Julian Dorey Podcast - 😱 #85 - Cults, Relationships, & Documenting The Varginha Alien Incident of 1996 | Alessi Allaman

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

Alessi Allaman is a Podcaster and Documentary Staffer. He traveled to Brazil last summer with renowned UFOlogist and Director, James Fox, to film an upcoming Documentary on the 1996 Varginha UFO Incident. The film will be a follow-up to Fox’s 2020 feature, “The Phenomenon.” Alessi also hosts a podcast called “The Social League.” ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Intro; The Rajneesh Movement Cult; The Stories behind its leader, Osho; The cult that was the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1920s and 1920s; Philip Zimbardo and The Stanford Prison Experiment 35:26 - The psychological effects of method acting; Heath Ledger & Method acting with the Joker; The story behind who Heath modeled the Joker after; How the human mind is susceptible to cults and power; The Cancel Culture Cult; “Meaning and Purpose” are behind Cancel Culture’s origins; Alessi is worried about certain effects of the Metaverse 1:05:21 - The psychology behind our bias in believing who people are; Julian talks about how a recent political conspiracy group got psychologically tricked; Love masks differences that can cause problems later; The double edged sword of being direct with your significant other 1:25:17 - The Sex & Friends conundrum; Why people want to get married less these days; Alessi and Julian joke about when relationships fail 1:49:19 - How Alessi got involved in James Fox’s upcoming Varginha UFO Documentary; James “Jimmy” Fox’s background tracking Aliens and UFOs; Julian begins grilling Alessi like a cheeseburger regarding the findings in Fox’s previous documentary, “The Phenomenon” 2:08:24 - Varginha Alien Sighting Story # 1: Carlos Sosa; “Bad things happen to good people”; Sosa’s reaction when he was taken back to the original site; Virginia Alien Sighting Story # 2: 3 Little Girls, A V-Shaped Foot, and Ammonia; The Men in Black?; The Wall Street Journal Article from 1996 on a mystery surrounding the sighting; Julian now grills Alessi like an overcooked Steak regarding further knowledge on the witnesses 2:32:51 - Varginha Alien Sighting Story # 3: The Military Driver (Eric Lopes) & Marco Cherese; “WHAT’S IN THE BOX?!?”; Remembering the greatest News Report of all time; The Mysterious Blackhawk Choppers; “How fast was this Alien running?”  2:56:19 - What happened to Marco Cherese?: Eric Lopes almost murdered James Fox in the face; Revisiting Commander David Fravor’s sighting story; Aliens and the meaning of life; Why James Fox thinks aliens could be a great unification opportunity; The heaviness of an alien conspiracy if true ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q  ~ PRIVADO VPN FOR $4.99/Month: https://privadovpn.com/trendifier/#a_aid=Julian   Get $100 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover: https://eight... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The men in black. They walk in. I think it was either three or four this time and again are they wearing sunglasses or like that's a good point i don't remember i don't remember that point it was late at night she said it was like close to midnight so i don't need you to look right here straight into the light thank you your name is helen keller you are deaf dumb and blind you have lived here your entire life you never saw us we were not here my partner you do not know his name. What's cooking, everybody? If you are on YouTube right now, please hit that subscribe button. Hit that like button on the video.

And as always, if you have a second, we'd love to see you drop a comment in the video comment section as well. To everyone who has been doing that, thank you very much. Huge, huge help. To everyone who's listening on Apple or Spotify, thank you for checking out the show there. If you haven't already, be sure to hit that follow button on either one of those platforms and leave a five-star review if you have a second. And I look forward to seeing you guys again for future episodes. Now, I am joined in the bunker today by my friend, Mr. Alessi Alamont. Alessi is the host of a podcast called The Social League, down into three distinct parts, as it turned out. The first hour or so, we talked about cults and psychology, which Alessi told a story about a guy he had on his podcast who was involved in a cult I'd never heard of. Very, very interesting. The next 45 minutes, we talked about relationships and psychology around them.

So that was more funny than anything. I was laughing when I was editing. But then the last 90 minutes, and I say this all because these were wildly different topics. But anyway, the last 90 minutes, we talked about the Barjinha 1996 alleged UFO incident. And I mentioned that Alessi was now a documentary guy because he'll explain how it happened. But he found his way onto this production that they went and filmed over this past summer. And it is run by the way the documentary is directed by james fox who is one of the preeminent ufologists in the world he's been on joe rogan he's been on logan paul and he's a guy who looks at things for burden of

proof purposes so he's more likely to look at stuff and say yeah i don't know about that versus they saw an alien which i like so it's been interesting to get a first-hand view of that from Alessi as he's been going through this process and he's going to edit the documentary with James for a month I'm not sure if I said that but he's doing that in the next couple months so when he sat down with me there's probably 40 to 50 percent at least of background info as far as like fact checking some of the people and as far as where they came from like people that interviewed that he is not aware of at the moment and admittedly i grilled him like a cheeseburger when he was in here so what i liked

is that when alessi didn't know something he said he didn't know what i want to see is when this documentary is done in a few months and comes out would love to have another conversation with him and fill in those blanks maybe have james in here as well and go through everything to try to pick it apart because look you got to come at this stuff when it especially when it involves aliens with a skeptical view but yeah i i wonder about the meaning of life as far as there being other forms of life out there as well so where there's something that is as interesting as this 1996 story i want want to talk about it. And there was definitely some time for some good laughs because I was picking them apart real good on some of it, but I thought he held himself up very, very well. So I'll let you guys be the judge of the rest of it. But that said, you know what

it is. I'm Julian Dory, and this is Trendfire. Let's go. This is one of the great questions in our culture. Where is the news? You're giving opinions and calling them facts. You feel me? Everyone understands this, but few seem to do it. If you don't like the status quo, start asking questions. There you go. like the status quo start asking questions i never went into the conspiracy route because like you said there were more other things concerning my life like being in college trying to be a frat star trying to have the best time

my life but then spending some time thinking i'm like dude let's just like what are all these conspiracy theorists you know what is this term where does it come from like what is all about cia cia exactly and then i started going down that rabbit hole and just like yeah i still consider myself a very skeptical guy like most things like yeah you're not you're not you ask a lot of questions about this stuff you're not the guy that hits me up saying this is true this happened it's like what do you think of this yeah that's a good way to go about it because even though they may have hijacked that term from higher places and certainly made a lot of things into quote-unquote conspiracy theories that absolutely are not they have a ton of elements of truth to them there is a lot of bullshit out there

despite all that so sifting through that especially on the internet where a lot of bullshit out there, despite all that. So sifting through that, especially on the internet, where a lot of things can at first glance be made to look pretty fucking good, and then suddenly, boom, that's not real. It's very, very important to go into it level-headed as you do, and not for nothing, shit, I wasn't level-headed about much when I was 21. So that's pretty impressive. I think you have to. You've got to go in as a skeptic about anything.

I feel like when you go in with that mindset where you go in questioning you know as long as you question you try to get to a deeper truth hopefully you'll get somewhere you'll get to maybe an answer of like oh maybe this isn't true or it is true but if you go in accepting it you know prematurely you know that's how you lead to cults and that's how you lead to groups where you can be hijacked of your ideology and like we've seen that historically like i remember one of my other guests i brought on which is probably one of the best podcasts i've still done to this day was like the fourth episode was like a former teacher of mine and i remember i took him in high school he was a rhetoric teacher his name's jamal hunt and he casually when in the first day of class he said my parents were in a

cult and i was just like what the heck this is crazy no way that was a really early episode of very great this is number four yeah i was gonna say um and i was like i remember at the time being like oh that's so crazy i know someone whose parents were in a cult and then when i started the podcast what kind of cult i'll get to it it's good so yeah when i started the podcast i was like i need to revisit this like i need to bring up jamal one of my favorite teachers and i looked yeah, when I started the podcast, I was like, I need to revisit this. Like, I need to bring up Jamal, one of my favorite teachers. And I looked into it, like, what was the cult? And it was the Rajneesh cult in Oregon. So... I'm not familiar with that one.

So that one is the one where they had a massive commune in Oregon. And it was run by this guy, and I'm already kind of blanking, but there's a great documentary series on netflix called wild wild country and the head guy of it i think it would be good to look it up because i'm forgetting i will but um how do you spell it rajneesh r-a-j-n-e-e-s-h osho yes there we go i remember now and oh i got it yeah rajneesh colt there we go. I remember now. And, oh, I got it. Yeah, Rajneesh Kolt. There you go. Okay. So it's the Rajneesh Kolt, and it was run by this guy, Osho. Osho, exactly. So what happened was his religion, we'll call it, or we'll call it the cult, started in India.

And in India, and this is kind of weird, is like a lot of the ideologies, the things he talks about are actually really good. It's a lot about being skeptical, being, you know, growth mindset, seeing things for more than just what they are. Like a lot of people, you could get into it being like, oh, I totally am on board with this idea. Like this is great. This is all about self-development and proving yourself. And like to this day, you know, like Naval, one of the guys who's a thought leader today.

Ravikant. Yeah. He still talks about how he likes quotes of Osho or like things he said. So this cult in particular isn't one where it's necessarily horrible. There are some good things, aspects to take away from it. But it was in India.

And when it was in India, essentially the people in India didn't like what was going on there. So they're like, we have to find a new home. Let's go to the United States, you know, freedom of religion. They fly to the US and they're like, where can we go oh oregon sounds about right all right

it sounds right there's a bunch of free territory we can just set up a commune right there and see what happens and i think it was in the 70s if i'm remembering and essentially set this commune and they became this sex crazy festival cult where the people were dressed in orange. And what happens is they said sex crazy. Well, they would be naked. They would have like imagine like Coachella. They'd be dancing like crazy. They'd be naked. Just being fucking everywhere.

Yeah. Just yeah. There was like rules like you can only have one pint of beer a day. And what was it like? You had to do manual labor. And honestly, this is the craziest part of this cult that they were able to solve in a weird way was the homeless issue.

And what they did was they allowed homeless people into the cult. And what they did was they gave these homeless people, obviously the ones not with mental disorders that can't do anything and need serious help. But they got the ones that are on the street and can't get up. They gave them tasks.

They gave them purpose. So when you join the cult, imagine if you're a lawyer or a doctor. Guess what? You come in, you're going to go garden. You're going to go dig over here. You're going to help set up the bathrooms. You're going to help set up the little cabin

you're going to live in for the rest of your life, right? And all these homeless people, everyone became equals, homogeneous because everyone's wearing the same clothes. So you have no idea who's who. It like a socialist utopia exactly exactly and then what ends up happening is you and join the day you know having fun building the commune and then you get lectures from osho and when osho spoke everyone gathered everyone showed up everyone was quiet and he'd be the guy where he'd be sitting there and just quiet for moments and it's like he would never blink that was one of the weird things he never

blinked and then he would say something like look at yourself and think and be like oh wow this is crazy pretty much he just ripped a bong and got up there and left it all but yeah he connects with these people so So my teacher's parents, they joined us. Where did he live though? Where did Osho live? Did he live in a regular little hut too? No, he had Rolls Royces pull in. He pulled in with like Rolls Royces,

pulled into there and he had a private jet, like tons of money. There we go. That's how it works. And then essentially the downfall was there was biochemical weapons because what happens, they tried to get into the politics of money. Yep. There we go. And then, and then essentially the downfall was there was biochemical weapons because what happens, they tried to get into the politics of Oregon. So they started creating, they started going into the water because the town nearby actually disliked what was happening because they were trying to take over. So they changed all the street names. They

changed the store names. They were trying to change everything of this town that no one bothered in the middle of nowhere, Timbuktu. And now they want to change it all. And the people, they were frustrated. Like, what are you doing? You can't come in here and just change our way of life. Like, we're off the grid for a reason. Now you're here messing with us.

And then when they tried to get entangled there, they're like, you know what? We need to go bigger. Let's go into the politics of Oregon. See if we can elect a representative for our commune. And when they did that, they realized oh, there's like... Again, I'm going to be butchering this. I don't know. I don't remember it specifically, but in order

to get it, they started to taint the water with chemicals in it. These people did. Yeah. And people say it was an Osho. They say it was his right hand woman who is considered the evil person. Which one? It's this specific woman i forget i had 10 of them that's how this works man no there's a specific one though there's an actually specific

one the right hand woman i forget her name but she is the one where it's like okay this person looks evil this person looks like she had malintention like she wanted to do something that was not good and she oh show like you know he could have some bad things but for the most part like i said i still think some of his messages are good i'm not by any means a rajneesh cult follower you sound like it i'm but there's some things in there where it's like you know what this kind of rings true like oh i can listen to this and you know i can contemplate on this idea and yeah it kind of makes sense i get it it's a taboo thing to say especially if you go to certain things but even it's crazy how even in

some of the worst stuff certainly not all of it don't take me out of context people but in some of the not so good stuff we'll call it you can find a couple things that it's like okay well we're gonna get rid of all that but that one that one little thing right there maybe all right that has a little bit to it you know what i mean yeah and it's it's almost like an unhealthy thing because we tend to gravitate towards in groups of people especially we tend to gravitate towards all good all bad right we don't look at things as they become mainstreamed across us across thought now on the internet i guess is where we are today but we don't look at things as well here are the pros and the cons you know you are incentivized to give 280 characters of a beat down or a stand-up or whatever it's it's fast so it's interesting to see that you could

have a conversation like that where you know going into it all right this guy said my parents are in we're in a cult and like well it's not really a positive conversation but then learn about it and see like okay well this wasn't quite what's it called like the jones town whatever like that that was some crazy shit like this wasn't quite on that level and this wasn't good but a couple themes might not be the worst thing in the world to take away it's a really mature way of looking at it yeah and the craziest part though is so when they found out about these chemical biochemical whatever they're trying to take the water and trying to poison the people i don't know is it biochemical can i call it that

i think that's a term but yeah yeah, it's like bioweapons. That's always how I knew it, but that stands for something. Yeah, like they're trying to poison the water and they're trying to hurt innocent people. I'm not a biologist. You're not a biologist anymore, apparently. So, you know, we'll cover for ourselves and say it's a biochemical weapon.

That's fine. Yeah, so when they got discovered, you know, the FBI, everyone was trying to go out to get them. Jim DiIorio was out there getting them. I guarantee you. Son of a bitch. I knew he was in Oregon. So then what ends up happening is, you know, Osho, apparently they're going to arrest him.

It's going to be a public arrest. And Osho, in like the middle of the night or something, you know, scoots away, gets on his private jet. And he starts trying to fly to North Carolina or try to fly out of the country. Of of the country. But his private jet, it didn't have enough fuel to leave the country. So what ends up happening is they land in North Carolina and the FBI groups all the communications and all the FBI sectors around the US and are like, go to North Carolina and meet them at the airport. And there's a sequence of videos in the documentary where essentially he's landing in the FBI surrounding them. And when,

oh, sorry, take that back. I made that up. What ends up happening is they actually turn around because they find out that they're actually going to pin them in North Carolina. Cause they hear it. And they overpassed.

They're like, you got, you're going nowhere, like turn around. So they end up turning around, dude. I think I'm butchering the story. I think I might be missing it, but all right, we'll check it later check it but but what was the

bottom line the bottom line i met them somewhere yeah the fbi met them somewhere yeah and they just get arrested and then when when they end up getting arrested he goes to jail and essentially they've been titled the colt ever since and then his right hand woman i think escaped to germany she went to germany oh that's. I need a fact check This has been like interesting here. That's but yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, I feel like I've never heard of this though That's really cool. This is it's a wild one I'm so curious about those men like how people get to that point like people have ever looked at the Jonestown It was Jonestown, right? That's how they said it. It was like the Jonestown massacre or some shit like that i want to say jamestown but i think it's james yeah it might

have been james see i'm forgetting too but like when people look at that the the leader of that whole thing and how he was telling everyone you just have to drink this cyanide or poison or whatever it was and they were out on this island or whatever somewhere like far away and they all died the power to get people there as one person to get people there is a wild wild thing and it happens to be in that case something where it was a limited group of people we're not talking millions of people or anything but i think it was it's definitely in the hundreds i think it may have been in the low thousands too we'll check it but i don't have it sitting up on on wikipedia but either way check out that massacre is nuts it was in like 1977 or 1978 to get that many people

to pick up everything they have and leave and come with you somewhere and be convinced that they're going to achieve happiness here like that's what these cultists sell they sell happiness they sell a better way to get that to happen and then to get these people to believe in you so much that they're willing to kill the only life they're going to have here unless you believe in karma and the whole return thing which maybe i don't know who knows but like to get them to do that that that's an insane level of influence that is hard for me to imagine but i i was talking about this with with amanda levy too where we were talking about nazi germany and how fast that's totally different situation but obviously a horrible horrible situation where we're talking about a cult that was like the entire country not to say some people in germany didn't hate it some people did but a lot of people went with it you know and and it

happened you know hitler's rise was when he went in prison in 1923 or whatever it was he was writing his Mein Kampf book he comes out in two three years later whatever it was and by that first election cycle in 1928 he had like a little bit of pool and then in I believe it was the 1932 election cycle so after the Great Depression happened in the US which affected everyone including germany took them right back down the shitter the power that he had as a strong leader providing hope right or whatever the fuck it was he said or i don't fucking know but that effect is so fast and then the guy was was leading the country as the Fuhrer or whatever they called him by 1934. And so you're talking, call it five, six years just to get to the top of the food chain to get,

I think his party at that point before he became leader had like 40 something percent of that their house or whatever it was like their congress i don't know what it was called but you get there and then from 1934 to 1939 we're talking five years what started with some previous comments they were making during the little rise whatever it was about jewish people as uh it was their fault for world war one which i still think was perhaps the dumbest argument ever created but okay that's that's what he did it started there with just pointing a finger and then from 1934 to 1939 repeated statements over and over again they got worse and worse led to what started as the ghettos where they arrested all them and put them in there like animals. I mean it was subhuman conditions.

They'd kill them like if they looked at them the wrong way, and then within three years of that, two years of that, we're talking concentration camps. So think about how quick that is and how much power the propaganda, which is what it was. He had a minister of propaganda, which is crazy to think about, by the way. That was a real – that was a title. Like our minister of propaganda. It's the stupidest sounding thing of all time, but it was real. And that repetition, boom boom boom boom boom over again all these maybe normal people went with it and like when i had shannon johnson in here we watched the video of right after world war ii when eisenhower made the german citizens

go through the concentration camps oh wow you ever. You ever seen this? Never. It's nuts. I keep telling you people, in a few years, if you still own a regular mattress that doesn't have an 8Sleep Pod Pro cover on it, it is going to be like owning a flip phone in an iPhone world. There is no point to not getting

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Great. I'll roll it in the corner i'm not gonna pull it up right now because i gotta it's it's like a specific thing it takes a while to find it but people who saw that episode 53 they'll remember that it was it was powerful stuff because the concentration camps which had all kinds of death machines in them and they they fed the people nothing it was death was in the air they kill people with left and right for stuff but they had the gas chambers and then they had the crematoriums where they would burn human bodies and the smoke would rise and i mean i've never had to smell that i hope i never ever for as long as i live ever have to smell something like that but the point was there were villages and towns right next to this

the people in them not to say they had any power over the nazi government and stopping everything that was happening but the people in them went about their lives like normal and they there's no way they didn't smell that shit and they didn't know that some crazy stuff was going down there and so when eisenhower found these camps credit to him this was this was a really important thing he took a look and immediately made a judgment where he was like, there will be people who deny that this happened in the future. And we are going to roll cameras and we're going to make damn sure that they have no argument because this is the worst thing I've ever seen. And he goes – he asked his lieutenants and I guess the other sub-generals around him, whatever, how close the towns were. And they were showing him on a map.

And he's like, it's right there. Which way is the wind going right now? And they put two and two together. And then suddenly he was like, get all of them. Go to the towns. Don't hurt anybody. But you tell them you're coming with us. And you see the, I guess, B-rolls of it. I don't know what you call it. you're coming with us and you see the i guess b-rolls of it i

don't know what you call it but the old school videos of it and you see the people being marched on their on their merry way literally like smiling laughing you know regular people with the soldiers and the soldiers are walking i'm just like wait till you see this. And then they get there and they get like, it was, it's almost weird to watch. And again, if you see it in the corner right now, they were literally getting like a, like a live sick, sadistic museum tour of, oh yeah, you see this right here? This is, this is flesh remains. Or this is, these are stolen goods from a jewish person by the way you want to know where they died they died right there and you see all these people i mean at the end of the day not all german people were naturally evil right they just got sucked into this thing

where they were like oh yeah oh yeah the student bed right oh my god oh shit yeah like oh oh yeah no sounds good the fear cool whatever and then now they had to see it it was over right they lost now they have to see it and they couldn't contain themselves it was almost like when you hear about people getting hypnotized which i'd never have had that happen to me i've never had a professional do that. I really wonder what that's like. It's almost like they were wide awake hypnotized and then boom, like snap of a finger. Eisenhower and his people said, you're not hypnotized anymore.

Take a look. That's real. And you see the whole cult come crashing down and that is for me when i look at that and then we think back to things like this like the cult you originally brought up or the massacre jonestown massacre jamestown massacre whichever one it was it's like there is something that exists in all of us regardless of our intelligence level or our background or any of that stuff or even like our natural environments where if we are not actively paying attention to what is happening to us, we cannot tell and we will go with it. it on what i will say is a far less serious scale especially at the moment you never know where this kind of thing could go but if you want to look at it on a far less serious scale but an upsetting one

go look at the left and the right online and remember that these algorithms feed these two extremes exactly what they want every day and all they see is hatred of the opposite end of the spectrum and all they do is reinforce that by talking with the people who they have those beliefs in common with and ripping the people and and calling for even crazy things sometimes of the opposite people who don't obviously completely disagree with them and that's a scary thing when i really start to look at history and wonder where that could possibly go and i'm not saying like you know what i'm saying i'm not saying it's going anywhere like that but you have to at least be aware of it it's the reminders of history like the event like the holocaust it's it's something i recommend everyone goes to Washington to go see the Holocaust Museum,

like that's just traumatic in itself. And it's just like going through it. And you know, I'm like, I'm not Jewish at all. I think I maybe have like point 01. But just going through that and just seeing the burden and the horrible things that took place. It's so humbling. You're just so humbled. You're like, I cannot believe that these people fell into this ideology by this madman who is able to be so charismatic and say, this is the direction we're going to go. We want this race. We want to exterminate these people

because this is superior. This is what we need in the world right now and the common theme that i see with the rajneesh that i see with jamestown or jonestown and nazi is just that there was these people that were in this position of vulnerability where they had been exposed coming out of world war one germany was blamed for everything that this is your fault what happened you're going to be have heavy embargoes you're going to have all these things on you so you're not going to be able to thrive as a country and with the rajneesh cult a lot of the people like we said homeless people have no purpose have no meaning and at the same time you're picking up people too where it's like young i've got boomers probably yeah probably young boomers who at this time you know

it's coming out of the 60s and you know the, the 60s, the hippies, the love where it's like, all right, where do we go? You know, people are trying to find meaning and purpose. So it's like they take these disadvantaged people, I think. And maybe there's some people in there that know what's going on, but maybe they hop on board. But for the most part, I think it's people who are right now in a place where they're vulnerable. Same can be said about people joining Scientology. They bring them on board and they're like, look, you have purpose now. You have meaning. Join us and guess what? Life is going to be good. Like you said, happiness is right here. We got happiness. Come join us. Come join us. And then once they join, you know, it sounds all good.

It looks like it's all good. And then you realize, oh, we're going to start doing this now. We realize these people, these people aren't good. Yeah, we got to get rid of these people because the mission that we have here, it's going to be stopped if they don't get out of the way. And when you hear that, you're like, okay, but guess what? We can maintain this greatness, this happiness. It's going to be here, all right? Just we got to take care of this.

All right, I'll go on board with that. And also them and also this. And before you know it, you're caught up in this whole thing. And like you said, there probably are some very evil people that are part of nazi germany's regime and then yeah but there's probably also some people got caught up into it and i know they did the stanford studies i think it was the milgram studies i'm so glad you brought this up yeah yeah and the milgram studies with the police and the i think it was the people in jail the prisoners yeah and this yeah the Stanford prison experiment God's very unethical today but at the time yeah I

don't know if I can play that I'm away from the mic people sorry but I don't know if I can play this but if I can if there's good b-roll I'll put it in the corner while you're talking but please explain this because this is an amazing experiment yeah and help me expand on it, please. But one of the things about that experiment they found is they wanted to figure out, okay, were these people in Nazi Germany under the regime doing this because they were evil or did they get caught up into some psychological hijack of their ideology? And what ended up happening is they conducted these studies where they grabbed people in the neighborhood. I think they were telling people like, hey, if you sign up for this

Stanford experiment, we're going to pay you this amount of money. And it was like, college student, oh, that sounds amazing. I can use some money. They go to Stanford and it's like, all right, some of you are going to be assigned as robbers. Some of you are, sorry, not robbers, prisoners. And some of you are going to be assigned as policemen. And they had specific roles and they had specific obligations to uphold if you're a policeman it was like you have to be as harsh and as critical as you can on these prisoners you got to make sure that you're making the guards the guards yeah the guards making their life a living hell that in fact you want to make them feel like there's no hope you want to crack them and then for the prisoners it's like you abide, right? I think it was pretty much just like, you're going to be a prisoner.

You have to be a prisoner. You have no rights. You have to listen to what they tell you to do. Exactly. Exactly. And they conducted these studies. Oh, let's check it out. Yeah. We have video. Keep talking. I just have the B-roll playing up there. Oh my God. This was crazy. And what ends up happening is, you know, people go in and, you know, it's so inconspicuous they're thinking oh this is going to be nothing you know this is just going to be some experiment it's going to fall apart and what ends up happening yeah they're getting paid and the guards end up taking these rules very serious very very serious and the prisoners are like all right

you know knock it off whatever and then the experimenter's like no no push on keep pushing like we need to see where this goes and And some of the people cracked like crazy. Like I remember one guy, they were borderline, like they were having a mental breakdown. Like they felt like I'm going nowhere. This is horrible. I'm stuck in a prison. Let me out, let me out, let me out.

And you realize these people that were guards, like as soon as someone took the reins, they're like, you have to do this. Boom, they took full ownership. They took full control over it. And people reins, they're like, you have to do this. Boom. They took full ownership. They took full control over it. And people on that side are like, all right, this is what we do. Let's abide by it. Let's follow this doctrine. Let's follow these rules because this is what we're doing. And before you know it, it's almost like these tribalistic tendencies. Once you join the group, guess what? You're part of the group. You're going to start

acting like the group. It could be from whatever things possible. Like if you're joining like whatever, a carnivore diet, right? Or you could be joining like I'm part of the punksters or the emo people. There's this thing that takes place where is you start to embody that. You start to look up to the people that are doing so-called successful in the group are the leaders, the mentors, and you try to be like them. So they end up being like them. And what ends up happening is you realize one of the most unethical experiments on earth. And that a lot of these people who you can say were in Nazi Germany got caught up into something and they started to follow it. So it proved that, you know, not everyone in Nazi

Germany was evil, which is kind of nice to see. Naturally. they weren't it's not like they were born that way or and i'm i don't i genuinely think like when jufu was in here he raised this point and some people really argued it online other people were like whoa i'm more in the middle where i'm where i'm like whoa but i'm like is it or not but he he said it like i don't think anyone's evil i was like huh and he goes because no one's born evil they had to be framed by an environment that led to things that led them to get there and I'm like first of all because he's like 20. yeah that's an unbelievably mature thing to say holy secondly it doesn't mean he's entirely right but on the surface i i do probably agree that there's no one who's

literally born evil like they do have to have this isn't i don't think this is a word impedi like instead of impetus is it i don't know but they have to have like an impetus yeah that leads them to or multiple impetuses whatever that leads them to get to that point and i could see it becoming an out-of-body experience like we talked about with the cults and it's no different like nazism was was a cult yeah it was just the most unfortunately powerful holy at the top of government cult in modern history and it's unfortunate that it happened from i mean there's no good cult but it's unfortunate it happened from that end of the spectrum where it was like insanity but that's what it was and in this like have you ever seen the interviews after this was done where they sit down the guards and the prisoners?

No, I don't remember. Oh, it's like the people who played the prisoners are mad and they're emotional. Because they were just treated like the worst of the worst for weeks by these other people who are now sitting across from them as equals. And it has something to do with hacking the power inside of you when people are given power there is this thing that corrupts and it is we are i think we are all susceptible to it very few people can avoid it they're still susceptible to it but they can avoid it if they are incredibly self-aware going into it and these people were just offered 15 an hour back in 1971.

So that was a little bit of money to do this for a couple weeks. And they're like, oh, fuck, we're making money. Yeah, they were told what to do. And they're like, we'll do it. But people give actors and actresses shit sometimes for being high maintenance or stuff like that. And they kind of wonder what some of that is to to why they take some of the art so seriously and they act a certain way maybe outside the cameras and stuff but like you know a lot of people had tried to get me to do acting when

i was younger and i was i think you'd kill it i was always i really love movies and all that i was always into it but i was, I want to do other things. But like the few times where I would actually do it, I always like looked into this stuff and how some of the greats did it because it was so moving to see like how they pull it off. And so I studied a lot of method acting and how what goes into that. And there's different models. There's the Strasburg model. there's the Strauss the the Strasberg model there's the Stella Adler model that certainly have some important differences but I think it was Lee Strasberg in his book A Dream of Passion where he talked about it where it's like extreme

and he for context he wasn't in a lot he an acting teacher, but he was when he needed to be. He was a tremendous actor. So he played Hyman Roth in Godfather 2. He got nominated for an Oscar. The guy was an incredible actor. But his method acting, which like Al Pacino was one of his students. He had some greats. He believed in the actor getting in touch with real things that had happened to them in order to then

output the lines and the role that they were doing so in order to become if you were playing some sort of psychopath or something like that even for that type of extreme he would have you tap into the worst emotional harms that had happened to you and so like when people look at a guy like heath ledger who was an unbelievable actor and some people are like damn i guess he just like had a drug problem or like they didn't really buy that the whole thing where he went nuts after playing the joker in the dark night shortly before his death but i'll tell you without being, gun to my head, yeah, that's probably what happened. Because he went full-blown method acting to do that role, and Jack Nicholson, one of the all-time greats who had played the role and played it brilliantly two and a half decades before,

warned him. He warned him ahead of time. He knew how Heath worked, and he was like, you are going to go to a dark place if you do this right and you're gonna do it right because you're heath fucking ledger and you need to be very very it's he said he literally said something like that to him and heath would like he had a he made a diary and everything as if he was the joker and he would live in in wherever he was staying like while they were shooting and before and after and he would be the character i heard something about how he locked himself in a hotel room and how like he practiced all these accents or all these voices and then

like i think one of his friends like claimed to say like one time he came out of the room it was like i want you to hear this and then he gave him the actual joker accent and or voice and was just like holy okay that's that's scary that's very scary i now need to find this video yeah go whatever whatever this was people figured out who he took it from oh really who he took the cadence from because uh you know he had a looser pitch australian voice and yet in the movies like if i could see then i could take you from and like he does this whole like up and down thing and then everyone loses their mind and like goes up and and kind of has like that but i don't like money at all money is not good and you see this whole like it's like it's it's high pitch but then back down and mysterious

and evil and like oh like it's this weird cadence and like the natural like talking cadence he would do where he's like insert a little chaos right there was a comedian i believe or not a comedian he was a he was a musician i forget who it is he's a known guy and there's there is an old interview maybe with johnny carson where you see this guy talk and you're like holy shit it's him right so at some point he happened to this is just like a side point but he matched he must have found this right yeah and he matched he's like wait that guy i think it was is it tom wait maybe tom watts i'll look it up when you're talking next but he matched that guy with the personality of the Joker as like that sound that voice even though this guy's obviously not the Joker he's not like that but like that voice the way he talks about things if you put that on a

really evil sick sadistic whoa whoa like he was that yeah well thought about it he's ledger was amazing that the dark knight trilogy i know we we have our differences of what's the greatest trilogy of all time but i think the dark knight for me christopher nolan is the best of all time it's beyond captivating christopher christian bale put on hell of a performance he doesn't get the credit he deserves and then you have he Heath Ledger for the second one. Tom Hardy as Bane. That entire trilogy. In the movie The Dark Knight,

I don't like to look at Rotten Tomatoes all the time and be like, oh, this is what people like. But on there, it's ranked as one of the best movies. And you see it from the storyline from the beginning to end. Just this idea where he's not your typical villain, right? Like the Joker, your is like trying to steal money or he's trying to you know create some type of weapon or whatever he's just like i just want chaos like he's like i want to disrupt the order of what's going on in life in gotham like you know batman the last criminal like tried to free all the

asylums and create chaos you know i i want to do something where I want to break people. And it's in Batman, and that one is just so great. The best scene is the interrogation where he's sitting across. It's Joker, and then it's Gordon. And then Gordon's like, I'm going to go get a cup of coffee. I'm going to leave right now. And then the lights go on, and bam! Batman hits him on the ground, or hits his head.

Where are they? Where are they? go on and bam the batman hits him on the ground or hits his head hits his head and then where are they where are they that whole interrogation and then the entire time you the end you're gonna have to choose one yeah and then the entire time like at the end right he's just like you have nothing you have nothing right i think you can do and that's so crazy because at that moment you realize damn batman the savior the guy's gonna save gotham it's like he's you look at his face like holy i really don't have anything on this guy like i can't get anything out of him he's just gonna laugh every time i punch him like this is not gonna work like oh now he has something on me great this makes things even better like to

me that's one of the most psychotic and also just the scariest villains. Because you realize there's just chaos. He doesn't care what else happens. Like, if he dies, he's going to laugh dying. It's like, there's nothing you can do to this villain. And it's just at that point, like, okay, what do I do? And it's a great symbol. Even though he's like a fake thing it's you see that they're when someone has nothing to lose and they get a warp sense of things around them holy are they dangerous it's it

it's relatable i'm not saying people become the joker because again it's not it's a superhero character like villain right That's not a real thing, but there are microcosms or symbols that match the Joker. But I found the video. Let's see it. This is Tom Waits. He's a musician. I have a growing level of popularity. Oh, Jesus Christ.

Throughout the intercontinental United States, Japan, and I travel extensively in Europe as well. He licks, see that? I don't do that. It's spot on. They tell me you have a new market now in Ireland, is that true? I've performed in Dublin and done very well there as well. You look like a leprechaun, you should do well there. Well, I, uh...

I'm also big in Philadelphia. Dude, he looks like he's on drugs. He probably was. I feel like I'm at my grandmother's. Look at the hand. Did you see that? It's like... I don't know if we can play any of that so i don't want to put that i don't want to put on the dark night because now it's going into

the dark night that was an old interview you can play but there's a tiktok where it's like so creepy where you literally see it like holy shit that's him like when he first comes on stage in that interview maybe I can pull up because I saw that this had like a like a longer one let me see if it's there real quick but you see him come on and like the way he walks and carries himself and it's like oh that's right yeah here it is. 1979. Wait, that's his song. I gotta skip that Now so I wouldn't have to say it later to me. He is a mixed mixture of Satchmo Armstrong and Humphrey Bogart when he sings

Look at the style Kind of lit not gonna lie How are you, Tom? Oh, I'm better than nothing. Yeah? Got an ashtray there? Um, we don't have... Can we have an ashtray? Got an ashtray around?

Is there an ashtray? Wait, I'll tell you what. In the meantime, here. You can use this, uh, glass, all right? Just get it in there. How, uh... Hang on. Are you all right?

Yeah, it's just fine. I just want to check it to you settle down I get comfortable here. Okay How long nice shot He's out of his mind he's trying out on something story might we all miss once in a while How is how long have you been here in Australia now? I got here last night He's trying out on something. What do you do for 22 hours on the flight? Do you have ways of entertaining yourself? Well, they show movies that are not a big success anywhere else. They put them on the planes. You want these? This is what you're looking for?

Thank you. I would do that for you. It's a part of the host that's supposed to light the guest cigarette and stuff. I'd do that. But you look like a man that can handle that all by yourself. Yeah. We got an ashtray yet? It's all right.

Yeah. You put the burnt match in it. Oh, he's sweating his balls off. How long have you been... How long have you been singing? Pardon me? I said, how long... Look at him moving in, like, everything. I'll get right here with you.

I'm all right. It's so intriguing. I ain't going nowhere. I'm going to get right here with you. I'm all right. It's so intriguing. I ain't going nowhere. I'm going to do this interview with him. That's it. Thank you. There you go. I think he's on heroin.

People work euphoria on everything. That's right. Where's the dragon? It never fails, Tom. You can ask for anything you want on this show, and we'll have someone go out and get it for you. Christ. If people want to

watch it's called tom waits australia interview 1979 part one but it is like you know he was sitting in there studying that and then matching it up yeah and it's it look that power and that's people who know they're a professional they're going into it they know what they're dealing with they've done this before they know what it's like to go there but you hear guys talk about this and you know they're doing it for a job that pays millions of dollars to get the odd out or however the fuck they put it and they make these great things that we watch but they can walk in voluntarily and still be seduced into this malaise of whatever it is and it can lead to awful things and for heath it obviously led to the worst thing you know nothing's no role is worth you

losing your mind and turning to some interesting things to get you to sleep that then leads you to tragically die it's like a crazy thing but you see stuff like that and then you look at Colts and and I like where this went but the human psyche is fallible even with that self-awareness but you'd have to have a significant amount of it to avoid the pitfalls of what groupthink and a repeated ideology can do to change your viewpoint on the world. Like current day, the thing that comes to mind immediately is cancel culture. I think immediately that seems very cultish,

the way it's behaving, the way it's operating. Like example being like Dave Chappelle. As soon as that special came out and like for the most part, most of the comedians know this, like the people who are commenting didn't even watch really the special. They saw the snips of it being like, oh, he said this about transgender, said this about this group or that group or whatever. And no one heard the part about he was friends with this transgender,

spoiler alert, and this person died. That he knew it was because that she was getting so much hate from her own community. And it was like no one even heard that part but the cancel culture what they did they piggybacked on they heard like he said something bad about transgender he's done it before let's get him this time we're gonna get him and guess what once he apologizes boom he's done dave chappelle is over we are good to go another one off the list right it's like no one cares to actually see like what's going on. And it's like these people that are going on Twitter

or who are going on these social medias, making these comments. I know they're not you or I. Like I can't really imagine who they are, but I'm guessing they're not people who are happy with themselves. I can't imagine that there are people who find joy out of saying things like that,

because they feel like, again, it's virtue signaling that they're going with the group. Like, did you give a second to think about what you're going to say? Did you give yourself a second to think about like, what's actually happening? You're just hopping on board with what the group is saying, the group message. Like to me, it's like, again, this cancel culture, like it's maybe hijacking, maybe it's taking advantage of these people or easily influencing these people where it's like, hey, people are saying this, you should post something about that.

Right. Because if you don't post it, it's like when everyone did that, I totally blinked right there, but someone, they did some posts where it was like a universal post, everyone has to post it, right? And it's like, if you didn't post it,

we know who you are now. Yeah. And I remember one of my old friends from high school they posted something about the dave chappelle thing and they said like if you don't repost this that means i saw you saw the story that means that i know what side you're on and it was like you know what can you open the store and you're just like you see it immediately and it's like it says that it's like you better repost this if not that means you're a bigot or whatever and you're just like fuck out of here yeah and i'm just like are you kidding me like no like go do the research if they said something wrong like okay it's wrong but you

don't have to put everything that's private public like when did that become a necessity to be like your opinions of this thing or whatever it is you have to be public about it it's like everyone now with cancel culture you have to be public of what. And it's like everyone now with cancel culture, you have to be public of what you think about this. If you're not public, you don't tell the world what you think. Guess what? That means you're on the other side.

You are an enemy. You are part of the group that's destroying democracy, destroying freedom of speech, destroying these people's lives. And to me, I think of me like that is crazy. And that's for me why I think cancel culture has this cultish feel to it where it's like oh it's so cultish yeah it's not natural at all to go at other people who disagree with you and seek to banish them

but once it starts to become slightly acceptable at any sort of small group level and it is not immediately pushed back upon by a significant portion of the population, it slowly becomes natural. And we're far past the point now where it is natural for at least a segment of – a large segment of society. It's not 60 percent, but it is an active call it 20 to 30 percent with 40 to 50 percent of silence behind it. And that's not really fair to the 40 to 50 percent of silence behind it crowd because it implies that all of them are just letting it happen. But some of them very much see what's going on and don't speak up when it comes a dialogue on things because you're afraid of what will happen, that tends to tell me we have jumped a very dangerous shark here. And it's been a while. I mean this wasn't yesterday. This has been occurring. you actually nailed it maybe 20 30 minutes ago talking i don't remember what it was in the

context of this larger conversation but on this general subject matter where you said i had to do something with the cults people are looking for meaning and purpose that is what has changed i know what it was you were talking about the nazi germany rise and how when they lost all their money and were given all these archaic rules by the international commissions so to speak after world war one they had no chance and even when they started to come back then the great depression happened boom right back down they're burning their deutsch marks for fire there's desperation so what happens employment is through the floor people that are employed are making no

money the money they have in the country is worth nothing they are poor in the eyes of the world okay there's not the internet back then so they can't totally see what everyone else is doing to compare themselves but they're not happy everything's gray then there's not excitement there's no there's no hope for winning it's just a loss all around them. Not to say that that wasn't happening at the same time in America. It was. But what is the vacuum that sucks up everything in that moment? And if it's the wrong person or the wrong movement, group of people, you're done. And that's what happened there. And today, what I worry about is, in a lot of ways, especially since 08-09, we have had, but really, you date it back to the 80s, but especially since 08-09, we have had a significant portion of this country – what started as a significant portion has grown to an astronomical portion of this country and other places around the world. But let's focus on here, lose their meaning and purpose in life. grabbing their team because they think if their team wins they will feel some sense of accomplishment even though that is not what happens especially when you're supporting one of these two ideologies that are increasingly extremist routes apart from each other and look people lost their money that's where it started that is that is the root cause in 0809

there were things before that 9-11 really started this whole process and how the world changed after that, certainly. But when the economy was good, it was fake, but it was good in 04-05-06. Things were booming. The internet was coming in. We were about to get to Web 2.0 like things were moving and then boom it all comes crashing down and main street everybody is hit but the people who comprise the middle class died the wealth gap went boom like that and i always talk about this and it always finds a way to come back in this has been on at least like 15 podcasts before but those two movements you saw initially rise occupy wall street and the tea party they were two opposite ends you had your urban leftward individuals in occupy and you had your rural rightward individuals in the tea party they convinced themselves that they hated each other and that each was a moron just because they were of a different demographic usually in different geographic location and so their solutions

were opposite ish mostly their problems were the exact same and what was happening was all these people had been left behind they had no hope they were saddled with debt they had no money many of them plenty of them had shitty jobs or no jobs and they needed an abyss to shout into and they found the abyss in a political movement where a bunch of people showed up who were just like them and that's all we as far as complaints go that's all we want to find and then we get into these groups they got into these groups and that raged. They can sit there and say, oh, it's a positive movement for positive change. All they want. And I believe that a lot of people wanted to believe that. And they went there believing that.

But that is not what happened. That is not what happened when these people got together. What they were doing is if you were Occupy, you were standing outside streets in New York City blaming everyone in the buildings and saying you all are full of shit. I hope you die. Or if you are the Tea Party, you're sitting there saying barack obama's the second coming of the devil he's ended our country even though the guy inherited the whole fucking thing from george bush right that is that is what this was both ideas were awful like even if there were even if i took both of their sides and said there's an element of truth in both a small

element they were still insane ideas. The people that occupy Wall Street was looking up in those buildings. Plenty of those people are very good at their jobs and are doing their best, right, and actually have talent at whatever it is they do. But they are cogs on a machine. And those cogs on the machine, when put all together, be it in New York or D.C., bad things can happen in the sense that other people can get left behind. And so what started as these two distinct little culty movements of politics finding their meaning and purpose behind those little movements transformed as we got into the 2010s and social media got wider and more powerful and communities could form and more instantaneous communication could come and then the mobile age started the iphone went in everyone's hand it got it was like a burning fire and that ball of fire turned into donald trump and bernie

sanders and then that whole race happened that whole whatever and then you had the president in office tweeting from his office and he was he was talking to a segment of people who had no other thing to worry about other than what the fucking president was saying and i will say this till the day i die that unless things get insane where you have people starting to say things like you know a hitler or something like that would do and taking actions to lead to something like that. If you are waking up every day and your number one problem is the person that sits in the Oval Office, you are one of those people who has lost complete awe, meaning, and hope in life. Period. And that's where we're at.

It's tricky. I think it's tricky in the sense that those people, you know, were, again, I think they're trying to find meaning. I think they're trying to find some way to grasp onto something where they can feel utilized, they can feel connection, or they can feel they're needed in this necessity. You know, I think it comes down to the foundation. We are social creatures.

Human connection is one of the pillars of what we need in our life. You know, no matter if you're an introvert, extrovert, you need some sort of social connection with someone where it's like, I love you. You know, I take care of you. You know, you have my loyalty, whatever, all those good things that we want. And these groups, and we spoke about this off air earlier about like, the alt-right, like we'll talk about QAnon

or Antifa, you know, a lot of these guys are just like misfits or people that just don't have a place in society. What do they do? They find these Twitter groups. They find these groups of people where it's like, hey, come join us and be part of the cause. This is the cause. We're going in the right direction, right? We're going to head to where the promised land is or whatever it is.

And it's like, you come join us. We're going to go, whatever, do these things where we're going to hit cops, beat up cops, or we're going to say that Q says that there's pedophiles in the Oval Office, that they believe in satanic worshiping, whatever crazy thing it is. But guess what? It really doesn't matter what it is. It's just that we're a community here and we can bring you in and guess what? You're part of it. And we can lie to you and say that we care about you and we want the best for you. Or in fact, they don't care who's ever operating those groups at the top. You know, they're just like, oh, we want the best for you. Or in fact, they don't care who's ever operating those groups at the

top, you know, they're just like, Oh, perfect. We got more people, great, more people will be thrown into jail. And guess what, when they get thrown in jail, they're gonna find out that, yeah, we not really there for you, you know, like, we could care less, like, we just want more people for the cause. And it's sad, because, you know, again, these people are at a disadvantage, because the they don't have anyone, because the cause and it's sad because you know again these people are at a disadvantage because the they don't have anyone because they're isolated they yes they're alone and it's like i feel bad i want to be able to do something where i can like you know be like hey connect

with this person or connect with that person i don't i'm not quite sure why this happened more and more but a theory of mine this speculation, but I think it has to do something with the idea where we're becoming more and more less social creatures, and how this is connected to, we're going into the metaverse, you know, to me, this, I'm going to jump and I'll come back. It's terrifying the idea how you can live your life into this idea of the metaverse, and the metaverse, where you can have your avatar. You can be the person you always want to be. Oh, you're overweight. Oh, you don't have friends. Guess what? You can be that guy in the metaverse and you can create that avatar. You can get all

the attributes. You can have the house in Malibu. You can have the private jet and that's your whole life. And you're in that world. And guess what? You can move up into the other world and the next world and the next world. And you're buying all these things. Like a video game. It's like a video game. Exactly. Put on the Oculus and guess what? You're there.

That's all you need. And it's like, that's promoting the idea of isolation. That's promoting the idea of removing yourself from society. And you know what that else is doing? That's making it so you don't have to deal with the uncomfortableness of culture and society. Of like, oh, I feel really insecure right now. That's part of life. Oh, I have to go to class. I have to give a speech. I don't feel comfortable doing that. That's part of life. There's a girl I like. I want to ask them out. That's part of life. You know, all those uncomfortableness,

you know, that makes you a better person. That hardens you, you know, having to go through those moments of suffering. When I get Buddhist, life is full of suffering, right? Like you're going to have to go through it at some point, you know, whether you believe that or not, like life for the most part is suffering. And it's important that you go through that because you become a better individual. You evolve, you grow. That suffering, it's temporary, you know, because you come out of it and you have a new perspective and you keep evolving to that, whatever final form is reaching that deeper truth. And to me, it's beautiful.

It sucks. You know, when you go through those hardships, when you go through a breakup or whatever it is, you know, like you want to cry, you feel disheveled. You feel like life is imploding on you. But for the most part, time, like as cliche as most of those things are, it's like time heals, you know, as you get in action, time and action. Yes. Thank you for correcting on that. I like that. It's important. Yeah. Take it, making sure that you don't just sit in it, you soak in it, but you actually, you do something about it and you move forward and you learn from that and that you become that complete individual that you always desired. And going back to now, the Antifa, going back to the QAnon, it's like in the metaverse, it's like, it's almost, you're

avoiding that, you know, it's almost like we don't have that anymore. And I feel sorry for those people. It's like, I want to create communities for you. Like maybe go to a gym, maybe sign up CrossFit gym or whatever it is where you can find a community of people where you can have this common interest. But it's almost like the common interest now is saying things that are outlandish or doing things of crime and harm because that's what we can agree upon. It's like, how did we get this far, man? How come you can't find something that's for the good of society that's going to help you become a better person?

I know that was a bit mumbled, but the sense of being... No, it's very well said. It's sad to me when I think about it because there's a lot of people like that. All these people, especially the ones who live completely on whatever the extremes are

on different sides of the aisle or even in things that aren't that. They're just weird extremes of world views or whatever it is all of them want to believe in something i'll say like straight up all of them want to believe in something it's not most of them i am using the 100 percent want to believe in something and then a lot of them obviously do but they don't there there was a line and i'm sure someone said it before but don draper said it in mad men and i think about baby all the time where he said people scream out trying to tell you exactly who they are but we refuse to listen because we want them to be who we want them to be

and this is a human flaw that many of us most of us have inherently because we don't even the people who are very very negative at core, we don't want to believe that someone isn't how we see them right away or how we wish they were or imagine they could be. But we will mentally clog out the signs that are showing us that and then go down a path where we we try to make them mold them into being that thing unknowingly and then they don't become it and like for people out there in relationships i'm probably speaking directly to you that is the most unbelievable example and and that doesn't by the way this does not have to be a negative either it's because like there's certain compatibility in that case where it doesn't fit but you want it to fit maybe she's got unbelievable tits and you're like god damn

i really love that yeah you know what it's gonna work no no if you do that if you guys don't speak the same important languages it's not gonna but you force it because it's like i really love those tits yeah that's that's box. I don't know. And then suddenly, boom, here you are. Maybe you're actually married and you're three years in, five years in, and you're like, oh, shit. It's not them. It's not me. It's us.

This is not it. You know? You look at friendships. Lesser seriousness, I guess, in that way. But shit, same thing like you want to be around someone because they have x to offer or they have something that you want i mean it's gonna happen in business all the time you'll want to believe this guy that you go to do i've made this mistake so many times you want to believe that this guy is going to do this thing and this is who he is and then even

sometimes when you put tests into place like after you've been scarred on the battlefield i can speak to this one too people will pass the tests and you're thinking to yourself oh my god yeah this one's gonna be good and then off a cliff right those are harder to spot i'll admit like that just kind of happens but you can get to a point where you're like, no, this is what it is. This is who they are. Yeah. And then they're not. And that leads to a lack of trust. It leads to self-hatred or annoyance, at the very least, of yourself. It leads to you then prejudging people in the future,

either going hard off the deep end of trying to force people to be who they want to be even more or the opposite of I trust no one, neither of which is a good idea and it fucks with you it fucks with you so so hard you know it it's it's in everything and i try to be really self-aware of that i know for a fact i still fail at it sometimes i find that in here it's harder to fail at it there are people i've been fortunate you know i haven't had anyone bad in here but there are people who may have said something at some point that i find out later yeah i don't know about that you know and i don't doesn't make them a bad person but it's like when i was in here there were enough other things said that they back up that it's like oh yeah no that was real so

you feel like all of it could be but there's still shit i could pick apart from you or you should pick apart from me they're like well maybe that's an insecurity there or maybe that's maybe maybe julian's not actually good at that maybe he needs – maybe that's like a thing that he is really bad at and is like trying to work on it but is not putting that vibe out there. I'm sure there has to be something in here that like I think that. But I also think I'm bad at a lot of things. Maybe there's some things that I think I'm bad at that in the back of my mind I might be good at. It could work every which way. Like psychology is a weird thing and I'm not and you're not

It is not above us. We're all susceptible to it So with these groups that we brought up this whole thing like these people who form into these communities and join them you know, like I think about the QAnon people and I specifically think about the people who led that Community whatever the the it was yeah you know I couldn't get through that docu-series it's phenomenal I will say it's phenomenal but it's like I have to go finish it it's just the one that came out this year it's like or 2021. it is really tough to watch these people who have a documentary person in there taking video of them they're being shown

that they're in the truman show like this guy is not really hiding it like this isn't some insane and they believe it even more and like it's easy to look at the leaders of it the ones who created the channels and be like oh they're all just straight up grifters which they are by the way but like fully, that was the intention. Probably not. Like they're straight-up grifters, but it probably didn't start as an intention for most of them. Some of them, maybe it did, but they probably actually believed a couple elements, and then they saw also the ability to be a leader and take some power and profit, make some money in a time where they're not making money.

Maybe they hate their job or they don't have one, where then they start saying, oh, yeah, you know what? I'll make that channel right there. I'll do that on YouTube. I'll call it QTube or whatever, and then people are going to watch it. And then suddenly they make a video and they get a lot of comments and a lot of, oh, my God my God yes you're speaking the truth there brother that makes sense bro exactly and then they start they start reading

more and what starts is them recognizing that oh that's definitely fake like as they're going through things talking points leads to them eventually being like instead of reading for it like oh that's fake they read for it like oh that's that's juicy and then they say it themselves and then they actually this is why i think they actually believe it i think some of those people really did believe the things that maybe not all of it but they believed a lot of what they were saying that's wild it's it's incredibly wild and i like the point you're making about just to the deeper level of the the relationships of just like with friends and just whatever a significant other were. You know, the idea of being pragmatic in a relationship and understanding if it's logical with these groups being like, all right, does this make sense?

You know, if you get caught up in a relationship, it's incredibly emotional beginning. You know, you're on the drug of love and you're just like, oh my God, this is amazing. Let's see where we can take this. This is awesome. But then you might realize, well, she likes to go for six hour walks and I like to go hang with the guys all day. That's kind of weird. Like, why don't we want to spend time with each other?

You start seeing these little differences over time where it's like, yeah, we're having fun in the bed, but guess what? That's all we do. We don't spend time asking each other what's going on in our lives. We don't care about how we feel. We don't care about where we want to go or what we want to do together. And it's like those moments are where you have to realize, all right, like, yeah, you're on the drug of love. But you have to understand, like, logically, is this going to make sense?

And I know people who do a fantastic job when they're in a relationship being like where's this going to go does this make sense right now in my life to be talking with the other person about it they're they're with themselves first and then they talk to them so they'll have this thought being like is this going to go anywhere is am i going to be able to see this relationship go like very pragmatic people be like all right i'm a junior year in college all right i'm going to graduate a year and a half all right i'm going to be in a relationship but somewhere i'm going to be here. And they're like, no, this is not going to work. Okay. I got to be frank with them. And they tell them. And like, I'm the type of guy where I go on board and we're like, all right, we're on this

experience. Let's go for it. Let's jump on board. Let's live in the present moment, man. Like, come on, let's see where this goes. And then like not being pragmatic, it ends up hurting myself. And I know other people were hurt some. And it's like, you have to have that fine line of knowing like, you have to introduce the logic with the emotion, you ought to be able to have Yes, you can be in love, but also understand like, maybe the best thing for them to honor them is by saying, you know, right now is not the best time for us. You know, maybe we have some things in common, maybe that we don't, but let's see, let's let each other grow. Let's let each other go in these directions right now and if it's meant to be we'll come back if it's not it's not and we can be friends but you know that's so much easier said

than done right yeah i was gonna say i can learn from you man because i'm so fucking bad at that no no i'm horrible i'm just speaking off of my experience where it's like i failed i failed so many times of this and it's like I'm trying to get better. But, you know, when you're in the moment, it's like you're in the clouds, man. You're just riding a wave. You're on the whatever the bird just waffling through. Just whoo. You feel like you're like, especially if you have to have that conversation, which relationships

or like the start of any not even a relationship, like the start of anything like that is the that's like the most important thing you have to do because you're gonna fail at most of them until you get the marriage and i've lost the most things in my life i'll probably lose a marriage once too but you know whatever you know we'll we'll figure that out when we get there but like you get to a point where early on like you got to start thinking like that and if you're especially if you're someone like me in i would say almost every situation including where i handled it completely wrong trying not to but then you know handled it wrong and was i would call a dick like i have such a low barrier for wanting to hurt a girl's feelings like like the bear it's a disgustingly low barrier

that like i feel like anything i'm gonna say it's like oh shit like fuck it's like even if i don't like them like that like i like them like they're not they're a nice person you know and i really have never in that situation i can't think of ever being like wow this girl sucks like she's mean she's not like i've never had that knock on wood right so i'm always like then i'll deal with it by like i yeah i guess just don't she'll go away she'll go away and then they that's the raw that is so wrong like if you're ever listening and i did that to you i apologize i was wrong i'm sorry but like you know that's not you get into the situation you're like ah and then you hand you end up handling it worse that's worse whereas if you're direct

they may hate you in the moment but like eventually they'll be like you know what i didn't like him either he yeah it wasn't gonna work preach julian dory preach man oh but i gotta preach to myself bro no it's the same way i've done that mistake many times and whoever's out there hearing this you know they're not listening let it yeah i know hopefully not jesus but later it gets the point where it's so bad where they will just leave you know i've done that before because you know the moment the thinking about having to like i have to end this whatever relationship or friendship, it's like that it feels too much for you. Or it's like, I don't want to deal with that pain immediately. But you realize if you don't nip it in the butt immediately, guess what?

It's going to just prolong. The resentment is going to grow, grow, grow. And then finally, when it gets to that point where they're like, you know, I can't take it anymore. Yeah. You might be like, yes, they're out of it. of it thank god you know but you just created someone who is an enemy now you are not an enemy but someone who has a great disdain for you rather than honoring them in the moment being like hey like i'm not feeling this thing you know i'm not i don't think we're driving anymore i think it's best to go separate directions you know they're gonna in the moment they're gonna be like i hate you you know it's gonna be emotional it's gonna be intense but when they look back 10 15 years they're going to be like wow that was really like

honorable what that person did like you can respect them you might have to like them be like i respect they were honest and transparent from the get-go when that happened yeah and there's people who treat it like a computer equation that's not right you know you can't you can't be up there like well according to my calculations calculations, like literally, there's some psychos out there who are like, we're not compatible. Like shut the fuck up. But you have to – there's like a tact, but you don't – you feel like you're saying it like that. You feel like according to my calculations, this is what's happening. And it's not, but it may – how are they going to hear it?

Just like you want people to be who you want them to be. Guess what? That's every – that's be who you want them to be. Guess what? That's every, that's not just you. That's other people too. So they're sitting there like, oh, in this case, I hope this guy was going to be great. And now he sucks. And we're all going to text about him later and say, fuck him. And now I hate him.

And it's like, ah, come on. You can still, we can be cool. No, no, no. And you can even be more loony where you start fantasizing about him as, like, this person. You know, like, you start creating the idea of, like, they're this individual. You know, they're Marilyn Monroe right over there. You know, that's who they are. Yeah, they embody that.

Don't call her Marilyn. She's great. In a great way. I love you, Marilyn. But in the way where you start creating this characterism, you know, where it's like, this is who they are. And, you know, they might mess up or they might fall out of line many, many times, but you keep thinking, no, no, no, you're this person. I know you are.

And you're going to, you're going to be this person. And over time, like I said, you're just, you're going to build so much disdain and you're going to have this like hatred towards this person because you can't even realize you can't think through your skull that like this person isn't who you thought they were and that's fine that's fine that's who they are and you got to let them be who they are you can't make them change and you told me this earlier so i'm not going to take credit for it but it's like after that's over you're not going to change for that person because all of a sudden you didn't they didn't like you for who you were you got to be who you are.

Yeah, I like how you said that. But obviously, if there's bad things you're doing, where it's like you're being lying, you're manipulative, you change those things. But if it's basic things where it's like, oh, I'm very kind, but they don't like when I'm super kind or whatever, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, it's like still be that. That's who you are.

Don't all of a sudden change because that person left you and is looking for something else. It's like there's going to be someone and i think i read this time magazine it was about marriage i don't know why i read it but i was just like oh this is interesting let me read it said marriage and it said if you're looking to search the web privately and not have every single website track you when you leave check out my friends over at privato vpn privato is one of the vpn platforms that actually makes sure you don't lose any speed while you're actively using the VPN. And furthermore, you can use it on up to 10 different devices at a time.

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So check it out. For each person, there's around 10,000 people who you're compatible with. That's the study. We can go check that. Will Chamberlain would disagree. Oh, yeah. What a player. Yeah, you can say that.

I need a lot more than 10 000 but 10 000 people you're compatible with and it's like you know end of the day it's like yeah you might find someone that you're just as compatible with as the person you're with but you guys have to make that covenant and just be like you know what we're gonna decide that yes we could each find someone else who's also as compatible we're're going to decide, we're going to be true to each other. And this shit isn't going to take work. It's going to take a lot of work, but we're willing to go through it

and we're going to make this thing last. And yeah, we're going to get over that honeymoon phase where we're all high and it's going to be, oh my God, sometimes we're going to have to resent each other. But that's how relationships are. End of the day, it's not sunshine and rainbows right it's going to be tough moments and it's people don't see that especially like i feel like my age i still don't see that like i can say this right now tomorrow i might find a girl i'm like holy let's

get together let's make this thing happen and i might make that mistake but i think when it comes down to it you just got to work at it like you know they always say it and i hate saying it because i thought all these cliches were so dumb but it's like you know cliches hold up for a reason because it's this common sentiment that ends up being true for so many people it they they are and there's a reason they started the cliche because they were said so much i mean it means they can get overused but it doesn't mean that they're not completely rooted in some sort of truth maybe that's not i'm sure i could find somewhere i'm like well that's bullshit now but a lot of them it's like the most of them the vast majority have strong elements of truth that if you

think about in your life human nature says we all fail at some point or another even the best of us at certain things but the weird thing is that you can't you can be very aware of something or become very aware of something and continue to make that mistake for a long time maybe forever and i'm sure i could find things that like yeah i'm like i'm probably not gonna fix that but you know i do think there's hope to changing habits on interpersonal relationships and stuff. Like I definitely – there's some things that I did for years that were like the same – wait, why did you do that again? Are you fucking kidding me? Oh, goddammit.

Where now it's like maybe I just change as a person but like I don't do those. So it gives me hope like, well, I keep making that mistake. Maybe eventually I'll get rid of that too. I don't know. Or you don't. you know you try to plug all the most glaring holes that are you can recognize and be like well that's not good you know i shouldn't slam doors on people's faces that's not a good idea you know like it can be something that's stupid but you know what i mean like or it can be something way more minute that you're like wait a second holy shit i've never done in a different way maybe that's what did it you know like people can get it takes the extreme situation sometimes to really like oh there it is have the eureka moment and it sucks while it's happening but you'll learn to appreciate it i find later and that's

with everything like you talked about friendships with ending friendships i feel like sometimes with friendships depending on how close and how long it is, that is one thing where it's kind of like if you just kind of grow apart and it's an unspoken thing and it's clear, I'm cool with the ghost there on both ends. Cool with it. Like we know what happened. If both people were wrong, that's even better. Like, okay, that happened. It sucks when one person's wrong, especially if it's you, you know, and you're like, oh, shit, there's no fixing that. But it sucks all around.

But you can kind of let it go because you're not fucking each other. You know, it's just real. Like, that's a real thing. But, like, when it's, like, if it's, like, a really long-term friendship, like lifelong or many many years then it definitely sucks and stings more but if it's a relationship then yeah you can't handle it like that it's strange to me it's strange to me sorry to interrupt no i was done it's strange to me just how like as soon as sex is introduced into any type of friendship yeah well i'm thinking more guy girl for my case hey for everyone out there too obviously girl on girl-on-girl, guy-on-guy.

Exactly. I want to represent everyone in here. Exactly. You're speaking from your experience, I understand. Exactly. That case, to me, it's just like it changes the whole dynamic immediately. You could be friends with this person, let's say, for years, and as soon as you introduce that act, the next day it's like,

all right, we're now in this club, you know. We're in this club now. And like, what does this mean now? You know, you could be like, okay, we're just friends or we can continue this or whatever we want to do. But, you know, that for the rest of your life, it will change your relationship. And like, it could be for the better or the worse, you know, for the most part. It's like, it's such an intimate action. It's such an intimate, you know, exchange that it's like, you know, you realize like once that's over,

they'll do that intimate action probably with someone else. So to have a type of relation with that person is incredibly difficult because that level of intimacy that you had with them is essentially gone and it's being done with someone else and to me like psychology it's like you know a part of me really really wants to become friends with them wants to like you know i love them to death or whatever the case is but it's incredibly hard because the dynamic will just never be the same no it's not impossible clearly there are some very rare souls who pull it off but for me i is as close to impossible as it gets and for many people it is as close to impossible it's just a real thing and it's territorial on both ends it's not just like guy territorial girls

girl territory it is it is a real thing on both ends and you know it sucks like the only time i ever gave in on that and said well we'll take it for a spin after she was putting out like the you know long-term friendship once more man did i get burnt and i i will say it's that is one thing i'm good at and it sucks to be good at it but if i meet you as a friend you you could be the hottest, greatest, sweetest girl on planet Earth. It's never going to go past that. I don't have – like once I meet you and my mind goes, friend, done, done. You could literally – you could give me every fantasy in the world no shot starts twerking on you it will not happen because the one time i ever actually and i was always like

that and then one girl kind of just it took a long time and she broke through and it was a disaster and i was like never again and when i never again, I mean never motherfucking again. And so like anytime that's happened where it's like, oh, no, I met you as a friend, doesn't matter. I don't care what you got going on. It is not you. It is me. A hundred percent. It sucks because then like once they put out that signal, good luck being friends after that.

Dude, isn't it strange the concept of just like ending something where it's like you've known this person for so long. You've been very intimate, like essentially your best friends, right? And then once that sentence is said where it's like this is over, boom, the next day you're strangers. Like to me, I've never been able to grasp that idea where it's like, okay, we've had all these experiences. We've had all these, like, moments. And now it's like, because this has now been stated and this is what we now agree on, the next day, yeah, you can be friends or whatever you want to say.

But boom, it's almost like you're strangers. Like, you don't, it's, to me, it's one human characteristic that I don't understand that we've agreed upon or, you know, like I know internally it's very hard. Like you said, like almost impossible, but it's,

it sucks. It's like, man, you wish that there could be some sort of friendship that can be recovered, but it's like, usually ends up becoming where it's estranged immediately. Once it's out there, it's done, man. I mean, it's only – dude, there's only one I can think of where that –

and you know what? It didn't get blurred. I was going to say where the line got blurred, it didn't. It was strictly you're here, I'm'm here let's get out of here it was one time and like it was cool cause she's cool as shit but like any one of those other

situations nope dead and fuck if I know how to hang I'm probably bad at it I'm sure I am but like I don't I don't know cause I also I have been in a few situations. I have put that out there ahead of time and said like, I see what's happening.

I have a pretty good signal. I want to say this. It is not you. It is me. It's the context. And it never works i can think of probably five to seven different times i'd have to like make a list of names but yeah where i have been ahead of the game on that didn't matter and like by the way they're not bad people not their fault

at all like the heart wants what it wants but it's like oh i met you like that especially especially like if you had anything going on with someone in like a friend group and then it's one of the other it's like oh man yeah no you're great you might even be hot as fuck like wow i'm not thinking about you with clothes on right now but it it's just not, you know, little Julian might be saying something, but it ain't happening. You know what I mean? Like, it's not, it's a, I don't, I don't understand it. I really, I have no idea what it is, but like, maybe it's, it's just like a built in rooted

primal thing that we have. Cause I know a lot of people who are like that. Maybe they actually do act on it sometimes and i happen to not do that but it does it just the complication once it's there it's i i've never i mean if you have a good way to fix it tell me i don't have any i don't have any solution you know i think when it comes down to just the relationships of that, I think you just get past it and you just got to move forward. Again, I just start thinking of these societal constraints we've created where it's like you're going to get married to someone.

That's what happens. You create life, and then boom, it keeps happening again and again and again. This is what we abide by. As you're finding more and more, more people are not wanting to get married. More people are now deciding like, you know what, I don't know if I want to have kids. It seems like the generation is now shifting because maybe they recognize the pain.

I don't know. Maybe they recognize the complications. I don't know what it is, but it seems like we're moving in a direction where it's like, you know what, I don't know what it is, but it's just, it seems like we're moving in a direction where it's like, you know what? I don't know if I want to put myself in a place where I could get hurt. You know, like I think I don't want to do that to myself. You know, like I'm safe in this sphere right here myself.

You know, I can keep myself here. I can go down to the bar with the boys and then come back and like, you know, maybe there's a lady there I'll meet that night and who knows what happens, but you know, I'm safe in this area. And again, it connects back to the metaverse. It connects back to all these groups where you're joining, where it's like, you know, the idea of discomfort we're moving away from, we want to be comfortable and comfort. But we hate it. We hate it end of the day. Yeah. But it's like, we, we want to do it because we don't want to deal with the discomfort.

We think discomfort is equated to bad. We think discomfort is equated to badness for development. Whereas I think discomfort is equated to growth. I think it's equated towards developing towards whatever. Final form sounds kind of weird, but whatever you get to, you know, getting to your deeper truth. Equilibrium. Yeah.

Something like that. Yeah. All right. I think I know where you were going with that. And we could totally like just follow that path. But I want to relitigate some of what you just said, because I'm not even saying it's wrong. I'm saying there's multiple things that tie into that concept of people now, they want to be married less and all that.

First of all, a big part of it certainly is going to have to do with hope and meaning. That includes for what you think would be in procreating with kids. What kind of world are they coming into? People do think about that. I don't waver on it like in the sense that i absolutely want kids but like amanda levy was asking me about it she's like do you ever think about that i'm like i do think about it so that means a lot of people are thinking about it and going yo fuck that but they're not only going fuck that because oh they're afraid of the world that they're bringing them into

they're also going fuck that because they're like could i pay for it yeah facts i forgot to mention that so so true yes like they could they also look at it like oh am i gonna have it i'm i'm gonna have kids with someone that's gonna be like wife number one out of five you know and the wife is thinking am i gonna have kids with a man who's gonna leave after two years you know like monogamy is not necessarily a natural thing at all we are animals at the end of the day. Spread the seed, baby. Genghis Khan. That works both ways.

You know, the old stereotype was that it's just males, but that takes away all agency from women. They absolutely have healthy thoughts and the same intentions. Like, you know, a guy marries someone, it's one vagina for the rest of your life. A woman marries someone, it's one dick for the rest of your life. It's the same shit, you know, a guy marries someone, it's one vagina for the rest of your life. A woman marries someone, it's one dick for the rest of your life. It's the same shit, you know? It's like, it's a wild thing. So it's a wild, wild thing. And I think people balance a lot of that because of generational changes in the concept of marriage and people who are getting divorced more they came from divorced homes where their parents really didn't like each other and then i think it comes back to

the initial things which is like the money or like what world am i bringing them into if i have kids or like do i want even the initial question do i want to to get married? This is like a legal document. It's kind of crazy to think about. And it's different. People all have different tastes. It's not just like type of male or female that a male or female or female or male or whatever is attracted to. It's also what their personality is like, how they're going to age, what their interests are, what their occupation is. Like there's a million variables out there, and then you've got to like narrow it down to one person.

You're like, holy shit. I mean, you look at that and you're like, how am I not going to fail at this? It's true. It's true. It's a scary thought to think about that, the multiple variable, millions of variables, and you're hoping that, yeah, it lands on this person.

Yeah, I meet their expectations and they meet my expectations. We hopefully make it work. I don't know, man. It's scary to me just the idea of relationships today. In a weird way, it's almost you look back to the 60s, our parents' generation, where it's like, all right, you find that person early on. All right, we're together, and we get married, and we have kids. There's that security. And a part of me is like, oh, I kind of like that idea. It's like, we're going to have that partnership, and we're going to make sure it works for

life. But with the generation we live in, we have many movements where it's like we're going to have that partnership and we're going to make sure it works for life. But with the generation we live in, we have many movements where it's like this progressiveness, right? This progressiveness where it's like, oh, maybe we can experiment a little bit. Maybe it doesn't have to be monogamy the entire way. Maybe we can try swinging or maybe we can introduce other things to keep the relationship alive. And it's consensual. We both agree upon it. And I don't know how I feel so much about that. And I know that there's a bunch of people who like that

and that's great for them. But to me, it's like, there's some things in the past that I'm just like, I feel true to that. Like it resonates with me. And it's like this generation, I'm not saying everyone, but there's this, I don't know if it's progressivism, but I don't know what it is. But it's just these new ideas that catapult us in this place where it's like these monogamous relationships or relationships in general, like we're redefining the term essentially. Like what is a relationship or how it's going to function?

And I don't know what that means for us or I don't know where that's gonna lead us, but obviously, you know, it's causing us to have many things happen, especially in college, you go to it, like what's huge is a hookup culture, right? That's very big, you know? And like at that age, we're young, we're stupid, we're gonna make mistakes

and we're gonna like hopefully learn from that. But how far do we continue that? How long does that go? Are we ever going to settle and, you know, decide to have that family or whatever? Like you said, like there might be the other variables. But to me, I start to reminisce on the idea of like, man, like it was almost easier in the 60s, you know, it's like, all right,

this is how society wants to act. This is what we're going to do. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's just at just at least you know that at least you guys have to make it work yeah i mean that that wasn't the answer though either which is fair to say like you're not gonna the old school ways of you make it work were the next generation of arranged marriages too you know it was like this expectation like well that's what you do but also they were at an earlier part in time where life expectancy was a lot lower not to say that like a year or five years or 10 years 15 years 20 years isn't a long time and ridiculous but like now it's like well shit you might live till you're 150 and do that

with the same person make it work right like we and we saw in in our generation and the generation prior to the parents who made it work until their kids left and went to college and they start fucking everything with a pulse if they weren't already and then they broke up and suddenly like oh your whole childhood was a lie you know and that happens so con like that is so common to see that happen and like i don't i didn't have to experience that my parents have a great relationship when friends did it's like oh like i don't know how that would affect me and then it look information also comes in yeah you live in the internet age did quick quick quick quick quick like examples comparison culture all this stuff you have so

many data points to look at it all fills inside your head and you want to compare every single thing like it's my life is perfect or you know everyone else seems like they have a great relationship like well that's not what i have you know but i think you were also saying somewhere in there about the people who are young and idealistic and they fall in love and they're like well this is it you know i feel for some of those people some of them at least how it appears they end up being right and like that's what they knew and they found the right person and i'm so happy for them but i know a lot of them didn't you know once upon a time i thought i was getting married at like 23 look at me now my second wife hasn't even fucking been born yet but you know it's like it's a joke people but

you know what i mean like i look at this i'm like oh my god like whoa let's let's put the goddamn like let's put the tamps down on this you know and i think about the conversation i would have had with my 21 year old self who thought like oh he's got a couple things figured out i wasn't ever like oh i got it figured out but i'm like well i got a couple things figured out. I wasn't ever like, oh, I got it figured out. But I'm like, well, I got a couple things that I feel like I know. Like, I'm really in love with her. She's cool.

Like, let's do it, right? Let's have some kids. Like, can you imagine fucking listening to me like a little human right now? Jesus Christ. Like, at 21? Thank God that didn't happen.

That poor thing would be dead in two years. Like, don't take my advice. But, you know, you live. You learn. You think like everything's humming around on there. thing would be dead in two years like don't take my advice but you know that you live you learn you you think like everything's humming around on there like you're smart or you at least have like the slightest idea you don't most people done not everyone most people i definitely did not you know and variables change and then maybe you get to a point where you start thinking about it more maturely where you recognize the realities of like to use yours and Rocky Bobo's line that you used a little bit ago. Like it's not sunshine and rainbows all the time.

And like you're not going to find – you're never going to find the perfect person, right? You can find the idea of the perfect person. That's a real thing. But like, yeah, everyone has their bad day. Guys have their days where we wake up and we just want to punch a wall. And I'm sure women go, what the fuck? What is wrong with you? You know, and then women have their days where they just wake up and they're yelling at you.

And guys are like, what the fuck is wrong? It's just we all have it. Every gender has it. They're both both genders have it. And like, that's just it's it's a reality of life and you have to figure out that like how do you find the people who are going to – excuse me, the person. I'm already thinking in people. Not good. The person is going to be your best friend and it's not just like a five-year contract signing with the New York Yankees and at the end you get paid nearly –

No. I mean that's probably fuck man i feel like i'm talking this into existence but you know that's what a lot of people deal with and that's it's not supposed to be what it is but i don't know as you can tell i i don't know a lot of things about this but i at least the one thing i do know is that i don't know and that it's not just me it's most people and that includes anyone you're going to meet or have met and whenever i've made big mistakes in my life with making judgments on relationships or even just friendships yes absolutely has the idea that concept we talked about earlier of believing that they are what I want them to be.

But it's also not understanding that I'm going to change too. And like different things in life are going to happen to me. Not all of what you can see, obviously, most of what you can't see. But including some stuff that may be a total curveball at some point. And it just just it switches you you know i i not to use an extreme one that's really sad but you know when you see couples divorce after a kid dies like i can't even imagine what that does to your life you know like who the am i to say like oh wow they shouldn't let that happen like no your whole world shifts i hope knock on wood

god forbid i never have to know anyone that deals with statistically i'm gonna but like there there are things that you can never be prepared for and then you can do everything you can to try to make things go back like they were but they don't you know so you have to do your best to at least evaluate all the things right in front of you otherwise you never have a shot and then even you have to understand even if that happens hey life happens too shit will change and you better be able to recognize it when it does and make a decision i i feel like in again i proclaim the same thing i know nothing i feel like i'm just an ape with my ape brain here trying to make sense

of reality and what this world is but some of the things that i feel like make sense to me right now in my life maybe i'll look back at this in 20 years be like alessi you were so wrong but right now you will yeah i'm excited we both will yeah both will. Yeah, it'll be funny, hopefully. I'll be on wife number four. Be like, see, I said it was going to be two. My mom's listening to this having a fucking heart attack, but whatever. I don't think she actually listens, but I hope she does. But the closest thing to that, I feel like to get close to that is just experiences. And, you know, because of this podcast, what I've done, I've been granted many experiences. And the experiences you get, whether good or bad,

it really allows you to develop and try things out. And traveling, meeting people, coming up here, like we met through a Lex Freeman podcast, just crazy things like that. It's just like these experiences, I'm going to remember this for the rest of my life, being, all right, I was in Miami. I met someone and I flew to Jersey and we did a podcast.

You know, like to me, it's like experiences like that where it's like, you don't know where that goes. This could be the beginning of the domino where you're hitting it down and bam, you're lining it all up and you're hitting that and you're going to where you need to go. And putting myself out there has been one of the best things I've done, even though it's very uncomfortable at times, but it's granted me so many opportunities and so many things that it's like, you know, it's better to do that and make mistakes and fail forward than it is to remain a hermit and just stay comfortable. That's what I felt has been the best part. And I failed so many times already. It's so many things. I know I'm only 20 i'm probably gonna fail even more but those failures i'm grateful for because i'm learning i'm getting these experiences and this learning curve is great because you know it's adding more

intelligence to my life and i'm hopefully going to use these experiences and act on them and be able to you know be the person i want to be and have that relationship i want to be well that's why you're getting there faster than most people like i when i talk with you i feel like you're you've seen the same years that i have and you haven't you're younger you know you're literally you graduated college i guess congratulations early yeah a month ago last month yeah so you still should be in college technically because you graduated early and like you do have a lot of the self-awareness of this stuff as i've said you have a lot of you have the traits to go after those things and as you just beautifully put it go right after the failure that will inevitably come with some of those attempts right and a lot

of us talk about that you know gary v fail fail fail go after it right but most people they're like oh yeah i fucking love failing and then they go to do it and they're like well this fucking blows and they go blow their brains out not really please don't do that but like you know they they they talk they get like the porn of the hustle porn on it and they're like oh yeah i'm just gonna do that i'm gonna fail and they just like try to go fail at shit you are just putting yourself into experiences. And I know you've put it this way in the past. Maybe you said this at some point tonight, but if you didn't, you like to put yourself

into situations that aren't five minutes that are seemingly at the thought coming into your head of like, oh, am I going to go do this? Uncomfortable, right? Like you're fromia and when college got nutty and you weren't allowed to be at school anymore because of the pandemic a few things happened you cut your major as you're like i don't want to do this which was very smart and i think that was more of a long-term decision you would come to so good for you so that's mature and then you were like well i also want to learn more about myself and i can do that by learning

from other people what's a good way to do that talk to them on a podcast because then they have to talk about their experiences i'll start a podcast and you did and you were great at it but then you were like well we're we're remote i'm living in california at home i've already done this shit for 20 years fuck this i'm gonna go to miami i like i thought you had like 20 people in miami or some shit or there was like a forum and you're just like no i just moved there i'm like what like i'm like this kid's dumb like well why would he ever do that and then i think about it i'm like oh no i just wouldn't do that because i'm a pussy i'm like wow he's already wow holy shit and then like you know you're like yeah i'll fly in i was like we need to do a weekend to like

talk over some of this stuff go behind the scenes of the podcast and we'll record some podcasts like yeah fuck it i'll fly in for a weekend like i didn't know where you were coming from you're back in miami now it's like you do these things you put yourself out there and frankly let's turn the tide here because it's right on cue but like it also put you in another position to do one of the coolest fucking things ever that is giving you legitimacy at the right young age of 21 where you successfully leverage your podcast in a way that I've been fortunate to leverage as well because I love this. But you see it and have taken it to a whole new level where you then got yourself a crazy opportunity through someone you brought on so you bring on this guy jimmy fox jimmy fox as i like to call him no one calls him jimmy but i do what's up buddy anyway i don't know him at all but for people that don't know he's one of the preeminent ufologist in the world and he's also great because he's a huge skeptic of ufo stories

he starts from a space of nah this is probably no nope nope i need to see a lot more from you and there's some people who are never going to believe this stuff but he does believe strongly in extracurricular extracurricular extraterrestrial life listen to me mr college professor over here but he believes strongly in that and sees a lot of data that suggests it has happened sees a lot of stories that appear some appear to have truth have been covered up and he's made a life where he didn't make any money for a long time he lived very light and tight for years and years tracking some of this down and now thank god like he's making a great career out of it and and has has the ability to more invest in himself but you bring this guy on your podcast he's very tight with logan paul he's i believe kite with joe

rogan too yeah on their shows and you get him to come on because you're so into aliens and you were indoctrinating me into this whole cult which is is what it is. Let's go, baby. And so you talk with him for, I don't know, an hour, 15 minutes, hour and a half, whatever it was, had a great conversation, and at the end, you asked him what? I made the big ask, and I recommend it. Maybe it's not smart, but I was like, at the end of the conversation, I'm like,

I probably will never be able to talk to this guy again. And I told him afterwards, don't leave the zoom conversation right away. I need to ask you something. I'm like, is there any way I can accompany you on your next film? I would love to be a part of the team. I'll do whatever needs to be done. I'll be carrying lugging equipment. I would love to be there to see what it's like to interview these testimonials with people and hear what they're saying, if it's true or not, and have a BS meter. So for myself, I can be like, did this actually happen? Or am I just hearing the story from this guy's lens,

and he's believing the confirmation bias? And to my surprise, he said, send me an email in a week, and we'll see what we can do. I sent him an email a week later. He didn't respond. Then I sent him an email a month later. He didn't respond. Then another month later, I sent him an email, and he he didn't respond then i sent him an email a month later he didn't respond then another month later i sent him an email and he responded he's like fuck yeah and he won't go away and he said all right dude your persistence has paid off um we're going to brazil

in august of 2021 pack your shit yeah exactly he's expecting you to be like oh yeah sorry i can't a month i can't do that and you're like i'll be there tomorrow exactly exactly and he was like when you come down like all you gotta do is pay for the ticket and we'll take care of you i'm like oh my gosh this guy i met for only an hour 30 minutes right oh he hooked it up and he completely hooked it up he just said fly down there pay for the flight and i'll take care of the rest so i'm like all right i bought a ticket to sao paulo from santa from miami down. I had no idea where I was going. He just said, meet at this place, like a hotel. And I didn't know what time he was going to be there, where he was going to do it, if he was going to be doing interviews. So I flew down there.

I arrived. I'm like, all right, I'll just get a taxi there. I got a taxi. I arrived. And it was like 6 a.m. because I got in around 5 and i'm just like in the lobby of this hotel i'm like i can't believe they're staying here this is insane it was like a i forgot what the hotel was but it was a very nice hotel and i see they have a buffet and i'm like yeah i'm here with some people so i start getting food and then i see the crew come down i see the cameraman they weren't that many though right no there wasn't it was a total of yeah it was nine people two translators national geographic um videographer and also the guy who did ice cubes um today was a good day music video um david you do an alien documentary yeah i love it i know he's done everything he's also did naked and afraid and then there's also their producer and

then another um it was a production assistant and then the director, James Fox. They all came down, and then I saw James, and I just approached him. I'm like, hey, dude, it's Alessi right here. And he's like, oh, dude, welcome to the crew. I forgot you were coming. Yeah, and I kind of surprised. He's like, let's go upstairs. I'll set you up in the hotel room.

Remember that kid I said wasn't coming? Fuck, he showed up. And this is the last part. I go to the hotel room, and someone had spent the night there with the crew in the room. He's like, this is going to be your room. Don't worry. We're going the crew in the room he's like this is gonna be your room don't worry we're gonna move all the things like don't worry about it we'll take care of this but this is your room it's like i just said to spend the night here so i had my own room it's like a king-size bed in this hotel i'm like this is incredible and then what ended up happening is we started to report on the 1996

event what happened in virginia and yeah let's go into this this is yeah so this is the crazy story and i sent you the article text so you can look into it um if you want to pop that up okay but 1091 production essentially said to james fox like yeah you can go down to virginia brazil and what happened in before you say that though i just want to make sure so people follow what was because he's made a bunch of these yeah but the last documentary so we have context was called the phenomenon and that was from he released that in 2021 he released that in 2020 okay 2020 yeah was there was this like was this event that you're going to explain in varginha if i pronounce that correctly was this an iteration that came out of things that were uncovered from the previous doc or was he just going in a totally

different story that he had been tracking down this had been stories because he has so many stories across the world and this is just one of the stories that he heard and it's one of the craziest stories in history and so he was like you know what i want to report on this virginia case in brazil because essentially what the narratives that was told in 1996 was that a ufo had crashed in this town in virginia and to give you guys an idea virginia is pinpointed right in the trifecta between rio brasilia and sao paulo which are all the major cities and it's right in the middle if you look at it geographically I'm going to stick a map in the corner right now so people can look

because I have no idea where the fuck that is and what ended up happening is the UFO crashed there and reported to the people of Virginia there were three girls between the ages of 14 and 19 at the time and they had spotted a creature what year was this again? 1996

and what ended up happening in the preceding months I think it was in January the preceding months in April spotted in a creature. What year was this again? 1996. Yeah. And what ended up happening in the preceding months, I think it was in January, the preceding months in April, in the entire town of Virginia, which I don't know what the population is, but I think it's in the tens of thousands. There were a lot of UFO reported from the people saying they'd saw unidentified flying objects.

And the entire news got in there. It made the Wall Street Journal, like it made headlines and then it died. And James Fox said that some people reach out to him like you got to check out this case. It's one of the craziest cases in history. You got to go check it out. Like there's no way a UFO crashed in Brazil, and people saw a creature. There's no way I don't believe it. So you refuse to report on it. Until eventually,

the translator Marco, he's one of the best translators and one of the head ufologists in Brazil reached out to him. He's like, you got to report on this. It's an amazing story. So he's like, all right, tell me what you know. And he had some pretty crazy witnesses lined up to talk about the testimonials that were lined up to say what had happened. Have people really tried to report on this before?

Yes. Like long form? Yeah. So there's the famous psychologist, ufologist, John McKay. And he was on Oprah. Not familiar with him. Okay. So he's from Harvard and he was a psychologist. He went into Zimbabwe. And if you watch the phenomenon, there's the Zimbabwe scene where essentially there was a UFO landing in a school in broad daylight.

I did see this guy. Yes. Yeah. And so John McKay reported on this when this happened and what ended up happening with him in wasn't he in that movie or like footage was him of him was yeah exactly exactly exactly see this and what ended up happening to him which is kind of weird but there's no conspiracy around it is that he ended up looking the wrong way and died in accident in 2003 so he unfortunately passed away john mckay but what ended up looking the wrong way and died in an accident in 2003 so he unfortunately passed away john mckay but what ended up happening is james fox essentially took the torch of what john mckay was doing is like all right let me go investigate zimbabwe and let me go investigate virginia since

john mckay had been down there to those places i'm sorry i gotta make sure then on this did they have so they had footage of him in that documentary? Talking. Who was the guy talking? I'm picturing a guy in my head. I want to say, if I'm thinking of the right scenes in the documentary, white hair, maybe he had a mustache, and he was like the expert, and I thought he was.

No, that's Jean-Jacques Vallée you're talking about. He's the French guy. No, they had scenes where they got footage from the 1996 interviews of virginia yeah so they got to see john mckay so they were doing the back and forth because they they had the children when they were young and they brought him back to the site whatever 20 years 20 years later um okay back to what you were saying yeah so then john mckay unfortunately died and what ended up happening is james fox picked up the torch and was like all right i'm gonna keep jim for it jimmy fox jimmy fox ended up kept on reporting on the case that took place so then he went to zimbabwe and if you watch the phenomenon it's the last it's the last not it's the last sequence in the film and it's probably the most compelling part of the

entire film you see these children that witness a broad daylight UFO landing and all the children witness it. And you see it because in the drawings, they draw these pictures of the stereotypical alien you can imagine. Big head, no muscles, no genitalia, small childlike, big black eyes, small mouth. And they all drew these images after the event. And many of these children, if you see the documentary, spoiler alert, they said they had some sort of telepathic connection where they felt very bad about technology. You see the interviews then and the interviews now,

and it's all lined up. Their stories are still the same. It is so compelling. I'm always going to play devil's advocate of course of course and it's important to do this especially with crazy stories definitely definitely but for all the people out there going okay that they were coached or they were trance they were jonestown jamestown whatever the yeah we still gotta look that up i i can't it's playing tricks in my mind but whatever that tragedy was with the call out in in 77 or 78 like there is the potential that like a group of people whatever it was 30 school kids 40 school kids could all be led to believe that they saw something they didn't just like you know the

united states government tried to tell us jfk died from a magic bullet you know people bought that of course some people did it's not real but you know some people believe in fairy tales so like what do you and jimmy say about that i don't think i can i can't say what james thinks but for me based off the footage you know if that variable is included yeah it's it's entirely possible but then i also start to think like you know they have interviews back then of the children talking about the case and it's to me it's like and they're how old oh like between like four to ten years old um and to me i start yeah i start thinking i'm like you know like why would these children lie why would they lie about this event the entire class seeing this the seeing this ufo land

the creatures come out and they even saw the creatures do some crazy thing where they were like hopping and things were levitating whatever why would they all collectively get together and say they saw this like there's always going to be the outliers going to be like no they're full of shit this didn't happen now were there any kids who did that no not one not one that i know or were they killed and never heard from again maybe that john mckay whacked him before i'm starting that conspiracy but you hear this and you're just like okay that's kind of wild and like for me you know i want to believe the children obviously i still have that skipped in the back of my mind so i can't say 100 100% Yes, that happened. But it's pretty damn

compelling. Or it's like, okay, you have to think to the extremes of the conspiracy route being like, okay, maybe they were brainwashed, or they did some hypnosis, like you're going that far to say, this didn't happen. So to me, it's like, alright, there's got to be some, some truth in that statement, you know, in that collective group opinion. What was the size? And there are public, he showed the public pictures that they drew, right?

Yeah, he showed the public pictures. So I'm going to go pull those up. I'll put those in the corner right now. But I'm trying to remember, what was like the size of the UFO that they say landed? I don't know the dimensions, but it was disc-like. It was a disc-like shape that landed dimensions but it was disc like it was a disc like shape that landed and it wasn't like four feet no it wasn't four it was big yeah it was

it was like a ship yeah it was like a ship like star wars the little r2d2 or whatever the fuck came out of it yeah it was like you know three feet tall as you said all that childlike yeah yeah what about the people forget the ufo for a second that's interesting what about the people who are like well you know they lived out in the woods in africa and it was really just an animal that was standing there and it was far enough away that they're like oh that must be something and really it was like you know clinton was calling in a drone strike or some shit like that it went a little wrong and then you know something fell from the sky.

Whoops, sorry. You know, best that it happens over Africa. They won't care. Like, what about the people that say something like that? Dude, it's entirely possible. Like, I saw footage, I know Rogan posted of a drone that went from like zero to 200 miles an hour in a split second. So, you know, there's obviously technology out there that could potentially, that could be out there. It's probably more advanced now than it was even back then but they probably maybe had something

to that extent that's entirely possible but to like say that there was some sort of creature like to me and it's like these are children like i just i don't understand why would they lie to this yes and tell people and say on camera and they would all go along with it to me that doesn't that's the most compelling part. They were young and innocent enough. They're not thinking about social credit of what they're about to say with that. Now, they could be saying – people want to believe in things. It's like we were talking about with meaning.

People want to believe there's meaning in life. 100%. You know what? QAnon is fucking real oh my god you know so people in the same psychological vein can be like aliens are real but four to ten year old kids you're most innocent you are most likely to be exaggerators and tell some stories then but if they're all saying it it's it is compelling it's like if the aliens have intelligence and they were going to go somewhere i'll go to africa But if they're all saying it, it is compelling. It's like if the aliens have intelligence and they were going to go somewhere, go to Africa.

Go where there's spread out people and go to a third world country where there aren't as many camera rollings or any cameras rolling and land there and they'll never fucking know. But then they happen to land where there's enough people and there's some kids. Like, holy shit, there's a little bot. You know? And now, boom, we have a story. And what's the crazy part, too, is many of these witnesses didn't want to come forward. Many of them had never actually told their spouses.

Which just goes to show it's like, all right, if they were trying to make money off this thing, right? Why didn't they use this being like, oh, we saw a UFO? You know what? Maybe we can reach out to Hollywood. We can make a movie out of this, or we can make a book out of this. But many of these people kept this a secret for years, even though they had those interviews back in 1996 with John McKay. And it wasn't until James reached out to them and was like,

hey, do you want to come forward? And it was like he said, it took a lot of work to actually get them to come forward. But when they did, like when the spouses saw the film of these people, they were like, holy shit. Like, why don't you tell us about this? And they're like, you're going to think I'm a nutcase. Like, why would I tell you about this? Like you would completely think I'm bonkers. And you'd send me to a psychiatrist's hospital. So a psychiatric hospital. So a lot of these people to me, when you hear that, it's like, that like that's kind of strange like the fact they didn't want to take advantage of the situation that they didn't want to come forward you know that's compelling in itself i feel like i agree i think

that is that that was a i came away from watching that and like i know how media can paint things yeah especially talented well put together media i came away from watching that and like i know how media can paint things yeah especially talented well put together media i came away from watching that though also with the bias of you knowing mr fox here and how he operates yeah and i think that's positive bias i don't think that's like a i don't think it's like you want to believe it because i still have doubts, right? But I saw how it was put together, and I'm like, I did feel like it was more compelling towards, yeah, they actually do think this versus, no, they were coerced. I still got to ask that. Of course. I'm still asking it to myself, but I feel like that was more there. Where I still was not all the way was

it happened i'm not there because i'm like i still feel like people could be compelled in some way you know maybe jeffrey epstein got off that fucking plane and said you just saw like you never know like there's crazy shit that happens in this world and then my tinfoil hat goes on for all the other explanations to disexplain the tinfoil hat theory that it was an alien but you know you you look at probabilities as you get older and like as you get me into this stuff and you start to think about how big the galaxy could be and all these different things and the concept of time and space and matter and and speed that can be associated with that and and advanced civilizations that could exist in a universe that we don't know the ends or depths of and

how they could hack certain wormholes and black holes and all this bullshit and it's like well statistically speaking yeah there's life out there there is not gonna get here i don't know are we gonna figure out how time travel have we already maybe I don't know so you start is it all simulation meaning holy shit everything's available maybe I don't know you do have to wonder and you got to start with the little details that can be backed by at least something right and again that's what I like about this guy. He's more likely to look at you and say,

listen, that was a plane, dude. That wasn't a UFO. He has a very high burden of proof, whatever the highest it could possibly be. It's still going to have questions all around it, but he has a high burden of proof to looking into something. So that was the last one. And now let's go back to varginha yeah i keep

getting varginha i'm never gonna pronounce the giant yeah no don't even know if you showed me brazil on a map i'd probably point the fucking peru dude it's the most rural place it's you would you wouldn't go out of your way to visit that's for sure again i'll put the map in the corner once again to review people yeah but going back to your point real quick about the zimbabwe like even after i watched that i was incredibly. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to go on this trip was like, all right, like he had that experience. He was there. He could see these people in person and afterwards they spent time together. So you could start to figure out like, all right, like how much is this person telling the truth? Like, is he a line? Is he manipulating the situation?

So I wanted to be there to get that experience because, you know, my curiosity runs wild and I'm just that guy where I want to do that. So 1996, Virginia, Brazil, the UFO crash. So we end up going to Virginia and I'll tell you about three of the most important interviews. There's many in there, but I don't want to tell them all since there's, you can watch the documentary once it comes out in April. But the first interview that's the most compelling at this point was this guy named Carlos Sosa. And Carlos Sosa was a truck driver. I was going to say, he sounds like a Coke dealer. Neither here nor there. And he's coming from Sao Paulo, and he was going to Brasilia, right?

Right in the triangle. And he's going right across Virginia. And on the way to south on the way to brasilia what ends up happening you know he's just driving he says it's like around four or five in the morning and he looks up to the sky and he sees this cigarette like shape object just going like shoo and he says what happens is it makes this huge turn and it starts going to this hill. And it's like farmlands. Imagine like it kind of looks like Napa Valley from California.

It's just like a bunch of farmlands. Never been. Okay. For those listening, look that up. But he sees it go into this hill and it just goes over the hill. And he's like, let me go check that out. So he's in his truck. He pulls over, whips it around, goes up the hill.

And as he's going up the hill, He then sees just this object just on fire and just there. Like, what the hell is this? This doesn't look like a plane. This doesn't look like a helicopter. What is this? So he gets out of his truck. And when he goes to the site, he sees, like he says, it was a strong ammonia scent. Like he could barely open his eyes. His eyes were squinting the entire time. He was like, I can't really see. And he sees a piece of the object, and he picks it up. And according to him, I'm not saying I believe this, but according to him, he picked up the object. It was metal-like.

And what he did was he crushed it into a ball. And as soon as he opened his hand, it retained its form. It went back to its original form, what it looked like. And to this day, I really don't know any metal that did that. What was his job again he was a truck driver we sure he wasn't on mushrooms i think he might have been on st i don't know but again worth it yeah of course it's definitely worth the question so he picks up this object in this material that's like very foreign it's not from this planet it seems like and we

asked him the question like did it look like there could be beings in there? And he said, yes, it's entirely possible beings could have been in there based on what the ship, the shape of the object looked like. And then within... Big enough or small enough to just pick up like that? No, no, not the ship. He picked up an object that had broken off the ship. Oh, I thought you were saying that in the object itself.

No, no, no, no. Okay. So he was saying like the ship itself. Yeah. And like had in the object itself no no no so he was saying like the ship itself yeah and like it broken off in some debris and he picked up the debris got it and he says like within minutes from the base nearby a military base named essa there was a truckload of soldiers that arrived and essentially pointed a gun at him and said if you don't leave right now we're gonna shoot you leave leave leave and he immediately got his car he's he, he, this entire time, this guy is like just in shock. Like what is happening? What did I just witness? Why am I

being threatened and foreseeing something where I'm trying to help this, whatever's going on and trying to help if there's people there. So he gets in his truck, he's completely distraught. So he's driving. He's like, I need to go to the next gas station. Like I just, I need to get some water in my face, get some coffee. Like, I don't know what just happened. And for all those listening right now, this is going to get kind of, you know, I don't expect you to believe me. If you told, if I told myself this a year before this event, you would totally think I am crazy. And I would say that to myself being like, you are crazy. You need to go to a hospital. I get it. I get it. I get it. I just ask you to hear me out. There's one five minutes away. Yeah, exactly i get it i get it i just asked you five minutes away

yeah exactly okay perfect and i just ask you hear me out here but he gets to the gas station gets the coffee throw some water in his face and when he walks out there's four men in black and they're wearing glasses just like the suits was will smith there no tom lee jones Was Will Smith there? No. Tommy Lee Jones. I knew it. He wasn't acting. I fucking knew it. But it's just like the movie he described. He didn't say the movie, but he said there was just four men in black. And he said one of them was speaking Portuguese.

The other three said looked American. That's what he described. And essentially, they start going through this thing being like, Carlos, how are you doing? And he's like, who are you guys? And he's like, oh, you know, we're just checking how's your wife doing portuguese portuguese guys talking to him yes the one guy exactly the one the other three guys are just there silent exactly silent and they start going to like how's your wife doing how's your kid how's your uncle by this name how's your aunt by this name how's your cousin by this name and then they start saying things along the lines like you know you know bad things can happen to good people and you know just understand that like we want

the best for you so what you just saw you know you didn't see anything right and then he's just like and from how the gas station was like there was like they were in this part of the gas station where you know they were inside whatever in this part and he's in shock and he says they go outside and then when he goes outside again he says they're just gone so that part i'm like that's kind of weird i don't know why they just disappeared all on camera saying all this yeah how old is he now he is he's like in his 40s or 50s did you check his medical records i they probably did i i don't know this specific yeah that's more james i'm gonna ask jimmy that yeah ask jimmy that buddy jim exactly i'm just

reiterating from the experience i saw and what they told me so then that happens and i'm like all right men in black when i hear that story and let me tell you we then took him for the first time in 25 years to the site he He lives in Sao Paulo. We drove him from Sao Paulo to Virginia. No, that's in Rio. Fuck. Exactly. Wrong place. We took him to Virginia. He hung out with us for about a week. We had good times together. We had good dinners. We drank together. Like I got to like pick this guy apart, be like, all right, like what is this guy like? And from my perspective, this guy was telling the truth. There's no reason. What made you say that? There's no reason for him to come forward and tell this because he was terrified. Literally

coming forward, he canceled on us twice before we even, this happened. He's like, I don't want to do this. I'm scared. Like, I don't know what's going to happen. I've been threatened about this. And I'm like, when was the latest time he claimed to be threatened? He said 1996 he got threatened, and then after that, I think maybe one other time. I don't quite remember. Was there a thing that caused it? Well, you said you don't quite remember.

Okay. Yeah. I would love to know. Yeah. And here's the thing. Based on what I've heard James talk about for his previous documentaries and the things he looks into

I'd love to know if he checks some of that stuff out because he's the guy that does that's why I like him like he really he wants to know your entire life story down to the detail and find every possible thing on you beyond what Google can tell him

and so these types of questions and also the records that you could pull like yeah this guy's schizophrenic like like that you got to know that stuff but you guys how many days it was like a week you said you were there yeah a week did james tell you and the other guys and girls on the crew like specific was there any strategy to like all right let's see if we can no see if you can get him to talk about this or whatever just like not on camera i'm saying off camera it was it was credibility it was more just like all right this guy has this testimonial like we're gonna spend

time with him and i think he has his own methods of breaking down if what how this person is if he's telling the truth or not like i've said before he's incredibly. I've had conversations with him while we were there and on the phone, just like how he's like, I don't believe this. I don't think this is true or whatever. But they had done research. They had been prepping for this for months. And the guy, Marco, the translator, that's Marco. And then Fernanda, who's another translator and James.

So Marco and Fernanda live in Brazil. And they had been like essentially scouting this guy out. They had been having conversations, dinners, whatever, like going whatever, just to like, figure out the story and see the continuity with it. And James essentially hired them to go do that. So when we got got down there, like he trusted Marco's word, and Fernanda's. So then when that, that, that story in itself, you know, it's like obviously pretty crazy. I'm not sure. I'm like, to me, it was like, we took him back

to the site. That's where I was at. We took him back to the site for the first time since 1996. And I keep saying this, either he put on an Oscar award-winning performance or that guy saw some crazy shit because when he got to the site, we couldn't find it, you'll see it in the documentary, we were looking around like, where is it? He said there was a house here, there's a tree there. We were looking on this farmland where the crash was. Yeah, we were checking all that looking around. And then guess what, we end up finding a house they

described, we find the tree. And as soon as he gets the site before this, he was like cool like calm he's kind of like a little introverted guy he just starts tearing up he just starts having this visceral reaction where he gets down he's like it was here and he starts describing in specific detail be like it came here it was right there we start moving around we have this crazy intimate interview all on camera all on camera we captured the moment he saw it for the first time and you look into his eyes and you're like that man is telling the goddamn truth because he saw some crazy shit and it's just like i said either that guy has acting classes that he's lying about

or he saw something because from just what i saw and that's all I can say, like it's just from that experience, it was so surreal in such once in a lifetime where it was like this guy obviously saw something and it traumatized him and all the memories were coming. And he started going in specific detail, no hesitation, no fumbling of the words, no stuttering, boom, spot on, everything. And it was just a crazy crazy experience and we stayed there for a couple hours just him at the site and it was like we're about to leave it he just kind of wanted to stay and look at it just like wow like this happened here

like it was very very crazy now when the object landed Mr. Sosa here came upon it and the men in black showed up, they showed up along with the military, right? Or members of the military from the local base, right? We don't know that. We know that the military showed up at the site of the crash, but the men in black showed up at the gas station. Right, right. Okay, that's, sorry sorry i misstated that either way the military showed up to the site of the crash and then the men in black came in there somewhere we'll come back to that how did the crash get removed from the site who did it

who was responsible was it members of the military i assume what was done with it do we know anything about that what's the backstory there and did you interview anyone who has any type of idea surrounding or knowledge of the situation? Yes, we interviewed many people in the military base of ESA. And we interviewed some high level doctors that apparently worked in that area as well. But we really don't know what happens. At this point, it's pure speculation being that they pretty much got all the pieces and took it back to the base. We don't know that we have no confirmation of that. The people that we've tried to reach out to who say they did do not want to come forward. And this is- Who are they?

These are other military personnel that were there. That were on the scene. Exactly. And they won't talk about it. They won't talk about it. And you try, did you like actually go to their homes and try to talk, like try to get them to do it? The translator, yeah, he's's had and these people have been like if you come back here like you're not allowed to like please leave us alone we don't want you here please stop and we've even offered

very generous sums of money for these people who again are in very very poor conditions like they're not they need the money and they've refused it because they don't want to put themselves in that position. Wow. And again, I'm always going to think through the skeptic side of it and all that. And I hope you all do that too, please. It's very compelling though when you see you know there's the one guy who's the one truck driver witness who has that reaction now a skeptic could say well he's mentally unwell he can make himself believe that he saw stuff and then actually have a visceral emotional reaction that he thinks is

honest to it all possible you did spend a week with him and it comes back to that psychological Theory we were talking about earlier in another context of believing what you want to believe like you down yeah the confirmation bias you're doing a documentary like oh i want to believe this guy's honest maybe he is and maybe maybe even with some of that bias he actually is but who was if it wasn't the military guys who wouldn't talk because like you couldn't get a hold of them like they literally wouldn't let you near where they live or whatever and they're like we're not doing this who was the guy you told me about where you were explaining you actually became a backup filmer by choice like out of nowhere you were like in the car and then is that right like you walked out of it with your iphone on and you're like james is

actually going to use this in the documentary like what who was that then so and what what happened i think i think this is gonna the way i think we should break this down is let me explain i think the sequence of events and then we go back and pick them apart just because i think the whole storyline it'll make sense that way you can see what happened and then we can break it apart just because i think we can get it all out first but so what happened next is we interviewed out of the three i'm going to talk about there's more but these are the three ones i want to talk about the second one is the girl seeing the creature and that happened that whoa the creature yeah i thought you said it was an object and it blew the fuck up and you don't know how. That was Carlos Sosa.

So now I'm talking about these three girls. So these three girls saw a supposed creature in Virginia, the town. So these three girls between the ages of 14 and 19. At the time. At the time. In 96. 96. And this happened either a few days or a few weeks.

It's in the same time, same month. What they were doing is they were just playing, you know, innocent girls having fun, playing ball, walking through these areas. And it's like a rural town, like some of the areas are now very developed, but this area is still in Virginia. It's just a lot. They've dedicated it as a lot because it's like this is where the creature was seen.

The town of Virginia knows this. And for all the skeptics out there, I will credit is that the town is behind this idea. Like there are pictures of aliens and like statues of aliens in the town because of this event so that's important to point out yeah that's a good skeptical confirmation bias yeah yeah it's important to point that out so the town is behind this um but in the time you know the ufo crash like that didn't make headlines that wasn't publicized this is something that was later found out after all this information was compiled but this when are we talking this is like it happened in 96 but when you say when

january it happened in january and then february and then i think it all got compiled in march april in that time okay so same year yeah within 90 sub 90 days exactly exactly and then what ends up happening is these girls were just playing one day in the town. And at this time, it wasn't developed. There was a lot of areas where there's grass patches. And they were playing. And one of the girls looked over at this wall and there's cement wall. And she supposedly saw a creature that was bent over in a praying shape like this.

And it looked at them like this. And she said, what is that? And they screamed and they ran to their house which was like two blocks down and when they ran to the house they were just they told the mother like we just saw this this creature they thought it was a burned man they said we saw a burned man is this the same day as the crash I don't know no no no I said it was a few days or a few weeks later i was trying to piece this together okay exactly just to give you the sequence it crashes then there's the science

of the creatures and they told me i'm like getting ahead of you because i'm like picturing all this yeah yeah of course for the audience out there for everyone listening i apologize but i'm trying to like concept all this yeah and i could be doing a poor job so you're doing a great job okay so then what ends up happening is they go back to the mother. So two of them are sisters. The other one's a friend. They go back to the two sisters' mother. And the mother, they say, we just saw this burnt man up here, and it was really weird looking.

It looked like a weird creature. We don't know what it is. And the mother was like, okay, because the girls were terrified. Like, let's go up to the site. So she drove up with one of them in the car back to the site. And when she got to the site, and this is all on one of them in the car back to the site. And when she got to the site, and this is all on camera, we brought them all back to the site to explain this is that they saw a V shaped

footprint on the ground. V and there was a strong ammonia scent, a very strong ammonia scent where she said her eyes were closing again, similar to Carlos Sosa's story. And she said she didn't see any creature, see anything, but she saw this weird print on the ground. So then she drives back down to her house and she parks back at her house and she stays in, you know, it's just, they just carry on. They're just like, that was bizarre, whatever. Okay, whatever. And this was the impetus of why this story went public. That night, they get a knock on the door. The mother goes to the door, opens the door. Guess who's there?

The men in black. They walk in. I think it was either three or four this time. And again... Are they wearing sunglasses? That's a good point. I don't remember. I don't remember that point.

I think it was late at night. She said it was close to midnight. Ma'am, I need you to look right point. I think it was late at night. She said it was like close to midnight. Ma'am, I need you to look right here, straight into the light. Thank you. Your name is Helen Keller. You are deaf, dumb, and blind. You have lived here your entire life. You never saw us. We were not here. My partner, you do not know his name.

If you ever say anything about this, you will be killed, executed by your military without tribunal immediately. Understood? Okay, thank you. That's all I want. Exactly. okay no but what ended up happening is that the the men in black go to them and again it's the same as so is that where they start threatening them saying if you talk about this you know bad things can happen to good people kind of that whole you know whatever monologue they do and you know for this woman you meet her to this day you'll see the interview she is this just charismatic strong woman who's just such a ball of energy she was like screw that

you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna take it to the news i'm gonna take it right to the headquarters of the news and tell the story did they pay her huh did they pay her i'm not sure of that okay i don't know i don't know good I don't know. Good question. And what happens. I'm tough. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Some of these I don't have the response for.

So it's like at some point, James will have to come in here and hopefully fill the gaps. I'll grill him. Yeah. I'll grill him. It'll be good. It'll be good. We'll get to the truth. We'll have fun.

So then they go to the news station and then essentially it makes headlines and it doesn't just make countrywide headlines. It makes worldwide headlines. And that's when the Wall Street Journal, you can look it up. I think you can put it in the video, but there's an article of the Virginia in 1996 reporting of the three girls seeing the creature. And because of this, I think the theory is that she got ahead of this when she told it that they got so much, like so much attention towards them that if anything did happen to them, you know, obviously it would have meant that, OK, there's obviously something going on here.

Those people just convicted themselves. Well, yeah, I would have also said if anything could have happened to fucking Jeffrey Epstein. But look what happened. You know what I mean? Yeah. You have to wonder that kind of God damn it. It's behind a paywall.'s on the wall street journal it's called 1986 tale of stinky extraterrestrial stirs up a ufo crowd in brazil how do you have a 1996 article behind a goddamn paywall all right that's right all right let's try this this is from surveillance video i assume this is a different

article yeah it is yeah i don't know if that gets trustworthy. Alright, keep going. Just keep talking. So they see the creature. The men in black come, threaten them. And we put Carla Sosa in the same room as the girl and the mother. And they'd never met before. We brought them two together. And when they start talking, they literally never met each other.

And they start talking about these events. How do we know they never met each other? Good question. I'm not sure. That's what they say that's that's a testimonial and probably james again the background research like marco the translators fernanda they probably know more about that again yeah and they may not be able to know anything exactly exactly do we have cat so when you guys bring them together before you put them in the actual room like if they saw each other before the room itself if they didn't i guess that's a separate issue but like do you guys have cameras rolling yeah at all times for like stuff you're not even probably gonna end up making the doc but you at least

have it so you can review the tape just to see like all right what were their eyes doing before we got there were they darting or like have body language experts every night we were going over the footage like james going over it religiously you just have it you're filming at all times yeah yeah multiple angles yeah well no we had only two angles because we only had one camera that's multiple that's more than one all right good point a little the booze kick it in um but so yeah so then we end up getting that footage and we talk to the girls we talk to the mother we bring them together and their stories seem to align to the point that there's these men in black figures and james goes on to say about this and he'll say this in the film how he's been told

about these men in black figures since he started doing these things he's heard it in china he's gone to iran he's heard it what year did he start to 19 no no 1995 or 95 or 4 i think and he heard it in 95 94 no i'm not saying that i'm saying that he's heard it when he's gone to these other places i don't know when or where but he's heard it over the years the reason i asked that is because i want to know and i don't know i'm sure this was probably mentioned in previous pop culture films but men in black the film i was typing on the computer so sorry for being away from the mic everyone but men in black the film came out in 1997 so what would be compelling because that was when it if it was an idea idea mentioned or that had characters in previous movies they were smaller and far less known, especially internationally if I can't even think of them like here in America.

That is when we got the first image of the dude in the black suit with the sunglasses going up with the light and doing the whole fucking shebang. So if he was going to places in 1995 and people are saying this, that makes it unbelievably compelling like that makes it like oh you know i'd need to go review if comic books had this in there maybe they did but yeah like that's another thing people are going to bring up like of course they saw the movie you know yeah like oh the men in black came and they might have so that that is good point i definitely cannot confirm that that's something that you know it could have been that this all started happening after the movie. That's completely true. But the one part that is compelling is that this is all across the world he's seen.

He's seen in Africa. He saw in Iran. He saw in China. And they're all saying that they had these men in black figures. And in all his other films, he wanted to talk about it, but he said that he decided not to. He said, no, I don't think that's going to be the right move i think that is too much i think that's a little bit of horseshit i don't believe it but he said after this film he's heard it so much at this point it's almost undeniable he has to talk about it he said it'd be a crime if he didn't bring it up at all now

it comes to a point where maybe the word undeniable is not there but it's like you've heard it so much that you have to at least report the you've heard it this much yes there we go yeah no i understand that i think that's fair okay so girls meet sosa aka coke dealer and they describe this he's not really coke dealer people but they describe the same things and you have this on camera. So you had his initial interview. You had the girls and the mother interview. You had his. I said that twice. Who else?

Now we get into the third one and the last one, and this is the one that is the most compelling probably out of all of them, and it's the fact that we spoke to a driver. We spoke to the, the, not the driver, but the person in the passenger seat of a military vehicle. And this guy was military personnel. Who arrived on scene. Who arrived on the scene, not of this creature, but of another creature where they were driving on the roads. Because to give you an idea, the military had now all gone into Virginia. It was almost in this like Patrol where we spoke

to the other military personnel and they said that they were told orders by the general to go into Virginia and just wait for other orders but be in the town of Virginia because it could have sprinkled everywhere exactly maybe they need to find they need to find if if evidence of this unidentified flying object fell from the sky and other places beside this main crash site, we need to find it. Yeah, and they compartmentalized it. They didn't tell them what they were looking for. They just said, just patrol here

and we'll tell you when to come in or what to do, whatever. And what ended up happening is this patrol vehicle had left the base of ESA and it was just patrolling around. They were like, all right, we need you to go to the main hospital in Virginia. So the driver at the time, his name was, what was it? There was, I forgot the other driver.

There's another driver. His name is, oh, I'm totally blanking. So Tony Montana. Tony Montana. I'm mixing it because there was two incidences, so I probably have to tell them both. I'll tell the first one and the second one. So the second one is the most compelling. The first one is another great interview, but it makes sense to tell it in this case because of the context.

But this guy, I don't remember his name. It's a Brazilian name. And he's driving the vehicle, and they're driving around Virginia, and he gets told to go to the hospital. So he goes to the hospital, arrives on site and he says, the highest military officials of Brazil were at this hospital. Police were there, like something crazy was going down. And he gets out of the vehicle

and he walks into the hospital and he says like, it's just kind of, there's no like civilians there, it's just military. And he goes and he was walking around and he sees this operation room and he walks in. And when when he walks and he peeks in and this is what he says is that he sees a box imagine a box that could fit a three it's like a three by three box that what's in the box what's in the box and you can imagine it could fit a child like whatever, right? And all the highest military personnel are around the box looking down.

And this guy is like, what the hell is this? He's the driver of the vehicle. He's like, let me go see what this is. And then he walks over there and he says something is covered. Imagine covered with a blanket or something. Wait, walks over where? To the box. And where is it again in the room?

It's in the middle of the room. And all the highest military personnel are surrounding it, looking down. He sees the general. He sees his own commander that usually stays on base. Very weird type scene going on. How many approximately? Can't tell you. I don't remember that.

Okay. It's definitely multiple. Yeah, definitely multiple. And then when he gets to the box, he looks down. he sees, like, it's covered in a blanket or something. But the knee is exposed. And he sees a V-shaped foot. And he says it looked like a burnt man. Kind of the same description as the girls. He says it looked like a burnt man, like, oily, grayish skin.

And he screamed, what the fuck is that? And the general, Solomon, is is like get him out of here leave right now screamed at him like you you're not supposed to be here so he leaves the room gets out goes back to his vehicle he's like what is going on and then what ends up happening is some military guys open up the back of the of his truck because his is the main truck that's supposed to carry packages or whatever you carry the military or some yeah like it's supposed to be carrying like boxes you know just equipment around and what ends up happening is he sees the box is getting put in his truck and he says that he then was told direct orders go to the base of essa park the car in reverse and you're going to guard this

you're going to guard the truck all night stay awake and do not go into the back okay let's back up for a second yeah so the guy who's ordered to go down to the hospital for whatever reason shows up walks in how do you get back to the room again that they were in he was told to go there? No, no. He was just walking in. He went inside himself because he wanted to see what was going on. How big is the hospital? It's not a big hospital. It's a smaller hospital. Which is also believable. When you go to some of these foreign countries, they literally have these spread out

smaller hospitals in many cases. He walks into a small hospital, so there's not a fuck ton of rooms in there. He sees the light down the hallway or something walks towards it you know straight out of the movie walks in here's johnny whatever they're all standing around this corpse thing with the light coming out of the box like stunned yeah he goes what the fuck is that they go get him out of here so now the guy who is not a senior general no nothing he's a private he's a private

he's a little pleb right as matt kimonos would say doesn't own bitcoin but anyway i love what he says that shit is so funny but he sees this they order him out he goes back to his hummer that is gas guzzler and is destroying our climate and they somehow come out and they open his trunk and these generals who just saw him happen upon that scene the little private who should not have seen that their next action is to now take this creature that no one's supposed to know about and put it in the car of the guy who just screamed what the fuck is that because he was supposed to come to pick up the package. Oh, so he was there for that.

But he didn't know what he was getting. He was just supposed to arrive and pick it up. So like, again, compartmentalized. They made sure that most of the privates had no idea what was going on. And I'm guessing what they were hoping is that he would park the car, stay put, they put it in, he would guard it all night, and that would be it. But he ended up going inside and seeing it.

So he saw. Let's review the unidentified burning man guy. And how old is this private now? He's like in his 40s. Late 40s. Alright we're going to get back to him in a minute. So he's in his 20s. Early 20s.

Mid 20s when this is going on. Sees this object. Described it as having knees. Yeah, he said it had a weird knee and it had an oily gray skin and it had a V-shaped foot. And he didn't see the face. It was covered. No, it was covered. It was like imagine you had a blanket covering yourself, but you don't cover your leg.

It was missed. It wasn't covered well blanket covering yourself, but you don't cover your leg. Like it was like, it was missed. It wasn't covered well. The foot. Was it like a hoof? Or was it like a foot? It's just described as being V-shaped like that. V-shaped. But is the V, does it have fingernails?

Or does it look like a cow? It was in Portuguese. I, once the film comes out, there's great detail on it. Okay. But I was given the quick synopsis of what happened. I'm like, no way. This is crazy. And to be be clear you're also about to go up because this i want to say this give you some credit this is wild you you went from guy who was bothering him to get there to being given a role and you show up and then he didn't expect you to show up and you're supposed

to be coffee boy but you turn into a producer of this thing it It's fucking wild. So you're going up to Vermont to edit this for like a month or some shit with him, right? Yeah, we're going to go. Okay, and it's going to come out this year. Yeah, supposedly in April, but he wants to make this thing amazing and he wants to put the great time in it to make sure that it's a quality project.

Yeah, I was very impressed with his last documentary. So it might be April, but it might also be May, it might be June. I think June also be May. It might be June. I think June would be the latest. Let's call it December. All right. So it's coming out this year. He...

How do I want to go with this? Because I need to see it, too. We all got to see it. Everyone here has got to see it. But where we can poke all the holes ahead of time because i know he likes this too the girls who saw it because the first guy so say he didn't see it he just saw the ufo yeah he didn't see any creatures the girls who saw it said it was you described it it was a muscleless i don't know if you said i don't want the to put words in your mouth. No. Limbless. No, that was Zimbabwe. So for this one, they described it as having actually three types of horn bending over.

Bending over with his hands. And it had like three, not like horns, but like divots. Everybody who's seen a leprechaun say yeah! If you know, you fucking know. Yeah. All right, so. And it had big, and I think it was red eyes. It was described as having red eyes for this one.

Oh, it's got the red eyes thing going. And it was bending over, so they didn't know whether it looked childlike or not. I don't remember what they said on that. But it was bent over like crouching. And when they looked at it, I forgot to mention this detail, that the girl said it looked like it was scared, like it was terrified. So they did see the face because it looked at them. Yes. they looked at it i forgot to mention this detail that the girl said it looked like it was scared like it was terrified so they did see the face because it looked at them yes they looked at them now how did they they described the horns did they describe the eyes or the nasal whatever the fuck mouth all that shit they explain all that in the movie yeah they explain in the

movie yeah they explain it and i explain it now yeah i i don't remember exactly the details we had them draw it the details we had them draw it specifically and we had them explain what they saw like all independently and they all did that once again i say everybody you see a lip icon say yeah yeah i'm gonna put that if you know you know but i'm putting the picture in the corner for people that want to take a trip down memory lane greatest drawing of all time anyway. So that's the third story. So closing that one out. Where did you interview this guy?

So we interviewed, wait, which one? Sosa or the guy? Military guy. Okay. Military guy. The military guy. That's actually a crazy story would end up happening. So he originally said no. He didn't want to do the documentary.

But James. Did he threaten you? He didn't threaten us. Okay. He just said he was scared. He was terrified. He didn't want to do the documentary but james threatened you he didn't threaten us okay he just said he was scared he was terrified he didn't want to do it and we were offering money to do it and he kept saying no no no and eventually whatever happened again i'm a production assistant so i don't know what happened but it ended up transpiring into a interview he was like i'm open to have an interview but i don't my face shown and if we're going to do it we're going to do it in an undisclosed location does he have the

voice thing he's going to have the voice there everything we filmed them from the back you won't see his face it's probably any back there talking so skeptics so that's baby yeah so then what ended up happening is we decide to go drive two hours to this place where there's this hotel. We're going to meet at this hotel. We met at the hotel. We meet up with him. We get a hotel room. And essentially, we create the whole scene to have the interview because he just, again, this guy is terrified.

How did he arrive there? So this is actually kind of funny. But James is like, stay in the car and like take care of the car. And what ended up happening is when he arrived, James isames like i'll call you up to like help us out he ended up forgetting to call me he forgot to get me to go up there because what happened is hoping you were gonna leave can't get rid of him this guy is still here he's got alligator blood and i stay there bumping eminem in the car but then what ended up happening is that he arrived and then they get into the hotel room right and james has said like everything happened so quickly that

he wanted to make sure this interview was going to happen because this guy again he kept saying like i don't know how i feel about this so they set it up and did he arrive but a serious question did he come in and like the front parking lot and just like drive up park his car and walk in or he came with his friend yeah he came with his friend in the car they parked so he didn't like walk through the kitchen and like no no no no parks in the front parking lot walked in got into the hotel room when they got into the hotel room they locked it up and essentially they conducted the whole interview it'll be in the documentary and they have it set up where they're interviewing from the back so you can't see his face he's wearing his military cap and he's essentially

going through this whole story and his friend that was there like because i went up finally afterwards because we have to make him sign these documents to say like all right it's okay to have you in the film and his friend was like what the hell like marco was like translating for me at the time being like what's this guy saying right now to his friend he's saying like what the hell why don't you tell me and it was his cousin and his cousin was like why don't you tell me this he's like dude you would think i'm crazy i don't want to tell you these things like this story i wish it never happened to me i wish it never happened like i wish i would never want this on my worst enemy like this is just a crazy thing that happened to me and like the way he told this

like this is going to be the first time i tell this on camera and it's going to be the last time i'm never going to do this ever again so it was like we had to get to a part two Tell parts I'm kidding So then we had that interview with him and he told us that entire story and then again going back and now you guys gonna Hear back. So when he parked in reverse and he's guarded all night the next day a Black hop chopper an American black hot chocolate just review because we went on a side there i want to make sure people again follow where we're at so this once again we know this part but this was the guy who was who walked in and was told to guard you know little gray man and he did not

see the face because it was covered by a towel they put it in his trunk he doesn't look i guess he's like scared shitless and where did he take take it again? They took it to the base called Camp Essa. So he pulls in the car to Camp Essa. Yeah. The climate change Hummer thing. And then when he pulls in, he sits in the car for the night. All night. No, not in the car.

All night he's outside with his gun protecting the car. Standing outside. Now, is this inside the base? Inside the base. Is the base like one of those outdoor bases that has all the buildings around or is it like he's in a building no it's the first one you described building an outdoor parking everything it's it's blockade it's protected and essentially parked it into a wall so it made it so you could not get in the back he reversed it right into a wall okay Okay. No one else is there.

Him and there's another private. So when he got there, there was other privates that showed up and they protected it. I don't know how many. I stand there with an AK or something. Yeah, some gun, whatever. And they don't move.

They don't move at all. All night. The general's like, you're not moving. You're going to stay there all night. Now, do they have a radio on being told this? This was told when they got the package. Okay, they get the package.

They park it. Pulls it up against the wall. Gets out. Other private says reporting for duty. However they say that in fucking Portuguese. They stand there. I don't speak Portuguese, so I don't want to fuck it up. But they're standing there with their guns, holding guard over Princess Diana's body in there.

I'm sorry. I can't help myself. You're ripping. The whole night. The whole night. They just stand there. Maybe they talk about the latest soccer game, something like that, football, whatever's going on. And then in the morning, who comes?

An American black hop chopper. Black hawk chopper. gets interesting so what ends up happening is this comes and essentially they take the package to the black hop chopper and who takes the package he didn't take it some other privates so he's now watching this happen what he thinks are other privates that could be agents correct yeah okay so that so he's standing guard i want to get this all right of 100 he's standing guard by the car and in the morning maybe the sun's up maybe it's not but hours later yeah privates come in and say step aside they walk in hut hut hut take the fucking package black hawk lands in the middle right out of a movie arnold schwaregger gets out, goes, get to the chopper.

Get to the chopper now. No, no, no. But seriously, like someone – who gets out of the chopper? No one. Oh, the chopper just lands. The chopper just lands and they load it. I'm telling you, Jeffrey Epstein was in this chopper. But all right, they load this thing in the chopper.

And to give you an idea too, side note, we had an interview with the people that work in the control towers. So we spoke to a guy who worked in the control towers who said they witnessed this where they said that on the radar, a Black Hawk chopper arrived. I don't know if it was one or two. That, you have to watch the documentary. I don't remember. One or two, regardless, Black Hawk chopper arrives from America. And he says that when he told his supervisor this. What do you mean Blackhawk Chopper arrives from America?

How do we? So I don't know enough about Blackhawks. Like I know it's always been an American thing. Don't other countries buy them from like fucking Raytheon or whoever the fuck makes them. Boeing, whoever. I was about to get there. So then what happens is he tells his supervisor, hey we got two unidentified Blackhawk Choppers coming like they haven't

whatever put in that they were going to arrive or whether it's the base who says this the guy who we interviewed who's in the control tower that sees the radar so this is another guy there's another guy there's a side note to this was this guy covered with the fucking face and all that no oh he's alive he's live he's like we're gonna find out yeah yeah exactly exactly exactly and what's up you should say no we're not but okay so that what ends up happening... You should say, no, we're not. So what ends up happening is he tells his supervisor, and his supervisor's like, don't worry, it's the Americans. They're supposed to be here.

He's like, should I document this or put anything into information, like write it down? He's like, nope, let it go by. And that guy said that's the first time that's ever happened in his career where there was a landing taking place, and he wasn't supposed to document it. He's like, you're not going to document it. Don do anything about it let them come they're supposed to be here they're going to leave after so that ends up happening they package it and the story goes the black ops flying to the sunset into america and we don't know where it is well we don't know where they weren't going to the helicopters no i can't even tell you where brazil is on the map

it's one of the big ones down there but it's not flying all the way to fucking America it's going to Mars it's going to somewhere where they're going to land it by a plane and fly it out of there but it flies away and so the reason I ask the American thing is because I guess other countries it could have been like in other countries Blackhawk

I guess right so it doesn't have to be America it could be fucking the same people who were hiding all the nazis for for the governments after after world war ii could be them it could be like some some wild sadistic fucking but it flew away the guy had never seen its face the only people who are recorded to see its face are the little girls and then whatever they're they told their mother she reports it back so never heard from again yeah and like i said i think it was one or two again i'm fumbling it because i'm a little hammered right now really yeah i've had a little much um i like it though fucking lightweights i know i've been drinking people i don't know

dude so ends up happening is i think there were two. And because this goes into the second story, because, yeah, there are two now. I'm remembering this now. There were two because there's two packages. Because the second package, this goes into the other story. And now this is about the one that you know of, of Eric Lopes. So this, again, this is happening in the span of a week or two weeks and eric lopes is another private military personnel and he is on the passenger side driving with this guy named mart tracy i think that's his name he's a brazilian guys he's a brazilian guy it's probably Brazilian guys. Eric Lopes? Eric Lopes. Lopez.

His name's Lopes, though? Yeah. He's Brazilian? Yeah. Sounds like he's descending from fucking the UK. Okay. Different guy?

Yeah, this is a different guy. Okay. Yeah. Oh, this is, oh, I know what you're getting. Okay, I was confused for a minute.

I know what you're getting. Yeah, yeah. Okay, go ahead. So this is another, this is the fourth story now. So I've told the one

about Carlos Souza and the UFO crash. I've told about the girl seeing the creature. And I've told about the military. The mother too. The mother too. And then I've told about the hospital with the military personnel picking up the package to the Camp Asa. Four total people. And then the fifth person was the guy on the lookout tower who was told not to document the Blackhawk.

That was a side story. Blackhawk flies away. Now we're on to number six six and this is a different one and this guy eric lopes who claims to be brazilian but is probably from the uk he's a military member yeah military and he's reporting what he's on the passenger side of the vehicle and what vehicle this is another vehicle like the climate change polluting one okay and when is this same day same week same month same place where I can't remember I I don't think I should say if I don't I you know I don't know that's fine good answer so when it's not the same incident this is not the same it's completely

different yeah so what ends up happening is Eric Lopes is driving on the passenger side he's on the passenger side of the car and Mark I think it's Marco Tracy I'm trying to remember but okay it's centered around him because what ends up happening is they're driving the i think it's marco trezzi i'm trying to remember but okay it's centered around him because what ends up happening is they're driving the vehicle no it's eric lopes who's driving and marco trezzi on the passenger side and they're driving the vehicle and what they see is they see a creature run across the street and what ends up happening is marco trezzi's on the passenger side gets out of the car grabs the creature and throws it into the back of the trunk of the car what do you mean grabs just like walks up and grabs bags walking walks up and grabs it

and could he see what it was yep it's the similar description of what the girl saw is this guy just a savage yeah he literally got the car grabbed it threw in the back and this is where it gets really weird is within a week he gets hospitalized with in system immune failure and threw it in the back, and this is where it gets really weird, is within a week he gets hospitalized with system immune failure. And we spoke to the doctor about this, so I guess now we're going to the seventh one, because it's all connected. Okay, hold on, hold on. Before the doctor. Yeah. I want to understand

this. Marco Cherezi, whatever the fuck, is in the passenger seat. Eric Lopes is driving. They're driving on some fucking road. Yeah. Nothing's happening, theyopes is driving. They're driving on some fucking road. Nothing's happening. They're just driving. See a creature run across the street. The creature just stops.

And he gets out of the car, walks up, and goes, you coming with me? No, the creature didn't stop. It was running. He got out of the vehicle and just grabbed it and threw it in the trunk. But at closing speed, it ran across the street. It ran across the street. They stopped and he ran and grabbed it and then threw it in the back but what's across the street woods sticks a house it's the farmland it's the farmland in virginia so he runs through the farmland because this thing obviously made the like they see it run across the street it wasn't running fast though it was like

running but it was fucking waddling yeah kind of waddling and he like we were faster for sure like as humans he said like it was easy for him to go grab it and bring it in. So he just in a split second goes, that looks weird. I'm going to go pick it up. That's insane. So he just goes in two hands. Yeah, that's that's how the story goes again in the documentary it'll probably go more description explain what happened but this is again this is like

second-hand information to me where i'm being told by the translator and obviously it's like it's probably not perfect but this is what i've been told and what ends up happening when they throw in the trunk is they take this thing and according to military personnel they executed this creature they shot the creature on the spot well this is again we don't know from marco charesi or eric lopes and i actually was explained this before but i forgot yeah but marco charesi what happens is he actually gets hospitalized for system immune failure a week later and he dies within a week and no one knows what the hell happened immediately immediately immediately deteriorated and died immediately and his sister has been incredibly vocal about this his sister's actually interviewing

her yep we interviewed her she's in the documentary and she's incredibly vocal about how unhappy she is about this because what ends up happening is the military took his organs without asking the family so when they asked for the body back they said you can have the body but the brain is not there the heart's not there the lungs none of the organs are there they've taken all the organs and she says what what happened to him what what what happened because she has no idea what happened did he sign that away no idea Okay. Good question. But what ends up happening is that she's asking like, what happened to my brother? Why did he die? What's going on? The brother said nothing to the or no, no, sorry. The brother did Marco Tracy

explained to the sister. Yeah, this happened. But she was like, I'm not sure like that really happened. But because of the system immune failure and him dying, she was like, this is all strange. And she's going to the military he's like asking what happened tell me what happened and they kept saying oh we're not sure like it was probably something to training he died we like whatever some bs story they try to make about him dying so that led to her becoming very vocal and in brazil she goes to all the ufo conventions and she's saying i want to know what the fuck happened to my brother.

And she's incredibly vocal. And she's like, goes on everywhere she can to be like, put pressure on the military in Brazil to tell me the story of what happened to my brother. Because she's still devastated to this day because her own brother died and no one knows what happened. And they weren't able to get the body fully intact. And they had, I assume, what's the word? They had, oh my God, embalmed him too so there's no blood in him. I don't know. I would assume they did that.

Yeah. So they can't like blood test it or anything. I wonder if there's another part. There has to be like another part like in tech like maybe a skin graft something something like that you're asking all the right questions as a skeptic i feel like you're representing them well like again most of the stuff i can't answer yeah and some of us you don't know yeah exactly i don't know but i'm just telling based on my experience okay and you'll know more when you go up to vermont in a few weeks and yeah and do the edit and exactly all the documents and stuff

that would have been nice to do that after too. Okay, so he dies. What happens to the driver? This is where the story gets crazy. We find out Eric Lopes is still alive to this day. He hasn't spoken on camera, didn't speak to anyone. In fact, he ended up becoming

very isolated. He became a drunk. He got mentally, apparently he became very depressed and anxious and he fell off the face of the planet. And we spoke to the mayor of Virginia and we asked him like, Hey, do you know where Eric Lopes lives? Cause you know, you're connected, you know about this story. And according to the mayor of Virginia, he was like, yeah, my father was one of the, was one of his superiors, but he wasn't connected to the whole UFO case,

but it was a superior of his when he came up in the ranks, when he was going up. And we know him very well, actually. And he's like, he actually lives over here. And we're like, no way. And this is when James did his investigative journalism. He's like, you know what? How about you go take us to where he lives?

Like, how about you show us that? How does that sound to you? And he's like, you know what? Let's do it. So after we had the interview with the mayor, we decided to go as a trio in three cars in the mayor's Mercedes, our van and the other van, we drive into the town of Virginia and we start to go off the beaten road into just this, just really rough cut road where it's like, this is like out there and we're driving out there we get to this dilapidated house there's run down and the mayor's like this is where eric lopes lives and we're like oh my god so then james is like start rolling let's see where this goes

no keep going yeah like start rolling this is this is where eric lopes lives so we start rolling i'm in one of the vehicles the mercedes is parked right next to the house. The other van is parked right there. And I'm parked in the back. And I'm driving the vehicle and I park it there. And I'm like, all right, I'm just going to stay in the car until James says something. How many total people there? What is it?

Oh, yeah, because we have the picture up above you. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven? Six or seven. And then two of you in the car? Yeah, two of us in the car. The translator, Marco, and me. Because the other translator, Fernanda, and James, and the cameraman, David E. West, and actually the mayor. And the mayor's eight-year-old son was there.

They went to the house. Sounds safe. Yeah. Well, that's what's crazy is we thought it was safe. Hey, they're built different down there. Exactly. So they go to the house, and it's parked in that way where there's a Mercedes van, van, and they're walking towards the house, and they start rolling.

James is like, start rolling. And when they get to the house, there's a guy at the window like this, sitting right there, looking down at them like, what the hell are you guys doing here? He doesn't say that, but he's giving that look. Is it one house, or is this an apartment within a complex? I can't really tell. No. So the house, that's the main house right there. And then this is like within a complex? I can't really tell.

So the house, that's the main house right there. And then this is like the parking. Like I said, it's dilapidated. And the other house looks like it's abandoned. Got it. And we're going to roll the video in a minute. Yeah. So what ends up happening is we get to the house and they're rolling it.

And from the footage, James is like telling the translator, Fernanda, like, oh, ask him this question. And the mayor is saying like, hello, how are you doing? Like, what's going on? Like, we're here to see Eric Lopes. And the guy's like, Eric's not here. You need to leave. And then he's just like, oh, we just want to say hello. And like, what's going on?

We have some journalists from America. And he says, he doesn't want to talk about the ET. He's not here. And we're just like, what the hell? Like, when he told us that, we're like, what the hell like when he told us that we're like what like James doesn't know that but all the mayor the Sun and the translator translator this comes from the translator translate this guy's saying whatever and the transit James is gone what do you say exactly no it's like we don't want we don't know to see the James didn't know that until after but

James is like what's going on but the translator is like what like we didn't even ask you a question and he's, if you don't leave right now, we're going to kick you out with bullets. And it's all on camera. This is all on camera. This is all on camera. And we're going to kick you out with bullets. And by this time, this is where I have my little moment of glory where I got out of the car and I'm like, you know, I'm just going to start filming because James is like,

you know, if you can, just film other scenes. We like to get multiple angles. What kind of camera? On my iPhone. I'm just filming. I'm just filming on my iPhone, man. Yeah, I go in in 4k i'm filming on the iphone i just start walking up to the side i'm like oh this is gonna be a good picture like i like this let's get this angle like totally unaware what's going on and i'm getting the angle of them from the side of this whole exchange taking place and essentially they keep going back and forth and james like james is like please please the mayor's bless us today. I want to ask one question.

And the mayor is talking to the guy. He's like, if you don't leave right now, I am going to have to kick you with my bullets. I'll kick you out with my bullets. And the mayor is like, we need to leave right now. Terminato, done. Terminato, done. And then Fernanda is telling James, like, we're leaving right now. And then James is like, no, no, no.

What happened? What's going on? Like, what the fuck is going on? I don't understand this exchange. I on i don't understand this i want my question yeah i want my question i want my one question and i'm videoing this i'm like what's going on and essentially he's like who was that and i forgot to mention this in the process like that's eric lopes because he said like is eric there eric there the guy sitting at the window was lopes yeah so at first he said he wasn't eric lopes and then he says like like... Who said he wasn't Eric Lopes? Eric Lopes.

But the mayor knows who he is. I know, but it's been years. So the mayor's like, we want to see Eric Lopes. How's he doing? He's not here. He's not here. He's going to kick you out. We just want to talk to Eric Lopes. And he's like, I am Eric Lopes. And then in the movie, I saw the rough cut.

Did we verify that? Huh? Did we verify that that's him i'm not sure that all right i want to know that i think we have a military document that confirms again i don't know that's going to be james you can i'm just a podcast that went on this trip with no idea what's going on but just on for the ride so james i what what's the story so there was there was a main camera there, beautiful,

big old camera capturing the thing. Yeah. And then you got out with your iPhone and started filming. Yeah. So there's this dialogue happening in Portuguese and James doesn't know what's going on the entire time. I don't know what's going on. And then what ends up happening is James is like, what just happened?

Like, who is that guy right there? And then Fernanda, Eric Lopes is like, that's Eric Lopes that's the guy that was driving the vehicle with the guy that grabbed the creature that threw it in the back that then died of system mute failure and now you have to leave because he's gonna shoot you he's gonna shoot us exactly like okay get the out and we're filming and he's pumped

that you're filming now yeah he's he's jacked up you can tell like he literally goes back into the house we don't know where he's going. So then we're like, all right. James is pumped that you're filming. He has no idea I'm filming. Okay. But then he films and he sees me. He's like, oh, okay, cool.

And then there's a sequence of him talking into the camera like, what the fuck just happened? Into your camera. Into my camera. Are they going to use it? They got to use it. Yeah, they're going to use it, which is kind of cool. I know. It's pretty lit.

So what is this video up here? So this video right here is what James posted literally the day of that happened and this is from the behind the scenes of us going to eric lopes house where he threatens us and we have better footage of it but this is the one that he posted that we're going to share who filmed this this is from marco marco was in the car with you yeah but he got out and. He did, but he didn't get up close. He just stayed from the back. He just started filming from there. So are we going to see you in this video?

Yeah, you're going to see me. I'm wearing orange. Let me read this. This is from James Fox on Instagram. I guess this is like a little preview promo he posted. It's at James Fox Director on Instagram, aptly named. And the caption says, Behind the scenes, the guy we came to talk to has been completely off

the radar for 26 years his name is eric lopes and was the military officer driving the car on the night of january 20th 1996 when his passenger marco carese also military police charazy charazy jumped out of the car and allegedly captured an alien with his bare hands. What a fucking savage. The two of them drove it to a local hospital. Maybe he's the alien and he's like, oh fuck, we gotta get him. The two of them drove it to the local hospital. Less than a month later, Marco Cherezi died at 23 from an immune system failure. We interviewed the doctor who worked on him and he's never seen anything like it before

or after the family of cherezi had been trying to get a statement from lopes to no avail we had the blessing of the mayor who made calls on our behalf to some high-level people to accompany us with whatever was needed now the skeptic in me is going he's like listen to these motherfuckers let's let's put on a show for him i wanted an escort to go and see Lopes and try and get him on camera for the first time. The politician whose father was a sergeant of police and he's known the witness since the early 80s took us to his house, which was off the beaten path, to say the least. When we got there, to my astonishment, Eric Lopes appeared through a window and looked down on us as we tried to get any sort of statement. As I don't speak Portuguese, I had no idea how intense things were getting. No matter what we said, the witness responded with threats of imminent danger

and then repeated that he was going to shoot all of us, even the politician. And also should I mention the politician's son was there. If we didn't leave immediately, and he still stayed for like a few questions. What a savage. The look I got from those who understood what Lopes was saying and how he was saying it will be etched in my brain forever. There's lots more I want to share when I get back to USA. And by the way, you said the mayor hadn't seen him for years, though, so he wasn't entirely sure it was him. Exactly.

Okay. And then once he said it, he could kind of verify it like, oh, okay. Yeah. And we have pictures. Well, no, he didn't verify it because he was like, we want to speak to Ericic lopes and then he said you're eric he's like oh eric like oh how are you doing like how's the family and he kept saying see pictures i need to see if james checked records and compares with the footage to make sure we have facial feature that i want the skeptic wants everything but here's the video i'll put it in the corner and we'll let it play right now

and the threat is that they might shoot us because we're on the property trespassing. We're trying to get answers. This is you talking. Yeah. From the car. I'm like, oh, they're going to shoot us, kind of joking around. Oh, that's the other guy. That's Marco. You don't get shot. I want to be there. I am in. You took a good angle up there. That was just whatever the moment was.

I'm just going to go here. Get out of the way. Okay. You're still standing there, they're all running away. You're like, huh? Because I have no idea what's going on. What happened? That's our sound engineer, Guy. What did he say? He doesn't want to talk.

He's leaving, otherwise he won't give you a ride. Really? Yeah. I told you. Oh my God. Holy shit. So when I said in the beginning right there, Otherwise, you won't be able to shoot. He's going to threaten us or whatever. So when Marco goes to talk to the sound engineer, he's like, what did they do? He's like, and in Portuguese, essentially he's saying, they threatened us with bullets. He's like, I told you guys. I told you. They're savages.

They are built to take that shit in stride down there. Exactly. So essentially what makes this so compelling to me is that we got threatened at gunpoint. We didn't even bring up the topic of ETs. And this guy is saying, I don't want to talk about the ET. He's threatening us with bullets. he's telling us to leave what the hell is my question well what you didn't capture on camera was as you guys walked away the mayor turned around and went i'll be back i'll pay you you're eating for the rest of the month on me i want to i want to see some of

this more proof but i'll admit man i'm i'm in i'm here for it i'm in for this shit and no matter what it's wild that you were down here a part of this process even if years from now it ends up being you know james fox is running a ponzi scheme for ufos and it's not real brazil is awesome yeah but either way like if it gets disproven like the experience and like learning from that and seeing what's what like you're going after it it's it's it's very brave what he's doing and what you did with him is very very brave because this is not this will continue to be a very taboo thing and like oh yeah okay whatever or you know you get threatened with your life or some weird

shit you don't know what to believe but it's it's very very cool that you got yourself through your podcast into the middle of this and went from you know the guy he's ignoring to the guy that he then lets come down there but doesn't expect to show up to show up to holding the coffee to fucking take a video to producing the editing and here you go you know it's it's it's awesome it's it's an amazing life experience. I'm trying to make things happen. Like, I think I just got very, very lucky. Like, at the end of the day, like, I tried to put my best foot forward.

I got lucky. It ended up working out for me. And, like, I'm just, I'm very fortunate. It just, it all lined up for me. And what makes this even crazy is, like, yeah, the creature part, yeah, everyone can be skeptical of that. I hope you're all skeptical of that. Like, I hope you don't believe it on first glance. i hope you guys go do your research and figure it out but like the the white house the pentagon has confirmed there are unidentified

flying objects 2017 new york time article that came out david fravor and recently again too right yeah they've changed the term to now it's uaps un, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. That's the term now. Fucking government. Whatever. But like one of the best accounts, which is in the phenomenon, is of – His documentary. Yeah, the documentary that – Previous documentary.

Yeah, the previous documentary is of David Fravor, which was a naval pilot that saw a tic-tac shape. Like that's probably the best account. He's compelling. He's been on a lot of podcasts too. Yeah, he was on lex he's probably his best on lex because when he's on rogan um this other ufologist director jeremy corbell um kind of interrupts a few times so you can't really get the entire story but when he's on lex he really goes down in detail every specific thing and lex i gotta see that i don't know if i've seen the rogan one of that because i again i've never a ton of those. I've watched a couple since you got me into it

but, like, not much. But Lex's one is great because, you know, he's this guy that's into physics. He's into all AI so he starts explaining details, being like, alright, how did it move? How did it take the turns when it did this shape like this? Like, he's very good at breaking it down. And that one does a great job because

you know, it's this naval pilot where this guy is very educated to fly one of these like shit like these f-150s it's like you have to know what you're doing right like you have to be able to be able to fly this thing fly it aggressively if you have to start attack get on the offense you have to know what you're doing you can't just all of a sudden just be like all right this is what happened but it's like yeah man like we looked down into the water we saw this tic-tac shape that was going in a direction like zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop, left, right, left, right. Like it was no business right there.

And it went from a few feet to a thousand feet in a split second. And then what happens, he's trying to trail this thing. So he starts to meet it halfway and then bam, it's gone. And the most compelling part of this is that when he's like, all right, now I got to go to my next point where I'm supposed to go, which is, um, I've got the term of it,

but it's like your cat point. We got to go to our cat point. The eventual point we're supposed to reach that object is that it's cat point, the place where they originally are supposed to go. And it ended up being there. And like, he describes it being like, yeah,

I got the EBGBs felt weird. Like what the hell? Like, what is this thing right here doing? And the entire USS Schmitz, I think it being like yeah i got the ebgbs felt weird like what the hell like what is this thing right here doing and the entire uss schmitz i think it was like everyone knew about it but then it was just like all right like yeah that happened but life goes on that's it damn it's another thing that's a search to give life meaning with aliens and stuff exactly you know like who's the alien among us who's who's figured out time travel elon musk i'm telling you musk and trump for wildly different reasons and tom cruise tom cruise is just crazy i don't think he's an alien i don't think he's smart enough to be well that's not really that's that's not a great statement there's pretty dumb people i

think might be careful careful so i told you i come after you yeah but he's like i think he's just a scientologist maybe they're all aliens maybe that's like the thing that the fucking bad author dude was like an alien yeah it might be like again my experience like i was i was there i was able to see this whole thing like i don't expect any of you to believe me and that's great you know that's fine be skeptical i hope you're skeptical this goes back to what we said in the beginning you know be critical of what everything say have that critical analysis but from my experience you know like it's pretty damn compelling what i saw and like i want to believe these people and i saw what happened but like you know if it ends up they're not being true then damn oscar award-winning performances would love to know why would love to know the explanation behind why is it's probably not as you know, if it ends up there not being true, then damn, Oscar award-winning performances across the board.

I would love to know why. I would love to know the explanation behind why. Because it's probably not as simple as they just wanted attention. There's more shit, you know? And look, that happens in anything. It's not just aliens. But it's clear to me, as I said, that something, some shit out there exists.

There's just, statistically, it has to. And how close is it how available is it to get here is it actually like we imagine it like we imagine all these other things that come true in art you know like we predict shit over time so how crazy is it to predict that an alien looks like an et as we put it in movies maybe it does maybe it literally looks like us i don't know but i'm i'm very locked in i'm here to say i'm part of the team you got me on it and like you know there's a bunch of people who are talking about this you know there's jeremy corbell james fox i i think james fox right now is the leader in this field ufology because you know he's such a skeptic and like his last film the phenomenon he brought on the late senator harry reid who just recently died unfortunately and he brought

on all these other military personnel were high level officials where yeah you know he's not just getting average joes off the street being like hey what happened like he's getting high level politicians being like there is something going on and i want to know why and he's like all right let me document this let me be able to tell this. And he's like, all right, let me document this. Let me be able to tell this to the people. And like, from his perspective, and it is a little bit corny, but I see where he's coming from. It's like, he really believes that this is something that is a universal thing around the world. We can get on board with the idea that if there's life out there, right? Like this can unify us in the sense where it's like, you know, we are one planet, one earth, that we can understand that whatever this thing is, we can come together and we can realize, we can put our differences aside and hope for peace.

I know that's what he's hoping for. No, that's a beautiful thing. I really like that. Yeah, and I love it too. I like where he's coming from. And he says the people deserve to know. It's something that is imperative. I can't remember the word, but it's an impaired it's i can't remember

the word but it's imperative getting late it's imperative that people deserve to know this information you know like why is it being kept away like again you can go into other the conspiracies but like is it trying to protect us like a part it feels like if we find out tomorrow ufos happen the next day no one's gonna give to give a shit, I feel like. People are just going to go on with life. It's like Epstein. I really feel like that whole thing with any of these conspiracies, just because we know, unless they actually had a public. We don't. Yeah.

But it's like even when those cases with Epstein, when they came out and he was sex trafficking children, he had an island. Like, guess what? Like, yeah, there's some people talking about it, but life goes on. People forget. Yeah. No, I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah.

I think it's a situation to situation thing. But human nature suggests statistically people will kind of go on with shit. I think we get desensitized to things. Yeah. You know, it's almost like school shootings. I hate to use that as an example, but it's like. No, it's true. It's like over time where it's like the first shooting yeah the columbine where we're like oh my god this is horrible i can't let this happen then there's parkland then

there's the other one the next one it's like when it happens it's like oh what state did it happen that's tragic all right but you know all of them yeah it's true and like we are like that i just think certain things that get to the literal meaning of life that are no pun intended an extraterrestrial discovery like certain information is too powerful just like i think possibly the truth behind Epstein, if it came to light and it won't. It won't. Like not until we have something that is the truth serum or something. The world's over, I think, when that happens. But it literally won't.

I want people to be prepared for that. We'll keep talking about it because if there's something we can do to make me wrong, let's be a part of the solution but it won't yeah like i think he was a i'm not going to get into it right now but we won't know because if i'm right and a lot of other people smarter than me who hold the belief that i do on him that i won't get into right now are right in general we don't know it but like we have like we're in the right direction it is a piece of information that if it were uncovered certain things would cease to exist the next day you know just like with jfk the cia can't exist if you actually know because they did it like it can't it's built on a lie you know and that ends everything so like with aliens if if there were i love how james looks at it because if there were

that discovery it's the one thing that now we are talking about an existential crisis that maybe threatens, maybe in a bad case, the human race. And suddenly we forget about races and borders and shit. We even forget about eating whatever animal or whatever. Now we don't want to eat them. We all want to survive. That's interesting. It is interesting. And I think all these topics of cults, these conspiracy theories,

all these ideologies, to me, it's just kind of fun. I don't know why it's like poking the bear where it's like, all right, these are taboo topics. We're not supposed to talk about them, but why not? Look into them. Do your own research. See how you feel about them. For me, I got the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to go to Brazil

and be able to see this experience and have that conversation and see these people and get to hang out with them. I got to see what that's like. End of the day, I'm still very skeptical. Yeah, that experience itself propelled me to think this, but if you tell me something about chemtrails, I think you're full of shit. You know? If you tell me you're a flat earther, I think you're still full of shit.

Like, you know? Like, this umbrella of conspiracy theory, it's thrown these things that are complete horseshit. And these things that, you know, there's maybe some validity to them under the same umbrella. And it's unfair because they should be treated differently agreed agreed and you got the once in a lifetime opportunity to come to the great state of new jersey as well exactly thank you julian dory i appreciate that of course of course jersey dude i love it it's cold right is that what we're here for we're here for the cold coming from miami where it's sunny and summer 24 7 yeah a little better i'll agree but listen man glad to finally do this fortuitous life circumstances bringing the two of us together

around podcasts which is cool and the name of your podcast by the way is the social league where can people find that you can find that apple podcast spotify and youtube it's terrific and i'm not just saying that because he's here. Like it's really fucking good. Like he has on, Alessi here has on people all over the spectrum. He's had some big names on there as well. And fucking you've held your own 100%. Like it's amazing what you're pulling off. So won't be the last time we hear from you in here.

But congrats on getting yourself into this documentary as well. That's a incredible experience to have and keep doing these things man you're you're on the right path more than pretty much anyone else thank you julian i know that this podcast of yours is going to the moon i am a full supporter of it and i i love and i appreciate everyone out there thank you for giving me the chance to tell this story i know many of you probably think that i am crazy right now but you know i'm glad i'm able to share these stories on this platform, and I'm so excited to see where this goes for you.

So thank you for having me on. Excellent. All right, well, everyone else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. so