Julian Dorey Podcast - #460 - EXCLUSIVE: My Call w/ Epstein Buddy’s “Wife” & Charlie Kirk Pod REACTION | Julian Dorey

Starting point is 00:00:01 What's up everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Julian Dory podcast. I am Julian Dory. And I'm Joey Dief. How are you doing? Joey Diff, you got the MI6 looking at your fucking LinkedIn? What's going on here? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:13 So people, if you have LinkedIn, like you get these emails like regularly and it's just like people are viewing your profile. And so I'm just like cleaning out all the junk shit because my storage is almost full. Oh no. And I press one of them and it's like somebody from MI6 viewed your profile. profile. And I'm like, oh, well, that's, that's great. Yeah. It must be all that, that royalist talk. It was just, it's just joke. I'm like, you call the queen, a queen of a, queen of a, now that I'm taking it out. They declared you an IRA terrorist at this point. Yeah, I was like, oh, shit, man. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:00:50 what are they viewing my profile for? Yeah, you just have a nice little innocent job running the production of the show and now you got all this undue attention on you. I'm sorry, Joey Deef. But when you say it like that, it makes it sound like that isn't. And you're like, oh, this little innocent job. Yeah, this is an innocent job. Don't listen to them. Very, very innocent. But on that note, we do have a lot to go through today.

Starting point is 00:01:13 I got to speak with Amanda Ungaro for an hour. And Amanda Ungaro has been covered on this show. If you don't remember, she is the mother of Palo Zamoli's child. And she was deported by ICE after being arrested. arrested for something else and then started to make some noise, obviously, down in Brazil over this whole thing with Epstein. And it quite literally led to Melania Trump coming out and giving a six-minute speech in the White House back in April, literally as a result of Amanda just tweeting out a bunch of stuff, saying stuff like, I know where the bodies are buried and all

Starting point is 00:01:53 that. So I'm going to discuss that call and I'm going to go through what Amanda told me I can talk about and just the details as I got it. It was fascinating. It was also another reminder, Joey Defe, of exactly why I do this show in person only. Yeah, Zoom. You know, Amanda was great. It's still frustrating because you're like on Zoom and you're trying to get in questions, but there's like a little delay and all that. So I spoke with her for an hour. It really needed to be four or five. But we at least got like an outline of things. So I do want to say when I get to that part if you see some spots where it jump cuts because when we do these we just record it straight for 95 minutes and there's never a jump cut but if you see a spot where it where it's a jump cut

Starting point is 00:02:41 it means that it is something I was reviewing with her to make sure she was okay with it being public because the nature of our conversation was we were just going to get on there and talk and assume it was off record at least at the beginning until said otherwise and when we closed the conversation. She and I came to an agreement about bringing a lot of this stuff on the record here. And I'm going to review that with her just to make sure all that is exactly what she wanted to be out there and things like that. But, hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. I'll get to that in a minute. We also got to talk about that fucking crazy podcast that Danny Jones did

Starting point is 00:03:25 this week that was dropping some interesting alpha with Yuval Aviv. And I'll give a full backstory there as well. And I've had a chance to talk with Danny about some of that podcast too. So we'll go through that. And then, yeah, just some very interesting biz going on with respect to our economy this week and some generational divides. And it's just time we hit this with some of the shit that's being gaslit to people. Like, I feel like you and I have been talking about this a lot behind the scenes, Steve.

Starting point is 00:03:55 It's getting nauseating. It's getting, it's getting nauseating. That's another thing on top of the thing off camera I just said before this. It's just, it's getting so nauseating. It's, it is, it's a lot. But to begin today, I do think we should at least give our little first person reaction to the two podcasts, but in particularly the second podcast that we dropped this week with Baron Coleman and Joseph Scott Morgan. So this was obviously, so episode 4.59, that is, this was four hours and

Starting point is 00:04:29 15 minutes of breaking down the entire immediate aftermath and investigation from both the literal and hypothetical, what should have been done perspective of the Charlie Kirk assassination. We essentially, after the pleasantries at the very beginning, we began that podcast with The shot is fired on, or whatever happened there, on September 10th, 2025. And I think like 90 minutes in, Dief, we were still at the point where Charlie's body was going like this, meaning like about a half a second had elapsed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We slowed down time a little bit.

Starting point is 00:05:06 Yeah, it was real like matrix-y kind of shit. But, you know, don't want to join the Matrix though. No, no, no. You don't want to be a part of the Matrix. It gets you in the shoe. Anyway. Anyway, so it was that in depth. And we eventually closed it with essentially, essentially, for all intensive purposes, when Charlie's body left the morgue. And we did a little bit of that rooftop video that had come out as well to get a reaction. But this was really, really important to me to be able to get these two guys in a room. And I want to give a huge shout out to both Barron and JSM. They killed it. It was absolutely four hours and 15 minutes of awesome back and forth,

Starting point is 00:05:56 awesome in-depth breaking down of what we've been told publicly has happened with the investigation and what was happening on the ground when Charlie was shot and also what should have happened and also things that we would want to expect when a trial, if and when a trial does come, to have seen the state have done in their investigation. And, you know, there was a lot of controversy after the first podcast I put out with Joseph because it wasn't even supposed to be on like the whole Charlie Kirk case. We were going to talk about a million cases. But then we just got stuck talking about Charlie Kirk for over three hours.

Starting point is 00:06:34 And obviously Joseph looks at hundreds of cases at a time. And so as someone, I said this a couple episodes, but as a couple episodes ago, As someone who is not an expert on the case, pointed me here, you know, I didn't put Joseph in the best position for some of that podcast to be able to accurately go through all of the things we now know or things that have been questioned publicly based on what they told us that don't appear to be true. And so it was really good to be able to get Barron here so quickly that initially wasn't going to be my plan. My plan was to have Barron in in the fall. I was going to reach out to him in like the end of August. But I was like, all right, let's do this right.

Starting point is 00:07:13 reached out to Barron, had an amazing conversation with him, got him in here. But it was awesome to get him in here as well as someone who has been, you know, like the chief litigator online of asking questions about this case and talking about it basically back since it happened for hours at a time every single week, you know, to get him in here to lay out, not just his backstory as well, which I think is important so that you can understand how he looks at these things. But then to lay out just like, here's where we're at. Here are all the questions that we still. don't have answered, things that smell, things that could be odd, things that we still have to be open to, things that maybe we don't have to be open to, et cetera, to get that on the record.

Starting point is 00:07:53 It was great to have that for episode 458. And Barron was nice enough to stay here for two days. The second day being what was filmed with episode 459 with Joseph and him where we could put the two of them together now after having had two separate podcasts and have them exchange ideas for four hours, 15 minutes. I thought it was going to be amazing. I really did. I was very confident that these two, especially once I recorded with Barron and really got to know him the day before I'm like, oh, this is going to be awesome.

Starting point is 00:08:24 Like, obviously I go way back with Joseph Scott Morgan. But it, I don't know what you thought, Tief, but it exceeded my expectations. Like these guys were down to the detail. It felt like when we were in there, Barron was an attorney, which he is by trade. deposing his expert witness. Yeah. And like almost preparing him for questions that could come his way. And it was not in the courtroom, so it was relaxed.

Starting point is 00:08:56 Yeah, no, it was, I thought it was great. Not that I didn't expect anything crazy to happen, but it was, it was very, like, calm, cool, professional, like, really good rapport between the both of them. And I feel like you got exactly what you wanted out of it. Like where people will watch it and it'll just be like, no one's claiming this, no one's claiming that. It's all just laid out for you to decide for yourself. That's the best you could hope for. That's exactly what I think too. And, you know, people are always going to nitpick certain things and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:09:29 For sure. But, you know, Barron, when he went home on Sunday, because he was here Friday, Saturday, and he wanted to be real quiet about where he was here. I couldn't even tell like people I see every day about like that was coming. Yeah, he was moving in silence with some security. But then he went home so he announced that, that, you know, what had happened and all that. And, you know, I felt like his messaging in that first live stream, if you didn't see it last Sunday night, was so spot on because what was cool is he's a guy who has really pounded the table on. they are not telling us the truth here. And I think he has a lot of evidence to point to issues there

Starting point is 00:10:14 that makes a good case for him, by the way. But, you know, it also has an environment online where the argument about it is very toxic. It is just people are so strong-willed about this. And I understand that. You know, someone died here and you're not getting the full story. It appears that way, for sure. And we've seen plenty of assassinations in the past in the United States where they clearly shoved the wool over eyes. So I get that. But what it does is it does make people very, very angry. And so what Barron was saying is that this was an awesome example of people coming together in good faith on both sides to go through this. And I don't even know if Joseph has a side, but Joseph has like, I'm breaking it down strictly by the expert evidence kind of side, which means

Starting point is 00:11:01 there could be some stuff sometimes where he's like, I don't, I don't know how that would make sense from a ballistic standpoint or whatever. And so obviously people had kind of put him on one end of the spectrum after the last podcast and people know the end of the spectrum that Barron's on on the other side. So bringing them together and them getting along so well and also like finding so much common ground was incredible. Because Barron was also saying he's like, yeah, you know, there's things about this case that Joseph and I disagree on, which I think he's right about, to be clear.

Starting point is 00:11:31 But what's crazy is in the podcast, all the details we want to do. went through. I don't know that there was ever a single disagreement. There was an exchange of possibilities for ideas. And like setting of standards and such, you know. Yes. And I think Barron deserves credit for also like, people don't hear him clearly when he says this stuff. But like, yeah, he may be pounding the table about all the problems here, but he's open to seeing evidence that would change his mind on certain things. And to his credit, they haven't given us that yet. You know, I can't lie. Like that, we ended up playing the rooftop video in both of those episodes this week, once with Barron, and then obviously once with the two of them. There's a lot of questions after you

Starting point is 00:12:15 look at that. There's a lot of questions. Why doesn't you have a limp? Where's the fucking 42-inch gun? You know, like, our eyes looked at it and like if you can convince me and show me with some sort of expert witness as to why there's still a limp there or more importantly, I say even where the gun is, okay, I'll change my mind. But like, I look at that and I go, I don't know what the fuck that is. And it's very, very reasonable for people to ask that question. And so, I just really appreciated both of those guys coming in here and doing that. And like a little of the behind the scenes, when they both got here that day, Joseph got here. I flew in Joseph on Saturday morning, So he got here from the airport and then Baron arrived shortly after the two of them, you know, they're both from Alabama.

Starting point is 00:13:09 Joseph's originally from New Orleans, but, you know, obviously he spent a lot of his life in Alabama. Two Southern good old boys in a way and they just started kind of talking on the couch and Steve, the Barrett security guy was out there too. And I just kind of walked into the studio, looked at Diff. I'm like, yo, just let this happen. Yeah, yeah. Let me look it up a little bit. You're comfortable. So they're out there for like 20, 25 minutes just talking.

Starting point is 00:13:32 And I'm like, okay, there's no tension, we're good, let's roll. And I went out there, I'm like, all right, guys, you ready? We came in, we sat down and we did the whole thing. And like, there were a couple bathroom breaks this time. My bladder wasn't as good as the first day with Baron. That's biz. That's piss. We were rolling the whole time.

Starting point is 00:13:51 And I do think Barron said this on his live stream. And he didn't tell me he was going to talk about it on his live stream that night. I didn't talk about it. I did not talk with him again after he left until, I think Monday morning. But, you know, he said he believes this is the most comprehensive breakdown of the crime scene and the elements that go into what should be and what possibly was the forensics investigation that exists on the internet.

Starting point is 00:14:22 And I don't say this to be biased. I mean, maybe I am, but I was thinking that when we were recording it. When we were about, when we were starting to really rip through the autopsy, when we took the second bathroom break, maybe a little over three hours in of runtime. I was like, I don't think there's been something done like this on this case. So I hope people get a lot out of that. We're recording this before I can see the response to it, like with people haven't had a chance to watch it on Friday, but I did release on Wednesday the early release on Patreon and members only.

Starting point is 00:14:59 A lot of people saw that. And I was really, really, the early response there, which was, you know, in the thousands from people because a lot of people were watching that was really good. So I hope good things can prevail from this. I hope that we do eventually get to some kind of truth on this case. I will admit cynically, I've said this many times before it. I kind of wonder if we ever will, but I think it's true. Yeah. Sorry. Now, Thief Sierra is the voice of reason, the MI6 man himself. But anyway, so, you know, that said, I don't want it to be because rocks weren't turned over where we could do them.

Starting point is 00:15:35 And I do appreciate the people who are at least trying. That was one thing that really did stick with me from what Barron said. He's like a lot of people, regardless of whether they love Charlie Kirk or hated Charlie Kirk, saw this. And from a human perspective, righteously so, were disgusted by what happened. And he said, then add in, you know, of those two groups, the people that actually really did love him. appreciated the things he did, they more than anyone, of course, want to know what happened here to their guy and they want justice for that. And you should be able to ask questions around that

Starting point is 00:16:14 without being shut down or said, this is an open shut case. It's that simple. And he's in no way wrong about that. And so it's nice to be able to get all perspectives, do it, kind of turn that into a hopefully some sort of a positive for the conversation to happen publicly but i will let the public now run with that as they do we don't have any control over that here and you know i really would just like to get to the point to when this trial actually happens and i hope it does fucking happen so that you know this whole thing can kind of eventually be behind us with some semblance of closure yeah because until then we are living under the Kirk effect.

Starting point is 00:17:01 The Kirk effect. What's the Kirk effect, Joey, Dave? It's like where no matter like what, like you could like be at the grocery store talking to somebody and somehow you're going to just be like, yeah, but a 30 odd six. You know, like it's just no, you can't run away from it. Yeah. Like I'm going to be at this wedding this weekend and like it's going to be like, isn't it

Starting point is 00:17:24 beautiful? Like, oh, Rhode Island's, I've been up to Newport a couple of times. What did you, so do you think the mic could do that? No, I personally don't. I personally don't, you know? Like that's just how it's going to go. Joey Deef, exploding mic. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:17:41 Don't put that on me, Ricky Bobby. You just heard it here first, folks. Don't you put that hex on me, Ricky Bobby? That listen. Next I'm going to get on LinkedIn. It's going to be like somebody from Massad viewed your profile. I know it was the best. My boy Frank comes out to me in this.

Starting point is 00:17:57 gym a couple days ago and we're just talking about like nothing uh-huh and then he just goes yeah that was massad right i'm like what he's like kirk that msaw got him right i'm like frank i don't fucking know bro you just asked me could have been a lot of things you just asked me like what what i was doing with kettlebells like what exactly he just asked me how do how did the kilograms convert to pounds oh i don't know but you you think that was massad yeah he's like definitely him saw. It's like, maybe, maybe. I don't know. That's the great society. I don't know, but that is the great society right there. But let's let's get to the Amanda Ungaro thing. Yeah. So again, I referenced this at the beginning, but if you see jump cuts, that's because there's something that, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:44 in reviewing this with Amanda, she wants to keep off record, but. Hey guys, just as a quick note, I was able to get everything I'm about to say cleared by Amanda herself and she also was nice enough to send over some of the screenshots pertaining to at least some of the things I'm talking about. So I'm going to go check that out on the edit right now. And whatever is relevant to things I said when you hear a whoosh sound, that means it went on the screen and you can see some sort of document or email right there. Like I said, I really needed three, four hours with her. I got an hour so I could get an outline.

Starting point is 00:19:19 But right off the bat, what I'll say is there were things. that she said that were the direct opposite of what she would be incentivized to say. As an example, and I'll get to the details of this in a minute, she said that she and Paolo in all the years she was with

Starting point is 00:19:40 and without him, there was like a three-year gap in there at one point, for example. It was roughly 20 years. They never talked about Epstein, ever. And like, she's incentivized to be like,

Starting point is 00:19:52 oh, he talked about him all the time. And, you know, I know, I know, everything they were doing. We know that Palo Zampoli, according to evidence, was looking to buy a modeling agency with Jeffrey Epstein as a partner. I forget which one. It's maybe it was a lead. I don't remember in like 04. Like he's in business with the guy and everything. And yet Amanda's saying, nope, didn't really talk about it. So I took like some bullet point notes of like things that can come on the record because like I said, at the end of the conversation,

Starting point is 00:20:25 I said, okay, here's what I think we could talk about. Let me know what you think of that. And she's like, yes, absolutely, go through this, this, and this. And then there were a couple things that was like, all right, let's, that would be best to not talk about that right now. But essentially, Amanda was modeling in Milan by age 13. Now, I didn't get to really dig deeper on this, but she doesn't make any claims that anything ever happened to her. I would describe her as a very tough woman. For sure.

Starting point is 00:20:58 She's definitely, I would not want to get on her bad side. I do want to throw that out there, definitely. But, you know, she was modeling at a young age. She was from Brazil. Ends up in Milan at 13. She's living in Paris at like 15, 16, right to when she's 17, modeling. And I believe it was she was working for Jean-Luc Brunel at his modeling agency. some of that was like a little unclear.

Starting point is 00:21:26 But the way she ended up in the United States is at age 17 in, I believe, 2001. She got on the Lolita Express with Jeffrey Epstein, Gillesinne, Jean-Luc Brunel, and 30 other girls. That's how she got to New York. And she claims nothing to happen to her on that flight, but she said, you know, these girls were very comfortable like as if they had been in that environment.

Starting point is 00:21:54 before and that Epstein and Maxwell and Brunel, this was like very normal for them. And there'd be girls sitting on the lap of Epstein and stuff. And she thought some of it was a little weird. But what was odd was when she went to get off the plane in the U.S. John Luke Brunel threw her a, and John Luke Brunel, by the way, is the guy who definitely unalived himself. That's what the government told me. So I'm going to choose to believe them. President's Day weekend, 2020. in his, I believe, Parisian jail cell. Yeah. You know, I'm sure there was nothing more there.

Starting point is 00:22:29 But anyway, he was Jeffrey Epstein's longtime buddy and a major modeling scout and executive in Europe, who was also alleged to have been central to the trafficking operation on that side of the map as it pertains to Epstein and his orbit, if you will. But Jean-Lug Brunel through Amanda Ungreux, Garo a plastic like circular baggy, she said, that contained a lot of drugs. She knew right away it was drugs. She threw it back and said, no, you take this shit. I like her accents.

Starting point is 00:23:09 Yeah, yeah. It's like the way she explains things is very entertaining. But she threw it back to him and she left. And she never saw Keelan Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not sure about Brunel, but Epstein and Maxwell, she never saw. saw them again. I don't know if she ever saw Epstein again, but she never saw Maxwell again until around 2014. I'll get to that point in the story when Amanda started doing some stuff with the UN, and she ran into Maxwell as it pertains to her fucking prestige worldwide, very fake organization called Terramar trying

Starting point is 00:23:43 to save the world's oceans or whatever the fuck they were doing. I'll get to that. But again, she would be incentivized in my opinion to say, oh, I was hanging out with them all the time. Palo talked about it with me all the time. them all the time. We all knew what they were doing. She's incentivized to do that because she definitely hates her ex, Palo Zambole. I understand that. And, you know, she's also sitting in Brazil right now, not in America with her son as a result of, I'll get to that part of the story, Palo getting her just pushed out of this country. And I think what amounts to forms of blackmail. Those are the claims. This is pure spec. These are alleged, Your Honor. This is just allegations from someone that I am reporting secondhand.

Starting point is 00:24:31 I don't know. Powell's Aunt Poli might be a great guy. But it's possible. Alleged. We got to cover the bases here, Joe. Yeah, that's good biz. It's how it is. So Amanda says that she met Palo in Brazil when she was 15.

Starting point is 00:24:56 okay so this would have been when she was signed to i forget which modeling maybe it was idea at that point but one of the modeling companies and right before she went to live in paris for a year or two that's interesting because palazan poli would have been by my math around 29 years old at that time meeting a 15 year old we all know how dirty the modeling business has apparently been in the past and probably still is in some ways, hopefully not nearly as bad as it clearly used to be. What I mean by that is they'd be recruiting girls

Starting point is 00:25:35 when they're 12, 13, because they're like, oh, she's a looker. Yeah, she'll be the next one. And then God knows what happens to him when that happens. So I say that because he met her when she's 15 and she's a young model. She was already a model at that point. And it hypothetically could have been a part of his job

Starting point is 00:25:54 that he was meeting her. Obviously, I think it went beyond that because he ended up with her. Again, I have to be careful how I say these things, but... Pure spec. We're all drawing certain conclusions out there, and I think you're very reasonable to draw those conclusions, by the way. But you don't want to dip the pen in company ink. That's right. It's exactly right. That's it. Are we sponsored by Red Bull now? Did I miss that? We ought to be. It gives you wings. Yeah, come on, guys. It gives you wings. I got nothing against Red Bull. But anyway, we're not sponsored. I, Red Bull, to be clear.

Starting point is 00:26:29 Send the money. So, please. We really need it. Come on. We really do. I don't know where all these guys get the money. Yeah, I don't know. Like, what was Barron was like Kirk was making 25, 30 a year? What am I doing wrong? That's the Kirk effect, though, dude. That's, well, that's before the, you know.

Starting point is 00:26:47 Yeah. Big biz. It's huge bids. Big donors. Huge biss. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I drive a Honda. I like my Honda. Listen, we tighten up this reporting on the war. And by tighten up, I mean, we just flip-flop. And we're going to have money flying through the door.

Starting point is 00:27:07 So we're going to take that $50 million bag. Exactly. And we hung out with Paulo, who's a very informative man. You don't really understand. I asked her about that, too. That's coming. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there.

Starting point is 00:27:23 But anyway, so he meets Palo Zampoli, meets Amanda, as she alleges at age 15. She then reconnects with him. I want to say the next time she reconnected him was, in fact, in New York. I can't remember if she mentioned if she ever saw him in Paris, but I'm pretty sure it was not until she was in New York after she had gotten off the Lovita Express and was here. And the way she explains it, the timeline is that. he began full-blown dating her when she was in New York. And to give the benefit of the doubt of the timeline,

Starting point is 00:28:01 I would imagine it lines up with her being 18. If that does anything for anyone out there, obviously the whole thing is weird. He was, he's born in 1970, and this would have been in 2002, so he's 32, she's 18. I think that's weird. Couldn't be me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:18 Couldn't be me, chief. But I guess that would be legal. Right. So they start dating and this is where I had to, she jumped around a bit and I, and I would bring it back and forth. So I'm going to stay with that too because what she was saying kind of then gives context to things when we go back. So just bear with me on the timeline here. But again, she says that nothing ever happened to her from, from like as a model. coming up from like an abuse perspective in that way she began dating palo eventually he never married her but eventually they had a child together and she was living with him and with him for until 2015ish and i'll get there in a second but so that's that's a lot of years yeah by the way and the way I would describe Palo. Good friend of ours, Joey Deef, apparently.

Starting point is 00:29:27 But, you know, the way I would describe Palo is very similar to Tony Soprano. So if you remember, Tony Soprano fucking cheated on his wife all the time. Amanda explains to me he cheated on her all the time. And yet when Carmela, spoiler alert, if you haven't fucking seen The Sopranos, when Carmelo went to separate from Tony and look at a divorce, he refused to let it happen. And then he even went so far as to talk with

Starting point is 00:29:59 every high power divorce attorney in the area so that then they had a conflict and couldn't talk with her. And the idea was he would get extremely angry at the idea of her so much as seeing another dude, even though they were separated. And of course, he was getting whatever box he wanted to get. But, you know, it was like, only I can have you. No one else can have you. That's how powerful. Tso treats Amanda for short. The difference is, and here's the difference, Tony Soprano, who was a textbook sociopath, to be clear. Tony Soprano actually loved Carmela. I actually do believe that. As much as a sociopath can feel love, I think he did. I don't get the sense Palazan Polly loves Amanda Ungaro or ever did. I don't know. I'd never talk with Palazan Polly. There's not a fuck ton of him out there talking a lot. over the years there's some we've played some of it but like i don't know that he's capable of that

Starting point is 00:30:58 and the pattern with him repeatedly is that no no you're mine you're you're with me i won't marry you i'll have a kid with you i won't marry you and i'll fuck everything else that moves but you're mine and you're with me and that's it and so that is a pattern that i think is very clearly demonstrated throughout their 23, 24-year Odyssey together at that point. Paolo, when he began dating her, of course, told her that he'd make her a star, all that with modeling. He loved bombed her. You know, you heard Nadine McAluso talk about that back in episode 302 with me.

Starting point is 00:31:45 She was the Wolf of Wall Street's wife and ex-wife now. But, you know, she talked about how, you know, he was a raging narcissist. assistant who would just give her a lot of gifts and give her a lot of things to make her feel like she was loved and all that. So that's similar thing happened with Amanda at the beginning. And again, she's young. Like clearly to me, Amanda had to grow up quickly, way quicker than any kid should ever have to. But that also stunts a lot of development that happens as well. And at the same time, when you're 18, 19, 20, you may be more less green at the world because you've seen a lot of shit in her case, but like you're still 18, 19, 20. And like, that stuff has a psychological effect

Starting point is 00:32:26 on, on you. But anyway, she has a child with him. As she said, she has no contact with Epstein and Maxwell during these years. And then in 2014, she begins working at the UN. And the way she describes the UN, like, I know it's a fucked up place. I know there's a lot of bullshit going on there. But this is just like a fucking, this is like a legalized black, market of like wealthy diplomats around the world to just fuck around and maybe never find out. Yeah, I mean, checks out. It does check out. So she had left the fashion industry and in June 2014, Keith Mitchell, who was the prime minister of Grenada, appointed Ungaro as United Nations ambassador for youth affairs. Now, again, when you only have an hour with someone, this is a

Starting point is 00:33:12 textbook example of like something I'd like to know more about. What the fuck does Amanda have to do with Grenada? That's number one. Two, I forgot Grenada was a country, and then I remembered, like, we, like, took it over in, like, a day in 1984. And number three, like, ambassador for youth affairs, what does that mean? What are, what does that mean? What, like, what are the qualifications here? I don't know. And I'm sure Amanda would, I'm going to guess, I should say, would probably be pretty blunt about the fact that it's all bullshit, even on her end.

Starting point is 00:33:49 maybe with some of the things she was doing. Because she went through this whole thing about how in the UN motherfuckers were just selling diplomatic passports for 250 grand. And I'm like, what does that mean? And she's like, well, it's a diplomatic passport. You can go from one place to another. And the way I took it was a bunch of these small countries that you and I have never heard of.

Starting point is 00:34:13 This is where they get their juice. And they're like, ah, we can give you a passport from our country so you can travel wherever the fuck you want. Dominica? Never heard of it. Now you have. And that was the funny part. She was telling me about, you know, Palo wanted to get involved with the UN to get closer to some people.

Starting point is 00:34:30 So he made up some shit about the oceans. And I'm like, yeah, what does he know about oceans? She's like, nothing. Not the them thing. And I was like, okay, yeah. I also was unaware Dominica was a country. And I think she laughed at that. I think I said that to her.

Starting point is 00:34:46 I was definitely thinking that. But I think I said that to her. And then I never got like what his affiliation with Dominica was. Because there was none. It's just another Caribbean island. For all I know, it could have been owned by Jeffrey Epstein. Like, can we Google that just to make sure for the 50th time that that's actually a fucking country? Who owns Dominica?

Starting point is 00:35:07 Who owns Dominica? Do I have any Dominicons out there, not like Dominican republics, but the other Dominicons? It's not owned by any person. It's not owned by a person. Full independence from Great Britain. Oh, we love that. Good for them. They fought the red coats in one 200 years later.

Starting point is 00:35:26 Good for them. November 3rd, 1978, and it operates as a sovereign democratic republic. I want to see who this person is. Head of state President Silvani Burton. Dave's going to look into that. It's a sovereign Democratic Republic. Got that sovereign Democratic Republican

Starting point is 00:35:42 Republican passport's being passed around apparently too. Yeah. Pure spec. That's Sylvan. So this is Silvani. This is their leader. She won in 2023. She was born in the village of Crayfish River as a member of the Kalinga. Klinga people and holds a bachelor's degree in rural development and a master's degree in project management. All right, good for her. Great. All right. So checks out. She's qualified. Qualified for the job. Got a degree. Anyway, so Palo has this. And another thing I didn't get to dig deeply on is, again, he's ambassador for the oceans. What was Gieland Maxwell's very fake Terramar project about?

Starting point is 00:36:32 The oceans. What's going on in the motions? What's adding down to emotions, boy? The aliens. And it, something. Something. We ain't know about 95% of that shit down there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:45 They're just like keyed in on Atlantis. That's where all this shit's. That's right. That's right. They're having a satanic ritual with a bunch of fucking... I didn't even want to give the visual there. Don't even. You know.

Starting point is 00:36:56 But we get it. They're desecrating Atlantis. Get Randall Carlson in here. He's going to lose his fucking mind on these people. These people have no fucking idea what any of their shit is, man. I know the history, not them. Anyway. So, oh, the other thing she threw in a shot, he was doing...

Starting point is 00:37:14 Powell, can we Google this? I didn't even Google this before. Yeah, I know exactly. Palisand Polly was doing something with... The tigers. She's like, all that bullshit with tigers. He just wanted to get close to Putin because he love tigers. I'm like, that's not helping the conspiracy theories here. But, all right, so entrepreneur and diplomat, Paul, Zampoli is well known for featuring live tiger cubs at his lavish birthday. That's not, I feel like that's not saving the tiger. Okay. And his lavish birthday parties as part of an eccentric effort to raise awareness for endangered wild tigers, later sparking headlines when a collection. of expensive art tigers was stolen from his New York property.

Starting point is 00:37:53 That's some cartel kingpin bullshit. That's something like when you go down to like the barrio that you're not allowed to go to down in fucking Mexico out in the foothills where some guys been living for 40 years living off of cocaine revenue, just has this open air party where maybe some people when they say the wrong thing get shot in the back and never heard from again. Where everyone's partying, there's fucking, you know, Don Diablo's there playing. Shout out Don Diablo. He's paid a lot of money to do to some short pure spec.

Starting point is 00:38:21 Obviously never happened. But, you know, maybe Flowrider is there. I don't know. I don't know. And they're just performing, getting the people going, a little sexy time on the dance floor. Yeah. And then in the middle, you have some dude in the middle of one of them cages. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:34 And he's got some really like couple hot strippers next to him. And they're blowing. The strippers are blowing like the fire through the bubble thing. And then next to them in the cage is like, tigers. Like tigers roaring. And he says, we're here to save the tiger. And then someone's like, he goes to feed the tiger.

Starting point is 00:38:51 He's like, that's the last guy you stepped that along. That's right. You know, it's like, you know, same way to Pablo Escobar was trying to save the hippos. That's definitely what he was doing. Well, there was a heist involved with this, too. Oh, no. You see this? There was...

Starting point is 00:39:06 Give it to me Joey Dief post. Yeah, I mean, yeah. The Global Tiger Fund, Zampoli commissioned artists to decorate roughly 75 ceramic and fiberglass art tigers intended to be sold to benefit wildlife conservation. In 2012, December, a brazen daylight heist occurred at his Gramercy Park area property in Manhattan. She was living there then. Thieves stole around 18 of the expensive ceramic and fiberglass tiger statues while neighbors watched. While neighbors watched. They're probably like, they're like, oh, fuck them. You know what, you guys, there's 10 more in there. They're like, oh, it could be a moving crew and it's like

Starting point is 00:39:47 clearly burglar's with like shiasty's on like no he's a fucking asshole let let them clean him out oh also there's a real height difference between these two too side note she's taller that's kind of i kind of i think that's kind of cool sometimes can you google that i mean it's a big difference yeah we're not we're not talking like two three inches here i was just thinking about he's like musilini yeah you're working with some tough juries geometry there. Look at that. Let's get that first one right there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:25 Yeah. It's, you know. That's probably why he's trying to take over the world. It's just, you know, not tall enough. I don't know. I don't know. That's what Matt Cox says. Don't shoot the messenger. My friend Matt Cox, you know, says, always look out for us short people. Yeah, he looks like a mobster. Yeah. We got a bone there. He does look like a mobster. Like he looks like he is like the union head for some construction union in New Jersey.

Starting point is 00:40:53 No show jobs everywhere. Yep. 100%. He's like, listen, you know, we're projected 12 months on the project. Fuck it. 38. That's right. They're like 38 months. He's like, yeah, fuck it. Fuck it. These guys need jobs. We're going to give him jobs. He's even got the Italian accent, too, because he's from there. So he could be like one of the imports. Yeah. Real Furio Junta. This isn't pure spec. I don't trust them. Yeah. Yeah, that's not pure spec.

Starting point is 00:41:21 I don't trust them either. But anyway, back to what Amanda was saying. So they're selling a bunch of passports for $2.50. Then she threw in something that was like, you know, this is, and I kept going. This is Zoom. I just can't. But she's like, yeah, that's why China killed that one guy for giving out a passport or something like that to him. Maybe it was like a bad passport.

Starting point is 00:41:42 I don't know. But that was like a real little TMZ moment in the middle of that. They're like, oh, I guess there's some blood guts and gore in the UN too. Chinese man gets death. No, no, no, that's not it. It's something. It was someone at the UN from some other country. And she just very casually was like, that's why the Chinese kill him.

Starting point is 00:42:03 Pierce back. Yeah. I don't know. They do that. I've heard some things, but that's, you know, that is what it is. But like I said, until she runs into U.S. Lenn at the UN, she had never seen her and spoken to her during that time period, the 13 years since the plane ride.

Starting point is 00:42:26 And she didn't have like a close relationship with Gieland at the UN. She mentioned like seeing her at some of the cocktail parties and stuff like that. And it was like a casual, yes, no you. Obviously like she knew Paolo, knew Gieland pretty well, more on that in a minute. but she didn't speak about Epstein with Palo at all. And she only spoke with Palo about Guillen when she found the, and this is some years after that, after 2014, when she found the emails between Gilen and Palo. And Palo had said publicly like when she found these emails, this was after COVID. So Palo at that point had apparently, according to Amanda, said publicly, like, oh, no, I barely knew Guiland, whatever, it's just, you know, that.

Starting point is 00:43:22 And then when Amanda, I'll get to that in a minute, I don't know, she got this, but when she got the emails, she saw that they were talking like, oh, where are you going in June or whatever, like talking as friends, a lot of back and forth, like about social life and things they were doing. So he was not being honest about that. But what happened was in 2015, she goes to separate from Palo. And she moves out and they eventually come to a separation agreement in 2018. And as a part of that agreement, according to Amanda, he was going to agree to help get her green card and visa and a bunch of that stuff to basically keep her immigration status kosher here in America. Yeah. That never happens. He doesn't get her any of that stuff. and so then COVID hits

Starting point is 00:44:14 and he's calling her begging her to come like at least move back in he said that he'll get according to her he'll give her a floor of that you know very big place in Grand Mercy Park that he has and he'll live on a different floor or whatever

Starting point is 00:44:28 eventually she gives in you know because she has a son with the guy too and moves in and she's with him she describes herself as in a relationship with him again maybe this is like 2020 So she said it got really bad in 2021 and 2022. She alleges, I want to leave that part open-ended, but she just alleges it was really bad.

Starting point is 00:44:53 And he has, I'll say, a not good personality to live with. We'll put it that way. I'll let you guys kind of fill in the blanks. And, you know, she had mentioned when, that she had been to, like some of the years get a little weird, like, when she's with him, when she's not, to be frank with you. Like, we just have that one separation agreement in 2018, but like, is it on, is it off? I'm a little unclear on all that. So I don't want to, like, give it concrete.

Starting point is 00:45:22 It was definitely from this time to that time. So let me just say between 2015 and 2023 is a very foggy time period for their relationship. But there's times when she's with him, times when she's not. And then there's agreement in the middle that he's going to help her with immigration and he does not. So she, you know, in 21, 22, he was banging other women, you know, he would have, she alleges that he would have some ladies at the night over, do with that what you will, that kind of thing. And eventually in 2023, she leaves altogether and she moves to Miami. And as far as I can tell from what she said, she takes her son with her there. I don't know what the setup was with Palo seeing her son, you know, on and off during that time period, like as his father. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:46:16 But some of the part that we're going to keep off record involves the arrest. And I believe that was May or June 2025 of her and her now husband. So she went down to Miami and she alleges she was dating someone. I won't say who it was. Palo sent a couple Russian guys to beat him up, broke a bunch of ribs, and she broke up with the guy because she's like, he's going to kill you. That's what she alleged. And so then she ends up dating this doctor, falls in love with this doctor, marries him. He has a clinic where he does a bunch of cosmetic stuff. And she explains some other things that he does. And I was a little unclear on it. So I don't want to go into that and get it wrong. But long story short, they get arrested. It's billed as fraud. We've reported on that on the show. I still don't know what to think of this whole thing.

Starting point is 00:47:20 She did say, I'm trying to think. I'm going to leave some of her claims around that off the record as well. I'm going to be safe with that because I feel like that can get into some territory of things that she doesn't want to talk about. Essentially, she was arrested. She believes, and this part she did want me to talk about, she believes that Paolo was behind it. She had seen emails of Palo email. She alleges emailing the prosecutor in this case, pushing for these charges. And by the way, that was another thing.

Starting point is 00:48:00 I don't know if this is going to be a jump cut here. Maybe it will be. Maybe it won't. I'll have Amanda look at this because I don't know if this is, I think this is on record, but I'd want to be careful with that. She went in in 2022, 2022, something like that,

Starting point is 00:48:16 and raided Palo's office. Yeah. I think we're going to be getting the cut here, folks. If you're not, well, then enjoy. What was the line? She said to me, she goes, oh, you think you're crazy? I'll show you what crazy is.

Starting point is 00:48:33 Yeah, I'll show you what crazy is. Yeah. Yeah. So she does that. that and that's where she finds a lot of these emails that are going back and forth in correspondence. And one of the things that she alleges is that Palo was trying to blackmail or strong arm the Brazilian ambassador because she had gone to the Brazilian embassy and complained about abuse and sought to get help because he also wasn't getting her a green card and everything.

Starting point is 00:49:03 And so he was trying to hold one over her. And so as a part of that, she also, I don't know if it was from that raid. or later, but she maybe it had something to do with something I won't talk about. But she alleges that she saw emails where Paolo was conferring with the prosecutor to try to bring about these charges because, again, she's now married to another doctor. No one else can have her. Only Paolo can. And so they go and throw a bunch of charges at the doctor and also at her. They throw her in jail. She describes this, I believe, is like when she was still in jail in June, 25.

Starting point is 00:49:49 And this was one part, like there's a little language barrier here, obviously. Like, Amanda speaks English well, but not perfectly, I'd say. And so there was one part where she had said earlier, like she was out on bail, but then later said, no, I was in jail when ICE came to get her. And when I clarified that with her, she says that ICE got her from jail while she was trying to make bail. I believe that's how she put it. So that's what I'm going with. This part gets a little foggy for me.

Starting point is 00:50:24 But ice gets her and then she's being held by ICE. And what she alleges is that in August of 2025, she reached out through an intermediary to Melania Trump for help. And Melania did not give her any help whatsoever. And so she was like, fuck this. And so in August, in October, she's in front of the judge. And this part, I have not seen reported anywhere. In fact, I don't think our reporting said this at all. At this point, again, she's been held by ICE, and I'm going to get back to where Palo plays a role in that.

Starting point is 00:51:02 But at this point, she asked the judge to deport her. And the reason was she feared for her life. there had been reports obviously we hadn't gotten the Epstein files released yet but there have been reports about longstanding reports about Palo and his ties to Epstein and this whole network and all that and she said I fear for my life just deport me this is what she told me. Maybe some of our sluice out there can go get court records of this. I don't even know if that exists way above my pay rate. But this is what she told me and she was then sent to Louisiana maybe like the next day and deported to Brazil. Paulo is alleged and he has been publicly alleged and there's a lot here I think that supports that to have called in a favor to someone high up at ice because Paulo has some fake prestige worldwide job it's technically not fake but you and me it's fake with the white house that makes a special envoy to some bullshit and so he uses his connection calls up this guy can we pull up that Warren letter and type in

Starting point is 00:52:07 Find Necks Zampoley And we'll get to the paragraph where I can read this out But he Leans on this ICE guy and says The mother of my kid Is running into problems and she doesn't have a green card and whatever And you should look at it and that is what caused ICE To look at her case and to take her as I understand it

Starting point is 00:52:25 Into custody in the first place So this is from a letter that Senator Elizabeth Warren also known as Pocahontas In some circles Joey Deef sent to who did she send this to this was to this was to this was to the guy himself yeah yeah to david vanarela the who is now the acting director of ice he was not at the time but he was high up at ice when she sent this letter he was acting director and in the letter she says i'm also

Starting point is 00:52:54 concerned by other reports of your behavior you allegedly called ice officials in miami for a personal or political favor to detain a brazilian woman referring to amanda before she before she was able to post bail. That woman was the ex-wife of Palo Zampoli, a longtime Trump associate and an longtime Trump associate an ally who was embroiled in a custody battle. If true, these allegations would be an inappropriate

Starting point is 00:53:20 and extraordinary abuse of power. They raised profound concerns about your professional judgment and your willingness to weaponize federal immigration enforcement to insist politically connected, to assist politically connected allies of the president. Amanda says that because Paolo did this, it was a leverage play.

Starting point is 00:53:46 And she also spoke to around, I think it was around the time that she spoke to Melania. She spoke to Paolo as well. And Palo, again, this is right in that Tony Soprano pattern I'm putting it together. What do you think Palo said to her? He said, all right, here's what you're going to do. He started helping her. and he said just blame the whole thing

Starting point is 00:54:09 on the doctor and he's going to go to prison and what happens when he goes to prison well now she don't have a husband and that was her ticket out accorded this is what Amanda alleges appellate was giving her a ticket out saying yeah we'll take care of it and you'll be fine

Starting point is 00:54:25 and she said her exact line was she said so I say no I stay in prison like no hesitation like that's what it was and you know what sticking by her man Man, I'll, that's, that's on some principles right there because I was at a high risk to herself if that allegation is true to do that.

Starting point is 00:54:45 So then it ends up with her being deported in October and that was because she was worried that Palo was trying to kill her. So I said I was going to bring this back on the timeline. After we went through all that and I got some of that cleared up again, some of it, like I said, it's still fogging to me. I went back to the Epstein, Melania, Trump alleged connection here, which is what brought Amanda Ungaro into the spotlight in April. So Amanda had started tweeting things publicly, making some claims about, I'm paraphrasing, knowing where the bodies are buried, went viral on Twitter.

Starting point is 00:55:26 She was talking directly to Melania. Then Melania comes out and gives that six-minute speech, which we covered here on this show, where she goes, to support the victims. They need to be heard in the Senate and Congress. And it's like, okay, where's this energy been for a long time? Strange.

Starting point is 00:55:46 Trump, Donald Trump, claimed that at the time that he didn't know she was even going to do that. That was kind of interesting, whether or not that's true or not. It's interesting no matter what. And it would suggest that Melania Trump, it strongly suggested to me at the time, and it, continues to suggest to me that Melania Trump was concerned about things Amanda Ungaro could say. Now, that doesn't mean she's concerned that Amanda Ungaro has proof or would come out with some proof that like Melania was introduced to Trump by Epstein.

Starting point is 00:56:21 I'm going to get to what Amanda said about that in a minute because she was, again, when she's incentivized to say some things, she doesn't. She doesn't. That's interesting. That's a checkmark in the That feels somewhat honest to me Box because you never know with these situations And I haven't had a chance to sit down with her in person

Starting point is 00:56:43 And whatever obviously she's in Brazil It's like You don't know what to believe in these circles No matter who it is but Your summer travels deserve an upgrade With select Chevrolete, Buick, GMC and Cadillac vehicles connected by OnStar You can stream, game and more on the go.

Starting point is 00:57:02 whether you're headed to a music festival or a cottage getaway. You can access hundreds of apps on Google Play right from your center display. Explore OnStar Tech today at OnStar.ca and discover how to take your summer to the next level. OnStar. Better never stops. She said, I said, when did you meet Melania Trump? And she said, on the plane. And I went, what?

Starting point is 00:57:30 It's like, and she goes, no, no, no, Trump's plane. I was like, all right, you got to say. that. He can't say the plane when you just told that you got to the United States on the Lolita Express. I almost fucking, I was like, did we get that? What the fuck?

Starting point is 00:57:45 But anyway, so it was on Trump's plane because when she was dating Palo, they would hang out with Trump, they would go on his jet. She mentioned dinners at Cypriani. Where have we covered that? Joey Thief. I think we covered some dinners in Cypriani that happened

Starting point is 00:58:01 on this show, for sure. But, you know, she very specifically said that. And so she met Melania on the plane. And I said, when you were with Melania on the plane, at this time, Amanda's around 18, 19 years old. I said, did you ask her how she met Donald? And she said, no. She goes, but I was at some sort of cocktail reception in that time period with Trump and Paolo. and Palo in a way of like, I don't know, trying to brag to her, said to Donald, he goes, Donald, tell, tell Amanda how you met Melania.

Starting point is 00:58:41 And allegedly Trump said, oh, well, it was Palo that introduced us. And Amanda said, I didn't believe that for a second. But that's what was said to her. And so that's what she reported. And that has been reported in the past that it was Palo Zam Poli who introduced. introduce Melania to Donald, which would mean, if that's true, it was not Epstein himself, which would at least remove that as a potential scandalous event. It still makes you wonder why Melania came out and suddenly said something like that when

Starting point is 00:59:11 Amanda started talking. So what other things could be there that Amanda could know? And when I kind of broached that topic with her, she didn't like give me salacious shit or like, oh, I know that this happened. Again, she was very much like, I don't know. There's another thing that she mentioned that we are going to keep off the record that, again, wasn't, didn't involve Amanda making a clear claim as it pertains to anything related to Melania and Trump with Epstein at all.

Starting point is 00:59:50 So, again, interesting. She did wonder, like, she mentioned. when Melania first came to the United States, which was shortly before Amanda did, she was very well to do and put together. And what Amanda meant by that, she's like models that came over here, they weren't, they didn't wear all the highest end stuff and, you know, allegedly live in a nice place and stuff like that. You know, it's not like they looked homeless or anything. They're models, to be clear. But like the insinuation was that Melania. She went like this.

Starting point is 01:00:32 That's what Amanda did. Yeah. Could be innocent, could not. She thought that was interesting. I want to continue the conversation with Amanda. This was like a good start. I have a lot more questions. I would imagine you guys are going to comment some questions down below,

Starting point is 01:00:52 some open-ended questions you want. Again, as I said a few minutes ago, I haven't had a chance to sit with her face-to-face and, you know. Might have to go to Brazil. Do the human lie detector thing and all that. It's there's a lot of weird shit and there were there's some stuff I kept off record in there as it pertains to Other things that I don't think are related in any way to it certainly the Epstein case but matters at hand here But you know she she's had an interesting very interesting life and has definitely seen some things that maybe could be helpful to

Starting point is 01:01:33 Investigations maybe could not but I do want to say, and Amanda's obviously going to see this before I put it out, so she's hearing me say everything I'm telling you right now. Fan of the show, by the way, Joey Deef. Fan of the show. I think she's a fan of Joey Deef. I think that's why she watches. Can you blame her?

Starting point is 01:01:49 But I couldn't blame her. But, you know, Amanda definitely has a bone to pick with Powell, and I understand that. And so you wonder where maybe some bias could comment in on that. But again, when she, She has a chance to put him dead to rights on the stuff that is the soup de jour the moment that we would all eat up. She does not. And she's incentivized too.

Starting point is 01:02:15 So just keep that in mind. But interesting conversation and I'm sure we'll cover that some more moving forward. But I mentioned at the outset my very good friend, longtime friend, one of my few friends in my industry. Actually, I don't know a ton of people in this industry yet. is Danny Jones. Danny Jones has an amazing show down in Florida. I've been on it a few times with him as well. And he's actually coming up here to be on my show again sometime soon.

Starting point is 01:02:47 So looking forward to that. But Danny loves touching the fucking boiling coffee until his finger burns a little bit. He loves getting down in the nitty gritty with things. And he does some podcasts sometimes that I'm like, I can't believe you did that one. but he's just got he's got some he's got a serious set of balls on him and so he had in this guy yuvall aviv which actually we've talked about this before but when we designed this studio the theme was new york city so on do we have camera five one cut this in uh yeah you can cut that in as well

Starting point is 01:03:22 but we have on the on the wall back here and it's funny because this wall actually faces the hudson river so it faces manhattan but we have on the wall the new york city skyline and that's the was like thematically what we were trying to do. So over here on the wall, there's these beautiful shots at the end of the movie Munich, made in 2005 by Spielberg, where Eric Banna and Jeffrey Rush's characters are standing on the Brooklyn side looking at the East River in 1970s, New York with New York on the skyline. So we have a double shot of that moment in the film. And I say this because Yuval Aviv is alleged to be Eric Banna in that movie. So a little bit of a, who, whoa, there it is.

Starting point is 01:04:13 If you've never seen the movie Munich, it is a great movie, I do have to say, and it is based on true events. I think the opening scene says this is fictionalized or something, it's not. If you look at the history, read the book Rising Gilfurs by Ronan Bergman, and you'll understand that this movie, which is about what is it? Operation Midnight Hammer, I think it was called. Can you double check that, Dief? But this film that they made in 05 is about the events of... Operation Rath of God. Operation Rath of God. I'm sorry. Midnight Hammer was the Iran War thing, right? That was definitely, yeah, that was like last summer.

Starting point is 01:04:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was one of the new ones. Operation Rath of God. Yeah, yeah. But it is about the Israel's response to the 1972... terrorist attack at the Olympics where black September members associated with the Palestinian PLO kidnapped and then killed the Israeli athletes. I want to say it was like nine athletes, nine, I think it was nine athletes that they killed at the time of the hostages.

Starting point is 01:05:23 And so those games were in Munich, Germany. And as a result, Golda Mier, who was the prime minister at the time, allegedly, authorized a Massad assassin kill squad to go find all the organizers from Black September who were responsible for this and kill them, regardless of where they were. Allegedly at the time, this is what they report. Massad had had a policy of not assassinating people in Europe and in ally countries. Not so sure if I believe that, but they did waive that, allegedly, for this mission. And so back in the 80s, a book comes out called Vengeance.

Starting point is 01:06:09 And it's written, I can't remember if he did it under a pen name at the time, but it's an author, you know, a writer who wrote it with Yuval Aviv, who may have been still under a pen name. George Jones. Right. Okay. Was that the pen name? Or was that the other writer? No, that's just, it just says it's by George Jonas. George Jones.

Starting point is 01:06:29 No, yeah. He's a real guy. So he probably wrote it alongside. item. Right. So he writes this book where he describes this mission and what what he did over a three-year period. The book ends up becoming the movie Munich. There's a lot of controversy about Yvall Aviv where he's been denied over the years. Moussa was like he was a janitor, didn't work for us, things like that. I don't think that's the case because the book gets the details of what really happened on these various hits that they did in places like Rome, Paris, Lebanon. It seems to get them

Starting point is 01:07:12 very accurately. And he wrote this back in the 80s. And so Yuval Aviv came when he was done that mission, moved to America to New York. And actually, and this is shown in the movie Munich, ran into problems where the Israelis were trying to get them back. And they were, you know, They were watching his daughter when she would leave the apartment and stuff, and he flipped out about that. And so, you know, they obviously, I don't remember what it was, but they came to some sort of understand. I do remember what it was now, but they came to, it's covered in Danny's podcast,

Starting point is 01:07:49 they came to some sort of understanding and then allegedly they stopped bothering him. And then he took a bunch of, he started a private detective company in America and started taking some serious contracts globally, but particularly for working with the United States government, which was part of the vetting process that Steven Spielberg did when he went to make the movie about whether or not Yuval Aviv was real. He was able to, I believe, get access to like government documents that show Yuval Aviv's affiliation with United States intelligence on like a contract basis and listed as Israeli intelligence in doing that. So cue the comments on this one obviously there's a lot going on there but danny jones does this explosive podcast with yvall

Starting point is 01:08:38 and and i and i called danny afterwards i said danny your second podcast with yvall was absolutely amazing it was early in the morning so it took him a minute he's like what i only do one pod what are you talking about i said no no no you did two podcasts i said the first one sucked he's like what are you talking about and said danny you covered the entire operations wrath of God in like the first 10 minutes. And then had this amazing podcast on all the other stuff. You should have spent three and a half hours on that. To get him, I don't know, catch him in a lie.

Starting point is 01:09:11 Do something. You know, but he's like, I didn't really want to talk about it. So hopefully Danny Jones gets Yuval back in there and they can really give that one a right and proper podcast on the actual wrath of God mission and all the guys they went to kill. But the rest of the podcast went through a lot of the work that Yuval's done. in his career with what's the name of that company on his Wikipedia again in in for sec or something is his private investigation into for international and you know I think it's probably a

Starting point is 01:09:46 mixed bag I think there's some places where he talks a big game and doesn't have the receipts maybe some other places where he really does have receipts and really did do things I had looked at into this guy actually like years ago because I the movie Munich I I think is a great movie. I was just always curious about that backstory. And I do, I do think he was on that team. Open to being wrong about that, but I do think he was, he was on that Mossad team for sure. And then you look at like some of the work he did. And I already mentioned some affiliated with the United States government in the years after when that mission would have been. It would suggest this is someone who knows his way around and knows how to do some things. But Danny Jones,

Starting point is 01:10:31 of course, broached the topic at hand of Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files. And Yuval was willing to talk about this to some extent. I'm trying to think because I talked with Danny off air, obviously, about this. I don't want to say some of the other stuff. But what you saw on air was Yuval addressing some of this. And I want to start with the could I guess it close? This is tier one, top tier prime, perfect, perfect fucking hosting from one Danny Jones. Let's let this play.

Starting point is 01:11:16 That evidence, you know, we got a bunch of emails and stuff and there was lots of redactions. They said they were only going to redact the victims, but they redacted way more than just the victims. They redacted like big names of like sheiks and oil executives and all. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's very interesting the people that they didn't redact or the people they did redact if you really like read between the lines and look at it. Of course. Of course.

Starting point is 01:11:39 Like that's not the real evidence. The real evidence is on the hard drives because there's survivors, there's girls that were there that testified that he had rooms as big as this room right now that were filled with servers and computers and monitors that were recording all that footage that he had. Not only on the island, but in New York, there's over a ranch. Everywhere. On a plane. The plane was where he was working.

Starting point is 01:12:00 He's adding to it. and everything. Where's all that footage? I can tell you. Really? Yeah. Can I guess? No, please don't.

Starting point is 01:12:15 Not now. Don't guess now. So, that's why I said the days. Let me ask you this. The day, the day it will come out as important. It has to be the right time, the right day. Let me ask you this. I'm sorry to put a legendary Mossad

Starting point is 01:12:37 assassin on the hot seat but if I was to guess do you think I would guess right? Probably that's why we shouldn't talk about it right now all right That's a wild clip bro That's a wild clip bro That's a wild clip

Starting point is 01:12:59 Now Devil's advocate We could be sitting here at home going that guy he's just trying to act like he knows something he doesn't but like the way and again I know some context here also off air which I'm not saying but like the way that he chained up on that and was like simultaneously friendly about it but then also Kurt like let's move on on this you know but then oh god I don't know how to talk about that one that just was wild to me I want to hear what you guys think of that down below.

Starting point is 01:13:38 Because obviously, and this is a very fair question, whenever you see any of these spooky people on podcasts, I've talked about it on my own podcast before, with guys like Pustamante have been on here, even Kiroaku and stuff like that. You always have to ask the question, why the fuck are they on a podcast? Now, Kyriaku I've always viewed as different

Starting point is 01:13:55 because he's a full-blown dissident and they threw him in prison and some people still speculate, hey, once CIA, always CIA, I genuinely don't think he is at all. John's great. It would break my heart if he was, because, like, John is fucking electric and very brave for some of the shit he says. Whereas, like, Andy, another friend of mine, I've always thought Andy Bustamonte is still with CIA.

Starting point is 01:14:18 In fact, I've said this before, I think Andy, if he took a polygraph and you asked him, and let's say he doesn't know how to cheat on a polygraph, okay? If he took a polygraph without knowing how to cheat and you asked him, do you still work for CIA, I think he would be able to say no and pass. And you say, well, why is that? Because I think it's a semantics question. There was one big tell. I don't know if I've ever said this, but there was one big tell that Andy had to me the first few times I ever had them in to record.

Starting point is 01:14:52 This is years ago in my parents' house. You know, my podcasts are extremely free-flowing. That's what we do. And when guests come on now, they know that, And even back then, like a lot of them knew that was my style because I'd discuss it on the phone. And some people, you know, they want more of a plan. And I'd just be like, don't worry about it. And they'd be a little nervous about it.

Starting point is 01:15:14 Other people, they'd just go with it. To this day, some people still want the plan. We were getting a text earlier from someone who was like, what are we going to talk about? I'm like, I don't know. You're great. We'll have fun. And it just always works out. But with Andy, he was cool with that.

Starting point is 01:15:26 He was one of the guys like, all right, dude, sounds good. But there was one topic that before episode 97, I remember in my car, when I was driving him back from the airport to go record it. And then before episode 107, when he got over to the house, there was one topic that he was obsessed with talking about that he wanted me to ask him about. And I was like, actually, I'm very interested in that. So I did. And that was the movement of the intelligence apparatus from government to the private sector.

Starting point is 01:15:55 And what he meant by that is there, especially under Trump term one, but even well before that, there was a big move to where guys would come cut their teeth in CIA be you know do all this important work be sitting at their desk at Langley on a Friday except the job with fucking I'll just insert the name of a company here lock heat on on on Friday afternoon walk out a CIA hand in their lanyard walk back in Monday morning and instead of making $89,000 at CIA they're now making $689,000 at Lockheed. They're handed the same lanyard and taken to the same desk or one right next to it, fully read in, able to do everything they do. But now they are not listed as an employee of the CIA and therefore of the United States government. They are now listed as a private

Starting point is 01:16:46 contractor hired by CIA, which by the way, when you look at every public figure from president on down in the government, all their salaries, as far as I know, I don't know if it's all the way down, but like it's in the public domain. Like you can know what people make. Is that, am I saying that correctly? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty positive on that too. All right.

Starting point is 01:17:08 So people would be complaining if they found out like the director of CIA was being paid $9 million. Right. They'd be like, our taxpayer money's paying a guy what they're paying the starting fucking small forward on the Sixers. Like maybe not, maybe not LeBron. But actually, LeBron's making less than that now with the Sixers. You see he's going to take a helicopter to work at? He is taking a helicopter to work. Have we not learned people?

Starting point is 01:17:33 Don't do that, Joey Deere. Just have we not learned? I just need one title. I need one title for my sixers before he goes. Everyone stop doing that. But yes, I don't love LeBron taking a helicopter every day. Sorry to get us off the top. But I forgot he's my small forward now.

Starting point is 01:17:46 I'm very excited about that. But anyway, you know, people would not be happy about that. But when it's reported on the sheet that like X number of hundreds of millions of dollars went to and it lists off a laundry list of stuff, private contracting, contracts for defense, contracts for whatever, you don't see that why amount of that was used for this $9 million salary for that guy that were. You see what I mean? It's like you get to hide it in the noise. And so Andy wanted to talk about this a lot. And part of the reason was because, you know, he as a good employee of the United States government or a good spokesman for them is very worried

Starting point is 01:18:27 about intelligence leaks and things like that. He doesn't like Edward Snowden and shit like that, which obviously he and I have disagree with planning in the past. He said a lot of that stuff comes out from the fact that there is such a boomerang relationship with the private sector where guys now come in and then they get information and they walk out of the office with it. So that being said, that was a little tangent right there. But when you see all these guys, whether it be a CIA guy, I'm Assad guy or whatever, I'm thinking the same thing you guys do out there and you're right to think.

Starting point is 01:19:04 And it's like, all right, what are they doing here and all that? And you have to think that with Yuval. To my knowledge, Yuval Aviv. To my knowledge, Yuval has never done a major podcast before, though. Like Danny called me when he got that one. He was like, you're not going to believe who I got. I'm like, who did you get? And he said Yuval.

Starting point is 01:19:23 And I'm like, Eric Banna from Munich? He's like, yeah. That'll be interesting. So people, you know, some people were giving Danny shit for even talking with him. But I would highly recommend you listen to it because there was some serious alpha, including another spot where I feel like if you've all actually even knows anything about this. And I am skeptical on this one. I feel like this is a little bit of coverage right here.

Starting point is 01:19:53 Can we play the dead one? Here we go. know he's dead. I'm telling you he's dead. And you know for an absolute fact that he's dead? Absolute fact he's dead. How do you think he died? Oh, he was killed. This I can tell you.

Starting point is 01:20:12 He was killed. It was arranged for somebody from the outside to go into his cell and kill him. Why wouldn't they just have that big jacked gorilla guy who was a cop killer? Not kill him. No, no, because he wouldn't do it. He's referring to the cellmate. He would do it. And they didn't, they needed it be done professionally.

Starting point is 01:20:39 You need to be done professionally. Okay, pause that real quick. The, he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it thing. I'm not, that part I'm not tracking on. Like, he just repeats it for effect and then tries to move on. I'm not tracking on that. Why?

Starting point is 01:20:56 The guy he's referring. to was a cop who like fucking dirty cop and murdered was convicted for it later murdered like four people executed them and some drug deal gone bad like the guy was a stone cold killer he didn't really have a lot to lose in there at the time like he could have done that for sure i'm i'm i'm taking it not as like he couldn't do it as in like hey guy i can't do the job for you i was taking in it as like him saying like he wouldn't be the one to do it like they need one of their like guys whoever they is and it needs to be professional and clean like that's what i take it as maybe but don't you this is where i played devil's advocate even though geoffrey epstein was the most infamous

Starting point is 01:21:39 feral prisoner maybe ever yeah yeah by the stakes at that time don't you think it's just cleaner of some psycho that he was next to just fucking kills him i think that when we say that that and have that thought, that's, we're not at a high enough level. Like, that's not how they, they think, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they know we're going to think that way, so that's not how they're going to carry it out. A little 5D chess. I mean, I hate to be the guy throwing around 5D chess, but yeah, it's, it's, it, well, it's just super high level shit. So, like, that's what we would say because we think critically and we try to look at these things, and they're like, okay, well, we need to go a step above. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's let it

Starting point is 01:22:26 play. Profession assassin to come in, do it, and get away, and that's it. And that person doesn't, is not, doesn't live in America and it's not an American animal. You know who that person is?

Starting point is 01:22:42 Maybe. You don't think it's possible that there was any way to extract him from that prison through, like, some secret door. No, no, no, no. You have a story about those tunnels of those doors, secret doors. Now, this is an old building that they kept the

Starting point is 01:23:00 notorious he he's deflecting right there because also like to be clear Andy Bustamante on his show that I went out did with him on Discovery Channel showed that there is an extra schematic on the cell that he was in that is not listed on the literal Bureau of Prisons

Starting point is 01:23:22 schematic of the of the actual layout itself that was provably there it was a full blown vent that he absolutely one of two things can happen. You could have switched out his body or you also, well, you also could have used it as cover

Starting point is 01:23:39 to be able to kill him back in the corner and you can't see it from the window, which we demonstrated on that show. And so for him to like poo, poo, oh, the tunnels. No, no, no, no, no, no tunnels. It's a literal air vent area. And then you don't have to get him out in a tunnel.

Starting point is 01:23:54 Like, the way Andy described how that mission would go, mission, off camera to me was so eerily simple like he was he was like oh no you just do this as if he was and I know

Starting point is 01:24:10 with his backstory like there are some things he's remembering just some simple ways that they got guys out of very difficult to get out of places around the world at the agency and it's like yeah I don't buy the poo pooing let's keep it going

Starting point is 01:24:26 mafia people that if there was a secret dog, believe me, they would have been whisked out of there by their own people. No, no, no, no. This is all good stories that the media is seeking and somebody is out there selling it and the rumors are out there.

Starting point is 01:24:42 No, it's too obvious. A man died. So he had to die. Let me play the devil's advocate with you real quick. If I'm Jeffrey Epstein and I'm going through, the shit I'm going through throughout the 2000s and up to 2019,

Starting point is 01:25:00 fighting all this stuff, you know, against the most powerful people in the world who obviously want me dead. I'm going to have some sort of a dead man switch, meaning I'm going to have some sort of situation set up where I have somebody who's disconnected from me on the opposite end of the country who has access to the blackmail that knows

Starting point is 01:25:23 the second you see that I'm dead, you release it. And you want to let the people know, that are threatening you that that's going to happen if they kill you. Yeah. It's a good... Why wouldn't you have that? Why? Because that's the biggest question that I have.

Starting point is 01:25:38 Stupid Epstein. Why didn't you create it? I don't buy that for that. And the answer, my answer to it is... He was so sure that he survived the first attempt of his arrest in Miami, got a slap on a hand. It's a question of days that the question of days that the powers wherever they are, including the White House and some other places, that they will

Starting point is 01:26:03 make sure that he will, they will find a way to release him and to send him out and give him a probation or whatever, or maybe even pardon him and so on. There is a rumor, and I stipulate, a rumor that he was promised that he will be pardoned by the president. By Trump. Yeah. And And if it's true, it was good enough for him because he believed that Trump should pardon him and would pardon him, that he doesn't have to do anything, just stay there quiet for another few days and in the cell. Okay. And the people who... I love rumors. It's a rumor.

Starting point is 01:26:46 I love rumors. It's pretty crazy. It is pretty crazy. I don't buy... He's way too short. of a lack of dead man switch. Yeah, he was so sure of himself. Listen, obviously he got,

Starting point is 01:27:00 Epstein got that sweetheart deal in 08 that was total bullshit where he covered it where he went to the office every day and was still doing his whole thing. But like that doesn't happen, even that doesn't happen to people like him.

Starting point is 01:27:14 Yeah. No. There's no way. No way. Because he did get careless. He got very careless in the buildup to 05 when that.

Starting point is 01:27:24 that investigation started. He got very, very, very careless with things and was doing things so out in the open that it was impossible for people with basic common sense in the area, including law enforcement, to not see it. You can't tell me that he didn't batten up the hatches a little bit after that whole, you know, fake prison stint and all that. There's no fucking way. I agree. So I don't buy that. But Yuvall Aviv was also directly connected. Let me restate that. He was at the highest level indirectly connected to Epstein and some of the work that he was contracted to do. Let's play that third clip right here. This was interesting. Explain to the audience how you originally met Gilane Maxwell.

Starting point is 01:28:17 Okay. I had an office in New York, in London. I had offices all of over the world for my business, for the Interfor business. We do too, Joey, Dave, right? For my private investigating firm. We're opening up everywhere worldwide. At one point, I had a front store, an antique store in the middle of London. That was my office, and the store was a pretext

Starting point is 01:28:43 of some stuff that we were involved in. Oh, wow. And I was like selling antiques, but I was not selling the antiques. Right. And I had real, unbelievable antiques that I got, by the way, I wish I sold them. The reason I needed the antique store is because when you have an antique store,

Starting point is 01:29:02 you have a warehouse, a big warehouse. You need a warehouse. You keep the merchandise until you bring them to the store. Right, right. And in that warehouse, we kept a lot of stuff in concealed components of the antique furniture, drawers that nobody knew existed and there was stuff in it and so on, so. So I'm sitting in my office in a showroom and I'm thinking about doing some operations.

Starting point is 01:29:31 Suddenly I look in a young, attractive, very attractive girl walks into, start looking around at the antique and I realize she's not really interested in the antique but she's just walking around pretending she's interested. Then she approached me. And she said, can I talk to you privately, please? And I said, yes. And I had the brownstone.

Starting point is 01:29:55 The store was downstairs, and my apartment was upstairs. Apartment and office was upstairs on the second floor. So I go up with her to the second floor, and she says, Mr. Aviv, I know who you are. I know about your background. I would like to hire you. And I said, who are you? She says, I'm Gilein Maxwell.

Starting point is 01:30:19 Okay, pause it right there. You know my father. So would highly recommend you go watch this whole podcast on Danny Jones' show. But essentially, I wanted to kind of lay the espionage groundwork of that one right there with what he said. That's kind of wild. But Ghiland Maxwell approached Yuval Aviv after her father, Robert Maxwell, had died. And to review for people out there who are unfamiliar with this, Robert Maxwell, was a major league media honcho around the world, but out of Britain, who was a well-known spy

Starting point is 01:31:01 for KGB, MI6, and most notably Mossad. He was a guy who worked in a lot of different places. He was buried five days after his death on the Mount of Olives in Israel, which is reserved for the highest heads of state and the highest rabbis. So do with that what you will. I think it's pretty clear, like who he mainly worked for and so his death obviously continues to be a giant mystery he he went and took his yacht out into those i think the canary islands off the coast of west africa got up in the middle of the night maybe to take a piss or something on the back of the boat and drowned and they say like he committed unaliving himself i don't believe that and he left behind covered this many tons but he left behind a 400 roughly 450 million dollar quote unquote pension scam at the day it was the

Starting point is 01:31:56 day it was the daily mirror i believe dief but just double check that and was destitute which makes no sense makes absolutely no sense that he would do that this was this was a guy with many businesses and you know part of the reason i say it makes no sense is because his sons who ran the business with him were later tried in Britain. Wealthy Sions later tried for this enormous fraud where all these people lost their money and they were found not guilty, which should tell you a lot.

Starting point is 01:32:28 You know, those are the kinds of cases that are usually slammed dunk because people want, you know, they want their weight and blood from rich people stealing from them and stuff like that. But Gulen Maxwell never believed her father unalived himself.

Starting point is 01:32:43 And I actually agree with Glein. Len Maxwell in that. And so Yovalev says that she, that he was hired to investigate who killed her father. Obviously, he wasn't quite able to, I guess, determine that to the point that someone could go to court for it. But in doing so, and this is what he describes in that clip, Gieland Maxwell specifically told him to not investigate, according to Yval Aviv, Robert Maxwell's connection to Jeffrey Epstein. which is just wild. Robert Maxwell is widely reported to have literally introduced his daughter, Kieland to Jeffrey. Robert Maxwell is a guy that was, you know, again, I told you he was around the world, but he was shaking hands with people in powerful places all over New York when he was

Starting point is 01:33:36 alive, especially in the 1980s. And, you know, this is a guy who is constantly forgotten about, but is a key center of this story. So I find it fascinating that Gielan would go to a guy who is purported to be this legendary Mossad assassin and hire him to figure out who killed her father. When she then picked up the mantle from her father in a way and continued to run, in my estimation, an intelligence-related, multi-intelligence-related blackmail operation, with Jeffrey Epstein, after her father's death, essentially doing the same kinds of things. I mean that in the broad sense of the word, that her own father did, while looking to investigate

Starting point is 01:34:30 the people who killed her father, who were probably among the people she worked for. And in hiring someone to look into this connection was someone who also worked for them at one point and continued to work on a contractual basis for people involved with American intelligence, in the American government, me, of course, referring to Yuval Aviv here. Very, very interesting connotations. Again, I think you have to take some of what Yuval Aviv says with a grain of salt. I feel like there's some things that he probably talks a big game. And you do have to wonder, just as Danny Jones wonders, like, why are you going on Danny Jones? You know, like, why is he agreeing to do that? But it's very fascinating.

Starting point is 01:35:13 the things he said, the things he alleges as it pertains to Epstein. And it just continues to show potentially how wide the reach was with this guy. Like that's what I worry about, Dief. It's like there's so much noise you can't possibly keep track of it, whether it's arms dealing, sex trafficking, fucking working with foreign diplomats, working on bio weapons, working on whatever. it may be. There's so many layers to it that you can just kind of miss the house for the trees, you know? Yeah. And then just crush some Instagram reels, order Grubhub. That's right. And just forget

Starting point is 01:35:58 it all ever happened. Just forget it all ever happened. Nothing's real. Nothing's real. Nothing ever happens. It's absolutely what you see is not what you see. But I don't know, to be continued on that. We didn't even get to the economic stuff today. We're going to do that next week. Yeah. Because that's some good shit. We're living through strange times, people. But that is why yours truly and Joey Deef are here to bring you the analysis as best we can.

Starting point is 01:36:25 So thank you, as always, for rocking with us. Please hit that subscribe button if you have not already. And hit the like button on the video. That's apparently becoming a more and more important thing on YouTube. So I appreciate everyone who's been hitting the thumbs up. And that said, give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace.

Starting point is 01:36:43 Peace. What's up, guys? Thanks so much for watching the video. If you have not subscribed, please hit that subscribe button before you leave, as well as leaving the like on the video. It's a huge help. You can join my Patreon via the link in the description,

Starting point is 01:36:53 and you can also join my clipping community via the Discord link down below. See you for the next episode.

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