Julian Dorey Podcast - 🤣 #70 - From Contending With Ali –– To Cocaine Cowboy: Lou Esa

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

Lou Esa is a former contending Heavyweight Boxer and original Cocaine Cowboy. In a life story Hollywood Studios would never believe, Lou went from training under his good friend Muhammad Ali’s team at 5th Street Gym in Miami, to earning his spot as one of the best Heavyweight Boxers in the world––to becoming one of Miami’s infamous Cocaine Cowboys. ...All in the span of about 2-3 years. This podcast is the behind-the-scenes story of what happened––as told by the man who lived it. ***Note: “Cocaine Cowboys” is a term made famous by Billy Corben’s Eponymous 2006 Documentary and its subsequent sequels (including the 2021 Netflix Miniseries, “Cocaine Cowboys: The Kings of Miami”). Lou Esa was a player in the middle of many of the conspiracies recounted in Corben’s various films on the subject. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Lou’s early career in boxing; a funny highway story; How Lou got signed by Don Shula to the Miami Dolphins; Meeting Muhammad Ali & Getting signed by his trainer Angelo Dundee at 5th Street Gym in Miami; Lou’s friend Chuck Wepner, who “Rocky” was based off of 24:57 - Lou trained by swimming with the alligators; Then Lou trained by swimming with sharks; Lou’s 5 marriages around the world; An insane growth spurt story; the nightclub Lou opened up in Greece 45:49 - How Lou’s career went; Being a star in Miami in the 1970s; The crazy story behind Lou’s first loss 1:03:03 - Dana White and the UFC don’t pay their fighters enough; The overlaps within MMA and boxing 1:13:28 - The True Crime Story of how Lou became a Cocaine Cowboy in Miami WHILE he was a Heavyweight contender; Wild stories from the Miami drug trade at night; planes, boats, and blow; How they wrapped cocaine in the drug smuggling trade; Lou talks about the Colombians and the Cubans and who he worked with 1:29:24 - When Lou knew he was done fighting; Fighting in Madison Square Garden; Funny stories about Lou’s friend and training partner, Muhammad Ali; That time Ali beat Lou up out of nowhere in a sparring session; What Muhammad Ali’s legacy means; Ali, McGregor, Mayweather and fight promotion; Lou breaks down Floyd Mayweather and Mike Tyson 1:55:12 - How Lou’s trainers would psyche him up for a fight; Funny stories about various fights Lou had; Lou lists off all the greats he sparred with including Ali, Frazier, and Foreman 2:10:19 - Lou talks about the National Geographic documentary he starred in regarding illegal bookmaking; How Lou ended up becoming a major cocaine distributor; How Lou would smuggle cocaine from Miami to New York City; The cocaine abuse comeback and drugs across pop culture; Lou talks about a DEA Agent he paid off; Why Lou thinks many cops can be bought 2:31:45 - Lou’s work with the Cubans in Miami (who were covered in Billy Corben’s most recent Cocaine Cowboys Documentary, “Cocaine Cowboys: Kings of Miami”); The Cali Cartel and Medellin Cartel (Pablo Escobar) from Colombia; How Lou jumped an indictment and fled to Greece; Lou’s work as an extortionist in Greece; How Lou got arrested in Barcelona; How Lou bought off everyone in his Spanish prison; H... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So he's throwing all the coke out of the plane and it's hitting houses and busting and one guy's outside he's watering his lawn and the kilo hits his shirt and it's all over the coke busted and the guy goes what the fuck is that and I'm going I'm going yo don't worry I'll clean it up now I'm calling the police I said don't do that don't do that let me clean it up you're out there with a fucking dustpan i'm trying to clean it up shut up leave it alone the guy the guy wouldn't let me this is without a doubt the most absurd podcast we have recorded in this studio and i don't think it's close i'm not even going to give in this studio, and I don't think it's close. I'm not even going to give it a real intro because I won't do it justice.

I am joined in the bunker today by a living legend, Mr. Louisa, who will keep your jaw on the floor, have you laughing the whole time, and has a story that if I sold it to a Hollywood studio, they'd throw me out and tell me there's no way that happened. But it did. If you're on YouTube right now, they'd throw me out and tell me there's no way that happened. But it did. If you're on YouTube right now, please make sure you subscribe and like the video. Thank you for checking out the channel. If you're on Apple and Spotify and haven't already subscribed on Apple or followed on Spotify, make sure you do that. Hope to see you guys again for future episodes. And I want you to enjoy the fuck out of this conversation because it was absolutely incredible. That said, you know what it is.

I'm Julian Dory, and this is Trapfire. everyone understands this but few seem to do it if you don't like the status quo start asking questions i've been looking forward to this one because i was thinking and i think i told you this right when you walked in here but i was thinking about this the last few days and i'm like you know i've known lou now for six seven years i don't think i've like i've gotten so many stories from you we used to talk all the time i remember my first time where you were in whippany when i was in there in the morning and i'm like hitting the bag and i hear someone start screaming get keep your hand up keep your hand up i'm like what and then suddenly like

you're over there with like a timer on me and i'm like oh all right this guy's into it i'm looking up it's like there's this woolly mammoth standing right there teaching me how to box and then i started getting some of your story like in pieces but i've never like sat down with you and and gotten the full kind of from start to end how this went and i say that because for people listening who don't know who you are, I mean, you're a boxing legend. You've been around this sport for, what, 45 years, something like that? Yeah, maybe more. And you were one of the top-ranked heavyweights in the world. You are a member of the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame. If I'm missing some other things, let me know what they are.

Florida State, Florida Hall of Fame. Florida as well. And you trained down at Fifth Street Gym under Angelo Dundee. Well, Angelo Dundee was part of the Mendoza group, but my trainer was my everyday trainer, and my main trainer was Dwayne Simpson. Dwayne Simpson was an unbelievable teacher, not so much as you call trainer. Not too many trainers can teach you duane simpson could teach you now for people that don't know fifth street gym is where

ollie was yes all the big well that's where he started and you know he started out at fifth street gym well i don't know if that's where he started but that's where he landed when he was in miami i think he started in memphis or louisville k, as an amateur. And then he moved to Miami, and that's where he went to. He was trained at the Fifth Street Gym. So he had a trainer before Dundee? When he was young, I think there was, yeah, when he was in the amateurs. I didn't know that. But how did you get into it?

Because, and this story I know, but I want you to tell it. Like how you kind of showed up at the gym and Ali because Ali was there or something yeah yeah yeah I was playing football and got hurt and I was home convalescing I had my leg up I'm watching tv and the news came on and it said Ali's at the fifth street gym training so I said oh my god I'm getting ready I want to go down and see Ali I that's my hero you know i want to see him so i put together a a package you know so i could train rather than be standing there in the crowd i could train and be in there right next to him so i went down there and i put my i put my gloves and everything in there and i went down to the gym i had to lose weight anyway i was like 320 something. Holy shit. And I'm running a 4.840 defensive end. You ran a 4.840 at 320?

Until I got hit in the knee, yeah. And then I knew how to lose weight through boxing because I boxed in the amateurs. So I said I could lose the weight into gym. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I won the Golden Gloves in New England. When you were growing up? In Boston, yeah. I went from Jersey.

There was no competition. They told me no competition here. So I went to Boston and fought in the Fargo building in South Boston. The last year they had the Golden Gloves there. Then they moved them to the Boston Garden. But they were in the Fargo building in South Boston. I used to train at Connolly's Gym in South Boston. Yeah.

And I went to the Fargo building, and I fought two guys in one night, knocked them both out, and I won the Golden Gloves in New England. And I drove home that night, and actually, first time I ever saw a piggyback trailer. You ever see those trailers that carries two?

Do they have two boxes behind the truck? Maybe. Well, these are the first time they ever came out with them. They're two boxes they're real long they call them piggyback trailers riding down the new england thruway and i'm driving i got a convertible gto and how old are you 17 coming home with my robe and my trophy and everything you know one outstanding fighter and i had two big trophies and everything and i'm driving home and i'm all excited i'm going home, and this guy didn't see me, just pulled right in my lane, hit me, and I

was knocking off him like a pinball, and onto the guardrail, which was just a, like a metal rope, and I kept hitting, and finally my car went up in the air like this, and I looked down, I'm like a hundred foot drop, like, oh my god, please no, and I'm jumping in the car, it hit the ground and uh the car bounced off the truck and then he pulled away kept going he didn't he kept going he didn't even know he hit me he didn't even know how do you not know you hit somebody because I told you the piggyback trailer it's real long he has trailer then another one hooked to it the back one was the one that was hitting me you're not gonna know that something hit that I don't know he said

he didn't know because thank god there was a state trooper behind me. Yeah. There was a state trooper there. So the trooper called ahead. Sounds like he remembered. Stopped the truck. Yeah. And the trooper came up and he goes, how are you going to get out of that car?

Because I had door locks and they were locked. I couldn't get out because it was all dented. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $5. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, English muffin sandwiches, value iced coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa?

As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise, and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash FinTech so you were fine oh yeah it was okay but uh I said I'll get out and I just punched through the roof I gotta get out so I got out wait that was it was a soft top roof yeah with a convertible all right still a convertible i punched through the roof and i got out and the cop goes wow and then i said well i got to get my trophy and my my robe and everything i got my stuff and i grabbed and then my girl from new jersey drove up to where i was at the new york thruway and she uh she picked me up and i went back to my car which they towed into by where we were. And I got all

my clothes and everything out of it. And then we went home. That's wild. Yeah. 17. 17 years old, driving up to, I lived in Brookline, Massachusetts, 97 Aspen Wall Avenue. Oh, so you moved up there too. To train with a guy named Al Lacy. Al Lacy trained a conglomerate from the garment district. I used to work in the garment district when I was younger, 17.

In New York City. Yeah. When I was working there and my- What were you doing in the garment district? First, I worked out in the warehouse. Then I worked on a truck. Then I worked in the office as a salesman for women's car coats. You have to wear a suit. And people come from Bloomingdale's,

from all the Neiman Marcus and all that, and you sell them the clothes. But they were selling clothes on consignment. Back in those days, I don't know if they do it these days, but back in those days, you could sell 100,000 coats on consignment. Whatever they don't sell, they give you back. So if they take the clothes and they have them for six months and they don't sell a bunch't sell, they give you back. So if they take the clothes

and they have them for six months and they don't sell a bunch of them, they send them back. I said, no, that's not the way to do this. Well, to make a long story short, I left before they went under. Wait, you didn't reinvent how they did their business? Yeah, no. So one of the guys who was in that business, the garment business, he was actually my first wife's father. He died before we got married, but he knew my father real well. And they said, why don't we put him in, because they gave him one of my amateur boxing shows in Patterson. And I knocked the guy out. He goes, let's take him up with a trainer, see if he's got something.

We'll turn him pro. So they sent me up to Brookline, and that's when I trained with Al Lacy. Al Lacy trained Paul Pinder, who beat Sugar Ray Robinson, and he trained Jack Sharkey before he won that world championship. And Al Lacy was the manager of the Revere dog track. So he had two houses. He lived in one, and the other one was a boarding house, and that's where I lived.

And I used to get up in the morning and run to the reservoir right not far from the house and I would run around the reservoir that would be my road work with the dogs I'd run home and get and jump in he didn't have no hot water I just took a cold cold shower and then I would make my own breakfast and wait for Al and we'd go to the gym and that's what I did for a year until the Golden Gloves came around and he enrolled me in the Golden Gloves and we won well there's another thing because I don't know if it works the same today well I'm sure there's differences but how do you get into that do you have to win a certain number of fights on the amateur circuit no you can go the Golden Gloves has all different

levels there's the sub novice which is guys from zero to two fights. Okay. If you have zero to two fights, you could be sub-novice. Then they have novice, which is two to nine, two to ten, two to ten, two to ten. Now, two to ten is novice. Then you have ten plus is open class. The zero to two and then two to 10 is two-minute rounds. The open class, which is 10 plus, is three-minute rounds.

And this is for the amateur, sir? Yes, three rounds, two three-minute, three two-minute rounds is novice and sub-novice. And open class is three three-minute rounds is novice and sub-novice. And open class is three three-minute rounds. So you were, I did not know this, you were boxing for years growing up. And then somewhere along the way you're like, I want to do football. Yeah. Well, no, what happened was I was boxing and playing football. But I was doing both.

But I wanted to box. But then I got a chance to play football in college so i went where'd you go to college st peter's in jersey city i i drove a friend of mine he was playing football there and going to school there so i drove him to practice because he didn't have something was wrong with his car and i'm standing on the sidelines and the coach sees me he goes hey tomm, who's that? That's my friend Louie. He goes, does he play football? He goes, yeah, he plays.

He goes, ask if he wants to play with us. So he asked me. He goes, go get him a uniform. And that was it. They got me into the school, and I was ready to play. And we played St. Peter's. We played Jersey City State College the following week. I played starting defensive end. The next week. Starting defensive end.

The next week. The next week, I was starting defensive end. What were you, 18 at that time, freshman? 17, 18, yeah, I was 18. So you just walked on the campus, they sign you up, and you play. And I played. And what were you, 6'6", and 300? I was 6'5", about 285 at the time. Running a 4'7", I guess, because you added pounds to get a 4'8".

4'8", yeah. So I was doing pretty good. And then Carlissimo, the coach, he called Snellenberger down in Miami and said, man, do I got a defensive end for you? The Dolphins? No, he was at University of Miami at the time. He was a coach. Oh, because Dolphins was Shula then, right?

Shula. What year are we talking here? 73 when I went down to Miami. Then I went 74 and 75 I went to the Dolphins. He gave me a walk-on. Shula, I met Shula at a birthday party. No, at a football game.

My ex-wife's nephew played at a high school in Miami called Chaminade. And Shula's kids went there too. They played also. So I was at the game watching my wife's nephew, and Shula was there about standing maybe two feet away from me, and we were talking about football.

Him and I started talking about football. He goes, you play? I go, yeah. He goes, why don't you come down? I want to see what you can do. You know how crazy that is for our generation to hear that, like, you're standing next to an NFL legend, and he's like, you can do. You know how crazy that is for our generation to hear that you're standing next to an NFL legend. He's like, you'll do. Come to the field tomorrow.

Before he was a legend. I mean, before he was. It was the first couple of months there. Head coach of a team, though. Yeah, I went there. And he goes, what can you run the 40? And I said, probably 4.8, 4.7, 4.8. He goes, how much do you weigh?

I said, about 325. He goes, come on, run it. So he makes me run it. Run it again. He tells the guy, they're looking at the clock. Can you run it one more time? Yeah. Run it again.

He goes, okay, get him a uniform. I started playing. First game of preseason against the, I think it was the Baltimore Colts when they were in Baltimore. I got a helmet to the knee. Helmet to the knee. My career was over.

They go, you can play again. But if you do and you get hit again, you'll have to walk with a crutch. I said, that's how I'm looking to have kids. I want to be able to teach my kids football. I want to play games with them. What'd you tear? Back then, they just took everything out. ACLcl they just take everything out holy it was all clear it out instead of today they just cut a little bit and they or they fuse it with a with the i don't know they

don't kill it they don't kill everything but back then they just scrape everything out that surgery has come such a long i mean all of them have but that one's come such a long way yes these guys are back on the field and right away and that's that's the one i'm looking forward to and i don't know the science behind it but i'm looking forward to five ten years from now if it's at the place where it's like oh you get that injury you're back on the field in two months yes three months because it's still you know they'll play it conservative if it's like a quarterback or something but these guys are still taking nine months to get back to the field. But you tear your ACL now, it's like, all right, you got to do a lot of rehab.

It's going to suck, but you're probably going to be all right most of the time. Yeah, today modern medicine has grown leaps and bounds. It's unbelievable what they could do today. I mean, I walked on that first operation. They scraped everything out out so i walked bone on bone for almost 30 years i was at i was at whippany when you were there when i went and got my knee operated on right before you came i think i got my knee operated on i got i had the total replacement oh that's but it was so much better because i used to leave whippany at night, drive home with tears in my eyes. So you were a pro boxer, bone on bone.

Yeah. Yeah. My first fight, I was a pro when I got hurt. All right, yeah, let's back, because we got on a tangent about boxing because I didn't know your background. But you were saying you had your foot up like on the bed. Yeah. And then you, I guess you were walking around again.

You saw Ali's in town. Right. So then you're like I'm going to go down and I'm going to hit the bag while I'm there and that's what happened I walked in

I paid my two dollars I went in the back place was filthy dirty but went in the back got dressed came out wrapped my hands and started shadowboxing

then I jumped rope for three rounds and Ali was in the ring there was like 200 people there listening to him and Ali was in the ring moving around and I'm watching him and then I put rope for three rounds. And Ali was in the ring. There was like 200 people there listening to him. And Ali was in the ring moving around. I'm watching him. And then I put my mitts on.

And I was going to start hitting the bag. You know, the old bag gloves where you slide them on. They were like four ounces. But, you know, and I started hitting the bag. When the bell rang, I started hitting the bag. And I was hitting that thing with everything. And at the time, I was three something. So I'm hitting that bag.

Boom, boom, boom. And head started to that thing with everything. And at the time, I was three-something. So I'm hitting that bag, boom, boom, boom. And head started to turn looking at me. And Ali don't like that a little bit. You know, he's very vain. You know, what the hell are you? Who's that, your white hope? Why are you looking at him and not me? Exactly.

So I was hitting the bag, and all of a sudden, I threw a left hook, and the damn chain broke. Here comes the heavy bag. The heavy bag comes down, and it hits the floor. How heavy was the bag, and all of a sudden, I threw a left hook, and the damn chain broke. Here comes the heavy bag. It comes down, and it hits the floor. How heavy was the bag? 200 pounds. You're hitting a big boy, too. It hits the floor.

I go, damn, I'm going to get thrown out of here. I just started this. Now, I know who Angelo Dundee is, but he doesn't know me. He goes walking over. I go, Angelo, don't worry about the bag. I know there's a hardware store around here. I'll go get a chain. I'll pick it up. Don't worry about it. He goes, how was a hardware store around here. I'll go get a chain. I'll pick it up.

Don't worry about it. He goes, how was that bag? Nice shot. You ever fight before? I go, when I was a kid, yeah, I was in the Golden Gloves and things like that. But I started playing football and got hurt. Now I'm here to lose weight. I'm 200, 300 pounds.

I got to lose weight. He goes, you don't look no three. I said, I'm 325, 322, something like that. So he goes, oh, my God, you don't look it. So I go, yeah, I 25, three 22, something like that. So he goes, Oh my God, you don't look it. So I go, yeah,

I am. So we started talking. He goes, you ever meet the champ? I go, no, he's my idol. So I went over there and we're talking and Ali,

you know, we, we hit, cause he had gloves on. We go like that. We hit gloves. Then he goes, um,

put your arms out like that. White boy. I put my arms out. He goes, put his hand way up in the air. And he goes in good consciousness. I can't even interrupt this episode for very long because it's Luis is a national treasure. I told you it was going to be, I hope you're enjoying so far. So just very, very quickly link in my

description, code trend to fire a checkout. That's T R E N D I F I E R get an eight sleep pod pro cover queen or King sizes goes right on top of your current mattress and will absolutely change your energy every single morning for the rest of your natural life so long as that may be. Since I started using my Eight Sleep, it feels like I slept eight hours every night and I promise you I haven't slept eight hours in three years. I haven't even slept seven hours in three years. So anyway, get that. it link in description trend to fire check out let's get back to lou that's how much money you and i gotta make you keep doing this i go sounds great but i'm only here to lose weight champ now how old was he at the time oh i don't know he just he just came back in after his suspension he had just come back he was fighting quarry jerry quarry for the title or for his first fight back because this was like 75 yeah around then something like that

and then he was his one was the rumble in the jungle oh god that was 78 okay so it was a few years after somewhere 77 78 that was yeah ollie was uh fought, he fought, I think he fought the Rumble, Foreman. He fought Foreman before he fought Frazier three times first. Then he fought Foreman. Yeah, I think that was it. I'm not sure. God, they were so loaded. That division was so loaded.

That was the heavyweight era you're talking about. You were in it. Even the top ten, you're talking about Ron Lyle. If you ever want to see a fight, a real good heavyweight fight, watch Ron Lyle, George Foreman. Go on YouTube and pull it up. Both of them down. Both of them back up fighting, punching.

I mean, you cannot believe the action in this fight. You can feel it. I mean, you cannot believe the action in this fight. You could feel it. I mean, you could feel the punching. I mean, if you were like myself, I was in there. I know what it's like. You feel those punches when you see it. Oh, yeah. Boom, boom.

Oh, my God. Look at that. It was so... But you're talking about Lyle, Foreman, Frazier, Ali, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonaventure, George Chiavallo. You talked about him before. I know that name. George Chiavallo's from Canada.

I've never seen a video of him. Oh, my God. George Chiavallo. Chuck Wepner. Know him. Chuck Wepner, the Bayonne Bleeder from New Jersey. He's the guy who got me inducted into the New Jersey Boxing Hall. He was the guy that was like the inspiration for Rocky.

Yes, he was. Yes. He finally got his due to Ali. I mean, Stallone finally gave him some money. I heard that he won a lawsuit, got some money. I was happy because he's a great guy. That was like a 30 for 30, right? They made a documentary on that.

I believe they did. On him being the real Rocky? Yes, I think he did they also made a he had his own he put he had his own movie he had his movie put out another movie his own movie like a doc or no it was a movie about about the bayonne bleeder which is the real rocky no shit yeah because i guess the story was stallone went and saw the Ali fight versus Wepner because Ali decided to give this unknown guy a shot. And Wepner took him the distance. Didn't win, but took him the distance.

Knocked him down. Knocked him down. And Stallone was like, holy shit, that's one of the most inspiring things i've ever seen goes home locks himself in a room writes a script in like two three days that became like i think it was like 10 15 of what the final script was but it was rocky and then one thing leads to another ends up find his way to star in it becomes a worldwide right now rocky yeah unbelievable now everybody you talk to anybody when they see it's alone they say hey rocky hey rocky they don't call him uh stallone or what they call him sly or whatever they don't say that they call him rock yeah he's it's the most like indelible i mean especially like in philly but everywhere it's like the most indelible story of like underdog perseverance it's just it's

synonymous but wepner was because he was even though they called him the upstart and that technically for what he was doing fighting the greatest ever do it he was but he was a pretty legit fighter weapon yeah the jersey state heavyweight champ yeah oh yeah he fought fought a lot of guys fought a lot of the top guys and stayed right there. He's held his own. I mean, Chuck Webner was a great fighter. Great fighter. And never got the proper due, you know, but unbelievable. Now, I think he did get it with his movie and with Ali, I mean, with Stallone finally admitting that he is the real Rocky and things like that. So he got his due.

That's good. So you're in the gym. Ollie says we're going to make a lot of money. You were just there to train. You're still telling him you're there to train. Yeah, I'm only there to lose weight. Is he like, show up tomorrow? They say, come back tomorrow.

We want to talk to you. So when I left, I had a motorcycle. Even though I hurt my knee, I had a motorcycle. I drove home on the motorcycle. When you're in Miami, traffic gets crazy. You get the motorcycle, you can scoot through traffic, and you get out. So I had the motorcycle, and I come back the next day, and I'm training. After I'm training, they call me in the office, and they said,

Look, we got a proposition for you. They introduced me to Murray Gaby. Murray Gaby was my manager, and he was part of the Mendoza group who owned my contract. Was he, was he Ali's guy? No. Murray Gaby was a, um, how do you spell that? G-A-B-Y or G-A-U-B-Y? M-A-U-R-R-Y. Murray or M-U-A-R-R-Y. Yeah. Murray Gaby. And he was actually an ex-pro. He was an ex-pro fighter. And he was a movie, he was an actor.

He went to University of Miami. He did both. And he was a great guy. He's not with us now, but he was a fantastic guy. Was unbelievable to me. So they offered me a contract, and they said, we want you to start fighting. I said, but I just got hurt. I got a lawsuit. I got hit in the face with a glass in Greenwood Lake, New York, after I won the Golden Gloves.

I was getting ready to go into the Olympic trials. I got hit in the face with a glass. When you were like 18, 17? Yeah. So I got 365 stitches. Here, a scar here. And then this is years later, but there were still problems there? No, no, but the case was coming up,

and I thought I was going to make a lot of money on the case. So I told the guys, listen, I can't box now. I got a cut here. What happens if it opens up? So Dundee looked at it. He goes, that's under your eye. He goes, how much do you think you're going to get for that case? I don't know, 100, maybe 150,000. He goes, we're talking about millions here. So you hear that millions and all of a sudden, okay, I'm ready. Let's do this. So I started running and I started jogging even though my leg was killing me i was doing okay i did all right how far could you run i was running four miles but i would swim yeah i got into swimming i and i started swimming and i started swimming two three

miles before i ran and i'd run two three miles and but swim two three miles and uh you do that in the pool or you go in the ocean with the sharks? In the lake. First, I did the ocean after I found out there was alligators in the lake. I'm swimming there. Wait, what lake? There's a lake where I live. They have these man-made big lakes.

Oh, man. So I'm swimming there. You're swimming in one of those? I used to run around it three miles. And then I would stretch, and then I would go in and swim back and forth. I'd swim back and forth. It'd be about three miles.

So I'm swimming there. I come out one day, and there's a Dade County Metro cop car there. I get out of the water. He goes, what are you doing? I said, what is this trick question? I'm swimming. I said, I'm getting ready for a fight. I run, and is this trick question? I'm swimming. I said, I'm getting ready for a fight. I run, then I swim.

He goes, do you know there's alligators in there? Are you fucking crazy? I said, why did you tell me that? He goes, there's alligators, a lot of them. They'll grab you. What are you, nuts? So I said, well, they haven't bothered me yet. So I go, now I can't go in.

Now I'm going to be looking every which way because you got me worried. I'm going to get pulled in by an alligator. I think you had the alligator scared. I think they were afraid of you. So I just didn't go there anymore. That's when I had my wife. I had a boat, I had a nice boat. And she used to take the boat out, and I would go out three miles. In the Atlantic Ocean.

Yeah, and then she would follow me back. So if I see a shark or something, she'd hit the engines. Boom! The shark would take off. Did that happen? Yeah. So you went from swimming with the alligators to the great whites? Well, down in Florida, they're not bull.

Not bull. They're, what do they call those sharks? White tips. There's a lot of bull sharks down there. Down in Florida, they're not bull, not bull. They're, what do they call those sharks? White tips. There's still, there's a lot of bull sharks down there. There's a lot, not in Florida. Yeah, I jumped over a bull shark in Florida. Swear to God. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Hammerheads, white tips, and, you know, reef sharks. Well, there might be a bull here and there, but not too many. We're still talking things that bite. Yeah, things that go biting at night. But it was easy when you have your wife behind you don't think it scared me every time she hits that engine i say she wants to see the shark i start picking it up a little faster so you'd swim three miles back like like what part of miami where like right where the board is i go out keep this game because that's where i had my boat parked in the Key Biscayne Marina.

And she would get in the boat and we'd go out and I'd jump in and I'd say, okay, follow me back. And I'd go back and she'd be following me. So make sure there were no sharks. She would see a shark. She hit the engine. Boom. How many days a week did you do that? Five.

Jesus Christ. Five days a week. So I got good-sized shoulders uh my back was nice and strong from all that now how long did it take before like how did they start gearing you up because you hadn't been boxing in i guess like four years or something like that so how soon did you get a fight like how did it all work well i was training at the gym and then after about three months i got down to about i think i was 258 holy shit you took off like 60 pounds yeah 70 pounds yeah eating right dieting you know so i uh i took off the

weight i was 258 for my first fight and uh i was sparring then you know in the gym so uh i i that's how it started and then every every month i bought after that every month or every two weeks in the beginning it was every two weeks jesus christ because dundee wants to run a show if you're if you're a if you're a draw he's running the show and where were you all over the country or oh no no miami miami always miami yeah then i went to orlando then i went to the garden then i went out to vegas So, yeah, all over the country. Yeah, but not too many. Most of my fights, I'd say I had 27 or 29,

I can't remember right now, 20-something fights. Most of them were in Miami because Dundee wanted that gate. Because, I mean, you're talking about when I don't know anybody in Miami. I just moved down and I got divorced and I was by myself in Coconut Grove, living in Coconut Grove. Wait, you were married when you were like 20? Yeah, I was married. I've been married five times.

No shit. So I got married when I was 19. Then I, then that's the one I moved to Florida with. And then I met a Cuban girl in Florida. And after I got divorced from her and I married the Cuban, she's the only one I have children with, my daughter and my son. I have twins, boy and a girl. That's the mother of my children.

Then I met another girl, a Portuguese girl. Then I met a Russian. You're just going all over the map. When I was in Greece, I lived in Greece for four or five years. Wait, you met a Russian in Greece? Yeah, a Ukrainian girl. Was her father... Yeah, he was a Russian wise guy.

Yeah. So then I came home and I met a Polish girl, American, American girl, Polish descent. And that's who I'm married to now. I'm very happily married. I was going to say, you've been married a long time now. I was like surprised to hear that. Yeah, Polish descent. And that's who I'm married to now. I'm very happily married. I was going to say, you've been married a long time now. I was like surprised to hear that. Yeah, 13 years.

You were just around the whole gamut. It's kind of hard though. I got to think being especially a sport like boxing that just requires, I mean, you just explain it with the swimming and everything is one example, but it's around the clock training. It's a brutal sport. It's all the time. Yeah, you have to live it. Yeah, it's got to be hard, like, keeping everything else in line.

Yeah, exactly. You hit it on the head. If you can't, you have to have good backing. If you're going to be a pro fighter, I don't care who you are or what you do, you can't have a job and be a pro fighter. It just can't work. You have to live. You have to get up at 5 a.m. and you got to go run so that the air is still. It's not freezing cold. If you live

in Jersey, you got to have people behind you so that when you're ever going to train for a fight, you got to go eight weeks. You got to move to Florida and you got to train down there. And that's where you got to train. That's where you have to train in a warm area either Arizona or Florida so you got to go where the you know you can do that can't do that up here how you gonna get up at five o'clock in the morning and it's three below yeah you got to go run in the snow I mean okay all that stuff with that with Rocky in the movie with the uh with the Drago yeah no with the yeah with the movie with the pole on his back and he's walking through the snow. That's all the movies. That's the movies.

That's not real life. So if you really want to do this, you have to live it, eat it, sleep it, everything. It's hard. Your diet has to be perfect so that what you eat turns to muscle. It doesn't turn to fat, so you have to work harder to get it off. I mean, it's all a hard thing. All the different muscles you have to use. You have to do strength and conditioning.

Years ago, they never did that. They did calisthenics, but never strength and conditioning. Like today, strength and conditioning is a big part of a boxer's, you know. Well, what did you do? So when you were training, like, did you lift a lot too? Never, never. Never. I lifted weights in my life.

You've never lifted weights in your life? No, never. I mean, fooling around, you know, at the gyms, you know. You know what's funny? I was thinking about this too. I never, all the times I saw you at the gym, I know you do it sometimes, but I never, like, worked out with you

or saw you working out, and yet every time I see, I mean, you're still, what are you, 60 now? I'll be 70 in January. Jesus Christ. And you're still, I mean, you beat the shit out of everyone who's been on this podcast. You're like a fucking mammoth. It's like, it's got to be natural then. Like, you never lifted a weight. No, I just got, I got very lucky.

When I was 17 and I was in high school, I graduated at 17. But I graduated high school like around four or five foot four, 157 pounds. Wait, you graduated high school? Yes. Or middle school? No, high school. But you were 6'5 when you were 18. I grew that big during the summer of my graduating year.

I grew from what I just told you to the summer of my graduating year. I grew from what I just told you to 6'2", 225 when I left the hospital. They thought they were going to cut me from here

to my belly button. And they were going to open me up to find out why I was growing day by day. I was growing day by day.

In a summer, you grew 8 inches, 9 inches, whatever. When my coach saw me the next school year he started crying it was oh my god you grew into your mouth he goes oh my god did they figure out like why that happened no sudden burst of growth now years later it couldn't have been what what

was wrong with me i had an ablation i. I was at the gym, Whippany, and I had an extra valve in my heart. All these years, they heard a sound, so they called it a heart murmur. They didn't know what it was because they didn't have the technology. Wasn't that a Sopranos character? They called him Murmur.

Yeah, so I had the murmur, right? So then I go to the doctor. They wanted to cut me from here, but instead they did an upper and lower catheterization, and the doctor labeled me just a sudden burst of growth. He goes, there's nothing wrong with your son. It's just a sudden burst of growth. I said to him, yo, what about this?

What about this? Why, the rest of me is growing. What about this? He said, you've got the white man's disease. Other than that, you're going to be a big boy. I wasn't ready for that. I'm growing like crazy. What about this?

That's the only thing. I'm growing. But did you say you played football in high school? Yeah, I played. So what were you playing, like tailback? I was a cornerback and safety so that's why no one was scouting you because you're just some dude and then you show up and suddenly you're and i guess you grew even more after that i went to six i stopped at six

five and a half three something three three oh god damn i'm right now i'm about 300 or 290. I was 304 when my wife and I took her to the doctor last week or the week before. And then I went yesterday to the doctor with her. Not yesterday, Saturday. And I weighed again and I was 290. So I was really happy I lost 14 pounds. I've been trying to get down. You look good. You look great.

Trying, trying. And I'll bet you'd still be taking punches to the gut in a warm-up for a fight. Oh, yeah. 15 pounds I've been trying to get down you look good you look great trying trying and you still I'll bet you'd still be taking punches to the gut in a warm-up for a fight yeah 100 no problem I've never seen anything like that in my life I was like a little scared because that's the thing I'm like you tell them you don't lift weights you never did this and like I guess things like the some of the stuff like swimming and stuff like that has to help but you got to have like abs of steel under there still. No, I got a good core, but their abs aren't there.

I'm saying like, yeah, I should have said the core. My core is like a rock, but the rest is still blabby. You're getting there. You know, you're getting old. You get 70. You got to start lifting. I can't believe you're 70. I have to start lifting weights though because that's the only thing.

At my age, that's the only thing that you'll get muscle again with. And you get bone. It does something to like keep bone density density yeah all that you need if you don't lift uh weights you don't have to be i don't have to be a power lifter you know just go in and do like sets of 12 to 15 with light weights just to tone up i'm gonna walk in the race place next year you're gonna be benching 325 you're gonna like you like race place race places yeah i gotta go visit that it's off the hook it's off though you i mean he has the there's machines where you put so much weight on one two and three and as you hit that as you're pushing the weight it's the first you know you push it for here and then for there and then for here there's certain

weights for here certainly for here and a certain way for here it's and you were and you get stronger so much faster it's like i said ray where did you get all this because i've been doing so much research i got i'm sure you have yeah i mean it had to be years and and he's like he's so into that shit i used to go to ray for recovery yeah when i was having elbow problems he fucking oh yeah he helps you out you get i never had a problem again. Yeah, well, he's got all the equipment now. You know, he's got everything. And now he has the office over there, his little office.

He has all his equipment there. So if anybody gets hurt during his training or even if they're training by themselves and they ask Ray to help them, he helps them right out. That's awesome. I'm happy for him. Me too. I think he deserves it. He works hard. He's a hardworking guy. And you know what? He's good. I'm happy for him. Me too. I think he deserves it. He works hard.

He's a hardworking guy. And you know what? He's good. He's so good. He's good at what he does. Knows everything about it. You know, he's like a scientist. I used to call him like the scientist with that stuff.

Played football too. Yeah, yeah. He played, didn't he play in like NFL Europe too? Yeah, yeah. He was telling me when he was over in one of the L's, Lithuania, Latvia, one of that shit, like whatever it was. They were going out, like they would go out on like Monday, like the off day. And it was like fishing with dynamite in a barrel because apparently one of those countries has like no men in it. Yeah.

So they're like the only guys and all of them are hot. Like all the women are hot. So they're like, oh, shit. It's like it's fucking insane when i went to when i went to greece and i met russian women i said man the united states has been lying to me i thought you were i thought you had scarves on your head you had forms bigger than mine and you're you know big ugly women but oh my god they were gorgeous that's that's when you figured out that the government wasn't always telling you oh my god they're not telling the truth.

I grew up with a bunch of lies. I thought you Russian women. You're Russian? Wow. That's hilarious. Blonde hair, blue eyes, black hair, green eyes. I mean, they were gorgeous. I couldn't believe it.

I just couldn't believe it. A lot of talent in Russia. Yes. There's a lot of talent. There's a lot of talent in Greece, too. I'm sure it was hard to pick out. Greece is beautiful. Greece is something.

Greece is unbelievable. It's like living in a fairy tale. I'm waiting for the sirens to call. You could rent a boat. Well, I don't know about now, but when I was living there. You could rent a sailboat, a 22-foot sailboat. Never have to put the sail up. Use a little engine. go from island to island.

You park off the island, off the beach. You throw your anchor in the water. You swim in, lock up, swim in. You have a big Ziploc with your clothes in it, shorts, T-shirt, and a pair of sandals. You get up, you dry off, put your bathing suit over a tree there, over a limb, and you walk into the town and have breakfast and have lunch and walk around.

And at night, the nightclubs open up. You could wear a pair of shorts, T-shirt, and sandals, and you could get a drink in one bar, walk in the next with the same drink, and they don't care. No. How was the nightlife when you were there? Oh, off the hook yeah there were eight women for every guy it's greece is the best kept secret and like

everyone goes to mykonos and stuff now but i'm talking like the rest of the country too holy shit athens is off the hook i live you're gonna say athens. No shit. I lived in... It was the last place I was going to say. I lived in the Soho of Athens. It was called Glifada. I had a penthouse. I lived right on the water. When was this? In a two-bedroom penthouse. I lived there for five years.

When? When I got out of jail. A bunch of guys, we got involved in some conspiracy. 32 of us were involved and uh they got arrested one guy got arrested and when one guy got arrested it's the domino theory yeah so i said forget the domino last domino i'm out of here i left so everybody got arrested but me i left the country i went and lived in greece wait you skipped bail no i didn't get bailed they never got me i left before they got me so you jumped the indictment yeah I jumped the indictment oh my god so you just went to Greece

yeah I went to Greece would you do you speak Greek no now but then I didn't all right where I lived in glee father they had an American base so would American base. So everybody spoke English. So Gleefather was like the Soho of Athens. And I lived in a two-bedroom apartment right on the water. It was gorgeous. Everything was beautiful. The apartment, take a guess what it cost me, in a penthouse right on the Mediterranean Sea. What year are we talking?

84? No, 89. 89. 89. In today's dollar value, were you doing rent? Yeah, rent. I rented. $1,000 a month.

It was $250 American. Back then, though. Yes. So today, that'd be like $1,500, something like that. But $250 over there is a lot of money in America. Oh, yeah. But you got to remember, the apartment was fully furnished with TVs, telephones, everything. Knives, forks, spoons.

No, it was just a two-bedroom. Okay. One floor overlooking a balcony. It was a penthouse with a big balcony overlooking the Mediterranean right there. I mean, it was unbelievable. Would I tell you how unbelievable? All I had to do is put my clothes in a drawer and i live there have my own phone everything already everything's in their phone everything's there wow so greece is first of all they a lot of greeks speak phenomenal english oh yeah like a lot well they live right

in astoria they don't have a whole greek community over there yeah yeah and there's a ton of overlap like my best friend from my whole life is greek he's a dual citizen right so i'm very familiar with the culture and everything you've never been there oh i've been there oh you gotta go with him oh i've been there yeah yeah we we did the nightlife in greece that was i've been to greece a couple times and it's fucking insane but when I was growing up anyone who still lived over there they you know they're all family they're all related they come here they visit they lived over there like the Americans who were dual citizens lived over there in the summers there's a ton of overlap of that culture the Greek Greek government and the Greek it's so relaxed everything's so yes the word the Greeks say,

metta, means later, metta, metta avrio, after tomorrow, after tomorrow, after tomorrow. They don't care. They don't want to be bothered. That's the way it was. And it's funny, I wanted to open a nightclub and I'm walking around in Glyphatha and I find this open store for rent. So I go in there, I talk to the guy. I tell him, I want to put a nightclub in here. He goes, go ahead, I don't care what you do. So we came up with a rent. And I go and I get a friend of mine who's from America

who I met out there from Livingston, New Jersey. Couldn't believe it. So I met him. Had to go all the way to Greece for a Livingston guy. So I go, John, can you help me? I want to build a bar. He's a carpenter. Sure, we'll build it. We build the bar. I went to the liquor the way to Greece for a Livingston guy. So I go, John, can you help me? I want to build a bar. He's a carpenter. Sure, we'll build it.

We build the bar. I went to the liquor store, bought liquor, and I was open. No liquor license. You don't need none of that over there. Come on. Yeah, you don't need none of that. You open up, that's it. I put in a DJ box, a booth, and I had CDs come to my brother.

I call my brother, and I make him go to the city, go to all the clubs, like Studio 54, all the newest clubs at the time, wherever it was open. Get me CDs from the DJs, and they would give me the CDs, and I'd throw them in there and put them on. And I had a box.

The guy ran a line and a speaker outside so the kids could hear his music, and they'd forget about it. They'd run to my place. How big was the space? Oh, it wasn't that big. It was nice. It was on the second? Oh, it wasn't that big. It was nice. It was on the second floor over top of some other nightclub.

Did you have an outdoor deck? Yeah, yeah, an outdoor deck. Oh, shit. What was it called? It was called Harisanasa, which means breathless. That's awesome. But it was— I'm surprised you didn't just call it loose.

Yeah, I was going to call it something crazy, but I said better not. How long did you have that? They were still looking for me. Oh, yeah. Well, you know what? Let's loop back around because we skipped like 15 years there with the whole thing. And then we'll get to how you ended up in Greece and all that because that's wild. And that's another thing.

I've heard a lot of the individual stories in there, but I don't have the full picture of how it came together. So you signed with Murray Gab gabby who i got up behind us right there so he just died five years ago that's right that's murray right there yeah okay name was marty kaplan his birth name was murray gaby changed it from marty cat that's like a simple name to be born with though yeah i don't know why i think he changed it to gabby because when he was boxing they said they didn't want to use a Jewish name. I'm not sure, but that's what I was told. Gabby's not a Jewish name?

I don't know. It sounds Jewish to me. I was going to say. I don't know what he did there. Okay. So you said he was your manager. The Mendoza group and some of the guys in there were your trainers. Yes.

You trained always at Fifth Street. No, not my trainers. They were my managers. Your manager. Trainer was Dwayne Simpson. Dwayne Simpson. That's right. So you were training at Fifth Street Gym your whole career? Yes. You trained always at Fifth Street? No, no, my trainers. They were my managers. Your manager. Trainer was Dwayne Simpson. Dwayne Simpson. That's right. So you were training at Fifth Street Gym your whole career?

Yes. Pretty much? Yes. Okay. How long did you say it was until you had your first fight after you walked in there and met them? Three months. So 90 days they get you out to an event to do.

Right there, right in Miami at the Miami Beach Convention Center. And you had an amateur record, obviously, so now you're a pro. Yeah. And, you know, were you fighting anyone of note? What was the deal with the first fight? No, the first fight, the guy was somebody who fought there before. He was 1-0, and I fought him, and then I knocked him out. And how many rounds was the fight supposed to be?

Four. Okay. So you have to, and that's what you were explaining on the amateur circuit, you were explaining like the sub-novice, novice, and the rounds, but then pro. With pros, you start out at four rounds, then you go to six.

At what fight? Maybe after three or four, you go to six. You maybe have one or two, maybe three at six. It's all according to how you do then you go to eight and maybe you have two at eight and then you go to ten got it do they do do they do 12 round yeah they do because they're fighting fury 10 rounds or main event fights yeah until you get a championship fight which is 12. So it's only championship fights that are 12? Only championship fights. That I didn't know.

Okay. And then they're all three-minute rounds in pro, period. Three-minute, one-minute reps. So you do your first fight, you do four rounds, you knock the guy out in what round? First. Oh. Quick work. So then how many fights did you end up doing your whole career?

I think 26, 27. And over how many years was that? I stopped in 80-something. This got me up there. Yeah, let's see. Let's pull you up. This, by the way, this is an all-time picture. I'm going to put this in the corner so people can see it.

What year is that? That's the year. The first day I walked in the gym. Remember I told you I put the mitts on? That was the first day. Those are the mitts. They took that picture that day. Yeah, that day they took the picture of me exactly that's hysterical you look like you're

ready to murder somebody in that picture that's like i would look at you and i'd be like all right that that's boxer 100 like you just look you look like the kind of thing where it's like that doesn't happen anymore like we don't see people like that go at all like they do more important things they do something else i don't happen anymore like we don't see people like that go at all like they do more important things they do something else i don't know but like this you know back then especially it was like god damn you were a pro boxer in the heavyweight division you were the biggest thing on planet earth it's just it was such a it was like the center of culture oh it was in miami it was unbelievable you go to restaurants you can't pay a. I used to get mad because where I come from,

I always paid the check. I don't care if I'm with my friends or not. I was the one that always picked up the check. I'm going to Miami and I'm going out and I want to eat. I go to a restaurant and they say, no check. I go, what do you mean no check? Tell the owner to come here. I go, what are you talking about? He goes, no, Lou, you're my guest.

I was not used to that. I go to Miami Highline. We're having dinner. We're watching the highlight. The highlight game? Like the sport? The highlight, the sport. We're going to the highlight, and they announce my name,

and I have to stand up and bow, and then everything's free. I mean, I was like the king of Miami. It was so weird. And who was – so Ali was training down there. Who else was training in that gym during those years rodney bobik uh mike rossman anybody who was anybody duran everybody was there anybody who was anybody was there everybody was in there and if there were heavyweights i probably sparred with them because they wanted me they used me to work with a lot of the guys that came in. Yeah, and I'm looking at your record here.

It doesn't look like you liked going the distance too much. No. Yeah, you like some quick work there. Yeah. So you start off your career with five straight knockouts, only one that was a called knockout. The others were just straight-up knockouts. This is Hydro Lacey.

See him, number three? Yeah. That's Lacey. Eddie Lacey? Left hook Lacey. See him, number three? Yeah. That's Lacey. Eddie Lacey? Left hook Lacey's father. Oh. Remember Eddie Lacey, the football player? Yeah.

Who was like way too big? Yeah. I was wondering if it was his dad. That's funny. Hydro Lacey, number three. So you knocked him out. How many rounds were these going? Like the first three?

One round. They were all one round. Yeah, one round. You're not going to do that in the first round. And then first L was what what like almost a year in first l was in uh in the capital center in landover maryland i'll leave for jimmy young i was on the other car yes well i got an abscess tooth i'm not supposed to fight but my mother's in the hospital what's an abscessed tooth again? when your tooth is infected

and your jaw gets real big it gets a big infection I'm not supposed to fight the dentist tells me I'm going to take that out you're going to take some antibiotics for a couple days and then it goes down then I'll take it out I said okay

well I'm taking the antibiotics and the fight i said okay well i'm taking antibiotics and the fight comes up i go i'm taking the fight i was telling my mother i was on the phone with my mother when it came when it came through what kind of money is in a fight like that undercard with ali i think it was 5 000 or 10 000 something like that it wasn't. So, he was a four-rounder. So, I, I don't say nothing about the abscess to nobody,

not to Angelo, not to Dwayne, not to Ferdy Pacheco, nobody. I don't say nothing. So, we go to Landover. Way in,

the guy sees me, you know, I see him, no problem. Guy goes, see you later. I said, okay,

so I know, you know, I think the guy, I got this guy, he's scared to death. Get in the ring. No, go get a check by the doctor. The doctor grabs the abscess. He goes, how you feeling? I go, oh, great, great. Everything's good. So I can't say nothing because my mother's going to be watching. She's in the hospital. I don't want to lose the fight, so I just take it. So I go in, get dressed, get in the ring, put the mouthpiece in, the bell rings. I go running across the ring, and I beat this guy, Bump Kelly.

I beat him. When I say beat, I don't know how he made it back. They dragged him back to the corner after the bell rang. So your strategy was just get this guy down as soon as possible. Just get rid of this guy as quick as possible. How he made it back to the corner, the bell rang. So your strategy was just get this guy down as soon as possible. Just get rid of this guy as quick as possible. How he made it back to the corner, I have no idea. They pushed him out for the second round, and I beat him again. Beat him to death.

I go back to the corner. I go, what's wrong with you? I go, what do you mean? They go, settle down. I go, I want to kill this guy. So I go back out there and boom, boom, boom, second round. Third round, same thing. I mean, they're looking at me and go, we don't know how he's standing up.

You hit him with everything. I go, maybe my punches aren't that strong. They go, that ain't it. Look at him. He was all beat up. Third and fourth round comes. Last round. Last round.

I'm punching the guy into the corner. I never went four rounds before. Never. I'm one round. I'm one, two rounds i've won trying to picture you pissed off like this fucking guy so i jab him into the corner and i hit him a good jab and he goes into the ropes and he comes off the ropes with his hands up and i turn my head and he hits me in the abscess with my mouth i had a big mouthpiece i swallowed all the poison

now i'm all hyperventilated because it's the fourth round. My heart's beating 100 miles an hour, and the poison goes all through me. So I turn around to face him. Can you die from that? No, you just get fucked up. So I open my eyes, and there's nine of them. Oh, shit. So I throw a jab, boom, and he's over there the referee goes lou are you all right

i go yeah he goes oh okay box so boom boom boom we're boxing now i'm saying to myself i gotta wait till he comes in or else i'm gonna think he's over there over there i don't know where the fuck he is so he comes in to hit me. I hit him with a body shot, and he goes down. Referee pushes me back. They count. He gets up. I come back out. Now he's getting some type of, he must have done something. He must not be able to take a punch because I hit him once,

and he doesn't know that I swallowed the poison. So boom, boom, boom, we start going at it again. He steps back, and I go, I throw a combination, and he's over there again. The referee stops the fight. He looks at me. He goes, Lou, how I go, I throw a combination, and he's over there again. The referee stops the fight. He looks at me. He goes, Lou, how many fingers do I got up? He did me a favor.

He went like this. If he didn't do this. You just said like 35. All right. If he would have went like that, I have no fucking clue. He went like this, and I said eight. He said, okay, start. And the guy started walking towards me, and I threw a combination again, and he was over there, and the referee stopped the fight. He towards me and i threw a combination again and he

was over there and referee stopped the fight he goes i can't do it no more you're you're throwing punches he's not even near you that's that's got to be there was six seconds left in the fight that's got to be crazy to watch like if you're in the audience and you're like wait this guy was just beat why is he what the fuck is going on knew. So now I go back to the corner. I said, my tooth is killing me. So Ferdie goes, oh my God, he unnaps his tooth. I go, I swallowed the poison. So now he goes, look, my eyes were all messed up. So Ferdie Pacheco looks at Dundee and he goes, he's hurting.

I open my mouth. He goes, oh my God, the tooth is cracked. It was cracked. You could see a cracked tooth open. So he goes, the tooth's cracked. He goes, oh my God, the tooth is cracked. It was cracked. You could see a cracked tooth open. So he goes, the tooth's cracked. He goes, I'm going to give him a shot of morphine. I never took nothing in my life, drugs. So he hits me right there at ringside with morphine.

Now I'm sitting there going. You're like falling off the chair. I'm ready to go out. So Purdy Pacheco goes, we got to take him back to the room right now because I was in a suite, two-bedroom suite. Ali was in one room. I was in the other.

You got to take him back to the hotel. You're staying in the same? The same suite as Ali, yeah. All right, we'll get there. We're the same people. So they take me back to the room, put me in the bed. Pacheco goes, if you need more morphine. I go, I don't need nothing.

I can feel. I don't feel nothing. So I pulled him. I went right out. Ali beats Jimmy Young in a controversial decision. What do you mean it was controversial? They thought that Jimmy Young won the fight, but Ali got the decision. So they come back to the hotel, and somebody calls in a bomb scare.

So they empty the hotel. Now I'm on the bed, laying there in the bed in the room. Fucked up on morphine. I wake up. Oh. Oh. I wake up. I go to the window.

I hear a lot of noise out there. I open the shades. The whole hotel, plus fire engines, police are out there. What the? I look at that. I go, what the? They go, oh, my God. We forgot Louie,

they run upstairs, the firemen run upstairs, they put me on, I go, wait, let me put my clothes on, I put on a running suit, and they,

they ran, oh God, they run me out of the place, they run me out of the place, but there was no bomb, we all went back in, and we left the next morning, I'm on the plane,

I'm on the plane, I'm in a wheelchair, I'm like, I'm just coming off the next morning. I'm on the plane. I'm on the plane. I'm in a wheelchair. I'm like, it's coming off the morphine. I'm like, ugh. I'm all messed up from the morphine. I never did that in my life. I never did no drugs. And here I am going, oh, my God.

I get off the plane. My wife's waiting for me. What happened? They go, oh, my God, his tooth. They told her what happened. My wife takes me from the plane calls her mother, her mother comes to her house and she takes me to a natural

she's a all natural she's an all natural she's an all natural nutritionist and all that stuff she's into all natural stuff gave me a box, huge box of vitamins I would take every day I liked it, but

she was not about being all natural. She took me to an all natural dentist. I have no clue what the hell an all natural dentist is. So we get there, and I open my mouth, and I'm in the chair, and the guy goes, they strapped me in. I'm like, what do you strap me in for? They go,

we got a little thing. He goes, which tooth? I go, I'm pointing it. I open my mouth. He goes, oh, I see it. Grabs it and pulls it right out. No drugs in it. No anesthesia, no letting it pull that. And he goes, I don't get drugs.

I'm all natural. I get a blood coming out of my mouth. They got me locked in. I go, get me out of here. I told my wife, let's go. I wanted to kill him. Let's go. Let's go. Oh wanted to kill him. Let's go. Let's go.

So we left there. My blood running down my mouth. She goes, you should have rinsed your mouth. I ain't doing nothing. I got the nutty, pulled my tooth out, and he gave me a needle nut then. But yeah, that's what happened. I couldn't believe it. But that was my first loss.

It was devastating. I never thought. But that's what happens you know stupid shit happens well how long did you have to wait for the next fight actually

I can look right behind you yeah three weeks three weeks three weeks to stew on it and Dundee said we gotta sell more tickets

oh my god he didn't care and you won again yeah so then cause you were rolling for a long time win win win win win win win yeah I got about 18 or 11 He didn't care. And you won again. Yeah. So then, because you were rolling for a long time.

Win, win, win, win, win, win, win. Yeah, about 18 or 11, 12, maybe 14 in a row. And goddamn, your career was like, you're not kidding. You were fighting all the time. So you start in July 22nd, 75 debut. And then your final record was you had 26 total fights so by the time you had your 20th fight in july 77 so in two years just under two years you fought 20 times and then that's where it started spread out and from 77 to 81 you only had six and this is where you started losing so what what were you just punch drunk like what was the no i was just tired i was just i i you know i didn't

feel what's better than a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue a well marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an instacart shopper and delivered to your door a well marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. I don't like fighting anymore. You know, I was living in Miami.

I met some really nice people. I was making good money. You know, you're making money. You don't want to do it anymore. I was living in Miami. I met some really nice people. I was making good money. You know, you're making money. You don't want to do it anymore. When I would turn pro, there was about 7,500 pros in America. 7,500. Today it's maybe 2,000.

There's only 2,000 pros? Probably 2,000 pros in this country. How many in the world? Not too much more. Like times 10 kind of deal? No, no way to do that. That's not a ton. Maybe 4,000 total all over the world.

There's not a lot, and only 2% of them make it. Make money. Yeah, yeah. That even seems high, though. Make money, make $10,000 for a fight. it. Make money. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're talking about... That even seems high, though. Make money, make $10,000 for a fight. That's not money. It's better than nothing, but yeah, I know what you mean.

Yeah, you know, talking about $10,000, by the time you get six weeks in, six weeks, eight weeks of training, your food, your supplements, massages, you know, you have to pay for trainers, for trainers, strength and conditioning, and all that. By the time that all comes out, what do you come up with? Maybe $2,500, $3,500 in your pocket? Yeah, in the fight game, there's hands everywhere. Look at MMA. Look at MMA. It's scary.

You fight MMA, you fight for tickets. Whatever tickets you sell is what you make even in the ufc though like these guys don't get nothing compared to fighters they get a really small percentage compared to boxing now there's so looking at this two ways this is interesting to talk about too i'd love your thoughts on this. On the one hand, Dana White very much invented that sport in the public eye. It was a sport, obviously, but he made it a thing. He made it like, oh my god, it's the UFC. We're going to watch it. So from a business perspective, he's also the face.

The fighters are the draw but he put it all together and like they're they're not the only game in town but they're the only big big game in town like bellator is there's a few others that are solid but they're they're not the ufc so the brand ability power of being in the ufc you can have way more upside on total purse to make however the fighters as i, are the draw. And I don't have the percentages in front of me, so I don't want to say them, but it's low. They make a very low percentage of the deal here. So even if I think that relative to other sports or even like boxing, yeah, a guy like Dana White and the UFC itself should take a bigger cut than you'd get in boxing or something like that

fine i may think that the cut the numbers i've heard and i will look them up the numbers i've heard it's ridiculous it's like scary it's not right astronomical it's not right and these guys are out there and they're getting elbowed and hit with elbows in the back of the head uh knees come on i mean they're risking their life they're wearing four ounce gloves to hit you if i hit somebody with a four ounce glove i'll kill them it's it when i watch it's it's one of those sports i do watch it i'm a i'm a casual fan yeah yeah me too but like it's hard what like when you see someone's face go dead because they've been knocked out with that shot and the ref you know he's eight feet away and he's throwing more punches.

But he could be like eight feet away. And that dude who's knocking him out while the motherfuckers in the air about to hit the mat. Boom, he's down on the mat and hitting him in the head like with the thing where they do it like this where they hit him like with the open palm and shit or like with the yeah, with the hammer. And like every time I go see that I got to turn. Because there's a dead defenseless head on the ground. And the dude's just doing his job because it hasn't been called. And boom, boom, boom. Like every time. You better.

Because if you don't, he gets up. That's what I'm saying. But it's like how do you not die? I mean some do. And they say boxing is barbaric. Not like that. Give me a break. Will you please watch the two sports?

It's not even close. No, it's nowhere near close. And the boxing reps are all over it. And you know what? That's one thing. No matter what sport it is, as long as you have good people in the ring with them, the third man in the ring,

if he's a good person and he knows his sport, you're going to be okay. As long as you trust that guy in the ring with you, you're okay. It's just when you have guys trust that guy in the ring with you you're okay. When you have guys that are new and don't know what they're doing, people can get hurt in any sport. That's what scares me though at the lower levels, what you were talking about earlier

with the whole USA boxing and guys can just become refs. I know when I'm watching a pro fight, chances are that ref's probably pretty good. Been around, done a few things, been on TV. But refs don't have nothing to do with the scoring in a pro fight. No, but I'm saying like the guy in the ring there, though, like that's the person who breaks him up.

That's the person who calls someone seeing 12 fingers. To save your life. Yes. You know, it doesn't make me feel good about the lower ranks when people are coming up and you could have Joe fucking Blow in there. It's a scary thing. But to your point, it's not like the UFC is a different animal.

Yes. It's insane. I didn't like it because of the way the elbows and knees and things like that, but you know what? It's another sport I give everybody to do. Enjoy. You like it, have fun. I train a lot of guys, what they call their standup, we call boxing. They call striking, we call it boxing. I teach a lot of the MMA guys their boxing. I help them out. How much overlap is there for real? This is a conversation I'll have with people sometimes,

and I don't feel at all qualified to have it as you know i know what i know it's minimal and i know that they're just to the eye there's a way different skill set to the striking to me tell me if i'm wrong in ufc than boxing because you have to be number one much more aware of the space and much more aware of that person's ability to close the space with things that aren't their hands right like a leg can come out of nowhere exactly so like the approach is different that's why it was so impressive when mcgregor did what he did and when it fought mayweather but like how much is the basis of it like the basics of where your feet are how you lead with a jab how you come in with the hook how much of that is like overlap with boxing well uh in boxing you want to be less of a target so

you're trying what we call what i call stand skinny you stand skinny so you're less of a target okay in mma you have to use your leg when you say stand skinny you're saying you like kind of turn a little bit more angle i'm a little yeah it's the way you are now you're not facing this way so that you're what you call squared up yeah you know square you want to be skinny and uh in in mma they're they're kind of they want to use the back leg to kick with you don't ever kick they kick with the front leg a lot they use the front kick but the back leg is the power where they come and they throw it and so they got they have to um they have to stand a little more squared up they're a little more squared so you get that kick off faster carlos used to make me like he trained me boxing and he'd make me train just like basics with with

the kicking end of it and everything i liked it i'm more of a boxing fan but it's an amazing workout the lower body but like i remember the first time he was telling me about like where you'd stand square and how you kick back the leg that you're going to plant with just to get the other leg forward with momentum and i'm hitting the bag and you know i'm a guy in a gym and i'm like holy shit if i hit someone on the chin with that me they're not getting up no they can't you get hit with a foot in the face you're done now think about a pro throwing that with a boulder of a leg fucking rocket ship coming at your chin it's it's scary you know i mean people who know how to throw their feet you gotta you gotta be careful you never know when it's coming did you think that that sport

was going to take off when it's back when it started like kind of coming up no not when it's coming did you think that that sport was going to take off when it's back when it started like kind of coming up no not when it first took off no i didn't think but it um dana wayne knows how to market he does yeah he's a marketing genius can't take nothing from him but he does screw those guys i mean i don't you know dana i hope you're listening but you you got to give those guys more money i mean mean, if you sign with the UFC, and let's say you sign with Nike, Nike comes to you and says, we want you to wear our stuff. We want to sponsor you. He gets 10%. If you're wearing it outside of UFC sanctioned events.

Whatever you sign with Nike, he gets 10%. That one I have less of a problem with. I have a problem with it because of the amount he takes on the events because these guys can't fight more than a couple times a year because it's fucking insane the type of fighting they do. So they get a chance to get a, and that's when they have their attention for a quick moment. They get their chance to get out there and make money.

That's where I have an issue where he's taken a lot of that. So because he takes a lot of that i have an issue with that 10 if he paid them fairly in the fight i'd understand that because he's basically giving them the biggest fucking brand in the world and there's nothing like it okay you're 100 right but they get paid so little that's what i'm saying that's why i have an issue issue with it. It's not fair. A guy goes out there, take his life in his hands, and get paid peanuts. It's just not right. And, you know, the events make a ton of money. Usually full.

I've never seen one of them not full. And how much are the pay-per-views now? Pay-per-views, it's all according to who it is. They go from 70, from 45 to 90. Yeah, and it's quick people just they hit a button on this you know you don't see the money go it's like a subscription service you don't see the money go out so it's like ah fuck it i'll buy it it's it's a great business model but you're starting to hear more noise now yeah from people inside and outside the sport like this motherfucker doesn't pay. That's going to...

Oh, yeah. That's going to come up. It's going to bite him in the ass. If he doesn't start... Who's going to want to keep fighting for him? Go to Bellator. They're paying better. Bellator pays a lot better than UFC.

So that's why those guys, most of the guys you see that they say they come to the end of their career in the UFC, go to Bellator. They're going there because they want to make money. But in your career, just to go back to that, you were saying that you didn't have it in you after a couple years there. Because, I mean, you only had one loss, and it was the one loss you told me about. You were 19-0.

But then it started to go off the rails a little bit. But did you say you were doing something else? Yeah, I had a couple of car washers in Miami. I was investing money that I would make on the fights. And I was doing real good. I invested. My ex-wife opened up something called Jolie, which was a clothing line for children.

And our kids were the models. She would do line for children and our kids were the models she would do a show fashion shows and the kids were the models and the kids classmates were the models and it was good it was a nice thing she was selling clothes and designer clothes for kids she was designing everything and we get it made and then have a show and sell them the Bloomingomingdales and Saks and all that stuff. So you got the business bug. She got it, yeah. She wanted to do something.

But you kind of got it too. Yeah, yeah. I wanted to do something also. I mean, you know, getting up at 5 a.m. wasn't making it after two years, you know what I mean? I broke my ass. I did everything. Like you said, at the time I was 19 and 1 or 20 and 1.

And I was done, you know. Okay, I'm done. mean you know it's ranked and i don't need i don't need this no more i could you know that's what happens you know you think you don't need it no more when you don't when you don't think you need it then just get out of the ring don't get in that ring because uh it's not going to be good yeah i heard someone recently talking about that some old fighter i can't remember what it was or who it was, but they were explaining the same thing where it's like – and Dubs actually had a line when he train in silk pajamas there's a thing that happens where you know you start making a lot of money doing well you're also it's a rough sport you do it so many times you did 20 fights in two years you're training at fifth street gym training with the best in the world like in your case

there's so many different things going on every day it's full time and then you know you're the guy around town like you said and now it's like oh i'm not gonna i'm not gonna train three a day tomorrow for this like oh you know what fuck it i'll go in there i'll i'll just do what i do and i'll knock someone out in the first round see what happens and what the guy i was listening to i wish i remember who it was but he was saying like your training might have the same amount of time in it but it doesn't have the same energy and when it doesn't have the same energy. And when it doesn't have the same energy, the result is never the same. The hunger.

You're not hungry anymore. You're not hungry. You make money. Like you said, it's harder to get up at 4 a.m. in your silk pajamas. Nobody wants to get up. And I can't blame anybody. But after you get that first million-dollar gate, you got a million-dollar fight,

and you're putting a couple hundred thousand in the bank. You know, you get any car you want, any girl you want. You go buy a house. You know, it's a different thing. Oh, my God. You got to say to yourself, if I want to keep this stuff, I got to keep training like I'm doing. A lot of guys don't do it.

They just can't do it did you recognize that yeah i recognized it but at the time uh at the time when i was talking about when i was younger things were different it was a lot of money being made in miami a lot of different money not just legit i was making crazy money so i i didn't need boxing. Oh, did you get into that business? Yeah, I got into it. Everybody did. If you lived in Miami, you didn't have a choice. Kids walking down the street with a cart, you know,

pulling a little wagon with a 50-pound bale of weed in it. I love this topic. You just walked into a bear trap. I love the whole, like, how Miami just exploded, and then it was all just was insane it wasn't most of the money coming through there even to this day it's not legit money it's it's crazy miami down miami now in miami the difference is uh heroin and fentanyl have made a big not everywhere it's so sad it's sad but but heroin is the big thing down there

and then fentanyl now because they don't even use heroin anymore they take a you know take an ounce of fentanyl cut it 35 times and sell it for 3 000 an ounce and it's so cheap for them to make it they're all they're doing it in in china yeah they're putting it through here mexico and then they're here exactly crazy crazy so To Mexico and then here. Exactly. Crazy, crazy. So back then, I mean, were you like in the cocaine trade? Like what was there? I never saw cocaine.

I moved to Miami. I was not involved in drugs. My father was a wise guy. He was involved in all that. But I never saw it. Never was involved, never did anything. Oh, your dad was connected. Yeah, yeah.

So my father was a numbers guy. He did the numbers all over Patterson and Passaic County, Morris County, Passaic County, North Jersey. He did all the numbers. He did really big. You didn't want to get into that, though? I was doing my own thing. I wasn't, you know.

But, yeah, cocaine in Miami. I was working at my night, they got me a job at a nightclub. One of the Mendoza group owned a nightclub in Coconut Grove called the Widow McCoys. And Widow McCoys is a cool club. All the young Cuban girls would come there and dance. They were beautiful, man. A difference. Back when I was a kid, when I was over at the Winne-McCoy's,

the girls in New Jersey all wore blue jeans, had long hair, and were smoking weed. That's all they did. Blue jeans. Girls in Miami were a little different. Girls in Miami had one-shouldered dresses with slits up the side, high heels, lipstick, polished nails.

Ripping lines of blow-off a spoon. They were hot. They were hot, man. The girls were ripped. I mean, I was like, whoa, man, whoa. And it was beautiful. It was really nice. And then this kid comes to the Wooden McCoys one night,

and he pulls in a brand new 450SL convertible, gets out of the car. He's got a thick gold chain on with a big medallion with diamonds. He's got a Rolex watch on with diamonds. And I go, hey, your father and mother take care of you, right? My father and mother take care of me. I just bought my father and mother a house. And I gave my mother a car and my father a truck. I go, yeah, how'd you do that?

He throws me a box, a box of matches from our club. He goes, open it. I open it up, and it was cocaine. He goes, that's a gram of matches from our club he goes open it i open it up and it was cocaine he goes that's a gram of coke i sell these here i i sell maybe 25 30 in a night i sell them for 50 oh so he was he was a salesman like he wasn't even a distributor just a salesman making crazy money i'll bet he was selling he was selling he said i sell five to seven ounces in your club every week so you figure it out yeah he goes i'm making crazy money now how much was he kicking back to the owners to the owner of the clubs yeah nothing yeah no you don't

care they didn't know about it no they didn't know so i said well you're done here he goes oh come on no you're going to give it to me yeah now there's a price so he goes oh man i go just sell me the ounce and i'll do it so that's what we started doing because he used to come to my fights too so he knew who i was so i started doing it i give the bartender the package and we'd sell every night i may make a ton of money i'll make it 20 i'll make it 1500 at the door i was charging three dollars to get in three1,500 at the door. I was charging $3 to get in. $3 to get in at the door. Just to you. Yeah, there's no charge. The owner of the place told me when I got the job, he says,

Lou, listen, I'm going to let you manage the place. You be the bouncer and the manager. Oh, my God. He goes, but I want you to lose money. I don't want to win money. This is my lost leader. This is where my taxes, I pay my taxes through this place because we're going to lose money.

I said, I could do that. So I started charging at the door and keeping the money. And I started selling. I brought in Shevitz Regal. What does that do for him? Nothing. It does nothing. He don't want nothing.

So I bring in four bottles of Shevitz Regal. The Cubans call it Chivas. Chivas Regal. Chivas on the rocks. So I would bring in four bottles of Shevitz Regal The Cubans call it Chivas. Chivas on the rocks. So I would bring in four bottles of Chivas Regal and put a red line on it and tell the boy to put that money in a different box. So he would pour it from my bottles every night into the box, and then I'd give him some money out of that, and I'd keep the rest.

But I was making crazy money then. I mean, I was making crazy-ass I mean I was making crazy ass money and it was great it was off the hook when did they get you that job? like right away? no no about a month into me training

okay so while you were a pro you were doing this too yeah I was working at night as a manager of a nightclub no shit how long did you do that for? two, three years

wow two years so then you come up on the end of your career your wife's got the business you were invested in car washes and stuff i had a car wash on biscayne boulevard go in and launder money just saying yeah but i was also doing the coke business you know yeah like weed marijuana the boats would come off the off the shore dump it in the water and you go out with your boats and pick them up and bring back the bales have you ever seen the cocaine cowboys documentary oh yes i know so like mickey monday and all that i know all those guys that's hilarious

yeah they were all they were they were pilots they were making big money boy they made crazy ass money i was so happy for them so were you got were you taking the boat out there and picking it up? Yeah I had a Donzie with a 302 Chevy engine in it I used to fly out Grab 4, 5, 6 bales, come back And they pay you there, they pay you at the shore They give you the bales, they give you the money Go back out and get another Who would pay you at the shore?

The people who owned the weed They put it on the trucks Oh so you would In addition to doing what you were doing, you would also just be the gopher to go out and actually get it. Just go get it and bring it back. And you get paid to go get it and bring it back. Yeah, they pay everybody. They have a bunch of people there in boats going out and picking it up.

So you never have to sell it. You're talking about a big ship coming, just throwing bales in the water, and you guys pick them up, throw them in your boat, bring them back to shore. You have to take at least four. I used to take six. Give them the six and they pay you but i have my wife or a friend of mine sitting in the car pay them and i go back out again go in and out so this part of the business you weren't even selling anything you were just going to pick it up and how often did you do that and then when it got into sure after after you got everything off and they took it to a warehouse you want to

go and pick up bales you could buy them you want bales there and then price it out and yeah so i used to bring mine back to jersey because that's where you get the most money you buy it in miami for you'll buy dirt weed in miami for 60 was this was this always was this weed and coke or was it no weed and coke it was both yeah so they drop it off because they would do it what's that called in miami there was like the hotel or the the apartment building on the corner where they'd have the people in binoculars watching you know i'm talking about like where keep this game yeah i think that's it yeah so then they they would dump it like three four miles out and you were one of the guys who would go get it yeah and bring it back yeah now how many days a week were you doing that oh no not weeks it was once

a month or twice a month that's it okay you get fifteen thousand dollars go out and pick it up fifteen thousand dollars to go pick it up off the ocean and bring it back and every day every trip you get fifteen thousand now how did you what was the system they had they had tracking devices on it on the weed yeah no what like how did you not that time so how did you identify where it was it's right there the ship's right there they're throwing in the water oh so they wait till you get there no they don't wait they're throwing it in as soon as they get there they're throwing it in you they're they're looking for people with boats to go out there and get it the drug dealers go get it go get it go get it yeah i usually i knew all the drug dealers i knew

the people from being in the clubs so they would ask me you got a boat I go yeah I got a boat they go you want to make some money yeah I want to make some money okay here's what you got to do and I said let's go and that's when I started going all right so let me understand this they're flying in the plane maybe they're coming from the Bahamas at this point because they would start in Colombia and then they fly the Bahamas I forget did they drop off stuff there too yeah okay so yeah they dropped off stuff there then they'd come from the bahamas and shoot west directly towards miami so when they go to take off it's whatever it is like a 15 minute flight whatever

it is they're taking off in the bahamas and they're going to be there so if there's not a boat out there they're still dumping it yeah Yeah, of course. So how long would the boat... They come in ships, too. I'm sure. Marijuana usually came in a ship. Coke came in a plane. So the boat would just dump it? Dump the bales right off.

They keep throwing the bales off. What was the longest time it was sitting there before you got there? Sometimes 20 minutes. How did you know where it was going to be? It's a fucking ocean. They tell you right where it's going. But it's an ocean. There's a big ship there. A big giant ship. I know ship i know but then you got a container ship there's waves and shit

like it's gonna float away no no it's not like no waves there's no waves like that no it's right there i shouldn't say waves there's like currents though no it's not that bad they believe they know what they're doing if the ship's right there the stuff they throw in the water it's an actual actual big circle of it. And it's right there. How heavy was like? 40-pound bales. I grabbed one bale, throw it in the truck, another one, throw it in the back.

I just kept throwing one hand on the wheel, grabbing the bales and throwing them in. And then I turned the boat around, go in. Pick up my money and go back and get another one. Sometimes you can make five trips before the Coast Guard comes. So they would dump them in heats. They would do like one, circle, come back around, do another. Unless the Coast Guard saw the big ship and saw them circling, then they'd have to go. They'd have to get out.

How many was the most they'd do, six? You were saying? Maybe five, six. So what's that, like three, four hours of work to do five, six? A lot. One is two hours of work. See, that's why I said you got to get lucky because if the Coast Guard comes, if the Coast Guard comes, you got to go.

I had a 35-foot cigarette. I mean, I had an 18-foot cigarette with a 302 Chevy engine in it. So I used to hit that. How fast could that go? It was 75 on the water. But it was only three miles out. It took you two hours to trip? No, it was not three miles out. Less than that.

How far out was it? Maybe a mile and a half. So how's it taking two hours to trip? Two hours. Who said two hours? You were saying. I said two hours for all the boat to get rid of whatever they dropped in the water. And then you come back in.

Wait, wait. Two hours of going back and forth. Right. Okay, okay. Totally, you're saying. Yes. And that includes, like, the drop-off and everything. Two hours of picking up, dropping off, picking up, dropping off, picking up, dropping off.

As much as you can before the Coast Guard comes. Not that they, like... Because saltwater spoils coke especially i mean it spoils everything but it spoils coke completely oh no their coke's wrapped so how would they do coke would be in like 20 kilo packages or 40 kilo cat packages big packages now what would they what would they wrap it in well the individual kilos wrapped in plastic right and then what else the big things like a rubber like a rubber thing though it floats it would just float the stuff would just float a big package of float you pull it in the boat

take off now they put like any i guess they don't need to because it already weighs 40 pounds but was there anything to like kind of because i'm still trying to picture this like keep it in the same area because if i dump if i'm a mile off right and it's the atlantic ocean and i dump something there's 40 pounds 50 pounds whatever it is if it's if i let 20 minutes go by it could be a half a mile that way maybe not a half a mile they know what they're doing there's no current is they're right there it's right's current. Right there. It's right there. When we pull out there, they're right there. Right there in front of you. You can't miss them. They're right there.

Now, were you doing... I imagine you're doing a check as you're going out. Like, do I see any Coast Guard boats? Oh, no. You've got to take a look because the Coast Guard comes. The Coast Guard usually, before they caught on, they had the big light in the front. So, you see, they got that big light. Wait, are you doing this at night?

Yeah. Always at night? Yeah. Always at night? Yeah, always at night. I guess that makes sense because you can see the fucking plane during the day. I mean, see the big ship out there. What the fuck is he doing? You know those planes that fly by the beach with the sign on them? You just see one of those flying by like, oh, what's that coming out the back?

See a boat come right there. Funny, I'm coming home from the port of miami one day i'm on uh i'm on the airport expressway and i'm in traffic and i see this dc9 low flying over south miami i go and had the side door open i go that motherfucker he's, he's going to drop stuff. He's dropping. He's dropping. So I shoot out of traffic. I go all the way back down, and I'm following the plane. He's throwing stuff out of the plane because the police are yelling to him in the cars, you know, land that plane, land that plane. So he's throwing all the coke out of the plane and it's hitting houses and busting and

one guy's outside he's watering his lawn and he and the kilo hits his shirt and it's all over the coke busted the guy goes what the fuck is that and i'm going i'm going yo don't worry i'll clean it up now i'm calling the police i said don't do that don't do that let me clean it up you're out there with a fucking dustpan. I'm trying to clean it up. Shut up. Leave it alone. The guy wouldn't let me.

Oh, my God. No, the guy would call the cops. He wouldn't let you on the property. He called the cops. Oh, my God. It was like 40, 50 kilos. Maybe one broke, and it's all over the place. And he got mad as shit.

I go, leave it alone. It's cocaine. Don't worry about it. He goes, no goes no no i'm calling the police i go or whatever oh my god idiot we can make we can make a hundred thousand right now did you yeah at least i mean he taught you could be talking millions depending on how much drop yeah so let it go i'll get rid of it we'll make a ton of money he goes no no no get out of here get out of here you didn't see it that way. But did you deal with the Colombians?

Oh, yeah. I usually deal with the Cubans. The Cubans, there was like three or four Cubans that dealt with the Colombians. Now, what was it? They actually just did a documentary on this, and I watched some of it, but it's on Netflix. They did a documentary on, I think they were cousins they were at least friends sal and what the hell was the other guy's name sal and willie willie falcone and and sal willie falcone and sal magaloda or maglota something like that so they were the cubans who in the 80s were like

the guys yes they were getting the coke from the Colombians. Did you deal with those guys? Yeah, I knew them. I knew people who were with them, and I dealt with them. Met them at the clubs. I met them. I got to walk in the club because of who I was boxing and everything like that, so I just walked right in. Damn.

So towards the end of your career, that's when you were getting losses because you weren't into it anymore because you were doing this yeah making money crazy money so what like did you have a conversation with dundee no no i didn't they didn't know what i was doing no no not obviously i would assume they're not knowing that but was there like you know you're 19-0 and one or you're 19-1 with the one loss being like an aberration. And then suddenly you lose a couple fights. And then I'm seeing they're giving you less fights after that.

Like, is that a conversation that starts to happen? Like, hey, you don't have it anymore? What's wrong with you? No, no, no. They said to me, yeah, what's up, Lou? You want to fight? You don't seem like you want this. I said, ah, you know, just so busy.

So busy. They said, no, you're not supposed to be busy. This is your fight. This is your life. You're supposed to be doing this. And they wanted me to come, you know, get back into it and try harder. But I was married and, you know, my wife was pregnant. And I promised her when she got pregnant I would retire. So that was another thing.

She was bugging me about, you know, I don't want you talking to an interpreter to the kids so i said that's not gonna happen i'm a pitcher not a catcher and she said no no i don't want i don't want nothing to happen to you so that's in your head a little bit i mean did you ever feel like you ever feel hazy no i mean you get punched a good shot you know but nothing where you're hurt like you know you weren't letting people punch you too much either i was trying not to yeah i mean it's just not i mean if people go look at your record on box rec knock out knock out knock out knock out knock

everything's a knockout how many times did you even go the distance i think you went the distance in madison square garden yes with rojas and. What's it like fighting in the garden? That's a good question. It's outrageous. You get the willies walking in because it's... You're talking about Madison Square Garden, you know? Yeah. It's the cathedral.

You hear the announcer in the ring as you're coming towards the ring. It's unbelievable. It's great. What a feeling. And that's like your home arena, too. Yeah. Growing up in North Jersey, being right there. Yeah.

And were you an undercard on that one yeah and who was fighting that night um jerry cooney i mean uh yeah jerry cooney oh yeah knocked out um ken norton hit him in the throat i've seen the video of that fight i fought after them i wasn't supposed to fight because the fight was that's like a famous fight that was supposed to be a 12-round fight. So Cooney knocks him out in the first round. Yeah. So they called me. They yelled to me, Lou, you got to fight.

What? The fight's over. I'm dressed. I'm leaving. They go, no, you got to get ready. You got to fight. Damn it. So it wasn't even planned.

Run inside, get dressed real fast. They grab my hands, and I get in the ring. They threw you in the ring with another 250-pound man, unprepared. Both of us were unprepared. First two rounds, that's why the final round went the distance. The first couple rounds, we were just waking back up. He was at the bar drinking, and I was getting ready to go so you didn't like that was like a halfway experience you couldn't really take it in because it's not like you're planning

for the garden then suddenly like up you'll do let's go get in we need you we need you to fill the time for tv get in do you know how many lawsuits there would be today if they let that happen there'd be there'd be a nine figure night all in all i mean like holy shit so that was and that was right before that was when you were still winning everything yeah and then like when did you start doing the the whole mickey monday going out and getting the boats or going out and getting the blow like how long into your boxing career oh about a year and a half a year and a half so right before this. Yeah.

Okay. It kind of makes sense. So you're working. And that's like an all-night job, stuff like that. When you're out in Miami and you're meeting everybody. Yeah. Everybody's making money. And you want to make some money?

They always are. They're asking people, you know, you want to make some money? Who doesn't want to make money? Right. Cash. And what about the greats, though? Like Ali, guys they're getting paid millions I wasn't getting paid right but still the question but you know money is money how much to peer behind the wall here how much of it was they were training all the time 100% exactly like we think about it in pop lore versus they were also having a good fucking time oh yeah they were having a good time and remember boxing when you're going to train for

a fight it's eight weeks you do what you want until the eight weeks comes up you got in those guys though yeah even those guys they praise you and them they know they didn't go crazy crazy but they were they wouldn't they didn't uh bliv, and sleep boxing until it was time. You know? When it was time, then they got down to business and worked hard for eight weeks and got ready for a fight. What was Muhammad Ali like? The best guy in the world.

He was really a good guy. I remember they called me to the spa one day at the Fifth Street Gym. So I'm sitting there, and as I'm sitting there, Pacheco's catching me. And it actually became a Hallmark card, the front of a Hallmark card. It had a picture of me sitting there, and I'm looking down at Sully. Sully's a little old man in the gym, the guy who sweeps the floor and has a big cigar in his mouth. And he's going like this to me.

He's pointing to me. And I'm looking at him with my headgear on, my boxing gloves, my cup, and I'm waiting to go in the ring. And he's giving me instructions. And it says on the top of the card, advice. And he made a lot of money for it. I never got nothing out of it.

Cheap bastard, but what are you going to do? But I get in the ring with Ali. And I'm moving around. He said, I just want you to move around box today, Lou. Just box. So I said, OK. So I'm moving around box, box, box. Go back to Bell Raines.

Go back to the corner. He said, you look good. You look really good. Muhammad Ali looks at you and says, you look good. No, no. The other corner. My corner. OK.

Ali's in his corner. I'm in my corner. He said, you look great today. Wow, what's up? I don't know. Ali's in his corner. I'm in my corner. He said, you look great today. Wow, what's up? I don't know. So bell rings go back out there. Same thing. Moving, moving.

Slipping, you know, a few jabs. I hit him with a couple body shots. Go back to the bell rings. Go back to the corner. They go, wow. Now the people outside the ring are all starting to talk. Oh, this guy's looking whatever. Third round, same thing.

I'm still looking good, they say. I come back to the corner. What the fuck, Lou? I mean, you took that step, man. You hurt him a little bit? No. Neither of us are getting hurt yet, but we're boxing. Fourth round, I jab him into the ropes.

He comes off the ropes, hits me 40 times. Boom, boom, bang. Boom, boom, boom, bang, bang, boom, boom, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. What the fuck? I go, what happened? I jab him into the ropes. He comes off the ropes, hits me 40 times. Ba-da-boom-boom-bang. Boom-boom-boom-ba-ba-boom-boom-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. What the fuck? I go, what happened? He goes, oh, I was thinking. I go, man, go back to thinking. Holy shit.

Go back to thinking. Leave me to, holy shit. He started laughing. Then we started moving around again. And then everybody shut up. How often did you spar Ali? I sparred with him about 25 times. Holy shit.

25, 30. Now, how many rounds would you do of sparring with him? Sometimes two, sometimes four, sometimes three. It's all according to what he wanted. How many other heavyweights were there? He always sparred with different guys. What's it like taking a punch from Ali? He was so fast.

He was just so fast. He had that snap behind his punch. So when you got hit with it, you felt it. But he was just a good fighter. Good guy.

Good guy. Good guy, though. I remember one night I'm fighting, and he comes to my fight. He came to the fight. I just knocked the guy out. So I get out of the ring. I go back to my locker room to get ready

because after every fight, I used to take my wife. We used to go to the Bahamas for two weeks. I could relax in the Bahamas and then come back and get ready for the next fight. But I'm trying to get in my locker, and it's locked. I go, who the hell locked my locker? And I'm pulling. I go, give me a knife.

I can get it open. All of a sudden, the door opens this much. It's Ali. He goes, give me a few minutes. You know, I'm the champ. I said, give me a few minutes. I said, okay. I shut the door.

I sit down, and I'll say, about eight, nine minutes later, so a girl opens the door, walks out, fixing her hair. Ali comes out going, don't forget I'm the champ. I go, oh, my God. Let me get my clothes. Oh, my God. That's unbelievable. He's such a legend in the sense because he's also dead now, which adds something to it because he's not he's such a legend in the sense because you know he's also dead now which adds

something to it because he's not even with us but he stood for so many different things in culture that went beyond boxing you know he just had such a obviously it starts with the whole refusing to go to vietnam and everything which in hindsight i have no beef with them people yeah yeah look it looks like a pretty good which in hindsight i have no beef with them people yeah yeah look it looks like a pretty good decision in hindsight on his part based on what happened with that war but it was so controversial at the time and he was this larger-than-life person too you know he had such a i mean to me he's one of the greatest speakers ever people love to hate him then they just love them they love to hate him in the first when he was

predicting his fights and big mouth and all that stuff. They thought he was a big mouth, but he wasn't. He was a promoter. That's what he was doing. He was promoting the fights. People bought tickets. They wanted to go. That's why I want to see him get beat. They want to see him get beat. He's all, I'm talking Archie Moore will fall in four.

Stuff like that. And people wanted to go see it. And Archie would fall in four, you know, stuff like that. You know, and people wanted to go see it, and Archie would fall in four. I think this is the part that, like, in general, we don't think about enough. And, you know, the casual boxing fan or just anyone who's, like, ever seen a fight is that whole aspect of what goes into driving the fight to get results.

Like, what drives the people who get a chance to contend to be able to get there. Number one, they have to be great. But number two, they got to market. They got to have like controversy. They got to have stuff around them. And he's the guy who to me, I know there were guys doing it effectively before him. But when you look at the story of boxing as a sport and then dragging into UFC and stuff like that and marketing in sports.

He's the guy. He knew how to get, he knew how to say, get that spotlight right here and, and I'm going to earn it. You're going to, you're going to be happy. It's here.

Yeah. Ali, Ali definitely, definitely was a promoter. He knew how to promote the fight. So, you know, it was all beef.

It was all hype, but he knew how to do it. And people wanted to come see him because of that. I mean, look, when Ali fought back in those days, back in the day, like in the early 70s and 80s, he wore his tuxedo to go to a championship fight. Every star was there. Every big movie star, every TV star, all the big politicians,

everybody was at the fights. Today it's different. We got the big politicians. Everybody was at the fights. Today it's different. We got on right now. We go to the fight. I mean, it's different, but it was a big thing. I mean, when I went to Frasier, Ali won. I went with my dad. When was that?

74 or 72. I'll look it up. Go ahead. Ali Frasier won at the Madison Square Garden my father got his ringside seats my father wanted Frazier and I wanted Ali of course Frazier won

but I mean all the people that I saw at the fight Jack Nicholson was there all the star movies the women the female movie stars everybody was there the mayor the governor stuff like that everybody was there, the mayor, the governor, stuff like that was all there, you know what I mean?

Like, wow, look at this. But you don't see that anymore. Not like that. No. But here's the other thing. Like, it was very disappointing to me how, for example, McGregor handled this last fight when he snapped his leg and was on the ground and then you know fucking talking about the other guy's wife and his dms and shit and

i'm not going to support that i just think that's so across the line and it feeds into some of the negativity he gets on his brand but after i'll say that the other thing I'll say is he's a marketer he knows what gets attention people people want to go see him fight yeah you know you know he knows how to beef up a crowd but uh at the same time sometimes he does he's not real smart he lets his mouth work before his brain so I agree so but he I think he's my my takeaway there is that he's sitting on the mat now obviously like he didn't lose that fight per se his leg snapped but he's like holy shit i've now ever since that floyd thing now i've lost like two or three out of four fights

i lost my one before this i'm in here my leg just snapped people are gonna be sitting at home going his career's over i gotta change the narrative right now so while i'm sitting on the mat people aren't gonna remember this they're gonna make fun of my leg and then talk about how i was talking shit on the mat and god damn it they are yeah you know people are asking for his next fight they're not being you know there's still people going like oh he might be done but they're they're tuned in for the next fight. They're waiting to hear. Yeah.

And they got him on the end of their seats. That's what he wants to do. I don't blame, look, I don't blame the guy. How much time does he have left? Don't forget, that sport, you don't have a long life. Yeah, he's been fighting in UFC for like a decade. Yeah, he ain't got a long life. He's got to grab it when he can.

Because like we were talking about a minute ago, he don't got a long life. He's got to grab it when he can. Because like we were talking about a minute ago, he don't make a lot of money. How amazing was that when he made the crossover, though, and fought Floyd? Made $100 million. I mean, yeah, granted, but still. They gave him $100 million. Floyd Mayweather said,

I'm going to give you $100 million. Make $100 million and fight the best fighter in the world. Your first pro fight he looked pretty fucking good though he didn't look bad like and i'm not gonna sit here and be like floyd was going a thousand percent but floyd was floyd and you could see it i don't know what your opinion was and correct me if you think i'm wrong but you could see it like three rounds in where floyd was like oh, shit, this guy can fight. Well, you know, he said he's got stamina.

That's what he thought. He said because usually a guy who never fought before gets in a ring. Now Floyd thinks after the first and second round he's done. Yeah. But he had stamina. He's been in a ring before per se. He's been in an octagon. But he's been in that situation before where he knows he has to last. And he fights five-minute rounds three minute rounds still the fight you

know a lot of the fights they don't go i mean weren't they doing they were doing a 12 round fight yeah no they did eight rounds no i think it was it was at least ten eight rounds i think no because he got eight rounds it was it was a knockout by decision or knock tko and that was in the ninth or tenth round. No, it was only eight rounds. I'm going to check that. It was the seventh round. It was definitely.

Hold on. Because that's a lot of time. It was only an exhibition. It wasn't a fight. Because the Floyd one he just did with Logan Paul was eight rounds. That wasn't 10 or 12. They're all eight rounds. Why am I feeling like I remember this?

How many rounds would this have been? In the 10th round. Look at that. Mayweather defeats McGregor in 10th round. Yeah, this was a special fight they did. So it was scheduled for 12 rounds and recorded the second highest pay-per-view buy rate in history. Yeah, because I remember thinking that. It says that it was recorded for 12 rounds? Yeah, it was supposed to be a 12 round. I remember that. pay-per-view buy rate in history yeah because i remember thinking that like it says they were

scored for 12 rounds yeah it was it was supposed to be a 12 round i remember that he lasted into the 10th round because i remember floyd was starting to turn the fight in like this end of the fifth round scheduled 12 rounds like mcgregor was winning the fight for like four rounds it wasn't by like a fuck ton but he was winning the fight and then flo rounds. It wasn't by like a fuck ton, but he was winning the fight. And then Floyd in the fifth round, you started to see him turn it. Sixth round, like, whoa. Well, what happened was Floyd saw him keep dropping the hand. And then he just threw the right hand over it.

Kept throwing that. So from the fifth round on, he kept hitting him with the right. Kept hitting him with the right. And McGregor couldn't get out of the way. And that was the end of it that was the end now you were you were saying ali is your greatest of all time when you hear people say that floyd is pound for pound the best ever what what do you think of that i i like floyd made weather i think he's one i think he's he's really really great for boxing, the money he makes.

He's another promoter like Ali was. He's probably bigger than Ali because he's making so much more. Talk about a guy who makes almost a billion dollars for a fight. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of money. He's only doing what he loves. And now he's old, and he's still doing it. He didn't look horrible. He's only doing what he loves. And now he's old and he's still doing it. He didn't look horrible.

He didn't look horrible against Logan. No, no. He can still do it. But you're talking about Muhammad Ali who made boxing. There would be no Floyd Mayweather without Ali. Nobody would care. But from an abilities perspective perspective forget the marketing forget all that like pound abilities perspective i'd have to say that mayweather's pound for pound would be

the best and what makes him the best to you like what does he do he's one of the best at not getting hit his defense is off the hook he can make you, stand right in front of you and make you miss. You're throwing punches. He's going like this, making your punches go left, right, left, right. He's really good, and then he can counter. He make you miss and counter. Bang. Make you miss, counter.

Bang. So you're throwing punches, missing, and he's hitting you back. How the hell is he doing that? It looks like some people have complained over time especially because he hypes up the fight so much and then he fights like the casual fan they always are in for it because what happens before the fight but they usually complain after his fights and i'm like you know i i don't pretend to be an expert at boxing i'm not but i know the sport and i'm like dude it's because he's boxing

he's the best boxer you want to see someone knock someone out in the second round that's not what he does that's right that's not what he does the guy from like from my eyes from very very amateur eyes it's like i look at his footwork and then his speed and quickness that you were just alluding to with that footwork and i'm like i'veness that you were just alluding to with that footwork. And I'm like, I've never seen. It's like a dance. It's like watching someone tango for the first time from Cuba. It's from Spam. I get the country wrong.

But wherever it's from. Like, it's unbelievable. Yeah, he's unbelievable. He knows his way around the ring. I mean, you can't take that away from him. He can make you miss and then counter. And that's his big ticket. That's what he wants.

That's what he gets away with. He can make you miss and then counter. So he gets the score. He doesn't have to work hard. He just has to win the fight. Nobody says he has to knock you out like you said. He doesn't have to knock you out. I just have to win the fight.

I'm here to win the fight, that's all. He doesn't have a time. People get mad. People get mad because he doesn't knock people out. That's what I'm saying. Like the average person is just like, he doesn't beat the shit out of anyone. That's not. I mean, he beat.

He beats them up. He beat Pacquiao with his left hand. I think I saw him use his right for real like twice. I mean, it's amazing. He knows how to win the fight. That's what it's about. It's about winning the fight, not about knocking a guy out. I mean, if a amazing. He knows how to win the fight. That's what it's about. It's about winning the fight, not about knocking a guy out. I mean, if a knockout comes, great.

If you hit the guy a good shot and he goes down, great. But that's not the way. He doesn't think of the fight that way. He goes in there to go 12 rounds. If it's 12 rounds, I'm ready. Yeah, I'm looking through his fight history right here. All 50 fights. And there's a lot of TKOs in there, but there's maybe four or five knockouts. That's it.

I mean, he really, that's how he fights. And you think about it, that means after the beginning of his career, he's routinely going 8, 10, and then in a championship fight, 12 rounds. And just the amount of energy that takes to do that and he never he never even looks that gas there's been a couple fights but he's just i never see anything like it i i do agree with your assertion though obviously that no ali no no mayweather. Yeah, there's no boxing. But it's like he's in the conversation for it.

I still look at it and I'm like, I wasn't alive to watch Ali. I was young when Tyson was fighting, but I did see Tyson. I can see tape Ali, seen tape of some others. And it's like, to me, those two, they're the guys. They're the best. And it's also, I'll admit, a part of it is, I understand that you do it by weight class. And so technically you are with your equal. But scientifically speaking, the idea of two Luisa-sized people throwing all their might behind punches at each other, it doesn't matter how big you are.

A head is a head. a chin is a chin you're taking a punch from floyd mayweather or you're taking a punch from muhammad ali that's like that's like the united states of america versus some country in in small country in south america there is no comparison granada yeah yeah it's it's just and that's no disrespect it's science right I mean I like I don't know how you I look at Tyson's hooks because I used to watch that all to Carlos but I may watch that all the time because they were so tight they're so perfect I'm like watching this I'm watching him come up you know the duck and hook and you just see an exposed face after missing on a punch and Tyson come up and's like, how do you survive that?

It's hard. Like, I know he knocks him out, but like, no, no, how do you live? Yeah. Oh, you got to be in shape. You know, if you're not in shape, you probably won't live. But still, an exposed head is an exposed head. You're getting hit right here by a Mike Tyson hook at full force.

What happens when they wear four-ounce gloves? Even more. MMA, four-ounce gloves. I will admit, though, no one has a strike like that, but still, like there's guys who can strike

like a motherfucker in there, especially the big boys. You know, you look at Nganou. Yeah, he hit hard. He hits a guy and goes down and he's laying there helpless and you're getting hit again until the referee stops that's the scary stuff that's scary yeah it's like fuck man and and they really that's the risk in your life shit that's just that's what happens you know you take your life in your hands. When they hit that bell, you better be ready. Better be ready.

If you're not, shame on you. You won't be able to tie your shoes in a few days. What did you think of Tyson? I thought he was a later day Frazier at first, but then he was so fast. He came in uppercuts. He really didn't have that much competition in the beginning but don't forget it's only his beginning of his career so but then mike

in just a little bit then he fought everybody you can pull it too by the way you can bring it to he fought everybody so you can't take it away from him he he fought everybody that was there he just was because he wasn't that tall. He was like 5'10", 5'11". 5'11", I think. Something like that. You know, it's not like he was 6'3". Because Holyfield was what?

Like 6'2", 6'3"? Yeah, yeah. You know, these guys, you, you're 6'5". Bigger guys. And he just, he's built like a human blowtorch. I mean, it's not normal. Well, I think for a little while there, he was on the... For a little while there. Well, have you ever seen this guy at like age 12?

You ever seen a picture of Mike Tyson? No, at age 12? Yeah. I'm going to pull this up, and I'm going to put it in the corner for people. I think it's age 13. You're going to take a look at this picture. This is a 13-year-old man, as I like to call it. That is Mike Tyson's age 13. You can take a look at this picture. This is a 13-year-old man, as I like to call it. That is Mike Tyson at age 13.

That's not – normal doesn't even begin to describe it. Like there is definitely – he obviously worked his balls off from a young age. Who was his – what was his trainer's name again? Right there. Yeah, yeah. What was his name gus amato that's it amato finds him when he's young so he's working his balls off but still 13 that's some genetics right there that picture yeah yeah it's gus right there no look at him

that's him at 17 at least because that just looks absurd that's 13 year old tyson um viciously KO'd wait that's him at 13 that's even worse than the first one he KO'd a 17 year old opponent jesus christ all right it says he's a teenager that could mean he's 13. but i mean just like some people are just born to do things yeah he was to me he was just born to do he was born to hurt people he won most of his fights in the locker room i'm gonna eat your kids i'm gonna your wife i mean on the ass i'm gonna you in the ass i'm gonna eat your your ear yeah i mean you know i'm only here to fight. What the fuck are you doing?

What are you, crazy? He's, you got to be built a little differently. I mean, like, were you, how would you psych yourself up for a fight, or did you have to, or was it just like a need in you? They would try to psych me up. They said, the guy's going to saw your wife and try and fuck her, you know. I said, he didn't say that. I know he didn't say that. Who's telling you that?

Dwayne, my trainer. He tried to get me psyched up. But as soon as the bell rang, I used to run across the ring and just start swinging. I was just an animal. I just started doing it. And that's why the Miami Beach Convention Center would fill up with my fans, you know,

because I was in the paper the next day. It was the whole headline. The paper was me, you know, Issa Kale's another opponent in the first round. So I was, one day, I think it was like my seventh or eighth fight. I'm in the back getting ready, and the whole stadium's going,

Lou, Lou, they're stamping their feet going, Lou, Lou, Lou, Lou and I'm going who the hell are those people what the hell are they doing, I'm from Jersey I don't know any of these people so Dwayne was laughing, he goes they're your fans they want to come, they're coming to see you I go I don't even know them, what are they doing

I had to go pee, I almost threw up nervous when I came out they rushed me, kill them knock them out Lou, kill them, kill them, all the old guys from MV for the cigars and nervous. When I came out, they rushed me. Kill him. Knock him out, Lou. Kill him. Kill him. All the old guys. Remember when we used to do cigars? Knock him out, Lou.

They had money on it. Yeah, yeah. Go knock him out, Lou. You can do it. You can do it. Go get him. And every time I got in the ring, I looked across the ring, and there's my opponent, bigger than me.

I'm supposed to be big. I'm always looking up at them. No way. Where are you getting these guys? No way. Yeah, the second opponent on my thing, his name was Clarence Morris. They called him King Kong Morris. King Kong Morris.

There he is. All right, let's look him up. Clarence Morris boxer. Okay. I'm going to stick this in the corner a picture of him so that's him as a contender

no he was bigger than that he was huge when I saw him at the fight I had to look up at him I'm not seeing much here but I'll stick that I looked up at him like this at the weigh in i got there after him so i didn't have to go you know see him at the weigh-in but

when we got in the ring wait they didn't make you see him at the weigh-in no i didn't see him i got i was there i got late i was there later so at the way at the way he leaves. So I weigh in. He goes back to the hotel that they got him. At the fight, we go to touch gloves. His hand, one hand was like that big. And I went, I looked up. I went. I go back to the corner. Two big holes in his face for a nose.

Huge muscles, shoulders and everything. I looked at Dwayne and I go, you guys trying to get me knocked off? What's going on here? They go, just go out there and knock him out. I go, you bet your ass I'm going to go out there. The bell rings. I go running across. He throws that left hook. Boom! But it was so slow. I ducked under it. I came

up with mine. I jumped into it. I threw that left hook, hit him on the chin. His whole I felt his whole face go boom like this and he went i stepped back you knocked him out on the first punch yeah and he went like this boom like that and the whole ring went i went oh god please don't let him get up please i went back to the corner remember he's six seven he didn't move so they said fight and it's over holy shit Were you ever worried you killed somebody? No, no, no. I mean, the one guy that I fought, I hit him with body shots.

His name was Leroy Diggs. Leroy Diggs. I'll pull it up. What fight was that? Probably my fifth. Leroy Diggs. I'll get Boxer on the end of it. Is that him?

Yeah, that's him. Here he is now? Yeah, I guess. I don't know. Philly guy. I guess. But he was doing really good. At first round,

he had a slapping jab like Ali. And he was at the gym for a few days before our fight. So he had that slapping jab. I saw the jab when I was sparring with other guys. Oh, he was at Fifth Street Gym? Yeah, they brought him in to train a few days before the fight because I guess he was from Philly. So two guys who were about to fight each other.

Yeah, at the gym, same gym. That's nuts. So he hits me with that slapping jab and i can't get out of the way of it i don't know why i just get away so the end of the third round the referee comes my eyes closed he says lou you got one more round you can't see i'm going to stop the fight i said i know what to do were they cutting it open no no they don't do that they don't do that it's only rocket it's okay so i don't know i gotta know they don't do that so uh so um i i at the end of the third round before the bell rang i hit him with a body shot and he spit his mouthpiece all the way across the ring so i knew hit him to the body

and it's over so the next round i go out there and he's a little hesitant because i hit him to the body i jab him to the ropes and then I throw that left to the body and I hit him with that left. And he went, oh, and he sat down on the rope and I jumped to the right, hit him with the right to the body, jumped to the left, hit him with the left to the body, jumped to the right. I hit him with three or four punches to the body

and the referee pulled me off and he started counting them, one, two, and he couldn't get off the rope. He couldn't get up because of the body shots. He couldn't get up. And he sent me a letter three months later. He goes, I'm still pissed in pink. Jesus Christ. He goes, what the hell did you hit me with?

He wanted to look in the gloves. He came after the fight, and he said, I want to see his hands after he took the gloves off. And he thought maybe I had something in there. He checked. You were hitting him that hard. hard yeah and then another kid i fought in orlando i fought a kid in orlando he comes in the locker room he goes you're good i'm just pulling it back how's that okay yep he comes in the locker room and he goes um he goes i got goddamn lumps on my head. He goes, what the hell is in your,

I said, I have nothing, just my hands. So he goes, shit, you put lumps on my head. I feel like I got antlers. And so what happened was he hit me a good shot to the mouth. And when he did, I got mad and I just, I jabbed him into the ropes and I hit him with a body shot when he bent over. I just kept swinging at him and I was hitting him in the top of the head and he just fell forward and fell out.

I knocked him out. But, yeah, he came in the locker room. He goes, hey, you know, I just want you to know I got lumps on my head. I go, I'm sorry, man. I didn't mean to, you know. He goes, it's all right. I just wanted to let you know. How much of it, it like because we see

it all the time with guys who legitimately hate each other it's not just a ploy you know like there's there's some guys was that did you have anyone like that no plant you're talking about like plant and uh and canelo yeah and and there's a lot there's a lot like that you know what i mean like these different fighters who just fucking hate each other and i'm trying to like picture you with it and i can't because the way you talk about this it was kind of like your whole approach was all right i guess i'll go in there and knock them out yeah oh okay we're done let's go out like yeah that's so relaxed that's the way it was with me i just didn't you know it was fun i really had a good time i had a lot of fun doing it and the rewards were so good.

I mean, you know, be able to walk around Miami and people know who you are and things like that. It means that you're being recognized for what you do. And that's important to people, you know. That's important to me too when I was doing it. You know, it's important that people know who I am, you know. Aren't you Louisa? Yeah.

I saw you fight. You're like crazy. I go, thanks. And then they buy you dinner or they buy you a drink, you know aren't you Luisa yeah I saw you fight you're like crazy I go thanks and they went in and they buy you dinner they buy you a drink you know you know I don't I'm not drinking I'm fighting remember and you were I guess at your peak you were what like fifth or sixth ranked or something like that 10th 10th pretty high I mean that was the golden era of yeah of heavyweight boxing I uh I enjoyed it I mean I tell you I had the golden era of heavyweight boxing. I enjoyed it. I mean, I tell you, I had the best time of my life. Met the nicest people in the world in boxing.

Who was the coolest? Ali was the coolest. I met a lot of good guys. Bruce Trampler, who's still in boxing today. You could call Bruce Trampler and ask Bruce Trampler anything about boxing, about any fighter. He'll tell you how many fights he's had, who he fought, how many rounds, did he win or lose. He knows everything about every fighter. Just like Henry Haskup.

Henry Haskup from New Jersey, Mr. Boxing. Bruce Trampler and Henry Haskup, Mr. Boxing. Both of them. I think you know a lot, too. I got to tell you. I mean, I know a lot. Nowhere near these guys. These guys are encyclopedias. I'm telling you, if I needed to know about, if Zack's fighting and I need to know about his opponent, I call them.

Oh, so they know. Wow. I call, what's going on with this guy? They know all the new era stuff, too. And new and old. They know everything, especially Henry. Henry has a computer. I mean, he's the...

Forget about what... He's Italian. He's nothing like Henry Haskell. He knows everything. But so does Bruce. Bruce Champler's the same way. He's a matchmaker for top rank, Bruce Champler. So he has to know fighters so he makes good fights.

What goes into that that besides just looking at records and where a guy's from if there's any marketing styles styles you got to pick the guy's styles you know styles make fights two good styles together wow that's a good fight so like got a puncher and a boxer you know that's what want. What about like Hearns Hagler, though? That was just two brawlers. Hearns Hagler was, no, not two brawlers as much as they were. When they fought. They were boxers, though.

But when they fought. Yeah, they went nuts. They went, well, they just, they didn't have too much liking for each other either. No. Yeah, they, I mean, Hearns and Leonard, they might not have liked each other in the ring, but they liked each other out of the ring. They talked a lot, you know. That's almost weird to me. Like, because it's such a different personal sport.

I mean, you even see it in other sports where guys who, you know, it's their livelihood and somebody costs somebody a win or a championship. They don't like each other, but you'll see a lot of guys still be friends but in boxing you are beating the fuck out of each other you are getting in there to destroy another person the idea that like you could be friends with them is it's a planned fight you know like i can't imagine being friends with somebody and being like hey this saturday we're gonna fight 12 rounds and'm going to try to beat the fuck out of you. Like I couldn't – you know what I mean? Like there has to be something there where it's like this guy fucked my wife or something. Like there needs to be something like that.

I don't know. That never was like that with me. You know, these guys – a lot of people have different thoughts. Hey, listen. You have to be a little touched in the head to get in the ring anyway. You know, these guys, a lot of people have different thoughts. Listen, you have to be a little touched in the head to get in the ring anyway. It's only you and another guy, and you're punching each other, trying to hurt each other bad. So there's got to be a little bit wrong with you to want to do that.

Sure. So to jump through that, that's one thing. Ali and Frazier hated each other, though, right? Yeah, they hated to love each other, because look at the money they made together. No matter what, I mean, Frazier, Ali, everybody was there. They were in the theaters watching it on the big screen. They were at the fight.

They were everywhere watching it, you know what I mean? Everybody wanted to go watch that fight. That was the number one fight. Did you know frazier too pretty well i went to his opening of his movie his grand opening he remembered me he called me white boy all the time hey white boy come here but he was old then and uh did he train down at fifth street no he trained at uh in philly i know but did he come down there and train like yeah i don't know if he might have went in for a day or two. Got it. For promotional things for the fights. Did you ever spar with him?

Yeah. I sparred with Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Norton, Ernie Shavers, Lyle, Dwayne Bobbick, Rodney Bobbick. Everybody that came to Miami, I sparred with them. Everyone important from that era. That came into Miami, I sparred with them, yeah. Now, I think it all blends together sometimes with me. Like, I can't remember who told me what or whatever, but I've said this before, so I want to set the record straight if I have it right or if someone else was making this up

or if it was you that told me. I don't remember maybe it was you that told me you had a particular skill at being able to mimic other fight styles right so when you would spar with these guys whether it be ali or you did tell me before you spar with frazier or some of some of the other ones bobby some of those guys foreman they would ask you to mimic who they were going to fight next. Yeah, they would ask me to do certain things that would mimic the fight, the opponent they were fighting. Because I was very big, but I was also light on my feet.

I was able to move around. Then I could stand flat-footed and box because I was heavy, and I could punch. I had a good punch, so I was able to do that type of boxing where I would be able to move around. Like when Ali fought Jimmy Young when we're getting my first loss i i trained with him and then i ended up losing a fight because of the abscess but i was training him for did he give you the abscess no how did he give me an abscess it was an infected tooth i know but doesn't that happen like when

you when you get the tooth loosened no no no and then something gets in there No, no, I did there just it just happened out. I had a cavity and turned into a Okay, so it was natural. It was an infection. That would have been wild if Ali gave that to you though No, it was it was messed up that That's a hard thing that you know, I didn't want to go lose the fight because of my mother Well when they stopped the fight with six X's left. Oh i called first thing i did call my mother i told her i lost my she goes i saw it and what's wrong with that referee six seconds you beat the guy to death for three rounds and he stops the fight with six seconds left he goes i go mom but i was punching

where the guy wasn't she goes i saw you but it was all right i mean the guy didn't hit you i said whatever today you would have gone very viral for that. The whole internet would have seen that one. Oh, God. That would have been, we got to find the video of that. That would be a meme, maybe even today in the 144 piece. Well, I asked for videos of some of my fights on Wide World of Sports, but they said they're in the archives. And the guy told me, he goes lewis it'll take me

two years to find it oh you gotta be kidding that there's got to be a better system there's no way those people don't have a better system i'm telling you that i called there and everything i asked we're gonna work on that i got i did i did a thing for uh I did a video for National Geographic, Underworld Inc., it's called, where they filmed me. I was a bookmaker. You were a bookmaker, too? Yeah. When? When did you start that?

I knew you were a bookie, but like back then? I was a bookie when you came into. Yeah. Yeah, I was there. When did you start, though? I did when I was 17. I started with tickets, football tickets. You know, football tickets.

What do you mean football tickets? You get a ticket and you pick three teams. Like a parlay. You pick three teams. If you win all three teams, you get 10 times whatever you bet. So if you bet a dollar, you get $10 back. But you got to win three teams. You know how hard that is?

That's hard. So I used to give it to all my kids in school. I would get one from my father's friend. I would fill it. At first, I would take it to school, and I would make copies of it, 600, 700 copies. Then I'd give the guy back the thing, give him a dollar. Then I would give them out to all my friends, but I would keep those. I was making like $1,200 a week.

My father was going, where are you getting all this money? Did you keep that throughout college too? Yeah, yeah. You keep that when you were a pro boxer? When I went to college, I opened up my own office. I had an office. I was taking action. When did you have time to train?

I'm listening to all this. I opened up an office. I didn't answer the phones. I had guys answering the phones. Oh, my God. So you were still maintaining a book while you were a pro boxer? Oh, yeah. It was good were still maintaining a book while you were a pro boxer? Oh, yeah. It was good.

I'm sure it was. I made so much money in football. But then the Cubans, those son of a bitch Cubans, they beat the hell out of me in baseball. I quit. They made me quit. I mean, I won $80,000 in the football season. So I said, this is great. I want to do great.

I opened up for baseball. And the Cubans, every game, they were like they knew. They knew every game. And they hit me. They beat the hell out of me. I quit. I said, I'm done.

New Yorker, my partner in New York, he said to me, Lou, don't quit. They're killing me. I can't win a baseball game. I go, it's crazy. He says, what are you going to do? I said, I quit. That's it.

I'm done. I quit. Then when I came back to Jersey, I started again. When I knew you, I had started again. When did you come back to Jersey full time? 2002. Okay. Well, I still didn't meet you until like 2015, but okay.

So you were doing it up here. I mean, look, I always tell people in North Jersey, you want a bookie? Lick your finger, hold it up to the wind. You'll get one. It's going to be someone walking right down the street. Very, very easy. But different world now than it was for sure. It's coming back, though. You think so?

Well, it's coming back, but it's also hard. I mean, betting. It's also hard because it's legal now. That's what I'm saying. But here's the thing. Here's the thing about legal betting. You go to the track. Let's say you go to Meadowlands.

You want to bet on a football game. You bet. You get a ticket. Now, if you win, you want the taxes right then and there. And you have to have the money to bet. If you bet with me on a phone you call me all week and bet and then sunday when sunday rolls around the next following monday you have to pay up you bet now what happens when they don't pay you know you read it in the newspaper

you've seen it you know what you know what this is you see you don't even need a bet though you just you go as yourself yeah well i mean i've done it a million times i you know i tell i tell people like uh like when i did the the thing for um underworld inc you could look for it now how did that come together and what was that a friend of mine they asked him about they want to know about bookmaking so he called me lou you they want to know about bookmaking old and new would you give want to do it i go, how much? They go, they'll pay you $7,500. Tell them to come down. Come on in. They did it at the gym. We're fitting.

Come on. Yeah, you could get it. I got it. You got to go to National Geographic, Underworld Inc. I definitely. It might be on YouTube. Underworld Inc. We're not going to be able to play it on here because it's youtube

i just want to see like if yours specifically exists on youtube now you got to put in when you put underworld inc you got to put uh illegal gambling all right underworld inc illegal illegal gambling and you're and you're you're giving this interview and 55 minutes is all me still operating a book yeah that's what you call fearlessness right there all right so i can get this later that's me right there big lou did you just go by big lou yeah they didn't know who i didn't know my last name they didn't even give you your last name yeah funny i'm at the gym and everything you know who i am that's i'm in the bag of course you know who you are they're not giving you the darkened screen no no yeah everybody

else did that i'm the only one that did my my son called me he goes everybody's on everybody's calling me telling me you're on tv talking about book he goes you're gonna get arrested i go why would i get arrested one of my friends who works with the state police he called me he goes you should get an oscar for that oh my god i go i should state police, he called me and goes, you should get an Oscar for that. Oh, my God. I go, I should. They should give me. They were going to come back and do more. They wanted to do more.

They wanted to do every day in a bookmaker. They wanted to do a weekly thing, like a reality show. Oh, my God. I met a guy at a diner who gave me $10,000. One of my friends, I told him, bring $10,000 and give me $10,000. So I met a guy at a diner, gave me 10 grand. One of my friends, I told him, bring 10,000 and give me 10,000. So I counted and I said, okay. I said, Mr. Governor, Christy, I said, when you legalize gambling, I'll work for you.

In the meantime, I got this. Oh, my God. It's in that show. You'll see it. I have to watch that. You'll see it. That's incredible. So you still had that during your career. The focus was more on picking up the blow though

because there was a lot of money in that oh god so then how did you decide your career was over did they kind of tell you like i know i did i said it i said i'm done so you know when you're talking about pick up the blow i didn't only pick up the blow i was bringing it to new jersey new york pennsylvania oh shit Chicago. When did that start? At the same time. When you left boxing? Towards the end of the career. I was going places, making so much money.

You know, you come to New Jersey for the weekend. I would leave Miami on Saturday morning, come to New Jersey with 20 keys. And then I go back and I would make like over $150,000. And I'd be back in Miami on Sunday morning. One day, everybody would be at my mother's house. All the cars would be parked on my street. They would come in and pick up what they paid, what they wanted.

My mother would sew the stuff back in my coat, the money, inside my coat, and I would go home. I gave her $10,000 for doing that, and then I'd go home. Holy shit. I was making crazy money though never caught me once at the airport where were you flying out of jfk newark no miami oh going out of newark on the way home i go out of newark different times yeah today how long were you doing today you got to go to a metal detector you go like that they still have money in your coat back then you're handing a baggie to the fucking tsa agent no you don't you don't even have to you got to go to a metal detector. You go like that, they sell that money in your coat. Back then, you're handing a bag into the fucking TSA agent. You want some?

No, you don't even have to do nothing. Just go. No, I'm saying you're giving them something. There was no TSA back then. I used to come in on the red eyes when I come from Miami. I came in on the red eye because at night, there'd be nobody to check the bags. Then after a while, I learned how to do it without even going. I call my father. I tell my father father you know the bag I have right he said yeah well it'll

be there at 1160 at Kennedy I guess number bag he would meet the baggage the bag would come out he have a guy there with him pick up the bag they'd walk right out nobody was there to check the bags so they'd walk right out and then he'd sell it and then send me the money so you'd go check into the airport check your bag walk out the door and leave and go home call my father it's on the 11 50. it's coming in oh my god that was the good those were the good days that lasted for about five years and then somebody told people what people were doing and then the baggage guys would take these long knitting needles and stick it in the side of the bag see if then smell the bag then smell the needle oh that one stays over there put that one over there they would stick it my god i lost

two bags that way did they but they could rescue for that because it's your bag you checked it oh you checked all a different name they stole the bag oh they took it for themselves yeah they go take it the baggage handlers were sticking it with needles and smelling it they stole it that didn't go how the government i wasn't worried about the cops i was worried about them stealing it oh my god how do you set up something like that though so you i mean you were doing you're obviously doing work for them while you were a boxer like going out and picking the shit up and then you're done and you're like all right i want to be a distributor now well i would just say i want to i want to get i want to get some keys okay how many you want and you know you're talking about back then keys were sixteen thousand

dollars up in new jersey they were 52 so i come up here with 20 and flip them and be back in Miami the next day. But I would sell them for 40. So you'd have like a few go-tos who would buy them every time. I had so many guys I couldn't take. I had to stop because too many people knew what I was doing. Too many people talking. And you can't get in trouble.

And I used to get the stuff out of high times and that was that was coke it was they call peruvian flake one big sheet of like like uh mother of pearl mother of pearl yeah you hold it up it looks like mother of pearl that's what it looks like it was all solid like mother of pearl and then you break it up and you cut it up and they would snort it. They couldn't get enough of that. And then crack came around. One kilo brings back a million dollars cash. Holy shit.

From crack, yeah. That's just nuts. Yeah, well, I didn't get involved with crack. I didn't like that. Yeah, it's kind of sad how they did that because they made they made coke like the rich guy's drug and then they basically like killed it yeah and they put it down and and then sold it cheap and sold it to all believe it or not making a big comeback oh my god big comeback holy man everybody wants it now the most shocking thing, when I tell you I went to college and I was not shocked by anything.

I really wasn't. Except one thing. I could not believe. Couldn't believe. How many people did coke. Fucking everyone. Now, I never touch this stuff. But this.

I'll never forget senior week. I'm not going to say who it was because I'll give it away. But there were quote-unquote respected people putting lines on their index finger there's no way this even like worked out like there's scientifically like this definitely didn't work out for him but they're so fucked up they're putting lines on their index finger walking out into the ocean like you know they're like chill and snorting it out in the ocean like that i'm just i'm looking around and you know we're college kids there's some kids whoorting it out in the ocean like that. I'm just, I'm looking around. And, you know, we're college kids.

There's some kids who got mommy and daddy's money and shit. I got a broke bank account. I'm like, where the fuck are people getting $100, $120 to buy this shit every day? Every day. It's crazy. It is. Believe me, they find it. When they get that cocaine hook, when they get hooked, they find it.

They find that money. People sell their businesses they find it. They find that money. People sell their businesses, their homes. They lose their businesses, their homes, their wives, their kids, everything because they got hooked on coke. Coke was, I mean, crack was crazy, but coke, which was crack. But I realized how crack was so addictive because coke was so addictive. People just couldn't do it, couldn't stop. I never tried it.

I only sold it. For me, if you give me that much, I'm selling it. You give me this much, I'm selling it. I didn't care. I just get rid of it. It was all cash to me. I'm about the cash. That's what I was about.

Did you ever feel bad about that a little bit, though? You're in something to make money. You're making money while you're doing your career and all that. So it's like you're kind of doing it on the side. It's a fast life. It's Miami. It's fun. But then, you know, you're distributing all this stuff.

And, you know, it goes to people. People get addicted. It can ruin lives and stuff. And I think a lot of times when you talk with people after the fact and i don't want to speak for you i want you to answer it but you know they think about it after they're out of it and they're done like god damn that was fucked up but it's like in the moment you kind of a lot of people don't seem to think about that a lot and they're just like all right well i'm here we're doing it let's go well you got to remember

it's all according to what level you're on if you're in the street and you're just like, all right, well, I'm here, we're doing it, let's go. Well, you got to remember, it's all according to what level you're on. If you're in the street and you're dealing to people one-on-one, then you feel the impact of what you're doing. But I was a high level. I was 150 keys a week. I would just see somebody who took 10 keys somebody who took five you know friends that took five or ten that i never then i just leave you know they leave here you don't see them again until the following week when they took another five or ten

but uh it's not i never i never got into the street low level street stuff it's less personal yes less personal yeah i always kind of wonder that especially like with the guys back in colombia and mexico today is a little different but you know there's a lot of violence that comes with it and things like that and they see that part amongst themselves but i wonder how much of that those guys you know the pablo escobars of the world and stuff really really saw of like people who got fucked up. Well, Pablo Escobar seen it.

Don't forget. They did documentary on him. He had a lot of people working for him, low level people that would, that were hooked there, but he couldn't, you couldn't be hooked if you worked for him though. He got you clean.

Then you had to work. Cause they, you had to work. Sometimes people work like they have to work naked. So they don't want, they don't want you, you know, he had the gloves on so that the Coke don't go into your hands because you can get

high just getting it in your pores also you might steal it too they didn't like that they don't want you they don't want you to steal nothing who's the guy frank lucas the american american girls girls work naked and then look they made a lot of money but uh you can't you don't want you stealing nothing i always wonder about like the people like these different stash houses and stuff there were thousands of them thousands of them like we have i have to know people in my life who i don't know about who were work who were like the people working them i mean like the physical labor like how do you even get that job we used to look look for them. I used to work with a friend of mine who was a DEA agent. He used to give me the badges. And we used to go in and steal, you know, drug houses, steal from the drug houses.

Oh, my God. I mean, they're not going to call the cops. We are the cops. Ding dong, got a search warrant for the premises. Guy would, you know, on the floor, let's go. Guy give us guns, everything you know on the floor let's go guy give us guns everything everybody on the floor and we handcuff everybody look around find everything take it oh my god you handcuff everyone and leave and they can open your mouth put the handcuff key in his mouth don't swallow that oh my god oh we made so big scores doing that

did he go down too no i didn't go down for so big scores doing that. Did he go down, too? No. We didn't go down for that. I never went down for that. Did he ever go down? No, he would never go in. No, he never went down. No, no, no, no. You're talking about the cop? Yeah.

No, he never went down. He never got in trouble for that? No, no. I wonder how many cops get away with it. So many. Too many. You're talking about... Look, I know cops in Miami that made Dade County Metro. two men you're talking about look i know cuffs in miami that were that were made date county metro

they quit and bought lobster boats and they were out doing lobster fishing because they found they went out one morning in their lobster boat they had a little one they went out to lay a couple of traps and they found 70 80 bales in the water so they put it in their boat brought it back call me look you sell this for us yeah Yeah, no problem. Sell it for them and they ended up quitting the police force, bought two lobster boats and we're out doing lobster stuff.

You have any more bales they must have found? You know, look, when you, I mean, cops even down there, but even at the federal level,

you're a DA agent, you're an FBI agent. Jim DiIorio, when he was in here, said the number. It's like, whatever it is. It's not, you know, it's money. You're not poor agent. You're an FBI agent. Jim DiIorio, when he was in here, said the number. It's like whatever it is. It's not – you know, it's money. You're not poor, but like you only make so much and you do it.

And it's like anything else. I think people can – the slippery slope, they can be bought off to be like, all right, I'll let that slide. I'll make a few extra bucks for my weekend, whatever. And then suddenly they're doing more and then they're doing more and then they're doing more. And then, you know, the lines blur. First time he takes it he's done he's so that's it yeah he said he can't get out of it after the first one because you're wrong right there you're wrong for taking it the first time so you need to keep the mind to keep their mouths shut and you're just going to keep doing it and that's what happens i mean you got kids you know you're a cop

you're out there working your ass off. You got a kid. He's sick. You can't afford to help him. And somebody comes along where you can make a half a million dollars. Just look the other way. What are you going to do? That's what I mean. It's like.

It's too tempting. It's too hard. I mean, it's really hard to find really good police officers. And today, it's tough. It's tough. Because they're getting abused so bad, especially today. I think it'd be harder back then it's harder now why why do you i mean with the internet and everything and and transparent transparency but at least more ability to track what people are doing and stuff back then it was like it's so hard to get a cop that won't look the other way.

Because look how they're being abused today. They're being abused. They're getting indicted. They have cameras on all the time. Not to undercover and stuff like that, but believe me, I think it's easier today. You can buy any cop you want today. Really? Because they're not being, they don't even like their job no they don't like their jobs anymore they

don't want to work that why because you're not being you're not being backed up by the city or by the state or the government whatever feds you're not being backed up i've told this story before so apologies to people who have heard it on the podcast but i gotta tell you this one because it says everything that you're saying right now i will never forget sitting in the car at this is like 5 a.m in the morning i was driving to a job up just outside new york city so when i was in college i dated a girl who lived right above new york city in pelham and so i got a job up there caddying so i I'm up at the crack of dawn, get a loop in, do the thing, make my money. And I'm 195 listening to WFAN, the sports station up there. And an ad comes on. I mean, a full blown 60 second buy at a 5am ad spot on a Saturday morning.

And it's some lady with the music in the background the hokey music going join the nypd and it starts to listen off like you'll get full pension benefits like health insurance all this nothing about the job nothing about the fact that it's like you're becoming a fucking cop like you're law enforcement you're gonna carry a gun and it's not like they say oh you get to carry a gun but i'm sitting there listening to this and they're selling it like a product and i'm like who the fuck is listening to this at 5 a.m on a saturday morning somebody working some shitty construction job or somebody who like doesn't like in most cases somebody like me like hustling to some bullshit job you're like oh i get a pension on this like think about the people you could be getting from that and i'm not like trying to

rip people here but the average schmo then they get into it they get a taste on this? Like, think about the people you could be getting from that. And I'm not, like, trying to rip people here, but the average schmo, then they get into it, they get a taste, and they're like, well, there's a cap to it. Then someone comes up to them and says, yeah, you make an extra 10 grand if you just do this. All right, no problem. And like you said, they're hooked. That's how it happens. That's how it happens. It's easy. Look, it's scary.

That's what it is. Because you don't know who, like I said, you don't know who to trust today. No. You don't know who to trust. Even if you want to be a drug dealer today. You can't be a drug dealer today. Too many people give you up. They give you up.

If you were doing business with somebody, three people, two of them are going to give you up before you can say something. They're going to give you up on the way to the police station. They get 97% conviction rate. Why? Because they hit you. Let's say you and I get arrested. They're going to say, listen, Julian, you're going to get 25 years. Your education is down the toilet.

Everything after 25 years. When you come out, you're going to be obsolete. If you get a job, who knows, sleeping floors somewhere. You're going to say, I don't want that. Well, that's what you're looking at, 25 years. Well, how do I get out? Well, you've got to testify against him. No, I'm not doing that.

Okay, we'll see you later because he's going to testify against you. He what? They're going to get one or the other. Whoever we talk to first. You happen to be the lucky guy. We're here first make a decision yeah there's and now in the era of wiretaps and everything i mean that just once technology entered the building slowly they take your license plate from sky from outer space from

a satellite they take the license plate of your car and follow you from that from outer space Now you said you were working with the Cubans mostly, right? Yeah So and I when I was asking that question We were only talking about the going back and forth in the boat So now in the in the distribution you were getting it from some of those main guys I would give it to you and you could do what you please right? I could sell it And did you you paid them upfront? No they're front now you have to now today you can't get nothing fronted they have to pay up front but back then they would front you 10 up first i started out with 20 keys

then i then i went up to move up to 50 then i went to 100 then i went to 150 after that i stayed at 150 it was because that was more than enough for me to make how like once a month once a week once a week you're doing this every week every week Florida Jersey yeah putting it into the New York Market right and this is in the 80s 70s and 80s you could do that the reason I asked because and I might be mixed up here but didn't like the Cali cartel own New York with Coke nobody owned nothing you got Coke you sell it wherever you got it interesting hmm because that and like that was on that show Narcos like that and it was actually TV Yeah, but still like some of the a lot of it was TV and whatever But there were certain elements of that like for example that people if you go look at the history of it like people didn't know

That Escobar wasn't the only guy down there There was there was the Cali cartel who were they were actually bigger and they had any already in cartel Medellin was Escobar cali was the other one right so like medellin had miami in the u.s for example and then cali had new york and they were just fucking supplying everything but then yeah like i know the cubans were doing a lot in miami i didn't know if they were doing stuff in new york i just don't like me trying to picture like how that's how that's legislated on the underworld, it's crazy to me. So you pretty much could just get it and take it places and you didn't worry about repercussions?

No. I didn't worry about nothing back then. I didn't care about nobody and nothing. I was making so much money. And I have no vices. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't do drugs.

My only vice was buying things for my wife and kids. That's the same thing I have in this vice. That's the same vice I have now. I love my wife. I want her to have everything. That's the way I am. How many years did this last? The drug business?

Mm-hmm. 15, 10, 15. And so you got, the indictments came down, you went to Greece. Yes. The indictments came down for traveler's checks. And then they said

we were using a traveler's check with the proceeds from the traveler's checks. We were buying coke and bringing that to Greece. And that's how the Greek government got involved. They asked the Greek government to extradite me, to arrest me and extradite me so they followed me for one year the

greek government and then they told the united states you lied to us you told us he was dealing drugs he's not dealing drugs here he works in the night as a extortionist but over there it's not called extortion it's called protection and everybody does it if you don't do it the cops do it oh my god so i was at a nightclub and i had 10 nightclubs paying me 500 a week to protect them because if like in greece the kids go out like a group of guys like you have friends you go out and you have drinks in a club you run a tab at the end of the night the guy brings you the tab you tell him fuck you i'm not paying you're the guy that comes in and says you're paying i i go in when the guy has like 10 people there and he knows they're gonna fuck with him he calls me lou i need you to come i said i'm on my way i go up

the street he gives me the check i go over the table i mean the money chair costs they look at me they go and they pay and i give it to the owner and he goes oh thank you so much and I leave so you paid 500 bucks a week for that? in case he ever needs me I go there so you were doing that and you were out of the drug business yeah but they still arrested you and extradited you

they extradited me for that same indictment because like I said after years went by domino theory people got arrested and they didn't want them. They wanted me. So when I got home, there was a big triangle in the court on a chalkboard. 35 names and mine's in red at the top. I go to the judge.

The fuck is that? He goes, Lou, you can't talk like that in my court. I go, I'm sorry, Your Honor, but what is that? He goes, that's your organization. Oh, my God. I go, come on.'re you're an intelligent man you have a college degree you got a law you've been you got a law degree everything come on i go you're gonna tell me that 35 guys are working for me in america taking chances on getting caught going to jail they're working for me and sending me the money in greece so i can live the. Oh, they were indicting you for your time in Greece. No.

They were indicting me for the charge that was here. Before. Yeah, but they're saying that, I'm saying all these guys worked for me. I lived in Greece. I was there four years. So I say, you're saying these guys worked for me and they were sending me money to Greece? Because that's what they're alleging. Well, no.

They were saying before, though. Yeah, but they're saying they were sending me money. During, too. Yeah, while people were getting arrested. It years you know what i mean so uh so they just dragged that in on top they dragged that in so i just said that's a bull i said that's bull your honor he goes don't worry we're gonna get to the bottom of this when he sentenced me i said we sure got to the bottom of that he looked down he was all he knew i was right he knew i was dead right. And the Spanish government came to my sentencing. Spanish government?

Yeah, because Spain arrested me when they extradited me. I got arrested in Barcelona. I was in Barcelona. So the Greeks didn't arrest you? No, the Greeks wouldn't arrest me. They said, they're not doing nothing wrong. You lied to us. You said he was selling drugs here.

He's not. So they didn't arrest me. The cop came to my house and told me, don't leave here. They're looking for you. Well, don't forget that when Europe became the European Union, I thought it was all one. So I went from Greece to Barcelona to meet my friend,

my best friend, and he had set me up. The feds were waiting for me there. Oh, man. Yeah. i got off the plane i was walking towards the plane towards the hand your i had like six or seven different passports so i was going to hand one of them in i grabbed the american one and i handed the guy didn't have your name on it yeah and the guy was shaking like this i go what the you got cerebral palsy sign the damn thing and let's go. And I hear the guy go, Hermenito de King Kong.

And that means in Spanish, King Kong's little brother. So I turn around and the guy's got a machine gun. So I duck. I thought he was going to shoot that guy. I don't know what he's shooting. Not me.

I had nothing to do with nothing. So he goes, Hermenito de King Kong, arriba, get up. So I got up. I go, what's up? He goes, some little guy with a seersucker blue suit walks up to me. He goes, Luis Issa, I'm with the Federal Bureau

of Investigation. You're going with us. I go, I'm not going nowhere with you. I don't live here. I go, you live in the United States? He goes, yeah. I go, where are you taking me? To the United States. No, you're not. I live in Greece. I'm going back home. He goes, you refuse extradition? Exactly. He goes, okay. taking me to the united states no you're not i live in greece i'm going back home he goes you refuse extradition exactly he goes okay take him away i go what do you mean take me away

he goes you're going you're going to jail they took me right to prison in spain in spain and then there was a whole court thing to get you to whether or not i had to go a year i fought extradition finally living in jail yeah but I was the lifeguard at the pool. What's prison life in Spain like? It's a joke. A joke. I had my own cable TV. I had the only TV in the place with cable. I had to run up to the ceiling with a satellite

dish. I was watching TV. I was selling drugs in the jail. You were selling drugs in the jail? The guards would go get me 10 ounces, 10 grams of heroin. I would give it to the doctor. You were selling drugs in the jail? The guards would go get me 10 grams of heroin. I would give it to the doctor. He would cut it up, put it in bags, and I would sell it because everybody had cash. Now, how much do you have to pay off the guards? Like 50% cut in?

Listen, I give him $900 a month. He would make $600 a month as a guard. I gave him $900 for his pocket. And how much were you making? I landed there with $30,000 when I went to visit my friend I had 30 grand in my pocket did they take that from you?

no, they could never take my money so I had it in my pocket so you're walking into prison with 30 grand in your pocket and they were going to take because I had the Rolex on and I had a chain and a ring they were going to take my stuff and they were talking to each other

but I understood Spanish and the FBI agent told him because he spoke Spanish and I had a chain and a ring. They were going to take my stuff and they were talking to each other, but I understood Spanish. And the FBI agent told him, because he spoke Spanish, he told them in Spanish, not this guy, somebody else, do not try to take his money or his jewelry. He said, I'm telling you now, don't do it.

I'm giving you fair warning. So they didn't try it. So when I got to the jail, I got a lawyer and I took off my jewelry, and I told him, mail that to my brother in New York. So when I came home, I got my jewelry. But the money I kept, and I had $30,000 when I landed, and I was selling heroin.

I was there for a year and a half, and when I left, I had $180,000. What year is this? It's 88, 88 to 89. So jail was $120,000 investment for you. And when I landed in New York, I paid my lawyer at the airport in cash, $60,000. Wait, wait, so you landed, did you get to go to New York on your own volition?

No, they came with 22 marshals to get me. I was going to say. They came with 22 marshals on a holiday. They wouldn't have been able to take me. It was a regular day because in my cell with me was a lawyer from Miami, and he's Cuban, and he was printing out motions, and the United States government kept saying, how the hell is he beating us in court? They didn't know that.

What I did was I got a computer. I paid the guard to bring me a computer. And this guy, and we had a printer and we had the Spanish law, all the Spanish law on CD. So he put it in the computer and he was printing out, printing out motions and we were killing the government. What was your lawyer? You had a lawyer as a cellmate? Humberto Aguilar.

What was he in for? He's in Miami now. He's in Miami. Of course he is. He was a lawyer for the cartels, so they arrested him. Oh my God. How did he get arrested in Spain, though? He took off for Spain, and they got him there.

Oh my God. So Humberto was killing him, but he came on a holiday when there was no court. So Humberto goes, we can't get the degree. And I go, forget it. I'm going to get fianza, which means bail. I said, I'm going home. I'm going to get fianza, so I'm going to go. He goes, Lou, don't go. They're I go, forget it. I'm going to get fianza, which means bail. I said, I'm going home. I'm going to get fianza.

So I'm going to go. He goes, Lou, don't go. They're going to kill you there. I go, no, they're not. So I get my stuff. I pack everything up, everything in a big bag I had. And it's all climatically sealed. Because I know if you go from prison to prison and you have stuff that's climatically sealed,

you could take it with you into the prison. So I had sweatshirts. I had sweatpants. I had brandhirts, I had sweatpants, I had brand new sneakers, I had four pairs of underwear, four t-shirts, everything I could have, two toothbrushes, all my toiletries, all my law work, my legal work, all my pictures and stuff

of my kids and my letters, everything's in this bag. So they handcuffed me around my waist, handcuffed me here, and got leg irons on. So I'm walking. I go, guys, my name's not Hannibal Lecter. It's Louisa. I don't have any violence on my record. Why are you doing this?

They go, no, we were told you're dangerous. You could be dangerous. I go, whatever. I go, I'm 40,000 feet above the Atlantic Ocean. Can I take this off so I could eat? and I don't fuck around so I said the guy you hungry he goes yeah I said boom I flipped it right on him hola shit all the sauce everything went on he was like that to hit me I go yeah you do that when they take these off I'll kill you he looked at me I'm

seriously and days please Puerto Rican right, that's why you were in the cuffs. This guy's dangerous. He's Puerto Rican, this guy. So the rest of them are all white, and they're all talking about blacks and stuff. They're all prejudiced to the days long. So he looks at me, and I'm looking at him, and he hears them talking, and I hear them talking.

So I go, what do you think happens when they're done with the blacks? You're next. I go, you're brown. You're next. So he goes, I go, you watch and see. You're next. They're talking about the blacks now? You're next.

I'll tell you, it was bad. It was bad. But then when I got in front of the judge, oh, what happened with my bag? I told you I had everything in the bag. So I'm pulling the bag. I'm not walking fast enough. I go, I got shackles and handcuffs on. How do you expect me to walk faster with my bag? I told you I had everything in the bag. So I'm pulling the bag. I'm not walking fast enough. I go, I got shackles and handcuffs on. How do you expect me to walk faster pulling a bag? He goes, I go, why don't you pull the bag for me?

He goes, I'm not your red cap. I go, then we have to take the next plane because I'm not going to walk faster. He goes, okay, I'll take it. Now I'm walking a little bit faster. I'm walking. I don't see him. I thought maybe he went ahead and put the bag in the luggage. He threw it in a dumpster.

Your whole bag? My whole bag. So when I get to the airport. How's that legal? It's not. So when I get to the airport, I'll tell you what happened. I get to the airport. I go, where's my bag?

I want to get my bag. Don't worry about it. We'll get it for you. I go, but I got my legal stuff and everything. I need my bag. My lawyer's here. So my lawyer steps up, give him his bag. The bag was thrown in the garbage in Spain. You what? I go, my kids' pictures are in there. That's all I cared about was my kids. We were writing back and forth and they would send me their pictures and letters from my kids.

I go, letters from my children, and pictures are in that bag. Why would you do that? He goes, I'm not your red cap. I said, okay. I told my lawyer, when do we get in front of the judge? He says, tomorrow morning. I said, good. Got in front of the judge.

I said, you let me talk. He goes, Your Honor, my client would like to say something. He goes, you sure you want to talk without your lawyer? I go, yes, Your Honor. He goes, okay, what do you want to say? I said, this marshal right here threw my bag in the garbage. He said he wasn't my red cap.

He goes, he what? I go, you heard me. He threw my stuff in the garbage. The judge says, get up. Come over here. Did you throw his bag in the garbage? Yeah. He goes, what does it say

when I send you to get a prisoner? What does it say on the sheet the prisoner and his belongings did he lose his job for that no no he didn't lose his job he had to pay me listen listen but there's priceless stuff not just your memory your memories are priceless but your legal shit isn't yeah but i could get copies of that the judge said i'll get you copies of all that but what happened was he said the judge says to me go in the back with your lawyer I'm going to give you paper and pen write down everything that was in that bag

and put a price tag on it so I came back and I go your honor there's a couple things that I couldn't put a price tag on like my children's pictures like you said my children's pictures and my children's letters my legal work the judge said I'll get your legal work I said okay you children's pictures and my children's letters. My legal work, the judge said, I'll get your legal work.

I said, okay. You worked it out with my lawyer. And, you know, other things that I bought there that I know being clementically sealed, I could bring into the prison, like a radio, things like that I could have, you know. He said, well, you put, I said, I put 2,500. He goes, that's not enough. The judge said that. Yeah, I go, well, 2, a price. I said, I put $2,500. He goes, that's not enough.

The judge said that. Yeah, I go, well, $2,500 is about what I spent. He goes, yeah, but did you put a price on your son's and your daughter's papers? I go, no. He goes, your pictures? No. He goes, okay.

He goes, let's make it $7,500. I go, that's up to you, Your Honor. I said $2,500. So he goes, $2,500 so he goes $2,500 told the guy not the marshal service but you you're going to pay for this because you took it upon yourself to throw it away

now if one of your superiors told you to throw it away tell me right now and he'll pay for it why would he say something he could rat on his friends he's in trouble so he just said it was me your honor so the judge some before he gets back to mcc excuse me before he gets back to mcc make sure that 7500 is in his account so they were holding you a metropolitan correction center yeah new york mcc and then did you plead out yeah i had

no choice yeah i had 35 defendants co-defendants and i was the only one there and they all came to me and said please lou we only got 14 months please don't don't ruin our lives now we're married got kids lou don't do that to us yeah i go i'm not gonna do nothing but you guys all blame me you know everybody the domino theory i'm at the end of that domino. Were they testifying against you? They would have. Oh. So I said,

you guys are all going to testify against me because you got deals. 14 months. The most they ever got was 14 months. 18 months was the highest sentence. And I got banged. How long did you go in for? 15.

I went from Otisville, MCC to Otisville, Otisville to Lewisburg, Lewisburg to Coleman, Florida. How did they decide to move you around in prisons? Like, why did they move you? They have a fight.

I had a fight with a Latin king in the prison. Really? Guy wanted to be a Latin king. So this guy, Angel, was the head of the Latin king. He was going out with my stepsister. Wait, wait. Angel, who's not in the prison. Who's in prison.

He's in prison with you. Going out with my sister. I didn't know. He's going out with your stepsister. My stepsister. She lives in Patterson. How long was he in jail for? A couple of years.

Okay. So this kid wants to be a Latin king. He keeps telling Angel, I want to be a Latin king. So Angel sees me walking the mess hall. I never walk in the mess hall because i had my own food so i walk in today because a friend of mine goes well i want to get the chicken will you get the chicken for me what do you mean you had your own food i would buy food at the commissary and cook my own meals oh got it okay so i would go to get the chicken so he could have the chicken because the guys in the line knew me real good. They gave me extra chicken.

And I would give it to my friend because he was starving. So I gave it to him. I'm standing in line talking to him, waiting to get the chicken. And this kid comes up next to me. And I look at him. And I don't register fear because he's about 160 pounds. And I think, you know, he's not going to hit me. I turn back

talking to Ari, my friend, and the guy takes a swing and hits me right here. Boom! I went, you son of a... He had a ponytail. I grabbed the ponytail. I locked in. I pulled him back and I hit him. Bang!

The ponytail came out in my hand. It came out. I went, oof, wiped it off. And he hit the ground and I stepped over him. I got the chicken. I gave it to Harry. I walked down. I said, Harry, I got to go to the hole. I sat in front of the hole, which is

solitary confinement. They call it management control unit, MCU. So I'm standing outside MCU sitting on a milk cart. They're looking all over the prison for me. They don't see me sitting there. They call back to the unit. Everybody got to go back to the unit looking for me.

So everybody's in the unit. They have a count. I'm not there. I'm sitting on the box outside the hall. Finally, the captain comes down and looks across and sees me sitting there. He goes, Lou, you been there the whole time? I go, yeah. He goes, don't you hear the place going crazy looking for you? I go, I figured they'd find me sooner or later. This is where I'm going, right? He goes, yeah. I said, okay. So they opened the door and let me in. Next morning, the captain calls me out. He

goes, I want you to see this. I go, okay. So I come out. He goes, Lou, listen, we love you here. You protect all the weak guys. Guys get are getting extorted or getting beat up. The wardens don't? Yeah, no, the captain. Okay. He says, you take care of guys. You don't let them get hurt and stuff like that. We like that.

I know a lot of guys are getting beat up for no reason. They're extorting them for little things that they don't have enough. Maybe they have a bag of coffee. They want it. They extort the guy. They stab him. They have a bag of coffee, they want it, they extort the guy, they stab him, they have a bunch of guys going in and just take it. He goes, I take care of those guys.

He goes, we know, we know everything. He goes, I just wanted to show you what happened. He goes, because we like you here, we don't want nothing to happen to you. So look around you. Everything here is steel and concrete. You hit a guy with your left hook. He hits his head on that wall.

It's concrete. Or the bars. Then hits the concrete on the ground. He could be dead. Then what are you going to do? I go, I told you when I first came here, I would never hit nobody unless they hit me. Didn't they have it on tape?

Yeah, they had it. He showed me a video. I just want to show you something. Look at what you did. And he showed me. I saw the guy hit me. He goes, I'm not saying nothing. Just watch the film.

The guy hit me, and then I pulled his hair, and I punched him. He goes, 87% of his hair came out with that punch. He broke his cheekbone in his jaw. He swallowed seven of his teeth. And he cut his tongue that big. And he's in a coma. I go, he goes, I didn't know.

I go, he hit me. And I didn't know if there was more guys. Yeah, what are you supposed to do? I just grabbed the first one and hit him. And I was waiting for the next. He says to me, Lou, you didn't do nothing wrong. He goes, but you got to stay here. I go, why am I got to stay in the hole? He goes, right now you got to stay here. We'll work it out. I said, okay. Three months later, I called him. I said, I need to see the captain, bring him here. So the captain comes, I go, hey, what's going on? When am I getting out of here? He goes, I'm afraid to let you out.

I go, you're afraid for me? He goes, no, no, no, no. I'm not afraid for you. I'm afraid for them. Because if some of them said something, you're going to knock, put another one in a coma. He goes, oh, I'm afraid for them. He goes, I told you, we like you. He goes, I'm going to make you the orderly here. I'm going to leave your cell open. You can walk around and help the other guys do their laundry, help them out, bring the food if they want extra food. There's always extra food. You could bring guys who are hungry. You could take care of them all.

I go, I'll do that. And I made a library. I read over 900 books in a year I was there. 900 books? All fiction, but I loved them. My brother would send me five, six books a week. What did you like to read? I read everything Clancy wrote.

Everything Clancy wrote. That's great. I read all James Patterson, all the serial killer books. Yeah. I read, there was a woman I read. I forget. But I read a lot of books. I read a lot of books, and they were all good.

There was one good book, if you ever want to get a good book, one good book by a guy who became a knight in England. They knighted him. I forget his name right now, but he wrote a book called Honor Among Thieves. Honor Among Thieves. You want to get that book. Okay. Well, I'm going to hear this later, so I don't need to write it down.

But 900 books a year. Well, in about a year and a half I read it. So I was there two years. And took me i put i built a library i got the he gave me the wood and i built a library shelves and i put all the books on the shelf so when i left the hall the guys who came in could have books to read this is in otisville yeah and so after all this then they move you then they move me why because the captain said i'm going to i'm going to be the assistant warden at coleman low low facility do you want to go with me i go where's coleman oh low security yeah i go i go where's coleman he said florida let's go so i went with him

and they gave me a job there is that uh did you go to lewisburg in between though yeah went to lewisburg on the way i he went to Lewisburg on the way. He went to Coleman on the plane. I went to Lewisburg and then Coleman. But he gave me a job as an aerobic instructor. I did step aerobics. I devised a whole program. And he bought me, how many steps do you need? He bought them.

And he gave me a thing with the microphone. And I had music. So you were the Russell Simmons of prison. I was the Russell Simmons. I was making songs. Is that his name? Curly-haired guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was doing so good.

I was doing so good at the aerobic thing that every time a senator or a congressman came through the prison, he would call me and say, Lou, I need you to do a class. And I would do the class. And I started getting fights because guys were losing weight and looking good from doing the class. But other guys,

I had a list. Only so many guys could go on the list. So guys were fighting. Cross guys' names, won't put their name on. So they're having piss fights. So the captain called me down. He goes, you got to stop the piss fights or i'm going to cancel the class that's ridiculous that's your job to stop the piss fights not mine i'm not a co so he goes you got to stop the piss fights so i said that night i went back to my cell and i thought i said i came back i told him i know how to stop it he goes how only guys six months to the door could take the class six months to

the door you could take the class to lose the weight you gained while being in prison for eating all the fat foods and just not doing nothing now you can work your ass off and get thin and look good to go home so people like i can see people sitting around not doing anything and not taking advantage of like going out and working out. But did they feed you a lot in there? You can eat whatever you want. No shit. Yeah. But it wasn't like in Spain.

Spain was nice. Spain, the vegetable truck drove in the yard. You bought your own vegetables. Then the meat truck came in. You bought your own meat. Lamb, chicken, fish, whatever you want. Steaks. You can buy whatever you want.aks goodbye whatever you want god damn so you were there when did you get out oh two yeah oh two

you came back to jersey and then you got so you got right back into boxing though because you were around it well i i got i started to uh i got a uh i got certified as a trainer when I was away. Yeah. So I went to work out at a gym when I was living in my apartment in New York. I have an apartment on 68th Street and 1st Avenue. Really? I've had it for 45 years. But my brother lives there now.

So I was living there because that's the last known address they had before I left to Spain. So that's where they made me live, and I went to a halfway house in the Bronx, but they said you got to get a job, so I looked for gyms because I got certified, so I found a gym in Woodhaven, Queens. Took two subways and a bus to get there,

and I was working at the gym, so I went downstairs one day to go use the bathroom and I turned the light on and I saw this big area. I said, oh my God, I could put some bags in here and we could do some boxing in here. I put a little ring. So I talked to the owner, Tony. I said, Tony, we'll get a little boxing in here. Really makes, you know, add some extra money, profits to the gym. He loved that. He said, okay, you do it all? I go, yeah, I'll do everything. I'll be a list of what I want.

So I listed it. They delivered it. We set it all up. And that place hit off like crazy. I was making so much money. I was charging $80 a session. And then it went up to 120. 120 a session in New York.

Damn. And it was off the- This is 02, 03, 04? Yeah, 02, 03. And I was off the... This is 020304? Yeah, 0203. And I was killing it. I was making so much money. Then one day, I walk into the gym, and a big box comes. It has my name on it. I go, what the hell is this?

So I open it up, and it's all new clothes. It's all workout clothes. You know, the newest stuff, Nike. I go, God damn it. There's a little letter in there, and I read it. It was from an old girlfriend. She goes, I heard you got out. I heard you're doing good.

I just wanted to say happy birthday, because my birthday was in two days. I just wanted to say happy birthday. So I called her, because they had left the number there. I said, thank you so much. I can't believe you did that for me. It was really nice. She goes, oh, I want to see you.

We ended up talking, and we got married. Oh, that was the fourth wife. That was the fourth wife. Oh, oh, I want to see you. We ended up talking, and we got married. Oh, that was the fourth wife. That was the fourth wife. Oh, my God. That's hysterical. And then she started drinking, and I couldn't take it no more. She started drinking a bottle of wine to make dinner, a bottle of wine with dinner, and a bottle of wine after dinner.

And she got like, I said, I can't do this. I'm done. Lou, you tell a story about as good as anyone who's been on here. I'm just looking at the clock now. I think we're like over three hours. I could talk with you all day, but I want to bring you back at some point. So there's a lot we didn't get to today that I'd love to cover with you. Anytime.

This was awesome. Thank you for doing it so much. Anytime, buddy. As a matter of fact, it's not that bad of a drive. No, it's not. I tell you, probably half my people come from New York, half are from Philly. I've had like five or six from Miami. And that's been a diaspora.

People from New York, they either drive down here or they take it to the train. I pick them up. We're over here. We get in. We're done. And that's it. It's not too bad. But I appreciate you coming down a lot.

It's great to see your face. Your face that I saw like every day or not every day but several times a week for years before the pandemic. I haven't seen you. So it's good to catch up and looking forward to being up there in Ray's place again soon. Oh, God. When you get to Ray's place, you're going to flip out. I mean it's really – and i hope that i could find space next to ray and open up next to him because it's really that that amazing i mean if ray stays where he is

and i open up i don't think he'll let carlos open up because i don't think carlos would survive with me there well you you got i mean you bring the whole history behind you too people come people come to train with you yeah i i i like people we i get along with a lot of people we get yeah i get a client they stay with me forever like tom remember tom tom riley of course i remember tom riley tom just i'd love to have tom on actually i don't know if he could do it though because he's you know he works in uh in connecticut now which company another drug company it's not um not novartis yep no no not novartis he went somewhere he went to amgen right after that right then he went now he's in another place up in connecticut somewhere in the brand new sports car he drives up and down i met him love

that he's tom riley for my money is one of the best guys i've ever met he bought a beautiful house down the shore he's doing really good i actually can't believe he bought a sports car because i couldn't believe it either he's the most that guy when he was i look he ran global oncology financial planning for nevartis i mean he's not missing any meals and he was driving a fucking toyota and i'm like i love that like he's driving like a seven-year-old toyota guys listening to like ted talks on his way to work and the best part about him is he comes in there and trains at 6 a.m with you and then fucking spars with a guy we finish our work up at the same time we're our workout at the same time we're talking he go he

puts on his suit goes across the street and gives a speech to 150 people around the globe exactly for his and i'm just like god what a savage so i love i love the guys like that train with you and obviously like i had john schneider in here he loves you zach i mean you know zach came up through you and and doing everything he did there it's amazing to see what he's doing but i could talk with you all day man i i it's it's great to see you it's great being here we'll do this again and i think everyone's going to enjoy this one because you tell a story unbelievably i'm ready i'm ready i'll tell you some crazy stuff when i come back all right we'll

do it we'll do it lou love you thank you sir love you more buddy appreciate it everybody else you Get back to me. Peace.