Julian Dorey Podcast - #47 - Tobi "Mus" Mustafa: Online Culture & Groupthink; Gender Wars; The 2 Party System; Organized Religion & Cult Behavior

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

Tobi “Mus” Mustafa is a political/social commentator & podcaster. He currently Co-Hosts the “Faces of The Future” Podcast. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 8:54 - Deshaun Watson latest; The difference between a predator and a pervert 20:38 - The difference between social behavior and online behavior; groupthink; Gender Wars online (feminists vs. red pillers); The problem with anecdotal experiences 42:15 - What the comment sections on TikTok say about society right now; Discussing people who constantly find themselves dating people who cheat; Mus discusses his problem with shows on TV today 58:53 - Equal but opposite reaction problem across society; The differences between men and women; The “Manosphere”; Feminists & the men they accidentally create; Debating traditional gender norms 1:11:09 - Things that men lack in the 21st Century; Treating life like a video game 1:19:18 - Mus talks about growing up in an immigrant household; Explaining the Dad Bod Movement and why it’s actually a thing 1:26:59 - The downside of the media’s check to power role in society; Media propaganda across the spectrum 1:34:35 - Mus talks about working in politics a few years back; The problem with the two part system and groupthink; Trump’s impact was on our politics moving forward 1:48:20 - Democrats and the urban communities conundrum; Pan Africanism (Dr. Umar Johnson & MArcus Garvey); How Nigeria was sold to Unilever back in the late 1800s 2:00:50 - Race was originally a construct of religion; Why the Wealth Gap explains our entire political divide and the control the powers-that-be have over all of us 2:16:17 - Mus explains various misconceptions about Christianity and various interpretations of The Bible; Cult leaders who take advantage of “religious” followings 2:34:07 - Mus explains the constantly misunderstood difference between Lucifer and Satan 2:40:15 - Discussing the Lil Nas X controversial “Montero” Music video; Exposing hypocrisies in religion; People who blindly listen to religious teachings and question nothing 2:53:16 - Reading headlines and thinking you’re informed (tying this back to common religion problems as well); The importance of keeping an open mind on everything in life ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q  ~ Show Notes: https://www.trendifier.com/podcastnotes  TRENDIFIER Website: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and terms apply instacart groceries that over deliver you fucking divide them along certain lines and do the most controversial ones go to race go to something where there's also some truth to it as well and drive it deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and make the bottom 99% fight each other and hate each other so that they literally cancel each other out and quote unquote in the game of life, kill each other off in that way, air quotes, so that you keep staying right there and your wealth gap keeps going exactly in the direction you want it to. It's because people don't want to accept the fact that they're being played sometimes.

People want to have faith. People want to have faith. People want to have faith. People want to trust in the government. People want to trust in society. People want to trust the churches. People want to trust everything. And it's just like, at a certain point, you kind of have to see it for what it is.

What's cooking, everybody? I am joined in the bunker today by the one, the only, Mr. Toby Moose Mustafa. Moose is a guy who does not pull any punches, and I did know that coming in. He is one of the co-hosts of the Faces of the Future podcast, which you may or may not remember. But we had one of the other co-hosts, Miles Matthews, in here for number 42, I believe it was. And so we're also going to have Shannon, the third co-host at some point here in a month or two as well. So we'll get all three of them, but they all play off each other great. And what I like about their podcast is you really don't

know where the opinions are going to go. And so Moose came in here and did not disappoint with that reputation because, frankly, as far as touchy issues that some people would say, little bit different from the first two hours. The first two hours are just nuts. We started with Deshaun Watson for 15, 20 minutes, which I talked about with Jordan last week. And then after that, it just got crazy in a good way. But the last hour, we talked deeply about religion. And so Toby is a Christian and studies the the bible the whole nine knows his shit inside and out and he he basically laid context for like 25 minutes going deep on the bible and like the way some people interpret it and how it's how some of that's wrong like i don't want to speak for him

but it was very very interesting and then we were able to tie that all back to like our larger cultural problems you know because we both kind of view organized religion as this thing that from the top down can drive opinions in the masses that maybe we don't think about and that sometimes are very problematic. So that was also a touchy conversation, but very, very important. And I really appreciated having a guy in here who actually really knew what he was talking about with it. And that made it all the better. So I hope you guys enjoy Moose.

He's the man. He'll definitely be back. Now, a few weeks ago, I did mention that we are now sponsored here, and we are sponsored by the lovely company, 8sleep. I wanted to wait to actually start pushing on the sponsorship and discussing with you guys exactly what the benefit is going to be for you. As I said, I mentioned it once, didn't go too deep into it, but I wanted to talk about that now because I've had a few weeks to really formulate this. And the reason I was taking it a little bit extra seriously is not just because it was the first sponsorship to come in here, but this is also pretty personal for me. Because if you remember, I had Alex Horowitz in here for number 17 and number 18. He'll be back in here again at some point as well. But very close friend of mine, and he is – he's the chief of staff at 8Sleep.

So he's been there since the beginning, and I have watched this really formulate into the powerful company and amazing product that it is. So I take this very seriously, and I want to make sure that however I represent them is in the highest light because it's an unbelievable company. Now, what do they do? That's the real important thing here. Eight Sleep is a mattress company. So they have a proprietary app that ties into their product, which I'll get into the details of that, that allows your sleep to be optimized by reading for different things that happen to you in the night. So let's put that in English. Basically, if you are used to waking up after sleep and feeling like you didn't get a good

night's sleep, but you really slept seven hours and that makes no sense. If you are tossing and turning sometimes in the night, or you have some restless sleep or not really deep sleep, and you just don't feel like you're refreshed all the time, they have the science at eight sleep behind why that happens to make sure it doesn't. And in the simplest terms, they say take six hours and turn it into a real eight hour sleep. So you save two hours. But the way they do that is the app measures for things like body heat and a whole bunch of words that I don't want to drop on you because it'll get too confusing, but it will optimize the temperature and settings of your bed throughout the night as your body is changing in states of sleep. It is absolutely wild.

The product is insane, and it's also not crazy expensive at all. So, like, if you go out to buy a regular foam dumb mattress, as I like to call them, and I think the founders of the company also call it that as well, because you'll understand when you use the product. But if you go out and buy a regular foam mattress, and it's a decent one, you know, you can spend three, four, five grand on it. The Pod Pro mattress itself starts at just under $3,000. So as far as like a price competition, it's insane that they can even be lower than some of these mattresses and actually do something scientifically, technologically to help your sleep.

Now, where do I tie into this? The way I tie in is if you would like to start getting a better night's sleep, and this is something that would interest you to try out and see if like, yeah, you know, actually I won't toss and turn all night. I'll feel like I'm rested every day, and now I actually have a smart mattress and not a dumb one. You can go to the link in my description as well as the link in my Instagram bio and purchase either the Pod Pro mattress or the Pod Pro cover using code TRENDIFIRE, which is the name of this show, and get $100 off. And by the way, I'm not sure if

I said this, but the cover, which starts at around $1,750, is not the full mattress, but it does everything the full mattress does. And you say, well, why would they sell it? They sell it because you basically just put it on your bed as a regular cover over your mattress. If you enjoy the feel of your current mattress, you get to keep that mattress. And now you just get all the technology that Eight Sleep has and connect it to the app and you have it through the cover. So it's best of both worlds. It is a phenomenal product. It's pretty unbelievably funded in Silicon Valley slash, I guess we got to start saying Miami now too. So you can check that out. Very Google-able. You can see some of the people who are behind the company. But again, I've watched this grow from day one.

It's very, very important to me that this is not just a sponsorship. It's a phenomenal product. I use it. It's incredible. It'll change your life. So use code Trendifier. Go to the link in my description. And if you'd like to give it a try, give it an order. You will not be disappointed. Anyway, if you're not subscribed, please subscribe. We are on Apple Podcast that bell button, and leave a like and comment on the video if you will, please. And by the way, thank you to all the people who have been doing that. That actually really does help get some extra views on the videos, and we're growing here. It's a very, very cool thing, so I appreciate all of you who take the time to do that. The second thing is the five-star reviews in Apple Podcasts. I say it every week. They're phenomenal, and they are a huge help. New listeners have been – I see it in Apple podcasts. Say it every week. They're phenomenal and they are a huge help. New listeners have been, I see it in the numbers, they're coming in and they are listening to the

podcast and downloading on Apple a ton and Spotify, but on Apple in particularly, a lot of that is driven from they will go to these comments to see what other people are saying about the show and they go, okay, all right, I'll give this a shot. And that's a really cool thing and it's a testament to all the people who have done that. So thank you. If you have not had a chance to leave a five-star comment with a review on Apple, I would really, really appreciate it. Again, huge, huge help.

That said, you know what it is. I'm Julian Dory. And this is Trendify. Let's go. This is one of the great questions in our culture where is the new us you're giving opinions and calling them facts you feel me

everyone understands this but few seem to do it if you don't like the status quo start asking questions you and me were just talking right off cam about the sean watson and that whole situation because you have an interesting take on this and we have to say this i just talked about this with my friend jordan on a podcast but we're still getting a lot of information here it is early there are things that obviously don't look great but it gets tough when you see some of these situations and you see some things that are a little bit, shall we say, too good to be coincidental.

Yeah. Right? So on your end, the first thing I wanted to ask you about, though, was this point you were talking about. I don't remember exactly how you said it, but you were saying there's a difference between being a predator and a horned dog or something like that. Yeah. And that's how you view this situation? Yeah. I think that before I give this, I always give this disclaimer on Face of the Future,

and I just give this disclaimer all the time. This is not me saying I don't believe women. We're going to get into that discussion too, but this is just my point of view. My point of view is not trying to dismiss any situation that happened to any of those women or any women. And that's all I wanted to say. I'm not trying to gaslight you. I'm not trying to dismiss your experience. None of that.

I'm just giving this perspective as an objective point of view. and you have to say that yeah you do yeah and i think that like for me it's there's a very big difference because i think that when you look at things that happen in the sexual violence spectrum um in the domestic violence spectrum a lot of people use the term predator and i think that because of how social media is we just throw the term predator around or we use we throw the term abuser around. And it's like for me, it's like almost as bad as throwing the word narcissist around. Not everybody's a narcissist. Not everybody's an abuser.

Not everybody is a predator. And I think that when we look at the situation, we have to look at what, in my opinion, what a predator would be. And a predator for me is when you look at this, you're trying to establish some type of dominance over somebody in this particular spectrum. And you don't think he's doing that with – I mean, the allegation is just to be clear, and I'm on a broad brush right here, but it is essentially a bunch of massage therapists that are claiming that he took advantage of them sexually when they were treating him as a client. Yeah. And I don't think so because for him to do that, that would, for me, how I look at it, there would have to be an extreme level of rough play where you actually went out of your way to, you know, force a woman to do something or a woman felt extremely, extremely uncomfortable or where there's some level of extreme trauma. And I think that based on the information I was given um the responses from his lawyer just the stories of all the women

that have came out it kind of really just seems like he's not really a predator he's just he's a horned dog like he probably got word of mouth that okay um girl using a name for example it's not a real person's name chrissy gives happy endings through someone in the league next thing you know okay i'm gonna call chrissy fly her out next thing you know girl one tasha whoever girls are adding up but the reality the situation is there may be some girls that may just not want to do that you know what i'm saying and sometimes it may be a situation where you would have been like okay you thought it was okay and it wasn't or she may just been a lot more uncomfortable than she let on but she was getting paid it may have been there's a lot of there's a

lot of moving parts in this particular situation for me to just say oh he's a predator okay you know so i think a key difference to make right away to separate what we're talking about and other situations would be when you are dealing with a massage therapist where it's a – and it's an all word of mouth thing. It's not like they have ads out there going, hey, get a happy ending at this place. Obviously, that's illegal. illegal but when you're dealing with someone whose job is supposedly this thing and it's they spread business below the table by spreading around that hey we do that here there is more of an understanding that like oh certain things are okay yeah same thing as if and this would be taking it to another level but same thing as if you went to a hooker yeah it's supposed to be like it's obviously illegal but it's supposed to be okay for you guys to fuck exactly so when deshaun w is going into these places, if I'm understanding you correctly, because it's like that professional side of it, there's a level to which that if he is not literally like putting himself on top of them and telling them while they're saying no, no, no, no, no, like that he's – in that case, he's not a predator versus when there's someone who's just walking in thinking they're getting signals from a girl at the bar and

They go to the bathroom or they go to a hotel room and it's suddenly like not okay Yeah, there's there's more of a I don't know what the word is, but there's more of a You shouldn't have expected that going into it. Yeah, it's It's what you're it's what you're expecting verse. do i say this i want to say it's more so about like your entitlement to the expectation i guess i would say because it's like if you're entitled to say yeah i did this so this is what's going to happen okay we can have a conversation that maybe you might be a predator you know what i'm saying but it's like if you let's say for example he he flies out a massage therapist Sunday night from a football game. I mean, even after the fact that he has a girlfriend or fiance, whatever it is, I look at the situation and it's more like, okay, this may just been a situation where he may have done something by accident.

There were some certain situations where they explained it where there was some certain cases where it could have been looked at as an accident. So it's like for me to now just say, oh, he's a predator. He's this. i can't so when you say accident though i want to make sure i understand you too like oh we can get as graphic as we need to with this because we're also not talking about like holding someone down and fully raping them or anything so it doesn't need to like have a line but are you talking about like it's an accident in the sense that like oh you don't do a happy ending so oh i didn't know you weren't cool jerking me off yeah or you may

have just like you may have just brushed your penis on her arm or something like that by like there are certain things that could have been an accident um and there just could have been some things where she said it was okay it may not have been okay and it's like there's a lot of different moving parts to it because we don't want we don't know the person every single personality of all these women that have done everything we don't know how we don't know their background we also don't know to be honest with you we don't know deshaun watson's background with women we don't we don't and in fairness to him while i would say that there was never like a dossier online like here's deshaun watson's love life like here's what's going on you just see like a couple pictures on instagram in fairness to him

his entire body of work as a public figure i guess since like clemson he's been a pluses across the board like he's like the face of the league he's he's everything the nfl wants in a player you know and now suddenly boom yeah and that's and for me it's like, what I was talking about with my guys on our podcast was like, I would love to hear a story about a woman from Clemson. Just because, not even like, not even to justify the women, but to see Deshaun Watson's character outside of NFL standards. You know what I mean? Because when you're in college, you're young.

You make mistakes. Everybody's made mistakes. I have a bunch of stupid, crazy college stories. And so for me, if you're like, okay, you're dating a girl and you hear a story of a football player, you can make your assumption. You could have grown, but it's still a possibility. We look at Chad Wheeler.

Chad Wheeler has had chad wheeler has had a history of beating on women you know no one knew about that yeah and that's the they didn't talk about that they didn't talk about that nobody talks about that you know and they're still not talking about it now which blows my mind yeah no it's it's i mean the reality is that's because it's a black woman but i mean i didn't want to take but it the reality of the situation is because it's a black woman can you tell people what happened there just so they know basically in short um chad wheeler was an offensive lineman for the seattle seahawks and basically he came home um and he had a black woman as a wife and or girlfriend and he wanted his girlfriend to bow down to him and she didn't and he

basically pummeled her like he pummeled her and then when she woke up and that's what he said yeah i think he was like oh you're gonna bow to me bitch or something like he's yeah he's got problems and the craziest thing is what made it worse was like he she woke up and she was unconscious and he was there chilling eating whatever doing that and he was like oh i'm surprised you're alive and it's like we look at this and it's like okay so nobody's talking about this but everybody was talking about ray rice everybody was talking about greg hardy you know um the kicker from the new york giants nobody's talking nobody was talking about him well let me ask this real fat and i also don't i don't even know that i disagree with your assertion there and i never even thought

about it from the angle of like oh the, the victim was a black woman too. But I would look at it, if I were looking at it from that angle first, I'd look at it and be like, oh, Chad Wheeler's a white guy. Right? Yeah. I think it's more possibly, who knows, the fact that, like, who did you name right there? You named Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, and Deshaun Watson. What do they all have in common? They're all fucking phenomenal football players.

That is true. Top of class at their position. Defensive end, running back, and quarterback. Chad Wheeler sucked. He was not a great player at all. He didn't even start. He was on the Giants for a while. I remember his rookie year, I was at a game,

and no one knew who he was at the time, but me and my buddy at the game were literally right above him on the sideline and we're making fun of him the whole time because it just looked like the lights are on we're on and no one was home and you would never think like someone like that is like this kind of guy but yeah i mean i felt like it was my issue was up front they didn't report on it loudly or enough at all nobody said nobody was gonna say anything they said like you know espn had a quick story on it and then number two like okay if he's not as big of a player and now his career is over obviously as it should be it's gonna go away but would it go away if it was someone else i don't know my my my thing is you you bring up a good point um

the reality situation is that yeah ray Rice was a great football player. Sean Watson's a great football player. Greg Hardy's a great football player. But the reality situation is that it shouldn't be the case that because you're a great football player, you get all the attention. There should be attention on you no matter what. Agreed. Because it's like, let's look at college football players. College football players, they get all the attention.

But it's like they can still go and get a job because okay i play college football and my thing is that i don't want to be a situation where chad wheeler can just be like you know what i disappear for three four years i live with my parents and i come out and i go work and i sell cars and now i'm a-okay i could work at a car dealership and that's where that's where i look at it as like ray rice has not recovered you know what i'm saying ray rice is like the the cover boy for domestic violence in the league greg hardy i mean greg hardy's a but you know it's whatever but it's like i don't want to be a situation where it's like my biggest problem

has been and when you look at how the nfl is presented there's just been a big problem with how black black skill players are presented versus white players and for me why why i brought up the concept of um black woman which i'll touch in a second when we look at black players like let's even look at justin fields justin field back just drafted number like just got drafted why did his draft stock drop oh yeah there's no there's no reason there's really no reason well there there was a fake reason yeah there was a yeah you saw the no reason. There's really no reason. Well, there was a fake reason. Yeah, there was a reason. Yeah, you saw the fake reason in the media where they were like, oh, he doesn't love football or something.

Yeah. Which then when, and again, you don't know about any of these guys. Exactly. Some of these guys you claim could love football might fucking hate it. I don't know. Right? But based on what you are hearing from behind the scenes, everyone at Ohio State was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Because that was a legit concern, as it turned out, with Dwayne Haskins.

But just because Dwayne Haskins came before him means that now Justin Fields is going to be the same guy. And you can say like Cheeseburger at Alabama there loves football more for sure. Like, come on. And my thing with that and even adding insult to injury is like, why did it have to be Dwayne Haskins? Because there's plenty of other players that don't love football but still get drafted high. And it's like I always look at it as like – Do you think there's a lot of quarterbacks, though, that purpose –

like if they know they don't love football, they draft them high? No. I just think it's a situation where it's like if they like you and they think that you have talent or, you know, I'll be honest here. Like if you're a white quarterback, they're going to pick you. Like there's no reason why Justin Fields dropped that low. And I look at it like there's been plenty of examples. We look at Cam Newton.

People chastise Cam Newton as if it's the reason why his career went the way that it went. It's his fault. It's not his fault. Yeah, he got injured. Those are certain things you can't really change. But the last couple went. It's his fault. It's not his fault. Yeah, he got injured. Those are certain things you can't really change. But the last couple of years of him in Carolina, it's not his fault. But we look at him as, oh, he doesn't want to play football. He's not this.

He's not the same. He's not this. And it's like, why are you saying that for him? But you guys are looking at Josh Allen as this phenomenal athletic quarterback, as if Kim knew he was not 6'5", 2 or something. Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson's the fastest quarterback probably the league has ever seen. Oh.

Ooh, Michael Vick. Michael Vick. I think. I'm going to check you on that. I think. I love Lamar. Love Lamar. He's nothing like Vick.

I'm not saying he's better. I'm saying fast. You've seen Michael Vick. I've seen Michael Vick run the ball, but I'm saying, like, like do you see i'll say this lamar jackson is a lot more he's a lot more elusive than my i'll say that all right i don't want to get sidebar we're gonna come back to that we're gonna come back to that but go ahead this is this was a bigger point my point is my point is is that lamar jackson when he first came when he when he was eligible for the draft it came to a situation oh you should play receiver yep you should play receiver he had a good arm too he had a great he always had a good arm in college it wasn't it wasn't like oh he just runs in

college he had a great arm yeah and the reality situation is like even now it's like oh every little thing lamar jackson oh he's not good oh he can't he can't pass he can't do and it's like is it really his fault it's like we look at baker mayfield and i love baker baker this is exactly what jordan said something similar no like on like a different topic yeah it's like think about it baker has probably the best like let me not say the best offense but he has one of the most talented rosters in the league hundred 100 and my thing is that granted taking coaches out the situation just ball you know like just ball and you couldn't do that like i love baker don't get me wrong but i'm just saying like you had arguably one of the most talented rosters

and you did not ball out the way that you should and my thing with that comes in as why is it that someone like baker can get he can get a pass um Daniel Jones can get a pass but Lamar Jackson he has a bad playoff game that's not even really his fault now it's oh Lamar Jackson can't pass or Lamar Jackson oh he can't he can't win um Justin Fields oh he doesn't love football apparently and it's like we have all these excuses for people that for black quarterbacks that it's just ridiculous like cam newton is the oh he doesn't want to play anymore but it's like where did y'all get this narrative from you know what i mean i know exactly what you mean it's ridiculous it's almost like you can't exactly

define it and say like oh that thing right there this is how they say this but inherently you do kind of know because you like when you see these guys who last a very long time who were great right because we can agree cam newton won an mvp in this league and was a phenomenal quarterback and he's still probably still probably still could be he is very banged up though i will say that yeah now he's like that that man ran into every single defensive player for like nine years and didn't complain. That's got to take a toll. But either way, like you see some of these guys and they don't have the, I guess, like accepted staying power of, I mean, Tom Brady's a bad example. But let's look at the other guys, right?

Like Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre back in the day, right? So I agree that there is something there and that there tends to be this stereotyping that happens that for whatever reason we can't get rid of. And I think that even sometimes people will – and I'm talking about scouts around the league and stuff. They'll draw back to like – who's someone from back in the day? Like a Jamarcus Russell who happened like fucking 15 years ago. Who also like dead ass. They knew he didn't love football. They drafted him because he was one of the most talented quarterbacks I've ever seen. Right?

You know? And that one just didn't work out that way. But like why is one guy becoming the example and the rule for everyone? You know what I mean? I'm very uncomfortable with that and it's hard for me to wrap my head on exactly like if they realize that's happening or if they're just like totally drunk at the wheel here and just kind of are content to continue whatever system it is where it's like well no these guys are the safe guys to put up front versus the other

guys and not to bring it full circle in the wrong way here but it's another thing that that sucks about the sean watson too because he is a black quarterback who covered every single possible thing you want to cover in being a face of the league and that's that's the biggest problem with that's why i said you know we were speaking off like off mic it's like regardless if the sean watson did it or he didn't do it the reality of the situation is that for me how i look at it as the texans have to sell the team um yeah explain this um to be honest with you taking out what taking out whatever happened the fact of the matter is that there was a there was a huge number of women that

came that had to have come and discuss something or you found out information from a large amount of women about what was going on with deshaun watson yep and the reality of the situation for that is you knew because there's no way that you requested there's no way that he requests to trade after you guys just paid him he goes radio silent and the next thing you know your next door neighbor who's a lawyer is now the he's now he's now the representative for about 20 something women and that's tony busby yeah tony busby whatever his name is he's the representative for all those 20 women and and nobody seems to like question that yeah jordan brought that up and you know when you put on your tinfoil hat with it that is one thing that is smelled from the beginning about this now there

are like allegedly these text messages and stuff which we really haven't seen many i think he's only released one but or a couple i'll hedge like it's it hasn't been many is the point and we've heard from two women publicly but there's like 25 or 24 or something like that. We haven't heard from the others. But I look at this and what I never want to do is be like, oh, we're going to get in a situation where our default is don't believe women right and i also never want to get into a situation where we automatically just believe everything we hear it is a very shitty place to be because also like as a guy i come out and and let's say on a situation where i see enough information or to satisfy me to make a judgment and i say you know i really don't believe them socially that looks really bad for me but we

know that statistically it happens does it really does it does it really look bad for you socially does it look bad for you online oh that's a great question are they different uh yeah how so um poop that in just a bit um it's different it's different for a lot of reasons um we have to understand that in real life we actually have to look at situations we actually have to go and assess situations um the internet the biggest problem with the internet is group think um love that the reality situation is that when we look at oh gosh we're gonna go down oh we're going down this road what's happening oh don't run we're going uh uh let me take a let me take a sip of water real quick we got a little quick intermission before we get ready for the sweaty

stuff right here if we're going down this road i know i can already hear my miles and shannon well miles said this was going to happen. He's like, oh, you're getting moosed in here. You don't know where it's going, man. I love that. So let's go. Okay. So you go on the internet.

The first thing that you see, and I was explaining this, but you go on the internet. If you have 100K followers, if you have at least 10K followers you're automatic everything that you say is automatically word is bond like word is automatically bond you can be if you have 10k followers men are trash you get 20,000 retweets 20,000 retweets 30,000 retweets that was not going where i thought it was oh no okay keep going so you come in and it's like are men really trash but why are men trash okay men are this this this and this but it's like okay how accurate is that you know it's like oh men don't do this men don't do that but it's like okay so who's raising these men and it's like you're going into this but women a lot of people on the internet don't think that

way what do you mean okay go back for one second okay when you say like who's raising these men who's raising the men what was the point the point is is that oh okay okay i got you now yeah and it's like you you go on the internet and people just run with the narrative men are trash men are abusive men don't do this men are disgusting men are pigs men are this men are that men are this and it's like when you run into this group thing it's the same thing on the other side of the spectrum you have the women are trash all women want is money all women will manipulate you all women will do this all women will do that you know and so going into this narrative it's like when we look at say deshaun watson for example it's like okay if 40 women were to come

out and they were all on the internet and said oh yeah deshaun watson did this before even the texans and news outlets got this what do you think what happens to deshaun watson if they all had like you know 20 30k followers they would believe it yeah he's done yeah they would believe it someone on espn would probably pick it up somebody on fox news probably pick it up and then up. And it just runs from there with no backing, no facts, anything like that. And so the problem is when we go on the internet, people can say one thing. Or if a collective group of people say enough things, it becomes the norm. And so the biggest problem with that is just's just really that group think is is really dangerous because it implies that one it gives it doesn't give room for opposing opinions um it doesn't give any room

for you to actually do research because you know everybody on twitter has a phd at some random ass school and they have their everybody seems to miraculously have their phd in some type of egalitarian study or there's a term for that it's called the blue check mafia yeah blue check mafia I like that I like that blue check I like yes yes I hear you and it's like that's the biggest problem because it's like when you actually really meet with somebody who reads books or you know discusses things it becomes a problem um and yeah that that's that's groupthink in a nutshell just but you started that with the social versus the internet so what you're saying is that group think that occurs on the internet is very separate from the real world and are you implying that it doesn't necessarily happen in the real world

no it happens in the real world i was gonna say there's certain there's certain cases i mean i'll pick one because you know i love it like uh religion for example in religion there it's unsaid but it's there you know oh yeah and it's like when you, for example, in religion, it's unsaid, but it's there, you know? Oh, yeah. And it's like, when you have that group think in a particular environment, it makes other people uncomfortable. And opposing views are not. And when you have an opposing view, it makes people really, really, really uncomfortable. And I think that in real life, for the most part, if you're working 40 hours a week, nobody really gives a shit. People really look at things

objectively because that's what we do for work um that's what i do for work my job is a very objective job so it's like i'm not gonna sit here and just be like oh my gosh x y and z happened i'm just gonna believe it um and i think that that's what people really need to understand that it's like we all can't be subjective just because of our experiences or our anecdotal experiences like just because you can project your your trauma onto the internet doesn't mean you can project it onto people in real life it doesn't life doesn't work like that you know well i think it also creates the for everything and you know we started this talking about women and and you know what the term for some of the stuff you're talking about is virtue

signaling right like people if they're above 10k followers as you said they're going to put out the men are trash tweet and suddenly boom 20,000 retweets to grow another 5,000 followers it's like it's incentivized right because if you say something that shakes the boat oh maybe you'll lose some followers in the algorithm this voracious algorithm that we all feed is my friend ashton larold says it will punish you for that. But looking at it a little bit more objectively on the outside, I think that a lot of the people who say things online to virtue signal do bring that into the real world too. And so we have an enormous lack of conversation on it. Now, if you're on an app like Clubhouse or something like that and people are going into rooms where it's on the internet still, that is online, right?

It's just because you're talking. It is online. People – moderators can kick people out. People can leave the room whenever they want. There is an enormous space for people to be on guard and say, oh, everything I say is going to the internet right now whereas in private they might be different i could agree with you there i just think that a lot of these phds you talk about in their bios on twitter they drag a lot of that thought process i mean in that case like into the college classrooms too oh yeah definitely um to talk real quick uh i mean i guess you're right with clubhouse i just think that with

clubhouse clubhouse is basically twitter is basically twitter with boundaries but it's like if you're in a room and you want to have a contradictory opinion people are just going to kick you out 100 and it's like i have a problem yeah i've been in those rooms i've you've been kicked out of some rooms have i been kicked out of a room before uh i gotta yes you've been kicked out actually yes that's a compliment by the way thank you i think but i didn't even say anything actually um it was so i'm greek right i joined fraternity in college and everybody was giving out stories oh my gosh i wanted to join x organization and we're gonna come and talk about them because they're not good for the black community they're not this they're not this they're not that and i'm like so you guys came on here willingly came on here to talk about

organizations that didn't choose you for whatever reason that they saw fit to say oh yeah you guys are not great for the community after most of the people and most of the black leaders and thought leaders that have pushed this society forward are a part of black greek letter organizations and it's like for me it goes back to my thing of like it's twitter with boundaries or it's it's twitter for it how do i say this it's like it's a crazy house for twitter people i'll just put it like that because it's like if you don't think the same as like oh well you don't you can't be in here like going back to that room it's like i'm greek and i was going to go and talk about it they found they literally searched all my social media and found out i was greek and kicked me out i was just like okay this

is how it happened yeah and i was like okay you guys are childish like i don't it that yeah that's that's the concern i agree with you yeah i i and that what do you say twitter with boundaries twitter with boundaries crazy house for twitter people like i don't know it's just it it it's irritating because you don't want to be like and this is that if you i'm sorry if you just pull up a little bit yeah yeah because you're talking about it okay so my thing is that what irritates me the biggest what irritates me the most about just this in general is just people go on to twitter they take in information and like you said they run with this information outside and this creates biggest problems like we have this whole egalitarianist or gender war problem going on on the internet men are trash women are trash and

it's like everybody's just became the opposite version of themselves you have the twitter feminists who have who who believed in commoditized sex you have to read believe in what commodity commodity sex i guess because sex has become a commodity i guess okay okay sex become a commodity for for for feminists only fans is cool all these different things are cool you have the red pill guys who are like oh hey um i don't i don't i don't think you should talk to women all women are evil all women will cheat on you all women will manipulate you they will leave you do all this and it's like you guys sound exactly the same like and the reality of the situation is you've taken in so much negative content that you take this out to the real world and you apply this to real life situations. And most of the time, it's not even really, it's not even really shit that goes on in real life.

So you're, I just understood that. I think you're saying like, it's not necessarily like they're saying the same things. They're saying different things, but they sound the same because their attitude about shit completely off one end of the spectrum and insane yeah they're both they're both talking yes and no like yeah they're both they both sound insane but they both equally have a common agenda which is basically to blame the other person instead of looking into yourself it's like hey men are trash okay so all all 3.5 billion men on the earth are trash yeah see and it's a generalization yeah generalizations are one of the biggest problems we have and i sometimes i will say something and i'll be like that's a generalization i like checking that because i want people to be

clear when i'm not just i'm not trying to paint with the broadish brush on everything sometimes it makes just a conversation easier to say hey these types of people are more likely to think this thing fine but say that because it's not all of them it's not and and we create this this i mean there's like a war between the genders in that way where we have to like check like for example here we gotta hedge or not hedge we have to qualify things we say before we say them when all we're trying to do is have a conversation to get to the root of a cause of an issue, right? It's not like we're coming up here like, yo, how can we fuck up some women in this podcast and really make everyone think that they all suck? Like man needs woman, woman needs man and everything in between.

I don't know why people can't just accept the fact that there are like some differences here like just in in what people like or what women like versus what men like and the fact that by the way with men and women guess what it's guarantee in life they're going to be good ones and they're going to be bad ones it's how the world works and that's just what it is and i think it's just the biggest problem is that people have internalized having people have internalized the people that have opposing opinions and internalized the bad people that may not have projected their trauma the best it's like if a girl has been cheated on multiple times using this for example and every single guy she talks to men are trash men or this men or that her anecdotal experience is proper right yep you're justified

in saying that but that's not the reality of every single guy and when you look at situations like that some guys internalize that well okay you call me trash you call me this you call me that but it's like you're not really trash or there may just be things that you need to work on and it's like a lot of people take that into consideration it's like for example some girl called me a bullet bag on twitter i'm a black guy and you call me a bullet bag on twitter like like think about that you know what i mean and it's like i'm looking at you and it's called you a bullet bag yeah i don't even know what that is a bullet bag like you know like you should like a bag you shoot into yeah what was the context there no context because i'm black oh my god it's because i'm a black guy and it was a black christ it was a black woman that said that too

and it's like i'm not trying to make it a black man black woman thing but it's like when you see how people talk to you and it's like at first i could have cussed her out but i'm like i'm cussing somebody out on twitter while i'm at work yeah and it's like what is the point of me doing that yep and it's like this is obviously somebody who has trauma right and it's like when they have trauma people what happens with people is that people like to crowd around people who justify or reinforce their trauma and it's like when that happens now you have the statistics that everybody loves to throw everybody loves to run statistics the statistics that prove their point and it's like you have the statistics you have the backing

with other people so it's like now it's like hey we're the twitter feminists we hate men right so now you have a bunch of guys who are like you have like the kevin samuels were's like hey we're the twitter feminists we hate men right so now you have a bunch of guys who are like you have like the kevin samuels we're like hey no we're not doing that like y'all women need to check yourselves y'all women need to do this y'all need to do that don't need to do this if y'all want men we hate you guys and it's like y'all just have this big ass war and nobody's gonna win and the reality is that we all need families like the reality for me has just always been you wouldn't be here without your mother and father i wouldn't be here without my mother and father we wouldn't be without a man or

a woman and my thing is that we're so busy trying to find the flaws in one another that we can't find common ground and go and heal and go and sit here go to therapy learn to how to take opposing opinions and really just learn about each other like nobody wants to learn to learn. Everybody thinks they know everything because of Twitter, and Twitter doesn't teach shit. I think it has gotten worse, and this is saying a lot, too, because it was bad. I think it has gotten noticeably worse during the COVID pandemic because everyone's got a lot of time.

Of course. They got a lot of time to sit at home behind their keyboards and type in uppercase when their voice in real life isn't even speaking in lowercase. And I empathize with some of it because, you know, I'll see these comments on some videos I post, right? So if I put up a video on TikTok and it's on a tough issue, I will get people who call me a hero, which, you know, I don't need like, okay, you agree with me there. Great. Appreciate it. Let's move on. And then I'll get a lot of people who will i don't need like okay you agree with me there great appreciate it let's move on and then i'll get a lot of people who'll be like yo fuck you and they'll come at

me hard and to their surprise the only the only type of comment that i will come back on aggressively is when someone tries to say like we're reading a script in here or something yeah i will aggressively defend the actual brand of the podcast that i will do but if it's about the content itself i don't come back angry at all i'll be like look i know it's a hard situation like this is what i thought state your case would love to hear it and so 90 of the people never come back because they just wanted to get it out there and get their get their feeling off but probably about 10 percent of people do and they're disarmed because they're like oh like we were expecting you to fuck off it's like they wanted the rise out of you and so what i empathize with is that people in this country and around the world but let's just talk about

this country for a second they're very very pissed off about a lot of things right now and they have a lot of a right to be and a lot of reasons to be and there's a lot of places where it's like is there is there even hope you know is there an american dream anymore and some people are looking at that they're seeing this wealth gap that just continued for 30 years and it's affected everyone that what we're doing is we're taking it out on each other to fight each other and what i realize is that these people that's an insecurity and they are taking out their insecurity and not just on me i'm like a lot of people right and i'm one of the people they comment on so I'm like okay they're not doing that because they really hate me or they want to hate me maybe they do right now but they

don't want to dating the idea yes and they want to get out their opinion to feel like they've been seen and so all I do and it's amazing how it actually works sometimes as I say all right you're seen state it actually works sometimes, is I say, all right, you're seen. State it. I'm good. Like, we don't have to agree, man. I'm cool with that. You know?

This is hard. Like, if we're talking about COVID or something like that, these are hard issues. Yeah. These are hard issues. A lot of nuance. And you talked about subjectivity earlier and, like, anecdotal experience. Yeah. I expect that from people, and I also understand it, and I accept it.

And that's the biggest thing. It's like, I don that from people and I also understand it and I accept it and that's the biggest thing It's like I don't have a problem. I've never had a problem with people stating their experiences like if For me right like we talk about racism when I talk to a white person. I never experienced this before It's like okay I understand that but it's like you can't You can't come to me and tell me that not all police are bad when I've When I've been pulled over and a cop puts his like puts his hand on his gun and tells me yo you need to get out your car like and that's a legitimate i was going to work and the cop put his hand on his on his gun he's like

yo like you need to move your car now and i'm like how the like excuse me but how the fuck am i supposed to move my car oh you say whatever you want here okay cool i was like how the fuck am i supposed to sit here and move my car my car battery's dead and i have no i have no way to get back you know what i'm saying and it's like and people can't disqualify that at all yeah you can't disqualify that and it's like when you look at those different types of situations i i i'm okay with that but what i can't do is that outside of certain situations it it's like, okay, going back to cheating, for example. If somebody cheats on you, if one person cheats on you, cool. Maybe it's a situation where the person may not have been okay with themselves.

Certain things have happened. You have five people cheat on you. Every single relationship you've been in, you dated five people. Everybody's cheated on you. Okay, so now you need to start looking at certain things. Like, yeah, they may have problems, but what are you doing? Man or woman, what are you doing man or woman what are you doing you know what i'm saying and like i don't want to use it as like a race thing either because

sometimes when you have collective opinions it's like if all three points look if 3.3 billion men on the earth cheat and women like all men are cheaters like you know what you might be right you might be right but it's like yeah if a small percentage of people cheat you know what i'm saying or a small percentage of people are doing something, you can't now use those small percentages from like the 5,000 anecdotal experiences you saw on Twitter and use that as law. Can I push back on something here? Because I also agree with your point, but I want to give it the full context so that we can explain it. This is something I do think about a lot. And, you know, anyone who's been cheated on

it sucks like it's it blows and it's it's the worst thing and you get mad at the world you can even turn it in on yourself and be like oh it's my fault and what you're not saying there is that like oh yeah it's your fault that they did that what you are saying is that for the people that maybe have that happen a bunch of times, they got to ask themselves, and correct me if I'm wrong here, they got to ask themselves, well, what kind of people am I associating with here? Like, what can I do to avoid this before ever getting into the situation? Because there's no excuse when it happens. Like, it's their fault when it happens, but why was I with them in the first place? Why do I keep on ending up with these people?

And dude, I think about this a lot because I've seen these patterns with friends of mine i've seen i've seen this pattern with with men and women where they they attract somebody who they just they have a type right and so yeah when you get cheated on five six times to use your example and i've seen some of those cases you tend to have a lot of insecurities about about the other people of that gender it it just is a fact and what happens is those people then and you also said this they get validated online they get their trauma validated like oh you know that yeah all men are trash in that case like if it's a girl complaining about it and you know that that sucks and and yeah you know you go whatever and then they never even stop to think and consider the things that you want them to also consider

yeah and i think that like i mean since we down here before we go to another to a to another deep subject because i have something else connected to this but bring it i my thing is that i guess we're cheating i think that people make such a big problem about it because people are always like yo why would you be with somebody if they're going gonna cheat on you or why would you just why would you just do this why would you just want to do that and it's like a lot of times like i'm just no i'm just thinking about my ex i didn't want this to be like a dating thing but it is what it is but like it's like it's like statistics women use statistics about a lot of different things but people don't actually look at the statistics of the early adolescence and early 20s cheating statistics of men and women

most people don't understand that women cheat more than men at an earlier age and then it outpaces itself as people get older but people will so then it flips yeah it flips people don't people don't look at those statistics people ignore those statistics and it's like going to cheating it's like my biggest thing is that you can work past cheating and i think what the biggest problem is you have to be willing to look into yourself and it's like what do you mean work past cheating like if you if your partner if your partner cheats on you and you're with that person or whatever and something you know you want to stay with that person, you can work past it and have a new relationship. Most times when cheating happens or when a lot of traumatic experiences happen or certain things happen, a lot of these things happen because you're missing something.

A guy cheats because he's missing something. A girl cheats because she's missing something. And the reality is it's a lack of communication. And that's the biggest thing, I, I guess that we've been talking about. It's just a lack of communication and a lack of self-reflection, a lack of self-accountability. Because if we don't, if we're not self-accountable for ourselves, we're never going to be the best version of ourselves. If we don't continue to start talking to one another and actually have open points of view, we wouldn't be able to self-reflect, nor would we be able to communicate properly. And if we don't't communicate property none of the other shit happens anyways you know what i mean so it's like

that's why i say like when i look at people we talk about cheating or we talk about these egalitarianist like um gender war stuff that we talk all the time it's like dude just talk to somebody it's like even to an extent with racism like yeah racism is a terrible thing but part of the reason why people think this way is because we've been conditioned this way like we've been conditioned to think that to an extent women women are superior or they've been projected to be superior than men and women are kicking men's asses and everything it's all it's been conditioned in media it's the same thing with racism it's the same thing with a lot of different How's it can you explain with the racism like draw a parallel between what you just said with women? um, so when we look at so when we look at

So when we look at let's say let's go to TV Okay, um as a black man, there's been a lack of representation on TV for black men. Sure. There's there's no There's no more uncle Phil. There's no more Uncle Phil. There's no more Carl Winslow's. There's none of those black fathers that we saw on TV. Dad from Smart Guy. Things of that nature. We don't see those. I also feel like, and maybe this is a sidebar,

but I also feel like there's a lot of shows that they market to specifically point out this is for black people right so and i'm not calling out bet there right yeah i'm calling out what was the one show it was called like blackish or something like that like shows like like like where they don't make it hey you know we have an uncle phil or somebody to look up to and it's just like oh that's uncle phil he's a human being and he happens to be black it's more like yo we we got a black guy here yeah and here's

the end it's because it's a black guy. You're going to watch the show. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like. Yeah. I think that like certain shows. I mean, that shows a really good show. It got weird after a while.

I started doing spin off. Anyways, but it was a good show because, you know, it was a black father who was present. It was a comedy show. So I didn't have a problem with it. But when my problem comes with it and just like a lot of other shows taking race out of it. It's like there's a lot of shows. I don't really show how men should be in a house or how like most of the men that you look at on tv nowadays are really the comic relief like and when you look at tv like you always see the woman is the more serious one and the man is always the goofy one

you wow people don't really look at it like that it's like think of almost every show recently it's like the guys the the father's the goofy one the mother's the more the strict one you're talking especially sitcoms yeah like look all the sitcoms that's just how it is and it's like when you look at that it it affects guys for example and it affects how guys look it's oh yeah you just be the comic relief you know or, the woman, the woman is in charge, happy wife, happy life. And it creates that stigma of, okay, women have to be happy in a household

or she's going to be like this. And men, you don't really have to do anything except for work or your feelings don't really matter. And for me, it's like taking that to a direct correlation to how racism is pushed. It's like, when we look at how we look at um damn why did why my mind just go blank when we look at certain things of how like black people are marketed um like when we look at tv shows look at netflix netflix doesn't in most cases netflix doesn't really have a pilot tv

show where they have dark-skinned black women most of the shows that we see on tv all of the most of the black women are light-skinned. And they have this very, very big stigma. I said on our podcast, we should cancel Tyler Perry. Because he's projected the stigma of how black people are in society. You have a dark-skinned black man who's the aggressor.

He's the wrong one. The light-skinned man comes in and saves the woman. This, that, and the third damns on the stress. Do you think he tried to do that? yes you do yes almost every if you a majority of his movies tv shows all have that woman is damsel in distress woman is a serious one um light-skinned light-skinned light-skinned fair-skinned father is the good one the dark-skinned guy is either irresponsible or you know he's the aggressor in the movie a majority of his early works are like that and it's like when you had when you had diarrhea of a man black woman was

like that yeah and it's like when you look at that it creates this thing where it's like when people grow up and they see that it's like that's what they assume things are you know like growing up as a guy it's like okay there's no more carl winslow's or it's like okay well my wife i want my wife to be mad so i just have to sit here and just continue to just make her happy and fuck my feelings and in the reality it's like going back to our cheating examples like that's how cheating happens like you're so focused on somebody else your needs are not met and then that happens and you you're saying that because this is the example we're shown in pop culture yeah that that is then what you know when we're growing up and you know even when we're young informative that's the image that we just

subconsciously creative like you said like oh we got to be the comic relief or something like that and then other things they're left blank yeah do you do you like i'm not saying this be rude but like do you understand why steve urkel is notorious? No, Steve Urkel was probably like the only black nerd that you can think of in the 90s Like right off the top of your head when you think of when you think of black nerds you think of Steve Urkel That's the only one and I don't have another one for you and that that's the reality situation It's like the nerd like when you look at the image of how certain things are projected most that like you you have a certain image when we think of football we think of tom brady because of everything that he's done

and everything is accomplished when you think of like say boxing muhammad ali you know what i'm saying it's like you have these certain images of people and so my thing is that when you've pushed this image especially for us 90s kids where there's certain things that we've seen growing up, it's like we have this certain mindset. You know what I'm saying? And that's why it's like for me, it's super – for me, it's always been super important that, like, we get fair representation, not just from a race standpoint, from just from a – like, from a man and woman standpoint. Because in order for us to have a healthier society, we're going to need men. We have to. Men have to find a way.

Let me not say find a way. Men have to start getting into the process of being able to express themselves, whether or not people like it or not. Because part of the reason – actually, we're going to another step. This is good. Keep going. This is a great So you just unlock something that men have to be able to find ways to express themselves We move in we've been moving into a society now where it's like we're at the point now where we're blaming We're blaming the lack of sex

That men get as the reason why there's a lot of shootouts or there's been a lot of like, um There's been a lot of violence in men and for us to sit here now say it's because of sex it's a problem like we can't just like and this is this is why i say we need broad brush yeah it's a broad brush like oh yeah the insult community is the reason why is the reason why there's there's so many um shootouts no it's not it's not like don't blame somebody that don't blame that because if that's the case then virgins will be shooting up schools all the time because they don't get sex they don't have any sex well that is the incel community i mean most yeah i mean i mean i want to say virgin uh i mean if you want to i don't look at virgins as incels unless they have incel qualities like my thing is what incels is like The problem with incels is that incels is an involuntary celibate. Yes. It's basically people who

basically in my opinion they're guys I'll use as they're guys that lack self-accountability and They don't want to change in order to get what they want which obviously the love of a woman yeah and because they don't change they do say certain things that turn women off or turn people off and so as a result of that becomes a situation where it's like they're just angry and my thing is that you can't broad brush the guys that are lack that are not accountable to say virgins for example who may just once again going back to they may not gotten to that point where they've gotten that experience maybe it might be some guys who are trying to figure it out but it's like they're not angry like part of the problem is that a lot of these incels are angry they are angry people there's no reason for you to be angry because you're not getting no ass, bro. Like, it's like, it's like, it's...

The anger is self-directed. It's another example of that. It's self-directed because they then blame everything else around them because they want something that they apparently can't get. Exactly. You know? And so we talked about it with something else earlier in the conversation, but projecting your insecurities onto everyone else

and everything you're talking about too and i this has now come up on maybe three or four podcasts in a row and it's come up on probably at least half the podcasts we've recorded in here because it is it is applicable to everything we have in society now i think but you're also pointing out how everything has an equal but opposite reaction yeah and so that creates that zero to a hundred narrative so that like let's look at the all men are trash movement like the feminism hardcore feminism movement where did that come from that came from women who were pissed off at like the bad men doing bad things yeah totally understandable the answer then is not to then go to the other

side and say because all that happened and because there were these bad men here you're all like that and fuck you we're gonna take power now and to be funny sorry because i do this all the time this is the same thing that they do with sex oh men try to control our bodies so what we're gonna do is now we're all gonna start having sex with whoever we want and start our only fans and protect our bodies as if that's gonna solve everything because you know it's not like we're giving men what they want originally anyways exactly we're just making money off of it but that's none of my business i was just being shady but anyways continue no no no that's dude i'm such a i i i can tell you're like you're like what you're like sitting over there no come on come on come on come on no it's

not even that it's just i just my thing is i hate it because if men were doing the same thing i would be doing the same thing to guys it's like you can't be so mad at a group of people and like you know what because oh men said that we can't do this with people or i can't have sex with this guy or i can't do this i'm gonna have sex with whoever i want i want i'm gonna make money off of it but it's like okay i'll just pay you for sex and you just still gave me sex at the end of the day it's the i still be like there there's something about it and it goes back to like power structure but you know you look at men and women we're all equal obviously the one place where there is where there is a different level playing field is biologically physically you know

males are built more in a more dominant fashion. It is just science, like it's what it is. And so because of that, you have the quote unquote power structure. And it's frankly, throughout world history, it did always affect things. And now we're getting to a point where it's starting to not less. And that's where I bring in the point of, okay, the answer is not to flip the paradigm and suddenly have the women say, we're in power and you know you're our whatever but you look at this and i always think about it from the realm of okay even if i go to talk about something like that i get shut down because it's like well what are you trying to say exactly like yeah you're a male chauvinist or whatever i'm like no no all i'm saying is there's something about the structure there where – I always think of it this way.

But something about a 3D object that goes into another 3D object that is – you know what I mean? I know exactly what you're saying. There's something about that that just creates this whole like, oh, we got it, and they don't. And so then it creates the anger of like oh so we don't you know what i'm i'm speaking in tongues no you're not you're not you're not because it it's it's funny because i was always thinking about that where it's like it there has to be there has to be some type of like this is probably going this i forget we're going we're going let's do it there has to be some type of psychological effect from consistent and high numerous amounts of penetration like and i mean this by like women when when you have women up in that position women are in a

vulnerable state so now imagine you being in that vulnerable state with a bunch of different types of guys and when you look at that situation this this is me just freestyling right now. But it's like if you think about it from that standpoint, it's like you're consistently having guys see you in a vulnerable state or putting you in a vulnerable position. And, you know, they just hacking away. And for me, this is not to say this is not to say like sex isn't cool. You're free to have sex with whoever you want but it's like they're like you kind of have to consider like okay all these guys are doing this at a certain point like how does that affect you and how you view guys not from a standpoint of all guys want sex but from a standpoint of having a guy being domineering over you're being dominant

you know what i mean and it's the same thing with guys where it's like you know when you get enough ass it's like you think that you're that guy and it's like it comes down for me it's like we shouldn't have to think that way and i think that going back to the incel community this is why i make fun of incels because it's like you guys are mad because you're not getting any ass but it's like just work on yourself like go to go to the fucking gym like just lift read books do what you need to do want to do it yeah they don't want to do it and it's like you do you you do that and you're upset but it's like the simplest of things will get you whatever you want just work hard control what you can control and just always be self-reflective and always be the best version of yourself and that's that's just been that's just been my thing just about life and that's why it's like i always look at looking at the

the red pillars or the manosphere and i look at the twitter the man the manosphere the manosphere what's the manosphere the the red pill community the insult community the oh god yeah they're all over the place i call it the manosphere but it's like i look at it and it's like they're two sides of the same coin because it's like a lot of people don't want to be self accountable and it's like that's that's why it's like i always make fun of like either i'll make fun of the insult people i'll make fun of the red pillars i'll make fun of the twitter feminists because it's like none none of you have realized that all this shit starts with you and the moment that you realize that it starts with you and you start doing the self-development you get what you want we move into a better society we move into a society where you know we're not just always hyper hypersensitive to political situations all these different things

that are going on and just yeah that's just really it i just want people to be better that's why it's like i it's like i just get so i just look look at people and I'm just like, yo, you know how easy it would be if you just shut the fuck up for six months? Just got off of Twitter, read books, read your Bible. That's what I do for a lot of people. Meditate, journal. In six months, you'll be a completely different person. And it's self-responsibility there. I don't want to lose that first point though that you're talking about where you're talking about a woman is in a very vulnerable position during sex,

and if they're having sex with a lot of men, that's a lot of different vulnerable positions to be in. I'm kind of restating what you were saying, but not as well as you said it. You're inspiring me to go to some places here that are a little dangerous, but fuck it, I'm going to do it. Yo, I'm going to, yo. I think everything goes here. I told you this.

Everything goes. We'll talk about it. Because I can't relate to that, but i can analyze some of it yeah and that's what i want to do because we're talking about like you know let's not to pick on them but let's look at like hardcore feminists and then look at the males who follow suit online in that community that you talk about i know those guys get no ass i'm sorry that is what i want to get to because i'm going to focus on heterosexual women right now and this is a crude way of putting it but correct me if i'm wrong ladies if you are a female in bed or going to bed with a male

do you want to control him the whole time have complete control and and power the fuck out of him no you do not this is what you want to do no you do not oh i didn't want a man yeah honestly and and i mean this and i'll say this in both directions for the genders but both of you in a different way, the male and the female, want to get fucked. And you want to get fucked because there's a certain role for those things to actually have in that situation. And so when you are a feminist out there screaming like, oh, you know, we want women's power. We basically want to make up for everything that's been done wrong to us by men, bad men over time. And in some cases, like, you're absolutely right about that, and you should want to make up for everything that's been done wrong to us by men bad men over time and in some cases like you're absolutely right about that and you should want to make up for it but not by going

the opposite way i talk about because then you create these women and say yeah no totally women's power whatever and you know what they don't do they don't fuck you in bed because they're a fucking they're a child there's somebody who does who is it was so uncomfortable in their own skin as a man that they can't come out and say like hey you know what there's a line with some stuff i'm not gonna go attack my own to fucking sound good to you because at the end of the day you're not gonna respect me for that because you're gonna look at me as a bitch and and they should by the way they should and i think the reason i think it i didn't want to go here today uh but yeah that so uh oh jesus deep breath if my friend well my friends watch this and they're like i'm a guy somebody hates women i'm not that's not and and let me hedge because it's my not hedge

qualify because it is my podcast and i'm gonna qualify for you too because you're on it but that's anything we're talking about here this this is a very obvious world. Everyone should have the same right to go after whatever the fuck they want regardless of their race, gender, whatever, religious background, whatever. All we're trying to talk about is where the skews happen. So where the manosphere, as you said, tries to say all this bullshit and where the feminosphere tries to say all this bullshit. I'm not going to get with either of them. I think they're fucking crazy. So I'm going to call them crazy. And I'm going to talk about it in a way where I have to define some things

that are some biological tendencies of us. So if I have to sit out here and say, yes, like, women enjoy being fucked by a fucking masculine man, I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that. I think that's pretty much a fact. You're not going out on a limb saying that. It's just a reality of the situation. I think that most guys don't know what'm going out on a limb saying that. I think that's pretty much a fact. You're not going out on a limb saying that. It's just a reality of the situation. I think that most guys don't know what it takes to be that.

And I think that that's part of the biggest problem. And this is where I can agree. This is where my problem is with feminists and a lot of women out. The groupthink women that follow the feminists. A lot of women, I'll be be honest a lot of women want traditional men but they want to pick and choose when they want to have the traditional man it's the same thing explain that yeah it's it's both it's on both sides both men and women want the traditional male female but they only want to pick and choose when they want it like guys nowadays guys want the

woman that'll stay home raise the kids and fuck you whenever you want but they don't want to put in the work to sit here and have a woman stay home they would rather say oh i want the sex whenever i want but hey babe let's go 50 50 on bills this is and you had this is important and you have to have the energy when you come back from work let's say if you work in a health field you work a seven these are work a 7p to 7a right before I wait before I wake up. Oh, I want to take you to pound town and then I'm going to work. And then she's supposed to be okay with that. Yeah. Women want the man to pay all the bills, but they don't, they don't want to sit here and learn.

We're going to go here to, from a religious standpoint, learn how to understand that. Okay. A guy has his certain role in the house and there's a certain need for a guy in the house. And I, I need, I need a man to help me raise a family. has his certain role in the house and there's a certain need for a guy in the house and i i need i need a man to help me raise a family i need a man to help me take care of the house the way i see fit it's the same way with a man where it's like you don't want to see the role that a woman is needed for in the position more than just sex it's more just paying bills and when people understand that that's when we can have a better society but the reality of the situation is that

we all just want to pick and choose what traditional roles we want and we apply them to our house and it's like the reality is the biggest reality is that men aren't getting no ass and they're miserable women are not getting their bills paid which makes them upset they go in there 50 50 they thought a man was going to be masculine but none of y'all know how to do that because everybody thinks they fucking know it all and when somebody tries to tell you like jerry seinfeld said we all have to be politically correct on how we talk to people and people are just super sensitive like so sensitive like you guys are like guys you guys act like low-ass girls i'm sorry women like y'all don't have to be i can do battle by myself and that's the reality of the situation and i don't think people look at it like

that and i think that's where like even a girl that like i'm on and off with right now like that's where sometimes she doesn't understand where i come from because it's like i'm not mad at women because women because women want things i'm mad because a lot of times both men both men and women want things but they're not working to get it like if you're not talking yeah like if you're a guy because i feel like i've been shitting on women a lot i'm gonna shit on guys now but they're not working to get it. Like, if you're not talking. Yeah, like, if you're a guy, because I feel like I've been shitting on women a lot. I'm going to shit on guys now. Guys, if you want sex whenever you want from a girl,

put in the work. Don't think that because all these girls saying that they love dad bods, all this shit, that that means it's going to work. No, they want a guy who's in shape. They want a guy who's fit, that can work, that can take care of the goddamn house. Like, there's no reason why your girlfriend's car breaks down or her tire pops and you can't fix it there's no reason why you can't at least learn how to change your oil even if you fuck it up at least you learn me i can fix my

brakes on my car i can change my oil i could change a tire like my girl was my girl was all the way like 40 minutes away from those like yo i'm gonna fix your tire fix your time 15 minutes it doesn't take that long but most of these guys and it's oh and it's oh and you're saying i just My girl was all the way, like, 40 minutes away from me. I was like, yo, I'm coming to fix your tire. Fix your tire in 15 minutes. It doesn't take that long. But most of these guys don't. And you're saying, I just want to make sure, too. You're saying it's okay because that's like those types of stereotypes are viewed as more likely for the male to be interested into it and take care of it. And it's perfectly fine for that to continue to be the case because it's not sexism or anything. Yeah, it's not sexism.

Like, it's like I don't expect a girl i'm not saying a girl can't but i don't expect a woman to fix my car because she's not interested in that most women aren't interested in that like when we even look at jobs women are not interested in high industrial jobs because they're dangerous women value family time there's a there was a there was an article um about um it was man actually i don't even remember if i could find it but basically in short man both men and women went to the same job um it was a working job i forgot what it was and basically the statistics showed that the woman took more time off than the men and the reality of the situation did that have to do with like parental leave like maternity leave yes yes yes yes yes

okay which makes sense yeah they took off they took off maternity leave some of them just took off just to take off and they worked less than the men did because they valued family most of the people that worked in that environment they valued family they valued you know off time personal time the men were just working they naturally worked more hours in that industrial area so my thing is that like there's certain things where it's like i'm not gonna be mad if i see a girl knowing how to change a car i won't be mad at that like at the end of the day it saves you money like i'm not mad at it but if you're in a situation where you know you're dating somebody or you're a guy and your girl can't like if your woman can't do that why can't you go pick up a book and go on youtube and learn

how to change your girlfriend's tire or change a spare tire like there should there should be certain things that you should just be wanting to do not even because of a girl like as a guy like there's just some things you just need to know like i shouldn't have to call julian if i'm down the street in in philadelphia or something like that because i can't change my tire and you should be and here's the thing let's say let's use that same example let's say you don't know how to do that like for whatever reason never sat around and learned how to do that as a man man or female so again it's fine if female does this too but as a man you can take out your goddamn phone and go on youtube real fast and figure that out it is not hard i had one example with my car it wasn't a tire it was it was some some bullshit like on in under the hood

i don't remember what it was maybe it was like fluid or something like that yeah had never looked at in my life didn't inherently know how to do it it's like a year ago boom whipped out youtube five minutes later it's done it's not hard it's not it's not hard and that's the thing it's like there's certain things you should be able to do and that's another thing like for guys like i'm gonna be i'm gonna be on the guys now because it's like for guys like what women want they want you to take initiative and you need to learn how to take initiative into your own life you know i'm saying it's like i i think the best way to put it like this if you play video games if you play cod you take initiative to find the best weapons you find initiative to find the best location to be a

sniper you take the initiative to be the sniper to be the person that goes in and hunts people down or puts in the mad love or whatever the shit's called. Like you take that initiative. So why not apply that same theory that you do in video games, playing League of Legends, taking initiative to go and fight directly, whatever path you want to take.

Take that same initiative into your life. Find your purpose. Find something that makes you money. Find something that makes you money find something that makes you happy and i guarantee you like when you do that it makes life easier for you dealing with women because when women see that you're doing what you need to do what women want they just want to be able to come in and flow and be themselves and the reality is that this is where i this is where i can empathize with feminists where it's like a lot of feminists never got to be a woman in a relationship or at least the the ones that aren't

deranged like the like a lot of them feel like yo i have to be the man in a relationship or i have to do this like i have to do this it's not fair and to be fair too i want to i want to be able to have this so that we don't broad brush some things i think there's plenty of women who call themselves like a feminist because they think that's what they're supposed to do and by the way maybe they are but they're not there they're not yeah like and and when i say there i mean like extremists like trying to like take power or whatever whatever the hell you call it right and and they're perfectly fine but i just want to make sure yeah no like yeah under that context yeah they just do it because it's like yo i want to support women some women just want

to support women and just be a woman but the reality is that because society has just because men have because a lot of men haven't done what they've had to do in the past it's come to a point where society has made women feel like they have to go and do everything yeah and because of that you now go back to group think where women do feel like they have to do everything and they have to support women and how do you support women by doing everything because you want to be just like your girlfriend you want to be just like your girlfriends that are doing all this living by herself having doing all these different things and that's and that's just how we have to look at it it's like for guys it's like we just have to be on our shit and it's like that's just the biggest thing and it's like when

you take initiative and you start doing things that you need to do as a guy it's like other things become easy like your woman is not going to argue with you if you're going out chasing money and he you're working harder than her so she don't got to work she'll never be mad at you for that like she'll never be mad your kids will your kids may not understand it for a while. If you go down and you talk to them, learn to have a relationship with the next generation of men, they're not going mad at you for it. You know, and it's like, I think that's the biggest thing with guys. Like I always want to challenge guys and tell them like, yo, like you need to learn how to be expressive, learn how to express yourself because that's super important. You also need to learn how to be a guy. Do things like take initiative. Do things. Just learn how to do shit. It don't make sense.

By the way, and I like this too, you are at face value of what you're saying based on what society tells us. You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth on this. But you're right. At least I agree. I think you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth on this but you're right at least i agree i think you're right yeah and what i mean by that is you say on the one hand men need to be more comfortable with like expressing themselves and whatever and also men need to be able to go do the regular men shit and they need to know how to do that shit and and hold it down yeah because fair yeah okay the reason i am bringing that up is because on the one hand with more expressiveness which i agree with

you're taking more of a modern day stance of like oh this is these are like things that maybe the feminists would say about men oh you need to be more expressive stuff like that and then on the other hand you're you're taking the old school stance of like yo men do this shit you know what i mean yeah so it's like there are different factions that could pull what you're saying and pull those two separate things in the different directions and could pull what you're saying and pull those two separate things in the different directions. And I think what you're pointing out and what I like to point out on this podcast is that you are creating the new, better, best form of man based on the information we have now in society. And you are truly taking the middle ground with that, basically saying like, hey, we're going to keep the things that did make us great as men, right? We don't want to get rid of those.

And we're also going to add the things that made us lack as men. And you're also, by the way, when you're saying expression, it goes back to your communication point with how relationships fall down over time or men and women can't figure out how to live under the same roof together. It's because they're not talking. And so men have to be able to express it, and it works both ways too. The women have to understand how the man is best going to express. And that's just really what it is.

It's like I just think that like, yeah, that's really it's just communicate. Because for me, I grew up in Nigeria. I didn't grow up in Nigeria. I'm lying. My family, my family's from Nigeria. I grew up in a Nigerian household. And for me, one of the things that I've always noticed is that in nigerian households we have a very very traditional household and where the problem has come from is that the firstborn always suffers the most um i was the firstborn i suffered um just from a standpoint i'm not saying

my dad wasn't like me my dad didn't talk but it was more so like my dad wasn't the one who took care of the kids he was just i go work and everything else would be okay and the reality situation is that how that affects people that as a guy you want to be able to learn how to be vulnerable because that's good for your for your son or your kids and so for me looking at it it becomes a situation for me where it's like okay what would I have wanted growing up I would have wanted my father to connect with me more you know and it's not his fault because he didn't know how like my dad has had his own situations you know he's a my dad is a g but um but it's awesome it's like i'm gonna tell a story about that in a second but it's like when you grow up in that if you when

you grow up in that type of household where it's like your dad works you know he busts his ass and you know he's not really connecting not because he doesn't want to because i know how it becomes a situation where it's like you know you would want that for your kids you know you don't want to have the overbearing mother the one who has to do all these different things like for example like my grandpa my grandfather and i was going to talk about this we're going to talk about religion and politics too because i wanted to get into that but like my grand you go wherever the fuck you want to go okay so like i do not care okay so like my grandpa so my grandpa most people i'm revealing this for the first time so a lot of people who don't really know me.

My grandpa had three wives in Nigeria. And that was, what's that called? Polygamy or whatever? And it's normal in Nigeria. Perfectly normal. Yeah, it's normal in Nigeria. He also had three cribs. So every wife had a crib.

And so the thing is. Gramps was balling. Mother fucker was balling. Mother fucker was balling. I'm going to get ripped for that, but still said it. Let's go. He was said it let's go he was balling no he was balling and it's just like what what happened was that my grandma was the youngest of the three wives so she had to she had to fight scream yell do all this stuff to get what she wanted as a result my mom kind of took place of that and she did a lot of things that it's like okay like

you you don't have to do that and looking at me it's like because my dad's unexpressive my mom's the expressive one it's like now i'm the super expressive one and it's like sometimes i may not do everything that a man would do and so for me when i talk about stuff you filled the blank in you're saying yeah i filled the blank and it's like okay so it's like all right yeah i it's like, all right, yeah, I'm expressive. I wear my heart on my sleeve sometimes. I didn't know that. I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. Yeah, no, I wear my heart on my sleeve a lot, to my detriment a lot. But the reality of the situation is that what I've started to learn as I grew up was that there's other things I needed to learn how to do as a guy, so that's how I could be self-sufficient.

Because the last thing that you want, like, it's no offense to them, but a girl doesn't want to take care of you because women are naturally nurturing people, and she doesn't want to feel like she has to raise another child. Yes. You know? And so. Have you seen the recent, I mean, I love thinking about this stuff. I have never Googled for a study on this, but I'm going to have to do that now that I'm bringing it up. But there's been a recent trend, I'd say, like, you probably say over the last three, four years even. And who knows?

Maybe it's longer. I don't know. But where women are very into guys with dad bods. Shit is so weird, bro. Okay. It's not weird to me, and I'll tell you why. Why? I mean, it's totally weird to me, but it's not unexpected, I should say, to me.

I fully understand it. My theory is that women of of this generation so the gen z millennial-ish kind of line right they are looking for a man and they can't find many of them and so what do they do they think about their dads who have those masculine qualities they were still their dads chances are if they were children of the late 60s 70s and early 80s they're still getting underneath the car and fixing the oil and everything yeah they're still you know getting rolling their sleeves up and fixing the pipes they're still doing the funny like dad isms when he goes out to dinner and he's going to say

the exact same thing that you can predict from a mile away to the waitress they're doing all these things that the man supposedly is supposed to do over time and so now these girls everyone jokes man marries his mom girl marries their dad these girls are literally now hoping that if they find something who physically looks like their dad maybe that'll actually be a man in the realm of their dad just the basic masculine traits that's my little theory and that's what i want to know if i'm totally on base there or totally off base in your opinion that's an interesting thought i never thought about that i never thought about it like that

seeing a lot of guys with six packs who won't get underneath the car that's all i'm saying i don't know why the shit is weird like it's not it's not a difficult thing to do no like it's like once you know where everything is for me my philosophy is this my boundary is i don't touch engines you'll never see me touch an engine i'll put in the coolant i'll put in the yeah that was an extreme example yeah i don't know what you're saying but it's just like for me is i'll never do that but it's like i'll never touch an engine i'll change the battery i can change certain things in the car like i could put in new oil i can change oil stuff like that never ever try to work on the engine i'll never do it because i i'm not an engineer yeah i'm not

a mechanic yeah that's the next level yeah but stuff that i could do just do it and it's like i get where you're coming from i think that's an interesting theory uh huh who would have thought right everything ties back together there's even if they don't know why they doing it, and that could be males or females depending on the psychological situation. In this case, I'm talking about females thinking about men. There's a reason behind your eye wanting something. And so when you are looking around at society and now we've just – and again, I don't think it's intentional like do i do i think that a hardcore feminist who's out there screaming men are trash doesn't still in the back of their mind subconsciously want a man in in that case if they're a heterosexual feminist in that way absolutely

like like like i i think she does but what she doesn't realize is that she's creating this this platform that then everyone has to agree with online, right? Because you can't shut that down. Damn, Skippy. That is now potentially ruining the type of man you want. And stripping away from that platform. And that's where I draw the line. That's where I'm like, okay, that's when you know you're going too far with stuff.

So the answer, again, the answer is not to be like, oh, let's go back to the old way of doing things. That's ridiculous. But the answer is to go where you want to go, is okay let's let's what's the bruce lee line let's take what's good let's discard what's bad let's move forward and that's just what it is is that that's just been my biggest thing it's like i guess i'm not big communicate like people don't ask me questions the way that you're asking me questions so we don't like i never get to flush it out but it's like my biggest thing is that both men and women have their equal share of problems i understand men as a guy i understand how bad we can get like we're the reason why a lot of the world wars have happened like we we our egos pretty much yeah our egos have our egos have up

at the end of the day but at the same time it's like a lot of times women have been in the background in some way shape or form because of that but nobody discusses that the trojan war yeah the trojan war yeah yeah it's just like we look at things like that and it's like okay we understand like guys have egos we understand women we understand that to an extent women have been put in situations where they have not given opportunities to be themselves and it's we have to understand that it's like we can't just sit here and show each other that's just the reality situation we should have politicians but we can't yeah but yeah yeah the shitting one on everything is something i always say i gotta check myself on too because

it's very easy to become cynical about all this stuff like we're right now really focusing on like male and female gender relationships and like you just pointed out the politician stuff i'll admit with politicians i'm extremely cynical you're more likely to hear me shit on somebody much more likely probably 90 something percent of the time rather than say like oh you know that was okay or it's whatever where I think that we need to turn inward as a society here is finding a new balance between criticism and progress which it's a little bit of a complicated way of putting it but like let's take media for example right the whole point of the press since whatever the 1500s is to have a check of balance on on power right so you have in a country the emperor or whatever press if they have free speech which other places didn't let's just say

they did they can they can check what they're trying to do so here with the president or congress the press can check that and so i love that where it goes too far is when we start to just try to check everything for this sheer basis of checking everything and add another layer below that what is the press the media it's a business which perfectly fine everyone's gonna make money you can't do shit for free i understand that yeah but you are incentivized to check things more because we the people everyone we are more regardless of what we think politically or socially or whatever we are more likely to engage with things that go again that basically say fuck the status quo than we are to say hey so here's the report

on the status quo today yeah i think that i i think that's a good point i think where my problem comes in with media particularly is just that this it's not i don't think there's a there's a check and balances anymore it's just major media outlets want to be right they want the most traction and they want the most money and it's just like my thing is what happens with that is people don't people are not how do i say this you want a steady flow you don't want you don't want a you don't want a tidal wave of people because what normally happens is that tidal waves are not consistent when you have a steady flow when you have a steady flow of individuals that come into you that come into your um platform reading the news they come every like a bbc for example oh you

know what i'm saying yeah yeah now the plane landed yeah sorry no so it's like you don't want like we'll use this for example when kobe bryant died everybody wants a tmz like i hate tmz because tmz wants to be first before they're being right. And what's getting nasty is that the way that they're getting their information to be first and right is making me sick. And that's the problem. It's like you're first and you're right. But it's like at the end of the day, I can never trust a TMZ for me to go say, hey, I want to go learn about fucking what Donald Trump did today, hypothetically speaking. I'm not going to go to TMZ. I'm going to go to BBC.

I'm going to go to The Economist. I'm going to go to certain places where I understand that they're reputable. Don't you recognize that a lot of people don't go to the effort you're going, though, right now? Yeah, no, of course, because people don't fucking read. But not even, you know what? I'll even take their side for a minute. Some people, it's like, yeah, legitimately they could, and could and they're just like sitting there and being lazy absolutely but there's a lot of people like you know they got

they got lives like they're they're busy putting food on the table or something and very quickly they read shit and they read headlines because there's a million things coming at them and so i get that it doesn't make the problem any better the problem is a problem but there's there's this thing where it's like we just assume everyone just wants to be not informed or wants to not go out of their way to do something and sometimes it's just like yeah people are are busy about going about life yeah people can be busy going about life but then what ends up happening is that you end up going into a situation and you assume that that's the right information. Like my biggest thing is that if you're going to just be about going and reading the headlines, choose places that choose the right headlines.

Like for example, you can't use – you can't – for me being a black man, I can't go to the roots and say that everything that they go on there is pro-black because it's not like most people don't know the roots is super super small publication and they do it they say i know the root yeah they they say a lot of bullshit like and my thing is that i can't go there and be a black man and say oh yeah i'm gonna listen to this and read what they're saying and or read a headline and just assume like oh i misunderstood what you said at first okay yes i got you yeah it's like i'm not i'm not just gonna go there to read a headline like if i'm gonna read about something i'm gonna go to the economist and read the headline and read the morning joe and be like okay this is what's going on in the world today if i'm gonna go maybe i might read cnn even though they're a little bit more blue or i'm maybe fox news even though they're a little bit more red and it's like

good for you i i can't do anything no like like don't get me wrong i'm not saying i go on i don't go on fox and cnn all the time like there's places i go to i read i read the economist you know i'm saying um i read like yeah the economist is like the only one that i'm like you know what i go on there i go on politico i go on these places where it's like they're trusted i can't go on some random ass place like what makes them trusted um what makes them trusted is that for me going to political there's a very good balance of red and blue and there's a very good balance of how people have their opinions they have news articles which is just strictly facts they have their opinion they have their opinionated columns same thing with

the economist the economist has news facts that goes in for every country and then for some things they have the opinionated columns they have obviously like the economic facts stuff like that i had i was an economics minor in i mean yeah minor in college so love the business stuff so for me it's like i like the stuff for me i like shit that's balanced yeah that's a that's the type of person i want to find yeah it's hard but it's like if you find it you find it the economists have always been balanced for me you know i can't like i'm not saying cnn is not a good place but because fox news is so terrible it's like i i might as well take it might as well take you know you know what's interesting and it's it's funny you bring that up because i was just thinking about this this morning you know

the news app on the iphone yeah So I guess when I set up an iPhone seven years, what, eight years ago, whatever it was, I turned on the notifications for that and I've never turned them off. Yeah.

And I can't tell you the last time I actually swiped and clicked an article that came across. Like when I go, when something's happening, I go where I go, right?

I'll go to Twitter and look at some, what are the biggest sources trending there, start there, then I'll go to Google and look at some, what are the biggest sources trending there, start there, then I'll go to Google and work my own. Like, that's just my process. I'm sure some people click the news ones, but I never click them. That said, for whatever reason,

the iPhone still continues to send me push-button notifications of every single thing, every day. And they are only from two places. I mean, I'm sure there's been one or two examples of another place, but it is always either cnn or fox news yeah and sometimes now i will screenshot it because one will come in before the other and i'm like oh here comes the headline from the other one and it's going to be the fucking opposite and it's like we're like totally different take on the situation and i'm like and and they're also clickbaity because they're headlines they want

people to be able to get the attention. I hate clickbait. And I'm like, this is what people are listening to. They read this and they go, oh, that must be the news. And that's why it's like, that's why, that's, Jesus. That's why I don't want to say this. Well, oh, well, we already here. We're already here. Dude, that ship sailed a long time ago.

That's the part of the reason why I've been so apprehensive about going back into politics. It's like, I don't want to go back and work again for politics because I know that like... Oh, you worked in it? Yeah, I was a legislative aide. No kidding? Yeah, I was a legislative aide in North Jersey. So was that for a member of Congress or local government? It was local government.

It was the assembly. Got it. Okay. So I'll be in the state house once or twice a month. Got it. I was there during voting sessions. They got good food, yo. They got good-ass food.

That's what you were there for. The first time I went, I'm like, okay, cool. This is real, real cool. I was there when they voted in the $15 minimum wage bill for jersey like it was real cool just listen to him talk second time i'll come in they're like my chief of staff oh yeah i'm told there's food in the back if you want just let let the let the assembly people get their food first they got fish they had rice they had vegetables they had juice so i'm looking like damn this is what my tax dollars going to shit oh my god if this is the case i might be here all the time that's not gonna be my priority there but i respect it i'm joking but it's like it was

like so you were into it though yeah no like don't get me wrong like i'm into politics but where my problem comes in is just like i i just what year is this by the way just for context was was this 2021 this was like 2018 2019 okay so not yeah for context? Was this 2021? This was like 2018, 2019. Okay. So not, yeah, not like a long time ago. So it was like, I don't have a prop, like I've wanted to run for office. Where my problem comes in is that I don't like being restricted. And it's like, depending on how you run, you have to, like, you're restricted to those people and if like you're not necessarily agreeing with

those people or agreeing with how they're trying to move you're kind of stuck a little bit so like my my um assemblyman that i worked for he came in he came in through um he came through education um to keep it real real actually i don't give a shit no more yeah i don't give a shit no more he was a professor um are you allowed to say who it was i mean i can't actually you know yeah let's give the people the transparency yeah i'll be i'll be a little transparent i worked for assemblyman andrew zwicker uh andrew zwicker i remember seeing those little signs yeah he was where i lived oh really yeah oh awesome yeah awesome yeah i lived up there for five years and just during corona i came back down here oh that's awesome i'll be back up there though you know he um yeah he was the um scientist

he was a scientist professor guy so scientist professor guy yeah he was a professor at princeton he works at princeton plasma lab now he's an assemblyman so yeah he's stupid yeah they didn't know anything yeah completely yeah we're kidding people yeah we're really kidding don't don't go and send this to him on this. Yes. And the next scene, I don't want a phone call. Please. But no, seriously.

Okay. But yeah, I worked for him, and it was real, real cool. It was real interesting. I'm just apprehensive about it just because it's like, I'm not saying he disagreed with anything like the education. I'm just saying he came in through education because he was a teacher. And so now let's say for me, if I wanted to come in through education, I don't agree with some of the things they're doing at a certain point it's like I kind

of I'm not saying my loyalties to them but it's like I have to appease them because they got me into where I'm at what was the word you used earlier my favorite word I'll tell it to you because you used a lot of words I'm sorry sorry. I did a lot. It's groupthink. Groupthink, yeah. And it's funny because I hear you say that and before you even said I'm apprehensive about doing it and gave the reason why, which was because I don't appeal to any one thing. I knew that was the answer because I cannot figure out where the fuck you stand because you're all over the place. And you're now probably the fifth or sixth person i've had in here like that which i love because i'm all over the place too and i look at this and i go this could be the next generation of problem solvers though that actually overtake this bullshit system we have because we have what

you're saying without saying it and i think you do mean to say this but correct me if i'm wrong seriously anytime i say something that's like no you're wrong just tell me but what you're saying without saying it and i think you do mean to say this but correct me if i'm wrong seriously anytime i say something that's like no you're wrong just tell me but what you're saying is that these two parties on these millions of issues we have i mean they're in the millions right there is one it is a or b b or a right and and if if you are on team a or team b and we're talking about democrats or republic, you must appeal to everything they have there. And if you actually do disagree with something, shut the fuck up and don't say it out loud because they will not accept that. And they will then all virtue signal each other to each other's parties by saying like, oh, you're an outlier. Fuck you.

And they will kick you out of their little groupthink society. And this is my problem with politics because this is a ridiculous assertion in a world with as much access to information and resources as we now have that's why i gave up on aoc you started on aoc i was cool i liked her at first but interesting i liked her not because of the fact that not because of the fact that she was 100 right but i liked her because she seemed relatable and then then I realized, then she voted for Nancy Pelosi, and I realized, okay, now she's being a politician. And it's like, then I heard her talking about the cages and ICE and stuff like that.

My biggest problem with Dems is like, the Senate Dems are really conservative, and people don't really talk about that. The House Dems are a lot more liberal, and that's where they make all the noise, and that's where all the people talk but then it's like it gets to it gets to the senate and it's like because they're super conservative it's almost like damn it's like they only do stuff because you know the house dems have made so much noise if the house

dems didn't really talk the way that they did i guarantee that the dude you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between house dems and the whole republican party thing... Well, can I ask you this real fast? Yeah, sure. So when you look at the Republican Party, I'm trying to get like a straw poll on this for what people think, because now, you know, we're like four months into Biden, which more importantly, four months post-Trump, right?

And hopefully that's the last we've heard of him. I have a very interesting theory on that. I think that would be beneficial for everyone but anyway we're we're past that era where you know he's the top of republican parties when people think republican they think trump do you think that that party is still that way and is going to be that way moving forward whatever that is meaning it's like defined under trumpism no but i think that they my biggest thing is that trumpism isn't trumpism is basically what most of these people do but they don't say

like like jesus oh gosh let me put this down people about start hating me on this one so here's my thing i'm gonna make a reel after this of all the times you had to like lean around fuck are we really i'm really doing there's gonna be like two minutes of you doing that and be like tune in that's the episode no honestly but you're not so it's like so here's the thing right i'm gonna preface this by saying something really wild and i'm actually i'm actually glad donald trump was in office okay and i'm not saying this because i support a lot of his policies because a lot of his policies were from when he originally ran for office when he ran for president like i think like 2000 like the 1990s like he ran independent like for like 60 seconds yeah but

i mean the policies are still there you know what i'm saying some of them yes i'd have honestly actually i'd have to go back and really look most of them were most of them were very very simple they were adjusted but most of them are very similar to what he did now but so i so it's like for me it's like looking at it looking at trump i'm glad he was in office and i say this not because of the fact of like not because of the fact of i would once i would want somebody like that in there because it showed us it should everybody had to show their ass at that point um had to what show their ass what do you mean by that reveal who they really are oh okay so

it's like what i mean by that is like we look at we look at the democrats right trump was in office trump trump and the republican party for that whole four years did whatever the fuck they wanted to do do you think all right i i don't know actually i i disagree with that why because schumer and pelosi and you know what we saw saw this for eight years when Obama was in there with McConnell. It was the same shit from the other side. Schumer and Pelosi tried to stop every goddamn thing Trump did. And then, to their credit, and trust me, I don't like giving the people who have been in fucking Congress and Senate for 40 years any credit. Yeah, not that you're saying.

That's a whole separate issue. But to their credit, they took back the house and and and then eventually even the senate yeah in the second one so worked i mean i guess and what i mean by that i don't mean that in a sense of like i'm not saying that like they didn't fight to get what they wanted but what i mean is that like the the republican party was a lot more active when trump and the republican party was in office they did a lot they did they made a lot of moves in terms of like you know bringing in another bringing another um supreme court justice making trump trying to repeal certain move trying to

repeal certain laws things of that nature so for me it became a situation where it was like i'm not saying this in a sense of they did everything that they wanted to do but they were moving in a sense of this is what the fuck we're going to do and you guys are just going to react to it and for us it was like one one day one democrats had the house and you know one democrat started having power it became a situation to me it just kind of looked like they weren't really doing anything you're just kind of talking it's like you had the ability to change certain things but you chose not to you guys kind of just were like oh my gosh we hate trump and didn't say anything and so for me how i was looking at it it was it was more so like you're put like this you're sparring with somebody and they're punching you and you're not punching back because you're just saying the same thing and not really

paying attention to what's going on yeah and it's like for me and that's that's what and that's what made me irritated where it was like okay you guys you guys are in charge of the house at a certain point you guys are doing you guys were saying you wanted to do all these things and now nothing's happening trump came in he's like yeah um i'm changing i'm gonna fuck with china yeah i'm changing corporate taxes yeah i am going to start building a wall um things of that nature and it's like he just was like yeah i'm doing this it's whatever and then was you can't do this well the democrats didn't let him do some of that stuff no i'm saying that they didn't let him do some of that stuff don't get me wrong but i'm saying this in a sense of like there was a lot more talking than not

action if that makes sense i don't know i don't know if i'm making sense on this one i you're making sense i don't agree with all of it because i think they did look if we're looking at it as the objective was to obstruct trump i think they obstructed him well especially by the end okay now look that makes sense now here's the thing about trump and this is what always blew my mind about the democrats and stuff because i I really believe that if COVID hadn't happened, Trump would have won that election. By a landslide. Oh, my God. It would have been.

By a landslide. And it would end, like, let's say it wasn't even Joe Biden, right? It was someone else, like some sort of better candidate. By a landslide. He'd have won that but he still was in the running after all after blowing a lot of stuff there and and a bad response and all that because what i couldn't understand is that why the democrats didn't realize that you just had to let him talk you don't have to just get out there and virtue signal and say like this disgusting man you don't have to get on your

goddamn soapbox and say that all the time that pushes some people right into his arms when this guy just is given an open mic to keep going he's gonna tell you to suck down a Tide Pod like that's what it's gonna happen look what he did on January 6th yeah because he gave him an open mic and that's that's that's where that's where i looked at things it was just like you guys are taught like you guys i how do i say this my biggest problem with it was i'm i was just upset because the democrats showed their ass just in a sense of it just seemed like you guys were really more so more so trying to just beat trump than win a presidency and win and help a country and that

was where i guess i was trying to say everybody was showing their ass like the idea for me was just like i don't like when people are trying to do things just for the prime objective of just beating somebody especially when it comes to politics. Welcome to politics. Yeah. And it's like, for me, it's like, you don't want that type of thing because now we have Joe Biden. I'm not saying Joe Biden's okay, but it's like, my thing is that when it comes to Democrats, I look at them for a societal standpoint. I don't look at them for financial things because they don't make sense.

Like, Joe Biden is doing a bunch of bullshit right now that i don't agree with but my thing is i look for i look at democrats as when it comes to moving as a society you guys are the you guys are the people that talk about society so much but on the background you guys really haven't done anything and i want to see more action like virtue signaling basically yeah and that's just my big that's just my biggest thing it's just like with democrats i would appreciate as a black man i would like to see more action being done not just for black people just for society in general where people can actually function together you know and it's just i feel like i'm rambling right now but no no no this is good like the biggest the biggest problem with me is that like i'll use this as an example like we look at derrick the derrick chauvin case like the

derrick chauvin case i'm glad he went to jail but my biggest thing is that like democrats for the longest time when you guys have been in office democrats have taken over most of like local office um state office and a lot of the inner cities and a lot of the major urban areas in urban areas yeah whether it's black or white the society isn't good people die left and right crime is high left and right and you guys are in charge of society love they brought this up yeah and it's like nobody seems to pay attention to that it's like it's like we look at philly philly's a shit show right now but everybody everybody's a Dem in office. And this is where I get in trouble because this is where I stick my hand on the middle of the pulse and call it out and everyone gets pissed at me.

But fuck it. That's the best example or one of the best examples there is where you bring up the fact that a lot of the most pretty much all the urban areas in the united states of america have been run by democrats for 60 70 years whatever it is and we have the same fucking problems in many of the places and a lack of improvement where that leads a lot of people like the right side will then use that argument and say see they have no idea what they're doing so you're stupid and you have to vote for us yeah and that's where i have the problem exactly because i go okay i agree i i haven't seen a good city politician in a long time i'm sure there's been one haven't seen one in a long time but that doesn't mean that the answer is the opposite end because the opposite this is one thing that that my republican friends get pissed when i say this but it needs to be said because it is not a compliment of the Democrats, but it just shows a basic human issue here.

At least the Democrats take the time to go pander and lie to the faces of the people in the fucking cities because that's what they do, and it's disgusting. But the Republicans just fucking sit with their feet up on their desk and wherever the fuck they are with a newspaper open saying pull yourself up by the bootstraps you'll figure it out hey you know what's funny you know what's funny about that the reason why i left is because me and miles and shannon had a conversation about this and i told them i was like i'd rather work for somebody that tells me to pull myself up by the bootstraps than work for somebody that tells me that that tries to pander to me because the idea is that like as a as a constituent i'm a black man first and for me as a black man i've been given so many promises i've been promised 40 acres and a mule y'all barely gave us that i've been promised equality i've been promised i've been promised that you guys are gonna sit here

no way you said that was fucking i mean it's true it's like you guys promised us all these different things and what have you like what has really happened from the democrats in our society like you guys really haven't done anything for black people it's like a prime example i don't know if you know him but like i was listening to an interview in a breakfast club with dr umar johnson and he brought i don't know him he's a pan-africanist what's a pan-african i guess the best way to put is that pan-african is believe in the true pan-african is think of marcus garvey oh marcus garvey wanted everyone to go back to africa right yeah and so that's what

this guy wants essentially in a sense yeah more i'm broad stroking it right now. I feel like that's like reverse racism. I don't know if that's a term. No. What's, what's, well, reverse racism is like, I don't even know if that's real, but I'm getting above my pay grade right now. No, I get what you're saying, but. You know what I mean? Like, it's almost like, yo, you know what? We're, it gives off the vibe like, yeah, we'll go back to right where we came from because we're not good enough. Like, it seems stupid and counterintuitive to me.

It's not counterintuitive. I put it like this. We took a very, very sharp turn in politics here, but I'll put it like this. The biggest thing is how I look at it is more so about leverage, right? When we look at how the world has come about, like, in most cases, everybody's come from africa but the idea is that most of the people that are direct descendants from africa have been disadvantaged in every way shape or form and we came here right we came here we allowed europeans to come in take in african countries and for the most part essentially ruin our country, ruin our nations in one way, shape, or another. Do you think they fully allowed it, though?

I feel like a lot of it was by—and some of it, yes, you're right. Manipulation. But a lot of it was by force. Yeah, a lot of it was by force. I mean, when I say came in and things happened, I mean by force. But a lot of situations happened by force, by money deals. Even my country, even Nigeria. Nigeria became Nigeria because of a business deal not necessarily because whatever like we were just profitable we

got sold and my thing is that can you give context sir oh i don't know anything about that unilever sold unilever unilever was unilever was a country i mean the company i think that either bought or sold nigeria i forgot on top of my head yeah wait wait like you like like the people that made like clorox and shit yes that company sold a country yeah keep going i'll pull it up on on google behind you keep talking yeah they had a business transaction and ideally that's where nigeria came about and so for me we have these different things that have came so for me we have these different things that have came we have we have all these different things that have happened to africa as a direct consequence of dealing with the europeans and so for me it's become a situation where it's like

i look at it as instead of us just doing all these business deals with european countries and trying to get aid while we just give them money. Why can't we just take everything that we have and make it our own? Instead of us as black people suffering in America right now, we're getting shot by the police. They barely give us a loan. They barely they barely even allow us to be in schools. Why can't we go back and invest our money, the one trillion dollar in spending power that we have into Africa? Because if we do that, it creates the leverage where now if we go home and we stay in that country, we improve that country, we don't necessarily have to stay here.

Because the idea is that because a lot of African Americans don't have a lot of places to go, they feel stuck. And the idea is that when you have the ability to leave, when you have the ability to leave a situation, you have leverage. So now, hypothetically speaking, in my hypothetical world, if every black person left and went back to, say, the Virgin Islands, they went back to Africa, what's going to start happening? They're going to listen. Because what's more important— People here.

Yeah. Like businesses, politicians, things like that. They're going to listen because what's more important people here. Yeah. Okay. Like businesses, politicians, things that they're going to listen because at the end of the day, we have the money, we have the power, we have the culture.

So it's like, if there's no culture, Snapchat, Tik TOK, all those bullshits are not going to be profitable. We make Twitter profitable. We make sports profitable. So it's like,

if we bring that all and make it our own, the leverage is there and they're going to listen because they want to incentivize doing that. They want to have that incentive. So the biggest thing for me is that like going home, it's not counterintuitive. It's just really more so about creating leverage for yourself. That's just how I look at it. I also want to give context to what you were talking about to start that off with the Unilever thing. So I'll put this link in the show notes. It's from neverheardof.co. So hopefully this is a decent source. We're doing it live, people. So I'm going to skip over – there was basically a disagreement, and this is like not a crazy long time ago either. The end of the 1800s between the king of Nigeriaigeria and the british government over some business deal so the immediate effect i'm skipping over stuff the immediate effect of the brass oil war was that public opinion in britain turned against the total nigeria company which was some sort of

company that was like the biggest part of the economy in nigeria yeah so they revoked the charter in 1899 following the revoking of its charter the total niger company sold its holdings to the british government for 865 pounds 865 000 pounds that amount uh which is a lot of money in today's range exchange rate i can't even read what that number is was effectively the price britain paid to buy the territory which was to become known as nigeria so that you're saying that that when the british government did that unilever was involved with them because it also there's this is a long article here but the title of the article is how unilever sold nigeria to the british for 865 which wait it says how unilever in parentheses royal niger company so unilever was originally

a real niger company no shit yeah yeah holy fuck yeah and that's like and think and think about that's like 200 years ago let's dude that's way less than that it's like it's like yeah so my look i always try to think of a utopian world and in one way you just painted one which is let's say we all as black people had the resources and a lot of us do in your example and maybe that's also true to just use that leverage get the fuck up and leave and go back and form our own great metropolises right there across all these countries and and put all of our trillions of dollars into those economies that then build this whole new universe what that does is it creates even more tribalism obviously because it totally it just separates all of us it So I just, and this is what I want your response on.

My thought is that, like, I've seen the data where, and I don't even know how true some of this is, but it sounds good to me, where they've talked about, like, what year will it be where there will officially not really be a race anymore because we've had enough generation. You know what I mean? Like, the majority of us will look like blank, which is like this new race that's a mix of a whole bunch of things. Look, to me, it's like the faster we get there, the better, because then we can't draw like we can't have people who draw lines on the basis of the color of our skin. Then it's like goes out the window. And so when I see an example like this, like, oh, we're going back, that goes in the opposite direction. You know what I mean? It goes in the opposite direction, yes, but because of how society is right now, that's how I base off my theory. This isn't to say that at a point, like, my theory would be obsolete, because it probably will be, to be honest with you.

But the idea is that as African Americans, there needs to be leverage, or just even any race, because it's like the chinese have leverage the chinese are a superpower russia's a superpower europe i'm not going to say they're superpower but you know they have their own things going on you know what i'm saying and it's like it just kind of seems like a lot of like the african like the african countries a lot of the south american countries a lot of these people don't have the leverage the way america does or russia or china does and what what because they don't have

the foundation i mean yeah they don't have the foundation yeah but also at the same time we also have to understand that most of these countries were also just they were essentially manipulated pillaged yeah pillaged that's a good word and it's just it becomes one of those things where that's what that's what i mean by the way like they don't have that leverage because generations ago they were put in this cycle yeah and it's like and that's the biggest thing it's like for me i just want to create a place where it's like everybody has the leverage to be who they need to be not necessarily because it's like oh not because it's like oh fuck fuck um fuck white people's like no it's just the reality situation is that as of how it's presently constructed white people have leverage and a lot of the oldest white people in the country seem to

have all the money and most of the most of the largest families still own most of the money and because of that we're not going to change because most of these people have very very old rooted stereotypical points of view about not just african-americans but just about people and things in general how things work yeah and so we have to change it and so if you leave and you mess with their money fucks things up and i think that's the best way to do it like you always mess with people's money i always say it's like if you want someone to listen mess with their money yeah and that's just how i look at it i mean you know you're you're right um but yeah at a certain point people are going to end up not having to use race race is a construct that was that was presented based off of the the idea of religion because

most people couldn't really identify how so religion religion was the basis of how race came about and they say this because because everybody can be a christian or everybody can be a muslim everybody can be jewish or whatever religion you want to be they had to identify people somehow so they used your skin color apparently i haven't read the book yet i've been in my phone it's called the color of law no not Color of Law. I'm lying. That's a different, that's a completely different book. It is called, give me one second, library.

The Myth of Race. That's what it's called. Myth of Race. And yeah, that's what they talk about in the book. I like that title. Yeah. And that's just what it is. It's like race is a myth.

We all know this. Because at the end of the day, we all come from africa we just separated evolution things of that nature and so yeah it's safe to say that religion has caused a lot of people pain a lot of pain for people so you were saying that the point was because people couldn't tell each other apart couldn't tell what religion they followed they learned to see the color of your skin and then be able to deduce what religion you you were in was that it yeah essentially okay i haven't read the book yet i haven't read the book yet but that's that's basically what it is i also watched a lot of jane elliott that was the that was the um blue-eyed brown-eyed experiment woman who was older who talks about race i don't know about that so jane elliott jane elliott is a professor or she used to be a professor and she taught race and she didn't

experiment all her students with kids adults all that where it's like oh if you have blue eyes you're not allowed to do this or if you're blue eyes you have to get your water last you have to get your food last brown eyed people you're allowed to go first and it's and she was basically teaching race basically through your eye color and so as a result like when she was teaching like a college class like some girl like she had a freak i was like you can't do that it's not fair it's like what do you mean it's not fair you have blue eyes it doesn't matter to you and she's like she and she's a professor she's teaching like this is exactly what african americans deal with or this is what people of different colors deal with and so like it was really it was really interesting

and that's where i got the um the book the myth of race from i'm gonna read it this year but like it it's a it's pretty interesting um i've read like a sample of it's really really interesting and i think everybody should read it because like i said i want to check that out yeah definitely because i said religion is the biggest i don't want to say scam but religion has fucked people up i think religion has caused a lot of fucking problems in this world and and i am at the point in my life where i think that the bad has outweighed the good and i think that and it's sad to say that, and it's not broad-brushing every religion, and I'm not picking and choosing certain religions. I'm saying that it has separated us in a way that I now see also race separating us. And this is why I'm happy you turned it this way because I don't think – I've been waiting to have the right context to maybe bring it up in a conversation and go at a big issue that I pay attention to all the time and tie it back all together.

Let's do it. And yeah, I think this is the time to do it. Let's do it. You heard me whisper earlier about the wealth gap. And it's, by the way, applicable all over the world. Of course. We just have it kind of on steroids here. Yep. And I see a lot of issues with how we stereotype race in this country.

And you're going, you just said wealth gap. Why are you going to race? You're going to see. We speak far too simply in a way as just one of many examples for example as to painting a broad brush as if all black people are poor which could not be further from the truth it totally delegitimizes the black community and it delegitimizes star power within it because it creates this assumption like oh no no no that that's where you are so we'll help you out because of that you know and you can say that that's bullshit but also still say that hey like in for example in our urban communities where there's a lot of

there's a lot of black people there's a lot of hispanic people yeah those are poor areas that somehow exist in our country that have been put in bad cycles that we got to fix and so yes like we can point out that like those people are more likely to be poor because they live in those areas, right? But when you broad brush it and say all of them, it now creates this power structure that should not exist. Because the idea that someone who's black and someone who's white have different potential to use their God-given talents to do whatever, that's a construct. What's not a construct is where there are some like social cues i don't think cues is the word social traditions or social thoughts that give a better advantage to white people over black people in situations right i think the biggest way

to put it is just like the people who have money have made it so the people who don't have money can't get the money. And in most cases, it's been... The majority of the time. The majority of the time, it's been the white people. And because the majority of white people have had the money and because of whatever reason, whether it be psychological or racist, they have put black people in a position where they can't get the money. When we look at things like redlining, when we look at situations of – What's redlining? Redlining is basically a situation where they reconstruct political – they basically reconstruct – how do I say this?

Like gerrymandering? It's like gerrymandering. Like where they set the new district to be able to vote? Yeah. It's basically gerrymandering like where they set the new district to be able to vote yeah yeah it's it's it's basically yeah it's basically gerrymandering but for housing oh okay so it's not for okay got it got it so it's like certain air like camden stays poor because it's red line like yes okay i understand now so it's like when you have those types of situation those places naturally stay poor yes and so because of that situation it's a cycle you have those types of situations, those places naturally stay poor. Yes.

And so because of that situation. It's a cycle. Yeah, it becomes a cycle. And so it's like if you don't have the money, you don't really get to change things. And that's the biggest thing of why I said it's like the biggest thing is opportunity. When you present people opportunities to do well, you present people opportunities to get themselves out of situations and good opportunities not just shit opportunities they take it and they run with it and the idea is that there's so there is a lot of potential it's just there's no opportunity you know not everybody like people don't get it about poor people before we even go to religions like well people don't understand about like poor people that people think that the easiest way to get out of debt or to get out of poverty is to work hard but it's not just working hard because you

have to work hard you have to you have to work 40 hours a week minimum for you to make ends meet that's if you don't even have a family you work 40 hours a week and then now if you do have a family you work 40 to 60 hours a week you might do something else so now you have to think about insurance you have to think about all these different things you have to think about oh, what if your kids get sick? Oh, you have to think about okay You have to all these different costs and how you're living where you're living how you get to places You can't afford certain things like there's certain luxuries You can't do because you're poor you might just have to take the bus because it's cheaper than buying yourself a car and having to

Cough up 200 hours to fix brakes out of your car You know what i'm saying? And it's like there's so many different avenues that being poor comes into that people don't really think about. And it's like when you start to think about this, you kind of understand why people stay in the same place that they're at. They don't have the luxury to say, I'm going to buy myself a $5,000 car when I have a family that I have to take care of so I can drive myself to a 40-minute job that pays better. Some people can't do that. You know what i mean you're saying it's basically like they're constantly one step behind and try not to fall

too so they can't ever get one step ahead in that way they're in a system where okay that's basically what it is so i want to capitalism i want to tie it well that's that's a conversation we could have too because and like just as a preview on that my thought is that and i get in trouble when i say this but that's how i feel i can say out of the same mouth that i believe capitalism is the best economic system in the world but also that it absolutely has flaws and also that there may be some flaws that aren't correctable, which is problematic What I don't like is when then people because they get pissed at that system and righteously so righteously So they then what do we talk about earlier like with the Democrat politicians in the cities?

So then the the argument is that oh you must just vote for the other side Same thing here when you then bring up like socialism to me I'll tell you you're out of your mind right so it kind of puts me in in in a dangerous territory because i i don't purely say one thing or the other and then people are like oh where the do you stand on it that's where i stand so take that as you will but anyway to bring all the the race theme and tie it back into the wealth gap, I think that the last decade in particularly has been – like even the beginning of that decade, so before a Trump or anything like that, has been the ultimate symbol of the wealth gap that grew over at that point – by that point close to 30 years, and now it's coming up on 40 years or whatever here where we have seen the anger start to come to the surface and it's coming a lot of different ways but obviously 0809 we had the big financial crisis and recession and not one single banker went to jail for that and they got bailed out and the rich stayed richer and

you know let's just call it what it is every single president since i don't know world war two before then i'm sure who compiles a lot of their cabinets regardless of party a lot of bankers yeah exactly right so that's never changed with anyone they're all at fault for that and even though we had that recession we've now now had, what, three presidents since then? And we can still say that. So I see these patterns, and I look back in 2010 into 2011. And in 2011, we saw two movements, political movements, form at the same time. It was Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party movement.

One was left. One was right. And I say that in such major air quotes and i'll explain why in a minute for the record i think that both of their ideas inherently don't work i'll stake my reputation that i think they're both wrong i think there's aspects of what they both say they're probably right right but like if they got every if one side got everything they wanted we'd have serious fucking problems. That movement was written off as, oh, these urban liberals who are lazy and don't want to get a job and talking about Occupy Wall Street.

And then on the right side with the Tea Party movement, oh, these Midwesterners who are absolutely stupid and have no idea what they're talking about even though their solutions were radically different they didn't realize that they were the same people and they let the media tell them otherwise because they had the same exact problems maybe different environments but the same problems they saw a world where things were getting automated they saw a world where they had been left behind and hadn't been acknowledged by any government let alone washington dc in decades they saw a world where they had been left behind and hadn't been acknowledged by any government, let alone Washington, D.C. in decades. They saw a world where the wealth gap was growing. They saw a world where, to use your words perfectly, which is a powerful few get the money and they hold on to it. And that's just how it stays. And they saw a world that was completely ignoring them at every single level. And they were screaming out for help. And I'll tell you

where their screams went. Their screams went into two individuals. And they were screaming out for help. And I'll tell you where their screams went. Their screams went into two individuals. And they were the two people that should have been the candidates in 2016 in the final runoff. In the final election, Democrat versus Republican. And that was Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump have very little in common besides the fact that they were both born in New York. And have a little bit of an issue with China. Right?

That's about where it ends. When it comes to their solutions. When it comes to them identifying the problems, they were speaking to the same fucking people, and they were answering all those fucking issues from 2011 that then obviously didn't get it. I mean, we had Mitt Romney running in 2012, who was like a Bain Capital, versus Obama,

who's more of an establishment Democrat, kind of same old in that way right so now you had these out there candidates and hillary clinton obviously kind of cheated her way in there with whatever and and then actually lost to trump who knows maybe sanders actually could have won but everyone then continued to draw the lines farther after that so then trump gets in and we continue now it's no longer occupying the Tea Party, but we continue to go left versus right and drive this bigger and bigger wedge,

bigger and bigger wedge online. You have to pick your tribe. And you know what? The other side's evil. The other side wants all this shit. The other side's going to ruin America. They're taking away our democracy. They're making us racist.

Whatever all the one-liners were. And to me, it is all the powerful people that you speak of, regardless of what race they are, and a lot of them are white. But just keep them as powerful people for a second. Keep race out of it for one second, and I'm going to bring it right back to race. They are all controlling these narratives. Because whether it be on TV, whether it be on the social platforms, whether it be fucking out in the street with other industries, I don't know. The same people run them and the same people don't give a fuck about those two factions and the people who maybe they weren't in the Occupy and Tea Party,

but they were pissed off too and they're in the bottom 99%. The 1% doesn't give a fuck about them. The 1% wants to distract from the fact that they're the 1% so that all the people don't come back to them and say, fuck you and rise up against them and stop that system that has had this huge wedge of a wealth gap over 30 or 40 years. So what's the best way to distract those people? You fucking divide them along certain lines and do the most controversial ones. Go to race. Go to something where there's also some truth to it as well and drive it deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and make the bottom 99% fight each other and hate each other so that they literally cancel each other out and quote-unquote in the game of life kill each other off in that way air quotes so that you

keep staying right there and your wealth gap keeps going exactly in the direction you want it to i concur that's it i've got you pulled a moose i don't you pulled a moose moose doesn't have what's pulling a moose what you just did i mean i just don't see why people can't see that. Because people choose. It's because people don't want to accept the fact that they're being played sometimes. People want to have faith. People want to have faith. People want to trust in the government.

People want to trust in society. People want to trust the churches. People want to trust everything. And it's just like at a certain point, you kind of have to see it for what it is. And it's like it's unfortunate, but it's like not everybody's a good person. And not everybody wants to play the role of helping people. It's why it's like for me, because I wanted to talk about religion because that's always important to me. But it's just always been like the biggest thing about religion for me is just like.

Are you religious, by the way? Yeah. I'm a Christian. I believe in God. Read the Bible for myself. But one of the biggest things I've realized is that the institutions that have been put in place for religion have done a very, very bad job of helping the individual and helping and helping people with their interpersonal relationships for me it's just always been a situation where it's like the church I'll be honest like this is something that me my girl always get

always debate over is like someone like Pastor Mike Todd who I would he um you know Lewis Holmes that that name sounds familiar but i don't want to say i do so think of so think of mike todd as like a black joel olstein but talk about relationship all the time okay what was the other guy lewis holmes yeah lewis holmes he makes his own he has his own podcast but he was on it i just thought you would know him but like so mike todd he he's a great guy don't get me wrong he's a pastor he. Don't get me wrong. He's a pastor. He loves God. But my biggest problem is that it has been what ends up happening is that you sell these people a dream, which is prosperity gospel. Like, okay, I'm going to teach you how to win at life or I'm going to teach you how to be the best Christian or what Mike Todd says.

I'm going to teach you how to win at relationships. And it's like you're not really teaching them anything that has to deal with interpersonal skills we're so focused with religion we're so focused nowadays on being yourself or living your truth or living how you are but you know for my religion it's just like just you're not following what the bible says like for example like i was listening to one of my mentors he's a pastor and i'm north jersey and he was explaining that like in j, he was telling people like, yo, like you need to be a good Christian and you need to learn how to forgive and you need to not be like very, you don't need to be angry. Like, don't be angry. People be a good person. Like do all these different things, be a Christian and forgive. We're not forgiving or we can't cut people off the way that we cut people off. But we do that

because we've been taught by a lot of these let me not say lower level people but like a lot of these major institutional people that tell us live your truth um i can do bad on myself cut people off if you have to like some people are not going to make to the top with you and the idea is that going to religion is that the idea of religion has never really been about living a truth. The idea has always, to me, has been about you creating a sense where a group of people believe in the same sense of morals to help push society forward. But what has happened with religion is that a lot of people who are at the top, who are supposed to be these leaders take the clout the money um whatever it is and they abuse it and it becomes a problem it's like you're pushing an agenda rather than pushing

what the message is supposed to be people get married to what they get with the agenda that supposedly got them there exactly and it's like we look at it it's like we look at it like the pastor drives a nice car but you know people in your church are still struggling you know what was it olstein left all the people outside during the hurricane exactly there's like 18 000 seats yeah yeah and it's like that's my thing it's like that guy no honestly like that guy no honestly and that's that's where and that's where i come from from where it's like you as a as a christian for me how I look at it is people automatically assume, yeah, the Bible is there for you to learn and be a better Christian. But as you look at the Bible and what it is, because the biggest idea of the Bible is how it's presently constructed. You're supposed to look at it and understand how you can work with god to manifest who he is as a person and for me

i'll break it down as best as i can um when you look at adam and eve right when we look at the story of adam and eve we look at it as a story oh adam ate the apple oh it was evil it was just that and a third but it was like the reality was never really in the fact of like hey god ate that like adam ate the apple the idea was whether it was the decision that adam and eve made and when you look at it from a standpoint of the decision not necessarily the the decision that they made the opportunity to make a decision that makes better than what i'm saying is better now when you have the opportunity to make a decision, that makes what I'm saying is better now. When you have the opportunity to make that decision, Adam and Eve didn't have to eat the apple. Eve didn't have to eat the apple, but they did.

And they made that choice. And now what happened was that you had this situation where God ended up working with these people to determine what was good and bad. God was continuing to work with these people to determine what was good and bad. And what God saw was because the apple was eaten, he gave us his decisions of either good and bad. People have consistently chose bad. And so what ends up happening now, he brings Jesus Christ and he gives us what we need to do. And we have to collectively, as these people, follow these morals to push society forward. And as you can see, is when you look at the bible and how it's constructed hey i'm going to give you these blessings or hey jesus did this jesus did that

right you kind of see that people kind of resort back to their old hating can can is it contempt contemptuous or whatever yeah contempt i guess something like that they're all contemptuous ways and as you can see the way society is is now, that's how we move. We've come from a loving society to a very individualistic society of how we are as a person, as people. And because of that, now it's like we need to find, and this is why I always, this is why like for me, it's like group think is bad this is why it's like we need to find a way to just be a morally good people because things like prosperity gospel is not going to teach you how to be a better person it's not going to make you the money you want because those things were never really important in the first place you know what i mean and can you okay now you finally lost me i was following it what do you mean what do you mean so prosperity gospel was the thing that

what's his face like does for example prosperity gospel yeah prosperity gospel is this is this type of preaching or what he treats oh right right okay where it's like yes hey i'm going to teach you how to do this and it's like they pick and choose certain things in the bible where it's like if you want to make it if you want to make it to the promised land you have to do this or you have to do that but the bible doesn't in my opinion the bible doesn't necessarily tell you what you have to do god no i got it yeah and so it's like what ends up happening with prosperity gospel is like people use prosperity gospel as this word of bond but it was never a word of bond because it's not coming from it's not it's not coming from a genuine place it's like for example when we talk about

what's the best way to put this i wish my friends were here because they could explain it better but it's like if we talk about get miles on the line no not even miles actually that's not even miles i have a friend who who reads the bible all the time he's just like but it's like i guess the best way to put it is like love your neighbor for example and it's like okay you need to love your neighbor um forgive but don't forget right but people don't tell you how to forgive and forget and it's like it's like people are like oh yeah forgive and forget and it's like you forgive you go end up being friends with that person but it's like you're not teaching people how to be wise and always remember certain things that happen to you because that's what the bible explains for you to do like when we talk about

choosing your wife hey choose your wife and do this this that and the third but it's like yo choose the right woman the bible tells you to choose the right woman and what's right yeah and what's right and so i mean i guess i guess the point is is that like the problem with prosperity gospel it's taught us so many different things of just consistently following god but with no action plan to do so and they pick and choose certain scriptures and they pick and choose certain things in the bible that follows a message that a pastor wants to preach but not following what god wants you to do and i think that that's the biggest problem because it's an interpretation thing too it is an interpretation thing like and i think people need to understand like what you're reading like people like people don't understand that no it's not even that it's like think about it's like what people don't understand

is like i always use this example all the time People don't know that there's 14 letters to the town of Corinth that was written by, I think it was Paul or Peter. It's not just 1 and 2 Corinthians. There's 14 letters to Corinthians. I didn't know that. Yeah, people don't know that. You know what I mean? And it's like, oh, this is one they just do at all the weddings, like Corinthians 4.13. Yeah.

That's what it is. And it's like people don't really know that. people understand that the bible is constructed in such a in a certain way so it's like when people look at it like that it's like oh yeah it's like genesis is there because it's the beginning but it's not it's it's not it's constructed that way for a reason and i think that once people understand that and i think that when we look at like everything we start to look at how everything else gets affected like when we look at what morally we're supposed to do morally be a good person things like group think doesn't happen anymore like situations like politics doesn't happen anymore you know um i feel like i'm rambling now but you know no i like where you

just brought this i love where you just brought this actually because you're you're now looking at a world that cynically can't exist because there are not enough like there are a lot of smart people in this world a lot of intellectually smart people in this world but what are there seven and a half billion people yeah there are people in this world that are not smart it is a fact of life i don't know what the number is maybe it's a billion maybe it's two billion but there's people who – there's not a hell of a lot going on up there for whatever reason. And when you have that, you are automatically having a subsegment of the global population that is psychologically and neurologically and IQ-wise more likely to follow along with a given standard to say nothing of by the way all the intellectually brilliant people who psychologically fall into that trap exactly

you know so you keep saying religion and organized religion i don't disagree with you at all because like talk about something like the bible or the quran or the torah or whatever the the buddha book is i'm gonna get canceled for, but you understand what I mean. No disrespect. You know, what do all these books or scriptures or whatever have in common? Be a good fucking person. Well, sure, and that's a positive way of looking at it. Let me look at a more negative.

It's not negative. It's just a fact. They're all written by a person. They weren't written by god whoever god is regard depending on which religion we're talking about you know so what what does every person have in common we have flaws we misremember things we don't know things we say things that are opinion and injected as if it's fact all these things happen so now you fast forward to what you're talking about with all the preachers across respective religions and how they they then interpret and put it out there that's what it takes with religion religion doesn't just exist

on it on its own it exists by the people who take it and interpret it and are the thought leaders in expressing opinions publicly for then more people to follow those leaders that's how you get a joel austin for example or whatever and then some of the guys you brought up what was it louis holmes or louis holmes isn't a pastor he's a he he's he's a podcaster okay all right well whatever so you get my drift so i don't see any difference between that and culture though why so not what you think i just said. Put it that way. Okay. Let's say – who's a really positive person in culture? Maybe a motivational speaker or something. Give me an example. Eric Thomas. Okay. All right. That's a great example. I love Eric Thomas. Yeah, he's great. And that's just a great example because I happen to watch a lot of his stuff and listen to him and seen some of his story.

And I think Eric Thomas is legitimately a very good person who kind of really walks the talk of what he says and his life has expressed that. Even with that said, Eric Thomas, in a positive way in this light, leads a cult. He leads some sort of a cult of people and this is where it's a pot and cult is a negative word and that's why you're reacting like that no no it was interesting that you said it like that nobody goes just follow me on this okay he leads what i would consider a positive cult because people that follow him and legitimately listen to him over time eventually inject just just subconsciously into their i gotta want it more than i breathe right you gotta want it more than you breathe

and and lines like this like you gotta move you gotta step back to move forward like all this stuff and it's positive in this way people could say the same thing about like a david goggins and stuff like that you know and it becomes a part of who you are because this person repeated it repeated it repeated it from their own experience and beat it into you. That's true. And in this case, a good thing. A lot of times, a person can be coming from a place of pretending it's a good thing to beat something into you. And it turns out to not be such a good thing because they're full of shit.

And like what's an extreme example, like way over the top example? Jim Jones with the Jonestown Massacre. He convinced all these people to kill themselves. Do I think all those people wanted to kill themselves? No. Do I think that they were bad people? Do I think they were all dumb? No.

No. They were driven there through repetition over and over and over and over again. And so with all the negativity of organized religion over time, we can then draw – this is why I say culture – we can draw across culture examples of where ideologies, whether they be personal betterment or politics or social opinions or whatever, get repeated and repeated and repeated by thought leaders who then create all these cults of people that then create your groupthink and don't question what they're actually thinking because they're not actually thinking. I hurt my head on that. I'm sorry. No, that's a very interesting way of thinking about it. I didn't think about it like that. I guess when you put it in a perspective of people of morals, you do bring up a good point. Because ideally, that's why I was saying that the common theme between all these things would be a good person. And for me, I think that's where the line falls in religion.

For me, what I've started to understand is that one needs to believe in something bigger than yourself, you know? So you are right. You are right in a sense of like, you are right in a sense of to an extent, yeah, religion isn't really the biggest thing that's needed in terms of creating a moral compass. But for what happens with people is part of being a good person is also knowing how to be humble. And I think that in a lot of times with religion, religion keeps that humility there. Because like, for example, when we look at Christianity, you talk about the fear of God, you know what I'm saying? And it's not from a, it's not from a fear of like, oh my gosh, I'm going to die.

But it's like, it's fear of like, yo, like this guy can do so much. Like you don't even know, like, you just don't know. Who are you? Yeah. Like, and it's like a fear of like, okay, just like, just be humble and don't think that you're better than somebody or better than something, you know? And so having that sense of believing in something bigger than yourself keeps you humble.

Because I think that when you go out of it, like part of, you can have all these morals, right? And what ends up happening is that you kind of fall into a stereotype. Oh yeah, like I have all these morals. I'm such a morally great person. It's that and the third. And it's like, you caught in your head gets big, you know? And you don't want that. And I think that that's part of the reason why for me religion is important because for me i do get a big head sometimes i'll use my personal example i do have

a big head sometimes because sometimes i am i think a lot like i could tell like we're the type of people that we think a lot but for me what ends up happening is that what i've what i've come across is that a lot of people don't really think like me so i can't really like when my head gets really big when i really question people about who they are and what they what they like what they believe in it becomes a situation where it's like i actually need to find something to humble me and that's where part of that's where religion comes in for me because it's like i can only know so much right and i use i use this example um in the book of job um after job after job complains to god about everything that's happened god comes down to me like yo like do you understand like what i've done like were you here when i created the

earth were you here when i created this where are you here when i created the earth? Were you here when I created this? Were you here when I created that? And he explains to him, like, yo, like, I did all these different things. Were you here? Do you know why I did this? And he said no, and that's where Job humbled himself because he got arrogant because essentially some things happened. And the idea was that because Job didn't know, he was – he ended up becoming very, very humble. Like, yo, like, I didn't know. was he ended up becoming very very humble like yo like I didn't know I'm sorry I apologize and that's what I think people need whether it may not even just be religion but you just need to be humble because it's like yeah that's just really what it is and

I think that yeah just being humble is is the biggest thing for me and I don't think like a lot of Christians actually look at it like that like we look at situations where it's like we like i always say we because i'm a christian myself but it's like christians always have a tendency to put themselves in situations and put themselves in the middle of it and always have to they always feel like they have to over puff their chest as the morally right christian and there's no such thing as a morally right christian you're just a christian it's like we look at the little nas x situation like you guys are upset with little not this up yeah like you're happy about low nas x and we talked about i talked to miles about this miles and shane about this and it's like the the the biggest thing is that you guys you like and this is where the whole media thing comes into play too it's like for example

we a lot of people don't know that Lucifer and Satan are two completely different people. Wait, what? Lucifer and Satan are two completely different people. I don't think I know that. Yeah, like, Satan is, going back to the story of Job, Satan was first introduced in the story of Job. Satan wasn't lucifer lucifer is an angel that fell from heaven because yeah but satan is a guy that came to talk to god in the beginning of job about job and he accused job of not being a true believer of god so as a result god took all of job's riches to prove, to see if what Satan was saying was correct.

When you look at what Satan means, Satan is actually interpreted as the accused, I think in Hebrew. Or the accuser, I mean. So who the hell is this guy? Where did he go? Who, Satan? Yeah. That's the thing, though. Satan is a representation of anybody.

Satan can be anybody. So who was he? Like he just walked in and talked to God? He was having a meeting with a bunch of people essentially he was talking like it wasn't just him but it was just a bunch of different people he was talking God was talking with a bunch of different groups of people and then Satan came and said this about Job this happened so what makes it does that make any difference that they were two different people it does because why why that for me not even looking at the Lil Nas X situation,

but just looking at it from a standpoint of being a proper Christian is like Satan. The idea of Satan for me is like anybody can be Satan because Satan means the accuser. So you can be the Satan in your life. Your mom can be Satan. Your dad can be Satan. I can be Lucifer though too. No. No? No, Lucifer is a specific person. Lucifer is a, Lucifer can be Satan. Your dad can be Satan. I can be Lucifer, though, too. No. No?

No, Lucifer is a specific person. Lucifer can be Satan, but Satan doesn't always have to be Lucifer. Lucifer is an angel that fell from heaven. Yeah, he's like the fucking devil. Yeah, who became the devil, or the interpretation of the devil. And so, in a lot of times... I'm so confused right now. But keep going so like lucifer fell from

from heaven because he wanted to he wanted to be whatever he wanted to be and so as a result of that he is known as the devil he's known as satan just because of how media has presented it it's not because of the fact he really has to be satan he's just lucifer is just always known as same because lucifer is the devil okay and where did you start that with because i got so focused on trying to figure out those two people or two differences um i don't even remember my mind's it's not a mind it's not really a mind it's just thinking about it as like no i just mean like we're we're going so deep on some on some shit here oh yeah where we started you know people people don't that's my thing i forgot we started too that's the thing people don't think about shit like this and that that's my biggest thing like when you think and you read you

understand the bs that people tell you and that's why it's like for me it's not even about reading your bible just read bro like all this stuff you can find somewhere like i shouldn't have to see politicians from texas saying that low nas x is this or people just talking about satan as if like you know who he is like the fact that you're talking about satan and the way that you're talking about low nas s makes you satan right now you get what i'm saying and people and people just don't understand that and that's just it is what it is man yeah i'm gonna have to think about this some more because i'm gonna have to listen to that a few times to truly get it i i understand what you're saying though because you're you're making the

separation of it's not just okay they're two different people but lucifer is this deity who's a bad deity whereas satanism is or satan is something that we can all project because it's an idea essentially essentially that's the best way to put it in the store in the story in the story he was a person but he didn't have an identity and the whole point of that was so this is what i love i love talking i love talking about sorry real quick for i love talking about the bible just because of the fact of like when you really read it it's the first time this really happened on this podcast yeah because people don't because people don't read it and it's like when you sit down and you read it and you actually pay attention to what's being said and you

actually listen to other people who know what they're talking about the bible it makes so much sense and it makes the bible so much more fun because like yo like this is ridiculous so it's like looking at like the story of job the job is a part of like this this whole this this literature series called what the guys i listen to call The Wisdom Books. It's Job, it's Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, and there's one more. It might be... I said Ecclesiastes, right?

Yes, I did. Ecclesiastes, Job, Proverbs. It might be... Why can I think about this? Wisdom Books, Wisdom Books. Sorry, give me a second. Wisdom Books. this um wisdom books wisdom books sorry give me a second wisdom it's songs of solomon i was right songs of solomon yeah so so basically so basically they each teach you something in a certain way so when you look at when you look at job the idea of job was job was suffering and he was

trying to figure out why he was suffering he talked to three different types he talked to i think six different types of people who explained to him that you had to do that you did something for you to suffer or you weren't doing enough or someone just wanted something to happen to you and so the whole point of job was to explain that yo yo, like, we don't, you don't know. I got it. Like, the whole idea is like, you suffer, but we don't know why we suffer. But we just have to believe in God for us to understand that. Okay.

So when we look at. And then what was the context you were bringing up Lil Nas X in? So the reason why I brought up Lil Nas X was because people were like, oh, my gosh, they were looking at Satanism. Satanism is so bad. Satan is the devil. Does that in the third. And that's where I was bringing that up from. Oh, because you're like, you're calling it the wrong, you're looking for something else

and you're calling it what you don't think you are. Yeah, basically. Okay. All right. Well, on that though, because now at least there's a definition there. Let's call it Lucifer, right? In that way, because he was, you know was doing a pole dance down to Lucifer. I try to stay here with this stuff.

And when we're talking about strictly pop culture stuff where somebody takes an artistic – a celebrity takes an artistic take on something, I try to not give too much of a fuck. And I haven't given that much of a fuck about this situation. I haven't really talked about it with people, you know i saw the music video montero and this whole thing and to me it's just a typical a typical celebrity going for some shock and awe on something which he did successfully great job and doing a take that's going to be controversial that's going to create tribes that then creates attention okay fine the other side of it though goes back to what i was saying maybe 20 30 minutes ago which is where we have culture cult leaders right and so essentially you get all these people who are like team little nas x

and then all the anti team little nas x and they all listen to their echo chambers of like Lil Nas is a satan worshiper and he thinks all this stuff and you know that then he I mean it was really stupid doing like the human blood on the sneaker that was so fucking stupid but that aside like just focus on Montero for a second like now it's now it has it where Lil Nas X is supposedly the leader of this movement because then he's just playing right into it right it drives the eyeballs it's like capitalism driving it right to him and so now all these people start to believe that like oh all these ideas we have about this video and what it says about luciferism is actually you know it's like culturally cool man because it

doesn't conform and then the other people are like no it's the devil whatever whatever whatever and we create even two bigger factions out of that over time. And now people may adopt ideas that they don't actually have in one way or the other. So I look at it like, oh, why can't people just like call it a fucking music video and move on? But I know society doesn't really do that. It's because people don't even know what the fuck they're looking at. Like if you look at the music video, basically that's why that's why i made the distinction of satan and lucifer like when you look at the music video there was a reason why lil nas x was an angel he was standing he was

standing like he was on trial which which he said was a spongebob reference but we're not gonna talk about that but and he fell down to earth and the idea ended up being like he like he was lucifer that's why it's like i i was upset when people try oh he believes in satanism yada yada yada when he made the shoes and stuff like that it made me upset because it's like y'all not even like y'all not even misquoting the bible properly and that's what makes me upset it's like if you're gonna misquote something at least misquote it properly and it's like what does that mean i don't know but it's just like it just made me upset because like yo you're like you're not even doing this properly like satanism satanism is completely different when you look at when you look at lucifer low not x in a music video was

lucifer it was like you were this person fell pole danced pole danced, pole danced down, you know, you get it. But it's like it's you became Lucifer. It's the idea of what happened to Lucifer. And it's funny because it directly it was a direct correlation of how people looked at Lil Nas X. Because look at it. He was this type of person. People liked him. It was a nice music video next thing you know his ascension to hell i guess in a music video was the same way that people kind of just labeled him lucifer labeled him this bad thing

because he came out as gay but they did that yeah a lot of people did why wait i must have missed that i thought he was like i mean people came people came crazy at him because he ended up being gay because they're like oh you're you, oh, you're a leader for these kids. You can't be coming out as gay. You're this, that, and the third. What? Yeah, it happened. I know that there's like some old school like Bible thumpers or something who are like, oh, this isn't natural and normal.

I've always come to expect that, but I didn't know that was like a loud thing. I thought it was mostly like, oh, that was little naz came out and and we're all celebrating that i must have missed that i mean our age group did but a lot of a lot of people that are older than us or some people that you know the the foot washers yeah this is the one the foot washers what's a foot washer foot washing baptists that's the thing man that's what drives the wedge that's why we can't get to a place where where things like that are a nothing burger in a good way i mean that like someone should live their life however the fuck they want to live their life we live in a free society there's nothing wrong with with being gay in any way that should be at this point like that's what i don't

get why there are still people who make it their hill to die on to define how people who live nowhere near them in many cases and nothing like them and are from totally different environments should therefore live their life when they're interpreting something like the bible which is supposed to say like be humble and love all love all people but then they directly interpret it and say oh like shit like that is I don't get it. I don't get it either, but the question I've always asked is this. When is the sin intolerable? Is the sin intolerable when they're worshiping God, or is the sin intolerable because you don't like it? Ooh, that is not what I thought you were saying. I thought I was going to have to come back at that. Okay. Think about it. If Lil like if luna's ex was a

praise and worship leader in church and he was gay would you be upset with him when he's leading praise and worship that he's gay does it matter then or does it matter if his boyfriend was sitting next to him in church oh fuck like and it's the same thing with that like to you and me it doesn't matter but yeah you know like I guess you're looking at it from the perspective of the people who are casting the judgment. Yeah, it's like, so it's like, people, Christians don't mind. And this is why I said, like, the whole humility aspect has to come in, right? Christians always over-assert themselves, and then they get mad when people come crazy at them because they don't know how to read a room. And it's like you do this, but it's like you're upset with Lil Nas X, but you're not upset with the gay person in your church because he's at church. You're not upset with the alcohol.

He's conforming. Oh, he's conforming. Yeah. I have plenty of stories about that. You have the alcoholic who's in church right now. You're okay with him. But when he's out being drunk on the street, then you don't like him. You have the prostitute, you're fine with her now because it's a Sunday, she's in church, her legs are closed,

but the moment Sunday night hits and you see her out on the street, now all of a sudden it's a problem. And that's where my problem has always came in. It's never been about people are sinning, but when do people and when do christians feel comfortable with tolerating sin because at the end of the day you can't be upset with somebody because they sin differently than you it's also subjective though too it is like like the people you're talking about like the bout christians view i won't speak for all of them but they view being gay as sin i sure as shit don't view that i don't know why exactly so what so how do you even define it because half their definitions i think are pretty fucked it's not it's because the fact that this is where and this is what i

mean this is what this is where i mean when i say like a lot of these different like a lot of these different pastors and all these different types of denominations have created so many different definitions and they've essentially fucked people over it's like i say this all the time like granted it's a big stereotype but most of the things that most religious talks about most christians talk about is sex that's it it's sex they barely talk about forgiveness it's about but let let them find out that two two teenagers are fucking in the in the in the in the closet oh my gosh it's gonna be this big thing and it's like my thing is that as somebody who believes in i make jokes about

this because it's like i i've seen i've seen the bullshit and it's like for me it's like you're upset because two kids are being teenagers. Granted, I'm not saying what they're doing is right. But what I'm saying is you're upset because they're being teenagers. So how do you plan on solving this as a church? Do you just say, okay, sex is wrong? Okay, shame them. You shame them up until it's time for them to get married.

And you expect them to just be okay in their relationship with their husband or wife having sex it's like i'm attacking i'm going crazy today like look catholicism it's like catholicism has essentially are you catholic well i mean like i grew up catholic i haven't been to church since the vietnam war ended so i don't really care but okay i'm not an organized religion guy i'm a big not fan of it. Okay. All right. Awesome. So for Catholicism, I look at the situation and it's like, you guys shame women into not having sex. And then miraculously, they're supposed to pop out kids. The men are being told in most cases, oh, try to control yourselves. Try to control yourselves. We understand you can't control it.

And it's the way that you talk to these people. It's the way that they're going gonna interact with people when they're in relationships When a guy with a Catholic if a Catholic guy and a Catholic girl gets together They're gonna have a terrible sexual relationship if most if if they follow But you know it becomes a situation where it's like if they follow that nonsense it becomes it's it's nonsense and what happened we are animals dude animals fuck it's what we do that's it and it's like don't get me wrong you do everything within context and you do everything within reason but it's like for you to now and this is where i this is where i say i agree

with women once again it's like you're not gonna sit here and tell a woman for 15 20 25 years of her life sex is wrong don't open your legs don't have sex with nobody and then now all of a sudden you expect her to be whip them open baby whip them open when she's married to her husband essentially at that point if you want me to be honest it's damn near sexual abuse this damn near sexual abuse i do not disagree and i see people get brainwashed by that like oh no that's just the way it's supposed to be no that's why it's right like there are still people like that and i'm like you you are you have absolutely no ability to think for your own goddamn self and your own body like i lose i look let me be careful how I say this. When people have their beliefs,

and in that case, they subscribe to what their religion tells them, I respect their right to do that. And I respect their honesty in saying that. Yeah. I think they're out of their fucking mind. I do. Because I'm like, in my head, and I'm making a little bit of an assumption here,

maybe they have really thought about it, and that's what they really believe. And so if that's the case, okay, more power to them. I just disagree. But a lot of them, they never thought about it. that's just how they were told things are supposed to go so they follow it and it's like okay so you've never considered what you want you've never considered what your real urges are and to me i i don't fucking get that i it's it's easier that way like for me it's like it's always it's crazy because it's always been harder for me to just follow things because i always want to know

i'm the type of person i need to understand why i'm doing something yep if i don't understand why i'm doing it's never going to make sense to me like and for me it's like for for some like like it's just been so many different things where it's like okay looking at religion it's like okay just do this this and this but it's like why am i doing this and that's part of the reason why i want to go look and i was like you know what yo i should read the bible by myself nobody fucking tell me make your own mind yeah like and it's not to say like there's some things i don't agree with there's things that i agree with there's certain things i look at and it's like when you start to look at it and you read that

stuff for yourself that's how you start to understand things that's when you start to you're able to bring things in context it's like i can talk about i can talk about the bible in a certain way because i have mentors that talk about that stuff i have i have videos that i watch i have podcasts that i listen to about it and it's like I'm able to understand this From a different type of context I can quote things about discrimination Racism all that stuff In the bible because it's there because I read it

People who don't read the bible wouldn't be able to understand that And it's like when you look at the Torah It's the same thing like when you understand What the Torah is about When you understand all these different things Because the Torah is in the bible as well You understand what the hell you about, when you understand all these different things, because the Torah is in the Bible as well. You understand what the hell you're reading, and you understand what it is, and you're able to make these decisions for yourself. The Bible helps you think for yourself.

You just tied it all back together again. I don't know if you know if you did it, but you just said, I read the Bible for myself, and people who do that can make their – are supposedly able to make their own interpretations like you did. Good for you, which is exactly what you should do. That's our problem in society too. People don't read – they read the headline. They read what is fed to them. They don't – it's what you said earlier. They don't read what's within it.

They don't consider where it's coming from. They just say, oh, I guess that's the way things are. It's all full circle we have all the same flaws as human across as humans across the board across culture with every single thing it's applicable to whether it's something like religion and trying to understand that and how it's taught or something like how we're actually informed on what's going on in our world that is true yeah i just yeah it is what it is like i don't got no much more to say on that it's just at the end of the day i really just hope people pay attention i just it's it's it's just always been saddening to me that it's just like people don't really pay attention the way that they need

to pay attention and people don't really look at things for what how they need to look at it people don't people don't really self-reflect upon themselves people just kind of do things and then when they're 30 40 they realize that they're really unhappy with themselves oh my god and it's just like i i know that at the end of the day that let's say for example like if i didn't want to go to law school if i didn't want to be a photographer i didn't want to be an artist and i just did it until i was 30 at least i knew that i made the conscious decision back when i was like 18 19 i was like yeah i want to be a lawyer and yeah i want to be an artist like at least i made that conscious decision like you know what maybe that wasn't a bright idea but at least i did it with the thought of doing something

that's a fear man it's it's it's a fear that some of us have i wish more people had it. It's a big fear of mine. And to define it exactly, I fear waking up in midlife, 45, 50, and wanting things that now are not because I have other responsibilities to other people that are now not necessarily attainable. I don't have my youth like I did, though by then, who the fuck knows with Elon Musk and all this shit and Neuralink and all that. But don't want to count on that right i don't want to look back and be like you know i really knew i should have tried that or should have did this or should have just bit the bullet and like seen with this it didn't have to go right just had to know like okay that's not the way to go even just to eliminate something my fear is looking back at that age and being able to say shit i didn't do that yeah and there are a lot of people who you know they they follow the and i've talked about this before on this podcast probably the third or fourth time this has come up but they follow that plan they follow

that society says i'm supposed to do this so i do this society says i'm supposed to do that so i do that after this comes that after that comes this oh because everyone else is saying this i need to say that right yeah i love how it's all tied back to religion in this one because it's the same psychology it is it's the same psychology if people like i want people to think and lean on whatever they want to if someone's a buddhist and they really believe in that shit i want them to do it and we live it we well some of our world is free as all of it should be where people can do that you know and if someone's a a christian or a muslim or whatever same thing want them to be able to do it where i draw the line is when people are hostage to ideologies that they don't even realize they're hostage to it's like it's like the idea that there are people who are so far behind in the fucking race that they actually

think they're winning and we got a lot of those people in the world and what makes it even worse with that is they they kind of use they kind of use certain ideologies to kind of mask what they're really dealing with i know people i've experienced people i've seen people kind of bypass what they're dealing with and use um religion or use certain ideologies as as something to bypass you know what their true feelings are or you know really deal with what's going on basically you're using you're basically using religion like you're using drugs you know what i'm saying in the sense of like you're trying to numb pain and it's like you can't at a certain point pain comes up like just because you're hiding it in one place doesn't necessarily mean it's not going to show up somewhere else and i think that that's that that's another reason why i get i i was actually very

critical of religion i almost stopped being christian because of it because it was just like i was tired of seeing people like i said growing up as a growing up african and seeing how nigeria looks and just seeing the fact of like churches will be super filled people will give money to churches but it's like you guys still live miserable like it was disgusting to me it's like you guys are negating the fact that you know your politicians take all your money the churches churches take your money, but you guys are still giving freely. And it irritated me because it's like, you guys are some of the smartest people in the continent, but you guys don't know how to figure it out.

But when it comes to religion, you can never talk against God. You can never challenge that. You can never challenge any of these things. And it just pissed me off. And it was like, yo, it was the same thing coming here going to a nigerian american church with people who have phds who are doctors nurses all these different things like now you're telling me bullshit that now you're telling me bullshit that yo like doesn't even make sense to me and it was just like at a certain point it's like yo you're supposed to be smart

yeah like and it's not even a sense of because you have a phd because you've read books like you've read yeah and at least the common like the common knowledge would be huh if if you're a doctor and if a rare disease could happen to you you could at least say yo there's a lot of different possibilities in this world i should be able to keep my fucking mind open to understand other things could potentially happen yeah and if you can't do that that's a problem that's always been my problem it's like people just need to understand that it doesn't it's not that difficult to keep your mind open to another possibility but people never ever ever ever want to have that emotional space for that and then they always end up looking like a deer in headlights when that same shit happens and then it's like yo

like someone like me who will tell you that it's like yo like i told you this was gonna happen and you get mad at me for being that i told you so guy and it's like i didn't want to be the i told you so guy but it's like keep your mind open to different possibilities you know what i'm saying and it's like you you can't just continue to move in a certain space just because you're comfortable. You can't just continue to say, oh yeah, well, God said this. And the only reason why this is happening to me is because God said, this isn't good in the Bible. So this is clear to reason. No, you could just be dealing with some traumatic experiences, sweetheart, or you could just be dealing with some traumatic

experiences from the loss of something, my good friend always keep that in mind and if you can't you don't grow no and and that's the thing for me it's like i can't like it's weird to me it's like i just can't continue to be stagnant as a person anymore like i'm almost like i'm turning 27 this year like i'm almost 30 like i'm at a point now where it's like i need to get into a habit of continuously trying to be the best version of myself every single day because once you hit 30 you hit that phase like yeah this is how i am i don't want to be that i want to continuously be clay that can be molded into something else continuously in order to do that you have to have that communication we talked about though that is true and when you look at

and i'm stereotyping but it's it's also a part of the rule. Not the whole thing, but it's a part of the rule with religion. When you go through and you see videos of pastors talking or, you know, go look at the bio of a preacher or somebody who's like spreading the word or whatever. And I'm painting with a broad brush. I'm giving a little bit of a generalization. There are people who are not like this, so just take that at face value. But you see people who are constantly talking about spreading that word and like, oh, you know, Jesus Christ saved me or like, you know, praise Allah or whatever. And then you see them expressing it to people who are looking to be

saved or looking to believe. And one thing these videos never have to me is a new record they're the same type of broken record they're saying the same types of things to people which by the way some of it doesn't mean it's wrong it's just they're saying the same blanket statements to everyone else and all those people in there who are looking to be saved or looking to be helped they're all individual people they all have different environments and different problems and what do they need more than anything in the world? They need what we have today, which is we have headphones with our voices going right into our ears so that we can hear each other. It's a conversation. We both talk. We both go back and forth. We go on monologues, but we're communicating. And you're expressing your opinion

and your problems or your concerns. I'm doing the same from my end. And so people, when they go to these places and they're looking to be saved, what they really want is someone to listen, to understand, to see if they could possibly truly understand their problem and figure out a way through, in this case, maybe their ideology, their religion, to help them solve that. And instead what they get is the same blanket statement going, you know, I'm using the Christian example right now, power of Christ compels you, baptize yourself, turn to the face of God, jesus will save and they say all the same things over and over again and what does that what are those words really do for that person other than oh if i just keep repeating this to myself maybe my problems will poof magically go away and it's funny because that's that's the biggest thing once again with

prosperity gospel it's like you're teaching these people that in order for them to get out of their problems they have to do something or god has to be this or god has to be this and it's like the the reality is that when you when you study when you study the bible and you study you when you look at the stories in the bible a lot of people don't realize that a lot of these people are already doing something that they really weren't supposed to be doing or a lot of these like we look at samson like not for nothing samson was slaying hoes oh yeah slaying hoes yeah yeah and and that's my thing it's like you're telling me that oh you have to be this special type of person you have to be the apple of god's eye you have to

do these different things and it's like that's not how religion is or that's not how like even if you don't believe in god the concept of it is you can't you're not you there's no need for you to be completely perfect for you to complete a purpose and i think that's and that's why i get so upset when people talk about certain things in certain ways it's like people talk about let me see here in fact i don't even talk about women no more but the idea is that the idea is that people idea is that people choose to ignore the fact that God came and met a lot of people where they were at. They either met them where they were at or he took them from a particular experience and put them in a particular situation to teach people something. Was it Daniel? Yeah, I think it was Daniel.

Daniel got his whole family killed. He watched his whole family get killed house get burned down put him in the same in the same organization the same kingdom that killed his family i believe so but what was that last daniel put him in the same situation put him in the same put him in the same kingdom that killed his family he put him in the same kingdom so he made family. He put him in the same kingdom that killed him? Oh, so he made him like a resident? Not a resident, but like he was basically in the king's court. He's basically helping the king. Oh, so he made him do that.

Yeah. Not necessarily made, but like the way his life ended up being. Made him uncomfortable. Yeah. And the idea is that you learn that you're dealing with trauma. God met you in a situation where you went through a traumatic experience and you just made it more traumatic but you having to see these people that made that situation traumatic for you face the demons yeah and it's like you're facing your demons at that point and you and daniel still managed to be a great man of god and for me

looking at that situation it's like when you look at these super hyper christians they don't look at it like that no they look at it as oh daniel daniel lost and he he he followed god he loved god he loved no like like no let's be real let's be real sis like let's be real let's be real dude like this dude lost shit it's like we look at the bible it's like oh my gosh we love god he's the lamb of god but y'all forgot God is the Lion of Judah. Like, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. You know how many towns this dude, yo, God was like, yo, this is... This is a bad motherfucker. No, like, this is what I'm saying.

It's like, yo, look at this. It's like, God was like, yo, all right, y'all don't want to listen? All right, cool. Boom, bye. Bat. Next. Oh, y'all don't want to listen either? All right, cool.

Boom, bye. Like, people forget that type of God. And we continue to sit here and live in a society where it's like we're preaching the good side of God, where people have this super positive bypassing, where it's like, oh my gosh, God's this great person. And he is. But don't get it twisted. He can be that nurturing person, but he's also that dude that will smack you in your mouth you do something stupid and that's why i that's why i that's why it's like we can relate to this

because it's like i don't look at it as strictly just god is just this line of judah soft it's not he's not he's not just that he's the he can be the lamb of god but he's also the line of judah and i think people and a lot of christians seem to get i always speak about christians because i'm a christian myself but like i got it like a lot of people don't really look at it like that people can't into insults and injury a lot of a lot of christians can't sit down with a lot of people from different points of view and have that conversation you can't most people can't have a conversation with an atheist i've had a conversation with atheists before wasn't that bad it wasn't that bad the only thing they have the audacity to think is that like you know i think it just kind of ends when we're done there's nothing that's the thing

like they like the communities religious communities will they'll judge something like that and it's like what so so how do you know like like just so someone thinks something differently you you don't have to agree with them but like who what the fuck gives you the right to say no no no listen listen i talked to this god guy like trust me trust me that's how it is other people have a different experience they have a different belief shouldn't be anything wrong with that and that's the biggest thing like one of my one of my biggest things for my what was interesting to me is that my mentor he had an atheist and he was like a leader of like some atheist organization like around his church he went to his church he went to his church and he was there and when he

the guy died he spoke at his funeral to eat like think about that great you're up and you you see what i mean great you're a pastor great you're a pastor and you spoke at a funeral full of atheists yep and they listen to you yep and my thing is that imagine now and this i'm not saying he's the greatest person but it's like what i love about my mentor specifically or like it's it's it's beautiful that you can talk to somebody have an open mind collectively take an opposing point of view internalize that understand why they think that way and make your belief stronger not even because of the fact of his religion religion or being being atheist just the fact of if you're a republican i'm a democrat you tell me everything that you need to tell me as to why you hate democrats i internalize it and that just makes me want to be a better democrat

that is all you need none of those people do that and that's the thing people get offended i don't know any republicans that think it's like not a sin against god to vote democrat i don't know any Republicans that think it's not a sin against God to vote Democrat. I don't know any Democrats that... I shouldn't say I don't know any, but I know very few on both sides who don't think it's absolutely pure insanity, in that case, from the Democrat side, to vote Republican. And this is why we have these problems. And look, you brought in some serious circles. I love culture, you know, because culture encompasses everything.

And you brought in the 360 degrees of culture today. And there were a few things you said in the last 10 minutes that if I went to, we'd be going for like two more hours. So this is a to be continued down the line. We're going to leave people wanting some more. But Moose, I love this, man. You bring the hot topics. You're like, I've had a few guests like you. I mean, they're all all different but who aren't

afraid to go with the issues and just say fuck it here's what i think take it or leave it like let's talk about it and that's that's the best part about doing this because then it makes my mind a cyclone during the fact and after the fact and keeps my mind open to like well maybe maybe it's this way or oh maybe maybe it's that way and if more people could do that and like i i hope the people who listen to the show and watch the show on youtube you know take way and if more people could do that and like i i hope the people who listen to the show and watch the show on youtube you know take that attitude if more people are just like hey you know let's just hear what what everything is put the cards on the table and over time i'll get some sort of a system that makes me think like okay i'm comfortable here i'm comfortable here

here here here and judge for yourself like that's all we want we don't want like i don't want any kind of echo chamber here of like what I say or what my guests say going. Like, you know, and conversations like this, if somebody sits here and agrees with everything we just said

or you said or I said, you know, they're out of their mind. It's just, there's way too much there. So, listen, man, loved it. Thank you for doing it. Yo, thank you for having me. I like this a lot. I like when people,

I like when people think differently. I like different thinkers, and I like people that think outside the box. And I think that you're one of those types of people who think outside the box. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, honestly. Thank you, man. And thank you for that compliment. That's one of the best things I could possibly get from your seat.

So I really, really appreciate that. No doubt. All right, we'll do it again, all right? Definitely. Everybody else, give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Peace.

Peace.