Julian Dorey Podcast - #455 - “DEMENTED!” - CJNG Cartel Tr*fficking is DARKER Than You Think | Kat Szulc

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) MOOD: Get 20% off your first order of federally legal cannabis gummies, flower, and more at https://mood.com with promo code JULIAN. 2) QUO: Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to quo.com/JULIAN. ***DISCLAIMER: This video is for EDUCATIONAL purposes only. At no point do we show real-world imagery of any of the content described. JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CLIPPERS DISCORD: https://discord.gg/8QmWEKJ3BT (***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Katarina Szulc is a Mexico-based freelance journalist focused on reporting on Cartel Activity. KATARINA's LINKS: - Substack: https://katarinaszulc.substack.com/?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=3h3gxb - X: https://x.com/katarinaszulc?lang=en - YT: https://www.youtube.com/@katarinaszulc/featured - IG: https://www.instagram.com/katarinaszulc?igsh=eHViMnZnNWExNmk4 FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY IG: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://x.com/juliandorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Car Chase, Human Tr*fficking & El Mencho's Cabin 10:01 - How Girls Get Trafficked, Police Inaction & Gun Pointed at Us 13:01 - 30 Men Per Night Women Held at Gunpoint & Generational Trafficking Economy 23:01 - Humanity in the Darkness, Brutal Trafficker Comments & Best Journalism 33:56 - Journalist K*lled in Veracruz, Security Risks & Young Woman on Assignment 43:00 - Multiple Murders in Culiacan, El Mayo Arrested & CIA FBI in Mexico 53:00 - Sinaloa's Economy Destroyed Chapitos vs Mayo & Crime Scene to Crime Scene 01:03:45 - Law Enforcement Told to Let Them K*ll Each Other Off 01:06:27 - Kat Being Extorted, El 03 & What Changed After El Mencho 01:16:43 - CJNG Smuggling Girls to Europe Earthquake, Mass Kidnappings & Tech 01:22:03 - Victim Who Married Her Tr*fficker, Stockholm Syndrome & US Citizen Trafficker 01:34:14 - Paranoia Meeting the Victim, Pimps vs Tr*ffickers & Why Girls Never Leave 01:46:15 - Intelligence, Why Kat Opposes Intervention & Why Cartel Hasn't Killed Her 01:54:33 - Mexican Journalists See the Worst & Could Cartels Decay Like the Mafia 02:04:27 - Stolen Cartel Oil, Ryan Wedding Update & Why US Works w/ Chapitos 02:14:51 - Colombian Cartel Drone Training in Ukraine & Cartel Expanding Into Africa 02:23:00 - Canadian Cartel Native Reserves Fentanyl Pills & What the DEA Told Kat 02:32:10 - Kat's Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 455 - Katarina Szulc Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This Thursday, we're faced with a threat. That can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor, friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility.

Talk to Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand-new day in theaters Thursday. So who the hell's car chasing you off the road? Oh, that was brutal. That was brutal. I mean, I imagine, but like, give me some context here. So, you know, I think like when we first chatted you and I, I talked about how I don't want to do human trafficking stories and stuff like that.

And then I broke that baby trafficking story last year. Yeah. And then as scary as that was, there was this, like realization that those stories are extremely important. And then when I went to Mencho's cabins, I found those pictures of those women that they tried to burn in the barbecue. And so then I had someone reach out to me and can you please stop struggling? That is so distracting. Relax. Just keep going.

Oh, my God. You're on one today. I'm going to keep struggling now just for you. But go ahead. That's why people comment that I mean to you. So anyways, I. I then get a tip being like, hey, this story was published and there's this problem about women from central Mexico being sex trafficked into border towns and into the states,

into Houston, into New York. And so I start setting some stuff up and I go to the Las Scala, Mexico, which is like the most unknown state in Mexico. Las Scala. Las Scala. and it's like a it was like a two-hour drive I think outside of Mexico City so I go there and the plan is to talk to women who have been trafficked or were targeted by traffickers and also speak to a trafficker and a lot of this it's like kind of outside cartel territory because for the most part these trafficking organizations

so to speak, are actually family generations. It's family units that are doing this. So like dad, son, uncles, grandfather, like all of them. And then they are the ones recruiting and trafficking the women. But they are operating on territories that cartels control. There's no way they're doing that without kicking something up. But that's like anything with Mexico. But these are, it's not like, oh, this is this, these guys that I'm meeting with are like CG and G.

Right. They are just. generations of families. And paying a tax up. Likely. CJNG protects it, if you will. Well, because CJ&G profits off of human trafficking, like heavily more than really any other cartel.

But yeah, these guys aren't, they're not also like trafficking drugs and doing this. They are pro-traffickers, human traffickers. And so when I go to Las Gala, I have all these interviews set up and also because the governor of Las Gala, who's a woman, vehemently denies that. that there is any sex trafficking happening, like at all. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you.

And so... This is where it is right here. Yeah. Okay. Really small. And so we get there and... How do I say this politely? I hired someone who will never be getting hired by me ever again, who said, hey, like, I can set you up with this sex trafficking family and they do this and blah, blah, blah. We go to this really small town where,

so one thing that I had heard of, but I'd never encountered it until now, is that there are small towns in Mexico that if you are putting your nose in the wrong place or they don't want you being there, you're an outsider, you get lynched. And they have- lynched yes and they have signs that are like if you don't belong here we will lynch you like like i lynchamos they let's say it yes that's nice of that it's a warning right yeah no excuses no so when we get to this house and i see that sign i'm kind of like ha ha like not taking it seriously bad journalist vibes in that moment okay top 10 of my worst moments it's all right and i see this and I'm like, oh, that's weird.

Okay. Anyways, kind of talking to people, like usually the way I do stories like this, especially is you just really have to talk to everyone. You set certain things up. Certain things fall through. Whatever. We don't have to get into that. But it didn't give you like, obviously you talk to some really dangerous people all the time

when you're doing your stories. But like in this case, you know you're going to talk to a literal, as part of the story, a trafficker. And it was weird. A guy who does it. Like, what does that even feel like? Bad. Yeah.

And like, do you remember? So this is one thing. I always said like, oh, I can, I talk to criminals for work and whatever. And I typically don't judge. And I know, like, they're doing their job. I'm doing my job. Which is also why contrary to popular belief, that's how it honestly works and why I'm still alive. And everything is okay.

Because I don't go into like a preconceived notion. And I just understand, well, this guy's not doing it. Someone else will. But there's a very big difference between, uh, someone. who traffics drugs and kills the competition and is doing illegal things versus someone who is recruiting vulnerable women and like using them like just seeing them as like a sex object and making them have sex with like up to 30 men every day every day oh it's and are they getting little girls sometimes too yeah so there's a big demand for underage

girls and for selling virginities obviously selling virginity yeah And you're talking with a guy who openly does that. Oh, it was brutal. And, and. How'd you get in contact with him? Through someone through someone through. Like, literally, that's just how it works, right? And it took a while, obviously.

But I had to push for it. What do you, like, so when you first start texting someone like that on whatever app you're doing it on, it doesn't matter. What do you even say? Like, hi, yeah, I'm a journalist. I want to cover trafficking and you're a trafficker. Basically. But. Okay.

I want to know your side of the story. Your side of the story. the story how the business works yeah it's wow good for you are you being facetious no i'm not being facetious like i wouldn't be able to i would not be able to do that so this was like a different experience right because then i'm i was i actually didn't talk to this this person over text i met with him in person someone else set it up through someone else like that's because with these kinds of guys they're also very paranoid yeah i don't imagine yeah so we met in person for the first time.

Without saying where or what? Is this in a very public place? No. No. And that's why I'm telling you about the lynching shit because I'm telling this story all over the place. Cheers to that. That's it.

God's like this could be it. This could be the last one. So after that meeting, and I couldn't film that meeting, my team and I were kind of burned in the town. They knew our car, our license plates, us that we were there, and people were not happy. Did many of them work in that business in the trafficking business? Literally like everyone. The whole town.

It's like that is their economy. It's like the Truman Show of Trafficking. People are going to hate me for saying that like in governments, but that's literally what it is. In that town, these boys are growing up thinking when I grew up, I'm going to be a trafficker, just like my dad or just like my uncle. That's like you don't have these kids. Yeah. You know, if they wrote that into a breaking bad episode back in the day, people wouldn't believe it. They'd be like, all right, come on.

It sounds far-fetched, which is why I went, because also there was a report on this area. And I was like, this seems a little dramatic. And there were things in that reporting I found were not solid and certainly over-dramatized. For example, one of the images in this report was of these girls dancing at a carnival. and they said like these are like little prostitute girls. They weren't. They were literally just women dancing at a carnival in like traditional clothing type of thing. Anyway, so that was, I didn't appreciate that.

But I wanted to go and see what that was going on. So we get burned after going to this house and then are told you guys cannot go back to that town. So we stay in like the main city, whatever. Approximately how many people? live in that town just to get people an idea. Oh, I have no idea. It's just, it's one of those towns where like, everyone knows everything about everyone.

But it's not 50 people. It's not 50 people, but it's small town vibes, right? And is it up in the mountain? Yes. So it's up in the mountains? Yeah, it is. So anyways, we go to the city, whatever. I set up an interview because I obviously needed someone to talk to me on camera, right?

That's how my content works. And so I set up now through someone else, oh, this trafficker will talk to you on camera, just make sure you change his voice, blur his face, cool, that's totally fine. This guy's been in the business for so long with the family. So we are driving on the highway to meet with this person at a location. And as we're driving, I get a call from this woman who was trafficked. She's from Tla Scala and she was trafficked to Tijuana by her husband. Mm-hmm.

I'm going to get into this because it's actually not like, oh, they're just grabbing girls off the street. By her husband. Yes, because the way that they're recruiting these girls are, this older guy will go and scope it out. Okay, 17-year-old, 16-year-old girls who've never had a boyfriend before, come from a conservative family and go up, make them fall in love. It's like the Romeo method, right? Oh, my God. Make them fall in love. Will either not have sex with them to, like, save their virginity

or have sex with them to, like, grab the, you know, have them more close. Like, oh, you and I, like, we're together and, like, I'm your first type of thing. So they do that. And then once the girl turns 18, typically, because in order to, like, work in Tijuana as, like, a prostitute or, like, work in the Red Light District, you have to show your ID. obviously there are ways around that and there are a lot of underage girls but for this one woman um you know she gets married this guy is the love of her life she lost her virginity with him oh but now he's saying that he has to go to 21 of her business and work okay we move together cool they go to tj literally

the moment they get there he takes her ID her phone and is like you're going to go work at the corner like standing outside and she was like what the hell is going on And he's like, no, you are. She refuses. He beats the shit out of her. She ends up in the hospital. And now she's scared and she goes and works. And after she works and she makes some money, he treats her like a queen.

So he really does love me. We just need the money. Right. And you're talking about women who are from a small town. Yep. You know. Innocent, young. Really innocent.

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I asked her. I also asked her, like, if she ever went to the police or anything, and she did. And she was like, it got so bad one time when he kicked the shit out of me. I went and I said, I need to go back to my family. And I can't be around this guy. And they were like, look, this is a, this is a marital dispute. Oh, my God. Wow.

And you want to be here. No one's forcing you to go to the corner. You want to be here? That's she literally told me that in the interview. This woman was destroyed. Anyways, the point. I'm sorry, how did you get a hold of her in the first? So this is the thing, right?

I'm asking around, talking to people. And so we're driving on the highway to meet with a trafficker, allegedly. She called, this woman calls me because someone who knew her, was like, hey, I actually think that there's this woman who's willing to chat with you. She calls me. And I have it on speaker. So I have two camera guys filming me in the, car when we're driving on the highway. At this point, I'm talking to her on the phone for about like

20 minutes. I fucked up. That's way too long to have a camera up on a highway in the middle of nowhere in Mexico, especially to go to the meeting that we're going to. And I'm hard to get off that kind of call though. Exactly. And she's like telling me this shit and I'm like, holy fuck. And also I I wanted to meet with her in person. And I knew that we would have to chat in order for her to know that she can trust me before we would actually be able to meet. At that point, and this is all on camera, this big ass black pickup truck, pulls up right by us, and obviously someone clocked us, pulls up to us, two guys in the front, look into our car, they cut me off, and first thing I see our fake license plates, it just says Michokan.

Like, just, I was like, fuck my life. Like, this is where it comes to an end, right? So they cut me off. My camera guy starts freaking the fuck out. I'm trying to be calm, but I'm also like, yeah, this is not good. And I tried a U-turn stops me. Like, there's no way. Yeah.

And then so... Could you see guns at all? Okay, so this car is in front of me. I'm trying to get around it. I hit the brakes they start backing up I'm like fuck my life so I fake signal boom boom

finally you turn over the meridian in my in this like shitty rental and you turn and get out and at this point I am freaking out and I'm like oh fuck like we're clocked I don't know they just want they they're they want us out of here

and they're just trying to send us a message or they're actually going to do something with us and typically I have like this this is going to sound bad, but I always fall back on the fact, well, I am a foreigner and so if they were to do something to me, it would heat things up

more than they would want to, so it would just not worth it for them to do something to me, right? And you felt confident that they knew you were a literal foreigner of like the country? Yeah, but that was the problem in this moment. I'm like, I feel like they don't know.

Because you can blend in. Yeah, I can blend in also. They don't know me. They haven't heard me speak, none of that. And I didn't know who these people were and I didn't know who clocked us or if someone tried to set us up or if that trafficker interview was actually a fucking setup. So you turned go a small car, no plates pulls up and they point a gun at us, which I think was fake. It was a fake gun. A fake gun? It was a fake gun.

So they're pointing pistols at you. They're not pointing full-blown machine guns. No, it was definitely a fake gun. What makes you think it was fake? It just didn't look real. Did you ask him to spray the water out of it or what? I also think in the moment because I didn't want to panic and I was with two other people. I was like, okay, I brought us here. You know, these guys are just working. God bless your camera, man. Holy shit.

Terrible job. You know how many messages I get from people being like, I want to work with you. Can we? Do you? Like, no, you don't. First of all, I'm such an asshole on assignment. Like, just, you know, wound up. And then second of all, it's like just one wrong move.

That's it. Good night, Charlie. Yeah. So then I'm, I, if you want to go? Yeah, I'll go. Yeah. People go. Your fucking liability for sure.

Defe will wear a GoPro. What makes you think I'm a liability? I don't know. There's just, I feel like you talk too much. No. No? Oh, he's good with criminals. Smooth as fuck.

Okay, great. No, you underestimate him. He knows how to talk on. I'm just like to bust. I just like to bust chops. Yeah. I know you. I underestimate everyone with this because I don't even know if I fully trust myself sometimes.

I don't trust you either. So, I mean, that's fair. But. Okay. Anyways. No, in all seriousness, like how many, it's been what? Three, four years are you now doing this down there? All that? Four years.

Yeah. At this point, like, none of these stories surprised me. Like, you've put yourself in the middle of it in all seriousness for so goddamn long that, like, even with, I know all the precautions you take behind the scenes. Yeah. Can't speak for your. your cameramen and everything, but you're gonna run in this shit like this. I know. And that was not fun.

And that was when I was like, oh, fuck. But when they pointed the gun, how long are they pointing the gun at you? So car pulls up right next to us, boom, I fucking just floored it. You floored it. Yeah. You didn't even wait. No, I flored it. Fucking dummy the speed bomb because Mexican highways have speed bumps.

It's brutal, man. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, floor it. And then camera guy is panicking at this point. It's like, speed up, speed up. Is he still filming, though? At this point, don't get me started. Why do you think he's fucking fired?

Oh my God. Come on, dude. But friend in the back, what kept filming? So all of it is on camera. And I, and at one point, I'm like, stop fucking filming because I had to make calls for security reasons, right? Being like, hey, does so and so know my location? Do you know, like, blah, blah, blah.

Because that's always make sure that I'm not just like, wrong. daw-dogging it because also if I get kidnapped or like they kill me right there, who's going to know where I am? No one. Exactly. So anyways, yeah, that that was like not a great situation. Can't you go in with armed security? Like at this point, isn't that an option that should be on the table all the time? It doesn't work for the kind of access that I'm trying to get.

I just don't think it's right or effective if I'm going in with people that are armed. like where's the trust then and then they're going to think I'm a cop or I'm with cops and how is that going to work but it's such a dangerous you're going into dangerous areas they know it's dangerous so they know someone who's a journalist from the outside would probably need to look into making sure they're not risking their life every single time they step out I don't think it's that I don't think and maybe I might be looking at this a little too naively because I'm not down there and I don't live in these places but I don't think it would automatically be the lead all the way to, oh, she must be CIA

because there's a security guard with her. Like, it's a dangerous place. They trust me as in, I'm a journalist telling the story, okay, about what you guys do for your job. Right. They don't know who these other people are. They know it's me. They know it's cameraman.

Camera is there, he's holding the camera, he's getting the shot. I'm there, I'm asking the questions. We throw some armed, tough dude in that combination. It's just, it's too much. It's too much. I don't know. It might get to that point.

I don't want to. I know a lot of journalists in Mexico who are always in armored vehicles and always have an armed bodyguard, but they're also not doing the type of stories I am or like going. Right. So yeah. I just don't, I don't think that's going to work. Well, when you floored and got out of there, they obviously didn't chase you at that point. No, they didn't.

So that's when they wanted to send a message. They were done with us being there. They didn't. I was sticking my nose in too many places, knocking on too many doors, and people noticed it. So, yeah, that was... How long ago was this again? Three weeks ago. Now, what's the status of that story?

Because you were doing the 20-minute interview with the woman at the time. That's what got you clocked. But, like, what else you talk with the trafficker in person? I literally just finished this story. It's not out yet. And it... Because I went to Tijuana because that's where... a lot of these women end up.

And so I had to interview people over there. After this happened? And so I went there, interviewed women who work in sex work, some trafficked, some not interviewed a trafficker there. Yeah, it's just. So you interviewed a second trafficker? Well, I never made it with the first one in La Scala. Oh, on camera, on camera.

On camera, right. Yeah. But you did meet with them in person. How long? Let's go back to the first one just for a second. How long were you sitting with them wherever you were doing it? Maybe like two hours. What kinds of things were you asking them? How much money do they make? How they get the women. What's like their cut? What do they do if...

How much money do they make? It's a lot less than you would think. You know what? I'm not surprised. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. And like, here's the problem, right? Like a lot of these girls that are coming from Central Mexico, they're not going and charging like $1,000 for like 30 minutes type of thing or 60 minutes. They're going, they're charging like 300 pesos for 15 minutes, which is why, 200 pesos is what,

like $18, $15? Yeah. Yeah, it's literally nothing. And they're doing full service and that's why they're giving service to like 30,000. guys a night. When she told me 30 men in a night, like I actually can't, I can't comprehend that. Good. I mean, you shouldn't be able to. That's insane. It's brutal. Yeah. And the stories, like, essentially every woman I spoke to was like, oh yeah, I've been held at knife point or gun point or basically got raped. Like, so many of these moments, it's just rape.

Of course. So that was, yeah, really shitty. And then to sit with one of the traffickers that I did who was laughing about putting like a golf tea into a girls. Yeah. And like shit like that and like how funny it is. How do you sit there, especially like as a woman and not and keep your journalist out on when he's saying shit like that? You pretend. And literally, like, what am I going to do?

Be like, you're fucked up. That's crazy. That changes nothing. And then I get no information so that people can see holy, like, the reality of the situation. Absolutely. It's hard to do that, though, in the moment. Oh, it's horrible. But you lock in.

And it's just like, okay, this is how these guys talk. You match it. And we're drinking and, oh, that's fucking crazy. Oh, you did that. Like, I don't laugh, but you go along. You just go along. What are the kinds of things that you tell you? Like, so he had grown up in it, I take it.

Mm-hmm. Generational. Everyone in the family, yeah. Was he married? Mm-hmm. Had he trafficked his wife? Mm-mm. What did he, what was his logic there? So basically they're not trafficking their wives and daughters.

So that guy that I told you about that trafficking, his wife. Yeah. He was using this Romeo method, right? Make these girls fall in love. And so, like, she believed that to be her husband, but, like, it wasn't. But, like, for this guy. Because, like, their wives, like, their real wife is not going to be sex trafficked by them.

Right. So this, I would imagine, because you're sitting with him for a couple hours, he's giving you that information, you're asking them something like, okay, why is it okay to traffic other women as opposed to your own wife and daughters you don't traffic them no because that's family and that's it but that's what i'm saying that's that's that's only logic it is because they're family yeah no that's my family this is business so and there's a it's it is weird but there is this very clear difference in respect so for example they see that the girls are trafficking or like potential victims as like

trash, whatever. Like this is just, that's, it's like a product. But, and I could feel it. When I'm chatting with him, there's a lot of respect. For you. Oh, so, oh, yeah, this is never. So what makes you not trash to him? I don't know.

My job? I don't know. That's so, like, I can't. That's so crazy. I think it's like a, it's a vulnerability thing. It's like, you know how like pedophiles were like, find like a vulnerable kid? Yeah.

kid who's kind of quiet, the kid who probably won't say anything or can fall into the trap type of thing, that's how they determine who's their product and who's just a woman that's that they respect. So they view the vulnerable as less than, like a, and I'm putting words in their mouth right now, like as a genetic mistake, a choice there for, this is evolution and they lose in the game of Darwinism. That's how they're looking at it. Yeah, sort of.

I mean, from what I was told, that's actually kind of what it seems like. And it makes them money. And I even asked, I'm like, when you beat them up, like, you don't feel bad? He's like, no. If they don't want to get beat up, they're going to do their job properly. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Does he beat his own wife in kids? I have no idea.

I would imagine that's, yes. I'll bet he does that one. 100%. I could see that. You can usually tell a wife beater. was his so you said it was generational so his family was in it did he talk anything about I don't know his mom being involved in any way with trafficking you know helping with the operations or was it the kind of thing where he was talking about like his dad so the one who brought

him in the business mom knows about it mom doesn't do anything though in it she's not involved but all of the female family members know about it did he have siblings who also got into the business it's all it's everyone in the family What else did he tell you that really stood out? Because that's a lot, I didn't know you were talking to him for that long. That's a long time. Yeah, we were there for a few hours. What else did he tell me that really stood out to me?

It was just, yeah, the really what stood out to me. And I know that, like, for the report, this is outside of, like, what the guts of the report is. But it was just the way that, like, they treat them. Like, when he was making just, it was. so funny to him to do these like borderline torturous things um and how they'll like get all girls together sometimes and like throw these parties and like you know everyone's partying um and the shit that they're doing and he was like proud of it what he was yeah like and nasty shit do you think he has the capability to feel anything for another human being don't care who it is i don't know

I don't know. Because like, I'm sure you probably, well, maybe you haven't, but one thing you should probably think about at this point, having done this for so long and been around such a chaotic environment with some of the worst people in the world is like, yeah, you may not be a classically trained in school psychiatrist or psychologist or anything like that. But you're probably one of the best in the world at being able to pick up on sociopathic traits and what goes into how different sociopaths are formed and stuff like that. Because I've spoken to all these people. Yeah. So obviously there's a sociopathy level that's built into someone like this. But were there ever moments you were with him where you were able to, I don't want to say forget, but like, you know, momentarily he's not a trafficker. He's a human.

And like you felt humanity with him. Yes. And especially when he. So we were drinking and talked. And he got hammered. And that was when I was like. ew, like what the fuck is this? It's careless too.

And like sloppy drunk, yeah. And I wasn't expecting that. When we first met, I was even a little bit intimidated. And then when I saw him drunk, and I drank more, by the way. Just putting that out there. Yeah, it's all right. I was like, oh. It's not like, you.

And I don't, I'm not trying to glamorize it, but it's not like I'm talking to the, like, you would think, oh, they're doing these evil things and making, this individual is making quite a bit of money from it. That there would be like this level of decorum in spite of like all of the shit that they're doing. Right. He'd be on guard more. Yeah. Yeah. And initially he was and then afterwards, no problem. But.

What was he getting drunk off of tequila? It was like a lot of different things actually at that point. So he's being real sloppy. Yeah, I don't remember what. He started drinking vodka because I drink vodka. I know. And I've never experienced that. Usually it's the other way around when I meet.

If I meet with criminals and like. That's interesting. If there's like alcohol, which sometimes there is and it's not because I'm their friend. It's literally an icebreaker, right? Like you're just chat. And in Mexico too, drinking just whatever. But yeah, he matched my poison. That's interesting that he would mirror you.

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That's Quo.com slash Julian. Check it out today. description below. Get it, got it. Good. How'd you guys leave it? And you're like, all right, I got no more questions for you. Have a good one? No, he got drunk and I was like, okay, I'm going now. I have to ingest footage and shit. Bye. Yeah, and then he said he could set up some other stuff for me and shake his hand. Yeah. I don't know. I always think about Brian McMonicle,

who's a friend of mine who's one of the best defense attorneys to ever live. He's, She's represented everyone from Bill Cosby to Meek Mill to all across the gamut of like types of cases, people that are guilty, people that are innocent, et cetera. But he always talks about that with, you know, even, because I'll ask him, I'll be like, how do you sit with a dude that you know is guilty? And you have a constitutional job to represent them and do your thing, understand that. And, you know, you're handling that. But how do you sit with them and have any type of personal relationships?

relationship, which naturally has to happen while you're building a long case. And he's like, you know, it's the little things. Like, what do you mean? And he goes, you know, they'll show you little things that make them human. Oh, they offer their cup, you know, to you first before the water gets poured or, you know, they'll make a joke that you can relate to, or they'll talk about their family and there's actually real love there and you can talk about yours, like all these little things. And so he's like, yeah, it doesn't change the fact that some of these guys inevitably are bad people that, you know, end up getting locked up when, when they're very guilty and, you know, are, in many cases, sociopaths. But like, even that sliver of collective humanity can at least

help me, referring to him, do his job. And so I would imagine if you're, even if you guys are ice breaking it and getting drunk together, which I guess, I mean, that's interesting. But I would imagine being able to sit with someone for two, three hours like that, even if you're not, you know, in the moment you're doing your job. But even if you're not consciously clocking it, there has to be a lot of those moments where it's like you're at least just two fucking people talking on a bar stool. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

And there will be moments where, especially when you're talking for a while, it's just a conversation. And yeah, they, he made mention of his family and stuff like telling me about his marriage, la, la. I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm painfully single. Like it's, and I will.

say things too, whatever. But then it can be very jarring when that's the vibe of the conversation, because when it will then shift to like the topic at hand, it's jarring. It's jarring. Yeah. It's different than just talking. And it's tough because it's like right after speaking with someone who suffered so much because of someone like this.

Did you bring her up? I did. Yeah. What did he say? Well, I said, you know, there was this woman that I don't know if you had anything to do with it, you know, because it's an expansive network. Sure. I was like, she said she couldn't sleep and she was giving service to like 30 guys a night. And two things.

He was like, well, first, she probably wasn't making much money because the girls who are giving service like that, they're not charging a lot. And second, he was like, he didn't feel sorry for her, but he knew it was shitty. He was like, oh, that sucks. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. Like, they know that it's not good. It's not a nice life. So what makes them deserve that other than, other than I get paid money and I pick them out because they're vulnerable and therefore whatever?

What makes, like, how can he be like that shitty and feel something towards it? It reminds me of like if I were talking to someone in like 18,000. about like their slaves or something like that. Yeah. And they're like, oh, that's shitty. But that's just the way it is. Yeah. That's literally what it's, yeah.

Well, you know, we all got to make our money somehow. That's how they see it. But it was really difficult to chat about this. If I had spoken with him before I talked to like multiple girls, it probably would have been very different, actually. How so? I don't think I would have taken as seriously. some of the comments he made about like some brutal shit that happens and how he was like so joking about it i

think if i had heard that prior to interviewing the girls i would have been like oh yeah whatever um but you ever get pissed at him openly not openly no no i mean this is a dead serious question but for something like this like do you as part of like preparing yourself do you work like an actor a little bit like get yourself in the role if you will like no no no you just that comes naturally yeah i just it's just a matter of i know what i need to get out of this and i know that attacking someone or judging their decisions or the way their brain operates is not gonna help them open up and you don't know how you're going to react though that's more i do though you do yeah because i that i was raised like that.

Like I, people tell me unhinged shit all the time, horrible things. And it just goes inside. And I just, what am I going to say or do? I'm not going to freak out.

I have a lot of control over my emotions. That's good. Helps in that kind of job. Yeah. I think it helps in every job. It does. I don't think people should act on emotion for the most part.

And so, yeah, no, I, there were like a few things, a few moments when he said something. I'm like inside, oh, fuck. But I just don't say anything then. What was one of those? You already described a couple, but. Yeah, like it was like shit like that. Just like things that they'll do to the girls and you're just like, oh, fuck. You're such a piece of shit.

No. But you can't say that. Can't say that. Yeah. You know? How do you, because you're going to be freewheel on it when. you go to talk to a guy like this, you're meeting them and, you know, wherever it is and you're not on camera, you're not sitting there with papers like at 60 minutes or anything. But how do you,

if you're already good mentally prepared for it to be able to handle it and do your job, that's great. But like, do you kind of prepare how you want it to go or do you do it live every time? Live. Yeah. Yeah, no, I actually think the best journalism comes from just having like a natural conversation. Because I think when you go in prepared, no matter what, you have to go with no expectations. And if you're preparing for it or being like, I definitely am going to ask this, you're already betting that that's where the conversation is going to go. Or like, yeah, you can't. I really go into everything in life with no expectation.

No, I love that. But that's the thing. Like, that's how I do it here. I think there's a lot less serious stakes. It's in a fucking podcast studio. But like the magic would be gone if there was like a level of, I want to make sure we get to this, this. and this and do it this way and talk about this thing. I understand sometimes like that needs to happen.

Like when I interview a politician, for example, there are certain things. I'm like, okay, I need to know this or I need an answer or a reaction. But for someone, yeah, no, but for the most part, it's just you have to just have a natural conversation. I think it would be a lot harder if you had very limited time.

If they're like, oh, you have 10 minutes or 15 minutes or something like that. That's a different kind of scenario. I hate that. That's awful. Oh my God. Every time I've had that situation, the interview is trash every time. But if you know you're going to have a couple hours with someone to talk with them, chances are I'm thinking of like the politician's situation, for example.

Like let's say there's one or two key issues right now that you know you got to get to. It'll get there. It just might get there 10 minutes in or it might get there an hour in 10 minutes in. You're not going to control that part. Let the rest of it fall in the place. I think that's great. Well, actually with this individual, like the main trafficker. that I spoke to.

He initially set it up for, okay, yeah, let's just like meet quick, chat and goodbye. But once we met and started chatting, he got very comfortable and wanted to continue talking. And that was why it ended up going a few hours. Do you ever wonder, because like you're a young female reporter? Helps 100%. Yeah. Entirely. Yeah.

It is an advantage Oh totally Are you ever worried about that I mean you're dealing with a fucking monster here so Of course but I have like I don't know maybe I don't know if it's me being naive Or just I have a big ego But I'm like

I don't know maybe it's a mixture of both I think that shows my age But I always feel like With people like that If it got to a point We're likely we're going to do something With someone like that I could rationalize my way out of it rationalized.

Yeah. How would you do that? No, don't rate me. That's it. You gotta do better than that. I'm joking. He took that so seriously. You really think that would be my strategy?

Yeah, I didn't think you'd actually say it like that, but the kind of condo to me. It would just be like, I can't do it with you. Like I have to be in the moment, but I just have a feeling like in the moment because it's come to certain moments where I feel like I'm in danger or there's something or the vibe switches and I can kind of rationalize with them. I do think that like you like want something to happen.

No, I don't. Okay, so stop. No, don't don't say that. I don't. I joke about you with things because you put yourself in very dangerous scenarios all the time and that's part of like not with the intention of something bad happening to me. I understand that but like when you do it's just a law of probabilities when you do it a lot of times over and over again like the probability, like the The probabilities of something not great happening, whatever that is, are higher than for the average person. You understand that? Yeah.

Okay. What I'm saying is, though, I do think the fact that you have, like, elephant balls in these situations plays to your advantage. It's just, like, the thing I worry about is the one time you're with someone who genuinely doesn't even respect that. Because I think a lot of the guys respect that. They do. God damn, you know? And they've told me that, which is typically when I know, okay, we're in the green. Um, and a lot of them have actually even told me, they're like, I don't know what kind of guy would want to go with you. Like, fuck. But when I hear that, it's great. That's a really, it means that they're not going to try some bullshit. Um, and I'm not worried about someone who doesn't respect that. I'm worried about someone who's like so high out of their fucking mind that there is no rationale. Right. That's my concern. Or someone who's like, fresh, like just started in this shit. And they're freaking.

the fuck out and they're doing drugs and they're trigger happy and just crazy. That's what I would worry about. I feel like that's more likely than me meeting with a high level person and them turning on me. It's more likely going to be some bottom of the barrel kid who's just pissed off about something super high. Yeah. And decides to just do some bullshit.

There's two psychological components to it. One is all it takes is one, and you're talking to people all the time, that's why it's so dangerous. But also it's like, that's the job too. And that's why you do it well. Like if you're going to go do this, you're going to be in situations like that. And it kind of, you know, it is what it is. And it's worked out obviously at this point, and that's good. It's just like, I do hope there's going to be a workaround at some point here where I'm not saying you go in there in an armored vehicle.

everywhere and shit like that and make it like a whole thing, which might really limit your job. But if there's a way to have like a little more security around you, just something. That's what I'm actually trying to figure out, especially after the highway situation. Yeah. This is like a conversation that I've been having because, yeah. I mean, you know a lot of, you know a lot of good people who are familiar with that environment down there. I got to think one of them is going to be able to come up with something that's like, okay, this could work and we're still able to do our, like, you don't want to be.

I don't want to hinder. Yeah. That's like one thing because some people were like, well, like what you said, well, like have like an armored vehicle or don't go to these places or don't meet with these people. And I'm like, but that's what sets these stories apart from everything else that we're seeing. Like this is in a way a lot of it is really unprecedented access and I think that's important Like being able to see everything and there's like exposure to these regions and people that are typically very you know operating in like the dark corridors type of thing That's what makes it good and interesting I agree so I don't want to lose that but I feel like it's just going to take like one more. Okay, actually I say this. I was going to say, it's just going to take one more

close call and I'm going to be done. But then I've been saying that. It's like the first time I got held a gunpoint, I'm like, okay, it's done now where I called my dad. I'm like, it's done. And three days later, Goli Kanazo. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a momentarily thing. And then you start to rationalize the fear and you're like, it wasn't that bad. They were never going to actually do something to me. That's right. That's my problem. Yeah. Because something will have. happened that is like inherently bad and then like after the fact it was in my head i was making a big deal out of it like no it was not that deep they were just trying to scare me and it worked and whatever and then i go back well the fact of the matter is when it comes to people that like are english speakers

or speak it well as the second language you could literally as far as people that are actually down there really getting stories and really consistently reporting on things i could almost count on my two hands How many of them exist. Oh, God. And I've had half of them in this studio. There's not many. You know, like it's not, now there's people in Mexico, native, native Spanish speakers and stuff. Yeah.

And I don't speak any English who've been down there doing it. And there's way more. And they're really good at it. But there's also so at risk. Right. Because they're not protected by anyone. And they're totally a threat, you know? Yeah.

And it's been proven how disposable they are. They just murdered, kidnapped, Veracruz, uh, a female journalist in Veracruz from her house and murdered her when did this happen just recently and her her kidnapping was live stream there's a video of it who which cartel did it so here's the thing i think it was cops yeah there were this was some who the government for who it's like a government oh you think it's just purely the government i think there's some yeah roxana what the fuck okay Mexico, Raksana Guzman, third journalist murdered in Veracruz in 2026. R.S.F demands urgent answers. Reporters without borders strongly condemns the murder of journalist Roxana Baranis Guzman Ramirez,

director of the news outlet Polso Informacio del Sereste, who was abducted on 2nd of June in Nanchital in the state of Veracruz and found dead nearly a month later. This crime confirms the authority's failure to protect the press and marks the third journalist killed in the state, in just that state. Since the beginning of 2026, RSF calls on the Office of the Attorney General of the Republic to conduct a prompt, thorough, transparent, da, da,

when the morning of June 2nd, armed mass men forced their way into Roxanna Baronese, Guzman Ramirez's home in Nanchitao and Southern Veracruz. After threatening her, they abducted her. The Office of the Attorney General

of the Republic took over the investigation, and today eight people have been arrested, including four municipal police officers from, how do you say that word? Where are you? Exwatlan del Sereste. Okay, a town in southern Veracruz. Another suspect in the abduction, Jose del Carmen Kadena Escaiola, known as Delta 7, was identified through CCTV footage of the attack. According

the Mexican media reports, following his arrest, he allegedly directed investigators to a location where the journalist might be found where authority discovered human remains. On July 3rd, the Veracruz State Attorney General's office confirmed that the remains found on a ranch between the municipalities of Explanations. Alton del Sereste and Molo Khan were those of journalists Roxana Guzman. The journalist headed Pulso Informativo del Surreste at Facebook news page covering local community affairs, citizens concerned, public services, municipal politics and security issues. So they think that this was this was four of the people.

Right. But my question is, are they on the take from CJNG from. So Veracruz is CG but I have a feeling that there was an issue with. her political reporting. Okay, let me backdoor it again then. Is the issue with her political reporting the fact that she's reporting bad political things about politicians who are owned by, say, CJ and G. Yeah, it always comes back to that for sure. But you're a journalist in Mexico, you're getting abducted and murdered by cops. That's like the most textbook Mexican democracy security like all of it together. And it all came to a head with her.

That's insane. It's brutal. I mean, it's incredibly brave for all of you, but especially the people who are from there and have been reporting on this for years. It's a nightmare. So I went to, I was just in Kulia Khan a week ago. And, because I went to see what it's like since. Had you been back since Kulia Kanazzo? No, I haven't been back since after Mayo.

Like I was the last time I was there was after they got in myo. Okay. And so I went back because. Coolie Khan on the map deep for people out there, but go ahead. Because I, um, I think Koliqan has some of the best journalists. Like they're just, and so underrated. And they're just so fucking talented and honest. And you say I have elephant balls.

These guys is like twofold, okay? And it was brutal. within the first like six, 12 hours that I was there, I went to eight different crime scenes, different murders, murders, yeah. It was terrible. And so one of the girls, she's a journalist, she's the only girl that does the breaking crime news type of thing. So murder, shootouts, whatever. And she's young.

And she was telling me that one time she got to a scene before the point, police did and how source well they so she's getting like reports from people like on facebook and shots fired la la right because like people in kulekhan also like are so on edge that like any bang people are already on facebook like they're shots fired and it's like no like a guy just like dropped something changing a tire type of thing so she was telling me how not too long ago she attended a scene before the cops got there. So she's like waiting in her car because she's like,

I don't know if I should get out yet or I should wait for the cops. Dead body there. This guy in a car, a truck, comes out behind her. There's like multiple guys in the truck. He has a machine gun, taps her window with it

and was like, give me your fucking phone. And she's like freaking out, obviously. And he's like, what the hell are you doing here? like you're a journalist what the what the hell are you doing here blah blah she's like sorry like i'm just a reporter i just come take pictures of stuff like this you know and young and this is not a nice situation to be in you have this guy and so he grabs her phone and she was telling me it was like

one of those pink flip phones that you can get now and she was like i love that phone and he smashes the phone and then someone in the truck yells at him no take the phone and he's like no like like fuck it but she's not gonna have the phone and then she's like can I go and he's like no wait we need to figure out what to do with you and someone in the truck is yelling take her and he goes we don't have to take

her just as long as we got rid of the phone yeah imagine this poor girl is sitting there oh my god just brutal anyways they let her go but apparently they kept using her phone from that moment on like they ended up taking her phone they were using her WhatsApp and stuff like that Jesus Christ

So you For people that don't remember When you were first here Back in episode 265 You talked a lot about Culea Canazzo What was going on there And that was a couple years ago now Can you just review that for people

That wasn't the Culea Canasso That wasn't? That was El Mayo's capture Culiacanazo was before that It was a year before that But you were there for that No You weren't there for that

I didn't go to Culea Canazzo You were just there for the aftermath Yeah No, I was there for, I was there for two years ago when El Mayo was abducted and arrested in the United States and all hell broke out in Sinaloa because it fractured the Sinaloa cartel because the Chapitos, El Chapo's kids set up El Mayo, the leader of one of the leaders of the Sinolaa cartel to then hand him over to United States authorities. So I went there for that. and the city was on fire um there were dead bodies everywhere shootouts all night long there was a a stay home order like people kids were doing a school from home people couldn't go to work it was a whole thing and he was also set up well at that time too there was a big problem because

you know i probably said this on that episode the governor of sinaloa is very corrupt Ruben Rocha Moya. Mm-hmm. And I interviewed him when I went during that time because also at that point in time a lot of journalists were dying. There was a lot of rhetoric that he's super corrupt

and he also works with the Chapitos and he played a major role in giving up El Mayo to the United States and all of this shit. And now he was just indicted by the U.S. Oh, he was? On drug traffic. Oh, can we pull that up?

In the Sinaloa cartel. In the Southern District, in New York? Yeah. Whoa. So there. They're trying to extradite him, but the president of Mexico is sort of in a way kind of protecting him. Yeah, there's a lot going on there too because the Mexican government is investigating the United States on their involvement in El Mayo. Now, of course, the United States government was involved.

But what's the deal there? Why are they? So the FBI or like the ambassador in Mexico told what is it? You're good. It's just someone's dying outside. You're fine. told the Mexican government that they did not have FBI. There was no FBI involvement in capturing El Mayo.

That he just simply ended up in the United States because he was probably betrayed by a faction and he was just given up. Now, that plane that flew El Mayo from Mexico into New Mexico, the United States, is in the FBI Museum. Come on. Showcasing.

It's part of a showcase of our successes in, like, FBI operations. That's talking out of both sides of your ass. Isn't that crazy? That's nuts. I know. So then Mexico freaks out. And Shienbaum is like, well, we need to investigate them because now they're clearly somebody lied to us.

Right. And they're trying. to basically say that the U.S. has been conducting these unilateral operations in Mexico. And it, like, obviously. Yeah, obviously. I know. Also, and the next question, I'm not even blaming them for, like, being pissed about it. Like, what the fuck are they going to do about it?

No, like, what, okay, what are you going to investigate? Like, clearly the U.S. doesn't give a fuck. They put that plane. Dude, they were like, yeah, you guys not. Don't worry. We went there. But look at what we just did. Crazy.

We're sticking in the museum. I mean, my guess is like it's just her trying to do some political positioning for her own people to act like she's not a total emperor without clothes, but. I know. You're going to investigate the CIA and the FBI and get the fuck out of here. But I don't know if it's that because if she hadn't had, she brought it up herself. If she didn't want to look like the emperor without clothes, she could have just. ignored it and I don't think people would have really noticed. That's the largest known at the time drug trafficker who was internationally wanted was flown out to the United States tied up on a plane.

Not that, that the U.S. lied to them about it. I mean, where was he flown? It wasn't flown to fucking Costa Rica. No, I know. You know? I don't know what the play is with this. I really don't. But it's weird.

It's weird. So this was, and I remember you interviewed this guy, right? Yeah, and I was getting so much heat from people being like, you're making it up. How do you know he's corrupt? How do you know he works for the cartel? I'm like, br, take a look at this motherfucker. He's literally the governor of the worst cartel state. If I were casting a movie on like rogue governor working for cartels in Mexico, he would look pretty good.

It would look good. So governor of Sinaloa and nine other current and former Mexican officials charged with drug trafficking and weapons offenses. This is from April 29, 2026. So Kat was two years early on this one. The defendants allegedly conspired with leaders of the Sinaloa cartel to import massive quantities of narcotics into the United States in exchange for political support and bribes. The United States Attorney for Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton, who definitely has never heard of Jeffrey Epstein in his life. and an administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, Terrence Cole announced today the unsealing of an indictment charging Ruben Rocha Moya, Enzouza Casares, Enrique Diazvega, Damaso Castro Zavedravedra, Marco Antonio Almanzas, Aviles, Alberto Jorge Contreras Nunez, aka Cholo, Gerardo Merida Sanchez, Jose Antonio Dinocio Hippolito, aka Tornado, Juan de Dios Gomez, Mezez, and Biddle and Juan Valencia Milan, aka Juanito, with drug trafficking and related weapons offenses.

Milan is additionally charged with offenses related to the participation in kidnappings of a DEA source. Can't do that. And the source is relative that it resulted in their deaths. The defendants are all current or former high-ranking government and law enforcement officials in the Mexican state of Sinaloa, including the current governor of Sinaloa Ruben Rocha Moya and are alleged to have partnered with the Sinaloa cartel to distribute massive quantities of narcotics in the U.S. the case is assigned to district judge Catherine Polk Faya. All right. So where did, so Rocha Moya, as far as who he was getting paid off obviously by the

cartel there, but was he, I forget, was he loyal to like a faction? Yeah, so he's loyal to the non-El Mayo faction. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So did he, obviously he's still, he's governor before and governor after El Mio, is abducted, but was that also like a power play for him in the sense that now Al Mayo was out of there? Well, yeah, because the whole thing was that Almayo was supposed to be meeting up with Chapitos and Rocha Moya to discuss the future of Sinaloa and their dealings and certain political differences and probably bribes and shit.

Right. Because they care about the people. And he's on his way to this meeting to meet with this, to meet with this very guy where then he ends up fucking blah. blindfolded in this small aircraft and then on a tarmac in United States. Tough way to go. I'd be pissed. I'd be pretty pissed too. He was so under the radar for so many years too.

He let El Chapo be the public guy. He was the private guy, the grandfather in the hills, if you will. And there was organization. Now it's so chaotic there. Yeah. Their economy is fucked. Yeah, we've had a couple people in talking about some of it recently. recently but at colorone was just here again as well oh yeah i saw that but what's what's their

economy's fucked was it functioning before yes it was good before cinaloa culeyaka and masadlan great nightlife um so they don't have that now food they're known for like gastronomy nothing so people aren't going out people aren't going there tourism's way down because everyone's done done done yeah how does that end when does it i don't know i don't know i don't know Actually, when I was there and I went to one of the crime scenes, some of the reporters and the cops were all kind of chatting. And because a report had come out that Kulia Khan's economy is going to go back to normal in the next 10 years. And they were all like, fuck this reporter who wrote this and this is bullshit. And like, fair enough, right?

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, but what needs to happen? And they were like, well, exactly what the cops are letting happen. which is they all just need to kill each other off and someone needs to prevail in this war. That's what's crazy. It's like, and I got to admit, I don't have a good argument against this, but it's so dark. It's like if you have the devil you know down there and you know that like that's who's in charge and there's not a bunch of devils shooting each other, that is better than having all the devils shoot each other.

In terms of like quality of life for innocent people, and just like the society. Yes, 100%. How long were you there this time? Two weeks. And I wanted to stay longer. But I had to go to Tijuana for the story. But every time I go to Sinaloa, I'm just like,

I don't know. I love it. I don't know. I think it's the people. Every time I'm there. And every time I leave, I'm like kind of emotional. Really? Yeah.

You? I have a heart, Trillion. Somewhere in there. Deep down. Yeah, deep down. Frozen. But it's so hot, Kulek and it thaws, you know? Yeah, yeah.

That's right. It brings it out of you. And that's another problem. It's so hot. Everyone's like fucking amped up. But people aren't going out at night and stuff right now. No, but they're not. And because it's too hot in the day, all the killings are happening in like evening,

late afternoon night. Are they happening? They're literally happened in the middle of town all over. the place everywhere everywhere everywhere uh the walmart guy walking out just went grocery shopping with his family gun down um guy in like a residential i literally i went to all of it there was i went to the walmart parking lot went to a residential neighborhood i went to like a kind of poor area i went to like a really wealthy area busy not busy it doesn't matter body body body body like just so many bodies so even like in the wealthy neighborhoods people just get hit there i mean i guess someone

of them live there so that makes sense yeah they do that's exactly the problem yeah it's everywhere it's everywhere and it's crazy because like we're going from crime scene to crime scene to show this stuff and like it's just oh the same cops are pulling up they were just at the last scene all together like it's just like clockwork is any is anybody winning right now remember i said i can't say that anymore or ever i don't remember that but okay last episode you asked me at the end and i said that that I've made the decision that I will, I'm not going to say that because I will, yeah. Well, you said the cartel watches this podcast. They do.

Yeah, I wasn't surprised by that at all. Yeah. Hello? How are you? I get it, you know, when things are active going on there, half of it is the politics of, the optics of how it looks. So that's how they recruit. Oh, we're doing well. You got to join.

So. Yeah, the ones that some are the ones that speak English will watch. A lot of like some guys who work in it and they were like deported Right so they'll watch um we're gonna have Spanish subtitle soon so they'll be able to watch We're inclusive around here what was I gonna tell you about that there was something I wanted well I asked you if someone was winning and said you can't yeah yeah There is how can I say this I actually can't yeah no mm-hmm It's just brutal. It's bodies are dropping all over the place.

All factions there are unfortunately powerful. Continue to be that way. Fair to say? Mm-hmm. Okay. And it's constantly changing. Like, who has control of here and here? It's just, it's a bloodbath.

Do we have any idea what the power structures look like? Like, who's not just number one, but like, you know, I'm just thinking of this in my head, bias towards like the U.S. like the mafia and how they're organized and everything. Is there any organization in the middle of like an all-out fucking cartel war like that? Or is it just like, you know, they got their top hundred guys, everyone figure it out. What do you mean?

Like the way that the cartel continues to operate, they have a business to run. Like either faction, they're running drugs. They're doing what they do and all that. But in the middle of this, they're all gunning each other down and shit. They're in the middle of a war. So is there any real like power structure that is set up? Yes, there is. Okay.

Yeah. In both the factions. But guys are still people in the power structure are getting killed all the time. Yes. They have to replace people. And that has been problematic because now there are some people that are, you know, getting hired left, right, right, and center. And they are killing innocent people because they don't, they're mistaken identity

or they're on too much drugs. Just causing a lot of chaos. but because there's this need for manpower, everyone's in it. Right. Now, you actually said something earlier when you were talking about the trafficker you were sitting with and the difference was sitting with him that stuck with me where you were saying something along the lines of, you know, when I'm sitting with the other guys, they're cartel guys, they're in the business, they're killing other people in the business and stuff like that. This guy's trafficking, innocent people and doing all that. And I agree.

This guy's horrible and the shit he does is horrible. The only thing is when it comes to the cartel guys and like killing other people in the cartel and stuff, in Mexico, there's to me way more spillover. There is a lot of spillover to innocent people. I know. And I didn't mean to like compartment. Like it's still bad. Like I'm, you know, I'm not, oh, these guys, it's different though. Whatever.

They're cool. Yeah, I'm not trying to twist your words. I'm just wondering. But there is a lot of spillover. And you know what? Like one thing that really stands out to me, it's. not just spillover in terms of citizens are dying. That's also like it's not super common in Sinaloa right now. It's mostly pretty much like all the murders that I attended to. The

individual is involved in one way or another. Okay. There's like a level of, these are hits that are being taken out. It's not just like the spring bullets and see where it falls. But the one thing that really sticks out to me is the destruction of everyone's livelihood. So it's not just that people are getting killed or like caught in the crossfire literally. It's a matter of so many people have lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their sense of safety. Everyone is super paranoid and on edge all the time. So the quality of life has deteriorated. And that to me is very sad. And that's like one thing as a journalist that I was taught is like as a journalist if a story

can negatively impact or like can ruin someone's life like in terms of actually kill them or it can ruin their livelihood those are one of the same you it's if you if I have a whistleblower come up to me and they're like listen I'm not going to get killed for telling you this but my life will be destroyed if you put out my identity that is just as bad as that person getting murdered And so seeing in Sinaloa how everyone's livelihoods have been ruined, it's very sad. And you have friends that you over the past couple years you keep in touch with.

Great people. Yes. And it's just like, and they're there every day all the time. And it's horrible. I can imagine. Well, I can. That's why I know it's bad. Do we, have we seen concrete examples of like law enforcement and stuff literally?

getting in on the hits that are happening there like doing it themselves similar similarly to what we saw with that journalist who was killed? I haven't seen that in Ulyakan but one thing is for sure is that law enforcement and in Sinaloa

there's a shit ton of it okay that's like all the fucking National Guard is there the Army State police federal Doing what? attending to the scene That's it. There is they are not

tasked with stopping the crime. Clean it up after. That's it. That's crazy. They are literally being told, let these guys kill each other off. I was told that word for word from federal police investigate. That's what we're supposed to do. We're not here to prevent this blood bath.

They just all need to kind of like exterminate themselves. How do they work with the existing population though that includes a lot of young men between ages eight and 13 and 15 and 16 who are going to be vulnerable to just be the next man up and the next body and stop that from happening. I know. I know and it enough they're not doing anything. They don't do anything with them. No. It's like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole. It's like worse. Yeah. Just letting it bleed out like a sieve. Yeah. I need to go smoke. Okay. We'll be right back. Also, what's the shit you're getting extorted on? We're back by the way. Oh, God. I'm trying to do this story where I have incredible access. But now I don't know what changed. This used to never be

the case for me and now it is. Everybody like wants something now to give me access, whether it's a pair of Nike runners or some cash or a bottle of something. And it's so brutal. Like a few years ago, I could just pull up, hey, can we chat? No, okay, I'll go fuck myself or yes, great. Like, let's sit down. But now it's like they want my first born for fucking access. And it's really pissing me off and it's really hard to navigate. But that's okay.

I'll figure it out because what I'm really curious to find out firsthand is what this new leadership of CG and G looks like. And so I'm really willing. to go to any length. Because I'm under the impression that 0.3, which was, it's El Mancho's stepson, had actually been leading CG and G for quite a while before he was allegedly killed. Because El Mancho was very sick. I don't even know if that's why.

I just think that it was like this handover of power. Why would El Mentiono do that? Zero three. That's what I want to find. find out. But I'm under the impression that, yeah, there's Juan Carlos. I think that he is very respected in the organization. He also is an American citizen. He, it seems, based on people I've spoken to, whatever, to exude, like, a really strong sense of power and leadership. And he was definitely highly trusted by Mancho and by.

the Valencia clan, you know, that family that he comes from, El Mentiono's ex-wife, which we talked about this last time, Kennedys of Mexico. And so I'm really trying to get in and I want to know what has changed or how long he has been the leader for. So you have sources of some capacity who have been whispering this, and that's since El Mancho died, you've started to get this information. Yes. Okay. The El Mentional thing really, like, changed so much. And so much of that was just so weird. I know we got into the guts of this last time I was here,

where the scene just looked set up and why is there no photo of his dead body? When that would be such, that was such a win for Mexico in a way that I feel like if it was the truth, they would have milked the fuck out of it. They've done it with every other kingpin. So, yeah, I really want to tell that story.

I want to get it and try to get as much information as possible. Yeah, now, you were there. We had you on episode 392 right after you went to the compound. And you covered that last time and talked about you were there literally three days after he was killed or something like that. And we got to see some of the videos you took and you talked about how strange. Yeah, just like shell case. Things littered everywhere, but no bullet holes, no damage. Yeah.

Now, have you got, has there been more to that since then? Have you been able to talk to people that have corroborated, I don't know, some theories about that or why it would have been that way? Or is it still a huge question mark? For me, it's still a huge question mark. And I go back and forth on this and because I've still been trying to pursue the story and fully understand what the power dynamic of CG and G looks like from within Mexico. I have just not been presented with enough solid facts or it's very frustrating because

nothing seems to have changed, which means either Almancho isn't dead or CER3 has been the leader for a long fucking time already. Unless I'm just thinking outside the box here from totally outside looking in, And Lester was, unbeknownst to us, which it didn't appear this way, by the way, when he got killed. And Lester was a very clear secession plan already long set up, meaning like zero traces is essentially right next to Al Mancho, hand in hand doing everything. And so when El Mancho gets taken out, he's already been right there, maybe not necessarily, like literally in charge, but he's had his hand on the wheel.

So now he just takes it. Totally possible. But I think it would be good to understand. understand what the internal dynamics look like right now. Also, what are their plans in terms of Sinaloa? Because CGNG has that alliance with the Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel. And that hasn't changed? No, that still exists.

Yeah. So that alliance, like, are they sending bodies or are they send in more weapons kind of deal? It's both, but mostly manpower. Yeah. Wow. And I actually found out that. After El Mention was killed, a ton of the guys who were sent over for that alliance to Sinaloa retreated. Like on their own or were told to?

Unclear. Unclear. All I know is that there was at the high level of retreat. Everyone got the fuck out of there. And I'm, that's what I'm curious about because does that mean they were under the impression that the alliance would fall through because Kingpin has been taken. out? Or was it that this alliance really isn't as strong as we think? Or I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. It could be, you know, I don't want to oversimplify it, but sometimes you'll see in like college football or the NFL or the NBA or something like

that. There will be a longtime head coach and there's a retirement plan in the sense that he's going to leave and so and so who's already on the staff is going to take his place. And that's in his right hand forever, their best friends, he's been training them and all that. But when so and so takes over, yes, there's continuity, but so and so may be like, yeah, I'm going to bring in my own athletic trainer, though. It's not like every single thing is going to be the same. So I wonder if, again, playing out that scenario I just pointed out a few minutes ago, it's like, if it's like there was a clear, the scenario is that there was a clear succession plan and zero trace took over, part of the thing that might have been a different calculation for him was, you know what,

maybe we don't need to get involved in that as much and basically calls the boys home. Let's worry about this. And they're all like, oh, yeah, okay. We know he's coming in charge. We knew that going in. We're good. Let's do it. And that would also play into what I talked about with you last time that it's quite possible

that El Mentiona was going to surrender during this operation and he wasn't supposed to die. He was just supposed to be taken into custody because his son requested to reduce his sentencing. in December, so two months before Mencho was taken out. Yeah. So with him running it, though, it's been pretty business as usual. It's been business as usual entirely because after all of this happened, I really thought that we would see like a Kulikana so type of thing, right? Where a lot of the top guys, Sapo, Hardinero are gunning for power. we didn't see that happen and then had the needle was captured in like april so it it seems like

there are really big players within cg and g that are falling however the actual organization seems to be business as usual and running very smoothly which is not typical for yeah an ocg yeah now how it how has their business been with the new administration being, you know, obviously still have a lot of problems on the border, but being much stricter as opposed to the previous administration, just from like a flow and revenue standpoint. Well, the thing is flow in terms for CG and G has been pretty solid because this administration, their main concern was the fentanyl, right? I mean, oh, so they say, even though they didn't declare it a WMD until like a year later in December. But,

And CG&G is very much humans, meth, coke, and fuel theft, what you call. That's all business as usual. And cocaine is flooding the U.S. like never before with no problem. So with the human part, though, obviously there's a lot that goes into that, everything from like coyotes running and people across the border and stuff, which obviously on some level they're still able to do. But like you broke open the story with La Diablo that you referenced earlier that, you know, was this horrible thing where the babies yeah where they're basically abducting young mothers getting them

pregnant and stripping the babies out and then selling them which is just like can't even imagine that but after your report came out the united states and mexican authorities were able to at least get rid of that node but are there other operations even if it's not the same thing that are similar in their level of disgustingness that they're doing the human trafficking stuff is actually happening within Mexico. Within Mexico. Yeah. So they're bringing in women from Colombia, Venezuela, you know, South America, and they're working them in Mexico, whether it's in Mexico City or border towns. They're sourcing them from other South American countries. So they have obviously operations

on the ground in those countries. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yes. And CGNGG has a really tight Colombian connection. Is it more like associates in Columbia who work directly with them or is it like literally they're sending their guys to the OA team? Both. And mostly they have like CG and G guys posted up in Columbia. And then what do they do, traffic these girls in shipping containers? It's mostly just it's flights.

They're not like kidnapping victims. They're being offered modeling jobs or waitress jobs. And then when they get there. Yeah. They're working as prostitutes. And even for some of the girls, they're being told like, and even a lot of them are going to Europe, to Spain. Yep. Amsterdam.

So the cartels has serious operations there on the ground. Yeah, especially for the sex trafficking because they have access to the women. And so even a lot of these girls, they, some of them are already like sex workers in a capacity in like Columbia, for example. okay and then they'll meet a guy who's like do you want to make like 20,000 dollars but you have to go to Spain yeah okay and then obviously once they get there they're being work to the bone and they have to pay off the debt that they incurred by being brought over there right your plane ticket your lodge and board all of that so that's problematic and obviously those debts never go away they just continue to grow. Of course. It's all set up. It's basically a Ponzi scheme to keep them in.

It's a lone shark into the highest degree to keep them in. And after what happened in the earthquake in Venezuela, it really picked up too. Because what's the correlation there? So there's this massive environmental crisis, right? And everyone's freaking out. And law enforcement or authorities, whatever, responding to so many different things, everyone's looking a different direction. So kids and girls are getting picked up whether it's kidnapped whether it's through they're being lured

it's a big problem it's a big problem because they become very vulnerable I think there's actually some like public videos about it the fact that and this is way beyond the cartels this is an international thing this is something

unfortunately it's huge in America too the fact that a business a crime like human trafficking, whether it's kids, whether it's women, any form of it, the fact that it is as large and rampant of a fucking Fortune 5 company, if you will, around the world to this day, with all the technology we have,

all the interconnection we have, all the, I don't know, more awareness on the stuff we have, the fact that it is that large is one of the most oppressive. things ever because it's like, man, will we ever be able to get rid of it, even if people are still so willing and able to do it and get away with it in the highest of places of society and all over the place in the world that is that interconnected? I actually think that that expansion of tech helps them. It's not something that is a deterrent or like helps authorities. It helps them. Like, for example, okay, 20 years ago, money laundering was straight up cash and you're giving like the number on the bill, which is like the password to hand over the cash, blah, blah, blah.

Now it's all crypto and remittance. And you can't trace any of that. So as tech evolves, so does their capacity as criminal organizations. There should be some sort of cancellation out, though. You know, and like we, I worry so much about the surveillance state and shit like that. Trust me. There's a lot there. Like, that's not what I'm going at at all.

But I'm like, there should be some ability to get more communication among the public, like the, the masses to be able to assist in stopping this. Now, I got to say, in America, I think that should be a lot easier. And we do a horrible job with that here. I have to admit in a place like Mexico, for example, like the place. that you mentioned earlier where the whole town's fucking in on it. It's hard. It's just so sad that something like that exists so openly today. But it's hard.

It's really shitty. And it's really hard to when you begin to understand the level of how many people are affected by this, it's brutal. And there's so much money involved in so many different people in high places that there is no end in it. The question that I was always getting asked was, okay, well, how do you end the cartels or how do you end drugs? And people are, oh, you know, you just have to kill the demand. Well, obviously, there's a demand for everything. That's never going to work. And after seeing and doing this sex trafficking story and seeing that it's not that your daughter is just going to be scooped up off the street and ends up in a brothel in Tijuana.

It's that she's going to fall in love with some guy and be so deeply manipulated that just like the woman I interviewed, after having been pimped out by him for 10 years, she still considers him to be her husband. Even when she's presented with the evidence that it was an operation. The worst. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Literally told me he's right now because he runs girls in the United States with his family. but I have a child with him so I will never cut him off and that was my first love

and I said to her I said how can you love someone or continue to be with someone who made your life a living hell and she said because if I'm not with him I will be alone because no other man will accept me for having done what I did but he accepts me bro it was fucking insane

he accepts me for the things that he made me do in the first place I said, what is that like having to have given sexual services to 30 men every night for 10 years? She's like, it's the worst thing you could possibly imagine. She said she didn't sleep for years, like literally did not sleep. How do you have any, I don't know how you have any kind of human connection or relationship in any way after subjecting yourself to something like that? It's always transactional. It's purely, you can't.

And I interviewed a woman who, she's not trafficked, and she works as a prostitute in a border town and does like her own thing. Like she's independent, she's been doing it for like over 20 years. And I said to her, I was like, how do you have personal relationships or romantic relationships? Because I brought up the other woman, I said, the other woman I spoke to said,

she will never be able to. And she says, I can. But if there's no money piece, it doesn't work. That sense of a genuine, romantic or loving connection has been completely destroyed. That does not exist anymore. And I can only imagine how much worse it would be for someone like the woman in Tla Scala that I spoke to

who was absolutely betrayed by someone she thought loved her. Yeah. The fact that that's such a common operation they run to is wild. She said when they went to T.J. There were five other girls in and out living in the house with them because that's all the girls he was running. And he was... He had done that to all them. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Had he married all them? He didn't marry all of them. I don't actually even know if she's legally married to him. But he was all of their... boyfriend, love of their lives. And she knows that. Yeah. But she also said she goes, but there's a part of him that loves me and I was shook to my core.

What do you say to that? I have, oh, I cried in this interview. Like I started tearing up and I was trying to hold it back and that's never happened to me. Or it did with the mom in Juarez. But when you're hearing that, like, Like, you have been so battered and just everything, stripped of everything that you have, your identity, dignity, anything, it's all gone. I felt so bad for her.

Genuinely, I felt so sorry for her. How did she react when you were crying? Oh, because she was crying. Oh, she was. Yeah. What made her cry? What was it that made her cry? Oh, what made her cry?

I asked her, because she has a son. And I said, if you had had a daughter and I was going to ask her what would have happened if she had had a daughter, like, would she also be recruited into this? And before I could finish my question, she was like, I prayed to God every night that I would never get pregnant with a girl. And then she's bawling. And she goes, I would never want to have a daughter. I would never bring a girl into this world because it's horrible for women.

Whoa. So she knows in the back of her head what it is, but then there's a cognitive dissonance in the front about the guy who's the root cause of her having that opinion in the first place. That's heavy as fuck. What about her son? Is she worried about him being recruited into doing what his dad does? I asked that and she said she doesn't know and she's going to cross that bridge when it gets there. Cross that bridge when? Because I said that. I said, would your your son's father take him and bring him into this? And she goes, I don't know. But what I'm trying to do is raise him the best I can so that if that is ever. presented to him. He knows that it's wrong. Does the son have a relationship with the father? Yeah. And has no idea. He has no idea. That he was the devil to his mother.

And I said that to her. I said, why didn't you just take off with the kid and just ditch this guy entirely? And she goes, I'd never want, I didn't want my child to grow up without a father. This one. I know. Did you say that? What? Like I, you probably would have said that a lot. nice of me but like even that one like that guy yeah like like like that's i i can't say that that's a

judge that's a judge that's of course that's what i'm saying you're not going to say it like that but was there a way you were able to be like have you thought about the trade off of like this being his father versus not having a father which also isn't great agreed i mean i've spoken with some really evil people who are great parents yeah yeah love their kids yeah I've heard that about a lot of cartel guys, by the way. Oh, they're like that they are top notch for that. Evil, but treat their kids like they're absolute angels when it comes to their kids. And so even though this guy is definitely a horrible person and ruin this woman's life,

oh, and I actually asked for that. I said, did he ruin your life? And I know, would never ask something like that, but it was so in it with her. and she said yeah well so she knows that and she's still but there's some weird it's it's it's it's what do you call it like Helsinki syndrome is that what that is like that no it's not Helsinki it's um Stockholm Stockholm yeah yeah Helsinki it's another one over there milano syndrome whatever um yeah that's what it is because then I was telling her I'm like uh oh so he's in the States so you don't see him.

She goes, he comes sometimes. He pays for costs related to the child, allegedly. So he's in all the time. I take it he's not a citizen of the United States. I don't know. I almost think he might be. Based on the way she was telling me about certain operations of his. And with the whole family, too.

And she. she said, yeah, he pays for all of her stuff. And then I asked her, well, what do you think you would have done if this didn't happen? And she's like, I always, I like baking. I would have liked to have a bakery. Bro, that shit is so fucking sad. Like, that's just the simplest way to put it. You wanted to be a baker?

Where are her parents? Are they alive? So this is why this is such a twofold problem because I met with her family. family because I asked her why she didn't call her family and ask for help and she said, well, he was monitoring my phone and also, you know, I didn't want to burden my parents, whatever. And when I met with her family, they still refer to him as their son-in-law. Didn't you say, correct me from wrong, they were targeting like young, innocent, preferably virgin, conservative households?

Oh, she lost her virginity with him. Right. Yeah. So this is like a very family values kind of household. you're talking to and they referred to him as the son-in-law. And they knew. I'm under the impression that they were profiting off of it. The family?

Yeah. Yeah. You'll see it in my report. I really lay it all out how it makes sense. What made you think that? How they talked about how he paid for these renovations on their house and they added like... Oh, man. And they said that open.

And I said, did you ever wonder like what was happening to your daughter while she was into one of her 10 years and they said, well, you know, we figured that she was fine because she was with him. And it's very common in this region, Lexcala, for families to just kind of turn a blind eye or be complicit in it because they're also receiving money from it. And I think that's why she was so willing to talk to me and tell me her story because there was like this part of her in the back of her mind that knew all these truths, but is so traumatized, too traumatized to accept them. And based on our phone call, I think she realized,

if I tell this girl what happened, like, at least someone will fucking know. Does that make sense? And I hope that doesn't sound egotistical. No, no, she had nowhere else to turn. There's who's she going to talk to. Your family is profiting and bragging about the money that they're making from.

you getting fucked all for like just oh my god and I don't even literally mean like fucked like sex I mean like literally just getting fucked over did you tell them did you tell the family the details of what you knew about her yeah not no that not my place you have to definitely not I would never do that to someone because I don't know what they know or under the impression that they probably know in the back their head. Oh, they know. Things are happening.

They know. Yeah. Did you talk to her about after, so you talked to her, then you talk to the family in that order, right? I talked to her family and then her. Oh, and then her. Okay. So remind me here, did you already know the details before you talked with her about what

specifically was happening to her other than that she was traffic, meaning like, did you know she was sleeping with 30 guys a night? No. That's all from her. Okay. I, I, I, to the extent that what I knew about her was, she was trafficked to Tijuana and was there for 10 years. That was all I knew.

And the family told me that. They said she used the word traffic. No, they said that she was working. Willingly went, yeah. But you at least knew that wasn't true at the time. You knew, okay. But you didn't know the details. I didn't know how bad she had it.

And I felt kind of stupid too when she started telling me. And I was like, how the fuck did I not? Yeah, but how would you? I mean, that's horrific. I was also so paranoid to meet with her because this was like literally the day after we got, they tried to run us off the highway. So I was like, fuck, I'm going to get set up. This is going to be some bullshit.

Especially if she's still with the trafficking guy. Like, we're, we're going to get fucking killed. It wasn't in a public place at all. I brought her to a hotel room. To my hotel room, actually. But I had already packed everything in the car so that right after the interview would just get the hell of there. Yeah.

Did you, and again, maybe this totally isn't your place, but after talking with her for a while, did you ask her if she would be willing at this point to herself, I'd not come clean, but like confront her family, like, hey, this is happening to me or this is happening. I definitely did not ask that. And also, she's so beaten down. Right. That's not someone who can even, that won't even cross her mind. She's still with him in a sense.

That's crazy. Offered, by the way, to call him during our interview and not say that I'm there and talk about things with him that happened in TJ. Would that have, would that have been like, oh my God, crazy for the story and for the people watching? Yes. but that is so dangerous for her. So I was like, fuck, no.

Yeah. Good call. Now, you talked with another trafficker in Tijuana too, right? Mm-hmm. The second one? Mm-hmm. Was this guy the same as the first one? Very similar or what were the vibes here?

Same vibes. Same vibes. Did he work with the first one? No, separate. Separate. Separate. Okay. But here's the thing.

One thing that I keep being told over and over again by all, all these people involved that I talk to are like, there's a difference between being a sex trafficker and a pimp. And even though they're considered the same. Okay. And I'm like, yeah, because it's the same fucking thing. But they are convinced. No, I'm not a sex trafficker.

I'm just a pimp. Tomato tomato. I don't understand. I know. What is there cognitive logic there? If you're in charge of women who are sleeping with other men and profiting off of that because they say, well, we're not kidnapping them. This is like a thing. They're like, we're not kidnapping them.

If they want to leave, they can't. Yeah, okay. So you should have said, all right, if I pick one out and she's okay leaving, I'm going to offer her job, you'll just let her walk out of here. They won't leave, though. They won't because they are in love with the trafficker. Yeah. They won't. Yeah, it's also like grooming 101.

Oh, textbook. Textbook. So it's not even possible to consider them free will employment. If I went to one of these girls right now who's on the corner and in that situation and said, I'll give you $10,000 if you never come back here and like you start a business and like do something, go school, I don't know, whatever, she'll end up back there or she won't leave in the first place. That's crazy. And I actually, I watched a movie about this.

by, I think Sam Baker, the same guy who did, like, Enora. Okay. And, right? Yeah. And Florida Project. He did this movie, what is it, like white lines and palm trees or something like that? And it's literally what this is happening. And I remember watching that and thinking, okay, fiction, right? But this is super fucked up.

And then I go and I do this story and I had this moment of realization. I'm like, this is exactly like that movie. but this is real life. And this is exactly how it's happening. And we got it, Dee. Yeah, from 2022. Jamie Dack explores the chilling and isolating relationship between a disconnected 17-year-old girl

and a man twice her age. And he does this to her. Like he literally is like, okay, baby, we need money now. And she's so in love with him. She sleeps with the guy. She's so disgusted and scared, leaves him, and then goes right back with him. Goes right back with him.

Is this in America? Yeah. So it's also. But it's fiction. But it's, this is literally what's happening. And it's so sad. Yeah, it happens all the time. Imagine your family's also profiting off of it.

Fuck off. It's like a, you know, we use the example all the time for different contexts of like the Truman show and how all those actors can go, hey, Truman, you're not going to do that, right? And they just do that for years and years and years to this poor guy who's in the middle of a reality TV show that he doesn't know he's in. That same kind of like horror film, you're going to do what I tell you to do, right? That's exactly. That's exactly what exists in all this. And you're seeing it live.

You're in the middle of it and you're like, you son of a bitch. You know, even if you don't know, like with the parents, exactly what she's doing. You know it's evil. You know she's being used like crazy. your daughter's probably being run through by a bunch of dangerous people. Nasty people. But you got your house reservation or renovation. That's how much you value your daughter. So how do you expect a woman like that to value

herself? Are there identities on camera or are you blurring out their identities? I made her wear a belliclava. Right. The family though. Oh family? No, no, not. Because I don't want to identify her. Yeah, good call. At the end of the day, oh yeah, there's certain, expose exposure shit i could do whatever but i always have to think about the source and her safety and livelihood of course life so yeah no there's so much that has to be blurred cut out can't even include in the episode because i don't want any of it to come back to her yeah and you were saying obviously obviously there's certain things that aren't your place like your job is to capture the story and you know these are the people who are in it but she obviously trust

obviously trusted you to a strong extent to even come do this. And then you talked with her for a while. It got personal. You're seeing all the different dichotomies here. You know, after that, I'm not saying you're blunt with her like, hey, I'll help you out or anything like that. But have you had any conversations with her that are like, I don't want to know. I don't want to say like manipulating it all, but like in a good way, like trying to

mentally guide her to see like, hey, you know, maybe this isn't. Maybe there's a better life there. No, that's not my place. If she asked me for help, I would see if I could give it. But I would never offer help because it can just make things worse. Yeah. I learned that the hard way. You can't even no matter how bad you feel.

You can't try to change someone's situation unless they're actively seeking it out. When did you learn that? Like a few years ago. You don't want to talk about it? No. You can't, especially people in such like harrowing situations like this. and it's so beyond me and it's not my job

if you know if she called me and said can you help me with some and I can maybe I will or put point her in the right direction

to get what she needs but I would never on my own free will call her and say hey let me help you out with this because a lot of the times you can just make shit worse you're never supposed to give help unless people ask

unless people ask yeah and I wouldn't be saying be that blunt about it but you know what I mean where you're like trying to guide the puck towards one end of the ice and you're saying don't do that at all also it's like yeah I know she's so in her head

there's no way also side note I just realized maybe we should bleep when I see because I just gave so many details about her life to you getting lost in the sauce okay let's make and we'll go back that could probably identify her

because I say she has a kid with the guy in Lasca la la la la that's too much All right, I'm going to pick it up and say we lost audio for a second. Okay, sorry. No, you're good. Good. Camera on me. All right, sorry, we lost audio for one second, but we were just closing the loop on this girl in her situation.

Are you working on some other stories that aren't her that are related to this subject matter right now as well? No, I need a break. You know how it is. Yeah. These are the worst ones. And these are the ones that I said I was never going to do. But now I can't not. Right.

But I need a break. from this. So now we focus back on Cartel Girl 101 and hopefully unpack the new or pre-existing power dynamic within CG and what that looks like and what it means for Mexico. And also Mexican elections will be coming up soon. Before we get there, though, are you allowed to talk about on air that thing you and I were talking about you potentially doing for a story that currently hasn't happened yet. Oh yeah, no, don't bring that up. Don't bring that up. Okay. And that's like, we're on air right now, so don't say anything.

No, I know. And but that's also like the, yeah, that's a big one. And I, it's been very hard to get. So I don't want to bring that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was supposed to have that before coming to you. That's why you were coming here. I'm so sorry. No, it's all good. This is how it goes. Yeah. Fuck. No, it's no, it's all good. I hope, I hope that works out. I'm so frustrated about that because it will be the fucking story. again just be careful because every time you're doing these stories i was literally going to say like that's the one story where it's like a 50 50 i come out of there alive which aren't terrible odds because that's like 50 percent i actually live you know maybe don't do that one no i have to if it's you don't have to do anything it's incredible that would be incredible journalism but so here's

my devil's advocate to that i know for a fact that there are things in the past that you made the correct decision to not go all the way and try to go farther on stories where it was clear, very clear, that like it'll definitely be the last story you ever do at the very least. You know what I mean? And if that is coming up, if with what you're thinking of is coming up against that kind of fence, you know, you already do a lot of great work. There's other ones out there. You know what I mean?

Like I'm dead serious Like you should if something I know you're joking a little bit Maybe I like miss out on certain stuff by saying no You know And you're always going to wonder that And I think that this story is It's so valuable

To all the reporting that I do Like it's invaluable information And it's worth it Yeah It's a good one Have you bumped into stories

Where you're seeing outside of like El Mayo and stuff that's public and obvious where you get the alarm bells going up that there's strong intelligence involvement whether it's from the U.S. side or other places. Oh, totally. All the time. Yeah. And it's really obvious. Yeah.

What makes it obvious? Well, how long ago did it happen that the two CIA officers died in a car crash in Chihuahua? That wasn't long ago. That was a few months, two, three months ago. Yeah, that was not that long ago. No. And then the Mexican president saying she didn't know about that, but she doesn't technically have to know about that.

But you would think that like if there are two known CIA operatives dismantling a meth lab in Chihuahua on Mexican soil, that that probably means that the U.S. is in your country. Probably. I feel like they've been here a while. Not to mention they were dressed in Mexican cop uniforms. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.

And then, you know what my problem with this is? So this has been like the one thing that everybody asks me, especially over the course of the last two years of like, is American intelligence in Mexico? Are there boots on the ground in Mexico? And I was always like, yeah. And then people were like, this girl is trying to perpetuate an invasion in Mexico.

That's what she wants. I don't want that. I'm just telling you how it is. Like it's right in front of our faces. And if you're denying it, You're just fucking stupid. They declared them terrorist organizations. What typically happens after the United States does that?

And what? So I've asked this of pretty much everyone to come in here, I think, including you, four months ago when you were last year. But like, you know, in your view, what is completely stopped those types of operations, like clear boots on the ground, boom, boom, kill, kill, from happening since they declared this, what? Over a year ago now? Something like that? They don't need to do that if they're turning these guys against. each other. The cartels are doing that for them. They don't need to do these fucking, like, carpet bombing shit. It just gives them optionality. They literally, what do you do? You turn

the cartel against each other, like with what they did with Sinaloa by capturing Mayo. I was just in Kulia Khan. I saw it. They're killing each other. It's a fucking blood bath. So why would the U.S. need to go in and do it and then be considered the enemy when they can do it so low-key and with their sci-op shit that they're getting what they want anyways. No, I'm not, I want to be clear before I say this, because you got to be clear about this stuff now apparently with the internet. I'm not advocating for any of his fucking cartel guys down there or saying, oh my God, we always get this fucking comment.

We always get this comment. She fucks everyone in the cartel. That's why they give her access. I mean, I wasn't going there, but yeah, that's ridiculous too. I'm just saying like, it's similar vibes to me. And I've cited this with other examples of other stuff before. Like you had Scott Besant with Treasury Secretary of the United States going to Davos in January and bragging to people laughing about the fact that he was about to put new sanctions on Iran that was going to bring their currency effectively to zero, which he then knew would cause people to go into the street to say nothing of the people on the ground are probably going to help make that happen as well, which would force a regime, which is bad people that run the regime, to then be bad and kill the people there and result in hopefully some revolution. that didn't end up happening, by the way.

And he was laughing about this. And it's like, no one's arguing that the regime's good. But like, if I walk outside and I see a fentanyl addict fucking cracking out and I go inside and I go get a semi-automatic weapon for him and load it and then hand it to him and he goes and kills people, well, I think I get tried in a court of law for accessory to murder. So to me, the Iran thing is similar to that in a way. Oh, totally. And then when I look at this, there's innocent people to get caught in the crossfire of this stuff too.

So when you just hit that button, it's like, yeah, you know, I'll just get after this gun, make sure those motherfuckers, it'll all be down there. They'll just fight each other. It's like there's got to be. And they know that. And they know it's not going to spill over the border. And that was, we, I was always getting that question. And I don't know. I think you might have brought it up, but I think you're too smart to ask me a stupid question like that.

I got that on a few podcasts. Well, is this going to spill over into the border? Thank you. Why would that happen? Do you really think cartels are going to declare war on the United States of America? Do you know how many times people ask me that? They're business guys and they're not dummies either. They want money.

Yeah. Point blank. Yeah, you got to know. They're providing a good and a service where there is high demand and very high profit. You imagine if the cartels like, you know, blew up a fucking building in the United States? They'd be gone. Like a couple A couple days later

That would be Literal suicide Right If they I agree And I must say If that ever happens Just no It was not the cartel

I don't even think That would be a good False Flag candidate I think there's a million I'd do before that If I were the US government Oh yeah totally Yeah

I think you're right about that though No they would never do that They even cleaned it up after the Almencho thing, it was like 24 hours. They're like, okay, we're good, thank you. Sorry. We'll just file out. Everyone good?

All right, cool. It's like cars are still burning and shit. Like, they're business. They're crazy. They're bad guys, but you're absolutely right. They're business. Yeah. And I do think that's a big.

And attention is bad for business. Negative attention is bad for their business. Yep. And that's why like when people are always like, cat, why haven't they killed you yet? Because that's just bad for business. It is way, I hate to put it like this. It's just true, just optically speaking, looking at it from like the U.S. seat.

It would be way worse if they killed an English-speaking journalist who operates in any capacity ever in the United States or Canada or something. Versus, and it's still bad optics, but killing one of their own. Oh, I know. You know? But also here's like when it's not even about the optics when they kill one of their own. It's about the impunity because nothing ends up happening after that. And that story dies. just with her, which is so tragic.

Oh, it's so fucked up. But that's how it operates in Mexico. Yeah. And we see this time and time again. And I'm always concerned for my friends who are journalists in Mexico, like, especially the ones in Kulayakan. They're in the fucking trenches.

And they're incredible and incredibly talented people. Do you, are there any you know, I feel like I know the answer to this question, but are there any of them down there that you know well, who speak English as well, who would ever be willing to come in here?

Or would that be way too dangerous for them to do? The English is the problem. Really? Yeah. You think some of them would do it on camera in the United States? Wait, who are you asking about? Like one of the journalists? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, they would definitely do it. Really? Totally. Oh, these people have big balls. Clearly. Oh, they are. They do not. I think the English would be the problem.

Mm-hmm. Still, good on them. I mean, that's, you know. If ever one of them, And they're seeing the worst shit. Yeah. Like I was there for two weeks and I saw so many dead people and I was like, okay, it's time to get the hell out of here.

And there's just a lot of when you're in a place like that, there's just weird stuff going on at all times. You can feel it. You see certain. Something's weird. Something's off always. And also keep in mind like, yeah, some of these people are getting gunned down. Other of them, others are getting like mutilated and you're arriving to the.

the scene with like to report and it's like a head in a pizza box with like the legs hanging from some like for all of our problems that we have here and we have plenty of self-inflicted problems and issues that we fight over and shit like that in America. I'm not I'm not saying like we're in the greatest moment right now. But just some of the basic like social contract acceptances that at least exist in this country across 99.9% of the population, I literally wake up some days, partially because I do this job

and hear about all kinds of things all over the world, where I'm like grateful, literally, that we just have at least that because you're talking about places right now where it is an accepted norm. Yes. That they have to live with things that are literally animalistic

and there's fuck all they can do about it. Yes. And that's why it's very hard for me every time I come to the United States because I am an absolute cunt at dinner table conversations. I can't do it. You're going to tell me about your fucking allergies?

Shut up. First of all, allergies don't exist. It's mental. Second of all, I literally just saw like 30. I used to say the same thing. And now what? You're allergic to milk? That doesn't happen.

I got really sick for four years. Oh, we talked, you told me about this. I used to say the same thing to people when they would walk in, they'd be like, oh, the pollen sucks outside. Shut up. Shut the fuck up. But yeah, when I got it bad, whoa.

When you're seeing this day and day out, right? It obviously changes your brain chemistry. And we talked about this, and this is why there is this incentive for young people to join the cartels and not feel any sort of way about it. Because they've absolutely dismantled any sense of humanity, right? And so two stories about this when I was, I was just in Tijuana because I was doing this story, right? The trafficking one. Mm-hmm. But I decided to do like a little ride along with another really talented reporter there who also covers the breaking crime news.

And so we go to a homicide and it's this guy like a homeless guy murdered. 15 bullet holes. What the hell? And, you know, this was the first, the first body that I've seen, killed like that where it was someone who you just know was like not involved at all. And that felt so fucking different. Because in Kulia Khan, and I never wanted to be this bitch, but I'm becoming that bitch. In Kulia Khan, everyone that you're seeing murdered is like involved in some way.

And like even when their families are like at the scene crying and grieving, they're almost, they have the sense of like, fuck it finally did happen. You know? Oh, Jesus. because there's like this awareness of some level of involvement. It's like you're living with a guillotine over your head. But in T.J, it was different because this guy was not involved at all. And it was the first time I saw something like that.

And it felt terrible. And then a bunch of other, like, homeless guys came up to me and the reporter that I was with. And they're like, is that Sergio? And I'm like, I don't know. Do you know him? And then the guy looks. And I'm like, hey, look. And I zoom in on my camera so he can see.

And he goes. Fuck, it's Sergio. And I'm like, what, what happened? He goes, I don't fucking know, but this is not, he wasn't like that. Just like a normal guy. Come to find out that it was a distraction for something because in that same moment, like 11 or 12 people were detained at Tijuana Airport with kilos. And there was like another, I don't remember exactly what it was.

There was like another operation. So obviously all the law enforcement attends to this homicide. where it was like just sprayed with bullets this poor guy like an older man he doesn't need to be shot 15 times also probably done by a new recruit who they are trying to dismantle his humanity and any sense of feeling

by telling him go and fucking kill this guy and he's also probably a bit nervous he's probably on drugs so he just empties the fucking clip that's another thing and you talk about this a lot but like I never understood why the cartels sanctions so many of their, I don't want to say sanctioned, but are okay with so many

of their rank and file like being on drugs. Like rule number one, don't get high on their own supply. For the Sicarioes, they need them to be on drugs. Because they're not thinking about any consequences. They're amped up. You get a guy on meth, he'll go and kill whoever you need. And he'll make sure he's dead because he's just trigger happy. And a lot of those guys will do it for cheaper if they're getting the dope. like if they're supplying their drugs you can pay me less because at least I'm getting my high for this job

but there was so much murder that and I was exhausted I've been like on one it's just been assignment after assignment and I went to take a nap and I knew that I was going to get my period and when I took a nap I had a dream that I was in an OXOXO which is a Mexican corner store

because I was craving cookies with ice cream so I'm dreaming that I'm getting cookies with but they start shooting up the oakso in my dream and so I dropped to the floor and continue to eat my ice cream I have these nightmares all the time it's terrible where they're like I'm getting shot at but I keep surviving every bullet and then I only woke up from the dream not because I was scared but because the cookie and the dream tasted so good I was drooling and the drool woke me up so imagine and I don't live in Kuleika and I don't live in Tjj like I'm not Mexico City this is urban normal normalcy

to an extent right But these people are living with this day and day out. You can never turn it off. And then I have law enforcement telling me that we're just here to attend. We're not here to prevent. We're not here to stop this war. So all of the young people witnessing this are just going to be, like you said, the next guy's in charge. Hmm.

I've done probably 25 podcasts. at this point on cartels and stuff. Like we've done so many across a lot of people. This is your fifth time in here. And the Ed Calderones of the world and people on this side of the border who are fighting against it and things like that and people going across the border to do that.

And like the one kind of like cynically depressing thing is that it really is just a dark flat circle. Like the whack-a-mole, One guy gets gone, the next three mushrooms sprout up. And, you know, you'd like to think there's a light, even if it's far off at the end of a tunnel somewhere. But this one just feels like, you know, I'm going to be 75 years old talking about whoever's in charge of whatever. It's never going to end. It's never going to end.

It's never going to end. But does it go the way of like the Italian-American mafia still operates with some power here? here, right? But they're not what they were when they built that shit. That skyline right there. They're not that. They're a tenth of that today. And it's like devil, you know, devil's less powerful. Okay. Cool. Do you see a scenario where we could be sitting here 20, 30 years from now? And we're thinking that way about the cartels. I think that there's definitely not in 20 or 30 years. But also, I just genuinely think that there's so much money circulating. and so many industries that are run by them that I don't think it will get to that.

And I think too many people profit off of it. And they just have too much power. They have too many legitimate industries too. That's the, yeah. Yeah, what's the, what's the deal? You said the, like the CJNG, the crude oil. The crude oil is operating business as usual. Oh, so many American refineries are buying stolen crude oil from Mexico through the cartels.

I mean, are you aware of? any active investigations into that on our side of the border for the people doing it yeah yeah there's actually this uh the jensen's or whatever from utah father and son yeah but that one that one's been happening that one like that's like a year now if it's so rampant and then they just got a massive tanker at the san diego port filled with stolen oil and a u.s buyer mm-hmm mm-hmm did are they prosecuting that i don't know that one i don't know you gotta know who you're fucking buying that. You shouldn't be doing it at all. It's illegal, but like... No, they do know. Yeah. They're buying it for like 50% of the price.

That's crazy. And again, like the whole drug market in America is why the cartels even exist in the first place. Like the marketability and us buying it here. And so many people involved in high levels of Mexican government are directly profiting off of the stolen crude oil. They're like fully involved in that. More than drugs even. Do we have any idea how big of a business that is, dollar was? Oh, I did have this number in my head, and I don't have it in my head right now. Can we Google it, Dief? What's the estimated dollar value on illegal cartel-related crude oil per year?

I think it's like 70 million? I don't remember. So it says, 12 billion. 12 billion to 21 billion annually. The stolen oil and illicit fuel business in. Mexico, this vast underground economy makes up an estimated 16 to 27% of all fuel consumed in the country. So I'd say, obviously, including the intrastate, intra-country trafficking of it as well. But that's why. Direct theft alone accounts for nearly $1.2 to $1.5 billion in losses to Pemex

each year. Yeah, because fuel is monopolized. Yeah, in Mexico. It's just, it's just There's nothing else. It's federal. That's crazy. What's been happening with Ryan Wedding? I haven't heard shit about that. So his jeweler, this guy who bought his jewelry,

they're trying to extradite him to the U.S. The guy who bought his jewelry? Hold on, wait, let me get this right because I actually have not had time to go in that night. I was just wanting to report on a friend. All right, for everyone out there is a refresher. Well, Kat's looking that up.

Ryan Wedding, prominent international drug trafficker working with the cartels used to be an Olympic snowboarder, right? Or skier? Snowboarder, yeah. Snowboarder for the Canadian national team ended up down in Mexico, became, I guess he thought he was Pablo Escobar, and that was in Colombia and was wanted for a long time. And then, what was that? He surrendered himself. He surrendered himself to authorities and he was extradited to the U.S. Right.

And that was what? Like a... No, those were a few months ago. January. Yeah, yeah. So six, seven months ago, something like that. All right, so Ryan Wedding linked jeweler who bought $13 million Mercedes, a step closer to U.S. extradition.

Extradition hearing set it set for alleged money launderer as co-accused fight moves to face U.S. charges. All right, let's go down. The Toronto area jeweler accused of acting as the, quote, third in command, unquote, in former Olympic snowboarder Ryan Wedding's alleged cocaine empire could be sent to California by the end of the year to stand trial. Roland Sokolovsky, who went by the alias's sushi and apple pie, was ordered, I feel like you can do better than that, was ordered Wednesday to appear for the extradition hearing in Ontario Superior Court on December 3rd. U.S. prosecutors alleged Sokolovsky served as a de facto bank for wedding by moving hundreds of millions in drug money and procuring the longtime fugitive luxury goods, including an ultra-ware $13 million, U.S. Mercedes, CLK, GTR, Roadster, the 38-year-old. former professional poker player appeared Wednesday before a provincial judge by video link from Maplehurst jail in Ontario where he's been detained since his arrest last November.

According to court documents, the Lithuanian-born Sokolovsky is accused of using cryptocurrency platforms and his Toronto area business, Diamond's Tsar, to launder proceeds for Wedding's transnational criminal enterprise. And so this is the one thing that always stands at about wedding is he had so many financial connections transnationally, it linked all the way back to Canada, to the U.S., to Mexico, to Colombia. And I think that's why he was able to grow his so-called empire so, like, expansively because he had all these people involved. And then he had his Canada-based lawyer who was telling him who to take hits out on. And then he had this human trafficker in Colombia who was taking out the

hits for him, he was running it like, no problem. Super violent guy. Also, great father, apparently. Great father. Good for him. Levered about us kids. Like I said, I have heard that a lot. And I wanted to bring that up. He's like the perfect example of this. Yeah. It's a separate part of their brain. It's a switch. It's like in primal fear. There's Aaron and there's Roy. You ever seen that movie? Primal Fear, yes. here's the thing um i think that because ryan wedding was linked to the chapitos and your government for some reason continues to make deals with them uh yeah they like we like them apparently have you noticed that yeah it's almost like we've worked with them for a long time wink wink looking at you

CIA and i think that that'll really help him because that's that's the organization that he was working with. But the U.S., the one thing the U.S. has been doing lately has continuously been making it very clear that they really want the two remaining sons that are free of El Chapo, Jesus Alfredo and Ivan Archibaldo. And for some reason, like every U.S. agency keeps tweeting about it on repeat that they want Ivan. Don't forget, there's $5 million for Ivan.

By the way, nobody gets that money. And so we'll see what happens. But I think that those two will probably go down together. And if that is the case, that in a way is the end of the synaloa cartel as we once knew it. The end because it's a fracture forming brand new cancers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's why as we knew it. Right. Right. Right. But there will be. Yeah. I, again, I almost wonder if that'll end up just being worse then, you know, because you, now it branches off into.

Oh, it's just going to be a shit show for a bit. Right. Now, you and I talked last time. You had just gotten back from Ukraine at the time. And you were doing this report on these quote-unquote cartel mercenaries, effectively, that were fighting on the front lines in Ukraine and you were able to get inside there and see what's going on. You just put out the videos, though. Yes. Looks really good.

Thanks. And there's a report that you. covered that we didn't talk about where what was it the french authorities and so me Mexico and France alerted Ukraine that foreign fighters were being recruited by the cartels mostly purely because they were learning FPV drone tactics in Ukraine and right now Ukraine is like the world's largest um drone war Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a playground for drones. It is. And so cartels had been upping their drone capacity for a while now, and there was even a drone attack on the Attorney General's office

into one a few months ago. And they have made it very clear that they have high level drone capacity, drone blockers, jammers, you name it, to the extent of the Mexican army. And And so they obviously need to train these guys up. So one guy who was a former special forces, no, yeah, former special forces member from Mexico was caught operating in Ukraine to learn FPV drone tactics with fake identification, I think El Salvador based or something like that. He got there, he had really good skills.

His alias was Aguila Siette, Eagle 7. And God, they have such good alias. That's a good alias, I must say. Eagle seven, fire as fuck. Yeah, it is good. Like Appleby? That one sucked. Horrible.

But Eagle seven. Yeah. Anyways. I miss how hard and narrow. I like that. It was such a, he was fun. Do you know why he's a Hardinido? It's because he was known to be so violent,

killed so many people that he would make the mountains in Michoaka and flourish because so many dead bodies. Oh, you did tell me that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was fun. Anyway. Jesus. It's a joke.

It's not funny. People are dying, asshole. I know. I'm taking him to Sinola next time. Okay. So basically, I went over there because I wanted to see, first of all, how these guys are training up on drones. What are the checks and balances in place to ensure that foreign fighters are not actually

going to work for the cartels? But the problem that I realized is that Ukraine needs men. And so they're really taking anyone. And sure, they're doing their security checks. But it's not to the extent of really being able to verify if, first of all, the guys coming in from mostly Colombia are already have some agenda and connections with the cartel. or two, if they are a risk of being recruited by the cartel. There's one sort of popular guy right now who's fighting along the front lines in Mitrokan or in Senaloa.

I don't remember now, but he's a Colombian citizen fought as a foreign fighter in Ukraine and is now working with CG and G. Yeah. And has all three flags on his, like the patches. He's very proud of it. Yes. You've seen it? No, I'm just happy they're proud of that.

Yeah, a little Colombian guy. Yeah, collecting his geopolitical tour guide. Literally. And so they're really amping this up and it's very simple to access this training in a way. It's also important to keep in mind that like, flying and using a drone to kill is a different level of killing

because it's literally like playing a video game and the camera turns off right before, you know, the person explodes. That's right. So you're not feeling like you're killing someone. It's like playing GTA or something. First of all, so it's a mental thing. Second of all, because of Ukraine's active battlefield, it's literally the perfect training ground.

It is the only place really anyone can go for six months and get trained up on this. Not to mention, it's quite simple. Some of these guys are learning how to fly, FPV drones with bombs attached in like under 40 hours. That they can get good at it that fast. Yes. Especially young people, especially if you're young and you grew up playing video games. So it's very problematic and I've been seeing a lot of drone capacity in Mexico on the criminal side.

Not them particularly using it, but showing that if it comes to that, they're ready. And typically they're targeting not even rival cartels with drones. I mean, some of them, but a lot of it, uh, it's ambush against law enforcement and army. That's promising. Yeah, that sounds horrible. Whoa, I didn't even realize. Yeah. That's where I wonder if there will be some who's got a bigger dick drone terrorist threat war stuff taken off the table. You know what I mean? It's one thing to put a bunch of special forces guys on the ground and go, and invade Mexico and obviously they haven't done that and that's probably got a lot of crazy downstream effects but they start fucking around with some drones and shit and now we have the

capacity to be like yeah you're not going to do that but and they they they're not just using some rinky dinky kamikaze drone yeah that's true they have multiple propellers they're loaded with the bombs the missiles ready to drop the bombs ready to drop from the this is where I'm willing to say though I'll bet Narva's got a bigger boat what I'll bet DARPA's got a bigger boat. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's not to, obviously, that's some serious shit right there.

I'm not saying it's not, but that could get interesting if they start doing that. But for the cartels using their drones to fight against Mexican authorities, very effective. Sure. Until maybe the United States steps in on that issue. So now it sounds like you're perpetuating it. No, I'm not. I'm looking at this strictly like black. black and white, like what could the strategy be?

Do you think the U.S. would step in on that if it's just a matter of cartels attacking their own law enforcement and their country? If people are getting killed that are selfishly useful to the United States goals and efforts? Yeah. Yeah. And then if they now have an incentive to say to Shine bomb, hey, we can help out with that. And Shinebom's like, no boots on the ground, right? I'm just playing. I'm not giving an opinion on this.

I'm just playing out the quote unquote war game they'd be playing here. I could see a scenario where that would happen. However, even though Claudia Schaenbaum continuously denies, like, that no boots on the ground in Mexican sovereignty and blah, blah, blah, and she's being strong armed or like kept in the dark, the person that I believe who will probably is a top contender for Mexican presidency in the next election has a great relationship with the United States, loves to police them.

Omar Garcia Harfuch, the secretary of security. It's quite obvious. And there's like the whole sci-op thing going on right now where they're selling like all this merch in Mexico of Harfuch with his shirt off and like a blanket of a shirt. Like what the fuck? They're putting them on calendars and shit too. I wonder who's behind that.

Exactly. Because all of a sudden he was just like the hottest guy in Mexico. Right. Some weird shit. Some weird shit. Have you gotten backlash at all for your report in Ukraine? Yes. Are you allowed to say from who?

People that disagree with the reporting or think it's not happening, that there actually isn't anyone over there who has these intentions and... You got video of it. Literally. There's like an active case about it. SBU Ukrainian intelligence has opened up an investigation. It's been going on for a year. That's crazy.

What other stories you're working on right now? Well, that main secret one that I told you, but... Besides that one. I can't think of anything else. That's the one you're zoned in on. I hope you get it. Me too. It's been fucking brutal.

But just don't risk your life. And I've been doing all this other reporting in the meantime waiting for this to hit. And it's just like very frustrating because I know that that's a very important story. Yeah. Have you looked into the cartel like setting up operations? in Africa at all. Oh my God. Yes. How did we talk about this? I've looked at this a little bit. Have you seen all the Mexican guys that are getting arrested in like Nigeria and South Africa? Yeah. They have massive labs over there.

What kind of labs? Meth. All meth. Mm-hmm. How old is that? And fentanyl. There is some fentanyl there too. Oh, that's nice. How old is that? I don't know. And I was, I've been looking into this. I, it's certainly on my radar because I think it's really interesting. And what I do know is that there are like intelligence reports and law enforcement like trying to track this and crack down on it because I was looking into it. And it seems like a lot of what's happening is there are known operatives of the cartel that are flying over to Africa to like run these labs. But they're taking these very fragmented flight paths because they're. they know that they are being tracked by law enforcement. And I don't know how long it's been going on.

It's a fairly new situation. But I know that it's very effective for them right now. But there have been some crackdowns. There's been a few arrests. Why do you think they're targeting Nigeria and South Africa and particularly? Because of the ports. It's easy to move the precursors in and out of there. A lot of these labs in South Africa and Nigeria are very isolated.

And so they can really operate completely under the radar. Laws aren't as strict, money talks. And it's a great location if you're sending drugs into Europe and the rest. Great spot for business. They're basically everywhere except Antarctica at this point. Maybe they're in Antarctica too. And not in Poland. Yeah.

Don't bring my country into it. They're not in Poland at all. There's nothing bad in Poland. Not one thing. There's no crime. No crime. It is a perfect country. But there's no cartel operations there, is it?

Who the fuck knows? You should find that out. No, I don't because Poland is my safe place. That's all right. Listen, we all have our vices, if you will. Maybe they got a cartel vice there. I don't know. Pure spec.

I don't know. I don't know, but one other thing, you've been working on these stories as well about the cartels in Canada for a long time. And you were putting out some documentaries talking about them targeting like native land up there. Why are they doing that? Because native land in Canada has, and I think in the US too has their own police force. So it's not RCMP like national police and it's, yeah, it's the same thing, right? And typically a lot of the like native land police forces are understaffed. And a lot of these reserves are on like are literally right on the US Canada border and so they can move product across and freely cross the border no problem.

So it's great for trafficking and it's a lot great for trafficking. Nice set up. Yeah. Hot tip. Yeah. And they're hiring a lot of native people like on the land to actually walk the product across. It's purely by and drive it. They're creating jobs.

Yeah. Okay. Look, they're trying to help the economy, stimulate some things. I can understand that. And a lot of what's moving over there are fentanyl pills. Nice. Yeah. And that's now dragging out into Canada as well.

Mm-hmm. Oh, well, it's been like that for a while. Yeah, it's a lot of it. The Montana border, it's actually like pretty much across the entire border. Yeah. We don't think about that border that much. No. And it's a hard border to enforce.

It's a massive border and mostly unprotected. When I went and did some reporting in Montana about how drugs are being crossed by land through a reserve, actually, I interviewed a cop who also works closely with DEA to try and mitigate this problem. and he said that they will be notified of like, oh, someone suspicious is crossing through like, it's not a official border crossing, obviously. But by the time they get to where that person was, they're long gone.

It's just, I mean, it's needle in a haystack with too much of this stuff. It shouldn't be, but it is on both borders and the complicity, you know, what a mess. Well, keep reporting on it. Doing a great job. Just like seriously, I mean that. Like when it's when it gets to be really red hot for you, especially if it's something you can't do with security and stuff like that, there will be other stories. You're already doing great work. So. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Just keep your head up. Of course. And we'll do it again, as always. All right. So everyone go check out. Maybe. As if you didn't ask every time to come on. Anyway, everyone go check out. That's also and true. That is absolutely true.

That is not true. I got the text. That is literally not. But that said, I'm still going to be a good person. Everyone go check out Kat's work. You have borderland dispatches where all the documentaries are going. We got your IG down there, your X down there where you're live tweeting. Well, I shouldn't say live.

And I have my own YouTube channel now. And you got your own YouTube channel as well. We're going to see a lot of behind the scenes footage of reporting being in the field. So if you want to watch Kat apparently almost get shot, that'll probably be on that channel as well. So you can go check that out. But in all seriousness. Great having you as always. Thanks.

And he invites me every time. That's not true. You hit me up and said, I have this meeting. I should come on. You called me four times before I come here. I did not call you four times at all. I have the receipts. Okay, you're calling the journalist-al-lier.

I said I want proof of life. Yeah, fuck my credibility, right? That's all I said. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace.

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