Julian Dorey Podcast - #436 - "SHOCKING Discovery!" - 250,000-Yr Archaeology Coverup & Nazca Mummy Investigation | Will Brown

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) QUO: Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to www.Quo.com/JULIAN JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CLIPPERS DISCORD: https://discord.gg/8QmWEKJ3BT (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ William Brown is an ancient history researcher and Youtuber. He is the creator and host of @incredhistory on YT. WILL's LINKS YT: https://www.youtube.com/@incredhistory/videos IG: https://www.instagram.com/incredhistory?igsh=OGh4NzI5aTBvaWl6&utm_source=qr X: https://x.com/incredhistory?s=21 FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY IG: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://x.com/juliandorey ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 0:11 - America's Biggest Archaeology Cover-Up 8:58 - Scientist Destroyed For Discovery 25:52 - White Sands Changes History 44:25 - Vikings, Romans & Ancient America 01:00:14 - UFOs Are 100% Real? 01:06:33 - The Nazca Mummy Investigation 01:18:11 - The Nazca Scam Exposed 01:26:14 - Demon Fairy or Giant Bat? 01:43:15 - Organized Crime & Alien Mummies 01:51:03 - UFO Whistleblower Stories 02:06:07 - Mushrooms, Aliens & Psychic Visions 02:18:41 - The Untold American History 02:20:49 - Will's Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 436 - Will Brown Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, so you and I just did a fucking awesome episode on the Conquista Doors and a lot of different things in there. But we got to go through so much of that. I appreciate that because I love that history. I share that with you. And like I was saying in that episode, everyone's got to check out Will's documentaries on this and historical breakdowns on your channel, which we'll have literally as a part of the co-publish. You can go subscribe to Will. But we left off. We had not talked about Huayatilaco.

Wayetalco. I said that right this time. Fantastic. Okay. For people out there don't know what this is, what is Wayet-Talako? Yeah, so Wayet-Slako, just real quick before I get into it, is just a site in Mexico where there is a controversy on the age of artifacts that were found there. Some that show, just spoiler alert, that some of these artifacts might have been 250,000 years old.

250,000. Yes. And so the reason that's interesting is because for a long time, the predominant theory was that, people had only been in the Americas for 13,000, 14,000 years these days, that's been pushed back quite a bit. Most people accept that this idea that the Clovis people were the first in the Americas is maybe not the case, that 22,000 years is maybe the reality now. Michael Button talked about it when he was in here, but can you just remind people who the Clovis people? Yes. So if you remember, like, if you go back to grade school even, when you see in your text,

book, this ice-free corridor from Asia to Alaska down through Canada and the people in of the Americas. The Clovis people were these amazing group of hunter-gatherers, hunters, really, that had these specific Clovis points, these points that they would use for hunting. And that's how you could always identify them based on how they made those points. And you see it all throughout the Americas. And it does all show. up, yep, exactly. And the archaeological record is pretty thorough with it. Like, there's a reason they thought that was the first group. What is that made out of right there, the Clovis point that I'm looking at on the screen? Yeah, what is that? That's from 11,500 to 9,000 BC and Utah. That is a cool

looking... Wow. Wow. And so, you know, so that's kind of the baseline there is that People weren't supposed to be in the Americas past that time. Of course, that's been pushed back quite a bit now. I think most people would accept that at least 20,000 years is probably accurate. But 250,000 years. That's a whole different level. That's crazy. You know, that's crazy talk according to back then, even now.

So in 1959, there was a man named Juan Armenta Camacho. And I titled this, by the way, this video blew up for me. I titled it The Greatest Cover Up in Archaeological History. It's a good title. And I think it's the truth. You know, this is actually, I would like to preface this by saying this is not an attack on archaeology. I do think this was specific egos involved here that caused this cover up. I'm actually a big fan of archaeologists, believe it or not.

I know there's like this debate, these people are always fighting online archaeologists and alternative history people. I try to stay out of that because I think archaeologists are, I think there's some amazing archaeologists out there, but they're humans just like anybody else. And so let's go to 1959. There's a man named Juan Armenta Camacho, who was kind of a, I guess you could call him an amateur archaeologist. He didn't have any credentials, but he was self-taught. And he did a lot of good work down in Puebla, Mexico. He was pretty well respected.

Puebla, Mexico? Yep. What region of Mexico is? Puebla is just over the mountain. Remember Pappo, the volcano? We know what we were just talking about? Just over the mountains from Mexico City. You go across that pass and you're in Puebla.

Okay. Not far. Hey, guys. If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. And if you want to pull up my PDF when you get a chance, Joey,

Juan Armenta Camacho and scroll all the way down, Juan Armenta Camacho found this fossil while he was out there on the shores of this reservoir right there go up one perfect see this fossil right here am i looking top right top yeah top and top right so and he quickly realized that there was engravings on this that there was carbons on this thing and that it depicted a hunting scene now i believe this is the hip bone of a north american camel camels used to live in north america a hip bone of a camel yes and so So North America used to have camels, used to have, you know, mammoths, horses before they were reintroduced again, lived in North America.

Yeah, I knew about the mammoths. I knew about the horses, too, but camels. Yep, North American camel. Fucking Lawrence of Arabia over in North America. And this was an ice age animal. And this was a huge discovery because it was carved on something called green bone. And this is a fossilized bone right here. So green bone means that it was carved soon after death, meaning like they didn't just find it as a fossil years later.

And so that means that this was at least 10,000 years old. You know, some people think that fossilization happens quicker or longer, but on average, about 10,000 years is a good guess. And I knew this was extremely old. But 10,000 still puts us in the Clovis kind of era, if need be, right? Totally. But at the time, though, this is one of the oldest. examples of art in the Americas. So that's a big deal. And that's the art, the re-rendering in the art right there on the top right? Correct. You said it's depicting a hunting scene. Yep, you can see

there, there's like some type of mastodon there. There's, you know, carvings of different, looks like a skull. And so this is at least 10,000 years old. And a bunch of archaeologists and geologists get interested and they confirm the finding. At one point, the Smithsonian had, at this, at least a replica of it in their museum. At one point? At one point. Nobody knows where this artifact is anymore. This is, no one knows where this is, this is gone forever.

What? Yes. What happened there? We'll get into that, for sure. But another preface, this isn't the artifact that ended up being debated on whether it was 250,000 years old. But it opened the door for excavation at a place called Way. It's Locke.

And so if we go to the next. slide. There's a really good archaeologist named Cynthia Irwin Williams that went down there and did the dig. And she was kind of an up and coming talent and people were excited about her. And this was a big, you know, going to be a big dig. They knew they were going to find some interesting things down there. American Lady? American Lady, which is also probably a good point for later on. So she immediately starts finding these stratified layers or these artifacts and stratified layers. And if you go to the next slide here, this is the layers we're seeing here. And this is important. So way it's locko ash is right there. That's important because ash can be

dated. You can date ash. There's there's carbon in it. There's things that you can date. And then you have bed C and bed E and bed I. So one piece of the artifacts that they found was embed C and E and the other in bed-eye. So there's no, you know, there's no controversy at this point, but the next slide, they go to Hal Maldi, he's a geologist, and he does a carbon dating of it. And carbon dating at the time was the best they have. They had. Now we have way better methods, uranium series dating. Uranium series dating. Yeah, Fission track dating. There's all kinds of methods now that are better, but at the time, this is what they had. And they got 20 to thousand years. Carbon dating is not the most accurate, but they got 22,000 years with just that.

And at the time, that's like kind of maxing out the abilities, I think, of like carbon dating. So it could have been even older. But yeah. What was there margin of error on that? That's a good question. There's like definitely a standard deviate, but like that's the, I think that that that answer right there, 22,000 had some type of, yeah, standard deviation on it, but it was tight. It's not like. So it's not like 12,000 years on either. side. But once again, this is carbon dating. I think most people agree, carbon dating is just not the most accurate. But they knew it was old, right? That told them that it was old. And so immediately this becomes controversial. At the time, 22,000 years was a no-no. That is, the textbooks have been written, right? Like, textbooks have already been written. Yeah, by Robert Maxwell. Yeah. And so this challenged

Clovis first. Clovis first, the, the, the, The archaeological record for Clovis first kind of ends around that younger, driest time period, like 12,000 some years. So this guy goes down and does this and obviously he gets attacked brutally by people who have not gone and observed this. They're just saying that can't be because we've already decided with the signs that it can only be 12,000 no matter what else we find, la la la, eyes are shut, ears are shut. Even crazier is men with guns show up to the site, confiscate our

artifacts and ban all the archaeologists and geologists from performing any more work there. Men with guns? That's the story. This is like 1960 now? This is 1960s at this point. There's a really good book called the first Americans by a guy named Christopher Hardeker that's passed away that documents all of this drama that happened. And Juan Armenta Camacho, the original discoverer of the camelbone hip, his daughter,

and one of the documentaries that's out there tells the story about the men showing up. And basically, they blamed it on the director of the museum of history in Mexico City. They thought that he was jealous of Cynthia or just disagreed with her and thought this was getting out of control. And so they show up with the stories, they show up with guns and confiscate these artifacts. And so this kind of gets memory hold for a little bit. fast forward 10 years later now they have something called uranium series dating in the 70s in the 70s and how does that work uranium

series dating? I don't know exactly other than it's like I'm sure they're they're putting a lot of heat on I don't we can go yeah let's Google that yeah let's do that and so during this time they go let's take a look at these examples of this ash you want me read this? Yeah Yes, please do. This will be good. This is from Google AI. Uranium series dating is a highly accurate radiometric technique with a plus minus 1% error used to determine the age of geological and archaeological materials, primarily calcium carbonates like selactites, corals, and shells ranging from 1,000 to 500,000 years old.

It works by measuring the ratio of radioactive uranium isotopes to their daughter isotope, thorium 230. which accumulates over time, how it functions. Unlike radiocarbon dating that measures N-member decay, U-Series dating measures the degree to which secular equilibrium has been restored between the radioactive daughter isotope and its parent isotope. Because uranium is water-soluble and thorium is not. Newly formed materials contain uranium, but no thorium, starting a clock as thorium begins to accumulate. Okay, that makes sense. But please continue. So this is a better method. And if, remember, they're testing that ash.

And keep in mind, these artifacts that, and there's the site way it's Laco right there. If you got that PDF, these artifacts, they're underneath the ash. So we're just measuring the ash. The artifacts are well below. And there's another geologist that goes out there named Virginia Steen-McCentire. And she goes and does this uranium serious dating on. this material. So she was allowed to go in there? Well, they had, they still had some of the ash probably back in the Americas for labs, but she actually did go back. I believe that's her right

there. So the men with guns are gone? Men with guns are gone, maybe got permission again. And we don't know who the men with guns were? The story is that they were sent by the director of the Museum of History in Mexico City. The guy's name was Luis Lorenzo. That's the story from Christopher Hardeker in this book. This is all 50s and 60s, so, you know, the paper trail is pretty wild. Yeah. And so she dates this to 250,000 to 800,000 years old. Now that's a huge gap. The tools? The tools? The ash. Just the ash. So he was at 22,000. She got to 250 to 800, with the more accurate dating method. Right. Now how'd she, what was her logic there? Well, the logic, no one really, at this point, people right away accept, okay, yeah, no, this is old.

This is old. Maybe not everybody accepted, but most people are accepting this is old, but something must be wrong with these layers that these artifacts are being found in. So immediately when she publishes this, she loses funding. She kind of has a, you know, a hit on her character, assassinations, all that stuff. and part of another reason I call this the cover up. If you go back to the layers of ash right here, you ever realize how many customers slipped through the cracks, miss calls, follow-ups that never happen, it adds up fast.

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But they go back to this site decades later and they go, let's do it again. This time we're going to do like a double blind test. In fact, so no one gets in trouble. we're going to send it to an expert that does uranium series dating another one that does fission track dating and we're not even going to tell them what it's for that way they don't get in trouble

just tell us how old is the material and so they send the ash and the uranium series dating and the fission tract dating both come back to like 250,000 to 500,000 years confirming it so at this point no one is arguing okay the ash is clearly old everybody

agrees with that. But the argument that starts to be made is that bed C and E that those artifacts ended up there due to some type of erosion. And keep in mind, bed eye, no one's questioning that that with bed eye. Bed eye, everyone agreed it was well secured underneath the ash. But with bed C and E, they said it must have been erosion. Well, they did something called a diatom analysis. So this is like the fourth dating method they used. Diatoms, and let me just back up real quick, there was an archaeologist named, oh, I'm forgetting his name right now. I'm really sorry, I'm forgetting his name, but an archaeologist was just doing his job

and basically taking the skeptic side of this, which is nothing wrong with that. Like this is a huge claim, 250,000 years for humans. So I'm not flaming him when I'm talking about this, but his idea was that something called, basically an old river channel is how that ended up there. But another test comes along called a diatom analysis. And diatoms are these extinct little micros, not all of them, actually, some of them are still alive, but these little microscopic organisms. And they know generally when these different organisms went extinct.

and if you could find some around where these were found, you could get a pretty good idea of when those diatoms that were in the exact same place, where those artifacts were found, you know, when extinct, if you could find any of the extinct ones. And they found one or several of them that were at minimum 80,000 years when they went extinct. So that's just at minimum.

How did they determine at minimum? Oh, there's, because that's one, when it went extinct, but that doesn't, they didn't just, they'd been alive, those diatoms had existed for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. So 80,000 years is when they went extinct, so that's just the minimum. Once again confirming that those artifacts were laying,

were laid there a long time ago, is the argument. Now, even the skeptics had troubled, you know, arguing against the diatoma analysis. That was something that was kind of mind-blowing. Meanwhile, with bed-eye, no one disagrees that bed-eye is underneath the ash. And the explanation was she must have just made a mistake. She wrote it wrong in her notes. But no one disagree.

She never, she never agreed with that. Cynthia never admitted to making a mistake. Everyone that kind of defended her said she was very thorough. with her notes and that they believe she found something in bed eye. And that bed eye is even lower and older than bed C&E right there. And that's, remember, the way of Tlocko Ash is what's being measured here. So bed C and E and I are even older than the way of Tlocco ash. Now, I keep looking at this chart that's like a drawing, rendering of it.

But do you know, like, on a foot basis, how much deeper that is? But there's some pretty, I wish I would, you know, go back up to that picture. to slide 48. So right here is kind of like the levels that they're working with. That kind of helps you a little bit. So where's her hand? It's good question. I'm not sure exactly where that's like where the ashes.

So basically you see where it's blue on the top right there? That's the sky, right? That's the sky. So that's the top right there. And then you can see the size of her. She's crouched over. So maybe she's crouched over standing at about you know, squatting at about three feet.

And then it looks like there's an, so it's about six feet up. I am ballparking this just looking at people. Six, seven feet up all in. And so this is, it's just mind-blowing because you're, and this is why I like Michael Button's channel so much. Michael Button, you could consider, I guess, as part of the alternative history niche, but it's not, in my opinion, it's nothing like fantastical out of this.

No. There's not really, you know, the Atlantis talk and all that stuff. Michael sticks to how old are humans. Yeah. Right. I really appreciated about that, about that with him. You know, he's open-minded, but he really sticks to some of the new evidence that's coming out about the age of like homo sapiens, for example. And so when we talked about Way It's Laco before he made his video, I was so excited because I knew this would be right up his audience's alley.

And it's even more exciting because it's the Americas. People weren't supposed to be here until 20,000 years ago. And here we have this evidence that they might have. Now, I will say to like give credit to the archaeologists that are skeptics on this, like, where's the rest of the fossil record that shows that? And that's a good question. There's some examples if you keep going down. Like there's a site in, keep on going down to the very end.

Yeah, this one right here. So at the Brazilian Serra de Capriere National Park, there's rock art that some people believe is possibly 100,000 years old. On what basis? Probably a lot of them, there's dating methods that you can use with pigments. So like rock carvings, that's going to be hard. But actually with paint, there's stuff you can do. I can't remember thermoluminescence dating is one way you can get some ages on. But then also you can measure.

for example, they'll use ochre. So ochre is like a rock that they will use to like put this paint on the wall. And if you can find flakes of that in a certain layer of dirt that has organic material, you can measure the date of that organic material in the dirt. And so you can get some ideas there as well. And so there's another place called the Ceratim Mastodon site. Now this one's really interesting. This is out by San Diego.

they were like making a highway or something and they found this mammoth bone thund 30,000 years old? They found this mammoth tusk in a layer that is definitely 130,000 years old and what's interesting about it, it was sitting up in a very peculiar way as if it had been rested against a rock

and the bone marrow was extracted from it. It was cracked in a way where the bone marrow was being extracted. Like there's not really, I mean, if an animal can, it will eat the bone marrow, but like you, you kind of need there to be something to pulverize it. And so... Meaning, what's the connotation there?

A human cracked that thing open. When it was already dead or killed it against the wall? Well, maybe even as a, you know, a lot of times with bone marrow, humans would be scavengers in that case. They'd maybe come across a dead animal and they would crack the bones to get the morrow. But definitely when it was, you know, freshly killed within a week or so. And maybe they killed it also. So that's the Serity Mastodon site in San Diego.

That one's really interesting. And there's actually some legitimate scholarly work being done there. And then you got the White Sands footprints, which are 22,000 years old. And that's kind of the reason a lot of people are accepting that Clovis first might not be the reality here. Or were the White Sands footprints again? I was just to pull those up. It's pretty cool. It's like these kids out by White Sands, New Mexico, these children that were running around in a,

some mud that ended up being fossil. Yeah, here it is right here. Yeah, there's some alien shit out of white sands too as well. One of these might have six toes. I think one of these has six toes. Oh, yeah, look at that. One, two, three, four, five, six on that one on the left. See that?

Yeah, and that's called polydactally. Or is that five, thief. Six, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's called polydactally. What the fuck is that? going on out there. Yeah, so it's a genetic condition. And you see, I've taken pictures of a lot of petroglyphs out in the American Southwest that have six fingers on their hands. And there's good evidence. There's been some good archaeology done on this. I wish I had names to cite to give them

credit. But there's been good evidence that these people were considered special. That they, if you had six hands, that, or sorry, six hands, six fingers that you were maybe spiritually connected. So at Chaco Canyon, there's carvings of six hands. There's even a handprint in the, in Casa or so this place called Pueblo Minito in Chaco Canyon. You can check this out. There's actually a handprint in the actual Adobe of six fingers. Like somebody put their six fingers in the handprint on that.

Full E.T. Go home. Yeah, yeah. So pretty cool there. Can we pull up that back to the Wikipedia, Joe, just so I can give context on that? that one, this is the white sands. The white sands. So the white sands footprints are a set of ancient human footprints discovered in 2009.

And see how they got to put human in there? Right. Wikipedia is just programming us to make sure we don't look into it further. Maybe they could be tridactal. Discovered in 2009 at White Sands National Park in New Mexico. In 2021, they were radiocarbon dated based on seeds found in the sediment layers to between 21 and 23,000 years ago. the date range is currently the subject of scientific debate, but if it is correct, the footprints

would be possibly the oldest evidence of humans in the Americas. The earlier theory held the human settlement in the Americas began at the end of the last glacial period, about 13, 16,000 years ago. There were 61 footprints located on the shore of a dried up ice age era lake, Lake Oterra, and the Tolerosa Basin. The prints were laid on the shores of the now dry lake at a time when the climate and the region was less arid. Instead of being a desert of gypsum dunes, the region had extensive grasslands and abundant vegetation enough that these footprints could be preserved. Pretty cool, right? That is so cool. It's like, it's really surreal. It looks like they were playing. It's almost like they were playing tag. The footprints are going all kinds of

directions. They were running around and their children. So, perfectly imprinted though. Yeah. Like, Defe, can you pull up that first one again real quick? right there yeah yeah that's the thing about them like I was walking along during the snowstorm here a couple weeks back and when I was going along the pathway there were other people too and then I'd come back around and you'd see you know fresh footprints of the latest shoe but like

there maybe people will understand when I'm trying to explain this it's hard to put into words but like some footprints are perfect outlines of the borderline perfect outlines of the shoe and then others you know they step like this or like that a little bit so it's not a perfect outline these are literal feet and the outlines look so geometrically

solid compared to what an actual x-ray of a foot would look like you know it's almost like they very calmly went right exactly like that a little bit like they really pressed it in there right so only sketchy part to me yeah that is kind of interesting. So okay, you want to get a little... Maybe I just cracked the case. On the, yeah, maybe you did. So on the

footprints topic, this is way speculative and it deals with Wayetalco. And this is where I actually went and found, I went to Wayetalco. I forgot to mention that. Like I went there. I drove down there. Did you get past the guys with guns? Yeah, there was no guys with guns. Although I had a Kansas license plate and in Kansas, we don't have to have a front license plate. So I got pulled over like eight times on my way down there. But that's another story. If you go to my YouTube channel, Joey. I have, like, one of my early videos is called the cover-up at Wayet's Loco, and it's right there. And if we fast forward to the end, yeah, right here.

Okay, so. The footprint in the Zalene Tuff photograph during Sylvia Gonzalez's investigation at the foot of Cerro Tolakia, a few miles from Waya to Laco. Okay. I went and found this. Oh, you went and found it? I went and found the footprints. So using Google Earth and a little bit of, I guess, just willpower, I went and found it. So rewind just a little bit.

Let's see if we have my drone shots here because I took some drone shots of this. Yeah. So is this what you want? This is the area right here. And so we can just let this play. This was found in a later. of ash called the Zelina Tuff. That's one million years old.

And I don't think, I don't know if these are footprints. Christopher Hardiker didn't know if they were footprints. And some people think that this is just the result of mining in the area, but an archaeologist did go look at these. And here's some of the images that he had. And I went and found this site and tried to get like 4K images of it. I really screwed it up. I should have took my shoe off to give like a skell of what these were looking like.

You can go back? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I might have been trespassing. I don't know what was going on here. It's for the greater good. If it keeps going, I think that you're going to see a drone shot here. And, yeah, I was out there on dirt roads.

But this would just be wild. This is actually, yeah, handheld in a car. It's my out the window. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people.

Visit Loreal.com to learn more. one million year old footprints would just be like that wouldn't even be homo sapien that would be something else so this is my drone shot of the site cinematic photography bro very one battle after another thank you and here's some of the supposed footprints from above um way less defined than what you would find out at white sands that's probably the best shot right there and then I actually went and took a couple photos of these two like gun to my head I would just probably say like Occam's Razor, these aren't footprints. Like they're in a layer of ash that's one million years old. Like that wouldn't even be homo sapien. That'd mean that some type of like homo erectus or something

or not even that. That'd be even older. Or was that aliens? Tridactals. Could be. Maybe. Yeah. Here's some other. Those six fingers are throwing me off, bro. You got my head. For sure. But, uh. Yeah, what if that was like just some dude named fucking Carl was walking there like an hour before. You're out there like, oh my God, we've found something. Yeah, yeah. It's a big old prank. Fucking Marlboro Reds.

But at one point, this got the archaeological community down in Mexico interested. They were wondering what these were. And here I am playing Mr. Investigator taking photos with my iPhone. I love that. Someone on the ground. Yeah. But, you know, gun on my head probably just mining marks from their picks. But anyways, so that I just, that was, I forgot all about that.

I actually was that way it's Laco, and I wanted to just mention that. So you view this as like maybe the biggest cover-up of all the time? Well, just because to me it's the only one with like proof. Like a lot of people say Egypt is a huge cover-up, but I mean, I don't know. I don't, maybe I just haven't looked into it too much. This one is a proven cover-up. Men with guns showed up and confiscated artifacts. Yeah, I think the Egypt one is certainly, there's been massive cover-ups there as well.

Like, they're all important to me. You were talking about it earlier, and it's an important point. One of the reasons I like listening to guys like you and, like, Luke Caberns over the years and now Michael Button as well, is like when you look at Luke and Michael, who've been on the show, like, they're both classically trained in this. To an extent you are, too, with your degree and what you were doing, meaning you understand the academic side of this. You're not there to just fucking be the automatic opposite voice in the room on things. Right. But you also understand the reason that it's important to question things as we find new evidence. So you guys bridge the gap between the two.

And that's what I really like, you know, platforming, if you will, on the show. Because it's important that, like, we see the strengths of both sides. And we also call it out when, I guess, like, the vitriol. all happens from a place that's not truth-saking and it's more just like how can I fucking mog my enemies. Right, for sure. Like, we shouldn't be mugging each other in the alternative history versus like archaeologist space for sure. And so my whole thing is I'm just a former history teacher that has an interest in weird anomalies and weird enigmas. But I try to call balls and strikes. Like, if I think something's a hoax, um,

especially over these last few years with some of my experiences with some of that stuff, I'll do it. Like there was a, there was a Viking, if you go to my PDF, there's a, I'll just do this quickly. No, take it time. Oh yeah, we got, we're on episode two now, aren't we? So yeah, we're good. I want to tell you about the 70-year-old legend of Vikings in Paraguay or Vikings in South America. Vikings in South America. Yeah, that I believe I have debunked. I think that I've, I think I helped put it to bed. So if you go to slide 15, and actually I have a YouTube video on this too

with some cool drone footage that maybe we can check out. Sorry, I guess go to slide. Keep on going. Someone we were looking at earlier. Yeah, but anyways, I'll tell you, there's a, there's a, right, well, I don't know. You just go to the YouTube video. Yeah, let's do that.

it's called debunking Vikings in South America or something like that. You'll see it down there. It's one of my more recent ones. There we go. Down a little bit further, right there with the Jaguar. So there was this guy named Jacques Mayhew that was an anthropologist, archaeologist, down in Argentina, that had fled France after World War II because he was. a sympathizer with the Nazis. And they all went there.

I know, I know. And yep, this is it. This, he believed this right here was a megalithic wall. And anyways, I went down there to go. Oh, look at you on the ground. Yeah. Sometimes I'll go out and try to figure this stuff out. But I went down there and because I'd read part of his book online called

Viking, the Viking king of Paraguay. And the story was that there was these expeditions that went out there and found these runic inscriptions carved in the hillsides of Brazil and Paraguay, and that this proved that like this white race was, you know, running things down in Paraguay a long time ago. And to this day, people still talk about it. Like when I was in Paraguay, people, when I'd ask them about it, go, oh, yeah, the Vikings made it to Paraguay. And so this guy, Jacques Mayhew, talks about these megalithic walls. And I'd never seen any pictures of any of this online. And so I start going down there and asking people if there's any information about where I can find some of these and said, well, you've got to be careful. There's where they're at,

where all these carvings are at is where this Marxist guerrilla group. Yeah, this Marxist guerrilla group lives and they kidnapped the former vice president of paraguay like four years ago and he's presumed dead. So it was a dangerous, Paraguay is actually a pretty safe country except for this place that I had to go to. So that's Jacques Azme, Hugh. And so I go on this little hike, I pay some guides to kind of get me where I think these might be at. And if you go just a little bit further right here. Go back a little bit. Right there. Yep, right here. You see, I actually find it. I found a runic inscription. That is, if you pause it right here. That's what the Nazi was pointing out. That is a runic inscription. In his book, he has all these different things that are

just drawings of it. He doesn't have any photos. But sure enough, when I saw that, I thought I wasn't going to find anything. There it was. That's a runic inscription. I'd seen a very blurry photo of this on the internet on an old blog and confirm that was it. This is a mixture of elder, elder and older and younger Futhark, which is a type of ruin a conscription you find out in like

Sweden and stuff like that. And it's right here in Paraguay. So I'm having my mind blown a little bit. I'm like, oh shit, like here it is. Maybe there's something to it. He found it. And so I take a picture of this and put it online

and somebody does a quick translation and they say, I think it says Sig Thor Munk. Sig Thor Munk. Sig Thor Munk. And I email a photo of this to Dr. Henrik Williams

of Uppsala University and he's like the world leading runologist. And he can't confirm Sig Thor, but Munk was definitely, Munk was definitely legible.

He could read Mung. Well, if you read the Vikings and Paraguay book, the lead runologist on that expedition, his name was Professor Munk. And I believe this is the work of Professor Munk here. And I'm guessing it was an attempt to sell books. They sold a lot of these books back then, like a lot of these books sold. I don't know how much they sold or how much they made. But in that same book, they talk about these megalithy. walls. I went and found the megalithic wall. Spoiler, it is not a megalithic wall. Why is it not a

megalithic wall? It's clearly a natural feature. I'll show you why. And I'm not a geologist, but right there, yeah, you're going to see this. So we come up on it and you see it does kind of look blocky right there, but this can be explained by something called exhumation. And it's not blocky everywhere. Like there's a foundation that doesn't go through. That looks like the side of the Hudson Parkway. Yeah. And then you put it up. up in the air and you see this wall goes on for miles. Yeah. And I am 100% certain this is the wall he was talking about in his book.

So I believe. Wait, you weren't certain before you went there? No, I was. I'm 100% certain. I just by what I read and by what my guides were telling me, that was the wall. And so that is Elder Futhark right there, but I believe it was, I believe it was carved about 70 years ago. or 60 years ago.

Investigator on the ground, finding it out. I love it. Those are actually authentic petroglyphs right there, and you'll notice they have lichen in their grooves where this one's fresh. Like the lichen still hasn't grown through. Is there evidence in other places, not necessarily Paraguay,

but anywhere in South America that like, you know, a fucking Viking or something like them found their way there one minute? So there are other ruins in North America. I think the most interesting one is the Hevener runstone in Oklahoma. And then there's the

Heavner. Yep. And then there's one up in Minnesota as well that Scott Wolter, who's like a forensic geologist that's really into this stuff. He believes it's authentic, but I don't know. And then down in Peru, the most interesting thing that's kind of on the, oh, you're good. The most interesting thing in South America is there are these, there's this museum called Museo Larko. in Lima, Peru. And when I was in there,

there are these sculptures of men with beards. And I'm not talking about like sparse facial hair, but men with like huge long beards, like Santa Claus beards. Viking beards. And some of them with like these elaborate mustaches that twirl. And that's, you know, the only thing I've ever stopped

and go, huh, that's interesting. Like those, I don't recall natives in the area having those thick beards like that. But also, who's to say, no matter how good the quote-unquote warriors were, who's to say that at any point in history prior to the conquistadors, whether it be Vikings, whether it be Byzantines, whether it be ancient Romans, whether it be ancient Greeks, that some boat of, you know, 30, 40 men didn't make it over there.

Maybe not even on purpose. Right, not on purpose. but, you know, who's to say that they didn't make it over there and they were just all captured and fucking killed. Yeah. That could have happened, like, technically, that could have happened a hundred times for all we know. So if you Google Roman sculpture head Mexico. Roman sculpture head. Oh, I got to get Tolandstone back in here for this.

This one's pretty wild. So I agree with you. I think, like, the Romans were the Canary Islands, right? They had, like, a little trade port there. Uh, yes. The quacks, the calyx quaca head? So I visited this site as well when I was in Mexico. And this is an artifact that was found in a Mesoamerican burial that was carbon dated to, like, before the Spanish arrived.

And it's pretty well thought that this is. a Roman sculpture. Like all the Roman archieologists and Roman historians that looked at this said, yeah, no, that matches a Roman head that they would have been carving at a certain time during Roman history. All right. Let's read. And the official, it's tucked away in the anthropology museum in Mexico City and the official way it's labeled is a post-Columbian artifact, meaning after the Spanish. So they basically say that they think the Spanish brought it over and put it. And in the grave offering, which doesn't make sense to me. Let me read this.

In 1933, archaeologist Jose Garcia-Payon discovered a small head with foreign features in a burial at Calixquaca in the Toluca Valley, about 60 kilometers west of Mexico City. The burial was under two undisturbed cemented floors that antedated the destruction of calyxquaca by the Aztecs in AD 1510. Numerous cultural pieces were found with the head. with the head where I were identified by Garcia Payone as belonging to the Aztec Malatizica period of 1476 to 1510 Cortez did not land of Veracruz until 1519 and did not conquer the Aztecs until 1521.

So that central Mexico was still pre-Hispanic in 1510. In 1961, the Austrian anthropologist Robert Jaime Goldern examined the head and declared that it derived unquestionably from the Hellenistic Roman School of Art. He found that its distinctive naturalism suggested a date around AD 200. Heine Gelderm was an expert on the Southeast Asia, but he reported in the communication quoted by Garcia Payonne that the view that it was Roman from circa AD 200 had been confirmed by Professor Borenger, then president of German Archaeological Institute. The head was largely forgotten until 1990 when archaeology student, Roman first off, Romeo.

Romeo Herrstaff began a search for it. Two and a half years later, he located it in storage in the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, misclassified as colonial history, and reviewed the circumstances of discovery and published literature relating to it. On the rediscovery, Ristoff is currently associated with the Department of Anthropology at the University of New Mexico. Yeah. And shout out to him. He's passed away. I tried to get a hold of Romeo. He's dead. I tried to get a hold of Romeo his stroff. It was a great archaeologist, anthropologist at the universe New Mexico. And his son wrote to me and said, hey, he's passed away and was really excited that I was looking into this because that was like one of his things that he was most proud of was his work with this. And so, well, more experts have came back later and said, no, yeah, this is a Roman head. it's just a matter of when did it get in that burial. And to me, you saw the dating. The dating of the actual burial was before the Spanish. And also another good point here is, at the time, you'll see Jose Garcia-Pey-on. They didn't make a big stink about it.

It wasn't like there was like an attempt to say this was a Roman head back then. In other words, it wasn't a hoax. Like somebody didn't put it in there while they were doing it. If it was a hoax, they didn't advertise it. Like they found out 30 years later, like, hey, this is a Roman head, like 30 years later. And so that's really interesting to me. How did that get there? Imagine you're the dude that's like, I'm going to fuck with everyone messaging a bottle type shit.

Throw that statue in there, bitch. It's common. It's happened a lot. There's a lot of archaeological hoaxes like that. Oh, my God. No, no, but I'm saying like, what if you actually did it in like 1495? And you knew, like, yo, they were here. Right.

Right. to tell people. Right. My little message here. Well, they found it years later. So that one's crazy. Yeah, we were just in Rome. Defe of me, we were in Paris in Rome.

Oh, we go so bad. And, you know, I hadn't been in Rome since I lived there, but I'm always just blown away by all the history and the structures and everything. And that looks, you know, this is recency bias on my part, admittedly. But that just looks so on brand. I actually, I think if you go to what I told you to Google, if you go to images, I think my thumbnail that I create. shows a comparison. You can scroll down a little bit here.

Here's the OMAX. Okay. Well, somewhere out there I have made a comparison photo of known Roman heads like that and yeah, the eyes are the exact same, the hair has the same style, it's the same. Yeah. How do you also explain like the fact that we go around the world and we see so many pyramid structures that look so similar? So this comes down to the argument of diffusion, versus isolationism. And I do think that both, once again, like we talked about earlier in the last podcast,

about how they're determinism versus free will, I think there's a blend of both here. So this earth is not that big in the grand scheme of things. And the ancients in the Americas and the ancients in Europe were observing the same stars. They were observing the same things in the sky. And so it makes sense that some things, would develop an isolation and be, maybe not, I don't even know if coincidentally would be the

correct word, but would be similar to each other, or that some things that work in one part of the hemisphere world would also work well in another part of the world. So like a pyramid, right? It's like, it's a, it's a logical thing to build. You know, you stack up until it goes higher. But that doesn't mean that diffusion didn't also take place and that there wasn't some cultural diffusion that was, you know, going far, far, far, far away. Actually, I have another, if you want to talk about cultural diffusion, this is a, can I tell you about the mystery of the T's, please? No, you can't. Of course you can tell me about whatever you want, bro. So go, we're on my PDF here. This is good. Go, I don't even know where we're at here. The mystery of the T's you said? Yeah, the T-shaped windows.

Here we go. Go up a little bit to the very start of this. Oh, who just talked with me about this? Is that Luke or Michael? Yeah, go up to the one more. Let's go up one more. So this is cool. This is something that I've been fascinated with. A lot of people love the T-shaped pillars at Gobeckley-Tepe, right? Yeah.

I'm big into, those are awesome, but I'm big into the T's of the Americas. Hugh was talking about this, right? You know, Hugh Newman in his work? Hugh, I just met him. And I presented this at the conference that Hugh was at. Hugh's presentation at that conference, by the way, was like, mind-blowing. I really don't know a lot about Gobeckley-Tepe in general, and he was just blowing my mind with some of these solstice and equinox markers that he threw out there, he got a lot of

criticism for it. But then some of those guys that were even criticizing him did some of the math and said, Hugh, you might be on to something here. Dude, I agree. I knew that was going to be a fun podcast. I wasn't like crazy familiar with his work before he came in. I'm like, all right, yeah, let's do this. That sounds like a good idea. And then Dief and I were just like, yeah, because he had the, he had the, he had the, he had the, he had the, he had the, he had the HTML in all day. He's like, and then if you look over here.

Yeah. And we're just like, holy shit. But it was some amazing stuff. Him and Michael Button were my favorite talks at the quest for the ancient civilization in the conference. So here what we have, these are all pictures that I've personally taken. So Colorado in the Southwest is where I first heard about the mystery of the T's or the T-shaped window enigma.

And I actually was not. familiar with them anywhere other than Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and then a stretch of northern Mexico. It always blew my mind that you could also find these in northern Mexico. And that back in the day, I mean, they didn't have the U.S.-Mexican border. It was just there. You know, people were traversing. So if you go down, one more, here's all the ones that I have personally mapped throughout the Americas. And this are T-shaped windows and doors. Wow. Yeah, and the ones in Peru just blew my mind. We'll get to those in a second. But it all starts with this really good archaeologist. Shout out to Dr. Steve Lexon. He's in number 25 right here, the slide 25, if you'll go to the next one.

He, he... This guy. Yeah, this guy right here. He has an... Oh, he's the best. He's retired now, but I've read all these guys. This guy's got the best books on the American Southwest and the history. of the people there.

He's alive? He is still alive. So we get him. He is still alive. He's getting up there in age, but definitely get him. Before he goes. Yes, sir. And so this is one of the big, he'd probably laugh at that.

I think he's a pretty, I think he's a pretty easy going, dude. This is one of the biggest T windows that you can find in the world. And really, this one's a door out in Chihuahua, Mexico. And so if you go to the next slide here, this one's in Chaco Canyon, another big one. This is in New Mexico. And his whole idea was that these were some type of status symbol. That, you know, it wasn't necessarily like a physical reason.

A lot of people wondered, well, is it big like that because they wanted to come in with their, whatever they had on their bag and they needed, or their back and they needed room. Some people hypothesize that, well, you can poke your head out of it and shoot a bone and arrow. he thought that this was some type of status symbol. And I think that maybe could be accurate. And I'll tell you why in just a second. Well, mainly because he's the man and he said so. And I like, I trust his judgment.

But so I keep going here. One thing else to note is that at Chaco Canyon, they found, I believe, 17 skeletons of Scarlet McCaw Parrots in the excavation in New Mexico. Like the McCaw's from the Amazon? Yeah. they're beautiful birds but they were they had

they found 17 of them in New Mexico yeah what were they doing in New Mexico and the truth is they were all trading with each other they found Colorado turquoise down like Guatemala I believe it's not possible I just to poke a hole in that it's not possible that the McCau's had some sort of different evolutionarily

within you know reason to be in that environment not native to New Mexico they were in fact these ones were like kind of deformed and meaning that they were probably even bred maybe in captivity and then traded along the routes. They were very highly revered.

They were very valuable for their feathers. They would make all kinds of stuff out of their feathers. Yeah, they are good, dude, you got to see those things in person. They're amazing. They have also found cacao in Chaco Canyon, the ingredient for chocolate. Yeah, yeah. Copper bells. So all of this was being traded from Mesoamerica,

you know, Guatemala all the way up north. And so if we keep going here, I went on this expedition to Piedras Negerous Guatemala. Right side is Guatemala. Left side is Mexico. And you can play the video on the next screen. Oh, yeah, that's right. We can't play the video on the PDF.

So here's me on the boat. And if you keep going, eventually, I find this T shape. Oh, I guess we can't play the video, can we? Yeah, basically here at Piedras Negress, I found another T-shaped window. And this was the furthest south I had seen any. There's a lot more at Palenque and Chiapas, Mexico. There's some in Pueblo, Mexico that I've taken pictures of.

And when I was down in Peru, someone told me you should check out Ravash. I've heard there's T-shapees there. And Ravash is a cha-chopoious burial, like, mausoleum that they have in the high up in the Andes or the Amazonian Andes that looks similar to the cliff dwellings that you find out in the American Southwest, and they have tea-shaped windows on them. And so the symbol of the tea, like, what is it? If you keep going, there's a Maya glyph that looks like a tea. Keep on going, called Iqway. So here's me and Chiapas with some of the T's in the background. Keep on going down until you find the glyph. There it is. Right in one more. And Ick means wind. And my good friend,

what am I looking on here? This right here is a Maya glyph that has that T-ship symbol in it. And remember- It's a re-rendering it. It's a drawing. It's a drawing, but it's a no and Maya symbol. And Ick means wind. And my good friend, Luke, Caverns called me one time when he was in one of those Mayan temples out there. And he's like, dude, I found some T windows. And as soon as I got in there, it's like it was this natural air conditioner. Like it was like capturing the wind and it was coming through with pressure. And so he was wondering, you know, ick wind. Like, is that what, is that what these windows are for? It's just a way to capture more air and filter it through. Who knows? But you see it all throughout the Americas. And

all the way from Colorado down to Peru, you can find these amazing tea windows. And so that's always been one of my favorite little mysteries of the Americas is why do these tea windows keep popping up in cultures that definitely were not in contact with each other? But with diffusion, the reason I brought all this up is we were talking about isolationism versus diffusion. Ideas and good ideas especially,

always travel further than humans even do. Like the idea itself will travel. Sometimes that idea is naturally from isolationism because a good idea over here is a good idea over here sometimes it's through word of mouth and just cultural diffusion so God I wish they wrote it all down

better yet had iPhones to capture snapschats along the way would be sick man I know right I think if like you know the time machine scenario look if you could have a time machine oh that's an impossible question I think for me it's somewhere in the Americas for sure I could never answer I think like the height of the,

the height of the Inca Empire would be really interesting. I think, you know what? I think Mike Ritlin asked me that when I was on this podcast. Maybe it wasn't when we were on air. And I was like, I can't answer that. But like the only one I was like,

well, I guess maybe like ancient room. Right. Just fucking live in the middle of it. For sure. There's so many places I want to go, bro. I want to know where the fucking aliens at. You know what I mean? Like, send me back to like 3,000 Egypt.

Let me see some shit. You know what I mean? You want to talk about aliens? Or mummies? Yeah, well, we're going to get to the mummies in a second. But before we do that, you believe aliens have been here? Yeah, have been here to Earth. I interviewed one of the more credible UFO stories I've ever heard in my life is I interviewed a guy named Ronnie Johnson.

It's on my YouTube channel. It's one of my most watcher videos. and whatever these, I don't know if they're us or if they're aliens, but like the UFO phenomenon's 100% real for sure. Meaning seeing things that you can't explain. Right, UFOs. I believe that some of this might be, like Carl Jung talked about the electromagnetic spectrum and psychoid realities in like,

archetypes, you know, that throughout history, people have always seen stuff in the sky. And it's always changed a little bit. In the 1800s, it was like these weird blimps. You know, you go back to France and what, like, 500 AD or whatever, they saw the crosses in the sky. And that maybe these UFOs, these metallic flying objects are some type of archetype in our consciousness. And some of it's maybe, you know, George Knapp, I've read his book on hunt for the skin walkers. So maybe some of its consciousness, but like, are they physical beings coming from another planet and visiting Earth? Like, I don't know the answer to that. But I do think there's, like, demons in the Bible. These entities, like, probably exist and probably are visiting us.

Yeah. So I'm open-minded. Same. on, you know, finding new evidence of things, whether it be in history or things in recent history and stuff that's happened that ends up having some sort of proven explanation that says this is not human, whatever that may mean. You know, it also, the definition of alien gets interesting because I always cite this example and it's just my own. It's not defined. But, you know, when you watch the movie Interstellar, Matthew McConaughey leaves Earth one day, he comes back, aged like a year or two and he comes back to an earth that has moved whatever it was 85 90 years right to me he is someone from a different time coming back to a place that is different than he left it

by literal longevity of him leaving it therefore he is an alien right so it's like you also got to get to like well what is an alien or is there such thing as future humans have people figured out how to do time travel and all that i don't know but what i do know is a couple things mathematically when you look at the probabilities of the universe and a really nice conversation with David Kipping about this who's fucking awesome and he'll be back for sure he was I did 258 with there 358 with him he was great but you know when you think about just how vast the galaxy is and how much of it we still don't know about the idea that there isn't mathematically probable that there is other

intelligent life out there to me is almost that is zero same right like does that mean it's all over the place And does that mean they're visiting Earth? Exactly. It doesn't mean that it's all over the place because the number of things that have to go right for a habitable world to produce intelligent life is, I mean, it's extensive, right? We're a rarity. We're not common. But when you don't even know how big the galaxy is, it could be anywhere.

And to your point, exactly. Like, you don't know if they have come here. What I will say is that I'm sure people could notice I have covered that. stuff a lot less over the past year plus. You know, I had him my friend Chris Ramsey, who's like a historian of all the different stories that come together. That was a lot of fun. But outside of that, I have not talked about aliens with people that aren't fucking physicists where it's a scientific explanation because so much of the noise that has been injected into this space, whether it be people that I've had on who worked in the fucking government, which you know that risk when you take it

when you bring that on or the people that they bring forth as witnesses is just so off. And, you know, I did one with a good friend of mine, James Fox, who brought Jason Sands in here. And the story, you know, Jason has a, to his credit, has as a former military member and all that, like he has some severe PTSD. His story is wrong. It's not real. Like, I hate to break it to people. And it was extremely obvious to me when he was here that it.

It's not real. And I believe that he believes it, but that's not what happened. And it's very clear. And so when I see the people that push that guy hard, hard onto James Fox, and I know who they are, and then I think about all the other stories and people that they've pushed. And guys like Chris Bledsoe, who I do not believe is telling the truth at all, right? Oh, my God, the Iron Lady is going to come down or whatever. By the way, oh, yeah, it's April now. It's going to be October conveniently. And his son's creating a podcast on it. I see stuff like this and I go, too much bullshit. So when I have these conversations, I try to look at it with whatever fucking facts we can find or whatever scientific mathematical probabilities could exist. And I try to keep it to like, you know, some sort of an educated conversation. Does that make

sense? Yeah, totally. And for the record, I'm not in the UFO niche at all. Right. Right. But it's, it's interesting to me and apparently, you know, a lot of these whistleblowers are saying, yeah, a lot of them are ours, but there is a certain percentage that aren't like that are from somewhere.

But I'm also, there's probably political reasons to get everybody worried and scared about aliens. And so I worry about that too. And that's one of the reasons I did the, I ended up feeling compelled to do what I did with the NASCAR mummies once I came to the, I don't know if you want to get into that now. We're, let's do it. We've been teasing it. We were teasing in the last episode,

we just had a great conversation on, on all this other stuff, which is just all fascinating. Your channel's great, man. But the NASCAR mummy thing, I do want to disclose my own personal history with this. Yeah. I was approached about two years ago, almost exactly two years ago, by, I forget the fucking guy's name, but someone representing Jaime. Yeah. What's his last? the mouse son yeah Jaime Mouseon who's like the dude who's been pushing this yeah and one of them but yeah yeah and and I don't I don't have a problem saying this but I got on a zoom call with Jaime Mouse on and my bullshit meter was beeping at a fucking 45 on a scale of one to 10 I respectfully I can't remember talking to someone that within 10 seconds, I was more sure was completely full of shit in a long,

long time. And so I, listen, this is what I mean. You've got to have integrity with this stuff. I could have done a fucking, he wanted to call it. He's like, so when are we doing this? He wanted to come on the podcast. I could have done fucking 1.5 million views on that podcast, recut it up on all the clips, made fucking all kinds of money on it. And I was like, absolutely no. We're never fucking doing this. I never talked to him again. And it made me think that because he's pushing it, the whole story is bullshit. So I have to admit I had immediate bias on that like this is complete bullshit. Yeah. Fast forward. My friend Jesse Michaels, who you now know as well, who also reached out to you, which is great to discuss this. Yeah. Does a whole documentary on it. And I'm like,

oh boy, I get on the phone with Jesse. I talked to him about. I'm like, what do you think? And to his credit, he was not like, it definitely happened. He was like, you know, I kind of want the audience to decide. But he did, his video is nuanced. He did talk to Jaime in there. And I, told him very strongly in New Jersey terms on the phone what I thought of fucking Jaime. But there were other people he talked to as well who I couldn't speak one because I wasn't familiar with them. And frankly, when it came to the rest of the case outside of me like having a very clear lie detector test on Jaime, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm educated or whatever. Yeah. But you have literally gone to the press conferences on this. You've talked

to all the people, including a lot of people that I'm unfamiliar with or maybe. don't even remember that maybe we're in Jesse's documentary. And in your opinion, you believe that this whole thing is not real. A hoax. Right, a hoax. So let's, I want you to go into as much detail as possible. I want you to break it down. Let's start at the beginning for people that don't know what the Nazca mummies are.

Can you just give an explanation of what they are and when they originated as a discussion? Yes. in 2017 there was a mummy that was presented to the public named Maria that is what they call a tridactal being meaning it has three fingers and three toes can we pull that up deep Maria yeah Maria and and and so Gaia is a big Gaia the media company is the big one that released some of the early documentaries on this but the story is that this was found by a walkero which is a grave robber out there. And to be fair, that is who would find an amazing discovery, right?

Like, they have no, this is not Maria, but that's one of the newer ones. But if you put in Maria specifically with the Manascomamius. And so the, there's, you know, there's an institution called the Ankari Institute that was early in on this. Yep, that one with the red background there. That's Maria. And you can see the three fingers there. And immediately they start pushing this as a new species and some type of alien being. They do, you know, they bring out these specialists from Russia. You can never kind of figure out what their actual academic background is. But also immediately, professionals down in Peru, throughout all the noise, are saying, hey, these are fake. There's a lot of, there's a lot of things that are screwed up here with the

anatomy. And we're going to talk about the anatomy here in just a moment. Who were just for context? Who were these professionals? So a guy named Dr. Gizmundi is one of them, Flavio Estrada, who was the head of the Ministry of Culture, and then several other people that I'm losing their name. But Flavio Estrada is like a forensic archaeologist, anthropologist, and then Gizmundi is an anthropologist as well. And so their debunks got drowned out immediately. If you go to my YouTube channel right now, you'll see my debunks are like my least performing videos of the last year.

It's not exactly very popular to say that the alien mummies aren't alien mummies. I think probably because some people just think that it's obvious and then the others that want to believe. Anyways, fast forward to 2023. So these things got debunked a bunch of times over the year. But then in 2003, September, if you remember right, the Mexican Congress, debacle happens where Jaime Mouse Sun shows the Mexican Congress these little mummies, these little three-fingered mummies that are probably about three feet tall. And it goes viral.

It goes absolutely wild. They're talking about it on Colbert Report. They're talking, Nildegras-Tyson weighs in. And immediately they're all dismissed by most people, but these proponents are really hitting it hard. Well, then in December of 2003 slash January, 2004, they find some of these dolls trying to be smuggled through the Lima airport, and they'd go and do scans, and they go, okay, these are animal bones. Case dismissed, these are closed. And this is where I got. Who was trying to smuggle them? There was a person that was from Palpa, the area, where a lot of these are coming from, that claimed that he was just making souvenirs to sell in Mexico. And so it all gets dismissed as a hoax. And this is where I actually got interested.

because to me that wasn't good enough, I knew about Maria, and I knew Maria was not animal bones. Whenever the debunkers were doing this at the beginning, not all of them, but the ones that were in the media, they were saying that these were all a mix of animal bones. But Maria was different. Maria is clearly some type of human, right? That's three fingers and three toes. Spoiler alert, Maria is just a normal homo sapien that's been butchered in Frankenstein, but we'll talk about that in a moment. So I go down there with an iPhone and a drone, and I start getting in contact with a lot of the proponents,

and I am making, and I'm interviewing them, and I make this documentary called Show Me the Mummies, because as much as I tried, they would not show me the mummies. At the time, it was kind of sensitive to go find them. And in that documentary, I'm kind of playing, I'm sitting on the fence. I'm telling you the timeline of the stories. I'm telling you the proponent's side of the story,

and I'm telling you a little bit of the, the naysayers side of the story as well. And then about a year later, I get an opportunity to go actually see Maria for myself. This is in April of 2025. Sorry, let me back up. I was also at the infamous press conference and was like really one of the only English reporters there. The one in Mexico?

The one in Lima that got raided by the Ministry of Culture during the... What happened there? What was that? It's actually on my YouTube. but they were announcing that there were larger mummies that were about to be presented to the public. And during that announcement, this is also when they announced that there were going to be American scientists that were looking into all of this. And during that announcement, the Ministry of Culture came in, took over the press conference, thinking that there were bodies there that they were going to confiscate. Yeah, this is it right here.

If you kind of fast forward, you'll see the drama. back up a little bit, back up, back up to like one third way through. That's Jaime and all that. I'm also going to keep talking. I'm trying to find something. And so this place gets, it made national news, the raid. Go back to like the beginning, beginning. You'll see some of it.

Maybe like three minutes in. And so a fast forward a year later, I get a chance. to actually go see Maria for myself. And around this time, I'm also viewing the skeptic side of the argument a lot more serious. And when I see Maria for the first time in person, and if you go to my, you don't have to go now, but when you get a chance, if you go to my PDF, here's the raid, by the way. It was just absolute chaos in there. I have a image in my PDF, one of the first photos that shows Maria in 2017 versus Maria now. And my alarm bells just start screaming right here.

You can see this diatomacious earth that she's covered in or plastered in, in my opinion, is starting to completely erode away. And if you zoom in, Joey, on that chin of the 2025 image, like zoom in really close to the chin, go to the right, yep, there appears to be like fiberglass tape right there. Something is, Maria is starting to reveal herself.

So I start getting really skeptical and there's a guy named Dr. Dan, and I was already skeptical, but there's a guy named Dr. Dan Proctor, a bioanthropologist that specializes in the hands and the feet. And he had been for like two years trying to get a hold of a lot of people that were studying this. And he believes that there is clear evidence that Maria, and if you go to slide three here, has had her hands and feet amputated.

And one of the things that convinced me, and I am not an expert in anatomy, but you can see it for yourself right here. You'll see where it says trapezium distal articular surface. That appears to be what that is. That's where the thumb bone or the metacarpal one of the thumb bone should be attached to. And if something evolved with three fingers,

there should be no reason that that that trapezium distal articular surface, which looks exactly like ours, there should be no reason that that's there. And then for good measure, if you go to the next slide in four, that metacarpal one that's missing from there appears to be, in this,

by metacarpal one, I mean the thumbbone. They appear to have put it in the second phalanche. Yep, go back, go to it four right there. They appear to have put it in the second phalangee right there. And so they're Frankensteining these things. And so in December, I guess in August or July, I'd seen a picture of these giant heads that were clearly fake. And I could send you some pictures of those later. And this was with the whistleblower Waukerro, the guy that supposedly found Maria.

He's posing with these fake giant heads. And I just knew that that image, once it went public, because I was told I couldn't released it because somebody had the exclusive rights to it. I basically told them, I was like, tell them they got four months because like people need to know about this. And once it came out, all hell broke loose, people started calling these a hoax again. And that's when me, myself, Dr. Proctor, Dr. Joseph Wilson, an archaeologist at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, And then a radiographer that I met on Twitter named Shelley got really involved when we made that video. And then fast forward real quick.

I've recently interviewed Dr. William Morrison, who's the former president of the Society of Skeletal Radiology, probably about one of the best people you could talk to about this. And we gave him the raw dicom scans of four of the big mummies. you know, a lot of people say, well, of course, the small ones are fake, but the big ones are, we didn't even touch the small ones for that reason. We just were focusing on the big ones. And he tore these things apart. How so? For example, there's one, there's one mummy named Paloma that has human hand bones in her feet. Human hand bones in her feet. Maria, the original mummy, has a clear cut at her Liz Frank joint.

Yeah. And the fascia and the tendons didn't retract back, meaning it was probably cut after mummification. One of my favorite ones is Antonio. Here, there's Paloma. Antonio is a mummy that has teenage bones all over their body except for their feet. Their feet appear to be like an elderly man's with arthritis and closed growth plates. There's so many other examples. I think in slide, Joey, if you go to...

to one of my next slides. To me, this is my favorite one. Go to the next one. So the two most famous mummies are Maria and Montserrat. And Montserrat is the one that supposedly has the tridactal three fingered fetus inside of her. We'll talk about that one in a moment. But Maria here has four phalanches and Montserrat has three.

And so once this came out, their pivot was, well, they must be a different species. And so the thing is this whole scam has been going on for a long time. The playbook for this hoax has been going on for a long time. A lot of the doctors that was brought out by Jaime Moussin and team, Dr. Salcei Benitez, were involved in the 2015 Roswell Slides Hooks, if you want to pull that out. Yeah, yeah, what was that? So I might even have slides for it. But by the way, you can, this is all like coming back to me to, like when, when,

when I was contacted and all that. I try to be like very upfront with people and stuff. But sometimes when there's like something very scammy, you get on a phone call with someone or a video chat and you're like, all right, sounds good. Yeah, we'll do one. You get off and you're like, okay, how am I going to get out of this? Something that you can do sometimes is first of all,

I make people come here so that helps. And you can always tell by how they react and how they want to schedule how much of this is just a press splits. And I remember before I ghosted them. like they were like oh we want you to he called me he's like I want you to come out to Los Angeles and record there right like when we're doing this big press conference I remember that press conference they wanted to roll it out and I was like no no no I record in New York in my studio that said okay and then they hit me up and they're like all right what dates work I was like

maybe like two months down the line or something like that yeah after the press conference and then they're like okay yeah we'll fly out there after that yeah and I didn't say anything about like getting their travel or anything like that. And then it died on the vine because I wasn't doing their fucking press conference rollout. It wasn't going to be time that way. They weren't just going to like pick off a quick, you know, view session to be able to say, look, Julian Dory picked it up. And then this fucking guy picked it up and that guy picked it up. Like you can tell behind the scenes like with some of this stuff, the salacious stuff, there's just some certain tells where it's like, okay, this is just marketing.

Yeah, dog and pony show marketing. But please go through the 2015. Speaking of press conferences, they love their press conferences. Scroll down a little bit. I'll show you something funny here. So keep on going. Keep on going. And so here's the Roswell Slides hoax.

Let me go back to this real quick. Roswell Slides hoax is a 2015, Jaime Moussen and team, said that this photo right here was an image of an alien from the Roswell Slides crash. And Dr. Al-Sebanitez, which is in the next frame right here, actually, the first time we've ever heard about three-fingered aliens is in 2015, before anyone ever knew about the NASCAR mummies, in this press conference right there, he says, this being only has three fingers. We can be certain that this being only has three fingers. Well, they didn't think to do a freedom of information act

request with the National Park Service to try to figure out where this picture came from. If you go to the next image, I hope this is okay to show. This is a dead Native American child. Let's make a note of that, D. Like, people will just have to look this up themselves because we can't have this on the screen. We'll just make this full screen with you and I looking at it in the post edit.

That's good. Okay. It does look like a dead human. I'm not going to lie. That was taken at the Mese Verde Museum in Colorado. And this was found in Arizona, a place called Montezuma's Castle. And if you zoom in real quick, I want to make a point,

zooming on that left hand, and I know the people won't be able to see this, but just so everyone knows, you see a thumb there, right, Julian, you see back there, there's clearly a thumb right there. We're deeps. Yep. Okay. That's a thumb.

Oh, yeah, I see it. Yeah. Okay. Now, let's go to the next slides here. And for those that are listening, I'm kind of going to try to make a point right here. So. Yeah, yeah, now you can show us.

Speaking of press conferences, they really like their press conferences. On the left here is the Roswell Slides hoax press conference 2015. On the right is the NASCAR Mummy's hoaxed press conference 2017, exact same characters. By the way, Dr. Jose de la Cruz is not a doctor. He does not have a PhD in biology. How does he get away with that? They just throw shit at the wall. It's, it's, they.

Is he a doctor in gender studies or something? No, he's like a local biologist. but he is not a doctor, he's not a PhD. And they brought him out for the Roswell Slides hoax. And they brought out Zalse Benitez, who's like the number one doctor that everyone cites for the NASCAR Mami's hoax. And then you can see these same guys

in the early days of the NASCAR Mammies. So if you go to slide 14 right here, this just makes me laugh. This is still doctor, and it's not a doctor, but this is... This is De La Cruz. Yeah, that's true. We probably can't show this.

My point is he's still promoting these mummies. And if you zoom in on his banner, he hides the thumbs. They're still saying their three fingers. All he changes it so people, because you can't see what we're looking at. He tweeted this at me a week ago. He's still promoting the Roswell slides. Let me explain this just because people can't see this if you don't mind. So on the right side, we have the picture that we can't show, which is why this is not on your screen right now. But Dief, if you go over to the left real quick. He basically recreated this in like a textbook kind of real life size breakdown with a bunch of labels and stuff and removed the thumb right there.

Remove the thumb. And my point of telling you all this is whatever. Like, I don't even like, in my first video, I didn't even really call this out because I was hoping I didn't have to, but people asked for why you think this is a hoax. People are really curious. Why are you your experts more credible than their experts. Well, my experts haven't been pushing the Roswell hoax for the last decade. They haven't been, if you look up the Metapet creature or the demon fairy, a lot of these same guys were the demon fairy. The demon fairy? A lot of the same DNA guys that they brought out for the Dascomami's were used to try to confirm the demon fairy that Jaime Mousin was.

All right, real quick, I just have to go to the bathroom, but let's talk about the demon fairies. And all right, All right, we're back. Demon fairies. Demon fairies. So a lot of the, one of the guys they brought out for the NASCA mummies

to do some of the early DNA test was also involved in doing the DNA test of this demon fairy that you see here on the screen, which ended up being a bat that they, which, and if you want to kind of play it, you know, you'll see how ridiculous this is.

This thing is just full of bat, bones. It was a desiccated bat. They proved it once outside specialist actually got involved. But they did bring out this guy right here to basically say, no, it's not a hoax. The DNA is showing that it's... And who's this guy? This is Ricardo. Ricardo Ronghel. And he's supposedly a geneticist expert. And then he did the same thing with the Medipac creature, which ended up being a monkey that they also promoted as an alien. And so, listen, this is the MEPT creature right here. My whole point of this isn't even the flame on this.

Like, whatever. I like funny stories. Like, I like entertainment, entertaining television. But now we're talking about people desecrating ancient bodies. It's crazy. Human bodies. That's crazy. And people say they haven't been making any money on this.

Oh. There's been people making money. There's big organizations that sell subscriptions to these documentaries that are making money off this. And that's the other thing. Like you mentioned Gaia as well. So my friend Darcy Weir has done some, I think you just made another documentary. I've met Darcy. Yeah.

So Darcy did some amazing work on this and charting, like went through all the depositions from when they got sued and everything and admitted that all their, they had, the creators admitted that it's all bullshit. And that's why, like, Darcy was, to his credit, was on to the Jason Sands story from day one when Jason Sands came out because he realized it was like the scene in Step Brothers where the psychiatrist is like, isn't this just the plot to Goodwill Hunting? He's like, no. Yeah. It's the same thing. The things Jason and the terminology Jason was using and telling his story were quite literally

lifted from this shit that Guy was pushing that they admitted under oath they completely made up. Yep. And Darcy, shout out to him. I was unaware of who Darcy was until this happened. And Darcy debunked these in like 2018, the NASCAR Mummies. He did a documentary with Brian Forrester. If it's the same Darcy I'm thinking about, I'm pretty sure it is. I believe it is. And so he reached out right away and was super helpful just helping me wrap my mind around all this because he's been on it since 2018. It's, you know, forget all the people who bamboozle people and make money on this and defraud people and do it. It's fraud if something like this is actually what the evidence seems to show it is, which is that it does appear fraudulent. But, you know, it's also the kind of stuff that sets back the credibility of people trying to actually find truth on these things decades.

You know, like there was such a unique opportunity here with Christopher Mellon coming out in 2017, walking out of the Pentagon and going to the New York Times to put this into the actual zeitgeist of like... UFOs. Right. Yeah. Like this can be a seriously taken subject. Such unique opportunity and watching so many scammers and idiots blow it has been really difficult because I would, like, when I talk to David Kipping about this shit,

when I talk to Claudia Doram about this shit, when I talk to Lee Krona about this shit, I'm so interested because there's immense possibilities. And it's certainly meaning of life type stuff. But like the people who have dominated the conversation, unfortunately, are not those people. Yep, for sure. And let me tell you, part of it's a media complex.

It's not, if you're trying to, people are saying that I'm, grifting by hitting this topic so hard. I've lost money this last month. It is not a very profitable. It's not popular to do this. Debunking a new species of human or an alien is not actually very popular. In fact, it kind of gets pushed to the wayside. I wonder what. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of people have kind of dug their heels in or even poured cold water on some of this because I think that they had their skin in the game. already. They had, you know, a sunk cost with already maybe plans to make a documentary in the future. And actually, shout out to Jesse Michaels. He called me day one wanting to know what I knew.

Yeah, I love that. He called me day one. And really on the proponent's side of things, you know, Jesse was really the only one that like reached out genuinely wanting to know what this bioanthropologist who has papers that specialize on the evolution of the hands and the feet and what this radiologist, who's one of the best radiologists in the world, had to say about this, he gave them all a platform. I don't want to speak to, I don't know when that's coming out, but yeah, so. And I do, I do want to say because Jesse's a friend, Jesse really does give a shit. Yeah, he does.

You know, and there's stuff like, first of all, brilliant guy, brilliant guy, you know. Wicked smart, super smart. Yeah, great to talk with awesome dude. I had him in back for episode 240 back in 2024, but we'll do another one at some point here as well. Like, he really is a fan of this stuff and he really does believe in this stuff. And like, there are some stories he covers that like he's like, well, maybe there's a chance that I'm like, I don't think so. And that's fine. But he is genuinely curious to the point that he doesn't just come in.

And when someone like yourself may go make a case that's against something that he's like, oh, this would be really cool if it's true. and be like, well, I'm not going to talk to that guy. And you need more people like Jesse who come at it from like a genuine basis like that to be in the space. I mean, you're putting your, you know, it's a pretty wild topic to be covering. And so occasionally stuff like this is going to happen. And for sure. His YouTube channel is, it's so good. It's got so much great momentum that if these, in my opinion, when these end up being accepted by the.

public that they're a hoax is it's not going to hurt Jesse. No. And, and, and so, yeah, shout out of day one. He did that documentary, by the way, I want to say this. There's nuance to it. There was nuance to it. He allowed the audience to decide open-ended on the end. I had a great conversation with him a few days later as well.

Like, that was absolutely fine. You can't be afraid to do something that's later going to be like, eh, that was wrong. That's the whole point of investigating this stuff. So people should not give that shit. Oh my gosh. Like the amount of shit that I've like gotten wrong or half wrong or should have presented it another way, you know, people give or people are giving him shit right now because obviously his video, uh, it got like a million views.

It really started the conversation for these going kind of mainstream again. But actually his video is what helped me tie a few more pieces together when it came to some of these characters that we just talked about. Zalse, uh, Dr. Zalze Benita. saying that the tridactal fetus had three fingers. You know, that's the one that everyone really hangs up on. It turns out that image that he was using,

and I actually have this on my PDF, if you find, like, the image of the scans of the three fingers. Go up just a little bit. Right there. It's a cherry-picked image from what Dr. William Morrison said is, an image basically that you can't make a diagnostic on. It's too blurry. What was this?

Okay. Dr. William Morrison, the radiology guy I was talking about. And he even thinks that if you look close enough at the unchary-picked image, like the one that's just like the top left, that you could actually probably count five fingers, but they, this is what they cherry-picked out of that. And so they call that windowing. I have a video. Windowing?

Yeah. I don't really know what it means, but I have a Dr. William Morrison's on my latest YouTube video titled This Is a Hoax. The title of the video, This Is a Hoax, the NASCA Alien Mummy scam. And Dr. William Morrison tears this part of it. Can we pull that up and play that? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do that.

So once again, Dr. William Morrison here. I'll bet, by the way, I'll bet your video. Sorry to cut you off, but I'll bet your video if you had. just titled it, investigating the Nazca mummy, whatever. Are these real? Right. They would have done very well. Probably.

Probably. But, you know, this is an end of the chapter for me. So I wasn't, I mean, it'd be nice to get some views on this thing. But yeah, so if you go to the description, I did put timestamps. I don't know why they didn't break them into chapters. But you can see one of those is going to talk about Dr. William Morrison doing the three-fingered. Got it. Okay.

Let's get some volume on this. Bad boy. So this is the former president of the Society of Skeletal Radiology. Okay. Where? He is an academic radiologist now, but he's practiced all, you know, in all kinds of. Okay. All right. Let's roll it. Typically, they removed the trapezeum. So this is a carpal bone that attaches to the thumb. And the trapezeum attaches to the scape... Pause that. Did we click on the right one? That's the... Dr. William Morrison confirms Maria's thumb has been moved.

No, do the, you were going to want to do, okay, 0627, the tridactal three-fingered fetus. Fine, let's factor. Okay, here we go. Fast forward to 2024 and 2025, shortly after it was announced that the mummy Montserrat was pregnant. It was Dr. Zalcay Benitez that popularized the idea that this fetus had three fingers.

At the bottom, there are limbs positioned at the level of the skull. In front of this, we find it extended in a position directed towards the head. If that... They would be able to spot it. If that doctor has the curiosity to be very careful, he will say, this baby has three fingers in the hands and in their sheets. To start, I mean, this is in radiology, what we call it. a non-diagnostic image.

It's too low resolution to really make any cogent descriptions of what's going on here. It's a bag of bones. It's low resolution. Everything is mixed up. So what they did was they, it looks like there's extra digits. They windowed it at such that it looks like they removed the ones that were lower density, lower brightness.

That's just my impression that, It's wishful thinking on their part. They wanted to see three, so they saw three. But to me, it's kind of funny when you see what looks like five things there, and they removed two of them. These two aren't the only experts involved with the next. So throughout that entire video, I just kind of will cut the clips of Dr. William Morrison just tearing these things apart.

This is where the amputation happened on the Lilid's frank joint. They have hand bones in their feet. they've removed the metacarpal one and they've put it in the second phalangea. The trapezium distal surfaces. I mean, he just breaks these things down for four of the big mummies. He looked at four of them.

So a lot of people are trying to say How many are their total now? Supposedly the Waukero has like hundreds of different, at least pieces of different mummies. And every now and then we see some freak freakish little demon mummy come out. Some are small,

some are big. And so as for the big ones, I think there's like eight. And yeah, right now they are in just total damage control mode, calling Dr. William Morrison a liar, calling me a grifter, calling Dr. Proctor a liar. But the good news is for the truth is this is blown past the NASCAR mummy safe space. Dr. Morrison in this video tells me that next year at their Society of Radiology, conference and then also another big conference which brings in 60,000 radiologists to Chicago in person that he's going to submit it for presentation. And when you submit something in presentation, it goes through a peer review process. And this is all blown past, this little, you know,

experts' opinion of what these things are. It's about to be in front of a lot of radiologists that, quite frankly, laugh it. This is a joke to them. That's what I'm saying. No, unfortunately, there's going to be a subset of people and it's not 10 people who are full blown I want to believe and even if shown the greatest evidence will say it's not real and they'll say it's academia so of course they're going to debunk it as other parts of academia have debunk things incorrectly in the past in other spaces and that's the that's the unfortunate part because to me it's and maybe that's just because I'm also a little biased from the beginning because I talked to Jaime and it's just you know I'm not a human lie detector.

but I mean if you had been on that fucking call. Yeah, I interviewed him too. And Jaime, you know, he's a charismatic, magnetic guy. I've heard he's a lot of fun to be around. You interviewed him. I did interview him. And I interviewed him twice, once in person, kind of off the cuff when the Naskan Mommy's press conference got rated.

And then also on Zoom for my original documentary. I liked him. I'm sure he's pissed at me right now. but hey, like, it is what it is. Like, this is wild. And I owed my audience, like, a formal opinion after two years on this. And, yeah, it's people want to say, well, what if these were ancient artifacts? Maybe they did this in ancient times and it's not actually a hoax.

First of all, even if that was true, this is still a hoax at this point. They've been pushing this so hard. Second of all, there's reasons that that's not true. And it's in my video. But several, there's so many reasons we could talk about. I'll name a couple of them. We got time. There have been cuts on the tendons and the fascia of these mummies.

And those fascia and tendons, like if you were to tear your bicep, it would roll up into your arm, right? These cuts do not have any retraction, which Dr. Morrison believes indicates that these cuts were made after mummification, after desiccation of this body. And there's a doctor, there's a paleontologist named Dr. Julian Benoit that had this same analysis back in 2018 of some of these. And actually I have an image where you can see. It's the green image on the PDF of her like hand. If you go down, up a little bit right there. So Maria has five extensor tendons and one of them is clearly cut at the thumb. And yeah, there's no retraction there according to Dr. Moon.

What about the pinky? Do we have see a cut there? Yeah. So Dr. Proctor, in some of his original work, talks about it's clearly there's distal surface where the pinky should be as well. The thumb's so much easier to identify that for people that we really focused on that. But yeah, and all of these, the same thing happens over and over again. And what was the element, I can't remember if we were on camera, off camera, in between talking about this. So apologies if this was said on camera a little bit ago. But what was the element of organized crime as well? this you uncovered? Well, these mummies are selling on the black market, the black antiquities market for Maria was listed for a million dollars. By who? By the people that supposedly found these or in my opinion constructed. And some of the smaller ones are selling for like, they're listed for $20,000, $30,000. And you think organized, you have evidence that organized crime

is handling that. I mean, that is organized crime. But. Yeah, but are these actual like mafia organizations in Peru? I've been told that that's what's going on. Who told you that? There's people on there. There's a lot of stories about people that have went down trying to get to the bottom of some of this. And...

Not today, Chico. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and I can't tell you that quite a few different people that have told me that. But it's a well-known thing. I think not to speak for him, but well, I'll save what I was going to say there. But these things, there's more to that with the modern-day hoax.

If you look at early pictures of Maria in like 2017, she has like stroke marks on her face. Like just like paint, like somebody like brushed like brush marks, I could say. It's not actual paint, but like they were molding and all that's gone. All of that is gone. And then the best, what I think is some of the best evidence of this is there's actually been whistleblowers. Steve Mara is a guy that in September, 2003, came out with the documentary saying that these were all a hoax, and he had been investigating them for six years. And he kind of got blown off up by everybody.

And in that documentary, he shows a walkerow whistleblower saying, I'm the one that went and got them the fetus. I went and got them the body parts for all of these. I've went and got their Frankenstein. He tells them how they did it, that they have this factory basically where these taxidermists are coming together and making these things. Taxidermis. According to Steve Mara, his people on the ground said two taxidermists were involved. And why I find that compelling is Steve Mara in September 2023 predicted, he said, his walkero whistleblowers told him that a bigger mummy was being constructed. And at the time, the only big mummies we had seen was Maria.

When I'm saying big mummies, I mean the humanoid ones, the human ones. Five months later at that press conference that I went to, they announced Montserrat and all these other ones. And Steve Mera's prediction came true. And so there's so many things that show that this is a hoax that, like, the people that need to explain on that are the ones that are saying it's not. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's time to, like, put up or shut up, shut up. Yeah. Shit or get off the pot. Like, um, they can't peer review because there's no provenance.

There's a chain of custody has, no one knows about it. And they know that. And if, even if they could, it would, there are hand bones, there are human handbones in Paloma's feet. They know, they, they, I think some of these guys know this. They have to. They're just, they're liars. Yeah.

And, um, you know, after the Roswell slides hoax in 2015, they doubled down. They doubled down and they said, nope, it's not a two-year-old Native American child. That's wrong. Yeah, he changed the fucking diagram. He removed the thumb on the diagram. Yep, exactly. That's a lie. Exactly. And they didn't ever, I mean, to this day, that biologist is still promoting it. So in the end, will this make the NASCA mummies go away? hopefully for like smart people that want to be grounded in reality

and want the truth hopefully it's like we had congressmen that we're about to go to Peru and take pictures with these things like that. You know, it was starting to become a big deal. At least they pulled out. Well, I don't know yet. They might still be gone.

Are you talking about like Burchett? Not Burchett. What's the other guy's name from Missouri? I had heard that there was plans from a couple of them to go check these things out down in Peru. And I hope that they've seen the message because these are a complete bullshit. There's nothing wrong with being an open-minded congressman.

These mummies are not it. Where's the Peruvian government today in 2026 as it relates to this? The Ministry of Culture just released some paperwork that basically make Maria. And then a little baby mummy called Wauwita, which even the proponents admit is butchered, it just relates documentation that makes them cultural artifacts. And so the mummy people took that as a win because, like, this shows that Maria is authentic,

not manipulated. If you read the fine text, they say she's a homeless, like she's a human being homo sapien. And so. Yeah. Well, and they don't really, it's kind of vague. but at the end of the day the anatomy the problems of the anatomy

are always going to be there they're bringing out DNA specialists now to try to figure out what's going on they're going to have to I hope they do do that and I hope it gets peer reviewed I hope you can do it in a way that gets peer reviewed guys like this don't let that happen

at the end of the day Paloma has handbones in her feet Montserrat has three phalanges while Maria has four Maria has her articular surface of where her thumb should be clearly there. There's clearly amputations at the feet. And those are the questions that all these well-meaning investigators that are going down there need to now make sure they're telling their audience.

Make sure you're telling your audience about the Roswell Slides hoax and who was involved with that. Because I keep seeing Zalse Benitez and all of his credentials, he worked for the Mexican Navy being rolled out. Well, let's also talk about the Roswell Slides hoax, just to make sure everyone has the information out there. on the judgment, the past judgment of some of these experts. That's what these guys do, though.

They doubled down even when presented with the truth and then change the narrative. They changed the subject. Oh, we were talking to, yeah, I don't worry about that anymore. By the way, it was true. Now we're onto this. Constantly. And you see this again and again. And it creates a lot of cynics in the space.

And I hate to see that. But, you know, it's important that, you know, where there's a case to be made and someone with a balance head like you who's gone to these fucking press conferences by the way talk to all the people involved talk to other experts who can review this from a scientific medical perspective you know is willing to come out and and tell that story and report it as it is and like you said like if you end up being wrong about something you're someone that will say you're wrong totally but i think in a situation like this you're dealing with people on the other side that you can't say the same about no absolutely not um

This whole thing is like, the people that are still hanging on to this are just, I really think that there's been psychological damage done to a lot of these people. They've made it their identity. Yes. This has became a cult. Yes. And as a result, they'll never, they'll never admit it. You know, there's a lot of double standards. People are saying, well, how could you say that these are a hoax?

You haven't even had peer review yet. It's like, you guys have been saying that these are alien mummies for the last. nine years. There hasn't been one peer review, none. And that's because they can't. They know they can't. It would get cooked. Day one. They're clearly fake. Yeah. And I wonder like if there's something behind it. Like I was thinking about some of the guys that pushed Jason Sands on James Fox. And I know, let's just say they're coming from the government. It's like, what's the motive here? Is it to deflect from an actual truth?

Is that actual truth something that is alien or not of this world? Or is it something else that's human that they don't want people to know about? Or is it both? You know, thinking about that was probably the most spooky part of deciding to go ahead and do this. I do want to just say, I think this is a localized hoax. This one. Yes. However, that doesn't mean it wasn't good enough that somebody with,

some poll goes, ah, that might be a cool thing to muddy the waters with for whatever political reason, you know? And so all of a sudden, we got all, we have several congressmen that are interested in this, you know, people are becoming more open-minded about it. And in my opinion, it's reached his peak. Like, there's a lot of bagholders now, so to say, with these mummies. Because the peak, in my opinion, was probably a couple months ago. I don't think it's ever going to get back to there. I think people are starting to wake up to it. But as to what you said, as to what you said, I don't know. But yeah, like I hope there's not some intelligence agency or something like that messing around with this. Because, you know, if that's the case, you know, I'm sure they're not

very happy with me right now. Well, it's an or maybe that's part of the plan, by the way. You know, maybe it's a big thing to blow it up so that people then it, you flood the zone with noise and then People are like, you know what? It's all bullshit. Yeah. That could totally be, because that was my thought with the Jason Sands thing because the claims were so fucking insane. Yeah.

That it's like, and then Darcy Weir had it perfectly charted back to the guy at depositions, like word for word, bar for bar. Yeah. It was like, the soldier boy, he stole my flow. Word for word, bar for bar for bar. It's like, it is indisputable. Yeah. And so I'm like, all right, why are objectively smart people pushing this, knowing his

medical record, by the way. They knew his medical record of some of the stuff that he was, because I do not want to demonize Jason. I want to be clear about that. Yeah. Jason, I, as a human being, I got along with and I understood. And we, you know, I really understood, like, he admitted to having PTSD on his record and some of these other things and some of the therapies that he was put through for that. But also, when you go through, it wasn't just military. When you go through his whole life, he had a very traumatic childhood. The first 32 minutes of episode 267 are very telling. Yeah.

I didn't know anything about that. We came in here. I did basically like an hour and a half podcast with James Fox and him. We were talking about James' new documentary at the time. And then we went and took a break. I said, all right, podcast two. I was like, Jason, let's just get down to it. I said, where are you from?

Or something like that? Where were you born? And he tells his whole childhood story, which, you know, it had us in like borderline tears. Yeah. Hearing it. And so as a human being, like I told him to his face afterwards. I said, Jason, I don't think these things happened. But I know you were in the military. I know you served out there on Ellis. I saw all the paperwork for that. Thank you for doing that. And I really appreciate being so open about stuff because it's very clear to me that I don't think you're lying. I think you really believe the things you're saying. Because of some of the things that have happened to you and, you know, take that for what it's worth. But that does not change the fact that there are people who know. knew he had these issues who decided to still push him. I mean, they were aggressive telling James to put him in that documentary. James was really like, I don't know, but then he trusted those guys and it bit him in the ass.

Yeah. And that's, I mean, to be fair, I guess 2015 has been a long time ago, but it's not that long. And you can go look up any of this stuff. That's right. And the story needs to be told in full now. this playbook that we've seen with the NASCAR mummy is the press conferences the experts the DNA the you know all the bullshit it's happened over and over again for a long time and it's media it's storytelling it's uh you know it's it's selling subscriptions for for adult uh bedtime stories

and um it got out of control because this one deals with actual human beings that have been desecrated Right. That's really dark. Yeah, it's fucked up. And it's what George Knapp said on his, I was on the George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell podcast and he said, ghoulish. That's probably the best word for it. It's like ghoulish.

It's weird. It's like. So they, I haven't seen their takes on this. They think this is all. Well, they just gave us a platform and like good journalists. They let us tell our story. Great. And so I don't want to speak for them, but they were very, like, they were very, they

saw what we talked about. Message received. Yeah, message received. Yeah. That's great. And they've been skeptics from the beginning on this. So, yeah, I don't think it's unfair to say that we convince them for sure. Yeah.

And listen, there's other stories you hear that it's like, that is something. When it gets to like close encounters of the third kind, it starts to get like, uh, all right, what? But, you know, when you go through the history of just even take like right after World War two up through, you know, 2000. Yep. And sightings around the world, much of which occurred before 1990, before there's internet, before people had mass communication with each other.

And you see that these 18-year-olds in Australia's described the same things that these seven-year-olds in Africa describe. And then, you know, from this decade and then that decade, and then this is described here. It's like, again, I don't know if it's aliens. It could be fucking DARPA. but something's up and then yes there are like the 94 Zimbabwe one is one that really sticks with me and that could be some you know back misremembering therapy but they did an amazing job with that yeah if that's the case because those children all tell such consistent stories and like you know

I'm I'm open to that stuff I really am but to your point when you run into one that is just categorically bullshit and it's provably categorically bullshit with evidence and science and all that, you have to call it out. Yep. Balls and Strikes. I am totally on board with, like, I have one of my videos that is my most watched, one of my most watched videos all time is I interviewed Ronnie Johnson from Delphus, Kansas, who at the time in 1971 had one of the most intriguing UFO stories of all time. What was that story? So I first of all, just to preface this, I went in cold knocked on his door. He didn't know who I was.

I just showed up to Delphus and was like, Ronnie, can I talk to you? Because he doesn't really do interviews. I think he did one thing with the Discovery Channel like a couple decades back. But here's the story. Ronnie Johnson was 15 years old living out on his farm in Delphus, which is north of Salina, Kansas, near not too far from Topeka, the capital. A little small cow town, wheat town, corn town. and he at the time he was feeding his sheep, he was in his pigs, he was doing chores,

and he heard this rumbling. And he goes outside, and all of a sudden he finds himself like temporarily paralyzed. And he's looking at what he described as like a light that was so light. It was like you were getting welder burns from this mushroom-shaped object. And this is Ronnie Johnson, Delfast, Kansas, if you ever want to look this up. And after a period of time

when both him and his dog and his sheep are all temporarily paralyzed, he says, it goes away. He doesn't know how much time passed, but all of a sudden he can move again. And he go, the sheep jumped the fence. The dog's going crazy. The pigs like go wild through the fence. He goes inside and tells his parents

and they don't believe him. But they come outside and there is a circle. Like a crop circle? There's a circle in the dirt and it's glowing. And there's pictures of this. It's glowing. And his mother touches it on her hands and her thigh, because she rubbed it on her thigh.

And she lost filling in her hands for the rest of her, or that part of her hand for the rest of her life, including her, she got paralysis in her thigh for the rest of her life. They took a Geiger counter to this thing. And it was radio, as far to the, you know, level of radioactive that you could see. This circle existed for decades on their farm. They put a little fence around it. There were burn marks on the tree. One of the scientists, or not science, the science teacher who I met, really nice guy, took a sample of this dirt and kept it in the museum there.

He actually let me take some of that dirt and I sprinkled some water on it because this dirt, the pH is maxed out. It's this full pH, like the high pH as you can get and it repels water. It doesn't mix in with dirt. And I confirmed that. And this circle was there for a long time. It turned into this white powder. It started growing these mushrooms, which were also, according to Ronnie, radioactive and would

make your hands turn numb if you touch them. And he showed me pictures of all that. It's in my documentary. I called it the greatest UFO testimony of all time because Ronnie is salt of earth. Like there's a type of person from like a place like Kansas that's incapable of lying, in my humble opinion. and Ronnie feels like that guy where you're just like he's just orating a memory as it's coming in his head.

He's seeing something regardless he's seeing something that happened. Yeah, and he doesn't like talking about it and he says it ruined his life. I believe he was injured by this thing. And, you know, he had bad, he said he was plagued with nightmares. He claims that it would come back and that he would have premonitions

and like almost predict when it would come back And so the other thing is he wasn't the only one that saw a deputy from, I believe, Minneapolis, Kansas nearby town corroborated that he saw the UFO flying around. This is also an area of the country that is full of those nuclear missile silos at the time. Kansas, north central Kansas, and Nebraska all throughout, you can go buy for 600,000 bucks. You can go buy an abandoned missile silo out there and turn it to you. your little Armageddon playground because they're everywhere. They're everywhere, including that area.

And so it's just a really interesting interview. They won an award from National Inquirer at the time called, this is years later. People were like, you should submit to this contest. They won an award for best scientific proof of a UFO. From a national inquiry. From the National Enquirer. I don't know if I brag about that. Well, I know, but they brought out a panelist of scientists that, like, studied each case.

And they're like, well, you guys have physical evidence. You got this circle that was radioactive, that you had people come out and tested that it was radioactive for like years afterwards. Did he report any odd figures showing up to test it? I don't want to get to like men and black type people. I want to say Heinick got involved in this. Jay Allen Heinek got involved in this. If it wasn't Heinek, it was another guy. There was a famous UFOologist that wrote a book.

about the scientific discovery. If it wasn't Heineck, it was somebody else. But yeah, he did. And he said that one of them stole one of the original pictures from him, that he didn't want to give the original picture up, but he found it missing. And he blamed it on one of the scientists. Yeah. So, this also doesn't have a Wikipedia page, which is kind of wild. I know. It really should. All right. So the Delphos ring. The Delphus ring. Yeah, it does it. I'm trying to see if it includes. Let me see what the name of- Hynek here.

Let me see the name of the guy that had the- Let me do it. Let me do a search for Heinek. It might not have been Heinek. Let me see. I'm going to put in Hold on. So the case caught the attention of Ted Phillips. Yeah, it did. A researcher working. All right. So Ted Phillips, a researcher working with Jay Allen Heinek of Northwestern University. Ted was one of the most respected UFO investigators of the era. He made his first visit to the farm on December 4th, 19,

71 more than a decade after the incident. What he discovered was remarkable 32 days later, or more than a month after the incident, I'm sorry. What he discovered was remarkable 32 days later, the ring remained clearly visible with unmelted snow perfectly outlining its circumference when Phillips and Dural Johnson poured water onto the ring. It simply stayed on the surface rather than soaking in despite several inches of rain and snow that had fallen since November 2nd. The anomaly is extended beyond the ring itself several trees showed damage consistent with something large passing through a dead tree had been knocked to the ground living trees displayed broken limbs and unusual dislocation most bizarre of it all branches that appeared green and healthy would snap

at the slightest pressure as if they'd somehow altered well i didn't know that last part phillips had investigated 370 cases of alleged physical UFO evidence he was impressed in his official he wrote, I believe that based on the information at hand, we have here an excellent example of the unusual phenomena, which has been reported by so many for so long. Also, thief, we were doing, calling out UFO bullshit, and then also the Ronnie Johnson UFO stories. And one of my YouTube videos has a lot of those photos of the weird white marks in the tree. Yeah, I want to see this. Can we? Yeah, totally. I got a bunch of. And the guy I was thinking of that wrote the book, the compelling scientific evidence for UFOs, the analysis of the Delphus, Kansas UFO

landing report was Farrick, which is another famous UFO guy from back in the day. Got it. So it's the 1971 Ronnie Johnson case. It would be on Will's channel. I think it's probably my, I published in December. Yeah, I interviewed him four years ago and I republished it. First video I made on this, I guess I just wasn't as clickbaited with my title. Go up a little bit.

It's that one, the greatest UFO testimony of all time, Ronnie Johnson. I got a little cute with the title. It helped a little bit more with the views here. But it is a good... You gotta do that on YouTube. My first video on this got like $5,000. So if you kind of scroll through there, you'll see he eventually shows me some pictures.

And actually, I just add pictures throughout of some of the circles. Is that it? That's actually AI right there. I was going to say that's AI, but I saw a picture. But yeah, if you kind of just scroll through, you're going to see some pictures that he actually shows me.

there was one right there there. These are the mushrooms and so these are the mushrooms that were growing through you can see the white the white burn those are what he described as burn marks on the on the trees where it got knocked off

and keep it going you're going to see the circle and keep in mind this circle that you're going to see here that's his dog's snowball is what his name was he actually had one of the mushrooms still but he said that's radio action Yeah, well, who knows? It's been 50 years and whoever, but he didn't touch it. He's like, I'm not touching it. And I mean, put some gloves on. I know, but God bless Ronnie Johnson. He's a good man. I went and knocked on his door. He had just done probably a 12-hour shift at work that day. He was like, yeah, I'll talk to you. And so he's a farmer. He's a good farmer. He's a good father. He's had a, has had a great life after this despite getting harassed by scientists as a child. Is there more pictures?

Yeah, keep it going. Let's try to get to where it shows the circle. And yeah, there was one right there. That's a good photo. Wait for it just a moment. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so keep it going. Keep right there.

Pause it right there. So this is aftermath of it. Yeah. Completely radioactive. And it stayed like that for decades. Ronnie finally covered it up with a backhoe because people were trespassing for decades to go get an image. Like a back, like a piece of farm equipment where he dug a hole and basically covered it. Because he didn't want to touch it.

Well, yeah, I wonder if he was worried about liability because apparently this thing was radioactive, confirmed by all those guys you decided. And people were trespassing. How did it eventually go away? Did he say? He said it just took off and all of a sudden he could, are you talking about the UFO? No. He covered it.

It's still there. It's just. It was still that. He covered it. So he didn't show you? He covered it. He told me where to go look out of this farm. I didn't go on his farm, but I went and got some drone shots of it. He covered it. Discovery Channel came out decades later. Early 2000s was like, can we go try to find it? And they found the layer that it was that. They tested the soil at Kansas State University and the pH was maxed out. They didn't really do any fancy test other than like a pH test. And it was maxed out on the pH. And what's this? He said he had psychic intuitions. That's the other crazy part of this is he, there's, there's like newspaper reports of him saying that he would have these dreams where he would tell his parents, I think it's going to come back and all of a sudden the same brumbling would happen. The power would go out in their house. His brother's car's engine was completely shot, like the electric, the electricity in the car.

This thing apparently came back several times. Didn't leave any more of these marks. Well, he did say, he said that on one of his sheep, pastures that he's found another large circle one time. He never mentioned anybody because he was tired of the press. He dropped out of school after this. I think it kind of affected him psychologically for a while. Something's going on. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying. Like, that's why I don't toss it, you know, it takes mounting evidence like we have put out with the Nazca mummies in that kind of case. But when it comes to some of these reports and stuff, I don't. Don't toss it out no matter how crazy it sounds because it's like, all right, well, maybe it's not aliens, but like, what the fuck is going on there?

It could be something weird. Fort Riley. Could be a reasonable explanation, but strange. Yeah, there's a Fort Riley is one of the biggest army bases in America, and it's right there. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. It could have been some secret technology back then.

The nuclear aspect of the phenomenon is, is the most, probably the most interesting part of it. Yeah. You know, that old quote, Bob Salas, it was like they were taking matches out of the hands of a baby when he talks about all the systems being taken out of their control on the nuclear base that he was working on. Like, there's something to that because humanity for all of our problems over the last 80 plus years of having these weapons of mass destruction, we haven't used them. Right. It's like, is that all us, like even the worst of us are benevolent in one case and the most important case, and I'll be great for for that or is that also some intervention going on yeah you know you hear the

stories about them shutting off the nuclear silos yep but there's also like mad is the the acronym mutually assured destruction yes of course you know course um but there's also psychos out there that have access to this stuff so there were people so psychotic that's what I mean in the US State Department during like the height of the Cold War who thought of it as a mathematical score right what I mean by that is there's like direct quotes of people saying, well, you know, if it happened, Russia would lose 240 and we'd lose 60s. So we're going to win by 180. Right. They wouldn't think about the fact that, boom, 300 million people are off the earth, including 60 of their own.

Right. Right. Right. And at 240 of another place. It was just like, well, we win. Like, it's a fucking football game. Right. For sure. And it's like, so those people were all, we're all responsible at all times with not doing this. Maybe. Maybe because there's a lot, There's a chain of command with it. I wonder what the chain of command is in some of these other countries, though, that now have them. You know, like India and Pakistan has got nukes now. Like, what's the chain of command there? You know?

Scary. Yeah, some of all fears. I grew up in Western Kansas. So some of our fears was wild to me. I watched that in Colorado Springs as a child. And if you remember, right, they're going over locations that they should maybe hit. And they're like, well, NORADSADS in Colorado Springs. That entire theater just gasped at once.

And, yeah. That's a great. That's an underrated movie. Yeah. Ben Affleck, Morgan Freeman. Who else is in that? James Redburn, I think, is in that? Yeah.

Yeah. You ever see that, dude? Yeah. Great movie. Yeah, yeah. Great movie. Yeah. What videos are you working on right now?

So next video is going to be the craziest conquistador of all time, which I told you about with. And so after that, I'm going to do the conquest of New Mexico. which is the last conquistador, basically. The last conquistadors that were up in the Taos and Santa Fe region of New Mexico and what they experienced out there. I also might end up doing a guy named Coronado, who went on a wild goose chase looking for the lost city of gold or Saboya or El Dorado. And he wound up in central Kansas.

What? Yeah, he wound up in central Kansas, didn't find anything, went bankrupt, and lost all this money. Coronado was, I want to say, 15, maybe 15. He ended up in Kansas? Oh, wow, he was early. So, yeah, his was 1540 to 1542. That's right. No disrespect.

That ain't Eldorado. No, Kansas is not El Dorado. There's no golden Kansas. But it's a lovely place, but it's not. Yeah, it's great. but um so that's what's up next and then eventually and don't ask me anything about this right now one of my favorite things i love about this is i learn a lot but i want to i've been i want to get into pirates oh dude please and i'm still like i'm still green on that so i'm about to go down a pirate

rabbit hole and i want to animate all over yeah i got the guy for you i had colin wooded in that would have been episode 212 i think he's you know that's you know that's the Netflix documentary. Fuck, I always forget the name of this when I bring it up. Lost Kings or something like that. Lost Pirate Kingdom. He's the guy, like the expert on that. Hell yeah.

Amazing, amazing conversation. I had food poisoning and didn't remember any of it. And I listened to it afterwards. He carried the whole thing. Guys, incredible. But go down the rabbit hole of him, read his book. Yeah. And you're going to get a lot of gold there.

I think it's a good segue into the British coming to the Americas. Because right now I've been telling the story of the Spanish, but the big clash happens out on the seas with the Spanish and the British. And it's funny, you know, you got one side calls the other side pirates. The other side calls the other side, you know, they call themselves privateers. And so there's always this debate on who the actual pirates were. And the truth is they were all getting wild. And whoever they were giving their royal fifth to, you know, they were a privateer to them. But I'm looking forward to that. And then, you know, the other thing is I do like, I got terabytes worth of stuff like this with the mummies.

And I kind of, I'm thinking about making just a new channel where I have like my boots on the ground stuff where I'm going on little wild adventures and that's over there. And then incredible history is just going to be my little project that I'm doing where I'm experimenting with these. Because that's what my audience, my audience right now is enjoying the AI visual videos with the maps and my narration. Um, but I, I got like seven terabytes of footage from Peru, Colombia. Oh, dude. Mexico. So, I love that you go to these places and you're really into it. That's really important to me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, when I was a teacher, I had summers and spring breaks off, Christmas break off, and I'd take advantage of that. I was teaching online for a good part of the last part of my teaching career, like this academy, teaching economics and history there. And like, you know, I wasn't supposed to be traveling, but, uh, they didn't know. I don't think they cared. I'd put a VP in on. And I'm done with all that now.

So Luke and me have been, Luke Caverns of me have been trying to do something together. There's this island out near Puerto Rico called Mona Island that has thousands of petroglyphs in these caves. And one of them is probably the first petroglyph or by people that don't know what petroglyph is, it's a rock carving. And it has the first depiction of the first Christian cross. Whoa.

And they think it was either created by one of the Taino people that had been recently converted or maybe a Spaniard. And if you, yeah, what does this? Yeah, there's some amazing petroglyphs out there and pictographs, which are paintings. And, yeah, I've been trying to go check this out. Yeah, I've been trying to get, it's an uninhabited island that you have to, like, get a permit to go camping on. There's no electricity. There's nobody living there. Whoa.

So if Luke, we've been talking about it, bro, let's make it happen. You should also like. Oh, there it is right there. I think maybe to the left of that. Yeah, it says Jesus. Whoa. It says Jesus. And that was probably carved, you know, sometime in the 1600s or 1700s.

It's really old. Oh, yeah. Maybe even 1500s. Yeah. Has Luke hooked you up with Garrett Ryan at all? Holdenstone? I don't know if I've, he's the goat. When it comes to ancient Roman and ancient Greek history, he's a PhD in that. Nice. He's there all the fucking time all over that entire region from Egypt, all the way up to Turkey, to Greece, to Italy, like he knows all of it. I've had him on the

podcast. We did, first time he was here in 2024, we did episodes 251 and 252. He was here for six hours. And then we just had him back and did a fucking awesome podcast as well. But, Nice. He is gold and like he, another one who goes to all these places and can kind of tie things together and do it from the observation, also academic perspective as well. But I think you'd be really fascinated in that, especially if you do the second channel where you're doing Conquest. Hell yeah.

And things like that. That would be great. Nice. Great content for sure. But yeah, the pirate era. Great shit. And you know what? I always bring this up because I never see enough of it.

I brought up the Darren Aronovsky thing that he's doing, but like the era leading up to the Revolutionary War, the 80 years ahead of that for the United States. French and Indian War, even before that, exactly. Yes. Yeah. Would love to see more content on that. I'm working on doing a podcast or two. I have to see if these guys will do it on, you know, the Revolutionary War era and stuff.

Just because I think the build up to it and then even the Revolutionary War itself is just so undercovered and like it's the story of us. I mean, it's why we're here. Yeah, I can't wait to do it. My family has been in the America. I have part of my lineage comes back to like the late 1600s. When like it was going down. And then another one, I found the first Brown, my last name is Brown.

The first Brown in America was Stefan Christian Braun, which is a German that came over in 1732 with his son, Johann Jacob Braun. And he ended up having a nickname called, you look, this up. Johan, the wagon maker, Braun, and he made wagons for the Revolutionary War effort. He was like a patriot, German patriot for the patriot side. And I found his, I found Stefan Christian Braun's tombstone in the Rowan County, North Carolina Lutheran Church Cemetery. And I'm going to go, I'm going to go pay some respects. But when I went down that whole rabbit hole, I was like, yeah, 1600s, northeast, late 1600s to Revolutionary War, Northeast. I really just eastern coast of the United States.

There's a lot of stuff there. There's a lot of content. There's a lot of gold. Bro, they based Benjamin Martin and the Patriot off of multiple people, but including the Swamp Fox. And there's that fictionalized story that's based on, you know, the real kind of shit that happened that he tells out at the what they call it the Spanish where they would all meet up the Spanish whatever

back in the creeks like where his little militia crew would meet up and when his son Heath Ledger in the movie he's like you never tell me what happened there and he's not going to tell him and then he's like it was late at night

he tells this whole story about we took our time took out their tongues first and his singers sent it all back and he's talking about the French and Indian War and I'm like where is that movie bro I need that.

That's the scene where they're making bullets over the fire. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Every time I'm like, injected in my veins. But like, I need that kind of movie. Maybe we can start with building some YouTube momentum so that fucking Hollywood sees it and then goes and makes it. Speaking of Mel Gibson, Mel Gibson, if you're listening, make a Spanish versus Aztec movie, please, like, people want it.

He's the guy to do it, right? He's got to be Mel. He's the guy to do it. He'll also be the guy to get the most shit for doing it. That's okay. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. That's why I think he's the guy to do it.

Oh, that's funny. He did. Great job with Apocalyptic, bro. He did. I love that movie. And he also, by the way, which RIP to the dude who played one of the villains in that movie, he just died. I saw. But like, they did leave a little cliffhanger at the end of Apocalypse.

They did. They did. Those boats at the shore. Who was it? Yeah. Some of the memes on that are crazy. But that's the thing. Apocalyptic has had a research.

because of meme culture and just clips. It's like, I don't think a lot of people even knew that movie existed when it came out. And it's had a resurgence recently. And I think a big part of it is people want to know more about that history. Absolutely. Well, Will Brown, this was awesome, man. We did two episodes today. They were.

I love conversations like this. I love your work. People can subscribe literally by hitting on the title of the video. We're collaborating this. You can subscribe to Will's channel. doing what you're doing bro it's great stuff and i'm sure we will talk again appreciate it man thanks for the opportunity absolutely all right everybody else you know what it is give it a thought get back to me peace bang bang boom hey guys if you're not following me on spotify please hit

that follow button and leave a five-star review they're both a huge huge help thank you