going to, we're not going to look at demons. We're not going to talk about demons. We're not going to do anything with demons, right? No one, not one person?

The people who are working on the problem, I doubt it. They might have it in the back of the line. But my understanding of the Collins elite is that, and this is where you should have Nathanielas on because he's, there's a guy named Ray Boucher, who's the pastor that this group allegedly approached. Okay. And what was happening was, there was a project, and it's hard to find any information on this. I think there's like one book out there about it.

So you've heard of M.K. Ultra. There was also a CIA project called M.K.K. Often. And in MK often, they went and they tried to weaponize the occult. Okay. Weaponize that, that's great. Yeah, it makes sense. Cool. They went to look at like, you know, hoodoo and voodoo and all that stuff.

And yeah, um, Sybilique, I think was like a witch that they looked at. Anyway, they were looking at ways to weaponize that. So when you start going down this path, they probably talk to ritual magicians. So like the Crowleys of the world, Thelim. where they have rituals and they invoke entities and things like that. So allegedly, again, this is just, if you believe, Ray Boucher, and there's a book called Final Events by Nick Redfern that kind of goes into depth about this.

What was Ray Boucher's official position again? He wasn't. He was just a pastor that someone, this group, the Collins elite, approached to talk about this. And apparently every time I've tried to interview him, but every time he goes on an interview with this, right, he cancels and suddenly gets sick. Seems like a real straight shooter. Maybe, maybe, I don't know.

I don't know. So anyway, the viewpoint was that they were practicing these rituals and they kind of entrapped themselves in a sense where they couldn't control it anymore and it became a problem. but it wasn't like, you know, they're demons or anything like that. It's just these intelligences that were invoking, summoning, or whatever. It's just some really dark stuff that we need to keep underground. Otherwise, it spreads. And I don't know what the mechanism for that would be, but there's a book called Skinwalkers from the Pentagon where,

are you familiar with this one? Sounds awesome. Like George Knapp. is one of the authors. So is Sky Colum Kelleher. Okay. And it's called Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. They actually, again, I'm just passing on information.

They did a lot of experiments at the Skinwalker Ranch, right? James Lekatsky is also, I think. I don't know if he's one of the co-authors. He might be, might not be. But they actually modeled this poltergeist phenomenon called the Hitchhiker Effect. And they modeled it like you would model a virus, right, with a R-not, you know, R-sub-0. It had like an R-Not of three or something like that, like an infection, right?

So if you were, if you interacted with somebody who had this hitchhiker effect, those people started having hitchhiker effects, pultergeist activity at their homes. It's in the book. You can kind of read through it. That's not creepy at all. Yeah, Lakatsky, Kelleher, and Knapp. Skinwalkers at the Pentagon,

an insider's account of the secret government UFO program from October 2021. Good ratings, yeah, 4.4, not bad, 3,000 reviews. Again, there's like one full-born intelligence official there in the name, and there's another folks, you know, Column Kelleher is closely associated with it. And then George Knapp, you know, he does a lot of work with those guys. Sure. You want to make him squirm start asking about the Soviet UFO material that he smuggled in from Soviet or from Russia at the end of the Cold War.

Have you ever talked to him? No, those guys don't talk to me. Yeah, yeah. So Nat won't talk to you. I mean, I haven't reached out that much. So he smuggled in material from this, what kind of material again? UFO material, like their UFO files. How did he do that?

Very carefully. Yeah, I mean, obviously, but like, did he have a guy? Like, or did he walk in and say, I think, I'll just take that right there? Like, what's the? I don't know the details. the way he'd probably tell it is like, yeah, I just slipped it under the... I would imagine that there was a whole... A whole thing under the surface in order to do that.

He's probably acting on behalf of a U.S. intelligence operation. And he's the Bob Lazar guy, which makes you think. Georgie, baby. What are you up to? Okay, investigative journalist George Knapp obtained and according to reports smuggled classified Soviet-era documents regarding UAP-UFO investigations out of Russia and the early 1990s following the USSR collapse. These files, which he recently released, conveniently,

outline extensive Soviet military ministry of defense investigations into UFOs, including reports of UAP engagements, Tick-TAC objects, and recovered materials. And then there's a video from News Nation that we can't play because we'll get copyrighted that apparently discusses this. I don't know if he's in it or not. But reports indicated that so. Soviet war plans engaged with UAPs at least 45 times by 1993, with cases involving encounters

with TikTok-style objects, which could be DARPA. That would make sense. Material evidence, Knapp reported that a Russian scientist discovered small, opaque, unknown spheres of various UFO landing sites, which were brought to the U.S. for analysis. Smuggling method, to avoid being charged with espionage, Knapp hid the documents among his personal papers with the help of Russian military personnel who wanted the information to be shared. The thread three document, NAP obtained a document outlining a secret Russian effort known as thread three, which was unknown to U.S. intelligence until he brought it out.

That's kind of wild. There's no way they didn't know about it. Also, why did the Russians cooperate? Do the Russians want to see disinformation through that? Well, so I think there's three doors. Door A is exactly what you said. They're trying to sow disinformation to the United States, even as the USSR is collapsing. Door two is the USSR is collapsing and the scientists are trying to get some goodwill with the United States.

A little operation paperclip style because they don't know what's coming next. And door three is, I don't know what the fuck door three is. I don't know why I said there were three doors. I kind of forget what the third door was. Door three is it's just it was a U.S. military or U.S. intelligence operation. That sounds right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's interesting though. And that's the thing in this space. And this is what I've run into. it is intertwined with government and intelligence officials. And there's been stuff that, including people I've talked to, where stuff is provably not real or a deflection from something else. Does that mean all of what they're saying is fake? No, I'm one of these guys that likes to judge on a case-by-case basis.

But I've made a really conscious decision, you know, over the past going on like 15 months or so to pretty much, with the exception of my friend Chris Ramsey, you know, talk with physicists about the phenomenon and then maybe someone like you who's tangentially looking at it and also has a similar view on it to me with like what the fuck is going on here. You know, that's kind of where I want to leave it because like the whistleblower side of things and the information shared therein, a lot of questionable stuff to say at least. If there's, yeah, if you saw a whistleblower, they generally don't survive. Yeah, exactly.

It's like why, and it's not to be mean, but you have to ask those questions. All right, why did this guy walk out and walk right at the front, the fucking front of Congress and tell us whole story? Yeah, and also, like, why are, like, the people who are leading some of these things,

they have entire careers as counterintelligence? 100%. Yeah. Like, you're not here to, you're not a public affairs guy. You're there to expose leaks, and what's the best way to expose leaks? you say something that's nobly false. And then somebody who worked on the program is like,

hey, I worked on that program. Like, oh, gotcha. Gotcha. And now you create noise. And it's bad noise. And people go, oh, God, this again. That's part of it too. They want to make it wacky.

You make it wacky and make people, which probably why they don't want to talk to me, right? Yeah, that could be. And like I kind of wonder this sometimes because, you know, like Joe Rogan invented a whole space here effectively. And he was really getting. big in 2015, 2016, and he exploded in 2017, 2018. Like he was very, he was the biggest guy in 2015, 2016, but explodes, 2017, 2018. Which is the year that TikTok videos came out.

Exactly. 2017 is when the New York Times report. And you kind of wonder if they're like, okay, there's a, there's a guy here who's actually looking into this and is well read on the subject matter and wants to know what the truth is and whatever. So you know what? Maybe we can give them. We can throw them 5% and tell them it's 100. Yeah, it's called there's a term for it. It's called a limited modified hangout. 100%. And then it goes across the whole industry to guys like me, guys like Danny Jones.

Like he and I talk about this all the time. Like some of these guys, man, you know? And that's unfortunately like a part of it. Like you learn that along the way. And I just don't, I never want to baby with the bathwater stuff. You know what I mean? I don't want to say because this guy was completely full of shit. therefore all of it is that way but when it comes to like the one space of whistleblowers the burden of proof is on them you know like they'll put out a lot of the stuff they put out it's most effective if there's elements of truth in it of course right but it'll be also elements of just complete nutter nonsense and then they'll put out different stories to different people right like maybe they did with lazar where they'll insert one detail and then they can track who the person who leaked it was right right

So there are lots of different techniques. But again, the limited modified hangout is you have a glacier under the water of things. And they'll just tell you the tippity top and then move on. Because there could be other random things too. Like, look over here. Don't look over here. I mean, it could be maybe we have, again, I don't think it's this, but maybe we have like a treaty where we said, sure, okay, we surrender. We surrender.

And you can take, you know, X number of hybrids or not hybrids, but that's the latest thing. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. there's you know i heard a story where there was some hybrids and you know i was putting this stuff it's like you're just gonna you're just gonna throw that out there and then and not like follow up like right so many questions right so i think if there were secrets hidden it's not necessarily in any one time or place but a place where it really would have had a great opportunity to happen when you talk pun intended fog of war would have been the world war two years and it's fascinating that in those years we got the nuke and then also since those years immediately starting

after with things like roswell and stuff like that we see these patterns of odd sightings at military bases specifically places where there are nukes there might be a there there yeah there's a reason these things are i mean it could be something like maybe these things are just plasma maybe like whatever i forget what they're calling sentient plasmoids right in fact there were there's a call for papers at Harvard in September of 2024 about sentient plasmoids. Sentient plasmoids, straight out of Harvard. Yep. And, you know, maybe

these things get energy from the movement of nuclear materials. Maybe, again, pure spec. Everything's pierced back. But there are, like, scientists will look at plasmas and there

could easily be life only just happens much faster. right um i don't i can't remember if there's a um i don't know where i saw the paper but there are papers on this where you know you can have cells of plasma and they exchange information efficiently they um show behavior that appears to exhibit or seem like reproduction they behave intelligently so and again it's like 99 percent of visible matter is plasma right now There's invisible matter, which is kind of dark energy and dark matter and all that stuff. And I can't speak to that.

But actually, so there's this guy, Dr. James Madden, he's a philosopher, but he wrote a book called Unidentified. Like, I can't remember the name the book, but there's this concept called the Unveld. Okay. The Imveld is just the world around us, the way we see it, like our senses. And the example he uses about the unveldt is he talks about like ticks, the way tick operate, right? Ticks don't see. What they do is they detect butyric acid, right? It's just a chemical sense. And they just kind of sit on a blade of grass and wait until they detect a butyric acid, which is what mammals give off. As soon as it detects, it just falls from the

blade of grass onto warmth. It looks as a temperature detector, right? It looks for a warm mammalian body. And then it uses touch to decide when to inject its proboscis or whatever and start draining. But that's the entire worldview, right? It doesn't see, it doesn't hear, but it's a fully functional umwelt. The same thing is probably true of humans, right? We only see from the visible spectrum from like 400 to 700 nanometers. We only hear from like, you know, 2,000 to 20,000, hurts, right? There's a whole level of reality that survival didn't need to select us for, that we're missing out on.

There are other things that other species have that far exceed our ability to detect. So the bottom line is part of this is, and that's called, you know, there's our umwelt, and then there's this Uber umwelt that is all of reality that we just don't, see or detect. So a lot of the stuff that we're seeing UAPs might just be some facet of that. For instance, we're only capable of operating in four dimensions, right? You've heard about this book, Flatland, right? There's a book in like the late 1800s where it imagines a two-dimensional, like a species that sees in two dimensions and what would a three-dimensional being look like, right? It would just be like if you have a, like a finger, if you have a ball, right, a sphere,

and you passed a sphere through that world, you would just see a tiny circle expanding to a large circle and then declining to a point, right? And it would be like, what the hell was that? So it could just be that maybe there are higher physical dimensions and string theory they tell you there are, but who knows that sounds like a big waste of time to me. That maybe we just don't, there are things

that are higher dimensional beings and different than the dimensional we defined earlier as a type of reality. this might just be physical dimensions. There might be time dimensions too, right? That might not just be a linear hour of time. There might be, you know, you can go left, right, down, up, down, who knows. So part of it's just we have limited perception.

It's very hard to conceive of these things. I mean, right now there's Wi-Fi signals booming all around us. We don't see those. Yeah. Yeah. And then you wonder, like, the people that even biologically can't conceive, them like us who at least are read in on the proof that it exists it's like what do you even do with that but i mean we'd be getting at it with the distraction element of it you have to do this it's

like you have the epstein files go fucking haywire the first time around when they were forced to release it they did it the friday before christmas a week later nick shirley puts out the fucking somali fraud video that gets astro turfed into the ethersphere and then a week after that we invade Venezuela. Nobody's talking about Epstein, but then four weeks later, boom, the big Epstein one comes out January 30th. No one, righteously so. None of us can shut the fuck up about it, as we shouldn't over the next month. And then we invade Iran. Then that turns into a disaster. The focus is shifted to that. So the people aren't talking about Epstein, but that's not enough. Now Iran's a disaster. It's a new fucking thing. And so wait a minute. Now we got missing scientists. And that's really

interesting because it's been going on for four years and they're all going. And all the while, Trump's like, oh, by the way, a week before around, we're going to release the UFO files. Then they're late on that. Now they're back to talking about releasing all the UFO files and making a big deal out of it when he's never seemed to care about it before in the first place. So you have to wonder. Like they cleaned them up. Clean them up. Let's scrub this a little bit and we'll just do another relimitive release, declare victories. Right. It's everything, even though it's not everything. I mean, I think they lost like 100 terabytes or so. Like the FBI lost like 100 terabytes of material from that. Are you kidding me? No, I just look it up. I can't I can't remember where I read. it. How do you lose it? Well, lose it. Yeah. Or somebody, some other actor maybe hacked in. They put it on Cash Patel's desk and somehow it's not there anymore.

All right. Based on reports from February 26th, a massive archive of 3.8 million to classified U.S. government files including extensive UFO, CIA and historical records was wiped clean from the private, the Black Vault archive rather than the FBI's internal servers. The loss. The files were hosted on a private server by researcher John Greenwald, not on a government website. The data was wiped. Wait, the John Greenwald I know? Like the Blackfalk guy? Yeah, that sounds like the Blackfalk guy. Yeah. Not on a government website. The data was wiped on February 20th with server permissions and ownership logs change without explanation. I didn't even know about this. I thought it was like the Epstein files had the... Well, they did that too. That one got lost. But whoa, while not directly

from the FBI's, the files were mostly acquired via the FOIA. from agencies like FBI, CIA, and others. Okay, this one's interesting. It's at least acquired in a public way, but that's still really interesting. I didn't know about this. But yeah, you are right. They lost Epstein files in 2023.

That's pre-cash Patel, in fairness, them. But, you know, it's like the timing. That's the, that's exactly what I was talking about earlier with Carl now. That's what they flashed up to the. What did they flash up? This is the disclosure campaign plan. Oh, the Soul Foundation. Yeah.

Okay. So the Soul Foundation. UAP Disclosure Campaign Plan, Phase 1, demonstrate UAP existence. That's pre-gen 1, 2026. Phase 2, pre-Gen 1, 2028, correlate UAP signatures. Phase 3, pre-1 October 2030, characterize UAP performance.

Phase 4, determine UAP nature prior to 1 October 20, 2034, and then indefinite timeline, phase 5, NIH engagement. we're going to talk to the aliens. We'll do a podcast with them. How about that? Right. Anytime they want to come on West Darkly or Julian Dory. Yeah, you can sit shotgun with me. We'll talk to the gray. Yeah, welcome. Yeah, welcome. We can talk to them.

You're not an alien, are you? Maybe. Okay. Maybe. Yeah, we don't know. You never know. You never know. Maybe some of us are a Manchurian candidates. We don't even know. That's right. You know? I was, I was thinking of that's the other thing. Let's, pure spec. Pure spec. I love that he's

using it. Let's say that there is a hybridization. program, okay? Meaning humans are fucking aliens. Meaning humans have some alien DNA. By the way, you should look into 23 and me, because there always is some level of like indeterminate percentage of DNA in the, in those reports. Now, it could just be, you know, experiment, not experimental, but it could just be some

like, um, factor that they just can't identify and they just lump in that category or maybe it's something else. But let's just say pure spec that. There is some hybridization in the population where they were seated and people have different percentages of non-human DNA. Okay? And let's say those people don't know that. They have no idea. What happens if you release the information that there are people in the population who have this DNA.

They don't know it, but we're going to let people know who they are. What would happen to those people? Right? You don't think people would kind of come out and like, they're demons inside them. We got to burn them. We're going to distract them. Yeah, we got to burn them, right? Like, there could be issues like that where, you know, a lot of people would just get murdered because of the fear of it's not their fault. But they, again, I don't know anything anybody else does, right? It's just pure spec. You know, it's a fair possibility deposit. it. And again, is that a part of things that they know that they can't talk about because they know people would fucking lose their minds and do shit like the purge? Pat Price in the 70s. He, I think put-off gave this guy, Hal put-off, gave Das Smith some of his remote viewing

records, like for some reason he had Pat Price stuff. And apparently Pat Price had, again, this is just, I'm just reporting this, had remote viewed people in key institutions. And basically they were not human, right? So like, that's reassuring. You didn't do it by name, but it was just like this college, president of this college and, you know, this particular area. So there might be the case where there's people

who are just kind of running the scenes and have always been either in secret or are known. Again, this is pure spec. I'm not saying this is real. Listen, I don't think men in black was completely a figment of imagination that went pen to paper onto a screenplay. I'm not saying it's all real. I'm saying like there's something there. It's based on something.

Have you talked to Peter Levenda? Someone told me to talk to. Who was telling me to talk to Peter Levenda? Might have been James Fox. I haven't talked to him. I mean, he's. Yeah. Yeah, he's definitely interesting.

There is, there is, I love that. I love, I think he's a great guy. I think he's brilliant, he's a brilliant researcher. There is some adjacency to kind of intelligence, national security, though, for sure. What do you mean by that? So he got into this whole topic because it was during the Vietnam War. And one of the exemptions to get out of the draft was basically to create, like, a 501 C3 and start a religion.

So they started like the American Orthodox Church or something, something crazy like that. And then using those credentials, they were somehow able to get into the Robert F. Kennedy funeral in New York. You'll have to ask Danny Jones. I think he explained it to Danny Jones. Danny Jones 371. I'm looking right now because I had a feeling Danny had him on. So that caught the attention of intelligence folks.

And then they would use him from time to time to, you know, just seed information or just get information about how the Russians were using the Eastern Orthodox Church to smuggling spies and stuff like that. So I'm not saying he's very interesting. And you just have to be, and don't mention like, he also has an occult background too. Yeah, I know, I just wanted to make sure Because I was put in the face with it And it was the one I was thinking of you Like during our interview, I mentioned like the name of a demon And he's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa

Chill with that boy. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, are I to be okay? He's like, you'll probably be okay. Probably, probably. Is the demon in the room with us right now? I'll tell you after I ain't going to say it. Because he just had a weird reaction. I'm like, yeah, so I don't know what to make of that sometimes.

But it's fun to talk about it's like, okay. There's something to it. I just don't think it, I don't think it is what we think it is. I think it's, we talked about these overlapping realities and things like that. It's probably some connection to that. I'm sure science explains all of it. It's just the science that we currently have. We don't know as much as we think we know.

Yeah, we can't get all the way earlier in the Heaven's Gate thing with remote viewing. So for people who are unfamiliar with that, can you explain what that is? Okay. So let's start with the Heaven's Gate. So there was a cult back in kind of the early 90s. And it was run by this male and female pair, tea and dough. And they, you know, would worship basically by watching Star Trek episodes. It was pretty kooky stuff.

And they would, you know, also like the males would, they basically tried to be gender, gender neutral. So the males castrated the males. castrated themselves or were castrated, chemically castrate, whatever you want to call it. And they ultimately, there's this thing called the Hilbop comet that flew toward the earth and they believed that it was a flying saucer in the corona of that comet that they had to discard their physical vehicles and to ascend to this craft. And I think at the time, one of the female person had died, and there's just one guy that was in charge.

So anyway, as that comment was coming in, there's two remote viewers, right? So one of them was Ed Dames, who's recently passed. And for all he's done, like, net net positive impact on the world. We wouldn't know about remote viewing if he hadn't leaked it. he was part of the original uh stargate program i never got a chance to talk to him because i know i just know he'd never agree to interview but when he was uh they were going to release a book about remote viewing and you know i think the person at st martin's press kind of

distributed around to other people who were in the unit and it had like some stuff that just Clearly didn't happen. Like when he walked in the room, everybody would stand up and salute. And it was like it was not that kind of an operation, right? Everybody was kind of in civilian clothes. And I mean, not all the time. But anyway, Morehouse looks at it. And he's just like, this is like you can't publish this because it's just going to come out and everybody's going to attack it.

And it's not. So they basically then just asked him to write his own book. So that created a rift between him and Ed Dames. for a while. But to this day, like, Um, Morehouse still thought the guy was a good guy and all this. And I'm saying this on purpose because what I'm about to explain is not going to put him in the best of lights. But this is, you know, don't hate the person. People make mistakes in their life. But anyway, he was burned once with, with, with books. So then he starts writing, co-writing a book with, um,

now I'm blanking on his name on another remote viewer. Okay. It's probably better. Courtney Courtney Brown, who runs the Farsight Institute. He took like one course with Ed Dames and then created his own version of remote viewing called Scientific Removal viewing, SRV. And then when Ed Dames left, he had his own version called TRV, technical remote viewing. It's all, I'm sure there's like little differences, but it's all CRV stuff. So they start co-writing a book and Ed Dames could be, according to people I've talked to, could be a little overbearing and was kind of doing so much.

of the same stuff. And Courtney Brown was just like, this is like, I can't, I can't put that in the book. And he's like, you have to. Otherwise, like, you know, if I'm going to be in this book, he's like, I can just hit find replace, replace your name with remote viewer. And like I can easily not include you in the book and be done. And that's basically what he did. Right. So Ed Dames has been like twice, or at least from his perspective, likely, uh, been spurned in this manner. So our Bell is everybody's talking Hail Bob. Everybody's talking Halbop, right? And he's having like Ed Dames on, then Courtney Brown, Ed Dames, Courtney Brown, they're

talking about this comic coming in, okay, on coast to coast a.m. Art Bell says, hey, I just, when Courtney Brown's on, hey, I just got this like photo from a from an astronomer. And, you know, here's a, here's, here's, here's, hellbop, and here's the corona of Halbop, here's the tail. And there's like this little speck there. Can you remote view and see what that? that is, right? So we talked about front loading. This is the ultimate front load. Okay. So

Coraline Brown's like, yeah, sure, I'll take a look at it. And he comes back, like very tentatively and like, yeah, it looks like it's, you know, like a mothership. It's coming in. Like, I haven't really done too much with it, but, you know, you want me to do more. And then, you know, Art Bell, being Art Bell, is like, yeah, absolutely. So then he gets into this whole elaborate story about this mothership coming in and all that stuff. And these Heavens Gate people kind of latch on to that. Oh, shit. So eventually, like somebody calls in and says,

hey, I'm the radio astronomer. And that whole thing was Photoshopped. It's bullshit. So allegedly, and I'm saying allegedly, just to protect all of us, Ed Dames seeded that in there to humiliate Courtney Brown. And as a result, like these guys, you know, I'm not saying that's the reason they may have been like, you know, they're already, you know, five fries short of a happy meal to begin with.

But like that stuff is, you know, there are real consequences of that stuff. And that's, again, it's front loading, right? And that's also ended up, not ended up, but it's one of those data points that serves to discredit remote viewing. Yep. And it simply was just not done the way it's supposed to be done. You wonder if that's the point? And maybe that was a point. You wonder if that's like some sort of like plant.

Yeah, you got Heaven's Gate up there. Yeah, Heaven's Gate Religious Group, American New Religious Movement, known primarily for the mass suicides of its members in 1997, often described as the Coldo was founded in 74, led by Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles. Known within the movement as Doe and T, respectively, Nettles and Applewhite first met in 72

and went on a journey of spiritual discovery, identifying themselves as the two witnesses of the Book of Revelation? That's never good. That's never good. That's straight out of the Joseph Smith textbook. Attracting a following of several hundred people in the mid-1970s. In 1976, a core group of a few dozen members stopped recruiting and instituted a monastic lifestyle. Scholars have described the theology of Heaven's Gate as a mixture of Christian millennialism, new age, and euphology. And it has been characterized as a UFO religion. The central belief of the group was that followers could transform themselves

into immortal extraterrestrial beings by rejecting their human nature and they would ascend to heaven, very clavicular of them, referred to as the next level or the evolutionary level above human. The deaths of nettles from cancer in 85 challenge, the death of nettles from cancer and 85 challenge groups

use on ascension while they originally believed they would ascend to heaven while alive aboard a UFO. They came to believe that the body was merely a container, very Scientology of them, or vehicle for the soul, and that their consciousness would be transferred to next level bodies upon death. On March 26, 1997, deputies of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department discovered the bodies of 39 active members of the group, including Apple White.

In a house in San Diego County suburb of Rancho Santa Fe, they had participated in a coordinated series of ritual suicides, coinciding with the largest approach of comet Hail Bob. Just before the mass suicide, the group's website was updated with the message, Hail Bob brings closure to Heaven's Gate. Our 22 years of classroom here on planet, is finally coming to conclusion graduation from the human evolutionary level

we are happily prepared to leave this world and go with T's crew Jesus Christ and by the way Courtney Brown is a very talented remote viewer he just didn't follow the core didn't follow the protocol

yeah you're not supposed to know what you're viewing otherwise your imagination's going to fill in the details or you can't like prevent it that's one way it can turn out yeah little oozy vert that's right That's right. Yeah. Wait, what's that?

A little Uzi vertical based... Yeah. Philly guy. Interesting. Is that... I think it looks like an onk, too. It's like an... A what?

An unk? An unk? A.N. It's important distinction there. K-H. I think it's like an Egyptian symbol. Oh, that's good. I feel like that would start

a fucking six-hour rabbit hole. Yeah. Sean, I got to get you to your fucking plane, but this has been wild, man. Yeah. Thanks for coming out here to do it. had a good time i hope i didn't scare anybody no no no the last part's unfortunate but you know it's true story so lesson learned for all of us out there don't follow heaven's gate but i really appreciate

your wide scope of knowledge on things and i'm also looking forward to you sitting down with my friend mark agnon that'll be a lot of fun yeah i'm looking forward to it too and man it was an absolute pleasure i enjoyed it all right everyone go subscribe to shone's channel we will have that link down below if you want to hear more stories just like you did right here and we'll have to do this again some time all right brother thank you everybody else you know what it is give to thought it back to me. Peace. What's up, guys? Thanks so much for watching the video. If you have not subscribed, please hit that subscribe button before you leave,

as well as leaving the like on the video. It's a huge, huge help. You can join my Patreon via the link in the description, and you can also join my clipping community via the Discord link down below. See you for the next episode.