Julian Dorey Podcast - #76 - Drake, Kanye, Drill Rap, & Music Culture; Debating the Kyle Rittenhouse Case; The Passing of Virgil Abloh; The Travis Scott Astroworld Tragedy: Tobi "Mus" Mustafa

Episode Date: December 1, 2021

Tobi “Mus” Mustafa is a political/social commentator & podcaster. He currently Co-Hosts the “Faces of The Future” Podcast. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Debating the Kyle Rittenhouse Case; The Andrew Coffee Case; Jury Bias 38:41 - The nature of racism discussion; The Julius Jones case 59:15 - Kanye West’s appearance on “Drink Champs” with NORE and his cultural impact; Mus reviews the Kanye’s DONDA Album; The cycle of influence across rap 1:25:38 - Drill Rap and what’s behind it; Mus gives his theory on why we’ve hit a music “bubble”; UK Drill artists have stories too; Our culture bias in America 1:39:28 - Drake vs. Kanye; Why Drake is Amazon; Anticipation Marketing; Wale vs. J Cole 2:08:23 - The downstream culture fap has created; Julian argues why he thinks DONDA was a great album; Baby Keem’s come up and Mus’ Conspiracy Theory about his first album, “The Melodic Blue” 2:23:20 - RIP Virgil Abloh; Abloh’s legacy as the founder of Off White; His Work with Kanye West; Julian and Mus debate the merits of cultural appropriation using Kylie Jenner, The Lion King, and Adam Levine as examples 2:45:42 - The Travis Scott Astroworld Tragedy and ensuing controversy, facts of the case yet to come out, narratives that the media/internet is pumping and narratives they’re ignoring ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q  ~ Get $100 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover: https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier  Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey  ~ Beat provided by: https://freebeats.io  Music Produced by White Hot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So you're hosting the family barbecue this week, but everyone knows your brother is the grill guy, and it's highly likely he'll be backseat barbecuing all night. So be it. Impress even the toughest of critics with freshly prepared Canadian barbecue favorites from Sobeys. Kind of like how I compared like Kanye to Apple. It's like Drake is really like, it's kind of very similar to Amazon. He's very, very similar to Amazon. It's in a point where it's like, he's so good at every single facet, not at rap, but at music. But it's like, when you go to Drake, you remember that Drake

was originally a rapper. Amazon originally started selling books, but they just started doing everything. They started branching out, experimenting a little bit, and thening out experimenting a little bit and then they figured out it works and then they figured out the formula what's cooking everybody we are back we're back we're back we're back we are getting dug back if you know you know back. If you know, you know. Anyway, I appreciate you guys hanging in there while I was in COVID quarantine and having to take a solo pod last week. But I am back on my feet. We have a guest in studio. And on that note, I am joined in the bunker today by my friend, Mr. Toby Moose, Mustafa. Moose is one of the co-hosts of the Faces of the Future podcast, along with Miles Matthews and Shannon Johnson, who have also both been in here. Those guys are terrific. Check out their show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, love what they do, love their conversations.

And I love Moose's contradictions on a lot of things. Moose is not afraid to say what he thinks and he has beliefs that are all over the place. So I really, really appreciate that when I get a chance to sit down with him and talk with him. But today we did get to actually discuss what I had brought up talking to myself last week on the solo pod with the whole Rittenhouse case. We got someone else's viewpoint on that, thought that was great. And then the whole middle of the podcast was a giant deep discussion on music and culture and we haven't done enough of that in here in my opinion so it's really really good to get that we got really deep in the weeds which i loved talking about different artists different styles within music and ways that it's impacted everyone outside of just the music itself

and then on the back end we discussed two things that are sad situations the first one is virgil abloh completely unexpectedly because no one knew he was battling cancer but virgil abloh the founder of off-white passed away and that happened right before we started recording so we were recording on sunday a couple days before this episode and that news was horrible so at least we got to address it and discuss it in here but that guy's impact is going to go far beyond where his life unfortunately was was cut very very short and then on the back end the the second sad thing there was the whole travis scott concert fiasco And I'm obviously a fan of Travis Scott. People have heard me talk about him before,

but we hadn't discussed it here. So it was good to kind of go through it. I do have a lot of thoughts. I also think that a lot more still needs to come out as far as like who really knew ahead of time, who was being reported to minus just the videos we see. But it's a horrible situation because people go to concerts trying to have a good time and the idea

That like people would go somewhere and dies Incredibly incredibly sad so we did get to talk about that not to be a downer on the end there But really really enjoyed this convo very much needed. We are back in the saddle the pod is back with the guests Hope you guys enjoy this one and as always if you're on YouTube, please subscribe Please like the video as well. Thank you to everyone who does that. And if you're on Apple or Spotify and you are not already subscribed on Apple or following on Spotify, please hit those buttons for me. And I look forward to seeing you guys again for future episodes. That said, you know what it is.

I'm Julian Dory, and this is Trendify. Let's go. This is one of the great questions in our culture. Where is the nuance? You're giving opinions and calling them facts. You feel me? Everyone understands this, but few seem to do it.

If you don't like the status quo, start asking questions we all have our stories you know what i mean like shannon obviously has a story when he came in he was talking about what he was talking about his story comes from the fact his story and what he's saying is coming from the fact that you know his fiancee is from where she's from it's the same thing what miles she was the one by the way just for people episode 53 his fiancee is from where she's from. It's the same thing with Miles. She was the one, by the way, just for people, episode 53, his fiance is from Israel. Yes. That's what he was talking about. Because he was in here when that was like, when she was hitting the fan.

Yeah. I don't want to be all on his, I don't want to put all his information out there. So that's why I was being a little. It's already out. I mean, yeah, that's true. I'll be the bad guy. It's already out. Yeah, true.

But it's like, I was saying that from a sense of like, we all have, from where he's coming from, his reference point is, yo, you have a fiance that's Israeli and everything that you're saying is not based off of the fact that like you you're like, how do I say this? You're not being a dick about it. You're just saying the truth because this is what you're being told. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's like, say, for example, I'm just throwing this out there. Well, actually, no, I'll use this as an example.

Someone like Kyle Rittenhouse, you know know when we come in let's go when we come in and you see him on on fox news talking about oh my gosh if this was a black kid that did the same thing it's like it would be terrible but it's like yeah you're right saying that but you're saying this on fox news and you as a 17 year old kid who probably has like 40 year old parents understand a narrative that's being that's being projected in that you saying that on fox news wait say that again so i i understand your point you're making on you can't get in on biased news source on the second part. But you're saying he was going on and saying what about if it were a black kid? Basically, he did an interview.

I did not watch his interview, by the way. I didn't. I didn't watch the interview. I watched like – honestly, truly, I'll be honest with you. I did the internet thing and saw the clip and I saw him on Fox News and I'm just turned off by fox news so i didn't i just like nah i'm not doing it yet okay so it said he said something along the lines of like hey like i'm so like i'm happy of like how like the the court case came out like oh my gosh like i'm paraphrasing here like this would be so scary if this was like someone else with like a different race or like an african-american doing something

similar like this along those lines like i'm not what did he mean by that basically what he's saying is that because he got off he got off you know he found he was found innocent and because you know he felt he was found innocent for all the stuff that happened he's saying that if an african-american male you know or woman came in you know got a gun drove across state and came into a protest that they wouldn't receive the same justice that he did oh he did say that and yeah but the thing but why that looks so wild to me is because of the fact that like you premeditated you you you were everything that you did was premeditated you bought a gun to go to a protest well well in a sense in a sense let me and and i want to make sure we we get it right so that

you know we can have the conversation and go through it to be clear and you and i did talk about this one part with the gun when we were setting up the studio but technically even as someone who's i didn't used to be this way but i'm extremely conservative on guns now i don't like the idea like i'm not going to sit there and take an instagram with him but like i'm not going to get into that but yeah even as someone who's of that opinion the gun laws in wisconsin are a little weird yeah so the whole thing was his buddy who actually is going to get probation and like is in court and gonna have to pay a fine and shit for doing this his buddy had an agreement with him where a year six months before this or something he bought the gun because the buddy was 18 and said he'll hold it and then give it to kyle when he's 18 yeah so

the idea the fact that he was still 17 and using the gun yeah i said this in my solo podcast i had to do during covid when i had covid i was like you can't tell me that he knew when he was going there that he wasn't breaking the law he definitely didn't know that okay because it was a complicated thing so like that that was another dumb decision but technically technically he didn't he didn't break any of their laws and he had been there he wasn't driven there by his mom that night he had been there in in kanasha for over a day so he was already there yeah but my thing is it's still it's still for me it's still about the fact of like you still went there premeditated you know what i mean and my like to the actual event yeah that's my whole

thing it's not about like it's more so about you premeditated you you had a premeditated thought to go over there and for whatever reason i don't know i'm not but the concept was you still went there with a gun he thought he was getting paid probably that was no that was really yeah he said he thought he was getting paid yeah they were they were under the impression that because all these riots have been happening over the summer in other cities and businesses had been burning they were like this is why i'm saying like he's not a hero at all another reason he thought that people were being paid i don't know if this was even accurate but he thought people were being paid to go protect these businesses so they were

like fuck it let's go make some money and protect some businesses is that what was is that what he said yes yes and people again everything we say on this please fucking fact check it yourself we're doing it live in here that is my understanding from what i've read i i'm pretty sure i remember it correctly But please fact check that yourself. So I don't know if he said in court, but that was said it's to be clear He said that he thought that they were going to get paid defending businesses. Yes, and So not for nothing did the

prosecution didn't question him about that or I think I thought they did but there was nothing to really question about it because the idea was that you just show up and you're there and if shit hits the fan you're there to do something whereas the argument was over because we had all the all three on video all three there were two killings and one guy got shot in the arm yeah the argument was over okay let's assess this and see what was happening. And when you watch the actual videos and when you listen to the testimony that was there, that is at least corroborated by video, otherwise eyewitness testimony can be very, very unreliable if you didn't have that. Yes, it was very clear self-defense. My argument has been, okay, fine. It really shouldn't have

been a case. I feel bad that a kid had to go through that. Unfortunately, that happens sometimes. They came to the right decision. What I don't want to see happen is him canonized because it was stupid that he was there. He shouldn't have been there. There's no reason, in my opinion, for a 17-year-old to look at a situation where shit's hitting the fan. He's not even really supposed to have this gun and saying, you know i think i'll go down there with the gun and defend defend the business what's the worst that could happen like if you do that that's that's a dumb decision yeah because

that was going to be my next question like my whole thing is that you're telling me that you went there to go defend businesses but at what point did you see an email or a Craigslist post that said, hey, we're paying you. Come down with a gun and then you'll be paid. I don't know that they're – so this was another piece of evidence. There was some sort of post. I don't know if it talked about payment, but they confirmed that that couldn't have been what he was looking at because his social media, he wasn following them at all didn't know anything about it but i don't know the answer to what you're saying is i don't know if there was like a written announcement or something or if people were just texting him like oh we're getting paid to do it i don't know what it was that was just his impression and that's my thing it's like

like let's like let's be and this is and this is what i mean about this is where my whole thing about stories come in it's like you're like the whole story is that let's go with let's go with that so in the midst of in the midst of the protest of you know jacob blake maude albury um why am i missing the last name this is not good uh george floyd george floyd thank you in the midst of those three people we have people have peaceful protests we now saw online which has been confirmed where people have been

people that were not a part of the protest started inciting riots correct people were I'm not going to say who people were planting bricks doing all these different things minus Portland

yeah they're an outlier but yes there were people doing those things and at a at that point we're now looking at this saying that okay if we saw this on the internet a business who has insurance who has insurance would now come regardless if it's word of mouth or not like i'm just the story is like okay businesses would come now and say hey we need people to come and defend our businesses it's like like when you look at it it's like when you're telling that when you tell the story in such a way it's like that's that's so weird here's here's how i would see it

from their way and where i'll agree and and yes is it true that a lot of businesses have insurance yes do any of the policies like almost any of them cover everything let alone the fact that you're put out of business for however long you don't even have a place no they don't and it can it it kills a lot of businesses when they burn down and so that can't happen obviously yes of course i'm always going to be like lives over businesses i i get that but that's apples to fucking ice cream here like the bottom line is there were people a lot of no good people coming in who don't give a fuck about black lives matter jacob blake they're just coming there to stir some shit which by the way

the at least the first guy he shot absolutely was that on steroids yeah and you know the businesses in this one in kenosha kenosha kenosha they had the precedent of having seen what happened in minneapolis having seen what was if this was in august so they had seen what had happened all summer so i fully understand if there was some paranoia there in those places i get it and i'm with it again though what i'm not gonna get with is the idea that like it was a 17 year old kid who decided he needed to go down there and be batman that's not that doesn't work and that's my and that's where my whole thing comes in it's like no matter how i look at it it's like a 17 year old boy and i'm not taking out the aggression taking out the aggression everything

taking that out for example and bring that in it's like this boy still came down premeditated to come and defend businesses at the age of 17 for what reason like it's like at what point do and i'm not saying this to be rude but it's like at what point do your parents also use common sense to now be like oh it's like all right cool, I don't think that's a good idea because I wouldn't want you to be in that space regardless of what you know. And so for me, I'm looking at this and it's like this whole thing happened. Someone drove you down. You stayed down there for a day and you still at the age of 17. I don't remember someone.

I think his mom. I think he did catch a ride with him. But again, it was a day before it was to this. But my whole thing is that like that that that shouldn't happen like you're 17 bro like well i mean the driving there yeah there was nothing going on when she drove no yeah no i'm not saying i i just want to make sure people are clear what you're saying but i'm saying in a sense of like yo like even if there is a protest why are you going out with a gun in like i get it but it's like you're 17 and you went out there with a gun whatever intention at that point like you have to understand when you're in that type of situation

where there's riots there's things going on no matter what the situation is that intent like people are not thinking straight in those types of situations when people are rioting so my thing is that like if i see somebody with a gun even if i'm a peaceful protester if i pack that thing on me at whatever whatever happens if i see you with a gun i don't know what you're gonna do with that you know what i'm saying there is also so it's like it's weird to me it's weird there's two levels to it we've touched them a little bit but i'm gonna put it in context to give like the story if you just looked at this if you are someone who is right wing or left wing and you put aside whatever you

want your fairy tale ending to be here or however you want to call it and just look at the facts so that we can move the fuck on from this case and understand that there is some shit that it's like all right we don't want to ever see that again reasonably reasonable thing to say the action of him as we've covered deciding to go there taking the gun that he definitely didn't know the full law so he got lucky but that was careless all that was dumb yeah when dumb doesn't break the law yeah it's not negligence so it's it's not that is not prosecutable so once he's there he's already done a dumb thing yeah but. But technically, he didn't break the law. He was free to do it.

Yeah. He didn't break the law. Once he's there, whether or not having a gun there is not a helpful thing, and I would say it's not helpful. If you are then, like, forget who you are, where you are, what the situation is, what your age is, what your race is, what your background is, your socioeconomic status. Forget all that. If you are then threatened, like your life is legitimately threatened, as we have seen on video, it is crystal clear once these things actually happen. Yes, he was in danger of dying. In fact, one person had a gun and was aiming it at him.

I mean it got that bad. The other guy was hitting him with a blunt force object and coming after him and going for the gun. And the first guy was running, pinning him in cars, going for the gun. If your life is threatened, you are permitted, and you have it legally right there, you are permitted and need to be permitted to defend yourself. When I hear the law and it says, don't kill people, that makes sense to me. It's a very simple thing if you are legitimately and again thank god there's video to be able to say

one way or the other because like if he had just killed people we'd see it if he had acted in self-defense as it appears he did we see it if you are in that situation yeah you have to be able to defend yourself so what we should be saying is that not a hero dumbass kid got lucky that none of the dumb decisions he made broke laws but then once he was there yes technically he acted okay but it that's never an outcome anyone wants to see yeah no that's true i will say though i like i said i'm not 100% versed in the law but i'm just what makes me why why i feel iffy about the case and the gun charge and everything like that not talking about wisconsin but i am thinking about the situation of now you did bring into the gun you did bring a gun into another state and we don't know the

rules of that state for guns because i was talking because i was talking to somebody who has a gun and he lives in either alabama florida one of those oh he's hooked up then yeah he was he was expressing to me like yo when i take a when i do want to come to jersey i don't fly into jersey because i do security and i'm like i'm flying through philly it's either philly yeah he says he says he flies in through philly and then he gets his gun he does everything he needs to do and then he drives into jersey and the only reason why so he flies in with the gun to philly yeah i believe so i'm not i'm not i'm paraphrasing here because i don't remember the conversation 100 but i'm using this as an example to say like there has to be there has to be something that expresses that with whatever gun laws you still

have to abide by those state rules so while yeah Wisconsin may not have like rules that would have broken the law I just find it weird that he we weren't looking at it from the Kenosha was a Kenosha Kenosha is a weird state I don't remember state that's in that's in Wisconsin it isn't one constant okay yeah so basically I'm just it's weird because on the border and it was okay that's probably why yeah so my thing is that, like, I just, it's just weird because it's like, at what, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't know if there is any laws, whether, from where he came from, that would forbid him to do that, or if not- There weren't and my then my thing is it's it's just weird to me like because there has to be some type of restrictions or anything like that but i don't know maybe there isn't maybe there is either way it's just weird it's just that whole thing is just for like i said i just think that

laws like when you have laws when you have trials like this these things tell a story you know what i'm saying and it's like going back to everything you're telling this story of however the court case goes is that when people look back at this in history it's like okay this is the story they told and this is the situation we're allowed to do this like all law is just storytelling and people being able to yeah and you're being able to influence that story in a way that you want it to go and so for me looking at it like i said just you're telling the story and it just for me just in the height of everything when you use the context as well it just came off very iffy.

Even though we understand that he didn't technically break any laws, when you look back on when the case was, it looks very iffy to me. I agree with exactly what you said there. And again, as I even said, being someone who's very open on guns and wants very few laws there what i will say is that i don't think that applies to people below the age of 18 and he still was below the age of 18 i think that's a dangerous when you start saying like yeah have your 11 year old pick up a gun to just fucking do it i'm not talking about going out and hunting a deer with a rifle i'm talking about like picking up an ar-15 i think that's fucking stupid i think it's also probably a form of bad parenting my opinion but that's that's what i think

the bottom line is the way you just put that is probably better than i did but that is what i was trying to say the first half of it is all iffy the case that he was on trial for, which was the self-defense, to me, with video, add the testimony to it, yeah, it's crystal clear. But that's it. Now let's be done with it. And that's unfortunately not how our society works because we have the people propping them up as a hero. And then we also have the people coming in who have literally not watched a second of

the case nor reviewed a single fact who are literally spewing lies and and I hesitate to call it for some of them that because I I legitimately think that it's actually just carelessness in that they're not looking and they're just assuming what they're hearing on the internet is correct so I won't sit here and say all of them are liars I'm not going to do that still though carelessness is not an excuse to me it's like if you're talking about people's lives I don't care what the background is or what's going on we need to treat everything with the same energy which is why by the way guys i say it every week i'm going to say it again i'm going to shout it from the rooftops because it applies to all of you and i'm just trying to help you out but i have

been getting the best sleep of my life since i started using the eight sleep pod pro cover because the other ironic thing here is that I'm also sleeping the least amount of hours or number of hours I should say that I ever have and yet I am more rested than ever because I don't get up in the middle of the night. Maybe once. I used to get up three, four times minimum. That is because 8 Sleep's proprietary app has their proprietary technology that plugs right into that sucker and makes sure that I'm getting the deepest level of sleep throughout each of my quote-unquote sleep stages throughout the night. It measures things like my body temperature, my REM, and a whole bunch of other factors to make sure that happens such that when I wake up in the morning after sleeping maybe six hours, I feel like I slept eight. So use the link in my description

along with the code trendifier at checkout that's t-r-e-n-d-i-f-i-e-r and you will get 100 off either the eight sleep pod pro cover as I use or the eight sleep pod pro mattress which is double the price does the same thing but it's a full mattress so if you want to get a full mattress you can do that I would highly recommend it but if you want to keep your current mattress as I did get the cover you'll love it check it out a case that I had no previous knowledge of whatsoever had never heard of it had never read about it knew nothing about it learned all about it last week because I was like holy this is weird timing that Andrew coffee case inida yeah that was the one where he um that's when we shot the cops right yes yeah and so i went through this now a lot and i'm like and

and i i feel like i have a very good understanding of the case but to me you know i'll be critical on this show and certainly a lot of guests have been too of problems in our legal system in our justice system and you should be you you want everything to the goal is to get things to perfect it'll never get there but you want to keep improving and so yeah i i think we we do have bias problems i think we do have issues and and it comes down to a lot of different things it certainly comes down to race and situations it comes down to socioeconomic status based on what you can afford for representation so there's all these issues that that certainly got to get fixed but when i see things where it's like all right there's a

few steps in the right direction where it's like some things are better i'm going to point that out yeah and this andrew coffee case did please look it up everyone but the cliff note version is andrew coffee was a convicted felon not for for overly serious shit, but it was for, ironically, it was for back when he was like 16, like battery with a law, he got in a fight with a police officer, which was dumb, but that was what it was for. And then he was on trial for four years ago. He woke up in the morning. His house was unknowing to him, being raided with a warrant by a lot of police not for him it was

for his father who's selling some low-level drugs and so he saw a gun barrel in his window no and he shot back and he grabbed the gun which i don't give a fuck who you are i'll be conservative 90 percent of people in the same situation would do the same thing and they have a right to and so when he did i think he killed a couple cops i got to go check that I forget if it was one or two either way he killed police officers unknowing that they were police officers Florida red state killing cops convicted felon black guy like this is it this is this is a legal system special right yeah the jury who I think was mostly white here you looked at it and went no we're sorry they died it wasn't

really the cops were executing a warrant when we figure out how the legality of that but they were doing their job it's not their fault in a way but yeah this guy had a right to do that yeah and so i'm like okay the same day that a lot of people were still making this Kyle Rittenhouse thing to be a race thing, like, real quick on that, and I actually want your thoughts on that too. from at that point what were rioters out there that had nothing they don't represent what people who want to represent quote-unquote black lives matter are trying to progress these were just idiots out there causing anarchy yeah and yet we made it this white supremacy thing the place where they do tie that in where it's like okay I understand at least where you're coming from is that if this were a black guy who'd done the same thing he'd be in jail forever and no one would care maybe and historically i might not even disagree two things though number one just because that might be true and it is totally unfair that doesn't mean that

because it'd be true there you find someone else guilty just to be even that's never the answer right even if it's a white guy, that's not the answer. I get what you're saying. The second reason is, though, the same day we saw, and it's one case. We are, to be clear, we are cherry-picking one case here. In both directions, but we're cherry-picking. We saw a case where there was a black man who also happened to be a convicted felon, with felonies against the cops, technically, who shot cops in a red state yeah and a jury looked at it and said

unfortunate but yes self-defense that's what it is and so i'm like i don't know if that would have happened five years ago and that makes me at least go okay there's a couple things going right and then look you saw a slam dunk one a few days i mean thank god it was a slam dunk but we saw that georgia jury deliberate for i mean i think it was like eight hours or something to come back with 27 charges most of which were guilty on the arbury thing so it's like hey man like even in some of the stereotyped states and everything and issues where it's like well are they going to treat this right? Black man being killed in broad daylight? They did. And it's like, okay,

these are some positive steps. And I do want to be positive when I see that. I'll say about the Ahmaud Arbery case, I will say, I think the best way to put it is, I will say that I am one of those people that are very skeptical about if the pandemic wasn't around and the same thing happened, if we would still get the same result. Because like I said, when we look at it and we look at what was presented to us, we had somebody running who's being chased and he got hunted down and killed as if we are in the night like we're in 1955 and my thing is that while yeah you're 100 right this is a step in a positive

direction but i always seem to question would this be a step would you guys still make this step if the pandemic wasn't around and we were all not sitting at home because my thing is that we look at the george floyd we look at what happened with um derek chauvin you know what i mean it's like this shit happens all the time this shit has happened with a lot of other people you know what i mean but the thing is is that we weren't all at home sitting being forced to look at this to understand that yo this is some bullshit and so now because we were forced to look at it it's almost like how do i say this even though we know that juries shouldn't be biased it's like you still you still have a bit of bias in a sense where it's like yo you know what's going on right now whether or not you try to ignore it or not there's always going to be a

biased and the reason why i say that real quick before like it's like it's like when you look at juries right what a lot of people don't understand about juries is that they pick obviously the prosecution and defense pick certain people um i'll use this for example i forgot who expressed who explained this to me but it made perfect sense it's like when a woman gets raped right to be graphic sorry about that um what they'll do is they'll try as much as possible for the jury to try to stay away from women i could be wrong on this if anybody's a lawyer i believe that's correct yeah they try to stay away from women yeah they try to stay away from women they make the woman the the the woman who was a victim

they make her dress as conservatively as possible they have her hair tied up they make her wear glasses she doesn't wear any type of revealing clothing long skirt everything the prosecution yeah the prosecution yeah the prosecution. Yeah, the prosecution. So that's how when they go up there and they look at her, what happens is that you put her in a position where it's like, okay, well, this is the first time we're seeing her, and she looks like this type of person. A lot of times what happens is that now if she were to come in

dressing as if she was going out on a Saturday night, it's like, yo, not for nothing, even though people, even though we say that this is the wrong thing to do, a lot of people will think this yo like you dress like this this this is not this time to throw you out you drinking with your girls you dancing on everybody i'm not saying she deserved it but she didn't put herself in the best position i'm not saying that's my opinion but i'm just saying a lot of people think that way and a lot of people will have that thought but won't say it because obviously at the

end of the day it's still on the person that still sexually assaulted that woman but what a lot of people will have that thought but won't say it because obviously at the end of the day it's still on the person that still sexually assaulted that woman but what a lot of people will say oh yeah that's that's her fault putting herself in that position but the idea of what i'm saying is that what happens with juries is that juries still have some type of bias in how they look at people everybody has some type of bias because their reference point is different and you're also saying how they're built though like on purpose to build in the bias yeah and that's the and that's the second point as well it's like when you go into court it's like that that jury is built in so it's supposed to be neutral or what i'll say is i'll say this is that the bias is neutral so that's how it's like if you have six women and six men right these men are all majority i'll say majority hispanic they're all fathers

there's down to 30 have women say some may be mothers some may be single the bias is even because now you have fathers on there who know damn i don't give a fuck what happens no one's about to go rape my daughter versus some of the single women and some of the mothers are like well i don't want my daughter dressing like this or i don't want my daughter like this or the single girls are like well she shouldn't be dressed like that she may even though she didn't ask for it i don't want her putting herself in that position to do x y and z so now the bias becomes even so now when it goes to the court and they give you the unbiased opinion it's like well you're not using your bias to make that decision you know what i'm saying even though whether or

not people really think about it so i mean it's it's it's interesting in jury deliberations and things of that nature and that's part of the reason why i'm saying what i'm saying when we look at these things the jury knew what was going on like in the height of racial tent we watched a man get executed you know what i mean and they try it by the way and i'll just say this which is kind of ridiculous when you think about modern day culture they also try to work in that they get people who are blissfully and they might be lying about, who are blissfully unaware of what had happened or never saw the video or something, which is like, that's still crazy to me. Do you ever sit back and think about how wild that system is? Yeah.

And it's actually amazing in a way because setting up the jury, even though we're pointing out all these places where it can be taken advantage of or like cooked by experts and stuff like that, certainly going to have flaws. But you set up people who are just regular Joes who live in your town or live in a city, whatever. They're not in the government. It's not like you have this all-powerful body who can do unabated whatever they want but like you get these 12 random people in there who last week before they were listening to this trial about 12 killings or 12 homicides last week they were cooking dinner for their kids or they were going to their nine to five and now they're sitting in there listening intently for two three four weeks at a time sometimes two three months if a trial is insane yeah and then they go back into a room and they deliberate your ability to be free or not at any point for the rest of your

life come back sit down in the seats look at you when they hand a paper to a judge knowing they just sealed your fate or freed you and watch you as you react to the fact of whether or not you are going to be considered a criminal for the rest of your life and live in a jail cell or you're going to walk the fuck out of the courtroom that day because you've been found innocent by your peers that is fucking insane to me it's definitely insane and that's why i think it's like it's always important when we think about that it's like you always have to i don't know what they ask in jury duty because i've never been i've never been asked to do it knock on wood but um it's it's just one of those things where i just think that yet i understand there are just some things to me where i just feel like yeah you

should go to jail um i also believe that in some cases you people do deserve to be um people do deserve second chances i will say that in terms of america i would say that when we talk about these things when we make people criminals i just think that the biggest issue about it is that you're right, that this stuff is wild. But the only reason why it's wild is because these people go and become criminals, and then there's no way to essentially bring them back into society in a healthy way. I forgot what country it was. It might have been Australia or some European country. When you go to jail... Europe, it's not Australia.

Are you sure yeah okay these are you know these are always cited it's like they'll cite i'm just remembering what i hear they'll always cite like sweden norway some some of the those states so i was going to say it's like states some of these states some of these countries don't have you um like you're you're basically rehabbing in a sense not in a sense of like oh my gosh you're just in a jail cell doing nothing like they're trying to make you become a better functioning member of society right and my problem with with the i'll say the incarceration system has been just that because it's like we just throw these people in there and it's like well we're throwing you on

parole i mean or you're a felon now it's gonna be hard for you to get a job or a good paying job and it's like we all know what happens when you're poor you know you can't really afford things and you're in a place where you know it's not the best you tend to go back to your vomit and what happens with that is you kind of stay in the system yeah and going back and like what the biggest issues that someone like for myself is like why that becomes an issue is because a lot of times people like me get that shit unnecessarily just because we don't look like people that look like right julian and i'm not saying that in a bad way but it's like no i know what you're saying and it's like and that's why that becomes such an issue

when we talk about things like the jury because it's like you have to understand that it's like not for let me not even say not for nothing like we built this country on racism like a discrimination we built this country in a sense where people like me were never really, in a sense, supposed to be free in a sense. So when we look at these situations, we now come back. And this has been the mindset of a lot of people who have started their ancestors here. So now these people who are descendants of just hypothetically speaking, a grand dragon master, whatever they're called in the ku klux klan or some white supremacists that are in princeton new jersey they come now and a black man like me

is on for a felony charge say for weed like two three years ago they're like well he they're not gonna say it out loud but it's like well he was probably doing something else like he needs to be in jail it's a bias and so why that becomes so important is going back to this case it's like we're saying oh yeah you wanted to make sure people didn't see the video. But I think that that bias is important because it's like it shows, one, what the fuck a lot of people have been talking about for a minute. And so now when you leave people alone in their own biases, this shit fucks up a lot of people. You know what I mean? And it's like and that's why I said, going back to this whole thing,

I'm really glad that they went to jail, but it's a step in the right direction, yes. But what we also need to do is, once again, it's about storytelling. We have to tell us what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. Who tells the story? Yeah, it's what happened to Ahmaud Arbery, what happened to George Floyd,

what happened to Alton Stone, what happened to all these people is that we were telling a story about, yo, the biases that we've had for this many years have fucked us up. Straight like that. It's put us in positions where we've been killed. It's put us in positions where we don't get

the fair share of the pie that they tell us that we have to pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and work for. And so now when we have these cases and we have to step in the right direction, I'm happy it but like i said i always question whether or not if we didn't have that bias of that video take that video out yeah i see what you're saying yeah take the fact that we're in a pandemic out well actually your point's even better taken because they didn't this wasn't a case until the video was released yeah and that's my thing and it's like we have that and it's like that's the whole thing the bias wasn't there we all sat home

where oh yeah well yeah he was probably black he had counterfeit money it's like a counterfeit 20 bill results in you doing that it's not worth a life and that's the biggest thing that we have to understand it's like with laws you tell a story it's the same thing with julius jones like the whole story like the whole story wasn't even told this man people what that case was um i talked about that last week my solo pod but i'm glad you brought that up julius jones correct me from julius jones was on death he was going to get executed as of like two weeks yeah as of two weeks ago um and i also have a problem with this kim kardashian had tweeted about it and. Cole had responded to the tweet as well. A lot of people responded.

And then they signed a petition. And I think the governor of that state, I forgot what state it was. Oklahoma. Oklahoma now came in and now he just said he's not getting executed, but he still has life in prison. He tried to make it. And he's wrong. He's just trying to win political points. He tried to give them what they wanted while also fucking them and saying you can never fight this which fortunately governor stitt if there is evidence

that can be presented in court there are other systems in place that people will find a way to get that into court so that's not going to work but he tried to be like the fuck it you're gonna you're gonna rot in prison i'm giving you what you want get the fuck off my lawn so i i look i appreciate him for at least not letting the guy die because now we will never if that had happened we would never be able to decide if he's innocent or not and again as i said last week i feel pretty good that he's innocent i'm not a hundred percent there's certainly some questions questions there. I'm about 80, 90%. I think I said 90 last week. I'm in that 80, 90%. But I am all about, like, if we found out 10 years from now, irrefutable evidence, he was guilty. I'm still happy that we go through the process to make sure we get it right. Yeah, no, I definitely would. I

definitely appreciate that. I just, I just look at it, and just from some of the stuff that I did read, I saw that during the case, his parents and his family was not up to be called to the witness stand. Apparently, the guy who was supposed to be written off as the getaway driver, apparently he admitted to like three people that he killed the guy, three different people that don't know each other. And I just find that really interesting. He also slept over at his house after the murder yeah oh wow that's wild i didn't read that yeah so the three things they had him on and this is what people try to write off in a quick tweet to say he's got to be guilty fuck you you know because it got political it was everyone showed their ass but he they had the murder weapon, the gun, wrapped in a red bandana, and the eyewitness had said, I saw a black man in a red bandana, shoot, I think it was the sister, shoot my brother. And so it was in his house, and so of course the red bandana was his. It had his DNA on it.

And as I said, I'm like, there's a few people in this country that own a red bandana. One of the many pieces of evidence is, don't you think if you just killed a guy and you were trying to make sure you got framed for it, if you went and fucking stayed over at his house that night, you don't think you could grab his red bandana and stick the gun in the goddamn drawer or wherever it was and then be like, oh my god, look, cops, it's all here. Come on. Yeah. It offends – cases like that offend my intelligence yeah and i understand the innocence project is trying to argue the dna match i i get why they're doing that frankly as far as like the match on that yeah i'm on the prosecution side because it does pretty much match but that might not be relevant yeah yeah no i agree you know so like this this case and and this is something where it's like all

right well at least we we got him off death's door so now we can focus on on trying to get to the truth here but like it's another example of like some of the same people who are out here taking offense to the idea that poor kyle riddenhouse was being put through a trial he should have never been on which may be given the video evidence i'll agree with that but his life was threatened and they're so upset by that and then this guy has a case who's gonna be killed there's no coming back and they're like murder weapon dna on the thing eyewitness testimony what more do you need fry him it's like dude what because people don't you know people don't have sympathy for people

that don't look like each other it's like yeah it's it's it's i hate to say that but in this situation it's hard not to that's just the reality of the situation it's just psychology thing we're all comfortable with people that look like us or people that we grew up in similar environments you know and it's it's one of those things statistics show it as well it's just that when i don't know if the guy was white or not the guy that got killed he was okay yes so all right i'm right on this so the da was also fucked up yeah it sounds about right but it's like oklahoma yeah exactly so it's like when you have a situation where you have a black man killing a white man he gets more time in jail than if a white man kills a black man and it's like it's so weird because it's like when you have a situation where you have a black man killing a white man, he gets more time in jail than if a white man kills a black man. And it's like it's so weird because it's like you're doing the same thing.

But because we don't look alike, someone that looks like me is going to get a larger sentence because you're scared that it could be someone that looks like you. And it's just really interesting because it's like how we value things how we value how do i say this how we value and how we and how we i guess i guess the weight of the seriousness of certain things all really depend on whether or not if we look like someone or not and i guess what i'm trying to say is that like if you're black and you do something it's like okay not for nothing people don't care about african-american crime because it's not in their neighborhood it's not in a situation where it's like okay these people look like us when we had the when we had the crack epidemic in the 60s 70s whatever it was people didn't really in the 80s 90s people didn't really care about that now opioid epidemic is this

whole big thing and it's like i'm not saying that it's not an issue but what i'm saying is that i find it very ironic that now opioids are this big thing that people have an issue with but when we were screaming about crack is killing the communities nobody had anything to say and here's the other problem too this is this has to be said yeah the government was i mean i'll say it's proven you it is some complete i'm talking about like the agencies there was complicity yeah in that and so they had an incentive to make sure it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't complicit it was it wasn't complicit it was they they did that yeah worth the 50 cent whatever he did they did that like for

real like and it's it's an unfortunate it's an unfortunate thing man like it's just it's it's really it's really really really really really really unfortunate but it's life unfortunate thing man like it's just it's it's really it's really really really really really really unfortunate but it's life man you you made it when you were going through the full explanation a few minutes ago you were talking about like the the country and being built on racism and stuff like that and i i love that we talk about this stuff all the time on this show because i like to bring everything into the open especially stuff where the bickering pisses me off because it's dividing us and it's insane and extremes are out there so like you know i i'm what and i said this on something else but just as like a broad statement i'm one of these guys that recognizes like yeah there's a lot of that was never

right period and like has to continue to be fixed, and we must talk about it. And we have to be able to understand another person's experience, especially someone who doesn't look like you. And that works in every direction. But yeah, if we're going to talk about justice system things and stuff like that, you're right. Statistically speaking, someone that looks like you versus someone that looks like me, I'm in a little bit of an advantage strictly by how I look, which, you know, that's, that's problem where I start to get more, not defensive, but like, let's be careful. What we do here is that, yes, I do agree that certain unknown attitudes absolutely can be passed down even unknowingly to some people who have the right intentions and don't realize that some things are hardwired that shouldn't be hardwired

in them from like biological evolutionary whatever but when we start going to and i'm just cherry picking the example you used like you know my great grandfather and there are some people like this by the way was the fucking whatever it is of the ku klux klan and shit like that and so therefore then i automatically have all this shit built in i think one of the problems we have is now we over generalize to where everyone is a part of this you know racist history and everything and i'm not discrediting or discounting the fact that like especially like look after slavery and you look from 1865 definitely through the 1960s and you look at all the different programs generationally that were put into place to put certain people behind the eight ball yeah that we still see the

effects of these days i don't argue that but what i'm saying is we need to also recognize that we now have a lot of people who at least are – who look like me, who are incredibly aware of that. And we also have a lot of people who quote-unquote look like me who emanate from countries that aren't even white and we call them white. You know, like when did I start – when did we start calling Greek people white? When did we start calling Jewish people people white when did we start calling jewish people what you know what i mean like it's it gets this crazy us versus you mentality and so what i try to do is bring that back in and say okay let's recognize the issues let's put all those on the table and let's not go too far and try to say everyone has this or everyone's biased like this the system is burned it all down no let's burn down the parts that actually can be rebuilt more beautifully.

Let's not burn them down. Let's tear them down with a nice demolition and create a great big building. And it'll take time, but let's do it that way. So I wanted to make sure I said that to kind of readdress that and see what you thought there. But how do you burn down bits and pieces? How do you burn down bits and pieces of a tree without it catching on fire fully like the reality i'm saying use a demolition of a building that was a better example okay i'm all right but i mean i guess what i'm trying to say is that like

you you have a point you have a point where there are times where we do over generalize a lot of different things but i think that one of those things is and that was what i was going to talk about later. I'm like some more fun topics is like, it's, it's a marketing thing. Like when you go around, when you go around the world,

the projection of what we look at and what we look like or how we act and how we are is very, very stereotypical of what people would think a lot of us are. And for example, if I go out, if I go to, if i go out if i go to if i go to a european country if i go if i even go to china because this is a real life example that happened to a friend of mine i'm not going to express like what he was doing but he was there in china a couple of his buddies he was doing something they literally told him he couldn't come in

and ideally really was just because he was black and me looking at this situation it's like when people see african-americans in a different country they think a lot of the things that they see from say american tv or they see a lot of the things that they see off of comic books or stereotypes that have been projected and why that becomes such an issue of why it isn't us versus me mentality is because now it goes back to the concept of this stuff has been projected in your mind bits and pieces bits and pieces bits time after time after time i don't disagree with you by the way i understand that yeah so it's like what happens with that is now even though even though say somebody in greece may not be the yo the white supremacist that ruined everything you're still influenced by the bias that was projected from whatever you saw

i don't know what i don't know from the fact that people at least don't say you come to america people don't categorize you the same for the wrong reasons like the bad people versus how they would categorize you coming to it okay so it's So it's like if you're Greek and you come to America, you look white. And it's not a bad way. Yeah, it's like you look white. So it's like we see you as a white person. Yeah, you came from Greece, but it's like, yeah, he's white. And it's like you automatically, once you jump into the system,

it's like you're white and you're being treated as such. If I come from Africa or come from nigeria i'm input into the system they don't give a fuck if i'm nigerian to an extent and then you treat me the same way that you treat the guy who has ancestors that were drawn here and it sucks because it's like a lot of times it's like you've talked to me miles and shan like from what you would see on old tv we're nothing like that and i specifically say old tv because what you start to realize is that breaking down all the stuff that has happened to people you know what i mean like people african americans what you start to understand is that when you actually understand fundamentally why certain things are happening

it it's it makes a lot of sense it's like when we look at, okay, why do all black people live in poor communities? It's like, well, you have to understand that in a lot of major cities, the larger the population, the more segregated it's going to get. That's just natural statistics. When you come to a situation where we talk about redlining, we talk about all the different things that have happened in the country, it's like we're built in a system to make us look poor like and it comes to a situation where now it's you you have you have the i'm not even go there but you just have a lot of things in media where it's like you're projecting a certain image of how people are and you know that america is the media capital the world. So when all that stuff goes across the world, not everybody's going to come to America.

Not everybody's going to come here. And everybody's just going to see, oh, shoot, there's this black guy on TV that I saw. He has his pants hanging low. He probably has a gun. So if I decide, even if I want to go to fucking Sweden or Spain, if I'm just wearing, if I'm wearing like linen pants they're still going to assume I have a gun they're still going to assume that I'm some type of criminal or

some type of person that's going to do harm and that's why it's like it's very important for us to understand that like you're 100% correct in a sense of like yo we need to destroy a building and rebuild it back up beautifully but for me the way that you have to look at it is that in order for you to it's like one of those situations where it's like you you have a building right here but you also have to understand that there's still plumbing that you probably still have to destroy in that building there's still there's still other stuff that you have to create you have to create additional tunnels to build that system so where you want that building to be the most beautiful building that you want i.e you want the most beautiful society in which we all have been able to assimilate towards each other and not have

any of these biases so it's like i get what you're saying but we also have to remember that it's like all these things are all linked to one another to the point where it's like even if you even if you don't want to even if you don't want to build take down the good parts some of that good stuff is going to have to come down and that's where it gets dangerous and and i we could go down a rabbit hole of like picking out what would come down i i don't think anyone knows that and i understand i i don't want people ever taking what you the end of that out of context i understand exactly what you mean and the intention behind that is is all good because the overall point you're making ties back to the evolution i won't even say evolutionary the programmed group think attitudes that get built in based on what

society pushes not just like in our face but passively in our ears just every day that gets repeated and because of especially the inner connectivity of the world there is that added to it and then even put on top of that the fact that evolutionarily as you pointed out a while ago yes we recognize i recognize when i look at a black person you look different than me i recognize when i look at a greek person there's maybe it's like lesser but like they look different than me right we as humans we do have a built-in thing that says that but i don't know if you ever just like sit back and just like hate laugh at some shit but it's just like the whole thing is this like when you actually just stop and get rid of all the noise and just think about what we're

talking about it is the stupidest fucking thing i've ever heard in my life if you have an animal we are as humans we are an animal i think i said that i had a good uh i had a good thing with that last time where i was like trying to get the point out and i remember i was laughing my ass off and i don't know how you come to straight face but anyway like we're this like animal kingdom object like creature yeah we are all the same yep we happen to emanate from different points with respect to the literal equator which just has to do with where the sun is this is how simple this is and yet for some reason since the beginning of time we've built in this thing where because the sun affects different people on the outside of their organs which affect their actual body and what they can do and how

they have fucking four limbs provided they're a fully limbed person we want to be very respectful here but they have all those things we have ignored that part of it and just decided like however the outside of each of our cookies is baked. That's going to be the basis on how we judge the social standing of someone else. That is dumb. Yeah, it's wild. To say the least. I could be wrong. We could look this up.

There's a book called The Color of Law that i have not been able to read yet and it basically expresses why race has became a construct um and ideally this is from janet yellen um that was the uh brown eye blue eyed experiment lady wait not no no that was not janet yellen no no no yo look at me bro yeah don't don't don't don't give me the janet yellen thing my bad my bad i'll put you in your place on that one no no no i don't want to talk about jenny yellen today she's annoying but point is is that like um the jane jane elliott was a blue-eyed a blue-eyed brown-eyed experiment and she basically brought up the book that expressed that like ideally race wasn't really a construct until people couldn't really decipher certain religions from each other so it was it was like a weird it was like a weird thing where it was like, okay, I can't tell if you're,

I'm just throwing this out there, like agnostic or you're Pentecostal, whatever. I'm just using this as an example. So we're going to distinguish you by color. And that's how apparently color started. I haven't read the book. I'm paraphrasing the very, very small that I've heard. But I think that it's very interesting to say because it's like something as something as minuscule as me just being able to be under the sun longer has now essentially ruined generations of other people it's just it's

just weird bro it's that this is stupid bro it is stupid it's stupid but we gotta talk about it because the the stupidity is built in. Yeah, and that's the craziest thing. And it's like what I find so funny about it is that like, like I've said this before, I probably have said this here, it's just like as crazy as people discriminate against African Americans and other minorities, it's just very ironic because a lot of these minorities essentially

have created what we've wanted in society which is entertainment when we look at things like music we look at things like acting when we looked at when we look at all these different things a lot of these a lot of the culture that we have now or a lot of the pop culture we have now has has been essentially on the foundation of what these minorities do. And I'm saying all minorities because it's like we have talented Spanish people, Black people, Asian people, all of that. But when we look into things like, say, music, when we say sports, all those things, that's built on the backs of African-Americans primarily.

And it's just very unfortunate that it's like we've only been, I guess, reduced to that. You know what I mean? Yes, I know exactly what you mean. It's unfortunate. And it's like, we're not really being told or shown our true value unless we're a Muhammad Ali or we're a Kanye West or we're a Jay-Z, where you're in these rooms with,

I don't want to say larger than life but these super big execs who can basically influence what you watch on tv and they say you know what i like him i like kanye i like how jay-z thinks or like this and it's like it's just really unfortunate that the only time we get the acknowledgement of how we build culture is only when we only have as much money as the people that can control the rest of our lives unfortunately that's deadly accurate idea sorry about the air no no it is and you bring up kanye who you and i were talking about this he just did and you know he does some stuff once in a while and you really get a thought process into him and i'm i'm a huge fan of him and i've talked about him on the show before he's like a to me he's crazy but he's also a genius and he's crazy and he's and he says what he thinks whether

you like it or not and there's like from a cultural standpoint he's just to me a critical person you have to critically analyze everything he says because sometimes he'll be like wait what the fuck did you just say but so you never take anyone for law with what they say but so often he just comes to these wild but holy shit conclusions where i'm like damn and so we had been talking about the one he just did sitting down with Nori who used to be called Noriega who's got I guess that's that's a podcast right I watched on YouTube drink champs they consider it a podcast yeah it was it was good I thought they did a good job and it's a

different model they have like a live crowd there while they're just sitting down shooting the shit but for people that haven't seen that he sat down with them for over three hours and god damn i mean i don't know what you thought but it was like there was there was this element of him just of course saying whatever the fuck he wants because he's kanye but also putting all these different opposing beliefs for different things, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right next to each other, where the audience who you have to assume each of those individual people,

by and large, is just someone who's one way or the other at this point. They're all sitting there like they're the same person, just like, wait, wow, okay, let me think about it. Let me process all this. And technically, technically, all the guy's doing is just thinking for himself a little bit and putting ideas out there for people to argue and yet i step back and go holy shit is that important these days yeah low bar it's it's it's yeah mike a little bit oh yeah it's it's really it's like connie's a very interesting person. I think that for me, I used to. How do I say this?

Because I should I'll just say he's a really interesting person. I'll say the interview was really interesting to me because from what I did watch, a lot of stuff that he was saying was making a lot of sense. It's like I think the concept of him just living in his bag and that's what he considers his home was really interesting because it's like we look at things as like yeah we have this five we have this five six bedroom house and this is where i live but it's like it's not necessarily where you live it's like i mean it sounds corny but to me it's like it's like home is where the heart is it's like you don't need you don't need the six bedroom house to say this is my home like you literally could be in an apartment or you could be in a hotel like this is my home because i have the stuff that makes me feel like me and i think that's the concept of just homes in general like home when you go home it's the place where you can be yourself that's what you need and that's

just what life is it's like we we've placed so much emphasis on material things to make us feel this way but it's like what about the stuff that just makes you feel like who you are like art makes me feel like who i am me looking at me looking at things that have to do with law me just looking at just just life just makes me feel like who i am i love taking i love taking pictures i love art i love writing i love doing these things those make me feel like moose you know what i'm saying and it's like kind of breaking that down it's like well i have my macbook i have my i have my external hard drive all this this stuff, this is what I need. And that's just a beautiful thing. And I think what was also beautiful about this is this is where I go back to the whole concept of interdependence where it's like, yo, I just stayed at my homie's crib in Chicago for a couple of days while I'm doing this.

And it's like, this is where you're not really paying attention. He has the big messages and stuff like that, but it's the little things with Kanye sometimes. Wait, what was that message? He was saying that, yo, I don't have have a house i didn't stay at a hotel i just stayed at my homie's crib in chicago for a couple of days i forgot what he said he was doing but he was oh yeah yeah and he's a billionaire yeah and he's a billionaire and it's like yo he has all the money in the world he could stay wherever he wants he could buy whatever house he wants but he's like yo i'm just gonna go stay with my homie right and it's like why that's so profound to me

it just it becomes like it goes back to this whole thing of like when you're not really thinking about this way it's like oh that's funny but it's like think about it we live in a situation now where everybody wants to be individuals everybody wants to be by themselves everybody's emotionally unavailable everybody wants to be secluded excuse me everybody wants to be this type of individualistic person but once again like i said earlier that's not how society works you don't get to win you don't win in society by just being by yourself like steve jobs couldn't be steve jobs about steve wozniak you know what i'm saying is it steve wozniak yeah you know what i'm saying and it's like we have these different we have these different profound things oh yeah i can do this

by myself i'm i'm an independent millionaire i'm just but kanye couldn't get where he was without hoover dame especially dame he couldn't get to where he is. He says that. And it's like we look at this situation. It's like all these people that even are on your wall right now couldn't get to where they were going to be without interdependence. And it's like, nah, let's not even say Kanye was a billionaire. If Kanye wasn't a billionaire, he had $0. And the fact that he could stay at his homie's crib shows that you still need people at certain points in your life. And I think that that's one of the biggest things that, I mean, from what I was seeing, because I honestly don't remember because I watched it like three weeks ago.

But like that was one of the biggest things that like I took. I'm like, yo, like this dude is a billionaire. He can buy whatever he wants. He could buy whatever house, whatever he wants, literally on the spot. And all he said was, yo, I'm just relying on my homies a little bit more than normal. And this is what I want to do. And that's it's cool. And I think that we could all take a little piece of that and just was, yo, I'm just relying on my homies a little bit more than normal, and this is what I want to do. And that's cool. And I think that we could all take a little piece of that and just say, listen, there are people that you're going to need in life.

You can't be strong, independent, and not need nobody. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And I think that's one of the most profound things that I saw on that, outside of him coming crazy at Big Sean and john legend um and everyone else was just yeah it's just interesting the the point you had made before that talking about the guys who get to the table they the fact of the matter is they're getting there because they have the money that they were able to get and there's a few of them who have been able to do it and they pull it off i said it's true because i think the evidence is crystal clear on that so i agree but with him i think that the fact he however it happened and it happened through him just basically being a guy

who defined culture across two critical things music and fashion right however he got there great he's there we'll look at that later but now that he is he's continuing not only to openly influence in those critical segments but he telegraphs tells you exactly how he's going to do it even if it's something where he's like i'm going to make people who hate this thing right now like this thing. Watch me go do it. to the fact that he is then also someone who will come out and give his constructs like the one you just pointed out and make people think about things differently and want to because he's the one saying it and he's kanye west and he has this platform he has this power he has this influence you now are opening up the possibility that more people unknowingly are going to unplug from the machine by listening to someone like that, even if they don't agree with everything he says, which is actually healthy. I certainly don't.

But like they'll hear that and then form their own ideas and now actually be the thing that breaks the matrix. So like something he said, like he's a conundrum in a lot of ways to me because usually I can't stand people who fucking say what they are or like brag about themselves and stuff. I think he does it for a lot of comedic effect and I laugh my ass off at it. Normally something that he said back in 2013, I think maybe for the first time then, but was starting to say on The Breakfast Club, normally something like this would have made me go click shut it off fuck that guy but it had the opposite effect and that was where he was going on and on for like 10 minutes and he's like i look at myself i'm steve jobs i am not i forget the musician he used but he used some sort of example he goes no disrespect but like i'm more like this and this is why and then he tied that point into through a whole bunch of things to the fact that, and it was funny, but you think about it, it was also real.

He's like, no one gives a fuck what Barack and Michelle are wearing, like a few people do on Twitter. But he goes, Kim and me go wear something. Everyone's rocking that shit the next week. And he's like, so what's more important? And some people might look at that and be like, well, fuck you. You're talking about fashion versus like politics that actually affects laws. No, he's talking about who has attention for ideas that other people are and they take ideology and they take us all and say, no, no, no. This is what you're going to do. You don't like you.

You don't like you. That's how it goes. And by the way, run along and play. We're going to take care of things. And now we have platforms where people who are totally outside that system but have thoughts that can affect it like a Kanye, like a jay-z something like that can use that platform talk about it and unplug everyone from that machine i talked about and and change things in the process of just changing fucking pop culture yeah so based off of that do you think that he accomplished that with donda no actually i'll say no right away. Okay. Because, and this is important.

Do you think Donda was good? Yes. Okay. I love Donda. Okay. But it's an album. It's one album. Mm-hmm. And I think when we start to say, like, let's compare it to anything, like a piece of art, right?

Because that's what it is. It's an art. I think when we start to say that one thing that this person, this great person created is the definition of who they are and every single thing they stand for in like an entertainment art form, which any piece of art has an element of entertainment to it. I think that's like, all right, slow down. You're taking shit too far. But I'm curious why you asked that, by the way. Because I didn't think Dondo was a good Kanye album.

And I don't think that that's Kanye's album. What do you mean you don't think it's his album? I don't think. So this is what I was trying to explain to miles and shan but i didn't think i i like expressed this the best way i don't think that i think that kanye in terms of music is losing what made him special how so when we look at all the music all the albums that he's made produce things of that nature what made kanye so what made kanye so special and so great was the innovation of what

he was trying to do right with the sound yes with the sound with the albums, raps, everything, right? Okay. And when we continue to look at that, that's what made me feel so great about Kanye, where it's like you're doing something different and you are being different. Miles calls me a Kanye stan because of just how I loved Kanye so much because of he dared to be different and he was so comfortable being different

and he ended up being comfortable so comfortable being different and he ended up being right about him being different right and so and so for me now looking at it it's like i look at donda i look at your jesus is king i look at your sunday service and everything i'm like bro you lost your touch like this is not innovative to me and the reason why not because this is literally up because this really sounds like a Chance the Rapper album. This sounds, if you want me to be honest, like really think about all the actual Christianity concepts, the gospel sounding songs on Donda. I didn't finish the album, but I'm saying for a fact if you were to put chance to rapper on any of those songs that would have been chance to rapper's album

and not for nothing i'll go a step further and even say that a lot of some of the elements that he he took a lot of elements of what he's doing now from chance to rapper's coloring book mixtape he just turned it into he just brought it and said i'm gonna do it to kanye he's i'm gonna make kanye's coloring book i don't know that he i'll give him this credit one place i'll argue and say i disagree is is the last part there especially and and i i like the album so we disagree there but i see what you're getting at here when it comes to the sound kanye's career has been built off of repeatedly creating a new era of what he cultivates the vibe to be right and the vibe comes from the sound before even the rap and

everything he puts on and who comes on songs and like that that's true looking starting at the first album back in 2004 going all the way through now and I think he's at what like 11 studio albums something like that they are all broken up into distinctive completely different emotions that you get from each one and maybe there were a few that overlapped but you see like general eras yeah and then like he got the black skinhead and it was like whoa like way out there right and so now donda was he went to the jesus is king album and went through the whole like 2018 where he suddenly became even more aware of his Christianity and all that and went for like a full gospel album, which is not my cup of tea, right? Like that actual album, I mean, it was brilliant, like the sounds and stuff, but that's not like – I'm not bumping Jesus is King. Like I'm bumping Life of Pablo.

It's not even close with donda he integrated to me he integrated some of the greatness of those sounds that he cultivated during this era this born again i don't want to say born again christian but where he was like really above and beyond about it cultivated some of the great musical vibes he took from there along with some of the themes where he's always talked about god and his music so he kept that and like one place that i don't really care like he bleeped out anywhere where people curse you know how i feel about that just fucking say it dude like i had that that i was i wasn't a fan of but whatever you know he took some of those

themes integrated it back into it and then integrated the cultural Kanye into it and to me like also I love the genius of the production quality of what he does because what people a lot of people still for some reason fail to give him credit for is that yes I think Kanye is a very good rapper and a great musician a great artist but like the thing that pushes him is the fact that he came up as a producer and he's incredible incredible it's not his and i thought the sound was great no the sound don't get me wrong the sound is great but i think that the issue the issue that i'm the issue that i saw with it now because i was really trying to think about it it was really like yo chant it's like okay i'll put it like this when we look at what kanye done, when we look at Yeezus,

we see how that influenced a lot of Travis Scott's music, a lot of the rage rap sound that we listen to today. We see how that kind of influenced Travis. I said Travis already. Travis and, yeah, rage rap. We see how Kid Cudi also influenced Travis Scott in terms of how he sounds on his album sometimes. And we-

ASAP Rocky was the other one he said. Yeah. And it's like, for me, what I saw was that with Chance, right, we saw how a lot of the college dropout kind of influenced how Chance the rapper is. Yes. But what you notice about all of these musicians that I'm saying is that what you've noticed is that all of these artists, the Chance,vis the um i guess you could put cuddy in there a little bit because you know they work together but it's like what you'll notice is that they made the sound and made it a lot better they took what they took the elements of what kanye influenced what the kanye

influences and turn that into a much bigger sound so when i say like when we talk about kid cuddy right when we talk about Kid Cudi, right? When we talk about Kid Cudi's last album, Kid Cudi's last album was really good. I agree. But it sounded very similar to a Travis Scott album. Not in the sense of, not in a sense of,

not in a sense of, yo, this is like a rage album. But when you actually break down a lot of the elements on how it is, Travis likes to take you on the same story that Kid Cudi likes to take people on. When you look at how they use their voice, when you look at how they kind of rap, they do the upbeats, the yodeling, things of that nature, all those elements in a lot of those songs were there,

even culturally a little bit in Kid Cudi's last album. It was there. I got to go listen to that again. It was a great album. Don't get me wrong. gotta go listen to that again it was a great album don't get me wrong it was a great album it was a great album but I guess what I'm trying to say is that when we look at Kanye and I look at Donda my biggest thing was that you had the college dropout influence to influence Chance Chance brought it in in um what's the song called I mean not the um the mixtape called an acid rap on the good ass intro and outro and then he brought it back again for

coloring book right and so for me it was like we had coloring book and coloring book was such a in my opinion the groundbreaking mixtape because of how it mixed all that stuff together but now you kind of saw kanye say okay we had this i'm putting him on ultralight beam it worked everybody loved it and then you kind of just took everything and then you were just like all right cool let me build off this ultra light beam chance to rapper um kirk franklin similar formula that i had and i'm going to expand it into this and then i add the the producer the produce not the actual making music but the producer aspect of it and so why and so why that becomes an issue to me is like like kanye has said kanye sees himself as steve jobs and one of the things that you'll notice and this is and this was something that i was also trying to explain to mom mills and shan is that

that the out like that that's been my biggest issue with kanye it's it's when you look at what apple has problems with kanye has issues with kanye had a debt issue apple had a debt issue that's why they split their stocks i mean nobody really knows that but yeah they had a debt issue can you elaborate there i mean they split um so connie had a debt problem he owed 66 million dollars remember yeah this is what like 2016 a couple years ago yeah and then apple also had a debt problem. This was, I think, one or two, three years ago. And they split their stock so people could buy more.

Apple had a debt problem? Yeah, they have a debt problem. But they have more cash than 77 countries combined. They could still have a debt problem. I gotta look at that. Yeah, I could be wrong on that. Once again, that's just my headcanon. All right, yeah, we'll fact check that later.

Yeah, we'll fact check that later but my point is is that kanye kanye has very similar tendencies with apple if what i'm saying makes sense the marketing when you do the marketing yes both kanye and apple they not their their product isn't really built on the actual product it's built on the anticipation of getting the product. So when Donda came out, what we saw was, yo, you saw the presidency thing. Obviously, I'm not taking his mother's, but you saw the Drake thing. You saw everything coming out, and you kind of saw, yo, the listening parties. Kanye was like, even before the listening parties came in, we had rumors that, yo, Kanye's dropping down to this year. Then he pushed it back.

You know what I'm saying? He pushed it back. Oh, he's a marketing genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get that straight. That's what I'm saying. He knows what he's doing. Just like Apple knows exactly what the fuck they're doing.

So when you saw the very similar elements, now what you see is that Apple drops the iPhone. They say, okay, we're unlocking the keyboard on the iPhone so you can now use third-party apps to have different types of keyboards we're now allowing certain people to now use FaceTime you're opening up certain things but it's like a lot of these things that you guys have been like Apple creates is groundbreaking a lot of these other phone companies like Android have been doing for a while like oh you can now change the widgets on your phone you can now customize your phone like android's been doing that for years and so now why i was saying the whole chance to rapper issue is that with kanye is that when you look at kanye

i'm not saying kanye i'm not saying kanye isn't great in what he does i'm not saying the production wasn't good but now when you look at it the same stuff that chance the rapper was doing on coloring book he now saw that and was like okay cool i'm gonna bring him an ultra light beam and now i'm gonna make this album so now for me i'm looking at it like yo like chance the rapper did this years ago and it was like the best thing since sliced bread you know what i'm saying you remade how great is our god you made you remade all these different songs like chance has been doing that like that's been his that's that's been his bag and now kanye came in with the sunday service into the same thing and then now you see donna come out and so now for me why that was an issue with me was because kanye

for me i've always been so happy for like for him and i resonate with him so much because he was different and for me now where he dropped this album i kind of felt like he dropped the ball a lot because he was trying to do a lot of things that everybody is doing and culturally what ended up hat what ended up happening is that i think that he missed the ball on some things because he's very innovative and i think the innovation part on some of those tracks especially with phoebe o falafel was was not there well, there's a lot to pick off there. There's no way I'm going to get to everything I'm thinking about that. But, okay.

First thing on that final kind of point you were making right there where you're going through him ripping off music, here's where that part doesn't quite sit right with me. Okay. off music here's where that part doesn't quite sit right with me okay you also said correctly that guys like chance and you can relate it like in some ways travis cuddy whatever they took elements of inspiration from kanye's earlier album before they were up and then created their sound out of it and now what you're saying is that you feel like he just copied the sound that they took to iterate on top of his own shit that other people happen to also iterate on top of but he's the author so like and not that they did this i'm

not calling them this but i'm just using this as an example you could call cuddy and and travis and those guys the plagiarizers and i feel like now we're given the plagiarizers credit for being the visionary when they copied the visionary to do their thing. And now the visionary is doing something that's close to the quote unquote plagiarizers. But now we're making it the other way around, like the visionary is the plagiarizer. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. But I think what you have to understand is that as like it's.

All right, cool. I get the shit on Fivio like this um so so I call him five yo I call him Fivio falafel falafel foreigner whatever you want to call him but I don't like the name yes a nice name I just he's just that he's a garbage drill rapper to me but um so i understand where you're coming from but how i look at it is just because you're the visionary doesn't necessarily mean that if somebody now takes elements of what you did and turn it into their own doesn't necessarily mean that they're plagiarizing and as Kanye being the visionary and Kanye being the innovator what I would have expected would be for him to add more elements of things that are missing I think that now that what what me looking back on it one song I do appreciate from Jesus is King is

follow God because I didn't like I didn't like the album at first but i understood what it was i didn't understand it now i mean but now that i understand like why i didn't like the whole him going the full gospel route makes sense to me like now it's like i like follow god now looking at it because it's like it was innovative you literally were being kanye and you applied it in a way in which you would consider a gospel and that that felt kanye-ish if what i'm what i'm saying makes sense and so now because he had that i'm just i'm using this for example like when you use the follow god track i'm not saying everything has to be like this but for you to have that if you expanded on it in a way like that instead of just saying okay chance the rapper did this i'm taking all of this

and then i'm just gonna bring it and be kanye and just add nice clothes it becomes a different way it becomes it becomes it becomes a little bit different and what i guess i'm saying is that in terms of being a visionary you seeing chance and what he did you kind of you have to see what chance was missing you know what i mean i'm not saying that maybe in my maybe maybe i could give him credit in a sense if he did add a little bit more of the culture aspect to what chance was kind of missing because it was very because the thing is with chance is that chance is very chance seemed like the golden boy you know what i mean he was a very like he couldn't do any wrong until you know he started talking and doing politics all that stuff but that's besides point he couldn't do any wrong but then now what ended

up happening with connie which i'll say i'll give donna credit for now is that he added a lot of that cultural element you know what i mean even though i hate phoebe and i honestly and i still stand on this that phoebe should not have been on that drill verse. It was still good that he still included that. I just personally think that in terms of him being innovative, once again, this is my bias. When Miles and Shannon listen to this, they're going to laugh. I think that they should have put a UK drill artist on there. i because uk drill is like regardless of regardless of it starting in chicago regardless as if vivio foreign is the top top drill rapper now can you also tell people what drill is because it is a movement it's wild like how it started in chicago but then it kind of died and the person

bringing it back now is little dirk but it's not it has moved as you as you're pointing out it's moved on to other cultural epicenters i guess you could say i guess the best way to describe because i don't so my this is my problem with it before i before i say this if i give my own personal definition of it i would potentially be doing that a disservice because i'm not from chicago nor am i a driller so like my thing is that when you look at drill it really just ultimately depends on the person like if you if you want to talk about chicago if you want to talk about chicago this is my opinion this is not me saying i'm from chicago i know everything but when we talk about the drill music drill music is

very heavy based it's very very violent it's very um i'm just putting i have it behind us dark violent nihilistic content yeah i was going to say that it's very dark it's very violent it's very very violent it's very um i'm just putting i have it behind us dark violent nihilistic content yeah i was going to say that it's very dark it's very violent it's very very to the point of what you're doing it's a very trap influence that yeah what i'll say is a very it's very influenced on a lot of violence and your ops and things of that nature to be funny and so when you look at the drill when you look at the drill move obviously started with you have chief keith you had frito you had um free at frito santana you had um g herbo you had little bibby you had all these other rappers and it did kind of die down because the shot the chicago movement i wouldn't say it got it got weird but

that's one that people like mick jenkinsa and Chance the Rapper, could I say Chance? Mick Jenkins, Chance the Rapper all came out, and you kind of saw Chicago kind of move away from that because those three were not really necessarily drill rappers, but they were more so like we're rapping about what Chicago is. Mind you, we have some of those content, but it's in a different way. Chance was the artsy guy yes vic is the vic is the very grungy type of guy mick jenkins is the i would i don't want to say soul but he was kind of the soul out of the three of those guys in the sense of him being the guy that kind of took elements of okay i'm talking about god i'm talking about this like now i'm not saying he's like the the forefather but he was the guy that kind of had that concept like we're talking about jesus christ we're talking about

what the healing component is we're talking about all these different things i mean technically kanye did talk about that i mean yeah i'm talking about i'm talking about yeah i'm talking about like in this new movement like the drill chicago like that particular era so it was like that kind of happened it kind of the drill movement i want to say died out but it just became a very very regular thing so what it became it basically became mcdonald's in a sense like drew was authentic you know yeah chief keith i don't like then they saw that worked oh musician um music labels are just throwing their money at all the little drill art not little but the drill artist they give them money deals all this stuff and it kind of died out went away for a while because obviously like mick um vick Vic, and Chance, that's actually, that rhymes.

But, yeah, they all kind of came out. And it became about them and how Chicago's turning into this thing where it's like you have the drill rappers and you have these three who are, like, they look like, not in a sense, but in that Chicago essence, they look like the Kendrick, J. Cole, and Drake. You know what I mean? And so that kind of happened. It died out. they look like the kendrick j cole and the kendrick j cole and drake you know what i mean and so that kind of happened it died out came back and obviously like the new york scene kind of the new york scene was picking up a little bit with that but then at the same time the uk also had their drill movement and uk has very very similar drill songs because a lot of their stuff is just as violent i want to i want to stay with this because we're relating it to donda where you're saying phoebe o was on there and you would rather seem like the uk movement but i want to i

want to make sure i touch part of the sidebar on drill because we've never brought up drill on this podcast but it's such an interesting cultural phenomenon to me when you look at it you said something in there where you were saying that the record, you mentioned like the record labels. They did, but then they tried to switch it up, right? So this is really important because we're seeing the pushback on this phenomenon now live through Lil Durk as like a forefront of it. Because Lil Durk was a Chicago drill rapper and he is now clearly a Chicago drill rapper again The reason for that is because he blew up it not enormously, but he was big in like 2011 2012 2013

Gets a big label deal. I forget which one 300. I think it was no he wasn't 300 Come on, okay, look it up. Of course. It course it'd be 300 they suck but yeah 300 entertainment who are they partnered with now uh they got bought out by sony okay so oh yeah i can't even look at somebody but yeah whenever you want to get the chance yeah i'll look that up in a minute but either way it's some you know sausage factory label yeah who then tried to mainstream him they tried to say no no again that drill was cute but we're gonna we're gonna make you more we're gonna make you more appetizing for the public which is what these stupid marketers do but that's the worst idea so they did that they killed him he was dead he was literally

dead in the water so much so that they didn't even re-sign him because they're like wow you're done he goes independent and says fuck it we're going back to what worked took a while but he but he kept creating, creating, creating, and he's the biggest true rapper in the game right now. I think that his new label got bought out by Sony, and that's why it's more so like on that label, he's like the priority. But he also has his own, like it's the OTF thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like when you're in you're in when you're in music labels there's always a priority and it's like even when you have like the smaller boutique labels or whatever they are there's going to be the priority like when you look at quality control like the priority now is

lil baby it's cardi b um who else is on there i mean the migos is on it but they're not the biggest priority you know what i mean and so when the city girls yes city girls you have cardi b you have little baby and it used to be little yachty but he writes all the city girl songs now so it's like for them it becomes a situation where it's like okay dirk is our priority because dirk is the biggest start he can make us the biggest return on investment so now you see that that's why you see little dirk all over the place doing features he did the song with drake he did with drake twice he did a lot of these different things because he's the priority and it's it's kind of like a favor thing in a sense for a lot of other labels so um yeah dirk did blow up a lot um throughout the last definitely it was def jam by the way oh wow

i'm wrong here was def jam wow no all good it doesn't the point is still yeah it's fine so like yeah it's like he he he ended up coming out from he ended up coming up um now and he is one of the biggest chicago drill rappers now king von was on his way um king von was there r.i.p to king von and yeah it's it became a situation now where it's like do you know what the story there was by the way with the conspiracy theorists about the dirk and von thing no i no and i don't it seemed ridiculous i don't like talking about all those conspiracy and death things because i like it's it's only it's kind of an i'm gonna say annoying but it's just it's it's touchy to me only because of the fact like those are black boys black men expressing a lot of pain through a lot of the stuff that they're doing. And it's like, they're expressing that through music.

And it's like, it's really unfortunate that, you know, like, you know, you still, you're still in Chicago and, or you're not even just in Chicago or any of those places, you're still dealing with those kinds of things because it's like, yo, it's just you trying to get out and trying to make a better name for yourself, but you just end up being put back in these situations which forces you to do things that you really don't want to do. So it's like, I don't like really speaking on those things too much to be honest because it's like it goes back to my whole thing of like i feel like music industry whores a lot of these young artists for a lot of different they always have and and while they're

allowed to still continue to exist in that way they always will and and that and that was my biggest issue and going back to like the whole um drill thing like my whole biggest thing with the my whole biggest thing in general is and i've been trying to express this to miles and shan i keep bringing them up because i always bring this up all the time because i mean granted like i said it's my personal bias but it's also fact right we in america have i think we are reaching a bubble of the music industry um in terms of the content of what we're doing and there needs to be innovation just in my opinion what do you mean a bubble um kind of like you're getting to the point where we're literally making everything

that we need to make in terms especially in hip-hop because it's like really think about it i don't follow expand yeah all the songs on the radio is mostly rap and we all talk about very similar things we all talk about very similar perspectives everybody has very very similar perspectives on just about everything that's why i wanted we have the drill concept with baby well nice that baby came because you got it on there but when you have the drill when you have the when you have fevo falafel talking about the same stuff that sounds similar to what a lot of Chicago drill rappers are talking about. I'm not saying that they're the same because obviously these are all very. How do I say this?

They're all very unique stories, but it all still sounds very much the same. Everybody grabs on the same exact BPM. Everybody has very similar flows. Right. everybody has very similar flows right and when you go to the uk these dudes rap on higher bpms or the same bpms and they flow different obviously because they have different accents and so for me why i find that so interesting not even just on drill music but just in music in general is that they give you a fresh perspective of what's going on and for me because i'll say like hip-hop for me i'll say it's always telling a story about what we are where we're at and our perspectives as african-americans we have a whole nother

country where a majority of where a majority of the african-americans there are experiencing similar things in america but we're just choosing to say we don't want to listen to them because they sound like they talk about crimpits and tea and so for me it's like we look at that and not for nothing these dudes spit and it's not even on like oh yeah like they're they're whatever like no they have drill stories like they they have gangs that are just as big as gangs gangs in america and it's like we look at these stories and it's like, yo, these situations are going on. And it's just like, bro,

this goes on in a different country and these people rap about these different things. It's like, yo, it's very, very vulnerable for them as well. And so for me, I would have found it interesting for Kanye to now bring that perspective into his album. You know what I mean?

Just because of the fact that you're an innovator. We already know what Fivio talks about. We already know what a lot of chicago and i'm not saying they're bad like besides fevo but at the same time you have rappers who have changed the drill game like heady one who rapped with drake on his album you have rappers like millions you have all these drill rappers that have these bars that not for nothing if you were to put them against afevo or you were to put them against some of these new york drill rappers they're running circles around them like and i'm not even saying that and i'm saying that very very very generously you know and so i just think that in general just with the don the thing he could have been more innovative with that but in the bigger perspective i think that we need to pay

more attention to the uk because they have a lot of great r&b music they have a lot of great rappers and i and yeah i just and not for nothing shameless plug like san san dave has album of the year next to tyler the creator and like it he just rapped rapped was no gimmicks nothing he came out two weeks my album's dropping here here's my single have fun with it and they literally rap circles probably better than the top 10 15 rappers you would consider in an american rap game right now well yeah because also half of the half the game 90 of the game is the marketing too and everything that goes around and so if you're not you know those guys aren't marketing anywhere near like what dra and Kanye did, for example, with Dunn and CLB. But what's funny is we have the American culture is king bias here that we've had for a long time.

It doesn't mean that we don't let things come in and recognize talent, but the reason I'm getting at this is because name a random country. It doesn't even matter what one. In Europe or like Asia or something. France. Okay, France. Bigger one, but still a good example. France fucks with 50 Cent when it came up. They fuck with Kanye they fuck with kanye now they like if it's good they're french they're doing what they're doing they these guys might be talking about some shit

in america and in english that they don't even understand but like it's good right and they enjoy it and then the people in france who speak english and can understand they appreciate like a different perspective meaning they let things come in not that we don't do that here we do and like music started the big music music didn't start the big counter-cultural music movement began with like the you could say all this certainly but then the thing that put it over the top was the beatles and rolling stones who weren't fucking from here yeah but over time we've developed this thing where it's like no no we're good with what we got and then like if something's amazing we'll let it in but like in doses yeah

that's a good point because i'll say that even with i'll say that even with drake i'll bring that to hip-hop where it's like a lot of people i mean i personally am never doing this but like a lot of people will not accept drake as top 10 rapper. And I 100% agree. I would not put him in top 10. But it's like Drake is so good that it's like you can't deny him in his talent where he has to be somewhere. He's not top 25. He could be top 15. And it's like you have to think about it because Drake's from Canada.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's tolerable. It's tolerable. You know what I mean? And that's the biggest thing that you look at. And since we're on that topic, what do you think of clb i liked it so and and like now obviously like kanye and drake have played nice i think that was all an act but you know they're marketers they know what they're doing but like when people to go off besides some

of the opinions you put out about donna maybe we'll wrap back around to that but like when people go off these albums and these camps started right away where it was like your team dond or your team clb like fuck this fuck that one of the things i said immediately was stop it i'm the kind of guy and i'll admit kobe's death was something that really influenced me in thinking this way but like when you have greatness shut the fuck up with the bullshit and just appreciate yeah you know what i mean kanye and drake i respect and like both of them i would say the style of music and i like drake's music a lot i bump it a lot but like the style over the course of his career yeah i'd probably prefer kanye a little bit but that

doesn't mean i'm like oh kanye a little bit but that doesn't mean i'm like oh kanye is better or whatever i also to raise the point you just made and this is out of respect by the way i i don't i'll start with drake i i don't put drake in a rap category i don't put him in an r&b category either he's in a a Drake category. He does, like, Drake does shit. I could sit here and break it down bar by bar, word by word, style by style. I don't need to do that and bore some people. I almost spilled the coffee right there. Drake does this Drake thing, and you're like, oh, that's, it comes on before you even hear his voice, you know it's a Drake song. I would also speak very similarly about Kanye. And Kanye is, I guess, more of a quote-unquote traditional rapper a lot of the time.

Now it's starting to shift a little bit. But still, traditional rapper doing songs in 2008 or 2010 like runaway he's his own thing you know like like i'm a tupac guy right love him know every single thing about him it's kind of a sickness i don't i don't compare drake or kanye with tupac or the other way around it's respect man like it's not you know what i mean like it's we're in this weird spot in music in that way where, in a good way, I think, for the better, you can't put some of these guys in these boxes because that's not what they are. Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is, like, we always say it all the time. Like, when it comes to, like, hip-hop and rapping, it's competition. like i think one of the i think for me one of the best kanye stories i've heard was the tyler the smucker story where he where tyler where tyler had sent his his verse to um kanye and lil wayne um lil wayne gave his verse back um after kanye and then kanye had listened to the whole song

kanye came back and rewrote his whole verse he came back and rewrote the whole thing because he was like nah i'm not gonna let you beat me you know what i mean and so he came back and then now when you hear the song it's like damn that's that's kanye you know what i mean and so it's like when we look at when we look at these things it's it's you're 100 right when we look at just traditional rapping it that i think that's what it is it's like there's just this competition thing that we want to always be like you know what drake got it right now it's's the same thing with like, yo, Jay-Z got it right now. And I think like going back to your Drake point, it's like kind of like how I compare like Kanye to Apple. It's like Drake is really like, it's kind of very similar to Amazon.

He's very, very similar to Amazon. It's in a point where it's like he's so good at every single facet, not at rap, but at music. But it's like when you go to drake you remember that drake was originally a rapper amazon originally started selling books but they just started doing everything they started branching out experimenting a little bit and then they figured out it works and then they figured out the formula and that's really the thing that you that you figure out it's like drake one of the things and i didn't i do come up with that yes i did that's fucking genius i've never heard someone put it that is like wow i'm sorry

i gotta give props to that that was beautiful appreciate it man appreciate it yeah okay keep going it's like when you come when you when you sit down and you look at when you sit down and look at drake right um what was i saying he was like amazon he started as a rapper and branched yeah so what you what okay that's what i was gonna say i liked clb but i didn't like it because what what i liked about it was moose answer it is it is i liked it because you know i what i like about drake is that he is very catchy but the problem was that i heard all of the music before. That is the problem. And for Drake, Drake is all about the numbers, kind of similarly how Amazon is, right? And so for me, when you look at it,

it's like Drake got really, really good at innovating and still being himself. When you see him go on a song with WizK, when you see him go on a song with J Balvin, when you see him go on a song with Heady1 in the UK, it's like he's still Drake. And he never really changed who he was it still felt very drake-ish but where my problem was that when it came to clb my problem with clb

was that there wasn't any of that innovation or that experiment that still worked like everything sounded the same like no friends in industry sounded like back to back champagne poetry sounded very similar um poppy's home all the a lot of the stuff that he has has the very similar sound but the number one thing is like i said he was about the numbers at this point like he's he's at the point now like kind of like how amazon is is that he's maintaining where he's at okay okay okay all right if what i'm saying makes sense now now that closer landed it okay so i think i took it differently than you and how i felt about it but i actually share the opinion you did you just put it right to me if i were to describe clb i would say that it was a celebration

album yeah it was a we're a year and a half into this pandemic obviously the world's all fucked up but like you know we're at least going out and doing some things again and whatever and i'm drake i'm still here doing my thing like i do every year dropping an album let's do a good old-fashioned drake vibe to close out labor day weekend in the summer and release this thing with some music going into the fall and let's Just have a good time like when I look at CLB. I enjoy the album. I think it's a great album Drake's a machine He's done. I think it's like 13 14 albums, whatever it is at this point and he's been around He came around four or five years after Kanye. He's the only only rapper. He's the only artist right now that has two hours

I think it might be oh, I don't know if it's the Billboard 200 whatever Billboard album Yes, but he's the only rapper that has two albums i think it might be on i don't know if it's the billboard 200 whatever billboard album it is but he's the only rapper that has two albums on i think he also simultaneously he also has like the most streams or something on spotify like he's insane so he he's brilliant all this stuff but like that said yeah i didn't think clb was a top three album drake's ever done just like by the way and i love donda too but i don't think donna's the time i mean i know you don't think that but i don't think it's top three that kanye's ever done but to me like that didn't change that i like both of them now if drake comes out and the next album is kind of once again the same kind of celebratory sticking with the known comfortable vibes that he's now morphed to say over the last like five years especially with the style all right i might be like all right now

we're getting repetitive same thing with kanye on the other end i don't think i don't think drake is going to be repetitive on whatever project he brings out next because i like it's when you really sit down and listen to all the tracks like you have heard like you have heard all those drake tracks before like and that's part of the reason why i was like it was a good album because it was like he gave us what we want it was like this goes back to my whole thing of like the anticipation of the album when we had when when drake was talking about yo this is my sixth album album number six you know it's like drake has such a relation to the number six like he's did he did scorpion and that did numbers so now when we're looking at it we're looking at this

anticipation like yo like this is his sixth album like this might be drake's best work you know what i'm saying and that anticipation where he brought in the the the commercial the trailer for his album you started to see like yo like this this album was really about to be fire you know what i'm saying and that anticipation where he brought in the the the commercial the trailer for his album you started to see like yo like this this album was really about to be fire you know what i mean and it goes back to what i was saying about the kanye the kanye issue was not the kanye issue with me as well as like the anticipation was there so much when we were like yo like we're anticipating it and then you had the kanye and drake dropping on the same day similar day type of situation and we were so like the anticipation got built up so much to the point that when both those project dropped, it was kind of like, OK. A letdown for you.

Not a letdown. I was kind of just whelmed. You were what? Whelmed. What the fuck does that mean? You know how you're underwhelmed, overwhelmed, whelmed. Did you invent that no i got it from young justice okay i would have given you credit you could have lied no you never okay but

you were whelmed yeah i was just what it was like i expected more from both of them and it's that like when you build and that's what happens to and that's what i think in in a lot of like consumerism culture today that's the biggest problem it's like we do this stuff to build the anticipation just to get the sales but we don't really focus a lot of time on the longevity drake and kanye are gonna have that longevity just because of the fact of their brands you know what i mean and i don't disagree with you i know what you mean but it's like when you have smaller artists trying to imitate that anticipation what happens is that you now bring it into microwave rap where it's like everybody just raps the same thing and then now a couple months later a year later you're not really listening to the project like it's like who's like i mean obviously he's a little

bit younger but a lot of older people probably are not listening to trippy red a lot of older people are probably a lot of older people are probably not listening to xxx and tassione like a lot of these older people when they want to listen to music they want they want to listen to music that's going to last for them you know what i mean it's like that's why people like kendrick are so important where it's like his anticipation is not because of the fact that you're building it like the anticipation is coming because you know that he's coming to deliver a ridiculous project you know what i mean and every single time he's delivered so the anticipation there has never been because yo i'm doing a gimmick or it's i do this or i do that or i'm trying to run for president or i'm i'm always marketing

myself to always be around you know what i mean and so it's like for anticipation for me that's where i that's what that's the anticipation i expect for drake and kan and so it's like for anticipation for me that's where i that's what that's the anticipation i expect for drake and kanye where it's like his first six albums for kanye the anticipation was just because your albums were just that fucking great not because i'm running for president or taylor swift issue or whatever you were just so good it was like yo i want more earned attention versus but okay okay you can't argue that i don't care who you are that point the evidence is there i mean just look at this summer that we already mentioned is one exhibit a example these guys controlled the narrative for a span

of i'd say two months to the, sorry, not to cut you off, to the point where people are building, like people are not dropping albums specifically within a month because they don't know if Drake or Kanye is dropping. And they don't want to, yeah, exactly. So they had a stranglehold on it. Now, Drake's into a lot of things around culture and has businesses around that

and is very interested in influencing things. And correct me if you disagree here but he's not as into the meta you know like let's talk about civilization and change through culture that kanye's into he's more like great we're chilling let's have a good time let's have you know good food good wine make some good music good fashion right so either way though they are both into some sort of setting at least pop cultural standards even if it's for different end yeah goals that's what they both do yeah and so the marketing around what they put out isn't just like yeah i want I want to do the most album sales and the most streams here, how we measure that. It's also how do we draw the most attention to either our message or our vibe,

depending on which of the two you are. When these other people, including great artists, go the opposite route, and they're quieter people they're not into that they're into just making great art and we appreciate it for it like like the real fans appreciate that and they may even have huge bases when they do that though and there's a lot of different examples we could give they don't have the same ripple effect on society because they have not generated that attention even let's use kendrick even kendrick now when he drops this project finally that's been anticipated for what like three years four years

three four years since the last album yes he's kendrick lamar it's gonna go everywhere people are gonna love the fuck out of it and it's gonna be a big deal it won't get to the same level though as like a drake or kanye not because in his own lane, in his own style, Kendrick doesn't have the same ability or hasn't been able to capture crazy attention like they have in the past. It's more just because Kendrick is more content and happy to work on behind the scenes and not worry about the whole like promotion to the drop. You know what I mean? And it's like for him and for him, it goes back to my point about the whole like promotion to the drop you know what i mean and it's like for him and and for him it goes back to my point about the earned attention it's like when he drops his music you're listening listening to that stuff like you're like it's one of those types of it's the

albums that you sit down and seriously listen to and dissect so that's why people go back and listen to it even though people may not understand damn it's like damn is just just from a music perspective alone people are going to go back and listen to that even till today you know what i mean even when he probably drops his next project they're still probably going to listen to this such a great project but like when you look at drake and we look at um yay when they do make the music that they do well now it comes to a point where it's like it's good enough to last x amount of years or it's good enough to last until i can i can make something else and and create an anticipation for something new meaning the music dies and no one ever listens to it again like not never not never listen to it

again but more recently what i think happens is that i think that with drake and yay it's more so like yo this will last them about a year. This will last them about two years. This will last them about this. When you look at Kendrick, Kendrick has not dropped the track in four years. He dropped two verses, and Kendrick Noir is now relevant in the game again. And he still has family ties. Range Brothers.

And his other hidden track on V but that's the last one but my point is is that like kendrick dropped three verses and he and literally it became a situation where damn everybody's tweeting oh damn y'all y'all might have fucked up because kendrick might drop this year it's it's like it became like damn it's still something yes it became a damn know what i mean and it's like yo this is this will hold you over until i'm ready you know what i mean and it's like for him it's more so that i don't even know when i'm ready so i need to put everything into this so that's how it's when it's ready it's ready and when i'm ready for my next one it's not going to be a formula when i'm ready i'm ready kanye and drake kind of have a formula in which in which how they do things so that sounds like this will last two

years because the numbers show that uh the track that sounds like back to back lasted six seven months or tracks with little dirk last me about a year or my time stamp records last about three four five six weeks i'm just throwing numbers out. By the way, Lil Durk's verse on Donna was genius. Yeah, it was. It was really good. Low fucking key. We'll get to that.

It was really good. And that's just what it is. I think that that's the thing that they're looking at a little bit more, where it's like Kanye and Drake are looking at those numbers, so that's how they're like, yeah, this will last them like two years. Or this will last me a while. Versus we look at Kendrick and it's like, well, I'm throwing my all into this and it's going to last until I want to drop another project or I'm ready to make another project that makes sense. You know what I mean?

Not about money, all that stuff. It's just I dropped that. And that's part of the reason why sometimes he may not even do the numbers because it's like it's not formula. It's not it's not a formula. You know, Drake has that formula that once he gets it,'s there you know and drake is the most and i don't say this is a shot at all because it's it's like almost mathematical genius when you look at what he's done and how he's pulled it off and how it's a hit like he he is a formulaic rapper yes he knows what goes into making a hit and he happens to make banger fucking music

when he does it so there are some people who give him a shit for that but it's just typical people just doing the popular thing of not liking the most popular thing it like that's all it is yeah and it's like you can call it what you want just like we had the conversation and i'm saying like i don't i don't even call him a rapper i I call it, he's Drake, right? You can call it whatever you want. I don't care. But like, it's good. Like, even if it's not your vibe, like it's fucking good. Like there are songs he makes that are like not my vibe, right?

Where I'm like, all right, I'm probably not going to listen to that again. Even someone like CLB. I'm like, okay, not really. Same with Donda too. There's certainly, there's some skips on there. I'm like, okay, I don't need that shit. But like, that's anything. You know, even if I wasn't into that type of music, I'm into recognizing the talent behind it.

I even, now I'm into like literally every kind of music. But I even have made a concerted effort over the last year or so to do that with country. I fucking hate country. No, I feel you. It's my one music that I've just always been like, all right, a fucking bourbon, a beer and a bar and like, I get it. Exactly. Right, whatever. But it is more than that.

And there are some people who are just fucking geniuses there's um there's this one kind of like large guy fat dude um but but i don't remember his name but incredibly talented he shows up on tiktok sometimes he's like really famous like one of the big maybe thomas red or no i don't know but people know who i'm talking about and like he'll put out content of him writing new songs on there and playing it on the guitar like in the tour bus and it's fucking genius and it's like holy shit and so like i'll find a way to appreciate that and i wish people were like that with all kinds of music i wish people could be like yo i'm not into maybe like rap or something but damn yeah that, that's some – that's talent right there.

I guess my shameless plug because I'm a Kendrick stan. I think that when Kendrick started winning his Pulitzer Prizes, when he started getting a lot of the – I don't want to say they're weird awards, but the actual literature awards where it's like people are really listening to his stuff outside of the culture, I think that's where people start to understand and appreciate things because it's like once i saw kendrick win a poltergeist prize for his album i was like yeah no you guys you guys are not you guys get it now you know what i mean yeah it's bigger than it's bigger than just saying like yo like um i got loyalty royalty inside my dna it's

like you're actually studying what he's trying to say and it's like for him and that's part of the reason why for me it's like i've always found Kendrick and his evolution so beautiful because it's like you really watch this guy who still was an amazing rapper who can rap rigor mortis, you know, from Section 80. And now you see how he fit all those words into, I think, a three minute track. And now you see him in damn where it's like the words that he's saying mean so much more but he's saying a lot less if what i'm saying makes sense like when you look at a song called lust it's like yo like even the verse it's like it's very very like um what's the word what it's a it's a it's a simile whatever the word is called no the parable no not parable i don't know um illusion whatever i'll say he basically it's a reference of like yo like the concept oh let me put the head in

and say yo what's your what's your i think he said like what's your pleasure is it pride whatever it is like he's talking about like alliteration no it's not alliteration because that's like the isn't that the one with the p yo i forget my sixth grade my sixth grade my sixth grade english teacher would be so mad but it is what it is but it's like he's referencing a lot of the points of like yo like what is your pleasure and how pleasure isn't really the best for you and it's like everybody has the concept of lust because people automatically assume lust is sex it's not always about sex when you're talking about lust when he was talking about that song it's like yo you could be lusting after money you could be lusting after you know whatever it is that you want in life and i found that so i found that so profound amongst other things about how he rapped about his life how he

even switched an album track list to me it's so it's such a beautiful album and he's saying a lot less than how he normally how normal rappers say it in my opinion i'm just it's just very very interesting but that's fair and and i mean the book on him that a lot of people would agree with is that as a lyricist he's absurdly good yes i mean there's a category of like in today's times especially with like kenzo kamar j cole guys like that. It's like, whoa. Yeah, I put him. I actually have a theory. I'm putting it on here. Go ahead. My theory is that J. Cole and Wale are the same rapper.

J. Cole and Wale are the same rapper. They're both equally the same talented individual. You're talking to the right person to make that comment because I was a day one Wale stan. And it's funny i had someone else i think it was mike call lori was in here because he had some sort of business with wale and i was like you know what and now i've seen it the last couple months since he was here but i was like i haven't even heard wale's name in like fucking five years yeah while i used

to bump him all the time he dropped an album a couple months ago yeah that's what i'm saying like he dropped an album right after mike was in here but i still have to listen like i know he did it i've not listened to it was a great album you're gonna get a friend in that in the sense that i know that shit when wale came up like what he was putting out like you remember the seinfeld mixtape yes i mean shit like the mixtape about nothing more about nothing yeah yeah mixtape mixtape about nothing yeah like when when he came out with that that was so different and like innovative yeah dude i used to i used to hear those as like movies playing inside my head from his perspective about like a you know 80s and 90s sitcom of jewish people living in new york but it wasn't about that you know what i mean like it was fucking crazy the mixtape about nothing and you rap about everything and it's like not for nothing it's like one of my top five wale songs is on there like like my top five wale verse is on

there it's the chicago falcon remix where um i'm the best even when i'm cynical handle these beats like with my pen involved so ain't nothing minimal yeah yeah so it was like one of those that verse was so profound you know and then you have you go to the mixtape about nothing where you i mean more about nothing that i don't even need to say anything about that and then you have all back to the future where he was rapping the point is i'm again i'm becoming a stan right now but point is i think wale and jayco are the same rapper and people get mad at me when i say that i think why do they get mad at you because people don't respect wale like let's let's out My whole thing has been this, right?

I have a little bit of a bias against J. Cole because of his fans, and people act like J. Cole is his best thing. J. Cole is an amazing rapper. I just don't think that it's fair that y'all give J. Cole this much credit, and Wale sits in his stands as if he's irrelevant. I think it's just because J. Cole cole has been forget even music for a second though that was the case until while i recently came out with an album over the last five years especially j cole has been much more with attention and culture on on a lot of different like he's in the middle of a lot

of shit but i also even like basketball games at lifetime in the sky which is stupid but i'm just saying but i think i think also what you have to understand is that i think that also plays into like the music industry as well because it's like you have to be honest like i mean i was watching wally's pull-up interview with joe budden and it's like when you when you start to hear like some of the stories about rappers where you you know the label some guy who's on a label that you're on is best friends with your manager or your lawyer and now they start to talk on the back end it's like you don't know what's going on you can't really trust everybody because it's like

your manager may not have your best interest at heart because his best friend works on a label that's screwing you over you know what i mean so it's like when you in that situation and you sign to a label that may not even put you as the priority you now put yourself in a different position like you like and i think the biggest issue is that with wale people don't really understand how talented he is and i say that because it's like a lot think the biggest issue is that with wale people don't really understand how talented he is and i say that because it's like a lot of the stuff j cole has talked about a lot of the things that j cole's content wally has talked about well we talk about what was the song called um while i dropped the song the eye of the tiger right i remember that and the tiger

wood song and we look at j cole now and everybody's like oh my gosh like j cole wrote a song called kevin's heart like who really does that and i'm looking at you guys i'm like yo wale literally wrote this song like almost 10 years ago you know what i mean and it's like they have the same they wrote the only difference that you could really say is the biggest difference between them is that they don't wale is wale in terms of making a hit is a little bit different you know what i mean and sometimes people may not think that he has a lot to say but i think that's also the same thing with j cole where it's like j cole ran out of a lot of things to say so the

only thing he could really talk about is how great he is now wale has always been that great rapper and wale has always had that talent he has the punch lines he has the content the storytelling kind of like j. Cole has, but nobody really pays attention to it because it's like people don't feel like Wally has anything to say. I don't know. Yeah, and I'll say from my end, I never thought that. But look, people, it's narratives. It's whatever some guy says who's got a certain following,

puts out whatever number of characters on twitter that's just a you know mic drop moment that might have no fact to it suddenly becomes a vibe same reason that like and this is like a really stupid one to bring in totally separate but you know the common joke and i do it too is like oh nickelback right like oh my god you're like you know what i mean where we just did that because there's some simplicity to the quote-unquote rock that they brought mainstream they still made hits you know it's not like it was dog it was like there's some songs there like yeah you're moving your head to nickelback but we created this somewhere somewhere like along the lines someone i'm not saying they tweeted out it was probably even before then but someone was like oh he's a

nickelback guy and now it became like oh he's a nickelback and it became this punchline and it gets repeated over and over the now people believe it completely even if it's not completely true some of it might be but whatever and so like especially when you are not the one with that attention i was talking about a couple minutes ago like j cole has more had in the past several years and the cultural revolutions we've seen happen like you know with some of the stuff we talked about earlier in the podcast totally different like some of the racial unrest and things in the pandemic era like when wale is not in the middle of that and it's like oh yeah while a was around people will create the narrative that it's like

they'll forget what made him great that might be very similar or even like the same in a lot of ways as what j cole is and continues to be great for but i think that i think that's not fair because while it isn't it isn't no and i say and i only say that from a sense of when we look at like say for example last year j cole didn't drop a project last year while i dropped the whole mixtape about literally everything that went on last year and named it the perfect storm and not one person talks about that not one person talks about the mixtape i didn't even know that that's my point it's like i had no awareness it's like it's like after a while certain things when we talk about certain rappers certain things become just a label issue and it's

like for me i've always felt that wally has had a label issue because it's like there's no way that it's like every time i talk to my homeboys like yo i think wally's top five yo you're you're bugging how was wally top five i think wally's top five um rapping wise i think big sean is top five rapping wise and people like yo they're both but but it's like the the the issue perception it's not even i mean yeah but it's like the problem is going back to the whole drake yay and kendrick thing is like they're so good that it's like it's almost like they capture all five of the spots and then everybody else is like down here. And that's always been the biggest issue with like the top five, like the top five categories. It's like if we, if I talk about top five culturally, my top five cultural people that have influenced like hip hop is ASAP Rocky, Soulja Boy and Chief Keef.

Minor day hip hop. Yeah. Like they influenced what we do today. If it wasn't for ASAP Rocky, not for nothing, the way people wear Air. Yeah, like, they influenced what we do today. If it wasn't for A$AP Rocky, not for nothing, the way people wear Air Force Ones now, they would not be doing it to keep it a stack. A$AP Rocky,

and I was telling this to Miles and Shan, like, people don't give A$AP Rocky enough respect. I'm just ranting off my music thoughts right now. Kanye was saying this, too. People don't give A$AP Rocky enough respect. Like, A$AP Rocky has two Grammy-nominated artists. He has his own collective he literally like he he literally creates one of the most groundbreaking music videos like two three four

years ago and it's like y'all act like yo he's dating rihanna he don't deserve to be there and i'm looking at y'all like yo you guys don't know who asap rocky is like asap rocky is the reason why the music that we have today is here asap rocky made it so when we listen to music we don't know if it came from la the south or the east coast he's part of the reason why it is yeah okay all right yeah in terms of in terms of him mixing all the sounds together that's what i'm trying to say and for him and for people to look at him as if it's like yo asap rocky is trash it's like asap rocky's never been trash asap rocky's just been an experimental guy and people say that a lot of people said asap really yeah a lot of people a lot of people think like and people say that a lot of people say they said really yeah a lot of people a lot of people think like and people are entitled to their opinion but like

maybe it's just me i don't i don't pay attention to any of that noise i really like if i'm not even gonna pay attention to it with like fucking nickelback of course i'm not paying attention to it you know what i mean like it's just like i'm not like in i don't mean this in a conceited way but it's just beneath what what i need to you know what i mean no i don't need to waste my time with that energy no i just pay attention to it because i like i like seeing where people's thoughts are at because it's like it's it's going to be interesting right because asap rocky's dating rihanna now and like you know they're both musicians it'll be an interesting perspective to see i'm just saying hypothetically speaking

if people don't like rihanna's album how they're going to blame asap rocky if they don't like ASAP Rocky's album they're gonna blame the fact that he's trash and he's doing this and he's doing that but it's like it's not really it's just artists grow you know what I mean yeah and that's the reason why people like Kendrick Wale Big Sean are so important and it's like it's part of the reason why for me about the whole UK thing to bring back all together it's like that's so important to me because as a society just bringing everything back together we got to grow and change it's like the story we've been telling ourselves is like you said america america has this complex where we feel like we have what we need and doesn't need to change but it's like what you don't understand is that you're missing a whole nother world of all these people who have all these different stories

to tell and you and it's not even the fact of like it's more so about the fact you're not even choosing to acknowledge it because of whatever it is whether if it's accents whether if it's your own personal bias or whatever it is and it's just like bro it's like there are people in the uk right now that'll sit here and tell you the stories of the racism that they deal with and you deal with the same thing and the only reason why you don't want to listen to them is crimpinson t like no no this is a good way to bring it full circle though because we just had a pretty amazing like all over the place state of hip-hop discussion yes i'm gonna enjoy listening back to that but it started off with talking about like well did you like donda and we touched that at some points but that whole thing you just raised was born out of the fact once

again that you had you had bbo on there you didn't have you know uk drill rapper or something and so that i'm trying to bring this all full circle because it's complicated but that whole thing was also you had been saying that donda was not it was not like this innovative kanye thing he was just kind of doing the same thing and ripping off what other people were doing with sound where i want to also come into that i mentioned the whole like visionary coming to plagiarizer and shit like that that's that's one point the second layer to it though is that i think you can also i mean there were 28 songs on on the deluxe i think there's like 29 including two part two so let's call it like 27 something like that right you can rip off certain sounds that like i said there's even skips on there for

me where it's like okay yeah i mean you know maybe that for some reason that sounds exactly like what chance would do and like okay whatever there's also a lot of innovation though period to me in my opinion because when kanye goes in there and does this and sits with mike dean and all you know he has access to most genius people in the world to help him cultivate what he wants these mixes are like a fucking religion i mean you see him listen to music for the first time when he's finding a sound you see guys like kanye and i'll not that he's on the same level but a creative genius like a john bellion or something like that where we can watch that on tape and just see like like their face like there's something going on in their mind like with these sounds and these

pitches and these bars that it just hits them different than it hits most people it's special like you know that that's got that original nature to it so where i'm coming back is that like i look at just as off the head examples of like different types of songs praise god jonah with little dirk which i mentioned heaven and hell which my only complaint about that song is it was like two minutes long i wanted a three and a half minute song that song was genius yeah and then even jail which was like a troll of people and also a geniusly put together mix by mike dean and then the final one i would say is off the grid you look at these they all strayed from the gospel sound completely and they went like especially praise god have you listened to that instrumental alone by itself yeah it's actually holy fucking shit yeah it's ridiculous

and baby keem had i mean that was one of the better verses i've ever heard in my life coming in on that album so like when i look at the full body okay you want to throw something like what's it called jesus lord those two to the wind the fucking 11-minute songs, which Jay Electronica did body his verse in that. And guess who had a Jay Electronica song before him? Oh, fuck you. Either way. But still, that's what I'm saying. I'm not sitting here bumping like, Jesus Lord.

Like, that comes out. I'm like, okay, let me skip the Jay's verse. All right, then we'll call it a day. that's what i'm saying i'm not sitting here bumping like jesus like that comes on like okay let me skip the j's first all right then we'll call it that but like these other songs here these are like elements in the album where it's like whoa and then what he did with with the weekend i thought was it was it was simplistic yeah and also a little bit complex that minimalism maximalism thing he does and like i'll listen if the weekend shit on a track i'm gonna listen to it yeah you know so like i appreciate that and that's why i thought it was it was a very good well-rounded album so i at least wanted to put that out there to see if you know i'm pushing back against you who just didn't think it was original at all and didn't

seem no don't don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's okay i'm not saying it's not original what i am saying is that the kind of it goes back to what we're saying about storytelling like chance the rapper told that story he told the story like and i guess what i'm saying is that that story was kind of mimicked and he made it into the kanye story but it kind of felt like if you were to put chance's story on donda like if you i'll say it like this if you let kanye executively produce that album i think that it would sound i think that chance's next album if you were to make that album would sound exactly like don if what i'm saying makes sense what about like all the love and relationship issues though because there was

a lot of personal either direct or indirect references to like the whole you know he's going through the divorce yeah i mean the divorce thing yeah that's also the personal lyrics which yeah i'll always say that definitely that's that's part of kanye's story but i do also would i would also say that in a sense that chance has also had those issues as well so it's like it's more so about the fact of like when you look at the range of everything It kind of does feel like it kind of felt like coloring book extended. I mean at least we have baby came so Yeah, what do you by the way? I do want to touch that before we move on. Okay, that kids 20 years old He came up. He's Kendrick Lamar's cousin. So he has the nepotism advantage of like being You know, he does at least maybe get access to things but i'm gonna

personally i'm a huge fucking fan i'm gonna give all the credit in the world and here's the funniest part man when when he did the first listening party yeah and i had it playing and they're and i'm why and i have twitter open to him working in here and people are they're live tweeting like who's on the tracks because he's not announcing it and they're like oh my god because i'm i'm pumping this song like i'm turning like holy shit this is getting bodied and i see the tweets come in like yo baby keem is bodying this and i'm like i'm like i'm not tweeting back but i'm like yeah baby keem's totally bodying this god damn he's really he's got great stuff and then like one minute two minute they're on the next song three minutes goes by and then i stop and i like, who the fuck is Baby Keem?

He's like, all these people you know, and, like, it sounded like this kind of, like, he belonged there and was born there. Like, this is where he is. And I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? And then I look it up, and I see, like, oh, he's coming out with his first album. He's 20 years old. I'm like, holy shit. And then he comes out with, it's the melodic blue, right? That's what he called it? Yeah. And, he comes out with, it's the melodic blue, right? That's what he called it?

Yeah. And, bro, I mean, my God. Like, it's a different, he's got a different energy to him. But as far as, like, a debut album coming off of writing that verse on Praise God, which turned into one of the biggest songs in the world, I was like, oh, my God, Hello World. This is like Tiger Woods coming into it when he did Back in the Day. Like, Hello World, the whole thing. I have a hot a hot take all right bring me the hot take i know of course

you gotta have one i don't think baby came wrote that whole album like did he get full credits of every single lyric on that he probably did but i think kendrick ghost wrote a lot of those i'll check that but keep going i think that he ghost wrote a lot of those songs. And I'm not discrediting Baby Keem. I think that it was an amazing album. I just think that he was Kendrick's cousin, and Kendrick had three tracks on that album. He had three actual verses on that album. This is a conspiracy theory.

I have to say that. I know. Okay. But I'm saying even though he may have full credits on the album, i still do think that kendrick probably ghost wrote a lot of that stuff for him because it's now it's now a little bit too kendricky if what i'm saying makes sense like if you listen to range brothers range brothers sounds like a full kendrick funny you say that i'm looking at the producers right now and and the writing credits and i was looking at range brothers as you said that the writer kendrick duckworth kind of come on yeah so yeah you know i could see some of that they're like and and it's and that's what i'm saying it's not about saying that

baby keem is not talented i think he is talented i think that kendrick definitely saw the talent i just think that i was talking to i was talking to somebody that i know about this i think the biggest thing is that I think that he also just has to experience the world a little bit more so he has a little bit more to say because it's like It's not like it's not that it's it's not that the content is boring But it seems like we've heard this before and so growing up It's like you want to be in a position where it's like now that you're going to get older, whenever you drop your next album, you got to have shit to say because you can't keep using the concept of, you know,

I used to pay for, mama used to do this, mama used to do this, mama used to do this. Okay, okay. And so now when you get to your next album, you got to, it got to be, yo, like I grew the fuck up and this is the shit that I'm experiencing now as a man. You know what I mean? And that's just what it is.

I think that he's good for a 20-year-old kid who, you know, who's grown up with the a man you know what i mean and that's just what it is i think that he's good for a 20 year old kid who you know who's grown up with the family you know what i mean and that's kendrick as your cousin but that next album like people are going to be looking at you because i don't think kendrick is going to be on that whole album or he's even going to be on the album and he was on two songs officially on that album officially he has a he has a third he has a the song vent kendrick has a verse but they took it off okay so i've listened to that album a bunch i've listened to it in two settings mostly i've listened to it when i'm working out and i've listened to it in the background when i'm working in here and i've heard a lot of the lyrics but i need to do a deep dive and actually like corroborate what

you're saying to be able to speak completely educated on that what i will say is some of the songs that i paid the most attention to i'll use one example to keep it simple the very first song on the album trademark usa yeah that's a baby keem song like i never heard some like that that was for people that haven't heard that that is what i would call a three act song in one song inside of four and a half minutes it's not like 10 minutes and it is just like it comes out feeling a certain type of way and you're like oh hello and then it goes to kind of comes down and and with like a with like a fucking steady vibe and then goes through the roof again and you're like like i listened to that album for the first time an hour after came out

at like 1 a.m on a friday and i'm like fucking in here like i'm on my feet like oh my god what and i think i think you tweeted out you're like oh keem's rapping rapping on this and i'm like fuck yeah he is and so i know that that element exists there would it surprise me and does it not surprise me that i can literally look at the credits right here as you're saying that and corroborate that at least at what i'm looking at like four songs on there that kendrick has an influence as one of the greatest lyricists of all time who also happens to be his fucking cousin yeah including a song on there called family ties which you know let's not bury the lead here yeah no it doesn't surprise me at all and i'm okay with that if your point's taken though if that were to just kind of be the the mo here and he does two studio albums over the next three years or something and

it's kind of the same vibe and you're seeing a lot of the writing credits coming from kendrick then people can start to question what the narrative there is but like i mean you want to start on like some of the features he's done the main one that we actually know that's like a main one in public i mean jesus christ the lyrics on praise god were like i'm sitting in here like and and i'm and i'm repeating i don't even know what i'm saying half the time and it's just stuck in my head yeah like oh my god dude yeah not for sure definitely definitely i i'll agree with that i think that um i don't know about the the two albums and having kendrick still write something then we can make that because like i said ghostwriting you may just not get those credits but you still may have that influence

so i so i oh sure yeah so like i do i do get where you're coming from but if it does sound if it does sound similar like the melodic blue i don't think that i think that we're gonna have to start asking questions like i don't i don't think that he wrote that full album okay all right i'll pay attention okay i knew you had to have a take on that it could have been it could be all you know it was a great album i just don't think it that's fully baby keen some of those lyrics not taking those kendrick verses taking those kendrick songs out i just some of it sounds really like something that kendrick would write nonetheless though impressive 20 year old coming onto the scene oh yes definitely okay all right

cool we'll agree on that but you you had brought up something i just remembered this and it's a little different but fuck it let's just go there you brought up something when we came in that i still gotta like process a little bit because i had no awareness of this but virgil abloh died today yeah like he died like well as we were recording this like and it was it was interesting he died from cancer and he was apparently battling cancer for a couple of years and nobody privately yeah yeah i was just looking at the thing and i mean this is and i think that he's he's a very innovative individual tell people who he is who don't know virgil abloh i don't know what i don't know what the letter stands for but

he is currently the head of lvmh um he's also the owner and one of the one of the co-founders or the actual founder of the off-white brand um he's also i think he's a creative director current well was the current um creative director of louis vuitton the artistic yeah artistic director you have the menswear and, he definitely influenced culture a lot. He's just a creative person. He was, when Kanye went on his disappearing act after the Taylor Swift incident back in 2010, Virgil Abloh, who was also a DJ, was with Kanye West during that time when he was making my beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. So during that time frame, Virgil Abloh was definitely around.

I definitely believe it was him i mean i know kanye and him were friends because kanye's talking about his friends yeah he was a major i didn't know that he was a major influence on that they were together yeah they were he was i forgot where he said this one interview they were saying that they were working on photoshop learning photoshop together like like he was there with him like 100 like that's his that's his man's like It used to be him. There's a picture of Kanye when he had the 808s mohawk with the suit. And there was a couple other people.

I think Virgil's in that picture. I could be wrong, but I think Virgil is in that picture. Virgil has been in Kanye's corner for a while. And I think that that's been, in terms of him being influenced fashion-wise, that was another one of someone that he collaborated with. And I think that it, I think we have to definitely speak to that because he definitely was a cultural icon, definitely being, being one of the first African-American. And I'm going to be taking it further,

being one of the first African creative directors for a brand such as Louis Vuitton and LVMH is very iconic. Being a part of one of the greatest albums that ever created um my beautiful dark twos of fantasy is something to be a testament to his creative vision is very very very very very vast and even just for him to apply simplicity to things like nike dunks and air jordan ones with his off-white collaborations it kind of shows how much he understood the culture and how much he understood the culture and how much he knows shit just works and i think that it's and i think it's a beautiful

thing that when we have creators in in that way just get it and can directly connect with what they're feeling and how they're feeling and how things should look to the consumer not everybody's going to get the air jordan ones or not everybody's going to understand Virgil Abloh's vision. But it's like, as a black man who loves color, who puts color on different types of hues and different types of shades of people, it's really beautiful to see he's getting his flowers for all that he's really done

and how he's really influenced a lot of people and actually gave a lot of people creative direction. And rest in peace to him. And i hope and prayers up for his family and i just hope everybody is is okay during that troubling time honestly i mean look he did get he did get a solid amount of credit during his life which is good because i like to see that it's it's it kind of i mean makes people a legend and stuff but it sucks when you see people never get credit when they live and and then suddenly they die and now suddenly everyone's like holy shit they were amazing so it's nice to see like he actually got that and felt that appreciation while he was here i do think he's gonna get a fuck ton more of it though in his

death because like this whole thing is so interesting to me how this how all these cultural phenomena started to bridge together in a way they never had in say the late 2000s through guys like kanye and stuff like that where for real for real they made like of course fashion and music were always a thing but now they brought them into business together and then they started to also then change culture and make things like from minority cultures that are now mainstream and appreciated to like your quote unquote mom and pop white audience in a way your suburban male white male and things like that where you know if you would have if we would have sat here when we were kids in the 2000s and said hey by 2020 2021 even before them but when we're sitting here in those years we're gonna see not only that say like black culture

inspired streetwear has taken a hold of a lot of the fashion industry but we're gonna see traditional fucking over the top bougie ass brands like louis vuitton yeah and gucci or whatever you know all these different places not only incorporate that but say fuck it that's gonna lead the way now and they take someone like virgil who founds off-white and they they bring them in and say artistic director it's your show baby it's a beautiful thing yeah and i think that going back to what i was saying earlier about the culture it's like it's i'm taking out the societal aspect of everything and like the the downtroddenness and i just and i'll say it like this. It's beautiful to see when we're able to express and we're able to show our culture in such a way and it gets acknowledged. I'm not saying that the acknowledgement is like the end all be all.

But what I mean by that is like it's acknowledged in a sense of we understand, we see that you have talent. And we see how much you understand culture and we understand how much you have been a part of culture. We want to be able to help apply that culture to what we're doing. that is built on a culture that has originally been in a lot of cases for a lot of higher class white people it's beautiful i don't know what i'm saying makes sense in that hundred percent it's it's it it just shows that like this is what happens when you're able to respect somebody's culture acknowledge that youledge that, you know, that culture is important. And actually apply it and put people in position to apply that culture the way that they see fit. And I'll say that a lot of Virgil's collections for the men has been some of the most beautiful pieces I've seen. You know what I mean?

I mean, just start with Off-White. I mean, you know I love simplicity. And a lot of people don't realize it but they love it it's a natural human thing yeah i mean jesus christ man like even as someone i'm never gonna lie and act i'm a simple guy right i'm wearing some clothes that i bought fucking 11 years ago but like i love fashion like looking at it and seeing what the mind's eye comes up with that's why i was talking about my buddy waheed incredible artist who integrates hip-hop culture and fashion into his work and it's like i could look at that all day yeah it's like oh i'd

never wear that but god damn like wow yeah and to see the movement that was not a wave that was a movement that and it wasn't just off-white in fairness obviously we have to give our flowers to different companies here but like to see that movement created almost in concert with each other, where you start to then appreciate a different cultural side of simplicity. Yeah. It's not just this, and no disrespect,

like to Steve Jobs, obviously, but it's not just this regular old white space apple for nobody. It's more like, yo, there's a bend on this that shows you if like me a suburban white guy like a different end of the spectrum that you can appreciate i think that's awesome the downside to it that i often think about because i think in culture like you and i always talk about call out culture and stuff and how stupid it is but like we get dangerously down this slope of calling anything cultural appropriation on things now when people do

some shit that's clearly like what the fuck man okay fine but there's other times where people are just actually now you know maybe like regular old white people are appreciating yeah or that's the absolutely the intention like yo for example black people came up with whatever x style is that's fucking awesome i'm in and then they might get called out for being like oh you're culturally appropriating to me they're just like that's not the intention they're like no we fucking respect this so i kind of wonder why that still exists when we've now even quote-unquote mainstreamed great even culturally black designs and things like that through things like off-white um it's because the thing is it's not just about it depends on what you're doing

and what it is it's like for example we'll say i'll use the common example of black women can't wear their hair out they can't wear an afro in a workplace because it's it's deemed unprofessional versus still yeah someplace I'm using this as an example versus okay white women gets gets micro braids with extensions and it's like oh my gosh it's it's it's it's this new innovative style it's like when Kylie Jenner gets her micro braids it's like oh my gosh it's so innovative and it's like bro it's and she and it becomes irritating to a lot of women for example it's because it's like kylie will now kind of make it seem like she just came up with this idea and like a lot of news feeds will be like oh my gosh it's so innovative and it's like

if you're really in tune with the culture you're gonna understand that kylie jenna did not did not create micro braids she did not create knotless braids like do you think she really takes credit for that though you see i'm not gonna sit here and like try to act like the kardashians don't know no it's the issue the issue is even if she let's say that she doesn't privately publicly she doesn't say anything and that's part of the issue it's like when you have when you have a culture you kind of have to acknowledge where it came from if i'm going to sit here and talk if i'm going to sit here if people are going to sit here and talk about um say um actually perfect

example when we talk about the lion king for example how's this great disney movie we never give credit to the original Lion King movie that came out 1960 something that was an anime that was a and that was an actual Japanese movie. I know nothing about this Yeah, so I forgot the guy's name. There is a there is a movie. Thank you. There is a movie that essentially Disney that Disney essentially bit off of and a lot of the keyframes that the lion king has came from that film and a lot of people don't know that and i'm using that as an example as cultural appropriation to say it's like you kind of took that he took those elements and people don't know about where it originally came from unless you look it up i just want to read this so people know what you're talking about

kimba the white lion this is right off of wikipedia people kimba the white lion japanese shonen manga series, written and illustrated by Osamu Tezuka, which was serialized in the manga shounen magazine from November 1950 to April 1954. An anime based on the manga was created by Mushi Productions. Where's the part I just saw about Lion King? It was saying the Lion King controversy. That's what I wanted.

As a number of journalists, scholars, and fans watch Disneyney's animated feature the lion king they notice characters plot lines sequences and events in the story resembling those of kimba and here and what you're pointing out is that there was there was a lack of acknowledgement of that like they were acting like oh no this is just us and that that's where i have a problem and the bigger and the bigger issue is that you'll see a lot of clothing brands do this, too. I'm going to plug it in. Like, I have a friend of mine who works for this jersey company called Brown Mill, right? They just dropped their new line, right? And one of the funniest things that you'll see is that they had this particular font that they had on their clothes, and it was innovative.

I'm actually going to go buy myself a sweater probably sometime this week whenever i decide to go to north jersey and what you find later is that in a couple weeks later h&m has the same exact font and it's like and it's like not for nothing this isn't the first time h&m has done that this isn't the first time like you know a company like supreme may have done that to somebody else you know like people like um what's the company's name it's um kirby whatever his name is i forgot his name but kirby john something i'm missing i'm forgetting his name he bit off another brand from jersey as well um there's a guy in jersey that he bit off of um and he has a story definitely john raymond yeah kirby john raymond and it's like we have these different situations where it's like a lot of these people culturally take this stuff that's

influenced by one thing or another and they just apply it to themselves because they're a bigger brand and what happens now is that these people don't get that acknowledgement the people that created it don't get that acknowledgement and so now going back to someone like kylie jenner who you know does a lot of different things that a lot of black women do, and they don't get their credit. It sucks because now Kylie looks as this innovator, you know, Kirby looks like this innovator, H&M looks like these innovators for fast fashion. And it's like, there's these little people at the bottom, like the brown mills. I'm not saying they're little, but I'm saying this in a sense of like, they're the smaller entities. These smaller entities have created these visions for themselves

because they're so creative and then now the bigger companies just take that and they mass produce it and it looks like they came up with the idea and it sucks you know what i mean and it's like not for nothing i've watched i literally watched brown mills start from them selling shirts in my student center when i'm going to the dining hall to now they have their own store and so for me i'm not like i'm not a part of it but for me to sit here and look at it and now i see h&m stealing font it's like bro it's like it's a you're taking what they thought would be culturally appropriate for what they're doing and with no credit with no credit and now it's like oh my gosh this is so cool now that glad you said that that is cultural appropriation yeah that's that's

that's what that's what it is yes that's where i'm like 100 use it all day what i feel like is we've extended it to ridiculous places where no one's monetizing any like i here's an example adam levine got cornrows i've said this one before this is just like a blatant example he got like blonde cornrows just like i don't know if he was like on vacay he was on vacation or something and he meant nothing by it other than like oh this was a fun thing to do anyone with half a brain who's who has been accessing the internet at any point or accessing has eyes to see a tv in the last 25 years knows damn well that the cornrow look was created by the black community. And it is, it is absolutely something that they innovated. And I, I mean,

I grew up in Allen, I was a fan. I fucking love cornrows, right? No one's sitting here going, Adam Levine created the cornrow, but they, they got all over him, like cultural appropriation and all that. And he was like, taking it back. Like, Oh my God, that's not what I meant at all. And to me, that's where it's's like you want to talk about taking it to a place where it's not supposed to be that's an example i think that in that particular instance i think what it the problem is not about maybe the adam levine but the company or the the news outlet that'll now say something that adam levine did something new. Like, let's say, for example. They're not going to say that, though, about cornrows.

But what I'm saying is, it may not be about cornrows for black people. It's about, it's like saying, okay, cool. Adam Levine did cornrows. Now, next thing you know, GQ's talking about five ways, five cornrow styles that you could do for your hair this summer. Talking about white people. Yeah. And it's like, for them, it becomes a situation where it's like all right now it's becoming a situation where it's like now you're using this for your own monetary gain and you're not even really referencing

this type of where it really came from that's also not adam levine's fault you know it's not his fault but that's what i'm getting at but don't call him out call out gq for doing that but i think the issue that happens with that it's not i understand it's not his fault, but I think what happens with that in a lot of cases is that people see that, but they see where it's going to go. And that's why they get upset. feel should be cognizant of the fact that when you do certain things even though you may mean no harm if you do or say certain things that may that even though you may not be a cultural appropriator somebody else will see that and think that they can do that free of charge and that's i think why people get so upset about the celebrities doing it that are not white like or that are not black black not black sorry yeah and that that that's the biggest thing it's i get where you're coming

from it's just more so it's about being cognizant of the fact of your celebrity you have influence this will literally spread quickly and now all of a sudden you have 10 year old johnny running around with cornrows in his hair as if he as if he knows how to do that shit how do you kill that though you kill it by having more people just not make it a news story by just doing things that they appreciate and being like yo I appreciate that and then eventually no one actually being able to take advantage of it and so I think when we when we micro just demonize one example like that then it scares off other people from even like trying things and if they

have attention like a celebrity or something don't try things just for the sake of attention i don't i don't ever want to award that that's not what he was doing there yeah right so like i agree with your point i still what i will do in the future that i don't know if you'll agree with is if i see individual situations where there's clearly no intent or harm foul in fact quite the opposite and then other people take advantage of it i'm gonna say like yo the gqs of the world let's call out that if we're gonna do it that's stupid let's not then demonize this person right here and and i mean you and i both know it and we feed into it i'll admit on my end i feed into it

for some things but we're more in people in positions of power we're more likely to see the negative effects of things they do or not more likely to see it but we're more likely to be loud and calling that out when it happens because it's the easy thing to do i think and i think you're right i just think that how do i say this It goes back to what we were talking about earlier about race. Like I said, for long periods of time, black women, black men, you can't have dreads. You can't have dreads at work. Dreads are unprofessional. You can't have braids.

Braids are unprofessional. You need to have some type of professional hairstyle. For black men, if you grow your dreads out, it's not professional. Even if we know as a community people actually pay to get that shit done to look nice right not for nothing a lot of white people you can they can dread their hair they can have their hair any type of similar style or to an extent obviously in corporate america to an extent to an extent to an extent it's like you can do certain things to an extent obviously like you we all know that you can't have

like a uh you can't have spiked blue hair to an extent obviously like you we all know that you can't have like a uh you can't have spiked blue hair to an extent like we all understand that yeah but i'm saying this in a sense of like if you want to have a steve jobs cut for example you can have that steve jobs cut because it's natural but yeah a woman can't have a a black woman can't have a protective style she can't have her dreads out that's where the issue comes in so now when you have a better example by the way yeah wouldn't you have a better yeah so when you have like an adam levine come in and now gq speaks about it now the workplace i mean we're reviewing the the dress codes you know oh poor rules you know and now you see all these different people come in and it's almost like a slap into into these people's faces where it's like yo like just last

year the company policy was that i can't have my protective style out. And I wasted all this money trying to make sure that I was looking professional. So I keep my job now. Susan can come in and she can dread her hair and she doesn't get any slack for it. That's not fair to me. You know what I mean? And I think that's and I think that's a lot of the reasons why I say like when it comes to a lot of white white people it's not just about the fact of yo like you guys are these evil people but sometimes like the the the annoyance comes from the fact that there's not enough mindfulness and cognizance of the fact of there

are some things that y'all can get away with that easily and y'all could change the rules and it works for you guys well yeah but it's like we have to go through all these loops and hassles to even get the basic respect of us feeling like we could do what we not do what we want but be ourselves and still feel okay without feeling like we're doing something wrong it's about and this is a sick way of putting it but it's also true yeah in the past especially when it was even worse it's about a combination of mathematical representation yeah and oh what's the word i'm looking for cultural baseline expectations yeah so like mathematically there are more non-black people and even like white people obviously than there are black people yeah by a i forget the exact percentages right now but it's it's significant

still to this point so what is a more likely in a room to be recognized whatever like fashion ability with what you do with your body a white person over a black person strictly by that there might be five white people in a room while there's one black person yeah so if more people then who are across decision-making jobs at different places happen to be white and even in an equal world where just mathematically that's going to be the case strictly because there's more representation their baseline is going to be what white people quote unquote are willing to accept so then as things get more accepted from other cultures in the white diaspora it gets annoying to you and people in the black community when things that you would have gotten shit for or fired even

five years ago yeah now we're okay even if it's okay for you now too it's like well why the fuck wasn't it okay five years ago yeah i get that, that's the biggest thing. I guess that's always been the biggest thing That's fair But what one last thing before we get out of here that I could not not talk with you about because it also hasn't been talked about on this podcast yet, it hasn't come up but it's still all obviously kind of simmering and There's probably a lot more things we're going to hear about about this for

better or worse but the whole travis scott thing at astroworld do you have any thoughts on that so yes travis scott is not at fault. Travis Scott's duty is to bring people to pay for the Astroworld Festival. Travis Scott does not know shit about shit about running a music festival. So for us to now blame him, to blame Drake, makes no fucking sense. Drake was there as a guest. He was paid to be a guest.

Travis Scott's team, more than likely, was not in charge of the festival. They hired an external vendor. There was. Live Nation was involved. Yeah, not even just Live Nation. There was more than that, but yes. It goes down to the smaller. And I got so pissed about this because it's like the issue the issue with why the issue with this whole thing for me was that you listen to baby keen when you go work out i'm not listening

to lost souls in the fucking gym i'm not that's it if i'm under the influence of alcohol i probably went and probably bought drugs before the festival like a lot of people do before music festivals smoked weed molly whatever let's call it what it is and i'm on edge travis scott comes out and i rage out and i act out is travis scott at fault for how you act out when no bystanders comes on if I just get drunk and no bystanders comes on and all I do is bob my head like I do when I'm going to work it's Travis Scott at fault for that how the crowd reacts to certain things is not Travis Scott Travis Scott's responsibility and you can't blame him for how these people acted under the influence of whatever they're taking let's call it what it is we both went to school we seen how a lot of these frat boys act when

they get drugs in the system and they have alcohol they run through fucking doors they jump on fucking tables and break them so now so now not for nothing you now had these young kids who are all in college now come in by and large yeah by and large came in and did that now we're younger too yeah younger and then not for nothing in addition to that you are now putting travis scott you're not holding him liable for the situation of having a smaller vendor who is in charge now i'm not talking about the big entity of who made the festival those big entities that make the festival hire smaller entities that do the small things like whether it's drinks food snacks it's like a

corporation yeah it's like a corporation but you hire these small people and you know what those super small people do they put their ads up on craigslist on indeed they do all that stuff they even may do a word of mouth where it's like hey i'm hiring these people i did i did that because i worked in a i worked at i did the pga tour like 2017 2016 really yeah and the guy and and how he told me that he did tell me yeah and like what ended up happening was that like the guy he just we met in like some back of a restaurant like hey like i'm hiring 13 people for this to end the third i've never cooked a fucking festival hamburger in my life they come in they teach you on the spot hey this is this until when it's 136 degrees you take it off this that and the

third so my thing is that these super small entities hire these people. Some of these people didn't know shit about shit because they didn't know shit about shit. They just got hired. So now to hold Travis Scott liable for the hiring practices

of all these smaller entities, which now go into the big entity that basically executed the festival, is stupid. That $2 billion lawsuit is not going to happen. That's Tony Busby being tony busby he can go fuck himself to be honest with that's all right that's our guy he can go fuck himself yeah disrespectfully and that's my whole thing it's like the travis scott thing is kind of annoying and the last thing i'll say is

this bring it back we've talked about race a lot today i find it ironic that we have we have this much hate for a black man saying his music is demonic. It's nihilistic. It's this, that, and the third. Not for nothing. And I'm not throwing this out there. What is heavy metal? Yeah.

When you listen to Metallica, people fucking smash their guitars on stage. And with Travis, it's an act. That's why people buy it. It's not like a thing. It's an act. Yeah. And it's like you have all these different things. You have mosh pits. You have mosh pits going on all these other places and nobody says anything but

the moment a black man who's at the top of his career one of the most marketable artists in the world yeah now this happens and now you're telling me that this was bigger than the fact of 400,000 people who smoked a bunch of weed and fucking and fucking woodstock that shit was not this is more important than 10 people yes these people are important. But the thing is, it's more important than the fact that women were literally getting raped in the crowds at Woodstock. And people don't know about that. And you know what? And I'm not even disagreeing. I'll discredit for the sake of our argument here just because something like that is so fucking long ago.

It's a different world. But I'm happy this is your opinion on it. And I want to add more context, too, to see what you think. fucking long ago it's a different world yeah but i'm i'm happy this is your opinion on it i and i want to add more context too to see what you think but that is my opinion as well and again we got to see more stuff come out just see who knew what but i'll admit i'm a travis fan i've talked about before on the pod i i'm very very interested in him as an artist and a human being he's he's an interesting guy and this is a situation where he's actually going to get more hurt because of how he is and to elaborate on that travis scott and kanye west are similar in that they are socially

abrasive. Yes. They come by it honestly. And I think they both, I know Kanye's talked about it a lot. I think Travis has talked about it for himself as well. He's not this, you know, Mr. Mayor of the room kind of guy. He's like, he's a fucking like, no, no, no. Like, boom, boom, boom. This is how we're going to do it.

And like, he doesn't the delivery is not the intended delivery on a lot of things if people really want to understand who travis scott is please and this is gonna make a bigger point about this whole thing please watch this documentary look mom i believe i can fly on netflix it's fucking phenomenal it is it is straight up they had home cameras just video cameras just following him around for like a year that's it like there's no narrative you just see what it is and the reason that's also a part of a bigger argument is because we talked some point today about the narratives of stories and how people change them you saw immediately this entire hit campaign happen with all the attention

going on social media definitely especially on tiktok and they failed to show that this is like his festival it's his it's his super bowl he puts it on in his hometown they failed to show that he shut this thing down an hour and 11 minutes and it was supposed to go about almost two hours he shut it down because shit was going down because he finally got a hold of it they also failed to show all the videos of him pointing out people in the crowd saying i think someone's wrong and they also fail to show the context that this shit happens now people don't die like this at concerts because again they did the concert promoters set up a bad environment in the sense that it was far too packed in they're going to get lawsuits not even just from tony busby and they're going to lose money and they should and if by the way if Travis had any responsibility to that

and personally ignored some of it he has some liability too and he'll have to take some responsibility for that I don't think the intention was bad because he puts on a banger of a show and not for nothing bringing it back to the documentary

Travis Scott is known as literally he might be the best performer live performer on planet fucking earth his concerts are insane and yes and this is not his responsibility documentary travis scott is known as literally he might be the best performer live performer on planet fucking earth his concerts are insane and yes and this is not his responsibility people do roll on some serious fucking molly and go out of their minds at these things just like they do at edm concerts and shit exactly where they're picking up people out of the crowd so what was happening minus the fact that he didn't know people were dying credit by the way those kids who were trying

to go to the concert people and scream there are people dying and they weren't listened to yeah that's where those people are going to get in trouble and they should travis scott didn't see from where he was anything different than what happens at his previous concerts go watch his documentary where he points out whoa whoa whoa we got man down right there get him get him get him get him get him all right cool let's go and to add and to add on and to add on to that like you got to understand what you got to understand is that even with the people that tried to get the media people's attention like i'll say i mean this is me just this is my headcanon it's just you you got to understand that like your headcanon yeah i like that that's this is an anime term of like what makes sense and what doesn't make sense but it's

like this is my hand it's like yo you're working with apple and it's being streamed all over the world yes so my thing is that apple probably has an allotted budget for that so now when you also hire some of these people i'm assuming they probably handpick these people probably hire based off resume i don't know right this is probably some of the biggest stuff of their careers of their filming careers so now my thing is that when they're doing that stuff apple is such a strict and like very strict company to the point where it's like you don't if something go wrong let's say for example saying this hypothetically speaking if something goes wrong and one of the cameras shut out and he's in charge of camera ef whatever whether or not he was trying to help somebody he's losing his job and what you have to understand is

that looking back on it now just just even from a selfish perspective, some of these people are not valuing their jobs over those people that are dying or going to the hospital or passing out. I'm just going to keep it 100. Wait, they're not what? Some of those people who are working those jobs, you know, some people have those biggest career, like those biggest points in their career. In the moment, you're saying. Yeah. They're not risking their job and their livelihood for the rest of their life just because they see something they think is normal by the way yeah they're used to

that something they don't even know what's going on you know what i mean and so it's like when for them it's like if you see somebody just climbing up and they know that you had a bunch of young kids they're not gonna listen immediately they're like yo y'all need to bounce like i'm not dealing with that you know what i mean because apple is is a very, very, very rigid company. I'm assuming that even if some shit was going down and they seen some people die, I'm assuming that even if they fucked up the camera, that dude's still getting fired

and that's the end of his livelihood. And you gotta understand, it's like when people are, and it goes back to what we're saying, this story has been interesting because it's like, you're not putting in context for some of these people. Some of these people

will probably never get this opportunity again if they f up and it's like i'm not saying these people are not important but what i am saying is that a lot of these people are making it seem like they're the most selfish people in the world but it's like when you're given that opportunity to a lot of these people would be selfish as well and it's like you're blaming these people for doing what i think a lot of us would probably do and that's why i just think that this whole thing is not fair to travis it's not fair to drake and i'm not saying this because i'm some celebrity apologist it's just yo like you're not yeah be not be account like be honest and be accountable because what happens is that in a lot of cases y'all do this this shit happened

and now you're trying to let's say for example timmy's mom dropped him off at astroworld this kid picks up molly with his friends and he smokes when he drinks and he's under the age of 21 and now he comes back yeah he travis scott didn't do that and now timmy's mom is upset of that and she's like oh well if he never would have went to that astroworld festival oh he probably would have done that no he sits here and he drinks in his room every night like how are you going to sit here and blame travis scott for the stuff that your son already had a habit of doing like this stuff is a learned this stuff is a learned habit when you're out and you party and all that stuff that they're doing is a habit so you can't blame somebody who also probably can't see past 10 15 feet from where they're at

when he has fire when he has hella lights, to now say some shit that's going on in H-36, 300 feet back, I'm liable for that. He can't be liable. That's all I got to say on that. Completely agree. Completely agree. He, the point you're making is essentially that society is constantly, especially in social media, therefore, where the court of public opinion is they're throwing stones from glass houses and acting like that person i'm offended that person would ever have done that i would never and no you probably fucking would have there are a lot of people like you and me who

do think i think the correct way and say like well no realistically not that they're not going to make an example out of them and lose some money and someone's going to get sued because someone has to be liable because people died i understand that's how it works to an extent but like we would at least be like from a human standpoint be like okay we understand how that could have happened and how we might have done it in that position yeah unfortunately that's not what gets attention when people are tweeting what gets attention is when people are like fuck them fry them put them all through the court system take them for all they're worth fuck travis scott let's make video examples that we selectively edit of different artists in the past who have

done this and not play the videos of Travis doing the same thing in the past and stopping it let's take away all the context and I'm not even saying like again it's very clear the setup of the actual venue was poor in this one someone's going to go down for that and they should whoever was the company that set up a system where I don't know if you saw it but like people I know concerts are packed in you and I have been to them but like this was like people were literally like their feet were off the ground because they were so stuffed yeah and and they also came out and said well travis scott and his team were warned about this at a time they warn every person before every concert ever because it's like reading a miranda right for these different cities and places that host it just so they can say, we're not liable.

So that's not relevant. And like, you know, we could go on about this all day, but it sounds like we're in complete agreement. I don't know what's going to happen with him. And I think, unfortunately, the world is now for a long time going to lose its best live performer, at least one of them but which is sad to me but also it's sad that people died and hopefully like some of those things that are controllable at all these concerts they actually take a lesson from this and instead of just like frying travis scott for it be like hey this has been a wider problem across music now let's fix it all i'll say is if a lot of these artists start doing concerts exclusively through live nation and zoom don't be surprised and that's all i gotta say on that fair enough yeah moose that's a good

place to end it man yeah we just did i'll probably pick it up like 10 15 minutes into one when we were talking i'll figure it out later but we definitely did three hours so listen i was i was basically holed up with covid there for two weeks and my schedule is now good but it was like I had to cancel like two people and then move them around and they couldn't do it

so thank you for coming in on short notice to get this out load up this week I appreciate you and it was actually

coincidentally great timing too with everything going on but thoroughly enjoyed doing it again brother yes we'll do it in the future always

thank you no problem always all right dude all right bro i'll see you soon all right everyone else you know what it is give it a thought get back to me peace