Julian Dorey Podcast - #49 - Taylor Ringold: Barstool & Relatability; Clubhouse App Slowdown Debate; "Building Off Zero"; The Reopening of NYC

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Taylor Ringold is a Podcaster & Producer. Currently he hosts the “End of The Bench Podcast” and works at WFAN in New York City. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 7:03 - What happened at the Next Gen Summit in 2019; “The Robbery” 20:58 - Modern media and the hard move to online media dominance; Barstool Sports & Relatability; What WFAN hosts are like; Fluidity of conversation 37:24 -Taylor’s time with Minnesota Twins; The backstabbing nature of old school media work 54:24 - Athletes & Politics; “Headline readers” 1:06:34 - The state of the Clubhouse app and why it has faded; Fake motivational speakers; Youngest Generation & social media adoption history; 1:37:28 - Building something “off zero”; The sports media industry and the Covid Pandemic 1:52:53 - Betting on yourself; Being Present; Putting yourself out there and negative reactions 2:10:56 - “The market is the arbiter of truth”; The fine line between criticism & hate; The emphasis on quality content 2:26:20 - Easier to get down on yourself during the Pandemic?; Taylor recalls when New York City first shut down due to Covid; Julian talks about his experience visiting New York in the Winter; NYC starting to boom again? 2:37:51 - Discussing the vaccine and its role in society returning to normal; “Sports are an outlet” ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q  ~ Get $100 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover: https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier  Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey  ~ Beat provided by: https://freebeats.io  Music Produced by White Hot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. People that like are closed minded that are in this type of business, whether it be sports, news, current events, just fucking talking like this, whatever it is, they're not going to get anywhere because A, they're going to be afraid to put themselves out there because they don't want people to disagree with their opinions. And and b when they actually go to do that and you know then they're trying to start conversations with people they're not going to be able to because they're fucking hacks they're like they're like nope this is what i think that's it they can't be like people thrive off of negativity people thrive from saying this video sucks send people love because it's easy it's easy

it's hard to be nice it's easy to be a fucking prick what's cooking everybody i am joined in the bunker today by my very good friend, Mr. Taylor Ringgold. Taylor is a podcaster as well as somebody who works at WFAN up in New York City, which, for those of you who are unaware of WFAN, it is one of the three most prestigious sports radio stations in America, no doubt about it. Now, I assumed that Taylor, being a sports guy, was going to come down here. We were going to talk all about sports. And once again, an assumption I made about a conversation with a guest did not go that way. And I am better for it because I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and the things we did

talk about. I'm not going to go through everything we went through but two things specifically I did want to point out first. We had a good Maybe half hour 40 minute segment in there about the clubhouse app. It was in the middle of the podcast where We discussed how the tide is kind of turned there was something that everyone was so excited about now A lot of people are like, yeah, I was something that everyone was so excited about and now a lot of people are like yeah i was on that i'm off whatever is stupid for those of you who are unaware of that app it wasn't was gotta watch my words there it is an audio only app that allows you to go into rooms and speak with other people around the world on specific topics that really i mean it launched in early 2020 but it started to actually get traction in, say, December, January, and February.

And so if you've been paying attention to the story at all, the downloads of the app went through the roof, and then they've just kind of fallen off a cliff the last couple months. So Taylor has actually done a terrific job on that app. I really haven't been on it the last three months or so, but Taylor's still on there every day. And he runs the MLB on Clubhouse room there for Major League Baseball. And so I wanted to get his thoughts on what he was thinking there, because in my opinion, he's somebody who's used the app very, very well. And some of the negative side effects we've seen from people going on the app obviously have been nowhere near what he's doing there with the MLB room. But I wanted to get his thoughts on the rest of the community and how and if this can kind of turn around so that was a very good in-depth conversation and then I also appreciated our conversation on

building off of zero because Taylor has had his podcast which if I didn't say this it's called the end of the bench podcast you can get it on apple and spotify and it is a sports podcast but he has had that for a few years he's built it off zero himself i have a show here that i'm building off zero many of you out there are building or have built things off zero or want to build things off zero and so hearing somebody talk about it in basically like working his way through that process and what he's thinking good good, bad, and indifferent. I know I really appreciated it, and I think you guys will too. So I hope you enjoy Taylor. Great guy, and I look forward to having him in here again.

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coming into the page and deciding whether or not they're going to give the show a try. And I know a lot of you do listen on Spotify rather than Apple, but if you own an iPhone and you have that podcast app and you can take a second to go in there and leave a five-star comment and review, it is a huge, huge help. So I would really, really appreciate that. That said, you know what it is. I'm Julian Dory, but few seem to do it. If you don't like the status quo, start asking questions. Taylor Rinkle, what's up my dude? What's up dude?

The last time I saw you, we were leaving New York City after the NextGen Summit. Correct. And I later got robbed. Yeah, I remember I was on the train home with my buddy Liam, who was with me. And we were just talking, I guess, and I think I saw on your Instagram story, I want to say. Yeah. And your boys that were there, too. And I was just like, holy shit.

Dude, it happened like right away. I had Mitch hanging out last night. He was over here. He said hello, by the way. there too and i was just like holy shit dude it happened like right away i had i had mitch hanging out last night we were uh he was over here he said hello by the way nice and i think we had left there at like six we were back in jersey city at the at our place by like 6 25 went and grabbed a quick bite and then gone just everything stolen from the car was the car the car was unlocked right unfortunately yes it was yeah it was uh one day i'm gonna have mitch in here and we're gonna do an episode where we just recount that story and not necessarily like the robbery itself everything that happened after because that was a wild fucking week that was like well i mean

what was it like five six grand worth of material oh it was more than that or your laptops you had everything that happened after because that was a wild fucking week that was like well i mean what was it like five six grand worth of material oh it was more than that or your laptops you had hard drives you had cameras you had microphones you had recorders you had everything and all that cost some some money obviously i think it was probably like 10 11 grand or something which is not nothing but the more disappointing part the most disappointing part of it was all of mitch's hard drives were in there because he had packed his hard drives y'all i'm stressed i'm already sweating i know i know i'm freaking out i know it was bad he i i dude i've never felt so bad for someone who didn't die or like have a family member or somebody die as after that

happened because his entire life was on those hard drives and they were all called it's called the cloud you know what though we did have assets on the cloud so there were some things like we had done the maxwells earlier that year okay so we had that all on the cloud thank god and there were other things that we did as well but there was like a ton of old files that he had taken off the cloud that's for like safekeeping and reuse in the future a bunch of big because when you're putting you know how it is when you're putting big content files on the cloud it takes a long time right and it seems like it seems like every six months i'm re-upping and buying a larger like amount of gigabytes or terabytes to move from the cloud because i do all these interviews and i

what i do is now every like five or six interviews i take it off my computer put on a hard drive and it's on the cloud yeah so i have storage on my computer that's a lot that's a lot yeah you're not kidding but that's like that's the point so he had it on multiple different things and it just so happened that he was going to be going down to South Jersey for the week because he was always remote in his job so he could work from there and so he packed up the car before we went and grabbed the bike because he was just going to leave straight from there and so everything happened to be in there and it was like again we'll tell the aftermath of that one time because it was that was rough I mean when I I saw it, because we were there two days together. Yeah. And that's where I met you.

You were right next to me. Yep. And we were both on our grind. And it seemed like all the action was next to us, just us two. Completely. Well, yeah, we also were set up. Prime spot. People are like, what the fuck are we talking about?

There was this conference, the Next Gen Summit, which a lot of entrepreneurs and high-end businessmen and some business celebrities, I guess you could say, like Jesse Itzler was there, Reid Hoffman, some of those guys. Brendan Copeland, who at the time was a linebacker for the Jets, who was a big entrepreneur. Colette Gilsamale was there as well. So a whole bunch of different people. And it's a two-day summit run by these two guys who run, like, a company that runs these things in different cities. And it's the big one that's in New York City in June 2019. So you, if I remember correctly, we were brought in to run, like, sit-down media and just, like, do longer form. Not long form, but, like, you know, 20, 30-minute interviews with all the different people there.

Mine was actually shorter. Yours was different because you were, like red carpet guy right i was that i guess that's how they portrayed it as when these speakers were done doing their keynotes you know whatever their ted talks whatever you want to call them when they were done they would come over they would get escorted over by the workers or whatever that were volunteered for the day and they would bring them over to me for five to eight minutes i know i asked them questions and it was cool it's a different vibe though like when you're like standing up and you're like yo i got a few minutes to and there's like crowds around and shit and i'm used to it i'm used to short amount of time i'm used to um you know it's high leverage you need to get the questions in get the

answers going cuz you know they've been talking for 20 minutes already and they want to go home yeah yeah it's like they halfway it's like they don't want to do it they know they have to and I would you know you have to deal with you know people that are just not interested and you're like look all right my thing was when I when I did those interviews first of all i don't know shit about tech you're a sports guy i'm a sports i don't know shit about tech i the the amount of research i had to do like three days before because i would i would ask them hey can you give me the list of people so i can research yeah and it was like six days before

it was some like we said it was there was a lot of serious people there I mean Jesse Itzler ain't no joke man he's a minority order the Hawks big entrepreneur very nice guy um and I was like talking to my buddy I'm like you don't know any of these people besides who Brendan Copeland is you know and you know I didn't even talk to the other guy I didn't even talk to him well he wasn't even colecci was just rolling around man because he had just he'd just been signed by the jets which then turned into a whole thing but he was literally just like rolling through like oh he'd been connecting with gary v i think and doing some stuff with him because he's like a big fan and then he heard about this and he's like oh fucking i'm not doing anything yeah so like he

whereas copeland i think was like he was a speaker and he was like – yeah. I sat – he was the only guy I watched his speech and he was there. He did a 25-minute thing. He's big on real estate and – Dude, he's smart as shit, that guy. I mean I think he went to – it was either Harvard or Princeton I think. He went to Penn. Penn.

No, no, no. He taught at Penn. Right. He was a professor. He's still in the NFL right now. Yeah. He's a professor at Penn. Yeah. Guy's a professor. He's still in the NFL right now. Yeah. He's a professor at Penn. Yeah.

Guy's a savage. Guy's a savage. Great. And it was cool because I try my best to have some sort of feed in sports topic in the question. Sure. So there's some relatability. Yeah. Brendan Steiner, who owns Steiner Sports, was there.

He was? He was there. I don't remember that. Yeah, he was there. He might have been early day one, maybe. I wish I had known that. That's Chaz's guy. He's done a lot of work with him in the past.

Yeah, he was very nice. So there was some sort of sports guys there. And I got to talk with those people. Look, I don't know who the fuck jeff hoffman was and now i do i think it's reed hoffman no it was jeff was it jeff yeah it's jeff hoffman yeah no reed is the linkedin guy that's why jeff is the what was the price line price line yeah and then alex lieberman who does um morning brew morning brew like i no longer but yeah you look at i looked it up and i was like oh oh, these people are fucking legit.

You know? Yeah. And then it was, after two long days, you had a rough one. And I fast forward my situation about a month down the line throughout the summer. And I'll keep it as frank as possible. Okay. You have the floor. The people at NextGen hired this freelance videographer and an audio person.

They were probably college students, and they had all the equipment that you needed. I didn't even know they did that, though, because this was the one base they didn't have covered. You know what I mean? They asked you and us to come in separate. They should had it covered yeah like this is very important you know you know you know video content's huge and everyone can go to this this this a huge event it's just great but if you can't replay it on every social media or every platform afterwards i mean that one of the audio person was doing audio and she was also doing or some other person that was volunteer did a Facebook live thing every time I was interviewing somebody but no one could hear

them because it was so loud so many people right yeah so to bring it back together here I was told when I got hired I would I didn't get a dime. And I was fine with that. Because I knew, in exchange, I was going to get every interview I was doing. I did 14, maybe 12 interviews. You did at least that. Yeah, at least a dozen. Because you pretty much talked almost with everyone we talked to. And I think each of us had an overlap of maybe three or four people

who we did not both talk to. Like, you talked to three people. But it was pretty much like we would get them to to you and then they come straight and sit down with us and like like a turnstile and what happened was um i was supposed to get the the interviews you know as a like get paid i guess that was my yeah yeah and i was so hyped because i need more content just to have to in my possession and i didn't get any zero because the videographer did not um i guess the people that hired this kid um didn't do their homework and yeah he had i remember emailing back and forth between the guys that have the event and the videographer about hey this was the deal i want it i deserve it and i didn't get paid for it so in in

in exchange i'm gonna get the footage and the kid had this giant contract about i want 20 percent of the audio guy the video guy oh okay i want 20 of what uh whatever video you post and it goes out i want 20 of what you make off of those videos i want credit this that and the other and it was a long contract which was never given to me before so it was given of course after the fact and then i was extremely furious but i kept my cool for about a month with respectful emails back and forth how can they give you a contract after the event this is i want to hear about this because this is interesting to me well the people in next gen were blindsided as well but they didn't but they didn't handle it right as somebody who who has power and and who ran this gigantic event gigantic

event i would think they would have a little more power and a little more authority than what they've shown and and i was very disappointed by that because they seemed very nice they were very nice yeah very nice guys and i was very disappointed because they didn't handle it right like i think here here's what i think and you're totally within the right on this and i remember talking about this with you and obviously like that part didn't work out i know you end up getting like at least a couple of them well because i had my buddy liam oh yeah i said look you're you're i need i need some help i can't do this on my own so in you want to come bring my camera on the side any like you know behind the scenes stuff got it and i had and i would say 90 of the videos the audio was it just didn't work

out but i got to fix a couple of them but i do have video with jesse at slurring yeah but it wasn't but it's something but it wasn't what the yeah you had a whole narrative there my whole get my whole thing going in was like i'm gonna get 12 kick-ass in interviews five to eight minutes great for social and these are important people that people do know. And you're like 23 years old doing this too. I mean, it's like, this is exactly a sweet spot you want to do. I miss my brother's graduation party. Oh, yeah.

I remember that. You're like, yeah, it's my brother's graduation party right now. Yeah, right now. They're having hot dogs right now. God damn. You know, you got to sacrifice some things. Yeah. And that's the whole part of...

What's your brother's name? Jake. Fuck you, Jake. Sorry, pal. No, it's like that, but it's the sacrifice you have to make sometimes. Yeah. I've missed so much shit, man. Yeah, I think in fairness to them, you know, I think Dylan and Justin at the time were

like 23 or 22. They were young, right? And they have built like this whole community and they have all these crazy people who go to these different events for them i mean you get jesse to come to an event and stuff and like i hear it's it's like a network thing so my understanding i give him a lot of credit though i don't know this for sure but my understanding is this isn't like a paid conference like jesse etzler for example he he commands a lot of money every time he speaks, even Hoffman. Some of these guys, they're not just pulling up on a Saturday or Sunday to do something.

But these guys, Justin and Dylan, obviously built out this whole network. And then I guess the point is they're like an access point because they get all kinds of startups around the country, like some that probably aren't going to make it, but a lot that are hopeful and actually are going to do something. And so their group of speakers, quote-unquote mentors and stuff, get access and first look at some of the most cutting-edge stuff to come out. It was very impressive when, I mean, this whole venue was gorgeous too. Oh, yeah, it was amazing. It's right behind you, right there on the background.

Oh, that's right. That's right, that's right, that's right. You know, I was a little nervous. It's right behind you, right there on the background. Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. You know, I was a little nervous, to be honest with you, because it was out of my comfort zone. But sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone to experience things. 100%, man. Risk-taking is just not in media, but it's in every field. if you want to succeed you have to take some risks because if you don't then what the fuck are you doing yeah and and when you're in media too

because you know and obviously you've been at wfan for a while on the programming side and you're like coming up and you've had your own podcast for a while like those are the types of things you have to do you have to do your own show you have to go out and you have to take weird uncomfortable things that like might not even be your subject matter just to prove like yeah i can make a narrative here because in the modern day i mean and i'd love to get a lot of your thoughts on this because you're like on the inside on the industry too like there's so much traditional media just going away and the people who are winning attention are people who are winning online and people who are winning building themselves up by just kind of building a long-term resume. I mean it's really – to me, when I see people break through, that's what I see every time.

It's like, yo, they've been doing this a while. What you're seeing now is the big-time media companies are trying to follow what these more popular, like a barstool or – Barstool is the prime example of what people want to watch and people want to listen to because it's – Are you a big fan of it? I'm a huge fan of theirs. They're great. Yeah, I've made some cool relationships with some of the guys that have worked there. But they're relatable, and relatability is the biggest thing right now. I've made some cool relationships with some of the guys that have worked there. But they're relatable.

And relatability is the biggest thing right now. I can't relate to Scott Van Pelt. Scott Van Pelt is the peak, the tip-top, best sports host in the world. I can't relate to him. Why is that? He's still on the spn he's he's an all-timer yeah yeah um i don't know i think the way that some of the some of the people at barstool they're just the you know their thing was like the common man right they're just a bunch of bunch of people talking sports shit talking you just you're not finding that at

these big time media companies of fox sports or they're trying like undisputed they're trying to banter you know first take that's been for years and that and that's also another thing it's look i don't know how long they're going to wait until they kind of conform to the other side where the new stream the the new media nowadays where it's laid back it's um you can voice your own opinion and if you're wrong it's okay you know and i think the mainstream media the espn's of the world the fox sports the um i'm like forgetting other channels here but i don't know if they'll ever get there and it's when it's when it's when companies like barstool hit uh they go somewhere else like they bring a show to a network and that show kills then they might see a change like they've already

been shut down doing that though they tried to do that they tried it was you know they took one quote out of context like oh yeah now we can't do this show like something dave portnoy said in the past it's like you can't right so it's it's a it's a this has been going on for a long time but it's still very new yeah so it's a it's a matter of time i think but it's just to take a long time for these it's about who's running the network right who's gonna who's gonna have the balls to go to the other side it's really hard on the traditional side because they're working against groupthink and they're working against and when we're talking about public companies too like espn owned by disney they're working against like public shareholders in a certain way it's about business it's about ad deals and products you think you know fucking coca-cola wants to hear someone

talking about you know dick and balls no but that's the other thing man corporate culture is so and and it's not even like i want to be careful how i say this but you know for years i would say almost like too early but i I got to give them credit. They were kind of on to something. You saw like a lot of – in the 2000s, you'd see like some pretty hardcore conservatives talking about how they weren't using the word woke because it wasn't around, but like how just fucking like soft some of these networks were, even in things like sports. And I don't think they were right back then, but maybe they saw like a couple couple signs and so I have to give them credit that maybe they saw something I didn't but in the last several years the focus of places like ESPN has gone to that corporate culture which is driven down from them from the top right because corporate culture is all about like yo

how can we be like the most understanding and pander and and say whatever we got to say so that we don't get in the news and don't get crushed by somebody in the media trying to make a story? Right. And so I empathize with like these ESPNs of the world. I do too. When it's like – I do too. What are they supposed to do?

And I feel like we do see how ESPN and Fox Sports and other networks are trying. They're trying their hardest to do it, but there's a lot of things in the way. Money. There's a lot of contracts and deals. A lot of things are in the way. And I think it's because once that changes, once the products or once the companies

that are working with these networks can be a little looser, then I think things will change. I feel like ESPN wants to change. And Fox wants to change. And other networks want to have more. You do see it. There's like a, I forget what the show's called. I don't think it's even on anymore. But it was a show that was at like 2 in the morning on ESPN.

And they were wearing jeans. They had Yeezys on. They had bomber jackets. And they were shooting the shit. But it was at 2 o'clock in the morning on ESPN. And they were wearing jeans. They had Yeezys on. They had bomber jackets. And they were shooting the shit. But it was at 2 o'clock in the morning on a Tuesday. Yeah. And that's the issue. And there's such a, you know, I forget how you said it.

You said it really well when you were talking about Barstool, which is, it's the best example. I mean, and I, way back in the day when I was first doing the podcast and experimenting around i did an episode talking about that and why people really fucked with it and focus on dave portnoy more than anything because i've respected that from afar for so long and like with barstool the way you were saying it's just kind of like they're shooting the shit and there's no production to it like when they're watching the games and gambling on it it's literally just like

a one-shot screen maybe with one side camera or whatever and it's a bunch of dudes on a couch eating wings and screaming fuck you when something doesn't go their way there's no it's authentic exactly and that's such an overused word but but but that's not but not it's not only in sports media it's in it's in all podcasting and all the new media going on everyone wants to see authentic authentic people having a scripted show yeah like i i watched a scripted podcast one time holy shit man it was terrible because what look you could have a scripted opening monologue right it's fine but the rest of the show should be just fluid like this is fluid yeah rogan's fluid part of my take is fluid conversation and they've always been that way too right they

have they might like you know part of my take might have a bullet points of like all right we're gonna start with this one then this one then this one but we're not gonna like but yeah i'll put off this side but we're not gonna like have it time coded this is 15 minutes conversation you i've always said in my interviews i don't want a time limit on it yeah because why am i going to limit an amazing conversation that could one topic can i think could be 15 minutes can go on for 45. i and i've and you know what i've seen that with your content too because like you had the one a couple weeks ago i always forget the guy's name is the nfl network guy scott hansen yeah where he was talking you know you guys ended up on a on a sidebar talking about the april fool's joke they played where he was right there

on stage like oh that was chris rose i've had a couple of guys yeah you've had a couple of those guys but either way like he was on stage with it was strahan um who's the actor tom arnold right and then one or two other people and it's like on somebody else yeah and it's just like and this is a guy that who you were talking to who i'm used to being like welcome back to good morning football or like whatever and of course he's great at what he does but he's a part of that old guard and whatever and then you see him get in to talk with you and it's just like oh yeah i'm shooting the show taylor and it's like it's almost like you know like obviously we have lights and cameras in here right we have mics just like they do but there's not fucking 50 producers with headsets on telling

you screaming in your ear going no don't go there because i fb and right yeah it's like it's so fluid and i guess the other question for you that's right on this topic that's kind of important is how fluid is it at wfan is for people that don't know wfan where you work is i mean it's the preeminent sports station in new york it's historical in the country yeah i mean i would say wfan and wip in philly as far as sports stations wei2 is up there in boston in boston those three cities are just you know sports havens. That's why. Fucking right there.

But at least at WIP here, I used to go in the studio because I knew some of the guys there when I was like 17, 18. They were really natural. It wasn't far off what we see now. And do you find it pretty similar at WFAN in your experience? Yeah, being around talent is what they call in the business, the host. If it's on TV or radio, it's called talent. These guys are fucking naturals. Yeah. Naturals.

Craig Carton, as much as you like him or you don't, a natural. Evan Roberts, a natural. Mike Francesa was a natural. Tilla. Tilla. Yeah. Tilla, I'm not a natural. I got to see Francesa twice before he retired.

I never got to talk to him or shake his hand i just saw from afar and it's like it was like oh i was like whoa yeah you the legend right but it's he would talk for like five straight hours it's just him it's hard to do not gonna be i i talked one time we'll get into the story later but talking for an hour straight by myself is tough um but yeah no it's like going through a show you know it takes a lot of work every everyone's got to be working together the talent is doing their job talking to baseball answer or talking sports and then answering calls people behind the class the board, producer, they all have to work together. If one person's off, the show's fucked. So I guess the way to phrase the question is like,

how much of it is like, yo, this is exactly what we're going to be talking about and let's keep the calls there too, versus it's like, okay, let's kind of roll with the punches. We know these are the main stories going on, so that's probably what they're going to talk about and we're going to go with it. Because was wip there's there's a there's it's all it's honestly it's every radio station right you want to have a fluid conversation and you want to have the callers be on the same page as you and if you're really good at it you can time it out it's like there could be you know your producers talking in your head it's like all right let's go on the next topic in you know 10 minutes or whatever but if you're an extra if you're like

a veteran doing it you kind of like a mental clock in your head yeah we've been talking about this for 25 minutes let's get on to something else we go to break come back we have a new story coming out whatever breaking news whatever it is so it's about um i think there's a mixture of both structure and having being naturally fluid. Yeah. Right? Because you can see, I've watched simulcast radio or whatever. That's where it's on TV as well. Yeah.

Where in like the final hour or two, it gets kind of slow. And they just start rambling about shit, just nonsense, talking about favorite wings or they're talking about anything. And it doesn't have to relate to sports at all as long as it's entertaining well i think the guys when when it's a co-host when it's a couple of them it's it's definitely easier the guys who have to host those like four hour shows and they got remember they got to work it up against commercial breaks because they're still old school like that in radio it has to be and you know that's where i feel like you know once you get like two hours in it's like all right why don't we talk about in each segment you know what i mean like that's that's where when when you're talking about rambling

it's pretty hard not to oh yeah you just go off and then you know what francesa yes give the guy credit for talking five six hours straight but when you have callers yeah it helps that's true it fucking helps because it's like it's it's like you're having a revolving you know a co-host for for a minute and he would always do like that opening monologue for like 15 20 minutes minutes because when I lived up there, I would listen to him once in a while. Come on and be like, the story about Eli. Listen, listen. The Giants, they messed this entire thing up.

They messed this – and you just – you'd almost like get your blood going while he's talking because he was such an artist with how he would like paint the picture. And yet it's this – he's a New York guy. I mean you listen to the accent and everything. It's like you talk about authenticity. It's a hundred percent there. And it's not like he can say fuck or whatever he wants to say. He's got to clean it up a little bit, but it doesn't, you almost don't notice that even in today's times where it's kind of easy to notice if someone can't do that.

You know, it's, it's a, um, it's like a clean comic. It's a true talent to be a clean, a brian regan who is like a great comic straight clean like jim gaffigan is clean it's hard it's almost it's it's it's more impressive if you cannot curse one time for an hour straight yeah try doing that everyone listening try not cursing for an hour i i would i can never right so it's it's a thing I I try working I try doing myself when I do my interviews because when I tell my guests before we start I give them a little spiel like alright look I'll tell you what I do what I've done whatever and whatever the topics might be and I said

look this is laid-back this isn't your typical journalistic one-on-one interview where I'm asking you these you you know, just basic Q&A. I want it to be a normal conversation. And I tell them, and I've had guys or I've had people on, they're like, okay, thank God. Because, like, this is the 40th interview I've done today, and I kind of want to answer the same fucking question. Yeah. That whole, and you were talking about, like, scripted podcasts. There are a lot of podcasts that we don't even realize are scripted where, like, you know, they got on a screen like this, for example, in their house or whatever, they got

the 13 questions they're going to ask. And there's like no flow to it. There's no, and there's no conversation. And I'm definitely, cause I do it too. Like you're definitely going to be even more heated about it when you do it. I mean, you get that, but you know, I'm a little more biased against it than probably the average person. frankly people can smell that bullshit they can smell when it's like oh there's there's this wall there they're not really i'm i'm like 50 50 i do have a few questions things that i i need to be in front of me so i don't forget them not like bullets yes yeah i i'm talking about the people that are that like have it numbered like 1 to 20 and that's the order they go in so when someone finishes an answer they go to the next thing yeah i do not do that there's a lot of

people that do that dude and and sometimes that works for him and for personally maybe for you and me it doesn't i i when i tell people like they ask me like oh ask me, is it hard interviewing somebody if it's a famous person or something? I said, yes and no. It just depends on the personality of who you're talking to. But just remember, you and I have been sitting here for four hours, and we've had a nice conversation. You don't think about it when you're talking to somebody. You don't think that you're asking a question.'re not it just comes fluid right it says you're not thinking about it and

that's what i try doing and that's what you try doing in your interviews you just want to make it a normal conversation and the best person to watch is rogan rogan he's the best ever he's the podfather he's he's the he's a great conversationalist he it's it's incredible how great he is at it i watched many youtube videos about like the science of how he talks to people and people might be like all right it's kind of like crazy taylor no but no it's not it is a science of what he does and how he how he gets interviews started by compliments and and gets them engaged early on because once you grab someone early on you're set yeah you're set yeah the the and then i've done that i've i've taken that same approach for almost all my

interviews i've done and look i'm still learning i'm freaking I'm 26 I'm still super young and I'm yeah I got a long list gotten a lot better from when I first listened to your podcast a couple years ago when I met you like it is if people went back you're on what episode 140 something now like 135 or something yeah so if people went back to like number 50 they would not enjoy it nearly as much I agree you weren't you weren't you weren't as good and now it's it's much more flow to it right and that episode 50 was better than what it was oh hell yeah two years ago when i was interviewing ball players and stuff like that and it's all about like that's one thing i learned too where i've taken that same approach from i i interned for the twins in 2018 it was the best job i ever had it was the fun minnesota twins yeah yeah i gotta clarify that sorry minnesota twins right and i got

to interview baseball players every day and it was a dream stand-up kind of interview locker room clubhouse on the field in the dugout things i've dreamed of doing. And one of the people that I worked with every day was like, Taylor, look, there's two things you need to take from this internship. One, you need to look around you, look what you're doing, and don't take it for granted. You're doing something that everybody wants to do in our industry, and you have this for six months. You can get it back once it's done.

You just got to keep working hard. Another thing was just be yourself and do not be the typical journalistic. That's someone I didn't want to be. I didn't want to be the norm. I wanted to just be myself, cool, common, collective. I come up to a guy and i just dap him up say hey nice game last night and then they'll say hey do you need something from me

i'm like no i don't so because when i just have a normal conversation with a player when i do need them they'll come back to me and say hey i got you it's building relationships it's building relationships and i i got in trouble for being too friendly believe it or not what do you mean how do you get in trouble for that um somebody said you gave him a rubbing thug yeah no i got i got hey i'm not really i'm not judging you i'm not really in trouble they just said like hey you can't be doing this they said i was being too friendly to the players. Like I wanted to be friends with them. Who said that? People of power. At the Twins?

Yeah. Okay. And other people around me, reporters. Got it. You can't be doing this, be more professional. And as the young guy, I was 22, 23, I said, okay. And I was furious. I was so mad because that's not what I'm doing. I'm not like, hey, let's go to the club after the game. I'm not fucking doing that. What I'm

doing is I want to build relationships. So when I do see them in two years, they'll fucking remember my face and my name. And guess what? A year later, I got to see the twins again. I saw Trevor May. I saw Mitch Garver and Trevor Heldenberger, who was on the twins at the time. They remember me. They came up to me. Jose Barrios, who's the young ace of the team, came up to me. And he's like, hey, dude, how are you?

And I said, I'm great. And then I would let him go. Because it's all about building relationships. And that's why I've gotten cool guests with even building relationships. We're just like talking to one person one time. And it's just like, or I tell kids is like young guys or young girls in the industry, just like be yourself.

Do not fucking fall into the trap of the old school way of reporting. Just be normal. I think that our, it's a generational thing more than anything because our generations everyone's got their their positives and their flaws every generation does i think one of our positives is that for those of us that can be social right because one of the downsides is some people are like oh some of them aren't social because they're glued to their phones and shit but those of us that actually are good with other people we really value the relationship we value shooting the shit with somebody we value

actually like kind of knowing who they are and it's funny and you don't have to put any names on it or anything like that i don't want to put you in a corner at all but when you mentioned like people around me like other reporters and stuff that didn't surprise me at all that that would happen because they're look it's like any other industry but it's a little special in that kind of industry it's cutthroat as fuck you know it's all about who gets the interview who gets that question who gets that thing done who can take credit for it now it's like a it's been this way for a decade over a decade now it's a tweet game who tweets it first it's who has the first thing out and so hard shit man all these people they see a kid coming in and and they know you're like an intern you're fucking 21 and they're like oh this

kid's beating us at our own game dude i'm telling you when i walked in um the in-studio host who's with the twins missile twins radio chris atterbury who's great guy i look up to him still he was a guy i didn't know even coming in i learned a ton from him him and the producers kind of just threw us interest there was another guy named charlie who was my other intern with me just threw us into the fire basically like learning how to do your reporting in a clubhouse post game pre-game um and just like have at it and go not really learning much just kind of like on the fly which i think is the right way to do it fuck up in real time so then the next time you're not going to do it i remember one time

the very first time i walked in the clubhouse i had the microphone with the you know the badge on it i had i felt like a fucking beast i was so i suited up opening day so i wore a suit i had my calvin klein suit i bought after graduation my own money i love fly shit no joke man yeah klein's got some nice suits got some nice suits and i and i was so proud of myself for being where i'm at where i was at and i was came in and all these and i became friends with a few of the reporters you know later down the line of the season but you do look i looked in i'm like i'm the youngest person here by 20 years yep and i don't know what the i'm doing i think i know what i'm doing but i don't and um all these people reporters don't have time for me

they all don't and here's the other thing this is just a reality and maybe not as much for some of the tv media people or some of the people or some of the people who were there from like online media but especially like the reporters like the writers and stuff some of these guys are talented as hell but they're in the wrong industry and they make no fucking money and they're watching their friends one by one get fired every day because half of it's going away and so they see this kid walk in and they're like fuck him you know that day because half of it's going away. And so they see this kid walk in, and they're like, fuck him. You know, it's territorial. Because I'm a young kid, and I was working for the Twins radio station,

which was popular. It's a popular place to listen to the game. And it was extremely intimidating because you're around guys who've been watching on television for years. Was Maurer still on the Twins at the time? That was last year. Yeah. Yeah, and it was like Joe Maurer, MVP, twins that was his last year yeah yeah and it was in like Joe Maurer

MVP gold glove player batting champion legend and he was walking by me and it's just like it just some of the times it was like where the fuck am I right now and early on it was tough like I remember a thing is you can't interview the starting pitcher the day they start. It's a thing. Pre-game, you never do it. Right. And I saw – It's an old ritual.

You can't fucking do that. And I saw someone do that that was a veteran reporter, and he did it. And I saw it happen. I was like, write that down. Don't do that. Got it. And then post-game, I did this. Luckily, only a couple people saw it, but I was extremely embarrassed.

A pitcher who was only there for half the year got rocked. Five innings, four innings, walked five, five earned. Not a good start for him. And the thing is, when the game's over, the starting pitcher talks, but the whole media scrum all goes at once. The talk to the starting pitcher talks, but the whole media scrum all goes at once. The talk to the starting pitcher. How crazy is that? That that's like the thing.

The scrum is still the thing. It will always be the thing. And how it goes is, so it's at the time, Fox Sports Midwest was the TV station that was broadcasting the games live on television. So the field reporter asked three questions first, and then once she or he is done talking, then the rest of us can talk. Me, on the other hand, this is like week two, week one of the season. I go up to the starting pitcher who just got rocked. All the other reporters are off to this side waiting to go into the coach, the manager's office.

I'm like, all right, I'm'm gonna get my questions in early whatever the guy says wait until everyone's else is here off and I said okay and some reporters heard that nobody said anything players heard that nobody said anything and I have um I have an earpiece in my ear connected to like a like a feed producer boss laughing yeah in my ear and i was like can anybody warn me next time and they're like you know that's how you'll learn and i never did it again i'll never do it again because that's the you don't up twice on that yeah and and the the guy there's two things that that guy's the prick by the way well maybe and individuals absolutely can be i the guy there's two things that that guy's a prick by the way well maybe and individuals absolutely can be i'm sure there's plenty of them but like numerous times

the guys who aren't pricks like they they know like oh okay he didn't know you know what i mean like if you did it three times like you said then they might be like get a fucking clue right but there's also you're going in there and you're trying to like feel your own way out and at the end of the day like they're gonna recognize that so some right and there's a lot of players that the ones that do there's a lot of players that did recognize it from both sides twin side or the opposing um uh clubhouse which i interviewed players all over too and and sometimes don't give a and and it took me a month or so to change like the persona of like this assistant slash intern whatever look and i was extremely confident going into every single clubhouse knowing that i gotta get my

work done gotta get the quotes and now they're quick it's a confidence thing though too confidence thing you gotta you gotta be you gotta confidence thing. You got to own it. Exactly. You got to fucking own it. You got to walk up into those because you were born to be there. Because people can sniff it on you that you're the young guy. Yep. You can look it.

But if you can kick ass and kind of show everybody else, like, hey, I can get my shit done and I can answer. I can get in the first media scrum of 20 reporters. I ask the first question and I ask a good one. You gain respect quick. And the scrum is a little different when it's like everyone else is there because you know you're going to get one in. And he's not paying attention to you only when you ask the question. That's when he's paying attention and he's on to the next person. So that one's like I want to say a little easier once you figure out how you actually get your question in and figure out when to ask the question that's when he's paying attention that he's on the next person yeah so that one's like i want to say a little easier once you figure out how you actually get your

question in and figure out you know when to ask the right one but when you're going and doing a stand-up interview with someone five six minutes whatever it is getting into a flow and this is same thing you were doing at next gen getting into a flow with those people i can't imagine that because i mean you talked about it here and doing this or like on joe rogan what he does the opportunity to shut the door turn on the lights put on the headphones and the world is absolutely shut out and dark behind you time doesn't exist and it's just two guys right in each other's earphones talking to each other yeah you can get this type of i wish everyone had a chance to do this you can get this type of flow and bond that kind of happens like we're already in it right now where it's like oh

yeah we're good like well let's kind of roll with it right but you know when you walk up to these guys first of all we're standing secondly it's in the locker room thirdly we gotta do this every fucking day fourthly this is not this is the guy's career this is not imagine like you know you have to be interviewed every time you fucking produce something like taylor how'd that go out there right you're like what the fuck dude like i'm just trying to pay the goddamn bills here right right so getting into a flow with someone like that it seems kind of impossible to me but did you ever find the way to actually do that yeah it took a little while because the players see all of us every day so you see the recurring faces and my plan was hopefully that i wasn't put on like as a target like all right this kid's annoying i don't want to talk to him so that's

where i thought of i said look you just go up to a guy and say what's up hit knuckles say what's up how was your weekend we're not at how's your weekend but like you know nice game whatever or you you kind of pay attention to their social media they're playing like they're playing call duty the night before they posted it so you know nice kill streak or something whatever you just anything you're in there taking notes on yeah oh he just killed two of them yeah oh he's up he's up to 1.5 dude i'm serious it's any little thing that can sway them the other way there'll be times where i'll just I'll be done with my work. I'll be done.

What I love to do, instead of going back to the studio, I will go back to the studio, get my shit done, and then leave and go sit in the dugout, watch BP. And I'd be sitting in the dugout. And it was the coolest shit ever because guys would just sit next to me or tie their shoes or whatever and just talk, whatever. And as soon as I did it one time, at one time like i got to keep doing this because i know i'm building relationships very slowly yes but when it came down to it like i had a when the last game of season was over or it

was like your last game of season um you know you go in the morning you get like those morning quotes or whatever and a lot of the guys are just packing up. And a couple of guys, I said, like, hey, I appreciate all the help. You know, this is my first real experience, and I really appreciate you being kind to me. And he's like, no, you were kind to all of us. A lot of us like you. You know, don't change who you are. And there was a guy who was like, you know, who's now a starter now, full-time starter for the team. And he's like, dude, you did a great job.

You know, a lot of these reporters are fucking annoying. And a lot of them are good. but we like you because you're chill and you still that's the thing though too like and as you come into the industry and stuff like there is a job to do you know even when you're friends with these guys when someone's not playing well or not getting the job done like you're required unless you're fucking you gotta report on it i had i had one guy um it was like the the reds were in town and this kid tyler malley who's i think a star star still for the reds since i read he shoved against the twins and he was a rookie in 2018. he was he shoved like shove he like mowed him down oh played well yeah i'm doing baseball terms yeah yeah the shove was interesting yeah i might use that that's pretty good he fucked him up the twins up eight strikeouts whatever and

i remember i'm in the studio and i'm talking to my producers and i'm like all right what am i gonna ask and then one of them was like hey just ask him like they're at bat i'm like well this guy struck out on four pitches and he got fooled every time. And I was like, okay. And I went up, and he's one of the leaders of the team, and there was like eight of us reporters, and I asked him the first question. I was like, all right, take me through your bet. And I was like, I think the question was like a phrase,

how did he pitch? Like what was his pitch mix, and how was he different from yesterday started he's like well he threw faster and he threw more strikes and i got struck out and i was like the sky is up the ground is below us and you can walk the fuck over there yeah and i just like he and he looked at me after he was done talking because he was on a huge slump and i was like i just said thank you i'll talk to you later and i just dipped i went back to the studio and that was it and it was like how'd it go and i'm like well you can fucking listen to it. It wasn't good.

I don't think we truly appreciate it. I don't know if the words appreciate it, but I appreciate it. How many, especially in sports, but in anything, but especially in sports, how many complete non-answer answers happen every single day? Like, I don't have a percentage for you, but if you held a gun to my head and said, Julian, give me a percentage of interviews where the player coach or fucking general manager says a whole lot of fucking nothing in a bunch of words that aren't even big words but they make them sound like you know they say i'm really long and hard like they sound like they're something

it's probably like 80 i mean it's a lot and the guy the post child of that who did a great job throughout his career was cheater cheater said the your stereotypical one-liners the you know it's god he said so many and he was so freaking good at it bro you never saw andy reed pal well yeah there's that guy too yeah but but all these young players for the yankees i've heard stories that they watch cheaters post game press conferences they they watch and talk to the media. They tell these young kids coming up, watch him. This is how you're

supposed to talk. Here's how you say fucking nothing. And you stick to it for 20 years saying nothing and say the right thing all the time. And I feel bad for athletes because they have to be correct every time. Voicing your opinion nowadays is taboo and yeah

it gets you in trouble and which is on anything on anything and um i give players credit and athletes credit when they do voice their opinion yeah because your your uh careers at stake your salary your any ad deals you have or you know it's all risking you're all you're risking everything to voice your opinion what do you let me ask you on that specifically because i i think this is such this is a very interesting topic because we live in very interesting times but i get so stressed out when i look at you know and you're talking about anything but i want to focus on one thing specifically i get really stressed out at the conversations that happen where people are fighting over like athletes talking politics. Because to me, I look at this fairly simply.

Anyone who lives in this country and votes and has an opinion has a right to fucking talk and say what they, especially if it's something like near and dear to their heart when they get aggressive about it and like fuck you if you disagree yeah i that's a little much for me but it's like i kind of ignore it other people who may be on like the side that they're disagreeing with don't and i get that it's like whatever the place where i get pissed off is when they say careless shit that's like not factual and then just keep screaming it on social media just saying like speak like you know uh what's it called um not thinking you know before they speak kind of thing completely but to me like the question there like bearing a question would be what what are what's your take on it as we've seen like politics get injected into everything and do you have a place where you draw the line or are you more somebody

that's like you know what fucking anything goes you know they have a platform they can say what they want and if they're wrong we'll check them i'm on that yeah route so you have athletes that have millions of dollars and they have all this behind them, a giant social media following. I say if they're not doing it, I think it's a disservice. Look, LeBron has done the right things the majority of the time.

Recently, what he did with his tweet, deleted it, whatever. Yeah, he botched that one. And guess what? He's fucking human i think i think to people and and i've talked about lebron on this podcast because me and miles matthews we talked about him a bunch and i got such an interesting relationship with him as like a as an athlete in person i think there is so much positive with him but the negative is

it just fucking pisses you off because he'll double down on shit. Like that example. You're talking about the one a month ago or a month and a half ago where it was with – he tweeted out the picture of a guy without facts when a simple Google search would have shown you the video that very clearly showed that this was the first fucking competent cop I've seen on a bad video in a long time, you know, where something bad happened. And he took it down, but then he doubled down and he still doubled down a few weeks ago. And it's like, dude, that's where all these people then scream, yo, fuck you, LeBron, and call him, you know, LaChina la china and all that shit you know because the whole china thing and everything you give them gas to say that and i can't look at them and be like yo you're completely wrong i gotta look at them and say yeah on this one you're right and then it creates more division to me so that's like that's where my line is you know it's just like if you're wrong if it's if someone walks you up to a wall pretend this wall

is white and and you bring michelangelo back from the dead and Leonardo da Vinci back from the dead, and you scientifically and artistically explain why the wall is white, the wall is white. Just say it's white. You know what I mean? And some guys, they get so dug in on stuff, and then they get pissed off, and you have a bunch of people in this country who then can blanket statement generalize all of them and say yo no athlete should talk no celebrity should talk which is total bullshit you know but when you have all that attention and you're making a lot of fucking money there's a level to which you have to be a little bit careful it's it's such a weird line right it's like when we watch the academy awards yeah and someone wins the the best actor and they made 30 million dollars this year and they're

telling me how to eat or telling me how to live, it's kind of hard to take you seriously. I think it's different with athletes, right? I relate to the athlete part differently than watching Joaquin Phoenix telling him how to drink milk. That was one of the funniest. I'm not lying. I thought that was pretty funny.

I thought that was hilarious. And guess what? Everyone else did right it's just people go google that if you haven't seen it it is fucking pretty fucking hysterical it's just weird it's like i always think for that it's like when you reward take it you say thank you to your agent thank you to whoever the company that produced it and put it out there if it's netflix whatever thank the other actors and go so you don't think on that kind of scenario and again you're making the difference and i want to ask about

that you're making the difference between athletes and we'll just say entertainers in this case yeah but like you don't think in that scenario like that's a place you wouldn't if it's like an award show just stick with the award i think stick with the award because i think the athlete part people relate more like people look up to athletes more than actors i would say do you think that i think i think kids look up to athletes more i than actors actually do agree with that yeah because i think more kids dream about being a star basketball player than they do being the star like actually dream about it being the star actor because they can't walk outside and just act right whereas they can walk outside and pick up a ball and

shoot it you know right and i think and i think going back to just how these athletes have such a huge following i think it depends on who is saying the topic like if it's lebron or it's colin kaepernick it's they're in the right category right they're talking it and they've had um i gotta be careful how i say this that's okay everything goes no i know i'm just if you say something stupid i'll check it no i'm not i'm not saying like i just want to i want to phrase it right so i don't sound like an idiot okay um what i'm trying to say is is that certain athletes have a huge platform and if they have a platform that they can project positive energy out and positive reinforcement and how to change

a negative situation to a positive they should do it yeah like what lebron has done and what kyle cappernick's done and now look and and look everyone deserves and it is okay to make a mistake. Yes, I agree with that. Nowadays, you can't make it. You can't make a mistake because if you do, your fucking life's over. And that's a huge problem. And I don't... And I want to be clear.

I am not, like with the LeBron example, even though that mistake was a little bigger because he ducked somebody and put his picture out which is not you can't do that if he had just deleted it and i don't even need to apologize just be like oh shit you know whatever i'm fine like it wasn't great whatever we move on it was a tweet but when you double down on shit that bothers me and like with kaepernick people were so shut down to what he was trying to do that then the issue got way and to his credit he got a lot more attention on it through it because the issue got way bigger because what he was doing was not wasn't a big deal you know and people there were people i guess on the opposite side of the issue who have certain beliefs who were just like no fuck that we don't want any of that in our sports and whatever and

it's like well that's why it then got more rampant because people are like see you guys don't listen yeah you know you know how easy it is to just take a deep breath sit down for a second really look into it and then if you still don't agree with what it is what they're projecting then that's your opinion but people are so quick to judge and so quick to just jump on an opinion without even fucking thinking about it it's it's it's i mean that's been the fucking as old as time but even nowadays they have a keyboard it's fucking. It's so fucking easy just to look into something and know what they're actually doing. People, I forget the exact stat, but just as one example, it's something like 85% of all Google searches don't go past the first result.

I'll have to check that. But either way, it's a ridiculous number have to check that. But either way, it's a ridiculous number. And now put that context in everything with headlines and all the information thrown at people.

The one thing I will empathize with everyone on is like, think of all the news stories every day across everything. Yeah. Whether you're a big sports fan, there's news stories across sports

and then the news, right? What's going on in the world. Yeah. Entertainment, whatever. It's all thrown at you all the time and yet you sleep seven hours out of every 24 6 7 whatever it is when you wake up it's fucking right there right it's there and then you have a life you have a job you may have kids you got shit going on in the notification just that's the point how many things are you saying yo let me do my research on this? How much time can you say, I'm going to read past this headline? Yeah.

So we get mad at people when they jump to conclusions because they only read headlines. And, like, it is frustrating sometimes, especially when someone then has a really bad take on something. But I get it in the sense that there's so much shit going on during your day. How come with everything that the media all throws at people all the time how do you expect them to sit there and be like you know what i'm gonna do my homework on this it's hard man there's not a lot of time in the day to to read two three articles to get a to get your uh to get knowledge on a topic once you read a headline look i think we've all been we've all had it we've all done that yeah 100 or i read a headline i sent to somebody i'm like hey did you

see this it's like did you read the fucking article i'm like well no i'm i'm fucking you know driving you know it's just like whatever i'm doing yeah so it's it's um it's just a problem and i think i don't think it's gonna go away i think it's gonna still progress the way it's doing right now i think or it could be get worse i mean clickbaity thumbnails are a huge thing we all you know you try doing i do we all do it to get people to just click and open their video open up an article or blog hope you have value behind it you know and that's the thing right you can do clickbaity shit but if if there's intent there's value there's information to back it up and it's there then okay but majority of time it's

not and i think that the the arguments or not the argument the the issue has quote-unquote like infected a lot of it's it's everywhere in culture right and so now everyone has an opinion on it people who have never watched a basketball game have these wild opinions of lebron james and also happen to have wild opinions of him in the history of the nba versus like michael jordan that's like a comparison and it's like we're at that point now where everyone including your grandparents maybe they're not on twitter but like facebook dude facebook they can send the quickest thought out it's it's and it's and that is what these these companies feed on you know there was that time where when social media was born we didn't realize it but you know we were the product this is we were the test dummies you

100 and not even the test dummies we we were the end result too. Because, and that's why when all this data leak stuff comes out and stuff, why are people pissed? Because that's how Facebook's making the money. They're making the money off of what we give them as people. You know? No, it's crazy. And I don't know. I don't know if it's going to get better or worse because we're just so used to it. Yeah. We're just so used to it yeah we're just so used

to giving off of our opinion and and you're right there's people that don't like for like for us this clubhouse has been a great source for people to voice their opinion that i've never talked before in front of people that like the same yeah what what do you what do you think about where clubhouse stands right now well talking about the app you nominated me i did back in back in the day now yeah back in the day right in january yeah end of january yeah i i love it i do and i don't um i really utilize it well um you do i'm on it i'm on it a lot um it used to be like an unhealthy amount but now it's back to where it's like i'm productive with other shit and i can be on clubhouse whatever um the app is great

you know and it's it's first got on it because i heard it on a podcast or something and i was like look if this is like a linkedin thing but better i'm gonna just do it get on it you nominated me i started talking to you and giovanni and some of the other people that i met early on and and then i used more for networking i met i was in rooms like television rooms or sports rooms or um video editing rooms and i kind of learned some to a lot of notes and it was productive and then i met cool people on it it was it's like the 2021's version of like AOL chat room I never had an AOL like Messenger whatever it was called yeah that's some that's some old that's old school but like but you know I've made close friends I have a club that has over 1K followers on it which is

great that's the MLB Club yeah and I it's like the official MLB on ch yeah it's it's great the you know and i had um an agent yesterday and a former mlb of the year manager al manager of the year jeff bannister was in the room a couple days ago we had a long conversation about baseball mental health and baseball whatever and and and i have rooms you know twice three times a week um for an hour and i i'm slowly getting a quick following it's been about two months but and i've also met friends that i've like hung out in person with that's cool i'm meeting i'm meeting some on sunday for brunch and it's like this third time i've met them in person and we do zooms or facetime with everybody it's like another friend group i have but for the

people that are listening like clubhouse is a place that people have never had a voice before that are quiet that are nervous to talk to people i've seen people personally that don't talk at all can't stop talking now because it's it's behind a wall you're not not video you're not seeing faces you're just hearing people talk i think it's great so i think this is actually where it gets complicated for clubhouse because and i'm glad you brought this up because i've been thinking about this app a lot and i haven't really been on it in the last couple months and there's i think there's a lot of issues there and i was i was a very big fan at the very beginning and we can get into that and like why i was thinking that and see where this this whole ship's going.

But the point on people who have never had a voice now have a voice, on the surface, that seems amazing, right? And for some people it is, in my opinion. I know you're going with this. Right? who now because it's behind the screen and they can go into rooms like almost like what was that old app where you used to go room to room and there'd be like fucking people beating off and shit the chat roulette or whatever yeah yeah like and and that's exaggeration but it's almost like you can go in a room with people you don't know and like suddenly puff your chest and have a big voice which to me at the beginning i was like i was looking at a lot of positives

with that because i'm like oh so people have to be able to talk so all these people who are fucking body bagging people from behind a keyboard on twitter if they talk like this fuck you man like people are gonna be like get the fuck out of here you know whereas the the people who actually can state an opinion and have evidence and be able to go back and forth and converse, they're going to win. The people that aren't talkative though that get talkative on there, and this is why this was the important point. A lot of them are people who are just like suddenly taking advantage of the fact that they don't know anyone in there and they get all excited and they're're like oh i can say whatever the fuck i want so it kind of went the opposite way of what i thought and we're seeing a lot of rooms that invaded the app i started to notice it in like mid-february where it was just grifter fucking city and at the beginning of the app the reason

i liked it is because i had a community of about 10 guys who were like my guys. Like I knew them, right? And we were all going back and forth on stuff and we all had different connections. So we could have interesting conversations on there. And our rooms were amazing. And then some rooms I would go into, this is earlier on in the app, maybe like January. They would be really impressive. And to your point, you get some really interesting people in there.

But you started to see where, and you can see it in the numbers when the numbers spiked in like February with 10 million downloads in a month. You started to see all these people come in, and then the rooms got so big. And then they got – they even like got politicized in some ways. I don't even want to say that. They just got like crazy in some of them. And then it got to a point where you had to like ask permission to speak in rooms and say your name at the end of it. And it was so unnatural. And I started saying to myself, you know, the thing I had been so afraid of was that the LinkedIn mafia and grifter city was going to invade this app and make it difficult to go room to room and find real shit and that is exactly what happened because the difference between like twitter and clubhouse is that on twitter you can scroll quickly and get a feel get keywords and get a feel for oh no i don't fuck with that i

fuck with this okay i want to type in this word whatever on clubhouse you can only see the name of a room which that's never the only thing they talk about whatever it is right and you have to go in there and invest for a couple minutes and listen to whether these people suck or if it's like something worthwhile. And so I got to a point in March where I started going room to room like when I'd hop around. I'm like, well, this sucks. This sucks. Oh, that guy's a fucking dickbag. And then you'd see people that are, you know, they get on their high horse and they start kicking people out of rooms who disagree with them.

And I started to go, oh, shit. And then a friend of mine sent me a tweet that then went viral. kicking people out of rooms who disagree with them. And I started to go, oh, shit. And then a friend of mine sent me a tweet that then went viral. He sent it to me like three minutes before the guy posted it. But it was this – I forget the guy's name. I think he co-hosts a podcast with Chamath Palapatai. I never say his name right, so I hope I got that right. And it was like the famous VC guy who worked at – he was at Facebook growth facebook growth for a long time and it was this it became a very famous thread he wrote it on march 16th i believe and he said not that i want this to happen because i like seeing companies succeed

but i've been getting a feeling the clubhouse is going to fail and if it does here's my theory on how it's going to happen and he wrote like 45 tweets as like a, it was like a story, like a narration. And I read through it and I texted my buddy who sent it to me back. And I'm like, Bill, I don't know that I can argue with anything he said. I think he's kind of right. And he's like, bro, I think he's going to be right. And now we've seen the numbers. Like April took a swan dive.

May's not looking good. And you're seeing these rooms that used to have 5,000 people in them. When I go on the app and check it, they have fucking 100 now. Yeah, it's become – I'll definitely say that the hype, the excitement has gone away. Yeah. Because you have this brand new thing. Nobody knows. Everyone's new, right?

It's like going to college freshman year. You can start over. You can be a new person. You can start here on a new social media platform. Everyone's at zero at the same time, you know, technically. Technically, yes. And I can definitely say the excitement isn't there as much as it used to be, where I'd be like, I'm going to go in Clubhouse and be on until like 2 a.m.

and talk sports or talk tech or talk media, whatever. There's a – the word expert has been thrown around a lot. Oh, yeah. And it's like that word has been circulating around Clubhouse for months now where it's like you can't call yourself an expert if you don't have any credentials, if you don't have anything to back up what you're saying. Like, look, I can – if a fucking therapist is on Clubhouse with all her degrees in her bio and then there's evidence to show she has the right to talk about it yeah yeah you hope and you hope that it's accurate right another point but yes I can't give advice on how to live your life when you have all these different issues and I'm telling you, hey, look, fuck all that shit.

Do this, this, and this. I don't have the right to do that. No. And that is scary. And I've seen that. And people have been called out and people have been thrown into the fire, if you will, in front of hundreds of people. You can't fucking do this. And there's a lot of scammers on there, people that are trying to sell them. They're trying to be what's-his-name name the guy who looks like an eastern island head fucking

um a what head one of those eastern island heads the fucking um he's like a motivational speaker um big teeth what's his name uh david milzer no not milter i know who that is um big guy he's huge billions of dollars um think of motivational speakers i don't know i'm like forget i'm like not grant cardone no people don't like him yeah at all yeah no it's the same shit over and over and over again he's terrible on the app people fucking hate that guy i'm like trying to think of the guy's name he's like the biggest motivational speaker on the planet what some? Some dude, some guy. I'm like forgetting his name.

Either way. Okay. Whatever. People will try to be, they're trying to be this motivational speaker or this. Including like 20 year olds. Which pissed me the fuck off, man. I'm like, when I'm listening to a 22 year old telling me how to live my life, motherfucker, you don't know shit.

You don't know anything. You don't know anything. You just graduated college, and you think you got all figured out. Everyone watch Gary Vee videos, and this is the downside of it. I love Gary Vee. But that's the thing. His context, he's made a lot of people think some things about themselves or capabilities about themselves or not even capabilities, like things where they are meant to be. He makes it seem like, oh, you can totally be there. And it's like, well, not everyone,

not maybe not everyone's going to be that type of guy. And then all these people hear it, and what happens is they get so excited by it, and they feel the motivation. So then they just want to pass that on to other people. And then they're fucking 21 with no experience sitting in their parents' house and talking about how when it gets hard, you just got to push through. Go to the next level. And it's like you're also not very convincing doing it right but i mean like i like gary v i've listened to his stuff i've um do i believe everything that he always says no but not you're not talking about tony robbins by the way i am talking about it was tony robbins he what'd you say he's an easter island head yeah he's just his

head's fucking huge am i wrong what's he's got a huge head but what's an easter island like isn't easter island one of those like the giant like like um sculptures like those huge sculptures i have no idea but he just looks fucking he's gonna everybody wants to be like tory robbins on clubhouse you know what i think dude you know what i fucking 15 minutes to figure out the fucking you know what i think was one of the biggest mistakes they made it was one i saw right away and i didn't think much of it. I'm like, ah, it won't matter that much. They allowed the profiles to be like 5,000 characters.

Oh, look at mine. And yours is long, but not in the context of this app. Yours is way longer than I would do, but it like it's all in one spot right and so what happens is everyone linkedin like the linkedin mafia came in and people followed that and what they do is you know you could be a fucking janitor and they will make it sound like they they founded the 33rd fucking basketball team in the nba i mean it's like there's some people where it's like you oh my god and and there was there were funny threads going around in february that i loved that was like elon it would be like famous people elon musk

you know bill gates whatever and and then it would say elon musk elon musk on clubhouse and like it would have the first one would be like elon musk like dogecoin to the moon because like that's just what he would put in there or like hashtag bitcoin too soon with that but the second one would be Elon Musk and it would list all the shit he did and try to make it sound like prose and you're reading it and you're like oh my god that's what people do because you would read that you'd be like this guy doesn't fucking do any of this yeah you know you know what the excitement came from the fact that me, you, and a bunch of other people are starting at the same time as Elon Musk or as Tim Dillon or as, you know, Lex Friedman.

Right, we're all there at the same time, and we're all trying to figure out together. It's not like, you know, we're all, like, imagine we, I mean, I know I wasn't. Like, imagine if I jumped on Twitter when Twitter first came out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's an excitement where an app that's become, it's, what are they worth?

$4 billion now at Clubhouse? They got evaluated at $4 billion? They're not worth anywhere near that now. Whatever it is. Yeah. But the excitement for that, I was like, dude, I tried to convince my friends. They're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. for that i was like dude i tried to try to convince my friend they're like what the fuck you talking about yeah yeah it's just i started to notice that too because then like as it got more

as more people used it you know the funny thing is they locked it off you had to get invited but still it was almost like people joined too fast and there was too many new people every day and so you couldn't keep up with it in the sense that they're learning rooms and then they're like invading rooms too because they don't know what to do and there's this i started to feel it it's like it's like we got off the training wheels way too fast yes and and you just said something important there where you're like you know being first to something and how cool that is one of the things that i also discounted at the beginning because again like and maybe part of it was it was coming out still like mid-pandemic and people were just dying to fucking talk to each other but i wasn't i do this for a living right i talk to

people all day like you know like when i'm not editing i'm fucking on the phone with people or i'm sitting in here for hours with people so it's not like i was craving that at all but i just thought it was fucking cool and i'm like oh and a lot of people are probably craving this but i've always looked at like my theory and it's not my theory this is definitely like a known thing but it's it's pretty obvious when you look at every social platform that's ever grown i'll even start at my space but you know what discount them call it facebook right like one that's still around. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, even kind of YouTube back in the day, right? Different, not totally social, but you'll get where I'm going with this. were started as as in not necessarily started but the people who went there in mass first were between the ages of 12 and 18 and i would even say that like 15 to 17 year old range culture goes where the people who are literally at the earliest stages of coming of age go and

the one thing clubhouse didn't have that i thought man that's cool it's an outlier and now i look back and i go no it wasn't that's why is that they didn't really have a ton of really young people on there the people who were stars on the app were fucking millennials or even like some gen xers and that it's more proof that when you need the luster on the app you got to get the kids first even if that means people make fun of it. Like with TikTok. I was on TikTok on a blank account because I worked at a fucking bank. I couldn't do anything on TikTok.

I was on TikTok in early 2019. And I tried to tell everyone I fucking know who had a talent about it and say, drop everything you're doing and go to TikTok. And they all laughed at me. Said, oh, that's all for the fucking 12 year olds, 13 year olds. And I'm like, you say that now,

that's where people are going to be. I never had that moment with clubhouse because they weren't fucking there it was the older yeah no you're right you're right and it's um and it's so weird because they just i don't know if it's still but the invite only thing was very interesting yeah where you can only get on the app if someone invited you, nominated you to come. And they just invited Android now. They have, their infrastructure is strong enough for the most part that they can have. They were iPhone only. iPhone only. And now, I mean,

Android's fucking huge. Yeah. People don't realize because everybody has an iPhone, but you have a, everyone on the other side of the world there's billions of people and they a lot of them have android you know that's a huge chunk that's not on the app now and i have this talk with my friends all the time and right we got on mid pandemic end of january things are still shut down and we were also cured remember this is important

we were curating our rooms like we had good rooms of these weren't the huge rooms of like 500 people 15 yes small yes and what was interesting is that now i talk to friends now where i'm in rooms all the time with the same people and we have a click a cool group of friends and we talk offline and we always say like hey so this going to be big in the summer? Where this was like April we were talking about this. Yeah. March, talking about, hey, look, vaccines are starting to come out. While vaccines come out, people get vaccinated. Of course, the restrictions will get lighter and lighter.

Sure. So it's like, is this app still going to be popping and still going gonna be excited to be on in the middle of july and i was on the optimistic positive side like yeah it's still gonna be good it's still gonna be exciting and i had some friends say hey i think i think it's gonna be extremely different than it was before and now i kind of agree with them. I don't want to be on my phone while I'm at a bar in the city. And you can't click in and click out. You can click in and click out of Instagram and Twitter.

Two seconds, right? You can't really do that on Clubhouse. You can if you're just sitting in the audience. If you're just sitting there listening, you can just click out easily. But don't you want to talk about the topic you're in the room for and also you're around what happens when you're around other people you're gonna be sitting there in the middle of a bar listening to fucking clubhouse no you're not people will fucking smack you over it's like yeah your phone whereas whereas you can send a quick tweet at the bar and then close your phone

exactly right boom it's like you're sending a text look i'm always positive with like this i want to i want to be on the right side i don't i don't want to really think about the real thing that's going to happen like i think clubhouse is going to be around for a while i just don't think it's going to be popular in the next year or two i just i just don't see how does it have staying power because unless i'm twitter figured it out twitter's got spaces right but it's all it's all about advertising and getting – look, the NFL just partnered with Clubhouse recently. You know what, though? The other problem was shitting where you eat.

And this was an issue. One of the things I liked about it is that the founders, Paul and Rohan, would be in a lot of the big rooms. And they wouldn't be on stage most of the time. They'd be right there. Because as soon as they go on stage, the room blows up to 7,000 people well not even just that They'd be I'm talking about rooms that were already big right like when there was the max at 5,000 They'd be right there right in the audience right at the top listening in and even when people were criticizing things on the app

They were listening and I'm like wow these guys are like really in there The people who invested in the company though, Andreessen Horowitz, which is an amazing venture capital firm. I mean it's one of the most historical ones out there. They started becoming stars on the app. Like they had the Good Time Show and everything. And then they had Elon Musk come in there one time. They had Mark Zuckerberg another time and i started to notice that these people these are people who are great venture capitalists but they never had a podcast or something like that like that wasn't their lane and now now they were incentivized to also be on

the app all the time because they were invested in the goddamn company and they were kind of like getting high on their own supply and not noticing some of the very problems that were happening prime example by the way um what's his name horowitz's wife felicia horowitz ended up being like a mate she was there day one of the app obviously she ended up being like a major host on the app for like a couple weekly shows that would have 5 000 and then eventually whatever the maximum was 10 000 people in the room and like serious people that she was interviewing they would put like gail uh what's her name gail uh okay yeah gail king van jones like some big people they would put them up on stage with felicia for these rooms and they'd sit there and not say anything and felicia who's not a pro like them like not

on that level at all is is fucking running the room and sometimes it was awkward and i'm thinking to myself why the fuck do you just like you're bringing up gail king does and gail's probably fucking you know going about her day and just is doing them a favor to sit on stage and have her face up there and why are you not leveraging that leverage the talent and there was such a mistake with that because then you know even the good time show had the people literally from andreessen horowitz hosting it and i'm like they're not like that good at this you know and so there was a mistake there's an ego thing too yeah so but like i think i think the app needs to like of course the purity of is that there's no video and there's no chat rooms yeah yeah it's all about back channeling you go to instagram twitter if you want to get extensive conversation right making deals or making

communications whatever but um i'm going to continue to be on it as much as i can you're using it well i might add and i'm not just plugging you here like you know you got out in front of being like in charge of the official mlb page which is pretty cool and we're still curating great rooms yeah there's a lot of other baseball rooms and i have people coming in and you know i let them do it but they plug their own clubs and whatever but you know it's like the baseball community is pretty small on clubhouse and i i there's like this clubhouse twitter page not the main one but there's another one for like statistics. And I'm ranked in the top 10 baseball rooms every month so far.

I'm like eighth or ninth, but it's kind of annoying that the other seven or eight clubs that are in front of me are categorized in baseball because they generally talk about all sports. So it's just like, it's just in that category, which is annoying you took those people away it was just talk about general baseball i'd probably be one or two when it comes to followers and whatever but um did i do it because i'm trying to grow my own following that's a fucking lully i'm trying to grow myself and show people that i have you know i have knowledge i have talent I have experience talking about baseball. That's what's my number one sport. I played in college. I played my whole life. I've covered it before. And I'm also trying to make, you know, I'm trying to make contacts. I'm trying to bring some people that I know onto the app so I can interview them on the app and kind of help

the baseball community. The head of sports, I think think it is on clubhouse just followed the club the other day that's cool which is big i got very nervous right away when i created it because it's mlb you know ip is very important you don't want it and i remember when in the beginning you could only have a club you could request for a club, but you needed to host rooms three times a week for three or four weeks. And then they review your request, and they see through information of how many rooms you've hosted or whatever. And then they approve it. And I didn't even do that because I wasn't hosting rooms that often so i waited until clubhouse let the floodgates open where it was you can have do you can create two rooms a month and i remember

i was working at wfan late shift like i always do and i stayed later so i know so i had the ability to create the club as soon as the update came out yeah i waited an extra hour so i don't want to be driving on you know over the bridge and it opens up and i'm gonna get in the car accident i'm putting the together so i made it and i was so excited right very smart thank you i was so excited mlb on ch because you actually couldn't put clubhouse in the title for some reason you can't have it so i did that and then i made the second room was like a backup because i don't know if like they would kick it off because it has mlb on it but as right now it's been great nothing's happened and i remember that night was so hectic because people

you know fuck the app was crashing because everyone was trying to create a club and i got in quickly and then i went into a room with an ip lawyer in it and there was 400 people in it yeah some people i knew that were moderators on the stage brought me up because they knew i was creating a room a club and i asked the question the topic came up about like brands yeah i said they're like you know you get lucky you can lucky, you can have your own room, whatever the company is. And I said that on stage, it was the first room I went into. The second room I went in was the IP lawyer. The first room I went in was a bunch of people that had huge followings, 10,000, 12,000, 20,000 followers.

And I said that I just created a baseball room called MLB on CH. And they all started laughing because they said, Taylor, you might have hit a gold mine. Because there's situations where, well, seo city wrong one mlb can come to me and say like we want this we'll buy from you whatever is it happening super slim yeah two emily can come to you say we want to partner with you you host rooms we'll pay you it's a job three you were taking it i get and that's where the ip thing comes right and then i i got super excited and then i got nervous and then i saw this ip room and i'm on the i'm on the way home and i'm listening to clubhouse and i like my ear my airpods and and i asked the question and she basically told me they can just

take it from you because this is major league Baseball, a billion-dollar company. They're not going to fuck around. Yeah, you have a whole legal team, right, to fight that bad boy? Yeah, I got a whole fucking legal team. There's fucking 20 people behind me. You got like 12 of the boys from Long Island lined up with bats and everything.

Yeah, and then when she said it, I left the room, and I started sweating. I'm like, oh, fuck. And nothing would happen to you. They'd just take it. They'd just take it, but I don't want it. I want to have it. Yeah. And then you put put disclaimers out so this is a fan page we're not affiliated whatever so I did my due diligence I did my homework I asked people that have been

situations in your past on Facebook or Instagram and then it's like you know you're fine as long as no one comes after you I said well thank you what does that mean yeah what the fuck's that come out bash my fucking door in but look like, the grand scheme of things, I want to grow baseball on the app. I want to grow it. I want to grow sports on the app because I want to just become the guy that people come to. Well, are you looking – the other thing is like you are building – you have built a community there. You have built a name there. Yeah.

People have effectively moved that to spaces as like you don't have to leave Twitter to do it. Have you looked at also doing that over there? I've looked at it. I haven't because – which is fucking crazy. You should do that. I've gained more followers on Clubhouse since January to now. I have more followers on Clubhouse than I do on Twitter, and I've had Twitter for – Twitter's weird getting followers, man.

It's so fucking hard. I never even talk about my Twitter. People don't understand. If you are trying to get into the sports media space or entertainment or whatever you're trying to do in that realm, it is so hard to get a following. You have to be funny on Twitter.

You have to be creative. You have to throw memes and videos. You have to be on there 24-7. And I am. And it's annoying. I hate it. But you have to be incredibly there 24 7 and i am and it's annoying but i hate it you have to be incredibly strategic on there 24 7 and like you're on it but like you're doing a lot of other shit too because you run all your own shit you are responsible for your entire product there's a

level to which like based on the work you do and how you're building you can't do what some of these other guys did where they just sit there all fucking day like prime example the pomp's younger brother i think it's joe right he's got a sports newsletter he does two things all day nothing else he does fucking making his newsletter which how's he making his newsletter he's amalgamating things off of twitter that's his news source and then also interacting on there and he's spending his every week and second on twitter and putting out value there 24 7 creating threads that are very retweet retweetable because they're on specific things that he does research on so he's built a huge following that's how you do it like you know if you wanted to break down and do something like that great but like i love twitter and i'm a

writing guy so i can write some great tweets and whatever but twitter is like my private diary in a way right now like i don't fucking you know i got 10 fucking people on there and like i go there as my source for news and i don't it is not worth my time to invest in actually doing that stuff but i think with spaces this is why it's important i think you can drive there because you have the credibility of that other community and frankly we are seeing a big whether or not clubhouse ends up staying around or not like they'll definitely make something off their ip if they sell it but we're seeing a big community move to twitter yeah and i think i think what clubhouse i think i think they're gonna do where i think the purity will go away of how unique Clubhouse is,

they're going to start bringing in celebrities and bringing in names. They already have. Right. But I'm saying, like, I'm talking the biggest fucking names. Yeah. Kardashians. They brought in Eminem the other day. Yeah.

Right. They have, you know, there's people that are willing to go on. Like, there was Tim Dillon who was on it for a while. He's out, man. He's done. He's fucking doing his job job now this is what we're talking about he's back on the road doing his gigs but he also and that's the issue guys who were a big fan of it are speaking out against it he's going out of his way to say this app is terrible that's a problem that's a brand problem and you guys they gotta just find the right people yeah and that's it and look it's

uh for young people like you and i who are trying to grow personal brands and content grand brands the personal brand yeah personal brand right it's hard people people don't really get it when you're when you want to be in the sports industry they don't get how hard it is they just talking to friends and they say hey you're doing a good job you're grinding but like you don't want to have lives man why don't you come out this weekend yeah no like you you don't yeah you don't get a family they just they'll say like you know we get it but do you though this is with and and like you talk about sports and you're 100 right but it's with anything that you're building. If – once you go do it, when you burn the boats and say like I'm putting all my efforts into this.

And everything in the pot. You know, for you, I know you spend – 100% of your time is spent filling gigs at WFAN for you to make some money, right? And also you're at one of the granddaddies of them all. You know, you're at WFAN, so it's nice. You get good connections there. And the rest of your time is spent on your product and spent on building yourself out as a preeminent leader. You want to be a leader in the baseball space specifically, but you obviously know about all the sports. And you can definitely, if you want to, morph into all of them.

Sure. People that don't have that as their vision, who don't miss their brother jake's graduation again you jake on a sunday to go do some to go i don't mean it jake i'm sure you're a nice guy you know your brother loves you too i promise you but you know people who are willing to do that to go be like yo okay here's the value i can get to be able to continue to build my public resume right and and also get the reps in and everything the people who aren't doing that shit they're never gonna get it and like you have to but that's the thing you gotta be okay with that you have to be okay with like someone just being like what the fuck is wrong with you like

someone you care about they don't mean anything by it they're just like what are you doing and you gotta be okay with saying listen man like it is what it is you See, this is something I tell, I'm very lucky I learned this early on. I learned early on a couple things. If you want to be in the business for a long time, early on, you need to learn how to do everything. Yes. Another thing is, if you want to be successful in the business, you have to be willing to not make any money. For a while for a long time yep another thing is you need to just be able to grind and be able to

be okay with missing things and and no life in life yeah missing birthdays holidays anniversary whatever the it is anything's important to you, you're going to miss it. I haven't been to a family Passover in six years because I've worked. Yeah. It's just a Christmas Eve. I work Christmas Eve. It's just like you got to just – if you want to fucking – Oh, yeah, you got both worlds.

I forgot about that. Half and half. Right. If you want to hit your goal – like I've had goals. I remember I wanted to do this for a living when I was in, like, ninth grade. Guidance counselor asked me, what do you want to do? What do you want to do in college? What do you want to do in high school?

Focus on that. I said, I can't play baseball for the Yankees. I want to interview players. This is what I want to do. It's going to take me a long time to hit the goal. I remember when I was younger, I said, 27. I want to be making six figures, and I want to do my thing. Ain't it funny how we pick that out when we're young? Like, that age, I'll have this, I want to be making six figures, and I want to do my thing.

Ain't it funny how we pick that out when we're young? Like, that age, I'll have this, I'll have that. Bro, people thought I was fucking crazy. Guys, my friends were just trying to get girls in college. I'm working on my career. I'm working on trying to get my shit together. And I had goals set. I wanted to work for some sports team at 21.

I did it at 20. Well, you did do that. I did it at 20. I said I want to work for a major league baseball team at 25. I did it at 23. I want to work for a radio station at I think it was like 26. And I did it at 24. Yeah.

So I'm hitting all these goals. And now I'm in a window where I've been working at WFAN. Do I like the job title I have? No. But I know it's a part of the gig. You need to fucking just keep working. I have a lot of friends around me that work there that just keep grinding. We're all in it together. And I've met countless people that talk, but they don't walk it.

They don't fucking do it. They just talk about doing it, and they just don't, but they don't walk it. They don't fucking do it. They just talk about doing it, and they just don't, and they quit. Well, there's another side to it too that's really important that you're not saying that I think you back up well. You can't like, yes, you absolutely must do all that stuff, and you absolutely must accept some things and be okay with it and grind and stuff. You also have to be making clear progress. you pointing out each of those steps that you

wanted even if there wasn't a month you know monetary stuff attached to it yet yeah like you hit those progress points you got to those things there are a lot of people and this is where i think and i don't think it's his intention but this is where gary v's message gets lost because people get lost and listening to him just say you just gotta fucking grind man you gotta hustle you got do you understand that i didn't fuck until i was 35 like people hear this and they're like oh that's all i gotta do not fuck till i'm 35 and just do something and like it'll work you have to be honest about where your talent is number one and you also have to be honest about what type of progress you are

making if you are just working hard every day and not getting anywhere, it's not going to fucking go anywhere and it shouldn't. And unfortunately, and I empathize so much with people like that because I see guys who are just fucking grinding and they're not getting anywhere. They're not making progress and they're like, oh, if I just keep fucking doing it, like it'll be cool. And it's like, oh, damn, like they actually are working hard,

but they're not working hard towards something and they're not going to get rewarded you've got to be really fucking careful with that and so i guess what kudos to you for being careful with that well but i'm i've had stages like that let's i won't i won't i won't lie here sure where i've been in stages where and let's be clear everybody i'm still grinding. I might have worked for the Giants, the New York Giants, Minnesota Twins. I worked for WFAN. I've done radio here and there. I've done this much, and I know that.

For the people listening, he's holding up his fingers. Yes, thank you. Very tightly together. Yes. I've done a very small amount of things. And to some people that are outside of sports, think I've done so much. And I might not give myself

credit but like i i have nowhere near where my goal is i think that's a good i think you have a good mindset i do want you to give yourself some credit but i think you have a good mindset my father gives me a lot of shit for not giving myself credit for the shit I've done. Like, you know, and I don't, I was raised not to be a bragging asshole, be very humble, but I've almost taken that humble approach too far where I'm not telling people, hey, look, like when I apply for jobs and I do, where I'm talking to people in the industry that have a higher power and I'm not, there's been – in the past, I've never like – Yeah, I know what you're saying.

I just – because I've met people that brag about shit that I'm like, you're impressed by that shit? Like that shit's not great. There's a fine line between bragging and also, what did you say earlier, owning it, right? It's a very fine line. And you have to own it. In the last year or so, I've done a lot better about promoting myself instead of bragging. Yeah. I tell people I interviewed Mike Trout, which is one of the coolest things I'll ever do.

Yeah, it's a resume builder, man. It's one of the greatest players of all time. Yeah, it's a resume builder man it's a it's a greatest players of all time yeah it's a name and the fact that i got to do that for three minutes is something that 90 of the world is never gonna be able to do a lot more than 90 but yeah whatever you know what i'm saying yes not a lot of people will ever do that and i got to do that at 23 years old which was in the coolest shit i'll ever do yeah um but yeah so i i feel like when you said about guys that are working hard and grinding, but nothing's happening, and like I said before, I've been in situations, and sometimes during the last year or so, I've been in situations like that

where I've worked my ass off, and I just don't see anything moving. And people tell me and have to keep reminding me that the sports industry is in a frozen zone. What do you mean a frozen zone? That's kind of like a term I've heard a couple times from people that are in the industry where it's like they're starting to rehire people that they fired a year ago. And nobody's hiring. Nobody's giving anybody jobs. It's a very small amount. People are getting jobs.

Why is that? The sports industry got hit pretty hard oh yeah in television oh yeah and radio entertainment they got hit very hard and some people don't like so you're not creating new jobs you're saying um some networks are creating new jobs and some people that are talented enough more talented than me are getting jobs and it's about fine it's it's about what i've learned too about this industry is about timing and it's about who you know. And that's really, that's not just sports and entertainment, that's everything.

But just in my experience, it's what I've learned last year or two, just really hitting hard. And there's been so many times over the last three years where I've felt like quitting. Like all the time but i tell myself there's like something in the back of my mind that tells me that you're talented enough and don't quit and i don't want to sound like an inspirational and motivational speaker i know what you're saying this is my own personal account where i'd be driving home from work at two o'clock in the morning i'm like this sucks i hate this i hate about making no money i'm still living at home i'm working my ass off nothing what's and then there's always one moment that like the week after something cool would happen where i'll

interview someone for my podcast where it's like i just interviewed scott hansen who hosts the nfl red zone where i interview chris rose or even craig carton or i interviewed this person or i talked to somebody and it just it tells me like hey look this is what you can do for the rest of your career if you keep pushing and that's where you that someone told me that early on when I was really young. You'll find moments in your early career that will keep pushing you. Yeah. You get a little teeny taste. A tiny taste.

And you're like, I want to make that whole entree. It's like it's right there. I'm right there. And I've been telling myself during the pandemic, I said, Taylor, you keep doing what you've been doing. Keep going a little bit harder every day there's be days where you're to have no confidence you're gonna have no ambition to do it and there's be other days you're gonna have the hardest drive ever to get your work done and i tell myself i'm serious about this and people think i'm crazy like i think I think I'm so close to starting my goal.

And then once the goal, when I touch it, when I first start the goal, that my job, whatever it's going to be, I tell somebody, I say, like, once you give me a yes, watch the fuck out. Yeah. Because I want to give you 110%. I'm going to give you a good product, whatever it's going to be.

Yeah. And you, and by the way, and I said this earlier, but you can say that a lot more than you could have two years ago a lot more yeah because the resume it's not even just more product it's better it's significantly better because you got the reps you're and you've gotten to better and better people as well you're not where i mean obviously like you have a decent audience on audio but you know you haven't even focused on youtube or something like that at all right you're not we're i mean obviously like you have a decent audience on audio but you know you haven't even focused on youtube or something like that at all right you're not even there yet but you're actually you are talking with some of these important people and you're keeping conversations

rolling and interesting and getting things that they don't get to say on their own cameras in life right like when it's a scott hansen or something he is talking about things he doesn't get like the producer is going to be like yo scott cut what what are you doing like if there's some of the things that come up in your conversation and so when people see that in the new world where they're trying to figure out what are we doing next right like who are we going to hire who's up and coming and whatever they're like oh this kid oh he gets it oh fuck it yeah come on and yeah and i've also just learned early on it's about like put as much shit out there as much and what one thing i do appreciate if it's good i i do appreciate this from gary fee and i and i take this

a lot honestly put out as much content as you want right as you keep going it's going to get better hopefully as you get more reps in, you get better and better. But the thing he said was, is that don't look at the views. Do not look at the numbers because all you need is one person to look at the talent that's there, that they can see that, hey, look, he's got, for instance, baseball perspective here. He's 18 years old, prospect in the minor leagues. He's got a couple of nice tools right there. He can hit for power, but he's 18 years old prospect in the minor leagues he's got a couple nice tools right there he can hit for power but he's striking out a lot but we see that we can

improve on him we can work with him get a little t work a couple extra shifts in the batting cage but we'll take a chance on him yep that's what happens a lot But as of late with the pandemic, you don't see this much. People aren't really taking gambles on people. They want to see people that are ready to fucking go. And you know what? Maybe it's exacerbated a little bit with the pandemic because people have been spread apart, right? And you're just trying to go what you know. I'll agree with that.

I think it's exacerbated. But that's a pattern. Before the pandemic, that's already a pattern because and we were at some point going over like the corporate mindset of these networks and what keeps them behind in it they can't take chances because they report to a guy who reports to a guy who reports to a girl and has a fucking quarterly statement to go out for the mothership company who's going to have one asshole executive be like, wait, why did we not hit that number on that page right there this month? Who's responsible? And someone gets fired. When you are operating like that, you cannot get to that authenticity. You cannot have a world where you can say, you know what? We're going to take a flyer on that person right there. We're going to think this one through a little bit.

Whereas when you're, to use your example again, like when you're barstooling, you're like, ah, fuck it, we'll do whatever the fuck we want. If it doesn't work, we'll get rid of it, whatever. And we'll tell our fucking fan base, like, ah, that didn't work. That honesty, that open, just let's throw some shit against the wall if we see something there, that's why people are winning. And that's why, like, those opportunities will come up.

But I understand what you're saying. In the broader industry, it's like a lot of other industries other industries man they don't want to take a chance at all it's tough because it's you know like you said it's all about it's like how far are you going to risk it how far are you going to risk giving someone an opportunity that doesn't have one you know so it's it's uh you know it's not like i'm fucking newbie but it's you know it's about the young guys young girls and guys out there you need to just grind you just need to meet everybody work everywhere if you can and i was taught early on just kind of bounce around yeah Yeah. My first internship, I was like 17 or 18, whatever, how old I was. I don't know, 16, 17.

I was Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yeah, you got to bet on yourself, man. You're just taking a bet on yourself and that's what it is. And that's what's interesting about the pandemic. I had always said with some of my close confidants, whether it be like Mitch and Mike or Ch or chas i always like it was almost what's the word it's almost like masochistic in a way like in a weird way i don't know if that's the word i gotta i gotta think about that but you'll see where i'm going with this i always talked

about when got bad right and what i meant by that was i had always studied the downturns in the economy and the market like i remember really paying attention i was young that was i had always studied the downturns in the economy and the market like i remember really paying attention i was young i was maybe like 13 or something but really paying attention when the housing market crashed and that was my first time in the middle of it and i would notice things like i would notice the dad who in september 08 was picking up the kid after school in you know a hundred thousand dollar mercedes and then april 2009 was picking them up in a used jeep i saw shit like that i remember walking into restaurants that usually had 40 tables filled and now had 12 seven months later and i saw these effects of things and the economy drives the vibe drives the people's vibe which drives the reaction which drives

people's motivations and it drives their priorities. And I would always talk about with my guys, I'm like, yo, when shit goes bad, because this was a long bull market and everything, right? When shit goes bad, I can't fucking wait. I'm going to run, and we're all going to do it. We're going to run right into the fire while everyone's running out. We're going to bet on ourselves when we do it. And to our credit, a lot of us have but shit went bad with covid now the economy crashed right but then there's like kind of this fake money printing economy that has recovered the stock markets

and stuff and they're up but people unprecedented right people are home people are depressed there's all these lockdowns all this all this shit and noise going on around them and a lot of people just kind of were like yeah you know i'll wait this thing out they did what a lot of people do when shit goes bad they just kind of sit there and they're like whoa i don't even want to say they're like woe is me some people are but they're not they're not saying yo what opportunities do i have right now and so like even me specifically, I was in the middle of making an industry shift at the time, which is difficult. It doesn't matter how good your resume looks. Same example with the corporations. You go to these places, you show them a resume, it looks

good, but they're like, I don't know where you fit. They don't want to think outside the box. They're like, you know what? I got 12 other people that I know exactly where they fit, so fuck you. And I'm in the middle of this whole thing. And then this hits and the whole job market goes through the floor. So that's not around. And I'm like, well, okay, what am I going to do? And I had been building this bullshit hobby on the side with no plan, and all the equipment arrives day one of quarantine on March 13, 2020. And I took one look at it, and my first thought, because the market's fucking tanking. I was still working at Merrill, and so my clients are freaking out.

It's crazy. My first thought is, what the fuck am I going to do with this shit? And then I don't know if it was like a minute, five minutes. It was quick. I was like, holy shit. I forgot I had even ordered this. That's a fucking sign. If not now, when?

Right. And then I'm like, okay, am I ready for my life to suck for a while? And I was like, yes.'m in fact i invite it not because like oh i'm gonna enjoy the shit out of that but because it's like i know that if i do it right and i and i'm honest about where i'm good and where i'm bad and i keep iterating and getting better this is the time like if if not now when we're fucking home and god knows how long this is gonna last when the fuck am i gonna do this or have this opportunity again? Now's the time and I'm going to get it done.

I have the same thing when you do. And you did it. Yeah. You did the same thing. Yeah. I would say it was – I remember I've talked to my friends before. It was this moment where it was like, am I going to sit on my ass for a little too long? Yeah.

And it was about a week or two into the when it first started getting serious and we're up in new york it was wild you know right and i remember the first week or two i'm sleeping in i'm watching documentaries movies whatever i'm just around and then you know i had the podcast at the time i'm not i'm never really got guests it was super hard because it would be on the phone and you know and i was zoom was just kicking in so i the one thing i look from the pandemic as the only blessing in disguise personally is zoom zoom for me has been a blessing in disguise this horrible year the only good thing has come out of it there's been many good things come out of it for close to home for

me and how i've tried bettering myself in my career zoom has helped me out yeah so i thought about it i said zoom i have a podcast all i need is a new mic i got the mic and one day started fucking around with it i tried skype that shit sucked terrible fucking awful hate it sorry don't like it don't apologize they suck not a better product yeah figure it out figure it out seriously and then zoom worked and then i just reached out to everybody and i can tell you i've gotten far more nos than yeses and what's your hit ratio like what's your percentage would you say fucking garbage what what's garbage roughly for every 10 people i ask i'll get one or two yeses that's a phenomenal percentage because you're you're also asking big time people too your guest

list is you know and it's either i want you people understand you're i'm sliding through the dms i'm finding emails from everywhere i'm talking to agents pr people the whole shebang yeah and if i can get i mean maybe less like one out of every 10 yeah one or two that's a good and it's hard it's hard because you're dealing with like when i can go one-on-one with the guest and ask, like, hey, can you come on 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever. I know you're busy. Just come on. Whatever. And they said, yeah, sure.

Give me your email. Boom. Week later, we do it. It's great. Tough thing is going through, like, PR, going through agents. It's the worst. I had a really funny story here. So there's this female Sports Illustrated supermodel that I happened to meet on Clubhouse.

Clubhouse has been good to you, man. Clubhouse has been all right to you. You meet her off Clubhouse? No. No, no, no. She's married. She's happily married. Okay.

Yeah, we won't. We won't touch that. We just talked shortly in a room, and then I was like, you know what? She's a Sports Illustrated. She's met athletes. Her husband's an athlete. So I was like, you know what? I'm just going to.

She's hot as shit. She's very pretty. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to try it, whatever. I slide her DMs very professionally. I say, hey, look, can you come on my podcast? I'm very interested about it. And I am very interested about how the whole process of going through the know the whole sports illustrated it's very competitive oh yeah it's extremely

you know the swimsuit edition yes yes yeah it's very very stressful and huge pile of girls that are trying to do it and she was i think a cover girl i think years ago and i asked her so yeah she's like yeah sure so she said yes her people said no and that is the most stressful shit i've had to go through where the where the talent the person i want interviews like absolutely gives me an email address hey email my people we'll get it done we'll do it next week and this day works good for me. Is this okay for you? And I said, absolutely. I always say absolutely because I make it part of my schedule. Whenever the guest is available, I'm available. Unfortunately, that's how it works.

So whenever I'm tuning into WFAN and I think I lost the producer, that's because you're in the back fucking interviewing someone. Sorry, Mike. Shut the fuck up. I'm busy. So I do this, and i get the email address from her and it's her either manager or publicist or something and i say like oh here's um hi my name is taylor um me and so and so we've been talking back and forth

the last couple hours and we are uh she wants i i'm having my podcast i'll give you the information how does that sound and you know she wants some details and you know questions or whatever and i give i have a legit generic default email that i have for every guest and i just plug and play uh questions that i i do have to write some questions out to the people that are if it's a pr that sucks it's professional it's annoying but it's professional i have to do it and i created my own and it's a pr that sucks it's professional it's annoying but it's professional i have to do it and i created my own and it's worked a lot every time i request for a guest it does work and then you go obviously like you don't get to some of those or like yes different

ones right and then i actually you finesse it yeah you have to you have to kind of work around it and then the publicist is like yeah this isn't the right time for it i'm but i was like oh but what she said she said yes and like well we're not doing it and then i said and i legit took a screenshot of the conversation and i sent it to her publicist i said hey like good for you yeah you should and i never do that you have to own it like you said you gotta you got to go get it. Yep. And I did it. And she still said no.

And it was super frustrating. And then I just said, I was like, all right, on to the next one. And that was it. And it pissed me off for about an hour. And then I went on to the next one. Yeah. And it happens. But that's the thing.

You do have to go on to the next one. And this is all on my own. Right. And you're doing this shit on your own. You don't have a fucking publicist. You don't have have pr people you don't have your own manager or agent whatever imagine how easy it'll be when you get there though i can't wait and that's and that's the going back to what i said before it's all about doing all this grind for 10 years or whatever 15 years you fucking eat fucking dog shit you're just getting your fucking teeth kicked in no one appreciate

the job you're doing you're working hard some people you'll get one hey good job every fucking year once a year sometimes and i i'm there's been times where i've gotten a lot of praise no praise even if i did a good job or good work you try to keep fucking biting the bullet and doing it because when you do hit it you're gonna look back when you're 25 26 27 and you'd be like i fucking i'm so happy that i did all this hard work and i'm fucking post up i have my own show or i work for a network and i'm a host for a show whatever it is and i'm looking and that's a problem i have people think it's like people say like i shouldn't do it i look way too far into the future yeah you look because people

think it's unhealthy you well i think it's like anything else there's a nuance to it you need to be present you need to be very present and right and i wasn't for a long time okay so that's where there's i would agree with some said people and say that part's a mistake. But it's okay to be like, if you're doing it every day, I think that's problematic. But it's okay to once in a while, again, like kind of as a check to progress, be like, yo, what's my ultimate kind of dream scenario? Okay, how am I doing anything that puts me, or am I doing some of the things that are going to be needed to put me in that position? That's okay. It's a balance, but it's also personal in my opinion. Like I know some people who do not set goals, period. They live and they're machines. They live today completely because that's what works for them. And it's, and I'm not talking

about people who are failures. I'm talking about people who are doing some really cool shit right and then i know other people who all they do is set goals right and it works for them there is a balance to it i do think that when you're just completely like oh yeah i can't wait till i do that oh oh my god oh yeah what was i doing like when you start to get distracted like that all the time, it's a problem. But look, this is an important conversation in the sense that it is – it's everything. It is not just going into media or doing something like that. And media is difficult because you have to put yourself out there and you have to be open to a lot of criticism including from people you don't know. But I think it's – I got to tell you. I think it's a huge, huge blessing because if you

are in something like this, you need to be interested in people. You need to be interested in all types of people, not just fucking famous people and shit. And the things you learn about what people are thinking or what's going through their mind when you have some sort of platform you're building and you're talking with people and you're reading comments on stuff to see where it's at. I love it man like even on even on tiktok people there's a lot of incognito accounts there so people will say whatever the fuck they want and they may be like you know from behind a keyboard

way too harsh on shit i actually really enjoy it because i i am learning a lot no like seriously i don't get nasty at all in the comments like some of the videos i've done that have 5 000 comments on them where 2 000 people are like that's fucking amazing man and 2 000 people are like yo you're a fucking asshole i like it all like i actually the positive ones i'm like it's more or less like all right let me respond and thank you for doing that whatever but i'm not get that reinforcement's like great but it's not you're not learning from that right i'm learning a lot from combining who i see positive responses from and kind of you know sometimes looking at the account cleaning what i can and then whom seeing

the negative responses to and what they're saying because then the way i'll go back at them and this is where i learned so much is i'm like especially when i'm putting opinions out that are on tough issues i'm like yo i totally get it opinions out that are on tough issues i'm like yo i totally get it this is a really tough issue you have a different opinion no problem can you state your case like i'll listen 90 of the people never come back because either they're nasty or more likely they did a quick side swipe comment and didn't think anything of it and then they're like oh shit he responded and then they're just like well that's how and that's how a lot of things that's how that's how it is that's how a lot of things are on the internet but 10 of the people come back

and i end up we have nice conversations because they're so shocked that someone's not like fuck you you know what i mean right and the things i learn about why people arrive at the things they do is amazing and i find myself like i have to think in this job i have to be very focused on the person across from me and seeing what their vibe is today and what they want to talk about. And then, you know, you start thinking about are thinking the same way this must be like a thing right and there's there's a gleaning process there that it's i think it can be used in anything but in media you have to be willing to and this is why i'm tying it back you ha in order to get that type of attention and and that type of material that you can learn from you got to put yourself out there. And you got to be willing to be like, yo, yeah, the criticism is going to come.

Let's take it. The only thing as like a side note that I will be aggressive on in the comments, very aggressive, like scorched earth. And I'm not killing people, but I'm like, I will come back at them publicly is when people will try to say, yo, this is a scripted podcast or something. I defend my brand very heavily, but then I say, I send them. I'm like, go look at the video here. Please tell me where there's a script. There's three cameras, right? And what's funny is a lot of those guys end up subscribing, and they're like, you know what?

Actually, I'm surprised. I'm used to podcasts being shitty like this. This is cool. That's the only thing I get nasty on. But people that are closed-minded that are in this type of business whether it be sports news current events what just fucking talking like this whatever it is they're not going to get anywhere because a they're going to be afraid to put themselves out there because they don't want people to disagree with their opinions and b when they actually go to do that and you know then

they're trying to start conversations with people they're trying to start conversations with people, they're not going to be able to because they're fucking hacks. They're like, nope, this is what I think, that's it. Can't be like that. People thrive off of negativity. People thrive from saying, this video sucks, send.

People love, because it's easy. It's easy. It's hard to be be nice it's easy to be a prick yep and guess i and it's so funny to me when i see if it's on something like yours or anybody that's it's in this space and when i read comments and it's like i don't understand how you can watch a video probably more than once and then write that i just my brain does not calibrate that way and it will it never will i'm never a guy to talk shit on a social media platform you're not i'm not have i talked shit about something that maybe deserves it like the other day angel hernandez was just a umpire terrible i'm fucking the worst

the worst umpire and he but you'll understand that everybody is on the same side it's angel hernandez over here and everybody else is over here it's equal it makes sense for me to say something i'm not going to comment if it's a heartwarming video and i say oh this blows but there but that's the thing you and me we don't do that we don't think like that right no a lot of people out there do believe it or not scary and like and what's scarier is you know some of them and you don't realize it right i and i do at the same time and but what's scary is that there's this whole pandemic people have been home yeah and they're look we've all had moments during the pandemic

where we've been stressed anxiety we've been upset we've been fucking angry and a lot of those all combined together are not a good cocktail and people go to the internet to voice their which is kind of circling back on one of the conversations we had about having everyone has an opinion and then if someone they don't some people don't realize how much work you put into putting a video out they don't get that you have been you we do an interview we do an interview for three hours and then you have to go re-watch it for another three hours time code it figure out what you want to put on social and then when you put it on social before that you're fucking editing it putting other clips in you're changing directions on the camera why do people buy into it though because i don't know because because they're I want to say because they're interested because it's just there on social media, I guess, right?

You're 100% right. But the second reason is, and that's why it's not a guarantee of stuff, is it good, right? And that ties back to another thing we said. You put in all that effort and you know like i'm sitting across from you i know you know about this because this is what you do like you know when i'm sitting across from other people sometimes i gotta be like i wonder if they know and i don't want to sit here and be like this is all the shit i do or whatever but you do put in all that time but the market is the arbiter of truth in the long run not in the short term things take time people don't buy into things

early you can even see it on like posts. People are less likely to like a post on a social platform if it just got put up. Maybe not on Instagram. On other platforms, right? When it's got a low amount of likes. Yeah. When it starts to get a higher amount of likes, the like ratio goes up. Because now people, you know, they can fade into the crowd.

Same thing when you're building anything. Like people are less likely to subscribe to something, you know,'s like oh this has fucking 10 subscribers it's got 10 000 they're more likely hit the button right so there's the arbiter of truth is the quality but your point is well taken in the sense that a lot of the people who put out this criticism and stuff where it doesn't even have to do with the video itself and like whether or not it was quality or not they just like saying something negative because they're like fuck this person for even trying they're just reflecting their own securities and insecurities in my opinion because some of those people not all of them but some of them they've wanted to do something like this and

they've thought of every reason why they can't and they don't fucking do it and then they say you know what fuck this guy for doing what I wanted to do and you know what I feel bad for them for that i don't get mad at them spot on man and and that's a lot of people in um seeing a lot of that where it's you you know i'll go on someone's video someone posts a cool video whatever it is and someone says something nasty and then you look at that person's profile and then you see like you know yankee ranger met giant fan die hard you know and it's like okay so they're giant sports fan they're a huge sports fan maybe they wanted some sort of career to get to get into it you know and it's there's a lot of like i mentioned before there's a lot of people i

just talk about what they want to do they're just not doing it and then they get jealous of other people that are succeeding that that's that they're we're trying just trying just trying yeah and i've had i can say this i've had friends who are not friends with anymore say to me why don't you just like quit like you're working too hard why why and i'm like oh you don't you don't you don't get it you're you do regular sales whatever yeah ashton ashton larrell was just in here last month talking about the same exact thing and i love this point you just you just don't get it you know, I don't want to offend anybody, but anybody can do sales, but not everybody can do what I'm doing. And I'm doing it at this level, low level, I'm not super low, but I'm saying I'm working my way up in an industry that's super competitive, that a lot of people like to watch and a lot of people want to

do yeah i i and i wouldn't i'd be careful too i'm always careful with generalizations i say because i say in some episodes and i might have just offended no no no when when guests do i'll hedge on some of it because i i agree with your point it's not like anyone can do something like sales but the barrier to entry to doing it is much lower because you can hide behind other people. When you are creating media, to your point, and especially when it's like, yo, I'm going to create my show. You have to put your face out there and you have to have the social tension of being okay with that. There's a lot of risk involved. There's a lot of risk involved.

And you can fall flat on your face day after day after day after day. And people can say, you fucking suck. You're not good at this. You'll never be good at this. Quit now while you're ahead and just don't do it. And luckily, I haven't seen a lot of that. I've had people tell me in person, hey, I think you're not great at this. And I said, well, okay, you're wrong.

I appreciate your opinion. Thank you. But I'm going to stick to working hard and doing it well there's a question for you actually because there's that fine line where you're not taking criticism where some of it's like pretty legit now let me back up for a second when i edit this thing i'm used to it now because i do it 24 7 i'm used to editing myself and whatever. But even to this day, all the littlest things I do wrong, and I know you can relate to this. You're like, oh, fuck.

Why did I say that word? Or why did I have that filler? Like there's always shit you can improve on, right? And so even when people are looking out for you and it doesn't seem that way, they may notice that you say a certain filler word too much and they may be getting on you about it. And it's helpful and it might not come across that way. They may notice that you say a certain filler word too much and they may be getting on you about it. And it's helpful and it might not come across that way. That said, there are also people who just make the assumption that you can't be, you know, one of the people who makes it because that doesn't happen to normal people like us. That's not, no, that's not going to happen, right? And so then they put that criticism out and it

manifests the other way and they're like no you're not good at this fuck you get out you know and so i guess what i'm trying to say is you have to know where there is legitimate oh no they're right about that thing yeah and i can improve on that versus no who the fuck are you fuck off like that's not you know you're not attracting to my vibe here and that has nothing to do with what's actually needing to improve here. And like, yeah, I am pretty good at this and I'm going to make it. See, the thing is, I take constructive criticism because I like it. I like when people tell me this is not great. But I like it only from people that know what they're talking about.

I'm talking about people that are in the business that have either been in a long time or they've been in a long enough, longer than me, right? Now, look, if someone's new in the business and they give me opinion on what they think of what, sure, what I'm doing, if you're just in the business altogether, I want to hear from you because you know something of what I'm trying to put out. You know how to do maybe this much of what I'm doing, and you have an idea. Hey, maybe you can put this segment here instead of here. Yes.

And guess what? I'm going to listen to it, think about it, and if I agree to it, I'm going to change it. And if I don't, I'm not going to. But I'm going to listen because you're in the same realm if joe schmoe from the comment section doesn't like what i'm talking about and thinks it's shit yeah whatever i'm not i'm just yep see ya that's it yeah because you just don't you don't know you don't know how things it doesn't you don't know how it goes you don't know

how you put a show together you don't know how to structure a podcast you don't know how it goes. You don't know how you put a show together. You don't know how to structure a podcast. You don't know how the editing goes. You don't know shit. They'll also just be shutting down an opinion they didn't like, though, and then broad brushing the whole product. But also the comments. Like, oh, you must suck, you know? And the comments section is a – it's also – there's negative things and positive things with the comments section. It's a beautiful place to see a fan base generate yes agreed slowly yes in the comments section companies have gotten big because of the comments section you know and it's just it is a beautiful

thing watching some small podcast become a giant overnight you know but that's the thing though too generally like this isn't a podcast but like can a dog face 208 happen yeah you know the guy rides a skateboard drinks the juice plays a song in the background people are like fucking he's huge it can happen very rare right and so when we see things happen overnight where suddenly something has a following chances are there were a lot of lean times leading up to that like they didn't have a following for a long time and then people come across it they're like holy shit this is a gold mine or whatever and then they're big that's what i'm saying all it takes is one yes or one video or one photo or

something it just takes one i i forgot who was but he would post fucking videos all the time and nobody's watching nobody gives a shit and then one of them clicked well you were somewhere in here a few minutes ago i think you had mentioned like the gary v point on just making a whole bunch of shit and keeping on putting it out there the one thing i gotta check on that that i disagree with him on is that kudos to him when he was coming up in the early days of social media and fucking turn the camera around and try and wines out like that worked because there was a low supply. The thing about today's environment is that people are very quick to judge. And if you put out, you can't just put out content to put out content. If you put out

content that sucks, which some point you are going to do something wrong, right? But if you put out 10 in a row row because it's like, oh, I just got a post. I need more, more, more, more, more. You're going with them, to the minimal number of people to press them forward. So it better be perfect and it better hit those people at the best possible time of their day where they happen to take an action in the engagement and now it has a shot. You can't put out bad shit consistently. You have to put out things that actually have a level of quality to them and you have to iterate to get to that quality what happens if you're like an 18 year old kid in your first internship and you're getting some airtime on radio whatever and it's gonna be garbage but you need to put it out there like i i i have i have the feeling where it's like i think to motivate yourself and to you're gaining um i know what you're saying now yeah go ahead you're gaining i can't think of the word hall you're gaining um you're encouraging yourself like hey look i gotta get some sort of attitude

i gotta be okay with putting out there and a lot of kids are just scared to push out there because they think it's gonna be they're gonna going to be destroyed because there's not 500 likes or there's not 1,000 likes on there. There's only 20 or there's only 20 views instead of 200, and they're freaking out. I'm never going to post again. Right. So my advice there and advice, very big air quotes there, is that for that example example let's say someone gets 30 minutes of air time if it's not great but you need to get yourself comfortable with yo this is the first step and I agree with that don't cut it up into 60 30 second clips and release 60 30 second clips over the next

60 days yeah cut it up into three and release them over the next three months and then let people track it slowly and then you dissect that 60 that 30 minutes and you listen to it over and over and over again and you figure out what you need to fix and then you do it again and again again i agree with you i think the way you're looking at this is correct yeah and that's how i was raised i was like and not raised but how it's always brought up in the industry it's like and i was so afraid to do my own to put stuff out when i was younger yeah because one i didn't know how to edit that great i started editing when i was younger yeah because one i didn't know how to edit that great i started editing when i was in high school but you know as you do more of it like anything

you do more of it you get better at it but i was extremely nervous putting out stuff um the very first time i did radio was in college and it was so funny dude like this i was talking about way before i was in a mansion because france asked as a goat and he just you know we just tell tell her tell her i'm not a goat five guy the five hours of the pope whatever you want to call him the guy talks five hours straight yeah by himself and i remember this radio station to my college it was it was garbage and it was i remember it was my sophomore year i was like all right i'm gonna i'm gonna go like look see what this is about and then there was like a block of time on the list was available i was like all right wednesday is nine o'clock i'll do it for a semester see how it goes man dude first of all

you listen to the radio your whole life but when you get in it and you're sitting in it you fucking go blank yeah and i remember there was like the plexiglass right and the other side was the producer and i stared into the plexiglass for an hour straight and i didn't know didn't know i didn't know how they structured the radio show i didn't know i could like play music as a commercial break i went one hour straight without commercial breaks that was the best practice ever dude i was stressing out and guess how many people listened six people yeah my five roommates and my dad and then maybe a couple of his buddies and like they would call in different names and it was great i and but it was like the call-in feature was so stupid. The phone was sitting right here.

So you'd be listening to the show, and you would hear the phone ring. I go like this. I'm taking one of my headphones off. Oh, this is some old-school shit. Take the phone, put it here so it's close to the microphone. The phone is close to the microphone. I'm talking. It was so ass backwards, and there were so many times the producer was sleeping

producer said it was just high definitely yeah and the producer be like i'm gonna go get some dinner i'm gonna go get another edible there was one it was the last show i did because i was furious how it did how they ran it there was i didn't know at the time i was in the studio there was a like network shutdown in our college the network server went out for like two hours right when i started my show i was gonna say while you're on there from eight to nine or nine to ten whenever it was and there was no producer the producer's like hey um all you do is press play whatever so there wasn't anybody to tell me that the server went out the network server went out so i recorded a

pod a radio show that nobody listened to so i was talking to myself for an hour no idea i'm and i have my phone on airplane mode turn back on i'm getting a bunch of messages like yo we can't hear anything and i'm freaking out i'm like i just wasted an hour of my life doing this i didn't because you thought the whole thought was you thought you were on there and you were getting reps. And then I find out as soon as I get back to my apartment, I was like, yeah, there was no internet. The servers were done. And I was so angry. But it's those learning experiences that you have to have.

Like the one I said before, I was with the Minnesota Twins and I got thrown into it and I got yelled at by a player. But you have to learn those early on because you don't want to learn those that that that kind of stuff that those experiences later on in life you want to learn the fucking the tough shit where the servers go out and it's all you know it was it's funny talking about it now but the moment was fucking irritating well we're still in the middle i mean knock on wood here, the vaccine is spreading far and wide and everything. So it seems like, it appears like we're coming out on the other side of this thing finally. But we've been in this for 15 months or 16 months, whatever it is. And you were talking about something a little bit ago where, you know, everything was exacerbated with emotion during this time.

People are home. They got nothing to do. It's 100% right. But looking back on – it's just reminding me of this. You're looking back on some of these experiences where you got to learn some stuff. Do you find that during this whole time where you're on an island pretty much, it's like it's harder to put yourself in some situations because it's not even real and you're like we're all separated anyway and everyone's just fucking miserable so like is this even like

is there more doubt that you have or have had because like the world is just in a fucking miserable place you're saying doubt of like just how my career is going kind of way not even no no not even that broadly i'm saying like in in creating content and doing what you're doing, is there like, I'm probably not asking this right. I know what, this is one of those things where I know what I want to ask, but it's very hard to put in words. Is there like a part of you that's thinking

everything is so negative right now that even when I put myself out there, quote unquote, and I'm putting out content content and maybe on some things I'm not seeing the results I want to get or whatever, it's exacerbated you feeling down on yourself about it or like, oh, this isn't going right or whatever. And it's harder to put yourself in those situations where it's like, yo, no, this was a really good learning experience because I'm not going to that up again you know it's definitely the time because i think um during the last whatever 15 months or so it seemed like everybody in anything you you don't you would do it has to be perfect and has to be right yeah and putting out video content or audio content it's not possible to put out perfect stuff it's just not and personally for me i've gone to i've had points where i don't want to do it like i've done there was a couple weeks i didn't do a podcast because i was so stressed out about like i don't have a guest this week. Fuck. I don't know. The sports are, there's nothing really going on in sports.

Fuck. Yeah, it was stopped. And then, but there was even times of like, fucking a couple weeks ago. I'm just struggling. And I, you have to, it's a never ending race. Yeah. To compete with everybody. Yes.

It's exhausting i want to hit a point in my career where i know i did my all i worked my ass off and i've hit i made the money i want to make uh there's i have a name and under that name i have a bunch of shit that i've done and i and look do i want to be the best to ever do it? Yes. But the last year, I don't want to stress myself out to the point of exhaustion and I'm depressed to do this shit anymore, to be number

one. I want to be the best to ever do it. I think I can, but it's all about timing and working hard and everything in the universe needs to hit at the same time to start it. And once you start the fucking, the goal you want to hit in your career, then you need to look at what you got and what you're in the moment right now. And then you kind of progress and keep that train going.

It's just the whole thing is stressful, and this whole year has been stressful with everything. Yeah, and you live up in New York. You've been there the entire time, and we all know because I was still living up there in North Jersey when this thing hit, and I was up there for a couple months at the beginning, and we all know it was a cyclone. And the people in states

that were less affected by covid may not be able to understand that and that's why some of them don't get everything that happened and to some extent i agree with the with the lengths we ended up going to for a long time but if you were around there if you were around new york you know this thing was a fucking mess at the beginning when the city first shut down yeah i had to go into the office right when it shut down what date oh i don't remember the second week in march maybe third week was it that friday it was yeah i worked saturday yeah yeah that's what i remember so i remember this so the rumor was going around that the city was going to shut down and then i started getting serious and i remember it but it must have been

the second week of the shutdown not the first one because i said to my boss i'm not comfortable like i'm i'm super scared i'm nervous i don't know like i don't want to go into the office bro we thought it was killing like 20 of the population like at the beginning we we forget that but like like we did. Right. And I, just like you, me, and everybody else had no idea what was going on. And I said, okay, I want to work, but I'm just, I'm scared. Yeah.

And I don't want to go. And he said, all right, fine. And the next week I mustered up the confidence to go. And I drove in. And it took me 45 minutes from suffolk county to manhattan downtown manhattan in 45 minutes which is unheard of yeah no traffic nothing and i remember when i parked my car it was police officers homeless people and a couple people walking their dog in near the west village on a saturday evening six o'clock you know how it is it is jam-packed on saturday

could you hear a thing it was pin drop dude it was so eerie and i remember i had to i walked in and i was given a second id and it was a um like um uh what's it called a um central workers card oh yeah yeah yeah because if cop pulled me over and said, what are you doing out right now? I'm a Central. Media, if you looked at the Central Workers list, it was like all health personnel, and the media was there. Yeah, it was.

Because if you're not, sports is a little different, but people on CNN or Fox or ABC. Yeah, they rolled everyone into it. Yeah, they rolled all those people into it. And I remember I walked in you know our studio our floor where all the studios are in the and like the bullpens where all of us worked in there it was always packed i remember there was i think three people two or three and i just sat there for six hours because no sports i sat there didn't do anything and i was just like this is is the weirdest i've ever done and i go back out my shift's over at midnight

and it's usually popping and it's just this dark eerie lonely just empty place and i said like is the look at a end yeah dude and and some people again might not get it based on where they live and everyone gets it to an an extent because we've seen what happens. But it was a different level. It was fucking – it was so – it's something I'll never forget. It was so weird. I went up there. I'm headed – and now it's starting to loosen up.

I'm hearing like – because people are getting vaccinated and everything. I still have one round left to go. But a lot of people are fully vaccinated at this point and especially yeah you're done now and especially up in in new york because people are just like let's we're done let's fucking get this thing let's get on with life and i'm seeing from the outside that like a lot of restaurants are popping they're supposedly like full all go open in a couple weeks which knock on wood let's hope that continues and it's great but like there was a time there i my first time i i went back was end of january i had probably half my guests have been from new york the other half have been from

philly probably 45 and 45 and then 10 have been from miami interesting little diaspora there but i went back up with one of my guys from new york when i had him in at the end of january and i was so mentally prepared for what i was gonna see because i you know i i keep this right here on on the goddamn headphone amplifier i love new york new york is the center of the world it's my favorite place right right? And from afar, you see this happening because eventually I was from afar. I was back down here in South Jersey and you just see it keep on dipping lower and lower and lower. And you know, like they're getting crushed and all that shit. And it's like, oh my God, like the center of the world is just

stopping. And I was like, okay, it's going to be really bad. Just, you know, don't have expectations and i gotta tell you man i got there and it was worse and it wasn't worse because of what i saw of the city i will actually say that physically the city looked better than i thought you know there were some boards there were some rats in places where they usually aren't actually rats you know there's there was some there was some graffiti and stuff like that but buildings seemed pretty good it was the people that scared the shit out of me because everyone was terrified and you know this is eight nine months in and they're dead they're wearing fucking three masks and a face shield they're looking down they won't look at you it's like a nice day outside and people are terrified and i'm like yo i don't know when that bell is gonna unring and so what it feels like to me now and this is where i have more hope is that from everything i've been seeing and all my guys who

are up there it's like people are actually i guess maybe the confidence comes after you get vaccinated and stuff people are actually like oh no we're okay like and and they're actually behaviorally returning to more like eye contact and being in bigger groups of people yeah and like being okay and is that you know part of this might be wishful thinking on my end because that's what i want to see but is that what you're experiencing because you're in there all the time now with wfan um yeah it's so nice to see the city just packed yeah it's not fairly it it feels nice to see people walking around yeah you know they're masked up everyone feels comfortable ish you know and this the vaccine is definitely a a like calming effect on some people, including myself.

It's just, it's a safety guard. Yeah. Now, we don't know if it's going to be 100% working all day, every day. There is no such thing as a 100% vaccine. This is the most impressive vaccine that was ever made, though. It's going to have to be good enough, man. Hey, look, I've been very good since the beginning of this i've done the right thing it's like how much i can't i can't can't do it much you can't do

anymore i can't you've done everything i've done i've done it i've worn the mask i've not gone out i've done gone out i've done takeout i've helped small businesses i've done takeout. I've helped small businesses. I've done the right thing. Yep. And now I've got the vaccine. The thing is, I think people still, and I have a hard time, I still do it. Not still do it. I've done it where I was like, you know, I had the vaccines. Like, oh, I can just relax now.

Well, you can't just. You have to be still smart. But with me, the vaccine, I feel so much better because I'm like, all right, so now I can kind of go back to normal-ish. Yeah, so – and you got it like at the – you were done what, the end of April? Mm-hmm. So you weren't like really early, but if you got it at the very beginning, like December, January, maybe evenbruary i would agree with you on that now we are at a point where because my whole thing was like first of all i'm in here all the time like my guests decide to come or they don't right and i want all the old people to get it first and

the people who really fucking are in danger so i waited and now i'm halfway through or whatever but part of the thing that i was like okay we're ready to roll is like you can get it everywhere it is available like cvs dude walgreens everywhere that kind of freaks me out i feel like it needs to be at like a maybe then that's a separate company maybe we'll get to that too but i'm saying like my point is if you don't want to get it, because like, you know, whatever your personal reasons are, okay, no problem. Like, that's your choice. Like, that's not what I'm going to do. Fine.

I'm not going to sit here and get in a fucking dick measuring contest with you over a vaccine. But the point is, there comes a point where it's like, there's been enough time. If you didn't get it, no problem. Like, that's the risk.

I'm not fucking changing my life for you. I'm going out there. Like, we're chilling. I'm vaccinated. You're vaccinated. Let's fucking go. And that bandaid has to rip off and people have to have to be comfortable with that. And you know what? Like, cause that's the other thing, the people who don't want to get vaccinated, chances are 99% of them don't think it's a big deal anyway so why why fucking cave to to that and again respect and i want to say that and i know some people will be like yo fuck you for saying that it's every it's everyone's choice what you put in your body fine and i'm cool with that and i don't think the government should be fucking telling everyone exactly what they have to do that's

bullshit but because this one's also different it's not like tetanus and all those that have been tested for years. I understand that some people are a little nervous about that, even though that's not really how the science works. Separate point. I get it. But the rest of us are not going to keep changing our lives to be like, yeah, we're just going to let this pandemic last another three years because you don't want to fucking do it. I'm not okay with that. Yeah.

There has to be a – I think there has to be a point in time where, what do you need, like 60%, 70% of the population to get? We're not that far off. I got to check the numbers, but we're not like that far off. I don't know the numbers. I'll state that for a fact. Yeah, don't take our numbers because we don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying it's when the government gives you an option to do something, you have the opportunity to either do it or don't.

I would say it's the majority of the time the government is doing it in their best interest for the people, right? For most of the time. I wouldn't say all the time. For most of the time. I'm not going to touch that. Okay. So what I'm saying is personally for me, the time so i'm not going to touch that okay so what i'm saying is personally for me the vaccine's there give it to me i want to try to go back to normal as much

as i can slowly from whatever the guidelines suggest cdc yesterday just fucking just announced that you don't have to wear what is it you don't have to wear a mask if you're fully vaccinated oh the press conference he did like a week ago or whatever. The CDC put out something yesterday. I remember it. Yeah, yeah. They did say that whenever it was. So there's a progression coming, and it's lovely to see that things are moving up and up.

And look, it's going to help everything. It's going to help restaurants. It's going to help small businesses. It's going to help our brains. We're going to help restaurants it's going to help small businesses it's going to help our brains it's good we're going to try and look we can go back to sporting events yeah yeah which is time to go baby which is which is a part but it's i hate when people say like you know like why are you so focused on sports it's sports it's not you know it's politics critical sports is an outlet for millions of people around the world to escape from what their reality is.

Yep. Some people have a 9 to 5, 5 days a week, and they fucking hate their job. But they know on Sundays they can go watch the Giants with their boys and just kind of sink into the couch and have a beer couple wings and forget everything and then they know after the game's over reality starts back up but they know 17 now 17 times in the football season that's another conversation they're going to have something to look forward to and i think with how the people are getting vaccinated and you have big celebrities and athletes promoting to get vaccinated, things are coming and things are going to get better.

And I'm so happy to see it because last year was tough. Last year was tough. And I think people need to be positive enough to see that things are in the right direction. First of all, your point about sports is so spot on because that vibe, tailgates, having fun, not worrying about shit, just letting life happen. Yeah. Sports is like at the top of the list, man. It's so important. People have traditions. Yes.

I've seasoned tickets for 35 years, and every Sunday I go with my family and neighbors, and we all get our RV RVs together and we start grilling at 8 o'clock in the morning. That's what people look forward to. 100%. The other point you're raising, though, a piece of a bigger point, and this is where I just think it's like there's some just weird shit going on and I'd fuck if I know what it is,

so I'm not going to say because I don't. But I mentioned a few seconds ago where i made an aside about how people don't understand the science behind vaccines but i also get why they don't and why they're why they're so skeptical about shit and it does go in a little bit to your point about if the government's offering something because governments generally are power hungry regardless of the fact that we tend to historically even if you want to call it all pieces of we have had the best piece of relative to the rest of the world on top of the pile for a long time and i will i will fight that point because

it is true like go to china people see how you like that government anyway that aside the psychology of compelling or encouraging people to do something what as kids if you're if your dad said to you like every dad did when you're 15 or your mom whatever hey don't drink you want to go fucking drink because you say why because i fucking told you and you're going to get in trouble you want to do the opposite because you say why because i fucking told you and you're going to get in trouble you want to do the opposite and the thing about the vaccine that has pissed me off so much is the marketing around it because the marketing is fucking the most patronizing like even some i understand when people are like it's authoritarian in that and like there's an element of that but it's it the thing is it has distracted from what the vaccine is and what the fucking point is and the fact that we're not talking about a drug like here's the

other thing and i'm not going to go too deep because i'm not a medical expert i'm going off of some things that like john schneier was in, you know, works in the industry and knows a lot back in January. I'm going off things that smarter people than me have said. But the science between, like, a vaccine and a drug, very different. Very different. A vaccine takes elements of an actual disease that it's supposed to fight and injects it in a controlled manner into your body so that your body does the fucking work and teaches itself how to build antibodies. That is an overgeneralization, but that's how it works. And we've gotten to the point where because people are seeing marketing that is, you know, they get the fucking push button notifications from Instagram.

Check out where you can get the vaccine. Everyone dancing in mass and shit they see you know by the way there's like i i have some friends in the black community who who are not doing it and i don't argue with them because they feel like the the marketing of the vaccine is fucked and they're like this is racist as shit they got people doing tiktok dances to like rap songs outside of hospitals and stuff and i'm like if you wanted people to not take a vaccine or question a vaccine do everything you're fucking doing right now they've done it totally wrong and i think there's an outlier in new york or in like north jersey in hot spots because we remember we

saw what it did we saw how bad it can get so we're kind of like i'm pretty good at ignoring it i notice it i'm like wow that's really stupid but like i know what i'm getting here and i'm gonna go get the fucking vaccine right you know like all right let's get this over with like oh this is great we got it let's go but there are people around this country who weren't in hotbeds right who don't have that experience who are like yo this is fucking sketchy as hell and i it it stresses me out to think about it because i see us now it's not even political at this point it's like weird it's a diaspora i see us now stretching on this fucking line of of vaccines we already have this stretch of like democrats and republicans fucking killing each other

and now we're just and and all the racial issues everything now we're just creating another divide around something and it's not going to go away. Because there's going to be people who don't fucking take this. And then they're going, what the fuck happens then? Well, I think that was a given, though. I think that was an absolute given. Yeah, but how many? How many? How many aren't going to take this? I don't have a percentage for you, but it's not five.

It's higher. Yeah, I mean, that's something the government knew coming in, though, is that people, you know, they don't agree on everything. So let me know when our entire population agrees on one thing. No, they won't. It'll never happen. You're right.

Right about that. So there's that. Yeah, it's just like I'm exasperated with it. As you can tell, I'm ready for this to be over. So, you know, it is promising to hear that new york of all places is starting to starting to feel a little better yeah it's gorgeous it's awesome to see i know i'm going up there in a couple weeks too so we've got a link when you're up there absolutely yeah i'm i'm gonna be in the city on sunday going to outdoor brunch i can't wait just

it's just nice to kind of get do the normal things you're supposed to do in your 20s yes and you know what? I'm never taking it for granted again. All the times where I canceled on, ah, I'm going to stay in. Fuck that. I'm going out. And there's some times where you and me got to work. There is.

But still, like, you know, one out of three times where we would have, nah, we're going to go. We're going to go make sure we see people, you know? Oh, yeah. It's a nice excuse for a good balance you know you're still responsible for yourself and your work and getting it done i think this pandemic has like taught all of us like who we really are i think yes i think we you're you really reckon i mean some people took advantage of a horrible opportunity. They took advantage on it where it's,

they put a podcast together or they did something that, a hobby that they had and now they turn it into a career or something. You know what I'm trying to say. But what I learned from the pandemic is that I thought I was a hard worker before and I've turned into a fucking madman of a hard worker. If it's putting on content, if it's applying for jobs five, six days a week,

working my ass off, just talking to people, being on Clubhouse, or whatever it is, I've learned that I am an extremely hard worker, and I'm proud of that. Good. I am an extremely hard worker and I'm proud of that because it's it's all about when the your cards are down how hard you get a you know fix it how are you to fix the problem what lengths are you going to go to fix a situation that you're in you know it's there's millions of Americans out there that have had an issue this year. And they learned that like,

if you, if I can't fix it, like what the fuck am I going to do? Am I going to just sit where I am and just sulk? No, you can suck while you're fucking trying to fix it and be upset. But that's the one thing I learned is that you need to, if you want to fix a situation,

fucking go and do it. Pull yourself up with it. Pull yourself up and just do it. It's going to take a little while, but if you can get a nice head start on it, then you're in the right direction. Dude, I think that's a perfect place to leave off. I think you said that beautifully. I have nothing to add to that. Thanks, man.

Listen, man, it's great to see you in person. We've been talking about doing this for a while so i'm glad i'm glad you came down taylor also like on a friday drove like three and a half hours down here so i really really appreciate that i'm proud of all the work you're doing thank you and like likewise thank you and it's really cool when you meet someone at like a random event and you end up being tight with them and then keeping in touch and everything and that was a fun weekend we had an interesting diverging past so that weekend after yes different shit that happened but yes we did that was a damn dude like that was a couple years ago and look at where we are now it is a obviously it's a brave new world but

all the shit that happened but like the progression of where things are for you and for me just two different crazy how just things just just change in an instant like that but that's why your point's great you gotta just adjust and fucking if you have a problem fix it and there there has to be a level to which you have that self-motivation to do it i love how you put that whole thing thanks man appreciate that thank you for doing it of course we'll do it again down the line can't wait keep building you're doing your thing and we'll see you soon. Let's go.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Everybody else, give it a thought. Get back. Peace.