Julian Dorey Podcast - Andrew Huberman's GLP-1 Expert Reveals Big Pharma & Peptide Lies | Dr. Abud Bakri

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

SPONSORS: 1) AMENTARA: Head to www.amentara.com/go/JULIAN & use code JDP22 for 22% off your FIRST order. JOIN PATREON FOR EARLY UNCENSORED EPISODE RELEASES: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey CLIPPERS DISCORD: https://discord.gg/8QmWEKJ3BT NEWSLETTER: https://juliandoreypodcast.beehiiv.com/get-julians-top-10-books (***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Dr. Abud Bakri, MD is a board-certified Internal Medicine physician, health educator, and medical consultant specializing in metabolic health, longevity, and clinical peptide therapies. He gained mainstream recognition as a leading expert on the biochemistry, safety, and regulation of experimental and therapeutic peptides. ABUD'S LINKS: - WEBSITE: https://abudbakri.com/ - IG: https://www.instagram.com/abud_bakri/?hl=en - X: https://x.com/AbudBakri FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY IG: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://x.com/juliandorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Dr. Abud, Gaza & "Medicine Lost Its Soul" 10:29 - Twelve Minutes: How Little Doctors See You 20:20 - COVID, the Thymus & Weakened Immunity 30:10 - Zinc, T Cells & Blue Zones Debunked 41:35 - Why mRNA Trust Broke Down 51:00 - Peptides Explained, Insulin in 1922 1:01:22 - GLP-1's Origin: Lizard Venom 1:10:15 - Pharma's New Target: Healthy People 1:20:00 - Sunlight, Melanoma & Cancer as Immune Escape 1:32:00 - BPC-157 and the Growth Hormone Debate 1:44:40 - Pill Mills & the Peptide Community 1:47:57 - GLP-1s, Dopamine & AI Horror Stories 1:59:30 - Why We Should Love the Sun 2:07:49 - Russian Peptides & Vladimir Khavinson's Death 2:20:14 - Epitalon & Soviet Research Lost 2:32:15 - Circadian Rhythm & Vegas Casino Design 2:42:47 - Black Market Peptides & Research Grade 3:00:22 - Where Medicine Goes in Ten Years 3:03:07 - Abud's Work CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 479 - Abud Bakri Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So you're telling me you got this organization nonprofit over in the West Bank? In Gaza, actually. In Gaza. Yeah, yeah. How long have you had that? October 21st, 2023, so now. You got right on it. Yeah. So what are you doing over there? So we are the only as far as I know, a telehealth organization that provides care of patients in Gaza. We connect them with doctors across the world. We have like 2,000 doctors on our registry, every specialty. They get instant access. We use WhatsApp

to connect doctors to patients. And then they get a prescription. prescription from us, they can take it to any pharmacy and we'll pay for the meds for them. And then now we buy a pharmacy or have a pharmacy there and we use that to distribute the meds to them. So now you've had it for about three years. Like how effective has it been? Obviously, because you're over here operating it as well. It's wild over there. Yeah. Like we have a bunch of employees on the ground there, pharmacists, guys that deliver the meds, all those things. I've never been in God's banned from going in. Right. You said, you told me your family's from the West Bank, right? So you go there a bunch. Yeah, through Jordan. Yeah. And are you a citizen of Jordan, too?

I do have Jordan citizenship. Wow. Yeah. How do I think, I was thinking about this earlier. I think you're the first Palestinian guy I've had on the show. No way. Actually. Yeah. But like, how do you, do you think that's even a solvable situation over there? Not what the current, uh, heuristics, let's say. I think, I think the two-state solution is a lie. It's been a lie for 30 years. It's a lie. Yeah. I think. I mean, I was 15 years old. I landed in the West Bank through Jordan. It's the first time I go there as a cognizant person, let's say. And I'm walking in the city of Hebron, small city.

There's a Jewish quarter. There's the Palestinian Arab side. And I'm like, this is impossible to split. It's in the heart of the West Bank. I'm like, it's impossible to split this up. You're not going to move out the Jewish settlements inside of the city, nor are you going to have the Palestinians just abandon that part of the land. So I'm like, it's probably not going to work.

Yeah, I mean, it's just one of those. things like even before October 7th obviously it's been going on for a long time you just look at it you're like it's so deep rooted it goes all the way back this didn't start in like 1948 or anything like that it's long before that and you were also telling me your family was obviously there long before that as well what was it your your grandfather was my great my great grandpa so in 36 there was giant um riots like there was killing going on my grandpa actually or great grandpa hit a family of of Jews in his basement cellar. They were going around, killing each other,

my grandpa hides his family. Until this day, we're in contact with them actually. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. The whole family. Yeah. Now what, like, do you guys have conversations, obviously about what's going on? Yeah. What's that like? So like that specific family, they're like,

they're more liberal-minded Israelis, so they believe in the two-state solution. Right. which I think pre-October 7th people believe in that. And they want what's good for everybody, right? But I think after the October 7th, things got worse. For sure. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify,

please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you. Now you were telling me, so your family in the West Bank, I want to make sure I have this right there, from an area where it's not settlements, because the settlements more happen in the north. Yes, there's settlements in. So Hebron is a city that my family's from.

That's where Prophet Abraham's buried. So holy to Muslims, Jews and Christians. You'll find a lot of pilgrims there going to that site. There's a, it's called the cave of the patriarchs. You got Abraham, Isaac, Rebecca Lay, all the matriarchs and patriarchs are buried there. So it's holy to both sides. So you'll find that city.

There's a Jewish enclave inside the city, which is kind of unique in the West Bank. Now, more of the settlement stuff you'll hear lately is the area between Ramallah and Nablus. You'll find a lot of things happening up there. That's in the northern part of the West Bank. You'll see, you know, problems happening between settlers and, and, you know, Palestinians. Right. So in running this organization, everything, like you said, you have people on the ground and everything.

It's an insane war zone, though, as well. So there's all kinds of issues all the time. Have you run into problems with being able to get your resources to the right people? and what's happened there? Yeah, so like when the war started, we had the Egyptian borders still open. So we would get meds through Egypt in to Gaza. Oh, you do it through Egypt?

That's what we used to do. Then the Egyptian borders shut down. Yeah. Rough house closed. So we couldn't get meds in. So we'd have to buy meds on the ground. There's a lot of hoarding that happens. People upsell and up price their meds.

So we have to, you know, buy it from certain places. Like a lot of meds actually exist in, you know, storage facilities and no one's actually accessing them. So we were actually able to get the meds out of the storage facilities into the patient's hands, which was nice. That's cool. So, but people are basically like grabbing these and, and creating a black market out of it. Who's doing that?

Local people. Yeah. Yeah. Every war zone, there's people that take advantage of it. Yeah, never let a good crisis go to waste, right? Might as well profit. That's fucking nuts. I know.

What a mess. It's a mess. What a mess. Well, I'm glad we can bring in to talk about some fun stuff today. Yeah. Some peptides. I got my box of peptides here from you. It was funny because Amanda,

and I were sitting here doing some, some guest hunting, like a month ago. Yeah. And we're just coming up with ideas for stuff. And she's like, we should really do a podcast on peptides. I'm like, fuck yeah. I don't know anything about peptides. But I had seen maybe like five, 10 minutes of your podcast with Huberman. I'm like, that's the guy.

So it's nice to have you here. But you are just so people understand your background out there, you're a doctor. You have your own practice and everything. You're also a younger guy, too. 33, right? Yep. And how long have you had to practice? I've been out of residency now for three years, three and a half years ago.

But obviously, like, you're a fit guy, you're a bodybuilder, so that's been the craze with peptides and certain facets, and now it's reached a whole bunch of other people. So we'll get into all of it today. Get some real education on it. You guys are going to watch me learn live about this because I really don't know much about it. But, you know, before we get to the actual peptides, like, was medicine something you always wanted to do growing up? Yeah, I think since like ninth grade. I knew I was going to be in medicine. Why?

The moment I opened a biology textbook and I saw the way the inputs and outputs work, I was like, this is something I want to figure out and know how to game and optimize. And it just was natural. Yeah, you seem like a really good people person too. That kind of needs a job, right? Yeah, yeah, it's good. You're helping people. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, the science part of it is very, very pleasing. I think medicine now has lost its soul, unfortunately. Lost its soul. Yes. Medicine used to be like this, you know, godly, humanistic endeavor. You knew your patients. insurance companies weren't involved. Now it's just about getting patients in and out of the hospital.

You could say in some ways, like when a patient becomes a Medicare asset, it's a little bit of a human trafficking game. A Medicare asset, that's kind of dark. It's dark because what ends up happening, like I'm an internal medicine doctor. So I do my private practice. That's my concierge practice where I take care of elite performers that want to optimize their game. And then on the hospital side, we take care of patients that are getting admitted to the hospital

with heart failure, liver failure, kidney disease, whatever it may be. So on this side, I'm preventing you from getting there. on the side I'm treating you if you are there. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So it's the full spectrum of the medical system. Now, what ends up happening is the medical system becomes in the nanny state and the retirement home and the drug treatment center for all these societal ills, right?

So a patient doesn't have family members around, their Medicare asset, let's call them. They get into the hospital. The hospital tries to get them out of the hospital as soon as possible. So they come in for a heart attack. They probably need two, three weeks to recover. We're going to get them out in one week. nursing home. They're going to be in a nursing home. They're going to be packaged back up. The nursing homes are a big scam. Package back up. That's unfortunate to talk about this.

And this is like our elderly people that we should be taken care of. Yep. But they get put into nursing home. The nursing homes are a scam. That's going to be like the next Netflix documentary. Yeah. I'm surprised they haven't made that yet. I feel like a lot of people out there are nodding their heads right now going to see that. By way, it's a great moneymaker for anyone who's entrepreneurial. They don't take care of patients at all. Like, I have, I have, a patient once they came in they uh had no blanket on window open it's in the middle of winter not too not too cold in california but this patient came in hypothermic to the ICU i'm like dude like that that's the 30 000 admission that we could have saved had they just put a blanket

and close the window oh my god well they're trying to toughen them up i guess yeah i mean it's like ben stiller and happy gilmore it's like ice bats right yeah yeah so this patient gets sent to the hospital they get packed back up they you know the er doctor gets paid the surgeon gets paid the cardiologist gets paid they packed them back up to send him back out the ambulance driver gets paid the nursing home gets paid again and then you just go back and forth everyone swipes their credit card on this poor patient and i'm like oh my god this is such a unsustainable system and then most of the the medical cost will happen at the end of life dude and that part makes sense in when you first look at it that obviously you run into way more health problems on the average

towards the end of life, but there's something so dark about like that transforming from when you're a young person, it's a very small percentage of like your monthly cost to you're an old person. It's like fucking 90% just to like try to be healthy after you've lived your life. Like in our culture in America, I think about this a lot. We don't have the customs that a lot of other cultures have about family living with family and taking care of each other with the circle of life. Like, I'm so jealous of like the Italian customs, the Greek customs and things like that. Like, there's just something in the fabric of what we've built here culturally. A lot of our culture I like, but like this is something that's a huge blind spot to me.

Yeah, it's a big problem. And then, you know, that ends up beyond the back of the medical system. If you have a schizophrenic cousin, usually, you know, before, that would be taken care of by somebody in the family. Now you just dump them in the hospital. And then the hospitals take care of them. They end up homeless. It's a really bad system for people. Yeah.

So. Did you know a lot about this? system before you started to get into it? No. I think every medical student comes in with like dreams of saving the world and helping their fellow man and being this, you know, altruistic person and then the system beats it out of you. Right. Yeah. Which is kind of a shame, but it also takes people who are in it and see it and live in it to be able to like come out like you and use a platform and explain like, hey, we got some problems here. Yeah. Let's fix it. That does feel like something that if there's

something good to come out of the pandemic. I've seen more of that over the past four or five years. I'd say so. I never really heard a lot like that before. Yeah, I think the pandemic accelerated the timelines on these things. Because I think the medical system can't make you healthy. Like, you can't expect your doctor to make you healthy. The doctor's there to treat you if you get sick. The medical system try to act like they're going to make people healthier through the government or through, you know, insurance models. They can't make you healthy. They can only treat you if you're sick. It's on you to get healthy. Your doctor's not going to be with you in the gym. They're not going to eat the food with you.

They're not going to make you sleep better. So that's why a lot of direct consumer companies now are trying to figure out how to fill that that gap. Yeah, which can get dangerous too. Yes. And it's a lot of a lot of grifters that get into the space. But the problem is like if you come into a doctor's office, you have 12 minutes on average with the doctor.

They're not going to be looking at you because they're going to be typing on the computer. Or like doing the low recording thing. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See me a few times. So now AI is helping out with that at least. But the doctor doesn't know you. Like before you, you have a phone.

family doctor would know your grandpa, would know you, would know your mom, would know everybody in your family would know your unique circumstances. Yep. Your doctor now doesn't know you, doesn't care about you. They're just trying to get home to their family and try to document bill for insurance so they can get the right code. Insurance denies the payment for the doctor's. The doctor is like miserable. So we've become commodified assets as far as doctors. Commodified assets. Yes. This is so tough to hear yes. It's true. Yeah, because doctors don't run hospitals anymore as much. The hospitals just be run by doctors now they're run by administrators that want to cost. So people have to take care of their own health.

Yeah. I've been microdosing something new lately, and it is not what you think. A lot of people refer to it as nature's wine. And the mushroom I'm talking about is Aminita Muscaria. You know, the red one with the white spots that's appeared in every fairy tale ever. But here's the thing. Unlike psilocybin microdosing, Aminita doesn't push you into a psychedelic headspace.

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Aminita actually does something. It's subtle at low doses, but it's real. And the only brand I trust for the Aminita Muscaria is Amantara. They're the real deal. Clean sourcing, no synthetics, no sketchy additives, and they actually educate people instead of just pushing product. I personally like take some of their Blue Lotus extract capsules before I go to sleep. It gives me deep, well-rested sleep, vivid dreams,

and I wake up without any type of hangover, ready to roll. So check out Amantara today at www.mastor.com slash go slash julian. That link is in my description below. And use discount code JDP 22 for 22% off your entire order. Once again, that's www.amintara.com slash go slash Julian. Link in my description below. So code JDP 22 at checkout. Yeah, I was actually talking with a guy the other day who is a doctor by trade and spent

many years as a doctor and was able to become the CEO of the hospital there. And it was like so refreshing to hear it because you don't hear that much anymore. Like you hear much more like there's the business guys and there's the doctors. But this is a guy who came up in it, gets it and understands how to solve those problems. I feel like doctors are really smart people. We've got to find a way to do more of that. where people that actually came up in the rank and file and like understand what's being faced, get put in the position to run the business.

Because like it sucks to say it like that. Yeah. It is a business. Like you have to be, there has to be incentives for people to want to enter it. And there has to be a way that things are run organized. So it doesn't lose money. But there's a way to do that more humane. And you keep referring to it.

I think we should obviously continue to bring this up. Like the insurance system is just fucked, man. I mean, we all know it from the pay. side of how much patients get fucked by insurance. But like, I think some that also needs to be talked about is what you're bringing up, which is how much it affects the medical field. So, like you guys, the professionals doing it. For people out there who are totally unfamiliar with how that might work, you mentioned a few minutes ago about, you know, sometimes doctors are trying to get things approved and they can't get approved. What are the biggest, you know,

two or three biggest problems that as a doctor you run into with insurance companies on a daily basis? Yeah, like compensating for imaging and labs. Like, let's say you come into my office, you want to check your vitamin D levels. You know, I don't think I get enough vitamin D. I can't order that for you and get it covered unless I have evidence that you have low vitamin D. But how am I going to know you have low vitamin D if I can check your level?

So then I obviously suspect low vitamin D, you know, depression, mood disorder, whatever maybe some kind of bullshit code to get you to, I can order you this $10 test maybe, $20 test at most. Insurance is going to build that for $50, $60 to get it compensated for the $10. It's a whole scam on that side. That's a problem.

And then let's say you've got to be. man like hey uh you want you hurt your knee you're supposed to do your needle working out i want an MRI i think i have an acal or meniscus injury insurance would be like yeah you know what maybe he can do pt first it's like no i'm pretty sure he has a 20 ACL he needs you know got to protect you hopefully you don't ever never need that but like i think he needs a MRI and then the insurance was like nah yeah didn't authorize and then by the time it gets authorized you're waiting two weeks for the patient to get the MRI and get connected with the surgeon the patient's four months out and they haven't got surgery yet that's that's really unfortunate especially if you have an hMO versus a

And then you also like, what about the percentages of like payouts and stuff? It seems like they're taking a huge Vig on the other end. So correct me if I'm wrong here, it's also compared to maybe 30 years ago end pay for doctors. It's way lower, right? Yep. Even though the number has gone up with time, it's not commensurate with the inflation numbers or the rise in medical expenditure as a whole. I said doctors. Like doctors when we're younger, we're kind of like the ballers in the community always.

Right. Not so much anymore. Like you take a pediatrician, they're barely paying their mortgage and their medical school loans. So see, this I take a huge issue with. Yeah. Because you guys also go to school for such a long time. You're doing something that helps people or try to try to. I hope that's why people are trying to get into it. Right. And it obviously takes a high level of intellect to be able to do the job. So if I'm going to have something even be expensive, which we all want to try to figure out how to bring health care costs down everything. But let's say it's stated. expensive for a minute. I would feel a lot better about it if I knew the money were going to the person who's actually putting in the time to treat me because it also incentivizes them to get better at their job and be able to spend more time. When the money's going to some fucking business somewhere that gets to decide this shit behind the scenes, it also disincentivizes doctors to be great at their job. Exactly. And doctors don't really care about being great because technically the sicker that you are, the more visits that happens. And it's not the doctor themselves,

like I'm not shitting on doctors. It's really just, the way the system's set up doesn't really incentivize good outcomes for you. And the insurance company knows they have you for three to four years. So they don't really care if in 10 years you're healthy or not. So there's no incentives drive outcomes. And if there's no incentive for you to be healthy, then who's going to make that decision? The federal government's not doing a good job at this. Clearly.

Yeah. Like I know everybody wants Medicare for all and all that stuff, but like that's not well run. I mean the government's running a system that's like not operating high level? Crazy. I never heard of thought. Wow. And I could go to the DMV? That's what you want the hospitals to be like that?

Unless Steve's mom's there. Yeah. She holds it down there. Yeah. Donate Dee at the DMV. I'm gonna move out here then. Yeah. I don't want to go to DMV again.

You're hooked up at the DMV. She shouldn't take any of shit. I wish everyone was like Donna Day. But yeah, like obviously government run agencies for some reason, you know, maybe a lack of incentives, by the way. Yeah. Right? Because they're all on the same kind of salary.

Like, why would you try harder? Yep. I did my training, the majority of it at a VA. So I was taking care of veterans. Oh, wow. Yes. What was that like? Amazing.

But partially because, okay, so the VA is terrible. They don't take care of the vets that they should be taken care of. I think the vets deserve a little bit better care. Luckily for me, the VA allowed me to have very minimal patients per day. So I could take an hour with every patient I wanted. Oh, that's cool. And helping on control for saying this. But Uncle Sam doesn't check who orders what.

The VA just covers things. Like, there's an insurance company at the VA. The VA just covers everything. Right. So I could order whatever I wanted for the patient when it comes to lab work, when it comes to working them up, checking, you know, cardiac markers, testosterone levels, getting them on GLP-1s. So I ran kind of a concierge practice out of the VA for these back-out-eyed events.

I talked to the VA kind of sucked before, but this has been great. And edit, he got charged. Yeah, yeah, there you go. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But if you're going to do it, like, by the way, like, that's a place where guys should have absolutely no red tape to be able to get shit. Yeah, no, it was great.

We got to do a way better job with our veterans. Like, I had a guy, he was like 300 pounds. He needed to get knee replacements on both knees. They wouldn't replace his knees until he lost weight. So they sent him to gastric bypass surgery. The bypass surgeon's like, hey, lose 10 pounds first. Show me you're committed before I'll do the surgery. Now, this is, yeah, I know, that's crazy.

This is 2021. Show me you're committed. That's wild. Yeah. Ozambic is about to get approved for obesity at the time. From the body, in the circles, we already knew it was working. This guy's like a low-grade diabetic. I switch out of all his meds to Ozembeck.

he loses 60 pounds over the next few months. He's like, I don't need the gas bypass surgery anymore. He's like, you know what? I don't need the knee surgery anymore because my knees feel better. I just lost all this weight. And it was a microdose, like a little, let's say mini dose of this medication. The VA paid for it and the guy had a great outcome. So you could really manipulate the system and make it work for you if you're committed to it.

Now, you're doing all this. Was that during, am I understand correctly? Is that during like residency? Yeah. Okay. So with medical school, obviously you do four years undergrad. Yep. You do three, four years of actual medical school. Four years medical school. Four years medical school. And then you do three years. Residencies three to seven to eight, depending on what you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. That's also crazy too because you look at expenses now. Doctors might be coming out like to finally actually have a job at like age 36 after spending a fucking million dollars or whatever. Yep. On education, they got to take loans on that. And now they're also getting less take home. where the insurance, that's nuts, man. Yeah, like the proceduralists, like the people do like GI doctors, they do colonoscopies, surgeons, cardiologists to get competent a little bit better than your non-procedural doctor.

But you're saying like pediatricians, compensate the least, that's crazy. They're terrible. They're taking care of kids. Yeah. They don't get competent well at all. And it's a very challenging job because like taking care of a one-month-old and a 17-year-old is a completely different job. It's like a horse and a dog.

Yeah, exactly. So these poor pediatricians. have to deal with all that. That's crazy, man. Because, you know, I also think that's, I don't know what your thoughts are here, but I think that's one of the problems incentive-wise in Big Pharma, too.

They're not, they make money on a subscription model. They're not incentivized to heal you. That's right. Yeah, and that's why a lot of these compounds that we'll talk about today, they come out of like Soviet research. Soviet research. Yes, yes.

So they were incentivized. No, Soviet research. They wanted you to perform better, to better astronauts. That's right. To better soldiers, to win at the Olympics and cheap. Listen, communism wasn't all bad. Yeah.

I'm joking. People starved, but at least they had great athletes, right? Yeah, we had good athletes. As long as it was getting to the people that mattered. Yeah. Like there's only two options to cheat obesity epidemic, Stalin or GLP. Yeah. Stalin or GLP.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. And I'm going to want, we're going to get all the differences between this stuff today because your boy's going to be learning it right along with all you. And then I'm sure there's people in the audience. who are very familiar with this and are maybe using them so you can tell them what's good and what's not. Oh, yeah. But when you were coming out and doing the residency, you're doing stuff at the VA, and then you were

also telling me, because Abood came and got a workout in this morning at the gym, so we were talking a little bit about this. But you were also telling me that you were like on the front lines of COVID for several years there. Was that from like the jump, like in 2020? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the first day of my residency, it was COVID. They're just throwing in. Now, so what are you doing?

So I was in terminal medicine. resident at the time. So we do clinic work at the VA. We do ICU work. And then we do floor. So we're on the regular internal medicine floors. So we rotate between those three things mostly. So like a few months in, we're on the ICU, intubated patients everywhere, people on the ventilators. Right. Yeah, it was brutal. So people, that was the thing. That was a huge mistake that happened at the beginning. They thought they were supposed to treat patients when it got severe with the ventilator and ended up killing a lot of people. That's the big discussion that's been like, is the ventilator killing people or were the people just so sick they were going to die anyways like there's the conspiracy world like

like when we had a patient like they're in the ER they're on maximized oxygen therapy they're on high flow nasal cannula which is like pumping 40 liters of oxygen into their nose yeah it's a lot of oxygen and they're sadding 85 they're like they're shorter breath they look like they're about to pass out like your option there is put them on the vent or let them die yeah so like they were put on the vent so i there's just like you know criticism of doctors and i have a lot of criticism myself, but I think at that point, you had very little options. Now, the criticism comes in when they were trying early ventilator strategies. Right.

They'd just vent somebody that was a little bit too early. They could have waited a little bit. I think that was a problem because they thought they could, you know, save the person's lungs. Yeah, the problem is, like, that virus, like, either you had nothing happened to you and it was just like a little cold or it got really bad. I think that might be related to some of these peptides we'll talk about today. I think it's also like, you know, none of us out there were virologists at the time. then everyone became a virologist, but you learn about one of the basics with viruses is that

when they start, they start the most aggressively because it's like, here we go. And then when the virus starts killing the host over and over, it's like, well, slow down because we need that. So you naturally get a curve. What they ended up trying to do though was it was like two weeks you stopped the curve and they're like, we're going to keep the curve the same no matter what. When did, like how soon did you start to look at any processes that were happening or how it was being talked about to where you were suddenly like, hold on a minute. I mean, it seems a little off. In early 2020, before lockdowns, we were in our last week of medical school.

And we were sitting in the back, like all the bros. And we're, yeah, you know, there's the bros, there's the nerds, you know how it goes. And they're like, that's when they came out and said like, hey, masks don't work, don't use masks. And we all look at each other like, for every virus we encounter, we use masks. Like, what are you guys talking about? I'm like, something's up. And they're like, oh, we were telling people that so they don't hoard the masks, to have masks for healthcare facilities.

But I'm like, don't lie to people. We're not stupid. Right. Like we as the public deserve truth. And you're not going to lie to us to manipulate. And then you've really lost my trust. Right. And then I'm like, that's kind of weird.

And then the videos that are coming out of China that you see on Twitter from late 2019, I'm like, something's fishy with this virus. And then the fact that it infects thymuses. And have you heard the word thymus during this whole pandemic? Isn't that like the thing up here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the only tissue that shrinks after puberty. Okay. So the COVID was attacking the thymus. Yes, and we knew this early on, and no one talked about it, no one addressed it. I don't even remember that conversation. The conversation never came up. Like, we had an immune pandemic. The first thing we should talk about is where immune system gets developed.

Like the gym for your immune system is this thymus land. Really? Yes. It's where your immune cells get trained on how to fight infections, cancers, whatever it may be. Can we pull up like a diagram that's the thymus so people can see it? All right, maybe let's start there. Yeah. Explain this whole thing.

Yeah, let's do it. So, yeah, the thymus, I think, is the most interesting conversation in medicine that no one's having. When I started talking about a few years ago, I was like, you're crazy. But now nature medicine, 2026, maybe you pull it's up afterwards. It's like showing,

it's a thymus study, nature talking about the importance of thymicus for longevity. So this is right in between your lungs, basically. Yeah, right on top of your heart? At the top of your heart. Yeah, when you're young, it's giant,

like it'll be this big. And then as you get older, it shrinks. It's the only gland that shrinks after preverting. Is this the thing you were telling me on Twitter yesterday? Epstein didn't have or whatever? He always comes up somehow. Somehow, somehow it comes up, right? Is that normal? That's not normal for him to not have one.

After death, so that was his autopsy. After death is shrinks dramatically. But it's kind of weird. Like, why doesn't have any thymus? That's kind of strange. But it, okay. So it does shrink, but it doesn't disappear. No, there should be some residue.

Okay. So COVID was attacking this. Yes. And you knew that. Yes. And they weren't talking about it. Not even the fouch. No.

And the funny thing is he's like, he's the most cited person on Thymus studies. Because he was because of his work with HIV, the other virus that effect thymuses. Oh, I don't know about that. So HIV. Because the T cells that we talk about come from the thymus. No shit. Yes. As you can tell I'm not a doctor. Yeah, yeah. So he was work, yeah, deep has it right here. The thymus is essential for establishing T cell diversity early in life, but undergoes profound involution with age and is therefore traditionally been regarded as largely non-functional in adults. Here we propose this study that I'm reading. The preserving thymic functionality is integral to adult health and longevity.

There it is. So I've been screaming this for the last few years on Twitter. Everyone thinks I'm crazy. And then this comes out. It's like, oh, no. Oh, this is recent. March 26th. Yeah, so I'm saying.

But, like, Dr. Cavanson that came up with all these peptides has been saying this since the 70s. He's a Russian-Soviet doctor that's now passed. So, like, we knew that thymus is important. He did a study in 2021 using thymic peptides for COVID, showing dramatically better outcomes. You can look this up. He's using peptides for COVID. Mm-hmm. It's called thymelin.

COVID, 2021 will become a problem. on PubMed. Were you tracking that when that happened? That's when I started getting interested in this conversation. I was more familiar with like the American peptide scene. The Russian peptide scene is kind of disconnected given the language barriers. Yeah, yeah. But lately it's been coming together.

Okay. Yeah. So yeah, peptide drug thymalin regulates immune status in severe COVID-19 older patients. Wow. So peptide drug thymalin isolated from the calvthymus is successfully used for the treatment of various immunopathologies, including those in older age groups, the molecular mechanism of the thymalin immunoprotective action is due to the effects of the short peptides k-e-e-we-ed-pdppies in its composition these short peptides can specifically bind a double-stranded

DNA and or histone proteins and regulate gene expressions synthesis of immune system proteins activity of gerontogenes and stimulate stem cell differentiation regulation of immunogenesis is a key factor in preventing the development of the psychotene storm cytokine storm is cytokine storm that develops in severe COVID-19. So hold on that one sentence. These short peptides can specifically bind to double-stranded DNA and or histine proteins. What does that mean?

So these peptides that are fragments of bigger proteins, they seem to go back into the nucleus of the DNA and they can activate or open up certain regions of the DNA so you can have more gene expression. So what happens is you get older, certain parts of your genome don't get as expressed. So like your eye cell and your liver cell have the same exact genome.

Yeah, your eye cell can see, your liver cell can metabolize things, right? Same exact genes between both sides. It's just different gene expression that happens, that allows them to be different cells. It's like a different key to the door kind of thing. Okay. And it's like the same library exists,

but then different books are pulled out of the library. As you get older, it's less resilient. Let's say there's the eye cells less IE, the liver cells less liverish. So then you get kind of these, you know, bland cells and eventually you get cancers that are like kind of the ultimate undifferentiated cell. Yeah, maybe I'm way off with this,

but there was this, therapy I was told about damn near a decade ago that I still see pop up once in a while called CAR-T therapy with cancer and I believe it was something like they would take out the T cells inject them with genetic material put it back in and it would fight the cells is that basically trying to like unlock the door here yeah so it's like the main stay of figuring out COVID cancer autoimmune stuff is figuring out how to reprogram immunity because I'd say that that's the big aspect of our health that's deteriorated over the last few decades as our immune systems aren't as resilient as they should be.

Why has that happened? Our lives are not commensurate with good biology, let's say. High stress, no recovery, blue light, trash foods. A number of things don't lead to optimal outcomes. Like, for example, the thymus produces a hormone called thymulin. It's a peptide hormone. It's the main hormone produced by it, it decreases with age. You need zinc for that to work.

So if your diet's deficient in zinc, you know how to tell you, like, take zinc for immunity. Yeah, I take it every day. Yeah, the real mechanism is that it's allowing you to make thymulin. So actually, if I were to check you for zinc deficiency, the first sign of zinc deficiency is that your thymulin levels drop even before your zinc levels and your blood drop. And most like standard blood tests don't check for stuff like this, right? You really have to order something special for that. So like on your CBC, you can look at your lymphocyte to monocyte ratio, which kind of tells you

the state of your immune system. You can almost put lymphocyte to monocytes ratio in almost any disease. And you'll get a study that comes up talking about how lower lymphocyte to monocyte ratios are associated with worse outcomes for the disease state. So like this is $3 test that everybody has. No one's actually looked at it. I've been tracking that for the last six years. Wow. Patients. I'm like, I'll find a patient. They were, let's say, in their late 20s, early 30s, they had normal lymphocytes 2019. 2026, they come in diagnosed with a new cancer and the lymphocyte count is half or one fourth of what it was in 2019. The question is, what caused

that. I can think of a couple things. Yes. Whether that's the infection itself or other other things that could have been multiple factorial on that side that these patients are now having these immune problems. Yes. So like there's a doctor, Dr. Patrick Shun Chong. He's the owner of LA Times. Oh, I've seen this guy. Yes. He's been he's been screaming this from the top of the rooftops. Like he's one of the only people that's kind of on the same wavelength in that T cells are going to be important. You should you need to have more T cells. He has a drug coming out called Activa that that's supposed to like hyper boost these T cells. So the idea is can you use immunotherapies to

prophylactically fend you against cancers and COVID infections and all these things. Preemptively. Exactly. So the idea is like if your lymphocytes decrease with age and not as effective, can you take a drug that would then boost your lymphocytes, then you'd be immune against all of these different things. Dave, what am I looking at here? You just?

Yep. Oh, that's the company. Okay. So it's Patrick, Soon, Shung. And I'm associated with them or anything. Okay. Go ahead. He's brilliant.

He was on Tucker. They were talking about his whole thing. He's like, I never got COVID the whole time. And Tucker keeps asking him like, how come you never got COVID? He's like, I'm T-cell man. Oh, he wasn't like quadruple vax? So he said, he said, yeah. He said they all took B-cell vaccines is what he said.

But I took a T-cell vaccine. I took this. So then I had so much immunity that I couldn't get sick is what his claim is, at least. So there's a lot of this like, how can we, you know, different converging trends on how can we modify immune function, whether peptides, drugs, hormones, whatever it may be to get optimal outcomes. Because if this ages before anything else, it's probably bringing down things. And that study that you popped up from nature, it found that people that had bigger thymises on CT scans had better health outcomes.

I would love to see a study that just pulls all kinds of general populations. And if we even, I don't even know how you would do this, if you even had the data for it, people that you had data on what their thymus looked like. Yeah. In 2019. Interesting year. Exactly. Pulled it now to see what the average decrease is.

Yeah. So like if you look it up, like we knew that COVID infected thymuses. This is a, there's a paper in 2021 that showed this. And we knew that we got CT scans on almost every patient every few days, every day sometimes when they were in the ICU on the ventilator. So the thymies right there on top. We're looking at the lungs. Everyone's ignoring the thymic right there.

But there was an association within thymic reactivity and survival from being on the ventilator. Wow. So one of my half office. is that the people that got worse COVID infections in their thymuses had worse outcomes. Yeah. And no one talked about that. We theoretically had drugs that we could have used to deploy to boost thymic health.

What kind of drugs would? The Russian drug, Phymelon. That one. And it was a small study, like 40 people in each group, but they showed that they had better outcomes. So it was worth exploring at least. Yeah. And I someone just said the word thymus during the pandemic. Like you get this key immune organ and no one even mentions it.

No one talks about it. Like I remember I was in ICU, 2021. It's my second time around. Rogan's ongoing like, hey, how can we're not telling people how to boost immunity? And I wanted to shout out on the rooftop, I'm like, because we don't measure immunity. Like, there's no way for us to track it. So the medical system sucks at this because you have a cardiologist that looks at heart. You have a pulmonologist that looks at lungs.

You have endocrine doctor that looks at thyroid and your testicles and all these things. Normally zooms in on immune lens. There's an allergy and immunologist, but they kind of focus on allergic to a penitist. A lot of time in those offices. Yeah. Did they talk about thymises? Not really. Not really.

But that should have been the focus. of a viral pandemic. And it was. That's so fascinating. And it seems de-evolutionary too, because the reason you keep saying 2019, obviously, is because it's right before COVID. And lives changed on the average, of course, after that in the sense that we went inside under lights like this all the time in front of blue lights like this and blue lights like

this more than ever before. You stuck people start working from home on Zoom in front of blue light. they're not outside as much. You're anxious. You're anxious. You're cordoned off from other people for a long time period there. And so you're killing,

you're literally killing your immune system just by existing. Yep. Every day because you are existing in a non-mammalian environments. Yeah. Yep, yep. So you're selecting for non-resiliency

and then I don't think people were... Selecting for non-resiliency. Yeah. That's a good bar. Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't good. We should have been telling people like,

How do you get strategically? Like we know sun exposure is key to immune function. Yeah, you were telling me that you care more about sun exposure than peptides. Yeah. And the peptides that I do like are the ones that regulate the circadian rhythm. And the circadian clock is, circadian clock and immunity

are the two things that are the age faster than the rest of your body. Your pineal gland shrinks before you go through purity and then your thymus shrinks right after purity. Interesting. Yeah. And the pineal gland produces melatonin. And your meltonin levels dramatically decrease.

If you pull up the chart, see them before puberty they start dropping. In fact, maybe the drop in meltonin leads to puberty. And then after puberty, your thymus shrinks from the effect of estrogen, progesterone, and then you get these two tissues that shrink faster, but some people are more resilient than others. Like there's a study where there's a 95-year-old guy

on postmortem autopsy, he has a giant thymus. And it's like, how come he has a big thymus and other people don't? And did that lead to a longer? Did they learn things about his life and habits that he had done? No, looked at it. That's the problem.

That's what I want. I was like, come on, guys, you should have asked. It could be a genetic predisposition. Because it seems that the people live over 100. Do not live over 100 because of their habits. They live over 100 in spite of their habits. Okay. Can you explain that more?

People live over 100 are more likely to be smokers than the average population. Right. And it's not because smoking was good for them. It's because they're so resilient to chronic disease that smoking didn't matter. In fact, they might have gotten some of the benefits of nicotine on some of the cognitive outcomes. So they didn't get they were protective from cancer because they have anti-cancer genes. They're protected from heart disease because they don't have a predisposition for heart disease. So the smoking didn't affect them on those two fronts.

And then smoking has some positive correlations between Parkinson's and dementia as being positive, anti-disease, let's say. So these people live over 100 and they're not healthy. But also like maybe I'm looking at this way to simplify. But like think of the places where you might see that. I'm thinking of a couple in my head, Italy and Greece where I've heard that side of before. I mean, I trained the Blue Zone. Like I did my training in Loma Linda because of this reason. I did Loma Linda California is the only blue zone and that's a disputed concept now in America.

Wait, blue zone? Yeah, blue zones are these like six places on earth where people are supposed to live longer, Sardina, Italy, Okinawa, Japan. It's kind of debunked, I'll say. But I will say Loma Linda, we had a lot of 90-100 years. Yeah, because I wonder, like thinking about the European ones, they live in a culture there that's way lower cortisol just right off the jump. They obviously do in the places I'm thinking of. they have very, very nice climates and stuff. So there's also natural nature year-round and things like that.

But even with the smoking, like I grew up my best friend from all my life as a dual citizen in Greece, right? So he would spend his summers in Greece. I got to go over there and I know his friends from over there and everything. They all smoke, but they roll up just regular tobacco with a paper and it's like a process. They're not chain smoking, you know, four fucking packs of mar barrels a day or something like that. And there was always not that I'm advocating like smoking in any way, but like, Like, there was always something about that and the laid-back lifestyle.

I'm like, I could see how this could actually net be okay. Yeah. You know? Yep. I mean, the laid-back lifestyle is probably the most important. Like, we're hamsters in here stateside. We're just running as fast as we can to pay the bills. Yeah.

And we don't have like a slow lifestyle. Like when I'm visiting Ananti and Jordan, it's like, it's 4 p.m. Let's get some tea. It's relaxed, kind of slow, live life. Right. Here, it's like 4 p.m. We've got to finish whatever we're doing for the day, get ready for the next day. Yeah, we went.

back to Italy again in June and the day my buddy John, shout out Johnny drinks, got there. Next time you're in town, you should definitely go on his podcast. He's got one right here as well. But he was, he sat, we sat down in a piazza in Florence and it was like five o'clock. And we're just sitting there for a minute. He goes, God, everyone here is just so goddamn calm. This is the life. And I'm like, the tradeoff is you can't do some of the things you can't do in America. But you're going to get way higher cortisol going after. So enjoy it while you're here. Our GDP is funded by human health.

Our GDP is funded. God, you keep on giving me these dark truths today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's true. Our GDP is funded by human health. It's funded by the things that actually kill us quicker. Yeah, we spend way more on healthcare than everyone else yet. We have a sicker population.

Drugs cost more here, even though we're the ones developing them for the most part. Yeah. So that's unfortunate. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. Did you, like, how quickly with COVID did you start to, feel like any opinion that did not adhere directly to the mainstream was very much silenced. The question is, were they silenced or were counter-syops allowed to spread?

Counter-syops allowed to spread. Yeah, because like you got two extremes. You got like the lot of the people that were mainstream. Then you had the crazy theories that were like almost proliferated on social media. I'm like, that's weird. Why are they blocking these theories? You mean the answers in the middle? Yes. I'm like, okay, this is kind of weird. And I'm seeing it in front of And the front lines, like, okay, we had our jihistia gym.

We all kept, we kept the gym open during the whole pandemic. Sue us, Gavin Newsom. We just put lines up and we just kept rolling. We all got COVID really early, the whole gym. We're all like, like, did you get a ban? No, no, we got, we all got a cold. Right. And headaches.

And we're back, we're back to action. You're back. So I'm like, oh, this is before the vaccine comes out and everything. I'm like, oh, interesting. For us, it's not a big of a deal. And they were like, oh, it can affect everybody. I'm like, okay, it doesn't affect young, healthy people. And then when I'm there, I'm noticing it's diabetics, obese people, that get the worst.

Like, that was like a functionally, you're functionally immunical compromise to a low degree if you have diabetes. If you're insulin resistant, if you don't have, you can't metabolize carbohydrates, fats and proteins properly. You're not going to have optimal immunity. So those are the people that got messed up. People that had transplants, you got really, really bad with COVID. Right, like Oregon transplants or stuff. Yeah, yeah. The amount of people that had kidney transplants that I had to put on the ventilator was crazy.

and then really old people. Yeah. Like we knew that pretty early on. We should have just doubled down on those populations rather than telling like every young guy that he had to change his life. Yeah. What did you think of like when the vaccine was coming out

and they were really pushing it? Because it was a real like looking back on it, that's a real line in the same moment for me. Yeah. Because I was just kind of from the world that like, oh yeah, vaccines are like a great human invention. Never questioned a goddamn thing. And then COVID's happening.

And I remember I had got. the Vax, I had never had COVID before that, then I got COVID really bad. And I was like, oh, this is bullshit. And so, you know, unfortunately, it just takes, like, realizing that you know nothing to, like, have something like that. But like in the medical field, when everyone's like, yeah, this is gonna fix it, and then you see it's not fixing people.

Yeah. Like, how do you react to that? No, because they had said, like, you cannot get the virus if you are vaccinated. And I'm like, that's not true. That's not true for- So you knew that right away. Yeah, because, no, we've never successfully

vaccinate against a coronavirus. Like we've been trying to make a like a common cold. A lot of them are caused by coronaviruses. We've never successfully vaccinated against it. I don't think the strategy of using an MRNA platform was smart. Like the adenovirus vector was the traditional way you make a vaccine. Take a virus, either make a weakened version of it or an activated version. That's a typical vaccine.

Now they're making it with this new MRNA technology, which is like why would you deploy that during a pandemic when people are already kind of not trusting? Right. They're anxious. Like, hey, wait for that technology to get mainstream. because that technology might be useful on other platforms, whether that's like anti-cancer things, other gene therapies in the future.

But I think it kind of salted the platform in everyone's mind. They lied to us. Like whether or not you're pro-vaccine, anti-vaccine, I don't care. What matters is like you didn't tell the truth to people. And then people don't trust you anymore. They don't trust us doctors anymore. I don't blame them for that because we screwed up a lot in communication.

We could have just tell people like, hey, we don't know. We're trying to figure this out, which would have been better than lying. 100% what's that like to deal with behind the scenes because like obviously you have a good perspective on it you understand why people don't trust the system now but it's kind of like you were saying a minute ago we kind of have these extremes that happen where it's like you either tow the line or you're full of shit or it's like everything that's ever happened is a lie just go live on your own reservation or whatever yeah i would love the answer to be somewhere where both of those sides can meet how do we make that happen after such an event like this yeah i think the If the good thing that would have came out of the Maha movement is if they came out and said, hey, we're sorry. Like, we screwed this up. We doctors screwed this up.

Let's apologize on behalf of the whole establishment. We're going to learn and get better for the next time this happens because it likely will happen. If everyone's thymus aren't as healthy as they are. The real immune consequences will be probably seen in 10, 15 years. Because the cells that your thymus makes today lasts you 10, 15 years. Right? They last 10 to 15 years. Yeah, the immune cells they make, the lymph sites.

So you have a trail of lymphocytes that can last even if it's kind of a long time. It is. Yeah. They live for a while and they get old and then they don't work as well. And your thymus makes new ones. Yeah. And as you get old, you don't have as much time as left. You don't make as much lymphocytes.

So if theoretically, if I'm correct and COVID did screw up people's thymuses. And that's why you have these long COVID syndromes and all these different diseases. Yeah. That you can no one can explain. If I'm correct, then in 10, 15 years, people are going to have really bad immunity and you're going to see a big spike in these chronic diseases. So we need to figure out this immune conversation ASAP because we need to be able to be able measure this this which MRI is now on you can look at people's thymuses or cc scans we need to get lab

work that can they can look at people's immune status um you can have functional measures like when it comes to getting sick there's like three categories there's like really resilient people intermediate resiliency and then no resiliency like people that never get sick right the virus hits them they get a a cough for a day and they're good people that get sick really bad but then they bounce back to baseline pretty quickly yeah you know those people like they get hit i'm kind of like yeah most of us are there yeah yeah uh i was there uh before experimenting some things, but we'll talk about. Then-

I'm shooting myself up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'll tell you some experience I've done. Then there's the people that get hit and they just don't recover. They're like down in the dirt for a while. And that's why people were like, no, COVID was just cold. COVID was really bad.

It's like the truth is like it depends on where you were. Right. Before you got it. It's not just when you got it. Exactly. And which variance you got and how many times you got it and then did you recover or not? So the proposition is that if you didn't have

So you have thymic atrophy whenever you get infection. So there's involution that happens over time. Your time is going to shrink. But it shrinks down during infections. So every time you get sick, you're hurting your thighs. Yes. And it usually bounces back, even sometimes bigger than it was before. But we had the concept of convalescence.

Like you'd go rest, you take some time off. But if you're sick, you're going to be back working. If you're sick on Friday or back on working on Monday. So you don't have time to recover, rest. Your nutrition sucks. Your hormone milieu is not great. You're not sleeping well. So you're not having the time to recover.

So you just keep getting sick and sick and sick. And like it, what I tell the, doctors, like, hey, isn't normal that you guys all get seven colds every year now? Like, a lot of my doctor friends, they get, they get six, seven, eight times a year. I'm like, you guys also live a wild lifestyle, especially when you're younger, too. That's what I'm saying. You know? But like the older generations, they were more resilient than we were.

The older dogs, they didn't get six, seven, eight times. Like, look at these pussies. Yeah, right? So, like, we did 28-hour shifts. They're trying to phase that out. So I try to phase that out. Yeah, yeah. They used to be 36-hour shifts.

Back when they were tough. Yeah, like, some dockers will be there for 72 hours. Yeah, that's kind of nuts. I do feel like there's got to be a better way because there's no way you're performing at a good level once you get lunging the tooth with that, you know? Well, I will say that is if you can perform at that state, you can do anything.

It's kind of a little bit of a hazing process. Yeah, imagine you're like the patient in the 28th hour and it's like, yeah, it was just part of my fucking initiation. No, it's happened. Like, one time I was coming on a shift to start my shift. I'm relieving the guy that just came out of his 28 hours. The dude wants to order five units of insulin. He orders 50 units of insulin.

because he had not slept. I'm like, poor guy, poor patient. No, but here's what really fucked out. I'm starting to laugh, but that's funny. The pharmacist approved the order because he or she was sleepy. It's the end of their shift. The nurse gave the medication.

So I'm like, how did you have three people? This is a failure of the system at every level. AI should hopefully fix this. They should have caught that. Oh, you went there. Yeah, I was going to fix this. Hopefully, yeah, I'm saying. Oh, it's going to replace us, but we'll see.

No, but it should, like, something in the system should just like, hey, 50 units of insulin is a lot. Like stop. like that should blink. Yeah. Blink red, be like, you sure. And three people screwed up. And I spent the whole shift just resuscitating this patient, giving them glucose so they

don't, they don't crash. So like, it's like, oh, crap. Yeah. That's wild. Now, you had said this earlier, but I wanted to find this before we get really deep into the peptide stuff as an internal medicine guy. Because I still, I've had an internal medicine doctor before. And I'm always like, well, isn't like most medicine like internal is an one sign and

whatever? But you were explaining how there's the treatment side and then also like the intake side in the emergency room. But for someone out there who just wants to know what do you do and what do you look at, what is a basic internal medicine doctor supposed to be doing? Yeah. Internal medicine is the father specialty of many specialties, cardiology, nephrology, pulmonology. So in order to become a cardiologist, you have to become internal medicine doctor first. Okay. So that's the path you take. So like when you split up in med school, there's a surgical side and then there's the medical side.

Right. Internal medicine is that side. Right. If that medicine is its own thing, you can take people in more of the clinic setting. Total medicine can be in the clinic setting or the hospital setting. You're taking care of complex diseases and a more general level without zooming in like a specialist. So you have to speak a lot of different language as well rather than being in a proficient

Jeffrey Chaucer. Exactly. And then you have to know who to call and when to call them. So like I manage congestive heart failure when I admit a patient. So like, you know, you ask what the typical day job is. day job for an total medicine doctor is you're in the hospital wards you're doing somewhere around 12 hours you're getting page from the ER like hey i have a patient they just came in they did meth they're in heart failure now can you take them in for the next few nights and take care of them get them

back healthy and then discharge them back to the homeless shelter whatever it may be unfortunately that's how a lot of these happen someone comes in on dialysis they their kidney um dialysis catheter or fistules not working anymore we admit them we call the nephrologist we get them new fish level of, like, we're doing like kind of managing anyone who needs to stay overnight in the hospital. Right. On the floor or in the ICU. So that could be liver failure, heart failure, pneumonia.

Those are kind of the most common things. Kidney disease, kidney injuries, whatever it may be. We're packaged them up and then sending them out to the world. Insurance companies are calling us every day like, hey, get this patient out of here. Like, why is this patient still in the hospital? Wow. That's all. So my job is like pushing back on that.

I'm like, no, I'm not going to discharge the patient. You ever get to like talk to these people in person just walk? Yeah, like, you're not going to do that, though. Yeah, I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it. Like, one time they're like, hey, you have to, you have to call insurance and get a prior off. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, the patient can stay here as long as they want. Because I'm like, you guys have figured out. Like, they want me to stand on the, here's how the system is really bad.

They want me as a doctor, spend three hours on hold with an insurance company to tell them, like, you have to get this patient paid. Like, the patient needed a skill nursing facility. They don't have anyone at home to take care of them. They just broke their knee or something. And they're like, you have to call and get that authorized insurance says they don't qualify. I'm like, I'm not going to call. So it's like it's a scam system. And it's such a bad use of your time.

Exactly. So I'm like, no, you guys figured out. And they figured it out. I'm like, but you wanted me to spend three hours on the phone for something that should have been approved automatically. Yeah. It does seem like you said it's a precursor for a lot of guys to become other types of medicine, but it seems like an amazing kind of job because you really do see everything at 30,000

feet in the air. Exactly. Do you want to stay as an internal medicine guy or do you want to eventually do another type of medicine that you're going to be qualified to do because you do this? Yeah, so like my original plan was to do like cardiology or endocrinology, whatever it was, the pandemic kind of changed my views on things because I want to say generals, I can see all these things. And then on top of that, like my private practice is performance and longevity. So it's about how do you avoid the diseases that we treat on the internal medicine side?

So I think that's where I want to put most of my attention. That's where most attention is now. But at the same time, like all these longevity doctors, they get lose touch with their common man. Like if you're treating Bezos and Oprah and all these people, you don't really know what the experience is for- Good name in your clients. Yeah. No, that's not my clients. Definitely not my clients.

You lose the ability to relate to the common dude on the street. That's right. You become kind of pigeonholed. You don't understand what's going on. So you need to stay in both worlds. Are you doing the clinic most of the time and still going in the hospital? Yeah. So I saw my privileges at the hospital.

So you got both. Yeah. So I do both. That's good. Yeah. Like you said, you kind of keep both right there. So you opened up the clinic, what, three years ago? So my private practice opened up two years ago.

We really started growing last year. Like, I've never advertised that I have a practice. People just find you on Twitter. Like, hey. That's how they kind. Yeah. It's all like, wow, like social media word of mouth. That's pretty cool.

After the urban pod, everyone wants to. Well, now. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, whoa. Because I don't want to advertise that I have a practice. It's on my website. Like, hey, you want to come patient.

There's a little box in the corner. How did he find you? Because you were for people that don't know, he was. obviously abood was on huberman's podcast a few months ago and everything but he was like this is the peptide guy so how did how did you become that twitter twitter is where you meet people man it's kind of crazy andrew here juberman discovering on twitter let's fucking yeah no he's been so good to me like shout out to that guy like when i had a smaller account he'd be like hey everybody follow this guy like this guy's gonna be the next peptide dude whatever i'm not the biggest expert but peptides

even though he keeps saying that um there's a lot of smart doctors out there definitely know a thing of 10 yeah yeah i mean i'm deep in it but yeah yeah respect to the OGs that have come before us. Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he's also, like Huberman's obviously, like a huge fitness guy and like health guy as well who's, I'm sure, very, very interested in this. So that's like a cool synthesis right there.

But let's start at the top with us. So peptides are obviously something that exist in the body. I think it would be great just to explain that and how that works over time for people. And then we'll get to these. Yeah, yeah. So peptides are one of the languages of the body. Let's say the way the body works is there's codes and languages. You have to translate to get the system that you see existing happening.

So that DNA is a language, RNAs a language. Proteins are language, peptides are language. So one of the ways you can write the alphabet is amino acids. Amino acids, there's 20 of them that our body uses. You find them in protein. They can put together in different strings. And the different code signals different things to happen in the body. Like build muscles.

Yes. You just tore it down. Yes, exactly. So insulin is technically a longer peptide. So, yes. Interesting. Yes. So it could be a protein, could be a peptide. It's kind of in between, but it's a technically a peptide. It gets secreted from the pancreas, the pankerous, the panker's puts together with

amino acids. It goes to other tissues and tells them, hey, uptake sugar, right? Got it. So it's a communication language between cells inside of themselves and then to other tissues. Okay. So when you're, when you are, that's how it happens indogously, inside the body. Now, when you take a peptide exogenously, you are now giving a new signal and telling the body to do something else. Now, can that have, if you take it exogenousously, depending on how much you take, how you, and we'll go through all the different methods and stuff like that today. Is there a danger with your body then becoming relying on that so it stops actually performing some of these functions because you're giving it something from the outside, meaning that if you stopped it, your body wouldn't be able to do said function anymore? There is a concern about that.

For example, with the GLP1 peptides are the most popular ones, Zembeck, Mongero, Terezepetide. They kind of like open the door to people really talked about this, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. And we'll get into how that happened. But those peptides, they activate a GLP1 receptor. Okay. Now, when you stop taking the peptide, you gain weight.

And the idea is it because you desensitize the receptor, decrease the receptors. And now you've come kind of changed the dynamics of the system. So whenever you perturb a system, you influence a lot of things, first order, second, order, third order. And that's where people like all these bros on Twitter, TikTok selling peptides, they don't realize, like, when you're injecting peptide,

it's actually natural. It's not natural. You're changing the dynamics of what's happening in the system. And there's a lot of consequences that you're not keeping an eye on. And so as in Trump, I'm talking like, hey, guys, what's up? Let's, let's look at this whole thing, what's going on and make sure that the risks are better than, the benefits are better than the risk. They also, that's the other thing with the black market here. They might be selling

Mexican cockfighting fucking steroids or something. Like, you don't even know what half these guys are fucking doing. Yep. That's a scary. I mean, that's got to be a scary thing for you with everyone coming to you and being like. If I walk into the gym now, I'm surprised it didn't happen today. Like, people are like, hey, are you the peptide guy? And they're like 18 year old kids like hey I want to jump on red out I'm like bro you're 18 what are you doing I wasn't gonna there were a few guys in there I wasn't gonna say anything because they had you to decide for like fucking 40 minutes trying to ask you about this but I'm sure they'll watch the podcast yeah but yeah it's like we'll we'll get to that for sure but it's also maybe I'm misunderstand

this but when you're talking about peptides that's a huge fucking label and they're because they could be way different things right yep there's almost nothing similar between bbc 17 the regenerative peptide and ozambic the GLIP1 weight loss peptide Do you have like a parallel for, is it like pasta and ice cream or is it like pasta and medicine or like The best way is to make it simple for people is like it's like saying supplements. Like you can have magnesium or you can have zinc or you can have omega-3. They're all supplements. They're the same category of ingredient.

But they're way different things. And they perform different functions and act differently on the bottom. I guess the best way to explain it. It's like they're concrete structures. The concrete structure could be a giant building or it could be a small stone, right? They're made from the same thing. They're made of concrete. But concrete could be a bridge

or concrete could be a little stone. Okay. So, but just because they're made of the same thing doesn't mean that, you know, they have the same utility. And in fact... You be the CEO or the janitor. You're working at the same company. Exactly.

Different jobs. Exactly. So like people act like peptides as if it means something. When you say peptide, it can mean 20 million different things and different risks, different benefits. Some are supplements. Some are drugs. Some are FDA approved.

Some are not. So there's a lot of discussions. We have to stop and stop saying peptides as a whole. I like looking at the subcategories of the peptides. Okay. Like the GLP ones, the Russian peptides, the growth hormone peptides and like regenerative side. So like a little, a couple categories we can go through. Okay.

All right. So what's the history of this? Yes. Exogenous. Exogenous. Yes. Take peptides. Exogenous peptides.

Like what's the full history with when they first started, where they started? I think you mentioned obviously Russia, but like let's just run through that. Yeah. So like there, we have known there's peptides for, for, for, almost two centuries now. There was a Dr. Alexander Gullovich that isolated carnacine out of muscle meat. He did what out of what?

So carnacine is a dye peptide. He's a muscle meat of animals and he isolated that dye peptide means two amino acids. Two centuries ago he did this? How the hell do you do? They had microscopes and they could figure it out. So like science has been progressing, right? So like we've understood peptides

are part of this, let's say, design of life. we almost 100 years ago we find insulin so they take insulin out of animals and then inject it into type 1 diabetes kids and have you heard of the story like the guy who did it like he had a group of kids they're all like on that's door by the time he injects the first one gets to the last one the first one's like up to life again whoa yes it's one of the cool so 100 years ago yeah but 100 years ago I don't even know his name we should we should we should you know shout out to OG I used to know this you imagine like having that discovery like oh shit I think I just think I just don't know his name uh I just you know this you imagine like having that discovery like oh shit I think I just I just I just I just just landed on something. Yes, yes. Because like you saw it, like these are all kids that are about to die. He gives them insulin and they're coming back to life. Wow. Yeah.

And what, by the way, I don't think I've ever asked someone this or done the research on it, but what makes someone be born with diabetes? You hear about how diabetes develops? Obviously, it's more self-explanatory, but is it just strictly, you know, a genetic deformity or something like that? Yeah, so there's type two diabetes. That's what you hear about like someone who's 300 pounds and they get diabetes in their 60s. There's type 1 diabetes.

which happens to younger kids. They're not necessarily born with it, although they have a genetic predisposition, but somewhere around three, four, five, 10 years old, they get an autoimmune attack where their immune stem starts attacking their pancreas, their beta cells specifically, and they stopped being able to produce insulin.

Got it, okay. So we just pulled this up, Deep, got it. In January 1922, Canadian scientist, Dr. Frederick Banting, Charles Best, and James Collep, visited a hospital, a Toronto General Hospital, filled with children dying from diabetic, Keto. Acidosis. Acidosis, thank you.

At the time, type 1 diabetes was essentially a death sentence, and the only treatment was a strict starvation diet, the only prolonged life by weeks or months. The scientists walked through the ward where dozens of children were comatose and actively dying. Oh my God, so they were like literally on death. Yeah, yep. And injected them with a newly refined pancreatic extract named insulin.

Before they had even finished injecting the last child in the room, the first children injected began waking up from their comas. This became, wow. The peptide used, they put in quotes now. Insulin is a peptide hormone made of a chain of amino acids. Another important piece of the history is C-peptide, a byproduct created when the body makes its own insulin. Today, doctors use a C-peptide test to see how much natural insulin a child's pancreas

is still processing. Yep. Whoa. So, great, crazy story. But it kind of makes the theme of animal-derived peptides. You get an animal organ, you spin it down, and you get a peptide out of there that you can have a therapeutic effect from. So they use it from animals. It used to be like that.

Yeah. So, they got bacteria just to make insulin and then purify it and then take the raw material out. And then put it between two centuries ago, first separating it a century ago, treating diabetics and learning that whole thing, it's now evolved into, well, there's way more of them. And now we can do even more so we can create more exact spots. to yes like for example my first exposure to this and you asked me like what got me to medicine is my grandmother she's diabetic uh very sick her whole life it wasn't for the medical system she probably would have died in her 50s you know thank god she had great medicine access and that you know dramatically improved her quality and extended her life uh growing up i saw her take the first glp1

medication it's called paella it was like yeah 2006 or so uh she dramatically changed like her cognition got better she lost some weight it wasn't used for weight loss at that point knowing you about that feature really besides bodybuilders. 2006? She did this? Wow. So Bayetta came out was 2006, 2005, I think. Yeah, biata is the first GLP1 drug.

It's the first GLP1 drug. It's an injectable prescription medicine used along with diet and exercise to improve blood sugar control in adults with type 2 diabetes. Yeah. So my grandma had been on insulin for a decade plus. She got on this drug, her insulin requirements decreased, her blood sugar was better controlled. All of her symptoms got better.

Then she got access to the drug. and then she got dramatically worse. She lost access to it. Yeah, yeah. She went overseas, couldn't fly back, got sick, very expensive overseas. Yeah. Couldn't get it. Wow.

Yep. So you're a kid. Yeah. So you came out. You're 13. Yeah, exactly. It came out of 105. I remember her taking the injections.

She's like, oh, this makes me better. So that kind of got me thinking about medicine, the JLP one wave. Now, JLP ones are isolated out of a helo monster reptile venom. You heard about this? A Gila monster reptide venom. Yep. Sounds like a comic book. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So if you look at the heel of monster, it'll come up. But the way to think about it is we've been looking for medicines and therapeutics for thousands of years in plants. And now we're looking for therapeutics within animals. For example, aspirin comes from the will of work. Right? Yeah, I think of it. Metformin and all these different drugs come from different plants. Even statins come from a fungus, right?

So we're looking at these different compounds that we isolate from nature. and then make them into drugs. Now we're looking into like human cells and animal cells and what peptides already exist to make drugs out of those. And those are very potent molecules with SGLP1s, insulin, the new peptides, thymus peptides, whatever it may be. Now, this heel monster would barely eat.

That was one of the describing features of what it does. It's by- That thing barely ate? Yep, it's great. It's like he's not missing any meals. I know. Exactly. That's why Trump said that.

Like, hey, yeah, you're taking the first thing. fat shop, but it doesn't look like it's working, right? Maybe inject it back into him. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. So these guys, in their venom, they isolated the concept behind what became the JLP1 drugs.

Now the conspirators of there is online like, oh, you're injecting reptile venom. Like, no, you're not injecting reptile venom. Oh, no, don't do that. Yes, yes, yes. You ever rearrange Peter Thiel's name? No, yep, yeah, I saw that. Not great. I saw that.

I saw you post about that, yeah. Yeah. So I always wonder how that happens, though, where they're just looking at this animal, like this hela monster. Yeah. And they're just like, yeah, the venom. They'd buy humans and humans

would have like certain consequences of that. They get septic, they go in ICU and stuff. So they're like, hey, what's in the venom? So some scientist was like, hey, I wonder what's in there. And maybe it could help people. Yes.

Even though it was... Probably took some mushrooms or something. Something's going on there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. When were they testing this for GLP-1s? Is that like shortly before 2005? Yeah, no, it was like two decades of research of development.

They make the first drug biota. and then Ozembic is like the third generation technically of this class of compounds. It's a little bit more potent, lasts a little bit longer, and then they got FDA approved for type 2 diabetes. Right. And that was a huge downstream effect, though, because then everyone started using it for diet and the diabetes patients couldn't get it. Yes.

Which that's an issue. Yeah, exactly. So what ended up happening, how do we get to this peptide wave? Yeah. The body bill was already talking about GLP ones for a while, before they were FDA approved for obesity. So the Ozambic was FDA approved for diabetes. Diabetics started losing weight.

So the company's like, hey, if diabetics are losing weight from this, why don't we use this for non-diabetics, right? So then they develop it for non-diabetics. They get that FDA approved in late 21 or early 2022. We can check, make sure that's accurate. And then the same compound seminglutide, that's Ozambic. Semin glutide. Semi-glutide.

Semi-glutide. It's labeled as, WigoV Extended. All right, English. Yeah, so semi-glutide is the parent compound. It can be ozambic for diabetics. Oh, just the name.

Got it. Or Wegg-O-V for obesity indications. It just gives them more patent protection. That's why they be named it. You know how that goes. Branding. Yes, exactly. So that comes out and then people start using it like crazy.

In fact, it's very expensive for Americans to buy that drug. Insurance in a cover at first for obesity, even though it was FDA-approved for obesity. So it's like $1,500 for a pen here. Yeah. People would just drive down to Mexico, pick up a pen for $150 bucks, and drive right back up.

But you don't know what's in it. No, no, no. It's the same pen from the same company, Nover and Nordisk. Oh, God. Americans have to pay more. Got it. Then the Mexican pharmacy that has the same drug.

That's fucking crazy. Regardless of what you're talking about here, I know people have strong opinions on a Zemik. But the idea that it's like this with a lot of different drugs or things that might be life-saving or helping people,

like if that's not the sign of like a broken system, I don't know what is. Man, it's like one-tenth the price right there. Exactly. And then that opens up the rest. So people start taking this drug. I get it when it's a 300-pound patient that's obese that needs to lose the weight.

The risks and benefit makes sense, right? Because there's risk and benefits to every condition. That's why I encourage people to think about that. Like, yes, there's a benefit, but there's always a price to pay. There's no biological free lunch. Meaning, like, no biological free lunch is a good point. We're going to come back to them.

Yep. but like random celebrity who already is like in good shape, taking it to lose another 25 pounds and look like a ghost, probably not a good idea. Yes, and the doctor that's empowering that needs to be reprimanded. Because like, what I tell people is like, at least have someone looking at your face when you get prescribed these medications tell you like,

hey, you should probably stop. Like you look like a skeleton. This is not, and we're essentially, like doctors are essentially empowering anemics, uh, anorexics. A hundred percent. To have their anorexia now. Can we pull up a Zempic face, Steve? Yeah.

Just so for people that aren't, familiar with that. I mean, it's so obvious. I'm like, you're not, you're not really hiding it. No. What do we got, Amanda? I was going to say Jenna Ortega. Okay. Yeah, so there's Sharon Osborne right there. She looked fine. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, she looks healthy. And then the right side, I don't even know what that is anymore. No offense. And what was the other one? You were, Janet Ortega? Yes. Who's that? She's, I think she's like a year or two older than me and her. Oh, no.

She's beautiful. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah, that's got to piss you off. Yeah. So that kind of misuse of the medication. The problem is like celebrities go to concierge doctors and the concierge's doctor just gives them what they want.

Like in my practice, what I end up doing is dealing with messes that come up from other clinics. Like a patient will come on, the wrong peptide protocol, overdosed. A lot of side effects. Overdosed. Yeah. You can get, you can miss. Because everyone just takes their protocols from chat you between. Like, no one has a love for the game that actually...

Yeah, my friend aunt started fucking injecting in his stomach. I'm like, I don't know who you should be doing that, buddy. It's like, if you haven't finished a little bit of math, basic math, you shouldn't be reconstituting. Like, these guys never did chemistry in there. I was like, bro, it changed my life. I'm like, how long's it been? Five days. Yeah, exactly, right?

All right. So, like, we need to have better stewardship of this. But the problem is now you don't even need adopters. Go online and buy this stuff, unfortunately. Yeah. So to kind of pick that up. We got Ozembic, FDA approved. It's a medication.

The medical field is kind of anti-exempt. to start, by the way, people don't really adopt it for the first few years. Well, also, what does it even mean anymore to have the FDA-approved stuff? Because I think the veil's been lifted on how corrupt that whole process is, right? Yep. It's a corrupt process because there's a revolving door. Like, if you work at the FDA during this administration, it's a good chance you're working at Pfizer and Merck or one of these other companies very soon. Yeah.

And then you're back in the FDA and there's a revolving door. That's a problem. Now, the other problem is the FDA is an antiquated system. for making drugs for disease states. Now we're trying to create drugs to help you perform better, recover better. How do you use that same process that was developed to approve cancer drugs?

Right. For a peptide injection for you to recover better after an injury. Like the same framework doesn't apply. It goes from life-saving to luxury drugs. Exactly. Yeah. Because for pharmaceutical companies,

this is their big proposition now. Before they could only, their TAM, their target audience, was only sick people. Right. Now the target audience is healthy people. So they've dramatically increased their ability to market to people now. And the whole conspiracy theory that peptide bros say is like big farmers anti-peptide.

Like, no. Big farmer wants to get as many of these peptides approved so they can market it and get a subscription model, get people hooked on these peptides. Well, my question also is why, too? Because if you really want to stick on the tinful hat for a minute and be like, all right, you know, if you're trying to control population and you make sure people aren't living too long. So if they're given drugs that make you live a lot long,

longer. Is there some sort of catch-22 there where we don't know enough yet? Because that's also the thing. This is so new. I've read stuff, again, very amateur over here, but with, with, obviously, I'm not a candidate for Ozempic, but I saw so many people using it. I'm like, that's kind of interesting that this is spreading like wildfire. But there's, there's been a lot of information that I've read where they've said they don't have long-term enough studies to know how this affects the body 20, 30 years down the line. Is that fair to say? So like, I'll take my example. My grandma took Bayetta in 2006.

That's 20 years ago. So we have 20 years of data on diabetics. On diabetics. Yes. Right. But on a regular person taking it. We have five years of data from when Ozzyic got FDA approved. Because like if I, I'm going to use a stupid example here.

But let's say, let's say there's, well, there is an optimal level of like vitamin D in the body. But if I decided to suddenly overdose on vitamin D for like five, 10 years, it's going to do damage to my body. Fair to say, right? That's right. Okay. Now I'm somebody who's really deficient in vitamin D. Like, say. And maybe I take the same dose five, ten years later, I'm at the normal level I'm supposed

to get. So it's kind of the same thing here, right? Yep. So there's a big connection there. On top of that, like, the pharma companies have protocols on how to get you on there. They don't have protocols that how to get you off. Right. So like when I, I'll mention off like, for my patients, I'll use a micro dose of these medications.

What does that look like? What I say is like this should be like, training wheels. Like, your life is stressful. You're a 45-year-old mom. You're so busy. You're 30, 40 pounds overweight. You've been trying to diet for 10 years. You failed at it. Let's actually get serious now and get you to lose this weight before you damage your coronary arteries, your kidneys, your liver, et cetera, et cetera, right? I would prefer if she could lose the weight without any drugs, right? I would prefer, like, if everyone never needed an injection ever. Like, I hope I never have to use a peptide ever or use any of these drugs. It'd be great if you just live naturally and be

free. Does that frustrate you, though, like as a doctor who's also like really in shape and takes us hell seriously? Yeah, of course. You know, like... Yeah, but at the same time, like, I have certain genetic predispositions that allow me to be in the shape. Like, we have...

My family has a myostatin gene mutation. My dad's jack... Myostatin gene mutation. A mystatin. So, you know, those cows that are built like giant? Uh-huh. They have two copies of that gene missing. Is this...

You were telling me about it? It might be. I don't know, man. It's kind of interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So... Yeah, exactly. Are you allowed to say that?

Is that, like, racist if I say... I don't know. You never know these days. I don't know, man. We're both going to cancel every this podcast. So if you look at the myostatin cow, the myastatin cow. Wow, this is real. You're not bullshit.

No, no, it's real. Mutation in the myostatin, MSTN, stops the body from making normal myostatin, a protein that usually limits muscle growth, which leads to extreme muscle increase and strength. You should have been using a heavy kettlebell this morning. We're saving the energy for up here to talk to you. Yeah, you see why. I'm gonna say, I feel like you're like that.

Yeah. So historically organization were used by white supremacist. Damn it. Steve, why are you doing this? You know, we're canceling the podcast. All right. So we got to bleep that out.

Sorry. Listen, you can't, I'm from Jersey. Just, it is what it is. But anyway, you weren't bullshit about it. So you have that gene. So, like, my dad has it. We actually know exactly who has it in my family.

They have way better body types if they have that gene. So, like, I get it. Like, some people are not given the same genetic lottery that other people have. So I get it that, you know, we should allow that. And the second thing is I don't think it's all their choices that lead them there. And I'm not absolving people of their decisions that lead them to obesity.

The life that we live is not ideal for human flourishing. And for certain amounts of people that leads them to become very obese. In fact, the people that aren't obese modern day, they're the outliers. Yeah, actually. They're immune to obesity. There was one little good piece of news. I hope it's not just because of like fucking OZempic, but last year obesity went down for the first time in what? like 40 years or something like that.

It's the gilpy ones. Yeah, yeah. It's not like like RFK came out. It's like it's because we change the seed oils. We changed all the seed oils and the sea. See, it's not killing fat people anymore. So they had to lose the weight before. That's pretty good.

That's pretty good. Yeah. So I would love it if everybody was, you know, outside in the sun, working out at 6.30 a.m., whatever may be. That's not the reality for a lot of people, right? I get it. Their, their mom was obese when she was pregnant with them. that makes them more likely be obese.

They're raised on a really crappy diet. They're eating McDonald's five times a week, whatever it may be. Light environment's not great. That's going to be the big uncovered two over the next five, ten years. Is that just your kid rhythm's big contributor to diabetes and obesity? I'm a huge believer in that now. Yep. Yep.

And those studies were like if you just have a red light on, you decrease your blood sugar, if you eat the same kind of food. So there's a lot of things to go into that and everyone just ignores. Like, what do you mean? Light can influence biology. Of course. Light is the biggest influence on hormonal outputs. And why is that?

Because the biological systems have to produce the right compound at the right amount, at the right time. If you get them at the wrong time, you get chaos. So, like, there's a certain rhythm that has to happen every day and then every night. And most people's rhythms are shifted. Right. Dramatically, thanks to light. Because we were designed evolution, whatever you want to call it, based on the sun and the moon. So when I had our mutual friend, Luis and Nicole in here, like two and a half years ago,

I was just starting a recovery. I'd been really sick for like four years with the acinophilic asthma. And I was now on immunotherapy. And it takes a while for that to set in. But like I was still pretty sickly and like making huge lifestyle changes. I went from for the first four years doing this podcast, I went to bed at four or five am every night, woke up at 10 and, you know, just edited in front of a screen all day in a blacked out room.

Not good for you. Lost all kinds of weight. I was down. I was 45 pounds lighter than I am now. Whoa. very sickly burnt out skin burn out everything so i made a shift overnight in one respect when i started that treatment to totally change my day schedule got back to going into the gym first thing in the morning going to bed at a specific time to help the circadian rhythm and all that but when louisa was

here you know she sees my place and she asked me she was like do you dream when you sleep i said never and she said okay well i live it she's like i live in New York City, you live right here as well. It's always lit outside. Look at your place. There's windows everywhere. You have sky windows. There's light getting in all the time. You got French doors by your room right there where there's just windows coming through. She goes, do you sleep with an eye mask? And I said, no, I'm not gay. And she's like, all right, fine. Keep having bad sleep then. You need to sleep with an eye mask. And I'm like, all right. And so I'm like, fuck, this is going to work. I got an eye mask, dude. I will never not sleep with one again. Completely changed my life.

I dream every single night and that whole circadian rhythm thing of like not going to bed at 4 a.m. when the body's not wired to do that and instead going to bed at 10, 15 or something like that could not believe in it more. Yep. More important than any peptide you're going to take, like your circadian biology is underpinning almost every health. If you put any disease and you put circadian rhythm next to it, you'll find tons of articles talking about heart disease and cancer risk and obesity and whatever it may be in its relation to circadian rhythms. And we're living in, we're the first, let's say we're the first three generations, really, that have lived with broken circadian clocks.

That's our grandparents, us, and our parents. So now we're having the biological consequences of that. And there's no real specialist in medicine that's going to address that. So a lot of doctors like, oh, that's woo-oo, what are you talking about? Like, you've been telling you to go outside. It's real. Red light changes your biology, blue light changes. Every single wavelength can change the way your biological systems behave

because we're trained to see certain wavelengths at certain times of the day. And that activates certain hormonal cascades. And the problem is, for example, people talk about melaton. Melaton is supposed to rise three hours about before you go to sleep. Let's say the sun sets at 7 p.m. You have no more blue light in your vicinity before you'd have candles or a campfire, whatever may be. There's no blue light in that's red, orange, yellow, very minimal amounts of blue.

It would naturally, yeah. It wouldn't be high above ceiling. It'd be on the floor, you know, right? Low thing. Within the next three hours, your melton will slowly rise, and then you get sleep and you wake up, refreshed. Nowadays, you're having blue light till the moment you close your eyes before you sleep for most people, they're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, turning off their phone, and then

start in the melaton rise, which now delays all the other hormonal cascades that are going to happen the rest of the night. Yeah. So you're wondering why guys don't produce enough testosterone, why guys aren't waking up with morning wood key biomarker that I ask everybody about if you don't have this cascade happening in order, you're going to have problems. Yeah. Yeah, that's the stuff like I pay attention to now as well. And like I know when I was working like, ah, this week, we've been working way too much right up to the fucking brim because it's not even if i'm dreaming and stuff and i still get some rest it's not like your body's not fully circulated that way so the actual window though just for people who aren't familiar and need to find when we keep saying circadian rhythm yes

what are like the i kind of hinted at it but like what are the hours here and and what's the science there yeah so the certain rhythm in your eye there's a receptor called melanopsin's the bottom of your retina that looks at 480 nanometer blue light that's sky's sky's right blue. Okay. So our bodies are trained to see sky blue from the top that hits the bottom of your retina and tells your body, wake up, stop making melatonin and start all the hormonal cascades. Okay. That is supposed to hit you first thing in the morning. The problem is our LED lights are very enriched in 430 nanometer lights. If you pull up the spectrum of LEDs, we'll see that. But a little bit poorer in 480 nanometer lights, while the sunlight spectrum is very enriched in 480,

especially in the morning. And that helps you start this whole circadian cascade. So the problem with LEDs is they're too bright at night and suppress melatonin, but insufficiently bright and of the right way of length during the day to stimulate optimal. Worst to both worlds. Yes, the worst of both worlds. Yeah, that's it. You got it right here. This is the spectrum you want.

Yeah, so right there you see the top left. There's the LED spectrum. It boosts at 430 nanometers. That's the big blue spike. And then 430 where sky blue is, eh, not so much. Right. Now, if you look at the picture right below it, there's the spectrum of the sun, I think. A standard LED.

Yeah, sunlight. See sunlight. Yeah. It's smooth. It has everything in it. It has a ton of 489 meter blue light and has a red and infrared and all the things you want as well. So I like these are pouring red and rich in the wrong blue. Got it.

Sunlight has tons of red, tons of infrared, the right amount of blue and not too much of the bad blue. That's it. And then we've also like between indoor lifestyles and stuff like that and vitamin D deficiency and everything. And I guess some wrong protocol calls on like sun exposure and stuff. we've de-evolutionized ourselves away from the sun as well and like made us fear it. I'm not saying like skin cancer is not a real thing and stuff like that. But we have as far as some of the science I've heard recently, we have increased skin cancer because we've taken away people from the sun such that their body is not adjusted to it

when when it's in it basically. Yeah. Because the other way to think about it is like, yes, skin cancer, especially melanomas, there's a risk of UV damage. Not melanomas, of basal and squamous cell carcinoma. Those are the less serious skin cancers. They're all serious. but melanoma is a really scary one, right?

Melanoma doesn't seem to be really associated with UV exposure. In fact, it seems to be an immune problem. An immune problem. Yes, melanoma's, number one, respond very well to immunotherapy. They're one of the cancers that respond well. Number two, in my mind, Dr. Patrick, all these people, cancer. No, no, Dr. Patrick Shunshong, the immune debil.

The way to conceptualize cancer, it's an immune-escape phenomenon in that your immune system right now is regulating make sure any cell that little cell is kind of looking cancerish, kills that cell, knocks it out. As your immune system gets weaker, that regulatory aspect goes away. Right. Cancer cells now can grow. Cancer starts to trick the immune system until, hey, we're friendly.

Like, don't attack us. And they kind of encapsulate themselves away from the immune system. So the immune system can't come in and kill the cancer. That's where the car therapy comes in. You're retraining these immune cells to come in there. Because it's very easy to kill cancer, by the way. Very easy. It's very easy to kill cancer.

It's very hard. So easy a caveman can do it? So easy a caveman can do it. The problem is you kill the cancer, you kill the person too. Right. That's what chemotherapy is. And I'm glad that immunotherapies are coming out now. Chemotherapy, you're taking the person to the brink of death,

killing the cancer, and then bringing them back from the brink of death and hoping the cancer doesn't come back. Yeah. That's exactly what's happening. And sometimes it works and a lot of times it doesn't. So these immune therapies are interesting because when they work, like you'll see people's cancers melt off their skin. Melt off. So wait, wait a second.

I'm trying to picture this in my dumb ass head right. now. But like if someone, if suddenly this huge black spot melanoma forms right here. Mm-hmm. And I didn't go in the sun for like a month, for a month, but over that month it just forms. Like, where does that come from? Uh, there's a lot of theories on why it's happening. Some them are a little schizo. But the reality is it seems to it seems to it seems like the immune system is not regulating the, like the immune system in the skin is not functioning properly. There's a, there's a, it just forms this build up of bad cells. Yep. In fact, there's a, there's a streamer that has got a melanoma on the bottom of their foot.

the place with the sun never sees. So this guy's a streamer, blue light toxic, indoors all day, up all night, damaging their immune system, gets a melanoma. Whoa. So that's a problem. Yeah, dude, that's scary to think back

like how I lived. Exactly, exactly. I'm glad the damage is only what I was. Ninja, Twitch's biggest gamer shares cancer diagnosis is March 2024. 32-year-old Fortnite gamer who has 19 million followers on Twitch said a mole removed from his foot

was found to be cancerous. He said the second dark spot on his foot was also being checked. And though shocked, he was grateful to have hope that the cancer was found early. He's urging others to get checkups. Wow. And then there's no sudden exposure. Do you be damage happening on the bottom of your foot? No.

Just tanning all there or something. Well, maybe you're fucking holding your feet up to the air. Yeah, I don't know. You have a foot only fans or something. But yeah, you know. You can't put that past the internet these days. That's right. That's right.

That's right. I'm just saying. Nuts, man. So anyway, we're talking, though, about the GLP ones and OZempix. So as Empic forms, you even said your grandmother had an early version of the GLP1 with that. And then it becomes the craze in like 2022. And then you start seeing all these celebrities use stuff, which also, I don't know how much you know about this. I know you deal with some high profile people.

I'm kind of convinced on things I've heard in the grapevine that a lot of these experimental kind of things, whether it's GLP ones, are entirely different things. Like, for whatever reason, the celebrities get them first. They tell them about them a while. for is that? Yep. Yep. Okay. Some of my friends that are that trained me on peptides have been administering them to NBA players, celebrities since 2017. That's when they come to the compound pharmacies. Yeah. So like this has been there for a while. And I told you earlier today, like, I've known about peptop guys forever. I thought it was going to be a thing in the powerlifting body building community. I never thought this was going to become mainstream. You didn't think

this would be mainstream? No, because I'm like, no one wants to inject themselves with things, right? If you misunderstand people's buildings, I'm, I guess I was wrong. Like, like, I was willing to do stuff to get an advantage, right? Like clavicular, never heard of him. I never thought we'd be with clavicular in this situation. I'll talk about that later. Yeah, yeah. You should get them on here and see what the guys.

I don't think so. You don't think so? I think I'm good. Okay. That's fair. I think I've seen enough on. I need some 20-year-old audits telling me to fucking cut everything off my body and inject it with new shit.

But so you didn't, you really, well, let's start here. When did you first actually start actively using them yourself? Yeah, so I started using peptides before I was a doctor. Before? Yep, yep, yep, I had injuries. I was a pilot after. Oh, you were an OG? Mm-hmm.

Wow. So I was using BBC 157. Now, are you like jocke in them or are you injecting them? Back in the day, it was only injectables. The pill stuff is new and that's the new. Yeah, deflikes it. I walked in here this morning, had him crushed up and was snorting up before we got on there. Oh, man.

Injured nasal peptides work too. He was excited. Yeah. It's like, I'm doing peptides. It's really cocaine, bro. So that's what you should do? No, no, do not do that. Not do that.

Not medical advice, but here's some medical advice. Don't cross-hugure peptides in the storm. Okay. So the JLP1 wave happens. I never, I mean, it was hard at first to convince people to inject themselves with something. Yeah. Right. But then they see their friend Stacey just lost 30 pounds.

And then they're like, yo, I want whatever she won't has, I want that. And then people started taking it. It ends up happening is the compound pharmacies. There was a shortage, right? You mentioned. A shortage of ZembegoV. there was not enough for diabetics or people using it for obesity. Right, but you're talking, you were using this way before that.

So like, not GEOP-17, BPC-15-7, TB-5-O, yeah, we're talking about, you know, 2015-ish onwards. So wait, wait, we start taking off. Okay. People were using them in the Olympics illicitly in the late 90s, I'd say. Yeah, I don't know how you, we started talking about this in the gym this morning, but I'm not sure how you feel about this totally. But my whole thought was like the steroid craze that happened, looking back on it now.

It's interesting when you're just looking at like performance. performance enhancing drugs. There's an argument there. But I, they ban all these drugs that have to do with recovery, even ones that have been tested for decades that are safe. And to me, I'm kind of like, man, if you're a pro athlete and that's your job and like we get to consume it because you're great at this thing, I would think we'd let that happen. And now they're even banning some peptides. That seems kind of fucked. Yeah. And definitely. And in certain leagues, they allow you an exemption to use like growth hormone after your injury. So certain players come back in the off season, they're looking a little juicy.

That might be why. Like if you tear your Achilles, you should use fucking growth hormone. Yeah, it should be a growth hormone, stem cells, peptides, the whole works. And most of them are on. Yeah. Like if you injected, if I gave you some growth hormone right now and you injected it right now and you saw it came in, unless they come in within the first few hours after the injection, like if they came in tomorrow, they would be like, eh, it's hard to say.

Really? Yeah, because growth hormone has a very short half-life. On top of that, like your IGF1 levels would go up, but you could be like, they've always been up. My IGF1. So IGF1 is the combat. You're taking some IGF1? No, man. Yeah, Deer Adler.

Wait, this is the dealer? I think I was the dealer when I was 18, bro, and it was tainted. I'd stop getting erections. It was terrible. Oh, my God. Yeah, like, don't take random supplements from online. Oh, he's like Ray Lewis came back, so now I got to use it. Yeah, no, no.

So IGF1 is this. Were you doing the actual, like, yeah, dude. But I think it was tainted with some stuff. Who knows what was this? that stuff, yeah. And you're like, why am I growing a third dick? Yeah. I wish.

No, I'm going to. So, wow. So you're using that or not? No, I mean, I use it for like a week and I'm like, oh, this is not good. Like, I'm not getting directions anyway. This sucks. So stop that. It probably had some kind of estrogenic compounds in there.

Who knows? Yeah. IGF1 is producing the liver in response to growth hormone and insulin. So when you make growth hormone from your brain, it goes down to your liver. It tells your liver to make IGF1. That's what actually makes the muscular gain effect and the fat. loss effects from growth hormone. And your liver also does so much in their body.

We talk about that because we have Doe sponsor the podcast sometimes, but it does hundreds and hundreds of functions at all time. Overlooked Oregon. Yep, yep. For sure. Yeah, the Arab world says the liver is like your soul. Like when you say, like I love you, like you say like I'm, you're my liver. Doesn't hit as hard as like love.

It sounds better in Arabic. I'll tell you that. It sounds kind of weird in English. Yeah, what does it sound like an Arabic? It's like, it's like poetic. It's like poetic. Yeah, yeah. That does sound kind of hard.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. English, it's not good. Yeah. So what's this called again? IS. IGF1. IGF1.

So that is processed through your liver. Yeah, but this is me. No, it's probably, I keep putting my phone on airplane mode. Yeah, mine is too. And somehow it gets through. I don't, I don't really understand. Yeah. I don't understand how that happens.

So my bet. Yep, yep. Anyway, so you were saying this goes through the liver and everything. Yep. So the liver growth hormone is produced by the brain. Goes to liver. Liver makes IGF1. That makes you have all these effects.

There are peptides that tell your brain to start making more growth hormone. And these are some of the FDA approved peptides, like Tessimorlin. Sir Morlin was FDA approved. No longer really is on that list. But these peptides are used. Testimorland was approved for HIV patients with lipodistrophy. Some HIV patients, they get like this crazy thick waste of fat. And then their legs are very skinny.

That's a lipidistriotist. It means fat in the wrong place, essentially. Right. People can now use the muscle or mass. So people you now use it off-label. That's the key thing. FTA proves it for one thing, but people can prescribe it off-label for recovery, for sleep, for better growth hormone production. What are all the pitfalls there, though? Like... Yeah, I mean, you're making more growth. So growth hormone, the big debate. Is growth hormone pro-life extension, or is it not? Like, do you live longer as a growth hormone or not? There's a camp that says, like, growth hormone is the fountain of youth because you feel better. on it, your skin looks better, your hair is better, everything's better on growth hormone. In fact, we go through something called somatopause.

Somatopause? Yeah, you've heard of menopause. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That happens in the 40s and 50s for ladies and some guys. Uh, but, joke. But somatopause happens, um, in your mid-30s, let's say, uh, where your growth hormone production dramatically tanks off.

So you start hearing like, I'm not recovering as well, I'm not sleeping as well as I used to. My skin doesn't look as good. I can't eat whatever I want anymore. Right. That's somatopause. So the big debate is it should you replenish your growth hormone, right? Through either taking a peptide, it makes you make more growth hormone or take growth hormone. Or do you, is biology smarter than you?

It's decreasing your growth hormone on purpose so you don't develop cancers, et cetera, et cetera. And again, we need way more years of study to be able to determine which way it's going to break on. Exactly. So the problem is, like for you and I were in our early 30s, we have to make decisions now, right? And like doing nothing is also a choice. Right. that's the big debate that people get into is like should I do nothing should I get foam-oded into inject myself yeah I'm more cautious with that stuff and and any of these things

like I have a basic supplement stack and all that and then I just work out every day I eat really clean foods and like I feel good and my recovery's good I haven't noticed anything really drop off or something from when I was 22 or 23 especially when I went years there where I was sick and couldn't train and lost everything and then built it back like I feel like There's almost like lost time there, but, you know, I'm also not an idiot. Like, as your body gets older, there are going to be things that like you wake up one day and you're like, hmm, I used to be able to do that. Now, you can't.

And you want to be able to avoid that. But also, I wonder about the curve of just overall technology, not just peptides, to where there's things that are being properly developed now, whether it is peptides or a combination of them with other things that you are going to be able to turn back the clock in 10 or 15 years. I think you'll be able to on certain tissues, turn back the clock. Okay. Certain tissues not.

The problem is biology is very complicated and smarter than we are. And we think we make one trade, but it ends up costing you somewhere else. So I think we have to realize that there's a tradeoff to all these different things. And I think that's some like a scientist will get so focused on one pathway. And they think that this pathway is the end all be all. And they'll change this pathway, right? Not realizing it's causing downstream effects somewhere else. That's right.

So then that's what you have to kind of zoom out and see like what's happening on the whole. organism structure and the way you mentioned it like i keep mentioning in the 20s 30s and 40s you have a lot of these organ systems that kind of tank off right thymus pineal your growth hormone production all these things some of the choices you make now in maintaining your robust health is going to dramatically change the way you age right is it going to make you live to 90 100 maybe but more importantly it's like how do you live well because like the modern life just breaks down your joints it breaks down your insulin resistance capacity like all these things break down and we can keep you alive with modern medicine, right? We can extend that life. But it's like, what's quality? And I tell people

it's like, your goal is to never see an internal medicine doctor in the hospital. Your goal is to stay out of the hospital for as long as you possibly can and take care of your own health, your own shepherd. And then when you need it, use it and use good medicine. Right. Then you got a car accident, God forbid, whatever it may be, medicine is great. But you should try to avoid interaction as the medical system as much as possible. So going back to when you were first experimented with this, when you're like 22, 23 and doing bodybuilding, obviously, you're, You were telling me today you're doing squats, dead lives, heavy bench and all that. So you're asking a lot of your body.

But sadly, you were doing it at an age where like your peptides are operating in it, your actual internal peptides are operating at the highest level. So what was the benefit or was there not really a benefit in hindsight to adding to it? So BBC 157 is the first one that I experimented with had a torn labrum. I've torn ACL, have a lot of injuries over the years from. the lifestyle we live right labrum shoulder or hip shoulder yeah um no yeah yeah i voted that surgery yeah but it starts flaring up today funny enough but uh the day before a pet back i guess shoulder steve look at yeah yeah couldn't handle it no yeah he he beat me up no no

now all the flight in i was like oh my shoulders it feels good it's the early thirties but no um it tort toward doing bench press like a decade ago but it's still competed with torn labrum uh it was very limited but it's still competed do you compete That's wild to me, like doing a heavy bench press. Yeah. But so you had a, you had an anterior? Anterior slap tear, laborum. So I got really good at like avoiding the shoulder out of the bench movement,

which is what were you supposed to do. Yeah, but still. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. So you, how, if you were injecting BP 157 into the area? I've injected BPC-1-7 into the shoulder. That was the first time I ever took the PPC-157 for shoulder injury.

So you asked the question, like, don't you have a ton of this peptide? So BPS-157, let's just break down what it is and then why you're considered using it? why people now are considering using it. It's Bcc157 is a 15 amino acid peptide chain supposedly found in gut juices. I said supposedly and everyone is like, oh, it's natural, it's in gut juices. No one's actually shown this to be naturally produced.

So where'd they get it? There's a scientist in Croatia that- That's where it starts. Yeah, it's all right there's in Eastern Europe. A very smart guy, he's like, hey, the gut tissue is the most vulnerable part of your body. Think about it, it's the most exposed surface area. It's two big goes through you

and you eat something and you can die if you eat the wrong thing. Right. You don't have a defense system against this stressor. So he theorizes there must be some kind of defense mechanism. There's a researcher called Hans Celiae that looks and says that during stress, what happens to animals? Their thymus shrinks.

Their adrenals get big. So they make a lot of cortisol out of their adrenal glands that sit on top their kidneys. And their gut lining gets damaged. Stress does that. So the research is like, hey, there must be something in gastric juices that can protect against this process. BP 157. So he finds BPC, the big BPC.

So body protection compound is the big compounds. He says it's 40,000 Dalton's. Now he's never... 40,000 what? 40,000, that's the weight of the compound. Okay. He's never revealed the sequence of that big parent compound, unfortunately. So questions for him.

He's the life. Does he have like a patent on it? He has a patent on BBC. And he doesn't have to reveal... So he revealed what BBC 15 amino acid chain. He's revealed those amino acids. We know those very well. So he's not legally required at some point for a drug that,

So BBC157 has never been approved as a drug anywhere, actually. So BBC 157, the story goes, and a lot of it is like, is he telling the truth? Is he not? BBC 155 comes out of the astrojuice. He starts tearing mice their Achilles and tearing their ACLs and injecting them with BBC 17. It's like, oh, lo and behold, they recover from these injuries, right? A lot of mice data. Like, if you go out, like, they did some crazy stuff to these mice.

Poor things. But they give them BBC. Like, they'd burn them... Better than us. Yeah, they'd burn the mice's skin and then give them BBC. and the skin will come back. It was bad. Yeah.

But the BBC worked for animals. What does it do? Yes. BBC 157 seems to be part of the signaling cascade of bringing in blood flow and repair factors to an injured area. So let's say I have an issue in my elbow or something. This internally working is far more effective than sticking bio-freeves on the outside of my elbow. That is supposed to draw blood flow. Yes.

So, okay. So, like, I have to wear two hats. Like, as a bodybuilding powerlifting, bro, I'm like, BBC is amazing. I've had crazy injuries and had great results of BBC. Yeah. Do I just have free killing ability and I have what it healed anyways? Maybe. But BBC has been life changing for me on that perspective.

As a clinician, then I'm doing evidence-based medicine, all these things. I'm like, ah, we don't have good evidence that this works in humans, right? So I'm like, ah, does this work? Does it not? Like, I'm always in a state of disbelief. And I think it's a healthy balance to have between the two. So we still don't have good evidence that it works. on humans.

We don't have any good human data showing that BBC 157 improves an outcome for an injury. There's one small study on injecting into people's knees. For Oswald, it's like 20 people. So it's not sufficient enough. And it's like a questionnaire afterwards to say like. What was that thing that they were doing? It was revolutionary in like the late 2000s and early 2010s.

I remember like famous athletes, whether it was Kobe Bryant or I think, Chase Utley did it as well, where a lot of guys were going over to Germany to get this therapy in their knees and stuff. What was that? That's PRP, platelet-rich plasma. And that's totally different. Totally different. But kind of operates the same idea as like, how do you get healing factors and blood flow into an area? In fact, like when I had my ACL surgery, I did both at the same time, PRP, peptides, and stem cells. You were loaded up. Yeah. How fast was your recovery from? I mean, it's funny. Three months in, I was walking into rehab and I was, I was outperforming the people that were like six, seven months out of surgery.

There's further setbacks after the fact that kind of suck because that's more of me than it is the recovery. Right. Right. Getting back on certain workouts that you should be doing. That's kind of wild though, like gym bros were using this back when you were as well like 2015 and we still can't get like good studies on how effective it is. There's no financial incentive to get a study in. There's no financial incentive? Yeah.

So the guy who owns the patent, the company, there's a doctor, Cigrich, um, He's, if the BBC story is real, he's a legend, right? If he, if he's telling the truth about BBC and all the stuff that he's discovered, he's found one of the most marvelous compounds that has ever existed. Imagine he's just sitting in some mansion of Croatia right now. Yeah, exactly. Man, fuck these people. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, he's still active at the University of Zagreb and Croatia's. The dude sticks for the story. There's been journalists from the U.S. now since the peptide crisis has gone up. They've gone over to Croatia and interviewed the guy. And he's like, hey, this is what happened. He even named it 157 because that's the anniversary. of Croatia's independence. The guy is committed to his country.

But the problem is we don't have incentive to study because in order to get a drug FDA approved, there's millions of dollars that have to be going through a phase one, phase two, phase three trial to show that it's safe, that's effective, and then it works at scale. If there's no financial incentive, no one's going to run that study. So the patent now technically, there's more than one patent on BPC. One of them is with Teva, the company that makes Adderall, the generic Aderterter, They're making so much money on generic out of all. They don't need to spend money on figuring out BPC.

Now, somebody could. Even if it was a huge opportunity for them, I mean, they're making money on meth. So there's a problem. BBC 157. Let's say like I, now I have a billion dollars. I'm going to go buy the PPC 157 patent and get this $100 million or so to get this FDA approved. Right. What's stopping Joey Deef, I'm selling it online at his website, BPC 157.

JoeyDeaf.com. Yeah, there you go. Right. Right. So any bro online, I think there's 29 new peptide companies that come out every few days. Yep. That's not. If you're in Miami, every kid now has a peptide company.

Of course in Miami. All the guys are friends selling your courses a few years ago. That's like the ground zero, patient zero of medical fraud, any kind of fraud. All the crypto bros, they're scamming you now are scamming on peptides. So if I'm the pharmaceutical company, why would I even invest this one? Like every bro is injecting it already. So the best shot is like the government has to say like, hey, look, either people see one of seven. is this amazing drug and millions of people are missing out and we have this aging population

with damaged joints that could benefit from this compound or millions of kids are going to inject this anyways and they're going to be harmed by it if it is harmful and we need an answer ASAP because either one of these situations we don't want happening. Right. So like it's NIH should just spend some money and get the studies done and we should know if BBC 157 works or not and if it's safe. And also then people at home are going to be skeptical to like all right if you're spending And there's no perfect way to do it.

But you're spending money on studies. Who's spending the money? Who's fronting it? What are the incentives for whatever result is wanted and like how real will the data be? And also like if you're just looking at it now, do you need studies that are done over a 10, 15, 20 year period to really get an answer, which means we're going to be sitting here in 2045. The reality is most drugs they get approved don't have that track record anyways. The reality is we are the phase four trial. So after drug gets approved, it goes through phase four trial, which they're marked, they're,

monitoring people as they get in the in these community using the drug right right the problem is a lot of drugs get pulled during phase four like millions of people use it or hundreds of thousands of people are used it and then it gets pulled oh it's not safe so like we don't have a good process to actually prove that something safe they're like assuming like hey most likely this is safe but a lot of drugs get pulled and opioids are FDA approved bendozaa approved like just because something's FDA approved doesn't mean it's safe oh yeah i think we've learned that unfortunately yeah so like this is my criticism to the medical community like i have a lot I have a lot of criticisms of peptide bros and the medical community.

And there's there needs to be a synergy of how we go forward in between here. Yeah, you seem to have a really nuanced take on a lot of things, which I like. And that's important. Yeah, yeah. We're missing that. Because I think we, the cool thing if you can do this in any kind of topic is can you hold two opposing views in your mind and sit with them and let them kind of hash it out. It might be because, I don't know if you're knowing your Myers break. I'm an ENTP.

That's the debater type. So I can have two ideas in my own. In fact, like, I'll take, I'll take the counter position that I, don't really believe in the debate. If you can do that, then you actually know the topic well. Fuck you. Right? So you should be able to go both sides of a debate and understand what the other person is doing.

Then you get actually more empathy for the other side. So, like, I think we need more of that. But people are so locked in. Like the people that are like, the Fauci is amazing and medicine's amazing. And peptides are evil are so locked in on their camp. And now peptides are kind of coded Maha, anti-vax. They're kind of coded this weird thing. But they shouldn't be.

Like, they're not associated with any kind of movement. It's their own thing, right? Yeah, it should be like the old Bruce Lee quote, take what's good, discard what's bad, right? There you go. And try to separate them out the best. Exactly. I think that's a really good way to look at it because it's like, you know, you also don't want to, you don't want to just jump on a craze because it seems really good right now and then have regrets later and be like, sorry. You want to be able to say, hey, here's where the red tape still is and what we got to be careful of and where it could be useful and make the decision at your own risk.

With GLP1s, for example, like I prescribe them, I'm still worried every day that a news story might come out. Like a new study shows GLP1s cause X, Y, Z. And there's some already kind of hints that there's some problems happening, right? Like what? Thyroid cancer risks. There's this blindness risk that's come up in certain patients.

Oh, yeah. Like, when we prescribed the GLP1 at the VA five years ago, we would have to get an eye exam on the patient to make sure they didn't have a certain disease before they'd give them the TIP1s because we knew GLP1s accelerated that disease. Right. Now, if you took it early enough,

it would prevent that disease. Just that if you drop a blood sugar, quickly it can cause worsening of that eye of disease, right? Yeah. So that was nuanced care. You're actually, but now you can go online, whether buy it from a research chemical company or go over these telehealth pill mills, say your name. You could say, yeah, my BMI is 19.

I'm underway. They're like, sure, what prescribe you'll be one? No problem. Cash is green. So you can just kind of buy your own thing. You're on your own doctor. Like the doctor stamps the prescription. But it's such a.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So unfortunately, that's where we're at. There's a wild, wild west here. Both research grade, compounded prescriptions. I think people should have relationships with their doctors. I think that's a good relationship to have the doctor that you trust, that you like,

that's with it that can actually look over your supplement snack and look over your routine. Nowadays, if you go to your doctor and you have a supplement's like, well, I don't know what this says. Like, don't take it stuff. It's unnatural. Right. It's like, yo, but come on, man. Yeah. Get with the program.

Yeah, you got to get with the program. But all right, let's stay on this. I just got to go to the bathroom real quick. Let's do it. We'll be right back. All right, real quick, we're going to get back to the black market thing. second but Amanda was just showing me when I stepped out for a second you're developing an app that like customizes all this stuff how does this work

calibrate that day it helps you calibrate your circadian clock so the problem is the screen rhythm advice is like very theoretical online there's a lot of Sunbrose that tell you like yeah Sun Bros right they're like hey son all day it was like okay but we live lives like you have to work and do this things I'm like this is how do you customize as best as you can to your lifestyle when you should get strategic exposure to Sun which it blocked sunlight block blue light whatever it may be, which glasses to use, using the blackout blinds, nightshades, whatever may be to help you sleep better and build your own customized circadian protocol and then how

to implement that. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So this is because also like Amanda was just saying when she was still in here that a lot of this stuff like you have to pay for right now to get the information like this could be really helpful. I'm just looking right now for the first time.

Yeah. Our hypothesis is that everything's going to be free when it comes to apps because of chat deep tea and all these guys. So just make that app free and then. have companies that make products in the space, sponsor the apps, and force them to actually change the way health care is administered. Yes.

Are you running into any issues with AI leading people down pathways? Yeah. And then they come and ask you some questions, and you're like, I think that. Yeah, yeah. AI anxiety, AI protocols that suck. Because AI is not good. It's not Google.

Like, people still don't know how to use AI. We use AI a lot in my practice, both on making apps, but also with patients. and we're using it to have a frame of reference we give it the studies we want it to look at like for example I look like hey based on this study if I could give you this patient's labs what would you think?

Not just give the labs and then let it think on its own like give it context and then you can kind of take it down a pathway Right. But when you just give it open context it's pulling from everywhere it doesn't know what it's doing. And it's a free for all and it's also grabbing things that are

could be fake studies It can hallucinate studies They could be grabbing from websites that are making claims because they're selling a product and then taking that as fact. That stuff scares me for anything, let alone peptides. Exactly. You become your own doctor on AI that's still like learning. Exactly. When I as a doctor don't even, we'll say like honestly, we don't know everything about peptides.

And yet the 19 year old peptide bro selling you stuff is the expert? Like, come on. Have you seen, you know, obviously don't break patient privilege or anything like that. But have you seen some horror stories with people? people personally where people have it go very, very wrong because they're self-administering these things. So yeah, I've seen both patients and amongst the Twitter audience or self-reported like people will mega dose Reddit truceyde. That's the third generation after a semaglutide. Ozambic. Osambic. Okay. Mongero. Redas, the next one is going to come out.

So it's more powerful than Osempic? Much more powerful. What makes it more powerful? Ozambic has one receptor that activates GLP1. Mm-hmm. Terseptide, it's Mongero and Zep bound, has two receptors, GLIP-1 and GIP-IP. GIP is another gastric peptide, gut peptide that helps signal them with sat satiety. And returutatide? Reda-Trutti-Trutti? Reda-Trude.

They call it Reda. Okay. Okay. It's kind of hard. Yeah, it goes hard. Reda is going to be GLP, GIP, and glugugon receptor. Okay. So in English, what does that do?

It makes you lose weight, makes you probably increase breasting metabolic rate. and probably preferentially load carbohydrates into muscle. That's how bodybuilders are using it. Sounds like a magic fucking pill. It's very powerful. But the problem is someone will get a vial. They don't know the dosage. They'll do it too high.

They'll end up in the hospital with pancreatitis. Like I've admitted patients to my hospital with pancreatitis. That's a pancreatic inflammation that happens after taking some of these peptides. Some of it, they were taking on protocol. Some people were taking it way higher than they should be taking. That's also what I'm thinking, though, was something like that before we even know anything about it. It's like this very new nascent thing. You know, it goes back to that conversation. We were having a little bit ago about the baseline. If you're a diabetic and you need

the insulin adding a certain amount is going to do it. If you don't need it and you add it, you hurt yourself. Exactly. I don't, again, total amateur here. Just from a common sense view, I don't see how that's going to be a priceless pay. You know what I mean? There's not for lunch. There has to be something that's wrong there for people doing that. Yeah, for like, if you're obese, you're 300 pounds, you're going to develop heart disease, you're have three, four wrecks risk higher of certain cancers. Tradeoffs there.

There's a bunch of tradeoffs, and it makes sense for that patient. For whatever risk, maybe there's very little risk from the jumping ones. Maybe it is a godsend, right? It's as good as everyone thinks it's going to be. Then it would have been worthwhile for those people to have taken the drug, even for 30 years. Because we just shifted them from getting heart attack at 45.

Right. The problem in the hot, people don't realize this. And it's like, oh, Osamaics not natural. Like, we have to be natural. Like, you don't understand. When I'm in the hospital, people are coming in, they're getting their legs chopped off because they won't take their insulin because they're resistant to insulin. They're diabetics.

They're losing their vision. All these people are very sick in the real world. Like, not this online health space, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the real world is like, if we can change the trajectory of these people's lives with this drug, it's great. Now, where I'm not comfortable with it is like you're just a fit dude and you're taking Reddit to get lean for summer.

That's right. I'm concerned about that. because there's no biological free lunch and why are we going to give you a drug and increase the risk probabilities and now you're just taking on your own without even consulting a doctor, looking at lab work, doing all these things.

Like before we give anyone any kind of peptide, we want baseline of blood work, we want to see where they're at. We're going to talk to them about diet and exercise. Actually make sure their health protocols make sense, make sure they're not anorexic and they're just trying to medicate their anorexia, you know? Right.

So those are those problems. So you're also dealing with all kinds of psychological stuff too. Oh yeah. You know? And like, that's got to be like you understand this more because you're not fucking 60. Like you and I, we grew up with the social media. We saw how in real time how it changed society. And we're seeing massive changes to how people are constantly looking at their appearance and stuff like that now.

And I empathize with young kids coming up who have lived in a world where they're forced to see all their imperfections instead of things that are good. But like, that's got to be difficult as a doctor where you're supposed to treat things medically or help. and in your case with your clinic be able to help people optimize and stuff like that when you're also dealing with people coming into where you kind of have to play psychiatrist and figure out like all right is this is the internal clock a little broken by the system here that's that's pretty hard yeah yeah but i mean the interesting part is too like some these gLP ones have psychiatric effects for example like a lot of drinkers when they get on g lp1s will drink a lot less or stop drinking really yep yeah what's the science so it's

It seems like it dampens some of the dopamine response that happens in the brain that comes from the drinking. It decreases appetite in general. Like even people, a lot of my patients, like, I'm dehydrated and I'm on a JLP1. Like, you just take an electrici packet and drink some water, right? Like, come on, simple, man. Just being a pussy.

Sprinkle some salt and water and drinking, man, come on. But they get dehydrated. Like, they don't even want to drink water. Like, they lose their appetite for a lot of things. So there's that factor. It seems like it changes the dopamine transmission in the brain. How does it do that? So when someone's on a GLP1,

this is the way patients will describe it. Like, they would see a bird, and they'd be like, oh my God, this is amazing. In fact, there's some likelihood that obese people have a heightened response to these kind of things where they see a burger. They have more of a dopaminergic response. Like, I got to eat this burger than a lean fit person.

So a lot of lean fit people are like, oh, just lay down the burger, bro. It's like it's not so simple. Like their brains are miswired from whatever they've been exposed to. And I'm not saying they have no choice in morale in this discussion. There's choice still matters. But they're more likely to make the wrong decision based on their genetic predisposition

and where they've been in life. Now, when they're on the JLPI one drug, they'll see the same burger that I don't need to care. So you've taken away that dopamine drug's itch to go get that food. And they talk about food noise. Like, hey, I hear like, I need to eat, I need to eat, I need to eat.

That's what a lot of, like, fatter guys will say. Yeah. Fat of guys and gals. But when they take on the drug, like, I don't even hear that word anymore. Like, I don't have that constant desire to eat. That's interesting. Yep.

So the same thing seems to apply to alcoholic beverages. Now, because also, like, then you hear a benefit like that and you may see like a lot of people who are alcoholics. So like they're like, oh shit, can that help me? And then they do. And then what price do they pay for that? It's like this is where again, you've been saying it all day. But like the no free lunch thing is something I think about all the time with anything.

And that's my biggest fear with this stuff. But like you were also saying, we kind of got off it. People do it in different ways. They'll take stuff that's just like over the counter and pill form. which as far as in the little research I've done, this is like maybe 5, 10% the potency of like injecting it into your system. You know, people injecting stuff

that kind of scares the shit out of me. Yeah. No, it's, and plus like people have serial technique and they get infections and then there's drug reactions. Like all people take a peptide called Motzzi. It's a mitochondrial peptide. MOTC. Okay.

We call it MOTC. Yeah, it sounds like a chick, right? But it seems like they call it exercise in a vial. Like you inject it and you get some of the effects of exercise without exercising. It's actually a drug being developed. Like there's, I think it was discovered at USC in California and they're developing into a drug. Bros will take it post-workout to increase their fat burning or before workout to increase metabolic rate. Now this peptide specifically tends to cause anaphylaxis.

Oh, that's not good. Yes. So I tell peptide bro, I was like, do you have a epipen around or are you just going to be running around? And so there's been a number of guys that have been like, oh, I'm in the ER because I got anaphylaxis to my peptide. I wonder why. Yeah, exactly. It's trying to make your body at rest pretend it's not.

Yeah, exactly. Like, is there, even if it's doing some of the functions like fat burning when you're just sitting down and not working out that would be happening if you were physically working out in the gym at the time, it's not the same, like, it's not a bar for bar the same thing, right? It's not the same. Now, it's, where's that interesting? You have a 65-year-old that is, you know, a veteran that's missing. both their legs. They can't exercise the same way we can. If we can give them a drug to simulate

some of the benefits of exercise and then changes person's life, that's cognitive benefits, that's sexual benefits. Whatever it may be, that's great. You're 18, bro. Why are you taking not see? So that that's my concern. The other thing is I think the framework that we like to operate out of is biological restoration. Biological restoration. The cool thing is biohacking. It's everybody wants to be a biohacker, right? I think, how can we restore biology to where it's supposed to be? First of all, let's figure out what it looks like on an ideal state. And how can we restore that? Because we live in this era where we're the first people to not be malnourished or underfed.

Great. Good for us. Everyone else for thousands of years had nutritional deficiencies. They didn't have enough food. They'd starve in the winter. They would lose a lot of their kids because of childbirth problems. Because if the baby's head is too big for the birth canal, both mom and baby don't make it through. That was most people for thousands of years.

We have technologies to help you now reach adulthood. Before childhood mortality was very high. Unfortunately, our technologies have made us that were overfed. we're obese. We don't have enough of the right nutrients. We have too much of the wrong nutrients. So you're over-fed and malnourished. You're stressed out. You're not running your biology at optimal states. So how can we take advantage of this great abundance that we have while still restoring biological systems to an ideal state? Yeah. That's the goal. Yeah. And it's strange because we've even flipped the paradigm to where, for example, we're the first, as far as I know, I believe we're the first

society in human history. Maybe you can check this, Steve, to where there's a larger obesity problem in the lower class than there is the upper class. Whereas like food always trickled down from the top to bottom in the past, but it's in the defense of like people of lesser means as well and getting obese, it's because we've created the most affordable foods

as the most processed shit ever. Yes. Deef took me to a McDonald's the other night for the first time in fucking 20 years. I had not been inside one of those places. Good for you. Don't ask me how that happened. It was a road trip.

It is what it is. But like the next day, when I was working out. I mean, my whole, it wasn't even in my head when I was doing it, but I was like halfway through my workout. I'm like, God, what I feel like shit today? And I was like, oh, that's right. We fucking ate at McDonald's last night.

I'm like, there's a lot of people who like survive off eating stuff like this because even though they don't have a dollar menu anymore, it's still cheaper than like buying fucking fruits and vegetables. Yep. Yeah. Forording good meats, fruits and vegetables, you know, having time to exercise. Yep. Like most people, they're starting their job.

They can't exercise at 6.45 a.m. Like, good for us. we're exercising this morning, but a lot of people don't have that luxury even to have the time. Like the funny part, I say like sunlight's the freest thing, but it's also the most expensive because it's free to do, but it's so expensive because you have to kind of rearrange your life around it. And our life is designed to keep us indoors away from the sun. Yes.

So it's the freest therapy, but also the most expensive. So all these companies now are trying to bring sunlight inside with certain light devices. A red light therapy craze, all these things are trying to simulate a very free thing and commoditize it into an internal thing. Yeah, but you also, like you can't recreate that. Like I have the sky windows here. that's awesome because I get more natural light in during the day. Like, that's good for it.

But, like, it's not, when I stand on my sky window in the morning. It's not the same. It's not the same because there's the window. What is it, refracting light? Yeah, and it's blocking certain wavelengths too. Like, like, the problem is a lot of the red gets fat filtered out. The blue comes in and the UVA comes in. So have you seen the truck driver that has the damaged face?

No. So there's a truck driver. There's a famous truck driver case study where the guy is like his half his face is super age and half his face is not. And both sides of the sun debate, use it for their, for their own. benefits of if we yeah this this dude what the fuck yeah just go out we lost the screen I've never seen this before this is kind of crazy so you'll see this on every antithson person every present person will use the same picture to argue their points kind of funny how humans are

so this guy is a truck driver so the left side of his face which is on the right side of the screen is dramatically overaged compared to his right side of the face where the window is yes and they're like oh it's because of the sun but also it's not just the sun when you the sun comes to the window, it blocks the infrared that kind of protects your skin from damage from UV, and it allows through the blue light and the UVA that's more skin damaging. In fact, if an AI now screens your face, it can tell you which phone you tend to hold your, oh, which side your phone you hold it in. So if AI screens your face, it can look at like, hey, you hold your phone your right hand because your right side is a little bit more age because blue light is not good for your face.

So when people are doing red light therapy, they're just supplementing for a little lack of sunlight. Have you just got it for free, especially the first hour, hour and half of the day, it's free red light therapy. But this guy's, his face is over-nourished and UV on that side. And under-nourished in infrared, he ends up having the photo age effect. That's one of wildest images I've ever seen. I've never seen it before. So, like, sun makes sense.

Be smart about it. And the other thing I tell people is like, your sundose depends on your genetics and where you're from. Like, if you're from Ireland and your redhead, you don't need that much sun. You don't need that much sun Or you've just not been as exposed to it evolutionary over time And your body just adjusted. Yep.

So you need a little bit about it. Like you wouldn't get UV light. So like UVB is what makes vitamin D and it's only produced year round underneath the 33rd parallel. So let's say Las Vegas down. Interesting number. Yeah. Right.

I think it's the number or I'm thinking about some of your conspiracy episodes out, right? Yeah. Right? But so in you, New York, in New York, New Jersey, all these places are from, let's see, September to March, you can't really make vitamin D from the sun as effectively as you would in the summer. That's right. In California, you can do year-round.

So if you're in Ireland, your body's adapted to that. But if you're from the sub-Saharan Africa, you need hours of sunlight a day probably because your body's adapted to that sun exposure. And that's also where, obviously, we're skin colors coming in. There you go. The more, like, melanin is your natural sunscreen. So if you're a redhead, you don't have that much melanin. you don't have no much sunscreen.

If you're darker, you have a little bit more to say. What do you make of the recent research that some of it, to me, seems to be pretty compelling about maybe some of the opposite effects, if you will, of sunscreen and some of the bill that's been sold on that over the years? I think the nuance approach is best. Sunscreen is oversold, I think, to people. We'll become sunphobic, like sunscreen sunglasses, both. We need a certain amount of UV light to hit our skin in our eyes.

just don't overdo it don't overdo it dose it appropriately um animals are a very good example you take your dog outside your dog runs in the sun in the sun for a little bit as soon as he feels comfortable he walks right back into the shade so we can be smarter animals or the only animals since the sun burns uh for fun if you're if you're in the sun get out of the sun go in the shade if you're lighter skin you're more likely to burn you can be strategic cover your face up with some um natural zinc oxide sunscreen top of your hands so you don't age photo age but get sun everywhere else like you don't you don't what photo age photo age so i As you get damage from light, what that's, and the shorter the wavelength, the more damaging it is.

Remember we're talking about that wavelength chart? So like wavelengths that are 600 plus in the red and infrared zone tend to be beneficial for skin. In fact, there's studies of using red light to protect the skin, rejuvenate the skin, and actually use it as a sunscreen. So red light is a sunscreen if you do it early enough in the day. Interesting. That's why naturally the morning sunlight is very rich in red.

It has no UV. So if you get morning sunlight, you're protected against the UV later on. Oh, that's so cool. And on top of that, you know, you're just... You know that golden hour, the last part of the day, there's no UV. It's rich in infrared. So you can kind of repair some of the damage that's happened from the UV during the day. The virus is the same as the cure.

There you go. That's nuts, man. So getting sun appropriately circadian appropriate to your skin color appropriate is what needs to be done. To restore circadian rhythms, to restore mitochondrial health, to make vitamin D, to simulate the monocorone system. Like a lot of the peptides actually stimulate the receptors that sun is supposed to stimulate. How did they do that? So there's the receptors in the brain called the melanocortons. The melanocortons.

Melanochortens. Milano. They control your skin color, but they also determine appetite, feeding, and sexual function. Oh, wow. Why? Because mammals need to be dosing those things inappropriate to the, in response to the season. You have different fertility as a mammal, depending on the season that you exist in. For example, most humans are born July and August, on average.

It's September, depending on what part of the world you're from? that's not by coincidence. Before birth control, there was still a time where people were more fertile and time where people were less fertile. In fact, my grandma has 11 kids. Her first one and the last one were born on the same day.

That's interesting. So either that's a big fluke or she was more fertile during those times because they weren't using protection. I always just thought it had to do with the wear in the menstrual cycle. It is. In like the 28-day period of like obviously

at ovulation, they're more likely to be able to produce. Yeah, but even after, let's say the ovulate, the implantation is more likely in a better hormonal milieu and the sperm quality gets better like all of things that are more optimized at certain times so there's this thing called the skin brain gonadal axis gonadal access gonadal access genital skin brain gonadal axis essentially saying that there's a connection between your

skin getting uv light your brain stimulating these melanocortin receptors and turning on your gonads your testicles or your ovaries to be able to like shoot the biggest load exactly wow yep so the guy obviously yes and for the girl you get more fertile so a lot of my patients i'll send on a vacation like hey, every fertility problems. Let's go on a vacation, get some sunlight, kind of lower the stress level.

That's going to be therapeutic. Of course, you see a fertility specialist. Have you any one? Yeah. Now the stress part is big. Okay. Now that makes some sense to it

because it's natural like you're getting more sunlight, you're out of nature, your cortisol drops from that because I fully believe that far beyond just like sexual function and ability to repopulate and stuff, like stress kills fucking everything that touches.

Yep. And there's a book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Yes. Because you see a zebra and lion chases them. They run away. Right. One zebra gets eaten.

Lion takes the zebra. Ten minutes later, there's chill and they're back to where they were. Yeah, she's been crippling. We are acting like we're being chased by lions 24-7. Even more we're sleeping. We're running. And then if you're taking Reda, Reda, Jack's up your heart rate, makes you anxious, too. So, like, everyone's growing up in a very wound-up state.

Yes. So this is a problem that happens. On top of that, we're mad. manufacturing. Yes. Cortisol for things that don't need it. Yes. But, I mean, social media does good with cortisol.

Because the more anxious you are, the more likely you are to spread something because like fear porn is a thing. Of course. Of course. So it incentivizes fear porn. But you don't get the, you do not get the satisfactory result of having fucking just booked it away from a line and not getting eaten and come down from that as you do from going, fuck you die.

Yes. You disagree with me. Send. Yes. Exactly. And you wouldn't do that if you saw that person in person, you wouldn't do that. Most people would not, that's right.

Some people are narcissistic, pathological people, but most people are pretty reasonable in person. Yeah. But here's the other thing, God, biology, whatever you believe, put the stress response, ACTH, the hormone from the brain tells you your adrenals to make cortisol, and MSH, the hormone that makes you darker, but also controls sexual function, fertility, all these things,

on the same protein. They're cleaves off, they're both peptides cleave on the same protein in the brain. And I don't think that's a mistake, because the way the way it's supposed to work is that you're supposed to see light, make cortisol, wake up, go in the sun. You make MSH, so you can make melanin to protect you from the effects of the sun. And then those both drop as sun sets. You go to sleep. You have sexual function because it's funny,

that peptide kicks in like 10 hours later. 10 hours later. So there's a pharmaceutical companies have made this peptide into an injection one and we'll talk about that. But midday sunlight is it like if you think about it, days you've been on the beach, you spend all day on the beach in the sun, in the water. You'll have great sleep at night, very vivid dreams, and most people report a boost in sexual function. I never thought about that. Keep an eye on it and you report back. I was just doing that a couple weeks ago.

I didn't even think about that. So like, most guys are like, oh yeah, my morning wood's back. Like, uh, that's just going to the beach. Yeah, just kind of chilling out a little bit, but also the UV exposure. So what happens is there's an MC3R and MC4R receptors in the brain. these receptors control libido. In fact, there's a drug called PC-141 by leeksie. It's an FDA-approved drug for ladies that have hyperactive sexual desire disorder

and paramedicotus a woman. This drug, guys and girls take it. If you take it, you will have the craziest erections, the craziest libido. What's this drug called? PT-141. PT-141. Yep. People out there getting that PT-141 right.

But now, here's the problem. If you underdose it, nothing really happens. If you overdose it, you're nauseous and you're throwing up. So it's a very small window. You get it right. You know how animals go into heat? Into what? Into heat.

Like, you'll have a, like, I had a pet bird, and we didn't have the female in the male together. So the female was in heat. Like, she needed to copulate. And she started pulling out her feathers because she like, she's like needed the male. She needed that dick. Yeah, exactly. She needed to get dig down. But it wasn't happening.

So, like, she, but. You can essentially turn on heat with a peptide over sunlight exposure, but these... You're tempting some people right now. Oh, yeah. It worked. I mean, it's an FDA-approved drug for this indication. What's it called again? PT-141.

Pt, 141. Brett-Milatide. They've got some hard names for these things. I know. Fun intended. But... No, I mean, yeah, it works very well. But the problem is that you don't know when it's going to kick in either.

It can kick in right away. So don't try it at home, folks. You have a prescription. Do this right way. To the right way. Guidance of a doctor. But when it works, it works. works. The problem is like one time I got to prescribe to test this out. I like to test things out

before I give it to patients. There's just know what's going on with it with it. You take the drug, it didn't really kick in. I'm like, oh, I must be, I'm young and healthy. I guess it doesn't do anything from me. I'm a macho man, you know what I'm saying? 10 hours later, I'm on a six hour flight and it kicks in. Oh no. And it kicks in. You have a hot chick next to you? No, it was not a problem. It was a problem. It was a, thank God it wasn't. It's the whole flight. I'm like, you're hard the whole flight. And I'm like, oh, shit, this is bad. This is bad. But it's an effective compound.

Let's step back. Why are people having under-stimulated melanocorn systems because they're indoors all day? They're not getting the UV exposure. So that's why that skin brain gonadal axis, it shows you that animals and humans, when they get more sun exposure, they get more sexual passions.

That's what the study says. Do you believe in God? So it's gonadal, not Galangel. Gonatal? Yeah, they'll help you. G-O-N-D-A-L. He'll grab that. Do you believe in like a creator?

like God. Yeah, yeah, I'm Muslim stuff. Is that something you ever went back and forth on at one point in question, or have you always been consistent on that? To go back to your first question, like, why I got to medicine, the moment I saw a biology textbook, I'm like, this had to be designed. Right. And so, like, when I'm studying this stuff, it's like I'm having conversation with God.

Like, I'm looking into, like, the industry of this structure. Like, the fact that the melanocorin system, the stress system on the same peptide, like, I don't know. That wasn't chance. I totally agree that, like, the more you look at the, layers of life, whether you're looking at it medically or you're looking at like how nature works and everything. Something like evolution has certainly happened and I think we still have a lot more to do with the science on that. But the flickering of the flame that gets all the patterns started

and operating at a high level, something powerful had to build that. 100%. Had to. It's so cool. Like, and every day. time you've said something today where it's like in this thing, which also happens to correlate with this thing and it's in the same spot of real estate in your body, you're just like, God damn. Yep. And the problem is as you go deeper down, complexity increases. So like that shows you there's more design. Like theoretically from Darwin's first principles, it should get simpler as you go down and

complexity comes out from from life as life goes further out. But cells are more complex than us in many ways. That's right. So like as you go deeper down, it's more complex. Adams are very complex. So I think that's sign of design. For sure. Now we had this pulled up deep. Yeah, so it's like that picture right there with the second one from the left.

Yeah, that one. All right, what am I looking at here? So this is the summary of the study. Skin brain going out of access. If you go download high resolution right below the picture, boom. Here we go. Okay, so unexposed on the left, UVB slash solar exposed on the right. You want to explain the rest of this?

Yeah, so what ends up happening is they took animals and they took humans and they showed that the unexposed skin in both men and women. Sorry, they exposed skin in both men and women. You had odor cues. You make more fernones. Testosterone levels go up in males. Romantic passions go up. Aggression goes up. And then in females, they're more attractive.

So the female mice that were supposed to sunlight were more attracted to male mice as a result of being exposed to sunlight. Part of that's probably from fernones, but there's also probably other factors that go in there. Wait, I'm sorry. the females were more attracted to the males they're more attractive more attractive to the males okay yes so it's as if the male mice could sniff out which female had gotten sun exposure or not right there there there were more so the females were more receptive sexual interactions their estrus in incidents increase they're more fertile right and they had more follicles and then they showed you like how that works it's going from the brain that makes gnr h to the petrudeau that makes

lh and fessage so they're going ads to make wait like more hair follicles no follicles in the ovaries to make to make umbriose got it okay and then and the females they noticed that the romantic passions went up yeah and we have an FDA approved drug for the same thing but it's like they they just drugged sunlight essentially and put it into a while that's the other thing man it's like the more we come up with stuff like this whether it's peptides or any of these other things we're getting you know i'm all for innovation i'm all for also learning like let's make sure we're doing it right and you know we're not robin peter pay paul that kind of I think. But I do think a lot in many contexts about some of the technological power we now have in mankind and where we can play God with things.

And I know you have to think about this a lot. But I worry about that sometimes because it's a little bit of garden of eating shit. You know, you eat that fruit. Suddenly you know some shit that maybe life was better that you didn't know before. They did it's less. Yeah. Yeah. And the problem is like even in doctors, like, it's cardiac surgeons, neurosurgeons, they tend to have God complexes. Yeah. Because they're like, I have your heart in my hands. I control your life. Exactly. So then they have those complexes that develop as a result. Of course, God humbles everybody eventually. But no, the thing is like back to the peptides conversation. Like this peptide is a specific peptide to act of specific receptor, so it has clear benefits, clear risks.

The peplates that are more interesting, I would say, are the Russian ones. Because they help restore natural function is what they're purported to do. And there's good, actually have good human data on them. So they're-Laddy on these? Vladimir Kavanaugh. No, no, no, no. Vladtiputon. Oh yeah, yeah.

So Vladimir Kavanaugh, put up a picture of Vladimir Kavanaugh, Vladimir Putin. He got an award. No, really, enough, a year after this award, this guy was axed. Interesting. We got a type of this one. This one brings in... You give me the wrong peptide. Yeah, you're done.

With head. What's his name? Vladimir K-H-A-V-N-S-O-N with Poo-N. He's got it. So we got a pick of this? Oh, yeah. And he's dead now. He died a year after this picture.

Which is like, they're like, oh, natural causes. He's putting an award on him. Yep. It's like, yeah, I'm going to pin this bullet in your fucking heart too. So Vladimir Pooen was known for years to get drugs from this doctor. This doctor created like 20, 30 different supplements and drugs. I wonder. remember when they were, and we speculated about too, because we were seeing the videos,

people were speculating out there at the beginning of the war that Putin was deathly sick because there would be videos of him shaking and holding onto the table and shit. I wonder if you got like a bad dose or something. Yeah. So like there's a whole conspiracy like why did Dr. Cavinson die? Like he was very healthy. His parents both lived to 90s. He's on the peptides. I think he's in his mid-70s, but looks pretty good. Function is pretty good. It was very pretty good. It was very Prolific researcher. Now, the weird part is, look at that guy's irises. Hit that third picture. Deep, yeah. It's got them Lindsay Clancy Irish. Yeah, yeah. So, big motherfuckers, saucers. Working with you and it's not, not probably easy. But no, the crazy part is,

it's affected, like, the Ukraine war affected my practice dramatically because, so Dr. Cavinson events, that thymelin drug we were talking about earlier. He's the one that made that up in the 70s. They used it for astronauts and pilots and submarine operators, submariners in the Soviet Union. What happened, these guys, when they'd be in space or they'd be underwater for six months, they age faster, and he called it premature aging syndrome. Because when you cut off them, the circannurhythm, and you're getting radiation exposure to your chest, you're damaging your thymus, they'd age faster.

He created two drugs, epithelamine, which is, it makes epithelon. It's a pineal plant extract that he harvested down and injected into people. And thymolin, which was a thymus extract that he grinded down and injected into patients. And he could supposedly, according to the Soviet lore, restore the health of these young men. So this becomes like a national security thing for the Soviet Union. And they use this drugs. He makes another drug for the eyes because they're worried that the U.S. government has lasers to shoot into.

Frician laser beams. Yep, yep. That's funny. That always comes out. Now, fine milon was being produced for very cheap. It's like 15 bucks a bottle. It's a very effective peptide. It's approved in Russia as a drug.

So it's not like some research chemical. It's actually an approved drug. Because of the war, the factory that makes that shut down. So now I can't even access this medication for myself or whoever I want to give it to. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. So unfortunately, wars affect health too.

Yeah. So we're like missing research there. Or research opportunities there now too. Yeah, because the fall of Soviet Union really slowed down Russian innovation. Like the Russians came out with peptides and non-peptides, a lot of cool compounds, bromantane, bent, all these cool. And there were the ideas like how can you increase capacity? capacity in a human being.

To work harder, to be in space, whatever it may be. Unfortunately, we lost a lot of that when Soviet Union fell. Not that Soviet Union was great. Soviet Union was horrible. But Dr. Cabins complains like, oh, once the pharmaceutical companies came in, they didn't take my research seriously. They didn't believe in this biological restoration concept. Yeah.

So, but now, like, for all of my patients, there's a peptide that he developed called Epitallon. It's four amino acids. Unlike the gLP ones or PT-141 or the growth hormone peptides, it's like really jamming on a receptor and turning something on, it kind of just works in the background. Remember the thymolins peptide, it activates genes and like turned on DNA. This one epitalon is from the pineal gland. So we naturally make it. That's been pretty much confirmed. And when you take it, it increases your nighttime melatonin production. So it helps with sleep. Yes. And it increases your daytime

cortisol. Increases your daytime cortisol. Yes. At a certain part of the day, like the beginning of the day. And that's when you want it. You want it. And you don't want it at night. Yes. So epitalalaline. helps restore the circadian architecture that exists. So when it increases your morning cortisol, does that also have an extension effect of therefore decreasing your later in the day cortisol because it's like overloading it at the beginning

what it's supposed to be? So like emerging data suggests that if you have the higher peak of cortisol, you get a better kind of trail off effect. Interesting. The problem is most of us wake up. We don't get bright light. We're kind of indoors.

We have foggy brains. Our cortisol is not high enough. It takes us two, three hours. You have to drink three express. So just to get that cortisol spiked up. Then you stay high cortisol all day, too late into the night, and then you can't get good sleep. And then cycle just perpetuates itself. What we should have is really high cortisol.

You should jump out of bed. You should be pretty charged up. And if you get sun exposure, you get colder in the morning, you work out all these different things that can help set the circadian clock. You'll notice you'll wake up before you're on clock and you're pretty sharp. A lot of times that'll happen now. I'll wake up 10, 15 minutes before. I drink a lot of water in the morning. That's the thing.

Once I do that within about six, seven minutes of waking up, that's when I'm really there. But I haven't, I've been working out at the same time now for a long time since, basically since I made that lifestyle shift three years ago. But I have not used caffeine of any sort. I've not had anything but water before a workout over the last three years. And I've, things have been great, you know. I think there's something to be said for like resetting the circadian rhythm that probably like in a lifestyle where I had still have way too much cortisol in other parts of the day that we got to figure that out like at least like in the morning there's some sort of better system than

I would have had yeah four years ago waking up at fucking 10 a.m. after going all night like you just waking up like shit every single day. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the strategies we can employ for you even specifically like certain light weight wave links you can get before your workout to boost that cortisol spike and boost the performance in the workout. Like we got the sunwalk after after the workout today. Yeah. Yeah. In the winter time you probably get sun before. Actually in the summertime you get sun before in the winter the sun probably comes up like closer to seven. So like it's hard to do that but you can you can like in my hotel room today I had a device that I use it's written rich 480

nanometer lights that oh you have one of those I travel with one. Oh let's go and at night it turns into orange yellowish mode so then I instead of using the hotel lights I just used that light Now, that's the shit that's cool to me. That's the type of optimization shit that's really cool. Because you're restoring biology. Yes. You're not trying to play God and be smarter than your biology. You're like giving the biological inputs that your body needs.

Simple habits. It's not overdoing it. It's in the background. Just make it. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. And like some of these peptides, like the ones I like, I think eventually people are going to get sick of injecting themselves.

They're going to want to go back to like take things naturally. And a lot of these peptides are already derived from organs. Mm. So, like, you know, I used to scoffer, at this idea. There's an idea of organotherapy. Like, if you have a liver problem, take liver, right? And I'd be like, oh, these naturopaths are so weird. But it turns out, like Dr. Kavanaugh's work shows that in the liver, it's not that the liver itself is good for your liver. There's liver peptides, ovagen, lividin in the liver that then can go back and signal certain positive

aspects. You can replenish. You can replenish these peptides. Yeah. So I have a talon for sleep. There's the thymus peptide for the eye. The most impressive one was retinalamine, which is an extract from cow eyes. they ground down retinas from cows injected into humans and they've actually shown you can reverse like retinitis pigmentosa

which is a genetic predisposition to blindness. Whoa. Yeah. So like, not in severe cases. So like Dr. Cavend... But in some cases

they can show that they're making progress in the other doors. So this is an approved drug in Russia and we don't use it here at all in the United States besides some biocakers. What we should be doing

is that we should have an agency in our government looks like hey, what was everyone else doing in the world? Let's take their stuff and then test it and see if it works. Sure. And then if it works, great.

If it doesn't, that would make too much sense, though. Yeah, because we spend millions of dollars on research on stuff that doesn't matter. Like, grasshopper cricket noises at night. Like, there's probably a research grant for that. It's like, dude, let's get people healthier. Gain a function research. We should not have been spending money on gain of function research. That is for sure.

I mean, why is COVID a little bit similar to HIV? I don't know. That might be a little interesting. Maybe the same guy was working on both. Yeah, it's like, why did COVID infect the thymus? What other virus infects the thymuses? Oh, look at that. They all tie together.

I mean, my coming to God moment was when I opened up a study about thymus says, this is a study from the late 80s. And I'm going through the study. I have to look at the references, like who's being referenced. And the first reference in this study was one Anthony Fauci. You just like the last, Chaz Pomeroy and the last scene of fucking usual suspects. Like, yeah, guys are so, Zach. I was like, whoa, is it literally a paper of like 86? And he's the first citation on that study.

I was like, whoa. Yeah, that's kind of dark. Dr. Caventzance ends up in a ditch dead. No one should be talking about thymus isn't like, oh, is that by design? By design. Because there are strategies that you use to theoretically replenish the thymus. Like, first of all, you don't want to age it faster,

which I think what we've done in the last five years. Spirit peptides, different growth hormone strategies that you can use on the thymus. But we should be investing heavily in this because I'm concerned that this generation that grew up with a weaker immune system is going to be very non-resilient, not resilient. not resilient in the next five or ten years oh i agree it's just it's just evolution like it's just the most it makes all the sense in the world because even like you were saying earlier relating it to the medical field the things that not saying it was ever smart to do it but when they could do longer shifts you know

fucking 30 years ago and for some reason they were okay at the end and now slightly shorter shifts like guys are not okay at the end of it there i think that's biology rather than like the human fucking effort if you will. Yeah. I mean, like, all the people that are trying to get through it, like, we'll be taking testosterone, Adderall and ethanol, whatever it is to, like, be able to handle higher workloads. Mm-hmm. So it's like, is that the answer or should we have more?

Yeah, you shouldn't have to take substances to do something that was previously completely possible. Exactly. Like, you can optimize it and change it over time because you have the luxury of doing that. But when it's out of necessity, because it's like, wow, humans can't do what they used to do. That should be a fear. Exactly. What do you think the biggest lies? you've seen about peptides going around are.

So let's take it from both perspectives, from the anti-peptide and the pro-peptide crowd. The pro-peptide crowd says these are natural and therefore there's no side effects. Like your body just makes them. So it's natural. Your body makes insulin. If I gave you the wrong ghost of insulin,

you'll be dead. That's 100% kill shot. So no, just because their natural doesn't mean, testosterone is natural. You make testosterone, ston your blood right now. If I inject you a lot of testosterone, you're going to change. Just because natural doesn't mean it's safe and effective.

And especially not safe necessarily. It could be effective, but the safeness depends on when, where, and why. Right. Otherwise, there's like no human data. So what's happened is, for example, like PPC 157, there's no good human studies, randomized control trials. In the weird spot, we're in, since 2017,

there's been millions of doses of BPC 157 prescribed by doctors to patients through compound pharmacies. Compound pharmacies, it's not your Walgreens and your right aid and these guys. These are pharmacies that are specialty pharmacies that make certain compounds for the demand of the patient. Right. So millions of doses have been administered, and we haven't seen this crazy signal of harm.

Does it work? We don't know. Could it take more time to see that. Could be take more time. Yeah. The same with any drug, though. That's why I'm like, and if we're going to use any compound, we should be very confident that the benefits really make sense.

So people are like, I'm just trying out this peptide this month. I'm like, throw, what are you doing? Like, take it easy. Let's be smart about this. We should be trying to restore biology where we can. and especially because now younger guys they want to jump on test, GH, baptides,

yeah, people really young are talking about this whole, like, I don't even know how it works, but like replacing the testosterone, you got to go get injections and stuff, right? Yeah, creams, injections, the pills. There's people that are like 20 years old talking about this. What the fuck are you doing? Yeah, yeah, I did a podcast with my friend, Santa Cruz.

I'm like, bro, you should be, you're 20 years old, you should have peak levels right now. Why don't you have peak levels is the bigger question instead of trying to replace them. I think people don't have sufficient puberty. That's my... They don't have sufficient what? Puberties.

Like their peak of their puberty wasn't sufficient enough to drive masculization. Right. They're in front of blue lights all day. They're gooning until 3 a.m. They're not eating good foods. They're not competing.

Like young guys were playing football and wrestling and they're competing with other men. So if you look at like 1980s football team... Yeah, dude, 100% from high school from 1980, from 2025. It's like, whoa. That's a man.

It's like, what the fuck happened here? Exactly. So something's wrong. Something's wrong. And the problem is like, no one's sounding the alarm, Like, and your chronology, like, no, levels aren't lower. I'm like, bro, just look at the, look at like, yeah.

My gripe with doctors is like, I'm not going to suspend what my eyes see just because there isn't a study yet that proves that. Like, I can examine the world and look what's going on. Yeah, it's like behavioral finance. Exactly. Same thing. I'm not saying it's the truth 100%. We have to test my hypothesis.

For sure. But I can make hypotheses. Be like, that's weird. Let's look at that. Yes. And we're going to find this out 20 years later. It's like, oh, it was the microplastics or it was the blue light or was the junk food or whatever it was, guys aren't developing right.

And fertility rates are lower Like all these things are happening It could be starting from before conception even Like when the mom and dad aren't healthy enough It could happen during There's been studies where like microplastic exposure to a pregnant lady Causes the anal scruital distance to decrease Yeah that yeah what's that lady's name

Seanah I have her book It's really good She's been on Danny's show a couple times Danny Jones And I think she's been on Rogan once or twice too Sean Swan Swains Something like that Yeah

Yeah, I read her book. Shanna Swan. Yeah, her book's all about that. And it's not to be funny. Like, it's legit. Like the, the measurement of the taint is decreasing at a rapid rate across generation. Guys have longer taints than girls. Yeah.

So this is a problem. And the weird part is as we break the separation between day and night, we break the separation between male and female. What I mean is girls are starting to get PCOS in these conditions where they're making more testosterone and antigens and they're becoming more masculine. And guys are making less testosterone, more estrogen, becoming more feminized. That feels like such a fucking plan, dude. I'm sorry.

My head goes there. It's like you see all these things happening. You see all the inputs that you are. You just described a bunch of them. Now fucking every male, including me and you apparently have microplastics in our balls. That wasn't a thing 60 years ago. And it's such a litany of things that you have to wonder if there's some sort of weird dystopian fucking plan at the top to change.

this. It's even psychological warfare. You're making women and men hate each other online. Are you team Lindsay or are you team fucking don't kill your kids? Like, that's where we're at now. They make us fight over this. Yep. And it's by design. It's very monetarily good for them. But more important, like, people ask me, like, what's your favorite study

you've read? Like, one of the most important studies I read in 2025 was circadian photo reception influences loss aversion. Sounds just like whatever. Okay. Circadian photo reception influences loss aversion. Which sounds like what the hell is this guy talking about. What they did was they took two groups of people, one in a group in a blue light-enrich room, one group in a regular room.

The group that was more blue-light enrichment was more likely to keep gambling. Oh, wow. So circadian photoreception influences loss ofversion. Okay. What's just saying is like when your circadian photoreception is altered, you're more likely to gamble, essentially. Gambling behavior, I'm reading the abstract, is persistent and growing societal problem. An unexplored factor that may encourage gambling behavior is the impact of circadian photore. reception on cognitive processes underlying the behavior.

By the way, where do people gamble these days? Exactly. Yeah. We investigated the influence of circadian photo reception on loss of virgin gambling by altering the blue content of light while maintaining the same visual brightness. Holy shit. 15 participants 18 to 27 years completed an economic decision-making task under blue enriched and blue depleted light of equivalent visual brightness on separate occasions in a

randomized order. The task required participants to choose between taking a risky gamble of a positive and negative outcome or less risky guaranteed outcome. Hierarchical Bayesian modeling was conducted to drive individual parameter estimates for loss aversion and trial by trial performance was analyzed using linear mixed models. The findings demonstrated the individuals were significantly, used the word significantly, less loss averse under blue and rich light compared to blue depleted light. Whoa.

So that's the Calci uses model. That's all their models. It's like, hey, you're under blue light all day. You're more likely to keep gambling. I got to say this man So there was You know I've been really undercapitalized

With brand deals on the show Which some of that's my fault and stuff But like we've been trying to do more Over the last couple years And there were a handful of ads we did With like two or three With Draft Kings And then a handful over

Mostly a one year period With prize picks And I don't have that gene Whatever that is that wants to make you go bet $5 on where the dog's gonna take a shit Yeah But you know I didn't really think about it

a ton. And then I thought about, like, friends I know who have that gene, maybe because of things like this, by the way, you know, news alert there. Yep. Where they have to do it. And I've seen people get so lost in it. And I thought to myself, I was like, do I want to read an ad that then is going to activate the crackhead in someone to take out their crack dealer right here and fucking gamble? Fuck that. And we very publicly. split with gambling ads like back in April or May. Good for you guys. And like we won't fucking do it.

We won't touch Polymark or we won't touch any of this stuff. Again, though, this is another thing I'm pointing to that it's like if you wanted to fucking drive the population in on itself, make a bunch of young people addicted to shit like this so that they're losing their ass. They're getting depressed. They're high cortisol all the time. They're not fucking out there dating and procreating and shit. Like it just feels that way.

Yeah. No, and then, I mean, you see, you see Dr. Jack Cruz on Danny Jones' podcast? Of course, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was a good one. Hey, he goes into the story about this. Like, apparently, according to Dr. Cruz, it starts with the mafia bosses in Vegas.

They set up the Vegas casinos to be blue light enriched, no windows, strippers, alcohol. Take your money. Wow. So, like, the problem is, like, if you just restore a lot of these biological processes, you wouldn't need all these peptides. You wouldn't be obese in the first place because you're just,

like, if it influences loss of version when it comes to gambling. What does it do when you're like choosing what food you're going to eat? 100%. So people are like, oh, it's their choice. Like their fact because their choice, like their choices have been changed by artificial means. And some people are more sensitive or less sensitive.

Like there's a gene on that photoreceptor that they're talking about that can predict if someone can get sad, the seasonal effective disorder. And those people are more likely to respond to bright light therapy lamps. And they apparently, in my practice, responded very well to epital on. Wow. So you can bring on peptides, orally injectable, whatever it is, as a resupport. to bring somebody back to where they need to be. I think we've gone into this like, you know, humanism, next generation thing,

anti-God world. We're like, hey, let's be smarter than God and evolution. Push evolution forward. Right. Which I don't like that. I'm all for innovation. Like if we can restore people's function, improve people's lives, that is great. I don't think we need to be so anti.

Yeah, I hope people listen to you on full podcasts like this and get context because it's really useful because if people just looked at you on the surface they might put you in a box or something or say you're trying to do more of this i i find that the way you're looking at this is is with the appropriate combination of excitement and caution and also trying to diagnose things that we're ignoring as well right and that's i i hope you keep that too because that's that's definitely much needed like in the medical space yeah and i mean like i like to break things into like Like there's treating a problem is one thing. Restoring functions another thing.

And then maximizing function is a third thing. And then if you confuse the three, you can get mixed up. So like treating an acute problem, like, hey, you have an infection. We're going to give you thymus and alpha one, which is proving in other countries for that indication as a peptide. That's treating an acute problem. Restoring function, epithelon with broad light therapy with blue eye blockers at night can restore your circadian clock.

Great. Someone comes to me like, hey, I'm an executive. I'm going to make $100 million. And if I don't perform, I'm not, I'm going to lose all this money. Like, I need testosterone. I need the best peptide stack. I know how to help them maximize, right? And I'm going to tell, hey, there's going to be a tradeoff to what you're going to do.

But also without, you're thinking about minus the tradeoff, not over doing it with them. Doing it safely, doing it carefully, make sure they're monitoring, checking their blood work, make sure that they're in the right spot. And then most of these guys, they come in with low testosterone anyways from stress and the lifestyle they're living. It's like, hey, some testosterone prescribed at the right time to the right person can life-changing, marriage-saving, in many cases. It could also cause divorces sometimes because if you take two patients,

this is not studied, this is just my observations, one of them goes on home replacement and the spouse doesn't. You get a discordance in their libido and their affect and their mood. Like a lady will bring her husband into clinic because she's on hormones, she feels great. And her husband isn't. She's like, fix my husband or else things aren't going to be good. She's like, I ain't getting to dig down.

Let's go. favorite patient is like the lady that's 55, she's metapausal, we're putting her on some estrogen progesterone, a little bit of testosterone, she gets her life back. It's very therapeutic. Wow. And then she's like, hey, put my husband all the same stuff. But the point is, you can do maximization, but I think you should build that on a good foundation first. Like, you should be restored, you should be vital. You should be doing the diet, exercise, sleep, stress management, all the basics. So you're looking at that stuff first, trying to get that in order and then where you can supplement with it, where it, where it's medically.

makes sense, then you explore that. And then go back to the GLP-WONs, like use them as training wheels. Like a patient comes on, they get on the GLP-WONs. We help them change their relationship with food, get better sleep, stress management, change their life. They got some momentum going with the GL-B-1. You can slowly pull that off. Now, like every other doctor in existence, whenever, as far as I know,

please correct me if you're wrong here, whenever you are prescribing things, like there's always, there is a monetary incentive that's attached to it because you get a kickback on the drug. So it's no different with like a GLP1 and stuff like that. It's worse. It's worse. So like if I'm prescribing you, I don't know, an antibiotic, let's say you called me like, hey, I got a foot fungus or a foot infection, I got a pus, I needed an antibiotic.

I'm not going to get a kickback directly from prescribing you that antibiotic. I might bill you for the visit. Okay. But I'm not going to get a kickback from the antibiotic company for that. And an antibiotic company might be funding my medical school, funding the American Board of Internal Medicine. There might be some kind of back room deals happening. But directly, no.

If you come to most doctors nowadays, This is why like this longevity, anti-aging medicine world is kind of scammy. If you go to them, you want a vial of PT-141. They buy it from the pharmacy for 100 bucks, 150 bucks. They sell it to you for 500 bucks. So they're making a $400 profits off of you from using the medication. So they're more incentivized. Yeah.

To give you more peptides, more drugs, more therapy. It's like, we tell our patients, like, hey, you pay us for our expertise in our thinking. You're not paying us for the products. We like to give them their products at cost plus, whatever that administrative fee is just to get the product out to them. That's how I'd like to do it. And a lot of times I'm telling patients take them off their protocols.

Because they come to me on nine peptides. I'm like, why are you on this protocol? Like the only reason... Pulling them back. The only person that benefits, the person who prescribed it to you to make more money. Right.

And then they have side effects and all these. Like, well, I had one lady, she was on Tessamorland. Very common peptide. A lot of people listening to this. Tessamorland? Tessimorland. It's a growth hormone.

It makes your brain make more growth hormone. Now, why did she want to be on that? Her growth hormone levels were low. she wanted some more recoveries, better body composition, some more fat loss, better muscle growth, better recovery in the gym, all these things. She was on a crazy dose of it. She comes into my clinic as a transfer from another clinic.

She's 10 pounds overweight from water retention. She thinks she has an autoimmune disease because her hands are getting numb. Yeah. Because of all the water retention. And she's freaking out. And we're sending your labs for autoimmune. I'm like, wait, tell me your medication list again.

And she's like, oh, test them all and 800 micrograms a day plus epiomoral. I'm like, oh, shit. You're taking way too much of this product. We checked her IGF1 levels. They're sky high. And she's having a side effect to the medication. We're like telling you like a self-medication.

So I had to give her another medication LASIC to diure to get the water fluid out of her body. Did it? Yeah. Within three weeks, we got her back to normal. But why would we even put her through that? Right. Be better stewards of medicine. Yeah.

Now that's the, we started to talk about this earlier, but kind of got off at like the Wild West Black Market that peptides are as a whole. You got these people saying. and scroll up on my TikTok and I'll send you a fucking peptide. And probably sending you like, I don't know, baking soda or something. Yeah. Or worse. It could be baking soda.

I mean, I'm more, I call this out like three years ago. I'm like, eventually China's going to put fentanyl in the supply. I don't think it's happened yet. That's what I'm worried about. Like, why is there fentanyl and Adderall that kids are taking? Right. You heard about this? Yeah.

Yeah. Like poor like a 4.0 student kids at a school is taking some Adderall to get better grades and then found dead in their bed because it's because it's unfortunate. There was a kid at my college. It was a couple of years. younger than me who was in a class of me actually who that is exactly what happened to him so horrible so eventually that might happen to so far the pepets supplied not to be like fear mongering that hasn't happened just yet the problem is so let's say how we got here g lp1s came out

everybody got hyped about them doctors weren't that hyped about it at the beginning now more so then there was a shortage they got into the compound pharmacies the compound pharmacies essentially make clones of the glp1 drugs it's not called ozambic anymore it's still the same semi-glutide So the same active ingredient. Okay. They make it, they add some B12 in it. It's like, hey, you need some B12. So now it's combined together.

Why do that to get through patent law? So Zemoglogolide's under patent. But if there's a shortage, you can still compound it to meet the shortage of need. Or if it's meeting a specific doses requirement or compounding of another drug to meet a specific patient need. They would get, they would use that. We'd add some glycine into it. And now the patient's happened. Yeah, they just spice it up a little bit.

So people have made hundreds of millions of dollars from this as well. Compound pharmacies. and telehealth companies. Now, you know when you, because you're a doctor and you're going to prescribe things, are you always confident with where you're getting it from? When we're prescribing it from the FDA-approved regular pharmacy, that's coming from Eli Lalea, Novoranitis,

that's coming from the actual drugs. When we're prescribing to a confine pharmacy, some of them are really good, A-plus, some of them are complete shitholes. How do you know what to look for? They're putting that out their reports on toxicity, on sterility, all these things. And also there's a reputation in the field.

So then why does this get worse? Then people started selling a research grade. Now, research grade has existed for 25, 30 years. What happens is, if you wanted to buy BPC 20 years ago, there was a website online, you could buy it from the... 20 years ago. We'll use this website because it no longer exists. It's called peptide sciences.

It got shut down or voluntarily shut down, let's say, voluntold. Peptile science has probably did around $500 million last year, selling illicit peptides. How did they do this? They put on the vial for research use only. And then you go to check out and you say, yes, I am a researcher. I'm not using this for humans or animals. I'm just doing this for cell culture research.

And they can legally ship it to you. You get it and you inject that right into you. That's what it ends up happening. This was a multi-million dollar year. I suspect that we're talking about $10 to $20 billion of research great peptides have been sold over the last 12 months. 10 to 20 billion. Yeah, PEPad scientists did half a billion alone.

There's hundreds of these websites now. This is one thing. And I think about this anytime I see something pop up. But like you've been laying out today really well how this stuff's been around. You know, you were aware of it in 2015 and, you know, you even had your grandma taking a GLP1 in 2005. So it's not like it wasn't here. But the whole this came out of nowhere thing a year ago, I don't even remember the word, Yeah.

Yeah. Roughly maybe, give or take. This year, fucking, you know, you go to a family dinner, your aunts talking about and whatever. And I always go a little bit like, okay, wait a minute when I see something like, it's like NFTs, like came out of nowhere and then suddenly everyone's poor. And everyone who pushed it now is still, it's like, everything's normally. Do you think about that a lot?

Yeah, I do. I'm like, that's why I never expected peptides to blow up. I'm like, no one's going to want to inject themselves with stuff. Right. people less needlephobic. And they're like, hey, if I can lose weight from this injection, what else can I get out of an injection? Yeah.

That's what end up happening. On top of that, it's the affiliate game. Yeah. Like, you can make way more money than the doctor telling you not to take peptides if you were an affiliate on TikTok selling peptides. That's right. And you don't even have to own a peptide company. You can make 30 to 40 racks a month affiliating peptides on TikTok to soccer moms.

I wonder if some of this is in a totally different way, obviously, but we'll end up. We'll be seeing documentaries like we see on the opiate crisis now with things like this. You believe we will. I think we will. Not to the extent

because opiates are just strong medications. Right. It's a different thing. It's a different thing. And peptide, there's all a therapeutic benefits that come out of them potentially for certain problems.

Like, I told the story on the Hebrew podcast, I tore my tricept, working out with some body bills like Larry Wheels and my friend Adam. It was purple from here to here. I heard the pop. When was this?

This was October of 2025, so almost a year. ago. You tore your whole tricep? A grade two tear. Jesus. So there's still a little bit of attachment, but I could feel the divot where it was missing. I put BBC 157, took some secretagogues, into the thing.

How much we talking? I was taking 5 to 10 milligrams a day of BBC 157. So that's like a lot. Hefty dose, yeah. People take like a milligram a day. But I was like, I was like, I experiment. I like that you're a doctor experimenting on yourself. I'm like, hey, I don't have the time to get surgery right now.

I need this fixed. I'm like, if this is going to work, it's going to work for. me otherwise we're going to see what happens I go to a potlock later that day and like hey is your tricep hanging off like people my friends said this and they're and then I'm like yeah it is I like it's probably getting any surgery this sucks whatever the next day purple from from edge to edge um I put bpc in it for a couple times over the day and then I'm like I'm like oh it's getting better at the time I'm getting PT for my ACL so too many injuries be careful how you left I'm an idiot when it comes to the gym uh doing jitzu mutine all these things but um my PT guy's like oh your triceps like

getting better pretty quick. Like he quoted me three to four months for a grade two tear three weeks I was back in. That's even seems quick. Three to four months for a grade two tear. Yeah, a grade three tear. A great three tear. A peptide is not going to magically heal a grade three tear. Right. So grade two is when it's not completely ripped off. But it's like there's a nice rip in there. Yeah. Grade one is like a strain. Yeah. Or sprain, depending on what we're talking about. It's a nasty injury. Yeah, it's a nasty injury. It's a very freak injury. Like it happened because it's just the loads we were using. Might because the my stat mutation. The muscle belly is bigger than the tendon can handle.

Right. So anyways, I put the BBC in there. And a few weeks later, I'm back to normal. I never had surgery. My tricep is intact. So I'm like, yo, that's pretty cool. So if that was true, like, I'm so skeptical myself. I'm like, that's an insane placebo effect, though, if it's a placebo effect.

I mean, maybe not even placebo. Maybe I'm just a good healer, right? I have great genes for healing. You get them, gangus con. Yeah, there you go, right? So I don't know, maybe. Did I say that politically correct? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. That's nuts though. So you're putting 5 to 10 milligrams in there? Yeah. So here's the cool thing.

If that works, I have a million use cases in the ICU for BBC 157 for a patient that's coming in. Because BBC was developing gas gas juices, the main effect it was studied for was for ulcerative colitis. So you were using that in the ICU? No, no. I'm saying I would love if this became an FDA-approved drug to be able to give a patient an infusion of BPC.

I was real confused from my... No, no, no, no, no. Hold on a minute. I wish. Fairyland. Not real world. Not allowed. If I used that in ICU, they would revoke my hospital privilege of just probably take away my license.

Yeah. Right? So that's the reality of that world. But if it works, if this story that I had, if that was really from BPC-157, then we needed to get this in the hands of military operators, all the old ladies that fall and slip and tear something. Like, it could dramatically change things. So it's not about taking it forever. It's about taking how can you take this as a course with an injury.

And then you hope it doesn't get like. pass through in a way such that it goes behind the, you know, the great wall, so to speak here. Yep. And they suddenly spike the price 40,000 fucking percent so that people can't access it. I, you know. Yep, exactly. That's what's going to happen. My head goes there with that.

I mean, like my favorite peptides probably penilion. Penelion. It's a Russian peptide derived from cow brains. I think there might be some of that in there. I don't know what they sent you. I don't know what they sent me either. That's BBC 157. Which one were you snorting, Dief?

This one? Right here. Pineleon's cool. I took some last night. Pinelion is a brain performance peptide. It increases brain energetic potential. Oh, let's go. So you'll get very vivid dreams out of it. Okay.

But like no brain fog in the morning. The more the increase in dream state, the more that seems to be baseline dysfunction in brain metabolism. Wow. So I have a guy on Twitter that's tagging me every day. I have bipolar disorder. I've been taking penilion. This is not medical advice.

It's not an approved indication for bipolar disorder. He's like, I got my brain waves measured before and after, and my brain waves are more conducive to positive outcomes. Whoa. Yes. And I don't even know what bipolar patients have brainwaves. Like, I'm not a psychiatrist. It's not my specialty. But that's fascinating. It's a very, it's a three amino acid peptide. It's naturally fat. Like if you were ate to eat organ meats, like you eat cow brains, which people traditionally ate all the organs before our modern McDonald's system. You only ate the muscle meat. People ate all the organs. You would get some of these peptides naturally. And the Russians have studied these peptides on humans.

and they actually works on producing a better brain function. So like jet lag, not jet lag, with pinion, you perform better. Oh, if you could solve shit like that, think of all the people that travel on business all year. I know they get used to it, but like it's not good for the body. Yeah, so like with my high performers, I give them a megadose of meltonin. So like I'm very anti-using melatonin for sleep. Heroes dose, yeah. Yeah, I'm very anti-using melatonin for sleep.

I think you should be able to make your own meltoning. You have to be. Yeah. However, when you're traveling to Dubai and it's 12-hour time shift, there's no natural way to get around that because it's unnatural to be able to get on a plane, fly 30,000 feet above the sky and go there. So anyways, I give them 200, 300, 300 milligrams of melatonin. And if most people buy 5 to 10 milligram or 1 milligram gummies, I'll give them a megadose.

How many mildred? 300. 300. That feels like enough to kill a fucking elephant. So that's the crazy part. The first 5 to 10 milligram saturated receptors already. After that, it's not long, it's not longer working on sleep receptors. It's working on whole body anti-hocan status.

I get some pinealion. They land where they're going and they're just ready to go. Wow. Now what, so you mailed me as we said, the physical ones here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The injectables. Yeah, this is my friend's company, your protocol. So there's a bias, of course, there.

Yep. And these are all different ones. Yeah, there's all a bunch of them of the Russian peptides. Vylon is part of that thymastack. Penelion and epitalon are the most interesting ones there. Penelian, I can't even tell which one's which. So this is, this is Vesuogen, so stem cell activator. What else did he send you?

BPC 157, BPC 157. There's epitalon. Epitallon. Epitallon is the pineal gland circadian rhythm one. What's this one, Villon? Vylon is part of the thymelin peptide. That's the new type. Peneleon is an interesting one.

It can help boost the brain performance. We're talking about. Epitallon's more circadian rhythm. Combined together, you get like... Get deeper sleep and stuff like more of vivid change. So like people notice like three hours of REM on their whoop square. Oh, let's go. Yeah, so it's an interesting thing.

And this is a safer way, if you're going to try this stuff, something like this, not necessarily this brand individual. Yes, yes. I'm just saying in general, it's a safer way to try it with a less effective dose, by the way, doing something orally like this to supplement rather than trying to inject yourself and, you know. So the way to think about it is, I break them down to do they have receptors or versus no receptors? It has a receptor. It's a way more potent of an effect, but also way more risks of side effects.

Got it. The gilipi ones have a clear receptor, so we know what we're activating, what we're tickling. These bioregulated peptides, they don't have a clear receptor, so it's more hazy of what they do. So they're not as potent as the gilipi ones, but they have a restorative effect that seems to be pretty safe. Epitallon has like 40 years of literature on it from the Russian side. If you trust the Russians. From the Russians. If you trust the Russians.

It is good. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the crazy part is like when you take epitalin or oral injectable, whatever it is, your circadian rhythm is, like, you, people are talking about, I get sleepy at 10 p.m. no matter what now. Hmm. So that kind of peptide is interesting to me because I'm helping to restore their biological function rather than trying to supersede.

Oh, that's cool. Now, BPC orally is very interesting. I always travel with some BPC orally. I think one of them's BPC. Might have put that away, but go ahead. Easy way to track it. Yeah, BPC. Go eat some Indian food, some spicy food,

whatever it may be. Pop BPC before it. If you have problems before it with digesting it, it won't happen with BPC. From BPC? Oral BPC is... Oh, don't tempt me. I get more hungover from food than I do alcohol.

Really? Yeah. I'm very curious how you're sponsored. Like when I, you know, when I eat something, it's just kind of loaded with the bad shit or whatever. You know, I was talking about the McDonald's. That's an extreme example. But like, if I go have a huge dinner somewhere,

because I eat the same shit during the weekend, I eat very clean and very well, if I go have a huge, hearty dinner somewhere, the next morning I'm like, ah, all right, let's fucking... Yeah, yeah. Just make it in the gym, get through the first time. 20 minutes, maybe we'll be all right, you know, but.

BBC, like, you know, you get some GI distress, like, BBC will take care of the GI side. Got it. And you'll feel like you have perfect, perfect. This one, this one I'm very, the BPC one's fascinating to me because it feels like, and I might be wrong here, but just in the way it's been described by you and some other people I've talked to a little bit about it. It's the most, what's the word I'm looking for? Kind of, you know what you're getting.

Yeah. Versus the other ones, a little more. basic, a little less worried about what we don't know about it, whereas some other ones seem to be a little more potent attacking something very specific. That's fair to say? Yep, yep. I mean, in BBC, like I talked about us before, but Pavlov, the dog researcher, he would sell gastric juices from dogs. He would harvest gastric juices and dogs and give it to people for dyspepsia. Wow. For people that have like gird and stuff. And it worked. And it worked, supposedly according to his research. So where do you think all this is? What do you mean

in a decade. Like where if we're and I'm asking you to wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So this is total guess work right here. But one decade from now we're talking about peptides and whatever new context we have with them. Yeah. Do you think it's been a good clear net win for people? I think there's going to be a massive adaptation. There's going to be a decrease people like, I'm sick of injections. There's going to be some horror stories that come out with they're fabricated real. People are going to stop using them and they're going to maybe go shift the needle the other way, shift the pendulum the other way, let's say. And then I think we're going to start developing more targeted peptides.

Targeted peptides. Because I think now with AI and stuff, like an AI fixes everything guy. But there's a guy that I saw yesterday on Twitter. He like custom designed a compound using AI for a specific receptor. I was like, whoa, this is going to get crazy. Somebody get Lee Kronin in here. Yeah. It's going to flip out.

Is it anti-AI? It's not just like there's, it's a compliment rather than. Yeah. But in that way, actually, the way you're describing it that is kind of, if it's used correctly, I'm not familiar with how this guy did it, but like if he's using inputs that are already known to then create something, that's kind of interesting. Because you can 3D model a receptor

and you can find us something that binds into it perfectly. That would be interesting. And I think that's going to be targeted peptides. Because like, well, me and my team, we do is we try to find the peptides that will be popular in three, four years. Yeah. Ahead of the curve. And figure out if there's any usefulness in them.

Right. For like unique cases. Now, I am very interested, more importantly than all this stuff, it's like, how can we find a finest peptide step? back the restores thymic function because I'm very worried about where we are, immunity-wise, five to 10 years. Right.

So like, I agree with you on that. I'm very worried about that. And if there's like, if you can take desiccated thymus from cows, like yeah, the problem is it has to be less than six-month-old cows, so it has to be veal. So that's a limitation. Because if you have an old cow, it has an old thymus, it's like we do.

So it's not good. If you could figure out a way to restore people's thymuses, there's been some studies about using oral thymic extracts to do that with some effect. Now you can find a way to restore people's immune function, whether that's strategic, new ways to develop of zinc and new thymic peptides, whatever it may be. It's going to be critical.

I think it's national security risk to not have immune state fixed after the pandemic. Yeah. Online Spiveordesign. I've never heard someone put it that way. I agree, though. It's a huge national security risk. Yeah. That's a great way to bring it home to people because it's like the whole society is vulnerable

to things that maybe would be less vulnerable to. Yeah. If they actually had a good immune system, thinking more in the lens of like bioattacks and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean, like I, I bring this on myself. There's a peptide called thymis and alpha one. It comes from the thymus gone. We naturally make it.

Decreases with age. It's FDA approved in other countries, not in the United States. It's orphan drug status here in the United States. They used to give it for kids that were born without thymuses. I got this peptide. It's available a lot of compound pharmacies, but also the research chemical sites. Procedure with caution. I got this peptide.

I would get sick like once, twice a year in the hospital because there's just so many germs. I would inject this peptide twice a week while I'm on the wards from, say, to November to March. and I wouldn't wear the mask and everybody else. Like it's not even pandemic, it's post-pandemic. All my colleagues are sick every week with something else. They got masks on. They're sick.

I was like, well, whatever, let's see what happens. I took this peptide and I'm, let's say bulletproof, thank God. Not getting sick, very resilient. And I'm like, hmm, this might be an actual nice use case for somebody who's like more prone to getting sick as a defense mechanism. So we're not necessarily trying to biohack and change their biology. We're like, hey, how can you make you more resilient so you can do what you want to do it? to do. So if I'm going to take like a 12-hour flight, I'll take some time itself one to boost my immune system because the bigger problem that no one's really considering after the pandemic is like

I just came from L.A. to the New York area. There's different germs here than exist in L.A. Sure. Yeah. Had I done this in 2019, there'd be less risk than now. Why? Let's say my immune system's a little bit worse, yours is a little bit worse, hers is a little bit worse than it was before. You're holding certain germs and viruses. He is, she is. We all have different germs and viruses. If your immune system is worse, you're holding more germs and viruses than you would otherwise. You're exposing me to higher risk now. Yes. Than I would otherwise.

It's a cascading effect. Yes. So when I see people that are now antisocial, they're depressed, my question is, is that a feature or a bug? What if it's both? Yeah, it could be both. What if their immune system is defending them from meeting other people until they can recover and rejuvenate? Because they can't even tolerate going out.

God, this is going to shit. Like, no matter what, peptides are one little piece of everything, but like medicine as a whole is changing the downstream effects socioculturally are also medical and evolutionary as a result of the pandemic and things like that. Wow. And like obesity is one of the fastest way to shrink thymuses. So everyone is obese has less immune reserve. That's why they get higher cancer rates. The problem is rapid weight loss also shrinks your thymus. And no one's in the study looking at YLP ones. And that would take 30 years to actually see the effects. Like we said, if I took your thymus out today, it would take five to 10 years for me to notice of change. And that's the

scary part for people, but it's good that like you're expressing that as well so people can kind of know what we're dealing with here. But Dr. Bacree, I'd be talking with you for another three hours. We have another podcast right after this. I think you're going to stay for that one. Yeah, for sure. As well. But this is, you're amazing at like your level of knowledge and the scope of all this stuff. So we'll have everything linked down below. You're a great follow on X. We'll put up your Instagram there as well. And then also let's make sure we put up the link to your clinic. So people can check that out. And if there's something for the app you're working on that you

want people to check out. Calibrate. Day. Calibrate. Day. So people can check that out. But we're going to have to do this again, my friend. For sure. All right. Thanks so much for doing it. All right. Everybody else, you know what it is? Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Hey, guys. If you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge huge help. Thank you.