Julian Dorey Podcast - #56 - Dylan "DYL" Rhodes: "JORDAN BELFORT" SONG BACKSTORY; THE CIA & THE WORD "CONSPIRACY"; ALIENS, PYRAMIDS, & SIMULATION THEORY; THE "DRUG NARRATIVE" IN AMERICA

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

Dylan “Dyl” Rhodes is a Recording Artist and Entrepreneur. He came to prominence in 2015 via his Platinum-hit single with Wes Walker, “Jordan Belfort”—which was the number one college song of the year and peaked at #25 on the Billboard Hot 100. Dyl has since released several popular independent singles, debuting his album “Crypto Rich” in 2019. Furthermore, he Founded Advantage Blockchain in 2017—a consulting firm that works with companies to integrate blockchain technology and advise on cryptocurrency investments.  Dyl’s album Crypto Rich (Deluxe) is now available to stream on all music platforms. Dyl’s Spotify Page: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1dfpwerOGBId6qD7LVwpoB ***TIMESTAMPS*** 5:44 - The background of “Jordan Belfort” (the song); The Deal Dyl & Wes Walker signed with Atlantic Records 20:44 - Julian tells the story of when he first heard the song in college; Dyl talks about almost leaving music behind; “Crypto Rich” & Dyl’s background in crypto since 2016 28:10 - Dyl talks about Jordan Belfort and connecting with him after making the song 34:41 - Dyl talks about living up to the bar early success sets; Business & Creativity; How the music industry works 51:06 - Dyl tells a story about working with an old producer through Atlantic; The balance between perfection and progress 1:10:49 - Dyl expands upon his background in crypto, including his early exposure to NFT’s back in the day––and getting involved in Bitcoin during the Silk Road days 1:23:36 - Defunding the police debate; The unreliable media today 1:48:57 - The word “conspiracy” and its CIA origins; Aliens & The Pyramids; Dyl hypothesizes how an Intergalactic Federation would work 2:03:42 - Simulation Theory; The Fourth Turning; The focus on race in society; the white rapper stereotype; Individuality vs. groupthink; Intent vs. Assumptions; Julian talks about the two factions that formed from one of his recent TikTok videos; Dyl & Julian discuss Trump’s Presidency 2:33:11 - Dyl talks about his experience with drugs in the past; The “Business” that is rehab centers; The Drug Addiction narrative across society 2:57:58 - The perspective of art; Julian analyzes Picasso and Molly; The One-Hit Wonder Pressure; Dyl talks about his close friendship with Wes Walker ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q  ~ Get $100 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover: https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're talking to someone, communicating with someone, you have to think about their intent. Just like you said, what was their intent as an individual? Not like, what is this pre-programmed groupthink way of thinking that I've been taught to react emotionally? And instead, just take it to the level like, yo, this is just a human who's trying to connect to me, and maybe they're actually not that bad of a person. I mean, it comes down to this. Are you an optimist where you assume that every person is probably good and they don't really mean you any harm? Or are you a pessimist where you're assuming that pretty much everyone you interact with is bad and out to get you?

That is going to shape the way you react to things and the way your whole world is built. What's cooking, everybody? Many years ago in the founding city of America, Philadelphia, a great man sat down and wrote some words that have rung out through history and will continue to do so for years to come. If you don't mind, I'd like to read a few of them right now. I've been getting dirty money, Jordan Belfort. Stacking penny stocks while I'm flipping these birds. Sipping on Ciroc, trip them up with my words. I just popped a molly and i think that this will be my third

ladies and gentlemen i am joined in the bunker today by none other than dill who along with west walker created the smash hit viral sensation of a song jordan belfort and who in addition to being a rapper is also a longtime entrepreneur and a guy who is genuinely very curious about the world around him and that is definitely going to come across in this conversation today so our podcast pretty much broke up into two different sections very naturally but the first hour we were talking all about the music industry the background of the song itself the come up of dill and wes and how that all happened and how it didn't really jive with the creative process once they were quote-unquote in the business and then the last two hours we went down the rabbit holes we talked about conspiracies we talked about the government media manipulation

intent versus assumptions aliens a lot in there a lot to unpack a lot that i hope you guys are going to enjoy and not for nothing it was pretty cool for me to get tuned up on a podcast with the guy who wrote the song jordan belford that we were bumping in college. So thanks to Dill for doing it. And I hope you guys enjoy the episode. Now, if you have not used the link in my description, along with the code TRENDIFIRE at checkout to buy your 8 Sleep Pod Pro mattress or 8 Sleep Pod Pro cover, what are you doing? What are you doing? I know you. I know I'm looking at you right now. I'm not really looking at you, but pretend I'm looking at you.

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And if you're on YouTube right now, hit that subscribe button, hit that bell button, and leave a like and comment on the video, if you would, please. To everyone who has been passing around their favorite episode of the podcast or the most recent episode each week, to a friend who listens to podcasts who hasn't heard trend of fire with julian dory and let's see if we can grow this audience base even a little more that said

you know what it is i'm julian dory and this is trend of fire let's go this is one of the great questions in our culture. Where is the news? You're giving opinions and calling them facts. You feel me? Everyone understands this, but few seem to do it. If you don't like the status quo, start asking questions. You guys what, like freshmen in college? Yeah, man. Well, let's let's get into it yeah let's just go right there right into it man getting dirty money here we i think we gotta

take a little uh we gotta do a little cheers before we get into it but uh yeah man i mean it's a great story and i've told it so many times but it never gets old you know cheers bro cheers baby yeah all right so let's start it from the beginning if we're gonna get right into that yeah you guys i think you guys recorded the song a while before it blew up yeah right that's right so you did it like maybe 2013 so the movie came out uh i believe it was december 25th 2012 i think or might have been 2013 but anyway it came out on december 25th then um my birthday is on january 5th like 10 days later and i had seen the movie like sometime between then and my birthday because i remember me and wes linked up and we were just working on

random stuff um wes had always made beats i was one of his best friends you know i would like to rap and mess around um i've always been into like vocals and i used to want to be in green day like obviously you know i was like like 10 years old walking down the street singing boulevard of broken dreams i thought i was cool as fuck wait you have that voice too i walk a lonely road the only one that i have ever known yeah but uh nah anyway so um me and west were just chilling i had seen the wolf of wall street movie and i went over and west put on this one beat and i was like oh bop you know it's got that bop to it and so um yeah i mean i was honestly thinking of kind of like one of those rick ross songs where it's like i think i'm big meat like just calling out someone who has a lot of money and like it just came to me like oh

shit this wolf of wall street movie was so good it was brand new right it had just come out like i saw it like first week it came out um i've always been interested in like finance investing and stuff so when i saw that movie i was always and it's like a scorsese movie and everything with leonardo dicaprio like this killer lineup so obviously i wanted to go see the movie. And it's like a Scorsese movie and everything with Leonardo DiCaprio, like this killer lineup. So obviously, I wanted to go see the movie. I saw it, fell in love with the movie. It was so awesome. And so then I was hanging with Wes and I was like, yo, let's rap about this guy, Jordan Belford. And that's really how the song came to be. So it was actually like, one night, we were just recording it and recorded it. And then the next morning,

I was just so excited to work on this song. I drove right over to Wes's house, like first thing in the morning and woke him up. And I was just like, yo, let's keep recording this. And so that day I still remember like sitting down in his living room. Like we were both like on our iPhones because it was like verse writing time. Like probably went outside and smoked something and came back in. I was going to say, was it a bong? Was it a blunt? Like what was the weapon of choice yeah we were at west's

parents house back then so we had to like definitely do like go outside and like it was definitely but i'm sure we would have been smoking like a blunt or something like that then um i don't know like it was on that young bullshit we were smoking like grab bongs you know like whatever um the good old days yeah yeah so anyway we made the song recorded it like i said it was really a night in the next day and then uh that was that like we recorded this song i remember west still hadn't seen the movie yet so i i and it's so funny actually this is he recorded the song before he'd seen the movie yeah he recorded the song before he'd seen the movie and i came to them him with this idea and i remember like one of the things i said was like

yo let's talk about quaaludes and west was like i don't know what the hell what the hell are you talking about like we're not talking about quaaludes like come on this this is about you know us our version of jordan felford not like about the movie yeah but it's so funny though because did you see that tiktok where it was like uh it's this tiktok posted by wolf of wall street where he's like it's like song lyrics that should have been something else and it's like i just popped amali and i think it'd be my third then he pops up he's like quay lewd i think it would have been i think it would have been my fourth actually yeah yeah right yeah he's he's funny man though but yeah i mean it's such a

crazy story from like being that kid who just wrote a song in his bedroom because i was thinking of like calling out people like i was rick ross and the next thing you know i'm on jordan belfort's podcast in la like four or five years later but it was a long road right like it took four or five years until i ended up like meeting jordan belfort and everything came full circle so after we had originally recorded the song we dropped it on soundcloud and like back in 2013 yeah this is in 2013 okay so we recorded it at his house blue yeti microphone like just uh on on his laptop wait a second wait a second this is the first recording ever of it so okay so you guys did it again yeah but no that version is what blew up on soundcloud like so that version started

doing well on soundcloud and blue yeti yeah dude it was just like it was just raw but at that time like it didn't have the sound it is now so what ended up happening is we would show people that song and people like agreed that had pretty good bounce but neither of us thought anything that serious about our music like west did some djing uh he was working at a studio doing some stuff like we love music but we didn't understand like how quickly things would change so Jordan Belvert was just one of the dope songs we had and when Wes was working at a studio that summer we went and recorded it with all the nice studio equipment so I was gonna say cuz it's yeah it sounds pristine on there like

not I mean obviously we all got to come up where we come up but like a like, a Blue Yeti, if people are familiar with, like, audio equipment, that's not on the level of something that's going to be a number one song. Nah, I mean, that's just a USB mic, right? Like, that's less. But, anyway, the key is that, like, we put that idea out and people heard it. And then that's what ultimately led us to recording the better version. So, my honest advice is, like, just record with what you have and start somewhere. I have the RapChat app on my phone. I'm really big on there.

I have like 300,000 followers on RapChat. And RapChat's dope because you can record and share raps directly on your phone. I've never heard of that. Yeah, it's a cool app. I mean, it's on the smaller side. I mean, you get apps like TikTok now that are just so viral. It's crazy. But the RapChat app is really dope.

One of my favorite apps. I've been in that community for a long time. But really what it allows you to do is just like experiment with things, record on your phone, and share that. So, you know, I know a lot of people watching this podcast are kind of just trying to figure out, like, how can I make it as an independent artist? Like, where do i start i think the hardest part is getting from like i'm just a guy a regular person guy or girl who wants to make music to like how do i actually start making music and it's like start with what you have record some stuff on your phone to start to get a feel for your voice to get a feel for performing get a feel for you know singing or rapping into a mic and then everything just goes

from there i mean it has been a long road over the past you know five singing or rapping into a mic. And then everything just goes from there. I mean, it has been a long road over the past, you know, five, six years, just learning the ins and outs of the music industry, like, because it started as just recording some stuff with my boys to then, um, you know, so after, after we recorded the song in full quality after that summer, it was about another year and a half before anything happened so just to kind of go back on that it took about a year to get to a million plays and before a million plays you're kind of wondering like okay this is cool like it's getting kind of big but how big is it going to go and so then after that where was it getting the plays on soundcloud all on soundcloud yeah there was like this was like before spotify

was really big apple music wasn't really even around and um everything was on spotify or i'm sorry on soundcloud so at this time like lil uzi vert was taking over soundcloud like anyone yeah yeah yeah trap queen was a big one at that time um so yeah like it was getting a lot of streams on soundcloud hit a million streams like we knew we had something going um then we started talking to labels and stuff and this was like about a year and a half after the song came out uh so it took a long time to really get some steam going behind it but once it passed like a million plays um and then we had like distributed it to itunes and spotify and we were starting to make some

money off those sites we're actually making in hindsight a really good amount of money like we were making a lot of money but we were new to the music industry and what we decided to do was take a deal so we sold the song uh jordan belfort to atlantic records um and so that was probably about two years after we had made the song. And so I have mixed feelings about that decision and how everything played out. But ultimately, we had a great deal with them. We then went on tour, did 40 to 50 shows around the country. We did a follow-up single called Haters with them. We worked on all different types of stuff got to work in some dope

studios i learned a lot about the music industry that was my biggest takeaway really just learning as much as possible learning about touring performing all that stuff and it's really led me down the road today which is like i was in college at tulane university in new orleans when all this happened i was a freshman you were in new orleans yeah i was in when all this happened. I was a freshman. You were in New Orleans. Yeah, I was in New Orleans, man. It's a hell of a combo. Yeah, I mean, yo, it was crazy down there, man. It was awesome. Everyone knew I made the song.

I would perform at a college bar, the boot all the time, the palms. The boot. That sounds like a college bar. Yeah, obviously. It just sounds like it. So, man, it was dope. But, yeah, that experience really opened my eyes to like all right maybe i can do something creative because like i always had wanted to do

something creative but i was always that kid that was realistic like i wasn't telling anyone i wanted to be a football player because i'll just be like all right i'm probably not gonna be a football player like you know maybe do business or something like that and then like for a while i thought i probably want to go like wall street or something like that even after even after jordan belfort blew up i went on tour um all that stuff i released some independent music but it wasn't really moving as quickly as i wanted and so at that time i decided to go back to school at tulane and finish my degree because i was like halfway done it already oh so you had left yeah yeah so I took time off I took a year off from school so I took a year off from school to tour did like 40 to 50 shows yeah um you know no penalty like I had a scholarship there got to

keep my scholarship everything like that um toured did 40 to 50 shows came back and then I actually had this period of time where I decided, like, that was it for me. And I was probably going to be done making music. So I was, like, just in school, you know, finishing my finance degree, doing crypto at this time. This is when I started getting into crypto. We'll get to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, so after Jordan Belfort blew up is when I started to get into crypto big time. So you were early. Oh, yeah. This is, like, 2016. Yeah. I was early on crypto. It's actually crazy how I got into crypto big time so you were early oh yeah this is like 2016 yeah i was early on crypto it's actually crazy how i got into crypto my buddy cuss pack he was literally searching on google like how to get rich and he found out yeah it's so funny and he found ethereum under ten dollars and he called me one day because i was the only you know we're like 19 years old so i was the only one of our friends that had any money and he called me and he's like yo man i think if you just get a thousand dollars into this ethereum we won't have

to work again and he was right man he was 100 right you bought ethereum at 10 bucks yeah but i bought a good amount i mean i wish i would have bought more right in hindsight yeah no i got i got in at seven dollars was my first purchase of ethereum um and so i've been involved in it since then um with my buddy cuspac who's one of my business partners i put him on my album and stuff he's he's great at rapping too but you know i try to make my music is all about my life right so like um i think you know cuspac he's essential to the whole crypto rich journey so that's why i put him on the album, too. Can we actually go back? Because I want to make sure we get some of this.

Because you were dropping a whole bunch of diamonds in there about the whole journey at the beginning with just the one song. Just highlighting. This was one song that did this. But you were saying, I think, and we're definitely going to talk about Crypto today. Oh, yeah, yeah. No worries, man. You slow me down and ask some questions. Bookmark that. were saying i think in in and i we're definitely gonna talk about crypto today oh yeah yeah no no worries man you slow me down and ask some questions bookmark that there's just there's a lot coming out but you were saying that first year so maybe like 2014 something like that yeah it worked its way up to a million streams on soundcloud yeah it slowly grew organically on soundcloud and i think

yeah how'd you do that that's the question so well it just happened naturally and it also happened with the growth of the movie i think because it really was like along with the movie like what the movie obviously was big when it came out but it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger over the years like it's become a cult classic type of film and that takes some time to develop like a movie can come out and it's good but then it's going to take another year or two before people are like okay this is like critically acclaimed good and it takes another year or two for people to be like okay this is like actually like a classic all-time film which i do think jordan belfort is or wolf of wall street it is it is like a classic all-time film and it's funny that i say this right because even right now

like me and you know this as someone who's like, it's our generation. But there's plenty of people who just don't know shit about that movie. Even though we know that give it another five, ten years, it's going to be a consistent cult classic film. That's just people are going to remember, I think. That one, it's interesting because I actually agree. And I would normally not agree because it was big. I don't remember the numbers at the box office, but it was big. However, culturally, you're right.

I remember because you were saying it came out Christmas 2012 or 2013. It was one of the two. It was one of those, yeah. But I remember a couple years later, a few years later, you started seeing the artwork everywhere. Oh, yeah. And then Jordan himself actually publicly branded himself right so now he's got the podcast and everything but he started focusing on actually

putting his face out there and then people were reminded them of the movie and then like all these things and leo won the oscar like all these things happen and and then margot robbie obviously blew the fuck up yeah you know followed that up as a great actress as well yeah and so it became you're right it it kind of like whatever the box office numbers were put that aside it 10x in culture oh yeah no doubt 100 i mean also like with jordan he continues to get bigger too if you would have seen the content he was putting out back then or even even just like a couple years ago i mean i i have to give a testament to the guy like jordan Jordan Belfort himself, his content has improved so much. And then even this year, he's been going super viral on TikTok, which has really, along with the song. Like, the Jordan Belfort song has also been going increasingly viral on TikTok just this year.

And so we've seen that song even have like a resurgence this year, which is really exciting. So, I mean, it's a good song man people keep playing it people keep finding it like if you look at every tiktok that blows up with that song there's always someone who's like i can't believe i just heard this for the first time today it's it's a beautiful thing because it's and that's the way the song blew up as you just pointed out it was such a natural passing because it was it was mixing culture with music perfectly but i really like sometimes i think about how weird happens in life where stuff kind of lines up yeah you believe in that oh i think that's the only way it can happen dude it's it's weird to me because i didn't know so two steps this i didn't know ashton which is

how i know you now yeah I did not know him. But someone had passed me his whole discography a year and a half ago. And I listened to every song he ever made. And I'm like, this guy's amazing. So then pandemic happens, right? Forget about it. Somebody hits me up. And they're like, yo, would you want to talk to this Ashton Laro guy? I'm like, are you fucking kidding?

Yes, bring him in. And then he and I hit it off. We had a great podcast. He stayed here for a while after. And we started going back and forth. when he was here he mentioned you and i didn't i didn't reach out to you yet or anything but he mentioned you and in my head i was like come on because your song when it blew up in 2015 like it was like late spring 2015 is when it really went from like there to fucking to the moon.

And then throughout the rest of the year, we rented a house after the school year down in Myrtle Beach, me and my best friends. Yeah. And then there were a few girls we had renting the house with us. And there was one girl in that house who had found your song like, I don't know, two days before we went down there. Nice. And so it was a banger of a song. We were all like, yo, this song is fucking great but i shit you not like how many how many uh streams do you have on on spotify on spotify i think it's at like 130 140 million okay that's obviously a very large

number yeah but i guarantee you in this week of 2015 that girl had 10 000 of them yeah man i mean it's one of those songs people like loop i hear that all the time it got to a point where she would she would take over the speakers and she had it timed to like when the final bass line would happen so she could go right back like a loop and like you wouldn't but we noticed like you wouldn't notice it played so finally on the fifth day my one friend mike spear has been on this podcast yeah he was like lindsay either you go or the song goes but if you go the song's going with you so i i don't know what you want to do yeah that's so funny so we were like ptsd from it because we heard it so many times and then i literally had not heard the song and i think i heard it on tick tock it's funny you mentioned that yeah i heard on tick tock like january or february and i'm like oh this is such a banger like it

wasn't ruined it's great yeah and then they even put it on the big booty mix like the latest one and yeah i was like holy now i gotta reach out to him i gotta do this yeah i saw that it was on the big booty mix i don't really know too much about the big booty mix but i saw that uh wes had posted it and it was on there that's pretty sick you don't know about the big booty mix I don't really know too much about the big booty mix but I saw that uh Wes had posted it and it was on there that's pretty sick you don't know about the big booty mix I don't know I know about some big booty well yeah I mean that's obviously more important but the mix behind the big booty it's like uh it's pretty good dude yeah like if you like music which obviously goes without saying with you you'll like that it's got everything that's dope man yeah I mean it continues to be a party hit and that's what's amazing about it and you know it's given me a great platform for for everything i do

and like i said like it changed my perspective because i was just very like realistic thinking i was gonna go into business or something and then it was a long process to like like i said like i went on tour i performed i did all that and then i had like this moment where i like came back to school and i kind of was thinking all right like i'm probably gonna put this behind me and like go into business or something and then it just happened one day like one of my buddies came on to me he was just like yo man like are you gonna make another song and i was like giving my normal answer at that time was like i don't think so man like i i did good like i had a good run but like i'm just gonna focus on some other shit and then at one point he's

just like someone just looked at me he's like you have to make another song man like you gotta make another what year is this this is probably like 2016 2017 he's like you gotta make another song man and i knew what he meant too like he just like meant like yo like you have this platform like you like have been given this blessing of like having a hit song at all and like i know you like to make music like you gotta make another song bro and like i got what he was saying and that's when something switched in my head where i was like yo i don't even give a fuck about this business shit. Life is about doing what I enjoy and pursuing what's going to really make me happy.

And so that's when I realized that I wanted to go all in on music. And so it was kind of a process from then. I started work. At this time, like I said, it was like 2016 or 2017, which was when I had started getting into crypto um and so i was pretty my timing with crypto in the beginning was great like i got in and then it started moving up pretty quickly from there and you know i put in more as it kept going and stayed in yeah i stayed in i stayed in that was the huge bull run back then and i've stayed in since that's what i'm saying like yeah i've

stayed in since and so but i also'm saying. Like after it ended. Yeah, I've stayed in since. But I also started a company called Advantage Blockchain doing crypto consulting in Philly. So that's been a big part of what I've done as well. What do you mean crypto consulting? So we do a variety of different things. We have a hedge fund currently where we manage money in crypto markets for other people. We've worked with private and publicly traded companies to help them figure out crypto implementations for their business we've done a lot of different things a big thing that we actually did recently was helping real estate companies put shares of their properties on the blockchain or on the internet so allowing people to buy and sell and invest in real estate online

so these are some of the things that we've been working on with blockchain. And the last three or four years, I've spent just learning as much as possible about this technology and helping people implement it. But to connect that to the music, this is why I had been working in crypto. I was excited about this. I knew it was the next big thing. It was already becoming the next big thing. And I realized that this was a thing that I was very passionate about. And so that's when I started making my Crypto Rich album. I was making songs, trying to get back into making music, like I was saying.

And that's when it came to me that I was going to be the first person to make this album about crypto, talking about being crypto rich. I'm getting crypto money. I got Bitcoin. I got Ethereum, right? People are talking about I got Bitcoin. I got Ethereum, right? Like people are talking about, I got cash. I got Benjamins.

And I've had it. And I already did that shit too. I've had it for a while. And also, obviously, you know, I already did that shit too with the Jordan Belfort song, but also that song's like about investing.

Like probably the top song about investing. Jordan Belfort's about investing? Yeah. The song's about investing. It's like stacking penny stocks, right? The movie's about investing jordan belfort's about investing yeah the song's about investing it's like stacking penny stocks right the movies about investing so i mean i think it's a fine investing on that though that's important tell me it's not the top song about investing name name another song that's that's about i don't think i know any trading investing yeah i don't think i know any i mean i could probably think of a rap song if i really thought about it but no like yeah they're about like hustling like hustling like

you could loosely say like all right some songs are kind of about investing if you consider like hustling investing but like no let's not even go there like jordan belford is the number one song in the world about uh investing in markets stocks trading wall street like whatever way you put it jordan belfort is that song and so that's why i figured like i'm gonna be the first rapper to have a crypto album what what about the subject matter of it though because like obviously jordan is doing great now and like and not for nothing but as an aside when what the hell was it called stratton oakmont when stratton oakmont blew up after he went away and everything. Yeah.

The guy, as a salesman, regardless of what he was doing, obviously like a lot wrong, but as a salesman, the guy is one of the greatest salesmen to ever walk the face of this planet. He's a talented guy. Bro. He's charismatic. I mean, sitting down with him, he's funny and interesting to talk to. He's a cool guy and you know But there there were guys who worked at Stratton Oakmont and a lot of these guys got like banned from working in securities

But I heard some stories from some guys I worked with who sat on desks with them You know in the years right after Stratton Oakmont who you know, they were selling life insurance and stuff And they're like bro you have never seen someone sell like these guys could sell like it's a real this whole straight line system is a real thing so obviously like the positive that he's putting out there now by teaching systems like that and and using it for good is great but you know people will still come back at you I'm sure about the fact that like all right we're making an investing song we're making a song called jordan belford it's a cultural phenomenon but like obviously you know the guy was pumping and dumping stocks that's what made the story and

everything and you don't want to do that because you end up in jail yeah well don't get me wrong i mean like i i think this is a topic that comes up so much like i was saying earlier like as soon as you go on twitter and tweet about the movie you get a whole rant of replies where people are like oh my god i can't believe you're idolizing this guy jordan belfort the youth are totally corrupted our culture is ruined and it's just like all right follow jesus it's like all right like chill the fuck out just because people like this movie doesn't mean they're trying to be exactly like jordan belfort in wolf of wall street i even get that about my own personality like people will just assume that i must be just like this asshole guy from the movie who's like cheating on his girlfriend and trying to fuck everything in sight and trying to do a hundred drugs until i can't think anymore and it's like maybe i've been through

those times in my life but you know i'm a changed man now. No, no. But no, seriously. I mean, in a lot of ways, it's like people really do see this image. And maybe some people take it too far on both sides. There are people who probably just act like a complete pig. And then there's other people who are just assuming that someone's going to be a complete pig for reasons that aren't totally relevant. Like, don't judge a book by its cover you don't know someone like you can have plenty of good people and in certain situations and plenty of bad people so you know i i think at the end of the day

like someone's moral character needs to exist on a level where like you know what is truly right and wrong and you're not just idolizing certain figures and copying what they do right that's all said yeah i i think that when it comes to morality i do believe that there is this deeper level of morality that people have internally like you know religious people might say like okay you need god to like determine like morals what's wrong what's right like i do believe it exists at a level where it's just like in your heart where like people you know you know what's wrong and right and so you want to like treat people well and at the end of the day the way you are the

most successful is by helping people creating value right jordan belfer went to jail we all know that he knows that we talked about this you know i talked about this with him on his podcast it's like he he openly talks about it and so he's someone who like went to jail and it's like even though it is so cool what you see in the movie it's like he really does tell his side of the story or it's like you don't want to be in that position so what i mean did you get to spend a lot of time with him off camera too um not a ton so when i yeah i'll tell that story right because that's that's a good story in and of itself too um so like i said the whole jordan belfer song blew up we did the whole thing i had put out crypto rich and this is back when this is in about uh 2019 right this is in 2019

where crypto rich was out and i was starting to um just like really be fully committed to music try to figure out what the next move was and um my family had actually recently moved out to la and so i when they were out there i actually figured out how to get in touch with jordan someone from jordan's team it was someone that had worked for him and so i got i got in touch with him and i got an email to Jordan, where I was just like, yo, Jordan, my name is Dill. I made the song with Wes Walker, and I want to come meet you because we've never met.

It's been five years. I know this song's played all the time. And so anyway, I got a pretty quick response with him, and like a day or two later, I went over to his apartment, and we sat down and we talked for a little bit. He didn't really know anything about us. I think it was just a surprise for him to hear that we are just like two normal dudes who were like fresh out of high school just making a song up basically on our basement on a

laptop and so he liked that whole grassroots side of the story like he's an entrepreneur he recognizes good entrepreneurship like so i think for him it was actually eye-opening to see that we are just like young entrepreneurs i mean i think he sort of assumed as much but then again he didn't really know how it happened so hearing the whole story we're like we recorded this song by ourselves like inspired by the movie there was no like major label telling us to do it it wasn't like one of his competitors trying to like get one under on him by owning the song none of that shit like we were just inspired by the movie so i think there was that connection and then there's always that part of it where he's like oh these fuckers made a song about me and i don't get any of it right um but it does help him though that's what he said even in the

beginning of the interview he's like he's like it contributed to my own fame in some type of way which it really did like it's helped blow him up so big. So it really is awesome. But at the same time, it's funny that we created this song, this asset about him that we own completely and he doesn't have a share of. But it's awesome because lately we've been talking to him. Like I said, he's been blowing up lately. The song is getting big on TikTok again.

And so what we're doing is we're trying to plan a remix. said he's been blowing up lately the song is getting big on tick tock again and so um what we're doing is shoot we're trying to plan a remix for jordan belford with like another big artist and do like some sick music video and stuff with jordan in it so i can't say too much more on that but it's gonna be sick you heard it you heard it here first yeah that's that's pretty sick it's it's such an interesting concept though because you know you're 18 years old you do and that's the beauty of like creating something you know and a lot of these guys who are on soundcloud too who blew up that way it started with that started with like one song that just went crazy and like oh shit we're in it now but like you're young you got dreams you're you're on a scholarship going to college like you have all these other

plans and then like suddenly you're this cultural phenomenon and you know you do the thing you take a year off in college where you're going around and tour and living a great life which is cool but at the same time it's like you're not 25 you know you haven't been out there yet you got to like figure shit out and everything and like i just kind of wonder when that happens if there's like all these other pressures that come in where it's almost like you now set a bar for yourself and you're like oh fuck am i ever gonna match that bar again like does that creep in for you at all yeah yeah that's an interesting question i feel like there were there's sort of two parts to that

question um one is all of the pressure like from so yeah when when you're it's a huge difference being like 20 or 21 versus being like 25 26 which i'm 26 now and the difference in my mindset from then to now it's crazy like when i was still in college you know mainly i had my parents who are you know i'm very lucky i have great parents who sent me to college like they're on my ass telling me to go finish college and shit like you know you're on my ass telling me to go finish college and shit like you know you're halfway through your degree you gotta go finish this degree like whatever you know music's not a real career like the whole thing the whole nine like you know um that's that's how it goes and then you've got like other peers who like they like

your music and they support you but i think that when you get to like the deeper levels of it like a lot of your peers also think like your parents to like the deeper levels of it like a lot of your peers also think like your parents that like music isn't going to be a real career and that's like getting into like the nitty-gritty but it's like when you're in this position like and you have like friends like you know it gets deep like it's not it's not always just like this like oh all my friends support me and i'm going up to the top like i wish it was like that but no it's not like that like and i had great support don't get me wrong like i had a great group of friends at college who would like support me they'd show

up to my shows and stuff but at the same time there's always like this level of like i already have a hit song so it's like some of the people that are your close friends and you think would be like doing everything to support you they just start to think like oh he's good i don't need to comment on anything i don't even need to hit him up anymore so it gets to that level where it's kind of like you do have friends who love you and support you but they're just busy with their own lives and they're not really commenting on your shit so like you get to this point where you have to really figure out what you want in life and so it's like like you said like being 20 21 i'm not financially independent yet i'm still figuring out what i do and don't want so it's a lot harder to make those decisions versus now where i'm 26 it's like okay

i've decided that i really want to do music i've had some years in the real world to like make some money figure my out where it's like all right like i can make enough money doing this to like get by live a good life and shit and if i do it right i'll make a ton of money and i'll be set for like so the way that's when i started to realize that like all that shit like what your peers think or like getting a good job or like you know having all these things that people think are so important like even like in my situation like a retirement plan like i don't have a fucking like 401k but i have different assets right i'm creating assets which then generate income forever in perpetuity like jordan belford songs gonna be making me royalties when i'm 50 because you're

gonna be streaming it when you're on your old man golf trip yeah yeah so so no but that's what's dope is like i'm making different types of assets. I'm setting up my life differently. We live in this new world where, like, ain't nobody had a digital song with 130 million streams when they were 26 10 years ago. It just wasn't a fucking thing. So, you know, I think in many ways you just have to be brave and bold and look to the future and be like, look, this is where we're going. Like, I'm willing to take the risk of like whatever might happen if I fail. But the truth of the matter is you're not going to fail.

Like if you're a good person and you are hardworking and you're not an idiot. Right. Like, yeah, that's the sad part is that like there is on some level. It's like, yo, you can't be an idiot or you're going to fail. And so that's tough because it's like, well, what do you do if you're an idiot i don't know man i i truly believe that every person in the world however many there are seven and a half billion something like that every person in the world has the ability deep within them to be the best in the world at something the thing is the variability of what that is are two very different things if i'm the best in the world at something the thing is the variability of what that is are two

very different things if I'm the best in the world at like flipping a table over or I'm the best in the world at basketball that's two very different realities you know but you talk about like being an idiot I think it's more than just like oh how smart are you it's also like how resourceful are you how how willing are you to look at new trends like things that are changing and figure out where you could possibly add value in that right and like when I listen to you speak it's interesting because you're kind of like a conundrum in some ways like I heard you say earlier on a while ago you know I was always like a creative I wanted to create you I just want to

be in there doing it so we made this song but then like I always wanted to be business I wanted to go to Wall Street I wanted to go to Wall Street I want to do this like I wanted the plan and all that and I wanted that security and then I had it and like there's all these different things going on but yet you're only 26 years old and You've lived a life where you've seen like the highest end you can get for something in music Which is a crazy game highly competitive very few ever get to touch that like very few dude it's such a mystery too like that's what's crazy yo this this is like a bomb for me personally was i got to that highest level very quick like i went from recording in wes's basement and shit

on a blue yeti on a blue yeti to like a year or two later i'm in like the top studio in la sponsored by atlantic records like talented people in there and i remember like we were recording shit and it just didn't sound like that amazing it just didn't it just didn't like i thought that i was gonna show up at atlantic records and there was gonna be some guy there who's like boom i'm i'm gonna make you into a rock star it was not like that at all. Like, you get there, and it's just like mixing in any fucking studio around Philly. It really just is. And that's when I started to have these realizations.

But it was only after, like, years of, like, keeping trying this shit to where I'm like, maybe I'm just needing to, like, link up with the right person through right person through the label to get in the right session to make some super fire. But then at the end of the day, when all came back around, the truth of the matter was everything I needed is inside me, inside the way I pick the beats, the way I sing. And I mix and master all my own stuff now. So that's something you can learn and figure out yes and the more that you own your process the more you can own your work like i own 100 of my masters now um like my new album everything like that so well

what about that deal we mentioned that there was a million things at the beginning so i'll keep picking them apart like where they kind of come where they come up you just mentioned it again so you guys the way you explained it and a lot of people that may have been like wait what the does that mean but i i understand this now how this works after talking with a lot of people in music but it's still a crazy concept to me you sold the song yeah to atlantic records which then and i'll let you fill in the rest of the blanks but like at least a part of it was you were going to make some music with them and have access to some things. But when you say you sold the song, does that mean,

because then you also mentioned you're going to be getting royalties on this 50 years from now, so you didn't sell all of it. How did the deal go down? Yeah, so they always give you a cut of the royalties. I mean, I suppose there's some deals where you wouldn't get a cut of the royalties, but not anymore. Nobody's doing that. But yeah, so we got a cut of the royalties but not anymore not nobody's doing that um but yeah so we got like a cut of the royalties what kind of are you allowed to say what kind of

cut yeah it's it's a low cut like like 20 right so those deals are bad like a d a good deal would be like 80 goes the artist 20 goes to the label like this deal was bad like what I mean like they pay you up they they ponied up like a good amount of Advance you know a decent Advance nothing crazy um and but that's all recoupable so like it's it's really not not worth that much because you have to pay it back with your streams anyway and like we were making like five to ten grand you have to pay it back with your streams anyway any advance from a label is recoupable meaning it has to be paid back entirely so they're not even investing in you they're i guess oh so they didn't give you anything up front they just they do they give you like a good

payment you know they give you like 50k 100k but it's recoupable but it's recoupable so not really so it's not really they're not giving you anything so why the did you take that deal well you also have to understand this was a time when the music industry was going through some major changes. So nobody really knew if you could make all this money being an independent artist just because your songs were blowing up online. So it was a different time in the industry where there wasn't what we have now, which is tons of artists making millions independently off their music. It just didn't exist um so but also like once you get your foot in the door in the industry like stuff starts happening like for example we got like a lawyer on our team who in hindsight that lawyer didn't know except get the deal across so i can get my money as a lawyer right

um and then like for example we had like uh was he an entertainment lawyer yeah he's an entertainment lawyer and then entertainment is going to be like the slimiest person you're going to deal with right entertainment lawyer is somebody whose job it is to help the label get the deal inked so that they can get their five percent out of the deal right so like so this guy think about it think about it anymore think about it like this He would have the entertainment lawyers only goal would have been to get us a higher advance Because he gets 5% of it. He could give a shit about our royalty share That's crazy, but do you see how crazy that's not he gets a percentage of your advance your advance is borrowed money Oh, yeah, exactly and then it's a percentage

Listen to this. Then what they want to do is give you like a marketing budget. Let's say you got $100K marketing budget, okay? Then what they do is they take that, which is also recoupable. So then the label is going to decide how to spend $100K of money that gets paid back from your song, right? And where does that money go? To all their song, right? And where does that money go? To all their buddies, right? Where does, let's say they want to use 5K

of your marketing budget for a Jordan Belfort remix. What do they do? They call up one of the other artists who's an EDM artist they just signed, and they say, hey, we got a 5K deal for you to remix this song, Jordan Belfort. They have the rights to it. Right, well, right.

Oh, fuck. Right? So then they pay out of money that we have to recoup. They pay someone who's on their label, which then they basically get a cut of that already. Do you have anything saying that? I mean, yeah, we would have a say in it. But also you have to consider they do own the song, so they could do whatever they want with it. But yeah, we had a say in it but also you have to consider they do own the song so they could do

whatever they want with it but like yeah we had a say in it like there are you know they they um so when you're talking about doing this remix now it's in coordination with them yeah yeah so everything's in coordination with them like the marketing plan and all that but at the same time they get to make most of their decisions and at this time i didn't know anything really about music compared to what i do now so they yeah i mean yo that's the record industry like when you get a deal from a label you know they're sort of investing in you i mean i guess it is kind of like uh the way startup investing works right like they're buying a share of your equity um but that's not recoupable usually like the recoup is not the recoup is like uh

you know it's like a loan it's like it's like a loan where you get equity it's like the mr wonderful deal on shark tank where it's a loan plus equity i'll give you a 250 000 loan i guess there's no interest so i'm you know no please please tell me this guy this guy is not your lawyer anymore oh no dude it was so transactional it was so transactional i mean that is malpractice no i don't even talk to those people i don't even talk to atlantic anymore which is honestly their loss like fuck them um but i don't even really talk to them anymore but i mean we've been trying to get back in touch with them like at the end of the day it's just like we want to do stuff with jordan belfer we

want to do this remix but i had a team over there who just didn't take care of me like that's the end of it like my team at atlantic did not take care of us like we were putting out it's crazy too because like my top song after jordan belford now is a song that i made back in 2016 it's called hey what's up hello it was a banger from the beginning i own 100 of it inspired that that hey what's up hello it was a banger from the beginning i own 100 of it inspired that that hey what's up hello song that was inspired by a fetty wop yeah i knew you could tell from the smile but yeah hey what's up hello yeah so no that's a banger that i made too which just like they ended up putting out this song haters anyway you know it's just like the classic

like industry bullshit you know they're trying to have their say in everything we do um you know we we but also what i realize now is like you have to be so confident and certain in yourself as an artist when you get into those leagues like things would have gone differently if i was like i am now where i would just be like hard no to certain things i would just refuse to do certain things i'll be up someone's ass and you know going to someone else if it wasn't working um but it's tough to say too because like i was so busy then so it's like when you do have a lot of shit going on and you get so busy how much can you really be up everyone's ass to do a good job anyway so you got to balance those things and the key is just having people around you who really care um and who are looking out for you i mean did you guys put a team together yeah i was

gonna say that doesn't have to be like some fucking manager who wants 20 of your mom that's not what i'm saying like that can be like your fucking friend who did you have one of those uh so we had a manage i didn't so there was this management company that approached us and i ended up not really working with them or ever paying them because they didn't do anything they just wanted 20 of our money so so they could be on the email chain with the label sounds about right like basically they wanted 20 of our money um so i never paid them or anything but they were there but they just weren't what a manager is supposed to be like a manager is supposed to be somebody who's just like purely looking out For your interest trying to figure out what's best for you

They were like an industry manager who had some connections and they would like be our manager and like they try to do some stuff But at the end of the day, you know, I'm not trying to play the blame game here and like point fingers They're like, oh they did did this. They did this. Like there's it's every artist story. Like you're putting together your first team. Some shit works. Some shit doesn't. You know, nobody works as hard for you as you want them to.

And nobody works as hard as you for than yourself. Right. Like I can do almost anything better for myself than other people can do for me. Now, that's not 100 percent true because like collaboration is important. But when it comes down to it i'm a perfectionist i care about my shit that i'm doing and other people don't like they just don't care about me the same way that i care about me and so that's what you have to realize as an artist and so it's like you know it's kind of like a meme where it's like you get that artist who's like screaming at everyone like i need this like blah blah blah like like being an asshole and it's like if i could go back like i probably would be a

little bit more like that or just be like no we're not putting out this fucking haters song because we have a bunch of other other songs and and unless you look at these three songs i'm not dropping this other fucking song i don't care about the little advance that comes with that so just little shit like that where it's like maybe if we pushed a little bit harder and made a little more music like we could have better used those connections now when you were making music was it all collab like were you and wes working with each other on all of it or were you also doing your own separate stuff as well yeah a little bit of both like we were doing our own separate stuff like i was releasing some independent singles but we were collabing on the atlantic deal for sure like everything that's what i wanted to know so i'm curious like

how this works because i'm always the music industry i mostly hear horror stories and i would never claim to know how everything works in there because like i've never worked in it i've never damn well never been an artist in it or anything but i probably know more than the average person just because like some of the people i've bumped around with over the years who actually are in the middle of it but what blows my mind is and you kind of hit on it earlier is the sucking sound that comes out of the creativity of the process like you were talking about when you went to that studio in la and you're you're expecting like oh we're gonna make some bangers in here yeah and then it's like this what the fuck is this type

process so I hear a lot of stories where labels will be like not only hey no those songs you made you like them fuck them we're not using them but they'll also be like we want you to make a song that's like this or working with this guy that's on this type of beat about this type of thing like did you get a lot of that as well oh yeah a lot like that's pretty much textbook what happened like they would they were trying to replicate like another song like jordan belfort basically um yeah good luck and you know what else they like linked us up with this guy who was a composer who wrote stuff in the 80s. And he had a cool mansion in LA. And we got to go to his cool mansion in LA.

And he had some little Asian kid in the back producing some shit in the outhouse studio and shit. That guy hates his life. It was cool. It was hilarious, dude. outhouse like studio and shit like you know that guy hates his life it was cool like you know it was like yo it was hilarious dude like you know he had like he brought us into like some like he kind of had like his pool house like a full studio which was sick and like he brought us in there and like played piano for a little bit and then like we left like it was just like that was supposed to be like a writing session that was supposed to be like something so epic.

But like it wasn't. But like let's say this. Like because I don't – I like to see both sides. Like I'm an honest person. So I could look at it all negatively like that it was someone else's fault. But like in reality, if I would have showed up there like, yo, this is a legend. Like he was like a legendary writer who like has something going on for sure. Like Atlantic – yeah, Atlantic Records sent us to his house to work with him as a writer

and like we didn't wait as a writer yeah he was like a composer okay it's weird though because he writes like songs from the 80s like he's not like writing rap songs and like we are not like playing guitar or piano so it was kind of weird don't get me wrong but all i'm saying is this like i we showed up and just fucked around for a little bit and didn't really do anything that interesting and left but you know if i could go back you know maybe i would have showed up with like a few beats in mind where i'm like oh here's three beats that i like and here's like a song that i wrote and i want you to play something on the piano that's kind of like this and then give me this and then boom i could have a song with his credits on it that he would then support and so i would have that much support

like bringing it to the label to be like oh here's a song i made with so-and-so after that writing session like do you like it and they would be way more to be likely to be like oh yeah we like it because like the guy made it and at the end of the day all they want is their hands in everyone's pockets in the project so um you know that's kind of the two sides to it on one side like we went there fucked around and did nothing but on the other side that's kind of because we were a little bit immature i didn't have an exact plan and the way that i know to move now is to just like take charge know exactly what you want ask for what you want and when you don't think shit is perfect or if it's not exactly your vision you sometimes you

got to play like the waiting game in this industry especially this happens with music videos too it's like i want like these like you know annoying edits like i'm just like with every music video i'm just like i want it to be perfect like you either sit you preferably you sit down next to me and we just go through it together it's nice and chill smoke some weed whatever but like if i'm gonna send you edits it's gonna be line by line bullet notes like second by second like do this do this do this and so at some point i feel like a lot of editors get annoyed with me but it's just like all right like i won't drop that video then i'm just gonna wait like because i want it to be perfect like it and then that's what i've realized too is just like

the patience pays a lot in life. In life. That is just, that is not just the music industry. That is just in life. Patience and consistency. Two of the, you know, have you ever heard, like, this study? They did this study of kids. I'm pretty sure it was, like, it was a study about delayed gratification, which is basically patience.

And I think the study was, like, they put a candy or a marshmallow in front of some kids and see how long this kids could wait until they eat it and anyway moral of the story is that patience or delaying gratification is the biggest predictor for success in life so it's like literally if you have that ability to just like hold out and be patient when others are kind of rushing to the finish line sometimes that can be very profitable long term and very helpful to you well that's why the whole record label process and I and and I like how you say you don't want to broad brush everything that's important because there's look the first guy I

ever met in in the music industry is one, he's like one of the greatest of all time. And he was a pure artist guy. Found that guy over there, right? So, you know, that was my first impression. I'm like, oh, they must all be like this. And then you find out over the years, well, they're not, right? And the guys who are great, at least from what I can tell, are the ones who think, even if they're not a creative themselves like if they're on the a and r side they better be a creative but they think like the artist does and so there's no walls around creativity like when you were making jordan

belfort you said that you were literally like you were on the vibe at wes's house you're going through it and then you were chomping at the bit driving over there the next morning to get into it you had nowhere to be. There's nothing else on your mind. It's like, we got this thing. I'm going to see it through. It's going to be perfect. And you created a perfect song, so congratulations.

That's how it happens, right? So now you fast forward to when you get a record deal, and they're like, okay, you're going to be scheduled at 2 o'clock to go over to this fucking motherfucker's house and talk to him about how to compose music. And by the way, he wrote it in the 80s, and and you're gonna have approximately two and a half hours because that's his schedule and it's like you got it right you got it right that is what it's like dude you just you just brought it to life like you did that's it though it's like you you listen to the greats

like dr dre he talks about being at the goddamn table for 72 hours and not knowing three days went by because he is so locked in on one bar from a beat right like one transition that he makes that's why he's dr fucking dre and i see i see creatives like you and i see guys who talk about this and i love how you talk about it because you're very fair you're not like you're very careful not be like you know fuck this fuck that it's like yeah i had to figure out some shit myself too yeah but you see it like you're coming up when you're 19 years old 20 years old like you're young as fuck and you're like all right well i guess i'm gonna do what these people say and then you get in there and you're like wait this is not this is not how we did it this is not how it happens yeah it's like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa hold up a minute

this is not wes's basement we did not just smoke a grab bong. We are at some old man's house, and he won't stop playing motherfucking piano, man. And I'm just in his pool house. But yeah, man. Yo, they call it the music business. They don't call it the music arts and fun. Like, you know, it is a business at the end of the day. The reason they call it music business is because it is a business. to be successful in business you need that level of perfectionism like you know being shitty doesn't fly in business like you have to be the best you have to pretty much be

a perfectionist or someone involved in the process has to be the right type of perfectionist i you know i'm i think everybody has potential and the ability to become something great but at the same time i know that not everybody has the level of perfection required to deliver product like in anything and i just mean i do mean that as a blanket statement like not everybody at this current time is at a point in their life where they can be a perfectionist enough to deliver some kind of product. Like in music, you see that all the time. Like it's the reason why most artists don't put anything out.

Like I'm sure everyone listening to this right now can think of their friend or someone they know who's a rapper who says they're a rapper, but they don't put out any music or they haven't put out any music in years. And you're just like, like, what are you doing, man? You still say you're a rapper. Just put out some music. And it is that simple, but it's not that simple because like people want to be a perfectionist but they can't get it to the finish line and so like it is that perfect combination of like i'm a perfectionist like i know how it should be and i know how i want it but i also

have that drive and motivation to push it to the finish line okay now I'm with you okay I actually didn't see you landing on that so I'm glad you did is what I was gonna come in with to clarify to see if you were on the same page is like I agree with you that not everyone's like that and not everyone can do that and not everyone's thinking about that one note right there like they just don't have that in them but when you talk about people who you know they say they're a rapper they say they're a singer but they don't release stuff a lot of the time I think a part of it is not just like like they almost hide behind that oh I'm a perfectionist it's like yeah no they're just so afraid to put themselves out

there and or it's can be a combination or it can be separate they don't want it that bad yeah you know what that what you just said is the unfortunate truth for a lot of people because they think they want it but they don't want it that bad because they don't really even know what it means to work that hard like and i've worked very hard to get where i am like just working all day in the studio like just like you said losing track of time working on just being so frustrated like thinking i was gonna have to quit thinking i was gonna have to like start working doordash or some shit because crypto's in the fucking dumps i'm not making enough money off my streaming and next thing you know i'm looking at doordash but a couple weeks later it's like i get a new fucking publishing deal and i get

a new check-in from my royalties and then crypto goes up all at once so like life is a fucking roller coaster man life is a roller coaster there's ups and downs and you know sometimes it's just about like keeping a straight face through the whole thing and just finding what that one thing that you love to do is and just sticking with that and that's what i realized like you know there's gonna be ups and downs i could worry about like financial security and getting like a good job in a 401k and all that shit or i can just realize that like there is something deeper about this universe there is such thing as like a purpose and when you are truly on your purpose and like doing something that you're passionate about i genuinely think you will always find a way and that's like on a deeper level like the universe makes a way for you like i do believe that shit and that's like some spiritual stuff but i do believe that like when you are pursuing

your passion the universe will make a way for you and if you if you have what it takes and you're working hard like you won't actually end up being completely broke which is like the worry like at the end of the day like people are worried about a lot of things when you get down to the nitty-gritty of it it's like a lot of things are like a business and like this music shit it's like maybe my album will be good maybe some people will like it some people won't like it but at the end of the day i need to make money to continue being an artist and that's sad artists don't like that like i'm a very much a business music business like i said like i'm a business artist but a lot of people who are pure artists they don't like a lot of what i'm saying i get that kind of feedback all the time like what

i'm saying sometimes is like very confrontational almost artists it's like i'm not trying to be confrontational i'm just speaking my truth like i'm just speaking my truth but you know both worlds yeah i feel like i do know both worlds but a lot of people are just like well fuck the business world i just want to be an artist and do purely what i want and that's where you get it actually comes back to kind of what you were saying which is like some people don't want it bad enough like some people don't want the business success bad enough they just want their art to be the way they want their art to be and i don't want it bad enough like some people don't want the business success bad enough they just want their art to be the way they want their art to be and i and i start and that's something that i see a lot more of like now i would say as i've grown more into this artist role i've become way

more like okay like i'm just gonna make shit the way i want it and if it works out great um but there's so many levels to this right a lot of people do fall on that level where like i'm just gonna make shit the way i want it and if it works out great um but there's so many levels to this right a lot of people do fall on that level where they're like i'm not doing one fucking i won't even post on instagram to try to be businessy and that's like you're never getting anywhere buddy i'm sorry like we live in this social media age like you want to be a music artist you're gonna have to learn how to do instagram you're gonna have to learn the tiktoks you're gonna have to put yourself out there you're gonna have to do all that buddy're going to have to learn the TikToks. You're going to have to put yourself out there. You're going to have to do all that, buddy, or else you don't want it bad enough. And I know you're an artist and you just want to rap and you love rapping and you think that a manager is going to come along and then the manager is going to see how good you are. And

all of a sudden they're going to manage all the Instagram and TikToks for you. Like, no, it's not how it works. I'm sorry. Like, most people will never get to my level of musical success. Like, if you're listening right now and you're trying to be an artist, it's very unlikely that you'll get a platinum hit. I hope you do. I swear to God, I hope you do. You have to create opportunities. When you get there, you'll be in my position and realize that even where I am, it still

makes sense for me to make my own lyric videos, sit there on Adobe Premiere and make a lyric video to my song. Why? Because I might have to go pay someone $500,000 to do that. I'm a full-time artist. I have all my time to work on my own shit. So people underestimate the value of those little things. Like, even my little brother looks at me and he's like, dude, you shouldn't be making a lyric video.

Like, you don't need to do that shit. Like, hire someone to do do that i'm just like no like you're not you're not getting it like you like it truly is like that like you have to figure out how to do everything yourself if you can because it saves you so much money it's not even just saving you money though because you're right 100 like yeah you could go someone's gonna be like yeah i think the market's five grand to to do a quick lyric video it takes them fucking two hours but like you're paying them to do it music industry well and you know what and you're right and it's even more than that though anything that's like a quick piece of value that you just don't want to do the dirty work for people are going to upcharge on it that's why that's how the world works the thing about the music industry is like whatever whatever, like everything is like,

everything is like, nothing is priced fairly. That's what I have to say. Nothing is priced fairly. If you're talking about something in the music industry, they're almost always going to price it based on how much they think they can get out of you. It's just like a record. And this is all industries,

but particularly the music industry, where like you you said the lyric video might take them two hours they're probably willing to do it for like a couple hundred bucks but they're gonna come out with 5k they're gonna tell you 5k up front because who knows if you just got a quarter million dollars from atlantic records and it's the first time you ever had money and you think oh a 5k well that's only a tiny bit compared to 250 000 i'm like i mean and it's tough because when you first get that kind of money you're like oh shit like now i'm rich i can pay for everything but it doesn't last that long and you need to

figure that shit out so yeah i mean you need to you need to figure out ways to create value for yourself i think that's the key in this if there's nothing like if there's nothing you can't do in making your craft and making everything pop the world's your oyster because you know that if push came to shove and the world ended and like you had to take care of it you can yeah when people get stuck where it's like oh you know i gotta learn how to do that now they lose they lose time they lose they lose fucking morale they they also that's when they actually have an understanding and an appreciation for what goes into it not just the monetary value yeah but like the way that the music industry the reason i think that there's such a stereotype for this is because the

music industry the music business as said, these guys are fucking businessmen. They know how, they understand the lifeblood that is money. They understand how to actually manage cash flow and shit like that. And they understand that a lot of artists, even ones you see on music videos, stacking, you know, hundreds of

thousands of dollars like this, they're creatives. A lot of them don't have like your mind of business with creative you have a great combination of that right and that's why you know you're fucking 20 years old and you're getting deep into crypto in 2016 when people are looking at you like you have 10 heads because you're like yo all right i like this creativity but there's also another end of life here and like i'm also learning, probably, through the music industry. I need to be able to control my own shit, too, because this ain't it.

Yeah. No, you're 100% right. And I think, also, it's just a long and tough battle of establishing yourself. Because a lot of people do look at me, and they think, oh, I'm probably an artist. Or the most common thing is people just don't understand what I do at all. Basically, I have a girlfriend i've been dating her for like a little over six months now so when things were new she knew i made jordan belfort um and she was just trying to figure out what i do right and i think a lot of people look at me and like see that i made a song or whatever

they don't know anything about that, first of all. Nobody understands how music works or how I got to making a song or what that means or the fact. A lot of people don't even go to this point where they're like, oh, someone who made a song is probably an entrepreneur. That's not necessarily, for the average person, they don't necessarily think that, even though it's obvious to me. And I think it's obvious to people who are like following rap these days and stuff. But yeah, so like she, you know, and now after, you know, being with her a while, like getting to know her more, you know, I think it's very obvious that I am an entrepreneur in so many ways. And what I do goes a lot beyond just like making a song. And, you know, there's different products.

I have my own merch. I have my own, you know, I make my own art. I'm doing NFTs. I'm doing all this different stuff. And so I think that it takes a little bit for people to realize that I am this entrepreneur and the different things I do. And so I think it's going to be like, you know,

it takes your whole career before you get to the point where people are like, oh, this is like an entrepreneur person. Like you think about someone like Jordan Belford. It's like he was a hot new sales guy. But to like become this legendary, you know, Wall Street scammer, it didn't happen right away. The movie came X amount of years after he did the shit, which is like before before that he was just think about this before the wolf of wall street movie jordan belford washed up scammer like straight up i will give i'll give him a lot of credit for this though yeah he did obviously like now he has a public brand that he's

also built on top of with this cultural phenomenon but like when he got out of prison he was like well even if i used it for the wrong reasons i am really fucking good at selling yeah and he leveraged the fuck out of that and he went around he said look i went to prison don't do what i did but as far as like if you have a good product you believe in that's legal here's how to sell it yeah it's a good thing to do man no it is it is 100 and i mean it just shows that like everything takes time so you know i'm just going to continue doing what i'm doing like making great music like chasing culturally relevant topics as well just with all my shit and like it takes time like in 2016 2017 nobody knew about crypto compared to what

what it is now you did yeah i knew about crypto i knew about nfts they had nfts back then one of my buddies made a ton of ethereum off buying nfts back then the first one was what like summer 2017 something like that what the first nft yeah i don't know but probably because that's when like crypto kitties were coming out exactly um like stuff like that so i like yeah one of my cuspac he bought uh a hackatow which is an artist he bought one of those nfts uh for probably like half an ether and put it up at five ether and then he came back all these years later and it had sold like many many months before for five ether and then it was trading at like 20 does he get secondary sales on

that the artist would get secondary would maybe get secondary sales he bought it sorry yeah so the actually what's cool about nftTs is the artist could get secondary sales. But yeah, basically what happened is he bought it from the artist for half an Ether and then resold it to someone else for five Ether. Whether or not the artist gets a cut of that, I'm not sure. This may have been before they implemented the split, the splitting of revenue like that. But now you can create NFTs where the artist will always get a cut in perpetuity. But you knew about these then for like yeah yeah oh no i've known about this shit for a long time but also there's um a weakness

to knowing about something which is like it's harder to see like the new wave coming when you already know about something does that make sense like yes you hear about nfts in 2017 it's a little bit harder to see that like 2021 is going to be the year that they go absolutely skyrocket um but that being said I've I've been big in nfts you know I sold 25 of my crypto rich nfts I created the first music album nft combo where it um wait when was that so I released my nft in like um probably March March or April this year this year yeah um and the way it works is basically if you have an nft you're like a dill VIP I have a whole VIP program that I built around it but it's also a collectible artwork that people can resell at any time. And so if my album gets really, really big, I hope that the NFT will sort of represent the

popularity of the album. And if the album gets huge, maybe my NFT will be worth something one day. All the NFTs that are really big have taken years to get to that point. Yes. NFTs don't just, I mean, actually in the market we're in now some people have been lucky or you know let's say their art was great too they're lucky and their art was great that's that's what it always requires right guys like you're lucky and your art is great that's what it requires when people are taught when when people are given like the punch line of like people or something i come right back at them and tell them to shut the fuck up because like that is quality people created brilliant pieces for 13 straight years every day right and put them into a collage and sold it as a 101 that's a modern day

fucking michelangelo yeah you know whereas where i'll level is you know because we were getting involved in this industry i guess you could call it back in january like i'd been looking at it in november december and then we been looking at it in November, December, and then we started looking at doing some deals. And from day one, I was saying to people like anyone we were talking to, I'm like, you need, like, I tried to set the expectation on the other side. I'm like, 90% of what you're seeing right now is dog shit worth nothing. Cause you have people just putting out a scribble and saying, Oh, buy my NFT, getting in on the craze. Right? So you have to separate that from what's an actual asset that's being created,

whether it's like just, oh, it's a brilliant artist creating a brilliant piece like Beeple, or, oh, it's someone who's got a lot of clout who's also creating a decent piece that has a lot of value going around it that somehow is going to be tradable in the future. Those are the ones that rise to the top. Yeah, that's right. I definitely fall into the second category there. And you know what? Thefts have been cool they've been hard to sell i would say i mean i did pretty well with them you do it on open c but yeah i did it on open c and rarible i have i have them on both on on open c and rarible do you mint your own stuff

yeah i did awesome yeah so i i uh i did that um and you know i've got some holders i just figured like it's a long-term thing but at the end of the day i think nfts are hard to sell it takes a lot of work and for someone like me i like the nfts but i also just need to focus on like new music videos and stuff like that um but i'm i'm very active in in NFT communities. I'm big on Clubhouse for NFTs. I help run NFTS Tips, which is like the biggest Clubhouse room on NFTs. I'm a mod in there. So I've been very involved with this whole rise

and resurgence of NFTs. Just trying to stay involved in the crypto space. I think this recent NFT run was really great for me because this time it opened up an audience of thousands and thousands of people who really understood my music. I would say that connecting with the NFT communities in this past year has been the first time that I've ever found an audience where everybody immediately understands my album. Because if you just show crypto rich album to the average listener maybe now they actually will have a little perspective but let's say a year ago before like crypto really was blowing up like people didn't even care about crypto anymore they were like oh bitcoin isn't that something that like crashed and so but even now people don't get

crypto so like they might sort of see like crypto rich but it doesn't like it doesn't really mean anything to them but with the nft communities they immediately look at this and go like oh crypto rich like it's about crypto it's crypto art like it's so related to nfts like they immediately see the vision um so i really like that just having that audience who could understand what i'm doing in a different way you're you're hitting on and we talked about this on the phone last week when i was talking to you for the first time but like your original song we touched this today it it hit on culture right it hit on a center of culture yeah and now you're making music that's hitting on another center of culture that's like kind of like it's controversial in the sense that

controversial is a bad word to use for it but in the sense that like people either are like all about it and they're like oh yeah that shit right but either way it's got attention and like anything else it's on the path of adoption so i think like when you're combining those passions obviously like it could be pretty special because it's special to you like it's honest it's coming from where you come from my question is like where you're at with it though yeah because when people are talking about when they throw around the word crypto or cryptocurrency i remember back in 2017 that's when i first was investing in it i was really looking at it started looking at it like february march 2017 and i didn't invest until towards the end of the year but i was really looking at blockchain and like what it was

and so obviously a bitcoin which was like the god at blockchain i'm like what it was and so obviously a bitcoin which was like the godfather of all of it because it was the truly decentralized created without you know pseudonymous creator all that stuff but you know i'm like okay is this possible like is can the world go in this direction and then as the market went way the fuck up for everything you saw all these fucking companies like run to it you know out of nowhere and my favorite story is there was a company called long island iced tea long blockchain baby okay so you know this story so just i know every book just all right you know your shit man no one's ever known that really nice i got you bro every every fucking piece of

crypto history tell people what that was tell that tell people that story like yeah that was that was just a publicly traded stock long island long island iced tea it wasn't penny stock i guess um but they just changed their name to long blockchain and then had some huge returns maybe you know how much it went up i don't know oh yeah and then it went through i haven't looked at recently it went through the floor because they changed it they went way up exactly and then the bottom came like two months later and everyone's like wait what the fuck because didn't they get sec action for doing that dude they got totally fucked they they were making long island iced tea like in a can and they weren't even selling it like they were they were

honestly this is a stock that jordan belfort back in the day in his less holy days would have looked at and said, we're taking that one to the mall. Oh, yeah. Right? So then they changed their name to Long Island Blockchain. And I remember looking at that going, that's not good. That's a top signal. And it was. But the thing I really liked about it is it gave me an opportunity to step back and be like, okay, I thought I understood things.

I don't. Right? Like there's a lot of shit here. But I like this space. I like this trend. I see all the pieces of society, like how culturally it ties in. And so then I started to study it. And then I actually was like, wow, I invested like an idiot.

I was fucking investing in Tron. What the fuck did I know? So I look at it and now like just full disclosure, I'm mainly a Bitcoin guy. That is my bread and butter. And then the only other one that I'm in a little bit, it's about 80-20, maybe 85-15 is Ethereum, which I don't need to get into why right now.

We can talk about that later. But like I look at everything else very skeptically and I also would not hesitate to call myself uneducated on a lot of other things because i've seen that movie before i've seen where humans come out with this new company that's called a crypto company and they create this new coin that's going to do this thing and it has no supply cap on it i'm like what the fuck so my thought is like unless it shows me a clear value proposition that's not xrp and trying to work with all the fucking people they're trying to end with this shit sorry but unless it's something like that

i'm like nah i'm not really about it so my question for you is what are you in like where did you get started with it were you a bitcoin guy you mentioned ethereum earlier with like the that's hilarious by the way it's story like how to get rich hilarious but like bitcoin ethereum was there anything else and then like what else do you think about the space and and where do you see it going yeah well even driving over here uh the Uber driver was talking to me and and he knew Jordan buffered song and so we started talking about crypto Ridge and he started asking me about crypto and he was saying like I'm all in on cardano man and that's cool like there's a lot of good coins out there um so sell cardano right now everyone stop the podcast sell cardano right now continue yeah so you know i i tell

people first of all i think you're spot on you know bitcoin and ethereum is where most of your money should be my introduction to crypto my first investment in crypto was with Ethereum. But that wasn't my first time using crypto. I used crypto back in the day when they had Silk Road. When I was in high school, I took some of my summer job money and bought some Bitcoin to order stuff off Silk Road. And I remember at that time thinking, like, yo, this Bitcoin stuff is cool. Like, if I had any money money i would probably buy some to invest but like i'm in high school you know any money i have i'm trying to spend on chipotle and

mcdonald's and weed and booze like whatever where'd you get bitcoin back then um you had to buy it on mount matt mcgox mcgox yeah so okay bought it on there and it's funny because i even got like the class action liquidation or lawsuit email in the past well that was probably like three or four years ago now but yeah that's where i originally bought bitcoin and you have bit do you have bitcoin stolen off there no i didn't get bitcoin stolen in their major hack but i did get bitcoin stolen when i deposited some into this site called alpha bay which then went which was just another version of silk road after silver got shut down which this was in college um which then had did an exit scam the night that i put money in just by chance like i hadn't touched crypto for years and then i was going to do this one thing and that night uh exit scammed

and they took our money um did you get all your weed on on silk road no i never got weed on there mushroom um but other stuff you know um just experimenting you know back in the day but um do you follow that case at all the the ross case i don't follow it a ton but i know like you know free ross it's fucked up yeah dude it is fucked up i mean um but you know what do you expect if you're gonna run like a giant dark web drug ring but i mean yeah i know a ton about the whole story like everything where they like basically got him conspiring and murder and like it's all they never charge him for that you know yeah it's so it's like you know the when it comes when you're fucking with the law they are just as dirty as

the bad guys look if you don't know that by now the police and government and all them they'll do just as bad shit as the criminals so i think about that a lot one of one of my buddies who i had on the podcast my guy jim diorio is like legit you know he was he was west point roommates with mike pompeo was over in somalia with the army rangers came back 15 11 years undercover fbi 15 is like the international interrogator he was the one going on captain phillips ship and saying get the fuck off to the pirates you know legit as fuck and like we talked about it on our podcast a little bit and i talk about it with him all the time like that concept of trying to get a result yeah you know like these guys their job isn't to be like oh let's find people innocent today it's like all right here's a case go fucking get it you know what i mean and it creates i think a lot of times in law

enforcement certainly there's corruption and certainly there's some guys who are bad right it's like anything else but i think that there's also people who get caught up in the oh we have a job to do here's the end result that we need in order to fucking you know get our check mark on our fucking resume and you know they they do that and the one thing he does say is that when it gets to a really high level like that it's really hard to be innocent at that point you know which i'll probably agree with my thing is something like ross is a great example because the way they hacked his server you talk to anyone who's even a basic hacker let alone like a real professional hacker they know that their

explanation is not possible like they clearly violated privacy to go do that to get a result and then they threw this case at him in the court of public opinion quietly tossed out all the main charges like the big ones and instead of him getting a 5-10 year sentence which he should have gotten because it is illegal to do that you can't do that right but like instead of getting something like that and then maybe using his skills for good in the future, they go, oh, double life. Go away. That's where it gets fucked up to me. Yeah, well, they're just trying to set an example in that case, you know?

Like, at the end of the day, you just have to realize, like, the war on drugs is what it is. Like, the government does what it does, even if you don't agree with that which i don't think you should but if you don't agree with that doesn't mean that you can just like like the you know the u.s government is very very powerful in this world no they are they are i mean that's the thing and i and i'm not i'm not even saying that's a great thing all the time because it's not a great thing all the time. I mean, you know, there's all types of fucked up shit that happens. A friend of mine was shot during a no-knock FBI raid in D.C. area. This was actually the start of the pandemic.

No shit. It was someone I know that was in involved in cryptocurrencies like very libertarian type of person like pro gun rights and stuff like that and um basically the fbi or you know had gotten a tip that he had a lot of guns at his house etc etc and basically they got a terrorism tip which then they got a no knock warrant and so what happened is they how'd they got a terrorism tip, which then they got a no-knock warrant. And so what happened is they went— How'd they get to terrorism? Dude, I don't know. That's what's so scary about this situation.

I mean, it's sad. Like, it makes me sad to talk about it. But then they went to his house, and they—it's a no-knock warrant. So they basically break into the house. And he, like, got out of bed and, like, grabbed his gun, like, being, like, a pro pro gun person because they were just breaking into his house and then um like basically the guys who were like looking from out the window or something saw him with a gun while their other guys were inside and they shot him like sniper like they died and he died oh he died he died yeah your friend died yeah pretty up i'm sorry it's up too because like with my we had actually done a crypto interview with him, with my crypto company.

Is this a public case? Yeah. I mean, dude, it's fucked up. There hasn't been. Do you mind me asking his name? Yeah, his name is Duncan Lemp. You can look it up. Okay, keep going.

Yeah, look up Duncan Lemp. So anyway, yeah, he was killed in like an FBI raid. And I haven't actually filed the case recently, but it was kind of fucked up because it was right when COVID was starting and all of the police and judicial systems were shut down. So it really got no coverage. And like, you know, I mean, look, it got no coverage and it doesn't help that like he was like kind of libertarian, likes guns, like average white suburban kids. So there was no no coverage yeah no i've never heard of this in my life i have the i want to give it i want to give it its due right yeah i have the wikipedia like literally just the basic wikipedia page

which i'm glad they at least have like some detail in here on march this shit even took so long right like this this happened on march 12th this is not kidding you. It took months before any of this popped up. No one was talking about this. And it's crazy because I'm like, I know this kid. I wasn't involved in the shit he was. But it's just like, he didn't do anything wrong. He had a website. He had a website that he started where he was talking about.

It was kind of like a militia type of thing. It wasn't anti-government. But it was like a like a militia type of thing where it was like he it was like it was like and it wasn't anti-government but it was like a pro-constitution pro-constitution like gun rights libertarian he's like roger bear like yeah like like but he had like a website and he had like he would write stuff about this and so like what would he write like stuff just about like pro constitution like how people can protect their their rights and stuff like that and he was like working on building this like group which is like what i think what did he call the group i'm not entirely sure you can probably look it up on

yeah let me give the context real quick and then let's keep talking about so on march on march 12th 2020 duncan socrates his middle name was socrates? That's amazing. Socrates Lemp was fatally shot at his home in Potomac, Maryland during a no-knock police raid by the Montgomery County Police Department SWAT team. Police have said that Lemp was shot after confronting an officer, that's in quotes, confronting, during the execution of the raid. Lemp's family has said through their attorney that based on an eyewitness, they believe Lemp was shot without warning while he was asleep lemp has since been described as a martyr for the libertarian bungalow movement is that what you're

talking about so so that that's referring to like his general movement but i think he also had like a website type of blog that would have fallen under this movement okay so what it's saying there is that he's like a martyr for like a particular type of libertarian movement. I also know that he had like a personal website where he would like post about this stuff and like write about libertarian stuff. Only through crypto and through I. I personally know him through. He came to my apartment and did an interview with Advantage Blockchain where we talked to him about crypto. He was good at algorithmic trading. And that's like a company. was like a quant yeah he was like a very talented quant trader which he's super young he's you can see you can watch the interview so anyway

the we did an interview with him and oh what else did i want to say it was that yeah you know he was party part of that movement like had his own blog and stuff but yeah i mean dude it's like when was the interview it it does seem like they basically made this case against uh for terrorism and then basically assassinated him for being like pro-constitution and like that's what it looks like to me what was the interview the interview that we did of him was probably in like 2019. so not long before you know not long before at all that's what really how we got here is like that interview on our youtube kind of blew up like it has like a couple thousand views and a couple hundred likes because it was pretty much

the only piece of duncan lamp content like being normal let me let me read the warrant section real quick just to continue this this is what i'm gonna go on a rabbit this is a huge problem about about these no knock warrants and also this is what brionna Taylor, this is how she got killed. And I also wanted to say, the reason it said that question mark confronts police is because I remember the original story, which is that he stands up with a gun just trying to figure out what the fuck's going on. Like, who do I hear on the other side of this door?

Other side of this door. I think, and also this is like, it's his word against, it's their word against their word is i think that that based on the original story that i saw is that the cops were on the other side of his interior door and the cops from the outside saw him approaching that door where they knew their guys were there so they shot him in the back like think about that like they shot him in the back yeah like they basically shot him in the back they did they think about that. Wait, they shot him in the back? Yeah, like they basically shot him in the back.

They didn't have a shootout with him. He didn't fire his weapon. Okay. The warrant section. Detectives assigned to the Investigative Services Bureau received an anonymous tip that Lemp illegally possessed firearms. Police stated that, quote, detectives applied for and received a no-knock search warrant. Oh, so they got a warrant for it. For the crimes of possession of an assault weapon and possession of a firearm by a prohibited person unquote police stated that limp had a criminal history in juvenile court that prohibited him from legally possessing firearms

until the age of 30 an attorney for limp's family said the family had been unaware of any conviction that would have prevented that's sketchy that would have prevented limp from owning a gun so wow all right i'm not going to read this whole thing. People, go check this page. You literally type in Duncan Lemp, and you'll get the shooting of Duncan Lemp Wikipedia page. That's fucking nuts. I need to look into it more. Yeah, I need to reread this, man.

There's a lot more information there than the last time I looked at it. That is fucking insane. And this is the thing, man. This is the thing about government that scares me. Because I try to be a realist with things, right? I can speak out of both sides of my mouth on this. And I can say, hey, we have the best system in the world compared to other countries. 100%.

Doesn't mean that there's not fucked up things that happen here. Yeah, there are. I mean, we know that shit. I mean, listen to this part. This part right here. Which part? Go ahead. Lemp's family maintains that according to an eyewitness, the officer's initiated gunfire

and flashbangs went through his window without warning while he was sleeping. Now, is it any surprise that none of the body cam footage has been released? Yeah, it says as of October 2020, neither body cam footage nor the arrest warrant has been released. That says it all right there. This is, dude, you know what? And I told, when I had Ashton on here, we had a long conversation about cops, right? And I've had a lot of other long conversations. That was the longest one on here.

But I've been really fucking hard on cops on the show. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm too hard on them or whatever. But this is the problem you have enough of them who are like just fucking i don't know if the word's like zealot or whatever they just want to fucking be a tough guy and go get a result like i was talking about earlier with that whole question of like the feds and what they do it's with cops too right and then they go to do things like this and and then you hear nothing why because you see enough people who are like you don't ever talk about that publicly because we'll get and that's how you see videos like i don't know if you saw that that guy who's a lieutenant in the army there's a video release

this is in like april this guy who literally he was in his fatigues black guy in the army goes to get pulled over in a car that he bought 45 minutes before. So it has the it has the temporary plate in the back. Yeah. Pulls into a gas station under the lights because he's like, I don't know about this. They pull fucking guns on him. They pepper spray him and whatever. We only saw that video, that body cam and everything.

Once he had already filed suit in court four months later. You don't see when when when something goes wrong they don't put it out there like people who are who are like yo this is fucked up like people who should be about the job like yo that's not what we represent which a lot of cops are like that right yeah but the ones are a lot of them are a lot of them are and that's why i feel bad because it's like i could say just rough percentages 80 of cops are probably probably great guys. But there's the people in that 20%. They're not all bad guys. It's just a lot of them don't talk about the fucking 1% that's doing shit like this.

It's fucked up, man. No, it is. It is. And I mean, this is such a touchy subject, but I'll go on the record and say I fully support cops. Defunding the police is so stupid all that shit is so fucking dumb the cops are here to help the cops are most of the time helping to maintain peace things go wrong they have too much power should they be carrying a gun you know that's there should they be able to use x amount of force in these different situations? You know, you can get into the nitty gritty details on that.

But at the end of the day, like, cops are necessary. Like, we, I do think that we need, there needs to be that type of person there that can enforce things and help to keep things in order. Like, I do not think, I think the reason we have cops is because with without some kind of authority there to help situations the world is chaos and you know the world is the world is chaos as it is so a lot of things we have in place are to hopefully make a little bit of sense in this chaotic world and make it so that we can cooperate at least a little bit so like you get some bad apples but you know like when it gets into the we were hearing last summer about cops that's when i'm just like yo i can't

believe they're putting this on tv like and that's when it's just like look i think everyone went through this last summer where i was just like okay i can't watch the news anymore like i can't have like i i was already there before that but okay i know but yo but no but even this listen this because i i feel like you can relate to this it was like i would put on like cnbc in the mornings like every day to just like see what's going on that's mistake stock markets and and just like the anything you got to put on bloomberg dude it got to the point where i can't even watch that i can't even put on any news at all so i mean that's the thing news is there to piss you off that's how they sell

and it's like right yeah you know and and that's like on defund the police it's it's used some people like there's a lot of people who yell that and they're dead fucking serious and they're like no get rid of all their funding and it's like no that's the dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard in my life because how many times do you watch a video of a cop where they shot somebody? And it's a fucking donut patrolman who's like, sir, sir, sir, sir, stop, sir. It's like, dude, I've shot a gun like four times on a range, and I know you don't hold a fucking gun like that. You know? It's a lack of training, right? And so if you defund, we already don't have enough training.

Like, how the fuck do you get rid of that? Whereas what I'll say is my friend Terrence Jones, who was on this podcast laid it out brilliantly where he's and and this is where i'm like well why do they have to use that language but he's like when we're saying when he says defund the police i'll speak for him he's like i don't mean because his dad was a cop too he's like i don't mean like defund it so they have less stuff i'm saying there's some things that you can say hey they shouldn't have to deal with that so take the funding from that and then be able to say like oh no you still deal with all this stuff and my response to that is twofold as long as a we can give them more training than they currently have including hand-to-hand combat which they have like

two hours a year on average which is like i mean dude i'll fucking i'll fuck up a cop if he's training two hours a year like i box yeah i'll fuck him up you know and then on top which is like i mean dude i'll fucking i'll fuck up a cop if he's training two hours a year like i box yeah i'll fuck him up you know and then on top of that like firearms training and shit as long as you don't get rid of that and as long as you don't stretch it to hey you know for example if it's like a serious domestic violence incident a social worker can deal with that no if it's like something like that i want to fucking cop there with a gun you know what i mean like there's a line with things no there is a hundred percent i mean you know it's it's a difficult subject but at the end of the day i i do think police are there to help and i don't think defunding them is the answer and i also don't support this kind of like culture

where you can just have like this very reactionary opinion that has like no basis in logic which i think is like where the whole media is just driving everyone and maybe it's because of social media and this instant gratification culture like you know maybe it's not just because of these evil media major media companies and shit but either way that you want to look at it it's that like whatever story happens now someone's trying to take this extreme emotional reaction and they're just blasting perspectives that aren't logical i think like that's great that's my thought process is like yo like can they at least put shit up here that's true? Like, there's not, that's the way I see it.

The news is actually a bunch of bullshit. Like, it's like, it's like, you know, I try to tell my family this too. Like, my, like, younger siblings and shit. It's like, yo, the news is like Hollywood for news. Like, it's like Hollywood for people who want to hear the, like, fucking fake Hollywood version of what's going on in the world like shit man you got it's it's crazy though you got to be on twitter you got to be on reddit you got to be on all this weird ass shit if you want to actually know what's going on in the world like you got to be reading some fucking redacted files and trying

to figure out some shit like if you actually want to know what's going on in the world you have to look at something that your parents would just think oh this can't be real in my opinion and my parents my parents remember what a lot of parents remember when they were saying like back and when we were kids like 13 14 they're like yeah don't believe what you see on the internet now fucking you know your uncle's posting like a q and on me it's like i know right oh my god it's like they're saying like don't believe anything you see on the internet but now it's like i'm gonna don't believe anything you see on the news that's what i'm gonna be telling my kids they'll probably flip back by them that's how everything goes man it's just like things go this way how did you just say this how did you just say that though what's that you had a really good

phrase for that about the news no no before that where you were describing the news i already forget it but you were you were like it's i don't think you said it's like entertainment it's like hollywood yes that's it it's like the news is like it's not really what's going on in the world the news is like what hollywood wants you to think is going on actually that would be nice if it was what hollywood it's more like what the government wants you to think is going on and then like i don't know it seems to me that one only one perspective gets a lot of support by the news channels yes i mean i guess you have fox news which is you know my mildly conservative in my opinion very very mildly they show somewhat of a more conservative opinion but like everything else in the news is like extremely liberal in my

opinion and you know you have to go and then it's just like the other the other perspectives are then on sites that the major media try to say are not legit. Yes. Right? So it's like, if you want to read another perspective, you can go ahead and do that. But all of the world, according to them, is not agreeing. So I don't know. It's just so much shit, man. It's just like, you got to dig and dig and dig through information

to find the truth. You know how I read those tweets from the major media, like when they tweet out something where it's like a not a legit news source yeah it's it's someone like in their voice like you know according to everything that i've known in my life and you know working at the new york times which is the preeminent organization for all news ever you know according to our reporting standards they don't match that insert blog here yeah and so therefore we know that the agency of this fact cannot be true and therefore we're you know we're according to our reporting standards they don't match that insert blog here yeah and so therefore we know that the agency of this fact cannot be true and therefore we're you know we're not going

to report it as it's not reliable information so you guys shouldn't either and by the way that's why we should censor it and it's like this is the problem and then like six months later six months later they post a story about and that's like look at the lab leak right now yeah you remember when people were racist for don't get me wrong it wasn't racist to say oh i think they ate a bat in fucking china it was racist to say oh the wuhan fucking instant how did john stewart put it it's like the wuhan institute of fucking virology and and then the wuhan virus coronavirus came out of there no way yeah and it's like a year ago the mainstream media is like that was a very racist thing to say now they're all fucking reporting on it dude it's just like if you look the information is there and it's sad how easy it

is to find yet how widespread it is that people don't believe it like look if you in my opinion if you knew what the fuck was going on you knew that the virus came from wuhan like right after it started if you fucking knew what was going on right if you don't know what's going on you don't pay any attention to email leaks you don't believe any of that stuff you only believe stuff that comes directly from the news but it's just like what i've realized is that a lot of things you're just going to be about six months to a year early on and if you know and you can believe that shit then great and i've seen a huge change in the world in the last year or two which is like now everybody is in my opinion now all of my peers are starting to realize that like a lot of shit that comes out in leaks and etc is true

um but wait that comes out in what like leaks like email leaks oh yeah like just just the information that comes out of those things is pretty true especially when you can fucking read it yeah like like like the source itself i mean look at the end of the day like i was very you know like basically i didn't care that much about politics but then when like the Hillary emails came out and everything is like when I just started my you know rabbit hole down conspiracy call it conspiracy if you want I don't know if that's the right word

because all of this shit is true remind me to talk about that off camera with you yeah for sure man I mean it just is what it is but I like talking about these subjects because like things are coming out. Things are being revealed. Like, there is a lot of evil in the world that, like, needs to be handled.

And I think that in many ways it's like, yeah, like, some people did get involved in this bad shit because they were coerced or because you know they got into a situation that they never thought they'd end up in but that doesn't mean like it's okay and that shit can keep getting brushed under the rug so for me it's just like you know i i have so much respect for anyone who is willing to just look at the information that's there instead of just fall in line like everyone else and believe what's on the news and just kind of do whatever seems like everyone else is doing because i don't know i think that you've seen a great example of why of why the news is no longer the news and by the way your take on fox news is like mildly conservative it depends what time of day

you're watching yeah i think and actually i gotta be honest i can't really comment on this because i haven't watched cnn or fox or msnbc now in like a year and a half since before the pandemic right i used to watch it for laughs so i can't say i'm like fully informed i see like some snippets when i'm walking through a room that has it on but based on what i've seen like you've now had and I've seen these snippets over the past few weeks, especially where they're backing it up, showing like the new presidency and how it works the same way. In the last presidency, you had fucking Hannity calling the Oval Office before he went on air every night, right? And then going on the news. And then in this presidency, you have Brian

Stelter asking the fucking press secretary hey what are we doing wrong what are we getting wrong about this and so we are calling like and those are just two networks right there we are calling those things news but they clearly have an arm in the game like it's painfully they're telling you they have an arm in the game and yet people will still say you know they reported objectively because it supports the truths that they want to hear. And like the interesting thing about Trump is that, you know, he was such a fucking, I mean, he was a totally controversial guy in everything he said and did. that this is all like some fucking air bubble that's just full of shit and so like even though i i did especially the second half of his presidency was it was a pain in the ass to me and like i wouldn't want to do that again i look at it now like okay at least there are people who hated him by the way who i know who are like awake to the fact that like all this shit that's

been going on down there in dc for a long time yeah has been a total chess game against us and we don't even know we're fucking playing and I appreciate that because now I agree with your point there are a lot more people who are like let me go check out some blogs and let's see what kind of sources they have on stuff yeah man I mean at the end of the day

it's hard it is hard what does it mean to believe the things that i believe like that's what i think like the average person like for them to go from like a kind of what i consider like a normal mainstream mindset to like where i am now you have to break down a lot of shit that you thought was all good and nice and true to get to where i am and that doesn't come without pain i don't know how else to put it right pain like like you do not realize the bad shit that's going on in the world without some pain where you're like oh shit like i thought

things worked like this but they actually don't work like that and and uh you know that comes with some level of like pain and you you need to be tough to to admit it or else you'll never get there why because you you just you don't have that kind of like depth to keep digging down the rabbit hole beyond because like it's just like there's certain things like everyone has their limit man like there's certain things i can talk about with someone where they'll be like, I can believe these and these conspiracies, but I don't want to talk about aliens and the potential of aliens and being real or whether or not aliens are here or communicating with humans. What about that word, though? What? Aliens?

No. Which one? I mean, aliens is interesting. Everyone should be interested in that. But what about the word conspiracy? We toss that on anything now. Oh, yeah. And it delegitimizes it, even if it's not, like, an actual, you know what I mean?

Yeah, well, I mean, it's funny. Like, it's worth saying this, even though it's, like, the basic thing about conspiracy. But when I talk to people I know, they don't even, the word conspiracy was created by the CIA to use as a word to describe something they didn't want people to believe. When did they create that? I don't know. I don't want to even say because I don't know, but I feel like it was in the 19th century or the 1900s, 50s, 60s. I don't know.

It was like after JFK. Probably. I think. I don't know off the top of my head. I just know. Yeah, look it up but uh yeah so like the cia created this word to be yeah i think it was after jfk right because and then they start saying oh that's a conspiracy theory meaning it's unverified and not true and it's like that doesn't even that doesn't even tell the story to some people because some people

can hear that and they'll just be like oh okay whatever it's just like yo they they're literally creating these words all right so so it may come as no surprise cons that there's even a conspiracy theory about the origins of this label it claims that the cia invented this term in 1967 to disqualify those who question the official version of jfk's assassination this is from Yahoo, by the way. You were just reading the screen. Yeah, this is from Yahoo. For those of you who are making sure that's a verifiable source. This one's on Yahoo, folks.

Is that verifiable? Someone just sent me something today about just stuff with COVID and the vaccine and side effects and shit. And it's just like, I knew about this shit, but now it's on Yahoo News. So people are paying attention. And it's just like i knew about this shit but now it's on yahoo news so people are paying attention and it's just like it just makes me sad but but yeah i mean dude i love talking about this topic like i'm glad we got to hear it's always gotta let's go here let's go but yeah man dude it's just like it's just like uh you know conspiracy theory if you hear that word then you should be thinking twice about something and no but like what i was

saying before is like there's just limits with this shit to where it's like i know people who will like believe conspiracy stuff about the government or like who like realize what's going on with like human trafficking and stuff like this but then they don't want to talk about like again i'll go to aliens because that's just like a typical one for me where like i know a lot of people who like believe these things but like to them the prospect of aliens is just like stupid whereas i think that like that's another one where i'll go deep on that i mean i have a song called aliens that's literally like like the aliens is i'm gonna run the whole world yeah of course fly sky i need an alien fly Fly spaceships, I get alien rich Okay, Area 51, this is the alien dissection

Gotta take a minute to rap about my erection I busted in the alien, hope the kids ain't retarded My dick is so big that I'm a target I got abducted by an alien bitch Then I fucked it, don't listen to the government I don't trust it, we was fucking in our saucer That bitch, she had a bucket You can see the UFO cause all the pictures, they are public

Like aliens is I'ma run the whole world like aliens is fly fly fly i need an alien bitch and some fly space ships i got alien rich hold up hold up okay that was that was pretty brilliant i almost don't need to play now but i'm just playing i'm playing real quick let's roll gotta roll the weed before we eat no cap i was laughing in the past tense i left Ooh, this is good. I haven't heard this. This is good. I don't need to recite. I don't feel no pain. Don't need lean. I'm fine. When you smoke my weed. i want you to get if you're cool with this i want you to give me that instrumental do you have that file yeah yeah i got it and you can put it behind cuz like if it's yeah

I never know when it's gonna make sense But like when I'm making a tick-tock video depending on like what the mood is Oh, yeah, like at some point I'll use that from the library. Oh, yeah. That's a good beat Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So you've been in this so you've been into aliens for a while. Oh, yeah, man I made a whole song about aliens and so my i was just talking my buddy alessi who actually you know what i should have you go on his podcast this kid this kid's a stud that'd be dope man all right you'd be buying in early this kid's like 20 21 years old full-time student in college during this whole like pandemic has been just traveling the cities and

like working from there has done a full-time podcast never missed a week talented as fuck and what he does is he gets a lot of guys who were like probably like one third of his guests something like that will be people who were like on the joe rogan podcast and he'll get him for an hour on zoom and like he's the best so definitely like want you to talk to him but i was talking to him this week about aliens because like i love a good conspiracy theory i love like poking holes in it and shit but like the one that i've been more like into but i've never been like fully into like never sat up like damn i wonder if like you know what i mean yeah is aliens and yet it should it's like the main one because it's like imagine if another fucking civilization is like among us or like

they've been here dude i'm gonna tell you something that some people might think i'm so dumb but i don't give a fuck good all right good just watch ancient aliens the show on history channel and every time they say ancient astronaut theories suggest take that as like that is their way of making it sound so stupid that you won't even believe it but dude it's on the history channel all the shit they're talking about is real they're showing you real evidence but they also have this like funny little attitude about it where they like say it's so funny because now that i want now when i watch the show i almost think like it's almost like they say this line every time before something true it's like ancient astronaut alien astronaut theorists suggest that the pyramids could not have possibly been built like blah blah blah but anyway when you look into it like

the moral of the story is and you can say this in the alien song look into who built the egyptian pyramids and how they were built and and the records behind them all right wait i don't know anything about that yeah i mean, just look into it. Like, you have to do the research yourself. But there's all these things about the pyramids that just don't line up, right? And there's also, like, all these connections where it's just, like, all these different pyramids and archaeological structures are built along magnetic lines of the earth, right?

What do you mean magnetic lines of the earth right like what do you mean magnetic lines of the earth like like like literally i don't know enough to go on it but if you if you look if you look at like the the earth right there's certain magnetic points of the earth that are very strong and so all of these ancient structures have been built along certain bands of the earth that are related to the earth's energy so like, like, the Earth has a certain magnetic field around it, right? Caused by its nickel core or whatever, which is a big part of what sustains all of the life on Earth. And so, there's a lot of energy involved in that and the planet's energy. And so, anyway, long story short it seems very unlikely that normal humans you know as we expect them like using some kind of contraptions with pulleys and ropes and could have built

the pyramids i mean it just seems very unlikely and you know i would say that combined with all the other evidence that i have seen it seems very likely that some kind of advanced civilization was involved in building those structures. All right, let's do it. All right. Full tinfoil hat. Here we go. Let's go down. Let's go down the hole right now.

I can't. You know, I'm not the one. I'm not the one to go that deep down the rabbit hole because, look, at the end of the day, like, I don't want to sit here and just say, well, there's this thing. Like, I don't want to sit here and try to just say stuff that I'm, like, pulling my head that I don't know because like the reason that oh no I I know I know you research this that's not what I'm saying no no I know I know but at the end of the day like what I'm trying to say is that like I don't have the depth of knowledge to sit here and give you like the facts like oh there was this inscription on this part of the pyramid that suggested this thing and there were these inscriptions on another pyramid that suggested that the timing couldn't have possibly,

or this part about the Aztec pyramids is related to the pyramids in Giza. And how could they have, so there's all these little things. And, you know, on one side of the story, like, look, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to sit here and be a complete quack. Like, I could be totally wrong. This could be a big fantasy and there could be no truth to it. but i would say if you seriously look at the evidence that's out there and i think i'm you know it's so normie but ancient aliens just does that tv show on history channel does a great job of presenting it and if you just look at it as like hey maybe this is true

instead of like oh this is some funny thing with a bunch of quack scientists none of it could be true like you'll your perspective will change that's all I can say I think God there's so many directions to go with this aliens being interested in us I I did hear Neil deGrasse Tyson was just on with Joe Rogan yeah and I'm not even going to repeat it because I don't remember it, but it was like the greatest argument. One of the best arguments I've ever heard on the spot where Neil deGrasse Tyson was saying like, you know, I don't think we're that interesting. And Joe Rogan's like, I hate this fucking argument. And he went through, he ripped off like 15 reasons right away,

like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, about all these reasons why we're interesting. And I agree with him. I think it's a wild concept. But, like, I do wonder sometimes about the incognito nature of it. Like, if they were here 5,000, 6,000 years ago with the pyramids, whatever it was, why wouldn't at this point we have seen their face? And then the other side of me says maybe they wouldn't

show their face and then the third side of me says time is a weird concept so we value time as like oh you live a hundred years it's a long time is time in relative to like another planet or another universe you know is a hundred years like a second there i don't know so a couple other things a couple things that i could add to that i would say i don't know which one of these to go first with i'll go first with this one because it's kind of a quicker point which is integral if there was such thing as let's call it an intergalactic federation an alliance of intergalactic aliens who were somehow able to communicate with each other, and they existed in different galaxies and planets, right?

I would say the first requirement to enter the intergalactic federation would be almost entirely peace on your planet. Because why would you bring somebody into an interplanetary organization if they can't even maintain a decent level of peace within their own species on their own home planet? Are you talking about us when you say that? I'm just saying if there was some kind of alliance of aliens in this galaxy, in this universe, why would they ever want to let a species like humans in who cannot even maintain peace within their own race that's okay now i follow so i thought you were saying the opposite for a second the first that yeah no so that that argument that part of the argument would be you know that it's they would be hiding from any species that could possibly endanger them why would you

want to reveal yourself to humans if we are known to kill each other that the first thing we would do is be very combative so hold on though yeah this is important because i could make the same argument about an animal like if oh what's a killer animal all right let's say and they're not all like this, but let's say all lions lived to fucking eat humans all day, right? Like, that's all they did. They went to fucking find a human. Hypothetical world here. We'd be able to beat them because we're technologically advanced.

And so they don't, like, let's say they even wanted to do that. They don't do that because they know, like, all right, stay the fuck away from some of those people. They'll kill us right whereas if you're an alien and we have not proven on earth to our knowledge to be able to get to a fucking far away galaxy and i don't think we have to actually observe other species but in that scenario they are able to get here to observe us what the fuck type of threat do we actually pose to them also what if time is not relevant like in and so i have a good another a good all right do it so this is a good another piece of it which i think you're right which is like yes we probably wouldn't pose any threat to them but what if they

were more here than we realize and what if their goal of our planet, which seems to be the way the universe works, would be they're trying to profit off of our planet or make money off of us or use our work, output of work, to do something for them? can stealthily exist here, use us for the resources they desire without endangering their own species, which may be as deep as a presence here. So I would say in my view of this subject, the existence of aliens is integrally linked with them having a presence as well as a connection here and and so i personally think that they are that if aliens exist and the if aliens if aliens exist they're probably if aliens are interacting with humans they're probably here they're probably using us for our resources somehow and i don't think that any species outside of our planet would want to communicate with us until we can at least maintain peace here. That's what I would think.

I mean, when you're saying all this, though, I think a lot about simulation theory. Yeah, sim theory is a good one, man. I think any thorough conspiracy theorist has uh looked into sim theory so i like i don't even look at it from the conspiracy realm though it is i guess like technically but you know my whole thing is like i've always believed that there's like some kind of higher power or whatever right so i was raised catholic and whatever but like i never got the whole neil stan fucking thing like church like all that so i've always kind of operated like hey there's some spirits around me and whatever and whatever

it is like i'll be great like whenever that happens whenever i'm gone from this earth cool but like i don't really know what it is so i'm not really gonna say but some weird shit happens in this world you know where like things line up and like a small example what i was saying earlier about you know i get past ashton's full record right like his full every song he ever made i listen all of them like invested in this guy never hear about him again then he wants to come on my show and then he comes in here and i hadn't listened to your song since fucking lindsey played it a million fucking times in 2015 now i'm listening to it again he's like yo dill's cool as shit you should talk to him he's into a lot more than music too and i'm like oh my god like there's all these there's all these little things that are happening and then you look at like big things that happen in the world and how like have you ever read the fourth turning no oh dude i

haven't what's that all about i'm gonna send you down the rabbit hole in that one before i'm gonna give a really abbreviated example. This isn't going to do it justice because I'd have to explain it for like 20 minutes. But essentially these guys in 1997, these historians, they did the one thing that historians historically never do, which is the problem with historians is they usually think they're so smart that they can predict the future because they've studied the past but they change it all these guys did is say okay we're not smart we just studied the past the past is gonna repeat itself because that's what it does they figured out that the world has

worked in these 80 to 85 year cycles over time so very quick example when did this stock market crash happen which one the one in 1920 or the one 1929 exactly great question i got you man i'm so on it that's the point on it 80 years later stock market bottoms right you look at revolutionary war yeah happened circa like the middle of it 1780 ish 1781 like in the middle of it civil war 1861 1862 world war ii 42 43 coronavirus 2020 oh you mean world war three yeah exactly so you see these they happen in these cycles and like they people should read that book you definitely got to read but like they break it down into these into these 21 year

generations and how those are how generations really work and you know what it's so funny because now we're at that level where it's like and then at some certain level of knowledge you realize that maybe those astrology motherfuckers are onto something right i wasn't gonna go there but like that's it because it is cyclical and i even said this earlier uh in the interview like i think you even called it out which was like it's like everybody goes this way and then they go that way with any issue it's like it's like even like with some of my friends i talked about this like right now the whole world is so racist like right now everybody is thinking about race and this is like race this race that

like you're black you're white like it was not the same 10 15 years ago like there was a period of time when people were less focused on race you know how that started and how did that start what's that i don't know how that started tell me tell me i'll tell you the moment it started got taken out of context but the moment it started was obama what actually fair very fair i mean but the moment the big red button got hit was he goes he gets up there we have these people coming from other countries they're rapists murderers some of them i assume are good people but that's what like that's my thing like people then suddenly because the news repeated that line over and over and over again now they're like oh my god it's this huge thing i agree that that that's almost like the peak

that's almost like the the top of going into it though like i see that as like the end of a giant build-up like the fact that trump got to where he was was like a symptom of like what was already going on which is i agree with that just like just like such a polarization of america and such a focus on race and like you know i mean i talked to one of my best friends who's black and like i do think it's good to get perspective from someone else who's black like and so i talked to him and like he sees what i see too which is like in so many ways things are less racist like 10 15 years ago when not everything was focused on race now i'm not sitting here trying to say that like change isn't good or whatever like that a lot of things are changing for the good because we're more focused on race and we're more aware of that and people are more aware of their biases but

on some level the way to help solve racism is to like think less about race where it's just like yo people are people and i do believe that and i know that's going to be something controversial that people can disagree with all day and that's. I'm all about open conversation on this topic. But I know one thing. That's my truth, which is that if people are constantly so focused on race, it does not take them farther, like just to a world where things are more equal. So I just see so much tension building up. And that's what I don't like personally. I think when it becomes a definition, it's a huge problem yeah my buddy josh was just on this podcast a

couple weeks ago and he was talking about how look at it as he's a black guy right so he's like look at it as a factor and i was when i heard that i was like oh okay because then he explained it he explained it better and i could remember right now but he was like instead oh, okay. Because then he explained it. He explained it better than I can remember right now. But he was like, instead of just like defining like, oh, this is a black guy. This is a white guy. This is an Asian guy, whatever. Look at it as a factor. And like my whole thing was when I was growing up, I think my mom taught me unbelievably well on this. She was like, when I was like little, like four, she's like, everyone who's a human being is a human being.

So I didn't see race. And I always tell the story my one of my best friends when i was in kindergarten my mom was asking me about who it was like when i was in the car with her after school one day and i'm like oh he's like really tan like really really tan and my mom's up there like trying to hold her in her laughter like i get it you know what i mean so and that's how i saw it and then at some point along the way it started becoming like oh i recognize this is an asian person this is a black person this is a whatever fucking person you know and i don't think the the other side of the extreme is good i think when people are looking

at it like okay we can solve some things that have existed for too long and like fix those and let's actually focus on that for the positive and recognize that we've also come a long way. That's where I want to look at it, where you're honest about it versus the first thing you see in me is you see my race. I think that that is bullshit. That is bullshit. And honestly, we've devolved to this point where the average person thinks it's offensive to be like, oh, that person is blackian that person is indian like there's nothing offensive about that and i stay true to that like i have no like problem telling a black person like they're black like it's not offensive to say that and we have devolved

to this point where people are so afraid to talk about race because they think it makes them look racist and it's just like i get it i fucking get it it's hard to be this confident man it's hard to be dude it's a but but it's a weapon it is but it's like when it's like i know my shit i'm not fucking racist i can call a black person black because they're black it's not racist but like we live in this world where it's such a touchy subject that people are afraid to do that now i'm not going around being calling everybody by their race of course not my point is that that is a sign that something's not right where you can't look at someone and just say what they are or what they appear to be without offending them like it's not offensive that you look a certain way and it's like here's another thing like um

like i've heard uh this story recently about how like someone was wearing like like some indian garb i don't know what to call it i don't know the proper name i'm sorry but someone was wearing like some indian looking type of garb and it was like an indian woman and i was just hearing this story about how the person was afraid to even like compliment the outfit because it's like because like and then it's like a follow-up thing being like oh like are you indian like oh you're wearing like this like are you indian like tell me something about your culture and it's like we've we've really like just confused people so much where it's like hey you should be able to look at someone who's wearing like an interesting indian outfit like

and just be like hey you know i like your outfit is that like are you indian is that something about your culture like if that person doesn't want to talk to you they can tell you to fuck off and that's like whatever they're having a bad day but it's not racist no it's not fucking racist you know what you're actually a really interesting person to ask this this question or give this idea i'm not sure how i'm going to state it but you know we see this term now all the time of like cultural appropriation yeah which to me is just a bunch of like phds who can't make any money off their phds throwing it behind a blue check mark because they have like five fucking links on google that allow them to get verified and then say like this is an important thing because

it's actually reverse race whatever the fuck they say i don't even know what the fuck they say but they say these things and like so if who was the guy the maroon five guy like got like corn rose like a year ago or two years ago or something they were giving him shit about it and stuff and like you're a white rapper right and it's culturally accepted now which thank god right it shouldn't be like well it is and it isn't it is and it isn't because there's always first of all overarching always people will see me as a white rapper like that's that's a thing like like i'm a white rapper and that comes with certain connotations where like people think that it's not like a real job etc etc but uh yeah

i mean like a hundred percent like people say oh you're culturally appropriating like because like everything like oh these white boys shouldn't be rapping like like here and it goes deeper too like if you look at the comments on the jordan belfort video, they'll be like, oh, this must be your dad's boat, your dad's money, which is not true at all. The way we made the Jordan Belfort video. Can you talk about it? We were going to touch that at the beginning. Give the full story. The way we made the video is we went down to Miami, and we had to make the whole thing grassroots.

So basically, as the song was blowing up, we were trying to figure out how to make a video. And so we went down to Miami. And so all the stuff you see in that video is actually people who grassroots supported the song and wanted to help us make the video. So, I mean, it's like, look, I'm not complaining at all, but I'm just saying it is what it is. People look at that and just because i'm white they assume that it must be like my dad's money and i didn't like work hard to like get all the stuff or i didn't do it in a way that like a different rapper would have where it's like no that's not true at all like you can't just look at me and assume that i got everything like like different way because i'm white and so

that's where it gets to the level where it's like yeah it is kind of racist when people do that like it really is like it is racist for people to come say that like you know clearly my dad paid my way in the music industry like that's not true at all i did everything myself my parents don't know shit about music they they're successful and they could have supported me but they didn't parents do so my dad is an insurance broker and my mom is a corporate attorney and so you know they're buying a book man they're very successful don't get me wrong but they didn't help me with my music career like everything i did i got for myself just like anyone else would have to so it's i'm not again i don't

want to say i'm complaining because I'm not. I'm just saying it is what it is, that people come and because of the way I look, they say that, you know, things were handed to me in a different way. And so, you know, it's... They say it in the opposite way, too. Right. They assume, like, and I'm talking about white people especially here, they talk like all black people and all Latino people are poor. And it's like, no, that takes away from all the people who are fucking successful. And I'm not blaming people who are poor either. That's absolutely a thing.

Don't get me wrong but like i'm saying when you generalize like that in either direction you make a definition for things without considering what the actual context behind the person or the like the individual themselves or like a group of people is yeah you know what and then there's this different concept that comes down to individuality versus like groupthink okay and it's like you're hitting all yeah yeah yeah so it's like when you talk to any individual person they're gonna be way more reasonable they're gonna be way more like it i think than like what you assume the group is so like first i'll give you a good example of this that's directly related to this topic i had a guy come up to me at a show and he was like yo man like uh i I want I want some advice for you.

Like, I want to ask you something. But like, I don't know. Like, I feel like it's so different. Like, like, I feel like you just kind of like have it a little easier because like, you know, you're you're just like a white guy, like figuring this out. And this guy genuinely did not like mean. And look, this is where it comes in. Like, I'm living what I say. I didn't think i didn't sit

there and think he was racist because that's not what he was trying to say i could have sat there and thought oh this guy's so racist like i could have sat there and been like oh dude you think just because i'm white i got like yo but no that's not what i did because that's not what he fucking meant like all he needed was to see my perspective and all i said to him was like yeah i mean like no that's not really how it works man like actually when you're a white rapper like people think of you as like this white rapper and versus like when you're a black rapper like you get a more grassroots support where like your homies and people around you are way more like oh yeah like you're like a black

rapper like you've got like like you're you could be a rapper right where as me as a white rapper like all of my peers and people around me like like, didn't really want to support me. Like, I didn't have, like, that, like, oh, my hometown knows I rap as much. It just wasn't the same because of the community around it, right? So, like, people do, people will assume that. And then when I said this to him, he immediately got it, too. Because he was living that truth he was living that truth of like all the people around him and like that he was with like thought it was like really cool and normal to like be a rapper whereas like all the people

i was around and with like are thinking like yo dylan is crazy for thinking he can be a rapper so like and i get it it's the same on both sides but that's just kind of an example of just like you know people do do assume these things about like whatever cultural appropriation being a white rapper um but on an individual level i think people are reasonable and like see things how they are but then when you get to that level of like what the group thinks everybody gets all scared oh i better not say that you just pointed out something really important though and it's come up on a few podcasts but it should come up more because i i think it's something we don't talk about enough you just talked about intent you knew you did not make the assumption that that guy who came up to you was being a fucking generalistic racist asshole

you're on a good one you made the assumption that like okay he made an assumption there he didn't mean anything by it his intent was yes good his intent was to get advice from me he admired me he was not trying to say something racist exactly that's the thing man it's like yo if you are the type of person who is always thinking that someone's saying something racist to you, okay? Yep. It actually comes back to, like, your negative mindset. And it's like, you're, it's almost like you have such a negative mindset that you're putting a negative intent onto everyone else. And I think this is so, so widespread.

And this is like, man, we're just getting on the real shit where this is getting into, the mental health state of america and people's because it's like let's go there people with okay so when you have widespread depression and mental health problems okay these are people who they they have social anxieties you know and look i have these things too i mean i i sometimes i lack confidence too like we all do sometimes But when you have this kind of widespread depression, widespread social anxiety, it results in a lot more of this attitude of like, oh, someone's out to get me. Like people are thinking like that. And so then let's take that one step further. If you're constantly thinking someone's out to get you and someone comes up and says something that, you know, is moderately racist and your response is immediately like oh that was racist stop like you are part of the problem i think because it's like when you're

talking to someone communicating with someone you have to think about their intent just like you said what was their intent as an individual not like what is this pre-programmed group think way of thinking that i've been taught to like react emotionally and instead just take it to the level like, yo, this is just a human who's trying to connect to me and maybe they're actually not that bad of a person. I mean, it comes down to this. Are you an optimist where you assume that every person is probably good and they don't really mean you any harm? Or are you a pessimist where you're assuming that pretty much everyone you interact with is bad and out to get you that is going to shape the way you react to things and the way your whole world is

built it is god you put that so fucking brilliantly thank you man thank you i'm trying man no no like that and i'm glad you gave it the full context too because I think about this a lot, but I wonder how well I do expressing it. And like the one thing I'll say, I think we have expressed pretty well on this podcast and I'll say a lot of guests have expressed it really well. And then I've, I've drafted off them is the group think concept because the internet is this instantaneous equalizer. And I don't mean that in always a good way where it's where it's a downside is when people start to think about it from the sense that like hey what goes goes my my friend moose was on this podcast toby mustafa and he put it beautifully

he was like he introduced the topic by saying like yo all men are trash i was like what what like you just said it out of nowhere and he's like that. He's fired. We're going there. You gotta listen to that episode. He's fucking fired. That's exactly what I said. I'm like, alright, wait. He's like, no, no. That's what people say.

I'm like, on Twitter and stuff, he's like, yes. They say that because that's gonna get them instantaneous points. Like, oh yeah, he speaks for so many of us He understands the problem of masculine fucking dominance in society or whatever And it's like then you just you're incentivized to put it out for that in what you talk about earlier instant gratification Yeah, you're incentivized to put it out there for those likes and retweets and whatever or for whatever the fuck it is on Whatever platform it is and it becomes the rule because then other people are incentivized to put similar ideas out there so they get the

same result and then over time as people start to read between the lines and see so many people with numbers like math saying this shit oh that must be the law and yet the reality is we've created these wars whether it's race or gender which is is a big one, which I obviously, he was touching on with the all men is trash thing. It's like, we've trained people to hate each other. And like, I, you know, maybe I just don't give enough of a fuck and that's going to be a problem. I don't know. We'll see how this works out. I'm a nobody trying to make it like, whatever I talk about, whatever the fuck I talk about on here. But like, even when I put out like a 30 second TikTok, right? Like one of mine that did pretty well was talking about women in society and i you know the interesting thing is when you have three hour conversations like this and you go to

make a 30 second clip you got to edit stuff out yeah right you want to talk about a little bit yeah right you want to talk about like no context right so i knew i tried to edit around it to not do it but i knew in this one because of the way i generalized in the point i was making i knew that the people who were going to be negative the women who were going to be negative on this were going to be the ones coming at it where i said you know all these women competing for the attention of men i know that not all women compete for the attention of men or like women who do there's other factors to it i know that but like people took that out of context and they're like oh so you think that's all what we're doing and i'm like and by the way for the record i'd say it was about 80 of women fucking loved me

for that video which thank you that was awesome but like 20 when they were hating on me they were coming at me for that yeah we love that we love that paradeto principle but like the 20 who weren't they were attacking me on that and it's like I know that's not the rule but listen to what I'm saying the message of my video was and maybe I'll repeat it word for word I don't remember exactly what it was but I was like yo I can't imagine being a girl today and going through my TikTok feed and seeing all I mean you know how fucking great they look on tiktok i mean look i go through i'm not gonna lie my tiktok feed like full hypocrite alert here my tiktok feed is like all women because like they're fucking great and sometimes i comment something funny you know whatever but like you see this and you're like oh if you're a girl you're

like this is exactly what i should look like and i know not all girls have their for you page that looks like that but the ones who do they're like holy shit right I and they think about all the imperfections in them and I'm like I can't imagine doing that and then like having to comprehend that like oh I must need to look like that to get attention or to be beautiful or whatever and like my whole thing is I don't think the answer is the opposite which which is, yo, let's put obese women on the front of magazines and say, that's what we want. No, we don't. That's fucking, like, it's nothing against those women, but that's not healthy, right? But, like, it's also, should we want it to be like, oh, you have to fucking twerk or, like, rub your fucking tits into the camera to get attention?

No, you don't. I don't know what the answer to that is. And so when people were coming back at me, they were just picking apart that one line, like competing for the attention of men. I'm like, you're not listening to my message here. My message is there's an overall problem we have. I'm not saying exactly what it is. I'm saying this is a trend that I see.

I'm empathizing with someone else that maybe they think like this. Maybe I don't. Maybe they don't. I'm just introducing the idea. And you guys are making assumptions about what I believe that's bullshit yeah no that really gets back to it yeah it's just really people are gonna think what they think people are gonna say what they say nobody is perfect that's the other thing too like you you can you can say what you want, but, like, everybody slips up sometimes. And so when you just try to generalize what someone thinks based off one thing they say, it just takes it too far.

And we see so much of that today. Or it's like people pick out one thing, and then they just take this negative perspective on it. But I think that we've gotten to the root of the problem which is like it comes down to someone's outlook which is like it's the way they respond to something yes because because there is such a different because like i'm trying to think of like off the top just like a phrase where it's like if you said if you said something to someone there's a lot of things you can say to someone if they want to take it in a negative light they can but if they just don't assume that you're coming at it so negatively then it won't be so bad i mean that's just how it is right like at the end of the day yo i'll i'll say it too i think that one person who like was a

victim of this time and time again donald trump a lot of the stuff he says is very direct, and he's just a direct speaker who it's very easy to take a couple clips of him and throw it on the news and say he's racist. Because he's not afraid to say things like I was saying before, where it's like he says something about blacks or he says something. And look, I'm not saying the guy is is politically correct or anything like that i'm not sitting here defending the guy all i'm saying is because of how directly he speaks it's very easy for somebody to look at a couple clips of him and then assume the worst

and you know maybe they're not wrong to assume the worst the guy has a history of doing some bad stuff so there's that. But my point in the matter is, you know, at the end of the day, I just want to see people be more positive. Yes. And be more understanding of another person rather than just like trying to think another person is racist. And that's the place I'll push back on him, actually. I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, and I have to say this when we bring these things up because I always like to be very transparent for people who haven't listened before but I often say I've been politically very interesting in my life I was a big Obama guy in 2012 I was a huge Trump guy in 2016 I voted for neither of them in 2020 right and I'm very and I don't I kind of regret this because it's not a positive way to look at things on that lane on that vein right there you just struck but i'm very cynical about politics and i see the downside of it and maybe it's like some people i've had a chance to talk to who are in it and

they bias my opinion i don't know but like with trump but do they bias your opinion or is that just really how it is that's just that's a great question that's just how it is that's a great question anyway no no no that's actually no no no that's that's a fair i gotta think about that because i think it could be a combination of both i do like i want to be open to that but like with trump my whole thing is he was told by fucking everyone forget the general public he was told by people around him hey that thing right there you're not a fucking businessman anymore regardless of what you did there you can't say that as fucking president or a candidate for president and then he still said it over and over again and like then i look at some dog whistle stuff where it's like wasn't was his intention racist maybe wasn't it maybe but like you can't get around that he did it like he sent out the tweet i cite this one all the time where

it's like he was like if you're a suburban woman you know you're gonna vote for me because the obama biden clinton put all the fucking names on obama biden clinton rule says that all these section housings are gonna move into your neighborhood and you're not going to have a neighborhood anymore what's that implying you know like could i see could i see it that he's just like someone said hey that plays well with suburban women oh we gotta win suburban women let's hit him could i see him doing that 100 but could i also see when people come to me and go yo that sounds like kind of racist could i see them having a good argument yes i can yeah and like with him that was always the problem because it's like he created i mean i disagree with a lot

of policy points too but like i think they went way too far with him but he also create he dug holes for himself that it's like yo you did not need to dig this hole you know what i mean definitely and so i got to a point where you know the thing for me that really hit it where i was like oh i don't know about this was like the roy moore thing at the end of 2017 i was like that's fucked up right and then i took a long time and then by mid 2019 i'm like yo i i don't think the democratic party's in a place where they're liberal right now so i can't get behind that i don't know what the fuck they are but like i can't vote for this guy period like it just doesn't make sense and it wasn't like oh society's telling me not to it was like like like how many times are you going to make the

same mistake over and over again and maybe like yeah it's just like he doesn't listen. And that's kind of what makes him who he is. But also, it's like, yeah, I mean, at some point, it's like it would be nice if he was more under control in a sense. And it's like that's kind of what made him successful is just being this kind of crazy character who says whatever the fuck he wants. And that worked for him to some extent correct but yeah i think i think a lot of people feel like you and whether it's because of his questionable questionable behavior or whether it's because of societal pressure it doesn't matter it doesn't matter which one of those it's because of it's the end game is that people didn't vote for trump because of of his behavior um pretty much but i mean i mean yeah but like i i do think it's crazy

this the the amount of you know societal pressure there is with politics and the amount that it has just taken over the the psyche of america in so many ways i mean and it comes it's just like you know it comes in cycles right like it's gonna come back in the next election and there's gonna be some new issue that's the biggest hottest new issue so yeah whatever if you don't mind i i actually i want to totally take a left turn right now all right because i you know before we end this or anything i'd love to get some thoughts on some things so when i do these podcasts people ask me all the time they're like yo how much do you prepare for this i'm like dude not at all like i go the opposite way like i will go out of my like ashton as an example i went out of my way not to listen

to his music or fucking re-watched a rap battle or anything that i already knew before he came in here because i like it to just be very natural yeah but there was one thing where the curiosity got to me a little bit because i'd never seen it okay and so i i watched it this this past week and that was the the podcast you did with jordan belfort oh dope and it was and it was really good i actually wish it was way longer too because i think by the way like i've seen some of j's stuff, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how solid he is as a conversationalist. But I think that he did an awesome job just letting you guys roll in that. So it was like I wanted a lot more when it was done. Yeah, yeah.

But there was one thing that he didn't press a ton that i wanted to ask you about because it is relatable for many different reasons to a lot of people okay and you were very open about it which i respected and you were talking about like after you blew up you know you were in college and right like all this fucking shit comes on you whatever and you were saying that you went through that phase where you know there were a lot of drugs and shit like that. Yeah, man. And I think about this all the time because I know myself and, like, I got all my flaws. I got all my positives, whatever.

But, like, dude, when I was 18, I was a fucking moron. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, if I blew up for whatever reason, doing whatever the fuck it was when i was 18 i'd be dead at 21 like sorry mom but like that's probably how it would have gone down and so when i look at people like even look at the biggest ones i look at like a justin bieber for example and i see like people give him shit for a lot of things and i'm like dude he blew up when he was like fucking 14 what do you expect like britney spears we heard about that one recently

like i empathize with these people and i know that's not like the popular thing to do but like i get it you know what i mean yeah oh and like i see yours and i and i see like obviously you blew the fuck up you played all these tours and whatever and then like you went through your own demons so i'm curious to know like what brought like if you even know like what brought that on and like what that was like and and more importantly how you came out on and like what that was like and and more importantly how you came out of that yeah well that was something i've been dealing with my whole life you know like in high school my parents were a little more on the strict side uh but that's because i was constantly trying to do shit i was trying to smoke i was trying to drink

i was trying to you know get get around and do whatever i wanted but like that my parents were against smoking and drinking when i was that age because i was too young and shit and so you know i had all kinds of confrontations with them whether it was just like coming home drunk getting in trouble you're grounded like you know them trying to get me to stop smoking weed like they would drug test me they would do all this crazy shit which in hindsight now that i'm an adult it was crazy it was crazy i will never drug test my kids for weed my kids can smoke weed they were fucking crazy but at the same time i love my parents like they were doing their best and you know like i don't blame them like i was a crazy kid like before you

blew up yeah before i blew up it was just like i was always trying all types of shit like and and it's like it's easy to look at me now and say like oh you must have been crazy to deal with growing up and shit and like but like yeah i really was like i really was doing risky shit like whether i was like making weed brownies and bringing them to school and my parents find out halfway through and they're like freaking out because i've got a bunch of weed brownies in my backpack at school like i was doing shit that was like probably a little bit across the line of like what's acceptable for a normal high school student but you also have to remember that like i'm not i'm like a very entrepreneurial like i'm trying to make money so like i was always doing some shit i'm still doing

some shit look what i'm doing right now look what the fuck i'm doing right now i'm still doing some shit but that's like what made me who i am but yeah i mean so like i was always doing you know that's it like i wasn't just like eating a weed brownie and like getting too high and coming home i was like trying to bake them at my house and sell them in school like i was you know i was like um what else like you know i wasn't just like going and having a couple drinks and coming home a little drunk i was like the the you know sophomore who was hanging out with the seniors and like you know i would go get fucked up and like i was younger and my and it was like to my parents they're like oh well you're like you're not even hanging out with like the people that we know of as your friends.

You must be going off the deep end. I like to think of it like this. I have to uncover every stone. So also here's another thing, which is something I'm very passionate about. And I haven't really gotten to voice it fully yet. But I'm starting to really come into my own with this, which just like i was never like a drug addict like addicted to drugs which is the first fucking thing they try to tell you as soon as you have any kind of anything negative happen with drugs i mean you're an addict they tell you right away you're a fuck you're an addict you can't do drugs ever

again and you know anyone anyone it's a fucking business anyone who's been through this knows the deal i mean have you ever met people who like run rehab centers oh god dude i i've been in plenty i i've been involved in this shit look this has been a struggle my whole life but i'm actually at this point now where i can look back and say i'm a fucking adult that shit was crazy i was i i've been in places where i looked around and everyone at one point i said yo everyone here is a fucking wreck they're all addicted to drugs i'm not like these fucking people i am i do not need to be here let me play devil's advocate for one second yeah what if other people in there who like you're looking at that way are thinking the same thing

is it is a part of it like background and hopes that you see like oh they lack both of them or is a part of it like hey legitimately being honest with myself i'm just a kid in college having fucking fun here and like if i wanted to challenge myself tomorrow to not have fucking anything for six months i could i'll tell you the truth on that in my opinion. Not everyone there is thinking that. Like, maybe there are a handful of people there that are not. But, yo, drug addicts are fucking helpless and desperate. That's what they're like. They're helpless and desperate.

They have no confidence. Okay? Like, people who are addicted to drugs, really addicted to drugs, and, like, really having a problem are the people that usually end up in these type of places. And they're desperate and they're helpless. And so, yes, there was certainly some other people there who are just, you know, a doctor who, you know, is drinking too much. And he ended up here because his wife made him. Or he's using the prescription pen a little too much. You know, he's a mechanic who likes to or you know he's a fucking he's a mechanic

who who likes to uh you know do some meth every morning so his wife makes him go there whatever the the situation is there's plenty of people who are in a fine situation that find themselves there but you know my whole life growing up my parents are telling me these things and that i have to do this and that and you know it's taken until now like well into my 20s for me to realize like hold up all of those people were wrong like I'm not addicted to drugs I had like a little bit of a problem where I was making poor decisions and I woke up was your what was your thing I mean were you just it wasn't even like that like I smoke hella weed I'm still smoking weed

right now like I love weed I now now now i work for i work for uh you know i help people get med cars in pennsylvania weed is legal now weed is like fucking alcohol i mean five years ago i mean it's just i get worked up because it just doesn't make any sense a few years ago weed was illegal blah blah blah you're a drug addict and now it's like a doctor gave me a prescription for this weed so now a doctor gave me a prescription so now all of a sudden i'm okay to do this like what the fuck are you talking about shut the fuck up i was doing the same shit is that a quack doctor like yo like is that a quack no no it's legit man i literally help people get med cards in pennsylvania and new jersey i i work

with this company they're called jewish sauce, and we help people get med cards in Pennsylvania and Jersey. And so we've helped hundreds of people get their med cards in PA. But it's just so ridiculous because five, six years ago, people were telling me that I was a drug addict and I could never smoke weed again. And there was no way that this could be a positive thing. And now my mom gets mad when I'm posting smoking a joint. I'm like, yo, mom, I love weed. It helps me weed is good and i want to encourage people to use it like boom there's a fucking bomb

i know i know my my doctor listens to this show and i know dr chris is sitting in his car right now going julian don't get any ideas but sorry doc but anyway i i actually i mean i agree with you a lot of it is narrative, right? So I can look at something that has a ton of evidence and say, you know, I think that people who are using Oxycontin who aren't, didn't just have major surgery or something, that's a fucking problem, you know? Whereas when you look at something like weed, which I'm also, I would never call myself educated on the full context of the history but i at least know the basics and like i have there's a lot of smart people i know who know the whole fucking thing and like you look at it it was all this whole like i mean call it what it is it was like a fucking propaganda campaign i mean you can walk into a bar and get fucked up off tequila and

maybe die right versus oh you can't go smoke weed which you know show me the first guy that didn't just get a little convinced that he had some wings when he had way too many fucking joints you know to fucking fly off a building other than that show me someone who died a weed you know it doesn't it doesn't happen because it's a medicinal substance and yet society is so convinced of that thing and like the irony is that the legal system is what convinces you of it. And yet we all know, sorry to out all you guys here, but like anyone who goes to law school, they can't afford hangovers. So what do they do? They fucking smoke the good green shit and talk about the good word of the law.

But then they're prosecuting it two years later. And it's like we live in this society where these ideas get presented and then like parents they're just messaging what they hear they want like they care about you you know what i mean like they're not doing that from a bad place but they're messaging what they think is true and yet that's what gets passed down generation generation but it doesn't mean it's true but also what you just said is so important too because things do get passed down from generation generation on so many levels i actually – I actually think like the smartest people in the world on so many levels, like I think there's so much family type of knowledge. Like really smart, really rich and powerful people are able to pass down knowledge to their kids that is like so, so, so interesting and valuable and so anyway like on this subject of of addiction and

and just the way that society treats it and how it's affected me personally you know i think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's a business and people are so deeply invested in this system of drug addiction treatment and um and like telling people that they are addicts and i just think that this was invented in the 1950s and people have not given a serious look to the psychological side effects of telling someone that they're an addict and if they do one beer they're gonna die like listen you are pre-programming somebody who might you know what this person came in as a weak tired addict they had no money they didn't now five years later they have a job things are going well like they have a good mindset but you've been brainwashing them telling them that if they have one fucking beer

they're gonna die and go and off the deep end and have a bender now what if you just told that same fucking person hey you've been clean for five years like you really can't have like but if you do have a beer like it is possible to like have one and i'm not saying this is true for everyone i'm not i'm not trying to say this is true for everyone i do believe there are real addicts who can never do their drug of choice again, or they will end up dead in a ditch somewhere. I believe that. But that's not true for everyone. I think everyone needs to find their own truth. And I believe on a very deep, widespread level, they are programming people to think they could never ever do a drug or have a drink again,

who then, once they do accidentally do a drug or have a drink in a weak moment are pre-programmed to go on a bender and ruin their whole life in a very quick instant motion because that's what they've been told and i don't think it's healthy and this is like this is almost like my hill to die on about this whole thing because it just is like it just is like i believe in this so strongly and i've just been just fucking but I just feel like beating around the bush so many times, like people telling me this and that until I finally arrived at my own truth, which is like I'm not an addict. I can use – drink a little bit, smoke a little bit here and there.

I've done some drugs which are bad, and I had some problems with. But even those drugs, I could do one right now, and it wouldn't fucking kill me. It wouldn't send me off the deep end. I'm in a good good mindset i'm a strong person like you don't think you'd be addicted to them no it's just i'm not a drug addict like okay let me let me let me let me push back on that yeah yeah what if every drug addict said that though because by the way what you just said and i want you to answer this question i don't want to get into this i'll get into it later if you want to clarify but what you just said i agree with yeah i think one thing i will say a friend of mine who actually found this podcast because i hadn't talked to him since we were like 13. literally one of the

smartest people i've ever known in my life he told me his whole story yeah since then and he actually got heavily addicted to heroin okay like out of nowhere and he's been off it for years and he said the hardest battle is like he's like i failed like 12 times trying to get off it and then once like you actually kick it like not like three weeks like you actually fucking six months out like whoa okay whatever then you can actually get over it and very few people make it there but he talked about that system a lot that tells you like you have a problem you can't do anything yo no like it's a weakness you're having that coffee have you thought about that coffee you know what i mean like all these little things and he got to a point like he was so over paranoid about it that he used

that system and accepted that system for a few years after he was off heroin and then one day he had a revelation where he's like he was saying to himself, let's call him Bob. His name's not Bob. But he was like, Bob, are you going to do heroin again? And he was like, no, that's literally the fucking devil. He gets a shiver up his spine even thinking about it. He's like, so why are you sitting in there with this jerk off who you're talking about all your career aspirations and and he's telling you

like hey you got to watch that because you were a problem he's like that never went back again it's been years yeah it doesn't have a problem i mean dude it's just it it's toxic in a lot of ways and it's like there are addicts i think think you made a good point. There are people. I think what you kind of said before was what if all addicts thought like me? A lot of them would end up dead. So it is true that a blanket way to teach everyone that works for everyone is never do drugs again. But we don't need – it's very fine-tuned details. We don't need to tell those people also that if they do drugs again they're fucked that's what it is like i just don't think we need to go that far with it but you

shouldn't encourage that you shouldn't encourage them to do drugs again but you don't need to take it to that but it's almost like such an interesting time hey how do you get people to stay in your cult okay that's how do you get people to stay money making fucking cult where i don't i'm glad you said that yo and then and then when you get to a place that's like uh you know like the treatment clinic versus like a alcohol anonymous place then it gets fucking weird because those places is like almost like what's a treatment climate like if you like like there's like inpatient outpatient places so like rehab yeah yeah so i've seen like different versions of them right and like i just think at on some level there's some of them where like they've got a lot of people who are in there because it's like

they're off the street like to them they'd almost rather be in there because if they're not in there they're literally doing heroin on the street and so like they are really really struggling and like they are really almost like they they want to do drugs but they want to get off drugs like or they're like addicted to drugs but they're like happy to be in there because it's the only way they won't isn't that the purpose yeah that is real But this is what I'm getting to. But there's like this whole thing that goes on where I think that there's like certain people who are in there without insurance and there's people who are in there with insurance, okay?

And there, in my opinion, is like some level of like collusion or like something that goes on. It's a business, look. And at the end of the day, Iusion or, like, something that goes on. It's a business, look. And at the end of the day, I think that on some level, they try to keep people there who have insurance. Makes money. Right? They keep people there who have insurance.

So let's say you're there and you wanna, like, leave because you're good, like, unless you're, like, fighting really hard, they'll keep you there if you have insurance because it helps fund the people who don't have insurance. And it's, like, so fucked up where I just think that, like, fighting really hard, they'll keep you there if you have insurance because it helps fund the people who don't have insurance. And it's, like, so fucked up where I just think that, like, on so many levels, it is, like, a brainwashing system that keeps people in it. And it's just, like, a lot. It's so hard for people to escape from these systems of addiction and shit and that's kind of like what i was saying before it's like the people that are the average person in in treatment for drugs or struggling with drugs is truly like desperate

helpless low confidence like that's my opinion and everyone can improve i'm not saying that's what they are permanently i'm just saying when someone is in treatment for you know drugs and and alcohol they're very low confidence they're they're very self-conscious they're very low confidence. They're very self-conscious. They're very desperate. They're very helpless. And so, but that's not everyone in there. There's always going to be people that aren't like that, that find themselves in that situation. So I guess what I'm saying is if you're someone who is finding yourself like having some issues with drugs and alcohol, you really need to like self-evaluate and say like is this just you know a mistake that i made that's due to you know bad decisions about behavior or am i addicted to a

drug which is controlling my life like hard questions you said something about you said something about heroin right like yeah like yo i used to like take a xanax and be blacked out that sounds like the worst fucking idea to me ever right now i don't want to do that anymore right so it's kind of like you're saying about that guy with heroin where it's like that's something like like in college i would like take some xanax and drink so i would be blacked out and it's like now i don't want to be blacked out would you wait so let me ask you this though yeah let's say that like right now you said all all right, I'm going to take a Xanax. Would you be worried about wanting to take it again?

I'd be worried about going home so I could go to sleep because I would be so tired. No, and the answer to the question is no. I wouldn't be worried about taking it again because— Could you want—let me—sorry to cut you you off but could you understand if people look back and you say come on come on to what to that answer like come on yeah it's easy to say it but harder to practice no it is it is um i agree with that and like you know i'm not trying to say i'm fucking superman over here but what i am trying to say is that my mindset has shifted from where it was when i was originally doing that to a place where like i'm way more like comfortable in myself to where it's like

i don't even want to go out and get fucked up and drink like i used to like i felt like even that was like part of this symptom of like trying to like go out all the time with everyone and be like really loose and fucked up which is like something that is very popular like to be fucked up and out with people is like the natural like common popular thing and like that's you know toxic in and of itself but that's a whole conversation right there right but uh it is like considered like cool and normal to be like out and fucked up with people so i would just like everything i do i would you know do that the best i could so you know then i'm fucking taking a quarter bar and drinking and then i'm and i'm good and fucked up and all you were part of that culture like that's that's the funny thing though like

you're thinking like that now and like when people talk about your your main song jordan belfort like bro i was never listening to that song when i wasn't fucking drinking something with a few other people you know what i mean like it's it's a it's it's a funny circle of life and it like it's a healthy i'm gonna say this very wrong and look back on it and be like what the fuck did i just say but it's like a healthy circle of hypocrisy because out of one side of our mouths and i'll speak for myself as well with you out of one side of our mouths we can say like yo we don't have to do that like that's a weird thing to think of and then on the other side we can fucking play a song jordan belfort and be like let's get fucked up tonight and be able to have a

good time and not worry about like yo this is gonna be a cycle where we do this seven days a week right and that's where we can kind of go back to people look at me and they think that i must be like like jordan belfort from the movie where it's like i'm getting fucked up every day of the week trying to fuck everyone's wife and trying to take 10 clay twaludes or whatever right so you get to the car right you get to the car on on our ludes it's a wild it's a wild game it's a wild it's a wild game so you get to the car and then suddenly you think you can drive but you can't drive you can't drive and then suddenly you get out of the you get out of the driveway and there's like six fucking cops out there and and and now

now you're arrested but you get out of it because you're a rich guy that's why it pays to be able to sell dude and what it comes down to is i can rap about partying and rap about turning up and having a good time because i've done plenty of that but that doesn't mean i have to do that every day and live this completely toxic lifestyle just because and even on a deeper level it's like i rap about like fucking all these bitches and like even probably some of my music is talking about like cheating and inf's like i rap about like fucking all these bitches and like even probably some of my music is talking about like cheating and infidelity like i don't cheat on my girlfriends i'm not gonna cheat on my wife like none of that shit like rapping about that doesn't make me fake rapping about that does not make me fake that's so why do you rap about it because it's it's talking

about experiences it's giving people emotion right so? So it's like, I rap about different things that I'm trying to paint a vision and paint a picture, right? So it's like, as an artist, like let's take someone who's a visual artist, right? I mean, you have different styles of artists, but it's all about the artist's interpretation of what they see, right? So like when I make music, it's about a vibe.

It's about a feeling, right? Like I can rap about, I just popped a molly and I think this be my third. I don't think I ever popped three mollies. That's a lot of mollies, man. A lot of mollies. That's a lot of mollies. I mean, maybe two. But the point of the matter is, you got all these rappers rapping about this and this and that.

And it's just like, you know rap it is about like staying true to yourself like i think i i like to think that i am very true to myself in my rap like you know even jordan belford that song is just like me and my homie we're just rapping about jordan belford like my album is about crypto that i do but i'm not gonna be a boring ass like lame in that and only rap about like you know i i sit in my house most days of the week am i just gonna rap about sit in the house no you gotta make a story so just like any artistic work it's all about making a vision i think and so you know i think it's about like drawing the line between like look if i'm rapping about like catching bodies and shooting people in

the street that's pretty far away from you know what my lifestyle is like i'm not gonna rap about that stuff yeah but at the same time if you're not like an exaggerated caricature of yourself in your music i think that like then you're you're not doing yourself full artistic justice like you have to be this extreme like vibrant version of yourself there's an ability as an artist to paint the exaggeration right so even use a basic example someone who's like a visual artist so like a picasso yeah when picasso i mean he was brilliant but when he painted was he painting what a real human looked like no he was painting this molly version of what a human could look like right Right. Right.

And yet it was this art because it was this descriptive, like subconscious nature of it. And so when I look at you talking about lyrics or I hear about, I should say you talking about lyrics and being able to rap about topics that maybe don't represent you or whatever, it's still, in my opinion, based on what you're saying, you're looking at it like it's coming from a place where these are things that other people experience or other people think about. And maybe it's not great, but I'll leave the listener to judge what's great and what's not. We're going to create a vibe based on what you see when you go out and you experience all different types of people. Yeah, you put that perfectly, man. I mean, that's really what it's all about, is it's just like creating creating a vision that's

that's interesting and exciting and then people can interpret it however they want and that's what i also like that's why i said like i'm not complaining like i don't blame anyone for thinking what they think about me due to my jordan belfort song i'm not gonna sit here and say that you know after listening to jordan belfort you should think that i'm some kind of angel who's you know just some good boy like whatever like i get it and don't get me wrong i especially right especially when we made that song and right when it came out i was living it up i was trying to do whatever i could i was having a good time i was partying like jordan belford um but you know it's just it's just also about like realizing that everybody is a person on some level right like everybody's a person on some level and um so you know at that i think people

don't even like just don't even think through that like even with my my uh girlfriend it's just like seeing her kind of go through the stages of like of like even months into the thing she's just like realizing something that just makes me like more human where it's like oh you didn't realize that kind of go through the stages of like of like even months into the thing she's just like realizing something that just makes me like more human where it's like oh you didn't realize that i take a shit too i mean i don't know it's just like anything like anything like that but yo what here's the thing what i was just this just made me think of this is kind of crazy but when you mentioned picasso i was just thinking man like you said like it's like a molly version of like how to see the world yeah like back in that time the only way to like see someone else's view of the world was

like through a painting like right now we have like phones everywhere so it's just like oh here's a picture of what happened but like back then it was like like think about this it's like I don't know what you're seeing and you don't know what I'm seeing we don't know if we see the same kind of orange brown here we don't know right but it's like it's like back then it was so much harder to communicate what something looked like because now we can just like take a picture or we have all these different ways to recreate what something looked like so it's a lot more uniform but like back then it was like yo what does this person see the world like what does this person see the world like and so now that's sort of what artists do nowadays but it's so different because you can take pictures like back then it was really like oh like if he's drawing her skin in that color

like i wonder if i'm seeing it differently or like or if he's doing this the brush strokes like this and it looks like way more like or let's take like starry night for example like yeah like like oh that's van gogh is it is it i'm asking i don't know i have either way it makes sense don't worry about if it's i don't know who it is i'm not the art concert but what i can say is that looking at that picture, it's like, looking at that picture, it's like, he probably didn't see this. But, like, did what he see look more like this than what I see in a night sky? And it did. It probably did, right?

If he painted it like that, it probably did. I mean, on some level, he was able to see this version of the night sky instead of the version i was seeing right and that makes you think about the version you are seeing it does it's like you know i'm what i'm seeing looks kind of like this but you know it's just crazy to think about how how much how much things have changed now though that now anyone can take a picture of something and it's a lot more verifiable like you can say like oh it it looked like this like here's a picture this is what it looked like whereas with this it's like purely an artist's interpretation so i i thought that was cool to just think about that how how things would have changed since then you are such

a interesting guy hey man you too this this has been great this is the longest podcast i've ever done that's far i i mean i'm not looking at the clock but that's that's the idea because we want to get lost in it and not know that like you know we've been going for a while but no it's good you know i i have the biological clock that we're close to three hours here so i do want to wrap up soon but you know first of all there's a lot we didn't get to today that i'd love to continue to ask you about and whatever and i'm sure we'll talk about it off camera and then you know eventually do it on camera again but you know looking at how you view the world

i talked about earlier that whole creative and businessman vibe where you have it mixed into one which is so important but you know you're talking about perspective of things and how other people see it and then that's like oh now i can see it that way and like i go back to your song that really blew up that everyone knows you as and they don't know the other songs most people right yeah you know nobody does right nobody right it's such a you know you have such a unique path in the sense that there's one that just set a bar that was insane and yet i kind of expected somebody here because i obviously i didn't know you before this somebody who would be more like just totally vibing off that song and kind of like almost

what's the word i'm looking for here frustrated that people couldn't see that like all the other songs you made after it or everything you've done after it is at the same level but what i've seen instead is somebody who's very very realistic about what your path has been and all the steps of it including like some of the things where people fucked you over not getting like too like yo fuck all them it's like yo also we had to learn shit and yet you still have that same creative furor like you have that mindset of like yeah i just i'm gonna create some fucking culture shit like we're gonna do some cool shit here i don't know what's gonna happen but fuck it like i'm involved in some cool shit we're gonna go and like it's a beautiful thing because i think a lot of people who had fallen quote-unquote victim to like on anything music art paintings whatever it is of like one

hit wonder they get pissed off at the world for a long time afterwards and what it does is it it prevents them from doing something epic afterwards because they can't ever put themselves in that mindset you don't fall into that though but here's the thing i did though i think that's what i fell into when i went back to school and i was telling people that i wasn't gonna make music again now maybe i dealt with that better than somebody who only had music going for them i mean it was like kind of a blessing that i had school to go back to so i could take that time and refocus on something else which i was like instantly back into something else successful to refocus where then i could quickly figure out hey

i want to switch back to music if that makes sense versus like let's say i didn't have school to go back to and you know i just had nothing to do then it was like there would have been like like it would have taken me longer to just figure out how to readjust i feel like you know like having to switch and then like switch back it's like okay are you doing this shit because like i went this way so it's like if you're coming back this way you better be turning hard right do you realize how that's the opposite that like you know not all the way but like in some ways it's the opposite in the sense that you went back to school and you're like yeah maybe i won't make music anymore you kind of like not that i want you to do that because that's not what you should do but like you went the opposite way in the sense that most people

are like yo i'm gonna create the next fucking 300 million stream song tomorrow because i can yeah yeah and you were like yeah i might be done yeah well you try to do that for a couple years you try to do that for a couple years without success and and then you realize that it's like really hard but then coming back to it, what I realized is that I didn't try for long enough and that if I kept trying forever, I would undoubtedly succeed. And so that's something that I realized

that music industry is just about continuing your vision. If you have good music, you have good music. You have to know that. I can't tell you. I mean, I can tell vision if you have good music you have good music you have to know that i can't tell you i mean i can tell you if you play me your song but i'm not going to listen to your song like that like look i'm being honest right i'm not going to listen to your song unless you're like paying me or something if you're lucky if you're lucky and maybe i'll click your damn link and guess what that that you just need to send that link to everyone but the point of it is if you good music, you have to know that more than anyone else. It doesn't matter if I think it's good.

You have to know before you send it to me that it's good. Because that's what's going to carry you through to success. Not just me thinking one song is good. Or any artist. If Jay-Z thinks your song is good, but he's not going to help you, it doesn't really do you any good at all. I mean, so all it does is maybe then what? Inspire you to have the confidence that the song is good so then you can go chase your dreams? Like what?

You should have just known that from the beginning and just said, my song is fucking good. I don't give a motherfucker if Jay-Z thinks it's good or hears it. And that's hard to do. You got to be honest about that conversation, though. Yeah. And you know this as a creative. Yeah. You have to be brutally like separate yourself from the world, what anyone else thinks, good and bad, and be like on the level.

Whatever the fuck you just created, I don't know what it is, but like is this good? And like there are a lot of people who can't – they think everything they created like, yo, this is amazing. And it's like you have to err on the other side and kind of be like, all right, assume this sucks. Why doesn't it suck? Yeah. And then if you can – and that's the thing. Like it's not like just tooting your own horn. It's like if you can get past legitimately those questions and those doubts and get to a point where you have evidence in your head that you know is real evidence that like yo this is good yeah you have to have the confidence to be like yo it

we're gonna roll yeah exactly and i mean it's tough because you do get people who aren't necessarily cut out for it maybe they're gonna think everything is good like they don't have that level of perfectionism and so that can be like a reason that you wouldn't be cut out for it but you know i mean also not just to touch back on this like i think what's been so amazing through this whole thing is my relationship with wes like me and wes are like best friends since like middle school and like there's so many situations where people get torn apart from some situation like this or just from being in business together and then like going out of business together or whatever like me and west toured together did 40 50 plus shows then we like barely talked for a year or two not out of something

negative just because like yo i was with him every fucking day and then you were in new orleans and then i was in new orleans and it was just like we we would just talk every couple weeks it was like yo what's good but it's just like it's just like that's life bro that's life sometimes you have those friends where it's just like if i don't talk to you for a month it's just because we're both busy i could call you up and ask you for anything right now that's the beautiful thing but just like through the whole process like there was never any arguments about like who made this song or anything like 50 50 on everything like because it was wes's beat wes had made completely made the beat and i had and i had thought of the jordan belford idea and then we wrote the song

together and so you know we were 50 50 on everything like i will always be grateful for wes um that you know he was so on board with that and just like we've maintained our friendship through the whole thing and just like it's always been like our friendship above any dumb ass business shit and so i think like you said like that's kind of what has helped to maintain like not being mad at the world and it's just like yo we're doing our best doing what we could and it's just like if if nothing else we did that we did that multi-platinum record atlantic records we did that and it's done and most people never get there and

i you know now i just i hope to reach even higher goals and i'm working on my shit but it's just like i also just want to be an inspiration in any way i can to people that you know might find themselves in similar situations i mean it's like i'm not the same as as some kid who comes from absolutely nothing and i'm dirt poor and I don't have my parents. I'm not that kid. But I am the kid who never thought I could do something creative and thought I was kind of pinholed into this get a business job, go to college thing. And I've kind of figured out my own way with that. So, you know, it's a different – i know i can be inspirational to someone else out

there and if i can help someone else out to chase their dreams that's all i want to do ultimately you know that's what it's all about till that's well said man that's a great spot to leave it because i like there's like 12 things i'd attack right now and we'd be here for like another three hours so that's good man we'll come back we'll get another one we're gonna do one again 100 i love that by the way though that last point about that friendship through the years even through all this that's a beautiful thing yeah that's that that's that's and and it's real too like you can tell like when you watch you guys on jordan belfort together like you can fucking tell like you guys are boys haven't skipped a beat through it all that's that's an amazing thing it's a testament to both of you i obviously i only know you now but listen man this was awesome i i think i think your career

so far in its early trajectory for so many different reasons is a very interesting example for a lot of people and you have a lot of very great perspectives that you got at a young age too that is awesome and i love giving that a platform so thank you for doing it yeah thanks for having me on man it's been real and we'll do it again soon 100 brother yes sir all right everybody else you know what it is give it a thought get back to me yeah peace Thank you.